Writing Basics Chat - gerunds

 Subject:  Writing Basics Chat - gerunds

Author:  Writing Basics

Uploaded By:  HOST WRTR SPKLD1

Date:  4/11/2001

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Topic: Gerunds, Infinitives and Participles; verbs that behave like nouns.

Wednesdays

11 p.m. ET (8 p.m. PT), Writers Den

 Writing Basics - Topics for new and experienced writers to develop or review basic writing skills through discussion and practical exercises. Moderated by HOST WRTR LINDA, HOST WRTR RGUGAT, greeted by (alternate) HOST WRTR SPKLD1, mail contact: HOST WRTR STAR. 

Writing Basics Chat Logs Available

The following list is valid as of the upload date, with more entries posted periodically as they become available. If you would care to access a file or topic older than listed here, please see the description for the uploads prior to the date on end of this list for installment information. If you still cannot locate the chat log desired email HOST WRTR SPKLD1 or the current moderators of Writing Basics to make your request.

All files are ASCII text for IBM PC, with carriage return and line feed characters on every line. Gaps in dates are indicated by the dashes, removing those logs of a non-specific topic or having technical difficulties.

03/21/01 - Character Profiles. (Contains Sample Bio Sheet.)

03/14/01 - Naming Characters.

03/07/01 - Selecting a Point of View.

02/28/01 - Journaling to beat writer's block and be more observant.

02/21/01 - Tips on using proper Grammar

02/14/01 - Writing Body Movements.

02/07/01 - Writing and Pacing Conflict

01/31/01 - Gerunds, Infinitives and Participles; verbs that behave like nouns.

01/24/01 - Stepping from Idea to Story

01/17/01 - Verbs and Tense

*01/10/01 - Where to start: Organization.

*Use this date and topic as a link to the older set of uploads.

****disinfected using Virex 6.0****

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: We waiting fer Linda?

Host Wrtr RGugat: waiting for me to find the right file

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: hehehe.. well that helps too...

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: Hi Sue!

ESP Sue Z: hi y'all

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: Linda's clock must be slow again...

Host Wrtr RGugat: let's rumble

Host Wrtr RGugat: We are using protocol so if you have a comment or 

Host Wrtr RGugat: a question, please type ! or ? to the screen and wait 

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: okay... go.

Host Wrtr RGugat: until your name is called.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Tonight I'm going to show you some really amazing 

Host Wrtr RGugat: cats -- verbs who behave like other parts of speech, 

Host Wrtr RGugat: cats that bark.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Can you believe a verb that comes across like a noun?  Or

an adjective? 

Host Wrtr RGugat: Well, hold onto your flat hat.  Tonight, right here, you

will see them all.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Right off the bat, let's make it clear that I'm not 

Host Wrtr RGugat: talking about your garden variety of verb.  I'm talking 

Host Wrtr RGugat: about verbs with special names.  

Host Wrtr RGugat: Did I hear someone ask what those names are?

JsmnStrm: yep.

Host Wrtr RGugat: whew

Host Wrtr RGugat: Okay, I'll introduce them.  I must ask you, however, 

Host Wrtr RGugat: to do me a favor.  These little critters are hams and 

Host Wrtr RGugat: they love applause.  Please welcome:

Host Wrtr RGugat: THE GERUND  (Winning is not the most important 

Host Wrtr RGugat: thing -- it is the only thing)

Host Wrtr RGugat: A verbal noun made from the present particple.

EJensen970: <<<<<applause>>>>>>>

Host Wrtr RGugat: whew

MudderGG: yea!

Host Wrtr RGugat: THE INFINITIVE  (made famous by none less than 

Host Wrtr RGugat: Bill Shakespeare -- to be or not to be -- that is the 

Host Wrtr RGugat: question)

Host Wrtr RGugat: A form usually made by placing "to" before the bare 

Host Wrtr RGugat: form of the verb.

Host Wrtr RGugat: <psst  --  applause>

Kathi Smith 116: <><><><><><>

EJensen970: <<<<<applause>>>>>

JsmnStrm: <<applause>>>>>

Host Wrtr RGugat: whew

MudderGG: yea!

Host Wrtr RGugat: THE PARTICIPLE (Striding in, the participle bends 

Host Wrtr RGugat: nouns like wind bends trees.) 

Host Wrtr RGugat: Formed by adding -ing or -ed to the bare form of a 

Host Wrtr RGugat: verb, a participle is used to modify a noun.

Host Wrtr RGugat: psst

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: I would have said bends like wind bending reeds....

EJensen970: <<<<applause>>>>>

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: trees tend to snap.

Kathi Smith 116: Not willows...

Host Wrtr RGugat: HOST WRTR SPKLD, but you don't have Nebraska winds

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: :-)

Host Wrtr RGugat: :)

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: glad of it too!

Host Wrtr RGugat: The gerund -- give me an example?

Host Wrtr RGugat: JFK standing up to the Russians over the missile crisis

bore fruit.

Host Wrtr RGugat: OK?

Kathi Smith 116: Running is not an option

Host Wrtr RGugat: Kathi Smith, :)

EJensen970: Coming to the end of this test will be wonderful.

MudderGG: Dancing is my favorite form of exercise

Host Wrtr RGugat: EJensen, :)

Host Wrtr RGugat: MudderGG, :)

Host Wrtr RGugat: JFK standing up to the Russians over the missile crisis

bore fruit.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Is this one OK?

Kathi Smith 116: No

Host Wrtr RGugat: Kathi Smith, why not?

Kathi Smith 116: Standing isn't used as a noun, but an adjective?

Host Wrtr RGugat: nope

Kathi Smith 116: Or it's a verb in a clause?

Host Wrtr RGugat: Standing is the noun

Host Wrtr RGugat: Normally a noun or pronoun before a gerund should be

possessive.

Kathi Smith 116: I give...<picking up dunce cap and moving to corner>

Host Wrtr RGugat: examples: (1) My throwing you off the bridge violated

common courtesy.

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: not to mention a few laws. ;-)

Host Wrtr RGugat: (2) SPKLD's staring made me nervous.

Kathi Smith 116: lol

Host Wrtr RGugat: JFK's standing up to the Russians over the missile crisis

bore fruit.

Host Wrtr RGugat: OK !

JsmnStrm: See, when I read it I read it as JFK's instead of JFK,

automatically added the possetion in 

JsmnStrm: the first example..

JsmnStrm: Had to throw that in, sorry to interrupt.

Host Wrtr RGugat: JsmnStrm, thank you  -- works as a reader, but we cannot

be on auto pilot as writers

JsmnStrm: touche'.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Infinitives 

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: That's my problem! I slip into auto-pilot too often!

Host Wrtr RGugat: A form usually made by placing "to" before the bare 

Host Wrtr RGugat: form of the verb.

Host Wrtr RGugat: "to" plus simple or bare verb form.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Please note that in English Grammar, ALL rules are

prefaced with the word "usually."

Host Wrtr RGugat: Infinitives can be used to modify just about any part 

Host Wrtr RGugat: of a sentence, and can also be used as a noun.

Host Wrtr RGugat: examples???

EJensen970: To get the answers to this test will not be easy.

Kathi Smith 116: To run, perchance to keel over

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: lol kathi!

Host Wrtr RGugat: Kathi Smith, no  --  be careful

Host Wrtr RGugat: you have a sentence fragment

JsmnStrm: We love to dance.

Host Wrtr RGugat: JsmnStrm, :)

Kathi Smith 116: Too little, too late, to be useful

Host Wrtr RGugat: To run, perchance to keel over, is part of the course.

MudderGG: To lose weight by starvation is dangerous.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Kathi Smith, another fragment

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: To fly, to fall, to writhe in agony.

Kathi Smith 116: I can never finish anything...

Host Wrtr RGugat: HOST WRTR SPKLD, a frag

JsmnStrm: lol kathi

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: yeah I know.... just following Kathi's lead.

Host Wrtr RGugat: To pick strawberries is sweet. (noun)

Host Wrtr RGugat: Johnny dropped the hammer to lighten his load. (adv)

Host Wrtr RGugat: Lorna was sad to find the house empty. (adj)

Host Wrtr RGugat: make sense???

MudderGG: yea!

ESP Sue Z: Question - does "We go to pick strawberries" fit this?

ESP Sue Z: to pick tells us "where" we go?

Host Wrtr RGugat: ESP Sue Z, yes  --  used as an adverb

Host Wrtr RGugat: modifies "go"

Host Wrtr RGugat: NOTE:  Do not split imfinitives!!!  (If you can prevent

it)

Host Wrtr RGugat: To absent mindedly split an infinitive is to unwittingly

display poor writing skills.

ESP Sue Z: LOL

Host Wrtr RGugat: Adverbs are sneaky little critters who rarely do good.

JsmnStrm: lolol

ESP Sue Z: to boldly go where no man has gone before (couldn't resist)

Host Wrtr RGugat: ESP Sue Z, :)

Host Wrtr RGugat: to go boldly . . . 

JsmnStrm: ****awsome ESP*********

ESP Sue Z: question here

Host Wrtr RGugat: ESP Sue Z, fire away

ESP Sue Z: That line from the lead in to Star Trek is much more powerful

with a split infinitive than 

ESP Sue Z: it is "properly" -- is that an example of breaking a rule because

"it works"

ESP Sue Z: /

Host Wrtr RGugat: Is it really or is it what we have come to be comfortable

with?

ESP Sue Z: (no, I'm not claiming authorship <G>)

Host Wrtr RGugat: And "Usually" is the rule

ESP Sue Z: The cadence works more strongly - putting emphasis on "BOLD-ly"

Host Wrtr RGugat: do what works best

Host Wrtr RGugat: ESP Sue Z, Are you a poet?

ESP Sue Z: I've written some when forced to - I prefer to write poetic prose

Host Wrtr RGugat: I am a poet and I DO agree with your analysis

Host Wrtr RGugat: Poets have far more license than do other writers

ESP Sue Z: ok thx

Host Wrtr RGugat: but even prose writers are permitted to use poetic license

Host Wrtr RGugat: Ain't English great?

ESP Sue Z: yep LOL

Annie313B: ;^(

Host Wrtr RGugat: my example redone>>>

Host Wrtr RGugat: To split an infinitive absent mindedly is to display poor

writing skills unwittingly.

EJensen970: terrific Roger

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: Perhaps the point, the "to boldly go" is not an absent

minded thought.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Choosing -- a gerund or an infinitive???

Host Wrtr RGugat: HOST WRTR SPKLD, :)

ESP Sue Z: (not only correct - but it flows more smoothly)

Host Wrtr RGugat: this part gets fun

MudderGG: I think knowing the rules alows us to break them more beautifully.

Host Wrtr RGugat: MudderGG, Beautifully said

MudderGG: thank you!

Host Wrtr RGugat: Use gerunds as objects of prepositions.

LoverOBooks22: Hi

Host Wrtr RGugat: Use gerunds as objects of prepositions.LoverOBooks, 

LoverOBooks22: What

Host Wrtr RGugat: Hi

LoverOBooks22: oh Hi

Host Wrtr RGugat: By living in Nebraska, I am able to enjoy snow.

Host Wrtr RGugat: note the Gerund

Host Wrtr RGugat: The cost of going to a movie has gone up.

Host Wrtr RGugat: I wish I could nap after eating lunch.

MudderGG: I make my living by enjoying snow in Nebraska.

Host Wrtr RGugat: MudderGG, :)

Host Wrtr RGugat: She walked into the house without removing her muddy

shoes.

Host Wrtr RGugat: try replacing any of those gerunds with an infinitive

Host Wrtr RGugat: She walked into the house without to remove her muddy

shoes.

MudderGG: To enjoy snow, I live in Nebraska.

ESP Sue Z: To go to a movie is more expensive now.

Host Wrtr RGugat: MudderGG, you revised the entire sentence to achieve the

replacement

EJensen970: To walk into the house with  removing muddy shoes is

unthinkable.

EJensen970: without

Host Wrtr RGugat: Note that you all eliminated the preposition to make it

work

ESP Sue Z: The cost to go to a movie has gone up.       better?

Host Wrtr RGugat: ESP Sue Z, The cost of to go to a movie has gone up.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Offends the eye and ear both  --  huh?

EJensen970: right

Host Wrtr RGugat: keep that in mind for later

Kathi Smith 116: But it's not a fragment

ESP Sue Z: I quite agree - just tried to follow the exact sentence -- 

MudderGG: kathi ho ho

Host Wrtr RGugat: Use infinitives after nouns, participles, adjectives, and

most verbs.

Host Wrtr RGugat: I want to find my book.

Host Wrtr RGugat: BUT

Host Wrtr RGugat: some verbs dislike infinitives

Host Wrtr RGugat: Do you enjoy climbing trees?

Host Wrtr RGugat: Want to climb

Host Wrtr RGugat: but

Host Wrtr RGugat: enjoy climbing

Host Wrtr RGugat: I finished reading my lesson in time for supper.

Host Wrtr RGugat: started to read

Host Wrtr RGugat: but

MudderGG: I think reading is fun.

Host Wrtr RGugat: finished reading

MudderGG: I think to read is fun sounds yucky.

Host Wrtr RGugat: MudderGG, yup

Host Wrtr RGugat: and that is your key

Host Wrtr RGugat: Some verbs work with either a gerund or an infinitive

Host Wrtr RGugat: I hate mowing lawns.

Host Wrtr RGugat: I hate to mow lawns.

Kathi Smith 116: To read is to learn

Host Wrtr RGugat: I love to eat.

Host Wrtr RGugat: I love eating.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Generally, your ear will tell you which to use.  If in 

Host Wrtr RGugat: doubt, consult an unabridged grammar text.  If there 

Host Wrtr RGugat: is a rule for differentiating verbs on this basis, it is

an 

Host Wrtr RGugat: obscure rule that I could not locate.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Ain't English fun?

EJensen970: sure is!

Annie313B: no

Host Wrtr RGugat: Anyone ever hear of a dangling participle?

MudderGG: anni hahaha

EJensen970: yes

Host Wrtr RGugat: Who will tell us what that means?

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: no, I have no idea what you're speaking of.

EJensen970: Where did it go to?

Host Wrtr RGugat: Actually, any modifier dangles when its headword is

missing.

ESP Sue Z: headword?

Host Wrtr RGugat: examples:

Host Wrtr RGugat: After sitting at the computer all day, dinner was cold.

Host Wrtr RGugat: "After sitting at the computer all day" is the modifier.  

Host Wrtr RGugat: What does it refer to?

Host Wrtr RGugat: the headword

MudderGG: me

MudderGG: or I

Host Wrtr RGugat: Modifiers require a headword

Host Wrtr RGugat: something to modify

ESP Sue Z: sounds like dinner was sitting at the computer (instead of me)

Host Wrtr RGugat: without a headword, or with the wrong headword, the

modifier "dangles"\

Host Wrtr RGugat: ESP Sue Z, Exactly :)

Host Wrtr RGugat: another example:

Host Wrtr RGugat: After sitting at the computer all day, my wife gave me a

cold dinner.

EJensen970: Who was sitting at the computer??

MudderGG: Then your wife was sitting at the computer

Host Wrtr RGugat: Works, but is it what was intended?

Kathi Smith 116: You're lucky you got dinner at all, ya loafer

MudderGG: hee hee

Host Wrtr RGugat: English is beautiful, but you have to be accurate.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Kathi Smith, :)

Host Wrtr RGugat: After sitting at the computer all day, I ate a cold

dinner.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Annoyed by my sitting at the computer all day, my wife fed

me a cold dinner.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Clear now?

MudderGG: yes

Host Wrtr RGugat: let's do another

MudderGG: okey dokey

Host Wrtr RGugat: After recounting the ballots, George Bush was declared the

winner.

ESP Sue Z: yep, I do believe he probably counted them 

Host Wrtr RGugat: No wonder  --  HE did the recounting  --  ???

Kathi Smith 116: He didn't recount them (actually, didn't even want them

recounted)

Kathi Smith 116: lol

Host Wrtr RGugat: try this one:

Host Wrtr RGugat: corrected ==>

EJensen970: After recounting the ballots, the results showed George Bush the

winner.

MudderGG: After recounting the ballots, the officials declared George Bush

the winner.

Host Wrtr RGugat: After recounting some of the ballots, election officials

declared George Bush the winner.

Kathi Smith 116: After a half-hearted attempt at recounting, officials

declared Bush the winner by default.

Host Wrtr RGugat: That subject will be more fun when it reaches the history

bo0oks

MudderGG: HAHAHA

ESP Sue Z: After all guilty parties are dead... 

MudderGG: I think Kathi is a stand-up comic

Host Wrtr RGugat: More on participles:>>>

Host Wrtr RGugat: present:

Host Wrtr RGugat: The present participle (ing) describes a noun as 

Host Wrtr RGugat: acting.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Shouting, Jake threw his rake.

Host Wrtr RGugat: past:

Host Wrtr RGugat: The past participle (ed) describes a noun as acted 

Host Wrtr RGugat: upon.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Exhausted, I said, "End of the night."

Kathi Smith 116: Nah, I'm a sit-down fragmenter whose participles have been

dangling

MudderGG: haha

Host Wrtr RGugat: perfect:

Host Wrtr RGugat: The perfect participle, (having + past participle) 

Host Wrtr RGugat: describes a noun as having acted -- having 

Host Wrtr RGugat: completed some action.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Having slain the dragon, the prince claimed its nest 

Host Wrtr RGugat: of gold.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Open for questions and SPKLD's advertising

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: no questions?

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: To join our weekly mailing list send an email to HOST WRTR

STAR including the

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: words JOIN WRITING BASICS MEMO in the subject line.

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: The chat logs, when they are available, can be found in

the Writers Libraries

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: area, under the folder of Chat Logs 1 or 2. Look for the

entry Writing Basics

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: Chat for the date you want. /ga

Annie313B: whew 5 pages of notes.. gee thanks..LOL..

Host Wrtr RGugat: Annie313B, welcome

MudderGG: I downloaded all of them, and then couldn't open any of them grrr

HOST WRTR Linda: lol

HOST WRTR Linda: oh no Mudder

MudderGG: oh yess...and then my computer started flashing

Host Wrtr RGugat: MudderGG, you try opening with Word?

MudderGG: I was so mad...don't know how to do that RG

Host Wrtr RGugat: You have word?

MudderGG: I deleted them when my computer flashed.

Kathi Smith 116: thanks, RG, nice job

Kathi Smith 116: Night all

MudderGG: Yes, I do have word.

Host Wrtr RGugat: Night, Kathi

MudderGG: night Kathi

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: You should be able to open the chat logs in any text

editor....

MudderGG: I tried esplorer

MudderGG: explorer

Host Wrtr RGugat: try word

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: oh, well, explorer is not a text editor.

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: try word or word-pad....

MudderGG: Once before when my computer flashed, I lost everything...so was

afraid

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: or even notepad if you have it.. and the file is small.

EJensen970: I like my Power Tools to open chat logs.

MudderGG: I will try ONE this time and see what happens...these sessions are

so helpful

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: you can also use AOL itself to open the files, but AOL

will say "this file may not be

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: supported, do you want to try to open it anyway?"

EJensen970: Thx Roger, Star and L. Great class, Roger.

Host Wrtr RGugat: HOST WRTR SPKLD, or it will say the file is too big

MudderGG: I will try to read them while still signed on to AOL next

time...before I put them on my

MudderGG: desktop,

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: oh yeah? does it have the 64K/32K limit? that's icky...

Host Wrtr RGugat: EJensen, I am Roy, btw

MudderGG: I want to read them all.

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: use word...

EJensen970: sorry, Roy.

Host Wrtr RGugat: HOST WRTR SPKLD, no  --  has its own much smaller limit

MudderGG: Okay...SPK...will try

ESP Sue Z: Thx Roy - G'nite all

MudderGG: I am not very technical

Host Wrtr RGugat: ESP Sue Z, G'Night

HOST WRTR Linda: Goodnight all.

MudderGG: Night Linda

EJensen970: Nite and thx.

Host Wrtr RGugat: G'Night Linda

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: night all!

HOST WRTR SPKLD1: :::LOGOFF:::