Strata StudioPro Message Board Archive
Subject: Strata StudioPro Msg Brd Archive
Author: Various
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Date: 5/16/1997
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Archive of messages posted in the Macintosh Graphic Arts Forum's 3D SIG's Business of 3D message board. All posts prior to 3/97
--------------------------------------------
Macintosh Graphics Forum Go Keyword MGR
Checked with Disinfectant 3.6 released by mw
Subj: Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-12 16:22:08 EDT
From: AFC John
Posted on: America Online
This thread has been moved over from the SoftImage folder. It basically deals
with whether M.Patrito did in fact model the Sinkha images in SSP or another
program. Here are some relevant posts (reposted), so if you know the truth,
let us know too!
________________________________________
Subj: Re: Alias, SI, Etc.
Date: 96-05-12 04:10:36 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>Actually, you're wrong about that. The images they show are NOT "all
Strata". Most of the really cool images you see from Strata were modeled
somewhere else and imported via DXF into Strata for rendering. ***For
example, almost all of Patrito's stuff (Sinka) was not modeled in Strata, it
was just rendered there.***<<<
I don't know how these rumours always get started, bad news for you Crawfish!
The following tools were used exclusively in creating Sinkha:
Strata StudioPro
Strata MediaPaint
Adobe PhotoShop
MacroMedia DIRECTOR, not any of their modellers.
QuarkXPress, (Used for assembly on the printed version of the book.)
Sources:
The Making of Sinkha
Mojave Publishing, 1995-96
Virtual Views, 1993-96
>>>***For example, almost all of Patrito's stuff (Sinka) was not modeled in
Strata, it was just rendered there.***<<<
Of all projects released currently, Sinkha was modelled and rendered
exclusively in Strata! Marco is currently working on, "Escape from
Thallisar", once again done with SSP and this time using QTVR Technology.
This info comes directly from Marco Patrito and his team and is published in
the book that they wrote themselves.
I don't know where you got your info, but I have their book right here in my
lap.
Erik D.
_________________________________________
Subj: Re: Alias, SI, Etc.
Date: 96-05-12 12:13:47 EDT
From: ACrawfish
Posted on: America Online
Erik:
I worked at Strata during 1993 and, when those Sinka images started coming
in, discussions were held re. why Marco was NOT using Strata for his
modeling. I don't have to look at a book to know how it was done, I was
there. If they are revising history for whatever purpose, fine by me. Doesn't
change what happened. It is interesting to note that it is Strata themselves
who are publishing Sinka.
_______________________________
AFC John
3DSIG/MGR
Subj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-12 20:31:54 EDT
From: Macromed3
Posted on: America Online
Issue's similar to the one with Myst and MacroModel. I don't care myself,
just two structurally similar situations.
Regards,
John Dowdell
Macromedia Tech Support
Subj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-13 18:40:31 EDT
From: StrataTek2
Posted on: America Online
John I have been working at Strata for three years and your name hasn't been
on any directories arround here. Your on line information states Quoting
you for 1993"John Goodman
(AFC John)
From 1990 to 1993 he was art director and animator at Golan Productions,
Chicago, supervising animation production and editing for commercial and
corporate broadcast. From 1992 to 1995 John was a freelance animator and
designer in Chicago, working with clients including Cartoon Network/Turner
Television, " CaughtSubj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-13 19:09:47 EDT
From: Sweaz
Posted on: America Online
The way I read it, it was this ACrawfish who claimed to work for Strata, not
ol' AFC John, who was merely carrying the message over from the SGI forum
(?).
BTW... are people claiming that it is not possible to do this kind of
modeling in StudioPro? I would be careful making a statement like that. Subj:
Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-13 20:24:29 EDT
From: Bugs123456
Posted on: America Online
<<<The way I read it, it was this ACrawfish who claimed to work for Strata,
not ol' AFC John, who was merely carrying the message over from the SGI forum
(?).>>>
Hmmm....I read it the same way...unless AFC john goes by the name of
Acrawfish? See what happens when you try to do something nice John?Subj:
Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-13 22:06:47 EDT
From: AFC Zoot
Posted on: America Online
<The way I read it, it was this ACrawfish who claimed to work for Strata, not
ol' AFC John, who was merely carrying the message over from the SGI forum
(?).>
I totally agree, John never said that. You should probably cut back on the
caffeine, your alittle tense.
If you dispute the post, please post Info that supports your position. Thats
all that was asked for anyway.
<This thread has been moved over from the SoftImage folder. It basically
deals with whether M.Patrito did in fact model the Sinkha images in SSP or
another program. Here are some relevant posts (reposted), so if you know the
truth, let us know too!>
BTW what did you catch? Everything you said about John were true, I know ,
I've known John since he was at Golan........and what do you think you caught
him at.
True he doesn't work at Strata.......But are you saying he hasn't
accomplished anything?
Btw . Johns working for Rythm & Hues, what does that say?
Z Subj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-13 23:19:00 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
This was obviouosly a misunderstanding. The individual who claimed to have
worked for Strata was ACrawfish. John carried the thread over to the Strata
StudioPro Forum from the Soft Image Forum. It's easy to figure out how the
mix-up occured.
For the record: ACrawfish has stated that Sinkha was not modeled in SSP when
in fact it was all done in SSP,
anyway back to the issue,,,
Why did ACrawfish deduce that Sinkha, a wonderful 3D work, was not done with
Strata?
Did ACrawfish really work for Strata in 93?
Theres no profile for ACrawfish and we would like to know why. At this point
all we can do is wait for ACrawfish to reveal himself and his source of info.
Calling all Crawfishes to the podium!Subj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-14 02:34:25 EDT
From: Gatzz
Posted on: America Online
While I have never worked at Strata...
I remember the post form way back, I believe they where those golden days of
Ron Woodland manning Strata online. The crux of the response to queries about
the SSP box was that the original modeling was done in Sculpt and Super 3D.
There were also references to PhotoShop retouching, directed primarily at the
lensflare on the front of the box. I realize this is only anecdotal
"evidence" but it might account for some of the conflicting stories floating
around....Subj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-14 02:39:27 EDT
From: CD3D
Posted on: America Online
>>>For the record: ACrawfish has stated that Sinkha was not modeled in SSP
when in fact it was all done in SSP,
anyway back to the issue,,, <<<
Can you really call this a fact if you are just going by information in the
book? The publisher might be considered to be a little biased. I'd like to
hear from someone who REALLY knows what the facts are, someone who was
standing there looking over Marco's shoulder for instance.
I have read a lot of posts on this issue which disagree with each other. I
am one of the people who finds it hard to believe that the forms I have seen
were modeled entirely in V3D and SSP, although I would not call it impossible
by any means. Just extremely difficult. I also believe there was a whole
lot of digital painting going on there as well.
ClydeSubj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-14 03:38:27 EDT
From: APMODELER
Posted on: America Online
ErikTek's idea of _all Strata_ (for his Warner Bros. project begun a year ago
and expected to continue thru 96) is DXF imports of laser scanned sculpted
models - which are _fine-tuned_ in Studio Pro. (source: MicroPublishing
News April 96).
Why yes, they were _modeled in Strata_
Some people just need to be pinned down with explicit qualifiers to their
claims, else we're deluged with their galling misrepresentation.
don't bother flaming me, I'm back out of this
JRSubj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-14 04:01:29 EDT
From: AFC John
Posted on: America Online
Thanks all, for helping clear up the Strata issue.
Obviously it was just a mix-up, I was not claiming to have worked for Strata
in any capacity. I was just reposting some stuff from another folder in
3DSIG, and as it was pointed out mix-ups like that can happen easily enough.
No harm done, but thanks for the support. =]
AFC John
3DSIG/MGR
http://www.rhythm.com/~goodman/index.htmlSubj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-14 05:22:38 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>DXF imports of laser scanned sculpted models - which are _fine-tuned_ in
Studio Pro. (source: MicroPublishing News April 96).<<<
Yes, of all the Digital modelling I have done by hand in the past 9 years, my
Looney Tunes characters do in fact start out by being Digitized. This was
also pointed out in (MacWeek Feb 96), nothing to hide. Theres a reason for
this. I hope I've qualified for the audition, ;-)
Ironically enough, Marco Patrito is prejudiced against digitizing. That
avenue wont work, he does all of his work by hand. It's amazing how some
people are trying to deprive Strata of the credit for Sinkha. Secrets of the
Luxor was also done exclusively with Strata SSP and Media Paint. I can't
wait to see the rumours for that one. Before any of these postings, before
any of these SIG's, there was Photoshop. Everything goes through Photoshop
sooner or later.
Erik D.
Day 2, still no sign of the Crawfish, come out wherever you are.Subj:
Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-14 05:29:52 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>Can you really call this a fact if you are just going by information in
the book? The publisher might be considered to be a little biased. I'd like
to hear from someone who REALLY knows what the facts are, someone who was
standing there looking over Marco's shoulder for instance.<<<
Virtual Views was the original publisher, 1993-96. They had their hands on
this before Mojave. Why don't you querie them if you want.Subj: Re:Sinkha:
modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-14 08:33:58 EDT
From: Sculpt Dev
Posted on: America Online
I know I'm running the risk of seeming spiteful, but I'm more interested in
this thread as a detective story. I went searching for the original Strata
posts about Sculpt and Super 3D and could only find references to the post
(other people talking about it in other forums). But here are some posts I
did find (edited to focus on the Sinkha parts). Apparently some of the images
were done in SSP, while others relied on other modelers and on Photoshop for
assembly and retouching.
___________
Subj: Message from Kyle Maxwell 93-06-15 19:11:31 EST
From: Strata3d
[promotional stuff removed]
In answer to some of the questions: Marko Patrito's "Sinka" image was
created completely in early versions of StudioPro. Actually, the "Sinka"
image was one of the milder examples of his work, some of his images are so
unbelievable that we're purposely holding them back until StudioPro ships.
Even WE didn't believe some of his other images; we made him send in the
model files to prove that they were completely Strata!
[promotional stuff removed]
Subj: Marko Patrito 93-08-12 16:12:41 EST
From: Strata3d
MaxEffex,
In his own words, from a letter send in with images... "The methods I use to
obtain a final image is very complex, and it's not assimilble with a simple
"model and render".
"In the old nameless man, an important rule is covered by the bump, traced
with great care. Once finished the rendering, I retouch it with Photoshop,
sometimes erasing junction lines with a little blurring, edges rounding (is
excellent operating in on the alpha channel generated by StrataVision).
In other images the work with PhotoShop is more heavy, and consists in
assembling of various parts (via alpha channel: You made great job with this
function!)) on a background ever generated by StrataVision, or drawing not
moldable particulars as hairs flowing in the wind ( concerning Hylejn the
front hairs are a mapping, and the hairs on the shoulders have been drawn in
a second time) water drop, light glows, soft shadows..."
Hylejn is Marco Patrito's young girl image sent out with our mailing . The
wording in the flyer is 'Changing the face of 3-D design and animation...'
Marco's old man and Hyejn images were both created for the comics story
"Sinkha". They were fully produced on a computer system. He used Super 3D
for characters and smooth surfaces. Mechanical, landscapes and architectural
parts modeling, parts assembly, surface creation and final rendering were
done in StrataVision. PICTs used in mapping were created in PhotoShop, as
well as retouching and paging.
Subj: Re:Sinkha CD
Date: 96-03-22 14:58:07 EDT
From: StrataTek
Posted on: America Online
The Sinka CD is an Interactive Novel that was created by Marco Patrito using
Strata products and other software to create this amazing CD.
[sales stuff removed]
Joseph Ashear
Sculpt 3D Product Manager
Byte by Byte Corporation
Subj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-14 08:36:12 EDT
From: Sculpt Dev
Posted on: America Online
One more message, this time from the Byte by Byte forum. (Hope you don't mind
if I repost it here, Joe!)
________________
Subj: Strata images made w/Sculpt?
Date: 94-12-04 12:15:07 EDT
From: JStratmann
Posted on: America Online
I just read a message in the Stratavision folder that the images shown by
Stratavision, for their Studio Pro product, of a girl was modelled in Sculpt
3d! The rendering was done in Studio Pro but I just couldn't get over the
fact that it was modelled in Sculpt 3D.
In addition, the lens flare on the front of the box of Studio Pro was done in
Photoshop (obviously). But this brings up an important point in my opinion.
When a company shows images created with their product and there is no
mention that a part of it was done in another package - I see this as
misleading.
The best case I can think of is this girl image by Marco Patrito (sp?). The
lens flare thing is no bigge. But with the image of the girl I think it is
material that none of it was modelled in Studio Pro yet it is prominently
displayed on the box with no mention that the model came from Sculpt 3D.
Any thoughts on this?
Joe
_____________ END OF MESSAGE _____________
Note: the Joe who wrote this message is not me.
Joseph Ashear
Sculpt 3D Product Manager
Byte by Byte CorporationSubj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-14 10:22:34 EDT
From: StrataTek2
Posted on: America Online
I pointed out the Wrong person forgive me John. it is Crawfish that I am
disputing that he ever worked here he claimes to know what is going on here
but clearley he doesn't you should see the book being published on how the
shapes were created the lizard in some of the renderings is a skined
object.Subj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-14 12:07:11 EDT
From: ACrawfish
Posted on: America Online
StrataTek2:
Merciful heavens, somebody worked at Strata before you did! How is that
possible? You mean reality isn't purely solipsistic?
I did NOT bash Strata so stop bashing me. I have never claimed to know what
is going on at Strata now, only what happened when I was at Strata. All I
said was that the original Sinka was NOT modeled in Strata. We were told they
were modeled in Sculpt. I said that, at the time the images were first sent
to Strata, we (Ken & Gary Bringhurst, Jim Boyd, Reed Terry, Brett Johnson,
Bruce Wilson, Kyle Maxwell, and me) discussed why Marco didn't use Strata's
modeling. This was obviously so we could try to put in the right modeling
features so he would choose to do the whole piece in Strata.
I am Alan Crawford. I worked at Strata from Jan. thru December 1993. While
there, I wrote the ray/patch intersection code, 2D region tessellator, the
interpolation routines used by Jim Boyd for lofting (which is the basis of
the skinning you mention), a micropolygon-based scanline renderer (that never
got released to my knowledge), etc. Go ask Ken, Gary, Scott Lovell, Jim, or
Brad who I am.
What else have I done? I began in computer graphics in 1976 at the Univ. of
Utah when I was in grad school. From 82 to 86, I wrote CAD/CAM modelers and
simulators in aerospace. From 86 to 91, I worked at Bosch on their rendering
engine and, in collaboration with Alias, to port Alias 2.4.2, 3.0, & 3.1 to
this renderer. During 93, I worked at Strata. I left Strata to be the project
leader for Softimage's modeling team. I continue to do contract work for
Softimage. I developed all the algorithms for their NURBS library and
modeling applications from 1994 continuing to the present. I also have done
(since 1987) and continue to do freelance animation (Alias & Softimage) and
on-site training (Alias).
What is amazing to me is how hyperbolic this is making some people. If a
little reality like "it was modeled somewhere else" causes folks to go
ballistic, I would suggest reading Eric Hoffer's book True Believers and
maybe taking up Zen.Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-14 16:58:36 EDT
From: Bugs123456
Posted on: America Online
::munch, munch, munch.......
slurp, slurp, slurp...............
render, render, render:::Subj:
Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-14 17:37:38 EDT
From: RandyWyan
Posted on: America Online
---->I am ........
Heheheheh.
Go Alan.
RandyWyanSubj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-14 17:46:13 EDT
From: LarryRCUBE
Posted on: America Online
Eee gads....
I've got to ask....What is the value of this discussion?...Are Marco's images
nice..yes..you all seem to agree. One "product tool" or another.....really
now....
Who the f-ck should care.! Unless each of you own stock and expect each of
these tool companies to become the size of Microsoft (they won't) what should
it matter to any of "you" "3d artists" or whatever you want to call
yourselves in a marketing brochure like resume....Marcos images are some of
the few computer 3d rendered based images that due to his craft and design
talent actually become "art".
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO'S OVERHYPED $300-1500-6500.00 dollar tools were
used in their creation,Personally they are a testiment to his TALENT and NOT
to any one companies product.
- Yeah,yeah,yeah...i've used em all,now...mac pc and softimage..all are used
in projects I direct....and after
almost 10 years of this stuff I dont care about this nonsense anymore;).
It aint what you use..it's how you use it...gee, how original;)
Larry Rosenthal
cubeSubj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-14 18:01:06 EDT
From: Kth Lango
Posted on: America Online
It seems as if an apology is due to Alan Crawford. If you can't own up to the
post, then don't light the flame.
Keith
Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-14 21:34:33 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>what should it matter to any of "you" "3d artists" or whatever you want to
call yourselves in a marketing brochure like resume<<<
I think it's safe to say that we all are very passionate about what we do and
the tools we use. Anyone, in my opinion, who thinks he/she is superior, I
put in last place. I've got 9 years under my belt and I still learn
something new everyday. I've been an illustrator since I was 5 years old,
I'm now 31. Why don't you figure out what I call myself.
>>>- Yeah,yeah,yeah...i've used em all,now...mac pc and softimage..all are
used in projects I direct....and after
almost 10 years of this stuff I dont care about this nonsense anymore;).<<<
Fine, then don't worry about the debate, this is an open forum. This is what
goes on in an open forum. I for one want to know about things going on
around here. Crawfish had some very interesting info, it is his right to
post it. It is our right to respond. If you've had your chance over the
past 10 years to discuss these things, great! Then you may disregard what
the rest of us are discussing right now.
>>>It seems as if an apology is due to Alan Crawford.<<<
If Alan feels in any way whatsoever bashed by this debate, I apologize. It's
not my intention to bash anyone, but to find out the truth. I can handle
being proven wrong, I'm also very interested to know the truth is about this
matter. I was informed by a book that the work was done in SSP. Now that
Alan has brought it up, I'm curious.
Popcorn and Dr. Pepper! Next round!!
Erik D.Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-15 00:15:22 EDT
From: AFC John
Posted on: America Online
Thats what I like to see, a civil argument! You guys make me proud. :)
And as Joe said, its been a fascinating "detective" story to hear about all
this.
AFC John
3DSIG/MGR
http://www.rhythm.com/~goodman/index.html
Subj: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where?
Date: 96-05-15 03:52:05 EDT
From: PixelsSD
Posted on: America Online
>>>Day 2, still no sign of the Crawfish, come out wherever you are.<<<
Erik, don't turn into another ignorant jerk. Lord knows we have enough of
them in this world already.
-AndrewSubj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-15 03:56:36 EDT
From: PixelsSD
Posted on: America Online
>>>If a little reality like "it was modeled somewhere else" causes folks to
go ballistic, I would suggest reading Eric Hoffer's book True Believers and
maybe taking up Zen<<<
Well said!
-AndrewSubj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-15 12:50:23 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>Erik, don't turn into another ignorant jerk. Lord knows we have enough of
them in this world already.<<<
Hmmm, I suppose you would prefer me to be a stifled mute? Naw, I don't think
so. I have a right to my opinion. This isn't a one sided argument where a
statement is made without a counter statement. That wouldn't be realistic at
all. Theres alot of unneeded bashing going on in here, I'll agree with that
one. The tool that I rely on being used as the main victim. Naturally I'll
take a stand and defend what I believe in. I'm getting the job done with
SSP. Wait for 2.0, then make your deductions. You could say this is almost
like a religion,
Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-15 13:30:31 EDT
From: Nurbs242
Posted on: America Online
Relax Erik, I dont think he want to see you mute yourself...I think its in
the way and the tone taken in someones responses that makes them look like a
jerk.
And to respond to your last post about SSP doing the job for you,..... that's
great. My point is simply that the job you do and the job others do is
different. WE have found (seems like the majority) that SSP is not really
capable of doing the Job WE do. If it works great for you then what we say
is irrelevant to you and vice versa. We dont walk in your shoes and you
don't walk in our shoes.
- Nurbs242Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-15 13:42:08 EDT
From: StuArtist
Posted on: America Online
>It aint what you use..it's how you use it...gee, how original;)
Larry Rosenthal
cube<
Amen Larry. I admit to a "natural" curiousity about tools one uses, yet I
really do appreciate and agree with your post here. Somewhere in midst of all
this "gee wiz" thinking, we can lose sight of the "Artist" and his true
aesthetic.Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-15 13:44:36 EDT
From: StuArtist
Posted on: America Online
correction: his/her true aesthetic.Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...whe
Date: 96-05-15 15:27:38 EDT
From: LarryRCUBE
Posted on: America Online
Thank you Stu....;)
THAT was my point.:)
BTW Erik...I checked out your bio stuff, You seem to have it happening
dude...cool.
One quick piece of nonsolicited advice from someone who spent a few years as
a "strata" and other MAC 3d.
poster boy in NYC. Our relationship was mutually benefitial....They made
something that as a "self interested" designer I could use to advance my work
and projects... I wanted other designers to "go digital"(-more closer to
religion than any one product I should think.) so I spent NON PAID time
evangalizing these companies products.Today i dont want to and dont have the
time to do this anymore ....when i see something that looks neat i'll let
others know, but god help me if I'll spend any non paid time trying to defend
a companies lack of interest in making a product that I need for what i
do...They arent obliged to make it and neither am i to purchase it....
---THIS IS FUNNY...as im writing this email I JUST RECIEVED a call from Pratt
NYC to ask me if I could teach the basic 3d class this summer that will
feature studio pro as the tool. I had arranged to do it last winter but the
classes were "snowed out". Not sure if i have the time this summer...I'll ask
my old partner Alex S. if he wants to do it.I can only say that if I do do
it, those students are gonna learn about "basic 3D design" and not only one
companies solution in a tool to understand and produce it.
As to the discussion,
These are companies, not prophets..oh "profits"
I still use Studio pro alot, but no longer for anything that will require
complex animation....as a modeler its still good for alot., and does have a
core interface more logical than form z's "modifier type" interface .Thats my
opinion as an interface designer and industrial designer who has spent time
designing everything from consumer kiosks to aviation control systems(look
what happens there if tools dont work-everglades-)
Who should expect a company NOT to make the best "looking" box or promotional
pamplet it can...I'll bet quark express is used for all the text on those
package designs..(let's see it in Stratatype!:)...oh..thats meant as a joke
not a product slur..
All these comments are about the "buisness of design"...thats important to
me, and probably all who check out these folders, the "art of design" seems
to be where the images we're all commenting on exist. As to the "art of
design" I say, smudge,blur,composite,lens flare ON!!!
I think if we treat or tools like tools and our ideas and images as ideas and
images,we'll all be makin cooler stuff:)
Thats all from this buckaroos blabbering mouth,
Larry r.
cubeSubj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-15 22:33:04 EDT
From: PixelsSD
Posted on: America Online
>>>Hmmm, I suppose you would prefer me to be a stifled mute? Naw, I don't
think so. I have a right to my opinion. This isn't a one sided argument
where a statement is made without a counter statement.<<<
No one said don't make a statement, I just said don't be a jerk about it. The
statement you made about 'no sign of Crawfish' was uncalled for. Chill out.
-AndrewSubj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-15 23:39:43 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>No one said don't make a statement, I just said don't be a jerk about it.
The statement you made about 'no sign of Crawfish' was uncalled for. Chill
out.<<<
Andrew, if you scroll back a few you'll notice that this has been going up
and down. I've been pulled into the arena several times on this. I come to
peace with one person and then all of a sudden another person pulls me back
in again. I can't back down down if I wanted to. Think about it, ;-)
As for the Cube, I'm glad to hear that Pratt contacts people such as
yourself. An interesting note for you regarding Pratt. A good freind of
mine just graduated from there last year with a degree in Arts, obviously.
All of his studies were conventional based only. He was one year shy of the
computer age at Pratt and was denied access to the first classes and then all
of them. Here is an awesome artist that can't find work anywhere because he
doesn't know the CGI aspect. No computer knowledge, no job. I think we are
lucky enough to have had an art backround before the computer revolution took
hold of things. In my book that is a close call. I still remember my sketch
teacher back in 83 telling me this computer thing was only going to be a
short lived fad. If you do wind up this year at Pratt, let them know that
they should bring back their alumnists and help them out on this.
Just a thought,
Erik,Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...whe
Date: 96-05-16 00:26:44 EDT
From: LarryRCUBE
Posted on: America Online
About Pratt,
FYI, I'm a Pratt graduate myself...BID 1985.....I actually was one of the
first students in industrial design there to be involved with the future
digital world by taking place in the first classes using Movie byu on a vax
computer...It was horrible by the way, it wasnt untill i was given a copy of
swivel 1.0 on a mac 11 that 3d on a computer made any sense to me as someone
who was interested in the design process and not the computing process. My
current intern is a graduating Pratt cg student this spring. He's I'm afraid
been taken on an expensive ride by Pratt that really makes me question the
state of the design education today. He's quite talented and has been offered
a job at rythm and hues for quite a bit, directly out of school....He has raw
talent but I'm afraid has not been given a fundamental design education due
to an over emphasis on "applications"....reminds me of an art center
education of ten years ago...all marker comp flash, and minimal thinking
required. Obviously, that marker comp skill was only valuable for the first
few years of a designers career and due to the intervention of 3d rendering
in design, not even relevant in the future market of design.He'll
survive,he's smart enough and talented enough.and he can draw and understand
3d objects without the aid of a product more expensive than a pencil.
One other note, when i did spend a few years doing seminars at apple ny
center just about every ex teacher of mine from pratt showed up at one point.
They were all trying to figure out "what s the fastest mac to get and what
software was the best".....I thought it was horrible that they had been
reduced to this nonsense. The fear of digital was upon us..:) I believe that
all these "my program is better than yours" discussions only added to their
anxiety and and their current students misunderstanding of what all these
digital tools could really mean.For an instant replay I suggest you all look
at what VRML(internet3d) means to the 3d design profession. Those who think
of it as "low end' and feel secure in their EI renderings as "professional"
should look again. It's the BIG ONE for 3d.....don't let your tool size get
in the way;).
Pratt today?... I understand that Industrial design(the traditional realm of
3d thinking) and Computer graphics are different departments and students are
forced to "fight" over which tool and time using it.... Sounds pretty silly
to me.I know my current intern has a mac at home and does his projects in
infini d because thats all he can afford for home use. I took him on as an
intern due tothe thinking evident in his sketchbook and a few infini d
renderings. I really didnt care that he wasnt SI and EI savy.Cube is not a
"production house" we're a design and new media group, so my interest wasnt a
cog for our "crank it out" machine. He got to play with SI in my studio and
helped produce a project with me on it. It was his ability to think about
design that made him valuable, not again SI vs. Infini-D vs anything specific
as a tool.
I'm thinking about teaching that class at Pratt NY this summer, god help the
student who just wants to "learn what program is the best" who wanders into
that class;)
LarryR.Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-16 09:31:01 EDT
From: AdobeSmudg
Posted on: America Online
ACrawfish -- obviously a phony name, Crawfishes have no spines, and you've
certainly displayed one here! ; )
What's great about Hoffer is, doesn't (or didn't) he work as a longshoreman
most of the time and only write when he has something to say?
Nicely put. I was confused by the whole thing, it seemed clear to me you were
saying you'd been at Strata awhile back...
MCSubj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-16 09:39:47 EDT
From: AdobeSmudg
Posted on: America Online
>>>>>>Hmmm, I suppose you would prefer me to be a stifled mute? Naw, I don't
think so. I have a right to my opinion. This isn't a one sided argument
where a statement is made without a counter statement.<<<
No one said don't make a statement, I just said don't be a jerk about it. The
statement you made about 'no sign of Crawfish' was uncalled for. Chill out.
-Andrew<<<
Nicely put, Andrew, I'd have thrown up my hands at that point -- Erik, a wise
man once said, "If a man calls you a mule, smile at him. If another man calls
you a mule, punch him in the mouth. If a third man calls you a mule... buy a
saddle."
You keep protesting and missing the point, your post was basically a taunt,
making the argument the whole thing, screw the forum, let's argue, etc.
Andrew is making a reasonable and insistent point which you are refusing to
take.
MCSubj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-16 10:25:42 EDT
From: Sculpt Dev
Posted on: America Online
Woah... when the epithets begin to fly, that's my cue to step aside. I'll be
back when the topic swings away from personal squabbling and back to 3D
graphics (although I'll settle for 2D at this point).
Joseph Ashear
Sculpt 3D Product Manager
Byte by Byte CorporationSubj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-16 12:27:27 EDT
From: ACrawfish
Posted on: America Online
Yes, let's PLEASE put this to rest! The only reason that I mentioned that
some Sinka modeling was done elsewhere was so that folks would not use the
quality of such images as the basis for an attack on people who don't like
some of Strata's tools (see the original thread back in the Softimage folder
if you remain a glutton for punishment). LarryR pointed out that it's the
artist NOT the tools that makes great images great. Amen! Why not discuss
that Sinka represents a whole new area for writing/publishing? That
QuicktimeVR segments are going to be used for Marco's next edition is very
exciting.
As the potentially offended party, I didn't & don't view "the crawfish
issue" as a taunt. My chitinous carapace is sufficient protection that I
don't consider such minor probings to be outrageous slings & arrows. On the
other hand, StrataTek2 basically called me a liar "disputing" my working at
Strata. I certainly am a crusty enough of crustacean to come out with pincers
extended and mandibles clicking away at such potential libel (N.B.,
StrataTek2, potential libel).
Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-16 15:42:57 EDT
From: DarkPrints
Posted on: America Online
I've been following this Sinkha debate from the start and am amazed at all of
the twisting and turnings it has taken.
Initially it was a question of did or didn't SSP create these images (and
they are gorgeous). I think that it was posited with the thought "If someone
else can do it then so can I".
Yes I agree that its the design and thought behind any image that makes it
live, however what if you can't get there from here? Naturally you want to
spend your time wisely and use the best tool for any given job, but who has
enough money to buy every tool? Its very difficult to produce oil paintings
with a 2H pencil. Form usually follows function. This is both good and bad.
If the software or whatever media you choose has a natural inclination toward
your idea... great. If not then you are constrained by what the tool CAN
produce.
Religious ardour or no, why bind your hands by trying to produce images that
can't be had except through some tortuous path?
Ultimately the question becomes, is the truth that this package can produce
these images in a sane and timely manner? If not, then I don't want to use it
nor should it be advertised that this was done solely in SSP when that isn't
the case.
I don't think that we've determined the truth of the matter yet, but I'll
return to see how this comes out.
with bated breath,
DarkPrintsSubj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-16 22:51:08 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>You keep protesting and missing the point, your post was basically a
taunt, making the argument the whole thing, screw the forum, let's argue,
etc.<<<
What is this Adobe? I thought the argument was dissapating. Are you trying
to reignite the argument? I'll buy you a saddle, I want a ride out of this
canyon.
Drop it already!Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-16 22:54:47 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
Come to think of it,,, Larry and I were discussing the issues of CGI
intergrating into Fine Art schools and how it affects some artists. That
doesn't sound like an argument to me. It sounded constructive.
Erik D.Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha: modeled...where
Date: 96-05-17 07:28:41 EDT
From: AdobeSmudg
Posted on: America Online
Let me clarify, and it's the last i'll say: a teasing reference to an
argument is a taunt. Maybe it sounds like an ugly word, but it fits and it's
just means, like a "nyah, nyah nyah, nyah, nyah" kind of thing, and there are
mild ones and ugly ones and I didn't say it was blatant. I didn't say anybody
was a bad person. I just thought Andrew had a point that he wouldn't have
made in the way he did if he didn't feel some care and concern that Erik was
at a juncture where he needed to hear it. Andrew's judgment in these things
is pretty impeccable, he wasn't being heard, so I thought Erik would be
better off if he truly _heard_ that the comment could be perceived as
anticipated enjoyment of conflict. No condemnation involved. And just 'cause
it didn't read that way to some doesn't invalidate the way it can be and is
read by others. If it was so innocuous what was Andrew objecting to? Anyone
ever known him to chastise _anyone_ before?
Dropping it, hope everyone else is done, and, if not, hope they don't need a
response, my thesaurus is hashed. ; - }
Subj: Re: Re:Sinkha:
modeled...where
Date: 96-05-17 07:35:57 EDT
From: AdobeSmudg
Posted on: America Online
Let me get this straight...a crawfish computer contract consultant constantly
constructing characters commercially can completely cushion controversy cause
carapaced chitinously --- cool!
CollenSubj: Re: Re:ccc&ccc
Date: 96-05-17 15:37:06 EDT
From: BKnob97
Posted on: America Online
Ahh!
AdobeSmudge is a skit writer for a Prarie Home Companion!
LOL!!
BrianKSubj: Re: Re:ccc&ccc
Date: 96-05-17 22:51:04 EDT
From: AdobeSmudg
Posted on: America Online
My damn cat just keeps running across the keyboard, sorry folks...
MC Subj: Rivers of Dawn?
Date: 96-05-18 19:28:26 EDT
From: DJ Carson
Posted on: America Online
Does anyone know what it is, and if Strata or Mojave is coming out with this
game?? I just downloaded the JPG's from the Strata Misc. folder.....pretty
impressive!
--DonSubj: Re:Rivers of Dawn?
Date: 96-05-21 18:26:02 EDT
From: StrataTek
Posted on: America Online
Rivers of Dawn is not being published by Strata or Mojave. Those images were
posted to the forum so that the artist (Kenneth Elhardt) could show off his
work and introduce his game (very cool images!!!). If you would like more
specific information concerning it, please contact him at "elhardt" on AOL.
Cory
Strata TechSubj: 3D APP NEEDED
Date: 96-06-01 12:47:34 EDT
From: JRDiDo
Posted on: America Online
KEYWORDS: TEXT TXT 3D 3DMF DXF RIB GRAPHICS GRAPHICCONVERTER CONVERTER
APPLICATION APPL QUICKDRAW 3D COLOR TREES LEAVES FOLIAGE MAC APPLE MACINTOSH
HELP MONEY SHAREWARE FREEWARE SOFTWARE KEYBOARD MOUSE MONITOR ANYTHING SOUND
PICTURES CD MODEM VCR TOOLS UTILITIES EXPAND COMPRESS SWITCHERS WINDOWS CGI
CG QUICKTIME VR VIRTUAL REALITY STUFFIT SOFTIMAGE ELECTRIC IMAGE SOFT IMAGE
ALIAS SPECULAR STRATA INFINI-D STUDIO PRO STRATA3D INTERNET CYBERDOG INTERNET
COMPATIBILITY MAIL FILES *.* * NETSCAPE MICROSOFT DOOM DEVELOPERS ENGINEERS
HELPERS HARD DRIVE DISK 95 96 97 8500 9500 00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 I NEED ANY
POSSIBLE APPLICATION FOR CONVERTING DXF RIB STRATA FORM Z SKETCH 2.0 NEW
FILES FORMATS INTO 3DMF FILES FOR QD3D QTVR
Hello,
I am asking for anyone who can make a utility for changing DXF (as well as
any other formats of 3d objects) into 3dmf files, and maybe even the other
way too.
My recommendations on how it should be done is an exaple set by the
"GraphicConverter v2.4.1" (Availible on AOL) that it is an open converter
program, that can read almost any format, and then change it to another. I
know it's not that simple, (infact, if anyone does set out to do this, and
accomplishes it, they should win a Nobel prize) but I think it'll be a pretty
popular item if anyone does it.
Please send me whatever you got to:
JRDiDo
WWHole
Thank you for hearing me out,
Joe DiDonatoSubj: Re:3D APP NEEDED
Date: 96-06-01 14:24:12 EDT
From: WaltSterdn
Posted on: America Online
Hi Joe;
>>I am asking for anyone who can make a utility for changing DXF (as well as
any other formats of 3d objects) into 3dmf files, and maybe even the other
way too.<<
I don't know if you'll have too much luck with this, as most of the 3D apps
that support Quickdraw 3D can already do this (Infini-D, StrataBlitz+, etc.).
One of the problems in building the converter is that the DXF format is still
pretty open, and if a product that can import DXF actually imports over 90%
of the DXF files out there, it's doing pretty good. With the 3D app of
choice, you can make minor changes to the models before exporting them as
well, something that a straight converter can't do. Moreover, most of the
high-end converters (you might try CadMover from Kandu Software -- Phone:
703-532-0213, Fax: 703-533-0291--I don't know if they've added 3dmf) cost
almost as much as the 3D software.
A more sought-after Mac file converter these days is a 3DS->DXF converter
(though there's rumours floating around the Strata camp about their next
update). Hope this helps a little.
What would really be great is a DXF->Native file translator (kind of a 3D
Streamline) that would take the polygons from a DXF and trace them into 3D
splines.
-- Walt Sterdan
Subj: Re:3D APP NEEDED
Date: 96-06-01 18:27:20 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
For those of you fellow 3DMF lovers out there, theres lots of little apps
popping up all over. Go onto Apples Site or download the 3DMF Optimizer 1.0
APPL. MGR: PD & Shareware.
On the DXF Topic, the Streamlining method mentioned is called, "Decimation".
So far the only available product of this type is on the SGI. It's called,
"CyberSurf". Keep the faith though, all of these little goodies will be
making it to the Mac Platform within the year.
Just a thought,
Erik D.Subj: Re:3D APP NEEDED
Date: 96-06-02 14:31:47 EDT
From: WaltSterdn
Posted on: America Online
Erik D.;
>>On the DXF Topic, the Streamlining method mentioned is called,
"Decimation".
Thanks for the info. It's always nice to know the real names of things.
>>Keep the faith though, all of these little goodies will be making it to the
Mac Platform within the year.<<
Within the year? Isn't a year almost two decades in computer time? Ah well,
thanks for the tease.
-- "Keeping the faith,"
Walt SterdanSubj: Re:3D APP NEEDED
Date: 96-06-03 03:42:15 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>Thanks for the info. It's always nice to know the real names of things.<<<
Naw, thats OK. I knew the process, but I kept calling it Desomation myself
until the guys corrected me, ;-)
Murphy's law, etc., etc.
Erik D.Subj: where'd U edu?
Date: 96-06-08 13:38:41 EDT
From: Wrangler82
Posted on: America Online
Hi, I'm a videographer who recently got bitten by the 3D bug (using
Lightwave 3D in the Video Toaster). I'm interested in knowing more about.
Perhaps go to school for design/art. -I'm not a fine artist- I want to know
if there are some schools I should look into? Can anyone make some
suggestions? Or should I buy my own package (i.e. Strata Studio caught my
eye) and muddle through it? Another Qusetion: are there preferences between
modeling, rendering and animation programs? Is there one that a lot of people
like? Is there one that, when bundled, is superior to others? Do you think I
ask too many questions?
An idea of what I would like to do is animate text, extrude it in real
time. I would also like to learn to animate human and other animal figures.
If you'd like to tell me where you got your training or answer any or all my
"100 questions", I'd appreciate it.
Thanx, Wrangler82Subj: Dragon Models
Date: 96-06-09 13:26:32 EDT
From: RCohen9951
Posted on: America Online
I'm looking for nicely detailed dragon models made in or at least usable in
SSP. The've got to be able to be animated in an at least limited way. I've
got some models I could part with for royalty-free dragons please email me.
or post reply.
Subj: Sinkha Book?
Date: 96-06-16 15:40:57 EDT
From: AndyD65
Posted on: America Online
Did I understand a previous post correctly? Did someone say an in-depth book
on the creation of SINKHA was going to be released? I just got Sinkha and
I'm dying to know exactly how it was produced.
As far as the big debate going on in here, I didn't find it very
enlightening. As someone who has StudioPro, I am just interested in knowing
if it is realistic for me to try to create such complex images solely using
StudioPro (with a little help from Photoshop & MediaPaint). Anyone know the
truth? I'm dying to know.
So, does anyone know if there's gonna be a book? Certainly Mojave's "making
of" pamphlet was less than adequate. Thanks for any info you can offer.
Andy
Subj: Re:Sinkha Book?
Date: 96-06-16 19:15:57 EDT
From: DDC2000
Posted on: America Online
I heard that Sinkha was created with really, really sharp crayons, then
scanned and imported into a proprietary Italian pixel-editing program,
MarcoPaint 1.0. Anybody else hear this rumor?
Tim (mad at missing the debate) Mahoney
Art Director
DDCSubj: Re:Sinkha Book?
Date: 96-06-16 23:11:45 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>I heard that Sinkha was created with really, really sharp crayons, then
scanned and imported into a proprietary Italian pixel-editing program,
MarcoPaint 1.0. Anybody else hear this rumor?<<<
It's called "Texture Maps" and thats what 3D Artists use to map onto their 3D
Models. Sharp crayons? It can be anything, Oil on canvas, Watercolor,
Charcoal. Whatever you create digitally or scan in.
If you want to get down to the nitty gritty then go out to the Christian
Lassen Gallery in Las Vegas. Even he is using digital as well as
conventional methods. Most of his works these days are Iris' with additional
painting on top of them.
None the less, Sinkha was modelled, rendered, and animated in StudioPro.
Photoshop was used for the Texture editing, etc. and MacroMind Director was
used to author the CD. That pretty much sums it up for you.
Erik D.
Subj: Re:Sinkha Book?
Date: 96-06-18 14:20:49 EDT
From: D Grahame
Posted on: America Online
As the resident user of old and forgotten software (Renderman, 3D Works),
what about Super 3D!
I loved that program, when Apple finally came out with a 68040 Mac (that was
fast enough to run it - the fx didn't cut it - Swivel (and "Spotlight") was
the only thing that ran fast enough to use on it.)
I wish a few current software developers spent awhiles playing with it, and
learnt a little about the elegance of simplicity.
If Brainerd didn't kill it, and its developer didn't get bored with it, I
think it could have been developed into truly the 3D modelling program "for
the rest of us."
Donald GrahameSubj: Re:Sinkha Book?
Date: 96-06-18 14:43:05 EDT
From: D Grahame
Posted on: America Online
On second thoughts "loved" was too strong a word to describe my relationship
with Super 3D. "Liked" is better......
Subj: Re:Sinkha Book?
Date: 96-06-18 21:10:24 EDT
From: DDC2000
Posted on: America Online
I was kidding Erik.
Is this board really this serious?
Tim (Obviously no comedian) Mahoney
Subj: Re:Sinkha Book?
Date: 96-06-19 01:58:42 EDT
From: AndyD65
Posted on: America Online
Geez...I originated this post and I still don't have an answer as to whether
or not there is any detailed making-of SINKHA book available/on the
way.<Grin>Subj: 1.5.2 and 7.5.3
Date: 96-06-20 01:51:50 EDT
From: GrrBear
Posted on: America Online
I can't get 1.5.2 to work with the new system upgrade, on a nubus ppc,
regardless of extension configuration. Tried a reinstall, no difference. It
crashes with a type 28 error. It works fine if I boot from 7.5 unpatched.
Anybody else getting this? We're not going to upgrade to 1.75.Subj: Re:1.5.2
and 7.5.3
Date: 96-06-20 10:54:44 EDT
From: MediaGuy98
Posted on: America Online
well, if you want SSP to work, you're going to either need to leave Sys 7.5
unpatched, or upgrade...
unless there's something else?Subj: Re:1.5.2 and 7.5.3
Date: 96-06-20 22:06:01 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>unless there's something else?<<<
I'm not going to tell you that 2.0 is coming, ;-)Subj: Re:Sinkha Book?
Date: 96-06-21 15:06:01 EDT
From: StrataTek2
Posted on: America Online
FYI.
The only SINKA manual is "The Making of SINKA" that is included in the box.
This isn't a detailed making of SINKA, as many of you have stated.
There is not any detailed making of SINKA book available or on the way.
A detailed making of SINKA will have to come directly from Marco if he is
going to reveal any of his secrets.
It would be great to know the secrets, but at this time, there isn't anything
available.
Launa
Strata Technical SupportSubj: An SSP Statistic
Date: 96-06-30 20:16:49 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
I uploaded one of my archives to the 3D Sig a couple of weeks ago. I decided
to see how many people had downloaded the archive. I was very happy to see
the results. I started digging through other peoples archives. Heres what
I've found,,, for every 3 archives I called up a description on, two had been
done with StudioPro. Im amazed to see just how many people are using SSP and
how creative the users really are. I like it, ;-)
I felt the subject needed a comment. I'm sure the other vendors will start a
big push to have their users up load more work now that it's been mentioned.
Just a thought,
Erik D.
Subj: QD3D's Killer App
Date: 96-07-09 11:10:53 EDT
From: JayGoodman
Posted on: America Online
Wouldn't it be great if there was a Mac 3D package that FULLY supported the
Quickdraw 3D API? Shouldn't that application allow the user to model with
polygons or nurbs, and easily switch between the two? Shouldn't it allow for
complex organic deformations with bones? What about advanced character
animation with inverse kinematics, unlimited surface textures, easy to use
vertex manipulation, an integrated, easy to navigate, easy to understand user
interface. ALL OF THESE FEATURES ARE COMING SOON TO A MAC NEAR YOU. But,
this application is not from Strata, NewTeks LIGHTWAVE 3D 5.0 has been the
professional standard for over 5 years, and now its coming to Power
Macintosh. NewTek will release the PowerPC and QD3D native version of
LIghtWave 5.0 in September. You can see it first at Stretching the Canvas:
An Exploration of LIghtwave 3D 5.0, an instructional seminar being held in
New York CIty August 23rd & 24th. Major hardware and software vendors will
be coming together for this unique event. For more information visti
http://www.msd-nyc.com. Register today, seats are limited.Subj: Re:QD3D's
Killer App
Date: 96-07-09 11:17:20 EDT
From: ACrawfish
Posted on: America Online
Look JayGoodman. It's great that LightWave is porting to the Mac. I'll
probably even buy it. BUT PUT YOUR POST IN ONE FOLDER ONLY! Spam is a
waste.Subj: Re:QD3D's Killer App
Date: 96-07-09 12:48:26 EDT
From: AFC Zoot
Posted on: America Online
Hey Jay....its a good thing that you posted in 11 folders! I almost missed
it, I think most of use read the annoucements it would probably be sufficient
to post there. It kinda rude to post in that many folders.
I understand your excited about LW 5, I can't wait to see it either
but................control yourself! :)
Thanx ,
AFC ZOOTSubj: Reply to "Killer App"
Date: 96-07-11 01:22:18 EDT
From: WaltSterdn
Posted on: America Online
Hey guys, I'm just as disgusted as you are by the multiple postings, but
really, should we all be adding messages and making each other read them to
see if anything new or interesting was posted? While I too think that the
incredibly brain-dead multiple postings were...really stupid (there's other
ways to describe it, but there are censors), and I find the postings of the
advertising in the folders of competing products incredibly tasteless, I
don't think multiple forum responses are the answer.
HOWEVER, might I suggest mailing comments directly to him, with varying
subjects, randomly over the course of a couple of weeks adequate payback for
making us check every folder for REAL new messages?
Just a thought.
--Walt Sterdan,
(checked an extra 18 folders for nothing)Subj: Re:Reply to "Killer App"
Date: 96-07-11 02:18:29 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
I understand where you are coming from Walt, but the rule of an open forum
states that everyone has a right to their opinion. Whats going on is that
the users are just frying up the Spam comment so it wont become Smagma
Cheese.
;-)
Subj: Re:Reply to "Killer App"
Date: 96-07-11 10:27:48 EDT
From: Sculpt Dev
Posted on: America Online
> Whats going on is that the users are just frying up the Spam
> comment so it wont become Smagma Cheese.
Okay, I guess I'll just set aside this danish and coffee for a bit while I
regain my bearings...
- JoeSubj: No need for Lightwave!
Date: 96-07-16 02:26:18 EDT
From: Power3D
Posted on: America Online
Hey, check out the specs for StudioPro 2.0, there will be no need for
Lightwave one StudioPro 2 is out. I wouldn't want to work in that Amiga
environment in System 8 anyways.Subj: Re:No need for Lightwave!
Date: 96-07-16 16:14:39 EDT
From: NthMan
Posted on: America Online
SSP 2.0 looks promising, but we'll have to see it in action, and put it
through the pacesSubj: Re:No need for Lightwave
Date: 96-07-17 01:55:33 EDT
From: Kth Lango
Posted on: America Online
>> Hey, check out the specs for StudioPro 2.0, there will be no need for
Lightwave one StudioPro 2 is out. I wouldn't want to work in that Amiga
environment in System 8 anyways. <<
There will still be a need for Lightwave. Will it conquer the Mac 3D market
in 2 hours like some claim? No. Will it be a really well developed tool that
can do many great things? Yes. Will it be the only 3D app I ever own on a
Mac? C'mon.
It's a screwdriver. Nothing more, nothing less. A high quality screwdriver,
yes, but a screwdriver nontheless. SSP 2.0? A wrench. ID 3.5? Wire snips. EI
Broadcast? Circular saw. Form-Z? 62 piece socket set. Sculpt3D? Needle nose
pliers.
Get the picture?
KeithSubj: Re:No need for Lightwave
Date: 96-07-17 02:07:16 EDT
From: Nurbs242
Posted on: America Online
I agreee with you for the most part Keith, but I dont see the need for So
many tools...I also use more than 2 or 3 tools , but I certainly dont see the
need for all of them?? I mean com'on, there isnt anything that the combo of
formZ/EIAS cant do that Infini-D or Sculpt or several others can do.
ALthough with Lightwave we are gonna have to be patient because Ligtwave has
a much more loyal following than EIAS and other Mac tools do. Lightwave is
gonna do many more things than most people realize. Even with SSP 2.0..I
still believe that Lightwave will be out of its league.
- Nurbs242Subj: Re:No need for Lightwave
Date: 96-07-17 02:53:26 EDT
From: Gary 3000
Posted on: America Online
I think all the 3d apps will have a piece of the pie.
Lightwave will certainly find its niche,..especially since it's
"cross-platform". The PowerMac might not be an Alpha,.but it'll still
probably be a strong contender for rendering LW projects and stuff.
But after reading what Strata 2.0 will offer,.it sounds like Strata is
definately coming up to bat.
Gary
Subj: Re:No need for Lightwave
Date: 96-07-17 13:56:25 EDT
From: Kth Lango
Posted on: America Online
>> I agreee with you for the most part Keith, but I dont see the need for So
many tools...I also use more than 2 or 3 tools , but I certainly dont see the
need for all of them?? I mean com'on, there isnt anything that the combo of
formZ/EIAS cant do that Infini-D or Sculpt or several others can do. <<
True, but I sometimes find it easier to get a path extrusion out of infini-D
than form-z (this is all personal preference, BTW, not a feature knock. I
KNOW form-z can do anythithng, I just find it faster fro myself to use ID for
some things ..) and Sculpt3D's trim & weld booleans are easier for me to
understand than form-z's (not as many rules). As for rendering, no doubt, EI
beats em all. I keep things around because I find them easier for *me* to do
a few specialized things in. Besides, with the way things are with competitve
upgrades, this isn't as expensive as it might sound. I just like having a
bunch of stuff on my hard drive. Call me odd. :)
Just a personal preference, that's all.... <shrug>
KeithSubj: Re:No need for Lightwave
Date: 96-07-17 14:24:16 EDT
From: Nurbs242
Posted on: America Online
Yeah I know what you mean Keith...I also have alot of tools on my drive...I
love to put them through their paces and really find out what they are
capable of..(and what they arent capable of), but its fun to have a large
variety of tools to choose from.
EIAS definately has the speed edge, but I think Lightwave will have an edge
in just about every other aspect of a strong all-in-one tool. Its gonna
suprise a lot of people that have never used anything other than MAc apps,
believe me!Subj: Re:No need for Lightwave
Date: 96-07-17 16:19:21 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>I KNOW form-z can do anythithng,<<<
I don't, ;-)
>>>I think Lightwave will have an edge in just about every other aspect of a
strong all-in-one tool.<<<
I would like to think this is true, but,,, this is their first port. It's
frightening to think about all of those little bugs in there. EIAS still
does it right, ;-)Subj: Re:No need for Lightwave
Date: 96-07-18 00:21:27 EDT
From: Gatzz
Posted on: America Online
What is Newtek's reputation on the other platforms they support? My biggest
fear is simply sloppy coding on a new platform and the differences in
performance that this usually results in. Animation Master in habitual in
favoring the Wintel versions, often letting bugs slide and features go
unimplemented in the Mac version (sometimes it so bad that their tutorials
and tech support insist that something is possible until it they find that
you're using the MAC version). And, finally, I hope Newtek is smart enough to
uses the MAC platform to it's advantage. Simply porting the prog without a
review of some of the more elegant conventions of the resident platform would
be a shame.Subj: Re:No need for Lightwave
Date: 96-07-18 03:00:22 EDT
From: Kth Lango
Posted on: America Online
>> What is Newtek's reputation on the other platforms they support? <<
NewTek's online and phone tech support is historically poor. It's ability to
port on schedule also leaves much to be desired. We're STILL waiting for the
Toaster and Flyer systems for PC a full 2.5 YEARS after they were announced
as "imminent". And their marketing department at times seems like a bunch of
microwaved monkeys with large pick awls stuck in their ears. Honestly,
they're that bad. Their distribution channels are almost 100% old Amiga
dealers who can't move product to save their own hides. For many on the PC
side, the real challenge has been finding a Lightwave distributor that has LW
in stock and priced reasonably. Basically, if you had to grade NewTek as a
market force, you'd be forced to give them an "F" in every department except
software quality. They get an "A" there. But do look for quite a few bugs
when LWave Mac is released. Lwave 4.0 on the PC was just a roach motel til
5.0. To be honest, my opinion, based upon NewTek's track record, if we see a
full final release Mac Lightwave that is relatively stable before Christmas,
I'd be surprised.
KeithSubj: Re:No need for Lightwave
Date: 96-07-18 05:28:11 EDT
From: Nurbs242
Posted on: America Online
>>>I KNOW form-z can do anythithng,<<<
>I don't, ;-)<
True Erik, formZ can't do *everything*, but it has a lot fewer things it
can't do than SSP, I guarantee you that. (with the exception of animation of
course)Subj: soft shadows
Date: 96-07-19 21:24:42 EDT
From: Aart99
Posted on: America Online
Will SSP be capable of soft shadows in the 2.0 upgrade?
RichSubj: IK in SSP 2.0
Date: 96-07-19 21:28:18 EDT
From: Aart99
Posted on: America Online
When IK is implemented into SSP 2.0 will one bone just control one piece of
the model, say for instance a cylinder for a forearm. Or will it be such that
we could build an entire forearm and bicep out of one piece and place
multiple bones inside to manipulate the arm (forearm/bicep in one) at the
poly level?
The second method allows for a much more realistic look and much less
creasing as in the hard mechanical lines between two separate pieces.
I am mostly interested in the new character animation aspects of SSP 2.0, any
examples to look at? Screen shots etc.? Anything organic not robotic is what
I would like to see samples of. Subj: Re:IK in SSP 2.0
Date: 96-07-21 00:00:49 EDT
From: JohnLiscom
Posted on: America Online
" Anything organic not robotic is what I would like to see samples of." I
think that most users would like a stable program. You know, tools that work
how they are supposed to.
Cheers,
John LiscombSubj: Re:soft shadows
Date: 96-07-21 00:36:36 EDT
From: RK JEDI
Posted on: America Online
Strata can all ready do soft shadows. There are two methods I know of and
they are are very time consuming. First method is to use Radyosity - ouch!
This will create very realistic soft shadows with a very long rendertime.
There is a way to do it with Raytracing too. It was in a Strata newsletter a
long time ago. Instead of using a single light source you would create a
circle of lights (maybe 8 or so) and use this a light source. The lights
needed to be fairly close together. I don;t think I have the newsletter
anymore so you'll have to experiment.Subj: Demo?
Date: 96-07-24 18:55:44 EDT
From: BRC100
Posted on: America Online
Is there a demo version of Strata so that I can test it out before I buy it?
Brian
^Has no moneySubj: Re:Demo?
Date: 96-07-24 23:33:03 EDT
From: RK JEDI
Posted on: America Online
There is a demo of Studio Pro. You might be able to find it here on AOL in
the Strata Forum in the software library. I know it is at there ftp site:
ftp.strata3d.com
RussSubj: FS: Studio Pro Blitz 1.75+
Date: 96-07-30 01:27:06 EDT
From: M8BIUS
Posted on: America Online
For Sale
Studio Pro Blitz 1.75+
All manuals, disks, CD-ROMs. Mucho textures and hundreds of clip models by
Strata in Shapes format included.
$500
Email m8bius@aol.com for more infoSubj: Dumb Question
Date: 96-08-08 12:00:31 EDT
From: RobertC63
Posted on: America Online
OK, I've only played around with a demo version, but can you move the center
point- you know so stuff rotates off center?Subj: Re:Dumb Question
Date: 96-08-08 12:50:56 EDT
From: Sweaz
Posted on: America Online
>>OK, I've only played around with a demo version, but can you move the
center point- you know so stuff rotates off center?<<
Yes.
Click on Centerpoint (it should turn red), Control-Drag to desired
location.Subj: Re:Dumb Question
Date: 96-08-08 13:23:05 EDT
From: Sweaz
Posted on: America Online
I gave you a dumb answer to a legitimate question. My answer SHOULD have
been: Click (with pointer tool) on the centerpoint, then >Command-Drag< to
desired location.
Sorry 'bout that.Subj: Unfolding objects
Date: 96-08-08 14:08:33 EDT
From: CaptCloud
Posted on: America Online
Anyone know of a program to 'unfold' a 3D model so I can print it, cut it out
then fold it into a 'real' model.Subj: Re:Unfolding objects
Date: 96-08-08 14:15:20 EDT
From: Gatzz
Posted on: America Online
>>Anyone know of a program to 'unfold' a 3D model so I can print it, cut it
out then fold it into a 'real' model.<<
Form*Z can create unfolded 2D projections. It will even add the tabs for
gluing.Subj: Re:Unfolding objects
Date: 96-08-09 23:14:32 EDT
From: VirCon
Posted on: America Online
FormZ does this easily. A neat trick, but kind of pricey if that's all you
need to do.
Greg JSubj: Re:Unfolding objects
Date: 96-08-10 17:37:38 EDT
From: WaltSterdn
Posted on: America Online
The demo of Amapi also had this feature, but I didn't test it too much.
Still, if that's all you need and you can check if first in a free demo, it
might not be too bad a price (combined with its file conversion features,
like 3DS -> Amapi -> Strata), though SSP 2.0 should take care of this).
-- Walt SterdanSubj: Strata 2.0 Release Date
Date: 96-09-08 15:04:56 EDT
From: StuArtist
Posted on: America Online
In a phone call I made to Strata a couple weeks earlier they told me the
release date for the 2.0 version will be September 23rd. So far she said,
"Everything looks on target for that date."
Subj: Re:Strata 2.0 Release Date
Date: 96-09-08 23:36:14 EDT
From: Gatzz
Posted on: America Online
As a dissappointed SSP user who's found better ways to make things move I'm
actually looking forward to 2.0. And Amphi's the reason why! Strata will
probably piss alot of people of with the staged rollout that's been hinted
at. But SSP should give the Amphi modeler the foot hold it needs to grow.
Does anyone know it the engine was licensed or bought out right? Who will be
responsible for it in the future?
In any event its what we need, funky tools for funky shapes... Subj:
Re:Strata 2.0 Release Date
Date: 96-09-09 00:44:51 EDT
From: Rex Niger
Posted on: America Online
>>Does anyone know it the engine was licensed or bought out right? Who will
be responsible for it in the future?
Licensed. Yonowat's still chugging along with Amapi.
-EricSubj: Re:Strata 2.0 Release Date
Date: 96-09-09 02:58:14 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
Licensed from Amapi, but it doesn't look like Amapi at all. The way Amapi
handles geometry has been addressed. There is a new interface for 2.0 and
I'm sure you'll all be quite content. There are so many new features that it
will take you quite a while to learn them all. The Shaders are all new. The
Project window is all new. The Particles, Terrain, Infinate Plains, Working
Grids, Booleans, Multiple Texture Mapping, UV Mapping, MIP Mapping, Lens
Flares, Deformation Lattices, Goulash, etc.
You just gotta wait on it.
;-)
Subj: Re:Strata 2.0 Release Date
Date: 96-09-10 00:36:11 EDT
From: Gatzz
Posted on: America Online
>>Dude. It's Amapi. Not Amphi. You're confusing people.<<
...Just lucky I didn't try to type Yonowat...Subj: Re:Strata 2.0 Release
Date
Date: 96-09-10 02:42:59 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>...Just lucky I didn't try to type Yonowat...<<<
Hehehe,
OK, Gatzz is granted a giggle for that one.
;-)
Subj: Re:Strata 2.0 Release Date
Date: 96-09-10 10:27:12 EDT
From: Skcull
Posted on: America Online
>>Dude. It's Amapi. Not Amphi. You're confusing people.<<
...Just lucky I didn't try to type Yonowat...<<<<
Touche'!
SkcullSubj: Modelers & Animators wanted
Date: 96-09-11 00:02:17 EDT
From: Media Ho
Posted on: America Online
Magik Icon productions is currently seeking Modelers and Animators for a
multitude of upcoming projects. All work will be done on a freelance basis
and conducted on-line and in person whenever possible. All styles of work
will be considered on a project-by-project basis.
Please send resume and non-returnable samples (reel or images - NO MODELS)
to:
Magik Icon Productions
211 Garfield Avenue
Clementon, NJ 08021
or e-mail:
MediaHo@aol.com
If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm looking forward
to seeing your stuff!
Regards,
ed Lynch
Magik Icon ProductionsSubj: 3D Artist Wanted
Date: 96-09-22 16:29:48 EDT
From: GameWireAE
Posted on: America Online
Hello:
My company is working on an interactive Egyptian Game for the Mac/PC
platform. We need good 3D talent on our art team (currently consisiting of
one member). You would be paid with 15% of all profits made from the game.
Please eMail me.
Thank you,
Ben Wigler
Co-Founder of HyperPlay InteractiveSubj: Strata 2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-25 12:11:41 EDT
From: Gary Alvin
Posted on: America Online
I just talked with Strata and they said that 2.0 has been pushed back to late
November to middle December for release.
GarySubj: Re:Strata 2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-25 14:07:53 EDT
From: StuArtist
Posted on: America Online
Why am I not surprised!Subj: Re:Strata 2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-25 14:40:20 EDT
From: RandyWyan
Posted on: America Online
---->I just talked with Strata and they said that 2.0 has been pushed back to
late November to middle December for release.
Better to have it "late and satisfying" rather than "early and frustrating"
- afterall it is a very, very ambitous upgrade.
RandyWyanSubj: Re:Strata 2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-25 22:21:40 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
Agreed Randy!Subj: Re:Strata 2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-26 02:36:08 EDT
From: StuArtist
Posted on: America Online
Your point is well taken. I have to agree in that sense too.
Just a little anxious to get my hands on it for good reasons.Subj: Re:Strata
2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-26 10:24:55 EDT
From: Skcull
Posted on: America Online
Can't blame anyone for lashing really. It's like starving wolves climbing a
90 degree rock face for a zebra carcass just to have it jerked away on a rope
at the last second.
Morbid, but true.
Hey, is that a puppy?
Yipe!
SkcullSubj: Re:Strata 2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-27 00:06:44 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
Big bummer that Strata gets all the credit for being delayed. They simply
don't want any mistakes. Alas Vertigo just announced delays until next year
and LW is kinda slagging behind there as well.
;-)
Subj: Re:Strata 2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-27 10:44:03 EDT
From: EagleMH
Posted on: America Online
No software companies meet their dates. People shouldn't be surprised or
complain. Its better to wait for it to be done correctly. I look at release
dates more like a ballpark figure.Subj: Is this program good?
Date: 96-09-28 09:48:40 EDT
From: MessMeg
Posted on: America Online
Is this program good? It's the only one that doesn't need an FPU.Subj:
Re:Is this program good?
Date: 96-09-28 18:44:15 EDT
From: Macromed3
Posted on: America Online
Hmm, to my knowledge, "Mess", Ray Dream Designer is the only Mac 3D program
that does not require an FPU.
Regards,
John Dowdell
Macromedia Tech Support
Subj: Re:Strata 2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-30 00:55:04 EDT
From: Gary 3000
Posted on: America Online
<<I look at release dates more like a ballpark figure.>>
At the rate we're going,..I don't think companies should announce a release
date until they have their products finished and shrinkwrapped!!!
GarySubj: Re:Strata 2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-30 16:11:11 EDT
From: Macromed3
Posted on: America Online
"At the rate we're going,..I don't think companies should announce a release
date until they have their products finished and shrinkwrapped!!!"
But then we get pounded 'cause we didn't provide enough notice...! ;-)
j "ya just can't win" dSubj: Re:Strata 2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-30 19:32:45 EDT
From: STILR
Posted on: America Online
Life without the "Hype" just wouldn't be the same.Subj: Re:Strata 2.0
Delayed
Date: 96-09-30 19:49:19 EDT
From: CD3D
Posted on: America Online
>>>Life without the "Hype" just wouldn't be the same.<<<
Yeah, some people want to take all of the mystery out of life. ;)
ClydeSubj: Re:Strata 2.0 Delayed
Date: 96-09-30 20:36:44 EDT
From: JohnSledd
Posted on: America Online
I'm tellin' ya. The six month window scheme would work and work well.
Gee, I hope it was here that I was talking about that...
J.Subj: Strata Dongle
Date: 96-10-02 09:55:40 EDT
From: Gatzz
Posted on: America Online
I've heard that SSP 2.0 will require a dongle. No big deal...but I'm
wondering if there is limit as to how many of these things can ride on a
single ADB chip? Hell of a time for Apple to drop dual ADB ports and
introduce hard wired extended key boards. Subj: Re:Strata Dongle
Date: 96-10-02 11:10:34 EDT
From: Bugs123456
Posted on: America Online
.<<but I'm wondering if there is limit as to how many of these things can
ride on a single ADB chip? >>
I don't know what the limit is, but one machine has five on it and has always
worked fine. Someone did bring up the drawing tablet point in the adb port.
I have no idea about any conflicts there i put mine in the serial port.Subj:
Re:Strata Dongle
Date: 96-10-02 13:59:07 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
I also use my Tablet through a dongle and theres never ever been a problem.
;-)
Subj: Re:Strata Dongle
Date: 96-10-03 00:23:27 EDT
From: Gatzz
Posted on: America Online
>>Huh ? hard wired extended key boards ?<<
The "new" extended keyboards have the cord from the computer permanently
connected to the back of the keyboard, the mouse is still loose but connects
to a point at the deep center back with the cord feeding thru a wire path. My
wife's school received a pile of them...just glad the sales person at Club
Mac warn us off of them, luckily they still had some of the older models.
Subj: Dongle/ADB wear
Date: 96-10-03 04:09:14 EDT
From: Virtuality
Posted on: America Online
I posted a similar question in Strata's forum: Is there the possibility of
connector wear (on the dongle side or the ADB side) if I need to plug/unplug
the device every (working) day? I work at two sites, which will necessitate
dongle movement because I refuse to pay extra for an extra dongle just so
that I can work where I need to work and just to be able to use something
I've already paid for and registered. If I know that a dongle/connector can
be safely plugged and unplugged four times a day for, say, 3-4 years -
without any wear - I'll be able to rest a little easier.Subj: Dongle/ADB
wear
Date: 96-10-03 04:09:14 EDT
From: Virtuality
Posted on: America Online
I posted a similar question in Strata's forum: Is there the possibility of
connector wear (on the dongle side or the ADB side) if I need to plug/unplug
the device every (working) day? I work at two sites, which will necessitate
dongle movement because I refuse to pay extra for an extra dongle just so
that I can work where I need to work and just to be able to use something
I've already paid for and registered. If I know that a dongle/connector can
be safely plugged and unplugged four times a day for, say, 3-4 years -
without any wear - I'll be able to rest a little easier.Subj: Dongle/ADB
wear
Date: 96-10-03 04:09:56 EDT
From: Virtuality
Posted on: America Online
I posted a similar question in Strata's forum: Is there the possibility of
connector wear (on the dongle side or the ADB side) if I need to plug/unplug
the device every (working) day? I work at two sites, which will necessitate
dongle movement because I refuse to pay extra for an extra dongle just so
that I can work where I need to work and just to be able to use something
I've already paid for and registered. If I know that a dongle/connector can
be safely plugged and unplugged four times a day for, say, 3-4 years -
without any wear - I'll be able to rest a little easier.Subj: Re:Dongle/ADB
wear
Date: 96-10-03 04:41:51 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
Deja vu?Subj: Re:Dongle/ADB wear
Date: 96-10-03 09:55:29 EDT
From: EagleMH
Posted on: America Online
I've been plugging and unpluging dongles for several years and never had any
problems yet. Just take the necessary precautions like turning the system
off and being careful not to force it in the adb port. Most companies that
make you use a dongle are pretty good about replacing them if there is a
problem. Dongles are a pain, but look at it this way. There will be fewer
people using software for free that you had to pay for.Subj: (multiplicity)
Date: 96-10-03 15:11:49 EDT
From: Virtuality
Posted on: America Online
In case you wondered, that multiple post of mine was an AOL hiccup... I swear
I only hit the Post button once! Once! Once!
once,
-onceSubj: Re:(multiplicity)
Date: 96-10-03 16:36:17 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>I swear I only hit the Post button once! Once! Once!<<<
hehehe, just having fun with the multiposts, ;-)
Subj: Re:ADB
Date: 96-10-03 23:41:17 EDT
From: TWSMAC
Posted on: America Online
I was told by apple several years ago that 7 divices was the recommended
total including the mouse and keyboard.
Tom SnyderSubj: Re: Multiprocessing?
Date: 96-10-04 18:33:12 EDT
From: D Grahame
Posted on: America Online
Anybody heard any news about multiprocessing and Strata? I think I read
somewhere that the new version won't be supporting it first up - seems a
shame, as Apple's multiprocessing API just went gold master, and their scheme
seems to be very well suited to 3D apps, and rendering in particular
Despite reading about the expected-to-be-pricey 500 megahertz PPC chips
coming on the horizon from that small startup, the pricing strategy that
seems to have become industry standard for CPU chips is charging a hefty
premium for early production runs of the fastest chips, and significantly
slashing the prices of slower ones, and this points toward a dual processor
slower system continuing to be around the same prices as the 'next fastest"
single chip system (which seems to be generally only 25 percent faster.)
Macweeks tests on Photoshop multiprocessing show that dual processors make
slow processes run TWICE as fast, so a dual processor 150 megahertz machine
would signiciantly outperform a comparably priced single 200 megahertz system
for processor intensive work - ie OUR work, for those in this forum.
I note Daystar is selling a two 604 180 megahertz board for 7500 7600 8500
9500 for $1499, and Powertools has a Dual 604 150 for $999, a dual 604e 200
for $1799, and a quad 604/150 for $3999 and a quad 64e/200 for $5,299, all
Power tools prices after trading in your 120 or 132 card.
I think all Mac 3D developers should be making their Mac 3D code
multiprocesser friendly, even if it is just the rendering to begin with, as a
dual processor system of slightly slower chips currently seems to be the
maximum bang-for-buck for everybody with demanding applications,
regards,
Donald G.
Subj: Re: Multiprocessing?
Date: 96-10-04 18:38:53 EDT
From: D Grahame
Posted on: America Online
"as a dual processor system of slightly slower chips currently seems to be
the maximum bang-for-buck for everybody with demanding applications" --- AND
of course there all of us as well who are willing to spend more, and get
multiprocessing systems of the latest fastest chips!
DGSubj: Re: Multiprocessing?
Date: 96-10-05 05:09:25 EDT
From: Gary 3000
Posted on: America Online
<<I think all Mac 3D developers should be making their Mac 3D code
multiprocesser friendly, even if it is just the rendering to begin with>>
I couldn't agree with you more. MP machines are the future,..especially for
doing 3d.
GarySubj: Re: Multiprocessing?
Date: 96-10-05 13:40:08 EDT
From: Kth Lango
Posted on: America Online
>>> I couldn't agree with you more. MP machines are the future,..especially
for doing 3d. <<<
While it is encumbet upon the software makers to support MP, I think it
absolutely CRITICAL that Apple have an OS that can handle MP without cheesy
work arounds. I'm hoping beyond all hope that Apple does buy Be and we can
get the BeOS as our new MacOS 8. They'd be absolutely INSANE and tragically
myopic not to buy that OS. I mean, they could fork over a really big chunk of
change and have a shippable MP native, PowerPC native, preemptive
mutlitasking, microkernal, protected memory space OS by April- OR- they could
stick there head in their butts and re-invent the wheel in time for Siggraph
1998. I hope , I hope, I hope.....
KeithSubj: Re: Multiprocessing?
Date: 96-10-05 13:53:30 EDT
From: D Grahame
Posted on: America Online
It was in the Examiner yesterday that Ellen Hancock has announced that Mac OS
8 will not be backwardly compatible - sounds like they might be taking some
of the Be stuff, adding it to some Copland stuff, and coming out with the OS
we've all been waiting for - and sooner than expected.
I suspect the advent of Mac clones (and Macs) that run both the Mac OS and
Windows NT as last the laststraw for a backwardly compatible Copland - face
with that direct omparison, nobody in their right mind would run the Mac OS
rather than NT PPC because it was so sluggish. Now it will smoke, I daresay!
Donald G.
Subj: Re: Multiprocessing?
Date: 96-10-05 23:51:45 EDT
From: OLSONJJ
Posted on: America Online
This is a direct quote from Heidi R. from the Strata list.
"We will not charge extra for MP support. As far as third parties
developing plug-ins for 2.0, there are a lot of very interested
companies, however, the SDK is not quite ready yet. Once it is documented
and tested all these people can get going. Probably just before the full
product release in January."
Heidi Rosenberg
-I guess that ends this thread.. atleast about Strata and MP.
JohnnyO.
Subj: Re: Multiprocessing?
Date: 96-10-06 17:44:42 EDT
From: D Grahame
Posted on: America Online
Maybe Strata will be the basic power 3D app we've been waiting for. The list
at SIGGRAPH sure looked good - still in many ways it sounds like it will be a
"version 1", so it might have too many unwanted quicks. I hope not,
Donald GSubj: Sinkha
Date: 96-10-09 23:47:56 EDT
From: NthMan
Posted on: America Online
Hi there
In a special edition of Heavy Metal on the newstands now, there is a 64 page
spread on Sinkha as a comic. It also has info on the making of it.
After picking it up, I decided that I will go out and buy the CD Rom.Subj:
dongle
Date: 96-12-07 18:36:14 EDT
From: CCherub823
Posted on: America Online
Is Strata even worth a dongle?Subj: re: Dongle
Date: 96-12-12 07:13:39 EDT
From: Splaticus
Posted on: America Online
Excuse my ignorance, but what is a Dongle? Is Strata 2 Gonna have some
equiolent to an "authorization disk"?Subj: Re:re: Dongle
Date: 96-12-12 11:07:55 EDT
From: EagleMH
Posted on: America Online
>>Excuse my ignorance, but what is a Dongle? Is Strata 2 Gonna have some
equiolent to an "authorization disk"?<<
Its a small peice of hardware that plugs in to the adb port on the mac. If
you have it plugged in you can run your software. If its not plugged in you
can't run it.Subj: Re:re: Dongle
Date: 96-12-12 17:27:59 EDT
From: SmokerButt
Posted on: America Online
A dongle is what hangs between your legs. It is generally is surrounded by
hair.Subj: Re:re: Dongle
Date: 96-12-12 23:24:01 EDT
From: Kth Lango
Posted on: America Online
><>> A dongle is what hangs between your legs....<<<<
Other banality snipped.
Hey bud. Try posting when you get out of 6th grade, OK? We don't need this.
Respectfully,
KeithSubj: Re:re: Dongle
Date: 96-12-13 00:11:27 EDT
From: KRONOS 1
Posted on: America Online
Is Strata even worth a dongle?Subj: Re:re: Dongle
Date: 96-12-13 05:46:47 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
Are you worthy of Strata?Subj: Re:re: Dongle
Date: 96-12-13 05:47:42 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
Sorry, couldn't resist that oneSubj: Artists
Date: 96-12-13 23:09:33 EDT
From: RicmaSoft
Posted on: America Online
Ricma Software is looking for some talented artists to help create a game.
Our last game was created by some online members and it genreated some nice
income, but this one is expected to go above and beyond that. Contact me for
information.Subj: 2.0
Date: 96-12-20 07:01:11 EDT
From: Davein310
Posted on: America Online
I was at the Billboard Live launch party a couple weeks ago and saw it in
action. I was impressed with what it could do but not impressed by the fact
that it kept crashing at the demo stations. I'd like to know what Strata has
to say about it. I'm going to wait for 2.0.1.Subj: Re:2.0
Date: 96-12-20 16:11:55 EDT
From: Gary 3000
Posted on: America Online
<<I was impressed with what it could do but not impressed by the fact that it
kept crashing at the demo stations. >>
I was there too!
..but can't remember much,.I was too busy sucking down a drink.
Obviously, I'm confident we were seeing a demo of a BETA of 2.0, not the
actual release version
...I'm sure once 2.0 officially is released,..it won't bomb (as much?)
GarySubj: Re:2.0
Date: 96-12-20 22:37:39 EDT
From: Kth Lango
Posted on: America Online
>>> (as much?) <<<
Words that will define our generation....
:o)
KeithSubj: Re:2.0
Date: 96-12-21 00:13:27 EDT
From: KRONOS 1
Posted on: America Online
<<Words that will define our generation....>>
Ain't that the truth.Subj: Re:2.0
Date: 96-12-21 06:29:00 EDT
From: Spence 3D
Posted on: America Online
I was not impressed with Strata's demonstration at the party. It was overly
simplistic and did not show any of the features that are the big selling
points. The quicktime demos were pathetic. I went away wondering if any of
these trumpeted capabilities are even working. It looked to me like the
interface is nothing but a facade for an empty shell of a program.Subj:
Re:2.0
Date: 96-12-21 14:56:38 EDT
From: AZHSCS
Posted on: America Online
For all of us not so patiently waiting for the new and improved SSP. The
word at Newtek is that the Mac version of LW 5.0 is being duplicated for
distribution RIGHT NOW.Subj: Re:2.0
Date: 96-12-21 20:16:15 EDT
From: Macromed3
Posted on: America Online
" For all of us not so patiently waiting for the new and improved SSP. The
word at Newtek is that the Mac version of LW 5.0 is being duplicated for
distribution RIGHT NOW."
Hey, even better, EXTREME 3D 2.0 has *already* been duplicated and is now
being shipped out from distributors!! : D
jd
Subj: Re:2.0
Date: 96-12-22 00:43:48 EDT
From: KRONOS 1
Posted on: America Online
<<Hey, even better, EXTREME 3D 2.0 has *already* been duplicated and is now
being shipped out from distributors!! : D>>
Any better still, Extreme whoops Stratas behind BIGTIME!
8-pSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-22 20:26:41 EDT
From: Aart99
Posted on: America Online
>>EXTREME 3D 2.0 has *already* been duplicated and is now being shipped out
from distributors!! <<
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
I am looking for character animation examples (QT movies) of walking
characters (not robots) or a character picking up an object like a glass,
done in SSP or EXTREME 3D. Also what new features might be pointed out that
aid the character animator? Is lip-synching possible? Examples?
Thanks.
RichSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-22 21:43:21 EDT
From: Rex Niger
Posted on: America Online
>>Is lip-synching possible?
For facial and general character work VIDI's probably a much better choice
than either SSP 2.0 or E3D 2.0. Their new morphing system is just *awesome*.
The modeler's very powerful and the raytracer can do everything that SSP's
can except for the raydiosity mode. (Though I'm sure with enough bugging,
VIDI's engineers might be persuaded.) The Phong renderer is also about the
same speed as Electric Image, unfortunately no shadows or transparency yet :<
One big bonus, as a result of Apple's recent Nextstep acquisition, is that
Apple will presumably be bundling Renderman with the next version of the OS,
and VIDI's Renderman support is among the best.
>>Also what new features might be pointed out that aid the character
animator?
VIDI also has some excellent built-in 3D sound capabilities. So not only can
you see the lips moving you can hear what they're saying ;) There's also a
flocking animator which is good for animating herds or groups of things.
-EricSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-23 15:43:28 EDT
From: DarkPrints
Posted on: America Online
<<One big bonus, as a result of Apple's recent Nextstep acquisition, is that
Apple will presumably be bundling Renderman with the next version of the OS,
and VIDI's Renderman support is among the best.>>
Wow, that's quite a leap of intuition. From what I've read they only acquired
the Next company not Steves' other company or any rights to it.
Frankly for lip synching or character animation Animation Master is far and
away a better product with many more powerful features.
DarkPrintsSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-23 17:48:09 EDT
From: Timokay
Posted on: America Online
10 replies to a comment about 2.0 (as of my posting...)
Does anyone else sense a response from ErikTek coming soon?....
TimSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-23 18:24:05 EDT
From: Macromed3
Posted on: America Online
VIDI has an audio display within the timeline, which is helpful, but I'm
still unsure how'd you get away from the traditional animator's dope sheet...
for most soundtracks you'd need to tag beats anyway, and it's pretty trivial
to just mark down the time of each label.
VIDI's morphing puzzled me... it's just like the old MacroModel/MacroMind
Three-D pair, right? You sculpt copies of the model in one applicaton, save
the file, then switch over to the other application to control the morph
between them. This is nice 'cause it gives you discrete poses, but there's no
direct animation of geometry... am I missing something here?
Regards,
John Dowdell
Macromedia Tech Support
Subj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-23 20:21:42 EDT
From: Rex Niger
Posted on: America Online
>>Wow, that's quite a leap of intuition. From what I've read they only
acquired the Next company not Steves' other company or any rights to it.
Renderman is part of the Nextstep standard install for years, i.e. where
Nextstep goes Renderman goes too.
>>Frankly for lip synching or character animation Animation Master is far and
away a better product with many more powerful features.
And many more quirks and bugs too :D I keep getting this >< close to giving
AM a try then I go read some of the posts over in their forum and I get
frightened away again. Apparently they are a member of the Strata 'Thou Shalt
Remove All 'Unnecessary' Extensions, Because Our App Is So Flakey We Can't
Figure Out What's Going Wrong, And That's The Only Way It'll Work.' club.
Apparently AM *is* getting better, but with no docs, lousy QA, and an
'unusual' interface I think many will find it more trouble than its worth.
-EricSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-23 20:41:48 EDT
From: VIDIshawn
Posted on: America Online
For those interested in lip syncing, check the Morph and Lip Sync tech
reports at http://erehwon.caltech.edu/vidi/
Regards,
MilanaSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-23 20:57:28 EDT
From: Rex Niger
Posted on: America Online
>>This is nice 'cause it gives you discrete poses, but there's no direct
animation of geometry... am I missing something here?
Yes and no. While there are no tools in Presenter 3D that will let you say
lock a control point to a spline motion path, you do get an incredible amount
of flexibility with the Multitarget morphs. Since you can blend the targets,
you can a hold bunch of amazing effects that would be a royal pain to do via
direct geometry animation. I've done animation both ways, and overall I like
VIDI's way better. I've yet to actually use the multi-target morphing
animator solely in the traditional way of setting a target at a keyframe and
letting it morph from A->B->C. Instead I usually attache a whole bunch of
extra 'perturbing' targets that I use to add a bit of variety and 'life' to
the morph. For instance in this lava pool animation I've been working I
created ~12 targets. (I'll probably add a few more.) None of which are meant
to be used alone, i.e. I know I want a sort of twisting vortex effect when it
'gurgles' so I created a crater-like target and another that just twist the
control points of my patch around in the center. I combine then and voila
I've got a neato twistable craterish thing. But it's too smooth so I mix in a
bit of a 'randomized' target I made and it gets nice and bumpy. Wiggling the
sliders is so much easier than trying to directly animate the points over
time. You still have to edit them, but you just set up the 'boundaries' once
and sort of roam around inside them. Animating them sort of looks like 1/3A +
1/5B -3D -> 2A-1/10C + 3/8D -> etc.
With all of that said, I *would* like to see Modeler as a plug-in type thing
for Presenter instead of as a separate app to make editing targets more
efficient, but I don't really feel a pressing desire to go back to directly
animating geometry controls like in E3D. That's also a powerful way of doing
things, but gads it can be a pain in the butt at times...
Incidentally let me put in a request to the VIDI folk for a multitarget
freeform deformation animator. :D
-EricSubj: Real morphing for characters
Date: 96-12-24 00:39:51 EDT
From: VIDItek
Posted on: America Online
To expound on Rex's description, Presenter 3D morphing is much more than the
object A to object B morphing of old. While it does require that all targets
be built from a common base, it allows you to blend several distortions or
shapes at one time. One could go to the extreme and make a seperate target
for the movement of every point in the patch mesh, and then be able to
individually animate each control point of the mesh in the animator.
While not as powerful as Kinemation's skeleton and joint system and not as
focused on full body character work as Animation Master, we are working to
extend the functionality and Presenter 3D is very powerful for facial
expresions and subtleties.
So Rex, what is a multitarget freeform deformation animator? (I can't write
one if I don't know what it is).
VIDI EngineeringSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-24 03:37:09 EDT
From: CD3D
Posted on: America Online
>>>Apparently they are a member of the Strata 'Thou Shalt Remove All
'Unnecessary' Extensions, Because Our App Is So Flakey We Can't Figure Out
What's Going Wrong, And That's The Only Way It'll Work.' club. Apparently AM
*is* getting better, but with no docs, lousy QA, and an 'unusual' interface I
think many will find it more trouble than its worth.<<<
I've seen them say this myself, but they are being a bit hysterical. I run
AM all of the time with my standard extension set, which is pretty large, and
experience relatively few difficulties. I've found it to be enormously
powerful for the price, and in my opinion the $199 dollar version is so great
a deal for the money that no one should pass up having at least this less
expensive version in their tool box. I love to model with it.
ClydeSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-24 03:39:10 EDT
From: CD3D
Posted on: America Online
Oops, forgot to mention that they (Hash) also do have printed docs for AM
now.
ClydeSubj: Re:Real morphing for character
Date: 96-12-24 04:27:31 EDT
From: Rex Niger
Posted on: America Online
>>So Rex, what is a multitarget freeform deformation animator? (I can't
write one if I don't know what it is).
Very similar to the morphing animator, in that you would create an object
with multiple targets in Modeler, but instead of using the targets to morph
the base object, you would place and orient that object in space such that it
enclosed a region containing other objects. These objects would be 'linked'
to the deformation and would deform according to the deformation object's
morph targets. (the deformation object would usually be hidden during renders
:))
For instance suppose you had a bundle of thin cylinders, you could enclose
them with a larger cylinder that had two morph targets. One of which twists
it about its central axis, the other bends it into an S-shape. By linking the
thin cylinders to it via a deformation animator you could have the bundles
twist and bend themselves into an S-shaped rope. The amount of twisting and
bending would be controlled via the morph sliders of the large cylinder.
Obviously coupling this with a future IK implementation would be very cool.
(Blatant Hint ;))
Since all of this will probably be rather nasty to implement, I'd also like
to ask for the very achievable short-term goal of being able to implode stuff
with the shatter plug-in as well as explode. :)
-EricSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-24 04:28:40 EDT
From: Rex Niger
Posted on: America Online
>>Oops, forgot to mention that they (Hash) also do have printed docs for AM
now.
Cool, how are they?
-EricSubj: Freeform deforming tool
Date: 96-12-24 12:49:04 EDT
From: VIDItek
Posted on: America Online
Using a morphing object as a reference to morph sets of other objects is an
interesting twist on lattis deformation capabilities (ala TrueSpace). An
artist though once pointed out to me why he didn't like deformation tools.
He said that they were like a big complicated sculpting tool, only you were
restricted to applying them once "from afar". Often they would only do 95%
of the job, and he would waste large amounts of time trying to get the last
5%. It was far better for him to have good sculpting tools for making
targets (like a lattis deforming tool in modeller), and then he could clean
up the last 5% by hand, moving individual verteces if necissary.
That's the strategy we're looking at for Presenter 3D. While we don't have
all the tools ready yet (like multi-object morphing), what we do have gives
you complete control. I think that's necissary for producing professional
work.
VIDI EngineeringSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-24 14:06:07 EDT
From: DarkPrints
Posted on: America Online
>>Renderman is part of the Nextstep standard install for years, i.e. where
Nextstep goes Renderman goes too.<<
I hope that you're right! When a company pulls all support for a platform it
makes me wonder if they'll jump back in again. There have been alot of
promises from Apple and Jobs before with regard to what they intend. "The
proof of the pudding, is in the eating." So I'll belly up to the table and
hope to eat something besides vapor.
>>I keep getting this >< close to giving AM a try then I go read some of the
posts over in their forum and I get frightened away again.<<
For a lousy $200 bucks you can try it yourself and see what it's all about.
Quirky? You bet.. However, if you can just get past the initial shock of a
different methodology, you might be suprised =)
It's about as crashy as any other 3D package that I run. Sure it helps to
turn off alot of stuff so that it will run better, but I do that for almost
every 3D app so that it won't have to fight other extensions/inits.
All I'm saying is try it yourself. It'll only hurt for a minute. ;)
DarkPrintsSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-24 15:41:04 EDT
From: Rex Niger
Posted on: America Online
>>I hope that you're right! When a company pulls all support for a platform
it makes me wonder if they'll jump back in again.
True, but these are Strange days :) An Apple QD 3D rep. said on the dev.
list that he's really looking forward to seeing Renderman as a plug-in for QD
3D, or as he put it, maybe even more integrated than that.
>>There have been alot of promises from Apple and Jobs before with regard to
what they intend.
It's really pretty simple. Next has an agreement with Pixar that states that
they can bundle Renderman with every copy of the Nextstep they ship. Apple
now owns Next and the definition of 'Nextstep' is changing by the minute now,
therefore it's highly likely that Apple will do *something* with Renderman.
It's too choice a technology to just toss away. Furthermore I'm sure Pixar
would just *love* it if Apple were to lend them a couple hundred PowerMacs
and a few NetServers to render their next movie ;) Both sides of the fence
have a lot to gain by incorporating Renderman into the new OS.
>>For a lousy $200 bucks you can try it yourself and see what it's all about.
I was under the impression that the $199 MHA was a stripped down version of
AM.
>>All I'm saying is try it yourself. It'll only hurt for a minute. ;)
But how long will that minute take to render? :)
-EricSubj: Re:Freeform deforming tool
Date: 96-12-24 15:52:49 EDT
From: Rex Niger
Posted on: America Online
>>It was far better for him to have good sculpting tools for making targets
(like a lattis deforming tool in modeller), and then he could clean up the
last 5% by hand, moving individual verteces if necissary.
It'd be really nifty if you use such an object deformation tool in both
Presenter and Modeler. That gives the best of all worlds. Want a lattice for
sculpting in Modeler, make a box around want you want to deform, give it some
targets and play with the sliders. Want to Morph object groups in Presenter,
use that box again. Really it's basically the same code being put in both
places, if you could get such a system working in Modeler it shouldn't be all
that hard to get it working in the Presenter or vice versa.
>>While we don't have all the tools ready yet (like multi-object morphing),
what we do have gives you complete control.
That it does :D
-EricSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-24 16:47:45 EDT
From: Stabnoise
Posted on: America Online
>>I was under the impression that the $199 MHA was a stripped down version of
AM.<<
The $199 version lacks the network renderer(netrender) and the
compositer(multiplane).
Renderer is a bit on the slow side.
Most problems I have experienced in Hash have to do with lost decals and
such. In order to maintain cross platform compatability Hash structures the
project files in such a way that the whole project is readable across various
platforms.(or so I am told) If you move a decal or a folder, then you will
experience problems. Most other problems with Hash are avoidable (once you
know what they are) but the interface is definitely non-mac.
On a side note, some reveiws and literature out there say that Hash exports
RIB files. Don't beleive it. The RIB export out of Hash is lousy.Subj:
Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-27 00:07:15 EDT
From: D Grahame
Posted on: America Online
Another Mac application that is in some ways unsurpassed on any platform for
certain types of character animation (specifically, complex human
dance/motion using separated polygonal jointed figures) is Lifeforms.
Since Macromedia stopped publishing it (they never developed it, only
distributed and published it), development has continued , and a version 2
was recently released by another publisher (on Windows as well, I think now,
with the SGI version dropped), whose name I have forgotten, I think it was
something like Kinetic Effects. If anyone is interested, it was in a recent
Macweek; I can hunt it down if anybody does not have access.
It writes out a character animation script that can be used by Electric
Image, Extreme 3D, and the old 3D Works. I think the new version supports
some other formats also, maybe VIDI.
I intend to update my copy when I get the chance (the update is $99). Then
I'll know more about it. What we are lacking on the Mac as far as I know is
some skeletal-based deformation animation system, like 3D Studio's "Bones",
although maybe the new Lifeforms allows you to do this, although I doubt it,
regards,
Donald GrahameSubj: Re:2.0 (character animation)
Date: 96-12-27 00:12:02 EDT
From: D Grahame
Posted on: America Online
<<What we are lacking on the Mac as far as I know is some skeletal-based
deformation animation system, like 3D Studio's "Bones">>
Except AM of course. I'm afraid, despite vocal support from some, I have
found I hate it pretty much totally (not the least of its problems is an ugly
renderer to my eyes), and have let my upgrades lapse on it.
DGSubj: question?
Date: 96-12-27 01:46:04 EDT
From: VisLink
Posted on: America Online
Siince no one else cares that they're discussing other products other than
Studio Pro, I can ask a question.
Has anyone seen the ElectricImage Modeler in action yet? They're slated for a
Feb release and I was thinking of getting it (or Lightwave.)
RobertSubj: Re:question?
Date: 96-12-27 01:51:59 EDT
From: Sric
Posted on: America Online
If you can wait the EI modeler appears to be much more robust than anything
else out there. Although only time will tell.Subj: Re:question?
Date: 96-12-28 18:17:02 EDT
From: Kandori
Posted on: America Online
I called EI several times to ask about it's new modeler and heard some good
things about it. The President of EI has LW and SI and other softwares and
is aware of EI's competitors features. I don't think EI would come up with a
modeler inferior to LW nor Form-z. They just wouldn't be dumb enough to put
all the effort into it knowing there are Form-z, VIDI, LW users out there and
then put out an inferior modeler. The tech guy at EI told me that LW does
not have a "true" Nurbs, but something "like" true Nurbs (he called it a
"neat trick"). But the New EI modeler will have True Nurbs(which doesn't
have to have "four" points always like the LW's meatnurb). Maybe we'll be
able to see it at Macworld.
KanSubj: Re:question?
Date: 96-12-30 19:12:59 EDT
From: Macromed3
Posted on: America Online
"The President of EI has LW and SI and other softwares and is aware of EI's
competitors features."
Okay... but the geometry and animation engines still aren't speaking to each
other, true? Just different apps that pass data back and forth? That's useful
for solid-body animation, but seems like a big barrier to future growth....
jdSubj: Re:question?
Date: 96-12-31 10:53:53 EDT
From: Sric
Posted on: America Online
<
Okay... but the geometry and animation engines still aren't speaking to each
other, true? Just different apps that pass data back and forth? That's useful
for solid-body animation, but seems like a big barrier to future growth....>
That's true for the first version John, but then it will be intergrated in
the next rev of EI. Which will have morphing John.
..FredSubj: Re:question?
Date: 96-12-31 20:13:05 EDT
From: Macromed3
Posted on: America Online
Ah, good, so they'll be following Extreme 3D too, glad to hear it.... ;-)
j "can't resist the tweak" dSubj: Re:question?
Date: 97-01-01 13:09:50 EDT
From: Sric
Posted on: America Online
<<Ah, good, so they'll be following Extreme 3D too, glad to hear it.... ;-)
j "can't resist the tweak" d>>
Yes.... but I'm sure it will be much more professional, unlike E3D.
..Fred Subj: Re:question?
Date: 97-01-01 15:00:18 EDT
From: VisLink
Posted on: America Online
<<Ah, good, so they'll be following Extreme 3D too, glad to hear it.... ;-)
j "can't resist the tweak" d>>
Besides, a couple neat tricks, I haven't seen anything in Extreme3D to make
me want to buy it. One person says its buggy anyway (V1.x)
Its simply behind the times like most long-time modeler/renderer packages
born on the Mac. InfiniD, Designer, StudioPro, Extreme3D, they all fall
short.
The newbies to the Mac platform ALL have more potential then whats out there
presently. Lightwave, (ElectricImage Modeler from what I hear), PixelPutty(if
it evers grows up), Cinema4D(just barely) are simply more powerful.
RobertSubj: Re:question?
Date: 97-01-02 03:50:34 EDT
From: AZHSCS
Posted on: America Online
While E3D may have a long way to go to get into the big leagues, wouldn't
it be nice if all other companies had as constant a presence on the
boards?Subj: Re:question?
Date: 97-01-02 12:37:27 EDT
From: VisLink
Posted on: America Online
I won't argue that John board hops more then anyone else (for better or
worse), and almost always has usefull information to post, Specular has a
great online presence as well.Subj: Re:question?
Date: 97-01-02 15:09:41 EDT
From: Macromed3
Posted on: America Online
"The newbies to the Mac platform ALL have more potential then whats out there
presently. Lightwave, (ElectricImage Modeler from what I hear), PixelPutty(if
it evers grows up), Cinema4D(just barely) are simply more powerful."
Hold that pose... say "cheese"... [CLICK!] Great! We'll come back to this
once you can actually use those tools.... <wicked grin>
j "#grass: [0,255,0]" d
Subj: Re:question?
Date: 97-01-18 16:02:45 EDT
From: EMC ART
Posted on: America Online
I have just read the posts of the last month and I have a few questions:
1. Does anyone own/use lightwave for the mac and how good is it?
2. Can lightwave do the Japanese style animation I saw on their demo reel yet
or is that to come later? Can any other program do that?
3. what is AM, is it Hash, and where can I get more info on these programs?
4. Did anyone see the new EI modeler at Macworld, or is there any info on it?
5. If you had to buy one package for illustration (and animation for fun)
which would be best?
thank you,
EricSubj: DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-18 20:26:03 EDT
From: MindzEye
Posted on: America Online
Just got the dr2 release last week before MacWorld, installed it [removed ATM
& Type Reunion] on my 8100/100 with 80megs. For 2 hours this was the routine
- just using the standard primitives nothing major: crash, reboot; hang,
reboot; crash, reboot; crash, reboot; spinning watch forever, reboot; hang,
reboot; etc. for 2 HOURS!
My response - took out the cd, broke it on my leg, and threw everything away.
Ordered Lightwave and now looking for some sucker to sell 2.0alpha to when it
comes out.
Enough is enough......
MindzeyeSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-19 19:29:48 EDT
From: Sweaz
Posted on: America Online
>>Just got the dr2 release last week before MacWorld, installed it [removed
ATM & Type Reunion] on my 8100/100 with 80megs. For 2 hours this was the
routine - just using the standard primitives nothing major: crash, reboot;
hang, reboot; crash, reboot; crash, reboot; spinning watch forever, reboot;
hang, reboot; etc. for 2 HOURS!<<
I used mine for nearly 4 hours, initially, without crashing once, on an
8500/360+.
Don't really know what people expect from a Developer's (pre-) Release.Subj:
Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-19 23:58:38 EDT
From: MHYPER
Posted on: America Online
>>>Don't really know what people expect from a Developer's (pre-)
Release.<<<
Too much Sweaz, way too much.
MhyperSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-20 13:28:28 EDT
From: MindzEye
Posted on: America Online
>>>I used mine for nearly 4 hours, initially, without crashing once, on an
8500/360+.
Don't really know what people expect from a Developer's (pre-) Release.<<<
I'd expect it to work at least half as good as other beta software I've
tested over the past few years - Infini-D 3.0, Extreme 3D 2.0 to name a few.
As a seasoned 3d user, I understand that this isn't even beta software and
had no expectations that it would work. But come on, it isn't stable at all.
Watching the Strata demos at MacWorld last week led me to believe that they
were walking on eggshells hoping it didn't crash in the middle of their very
simple demos.
Once again Strata's backed themselves into a corner by promising way to much
way to soon. Get the software stable, then add bells and whistles.
MindzeyeSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-21 00:28:06 EDT
From: KELTER
Posted on: America Online
>>Watching the Strata demos at MacWorld last week led me to believe that they
were walking on eggshells hoping it didn't crash in the middle of their very
simple demos<<
Actually dr2 did die a few times when I saw it at MWSF. All kinds of screen
update problems, too. Subj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-21 13:42:12 EDT
From: MMMarketng
Posted on: America Online
KELTER ,
RE:Watching the Strata demos at MacWorld last week led me to believe that
they were walking on eggshells hoping it didn't crash in the middle of their
very simple demos
RE:Actually dr2 did die a few times when I saw it at MWSF. All kinds of
screen update problems, too.
I too caught the demo's and thought that the software was clearly in an alpha
state (barely). We have DR1 & DR2 and these do not qualify as alphas. Alpha
is defined as feature complete, all features function and the product is
usabley stable. How this code is going to ship in 10 days is beyond me. DR2
reminded me of E3D1 (a rewrite also) when we launched it at Siggraph in
August of 1995. We ultimately shipped it in January of 1996 (nearly 6 mos
after launch!). I'm looking forward to my shipping copy.
Regards,
Rix Kramlich
3DPM
MacromediaSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-21 21:31:14 EDT
From: Macromed3
Posted on: America Online
"DR2 reminded me of E3D1 when we launched it at Siggraph..."
I'm sorry, Rix, I'd have to differ with you on that. I demo'd it all day
every day there, doing whatever people asked it to do. It was
feature-complete, and did fail occassionally, but it was a joy.
jdSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-21 22:40:50 EDT
From: Aart99
Posted on: America Online
>>I'm sorry, Rix, I'd have to differ with you on that. I demo'd it all day
every day there, doing whatever people asked it to do.<<
Macromed3 (JD):
Good thing I wasn't there... I keep asking for examples of character
animation because I feel that this is the determining factor for my decision
making. Do you have any examples of organic character animation (not robots).
Not stills or bad animation but realistic or cartoonish animation of real or
cartoonish characters. I am sincerely interested, not trying to be a pain.
Rich
>>> It was feature-complete, and did fail occassionally, but it was a joy.
jd<<
Subj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-22 18:52:59 EDT
From: Macromed3
Posted on: America Online
"Do you have any examples of organic character animation (not robots)."
Are you asking where there are examples of Extreme 3D being used in
commercial cartooning work? If so I'd be hardpressed to answer, because there
are few cartoons that use 3D, and those tend to be production studios...
ReBoot on SoftImage, some of the... uh... I forget their name, y'know the
ones on Saturday mornings with the nice wipes.
I know that Martin Hash & Co have a reel that shows their tool in cartoon
work, but from what I understand that worked backwards... they wanted to make
a cartoon, so they made the tools they could use.
Maybe there's another way I could be of help...? Aside from looking for
examples, are there particular abilities you're seeking...?
Regards,
John Dowdell
Macromedia Tech Support
Subj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-23 02:50:20 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
Some of you may remember when I did the 3D Looney Tunes project during my
tenor with Warner Bros using Strata SSP Blitz. We also did some anis with
the characters in SSP Blitz. The models were also ported to EIAS for various
animations. In short they were all organics animated with DeskTop Software.
Ask not what your software can do for you, but what you can do with your
software,
;-)
Subj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-23 11:26:13 EDT
From: RandyWyan
Posted on: America Online
---->during my tenor with Warner Bros
Erik,
I had no idea you vocally talented as well ;-)
Best,
RandyWyanSubj: DR2 Being Stable
Date: 97-01-23 16:11:24 EDT
From: Mr Fizzz
Posted on: America Online
Macromed3 typed:
<< I'm sorry, Rix, I'd have to differ with you on that. I demo'd it all day
every day there, doing whatever people asked it to do. It was
feature-complete, and did fail occassionally, but it was a joy. >>
Hello,
What exactly is your configuration on your computer, Macromed3? I am just
curious because when I tried DR2, it crashed a couple of times too. I have an
8500/64/2gig/256k system and it worked for about 10 minutes, then crashed.
This happened a couple of times. Could you inform me (and maybe some others
in the process) what makes your system stable when running DR2?
Thanks,
ScottSubj: Re:DR2 Being Stable
Date: 97-01-23 17:47:46 EDT
From: Macromed3
Posted on: America Online
I'm sorry, Scott, for discretion's sake I was a bit less than clear... I was
demo'ing a pre-beta of Extreme 3D 1.0 all day at SIGGRAPH 95, not SSP.
(I've read the docs on my SSP DR2, but from comments on the boards, I've not
fired it up.)
jdSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-23 20:43:56 EDT
From: Aart99
Posted on: America Online
I wrote:
"Do you have any examples of organic character animation (not robots)."
John Dowdell responded:
>>Are you asking where there are examples of Extreme 3D being used in
commercial cartooning work? If so I'd be hardpressed to answer, because there
are few cartoons that use 3D, and those tend to be production studios...
[snip]<<<
Actually I'm not as interested in big name Studio's work just examples using
E3d or any other desktop programs.
>>>Maybe there's another way I could be of help...? Aside from looking for
examples, are there particular abilities you're seeking...?<<
Always trying to develop my character animation abilities and capabilities.
For instance I don't think that many computer based apps handle squash and
stretch very well; simply scaling in x,y or z or any combination thereof
doesn't quite look right, because it affects the entire object as a whole
instead of just the portion that should have squash or stretch.
Thanks.
RichSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-23 20:53:19 EDT
From: Aart99
Posted on: America Online
ErikTek1 wrote:
>>>Some of you may remember when I did the 3D Looney Tunes project during my
tenor with Warner Bros using Strata SSP Blitz. We also did some anis with
the characters in SSP Blitz. The models were also ported to EIAS for various
animations. In short they were all organics animated with DeskTop
Software.<<<
Can you point me in the right direction? I would love to see these.
especially the SSP Blitz examples of anims, were the models skinned or did
they have joints, were they modeled in SSP Blitz or digitized from maquettes
and imported?
>>>Ask not what your software can do for you, but what you can do with your
software,
;-) <<
Sorry but I have to ask:
How did you handle squash and stretch, can't imagine WB stuff without it. Or
maybe I should say how would you handle squash and stretch in Blitz, and do
you have examples? What about lip-synching or having for instance Bugs
picking a carrot up and eating it?
RichSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-24 01:28:22 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
>>>were they modeled in SSP Blitz or digitized from maquettes and imported?
<<<
Templates for the initial models were digitized, but the posing, assembly,
etc. was done in SSP. Facial expressions, fine sculpting, Texture Mapping,
Style Guides, etc. were also done in SSP. The project is about three years
old now and to date I model with Alias and SI. Digitizing is a thing of the
past and is fading fast in the industry. There are still many uses for it,
but the fine line comes down to digital sculpting exclusively at this point.
Organics is what the industry wants. SSP, Amapi, VIDI, etc. all do their
fair share of Organics. It all comes down to the Artist, not user, artist to
get the end result.
The point is, rely on yourself to get your job done, not just your software.
While all the complaining continues the rest of the gang is getting their job
done, something to think about.
;-)
Subj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-24 03:53:20 EDT
From: Kandori
Posted on: America Online
"to date I model with Alias and SI"----Since you use both, I'd like to ask
you something. I heard that the way many people do it is: Model in Alias
and then Animate in Softimage (then render in Renderman).
But If I had money to buy only one, which one should I go for? Is
Softimage modeler good enough for most things? Also, how is the rendering
speed of Softimage renderer, especially the Mental Ray renderer?(Is the
Mental ray render quality really up to par with Renderman?). I
currently use EI/VIDI/Fz combo, and am spoiled by it's rendering speed, but
the overall interactivity is just too slow (especially after seeng OpenGL in
action.. : ( )
Thanks in advance for any info, Erik.
KanSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-24 14:09:50 EDT
From: MMMarketng
Posted on: America Online
Rich,
Check out the following web site fopr some cool character animations made by
E3D user John Laney: www.idido.com.
He has some animations, wherein the character motion is generated in Life
Forms which supports the E3D Track import feature. LF also supports other
motion data standards too.
These animations, though, are not deformation based, but based on multiple
object hiearchies. Regardless these test animations are pretty cool. I just
got a copy of LF and the process of applying motion data is not for the
newbie. Experienced users, though, will find it a valuable tool for creating
believable human motion. The auto-walk generator is really cool!
-Rix
E3DPM
MMSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-24 14:16:12 EDT
From: MMMarketng
Posted on: America Online
Kan,
It depends of what you are doing. Alias' modeler is without peer which is
why a large chuck of the product line's revenue is generated from the product
and automotive design markets. The animation very competent and the renderer
is really nice also. The proceedurals that Alias supports are very
sophisticated.
SI is very attractive if you want to do animation. It is also available on
NT platforms for $7.5K. The Mental Ray renderer is an add-on that features
displacement mapping and is the only other rendering engine outside of RM
that does this.
Realize that the sales model for these tools differ VASTLY than that on the
mainstream desktop. The products have a "basic" version and cool
functionality is sold piecemeal to you as you need it. A "loaded" copy of
APA or SI could easily run you $15K minimum.
-Rix
E3DPM
MMSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-24 14:42:47 EDT
From: ACrawfish
Posted on: America Online
>>>>>
But If I had money to buy only one, which one should I go for? Is
Softimage modeler good enough for most things? Also, how is the rendering
speed of Softimage renderer, especially the Mental Ray renderer?(Is the
Mental ray render quality really up to par with Renderman?).
<<<<<<
I have & use them both but prefer SI. It's much easier/faster for me to do
almost everything (except assign textures) in SI. SI's modeler is improving
(they've added surface blending, for instance) and their polygon modeling has
always been much better than in Alias. They still lack modeling tools based
on surface/surface intersections for patches (booleans, fillets, chamfers,
etc.) that Alias does have. But when you try to animate such stuff in Alias,
it becomes almost useless since the animation update rate slows down
incredibly. Alias charges an additional $10K for each of their Advanced
Modeling & Animation modules so their software really ends costing $30K when
you get almost everything. It should be noted that Alias still sells other
"design" modules which are basically modeling modules for product designers
for which they charge BIG bucks (up to $75K): this is where they put all
their newest modeling tools. SI with mental ray & particles goes for about
$14K ($8K w/o) on either NT or SGI and you get everything.
There's a PC modeler called Rhino3d which uses the same NURBS library that
Alias does, has a much better interface than Alias, does everything Alias
modeling does, and costs less than $1K. Check out their web site at
rhino3d.com. If I had to buy new stuff, I'd get SI running on an SGI O2
machine for most everything and Rhino3d on a PC for models that SI can't
make.
As regards rendering speed, mental ray is now as fast as the SI internal
renderer but makes MUCH better use of multiple processors. Either is MUCH
faster than Alias's renderer. As for rendering quality, ILM has just
purchased a bunch of mental ray licenses because they now like it well enough
to realistically use it rather than their own Renderman. They were very
impressed with its motion blur and shading language capabilities. Mind you,
SI has been trying for over 2 years to convince them but ILM had their list
of requirements (shadow maps, motion blur, speed, all of Renderman's shading
language capabilities, etc.) which, apparently, mental ray has finally met.
mental ray now communicates with SI via an ASCII text file which is quite
similar to a RIB file so you can go in and hack it if you want.Subj: Re:DR2
experience
Date: 97-01-24 14:49:35 EDT
From: Aart99
Posted on: America Online
ErikTek1 wrote:
>>>The point is, rely on yourself to get your job done, not just your
software. While all the complaining continues the rest of the gang is
getting their job done, something to think about.<<<
I didn't mean to come across as complaining, I was hoping that you had
examples that I could see on a web site somewhere, or to see how you handled
squash and stretch for the WB project or in general.
Maybe I should direct the question more to the group, especially character
animators:
How do you folks handle squash and stretch in Blitz? And does anyone have
examples?
RichSubj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-24 14:52:31 EDT
From: Aart99
Posted on: America Online
>>>Subj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-24 13:09:50 EST
From: MMMarketng
Rich,
Check out the following web site fopr some cool character animations made by
E3D user John Laney: www.idido.com.
He has some animations, wherein the character motion is generated in Life
Forms which supports the E3D Track import feature. LF also supports other
motion data standards too.
These animations, though, are not deformation based, but based on multiple
object hiearchies. Regardless these test animations are pretty cool. I just
got a copy of LF and the process of applying motion data is not for the
newbie. Experienced users, though, will find it a valuable tool for creating
believable human motion. The auto-walk generator is really cool!
-Rix
E3DPM
MM<<<Subj: Re:DR2 experience
Date: 97-01-24 14:55:01 EDT
From: Aart99
Posted on: America Online
>>>Rich,
Check out the following web site fopr some cool character animations made by
E3D user John Laney: www.idido.com.<<<<
Sorry about the last posting what I meant to say was:
Rix:
Thanks for the information I'll check it out.
RichSubj: Re: Alias and Soft Image
Date: 97-01-25 02:26:26 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
Phew! Thats a tough call because both are so awesome. Coming from a
modeler's standpoint,,, (AFC John shaking with anticipation), Alias wins for
modeling. The curve control, CV's, Shading Speed/Redraw and the Shaders in
general are amazingly fast and efficient. On the other hand the learning
curve is quite intense. You draw curves, you skin, you have to clean up the
Geometry, there is alot of thinking to keep in mind. You are afterall using
digital puddy and you are sculpting in real time. I am once again sentenced
back to art school taking every conventional sculpting class I can get my
hands on. Theres alot to be said with thinking in 3D, xyz, uv, etc. and
understanding volumes. I suggest that all of you modelers out there take
conventional sculpting classes.
After training on Alias I confronted Soft Image,,, in two hours I was
sculpting away. The learning curve is much less and it gets the job done.
The awkward part is trying to get to your Marking Menus in SI when you want
to access your tools. For those of you who get the joke, ;-)
There are some major differences between the two, some being that you have
versatile undos in SI, Alias not. In Si your changing of views also count as
undo/redos, but you can save up to four vies per window and if you set up
correctly in the first place, you wont have to waste your undos panning
around the models. ;-)
There are many subtle differences as well, one thing in Alias goes the other
way in SI. You also have to deal with the scourge of the unix universe when
it comes to a beast called "Database". One nifty feature that I personally
appreciate in SI is the fact that you can draw curves in the perspective
window.
In short both apps are absolutely incredible! Both are very strong in what
they do and I for one could never decide which one is ultimately better.
On another note, I am still shivering over the upcoming Modeler from EIAS.
This is it gang, the shit is coming down to terms and the Mac is being
brought into the final cutting edge relm! With the features that Strata is
bringing to the DeskTop, along with the already established intense power of
EIAS to the Alien Style PolyMesh Lava that Amapi generates to the unending
dimensions with Detailer for texture painting to IK and Physics generating
from apps such as LifeForms to the continued ingenuity of VIDI as well, I
will say that the Golden Age of the Mac will be shortly upon us. It's
confusing to have the unleashed raw power of an SGI unlimited to the power of
it's creation ability vs. the awesome versatility of the Mac and all that it
has to offer to choose only one, hence I have one overall conclusion. Know
and use both!
The platform and the software will no longer be an excuse because it's all
there for the taking. I forsee the future arguments in this forum coming
down to discussing technique and further personal artistic improvment as
opposed to what software can do what, lets do it ourselves, forget the
pre-programmed crap already.
Phew,,, all that in one giant breath.
I'm signing off so I can model some more, use what you will and do what you
do, it's a free universe afterall and these times are going to be the proving
grounds.
;-)
Subj: Re: Alias and Soft Image
Date: 97-01-26 18:30:21 EDT
From: MMMarketng
Posted on: America Online
Erik,
Good synopsis...It's good to get the real deal from a user POV. My
descriptions always sound like something I'd write for a competitive market
anaylsis.
FYI: RE: Physics generating from apps such as LifeForms
**LF doesn't do physics, just human motion.
The best 3D physics I've seen on a Mac is found in Knowledge Revolution's
Working Model 3D. It is a $3K app' designed for engineers that can create
hi-res' (accurate) physically based motion simulations that are too cool to
believe. At this time it does not interface w/any 3D animation app's. The
app' does not do any physically-based deformations, but that's on the way.
Checl it out if you have the chance. It's also on the PC platform.
Regards,
Rix Kramlich
E3DPM
MMSubj: Re: Alias and Soft Image
Date: 97-01-27 05:54:36 EDT
From: ErikTek1
Posted on: America Online
One thing for sure, I always appreciate JD and Rix's feedback in these
forums. They don't just take, they also give. I always neglect to mention
some of the great things Extreme 3D does. Not intentional of course, my only
wish is that I could have a few licks with the Interface. I often have to
evaluate how fast I can teach a group of people an application quickly, not
that I'm in that position all the time, but when I am, etc.etc.
I have said this in the past, but I say again, it is quite inspiring to see a
3D app company in here with an extreme minimum of bias and quite an interest
in the 3D cause. I only wish that more companies would do the same.
I look forward to what 3d Software you guys will cook up in the future for us
fellow Mac 3D geeks out here in Post it land. Keep up the posts, I for one
read every one of them.
;-)
Subj: Re: Alias and Soft Image"
Date: 97-01-27 13:22:31 EDT
From: Kandori
Posted on: America Online
"If I had to buy new stuff, I'd get SI running on an SGI O2 machine for most
everything and Rhino3d on a PC for models that SI can't make.
As regards rendering speed, mental ray is now as fast as the SI internal
renderer but makes MUCH better use of multiple processors. "---
O2? Wouldn't SI running on a DecAlpha with a good OpenGl card be a better
and "faster" deal? Or Is SGI still the king when it comes to realtime
shading (with it's built in OpenGL card)? I'm asking this because I'm
really looking into buying SI(base version first and then Extreme later).
But I could get a Dec Alpha 500mhz for around $5000.
KanSubj: SI
Date: 97-01-27 14:20:27 EDT
From: DAEIL
Posted on: America Online
I'm thinking of buying SI NT, but, I just heard that SI is going through a
major remodeling of it's interface. I remember the nightmares I had with
Alias when Alias 7.0 sustantially changed its interface from previous
version. I don't want to go through that again with SI. Does anybody know
when the new version of SI will come out? Subj: Re: Alias and Soft Image"
Date: 97-01-27 19:52:07 EDT
From: ACrawfish
Posted on: America Online
>>>>>
O2? Wouldn't SI running on a DecAlpha with a good OpenGl card be a better
and "faster" deal? Or Is SGI still the king when it comes to realtime
shading (with it's built in OpenGL card)?
<<<<<
SGI is still "king." Any OpenGL board with comparable performance to the O2
is going to set you back between $5-8K! You really need to get a lot of
texture memory & geometry processing to get the board to compare to the O2's
built-in graphics. Realistically, you'd probably be looking at close to $10K
for an O2 with sufficient RAM (64 Mb minimum, preferably 128). A Dec Alpha
would require that much RAM as well but still needs a graphics card. That
puts the Dec NT in at least the same price range as the O2, probably more
expensive.
The 500 MHz doesn't help interactive work all that much. It makes for faster
renders but not so much faster than the O2 that it would be the deciding
factor. Another thing to consider is that the O2's video option (for realtime
video I/O NTSC, PAL, D1, etc.) is only $1K. NT video options typically go
for $4-8K.Subj: Re: Alias and Soft Image
Date: 97-01-27 23:42:34 EDT
From: STalkowski
Posted on: America Online
ACrawfish wrote:
"Realistically, you'd probably be looking at close to $10K for an O2 with
sufficient RAM (64 Mb minimum, preferably 128)."
hmm, I've been investigating an O2/Soft combo myself and the most recent
quote i've been told for the hardware is just under $7k for a p32 plus an
additional 64 mb of ram (96 mb total) AND a 20" monitor.
Regarding the following quote (can't remember who said this):
"If I had to buy new stuff, I'd get SI running on an SGI O2 machine for most
everything and Rhino3d on a PC for models that SI can't make."
After using Wavefront for 6 years (pre-Alias days) and mastering building
with pols, i have to admit it was quite refreshing to get the opportunity to
reapproach my modeling methods utilizing patches in Soft. I've yet to come
across ANYthing that i haven't been able to model in Soft. At Blue Sky we
also use Alias as an alternative modeling tool and find that it does offer
more tools dealing with NURBs, but that in no way lessens our output with
Soft either.
I guess what it comes down to is identify the problem needed to be solved and
pick the appropriate tool. Both do the job very well.
Steve Talkowski
Animator / Blue Sky Studios
http://www.blueskystudios.comSubj: Re: Alias and Soft Image"
Date: 97-01-28 05:28:27 EDT
From: Kandori
Posted on: America Online
"hmm, I've been investigating an O2/Soft combo myself and the most recent
quote i've been told for the hardware is just under $7k for a p32 plus an
additional 64 mb of ram (96 mb total) AND a 20" monitor."---
Would you be so kind as to share with me where you got this offer? It
sounds like an incredibly good deal to be truth... A 20" monitor itself is
about $1500. Please post here or e-mail me the # of the dealer.
Thanks a million.
KanSubj: Re: Alias and Soft Image
Date: 97-01-29 00:59:24 EDT
From: Alias3D
Posted on: America Online
Erik,
>>One nifty feature that I personally appreciate in SI is the fact that you
can >>draw curves in the perspective window.
You should start working with construction planes in PA. They create a 2D
context in 3D space that allow you to draw in the perspective window. I use
them a lot and they offer a lot of functionality. Take a look at the Concept
modeling tutorial to see them in action. In V8 they are even better....
Have fun,
RobertSubj: Help-Path Extrude
Date: 97-01-29 19:05:37 EDT
From: CyberDJC
Posted on: America Online
I am trying to create an intecate bent tube and I assume that using a
"path-extrusion" is the answer (if it's not please enlighten). If so how can
I do this - I have the 2D path and the 2D shape I wish to extrude, but the
surface modeler is still ghosted in the menu.
Thanks in advance!Subj: Re:Help-Path Extrude
Date: 97-01-29 21:01:26 EDT
From: Sweaz
Posted on: America Online
I'm not familiar with the term "intecate", but for all purpose bent tubing,
I've found it easier to use the link-Rib and Skin technique easier to use (in
StudioPro 1.75+) than Path Extrude. This is not true in StudioPro 2.0, where
Path Extrude is vastly improved.
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