Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 434
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 434
Friday, July 5th 1991
Today's Topics:
(none)
Russians and Current Events and Marina Popovich
Martian Anomalies Update
Re: Randle v. Klass
Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Re: Hoax Document
Bilderbergers & UN?
Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Near Earth Asteroid
Re: (none)
Re: Crash at Roswell
Re: Alien evolution
Hey, could someone post the most recent Paranet BBS list?
INFO REQUEST - Bennington AFB UFO, 1975
Roswell on Phx Radio
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ncar!ecn.purdue.edu!lush
Subject: (none)
Date: 2 Jul 91 23:34:59 GMT
From: lush@ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory B Lush)
Subject: Russians and Current Events and Marina Popovich
It seems that I have offended some people by not embracing
our new-found brothers in the Soviet Union. First of all,
when I spoke, I was not speaking of, nor making generalizations
of, the average Russian on the street, but rather of those who
would be allowed to speak to a national or international
audience. In other words, the political leadership, which also
controls the scientific world of the USSR.
I do not question the qualifications of Dr. Marina Popovich.
I wouldn't expect the Russians to send someone who claimed to
be from Venus. I simply recognize that the Communists still
control Russia, she has a family think of, and that no one would
be allowed to leave the country and/or say anything that did not
reflect exactly what was intended for you to hear. She would not
be in the position she is now in if she were not a member of the
Communist party, for instance. It could very well be that her
knowledge is limited to that which she presented--that would make
her all the more convincing and 'sincere.'
I was also accused of being ignorant of what has been happening
over the last few years, and of needing to check under my bed
to see if the Bolsheviks had left. Well, actually I HAVE been
paying attention to events. I'd like to share a few things
I've seen which, evidently, people see with different eyes than I.
I just watch the actions, and pay less attention to the words.
The Berlin wall came down. I saw this as the USSR dumping off
its dependents. After WW II, Russia wanted a buffer zone--a
physical space between themselves and their 'enemies' (The West).
In these days of nuclear weapons, that is no longer needed nor helpful.
Therefore the USSR simply dumped a bunch of dependents that were
sucking significant quantities of her resources. Now these
satellites are dependents of the West. Germany is now paying
the USSR to house the Russian troops in Eastern Germany and will
pay to have them removed. Poland and others are asking for and
getting loans from the IMF and World Bank which the US funds and
US taxpayers guarantee.
The German economy is under tremendous strain because of the
dependence of the eastern half. The Eastern Germans are demanding
more while the Western Germans are complaining about higher taxes
after Kohl promised no new taxes (sounds strikingly familiar).
The Russians left behind an ecological disaster area which
cannot be cleaned up.
Has the KGB been dismantled yet? Will it ever be?
What about our 'allies' during the Persian Gulf War? Russia kept
advisors in Iraq in numbers that ranged, according to the source
or the article, from hundreds to 10,000. These sources do include
the New York Times and NPR. These were MILITARY advisers.
A Russian ship was stopped by our blockade and it was
found to be carrying spare parts for Russian military equipment
that had been sold to Iraq. The ship was destined for Iraq.
I saw a great number of diplomatic exchanges
between Iraq and the Soviet Union during the war.
During the distraction of the Persian Gulf war, Russian black berets
invaded the Baltics, killing people by tank squashing. We (the U.S.)
never acknowledged their annexation of the Baltics. Doesn't that
make it an invasion of a small, independent, defenseless neighbor?
Recently an internal Russian report came out on the Army's behavior
during this assault. They found that no people were killed by tanks,
and that the Army was without fault. Some things never change.
Also, during the distraction of the Persian Gulf war, the Soviets
robbed their own people by recalling 50 and 100 rubles notes and
replacing the currency. People had their life savings, which many stored
at home, made worthless. Why don't Russians keep their money in the bank
like civilized people? Well, many years ago, Russian citizens woke up to
find that the decimal place on their bank accounts had been moved over
one place. Instead of 1000 rubles, they now had 100. So they stored
their money at home because it was 'safer' there.
Gorby showed that he could efficiently shut down the 'free' press when
they entered the Baltics. All those 'free' presses were quickly quieted.
Why are we (U.S. and Russia and England and France) still testing nuclear
weapons if there is so much Peace in the world? Why is England building a
microwave antenna system to track Russian warships in the Baltic Sea?
Why did Gorby install anti-aircraft weaponry on the roofs of buildings
in the Baltics during his 'intimidation' there?
Was he afraid the Baltic Parliamentary members would fly away?
We are debating signing a conventional weapons treaty with the
Soviets--who cares with all those nuclear weapons out there.
Did you know that there is still a war going on in Afghanistan, one
side of which is funded by the Soviets? Did you know the Soviets/Cuba
are still supporting armies in South America?
Did you notice that Bo Gritz keeps trying to tell people that the
Communists are still holding MIAs from Korean and Vietnam wars.
Did you hear that a fellow in our government resigned in disgust
because he realized that all government attempts by the US to
investigate this were a sham?
How many of you heard that Yeltsin demanded and, after a fight, was
given the same types of emergency powers over Russia that Gorby demanded
for the USSR? These powers led Shevardnadze (sp?) to resign, saying that
Gorby was taking on the look of a dictator. Bush has those same emergency
powers in the U.S. by executive orders.
Russia still has 20,000+ warheads and multi-million man army.
We are now giving them our grain. Those billions in agricultrual
credits that Bush keeps giving them are guaranteed by you and me
as taxpayers. They do not need to pay it back. The reports I
hear on the radio and TV constantly say that it is not a question
of lack of food in USSR, but inefficient ability to distribute
the copious amounts of food they do have. That food is rotting
in the fields and on trains. Is that the destiny for our surplus
grain? Are you sure it is surplus? So why do they want to pay for
our grain when they are so short of hard currency? Well, they didn't
need to hard currency to buy it, did they?
Did anyone notice that Gorby's meeting with Kaifu coincided
with the meeting of the Trilateral Commission in Japan?
So, I'm certainly not ignorant, as you would prefer to envision me.
I'm very aware of what is going on and I ask myself these questions
as I am made aware of the information. With regard to the Phoenix
Journals, I never took them to be true at face value, and I still
do not. Reading them prompted me to search for other materials which
support their statements. I have found an endless supply at my college
library. It's so much easier now with computerized indexing; all you
need is a few 'key words' like Council on Foreign Relations, WW II,
Trilateral Commission, others. Take a look at how busy these people
are publishing books about how our world should operate. One example
was the book I mentioned in my last post called 'Imperial Brain Trust.'
Another is 'Trilateralism,' edited by Holly Sklar, which also discusses
the Bilderbergers. There are certain facts about what is going on which
are undeniable, such as the influence of the Council on Foreign Relations.
The rest requires attention and some extrapolation and interpolation.
That is certainly the harder part and the more dangerous in forming
correct conclusions, but it can be done if you pay attention and
know how to listen.
You are NOT being told all that is going on.
To conclude that the Soviet leadership is suddenly more forthright
or is your friend, is a conclusion unsupported by the facts.
To me, it seems like the same old jalopy with a new coat of paint.
Greg (lush@ecn.purdue.edu)
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From: ncar!apple.com!well!ddrasin
Subject: Martian Anomalies Update
Date: 3 Jul 91 09:41:14 GMT
From: well!ddrasin@apple.com (Dan Drasin)
Gene Gross writes:
+ If there has been anything going on with the Martian anomalies,
+ could somebody who knows please post an update.
Hoagland is getting his membership organization, known as THE MARS
MISSION, more together and some educational materials are in the
works.
NASA's Mars Observer flies in 1992, if the good Lord's willin' and
the creek don't rise. JPL is committed to re-photographing the Face
and other anomalies.
I am working on the new book, THE MARTIAN ENIGMAS -- A CLOSER LOOK,
with Mark Carlotto, the chief image processing scientist of the
independent Mars investigation. It will be out in the Fall and will
contain visual (and other) materials not previously available to the
public. It will also contain a detailed protocol for the *proper*
re-photographing of the anomalies.
Dan Drasin
ddrasin@well.sf.ca.us
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Randle v. Klass
Date: 2 Jul 91 15:29:00 GMT
In a message to All <07-01-91 23:58> John Burke wrote:
->by Marcel. Oddly, Klass responded with the quip that
->Dubose is now 84 years old (as if this would impeach his
->credibility). Randle lost points for his failure to
When the issue of the Hottel memo or some other memo from the 40s is raised,
Klass usually sputters, "That document is over 40 years old!"
Interestingly enough, he seemd to do this the most during the year 1987,
the 200th anniversary of the US Constitution....
->should have pointed to the example of Barry Goldwater who
->asked the then Commanding Officer of Wright-Pat (in the
->70's) Gen. Curtis LeMay for access to the "Blue Room".
I got the distinct impression he tried to raise it, but kept getting
interrupted by Mr. Personality (King), who finally sidetracked him with the
Cheney question. Klass tried to laugh off the idea that Cheney might not
have had the proper clearances for access, but its conceivable that
political appointees would not be "in the loop." I'd sure think twice before
providing them access.
->Any other reactions to the show?
-> -- John
The one low point for Randle was claiming that his book was the first. I'm
sure he was just a bit rattled by the setting and King's machine-gun
questioning style, but it wouldn't have hurt anyone to admit the existence
of "The Roswell Incident."
--Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Date: 3 Jul 91 03:55:00 GMT
In a message to Michael Corbin <06-29-91 09:08> Jim Greenen wrote:
-> Ed did the right thing by letting MUFON handle the photo
->analyzes. MUFON has also sent the photo's to another expert
->and they are being looked at now. The results should be
What makes you so sure that MUFON hasn't been "compromised" by the control
group at the highest levels?
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Hoax Document
Date: 3 Jul 91 03:58:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <06-28-91 10:21> Steve Rose wrote:
->Not only is that a 'hoax'ish looking document...it also
->paints the pentagon in a conspiritorial light...the thought
->which in itself would be a farce. I'd say you've got two
->genuine hoaxes in one with that so-called letter!
Not sure I understand completely, Steve, are you saying the Pentagon is
above conspiracy, or structurally incapable of it? I don't think I'd go
along with that, remembering Iran-Contra....
Jim
--
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From: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen)
Subject: Bilderbergers & UN?
Date: 30 Jun 91 23:30:08 GMT
Hi Folks,
I spotted this on the Usenet newsgroup "alt.conspiracy" , though
it's *not* UFO related, is interesting nonetheless:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Article 3259 of alt.conspiracy:
From: campe@thor.uucp (Gary Campe ext )
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Bilderberg Annual Meeting - What was said
Message-ID: <14096@fpssun>
Date: 28 Jun 91 17:48:41 GMT
Sender: daemon@fps.com
Followup-To: misc.headlines
Distribution: usa
Organization: FPS Computing, Beaverton, Oregon
Lines: 42
This information was reported in the June 24, 1991 issue of "THE SPOTLIGHT".
This is not the entire article, only the highlights. If you would like to
read this article in its entirety please refer to the above publication.
----------------------------
The word out of the Bilderberg annual meeting is that there will be another
war within the next five years.
It was repeatedly stated at the Bilderberg meeting that there will be
"other Saddams" in the years ahead who must be dealt with swiftly and
efficiently.
The Bilderberg group plans a global army at the disposal of the United
Nations. It is their hope that the U.N. will become the world government
by the year 2000.
"A U.N. army must be able to act immediately, anywhere in the world, without
delays involved in each country making its own decision whether to
participate, based on parochial considerations," said Henry Kissinger.
If Americans can be persuaded to surrender warmaking decisions to the U.N.,
"parochial nationalism" in Briton, France and elsewhere will
disappear, Bilderberg speakers said.
"The Persian Gulf venture has advanced the cause by years" one speaker said.
----------------------------
So there you have it, the "One Worlders" are still alive and well.
Garry
--
RE-ELECT "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence - it
NO-ONE! is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and
========== a fearful master" -- George Washington.
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine alone and not that of my
employer.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This *really* makes me feel very confident that the UN is going to take
our "best" interests to heart :-(
Funny, I don't recall having elected the Bilderberger group to office; nor
am I convinced that their policies are in the best interests of citizens
worldwide. WHO appointed this group to speak for all of us?
I think this group bears watching.
Don
dona@bilver.uucp
--
Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Greenen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Date: 1 Jul 91 14:50:00 GMT
Sheldon; You said that you are confident that a affirmative response
from Nathan would add credibility to Ed's photo's and I agree. But I
also feel that regardless what you send to Nathan he will not give
you a affirmative response. Because the JPL is funded by the
government a affirmative on the photos would be saying that "yes"
UFOs are real and they are here and the government backs it. This
you will not see until the time is right. So to send these to JPL
would be fruitless and would not help the cause that the Ufologist
have been striving for so many years. And that is to make the public
aware that most UFOs are not from this earth.
I might be wrong on this but I don't think Ed sent the photos to
Bruce but gave them to MUFON and they in turn gave them to Bruce to
be analyze. That made MUFON responsiable for the photos to be return
back to Ed. As a State Section Director for MUFON I would seek the
wisdom of Walt Andrus if I came into procession of such photos. I
would not send them to a government lab.
When dealing into the subject of UFOs, its like playing a chess
game and we must not make play the game 1 move at a time or we will
lose everytime. Our opponents have employed the finest brains around
and because of wrong moves that we have made for the passed 40+
years we have lost everytime. And to send photos to JPL, I feel
would be another checkmate against us. This does not take anything
away from Nathan but most live with the old saying that you should
not bite the hand that feeds you. Carl Sagan is a prime examble,
very smart and knowledgeable but plays the game of life.
73's WB8ZII ---Jim---
--
Jim Greenen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Jim.Greenen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: ncar!ASTRO.dnet.ge.com!CARR
Subject: Near Earth Asteroid
Date: 3 Jul 91 13:35:29 GMT
From: Paul Carr <CARR@ASTRO.dnet.ge.com>
There was a recent NASA news release concerning an object observed on
Radar with a 4.7 year period and a perihelion just a little greater than
the earth's orbit. They think that it is a lumpy nickel-iron asteroid
They discovered it in 1986, so that its name is '1986DA'. I found the
press release on CI$.
Perhaps this is the object in question, but its orbit does not extend as
far as Pluto or Neptune, and it has not performed any 'course corrections.'
However, an asteroid that far out would very difficult to observe and easy
to lose track of.
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From: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: (none)
Date: 4 Jul 91 04:07:00 GMT
Greg,
Thanks for the message...it sure jars ya in your shorts...
Linda
--
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From: Linda.Bird@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Crash at Roswell
Date: 3 Jul 91 00:41:31 GMT
Hi David,
About the cover photon the book -- turn to the page which lists Copyright
information (printed directly on back of the title page) and you will see in
teensy type - "Fron cover photograph by Daniel Fry."
I think Jim Speiser mentioned in an earlier post that Fry is a contactee
and that his photographs are considered to be hoaxes.
See ya,
Linda Bird
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Linda.Bird@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Alien evolution
Date: 3 Jul 91 00:46:09 GMT
Kier,
Thanks for your post on the evolving dinosaur. I'm sure I have seen a
picture of this creature (perhaps in National Geographic) and there is a
section on this dinosaur creature in the book OUT THERE as well. The scientists
were very soberly studying pictures of this creature in regards to alien
abductions.
Write more information on this if you can!
Best regards-
Linda Bird
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rutgers!phri!marob!upaya!tbetz
Subject: Hey, could someone post the most recent Paranet BBS list?
Date: 5 Jul 91 03:33:26 GMT
From: Tom Betz <upaya!tbetz>
Some folks on the PC Board echo conferences are asking for a list
of the current Paranet BBS ssystems and their phone numbers.
Could someone please post it to the mailing list, say, once a
month?
Thanks.
--
-------------- 'Hels' og industri, de gaar haand i haand.'
Tom Betz | -----------------------------------------------------------------
914-375-1510 | tbetz@panix.com | betz@marob.uucp%phri.nyu.edu
GBS | {att,philabs,rutgers,cmcl2}!phri!marob!upaya!tbetz
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rutgers!phri!marob!upaya!tbetz
Subject: INFO REQUEST - Bennington AFB UFO, 1975
Date: 5 Jul 91 03:34:01 GMT
From: Tom Betz <tbetz@upaya>
A couple years ago on the old Paranet Alpha I read a text file on the
subject of a UFO, if I recall correctly, at Bennington AFB in
Texas.
In that report, written by a former airman, was something to the
effect that after the UFO hovered over the airfield, the
defensive missile emplacements along the runways were discovered
to have been disabled by forces unknown.
A friend visiting one of my housemates told me last night that in
1975, he happened upon a crowd of witnesses to a UFO at a service
station near Bennington, just after it had left, and he recounted
the sheer terror of their reactions to it. He had not heard any
more about the story, as the Air Force had, of course, denied
that anything happened.
I would be greatly indebted to anyone who could find that file
and either post it to the list or email it to me at the address
below, so I can share it with this fellow.
Thanks.
--
-------------- 'Hels' og industri, de gaar haand i haand.'
Tom Betz | -----------------------------------------------------------------
914-375-1510 | marob!upaya!tbetz@phri.nyu.edu betz@marob.uucp%phri.nyu.edu
GBS | {att,philabs,rutgers,cmcl2}!phri!marob!upaya!tbetz
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen)
Subject: Roswell on Phx Radio
Date: 4 Jul 91 06:48:03 GMT
JS> On Thursday, the Fourth of July, at 6AM (yawn!), KFYI's
JS> Mary Ann Watkins will be speaking with Don Schmitt,
JS> co-author of UFO Crash At Roswell. Lt. Walter Haut, who
JS> wrote the famous press release that later had to be
JS> retracted, will be on the air as well, and possibly Dr.
JS> Jesse Marcel, Jr., one of the few people still living who
JS> actually handled the wreckage. Also on hand will be Mike
JS> Stackpole, head of the Phoenix Skeptics, with his own
What..no Phillip Klass?? I'm disappointed :-)
BTW..Did you notice how well Randle handled Klass on "Larry King Live"?
Don
--
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INTERNET: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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