Abduction Digest
Abduction Digest, Number 1
Thursday, February 7th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Hello
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Moderator's Note: Please alias 'abdmod@scicom.alphacdc.com' the mailout
address to 'abduction@scicom.alphacdc.com'
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From: Clark.Matthews@p0.f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: Hello
Date: 30 Jan 91 00:34:00 GMT
Welcome, Dr. Jacobs!
Perhaps one of the things we could use to kick off this echo once again is
the idea of some kind of "regression database", e.g., common observations by
different abductees.
In particular, I`m wondering if any of the regressions have produced
observations of very specific details that are accurate enough for
comparison.
In particular, I understand Budd Hopkins uses recollections of UFO
"writing", which is almost always described as "heiroglyphic". When I
buttonholed him at the 87 MUFON, he said that at least some of his subjects'
recollections agreed in great detail about the
characters/pictographs/ideographs of UFO "control room" writing.
Does this match your experience?
Again, welcome to ParaNet -- I'm looking forward to carrying this echo here
in N.J.
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@p0.f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!abduct
Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com
Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 2
Friday, February 15th 1991
Today's Topics:
Hopkins' writing samples
ParaNet FTP Archive
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From: David.M..Jacobs@p0.f12.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David M. Jacobs)
Subject: Hopkins' writing samples
Date: 10 Feb 91 23:15:17 GMT
You are right, Clark, Hopkins does have a number of writing samples that
are astonishingly similar to each other. Jim Speiser calls these "exoglyphs."
He is going to keep these confidential so that they will provide a good check
on abductee recollections.
I think that a database is certainly the way to go. I would first like to
see some standardization in the way that abductions are investigated so that
the same questions will be asked of everyone (abduction account permitting).
After that the accounts can be plugged into a database and we can see what
correlations there are. Budd and I are making some strides in this area
already./S
--
David M. Jacobs - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.M..Jacobs@p0.f12.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: James Roger Black <jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Subject: ParaNet FTP Archive
Date: 14 Feb 91 20:07:39 GMT
From: James Roger Black <jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu>
An archive of Info-ParaNet back issues is now available for downloading
via anonymous FTP on the Internet.
host name: ftp.uiowa.edu
IP numbers: 128.255.1.3
128.255.64.3
pathname: archives/paranet/infopara
Back issues are stored by number, from 001 to through 365; only number
020 is missing. Some early issues are combined (e.g., 001-004). The
files are stored as straight text, so there is no need for decompression
or decoding software on your local host.
Future issues of the Newsletter will be added as they are published.
Issues of the new ParaNet Abductions Digest will also be made available
as they come out, under 'archives/paranet/abduct'.
This archive is being provided as a public service to FidoNet and the
ParaNet Information Service. Its presence on a University of Iowa host
should not be construed as constituting an endorsement of either
organization or of the contents of the archive. Responsibility for all
statements made and information provided in the archive remains with
the original authors and/or the distributing organizations.
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!abduct
Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com
Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 3
Friday, February 22nd 1991
Today's Topics:
new to network
New To Network
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From: Wade.Kendall@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Wade Kendall)
Subject: new to network
Date: 22 Feb 91 02:49:00 GMT
Hi. I am new to this network and was referred to this BBS by a
co-worker of Budd Hopkins. She felt that my experience should be
shared with other people who were more open to what I had to say. Not
every one here in New Mexico believes in possible abductions. I work
as a Registered Nurse and my experience happened 15 years ago while I
was working on my first degree in Socorro, N.M. If anyone is
interested in hearing about it, or giving me their opinions on it just
leave a message for me and I will get back to you.
Thanks!
--
Wade Kendall - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Wade.Kendall@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@f4.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: New To Network
Date: 22 Feb 91 03:23:00 GMT
> Hi. I am new to this network and was referred to this
> BBS by a co-worker of Budd Hopkins. She felt that my
> experience should be shared with other people who were
> more open to what I had to say. Not every one here
> in New Mexico believes in possible abductions. I work
> as a Registered Nurse and my experience happened 15
> years ago while I was working on my first degree in
> Socorro, N.M. If anyone is interested in hearing
> about it, or giving me their opinions on it just leave
> a message for me and I will get back to you.
By all means, please share it with us.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f4.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com
Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 4
Monday, March 11th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Welcome
Re: Tesla & Tau Ceti
Re: Appointment
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From: Wade.Kendall@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Wade Kendall)
Subject: Re: Welcome
Date: 28 Feb 91 04:44:00 GMT
Thanks for the welcome. I will be uploading a file to Paranet
concerning my possible abduction. Michael Corbin says he will post it
to the generl libraries, take a look at it and let me know your opinion
on it. Budd Hopkins is aware of it and thought it might warrant
further consideration.
Again, thanks for the welcome.
Wade
--
Wade Kendall - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Wade.Kendall@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Tesla & Tau Ceti
Date: 11 Mar 91 04:18:00 GMT
Hello Clark, just looking at this board for e first time tonight on
march 10 & saw your message. I donn't know why the name Tau Ceti came
to me--it was last yea in March. I just woke up saying the words
over and over. I thoug Tau Ceti sounded Egyptian. I didn't even
know the correct elling (tah setti sounded good enough at the me).
Finally, I asked my husband abouit and he said it sounded ke one
of the stars in the stellation Cetus to him. He had a dusty old
astronomy book from 1953. Sure enough, there it was. Later I learned
that Marjorisher listed Tau Ceti as one of the planets in that star
drawing Betty Hill did. I freaked a That's all I know. Write
again on the Ariz. Paranet. (602) 994-9882.
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Re: Appointment
Date: 11 Mar 91 07:48:00 GMT
Linda Bird writes:
> for words...I don't understand the connectio Tau Ceti, do
> you?--- ZMailQ 1.10 @9:1012/0.0 * Origin: ParaNet(sm)
Maybe they wanted you to get in touch with me! <g>
Actually, Tau Ceti has come up in a number of cases, including
the Betty & Barney Hill case. (It was depicted in their star
map.)
Also the IRAS (infared astronomical sat.) had Tau Ceti included
in its survey of stars that may have orbiting planets or
protoplanets. It seems like a good candidate and its only about
12 light years away.
-- John
--
John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!abduct
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Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 5
Monday, March 18th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Tesla & Tau Ceti
1991: A Space Oddity
hypnotherapist needed for Oregon abductee
Appointment
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From: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: Tesla & Tau Ceti
Date: 12 Mar 91 01:24:00 GMT
Hi Linda.
Well, I've read a bit about Nicola Tesla and his contemporaries and
inventions, but I haven't run across anything that indicates Tesla
was receiving signals from Tau Ceti. He did say many times that he
was receiving scalar-electromagnetic signals from either the moon or
Mars, however. It's a touchy subject, because we still don't have
especially good scalar sensing equipment. So it's hard to verify.
Tesla wasn't the only one to feel he was getting stray signals from
space, you know. Marconi's people in England felt the same way and
took elaborate steps to try to intercept more signals.
I have a file around here somewhere that describes some of the
efforts made at Marconi's English research facility in the 1920s.
Tesla, as far as I know, never got the funding to attempt to detect
the source of his "signals".
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: 1991: A Space Oddity
Date: 13 Mar 91 04:55:00 GMT
Hi again, Linda. Just found a very interesting file by an
astronomer re: Constructions observed on the Moon. I'll advise you
of the file name & make it available on ParaNet & KeelyNet when it's
typed up.
There have been many such observations over the last 100 years,
often lasting several months. In fact, a famous Mexican astronomer
observed disks traveling against the face of the moon over 100 years
ago! Moreover, similar constructions pop up time & again, like
prefabs.
I'll let you know the file name.
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: hypnotherapist needed for Oregon abductee
Date: 14 Mar 91 03:15:00 GMT
Anyone knowing of a reputable hynotherapist in the Newport, Oregon area
please post a message for Sheldon Wernikoff.
I have been corresponding with a woman who has experienced very extensive
periods of missing time over the past ten years, and is now wishing to
explore further.
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose)
Subject: Appointment
Date: 15 Mar 91 08:09:27 GMT
LB> hELLO jOHN, Just received your messaged tonight, 3/30/91. Thanks
LB> for words...I don't understand the connectio Tau Ceti, do you?
Ahh...I see our 'Future Message Generator' is once again working. :-)
--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!abduct
Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com
Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 6
Sunday, March 24th 1991
Today's Topics:
Appointment
Re: 1991: A Space Oddity
Re: 1991: A Space Oddity
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moderator's Note: Our Domain address is broken at this time so please use these
internet type address to submit from the internet( UUCP address is as before):
abduct%scicom@boulder.colorado.edu or abduct%scicom@ncar.ucar.edu
WE hope to have the mx records corrected during this week
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Appointment
Date: 19 Mar 91 14:34:00 GMT
> LB> hELLO jOHN, Just received your messaged tonight, 3/30/91. Thanks
> LB> for words...I don't understand the connectio Tau Ceti, do you?
>
>
> Ahh...I see our 'Future Message Generator' is once again working. :-)
Musta been cross posted from Predictions....<grin>
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: 1991: A Space Oddity
Date: 21 Mar 91 00:53:00 GMT
ClarK, I got your message form Mar 12 about oddities on the moon (or
the odd moon, hee hee) and I'd love to see those files.
The first book I saw that mentioned signals from Tau Ceti was "The
Interrupted Journey" by John Fuller. On pg 9 and 60, I think. Then at
last year's MUFON mtg in Pensacola, I bumped into a booklet called THE
ZETA RETICULI INCIDENT; it contains reprints of articles mentioning
stars which might have planets, plus info on B & B Hill, etc.
Sorry it has taken so long to answer--hubby had our confuser loaded
up with a tax program! Bye, and as we say in Arizona, "Hasta la Taco."
LINDA
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Graham@p0.f13.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Graham)
Subject: Re: 1991: A Space Oddity
Date: 21 Mar 91 04:33:04 GMT
* Message sent by Clark Matthews on 12 Mar 91 to Linda Bird:
>of the file name & make it available on ParaNet & KeelyNet when it's
>typed up.
Clark, could you tell me more about "KeelyNet"?
Thanks,
-Jim
--
Jim Graham - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Graham@p0.f13.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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Submissions DOMAIN abduct%scicom@ncar.ucar.edu
Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 7
Friday, April 5th 1991
Today's Topics:
KeelyNet & Vangard Sciences Foundation
Continuum
Submit your articles!
Abduction research
A peculiar dream
Re: Continuum
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From: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: KeelyNet & Vangard Sciences Foundation
Date: 1 Apr 91 07:47:00 GMT
>
> Clark, could you tell me more about "KeelyNet"?
>
> Thanks,
> -Jim
Hi Jim. KeelyNet is a BBS in Texas dedicated to the ideas of John
Keely and other, similar free-energy pioneers. Other BBSs of
similar description are the Tesla BBS and the Cheyenne Mountain BBS.
And my own humble Wrong Number BBS, 201-451-3063.
I have all the KeelyNet files here, feel free to download 'em or
FREQ the files list.
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Continuum
Date: 2 Apr 91 06:17:00 GMT
*** P a r a N e t C O N T I N U U M ***
Continues ...
CONTINUUM is back!
ParaNet's newsletter of UFOlogy, online communications, paranormal
studies and research is resuming publication.
An exciting forum for an array of interests -- and a handy resource
for finding:
-- Current UFO events and symposia
-- Computer bulletin boards
-- Study groups
-- Contact groups
-- Researchers and research organizations
-- Writers and more.
Complimentary copies of CONTINUUM's premiere issue will be available
to ParaNet participants and other interested parties for the price of
postage.
Thereafter, CONTINUUM will be available by subscription only, mailed
First Class within the U.S. Please inquire via NetMail for more
information and subscription rates, including overseas rates.
Send mail to:
* ParaNet Alpha 1-303-431-8797 -- address echomail to Michael Corbin at
9:9/0 (ParaNet) or
1:104/422 (Fido) or
mcorbin@scicom.alphacdc.com (Internet)
* ParaNet Pi 1-201-451-3063 -- address echomail to Clark Matthews at
9:1012/4 (ParaNet) or
1:107/816 (FidoNet) or
P.O. Box 3934, Jersey City, NJ 07303-3934
* James Roger Black on InterNet at
shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu!jrblack (Internet)
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Submit your articles!
Date: 2 Apr 91 06:23:00 GMT
*** P a r a N e t C O N T I N U U M ***
C A L L F O R S U B M I S S I O N S
CONTINUUM is back!
ParaNet's newsletter of UFOlogy, research, online communications, and
paranormal studies is resuming publication -- and calling for
submissions.
We are seeking articles of 500 to 3000 words for the premiere issue,
which is scheduled for publication in July 1991.
Publication will be quarterly. Payment will be in copies.
*** S U B M I S S I O N D E A D L I N E ***
May 15, 1991
Send submissions to:
Clark Matthews
The Wrong Number BBS
P.O. Box 3934
Jersey City, NJ 07303-3934
*** E D I T O R I A L S U B M I S S I O N S ***
SUBMIT ANYTHING!
We don't PROMISE to publish it, but if your topic interests you as a
UFO buff, we think it's a safe bet that others in our "circle" will
share your interest.
Science fiction. Science fact. UFO/paranormal history. Scaly-eyed
skepticism. A book review. A television critique. An interview.
The results of your last physics experiment. You name it: If it
interests you, it will probably interest us and your compeers here.
And it's welcome in CONTINUUM.
Registered copyrighted material will be protected but we do assume a
grant of non-exclusive serial rights from you, the author, upon
submission and before delivery of complimentary copies. You must
inform us of other, pending rights sales upon submission.
Likewise, if you submit work-in-progress, your unpublished copyright
will be respected but a grant of non-exclusive serial rights is
expected in exchange for editorial and development work and before the
delivery of complimentary copies. (Heck, we might even improve it!)
*** P L A N N E D T O P I C S ***
Planned articles in the coming issue include:
* The Fatima Enigma
* Online listening post -- best of the ParaNet echoes
* The Philadelphia Experiment: Build It in Your Basement?!
* ParaNet -- 5 years and counting...
* UFO History
* UFO current events
* Handy UFO classifieds
* And more...
*** M A G A Z I N E H I G H L I G H T S ***
* Free classified public notices of:
-- UFO events and symposia
-- Computer bulletin boards
-- Study groups
-- Contact groups
-- Researchers and research organizations
-- Writers and more.
Maximum ad length 40 words, including address and zip code. Dues-
based membership organizations and sponsors of symposia may advertise,
but free classified ads cannot offer anything for sale.
Space for free classifieds is limited, and the offer does not apply to
display advertising. The management reserves the right not to publish
ads.
It's definitely "un-commercial", but we're committed to keeping the
the "bulletin board" concept alive in the UFOlogical community. So we
want CONTINUUM to be a helpful resource for its readers -- just like
ParaNet is for its users. What goes around, comes around, in other
words.
Complimentary copies of CONTINUUM's premiere issue will be available
to ParaNet participants and other interested parties for the price of
postage.
Thereafter, CONTINUUM will be available by subscription only, mailed
First Class within the U.S. Please inquire via NetMail for more
information and subscription rates, including overseas rates.
Best,
Clark Matthews Michael Corbin James Roger Black
Editorial Director System Administrator Contributing Editor
Send netmail to:
* ParaNet Alpha 1-303-431-8797 -- address echomail to Michael Corbin at
9:9/0 (ParaNet) or
1:104/422 (Fido) or
mcorbin@scicom.alphacdc.com (Internet)
* ParaNet Pi 1-201-451-3063 -- address echomail to Clark Matthews at
9:1012/4 (ParaNet) or
1:107/816 (FidoNet) or
P.O. Box 3934, Jersey City, NJ 07303-3934
* James Roger Black on InterNet at
shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu!jrblack (Internet)
--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 3 Apr 91 17:12:00 GMT
* Forwarded from "ParaNet Research"
* Originally from Keith Basterfield
* Originally dated 04-02-91 22:34
A recent issue of the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, 1990;
24:561-565, carries a several page article by Terry Heins, Allison Gray and
Maxine Tennant titled "Persisting hallucinations following childhood sexual
abuse." Thery describe work by an American, Ellenson, who interviewed female
incest survivors. "Careful mental state examinations found that all showed a
post-incest syndrome involving specific disturbances in thought (certain types
of nightmares, obsessions, dissociative experiences and phobias) and in
perception (certain types of illusions and visual and auditory
hallucinations)."..."Commonest were shadowy figures, movements in peripheral
vision, intruder sounds...and inner helper voices..." I see some parallels with
abductees here. As you may be aware Bob Bartholomew
and I have drawn researchers attention to the possible link between
fantasy-prone personality, abductees and childhood abuse. The line of
thinking would go: could lifelong abductions actually be due to childhood
(sexual) abuse (which we believe can trigger multiple personality
disorders), causing a fantasy world creation which is then interpreted by UFO
researchers as of alien abductions? We have challenged researchers to undertake
detailed psychological testing
of abductees to test if they are fantasy-prone, and also suggest the checking
of their childhood for evidence of sexual abuse. I can supply some references
for those interested in further reading on this topic. Comments would be
welcome on this matter.
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: eniac.seas.upenn.edu!snelson
Subject: A peculiar dream
Date: 4 Apr 91 06:30:29 GMT
From: snelson@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Steven Nelson)
When I was young, I'm not certain precisely when, I had a very peculiar
recurring dream:
It was the fourth of July. We had set up fireworks in the backyard,
and my father was holding some sort of barbacue. A number of obviously dream-
like elements mark this as a dream. For example, a pig, which I had treated as
a pet in the dream, was cooked, then came back to life.
I crawled to a neighbor's yard-- a huge, grassy field. I saw flashing
lights coming from the area, which I interpreted as fireworks. As I emerged
from the clearing, I could see that the lights came from a huge UFO, which
hovered over the clearing at approximately treetop level. It was bright and
multicolored. Next I was rising in a beam of light. At the end of the light,
there was a face. After so many years, I can't tell you what the face looked
like, except that the skin was pale, perhaps grey, and the mouth was a slit.
When I saw the face, I would always feel intense terror and wake up.
The oddest part about this whole affair is that I'm CERTAIN that what
I just described was a dream. None of the classic physical signs occurred:
no disturbances in the grass, no peculiar wounds, no midnight nosebleeds,
no notable periods of missing time. At the time, I was pretty sure that I
had gotten it from watching 'Close Encounters' and seeing Star Trek.
Would anyone care to tell me anything about my dream? What is, in
your opinion, the likelihood that visitors abducted me? Or was I just scared
by the fireworks?
-Steve
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From: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Continuum
Date: 4 Apr 91 05:41:00 GMT
Hello Clark! I'd bevery happy to receive THE CONTINUUM. My address:
1154 E. Palmcroft
Tempe, AZ 85252
Are you still planning to put up that file on Moon Oddities, or is it
just that I haven't seen it yet?
The March MUFON UFO Journal (which just came 2 days ago) is
excellent, BTW, if you happen to subscribe. Has an article that
presents a new angle on some "crop circles" in Canada; and an article,
quite lengthy, on an alleged witness to a saucer crash in New Mexico in
1947 - ties in with Roswell.
Don't let the snow get you down. We were at 91 degrees today!
Bye! Linda.
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Abduction Digest, Number 8
Monday, April 8th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Abduction Research
Re: Abduction Research
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Elizabeth.Anderson@p0.f30.n134.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Elizabeth Anderson)
Subject: Re: Abduction Research
Date: 6 Apr 91 04:04:00 GMT
Hello, Jim. I was very interested in your message here about the possible
connection between sexual abuse/abduction claims.
I have been interested for the last few years in the whole 'satanism'
phenomena, and have noticed many parallels between abduction claims and the
claims made by 'satanic ritual child abuse survivors'. I have been
corresponding with Dr. Robert Baker, a professor of psychology at the
University of Kentucky on this subject and he recently suggested that I look
into getting a book called "Sexual Abuse Hysteria: the Salem Witch Trials
revisited" by Richard A. Gardner. You might find this interesting reading as
well.
Are you familiar with a book called 'Anomalistic Psychology' by Zusne and
Jones? It is truly a book every skeptic and every 'believer' should read.
The mind really is a very strange place.
Elizabeth
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Abduction Research
Date: 6 Apr 91 22:03:00 GMT
> Hello, Jim. I was very interested in your message here about the
> possible connection between sexual abuse/abduction claims.
>
Hi, Elizabeth. The message actually wasn't from me, but from Keith
Basterfield, who is a leading UFO and abduction researcher in Australia. It
was Keith who was among the first to suggest such a connection. I cross-posted
the message to Abductions, where I thought it also belonged.
I am familiar with the book you cited, but I have not yet had a chance to pick
it up. Interestingly enough, I am currently involved in researching one
abduction case right now, but sexual abuse does not seem to be a factor, nor
does any childhood trauma. (Please request the file LYDIA331.TXT from my
system for an interim report on the progress of this case.)
I am also familiar with Dr. Baker, having met him briefly in Lincoln, NE in
1988. He impressed me as someone who has long ago made up his mind that
Fantasy Prone Personality is the culprit in abductions, and writes about the
subject with a degree of vitriole and scorn that is quite unbecoming of a
scientist. So far, in the few studies I'm aware of, including one being
conducted by CUFOS as we speak, there is no real indication of a connection
between FPP and abductions. That is not to say that one may not show up in the
future, when a more statistically significant segment of the affected
population has been screened. But it is certainly too early to draw any
conclusions, as Dr. Baker seems to have done.
Jim
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Abduction Digest, Number 9
Friday, April 12th 1991
Today's Topics:
Abduction research
Abduction Research
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tyson.Mitchiner@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tyson Mitchiner)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 8 Apr 91 00:20:00 GMT
> A recent issue of the Australian and New Zealand Journal of
> Psychiatry, 1990;
> 24:561-565, carries a several page article by Terry Heins,
> Allison Gray and Maxine Tennant titled "Persisting
> hallucinations following childhood sexual abuse." Thery
> describe work by an American, Ellenson, who interviewed
> female incest survivors. "Careful mental state examinations
> found that all showed a post-incest syndrome involving
> specific disturbances in thought (certain types of
> nightmares, obsessions, dissociative experiences and phobias)
> and in perception (certain types of illusions and visual and
> auditory hallucinations)."..."Commonest were shadowy figures,
> movements in peripheral vision, intruder sounds...and inner
> helper voices..." I see some parallels with abductees here.
> As you may be aware Bob Bartholomew
> and I have drawn researchers attention to the possible link
> between
> fantasy-prone personality, abductees and childhood abuse.
> The line of
> thinking would go: could lifelong abductions actually be due
> to childhood (sexual) abuse (which we believe can trigger
> multiple personality
> disorders), causing a fantasy world creation which is then
> interpreted by UFO researchers as of alien abductions? We
> have challenged researchers to undertake detailed
> psychological testing
> of abductees to test if they are fantasy-prone, and also
> suggest the checking
> of their childhood for evidence of sexual abuse. I can
> supply some references for those interested in further
> reading on this topic. Comments would be welcome on this
> matter.
(Due to the nature how arguments start here because people jump to
conclusions, I will state here I am not trying to invalidate what
you say.. I just want to see your comments on my comments-)
This link looks moderately plausible, but fails to explain why in
such large numbers, with such repetition, people describe the aliens
as the greys or the blues.. If this link was true, wouldn't such
"shadows" be of different forms, and not being the exact same
description of what they greys and the blues look like? How does
this link explain the missing time, the markings on some people, the
appearance of surgery in the brain area (when the person has never
been recorded having such surgery before), and lastly, but not
least, the other family members who were not abused before but are
affected by the visitations, also?
I do not claim that alien abduction does indeed exist, (it would be
illogical, since I do not have concrete proof of this) but I am very
concerned at the large numbers (not just 50.. but in the thousands)
of people coming out reporting abuction, describing the same beings,
under hypnosis? Hypnosis can yield false results.. but in such a
large numbers? Wouldn't there be many inconsistiencies?
I'm open to listen to any information on this subject, though.. I
am curious about this, and want to know the cause, be it aliens,
hallucinations, etc.
Tyson
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From: Michael.Corbin@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 9 Apr 91 18:40:00 GMT
> This link looks moderately plausible, but fails to explain why in such
> large numbers, with such repetition, people describe the aliens as the
> greys or the blues.. If this link was true, wouldn't such
> "shadows" be of different forms, and not being the exact same
> description of what they greys and the blues look like? How does this
> link explain the missing time, the markings on some people, the
> appearance of surgery in the brain area (when the person has never been
> recorded having such surgery before), and lastly, but not least, the
> other family members who were not abused before but are affected by the
> visitations, also?
While this all sounds good, the data has been sufficiently withheld as to not
permit other qualified persons to examine the data relating to the claims that
you have referenced above. I do not believe that there are really medical
records to back up some of these rumors, therefore we have a lot of claims
without representation. Unfortunately, we must take the word of the so-called
experts to provide us with accurate data. The second part of the problem is
that it has been found that the field of abduction research has been totally
polluted by the mass amount of publicity which it has received together with
complete descriptions of what the "critters" look like. Take for an example,
an issue of Omni magazine some years back featured an article and questionaire
by Dr. Bruce Maccabee and Budd Hopkins soliciting possible abductees. I found
this article to be highly suggestive and would corrupt those answering the
questionaire, thereby seriously compromising the data. Let us not forget the
wide distribution that Omni enjoys. Secondly, the nationally televised
program, "UFO Cover-UP? Live!" aired October, 1988 also highly publicized the
portrait of what these critters might look like. The problem thusly lies with
how much of the data is good and how much is totally corrupt?
> I do not claim that alien abduction does indeed exist, (it would be
> illogical, since I do not have concrete proof of this) but I am very
> concerned at the large numbers (not just 50.. but in the thousands) of
> people coming out reporting abuction, describing the same beings, under
> hypnosis? Hypnosis can yield false results.. but in such a large
> numbers? Wouldn't there be many inconsistiencies?
> I'm open to listen to any information on this subject, though.. I am
> curious about this, and want to know the cause, be it aliens,
> hallucinations, etc.
This is a very good point, however we do not have sufficient data to determine
what the norm is for people who might fall under the Fantasy Prone. In a
studies done with abduction research, it was found that there were striking
consistencies between non-abductees and abductees in their descriptions of
what takes place during an abduction experience. There is not enough data to
answer the why of this yet, but it is being studied.
Mike
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Abduction Digest, Number 10
Thursday, April 25th 1991
Today's Topics:
Abduction Research
Abduction Research
Abduction Research
Rima Laibow
INFO: Clinical Analysis of UFO Abductions
Rima Laibow (2)
Rima Laibow (3)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 14 Apr 91 17:44:00 GMT
> > This is a very good point, however we do not have sufficient
> > data to determine what the norm is for people who might fall
> > under the Fantasy Prone. In a studies done with abduction
> > research, it was found that there were striking consistencies
> > between non-abductees and abductees in their descriptions of
> > what takes place during an abduction experience. There is
> > not enough data to answer the why of this yet, but it is
> > being studied.
> >
> > Mike
>
> Ok.. let me know what new information on this subject comes out.
>
> Regarding non-abductees and abductees, I'm sure that there would be some
> that, upon reading those abduction stories, would attempt to believe a
> fantasy that they were abductees also.
>
> However, there have been many cases where people actually denied and
> tried to hide the fact that they were being abducted.. and still were
> unbeleiving when hypnosis revealed what happened. It doesn't sound like
> a fad or someone looking for fame...
I do not deny that there is a possibility that there are abduction cases,
however I feel that the time has come that we should re-evaluate our
methodology and investigation practices at how we come down to researching
these. I am very much against anyone performing any work on abductees without
having the medical credentials for both attempting to find out what happened
and for dealing with the victim following the traumatic experience. I would
say that the damage done by well-meaning UFOlogists to the victims could be
potentially worse after the experience than the actual experience itself.
Mike
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From: Tyson.Mitchiner@p2.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tyson Mitchiner)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 17 Apr 91 23:01:07 GMT
MC> I do not deny that there is a possibility that there are
MC> abduction cases, however I feel that the time has come that we
MC> should re-evaluate our methodology and investigation practices at
MC> how we come down to researching these. I am very much against
MC> anyone performing any work on abductees without having the
MC> medical credentials for both attempting to find out what happened
MC> and for dealing with the victim following the traumatic
MC> experience. I would say that the damage done by well-meaning
MC> UFOlogists to the victims could be potentially worse after the
MC> experience than the actual experience itself.
MC> Mike
I agree with you... How do you plan to evaluate those investigation pratices?
I feel that we aren't doing enough to investigate the abduction phenomenon. It
seems all the investigation is done by amateurs, etc. without a real serious
investigation into the abduction phenomenon by experts (by experts I mean
people who are dedicated to discovering the facts, and not jumping to
conclusions or opinions).
However, it won't be easy to establish this. Maybe over time, we can
sufficiently persuade the government, etc. for a serious scientific study into
this.
Tyson
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 21 Apr 91 17:33:00 GMT
> I agree with you... How do you plan to evaluate those investigation
> pratices?
I would say that several steps need to be taken. Chiefly, we should get
medical professionals invovled who can establish standards and controls to be
used for the investigation of abductions. Despite the negative inference
that credible scientific people will shy away from this subject, there are
those out there with enough medical/scientific savvy to take a serious look
at this aspect. Secondly, the victims of alleged abductions should be
treated exactly as anyone would suffering from a traumatic stress disorder.
I do not believe that abductees should be treated special as this tends to
stigmatize their emotional state as it is following such trauma. Support
groups are a negative reinforcement since it amplifies the inability to
explain what is going on with abductions. Vallee makes a very good point in
that he does not believe that we should be reinforcing and attempting to
infuse an abduction experience into the abductees' perception of reality
since there is not enough data to support what in fact actually happens. As
he puts it, it is like trying to force a square through a hole. How true!
> I feel that we aren't doing enough to investigate the abduction
> phenomenon.. It seems all the investigation is done by amateurs, etc.
> without a real serious investigation into the abduction phenomenon by
> experts (by experts I mean people who are dedicated to discovering the
> facts, and not jumping to conclusions or opinions).
I fully agree. However, we have an incredible amount of work to do. First,
we must undo the damage that is being done right now. Qualified people
looking in are not impressed at the happenings within our community. They
see literally thousands of people alleging this type of encounter, and they
see unqualiifed people regressing victims and the whole thing breaks down.
Charges fly that the quality of the data is seriously compromised by people
unqualified to do hypnosis and that the whole subject is so saturated with
preconceived notions that the signal to noise ration is way off the scale.
This is sad, but true. I refer to an article which appeared in an OMNI
magazine some years back which was authored by Budd Hopkins and Bruce
Maccabee. This article was highly suggestive and seemed to start the flood
of abduction reports coming in. It surveyed people who may have been
abducted by proposing symptoms of missing time, etc. The person was
encouraged to fill out the questionaire and mail it in.
To get at the idea of establishing standards, I feel that one place to look
would be to review the transcripts and records of Betty and Barney Hill.
This could be considered to be the first abduction experience that was
critically studied by a qualified medical doctor, Benjamin Simon. Simon had
no preconceived ideas about abductions or UFOs. There are other things that
will be useful that will come about from qualified studies. There is some
very good research going on with CUFOS (J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
Studies). I understand that results and findings will be released shortly.
Thomas Bullard has also done some good research work on this which can be
found in the 1989 Journal for UFO Studies, published by CUFOS. I can get you
a mailing address if you want to inquire further about it.
All in all, we have a responsibility to the victims first and foremost to get
them qualified help. The relief from the stressful emotions should occur
first with an emphasis on the actual experience coming secondarily. We also
should publicly denounce unqualified investigators from having anything to do
with abductees. The data should be available to the investigator, instead of
the witness being available to the investigator. In this, we might get
somewhere with this important study. This is not to say that should some
educational program be initiated for investigators, that there could not be
involvement, but until that happens, I feel that the best policy would be as I
mention above.
> However, it won't be easy to establish this. Maybe over time,
> we can sufficiently persuade the government, etc. for a serious scientific
> study into this.
I advocate that we conduct all of our research within the civilian
scientific/research community for the time being. We need an organized effort
on a global scale. This can be achieved with our current resources if we can
pool them effectively. We will just have to see.
Thanks for your post.
Mike
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From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm)
Subject: Rima Laibow
Date: 20 Apr 91 07:42:00 GMT
(1773) Wed 17 Apr 91 7:51p Rcvd: Wed 17 Apr 8:40p
By: Uucp, ParaNet(sm) Information Servi (104/422)
To: Michael Corbin
Re: "Clinical Analysis of UFO Abductions" - a report
From: ked01@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn)
[ I'm sending this to the "abduct-request" address, as all attempts
to get email thru to "scicom.alphacdc.com" or "scicom" result in
bounces. Please forward if you have a working address ... Thanks!
/kim ]
The attached was recently posted to the indicated USENET newsgroups.
I thought it might be worth including in a future Abduction Digest,
but as the poster says ... it is not "light reading".
/kim /\oo__
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From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: INFO: Clinical Analysis of UFO Abductions
Date: 10 Apr 91 02:02:45 GMT
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
What follows is a report given on the Psychiatry and evaluation of
UFO abducted victims by RIMA E. LAIBOW, M.D. This report is not
considered "light" reading.
As usual, my *disclaimer* will be to read and make up your own mind :-)
------ Begin Included Text --------------------------------------------
RIMA E. LAIBOW, M.D.
Child and Adult Psychiatry
Cerridwen
13 Summit Terrace
Dobbs' Ferry, NY 10522
(914)693-3081
CLINICAL DISCREPANCIES BETWEEN EXPECTED AND OBSERVED DATA IN PATIENTS
REPORTING UFO ABDUCTIONS: IMPLICATIONS FOR TREATMENT
ABSTRACT: IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THIS PAPER MAKES NO ATTEMPT TO ASSIGN OR
WITHHOLD EXTERNAL VALIDITY RELATIVE TO UFO ABDUCTION SCENARIOS.
Patients who believe themselves to be UFO abductees are a
heterogeneous group widely dispersed along demographic and cultural lines.
Careful examination of these patients and their abduction reports presents
four areas of significant discrepancy between expected and observed data.
Implications for the treatment of patients presenting UFO abduction
scenarios are discussed.
INTRODUCTION
If a patient were to confide to a therapist that he had been abducted
by aliens who took him aboard a UFO and performed a series of medical
procedures and examinations on him it is not likely that the patient would
find either a receptive ear or a respectful and non-judgemental response from
the therapist. The material presented would lie so far outside the confines
of our personal and cultural belief system that it would seem intolerably
anomalous to most of us. We would probably dismiss or repudiate it using a
few comfortable and familiar assumptions which hold so much obvious wisdom
that they do not require specific examination.
When events which are too anomalous to allow their incorporation
into our world schema are presented to us, we are likely to dismiss them
by using assumptions based in out currently operative world view. This
effectively precludes the open evaluation of the anomaly. Hence, the
"expressible" response of most clinical and lay individuals upon hearing a UFO
abduction account would be an immediate dismissal of even the possibility that
such an episode might occur. Close upon the heels of that determination the
rapid and complete pathologization of the person offering such an account
would follow. Dream states, suggestibility, poor reality testing, outright
dissembling or frank psychosis are customarily offered and accepted as evident
and reasonable organizing models by which the production of this material may
be understood. These are typical maneuvers by which the presentation of
information which challenges schematic assumptions is dismissed or screened
out before the assumptions can be adequately tested for predictive reliability
and accuracy. Such testing is highly desirable, however, because it offers
us the opportunity to apply the scientific method to our current level of
theorital sophistication and thereby refine our understanding of reality
further still. Of course, this process is severely impeded when the new data
is excluded from consideration strictly because it is too anomalous for
assessment.
<Continued in next message..>
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From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm)
Subject: Rima Laibow (2)
Date: 20 Apr 91 07:43:00 GMT
<<Continued from previous message>>
Westrum has offered a model by which events become "hidden" and
therefore remain anomalous to the perception of society in a circular
process: the hidden event is disbelieved and its disbelief helps to keep it
hidden. Citing the lengthy period during which battered children and their
battering parents remained hidden, Westrum states:
"An event is hidden if its occurrence is so implausible
that those who observe it hesitate to report it because
they do not expect to be believed. The implausibility
may cause the observer to doubt his own perceptions,
leading to the event's denial or mis identification.
Should the observer nonetheless make a report, he/she
can expect to be treated with incredulity or even
ridicule. Since the existence of a hidden event is
contrary to what science, society, and perhaps even
the observer believes, the event remains hidden because
of strong social forces which interfere with
reporting. The actual degree of underreporting is
sometimes difficult to believe, a skepticism which
itself acts as a deterrent to taking seriously
those reports which do surface." (1)
But for the clinician who spends a moment before reaching these
"obvious" and "intuitive" conclusions, several fascinating and potentially
productive questions present themselves. If we refrain for a short period
from dismissing this material out-of-hand, we find that there are at least
four areas of puzzling and important discrepancy between our intuitive sense
of order and the data presented by the patient. These discrepancies force us
to re-examine our assumptions in light of a demonstrated failure of the theory
to account for the observed phenomena. This process, while taxing and
challenging, is nonetheless, the way we systemize our understanding of human
health and pathology. Noting the previously un-noted and using it to refine
our conceptual framework leads to better prediction and therefore to better
treatment.
It is not the purpose of this paper to ascribe relative reality to the
experience of abduction reported by some patients. Rather, precisely because
it lies outside the realm of clinical expertise to assess with certainty
whether these events actually occurred or if they are mere fantasy, it is
mandatory for the clinician to examine the impact of these experiences,
whatever their source, upon the patient. This must be done in a clear sighted
and open-minded fashion so that the impact of the experiences may be dealt
with rather than made into hidden events.
AREAS OF DISCREPANCY
1. ABSENCE OF MAJOR PSYCHOPATHOLOGY: It is intuitively
seductive (and perhaps comfortable) for us to assume that psychotic-level
functioning will necessarily be present in a person claiming to be a UFO
abductee. If this level of distortion and delusion is present, a patient
would be expected to demonstrate some other evidence of reality distortion.
Pathology of this magnitude would not be predicted to be present in a well
integrated, mature and non-psychotic individual. Instead, we would expect
clinical and psychometric tools to reveal serious problems in numerous areas
both inter- and interpersonally. It would be highly surprising if otherwise
well-functioning persons were to demonstrate a single area of floridly
psychotic distortion. Further, if this single idea fix were totally
circumscribed, non-invasive and discrete, that in itself would be highly
anomalous. Well-developed, fixed delusional states with numerous
elaborated and sequential components are not seen in otherwise healthy
individuals. Prominent evidence of deep dysfunction would be expected to
pervade many areas of the patient's life. One would predict that if the
abduction experience were the product of delusional or other psychotic states,
it would be possible to detect such evidence through the clinical and
psychometric tools available to us.
This points to the first important discrepancy: individuals
claiming alien abduction frequently show no evidence of past or present
psychosis, delusional thinking, reality-testing deficits, hallucinations or
other significant psychopathology despite extensive clinical evaluation.
Instead, there is a conspicuous absence of psychopathology of the magnitude
necessary to account for the production of floridly delusional and presumably
psychotic material.(2)
In order to test this startling and anomalous information, a group of
subjects who believe they have been abducted by aliens (9, 5 male, 4 female)
were asked to participate in a psychometric evaluation. An experienced
clinical psychologist carried out an investigation using projection tests
(Rorschach, TAT, Draw a Person and the MMPI) and the Wechler Adult
Intelligence Scale. The examining clinician was told "the subjects were being
evaluated to determine similarities and differences in personality structure,
as well as psychological strengths and weaknesses". All of the subjects
actively refrained from sharing UFO-related experiences with the examiner and
she was unaware of this theme in their lives.
The investigator found that commonalties were not strongly present and
that:
"while the subjects are quite heterogeneous in their
personality styles, there is a modicum of homogeneity
in several respects: (1) relatively high intelligence
with concomitant richness of inner life; (2) relative
weakness in the sense of identity, especially sexual
identity; (3) concomitant vulnerability in the inter-
personal realm; (4) a certain orientation towards
alertness which is manifest alternately in a certain
perceptual sophistication and awareness or in inter-
personal hyper-vigilance and caution.... Perhaps the
most obvious and prominent impression left by the
nine subjects is the range of personality styles
the present.... There is little to unite them as a
group from the standpoint of the overt manifestations
of their personalities.... They [are] very distinctive
unusual and interesting subjects. [But] "Along with
above average intelligence, richness in mental life,
and indications of narcissistic identity disturbance,
the nine subjects also share some degree of impair-
ment in personal relationships. For [some] subjects,
problems in intimacy are manifest more in great
sensitivity to injury and loss than in lack of
intimacy and relatedness. [Ad] "...The last salient
dimension of impairment in the interpersonal realm
relates to a certain mildly paranoid and disturbing
streak in many of the subjects, which renders them
very wary and cautious about involving themselves
with others. It is significant that all but one of
the subjects had modest elevations on the MMPI paranoia
scale relative to their other scores. Such modest
elevations mean that we are not dealing with blatant
paranoid symptomology but rather over-sensitivity,
defensiveness and fear of criticism and susceptibility
to feeling pressured. To summarize, while this is a
heterogeneous group in terms of overt personality style,
it can be said that most of its members share being
rather unusual and very interesting. They also share
brighter than average intelligence and a certain rich-
ness of inner life that can operate favorably in terms
of creativity or disadvantageously to the extent that
it can be overwhelming. Shared underlying emotional
factors include a degree of identity disturbance, some
deficits in the interpersonal sphere, and generally
mild paranoia phenomena (hypersensitivity, wariness,
etc.)" (3)
<Continued in next message..>
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From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm)
Subject: Rima Laibow (3)
Date: 20 Apr 91 07:43:00 GMT
<<<Continued from previous message>>>
Her findings demonstrate a uniform lack of the significant
psychopathology which would be necessary to account for these experiences if
abduction experiences do represent the psychotic or delusional states
predicted by current theory.
When the examiner was informed of the true reason for the selection of
the subjects for this evaluation (i.e., their shared belief that they had been
exposed to alien abductions), she wrote an addendum to the original report re-
examining the findings of the testing in the light of the new data. In it she
states:
"The first and most critical question is whether our
subjects' reported experiences could be accounted
for strictly on the basis of psychopathy, i.e., mental
disorder. The answer is a firm no. In broad terms,
if the reported abductions were confabulated fantasy
productions, based on what we know about psychological
disorders, they could only have come from pathological
liars, paranoid schizophrenics, and severely disturbed
and extraordinarily rare hysteroid characters subject
to fugue states and/or multiple personality shifts...
It is important to note that not one of the subjects,
based on test data, falls into any of these categories.
Therefore, while testing can do nothing to prove the
veracity of the UFO abduction reports, one can conclude
that the test findings are not inconsistent with the
possibility that reported UFO abductions have, in fact,
occurred. In other words, there is no apparent
psychological explanation for their reports." (4)
2. CONCORDANCE OF REPORTED DATA: The second point of
intriguing discrepancy follows from this surprising absence of evidence
of a common thread of severe and reality-distorting psychopathology to
account for the patient's bizarre assertions. They claim that they have
been abducted, sometimes repeatedly over nearly the whole course of their
lives, by aliens who have communicated with them and carried out procedures
much like medical examinations. Persons reporting these experiences are seen
to be psycho-dynamically varied. They are also demographically varied.
Reports of this basic scenario, numbering in the hundreds, have now been
recorded. Even though the reporters range from individuals as diverse as a
mestizo Brazilian farmer(5),an American corporate lawyer (6), and a Mid-
Western minister(7), there is a perplexing and intriguing concordance of
features in these reports. Certain details of the scenarios repeat themselves
with disturbing regularity no matter what the educational, national, social,
experiential or other demographic characteristics of the reporter. In the
production of dreams, reveries, poetry, fantasies and psychotic states, while
the general themes of concern may be identified easily between individuals,
the specific symbolization, concretion, abstraction and representation of
those themes is relatively indiosyncratic for each individual. This of course
necessitates careful empathic and attentive listening on the clinician's part
to gather both the general flavor and specific meaning of the elements of the
fantasy state. This careful listening often means that a personal symbolic
representational system can be unraveled and its contents can be rendered less
mysterious to the patient. In the abduction scenarios however, both specific
details and themes repeat themselves with surprising regularity: In general,
the appearance and modus operandi of the aliens, their effect and procedures,
their tools and interests, their crafts and physical features all tally from
report to report with a high rate of concordance. (8,9,10) This intriguing
fact seems impervious to the socio-economic, educational, national, or
cultural background of the abductee. Similarly, whether the individual has
had previous contact with the literature of abduction seems to make little
difference in this vein since the reports of individuals who can be shown to
have had no exposure to abduction literature also contains these common
features. Skilled practitioners and investigators report in these cases that
they are convinced that each of these subjects was being wholly truthful in
his/her report.
The concordance of both content and event in these reports makes
them unlike any other fantasy-generated material with which I am familiar.
Indeed, investigators like Hopkins and others claim they have intentionally
withheld dissemination of certain important, frequently reported aspects of
the abduction scenarios in order to provide a "check" on the material being
presented to them by individuals who may have had access to this literature
since abductees may have been influenced at either the conscious or the
unconscious level by it. In these cases as well, the features which have
previously been published as well as those withheld are both produced by the
abductee (11). In instances in which the patient has read some of the
abductee literature, this previously withheld material may be offered to the
investigator with a sense of personal invalidation, apology and embarrassment.
He often expresses concern that this information is less likely to be
believed than the other material with which he is already familiar. (12)
Jung and others have written widely about the use of archetypes
and the collective awareness of themes and images which are asserted to
present themselves in a world-wide and multi-personal way. The amount of
individual variation and creative latitude demonstrated within the closed
system of archetypes and collected creativity is vast. Those who pose such
universals detect their presence in the complex and highly idiosyncratic
presentations and guises which they are given by the unconscious mind of the
patient and the artist. This disguise is idiosyncratic, they hold, precisely
because a set of available images is being used to work and rework the
personal realities of the individual against the background of the collective.
But the abductee does not seem to be involved in the reworking of personal
mythologies against the canvas of the race's mythology. The details and
contents of the scenarios seem, upon extensive investigation, to bear little
thematic relevance to the issues inherent in the life of the abductee.
Intensive follow up investigation frequently yields no thematic, archetypical,
primary process symbolic meaning to the shape or activities of the abductors
and the scenario of the abduction itself. Instead, therapeutic work in these
cases centers around the issues inherent in the powerlessness and
vulnerability of the individual even is this were not a prominent theme in his
life before the putative abduction. In other words, the customary richness of
association and creativity found in the examination of dreams and other
fantasy material is lacking with regard to the scenario and presentation of
the aliens who abduct and manipulate the patient in the abduction story.
<Continued in next message..>
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Abduction Digest, Number 11
Thursday, April 25th 1991
Today's Topics:
Rima Laibow (4)
Rima Laibow (Conclusion)
Lebow.txt
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm)
Subject: Rima Laibow (4)
Date: 20 Apr 91 07:44:00 GMT
<<<<Continued from previous message>>>>
If the abduction material is indeed archetypal or fantasy generated in
nature, this is a new class of archetypes. These archetypes demand rather
exact representation and mythic presentation since the activities and behavior
of the aliens is rather invariant within a narrow latitude regardless of the
other dream and fantasy themes of the patient.
3. ABDUCTION SCENARIOS AND HYPNOSIS. Members of both the lay and
professional communities frequently assume that material referring to UFO
abduction scenarios is retrieved under hypnosis. Since it is generally
believed that people under hypnosis are open to the implantation of
suggestions through the overt or covert influence of the hypnotist it is
concluded that this material reproduces the hypnotists' expectations or
interests. It is further concluded that since the hypnotist "put it there"
the abduction could not be accounted for as material which emerges solely from
the patient's end of dyad.
Thus, the abduction scenarios are commonly dismissed as merely representing
the production of desired material by compliant subjects. The abductees strong
sense of personal conviction that this really happened to him during the
session itself and upon recall of the session is similarly dismissed as an
artifact of the process by which the fantasies were generated.
Several compelling factors mitigate against the facile dismissal of
data in this way. Firstly, about 20% of these highly concordant abduction
scenarios are available spontaneously at the level of conscious awareness
prior to hypnosis. (13,14) These accounts may be enhanced or subjected to
further elaboration through the use of hypnosis or other recall enhancement
techniques, but in a significant number of people producing abduction
scenarios the recall is initially produced without recourse to such
techniques. If their stories were substantially different from the concordant
abduction scenarios produced under regressive hypnosis, a different phenomenon
would be taking place.
However, given the perplexing clinical presentation of similar stories
from dissimilar people who are uninformed about one another's experience, this
presents another highly interesting area of discrepancy.
Hopkins has classified patterns of abduction recall into five
categories:
Type 1. patients consciously recall parts of the full abduction
scenario without hypnotic or other techniques designed to aid recall. The
emergence of this material may be delayed.
Type 2. patients recall the UFO sighting, surrounding circumstances
and/or aliens, but do not recall the abduction itself. Only a perceived gap in
time indicates any anomalous occurrence.
Type 3. patients recall a UFO and/or hominids but nothing else.
There is no sense of time lapse or dislocation.
Type 4. patients recall only a time lapse or dislocation. No UFO
abduction scenario is recalled without the use of specific retrieval
techniques.
Type 5. patients recall noting relating to UFO or abduction
scenarios. Instead they experience discrepant emotions ranging from uneasy
suspicions that "something happened to me" to intense, ego-dystonic fears of
specific locations, conditions or actions. They may also exhibit unexplained
physical wounds and/or recurring dreams of abduction scenario content which
are not fixed in their experience as to place and time. (15)
Examination of the transcripts of hypnotic sessions which yield
abduction material reveals that although subjects are sufficiently
suggestible to enter the trance state as directed by the therapist, they
resist having material "injected" into their account. They customarily
refuse to be "lead" or distracted by the therapist's attempts to change
either the focus or content of their report. The subject characteristically
insists upon correcting errors or distortions suggested or implied by the
hypnotist during the session. Hence it is difficult to account for the
similarities and concordances of these scenarios through the mechanism of
suggestibility when these subjects so steadfastly refuse to be lead by
hypnotists.
In fact, it is even more striking that while these patients feel the
material which they are producing both in and out of hypnosis as
experientially "real", nonetheless they frequently seek to discount or
explain away this bizarre and frightening material. This remains true even
though sharing it regularly results in a significant remission of anxiety-
related symptoms and discomfort. These abduction scenarios are so ego-alien
that they have frequently not shared the material with anyone at all or with
only a highly select group of trusted intimates. In the vast preponderance of
cases patients are reluctant to allow themselves to be publicly identified as
having had these experiences since the perceive that the abduction scenario is
so highly anomalous that they expect to experience ridicule and repudiation if
they become associated with it publicly. It therefore functions like a guilty
secret in the way that rape has (and, unfortunately still does in some cases).
<Concluded in next message..>
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From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm)
Subject: Rima Laibow (Conclusion)
Date: 20 Apr 91 07:45:00 GMT
<<<<<Continued from previous message>>>>>
After the material is produced and explored, these subjects often
experience a marked degree of relief. This is true with reference both to
previously identified symptomatic behaviors and other anxiety manifestations
not noted on initial assessment. These other symptoms may remit after
enhanced recall of the scenario and its details takes place. It is
interesting to note that while the scenarios may contain a good deal of highly
traumatic material specifically related to reproductive functioning, these
episodes are nearly uniformly free of subjective erotic charge when either the
manifest or latent contents are examined.
4. POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER (PTSD) IN THE ABSENCE OF
EXTERNAL TRAUMA: PTSD was first described in the content of battle
fatigue (16). Although it may present in a wide variety of clinical guises
(17) PTSD is currently understood as a disorder which occurs in the context of
intolerable externally induced trauma which floods the victim with anxiety
and/or depression when his overwhelmed and paralyzed ego defenses prove
inadequate to the task of organizing unbearably stressful events. In the
service of the patient's urgent attempt to still the tides of disorganizing
anxiety, fear or guilt<18> which accompany the emergence of cognitive, sensory
or emotional recall of these traumatic events, the trauma itself may be
either partly or completely unavailable to conscious recall. <19>...Both
physical and psychological responses to the trauma are profound and pervasive.
PTSD follows overwhelming real-life trauma and is not known to present as a
sequel to internally generated fantasy states.<20>
This fourth area of discrepancy between predicted and observed data is
perhaps the most striking and challenging. Patients who produce alien
abduction material in the absence of psycopathology severe enough to account
for it often show the clinical picture of PTSD. This is remarkable when one
considers that it is possible that no traumatic event occured except that
rooted only in fantasy. These trauma are, in large measure, split off, denied
and repressed as they are in other occurrences of PTSD.
As discussed above, these scenarios frequently appear in individuals
who are otherwise free of any indication of significant emotional and
psychological instability or pre-existing severe psycopathology. On careful
clinical assessment, these memories do not appear to fill the intrapsychic
niches usually occupied by psychotic or psycho-neurotic formulations. The
abduction scenarios do not encapsulate or ward off unacceptable impulses, they
do not define <or defend against> split off affects, they are not used either
to stabilize or to divert current or archaic patterns of behavior nor do they
provide secondary gain or manipulative control for the individual.
Instead, this material, experienced by the patient as unwelcome and
totally ego-dystonic, seems quite consistently to be woven into the fabric of
the patient's internal life only in terms of his reactive response to the
stress inherent in these experiences and the contents of the repressed
material related to the stressful memories. But the extent of this secondary
response can be extensive. It should be noted that PTSD has not previously
been thought to occur following trauma which has been generated solely by
internally states. If abduction scenarios are in fact fantasies, then our
understanding of PTSD need to be suitably broadened to account for this
heretofore unexpected correlation.
In addition, there are significant clinical implications to the
finding of abduction scenario material in a patient who shows PTSD but is
otherwise free of significant psychopathology. Since abduction scenario
material presents several crucial areas of anomaly and discrepancy between
what is known and that which is observed. It is very important for the
therapist to refrain from the comfortable (for the therapist, at least)
description of psychotic functioning to the patient who produces this material
until such disturbance is, in fact, demonstrated and corroborated by the
presence of other signs beside the UFO-related material. It is imperative for
the therapist to adopt a non-judgemental stance. He can attend to the
distress of the patient without attempting to confirm or deny possibilities
which are outside the specific area of his expertise. The clinician should
adopt as his therapeutic priority the alleviation of the PTSD symptomology
through the use of appropriate and acceptable methods specific to the
treatment of PTSD. In addition, the therapist must remember that while he may
have strong convictions pro or con the abduction actually having occurred, it
is not within either his capability or expertise to make such a judgement with
total certainty. Furthermore, as the clinical psychologist who evaluated the
nine abductees pointed out in her addendum, the sophistication of the
psychotherapies has not advanced to the point at which this determination can
be made on the basis of currently available information (21), although the
treatment of post traumatic symptomology is currently understood. Hence, it
is important for the therapist to retain the same non-judgemental and helpful
stance necessary to the successful treatment of any other traumatic insult.
When a therapist labels material as either unacceptable or insane, the
burden of the patient is increased. If the therapist is reacting out of
prejudices which reflect his own closely-held beliefs rather than his
complete certainty, he unfairly increases the distress of the patient.
SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS: Although it has long been the
"common wisdom" of both the professional and lay communities that anyone
claiming to be the victim of abduction by UFO occupants must be seriously
disturbed, thoroughly deluded or a liar, careful examination of both the
reports and their reports calls this assumption into question. Clinical and
psychometric investigation of abductees reveals four areas of discrepancy
between the expected data and the observable phenomena and suggests further
investigation. These discrepant areas are:
1. ABSENCE OF PSYCHOPATHOLOGY An unexpected absence of severe
psychopathology coupled with the high level of functioning found in many
abductees is a perplexing and surprising finding. Psychometric evaluation
of nine abductees revealed a notable heterogeneity of psychological and
psychometric characteristics. The major area of homogeneity was in the
absence of significant psychopathology. Rather than consulting a subset
of the severely disturbed and psychotic population, there is clinical
evidence that at least some abductees are high functioning, healthy
END
PARANET FILE NAME: LAIBOW.TXT
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Lebow.txt
Date: 21 Apr 91 08:57:00 GMT
Mike, at first reading, Lebow.txt seems indicate an approach to
studying abductees that is far from "amateurish". It
*may* just be putting some respectable psychiatric gloss on a
less-than-systematic approach to the problem, but it does seem
pretty thorough.
I'll study it more.
Best,
Clark
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Abduction Digest, Number 12
Monday, May 6th 1991
Today's Topics:
Continuum Continues
Call for Submissions
Abduction Investigation Update
Abduction Investigation Update (2)
Abduction Investigation Update (3)
Lydia addendum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Continuum Continues
Date: 30 Apr 91 23:07:00 GMT
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Call for Submissions
Date: 30 Apr 91 23:12:00 GMT
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May 15, 1991
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From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm)
Subject: Abduction Investigation Update
Date: 2 May 91 01:07:00 GMT
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FILE UPDATE: 31 March 1991
Subject Name: "Lydia" ____ (nee _____; Sometimes goes by maiden name)
Age: 45
Marital Status: Married 8 years. No children.
Husband "Lance" is an engineer.
Height: Approx. 6'
Education: Teaching degrees in English and Geology.
Employment: Educator, _______ School District.
EXPERIENCE SUMMARY:
This subject approached me in November of 1990, while at a State of
Arizona MUFON Conference. She informed me that she believed herself to
be an abductee, and that she had approached several others in the state
about getting some help, notably Hal Starr and Ed Beibel. She claims she
did not get much satisfaction from them, and was only looking for
someone to listen to her story and figure out what she should do.
Later that week, my wife and I met with Lydia at a Village Inn in Mesa,
and spoke with her for a period of about 2 hours, during which time she
related her various experiences in some detail. She had typed up some
info sheets on each of her major experiences, and had done some crude
renderings of various entities and situations. At the end of the
meeting, I suggested hypnosis and Lydia readily agreed.
Lydia's situation includes several consciously recalled incidents, the most
recent of which took place in April of 1990. This was the first incident in
which she actually recalls seeing entities, and thus it was the one that
triggered her desire for help. Other _consciously recalled_ incidents date
back to age 12 or 13, with several in her mid- to late-20's. It was apparent
to me from our meeting that Lydia's experience also involved a multitude of
buried memories, which seemed to be gnawing at her subconscious mind, and so
hypnosis was recommended both as a cathartic and as a method of uncovering
some elements of possible evidential value.
To date Lydia has had four hypnosis sessions with ______________, a therapy
practitioner in Mesa, AZ. I have attended three of those sessions. The first
session, in December of 1990, concentrated on her April, 1990 experience, of
which she consciously remembered only a brief scene on an "examination" table,
surrounded by several entities. She stated before hypnosis that the scene was
"fuzzy" and "slightly out of focus." The hypnosis session succeeded in
dredging up her recall of the events just prior to the "examination," in which
she recalled seeing a thin shaft of light, like a focused beam, emanating from
an air conditioning vent near the ceiling of her bedroom. During her hypnotic
recall of this segment of the experience, Lydia became quite agitated and
fearful, strongly giving the impression that she was perceiving these events
consciously for the first time.
The most interesting feature of this regression was Lydia's recollection of
reaching for her glasses on the nightstand next to her bed (she is
nearsighted) but being unsuccessful in getting to them before the entities
reached her. This is consistent with her blurred visual recall of subsequent
events, and is notable in that it was only under hypnosis that she realized
she did not have her glasses on.
At this point, Lydia recalled "floating" up through the night sky towards an
object she described as bell-shaped. She then has a hazy memory of seeing
things through a close "mesh", as if a fencing mask had been placed over her
face. Then she recalls waking up to find herself on a smooth-surfaced
examining table. Though somewhat groggy, she was able to see her bare feet,
and the fringe of her nightgown. She also saw an entity closely examining her
thoracic area, so closely that his head was a mere inch or two from her chest
and inches from her face.
Possibly relevant to this occurence is the fact that Lydia reportedly had
undergone radiography a month or two prior to this episode, in which it was
discovered that she had an unusual "spot" on one of her lungs. She describes
it as a honeycomb structure, "like you would see if you took a handful of
straws and pressed them against my lung and spit black ink through them."
Subsequent X-rays, the most recent being in January of 1991, have shown the
spot to be unchanged. Her doctors, she says, are not overly concerned at this
point, but they are mystified as to the nature of the spot. Further
investigation is planned in this area.
Lydia recalls a brief conversation with the entities, who told her they were
doing a study on "the effects of freedom." She recalls thinking that this made
sense, in light of world events, until they told her that they intended to set
a bunch of chickens free in the forest to see how they reacted to their
newfound freedom. She says that it took a couple of seconds for her to realize
that this made no sense at all ("My grandmother had a farm, I know what the
chickens would do, they'd run right back to their cages!") but she attributes
the delay to her somewhat groggy state.
>From the beginning, Lydia realized that the entities were not communicating
verbally, but that she was picking up their thoughts. She related this in a
rather surprised tone, and did not use the word "telepathy" or anything
similar. She said that she believed that she could "hit a mental mute button"
and be able to shield them from her thoughts. She thought to herself
(supposedly) that she needed to go to the bathroom. The entity's expression
immediately changed to one that approximated surprise (in her drawing she
depicts it with its mouth rounded in an "O") and in a instant, she was back in
her bedroom.
<Continued in next message..>
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From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm)
Subject: Abduction Investigation Update (2)
Date: 2 May 91 01:08:00 GMT
<<Continued from previous message>>
Most of the above incident, from waking up on the examining table, was
recalled consciously prior to hypnosis, but the session served to clarify the
visual images of the entities, and at one point Lydia began crying as she
seemed to fully confront their unpleasant and totally alien appearance.
Overall, the session was obviously a cathartic experience for Lydia, and she
seemed to have had a great weight lifted off her shoulders. She later claimed
to have been able to shed a few pounds, her weight problem having been of great
concern to her in recent years.
The second session, held in December of 1990, succeeded in extracting some
images from her experience at age 12, though it still remains largely shrouded
in the mists of her subconscious mind. The most significant aspect of this
event was Lydia's recollection of being on board a craft and seeing another
human female being carried on board, unconscious, by one of the entities. She
was unable to see the woman's face, but described her as having medium length,
light brown-to-blonde hair.
Much of the rest of this session was devoted to what might be a separate
episode, time frame uncertain, in which Lydia recalls looking out a curved
panel of windows and seeing clouds going by at eye level. In this episode she
recalls an entity standing at a counter, writing. After the session she was
able
to reconstruct three of the unrecognizable symbols she saw on the entity's
paper. These exoglyphs have been forwarded to CUFOS, Dave Jacobs, and Budd
Hopkins for comparison with other exemplars. A password-protected graphic
computer file containing these symbols also exists in the possession of the
director of ParaNet, who has agreed not to release it until further
consultation with other experts.
The third and fourth sessions brought out an even earlier episode, which Lydia
claims had to have occurred around July of 1954, at age 7. None of this
episode was recalled consciously prior to hypnosis.
The subject recounted standing across the street from her own house near
Valdosta, GA, looking up into the daytime sky, and feeling a painful pressure
in the area of her cheekbones, as if someone were "pulling up" on her face.
She seemed to re-experience this pain during both hypnotic sessions, and at
times had to be relieved of it through strong suggestion by _______.
At this point she recalls being "lifted up" into the sky, towards a hovering
disk-shaped craft. She described the sensation of thrusting through the floor
of the craft, where she says she felt like a small "blob" on the floor, like a
jellyfish. She felt she was not in a physical body, and could not feel her
arms, legs, face, etc. Two entities were standing over her. One said, "This is
___-__", exaggerating the syllables. She then felt her arms and legs "pop
out", as if from a central corpus. One of the entities placed a plain white
vestment, like a dress, over her head. She was escorted through the "craft,"
which she described as having curved walls with translucent white panels, not
unlike the devices doctors use to place x-rays on for viewing.
Lydia was led through several rooms, the first of which featured a large pool
containing a highly agitated clear liquid. She said it looked like water, but
she wasn't sure. During the fourth session, she recalled a feeling of cold in
her fingers while in this area. The entity led her through the room rather
quickly, and as they were leaving, Lydia claims to have gotten the impression
of the word, "propulsion" from the entity. She remembers wondering (at age 7)
what the word meant.
In the next room Lydia was asked if she could write her name ("of COURSE I can
write my name!" she responded, in precocious fashion), and proceeded to
oblige. Details of this particular segment have yet to be explored more fully.
There were several more rooms on the tour, including one that contained
several shelves of what appeared to be children's toys. On one shelf were some
small dolls with different types of clothing. Below that were some toys of a
more boyish nature, like toy trucks or motorcycles. Lydia recalls that the
entity seemed to expect her to be excited about the dolls, when in fact she
was never one for playing with dolls as a child. He seemed to register
disappointment when she said something like, "Yes - those are dolls", in an
offhand manner.
After a few more rooms, Lydia's next recollection was of being placed in a
small, dark "closet", and having the distinct feeling of her form changing to
a "cube"-like structure. In the next instant, she was back across the street
from her house.
There are various other elements to Lydia's experiences, including possible
screen memories (she has been spooked at the appearance of a praying mantis at
least twice), psi episodes, and a UFO sighting in March of 1988 while with her
husband. These need to be explored in more depth, both hypnotically and
consciously.
WITNESS BACKGROUND:
The most significant factor in Lydia's background is the fact that she has had
some exposure to the abduction phenomenon prior to her April experience,
through the reading of "Communion" and "Intruders". However, I would judge
this exposure to be at best peripheral and do not feel the UFO subject was a
major interest of hers at any time prior to last year. Certainly by itself it
is no cause for summary dismissal of the case, as it will naturally become
more and more difficult in this day and age to find "virgin" abduction
percipients.
<Continued in next message..>>
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From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm)
Subject: Abduction Investigation Update (3)
Date: 2 May 91 01:09:00 GMT
<<<Continued from previous message>>>
One of the first questions I asked Lydia regarded her childhood and the
possibility of any abuse, neglect, or sexual trauma. She replied in the
negative, claiming she had had a more or less normal childhood, and came from
a loving family.
Lydia is well-educated and widely read, with a strong interest in ancient
Greco-Roman culture, architecture and mythology. She and her husband maintain
an extensive library that takes up an entire wall of their garage. Titles
included works by Nietzche and Michener, several science fiction anthologies,
spy novels, and science texts on ballistic physics, chemistry, astronomy, and
geology. She has several ancient Greek artifacts in her den, which she shows
off proudly and with not a small sense of wonder at the accomplishments of the
ancients. She has travelled to Greece, and recalls that one of her most deeply
spiritual and introspective moments was sitting among the ruins of the
Parthenon, contemplating the wonders of the past.
Her relationship with her husband Lance is quite interesting. Lance is a
ballistics engineer at McDonnell-Douglas in Mesa, and an avid amateur
astronomer. They have been married 8 years, and he is several years her
senior. He has, from the beginning, indicated his skepticism on the subject
and is fairly reticent to even discuss the matter. However, this does not seem
to have affected their relationship in the slightest. They seem close and
loving, yet mutually independent. Both possess a good sense of humor. And both
are a bundle of ironies. Ever the hard-nosed, skeptical engineer, Lance is yet
a devout Lutheran. And Lydia, with her strange tale of small grey kidnappers,
is an avowed secular humanist. Yet theirs is a relaxed and affable
relationship in which they seem to have long ago come to terms with their
differences and even to have shrugged them off. Lydia occasionally tries to
nudge Lance into looking at her drawings and discussing the matter openly, but
is not overly put off by his hesitancy. "He'll come around some day," she
says.
Lydia and Lance do share an interest in recreational flying, and both have
pilots licenses. It was this mutual interest, in fact, that brought them
together, according to Lydia.
Recently, Lance purchased a subscription to The Skeptical Inquirer, the
quarterly publication of CSICOP. It is not clear whether he was prompted to do
so by a deep-seated discomfort with his wife's claimed experience. Lydia read
the first issue and called it well-written and authoritative. She has often
expressed her distaste for the "woo-woos," the New Age and spiritual side of
the UFO phenomenon. She in fact rejected my first choice for hypnosis
therapist on the basis of his brochure, which actually advertised for
abduction percipients and contained a drawing of a greylien. She thought he
would be "too flaky."
The couple's relationship is interesting to me for another reason. I had heard
that female abductees, especially, tend to be "clingy", and seemingly in
search of ever greater attention to their plight. They seem to attach
themselves to their abduction researcher, hoping for some kind of final
resolution to their trauma. I have often wondered if this longing for
attention is not a personality characteristic that might serve as a causal
basis for the experience itself. Meeting Lydia and Lance has dissuaded me from
this, at least for the moment. While Lydia was at first "desperate" in her
search for someone who would listen, and very plaintive in her request that I
at least give her case a hearing, she does not seem overly "clingy", either
with me OR with her husband. True, she does maintain a strong interest in her
case and in the possibility that she may be helping to advance research in
this area by cooperating fully with my investigation as well as with that of
CUFOS. But she has not been a 3AM caller, to my great relief. And her patience
with her husband is also indicative of an inner confidence and a sense of
independence, perhaps even a pioneering, "I'll-go-it-alone-if-I-have-to"
spirit.
EVALUATION:
My overall impression of her psyche is that she is basically stable, very
personable, with no sign of neurosis. She does have a tendency to speak in a
nervous, staccato, rambling manner, but patience is always rewarded with a
cohesive final story. These impressions are for the most part confirmed by the
results of her MMPI scores, which show her to be well within normal range on
all scales.
FUTURE RESEARCH:
Further hypnotic sessions are planned, in which we hope to extract the details
of the "gaps" in her abduction memories. Research will also be done on the
markings on her lung.
Furthermore, a meeting with the head of the local skeptics organization is
planned. This is in keeping with my belief that reasonable, responsible
skeptics should be brought into the loop, in order to afford them the
opportunity to get their hands dirty on the nitty-gritty of the subject,
something that is surprisingly lacking among skeptics. It is also hoped that
the feedback will provide a much-needed "reality check", and perhaps open up
potential new areas of reseach that may be obscured by a deep-seated
"will-to-believe" on the part of this researcher.
Further updates to this file will be made at least quarterly.
Jim Speiser 31 March 1991
END
PARANET FILE NAME: LYDIA331.TXT
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Lydia addendum
Date: 2 May 91 16:27:00 GMT
A couple of clarifications on that file are in order. First, by "crude
renderings", I mean not terribly detailed - Lydia is a pretty good sketch
artist, I just couldn't think of a synonym for "lacking in finer details."
Second, the manner of her speech I would describe as "animated, sometimes
rapid-fire." This is especially noticeable when she is attempting to describe
images from her experience. One gets the impression she is bending over
backwards to try to describe the indescribable, using words that don't exist,
and this sometimes causes her to get flustered.
Jim
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Abduction Digest, Number 13
Saturday, May 25th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Tesla & Tau Ceti
Re: Rima Laibow (Conclusion)
Re: Rima Laibow (Conclusion)
Re: Rima Laibow (Conclusion)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: Tesla & Tau Ceti
Date: 22 May 91 03:41:53 GMT
From: James Roger Black <jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Why all the interest in Tau Ceti?
Tau Ceti is one of the four nearby stars most commonly cited as possible
homes for extraterrestrial life:
Name Spectra Distance Comments
---- ------- -------- --------
Epsilon Eridani K2 10.76 ly
61 Cygni K5/K7/?? 11.08 ly triple star
Epsilon Indi K5 11.44 ly
Tau Ceti G8 11.87 ly
These are the only star systems within a 16-light-year radius of earth
that are considered likely to have habitable planets. The others are
thought to be either too unstable gravitationally to have planets at
all, or are too hot, too cold, too young, too old, too whatever to
provide a stable environment for life to develop and to survive long
enough for it to achieve intelligence. Tau Ceti is considered the best
candidate, since it is the most like our own sun.
Of course, even 'uninhabitable' planets could be colonized by high-tech
immigrants from somewhere else; and in any case the parameters of
'official' opinion in this area change year by year. For example, it
was long thought impossible for multiple-star systems such as Alpha
Centauri and 61 Cygni to have stable planetary orbits within the
habitable zones, but computer simulations have questioned that
conclusion.
One reason these four are attractive is that they all lie approximately
11 light years from earth. Apparently the first major UFO waves took
place some 22-24 years after the first high-power radio transmissions
from earth which could have been detected at interstellar distances.
Such transmissions, moving at the speed of light, would have taken
about 11 years to reach them, and spacecraft moving at near-light speed
would have taken not much more than that to return here--hence the 22-24
year time frame.
Of course, that's assuming that 'they' are in fact extra-terrestrials,
which is far from proven. Jacques Vallee, Gordon Creighton, and others
have suggested that the so-called 'aliens' are in fact as closely bound
to this planet as we are, in which case Tau Ceti is utterly
irrelevant.
Or, maybe, both theories are right ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul.Carr@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Carr)
Subject: Re: Rima Laibow (Conclusion)
Date: 19 May 91 20:19:00 GMT
One very interesting aspect of the Rima Laibow paper is that
it describes a semi-repeatable experiment - Having a psychiatrist
test several abductess, attempting to deduce if they have anything in
common. A control group of non-abductees (or perhaps several such
groups) would be needed to establish the validity of the results.
Let CSICOP's Psychologists (Robert A. Baker, Irving Biederman,
Susan Blackmore, Milton Rosenberg, and B.F. Skinner) pick the
psychiatrists to perform the examinations.
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From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Rima Laibow (Conclusion)
Date: 20 May 91 06:48:00 GMT
Paul:
On the subject of Robert Baker, are you aware of a book of his entitled
"They Call It Hypnosis"? (presumably Prometheus). I have been told that in
it he speaks of a study of 300 abductees, in which it was discovered that a
large majority of them, on the order of 80-90%, suffered from Fantasy-Prone
Personality. I'm asking because this information not only came as a shock to
me, but to several other "professionals" I've conversed with. One of them
assured me that the only people who have ever worked with such a large group
were Budd Hopkins and, indirectly, Eddie Bullard. If you, or anyone
watching, is aware of this book or the aforementioned study, please speak
up. Abductees everywhere are waiting with baited breath!
Jim
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From: Paul.Carr@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Carr)
Subject: Re: Rima Laibow (Conclusion)
Date: 21 May 91 19:11:00 GMT
Did Dr. Baker work with a control group? And where did he get 300
abductees? Put an ad in the National Enquirer?
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Abduction Digest, Number 14
Thursday, June 6th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Rima Laibow (Conclusion)
hi!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Rima Laibow (Conclusion)
Date: 22 May 91 06:52:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <05-21-91 12:11> Paul Carr wrote:
->Did Dr. Baker work with a control group?
Unknown.
> And where did he
->get 300
->abductees? Put an ad in the National Enquirer?
Again, unknown. That's why I'm asking!
Jim
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From: Joseph.Derosa@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Joseph Derosa)
Subject: hi!
Date: 30 May 91 21:09:00 GMT
Hello there clark. I have been trying to get onto this BBS for a while,
but have had limited time during the day. So far, it has been pretty
neat. Had a little problem with constantly re-reading the same
messages, but I think that I am over that now.
All in all, a very interesting bunch of messages to read. Of course I
feel as if I have come upon a conversation in the middle, but it is
still interesting.
One interesting note for you: after my dinner with the abductee two
months ago, I began noticing (and remembering) some of the same
symptoms. I'm not convinced - I've either been abducted myself, or
else
I've got LYME Disease from the yard. %3}
Let me know how everything is going, and give me a call.
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Abduction Digest, Number 15
Thursday, June 20th 1991
Today's Topics:
ABDUCTION PROFILE
ABDUCTION PROFILE
ABDUCTION PROFILE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: ABDUCTION PROFILE
Date: 19 Jun 91 23:10:00 GMT
TO ALL PARANET(sm) READERS:
The following is a brief biographical profile of a possible
abduction case I have been investigating. It was composed by the
percipient. Please post your opinions and/or questions. (sw)
_________________________________________________________________
*** NOTE *** Personal names have been deleted
_________________________________________________________________
FAMILY HISTORY:
Percipient: Female, age 35, (Name Deleted) born 2/9/56 in Newport
Beach,
CA - during a sizable earthquake.
Mother: (Name Deleted) Born 7/29/28 (deceased 11/14/82). Of English
and Creek Indian (Muskogee Nation) ancestry (though not verifiable;
suspect mother's father bought ancestry papers to cover Indian
roots). History of diabetes, heart disease, cancer in family. Died
from complications of diabetes. Was an educator, painter, and
numerologist.
Father: (Name Deleted) Born 12/9/09. Still living - residing in
nursing home, suffering from advanced Parkinson's disease. Of
Norwegian ancestry, first person in his family to marry out of his
nationality in 1000 years. History of diabetes, and neurological
diseases in family. Was a painter, educator and theosophist.
Siblings: Half sister from father's previous marriage - born
1/18/46
Half brother from father's previous marriage - born 6/6/47
Brother - born 11/14/58
Sister - born 2/10/60
Sister - born 8/21/64; deceased - died from neuroblastoma (Wilm's
Tumor)
_________________________________________________________________
MEDICAL HISTORY:
1) Complications from chicken pox at 6 months, went to lungs;
caused weak lungs - later developing into respiratory condition.
Hospitalized several times as a child with bronchial pneumonia.
2) Menses at age 10
3) Scarlet fever at age 12
4) Hospitalized with mysterious abdominal distension and pain at
age 16
5) Mysterious bleeding (bled for a month) at age 18
6) "Hysterical" episode at age 19. Found outside at night. Thought
a man was trying to cut out my baby (wasn't pregnant).
Hospitalized, given elavil and tranxene.
7) Pelvic inflammatory disease at age 20
8) Persistent allergies at all ages
9) Chronic nose bleeds and bleeding from ears (hemorrhaged both
eardrums at age 16).
10) Broken back at age 23
11) Unexplained tumors at age 23
12) Hospitalizes for mysterious tumors, abdominal distension and
pain, unusual blood count - doctors thought I had cancer twice that
year - age 24
13) Malaria at age 25
14) Recurring tumors at age 26
15) Pelvic inflammatory disease twice at age 27. Miscarriage.
16) Diagnosed with Candida albicans and Hypothyroidism at age 29.
17) Miscarriage at age 32
18) Diagnosed with diabetes at age 33
19) Complete hysterectomy at age 34
CONTINUED IN NEXT MESSAGE...
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: ABDUCTION PROFILE
Date: 19 Jun 91 23:12:00 GMT
...CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS MESSAGE
_______________________________________________________________
SEXUAL ABUSE:
1) Age 5: Molested by a neighbor boy.
2) Age 9: Molested by an elderly man who was a neighbor.
3) Age 11: Molested by a son of friends of the family.
4) Age 14: Forced seduction by a psychologist - was able to escape.
5) Age 22: Raped, drugged and held captive for 3 days by a
psychiatrist. Was not his patient. Didn't report it.
_________________________________________________________________
EXPERIENCES:
1) Night terror dreams since infancy
2) Age 3: Began playing with "light beings". Said that they were
"Jesus and his friends". Beings that emanated great amounts of
light (as a child, equated them with Italian holy pictures). My
parents let me roam on our property, unsupervised for hours.
3) Age 3: Became extremely afraid in the evening hours. Would
refuse to go to bed because I felt that there were people outside
my window waiting to take me away. I began bringing large cardboard
boxes into my room, so that I could hide from them. Sometimes the
fear would extend into the daylight hours. One day, I became lost
because I crawled into the crawlspace of our large two story
farmhouse, to escape "them". My parents were frantic! My father
finally rescued me from the bowels of the house, after a great
amount of the day had passed.
4) Age 4: Began awaking at night expecting to find spiders in my
bed. I became transfixed by them - to the point that my father
found me playing in a black widow's nest.
5) Age 6: Declared to an entire family gathering of 300, that I
would never have children. The same night, I saw a large ball of
light streak across the sky. My parents also saw it. They said:
"Never mind, it must be Santa Claus".
6) Age 8: Saw a large "angel" floating at eye level with me (I
slept on the top bunk of a bunk-bed) in the early morning hours.
I bound out of bed to tell my mother that St. Michael had just
visited me. She humored me...
7) Age 11: I was playing in a deserted farmhouse in Tennessee, with
a girlfriend - when we both suddenly realized we were in the middle
of a huge field of yellow flowers. It was strange. We hadn't
noticed it before (we had been playing for quite some time - and
the farmhouse had no doors or windows, so visually, it would be
difficult to miss). We became almost "drugged" with the discovery
and I said: "Every time I'm sad, I'll remember this field, for as
long as I live".
8) From 1976 to 1980, I did a lot of travelling throughout Northern
New Mexico. Every time I passed through Abique, Chama, or Questa
areas, I would feel extremely uncomfortable. I was strangely shaken
by these places, and every time I returned home I would turn on the
radio and hear reports of cattle mutilations in those same places,
at the same times...
9) Middle of October, 1980: I returned home late, after spending an
evening with friends (I had one drink and a puff on a joint, much
earlier, with little or no effect). I put my key in the lock and
was stunned by a powerful light. I looked to my right and saw an
immense ship, that covered my entire field of vision. I got a
sudden, but profound look at it! The next thing I remember is being
crouched in the corner of my portal, completely naked (but oddly
warm). I looked up to see all my clothes neatly folded and stacked
by the door, and the key still in the lock. I quickly gathered my
things, went inside, and noticed the clock. I was shocked to
discover 6 missing hours. I slipped into bed. The next thing I
remember was a deep voice in my head saying: "We are all ONE". The
CONTINUED IN NEXT MESSAGE...
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: ABDUCTION PROFILE
Date: 19 Jun 91 23:13:00 GMT
...CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS MESSAGE
next morning I told a couple of friends. They didn't believe me,
but begged me not to report it. We turned on the radio, just as the
disc jockey was announcing that there were 8 sightings of a UFO the
night before. I remained silent.
10) June 1986: My husband and I were caught in a large fog bank in
Arkansas. Upon emerging from it (we were driving a pick-up truck
and hauling a utility trailer), we saw a large day-glow green ball
fly across the sky, landing in a clump of trees to our right. The
next thing we remember is a coyote staring at us from the road,
with day-glow green eyes - the exact color of the flying ball. We
were not wearing watches and the truck did not have a clock. We
were very shaken, and ended up driving all night, to get the hell
out of Arkansas!
11) Santa Fe, NM, September 1988: Watching television one evening
when out of the corner of my eye, I saw a large, bright, purple
ball streak across the sky. Curious, I stood to catch a better look
at it. I saw it land beside the prison (a few miles away as the
crow flies). When it landed, it illuminated the entire sky for
about 2 seconds. Later that night, I bolted to a sitting position,
in bed. I felt that something was wrong with the house - I jumped
out of bed to discover that the front door was wide open. When I
awoke, my pillow case had blood on it. Both my husband and I were
having a lot of nosebleeds at that time. My ears were also bleeding
and I had strange marks on my body that I went to the doctor about.
She's ruled out fungus - she didn't know what it was. It was a
triangle, in the middle of a circle.
12) Grand Junction, CO, August 1989: I awoke in my motel room (we
were on holiday) to find two beings on top of the table, directly
in front of me. I pinched myself to make sure that I was awake.
Indeed I was! I walked over to them. I reached up to touch one of
them. The next thing I remember I was lying in bed, in the morning.
13) Newport, OR, Sunday, 12:30 A.M. - 3:24 A.M., 11/18/90: I was
watching Saturday Night Live. Paul Simon was on, I noticed the
time. I was alert and very much awake, but all of a sudden I was in
a dream with a friend and two men in black suits, escorting us to
a large silver disc. The next thing I remember was sitting back on
my couch, watching a show on UFOs.
14) Newport, OR, Saturday, 2 A.M. - 2:51 A.M., 12/1/90: I was just
getting into bed, when I noticed a strange, bright green line,
glowing above the curtains in the bedroom. I stood up and walked
over to it to investigate. I felt a "presence" in back of me. I
turned around and saw in the hallway mirror, a shadow about 3 feet
tall and whitish. I made a bolt, trying to catch it. The next thing
I know, I'm sitting up in bed looking at the clock.
_________________________________________________________________
COMMENTS:
After all these years of strange occurrences, my curiosity is
keener than ever, I've gone through stages of denial and complete
doubt. I've mentally investigated many possibilities that might be
causing such happenings - but, I am constantly haunted by dreams,
curious feelings (on all levels) and strange marks on my body - not
to mention chronic ailments of unknown origin. I'm not only
concerned about my experiences and their ramifications, but my
husbands role and safety through all this. I have been drug and
alcohol free for almost 8 years, and don't partake in caffeine or
tobacco either. My husband is equally strict with himself.
<END OF MESSAGE>
<<<<I (sw) welcome your comments and questions on this case.>>>>
Sheldon Wernikoff
--
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****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 16
Monday, July 8th 1991
Today's Topics:
Posting Guidelines
**** Warning *****
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Rogers)
Subject: Posting Guidelines
Date: 28 Jun 91 01:58:52 GMT
New readers are always joining Paranet.
For their benefit, allow me to review the rules of posting which we ask
all our users to adopt:
******* PARANET ECHO POLICIES ********
The following are guidelines for the operation of the Paranet Echos on
member boards. Please take a moment to read (and understand) these
policies. If we'll adopt these attitudes, we'll have a more polite,
effective network.
1. No anonymous messages may be posted on the network. Some Paranet BBS's
allow users to use "handles", and USENET users have no opportunity to
place their names in the "From" field. If a user uses a handle, then all
posts to Paranet Echos must be signed at the end of the message using
the user's REAL NAME. In the case of USENET posts, it would help to
place the ADDRESSEE's REAL NAME in the subject field. It is the respon-
sibility of the Sysop of each Paranet Node to enforce this requirement,
either by reviewing all messages before release, or by disallowing
Paranet access to users using handles.
2. Personal Attacks are *NOT* allowed in the Net. In any echo dealing with
issues as emotional as those with which we deal it is a matter of course
that the validity of testimony on the part of certain individuals will
be called into question. It is important, however, to remember that
*ALL* parties are to be treated with respect. If you wish to question a
person's validity, state your reservations AS YOUR OPINION. For example:
"John Doe is a totally unreliable witness" could leave you legally
vulnerable. "I BELIEVE John Doe to be a totally unreliable witness" is
much better, especially if you can add "because...". Please be careful
how you judge the parties involved, and attempt to defend your
contentions.
3. Any user who is found to have knowingly and deliberately posted false or
misleading information regarding the activities of the United States
Government, its intelligence agencies and/or operatives, with respect
to the investigation of UFOs or other related matters, will be locked
out of the network immediately and permanently, and their name
circulated to other UFO investigatory groups.
3.1 Since Paranet echos are exported to a number of countries around the
world, it should be noted that Federal Law prohibits the revelation of
"National Secrets" to "Foreign Governments". For this reason, we must
insist that material which might violate the National Secrets Act not be
posted in the echos. All sensitive material believed to be of legitimate
interest to Paranet researches should be delievered via NETMAIL to Mike
Corbin at Paranet Administration for review and subsequent release.
4. Direct Flames are best posted elsewhere. They will not be tolerated in
the echos.
5. References should be included if required for clarity. Some users tend
to copy the entirity of previous messages before responding, while
others never quote anything and simply make comments about previous
posts. You should remember that many boards don't hold all messages
forever. Quote (if your software allows it) or at least paraphrase
(write a simple summary of) the content of the message you refer to.
Please DO NOT quote the entire message, as this is just expense for
all boards concerned. Quote only the germaine material.
6. Please make all messages conform to the specified content of the Echo
Area in which you are posting. Putting the messages in the right pile
makes it MUCH easier to make sense out of the stacks of messages.
7. Enforcement. Users who violate these guidelines will be advised of the
lapse by the Echo Moderator. After three violation notices, the user is
to be locked out of Paranet areas by the sysop. A FIRST lockout will be
for THIRTY DAYS. A SECOND lockout will be for NINETY days. The THIRD
lockout will be PERMANENT. Sysops who refuse to lock out troublesome
users can be dropped from the net by the Paranet Administrator. Users
who believe the Moderator has been unfair in requesting a lockout can
request that their Sysop plead their case in the Sysop Echo. In such
cases, ALL net Sysops will be asked to vote on the matter. Vote of the
net is binding on all concerned.
Doug Rogers
Echo Moderator
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: **** Warning *****
Date: 7 Jul 91 23:30:00 GMT
* Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo"
* Originally from Mike Mansfield
* Originally dated 07-05-91 23:20
In a recent 'research study' done by UTMB Neuropsychology Galveston on the
effects of migrane headaches upon lifestyle, a few CURIOUS questions arose,
being that my wife was a participant, she was able to relay this information to
me. (She had recently been scheduled for a Cat Scan to diagnose unusual
migrane headaches)
The questionairres were in general, mostly generic, but the following
questions were asked that make me feel *perhaps* something more is being
studied than just headaches...
1) Have you ever felt you were being watched?
next question was a clincher...
2) Do you believe in Extraterrestrial life?
I see little reason that such questions should be included in a purely
scientific study unless the medical profession has turned 180 degrees and
suddenly believes in extraterrestrials...
(still waiting for the results of the Cat-Scan... although I wonder if we'll
get to see what was actually taken, or not...)
--
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****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
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****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 17
Friday, July 19th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Keelynet & Vangard Sciences Foundation
**** Warning *****
This Echo
Re: Keelynet & Vangard Sciences Foundation
This Echo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: Keelynet & Vangard Sciences Foundation
Date: 13 Jul 91 09:40:00 GMT
PN> Could you suggest what file I should read or d/l to
PN>learn something about Keely and how the KeelyNet got
PN>started?
PN> I appreciate the lead. Thanks!
Hi Peggy, and sorry for the long lapse. There are actually several
biographical files on John W. Keely on my BBS and on KeelyNet. Keelybio.zip
is one, and there are others.
I'd suggest calling here & running at text search in the Keely Areas.
You'll find quite a few.
Also have a new GIF graphic of the Keely Airship, courtesy of Joe Misiolek.
Best,
Clark
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tyson.Mitchiner@p2.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tyson Mitchiner)
Subject: **** Warning *****
Date: 12 Jul 91 10:30:02 GMT
MC> * Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo"
MC> * Originally from Mike Mansfield
MC> * Originally dated 07-05-91 23:20
MC> 2) Do you believe in Extraterrestrial life?
That is bad way to phrase this kind of question.. I would have to answer no
to this question, although it wouldn't mean I debunk the notion. Quite the
contrary, I am interested in whatever information can be pieced together, to
the point where the UFO mystery is resolved.
Since I have no proof that disproves or proves what the UFO's actually are,
I cannot believe in or against this situation.
Tyson
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@p8.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: This Echo
Date: 14 Jul 91 04:30:13 GMT
Is Dr. David Jacobs the Moderator of this Echo? Is he available for questions?
Thanks, take care.
John.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Re: Keelynet & Vangard Sciences Foundation
Date: 17 Jul 91 19:56:00 GMT
Hi Clark,
Thanks for the file info and background. I've saved it and
will get the file you mentioned to learn more about Keely. Thanks,
again!
==Peggy==
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: This Echo
Date: 18 Jul 91 07:02:00 GMT
> Is Dr. David Jacobs the Moderator of this Echo? Is he available
> for questions?
He supposedly is, but he hasn't dropped in for a while. The echo's
been fairly inactive.
jbh
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****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 18
Wednesday, July 24th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Keelynet & Vangard Sciences Foundation
This Echo
STREIBER LETTER
This Echo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Re: Keelynet & Vangard Sciences Foundation
Date: 18 Jul 91 21:55:00 GMT
PN> Thanks for the file info and background. I've
PN>saved it and will get the file you mentioned to learn more
PN>about Keely. Thanks, again!
My pleasure!
Best,
Clark
--
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UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@p8.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: This Echo
Date: 21 Jul 91 03:13:39 GMT
In a message to John Powell <18 Jul 91 00:02> John Hicks wrote:
>> Is Dr. David Jacobs the Moderator of this Echo? Is he available
>> for questions?
JH> He supposedly is, but he hasn't dropped in for a while. The
JH> echo's been fairly inactive.
Thanks John, I kinda suspected that... Rats.
Thanks, take care.
John.
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ncar!mrc-crc.ac.uk!carbon.crc.ac.uk!mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble
Subject: STREIBER LETTER
Date: 24 Jul 91 11:43:21 GMT
From: Steve Gamble x3293 <sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk>
On 29 June 91 Sheldon Wernikoff mailed to Info-paranet 432
a open letter from Whitley Streiber where he states that he
is giving up his newletter and leaving the field. Has anyone
heard anything more on this one?
Streiber also tells us what he thinks of UFOlogists. I contribute
the following story of how well he gets on with UFOlogists. In
1988 my colleague Bob Digby attended Leo Sprinkle's Rocky Mountain
Conference. Bob is a nice guy (so he tells me anyway!) and fairly
easy to get on with. He was talking to Whitley who asked 'what
brings you all the way from England to this conference'. Bob replied
to hear about peoples experiences and to hear your talk Whitley.
Whitley's reply went something like 'well you UFOlogists won't like
what I have to say' and walked off. He might find UFOlogists
disagreeable, but he did not put much effort into getting on with
people, so it seems.
STEVE GAMBLE
s.gamble@uk.ac.crc
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: This Echo
Date: 24 Jul 91 01:12:00 GMT
> >> Is Dr. David Jacobs the Moderator of this Echo? Is he available
> >> for questions?
> JH> He supposedly is, but he hasn't dropped in for a while. The
> JH> echo's been fairly inactive.
>
> Thanks John, I kinda suspected that... Rats.
We lost our affiliate in the Philadelphia area, but not for long. We have
another who will join us soon and Jacobs will be back on.
Stay tuned.
Mike
--
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Abduction Digest, Number 19
Monday, July 29th 1991
Today's Topics:
The Beyond
Lydia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Don.Hertzfeldt@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Hertzfeldt)
Subject: The Beyond
Date: 18 Jul 91 01:24:57 GMT
Hello, I'm a brand new user around these here parts, but I can tell
that this place is somewhere to stick around, as I have very very
similar interests. I run The Beyond sub on The Hunter's Cantina
(770-1527, handle Mason), which specailizes in the paranormal, from UFO
abductions to poltergeists to basically bizzare things. I'll upload some
texts from The Beyond to whet your appetite, and then hopefully I'll see
you there...
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Lydia
Date: 29 Jul 91 01:10:00 GMT
Jim,
I was wondering how your "Lydia" case was progressing and if you
will be posting an update shortly?
Unfortunately, the case I am involved with in Oregon has come to a
standstill - due to the fact that the percipient has decided she no
longer desires to explore her missing time episodes with a
therapist. She just wants to get on with her life and forget about
everything that happened. It's certainly frustrating for me, but of
course I must respect her wishes. She may change her mind as this
has occurred before.
Thanks,
Sheldon
--
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Abduction Digest, Number 20
Monday, August 5th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Lydia
This Echo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Lydia
Date: 29 Jul 91 21:20:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <07-28-91 18:10> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:
->Unfortunately, the case I am involved with in Oregon has come to a
->standstill - due to the fact that the percipient has decided she no
->longer desires to explore her missing time episodes with a
->therapist. She just wants to get on with her life and forget about
->everything that happened. It's certainly frustrating for
If that's the case, then the most important part of your work has been
completed successfully. Evidence has to come second to therapy. If she is
ready, willing and able to go on with her life, then her therapy has worked.
As to evidence, or even developing more knowledge about the phenomenon, it
may be frustrating, but I don't hold out much hope of any one particular
case being a breakthrough, short of someone barfing up an implant or
something. Its the slow and painstaking cataloguing of case experiences over
time that builds the best case for abductions.
Jim
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@p8.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: This Echo
Date: 30 Jul 91 02:11:27 GMT
In a message to John Powell <23 Jul 91 18:12> Michael Corbin wrote:
>> >> Is Dr. David Jacobs the Moderator of this Echo? Is he available
>> >> for questions?
>> JH> He supposedly is, but he hasn't dropped in for a while. The
>> JH> echo's been fairly inactive.
>>
>> Thanks John, I kinda suspected that... Rats.
MC> We lost our affiliate in the Philadelphia area, but not for long.
MC> We have another who will join us soon and Jacobs will be back on.
MC> Stay tuned.
Outstanding! I am hereby staying fine tuned.
Thanks, take care.
John.
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Abduction Digest, Number 21
Thursday, August 15th 1991
Today's Topics:
Statement of Principals
Satanic Ritual abuse
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker)
Subject: Statement of Principals
Date: 10 Aug 91 21:24:00 GMT
UFO Magazine Vol. 6 No. 1
All Rights Reserved.
This may be reprinted as long as
this header remains intact.
Statement of Principals
by John Brandenburg
The Rainbow Declaration is many things. Firstly, it is
a declaration of independence from our old world view:
that Earth was the "whole world" and its peoples oc-
cupied its center, that God alone inhabited the heavens,
that relations between different peoples in the cosmos
were of no serious concern, that if other people did live
in heavenly places, they would always act like angels, be-
ing better than us earthly flesh-and-blood. The Rainbow
Declaration replaces this world view with a cosmic
view-that Earth is a rare, precious, fragile and very
finite planet to be cherished, one among several planets
orbiting a star, Sol, which is merely one star among
myriads in a galaxy that is one among myriads.
The Declaration recognizes that the people of Earth
are a unique expression of life and intelligence in a
Universe that abounds in life and intelligence, one peo-
ple among myriads in the cosmos, no more, no less. It
states that we are God's children, therefore any claim by
any other race to ownership or privilege over us or our
planet is nullified.
By the Rainbow Declaration we realize a new identity:
we are the Solarians, the people of the star Sol, a name
that follows the custom in science fiction of naming
species after their star of origin. Solarian means literally "born
of the Sun" (and, I think, is a better identifica-
tion than "Earthling" or even "Terran"). By linking
our identity with the Sun, our star of origin, Solarian is
a proud and demanding name. We must strive to live up
to it. If we are Solarians, then we are people of the
cosmos, having equal rights with our fellow peoples of
the cosmos. If we are the Solarian people, then we are
something of consequence in cosmos. We belong here.
We are a force to be reckoned with.
Basic rights
The Rainbow Declaration is a "Cosmic Bill of
Rights," stating that all peoples are equal and shall en-
joy basic rights. In particular, all peoples shall have the right
to exclusive use of their genetic codes. A people's
genetic code is a "textbook" on how to live in the
biosphere of their homeworld and fight the many
diseases there.
It is assumed by the Declaration that if any other peo-
ple takes our genetic code, outside of reciprocal and
publicly-sanctioned scientific exchange, they are pro-
bably contemplating forcible colonization of the people's
homeworld. Another right is the right of a people to
possess their own region of space, centered on the star
of their homeworld. Finally, because rights on Earth
must be defended vigorously if they are not to be mean-
ingless, the right to assert and defend these rights is
basic.
The Rainbow Declaration did not arise spontaneously
in a vacuum; it arose like most statements of basic
rights-from a situation of gross abuse. The Declaration
is a positive response to the reported activities of some
extraterrestrial groups here on Earth, actions that are
vile and abusive by any human standard, and as the
Declaration asserts, by the standards of any other com-
munity of civilized peoples in the cosmos.
To believe such alleged actions aren't a form of abuse
is, in my opinion, an assertion that it is right for one
peoples to own another, or that "might makes right "
or that technological superiority creates moral authority
The Rainbow Declaration thus asserts that abuse is
abuse whether it is justified by alien riddles or animal
grunts, and that aggression is to be opposed whether it is
backed by glittering technology or stone axes. The Rain-
bow Declaration is a statement of defiance against those
who transgress against Earth, as well as an appeal for
peace and justice between peoples. The Declaration
begins by saying that the human race ought to set its
own house in order. In particular, if we want Earthly in-
telligent life to be respected, we ought to respect our
fellow Earthly creatures, especially whales and dolphins,
who are probably in their own way as intelligent as we
are. The Declaration also states that the United Nations
is the proper agency for negotiations with any extrater-
restrials-not any one nation's foreign ministry-and
that any such negotiations and their results should be open and
public.
Sovereignty of God
The Rainbow Declaration also acknowledges God as
the one sovereign source of all law and kinship among
peoples of the cosmos. Some have taken issue with this.
But if there are universal laws, who but God could or-
dain them? And if all peoples of the cosmos are part of
one family, who but God could be the head of that
family?
I cannot conceive of such a document, dealing with
such fundamental issues, that would not acknowledge
God. As for attempts to evoke ethical and social systems
on Earth based on denial of God, we have only to look
at this century's examples of Communism and Nazism
to see the results of such experiments. On the other
hand, the greatest and most enduring components of
human civilization are centered on an explicit or implicit
acknowledgement of the Divine.
To acknowledge the Divine is to evoke power and in-
telligence that is beyond the reach of political or
technological powers-that-be on earth or elsewhere, and
to recognize a source of mortal authority and truth that
transcends all boundaries of race, nation or star, a
power that laughs at gold and technology, before whom
the stars are dust and galaxies mere snowflakes, and
before whom the wisest and oldest species of intelligence
in this galaxy are but toddling children.
Finally, the Declaration is a statement of human in-
tentions, that we intend to join the community of
peoples of the cosmos as a respected and equal member.
Achieving respect means that respect will be earned, not
commanded; thus, the Rainbow Declaration is first and
foremost a recognition of our true identity and the
responsibilities that come with it. This ought to be our
real goal: to become known as the Solarian people, a
just and brave people in our own eyes and in the eyes of
the whole galactic community. We would want to be
known as a people who can bring light and truth to the
family of peoples, not merely as having duplicated the
technological achievements of others.
--
Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jack.Doran@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jack Doran)
Subject: Satanic Ritual abuse
Date: 7 Aug 91 13:23:11 GMT
>I have been interested for the last few years in the
>whole 'satanism' phenomena, and have noticed many
>parallels between abduction claims and the claims made
>by 'satanic ritual child abuse survivors'. I have been
>corresponding with Dr. Robert Baker, a professor of
>psychology at the University of Kentucky on this subject
>and he recently suggested that I look into getting a
>book called "Sexual Abuse Hysteria: the Salem Witch Trials
>revisited" by Richard A. Gardner. You might find this
>interesting reading as well.
Have you found any credible victims of satanic abuse
who are NOT connected with some Christian group or
another? I recently saw a Sally Jesse Rafael
show where 1 of the 3 witnesses was very credible,
but even she was now connected with a "born again"
group; she claims to have been a "breeder"
for an international group of satanists. I for one
believe that fundamentalist Christians can see Old
Nick just about anywhere they want to see him,
which is everywhere, so I put no credence in any
of their testimony. Especially the testimony of
people who suddenly "remember" having been
satanically abused at a young age and "it's
all coming back to me." I would be interested
if you could steer me to any credible
sources that support the thesis that there is a
group of "generational satanists" operating in
the U.S. today. One of the best books on Satanism
is SATAN WANTS YOU which, despite the title,
is quite scholarly.
--
Jack Doran - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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Abduction Digest, Number 22
Thursday, August 22nd 1991
Today's Topics:
files
hi.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Danny.Brandenburg@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Danny Brandenburg)
Subject: files
Date: 8 Aug 91 23:23:36 GMT
> I'll upload some texts from The Beyong to wet you appetite, and then
> hopehully I'll see you there...
Don,
Is there any way we could trade disks trough the mail? I would
like to get hold on some of the software and files you mentioned.
However, due to the price of long distance, I feel that I am not able
to do any form of mass transfer over the lines. Also, are you
connected to the Bitnet/Internet systems. If so, we could transfer the
files there. If you are connected, send E-mail to UK01902@UKPR.UKY.EDU
Thanks in advance,
Danny Brandenburg
Brandenburg's BBS...(606) 255-5739
--
Danny Brandenburg - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Danny.Brandenburg@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Danny Brandenburg)
Subject: hi.
Date: 18 Aug 91 02:55:16 GMT
Do you happen to live here locally (in Kentucky or in Lexington)? Are
you also a member of the Kentucky Ascociation of Science Educators and
Skeptics? I noticed in a previous note that you had talked to Dr. Robert
Baker. I think I may know you outside of this net.
Just interested,
Brandenburg
--
Danny Brandenburg - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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Abduction Digest, Number 23
Wednesday, August 28th 1991
Today's Topics:
Rainbow Declaration
WITNESS SUPPORT GROUPS
Witness Support Groups
Abduction of Leo Sprinkle
Rainbow Declaration
Welcome (Again)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jack.Doran@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jack Doran)
Subject: Rainbow Declaration
Date: 15 Aug 91 19:44:06 GMT
Do you have to vote for Jesse Jackson to subscribe to the Rainbow
Declaration?
--
Jack Doran - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble
Subject: WITNESS SUPPORT GROUPS
Date: 23 Aug 91 14:37:16 GMT
From: Steve Gamble x3293 <sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk>
Dear All,
One problem I have been giving some thought to is how UFOlogists
might help abductees and other close encounter witnesses. I am
mailing here to see what other ideas people can provide.
Should we be aiming for Budd Hopkins style mutual support type
groups or the Rima Laibow one-to-one session with a professional
shrink?
Steve.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Witness Support Groups
Date: 26 Aug 91 03:20:00 GMT
In a message to all <23-Aug-91> Steve Gamble wrote:
SG> One problem I have been giving some thought to is how
SG> UFOlogists might help abductees and other close encounter
SG> witnesses. I am mailing here to see what other ideas people can
SG> provide.
SG> Should we be aiming for Budd Hopkins style mutual support type
SG> groups or the Rima Laibow one-to-one session with a
SG> professional shrink?
Hi, Steve
Ufologists must learn not to isolate the abduction/witness
experience from other previous/post events in the percipient's
life. The holistic approach seems to yield the best results.
Mutual support groups certainly have a place in all this, but the
witness learns little about what/why things have occurred to them,
they just seem to discover the fact that what happened is OK, and
it happens to others. They also tend to get overly attached to the
group facilitator.
I think the best way to go would be a combination of support,
therapy, scientific education, and a dash of healthy skepticism.
Hypnotic regression should also be utilized much less frequently
than it is now, and when deemed necessary, should only be
administered by qualified professionals.
Take care,
---Sheldon (Chicago, IL)
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Abduction of Leo Sprinkle
Date: 25 Aug 91 16:53:00 GMT
In the August 1991 issue of THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY is a long (10-page)
article called "The UFO Expereince."
Leo Sprinkle of the Univ. of Wyoming founded the Rocky Mountain
Conference on UFO Investigation in 1980. This article tells of an
abduction experience for Sprinkle at age 10. The alien's message to
Sprinkle aboard the craft was, "Leo, learn to read and write well so
that when you grow up, you can help other people learn more about their
purposoe in life."
Sprinkle felt relieved (after his own hypnosis) and he felt it was all
"preparation for my UFO research work. The psychological dilemma was
over. I accepted myself as a contactee. Now I had a social dilemma.
I had encouraged otheres to speak out and now I had to do the same."
So what happened after a while? The National Enquirer picked
up Sprinkle's story (included in Ruth Montgomery's book ALIENS AMONG
US)
and the headlines were:
"Space Aliens Abducted Me as a Child...Claims College Professor,"
and the piece was the predictaable disaster.
In 1989, 2 years after the "Enquirer" piece came out, Sprinkle ,
succumbing to considerable pressure, resigned his tenured
professorship.
Read the article as it is fascinating. I managed to find THE ATLANTIC
MONTHLY in my city's humble library, so it is available.
Thanks,
Linda Bird
--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker)
Subject: Rainbow Declaration
Date: 26 Aug 91 23:53:00 GMT
He said;
> Do you have to vote for Jesse Jackson to subscribe to the Rainbow
> Declaration?
Nope, just read ParaNet......
Don
--
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INTERNET: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Welcome (Again)
Date: 28 Aug 91 05:09:00 GMT
Steve:
Forgive me if you got this message already, but you never responded, so I
thought I would post it again just in case it never reached you. I'm never
sure what ParaNet echoes are hooked into the InterNet. (Mike, if ABDUCT is
not hooked in, please forward this to Steve one way or the other).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve:
First, welcome to ParaNet. Your organization is a much-needed addition
to this network.
Second, a few months ago a program aired on American television on the
subject of abductions. One of the three segments centered on a case
involving a police officer in Yorkshire by the name of Alan Godfrey. I
wondered if you were familiar with this case, and how it is regarded in
the UK. It seemed a very interesting case on this end, but I had never
heard of it before.
Thanks,
Jim Speiser
--
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Abduction Digest, Number 24
Wednesday, September 4th 1991
Today's Topics:
Alan Godfrey Case
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble
Subject: Alan Godfrey Case
Date: 30 Aug 91 15:11:53 GMT
From: Steve Gamble x3293 <sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk>
To : Jim Speiser
In reply to your message in abduct 23 :-
+Forgive me if you got this message already, but you never responded, so I
The original message did get thro'. It came thro' just before I went off to
the International Congress in Sheffield. I remember making a mental note
to reply to the message but then forgot - Sorry
+sure what ParaNet echoes are hooked into the InterNet. (Mike, if ABDUCT is
I get the abduction newsletter so no problem (IF I remember to answer!!)
+ a few months ago a program aired on American television on the
+subject of abductions. One of the three segments centered on a case
+involving a police officer in Yorkshire by the name of Alan Godfrey. I
+wondered if you were familiar with this case, and how it is regarded in
+the UK. It seemed a very interesting case on this end, but I had never
+heard of it before.
I heard about the programme when I was at Leo Sprinkle's conference in
Laramie. Several people mentioned it to me and remarked how good it was.
If it is the same programme I am thinking of there were two other segments
which were Betty and Barney Hill and Travis Walton.
The Alan Godfrey case is featured extensively in a book called the
Pennine UFO Mystery by Jenny Randles, published around 1983. Basically
early one morning Alan was patrolling in his car near Todmorden in
Yorkshire. He came across a large UFO with what he described (I am
working from memory here) as a series of windows across the middle.
When he arrived back at the Police Station he appeared to have been
away around 15minutes longer than he expected. He described a circular
dry patch (on the wet road) just below where the UFO hovered.
At some point Alan was hypnotised. I can not remember what information
he came out with but recollect that it added something to his story. I
do remember seeing Alan on a couple of TV programmes where he said that
he could only vouch for the information he recalled without hypnosis. So
if he is not entirely happy with the hypnosis information we would be
better disregarding it. (perhaps that's why I cannot remember what came
out.)
The case has been somewhat controversial. Steuart Campbell has attempted
to explain it as some form of mirage. Jenny Randles has put forward a
form of the plasma vortex as a solution. One suggestion I have heard is
that, possibly as a result of working many night shifts, Alan suffered
from narcolepsy (cat napping) and that the incident was part of this. I
do not know if anybody has run any of these solutions past Alan.
There were a couple of other UFO reports from Yorkshire that same night.
I think the case is really wide open still.
Steve Gamble
s.gamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk
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Abduction Digest, Number 25
Monday, September 16th 1991
Today's Topics:
Implants
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Implants
Date: 15 Sep 91 23:22:00 GMT
Some time ago I reported on Paranet concerning a local abduction case
where the woman involved believed she had an implant in her upper
mouth. I reported that a dental x-ray had indeed shown two unusual
items in her upper mouth in the area she had indicated. I mentioned
that the dentist involved had confirmed to me that he could not
explain the x-ray in conventional terms. I later reported that a full
mouth x-ray had failed to detect any such "implant".
I am in the process of completing an article for the IUR on this piece
of evidence, plus intend covering the subject of implants in general.
Thank you to all those on Paranet who have already forwarded me items
of interest to use in my article.
If anyone else has come across definitive examples of implants, I
would be grateful to hear of them-you will, of course, be referenced
as the source in my article. My postal address is UFORA Research
Division, PO Box 302, Modbury North, South Australia 5092, Australia,
or simply chat here.
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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Abduction Digest, Number 26
Thursday, September 26th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Implants
Implants
abductions
Re: abductions
abductions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: Implants
Date: 18 Sep 91 05:39:00 GMT
I recently had a CT on my head. The CT is a whole bunch of x-rays that
the computer puts together to get a good view of what's in the noggin.
With my interest in implants I made a point of asking the Doctor some
questions about what was on the plates when we went over them. There
were some little spots here and there. He said that such spots are
common and are calcium and other stuff but not really identifiable, per
se.
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Implants
Date: 22 Sep 91 16:53:00 GMT
Recently while Jerry Clarke was attending the Sydney International UFO seminar,
I raised the question with him, "When did implant stories start?" One of the
first references I can find in the 1980's is in the Bennewitz saga. At one
stage Bennewitz and Dr Leo Sprinkle regressed a woman abductee. Amongst other
things, what emerged from this woman was that the aliens were surgically
implanting mind control devices into her skull to track her and use her as a
"remote control." (Sources: Clark, J. UFOs in the 1980's.Detroit. Apogee. 1990.
p88-89. Blum, H. Out There. pp230-231.)
Now, we are told that much of what Bennewitz believed was part of a USAF
disinformation campaign. So, does the implant section of the abduction
phenomenon originate from disinformation?
I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts, ideas, more factual information etc on this
matter.
(9:1040/12)
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: abductions
Date: 23 Sep 91 07:57:00 GMT
I have a difficult time believing that people are really abducted. The
most believable case to me, was the Barney and Betty Hill case however,
in reading other data (besides the famous book on it which was written
from the point of view that the Hills were truly abducted), one
discovers things which subtract from the creditability of the Hills
testimony.
The author of COMMUNION (Whitney Streiber - I think I spelled that
right!!) seems to typify what might be a pattern for abduction cases.
The hard evidence is rather slim. Abductees are examined with an
emphasis on their genitalia and often sexually aroused by the ET's.
Abductees often show a characteristic often found in schizophrenia, the
"I was chosen to" attitude.
I find it hard to believe that IF aliens landed and wished to
physically examine us, they would emphasize sexual arousal. Our
methods of reproduction are really rather ordinary and sexual arousal
is something only exciting to the human animal - the alien might not
even pick up that sex is something extraordinarily scintillating to
humans - why should they since this attitude seems rather unreasonable
(i.e. our almost worshipping attitude about sex) in the overall scheme
of things.
Descriptions of examinations are often confusing and described as if
these aliens, possessing a far greater technology than ours, are rather
primitive in the methods of examination.
I have studied UFO's for years and have not, to this day, seen any HARD
evidence that any have even landed. Pictures are always fuzzy,
witnesses are often inebriated or fame seeking or lack in stability in
one way or another. Odd circumstances, even such as described in
Operation Blue Book, are explainable in other ways and even if they are
not explicable, it still doesn't mean that one MUST explain it using
the UFO theory.
My theory of UFOs is that it's a modern incarnation of the Greek and
Roman gods and godesses - the aliens often bear great resemblance to
these ancient mythological figures who were super human but very
actively sexual beings etc. It's interesting that one seldom finds
people into Christianity and 'into'
UFO's at the same time. I feel that further upholds my theory -
Christians being satisfied religiously speaking, need not search for
'gods' from the sky.
In investigating archiological data, one finds evidence in the earliest
man of two things - art and religion. (and the art is usually closely
connected to the religion). The need for religion seems to be inborn
in man (and inexplicable since there is no obvious advantage to this
desire, evolutionarily speaking) and I feel that in an age where
traditional Christianity and Judiaism, the most modern monotheistic
religions, are being rejected, mankind is regressing back to the
paganism from whence he came - only the pagan gods are now clothed in
technological mythology, riding in space ships instead of chariots.
I leave this message, not as a criticism, but in hopes that many will
respond to me and present evidence either in favor or against my above
stated theory. I wish to learn more from those who might teach me.
--
Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 24 Sep 91 21:58:00 GMT
ON what basis do you state that most witnesses are inebriated or
seeking attention. From my reading it is exactly the opposite - most
witnesses are "normal" people who as often or not don't want to tell
anyone what they saw for fear of ridicule. As to the religious
aspects, again, I have seen nothing that would even provide a basis for
formulating a theory of any substance in regard to the religiosity of
witnesses. I will say however that one might wonder if the failure of
religion to solve the complex problems of today might lead otherwise
religious people to look for something more meaningful and something
that works, i.e., UFOnaughts. I also don't see any evidence that
mankind is regressing back to paganism althought I don't see much
connection of that with UFO's one way or the other.
When all is said and done the "evidence" remains that something is
being percieved in the skys over many cities and countries and not just
by wackos. There have been numerous reports by people who are not
likely to be fabricating what they say, such as the reports by American
Military (Bentwaters) and Belgium Military (Belgium UFO) not to mention
the tons of military reports during the project bluebook days. Most
people don't associate Military with "sense of humor" in regard to
false reporting - I think it highly unlikely that most military types
make suprious reports on UFO's for the fun of it. That is not proof of
extraterrestrial visitation by any means but suggests to me that
SOMETHING is being perceived in the sky whatever it may be.
--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: abductions
Date: 24 Sep 91 22:20:00 GMT
Sue:
For now, I'll just add one thing to what Jim Delton said. (And this will be a
major element in my presentation to your MENSA group). In order to discuss UFOs
intelligently, we MUST divide the question into two separate but related
issues: 1) Do UFOs exist? 2) Are UFOs alien spacecraft? There really is no
reason to discuss the second issue without first establishing the answer to
the first. The answer to #1 is obviously yes. You claim:
> I have studied UFO's for years and have not, to this day, seen any HARD
> evidence that any have even landed. Pictures are always fuzzy,
> witnesses are often inebriated or fame seeking or lack in stability in
> one way or another. Odd circumstances, even such as described in
> Operation Blue Book, are explainable in other ways and even if they are
> not explicable, it still doesn't mean that one MUST explain it using the
> UFO theory.
I don't know where you've been looking, but evidence (not PROOF - EVIDENCE)
exists that demonstrates the existence of a phenomenon. The phenomenon involves
flying objects that have thus far not been identified, even by our best
scientists. They SHOULD NOT BE THERE. When you say, "the UFO theory" in the
above paragraph, I assume you are referring to the alien spacecraft hypothesis.
That's true, and no one (at least not here on ParaNet) is saying anything about
"MUST". But that's issue #2. For now, issue #1 is on the table. I can, and
will, show you videotapes of objects that A) evade explanation by ordinary
means, B) exhibit aerodynamic properties we are not yet capable of, and C) SEEM
to exhibit intelligent guidance. Once that's established, are you willing to
explore further, or are you going to tell me what they told me on the SCIENCE
echo - basically, "SO WHAT?"
Its kinda funny, when Jim Delton first logged onto ParaNet 5 years ago, he left
a message almost exactly like yours. He has since changed his stance somewhat,
basically because we were able to show him the evidence he needed - pictures
that WEREN'T fuzzy, witnesses that WEREN'T cuckoo, etc. A question now occurs
to me: are you REALLY PREPARED to change your stance on this issue? Even when
the evidence dictates, its not always easy to do....
Jim
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Abduction Digest, Number 27
Saturday, October 5th 1991
Today's Topics:
Jacobs
Jacobs
abductions
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Re: Abductions
Abductions
Re: Abductions
abductions
abductions
abductions
Abductions
Alan Godfrey Case
FPP Research
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Jacobs
Date: 28 Sep 91 00:06:00 GMT
Can anyone tell me when David Jacobs new book is coming out and the
areas it will cover? Thanks.
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From: Mark.Rodeghier@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mark Rodeghier)
Subject: Jacobs
Date: 27 Sep 91 23:27:00 GMT
* In a message originally to All, Keith Basterfield said:
>Can anyone tell me when David Jacobs new book is coming out and
>the areas it will cover? Thanks.
>
Hello, Keith:
First off, Jerry Clark certainly enjoyed his visit in Australia with
you, Bill, Jenny and others. He's spent some time on the phone
filling me in on what he gleaned from his discussions.
As for Jacobs book, it should be out in early 1992. I haven't seen it
but have heard about it from Swords and Jerry, who saw previous
drafts. It is entitled (or was the last I heard) "The Secret Life
of UFO Abductees." I don't have details on its exact content.
If I learn any more I'll certainly pass it along.
Regards, Mark.
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: abductions
Date: 27 Sep 91 19:13:00 GMT
> discuss UFOs intelligently, we MUST divide the question into two
> separate but related issues: 1) Do UFOs exist? 2) Are UFOs alien
> spacecraft? There really is no reason to discuss the second issue
> without first establishing the answer to the first. The answer to #1 is
> obviously yes.
Although UFOs obviously exist, as Vallee has pointed out, there really isn't
much evidence that could prove that they're alien spacecraft. They seem less
hardware and more "somthing else."
So, anyway, I think we really need to seperate things even further....UFOs,
the spacecraft question, and the ET question. One common problem is the
perception that if you "buy" the existence of UFOs, you also "buy" the theory
that they're alien spacecraft piloted by live aliens. That nuance isn't made
very clear in most published material.
Here in North America it's pretty much taken for granted that UFOs are
spacecraft, but I think that reflects our hardware high-tech society more than
any real evidence.
So, granted that UFOs really exist, the question becomes, "Are they hardware
or not-so-hard ware?" Can't do much on where they come from without first
figuring out what they are. And we really can't do much on their occupants
either, other than indulge in pure speculation.
jbh
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 1 Oct 91 07:29:00 GMT
JD>ON what basis do you state that most witnesses are inebriated or
JD>seeking attention.
It's been that way in all the books I have read and I've been reading
books on UFOs for 30 years now... Have read most of the 'classics' as
well as some of the modern works.
JD>I will say however that
JD>one might wonder if the failure of religion to solve the complex
JD>problems of today might lead otherwise religious people to look
JD>for something more meaningful and something that works, i.e.,
JD>UFOnaughts.
Why would a UFOnaught be more meaningful than God? ET's are more
understandable than God and people are more comfortable with them.
Religion solves the complex problems of today (which are really not
much different from the complex problems of yesterday) just fine but
like Epson Salts, it doesn't work if you don't use it! (last statement
paraphrased from the 'Big Book' by Bill W. founder of AA who blamed his
alcoholism on his atheistic belief set which he changed upon getting
into AA, and consequently also, recovered from alcoholism - his
arguments for the falacies of atheism are, unlike Thomas Acquinas and
other scholars, very practical and very interesting to read).
JD>I also don't see any
JD>evidence that mankind is regressing back to paganism althought
JD>I don't see much connection of that with UFO's one way or the
JD>other.
In doing a comparative study of the UFO myths with pagan myths of
earlier civilizations, one can find quite a few striking similarities.
Gods like Apollo who fly through the air, are men but somewhat super
men, would not appeal to technological moderns, however, gods like ETs,
flying in space ships who possess pretty much the same statue and
powers attributed to Apollo and other like pagan gods, would appeal.
The prototype of such a god, humanlike but superior with superior
powers but not beyond the realm of physical enjoyments like sex,
appears in countless religions which predate monotheism. That's the
odd thing about Judiaism and Christianity - the 'god' of those
religions is strikingly different from any other invented gods of
mankind and also, this 'god' is somewhat alien to man, not really a
figure that man feels comfortable with i.e. totally non human, beyond
physical pleasures like sex, doesn't want worship - only wants man to
love Him and other men and doesn't have a body. Is everywhere etc.
Bishop Sheen points out the differentness of this Yahweh God figure as
being a rather impressive argument for the possibility that man did NOT
make up THIS God (too alien and too unlike all the other 'gods') which
leads us to suspect that many Something did contact the Jews (who wrote
down the accounts of this Something who called itself 'I am who is' in
the bible).
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 1 Oct 91 07:42:00 GMT
JS>I don't know where you've been looking, but evidence (not PROOF
JS>- EVIDENCE) exists that demonstrates the existence of a phenomenon.
JS>The phenomenon involves flying objects that have thus far not
JS>been identified, even by our best scientists.
I have examined much evidence and not found anything really convincing.
A few unexplained instances but that, in itself, does not necessarily
mean UFOs.
If you wish, I can upload some of the books I have read - lots - from
the Ruppelt book to the modern Streiber books. Have been interested in
UFOs since the age of 10 when the idea fascinated me.
JS>For now, issue #1 is on the
JS>table. I can, and will, show you videotapes of objects that A)
JS>evade explanation by ordinary means, B) exhibit aerodynamic
properties
JS>we are not yet capable of, and C) SEEM to exhibit intelligent
JS>guidance. Once that's established, are you willing to explore
JS>further, or are you going to tell me what they told me on the
JS>SCIENCE echo - basically, "SO WHAT?"
I will listen with interest to anything you care to share with me. I
did specially order that book you told me to get which you felt very
convincing - I felt it more of the same stuff I had read over and over
- not real creditable witnesses, ETs overly interested in sex (which
they wouldn't be - sex is only exciting to us humans) and very vague
data. However, the idea STILL fascinates me. I would love to discover
some REAL evidence of visitations - guess that's why I keep reading and
investigating.
JS>Its kinda funny, when Jim Delton first logged onto ParaNet 5 years
JS>ago, he left a message almost exactly like yours. He has since
JS>changed his stance somewhat, basically because we were able to
JS>show him the evidence he needed -
I've been studying and reading for the past 30 years. (I list 20 books
in my book journal - just a fraction of the books I have read in the
last 30 years).
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From: Tyson.Mitchiner@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tyson Mitchiner)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 28 Sep 91 09:00:00 GMT
JS> But that's issue #2. For now, issue #1 is on the table. I can, and
JS> will, show you videotapes of objects that A) evade explanation by
JS> ordinary means, B) exhibit aerodynamic properties we are not yet
JS> capable of, and C) SEEM to exhibit intelligent guidance. Once that's
Is there enough of those videotapes to release a documentary
pointing out that something unidentified exists, and to ask for a
serious scientific inquiry?
I mean, if there was such a collection of those videotaped objects
grouped together and presented, and somehow gets on national TV, I don't
see how people would ignore such evidence that would lead one to ask,
"What ARE these objects?". I do not mean saying "Oh, these are alien
spacecraft!", but "What are those objects?".
Tyson
From an explorer.........
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From: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Rogers)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 29 Sep 91 18:24:22 GMT
Sue,
You certainly seem to make a large number of assertions here, and, like all
rational investigators, I'm interested in where these assertions are based.
For example:
> of view that the Hills were truly abducted), one discovers
> things which subtract from the creditability of the Hills
> testimony.
>
Such as?
> Abductees often show a characteristic
> often found in schizophrenia, the "I was chosen to" attitude.
>
>
Would you not agree, using this criteria, that the same might be said of the
savior of the christian faith, his desiples, and last but not least, one
certain Paul, whose dreams opened the faith for the Gentiles?
>
> Our methods of reproduction are really rather ordinary
> and sexual arousal is something only exciting to the human
> animal - the alien might not even pick up that sex is something
Last time I checked, sexual arrousal was common to most of the higher animals
on this planet. I don't find it in the least odd that a study of the fauna of
the earth (including us) would not include this.
> extraordinarily scintillating to humans - why should they
> since this attitude seems rather unreasonable (i.e. our
> almost worshipping attitude about sex) in the overall scheme
> of things.
Would this happen to reflect some negative attitude of your own?
> Descriptions of examinations are often confusing and described
> as if these aliens, possessing a far greater technology
> than ours, are rather primitive in the methods of examination.
>From this, I assume that the contents of a modern operating room would make
sense to you if you suddenly woke up and found yourself there without
remembering the trip?
> I have studied UFO's for years and have not, to this day,
> seen any HARD evidence that any have even landed. Pictures
> are always fuzzy, witnesses are often inebriated or fame
> seeking or lack in stability in one way or another. Odd
I'd be interested in seeing a statistical breakdown of the percentages of cases
wherein investigators have given credence to drunken sightings. As one trained
in psychology, I find your last comment extremely interesting. How do you come
to the conclusion that people who see the unexplainable are "lacking in
stability?"
> My theory of UFOs is that it's a modern incarnation of
> the Greek and Roman gods and godesses - the aliens often
> bear great resemblance to these ancient mythological figures
> who were super human but very actively sexual beings etc.
<ahem>
I believe I would again like to see a statistical breakdown if you wish to
make this assertion. Do the "Nordics" REALLY outnumber the
"Greys" and the others by a significant percentage? How many sources
have you consulted to arrive at this assertion?
> It's interesting that one seldom finds people into Christianity and 'into'
> UFO's at the same time. I feel that further upholds my
> theory - Christians being satisfied religiously speaking,
> need not search for 'gods' from the sky.
>
It is my personal opinion that the above paragraph summizes your REAL agenda in
making this post. Why do you feel that people who are "into Christianity" are
more stable than those who are not? I can make a large number of arguments to
show that there are many facets of that faith that DESTABILIZE the personality.
I'm not here to bash Christians, but for someone to make an assertion that is
false on the face as you have done cannot go unchallenged.
> I leave this message, not as a criticism, but in hopes
> that many will respond to me and present evidence either
> in favor or against my above stated theory. I wish to
> learn more from those who might teach me.
I trust the above comments will get you started. I'm interested in seeing
hard, statistical answers to back up your generalities. I'm also interested in
anything in your background that would lend cedability to your opinions. It
may seem that I am attacking you personally. I am not. The attack is on
unsubstantiated generalities which you put forth as givens. I attack your
methods, and your reasons for making the post, not you as a person. The above
posts are made by me personally, and not in my role as echo coordinator.
Doug Rogers
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Abductions
Date: 2 Oct 91 14:30:00 GMT
> ON what basis do you state that most witnesses are inebriated or seeking
> attention. From my reading it is exactly the opposite - most witnesses
> are "normal" people who as often or not don't want to tell anyone what
> they saw for fear of ridicule. As to the religious aspects, again, I
> have seen nothing that would even provide a basis for formulating a
> theory of any substance in regard to the religiosity of witnesses. I
> will say however that one might wonder if the failure of religion to
> solve the complex problems of today might lead otherwise religious
> people to look for something more meaningful and something that works,
> i.e., UFOnaughts. I also don't see any evidence that mankind is
> regressing back to paganism althought I don't see much connection of
> that with UFO's one way or the other.
What elements would be required to formulate a theory?
Mike
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 2 Oct 91 14:36:00 GMT
> So, granted that UFOs really exist, the question becomes, "Are they
> hardware or not-so-hard ware?" Can't do much on where they come from
> without first figuring out what they are. And we really can't do much on
> their occupants either, other than indulge in pure speculation.
Given yours and Jim's breakdown, the question now becomes, "What do we do to
determine the various properties that the phenomenon represents?" Obviously,
Vallee feels that they do possess a property that exceeds what we feel to be
our physical bounds, but they have left phyysical traces, hence perhaps a
physical property. I assert that we must be looking at scientific ways to
measure and instrument the phenomenon. Unfortunately, stories and photographs
don't really give much information.
Mike
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Abductions
Date: 2 Oct 91 14:38:00 GMT
Please do not use a period as a line separator. It creates havoc for the
Internet mail software and causes serious problems, not to mention the amount
of hair on Cyro's floor as he tries to straighten things out. Cyro needs all
the hair he can get! :-)
Thanks for your cooperation.
Michael Corbin
Director
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: abductions
Date: 2 Oct 91 18:19:00 GMT
> Although UFOs obviously exist, as Vallee has pointed out, there really
> isn't much evidence that could prove that they're alien spacecraft. They
> seem less hardware and more "somthing else."
> So, anyway, I think we really need to seperate things even
> further....UFOs, the spacecraft question, and the ET question. One
> common problem is the perception that if you "buy" the existence of
> UFOs, you also "buy" the theory that they're alien spacecraft piloted by
> live aliens. That nuance isn't made very clear in most published
> material.
> Here in North America it's pretty much taken for granted that UFOs are
> spacecraft, but I think that reflects our hardware high-tech society
> more than any real evidence.
> So, granted that UFOs really exist, the question becomes, "Are they
> hardware or not-so-hard ware?" Can't do much on where they come from
> without first figuring out what they are. And we really can't do much on
> their occupants either, other than indulge in pure speculation.
Well stated, John, and I agree. I hope the "nuance" becomes clearer, but
unfortunately my many dealings with skeptics shows that there is still
ignorance on this issue. I am constantly forced to defend my stance that UFOs
are alien spaceships, when I haven't even come close to TAKING that stance.
Jim
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: abductions
Date: 2 Oct 91 18:34:00 GMT
> JS>I don't know where you've been looking, but evidence (not PROOF
> JS>- EVIDENCE) exists that demonstrates the existence of a phenomenon.
> JS>The phenomenon involves flying objects that have thus far not
> JS>been identified, even by our best scientists.
> .
> I have examined much evidence and not found anything really convincing.
> A few unexplained instances but that, in itself, does not necessarily
> mean UFOs.
Unexplained = Unidentified = UFO. Couldn't be much more clear-cut. "UFO" is a
transient term, a temporary name for that which (temporarily) has no name. It
is the goal of all who study this phenomenon, skeptic and believer, to put a
more permanent moniker on each UFO reported.
> .
> If you wish, I can upload some of the books I have read - lots - from
> the Ruppelt book to the modern Streiber books. Have been interested in
> UFOs since the age of 10 when the idea fascinated me.
Good to hear - and yes, I would like to see your book list.
> I will listen with interest to anything you care to share with me. I did
> specially order that book you told me to get which you felt very
> convincing - I felt it more of the same stuff I had read over and over -
> not real creditable witnesses,
What, in your opinion, compromised their creditability? What constitutes a
"creditable witness" in your mind? Perhaps a Christian priest? Plenty of those
in the database....
> ...ETs overly interested in sex (which they
> wouldn't be - sex is only exciting to us humans)
and many other higher forms of life, as Doug has pointed out. But that's not
the issue. Could it be that they are interested in sex, not in a voyeuristic
sense, but in a detached, empirical sense, much as we study the mating habits
of butterflies? (I'm not exactly turned on by watching butterflies getting it
on, and I doubt if many zoologists are).
> and very vague data.
Again, please define "vague" and what you would term "specific". If I remember
correctly, the book I recommended was "Uninvited Guests" by Hall? That contains
an entire appendix of specific cases with specific data that can be researched.
Jim
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: abductions
Date: 2 Oct 91 18:40:00 GMT
> JS> But that's issue #2. For now, issue #1 is on the table. I can, and
> JS> will, show you videotapes of objects that A) evade explanation by
> JS> ordinary means, B) exhibit aerodynamic properties we are not yet
> JS> capable of, and C) SEEM to exhibit intelligent guidance. Once that's
> Is there enough of those videotapes to release a documentary
> pointing out that something unidentified exists, and to ask for a
> serious scientific inquiry?
There's maybe three or four very fascinating ones. Whether or not that
constitutes enough for a documentary, I don't know. I know that they call for
in-depth analysis, which could make for an interesting documentary (to me at
least).
> I mean, if there was such a collection of those videotaped objects
> grouped together and presented, and somehow gets on national TV, I don't
> see how people would ignore such evidence that would lead one to ask,
> "What ARE these objects?". I do not mean saying "Oh, these are alien
> spacecraft!", but "What are those objects?".
Tyson
As far as I know, all of these tapes have appeared on TV at some time or
another. One of them was on the recent Ron Reagan show (I don't know too much
about that one, but it LOOKS good at first glance - don't hold me to it if it
turns out to be a hoax). No one on the program even commented on the tape. Same
thing with Kanazawa - it was on CBS Evening News, but Connie Chung just smiled
and gave the obligatory "I-don't-believe-I-just-read-the-news" look. Tracy
Torme recently asked me about that tape, and expressed his frustration that no
one is pointing to it as a major mystery. So who knows what people will do,
even if we thrust a videotape in their face, they're likely to say, "Gee,
that's a mystery all right. Now let's see what the Cardinals are up to."
Jim
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 2 Oct 91 21:18:00 GMT
>> So, granted that UFOs really exist, the question becomes, "Are they
>> hardware or not-so-hard ware?" Can't do much on where they come from
>> without first figuring out what they are. And we really can't do much on
>> their occupants either, other than indulge in pure speculation.
> Given yours and Jim's breakdown, the question now becomes, "What do we
> do to determine the various properties that the phenomenon represents?"
> Obviously, Vallee feels that they do possess a property that exceeds
> what we feel to be our physical bounds, but they have left phyysical
> traces, hence perhaps a physical property. I assert that we must be
> looking at scientific ways to measure and instrument the phenomenon.
> Unfortunately, stories and photographs don't really give much
> information.
This seems to be what I'm up against in the SCIENCE forum. They've gone from
telling me that UFOs are nonsense to telling me that, OK, UFOs exist, so what?
If you can't measure them or quantify them somehow, they are of no use to
science. They seem to forget that it shouldn't be up to us duffers to try and
develop ways of scientifically quantifying UFOs, it should be up to those
whose science degrees and federal grants we have for so long footed the bill.
I like to come back to the ball lightning analogy. Suppose a bunch of witnesses
come to Science saying, we've seen ball lightning. At first they get told that
they're crazy (which they did). Then they get told that, well, OK, prove it.
So they bring in photos. Then they get told, well, OK, we acknowledge the
phenomenon, but there's nothing we can do about it until YOU do the
measurements and the rest of the science. THEN we'll tell you what's
happening. To Science's credit, this did NOT happen; scientists (finally!)
jumped into the ball lightning fray and apparently have duplicated it under
lab conditions. So why can't they do something similar with UFOs? Why should
it be up to us?
Jim
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From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Alan Godfrey Case
Date: 2 Oct 91 21:26:00 GMT
> The Alan Godfrey case is featured extensively in a book called the
> Pennine UFO Mystery by Jenny Randles, published around 1983. Basically
> early one morning Alan was patrolling in his car near Todmorden in
> Yorkshire. He came across a large UFO with what he described (I am
> working from memory here) as a series of windows across the middle.
> When he arrived back at the Police Station he appeared to have been
> away around 15minutes longer than he expected. He described a circular
> dry patch (on the wet road) just below where the UFO hovered.
What made the case interesting to me was that when Godfrey came to, he found
himself in a pasture full of cows, where there should be none. All night the
local constabulary had been receiving reports of cows wandering around. Its of
interest to me because it correlates with an abduction case here in Arizona
that was brought to my attention, and possibly with other cases. What IS the
fascination with cows, I wonder?
Jim
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: FPP Research
Date: 4 Oct 91 03:50:00 GMT
I have been asked to post details of the recent article Bob
Bartholomew and I co-authored with George Howard. The article, titled:
"UFO abductees and contactees:Psychopathology or fantasy proneness?"
appeared in Vol 22 No 3 pp215-222 of "Professional Psychology:Research
and Practice."
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****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!abduct
Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com
Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 28
Thursday, October 10th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: abductions
Re: Abductions
Abductions
abductions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 6 Oct 91 05:18:00 GMT
I'd agree that man is always searching for someone/thing to explain the
unexplained to him and that search has included religion and may
account for some UFO thinking.
Having read most of the UFO classics myself I think your assesement
of most people who report UFO's as being inebriated or seeking
attention simply is not supported by the literature. Note that "most"
implies something in excess of 50%.
And as to why a UFOnaut might be more meaningful then God - the
answer seems obvious to me. God is all talk and no action and many
people are ready for some action and are hoping the ETs will supply it.
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From: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: Abductions
Date: 6 Oct 91 05:24:00 GMT
RE: Formulating a theory on religosity of the witnesses.
For starters, someone would have to have been collecting data on the
religious background and beliefs and habits of the witnesses. The
already lengthy investigation form would have to have questions of:
What is your religion, when did you last go to church, do you hold
stronger relgious views now or were they stronger 10 years ago, do you
know the name of your pastor, have you ever changed religions, how
often, why, and on and on. It is entirely possible that one might find
a correlation between relgious belief (or lack thereof) and observation
of a UFO. One of the problems of UFOlogy is that it trys to
investigate EVERY aspect and winds up without proper data to draw
conclusions on ANY aspect.
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 7 Oct 91 01:00:00 GMT
> I assert that we must be
> looking at scientific ways to measure and instrument the phenomenon.
> Unfortunately, stories and photographs don't really give much
> information.
That's for sure. Since we can't scientifically examine the "woo-woo" factor,
we should concentrate on what we can examine; what physical traces or effects
that are found. It may be the tail of the tiger, but at least it's a piece.
The stories etc. can be filed away for the time when maybe we can examine
that stuff on a scientific rather than a belief-based basis.
jbh
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: abductions
Date: 7 Oct 91 01:02:01 GMT
> I am constantly forced to defend my stance that
> UFOs are alien spaceships, when I haven't even come close to TAKING that
> stance.
Yeah, I know what you mean. When so many ufologists and hangers-on assume
UFOs are alien spaceships, it seems only natural that skeptics argue against
alien spaceships.
jbh
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Abduction Digest, Number 29
Wednesday, October 16th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: abductions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tyson.Mitchiner@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tyson Mitchiner)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 8 Oct 91 08:04:48 GMT
JS> As far as I know, all of these tapes have appeared on TV at some time
JS> or another. One of them was on the recent Ron Reagan show (I don't
JS> know too much about that one, but it LOOKS good at first glance -
JS> don't hold me to it if it turns out to be a hoax). No one on the
JS> program even commented on the tape. Same thing with Kanazawa - it was
JS> on CBS Evening News, but Connie Chung just smiled and gave the
JS> obligatory "I-don't-believe-I-just-read-the-news" look. Tracy Torme
JS> recently asked me about that tape, and expressed his frustration that
JS> no one is pointing to it as a major mystery. So who knows what people
JS> will do, even if we thrust a videotape in their face, they're likely
JS> to say, "Gee, that's a mystery all right. Now let's see what the
JS> Cardinals are up to."
JS> Jim
I see your point. In my opinion, the problem is that people do not like
"mysteries". They like definite, "We know what it is" type of news.
When the two "hoaxers" came out, the media covered it because it was sort
of the "Ah, so it was a hoax after all" type. They dont want to report
news that says "There are a few objects going across the sky, but we have
absolutely NO idea what it is".
So, I guess it's up to us to unlock the mystery, despite the skepticism
and ridicule. In my opinion, it seems we've made the biggest strides
into this than we have in any other decade. Hopefully, we're close to
a breakthrough.
Tyson
.. From an explorer.........
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Abduction Digest, Number 30
Monday, October 21st 1991
Today's Topics:
An Old Editorial
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Re: Abductions
abductions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: An Old Editorial
Date: 17 Oct 91 22:17:00 GMT
Thought y'all might get a kick out of this article I wrote way back in '88,
when I first heard of the Fantasy-Prone Hypothesis. Its not as well-written as
I would have liked, but I was bit PO'd at the time, so forgive me....
--------------
PARANET EDITORIAL: THE SNOBS AMONG US
by Jim Speiser
As I have stated before on many occasions, the idea that abduction
experiences represent objectively real encounters with extraterrestrials
represents an hypothesis, one that must be evaluated and weighed against
other hypotheses or alternative "explanations." In terms of true scientif-
ic objectivity, no one hypothesis has any more weight than any other un-
less it can be shown to be more consistent with our knowledge and with all
the pertinent facts. A psychological explanation is no more valid than any
other simply by virtue of having been proposed by a more mainstream psych-
ologist; it must prove itself on the weight of the evidence. Occam's ra-
zor, however, dictates that more mundane, less extravagant explanations
must be evaluated and discarded before we can fully accept the more outre'
scenarios into the hallowed halls of "knowledge." You have to start some-
where.
Abduction specialists such as Budd Hopkins have long paid much lip-
service to their efforts to investigate the more subjective explanations
such as delusion or fantasy, and so I am curious as to how he and they
will react to the article in the Winter 1987/88 edition of the Skeptical
Inquirer, entitled "The Aliens Among Us: Hypnotic Regression Revisited,"
by University of Kentucky psychologist Robert A. Baker. While the article
is flawed in many respects, it compensates by offering the hypothesis
outlined in the following extract:
<<
If these abductees were given...intensive diagnostic testing it
is highly likely that many similarities would emerge--particularly
an unusual personality pattern that Wilson and Barber (1983) have
categorized as "fantasy-prone." In an important but much neglected
article, they report in some detail their discovery of a group of
excellent hypnotic subjects with unusual fantasy abilities. In their
words:
Although this study provided a broader understanding of the kind
of life experiences that may underlie the ability to be an ex-
cellent hypnotic subject, it has also led to a serendipitous
finding that has wide implications for all of psychology -- it
has shown that there exists a small group of individuals (pos-
sibly 4% of the population) who fantasize a large part of the
time, who typically "see," "hear," "smell," and "touch" and
fully experience what they fantasize; and who can be labeled
fantasy-prone personalities.
<< Wilson and Barber also stress that such individuals experience a
reduction in orientation to time, place, and person that is charac-
teristic of hypnosis or trance during their daily lives whenever
they are deeply involved in a fantasy. They also have experiences
during their daily ongoing lives that resemble the classical hypno-
tic phenomena. In other words, the behavior we would normally call
"hypnotic" is exhibited by these fantasy-prone types (FPs) all the
time. In Wilson and Barber's words: "When we give them 'hypnotic
suggestions,' such as for visual and auditory hallucinations, nega-
tive hallucinations, age regression, limb rigidity, anesthesia, and
sensory hallucinations, we are asking them to do for us the kind of
thing they can do independently of us in their daily lives."
<< The reason we do not run into these types more often is that
they have learned long ago to be highly secretive and private about
their fantasy lives. Whenever the FPs do encounter a hypnosis situa-
tion it provides them with a social situation in which they are en-
couraged to do, and are rewarded for doing, what they usually do on-
ly in secrecy and in private. Wilson and Barber also emphasize that
regression and the reliving of previous experiences is something
that virtually all the FPs do naturally in their daily lives. When
they recall the past, they relive it to a surprisingly vivid extent,
and they all have vivid memories of their experiences extending back
to their early years.
>>
While there are many aspects of the abduction syndrome left unex-
plained by this scenario, it appears to be a description of a personality
type that is consistent with some of the more famous "abductees," such as
Whitley Streiber. While researching his two books, Budd Hopkins retained
the expertise of psychologist Aphrodite Clamar, who administered psycho-
logical evaluation tests to nine abduction percipients, all of whom proved
to be normal, sane individuals. The point Baker makes, however, is that
these FPs ARE ALSO SANE, and would no doubt pass such a test. He further
claims that there are more stringent tests designed to weed out such FPs,
and I maintain that, in the interest of true scientific objectivity, it is
incumbent upon researchers such as Hopkins to arrange to have such a test
administered to another group of abduction claimants. We have been provid-
ed with an earthly alternative; we owe it to the public, to the skeptics,
to other researchers, and to the claimants themselves (who Hopkins claims
are actually quite fearful of the ETH) to investigate fully this new pos-
sibility.
There is another, admittedly more selfish and spiteful reason to
objectively evaluate the "FPH." Baker, typical of many CSICOP "hit-men,"
has succumbed to snobbery and unabashedly claims the intellectual high
ground in his article. He was doing just fine until his "Consequences and
Summary" section. Some quotes typify his attitude: "Need we be concerned
about an invasion of little gray kidnappers? Amused, yes. Concerned, no."
"Should we take Streiber, Hopkins, Kinder, et al. seriously? Not really."
"Tolerance IS the mark of a civilized mind." Well, BLESS you, Prof. Baker.
You seem to forget, however, that YOUR hypothesis has not been tested,
either, and consequently you have as yet no legitimate claim to being
"right." And as I stated before, your article is flawed. It doesn't take
into account the physical evidence, such as scarring, landing traces, and
"exoglyphic exemplars." It relies heavily on generalizations and quoting
of previous studies which only tangentially impact the abduction scenario.
And it weakly waves off the marked similarities between abduction ac-
counts.
If testing of the FPH should provide a clear indication that a psych-
ological explanation is warranted, I fully expect abduction researchers to
acknowledge that their hypothesizing of alien intervention stands on weak-
ened legs. If, however, the results of such testing show no such correla-
tion, I would appreciate it if Prof. Baker and other debunkers would
propose solutions in a more detached, even-handed, level-headed manner
more becoming of the TRULY civilized. Failing this, I would appreciate it
if they would kindly shutup.
<<>>
Copyright (c)1988 National Fringe Sciences Information Service. All rights
reserved.
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 20 Oct 91 08:01:00 GMT
>Would you not agree, using this criteria, that the same might be
>said of the savior of the christian faith, his desiples, and last
>but not least, one certain Paul, whose dreams opened the faith for
>the Gentiles?
No, because Paul didn't really say he was chosen. He was merely
interested in sharing what he felt to be the message about Jesus. And
no, Jesus did not show any schizophrenia. He was rather normal, as a
matter of fact until He somehow managed to raise Himself from the dead
(or at least, really convince a bunch of people of such event, to the
point that they became very dedicated). Keep in mind, this story of
Jesus has not died out over 2000 years. You might find a book by
Bishop Sheen, entitled THE LIFE OF CHRIST rather interesting.
> > Descriptions of examinations are often confusing and described
> > as if these aliens, possessing a far greater technology
> > than ours, are rather primitive in the methods of examination.
>
>From this, I assume that the contents of a modern operating room
>would make sense to you if you suddenly woke up and found yourself
>there without remembering the trip?
Doesn't answer the above point..
>I'd be interested in seeing a statistical breakdown of the percentages
>of cases wherein investigators have given credence to drunken
sightings.
>As one trained in psychology, I find your last comment extremely
>interesting. How do you come to the conclusion that people who
>see the unexplainable are
>"lacking in stability?"
Not a conclusion *I* came to but one observed by several writers.
>It is my personal opinion that the above paragraph summizes your
>REAL agenda in making this post. Why do you feel that people who
>are "into Christianity" are more stable than those who are not?
>I can make a large number of arguments to show that there are many
>facets of that faith that DESTABILIZE the personality. I'm not here
>to bash Christians, but for someone to make an assertion that is
>false on the face as you have done cannot go unchallenged.
It has been observed by psychologists that people who have a religious
orientation tend to deal with disability and age better than those who
don't. Also, Bill W., the founder of AA makes a rather impressive case
that atheistic beliefs caused alot of his problems. People who join AA
and embrace the Deistic orientation tend to deal with their lives
better than they did before joining.
>I trust the above comments will get you started. I'm interested
>in seeing hard, statistical answers to back up your generalities.
>I'm also interested in anything in your background that would lend
>cedability to your opinions. It may seem that I am attacking you
>personally. I am not. The attack is on unsubstantiated generalities
>which you put forth as givens. I attack your methods, and your
>reasons for making the post, not you as a person. The above posts
>are made by me personally, and not in my role as echo coordinator.
I didn't feel your message was attacking at all. I have expressed the
fact that what I posted was my impression from the books I had read. I
am interested in reading the 'other side' and would be interested in
your presenting some evidence to refute what I have stated.
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 20 Oct 91 08:07:00 GMT
>What, in your opinion, compromised their creditability? What constitutes a
>"creditable witness" in your mind? Perhaps a Christian priest? Plenty
>of those in the database....
Golly, Jim, I'm not that biased. No... it isn't what a witness does -
it's more HOW he observes what happened, how subjective and relational
he is (as opposed to logical), how emotionally involved etc etc.
>Again, please define "vague" and what you would term "specific".
>If I remember correctly, the book I recommended was "Uninvited Guests"
>by Hall? That contains an entire appendix of specific cases with
>specific data that can be researched.
Don't know how else I can put that. The book you suggested for me, was
more of the same stuff I had read before. Vague data i.e. not really
factual but more emotional observations. Highly emoutional imaginative
witnesses. etc.
Will upload biobliography soon (as soon I as type it in as it's on the
MAC and I don't have a modem on that machine at present...
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 20 Oct 91 08:09:00 GMT
> And as to why a UFOnaut might be more meaningful then God - the
>answer seems obvious to me. God is all talk and no action and many
>people are ready for some action and are hoping the ETs will supply
>it.
Actually, people would tend to THINK something humanoid would be more
action than God just because we have an easier time conceiving of
something humanoid.
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From: Clark.Matthews@p1.f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: abductions
Date: 21 Oct 91 10:30:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Delton <20 Oct 91 01:09> Sue Widemark wrote:
>> And as to why a UFOnaut might be more meaningful then God - the
>>answer seems obvious to me. God is all talk and no action and many
>>people are ready for some action and are hoping the ETs will supply
>>it.
Oh, I don't know. The God of Moses knew all about leyden jars ... er, the Ark
of the Covenant, I mean.
But then old Horus apparently knew a bit about storage batteries and
incandescent lighting. And airfoils. Too bad they never hooked up and formed
a grid.
SW> Actually, people would tend to THINK something humanoid would be
SW> more action than God just because we have an easier time
SW> conceiving of something humanoid.
Well, I think that what we're dealing with here could turn out to be the "God
of a Thousand Faces". From the Red Sea miracle to Fatima, there's every
indication that alien "gods" can play the role of ultimate imposters and
peerless imposers of their own "miracles".
What interests me is that some of these interpretations show a deeply spiritual
side (both good and evil), and others are patently, deliberately bogus --
almost designed to dash the expectations they raise.
Best,
Clark
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Abduction Digest, Number 31
Thursday, October 31st 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: abductions
abductions
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Schuyler@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 23 Oct 91 05:37:00 GMT
In a message to Doug Rogers <10-20-91 01:01> Sue Widemark wrote:
SW> >false on the face as you have done cannot go unchallenged.
SW> .
SW> It has been observed by psychologists that people who have a
SW> religious orientation tend to deal with disability and age better
SW> than those who don't. Also, Bill W., the founder of AA makes a
SW> rather impressive case that atheistic beliefs caused alot of his
SW> problems. People who join AA and embrace the Deistic orientation
SW> tend to deal with their lives better than they did before joining.
But, of course! They are so well hypnotized. The same can be said of people
on Thorazine! AA gives STRUCTURE, as does religion. Nothing really wrong
with that, particularly since the average IQ is 100 (a tautology, I know!
:-) All you got to do is joing this neat family of people who will listen to
you, nurture you, and understand your terrible problems with reality.
Besides, if you believe it's a disease, then it really isn't your
responsibility anyway. Only problem is when these folks demand everyone else
pop these Thorazine pills, too. Frankly, I';d ratehr be kidnapped by a grey.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Clark.Matthews@p1.f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: abductions
Date: 25 Oct 91 23:12:00 GMT
MS> But, of course! They are so well hypnotized. The same can be said
MS> of people on Thorazine! AA gives STRUCTURE, as does religion.
Sure, along with the military, prison, and the Fortune 100.
MS> Nothing really wrong with that, particularly since the average IQ
MS> is 100 (a tautology, I know! :-) All you got to do is joing this
MS> neat family of people who will listen to you, nurture you, and
MS> understand your terrible problems with reality. Besides, if you
MS> believe it's a disease, then it really isn't your responsibility
MS> anyway. Only problem is when these folks demand everyone else pop
MS> these Thorazine pills, too. Frankly, I';d ratehr be kidnapped by a grey.
Does this have anything to do with abductions or abduction research?
If alcoholism, drug dependency, deism, and/or diminished responsibility have a
high profile in abduction reports/regressions, I'd love to see some evidence.
If not, I hope we can leave the railing about pill-pushing to the
Scientologists.
Best,
Clark
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From: Michael.Schuyler@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 27 Oct 91 22:56:00 GMT
In a message to Michael Schuyler <10-25-91 16:12> Clark Matthews wrote:
CM> a grey.
CM> Does this have anything to do with abductions or abduction research?
CM>
CM> If alcoholism, drug dependency, deism, and/or diminished
CM> responsibility have a high profile in abduction reports/regressions,
CM> I'd love to see some evidence.
CM>
CM> If not, I hope we can leave the railing about pill-pushing to the
CM> Scientologists.
Clark,
To get a full sense of my post you might want to page back and see what it
is a response to, then you might go a little easier on me. I suppose this
has as much to do with abduction research as my dealings with the NIS have
to do with UFO research, which you have asked me to elaborate on.
Cheers,
--Michael
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Rogers)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 26 Oct 91 02:26:18 GMT
> .
> I didn't feel your message was attacking at all. I have
> expressed the fact that what I posted was my impression
> from the books I had read. I am interested in reading the
> 'other side' and would be interested in your presenting
> some evidence to refute what I have stated.
>
What you have stated are your unsubstantiated opinions. How am I to refute
them? Your response still lacks specific evidence. I would suggest that any
"evidence" based on an unprovable "belief system" is going to be called suspect
by any scientifically based researcher, myself included.
It is not my place to "refute" a charge which has had no evidence presented.
Your citation to the AA founder is an interesting account of another single
person's experiences. It does NOT show basis in fact.
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Abduction Digest, Number 32
Wednesday, November 13th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: abductions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 8 Nov 91 07:37:00 GMT
>What you have stated are your unsubstantiated opinions. How am I
>to refute them? Your response still lacks specific evidence. I
>would suggest that any
>"evidence" based on an unprovable "belief system" is going to be
>called suspect by any scientifically based researcher, myself
included.
So you say UFO's are more believable than God? Interesting...
{sue} {Cheese Whiz BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400 baud}
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Abduction Digest, Number 33
Wednesday, November 20th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: abductions
David Jacobs
David Jacobs
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From: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Rogers)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 15 Nov 91 08:34:49 GMT
>
> So you say UFO's are more believable than God? Interesting...
>
<ahem>
Did I say that? No, I didn't. And I think it is shameful of you to use such
a cheap shot in replying to me. (and it WAS a VERY CHEAP shot). This is the
same as asking me "When did you stop beating your wife?"
I will, however, address your comment.
Last time I checked, the most recent sighting of the deity by a large number of
witnesses is of somewhat greater antiquity than the current sightings of
Unidentified Flying Objects. This is very convenient for your arguments: There
are no witnesses left to interogate. The only thing we have to go on is a
record left by biased reporters who were eager to place their own
interpretation on events they could not explain.
Even if you wish to make the same assertions in connection with the large group
of scientists who are currently investigating unexplained aerial events, I am
left with the assertion that since the events we study on this network are
either current or of recent ventage, we have a significantly greater
possibility of getting at the truth of what these events really are than do
those who wish to explain it using ancient mythologies.
One of the cornerstones of logical thought is "Age is no argument for
accuracy." Many of our beliefs were forged at a time when much less was known
than is now known. If you wish to cling to such a belief, you must be
absolutely certain that no new facts have come to light that call the belief
into question. This is impossible. Anyone who attempts to explain current
events with ancient philosophy is doomed from day one.
What I'd REALLY like for you to state is what your REAL AGENDA in posting here
is. If it is to contribute factual information or rational analysis, then
please join us and do so. If you are here to bible thump, allow me to
recommend any of a dozen fine Christian echos that would love to have your
posts.
I'm still waiting to hear something from you other than unfounded assertions
based on your religious beliefs. I'm tired of wasting bandwidth on this
business. Religious discussions ALWAYS end in a flamefest of the "my God and
beat up your God" variety, and have no place in a serious discussion such as
the one we are attempting to carry on.
--
Doug Rogers - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: David Jacobs
Date: 16 Nov 91 05:01:03 GMT
For all of those wondering about the status of Dr. David M. Jacobs
as ParaNet (sm) abduction moderator, I post the following extracted
from a letter I just received:
"...As of now, I am not the ParaNet abduction moderator. The main
problem, as far as I can tell, is that getting a node for me in
Philadelphia has proved to be more difficult than had been thought.
The first one lasted for quite a while, but then something happened
to the fellow's hard disk who was running the node, and that was
that. Another node lasted a very short time, and I am not sure what
happened then, but I noticed that virtually nobody was using the
abduction bulletin board to talk with me. So, my guess is that it
died for lack of interest. Actually, I hope Michael Corbin can re-
establish a node because I thought it was fun while it lasted...
...Budd (Hopkins) and I would very much like to have a series of
training conferences around the country, but the pressure of work
(abduction and otherwise) have made that desire seem more and more
like only a dream. Perhaps after my book comes out in March we will
have some more time to put something like that into effect....."
(signed) David M. Jacobs
Come on people, let's get Dave back on line. It shouldn't be
THAT difficult. Perhaps he can be setup as a point?
Regards to all,
Sheldon
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: David Jacobs
Date: 18 Nov 91 13:22:00 GMT
> Come on people, let's get Dave back on line. It shouldn't be
> THAT difficult. Perhaps he can be setup as a point?
Thank you for posting an update for us, Sheldon. As a matter of fact, we are
testing a new link in the Philadelphia area even as we speak and it should be
functional in very short order.
Mike
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Abduction Digest, Number 34
Thursday, December 5th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: abductions
abductions
Abduction research
abductions
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From: John.Powell@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 27 Nov 91 04:22:00 GMT
-=> Quoting Sue Widemark to Doug Rogers <=-
>What you have stated are your unsubstantiated opinions. How am I
>to refute them? Your response still lacks specific evidence. I
>would suggest that any
>"evidence" based on an unprovable "belief system" is going to be
>called suspect by any scientifically based researcher, myself included.
SW>
SW> So you say UFO's are more believable than God? Interesting...
There is currently more observational evidence to support the existence of
UFos as a phenomenon worthy of study than there is observational evidence
to support the existence of an alleged being, a supreme being...
John.
... Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.
--
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From: Dieter.Hummel@f4.n1021.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Dieter Hummel)
Subject: abductions
Date: 22 Nov 91 08:33:00 GMT
>
> So you say UFO's are more believable than God? Interesting...
>
I would say, the probability that UFO's really exist is higher...
cheers
*Dieter*
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 29 Nov 91 02:58:00 GMT
I would certainly support the call to see if we can get David Jacobs
online. I for one would certainly like to stimulate more discussion on
current abduction research. You may be aware that I have been
suggesting the investigation of psychological explanations before we
commit ourselves to more exotic explanations. However, this is only a
working, testable hypothesis. Whatever, the outcome the subject is
fascinating and demands research.
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From: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose)
Subject: abductions
Date: 30 Nov 91 16:21:00 GMT
>>
>> So you say UFO's are more believable than God? Interesting...
>>
DH> I would say, the probability that UFO's really exist is higher...
I would say they are both improbable...but UFOs are easier to look for. :)
--
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Abduction Digest, Number 35
Saturday, December 14th 1991
Today's Topics:
Commumion
Re: abductions
Re: Commumion
Re: abductions
ASW Karten
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Bible
The Watchers
Strieber
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From: Aaron.Harkins@f300.n238.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Aaron Harkins)
Subject: Commumion
Date: 6 Dec 91 01:41:26 GMT
Great book!
---+++++---
(Aaron Harkins)
----+++++----
--
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From: Bob.Martin@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Martin)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 9 Dec 91 06:29:00 GMT
I dn't believe in hassling atheists or agnostics; however, everyone
agrees that there are at the very least "principles" of some sort that
allow existence. I call the "principles" God. Sure, it smacks of
semantics, but give it some thought...you may reply that these
principles are not sentient nor self-aware, as most folks require of a
supreme being; but what is sentience? All of existence is the
"sentience" of the "principles"...maybe...
The thing is, if you give this argument any credence at all, you
acknowledge a -constant- presence of God...
--
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From: Bob.Martin@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Martin)
Subject: Re: Commumion
Date: 9 Dec 91 06:36:00 GMT
A friend of mine bought a house near Whitley Streiber's (said friend is
also a writer). Streiber subsequently told a third party (who reported
back to my friend) that Streiber was convinced that said friend was
peering into Streiber's windows at night, trying to steal ideas. Have
you read any of Streiber's fiction? Like L.Ron Hubbard, Streiber was
writing some of the same stuff -as fiction- years before trying to pass
it off as fact.
--
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From: Bob.Martin@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Martin)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 9 Dec 91 06:38:00 GMT
Whoops! I didn't realize that your quote came from the famous Sue
Wide-of-the-Mark when I wrote my reply. I suppose she'll accuse me of
the Pantheistic Heresy. I plead Guilty.
--
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From: Michael.Passler@f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Passler)
Subject: ASW Karten
Date: 30 Nov 91 00:34:00 GMT
Hallo,
kann mir irgendjemand sagen oedr besser vielleicht schreiben, wo man in
Deutschland ASW Karten (Stern, Kreuz, Wellenlineien usw.) bekommen kann?
Am besten natrlich in Berlin.
Vielen Dank im Vorraus,
Michael
--
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From: Morgan.David@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Morgan David)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 10 Dec 91 08:16:00 GMT
AHH But what if one does not believe in a Supreme Being separate from
oneself. What if they believe and therefore have proof to themselves
that GODDESS exists! And what if they also have proof to themselves
that UFO's exist and abductions occur. Whether or not anyone else
believes them is inconsequential, because you need prove nothing to no
one.
BB
Morgan
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From: Morgan.David@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Morgan David)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 10 Dec 91 08:22:00 GMT
Thanks for your post! I have a question for you.... Is it not
possible that the Gods of the Ancient peoples were perhaps
Non-terrestrial beings who were here at that time....we really have no
proof one way or the other, but it is theoretically possible, isn't it?
Morgan
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From: Aaron.Harkins@f300.n238.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Aaron Harkins)
Subject: Bible
Date: 12 Dec 91 05:00:39 GMT
The Bible is a very large book of UFO
stories. Many things could be explained
by visitors from other planets. Would
not we seem as gods to a primitive
culture with our science and medicine,
although beings capable of long distance
space travel would have a much more
advanced amount of science?
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: The Watchers
Date: 13 Dec 91 03:45:00 GMT
Has any one read "The Watchers" by Raymond Fowler, or "Perspectives"
by John Spencer? If so, any comments?
--
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Strieber
Date: 13 Dec 91 04:50:00 GMT
Bob, Hi, you asked about Striber's fiction writings. I read his book
"Cat Magic" which was published in 1987 by Grafton, of London England.
There are some parallels to "Communion" and "Transformation." Examples
are:-
1. Page 26 "One of her most treasured talents was the ability to have
detailed visualizations on demand. But they never came like this,
unbidden. And yet, despite the fact that she was healthy and not in
the least tired, she found herself in the grip of just such an
uncalled vision." Compare this to Strieber's entity visits and his
numerous comments on the detailed, coloured, 3D imagery he
experienced.
2. Page 141. Character Tom the Cat.
"He could feel the faint rush of microwaves from the newly installed
motion detector in the centre of the room...when he wanted Dr Walker
to come in here, he would trip the alarm, but not until then." Compare
this to the visitors ability to fail to trip Striber's burgular alarm
in his cabin.
3. page 288. The character Mandy is "dead" after being experimented
on. A fly lands on her and lays its eggs: "...in the cathedral of her
left nostril." Where do abductees reckon the needle is inserted, up
through the nose.
Bob, also worth looking out for is Strieber's latest novel: "The
Wild",1991 Futura books, London. It's about a man who turns into a
wolf. Some interesting comments in it about Earth and co-existing
entities-wolves.
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Abduction Digest, Number 36
Friday, December 20th 1991
Today's Topics:
Re: Bible
Re: Strieber
abductions
Strieber
abductions
abductions
Re: abductions
Research
Research
Abduction Research
Research
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From: Bob.Martin@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Martin)
Subject: Re: Bible
Date: 14 Dec 91 16:57:00 GMT
Actually, primitives don't mistake more "advanced" societies for gods
in most instances; they simply consider them mortals with bigger magic.
An accurate perseption, in my view, since science is just another
religion (just as religion, before science, -was- science - and
-remains- science for some).
--
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From: Bob.Martin@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Martin)
Subject: Re: Strieber
Date: 17 Dec 91 03:01:00 GMT
Thanks for the info, though I was more interested in pointing out the
hazy line between fact and fantasy for Streiber, than I was in further
exploring it. The fact is, I don't car for his fiction much, and I'm
not sure that he's ever written any non-fiction <g>!
I'm not a complete skeptic, but Streiber strikes me as less plausible
than, say, Uri Geller.
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: abductions
Date: 17 Dec 91 05:10:00 GMT
> DH> I would say, the probability that UFO's really exist is higher...
>
>
> I would say they are both improbable...but UFOs are easier
> to look for. :)
>
Sure -- the Belgian Air Force has some interesting tracking
tapes, for starters...
Best,
Clark
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Strieber
Date: 17 Dec 91 05:17:00 GMT
> Bob, Hi, you asked about Striber's fiction writings. I read
> his book "Cat Magic" which was published in 1987 by
> Grafton, of London England. There are some parallels to
> "Communion" and "Transformation." Examples are:-
Interesting stuff -- I read his novels as an acquisitions editor
about 10 years ago (met him briefly at a couple of publishing
drink 'em ups) and I share your opinion.
A lot of the form-changing, manitou-like stuff he ascribes to
his "aliens" can also be found in The Wolfen, among other books.
A less-known fact is the unsavory reputation that attached itself
to Mr. Strieber and his wife in the 3 years prior to Communion.
They formed a literary consulting service for budding writers,
the principal was Mrs. Strieber, and several unsatisfied
customers left with complaints of a squeezed-out bestselling
author stealing ideas from unpublished folks.
Apropos you last comment...
> Bob, also worth looking out for is Strieber's latest novel:
> "The Wild",1991 Futura books, London. It's about a man who
> turns into a wolf. Some interesting comments in it about
> Earth and co-existing entities-wolves.
Yes, all present in his pre-UFO iconography.
So's the sinister secret government/private security firm stuff.
I think the Streiber story is 100% whole cloth. (Holed cloth?)
Best,
Clark
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: abductions
Date: 17 Dec 91 05:32:00 GMT
> AHH But what if one does not believe in a Supreme Being
> separate from oneself...
In other words, you're God? Which god? Jehovah? Satan? Lucifer?
Do you have to choose, or can you mix 'n match? (I've always
though that belief systems should be like The Gap, yasee)
> What if they believe and therefore
> have proof to themselves that GODDESS exists!
Who dat?? More to the point, whut dat doin' in the UFO abductions echo???
> And what if
> they also have proof to themselves that UFO's exist and
> abductions occur.
Wait, this is important!!! If you have such proofs, please send
them immediately to Mr. Phillip J. Klass, c/o Aviation Week
Magazine, Washington, DC
Tell him Walt sent ya.
> Whether or not anyone else believes them
> is inconsequential, because you need prove nothing to no
> one.
Three cheers for solipsism! Hip Hip... huh?!?!?!
Thank You for Sharing That With Us! And a very festive Sawain
to you and Mr. Goddess, and all the little smurfs, too.
Cheerio! -- And Very *Best* wishes to all the other folks at St.
Catherines!
Clark
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: abductions
Date: 17 Dec 91 05:40:00 GMT
> Thanks for your post! I have a question for you.... Is it
> not possible that the Gods of the Ancient peoples were
> perhaps Non-terrestrial beings who were here at that
> time....we really have no proof one way or the other, but
> it is theoretically possible, isn't it?
We have very little proof today that they're non-terrestrial.
They could be extradimensional.
Best,
Clark
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From: Carl.Aztec@f70.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Carl Aztec)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 17 Dec 91 06:38:16 GMT
> I dn't believe in hassling atheists or agnostics;
> however, everyone agrees that there are at the very
> least "principles" of some sort that allow existence.
> I call the "principles" God. Sure, it smacks of
> semantics, but give it some thought...you may reply
> that these principles are not sentient nor self-aware,
> as most folks require of a supreme being; but what is
> sentience? All of existence is the "sentience" of the
> "principles"...maybe...
Theosophy - well that's what it sounds like. The
Theosophical Society was started in 1875 by Mme. H.P.
Blavatsky.
One of the "fundamental propositions" is:
1. An Omnipresent, Eternal, Boundless and immutable PRINCIPLE, on which all
speculation is impossible ... beyond the range and reach of
thought.
(You're probably wondering about the other 2 propositions -
OK - here they are:)
2. The Eternity of the Universe in toto is a boundless
plane, periodically the 'playground of numberless Universes
incessantly manifesting and disappearing'...
(shades of alternate dimensions! but an interesting concept
especially coming from an 1875 woman)
3. The fundamental identity of all Souls with the Universal
Oversoul ... and the obligatory pilgrimate for every Soul
... through the cycle of Incarnation (or 'Necessity') in
accordance with cyclic and karmic law.
That Bob, is the sum total of my knowledge of Theosophy
however, there are many books available on the subject if
you wanted to persue it.
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Research
Date: 15 Dec 91 17:03:00 GMT
Is anyone in this folder actually conducting research into abductions?
There seems almost no discussion for which the folder was created. I'm
happy to chat to anyone who can swop abduction material.
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Research
Date: 18 Dec 91 15:14:00 GMT
> Is anyone in this folder actually conducting research into abductions?
> There seems almost no discussion for which the folder was created. I'm
> happy to chat to anyone who can swop abduction material.
We will be joined soon by Dave Jacobs. In the meantime, please start a
discussion about your research in Oz.
Mike
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 20 Dec 91 03:21:01 GMT
Hi Keith,
The following is a brief biographical profile of a possible
abduction case I have been investigating. It was composed by the
percipient. Please let me know what you think of this material. (sw)
_________________________________________________________________
*** NOTE *** Personal names have been deleted
_________________________________________________________________
FAMILY HISTORY:
Percipient: Female, age 35, (Name Deleted) born 2/9/56 in Newport Beach,
CA - during a sizable earthquake.
Mother: (Name Deleted) Born 7/29/28 (deceased 11/14/82). Of English
and Creek Indian (Muskogee Nation) ancestry (though not verifiable;
suspect mother's father bought ancestry papers to cover Indian
roots). History of diabetes, heart disease, cancer in family. Died
from complications of diabetes. Was an educator, painter, and
numerologist.
Father: (Name Deleted) Born 12/9/09. Still living - residing in
nursing home, suffering from advanced Parkinson's disease. Of
Norwegian ancestry, first person in his family to marry out of his
nationality in 1000 years. History of diabetes, and neurological
diseases in family. Was a painter, educator and theosophist.
Siblings: Half sister from father's previous marriage - born
1/18/46
Half brother from father's previous marriage - born 6/6/47
Brother - born 11/14/58
Sister - born 2/10/60
Sister - born 8/21/64; deceased - died from neuroblastoma (Wilm's
Tumor)
_________________________________________________________________
MEDICAL HISTORY:
1) Complications from chicken pox at 6 months, went to lungs;
caused weak lungs - later developing into respiratory condition.
Hospitalized several times as a child with bronchial pneumonia.
2) Menses at age 10
3) Scarlet fever at age 12
4) Hospitalized with mysterious abdominal distension and pain at
age 16
5) Mysterious bleeding (bled for a month) at age 18
6) "Hysterical" episode at age 19. Found outside at night. Thought
a man was trying to cut out my baby (wasn't pregnant).
Hospitalized, given elavil and tranxene.
7) Pelvic inflammatory disease at age 20
8) Persistent allergies at all ages
9) Chronic nose bleeds and bleeding from ears (hemorrhaged both
eardrums at age 16).
10) Broken back at age 23
11) Unexplained tumors at age 23
12) Hospitalizes for mysterious tumors, abdominal distension and
pain, unusual blood count - doctors thought I had cancer twice that
year - age 24
13) Malaria at age 25
14) Recurring tumors at age 26
15) Pelvic inflammatory disease twice at age 27. Miscarriage.
16) Diagnosed with Candida albicans and Hypothyroidism at age 29.
17) Miscarriage at age 32
18) Diagnosed with diabetes at age 33
19) Complete hysterectomy at age 34
_________________________________________________________________
SEXUAL ABUSE:
1) Age 5: Molested by a neighbor boy.
2) Age 9: Molested by an elderly man who was a neighbor.
3) Age 11: Molested by a son of friends of the family.
4) Age 14: Forced seduction by a psychologist - was able to escape.
5) Age 22: Raped, drugged and held captive for 3 days by a
psychiatrist. Was not his patient. Didn't report it.
_________________________________________________________________
EXPERIENCES:
1) Night terror dreams since infancy
2) Age 3: Began playing with "light beings". Said that they were
"Jesus and his friends". Beings that emanated great amounts of
light (as a child, equated them with Italian holy pictures). My
parents let me roam on our property, unsupervised for hours.
3) Age 3: Became extremely afraid in the evening hours. Would
refuse to go to bed because I felt that there were people outside
my window waiting to take me away. I began bringing large cardboard
boxes into my room, so that I could hide from them. Sometimes the
fear would extend into the daylight hours. One day, I became lost
because I crawled into the crawlspace of our large two story
farmhouse, to escape "them". My parents were frantic! My father
finally rescued me from the bowels of the house, after a great
amount of the day had passed.
4) Age 4: Began awaking at night expecting to find spiders in my
bed. I became transfixed by them - to the point that my father
found me playing in a black widow's nest.
5) Age 6: Declared to an entire family gathering of 300, that I
would never have children. The same night, I saw a large ball of
light streak across the sky. My parents also saw it. They said:
"Never mind, it must be Santa Claus".
6) Age 8: Saw a large "angel" floating at eye level with me (I
slept on the top bunk of a bunk-bed) in the early morning hours.
I bound out of bed to tell my mother that St. Michael had just
visited me. She humored me...
7) Age 11: I was playing in a deserted farmhouse in Tennessee, with
a girlfriend - when we both suddenly realized we were in the middle
of a huge field of yellow flowers. It was strange. We hadn't
noticed it before (we had been playing for quite some time - and
the farmhouse had no doors or windows, so visually, it would be
difficult to miss). We became almost "drugged" with the discovery
and I said: "Every time I'm sad, I'll remember this field, for as
long as I live".
8) From 1976 to 1980, I did a lot of travelling throughout Northern
New Mexico. Every time I passed through Abique, Chama, or Questa
areas, I would feel extremely uncomfortable. I was strangely shaken
by these places, and every time I returned home I would turn on the
radio and hear reports of cattle mutilations in those same places,
at the same times...
9) Middle of October, 1980: I returned home late, after spending an
evening with friends (I had one drink and a puff on a joint, much
earlier, with little or no effect). I put my key in the lock and
was stunned by a powerful light. I looked to my right and saw an
immense ship, that covered my entire field of vision. I got a
sudden, but profound look at it! The next thing I remember is being
crouched in the corner of my portal, completely naked (but oddly
warm). I looked up to see all my clothes neatly folded and stacked
by the door, and the key still in the lock. I quickly gathered my
things, went inside, and noticed the clock. I was shocked to
discover 6 missing hours. I slipped into bed. The next thing I
remember was a deep voice in my head saying: "We are all ONE". The
next morning I told a couple of friends. They didn't believe me,
but begged me not to report it. We turned on the radio, just as the
disc jockey was announcing that there were 8 sightings of a UFO the
night before. I remained silent.
10) June 1986: My husband and I were caught in a large fog bank in
Arkansas. Upon emerging from it (we were driving a pick-up truck
and hauling a utility trailer), we saw a large day-glow green ball
fly across the sky, landing in a clump of trees to our right. The
next thing we remember is a coyote staring at us from the road,
with day-glow green eyes - the exact color of the flying ball. We
were not wearing watches and the truck did not have a clock. We
were very shaken, and ended up driving all night, to get the hell
out of Arkansas!
11) Santa Fe, NM, September 1988: Watching television one evening
when out of the corner of my eye, I saw a large, bright, purple
ball streak across the sky. Curious, I stood to catch a better look
at it. I saw it land beside the prison (a few miles away as the
crow flies). When it landed, it illuminated the entire sky for
about 2 seconds. Later that night, I bolted to a sitting position,
in bed. I felt that something was wrong with the house - I jumped
out of bed to discover that the front door was wide open. When I
awoke, my pillow case had blood on it. Both my husband and I were
having a lot of nosebleeds at that time. My ears were also bleeding
and I had strange marks on my body that I went to the doctor about.
She's ruled out fungus - she didn't know what it was. It was a
triangle, in the middle of a circle.
12) Grand Junction, CO, August 1989: I awoke in my motel room (we
were on holiday) to find two beings on top of the table, directly
in front of me. I pinched myself to make sure that I was awake.
Indeed I was! I walked over to them. I reached up to touch one of
them. The next thing I remember I was lying in bed, in the morning.
13) Newport, OR, Sunday, 12:30 A.M. - 3:24 A.M., 11/18/90: I was
watching Saturday Night Live. Paul Simon was on, I noticed the
time. I was alert and very much awake, but all of a sudden I was in
a dream with a friend and two men in black suits, escorting us to
a large silver disc. The next thing I remember was sitting back on
my couch, watching a show on UFOs.
14) Newport, OR, Saturday, 2 A.M. - 2:51 A.M., 12/1/90: I was just
getting into bed, when I noticed a strange, bright green line,
glowing above the curtains in the bedroom. I stood up and walked
over to it to investigate. I felt a "presence" in back of me. I
turned around and saw in the hallway mirror, a shadow about 3 feet
tall and whitish. I made a bolt, trying to catch it. The next thing
I know, I'm sitting up in bed looking at the clock.
_________________________________________________________________
COMMENTS:
After all these years of strange occurrences, my curiosity is
keener than ever, I've gone through stages of denial and complete
doubt. I've mentally investigated many possibilities that might be
causing such happenings - but, I am constantly haunted by dreams,
curious feelings (on all levels) and strange marks on my body - not
to mention chronic ailments of unknown origin. I'm not only
concerned about my experiences and their ramifications, but my
husbands role and safety through all this. I have been drug and
alcohol free for almost 8 years, and don't partake in caffeine or
tobacco either. My husband is equally strict with himself.
<EOF>
<I am most interested in your comments and questions on this case. You
may respond via this echo or netmail me at 1:11/50.>
Regards,
Sheldon Wernikoff---
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From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Research
Date: 19 Dec 91 15:34:46 GMT
In a message to All <15 Dec 91 10:03> Keith Basterfield wrote:
KB> Is anyone in this folder actually conducting research into
KB> abductions? There seems almost no discussion for which the folder
KB> was created. I'm happy to chat to anyone who can swop abduction material.
Keith:
I wouldn't call it "research," so much as data-gathering at this point, but I
am somewhat reluctantly involved in talking with abductees and obtaining
hypnosis where I think it necessary. I say "reluctantly"; I am enjoying the
feeling of helping people who feel they have nowhere else to turn, but I am not
a trained researcher, psychologist, hypnotist or scientist, and cannot help
feeling that I may be in over my head. I am getting advice from others, and so
far I don't think I've done too much damage.
My opinion of abductions, based on what I've read and now what I've experienced
first hand (through my subjects), is that we seem to have something here, but
we still have a long way to go before we eliminate psychological causes. Much
of what I've heard sounds very much like dream-state material. Feelings of
bilocation, "floating", etc., puts me in mind of the OOBE material; bedroom
abductions bear marked similarity to "hagging" and other hypnogogic/hypnopompic
experiences. The only thing pointing to objective reality is the correlation
between accounts. The "anomalous scars" and "scoop marks" are not by any means
an indicator, since there is very little one-to-one correlation between any two
such incidents. One person will have one on the arm, one on the leg, another
under the armpit, one will have six pinpoints arranged in a circle, another
will have 4 arranged in a rough square. I would expect to see something along
the lines of the tell-tale tuberculosis test scar that some people have on
their upper arms. And the implants situation is a minefield of misinformation.
Every day I hear some rumor that "Dave's got one" or "Budd's got two" or
"Whitley sneezed and short-circuited a radio station" or something. If
thousands of people have been abducted, as we are led to believe, and a good
percentage have been implanted, we should have seen something solid by now.
I am very heartened, however, by what almost seems like a surreptitious mass-
exodus of psychologists into the abduction fray. Every month it seems I hear a
new name with capital letters after it coming into the field. John Mack, for
example, and Georgetown psychiatry professor James Gordon.
I might use this message to ask any and all, what IS the current state of
abduction research, as far as is known? Is my perception of growing interest by
the mental health community correct? Is Robert Baker the only recognized
psychology authority to pooh-pooh the whole field? Are the TREAT conferences
anything worth crowing about?
Thanks for your message, Keith.
Jim
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****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!abduct
Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com
Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters:
DOMAIN firstname.lastname@paranet.org
UUCP scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 37
Wednesday, January 1st 1992
Today's Topics:
Re: abductions
Parallel research
Strieber
Abduction Research
Re: Non-Terrestrials as Gods
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Abduction Research
Re: Non-Terrestrials as Gods
Abduction research
Abduction research
reply to your message
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Abduction Research
Abduction research
Abduction Research
Strieber
Re: abductions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob.Martin@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Martin)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 20 Dec 91 23:27:00 GMT
Carl, about fifteen years ago, I engaged a roommate service, and wound
up sharing an apt. with the president of the NY Theosophical Society!
So I am somewhat familiar with Mdme. Blavatsky & her followers. My
impression is that most of the validity in Theosophical thought is
drawn from Eastern sources. I later worked for Samuel Weiser Books, a
firm that publishes and distributes occult works, and as a result
became aquainted with, and to some extent involved in, such varied
philosophies as Gurdjieffism, Crowleyism, Sufism (the
intellectual/philosophical strain, not the ecstatics), Buddhism (left
hand path) (that's a joke - I'm not certain people who use that term
know what it means), and have some knowledge of quite a few other
off-center philosophies. What I saiin my earlier message is only
something that I arrived at by logic, after hearing too much of this:
"I don't believe in God, but I do believe in some kind of force," or "I
don't believe in God because I think everything can be explained by the
laws of nature."
It bothers me that such people are to intellectually timid to use the
word "God" to refer to that force, or to those rules. The problem, I
think, is that today's religions were formulated at a time when science
as such did not exist, and the social purposes that we now give to
science were the province of religion; dogma's interplay with mystery
has since been replaced by fact and theory...to my mind, these are the
same.
Thanks for the note...despite my one-time proximity to the NYTS pres, I
doubt if I could have come close to such a succinct summation of their
principles.
--
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Parallel research
Date: 20 Dec 91 04:52:00 GMT
The other day I came across a book by R A Gardner (1991) titled "Sex
Abuse Hysteria:Salam Witch Trials Revisited." Published by Creative
Therapeutics, Cresskill. Gardner is listed as a Clinical Professor of
Child Psychiatry at Columbia University. Two portions of it on pages
99-100 caught my eye, being relevant to abduction research.
"A recent development in the field of psychotherapeutic psychitry is
the "uncovering" of early sex abuse that the patient never realized
took place. This has been very much in vogue during the last few
years. Sometimes the process starts with the psychiatrist "suspecting"
sex abuse on the basis of allegedly derivative statements and symptoms
that are "suggestive" of early childhood sex abuse. When the patient
expresses puzzlement and even disbelief, he (she) is encouraged to
enter into a more meaningful and deeper (sometimes on the couch)
therapy in order to "uncover" these lost memories. Human beings,
suggestible and gullible animals that we are, are likely to comply
with the psychitrist's prediction and provide the psychiatrist with
the "lost" material." Later on page 100:-
"Interestingly, an even more recent development is the suspicion by
patients-arising within themselves-that they may have been sexually
abused and were not aware of it."
Interestingly, these developments have occurred in abduction research
in recent times. Have you had an unexplained nosebleed, dreams of
aliens? Then perhaps you should consider regression to determnine if
you have been abducted!
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Strieber
Date: 20 Dec 91 05:16:00 GMT
Thanks for the reply. Farewell Strieber. Who will come along next?
--
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 22 Dec 91 03:33:01 GMT
In a message to Keith Basterfield <19-Dec-91 08:34>
Jim Speiser wrote:
JS> My opinion of abductions, based on what I've read and now what
JS> I've experienced first hand (through my subjects), is that we
JS> seem to have something here, but we still have a long way to go
JS> before we eliminate psychological causes.
Very well put Jim, with "seem" being the keyword. What's
interesting to note is the fact that so many of us appear to be
unequivocally convinced of the corporeal reality of abductions,
even though we do not yet possess equally convincing
confirmation of this actuality.
It is my perception, through the admittedly modest number of
individuals I have worked with, that the etiology of the
abduction experience can, in a statistically significant number
of cases, be traced to varying degrees of psychopathological
affliction and fantasy proneness. Although I am certainly not
qualified professionally, I vehemently disagree with clinicians
such as Dr. Rima Laibow, who asserts she has found very few
deviations from the accepted psychological "norm" in her
subjects. By no means am I stating that all abduction cases are
the result of externalized metaphor, but I do believe that
many, if not most, can be resolved through psychological
mechanisms.
JS> The only thing pointing to objective reality is the correlation
JS> between accounts.
The situation gets complicated here too Jim. It depends on what
you mean by "correlation between accounts". I know there's no
such thing as a ufological virgin today, so correlations such as
ashen gray bug-eyed beings, blue beams, and multicolored lights
just don't make it for me. If we were to begin seeing multiple
subjects world-wide drawing complex glyphs that matched exactly,
that would be a great deal more persuading evidence. I know that
a few researchers such as Hopkins, Jacobs, and Rhodeghier claim
to be privy to such data, but until I can make my own
confirmation, I can only regard this as hearsay
JS> I might use this message to ask any and all, what IS the
JS> current state of abduction research, as far as is known?
Obviously, not enough work is being done, primarily due to a
lack of funding. Many abductees go without treatment simply
because they can not afford it. Others choose to forego therapy
due to the social stigma often associated with psychological
counseling. Research organization and structure is deficient,
although improving markedly. The secretive nature of the
abduction researcher has got to change. If I hear one more
time..."Sheldon, I'm working with a bona-fide abductee - but I
can't reveal any of the details to you yet"...I'm going to put
my head through my CRT! <g>
Yes Jim, we've got a long way to go, but we're getting there. I
hope Keith Basterfield, Mark Rhodeghier, Dave Jacobs <and the
rest of you listeners out there> will jump in here and keep this
thread alive. Thanks Jim, and Thanks Keith for taking the
initiative.
Take care,
Sheldon
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Non-Terrestrials as Gods
Date: 22 Dec 91 03:17:00 GMT
Hi Morgan,
If you'd like to see some good theories on non-terrestrials as gods for
ancient people, look into any one of the 5 books written by Zecharia
Sitchin. I'm currently reading Book One of "The Earth Chronicles" and
it is excellent.
Let me know if you want a brief paragraph on these books.
Regards,
Linda
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 22 Dec 91 03:28:00 GMT
Hi Clark,
You said something like this regarding aliens: We have little proof
that they are non-terrestrial, but they might be inter-dimensional.
Sorry, have never gotten the hang of quoting on this BBS...
But my SERIOUS question is: What if they are from another dimension?
Are there planets in other dimensions? Can anyone tell? Does anyone
know? Does that complicate things more if Aliens are from another
dimension, rather than another solar system? How does one get to
another dimension and back?
Take your time to answer... <:-)
More Merry Eggnogs to you,
Linda
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From: Morgan.David@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Morgan David)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 20 Dec 91 02:12:00 GMT
Whose to say whether or not extraterrestrial and extradimensional can
be equated.
M
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From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 23 Dec 91 04:24:33 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <21 Dec 91 20:33> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:
SW> It is my perception, through the admittedly modest number of
SW> individuals I have worked with, that the etiology of the
SW> abduction experience can, in a statistically significant number
SW> of cases, be traced to varying degrees of psychopathological
SW> affliction and fantasy proneness. Although I am certainly not
SW> qualified professionally, I vehemently disagree with clinicians
SW> such as Dr. Rima Laibow, who asserts she has found very few
SW> deviations from the accepted psychological "norm" in her
SW> subjects. By no means am I stating that all abduction cases are
SW> the result of externalized metaphor, but I do believe that
SW> many, if not most, can be resolved through psychological
SW> mechanisms.
Sheldon: Do you have any clinical analysis to back you up on this, or are you
going on your own perceptions? Not arguing with you, mind you. I will reserve
further comment for now, but I think we'd better take this up in RESEARCH.
>JS> The only thing pointing to objective reality is the correlation
>JS> between accounts.
SW> The situation gets complicated here too Jim. It depends on what
SW> you mean by "correlation between accounts". I know there's no
SW> such thing as a ufological virgin today, so correlations such as
SW> ashen gray bug-eyed beings, blue beams, and multicolored lights
SW> just don't make it for me.
While I tend to agree, there IS more to it than that, as I'm sure you're aware.
There were many correlations before Communion, before The Andreasson Affair,
and before Close Encounters. Also, the correlations are not just in description
of the aliens, but as Bullard has pointed out, in the order of events, which is
still not widely known. And there are the "hidden" elements, which Hopkins et
al are sitting on, and they are not just limited to exoglyphs. I was made aware
of one of these elements before taking on a case, and damned if it didn't crop
up as predicted. So while there is perhaps not enough here to go to the
National Academy of Sciences with, there is enough to justify serious inquiry.
SW> subjects world-wide drawing complex glyphs that matched exactly,
SW> that would be a great deal more persuading evidence. I know that
SW> a few researchers such as Hopkins, Jacobs, and Rhodeghier claim
SW> to be privy to such data, but until I can make my own
SW> confirmation, I can only regard this as hearsay
Dave should be joining us shortly; he may even be reading this. If so, you
might consider contacting him or Mark Rodeghier to be brought into the loop. I
myself have not seen more than a small sample of exoglyphs, not enough to make
up my mind either, but I have been assured that they will be made public in the
(near?) future.
>JS> I might use this message to ask any and all, what IS the
>JS> current state of abduction research, as far as is known?
SW> Obviously, not enough work is being done, primarily due to a
SW> lack of funding. Many abductees go without treatment simply
SW> because they can not afford it. Others choose to forego therapy
SW> due to the social stigma often associated with psychological
SW> counseling. Research organization and structure is deficient,
SW> although improving markedly. The secretive nature of the
SW> abduction researcher has got to change. If I hear one more
SW> time..."Sheldon, I'm working with a bona-fide abductee - but I
SW> can't reveal any of the details to you yet"...I'm going to put
SW> my head through my CRT! <g>
There is every reason to keep identities a secret, but no reason that I can see
to keep mere account details under wraps, as long as there is nothing to
identify the percipient.
SW> Yes Jim, we've got a long way to go, but we're getting there. I
SW> hope Keith Basterfield, Mark Rhodeghier, Dave Jacobs <and the
SW> rest of you listeners out there> will jump in here and keep this
SW> thread alive. Thanks Jim, and Thanks Keith for taking the
SW> initiative.
Ditto.
Like I say, some of the issues raised are going to have to be taken up in
RESEARCH.
Jim
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From: Morgan.David@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Morgan David)
Subject: Re: Non-Terrestrials as Gods
Date: 24 Dec 91 00:46:00 GMT
I believe I know the book you are referring too. I will check the
series out when I get back to Toronto
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 24 Dec 91 03:44:00 GMT
Thanks for your case study Sheldon. Where to start? It is interesting
that we are now discovering that abductions are not "simple." Many of
them are lifelong interactions between a person and entities. In this
case, numerous episodes of "missing time" and visiting entities are
given. After digging into fantasy-prone personality research and
noting the correlation with childhood abuse, this lady's abuse history
is horrific.
So, could we argue a psychological explanation? Her mind splits to
cope with the traumas of sexual abuse-along the lines of multiple
personality victims? Or do we argue reality level event? It all did
really happen? I guess firstly I'd like to see a person recounting
this story be willing to undergo a full psychological analysis,
including FPP test protocols to see how she fares.
Were there any paranormal events in her life, and if so to what
degree? It seems that many abductees have above average interaction
with the paranormal, e.g poltergeists.
Anyway, thanks for the data Sheldon. I'm going away to ponder it some
more.
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 24 Dec 91 03:57:00 GMT
Thanks for your thoughts Jim. It is good to see qualified health
professionals getting involved in the field, it can only benefit
research as a whole. One of the reasons Bob Bartholomew and I wanted
to get a piece on abductions into a peer reviewed Psych journal was
to stimulate some minds into staryting to look into it. So we were
glad to see our piece "UFO abductees and Contactees: Psychopathology
or Fantasy Proneness" appear in the July edition (1991 Vol 22 No 3 pp
215-222) of the US Journal "Professional Psychology: Research and
Practice." Some 3 years ago Budd Hopkins in reply to an article by
Sociologist Bartholomew and I, suggested we get out of our armchairs
and interview some abductees. Easier said than done in Australia.
Since then I have been involved with perhaps 20 Australian cases-used
regression in some and not in others. The two cases I have studied in
details are incredibly complex, lifelong accounts of interactions
with aliens. Both ladies, were sexually abused as children and carry
those scars with them today. The case I have done most research on I
wrote up in IUR Mar/Apr 91. The data indicates a mixed
subjective/objective explanation-not simply one way. I have worked
with people as both counsellor and researcher, as you say,
particularly when there is no one else to turn to. On the subject of
implants I've just conducted a literature review for an article I've
submitted to the IUR. Lots of hearsay, damm little evidence. However,
the Richard proce case is intriguing. Has anyone gotten a report from
David Pritchard at MIT who analysed the implant? Would make a good
interview article for UFO Magazine, Omni or IUR.
UFORA published a short catalogue of abduction and misisng time
abstracts last April. If you'd like me to mail you a copy, please give
an address. Same for anyone else who reads this.
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: reply to your message
Date: 28 Dec 91 21:48:00 GMT
You wrote to me:
"Did I say that? No, I didn't. And I think it is shameful of you to use
such a cheap shot in replying to me. (and it WAS a VERY CHEAP shot). This
is the same as asking me "When did you stop beating your wife?"
I didn't mean to make a 'cheap shot'. I guess I was looking for a good
rebuttal from you.
>What I'd REALLY like for you to state is what your REAL AGENDA
>in posting here is. If it is to contribute factual information
>or rational analysis, then please join us and do so. If you are
>here to bible thump, allow me to recommend any of a dozen fine
>Christian echos that would love to have your posts.
>
>I'm still waiting to hear something from you other than unfounded
>assertions based on your religious beliefs. I'm tired of wasting
>bandwidth on this business. Religious discussions ALWAYS end in
>a flamefest of the
>"my God and beat up your God" variety, and have no place in a serious
>discussion such as the one we are attempting to carry on.
I understand your concerns (think I have responded to a few people who
were merely interested in changing my point of view in a similar
manner) but I was truly looking for information and asking the type of
questions I am asking is often a good way of smoking out _if_ there
_is_ any information to be found.
UFO's in general have fascinated me since the age of nine. I have read
a lot of books - most I could get my hands on.. And the abduction seems
a rather interesting occurance within the general UFO category. The
Barney and Betty Hill book seems the flagship of the fleet as far as
documented information although later information seemed to
indicate that some facts had been left out which would have, if
included, shed some doubt on the creditability of this incident.
It's just that in all my reading, I have not come across any
information which leads me to believe that aliens have truly visited
our planet. I do believe, as taught in our astronomy class, that there
could be as many as 1400 planets in our solar system alone which would
have the ability to support carbon based life (life as we know it).
By the way, I have, in the 29 years I have been a Catholic, questioned
the Catholic church much worse than you have seen me question things
here... and have always received excellent answers which is why I am
still a Catholic today (converted at the age of 18).
And I would not be welcome on the Bible echos (some of which I am
accessing already). My brand of Christianity, Catholicism, is not
popular among fundamentalists and much Catholic bashing goes on there..
probably much more Catholic bashing than UFO bashing!
Sorry if I offended you... I am just searching for information.
{sue} {Cheese Whiz BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400 baud}
--
Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 28 Dec 91 21:55:00 GMT
>SW> It has been observed by psychologists that people who have a
>SW> religious orientation tend to deal with disability and age better
>SW> than those who don't. Also, Bill W., the founder of AA makes a
>SW> rather impressive case that atheistic beliefs caused alot of his
>SW> problems. People who join AA and embrace the Deistic orientation
>SW> tend to deal with their lives better than they did before joining.
>
>But, of course! They are so well hypnotized. The same can be said
>of people on Thorazine! AA gives STRUCTURE, as does religion. Nothing
>really wrong with that, particularly since the average IQ is 100
>(a tautology, I know!
>:-) All you got to do is joing this neat family of people who will
>listen to you, nurture you, and understand your terrible problems
>with reality. Besides, if you believe it's a disease, then it really
>isn't your responsibility anyway. Only problem is when these folks
>demand everyone else pop these Thorazine pills, too. Frankly, I';d
>ratehr be kidnapped by a grey.
Sorry but your 'average IQ' of a religionist is off. For one thing,
over 60% of MENSA, a high IQ society, claims a belief in God! And in
reading some of the literature within the Catholic church, you find
that many many highly intelligent people have chosen to be deists and
even Christians.
Thorazine is not a good comparison either... it dulls your mentality
while people who have converted to Christianity report sharpened
senses. And Christians who feel that God will forgive them, _can_
really take responsibility for their actions unlike others who must
hide from the reality of many of their actions due to the pain
involved.
I am not saying anyone should run right out and convert but to post a
message such as yours, is not 'the look' either... I felt compelled to
correct your rather superficial and unknowledgible view of
Christianity!
{sue} {Cheese Whiz BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400 baud}
--
Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 28 Dec 91 21:57:00 GMT
>What you have stated are your unsubstantiated opinions. How am I
>to refute them? Your response still lacks specific evidence. I
>would suggest that any
>"evidence" based on an unprovable "belief system" is going to be
>called suspect by any scientifically based researcher, myself
included.
>
>It is not my place to "refute" a charge which has had no evidence
>presented.
> Your citation to the AA founder is an interesting account of another
>single person's experiences. It does NOT show basis in fact.
This seems evasive which leads me to believe there _is_ no good
argument for 'your side' other than unproven anecdoctal evidence from
highly impressionable, emotional witnesses. OK.. that tells me some
information also. Thanks...
--
Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 28 Dec 91 22:04:00 GMT
>There is currently more observational evidence to support the existence
>of UFos as a phenomenon worthy of study than there is observational
>evidence to support the existence of an alleged being, a supreme
>being...
'observational evidence' is considered to be scientific observation,
using the scientific method and double blind studies etc. If you are
talking 'observers' then there are actually far more observers who
reported seeing God in various ways over a period of 5000 years. And
many documented their visions with doing amazing things etc. etc.
The two are really not comparible although I have noticed that UFOLOGY
seems to replace religion in some of its devotees... the modern
mythology of a technological age which in actuality, is a return to
'old fashioned' paganism with a different covering....
What I am looking for is the SCIENTIFIC evidence. IF you have any to
offer, I would be interested in seeing it.. or seeing a reference...
thanks...
--
Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 29 Dec 91 06:00:01 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <23-Dec-91>
Keith Basterfield wrote:
KB> After digging into fantasy-prone personality research and
KB> noting the correlation with childhood abuse, this lady's abuse
KB> history is horrific.
I absolutely concur on that point Keith. There's more, but I'm
told we'll have to take up further details in RESEARCH.
KB> So, could we argue a psychological explanation? Her mind splits
KB> to cope with the traumas of sexual abuse-along the lines of
KB> multiple personality victims? Or do we argue reality level
KB> event? It all did really happen?
Being consistent with correct scientific method, I think we're
obliged to first consider the more temporal psychological
interpretations, before moving on to the exotic. In the cases
where the mundane (although that term may be understatement, even
for psychological causation) can be ruled out, we might be on to
something of greater implication.
KB> Were there any paranormal events in her life, and if so to what
KB> degree?
She and her parents were/are involved in metaphysics and
theosophy. She has described a number of "ghost" visitations, and
a multitude of psychic "coincidences".
The following is an extract she had written describing an event at
12 years of age. "...My mother and I were in Memphis with my baby
sister who was dying of cancer (she was receiving care at St
Jude's). It was, naturally, a very stressful time for the entire
family -- I was probably _too_ close and prematurely mourning my
sister (who also saw many 'Angels' through her years - some with
strange black suits). But I did find a great solace playing with
a girl my age in the country, on occasion. One weekend, we were
playing in an old, abandoned share-cropper's cottage. For some
reason, it took us a while to notice that the shack was situated
in the middle of an immense field of bright yellow daffodils and
Jonquils. When we finally noticed, we were filled with rapture -
running, laughing, picking flowers -- filled with the beauty of
the moment. To this day when I'm blue, I think of that field and
I am filled with warmth and feelings of security...."
Any thoughts on this excerpt Keith?
Take care,
Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 29 Dec 91 16:58:35 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <23 Dec 91 20:57> Keith Basterfield wrote:
KB> Thanks for your thoughts Jim. It is good to see qualified health
KB> professionals getting involved in the field, it can only benefit
KB> research as a whole. One of the reasons Bob Bartholomew and I
KB> wanted to get a piece on abductions into a peer reviewed Psych
KB> journal was to stimulate some minds into staryting to look into
KB> it. So we were glad to see our piece "UFO abductees and
KB> Contactees: Psychopathology or Fantasy Proneness" appear in the
KB> July edition (1991 Vol 22 No 3 pp 215-222) of the US Journal
KB> "Professional Psychology: Research and Practice." Some 3 years
Great...we need more exposure in the "pro" rags.
KB> ago Budd Hopkins in reply to an article by Sociologist
KB> Bartholomew and I, suggested we get out of our armchairs and
KB> interview some abductees. Easier said than done in Australia.
KB> Since then I have been involved with perhaps 20 Australian
KB> cases-used regression in some and not in others. The two cases I
KB> have studied in details are incredibly complex, lifelong accounts
KB> of interactions with aliens. Both ladies, were sexually abused as
KB> children and carry those scars with them today. The case I have
Do you think there is a connection? I've not seen one in my research, but I may
be taking things too much at face value. There may be some "hidden" abuse in
some of the cases I've looked at.
KB> done most research on I wrote up in IUR Mar/Apr 91. The data
KB> indicates a mixed subjective/objective explanation-not simply one
Do you mean that the final answer will be a mixture of both, or for right now,
the data points both ways? Every objective event has subjective components,
remember...
KB> way. I have worked with people as both counsellor and researcher,
KB> as you say, particularly when there is no one else to turn to. On
KB> the subject of implants I've just conducted a literature review
KB> for an article I've submitted to the IUR. Lots of hearsay, damm
KB> little evidence. However, the Richard proce case is intriguing.
KB> Has anyone gotten a report from David Pritchard at MIT who
KB> analysed the implant? Would make a good interview article for UFO
KB> Magazine, Omni or IUR.
or Continuum...
KB> UFORA published a short catalogue of abduction and misisng time
KB> abstracts last April. If you'd like me to mail you a copy, please
KB> give an address. Same for anyone else who reads this. --- FD 1.99c
Jim Speiser
8390 E. Cheryl Dr.
Scottsdale, AZ 85258
USA
Thanks!
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 31 Dec 91 05:21:01 GMT
In a message to Keith Basterfield <29-Dec-91 09:58>
Jim Speiser wrote:
KB> The two cases I have studied in detail are incredibly complex,
KB> lifelong accounts of interactions with aliens. Both ladies,
KB> were sexually abused as children and carry those scars with
KB> them today....
JS> Do you think there is a connection? I've not seen one in my
JS> research, but I may be taking things too much at face value.
JS> There may be some "hidden" abuse in some of the cases I've
JS> looked at.
Jim (and Keith), evidence certainly seems to be pointing
towards a correlation between sexual/physical abuse and the
abduction experience. Determining whether this link portends a
shared psychological affliction, a possible prerequisite for
"alien" visitation, or both, should be paramount in our research
efforts.
I do feel that there is great likelihood of "hidden" abuse,
since it is without question a difficult issue to introduce into
the therapist/percipient alliance. For example, in the case I am
involved with, nothing surfaced for close to two years, but when it
finally did, all hell broke loose.
I imagine we should continue this discussion in RESEARCH, right
Jim? But exactly where is RESEARCH anyway???
Take care,
Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Powell@p5.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Strieber
Date: 25 Dec 91 00:18:33 GMT
In a message to Bob Martin <12 Dec 91 21:50> Keith Basterfield wrote:
KB> Bob, also worth looking out for is Strieber's latest novel: "The
KB> Wild",1991 Futura books, London. It's about a man who turns into
KB> a wolf. Some interesting comments in it about Earth and
KB> co-existing entities-wolves.
I was recently posted with excerpts from a magazine interview Strieber gave
prior to Communion (etc.) where he said he'd finished The Wild (or Wolfen,
don't remember which) prior to starting Communion...
Thanks, take care.
John.
--
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From: Michael.Schuyler@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 31 Dec 91 02:49:00 GMT
In a message to Michael Schuyler <12-28-91 14:55> Sue Widemark wrote:
SW> >SW> It has been observed by psychologists that people who have a
SW> >SW> religious orientation tend to deal with disability and age
SW> Sorry but your 'average IQ' of a religionist is off. For one thing,
SW> over 60% of MENSA, a high IQ society, claims a belief in God! And in
SW> reading some of the literature within the Catholic church, you find
SW> that many many highly intelligent people have chosen to be deists and
SW> even Christians.
The average IQ is, by definition, 100, religious or not. My point, which you
have neatly skirted, is that structured religion has appeal particularly to
the uneducated or those of 'average intelligence.' I think the Mensa claim
is rather overblown for several reasons. Belief in the existence of a
supreme being does not equate to Christianity. And, for that matter,
membership in Mensa means you have passed a test and feel compelled to join
a so-called high-IQ organization, an interesting phenomenon in itsel4f. I do
believe there are many intelligent people who are religious and who have
well-considered views on the role of religion in our culture. I know some of
these people and respect them. I also know too many people of little thought
who are rabidly religious, and it is my observation that these people appear
to be hypnotized and seek in their religion the answer to all questions
great and small. I don't think it is an accident that the Bible Belt in this
country also just happens to be an area of the lowest educational
attainment.
SW>
SW> Thorazine is not a good comparison either... it dulls your mentality
SW> while people who have converted to Christianity report sharpened
SW> senses. And Christians who feel that God will forgive them, _can_
SW> really take responsibility for their actions unlike others who must
I think you are perhaps correct. Thorazine is too modern. Opium would have
been a better term to use, as in "opiate of the masses." People who smoke
pot and people who indulge in cocaine also report "heightened senses," which
turn out by objective measure to be rather less creative than the indulgers
might claim.
SW> message such as yours, is not 'the look' either... I felt compelled
SW> to correct your rather superficial and unknowledgible view of
SW> Christianity!
SW>
That is laughable at best, unless you remove the words between superficial
and Christianity. I think Christianity is not alone in its appeal to
narrow-mindedness and superficiality. Witness Islam, another large cult. But
there is no fundamental difference save size between Christianity and
Scientology, Hare Krishnas, or any other organization that purports to take
care of you if only you will accept the "path" laid out before you.
My interest in this is not to debate Christianity. If you're interested in
that, I might suggest Steve Winter's Holy_Bible echo or some others. But the
cultish aspects of the religion have relevance to the UFO question quite
often, as several cults have come out of what were originally UFO
encounters. Jacques Vallee's account of the UMMO cult is the most recent
case in point, a cult that he says was specifically engineered to gauge
public and police reaction, that has grown into a group of serious
believers. We also have the recent case of Donna Butts, as reported in the
last issue of UFO Magazine, a person who melds together fundamentalist
Christian teachings with UFOs. Up here we have a group called UFO Contactees
International, a group of people who claim just as zealously as any
Christian that they are in contact with higher powers from other dimensions
who manifest themselves through UFOs. To go back a little further, the
Mormon religion owes its genesis to an encounter with an Angel, Moroni
(might have spelling wrong on the name) who gave Joseph some tablets in an
undeciperable language. But fortunately, this angel also had some magic
glasses which, when worn, provided an automatic translation. The account of
this encounter is classic-UFO. And the result is a thriving religion of true
believers.
The UFO literature is just full of this stuff. Eduard "Billy" Meier is
publishing a new book: "The Talmud of Jmmanuel" (Wildflower Press, 1992)
which is Meier's authorized translation of the origin of the ancient gospels
of Matthew and Mark. Go to any New Age convention and you can see a dozen
more of these cults, all so absolutely determined that salvation is through
their interpretation of reality. It is amazing the gullibility of people to
swallow this stuff. And when I hear so-called "saved" religious apologists
condemn these people, well, it's the pot calling the kettle black, one cult
to another.If they'd keep that to themselves, it wouldn't be so bad.
Unfortunately, these absolutist interpretations spill over to the rest of
us, destroying entire cultures and our freedoms in the process.
I certainly don't know of another field of endeavor that strives so hard to
be "scientific," yet attracts so much of the religious mumbo-jumbo as
explanation for the phenomenon. When the facts are few and far between,
that's where religion thrives.
--
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****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
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Abduction Digest, Number 38
Friday, January 10th 1992
Today's Topics:
UFO Contactee Center - Seattle
Re: abductions
Re: UFO Contactee Center - Seattle
Jerusalem Syndrome
Advice
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
Re: If Ufo's
Re: abductions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f8.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: UFO Contactee Center - Seattle
Date: 5 Jan 92 01:54:55 GMT
Hi Mike,
I've ben reading with interest all your posts with Sue Widemark.
You mentioned the UFO CC International based in Seattle. There's a long
article in the recent edition of the UFO News Clipping Service publication on
Aileen and the UFOCCI in Seattle. It seems to me that group in Seattle is
becoming more New Age and religion based . Aileen even admits (according to
the article) that she thinks Elvis is still alive! That right there shreds
all their credibility for me!
Why do so many of these contactees start delving into metaphysics and Eastern
religions, I wonder? I'd like to ask Aileen and her group why haven't they
delved into an astronomy book instead? They're looking for answers to aliens
in religion?? It seems to me that astronomy books would be a better place!
Mike, I'd like to send you that article (it was originally pub. in the SEATTLE
WEEKLY). Would you be kind enough to post your address? That article is a
real eye-opener.
Regards,
Linda
--
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From: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Rogers)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 5 Jan 92 08:37:47 GMT
Your research into the Mensa nonsense is greatly appreciated.
Doug Rogers
Echo Coordinator
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From: Michael.Schuyler@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: UFO Contactee Center - Seattle
Date: 7 Jan 92 03:56:00 GMT
In a message to Mike Schuyler <01-04-92 18:54> Linda Bird wrote:
LB> Mike, I'd like to send you that article (it was originally pub. in
LB> the SEATTLE
LB> WEEKLY). Would you be kind enough to post your address? That
LB> article is a
LB> real eye-opener.
Linda!
Thanks so much for your offer. But, uh...I have the article already! It
was great. She lives in a trailer park near the Intl Airport flight path and
works for Boeing, I live just across the water from Seattle, have toyed with
the idea of going down there on a research project :-) Maybe someday. I get
her publication, "The Missing Link," at least for this year until my
subscription runs out. Well, I just wanted to see what it was. Really! (It
wasn't my fault.) Thanks again...
--Michael
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From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Jerusalem Syndrome
Date: 8 Jan 92 15:11:04 GMT
I took the liberty of cross-posting this from ParaNet General. It may have
relevance to the abduction phenomenon.
To: Keith Basterfield Message #: 2770
From: Sheldon Wernikoff Submitted: 30 Dec 91 21:21:00
Subject: JERUSALEM SYNDROME Status: Public
Received: No Group: P_GEN (12)
The following article is from The Wall Street Journal, 12/30/91, published
by Dow Jones & Company, 200 Liberty Street, New York, NY 10281.
.............................
JERUSALEM SYNDROME MAKES SOME VISITORS BELIEVE THEY'RE GOD
Israeli Doctors Are Puzzled By the Temporary Illness;
Dinner With Two Elijahs --- by Amy Dockser Marcus, staff reporter
.............................
JERUSALEM - They come as tourists, hoping to sightsee and relax. But they
end up shouting prophecies from street corners, walking around naked, and
proclaiming themselves the Messiah.
Local psychiatrists call the phenomenon "the Jerusalem syndrome", a form of
hysteria that turns 50 to 200 tourists every year, many of them previously
healthy, into would-be King Davids, Virgin Marys, and other biblical figures.
"Jerusalem can literally drive some tourists crazy," says Yair Bar-El, the
director of Kfar Shaul, the government mental health center in Jerusalem
that, since the early '80s, has provided psychiatric care for all foreign
tourists afflicted with the illness.
IMAGE VS. REALITY
Doctors aren't sure what causes the Jerusalem syndrome. Part of it is
probably just that people are awed to be in a place that psychiatrist Eli
Witztum, who has studied the syndrome, calls "the umbilical cord of the
world." But more than that, experts speculate that the enormous dislocation
that prompts people to believe they are biblical figures arises from the
shock that the image and reality of the city are so far apart. "People come
here expecting everyone to be wearing white robes and playing harps. Instead,
they find a city in tension," says Jim Jerrish, project director of Bridges
for Peace, a Jerusalem group promoting interfaith relations that sponsors a
number of tourist groups.
Tourists expecting to reflect in the quiet of an ancient church are often
disappointed to find that it probably strides a traffic-choked roadway. Via
Dolorosa, with its Stations of the Cross, is lined with Vendors hawking
everything from Kodak film to cheap souvenirs. Most disconcerting is the fact
that Jerusalem, the fabled city of peace, lives in an almost constant state
of political stress.
Jerusalem's 4,000 year old grip on the imagination of three major faiths
has always made the city a magnet for madmen and eccentrics. The English
woman who could be found on Mount Scopus waiting daily for the lords return
with a hot cup of tea and the Dutch countess who built a huge building in the
center of town to house the "hundred and forty and four thousand... children
of Israel" in the Book of Revelations are well established parts of city
lore.
SOME THINK THEY'RE SATAN
Nonetheless, the modern version of this phenomenon doesn't occur just among
people with a history of psychiatric problems. Dr. Witztum, the Jerusalem
psychiatrist who has been studying tourists afflicted with the illness, says
that when a patient is admitted to Kfar Shaul, psychiatrists speak with the
patient's family and doctors about past medical history - and often discover
that they don't have prior psychiatric disorders.
Gathering scientific data on the Jerusalem syndrome hasn't been easy.
"Someone who thinks he's the Messiah just doesn't have the time to fill out
a questionnaire," Dr. Witztum says. Still, a study of 89 former patients
released earlier this year by Dr. Witztum and others revealed that nearly a
third thought they were the Messiah. God came in a very distant second. Satan
was third. "People tend to stay within their own religions. Jews prefer
Abraham and King David. And we get a lot of Christians found wandering around
the desert thinking they're John the Baptist," says Dr. Witztum.
The Jerusalem syndrome tends to strike very quickly. It took only five days
before a 33-year-old American vacationing here, a former Air Force cadet with
no history of psychological problems, exchanged his clothes for a sword. He
then ran naked, sword in hand, through the Arab quarter of the Old City
shouting that God had instructed him to cure the blind.
A 41-year-old German tourist, a secondary-school teacher, walked into his
hotel's kitchen just a few days after arriving, declared that he was Jesus,
and then went to file a complaint at the police station when the cook
appeared skeptical.
Some longtime residents of the city have even seen friends from abroad
transformed while on vacation in Jerusalem. Rabbi David Rosen, director of
interfaith relations at the Israel office of the Anti-Defamation League, once
bumped into a college friend - who had been "a very stable, normal English
public-school schoolboy" - standing outside a city gate dressed in sackcloth
and ashes and exhorting mankind to repent. "I tried to convince him that God
didn't want him to do this, but I didn't make any headway," says Rabbi Rosen.
Mr. Jerrish of Bridges for Peace recalls a dinner party at a friend's house
where two guests were tourists who, it turned out, both thought they were
Elijah the Prophet. "They spent the whole dinner glaring at each other,
accusing the other one of being an imposter," he says.
FALSE PREGNANCY
At Kfar Shaul, Dr. Bar-El brings in clerics, family members and local
consulate representatives to speak with his patients in an effort to get them
well enough to travel home. While most patients snap out of it after a few
days of treatment and return to normal, some are more difficult to handle.
One 36-year-old British woman, a London high school teacher, continued to
claim she was carrying the son of Jesus, even after doctors at the hospital
showed her physical exam revealed she wasn't pregnant.
For the most part, the hospital is unable to do any follow-up once the
tourists go back home. But Dr. Witztum did correspond for several years with
one former patient, a man in his early 20s from Zurich. The man had been
taken to the hospital a day or so after visiting a Jerusalem church. "He had
stopped eating and was seeing Jesus Christ everywhere," Dr. Witztum says.
"When he was brought into the hospital, there was a strange light on his face
and an expression of elation. When I called his father, he was amazed. He
said his son was very shy and inhibited." Soon, the young man went back to
Switzerland, fully back to normal, and began studying at a university in
Zurich. For years, Dr. Witztum received Christmas cards from him.
Dr. Bar-El says that when people snap out of the syndrome, they remember
the experience as very pleasant, and not traumatic. Still, Dr. Bar-El, whose
one last name means "Son of God," says he usually stops short of telling
patients they aren't who they think they are. After all, he says, "I'm not
sure the patient will be any happier when he realizes that he's not God."
...........................
End of Article
-+-
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From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Advice
Date: 9 Jan 92 22:43:40 GMT
A situation has arisen here that I need some advice on. An "abductee" has come
to me with her story, some of which is consciously remembered and some of which
is buried. She has rejected hypnosis, as she does not trust it - too much
chance for confabulation. Yet she does have a sincere desire to find out the
meaning of her recollections. And I have *no* desire to force my own particular
-or any- agenda on her. She seems a prime candidate for a self-help group which
I am considering forming here, but I'm not sure that's wise until her
recollections have been explored in more depth.
I guess the big question is, what advice does one give a potential abduction
victim who has no desire for hypnosis?
Jim
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 10 Jan 92 10:54:00 GMT
>That is laughable at best, unless you remove the words between
superficial
>and Christianity. I think Christianity is not alone in its appeal
>to narrow-mindedness and superficiality.
Right. I am narrow minded and you (just as strong opinion) are not!
Now THAT is laughable or maybe one might cry because it's sad when one
accuses someone else of something of which _he_ may be guilty.
>My point, which you
>have neatly skirted, is that structured religion has appeal
particularly
>to the uneducated or those of 'average intelligence.' I think the
>Mensa claim is rather overblown for several reasons.
And just what do you base this claim on? Your vast store of knowledge?
Oh yes, that must be it. Like your great understanding of what
Christianity teaches. If a surgeon had a similar vast store of
knowledge, all hapless victims who fell under his knife would DIE. Why
can't you admit that YOU believe what YOU believe and I believe what I
believe and ... read my lips.. BOTH ARE VALID, OK? If you say anything
else than that, then it is _you_ who are the narrow minded one, not
myself!
>I also know too many people of little thought
>who are rabidly religious, and it is my observation that these people
>appear to be hypnotized and seek in their religion the answer to
>all questions great and small.
Yes, and I know too many UFOnuts who are of little thought and as
superstitous as hell so should I conclude that UFOLOGY must appeal to
the uneducated superstitous fool? That's the conclusion you are making
for religion!
>And, for that matter, membership in
>Mensa means you have passed a test and feel compelled to join a
>so-called high-IQ organization, an interesting phenomenon in itsel4f.
Elementary my dear Watson. Being surrounded by fools, the idea of
being in a room which excludes a vast quantity of such fools is rather
appealing... quite appealing. And I didn't 'pass' the test to get into
MENSA. I took an IQ score from a previous test and submitted it. It
far exceeds the qualification needed for MENSA (IQ 132), so you see I
am really not that impressed with the figure.
I came here to try and obtain some information. I asked some searching
questions to try and extract this information from those supposedly in
the 'know' about these things. I did not come here to be told I am a
narrow minded so and so or that my belief system stinks, anymore than I
expected to say that to someone else. I had never found any REAL
positive information even providing reasonable suspicion that aliens
have visited and/or abducted. I thought you folks could provide me
with such but instead I got attacked for daring to doubt the vast
quantity of anecdotal and somewhat not too believable data I have seen
in the past on this subject.
It's interesting to note that I asked the same searching questions
about the Catholic church but unlike here, I got very definitive and
intellectual answers. So, laugh away at religion, you fools... right
now, it's looking a lot more convincing than your deal. TTFN
--
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 10 Jan 92 11:03:00 GMT
>Please, stick to a scientific approach, or pass this echo by. Further
>religious discussions will result in a second warning to get on
>subject here.
> A third warning will result in your being locked out. This is
>part of the agreement you participate in by using these echos, and
>should be posted on the board through which you have access.
>
>Asking the researchers here to accept religious rationnalizations
>is NOT what this echo is about.
Oh, no freedom of speech here, right? A scientific approach will knock
YOU out of the water as well. In fact, it will knock you out of the
water much quicker than it will Christianity. There is historical
proof the man Jesus existed. There are many logical proofs that God
exists as well... these are so respected - Thomas Acquinas for
example.. that they are studied in secular universities.
Proof for UFOS and abductions is anecdotal. This is NOT scientific.
(and they call ME narrow minded... hrumph.). I just wanted to obtain
some information. Are you saying I cannot question this but MUST
accept that yes, because a bunch of people said so-and-so, it must have
happened? Even though there has been NO observable evidence and no
logical proofs thereof? That is truly blind acceptance if I ever heard
of it. Well, if one must blindly accept your deal and not question it
(and by the way, the scientific method does question ALL) then it is
not really 'scientific' you want me to be. You want me to be a blind
believer. You are worse than the fundies (I have never been locked out
of a fundamentalist board even though Catholics ain't their favorite
cup of tea). But do as you wish. I do have free speech.
(if anyone would like to discuss this on a FREE SPEECH BBS where people
don't get locked out for disagreeing or questioning... call:
{Cheese Whiz Wildcat! BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400}
{Sue}
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 10 Jan 92 11:15:00 GMT
(you're such a friendly group!)
>I called Mensa. I talked to their public
>information officer. I discovered your statistic is ERRONEOUS.
Well, whomever you talked to was not aware of this. And they DO have
stats... maybe he just was not bothering with you. These stats were
published in the MENSA directory as a matter of fact and yes, it is
over 60 percent who claim a belief in God. This is obtained from the
forms we fill out... oh, I see what might have happened.. you mentioned
a study so whomever you were talking to didn't think of the demography
which is obtained from the forms we fill out when we renew.
>Superficial and unknowledgeable is exactly how I would characterize
>your understanding of this entire phenomenon. This is interesting
>for the rest of us to see in that it shows such a poor grasp of
>the scientific method and of basic logical principles. It also
>pretty well proves that your veracity is at an all time low. Why
>should anyone believe anything you say when it has been shown you
>use untruths to bolster your argument?
No, you just didn't check the right thing because not being a member of
MENSA, you wouldn't have known about the demographic data. I did a
check on it because I wanted to start a SIG for Catholics but wanted to
see if there would be any interest in it before I went through the
work.
A more intelligent answer to my claim from you would have been 'but
yes, that is lower than that of the general population' (75-85 percent
claim a belief in God.. I wonder what percentage claim a belief in
UFO's) I wonder what percentage of MENSA claims a belief in UFO's..
this would be more difficult to obtain because it's not a question
asked on the demographic data sheet we fill out for renewal.
And in all of this, you have insulted me, been rude about my belief set
but you have not PROVEN YOUR DEAL! Now, my dear, what else could I
conclude but that there IS no proof.
I am obviously getting locked out of here. IF you want to provide
such proof, I am still interested. This can be books or whatever. If
you have such a thing (which was my original reasons for asking
searching questions), please do log on my BBS and post this proof.
Thank you.
{Sue}
{Cheese Whiz Wildcat! BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400}
--
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 10 Jan 92 11:17:00 GMT
>Your research into the Mensa nonsense is greatly appreciated.
Even if his
'research' was erroneous? <snicker>
But of course.. it agrees with you, so it's great... <sigh>
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: If Ufo's
Date: 10 Jan 92 11:34:00 GMT
re: if UFO's exist...
That's a question I have asked a few times myself. Perhaps someone
here will answer it...
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From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 10 Jan 92 11:45:00 GMT
Well hi there sweetness. I did some checking myself and could not find
the 60 percent statistic I quoted in the lastest MENSA register. But I
did find something of interest which I thought I'd share:
49 percent of Mensans claim a Christian orientation. And only 7
percent are agnostic, and 3.6 percent atheist! hahaha.. that's better
than the 60 percent!
Oh, and when you call to verify this, tell the public information
person that he can read this in the 1989 MENSA Register, page I about
the middle of the page.
TTFN
and I DON'T appreciate being called a liar... that is the rude-ist.
But you don't have to worry about being locked out of the echo because
you agree with the coordinator... *grin*
{sue}
{Cheese Whiz Wildcat! BBS 602-279-0793 - We don't do "Windows"}
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****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!abduct
Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com
Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters:
DOMAIN firstname.lastname@paranet.org
UUCP scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 39
Monday, January 13th 1992
Today's Topics:
Abduction thread
Re: If Ufo's
Re: Abduction thread
Re: abductions
I'm back.
Abduction research
Abduction research
RESEARCH
Abductions
Research
Australian abductions
Australian abductions 2
Australian abductions 3
Australian abductions 4
Australian abductions 5
Welcome Back!
I'm Back.
Abduction Research
I'm back.
Premature Births
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Abduction thread
Date: 10 Jan 92 16:02:12 GMT
Is it my imagination, or has this thread gotten a little out of control? I
think fouls have been committed on both sides. Sue, it was you who brought
religion into this discussion in the first place, and you do seem to be
steadfastly unwilling to examine the sources we have quoted for you, choosing
instead to point to that which you HAVE read and insisting that it doesn't
constitute proof. You also made some demonstrably unsupportable statements
regarding alcohol use and UFO perception. Mike, while I know how tempting it is
to bash religion, I think it sets a better example to try to steer the
conversation back on course. Doug, I don't think its proper to show support for
one user's arguments over another's while wearing your echo moderator's hat.
Can we start over? Sue thinks abductions are a reflection of an innate need for
religion among those who reject traditional forms. I don't think its necessary
to bash Christianity to counter this; its much easier to show that abduction
percipients run the gamut of religious belief, from Betty Andreasson Luca
(devout Christian) to "Lydia" (secular humanist). Furthermore, the effect of
the abduction experience is not to convert the percipient to one religion or
another, as might be expected, but to reinforce the percipient's previously
held beliefs, at least in the two cases I cited. Betty Luca is still a devout
Christian, and thinks her experience ratifies her beliefs. Lydia is still a
secular humanist, and eschews any spiritual explanation for her experience.
As far as abductions "proving" anything, I don't think anyone here is making
such a claim. The only claims being put forth on this echo regard what
abductions are NOT: according to our best information, they are NOT a generally
recognized form of psychosis or delusion. They MAY be related to
fantasy-proneness, as Basterfield et al have shown, and this is certainly a
viable avenue for inquiry.
I hope this gets us back on track.
Jim
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: If Ufo's
Date: 10 Jan 92 21:15:00 GMT
Hi Sue,
Yes, I think UFO's do exist. The problem is that, like most mysteries,
this one is unidentified. We must keep in touch and share thoughts and
experiences, in my opinion, and we must not ridicule those who think
they have seem something truly unexplainable.
Best,
Linda
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From: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Rogers)
Subject: Re: Abduction thread
Date: 11 Jan 92 07:55:15 GMT
As always, Jim, your insights are appreciated. I hope your post has the
desired result. Mine certainly have not.
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From: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Rogers)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 11 Jan 92 08:01:58 GMT
>
> 49 percent of Mensans claim a Christian orientation. And
> only 7 percent are agnostic, and 3.6 percent atheist!
> hahaha.. that's better than the 60 percent!
<ahem>
Can you spell "assumption"? You "assume" that those expressing no religious
orientation are Xian. I believe this is an unsupportable assumption.
Could we *PLEASE* move away from religion and get back on topic in this echo?
Jim Spieser has posted a very rational suggestion as to avenues to persue.
Perhaps you would enjoy seeing where they go.
One last clarification. It is my *function* here to attempt to keep the echos
"on topic". That is to say, the topics labeled on the subscriber BBS's are to
be the topics discussed in the relative echos. I would get on your case just
as quickly for a discussion of Mickey Mouse cartoons in this echo as I will
your religious discussions. Your cries of "free speech" are totally out of
order. There is regulation in *any* network. Were there not, we, the sysops,
would be paying big bucks to move messages around (like this one) that have
nothing to do with the reason we subscribed to the echo.
Having said all of this can we PLEASE get back on the abduction issue? If you
have problems with this, take it up with your sysop and allow him/her to
discuss it in our sysop area.
NOT a warning. Just a request.
--
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: I'm back.
Date: 9 Jan 92 12:14:15 GMT
I would like to say hello to all my friends and colleagues again. It
seems that I have resurfaced after all these months. I only have a few
seconds left on the BBS so I will wait for some messages in the hopes of
getting up an interesting dialogue on abductions and UFOs.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
--
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 6 Jan 92 03:59:00 GMT
Thanks for the "comments" on the paranormal aspects of that abduction
case you posted. The links between events with heavy emotional
overlay, and later use of these events to relive these emotions is
particularly relevant to abduction research. Our brain has a
tremendous capacity to recall minute details/emotions/bodily
experiences of every moment we live. Think of people who have been
involved in an accident who can relive in real time the last few
seconds of an accident. Then move to an abduction researcher who says
that only a real event can trigger later emotional recall, i.e. post
traumatic stress disorder always has its roots in a real physical
event. It is a strong argument.
Regression hypnosis is utilised to probe deeeper into the mind of an
abductee who may remember something of an abudction. Under hyponosis
they recall the entire abduction, they scream, laugh and cry when
recalling the event.
Take another person who has vague feelings that they have lived
before, i.e. they have a past life. Regress them and you might
discover they were burnt at the stake as a witch. As they recall
burning/dying, under regression, safe in a chair in a room in 1992,
they scream, cry and show signs on their skin as if induced by heat.
In another instance what appear to be rope marks might show on their
skin. Later, it is conclusively show that their story matches the
storyline of a novel written in the 20th century. This emotional
evidence falls away, it is meaninglesss, because it was created by the
mind of the "past lifer."
Has any abductee been screened for past lives?
It seems to me that we should not just be researching abductions, but
tying it in to current research with out of body experiences, near
death experiences, and past life research. More in next message.
--
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 6 Jan 92 04:17:00 GMT
I wanted to explore the apparent association between the paranormal
and abductions a bit more. I have noted over the years that a large
number of researchers have commented on the association of paranormal
events and the UFO phenomenon in general but the abduction phenomenon
specifically. In the couple of cases here in Adelaide which I have
studied closest-in one case coming up to two years now, there were
numerous paranormal and abduction episodes scattered over the lifetime
of the abductee. In both instances there were associated poltergeist
phenomenon, prophetic dreams, precognition, out of body experiences,
and other unusual episodes. Now, poltergeist events are fairly
rare-for example 3% of the British population reckon they have
experienced poltergeists. Apparitions-some 11-14% of the population.
OBE;s say up to 10% of the population. Now by statistical chance one
particular person has a probability of 3/100
times 11/100 times 10/100 etc of having all the events happen to them.
For this particular person to also be an abductee which is a very
small percentage of the total population seems to be to indicate
something unusual about this individual. Interesting! Now if you
examine the mainstream psychological literature on the fantasy-prone
individual you will see that in Barber and Wilson's original 1981 work
they found that some 3/4 of FPPers had OBEs, saw apparitions etc.
Now, does that mean some individuals are open to paranromal events
including abductions? Do the real aliens zero in on psychic people?
Are FPPers really psychic or does their imagination create a belief in
them that these paranormal episodes occur?
The questions needing answering are numerous.
I'd like to see a standard set of questions about their paranormal
experiences given to all abductees when they are interviewed. I feel
we may learn that most if not all abductees score above average for
paranormal events in their lives. Interestingly, Budd Hopkins' work
has never explored or indicated any paranormal events to any of his
abductees.
I'll be exploring this connection myself in an article I'm currently
writing, to open up some dialogue.
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: RESEARCH
Date: 6 Jan 92 04:19:00 GMT
Sorry Sheldon, I'm in the dark as much as you on the term "RESEARCH".
Is this another folder on PARANET? Perhaps Mike Corbin could
illuminate us?
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 7 Jan 92 05:43:00 GMT
Hi Jim, there is a copy of the UFORA Australian abduction and missing
time catalogue on its way to you by airmail-should be there in about
10 days.
Re the question of objective/subjective. Eddie Bullard's massive
review of abduction texts left him with the impression that the
subjective elements of the abduction experience outwayed the objective
elements. I think by this he was suggesting a psychological basis
rather than a physical basis to the phenomenon. In the Dec 91 issue of
the UK Journal "Fortean Times" Eddie is interviewed by Bob Rickard:
page 49:-
"FT: You have said-in Jerome Clark's UFO Encyclopedia-that you incline
towards a psychological or psycho-social interpretation of these
stories, but the physical evidnce in some of these case troubled you.
Are you any nearer to resolving that dilemma?
EB: No, not really. Some abduction cases have to be psychological;
there's no way the events could really have happened as described."
In the local abduction cases I've been involved with a woman, as a
young girl reports being levitated off her bed and floated through a
wall, then follows the classical medical examination and trip around
the ship, plus being show her future life. How objective is being
floated through a wall? That's what I meant by some subjective and
some objective elements that need to be dealt with.
A classic Australian abduction is that of Maureen Puddy who whilst in
the company of VUFORS UFO researchers Paul Norman and Judith Magee
lasped unto unconsciousness in a car, and then reported being inside a
round room, entity there etc. She never physically left their presence
yet an abduction event occurred.
Question, if we and Eddie accept that some cases are psychological and
yet these psyhcological caused ones tell exactly the same story as a
"real" abduction, how do we tell them apart? How can you prove a real
one was real? THis would be a good question to ask Eddie, which cases
does he feel are psychological?
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Research
Date: 7 Jan 92 05:51:00 GMT
Lest people get the impression that I'm sugegsting that THE answer to
abductions is simply psychological, I'm not. I think they deserve
serious scientific attention by health professionals. However, let's
investigate the psychological possibilities whilst looking at all
aspects. I don't think many of the "pro ETH" anduction researchers
have done this yet. For example, in his otherwise excellent MUFON
Symposium paper on abductions, John S Carpenter, a psychologist,
reviewed a number of possible psychopathological explanations for
abductions, including psychosis, schizophrenia, hysteria, dissociative
states, paranoia, and sociopathic personality and quite rightly
decides that these explanations are inadequate in explaining many
abduction cases. However, despite the fantasy prone personality
hypothesis having been around since 1988 he doesn't discuss it at
all-never mentions it as worthy of review. I'm quite happen to
entertain the ETH as an answer, but based on data and omitting no
possibilities.
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Australian abductions
Date: 8 Jan 92 03:17:00 GMT
A while ago Michael Corbin asked me to describe some of our
abduction/missing times cases for you. This and the following messages
provided summaries of the 17 cases I have been associated with over
the last few years:-
1. Sep/Oct 1970 Sydney New South Wales "Adrian".
One night a man noticed a red/orange glow in the bush close to his
home. He took his dog and went to investigate. Getting closer to it he
saw a glow illuminating the area. His dog became excited and dashed
into the bush. There next appears a discontinuity in his physical and
emotional recall-an apparent period of "missing time." He next
recalled seeing an owl fly past him and he could hear his own internal
thought : 'There's something I should remember.' Strangely, he felt
comfortable with this, lost interest in the glow and went home.
(UFORA91036 Keith Basterfield and Julia Elsbeth).
2. 1972 Largs Bay South Australia "Carol Williams."
A 27 year old woman reported a lifelong series of experiences which
commenced with a CE1 at age 6. This was followed by other UFO
experiences, poltergeist activity, telepathy, precognitive dreams, an
out of body experience, lucid dreams, hypnagogic imagery and sleep
paralysis, amongst other things. Of particular interest was a
recurrent nightmare of encounters with a strange dwarf in an unusual
room. Memories of some of these events were triggered after watching
an "Unsolved Mysteries" segment on abductions on television. Under
regression recollection eventuated of one abduction at age 9. Partial
recollection of a second possible abduction at age 15 ran into a
mental block. A friend of hers participated in some of the
experiences and was present in the same room at the age 15 episode.
Regression of this second woman confirmed parts of carol's story but
not the abduction.
(UFORA89036 UFORSA & Keith Basterfield).
3. 1974 Elizabeth South Australia "Lisa."
A woman recalled, that as a 9 year old girl, she and a friend observed
a UFO at close range in suburban Elizabeth. As she had memories of
observing the UFO from two different locations a fraction of a second
apart, she suspected a period of missing time. Regression revealed no
abduction scenario.
(UFORA89037 UFORSA & Keith Basterfield.)
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Australian abductions 2
Date: 8 Jan 92 03:32:00 GMT
4. 1977-1989 Adelaide South Australia "Anne Hastings."
A 34 year old woman related at least 3 encounters with entities. The
first appears to be religious. On the second, one night she suddenly
found herself recalling that she had somehow been in a very large room
where there had been a large number of human-like figures, including a
human child about age 10. The room showed no apparent source of
illumination. It was warmly lit-a very light soft blue colour.
Breathing was no problem, gravity was normal and the temperature was
skin temperature. She can recall conversing with the child. On the
following occasion she had retired to bed when she found herself
drifting through tunnels. Suddenly she was in a room. This time the
people present were not human. They had pointed faces, large heads,
and slanted very dark blue eyes. Their heads were quite swollen at the
forehead, with their ears being little, with no lobes as such. They
had thin bodies, were grey in colour and short in stature. One of the
female aliens was carrying a baby. The baby had its arms outstretched
and the witness asked to hold and nurse it. Suddenly, she knew she had
to go and found herself back in bed. She quickly fell asleep. In her
teens she underwent precognitive dreams and later in life (continuing)
precognitive visions.
(UFORA89016 Ray Brooke & Keith Basterfield.)
5. Mar 1978 Gisborne New Zealand 'P'
Three women were involved in an apparent abduction event in the midst
of a large UFO flap near Gisborne which began in 1977. One night they
were lying on a hillside watching the skies, and felt that a period of
missing time occurred. Shortly after the event a regression hypnosis
sesssion was arranged and an abduction scenario revealed. In 1989
during a retrospective investigation by Keith Basterfield and Bill
Chalker, a regression session was conducted with 'P'. This revealed an
account of being drawn up a beam of light, and of talking to a male
entity. All 3 women then found themselves back on the hillside.
(UFORA89017 Original investigation by Bryan Dickeson. 1989 by Keith
Basterfield and Bill Chalker.)
6. 1979 Melbourne Victoria "Mark."
A man retied to bed one night at about 11 p.m. Shortly after closing
his eyes he lost all sense of sound and feeling and found himself
travelling in a tunnel through space. Looking forwards he noted a
light at the end of the tunnel. His next awareness was of lying on a
table in a "craft". He was being medically examined by 3 beings. One
of the beings seemed to be a human female, with long blonde hair. The
other 2 were some 150cm tall, fat and of a dark brown colour. These
latter two had plumpish faces, large eyes, a large nose and bigger
lips and ears than us. They addressed him in English and seemed like
scientists. When they intoruced a "scanner" he "freaked out" and woke
up in his own bed. All his teeth were numb and his knuckles were
white.
(Garry Little.)
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Australian abductions 3
Date: 8 Jan 92 03:50:00 GMT
7. 1980-1989 Adelaide South Australia "Barbara White."
A young woman wanted assistance to determine the origin of 3
relatively large triangular scars on her forehead which had simply
appeared over night some 2 years prior. Over a 10 year period Barbara
saw UFOs, had a near death out of body experience, and a peak
experience. She also experienced telepathy, precognitive visions,
sleep paralysis, hypnagogic imagery, and other psychic style events.
As to the marks on the forehead she did have recollections of
something touching her forehead during one night, following which the
marks were seen the next day which later resulted in the current
scars. Under regression she recounted how a "shadow" was in her room
and shone a laser-like beam of light onto her forehead.
(UFORA90038 UFORSA & Keith Basterfield.)
8. 24 Oct 1981 Port Lincoln South Australia Messrs P & J
2 young men were travelling by car when they encountered a "white
endless space" where a time loss of several hours is said to have
occurred. During this lost time they have vague memories of a "being"
and recalled "...walking into a big room..." Just prior to this
"space" they had been watching a mysterious light in the sky. They did
not wish a complete investigation.
(Keith Basterfield & Pony Godic).
9. 1983 Darwin Northern Territory "Simon".
A 16 year old reported a series of events which included a night time
encounter, a number of dreams and also observations of entities about
the house. However, his sketches of the entities were straight copies
of Betty Andreasson's beings copied from the original Fowler book
which he had read. An investigation revealed a possible psychologcal
explanation for the story.
(Keith Basterfield & Pony Godic.)
10 Ca 1988 Adelaide South Australia "Jan".
A married woman went to bed one night and during the night had a very
vivid experience which she believes was not a dream. She found herself
in this white space. Present were 3 entities. They were some 210cm
tall, and covered in gowns. She wasn't frightened of them. She had a
discussion with them. Next morning she had a vivid recall of the
events of the night apart from the content of the conversation.
Personality changes ensued from that time. Since then she has reported
episodes of sleep paralysis, and other unusual activity.
(UFORA91037 Keith Basterfield.)
11 Ca 1988 Mid North South Australia "Elizabeth."
Over a number of years a woman has experienced interactions with
aliens. All these have taken place in her bedroom on the interface
between sleep and wakefulness. Some of the episodes have involved
sexual contact.
(UFORA91038 Keith Basterfield.)
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Australian abductions 4
Date: 8 Jan 92 04:03:00 GMT
12 1988(?) Adelaide South Australia "Frank."
A man reported that he was in 2 way communication with aliens via an
implant in his ear. During an investigation it was revealed that he
had undergone 2 apparent out of body experiences where he was "sucked
out" of his body. He indicated that during these episodes he had been
taken onboard a UFO. His account was set in the context of the Ashtar
command via automatic writing.
13 Lifelong Adelaide South Australia "Susan."
A 31 year old woman told how at age 10-11 she was abducted from her
bedroom by 1 tall and a group of small, entities. The smaller beings
were some 120cm tall, with large bald heads. They had large eye
sockets, no visible pupils, with dark blue or black eyes. With a slit
mouth and a small nose. The taller being seemed to be in command, and
was some 210cm tall. Susan was levitated off the bed and taken to a
circular "room" where she received a medical examination whilst lying
on a metal table. The next conscious recollection was of waking up in
her own bed. Regression sessions documented her abduction claim. This
woman also recounts numerous lifelong episodes of such things as
poltergeist activity, a sense of presence, being told she levitated
whilst she slept, seeing objects such as childrens'tricycles moving by
themselves, experiencing apparitions, precognitive visions, telepathy
and spirit photographs. There were also claims of unusual implants in
her mouth. In addition there are fragmentary recall of a number of
other abductions. The case is set in the context of the woman being an
adult survivor of childhood sexual abuse.
(UFORA90045 UFORSA & Keith Basterfield.)
14 Lifelong Tasmania/South Australia "Nigel."
A number of paranormal and abduction-like events were reported by a 27
year old man in 1990. These included a 1987 event in which he woke
paralysed in bed. Something was being pushed into a vein in his arm.
Upon awakening he found a hole in his arm from which blood was
issuing.
(UFORA90066 Keith Basterfield & Julia Elsbeth.)
15 Jul 1989 Adelaide South Australia "Julian."
A man and his wife have recollections of being abducted on the same
night. He recalls an entity with oval shaped head, large black eyes, a
slit for a mouth and nostrils, looking at him.
(UFORA91098 Keith Basterfield.)
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Australian abductions 5
Date: 8 Jan 92 04:10:00 GMT
16 Jun 1988 Jamestown South Australia "Bronte."
A 58 year old farmer related that one night he experienced an unusual
"attack" whilst in bed. Later he saw a UFO at close range and found a
disturbed area of ground.
(UFORSA).
17 1988-1990 Melbourne Victoria "Rita."
Several unusual episodes are said to have occurred to a Victorian
woman. Episodes included her 6 year old son telling her that several
small men entered his bedroom, shinign a "torch" at him. In addition
her 14 year old daughter told her she had seen a large, luminous
object floating down their driveway. The woman herself had been
physically pulled out of bed by "something" one night. Finally, the
woman recalled a "dream" from age 7 in which 3 "pixies" entered her
room and took her away.
(UFORA91044 Keith Basterfield.)
These then are the cases I have been associated with so far. Note the
variety of experiences, the tunnel like manner of some abductions,
similar to near death experience imagery.
Comments, etc are sought.
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Welcome Back!
Date: 12 Jan 92 05:42:03 GMT
In a message to All <09-Jan-92 05:14> David Jacobs wrote:
DJ> I would like to say hello to all my friends and colleagues
DJ> again.
Hi Dave, and welcome back! Discussion is just now starting to pick
up on this echo (as I'm certain you've noticed), so you couldn't
have been more timely in your return. I know Mike Corbin has been
working furiously to set up a node for you in PA. I see he's
succeeded.
DJ> It seems that I have resurfaced after all these months.
^^^^^^^^^^
Ah Ha, so you've been vacationing at the underground base in
Dulce... that explains your mysterious disappearance.<g> Seriously,
I know how busy you've been. Your book is due out in March, is it
not? Can't wait to read it.
DJ> I will wait for some messages in the hopes of
DJ> getting up an interesting dialogue on abductions and UFOs.
There are quite a few in the message base now for you to scan
through and comment on. Also, if you have received my letter of a
couple weeks back, and have not yet responded, please feel free to
do so in this forum. Thanks --
Take care,
Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: I'm Back.
Date: 12 Jan 92 19:10:00 GMT
> I would like to say hello to all my friends and colleagues again. It
> seems that I have resurfaced after all these months. I only have a few
> seconds left on the BBS so I will wait for some messages in the hopes
> of
> getting up an interesting dialogue on abductions and UFOs.
Welcome back Dave! Hope to see you posting often. Keith Basterfield has been
anxiously awaiting your re-appearance. Enjoy!
Mike
P.S. Make an announcement on your upcoming book.
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 13 Jan 92 01:11:01 GMT
Hello Keith, and many thanks for the most interesting statistical
data and condensed case histories you have provided us with.
Intercontinental dialogue at its finest - thanks to ParaNet.
The paranormal/abduction correlation you suspect does seem to
manifest itself in at least 5 out of 6 cases I am personally
familiar with. One woman, while a student at Southern Illinois
University, reported numerous poltergeist type incidents, such as
overturned water glasses righting themselves, and drapes opening
spontaneously. Another, reported a single, very profound OBE, in
which her image allegedly became visible to a friend. All recited
accounts of prophetic dreams, clairvoyance, precognition, etc.
First we must determine conclusively, through the currently
available percipient profile database, if this posited link does
indeed exist. Next, we must construct hypotheses that conform to
the observed data. Many questions must be answered, some of which
you touched upon in your last message.
Are individuals that are susceptible to paranormal events, also
prospective abductees? Do abductees, ex post facto, then become
"paranormal prone"? How do we define and confirm the paranormal
event? I agree with you that it seems likely that most abductees
would score higher than average on a standardized paranormal
aptitude test.
Personally, I feel that the majority of the UFO/abduction scenario
may be more of an intangible psycho-sociological phenomenon than
anything else. I base this observation on the fact that after all
these years, we have little (some would say none!) physical
confirmation of UFO's/abductions. MOST, but NOT all UFO sightings
can be resolved through temporal mechanisms. The most popular point
of departure for abductees of late has become the percipient's
bedroom - which augments the probability of hypnopompic/hypnogogic
imagery. Your cited case of Maureen Puddy, lapsing into
unconsciousness in the presence of VUFORS investigators, and later
reciting an abduction event which could not have been physical,
lends credence to some type of psychological etiology. What
happened to Maureen was certainly far more complex than a dream -
but what was it?
I, like you Keith, am not stating that the abduction issue can be
satisfactorily settled through known psychological mechanisms.
Obviously, it's just not that rudimentary. However, it does appear
that psychological method is the primary vehicle to utilize in
unraveling this enigma.
Thanks again Keith for your post,
Sheldon @ FIDO 1:11/50
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: I'm back.
Date: 11 Jan 92 18:35:00 GMT
> I would like to say hello to all my friends and colleagues again. It
> seems that I have resurfaced after all these months. I only have a few
>
> seconds left on the BBS so I will wait for some messages in the hopes
> of
> getting up an interesting dialogue on abductions and UFOs.
>
Ahlevai! Welcome back, David. I hope you have been able to track the last few
weeks worth of messages on this echo. If not, please advise and one of us can
use FastForward to update Chris's message base.
We're finally getting some good traffic here, with the participation of
Basterfield, Wernikoff, Rodeghier, and perhaps a real-live abductee or two.
To the lurkers out there, this is one area where you may use an alias, so
please feel free to post, especially if you have some suspicions that you may
have had the abduction experience.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Brent.Wilcox@p5.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Brent Wilcox)
Subject: Premature Births
Date: 13 Jan 92 01:03:24 GMT
I won't claim that all abduction experiences stem from this source,
but I wonder if anyone has pursued this angle...
I've encountered a few people on BBS systems who claim abduction
experiences, or "borderline" abduction experiences -- paranormal
encounters that are similar but not quite the same as "alien
abductions".
Several of them -- it came out -- were born prematurely. I'm aware
of the "birth trauma" theory of abductions, and wonder is anyone has
looked for premie births in the data. Even more potentially
traumatic than birth itself might be being stuck in an incubator
and/or hooked to life support equipment.
--
Brent Wilcox - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!abduct
Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com
Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters:
DOMAIN firstname.lastname@paranet.org
UUCP scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname
****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************
Abduction Digest, Number 40
Wednesday, January 15th 1992
Today's Topics:
Premature Births
Advice
Re: abductions
abductions and FPP
Premature Births
Salem Therapist
Australian abductions
Australian abductions 2
Australian abductions3
Australian abductions 4
Australian abductions 5
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Premature Births
Date: 14 Jan 92 05:16:01 GMT
In a message to All <12-Jan-92 18:03> Brent Wilcox wrote:
BW> I'm aware of the "birth trauma" theory of abductions, and
BW> wonder is anyone has looked for premie births in the data.
BW> Even more potentially traumatic than birth itself might be
BW> being stuck in an incubator and/or hooked to life support
BW> equipment.
Interesting commentary Brent. The individual would of course have
no conscious recollection of this neo-natal vestige, although the
effects on the psyche, as you suggest, could be profound.
I am unaware if any such statistical data has been compiled.
Perhaps some of the others on this echo are so informed.
Take care,
-- Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Advice
Date: 13 Jan 92 06:17:00 GMT
> I guess the big question is, what advice does one give a potential
> abduction victim who has no desire for hypnosis?
Have her be sure she writes down *every tidbit* at the time she recalls it.
Very important that she take the time *right then* to write it down.
She could later look over all that stuff and it might trigger more memories.
I'll forward your message to a local sympathetic shrink via netmail; maybe
he can help.
jbh
--
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From: Danny.Brandenburg@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Danny Brandenburg)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 13 Jan 92 10:19:53 GMT
Someone seems to have a real attitude about Mensa. Geesh, calm down.
Now back to the subject at hand...
Yes, there is obviously a strong connection between Mensa and
religious beliefs. However, I really don't think this proves much in
the field of UFO work. I will be very interested, amazed, and willing
to listen if Mensa members can *produce* evidence to support their
religious claims.
Well, I am babbling as usual due to me writing this at 3:30 am so
I suppose I will close for now.
Danny Brandenburg
--
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From: Danny.Brandenburg@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Danny Brandenburg)
Subject: abductions and FPP
Date: 13 Jan 92 10:29:18 GMT
Has there been a general demographic description of abductees? This
would be very interesting to look at. I would predict (just a
groundless belief) that "most" (not all) people that claim abduction
experience would be from a non-traditional religious background (ie. New
Age, etc.). If this is true, one cannot easily explain why there are
others from other religious backgrounds (ie. Christian, atheist, etc.)
also have these experiences.
Personally, I do believe that the abduction claims are true...to an
extent. I still have a hard time believing the abductions are
attributed to "aliens", but there is certainly something happening.
Too much evidence has been collected (and being collected) to dismiss
this as fantasy alone.
Danny Brandenburg
--
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From: Brent.Wilcox@p5.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Brent Wilcox)
Subject: Premature Births
Date: 14 Jan 92 21:08:45 GMT
In a message to Brent Wilcox <13 Jan 92 22:16> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:
SW> Interesting commentary Brent. The individual would of course have
SW> no conscious recollection of this neo-natal vestige, although the
SW> effects on the psyche, as you suggest, could be profound.
Yes. Instead of cozy maternal imprinting and bonding, the infant is
whisked away by friendly, caring strangers who isolate it and often
perform medical proceedures on it (until recently newborns were
operated on without anesthesia). Sounds uncannilly -- to me -- like
the "caring but alien" treatment some abductees report.
I was a premie myself, and spent several weeks in an incubator.
I've never had a classic "abduction experience", but I did have
recurrent dreams in my very early childhood that seem similar to
those some report (in my case, little figures who carried me out of
bed and up to "the attic") -- which I can best trace back to
post-birth experiences.
It was running into a couple other "premies" -- who actually claimed
abduction-like encounters but discounted their post-birth
experiences as anything but coincidence -- that got me thinking
about this angle.
But then, as a lifetime fan of science fiction, a follower of
fortean stuff since about the age of 9 or 10, and a writer, I'm no
doubt a "fantasy prone person" too. <g>
--
Brent Wilcox - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Salem Therapist
Date: 15 Jan 92 05:46:01 GMT
Hello David,
I've been corresponding with a very capable psychologist (Psy. D.)
in Salem, OR, who is most interested in becoming more involved with
abduction therapy. She has received a few cases through MUFON
referrals, but none have proven to be, in her opinion, without
complicating coexisting issues, which the subjects were unwilling
to explore.
I know there are individuals in that area that might be looking for
a qualified therapist to aid in coping with and understanding their
experience. Would you possibly be able to assist her in making some
connections? By the way... her area of focus has been sexually
abused women. Thanks --
-- Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Australian abductions
Date: 8 Jan 92 03:17:00 GMT
Hullo David, Allow me to introduce myself. Keith Basterfield, aged
41, living in Adelaide, South Australia. I have been interested in
the UFO phenomenon since 1968. Whilst accepting that there is core
UFO phenomenon beneath the thousands of reports I have been
advocating an exploration of all angles before reaching a conclusion.
When applied to the abduction phenomenon I have been suggesting a
thorough exploration of potential psychological explanations before
proceeding to alternative hypotheses. Some 2 years ago I teamed up
with Sociologist Bob Bartholomew to explore the fantasy-prone
personality as a possible hypothesis to explain some/all abductions.
This work recently saw light of day in a US Psych Journal. This work
was a suggestion to clinicians/abduction researcers to do some
testing since I did not have the scientific background to undertake
it myself. Ken Ring's work on NDErs and abductees said the FPP link
was weak/non-existent. CUFOS are almost through some psych testing of
the FPP hypothesis and I await their results with interest. If
abductees don't rate well as FPP then I think we can then move on to
other hypotheses. The ETH may then rate as the best fit. I have taken
this slow route because health professionals will themselves wish to
ensure no psych explanations fit before considering other hypotheses.
The US Psych article was intended to get people to look at the topic
not suggest we had THE answer. Since co-writing the article I have
worked with a number of abductees in my home state. Some seem to fit
the FPP some don't. A while ago Michael Corbin asked me to describe
some of our abduction/missing times cases. This and the following
messages provided summaries of the 17 cases I have been associated
with over the last few years:-
1. Sep/Oct 1970 Sydney New South Wales "Adrian".
One night a man noticed a red/orange glow in the bush close to his
home. He took his dog and went to investigate. Getting closer to it
he saw a glow illuminating the area. His dog became excited and
dashed into the bush. There next appears a discontinuity in his
physical and emotional recall-an apparent period of "missing time."
He next recalled seeing an owl fly past him and he could hear his own
internal thought : 'There's something I should remember.' Strangely,
he felt comfortable with this, lost interest in the glow and went
home. (UFORA91036 Keith Basterfield and Julia Elsbeth).
2. 1972 Largs Bay South Australia "Carol Williams."
A 27 year old woman reported a lifelong series of experiences which
commenced with a CE1 at age 6. This was followed by other UFO
experiences, poltergeist activity, telepathy, precognitive dreams, an
out of body experience, lucid dreams, hypnagogic imagery and sleep
paralysis, amongst other things. Of particular interest was a
recurrent nightmare of encounters with a strange dwarf in an unusual
room. Memories of some of these events were triggered after watching
an "Unsolved Mysteries" segment on abductions on television. Under
regression recollection eventuated of one abduction at age 9. Partial
recollection of a second possible abduction at age 15 ran into a
mental block. A friend of hers participated in some of the
experiences and was present in the same room at the age 15 episode.
Regression of this second woman confirmed parts of carol's story but
not the abduction. (UFORA89036 UFORSA & Keith Basterfield).
3. 1974 Elizabeth South Australia "Lisa."
A woman recalled, that as a 9 year old girl, she and a friend
observed a UFO at close range in suburban Elizabeth. As she had
memories of observing the UFO from two different locations a fraction
of a second apart, she suspected a period of missing time. Regression
revealed no abduction scenario. (UFORA89037 UFORSA & Keith
Basterfield.)
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Australian abductions 2
Date: 8 Jan 92 03:32:00 GMT
4 1977-1989 Adelaide South Australia "Anne Hastings."
A 34 year old woman related at least 3 encounters with entities. The
first appears to be religious. On the second, one night she suddenly
found herself recalling that she had somehow been in a very large
room where there had been a large number of human-like figures,
including a human child about age 10. The room showed no apparent
source of illumination. It was warmly lit-a very light soft blue
colour. Breathing was no problem, gravity was normal and the
temperature was skin temperature. She can recall conversing with the
child. On the following occasion she had retired to bed when she
found herself drifting through tunnels. Suddenly she was in a room.
This time the people present were not human. They had pointed faces,
large heads, and slanted very dark blue eyes. Their heads were quite
swollen at the forehead, with their ears being little, with no lobes
as such. They had thin bodies, were grey in colour and short in
stature. One of the female aliens was carrying a baby. The baby had
its arms outstretched and the witness asked to hold and nurse it.
Suddenly, she knew she had to go and found herself back in bed. She
quickly fell asleep. In her teens she underwent precognitive dreams
and later in life (continuing) precognitive visions. (UFORA89016 Ray
Brooke & Keith Basterfield.)
5. Mar 1978 Gisborne New Zealand 'P'
Three women were involved in an apparent abduction event in the midst
of a large UFO flap near Gisborne which began in 1977. One night they
were lying on a hillside watching the skies, and felt that a period
of missing time occurred. Shortly after the event a regression
hypnosis sesssion was arranged and an abduction scenario revealed. In
1989 during a retrospective investigation by Keith Basterfield and
Bill Chalker, a regression session was conducted with 'P'. This
revealed an account of being drawn up a beam of light, and of talking
to a male entity. All 3 women then found themselves back on the
hillside. (UFORA89017 Original investigation by Bryan Dickeson. 1989
by Keith Basterfield and Bill Chalker.)
6. 1979 Melbourne Victoria "Mark."
A man retied to bed one night at about 11 p.m. Shortly after closing
his eyes he lost all sense of sound and feeling and found himself
travelling in a tunnel through space. Looking forwards he noted a
light at the end of the tunnel. His next awareness was of lying on a
table in a "craft". He was being medically examined by 3 beings. One
of the beings seemed to be a human female, with long blonde hair. The
other 2 were some 150cm tall, fat and of a dark brown colour. These
latter two had plumpish faces, large eyes, a large nose and bigger
lips and ears than us. They addressed him in English and seemed like
scientists. When they intoruced a "scanner" he "freaked out" and woke
up in his own bed. All his teeth were numb and his knuckles were
white. (Garry Little.)
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Australian abductions3
Date: 8 Jan 92 03:50:00 GMT
7. 1980-1989 Adelaide South Australia "Barbara White."
A young woman wanted assistance to determine the origin of 3
relatively large triangular scars on her forehead which had simply
appeared over night some 2 years prior. Over a 10 year period Barbara
saw UFOs, had a near death out of body experience, and a peak
experience. She also experienced telepathy, precognitive visions,
sleep paralysis, hypnagogic imagery, and other psychic style events.
As to the marks on the forehead she did have recollections of
something touching her forehead during one night, following which the
marks were seen the next day which later resulted in the current
scars. Under regression she recounted how a "shadow" was in her room
and shone a laser-like beam of light onto her forehead. (UFORA90038
UFORSA & Keith Basterfield.)
8. 24 Oct 1981 Port Lincoln South Australia Messrs P & J
2 young men were travelling by car when they encountered a "white
endless space" where a time loss of several hours is said to have
occurred. During this lost time they have vague memories of a "being"
and recalled "...walking into a big room..." Just prior to this
"space" they had been watching a mysterious light in the sky. They
did not wish a complete investigation. (Keith Basterfield & Pony
Godic).
9. 1983 Darwin Northern Territory "Simon".
A 16 year old reported a series of events which included a night time
encounter, a number of dreams and also observations of entities about
the house. However, his sketches of the entities were straight copies
of Betty Andreasson's beings copied from the original Fowler book
which he had read. An investigation revealed a possible psychologcal
explanation for the story. (Keith Basterfield & Pony Godic.)
10 Ca 1988 Adelaide South Australia "Jan".
A married woman went to bed one night and during the night had a very
vivid experience which she believes was not a dream. She found
herself in this white space. Present were 3 entities. They were some
210cm tall, and covered in gowns. She wasn't frightened of them. She
had a discussion with them. Next morning she had a vivid recall of
the events of the night apart from the content of the conversation.
Personality changes ensued from that time. Since then she has
reported episodes of sleep paralysis, and other unusual activity.
(UFORA91037 Keith Basterfield.)
11 Ca 1988 Mid North South Australia "Elizabeth."
Over a number of years a woman has experienced interactions with
aliens. All these have taken place in her bedroom on the interface
between sleep and wakefulness. Some of the episodes have involved
sexual contact. (UFORA91038 Keith Basterfield.)
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Australian abductions 4
Date: 8 Jan 92 04:03:00 GMT
12. 1988(?) Adelaide South Australia "Frank."
A man reported that he was in 2 way communication with aliens via an
implant in his ear. During an investigation it was revealed that he
had undergone 2 apparent out of body experiences where he was "sucked
out" of his body. He indicated that during these episodes he had been
taken onboard a UFO. His account was set in the context of the Ashtar
command via automatic writing.
13 Lifelong Adelaide South Australia "Susan."
A 31 year old woman told how at age 10-11 she was abducted from her
bedroom by 1 tall and a group of small, entities. The smaller beings
were some 120cm tall, with large bald heads. They had large eye
sockets, no visible pupils, with dark blue or black eyes. With a slit
mouth and a small nose. The taller being seemed to be in command, and
was some 210cm tall. Susan was levitated off the bed and taken to a
circular "room" where she received a medical examination whilst lying
on a metal table. The next conscious recollection was of waking up
in her own bed. Regression sessions documented her abduction claim.
This woman also recounts numerous lifelong episodes of such things as
poltergeist activity, a sense of presence, being told she levitated
whilst she slept, seeing objects such as childrens'tricycles moving
by themselves, experiencing apparitions, precognitive visions,
telepathy and spirit photographs. There were also claims of unusual
implants in her mouth. In addition there are fragmentary recall of a
number of other abductions. The case is set in the context of the
woman being an adult survivor of childhood sexual abuse. (UFORA90045
UFORSA & Keith Basterfield.)
14 Lifelong Tasmania/South Australia "Nigel."
A number of paranormal and abduction-like events were reported by a
27 year old man in 1990. These included a 1987 event in which he woke
paralysed in bed. Something was being pushed into a vein in his arm.
Upon awakening he found a hole in his arm from which blood was
issuing. (UFORA90066 Keith Basterfield & Julia Elsbeth.)
15 Jul 1989 Adelaide South Australia "Julian."
A man and his wife have recollections of being abducted on the same
night. He recalls an entity with oval shaped head, large black eyes,
a slit for a mouth and nostrils, looking at him. (UFORA91098 Keith
Basterfield.)
--
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Australian abductions 5
Date: 8 Jan 92 04:10:00 GMT
16. Jun 1988 Jamestown South Australia "Bronte."
A 58 year old farmer related that one night he experienced an unusual
"attack" whilst in bed. Later he saw a UFO at close range and found a
disturbed area of ground. (UFORSA).
17 1988-1990 Melbourne Victoria "Rita."
Several unusual episodes are said to have occurred to a Victorian
woman. Episodes included her 6 year old son telling her that several
small men entered his bedroom, shinign a "torch" at him. In addition
her 14 year old daughter told her she had seen a large, luminous
object floating down their driveway. The woman herself had been
physically pulled out of bed by "something" one night. Finally, the
woman recalled a "dream" from age 7 in which 3 "pixies" entered her
room and took her away. (UFORA91044 Keith Basterfield.)
These then are the cases I have been associated with so far. Note the
variety of experiences, the tunnel like manner of some abductions,
similar to near death experience imagery.
Anyway David, hope this background and information on Australian cases
are of interest. Welcome back to the folder, and I hope we may all
have some interesting discussion on the topic of our mutual interests.
If I may help you with additional details on any of these cases,
please let me know either here or by mail at PO Box 302, Modbury
North, South Australia 5092. Bye.
--
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Abduction Digest, Number 41
Saturday, January 18th 1992
Today's Topics:
Premature Births
Abduction dialogue
Abductions
Abduction Dialogue
Premature Births
Re: Abductions
Abduction dialogue
Abductee list
Salem Therapist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Premature Births
Date: 15 Jan 92 23:05:01 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <14-Jan-92 14:08>
Brent Wilcox wrote:
BW> Yes. Instead of cozy maternal imprinting and bonding, the
BW> infant is whisked away by friendly, caring strangers who
BW> isolate it and often perform medical procedures on it (until
BW> recently newborns were operated on without anesthesia).
Hmmm... and conceivably yielding latent images of beings in
uniforms (surgical gowns) with no ears, hair, or mouths (concealed
by caps and masks), and large eyes (reverse magnification through
visual examination lenses).
... And then there are the banks of monitors and diagnostic
equipment so commonplace in the neo-natal unit, and so often
reported by abductees. You may be on to something here, Brent.
To carry this thought one step further, I wonder how many
abductees have undergone any prior hospital surgical procedures,
especially in early childhood. Perhaps some other listeners
possess the pertinent data.
BW> ... I was a "premie" myself... I did have recurrent dreams in
BW> my very early childhood that seem similar to those some report
BW> (in my case, little figures who carried me out of bed and up to
BW> "the attic") -- which I can best trace back to post-birth
BW> experiences.
Did those dreams stay with you consciously from childhood on, or
did something trigger your memory at a later date? Were you able
to correlate being taken out of bed and up to the attic with any
real event in the hospital?
BW> ... as a lifetime fan of science fiction, a follower of
BW> fortean stuff since about the age of 9 or 10, and a writer, I'm
BW> no doubt a "fantasy prone person" too. <g>
To the contrary Brent, being interested in such topics has no real
bearing on whether or not you are a fantasy prone personality.
FPP's are those persons who are predisposed to perceive
extraordinarily graphic and detailed illusions, and find it
difficult, if not impossible, to discern fact from fancy. There
are comprehensive examinations available such as the MMPI
(Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory), which, among other
personality attributes, helps to verify FPP. Additionally, Mark
Rodeghier and the J. Allen Hynek Center For UFO Studies in
Chicago, have developed proprietary tests of their own for
analyzing FPP.
Thanks for initiating discussion of this premature birth issue. It
seems worthy of further investigation.
Take care,
Sheldon
--
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Abduction dialogue
Date: 15 Jan 92 07:56:05 GMT
I have finally had time to sit down and read the messages for the last several
weeks. I find it all quite interesting, especially the material submitted by
Keith Basterfield. In your discussions of the possible origin of abductions,
however, you have not paid adequate attention to the physicality of the events.
Neither I nor Budd Hopkins have found a single abduction episode in which the
person was physically in place at the alleged time of the abduction. The Purdy
case I assume is uninvestigated and I am not aware of the surrounding
circumstances. Furthermore, we have scores of cases in which two or more
people are abducted at the same time. Also, we have scores of cases in which
one person sees another being abducted but is not abducted himself. The
abducted person confirms the event through investigation. We hve scores of
cases in which the missing abductee during the event is searched for by
friends and relations. Police have been called. Neighbors have been
solicited in search parties and so forth. We have many cases in which
neighbors have told abductees that strange lights were seen over their houses
the night of an abduction. I don't want to pile this on too thick, but the
important thing here is the abduction events that are not psychologically
generated. It seems to me that this is where research should be centered
on--not on the few cases tht might be internally generated. Those might be
very important, but the non-psychological cases are the crux of the matter.
As you probably know, I have come down squarely on the side of the
physicality of abductions. I want to be entirely forthcoming about that. I
certainly do not expect to convince to my position, but it is important to
understand the parameters of the abduction phenomenon so that we can be on the
same playing field. Incidentally, my views are outlined in my book which will
finally see the light of day around the last week of February or the first
week of March. It is called SECRET LIFE: FIRSTHAND ACCOUNTS OF UFO ABDUCTIONS
(subtitle by publisher) and will be published by Simon & Schuster. I expect
it to be a very controversial book.
Jim, I am not sure that I can help with your problem. When an abductee
says that they do not want to go through hypnosis, I respect their judgement.
That decision is the right one for them. Getting the person to write down
the remembrances is a good idea, but I have learned that a person's conscious
recollections are not always trustworthy, so be skeptical about the details of
any consciously recalled episode.
Finally, (it is late at night, I'm tired, and I'm rambling) it is important
to note that to the best of my knowledge, not a single abduction case has ever
been found to have been unequivocably caused by abuse, sexual, physical, or
emotional. Although there has been quite a lot of talk about this and it is
the first theing that therapists think when an abductee presents to him, I
think that there is far less here than meets the eye.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
--
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 15 Jan 92 19:55:00 GMT
> Hi Jim, there is a copy of the UFORA Australian abduction and missing
> time catalogue on its way to you by airmail-should be there in about 10
> days.
Thanks Keith! I look forward to receiving it.
> Re the question of objective/subjective. Eddie Bullard's massive review
> of abduction texts left him with the impression that the subjective
> elements of the abduction experience outwayed the objective elements. I
> think by this he was suggesting a psychological basis rather than a
> physical basis to the phenomenon. In the Dec 91 issue of the UK Journal
> "Fortean Times" Eddie is interviewed by Bob Rickard: page 49:-
> "FT: You have said-in Jerome Clark's UFO Encyclopedia-that you incline
> towards a psychological or psycho-social interpretation of these
> stories, but the physical evidnce in some of these case troubled you.
> Are you any nearer to resolving that dilemma?
And it is a dilemma. I can see where some would try to postulate something "in
between", such as Ring's (?) "imaginal" states.
> A classic Australian abduction is that of Maureen Puddy who whilst in
> the company of VUFORS UFO researchers Paul Norman and Judith Magee
> lasped unto unconsciousness in a car, and then reported being inside a
> round room, entity there etc. She never physically left their presence
> yet an abduction event occurred.
I had heard of this. Was this considered a "classic" abduction in other
respects?
> Question, if we and Eddie accept that some cases are psychological and
> yet these psyhcological caused ones tell exactly the same story as a
> "real" abduction, how do we tell them apart? How can you prove a real
> one was real? THis would be a good question to ask Eddie, which cases
> does he feel are psychological?
I think what is needed is to set parameters for testing of the "reality"
hypothesis, and stick to them, i.e., if a significant number of "real" cases
fail the test, we need to adopt "psychological" as the working hypothesis, and
go from there, perhaps even defining a new malady: Alien Abduction Syndrome, a
curious delusion that has many symptoms of reality. We can test this as well,
perhaps by injecting false reporting elements into the public information flow
and seeing if they show up in future cases. Sneaky? Sure, but it gets the job
done.
Jim
--
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Dialogue
Date: 17 Jan 92 00:38:03 GMT
In a message to All <15-Jan-92 00:56> David Jacobs wrote:
DJ> you have not paid adequate attention to the physicality of the
DJ> events. Neither I nor Budd Hopkins have found a single
DJ> abduction episode in which the person was physically in place
DJ> at the alleged time of the abduction.
Hi Dave...specifically which aspects of physicality are you
referring to? The reason I ask is that it is possible that some
countenances of the physical MAY be the result of psychological
mechanisms. Rashes and other dermal evidence? Perhaps. Radiation
anomalies? Definitely not.
I also find it very difficult to accept that you apparently believe
NONE of the abductees you and Budd have worked with COULD HAVE
remained in their immediate physical environment. What evidence do
you have that they were ALL corporeally plucked from their
surroundings?
DJ> we have scores of cases in which two or more people are
DJ> abducted at the same time.
Intriguing, but not conclusive... COULD be shared fantasy.
DJ> Also, we have scores of cases in which one person sees another
DJ> being abducted but is not abducted himself. The abducted person
DJ> confirms the event through investigation.
MUCH more interesting than the aforementioned scenario! But... has
there been an opportunity for abductee/witness association prior to
your investigation, or were they sequestered?
DJ> We have scores of cases in which the missing abductee during
DJ> the event is searched for by friends and relations.
What about the HUNDREDS of cases that have NO WITNESSES at all? Do
you and Budd not examine these? There is no way for us to know if
these individuals ever left physically since there were no
observers.
DJ> I don't want to pile this on too thick, but the important thing
DJ> here is the abduction events that are not psychologically
DJ> generated.
I agree Dave, but I'm not certain we're capable of conclusively
differentiating one from the other - at least not yet.
DJ> It seems to me that this is where research should be centered
DJ> on--not on the few cases that might be internally generated.
How can you be certain that only a few cases of abduction are
internally generated? The data some researchers are presenting
would tend to suggest otherwise -in fact - the inverse of the
proportions you state.
DJ> Those might be very important, but the non-psychological cases
DJ> are the crux of the matter.
We are in complete agreement here.
DJ> I certainly do not expect to convince to my position...
But PLEASE TRY Dave... If you can't convince those of us in this
forum who WANT to believe, how shall society ever be convinced of
the reality of the phenomenon?
DJ> I have learned that a person's conscious recollections are not
DJ> always trustworthy, so be skeptical about the details of any
DJ> consciously recalled episode.
I assume you are referring to the possibility of "screen memory"
here, but why should we be any less skeptical of the particulars
uncovered through hypnotic regression?
DJ> ...it is important to note that to the best of my knowledge,
DJ> not a single abduction case has ever been found to have been
DJ> unequivocably caused by abuse, sexual, physical, or emotional.
That may be true Dave, but if it were unequivocally proven that
abductions are caused by aliens, there would be no need for this
discussion.
Great to have you back!
-- Sheldon
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From: Brent.Wilcox@p5.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Brent Wilcox)
Subject: Premature Births
Date: 16 Jan 92 20:22:30 GMT
In a message to Brent Wilcox <15 Jan 92 16:05> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:
SW> Hmmm... and conceivably yielding latent images of beings in
SW> uniforms (surgical gowns) with no ears, hair, or mouths (concealed
SW> by caps and masks), and large eyes (reverse magnification through
SW> visual examination lenses).
"Large eyes" could be related to the fact that eyes are the first
thing a newborn is supposed to notice in the human face. I think
this has been commented on by others regarding descriptions of
aliens. That, and the related observation that we (as mammals) have
an instictive reaction to "big eyes" -- from children, puppies,
"Big-Eyed Children" Paintings <g>, Disney cartoons, and maybe ETs...
SW> ... And then there are the banks of monitors and diagnostic
SW> equipment so commonplace in the neo-natal unit, and so often
SW> reported by abductees. You may be on to something here, Brent.
SW> To carry this thought one step further, I wonder how many
SW> abductees have undergone any prior hospital surgical procedures,
SW> especially in early childhood. Perhaps some other listeners
SW> possess the pertinent data.
Even given this latent "programming", what triggers the "abduction
experience"? Stress? Hormonal flux? Are non-human entities using
this latent imagery as a cover for some other psychological
manipulation?
>BW> ... I was a "premie" myself... I did have recurrent dreams in
>BW> my very early childhood that seem similar to those some report
>BW> (in my case, little figures who carried me out of bed and up to
>BW> "the attic") -- which I can best trace back to post-birth
>BW> experiences.
SW> Did those dreams stay with you consciously from childhood on, or
SW> did something trigger your memory at a later date? Were you able
SW> to correlate being taken out of bed and up to the attic with any
SW> real event in the hospital?
I've always remembered those dreams consciously. But the connection
with my incubator experience is purely supposition on my part. I
suspect that experience may have had a considerable effect on me, but
again, this is supposition. I spent a lot of time in the hospital
as a small child, and it would be hard to separate one early
childhood memory of hospitalization from another. My earliest
memories -- if they exist -- would probably involve sound and touch,
since my mother says I didn't open my eyes until several weeks after
I came home from the hospital.
SW> To the contrary Brent, being interested in such topics has no real
SW> bearing on whether or not you are a fantasy prone personality.
SW> FPP's are those persons who are predisposed to perceive
SW> extraordinarily graphic and detailed illusions, and find it
SW> difficult, if not impossible, to discern fact from fancy.
In that case, I don't fit the category...
SW> Thanks for initiating discussion of this premature birth issue. It
SW> seems worthy of further investigation.
Happy I could toss in an interesting two cents...
--Brent
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From: Kay.Mclaughlin@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: Abductions
Date: 15 Jan 92 02:56:00 GMT
On 01-06-92 22:43 Keith Basterfield posted to Jim Speiser:
KB> A classic Australian abduction is that of Maureen Puddy who whilst in
KB> the company of VUFORS UFO researchers Paul Norman and Judith Magee
KB> lasped unto unconsciousness in a car, and then reported being inside a
KB> round room, entity there etc. She never physically left their presence
KB> yet an abduction event occurred.
Interesting thought occured to me while reading this,
If abtuctees are in fact having an OBE, then why/how do they report a
"physical" exam?
Regards,
Kay
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From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Abduction dialogue
Date: 16 Jan 92 15:56:03 GMT
In a message to All Users <15 Jan 92 00:56> David Jacobs wrote:
DJ> Jim, I am not sure that I can help with your problem. When
DJ> an abductee says that they do not want to go through hypnosis, I
DJ> respect their judgement. That decision is the right one for
DJ> them. Getting the person to write down the remembrances is a
DJ> good idea, but Ihave learned that a person's conscious
DJ> recollections are not always trustworthy, so be skeptical about
DJ> the details of any consciously recalled episode.
The problem, of course, is that I hear from every other quarter that
hypnotically-recalled memories are not to be trusted either. What's a mother
to do?
DJ> Finally, (it is late at night, I'm tired, and I'm rambling)
DJ> it is important to note that to the best of my knowledge, not a
DJ> single abduction case has ever been found to have been
DJ> unequivocably caused by abuse, sexual, physical, or emotional.
How would one go about proving such a thing "unequivocably"?
Good to see you back.
Jim
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Abductee list
Date: 18 Jan 92 07:21:52 GMT
Hello Keith. I would like to thank you for the listing of the possible
abduction cases that you have been working on. These are exactly the type of
raw reports that Budd Hopkins and I have been delving into. I was unaware
that you were so involved in actual investigation of these cases. Do you do
your own hypnosis or do you have a competent hypnotist with whom you work? In
evaluating the quality of these consciously remembered events, one must be
very careful not to take everything at face value--oftentimes consciously
remembered events are not as accurate as those recalled in a more controlled
and systematic recall environment. Also, one must be quite cautious about
disregarding cases as being internally generated because the consciously
remembered events do not fit with what is known about abductions (at least on
the surface) or because the person relating the events might have had an
unhappy childhood. In other words, be careful not to throw the baby out with
the bath water. I am hoping that when my book comes out it will help clear
up a lot of misconceptions about abductions and clarify what this phenomenon
is all about--knowing full well, of course, that I will probably be wrong
about most everything!
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Salem Therapist
Date: 18 Jan 92 07:32:34 GMT
I am not sure that I can help getting your therapist involved with abduction
research. If she were to get on a local TV show and say that she has an
interest in researching the subject (a newspaper story would also be effective)
she might be able to receive some clients that way. I have been doing a lot
of consulting with therapists around the country on the proper ways to do
hypnosis with abductees also how to proceed with therapy for them. The
subject is so unprecedented that the better therapists will take all the help
they can get. The weaker therapists think that they either know it all
already or can proceed with standard therapy based on their own nonabductee
experience. I have found that the weaker therapists can actually cause harm
when they thrash about not knowing what to do or say. Therefore, if the Salem
therapist wants to talk with me please tell her to give me a call. (Of course
I do not charge for any of my abduction work or consultations.)
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Abduction Digest, Number 42
Tuesday, January 21st 1992
Today's Topics:
Salem Therapist
Abduction Video
Recall
Abuse
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Salem Therapist
Date: 18 Jan 92 23:20:01 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <18-Jan-92 00:32>
David Jacobs wrote:
DJ> I am not sure that I can help getting your therapist involved
DJ> with abduction research. If she were to get on a local TV show
DJ> and say that she has an interest in researching the subject (a
DJ> newspaper story would also be effective) she might be able to
DJ> receive some clients that way.
Yes... that could supply prospective clients, but I'm afraid it
could also direct a substantial number of - shall we say -
"undesirables" to her office. I think she's interested in a more
screened approach, which I find understandable.
DJ> I have been doing a lot of consulting with therapists around
DJ> the country on the proper ways to do hypnosis with abductees
DJ> also how to proceed with therapy for them.
Do you mean to say that specific hypnotic technique and therapy
strategies are required for the competent handling of abductees,
differing from those normally employed by a skillful, experienced
psychotherapist? Do you not think it unwise to deviate from a more
widely accepted conventional approach, and generate case-specific
tactics? That in itself COULD yield inaccurate data.
DJ> The subject is so unprecedented that the better therapists will
DJ> take all the help they can get.
Not only will they take it, they are actively seeking it.
DJ> I have found that the weaker therapists can actually cause harm
DJ> when they thrash about not knowing what to do or say.
I agree... a therapist thrashing about, not knowing what to do or
say during a session, does not contribute to a good rapport. <g>
DJ> Therefore, if the Salem therapist wants to talk with me please
DJ> tell her to give me a call.
I shall... Can you post your office number?
DJ> (Of course I do not charge for any of my abduction work or
DJ> consultations.)
You are certainly the exception, not the rule. That is most
gracious of you. I think one of the major reasons abductees fail to
get proper counseling, is that they simply can't afford it. It's a
shame there are so few that share your philanthropic demeanor.
Take care,
Sheldon
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Video
Date: 19 Jan 92 13:54:02 GMT
I just picked up my copy of the new CUFOS video "Alien Abductions"
and must tell you, Mark Rodeghier was not hyperbolizing one bit
when he said it was good. Undersell would be more like it. It's
extremely well done and delineates the abduction phenomenon in an
objective, dispassionate manner. This enigmatic event is analyzed
in both physical and psychological terms, allowing the viewer to
contemplate the foundations and foibles of either possibility.
It contains an interesting amalgam of archival footage and
contemporary discussion with such notables as Bud Hopkins,
John Mack, Walter Webb, Eddie Bullard, Michael Swords, Betty Hill,
John Carpenter, Jerry Clark, George Eberhart, and, last but not
least, Mark Rodeghier. As the credits rolled by, I also noticed a
few "locals" such as Don Ecker, Jim Speiser, and Vicki Cooper. My
hat's off to all of you. A job well done!
The film runs a full 90 minutes, video/audio (stereo) quality is
superb, great graphics and titling, and there are NO commercial
interruptions, something I've found commonplace in tapes of this
genre. I don't mean to sound like an advertisement myself, but
the price is reasonable also. $23.00 (including postage and
handling).
It's currently available in VHS standard format, but copies will
be obtainable shortly in PAL, for those of you listening in
countries utilizing that standard.
This videotape is available from:
The Center for UFO Studies
2457 W Peterson Avenue
Chicago, IL 60659 312-271-3611
-- Sheldon
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Recall
Date: 20 Jan 92 06:33:12 GMT
Jim, I know that the conventional wisdom is that consciously recalled
material is supposedly more accurate than hypnotically recalled material.
But, with the abduction phenomenon, it is a bit more complicated. The events
that have transpired in an abduction are stored in an area of the mind that is
not accessible to normal recall except under circumstances of relaxed and
focused concentration. When this happens the subject finally remembers the
experiences for the first time, as it were, and allows the memories to pass
into an area of the mind where they are amenable to normal recall. After they
have been recalled for the first time, they can then be forgotten much the
same as other memories, traumatic and nontraumatic. This is not to say that
all hypnotically recalled memories are accurate--far from it. Confabulation
is an important complicating factor that many inexperienced investigators and
hypnotists have not fully recognized. It is rare that one does not have an
account with some confabulation in it. Much of this, I think, has to do with
memory storage and its relation to the already stored memories of normal life,
dreams, and so on. Furthermore, as my book will detail, there are specific
mental procedures that are administered on abductees during the event that
cause them to think that they have seen or experienced things when, in fact,
they have not. An experienced investigator who understands the intricacies of
the abduction phenomenon can sift through these "memories" and ascertain with
some degree of accuracy the actual flow of events.
Doing abduction research is quite difficult, and one of the most
difficult things to do is to sort through the testimony and decide what is
real and what is not real (obviously, I am making assumptions here). One
thing is sure though, consciously recalled material is certainly just as
suspect as material recalled with the aid of hypnosis. Actually, a good
example comes to mind; the piece that Budd Hopkins recently wrote for IUR, I
believe, talking about two women who consciously remembered seeing a six car
pile-up in the middle of an urban intersection very late at night.
Investigation revealed that there was no such accident and both women were
made to believe that they had seen it a short time before an abduction.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Abuse
Date: 20 Jan 92 07:05:29 GMT
Sorry Jim, in my previous message I forgot to address the problem of people
thinking that abductions are caused by abuse. Saying that sexual, physical,
and emotional abuse causes people to think that they have been abducted by
aliens is all the vogue these days in the therapeutic community. It seems to
make sense: The abuse is so traumatic that the person, usually child,
disassociates and buries the traumatic events under a more acceptable cover
memory. There are, of course, many problems with this theory. First of all,
the majority of abductees do not have a history of childhood abuse, but some
abductees do have abuse in their backgrounds. For these abductees, the abuse
has been dealt with in standard therapy and they have learned to come to terms
with it. Thus, they would have no psychological need to disassociate and
invent abduction tales. Furthermore, many abductions are are multiple.
People see others being abducted who will independentally confirm the events.
How this relates to abuse is difficult to imagine. In addition, parents
often come to me or to other researchers frantically worried about their
children who are describing classic abduction events happening to them.
They want me to try to alleviate the situation or help the child in some way
(incidentally, I do not work with children). Although it is possible, the
chances are against parents bringing their children in for counseling when
they are in the act of systematically, and brutally abusing them. Finally,
with all the talk of abuse and abductions, I have heard of no instances in
which abduction cases have been shown to be the result of abuse. The problem
is that talk is cheap. All someone has to do is simply claim that an
abduction was caused by childhood abuse. Saying it makes it so. What I am
saying is that there is no evidence to suggest that this is the case.
There are many other reasons militating against the facile theory of
abuse generating abductions, but I can't go into all of them. Suffice it to
say, the abuse theory is, I believe, untenable.
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Abduction Digest, Number 43
Friday, January 24th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Recall-Abuse
Abduction research
Abduction Video
Recall
Abduction Research
Abduction research
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Recall-Abuse
Date: 22 Jan 92 05:02:03 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <19-Jan-92 23:33>
David Jacobs wrote:
DJ> But, with the abduction phenomenon, it is a bit more
DJ> complicated. The events that have transpired in an abduction
DJ> are stored in an area of the mind that is not accessible to
DJ> normal recall except under circumstances of relaxed and focused
DJ> concentration.
Hi Dave, when you use the term 'mind' here, are you referring to a
specific physical region of the brain... and if so, what structures
are involved? Or, are you alluding to something more akin to
compartmentalized memory?
DJ> When this happens the subject finally remembers the
DJ> experiences for the first time, as it were, and allows the
DJ> memories to pass into an area of the mind where they are
DJ> amenable to normal recall.
Which area of the 'mind' do the memories pass into to make them
retrievable?
DJ> Doing abduction research is quite difficult, and one of the
DJ> most difficult things to do is to sort through the testimony
DJ> and decide what is real and what is not real (obviously, I am
DJ> making assumptions here).
Perhaps, but a most valid assumption! Isn't attempting to discern
reality from misinterpretation the whole crux of the matter here -
not only in abductions, but in ufology in toto?
DJ> One thing is sure though, consciously recalled material is
DJ> certainly just as suspect as material recalled with the aid of
DJ> hypnosis.
MAYBE even more so. *IF* a screen memory actually has been
implanted by someone (or something), it seems logical that the
screen is what the individual will consciously recall.
DJ> First of all, the majority of abductees do not have a history
DJ> of childhood abuse, but some abductees do have abuse in their
DJ> backgrounds.
Obviously some do, but is it a statistically significant number? Of
your cases investigated, what percentage have you found to contain
a history of abuse, and what psychological evaluation techniques
were utilized to spot this abuse?
DJ> For these abductees, the abuse has been dealt with in standard
DJ> therapy and they have learned to come to terms with it. Thus,
DJ> they would have no psychological need to disassociate and
DJ> invent abduction tales.
Is it not possible that some of your subjects *HAVE* suffered
abuse, but have not yet dealt with it in conventional therapy?
DJ> Furthermore, many abductions are multiple. People see
DJ> others being abducted who will independentally confirm the
DJ> events. How this relates to abuse is difficult to imagine.
I agree Dave, these would be the most difficult to explain through
psychological models.
DJ> Although it is possible, the chances are against parents
DJ> bringing their children in for counseling when they are in the
DJ> act of systematically, and brutally abusing them.
Seems logical... although I can also envision that as being the
'perfect cover' for the abusive parent. Who would suspect a parent
who was concerned enough to bring their child in for therapy?
Children will tell very little to the therapist when under the
threat of abuse.
DJ> All someone has to do is simply claim that an abduction was
DJ> caused by childhood abuse. Saying it makes it so. What I am
DJ> saying is that there is no evidence to suggest that this is the
DJ> case.
Please let me clarify something about my views in this Dave. All I
can say at this point is that I have noticed what appears to be a
statistically significant number of individuals that claim
abduction, to have also experienced moderate to severe physical,
sexual, or emotional abuse at some point in their past. I am not
stating that abduction is CAUSED by abuse, merely that there
appears to be a correlation in SOME cases.
Finally, I received your letter today re: the topic I had written
to you about in December. Would it be OK with you to discuss that
issue in this forum?
Take care,
Sheldon
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From: Bill.Chalker.UFORA.Associate.NSW@f8.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 19 Jan 92 18:05:00 GMT
David, Welcome back to this folder. I am especially pleased
to have the opportunity of communicating with you in a more
direct fashion.
You may recollect that corridor "debate" Jenny Randles & I
had with you and an associate back at the Washington MUFON
conference in 1987.
I was please to have had the opportunity to meet you
directly albeit within the the constraints of a busy
conference.
I've been looking into abductions in Australia since the mid
70s. The Journal of UFO Studies recently in a review by
Keith Basterfield, the Godics & Mark Rodeghier highlighted
that "I presented the first comprehensive discussion of
Australian abductions" but dates the reference to 1984. That
was a later appearance of a paper that was first aired at an
Australian UFO conference in October 1979. It was published
in the MUFON Journal in August, 1980.
Previously to this I had presented a paper "Beyond the CE3
Down Under: Notes on the Apparent Absence of Contact, Time
Lapse and Abduction Cases in Australia", at an Australian
UFO conference in November, 1977.
These 2 papers summarised the early phase of my research in
Australia abduction experiences.
Although a number of cases were being looked at, concerns
about the use of hypnotic techniques and other considerations
of witness welfare and ethics delayed a more intensive
examination of this aspect of the UFO controversy. Also
cases until the late 80s were few and far between at least
for Australia. With Dick Haines 3 stage technique and study
protocol I at last felt that there were procedures that
could be used that allayed my concerns about abduction
research methodology.
I then spent sometime evaluating a suitable professional
person to help me. I was not going to get involved in doing
regressions myself. Since 1988 I have been working with a
very qualified clinical hypnotherapist/clinical psychologist
on a long term informal research programme. I have also
carried out seperate personal research and have worked
closely with others , in particular the UFORA network,
specifically Keith BAsterfield and Vladimir & Pony Godic.
Now after having been involved with more than 30 cases I am
still undecided as to whether abduction type cases tell us
more more about ourselves or UFOs. A bit of both I think.
My research has not confirmed the strong patterns you and
Budd have come across, but there are individual cases that
have some of these elements.
Some of my research has been covered in the review articles
by Keith Basterfield and the Godics in IUR (July/August,
1989 & May/June, 1990) as well as by Mark Moravec, ACUFOS
Bulletin, March, 1990.
Seperately I have had published articles in Australian
Penthouse, November, 1989 ("Abducted?" - a general review,
which also lists 6 Australian cases) and Nature & Health,
Autumn, 1990 ("Alien Abductions - a shamanic perspective on
UFOs"). The latter articles expands on the shaman theme
that I raised in my Washington conversation with you. I
still feel that until the similarities that occur between
UFO abduction and shamanic initiations etc, are reconciled
and satisfactorally explained we will be left with an
incomplete picture of the abduction question.
I look forward to ongoing research dialogue, Regards from
Bill Chalker
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From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Abduction Video
Date: 22 Jan 92 06:17:44 GMT
In a message to All <19 Jan 92 06:54> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:
SW> least, Mark Rodeghier. As the credits rolled by, I also noticed a
SW> few "locals" such as Don Ecker, Jim Speiser, and Vicki Cooper. My
SW> hat's off to all of you. A job well done!
Aw, jeez, now I guess I'll HAVE to buy one...<grin>
Jim
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From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Recall
Date: 22 Jan 92 06:38:44 GMT
Dave:
Thanks for your thoughts. And I'm glad you're back and that things are
starting to cook around here.
Jim
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 24 Jan 92 02:56:01 GMT
In a message to David Jacobs <19-Jan-92 11:05>
Bill Chalker wrote:
BC> With Dick Haines 3 stage technique and study protocol I at last
BC> felt that there were procedures that could be used that allayed
BC> my concerns about abduction research methodology. I then spent
BC> sometime evaluating a suitable professional person to help me.
Bill, what were your principal criteria in evaluating and
ultimately selecting your associate hypnotherapist/psychologist?
BC> Now after having been involved with more than 30 cases I am
BC> still undecided as to whether abduction type cases tell us more
BC> more about ourselves or UFOs. A bit of both I think.
Thus far, I would have to say it's ourselves. But as everyone in
this forum is aware, there are many cases that just cannot be
explained away though psychological methods.
BC> I still feel that until the similarities that occur between UFO
BC> abduction and shamanic initiations etc, are reconciled and
BC> satisfactorily explained we will be left with an incomplete
BC> picture of the abduction question.
Could you elaborate a bit on this area Bill?
Take care,
-- Sheldon
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From: Brent.Wilcox@p5.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Brent Wilcox)
Subject: Abduction research
Date: 23 Jan 92 21:04:50 GMT
In a message to David Jacobs <19 Jan 92 11:05> Bill Chalker wrote:
BC> Autumn, 1990 ("Alien Abductions - a shamanic perspective on
BC> UFOs"). The latter articles expands on the shaman theme that I
BC> raised in my Washington conversation with you. I still feel that
BC> until the similarities that occur between UFO abduction and
BC> shamanic initiations etc, are reconciled and satisfactorally
BC> explained we will be left with an
BC> incomplete picture of the abduction question.
Bill --
Where can I find a copy of the Shamanic/Abduction article? I'll
gladly send an envelope and ISCs... I didn't know any work had been
done along those lines, but it's a relationship I've been toying with
myself for a couple years, informally, and I'd be fascinated to see
what you've written about it.
Thanks.
-- Brent
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Abduction Digest, Number 44
Monday, January 27th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Hypnosis
Hello
Re: If Ufo's
Re: abductions
Re: abductions
hypnosis
Thanks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Hypnosis
Date: 25 Jan 92 05:57:20 GMT
When I speak of training hypnotists and hypnotherapists in how to do
hypnosis, I mean in the specific hypnosis of abductees. There is nothing very
mysterious about the technique of doing hypnosis--it is so simple that
virtually anyone can do it with a few minutes of study. The most important
element is whether the subject allows himself to be hypnotized. I do not think
that I can hypnotize a person who does not want to be hypnotized. But once a
"trance" has been induced, then what? For hypnotherapists engaged in standard
therapy there are recognized procedures to be followed, suggestions to be
made, and pathways to be travelled.
These procedures have been taught to the therapist by a trainer or by books,
and they are the product of an established body of thought that has been
developed over the years.
The abduction phenomenon is so new that procedures are only now being
established. Very few people have systematically paid attention to the manner
in which questions should be asked of abductees. Much of this depends on the
amount of knowledge that the investigator has about abductions. Asking the
right questions in the right way at the right time with the right inflection
and with knowledge behind the question is not easy. Furthermore, recognizing
confabulation, false memories, dream material, and skips in an abductee's
testimony only comes about with a thorough knowledge of the intricacies of
the abduction phenomenon. Needless to say therapists have absolutely no idea
what they are doing when they begin hypnotizing abductees. This can be a
tricky situation for the abductee. Often an abductee goes to a hypnotist to
find out what is going on with him, and the hypnotist, not knowledgeable in
abductions, is not only unable to bring him insight into his situation, but
unknowingly can even allow false memories and confabulation to appear to be
reality to the abductee. This, of course, does the abductee a disservice, and
can even be psychologically harmful. Therefore my consulting consists of
telling therapists what the abduction phenomenon is all about, what to expect
in a hypnotic session, how to break through resistance and blocks, when to
therapeutically intervene in the middle of a session, and so forth. They are
perfectly free to use the formal structure of hypnosis that they have used
before, but it must be remembered that the abduction phenomenon is very
different than anything that therapists have ever encountered and they must
"retool" somewhat if they are going to be helpful.
My office phone number in Philadelphia is (215)836-5997.
I will be happy to talk to the Salem therapist if she calls me.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Hello
Date: 25 Jan 92 06:13:58 GMT
Hello Bill, I am glad to see that you are still invovled in thinking about
the abduction phenomenon. I do remember the conversation that we had at the
MUFON conference in 1987 with Jenny and with David Chernikoff. I do not know
if my book will be sent to Australia, but if you get a chance to read it, I
would be very interested in your comments. From what Keith has been saying
the abduction phenomenon appears to be exactly the same in Australia as it is
the United States. I believe, however, that we have made more headway in
investigation and research. I think that when all is said and done, the
world-wide dimensions of abductions will be firmly established. In the United
States, more and more UFO researchers are recognizing the enormous magnitude
of the phenomenon and it is my belief that eventually all of UFO research will
be abduction research. In fact, I believe that I made this point in a paper
at the 1987 conference. No other area of UFO research allows us to study the
intentions of the beings behind the objects. Without the abduction phenomenon
we are back to square one--studying reports of sightings of the outside shells
of objects, their effect upon the environment, and the witnesses who make the
reports. I do not think that we can go back to that. We know a tremendous
amount about UFO sightings and we have for a very long time. In a sense we had
gone about as far as we could go with sightings. The abduction phenomenon
gives us entree into the purposes and motivations behind the sightings. It
is the breakthrough, I think, that we have been all waiting for.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: If Ufo's
Date: 26 Jan 92 02:16:00 GMT
>We must keep in touch and share thoughts and
>experiences, in my opinion, and we must not ridicule those who think
>they have seem something truly unexplainable.
Good plan...
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 26 Jan 92 02:18:00 GMT
>Having said all of this can we PLEASE get back on the abduction issue?
>If you have problems with this, take it up with your sysop and allow
>him/her to discuss it in our sysop area.
No problems with that. I am still looking for good research material
on the subject...
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 26 Jan 92 02:22:00 GMT
>I will be very interested, amazed, and willing to listen if Mensa
>members can *produce* evidence to support their religious claims.
>
Quite a bit can be produced - but the area host has made a request to
get back to the subject at hand and I agree with him... that thread got
way out of hand. If you wish more info on the religious claims, please
log on my BBS - we have a religion board etc.
{Sue}
{Cheese Whiz Wildcat! BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400}
P.S. and I would like to see evidence on the subject of abductions...
do you have any to share?
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: hypnosis
Date: 27 Jan 92 00:16:02 GMT
Hello David,
Thanks for your recent post re: hypnosis and the abductee. I do
have some questions/comments which will have to wait a bit due to
tight time constraints today.
Your offer to speak with my friend in Salem is most accommodating.
Her address/phone is:
Dr. Michele Lecher
c/o Salem Clinic, P.C.
2020 Capitol Street, N.E.
Salem, OR 97303 Tel: 503-375-7500
I shall forward your # to her so she may contact you.
Thanks again,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Thanks
Date: 27 Jan 92 03:36:38 GMT
Keith:
Am in receipt of the materials and thanks. I especially enjoyed the interview
with Eddie Bullard. It is to no small degree because of Eddie's continued
involvement in, progress on, and ultimate bewilderment at the abduction
phenomenon that I continue to be intrigued by it myself. I figger if a dude
that smart says its a puzzlement, then by golly it durn well be a puzzlement.
And I do get the impression from the interview that he is very bothered by it.
While he says *some* of it has to be psychological, he has no explanation for
the cases that seem real. Certainly he seems to have all but abandoned
folkloric transmission.
Please keep up the good work on Abductions Down Under, and thanks again!
Jim
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Abduction Digest, Number 45
Wednesday, January 29th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Apology
Abduction Report
Apology
Abduction Research
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Apology
Date: 28 Jan 92 04:50:02 GMT
David,
This came as a great shock to me, but apparently the echo
coordinator, Doug Rogers, and others on this network, believe that
I have been "attacking" you with my line of questions and comments
regarding your recent posts. Nothing could be further from the
truth. I have the utmost respect and admiration for your work, and
am most appreciative of your participation in this network. When I
see something that doesn't quite ring true with me, I ask questions
and make comments based on my limited experience from my dilettante
perspective.
If I have offended you, I sincerely apologize, and I can assure you
that no hostile assault was intended. I know I can learn a great
deal from you, and perhaps make some small contribution to
abduction analysis. The pursuit of truth and knowledge has been my
objective, yet Doug seems to feel I have been attacking the way you
administer to your patients and do your research.
What follows is extracted from Doug Rogers' statement regarding my
correspondence with you. Once again David, I must offer my defense
of complete obliviousness to the fact that I was acting in an
ostensibly inappropriate manner.
I hope we can carry on with our dialogue.
Sincerely, Sheldon
-------------------------------------------------------------------
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <21-Jan-92 20:14>
Doug Rogers wrote:
DR> The crux of my complaint to you has to do with your persistance
DR> in voicing your unsuported opinions in areas where you have no
DR> expertise, especially in the face of those who have proven to
DR> have expertise. I'm especially talking at this point about your
DR> posts to Dr. Jacobs. I am a practicing counselor in addition to
DR> being a professor of mass communications. Let me assure you,
DR> Dr. Jacobs is posting a rock solid, defensible line in this
DR> work. He has too great a reputation to do otherwise. Yet, you
DR> take up bandwidth asking him questions that attack the way he
DR> treats his patients and does his research.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Report
Date: 28 Jan 92 04:50:03 GMT
Hello Keith,
I wanted to advise you that I am having a woman from the Chicago
area write to you re: her abduction experience. Coincidentally, she
has also spent some time in Australia a few years back.
If you like, I can forward your response to her via this network,
as she has no objection to our discussing her case in this forum.
I trust you will find her material of interest.
Take care,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Apology
Date: 29 Jan 92 07:41:00 GMT
> In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <21-Jan-92 20:14>
> Doug Rogers wrote:
>
> DR> The crux of my complaint to you has to do with your
> DR> persistance in voicing your unsuported opinions in areas
> DR> where you have no
> DR> expertise, especially in the face of those who have proven
> DR> to have expertise. I'm especially talking at this point
> DR> about your
> DR> posts to Dr. Jacobs. I am a practicing counselor in addition
> DR> to being a professor of mass communications. Let me
> DR> assure you,
> DR> Dr. Jacobs is posting a rock solid, defensible line in this
> DR> work. He has too great a reputation to do otherwise. Yet,
> DR> you take up bandwidth asking him questions that attack
> DR> the way he
> DR> treats his patients and does his research.
Sheldon:
I thought that your points were well taken, expressing
legitimate concern about something Dr. Jacobs will surely be
expected to explain once he starts "making the circuit" upon the
release of his new book. I found nothing hostile about your
questions.
There is a distasteful odor of "believerism" around
when people are discouraged from having the chutzpah to question
the "Authorities" in this field about their methodologies.
I am similarly disturbed about the outrage expressed
in _UFO_ magazine over Jerry Clark's treatment of Jaques Vallee.
I found "The Sage of Canby" to be much more restrained in his
recent article than he was in his earlier critique of
_Confrontations_. Even *if* those two guys hate each other,
their debate is an important one for the rest of us who share an
interest in these topics. If some of us want to take sides,
fine. Trying to squelch the opposition is another matter.
-- John
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill.Chalker.UFORA.Associate.NSW@f8.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 26 Jan 92 19:26:00 GMT
Sheldon, Here are some comments re your message:
> Bill, what were your principal criteria in evaluating
> and ultimately selecting your associate
> hypnotherapist/psychologist?
1. professional & qualified psychologist
2. extensive experience in practical therapuetic use in
hypnosis
3. no strong opinions either way on the UFO subject.
4. open mind
5. a willingness to use Richard Haines 3 stage technique and
protocol as a guide
I was fortunate to find the one I did. The psychologist is
also on the board that registers professional psychologists
in my state, so she is well regarded by peers.
> Thus far, I would have to say it's ourselves. But as
> everyone in
> this forum is aware, there are many cases that just
> cannot be > explained away though psychological methods.
Yes I agree. This is why I am open as to the explanations
and am very keen to learn of the work of others.
> BC> I still feel that until the similarities that occur between
> UFOBC> abduction and shamanic initiations etc, are
> reconciled and
> BC> satisfactorily explained we will be left with an incomplete
> BC> picture of the abduction question.
>
> Could you elaborate a bit on this area Bill?
Yes I will, however it will have to be next time as I have
run out of time in my polling window. Stay tuned.
Regards, Bill.
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Abduction Digest, Number 46
Monday, February 3rd 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Abduction Research
Apology
Criticisms
Abductions
Abduction case
FPP
Apology
Apology
Re: abductions
Re: Criticisms
Criticisms
Apology
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 30 Jan 92 02:39:02 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <26-Jan-92 12:26>
Bill Chalker wrote:
BC> 1. professional & qualified psychologist
BC> 2. extensive experience in practical therapuetic use in
BC> hypnosis
BC> 3. no strong opinions either way on the UFO subject.
BC> 4. open mind
BC> 5. a willingness to use Richard Haines 3 stage technique and
BC> protocol as a guide
Wonderful criteria Bill. I agree that it is especially important
that the therapist have no definite pro or con proclivity, but
after years of investigations, how does one maintain their
impartial stance?
In my opinion, therapists who focus *solely* on the abduction
question are, in some instances, doing their patients a potential
injustice. Edith Fiore, Ph.D. is a case in point. She has always
specialized in a strict paranormal approach, moving from the vogue
of past life regressions in the '70s to the abduction scenarios of
the '90s. It is important, and difficult, to preserve a measure of
detachment from the issue at hand.
Take care,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Apology
Date: 30 Jan 92 02:40:03 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <29-Jan-92 00:41>
John Burke wrote:
JB> I thought that your points were well taken, expressing
JB> legitimate concern about something Dr. Jacobs will surely be
JB> expected to explain once he starts "making the circuit" upon
JB> the release of his new book. I found nothing hostile about your
JB> questions.
JB> If some of us want to take sides, fine. Trying to
JB> squelch the opposition is another matter.
John, your reassuring comments mean a great deal to me. Thanks for
responding.
Take care,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Criticisms
Date: 31 Jan 92 07:19:57 GMT
Although the last thing that I wanted to do was to provoke a dispute among
the Paranet respondents, I think that the very nature of the material creates
strong feelings pro and con. Sheldon, I did not think that you were attacking
me. I have become accostumed to heavy-hitting attacks from all quarters. This
is not to say that I can satisfactorily answer them all, but in this field the
attack is the norm and I did not
feel as though you were doing anything other than expressing surprise. Doug,
I would like to thank you for mounting a defense. Budd Hopkins and I feel quite
embattled these days. There are only a few of us who take the position that
we do and therefore we are pretty much fair game for any and all. As you know
it is complex enough to defend the UFO phenomenon in general against attacks,
let alone having to defend the abduction phenomenon, which is as "far out" as
one can get these days. Our position that the abductees are describing an
external, objective reality and are therefore victims is one that virtually
everyone can find weaknesses in. Just the problems involved with hypnosis are
enough to put the stopper on believability. Once you get past hypnosis then
you rapidly become involved with the extremes of the bizarre. Therefore any
defense that comes my way I gratefully accept.
When my book comes out next month I fully expect to be pretty much savaged
by almost everyone. In spite of this, I feel that I, and Budd, and John Mack
at Harvard, and John Carpenter in St. Louis, and others who share a common
opinion will, in the end, prove to be correct.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 31 Jan 92 03:09:00 GMT
David, Thank you very much for the warm welcome and your comments
about Australian abduction research. Abduction research is certainly
an area fraught with dangers for the young players.
As you say there are cases where abductions are recalled without the
use of hypnosis. Locally there are most definitely instances of
physicality. In the "Carol Williams" event where she recalled an event
at age 15 which occurred in a shared bedroom, her bedroom companion,
another woman was certainly able to confirm the initial stages of the
event. In "Susan"'s case, I managed to locate her sister who confirmed
the observation of a ball of light floating into the bedroom, which
Susan says was ahead of the abduction party. In "Julian"s case both he
and his wife have conscious recall of apparent abduction events.
The Maureen Puddy 1972/73 case was investigated in depth by two lots
of Australian researchers. Firstly by Garry Little and Bill Stapleton
and secondly by Paul Norman and Judith Magee. Magee wrote up the case
in the English "Flying Saucer Review" Vol 18 no 6 Nov/Dec 1972 and FSR
Vol 24 no 3 Nov 1978. It is referenced as case 209 in Bullard's
"Measure of a Mystery."
On one occasion in an involved sequence of sightings, Puddy was in a
car with Norman and Magee, lapsed into a "trance" and whilst
physically still present with them, started to relate being inside a
round room, entity there, etc. She became frightened and came out of
the "trance." She stated she could not recall what had happened whilst
she was "unconscious." It bears all the hallmarks of an apparent
abduction but the woman was at all times firmly physically in the
preence of two top Australian ufo researchers.
I believe Jenny Randles referred to a UK abduction case involving
gaynor Sunderland where an abduction was reported whilst the young
girl was seen to be sleeping in her bed, by her mother.
Locally, I believe we have yet to have an abduction reported where
independent witnesses see the abduction occurring or where someone is
definitely seen to be physically absent during the event. However,
bear in mind when I collated a catalogue of Australian abductions in
April 1991 we had only uncovered 43 such events. I notice Bill said he
had come across some 30 cases.
Anyway, a pleasure chatting to you and others, and I trust we will
have many more enjoyable and informative chats.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abduction case
Date: 31 Jan 92 04:48:00 GMT
I shall wait with interest to hear from the person concerned. Thanks.
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: FPP
Date: 31 Jan 92 05:26:00 GMT
John H Chalmers recently asked me for a reading list from mainstream
psych journals. It may be of interest to others.
1. Wilson, S.C. & Barber, T.X. (1981). Vivid Fantasy and
Hallucinatory Abilities in the Life Histories of Excellent Hypnotic
Subjects, in Klinger, E. (ed). Imagery: Vol 2. New York. Plenum. 2.
Wilson, S.C. & Barber, T.X. (1982). The Fantasy-Prone Personality:
Implications for Understanding Imagery, Hypnosis and
Parapsychological Phenomena. PSI Research 1(3):94-116. 3. Wilson,
S.C. & Barber, T.X. (1983). The Fantasy-Prone
Personality:Implications for Understanding Imagery, Hypnosis and
Parasychological Phenomena. Chapter 12 in Sheitch, A. (ed).
Imagery:Current Theory, Research and Applications. New York. Wiley.
4. Myers, S.A. & Austrin, H. R. (1985). Distal Eidetic
Technology:Further Characteristics of the Fantasy-Prone Personality.
Journal of Mental Imagery 9(3):57-66. 5. Lynn, S. J. & Rhue, J. W.
(1986). The Fantasy-Prone Person:Hypnosis, Imagination and
Creativity. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology
51(2):404-408. 6. Richardson, A. (1986). A Follow-up of Nine
Typographic Eidetikers. Psychologia:An International Journal of
Psychology in the Orient 29(3):165-175. 7. Rhue, J. W. & Lynn, S.J.
(1987). Fantasy-Proneness:Developmental Antecedents. Journal of
Personality 55(1): 121-137. 8. Lynn, S.J. & Rhue, J. W. (1988).
Fantasy-Proneness. American Psychologist 43(1):35-44. 9. Rhue, J. W.
& Lynn, S.J. (1989). Fantasy-Proness, Hypnotizability and Absorption:
A Re-examination. International Journal of Clinical and Experimental
Hypnosis 37(2):100-106. 10 Fellows, B. & Wright, V. (1989).
Fantasy-Proneness: Data and Observations on the British Use of the
Inventory of Childhood memories and Imaginings. British Journal of
Experimental and clinical Hypnosis 6(1):57-59.
Unfortunately I find that many UFO researchers have failed to read some of
the above material before relegating the FPP hypothesis as a potential
explanation for some abduction cases to the trash can. In abductions
there is a thread of "alien babies" being removed from pregnant
women. Barber and Wilson relate how two of their FPP hypnotic
subjects fully believed they were pregnant and went for abortions
only to find no evidence of pregnancy. If these women had been
investigated by UFO researchers and not by psychologists chances are
the "missing baby" file would have had two more cases logged. Very few
people are aware of this research, and these findings cannot be
overstated. You can have amazing facts without necessarily
introducing alien intervention.
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Apology
Date: 29 Jan 92 07:41:00 GMT
> In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <21-Jan-92 20:14>
> Doug Rogers wrote:
>
> DR> The crux of my complaint to you has to do with your
> DR> persistance in voicing your unsuported opinions in areas
> DR> where you have no
> DR> expertise, especially in the face of those who have proven
> DR> to have expertise. I'm especially talking at this point
> DR> about your
> DR> posts to Dr. Jacobs. I am a practicing counselor in addition
> DR> to being a professor of mass communications. Let me
> DR> assure you,
> DR> Dr. Jacobs is posting a rock solid, defensible line in this
> DR> work. He has too great a reputation to do otherwise. Yet,
> DR> you take up bandwidth asking him questions that attack
> DR> the way he
> DR> treats his patients and does his research.
Sheldon:
I thought that your points were well taken, expressing legitimate
concern about something Dr. Jacobs will surely be expected to explain once he
starts "making the circuit" upon the release of his new book. I found nothing
hostile about your questions.
There is a distasteful odor of "believerism" around when people are
discouraged from having the chutzpah to question the "Authorities" in this
field about their methodologies.
I am similarly disturbed about the outrage expressed in _UFO_
magazine over Jerry Clark's treatment of Jaques Vallee. I found "The Sage of
Canby" to be much more restrained in his recent article than he was in his
earlier critique of _Confrontations_. Even *if* those two guys hate each
other, their debate is an important one for the rest of us who share an
interest in these topics. If some of us want to take sides, fine. Trying to
squelch the opposition is another matter.
-- John
--
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Apology
Date: 31 Jan 92 05:51:00 GMT
I would like to say that I have found Sheldon's observations, comments and
questions of great value in all areas of Paranet. This is not an
arena for "believers" but an open forum for discussion, debate,
disagreement and sharing of information. This is why I have been only
too willing to spend time sharing my Australian findings with all.
I'm happy to be corrected, debated, queried etc. If I can't discuss
it with people who have some knowledge on the subject, and practice
my thoughts and arguments here, then I will fail to convince and
interest health professionals and media people that they should take
abduction research seriously. Let's move on, and continue to discuss
research, theories etc and question everything and everyone (be they
THE EXPERT or not-we can all contribute.) Enough said, back to
research.
--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Danny.Brandenburg@p1.f0.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Danny Brandenburg)
Subject: Re: abductions
Date: 31 Jan 92 01:56:10 GMT
>Quite a bit can be produced - but the area host has made a request to go
>back to the to subject at hand and I agree with him... that thread got
I Agreed! There are other places to discuss that matter. I too have a
a Wildcat! board with a large religious discussion area. You too, of course,
are more than welcome to call and join in conversation.
>P.S. and I would like to see evidence on the subject of abductions...
>do you have any to share?
Actually, I do not have any evidence to share on abductions. I must
admit, I remain skeptical on the entire area of UFO abductions. The hardest
evidence I can find is that which has been gathered through hypnosis. First
we must prove hypnosis before it can be reguarded as good evidence. Also,
through hypnosis, people can EASILY be given suggestions on what they either
could or should have seen.
There is no doubt in my mind that in most, in most abduction claims, the
person abducted truly believes that they were abducted. However, belief and
reality are to different things. Perhaps abductions are a reality but I
need to find stronger evidence than what has been presented thus far to be
convinced.
--
Danny Brandenburg - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Rogers)
Subject: Re: Criticisms
Date: 2 Feb 92 21:25:02 GMT
> feel as though you were doing anything other than expressing
> surprise. Doug, I would like to thank you for mounting
> a defense. Budd Hopkins and I feel quite embattled these
> days. There are only a few of us who take the position
You are most welcome, David.
I'm just doing my job. It doesn't matter what the echo coordinator posts, it's
always wrong from someone's point of view. As the moderator of this area, I'm
sure you are finding that out.
My comments were not intended to be public... that is why I sent them to
Sheldon privately. Since he chose to make them public, all I can do is thank
you for the appreciation. I, like you, get da*ned little of it, and any scaps
are sincerely accepted.
--
Doug Rogers - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Criticisms
Date: 3 Feb 92 00:12:01 GMT
Hello David,
It was most heartening to learn that apparently no one other than
Doug felt I was attacking you. Your kind words of understanding
were deeply appreciated.
In this unconventional discipline called ufology, we must all
endeavor to remain unprejudiced in our convictions, and responsive
to theory modification when warranted by variations in observed
data.
I strive to maintain a fairly detached perspective in the abduction
arena, which becomes increasingly difficult as more and more
statistics become available. This is an unavoidable effect, and I
am certain you find yourself being similarly influenced.
At present, I think we can all recognize that the abduction
phenomenon is an extremely complex issue, and that NOT ALL cases
can be resolved through known psychological archetypes. This latter
category seems diminutive, but no less portentous, than cases that
do SEEM explicable though more mundane means. Whatever is happening
to these individuals, seems to be occurring on at least two levels.
Physical trace cases, and those with corroborative witnesses, are
certainly intriguing, and those most likely to illustrate an
external event. For example, the recent incident Budd has been
involved with concerning two New York police officers who witnessed
an individual being "beamed" aboard a craft. A shared fantasy
between abductee and two credible witnesses seems highly unlikely.
I find that many of the foremost researchers seem to be searching
for the consummate, end-all-doubt abduction case. As a result, many
casualties of less extraordinary seizures, are going without
investigation and therapy, simply because their cases are less
interesting. This is a most unfortunate situation, as some of these
people are desperately in need of counseling. Lamentably, you just
cannot get quality professional care in this country without
insurance or a wheelbarrow full of cash.
As Keith Basterfield stated in a recent message... "let's move on,
and continue to discuss research, theories, etc. and question
*everything* and *everyone* (be they THE EXPERT or not - we can all
contribute.)
Thanks Dave,
Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Apology
Date: 3 Feb 92 00:13:02 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <30-Jan-92 22:51>
Keith Basterfield wrote:
KB> I would like to say that I have found Sheldon's observations,
KB> comments and questions of great value in all areas of Paranet.
You are too kind Keith. Those words of praise from a seasoned
veteran such as yourself to a neophyte like me are certainly an
aggrandizement of my abilities and knowledge.
KB> This is not an arena for "believers" but an open forum for
KB> discussion, debate, disagreement and sharing of information.
That was also my conception of the philosophy behind ParaNet.
KB> Let's move on, and continue to discuss research, theories
KB> etc and question everything and everyone (be they THE EXPERT or
KB> not-we can all contribute.) Enough said, back to research.
I agree Keith, internal bickering will only succeed in ravaging
what little credibility we have all worked so diligently to
ensconce in this field. Let us now return to our regularly
scheduled program.
Thanks for your post on the "Age" newspaper... encouraging to
learn it is a respectable publication rather than a tabloid.
Also, we can discuss the Chicago case when you receive the
information.
Take care,
Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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********************************************************************************
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Abduction Digest, Number 47
Tuesday, February 11th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Abductions
Answers
Answers continued
Abductions
Re: Premature Births
Breakdown
Abductions
Your Wildcat!
Abduction Research
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.PARANET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 3 Feb 92 07:34:52 GMT
I have recently written in my new book that to the best of my knowledge all
abductees have been physically not in place during the abduction. This
statement seems rather sweeping but I feel that it is accurate. The Puddy
case is interesting but quite obviously the event that you describe is not an
abduction. Mrs Puddy might indeed be an abductee (the sightings that she had
earlier experienced might be evidence of this) but the incident in the car has
all the earmarks of either being a "channeled" episode or a flashback to a
previous event, or evidence of mental instability. Whereas on the surface it
might appear that this has all the hallmarks of an apparent abduction, in fact
the description that she gave of the entity, the entity's movements, the
entity's motivations, and so forth, would be immediately suspicious to me. Her
description of the inside of a UFO might well have been picked up either from
a previous abduction or from some outside conventional source. The only way
that one can find out these things with a reasonable degree of assurance is by
doing hypnosis with somebody who thoroughly understands the abduction
phenomenon so that the hypnotist and/or researcher can tell when she veers off
what is presently known about abductions. I hope that my book will help in
that endeavor.
All of this goes back to the problem that Jim Speiser brought up about
what is to be believed in conscious recollections of unusual events. People
will confabulate, they will remember things wrongly, they will unconsciously
elaborate and add material, they will slip into "channeling," and they will
exhibit evidence of mental abberations. Separating the wheat from the chaff
is a difficult task. But the most important thing to understand is that there
is wheat. Dwelling on the chaff is like spending all of one's time ruminating
about UFO sightings that are identified! It was the sightings that could not
be identified that brought us all here.
It is true that we only have a few cases of uninvolved bystanders
witnessing an abduction of another person. This situation is involved with
the technology employed for carrying out the abduction. Budd Hopkins is at
present working on a sensational case that does include bystanders witnessing
the abduction. He will probably write a book about it and it will go a very
long way towards putting this controversy to rest. The IUR will also publish
an article of mine addressing the issue.
Budd and I have many cases in which people witness others being abducted
and are not abducted themselves. They are often "switched off" so that they
can do nothing about it and their accounts are usually, but not always,
recovered with the use of hypnosis. We also have many cases in which several
people are abducted at once and they can independently confirm their
experiences without knowing that their fellow abductees have also remembered
the event.
Incidentally, Jenny Randles talks about the Sunderland case but makes no
reference to her mother seeing her in bed during a supposed abduction.
Keep up the good work!
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.PARANET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Answers
Date: 4 Feb 92 06:49:27 GMT
Sheldon, I was not aware of your long messages on file, and I only recently
read them. I will try to answer some of your queries as best I can, but you
must remember that I certainly do not have all the answers to all questions.
Yes, it is possible that those people who are abducted and who ae alone
and who are not seen by others might in some way still be physically in place
during the abduction. This is something that we cannot be sure of. In the
same way we cannot be sure that they did not fly to Mars during their
abduction. We cannot be sure that they did not meet with President Bush and
then both forgot the incident. Please pardon the humor, but we cannot prove a
negative. All the evidence that we have points to the fact that people are
not physically in place during an abduction and none of the evidence we have
points to their being in place (the Puddy case not withstanding--see my
remarks to Keith Basterfield).
Could two, three, four or more people have a shared fantasy inwhich they
all see each other being abducted and then relate the same events in minute
detail? Yes, I suppose anything is possible. Is there any evidence for this?
Not a shred. In fact even though Benjamin Simon suggested the Hills were
involved with a shared fantasy, or folie a deux, there was also no evidence
for this diagnosis other than what he thought. You must remember that shared
fantasies in rich, minute, extraordinary detail and length are so rare that
they are practically nonexistent and most psychiatrists will never see a case
of it.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.PARANET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Answers continued
Date: 4 Feb 92 07:19:27 GMT
Sorry I pressed the wrong buttons and inadvertently saved the message in
mid-word.
Do people who see others being abducted associate with them afterwards?
Usually that is true. In fact many of the episodes do not come to light until
a very long time after the event. Are they in collusion to promote a hoax? I
guess it's possible, one cannot prove a negative and therefore we will never
be able to prove that it did not happen. Is there any evidence for this? Not
a shred. Did they just associate together and therefore pick up the stories
either consciously or unconsciously? I suppose that this is also possible,
but we have once again found no evidence for it whatsoever.
You mention that the data presented that you have read seems to suggest
that the abduction phenomenon is internally generated in greater numbers than
what I and my colleagues say. The only thing that I can say to that is that
in my research and in Budd Hopkins', the idea that abductions are internally
generated has been carefully considered and rejected as not fitting the
evidence as we have found it in our studies. John Mack, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard University, shares our views and is at a loss to explain
how these accounts could possibly be internally generated given the knowledge
that we have about the human mind and about the abduction phenomenon. I have
tried to address myself to these points in my book (perhaps not as successfully
as I should have).
How are memories stored in the mind? I used the word "mind" on purpose
because I do not know the physiological mechanism for the storage of memories
in the brain. In fact, neurologists are just beginning to make some headway
in this area. Memory is not well understood even in the most normal of
situations and I could not hope to understand how abduction memories
physiologically differ. The best that I can do is to describe the process of
recollection and try to draw analogies to best make it understood. The best
way I can put it is that the memories are "stored" in an "area of the mind"
that is not amenable to "normal" recall.
Does abuse cause abductions? There is not a shred of evidence to support
this contention. It does not seem to matter whether people have been abused
or not. Are there more people abused who are abductees than not? To the best
of my abilities to estimate, the answer is no. Unfortunately I have not
conducted a scientific poll to find out for sure. Of course, since science
cannot prove a negative, we can never be absolutely sure that abductees were
not abused even though they may have absolutely no awareness of it whatsoever.
The problem here is that the abduction phenomenon itself constitutes a form
of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. How does one differentiate this
type of abuse from the more common variety? Now we are involved with the
complexity of studying the abduction phenomenon and its effects on the
victims. I have talked a little bit about this in a piece that I wrote for
the Journal of UFO Studies which is due out shortly (actually I am not sure
whether Mike Swords is going to run my article--we'll see).
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.PARANET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 4 Feb 92 14:03:00 GMT
David,
Recently, Budd Hopkins was in Denver for a series of lectures on abduction
research. He was a very captive guest and the people coming to the lecture
enjoyed him immensely.
I am curious on a couple of points:
1) I have heard that there are "occult-" related incidents that usually
follow an alleged abduction experience. An example is poltergeist activity,
heightened psychic perception, etc. How many of your studies does this occur
in? Have you found any type of patterns that would link a person's interest
or activities in such matters relevant to the experience?
2) CUFOS has just produced a very good video, 'Contact UFO: Alien
Abductions,' in which they produce statistics concerning data gleaned from
their abduction research. In the video, they state that a certain percentage
of abduction experiences involve torture. What does this mean to your
research?
3) Do you feel that the related experience is an accurate rendition of what
actually happens or do you feel that the recalled memory may be some type of
programmed memory, actually hiding the true experience?
Thanks for your time.
Mike
--
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From: Steve.Stelter@f134.n109.z1.PARANET.ORG (Steve Stelter)
Subject: Re: Premature Births
Date: 8 Feb 92 02:50:00 GMT
I agree with you on the fact that some of the abductions could be memories
of seeing the doctors when being born, or possibly memories of other times
when the abducties might have been hospitalised for whatever reason. I myself
have been in the hospital twice and every now and again I wake up with same
recurring nightmare of people in blue standing around me doing whatever it
is they are doing. Believe me, it's a terrifying experiance. I'm not saying
that abductions do occur, but the majority of them are probobly just memories
of a hospital stay.
--
Steve Stelter - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.PARANET.ORG (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Breakdown
Date: 9 Feb 92 05:31:00 GMT
Due to a technical problem, we have lost some of the messages from
Paranet when I polled last Thursday, February 6. If anybody has sent
messages to Bill Chalker, Keith Basterfield (or myself) since
Saturday, February 1, would you kindly send them again. This is just
in case you have replied to some of our messages or have any queries.
We have had a few hiccups in transmission during the past two weeks.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Regards from "Down Under",
Vlad
--
Vladimir Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: David.Jacobs@paranet.PARANET.ORG (David.Jacobs)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 8 Feb 92 06:31:42 GMT
Mike, abductees frequently report poltergeist or relaed activity
that happens to them. When this has been reported to me and I have
investigated it through hypnosis, the poltergeist activity
invariably turns out to be abduction related events. For example,
one man with whom I had worked for over a year reported a strange
expereince in his kitchen. He was making rice in an electric rice
maker and instead of it being done in the normal half-hour, it only
took two minutes. His "take" on the subject was that it was "them"
either sending him a "message" or playing a "joke" on him, or it was
a sort of miraculous situation, which in his world view, was just as
possible. We did a session on the rice incident and what had
happened was that he was in his kitchen making rice, an abduction
occurred, and he was returned an hour later. He had completely
forgotten about the abduction, collapsed the two ends of it and
"voila" the rice was cooked in two minutes. With abductees I have
yet to see strange episodes not related in some way to the abduction
phenomenon.
You also ask about the abduction video. I have not seen the
video nor was I consulted about it so I have no idea what is in it.
The question of torture is a difficult one. It depends on what you
mean by that term. If you mean the deliberate and malicious
infliction of bodily and/or mental pain upon someone to elicit
information of some kind, then the answer is no, it is not part of
the abduction scenario. If you mean the deliberate, but not
malicious, infliction of pain for purposes that are obviously
fulfilling some sort of physiological or mental agenda, then they
answer is yes, that does occur from time to time. If you mean that
the abductees consider their situations to be torturous--that is to
say unendurable because of the trauma inflicted by the entire
predicament that they find themselves in, then the answer is
definitely yes.
Mike you might also want to check out some of my previous
messages regarding the reliability of hypnosis and consciously
recalled memories. It is very common for people to "recall" events
that did not happen. It might be because that is the way they chose
to interpret the events, it might be because they have mixed up
dream material in the events, or it might be because specific and
detailed images have been placed in their minds which is remembered
as "reality."
The more you get into abduction research, the more you realize
how complicated and subtle it is.
Hope you liked Budd's presentation. I assume that he laid to
rest the idea that he wrote what the World Weekly News said he wrote.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
--
David
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sue.Widemark@f37.n114.z1.PARANET.ORG (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Your Wildcat!
Date: 8 Feb 92 22:45:00 GMT
> I Agreed! There are other places to discuss that matter. I
>too have a a Wildcat! board with a large religious discussion area.
>You too, of course,
>are more than welcome to call and join in conversation.
Gif me the number and I will gladly call!
{Sue}
{Cheese Whiz Wildcat! BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400}
--
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 10 Feb 92 00:51:01 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <05-Feb-92 00:49>
David Jacobs wrote:
DJ> Yes, it is possible that those people who are abducted and who
DJ> are alone and who are not seen by others might in some way
DJ> still be physically in place during the abduction. This is
DJ> something that we cannot be sure of.
When you state "might in some way still be physically in place
during the abduction", what exactly do you mean by "some way"? You
seem to be implying that perhaps the abductee is simultaneously in
more than one locale. Am I interpreting this accurately?
Also, through your observations, what are the approximate
percentages of abductions that ARE witnessed by non-participants
vs. those that are singular, unobserved events?
DJ> All the evidence that we have points to the fact that people
DJ> are not physically in place during an abduction and none of the
DJ> evidence we have points to their being in place (the Puddy case
DJ> not withstanding--see my remarks to Keith Basterfield).
I shall have to read of this evidence in your new book, and
hopefully, be convinced of its validity. I always thought that a
great many cases could not really be proven either way, due to a
lack of witnesses.
DJ> The only thing that I can say to that is that in my research
DJ> and in Budd Hopkins', the idea that abductions are internally
DJ> generated has been carefully considered and rejected as not
DJ> fitting the evidence as we have found it in our studies. John
DJ> Mack, a professor of psychiatry at Harvard University, shares
DJ> our views and is at a loss to explain how these accounts could
DJ> possibly be internally generated given the knowledge that we
DJ> have about the human mind and about the abduction phenomenon.
I understand and agree to a limited extent. For example, PTSD seems
to be generated *only* through an external event, and many, but not
all abductees appear to be suffering from it. We must all remain
open to the possibility that abductions are occurring on at least
two levels. One being capable of explanation though more mundane
psychological methods, the second being resistant to our attack
with conventional approaches. The latter is of course the crux of
this conference, but the former is really of no less significance.
If I am interpreting you correctly, virtually every abductee that
has made themselves available to you, Hopkins, et al, has shown no
sign of psychological deviation from traditionally accepted values,
that could possibly account for their abduction experience. If
true, that exceedingly high degree of "normality" amongst your
sampling would in itself make that population segment "abnormal",
since a certain degree of statistical deviation would be
anticipated.
DJ> The problem here is that the abduction phenomenon itself
DJ> constitutes a form of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse.
DJ> How does one differentiate this type of abuse from the more
DJ> common variety?
Good point... and an even better question. Obviously, we have only
begun to scratch the surface of this mystery. A great deal more
contemplation of the observed data, and continued serious, ongoing
investigation is necessary to fully assess what we are confronted
with.
Again David, I look forward to reading _Secret Life_, which I
understand will be on the shelf in Chicago by the end of this week.
Hopefully, your undertaking will prompt other professionals to
enter into the abduction realm, advancing our knowledge and
understanding of this most bewildering event.
Take care,
Sheldon
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Abduction Digest, Number 48
Tuesday, February 18th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Abductions in the Media
Message Re-send
Abductions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Abductions in the Media
Date: 11 Feb 92 03:30:00 GMT
Two upcoming media events will highlight the abduction phenomenon, both
of them produced by Peabody Award winner Tracy Torme'. The first is the
long-awaited mini-series treatment of Budd Hopkins' best-seller
"Intruders," which will air on two consecutive nights in May. UFO
purists will no doubt decry the fact that it is a fictionalized version,
with only one scene taken straight from the book, says Torme'. But, he
says, it will be generally good exposure for the subject. It will air on
CBS, which is already producing a teaser called "The Making of
`Intruders.'"
The second and more ambitious project is "Fire in the Sky," about the
Travis Walton case. Torme' originally wrote the screenplay three years
ago, but as in the case of "Intruders," Hollywood politics has kept it
out of production - until now. Tracy has set up shop at Paramount
Studios, and shooting begins July 1st. The director is Rob Leiberman,
whose credits include TV's "Gabriel's Fire" and the Jon Voigt movie
"Table for Five."
Tracy has promised to make himself available to ParaNet in the near
future to provide more information and to, as he puts it, "quash
rumors."
Jim Speiser
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Chris.Lightner@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Chris Lightner)
Subject: Message Re-send
Date: 12 Feb 92 00:12:25 GMT
Keith, this is a message you may not have received due
to the transmission problem reported by Vladimir Godic.
Sysop - The Lighthouse BBS / ParaNet Delta-Alpha
*********************************************************************
DATE..... : 02-03-92 00:34:52
TO....... : Keith Basterfield
FROM..... : David Jacobs
SUBJECT.. : Abductions
I have recently written in my new book that to the best of my
knowledge all abductees have been physically not in place during the
abduction. This statement seems rather sweeping but I feel that it is
accurate. The Puddy case is interesting but quite obviously the event
that you describe is not an abduction. Mrs Puddy might indeed be an
abductee (the sightings that she had earlier experienced might be
evidence of this) but the incident in the car has all the earmarks of
either being a "channeled" episode or a flashback to a previous event, or
evidence of mental instability. Whereas on the surface it might appear that
this has all the hallmarks of an apparent abduction, in fact the
description that she gave of the entity, the entity's movements, the
entity's motivations, and so forth, would be immediately suspicious to
me. Her description of the inside of a UFO might well have been picked
up either from a previous abduction or from some outside conventional
source. The only way that one can find out these things with a
reasonable degree of assurance is by doing hypnosis with somebody who
thoroughly understands the abduction phenomenon so that the hypnotist
and/or researcher can tell when she veers off what is presently known
about abductions. I hope that my book will help in that endeavor.
All of this goes back to the problem that Jim Speiser brought up
about what is to be believed in conscious recollections of unusual
events. People will confabulate, they will remember things wrongly, they
will unconsciously elaborate and add material, they will slip into
"channeling," and they will exhibit evidence of mental abberations.
Separating the wheat from the chaff is a difficult task. But the most
important thing to understand is that there is wheat. Dwelling on the
chaff is like spending all of one's time ruminating about UFO sightings
that are identified! It was the sightings that could not be identified
that brought us all here.
It is true that we only have a few cases of uninvolved bystanders
witnessing an abduction of another person. This situation is involved
with the technology employed for carrying out the abduction. Budd
Hopkins is at present working on a sensational case that does include
bystanders witnessing the abduction. He will probably write a book about
it and it will go a very long way towards putting this controversy to
rest. The IUR will also publish an article of mine addressing the issue.
Budd and I have many cases in which people witness others being
abducted and are not abducted themselves. They are often "switched off"
so that they can do nothing about it and their accounts are usually, but
not always, recovered with the use of hypnosis. We also have many cases
in which several people are abducted at once and they can independently
confirm their experiences without knowing that their fellow abductees
have also remembered the event.
Incidentally, Jenny Randles talks about the Sunderland case but makes
no reference to her mother seeing her in bed during a supposed abduction.
Keep up the good work!
*********************************************************************
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 12 Feb 92 07:02:28 GMT
Sheldon, I think that one of the problems here is one of definition. My
definition of an abduction may be very different than your's or Keith
Basterfield's or others who have perhaps not been as steeped in the subject
as Budd Hopkins or I. When I talk of abductions, I am presupposing that the
abductee has had a physical event occur to him which involves loss of time,
physical displacement, mental and/or physical sequelae, and a series of
defined procedures administered to him during the event. When people claim
to be abducted and are not, for example mentally unstable individuals, or
channelers, they do not fit the definition of being an abductee. They do not
have a loss of time that they nor anyone else can account for, they are
always physically in place during the supposed event, they do not have the
mental and physical sequelae that is evidence for their event, they can not
correctly identify the procedures that nearly all abductees discuss (this,
unfortunately, will change when my book comes out). Therefore they most
likely have not had abduction experiences regardless of what they claim and
it is a mistake to label these people as abductees.
When people contact me to investigate their experiences, I try to screen
them as carefully as I can. I ask a series a indirect questions that helps
me to ascertain whether the unusual events in their lives are related to my
field or not. For those people who I think are not abductees, I tell them
that their experiences reside in an area that I do not have the expertise to
help them in. Therefore the people who come to me have a high possibility of
being actual abductees or, to be more precise, of fitting the profile that is
my definition of abductee. Now it is obviously a little more complicated than
that. I routinely reject
people who might very well be abductees but who also have mental problems
with which I will not be able to contend. I sometimes reject people who
might very well be abductees because they are so encased in a New Age
structure that it is very difficult to break through it to find out what is
happening. I reject people who are going through a traumatic situation in
their lives--divorce, death in family, and so forth--because I think that
beginning to explore these experiences might be more than they can deal with
at this particular time. I recommend against exploring these experiences if
a person is enjoying a happy, fulfilling life with no serious problems (as
far as I can tell) who just want to find out on a lark what is happening with
them. I do not deal with children directly.
As you will soon see, my book does not address all these issues but it
does try to address the internal generation of abduction accounts and show
how they cannot account for the evidence as presented by actual abductees.
The book is not a heavy-duty attempt to convince people of the legitimacy of
the subject, rather it is an effort to define the parameters of it and to
show that the idea of internal generation of the accounts is greatly lacking
as an explanatory model.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
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Abduction Digest, Number 49
Thursday, February 27th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Abduction Research
_Secret Life_
Shamanism
Shamanism
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 22 Feb 92 22:08:00 GMT
> Brent, I missed your message first time around. Apologises. I'd be happy
> to send you a copy of this article. My address is P.O. Box W42, WEST
> PENNANT HILLS, NSW, 2125, AUSTRALIA.
> What is your address? If anyone else is interested in the possible
> shaman/UFO abduction connection let me know and I will send the article.
Please include me also, Bill.
P.O. Box 172
Wheat Ridge, CO 80034-0172
Thanks,
Mike
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: _Secret Life_
Date: 24 Feb 92 04:10:03 GMT
Hello David,
I just picked up a copy of your book, _Secret Life: Firsthand
Accounts of UFO Abductions_. Did the publisher change your original
title? I thought the sub was to be "the structure and meaning of
UFO abductions".
I have only glanced through it so far, but hope to read it in the
next few days - after which I'm sure we'll get an interesting
dialogue initiated.
BTW, you'll be please to know that the store I purchased _Secret
Life_ from sold out their first shipment in only 2 days! Looks like
you're creating quite a stir.
Take care,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Shamanism
Date: 24 Feb 92 04:11:04 GMT
Mike, when you receive that "shamanism" article from Bill Chalker,
could you please post it here, or at least an abstract of it?
Also, (not related - but to save bandwidth), when you talk to Linda
Howe, I'm interested in corresponding with M.D.s other than John
Altshuler who have examined cattle mutilation wounds. Could you
please ask her for any names and contact information she might
possess?
Thanks,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Shamanism
Date: 25 Feb 92 13:11:00 GMT
> Mike, when you receive that "shamanism" article from Bill Chalker,
> could you please post it here, or at least an abstract of it?
I will be glad to.
> Also, (not related - but to save bandwidth), when you talk to Linda
> Howe, I'm interested in corresponding with M.D.s other than John
> Altshuler who have examined cattle mutilation wounds. Could you
> please ask her for any names and contact information she might
> possess?
Yes. I will correspond with you via netmail on 104/605 about this. Ok?
Mike
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Abduction Digest, Number 50
Tuesday, March 3rd 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Personal Experience
Re: Your Wildcat!
implant?
Book Review
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill.Skiles@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Skiles)
Subject: Personal Experience
Date: 28 Feb 92 03:46:00 GMT
Well, I spoke with John Hicks a little bit and he said that maybe I should
talk with you. I have debated it for a while and I guess I'll just take the
plunge. My name is Bill Skiles and I think I may have had an experience. I
am not going to say that I was Abducted or anything for sure but I have been
reading your messages and I feel that you can ask me your questions and
maybe I can put this thing to rest.
I have had several sightings of UFO's since I was a kid and used to be
interested in them as a kid. I forgot all about them until about two years
ago. I had a sighting about that time. I didn't think too much about it but,
I went on about my business. Well, last summer, I went down to the
Everglades here in Florida. I had the usual day that one has on an airboat.
Just good fun. That night, I was having a hard time falling asleep because
of the humidity. As I lay there, tossing and turning, I was not asleep. My
wife was lying asleep next to me and our foster some on the bunk across the
way. Both of them were asleep. I just lay there and tried to settle down, I
has my eyes closed. Suddenly I felt or heard someone in the room. I opened
my eyes or maybe one eye I can't remember, but I saw three (3) figures, or
robes or some kind of cloth on three figures float or glide past my bed. I
can not recall any heads or faces. Yes, it was pretty dark, no lights on but
I should have been able to see there faces. Anyway what I did see was a very
bright green-blue ball of light that was on the tip of a stick or (like a
pointing stick) with a ball of light about the size of a cigarrett cherry. I
can't really describe this. Let's see. Maybe twice the size of a cigarrett
cherry. (I forgot to tell you, I had turned around to where my head was at
the foot of the bed because that's where the fan was.) Anyway, this light
floated down past me to where the head of the bed was and stopped for a
second. But then it came back and stopped DIRECTLY in front of my eyes. I
had the impression that it was looking for me. What was strange to me is
that I just lay there, immobile, not moving. I remember having the thought
that I will just lay here and maybe "they" won't know I'm awake. But, that's
crazy, cause normally I would say, who is it! I would get up, I would be
startled! Nope, I just lay there like a kid (I'm 38) like a kid thinking if
I lay real still it will be all right. Anyway, That's it. That's all I
remember. The next morning my wife was acting very strange. She was almost
in a panic to leave the place. You would have to know her. She is never in a
panic. I've seen her handle very explosive kids (We're theraputic foster
parents), I've seen here de-esculate kids that I was afraid to get too
near. She doesn't scare easy. But that morning she made us leave a day
earlier than we had planned. She was scared of something, although she said
she wanted to check on her elderly grandmother. I just don't buy it.
The reason that I want to talk with you or send messages is because since
then I have been reading some books on this subject. (I know I probably
messed up any accurate analysis, I've filled my mind up some). But at any
rate I was reading about Betty and Barney Hill and I just thought that I
would check my body out one night a couple months ago. I found a scar that
I've never had before, It is about 5" and runs from my groin area up around
my thigh. I have never had any surgery unless you count tonsills. I am kinda
scared about this. That is to say, If it is a scar. (Could be a stretch mark
but the wife says, uh uh, no way it's a scar. I'm too scared to go find out
and anyway where could I go. (Ahem, excuse me Doctor could you tell me if
this is a scar, I don't remember any surgery, sounds kinda nuts). I was
gonna wait until I found out for sure about the scar, before I bothered you
Dr. Jacobs but It's gettin to me. I feel kinda violated and angry and like
what gives them the right! That kinda stuff. So, I don't have space to go
into the other sightings now (several) since I was a kid. My sister
remembers some too. But maybe you can clear it all up and tell me that it
was just in my head. Maybe just an active imagination after reading a couple
books. I'm not comfortable at all right now. Can you help me? Please don't
brush me off right now as I haven't been able to talk to anyone. At least
wait until you find out that I'm really basically normal. Thanks for your
time.
P.S. I am usually pretty stable, yes I do have other pressures right now,
ex-wife suing for 30,000 sort of stuff. But I've never been known to have
serious problems (mentally). Don't drink, no drugs. Not into New Age or any
religion. Don't much like church. Do believe in God. That's all I can think
of. Oh, very happily married. Sorry to be so long winded. Bill Skiles
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Danny.Brandenburg@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Danny Brandenburg)
Subject: Re: Your Wildcat!
Date: 28 Feb 92 08:36:43 GMT
Sue...
My Wildcat! board can be contacted at (606) 255-5739. I think you will
find several things of interest there (ie. the religious area and the
paranormal/religious file areas).
Leave me a message when you get there and I will upgrade your
security.
Brandenburg
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: implant?
Date: 29 Feb 92 05:49:01 GMT
I am currently examining an x-ray photograph sent to me by Steve
Jones of Elverta, California, which exhibits a possible implant
residing within a living subject.
The image measures approximately 2.5mm in diameter, and contains
six barb-like projections extending roughly .75mm from the
apparently spherical surface. The barbs are equidistant from each
other, at angles of about 60 degrees. The object appears to lie at
the upper edge of the pelvis, in the vicinity of the spleen.
My question is, does anyone know of any reports of a similarly
configured implant, and if so, could you please cite complete
references to specific cases.
Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Book Review
Date: 28 Feb 92 13:56:00 GMT
Dave:
The following informal review of your book appeared on the GEnie network,
courtesy of Brent Wilcox.
Jim
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
PSINET
Category 2, Topic 2
Message 51 Fri Feb 21, 1992
B.WILCOX5 [Brent Wilcox] at 02:25 EST
[...]
As for Jacobs, his book is provocative to say the least...
==WARNING: Rampant SPECULATION Zone Ahead == (Pages and Pages...)
He develops a generic scenario for "real" abductions, and is
careful to distance himself and the abduction phenomena from other
aspects of Ufology, especially "contactees" (whom he generally
ridicules based on the more flamboyant and publicity-seeking). I
think abductees and contactees are two sides of the same coin, but
Jacobs tries to present abductions as a relatively new and perhaps
unique phenomena. Mostly, this is an understandable attempt to
focus attention on it and study it in its own terms, to show that
there is a physically real phenomenon involving non-human entities.
But there are some strongly non-physical or paraphysical elements in
the scenario he develops, and numerous psychological aspects he
discards or glosses over to emphasize the physicality.
Two points come to mind -- folklore and stigmata (and physical
effects found in some multiple personality cases, too). He
discounts the folkloric element of abductions, on the one hand to
assert that they are =not= urban folklore. Fine. But he discards
possible traditional folkloric parallels because the individuals in
his cases are simply not storytellers, that they aren't connected to
the evolving body of folklore in any direct way, and don't seek
publicity for their experiences. But books like his and Hopkins',
(let alone the upcoming TV version of Intruders) inevitably generate
folklore, and are inevitably linked to the evolving process he tries
to avoid. And he overlooks the possibilty that traditional folklore
may have grown from half-recalled abduction experiences, or the
cover memories he says the "entities" routinely plant. In fact,
manipulating a culture's folklore may be a more powerful, more
subtle and long-lasting, tool than manipulating newspaper headlines.
He emphasises the extreme mental control the "entities" have over
the abductees during the process -- they can play the human nervous
system like a piano, perhaps even re-tune it. My own thoughts keep
coming back to that aspect. For one thing, how can he say for sure
that the scenario he's uncovered isn't itself a planted memory?
He rightly points out that "normal" cases of stigmata occur in
people with high levels of conscious, religious belief, yet
abductees develop physical symptoms (scars, rashes) without any
conscious belief-system. The deep mental manipulation involved
makes me wonder if "belief-free" stigmata could be generated. I've
read of people having allergic reactions under hypnosis without an
allergen present, and developing blisters from objects that aren't
hot. And persons with multiple personality disorder can have
allergic reactions when an allergic personality is dominant.
He may be correct that folklore, multiple personalities, and
stigmata (and the many other non-pysical explanations he rejects)
can't explain abductions in themselves as they are presently
understood. But there may be psycho-physical mechanisms involved in
those that are also involved in abductions.
He states outright near the beginning that the entities intentions
are "reproductive" in nature, involving interspecies genetic
experimentation. But the scenario he develops still strikes me as
some sort of "Abduction Theater", and that the entities intentions
are more likely psychological than biological or genetic. The
physical examinations may be important for the psychological
results of being so examined. The whole experience may be
preparation for the "messages" and the psychological aftereffects
(for the abductees and the culture in general).
Though to finally answer your question, Bubba, he doesn't really
cover the "messages" in any detail, in part because I think he's
afraid of having his people sound like "contactees", and because
he's more interested in the medical and biological motifs. The
"presentations" abductees get after the physical exams -- which
include general warnings of ecological or nuclear disaster -- are
treated sparingly if at all.
Biologist Richard Dawkins (I hope I have his name right!) came up
with the concept of the "meme" as the human cultural equivalent of
the "gene", and proposed that memetic evolution was now more
important to the human species than genetic evolution. "Memes" are
basically ideas and beliefs shared by groups of humans, and
arrangments of memes are what define differences in human cultures.
And "memes" compete as "genes" do.
Is the genetic motif a "theatrical" metaphor for the memetic
manipulation that's actually going on?
== Now Leaving SPECULATION Zone = Have A Nice Day! ==
Phew!
----------
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Abduction Digest, Number 51
Saturday, March 7th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Unusual experiences
Book Remarks
Secret Life
Re: Personal Experience
Re: Book Remarks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Unusual experiences
Date: 2 Mar 92 06:44:11 GMT
Bill, thank you for your thoughtful message. I do not think that it would
be ethical for me to reply to you directly about your situation in public. The
best that I can do is to talk in general terms. Generally people who have had
abduction events will not remember the event per se, but will remember
circumstances surrounding the event. Those circumstances might be similar to
what you have described. People will describe repeated UFO sightings,
unexpected out of body experiences, the appearances of "ghosts," seeing
inexplicable lights or balls of light in their room, seeing figures around
their bed, and so forth. Having had these experiences does not necessarily
mean that a person is an abductee. But it does mean that there are suggestive
areas that might be looked into. Looking into these events, however, is for
most people a very important decision. If one finds out that one is involved
with the abduction phenomenon, then one's life tends to change--permanently.
Once a person finds out what has been the cause of these events is, the very
state of knowing can cause a certain amount of disruption in one's life. There
is an "upside" and a "downside" to finding out. The downside is that people
tend to get temporarily depressed over the knowledge, they tend to feel
emotionally isolated when they meet with ridicule after telling friends and
family what has been happening to them, they tend to fear that the events
will happen again, they can develop sleep disturbance problems, and so forth.
The upside is just as important. When people finally decide to find out
what is happening to them and their suspicions are confirmed, confusing
elements of their lives now have an explanation. For the first time they are
able to understand exactly what has happened to them and to apply that to a
great many aspects of their lives. The cathartic effect of remembering the
events for the first time is invaluable in relieving psychological pressure
and anxiety that might have been built up over a long period. They find
themselves in the unique position of finding out completely new information
about their lives, something that rarely happens to most people. Finally,
they know. Knowing is the first step to emotional and intellectual control
over the situation--something that they have never had before.
So, finding out is a serious decision. The most important factor to
remember is that one must see a competent researcher. Unfortunately there are
few around. I do not know where you live so I cannot see if anyone is in your
area who is experienced. I know this sounds terrible, but I would suggest
that anyone you select should be familiar with my new book. It does not
matter whether they are researchers or therapists. There are good and bad in
both groups. What is important other than having a thorough knowledge of the
phenomenon is that the person is sympathetic, empathetic, and sensitive to the
feelings and needs of the client.
I'm sorry to be so general, Bill, but I think it is best to be armed going
in for all people.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Book Remarks
Date: 4 Mar 92 07:20:39 GMT
Jim, thanks for the posting. I had already seen it but I appreciate your
effort. The book seems to be stirring up controversy. It has not been
reviewed in the standard journals yet (except Kirkus reviews) and I am hoping
that it will be favorably received. However, the material is pretty "far out"
so I am not sure what to expect. Thanks again.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Secret Life
Date: 5 Mar 92 06:04:00 GMT
David,
I have just received a copy of your book. I am getting ready to plow into it,
but I wanted to let you know that I think the cover is outstanding. Looking
forward to reading it!
Mike
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Personal Experience
Date: 5 Mar 92 06:16:00 GMT
Hi Bill,
I read with interest the account of your personal experience. Would
you be kind enough to post an address as I would like to send something
to you.
I want to assure you that I'm an trustworthy old soul and have been
on Paranet for over a year. I almost croaked with bronchitis these
past two months; that's why you haven't seen me on the board!
Kindest regards,
Linda Bird
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Book Remarks
Date: 5 Mar 92 06:21:00 GMT
Hi David,
I can't wait to read your book and will be purchasing it from Arcturus
Books in Georgia in a day or so. (I can only afford one book, so I
choose yours! <:-)
Kindest regards,
Linda Bird
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Abduction Digest, Number 52
Thursday, March 12th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Book
Book
Re: Personal Experience
Abduction Detection
Secret Life
Book
Re: Personal Experience
Secret Life
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Book
Date: 7 Mar 92 07:46:12 GMT
Hello Linda. Thank you for wanting to read my book. I would be interested
in your reactions to it. In fact, I am interested in the reactions of anyone
who might have read it. So far I have only had one print review, so I am
still somewhat in the dark about what people think about it. I have had some
very gratifying feedback from UFO researchers and I am hoping that others
might find the book useful.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Book
Date: 8 Mar 92 07:07:00 GMT
_Secret Life_ is perhaps the most straightforward, serious and *accessible*
book about the ufo phenomenon and abductions in particular that I've ever read.
It appears to me that your book will go a *long* way toward establishing
*real* credibility for abduction investigation and research, rather than
simply credibility among ufologists.
jbh
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill.Skiles@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Skiles)
Subject: Re: Personal Experience
Date: 8 Mar 92 21:52:00 GMT
Dear Linda,
I'm kinda testing the waters right now, and trying to sort through some
things. I don't really want to Post my address yet, as I might open myself
up to all sorts of stuff. I am usually slow to trust and this is definitley
an area that could leave me wide open. Please, give me some time or if you
can recieve E-mail in the states, I will send my address to you, but,
exactly what is it you want to send? No offense.
Bill Skiles
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 10 Mar 92 03:11:02 GMT
David... It would seem that if the abduction phenomenon is indeed
a physical event, the appearance of the alien(s) in our environment
should be detectable through the use of ultra-sonic or infra-red
motion sensing devices.
My question is, has any attempt been made to set up a "perimeter
defense" utilizing this technology, around an individual who claims
to suffer from frequent abduction episodes?
I also have a second unrelated question. I have been corresponding
with an abductee in Texas, whom I belive to be quite
straightforward, that is suffering from a most unusual post-
abduction effect. She literally "freaks out", as she puts it, when
she looks at any _hexagonal_ floor tile pattern. She is convinced
that this is somehow related to her experiences. Have you observed
any similar reactions to hexagonal tile patterns in your subjects?
Take care,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Houston.Mayer@f100.n1010.z91.FIDONET.ORG (Houston Mayer)
Subject: Secret Life
Date: 10 Mar 92 04:03:00 GMT
I'm half way through your book and I find it itensely interesting. You said
the subject would be on the far out side of normal abduction acounts, It
really makes you think. I personnally don't want to "Look Up" anymore. I
strongly urge everyone of us to read this book and keep a copy in our
library for reference. Is chapter 5 some of the information held back by
other researchers of the abduction experiences?
Houston
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z91.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Book
Date: 11 Mar 92 05:40:00 GMT
Hi David,
I couldn't stand it anymore and sent off for your book yesterday! Now
comes the wait. I'm sure your book will arrive just as my new graduate
class convenes March 31. <sigh>
I look forward to the response of others regarding your book as well.
Kind regards,
Linda
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z91.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Personal Experience
Date: 11 Mar 92 05:45:00 GMT
Hi Bill,
No problem with your wanting to test the waters. Yes, I do receive
E-mail, and you can check the tagline at the bottom of this message for
the code.
I just wanted to send you an account of a strange sighting I had in
March '88. I felt mildly paralyzed by the light, my husband wasn't
moving either, and it seemed to get late really fast. My husband
poo-poos this entire topic; it's not in his power to be open-minded
about this topic.
Take care,
Linda
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Secret Life
Date: 11 Mar 92 15:20:00 GMT
I have finished reading Secret Life. Kudos! on a well done literary work. I
am preparing a review of it, and I thought that I would make some preliminary
comments here. I yet have to go back over my notes to firm up my
observations, so this is very general.
First, I was not impressed with John Mack's forward in your book. I felt it
was totally inappropriate and too philosophical for a psychiatric doctor,
especially when your writing seems to contradict his final paragraphs about
the "Western" world being too pre-occupied with scientific matters. His idea
is to persuade the reader that we should be looking more at the "Eastern" way,
or the more mystical, to find the answers to this phenomena.
You have done well in conveying the seriousness that this aspect of the
phenomenon represents. No doubt, abductions represent a serious trauma to the
victims, which you have aptly labeled them, and you make a case for the
continued serious research and scientific involvement that this so badly
deserves.
I was especially impressed with your matrix and the way that you carried the
reader through the various levels of the experience. I highly recommend this
book be read by all.
Again, congratulations on a fine piece of work.
Mike
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Abduction Digest, Number 53
Wednesday, March 25th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Secret Life and FPP
Abduction Detection
Abductions & _Secret Life_
Abduction Detection
Abduction Detection
Drs & Cattle Mutilations
Abduction Detection
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Anson.Kennedy@p0.f25.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Anson Kennedy)
Subject: Secret Life and FPP
Date: 13 Mar 92 03:39:00 GMT
I just got _Secret Life_. While I haven't had a chance to read it in detail,
I have skimmed it. I think people are going to be referring to it for quite
some time.
In Chapter 11, "Answers," you say WRT fantasy-prone personalities (FPPs), "Of
course, some people do spin fantasy-abduction tales. But their idiosyncratic
stories do not match the accounts given by other abductees. They have not
usually undergone competent hypnosis. They act more like a combination of
channelers annd contactees seeking publicity and perhaps money and yet still
not fabricating a conscious hoax." This is apparently geared towards
dismissing FPPs as a viable explanation for abduction reports.
In the article "UFO Abductees and Contactees: Psychopathology or Fantasy
Proneness?" (_Professional Psychology: Research and Practice_, 22(3): 215-222,
1991), Keith Basterfield (who I think posts here on occasion), et al, link a
high proportion of abductee and contactee reports to FPP. Admittedly, they
examined only case histories (as I understand it) and not the subjects
themselves, but doesn't this tend to contradict the statements you made in
_Secret Life_?
DISCLAIMER: I have no training in psychology. I'm just asking a question
about what appears to *this* layman as some mutually-exclusive conclusions.
--- Anson
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 12 Mar 92 06:21:00 GMT
> My question is, has any attempt been made to set up a "perimeter
> defense" utilizing this technology, around an individual who claims
> to suffer from frequent abduction episodes?
Also, many modern cameras have a "trap focus" mode, in which you focus on the
desired distance, and if something moves to that spot and is detected as being
in focus, the camera fires. Note that this function is completely passive.
Might be worth a try too.
jbh
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abductions & _Secret Life_
Date: 14 Mar 92 03:21:01 GMT
David,
I have noticed in appendix B on page 327-328 of your book _Secret
Life_, you list 39 abductees whose statements appear in your book.
I have also observed that of the 39 individuals listed, 22 are
female and 17 are male, or a ratio of female to male of
approximately 1.3:1. I realize this is a small cross section to
work with, but do you feel this apparent sexual correlation will
continue to hold true? If so, have you any clues as to why 56.4% of
your sample set is female and 43.6% is male?
I am also interested in the geographical origins of the individuals
on this list. Were these predominantly east coast cases, or was it
a more geographically heterogeneous mix?
Besides their perceptible predilection for female subjects, the
aliens also seem to be partial to rather "zoftig" women. Have you
noticed a higher than anticipated number of moderately to grossly
over-weight women in your sample set? If so, were they over-weight
prior to their experiences, or were their body mass expansions
consequent to the abduction event? One abductee I have worked with
feels that her "overweightness" is a kind of safety mechanism to
protect her from future abductions. Conversely, I know you
mentioned in your book that the aliens became quite concerned for
an abductee that was exhibiting symptoms anorexia. They told her
she should eat more.
BTW, Dr. Michele Lecher, the clinical psychologist from Oregon I
mentioned to you a few weeks back, is currently finishing your
book, and I hope to schedule a conference call at a time mutually
convenient for all in the near future.
Regards,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 15 Mar 92 04:57:01 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <11-March-92 23:21>
John Hicks wrote:
JH> Also, many modern cameras have a "trap focus" mode, in which
JH> you focus on the desired distance, and if something moves to
JH> that spot and is detected as being in focus, the camera fires.
JH> Note that this function is completely passive. Might be worth
JH> a try too.
I agree John. Perhaps the more low-tech the detection device is,
the better the chances for success in catching an alien in the act.
As David Jacobs related in _Secret Life_, the aliens seemed quite
flustered by an abductee's plastic dental retainer plate, yet are
capable of manipulating our minds almost effortlessly.
Trap focus sounds intriguing, but I would imagine the "trap focus"
mode found in photographic equipment utilizes infra-red to detect
an object that has moved into focus, so this too is not entirely
passive.
David mentioned that video-taping a prospective abductee's bedroom
proved useful in forestalling, but not eliminating the abduction
experience. Eventually, the aliens simply ordered the victim to get
out of bed and turn off the camera, allowing the abduction to
proceed on schedule - and undetected.
Perhaps we need something *really* low-tech... like a large wooden
crate, propped up by a dowel rod attached to the abductee's ankle
with a piece of monofilament fishing line... with a strawberry ice
cream cone as bait. The only problem is how to keep the ice cream
from melting. <g>
Take care,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 16 Mar 92 05:44:00 GMT
> Trap focus sounds intriguing, but I would imagine the "trap focus"
> mode found in photographic equipment utilizes infra-red to detect
> an object that has moved into focus, so this too is not entirely
> passive.
No, in fact they are entirely passive. The AF system found in SLR cameras
"looks" for highest image contrast; it's presumed that an in-focus image shows
higher contrast than an out-of-focus image, and it works. These things can
focus on a race car coming straight at you In the trap-focus mode, the camera
shoots when image contrast is sufficiently high to be taken for an in-focus
image. You're partly right; most of the small AF point'n'shoot cameras use an
IR rangefinder.
> Eventually, the aliens simply ordered the victim to get
> out of bed and turn off the camera, allowing the abduction to
> proceed on schedule - and undetected.
Yes, that's interesting. Maybe a camera could be somehow installed in a
sealed box in some way that the victim couldn't move the box. But then, I
believe David Jacobs mentioned that some victims are made to go into another
room.....
> Perhaps we need something *really* low-tech... like a large wooden
> crate, propped up by a dowel rod attached to the abductee's ankle
Sounds like the best idea yet! ;-)
> The only problem is how to keep the ice cream from melting. <g>
We could concentrate on Canadian and Alaskan abductees...... ;-)
jbh
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Drs & Cattle Mutilations
Date: 16 Mar 92 13:47:00 GMT
>Also, (not related - but to save bandwidth), when you talk to Linda
>Howe, I'm interested in corresponding with M.D.s other than John
>Altshuler who have examined cattle mutilation wounds. Could you
>please ask her for any names and contact information she might possess?
Hello Sheldon,
I saw your message (part of which is above) and wondered if
you would be interested in talking to the specialist I interviewed
for OMNI when I wrote about Linda Howe and Dr. John Altschuler's
conclusions (re her then-new book, _An Alien Harvest_.) I talked to
several veterinary specialists for that article, and all said the #1
expert in the field for this type of forensic pathology would be Dr.
John King at Cornell. Linda was kind enough to send Dr. King a copy
of her book (which, as you may know, reproduces the slides of animal
tissue and offers close-up, clear photos of the "cookie cutter"
wounds), and, when that intrigued him to the point he asked to see
the actual slides himself, she and Dr. Altshuler also shared that
material with him. Dr. King is a delightfully candid person who
speaks clearly and understandably, for layman or professional. If
you would like to have a contact number for him, let me know.
By the way, are you also on Compuserve?
==Peggy==
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@p5.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 18 Mar 92 09:18:21 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <15 Mar 92 22:44> John Hicks wrote:
>> The only problem is how to keep the ice cream from melting. <g>
JH> We could concentrate on Canadian and Alaskan abductees...... ;-)
Alright you guys, (hyuck, hyuck, hyuck...). What's the big deal about a
photograph? Nobody, _nobody_, would believe it anyway. We already have a
dozen or so fully studied photos that have led to exactly nowhere...
I just started Jacob's book so this might sound completely stupid but why
hasn't anybody used a personal telemetry device that _cannot be detached_???
These devices are cheap and common, already in use by numerous local and state
jurisdictions to monitor work-release prisoners and parolees, and I don't
care _what_ orders are given to the potential abductee these devices
are _not_ coming off without a serious bit of work...??? I can't be the first
person to come up with this idea...
Regarding abductees being ordered by their abductors to turn off the camera, I
assume that _this_ (the abductee waking/rising and then turning off the camera)
is also on videotape? Has anyone seen this?
Thanks, take care.
John.
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Abduction Digest, Number 54
Tuesday, March 31st 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Abduction Detection
"Empty-Womb" Syndromes
I'm back again
Thanks
Fantasy Prone Personalities
Book
Abduction detection
Larry King
Abduction Detection
Secret Life - Questions, 1/3
Secret Life - Questions, 2/3
Secret Life - Questions, 3/3
Abduction detection
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 25 Mar 92 04:32:00 GMT
JP> I just started Jacob's book so this might sound completely
JP> stupid but why hasn't anybody used a personal telemetry
JP> device that _cannot be detached_???
Good idea. Two problems....finding an abductee who's willing to take the
risk, and perhaps a much more difficult problem, finding the money to pay
for the gear.
JP> waking/rising and then turning off the camera) is also on
JP> videotape? Has anyone seen this?
*Good question*.
jbh
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From: Doug.Morrow@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Morrow)
Subject: "Empty-Womb" Syndromes
Date: 27 Mar 92 23:13:00 GMT
David,
You mention in your book that you have at least one case where a
doctor confirmed a missing fetus. Without mentioning the names or
any of the specifics, has it been documented, or is it just the
abductees word that the doctor confirmed it?
It would seem very important to get some legitimate confirmation of
something like this, given the (apparently) vast number of times
that you say it is happening. If this phenomena could be reliably
documented four or five times, it would go a long way toward
dispelling my (and possibly others) doubts about the real external
"reality" of it. I am not suggesting that your subjects are lying,
but I do believe that there is a very high likelyhood that many, if
not most of these reports are based on subjective experiences of the
abductee, but "written and directed" (if you will) by the
instigators of the phenomena.
It is not that I don't think that there is nothing to the experience
or the overall phenomena, but that what is being reported is
intended to be misleading and decieving. If there were some
documented cases of missing fetus', that would lend strong
support to the external reality of the abductions.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: I'm back again
Date: 30 Mar 92 04:43:55 GMT
Thanks to all for forebearing with me until the book tour and publicity is
over. I have come back for a week or so although the activity still
continues. Right now I am rescheduled for the Larry King show on April 10th.
They are trying to get me on it March 30th, but I do not believe that I will
be able to do it. I will try to get to all my messages in the meantime. I
must say that I have been swamped with phone calls and mail. I am just now
trying to dig my way out from under it all. Thanks for waiting!
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Thanks
Date: 30 Mar 92 04:48:46 GMT
Michael, thanks for your kind words about my book. I especially appreciate
the thoughts about my matrix. Although it looks simple, there is a lot of
work in it.
John Mack's foreword is indicative of how people can investigate and think
about this subject in very different ways. I hope that once the subject
becomes more regularized and systematized, the thought about the subject will
also become more systematic and the interpretation will be the subject of
debate.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Fantasy Prone Personalities
Date: 30 Mar 92 05:01:18 GMT
Thank you for your note, Anson. I am afraid that I do not place much stock
in the fantasy prone personality hypothesis. I find no evidence that it plays a
significant role in the generation of abduction reports. All the fuss about it
is based on the vague notion that in some way abduction reports are generated
by people who have a "condition" that impels them to fantasize so strongly
about abductions that it appears real to them. Once again, there is simply no
evidence for the great body of abduction reports. The Bartholomew--Basterfield
article that you allude to does not make a very strong case for the
fantasy-prone personality to figure into abduction reports.
The problem was that the way that abductions were defined was so vague and
"contactee"--oriented that it became meaningless. If you wish I could go into
much more detail about the FPP hypothesis and the article, but suffice it to
say that the FPP hypothesis is, as far as I am concerned, a non-starter.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Book
Date: 30 Mar 92 05:09:01 GMT
Thanks for your message Sheldon. I am not really sure why there are more
women than men in my study. This might be an artifact of the small population,
it might be because women tend to come forward more, it might be because there
are more women abductees than men. We really do not know.
Geography and location appear to be almost meaningless in the abduction
phenomenon. I work with people within a hundred mile radius of Philadelphia,
but that is for convenience so that they can see me on a regular basis if they
want. The abductions in my population occurred all over the United States.
If people float through a closed window and nobody sees this, then location
is not important. Put away your maps and push-pins.
There does not seem to be any correlation between being overweight and
being abducted. I think that about 40% of the population is overweight in the
United States, and therefore that probably shows up in the abductee population
as well.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Abduction detection
Date: 30 Mar 92 05:15:33 GMT
I welcome any and all comments about abduction detection. Of course we have
thought quite a bit about this and we have tried to put some things into
effect but so far without success. The most important thing is that it must
be passive, difficult to tamper with, and simple. The video camera going all
night long is a good example of this. Yes, I do have a video of a woman getting
up around 5:30 a.m., walking over to the VCR and turning it off for apparently
no reason. When I get a chance I will relate some of the suggestions that have
come my way.
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From: Jim.Shaffer@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Shaffer)
Subject: Larry King
Date: 30 Mar 92 07:49:00 GMT
Last weekend, my brother called me to say he had heard you were going to be on
the Larry King show on CNN that Tuesday. I tuned in Tuesday and Larry said
that there would be a "big UFO debate" on Wednesday. Wednesday came and there
was no UFO debate, and Larry didn't say anything about a postponement or even
indicate in any way that anything was *supposed* to happen. Could you fill me
in?
(P.S.: My brother was assuming that the guest would be David Jacobs. If it
was to be someone else, does anyone know what happened anyway?)
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From: John.Powell@p5.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 28 Mar 92 19:17:59 GMT
In a message to John Powell <24 Mar 92 21:32> John Hicks wrote:
> JP> I just started Jacob's book so this might sound completely
> JP> stupid but why hasn't anybody used a personal telemetry
> JP> device that _cannot be detached_???
JH> Good idea. Two problems....finding an abductee who's willing to
JH> take the risk, and perhaps a much more difficult problem, finding
JH> the money to pay for the gear.
Based on some of the transcripts in Secret Life I rather suspect that at least
some of Jacob's clients are less than excited about their abductions and some
have used the camera technique and a few other techniques... Based on the
alien's responses to these techniques it doesn't _seem_ to be a risk to attempt
these type of things... I'm guessing that this gear (the telemetry device,
ankle bracelet) could be loaned out. Maybe not from a State/Fed agency, but
maybe from the manufacturer. The gear to monitor the telemetry device could
probably be found in most any University electronics or engineering lab...
>From a double-blind viewpoint the Abductee would be convinced that they are
unable to remove/deactivate the device (which would probably be true anyway
aside from any convincing), _and_ they'd be unable to turn off the monitoring
machine since it wouldn't necessarily even have to be in the same location...
If no Abductions occur then I guess nothing would really be proven beyond what
is already proven/suspected. However, if the monitor registers the telemetry
device at 60,000 ft., well... <grin>
Two other comments on a personal telemetry device: I think it would be supreme
irony and humor for us to employ one... Even the aliens might appreciate that
one... And, at least for me, it would be more important than a photograph any
day...
> JP> waking/rising and then turning off the camera) is also on
> JP> videotape? Has anyone seen this?
JH> *Good question*.
I just finished the book. Damn fine work! Regardless of what it is that is
causing/doing the Abductions, Jacobs deserves an award for establishing a
rather solid structure and methodology, and the medical/psychiatric community
should be embarassed and ashamed that a professor of history had to go out to
the fringes to codify something that _they_ should have already been focused
on and addressing...
Thanks, take care.
John.
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From: John.Powell@p5.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Secret Life - Questions, 1/3
Date: 28 Mar 92 20:22:37 GMT
I just finished your book. Thank you very much for what I thought was an
excellent work! (And thanks for being available for questions and discussion.)
I don't want to be totally rude, but I have about 3 pages of questions... (The
numbers are the pages in Secret Life that generally contain the material
referenced by the question.)
(25) Have you personally seen any markings? Regarding the "scoop" mark that
Fowler received, any idea on why it healed as a scoop mark and did not 'fill
in?'
(28) You mention that each Abductee contributed a portion of the overall event
scenario, could you provide an aggregate percentage estimate of how true to
the scenario all of your client's experiences have been?
(45) "...slipped into channelling..." Has this been independently documented?
Have you ever witnessed this?
(71) Why do you think children are not switched off? Is it possible that they
are switched off yet, since they're children, have absolutely no way of
perceiving that they have been switched off?
(82) Can you be more specific regarding impaired vision? Do you think it might
be an effect of partial paralysis (can't move eye muscles for focusing or eye
movement)? Would the consciousness/perception impairment result in 'images'
simply not being 'registered' at the time?
(86) Has an Abduction ever been aborted?
(93) Do you have any ideas why the special attention to the coccyx?
Descriptions of aliens seem to suggest that they don't have one (or knees or
elbows either)...
(?) Is it possible that the Staring is a trick or diversion and that a handheld
device is placed on or near the head?
(136) Maybe the "black box" is a 'creativity test', to measure the different
things Abductees think it might be?
(151) The track-ball pointing device witnessed in 1965 was interesting. Aside
from the beam in/out, what other specific examples of alien technology, that
is fully beyond our own R&D, have been witnessed/described?
Thanks, take care.
John.
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From: John.Powell@p5.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Secret Life - Questions, 2/3
Date: 28 Mar 92 22:57:32 GMT
(153) "...the variety of aliens..." Regarding the Visualization Procedures,
this is a rather provocative statement. In your work have you, or anyone you
are aware of, also kept a list of the various types of aliens? Is it worth
the trouble to do so?
(?) Regarding the Child Presentation (Nursery/Incubatorium), and really for the
sake of elaboration, why have you selected this as a standalone event and not
as a standard Envisioning and/or Visualization event?
(159) You pretty clearly suggest here, and elsewhere in the text, that some
Abductions are a monthly (if not _more_ frequent) occurance. Have you noticed
any other timeline-like patterns?
(?) Has there ever been independent corroboration of a multiple Abduction?
(For example: Person A gets abducted on a specific date and works with
Investigator 1, Person B gets abducted on the same date and works with
Investigator 2, Persons A & B each describe other humans present, Investigators
1 & 2 eventually get together and compare notes and then try to match up the
people...)
(?) Regarding Multiple Abductions (and the Media Display, 194), is it
reasonable to assume that the people are from generally the same geographic
location? Is there enough data to lead to any tentative assumptions in this
area?
(?) Have you, or anyone you are aware of, attempted to correlate over time the
geography of Abduction events?
(197) You mention some Abductees have shown "...isolated factual knowledge
about scientific topics...", can you give some examples? Is this information
common knowledge but simply unknown to the Abductee or is it R&D/Advanced
information?
(213) Regarding 'switching off' and the in-car events, don't the passengers
notice the time lapse from the car radio? Regarding switching off in general,
what about smokers, has anyone burned themselves or others or something nearby?
While switched off don't people get cramped or need to go to the bathroom? (I
know these sound kind of stupid but the switching off seems to be fraught with
mundane complications...)
Thanks, take care.
John.
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From: John.Powell@p5.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Secret Life - Questions, 3/3
Date: 28 Mar 92 23:22:55 GMT
(?) Do you know the racial distribution of American Abductees?
(?) How do the aliens take notes? Have they ever been seen evaluating
information, as oppossed to collecting information/data?
(240) Can you elaborate on the detected implants? What were/are the specific
surgery-related risks of upper nasal passage implant removal/recovery?
(?) Frequently in the narrative text the Abductee relates communication from
the aliens using contractions and other colloquilized grammar, and I've
assummed that this is simply a convenience of the Abductee, but has this been
specifically explored? Have you learned anything about their (alien's) command
of our languages? (Do southerners receive communication with a southern
accent? Do non-English speaking Abductees receive communication in their
native language?)
(291) Could you elaborate on the significant differences, if they exist,
between remembered and regressed Abduction scenarios? Any ideas on why one
person would have better unaided recall than any other?
(302) You mention Abduction(s) that have been independently witnessed, where
can I find out more about them?
(333) You mention one individual who was at that time mentally disturbed, how
did the aliens react to a mentally disturbed person? (They seemed quite
perplexed when someone put dots on their chest so I'd guess they'd be nearly
gridlocked given a mentally disturbed person...)
Last question!
I thought Secret Life was an excellent book! I think the work you're doing
with Abductees and the mental health community is equally excellent and
important! However, what role is the AMA and/or APA playing in this matter?
What can private concerned individuals do to help?
Thanks, take care.
John.
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction detection
Date: 31 Mar 92 06:08:00 GMT
> I welcome any and all comments about abduction detection. Of course
> we have thought quite a bit about this and we have tried to put some
> things into effect but so far without success. The most important thing
> is that it must be passive, difficult to tamper with, and simple.
How about using a home-security-style motion detector to turn *on* a
battery-powered camcorder?
In standby mode, a camcorder might sit still for hours without consuming lots
of battery power. The motion detector could be run off a separate battery, and
would simply turn on the camcorder (in record mode) when motion (with heat) is
detected.
This approach would lend itself to a "black box" setup that wouldn't be
plugged into AC and would be relatively tamper-resistant.
A still-photo approach would be to use an auto-everything camera that's
linked to the motion detector.
Most cameras you might use turn themselves "off" after a short while; but
they're not really off, they're resting. They'll shoot instantly, but in the
auto-off mode the camera batteries will last about as long as if you'd
actually turned the camera off.
You could use an auto-everything type of camera, but I think better yet, use
a mechanical manual camera with everything preset. Just use the motion detector
to close a relay that'd trigger the camera's motor drive. An Olympus OM-1
w/winder (relatively inexpensive) or Nikon FM w/winder are a couple of
examples of this type of camera. With a 24mm wideangle lens, you wouldn't need
AF.
Most motion detectors will "see" through glass or plexiglass (or can be
adjusted to), so in that setup, the whole thing could be encased in a
tamper-resistant box and batteries for the camera motor and the motion
detector would last a *long* time.
Also, a mechanical camera would be less subject to EMI.
I see a few problems.....
The subject moving the box into another room or covering it up, the subject
triggering off all the film by just moving around, and the subject going into
another room to be abducted.
If the box could be bolted into a ceiling corner, it'd be hard to move or
cover up. A 250-exposure film magazine would make the film supply last longer
(but the film would be expensive). Nothing you could do about other rooms other
than put a rig in each room.
Alternative triggers would be IR beams (Dale Beam), sound triggers (Dale and
Wein) and slave triggers that are commonly used to fire remote flashes. Slaves
trigger on any fast increase in ambient light.
The aforementioned devices aren't passive, except for the sound trigger and
the flash slave trigger, but I wouldn't hold out lots of hope for those two
anyway.
For another approach, some cameras have a "trap-focus" mode; you pre-focus
the camera on a spot, or distance, and when something moves to that spot, into
focus, the camera shoots. This is entirely passive. Two examples are the
Yashica 230AF (relatively inexpensive) and the Nikon N8008s w/MB-21 back
(expensive). By "relatively inexpensive" I mean less than $500 or so full-up.
These systems are commonly used for unattended wildlife photography. You
preset the camera on a trail, and when the animal appears, the camera
photographs it. These cameras could be completely sealed into a box.
*But* these cameras would be susceptible to EMI, even though they're
shielded to some extent.
Probably the only tamper-proof systems would be the "bank surveillance" type
of systems, but I think that's getting into really big money.
Hope this give you some ideas, at least....
jbh
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Abduction Digest, Number 55
Monday, April 6th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Re: Abduction Detection
abductions
Book
Re: Abduction detection
Re: Abduction detection
Abduction Detection
Abduction Detection
Abduction Detection
Rocky Mountain UFO Conference
Dave Jacobs New Book
Research
Overweight?
abduction research
_Secret Life_ reviewed
Re: Research
Re: Overweight?
Re: Overweight?
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From: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Davis)
Subject: Re: Abduction Detection
Date: 30 Mar 92 06:44:00 GMT
The problem with such a device is that short of integrating it into a
vital organ wherein removal would be fatal to the host, how would you
make it non-detachable? Indeed, how would you integrate it without
killing the host? I suspect that a race capable of inter stellar
travel, the abduction of humans, and all the rest we sometimes
attribute to the yet-unproven invaders, would have no difficulty in
detecting a removing anything we could implant ourselves.
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: abductions
Date: 2 Apr 92 03:00:02 GMT
Hello Keith,
I think there is another significant dilemma with hypnotic
regression that has not been addressed since David Jacobs returned
as moderator of this echo. Specifically, if an individual comes to
a hypnotherapist for the purpose of learning more about their
"abduction", has not the seed of potential fantasy already been
sown in their minds? They are not seeking to find out *if* they
were actually abducted - of that they are already convinced. They
are seeking details of the event(s).
A related question that comes to mind, is how many abductees have
pursued therapy simply because they feel out of sorts, or that
something "unconventional" may have occurred to them. There is no
musing that anything as bizarre as an abduction might have
occurred. The Hill case is of course a classic example of this
genre. Neither Dr. Simon, nor the Hill's had any inkling of what
was going to be revealed. Nowadays, both the patient *and*
therapist *anticipate* an abduction to be disclosed. This element
of expectation would seem to decisively prejudice the outcome,
don't you think?
I still am having a great deal of difficulty with David Jacobs
conviction that virtually none of the abductees he has written
about in his book _Secret Life_ are perchance suffering from some
form of psychological irregularity. Jacobs recently stated on an
American television show that he conducts a 1 1/2 hour long
preliminary interview with his subjects prior to accepting them.
If anything psychologically anomalous is apparent, he refers them
to proper counseling. I am certainly not qualified in this area,
but I do not comprehend how an individual's psyche can be
accurately assessed in an hour and one half. It could take *years*
to unsheathe well camouflaged aberrant behavior.
Changing the subject, will you be attending the conference that
David Pritchard is organizing this June at MIT? It sounds most
intriguing. I would love to attend, but unfortunately admission is
by invitation only, and I am not on the list. Hopefully, the
conference proceedings will be available to us. Jenny Randles has
written that she will be at MIT, and will also speak at a
conference at the University of Nebraska in May. She will be
stopping in Chicago for a day or two at which time we shall try to
meet.
I enjoyed reading your article, _Implants_ in the recent issue of
_IUR_. Very well done... but how do you ever find the time for all
that writing? You must be one of those lucky individuals that can
get by on 4 hrs of sleep. Anyway, keep up the superb work.
Take care,
Sheldon
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Book
Date: 2 Apr 92 17:11:00 GMT
Dave:
You say the 40% overweight figure "probably" shows up in the abductee
population as well; are you aware of whether or not a study has been done on
this? Ray Maurer and I were discussing this aspect just last night. We spoke
with the girl he called you about, and she is slightly overweight as well.
This makes three of the four people I've dealt with (the fourth is almost
painfully skinny). An admittedly very small sample, but it got me wondering.
Jim
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Abduction detection
Date: 2 Apr 92 17:13:00 GMT
Dave (and all):
Anybody have any suggestions as to how to hook up a motion detector to
trigger a VCR? We have access to motion detectors, all we need now is a
schematic.
Jim
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Abduction detection
Date: 2 Apr 92 17:21:00 GMT
John:
Ray Maurer and I have been discussing implementing this very concept. If we
gave you some info on our motion detector and our camcorder or camera-VCR
setup, do you think you could shoot us a schematic of how it should be
hooked together?
Jim
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 1 Apr 92 20:48:00 GMT
JP> if the monitor registers the telemetry device at 60,000
JP> ft., well... <grin>
Couldn't argue with that very much.
JP> And, at least
JP> for me, it would be more important than a photograph any
JP> day...
Yes.....somewhat more difficult to fake.
JP> and the medical/psychiatric community
JP> should be embarassed and ashamed that a professor of
JP> history had to go out to the fringes to codify something
JP> that _they_ should have already been focused on and
JP> addressing...
The medical community, in general, suffers from their group mindset even
when they disagree; plus, I think the "gatekeepers" keep the fringe stuff
out of professional journals.
A while back I talked with a very prominent local psychiatrist about the
abduction phenomenon; he said he'd heard of it and wondered what was going
on, but that he'd *never* seen any substantial information on the phenomenon
upon which to begin serious consideration. And this guy is practically the
"dean" of psychiatry in this area.
He's open-minded, but oddball stories from space alien magazines are
pretty useless to him.
I think Dr. Jacobs used his abilities as a historian to great benefit in
his abduction investigations; it's a much different viewpoint than the usual
doctor-patient relationship.
jbh
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 2 Apr 92 18:39:00 GMT
> The problem with such a device is that short of integrating it into a
> vital organ wherein removal would be fatal to the host, how would you
> make it non-detachable?
Yes, that's the difficult part.
> would have no difficulty in detecting a removing anything we could implant
> ourselves.
That's a key right there. If an abductee has a telemetry bracelet or whatever,
which the person couldn't feasibly remove, if it vanishes, to some extent that
would be "proof."
jbh
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 4 Apr 92 02:03:00 GMT
> JP> and the medical/psychiatric community
> JP> should be embarassed and ashamed that a professor of
> JP> history had to go out to the fringes to codify something
> JP> that _they_ should have already been focused on and
> JP> addressing...
>
> The medical community, in general, suffers from their group mindset
> even when they disagree; plus, I think the "gatekeepers" keep the fringe
> stuff out of professional journals.
> A while back I talked with a very prominent local psychiatrist about
> the abduction phenomenon; he said he'd heard of it and wondered what was
> going on, but that he'd *never* seen any substantial information on the
> phenomenon upon which to begin serious consideration. And this guy is
> practically the "dean" of psychiatry in this area.
> He's open-minded, but oddball stories from space alien magazines are
> pretty useless to him.
> I think Dr. Jacobs used his abilities as a historian to great benefit
> in his abduction investigations; it's a much different viewpoint than
> the usual doctor-patient relationship.
We recently had a psychiatrist join our ranks in MICAP. We met with him for
lunch and asked him various questions about the abduction phenomenon. We were
surprised with the answers. This person has been practicing a number of
years. He deals with the general community as well as two mental hospitals in
the Denver area. He stated that in all of his years of working with patients,
he has never heard one claim of abduction.
Sheldon brings up a very good point regarding the pre-disposition of the
alleged abductee seeking out a hypnotherapist or doctor in psychology for the
exploration of a possible abduction experience. If the alleged abductee has
already suspected an abduction, it requires further study to determine alleged
abduction experiences among a random sampling of the general population to
determine the numbers reporting such an event. According to recent findings
released by Hopkins, after conducting a Roper poll, it is believed that as
many as 17% of the population could be an abductee. This translates into an
incredible number of potential abductees among the general population. I find
it quite unusual that a psychiatrist would not have at least one person in his
client base telling him this story. Although one psychiatrist's testimony
does not invalidate Hopkins' findings, it is worthy of study to make some
determination based upon random sampling.
Mike
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble
Subject: Rocky Mountain UFO Conference
Date: 4 Apr 92 20:11:52 GMT
From: sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
I attended this last year and was suprised to find that a large
proportion of the attendees were contactees/abductees.
I hope to attend again this year. Are any of the other Abductions
contributors planning to go? It is in Laramie last week of June.
Steve.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble
Subject: Dave Jacobs New Book
Date: 4 Apr 92 20:12:06 GMT
From: sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Hi David,
Your book seems to have been very well received in the US.
Are there any plans to release it in the UK? If so, do you
have any details like dates, publisher?
Regards
Steve Gamble
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Research
Date: 3 Apr 92 02:33:00 GMT
My apologies for not posting for a while-I am still waiting for my
copy of David Jacob's book so cannot comment on this yet. Also, I have
been busy on other aspects of UFOlogy.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Overweight?
Date: 5 Apr 92 04:04:01 GMT
In a message to David Jacobs <02-March-92 10:11>
Jim Speiser wrote:
JS> You say the 40% overweight figure "probably" shows up in the
JS> abductee population as well; are you aware of whether or not a
JS> study has been done on this?
I am not aware of any substantiating inquiries into this aspect,
but from my limited experience, it certainly seems greater than
40%. I'll carry this thread a step further to state that it also
appears as though a disproportionate number of overweight women
"see" UFO's. I base this observation on the many photographs and
videotapes I have examined. This overweight state appears to hold
true for female abductees only. What do you think?
JS> This makes three of the four people I've dealt with (the fourth
JS> is almost painfully skinny). An admittedly very small sample,
JS> but it got me wondering.
Me too, Jim...
-- Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: abduction research
Date: 5 Apr 92 04:06:02 GMT
In a message to John Hicks <03-March-92 19:03>
Michael Corbin wrote:
MC> I find it quite unusual that a psychiatrist would not have at
MC> least one person in his client base telling him this
MC> (abduction) story. Although one psychiatrist's testimony does
MC> not invalidate Hopkins' findings, it is worthy of study to make
MC> some determination based upon random sampling.
Actually Mike, this evidence does seem to be the rule rather than
the exception. I was just speaking with Mark Rodeghier about this
the other night, and he agreed that we just don't see abduction
experiences being exposed spontaneously during the course of
psychotherapy. It is virtually unheard of, except for a mere
handful of cases. If this circumstance is in fact true, the
implications are obvious.
-- Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: _Secret Life_ reviewed
Date: 6 Apr 92 04:35:02 GMT
Hello David,
The following review of your book _Secret Life_, was published in
The Chicago Tribune newspaper, 30-March-92, and was written by Lynn
Van Matre, staff writer. I thought it might interest you.
.................................................................
ALIENS FROM SPACE 'ARE NOT HERE TO HELP US'
Abducted by aliens! It's the stuff of tabloid headlines and comedy
routines, conjuring up images of science-fiction films and big-eyed
beings. But for the more than 60 people whose experiences figure in
David Jacobs' engrossing _Secret Life_, it's no joke. It's
nightmarish reality.
Jacobs, a history professor at Pennsylvania's Temple University and
a UFO researcher for the last 25 years, acknowledges that the
concept is "inherently unbelievable". Still, he contends, the
similarities of scores of firsthand accounts, most obtained by
Jacobs from subjects under hypnosis, men, women and children
describe being taken forcibly from their homes and cars (generally
at night), transported aboard spacecraft and subjected to a variety
of medical examinations. Descriptions of the abductors are often
strikingly similar; so are the procedures, which generally involve
reproductive organs and leave physical traces such as scars. Some
abductees later discover small metallic balls in their nasal or
sinus cavities.
Are these people victims of mass hysteria? Attention-craving
charlatans out to make a buck? Obviously, the possibility of mental
illness or fraud is present in all reported UFO encounters. But
these abductees report no problems with mental instability; many
holding demanding jobs in law, medicine, education, and the media.
(Names have been changed in the interests of privacy, but correct
ages and occupations are given). What's more, according to Jacobs,
who addresses the possibilities of fraud and psychological problems
at length, most of these abductees are not familiar with UFO
literature. They make no attempt to capitalize on their experience
in terms of money or fame; instead, they devoutly wish it had never
happened.
Why are these abductions happening? Jacobs speculates that aliens
may need humans to help them produce other beings via the
harvesting of eggs and sperm. While the aliens are not necessarily
malevolent, "They are not here to help us," Jacobs concludes.
.................................................................
Van Marte also critiqued Ellen Crystall's new book _Silent
Invasion: The Shocking Discoveries of a UFO researcher_, far less
favorably than your work I might add.
Take care, -- Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Research
Date: 6 Apr 92 05:44:00 GMT
Hi Keith,
Your article came,and I thank you very much. I have the Mufon material
ready that I think you want, and will send it to you this week.
Thanks again,
Linda
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Overweight?
Date: 6 Apr 92 05:48:00 GMT
Hi Sheldon,
It is interesting that you bring up the overweight factor in regards to
female abductees. I was able to meet Debbie Tomey of Budd Hopkins'
book INTRUDERS and she is on the plump side.
Regards,
Linda
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Overweight?
Date: 6 Apr 92 06:13:00 GMT
My only experiences thus far have been with female abductees (and one male
whom we agreed is probably not one). So I'm not in a position to judge at
this point.
Jim
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Abduction Digest, Number 56
Thursday, April 9th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Overweight?
Support Group
Re: Abduction detection
UFO Mag. Vol.7 #3
Dr. David Jacobs
Abduction Detection
abduction research
_secret Life_ Reviewed
Re: Support Group
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Overweight?
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:20:01 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <05-April-92 22:48>
Linda Bird wrote:
LB> It is interesting that you bring up the overweight factor in
LB> regards to female abductees. I was able to meet Debbie Tomey
LB> of Budd Hopkins' book INTRUDERS and she is on the plump side.
I too met "Kathie Davis"/Debra Tomey at the Chicago MUFON symposium
last June. Interesting woman... and an intriguing case. I (and many
others) still seem to feel that there *may* be some correlation
between body fat and abductions in females, as disconnected as the
two conditions might seem. I know David Jacobs has not seen this in
his research... but that's part of the fun?? of all this. We all
see things differently.
Take care,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Support Group
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:21:02 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <04-April-92>
Jim Speiser wrote:
JS> Well, it hasn't gotten off the ground yet, but it looks like it
JS> might start pretty soon. We're getting a real influx of them
JS> down here all of a sudden. Will keep everyone posted.
You think you're being inundated now... just wait until next month
when the _Intruders_ mini-series comes to town! I predict (perhaps
this should go on "predictions") an enormous number of abductees
coming out of the closet. Better batten down the hatches and have
plenty of therapists on call.
JS> My only experiences thus farhave been with female abductees
JS> (and one male whom we agreed is probably not one). So I'm not
JS> in a position to judge at this point.
Do any of them happen to be left handed?
Regards,
Sheldon
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: Abduction detection
Date: 4 Apr 92 21:09:00 GMT
JS> think you could shoot us a schematic of how it should be
JS> hooked together?
I could try, but I have to tell you I'd be winging it.
Basically you want your motion detector to close a relay when it "sees"
motion. Many camcorders/vcrs use a remote or trigger that simply momentarily
closes a pair of contacts to start the tape, so that pair of contacts would
be closed by the relay.
Let me know what you have, maybe send me pinouts or schematics and I'll
see what I can do.
jbh
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker)
Subject: UFO Mag. Vol.7 #3
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:59:00 GMT
The new issue of UFO Magazine was just sent to press this date. Vol. 7 #3
promises to be a very big and very controversial issue.
The Whistleblowers: The Mel Noel Story. That guy featured in Tim Good's book
"Above Top Secret" and on the Fox TV UFO Sightings: Part I. What is the real
story? Well gang, here it is.
New News from the Commonwealth of Nations; the old USSR. Paul Stonehill brings
us news from Russia and UFOs that are interested in Russian Nuclear Sites.
Puerto Rico is still a "UFO" Hotbed. Greg Bishop brings news from Puerto Rico
on its ongoing UFO "flap", close encounters, etc.
The Forum; Vicki Cooper answers critics on her stance on the Gulf Breeze
photos.
CONSPIRACY: Part I The opening of a special two part section: an intro to the
vast array of conspiracy theories currently surrounding the UFO field.
JFK Reappraised; The assassination conspiracy in Stones movie may be closer to
the truth than many would believe, and more akin to the UFO mystery than you
might believe. See what Col. Fletcher Prouty has to say.
New SDI Stuff; What did the Pentagon have to say to UFO about Star Wars?
Plus Dave Jacobs new book, reviews on new videos, and a WHOLE LOT MORE.......
see ya there.....
Best;
Don
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From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker)
Subject: Dr. David Jacobs
Date: 7 Apr 92 06:10:00 GMT
On April 12th, Dr. David Jacobs will be a guest on my program "UFOs Tonite".
You will be able to pick us up on the Cable Radio Network at 9:00 PM PST and
12:00 AM Eastern. Of course also all the other times in between. You will be
able to ask David questions you may have, discuss his new book "Secret Life"
and find out what is happening right now. Tune in and we will see you there.
Best;
Don
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:26:00 GMT
> He stated that in all of his years of working with patients, he has never
> heard one claim of abduction.
That's interesting. Did he mention any claims of contact, rather than abduction?
> Sheldon brings up a very good point regarding the pre-disposition of the
> alleged abductee seeking out a hypnotherapist or doctor in psychology
> for the exploration of a possible abduction experience.
Yes, here we have an opening for screwiness. If a person doesn't know of
*and accept* the possibility of abduction by space aliens, then a person
wouldn't seek help in exploring a possible abduction, right? So there'd be a
predisposition.
> I find it quite unusual that a
> psychiatrist would not have at least one person in his client base
> telling him this story.
Yes, I agree. I'd think that even if a psychiatrist doesn't have someone
claiming to have been abducted, the same story would come out anyway. But I
suspect the abduction story has reached a *very* small number of psychiatrists
and psychologists, so Budd's finding might not be so far off the mark; we're
just not hearing of it from those doctors maybe because they're interpreting
the stories to be something else.
Also, since abduction memories appear to be repressed, lots of people could
be receiving treatment but the cause of their problems has never been
determined.
I know a couple of people who have *never* been exposed to ufo abduction
literature who have told me very similar stories to the classic "abduction
story" in dribs and drabs over time. There could have been no collusion, and
they had no discernible interest in ufology. One of those people has been a
client of a psychiatrist for about 10 years and the doctor did not uncover the
story.
I believe the trigger for these two people was my interest in the ufo
phenomenon and I think something I said or maybe showed them "unlocked" the
first memories. Only one of the two has been hypnotized, but that was in no
way a regression attempt.
Also, neither *claimed* anything or told anyone else.
So here's one who's likely to have been an abduction victim, if indeed there
are such things as abductions, and the doctor never heard the story.
jbh
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: abduction research
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:31:01 GMT
> he agreed that we just don't see abduction
> experiences being exposed spontaneously during the course of
> psychotherapy.
OTOH, a patient who believes himself to have been abducted might logically
consider such a story too nutball to even tell a psychiatrist. Or might be
afraid of commitment.
Also, since the abduction memory commonly appears to be repressed, it might
not come out without the patient and doctor actively looking for it.
Plus I suspect most doctors would routinely interpret such a story as meaning
something else entirely, or just dismiss it as fantasy. We're not hearing from
those doctors.
jbh
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: _secret Life_ Reviewed
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:34:00 GMT
>
> Van Marte also critiqued Ellen Crystall's new book _Silent
> Invasion: The Shocking Discoveries of a UFO researcher_,
> far less
> favorably than your work I might add.
>
Sheldon:
What did Lynn have to say about Ellen Crystall's book? Bob
Girard ripped it to shreds in the latest Arcturus catalog.
-- John
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Support Group
Date: 8 Apr 92 06:16:00 GMT
In a message to Jim Speiser <04-06-92 22:21> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:
SW> You think you're being inundated now... just wait until next month
SW> when the _Intruders_ mini-series comes to town! I predict (perhaps
Oh golly, I can hardly wait.
SW> Do any of them happen to be left handed?
SW>
I dunno, but Mark Rodeghier's in town, I'll ask him tomorrow.
Jim
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Abduction Digest, Number 57
Thursday, April 16th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Ellen Crystall
Larry King Show
Abduction Detection
Stuff
Research
Missing fetus syndrome
Larry King Show
Re: More Secret Life Questions
Re: _Secret Life_ Reviewed
Larry King Show
Re: More Secret Life Questions
Re: Larry King Show
Re: Secret Life - Questions, 2/3
Re: ABDUCTIONS
Re: OVERWEIGHT?
Re: _Secret Life_ Reviewed
Re: _Secret Life_ Reviewed
I'm back once again.
I'm back again (2)
Re: _Secret Life_ Reviewed
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Ellen Crystall
Date: 11 Apr 92 05:00:01 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <07-April-92 21:34>
John Burke wrote:
JB> What did Lynn have to say about Ellen Crystall's book? Bob
JB> Girard ripped it to shreds in the latest Arcturus catalog.
Yes John, Bob utilizes interesting merchandising techniques in his
operation. No doubt Ellen's book is selling well for him. If *I*
perceive a product to be "trash", I don't carry it.
Anyway... what follows are Lynn Van Matre's comments on Crystall's
book _Silent Invasion: The Shocking Discoveries of a UFO
Researcher_, from Chicago Tribune, 30-March-92:
................................................................
Ellen Crystall's _Silent Invasion_ (Paragon House, $19.95) is a
readable but hardly "shocking" first-person account of the writer's
20 years of UFO encounters. Crystall, a doctoral candidate in music
composition at New York University and founder of the UFO research
group "Contactee", had never been abducted, but believes that she
and others have been specifically targeted for sightings.
Over the years Crystall has taken more than 1,000 photos of alien
craft and their occupants, some of which are included here.
Crystall's sightings and photos, most of them in rural Pine Bush,
NY, (and many of them corroborated by other eyewitnesses) have
garnered her a credible reputation as a UFO researcher. But even
the most sympathetic reader will be hard-pressed to see the murky
photos reproduced here in black and white as proof of UFO
phenomena. The "ships" are mostly blips of light on a field of
black, and the "aliens" are wholly indistinguishable.
Crystall speculates that aliens avoid being photographed clearly by
surrounding their craft with shortwave radiation that interferes
with the emulsion of photographic film. Like Jacobs, she concludes
that the aliens are not here to help save Earth. These
extraterrestrial tourists are pursuing their own agenda - whatever
that may be.
................................................................
Take care,
Sheldon
---
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Larry King Show
Date: 11 Apr 92 05:00:02 GMT
David... I just saw your exchange with Larry King and Phil Klass on
"Larry King Live", and must commend you on a job well done! You
certainly maintained your poise throughout the discussion.
Obviously (or should I say "incredibly"), as Klass stated, he had
not read _Secret Life_, and was not *at all* familiar with your
position regarding the psychological condition of your subjects.
In fact, your convictions are actually in direct opposition to
Klass's indictments.
Debate is an effective tool only when both factions are well
acquainted with the topic at hand. Klass was conspicuosly ill-
prepared, even with his inaccurate notes.
You and I, and other participants in this echo, certainly don't
agree on all aspects of the abduction phenomenon, but at least our
dialectic is constructive. Klass's assertions ensconced nothing but
his own obliviousness to your work.
-- Sheldon
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From: John.Powell@p5.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 5 Apr 92 23:53:10 GMT
In a message to John Powell <01 Apr 92 13:48> John Hicks wrote:
> JP> and the medical/psychiatric community
> JP> should be embarassed and ashamed that a professor of
> JP> history had to go out to the fringes to codify something
> JP> that _they_ should have already been focused on and
> JP> addressing...
JH> The medical community, in general, suffers from their group
JH> mindset even when they disagree; plus, I think the "gatekeepers"
JH> keep the fringe stuff out of professional journals.
Actually, I don't have a real problem with that. I read several technical
journals and I prefer that they have fact-based and generally after-the-fact
type of material. (Or at least solidly grounded speculation...)
JH> He's open-minded, but oddball stories from space alien
JH> magazines are pretty useless to him.
He's not alone in that regard! <grin>
JH> I think Dr. Jacobs used his abilities as a historian to great
JH> benefit in his abduction investigations; it's a much different
JH> viewpoint than the usual doctor-patient relationship.
Yes indeed, I thought it was a terrific piece of work! (I hope he gets the
recognition he deserves and I hope the Ashtray Commandos leave him alone...)
Thanks, take care.
John.
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From: John.Powell@p5.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Stuff
Date: 7 Apr 92 07:20:49 GMT
Sheldon, I've lost my Fido UFO Echo link... Did you send me a Netmail a few
months ago? I tried to reply and it got bounced with some message like "no
one with that name at that address..."
Just read Keith's article on Implants in IUR. Did you notice that when this
matter got just big enough to require documentation that the leading
authorities are now claiming that the aliens are using "fleshy implants" that
are not detectable...???
Steve's implant X-ray/photo matches very well with a description in David
Jacobs book.
Thanks, take care.
John.
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Research
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:20:00 GMT
Hi Sheldon, sorry that I have been quiet on this folder for a while
but I have been attending to other aspects of UFOlogy, other than
abductions. (Yes, abductions are actually only one part of the
subject-there are still reports of disc like objects stopping cars
occurring in places etc). Anyway to your message.
1. Yes, I did receive an invitation to attend the conference at MIT in
June. However, I do not have a spare Aust$2,500 for the air fare I'm
afraid so I wont be there. Should be a good affair.
2. Thanks for the compliment on the IUR implants article. I enjoyed
writing it, though the research took some 6 months. Despite everything
which has been written on the topic-"we ain't got the proof" yet!
3. I'm looking at an article on the "missing fetus" syndrome next.
There are many claims to have come across abduction of females where
they were impregnated and then the fetus removed at 3-4 months. This
syndrome was uncovered by Budd Hopkins with the story of Kathie in
"Intruders", and followed by I think from memory 4 other cases,
described in the same book. From this Budd deduced aliens are here
experimenting with us genetically. However, Jean Mundy who analysed
some 2000 reported abductions from the Omni magazine survey stated
that only some 9 % of female abductees were reporting missing fetus'.
Somehow Budd's small sample of 4-5 cases has been blown up to be a
genetic experimentation hypothesis for 100% of cases. I'll be
exploring this theme in my article.
4. Re FPP. I think many people, including Dave Jacobs are missing some
vital points. No one to my knowledge, with the possible exception of
the latest CUFOS study, has utilised the main stream tests which
detected FPP in 1981, on abductees. What Bob Bartholomew and I
challenged people to do was to take a sample of abductees and run these
standard FPP detecting psychological questionnaires by them and answer
the question, scientifically, are abductees FPP? These tests are
listed in Barber and Wilson's, and others journal articles. Bob and I
listed them in a letter to the Journal of UFO Studies-they are
available to professional psychologists. One cannot dismiss the
possible relevance of FPP to abductees until this testing is done. No
one, (CUFOS?) has done the testing, therefore no one can yet say FPP
is not the answer!
5. Take a small, but highly significant fact in Barber and Wilson's
1981 work. They found that a large percentage of their FPP group had
experienced phantom pregnancies-cessation of menstruation, tender
breasts, morning sickness etc. 2 were so convinced they were pregnant
they presented for abortions. Come the abortion procedure no baby was
found! Exactly what Budd etc have been saying for abductees-the
missing fetus syndrome . Yet these 2 women were FPP with no thought, in
1981, of abductions. Were they actually abductees? Or, as is more
likely, so highly imaginative, they convinced themselves and the
medical profession they were pregnant! I've not found many abduction
researchers who have actually read the original 1981 Barber and Wilson
work-I've got copies if anyone is interested.
In summary, you can't yet say FPP is not relevant, because UFO
researchers have not done the testing to prove it is a false
hypothesis.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Missing fetus syndrome
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:26:00 GMT
Thank you to those who have commented on my recent IUR article on
"implants" and to those who have written for copies of it. As you will
note in a separate message to Sheldon Wernikoff, I am now taking a
look at the missing fetus syndrome-like implants much talked about,
but seemingly with little medical documentation existing. I'd like to
put out a call for any material which people have come across,
particularly documented cases studies. Although i have written some
critical pieces on abductions and continue to push for a proper look
at the FPP hypothesis, I do regard the subject as worthy of
attention-or I wouldn't be spending so much of my time on it.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Anson.Kennedy@p0.f25.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Anson Kennedy)
Subject: Larry King Show
Date: 11 Apr 92 17:52:00 GMT
> Obviously (or should I say "incredibly"), as Klass stated, he had
> not read _Secret Life_, and was not *at all* familiar with your
> position regarding the psychological condition of your subjects.
> In fact, your convictions are actually in direct opposition to
> Klass's indictments.
> Debate is an effective tool only when both factions are well
> acquainted with the topic at hand. Klass was conspicuosly ill-
> prepared, even with his inaccurate notes.
I suspect that Klass was called in at the last minute to present the skeptics'
POV. This happens frequently. I was called to appear opposite some psychics
on a local discussion show. We were told the topic of discussion only the day
before the show aired (it was live), and even then the moderator changed the
topic.
So I don't think it's too surprising that he had not read the book. You might
ask, "Why did he go on anyway then?" Well, he had two choices: to decline to
go on and then have Larry King say, "We invited arch-skeptic Phil Klass to be
on to rebut Dr. Jacobs, but he refused;" or to go ahead and do the show.
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. :-)
--- Anson
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: More Secret Life Questions
Date: 12 Apr 92 06:08:00 GMT
Hi James,
I saw your questions regarding abductees, and have one answer for you.
Jim Speiser, here in AZ, did some work with a female abductee about a
year ago named Lydia. One of the things Lydia mentioned was that when
she saw yellow beams like search lights in her bedroom, she thought,
"What the...?" and reached over on the bedstand for her glasses but was
gone before she could even get to them.
Here next recollection was that of being outside in the night sky,
gently floating upwards to a dark "bell-shaped" object at some distance
above her. She did not feel the cool night air, even though the
abduction happened in April, and April nights in Arizona can be quite
cool.
Hope that helps,
Linda
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From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Re: _Secret Life_ Reviewed
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:00:00 GMT
Linda Bird writes:
> Just curious: what do you think of Bob Girard's (Artcturus
> Books) book reviews? They're always a kick to read, and he
> can be rough on some people.
Exactly. Although it seems that most reviewers of *anything*
have favorite targets that usually get hit pretty hard. I find
his catalog more fun to read than _Saucer Smear_.
> However, his very own book, REVOLT OF THE FREE, was unreadable
> in my opinion. I have it, and couldn't make any sense out of
> it. (I got more out of his review of his own book than I did
> the book itself!!)
Actually, he reviewed (or should I say PREviewed) the book once
or twice before it was available. After it was available, there
was at least one more review. After I read all of those, I
thought : "OK, I get it! Thanks Bob, you just saved me $12!"
-- John
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From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Larry King Show
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:22:00 GMT
Anson Kennedy writes:
> I suspect that Klass was called in at the last minute to
> present the skeptics' POV. This happens frequently.
> * * *
> So I don't think it's too surprising that he had not read
> the book. You might ask, "Why did he go on anyway then?"
> Well, he had two choices: to decline to go on and then
> have Larry King say, "We invited arch-skeptic Phil Klass to
> be on to rebut Dr. Jacobs, but he refused;" or to go ahead
> and do the show.
He also lives in Washington D.C., where Larry does his show.
-- John
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: More Secret Life Questions
Date: 12 Apr 92 14:24:00 GMT
OK, so I couldn't stay away for more than a day or two...at least not yet...
Roger, as Linda has told you, the Lydia case had some interesting sensory
input. Most interesting was the fact that she consciously recalled being in
the "examining room" and not being able to see too clearly. _LATER_, she
recalled hypnotically that she had not been able to reach her glasses before
she was taken from her bedroom; hence the blurry vision.
Jim
--
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Larry King Show
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:49:00 GMT
Hi Sheldon,
I do agree with you that Jacobs handled the interview very well.
Klass, as usual, wore his little "Klass-smirk" throughout.
Linda
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Secret Life - Questions, 2/3
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:13:00 GMT
Hi John,
In a recent series of questions you posed to David Jacobs regarding
abductees, I might be able to shed some light on one of your questions,
"While switched off, don't people get cramped or need to go to the
bathroom?"
About a year ago when Jim Speiser was investigating Lydia, she
mentioned that she needed to use the bathroom, and thinking to herself
(so she thought), she thought, "I have to go to pottie..." At this
point, the Alien to who she was talking, looked surprised and
concerned, and hit some kind of lever at the end of the examination
table. The next thing Lydia knew, she was back in her bedroom in bed
with an need to use the bathroom.
Perhaps Jim has something further to add.
Regards,
Linda
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: ABDUCTIONS
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:42:04 GMT
To answer one of your questions. A fairly good psychological evaluation can
be done in an hour and a half interview. Trained professionals (and trained
non-professionals) with experience can see trends and patterns which indicate
personality traits. I think you can see in your own everyday life, that you
get impressions of people after talking to them for a few minutes. In an
atmosphere of a private office evaluation, much can be determined in a short
period of time.
As an example you can read a message on this echo, from someone who has
written nothing before, and start to get some idea about their viewpoints and
attitudes by the content, vocabulary and methods of reasoning.
Actually in about 45 minutes of constant verbal exchange, one can get the
basic attributes of another person. As for the deep parts, you are of course
correct. One does not need to know the why to know that A person is living in
a world of dillusion, or denial of reality. We can determine by conversation
if someone has compulsive obsessive traits. A "FPP" will show itself just as
well. Although we can choose what we wear, even clothes are an indication in
many people. Add posture, eye movements, and body language... It all adds up
fast.
--
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: OVERWEIGHT?
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:54:25 GMT
Your observation makes me wonder what percentage of the population is
overweight according to the standards? Or to look at it in another way,
overweight compared to who? (whom?) I don't know if this is relevant, but
maybe except for a few "perfect" people and the anorexic club, the US
population is mostly overweight? I speak for my 15 lbs. of spare tire and
enjoyment of eating personally. 8*)
Is the observation that abductees and people who see UFO's appear to be
overweight, a matter of fact, because most people are the same? Or to try to
state it more clearly, if 80% of the population is overweight, then we could
expect 80% of the people who observe UFo's to also be the same?
If the body type falls out of the normal distribution, then it might point
to something. Just for thought since I don't know the answer.
As long as I running with the fingers today. I believe there was something
here, that passed me by. But I wonder what percentage of abductee's are
products of abusive enviroments. (physical, verbal or mental are options)
Abuse is not limited to physical when one see's similar bahavior patterns
emerging from all of the above.
--
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: _Secret Life_ Reviewed
Date: 14 Apr 92 04:05:00 GMT
Hi John,
You know what REVOLT OF THE FREE is about?! Please tell me as I
haven't a clue! Does it have something to do with population control,
and how do aliens or UFO's fit in?
Waiting, and thanks,
Linda
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From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Re: _Secret Life_ Reviewed
Date: 15 Apr 92 07:10:00 GMT
Linda Bird writes:
> You know what REVOLT OF THE FREE is about?! Please tell me
> as I haven't a clue! Does it have something to do with
> population control, and how do aliens or UFO's fit in?
I should again point out that my knowledge about this book is
limited to what Bob Girrard has discussed in his catalog . . .
He estimates that 9,999 out of every 10,000 people are
dysfunctional, brain-dead zombies who rely on religions,
governments and space brothers to solve all of their problems.
As a result of this displaced confidence, we are rapidly headed
toward apocalypse, with things like AIDS, TB and starvation
killing off large chunks of the world's population.
His "solution" (not unlike the old "Final Solution") is that the
"free" (those who are not bound up by co-dependant belief systems
such as religion, reliance upon space brothers for salvation,
etc.) should revolt and re-create the human species, using a
handful of carefully-chosen, highly-motivated humans which will
be known as the "Core Humanity". (Sounds a bit like the "Master
Race", doesn't it?) Worse yet, Bob points out that "since no
humans will likely VOLUNTEER their own elimination on behalf of
the `greater good', a revolution will most likely be needed to
accomplish such a program". I hate to speculate on how such a
program would be accomplished, since the only thing that comes to
mind is gas-emitting shower heads. I wonder why?
-- John
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: I'm back once again.
Date: 15 Apr 92 06:46:29 GMT
I'm sorry to have not posted recently, but I have been swamped with
work and with media appearances in connection with my book. I just want to
assure my friends and colleagues that I will try to get to most of their
questions soon (although there was a three-pager that I am not sure I will be
able to handle).
Here are a few random points that I picked up on after quickly reviewing
the messages to me. Because psychiatrists and psychologists do not often have
patients presenting with abduction accounts must be considered in light of
various factors. First, most abductees do not know themselves that they have
been the victims of abductions. Rather, they have been the subject of
numerous bizarre and extraordinary events for which the society provides a
menu of explanations. They may have had unwanted and unexpected out of body
experiences. They may have seen a ghost or a deceased relative standing by
their bed. They may have woken up in the middle of the night paralyzed and
seen a monster when they were an adult. They may have had missing time
experiences that they simply chalked up to "road hypnosis" or some such thing.
Needless to say, the therapist is not going to recognize the potential of
these experiences to be anything other than psychological abberations.
Second, many, many abductees have gone to therapists with abduction
accounts consciously remembered. Many of these tell their therapist what has
happened to them. They receive too explanations: The accounts are delusional
and the person must be made to recognize the events in their life that led to
these delusions; and they have been the subject of protracted and cruel sexual
abuse as a child and the abduction accounts are simply screen memories for
their abuse. We have had many abductees come forward with these stories.
Third, we have also heard that many abductees, for various reasons, will
not tell their therapist what has happened to them. Some they feel guilty if
they talk about it, for others it might make them seem to crazy even for the
therapist, and so forth.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
--
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: I'm back again (2)
Date: 15 Apr 92 07:15:18 GMT
Sorry, I inadvertently saved the last message while trying to edit it. I
will try to pick up where I left off.
Fourth, a number of therapists have referred abductees to Budd and to me.
They recognize that the abduction material is something that they have never
heard before and that is not internally generated. They are in a minority, to
be sure, but there numbers are growing.
furthermore, we have made significant inroads into the therapeutic community
for help and support. It is not the physicists or the astronomers who have
begun to understand the seriousness of the situations, it is the therapists.
They know that this is something that they have never encountered before and
that it is beyond their expertise to handle.
Fifth, we have a number of therapists, (psychologists, psychiatrists, and
psychiatric social workers) who have come forward with abduction accounts of
their own. I think that the total is about 12-15 now. Thus, I am somewhat
puzzled why Mark Rodeghier would state that he talked to a psychiatrist who had
never had an abductee talking about his abductions--as if this had some sort
of significance for the existence of the abductions themselves.
Re: Overweight people. Although it is possible that the abduction
phenomenon might make people overeat because of stress, etc., it is just as
possible that they might lose weight for the same reason. The people I have
seen run the gamut from fat to skinny and I believe that Budd's population
does as well. I really do not see this as a pattern that we ought to turn
our attention to--there are more important things to consider first.
Re: fantasy prone personalities. I repeat, this is a nonstarter. I
don't want to get into a heavy discourse about this theory. It is based on
the idea that abductions are internally generated. The parameters of FPP are
controversial as is even the existence of it as a separate psychiatric
condition (I think). "Measuring" it obviously is going to present us with a
myriad of difficulties in interpretation and meaning. Given this, Kenneth Ring
found in his Omega study that fantasy prone personalities did not play a role
in the generation of abduction accounts. I believe that CUFOS found that most
abductees that they studies were not fantasy prone (I am going on word of
mouth here). Neither Budd Hopkins nor I have found any evidence whatsoever
for fantasy prone individuals to be generating abduction accounts. As far as
I know, John Mack has found no evidence for abductions being caused by fantasy
prone people, and so on.
I really do think that chasing after the fantasy prone personality
hypothesis is an exercise in futility and wheel spinning. But if people what
to spend their time and energy doing this, then I guess I can't persuade them
otherwise. I would liek to see intelligent people use their talents in more
productive research on the accounts themselves.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: _Secret Life_ Reviewed
Date: 15 Apr 92 06:34:00 GMT
Yikes, John!
You put it so well, that even if Girard had never written such a book,
one could argue that the premise could be true, yet frightening! All
one has to do is take a look at some of the brain dead students and
administrators at my school and wonder...
Will be going to a new school with new principal next year, but the
same old kids (and their parents) will be tagging right along.
So now that I'm off-topic...However, I have wondered about these folks
and wonder what they would make of an abduction. The area where I work
is poor, mostly Hispanic, and Catholic. I wonder if there would be
anyone around to "catch on" that an abduction had taken place.
Any comments?
Linda
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Abduction Digest, Number 58
Thursday, April 23rd 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Ellen Crystall
Implants Are Real--Get Yours Today!
Research
Ellen Crystall
Secret Life - Questions, 2/3
I'm back once again.
Ellen Crystall
Re: Secret Life - Questions, 2/3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Ellen Crystall
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:14:00 GMT
> Crystall speculates that aliens avoid being photographed clearly by
> surrounding their craft with shortwave radiation that interferes
> with the emulsion of photographic film.
Ahem....IMHO anyone who'd make such a statement hasn't a clue.
jbh
--
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From: ns-mx.uiowa.edu!jrblack
Subject: Implants Are Real--Get Yours Today!
Date: 18 Apr 92 00:12:37 GMT
From: James Roger Black <jrblack@ns-mx.uiowa.edu>
In an article in talk.politics.misc on Usenet News, dated 2 Apr 92,
Jim Mason (jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu), writes:
|> Chanced upon an episode of that Australian TV show 'Beyond 2000' last night
|> on TDC. I arrived at the tail end of a story about a device called
|> 'KIDSCAN'. This appears to be an adaptation of a lab-animal ID tag that
|> is regularly advertized in the weekly science journals like 'AAAS SCIENCE'
|> and 'NATURE'. What you have is a tiny glass capsule containing a passive
|> radio re-transmitter designed to be injected directly under the skin of
|> the animal. These things are very tiny - looks like maybe 0.75x2.0 mm.
|> They are designed to derive energy from an RF field and then re-transmit
|> at another frequency. The transmission contains a multi-digit ID code that
|> allows each animal to be positively identified.
|>
|> KIDSCAN is the same principal ... but is being sold as something you have
|> implanted into your children - for their health and safety according to
|> the seller. These versions appear to be a little larger and can transmit
|> for a several block radius.
So there you have it: tracking-implant technology for the masses. If
this kind of stuff is being advertised in science magazines, just
imagine what the black-budget folks must have come up with by now.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Black roger-black@uiowa.edu
Disclaimer: My employer doesn't even know I have any opinions.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Research
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:50:00 GMT
In a previous message Roger Black asked an interesting point re the
ability of someone who uses either spectacles or contact lenses, to
see during an abduction. This issue raised itself with me during an
interview with an Australian woman who was experiencing "apparitions".
During the interview she wore spectacles and commented that without
them she was not able to see clearly at other than short distances.
However, awakening during the night, to observe an "apparition" in her
bedroom she noted that she could observe every detail extremely
clearly. This clarity was not consistent with her normal vision. In
abduction research does anyone know the answer to Roger's question? If
not, it is a point worth checking next time you interview an abductee.
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Ellen Crystall
Date: 18 Apr 92 18:49:00 GMT
In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <16 Apr 92 14:14> John Hicks wrote:
>> Crystall speculates that aliens avoid being photographed clearly by
>> surrounding their craft with shortwave radiation that interferes
>> with the emulsion of photographic film.
JH> Ahem....IMHO anyone who'd make such a statement hasn't a clue.
A localized time shift could shift light from a UFO into IR or UV, or even make
it invisible. But if that's what they're up to, they probably aren't doing it
to waste folks' FotoMat dollars... :-)
Best,
Clark
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From: John.Powell@p5.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Secret Life - Questions, 2/3
Date: 18 Apr 92 22:38:58 GMT
In a message to John Powell <12 Apr 92 16:13> Linda Bird wrote:
LB> Hi John,
How are ya Linda!? Things sure have been strange around here lately. If I
didn't know better I'd swear that it was my turn to be under the microscope...
LB> ...one of your questions, "While switched off, don't people get cramped
LB> or need to go to the bathroom?"
(Seems I really bombarded him... His book answered a number of questions I've
had for awhile but it also crystalized a number of other questions that I've
been ruminating on...) The question above is representative of the general
'Switched Off' aspect of the phenomenon that concerns me.
LB> About a year ago when Jim Speiser was investigating Lydia, she
LB> mentioned that she needed to use the bathroom, and thinking to herself
LB> (so she thought), she thought, "I have to go to pottie..." At
LB> this point, the Alien to who she was talking, looked surprised
LB> and concerned, and hit some kind of lever at the end of the
LB> examination table. The next thing Lydia knew, she was back in
LB> her bedroom in bed with a need to use the bathroom.
Interesting. I gather Lydia was a child... Why did you say "(so she thought)" ,
are there indications that this was a generated response/action as some sort of
test?
I think I've read a few accounts where the switched off people were also
monitired by "guards", (I think this is mentioned in Fowler's work?), but it
doesn't seem to be SOP. Which seems _very_ inconsistent with the other secrecy
aspects of the Abduction Scenario. I would think that leaving a group of
switched off people unattended would be incredibly risky...
LB> Perhaps Jim has something further to add.
I hope so...
Thanks, take care.
John.
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From: John.Powell@p5.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: I'm back once again.
Date: 19 Apr 92 19:28:39 GMT
In a message to All Users <14 Apr 92 23:46> David Jacobs wrote:
DJ> I just want to assure my friends and colleagues that I will try
DJ> to get to most of their questions soon (although there was a
DJ> three-pager that I am not sure I will be able to handle).
Sorry about the 3-pager. I thought I'd just get everything out all at once
while it was fresh... Please don't feel that you need to personally, or even
point by point, answer. I'm sure the bulk of items will come up for
discussion here over time anyway.
Thanks, take care.
John.
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From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Ellen Crystall
Date: 22 Apr 92 08:12:00 GMT
John Hicks writes:
> > Crystall speculates that aliens avoid being photographed clearly by
> > surrounding their craft with shortwave radiation that interferes
> > with the emulsion of photographic film.
>
> Ahem....IMHO anyone who'd make such a statement hasn't a
> clue.
>
> jbh
In her book, Ellen Crystall indicates that her definition of
"shortwave radiation" includes X-rays and gamma rays. She
believes that use of a camera with a plastic lens instead of a
glass lens can help overcome this problem. Does this make sense
from the photographic standpoint?
I've finally seen a copy of her book although I haven't had time
to read it yet. It's too bad that the pictures are printed in
black and white. I've seen them in color and they look a little
more impressive, particularly the photograph which is reprinted
in the book (I believe) as photo #13. As far as the photos that
are said to depict aliens go ... I think that a person who was
not a witness to the actual event would almost have to be
tripping in order to see the aliens in the pictures. I think Bob
Girard hit this book awfully hard because so much of what was
discussed was based more on *belief* than detached observation.
This is the problem when a book is written by a percipient rather
than an investigator with no first-hand witnessing experience.
Although Ellen emphasizes that she has never been abducted, she
does claim a good bit of experience with CE I's thru III's with
"humanoid sightings". Compare the balls of light that she
referrs to as "Tesla fields" to the balls of light in the Russian
photographs which appear in Jaques Vallee's new (too tiny for
$18) book on Russian ufology. They might be something more than
artifacts of the photographic process. Whaddaya think?
-- John
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Secret Life - Questions, 2/3
Date: 23 Apr 92 03:44:00 GMT
Hi John,
Under the microscope instead of the weather, huh? Hehehe
Well, Lydia said she was having a mental conversation with the aliens,
that suddenly she could "hear" their thoughts in her head, and she
answered back with a thought. But when she was thinking to HERSELF,
"Gee, I have to go to pottie..." she thought this was a private thought
that the aliens wouldn't be able to pick up on. Sort of like pressing
the "mute" button on a remote control TV gadget. Instead, the alien
DID pick up on the thought! He got her out of there, perhaps afraid
she would make a mess.
I remember reading the account of the South American youth, somebody
Boas, I think, who was plowing in his field when he was abducted by
Aliens. He was there for the purpose of being seduced by an exotic
female alien, but before she appeared, some odd-smelling gas was
emitted into his compartment on the craft. He said that it made him
sick, and he vomitted in a corner. So, perhaps aliens are tired of
cleaning up after human messes.
Lydia was an adult when this experience occurred.
Take care!
Linda Bird
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Abduction Digest, Number 59
Wednesday, April 29th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Re: Thursday TV Program
Re: Thursday TV Program
Budd Hopkins
Ellen Crystall
Budd Hopkins
Re: Secret Life - Questio
Scott Corder MD
Re: Thursday Tv Program
KOA Weird Night appearance
Re: Secret Life - Questio
Re: Scott Corder MD
malpractice
Re: Abduction Detection
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Thursday TV Program
Date: 24 Apr 92 04:38:00 GMT
In a message to A L L <04-20-92 21:22> Linda Bird wrote:
LB> I understand that the early evening program "Hard Copy" (NBC)
LB> will feature a story/stories on UFO abductions and abductees telling
Are you sure it wasn't "A Current Affair"? If so, ya didn't miss much if you
missed it. They sandwiched in a fairly credible segment on abductions
between the Gulf Breeze flare balloons and Scott Corder, of all people. (By
the way, Mike Corbin, were you aware that he got his medical licence back??)
Jim
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Thursday TV Program
Date: 24 Apr 92 05:17:00 GMT
Hi Jim,
Just watched the tape of the UFO show on "A current Affair" -- you
were right! Anyway I got the tape correct.
Lots of Gulf Breeze; Uncle Phil was there; I almost forgot who Steve
Corder was until I remembered he was tied into Donna somebody; Jim, you
think those asre flare balloons? As good an explanation as any...they
forgot cattle mutes.
See ya,
Linda
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Budd Hopkins
Date: 21 Apr 92 06:37:48 GMT
Budd Hopkins had a surgical procedure last week in New York and it went
extremely well. He can anticipate no more problems and will lead a healthy
life (hopefully). He is home now and on the mend. Although it threw a scare
into all of us close to him, the best possible outcome came from a serious
situation. We are all relieved and Budd will resume his schedule in a few
weeks.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Ellen Crystall
Date: 22 Apr 92 04:43:00 GMT
> A localized time shift could shift light from a UFO into IR or UV, or
> even make it invisible.
Well, ok....you know much more about that than I do...but that's still not
what she said. Haven't come across the book yet.
> But if that's what they're up to, they probably
> aren't doing it to waste folks' FotoMat dollars... :-)
Yeah, I'll buy that.
jbh
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Budd Hopkins
Date: 24 Apr 92 15:09:00 GMT
> Budd Hopkins had a surgical procedure last week in New York and it
> went extremely well. He can anticipate no more problems and will lead a
> healthy life (hopefully). He is home now and on the mend. Although it
> threw a scare into all of us close to him, the best possible outcome
> came from a serious situation. We are all relieved and Budd will
> resume his schedule in a few weeks.
Perhaps you could elaborate a little more on what happened with Budd. No one
on the network is aware that he was ill.
Thanks,
Mike
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From: John.Powell@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Re: Secret Life - Questio
Date: 25 Apr 92 09:15:00 GMT
In a message to John Powell <22 Apr 92 20:44> Linda Bird wrote:
LB> Under the microscope instead of the weather, huh? Hehehe
How are ya Linda. Yeah, the recent past here has been nothing short of
baffling. It seems that "Officialdom" has coagulated around me... Fortunately,
I'm not an overly paranoid person...
LB> But when she was thinking to HERSELF, "Gee, I have to go to pottie..."
LB> she thought this was a private thought that the aliens wouldn't be able
LB> to pick up on. Sort of like pressing the "mute" button on a remote
LB> control TV gadget. Instead, the alien DID pick up on the thought! He
LB> got her out of there, perhaps afraid she would make a mess.
LB> Lydia was an adult when this experience occurred.
Why would an adult think "pottie"? Don't you think that's an unusual choice of
words/expression? (How did she determine it was a "he"?) Why would they be
worried about such a mess?
I love these kind of examples because lately I've been forcing myself to
specifically concentrate on two possibilities: 1) Abductions occur strictly in
the mind, they have no objective reality, they have no physical reality, they
are a self-created illus
I haven't begun to understand all the elements associated with #2 above, (and
I've allowed myself #1 simply to serve as the whipping boy), but there are at
least two areas that interest me.
First, there is the large area called Stigmata, (which Jacobs should have done
more on, IMHO). It is not enough to acknowledge that stigmata exists, which it
does, and then dismiss it solely because we don't understand how it could
possibly account for t(his.) It is not enough to explain Christian-related
blood myths as stigmatic responses and close the book. The _mind_ caused those
experiences, that much is documented. Shall we assume that the mind is,
somehow, therefore incapable of a non-Christian stigmati
Second, there is this area called 'phantom pain', usually associated with
phantom limbs. An amputee can 'feel' the missing limb, feel heat or cold or
touch, etc. Additionally, when a spot on a phantom limb 'itches' it can be
'scratched' and the 'itch' w
"...neuromatrix, or network of neurons, that, in addition to responding to
sensory stimulation, continuously generates a characteristic pattern of
impulses indicating that the body is intact and unequivocally one's own."
"The brain does more than detect and analyze inputs; it generates perceptual
experience even when no external inputs occur. We do not need a body to feel
a body."
"Phantoms [sensory experience from phantom limbs] become comprehensible once we
recognize that the brain generates the experience of the body. Sensory inputs
merely modulate that experience; they do not directly cause it."
- Phantom Limbs, Ronald Melzack, Ph.D, Professor of Psychology, Scientific
American, April, 1992.
The mind maintains a template of itself, of a conceived self, and it's form.
Removing a portion of the form does not alter the original template - the
template exists, in at least a near-complete form, prior to the existance of
the form itself.
If the _mind_ is abducted, (and I have no idea what that experience would be
like nor do I think does anyone who hasn't experienced it; and given this
proposed scenario I feel that conventional hypnotic regression techniques are
_fully incapable_ of revea
(If the mind was abducted then the abductor might return it to it's body
before it wet the bed to avoid detection...???)
Thanks, take care.
John.
* X R S * Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence
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From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Scott Corder MD
Date: 25 Apr 92 19:42:02 GMT
* In a message originally to Linda Bird, Jim Speiser said:
>Are you sure it wasn't "A Current Affair"? If so, ya didn't
>miss much if you missed it. They sandwiched in a fairly
>credible segment on abductions between the Gulf Breeze flare
>balloons and Scott Corder, of all people. (By the way, Mike
>Corbin, were you aware that he got his medical licence back??)
Hi Jim,
You saw the show, then? I saw a teaser for it but couldn't
watch the program. I'm interested in the Corder situation (OMNI
story I did) and didn't know he had his license back -- is this
firm, not a gonna but a done? I'd love to hear anything you recall
from that segment. Thanks for the note (above) mentioning it which
allowed me to learn about this interesting detail!
==Peggy==
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From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Re: Thursday Tv Program
Date: 25 Apr 92 19:46:03 GMT
* In a message originally to Jim Speiser, Linda Bird said:
>Hi Jim,
>
>Just watched the tape of the UFO show on "A current Affair" --
>you were right! Anyway I got the tape correct.
>
>Lots of Gulf Breeze; Uncle Phil was there; I almost forgot who
>Steve Corder was until I remembered he was tied into Donna
>somebody; Jim, you think those asre flare balloons? As good an
>explanation as any...they forgot cattle mutes.
Hi Linda,
You have a tape of the program? Any chance I could borrow it for a
week and return it? I would be glad to pay full postage and copy
price for tape or send you something else if you'd rather. I have
read the book that Corder and Donna/"Ruth" Butts wrote...it's a
strange story.
Thanks for mentioning the program. (Wish I'd been able to see your
announcement mssg sooner! That'll teach me to fail to call in
daily! <g>)
==Peggy==
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From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: KOA Weird Night appearance
Date: 25 Apr 92 19:59:04 GMT
Hello David,
I was so impressed by your excellent presentation on last
week's (4/24/92) "Weird Night" on KOA Radio -- you did a great job
of conveying information quickly and without extraneous detail and
of relating that information in an entertaining and enlightening
way. It was a great program and I'm sure Rick Barber (host) enjoyed
what you had to say as much as his listeners, including myself, did.
Many of the issues you pointed out made me see the abductee
situation in a new light. Particularly impressive to me were two
points you raised: 1) the missing people really are physically
missing, based on searches and family members reporting the missing
to police, and 2) the similarity of all reports of examination,
whether the reporting person is an adult or small child (adults
might have common background of having read/seen/heard such
descriptions and absorbed them into confabultion but it's extremely
unlikely that children could've done so.) The most outstanding
point, though, was the lack of explanation offered by abductees. I
had not thought of that before -- that it would be the first thing a
confabulator or otherwise in-error person reporting abduction would
do, but these people who appear to actually be abductees have not
created or found any answer to the "why are they here" or "why are
they doing this" questions because they don't know the answers. It
makes perfect sense that someone who would create the story of his
own abduction for whatever reason would also create a response to
fill that gap.
In fact, the interesting points you brought up on the Weird
Night program and the comments and supporting evidence you added
have convinced me that I must now read your book.
Thank you!
==Peggy=
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Secret Life - Questio
Date: 26 Apr 92 06:33:00 GMT
Hi John,
I don't know why aliens would be afraid of a mess, unless they have
cleaned up a bunch of messes. Remember the South American man (I
recall the words "Villa Boas" for some reason) I mentioned earlier who
said he threw up while aboard the spacecraft. I seem to recall
some-thing I saw in OMNI within the last year about people who said
they had thrown up while abducted. I can look for that article later
in the week...
I recall Budd Hopkins talking about mind abductions while I attended
the Pensacola MUFON Conference in July 1990. While the aliens may be
playing mind games, for some it is all too real, so it seems.
Regards,
Linda
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Scott Corder MD
Date: 26 Apr 92 23:18:00 GMT
Hi Peggy:
PN> Hi Jim,
PN> You saw the show, then? I saw a teaser for it but couldn't
PN> watch the program. I'm interested in the Corder situation (OMNI
PN> story I did) and didn't know he had his license back -- is this firm,
PN> not a gonna but a done? I'd love to hear anything you recall from
According to the program, it's a fait accompli. I'm not sure what reason was
given for lifting it in the first place, does anyone know? Anyway, Corder
was among the strangest of the strange. I didn't know you wrote the OMNI
article about him, I would have provided you with my Corder file, which is
about an inch thick with correspondence from him, all showing one man's
gradual descent into total insanity.
The only good segment on that program was the abductions and the interview
with Jacobs. Unfortunately, that was sandwiched between the Gulf Breeze
lights and Corder. The Gulf Breeze lights are almost surely balloon-borne
road flares. A Current Affair made a big deal about catching the things on
camera and having zero explanation, yet the first thing I thought of was
"road flare." The things burned an incandescent, sparkly red for a while,
then flashed white and winked out - EXACTLY what a road flare would do.
Here's the unfortunate thing: A Current Affair used to make fun of UFOs.
While its good to see such a program change its mind, its terrible if it
happens for the wrong reason. When and If the GB flare UFOs are ever
exposed, ACA will have its face covered with indelible egg, and will
probably vow, "We won't get fooled again." After that point, a landing in
St. Peter's Square on live satellite TV wouldn't impress them.
Jim
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From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: malpractice
Date: 27 Apr 92 15:33:02 GMT
Hello David,
I am interested in learning how you and the therapists that you
work with protect yourselves against potential malpractice suits
that may arise from "discontented" subjects.
This insurance consideration seems to be a significant research
roadblock for many professionals, who fear possible reprisals from
individuals for therapy conducted outside of the conventional
clinic scenario.
Regards,
Sheldon
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From: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Davis)
Subject: Re: Abduction Detection
Date: 29 Apr 92 00:18:00 GMT
Point well made. But, how does such an object disappear? Does
someone (or thing) remove it, or does it molecularly come apart? For
obvious scientific reasons, there is a bit of a problem with the latter
explanation.
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Abduction Digest, Number 60
Monday, May 4th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Re: malpractice
Ellen Crystall
Stuff
UFO Dream
Budd Hopkins
KOA program
Re: UFO Dream
Secret Life
Abduction Detection
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: malpractice
Date: 29 Apr 92 21:55:00 GMT
Sheldon:
I'm interested in hearing David's response as well, but I have a few
thoughts on that subject. My own personal feeling is that abductionists
should always recommend psychiatric counseling to their subjects from the
outset - but should stress that such recommendation is for the purpose of
PTSD or EAT therapy only and not (necessarily) for the treatment of some
perceived psychosis. A disclaimer should be signed, and thereafter if the
patient balks at the recommendation it becomes his/her problem (from a legal
standpoint).
>From the standpoint of the licensed practitioners, on the other hand, who
might charge abductionists with practicing medicine without a licence, I
feel such charges are unwarranted. First, most states do not require a
license for "counseling", and as long as the abduction therapy is conducted
strictly within this context, I don't see a conflict. Second, if counseling
abduction victims is considered "medicine", it might be incumbent upon
mental health professionals to show where Abduction Syndrome is a "disease."
THAT could prove interesting....
Jim
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Ellen Crystall
Date: 26 Apr 92 20:23:00 GMT
> She believes that use of a
> camera with a plastic lens instead of a glass lens can help overcome
> this problem. Does this make sense from the photographic standpoint?
No, none at all. Actually an inexpensive plastic lens might tend to produce
more flare, which could show up in the images as bright blobs.
> I've finally seen a copy of her book although I haven't had time to read
> it yet. It's too bad that the pictures are printed in black and white.
> I've seen them in color and they look a little more impressive,
> particularly the photograph which is reprinted in the book (I believe)
> as photo #13.
I've been looking for the book but haven't seen it yet.
> I think Bob Girard hit this book awfully hard because so much
> of what was discussed was based more on *belief* than detached
> observation.
Yes, that has to be considered a serious flaw.
> Compare the balls of light that she referrs to as "Tesla
> fields" to the balls of light in the Russian photographs which appear in
> Jaques Vallee's new (too tiny for $18) book on Russian ufology. They
> might be something more than artifacts of the photographic process.
> Whaddaya think?
Seems that there's been a run on OBOLs (orange balls of light) lately.
I'll keep looking for her book.
jbh
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Stuff
Date: 26 Apr 92 20:25:01 GMT
> According to Bryon the BBS where he got UFO stopped getting it, I think he
> said it was to reduce LD costs.
His echomail hub arbitrarily cut off the echo!? Bryon could probably get it
directly from his REC.
jbh
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: UFO Dream
Date: 29 Apr 92 06:08:00 GMT
* Forwarded from "UFO"
* Originally by Lynn Parham
* Originally to All
* Originally dated 27 Apr 1992, 14:55
The following is forwarded from Fido UFO. I've suggested to Lynn that she
and/or her coworker contact you here.
jbh
My co-worker S.W. observed a UFO a year or so ago. She later had a series
of nightmares which gradually faded. Recently she had the following dream
which seemed quite realistic and disturbing.
I knew something was wrong. Instinctively I ran to one of windows looking
out on the backyard. An intense panicky feeling overtook me as I saw the huge
dark metal disk hovering outside. There was no sound and no lights. Fear was
over powering and my mind began to race. I turned away from the window and
began to run from the room into the hallway. I thought if I could reach the
front door and could get outside, I would be safe. For some unknown reason I
knew deep inside my efforts were futile. No sooner had I stepped into the
hallway then I felt my body began to slow down. My steps were quickly becoming
labored, my movements slow and awkward. The panicky feeling was slipping away
and my breathing began to slow. I stood in the dark hallway, finding myself
needing to lean back against the wall. Just standing was becoming a difficult
task in itself and against my will, my legs gave out and I slid slowly down to
the floor. My arms fell limp against my side, even my head felt heavy, so
heavy that when I heard the rustling of other bodies around me, I could not
look up. I simply stared at my legs outstretched in front of me. I was aware
that several of them were standing around me, others moving about the dark
house. There was no fear anymore, I could hardly feel anything. One of them
bent down next to me and laid out several things beside her. I somehow knew it
was a female even though I could not move and lift my head to see. She took my
left arm in her hand and I watched as another hand handed her a syringe. As
terrified of needles as I am, I wanted to cry out, but my mouth wouldn't
worked. I watched in horror as the needle penetrated the back of my wrist.
Surprisingly there was no pain, not even a prick. For some reason this
fascinated me. I felt another hand on me, reaching for my hair. The one who
had taken my blood, asked me if I was still taking the medicine. This confused
me somewhat. I couldn't remember taking anything, but strangely I tried to say
yes. I couldn't open my mouth, but I heard her say "Good"
There were a few more details of an intimate nature that S.W. did not wish
to reveal. She woke up before the exam was complete. She later examined her
wrist but saw no evidence of a needle insertion. Any comments?
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Budd Hopkins
Date: 29 Apr 92 06:56:35 GMT
Budd Hopkins had a kidney problem that was corrected with surgery. A
potentially difficult situation was caught in time and there are no residual
effects. Everything is now all right and no other therapeutic regimins are
indicated. We all held our breath and then breathed a sigh of relief.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: KOA program
Date: 29 Apr 92 07:00:05 GMT
Peggy, thank you for your kind words about my talk on the KOA program. As
I remember, that show was on at 4:00 a.m. Denver time. It was hard to imagine
that anybody would be listening at that time. It was difficult enough for me
to get up at 6:00 a.m. to do the show. The best thing about the show for me
was that Barber let me ramble on for much longer periods of time than do most
interviewers. Therefore, I could pick up a head of steam a little. Anyway,
thanks much.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: UFO Dream
Date: 3 May 92 03:40:00 GMT
Hi John,
What a frightening "dream!" I would like to see David Jacob's comment
on realistic dreams, having had a few myself (but nothing as scary as
your friend, John).
Did she describe what parts of these creatures she DID see? Did their
hands look human or otherwise. Did she hear the creature speak with
her ears or in her head?
Keep us posted of further details, if possible.
Linda
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill.Skiles@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Skiles)
Subject: Secret Life
Date: 2 May 92 21:05:00 GMT
David, I just finished reading Secret Life and wanted to say that you
did a good job in presenting the facts that you have gleaned from your
research. It did not appear that you were leading people toward any
direction of personal bais only presenting the facts. Good job. Now, I
want to ask you something.
If the guy that got drunk was able to resist the greys mind control
and dance around the room. Doesn't that suggest that some kind of
medication could help to resist these things?
What about learning hypnosis as a means of fighting their mind control,
would this help?
You said that you had little data on men that have been abducted after
having had vasectomy's but that women have been abducted even after
having had hystorectomy's. Just to give you one more little piece of
information. I have had numerous sightings (in the sky) since I was a
kid, and you know my most recent experience. I had a vasectomy 15 years
ago.
Finally, I noticed that you have a support group going for abductees,
what is available here in Central Florida?
I'm still hanging out here in no man's land.
Bill
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction Detection
Date: 3 May 92 06:51:00 GMT
> Point well made. But, how does such an object disappear? Does
> someone (or thing) remove it, or does it molecularly come apart?
Not a clue, although I'd have a hard time with the molecular..er..dissolution
idea.
jbh
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Abduction Digest, Number 61
Monday, May 11th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Re: KOA Weird Night appearance
Re: Secret Life - Questio
Re: Scott Corder Md
Koa Program
Re: Koa Weird Night Appearance
Re: UFO Dream
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Re: KOA Weird Night appearance
Date: 4 May 92 07:46:00 GMT
-=> Quoting Peggy Noonan to David Jacobs <=-
PN> 1) the missing people really are physically missing, based on
PN> searches and family members reporting the missing to police...
I think I remember this being a very small percentage of the total
cases. If you come across this section in Jacob's book then please
correct me if I'm wrong. (I bet it is less than 10%.))
Thanks, John.
.. Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Re: Secret Life - Questio
Date: 4 May 92 07:46:00 GMT
-=> Quoting Linda Bird to John Powell <=-
LB> I don't know why aliens would be afraid of a mess, unless they have
LB> cleaned up a bunch of messes.
Well... If (just suppose) it is the mind that is abducted and the
unattended body left behind. Then rushing the abductee back to the body
prior to them wetting themselves would preserve the continuity of the
amnesia (or screen memory, or even actual memory). On the other hand,
waking up with missing time is kind of a nothing thing compared to
waking up in a puddle!
LB> I recall Budd Hopkins talking about mind abductions while I attended
LB> the Pensacola MUFON Conference in July 1990. While the aliens may be
LB> playing mind games, for some it is all too real, so it seems.
I think next year's MUFON Convention is going to be in Virginia! I'll
actually be able to attend.
The way I'm forcing myself to look at it right now is that it is perfectly
and completely real to be abucted in mind only. (I'm assuming, for
purposes of debate with myself, that there actually is a 'thing' called
'mind' and that therefore a duality exists with respect to the
phenomenon of consciousness and the physical body.) I also think it is
safe to say that most people, certainly myself included, are completely
unaware of this possible duality, completely unaware of the sensations
or perceptions associated with the possible experience of detaching the
'mind entity' from the 'body entity', and therefore (especially if the
detaching process was externally initiated) might not even know that all
subsequent perceptions and sensations were actually being filtered
through a mind-generated template of the physical body and not through
the physical central nervous system.
(That probably made absolutely no sense...<grin> I'm having a hard time
articulating these thoughts...)
I think my last message was incomplete, think it got grunged in the
conversion from XRS to QWK...
Anyway, the stigmatic phenomenon [SP] is documented. The phantom limb pain
phenomenon [PLPP] is documented. So, with SP we have the mind's ability
to cause all number of odd physical effects on the body purely by
thought initiation, and with PLPP we have the documented mind-generated
template of a body. So... ==> If _something_ is toying with the
template, but the mind isn't aware of that, perhaps it would kick in the
SP automatically thus creating some odd physical markings...
Maybe this helps explain why implants as of yet do not exist... (It
would _easily_ explain the floating-thru-window and invisibility
problems... Ditto for telepathy...)
This would completely change the meaning of the Staring Procedures as
described by Jacobs.
I don't necessarily believe this but I find it interesting...
Thanks, John.
.. Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Re: Scott Corder Md
Date: 7 May 92 23:27:01 GMT
>anyone know? Anyway, Corder was among the strangest of the
>strange. I didn't know you wrote the OMNI article about him, I
>would have provided you with my Corder file, which is about an
>inch thick with correspondence from him, all showing one man's
>gradual descent into total insanity.
>The only good segment on that program was the abductions and
>the interview with Jacobs. Unfortunately, that was sandwiched
>between the Gulf Breeze lights and Corder. The Gulf Breeze
>lights are almost surely balloon-borne road flares. A Current
>having zero explanation, yet the first thing I thought of was
>"road flare." The things burned an incandescent, sparkly red
>for a while, then flashed white and winked out - EXACTLY what a
>road flare would do. Here's the unfortunate thing: A Current
Hi Jim,
Sorry to be so long sending a reply -- hubby has taken off work
and we've been going bonkers with redecorating (he does the outside,
I'm painting the inside ... making covers for furniture, getting rid
of about a boxcar load of packrat's junk [I'm the packrat so no one
else to blame but me] and so on.)
My Omni story on Corder never was published and I'm going to be
talking to the ed. about updating it, so I would indeed be very
interested in any file info you had on it if you'd still care to
share it. May I reimburse you photocopy/postage fees? I did talk
to the medical board guy about why they'd jerked his licence but off
the top of my head, I don't recall his reply...will have to check
the file for you.
Thanks for the great info!
And on the road flare UFOs, that's a pity. At least they are
considering UFOs, but it's more mud on the image than clarity.
Thanks, again!
==Peggy
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Koa Program
Date: 7 May 92 23:29:02 GMT
> Peggy, thank you for your kind words about my talk on the
>KOA program. As I remember, that show was on at 4:00 a.m.
>Denver time. It was hard to imagine that anybody would be
>listening at that time. It was difficult enough for me to get
>up at 6:00 a.m. to do the show. The best thing about the show
>for me was that Barber let me ramble on for much longer
>periods of time than do most interviewers. Therefore, I could
>pick up a head of steam a little. Anyway, thanks much.
> Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1
'ramble on'? Only people who have little substantive to say
'ramble' -- your talk was absolutely fascinating. I thoroughly
enjoyed all of it and wished it could last longer. Perhaps Rick can
have you on the show again?
(BTW, that's one of the things I admire about the way he conducts
the program--he actually lets people ANSWER questions and explain
their positions, unlike many program hosts.)
Thank you, again, for such an enlightening presentation.
==Peggy==
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Re: Koa Weird Night Appearance
Date: 7 May 92 23:34:03 GMT
> -=> Quoting Peggy Noonan to David Jacobs <=-
> PN> 1) the missing people really are physically missing, based on
> PN> searches and family members reporting the missing to police...
>
>I think I remember this being a very small percentage of the total
>cases. If you come across this section in Jacob's book then please
>correct me if I'm wrong. (I bet it is less than 10%.))
You're probably right about the book's contents, John. I haven't
read it yet (been tied up this week) and was only speaking from what
he'd said on the radio interview. I hope I didn't give an incorrect
representation in my enthusiasm, but I meant to convey that this
aspect (the missing being actually gone) was something new to me
however I recall nothing about the *number* of such cases -- perhaps
I discarded that as I heard it or perhaps it wasn't part of that
context, I can't say for sure now but could check the tape of that
program if it would help. I will be eager to read the book and *if*
I find anything to counter what you've mentioned, I'll pass it
along, however I'm sure you must be correct about the numbers (you
always are!) so I'll take your word for it. It was just the unusual
aspect of the validity that intrigued me...
Thanks, John!
==Peggy==
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: UFO Dream
Date: 5 May 92 21:42:00 GMT
LB> Did she describe what parts of these creatures she DID see?
I don't believe Lynn mentioned anything. I've asked her or her friend to
join us here.
jbh
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Abduction Digest, Number 62
Saturday, May 16th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Re: Abduction Detection
TV movie "Intruders"
Re: JUST A MENTION
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Davis)
Subject: Re: Abduction Detection
Date: 14 May 92 18:16:00 GMT
It seems, then, that our need is for minute documentation. It is,
for example, difficult to prove something existed once it has vanished.
t would also be helpful to have more than just individual testimony as
to any and all attempts to remove (or to evaluate removing) such an
item.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: TV movie "Intruders"
Date: 15 May 92 05:19:00 GMT
Hello all,
I'm posting a bit of info our local TV guide gives about "Intruders:"
Actress Mare Winningham, who stars in the CBS movie "Intruders"
(airing this coming Sunday P.M.), concedes that on first hearing, the
plot--about people who claim to be routinely abducted and experimented
on by aliens--sounded more that a little far out.
Says Winningham, "It's not easy for people to make that leap from a
UFO sighting to who's manning the darn thing."
In the weeks she spent researching her role (including interviewing
several abductees), the initially skeptical Winningham found her
opinion changing. "I had to decide whether these people were psycho-
paths, but they were people of obvious integrity and credibility," says
Winningham, who now counts herself among the true believers.
Best,
Linda
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: JUST A MENTION
Date: 11 May 92 17:31:42 GMT
Oh I don't get upset, I just wanted you to know that something was,
something was, something was, something was... 8*)
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Abduction Digest, Number 63
Wednesday, May 27th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Abduction Theory?
Re: Traffic Jam
Re: Affect On Us
Re: Abduction Theory?
New movie
Intruders
Abduction
Re: Intruders
Re: Intruders
CUFOSJ
Re: Abduction Theory?
Re: Intruders
Abduction Theory?
Re: I'm Baaack!!!
Intruders
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Pony Godic)
Subject: Abduction Theory?
Date: 16 May 92 22:12:00 GMT
The following is not an attempt at an actualy theory, but does
attempt to make sense of abductions by making some observations and
asking some questions that may not have been asked before.
As far as I know, no-one has looked at abductions within the context
of the current status of this planet. The world is suffering
political turmoil and, certainly, this is a variation on the theme
that has stretched throughout our recorded history and before.
Nevertheless, there are elements in the current world situation that
have never existed before. These are overpopulation resulting in the
environmental pressures of forest clearing and pollution of the air,
water and soil.
In this context, is it possible that aliens are monitoring us to
determine the impact of such factors on our physical and
reproductive as well as mental health?
Perhaps abductees are subject to charade type manipulations when they
are taken for examination. Perhaps the seeming clumsiness of the
medical exam and the medical instruments used are nothing more than a
blind behind which samples are nevertheless taken and an ongoing
evaluation made. If the subject should recall the abduction, then
their memories of cumbersome intruments and confusing alien
procedures would be considered implausible and so other explanations
would be sought.
Implants may seem the most unbelievable aspect of abductions, but
perhaps the implant the subject is shown, often theatrically, and
what is actually implanted are very different. Surely, if an alien
race are sophisticated enough to cross space and get here, they are
sophisticated enough to have a very sound knowledge of our
technology. In old sci fi movies, knowledge of our language,
technology and social structure were explained rather quaintly by
alien intercepton of our radio and television transmissions. Today,
I don't think it implausible to suggest the possibility of aliens
tapping into our computer networks. If this is happening on an
ongoing basis, then aliens would know everything from the individual
defence status of each nation, to the current level of our medical
technology. Armed with such knowledge, it may be possible to
implant sampling devices that could not be traced by our current
level of technology.
I draw your attention to nasal implants. If you were interested in
determining the types and levels of impurities that we were inhaling
and measuring their impact on our physical health, then a nasal
implant would be the medium. Of course, other implant sites occur,
but with the application of the above reasoning, they may all be
explainable.
If aliens are monitoring us in relation to the degredation of our
world environment, then they must have onworld bases. I don't think
it implausible, when discussing something as wild as this, to suggest
that our deepest oceans would provide excellent sites. On land,
there are deserts and both the poles. But, to move from place to
place, alien space ships would have to be invisible in all senses.
(Certain sightings do involve seemingly miraculous appearances and
disappearances.) If aliens have the technology to get here, then
they may have the technology to render themselves invisible.
Assuming alien bases exist, and that our computer networks are
monitored from them, then surely aliens would possess very sound
knowledge on us.
But why?
Well, perhaps they are simply documenting our decline with the same
philosophical resignation as we document the decline of individual
species here on Earth. Perhaps they are interested in whether the
pollution here is resulting in a downgrading in our fertility. Or
perhaps they are interested in what reproductive mutations it will
lead to. Perhaps abductees are not shown human/alien hybrids, but
reproductive experiments using mutated reproductive cells from male
and female humans.
One thing that would be explained by all of the above is the
phenomena of repeater abductees. If you are monitoring, then you
would take individuals and examine them periodically. If you wished
to determine the psychological impact of the decline of mother Earth
on humans, then perhaps you would show replays of fictional
catastrophies, relating that they were the result of
shortsightedness.
Of course, if we are being monitored, then maybe it's not entirely
dispassionate. Perhaps the aliens are trying to determine whether or
when they would intervene.
I'm not saying that I believe any of the above and certainly realize
that all I'm doing is exercising my imagination and stretching your
credibility. Nevertheless, the above would fit the "facts" and, in
the spirit of intelligent debate, I invite discussion.
--
Pony Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Hrusovszky@p0.f300.n238.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hrusovszky)
Subject: Re: Traffic Jam
Date: 15 May 92 03:40:00 GMT
JW> When you log on next just select the Odyssey UFO Database; they're
JW> stored in there. Got about 50 of the 400+ re-entered.
Jer, would it be possible to put the new sightings for the UFO database
into a special file that TIC could send to me on a weekly basis?
Entering them in a message area will not allow me to add them to my
listing.
And, the first time, I would just as soon download the whole thing to
make sure I am not missing any.
THanks in advance.
--jah
... Turn Your 386 into an XT ... Use Windows!
--
John Hrusovszky - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Hrusovszky@p0.f300.n238.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Abduction Theory?
Date: 17 May 92 15:11:00 GMT
In a message to All <05-16-92 15:12> Pony Godic wrote:
PG> Perhaps abductees are subject to charade type manipulations when they
PG> are taken for examination. Perhaps the seeming clumsiness of the
PG> medical exam and the medical instruments used are nothing more than a
PG> blind behind which samples are nevertheless taken and an ongoing
PG> evaluation made. If the subject should recall the abduction, then
PG> their memories of cumbersome intruments and confusing alien
PG> procedures would be considered implausible and so other explanations
PG> would be sought.
That's something I've believed for a long time. If I were investigating a
planet, and I was under strict orders not to make myself known or interfere
with its development, AND I knew I had to potchkey somewhat with the
natives, AND I knew I couldn't completely erase their memory of the
experience, I would do the next best thing: flood them with disinformation.
Create a scenario in their minds that was so implausible that when they got
around to telling their story to the masses, no one would believe them. I
think the entire genetic engineering charade is just that - an intricate
mask for their real purposes. What those are, I wouldn't even presume to
guess.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bcstec.ca.boeing.com!kuryakin
Subject: New movie
Date: 21 May 92 23:16:29 GMT
From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek)
I'll apologise in advance if this doesn't pan out, but it seems like
there might be enough story here to make the topic...
For the last two weeks they (20th Century Fox) have been filming a
Kiefer Sutherland/Jeff&Beau Bridges movie called Vanishings.
Don't know much about the plot other than it deals with a
Gas Station/Food Mart of the _Titan_ chain and the disappearence of
a man's wife and son. The vague things I hear are that Jeff Bridges is
the bad guy, Kiefer Sutherland is the good guy and his wife and son are
kidnapped somehow. One scene has the wife/son walking out of the store
with Kiefer about 10 seconds behind. When he looks up, even though they
are directly in front of him, he is unable to see them.
So the nutshell is there may be some connection to UFO abductions, though
the manner in which they attempt an explanation seems to be one of those
wild tangents that Movie Moguls like to take.
The movie is apparently scheduled for a Jan 93 release.
Rick Pavek
kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Intruders
Date: 21 May 92 13:56:00 GMT
So....
What'd y'all think of Intruders? I thought it was excellent, perhaps the
best fictional vehicle for informing the public on this issue that's ever
come along. I was leary of the fact that it had been fictionalized, but
Tracy and his collaborator did an excellent job. I was very impressed with
the no-nonsense tenor of the production, and I think the message of "THIS
IS A GENUINE PROBLEM" came through loud and clear. Something tells me the
impact of this mini-series will be far greater than that of the movie
"Communion" (which is as it should be).
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ray.Maurer@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Ray Maurer)
Subject: Abduction
Date: 21 May 92 22:58:00 GMT
I am working with a young female abductee who is scared to death to go
to sleep at night. Has anyone come accross a method of stopping an
abduction? Or does anyone have a suggestion on what I should tell her
to calm her down. She is at that age (23) when the abductions are
coming fairly frequently. Advise is welcome. Thanks Ray
--
Ray Maurer - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Ray.Maurer@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Intruders
Date: 22 May 92 02:08:00 GMT
Hi Jim,
I was intrigued by the part where the scientist talked about the nasal
implant and its characteristics. Any truth to any of that? i was not
aware
that an implant had been found and studied.
Thanks,
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ralph.Toscano@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Ralph Toscano)
Subject: Re: Intruders
Date: 22 May 92 22:54:00 GMT
Hi Jim:
On the whole I thought the mini series was well done. However, the
ending was sort of "corny"... "Somewhere out there is my niece"...
gimme a break!... I felt strong anti-government overtones... perhaps
this will lead people to the realization that something IS going on
here!... Let's hope that the rumors of an Oliver Stone UFO flick are
legit!!....
Best Regards - Ralph
--
Ralph Toscano - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Ralph.Toscano@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: CUFOSJ
Date: 22 May 92 06:46:00 GMT
> am pleased to see someone has finally done the necessary
> research instead of dismissing the testable hypothesis out of
> hand. If a thorough investigation now shows that FPP is not the
> broad answer, although they allow it is strongly suggested as
> the answer for some abductions, I am now ready to move on to
Keith,
I think you should be congratulated on all the research you have been
doing on the FFP. Even if it is "NOT the broad answer" to all
abductions, there is definitely something in it - I don't think FFP
should be simply dismissed as "non starter". This is non-scientific
and reminds me of a number of individuals, I had spoken to in the
past, (some of them were scientist, doctors etc.) and who perhaps
read only one (probably the worst kind) book on UFOs and said "there
is nothing in it - UFOs are a bunch of nonsence".
I have had oportunity to interview people, some of them simply
reporting a UFO sighting, whose imagination (and FFP) was working
overtime. Actually I used to know a few "regulars" who would call me
at least once a month and report more UFO sightings. I even knew a
"UFO researcher" who had at least 3 or 4 UFO sightings a day. If this
is not FFP I don't know what is it.
--
Vladimir Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Pony Godic)
Subject: Re: Abduction Theory?
Date: 24 May 92 03:01:00 GMT
PG> their memories of cumbersome intruments and confusing alien
PG> procedures would be considered implausible and so other explanations
PG> would be sought.
> I had to potchkey somewhat with the natives, AND I knew I
> couldn't completely erase their memory of the experience, I
> would do the next best thing: flood them with disinformation.
> Create a scenario in their minds that was so implausible that
> when they got around to telling their story to the masses, no
> one would believe them. I think the entire genetic engineering
> charade is just that - an intricate mask for their real
> purposes. What those are, I wouldn't even presume to guess.
Thanks for your reply Jim, I agree with you. Sometimes I wonder if
we're really being coaxed and prodded towards a particular objective.
Originally we were teased intellectually by UFO flaps, now we're
being teased by an abduction flap. I can't help feeling that what is
remembered may be accidentally on purpose. Consequently, I wonder if
this is all a big intelligence test. If that's so, then we've got
all the pieces we just haven't figured out how to put them together.
Of course, I say this in the spirit of debate. I honestly, have no
idea what's going on, but it sure is titilating. I suppose the one
thing that can be said for certain is that if you are going to go to
the trouble of crossing X number of light years of space, you'd have
to be coming here for something very important. Of course, the
interest may be purely clinical, e.g. documenting our demise.
Cheers
Pony
--
Pony Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Re: Intruders
Date: 24 May 92 17:10:00 GMT
-THE- Ralph Toscano? Where have YOU been hiding?
As to the ending being corny, well, sometimes corny is appropriate...
Yes, an Oliver Stone flick would be just the thing, but I don't think we're
going to hear anything about it until the dust settles from "JFK". I
wouldn't want him to scuttle his credibility prematurely. Certainly an event
of that type is needed, though, in fact it may be the ONLY thing that can
light a fire under people at this point.
Good to hear from you again.
Jim
--
Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard.Salts@p0.f28.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Richard Salts)
Subject: Abduction Theory?
Date: 27 May 92 06:11:05 GMT
Hello Pony!
16 May 92, Pony Godic writes to All:
PG> The following is not an attempt at an actualy theory, but does attempt to
PG> make sense of abductions by making some observations and asking some
PG> questions that may not have been asked before.
PG> As far as I know, no-one has looked at abductions within the context of
PG> the current status of this planet. The world is suffering political
PG> turmoil and, certainly, this is a variation on the theme that has
PG> stretched throughout our recorded history and before. Nevertheless, there
PG> are elements in the current world situation that have never existed
PG> before. These are overpopulation resulting in the environmental pressures
PG> of forest clearing and pollution of the air, water and soil.
PG> In this context, is it possible that aliens are monitoring us to determine
PG> the impact of such factors on our physical and reproductive as well as
PG> mental health?
PG> Perhaps abductees are subject to charade type manipulations when they are
PG> taken for examination. Perhaps the seeming clumsiness of the medical exam
PG> and the medical instruments used are nothing more than a blind behind
PG> which samples are nevertheless taken and an ongoing evaluation made. If
PG> the subject should recall the abduction, then their memories of cumbersome
PG> intruments and confusing alien procedures would be considered implausible
PG> and so other explanations would be sought.
PG> Implants may seem the most unbelievable aspect of abductions, but perhaps
PG> the implant the subject is shown, often theatrically, and what is actually
PG> implanted are very different. Surely, if an alien race are sophisticated
PG> enough to cross space and get here, they are sophisticated enough to have
PG> a very sound knowledge of our technology. In old sci fi movies, knowledge
PG> of our language, technology and social structure were explained
PG> rather quaintly by alien intercepton of our radio and television
PG> transmissions. Today, I don't think it implausible to suggest the
PG> possibility of aliens tapping into our computer networks. If this is
PG> happening on an ongoing basis, then aliens would know everything from the
PG> individual defence status of each nation, to the current level of our
PG> medical technology. Armed with such knowledge, it may be possible to
PG> implant sampling devices that could not be traced by our current level of
PG> technology.
PG> I draw your attention to nasal implants. If you were interested in
PG> determining the types and levels of impurities that we were inhaling and
PG> measuring their impact on our physical health, then a nasal implant would
PG> be the medium. Of course, other implant sites occur, but with the
PG> application of the above reasoning, they may all be explainable.
PG> If aliens are monitoring us in relation to the degredation of our world
PG> environment, then they must have onworld bases. I don't think it
PG> implausible, when discussing something as wild as this, to suggest that
PG> our deepest oceans would provide excellent sites. On land, there are
PG> deserts and both the poles. But, to move from place to place, alien space
PG> ships would have to be invisible in all senses. (Certain sightings do
PG> involve seemingly miraculous appearances and disappearances.) If aliens
PG> have the technology to get here, then they may have the technology to
PG> render themselves invisible.
PG> Assuming alien bases exist, and that our computer networks are monitored
PG> from them, then surely aliens would possess very sound knowledge on us.
PG> But why?
PG> Well, perhaps they are simply documenting our decline with the same
PG> philosophical resignation as we document the decline of individual species
PG> here on Earth. Perhaps they are interested in whether the pollution here
PG> is resulting in a downgrading in our fertility. Or perhaps they are
PG> interested in what reproductive mutations it will lead to. Perhaps
PG> abductees are not shown human/alien hybrids, but reproductive experiments
PG> using mutated reproductive cells from male and female humans.
PG> One thing that would be explained by all of the above is the phenomena of
PG> repeater abductees. If you are monitoring, then you would take
PG> individuals and examine them periodically. If you wished to determine the
PG> psychological impact of the decline of mother Earth on humans, then
PG> perhaps you would show replays of fictional catastrophies, relating that
PG> they were the result of shortsightedness.
PG> Of course, if we are being monitored, then maybe it's not entirely
PG> dispassionate. Perhaps the aliens are trying to determine whether or when
PG> they would intervene.
PG> I'm not saying that I believe any of the above and certainly realize that
PG> all I'm doing is exercising my imagination and stretching your
PG> credibility. Nevertheless, the above would fit the "facts" and, in the
PG> spirit of intelligent debate, I invite discussion.
Hi, Pony,
I'm new to Paranet and I have a thought or two on your subject. I am writing
this late at night so I'll be brief.
Contrary to "stretching my credibility", I LOVE to talk about wild things!
They stretch my mind and I enjoy that!
My theory: I believe THEY are using this earth and us humans as a resource
center for THEIR own needs. THEY have no wish to contact us directly and
publicly for reasons that I'll say just now are obvious. I can talk later on
those if there is interest. THEY may have certain biological problems (as per
Hopkins' researches) that THEY need us for without disturbing our culture with
knowledge of THEIR presence.
Best regards,
Richard
--
Richard Salts - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Richard.Salts@p0.f28.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ralph.Toscano@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Ralph Toscano)
Subject: Re: I'm Baaack!!!
Date: 26 May 92 19:10:00 GMT
Hi Jim;
Yes, I'm back... I needed to get away from this UFO thing for
awhile...after my experiences with Lear and then the stuff with Moore,
I was about to "lose it".... We'll have to chat about this stuff
privately sometime... I hope all is well with you..resturaunt..your
book,(still writing one I hope)?... I've been getting involved with the
abduction phenomena lately... lots of credible folks out there, pretty
scary stuff... Hope we can chat soon.
Best Regards - Ralph ("THE")
--
Ralph Toscano - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Ralph.Toscano@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Intruders
Date: 17 May 92 22:46:00 GMT
Hi Linda, thanks for posting that piece on the TV movie "Intruders."
I wonder what impact this is going to have? We will wait and see.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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Abduction Digest, Number 64
Tuesday, June 2nd 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Abduction Theory?
Abduction
Back again
Malpractice
Mind control
Missing abductees
Re: Intruders
Abduction Theory?
Re: Back again
PHYSICALITY
PHYSICALITY 2
PHYSICALITY 3
PHYSICALITY 4
PHYSICALITY 5
Australian Abduction Research
Abduction Theory?
Re: Abduction Theory?
Mind control
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Marc Michalik)
Subject: Abduction Theory?
Date: 27 May 92 19:47:00 GMT
That is possible. However, I have alsways believed that the aliens
we see are "scientists". I think they found us here thousands of
years ago and were interested because we are obviously a close
relation to them. Just as if we were to find a planet of simians.
I think it possible that they interbreeded with the neanderthal man
that they found here and that they are the missing link. Or, they
may be highly advanced humans who just as far above us on the
evolutionary scal as we are above apes. Then again, there are
countless more plausable explanations.
--
Marc Michalik - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill.Skiles@p7.f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Skiles)
Subject: Abduction
Date: 24 May 92 08:03:00 GMT
> I am working with a young female abductee who is
> scared to death to go to sleep at night. Has anyone
> come accross a method of stopping an abduction? Or
> does anyone have a suggestion on what I should tell
> her to calm her down. She is at that age (23) when the
> abductions are coming fairly frequently. Advise is
> welcome. Thanks Ray
Ray, whatever you do don't forget about her and just leave her out there in
left field. Don't get too busy. I tried to get some assistance awhile back and
I'm still waiting. Keep in touch with her, let her talk it out as much as she
needs to. Also, I found that having a light on and other people around helps.
Yes, I know, it doesn't stop them but at least it makes it possible to fall
asleep. If you find a way to stop them, PLEASE let me know. Bill
--
Bill Skiles - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bill.Skiles@p7.f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Back again
Date: 27 May 92 06:58:24 GMT
I'd like to say hello to everyone after another long departure. I am
hoping that the incredible media whirl might now be lessening and I can go
back to my abduction work. I'll try to answer a few of the inquiries that I
have received but once again I am not sure that I can get to them all.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Malpractice
Date: 27 May 92 07:06:36 GMT
The most important thing that guards against malpractice is the fact that
I do not charge for any of my services. When money changes hands, expectations
rise and the pressure is on. Without a fee, my life may be a bit more
impoverished, but it is also more relaxed about what I can and cannot
accomplish. Also, I have all the people who come to me sign a release
allowing me to use any information that they might impart to me as long as I
do no disclose their identity. The release also absolves me of any
responsibility in the event that they become psychologically disturbed.
Working with a therapist also helps. If the abductee is having great
difficulties coming to terms with the phenomenon, I supply them with the name
of an excellent psychologist who works with abductees. So far I have not had
any problem with malpractice and so forth, but one has to remember that the
abductee population can be somewhat more volatile than the average population
and one must be prepared for anything.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Mind control
Date: 27 May 92 07:15:41 GMT
Bill, I still have to send you my questionnaire. Hang in there, I'll do
it. Your comments about alcohol and resisting mind control are something that
we have thought about but we really don't know if that is a sure-fire method
of resistance. I feel certain that others who have been drunk have been
abducted and the routine procedures are performed upon them without
difficulties. I am not really sure if any medication or drugs would interfere
with the abduction scenario but it is definitely something that must be looked
into. The problem is even if we find that drugs of some sort will prevent
abductions, then what? Should the abductee walk around all day being drugged
just in case an abduction should occur? This is a difficult area to think
about, but we must start thinking along these lines to see what can and
cannot work.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Missing abductees
Date: 27 May 92 07:20:10 GMT
John, to follow up on the discussion about abductees being missing during
an abduction event. To the best of my knowledge we do not have a single case
anywhere, anytime, of an abductee being physically in a normal place while an
abduction event is ongoing. Keith Basterfield has said that he has two cases
of this happening, but my discussion with him about this and my research into
one of his cases suggests that he is in error on both accounts. Therefore I
can say with a certain degree of confidence that the percentage of abductees
who are missing is 100%.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Intruders
Date: 29 May 92 05:40:19 GMT
Hi Keith,
In reply to your question:
*** Quoting Keith Basterfield to Linda Bird ***
KB> Hi Linda, thanks for posting that piece on the TV movie
KB> "Intruders."
KB> I wonder what impact this is going to have? We will wait and see.
KB>
KB> --- FD 1.99c
KB> * Origin: UFO Research Australia, Research Officer,
There hasn't been much comment or discussion on the BBS's on the movie
"Intruders." I personally have mixed feelings about it. I thought the
Aliens themselves looked slimy and rubbery. The final scene with the alien
telling the mother that "Now you will believe" or something like that was a
bit contrived and the alien was too compassionate. Anyone reading the
literature on abductions will not find compassionate aliens (for 99% of the
cases).
I did tape the whole 4 hour program (and zapped commercials!) I should
probably view it again ....
It was a good intro for those just finding out about this subject. My
pharmacist said it "scared the hell" out of him; then he turned around and
begged to borrow all the tapes I have made or bought! Go figure! :-)
Best always,
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Pony Godic)
Subject: Abduction Theory?
Date: 31 May 92 01:28:00 GMT
> My theory: I believe THEY are using this earth and us humans as
> a resource center for THEIR own needs. THEY have no wish to
> contact us directly and publicly for reasons that I'll say just
> now are obvious. I can talk later on those if there is
> interest. THEY may have certain biological problems (as per
> Hopkins' researches) that THEY need us for without disturbing
> our culture with knowledge of THEIR presence.
Hullo Richard,
Thanks for your reply. Please feel free to elaborate
on what you said. Firstly, what sort of resource centre do you
believe us to be and what do you believe the aliens' needs are?
Secondly, please fill me in with regards to why the aliens do not wish
to contact us directly and/or publicly, I'm afraid what is obvious to
you isn't obvious to me. Granted they may have biological needs and
be using us in this regard, but given the current state of our medical
technology - i.e. IVF, genetic engineering re attempts to eliminate inherited
diseases etc. I tend to feel that aliens who are so advanced that they
can cross however many light years they cross to get here would be
advanced enough not to need us as a genetic resource be it for breeding
with a view to revitalising themselves physically or otherwise.
Personally, I tend to feel that they are interested in us in much
broader terms, but then I've never experienced abduction so this is an
observers viewpoint. Anyway, nice talking to you.
Cheers, Pony.
--
Pony Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Back again
Date: 31 May 92 06:15:00 GMT
HI David,
Some of here in Arizona are wondering if you are planning to attend
the July MUFON conf. in Albuquerque. We'd sure like to meet you.
Kind regards,
Linda Bird
--
Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: PHYSICALITY
Date: 1 Jun 92 00:24:00 GMT
David, in preparation for the forthcoming conference I have been
carefully reviewing my Australian abduction case notes, as well as my
extensive literature base on the subject.
On the question of whether there have been any known instances where
an abductee was observed to be physically present whilst an abduction
was reportedly occurring, I believe there are actually at least 3 to
be considered.
1. The first is reported in the English Flying Saucer Review Special
Issue Number 3 of Sept 1969 pp36-37 in an article by H S W Chibbett
titled: "UFOs and Parapsychology." It originally was published in
"The Australian Saucer Record" Vol 1 No 4 in 1955.
In 1955, in Adelaide, South Australia, a 10 year old girl, under
hypnosis for therapy for a slight nervous disorder, spontaneously
reported that she was now in a "flying saucer." She went on to give a
detailed description of a trip to another planet. "She described the
landing, the people, and a kind of city-all as though it were
actually happening, and she were merely describing what she saw." To
her, the event was "real." This case meets all four of the criteria
of the CUFOS Abduction Study definition of an abduction.
Next message.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: PHYSICALITY 2
Date: 31 May 92 23:59:00 GMT
Part 2:-
2.
The second case is that of Maureen Puddy. Now that I have had time to
go back over my detailed notes and tape recordings, from 1972, it too
meets all four criteria of the CUFOS definition. A full account of
this case has been submitted for publication. The abduction account
needs to be set in the context of multiple events which occurred to
Maureen. A potted summary follows:-
3/7/72 9.15 p.m. driving alone Puddy sights large UFO at close range.
Stops to watch it, then reports it to Police and Air Force.
25/7/72
9.15 p.m. driving alone when UFO appears. Car stops by itself. Sound
drains from air. Message passed to her. Object leaves. She again
reports it to Police and RAAF. Independent witnesses see unusual
lights in the area. 22/2/73 daytime. Feels eerie prescence at home.
Contacts 2 UFO researchers- arranges to meet them at scene of UFO
encounters of 1972. On way to scene entity appears in car-she nearly
crashes car. At scene 2 UFO researchers join her. She suddenly sees
entity outside, they see nothing. Entity beckons Maureen to join him.
She refuses, then "faints." While in faint, in presence of 2
researchers, she describes being in a round room somewhere. Lit, but
no sign of source of illumination. Entity appears and communicates
with her. She panics as there is no doors or windows in "room." Comes
to in car, crying, saying she cannot remember anything of what had
just transpired during "faint." In this instance, before the subject
of abductions was known to any wide degree in Australia, a witness of
impeccable character, totally perplexed by the episodes, was
apaprently subjected to an escalating sequence of events terminating
in what is by definition, an abduction. This abduction event was
absolutely "real" to Puddy.
Next message.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: PHYSICALITY 3
Date: 1 Jun 92 00:12:00 GMT
Part 3:-
3. The third case is that of Gaynor Sunderland, June 1979, as
described by Jenny Randles and Paul Whetnall in their study of the
case, a book called "Alien Contact" London. Coronet. 1983. Again, the
abduction related below is set in a complex series of events,
including daylight CE3 observations and other episodes,involving
several members of the Sunderland family. A brief summary is that
Gaynor went to bed at 8.30 p.m. She was still awake at 10.15 p.m.
when her mother looked in. After her mother left she felt dizzy. A
long, dark tunnel appeared along which she was swept. The tunnel
vanished and she was now in strange surroundings, with 2 aliens
present. Communication between the aliens and Gaynor ensued. She was
later instantly transported to another location-an alien city. She
was shown around and they told her: "We are from another time or
dimension. In the future many of us will come and try to live in
peace with you on earth." She was transported, via tunnel back to
bed, where she went to sleep about 11.45 p.m. and did not wake till
the next morning. However, and most importantly to note, Gaynor's
mother went into Gaynor's bedroom at 11.20 p.m., during the
abduction. Gaynor was asleep, on her back, rigid, lying perfectly flat, like a
corpse, breathing very deeply and slowly. Gaynor's mother returned at
12.30 a.m. and she went to check Gaynor. Gaynor was still fast
asleep, but now in her usual sleeping style, not rigid etc as before.
Gaynor's abduction would meet all four of the CUFOS criteria for an
abduction.
Next message.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: PHYSICALITY 4
Date: 1 Jun 92 00:20:00 GMT
Part 4:-
In my Australian abduction first hand investigations, and my
extensive reading and correspondence with abductees here and
overseas, there are 3 categories of events: (1) single witness, (2)
multiple witness, (3) abductions with independent witnesses. By far
and away the majority of global abductions are of category 1 and 2,
with very few in 3. Most of the time, abductees, cannot show by
independent witnesses, that they were physically absent from their
normal locality. I therefore think it very unwise for us to be making
statements to the effect that "...abductees are NEVER physically in
place..." or "Researchers have not collected a SINGLE case..." (my
emphasis). Someone only has to demonstarte the existence of ONE case
to negate the statement, and our credibility falls. Best to say that
"some" cases are known where independent witnesses can state that the
individual was not where they were supposed to be during the reported
abduction. Even then, simply because a person isn't where they were
supposed to be doesn't prove they were abducted, merely missing. A
hoaxer, for example,would clearly ensure they were physically absent
from their normal place.
Next message.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: PHYSICALITY 5
Date: 1 Jun 92 00:31:00 GMT
Thank you for the opportunity of exchanging views with you on Paranet.
I look forward to meeting you in person next month, which should give
us all plenty of time for comparing data on this challenging enigma.
Regards, Keith.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Australian Abduction Research
Date: 1 Jun 92 00:40:00 GMT
I would like to make a few comments relating to David Jacobs' remarks
about Keith Basterfield and his research into Australian Abductions.
1. FPP - "non starter" (mentioned at least two times on Paranet/Abduct)
2. I quote from a recent Paranet message in ABDUCT echo:
>From David Jacobs to John Powell:
" John, to follow up on the discussion about
abductees being missing during and abduction event. To the best of
my knowledge we do not have a single case anywhere, anytime, of an
abductee being physically in a normal place while an abduction event
is ongoing. Keith Basterfield has said he has two cases of this happening,
but my discussion with him about this and my research into one of these
cases suggests he is in error on both accounts.
Therefore I can say with a certain degree of confidence that the
percentage of abductees who are missing is 100%."
WRONG ON BOTH ACCOUNTS!
But before I go on any further, I would like to say a few things
about Keith Basterfield's research into abductions and UFOs in
general.
Keith and I have been working together for nearly twenty years. I am
no longer involved in full time research because of my other duties
associated with UFORA. We used to investigate reports together and
separately for many years. Keith is very thorough and conscientious researcher. He
always documents and publishes his research findings in various UFORA
case files and documents and overseas journals. Our files and documents are available
freely to any bona fide UFO researcher.
Although Keith is interested in psychological aspects of UFO
research, I have never known him to knock back a good "nuts and bolts
case". In my opinion this is what scientific research is all about.
He is always willing to listen to and learn from other reliable
researchers.
Without going into further details, I would like to get back to the
original issue(s).
1. FFP - "non starter". A few days ago, I posted a message relating
to my research (and Keith's, of course) experience in dealing with
FPP so there is no need to elaborate on this particular subject other
than to say that it applies equally to abductions and "nuts and
bolts" cases. I am afraid I cannot accept a simple "non starter"
statement because it basically means that we are not capable of
researching and this puts us in a category of inexperienced
beginners.
2. ABDUCTEES BEING MISSING DURING AN ABDUCTIONS.
For those of you who don't know, or haven't heard, of Maureen Puddy's
encounter, (here in Australia) this is a brief resume of Maureen's
abduction experience.
Maureen Puddy, (then - in 1972) a 37 old housewife, of Rye in
Victoria, was driving near the railway crossing between Frankston and
Dromana, some 60km south-east of Melbourne, Victoria. At about 9:15
p.m., just after passing over the railway crossing, the roadway was
lit by a blue light. Thinking that the light was coming from a
helicopter, she did not take too much notice, even though later she
recalled hearing no noise at all.
Realising that even though it may have been a helicopter, she
accelerated away trying to get away out of blue light. She then
slowed down, thinking that the pilot was trying to get her attention.
The light stopped with her. Shielding her eyes against the light, she
looked up to see an unusual object. It was shaped like two saucers
stuck together.
Mrs Puddy then drove to the nearby Rosebud police station and
reported the event.
Later on, after a number of other incidents e.g voices calling her etc.,
(please note : I am leaving a lot of material out simply because I want to come
to the most important event) she telephoned the Victorian UFO
Research Society and two members agreed to meet her at the spot where
(previously) her car had stopped all of its own accord. Arriving at
the nominated spot, all 3 people then sat in Maureen's car. Suddenly
she saw the same (who appeared to her before) "man" had appeared just
outside the vehicle. Neither of the other 2 could see anything
unusual present. Suddenly, according to the others present, Maureen
"fainted". She related that she was in a round room somewhere which
was lit, but there was no visible source of illumination. The "man"
just appeared in the room, in which there was also a mushroom shaped
object rising up from the floor. .The "man" told her to describe what
she could see, and this she did, to be heard by the 2 in the car. She
could see no doors or windows in this room and so began to be scared.
She started to cry and then woke up, still in the car, with tears in
her eyes, saying she could not remember anything that had just
occurred. The 2 in the car filled her in on what had just transpired.
According to the 2 people present, Maureen never left the presence of
UFO researchers during the abductions.
Maureen remained adamant that the whole thing was "real".
If you wish a document on Maureen Puddy's experience it is available
from UFORA for the cost of postage and copying. Please contact me on
Paranet.
-------------------------------------------------------
Case Number 2.
Equally as importantly is the case of Gaynor Sunderland as documented
in Jenny Randles & Paul Whetnall "Alien Contact", 1983. London.
Coronet Books.
Gaynor went to bed at 8:30 p.m. At 10:15 p.m. her mother looked in
and found her still awake. After her mother left she was dizzy, and
she saw a long, dark tunnel. She went through the tunnel to a place
at the other end. There were 2 aliens there. It was "as real as real"
to her - no dream like qualities. The aliens spoke to to Gaynor in
faultless English. She was then taken to an alien city where
knowledge was given to her. Suddenly the dizzines returned and she
returned via the tunnel. She found herself back in bed awake. The
time was now estimated to be at 11:45 p.m. She went to sleep. Her
mother stated that at 11:20 p.m. she had gone in to see Gaynor and
found her fast asleep, all curled up on the bed.
I rest my case.
--
Vladimir Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard.Salts@p0.f28.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Richard Salts)
Subject: Abduction Theory?
Date: 1 Jun 92 03:20:01 GMT
Hello Pony!
Saturday May 30 1992, Pony Godic writes to Richard Salts:
>> My theory: I believe THEY are using this earth and us humans as
>> a resource center for THEIR own needs. THEY have no wish to
>> contact us directly and publicly for reasons that I'll say just
>> now are obvious. I can talk later on those if there is
>> interest. THEY may have certain biological problems (as per
>> Hopkins' researches) that THEY need us for without disturbing
>> our culture with knowledge of THEIR presence.
PG> Hullo Richard,
PG> Thanks for your reply. Please feel free to elaborate
PG> on what you said. Firstly, what sort of resource centre do you believe us
PG> to be and what do you believe the aliens' needs are?
I believe us to be a biological gene pool that they may need to probably
revitalize themselves. That may be only one purpose but racial survival is a
pretty powerful motive that would impel them to travel as far as necessary, to
be able to improve their stock, if they have the means to make the trip.
Also . . . .
Ann Druffel and the late D. Scott Rogo in their book, "The Tujunga Canyon
Contacts" investigated the case of some young women who were 'examined' by
beings who also wanted to have them and train them for work (!), if I remember
correctly from the book, apparently the 'beings' needed some (human) labor!
If that had been me, I might have jumped at the chance but the women didn't
want to and eventually the 'beings' left. I offhand wonder as I write this how
many abductions go beyond the medical exam and gene tapping . . . . if some of
these beings may be able to get long-term 'relationships' going with some
selected humans and how many of these 'relationships' get to the attention of
qualified investigators and whether these investigators would even take such
accounts seriously even if the human half would come forward to them to say
what happened . . . . The UFO community was split about taking abductions
seriously at one time.
We may be a much younger and biologically more vital species than these beings
might themselves be and that may be why they are here . . . perhaps. Much of
this theorizing of mine is based on Budd Hopkins book, "Intruders", the
chapter, Summing Up where a psychologist was taken on board a 'craft' and the
occupants in this case were much more communicative and than are most other
abduction cases we hear about and 'told' and showed this psychologist a lot of
things about themselves and their purpose here. Hopkins, however, related only
the barest outlines of this case as, in the chapter, he refused to publish
everything so as to give other confirming evidence a chance to surface.
PG> Secondly, please fill
PG> me in with regards to why the aliens do not wish to contact us directly
PG> and/or publicly, I'm afraid what is obvious to you isn't obvious to me.
Understood. I was typing my message very late at night, past my bedtime, in
fact, so I chose not to expound on that theme at that time. However . . . .
The impact on given peoples of cultural contact,(or cultural collision) has
long been recorded and talked about in other materials and the ultimate result
is that, in human history at least, any contact between a technically
'advanced' civilization and one deemed 'less' advanced has invariably meant
doom to the 'less advanced' culture. A case in point is the controversy in the
States as to how Christopher Columbus should be remembered; as a saint or devil
in the way native 'new world' cultures were treated by the European explorers
subsequent to Columbus' discoveries.
Now here come the UFO's. Are they alien spaceships? Some evidence might
strongly point in that direction, depending on who is asked that question. The
fact remains that, if some of these 'unknowns' ARE such things, then for the
FIRST time, perhaps in history, the balance of power on this world will be
turned upside down and the English-European descended superpowers will suddenly
find themselves in the same place as they found the New World 'Indians 500
years ago. We will then be the primitives confronting the Interstellar
Superpower! Considering what we have done to each other here on Planet Earth, a
contact like this, where, this time, WE are at a stark DISadvantage is not at
all a pleasant event to contemplate. That is assuming that THEY conduct
THEMSELVES toward us as we did toward the Indians back those many centuries . .
But what if THEY do not . . . .
If THEY did act like us, this network would not exist, neither MUFON or CUFOS
would be around and the debate about the existence of extraterrestrials would
be stilled as the very question, "are we alone in the universe?" would have
been forever answered as we would have long since been under THEIR rule.
Therefore . . . . .
What THEY DO NOT DO can, in an indirect way become part of a possible answer.
THEY may respect cultures other than THEIR own that are not as technically
advanced as THEY are but THEY recognize have a right of their own to exist free
from the kind of consequences that such contact can bring. (Hmmmm, I hope you
can understand that paragraph. It's kind of clumsy but the best I can think of
now.)
Then too . . . .
In our own eyes, let alone someone else's, the more thoughtful among us have
seen ourselves as still as a savage, violent, primitive species who cannot
tolerate any differences among ourselves without exploding into violent, often
lethal rages at the sight of any such differences. It can be anything,
religious, racial, sexual, political, whatever. In the States, our
'conservative' society has fostered deep homophobic attitudes towards people
who have sexual preferences away from an arbitarily prescribed 'norm,' and who
in the world HASN'T seen the now famous (or infamous) L.A. riots in the wake of
a certain judicial verdict that paints in stark, glaring terms the fact that in
spite of Civil Rights, etc., race relations in this country have a l-o-n-g way
yet to go before harmony there is realized, if it ever will be. Point is, in
this paragraph, if we as humans on this planet, can't treat our own differences
with courtesy, dignity and respect, we will be an abyssmal failure contacting
beings who are further removed from us . . . . .That is speaking of humans
generally, not specifically as people,
Which may be why . . . . . .
THEY are 'contacting,' "selecting", as THEY have been known to put it, or
abducting people singly to be put under control (temporarily) and with some,
maybe 'relationships' are forged . . . .
PG> Granted they may have biological needs and be using us in this regard, but
PG> given the current state of our medical technology - i.e. IVF, genetic
PG> engineering re attempts to eliminate inherited diseases etc. I tend to
PG> feel that aliens who are so advanced that they can cross however many
PG> light years they cross to get here would be advanced enough not to need us
PG> as a genetic resource be it for breeding with a view to revitalising
PG> themselves physically or otherwise.
We, perhaps may not be the only beings who develop inconsistently, that is,
overdeveloping in certain areas while being behind in others. We know next to
nothing about these beings' culture but I'm not of the opinion that because
THEY can do something we at present cannot do -- cross interstellar space --
THEY are superbeings at everything else, also. Perhaps THEY have this
inetrstellar technology but they may have worn themselves out by inbreeding.
That's just a guess and there are biological difficulties with this concept,
but that's for another message.
G'night
Richard
--
Richard Salts - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Richard.Salts@p0.f28.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Davis)
Subject: Re: Abduction Theory?
Date: 31 May 92 00:57:00 GMT
Given the nearly mind numbing routine described by most abductees, it
occurs to me that the aliens reported in abduction cases may not be
scientists at all. Rather thay are more likely technicians or, even,
androids - either mechanical or organic.
Just a thought.
--
Tom Davis - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Bill.Skiles@p7.f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Skiles)
Subject: Mind control
Date: 29 May 92 08:09:00 GMT
> Bill, I still have to send you my questionnaire.
> Hang in there, I'll do it.
Thanks, I'm hangin'.
BTW, I bought your book. There seems to be a lot
of stuff comming into my memory from earlier years.
Been sharing it with John Hicks, but I shoulda been
writing it down. I really don't know what to think
anymore. The farther away from the experience in
the Everglades, the more it becomes like a dream,
Wish to God there was someone local and I could
just find out one way or the other.
Thanks for not forgetting me.
Bill
--
Bill Skiles - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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Abduction Digest, Number 65
Thursday, June 11th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Re: Abduction Theory?
Missing Abductees
Re: Missing abductees
CROP CIRCLES
Abduction Theory?
MUFON Conference
Abd. Conference
Abduction Theory?
Abduction Theory?
Re: Missing Abductees
Biopsy
Re: Abduction Theory?
Re: MUFON Conference
Re: Abduction Theory?
Intruders
Sleep research 1
Sleep research 2
Non-missing abductees
Re: Intruders
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Marc Michalik)
Subject: Re: Abduction Theory?
Date: 2 Jun 92 21:19:00 GMT
Why not? The state of mind an abductee is in facilitates control of
the subject that is apparently physicaly stronger. If they are the
scientists of their race then this would be a logical method. Just
like our scientists tranquilize tigers and other dangerous (to us)
animals. To take it even farther, if a mouse were a scientist he
would surely "neutrilize" a cat before attempting any close
examination.
--
Marc Michalik - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Missing Abductees
Date: 3 Jun 92 07:23:00 GMT
In response to a message from John Powell, David Jacobs writes:
> John, to follow up on the discussion about abductees
> being missing during an abduction event. To the best of
> my knowledge we do not have a single case anywhere,
> anytime, of an abductee being physically in a normal place
> while an abduction event is ongoing. Keith Basterfield has
> said that he has two cases of this happening, but my
> discussion with him about this and my research into one of
> his cases suggests that he is in error on both accounts.
> Therefore I can say with a certain degree of confidence
> that the percentage of abductees who are missing is 100%.
> Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
Please explain the basis for your conclusion that your research into
one of Keith's cases suggests that "he is in error on both
accounts".
Thankyou in advance ...
-- John
--
John Burke - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu!jrblack
Subject: Re: Missing abductees
Date: 4 Jun 92 21:51:25 GMT
From: James Roger Black <jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu>
If memory serves, Ray Fowler's 'Betty Andreasson' case had at least one
instance where the abductee was observed by a family member to be still
in bed during the time when the abduction was taking place. This was
'explained' as an imposture by one of the aliens to allay suspicion.
There was also a case reported years ago in IUR in which a man went
into a full-blown abduction experience while riding in a car with two
friends. The abductee was screaming hysterically about being followed
by a 'flying saucer' which looked to his two friends like an ordinary
bus. The abductee became so agitated that he jumped out of the car in
traffic and injured himself, after which his friends took him to a
local medical facility to be patched up. The abductee interpreted this
as a typical 'examining room' experience, and the human medical
personnel as aliens.
I think we're going to have to make a place for 'non-missing' abductees
in any comprehensive treatment of the phenomenon.
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Roger Black jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: CROP CIRCLES
Date: 1 Jun 92 04:47:00 GMT
I've forwarded the following to you here, since I believe you're in the
Philadelphia area, in the hope that you'd be able to pass it along to someone
who could investigate. I don't know any other details, but I've asked the
poster to not post the exact location but to send it to either me or Chris
Rutkowski via netmail. If he does that, and it doesn't turn out that the entire
world has trampled all over the site already, I'll netmail you the location to
pass along too. The poster lives in the Philadelphia area.
Thanks.
* Forwarded from "UFO"
* Originally by Steve Bernheisel
* Originally to All
* Originally dated 28 May 1992, 20:56
For any interested UFO researchers that use this forum, about a day ago
several crop circles were discovered near my house, following a night of about
a dozen UFO sightings. Does anybody have a theory on how crop circles may be
connected to UFO's? Are they, in fact, landing sites? Please get back to me
on this if interested. Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
--
John Hicks - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Abduction Theory?
Date: 2 Jun 92 06:31:00 GMT
> Rather thay are more likely technicians or, even,
> androids - either mechanical or organic.
> Just a thought.
"Greys" have been said to walk in lockstep, pivot as if in formation, or just
plain stop if confronted with a situation which requires a quick decision...as
if they were "robots."
I don't have any references...just bits and pieces of trivia.
jbh
--
John Hicks - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: MUFON Conference
Date: 2 Jun 92 06:56:39 GMT
Linda, I'm not sure yet whether I'll attend. Budd has been urging me to
go, but I haven't made up my mind yet. Incidentally, I think that Walt Andrus
and I are two of the last remaining people who attended the first one in
Peoria in 1970 (?). I wonder if there is anybody out there who might have
attended who is still involved with the subject of UFOs. It would be nice to
hear from him or her. Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: afglsc.span.nasa.gov!WEBB
Subject: Abd. Conference
Date: 5 Jun 92 15:15:37 GMT
From: WEBB@afglsc.span.nasa.gov
To: Kieth Basterfield
Kieth, I understand you are coming all the way to Boston for the Abd.
Conference! I am now planning to be there and to give a paper, I think soon
after yours on Tues. I wasn't sure until recently that I could attend; I
have been to 3 scientific meetings in the last 5 weeks! I will be talking
at the AC about hypnosis and abductions. It will be good to see you again.
Dave Pritchard has done a great job in getting money for the meeting and
listening to advice and inviting an excellent cross-section of researchers
(and abductees), including you, Jenny Randles, etc., to balance the ETH,
nuts-and-bolts attitude that is so popular in the US. Your comments to Dave
ala FPP and physically missing abductees hit the nail on the head. The
community must be careful to look at all and carefully catalog all of the
data, and not ignore that which does not fit a favored theory. See you
soon, Dave Webb.
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From: Pony.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Pony Godic)
Subject: Abduction Theory?
Date: 7 Jun 92 00:21:00 GMT
> I believe us to be a biological gene pool that they may need to
> probably revitalize themselves. That may be only one purpose
> but racial survival is a pretty powerful motive that would impel
> them to travel as far as necessary, to be able to improve their
> stock, if they have the means to make the trip.
> Also . . . .
Hi Richard,
The idea of a gene pool begs a very much bigger question. If we are a
gene pool for the aliens then we must have a common ancestor. If we
do indeed have a common ancestor, then we must have been seeded on
this planet, or maybe this is a former colony, penal or otherwise, (not
that such an idea is new in itself). I'm no biologist, but it would
seem that genetically we may have a sought after vigour due to the mixing of
races etc. On the other hand, we may be a crop providing genetic
material for other races on behalf of which the current aliens are
acting. Then again they may be looking for something specific. This
is all very interesting, but a little voice keeps telling me that with
our disease plagued lives, short life spans due to the ultimate
disease, old age, that there's very little we could possibly offer to
a race sophisticated enough to cross space and get here. Of course,
all we can do is guess. It's possible that the aliens are suffering
physical decline due to the very nature of their technological
sophistication. None of the above really rings true to me though, I
think whatever is going on, is extremely sophisticated.
> where a psychologist was taken on board a 'craft' and the
> occupants in this case were much more communicative and than are
> most other abduction cases we hear about and 'told' and showed
> this psychologist a lot of things about themselves and their
> purpose here. Hopkins, however, related only the barest
> outlines of this case as, in the chapter, he refused to publish
> everything so as to give other confirming evidence a chance to
> surface.
The above illustrates the adaptability of the alien interaction
thereby revealing the sophistication of their psychological approach.
Contrary to popular believe, I feel that the aliens have an ultra
sophisticated understanding of our psychological makeups re background
and current culture. I know this must sound like a phenomenal and
impossible idea, nevertheless, I feel that the evidence bears it out.
> Now here come the UFO's. Are they alien spaceships? Some
> evidence might strongly point in that direction, depending on
> who is asked that question. The fact remains that, if some of
> these 'unknowns' ARE such things, then for the FIRST time,
> perhaps in history, the balance of power on this world will be
> turned upside down and the English-European descended
> superpowers will suddenly find themselves in the same place as
> they found the New World 'Indians 500 years ago. We will then
> be the primitives confronting the Interstellar Superpower!
> Considering what we have done to each other here on Planet
> Earth, a contact like this, where, this time, WE are at a stark
> DISadvantage is not at all a pleasant event to contemplate.
> That is assuming that THEY conduct THEMSELVES toward us as we
> did toward the Indians back those many centuries . . . .
For me there is sufficient hard evidence in the tiny percentage of
paydirt cases to convince me that UFOs are intersellar machines capable of
phenomenal speed invisibility etc. I think they've been here
throughout recorded history and have constantly adapated themselves to
what we could assimilate at any given point in history. In this
century they've shown us hardware and themselves. We are currently on
the threshhold, re abductions, of something much bigger. Whatever it
is, I believe it will be geared towards minimal damage in us. I
believe the aliens are neither new nor limited in their understanding
of us. In the main we have misidentified, been caught up in mass
hysteria type waves of belief, not to mention hoaxed, all of which has
created a very thick, ultra convenient smoke screen behind which the
aliens continue to operate at a slow and steady pace.
> What THEY DO NOT DO can, in an indirect way become part of a
> possible answer. THEY may respect cultures other than THEIR own
> that are not as technically advanced as THEY are but THEY
> recognize have a right of their own to exist free from the kind
> of consequences that such contact can bring. (Hmmmm, I hope you
> can understand that paragraph. It's kind of clumsy but the best
In all honesty, I doubt anyone from an advanced and civilised society
would be able to actually respect us. Surely the ugliness of our
intolerance, the ferocity of our violence, the bloody-minded greed that
is overpopulating and devestating this planet are not worthy of
respect. Scientifically, the aliens may be clinically and
dispassionately documenting us, but why? Is there some seat of
universal government that is forced to take an interest in all
intelligent beings, no matter what stage of their development?
> We, perhaps may not be the only beings who develop
> inconsistently, that is, overdeveloping in certain areas while
> being behind in others. We know next to nothing about these
> beings' culture but I'm not of the opinion that because THEY can
> do something we at present cannot do -- cross interstellar space
> -- THEY are superbeings at everything else, also. Perhaps THEY
> have this inetrstellar technology but they may have worn
> themselves out by inbreeding. That's just a guess and there are
> biological difficulties with this concept, but that's for
> another message.
I agree that being able to cross space, perform impressive aerobatics,
abduct, experiment and generally behave inscrutably doesn't qualifies the
aliens as superbeings. We should always bear this in mind. Just
because we know nothing of their background, does not mean that the
assumption of superiority is correct. The development of mysical
assumptions just serves to further muddy up the waters. Like I said
earlier, the aliens don't have to make a smoke screen, we're doing
that for them.
Anyway, I'll close here, but I'd like to conclude by saying that all
the above is in the spirit of discussion, I have certain views, but
recognise that I can not validate any of them with evidence, so they
remain ideas that make sense to me, but which I recognise maybe
entirely wrong. I've never seen a UFO, let alone been abducted,
unfortunately!
Cheers, Pony.
--
Pony Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pony.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Marc Michalik)
Subject: Abduction Theory?
Date: 7 Jun 92 00:25:00 GMT
I agree with almost everything you said. I too think that they have,
as far as we are capable of comprehending, always been here. The
moderator would probably stop us but I'd bet we could have a darn
interesting conversation about religion, couldn't we?
--
Marc Michalik - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Missing Abductees
Date: 7 Jun 92 02:25:00 GMT
> If memory serves, Ray Fowler's 'Betty Andreasson' case had at least one
> instance where the abductee was observed by a family member to be still
> in bed during the time when the abduction was taking place. This was
> 'explained' as an imposture by one of the aliens to allay suspicion.
>
> I think we're going to have to make a place for 'non-missing' abductees
> in any comprehensive treatment of the phenomenon.
I also believe that Linda Howe is working with a couple of cases of this sort
as well.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Jake,.Smith@p0.f26.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jake, Smith)
Subject: Biopsy
Date: 8 Jun 92 01:37:00 GMT
I have read that Aleins take biopys of your calf because it heels
very fast. Is this true or is it a figment of someones mind.
--
Jake, Smith - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Jake,.Smith@p0.f26.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Davis)
Subject: Re: Abduction Theory?
Date: 5 Jun 92 20:05:00 GMT
Your thought is well stated. Certainly I have no basis for
disagreement. The main thing is for researchers to remember that we
may not be seeing that with which we are dealing. The obvious parallel
would be our own mechanical space probes. Were we Martians and ran
across a robot lander from Earth, we might be impressed by its actions.
Perhaps amused or perhaps afraid, but, after it clearly did not attack
us, we would probably allow it to decay at its leisure.
While we tend to feel intervention is occuring, the majority of
people feel that abduction cases are at best of passing interest and,
like the prescribed decaying robot, should be left to their own design.
Additionally, we do not know what reality is for our assumed aliens.
That which we call dreams, intuition, etc., may be their reality.
That, of course, opens an entirely new can of worms - in which,
hopefully, we will not find our aliens.
--
Tom Davis - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: MUFON Conference
Date: 8 Jun 92 00:23:00 GMT
Hi David,
Here's hoping you can make it to Albuquerque!
You mentioned attending the first MUFON conf. in 1970. Funny, I didn't
know anything about UFO's then, although I was aware of the Betty and
Barney Hill Story because their story created a big sensation when it
came out.
Best regards,
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Abduction Theory?
Date: 9 Jun 92 06:12:00 GMT
Hi Marc,
In light of some of your recent discussions with Pony, do you think
it's possible (if the aliens have always been around) that they could
have been responsible for the decline of the Roman Empire and the
sudden, incredible power of Christianity?
Thanks,
Linda
--
Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Intruders
Date: 6 Jun 92 16:43:00 GMT
Thanks for your comments on the min series. No doubt it will make its
way down to Australia in several months time. It will be interesting
to see what effect it has here. I've just been preparing a conference
paper on the Australian experience and have reviewed our "missing
time", "abduction-like" and "abduction" cases. On the strict
definition used by CUFOS for an abduction we rate 20 cases from over
the years. The UFORA network covers the country fairly well, and I
compile our bi-monthly "Reearch Digest" covering incoming reports.
Abduction reports have all but dried up of late-no new ones and no one
reporting older abductions. So we will have a clear measure of how
Intruders affects the population in terms of reports coming up.
UFORA conducted a nationa wide search for abduction accounts using the
mass media some while ago-and almost nothing came to light. We are
very fortunate at the moment to be able to research without mass media
interest, e.g. we have no abductee appearing on nation wide TV chat
shows, no best selling authors talking about the subject etc. On the
opposit side, this means we are unable to attract the interest of
health professionals. But in balance, we can research quietly at our
own pace. I wonder if Intruders will bring in a rush of cases? If so,
we do not have the health/therapist professionals to handle it.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Sleep research 1
Date: 6 Jun 92 16:55:00 GMT
Over the last few years I have been researching various aspects of
sleep and the relationships some sleep phenomenon may have on
abduction and UFO research, particularly the bedroom invaders type
material-noting that many abductions/close encounters happen in the
bedroom often on the sleep/awake interface.
So, the following comments are intended to get you thinking, and
diving for your nearest reference materials on sleep.
1. Sleep paralysis: Most people I have asked about their sleep habits
can recall at least one instance of sleep paralysis. Here they
find themselves paralysed when either falling asleep, or wake during
the night to find themselves paralysed. Nothing to do with abductions,
except...some people when awaken paralysed, feel a sense of a
"presence" in the room. Some may even see something present.
Current medical knowledge, availaible in the medical literature, is
that sleep paralysis where your muscles appear not to be unbder your
control, is due to the appearance of REM(rapid eye movement-dream
sleep) intruding into you when you are in fact awake. Weird! The
reason you don't jump out of bed and act out the motions occurring in
your dreams is because your brain reduces the toning of your muscles
during dreaming (REM sleep) so you are immobile. Sleep paralaysis is
this same action but you are actually awake. Go back and read some of
Whitley Striber's recolelctions in Communion in light of this
knowledge.
US medical surveys suggest sleep paralysis runs in families over
several generations-if you've got it,m chances are good your mother
and father, grandparents etc experienced sleep paralysis. The rported
incidence in the literature is about 3-6% of the US population. My own
surveys would suggest almost everyone has experienced it at least once
in a lifetime.
More next message.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Sleep research 2
Date: 6 Jun 92 17:05:00 GMT
2. Sleep narcolepsy: Symptoms are attacks of sleep, even during the
day when you are wide awake, feling weak, sleep paralysis and
hypnagogic imagery of various types. Hypnagogic imagery, can take
various forms including patches of light rhough to complex "real as
real"scenes played out before your eyes. Here a peson actually,
instead of falling asleep through sleep stages 1-4 goes straight from
being awake to REM-dream sleep. Research has shown a cause associated
with the brains neurtransmitting chemicals.
3. Sleep walking: Abductees talk of drifting out to a UFO. Sleep
walking ovccurs to normal, healthy people with a degree of anxiety.
The individual is by definiton and brain wave analysis "asleep."
However, they walk around with eyes open (while "asleep") ,
manouevering around objects in their path, can make coffee whiulst in
this state, hang curtains (from my own surveys) etc. How can they be
both "awake" and "asleep" simultaneously? Relevance to abductions:
indicating unusual states of consciousness we accept as genuine, and
very importantly most sleepwalkers when told of their exploits by
anyone who sees them usually has no memory of them the next day!
4. Night terrors: Imagine waking up in the night screaming, with your
pulse racing 160 beats a minute, drenched in sweat and terrifying
anyone sleeping with you. This happens to some people. It occurs
mainly during the early parts of the night, and these terrifyiong
epiosdes are almsot never remembered the next day!
I'm not suggesting that the above are explanations for abductions,
only that there are numerous examples of alteredt states of
consciousness which can involve little or no memory recall on the part
of the indviduals who experience them. Some aspects of abductions
certainly do bear on these sleep phenomenon and therefore should be
researched, published in UFO literature, and discussed. Very few
researchers seem to know about such phenomenon, and that is why I
bring them to your attention.
As I have mentioned before, I believe we, UFOlogists need to openly
research such things, and we should be the ones, eciding if they bear
on abduction research. If we do not, then the sceptics certainly will
do so.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Non-missing abductees
Date: 7 Jun 92 17:44:00 GMT
Thank you to those who commented about the importance of also looking
at abduction events where people were physically present when an
abduction occurred. Naturally, this does not automatically invoke a
psychological explanation for the abduction-perhaps their mind was
taken somewhere. However, it does give us food for thought.
I would like to ask anyone else who has come across such cases to post
detials here, and particularly a source for the information, so that
we can all read the original data.
Does anyone have a more detailed source for the cases Roger Black
recalled?
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Intruders
Date: 11 Jun 92 06:17:00 GMT
Hi Keith,
I wonder myself if INTRUDERS had any effect on the general population
here. Probably most people don't believe it, and faithful readers of
Paranet thought some parts were hokey.
Keep up the good work!
Linda Bird
--
Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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********************************************************************************
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Abduction Digest, Number 66
Tuesday, July 7th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
*****B*U*L*L*E*T*I*N***B*U*L*L*E*T*I*N***B*U*L*L*E*T*I*N***B*U*L*L*E*T*I*N*****
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Today's Topics:
"Vision"
Re: "Vision"
M.I.T. meeting
Physically present
Again
MIT conference
Who is an Abductee?
Who is an abductee?
Again
Silent Invasion
Silent Invasion
Crop Circles in Indiana?
What's happening
What's Happening
Ring's "Omega Project"
Intruders
Abduction Meaning
Who is an Abductee?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: "Vision"
Date: 24 Jun 92 07:00:00 GMT
Linda Bird writes:
>
> Well, I just wanted to share this; it truly was
> horrifying--just imagine the scene in your mind. Any
> ideas? Comments?
It seems hard to imagine why you would have been scared, but I
guess it's just a matter of personality. Some of us *enjoy*
things like that. Anyway, I probably would have tried to stick
my finger in there. Typical *guy* thing to do, huh? :-)
-- John
--
John Burke - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: "Vision"
Date: 25 Jun 92 06:13:00 GMT
Hi John,
Yep, sticking your finger in the hole I saw would have been something a
guy would do. <g> The thing is, I could see depth to this hole, and I
probably could HAVE put my finger in it. **Yikes!**
Linda
--
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From: Don.Newman@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Newman)
Subject: M.I.T. meeting
Date: 26 Jun 92 14:57:00 GMT
I understand that a slect group of abduction researchers(along with
some abducties) had a meeting at M.I.T. about mid June. Please pass
on what the agenda and what the conclusions,if any, were. Thanks Don.
--
Don Newman - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Physically present
Date: 26 Jun 92 02:45:00 GMT
The IUR has just accepted an article by myself, describing the full
story of the Maureen Puddy case from Australia in 1972/73. It is
scheduled to appear in the next IUR.
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From: Bill.Skiles@p7.f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Skiles)
Subject: Again
Date: 26 Jun 92 07:55:00 GMT
David, we had another experience last night, I think.
I went to bed late last night as we are on vacation around the house. Stayed up
till 2:00 a.m. and couldn't get to sleep. The fear came over me that the
(whatevers) were going to return. I just couldn't fall asleep and kept waking
up feeling that they were near. About 3:00 a.m. I woke up my wife and told her
that I was feeing afraid. She said she would stay awake for a while. I finally
fell asleep after that and all seemed to be just my imagination until.....
This morning when my wife said to me that although she was FULLY
awake last night, for some reason she fell imediately asleep
and she never does that. She said she had a strange dream
last night. I asked her what? She said she dreamed that her and I were in our
bed BUT we were floating in some kind of atmosphere. She said it was thicker
than air but lighter than water. And she said that we were not alone. I said
what do you mean? She said that floating around the bed there were
6-8 GREY dolphins with BIG BLACK eyes. And they were just
starring at us. She said she was looking at them and thinking,
"this isn't right." She said that she was also wondering why their eyes, the
dolphin's, were in front.
She said that until now she thought that maybe I was just getting carried away
with this stuff, but now she's scared.
We live out in the middle of nowhere, in the country. There is ample
opportunity to be visited any night. She wanted me to ask you if you had come
up with ANY kind of detriment. Is there any way to fight this?
P.S. What about the questionaire?
Thanks for any help.
Bill
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: MIT conference
Date: 28 Jun 92 07:39:15 GMT
The participants in the MIT conference were sworn to uphold a vow of
noncommunication about the content of the MIT conference until the proceedings
are published. While I have problems with this, I did in fact sign the "oath"
which binds me. However, it was pretty much what you would expect in an
abduction conference. I don't know when the proceedings will be out, but I
expect by the end of the year.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Who is an Abductee?
Date: 28 Jun 92 08:18:29 GMT
I must say that I am quite puzzled by your defense of the idea that anybody
who claims to be an abductee is therefore an abductee. I had assumed that you
would most certainly agree with my position that every case must be competently
investigated before we can tell for sure what, if anything, happened. I am
afraid that I must strongly disagree with your position. I believe that
careful, systematic, investigation of each and every case, regardless of
claims, and regardless even of consciously recalled memories, is of the utmost
importance. Science will not be advanced without the development of methodology
that will enable us to build the factual data to which you allude in your
message.
I am also quite astonished by your statement that "witnessed non-physical
abductions involve all the elements of non-witnessed abductions." I am
assuming that by "non-physical abductions" you mean those in which the person
was witnessed to be physically in place durign the alleged event. I must say
that in the 350 abductions that I have looked into and in the many hundreds
that Budd Hopkins has investigated, the channeled abduction accounts,
delusionary abduction accounts, invented abduction accounts, and the like,
made by people who might think that they were abducted but who were not, are
quite different and easily recognizable by an experienced researcher. You
might wish to look at the books that Hopkins and I have written and compare
them to the information contained in the non-physical abductions. I think that
you will find that the answer to the question that you correctly ask about
whether there is a difference between witnessed non-physical abductions and
non-witnessed (or for that matter, witnessed) physical abductions, is most
assuredly, yes.
Keith Basterfield says that hypnosis is illegal in Australia unless
performed by an M.D. and that there are very few of them in the country who
have expressed any interest in doing this type of work. I think that this
state of affairs has severely handicapped your effort to get to the truth of
what is happening in each event. I hope that this will soon change.
I closing, let me reiterate that there are people who think that they have
been abducted and who have not. The Rodeghier definition is good as far as it
goes, but it needs revising on several points not the least ow which is to
allow for the role of investigation in all cases. We are still in the
sorting-out stage of research and just because one researcher comes out with a
definition does not mean that it is writ in stone forever.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Who is an abductee?
Date: 28 Jun 92 08:44:50 GMT
The problem of telling whether a person is an abductee or is not is a
matter of investigation and establishing a number of things about the person's
credibility, motivations, and so forth. In many ways it is similar to the
problems engendered by UFO researchers in the early 1950s when they wre trying
to decide whether a person had actually seen a UFO or not. Ultimately,
deciding on the truthfulness of the witness depends on the patterns established
by experience within the abduction phenomenon since the Hill case (or even
Vilas Boas). Finding out exactly what happened on a detailed level is even
more difficult. The patterns that I outlined in my book were the product of a
great deal of digging, thinking, luck, acticulate abductees, and a touch of
inspiration. Even then we have a problem. Now that the book is out it will
be much easier to absorb the material and repeat it when inventing a bogus
abduction tale. We all have to be even more careful than ever before.
Of course we have many multiple abduction cases in which the person was
abducted along with others. We have cases in which the witnesses were
"switched off" and not abducted with others. We have a few cases in which
there were uninvolved witnesses to an abduction event. The problem is what do
we do with the great mass of cases in which the person was alone during the
abduction event? Once again, we must rely on the patterns that have been
established, the veracity of the witness, and so on. We do know quite a bit
about what happens in an abduction now. It is not like we are floundering
around with great masses of data that we do not know what to do with, although
heaven knows that problem does exist. Still sorting out exactly what happens
during an abduction is going to be a matter of standardizing methodology and
education. We are still just beginning to do this but I think that before
long we will have accomplished it.
Right now, let us not get side-tracked into areas like "imaginal" realms
or Strieberism. These are ideas thought up out of whole cloth without a
particle of evidence to back them up. The overwhelming preponderance of the
evidence suggests that the abduction event is a physical event that happens to
victims. If we keep on the straight and narrow and investigate abductions
from this perspective, I think that we will gain the most knowledge. If we go
off into other directions, that is o.k., but let us not get confused about
what is actually happening. There has already been an enormous amount of
wheel spinning and I would hate to see others begin the spinning all over
again. Just because a person dreams up a theory does not mean that it has
any value and that it has to be taken seriously.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
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David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Marc Michalik)
Subject: Again
Date: 29 Jun 92 22:01:00 GMT
Anyway to fight it? It may not sound practicle but I have been
"taken" (I hate the word abducted because people think it's a big
joke) and I think that I have found a way to prevent further
"visits". Don't go to sleep when it is dark outside and carry a
gun. Several reports that I have seen indicate that the EBEs avoid
weapons like the plague. A large caliber pistol (such as a 9mm) in
a shoulder holster should be sufficient. Most, if not all,
abductions happen at night while in bed, if you don't go to sleep
until 5:30 A.M. or so they don't have a chance to take you at night.
I do these things now and haven't had any problems. But then, I was
only taken once twelve years ago and hadn't had anymore problems
anyway. I just feel better taking these precautions.
--
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From: Alan.Decker@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Alan Decker)
Subject: Silent Invasion
Date: 2 Jul 92 01:24:00 GMT
David, Many thanks and hats off to you for your fine effort, "Secret
Life". As I can see you are aware, it is a work that is long past
due. Best of luck getting more "professionals" to help out, also
long past due. I called in on.... Sorry, will have to continue this
message in another post.
--
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From: Alan.Decker@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Alan Decker)
Subject: Silent Invasion
Date: 2 Jul 92 01:58:00 GMT
David, to continue last message, I was about to say that I called in
on Don's radio show when you guested, to protest your (and Don's)
presumtion that "if the aliens were going to take over, they could
have done so a long time ago, so at least we don't have to worry
about that". I hope I didn't come across too strong, but it bothers
me when anyone presumes to know the aliens motives, capabilities, or
plans. Terrestrial chauvinism, if you will. I do not claim to be
able to anticipate the aliens next move, but if I were invading an
alien planet, even I can think of several reasons why a gradual,
silent takeover would be preferable to an immediate, blast- em,
war-of-the-worlds type scenario.
While it is one of the most unpleasant possibilities to
consider, it is a very real one, nonetheless.
Alan
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From: David.Brune@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Brune)
Subject: Crop Circles in Indiana?
Date: 2 Jul 92 17:58:00 GMT
All,
Has anyone heard or seen any reports lately of UFO sightings and/or crop circle
reports in the Indiana area?
David
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: What's happening
Date: 1 Jul 92 06:59:02 GMT
Bill, your wifes's behavior and dream are suspicious. It is impossible to
tell exactly what has happened until proper, competent, investigation has been
accomplished. Budd and I are going to be conducting a series of workshops
around the country for psychiatrists and psychologists who are interested in
learning more about the subject. I hope that eventually we can have somebody
in your area who will be available to do this kind of work.
I don't know exactly what happened the other night, but you and your wife
can give each other the support that you both might require. It is important
to be able to deal with this phenomenon with someone else. You are lucky to
have this support because there are many who do not. The best I can say is
that you are not alone, there are many, many, others who have had the same
experiences that you have related before. I wish that I could just tell you
what to do and then it would alleviate the situation, but unfortunately I can
not. We just don't know what to do. We have no way of stopping it. When I
work with people, I tell them that I cannot give physical control, the only
thing that we can do is work toward intellectual and emotional control. If
that is achieved, I think that I have won a victory.
Hang on. Hold Tight. Let's see if we can up up with somebody in the
near future who you can work with in your area. Incidentally, the questionnaire
is in the mail.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
--
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: What's Happening
Date: 3 Jul 92 17:42:01 GMT
Although I realize that there is a limited amount of information which can be
discussed about the recent MIT conference, I would appreciate your sharing
with us what the goals and objectives were for that meeting.
Thanks Dave.
Mike
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From: Doug.Morrow@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Morrow)
Subject: Ring's "Omega Project"
Date: 4 Jul 92 00:28:00 GMT
David,
I am in the process of reading Kenneth Ring's new book "The Omega
Project". He presents some interesting thoughts on the relationship
between UFO encounters and Near Death Experiences.
Are you aware of his work? If so, do you have any comments on it?
--
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Intruders
Date: 30 Jun 92 23:50:00 GMT
The mini series "Intruders" is about to be shown this weekend down
here in Australia. It will be interesting to see what affect this has
on the reporting rate of abductions. The UFORA network has only
recorded one possible new abduction case in the last few months. I'll
keep you posted.
--
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From: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Pony Godic)
Subject: Abduction Meaning
Date: 2 Jul 92 08:38:00 GMT
David,
As Linda Bird's recent write up on the appearance of a space hole in a book
evidences, almost everyone has had one or more bizarre experiences in life.
Some are so way out, that no matter how hard you think, you can't find a
meaning. I thought really hard on Linda's experience but could think of no
plausible explanation. Anyway, my point is that when we have extraordinary
experiences we seek an answer and on occasion that answer is itself
extraordinary.
Now, bearing in mind the public awareness of abduction phenomena, via the media
and books, it seems possible to me that people are in danger of trying to
understand unusual experiences in their lives using abduction indicators as a
tool.
I'm most defintely not saying here that abductions don't take place. I've seen
some very compelling cases that really could not be understood in any other way
than as abductions. On the other hand, I believe that psychological factors in
a given person's personality may cause them to decide they've been abducted
when they haven't. But, I also believe that any person who has a series of
unexplained events in their background may, in a genuine search for meaning,
tie them together as an abduction and I think it's important to be aware of
this. To illustrate this, I can talk from my own experience:
When I was about 7, I recall my younger sister being put to bed in the middle
of the night. I saw her stand up in her cot and yet it also seemed to be me.
The cot floated up into the air and there were brilliant stars shooting and
flashing in pinks and greens and yellows etc.
agaist the black night sky.
Now I don't know why my younger sister was being put to bed late, but I've no
doubt that I dreamed a particularly vivid dream and I even know the source. A
"Rupert" book I had. (I don't know if you have these in the U.S. I think
they're originally English. Rupert is a bear who wore clothes).
A couple of years later, I was lying in bed one night and there were three
people floating up around the upper walls. The ceilings were high. The people
were invisible. They seemed to have no bodies, only big faces half in and half
out the wall. There seemed to be 2 men and a woman. They were all discussing
me. I listened curiously and next day told my parents about it. They told me
that people who hear voices that aren't there end up in the nut house - end of
Pony hearing voices.
In about my early 20s (I'm 40 now), I was telling my younger brother and sister
that I used to have this dream about how a UFO came over the back yard of where
we used to live in the country as kids. I related that I was behind the
tankstand behind the laundry and heard someone cry out and that I came running
out to see the UFO. My younger sister said she had exactly the same dream, but
she came out from a different directin to see it. In her dream, the aliens
landed and got out of the UFO and, having paralysed her, came for her. My
brother said he dreamed the same dream, but he came from another direction
again. I always thought that terribly interesting. A few years later, I
mentioned the dream, my brother not only didn't remember the dream, he didn't
remember the discussion in which we realized we dreamed the same dream from
different angles. My younger sister was very vague. I think it obvious that
we all got caught up in the conversation and attached meaning where there was
no meaning.
Now to recent times. When Vladimir and I moved up here (from Adelaide to
Cairns - literally from one end of Australia to the other) in mid November last
year, I had 2 interesting experiences on the long stretch of road between
Broken Hill and Neferti. At dusk I saw what can best be described as a
Tasmanian Tiger, extinct on the Australian mainland as well as in Tasmania. A
friend of mine submitted a report to the SA Museum and they said I did appear
to see a Tasmanian Tiger even though they are extinct. Anyway, the stripes
were in the wrong place and my sighting was of a creature that I feel was
longer in body and tail, so I'm not going to claim a TT sighting, still it was
an interesting experience to have had. But, it's not the relevant experience.
That happened some time later in the dark. The road we were travelling was
infested with kangaroos and wallabies and ran through flat scrubland as far as
the eye could see in any direction. It was very isolated and at night even more
so. Anyway, we were driving along at a slow pace, straining our eyes in our
efforts not to hit a kangaroo, when all of a sudden out of the darkness I saw
two green forms not only looming but seeming to advance upon us. They had very
broad shoulders and narrow waists. There were long arms, but the heads and
legs were not caught in the car headlights, so I didn't see them. They seemed
so big and so humanoid in shape, and seemed to actually be coming for us, that
I gasped so loudly that Vladimir asked me what was wrong. Well, of course, I
knew immediately that I had seen two trees that were of the shape described and
that the angle of the car headlights and our speed added to the illusion of
humanoid shape and movement.
Now the point of all the above is that I am aware that these are all separate
incidents and that they are all entirely mundane in origin. I assure you I
have a very vivid imagination which no doubt was a contributing factor.
Nevertheless, I have not tried to find a meaning in the meaningless, but many
people may indulge in that exercise and end up being researched as abductees.
I bring this to your attention because I feel that the search for meaning is
something that must be born in mind in abduction research, particularly when
one considers the numbers of abductions are escalating.
Cheers, Pony.
--
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From: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Who is an Abductee?
Date: 5 Jul 92 00:26:00 GMT
> I must say that I am quite puzzled by your defense of the idea
> that anybody who claims to be an abductee is therefore an
> abductee. I had assumed that you would most certainly agree
Since I never said or infered the above, I am puzzled by it. Nevertheless,
lets's not get distracted by our mutual puzzlement.
> with my position that every case must be competently
> investigated before we can tell for sure what, if anything,
> happened. I am afraid that I must strongly disagree with your
> position. I believe that careful, systematic, investigation of
> each and every case, regardless of claims, and regardless even
> of consciously recalled memories, is of the utmost importance.
I'm tempted to comment on the above in the context of it being a psychological
ploy. But, let's keep it simple. I don't know what you perceive my position
to be, however, it is a straight forward belief in information sharing and
objective scientific investigation by those with the ability to do so. Of
course, one cannot evaluate the worth of any research after publication in the
popular media, especially when a wealth of background information is not
shared. Again, I repeat my call for refereed works.
> Science will not be advanced without the development of
> methodology that will enable us to build the factual data to
> which you allude in your message.
>
Methodology develops out of shared information, intelligent discussion and
participation by more than one or two researchers.
>I am also quite astonished by your statement that
> "witnessed non-physical abductions involve all the elements of
> non-witnessed abductions." I am assuming that by "non-physical
> abductions" you mean those in which the person was witnessed to
> be physically in place durign the alleged event. I must say
> that in the 350 abductions that I have looked into and in the
> many hundreds that Budd Hopkins has investigated, the channeled
> abduction accounts, delusionary abduction accounts, invented
> abduction accounts, and the like, made by people who might think
> that they were abducted but who were not, are quite different
> and easily recognizable by an experienced researcher. You
> might wish to look at the books that Hopkins and I have written
> and compare them to the information contained in the non-
> physical abductions. I think that you will find that the
> answer to the question that you correctly ask about whether
> there is a difference between witnessed non-physical abductions
> and non-witnessed (or for that matter, witnessed) physical
> abductions, is most assuredly, yes.
>
It is interesting to note, that one researcher's conclusion may not be
anothers, this is why information sharing, vigorous discussion and refereed
articles, in intelligent journals, are so vital.
> Keith Basterfield says that hypnosis is illegal in
> Australia unless performed by an M.D. and that there are very
> few of them in the country who have expressed any interest in
> doing this type of work. I think that this state of affairs
> has severely handicapped your effort to get to the truth of
> what is happening in each event. I hope that this will soon
> change.
>
Although we may not be suffering an inundation of abduction reports here in
Australia, it doesn't mean that we lack the ability to objectively evaluate the
subject as a whole.
> I closing, let me reiterate that there are people who think
> that they have been abducted and who have not. The Rodeghier
> definition is good as far as it goes, but it needs revising on
> several points not the least ow which is to allow for the role
> of investigation in all cases. We are still in the sorting-out
> stage of research and just because one researcher comes out
> with a definition does not mean that it is writ in stone
> forever.
Without getting personal, I must in all honesty say that you, in
company with Budd Hopkins, appear to present yourselves as "the" leading
researchers with the experience and track record to have a more informed
opinion than anyone else. This disturbes me, because no area of UFO research
should be monopolised. There are other researchers contributing to abduction
debate and just because they are not "the" researchers, doesn't mean their
work is invalid.
--
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Abduction Digest, Number 67
Monday, July 13th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Silent Invasion
What's happening
Intruders
Silent Invasion
Workshops
MIT Conference
Omega Project
Who is an abductee?
Ambiguities
Workshops
Omega Project
Ambiguities
Who is an abductee?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Silent Invasion
Date: 4 Jul 92 07:04:15 GMT
I would like to think you for your kind words about my book, it is always
nice to hear positive feedback. I am afraid that I have to agree with you
about the possibility of invasion on a more overt level. One of the things that
historians learn very quickly is that you cannot predict the future. While it
is certainly true that if invasion is on the aliens minds, they could have
accomplished it a long time ago. It is also true that the end-product of the
abduction scenario could be a full-scale invasion in the future. It is also
true that a more sinister, covert, invasion could also be in the works.
Anything is possible. Right now we have to stick to what is known. They
could have invaded if they wanted to and they didn't. I think that is a
positive note in our favor.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: What's happening
Date: 4 Jul 92 03:24:00 GMT
> conducting a series of workshops around the country for psychiatrists
> and psychologists who are interested in learning more about the
> subject.
Please post a schedule for the workshops when you're ready to hold them. I
know a local psychologist who'd be very interested, plus I know a psychiatric
staff chief whose curiosity might just get the better of him.
jbh
--
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From: David.Brune@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Brune)
Subject: Intruders
Date: 6 Jul 92 04:37:00 GMT
Keith,
Please do! It will be interesting to see if 'Intruders' does anything for the
UFO phenomena in your neck of the woods.
I would be especially interested in any sighting or abduction data that may
come up.
David
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From: Alan.Decker@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Alan Decker)
Subject: Silent Invasion
Date: 7 Jul 92 06:51:00 GMT
One of the things that your work brings to the surface is the
"bonding" process. I have wondered for some time at what point the
abductee's terror and fear suddenly change to "love and compassion"
for their abductors. I mean, It seems perfectly natural to feel
abject horror over what you are being subjected to, but
once you are on the "table", suddenly all is forgiven, everything is
fine, and you feel just peachy- keen! I imagined it to be either
drugs or technology or a combination. I suspect the "bonding"
procedure to be the main culprit in molding the hostage's feelings
towards the "visitor's" favor.
Alan
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Workshops
Date: 7 Jul 92 05:44:20 GMT
John, the workshops are being given to interested psychiatrists, psychologists,
and psychiatric social workers who mailed in a special card that was included
in the Roper Poll booklet. The first one will be in New York City in mid-July.
After that they will be held around the country, we hope. It means a lot of
work for Budd and I but we feel that this is worth it.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: MIT Conference
Date: 7 Jul 92 05:50:40 GMT
The MIT conference was set up by Dave Pritchard and John Mack. It had
several goals. The first, I guess, was to bring together the major researchers
in the abduction area and have them share data to see what everyone has been
able to come up with. The second goal, I think, was to produce the proceedings
which will, it was hoped, act as a scientific guide to the abduction phenomenon
that scientists and professionals could refer to for solid information. My
guess is that the third goal was to allow the abduction research community to
find out where the state of art is these days. I am not sure that all these
goals were met, but at least it was a good, and valuable, attempt that can
only be seen as another step in the important goal of professionalization.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Omega Project
Date: 7 Jul 92 05:55:01 GMT
Doug, I wrote a detailed critique of Kenneth Ring's article on the Omega
Project in the current issue of the JOURNAL OF UFO STUDIES. I am afraid that
I was not very impressed with the article or his findings. I thought that the
study was ill-conceived and told us very little about anything. The only point
that was interesting is that he could not find any evidence that the Fantasy
Prone Personality theory was a major player in abductions or Near Death
Experiences. However, the study was so poor, that I am not even sure that he
established that.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Who is an abductee?
Date: 7 Jul 92 06:23:43 GMT
Pony, Thank you very much for your message. I certainly agree that strange
events happen to people that are not apparently related to the abduction
phenomenon. When a person contacts me to find out the origin of these strange
events, I usually talk with him or her for quite a long time on the phone at
first. I want to ascertain whether that person is suffering from mental
illness, delusions, or some other form of psychological generation of
paranormal events. I do this by asking a series of about twenty-five questions
designed to elicity most of the unusual experiences that a person can remember
having occurred to him or her. The people who, in my judgement, are not
abductees I do not work with. I tell them that the origin of their experiences
lies outside of my expertize and I try to refer them to someone else. If they
are seriously psychologically disturbed, I refer them to a therapist and tell
them that I am not equipped to work with them.
One person told me that he had had an out of body experience once. He was
hooked up to umpteen IV's and medical equipment. He was in the hospital for a
life-threatening illness. His mother was next to him. He floated up to the
ceiling and saw his body in the bed and his mother looking up at him. I
judged that this, obviously, had nothing to do with the abduction phenomenon.
I have also had occassion to do hypnosis with several individuals who thought
that they might be abductees. After the sessions, I judged that these
individuals were not, in fact, abductees even though they were very suspicious
that they were.
I think that the publication of my book makes it easier for a person to
fake an abduction, and it also makes it easier for a person to absorb abduction
material and then repeat it back to the researcher as if it happened to him or
her. It must be said, however, that in my experience, and in Budd Hopkins',
the latter problem is not nearly as big or widespread as is thought. It is
extremely important to screen each and every potential abductee so that the
researcher knows what he or she is actually researching.
It is also important to be very careful about how one does the screening.
One must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Inexperienced
researchers have said that good abduction cases were a hoax because various
aspects of the case were found to be contradictory or the witness was not as
helpful as the investigator desired. What is even more important, is that the
abduction phenomenon is extremely widespread and its hints and clues can be
easily overlooked by even the most experienced UFO investigators. My best guess
is that thousands of abduction events are couched behind UFO sightings and
have been filed away in the cabinets of hundreds of UFO researchers over the
years.
Pony, I cannot comment on what has happened to you personally. It is most
probable that your explanation of the events is absolutely correct and I am
going to leave it at that.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Ambiguities
Date: 7 Jul 92 07:10:59 GMT
Vladmir, I hope that we are finally moving to concensus. To clear up your
puzzlement, I had assumed that if you adhered to the Rodeghier definition of
abductees, then it would automatically mean that you agreed with propostion
that anybody who claims to be an abductee is therefore an abductee. That is
what the Rodgehier definition allows. If you do not feel that this is the
case, then you and I are in agreement that the Rodeghier definition should be
amended. I hope this clears it up for you.
I could not help but notice that you appear to be rather centered on the
idea that there would be such a thing as leading UFO researchers. You have made
the leap into the idea that this is a self-serving statement on my part. To the
best of my knowledge when the definition of abductions was conceived it was not
done in consultation with Dick Haines, John Carpenter, John E. Mack, Budd
Hopkins, or Dave Jacobs. I understand that Rodeghier had a perfect right to
say anything that he wanted to in print. I also think that he could have
avoided quite a lot of imprecision and problems if he had consulted with those
individuals, and others.
I certainly agree with your sentiments about sharing data and publishing
in refereed journals. In the United States there are only two refereed
journals that publish pro-abduction material, THE JOURNAL OF UFO STUDIES and
THE JOURNAL OF SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION. Every once in a while a psychological
journal will publish an article showing how UFOs or abductions are related to
some other phenomenon, but for the main the normal channels of scientific
information sharing are closed off to UFO reseachers. The same is true in the
book publishing world. You might be aware of the fact that my first book, THE
UFO CONTROVERSY IN AMERICA, remains the only authored book on UFOs that takes
a pro-UFO stance ever to be published by a refereed press--and that was in
1975! I originally gave my manuscript for SECRET LIFE to Temple University
Press--a very good press. They had it for three months and never even bothered
to look at it. So the situation for abduction and UFO articles in refereed
journals and presses remains fairly dismal. But, I am sure that you will join
with me in hoping that the quality of our work will increase and that the
arbitrary decisions of the refereed journals and presses will become more
liberal so that we can meet in the middle and have a wider spread of scientific
information.
Finally, although I agree that a certain amount of information can be
derived from conscious recollections of abduction material, I feel that being
deprived of the very powerful weapon of hypnosis which is so uniquely suited
for this type of work, places you are at a distinct disadvantage. Until
Australian researchers learn to work around this problem, and there are ways
to do this, or until medical professionals not only get interested in the
situation but also learn enough about doing research in it to be competent at
it, abduction research will be enormously more difficult in an area that is
already extremely difficult.
Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Workshops
Date: 8 Jul 92 17:06:00 GMT
DJ> John, the workshops arfe being given to interested
DJ> psychiatrists, psychologists, and psychiatric social
DJ> workers who mailed in a special card that was included in
DJ> the Roper Poll booklet.
Sounds _very_ worthwhile. I hope those docs are curious enough to set
aside their preconceived notions and pay attention.
jbh
--
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From: Doug.Morrow@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Morrow)
Subject: Omega Project
Date: 10 Jul 92 22:16:00 GMT
David,
I have finished his book, and I am surprised that you feel it was
ill concieved. From my understanding, he was trying to demonstrate
that individuals who have UFO encounters and others that have NDEs
share a number of common traits. It seemed that his statistical
study did support that conclusion.
Do you fault his basic hypothsis, his methods or his analysis? It
seemed to me that all have some measure of value, and that it may be
to early to dismiss his ideas and findings outright.
Also, you said that he did not find any evidence of Fantasy Prone
Personalities in his studies, which is true, but he did find what he
called "Encounter" Prone Personalities. Do you accept that there may
be something to that, or are you convinced that few abductees share
any similar, pre-existing psychological traits?
Thanks, Doug
--
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Ambiguities
Date: 11 Jul 92 05:57:01 GMT
+ I certainly agree with your sentiments about sharing data and
+ publishing in refereed journals. In the United States there are only
+ two refereed journals that publish pro-abduction material, THE JOURNAL
+ OF UFO STUDIES and THE JOURNAL OF SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION. Every once
+ in a while a psychological journal will publish an article showing how
+ UFOs or abductions are related to some other phenomenon, but for the
+ main the normal channels of scientific information sharing are closed
+ off to UFO reseachers. The same is true in the book publishing world.
+ You might be aware of the fact that my first book, THE UFO CONTROVERSY
+ IN AMERICA, remains the only authored book on UFOs that takes a pro-UFO
+ stance ever to be published by a refereed press--and that was in 1975!
+ I originally gave my manuscript for SECRET LIFE to Temple University
+ Press--a very good press. They had it for three months and never even
+ bothered to look at it. So the situation for abduuction and UFO
+ articles in refereed journals and presses remains fairly dismal. But,
+ I am sure that you will join with me in hoping that the quality of our
+ work will increase and
+ that the arbitrary decisions of the refereed journals and presses will
+ become more liberal so that we can meet in the middle and have a wider
+ spread of scientific information.
David. I am wondering what should be done by the legit UFO researchers to
bring this problem to bear in the right arenas? I agree: Temple University
is a fine press. Given your status there, what could they possibly say to
justify their inaction for publishing your material?
Mike
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From: Bill.Skiles@p7.f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Skiles)
Subject: Who is an abductee?
Date: 10 Jul 92 03:38:00 GMT
+ The people who, in my judgement, are not abductees I do not work with.
+ It is extremely important to screen each and every potential abductee so that
+ the researcher knows what he or she is actually researching.
+ It is also important to be very careful about how one does the screening.
David, is there any way a person can screen themselves,
so that they don't have to bother researchers unless and/or
until they can acertain that they are an abductee?
Bill
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Abduction Digest, Number 68
Monday, July 20th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
The MIT Conference
Who is an abductee?
Ambiguities
Bonding
Omega Project
Legitimacy
Screening
The MIT Conference
Received
Screening
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Anson.Kennedy@p0.f25.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Anson Kennedy)
Subject: The MIT Conference
Date: 15 Jul 92 04:45:00 GMT
I am not sure if you get the Paranet Skeptics Conference (I hope you do, I'm
the moderator :-)
Anyway, I have started a thread there about the recent conference at MIT.
Specifically, I am concerned about the confidentiality agreement all
participants were required to sign.
If you could pop on over and lend your (firsthand) thoughts on the matter, I'd
appreciate it.
Thanks.
-- Anson
--
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From: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Pony Godic)
Subject: Who is an abductee?
Date: 14 Jul 92 23:41:00 GMT
> It is also important to be very careful about how one does
> the screening. One must be careful not to throw the baby out
> with the bathwater. Inexperienced researchers have said that
> good abduction cases
> were a hoax because various aspects of the case were found to
> be contradictory or the witness was not as helpful as the
> investigator desired. What is even more important, is that the
> abduction phenomenon is extremely widespread and its hints and
> clues can be easily overlooked by even the most experienced UFO
> investigators. My best guess is that thousands of abduction
> events are couched behind UFO sightings and have been filed
> away in the cabinets of hundreds of UFO researchers over the
> years.
David,
Thank you for your reply in its entirety, it was of considerable interest to
me. However, I do remain concerned over how often there's actually a baby in
the bathwater. Clearly I am not an abductee, but I think, considering I
sometimes wake up in the night like I've been switched on, plus the fact that I
have long dreamed about UFOs (classic wish fullfilment dreams. The UFO is
always a neon blue with neon pink windows. The one time I recall going on
board , the aliens were bipedal ant-like creatures.) I could very easily
convince myself that I am an abductee. Again, I stress that I have seen cases
so compelling in every way that I am definitely not saying abductions don't
happen. I just question the very rubbery indicators. Also, I worry that people
like me, and I think the majority of people have had small and interesting
things happen to them, may pick something out from background experiences such
as I outlined and decide that this one thing is not imaginatively generated.
For example, it's definitely not an everyday event, nevertheless, it's not
extraordinary for me to see things that aren't there, particularly to wake and
see people standing by the bed at night. I went through a small series of
bedroom visitors about ten years ago. One night I woke and saw a nun in a
discoloured grey-blue heshan type of habit, which covered her face, standing up
by Vladimir's head. She reminded me of a situation in a TV show I saw once,
not a person. Then on another night, around the same time, I saw a man with a
lantern down by the door. He was like the aliens in "This Island Earth" and
his lantern reminded me of the Hermit in the Tarot. Then, around the same
time, I turned over in bed one night and saw Vladimir up in the air and, while
I was thinking why's he up there, he started very slowly and steadily floating
down towards the bed at which point I realized he was still in bed. The body
above merged with the body below. I was enormously tempted to think I'd really
seen Vladimir's astral body returning to his physical body, but, despite its
content, this hallucination was no different to any of the others. So,
objectively, I realized it was generated from the same source - my imagination.
The point of relating this is that the general public have been exposed to an
enormous amount of abduction data. For example, someone who has an imagination
that's inclined to escape out into the outside world like mine, could absorb a
mini series like "Intruders" and, a few months later, generate an abduction
type experience that seemed so plausible to them, becuase of what they've been
seeing and hearing, that they'd believe that this event was reality. This is
why I wonder how often there's a baby in the bathwater.
Cheers, Pony
--
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From: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Ambiguities
Date: 15 Jul 92 01:25:00 GMT
> Vladmir, I hope that we are finally moving to concensus. To
> clear up your puzzlement, I had assumed that if you adhered to
> the Rodeghier definition of abductees, then it would
> automatically mean that you agreed with propostion that anybody
> who claims to be an abductee is therefore an abductee. That is
> what the Rodgehier definition allows. If you do not feel that
> this is the case, then you and I are in agreement that the
> Rodeghier definition should be amended. I hope this clears it
> up for you.
Again, interesting footwork. You attempt to place me in a position from which
I agree with you no matter what I say. Well I don't. I find it disturbing to
see how easily you draw unfounded conclusion.
> I could not help but notice that you appear to be rather
> centered on the idea that there would be such a thing as
> leading UFO researchers. You have made the leap into the idea
> that this is a self-serving statement on my part. To the best
> of my knowledge when the definition of abductions was conceived
> it was not done in consultation with Dick Haines, John
> Carpenter, John E. Mack, Budd Hopkins, or Dave Jacobs. I
> understand that Rodeghier had a perfect right to say anything
> that he wanted to in print. I also think that he could have
> avoided quite a lot of imprecision and problems if he had
> consulted with those individuals, and others.
>
More interesting psychological footwork. Why the unrelenting assault on
Mark Rodeghier?
> I certainly agree with your sentiments about sharing data
> and publishing in refereed journals. In the United States
> there are only two refereed journals that publish pro-abduction
> material, THE JOURNAL OF UFO STUDIES and THE JOURNAL OF
> SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION. Every once in a while a psychological
> journal will publish an article showing how UFOs or abductions
> are related to some other phenomenon, but for the main the
> normal channels of scientific information sharing are closed off
> to UFO reseachers. The same is true in the book publishing
> world. You might be aware of the fact that my first book, THE
> UFO CONTROVERSY IN AMERICA, remains the only authored book on
> UFOs that takes a pro-UFO stance ever to be published by a
> refereed press--and that was in 1975! I originally gave my
> manuscript for SECRET LIFE to Temple University Press--a very
> good press. They had it for three months and never even
> bothered to look at it. So the situation for abduuction and
> UFO articles in refereed journals and presses remains fairly
> dismal. But, I am sure that you will join with me in hoping
> that the quality of our work will increase and that the arbitrary
> decisions of the refereed journals and
> presses will become more liberal so that we can meet in the
> middle and have a wider spread of scientific information.
>
> Finally, although I agree that a certain amount of
> information can be derived from conscious recollections of
> abduction material, I feel that being deprived of the very
> powerful weapon of hypnosis which is so uniquely suited for
> this type of work, places you are at a distinct disadvantage.
> Until Australian researchers learn to work around this problem,
> and there are ways to do this, or until medical professionals
> not only get interested in the situation but also learn enough
> about doing research in it to be competent at it, abduction
> research will be enormously more difficult in an area that is
> already extremely difficult.
I don't think hypnosis is a fits all tool with which to investigate abductions,
especially when it's not done by professionals. I'm not saying it's not
without application, but I would far rather it were used as a last resort when
all other options have been exhausted. From what I've seen, abductions are
often mixed with a history of paranormal phenomena, abusive childhoods and
other factors that are excluded when evaluating the abduction itself. I'm not
saying that a person with psychic ability or from an abusive background can't
also be abducted, but it seems to me that when strongly present, the abduction
experience must at least be evaluated with regards to whether such things have
coloured the interpretation or, even contributed to the experience, possibly
even generated it. From what I've seen, there's a tendency to eliminate such
background static in favour of a single clear picture - i.e. the abduction
only. It would seem to me that there's a tendency by some to define the
abduction experience in accordance with their own viewpoint. This blinkers them
to the extent that any other experiences not conforming to this viewpoint are
eliminated from the evaluation process. Unfortunately, such a working position
results in these individuals displaying intolerance to anyone who adopts a
different approach. I suspect they feel very threatened by such people as
Mark Rodeghier and others.
--
Vladimir Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Bonding
Date: 13 Jul 92 07:59:19 GMT
I am gratified that you picked up on the importance of the bonding
procedures that are administered to abductees. I feel fairly certain that
these procedures, and others, are responsible for a lot of the feelings of
benevolence and positivness that some abductees feel. I have also been
examining the role of sexual feelings elicited in these procedures and they
might also play a role. Unfortunately, I am also aware of some procedures in
which the hypnotist can lead the subject into falsely feeling quite good about
their situation thereby preventing an adequate coming-to-terms with the
phenomenon, in a therapeutic sense. I think that it all points to how
complicated the abduction phenomenon is, not only in exactly what happens,
but also in how the events are recovered.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Omega Project
Date: 15 Jul 92 07:22:19 GMT
I have not read Ring's book and it may be different than his article. All
I can say is that the study that he conducted for the article was so terribly
flawed that it demonstrated very little and proved nothing. The basis of his
article was a thinly disquised idea that NDE and UFO abductions had the same
origin. Not only is this idea somewhat nonsensical on the face of it, but the
population that he used to do his study was fatally flawed and the indices he
used for his measurements were also not very convincing, to say the least.
Please read my article for more details.
I am afraid that this is the kind of study that obscures rather than
clarifies. The main problem with Ring is that he had no real idea what the
abduction phenomenon was all about when he began his study. Not knowing what
it was comprised of allowed him to engage in rather naive ideas about it that
fit in nicely with his NDE material.
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From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Legitimacy
Date: 15 Jul 92 07:37:58 GMT
When I suggested to my old publishers, Indiana University Press, that I was
going to do another book on UFOs, they were delighted. They sent me a signed
contract. Then I began the abduction work and switched heavily into the
abduction topic. I sent the head of IUP a very conservative chapter very
early on which in fact was the MUFON paper called "The Consequences of
Nonexistence." (A very different form of the paper actually did appear in my
book six years later). The paper was about the psychological ramification of
the abduction phenomenon not having an objective reality. The head of IUP
immediately cancelled the contract because I had deigned to suggest that there
was the possibility that abductions might be real.
Temple UP acted in much the same way. The subject itself, no matter how
it is presented is heavily steeped in ridicule. Oh, I guess that a university
press might publish something that was couched in academic jargon and that was
heavily quantitative and so on. But that is not the book that I wanted to
write. As long as the subject exists on the fringe of respectability one can
expect that to be mirrored in the publishing industry.
Incidentally, I may be wrong, but I believe that only three books have
ever been published by an academic press on UFOs: Menzel's first book, FLYING
SAUCERS, published by Harvard UP, Sagan and Page's edited book of AAAS
papers, UFOs: A SCIENTIFIC DEBATE, published by Cornell UP, and my first book.
However, all is not bleak. About nine doctoral dissertations have been written
on UFO-related themes.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Screening
Date: 15 Jul 92 07:46:09 GMT
I guess it is possible to screen yourself, but it would be very, very
difficult. Most people do not know what has happened to them and choose
those things that the society allows to have happened to them, like seeing a
"ghost" and so forth. It does take a trained individual who has heard these
stories many times before and who understands what might be behind them to do
the screening. But this is all part of the abduction package. Not knowing
what has happened to one is part of the clandestine activity that has
characterized the abduction and UFO phenomenon since the beginning. The
secrecy procedures are very effective. When they do not want someone to know
what has happened to him, they are quite good at covering the memory, screening
the memory, erasing the memory, and so forth. It is not a perfect science,
however, and people do in fact remember all sorts of things. But it difficult,
very difficult. I plan to write an article on secrecy shortly and perhaps
offer some new directions in thinking about it.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose)
Subject: The MIT Conference
Date: 19 Jul 92 09:30:38 GMT
Hello Anson!
AK> I am not sure if you get the Paranet Skeptics Conference (I hope you do,
What is the exact echo area name so I can areafix it here? Thanks.
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill.Skiles@p7.f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Skiles)
Subject: Received
Date: 17 Jul 92 07:50:00 GMT
Dear David,
Received the package in the mail. Thank You. Will send it back to you
asap. BTW, I just received some literature about the IF Foundation. In it, they
said that if you write to them they will send you the location of the nearest
hypnotherapist. It stated that the staff there would help you to find one. Do
you know if this is true? Should I look into it or just continue `moving
forward' with you?
Thank you for your time. Just a dialouge with someone helps. Still having
difficulties.
Bill
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill.Skiles@p7.f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Skiles)
Subject: Screening
Date: 18 Jul 92 10:39:00 GMT
> I guess it is possible to screen yourself, but it
> would be very, very difficult.
Let me try and say it plainly.
What advice would you give to a person that is not able to contact a
hypnotherapist or can't afford one? What tips, techniques, suggestions or
advice can you give a person to help them remember or to bring up memories.
What about self-hypnosis. What about a means to quiet some of the anxiety so
that they can get some sleep? Any thoughts?
Bill
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 69
Wednesday, July 29th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Bathwater
Problems
Vacation
Common Factors in Abudctees?
Hopkins
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Bathwater
Date: 20 Jul 92 08:09:53 GMT
Pony, thanks for your message. I quite agree that there are people who have
hallucinations, who are delusional, who have vivid dreams, and so forth. My
guess is that much of the world is bathwater. But the point of abduction
research, to a degree, is to make sure that a baby has not been thrown out
with it. There is strong evidence to suggest that UFO researchers, unaware of
the abduction phenomenon, simply chalked up much of their more puzzling cases
to mental aberrations. I know that I am guilty of doing this when I was doing
sighting investigations many years ago. I strongly suspect that many others
have done the same thing.
Incidentally, we have very good evidence to show that unusual or anomalous
experiences do not happen to everybody. Budd Hopkins and I contracted with
the Roper Poll organization and conducted a systematic survey of 6,000 people
in the U.S. to determine just how many of them had had ten different types of
anomalous experience. The numbers ranged from about seven percent to about 23
percent. The point is that the vast majority of people do not have the
experiences that you have related. I must admit, I have had nothing out of
the ordinary ever happen to me, but who knows what might happen tomorrow.
Best Wishes
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Problems
Date: 21 Jul 92 08:02:37 GMT
I have the highest regard for Mark Rodeghier whom I have known for many
years. We discussed the definition at the MIT conference and he agreed that
something about investigations should be added to it. He defended his not
asking others about the definition, and we disagreed about this.
I am afraid that I am going to have to cease communication with you. Your
relentless hostility to virtually anything I say is inappropriate to this
friendly bulletin board. I am not sure what your problem is, but accusing me
of using a psychological ploy, or psychological footwork, and the like, is
childish and insulting. If you wish to learn about the abduction phenomenon
as I, and my colleague Budd Hopkins have confronted it, then communication may
go forward. However, the conversation as it has been recently constituted is
something in which I have no desire to participate.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Vacation
Date: 24 Jul 92 08:13:23 GMT
I'll be going on vacation in Cape Cod for a few weeks starting July 25.
When I return I'll try to get to the rest of the messages that I have not
responded to yet. Cheers.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Common Factors in Abudctees?
Date: 26 Jul 92 00:14:00 GMT
David,
I'm enjoying your book very much and have been discussing it
with good friends as I progress through the pages. In those talks
much appreciation has been expressed for the logical and analytical
way you've approached defining the abduction experience -- it's
rather like the definition of encounters (first, second, third kind,
etc) in its clarity and, actually, simplicty. This is an essential
step that other researchers seem to have overlooked in their zeal to
tell whichever story they're reporting on in their current books.
But a question has arisen too and I'm hoping you can provide some
insight on it as well. Given that there are standard events at each
stage of the abductee phenomena, there is obviously pattern
involved. Is there also pattern in the selection of the abductees?
That is, do they have anything in common? Has anyone collated the
data on all the abductees to see (as you've done with the abductee
phenomena itself) what things are shared in common and what things
are not? If we could say that, for instance, abductees are:
age 0-52
caucasian, black, hispanic [but not asian]
well nourished [not undernourished -- no anorexics]
not obese [the opposite defect to undernourished]
not bearded though some may wear moustaches
and so on...whatever might be accurate, perhaps we could learn
something about what kind of people are being selected and if we
could learn that, perhaps we could begin to understand why. If the
"abductees are" category is too broad, the reverse might work:
"abductees are not:" (no one with the following is known to have
been abducted--or people who have been abducted don't/aren't the
following:)
over age 52
asian, eskimo, american indian
more than 20 pounds under normal weight for their height
more than 30 pounds over normal weight for their height
totally bald
extremely hirsute
...
These are merely examples, of course, and are not intended to
suggest that any of this is factual but merely to serve as starting
points for discussion.
Could something like this be achieved? Or do you believe
the selection of "victims" is totally random and never a matter of
selection (apart from trying to find people who are not in large
crowds.) One person in our discussion mentioned she had never read
of abductees -- among those who describe seeing other human
abductees in the same area where they're taken and examined -- who
reported being in the company of fellow abductees who are
handicapped, obese, wearing a cast or similar medical protective
device, blind, etc. *If* that proved to be correct, it would
indicate there is active selection involved in choosing abduction
candidates, and if there's selection then there's a way to thwart it
(for those who'd want to.)
I will welcome any comments you may find time to make,
understanding you're very busy.
Thanks for your interest.
==Peggy
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Hopkins
Date: 27 Jul 92 03:03:04 GMT
What have you heard about the latest from Budd Hopkins?
"I will be presenting what I believe to be the most important case for
establishing the objective reality of UFO abductions that I have yet
encountered. It concerns the abduction, in November of 1989, of a woman
from her twelfth floor apartment in New York City. This event was
apparently witnessed by at least 14 independent observers, four of whom
subsequently contacted me. One of these witnesses is a major political
figure, two others are security men who were traveling with him, and the
fourth is a wom an who happenned to be driving across the Brooklyn
Bridge while the abduction was occuring. All four saw the UFO hovering
above the apartment building, a bluish-white beam of light shining down
from its underside, and watched the abductee, together with three
aliens, _floating in the light twelve stories above the street_.
[Emphasis BH] (Budd Hopkins, An Open Letter from Budd Hopkins, MUFON
UFO Journal, Number 290, June 1992, Copyright 1992 by the Mutual UFO
Network, 103 Oldtowne Rd., Seq uin, Texas 78155 , published monthly with
a membership/subscription rate of $25/yr.)
Thanks, take care.
John.
-
<Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence>
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 70
Thursday, August 13th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Ambiguities
Re: "Vision"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Ambiguities
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:10:00 GMT
Vlad:
I was rather disappionted to read Prof. Jacobs' recent
response to you, which resulted from the "Missing Abductees"
thread. I felt that your point about about his using "footwork"
(to characterize your previous statements as being in agreement
with his point -- when they weren't) was well-taken.
You have correctly pointed out that Prof. Jacobs seems to be
trying to portray himself and Budd Hopkins as *the authorities*
on abduction research. This was underscored by the arrogant,
condescending and patronizing statement that:
> If you wish to learn about the abduction phenomenon as I,
> and my colleague, Budd Hopkins have confronted it, then
> communications can go forward.
In the earlier discussion concerning people who claimed to have
had an abduction experience in spite of the fact that there may
have been witnesses present who saw no abduction take place (i.e.
the Puddy case) Prof. Jacobs made this statement on May 27:
> Keith Basterfield has said that he has two cases of this
> happening, but my discussion with him about this and my
> research into one of his cases suggests that he is in error
> on both accounts.
On June 3, I posted a message to Prof. Jacobs asking him to
explain the basis for his conclusion that the conversation and
research on one of these cases could show that Keith was in error
on *both* accounts. He never responded to this message.
Accordingly, I found his statement on June 28 to be very ironic
in this context:
> I believe that careful, systematic investigation of each
> and every case, regardless of claims and regardless even of
> consciously-recalled memories, is of the utmost importance.
Figure that!
Professor Jacobs seems to be used to discussing this topic with
people who are satisfied with unsupportable, conclusory
pronouncements, such as "FPP is a non-starter". Perhaps he is
"in over his head" trying to continue an online discussion with
people such as yourself, who expect explanations for these
conclusions.
Let's face it: Dr. Jacobs is a history professor and Budd
Hopkins is an artist. They are not mental health professionals
or even scientists. I do not mean to belittle their
contributions to our understanding of the abduction phenomenon.
They have been substantial, although we must realize that their
roles are those of anecdote collectors and organizers, who have
brought this subject (and their substantial database) to the
attention of the only people qualified to make sense of it:
mental health professionals. Prof. Jacobs frequently points out
that most mental health professionals have no background or
familiarity with abduction research. Nevertheless, he should
defer to the authority of mental health professionals when it
comes to trying to rule out a particular personality disorder or
other psycological problem in reaching a conclusion on any given
case.
There is no credibility in having a layperson render
psychological or psychiatric opinions which are included in any
given abduction case. Similarly, I don't believe that people,
who are not licensed mental health professionals, should be
performing hypnosis on other people. The Australian law is a
good one because it protects the unwitting public from having
their psychological well-being placed in the hands of an
incompetent.
Anyway, I hope that the discussions in this forum can continue in
a courteous and fruitful manner. Jerry Clark's editorial in the
May/June _IUR_ is quite timely. I was particularly impressed
with this noteworthy observation by "The Sage of Canby":
> And remember, whenever two persons agree absolutely,
> one of them is unnecessary.
-- John
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Davis)
Subject: Re: "Vision"
Date: 10 Aug 92 16:51:00 GMT
Two possibilities come readily to mind. One interesting, the second
dangerous: it is possible that you had a psychic experience of
undetermined cause; it is also possible that you may have suffered a
minor stroke - based on similar visual experiences of those I know who
have had such events.
I would not presume to ask your age, but if you are 30 or over, I
would suggest mentioning the event to your family doctor - just to rule
out the possibility of a medical event. If that pans out, why not try
a good hypnotheripist to relive the event for more detail?
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 71
Monday, August 17th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Re: "Vision"
Selection factors
Return and Clarifications
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: "Vision"
Date: 16 Aug 92 18:12:00 GMT
Hi Tom,
Thanks for your reply about my vision of the stars and universe. That
happened about 2 1/2 years ago, and I had no physical symptons of any
kind at the time.
I just had an EKG, check-up, etc. and am in pretty good shape for being
40-something. :-)
Thanks for writing!
Best,
Linda
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Selection factors
Date: 12 Aug 92 07:32:18 GMT
Thanks for your note Peggy. We are not sure of the selection factor for
abductees. My best guess is that it was originally random probably at the
beginning of the century or thereabouts. Through natural population increase,
marriages, divorces, remarriages and so forth, the population of abductees
expanded in a cone-like effect. So that while it might have started
relatively small, it is now relatively extensive.
Our population is not large enough to include everybody in it. For example
I know of no Eskimos who are abductees. That is not to say that there are
none, but we have not yet seen any. My own population includes black, white,
Jewish, Christian, male, female, young, old, Hispanic, and so forth. But
there are so many different human groupings that we just do not know if any
groups have been left out. I have heard from people who are Asian, Egyptian,
Iranian, and from other countries as well, but I have not worked with them so
I guess they must remain in the "potential" abductee category.
I have also thought about the problem of gross physical disabilities as
being underrepresented in the abductee population. However, I have recently
heard of an abductee who is a paraplegic, one who has scleraderma, and several
others with serious medical problems. So I think that the more we learn about
the abductee population the more it might include all groups suggesting once
again that it might indeed be random.
Ultimately, the only way to determine if the group is random is to do
extensive medical analyses of bones, blood, genes, and everything else. This
has not been done so far but it is something that I believe must be done in
the future. Right now there is nothing overt--weight, size, facial hair, and
so forth--that would set abductees off from the rest of the population. The
only significant factor that we can find that determines if a person is an
abductee is whether one or both of his or her parents were abductees as well.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Return and Clarifications
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:17:34 GMT
I'm back in town for a few days and on August 19 I will be going to England
for about ten days. I will give a few lectures there thanks to the help of
Stuart Smith and Steve Gamble. One will be in Manchester and one will be in
London. I am looking forward to describing my research and probably fanning
the fires of controversy.
I would like to take a few minutes to discuss the curent controversy that
has arisen with a few of the Paranet members. When I was asked to be moderator
of the abduction bulletin board, I was asked to respond to questions about the
current state of abduction research in general and my own findings in
particular. There was no doubt in my mind that I was going to be controversial.
After all this is an extremely controversial subject and because methodology
has not yet been standardized, other researchers may well have difficulties
with my results because they have not found the same things. I expected a
lively give and take and in the main this has been the case. I think that my
exchanges with Keith Basterfield are good examples of that give and take. (I
will have more to say about the Puddy case in an upcoming IUR--if I can get
the time to write it up). A few people, however, have decided that exchanges
over the material are not adequate for debate and have resorted to critically
picking apart my messages. This is often not too difficult because I
usually log on to the BBS late at night when I am too tired to continue my
work. I write my messages off the top of my head and send them. There are
bound to be contradictions and ambiguities. I am fair game for those who
delight in pointing these out. I am not, however, fair game for personal
attacks and I will not abide by them--I have had enough of those from the
lunatic fringe debunkers to last a life time, thank you very much. I hope
that this will be my last word on the subject and that we can get back to
discussing in a reasonable and rational way the mysteries of the enormously
important abduction phenomenon.
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 72
Friday, August 21st 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Selection Factors
Mail Problems
EARLY ABDUCTION
Return and Clarifications
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Selection Factors
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:27:03 GMT
Hello David,
What an interesting and thoughtful reply that was! Thank
you so much!
I have wondered about the handicapped abductee problem and,
since the last time I posted to you here, it occurred to me that
perhaps the reason they're underreported might have something to do
with the "nobody will believe me" factor. In such a vulnerable
position to begin with (as, say, a person confined to a motorized
wheelchair might be, for one example) I can appreciate how that
person might feel very chary of mentioning anything that could
possibly compromise his or her independence. That is, "they" let
you live your own life independently *provided* you demonstrate that
you don't need supervision. If such a person were to report any
form of UFO event, it might call his or her mental stability into
question and that would entail a much greater risk than the non-
handicapped person would face in reporting UFO events.
So, perhaps these events are less often reported because the
disbelief scale is more dangerous for these people. It is
interesting, however, that you say that now some cases are coming
in. It has been my understanding from reading books such as your
own that eventually the burden of a UFO experience, even if not
consciously remembered, becomes so great that the person to whom
this experience has happened feels compelled beyond all self-will to
act on it, either to "erase" it by what some call "confession" or to
understand it, to try to discover what is at the root of certain
"aberrations" or similar roads leading to the same destination.
Of course, if "They" were sampling all the population,
they'd surely include in their random harvest all types they could
obtain. Perhaps it might be a higher degree of difficulty to
harvest disabled people, either because they may be attended by
others or because they tend not to arrive in the remote or
semi-remote locations which UFOs seem to prefer for harvest sites.
Perhaps you noticed some months ago that I had posted a
short newspaper item called "Alien Chocolate." This was an item
from a local weekly about a UFO group in the Pacific Northwest led
by John Strongbow in which J.S. said that aliens were harvesting
humans to obtain something called "adrenal-chrom" but that they
avoided people who smoked, ate garlic or chocolate, or consumed
alcohol because those things somehow tainted the "adrenal-chrom." I
have not spoken to Strongbow (yet) so I don't know what evidence he
might have, but I wonder if there is such a preference selection in
force. I cannot recall any of the abductees mentioning that they
smoked, for instance, but it's quite a stretch to think *none* had
consumed either chocolate or garlic, or had imbibed alcohol in a
reasonable time prior to the event. Still, it makes one wonder.
Is there a computerized registry which stores and compares
data from UFO contact reports? If so, that would make it much
easier to cross-check and rule out factors such as physical defects
or even mental ones.
Yours was a most interesting reply and will give much food
for thought. Thank you very much.
==Peggy
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ncar!csn!jrblack@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM
Subject: Mail Problems
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:34:26 GMT
From: Roger Black <csn!jrblack@ncar.UCAR.EDU>
Every time we mail out one of the ParaNet digests, a number of copies
are returned to us as undeliverable. The reasons for this are as
varied as modern computer technology can make them, including:
- the recipient's account no longer exists
- the recipient's disk quota is exhausted
- the recipient's mail is being forwarded to a nonexistent address
- the host machine's spool disk is full
- the host machine's name server has lost its memory
- the host machine is temporarily unavailable
- the host machine is permanently shut down
- an intervening network or router is down
- an intervening mail gateway has gone insane
- somebody's security program has run amok
and so on, ad infinitum. Such problems sometimes persist literally for
months on end, apparently without the subscriber being aware of what is
going on. When that happens, they may be missing not only the digest
but potentially lots of other important things as well.
When mail bounces back to us, we make every effort to contact the
intended recipient, either directly or through the site's postmaster.
But it has often happened that, despite our best efforts, we simply
cannot find any way to contact the person we are trying to reach. When
that happens, we have no choice but to remove them from the mailing
list.
Usually, after a couple of weeks we receive an anxious note from the
subscriber asking what happened to the digest. Most of the time this
means that whatever problem existed has now been corrected, and we
immediately restore them to the list. However, we have seen situations
where a subscriber could send mail but not receive it. As a result, we
kept getting increasingly impatient and frustrated notes from someone
we couldn't respond to--which frustrated us as well.
So if the digest ever stops arriving for what seems like an unusually
long time, try sending us a note. If we don't respond in a couple of
days, ask yourself how long it has been since you received ANY mail
from outside your local site. If necessary, ask someone else on the
net to send you some test mail, or contact your local postmaster to see
if there is some kind of problem. You may be doing yourself a favor,
as well as us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Pony Godic)
Subject: EARLY ABDUCTION
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:15:00 GMT
In FORTEAN TIMES Issues 1-15 (1973-1976), a volume that I would highly
recommend to anyone with a serious interest in the paranormal, I found the following, whilst browsing:
>From a letter to the Manchester Evening News, 20 Nov 68.
(Credit: Peter Rogerson).
"When my family were young we spent many happy years camping in (the upper
reaches of the River Wharfe in Yorkshire). Mr Reay (an article on that area
appeared by him in the M.E.N., the previous Saturday) says that there is a
wonderful air of mystery about it all, an air of `farawayness and remoteness,'
and I too would describe the place as spooky. I will never forget on one
occasion when we had climbed up over the moors. The children played around,
while my wife and I rested among the heather, basking in the sunshine. Whether
I dozed off or not, I do not know, but suddenly I became aware that my wife was
not with us. I called the children and asked them where she had gone, but they
could not tell me anything - I got the queerest impression that she had been
spirited away by the `fairies' - there was nowhere on the moors that she could
have hidden, and I began to get panicky. This district has that effect on one -
the isolation and peace of the place give one the impression that unearthy
(sic) things could happen. It is the weirdest place I know.
"We began to get really worried, and even Paddy, our dog, who always
accompanied us on our outings, started to whimper and appeared very distressed.
Suddenly, apparently from nowhere, my wife was with us again, and there was a
faraway smile on her face. We questioned her as to where she had been, but she
could offer no explanation, and had no recollection of having been away from us
at all. There is no doubt in my mind that something very odd had happened -
something associated with the `farawayness and remoteness' of the place."
Since this letter appeared in 1968 and its writer referred to an earlier time
when his children were young, this incident would appear to predate the modern
abduction era by some years. I know it's a very long shot, but does anyone
know any more about the above?
Anyone interested in purchasing the FORTEAN TIMES Issues 1-15 (1973-1976)
volume or in subscribing to the magazine itself, can write to:
Fortean Times
20 Paul St
Frome
Somerset BA11 1DX
U.K.
--
Pony Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Return and Clarifications
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:02:00 GMT
+ I would like to take a few minutes to discuss the curent
+ controversy that has arisen with a few of the Paranet members.
+ When I was asked to be moderator of the abduction bulletin
+ board, I was asked to respond
+ to questions about the current state of abduction research in
+ general and
+ my own findings in particular. There was no doubt in my mind
+ that I was going to be controversial. After all this is an
+ extremely controversial
+ subject and because methodology has not yet been standardized,
+ other researchers may well have difficulties with my results
+ because they have not found the same things. I expected a
+ lively give and take and in the main this has been the case. I
+ think that my exchanges with Keith Basterfield are good
+ examples of that give and take. (I will have more to say about
+ the Puddy case in an upcoming IUR--if I can get the time to
+ write it up). A few people, however, have decided that
+ exchanges over the material are not adequate for debate and
+ have resorted to critically picking apart my messages. This is
+ often not too difficult because I
+ usually log on to the BBS late at night when I am too tired to
+ continue my work. I write my messages off the top of my head
+ and send them. There are bound to be contradictions and
+ ambiguities. I am fair game for those who delight in pointing
+ these out. I am not, however, fair game for personal attacks
+ and I will not abide by them--I have had enough of those from
+ the lunatic fringe debunkers to last a life time, thank you very
+ much. I hope that this will be my last word on the subject and
+ that we can get back to discussing in a reasonable and rational way the
+ mysteries of the enormously important abduction phenomenon.
AMEN!!!!
--
Vladimir Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG
*******************************************************************************
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 73
Monday, September 7th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Re: RETURN AND CLARIFICATIONS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: RETURN AND CLARIFICATIONS
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:37:01 GMT
After reading your message about detractors etc. I have to admit I don't
lnow much about your specialty, nor do I really have a strong feeling for
it's validity. That's why I appreciate your replys to others and the input
effort you contribute to this echo. Keep up the good work and keep presenting
your studies and information. Just because I don't know enough to agree or
disagree, doesn't mean I can't appreciate your reasonable scientific approach
to a controversial subject. And as the "Old Professor" used to say... "Never
give up, never give up, never give up!" 8*)
--
Pete Porro - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG
*******************************************************************************
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 74
Monday, September 21st 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Environment
Selection Factors
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Rhodes@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Rhodes)
Subject: Environment
Date: 14 Sep 92 07:09:00 GMT
I found this interesting article that seems to confirm some
alien statements reported by abducties.
Article in ROCKY MOUNTAIN NEWS 11 Sept. 1992 pg.3
SPERM COUNTS DECLINING, GLOBAL STUDY INDICATES
Environment to blames,
fertility experts suggest.
Associated Press
LONDON-Average sperm count in healthy men has dropped by half
in the past 50 years, according to a global review of 61 studies
covering 14,947 men.
Experts say the study, directed by Dr. Niels Skakkebaek, of
the University of Copenhagen, lends credence to speculation that
environmental pollutants may damage production of sperm cells.
"I think there is cause for concern," said Dr. Richard Sharpe,
a respected reproductive biologist at the University of Edinburgh.
"If there is something in our environment having an effect that is
drastic enough to decrease sperm count by 50%, we should know what
this factor is."
Conflicting results have emerged from previous studies.
Skakkebaek, whose findings are published in the Sept 13 issue of
the British Medical Journal, said his review was the first to
collect worldwide statistics and limit the analysis to healthy men.
"It would have to be something in the environment or
lifestyle." said Skakkebaek. a professor of growth and
reproduction. "Changes that occur within a generation could hardly
be due to a change in genetic background."
He said a woman's exposure to environmental toxins during
pregnancy may thwart development of a male fetus' sperm cells.
Skakkebaek said investigators had reviewed all international
scientific studies on semen analysis of healthy men from 1938 to
1990. They found average sperm count declined from 133 million
sperm per milliliter in the 1940's to 60 million per milliliter in
the 1990's.
Men who have fewer than 20 million sperm per milliliter are
considered infertile.
Dr. Mark Cullen, director of occupational and environmental
medicine at Yale University, noted that a few studies suggest that
stress may slow sperm production.
--
John Rhodes - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Rhodes@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Vince.Johnson@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Vince Johnson)
Subject: Selection Factors
Date: 16 Sep 92 23:13:00 GMT
If I'm not mistaken, Adrenachrome was an invention by Dr. Hunter S.
Thompson to describe the ultimate drug experience. I assumed he was
joking...
Regards,
Vince
--
Vince Johnson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Vince.Johnson@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
*******************************************************************************
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 75
Monday, October 19th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Hopkins
Survey, 1/7
Survey, 2/7
Survey, 3/7
Survey, 4/7
Survey, 5/7
Survey, 6/7
Survey, 7/7
Survey, 7/7
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Hopkins
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:39:00 GMT
-=> Quoting David Jacobs to John Powell <=-
DJ> John, Budd has already begun to discuss some of his
DJ> findings. He is publishing some material in MUFON journal
DJ> and I hope that he will be able to write a book about the
DJ> case eventually. He is still investigating the case as it
DJ> is ongoing and new developments are still coming forward.
DJ> I think that all shall be revealed in due course, but I
DJ> cannot at this time give you a definite date.
Okay, I can live with that. Just for the typing exercise I hope that he
defends the case in a timely manner regarding Klass-like attacks. The
first round was rather brutal and it won't get any easier as things
progress.
Thanks, take care.
John.
-
<Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence>
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
--
John Powell - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Survey, 1/7
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:50:10 GMT
_Unusual Personal Experiences: Analysis of the Data from Three National
Surveys Conducted by the Roper Organization_, (1992, Bigelow Holding
Corporation, 4640 South Eastern, Las Vegas, NV 89119) [The Roper
Organization, 205 East 42nd St., New York, NY 10017]
"We did not fund this project for profit from sale of materials,
nor for any monetary gain, media involvement or publicity..."
- Robert Bigelow
How Often Has Occurrence Happenned To You? [1]
___---------------------------------------
Summary List I
--------------
______________ [2]
/ Survey Date \
/ ------------- \
Total Jul Aug Sep
----- ----- ----- -----
(5,947) (1,992) (1,983) (1,973)
% % % %
4) Waking up paralyzed with a sense of
a strange person or presence or
something else in the room?
Has happenned 18 20 17 17
More than once (a) 5 6 4 5
Once or twice (b) 13 14 13 12
Has not happenned (c) 81 79 82 83
Don't know (d) 1 1 1 *
10 Having seen, either as a child or as
an adult, a terrifying figure - which
might have been a monster, a witch,
a devil, or some other evil figure
in your bedroom, closet, or
somewhere else.
Has happenned 15 17 14 13
More than once 4 5 3 3
Once or twice 11 12 11 10
Has not happenned 84 83 85 86
Don't know 1 1 2 1
2) Feeling as if you left your body.
Has happenned 14 17 12 12
More than once 4 5 3 3
Once or twice 10 12 9 9
Has not happenned 85 82 86 87
Don't know 1 1 1 1
7) Experiencing a period of time of an
hour or more, in which you were
apparently lost, but you could not
remember why, or where you had been.
Has happenned 13 15 11 12
More than once 4 4 2 3
Once or twice 10 11 9 9
Has not happenned 85 84 88 88
Don't know 1 1 1 1
1) Seeing a ghost.
Has happenned 11 13 10 10
More than once 3 4 2 3
Once or twice 8 9 8 7
Has not happenned 88 86 88 89
Don't know 1 1 1 1
5) Feeling that you were actually flying
through the air although you didn't
know why or how.
Has happenned 10 12 9 11
More than once 3 4 2 4
Once or twice 7 8 7 7
Has not happenned 88 87 89 89
Don't know 1 1 1 *
8) Seen unusual lights or balls of light
in a room without knowing what was
causing them, or where they came from.
Has happenned 8 10 6 8
More than once 2 2 1 2
Once or twice 6 8 5 6
Has not happenned 91 90 92 92
Don't know 1 1 1 *
9) Finding puzzling scars on your body
and neither you nor anyone else
remembering how you received them
or where you got them.
Has happenned 8 9 7 8
More than once 2 2 2 3
Once or twice 6 7 5 5
Has not happenned 91 90 92 92
Don't know 1 1 1 *
3) Seeing a UFO.
Has happenned 7 9 7 6
More than once 1 2 1 1
Once or twice 6 7 6 5
Has not happenned 92 90 92 91
Don't know 1 1 1 1
11) Having vivid dreams about UFOs.
Has happenned 5 6 4 5
More than once 1 2 1 1
Once or twice 4 4 3 4
Has not happenned 94 93 95 95
Don't know 1 1 1 1
6) Hearing or seeing the word TRONDANT
and knowing that it has a secret
meaning for you. [3]
Has happenned 1 2 1 1
More than once * * * *
Once or twice 1 1 1 1
Has not happenned 97 96 97 998
Don't know 2 3 2 1
* - indicates less than 0.5%
--------------------------
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
--
John Powell - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Survey, 2/7
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:50:12 GMT
Summary List II
---------------
How Often Has Occurrence Happenned To You?
___---------------------------------------
PSA(s)/ - [4]
Influential
Total Americans
----- -----------
(5,947) (565)
% %
4) Waking up paralyzed with a sense of
a strange person or presence or
something else in the room?
Has happenned 18 28
More than once 5 9
Once or twice 13 19
Has not happenned 81 72
Don't know 1 *
10) Having seen, either as a child or as
an adult, a terrifying figure - which
might have been a monster, a witch,
a devil, or some other evil figure
in your bedroom, closet, or
somewhere else.
Has happenned 15 19
More than once 4 4
Once or twice 11 15
Has not happenned 84 81
Don't know 1 1
2) Feeling as if you left your body.
Has happenned 14 23
More than once 4 7
Once or twice 10 16
Has not happenned 85 76
Don't know 1 *
7) Experiencing a period of time of an
hour or more, in which you were
apparently lost, but you could not
remember why, or where you had been.
Has happenned 13 17
More than once 4 4
Once or twice 10 13
Has not happenned 85 82
Don't know 1 *
1) Seeing a ghost.
Has happenned 11 16
More than once 3 5
Once or twice 8 11
Has not happenned 88 84
Don't know 1 1
5) Feeling that you were actually flying
through the air although you didn't
know why or how.
Has happenned 10 18
More than once 3 8
Once or twice 7 10
Has not happenned 88 81
Don't know 1 1
8) Seen unusual lights or balls of light
in a room without knowing what was
causing them, or where they came from.
Has happenned 8 11
More than once 2 8
Once or twice 6 3
Has not happenned 91 89
Don't know 1 *
9) Finding puzzling scars on your body
and neither you nor anyone else
remembering how you received them
or where you got them.
Has happenned 8 9
More than once 2 3
Once or twice 6 6
Has not happenned 91 91
Don't know 1 *
3) Seeing a UFO.
Has happenned 7 10
More than once 1 1
Once or twice 6 9
Has not happenned 92 89
Don't know 1 1
11) Having vivid dreams about UFOs.
Has happenned 5 6
More than once 1 1
Once or twice 4 5
Has not happenned 94 93
Don't know 1 1
6) Hearing or seeing the word TRONDANT
and knowing that it has a secret
meaning for you.
Has happenned 1 2
More than once * 1
Once or twice 1 1
Has not happenned 97 97
Don't know 2 2
* - indicates less than 0.5%
--------------------------
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
--
John Powell - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Survey, 3/7
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:50:14 GMT
Demographic Data - Card 1, Part 1 [5]
---------------------------------
Household Income Education
Sex Age ------------------- -------------------
--------- ------------------- 15M 30M Non-
Fe- 18- 30- 45- Und Und Und HS HS Some Coll
Totl Male male 29 44 59 60+ 15M 30M 50M 50M+ Grad Grad Coll Grad
==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ====
T# 5947 2825 3122 1539 1916 1172 1321 1034 1455 1388 836 1186 2194 1389 1164
%# 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
Q#
___
1a 188 72 116 48 69 44 27 39 50 47 17 52 66 37 34
3% 3% 4% 3% 4% 4% 2% 4% 3% 3% 2% 4% 3% 3% 3%
1b 488 229 259 164 163 95 67 105 123 137 56 121 161 128 77
8% 8% 8% 11% 8% 8% 5% 10% 8% 10% 7% 10% 7% 9% 7%
1c 5225 2506 2720 1313 1673 1023 1216 880 1270 1199 760 1004 1945 1218 1049
88% 89% 87% 85% 87% 87% 92% 85% 87% 86% 91% 85% 89% 88% 90%
1d 45 18 28 14 11 10 10 10 13 5 3 9 23 7 5
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * * 1% 1% * *
2a 210 98 112 48 87 51 24 37 44 64 33 32 55 60 63
4% 3% 4% 3% 5% 4% 2% 4% 3% 5% 4% 3% 3% 4% 5%
2b 610 299 311 156 237 125 93 106 143 148 109 102 203 172 133
10% 11% 10% 10% 12% 11% 7% 10% 10% 11% 13% 9% 9% 12% 11%
2c 5066 2404 2662 1320 1576 983 1187 879 1252 1165 688 1040 1909 1148 957
85% 85% 85% 86% 82% 84% 90% 85% 86% 84% 82% 88% 87% 83% 82%
2d 60 23 37 15 15 14 16 12 17 10 7 12 27 9 11
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
3a 65 41 24 17 31 11 6 14 13 23 7 14 24 19 8
1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% * 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
3b 366 201 165 98 147 74 47 57 93 105 54 54 142 99 71
6% 7% 5% 6% 8% 6% 4% 5% 6% 8% 6% 5% 6% 7% 6%
3c 5447 2546 2901 1406 1716 1069 1256 949 1328 1246 770 1105 1996 1257 1079
92% 90% 93% 91% 90% 91% 95% 92% 91% 90% 92% 93% 91% 90% 93%
3d 69 37 32 18 22 17 12 14 21 13 5 13 33 15 6
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1%
4a 301 119 183 89 129 57 28 65 71 81 47 49 105 75 72
5% 4% 6% 6% 7% 5% 2% 6% 5% 6% 6% 4% 5% 5% 6%
4b 773 342 431 253 273 137 109 162 197 198 102 156 278 193 143
13% 12% 14% 16% 14% 12% 8% 16% 14% 14% 12% 13% 13% 14% 12%
4c 4833 2344 2489 1186 1505 968 1174 800 1178 1097 684 976 1788 1116 944
81% 83% 80% 77% 79% 83% 89% 77% 81% 79% 82% 82% 81% 80% 81%
4d 40 20 20 11 9 10 9 7 10 12 3 5 23 5 5
1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * * 1% * *
5a 201 116 85 34 89 40 38 32 31 57 41 37 62 49 64
3% 4% 3% 2% 5% 3% 3% 3% 2% 4% 5% 2% 3% 4% 5%
5b 442 235 207 135 158 82 66 79 103 125 67 69 163 119 91
7% 8% 7% 9% 8% 7% 5% 8% 7% 9% 8% 6% 7% 9% 8%
5c 5256 2453 2803 1354 1658 1037 1207 913 1307 1196 725 1080 1946 1214 1004
88% 87% 90% 88% 87% 88% 91% 88% 90% 86% 87% 91% 89% 87% 86%
5d 49 21 27 16 11 12 9 10 15 10 2 10 24 8 6
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1%
6a 18 9 9 2 9 4 3 3 6 9 1 2 4 9 3
* * * * * * * * * 1% * * * 1% *
6b 53 33 20 15 22 9 7 14 10 17 4 13 23 13 5
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% *
6c 5754 2730 3024 1485 1854 1139 1276 979 1410 1342 819 1142 2111 1349 1141
97% 97% 97% 96% 97% 97% 97% 95% 97% 97% 98% 96% 96% 97% 98%
6d 122 53 69 37 32 20 34 38 30 20 12 29 56 19 16
2% 2% 2% 2% 2% 2% 3% 4% 2% 1% 1% 2% 3% 1% 1%
7a 171 93 78 49 65 29 28 45 36 44 22 42 59 38 32
3% 3% 3% 3% 3% 3% 2% 4% 2% 3% 3% 4% 3% 3% 3%
7b 578 305 273 173 186 112 107 114 145 127 79 134 222 130 92
10% 11% 9% 11% 10% 10% 8% 11% 10% 9% 9% 11% 10% 9% 8%
7c 5152 2408 2744 1304 1654 1020 1174 866 1256 1208 733 1002 1888 1214 1036
87% 85% 88% 85% 86% 87% 89% 84% 86% 87% 88% 84% 86% 87% 89%
7d 46 19 27 13 11 10 11 10 18 7 2 8 25 7 4
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% *
8a 102 54 48 40 38 15 9 23 30 24 12 16 48 27 11
2% 2% 2% 3% 2% 1% 1% 2% 2% 2% 1% 1% 2% 2% 1%
8b 374 162 212 128 126 70 50 62 98 95 48 94 128 92 60
6% 6% 7% 8% 7% 6% 4% 6% 7% 7% 6% 8% 6% 7% 5%
8c 5439 2594 2844 1363 1744 1078 1255 942 1317 1260 774 1072 2001 1265 1089
91% 92% 91% 89% 91% 92% 95% 91% 90% 91% 93% 90% 91% 91% 94%
8d 32 14 18 9 8 9 7 8 10 9 1 4 18 5 4
1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% * 1% 1% 1% * * 1% * *
9a 146 70 75 62 43 21 20 32 35 37 17 32 51 42 20
2% 2% 2% 4% 2% 2% 1% 3% 2% 3% 2% 3% 2% 3% 2%
9b 327 165 162 147 103 46 32 67 85 86 40 74 125 80 49
6% 6% 5% 10% 5% 4% 2% 6% 6% 6% 5% 6% 6% 6% 4%
9c 5430 2573 2858 1318 1760 1092 1260 927 1319 1257 776 1070 1997 1261 1092
91% 91% 92% 86% 92% 93% 95% 90% 91% 91% 93% 90% 91% 91% 94%
9d 44 16 27 13 9 12 9 8 16 8 3 10 22 7 4
1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% * *
10a 220 92 127 83 78 35 23 47 54 56 27 42 79 52 44
4% 3% 4% 5% 4% 3% 2% 5% 4% 4% 3% 4% 4% 4% 4%
10b 650 313 337 218 257 111 64 123 149 176 93 123 226 168 131
11% 11% 11% 14% 13% 9% 5% 12% 10% 13% 11% 10% 10% 12% 11%
10c5015 2386 2629 1221 1560 1012 1221 857 1235 1140 711 1015 1858 1158 977
84% 84% 84% 79% 81% 86% 92% 83% 85% 82% 85% 86% 85% 83% 84%
10d 62 33 29 16 20 13 13 6 17 16 5 6 31 11 12
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1%
11a 71 36 36 26 28 8 10 4 20 24 12 7 26 20 17
1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
11b 220 140 80 78 88 36 17 33 48 68 28 30 80 70 40
4% 5% 3% 5% 5% 3% 1% 3% 3% 5% 3% 2% 4% 5% 3%
11c5604 2626 2978 1424 1784 1118 1278 981 1378 1284 791 1136 2068 1290 1099
94% 93% 95% 93% 93% 95% 97% 95% 95% 93% 95% 96% 94% 93% 94%
11d 52 23 29 12 16 10 14 16 10 12 6 12 21 10 8
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
* - indicates less than 0.5%
--------------------------
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
--
John Powell - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Survey, 4/7
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:51:16 GMT
Demographic Data - Card 1, Part 2
---------------------------------
Marital Status Parents
------------------- of kids
Married Unmarried Aged 0-17
--------- --------- ---------
Both 0,1 Age Age Both 0,1
Work Work 44- 45+ Work Work
==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ====
T# 1708 1803 1528 900 1014 1247
%# 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
Q#
___
1a 54 52 54 28 35 47
3% 3% 4% 3% 3% 4%
1b 136 133 155 65 84 119
8% 7% 10% 7% 8% 10%
1c 1507 1605 1306 799 887 1072
88% 89% 85% 89% 88% 86%
1d 11 13 13 8 8 9
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
2a 66 37 74 33 40 39
4% 2% 5% 4% 4% 3%
2b 172 157 198 82 106 152
10% 9% 13% 9% 10% 12%
2c 1455 1594 1239 773 860 1045
85% 88% 81% 86% 85% 84%
2d 15 16 17 12 8 12
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
3a 19 15 24 7 12 15
1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1%
3b 126 90 110 40 83 85
7% 5% 7% 4% 8% 7%
3c 1539 1679 1377 843 908 1132
90% 93% 90% 94% 90% 91%
3d 24 19 16 10 11 16
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
4a 95 61 112 35 63 84
6% 3% 7% 4% 6% 7%
4b 224 217 230 102 139 192
13% 12% 15% 11% 14% 15%
4c 1381 1512 1177 754 807 959
81% 84% 77% 84% 80% 77%
4d 8 13 9 9 5 12
* 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
5a 72 54 48 27 45 44
4% 3% 3% 3% 4% 3%
5b 130 110 150 51 64 106
8% 6% 10% 6% 6% 9%
5c 1493 1624 1318 813 897 1084
87% 90% 86% 90% 89% 87%
5d 12 16 12 9 7 13
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
6a 4 7 5 2 4 2
* * * * * *
6b 18 10 20 6 10 12
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
6c 1652 1752 1468 874 984 1214
97% 97% 96% 97% 97% 97%
6d 34 35 35 18 16 19
2% 2% 2% 2% 2% 2%
7a 36 42 64 30 29 42
2% 2% 4% 3% 3% 3%
7b 173 141 181 83 106 114
10% 8% 12% 9% 10% 9%
7c 1491 1602 1273 778 875 1078
87% 89% 83% 86% 86% 86%
7d 8 18 10 9 4 13
* 1% 1% 1% * 1%
8a 24 24 43 10 19 23
1% 1% 3% 1% 2% 2%
8b 95 90 140 49 61 91
6% 5% 9% 5% 6% 7%
8c 1581 1677 1337 836 930 1124
93% 93% 87% 93% 92% 90%
8d 7 12 8 5 4 9
* 1% 1% 1% * 1%
9a 36 37 58 15 25 37
2% 2% 4% 2% 2% 3%
9b 86 73 145 23 50 84
5% 4% 9% 3% 5% 7%
9c 1573 1681 1315 853 932 1118
92% 93% 86% 95% 92% 90%
9d 12 12 10 10 7 8
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
10a 56 50 90 23 33 59
3% 3% 6% 3% 3% 5%
10b 202 153 216 79 138 154
12% 8% 14% 9% 14% 12%
10c1432 1585 1206 784 831 1021
84% 88% 79% 87% 82% 82%
10d 18 15 16 13 12 14
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
11a 28 12 26 5 16 4
2% 1% 2% 1% 2% *
11b 78 49 77 16 52 39
5% 3% 5% 2% 5% 3%
11c1592 1727 1407 870 940 1193
93% 96% 92% 97% 93% 96%
11d 10 15 17 9 6 11
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
* - indicates less than 0.5%
--------------------------
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
--
John Powell - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Survey, 5/7
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:51:18 GMT
Demographic Data - Card 2, Part 1
---------------------------------
Political Political
Race Geographic Area Market Size Affil Ideology
---- ------------------ ------------------ --------- ---------
Totl Blck NE MW SO WST A B C D DEM REP CONS LIBL
==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ====
T# 5947 675 1273 1498 1987 1189 2477 1827 888 756 2207 1696 2561 1101
%# 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
Q#
___
1a 188 29 19 40 73 56 83 61 32 12 77 43 67 45
3% 4% 1% 3% 4% 5% 3% 3% 4% 2% 3% 3% 3% 4%
1b 488 61 75 110 205 99 170 171 74 72 170 132 211 107
8% 9% 6% 7% 10% 8% 7% 9% 8% 10% 8% 8% 8% 10%
1c 5225 580 1169 1341 1693 1022 2206 1580 770 669 1947 1513 2267 939
88% 86% 92% 90% 85% 86% 89% 86% 87% 89% 88% 89% 88% 85%
1d 45 6 10 7 17 12 18 15 11 2 12 8 17 11
1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% * 1% 1%
2a 210 30 32 35 74 69 88 64 36 22 81 45 81 62
4% 4% 3% 2% 4% 6% 4% 4% 4% 3% 4% 3% 3% 6%
2b 610 60 113 167 179 151 263 173 96 78 235 168 252 146
10% 9% 9% 11% 9% 13% 11% 9% 11% 10% 11% 10% 10% 13%
2c 5066 573 1124 1278 1714 950 2106 1564 745 651 1871 1472 2203 886
85% 85% 88% 85% 86% 80% 85% 86% 84% 86% 85% 87% 86% 81%
2d 60 11 4 18 19 19 20 26 10 5 20 10 25 7
1% 2% * 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
3a 65 4 14 18 21 12 24 21 8 13 25 13 27 17
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 2%
3b 366 20 69 105 117 76 128 95 83 60 129 119 160 73
6% 3% 5% 7% 6% 6% 5% 5% 9% 8% 6% 7% 6% 7%
3c 5447 642 1182 1356 1821 1087 2294 1691 787 674 2025 1552 2352 1002
92% 95% 93% 91% 92% 91% 93% 93% 89% 89% 92% 91% 92% 91%
3d 69 9 8 20 27 14 31 19 10 9 27 12 23 10
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
4a 302 37 33 62 113 94 119 109 40 35 117 80 114 88
5% 5% 3% 4% 6% 8% 5% 6% 4% 5% 5% 5% 4% 8%
4b 773 72 107 185 299 182 247 231 159 136 281 232 343 161
13% 11% 8% 12% 15% 15% 10% 13% 18% 18% 13% 14% 13% 15%
4c 4833 560 1126 1239 1566 901 2093 1477 682 581 1801 1378 2090 845
81% 83% 88% 83% 79% 76% 84% 81% 77% 77% 82% 81% 82% 77%
4d 40 6 7 12 9 11 19 9 7 4 8 7 13 7
1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * * 1% 1%
5a 201 12 23 50 59 69 78 63 38 23 76 56 90 44
3% 2% 2% 3% 3% 6% 3% 3% 4% 3% 3% 3% 4% 4%
5b 442 39 70 135 124 113 191 130 80 40 152 114 176 96
7% 6% 6% 9% 6% 9% 8% 7% 9% 5% 7% 7% 7% 9%
5c 5256 618 1172 1303 1789 992 2191 1617 760 687 1966 1520 2277 957
88% 92% 92% 87% 90% 83% 88% 89% 86% 91% 89% 90% 89% 87%
5d 49 6 8 11 15 15 17 17 10 5 12 6 17 5
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% *
6a 18 1 1 2 9 6 12 3 2 1 6 7 6 5
* * * * * 1% * * * * * * * *
6b 53 10 5 14 28 6 34 5 9 5 16 20 25 11
1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
6c 5754 657 1258 1433 1912 1151 2396 1779 842 738 2149 1634 2483 1059
97% 97% 99% 96% 96% 97% 97% 97% 95% 98% 97% 96% 97% 96%
6d 122 8 9 49 38 26 35 40 34 12 36 34 48 26
2% 1% 1% 3% 2% 2% 1% 2% 4% 2% 2% 2% 2% 2%
7a 171 27 27 46 59 39 67 55 31 19 57 37 63 49
3% 4% 2% 3% 3% 3% 3% 3% 3% 2% 3% 2% 2% 4%
7b 578 56 94 154 191 139 208 178 120 73 217 171 248 141
10% 8% 7% 10% 10% 12% 8% 10% 13% 10% 10% 10% 10% 13%
7c 5152 589 1144 1289 1718 1002 2187 1585 723 658 1923 1475 2226 906
87% 87% 90% 86% 86% 84% 88% 87% 81% 87% 87% 87% 87% 82%
7d 46 3 8 8 20 9 15 9 14 7 9 14 24 5
1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 2% 1% * 1% 1% *
8a 102 23 12 27 39 24 49 21 16 15 36 24 34 33
2% 3% 1% 2% 2% 2% 2% 1% 2% 2% 2% 1% 1% 3%
8b 374 43 60 97 139 79 141 124 58 52 133 106 156 106
6% 6% 5% 6% 7% 7% 6% 7% 7% 7% 6% 6% 6% 10%
8c 5439 607 1197 1362 1800 1079 2277 1674 803 684 2034 1557 2355 959
91% 90% 94% 91% 91% 91% 92% 92% 90% 91% 92% 92% 92% 87%
8d 32 2 4 12 9 7 10 7 11 4 4 10 16 4
1% * * 1% * 1% * * 1% 1% * 1% 1% *
9a 146 31 27 24 63 32 52 49 27 18 53 33 58 46
2% 5% 2% 2% 3% 3% 2% 3% 3% 2% 2% 2% 2% 4%
9b 327 58 42 94 121 71 121 102 67 37 129 86 134 86
6% 9% 3% 6% 6% 6% 5% 6% 8% 5% 6% 5% 5% 8%
9c 5430 581 1196 1369 1792 1074 2289 1664 781 695 2016 1569 2356 963
91% 86% 94% 91% 90% 90% 92% 91% 88% 92% 91% 93% 92% 87%
9d 44 5 8 11 12 13 14 11 12 6 9 7 13 7
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * * 1% 1%
10a 220 24 24 51 75 70 101 73 24 22 73 64 73 60
4% 4% 2% 3% 4% 6% 4% 4% 3% 3% 3% 4% 3% 5%
10b 650 77 102 155 224 169 278 196 119 57 236 184 260 149
11% 11% 8% 10% 11% 14% 11% 11% 13% 8% 11% 11% 10% 14%
10c5015 566 1134 1276 1668 937 2066 1544 734 671 1880 1432 2202 881
84% 84% 89% 85% 84% 79% 83% 85% 83% 89% 85% 84% 86% 80%
10d 62 8 12 16 21 13 32 13 11 6 18 16 25 11
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
11a 71 8 14 16 29 12 38 19 10 4 28 23 23 23
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2%
11b 220 18 35 67 73 45 103 46 45 26 78 66 95 53
4% 3% 3% 4% 4% 4% 4% 3% 5% 3% 4% 4% 4% 5%
11c5604 645 1218 1397 1867 1122 2316 1750 818 720 2089 1592 2419 1018
94% 96% 96% 93% 94% 94% 94% 96% 92% 95% 95% 94% 94% 92%
11d 52 4 6 19 19 9 20 12 16 5 12 14 24 7
1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
* - indicates less than 0.5%
--------------------------
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
--
John Powell - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Survey, 6/7
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:51:20 GMT
Demographic Data - Card 2, Part 2
---------------------------------
Other Personal
Demographics
Occupation --------------
------------------- Un- Pol/
Exec Whte Blue Home Empl ion Soc
Prof Coll Coll Makr Fems Mbrs Actv
==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ====
T# 1012 1029 1635 746 1641 566 565
%# 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
Q#
___
1a 24 35 50 29 66 26 27
2% 3% 3% 4% 4% 5% 5%
1b 75 87 154 61 151 44 61
7% 8% 9% 8% 9% 8% 11%
1c 911 897 1415 648 1412 493 474
90% 87% 87% 87% 86% 87% 84%
1d 2 9 16 8 13 4 3
* 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
2a 50 45 49 16 77 30 41
5% 4% 3% 2% 5% 5% 7%
2b 131 110 172 60 187 70 90
13% 11% 11% 8% 11% 12% 16%
2c 826 864 1397 663 1359 463 432
82% 84% 85% 89% 83% 82% 76%
2d 6 10 17 6 19 4 2
1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% *
3a 10 17 19 5 16 9 6
1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1%
3b 70 71 114 38 93 49 50
7% 7% 7% 5% 6% 9% 9%
3c 926 926 1476 694 1516 499 506
92% 90% 90% 93% 92% 88% 89%
3d 6 14 27 9 17 9 4
1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 2% 1%
4a 55 64 78 34 113 40 53
5% 6% 5% 5% 7% 7% 9%
4b 124 152 218 107 244 69 106
12% 15% 13% 14% 15% 12% 19%
4c 828 805 1325 599 1273 454 405
82% 78% 81% 80% 78% 80% 72%
4d 5 8 13 6 10 4 1
* 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% *
5a 49 50 42 17 50 23 46
5% 5% 3% 2% 3% 4% 8%
5b 87 92 122 38 126 51 56
9% 9% 7% 5% 8% 9% 10%
5c 872 878 1453 686 1447 487 460
86% 85% 89% 92% 88% 86% 81%
5d 4 9 19 5 17 5 3
* 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
6a 4 6 4 1 7 4 3
* 1% * * * 1% 1%
6b 5 16 17 4 10 7 6
* 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
6c 992 989 1573 726 1588 541 547
98% 96% 96% 97% 97% 95% 97%
6d 12 18 42 15 37 14 9
1% 2% 3% 2% 2% 2% 2%
7a 28 32 45 15 38 17 24
3% 3% 3% 2% 2% 3% 4%
7b 80 107 174 44 152 65 74
8% 10% 11% 6% 9% 11% 13%
7c 900 883 1395 679 1437 482 466
89% 86% 85% 91% 88% 85% 82%
7d 3 7 21 8 15 2 2
* 1% 1% 1% 1% * *
8a 12 20 29 9 23 8 15
1% 2% 2% 1% 1% 1% 3%
8b 47 70 124 41 122 36 47
5% 7% 8% 6% 7% 6% 8%
8c 951 932 1471 689 1489 520 502
94% 91% 90% 92% 91% 92% 89%
8d 2 6 11 7 8 3 2
* 1% 1% 1% * * *
9a 25 28 45 18 39 13 19
2% 3% 3% 2% 2% 2% 3%
9b 38 63 116 32 98 38 33
4% 6% 7% 4% 6% 7% 6%
9c 948 932 1459 691 1490 514 513
94% 91% 89% 93% 91% 91% 91%
9d 2 6 16 5 14 2 1
* 1% 1% 1% 1% * *
10a 34 48 59 27 79 21 22
3% 5% 4% 4% 5% 4% 4%
10b 108 133 199 76 198 73 83
11% 13% 12% 10% 12% 13% 15%
10c 854 839 1355 636 1348 463 456
84% 82% 83% 85% 82% 82% 81%
10d 16 9 22 8 16 9 4
2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1%
11a 10 23 16 4 25 7 8
1% 2% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1%
11b 34 56 80 13 52 33 28
3% 5% 5% 2% 3% 6% 5%
11c 963 943 1522 723 1548 519 525
95% 92% 93% 97% 94% 92% 93%
11d 5 7 18 7 16 7 4
* 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1%
* - indicates less than 0.5%
--------------------------
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
--
John Powell - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Survey, 7/7
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:51:22 GMT
[1] - The actual question preface was: "This card contains a list of
some things that might have happenned to you at some point in your
life, either as a child or as an adult, or both. I'd like you to
read down the card, and for each item tell me, to the best of your
knowledge, if that has happenned to you more than once, once or
twice, or never." The actual available selections were: a) More
than once; b) Once or twice; c) Never; d) Don't know. These
selections, (a, b, c, and d), are indicated in the detailed
Demographic Data section.
Format notes: The order of the questions as listed in Summary I &
II is as presented in the referenced document. The _numerical
order_ corresponds to the order of the questions as presented in
the Demographic Data section and corresponds to the actual order
of the questions as presented to the original respondents.
Card 1 and Card 2, in the Demographic Data section, are each
presented in two parts to conform to an 80-column format. They
were originally presented as a one-page landscape (horizontal
132-column) printout.
For household income the 'M' indicates married couple income.
Occupation is for the interviewed respondent and not the head of
household. The column titled "Empl Fems" indicates employed
females. Geographic designations: NE = Northeast, New England
and Mid-Atlantic states; Midwest = East North Central and West
North Central states; South = South Atlantic, East South Central
and West South Central states; West = Mountain and Pacific states.
(These are combined U.S. Census Regions.) Market size corresponds
to A.C. Nielsen definitions: A = the 25 largest metro areas in
the U.S.; B = individually or aggregately within a metro area have
a population of 150,000 or more; C = individually or aggregately
within a metro area have a population of 35,000 or more; D = all
remaining counties. Although not specifically mentioned in the
study commentary or the data analysis, the "Race Blck" column is
assumed to refer to that portion of respondents who identified
themselves as Afro-American.
The referenced document is assumed to be accurate. THIS DOCUMENT,
ALTHOUGH PROOFREAD TWICE, MAY CONTAIN TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS WHICH
ARE SOLELY MINE.
[2] - Surveys were conducted in July, August, and September 1991. The
Total and monthly respondent figures are listed. The individual
month margin of sampling error is +/- 3%, the total sample margin
of sampling error is +/- 1.4% After demographic exclusions,
185,000,000 people are represented by the total survey. "Thus,
when 8% of our respondents reported that they have 'seen unusual
lights or balls of light in a room without knowing what was
causing them, or where they came from,' that 8% can be said to
represent a total of 14,800,000 Americans."
[3] - TRONDANT is a fictional word and the question was included "in an
attempt to guage the reliability of people's responses. It is
interesting to note that only 1% of respondents, the lowest for
any item, report this as having happenned."
[4] - PSA = Political Social Actives; Roper terms them Influential
Americans and defines them as: "predominantly in their thirties
and forties, are married and have children. They are wealthier
than most Americans, with a median income of $38,700, compared to
$28,300 for the total population. On average, Influentials are
also better educated - 43% of Influentials are college graduates,
compared to 30% of the total population."
[5] - Percentages have been rounded off "to the nearest whole percent."
This means that adding sub-item percentages may yeild values
greater than 100%.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
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John Powell - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Survey, 7/7
Date: 19 Oct 92 07:06:00 GMT
John:
Nice posting! I was particularly interested in this passage:
>
> [3] - TRONDANT is a fictional word and the question was
> included "in an
> attempt to guage the reliability of people's
> responses. It is
> interesting to note that only 1% of respondents, the
> lowest for
> any item, report this as having happenned."
>
.. which makes me wonder how many people read through that survey like this:
>> ... Yeah ... once or twice. ...
>> ... Oh yeah! More than twice ... about 4 or 5 times! ...
>> ... Yep! At least 3 times. ...
>> ... Oh yeah! -- TRONDANT!! Wow! I haven't heard *that*
>> word in a LONG time! F***in' TRONDANT! Now what was that
>> supposed to mean, anyway? ... Wow! Just thinking of
>> that word again is causing me to have FLASHBACKS!! ...
>> I can still see THOSE EYES!! ... And that sulphur smell
>> that Whitley used to describe! ... Too much!! ...
I'd bet that the number of people who fall for TRONDANT is a lot
higher on these paranormal-related bbs-es. -- probably *much*
higher than 1%!
-- John
--
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INTERNET: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
*******************************************************************************
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 76
Wednesday, October 28th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
CALIF
"Linda" Abduction Case - Part 1
"Linda" Abduction Case - Conclusion
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: LONE.RANGER@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (LONE RANGER)
Subject: CALIF
Date: 21 Oct 92 00:11:00 GMT
Just arrived here from California. The abduction fever is much
higher
over there. Was involved in abduction support groups. Are there any
here? I have undergone intense regression, and have much documented
supporet from credible Dr.'s.
Any feedbak?
--
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INTERNET: LONE.RANGER@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: "Linda" Abduction Case - Part 1
Date: 27 Oct 92 01:25:05 GMT
* Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
* Originally by Michael Corbin
* Originally to All
* Originally dated 26 Oct 1992, 18:24
Below are the original posting that Don Allen provided ParaNet
regarding George Hansen's position on the "Linda" abduction case,
and a rebuttal from Jerome Clark.
We have provided this material in this fashion for clarity and
continuity.
** HOT ITEM **
This was forwarded to me by a friend who is pretty tight in some
UFO circles. According to my friend, this was what was part of
the discussion at the recent get together at the UN. I will
leave it with you. I have no further information available, but
hopefully this posting will serve to stimulate discussion.
Judging from it's contents, I don't think that will be a problem :-)
=========================================================================
Attempted Murder vs. The Politics of Ufology: A Question of
Priorities in the Linda Napolitano Case
by George P. Hansen
-----------------------------------------------------------------
ABSTRACT: UFO abductee Linda Napolitano claims that she was kidnapped,
assaulted, battered, harassed, and nearly drowned by two agents of the U.S.
government. Prominent ufologists Budd Hopkins, John E. Mack, David M. Jacobs,
Jerome Clark and Walter H. Andrus, Jr. accept these claims. Hopkins has
collected extensive materials that could be used to help apprehend and convict
the agents. Yet Hopkins, Clark and Andrus have vigorously argued that these
crimes should not be reported to law enforcement authorities; they indicate
that such could be "politically damaging" to UFO research. These ufologists
are asked to defend their decision and priorities.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Budd Hopkins' case involving the abduction of Linda Napolitano by a UFO has
been discussed in the Wall Street Journal (May 14, 1992, pp. A1, A10), Omni
(April 1992, p. 75), Paris Match (17 Sept. 92, pp. 13-14, 18, 96, 98), and the
New York Times (October 5, 1992, pp. B1, B2). The Mufon UFO Journal labeled it
"The Abduction Case of the Century" (August 1992, p. 9). By virtue of this
intense interest, it will become an exemplar for the study of UFO abductions.
Briefly, it is asserted that at about 3:15 a.m. on November 30, 1989, Linda
Napolitano floated out of her 12th floor apartment in lower Manhattan.
Allegedly three witnesses in a car about two blocks away observed Linda and
three humanoid figures emerge from a window and ascend into a craft hovering
over her building. Two of the witnesses, Richard and Dan, were government
security officers who were guarding the third witness, a dignitary. More than
a year after the case, Richard and Dan wrote to Hopkins describing what they
saw, and a few weeks later they visited Linda in her apartment. Hopkins has
never met these two but has over 80 pages of letters from them, and he has
accumulated much other material pertinent to the case.
The affair is quite complex, and the story is now only beginning to be told.
Hopkins presented a few details at the 1992 MUFON convention in Albuquerque and
then in the September 1992 issue of the Mufon UFO Journal. One of the most
disturbing elements of the case is that felonies were allegedly committed by
the government agents; these include assault, battery, kidnapping and attempted
murder.
Hopkins' published account of this aspect is so sketchy that some might
consider it deliberately misleading. His entire written summary is only one
sentence long: "In April and again in October 1991, Linda would suffer hours-
long forced confinements and interrogations at the hands of these confused
frightened `law-enforcement' officers; she would be struck by a car during a
chase through the streets of lower Manhattan" (Mufon UFO Journal, September
1992, pp. 13, 14). Hopkins' brief statement hardly conveys the gravity of the
situation. It suggests that he may have taken these matters much too lightly.
The kidnappings and attempted murder
On January 28, 1992, Linda Napolitano contacted Richard Butler and requested
a meeting because she was concerned about her personal safety, and she was
worried that Hopkins might not be able to adequately protect her. Linda had
earlier become friends with Butler at meetings in the home of Budd Hopkins. On
February 1, 1992, Linda met with Butler along with Joseph Stefula, a former
Special Agent with the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command who has
extensive contacts in law enforcement.
During the meeting, Linda stated that in April 1991 she encountered security
agent Richard on the street near her apartment. She was asked to get into a
car that Dan was driving, but she refused. Richard then picked her up and,
with some struggle, forced her into the automobile. Linda reported that she
was driven around for 3 1/2 hours and interrogated about the aliens.
At the MUFON symposium in July 1992, Linda was asked if she had reported the
kidnapping to the police. She said that she had not and went on to say that
the kidnapping was legal because it had to do with national security; she later
commented that she did not want to go head to head with a government agency
because she might be killed and pieces of her might be found in the East River
(Hopkins did not dispute these statements). Linda did remember another car
being involved with the kidnapping, and under hypnotic regression she recalled
the license plate number of that automobile, as well as part of the number of
the car she was in. Hopkins reports that the numbers have been traced to
particular agencies.
During the February 1 meeting with Stefula and Butler, Linda reported that
on the morning of October 15, 1991, Dan pulled her into a red Jaguar sports
car. Linda happened to be carrying a tape recorder and was able to
surreptitiously record a small part of Dan's questioning, but within a few
minutes he discovered and confiscated it. Dan drove to a beach house on the
shore of Long Island. There he demanded that Linda remove her clothes and put
on a white nightgown, similar to the one she wore the night of the UFO
abduction. He said he wanted to have sex with her. She refused but then
agreed to put on the nightgown over her clothes. Once she did, Dan droppped to
his knees and started to talk incoherently about her being the "Lady of the
Sands." She fled the beach house, but Dan caught her on the beach and bent her
arm behind her. He placed two fingers on the back of her neck, leading Linda
to believe that it was a gun. He then forced her into the water and pushed her
head under twice. He continued to rave incoherently, and as her head was being
pushed under for the third time, she believed that she would not come up again.
Then, a "force" hit Dan and knocked him back onto the beach. Linda started to
run but heard a sound like a gun being cocked. She looked back and saw Dan
taking a picture of her (the pictures were eventually sent to Hopkins). She
continued to move, but Richard came running, seemingly out of nowhere. He
stopped her and convinced her to return to the beach house, and he told her
that he would control Dan by giving him a Mickey Finn. She agreed to the plan.
Once inside, Richard put Dan in the shower to wash off the mud from the beach.
This gave Linda a chance to search the premises; she recovered her cassette
tape and discovered stationery bearing a Central Intelligence Agency
letterhead.
In a brief conversation on October 3, 1992, Hopkins told me that Linda came
to him shortly after she arrived back in Manhattan after the kidnapping. She
was disheveled, had sand in her hair, and was traumatized by the experience.
Linda also reported to Stefula and Butler that on December 15 and December
16, 1991, one of the men had tried to make contact with her near the shopping
area of the South Street Seaport. He was driving a large black Fleetwood sedan
with Saudi Arabian United Nations license plates. To avoid him, Linda said that
she went into a shop during the first incident. The second day a similar thing
happened, and she stood next to some businessmen until he left the area.
<<Concluded in next message..>>
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: "Linda" Abduction Case - Conclusion
Date: 27 Oct 92 01:25:07 GMT
* Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
* Originally by Michael Corbin
* Originally to All
* Originally dated 26 Oct 1992, 18:24
<<..Continued from previous message>>
Evidence accumulated by Hopkins
Hopkins reports accumulating much information about the identities of
Richard and Dan, and this could be extremely helpful in a criminal
investigation. He has approximately 80 pages of letters from the two men.
These might potentially be used to identify typewriters on which they were
produced. They may also contain fingerprints. Hopkins has tape recordings of
Richard and Dan; perhaps these could be used to help identify them by
voiceprints. Hopkins claims to know which government agency employs the two.
He says that he knows the identity of the dignitary they were guarding, and
this person should be in a position to help locate and identify Richard and
Dan. (Linda told Stefula and Butler that the dignitary was Javier Perez de
Cuellar, then Secretary General of the United Nations.)
The counsel of ufology's leaders
The reader may be tempted to dismiss Linda's account as a preposterous
script for a grade B movie, and I personally do not believe her claims.
However, several notable figures in ufology have expressed the conviction that
Linda is telling the truth. On October 6, 1992, I spoke with Dr. John Mack,
former head of the psychiatry department at Harvard Medical School, and he
confirmed that he had met Linda and concluded that she was not the type of
person to make up this kind of story. That same day I also spoke with David
Jacobs, a professor of history at Temple University, an abduction research
colleague of Budd Hopkins, and author of the book Secret Life. He too believed
that Linda was telling the truth.
Hopkins presented additional secret evidence to Walter Andrus and Jerome
Clark who are now both persuaded of Linda's honesty. Andrus and Clark are
arguably the two most influential figures in U.S. ufology. Andrus is
International Director of the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), and he organizes the
largest annual conference on UFOs in the country and regularly writes for
MUFON's monthly magazine. Clark is a columnist for Fate magazine, editor of
International UFO Reporter, and a vice-president of the Center for UFO Studies.
At a meeting in New York City on October 3, 1992, Linda said that she is
willing to testify against Richard and Dan (though she had previously indicated
that she was afraid of filing charges herself). I informed those at the
meeting that I was prepared to make a formal request for a federal
investigation of the attempted murder of Linda. Hopkins, Andrus, and Clark all
vigorously objected to this, and they strongly urged me not to do so. They
said that such action would be "politically damaging" to ufology. I was
extremely puzzled by their reasoning and their apparent priorities. On October
5, 1992, two days later, I called Andrus to make certain that I understood his
position. I asked him to join with me and request a formal investigation of
these allegations by the proper law enforcement agencies. I explained to him
that UFO researchers were generally not qualified to investigate attempted
murder. I was taken aback when Andrus asked me what right I had to raise these
issues. He again urged that the crimes not be reported. The following day I
spoke with Clark. He told me that he accepted Linda's statements, and he
reaffirmed his opposition to reporting the crimes.
I have not been given a satisfactory explanation for their views. At risk
is not only the safety of Linda but also that of the general public. If federal
agents have engaged in kidnapping and attempted murder, they should be brought
to justice. The matter is of great concern for the general citizenry and for
the conduct of UFO abduction research. I call upon Clark, Andrus, and Hopkins
to publicly explain their rationale and priorities.
20 October 1992
-------End of forwarded post----------------------------------------------
The Politics of Torquemada; or, Earth Calling Hansen's Planet
George Hansen, who is short on ufological experience but
long on self-righteous blather, is distributing a document
entitled "Attempted Murder vs. the Politics of Ufology: A
question of Priorities in the Linda Napolitano Case." In an
October 13 memo addressed to Budd Hopkins, Walt Andrus, John
Mack, David Jacobs, and me, Hansen grandiosely announces, "I plan
to publish this in periodicals devoted to UFOs and mail copies to
leading ufologists, boards of directors of MUFON, CUFOS, and the
Intruders Foundation, and funders of UFO research. I also expect
to post this on electronic bulletin boards and send copies to
reporter for Omni, the New York Times, Paris Match, and the Wall
Street Journal."
In the extremely unlikely event that Hansen's communication
does not end up in the CP file of these latter publications and I
receive a call or visit from a reporter from the same, I will
inform him or her of the following:
Hansen claims that when he expressed a desire to "make a
formal request for a federal investigation of Linda, "Hopkins,
Andrus, and I "strongly urged me not to do so. They said that
such action would be politically damaging to ufology." I cannot
speak for budd and Walt, though I know them to be men of
integrity. I can, however, state flatly that Hansen's
characterization of my remarks is, in its first half, misleading
and, in its second, blatantly false.
Hansen called me late on the evening of October 6, two days
after my return from New York City and the meeting with
proponents and critics of the Linda case. As i have told Buldd
and others, I have serious problems with the story. I told Budd
that at this stage too many links in the chain of evidence are
missing to sustain a suspension of unbelief. Moreover, some
aspects of it seem to me to be impossible. At the same time I
have problems with the charge that Linda hoaxed the entire even,
an allegation that -- in view of the extraordinary complexity of
this episode, not to mention what I observed of and learned about
Linda's personality -- strikes me as simplistic and unconvincing.
Tow metal-health professionals (not counting John Mack here) who
know Linda far better that Hansen does concur, emphatically.
My thoughts about all this are complicated, and I could
devote many pages to them. I shall not do so here, however. At
the meeting in which the case was discussed, I kept an open mind;
in fact, I may have been the only individual there who had not
come to a firm and unshakable conclusion. Finally I suggested
what I thought would be a compromise acceptable to all whose
motive was to find the truth.
I urged the critics to refrain, over the next six months,
form pursuing the investigation, which they had indicated now
consisted, or would soon consist, of knocking on the doors of
government agencies looking for evidence of the elusive Richard
and Dan. I stated that, if this story is true, it is no just a
UFO case but a "politically sensitive" event because it
supposedly involves a political figure of international stature
and therefore has consequences far outside the tiny world of
ufology. If that is indeed the case, we would never find Richard
and Dan (if they exist as who they say they are) because banging
on the wrong doors could alert the relevant agency that two of
its agents were leaking a huge secret. They would then be
effectively silenced, and we would never learn the truth.
If, on the other hand, the story is a hoax, I went on, a
six-month delay will have no effect on that fact, and the
evidence will be just as retrievable then as now. I assumed we
were all in this a truth-seeker, I said, and I thought my idea of
a compromise best served that end.
Rich Butler and Joe Stefula, critics and honorable men,
immediately saw my point and agreed. George "Torquemada" Hansen,
however, proceeded to shout that "science doesn't work that way,"
to which I rejoined that , if the story was true, this is not
just a scientific matter but a political one as well. Nothing I
said could have led anyone to think I meant the "politics of
ufology." The context made it clear to everyone that the
"politics" to which I referred was the national and international
political realm of which the Third Man is allegedly a resident
and in which (again if they are who they claim to be) Richard and
Dan operate.
To anyone who has read my voluminous writings on ufology's
problems and concerns, the notion that I would urge the
concealment of truth for any reason -- least of all "political
damage" to ufology -- is laughable.
My printed record shows just the opposite: a fierce
commitment to the truth above and beyond anything else. No one
has been so consistently, even obsessively, outspoken on the
subject of ufologists' need for radical objectivity, vigorous
debate, and fearless scrutiny of all issues, regardless of their
potential effect on someone's misguided vision of ufology's
institutional interests. Anyone who doubts any of this is
invited to read a few IUR editorials.
Therefore I am forced to conclude that Hansen deliberately
misrepresented my remarks. In all the conversations I had with
the principals of this case, I recall no one's saying that
Hansen's proposed "action would be politically damaging to
ufology." If anyone had used that as an excuse for inaction, I
would have spoken up, bluntly, to state precisely what I thought
of that.
At any rate, what the proponents did talk about, in my
hearing, was their concern about Linda's well being. Budd, who
is a profoundly decent man, feels strongly that the attacks on
Linda are unfair, unfounded and injurious to a woman who already
has suffered enough. Valid or invalid, this concern -- not
damage to the "politics of ufology" (whatever that's supposed to
mean) -- dominated Budd's conversations with me.
Still, since our exchanges in New York had been entirely
cordial, I was unprepared for Hansen's behavior when he called me
on October 6. I thought he wanted to continue our discussion of
the case, but as I started to explain my thoroughly ambivalent
feelings, he cut me off, said curtly that he would be brief, and
asked if I thought Linda was lying. I said I doubted it, for
many reasons, which Hansen, who by now had thoroughly demonized
the poor woman, did not want to hear. He informed me that by not
sanctioning his plan to go to federal authorities, I was doing
effectively aiding and abetting gross misuse of police power. I
said that if such action were to be taken, it is Linda's
decision, not mine or his, to make, and I could not see how
anyone could think otherwise. Knowing more about this than
Hansen does, I added that the story contains elements which, if
Linda is telling the truth, seem to explain her what otherwise
looks like a puzzling reluctance to act. In any case, I added,
it was clear enough that Hansen, his pious assertion to the
contrary (see the hilariously hypocritical concluding paragraph
of his article), sought not to help Linda but to destroy her.
Hansen was at least honest enough not to deny that. Instead
he chose to try to intimidate me. He warned that he intended to
turn my name, address, and phone number, along with Hopkins', et
al, into the FBI. He then launched into a diatribe in which he
accused my colleagues and me of "living in a delusional world."
On Hansen's planet, apparently, those who disagree with him are
not just wrong but deluded and, perhaps, as his paper implies,
intellectually corrupt and, moreover, deserving of the attention
of police agencies. I said, "George, you're full of shit," and
hung up on him. His subsequent pronouncements have only served
to confirm the cogency of that analysis.
So what is the significance of the Linda case? I don't
know. Let me repeat: I don't know. Does anybody? It is
staggeringly complex, and the available evidence can be read in
several ways, though certainly in none. I admire Budd Hopkins
for his dogged, courageous pursuit of the evidence, and I respect
those who, like Butler, Stefula, and Don Johnson, honestly
dissent from Budd's interpretation. As an unbeliever (in other
words, neither believer nor disbeliever), I support all rational
debate on the issue.
In my opinion, at this stage of an incomplete and ongoing
investigation, the only conclusion with which I feel comfortable
is this one: Time will tell. Then again, maybe it won't. Am am
I the only one out there with a tolerance for ambiguity?
Jerome Clark
October 24, 1992
PARANET FILENAME: NAPOL.TXT
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 77
Saturday, October 31st 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
possible abduction case
CALIF
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: possible abduction case
Date: 28 Oct 92 13:45:00 GMT
This message was from NICK BOUTROS to ALL,
originally in conference UFO Echo
and was forwarded to you by JIM SPEISER.
-------------------------
As probibly some of you have read, about 3 weeks ago I realized that
there was a prossible abduction case in my neighborhood. A close
friend of mine, about 5 months ago, described a very odd dream he had had
to me.. the dream consisted of him jumping through a set of four
groups of squares connected by four lines... he drew me a picture too.
I wish I had a scanner so I could have my sysop put it up for freq... but
it looked like 4 squares connected by four lines forming a larger square,
each one with a smaller square inside of it and another smaller square
inside of it then another smaller square inside of that then a dot inside
of the smallest square... he also said that he thought thaat the picture
was missing something but he couldn't remember what.. Now what jared my
memory of this was looking at a picture of the Pleiedies trying to follow
up a conversation with Tessa Hebert (thanks Tessa)... anyways, after
going back and asking him about his dream, I discovered that this wasn't
the only odd dream he had had but was one of a series of strange events.
It seems to have all started about 10 months ago...
in the first dream, he was out on his wooden back deck in the middle of
the night. he said that he felt like he was being watched and after getting
out to the edge of the deck was pulled into the sky by what he thought of as
a 'tractor beam' (THIS IS IN THE DREAM)... We've explored the possibility
of this having some symbolic meaing but found no reason he'd have a dream
like that...
Next, about 2 months later, a strange cut appeared on his finger
inbetween his middle finger and and pinky finger. he drew me a pic of the
cut too. it was like an up-side-down "U" with right angels instead of
curves.. the cut barely went though his second layer of skin and didn't bleed
at all and was gone within a week. From what I understand, all the lines in
it were exactly the same lenth... I asked if he knew of anything that would do
that, say if he rolled over in his bed onto it... and he said no.
later about at the beginning of the summer he had another stange dream
that was actually about aliens.. but they didn't look anything like the
'greys' or 'nortics'.. infact they looked alot like humans with ugly black
make-up on if hee remembers correctly. anyways, in the dream, he was climbing
a tree about a block from his house and was picked up by aliens (he doesn't
remember the details though).. after being on the ship for what seemed like a
long time, the 'captain' of the ship wouldn't let him off. he described the
ship as a cone shape but really isn't sure. I thought this was rather
strange when I heard about it... but he claims the dream really accured.
Then, about a month later, (he doesn't remember just when but it was
around 3 months ago), he had the dream about the squares.. I showed him
the picture I found in the book of the Pleiadies... he thought it looked like
the the squares in his dream too... We hypothezed that the aliens were
leaving information in him to either be used for when he gets older and the
aliens are our allies or for navigational information for other aliens and
that this was actually one of their routes, the sets of squares representing
solar systems and the squares inside were planet's orbits.
The next thing to happen is the second piece of physical evidence...
sometime about 5 weeks after the 'squares' dream, according to my friend,
his feet started to hurt alot when he didn't do anything stressful to them
the day before. Apparently this happened twice and both times no one else
living in the house heard anything unusual making it appear unlikely that
he's sleepwalking.
Now this next thing happened somewhere close to the end of summer..
Anyways, in this dream, he was actually in bed in a very restless sleep..
anyway, for some reason he rolled over and fell onto the floor. after what
seemed like some time, he had a very strange sensation... he couldn't really
explain it with anymore detail than that it felt like something was reading
his mind... we started to thinking about why/how this would happen and that's
how we came up with the theory that someone was using him for navigational
purposes.. in other words, they were storing information in his brain to be
taken out later. of course we have absolutely no way of knowing this... We
also think that the aliens aren't letting him remember these dreams on
purpose. That would mean that the aliens form of memory 'washing' isn't
totally perfected yet leaving patches of what really happened in his
subconsience as parts of dreams.
now, finally after writing this whole thing up, my friend called me
around 2 days ago before I had a chance to post this.. seems SOMETHING is
making real strange sounds outside of his window... like a really light
pattering of a helicopter but because the sounds is very 'solid' (it didn't
go away or fade), we doubt that's what it is.. I asked him to record the
sound but weather has been real unstable lately so he won't have it for
about a week.. according to him, the sound can usually be heard around 12:
30am and he's sure that it isn't anything inside his room making the sound..
if he does record it, I'm going to convert it over to a "VOC" file and upload
it to a BBS so anyone that wants to hear it can do so with a Sound Blaster
card or compatible... I know this stuff sounds real strange but I totally
trust this person and am ABSOLUTELY sure he's not lying about any of this so
if it sounds like another abduction case please tell me.
Thanks,
Nick
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: CALIF
Date: 28 Oct 92 13:45:00 GMT
LR>Just arrived here from California. The abduction fever is much higher
LR>over there. Was involved in abduction support groups. Are there any
LR>here? I have undergone intense regression, and have much documented
LR>supporet from credible Dr.'s.
LR>Any feedbak?
Welcome! --
Would you mind sharing your experiences in a little more detail?
Jim
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 78
Tuesday, November 10th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Linda Case
Survey
Linda Case
Interesting Account
It's All In Your Head 1/
It's All In Your Head 2/
Interesting Account Con't
Artesia, New Mexico
Linda case
Spheres and OOBE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Linda Case
Date: 2 Nov 92 07:53:16 GMT
Hold on. Steady. The attacks are beginning to be mounted in the Linda case.
Hansen's is probably not the last of them. Please reserve judgement until Budd
publishes all of his data. Budd Hopkins is one of the most respected research-
ers in the history of UFO investigations. He deserves to have the benefit of
the doubt in all attacks until he publishes the complete history of the Linda
case. I will have more to say about this case in the future.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Survey
Date: 2 Nov 92 06:14:02 GMT
-=> Quoting John Burke to John Powell <=-
JB> Nice posting! I was particularly interested in this
JB> passage:
> [3] - TRONDANT is a fictional word... [...]
JB> ... which makes me wonder how many people read through that survey
JB> like this:
>> ... Yeah ... once or twice. ...
>> ... Oh yeah! More than twice ... about 4 or 5 times! ...
>> ... Yep! At least 3 times. ...
>> ... Oh yeah! -- TRONDANT!! Wow! I haven't heard *that*
>> word in a LONG time! F***in' TRONDANT! Now what was that
>> supposed to mean, anyway? ... Wow! Just thinking of
>> that word again is causing me to have FLASHBACKS!! ...
>> I can still see THOSE EYES!! ... And that sulphur smell
>> that Whitley used to describe! ... Too much!! ...
I think Whitley's sulphur smell had rather more to do with what he ate
than what was eating him...<GRIN, pffutt, pfffutt!>
JB> I'd bet that the number of people who fall for TRONDANT is
JB> a lot higher on these paranormal-related bbs-es. --
JB> probably *much* higher than 1%!
I don't honestly know but I honestly wouldn't be surprised. There is
already an attractant associated with time on paranormal-related BBSs...
Oh darn... There's that sulphur odor again... Gotta go! <GRIN>
Thanks, take care.
John.
-
<Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence>
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Don.Allen@p1.f81.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen)
Subject: Linda Case
Date: 4 Nov 92 15:18:00 GMT
> AREA:ABDUCT
> Hold on. Steady. The attacks are beginning to be mounted in the
> Linda case. Hansen's is probably not the last of them. Please
> reserve judgement until Budd publishes all of his data. Budd
> Hopkins is one of the most respected researchers in the history of
> UFO investigations. He deserves to have the benefit of the doubt in
> all attacks until he publishes the complete history of the Linda
> case. I will have more to say about this case in the future.
Hi David,
Can you answer 2 questions?
1). How reliable is Linda's story?
2). Who else can verify Hopkin's data?
Thanks!
Don
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gary.Long@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Gary Long)
Subject: Interesting Account
Date: 6 Nov 92 07:09:46 GMT
(157) Tue 3 Nov 92 21:14
By: Cliff Treadaway
To: Steve Gresser
Re: Area 51 names
St:
------------------------------------------------------------
@MSGID: 1:3632/24 5095891c
@REPLY: 1:114/37 9616a2f6
@PID: GE 1/b20
I read your message and if you are really serious about your ufo's, here's a
first hand account:
In 1968 I worked with my father on a wireline tug (we cleaned parafin buildup
out of producing oil wells). I believe it was about June of 1968, we had pulled
up to a well about 3 miles west of Point-a-la-Hache, Louisiana. At about 7:00
am, my Dad, as was his practice, began cooking a stew for lunch. At about 8:30
we hooked up to the well and were about to start "going down" with the cleaning
tool. To the East, on a bright, sunny, blue sky kind of day, we noticed what
appeared to be an airplane. It was very shiny. One problem...it wasn't moving.
We watched it in silence for what we thought was about 10 minutes. At the end
of the 10 minutes, we shrugged it off, mainly because it disappeared. I went
to check the stew...it had burned completely to charcoal in the black iron pot.
We checked our watches, It was 4:00 pm.
What happened? We don't know. We called Alvin Calendar Naval Air Base and
reported the incident by phone. They took the information but nothing ever
came of it. It seemed very strange, but we have not had any ill effects other
than we don't talk about it, because everybody at the time thought we were
nuts! We lost almost a whole day. Neither one of us have any memory of the
event except that we agree on what it looked like....kind of cigar shaped with
a tail or antennae on the right, that seemed to rotate to a center position
prior to zooming away almost straight up.
Is this weird or what?
--
Gary Long - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Gary.Long@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: It's All In Your Head 1/
Date: 7 Nov 92 05:41:02 GMT
* Forwarded from "Fidonet UFO Conference"
* Originally by Ralph Toscano
* Originally to All
* Originally dated 30 Oct 1992, 10:53
I thought that the following article would be of interest to my fellow
users...
This article is verbatim from the New Haven Register, (i.e., New Haven
Connecticut for those of you not familiar with New England).
Dr. Ring is a professor of psychology at UConn,(University of
Connecticut) in Storrs Connecticut...and Author of the book...
"The Omega Project"
*********************************************************************
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 29, 1992
NEW HAVEN REGISTER
HEALTH AND SCIENCE
"Unusual Encounters: Imagine opening a window in the brain to another
reality"
By Abram Katz
Register Science Editor
*********************************************************************
STORRS - Some people might give you incredulous arched eyebrows if you
recounted how an alien craft beamed you aboard to undergo a mysterious
physical exam by extraterrestrials creatures.
But Kenneth Ring wouldn't.
Ring, professor of psychology at the University of Connecticut, has
probably listened to mores tales of flying saucer abduction than anyone
from this world. He takes them seriously, but not literally.
Ring, the first researcher to systematically study the vivid visions and
feelings of near-death experiences, became interested in descriptions of
encounters with Unidentifed Flying Objects after reading a book about
them in 1987.
Ring's latest studies are contained in "The Omega Project: Near-Death
Experiences, UFO Encounters and the Mind at Large," a 320 page book
recently published by William Morrow and Co.
Ring found that both groups -- people who have had a near-death
experience and visits from aliens -- seem to have similar psychological
profiles. People who've seen the pure white light of the afterlife or
the large unblinking eyes of aliens are likely to report a history of
child abuse, trauma and stress.
Both phenomena may be rooted in an unusually acute psychological
sensitivity that not everyone shares, Ring says. Childhood abuse may
arouse or trigger this sensitivity.
But Ring emphasizes that this is not necessarily a matter of brain
chemistry or nuerology.
Flying saucers weren't observed until the first atom bomb was dropped,
and some UFO encounters may be the result of anxiety about nuclear
weapons and planetary destruction. Similarly, some who have near-death
experiences may be responding to an increasingly impersonal and
materialistic culture.
However, Ring favors a much more esoteric explanation -- one that many
other psychologists won't touch with a 10-foot phaser:
These people seem to be able to perceive another dimension
closed to the rest of us, a power that could mark a new stage in
the evolution of the mind, Ring says in an incongruously
matter-of-fact manner.
Ring is less interested in the blurry metaphysics of this strange world
of imagination that in the measureable physical and psychological
changes that emerge after a near-death experience or a UFO encounter.
"Is there any type of person who is especially susceptible to unusual
encounters like near-death experiences or UFO encounters? What are the
after effects?" Ring asked.
Ring stressed that he has no reason to believe that the planet is being
visited by beings from other worlds. "I'm not convinced by any evidence
that there are literal spacecraft coming to Earth to do nefarious things
to humans," Ring said in his sparse office.
A more likely hypothesis is that the affected groups have brain
anomalies, perhaps in the temporal lobe or limbic system, that permit
them to have near-death experiences or UFO encounters he said.
Something real has happened to these people. It needs to be looked at.
We have a mystery on our hands. Regardless of whether these experiences
are blissful or bestial they transform people," Ring said.
Most scientists are convinced that the experiences seem real but are no
more than a new kind of nuerological condition, or a sort of seizure.
It's difficult to assess the stories of tall thin aliens and elevation
on light beams without knowing about the rest of the narrator's life,
said Dr. Selby C. Jacobs, professor of psychiatry at the Yale School of
Medicine.
"I still don't know what to make of it," Jacob said of a UFO encounter
described by a heavy machine operator with a grade school education.
"It's not the type of thought content typical of delusional disorders.
It's coherent, detailed, highly developed and too graphic," Jacobs said.
"I don't think there was a spaceship," Jacobs added. The man may have
experienced an altered state of consciousness, or brought up a childhood
trauma in disguise, he said.
"Something funny happened in his brain. I'm not sure it's pathological.
I'm willing to accept it as within the realm of human experience,"
Jacobs said.
Jerome L. Singer, professor of psychology at Yale, said near-death
experiences and UFO abductions are legitimate to study as artifacts of
the imagination. Victims of childhood trauma sometimes develop extreme
bizarre fanatasies as adults, Singer said.
Ultimately, both phenomena may represent a strong fear of death through
escape or the existence of an afterlife, Singer said.
Or perhaps, Ring said, the people who have these visions have somehow
opened a window onto another reality -- the "imaginal realm" -- a kind
of twilight zone altered state between thinking and dreaming.
"Suppose we were aware only of sunlight. Some people might say 'There's
another world where sunlight is absent, with a black sky and stars and
planets.' If we only lived in a solar consciousness we wouldn't know
that exists," Ring said.
More to the point, people who say they've had near-death experiences or
UFO abductions "see" objects that they couldn't have seen, Ring said. In
one case a woman who was dead momentarily on an operating table floated
above the roof of the hospital and saw a single gym shoe that later was
found.
Others who have approached death have seen relatives they never knew or
did not know about, Ring said.
"We don't have neurological theory to explain this," Ring said. Nor is
there a way to explain why many of these people are left more sensitive
to light, sound and other stimuli; with different blood pressure and
temperature; different sleep patterns and a greater sense of social
concern and spirituality.
>>> Continued to next message
* OLX 2.2 * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: It's All In Your Head 2/
Date: 7 Nov 92 05:42:04 GMT
* Forwarded from "Fidonet UFO Conference"
* Originally by Ralph Toscano
* Originally to All
* Originally dated 30 Oct 1992, 10:53
>>> Continued from previous message
The human body or brain may contain as yet unknown sensory organs of a
type unimagined, or may be somehow sensitive to extremely low energy
fields, Ring said.
Another complication is that while near-death and UFO captures seem
similar, they have very different effects on the people who experience
them.
Brushes with death typically bring a feeling of security and leave
people exhilarated and peaceful, while supposed interactions with aliens
cause the opposite reaction. Panic gives way to a sense of violation,
and concludes with hatred, anger and confusion, Ring found.
Also, near-death experiences usually happen only once to a person in
adulthood, while UFO episodes are frequently recurrent, often starting
in early childhood.
"We need to do research to reconcile these facts. We need to go beyond
the territory in which most scientists feel comfortable," Ring said.
***********************[ END OF FILE ]********************************
* OLX 2.2 * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gary.Long@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Gary Long)
Subject: Interesting Account Con't
Date: 8 Nov 92 07:38:22 GMT
(267) Thu 5 Nov 92 21:28
By: Tim Rue
To: All
Re: recall - Yes or No?
St:
------------------------------------------------------------
@MSGID: 1:133/208.0 2af9d830
Being someone whom knows he has had encounters and satisfactory reason to
believe he has also been abducted, I have a question.
What positive productive value might I receive by taking steps to recall
details of such events?
Please, only reply with quality responces. I don't want or need skeptics,
deception, or suggestions. What I want is feedback based on actual case
studies of the improvements others have gained by recalling such
experences.
___
X EZ 1.30 X Society - the force which determines the norm
wb
David,
If you have any interest in responding to this individual, I'd be happy to
cross post your input. Thanks for your meaningful endeavors!
--Gary
--
Gary Long - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Gary.Long@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Scott.Colborn@p0.f31.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Scott Colborn)
Subject: Artesia, New Mexico
Date: 9 Nov 92 05:46:47 GMT
My name is Scott Colborn, Director of the Fortean Research Center in Lincoln,
NE. I
I'm working on what appears to be an abduction case involving a Lincoln, NE,
woman. She believes that she has been taken to an underground facility called
Artesia. This underground facility is staffed by human military personal and
"alien" beings. An alien being that was a major player in her on-going contacts
was for a time being held at this facility. Whether this "being" was being held
to gauge her response and evaluate a bonding, or whether this "being" actually
was violating prodedures with regards to emotional ties to this woman is
conjecture. She has undergone hypnosis and through this process she has rememb-
ered that she was taken to this facility to interact with hybrid children.
The woman described the terrain as slightly rolling, the temperature as being
hot, with a water source nearby and some trees along or near the water source.
I've done some preliminary research and concluded that the best "fit" to the
physical description given by the Lincoln woman is the area surrounding
Artesia, New Mexico. (She was told by one of the "beings" that the name of the
facility was "Artesia.")
The town of Artesia, New Mexico and the general area surrounding the town seem
to fit her description. I travelled through the area in July, `92, and the
Pecos River is to the east of the town.
I would like to ask for assistance in several areas. First, are any of you
familiar with an "Artesia" in your area? It could be a name for an area, but I
think it probably describes a city or town. Secondly, has anyone come across
reports of abductions where an individual was taken to an area that might fit
the "Artesia" description? Thirdly, how about reports involving what appear
to be humans in fatigues interacting with "aliens" in a facility in which
hybrid children are kept?
I realize that the above information is sparse, sketchy and bare-bones. In
researching this information I've had several interesting "responses" in the
form of an unsigned letter warning me to cease and desist from my efforts to
find out more about "Artesia." Additionally, during a radio program I host in
Lincoln, NE, as a guest (William Hamilton) and I had just begun to talk about
" the alien presence on Earth and rumored underground bases," the radio station
went off the air. To make a long story longer, suffice to say that the engineer
couldn't account for the off-air occurance in terms of equipment failure. He
believed that something had to have interrupted the power supply to the
transmitter to trigger a protection circut to take it off-line.
So, from the information from the Lincoln abductee, and the coincidental letter
and off-air event, I've been interested in this case for several years.
Lastly, apparently the first underground school in the country was built in
Artesia, New Mexico, at the height of the cold war. It admittedly is extreme
conjecture on my part, but wouldn't it be interesting if the underground school
was also built so that children could be observed, monitored and studied by an
alien presence? Maybe....maybe not, but the Artesia-Lincoln connection is an
interesting case.
Thanks for any information you may send my way. Again, the case is much more
complex than what I've alluded to here. But perhaps this bit of information
might be enough to cause you to contact me with any relavant information. I
appreciate your interest and input, and ask your forgiveness at the lack of
details here. More will be forthcoming-most probably in an issue of the Journal
of the Fortean Research Center.
I can be reached at 402-421-1701 during the day. Because of budget constraints,
I may not be able to return a tremendous amount of phone calls. Perhaps you can
contact me here through the board.
Again, thanks!
Scott H. Colborn
--
Scott Colborn - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Scott.Colborn@p0.f31.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Linda case
Date: 7 Nov 92 11:12:06 GMT
-=> Quoting David Jacobs to All <=-
DJ> Hold on. Steady. The attacks are beginning to be
DJ> mounted in the Linda case. [...]
David, I'm planning to attend the MUFON meeting (Winterthur Museum,
Copeland Lecture Hall, DE, 11/21) where you'll be speaking. Would it be
possible for us to discuss at that time (afterwards?) some of the items
that I mentioned in that massive 3-parter I sent you a few months ago?
I would also like to discuss with you several ideas, as well as your own
ideas, regarding electronic monitoring and documentation of an abduction
event.
DJ> Budd Hopkins is one of the
DJ> most respected researchers in the history of UFO
DJ> investigations. He deserves to have the benefit of the
DJ> doubt in all attacks until he publishes the complete
DJ> history of the Linda case.
He has certainly earned 'innocent until proven guilty', if not much more
than that otherwise obvious pronouncement.
Thanks, take care.
John.
-
<Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence>
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
--
John Powell - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Spheres and OOBE
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:16:02 GMT
David,
I am curious to find out how many cases you or Hopkins have worked on that involve a sphere or an OOBE event.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
*******************************************************************************
Submissions abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com
Administrative requests abduct-request@scicom.alphacdc.com
FTP archive grind.isca.uiowa.edu:/info/paranet/abduct
Permission to distribute Michael.Corbin@paranet.org
Private mail to Paranet/Fidonet users firstname.lastname@paranet.org
UUCP gateway {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom
********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 79
Wednesday, November 25th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Close Encounter group
Stats
Delaware talk
Spheres and OOBEs
Linda case
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob.Dunn@p0.f31.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Dunn)
Subject: Close Encounter group
Date: 19 Nov 92 05:28:00 GMT
This message was from SCOTT COLBORN to ALL,
originally in conference FIDO UFO
and was forwarded to you by BOB DUNN.
-------------------------
Hello. My name is Scott Colborn, and I'm the Director of the Fortean Research
Center, Lincoln, NE. I've had a special interest in reports of abduction and
contact with regards to the UFO phenomena. About four years ago I founded a
support group in the Lincoln, NE, area for people who had reported a close
encounter experience. This group is on-going and is a "closed group" with
screening of potential members done by myself. Please feel free to let
people know who you may be in conversation with that this group exists.
Secondly, we have developed a very good relationship with several psychologists
and a psychiatrist who have expressed an interest in working with people who
have made claims of close encounter experiences. Our support group works
like many other types of support groups, and it can be as quiet or dynamic as
the members wish.
Again, please feel free to pass this information along to any who might find
it of interest. Thanks for your help. Anyone wishing to communicate their
interest may do so in care of this board, or, by writing me c/o: The Fortean
Research Center, P.O. Box 94627, Lincoln, NE, 68509. I can be reached at
402-421-1701 from 1-7 p.m, Monday-Friday.
Best wishes, Scott Colborn, Director, The Fortean Research Center.
--
Bob Dunn - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bob.Dunn@p0.f31.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jeff.Brewi@p0.f812.n202.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jeff Brewi)
Subject: Stats
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:42:36 GMT
I am curious if there has been a statistical database made on most/all
recorded abductions. I think this would be a valuable tool in studying
prospective abductees if one could cross-reference with other abductees
at a statistical level. I realize there would be numerous topics in the
database, but I think if it were limited to the more common points it
could be useful in some cases.
Also curious about after affects/symptoms...do abductees feel extremely
lethargic a few days after the abduction? Do they have physical signs
such as swollen glands? flu/cold-like symptoms? etc.?
>From what I have read, in most cases(all?), most abductees can tell of
the abduction in 'vivid detail', are there any/many cases that are not
so detailed, and can these 'vague' cases be deemed as an actual
abduction? Are there any cases in which the conscious memory is vague,
but under hypnotic regression the abduction is revealed in detail?
--
Jeff Brewi - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jeff.Brewi@p0.f812.n202.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Delaware talk
Date: 20 Nov 92 06:26:47 GMT
John, I will be glad to talk with you about the Linda case tothe best of my
ability if I have the time after the Delaware MUFON talk. See you there.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Spheres and OOBEs
Date: 20 Nov 92 06:38:32 GMT
Michael, good to talk to you again. I am afraid that I have been somewhat
lax in keeping up with the messages on Paranet so I am not exactly sure to what
you refer when you talk about spheres. From time to time abductees will recount
incidents in which a ball-shaped object will be passed over their body, or
they will discuss spheres that emit light and that they are required to stand
under. I have had a case in which a green sphere appeared to follow an abductee
down a corridor during an abduction incident.
Abductees will also report seeing balls of light in their room seconds
before an abduction. In the same way they will often think that they are having
an out of body experience when in fact they are being floated up and out of
their room. I have even had them "remember" that they could "see" their bodies
still in the bed or chair while they floated up. Investigation revealed that
that was not the case.
Out of Body Experiences are apparently a real phenomenon. It is usually
coupled with extreme stress or trauma (being on an operating table, or lying
on the pavement after having been hit by a truck), or by meditation in which
an out of body experience is desired. When abductees think that they have had
an OBE, it is often unwanted or unexpected. They might be sitting on the couch
with a can of beer in their hands watching David Letterman when suddenly they
begin to have an "out of body experience." Needless to say, this is very
suspicious and when a researcher hears this it is important to be suspicious
about the incident--it might mask something else happening.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Linda case
Date: 20 Nov 92 06:43:44 GMT
Don, Linda's case, in my estimation, is rock solid. This is a multileveled
case involving a series of witnesses to the complex events within it. Budd
Hopkins will have a piece come out in the next MUFON UFO Journal about one of
the witnesses which, I think, will help to alleviate some of the anxiety about
this case.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
*******************************************************************************
Submissions abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 80
Sunday, December 6th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Smoke detectors
Close Encounter group
Stats
Delaware talk
Linda case
Abduction Help
Stats
Close Encounter group
Close Encounter group 1/2
Close Encounter group 2/2
RI Help
9:1012/0
Linda Case
Re: Stats
Linda Case
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: William.Phillips@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (William Phillips)
Subject: Smoke detectors
Date: 26 Nov 92 10:50:00 GMT
Dr. Jacobs,
sa saw on Prodigy today in one of the religion BBS areas, some person
who seemed to think dreams he was having were possibly related to
abductions. The unusual thing is, this person claims everytime he has
such a dream, he awakens to the smoke alarm going off. Type of alarm
was not specified, though the descriptions of the dream seemed not
unrelated to the phenomena as reported by Hopkins, you and others. I
read SECRET LIFE in detail, especially alternative explanations and the
how-to-prevent abductions section. Of course, your conclusion from the
evidence was that abductions are not preventable. But--anecdotal as
the mention on Prodigy was--could there be some kind of linkage?
Putting 2 and 2 together to get 15, could the dreamer be in some kind
of fugue state and influenced by popular UFO reportage AND by some
toxic substance in the air, sensed by the smoke sniffer? Or could
there be some alien atmospheric disturbance (in the blue light, etc.)
which could set off the alarm? Not many facts here, but...
Enjoy your work, especially the rigor. Thanks.
--
William Phillips - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: William.Phillips@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.S..Carter@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael S. Carter)
Subject: Close Encounter group
Date: 29 Nov 92 00:03:00 GMT
Bob,
My name is Michael S. Carter, Investigator for MOFON Oklahoma and
editor of the OK MUFONews. I have an abductee visiting from Rhode
Island who was involved in a multiple witness abduction as a child
in 1965. Others of the group have undergone regress and therapy for
the abduction but this one person has not and is having a terrible
time handling the stresses of possible ongoing scenarios. Do you
know of anyone in this area that is doing regression/therapy work
with whom I could put her in contact? They must be caring,
compassionate and knowlegeable of the abduction phenomenon. My
visitor lives alone and has no transportation. Perhaps someone might
be interested enough to meet her close or travel a short distance to
their home. I/d appreciate any assistance you could provide. As an
abductee myself, I well know how it feels to be utterly alone with
no one to express yourself to. Thanks much.
--
Michael S. Carter - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.S..Carter@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Carter@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Carter)
Subject: Stats
Date: 29 Nov 92 21:50:00 GMT
Hi Jeff.
In response to whether there is a statistical database of abduction
stories, I can tell you that Budd Hopkins adn David M. Jacobs are
putting together a compendium of as many abduction case reports and
their specifics as they can get their hands on. They have made an
open request of MUFON to supply them with whatever they can. You're
right, this should go a long way in consolidating into one source
accounts which can then be studied in relation to all other reports
on file. As an abductee myself, I'm anxious for this work to be
completed.
About abductee stories. There many cases where abductees DO have
at least partial conscious recall--some more than others. I for one
did have at least partial recall. However, hypnotic regression
uncovered much more than the remembered parts. I believe this to be
the norm in most cases. Talk to you soon. Michael S. Carter OK MUFON I
--
Michael Carter - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Carter@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.S..Carter@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael S. Carter)
Subject: Delaware talk
Date: 29 Nov 92 21:58:01 GMT
Mr. Jacobs,
I am an investigator for Oklahoma MUFON and the editor of the OK
MUFON NEws. I have a person visiting from Rhode Island who was part
of a multiple witness abduction back in 1965. Others of the group
have had their cases investigated and have undergone therapy and
regression about the event. The Rhode Islander has found no one in
her area that she can turn to, however. She has contacted the MUFON
SSD in the area but is not comfortable with him. SHe seems to be
having quite a bad time of coping with the possibility of ongoing
abductions since that time. Although she has not made a conscious
decision as to the cause of the several events in question, she is
seeking help in dealing with them--A lot of anxiety of being alone
and trouble sleeping. Can you direct me to a competent mental health
professional who would be interested in taking on such a case. They
should be located in or near Providence Rhode Island. I and (Cheryl)
would be eternally grateful. As an abductee myself, I am quite aware
of the isolation and frustration of not having someone to speak
with. Thanks much.
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen)
Subject: Linda case
Date: 30 Nov 92 00:47:00 GMT
DJ> Don, Linda's case, in my estimation, is rock solid.
DJ> This is a multileveled case involving a series of
DJ> witnesses to the complex events within it. Budd Hopkins
DJ> will have a piece come out in the next MUFON UFO Journal
DJ> about one of the witnesses which, I think, will help to
DJ> alleviate some of the anxiety about this case.
Thanks for the response David..sorry about the delay in answering.
I have serious questions as to Hopkin's data on the case and whether
or not it can be independently verified. Has he shown you anything
that would "hold up in court" ?
A recent buzz is that "Dan" (one of the security officers) is no where
to be found. If this case is so rock solid as we've been led to believe
then WHY does it take some one like a George Hansen to get people asking
hard questions? I noted that Jerome Clark answered _none_ of Hansen's
questions but was content instead to attack Hansen personally. That's
not the mark of a serious professional (IMHO) and I must question
aspects of this case that just don't seem to add up and I'm forced
to continue asking, "Where's the beef" ?
Don
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Carter@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Carter)
Subject: Abduction Help
Date: 2 Dec 92 02:31:00 GMT
Dr. JAcobs,
I am a MUFON Investigator for the state of OK and I am searching desperately
to find a qualified mental health professional in the Rhode Island Area for a
young woman who was involved in a multiple witness abduction scenario in 1965.
Since then several others in the group have sought help and have had this
case documented. At least some of them have had ongoing event. This particular
person (Cheryl) can find no one in her part of the country in which to confide
in and receive therapy. She is having much trouble sleeping and having
anxieties about being alone. She most probably has had ongoing abduction
events. Can you help in referring Cheryl and I to a properly qualified
researcher who is willing to take on a case such as this? We'd appreciate any
advice or contact that you could give
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Scott.Colborn@p0.f31.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Scott Colborn)
Subject: Stats
Date: 2 Dec 92 03:47:53 GMT
Hello Jeff. In response to your questions regarding the abduction mystery,
you may wish to read the Journal of the Fortean Research Center (The Fortean
Research Center, P.O. Box 94627, Lincoln, NE, 68509, $3.50 each plus $1.25
postage), specifically Volume 5, Numbers 1 & 2. In these Journals are a
number of articles written by myself and others on the specifics and
generalities of abduction and close encounter reports. In these articles
written by myself, I argue that it's not just one item, instance, or "strange
occurance" that labels something as an "abduction." Rather, one must make an
evaluation based on a number of factors. As we begin to recognize specific
factors that seem to occur in a number of abduction and contact reports, we
can begin to establish criteria for what is and what is not an abduction or
contact. At the same time, we must strive to remain "open" to data that
doesn't seem to fit individual researchers' points-of-view or reject a report
because it hasn't occured in other reports. Only by looking at each specific
case, and the information within each report, can we begin to understand what
the abduction experience really is. And just as importantly, researchers must
also look at how the person making the report has been impacted, changed, or
affected by the experience(s).
In closing, you may wish to read Dr. Jacob's book among others as a good source
of information on the abduction and contact issue.
Best wishes, Scott Colborn, Director, The Fortean Research Center.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Scott.Colborn@p0.f31.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Scott Colborn)
Subject: Close Encounter group
Date: 2 Dec 92 03:56:23 GMT
Hello Michael. Just read your message to my friend and colleague Bob Dunn
regarding your interest in a therapist for a friend desiring regression work.
As I'm not sure of what "locale" you are interested in, I'll just say that we
have an excellent pschologist in the Lincoln, NE, area who is interested in
close encounters. Additionally, we have a psychiatrist who can provide
medical assistance. Should you be interested in them, please contact me care
of the board, or call 402-421-1701, 1-7 pm, Monday-Friday. If it's the
Oklahoma area you are looking in (for a therapist), I'm sure that Jean Waller
can help you "down there."
Best wishes, Scott Colborn, Director, The Fortean Research Center.
P.S...saw part of the OU/NE football game...looked a lot closer than the final
score. OU will be back next year, I'm sure.
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob.Dunn@p0.f31.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Dunn)
Subject: Close Encounter group 1/2
Date: 2 Dec 92 07:10:00 GMT
MSC>. Do you know of anyone in this area that is doing regression/therapy work
MSC>with whom I could put her in contact? They must be caring, compassionate
Hi Michael, I found this list of therapists currently working with
abductees on another network. I hope it will be of some help for you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following list was taken (without permission but strictly in the
non-commercial interest of promoting expedited theraputic intervention)
from the book titled Encounters: A Psychologist Reveals Evidence of
Contact With Extraterrestrials, Edith Fiore, Ph.D., (c) 1989 Edith
Fiore, Ph.D. - Published by Doubleday - a Division of Bantam Doubleday
Dell Publishing Group, Inc., 666 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10103.
ISBN: 0-385-26236-1
Hypnotherapists Working With Abductees/Contactees (pg. 339 - Appendix)
Aphrodite Clamar, Ph.D.
30 E. 60th St.,
Suite 1107
New York, NY 10022
(212) 988-8042
Beverly J. Carter
4491 South Yates
Denver, CO 80236
(303) 794-7626
Ann Druffel
257 Sycamore Glen
Pasadena, CA 91105
(213) 256-8655
Stephen Field, Pd.D.
800 Oak Grove,
Suite 207
Menlo Park, CA 94025
(415) 325-4678
Edith Fiore, Ph.D.
20688 Fourth St.,
Saratoga, CA 95070
(408) 867-1100
Josie Hadley
2443 Ash St.,
Suite D
Pala Alto, CA 94306
(415) 321-6419
Richard Haines, Ph.D.
PO Box 880
Los Altos, CA 94023-0880
Tisha Hallet
450 San Antonio Rd.,
Suite 27
Palo Alto, CA 94036
(415) 857-0638
James Harder, Ph.D.
2800 Hilgard St.
Berkeley, CA 94709
(415) 848-6043
Barbara Levy, Ph.D.
317 Eureka St.
San Francisco, CA 94114
(415) 826-2250
(415) 751-3971
Linda Marie Martin
152 Olive Springs Rd.
Soquel, CA 95073
(408) 479-3493
Jeffrey Mishlove, Ph.D.
48 St. Francis La.
San Rafael, CA 94901
(415) 456-2532
Raymond Moody, M.D.
205 Tanner St.
Carrolton, GA 30117
(404) 834-6393
Sharon Moss, Ph.D.
2947 Eastmoreland
Oregon, OH 43616
(419) 691-4926
Jean Mundy, Ph.D
33 Windward
East Hampton, NY 11937
(516) 267-8896
and
105 West 13th St.
New York, NY 10011
(212) 741-1278
June Parnell, Ph.D.
2219 Rainbow Ave.,
Laramie, WY 82070
(307) 742-3394
Alice Rose, Ph.D.
4651 Roswell Rd.,
Suite I-8013
Atlanta, GA 30342
(404) 255-7051
Patricia Shaw, Ph.D.
225 S. Meramec Ave.,
Suite 506
St. Louis, MO 63105
(314) 863-3588
Richard Sigismund
1557 9th St.,
Boulder, CO 80302
(303) 447-9170
June Steiner
987 University Ave.,
Suite 6
Los Gatos, CA 95030
(408) 395-9209
Jo Stone, MFCC
PO Box 2828
Los Angeles, CA 90078
Sue Street, Ph.D.
University of South Florida
St. Petersburg Campus
140 7th. Ave. South
St. Petersburg, FL 33701
(813) 893-9129
Keith Thompson
PO Box 5055
Mill Valley, CA 94942
(415) 388-9008
>>> Continued to next message
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob.Dunn@p0.f31.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Dunn)
Subject: Close Encounter group 2/2
Date: 2 Dec 92 07:10:00 GMT
>>> Continued from previous message
Mary Ellen Trahan, Ph.D.
205 Tanner St.
Carrolloton, GA 30117
(404) 834-6393
Norma Triggs
10 Willow Creek
Richardson, TX 75080
Thomas J. Zinser, Ed.D.
2041 Raybrook SE
Grand Rapids, MI 49506
(616) 957-3168
============= End of List =======================
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: RI Help
Date: 3 Dec 92 08:10:46 GMT
I'm sorry to say that I do not know of anyone in the Providence area. The
best I can do right now is to refer her to John Mack at Harvard Medical School,
or Susan Fox in Boston. The problem is that we simply do not have enough people
around the country who are able to do this type of work. Budd Hopkins and I are
trying to alleviate the situation by holding workshops for mental health
professionals to educate them about the properties of the abduction phenomenon,
hypnosis of abductees, and even therapeutic techniques for abductees. So far we
have conducted two workshops, one in New York, and one in Los Angeles. Our next
will either be in Atlanta or Texas. It's going to take a while but we hope to
have at least one qualified individual in each major city. I understand the
pressure that she must be under and I sympathize with her problem. I run across
these situations on a daily basis. I feel frustrated and powerless. Perhaps
there is some way that she can get to Mack or Fox. If I do find anyone I will
alert you immediately. In the meantime, hold on.
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: 9:1012/0
Date: 3 Dec 92 08:12:32 GMT
Mike, I'll be glad to help out in any way I can.
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Linda Case
Date: 3 Dec 92 08:31:22 GMT
The best that I can say is that when Budd completes his ongoing investigation
of this complex and extraordinarily important case you will all be able to
judge for yourselves whether Hansen has asked hard questions. Hold tight. Give
Budd the benefit of the doubt. Hansen knows very little about this case.
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jeff.Brewi@p0.f812.n202.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jeff Brewi)
Subject: Re: Stats
Date: 3 Dec 92 14:50:56 GMT
MC> at least partial conscious recall--some more than others. I for one
MC> did have at least partial recall. However, hypnotic regression
MC> uncovered much more than the remembered parts. I believe this to be
MC> the norm in most cases. Talk to you soon. Michael S. Carter OK MUFON I
On the parts that you could consciously recall, were those parts in
great detail, or were they vague, sort of dreamlike, and if the
conscious recall was vague, did the hypnotic regression bring those
parts out with greater detail?
Thanks for your response including that you've been abducted and had
partial recall, trying to figure out if people who have some recall,
but it is vague, if it is valid.
Jeff
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Linda Case
Date: 5 Dec 92 08:33:00 GMT
In response to Don Allen's inquiry about the Linda Napolitano
case, Dr. Jacobs replied as follows:
+ The best that I can say is that when Budd completes his
+ ongoing investigation of this complex and extraordinarily
+ important case you will all be able to judge for
+ yourselves whether Hansen has asked hard questions. Hold
+ tight. Give Budd the benefit of the doubt. Hansen knows
+ very little about this case.
Prof. Jacobs:
Hansen's "hard questions" (read that: Hard *ON*) aside,
some good questions have been raised about this case. I'm just
wondering whether "Hold tight" means: "Spend $20 on the book
before you make up your mind", (as in the Ed Walters case). Can
we expect an article by Budd in some "free" venue (such as the
_IUR_ or _MUFON UFO Journal_) or does "open mindedness" require a
book purchase (again)?
-- John
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*******************************************************************************
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 81
Monday, December 14th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Spheres and OOBEs
Linda case
Linda Case
Re: Stats
Imaginary or Real?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Spheres and OOBEs
Date: 6 Dec 92 23:33:00 GMT
DJ> Abductees will also report seeing balls of light in their room seconds
DJ>before an abduction. In the same way they will often think that they are
DJ>having an out of body experience when in fact they are being floated up and
DJ>out of their room. I have even had them "remember" that they could "see"
DJ>their bodies still in the bed or chair while they floated up. Investigation
DJ>revealed that that was not the case.
Along those lines, we have what may be an important case here in Scottsdale -
important because we believe it to be a hoax. More precisely, we are
probably dealing with a well-intentioned but deranged mind.
This gentleman called our hotline to report that an object had landed and
left a trace in his front yard. We investigated, and during our interview he
reported all manner of mysterious happenings in his past, from a consciously
remembered abduction by a Moses-like being to spheres floating around his
room to poltergeist phenomena. Over the course of a few interviews it became
apparent that he believed himself to be psychic, and at one point predicted
that "they" would appear at a given place in Arizona on a certain Saturday,
and that we were welcome to drive up with him and take a look. We sent one
of our local members up with him, but nothing happened.
At one point this individual called us and told us that two men had stopped
by his house to look at the landing trace (a small circular patch of
retarded grass growth - samples on their way to CUFOS). He said they were
dressed "like Mormons" (conservative shirt and tie), and that they were
driving a black Ford Taurus. He went outside to ask them for ID, and when
they refused, he went in for his gun. When he came back out, they were gone.
Last week, he told us another man had come to gawk at the circle, and that
he called the police on him. The police arrived, talked to the man for a few
minutes, then came to the witness' door and told him it was alright, the
man was just a surveyor. A check with Scottsdale police shows no record of
a call from our witness on that morning. Ray Maurer, state director of
MUFON, performed the check with the police, and is an expert on police
computer dispatch systems. He states there is little likelihood that such a
call could be erased from the system. When he called the witness again and
asked him to step through the incident, the story changed so that the
policeman left without speaking to our witness. When confronted with this,
the witness hemmed and hawed, and no longer wished to talk about the
incident.
It is our belief, from the gentle nature of the witness and his seeming
desire for attention, that we have an example of someone who is lying about
his UFO experiences for reasons other than financial gain. We are handing
his case over to a qualified psychologist, but I believe it is important to
study such cases in order to get a feel for the "psychology of fabrication,"
so that we may better recognize it in other cases.
It is signficant to note that this individual was hypnotized and regressed
to a half-remembered incident in his childhood, where his mother said he
disappeared for a few hours. The regression brought out contact with
entities, but Ray Maurer, who performed the regression, did not recognize
them from any other accounts. The entire incident did not "map" with
anything in the investigator's experience. This by itself is not grounds for
dismissing the case, obviously, but coupled with his other erratic behavior,
it is of interest and may impact on the question of how we distinguish
between "true" abductions and false memories or confabulation.
A full report of this case is in the works. Again, I feel it is just as
important to follow through on cases of this nature as it is to follow up on
those we suspect are "genuine."
Jim
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Linda case
Date: 7 Dec 92 07:25:50 GMT
John,
Unfortunately, Budd does not have a book contract at the present time but
he is busy trying to put the enormous complexity of the case into logical order
in order to publish it. This is a case that deserves a book to do it justice
and I hope that he eventually does publish it. He is coming out with an
article in the next (?) MUFON UFO JOURNAL on one of the witnesses to the event.
After that, I hope that he can publish the material as a book. Budd has spent
nearly two years researching this case. The amount of time and energy he has
put into it have been enormous. As all serious UFO researchers know, you do
not go into this line of endeavor to get rich.
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Don.Allen@p1.f81.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen)
Subject: Linda Case
Date: 8 Dec 92 08:13:21 GMT
+ The best that I can say is that when Budd completes his ongoing
+ investigation of this complex and extraordinarily important case you
+ will all be able to judge for yourselves whether Hansen has asked
+ hard questions. Hold tight. Give Budd the benefit of the doubt.
+ Hansen knows very little about this case.
Ok, and thanks for the response.
Don
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Carter@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Carter)
Subject: Re: Stats
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:49:00 GMT
Hi Jeff,
Sorry for the delay in responding. In answer to your question about
my conscious recall--it was somewhat detailed in certain parts and
more vague in others. During the encounter I felt that I did not
have full control over my body and felt somewhat groggy as if
drugged or controlled in some way. During hypnosis, most memories
and recall were in somewhat more vivid detail as I relivved the
events. Certainly the events were expounded upon under hypnosis as
blank spots were filled in that I had not recalled conscouisly. Some
of these memories turned out to be the kind that have never been
published in books or mags that researchers keep back as checks
against possilbe fabrication. Thanks for your interest.
Michael S. Carter
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jeff.Brewi@p0.f812.n202.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jeff Brewi)
Subject: Imaginary or Real?
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:35:06 GMT
I have been reading a book called _The Evidence For ALien ABductions_
by John Rimmer C. 1984...
I would like to summarize and\or quote an experiment and the results.
The experiment was conducted by Alvin Lawson and William McCall.
The concept was to be able to distinguish the abduction info given
during hypnotic regression between a real abduction and a hoax(the
reason for the hoax for this particular experiment was irrelevent).
They wanted a database of info that could distinguish real data from
imaginary data.
"They began by locating a number of people who would be willing to
participate in their experiments, but who knew little or nothing about
UFOs - possibly a rather difficult task in Southern California where
they operated...These...subjects were then 'led into' a UFO abduction
scenario by means of a carefully designed series of leading questions,
which suggested the bare outlines of the abduction but left the subject
free to fill in the details. These details would come...from the
witnesses' own imaginations. They would then be able to compare the
imaginary abductions with th real events, and by a comparison of the
differences between the two, would be able to gain valuable clues to
use when trying to sort out any hoaxes in the cases that came to them
as UFO researchers."
One interjection here- how did they know that their supposed known- the
so-called 'real' abductions were in fact, real abductions? Not saying
the supposed real were not real, but no comment in the text
mentioned this point. I took the assumption that their real database
were witnesses who were not led into the abduction or prior cases,
possibly by other researchers.
"...But the experiments went spectacularly wrong...what happened was
that the 'imaginary' stories were quite indistinguishable from the
'real' experiences, even down to tiny details..."
The text then goes further into the stereotyped abductee, some of the
stories the witnesses gave, etc...until the text leads into the
researchers conclusion, "Birth Trauma Hypothesis."
The point here is it is very difficult to distinguish between an actual
abduction(if in fact they do occur) and the imagination.
Possibly physical evidence(scarring etc...), but then who can prove
an alien lifeform is doing the abduction? Much can be inferred into a
mind through a prior programming which can come out in a later
regression.
I believe little to no headway has been made into the proof of alien
abductions, other than stories told by potential abductees, which could
be imagination or from other programming.
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 82
Monday, December 28th 1992
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Delaware talk
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Delaware talk
Date: 22 Dec 92 11:17:02 GMT
-=> Quoting David Jacobs to John Powell <=-
DJ> John, I will be glad to talk with you about the Linda
DJ> case tothe best of my ability if I have the time after the
DJ> Delaware MUFON talk. See you there.
You didn't, I wasn't; sometimes it happens that way... <grin>
It really isn't the Linda case that I was interested in though. On
another net we've been discussing/brainstorming/wish-listing what it
would take to bring Abduction out of the closet (so to speak). During
that process we more or less settled on two important items. The first
was that it is breaking out of the closet sort of on its own, in more
ways than one, partly due to media popularity and certainly in part due
to the work of you and others (Hopkins, etc.) coupled with the data
implied by the Roper poll.
With that first item tending to dominate the forefront of the thinking
we then realized that there might very well be well-intentioned and
well-meaning folks out there somewhere who might try to use hard science
in their endeavors... And they might try to do that more or less on
their own.
So, we have pretty much decided on developing a reference/source
document, a standalone document, that could be used by virtually any
literate professional wishing to push the envelope regarding the
hard-data side of the issue.
Our document will look something (only slightly) like this:
Introduction
Abduction History/Anthology
The Abduction Surveillance Project
...
Project Team Selection...
Data Acquisition Methods...
Data Acquisition Equipment...
Data Acquisition Equipment Sources...
...
Please note I _am not_ requesting a journalistic response from you
regarding general content or organization of the formal document nor am
I requesting overview comments. (However, please feel free to provide
them if you think they will contribute to the objectives as stated.)
Let me couch my request as follows: On the one hand we have folks,
abductees or otherwise (yourself included) who are within a hair certain
that alien beings from some other place are arriving here in spaceships
and they are abducting humans for the purpose of some sort of genetic
experimentation. (And this may very well be exactly what is
happenning.) On the other hand we have that Toastmaster of Titilation,
the Philster Himself, the Klassmiester, who wouldn't acknowledge an
implant if he passed one. Somewhere inbetween, and much closer to the
other hand, are about 99% of the scientific community and about 90% of
the general population. How do we change that?
We think we change that situation by wiring an Abductee, and their
living quarters, with just about every piece of gear we can get. We are
assuming that we have unlimited funding, the so-called Grand Design, and
then we plan to incrementally reduce the scope of the project to the
point just prior to which the data acquired is worthless. We plan to
document each version of the Design, (including specific equipment
requirements, sources of acquisition by geographic location,
installation instructions, etc.), so that (as anticipated) someone out
there can pick this source document off the shelf and actually begin the
process of discrete scientific monitoring with some hope of credibility.
Here are my specific requests of you:
1 - We have decided and affirmed that the Project Team should be
headed by a professional psychiatrist who will directly and
exclusively interface with the Abductee. Do you agree with this
decision Yes/No, and why?
2 - We have decided and affirmed that a pre-teen Abductee,
(strictly within the scope of #1 above), is the best possible
choice as the Subject of the Project. Do you agree with this
decision Yes/No, and why?
3 - What is _the_ most important bit of hard data that you would
like to have? (Videotape, photograph, radar, anomolous magnetic
field in bedroom, anomolous microwave field in bedroon,
physically attached transponder on Abductee registering high
altitude...???)
I thank you in advance for wading through this. We might be completely
off target (I don't think we are) but I think there could very well be a
bunch of folks (in the making) who are competent enough to want to do
something but who just need a reference document to point the way...
Thanks, take care.
John.
-
<Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence>
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 83
Thursday, January 7th 1993
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Re: Abduction Digest 81
Delaware Talk
False abductees
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: uu3.psi.com!david
Subject: Re: Abduction Digest 81
Date: 29 Dec 92 03:24:16 GMT
From: David L Jarvis <david@dynamix.com>
Directed to David Jacobs:
Greetings David ... I'd like to comment on a few replies you've posted to
other individuals ... I'll state my intentions up front, intelligent
debate, period ... I do consider myself a skeptic, but in the true nature
of the word I am very open-minded and do not allow the beliefs/values of
others fog my analysis (scientists telling us all 'it isn't possible' etc)
So with that ...
+ From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
+ Subject: Linda case
+ Date: 7 Dec 92 07:25:50 GMT
+
+ John,
+ Unfortunately, Budd does not have a book contract at the present time but he
+ is busy trying to put the enormous complexity of the case into logical order
+ in order to publish it. This is a case that deserves a book to do it justice
+ and I hope that he eventually does publish it. He is coming out with an
Stand on the other side of that statement, say, from the perspective of
someone not involved in the field other than as a consumer (but someone who
is trying to research and find some answers).
Do you hear how that sounds??? 'This case deserves a book ...'
Sure it does, but is that the motive for keeping quiet about it all?
Why is it the only way someone like me gets to learn anything about this
field called UFOlogy is by buying your books? (or subscribing to any one
of the numerous magazines/journals, one of which you list below)
+ article in the next (?) MUFON UFO JOURNAL on one of the witnesses to the event.
+ After that, I hope that he can publish the material as a book. Budd has spent
+ nearly two years researching this case. The amount of time and energy he has
+ put into it have been enormous. As all serious UFO researchers know, you do
+ not go into this line of endeavor to get rich.
Really now? So, publishing books, making the rounds as guest speaker for
all the UFO conferences, special-guest tv appearances, lectures, magazine
articles ... all that, is for what? If it *wasn't* to make money, then why
won't Budd come out public (read: free) with all the information about this
case? Why wait to publish a book about it?
Again, from the 'consumer' point of view (at least from one who's even
minutely aware), it looks pretty obvious.
On another topic, I've always wanted to ask you and Budd a question:
Do you perform hypnosis/regression on possible abductees yourselves?
I understand that Budd is an artist/sculptor (?) and you are a History
professor, so my obvious question was, what qualifications do either of you
have to not only extract and extrapolate, but also to interpret the
information contained in the minds of your subject?
(if I remember my reading of Hopkins 'Intruders' he indicated he
performed hypnosis on subjects himself)
Best Regards,
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
# David L. Jarvis SOFTWARE / #
# david@dynamix.com / DYNAMIX #
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Anson.Kennedy@p0.f25.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Anson Kennedy)
Subject: Delaware Talk
Date: 30 Dec 92 05:57:00 GMT
[This is also to David Jacobs.]
Regarding the "wiring" of abductees in order to obtain hard data of an
abduction:
I've seen that David Jacobs (and others) have noted that whenever monitoring
equipment is used on abductees, the abductions stop. Then, when the equipment
is removed (or turned off, or malfunctions - for whatever reason) the
abductions start up again. I can think of two explanations for this phenomenon:
The (alleged) aliens are aware of the monitoring attempts and do not abduct
people when they could be "caught in the act;" or the abductees monitored are
not actually being abducted, that is their abductions are psychological
manifestations (fantasy-proneness or whatever).
First, if you (or anyone else) can think of any other possibilities, I'd be
interested in hearing them.
Second, I have a suggestion which may help eliminate or confirm the second
possibility (that the abductions in question are psychological). Has any
attempt been made to monitor an abductee without his (or her) knowledge, i.e.
with "hidden cameras?" One approach *might* be to have two cameras, one the
abductee knows about and one of which he is unaware. Then the first camera can
be disconnected, with the abductee's knowledge (and with some plausible
pretense), and the second one left active. If he then reports an abduction
which the second camera did not record, then it would seem safe to state that
the event was fantasy. If, on the other hand, he reports an abduction and it
*is* recorded, then that would be the ever-so-elusive proof. If, on the third
hand :-) , he reports no abduction, then the test is inconclusive.
The main problem I have with this expriment is the idea of deceiving the
subject. However, I can think of no easy way of settling the issue of
monitoring otherwise.
Comments?
--- Anson
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: False abductees
Date: 30 Dec 92 08:09:43 GMT
Jim, sorry for the delay in ansering your Dec. 6, messsage. I fully agree
that we need to know more about those people who claim to be abductees and who
are not. You will be doing us all an important service by publishing your
material about this case. We have to learn to separate the wheat from the
chaff by rigorous methods. Congratulations on the excellent leg work that
you have put forward for your case!
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 84
Monday, February 1st 1993
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Abduction Investigation (1)
Abduction Investigation (2)
Ideas...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Investigation (1)
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:51:01 GMT
The following is a brief biographical profile of a possible
abduction case I have been investigating. It was composed by the
percipient. Please let me know what you think of this material. (sw)
_________________________________________________________________
*** NOTE *** Personal names have been deleted in this public echo
_________________________________________________________________
FAMILY HISTORY:
Percipient: Female, age 35, (Name Deleted) born 2/9/56 in Newport Beach,
CA - during a sizable earthquake.
Mother: (Name Deleted) Born 7/29/28 (deceased 11/14/82). Of English
and Creek Indian (Muskogee Nation) ancestry (though not verifiable;
suspect mother's father bought ancestry papers to cover Indian
roots). History of diabetes, heart disease, cancer in family. Died
from complications of diabetes. Was an educator, painter, and
numerologist.
Father: (Name Deleted) Born 12/9/09. Still living - residing in
nursing home, suffering from advanced Parkinson's disease. Of
Norwegian ancestry, first person in his family to marry out of his
nationality in 1000 years. History of diabetes, and neurological
diseases in family. Was a painter, educator and theosophist.
Siblings: Half sister from father's previous marriage - born 1/18/46
Half brother from father's previous marriage - born 6/6/47
Brother - born 11/14/58
Sister - born 2/10/60
Sister - born 8/21/64; deceased - died from neuroblastoma (Wilm's Tumor)
_________________________________________________________________
MEDICAL HISTORY:
1) Complications from chicken pox at 6 months, went to lungs;
caused weak lungs - later developing into respiratory condition.
Hospitalized several times as a child with bronchial pneumonia.
2) Menses at age 10
3) Scarlet fever at age 12
4) Hospitalized with mysterious abdominal distension and pain at age 16
5) Mysterious bleeding (bled for a month) at age 18
6) "Hysterical" episode at age 19. Found outside at night. Thought
a man was trying to cut out my baby (wasn't pregnant).
Hospitalized, given elavil and tranxene.
7) Pelvic inflammatory disease at age 20
8) Persistent allergies at all ages
9) Chronic nose bleeds and bleeding from ears (hemorrhaged both
eardrums at age 16).
10) Broken back at age 23
11) Unexplained tumors at age 23
12) Hospitalizes for mysterious tumors, abdominal distension and
pain, unusual blood count - doctors thought I had cancer twice that
year - age 24
13) Malaria at age 25
14) Recurring tumors at age 26
15) Pelvic inflammatory disease twice at age 27. Miscarriage.
16) Diagnosed with Candida albicans and Hypothyroidism at age 29.
17) Miscarriage at age 32
18) Diagnosed with diabetes at age 33
19) Complete hysterectomy at age 34
_________________________________________________________________
SEXUAL ABUSE:
1) Age 5: Molested by a neighbor boy.
2) Age 9: Molested by an elderly man who was a neighbor.
3) Age 11: Molested by a son of friends of the family.
4) Age 14: Forced seduction by a psychologist - was able to escape.
5) Age 22: Raped, drugged and held captive for 3 days by a
psychiatrist. Was not his patient. Didn't report it.
<continued in next message> --------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Investigation (2)
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:52:02 GMT
......................<continued from previous message>
EXPERIENCES:
1) Night terror dreams since infancy
2) Age 3: Began playing with "light beings". Said that they were
"Jesus and his friends". Beings that emanated great amounts of
light (as a child, equated them with Italian holy pictures). My
parents let me roam on our property, unsupervised for hours.
3) Age 3: Became extremely afraid in the evening hours. Would
refuse to go to bed because I felt that there were people outside
my window waiting to take me away. I began bringing large cardboard
boxes into my room, so that I could hide from them. Sometimes the
fear would extend into the daylight hours. One day, I became lost
because I crawled into the crawlspace of our large two story
farmhouse, to escape "them". My parents were frantic! My father
finally rescued me from the bowels of the house, after a great
amount of the day had passed.
4) Age 4: Began awaking at night expecting to find spiders in my
bed. I became transfixed by them - to the point that my father
found me playing in a black widow's nest.
5) Age 6: Declared to an entire family gathering of 300, that I
would never have children. The same night, I saw a large ball of
light streak across the sky. My parents also saw it. They said:
"Never mind, it must be Santa Claus".
6) Age 8: Saw a large "angel" floating at eye level with me (I
slept on the top bunk of a bunk-bed) in the early morning hours.
I bound out of bed to tell my mother that St. Michael had just
visited me. She humored me...
7) Age 11: I was playing in a deserted farmhouse in Tennessee, with
a girlfriend - when we both suddenly realized we were in the middle
of a huge field of yellow flowers. It was strange. We hadn't
noticed it before (we had been playing for quite some time - and
the farmhouse had no doors or windows, so visually, it would be
difficult to miss). We became almost "drugged" with the discovery
and I said: "Every time I'm sad, I'll remember this field, for as
long as I live".
8) From 1976 to 1980, I did a lot of travelling throughout Northern
New Mexico. Every time I passed through Abique, Chama, or Questa
areas, I would feel extremely uncomfortable. I was strangely shaken
by these places, and every time I returned home I would turn on the
radio and hear reports of cattle mutilations in those same places,
at the same times...
9) Middle of October, 1980: I returned home late, after spending an
evening with friends (I had one drink and a puff on a joint, much
earlier, with little or no effect). I put my key in the lock and
was stunned by a powerful light. I looked to my right and saw an
immense ship, that covered my entire field of vision. I got a
sudden, but profound look at it! The next thing I remember is being
crouched in the corner of my portal, completely naked (but oddly
warm). I looked up to see all my clothes neatly folded and stacked
by the door, and the key still in the lock. I quickly gathered my
things, went inside, and noticed the clock. I was shocked to
discover 6 missing hours. I slipped into bed. The next thing I
remember was a deep voice in my head saying: "We are all ONE". The
next morning I told a couple of friends. They didn't believe me,
but begged me not to report it. We turned on the radio, just as the
disc jockey was announcing that there were 8 sightings of a UFO the
night before. I remained silent.
10) June 1986: My husband and I were caught in a large fog bank in
Arkansas. Upon emerging from it (we were driving a pick-up truck
and hauling a utility trailer), we saw a large day-glow green ball
fly across the sky, landing in a clump of trees to our right. The
next thing we remember is a coyote staring at us from the road,
with day-glow green eyes - the exact color of the flying ball. We
were not wearing watches and the truck did not have a clock. We
were very shaken, and ended up driving all night, to get the hell
out of Arkansas!
11) Santa Fe, NM, September 1988: Watching television one evening
when out of the corner of my eye, I saw a large, bright, purple
ball streak across the sky. Curious, I stood to catch a better look
at it. I saw it land beside the prison (a few miles away as the
crow flies). When it landed, it illuminated the entire sky for
about 2 seconds. Later that night, I bolted to a sitting position,
in bed. I felt that something was wrong with the house - I jumped
out of bed to discover that the front door was wide open. When I
awoke, my pillow case had blood on it. Both my husband and I were
having a lot of nosebleeds at that time. My ears were also bleeding
and I had strange marks on my body that I went to the doctor about.
She's ruled out fungus - she didn't know what it was. It was a
triangle, in the middle of a circle.
12) Grand Junction, CO, August 1989: I awoke in my motel room (we
were on holiday) to find two beings on top of the table, directly
in front of me. I pinched myself to make sure that I was awake.
Indeed I was! I walked over to them. I reached up to touch one of
them. The next thing I remember I was lying in bed, in the morning.
13) Newport, OR, Sunday, 12:30 A.M. - 3:24 A.M., 11/18/90: I was
watching Saturday Night Live. Paul Simon was on, I noticed the
time. I was alert and very much awake, but all of a sudden I was in
a dream with a friend and two men in black suits, escorting us to
a large silver disc. The next thing I remember was sitting back on
my couch, watching a show on UFOs.
14) Newport, OR, Saturday, 2 A.M. - 2:51 A.M., 12/1/90: I was just
getting into bed, when I noticed a strange, bright green line,
glowing above the curtains in the bedroom. I stood up and walked
over to it to investigate. I felt a "presence" in back of me. I
turned around and saw in the hallway mirror, a shadow about 3 feet
tall and whitish. I made a bolt, trying to catch it. The next thing
I know, I'm sitting up in bed looking at the clock.
_________________________________________________________________
COMMENTS: (percipient's)
After all these years of strange occurrences, my curiosity is
keener than ever, I've gone through stages of denial and complete
doubt. I've mentally investigated many possibilities that might be
causing such happenings - but, I am constantly haunted by dreams,
curious feelings (on all levels) and strange marks on my body - not
to mention chronic ailments of unknown origin. I'm not only
concerned about my experiences and their ramifications, but my
husbands role and safety through all this. I have been drug and
alcohol free for almost 8 years, and don't partake in caffeine or
tobacco either. My husband is equally strict with himself.
<EOF>
Comments may be posted to this conference or
via netmail @ 1:115/887 --Sheldon---
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Ideas...
Date: 1 Feb 93 09:51:02 GMT
As we all know science is about observation and measurement. The UFO phenomenon
displays physical characteristics which can be measured and instrumented,
however as far as I know, very little has been done with this. I recall Project
Starlight which was conducted under Ray Stanford and another study done in
Missouri through a university which Roger Black has found some information
about. As far as the abduction phenomenon goes, David Jacobs has stated that
at times an attempt has been made to videotape an abduction in progress, but
very little has occurred to show this in progress. I also noted that at times
some of the victims reported a fluid left behind but it often disappeared or
washed off and was not retrieved.
However, there is another aspect of this that has not been addressed to
anyone's satisfaction, although we have heard numerous reports coming forth
alleging that a breakthrough might be on the horizon. That is the reported
incidence of implants. What has happened with this aspect? Do we have any
reliable reports or data indicating what an implant actually is? Who has been
conducting this research?
Finally, if we wanted to instrument and measure the phenomenon, what would we
look for and how would we go about measuring it?
Mike
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 85
Thursday, February 4th 1993
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Ideas...
Abduction Investigation (2)
Re: Abduction Digest 81
Delaware Talk
Re: Abduction Digest 81
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve.Gresser@f100.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Gresser)
Subject: Ideas...
Date: 3 Feb 93 00:49:00 GMT
> occurred to show this in progress. I also noted that at times some of
> the victims reported a fluid left behind but it often disappeared or
> washed off and was not retrieved.
Considering the allegations regarding the conduct of these aliens, could we not
assume that what is left behind is semen, or even alien semen? If it is in fact
the alien equivilant of semen, THAT would be quite a catch! We'd be able to
examine, if not them directly, thier genetic makeup (assuming they have one!)
and thier primary fluidic makeup (if not water or some water-like substance).
Do the descriptions of this fluid become in any way explicit?
Thanks,
Steve
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Abduction Investigation (2)
Date: 3 Feb 93 06:42:06 GMT
Sheldon,
Although it is impossible to tell exactly what has happened to this woman,
it does sound like she has been through the mill. You have done a good job in
obtaining some of the more dramatic and perhaps terrifying incidents in her
life that she consciously remembers. My best guess is that there is probably
much more. Her medical history is useful, especially her ear and nose bleeds,
gynecological problems, and other unusual medical sequelae. Being sexually
abused probably mirrors the society and one must be very careful not to place
too much emphasis on this as a causative factor for the other events. What have
you decided to do in the future? Are you going forward with hypnosis? Do you
have a competent hypnotist who thoroughly understands the abduction phenomenon?
The woman might also need psychological counseling and a good therapist is
always essential in this regard.
So far, you seem to be on top of the situation and I hope that the woman
can have a satisfactory resolution to her problems. Please keep me posted about
what is happening with her. If you drop me a line, I might be able to send you
the name of a therapist or hypnotist in your area (if there is anyone) who is
at least interested in the subject, if not expert in it.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Abduction Digest 81
Date: 3 Feb 93 07:19:19 GMT
David,
One does not enter into UFO or abduction research for the money. Anyone
who has been in it for any length of time will tell you that. The
amount of money that both Budd Hopkins and I have have spent in
out-of-pocket expenses is enormous. Until very recently there has been
absolutely no funding for any aspect of UFO research from established
funding institutions. This is a "negative cash flow" research
enterprise. Having been involved with this for over twenty-seven years,
I can absolutely tell you that only the naive and\or cynical think that
there is a living to be made in UFO research, Strieber notwithstanding.
I fail to understand why you find it curious that the only way you can
find out about UFOs or abductions is through books and magazines. UFO
researchers have had the normal channels of scholarly communication
closed off to them from the beginning. They have been forced to write
articles for periodicals founded for that purpose. I am not sure,
however, exactly what your stance is. Should we not write articles and
books? Should we keep our information to ourselves and not share it
with other researchers? Should we not attend UFO conferences and give
papers? I am not sure what you have in mind, or what you find
objectionable.
Budd and I have written four books between us about the UFO and
abduction phenomenon. It is an effective and lasting way of
making the public aware of this most important of all phenomena. The
Linda case is enormously complex. Articles cannot do it justice, only a
full-length book will. In spite of this, Budd has given various talks
about the case and published several articles about it. I am not going
to get into a long treatise about the Linda case. Suffice it to say
that all researchers in the social sciences publish books and write
articles about their work. There is no difference with this area. Both
Budd and I do our own hypnosis of abductees. In my opinion, this is a
very difficult and specialized area of research. I know that I find
myself consulting with psychiatrists, psychologists, clinical social
workers, and hypnotherapists from around the country on a regular basis.
Basically, they have someone whom they have been seeing who tells them
of abduction phenomena that has happened to them. They are at a loss as
to how to proceed and want to learn about the problems of abduction
research and therapy, the proper methods of hypnosis, and the like.
Budd and I along with John Carpenter have been conducting workshops
for therapists for the same reasons (next one in Atlanta). I have found
a wide spectrum of expertize and competence in this area and it does not
matter what the profession of the researcher or hypnotist is. We have
found entirely incompetent psychiatrists and excellent hypnotherapists.
We have found inept psychologists and extremely helpful and sincere UFO
researchers who want to help. Thus one's profession is not a good
predictor of how one will fare with this subject.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Delaware Talk
Date: 3 Feb 93 07:28:04 GMT
Trying to obtain an abduction on videotape has proved to be
frustrating. I and other researchers have found the same problem: wires
pulled out, camera turned off, power outage in the room or house, and
the like. The best idea that I have heard so far, short of aiming
a camera into unsuspecting abductee's bedroom from a nearby house or
apartment, is to build a device in which a video camera and\or VCR is
connected to a pressure plate underneath one's mattress. When a person
gets out of bed the pressure plate completes a circuit which is
attached to a five minute timer. After five minutes, the video camera is
turned on in the record mode. Thus we may not get the beginning of the
abduction but we may get the end. There will be no electronic equipment
on during the abduction phase, and if the person gets up to go to the
bathroom, there will be enough time to get back into bed without
tripping the camera.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Abduction Digest 81
Date: 3 Feb 93 07:19:19 GMT
David,
One does not enter into UFO or abduction research for the money.
Anyone who has been in it for any length of time will tell you that.
The amount of money that both Budd Hopkins and I have have spent in
out-of-pocket expenses is enormous. Until very recently there has been
absolutely no funding for any aspect of UFO research from established
funding institutions. This is a "negative cash flow" research
enterprise. Having been involved with this for over twenty-seven years,
I can absolutely tell you that only the naive and\or cynical think that
there is a living to be made in UFO research, Strieber notwithstanding.
I fail to understand why you find it curious that the only way you
can find out about UFOs or abductions is through books and magazines.
UFO researchers have had the normal channels of scholarly communication
closed off to them from the beginning. They have been forced to write
articles for periodicals founded for that purpose. I am not sure,
however, exactly what your stance is. Should we not write articles and
books? Should we keep our information to ourselves and not share it
with other researchers? Should we not attend UFO conferences and give
papers?
I am not sure what you have in mind, or what you find objectionable.
Budd and I have written four books between us about the UFO and
abduction phenomenon. It is an effective and lasting way of making the
public aware of this most important of all phenomena. The Linda case
is enormously complex. Articles cannot do it justice, only a full-length
book will. In spite of this, Budd has given various talks about the case
and published several articles about it. I am not going to get into a
long treatise about the Linda case. Suffice it to say that all
researchers in the social sciences publish books and write articles
about their work. There is no difference with this area. Both Budd and
I do our own hypnosis of abductees. In my opinion, this is a very
difficult and specialized area of research. I know that I find
myself consulting with psychiatrists, psychologists, clinical social
workers, and hypnotherapists from around the country on a regular basis.
Basically, they have someone whom they have been seeing who tells them
of abduction phenomena that has happened to them. They are at a loss as
to how to proceed and want to learn about the problems of abduction
research and therapy, the proper methods of hypnosis, and the like.
Budd and I along with John Carpenter have been conducting workshops for
therapists for the same reasons (next one in Atlanta). I have found a
wide spectrum of expertize and competence in this area and it does not
matter what the profession of the researcher or hypnotist is. We have
found entirely incompetent psychiatrists and excellent hypnotherapists.
We have found inept psychologists and extremely helpful and sincere UFO
researchers who want to help. Thus one's profession is not a good
predictor of how one will fare with this subject.
-- David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
*******************************************************************************
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 86
Sunday, February 14th 1993
(C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
New
Ideas...
Abductions
Ideas...
New
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: New
Date: 12 Feb 93 05:00:00 GMT
BS>As you know I have my own experiences and am sort of waiting until there is
BS>someone that knows something in this area (Florida) before I pursue any
BS>further.
BS>I have been away for several months and was just wondering.
Hi Bill, when you do eventually link up with someone in FL,
I'm sure we would all be interested in the follow-up.
Your posted case sounded quite intriguing. Have things
quieted down lately?
--Sheldon
* OLX 2.1 TD * <SLW> <CHICAGO> <NETMAIL> 1:115/887.2 (708)-887-7687
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell)
Subject: Ideas...
Date: 9 Feb 93 04:55:00 GMT
-=> Quoting Michael Corbin to All <=-
MC> As far as the abduction
MC> phenomenon goes, David Jacobs has stated that at times an
MC> attempt has been made to videotape an abduction in
MC> progress, but very little has occurred to show this in
MC> progress.
>From what I've read these videotaping attempts were poorly conceived and
executed. I haven't heard of a single credible attempt and I think that
is surprising and acutely revealing.
MC> I also noted that at times some of the victims
MC> reported a fluid left behind but it often disappeared or
MC> washed off and was not retrieved.
Not a _single_ specimen? Amazing. This is only slightly related but
didn't Ed Walters report a black substance under his fingernails after a
"UFO incident" and wasn't a specimen given to the onsite investigators?
Did this ever get analyzed?
MC> However, there is another aspect of this that has not been addressed
MC> to anyone's satisfaction, although we have heard numerous
MC> reports coming forth alleging that a breakthrough might be
MC> on the horizon. That is the reported incidence of
MC> implants. What has happened with this aspect?
According to Linda Howe (11/91) the new and improved version is made of
a fleshy substance that makes them undetectable and they are also
completely biodegradable. (!) The old classic versions, with the little
wires poking out of them, are suppossedly being studied by scientists at
MIT - according to Jim Greenen, among others - and as recently as a few
months ago Hopkins was showing photographs of them at conventions and
proclaiming that they were currently being studied...
MC> Finally, if we wanted to instrument and measure the
MC> phenomenon, what would we look for and how would we go
MC> about measuring it?
It sort of made sense to me to try to slice the phenomenon right down
the middle thus reducing the noise level by 50% if possible so I thought
that something that tried to establish Objectively Physical versus
Subjectively Whatever would be a good start.
Videotaping and/or filming from several devices from several angles made
sense. Permanently mounted in sealed 'cabinets' of some sort,
tamperproof, remote on/off. Isolated power, sheilded cables, realtime
metering and such in case the electricity gets zapped. Basic
environmental monitoring like humidity, temperature, etc. Exotic
environmental monitoring like EMF, microwaves, etc. At this point it
starts to make a bit of sense to serialize the data streams realtime and
archive to tape or disk, maybe use a PC to hub all of the gear.
(Most of the credit for this very boiled-down layout goes to a dozen
folks from Odyssey who have been discussing this for a few months...)
It _IS_ possible to do this cheaply _and_ with credibility. Obviously,
placing the videocamera on a tripod in the corner in the bedroom next to
the rocking chair and asking the Abductee to switch it on before he or
she retires for the evening is so utterly silly that it deserves no
further comment.
However, placing the videocamera in a metal box, one side of which has
been replaced with a piece of glass, that is bolted from the inside to a
sturdy stand is _NOT_ going to cost a fortune. One of those easy to
find light timers (to fake out the would-be burglars into thinking that
you're really home and that you turn on your lights every night at
exactly 7:00pm) might be able to handle the on/off.
(Hechingers supplies the sheet metal, sheet metal screws, lag bolts,
pane of glass and aquarium sealer as well as an assortment of electrical
outlet timers. They'll even snip it to your specifications if you ask
nicely. Probably cost $50 for this stuff max.)
I'll bet for $20 the tech at the local camera store could rewire the
videocamera to start recording when powered on - especially if you buy
the videocamera there...
Thanks, take care.
John.
-
<Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence>
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
--
John Powell - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: John.Powell@f601.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 13 Feb 93 06:34:04 GMT
1. I have heard of a few cases in which the abductee claimed to either have
gained time or to have been in a situation where they drove home after the
abduction and arrived only a few minutes after they left--a time distance of
two hours should have elapsed. Unfortunately, neither of these cases has been
investigated so I cannot say for sure what has happened in them.
2. I suppose that it is possible that "hypbrids" are walking around unaware
of their situation, but we have found no evidence for this as of yet. However,
this is not as far fetched a possibility as one would imagine. Afterall, we are
still in the process of defining the parameters of the abduction phenomenon.
Until we know exactly what is going on, we must make allowances for any
eventuality.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Ideas...
Date: 13 Feb 93 06:42:54 GMT
Steve,
The fluid that I collected that has been left behind is usually of a
brown-rust color that can be found on any article of the abductee's clothing.
From what I can gather, the aliens use the fluid on the abductee's body (for
reasons we do not know) and every once in a while a few drops of it will splash
off the abductee's body and on to the floor. If the abductee has his or her
clothes on the floor next to the table, a few of the drops might land on the
clothes.
We have no evidence that aliens have genitals--at least there are none
that are apparent. We have no evidence of any form of intercourse between
human's and aliens. However, there is some evidence of this between hybrids
and aliens. This is an area that we might have some success in searching for
stains that you mentioned.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: New
Date: 13 Feb 93 06:54:09 GMT
Hi Bill,
So far Budd Hopkins, John Carpenter, and I have conducted two workshops
for Mental Health Professionals. The first was in New York City and the
second was in Los Angeles. The third workshop will be at the end of March in
Atlanta. Perhaps some people will come up from Florida for that one.
Incidentally, John Mack will join us for the upcoming workshop.
Bill, Send me a postcard with your address on it again. I might be able to
find someone for you now. I feel a lot better about the help situation
recently because we have been finding quite a lot of sincere mental health
professionals who desire to learn more about this phenomenon. Budd and I have
put together a "primer" on how to do regressive hypnosis of potential
abductees that wea re sending out to as many interested professionals as we
can. I believe that it will be published in the upcoming JUFOS. We are hoping
to help standardize methodology so that investigators and therapists can all
be on the same playing field.
Talk to you later--David.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
*******************************************************************************
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 87
Monday, February 22nd 1993
(C) Copyright 1993 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Abduction Investigation (
Implants
New
Abduction/Abuse
Abduction Investigation (
Implants
New
Implants
New
Abductions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Abduction Investigation (
Date: 16 Feb 93 06:37:50 GMT
Sheldon,
Estimates of the percentage of sexually abused children in the United
States ranges from about 25% to about 40%. Basically, nobody really knows the
extent of the problem. I have found several of the people with whom I have
worked to have been sexually abused as children. Most others have not been. I
would imagine that the number of abductees who have suffered abuse probably
mirrors the population as a whole. The subject is complicated, however, by the
fact that some abductees feel that they have been sexually abused as a child
(usually a one-shot, vague remembrance) that turns out to be an abduction
event. In other words, the sexual abuse is a screen memory for the abduction
event.
We are making good headway in training therapists and others in how to do
regressive hypnosis of abductees and I might have someone for you in Oregon. In
the meantime, I will be happy to talk with anyone with whom you would like to
look into your friend's situation. A conference call is fine, or the therapist
could just call me directly. Any way you want to arrange it is fine with me.
Thanks for the kind words. I have been involved with UFO research since 1965 and I have never experienced a more contentious period. I
have also never seen so many mean-spirited critics before. So, it is
nice to hear some supportive sentiments for a change. Thanks again.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Vince.Johnson@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Vince Johnson)
Subject: Implants
Date: 17 Feb 93 17:54:00 GMT
Could you describe the implants that are reportedly being studied
at MIT (or verify that this is indeed occuring)? Have any pinkish,
1mm (along the major axis) hollow, egg-shaped objects been recovered
and/or analyzed?
Regards,
Vince
--
Vince Johnson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Vince.Johnson@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Anson.Kennedy@p0.f25.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Anson Kennedy)
Subject: New
Date: 18 Feb 93 03:39:00 GMT
In a message to Bill Skiles you said (in part):
> the second was in Los Angeles. The third workshop
> will be at the end of March in Atlanta. Perhaps some
> people will come up from Florida for that one.
> Incidentally, John Mack will join us for the upcoming
> workshop.
Where in Atlanta will this be held? And how does one get invited?
I would be very interested in attending if possible.
--- Anson
--
Anson Kennedy - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Anson.Kennedy@p0.f25.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction/Abuse
Date: 18 Feb 93 04:27:00 GMT
DJ>Estimates of the percentage of sexually abused children in the United
DJ>States ranges from about 25% to about 40%. Basically, nobody really knows
DJ>the extent of the problem.
If the 25%-40% figure is based on individuals that have _admitted_
sexual abuse, the actual percentage is probably much higher. I am
assuming this data was obtained from a poll of some sort or data
gleaned from physicians and psychologists? Not ALL people would
_want_ to confess to being abused, while others, may have repressed
the experience to the point of being _unaware_ themselves.
DJ>I have found several of the people with whom I
DJ>have worked to have been sexually abused as children.
I would think, according to the aforementioned statistics, that
significantly more than "several" of your people have been
sexually abused. I don't know how many people you have worked
with, but let us say for argument's sake... 200 or so. If
25%-40% (according to your estimate) were abused, we are talking
about 50-80 individuals.... significantly greater than _several_!
DJ> Most others have not been <abused>.
IF, on the other hand, the actual number of abuse cases IS
merely "several", than you have uncovered something rather
significant. Why would a random sampling of individuals
claiming abduction, contain a very small percentage of
abuse victims. By your term "several", am I safe to assume
less than 5% have been abused?
DJ>In other words, the sexual abuse is a screen memory
DJ>for the abduction event.
Or... some psychologists might state the inverse!
DJ>We are making good headway in training therapists and others in how to
DJ>do regressive hypnosis of abductees and I might have someone for you in
DJ>Oregon.
Can you provide me with contact information? I have heard of
Ida Kannenberg in Eugene... via Leo Sprinkle.
DJ>In the meantime, I will be happy to talk with anyone with whom
DJ>you would like to look into your friend's situation. A conference
DJ>call is fine, or the therapist could just call me directly.
DJ>Any way you want to arrange it is fine with me.
Is your office phone # still 215-836-5997? Also are there any times
that are better in attempting to reach you?
DJ>Thanks for the kind words. ... it is
DJ>nice to hear some supportive sentiments for a change.
You deserve them... It is only through the dedication of
individuals such as yourself, that we shall eventually
discover the true meaning of all this... whatever it
may be.
--Sheldon
* OLX 2.1 TD * <SLW> <CHICAGO> <NETMAIL> 1:115/887.2 (708)-887-7687
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Phil.Koliske@f8.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Phil Koliske)
Subject: Abduction Investigation (
Date: 20 Feb 93 04:11:48 GMT
DJ>Sheldon,
DJ> Although it is impossible to tell exactly what has happened to this
DJ>woman, it does sound like she has been through the mill. You have done a
DJ>good job in obtaining some of the more dramatic and perhaps terrifying
DJ>incidents in her life that she consciously remembers. My best guess is
DJ>there is probably much more. Her medical history is useful, especially he
DJ>ear and nose bleeds, gynecological problems, and other unusual medical
DJ>sequelae. Being sexually abused probably mirrors the society and one must
DJ>be very careful not to place too much emphasis on this as a causative fact
DJ>for the other events. What have you decided to do in the future? Are you
DJ>going forward with hypnosis? Do you have a competent hypnotist who
DJ>thoroughly understands the abduction phenomenon? The woman might also nee
DJ>psychological counseling and a good therapist is always essential in this
DJ>regard.
DJ> So far, you seem to be on top of the situation and I hope that the
DJ>woman can have a satisfactory resolution to her problems. Please keep me
DJ>posted about what is happening with her. If you drop me a line, I might be
DJ>able to send you the name of a therapist or hypnotist in your area (if the
DJ>is anyone) who is at least interested in the subject, if not expert in it.
Hi: I was reading your mail and was wondering if you could put me in
touch with a local person (group)?..that specializes in abduction
cases? I was looking into it because after reading a few books and
reading this last case it has raised questions that I may have been a
victim of an abduction when I was young.....I feel silly about doing
this ..but There are too many questions about my childhood that need to
be addressed. Thank .....PHIL [ Phoenix, Az.]
--
Phil Koliske - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Phil.Koliske@f8.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Implants
Date: 20 Feb 93 06:04:28 GMT
An analysis of an implant was conducted by a person connected with MIT. it
was not of the variety that you described. The conclusion that he came to was
that it was inconclusive. However, it did not seem metallic, as memory serves
me. I am being a little bit not forthcoming here because I believe that he
will have a piece about it in the upcoming proceedings of the MIT conference
and I don't want to steal his thunder.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: New
Date: 20 Feb 93 06:12:06 GMT
The invitations are being sent out to Mental Health Professionals
exclusively. They are being handled through the Robert Bigelow Foundation in
Las Vegas, Nevada. Robert Bigelow is supporting the endeavor. Right now I can
give you no information other than what I have said. I do not even know where
in Atlanta the event will be held. I can probably provide that information as
we get closer to the
date.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Vince.Johnson@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Vince Johnson)
Subject: Implants
Date: 20 Feb 93 17:53:00 GMT
> An analysis of an implant was conducted by a person
>connected with MIT. it was not of the variety that you
>described. The conclusion that he came to was that it was
>inconclusive. However, it did not seem metallic, as memory
>serves me. I am being a little bit not forthcoming here
>because I believe that he will have a piece about it in the
>upcoming proceedings of the MIT conference and I don't want to
>steal his thunder.
> * Origin: ParaNet * Delta-Alpha * Philadelphia PA
>(9:1010/21.0)
>202/502 812
>2405/666
Do you know when the MIT report will be published? I've heard it's
to be 1000 pages long.
Regards,
Vince
--
Vince Johnson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Vince.Johnson@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Greenen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Greenen)
Subject: New
Date: 20 Feb 93 16:59:00 GMT
* Replying to a message originally to David Jacobs
BS> Hi David,
BS>
BS> What's new in the abduction research field? When last we
BS> talked you stated that you were involved with going around
BS> the country and helping others to learn about regressive
BS> techniques as well as educate them on abductions and how to
BS> help treat those that may have had these experiences. How
BS> is the information going? Are other professionals becoming
BS> aware now, are they getting involved. Anyone here in
BS> Florida.
BS>
BS> As you know I have my own experiences and am sort of
BS> waiting until there is someone that knows something in this
BS> area (Florida) before I pursue any further.
BS>
BS> I have been away for several months and was just wondering.
BS>
BS> Thank you for your time, Bill
BS>
BS> --- WMail 2.3/demo
Bill, give me call at the International UFO Center in Orlando, FL
at 407-351-4306. I might be able to help you.
73's ---Jim---
--
Jim Greenen - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Greenen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Greenen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 20 Feb 93 17:11:01 GMT
David, I have acouple of very interesting cases going on in Frida
and would like to contact you by mail if possible. One involves a 5
month missing time and another is involves a 61 yr old lady that has
had some unusal experiences since she was 13 yrs. old. She is now
under going regressive hypnosis by a very well train and
professional person in this field.
Is there a address that I can reach you at?
Jim Greenen----- International UFO Center, Orlando Florida
--
Jim Greenen - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Greenen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG
*******************************************************************************
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********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Abduction Digest, Number 88
Thursday, March 11th 1993
(C) Copyright 1993 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved.
Today's Topics:
Implants
New
New
Abductions
Fire in the Sky
Fire In The Sky
Re: FIRE IN THE SKY
Re: Fire In The Sky
Abductions
Database
Houston Mass Abduction
Abductor
Abductor
Fire in the Sky
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: Implants
Date: 20 Feb 93 05:04:28 GMT
An analysis of an implant was conducted by a person connected with MIT. it
was not of the variety that you described. The conclusion that he came to was
that it was inconclusive. However, it did not seem metallic, as memory serves
me. I am being a little bit not forthcoming here because I believe that he
will have a piece about it in the upcoming proceedings of the MIT conference
and I don't want to steal his thunder.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs)
Subject: New
Date: 20 Feb 93 05:12:06 GMT
The invitations are being sent out to Mental Health Professionals
exclusively. They are being handled through the Robert Bigelow Foundation in
Las Vegas, Nevada. Robert Bigelow is supporting the endeavor. Right now I
can give you no information other than what I have said. I do not even know
where in Atlanta the event will be held. I can probably provide that
information as we get closer to the date.
--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: David.Jacobs@p0.f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Greenen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Greenen)
Subject: New
Date: 20 Feb 93 15:59:00 GMT
* Replying to a message originally to David Jacobs
BS> Hi David,
BS>
BS> What's new in the abduction research field? When last we
BS> talked you stated that you were involved with going around
BS> the country and helping others to learn about regressive
BS> techniques as well as educate them on abductions and how to
BS> help treat those that may have had these experiences. How
BS> is the information going? Are other professionals becoming
BS> aware now, are they getting involved. Anyone here in
BS> Florida.
BS>
BS> As you know I have my own experiences and am sort of
BS> waiting until there is someone that knows something in this
BS> area (Florida) before I pursue any further.
BS>
BS> I have been away for several months and was just wondering.
BS>
BS> Thank you for your time, Bill
BS>
BS> --- WMail 2.3/demo
Bill, give me call at the International UFO Center in Orlando, FL
at 407-351-4306. I might be able to help you.
73's ---Jim---
--
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From: Jim.Greenen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 20 Feb 93 16:11:01 GMT
David, I have acouple of very interesting cases going on in Frida
and would like to contact you by mail if possible. One involves a 5
month missing time and another is involves a 61 yr old lady that has
had some unusal experiences since she was 13 yrs. old. She is now
under going regressive hypnosis by a very well train and
professional person in this field.
Is there a address that I can reach you at?
Jim Greenen----- International UFO Center, Orlando Florida
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From: Jake,.Smith@p0.f26.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jake, Smith)
Subject: Fire in the Sky
Date: 24 Feb 93 19:17:00 GMT
Is the story presented in the new movie "Fire in the Sky" crediatable?
The preview for it scared the shit out of me, even though I am not
a beilever in UFos
for the technical walls that would be hard for aleins to gap and the
reason for keeping their exinstince a secret. But that doesn't mean
it doesn't make me pull the covers up a little higher. HEHE
Jake, Smith (ACE)
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From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Fire In The Sky
Date: 26 Feb 93 07:43:00 GMT
Jake, Smith writes:
> Is the story presented in the new movie "Fire in the Sky" crediatable?
> The preview for it scared the shit out of me, even though I
> am not a beilever in UFos for the technical walls that
> would be hard for aleins to gap and the
> reason for keeping their exinstince a secret. But that doesn't mean
> it doesn't make me pull the covers up a little higher. HEHE
> Jake, Smith (ACE)
Jake:
This movie is based on the Travis Walton abduction case.
Tracy Torme has been working on this project for *years* and now
it's finally going to hit the big screen. Unsolved Mysteries did
a story on this case about a year ago.
The outstanding aspect about the Travis Walton case is that it
involved an abduction that was actually *witnessed* by about 4 or
5 of Walton's fellow workers. (I think they were lumberjacks.)
The drawback to this case has always been that the National
Enquirer made him take a "lie detector" test, which he flunked.
Polygraphs don't really detect lies anyway. Ever since _Frye vs.
U.S._ the courts haven't given them much credence. Walton
claimed that the polygraph results were skewed by the fact that
he was badly shaken up as a result of the abduction, which, as I
recall, was a 2 or 3 - day event. Anyway, he passed a subsequent
polygraph, but by then, the Enquirer had cooled on the story.
Just as well, eh? A blessing in disguise! So now we get to see
the full story with all the scary details. Can't wait!
-- John
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: FIRE IN THE SKY
Date: 28 Feb 93 16:52:54 GMT
As for the polygraph tests. All five who saw him get out of the truck and
approach the UFO, passed. None saw him abducted, they fled before that would
have happened. As for Travis, he Flunked, passed, refused, and refused again
right before the last scheduled test.
I've never seen the actual questions, but the research I have seen says the
five others we tested because the police thought they might have harmed
Walton. The first three of only four questions were about whether they
murdered or harmed TW. The last question was asking if they saw a bright
light or UFO. In other words, they all believed that they saw a UFO, but none
saw him abducted.
If you watch TV you won't see the part about Walton being a UFO buff, and
wanting to get picked up. Or that he stated beofre, that if abducted he would
like to convince the aliens to go get his brother also, so he too could
experience the event. His family was not upset or worried, according to some
reports, and before the event he had told them not to woory if he was ever
abducted.
I don't remember the details of the contract, I read that years ago, but it
appears that they were behind and were subject to a penalty if not completed
on schedule. This event would fit the clause which could have saved the
monetary penalty.
So the bright light was witnessed by six people, and the abduction was only
the one person. Travis Walton. Those who have claimed in the past that he
isn't making any money on this, might reconsider. Book, TV, interviews, and
now a movie? I have serious doubts.
--
Pete Porro - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke)
Subject: Re: Fire In The Sky
Date: 4 Mar 93 06:23:00 GMT
Pete Porro writes:
> . . . None saw him
> abducted, they fled before that would have happened.
Ah-ha! So we *still* don't have any cases where an abduction was
witnessed by anyone "on the ground".
> * * *
> If you watch TV you won't see the part about Walton being a
> UFO buff, and wanting to get picked up. Or that he stated
> beofre, that if abducted he would like to convince the
> aliens to go get his brother also, so he too could
> experience the event. His family was not upset or worried,
> according to some reports, and before the event he had told
> them not to woory if he was ever abducted.
Interesting ... I remember reading something similar about
Valentech. I think his girlfriend was quoted as saying that he
always wanted to be abducted by a UFO.
-- John
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 8 Feb 93 04:36:00 GMT
I noted, with interest, mention of Baker's work on possible alternate
explanations for abductions. Over the years, I have found it very useful to
have explored material on a number of subjects, which appear to impact on
abduction research. While I am not proposing that these
areas explain abductions, I believe they may yield some avenues:-
1. Hypnagogic and hypnopompic imagery-as "real as real" imagery which can be
very complex, on the boundary of sleep/awake.
2. The "Old Hag" phenomena-read: " The Terror that Comes in the NIght" by David
J Hufford, 1982, Uni of Pennsylvania press. People who awake with the sense of
paralysis and possibly a sense of something in their room. Hufford presented a
fascinating paper at the Boston abduction
conference.
3. Incubus and sucubus-demons who come during the night and sit on your chest,
and may indulge in sexual relations. Way back in the middle ages, but reports
continue right to this day.
Both 2 and 3 are reported by people outside of the sphere of UFOs and
abductions, yet have some of the same symptoms.
4. Past life regression material, accounts gained under hypnosis which appear
to derive solely from the imagination/memory of the individual.
5. Near-death experiences. Read the works of US Psychologist Kenneth Ring,
particularly his new book "The Omega Factor.
6. The works of Canadian brain researcher Michael Persinger om epilepsy and
paranormal events. In one paper he reported "curing" a person with visitor
experiences by the use of an anti-epilepsy drug.
I believe more wide spread cross-subject research may well help us tackle
abduction research. I would be happy to suggest reading material on the above
areas to anyone who asks.
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Database
Date: 8 Mar 93 04:30:00 GMT
Some time ago I saw a posting here advising of a call for people to
send all their abduction events to a central database (to be run by
MUFON/Hopkins/Jacobs). Does anyone know if this has gotten off the
ground?
--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Vince.Johnson@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Vince Johnson)
Subject: Houston Mass Abduction
Date: 7 Mar 93 19:34:00 GMT
The following file is courtesy of HUFON Report, the newsletter of the
Houston UFO Network. For more information call (713) 850-1352.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(See related graphic file HUFONABD.GIF)
The Mass Abduction Event of December 8, 1992
by Dale Musser
Note: In the following report, the term "alien(s)" is used generically to
denote the abducting entities, and does not presuppose an
extraterrestrial origin.
In late summer of 1992, Derrel Sims, chief abductions investigator for
HUFON (Houston UFO Network) implemented a plan to establish
communications with alien abductors. This was to be accomplished by
means of hypnotic suggestions implanted in the subconscious minds of
several subjects with multiple abduction histories. The intent being, if
any of these subjects were abducted again, the hypnotic suggestions
would allow the individuals to gather data and/or establish more
positive contact with the aliens.
In November of 1992, subject DS92007PH was abducted. The subject
maintained conscious memory for a fair amount of time into the
abduction before the aliens were able to "zap" the subject (place the
subject in a mental state where they no longer have conscious memories
of the event). At the beginning of the abduction, the subject was able
to communicate with the aliens, although they did not appear to be
terribly inclined to communicate or reveal much information. As the
aliens were completing their preparations for their examination, the
subject felt herself losing mental control. The aliens began to reinforce
their efforts to "zap" her. In one last effort to maintain consciousness
and communication as long as possible she blurted out "We know what
your doing... we know about..." (subject still under investigation). This
statement seemed to evoke a reaction on the part of the aliens and
appears to have predicated the events that follow.
Starting December 8, 1992, just prior to the HUFON meeting "Alien
Abductions: Working with Abductees," several of the subjects on the
panel were reabducted. These abductions were not realized at the time,
but over the next few days, many of the abductees began suffering PAS
(Post Abduction Syndrome). At this time the abductees were not in
communication with each other.
Subject DS92002DM reported that he had experienced a dream or
possible flashback of an earlier abduction When he began having PAS
and other physical manifestations that accompanied his earlier
abductions, it became obvious to him that an abduction had taken
place.
Subjects DM92003JA, DS92034LC & DS92017RP also reported dreams
with possible abduction signs. In addition a number of the abductees
reported having nose bleeds and/or sinus pains.
On Thursday, December 10th, at the monthly HUFON meeting, a
number of the abductees were questioned by the audience about their
experiences. Although most of the abductees were very uncomfortable
and felt that they "...shouldn't be talking about (their) abductions," the
meeting went quite well.
On Friday morning, December 11, many of the abductees (most of whom
were on the panel the night before), awoke to find they had nose bleeds
during the night. Almost all had sinus pains and within a day or two
almost all had head colds and flu like symptoms.
Subject DS92009LT awoke on the 11th with an irritation in one eye.
While rubbing her eye, a small object (about the size of a mustard seed)
came out of her eye. The subject called Derrel Sims and turned the
object over to him.
This object has been photographed and is currently undergoing
analysis. The object appears to be made out of a flesh-colored plastic.
It is somewhat egg-shaped (with the narrow end open) and is hollow
inside.
On the same day, subject DS92002DM awoke to discover he had a nose
bleed (the first in over 20 years). He also called Derrel Sims to make
immediate arrangements for a hypnosis session. On Sunday, December
20, 1992, DS92002DM was regressed hypnotically to his latest
encounter with aliens.
The event occurred the night of December 10, the night of the HUFON
meeting. Some time after the subject went to sleep for the night, he was
awakened by aliens in his bedroom who, in a very quick procedure,
removed a nasal implant from the subject and immediately left (later
under hypnosis a number of other abductees reported similar events).
Mr. Sims then regressed the subject to the next earliest abduction
(December 8).
On December 8, subject DS92002DM awoke and observed a bright flash
of light (there was no sound of thunder following). The subject rolled
over and noticed a small gray alien "wearing a harness/utility belt." The
subject was instructed to follow the alien outside, where a blue/white
light was shining on a spot on the ground. The subject was instructed
to stand in the light, and an instant later, found himself in a large
circular room (about the size of a high school gymnasium).
The subject was instructed to disrobe and led out of the room and
through a series of corridors and passageways. Part of the time they
walked but mostly they were transported by a means unknown by the
subject (floated or on a conveyor).
Eventually, they arrived at a small room where several other aliens were
present. A quick physical examination was given and then a human-
appearing individual entered the room (the subject in prior abductions
had never encountered a human). The human asked several questions
as to how/why the abductee knew he had been abducted before. The
subject was also asked how abductees knew/found out about other
abductees and why were they meeting together.
A model of the human brain was shown to the subject and he was asked
to indicate where the "subconscious mind was located." When the
subject was unable to indicate a location, he received a mental image of
another abductee (DS92007PH) in a state of suspended animation and
had the impression she was being asked the same questions. The
human then left the room and the subject was moved to another room.
This room appeared to be some type of meeting or conference room. It
also was round, but the lighting and the furnishings were quite
different. A number of different alien life forms entered the room, the
last being the one with human appearance. The small grey aliens left
the room but two of the taller brown aliens stayed. (The description of
the other life forms is being withheld pending further investigation).
The subject was again questioned as to the nature of the subconscious
mind and to his knowledge of his abductions and other abductees.
After each question the subject received images of other abductees. He
could see them in a room together. They were all nude and seemed to
be unaware of the presence of each other. Each seemed to be in a
halucinative state and behaved as if acting out a part.
He sensed that the other abductees were being "accessed" by the
aliens by some means and were being asked many of the same
questions as himself. The subject also sensed DS92007PH, who was in
a different location from himself and from the other abductees.
He could "feel" the aliens trying to "access" her mind to retrieve
information. A debate seemed to be taking place among the aliens as to
whether the "experiment/project" should be allowed to continue or if it
had been compromised by the recent events (abductees knowing of
their abductions and meeting together).
Accusations were made about "improper procedures being followed by
the "Grays" and "Browns." At one point, when DS92002DM
"sensed/saw" the other abductees as they were being accessed by the
aliens, he had the thought that the other abductees "don't know there
are others there."
This thought caught the attention of the human who seemed surprised
that the subject was picking up on their activities. Immediately, two
"Grays" entered the room and took hold of the subject's hands and he
was unable to "pick up anything further of the alien thoughts or
questioning."
At this point another of Derrel Sims' hypnotic suggestions activated
itself with the subject with interesting results which we are unable to
report at this time as further investigation and experimentation are
continuing.
One of the more interesting aspects of this case, and one which is being
looked into further, pertains to a question asked of subject DS92002DM
by the aliens. At one point he was asked what he knew about a
government project called "Project Prometheus." Although the subject
had no knowledge of such a project, we are researching the matter.
As the meeting seemed to be ending, the human asked the subject what
he "would like to do," to which the subject responded that he would like
to go with them (a suggestion even he finds bizarre). The subject was
told that this was "impossible" as he was "contaminated" (the subject
did not feel this implied physically).
The human then took him into a side room where he was shown a
"strange sort of chart or diagram" which he did not understand and was
unlike any he'd ever seen before. He then was led by the two "Browns"
through several other rooms to another examination room/laboratory
where a nasal implant was placed in his nostril (the one later removed).
The subject was then given his pajamas, told to dress, and returned to
his home and bed.
Subjects DS92009LT and DM92003JA were also hypnotized and
reported being abducted on December 8, and being in a room with
others.
Subject DS92034LC had conscious memories of being in the room on
that night.
All three of these subjects have independently described the room, its
appearance, and individuals in the room. All of the subjects'
descriptions are similar and details of the room match--including several
unique aspects unheard of in other cases.
It is interesting to note that all of the abductees in the "group room
experiences" perceived events differently although parallel. One
believed she had died and was with her dead brother (who had strange
eyes). One thought she was with God whose face she couldn't see
because of a fog that only allowed her to see his shape. All of the
individuals reported themselves and others in the room as being nude.
One abductee who felt hungry was told they would be fed was handed
silverware as though they were about to be served food. When she
was told to look at the silverware under hypnosis, it was not silverware
at all but some strange objects she could not identify.
Each of the abductees in the "group room experience" seemed to be in
a drugged or hallucinative state. This condition seemed to alleviate
when they were taken to another room for examinations and nasal and
ocular implants.
Other abductees also have reported supporting events and experiences.
The total number of abductees involved in the event is not known for
sure.
Great care was taken in the early stages of the investigation to ensure
that subjects were unaware of the others' events. It was only after
hypnosis, with similar descriptions of events and locations by five
different individuals (each unaware of any other abductee reporting
anything) that information concerning the event was released.
Numerous descriptions and minute details have been deliberately left
out of this report, as investigations are still ongoing.
The significance of this event cannot be overlooked. It would appear
that the implants were deliberately placed in the abductees before the
HUFON meeting and removed the day after. Whether the aliens knew
about the meeting or had simply implanted the abductees with the intent
of monitoring a gathering of abductees is unknown. However, for the
first time within the history of the abduction phenomenon, the
abductees seem to have captured the attention of the abductors.
Although we do not know the outcome of these events we hope that it
may lead to a breakthrough in communication, improvement in
relationship with the aliens, and an end to abductions and
experimentation on unwilling subjects.
For more information on HUFON abduction research, contact Derrel
Sims at (713) 353-1550, or Patrice Eldrige at (713) 353-3980.
End of File
--
Vince Johnson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Cyclops.Smith@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Cyclops Smith)
Subject: Abductor
Date: 9 Mar 93 02:35:26 GMT
I've been scanning this Bulletin Board, and have been touched by the
stories and antidotes revealed by the silicon locutionists utilizing
this service. So touched, in fact, it has inspired me to confess a
horrible factoid. The good news for abductees of unidentified FOs is
that it's true _ they aren't crazy. They have been sucked up into large
crafts and experimented upon. The bad news is that it wasn't an
interplanetary intelligence or little green men. It was me, Jake,
co-owner of Jake's Slightly Used Buicks (SUBs). In the early 80s (the
go-go 80s as some like to call it) we contracted my brother-in-law (who
happens to suffer from hemmorhoids, but that's another story) to conduct
consumer testing on little old ladies and farmers in the midwest. Normal
consumer testing being so time-consuming, we devised an involuntary
system whereby we bludgeon the unsuspecting potential consumer with
rocks, blackjacks or other handy objects, causing them to see bright
lights before passing out. We then stuffed them into our slightly used
buicks (SUBs) and monitered the involuntary responses to the imitation
leather upholstery against their forearms in order to gauge the market
value. We used electrocardioencephalograms as a perfectly harmless
methodology process.
To make sure they misinterpretedc their experience, we implanted a
post-huypnotic suggestion that it was in fact an alien encounter.
We're sorry.
--
Cyclops Smith - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Steve.Gresser@f100.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Gresser)
Subject: Abductor
Date: 10 Mar 93 00:10:00 GMT
> I've been scanning this Bulletin Board, and have been touched by the
> stories and antidotes revealed by the silicon locutionists utilizing
^^^^^^^^^
I think this says it all - anyone else?
--
Steve Gresser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: Richard.Salts@f28.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Richard Salts)
Subject: Fire in the Sky
Date: 11 Mar 93 03:08:48 GMT
Hello All!
Well it seems that the Travis Walton affair is back in the UFO news again and
that the book he wrote is going to be reissued. Perhaps the book that SHOULD
have been reprinted is the volume written by the late Coral and Jim Lorenzen of
what was once the Aerial Phenomena Research Oranization (APRO) called
"Abducted--Confrontations With Beings From Outer Space." Barring the rather
sensationalistic title given to it by the publisher, Chapter VII therein, "The
Walton Affair," is 33 pages of virtual blow-by-blow description by the
Lorenzens of the WHOLE Walton incident from start to a kind of semi-finish.
Prominent among the dramatis personnae of that case is none other than the
Klassmeister himself busy spreading rumors at that time in a attempt to
"discredit" the Walton case even then. and I seem to recognize these being
repeated in the most recent posts here. The Lorenzens quite ably, IMHO, dispel
these suspicions in the book, which, upon my checking with the B. Dalton
bookstore chain, told me that nothing exists in print of any Lorenzen work, let
alone the above book and I have a copy of this in my present possession. It's
an old work, going back to the late '70's when paperbacks were $1.75. That it
is out of print is too bad but maybe, if there is some interest on this board,
I might ask for copyright permission to have this chapter electronically
reproduced and uploaded to this network, and maybe to others, as well so that,
though the original book may be out of print, some chapters may survive to be
read by interested parties later on as to what ACTUALLY HAPPENED in this case.
I said 'semi-finish' above and come to think of it, APRO, and Travis were in
preparation for a set of more acceptable 'lie detector' tests as the chapter
ends and to this day, nothing more is known as to whatever became of these
later efforts. Too bad. Klass goes over the Walton case in his book,
"Abductions--The Dangerous Game" but sheds virtually nothing further on what
happened next, not that I would trust any account written by him . . . .
Rich
--
Richard Salts - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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*******************************************************************************
Submissions abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com
Administrative requests abduct-request@scicom.alphacdc.com
FTP archive grind.isca.uiowa.edu:/info/paranet/abduct
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UUCP gateway {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom
********************End**of**the**Abduction**Newsletter************************
Issue 88 was the last Abduction Digest. In March 1993 the digest was
converted to the newsgroup alt.paranet.abduct. No further digests will
be generated or archived.
Questions or problems should be directed to: "jrblack@isca.uiowa.edu".
(End of abduct/README) (4 April 1993)
~
fnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfbobdfnordfnordfnordfnord
THE CONTROLLERS:
A New Hypothesis of Alien Abduction
by
Martin Cannon
I. Introduction
One wag has dubbed the problem "Terra and the Pirates."
The pirates, ostensibly, are marauders from another solar system; their
victims include a growing number of troubled human beings who insist that
they've been shanghaied by these otherworldly visitors. An outlandish
scenario -- yet through the works of such authors as Budd Hopkins[1] and
Whitley Strieber[2], the "alien abduction" syndrome has seized the public
imagination. Indeed, tales of UFO contact threaten to lapse into fashion-
ability, even though, as I have elsewhere noted[3], they may still inflict a
formidable social price upon the claimant.
Some time ago, I began to research these claims, concentrating my studies
on the social and political environment surrounding these events. As I
studied, the project grew and its scope widened. Indeed, I began to feel as
though I'd gone digging through familiar terrain only to unearth Gomorrah.
These excavations may have disgorged a solution.
THE PROBLEM
Among ufologists, the term "abduction" has come to refer to an infinitely-
confounding experience, or matrix of experiences, shared by a dizzying number
of individuals, who claim that travellers from the stars have scooped them out
of their beds, or snatched them from their cars, and subjected them to
interrogations, quasi-medical examinations, and "instruction" periods.
Usually, these sessions are said to occur within alien spacecraft; frequently,
the stories include terrifying details reminiscent of the tortures inflicted
in Germany's death camps. The abductees often (though not always) lose all
memory of these events; they find themselves back in their cars or beds,
unable to account for hours of "missing time." Hypnosis, or some other
trigger, can bring back these haunted hours in an explosion of recollection --
and as the smoke clears, an abductee will often spot a trail of similar
experiences, stretching all the way back to childhood.
Perhaps the oddest fact of these odd tales: Many abductees, for all their
vividly-recollected agonies, claim to love their alien tormentors. That's
the word I've heard repeatedly: love.
Within the community of "scientific ufologists" -- those lonely, all-too
little-heard advocates of reasonable and open-minded debate on matters
saucerological -- these claims have elicited cautious interest and a commend-
able restraint from conclusion-hopping. Outside the higher realms of
scientific ufology, the situation is, alas, quite different. In the popular
press, in both the "straight" and sensationalist media, within that
journalistic realm where issues are defined and public opinion solidified
(despite a frequently superficial approach to matters of evidence and
investigation) abduction scenarios have elicited two basic reactions: that
of the Believer and the Skeptic.
The Believers -- and here we should note that "Believers" and "abductees"
are two groups whose memberships overlap but are in no way congruent --
accept such stories at face value. They accept, despite the seeming
absurdity of these tales, the internal contradictions, the askew logic of
narrative construction, the severe discontinuity of emotional response to the
actions described. The Believers believe, despite reports that their beloved
"space brothers" use vile and inhuman tactics of medical examination --
senseless procedures most of us (and certainly the vanguard of an advanced
race) would be ashamed to inflict on an animal. The Believers believe,
despite the difficulty of reconciling these unsettling tales with their own
deliriums of benevolent off-worlders.
Occasionally, the rough notes of a rationalization are offered: "The
aliens don't know what they are doing," we hear; or "Some aliens are bad."
Yet the Believers confound their own reasoning when they insist on ascribing
the wisdom of the ages and the beneficence of the angels to their beloved
visitors. The aliens allegedly know enough about our society to go about
their business undetected by the local authorities and the general public;
they communicate with the abductees in human tongue; they concern themselves
with details of the percipients' innermost lives -- yet they remain so
ignorant of our culture as to be unaware of the basic moral precepts concerning
the dignity of the individual and the right to self-determination. Such
dichotomies don't bother the Believers; they are the faithful, and faith is
assumed to have its mysteries. SANCTA SIMPLICITAS.
Conversely, the Skeptics dismiss these stories out of hand. They dismiss,
despite the intriguing confirmatory details: the multiple witness events,
the physical traces left by the ufonauts, the scars and implants left on the
abductees. The skeptics scoff, though the abductees tell stories similar in
detail -- even certain tiny details, not known to the general public.
Philip Klass is a debunker who, through his appearances on such television
programs as NOVA and NIGHTLINE, has been in a position to affect much of the
public debate on UFOs. In his interesting but poorly-documented work on
abductions[4], Klass claims that "abduction" is a psychological disease,
spread by those who write about it. This argument exactly resembles the
professional press-basher's frequent assertion that terrorism metastasizes
through media exposure. Yet for all the millions of words expectorated by
newsfolk on the subject of terrorism, terrorist actions remain quite rare,
as any statistician (though few politicians) will admit, and verifiable
linkage between crimes and their coverage remains to be found. For that
matter, there have been books -- bestsellers, even -- on unicorns and gnomes.
People who claim to see those creatures are few. Abductees are plentiful.
Both Believer and Skeptic, in my opinion, miss the real story. Both make
the same mistake: They connect the abduction phenomenon to the forty-year
history of UFO sightings, and they apply their prejudices about the latter
to the controversy about the former.
At first sight, the link seems natural. Shouldn't our thoughts about
UFOs color our thoughts about UFO abductions?
NO.
They may well be separate issues. Or, rather, they are connected only
in this: The myth of the UFO has provided an effective cover story for an
entirely different sort of mystery. Remove yourself from the Believer/Skeptic
dialectic, and you will see the third alternative.
As we examine this alternative, we will, of necessity, stray far from the
saucers. We must turn our face from the paranormal and concentrate on the
occult -- if, by "occult," we mean SECRET.
I posit that the abductees HAVE been abducted. Yet they are also spewing
fantasy -- or, more precisely, they have been given a set of lies to repeat
and believe. If my hypothesis proves true, then we must accept the following:
The kidnapping is real. The fear is real. The pain is real. The instruction
is real. But the little grey men from Zeti Reticuli are NOT real; they are
constructs, Halloween masks meant to disguise the real faces of the con-
trollers. The abductors may not be visitors from Beyond; rather, they may be
a symptom of the carcinoma which blackens our body politic.
The fault lies not in our stars, but in ourselves.
THE HYPOTHESIS
Substantial evidence exists linking members of this country's intelligence
community (including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Defense Advanvced
Research Projects Agency, and the Office of Naval Intelligence) with the
esoteric technology of MIND CONTROL. For decades, "spy-chiatrists" working
behind the scenes -- on college campuses, in CIA-sponsored institutes, and
(most heinously) in prisons -- have experimented with the erasure of memory,
hypnotic resistance to torture, truth serums, post-hypnotic suggestion, rapid
induction of hypnosis, electronic stimulation of the brain, non-ionizing
radiation, microwave induction of intracerebral "voices," and a host of even
more disturbing technologies. Some of the projects exploring these areas were
ARTICHOKE, BLUEBIRD, PANDORA, MKDELTA, MKSEARCH and the infamous MKULTRA.
I have read nearly every available book on these projects, as well as the
relevant congressional testimony[5]. I have also spent much time in university
libraries researching relevant articles, contacting other researchers (who have
graciously allowed me access to their files), and conducting interviews.
Moreover, I traveled to Washington, DC to review the files John Marks compiled
when he wrote THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE"[6]. These files
include some 20,000 pages of CIA and Defense Department documents, interviews,
scientific articles, letters, etc. The views presented here are the result of
extensive and ongoing research.
As a result of this research, I have come to the following conclusions:
1. Although misleading (and occasionally perjured) testimony before
Congress indicated that the CIA's "brainwashing" efforts met with little
success[7], striking advances were, in fact, made in this field. As CIA
veteran Miles Copeland once admitted to a reporter, "The congressional
subcommittee which went into this sort of thing got only the barest glimpse."
[8]
2. Clandestine research into thought manipulation has NOT stopped, despite
CIA protestations that it no longer sponsors such studies. Victor Marchetti,
14-year veteran of the CIA and author of the renown expose, THE CIA AND THE
CULT OF INTELLIGENCE, confirmed in a 1977 interview that the mind control
research continues, and that CIA claims to the contrary are a "cover story."[9]
3. The Central Intelligence Agency was not the only government agency
involved in this research[10]. Indeed, many branches of our government took
part in these studies -- including NASA, the Atomic Energy Commission, as well
as all branches of the Defense Department.
To these conclusions I would append the following -- NOT as firmly-
established historical fact, but as a working hypothesis and grounds for
investigation:
4. The "UFO abduction" phenomenon MIGHT be a continuation of clandestine
mind control operations.
I recognize the difficulties this thesis might present to those readers
emotionally wedded to the extraterrestrial hypothesis, or to those whose
political WELTANSHAUUNG disallows any such suspicions. Still, the open-
minded student of abductions should consider the possibilities. Certainly,
we are not being narrow-minded if we ask researchers to exhaust ALL terrestrial
explanations before looking heavenward.
Granted, this particular explanation may, at first, seem as bizarre as the
phenomenon itself. But I invite the skeptical reader to examine the work of
George Estabrooks, a seminal theorist on the use of hypnosis in warfare, and
a veteran of Project MKULTRA. Estabrooks once amused himself during a party
by covertly hypnotizing two friends, who were led to believe that the Prime
Minister of England had just arrived; Estabrooks' victims spent an hour
conversing with, and even serving drinks to, the esteemed visitor[11]. For
ufologists, this incident raises an inescapable question: If the Mesmeric arts
can successfully evoke a non-existent Prime Minister, why can't a represent-
ative from the Pleiades be similarly induced?
But there is much more to the present day technology of mind control than
mere hypnosis -- and many good reasons to suspect that UFO abduction accounts
are an artifact of continuing brainwashing/behavior modification experiments.
Moreover, I intend to demonstrate that, by using UFO mythology as a cover
story, the experimenters may have solved the major problem with the work
conducted in the 1950s -- "the disposal problem," i.e., the question of
"What do we do with the victims?"
If, in these pages, I seem to stray from the subject of the saucers, I plead
for patience. Before I attempt to link UFO abductions with mind control
experiments, I must first show that this technology EXISTS. Much of the
forthcoming is an introduction to the topic of mind control -- what it is, and
how it works.
II. The Technology
A BRIEF OVERVIEW
In the early days of World War II, George Estabrooks, of Colgate University,
wrote to the Department of War, describing in breathless terms the possible
uses of hypnosis in warfare[12]. The Army was intrigued; Estabrooks had a
job. The true history of Estabrooks' wartime collaboration with the CID,
FBI[13] and other agencies may never be told: After the war, he burned his
diary pages covering the years 1940-45, and thereafter avoided discussing his
continuing government work with anyone, even close members of the family[14].
Occasionally, he strongly intimated that his work involved the creation of
hypno-programmed couriers and hypnotically-induced split personalities, but
whether he succeeded in these areas remains a controversial point. Neverthe-
less, the eccentric and flamboyant Estabrooks remains a pivotal figure in the
early history of clandestine behavioral research.
Which is not to say that he worked alone. World War II was the first
conflict in which the human brain became a field of battle, where invading
forces were led by the most notable names in psychology and pharmacology. On
both sides, the war spurred furious efforts to create a "truth drug" for use
in interrogating prisoners. General William "Wild Bill" Donovan, director of
the OSS, tasked his crack team -- including Dr. Winifred Overhulser, Dr.
Edward Strecker, Harry J. Anslinger and George White -- to modify human
perception and behavior through chemical means; their "medicine cabinet"
included scopolamine, peyote, barbiturates, mescaline, and marijuana. (This
research had its amusing side: Donovan's "psychic warriors" conducted many
extensive and expensive trials before deciding that the best method of
administering tetrahydrocannibinol, the active ingredient in marijuana, was
via the cigarette. Any jazz musician could have told them as much[15].)
Simultaneously, the notorious NAZI doctors at Dachau experimented with
mescaline as a means of eliminating the victim's will to resist. Jews, slavs,
gypsies, and other "Untermenschen" in the camp were surreptitiously slipped the
drug; later, mescaline was combined with hypnosis[16]. The results of these
tests were made available to the United States after the War. [cf. Operation
PAPERCLIP, which transferred thousands of German and Japanese intelligence
researchers directly into the U.S. intelligence community. "Our Germans are
BETTER than their Germans!" - DR. STRANGELOVE -jpg]
In 1947, the Navy conducted the first known post-war mind control program,
Project CHAPTER, which continued the drug experiments. Decades later,
journalists and investigators still haven't uncovered much information about
this project -- or, indeed, about any of the military's other excursions into
this field. We know that the Army eventually founded operations THIRD CHANCE
and DERBY HAT; other project names remain mysterious, though the existence of
these programs is unquestionable. [? -jpg]
The newly-formed CIA plunged into this cesspool in 1950, with Project
BLUEBIRD, rechristened ARTICHOKE in 1951. To establish a "cover story" for
this research, the CIA funded a propaganda effort designed to convince the
world that the Communist Bloc had devised insidious new methods of re-shaping
the human will; the CIA's own efforts could therefore, if exposed, be explained
as an attempt to "catch up" with Soviet and Chinese work. The primary promoter
of this "line" was one Edward Hunter, a CIA contract employee operating under-
cover as a journalist, and, later, a prominent member of the John Birch
society. (Hunter was an OSS veteran of the China theatre -- the same spawning
grounds which produced Richard Helms, Howard Hunt, Mitch WerBell, Fred
Chrisman, Paul Helliwell and a host of other noteworthies who came to
dominate that strange land where the worlds of intelligence and right-wing
extremism meet[17].) Hunter offered "brainwashing" as the explanation for the
numerous confessions signed by American prisoners of war during the Korean War
and (generally) UN-recanted upon the prisoners' repatriation. These confes-
sions alleged that the United States used germ warfare in the Korean conflict,
a claim which the American public of the time found impossible to accept.
[Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, murdered President Kennedy. -jpg] Many
years later, however, investigative reporters discovered that Japan's germ
warfare specialists (who had wreaked incalculable terror on the conquered
Chinese during WWII) had been mustered into the American national security
apparat -- and that the knowledge gleaned from Japan's horrifying germ
warfare experiments probably WAS used in Korea, just as the "brainwashed"
soldiers had indicated[18]. Thus, we now know that the entire brainwashing
scare of the 1950s constituted a CIA hoax perpetrated upon the American
public: CIA deputy director Richard Helms admitted as much when, in 1963,
he told the Warren Commission that Soviet mind control research consistently
lagged years behind American efforts[19].
When the CIA's mind control program was transferred from the Office of
Security to the Technical Services Staff (TSS) in 1953, the name changed
again -- to MKULTRA[20]. Many consider this wide-ranging "octopus" project --
whose tentacles twined through the corridors of numerous universities and
around the necks of an army of scientists -- the most ominous operation in
CIA's catalogue of atrocity. Through MKULTRA, the Agency created an umbrella
program of a positively Joycean scope, designed to ferret out all possible
means of invading what George Orwell once called "the space between our ears"
(Later still, in 1962, mind control research was transferred to the Office
of Research and Development; project cryptonyms remain unrevealed[21].)
What was studied? Everything -- including hypnosis, conditioning, sensory
deprivation, drugs, religious cults, microwaves, psychosurgery, brain implants,
and even ESP. When MKULTRA "leaked" to the public during the great CIA
investigations of the 1970s, public attention focused most heavily on drug
experimentation and the work with ESP[22]. Mystery still shrouds another area
of study, the area which seems to have most interested ORD: psychoelectronics.
This research may prove key to our understanding of the UFO abduction
phenomenon.
IMPLANTS
Perhaps the most interesting pieces of evidence surrounding the abduction
phenomenon are the intracerebral implants allegedly visible in the X-rays and
MRI scans of many abductees[23]. Indeed, abductees often describe operations
in which needles are inserted into the brain; more frequently still, they
report implantation of foreign objects through the sinus cavities. Many
abduction specialists assume that these intracranial incursions must be the
handiwork of scientists from the stars. Unfortunately, these researchers
have failed to familiarize themselves with certain little-heralded advances
in terrestrial technology.
The abductees' implants strongly suggest a technological lineage which can
be traced to a device known as a "stimoceiver," invented in the late '50s-
early '60s by a neuroscientist named Jose "Bob" Delgado. The stimoceiver is a
miniature depth electrode which can receive and transmit electronic signals
over FM radio waves. By stimulating a correctly-positioned stimoceiver, an
outside operator can wield a surprising degree of control over the subject's
responses.
The most famous example of the stimoceiver in action occurred in a Madrid
bull ring. Delgado "wired" the bull before stepping into the ring, entirely
unprotected. Furious for gore, the bull charged toward the doctor -- then
stopped, just before reaching him. The technician-turned-toreador had halted
the animal by simply pushing a button on a black BoX, held in the hand[24].
Delgado's PHYSICAL CONTROL OF THE MIND: TOWARD A PSYCHOCIVILISED SOCIETY[25]
remains the sole, full-length, popularly-written work on intracerebral implants
and electronic stimulation of the brain (ESB). (The book's ominous title and
unconvincing philosophical rationales for mass mind control prompted an
unfavorable public reaction -- which may have deterred other researchers from
publishing on this theme for a general audience.) While subsequent work has
long since superceded the techniques described in this book, Delgado's
achievements were seminal. His animal and human experiments clearly demon-
strate that the experimenter can electronically induce emotions and behavior:
Under certain conditions, the extremes of temperament -- rage, lust, fatigue,
etc. -- can be elicited by an outside operator as easily as an organist might
call forth a C-major chord.
Delgado writes: "Radio stimulation of different points in the amygdala and
hippocampus in the four patients produced a variety of effects, including
pleasant sensations, elation, deep, thoughtful concentration, odd feelings,
super relaxation, colored visions, and other responses."[26] The evocative
phrase "colored vision" clearly indicates remotely-induced hallucination; we
will detail later how these hallucinations may be "controlled" by an outside
operator.
Speaking in 1966 -- and reflecting research undertaken years previous --
Delgado asserted that his experiments "support the distasteful conclusion that
motion, emotion, and behavior can be directed by electrical forces and that
humans can be controlled like robots by push buttons."[27] He even prophesied
a day when brain control could be turned over to non-human operators, by
establishing two-way radio communication between the implanted brain and a
computer[28].
Of one experimental subject, Delgado notes that "the patient expressed the
successive sensations of fainting, fright and floating around. These
'floating' feelings were repeatedly evoked on different days by stimulation
of the same point..."[29] Ufologists may recognize the similarity of this
sequence of events to abductee reports of the opening minutes of their
experiences[30]. Under subsequent hypnosis, the abductee could be instructed
to misremember the cause of this floating sensation.
In a fascinating series of experiments, Delgado attached the stimoceiver
to the tympanic membrane, thereby transforming the ear into a sort of micro-
phone. An assistant would whisper "How are you?" into the ear of a suitably
"fixed" cat, and Delgado could hear the words over a loudspeaker in the next
room. The application of this technology to the spy trade should be readily
apparent. According to Victor Marchetti, The Agency once attempted a highly-
sophisticated extension of this basic idea, in which radio implants were
attached to a cat's cochlea, to facilitate the pinpointing of specific
conversations, freed from extraneous surrounding noises[31]. Such "advances"
exacerbate the already-imposing level of Twentieth-Century paranoia: Not only
can our phones be tapped and mail checked, but even TABBY may be spying on us!
Yet the ramifications of this technology may go even deeper than Marchetti
indicates. I presume that if a suitably-wired subject's inner ear can be made
into a microphone, it can also be made into a loudspeaker -- one possible
explanation for the "voices" heard by abductees[32]. Indeed, I have personally
viewed a strange, opalescent implant within the ear canal of an abductee. I
see no reason to ascribe this device to alien intrusion -- more than likely,
the "intruders" in this case were the technological inheritors of the Delgado
legacy. Indeed, not many years after Delgado's experiments with the cat,
Ralph Schwitzgebel devised a "bug-in-the-ear" via which the therapist -- odd
term, under the circumstances -- can communicate with his subject[33].
Other researchers have made notable contributions to this field.
Robert G. "Bob" Heath, of Tulane University, who has implanted as many as
125
electrodes in his subjects, achieved his greatest notoriety by attempting to
"cure" homosexuality through ESB. In his experiments, he discovered that he
could control his patients' memory, (a feat which, applied in the ufological
context, may account for the phenomenon of "missing time"); he could also
induce sexual arousal, fear, pleasure, and hallucinations[34].
Heath and another researcher, James Olds[35], have independently illustrated
that areas of the brain in and near the hypothalamus have, when electronically
stimulated, what has been described as "rewarding" and "aversive" effects.
Both animals and men, when given the means to induce their own ESB of the
brain's pleasure centers, will stimulate themselves at a tremendous rate,
ignoring such basic drives as hunger and thirst[36]. (Using fixed electrodes
of his own invention, John C. Lilly had accomplished similar effects in the
early 1950s[37].) Anyone who has studied the abduction phenomenon will find
himself on familiar territory here, for the abductee accounts are replete with
stories of bewildering and inappropriate sexual response countered by extremely
painful stimuli -- operant conditioning, at its most extreme, and most
insidious, for here we see a form of conditioning in which the manipulator
renders himself invisible. Indeed, B.F. Skinner-esque aversive therapy,
remotely appiled, was Heath's prescription for "healing" homosexuality[38].
Ralph Schwitzgebel and his brother Robert have produced a panoply of
devices for tracking individuals over long ranges; they may be considered
the creators of the "electronic house arrest" devices recently approved by
the courts[39]. Schwitzgebel devices could be used for tracking all the
physical and neurological signs of a "patient" within a quarter of a mile[40],
thereby lifting the distance limitations which restricted Delgado.
In Ralph Schwitzgebel's initial work, application of this technology to
ESB seems to have been limited to cumbersome brain implants with protruding
wires. But the technology was soon miniaturized, and a scheme was proposed
whereby radio receivers would be mounted on utility poles throughout a
given city, thereby providing 24-hour-a-day monitoring capability[41]. Like
Heath, Schwitzgebel was much exercised about homosexuality and the use of
intracranial devices to combat sexual deviation. But he has also spoken
ominously about applying his devices to "socially troublesome persons"...
which, of course, could mean anyone[42].
Bryan Robinson, of the Yerkes primate laboratory has conducted fascinating
simian research on the use of remote ESB in a social context. He could cause
mothers to ignore their offspring, despite the babies' cries. He could turn
submission into dominance, and vice-versa[43].
Perhaps the most disturbing wanderer into this mind-field is Joseph A.
Meyer, of the National Security Agency, the most formidable and secretive
component of America's national security complex. Meyer has proposed implant-
ing rougly half of all Americans arrested -- not necessarily convicted --
of any crime; the numbers of "subscribers" (his euphemism) would run into the
tens of millions. "Subscribers" could be monitored continually by computer
wherever they went. Meyer, who has carefully worked out the economics of his
mass-implantation system, asserts that taxpayer liability should be reduced
by forcing subscribers to "rent" the implant from the State. Implants are
cheaper and more efficient than police, Meyer suggests, since the call to crime
is relentless for the poor "urban dweller" -- who, this spook-scientist admits
in a surprisingly candid aside, is fundamentally unnecessary to a post-
industrial economy. "Urban dweller" may be another of Meyer's euphemisms: He
uses New York's Harlem as his model community in working out the details of his
mind-management system[44].
ABDUCTEE IMPLANTS
If we are to take seriously abductee accounts of brain implants, we must
consider the possibility that the implanters, properly perceived, DON'T look
much like the "greys" pictured on Strieber's dustjackets. Instead, the
visitors may resemble Dr. Meyer and his brethren. We would thus have an
explanation for both the reports of abductee brain implants and, as we shall
see, the "scoop marks" and other scars visible on other parts of the abductees'
bodies. We would also have an explanation for the reports of individuals
suffering personality change after contact with the UFO phenomenon.
Skeptics might counter that the time factor of UFO abductions disallows
this possibility. If estimates of "missing time" are correct, the abductions
rarely take longer than one-to-three hours. Wouldn't a brain surgeon,
operating under less-than-ideal conditions (perhaps in a mobile unit) need
more time?
NO -- not if we accept the claims of a Florida doctor named Daniel Man.
He recently proposed a draconian solution to the overblown "missing children
problem," by suggesting a program wherein America's youngsters would be
implanted with tiny transmitters in order to track the children continuously.
Man brags that the operation can be done right in the office -- and would take
less than 20 minutes[45].
Conceivably, it might take a tad longer in the field.
A QUESTION OF TIMING
The history of brain implantation, as gleaned from the open literature, is
certainly disquieting. Yet this history has almost certainly been censored,
and the dates manipulated in a nigh-Orwellian fashion. When dealing with
research funded by the engines of national security, one can never know the
true origin date of any individual scientific advance. However, if we listen
carefully to the scientists who have pioneered this research, we may hear
whispers, faint but unmistakable, hinting that remotely-applied ESB originated
earlier than published studies would indicate.
In his autobiography THE SCIENTIST, John C. Lilly (who would later achieve
a cultish reknown for his work with dolphins, drugs and sensory deprivation)
records a conversation he had with the director of the National Institute
of Mental Health -- in 1953. The director asked Lilly to brief the CIA, FBI,
NSA and the various military intelligence services on his work using electrodes
to stimulate directly the pleasure and pain centers of the brain. Lilly
refused, noting, in his reply:
Dr. Antoine Remond, using our techniques in Paris, has
demonstrated that this method of stimulation of the brain
can be applied to the human without the help of the neuro-
surgeon; he is doing it in his office in Paris without neuro-
surgical supervision. This means that anybody with the proper
apparatus can carry this out on a person covertly, with no
external signs that electrodes have been used on that person.
I feel that if this technique got into the hands of a secret
agency, they would have total control over a human being and
be able to change his beliefs extremely quickly, leaving
little evidence of what they had done[46].
Lilly's assertion of the moral high ground here is interesting. Despite
his avowed phobia against secrecy, a careful reading of THE SCIENTIST reveals
that he continued to do work useful to this country's national security appar-
atus. His sensory deprivation experiments expanded upon the work of ARTICHOKE's
Maitland Baldwin, and even his dolphin research has -- perhaps inadvertently
proved useful in naval warfare[47]. One should note that Lilly's work on
monkeys carried a "secret" classification, and that NIMH was a common CIA
funding conduit[48].
But the most important aspect of Lilly's statement is its date. 1953?
How far back does radio-controlled ESB go? Alas, I have not yet seen Remond's
work -- if it is available in the open literature. In the documents made
available to Marks, the earliest reference to remotely-applied ESB is a 1959
financial document pertaining to MKULTRA subproject 94. The general subproject
descriptions sent to the CIA's financial department rarely contain much
information, and rarely change from year to year, leaving us little idea as to
when this subproject began.
Unfortunately, even the Freedom of Information Act couldn't pry loose much
information on electronic mind control techniques, though we know a great deal
of study was done in these areas. We have, for example, only four pages on
subproject 94 -- by comparison, a veritable flood of documents were released on
the use of drugs in mind control. (Whenever an author tells us that MKULTRA
met with little success, the reference is to drug testing.) On this point, I
must criticize John Marks: His book never mentions that roughly 20-25 percent
of the subprojects are "dark" -- i.e., little or no information was ever made
available, despite lawyers and FOIA requests. Marks seems to feel that the
only information worth having is the information he received. We know,
however, that research into psychoelectronics was extensive indeed, statements
of project goals dating from ARTICHOKE and BLUEBIRD days clearly identify this
area as a high priority. Marks' anonymous informant, jocularly named "Deep
Trance," even told a previous interviewer that, beginning in 1963, CIA and the
military's mind control efforts strongly emphasized electronics[49]. I
therefore assume -- not rashly, I hope -- that the "dark" MKULTRA subprojects
concerned matters such as brain implants, microwaves, ESB, and related
technologies.
I make an issue of the timing and secrecy involved in this research to
underscore three points: 1. We can never know with certainty the true origin
dates of the various brainwashing methods -- often, we discover that techniques
which seem impossibly futuristic actually originated in the 19th century.
(Pioneering ESB research was conducted in 1898, by J.R. ("Bob" Dobbs) Ewald,
professor of physiology at Straussbourg[50].) 2. The open literature almost
certainly gives a bowdlerized view of the actual research. 3. Lavishly-funded
clandestine researchers -- unrestrained by peer review or the need for strict
controls -- can achieve far more rapid progress than scientists "on the
outside."
Potential critics should keep these points in mind should they attempt to
invalidate the "mind control" thesis of UFO abductions by citing an abduction
account which antedates Delgado.
THE QUANDARY
We have amply demonstrated, then, that as far back as the 1960s -- and
possibly earlier still -- scientists have had the capability to create implants
similar to those now purportedly visible in abductee MRI scans. Indeed, we
have no notion just how advanced this technology has become, since the popular
press stopped reporting on brain implantation in the 1970s. The research
has no doubt continued, albeit in a less public fashion. In fact, scientists
such as Delgado have cast their eye far beyond the implants; ESB effects can
now be elicited with microwaves and other forms of electromagnetic radiation,
used with and without electrodes.
So why -- if we take UFO abduction accounts at face value -- are the
"advanced aliens" using an old technology, an EARTH technology, a technology
which may soon be rendered obsolescent, if it hasn't been so rendered already?
I am reminded of the charming anachronisms in the old Flash Gordon serials,
where swords and spaceships clashed continually.
Do they also watch black-and-white television on Zeta Reticuli?
REMOTE HYPNOSIS
Hypnosis provides the (highly controversial) key which opens the door to
many abduction accounts[51]. And obviously, if my thesis is correct, hypnosis
plays a large part in the abduction itself. One thing we know with certainty:
Since the earliest days of project BLUEBIRD, the CIA's spy-chiatrists spent
enormous sums mastering Mesmer's art.
I cannot here give even a brief summary of hypnosis, nor even of the CIA's
studies in this area. (Fortunately, FOIA requests were rather more successful
in shaking loose information on this topic than in the area of psycho-
electronics.) Here, we will concentrate on a particularly intriguing
allegation -- one heard faintly, but persistently, for the past twenty years
by those who would investigate the shadow side of politics.
If this allegation proves true, hypnosis is NOT necessarily a person-to-
person affair.
The abductee -- or the mind control victim -- need not have physical
contact with a hypnotist for hypnotic suggestion to take effect; trance could
be induced, and suggestions made, via the intracerebral transmitters described
above. The concept sounds like something out of Huxley's or Orwell's most
masochistic fantasies. Yet remote hypnosis was first reported -- using
allegedly parapsychological means -- in the early 1930s, by L.L. Vasilev,
Professor of Physiology in the University of Leningrad[52]. Later, other
scientists attempted to accomplish the same goal, using less mystic means.
Over the years, certain journalists have asserted that the CIA has mastered
a technology call RHIC-EDOM. RHIC means "Radio Hypnotic Intracerebral
Control." EDOM stands for "Electronic Dissolution of Memory." Together, these
techniques can -- allegedly -- remotely induce hypnotic trance, deliver
suggestions to the subject, and erase all memory for both the instruction
period and the act which the subject is asked to perform.
RHIC uses the stimoceiver, or a microminiaturized offspring of that tech-
nology to induce a hypnotic state. Interestingly, this technique is also
reputed to involve the use of INTRAMUSCULAR implants, a detail strikingly
reminiscent of the "scars" mentioned in Budd Hopkins MISSING TIME. Apparently,
these implants are stimulated to induce a post-hypnotic suggestion.
EDOM is nothing more than missing time itself -- the erasure of memory from
consciousness through the blockage of synaptic transmission in certain areas of
the brain. By jamming the brain's synapses through a surfeit of acetocholine,
neural transmission along selected pathways can be effectively stilled.
According to the proponents of RHIC-EDOM, acetocholine production can be
affected by electromagnetic means. (Modern research in the psycho-physio-
logical effects of microwaves confirm this proposition.)
Does RHIC-EDOM exist? In our discussion of Delgado's work, I have already
cited a strange little book (published in 1969) titled WERE WE CONTROLLED?,
written by one Lincoln Lawrence, a former FBI agent turned journalist. (The
name is a pseudonym; I know his real identity.) This work deals at length with
RHIC-EDOM; a careful comparison of Lawrence's work with MKULTRA files declas-
sified ten years later indicates a strong possibility that the writer did
indeed have "inside" sources.
Here is how Lawrence describes RHIC in action:
It is the ultra-sophisticated application of post-hypnotic
suggestion TRIGGERED AT WILL [italics in original] by radio
transmission. It is a recurring hypnotic state, re-induced
automatically at intervals by the same radio control. An
individual is brought under hypnosis. This can be done either
with his knowledge -- or WITHOUT it by use of narco-hypnosis,
which can be brought into play under many guises. He is then
programmed to perform certain actions and maintain certain
attitudes upon radio signal[53].
Other authors have mentioned this technique -- specifically Walter Bowart
(in his book OPERATION MIND CONTROL) and journalist James Moore, who, in a
1975 issue of a periodical called MODERN PEOPLE, claimed to have secured a
350-page manual, prepared in 1963, on RHIC-EDOM[54]. He received the manual
from CIA sources, although -- interestingly -- the technique is said to have
originated in the military.
The following quote by Moore on RHIC should prove especially intriguing
to abduction researchers who have confronted odd "personality shifts" in
abductees:
Medically, these radio signals are directed to certain
parts of the brain. When a part of your brain receives a
tiny electrical impulse from outside sources, such as vision,
hearing, etc.,an emotion is produced -- anger at the sight of
a gang of boys beating an old woman, for example. The same
emotion of anger can be created by artificial radio signals
sent to your brain by a controller. You could instantly feel
the same white-hot anger without any apparent reason[55].
Lawrence's sources imparted an even more tantalizing -- and frightening --
revelation:
...there is already in use a small EDOM generator-transmitter
which can be concealed on the body of a person. Contact with
this person -- a casual handshake or even just a touch --
transmits a tiny electronic charge plus an ultra-sonic signal
tone which for a short while will disturb the time orientation
of the person affected[56].
If RHIC-EDOM exists, it goes a long way toward providing an earthbound
rationale for alien abductions -- or, at least, certain aspects of them. The
phenomenon of "missing time" is no longer mysterious. Abductee implants,
both intracerebral and otherwise, are explained. And note the reference to
"recurring hypnotic state, reinduced automatically by the same radio command."
This situation may account for "repeater" abductees who, after their initial
encounter, have regular sessions of "missing time" and abduction -- even while
a bed-mate sleeps undisturbed.
At present, I cannot claim conclusively that RHIC-EDOM is real. To my
knowledge, the only official questioning of a CIA representive concerning
these techniques occurred in 1977, during Senate hearings on CIA drug testing.
Senator Richard Schweicker had the following interchange with Dr. Sidney
Gottlieb, an important MKULTRA administrator:
SCHWEICKER: Some of the projects under MKULTRA involved
hypnosis, is that correct?
GOTTLIEB: Yes.
SCHWEICKER: Did any of these projects involve something
called radio hypnotic intracerebral control, which is a
combination, as I understand it, in layman's terms, of radio
transmissions and hypnosis.
GOTTLIEB: My answer is "No."
SCHWEICKER: None whatsoever?
GOTTLIEB: Well, I am trying to be responsive to the
terms you used. As I remember it, there was a current
interest, running interest, all the time in what effects
people's standing in the field of radio energy have, and
it could easily have been that somewhere in many projects,
someone was trying to see if you could hypnotize someone
easier if he was standing in a radio beam. That would
seem like a reasonable piece of research to do.
Schweicker went on to mention that he had heard testimony that radar (i.e.,
microwaves) had been used to wipe out memory in animals; Gottlieb responded,
"I can believe that, Senator."[57]
Gottlieb's blandishments do not comfort much. For one thing, the good
doctor did not always provide thoroughly candid testimony. (During the same
hearing he averred that 99 percent on the CIA's research had been openly
published; if so, why are so many MKULTRA subprojects still "dark," and why
does the Agency still go to great lengths to protect the identities of its
scientists?[58]) We should also recognize that the CIA's operations are
compartmentalized on a "need-to-know" basis; Gottlieb may not have had access
to the information requested by Schweicker. Note that the MKULTRA rubric
circumscribed Gottlieb's statement: RHIC-EDOM might have been the focus of
another program. (There were several others: MKNAOMI, MKACTION, MKSEARCH,
etc.) Also keep in mind the revelation by "Deep Trance" that the CIA
concentrated on psychoelectronics AFTER the termination of MKULTRA in 1963.
Most significantly: RHIC-EDOM is described by both Lawrence and Moore as a
product of MILITARY research; Gottlieb spoke only of matters pertaining to CIA.
He may thus have spoken truthfully -- at least in a strictly technical sense --
while still misleading the Congressional interlocutors.
Personally, I believe that the RHIC-EDOM story deserves a great deal of
further research. I find it significant that when Dr. Petter Lindstrom
examined X-rays of Robert Naesland, a Swedish victim of brain-implantation, the
doctor authoritatively cited WERE WE CONTROLLED? in his letter of response[59].
This is the same Dr. Lindstrom noted for his pioneering use of ultrasonics in
neurosurgery[60]. Lincoln Lawrence's book has received a strong endorsement
indeed.
Bowart's OPERATION MIND CONTROL contains a significant interview with an
intelligence agent knowledgeable in these areas. Granted, the reader has every
right to adopt a skeptical attitude toward information culled from anonymous
sources; still, one should note that this operative's statements confirm, in
pertinent part, Lawrence's thesis[61].
Most importantly: The open literature on brain-wave entrainment and the
behavioral effects of electromagnetic radiation substantiates much of the RHIC-
EDOM story -- as we shall see.
THAT'S ENTRAINMENT
Robert Anton Wilson, an author with a devoted cult following, recently has
taken to promoting a new generation of "mind machines" designed to promote
creativity, stimulate learning, and alter consciousness -- i.e., provide a
drug-less high. Interestingly, these machines can also induce "Out-of-Body-
Experiences," in which the percipient mentally "travels" to another location
while his body remains at rest[62]. This rapidly-developing technology has
spawned a technological equivalent to the drug culture; indeed, the aficionados
of the electronic buzz even have their own magazine, REALITY HACKERS. [Now
defunct. -jpg] I strongly suspect that we will hear much of these machines in
the future.
One such device is called the "hemi-synch." This headphone-like invention
produces slightly different frequences in each ear; the brain calculates the
difference between these frequencies, resulting in a rhythm known as the
"binaural beat." The brain "entrains" itself to this beat -- that is, the
subject's EEG slows down or speeds up to keep pace with its electronic
running partner[63].
The brain has a "beat" of its own.
This rhythm was first discovered in 1924 by the German psychiatrist Hans
Berger, who recorded cerebral voltages as part of a telepathy study[64]. He
noted two distinct frequencies: alpha (8-13 cycles per second), associated
with a relaxed, alert state, and beta (14-30 cycles per second), produced
during states of agitation and intense mental concentration. Later, other
rhythms were noted, which are particularly important for our present purposes:
theta (4-7 cycles per second), a hypnogogic state, and delta (.5 to 3.5 cycles
per second), generally found in sleeping subjects[65].
The hemi-synch -- and related mind-machines -- can produce alpha or theta
waves, on demand, according to the operator's wishes. A suitably-entrained
brain is much more responsive to suggestion, and is even likely to experience
vivid hallucinations.
I have spoken to several UFO abductees who describe a "stereophonic sound"
effect -- EXACTLY SIMILAR TO THAT PRODUCED BY THE HEMI-SYNCH -- preceding many
"encounters." Of course, one usually administers the hemi-synch via head-
phones, but I see no reason why the effect cannot be transmitted via the above-
described stimoceiver. Again, I remind the reader of the abductee with an
implant just inside her ear canal.
There's more than one way to entrain a brain. Michael Hutchison's excellent
book MEGA BRAIN details the author's personal experiences with many such
devices -- the Alpha-stim, TENS, the Synchro-energizer, Tranquilite, etc. He
recounts dazzling, Dali-esque hallucinations, as a result of using this mind-
expanding technology; moreover, he offers a seductive argument that these
devices may represent a true breakthrough in consciousness-control, thereby
fulfilling the dashed dream of the hallucinogenic '60s.
I wish to avoid a knee-jerk Luddite response to these fascinating wonder-
boxes. At the same time, I recognize the dangers involved. What about the
possibility of an outside operator literally "changing our minds" by altering
our brainwaves without our knowledge or permission? If these machines can
induce a hypnotic state, what's to stop a skilled hypnotist from making use
of this state?
Granted, most of these devices require some physical interaction with the
subject. But a tool called the Bio-Pacer can, according to its manufacturer,
produce a number of mood altering frequencies -- WITHOUT attachment to the
subject. Indeed, the Bio-Pacer III (a high-powered version) can affect an
entire room. This device costs $275, according to the most recent price
sheet available[66]. What sort of machine might $27,500 buy? Or $275,000?
What effects, what ranges might a million-dollar machine be capable of?
The military certainly has that sort of money.
And they're certainly interested in this sort of technology, according to
Michael Hutchison. His interview with an informant named Joseph Light elicited
some particularly provocative revelations. According to Light:
There are important elements in the scientific community,
powerful people, who are very much interested in these areas...
but they have to keep most of their work secret. Because as
soon as they start to publish some of these sensitive things,
they have problems in their lives. You see, they work on
research grants, and if you follow the research being done,
you find that as soon as these scientists publish something
about this, their research funds are cut off. There are areas
in bioelectric research where very simple techniques and
devices can have mind-boggling effects. Conceivably, if you
have a crazed person with a bit of a technical background, he
can do a lot of damage[67].
This last statement is particularly evocative. In 1984, a violent neo-NAZI
group called The Order (responsible for the murder of talk-show host Alan Berg)
established contact with two government scientists engaged in clandestine
research to project chemical imbalances and render targeted individuals docile
via certain frequencies of electronic waves. For $100,000 the scientists were
willing to deliver this information[68].
Thus, at least one group of crazed individuals almost got the goods.
WAVE YOUR BRAIN GOODBYE
Every Senator and Congressional representative has a "wavie" file. So do
many state representatives. Wavies have even pled their case to private
institutions such as the Christic Institute[69].
And who are the wavies?
They claim to be victims of clandestine bombardment with non-ionizing
radiation -- or microwaves. They report sudden changes in psychological
states, alteration of sleep patterns, intracerebral voices and other sounds,
and physiological effects. Most people never realize how many wavies there are
in this country. I've spoken to a number of wavies myself.
Are these troubled individuals seeking an exterior rationale for their
mental problems? Maybe. Indeed, I'm sure that such is the case in many
instances. But the fact is that the literature on the behavioral effects of
microwaves, extra-low-frequencies (ELF) and ultra-sonics is such that we
cannot blithely dismiss ALL such claims.
For decades, American science and industry tried to convince the population
that microwaves could have no adverse effects on human beings at sub-thermal
levels -- in other words, the attitude was, "If it can't burn you, it can't
hurt you." This approach became increasingly difficult to defend as reports
mounted of microwave-induced physiological effects. Technicians described
"hearing" certain radar installations; users of radar telescopes began
developing cataracts at an appallingly high rate[70]. The Soviets had long
recognized the strange and sometimes subtle effects of these radio frequencies,
which is why their exposure standards have always been much stricter.
Soviet microwave bombardment of the U.S. Embassy in Moscow prompted the
Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency's Project PANDORA (later renamed),
whose ostensible goal was to determine whether these pulsations (reportedly
10 cycles per second, which puts them in the alpha range) could be used for the
purposes of mind control. I suspect that the "war on Tchaikowsky Street," as
I call it[71], was used, at least in part, as a cover story for DARPA mind
control research, and that the stories floated in the news (via, for example,
Jack Anderson's column) about Soviet remote brainwashing served the same
propaganda purposes as did the bleatings of Edward Hunter during the 1950s.[72]
What can low-level microwaves do to the mind?
According to a DIA report released under the Freedom of Information Act[73],
microwaves can induce metabolic changes, alter brain functions, and disrupt
behavior patterns. PANDORA discovered that pulsed microwaves can create leaks
in the blood/brain barrier, induce heart seizures, and create behavioral
disorganization[74]. In 1970, a RAND Corporation scientist reported that
microwaves could be used to promote insomnia, fatigue, irritability, memory
loss, and hallucinations[75].
Perhaps the most significant work in this area has been produced by Dr. W.
Ross Adey at the University of Southern California. He determined that
behavior and emotional states can be altered without electrodes -- simply by
placing the subject in an electromagnetic field. By directing a carrier
frequency to stimulate the brain and using amplitude modulation to "shape" the
wave into a mimicry of a desired EEG frequency, he was able to impose a 4.5
cps theta rhythm on his subjects -- a frequency which he previously measured
in the hippocampus during avoidance learning. Thus, he could externally
condition the mind towards an aversive reaction[76]. (Adey has also done
extensive work on the use of electrodes in animals[77].) According to another
prominent microwave scientist, Allen Frey, other frequencies could -- in
animal studies -- induce docility[78]. [cf USP #3,884,218 by Robert ("Bob")
Monroe, METHOD OF INDUCING AND MAINTAINING VARIOUS STAGES OF SLEEP IN THE
HUMAN BEING, granted 20 May 1975; ABSTRACT: A method of inducing sleep in the
human being wherein an audio signal is generated comprising a familiar pleasing
repetitive sound modulated by an EEG sleep pattern. -jpg]
The controversial researcher Andrijah Puharich asserts that "a weak (1 mW)
4 Hz magnetic sine wave will modify human brain waves in 6 to 10 seconds. The
psychological effects of a 4 Hz sine magnetic wave are negative -- causing
dizzyness, nausea, headache, and can lead to vomiting." Conversely, an 8 Hz
magnetic sine wave has beneficial effects[79]. Though some writers question
Puharich's integrity (perhaps correctly, considering his involvement in the
confused tale of Uri Geller), his claims here seem in line with the findings of
less-flamboyant experimenters.
As investigative journalist Anne Keeler writes:
Specific frequencies at low intensities can predictably
influence sensory processes...pleasantness-unpleasantness,
strain-relaxation, and excitement-quiescence can be created
with the fields. Negative feelings and avoidance are strong
biological phenomena and relate to survival. Feelings are
the true basis of much "decision-making" and often occur as
subthreshold [i.e. subliminal -jpg] impressions...Ideas
INCLUDING NAMES [my italics] [Cannon's italics -jpg] can be
synchronized with the feelings that the fields induce[80].
Adey and compatriots have compiled an entire library of frequencies and
pulsation rates which can affect the mind and nervous system. Some of these
effects can be extremely bizarre. For example, engineer Tom Jarski, in an
attempt to replicate the seminal work of F. Cazzamali, found that a particular
frequency caused a ringing sensation in the ears of his subjects -- who felt
strangely compelled to BITE the experimenters![81]. On the other hand, the
diet-conscious may be intrigued by the finding that rats exposed to ELF waves
failed to gain weight normally[82].
For our present purposes, the most significant electromagnetic research
findings concern microwave signals modulated by hypnoidal EEG frequencies.
Microwaves can act much like the "hemi-synch" device previously described --
that is, they can entrain the brain to theta rhythms[83]. I need not emphasize
the implications of remotely synchronizing the brain to resonate at a frequency
conducive to sleep, or to hypnosis.
Trance may be remotely induced -- but can it be directed? Yes. Recall the
intracerebral voices mentioned earlier in our discussion of Delgado. The same
effect can be produced by "the wave." Frey demonstrated in the early 1960s
that microwaves could produce booming, hissing, buzzing, and other intra-
cerebral static (this phenomenon is now called "the Frey effect"); in 1973,
Dr. Joseph Sharp, of the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, expanded on
Frey's work in an experiment where the subject -- in this case, Sharp himself--
"heard" and understood spoken words delivered via a pulsed-microwave analog of
the speaker's sound vibrations[84].
Dr. Robert Becker comments that "Such a device has obvious applications in
covert operations designed to drive a target crazy with 'voices' or deliver
undetectable instructions to a programmed assassin."[85] In other words, we
now have, AT THE PUSH OF A BUTTON, the technology either to inflict an
electronic GASLIGHT -- or to create a true MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE. Indeed, the
former capability could effectively disguise the latter. Who will listen to
the victims, when electronically-induced hallucinations they recount exactly
parallel the classical signals of paranoid schizophrenia and/or temporal lobe
epilepsy?
Perhaps the most ominous revelations, however, concern the mysterious work
of J.F. "BoB" Schapitz, who in 1974 filed a plan to explore the interaction of
radio frequencies and hypnosis. He proposed the following:
In this investigation it will be shown that the spoken
word of the hypnotist may be conveyed by modulated electro-
magnetic energy DIRECTLY INTO THE SUBCONSCIOUS PARTS OF THE
HUMAN BRAIN [my italics] -- i.e., without employing any
technical devices for receiving or transcoding the messages
and without the person exposed to such influence having a
chance to control the information input consciously.
He outlined an experiment, innocent in its immediate effects yet chilling
in its implications, whereby subjects would be implanted with the subconscious
suggestion to leave the lab and buy a particular item; this action would be
triggered by a certain cue word or action. Schapitz felt certain that the
subjects would rationalize the behavior -- in other words, the subject would
seize upon any excuse, however thin, to chalk up his actions to the working of
free will[86]. His instincts on this latter point coalesce perfectly with
findings of professional hypnotists[87].
Schapitz's work was funded by the Department of Defense. Despite FOIA
requests, the results have never been publicly revealed[88].
FINAL THOUGHTS ON "THE WAVE"
I must again offer a caveat about possible disparities between the
"official" record of electromagnetism's psychological effects and the hidden
history. Once more, we face a question of timing. How long ago did this
research REALLY begin?
In the eary years of this century, Nikola Tesla seems to have stumbled
upon certain of the behavioral effects of electromagnetic exposure[89].
Cazamalli, mentioned earlier, conducted his studies in the 1930s. In 1934,
E.L. Chaffe and R.U. Light published a paper on "A Method for the Remote
Control of Electrical Stimulation of the Nervous System."[90] From the very
beginning of their work with microwaves, the Soviets explored the more subtle
physiological effects of electromagnetism -- and despite the bleatings of
certain right-wing alarmists[91] that an "electromagnetic gap" separates us
from Soviet advances, East European literature in this area has been closely
monitored for decades by the West. ARTICHOKE/BLUEBIRD project outlines,
dating from the early 1950s, prominently mention the need to explore all
possible uses of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Another point worth mentioning concerns the combination of EMR and miniature
brain electrodes. The father of the stimoceiver, Dr. J.M.R. "Bob" Delgado, has
recently conducted experiments in which monkeys are exposed to electromagnetic
fields, thereby eliciting a wide range of behavioral effects -- one monkey
might fly into a volcanic rage while, just a few feet away, his simian partner
begins to nod off. Fascinatingly, when monkeys with brain implants felt "the
wave," the effects were greatly intensified. Apparently, these tiny electrodes
can act as AMPLIFIERS of the electromagnetic effect[92].
This last point is important to our "alien abduction" thesis. Critics
might counter that any burst of microwave energy powerful enough to have truly
remote effects would probably also create a thermal reaction. That is, if a
clandestine operator propagated a "wave" from outside an abductee's bedroom
(say, from a low-flying helicopter, or from a truck travelling alongside the
subject's car), the power necessary to do the job might be such that the
microwave would cook the target before it got a chance to launder his thoughts.
Our abductee would end up like the victim of the microwave "hit" in the finale
of Jerzy Kozinsky's COCKPIT.
It's a fair criticism. But Delgado's work may give us our solution. Once
an abductee has been implanted -- and if we are to trust hypnotic regression
accounts of abductees at all, the first implanting session may occur in
childhood -- the chip-in-the-brain would act an an intensifier of the signal.
Such an individual could have any number of "UFO" experiences while his or her
bed partner dozes comfortably.
Furthermore, recent reports indicate that a "waver" can achieve pinpoint
accuracy without the use of Delgado-style implants. In 1985, volunteers at the
Midwest Research Institute in Kansas City, Missouri, were exposed to microwave
beams as part of an experiment sponsored by the Department of Energy and the
New York State Department of Health. As THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC[93] described the
experiment, "A matched control group sat IN THE SAME ROOM without being
bombarded by non-ionizing radiation." [My italics.] Apparently, one can focus
"the wave" quite narrowly -- a fact which has wide implications for abductees.
III. Applications
So we now have some idea of the tools available to the "spy-chiatrists."
How have these tools been used?
This question necessarily involves some detective work. The Central
Intelligence Agency, under duress, provided some, though not enough, documen-
tation of its efforts to commandeer "the space between our ears." We know that
these efforts were extensive, long-term, and at least partially successful. We
know also that these experiments used human subjects. But who? When?
One paradox of this line of inquiry is that, for many readers, the victims
elicit sympathy only insofar as they remain anonymous. Intellectually, we
realize that MKULTRA and its allied projects must have affected hundreds,
probably thousands, of individuals. Yet we react with deep suspicion
whenever one of these individuals steps forward and identifies himself, or
whenever an independent investigator argues that mind control has directed some
newsworthy person's otherwise inexplicable actions. Where, the skeptic may
rightfully ask, is the documentation supporting such accusations? Most of the
MKULTRA "paper trail" was (allegedly) burnt at Richard Helms' order; what's
left has been censored, leaving black ink smudges wherever the names originally
appeared. Claimed mind control victims can, for the most part, only give us
testimony -- and how reliable can such testimony be, especially in light of the
fact that one purpose of MKULTRA was to induce insanity? Anyone asserting that
he was victimized by the program might well be seeking an extrinsic excuse for
his own psychopathology. If you say that you are a manufactured madman, you
were probably mad to begin with: Catch 22.
When John Marks wrote THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE" he received
numerous letters from people insisting that they had been drugged, "waved," or
otherwise abused by the CIA or the military. Most of these communications went
directly into his crank file. Perhaps many deserved that destination; I know
of at least one that did not[94].
Marks did, however, devote much attention to Val Orlikov, a former "patient"
of perhaps the most notorious figure in the annals of American medical crime:
Dr. Ewen ("BoB") Cameron, a CIA-funded scientist heading the Allan Memorial
Institute at McGill University, Montreal, Canada. Cameron, a highly-respected
mental health researcher[95], experimented with a technique he called "psychic
driving," a brainwashing program which involved inflicting upon a subject an
endless tape loop blaring selected messages, 16-to-24 hours a day, combined
with massive electroshock and LSD. The project's "guinea pigs" were patients
who had come to Allan Memorial with relatively minor psychological complaints.
Cameron's experiments failed and his theories were discredited, which may
explain why the CIA and its apologists now feel relatively comfortable
discussing the Frankensteinian efforts at Allan Memorial, as opposed to more
successful work elsewhere.
Orlikov's testimony has received much respectful attention from those
writers who have examined MKULTRA, and correctly so. When I studied the files
at the National Security Archives, I was particularly keen to read her original
letters to John Marks, for these pages had led to the unmasking of an
especially heinous CIA project. The letters, interestingly enough, proved just
as vague, disjointed, and bizarre as similar correspondence which researchers
routinely dismiss. Orlikov can't be blamed for the hazy nature of her
recollections; a certain amount of fog is to be expected, given the nature of
the crime perpetrated against her. The important point is that her story,
ultimately, was found to be true. All of which leads me to wonder: Why did
HER claims prompt investigation when those of others prompt only dismissal?
Perhaps the answer lies in the fact that Orlikov's husband became a Canadian
Member of Parliament. Any victims of CIA experimentation who wish to be taken
seriously ought, perhaps, first make sure to marry well.
Of course, we can easily forgive previous writers and readers whose
researches into MKULTRA have been biased in favor of complacency[96]. But we
can't let this natural prejudice cripple our present investigation. Let us
examine, then, a few of the "horror stories" from the mind control literature
and highlight possible correlations to abductee testimony.
PALLE HARDRUP'S "GUARDIAN ANGEL"
As mentioned previously, I have not delved much into the subject of hypnosis
in this paper -- primarily because of space and time limitations, but also
because discussions of the possibilities of hypnosis PER SE tend to cloud the
issue of its use in conjunction with the above-mentioned electronic techniques.
Obviously, however, hypnosis is a major weapon in the mind controller's
armament; in a forthcoming full-length work, I intend to deal with this subject
at much greater length.
Needless to say, one of the primary objectives of MKULTRA and related
projects was to determine whether one could hypnotically induce someone to
commit an anti-social act. This possibility remains one of the most hotly-
debated issues in hypnosis, for conventional wisdom asserts that no individual
can be hypnotized to commit an action which violates his interior moral code.
Martin Orne, editor of the presitigious INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF CLINICAL AND
EXPERIMENTAL HYPNOSIS agrees with this axiom[97], and he is in a position to
codify much of the established view on this topic. Orne, however, is a
veteran of MKULTRA, and furthermore seems to have lied -- at least in his
original communications -- to author John Marks about his witting involvement
in subproject 94[98]. While I respect much of Orne's ground-breaking work,
his pronouncements do not hold, for this layman, an Olympian unassailability.
To be sure, many other hypnosis experts, untainted by Company connections,
also discount the possibility that anti-social actions can be induced. But a
number of highly-experienced professionals -- including Milton Kline, William
Kroger, George Estabrooks, John Watkins, and Herbert Spiegel -- have argued
that such actions can, at least to some degree, be elicited by an outside
manipulator.
Occasionally, claims of hypnotically-induced anti-social behavior find
their way into the courtroom; one such case, which led to the incarceration of
the hypnotist, was the Palle Hardrup affair. This incident occurred in
Denmark in 1951[99]. Palle Hardrup robbed a bank, killing a guard in the
process, and later claimed that he had been instructed to do so by the
hypnotist Bjorn Nielsen. Nielsen eventually confessed to having engineered
the crime as a test of his hypnotic abilities.
The most significant aspect of this incident concerns the "pose" Nielsen
adopted to work his malicious designs. During the hypnosis sessions, Nielsen
hypnotically suggested that he was Hardrup's "guardian angel," represented
by the letter X. Hardrup testified that "There is another room next door
where Nielsen and I go and talk on our own. It is there that my guardian
spirit usually comes and talks to me. Nielsen says that X has a task for me."
One of these tasks was arranging for Hardrup's girlfriend to have sex with
the hypnotist. The other tasks, he mentioned, included robbery and murder.
Nielsen convinced his victim that "X" wanted the robbery funds to be used for
worthwhile political goals. The end, Hardrup was told, justified the means.
Compare this scenario to that encountered in the typical contactee case,
in which alien "guardians" convince their victims/subjects that the encounter
will eventually serve some unspecified "higher purpose." Indeed, in my
interviews with abductees who have established a "long-term" relationship with
their visitors, I have found that some of them originally believed themselves
in contact with Hardrup-like angelic guardians. Only in recent years was the
"angel" pose discarded and the true "alien" form revealed.
Thus we have one possible means of overcoming the proposition that hypnosis
cannot induce anti-social behavior. If a hypnotist lacks scruples, and has
access to a particularly susceptible subject, he can induce a MISPERCEIVED
REALITY. Actions which we would abhor in an everyday context become acceptable
in specialized circumstances: A citizen who could never commit murder on a
surburban street might, if drafted into an army, kill on the field of battle.
In hypnosis, the mind becomes that battlefield. In the words of Dr. John
Watkins,
We behave on the basis of our perceptions. If our perceptions
of a situation can be altered so as to cause us to misconstrue it,
or to develop a false belief, then our behavior in relation to it
will be drastically altered. It is precisely in the area of
changing perceptions that the hypnotic modality demonstrates its
most powerful effects. Hallucinations both under hypnosis, and
posthypnotic, can easily be induced in the suggestible subject.
He can be made to ignore painful stimuli, be apparently unable
to hear loud sounds, AND "SEE" INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE NOT PRESENT
[my italics]. Moreover, attitudes and beliefs can be initiated
in him which are quite abnormal and often contrary to those
which he previously held[100].
If traditional hypnosis, unaided, can achieve such changes in perception,
one can only imagine the possibilities inherent in the combination of hypnotic
techniques with the psychoelectronic research previously described.
Scientists such as Orne and Milton Erickson[101] have taken issue with
Watkins' assertions. But the Hardrup case would appear to bear Watkins out.
If someone can be convinced that he, like Jeanne D'Arc, acts under the
influence of a supernatural higher power, then previously unthinkable
capabilitites may be evinced and "impossible" actions carried forth. Indeed,
when we consider the extreme personality changes -- and occasionally, the
heinous actions, elicited by leaders of certain cults, and occult groups[102],
we understand the desirability of installing a hypnotic "cover story" within a
supernatural matrix. People will do for God -- or the Devil, or the Space
Brothers -- what they would not do otherwise.
The date of the Hardrup affair corresponds to the institution of BLUEBIRD/
ARTICHOKE; it doesn't require much imagination to see how this case could have
served as a model to the scientists researching those and subsequent projects.
SCREEN MEMORY
According to declassified documents in the Marks files, a major difficulty
faced by the MKULTRA researchers concerned the "disposal problem." What to do
with the victims of CIA-sponsored electroshock, hypnosis, and drug experiment-
ation? The Company resorted to distressing, but characteristic, tactics: They
disposed of their human guinea pigs by incarcerating them in insane asylums, by
performing icepick lobotomies, and by ordering "executive actions."[103]
A more sophisticated solution had to be found. One of the goals of the
CIA's mind control efforts was the erasure of memory via hypnosis (and drugs,
electronics, lobotomies, etc.); not only would this hide what occurred during
the experimental indoctrination/programming sessions, it would prove useful in
the field. "Amnesia was a big goal," confirms Victor Marchetti, who points out
its usefulness in dealing with contract agents: "After you've done it, the
agent doesn't even know what he's done...you send him in, he does the job.
When he comes out, you clean his head out."[104]
The big problem: Despite hypnotically-induced amnesia, there would be memory
leaks -- snippets of the repressed material would arise spontaneously, in
dreams, as flashbacks, etc. A proposed solution: Give the subject a "screen
memory," a false story; thus, even if he starts to recall the material, he will
recall it incorrectly.
Even the conservative Dr. Orne notes that:
A S [subject] who is able to develop good posthypnotic amnesia
will also respond to suggestions to remember events which did not
actually occur. On awakening, he will fail to recall the real
events of the trance and will instead recall the suggested events.
If anything, this phenomenon is easier to produce than total
amnesia, perhaps because it eliminates the subjective feeling of
an empty space in memory.[105]
Not only would the screen memories fill in the uncomfortable blanks in the
subjects' recollection, they would protect against revelation. One fear of
the MKULTRA scientists was that a hypno-programmed individual used as, say, a
courier, could be un-programmed by another hypnotist, perhaps working for the
enemy. Thus, the MKULTRA scientists decided to instill multiple personalities
-- multiple cover stories, if you will -- to confuse any "unauthorized"
hypnotist.[106]
One case using this technique centered on an assassin named Luis Castillo,
who, after his capture in the Philippines, was extensively de-briefed and
studied by experts in the employ of the National Bureau of Investigation, that
country's equivalent to our FBI. Castillo was discovered to have had at least
FOUR separate personalities hypnotically instilled; each personality could be
triggered by a specific cue. In one state, he claimed to be Sgt. Manuel Angel
Ramirez, of the Strategic Air Tactical Command in South Vietnam; supposedly,
"Ramirez" was the illegitimate son of a certain pipe-smoking, highly-placed CIA
official whose initials were A.D.[107] Another personality claimed to be one
of John F. Kennedy's assassins.
The main hypnotist involved with this case labelled these hypnotic alter-
egos "Zombie states." The report on the case stated that "The Zombie pheno-
menon referred to here is a somnambulistic behavior displayed by the subject
in a conditioned response to a series of words, phrases, and statements,
apparently unknown to the subject during his normal waking state."
Upon Castillo's repatriation to the United States, the FBI claimed that he
had fabricated the story. In his book OPERATION MIND CONTROL, Walter Bowart
makes a convincing case against the FBI's claims. Certainly, many aspects of
the Castillo affair argue for his sincerity -- including his hypnotically-
induced insensitivity to pain[108], his maintenance of the story (or stories)
even when severly inebriated, and his apparently programmed suicide attempts.
If Castillo told the truth, as I believe he did, then he manifested both
hypnotically-induced multiple personality and pseudomemory. The former remains
controversial; the latter has been repeatedly replicated in experimental
situations[109].
This point is vitally important for students of the abduction phenomenon.
We CANNOT assume the accuracy of abduction descriptions given during subsequent
hypnotic regression. Moreover, we cannot even assume the accuracy of spon-
taneously-arising recollections (i.e., abduction memories not elicited through
hypnotic regression). Indeed, responsible skeptics have argued that hypnotic
regression may prove inadvertently harmful, in that it may lock in place a
false remembrance. (Note, however, that other psychiatric professionals
consider hypnotic regression the best technique, however flawed, in unlocking
amnesia[110]. For my part, I maintain an ambivalent and cautious attitude
toward the use of hypnosis in abductee work.)
Granted, it is all too easy for the debunkers to cry "confabulation" to
dismiss hypnotic testimony which does not conform to our preconceptions about
the possible; I do not intend to make this same error. Whenever skeptics
offer the phenomenon of pseudomemory to rationalize abduction claims, they cite
experimental situations in which PSEUDOMEMORY WAS ORIGINALLY CREATED BY A
HYPNOTIST[111]. These experiments can not be cited as proof that an individual
abductee spontaneously conjured up a fantasy (which just happens to correspond
to the details of hundreds of similar "fantasies"). Rather, laboratory studies
of pseudomemory creation prove MY point: Pseudomemory can be induced BY
PREVIOUS HYPNOSIS[112].
In other words, an abductee may talk of aliens -- when the reality was
something else entirely.
In correspondence with me, a noted abduction researcher wrote of an instance
in which an abductee recounted seeing a helicopter during his experience; as
the abductee testimony progressed, the helicopter turned into a UFO. During one
of the (quite few) regression sessions I attended, I heard an exactly similar
narrative. Hopkins would argue that the helicopter was a "screen memory"
hiding the awful reality of the UFO encounter. But does Occam's razor really
cut that way? Shouldn't we also consider the possibility that the object in
question really WAS a helicopter -- which the abductee was instructed to recall
as a UFO?
THE SUPER SPY
Among the released BLUEBIRD/ARTICHOKE/MKULTRA papers was the following
handwritten memorandum, unsigned and undated:
I have developed a technic which is safe and secure (free
from international censorship). It has to do with the
conditioning of our own people. I can accomplish this as a
one-man job.
The method is the production of hypnosis by means of
simple oral medication. Then (with NO further medication)
the hypnosis is re-enforced daily during the following three
or four days.
Each individual is conditioned against revealing any
information to an enemy, even though subjected to hypnosis
or drugging. If preferable, he may be conditioned to give
FALSE information rather than NO information.
In the margin of this document, one of Marks' assistants wrote, "Is this
Wendt?" The reference here is to G. Richard ("BoB") Wendt, a professor
employed by project CHATTER who, in 1951, led both his Naval employers and the
CIA on a mind control merry-goose-chase, when an experiment similar to that
described above failed to produce results[113]. Even if the above memorandum
DOES describe an operational failure (and the tactics described in this memo
do not seem very feasible to me), we should not rest complacent. We now know
that, in at least ONE case, more sophisticated techniques made the above
scenario a reality.
I refer to the case of Candy Jones.
Her story has filled at least one book[114] and ought, one day, to give rise
to another. Obviously, I cannot here give all the details of this fascinating
and frightening narrative. But a precis is mandatory.
Ms. Jones (born Jessica Wilcox) achieved star status as a model during
World War II, and later established her own modelling agency. An FBI man
requested her to allow her place of business to be used as a "mail drop" for
the Bureau and "another government agency" (presumably, the CIA); Candy, deeply
patriotic, accepted the proposition gladly. Toiling on the fringes of the
clandestine world, Candy eventually came into contact with a "Dr. Gilbert
Jensen," who worked, in turn, with a "Dr. Marshall Burger." (Both names are
pseudonyms.) Unknown to her, these doctors had been employed as "spy-
chiatrists" by the CIA. Using a job interview as a cover, Jensen induced
hypnosis, found Candy to be a particularly responsive subject -- and proceeded
to use her as other scientists would use a rhesus monkey. She became a test
subject for the CIA's mind control program.
Her job -- insofar as it is known -- was to provide a clandestine courier
service[115]. Estabrooks had outlined the basic idea years earlier: Induce
hypnosis via a disguised technique, give the messenger information to
memorize, hypnotically "erase" the message from conscious memory, and install
a post-hypnotic suggestion that the message (now buried within the sub-
conscious) will be brought forth only upon a specific cue. If the hypnotist
can create such a courier, ultra-security can be guaranteed; even torture won't
cause the messenger to tell what he knows -- because he doesn't know that he
knows it[116]. According to the highly respected Dr. Milton Kline, "Evidence
really does exist that has not been published" proving that Estabrooks' perfect
secret agent could be successfully evoked[117].
Candy was one such success story. Success, in this context, means that she
could be -- and was -- brutally tortured and abused while running assignments
for the CIA. All the MKULTRA toys were brought into play: hypnosis, drugs,
conditioning -- and electronics. Using these devices, Jensen and Burger
managed to:
-- install a "duplicate personality,"
-- create amnesia of both the programming sessions and the field assignments,
-- turn Candy into a vicious, hate-mongering bigot, the better to isolate her
from the rest of humanity (previously, her associates considered her
noteworthy for her racial tolerance; her modelling agency was one of the
first to break the color barrier), and
-- program her to commit suicide at the end of her usefulness to the Agency.
The programming techniques used on her were flawed. She breached security
when she married famed New York radio personality John Nebel[118], who, using
hypnotic regression, elicited the long-repressed truth. Eventually, the
"Other Candy" was bade farewell, and the programming broken.
Skeptics might find Candy's story as incredible as the abduction accounts--
after all, an amateur had conducted her hypnotic regression, and the possi-
bility of confabulation always lurks. Nevertheless, I feel that the veracity
of her narrative has been established beyond reasonable doubt. In her hypnotic
regression sessions, she recalled being programmed at a government-connected
institute in northern California -- which, as John Marks' investigators later
proved, was indeed heavily involved with government-funded brainwashing
research[119]. Marks himself believes Candy's story -- not least, because the
details of the programming methods used on her were substantiated by documents
released AFTER her book was published[120]. Interviews with Milton Kline,
Dr. Frances Jakes, John Watkins and others provided the testimony that the
programming of Candy Jones was feasible -- and Deep Trance substantiated the
story[121].
Recently, the case has received important "indirect" confirmation:
Investigators interested in follow-up research have filed FOIA requests with
the CIA for all papers relating to Candy Jones. The agency admits that it has
a substantial file on her, but refuses to release any part of it. If her tale
is false, then why would the CIA be so reluctant to deliver the information?
Indeed, why would they have a file in the first place?[122]
The final confirmation of Candy's tale requires a revelation -- one which I
make with some trepidation, even though the individual named is dead.
"Marshall Burger" was really Dr. William Kroger[123].
Kroger, long associated with the espionage establishment, had written the
following in 1963:
...a good subject can be hypnotized to deliver secret
information. The memory of this message could be covered
by an artificially-induced amnesia. In the event that he
should be captured, he naturally could not remember that he
had ever been given the message...however, since he had
been given a post-hypnotic suggestion, the message would be
subject to recall through a specific cue.[124]
If Candy confabulated her story, why did she name this particualr scientist,
who, writing theoretically in 1963, predicted the subsequent events in her
life?[125]
After L'AFFAIR JONES, Kroger transferred his base of operations to UCLA --
specifically, to the Neuropsychiatric Institute run by Dr. Louis Jolyon West,
an MKULTRA veteran. There he wrote HYPNOSIS AND BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION[126],
with a preface by Martin Orne (another MKULTRA veteran) and H.J. Eysenck (still
another MKULTRA veteran). The finale of this opus contains chilling hints
of the possibilites inherent in combining hypnosis with ESB, implants, and
conditioning -- though Kroger is careful to point out that "we are not
concerned that man might be conditioned by rewards and punishments through
electronic brain stimulation to be controlled like robots."[127] HE may not
be concerned -- but perhaps WE ought to be.
The control of Candy Jones gives us much information useful to our "alien
abduction" hypothesis.
1. Her torture sessions -- inflicted during her programming by her CIA
masters, and on missions by as-yet mysterious persons -- seem strikingly like
the otherwise senselessly painful "examinations" allegedly conducted aboard
alien spacecraft.
2. Her personality shifts roughly parallel those experienced by certain UFO
abductees.
3. Despite her brutalization, she remained "loyal" to Drs. Jensen and
Burger. This bewildering behavior reminds me of my first abductee interviews,
during which I heard ghastly descriptions of UFO torture sessions -- followed
by protestations of limitless love for the alien pain-mongers.
4. Like many abductees, Candy had to attend regular "conditioning" sessions.
Repeated exposure to the programming is necessary to effect continuous control.
5. To maintain their hammerlock on her mind, Candy's handlers programmed her
to remain isolated. Specifically, they instilled a deep paranoia toward other
human beings; "outsiders" were probable enemies, out to use or abuse her. I
have seen this pattern consistently in my own work with abductees[128]. Skep-
tics would argue that unreasonable abductee fears probably indicate paranoid
schizophrenia--one symptom of which can, indeed, be hallucinatory experiences.
But most abductees are easily hypnotized, while paranoid schizophrenics are
extremely difficult to "put under," according to Dr. Edward Simpson-Kallas, a
psychiatrist with wide experience in the area of forensic hypnosis[129]. If,
however, those unreasonable fears had been hypnotically induced, the contra-
diction is resolved.
6. Candy was the product of an unhappy childhood, hence her propensity
toward multiple personality[130]. Many of the "repeater" abductees I have
interviewed had similarly depressing family histories[131].
7. The story of Candy Jones also has what we might call a "negative
relevance" to the abduction accounts. Because the Controllers did not
establish a hypnotic cover story, or pseudomemory, the true facts of the case
managed to percolate into her conscious mind. No matter how thorough the post-
hypnotic amnesia, leaks will occur -- hence the need for a false memory, to
fill the gap of recollection. The CIA learns from its mistakes. Candy's
hypno-programming broke down in early 1973 -- the year the "alien disguise"
became (if my hypothesis proves correct) standard operating procedure[132].
(Milton Kline accepted the Candy Jones story, but considered the job amateurish
and inconsistent with the best work done at that time[133]. Perhaps the major
fault was the lack of a pseudomemory cover story?)
BASES OF SUSPICION
"Underground base" rumors are as hot as jalapenos in the UFO field right
now, and several of these stories involve abductions.
For example, a sideshow of the famous Bentwaters UFO case involves the
abduction of an airman named Larry Warren to an underground cavity beneath the
military base. There, while in what he later described as "a bit of a drugged
state," he saw aliens and human beings -- military figures -- working side-by-
side[134].
I have spoken to another abductee, Nancy Wright, who was allegedly taken to
an underground chamber ten miles north of Edwards AFB, California. As this
was a multiple-witness event, and Ms. Wright has not attempted to capitalize on
the story for financial gain, I tend to credit her story[135]. According to
abduction researcher Miranda Parks, an elderly couple living in the vicinity
was also abducted in an exactly similar fashion[136].
In 1979, Paul Bennewitz and Leo Sprinkle researched a particularly
controversial abduction involving a young woman (name unrevealed) who was
apparently taken to a facility where aliens processed fluids and body parts
from a cattle mutilation. This investigation seems to have led to the
government harassment of Bennewitz, in which some form of mind control (or, as
I have previously referred to it, "electronic GASLIGHT") may have played a
part[137].
How do we account for these tales of alleged alien skullduggery carried out
in conjunction with the military? I, for one, cannot credit the generally-
unsubstantiated tales of "cosmic conspiracy" now promulgated by ex-intelligence
agents such as John Lear and William Cooper. While I cannot assert insincerity
on the part of these men, I often wonder if they have been used as conduits --
witting or unwitting -- in a sophisticated disinformation scheme.
A simpler, though no less chilling, explanation for the "base" abductions
may be found in the story of Dr. Louis Jolyon ("boB") West, now notorious for
his participation in MKULTRA experiments with LSD[138]. Inspired by VIOLENCE
AND THE BRAIN (a book by Drs. Frank ("Bob") Ervin and Vernon H. ("BoB") Mark
which ascribed inner city turmoil to a "genetic defect" within rebellious
blacks), West proposed, in 1973, a Center for the Study and Reduction of
Violence, where potentially violent individuals could be dealt with
prophylactically. ["I was cured, all right." - A CLOCKWORK ORANGE -jpg]
And who were these individuals? According to West's proposal, the note-
worthy factors indicating a violent predisposition were "sex (male), age
(youthful), ethnicity (black) and urbanicity." How to deal with them? "...by
implanting tiny electrodes deep within the brain, electrical activity can be
followed in areas that cannot be measured from the surface of the scalp...it is
even possible to record bioelectrical changes in the brains of freely-moving
subjects, through the use of remote monitoring techniques..." By monitoring
the subjects' EEGs remotely, potentially violent episodes could be identified.
For our purposes, the most significant aspect of this proposal had to do
with location. In a secret communication to Dr. J.M. ("BoB") Stubblebine,
director of the California State Department of Health (fortunately, this
missive was "leaked" to the public), West disclosed that he intended to house
his Center in an abandoned Nike missile base, whose location was accessible
yet relatively remote. "The site is securely fenced," West wrote. "Compara-
tive studies could be carried out there, in an isolated but convenient
location, of experimental model programs, for the alteration of undesirable
behavior."[139]
Public outcry stopped these plans. But was this scheme truly eliminated?
Or was it merely modified, stripped (temporarily) of its overtly racial
overtones and relocated to some less-accessible spot?
One thing is certain: A CIA "spy-chiatrist" favored secret behavior control
experimentation in a remote military installation. Perhaps someone within the
espionage establishment's mind-modification divisions still thinks highly of
the idea. If so, the disposal problem would once again rear its ugly head,
should "visitors" to these installations ever reappear in outside society.
Again, a hypno-programmed cover story -- the less believable, the better --
would prove invaluable.
THE SCANDINAVIAN CONNECTION
Many books have been written about abductees, yet few exist about the
victims of mind control. I cannot understand this situation; the reality of
UFOs is still controversial, yet the existence of mind control was verified
in two (heavily compromised) congressional investigations and in thousands of
FOIA documents. Nevertheless, the abductees find many a sympathetic ear, while
those few who dare to proclaim themselves the victims of known government
programs rarely find anyone to hear them out. Our prejudices on this score are
regrettable, for if we listened to the "controllees" we would hear many details
strikingly similar to those mentioned by UFO abductees.
Two cases in point: Martti Koski and Robert Naeslund.
Koski, a Finnish citizen, claims to have been a victim of mind control
experimentation while visiting Canada. Shortly after his experience began, he
attempted to broadcast his situation to the world and draw attention to his
plight. Few listened. Many of his details were bizarre, and not being a
native speaker of English, he could not express himself convincingly to those
he approached for help. Yet many aspects of his story correspond closely to
known details of MKULTRA and related programs.
Naeslund, a Swedish citizen, tells a similar story. Moreover, his claims
were backed by special evidence: X-rays revealed an implant in his brain.
Naeslund actually went to the extreme of having his implant tested by
electronic technicians employed by Hewlett-Packard. A Greek surgeon performed
the necessary trepanation to remove the device.
Many aspects of the Koski and Naeslund stories correspond to my hypothesis.
Koski, for example, was at one point told that the doctors afflicting him were
actually "aliens from Sirius." At another point, he was led to believe that
he was under direction of "the Lord." (As I previously indicated, manipulation
of religious imagery could help induce anti-social behavior; the subject's
super-ego can be nullified if he believes that he follows commands from on
high. Such manipulation may explain the more bizarre aspects of Betty
Andreasson Luca's abduction[140].)
Naeslund's implant was originally placed through his nasal cavity. He first
realized that something terrible had happened to him after an experience of
missing time, followed by an INEXPLICABLE NOSEBLEED.
This detail will be instantly familiar to anyone who has studied abductions;
I have encountered it in my own conversations with abductees. For an excellent
example in the UFO literature, I refer the reader to the case of Susan Ransted,
as detailed in Kevin D. Randle's THE UFO CASEBOOK[141]; the background of
alleged contactee Diane Tessman is also noteworthy in this regard[142].
Intriguingly, I have located a reference in the open literature to the use, in
animal study, of nasally-implanted electrodes for the measurement of electro-
magnetic radiation effects[143].
There are other claimed mind control victims bearing evidence of implants;
note, especially, the fascinating case of James Petit, a CIA-connected pilot
and alleged brainwashing alumnus; X-rays of his cranium have revealed abductee-
style implants -- fitting, perhaps, since his body bears abductee-style scars.
[144] Conversely, certain abductees will, if allowed a thorough and sympa-
thetic hearing, deliver testimony strongly agreeing with Koski's narrative.
HELICOPTERS AND DISKS
The bizarre story of Rex Niles and his sister (not named in news accounts)
may shed interesting light on a variety of abductee cases, particularly that
of Betty and Barney Hill[145]. Niles, the high-rolling owner of a Woodland
Hills defense subcontracting firm (Rex Rep) was fingered by authorities
investigating defense industry kickbacks. He became an extraordinarily
cooperative witness in the investigation -- until he was targeted by his
enemies, who allegedly used psychoelectronics as harassment.
The following excerpt from the LOS ANGELES TIMES article on Niles is
particularly compelling:
He [Niles] produced testimony from his sister, a Simi
Valley woman who swears that helicopters have repeatedly
circled her home. An engineer measured 250 watts of
microwaves in the atmosphere outside Niles' house and
found a RADIOACTIVE DISK UNDERNEATH THE DASH OF HIS CAR
[my italics].
A former high school friend, Lyn Silverman, claimed
that her home computer went haywire when Niles stepped
close to it.
No aliens in this story -- yet how similar it is to tales of alien
abduction! The low-flying helicopters, of course, are frequently reported
by abduction victims -- the Betty Andreasson Luca case provides the best-
known example[146]. The haywire electronics equipment is also frequently
encountered in putative abduction cases; I have spoken (independently) to
three women who claimed to have been able to disturb or shut off televisions
and stereos simply by walking past the devices; one woman even claimed she
had switched off her TV simply by pointing at it.
But the radioactive disc is especially intriguing. As former FBI agent
Ted Gunderson recently explained to my associate Alexander Constantine,
magnetic radioactive discs have long been used by the clandestine services as
cancer-inducing "silent killers" -- i.e., as tools of assassination. Not only
that. The disc calls to mind one little-remembered detail of the Hill case --
the dozen-or-so circular "shiny spots," each the size of a silver dollar, found
on the trunk of her car directly after the abduction. A compass needle reacted
wildly when placed near these spots. Could they have marked the location where
an electromagnetic or radioactive device, similar to that found by Niles, was
placed on the car? (Such a device might have been held to the spot magnetic-
ally, hence the circular impressions.) If so, then the disorienting EMR could
have helped induce the Hills' "UFO sighting."
THE MILITARY AND MIND CONTROL
Some time ago, I attended hypnotic regression sessions in which the
subject -- a claimed UFO abductee -- recalled undergoing a mysterious "brain
operation" at a veteran's hospital in California. The operation was performed
by human beings, not aliens. Interestingly, this same hospital was mentioned
in two other cases I encountered. These other claims were not made by
abductees, but by people alleged to have been victims of mind control experi-
mentation.
One of these claimants, a former Navy SEAL who undertook numerous dangerous
missions in Vietnam, favorably impressed me with the wealth of detail in his
story[147]. This individual -- I've taken to calling him "the trained SEAL"--
had received specialized combat training at a military base in California; he
claims that at one point during this training he was drugged, hypnotized,
possibly placed under some form of electronic control, and subjected to the
extremes of pain/pleasure operant conditioning. One peculiar detail of his
story concerns the "reward" aspect of the conditioning: When properly
acquiescent, he was given unlimited sexual access to a woman who, the SEAL
avers, was herself the victim of brainwashing.
Unbelievable as this last claim may seem, I found it oddly resonant when I
later interviewed a prominent abductee in the Southern California area, who
bravely offered me details on a puzzling, albeit quite delicate, incident in
her past. Still an attractive woman, she recalled for me -- indeed, seemed
strangely compelled to describe -- an early love affair with a young soldier
training at a military base near her home. She cannot recall the soldier's
name. All she remembers is that one day he started LIVING AT HER FAMILY'S
HOUSE; she has no memory of how the arrangement began, and her parents have
never felt comfortable discussing the matter. Although unattracted to this
soldier, she felt compelled to become intimate with him, adopting a pliant,
obeisant attitude that was quite out of character for her. Later, the soldier
went on to covert missions in Vietnam.
Of course, a young person's psycho-sexual development is never smooth, and
the incident related above may merely have represented one peculiarly upsetting
bump in that notoriously rough road. Still, some of the details of this story
-- particularly the parents' attitude, the woman's personality shift, and her
subsequent memory lapses -- are striking, and I treat with respect the abduc-
tee's intuition that this minor enigma in her personal history could, if
properly understood, shed light on her later "missing time" experiences.
Could the "trained SEAL" have been right? Was there, IS there, a coterie
of hypno-programmed soldiers conducting particularly hazardous missions? And
do the programmers have at their disposal a "ladies' auxiliary," so to speak,
of hypnotized camp followers?
If the SEAL's story stood alone, skeptics could easily dismiss it
(provided they did not sit, as I did, face-to-face with the story's teller,
listening to all the grisly and unsettling details). But other veterans have
added their voices to this grim tale. Daniel Sheehan, of the Christic
Institute, claims that his organization has spoken to half-a-dozen individuals
with narratives similar to my SEAL informant. All had received "processing,"
so to speak, within the context of standard military training; after pro-
gramming and specialized combat instruction by mercenaries, the recruits were
placed "on hold," to be used as situations arose -- and some of those
situations occurred within the United States[148].
Walter Bowart began his own researches into mind control by placing an ad in
SOLDIER-OF-FORTUNE-style publications, asking for correspondence from veterans
who experienced inexplicable lapses in memory or strange behavior modification
techniques while serving in Vietnam; he received over 100 replies. Bowart
devoted an entire chapter to one of these respondents -- an Air Force veteran
named David, who ended his four-year tour of duty recalling only that he had
spent the time "having fun, skin diving, laying on the beach, collecting
shells...It never dawned on me until later that I must have DONE something
while I was in the service." (An obvious example of screen memory.) He was
also "assigned" a girlfriend whose name he cannot now recall, despite the
length and deep intimacy of the affair[149]. The parallels to the SEAL's story
and the abductee's account should be obvious.
We even have a confession, of sorts, from a scientist who specialized in one
aspect of this sort of training. Lt. Commander Thomas ("Bob") Narut, of the
U.S. Naval Hospital at the NATO headquarters in Naples, Florida, admitted
during a lecture in Oslo that recruits in Naples underwent CLOCKWORK-ORANGE-
style behavior modification sessions. Trainees would be strapped into chairs
with their eyelids clamped open while watching films of industrial accidents
and African circumcision ceremonies -- films frequently used by psychologists
as a means of inducing stress in experimental situations. Unlike the
protagonist in A CLOCKWORK ORANGE, who learned revulsion at the sight of
violence, Narut's soldiers were taught to accept and enjoy bloodshed, to view
it with equanimity. Similar techniques were used to dehumanize potential
enemies. Graduates of this program became, in Narut's words, "hit men and
assassins," to be placed in American embassies throughout the world.
When questioned by reporters about these claims, the American government
denied the story; Narut -- after a long incommunicado period and apparent
coercion -- later explained to journalists that he had merely spoken
theoretically. If so, why did he originally describe the behavior modification
procedure as an ongoing program?[150]
And while it may seem frivolous to return to the subject of abductions after
examining such grim data, I should remind the reader of the many abduction
accounts in which abductees recall being forced to watch certain stress-
inducing motion pictures. The aliens, it seems, have learned a few lessons
from Dr. Narut.
Narut, of course, concentrated on selective programming of individual
American soldiers; on the other side of the mind control spectrum, Defense
Department specialists have also concentrated on methods to render entire
enemy battalions "combat ineffective." Electromagnetic weaponry, intended to
wipe out the aggression of the enemy, is the province of DARPA, under the
direction of Dr. Jack ("Bob" Dobbs) Verona. These projects remain fairly
mysterious; we do know, however, that one operation, SLEEPING BEAUTY, employed
the services of Dr. Michael ("BoB") Persinger, a scientist who has expressed
interesting views regarding UFOs.
Persinger discovered a method of using ELF waves to induce the brain's MAST
cells to release histamine; should a battlefield commander wish to subject his
enemy to mass bouts of vomiting, Persinger's trick could do the job even
faster than a Tobe Hooper movie. The method works on animals. "The question,"
writes mind control researcher Larry Collins, "is how to get from point A to
point B without violating one of the most rigorous commandments of Government
ethics -- thou shalt not conduct experiments like that on human beings."[151]
If Collins had studied the record a little more carefully, he might realize
that the government hasn't always regarded this commandment as something
graven in stone. As Milton Kline put it:
Ethical factors involved in most research would preclude
having positive results. Those ethical factors don't always
hold with government research. THE RESEARCH WHICH HAS GIVEN
REALLY POSITIVE RESULTS HAS NOT BEEN LIMITED BY ETHICAL
CONSTRAINTS[152]. [my italics]
THE ULTIMATE MOTIVE FOR MIND CONTROL
Hypnosis hard-liners of the Orne school would almost certainly dismiss the
foregoing veterans' accounts of the use of hypnosis, drugs and behavioral
conditioning on American fighting men. Why, the skeptics would ask, would
anyone attempt to create a "Manchurian Candidate" when the military services,
using entirely conventional means, can create a "Rambo"? There have always
been recruits for even the most hazardous duties; what need of hypnosis?
The need, in fact, is absolute.
The modern battlefield has little place for the traditional soldier.
Advanced weaponry requires an increasing level of technical sophistication,
which in turn requires a cool-headed operator. But the all-too-human
combatant -- though capable of extraordinary acts of courage under the most
stressful conditions imaginable -- does not possess inexhaustible reserves of
SANG-FROID. Eventually, breakdowns will occur. Per-capita psychiatric
casualties have increased dramatically in each successive American conflict.
As Richard Gabriel, the excellent historian of the role of psychiatry in
warfare, writes:
Modern warfare has become so lethal and so intense that
only the already insane can endure it...Modern war requiring
continuous combat will increase the degree of fatigue on the
soldier to heretofore unknown levels. Physical fatigue --
especially the lack of sleep -- will increase the rate of
psychiatric casualties enormously. Other factors -- high
rates of indirect fire, night fighting, lack of food, constant
stress, large numbers of casualties -- will ensure that the
number of psychiatric casualties will reach disastrous pro-
portions. And the number of casualties will overburden the
medical structure to the point of collapse.
The ability to treat psychiatric casualties will all but
disappear. There will be no safe forward areas in which to
treat soldiers debilitated by mental collapse. The technology
of modern war has made such locations functionally obsolete...[153]
According to Gabriel, the military intends to meet this challenge by
creating "the chemical soldier," a designer-drugged zombie in fighting man's
uniform:
On the battlefields of the future we will witness a true
clash of ignorant armies, armies ignorant of their own
emotions and even of the reasons for which they fight.
Soldiers on all sides will be reduced to fearless chemical
automatons who fight simply because they can do nothing
else...Once the chemical genie is out of the bottle, the
full range of human mental and physical actions become
targets for chemical control...Today it is already possible
by chemical or electrical stimulation to increase the
aggression levels of the human being by stimulating the
amygdala, a section of the brain known to control aggression
and rage. Such "human potential engineering" is already a
partial reality and the necessary technical knowledge
increases every day[154].
While this passage speaks of drugs and electronics, we can safely assume
that the planners of battle would not refrain from using any other promising
technique.
Gabriel writes primarily of large-scale battle scenarios, but based on
his information, we can fairly deduce that the mind-controlled soldier will
also play a role in the surgical strike, the covert operation, the infiltration
behind enemy lines by units of the Special Forces. On such missions, United
States personnel have increasingly relied on torture as a means of interro-
gation and intimidation[155], and as such barbarism becomes standard procedure
the American fighting man of the future will need to find within himself
unprecedented reserves of brutality. Will the average recruit, culled from the
nation's suburbs and reared on traditional ideals, possess such reserves?
Vietnam proved that the soldier, despite a barrage of propaganda intended to
cloud his discernment, will sense the difference between fighting for legit-
imate defense interests and fighting to protect political hegemony. To
forestall this realization, or to render it irrelevant, military planners must
withdraw the human combatant and replace him with a new species of warrior.
The soldier of the future will not discern; he will merely do. He will not be
a butcher; he will be the butcher's KNIFE -- a tool among tools, thoughtless
and effective.
And it is my contention that to create this soldier of the future, the
controllers will need a continuing program, one designed to test each new
method and combination of methods for conquering the human mind.
One primary goal of this program must include expanding the human capacity
for stress and violence. Subjects enrolled in such experimental procedures
will experience pain, and will learn to accept the pain. Eventually, they will
learn to inflict it, without remorse or even remembrance. The nation who first
creates this new soldier will possess a decisive advantage on the "conven-
tional" battlefield -- as will the nation which first develops a means of using
mass mind control techniques to disable entire enemy platoons. [And to placate
whole civilian populations, both those of the enemy and those at home. -jpg]
This paramount military necessity is the reason why I will never believe any
unconvincing reassurances that our nation's clandestine scientists have fore-
gone or will forego research into behavior modification. This research will
never be mere history. What's past is present, and today's covert experiment-
ation will become tomorrow's basic training.
A prototype of the future warrior may already be with us. The Navy SEAL
I interviewed spoke in horrifying detail of dismemberment without emotion, of
rape as routine, of killing without affect. And then FORGETTING THAT HE HAD
KILLED. Even years later, he could not recall the stories behind many of the
wounds on his own body. He claims that whenever he would need the services of
the veteran's hospital, doctors would re-hypnotize him shortly after his
admission, while a physician specifically cleared for such work would examine
his medical history, which was highly classified and kept under lock and key.
According to the SEAL's testimony, his memory block cracked little by
little, as a result of events too complex to recount here. Finally, years
after Vietnam, he was able to remember what he did.
Amnesia was a blessing.
IV. Abductions
Press and public now regard abductees as tony curiosities, yet science, for
the most part, still banishes their tales to the domain of the damned, as
Charles Fort defined damnation. So too with claimed victims of mind control.
The Voice of Authority tells us that MKULTRA belongs to history; like Hasdrubal
and Hitler, it threatened once, but no more. Anyone insisting otherwise must
be silenced by glib rationalization and selective inattention.
Yet these two topics -- UFO abductions and mind control -- have more in
common than their mutual ostracization. The data overlap. If we could chart
these phenomena on a Venn diagram, we would see a surprisingly large inter-
section between the two circles of information. It is this overlap I seek to
address.
Note, however, that I can NOT address all the other interesting and
important issues raised by the UFO abduction experience. For exmaple, I have
written, admittedly rather vaguely, of nasal implants reported by abductees --
the sort of detail which might place an account in the "high strangeness"
category, and of course, a detail central to my thesis. But what percentage
of the percipients speak of such implants? A truly scientific analysis would
provide a figure. Unfortunately, I haven't the resources to compile a
sufficiently large abductee sample from which one could draw statistics. Nor
can I make an over-arching qualitative analysis, measuring the value of "high
strangeness" reports against other abductee claims. All I can do is note the
available literature, and leave the reader to wonder, as I do, whether the
compilers of that literature concentrated on exceptional cases or were biased
in favor of the less fantastic abductee accounts. I have supplemented readings
of the abduction literature with my own interviews with percipients -- which,
since abductees tend to know other abductees, can give a surprisingly wide view
of the phenomenon. This view has been broadened still further by my talks and
correspondence with other members of the UFO community.
Of course, we must recognize the difference between testimony and proof. No
one can state definitively that abduction reports have a basis in objective
reality (however misperceived). Ultimately, all we have are stories. Some of
these stories may be of questionable veracity; others may be contaminated by
investigator bias; many are insufficiently detailed. No one research paper can
resolve all abduction controversies, and many necessary battles must be fought
on other fields.
Still, the testimony won't go away -- and we certainly have enough to allow
for comparisons. I maintain that an unprejudiced overview of abduction reports
in the popular press and the less-familiar material on mind control will
demonstrate a striking correlation. Once other abduction researchers have been
educated in the ways of MKULTRA (and this paper is intended as an introductory
text) they may note a similar pattern. If so, we can then begin to write a
revisionist history of the phenomenon.
The abduction enigma contains within it sub-mysteries that slide into the
mind control scenario with surprising ease, even elegance -- mysteries which
fit the E.T. hypothesis as uncomfortably as a size 10 foot fits into a size 8
shoe. As we have seen, the MKULTRA thesis explains the reports of abductee
intracerebral implants (particularly reports involving nosebleeds), unusual
scars, "telepathic" communication (i.e., externally induced intracerebral
voices) concurrent with or following the abduction encounter, allegations that
some abductees hear unusual sound effects (similar to those created by the
hemi-synch and cognate devices), haywire electronic devices in abductee homes,
personality shifts, "training films," manipulation of religious imagery, and
missing time. Needless to say, the thesis of clandestine government experi-
mentation readily accounts for abductee claims of human beings "working" with
the aliens, and for the government harassment that plays so prominent a role in
certain abductee reports.
Let's look at some more correlations.
THE HILL CASE AND THE "ADVANCED" ALIENS
Earlier, I asked, "Do the aliens also watch black-and-white television?" in
reference to their alleged use of old-fashioned, Terra-style brain implantation
devices. Abduction accounts abound in other examples of alien "retro-
technology." The most striking example can be found in the Betty and Barney
Hill incident, the details of which are too well-known to recount here[156].
As we have already glimpsed during our discussion of the Rex Niles affair,
the Hills' "interrupted journey" abounds in data which, taken together, permits
the construction of an alternative explanation.
At one point during the alleged UFO abduction, the "examiners" inserted a
needle in Betty Hill's navel, telling her that this practice constituted a
test for pregnancy[157]. Some ufologists[158] rashly assume that Betty Hill's
"pregnancy test" is evidence of advanced extraterrestrial technology, since her
1961 account pre-dates the official announcement of amniocentesis, which does
indeed make use of a needle inserted into the navel. But we now have much less
invasive means of testing for pregnancy than amniocentesis. True, amniocentesis
is still sometimes used to gather information about the fetus, but the wielders
of a highly evolved technology would certainly use other methods of determining
the existence of pregnancy in the first place.
Betty Hill's testimony reminds us of certain other abduction accounts,
which contain descriptions of "healings" surprisingly similar to the procedures
associated with still-experimental electromagnetic therapy techniques, such as
those described in Robert O. Becker's THE BODY ELECTRIC. For example, abductee
Deanna Dube described for me an abduction-related "regeneration" of her long-
damaged heart; had she been familiar with Becker's work[159], she might have
been a bit less rapid to ascribe her healing to otherworldly influences.
Medical breakthroughs often undergo years of testing before their official
"discovery." For some of these tests, finding volunteers present a major
obstacle. If we accept the proposition that the Hill incident originated in an
external and objective stimulus, we must then ask ourselves which scenario is
more likely: Did Betty Hill encounter human beings using a technique ten years
ahead of its time? Or did she encounter aliens (reputedly a "billion years
ahead of us") using science from eons before THEIR time?
One must also ask why Betty Hill's aliens seemed to have no grasp of basic
human concepts (such as how we measure time) -- yet they knew enough about us
to speak English fluently and had even mastered our slang. Were these real
aliens, or humans engaging in theatricals (and occasionally muffing their
lines)? For that matter, why did Betty Hill originally recall her abductors as
humanoid, only later describing them as aliens?
The Hill case provided a particularly controversial piece of evidence --
the celebrated "star map" recalled by Betty Hill under hypnosis. In later
years, an Ohio schoolteacher named Marjorie Fish made an ingenious and laudable
attempt to discover a match for this map by constructing an elaborate three-
dimensional model of nearby star systems; whether she succeeded remains a
matter for keen debate[160]. For now, I prefer to avoid taking sides in this
dispute and will confine myself to insisting that pro-ET ufologists answer
(WITHOUT resorting to glib ripostes) a point first raised by Jacques Vallee:
THE MAP MAKES NO SENSE AS A NAVIGATIONAL AID. Vallee notes that, even if we
grant the Fish interpretation, the stars are not drawn to scale -- and at any
rate, alien spaceships would surely be navigated the same way we guide our own
spacecraft: via computers and telemetry[161]. The validity of the Fish
interpretation is irrelevent; the point is that ANY such chart would have NO
value to an interstellar star-farer.
Fish's work raises other controversies: Allegedly, the map points to Zeta
Reticuli as the aliens' home system and pictures Zeta Reticuli as a single
star, a view consistent with scientific opinion of the 1960s. Yet in later
years scientists discovered that Zeta Reticuli is binary[162]. Moreover, how
did our abductee manage to remember so accurately a complex chart glimpsed in
passing? Even allowing for the possibility of increased accuracy of recol-
lection under hypnotic regression, the memory feat here seems remarkable.
Consider the circumstances of the abduction: Kafka on hallucinogens couldn't
have conceived of the nightmare vision confronting Betty Hill that night --
yet for some reason this particular arrangement of stars emerged as her most
intensely-detailed recollection of the experience.
This memory (if not confabulated during regression, a possibility we should
always weigh) is comprehensible only as an example of ARTIFICIALLY-INDUCED
HYPERMNESIA. In other words, Betty Hill was DIRECTED to store that chart
within her subconscious. The celebrated star map ought to be recognized for
what it was: a prop, a seemingly-confirmatory circumstantial detail meant to
convince her -- and perhaps US -- of the reality of her abduction. [cf.
Strieber's citation of the woman with the memory of ancient Celtic "fairy
speak." -jpg]
The question of motive arises. Why -- if my thesis is correct -- were
these two fairly innocuous individuals chosen for this new variation on the old
MKULTRA tricks?
The selection might, of course, have been arbitrary. Or perhaps circum-
stances now irretrievably lost to history rendered the couple a convenient
target. Interestingly, Barney Hill had become acquainted (through church
functions) with the head of Air Force intelligence at Pease Air Force Base;
perhaps this relationship first brought the Hills to the attention of members
of the intelligence community. Arguably, the Hills could have been fingered
for a wide variety of reasons; as a general rule, the clandestine services
prefer to satisy a number of itches with one scratch.
In fact, the espionage establishment had one particularly compelling reason
to focus on the Hills. Barney Hill (a black man) and his wife held important
positions in several civil rights organizations, including the NAACP[163].
The abduction took place during the 1960s, when the NAACP and allied groups
fell victim to an increasingly paranoid series of attacks from the FBI and
other governmental agencies (under operations COINTELPRO, CHAOS, GARDEN PLOT,
etc.)[164]. At that time, infiltration of civil rights groups proved a
difficult chore; while most left-leaning groups provided easy targets for FBI
stooges, the average undercover operative would have had an exceptionally
difficult time posing as a black activist. (In 1961, the only black people on
the FBI's payroll were the servants in J. Edgar Hoover's home.)
In light of these facts, we should recall Victor Marchetti's anecdote about
the cat that the CIA had "wired for sound." Perhaps an ambitious covert
scientist proposed a similar experiment, in which a human being would play the
role that had once been assigned to the unfortunate feline? As Estabrooks
noted, the ultimate espionage agent would be the spy who doesn't KNOW he is a
spy. Barney Hill, a well-regarded figure with a near-genius-level IQ, was a
safe bet to obtain a leadership role in any group he joined; he would have been
remarkably well-positioned, had any outsiders wished to use his ears to over-
hear prominent black organizers in confidential discussion.
Of course, many intelligence professionals would counter this suggestion
by reminding us that eavesdroppers on the civil rights movement had plenty of
less-flamboyant methods: Bugging, "black bag" jobs, paying for information,
etc. The point is valid. But if the technology to create a "human bug" was
developed circa 1961 -- and there is documentation suggesting that such is
indeed the case[165] -- the intelligence agencies would surely have wanted to
test the possibilities in the field. And considering the expense of such a
test, why not conduct the experiment in such a way as to reap the maximum
benefits? Why NOT choose a Barney Hill?
ARMS AND THE ABDUCTEE
Budd Hopkins told the follwing story during his lecture at the Los Angeles
"Whole Life Expo."[166] He considers the case "very good...lots of corrobo-
rating witnesses for parts of it." Though not, presumably, for THIS part:
Hopkins' informant, after the by-now familiar UFO abduction, was given a
gun by the aliens. Not a Buck Rogers laser weapon -- this was something
Dirty Harry might have packed.
The abductee was also given someone to shoot. Not a little grey alien --
another human being, tied to a chair. The "visitors" told their armed abductee
that this captive had done "evil on earth, and he's a bad person. You have to
kill him." If the abductee didn't do as asked, he would never leave the ship.
The captive proclaimed his innocence, and pleaded for his life. The
abductee, caught in the middle of all this, became quite upset. (Worth noting:
he seems to have at least CONSIDERED the aliens' request to shoot someone he
had never met.) Ultimately, the abductee turned the gun on the aliens and
said, "Nobody's going to get shot here."
According to Hopkins, "The aliens said 'Fine. Very good.' They took the
gun from him; the man [presumably, the captive] got up, walked away, dis-
appeared, and they went on to the next thing." Obviously, this little drama
had been staged -- a test of some sort.
I submit that this surreal incident is incomprehensible as either an
example of alien incursion or of "Klass-ical" confabulation. The scenario
described here EXACTLY parallels numerous experiments in the hypnotic induction
of anti-social action as revealed both in the standard hypnosis literature and
in declassified ARTICHOKE/MKULTRA documents. For example, compare Hopkins'
account to the following, in which Ludwig Mayer, a prominent German hypnosis
researcher, describes a classic experiment in the hypnotic induction of
criminal action:
I gave a revolver to an elderly and readily suggestible
man whom I had just hypnotized. The revolver had just been
loaded by Mr. H. with a percussion cap. I explained to
[the subject], while pointing to Mr. H., that Mr. H. was a
very wicked man whom he should shoot to kill. With great
determination he took the revolver and fired a shot directly
at Mr. H. Mr. H. fell down pretending to be wounded. I
then explained to my subject that the fellow was not yet
quite dead, and that he should give him another bullet,
which he did without further ado[167].
Of course, if a conservative hypnosis specialist were asked to comment on
the above account, he would quickly point out that hypnotic suggestions which
work in an experimental situation would not easily succeed outside the lab-
oratory; on some level, the subject will probably sense whether or not he's
playing the game for real[168]. Similarly, a conservative abduction researcher
would, in reviewing Hopkins' material, emphasize the problems inherent in using
testimony derived during regression, where the threat of confabulation lurks.
I'll concede both arguments -- for the moment -- only to insist that they are
beside the point. The matter of primary importance, the sticking point which
neither Klass nor Hopkins can comfortably confront, is the convergence of
detail between Mayer's hypnosis experiment and the testing event related by
Hopkins' abductee. WHY ARE THESE TWO STORIES SO SIMILAR? Did the good Dr.
Mayer take pupils from Sirius?[169].
Hopkins says he knows of other instances in which abductees found themselves
in similar crucibles. So do I.
One person I spoke to can remember (SANS hypnosis) being handed a gun inside
a ziplock baggy and receiving instructions that she will have to use this
weapon "on a job." Early in my interviews with her (and with no prompting from
me) she recited an apparent cue drilled into her consciousness by the "enti-
ties" (as she calls them): "When you see the light, do it tonight," followed by
the command, "Execute." (One can only speculate as to how such commands would
be used in the field; we will discuss later the use of photovoltaic hypnotic
induction.) Though her personal feelings toward firearms are decidedly
negative, she vivdly describes periods in her "everyday" life when she feels an
uncharacteristic, yet overpowering urge to be near a gun -- a quasi-sexual
desire to pick one up and touch the metal[170].
She is not alone. Another has been so affected by gun fever that he became
a security guard, just to be near the things[171]. The abductees I have spoken
to connect this sudden surge of Ramboism to the UFO experience. But I suggest
that the UFO experience may be merely a cover story for another type of
training entirely.
One of the primary goals of BLUEBIRD, ARTICHOKE, and MKULTRA was to
determine whether mind control could be used to faciliate "executive action"--
i.e., assassination[172].
It isn't difficult to imagine the media's reaction if a public figure were
murdered by someone acting at the behest of the "space brothers." Who would
dare to speak of conspiracy under such circumstances? The hidden controllers
could choose a myth structure that conform's to the abductee's personality,
then pose as higher beings, who would whisper violence into the ear of the
percipient. Using this ruse, the trick that scientists such as Ludwig Mayer
could perform in the lab might now be accomplished in the field. As
Estabrooks' associate Jack Tracktir (professor of hypnotherapy at Baylor
University) explained to John Marks, anti-social acts can be induced with
"no conscience involved" once the proper pretext has been created[173].
"THEY WILL THINK IT'S FLYING SAUCERS"
Jenny Randles contributes an anecdote from Great Britain which dovetails
nicely with this hypothesis.
In 1965, "Margary" (a pseudonym) lived in Birmingham with her husband, who
one night told her to prepare for a "shock and a test." As Randles describes
what she calls a "rogue case":
They got into his car and drove off, although her memory
of the trip became hazy and confused and she does not know
where they went. Then she was in a room that was dimly lit
and there were people standing around a long table or flat
bed. She was out on it and seemed "drugged" and unable to
resist. The most memorable of the men was tall and thin with
a long nose and white beard. He had thick eyebrows and
supposedly said to Margary, "Remember the eyebrows, honey."
A strange medical examination, using odd equipment, was
performed on her.
Both the husband and the scientists, using (apparently) hypnotic techniques,
flooded her mind with images that, she was told, would be understood only in
the future. According to Randles, "At one point one of the 'examiners' in the
room said to Margary in a tone that made it seem as if he were amused, "THEY
WILL THINK IT'S FLYING SAUCERS." The husband also revealed that he had a
second identity. After the abduction, this husband (am I going too far to
assume his employment with MI6 or some cognate agency?) left, never to be seen
again[174]. Margary did not recall the abduction until 1978.
This affair can only baffle a researcher who insists on fitting all
abduction accounts into the ET hypothesis; once we free ourselves from that
set of assumptions, explanations come easily. I interpret this incident as a
case in which the controllers applied the flying saucer cover story sloppily,
or to an insufficiently receptive subject. If my thesis is correct, the UFO
"hypnotic hoax" technique would still have been fairly new in 1965, particular-
ly outside the United States; perhaps the manipulators hadn't yet got the hang
of it. The odd comment about the scientist's eyebrows may refer to an item of
disguise donned for the occasion. The unscrupulous hypnotist, unsure about his
ability to induce an impenetrable amnesia -- and mindful of the price paid by
his forerunners in mesmeric criminality[175] -- would understandably want to
hedge his bets; by indulging in the British penchant for theatrics, he could
further protect his anonymity.
A similar incident was brought to my attention by researcher Robert Durant.
The relevant excerpt of his letter follows:
Now I want to turn to a case that I have been investigating
for several months. The subject is an abductee. Standard
abduction scenario. Twice regressed under hypnosis, the first
time by a well-known abduction researcher, the second time by
a psychologist with parapsychology connections.
In the course of many hours of listening to the subject, I
discovered that she has had close personal contact over a long
period of time with several individuals who have federal
intelligence connections. She was hypnotized many years ago
as part of a TV program devoted to hypnosis. Her abductions
began shortly after she attended several long sessions at a
laboratory where, ostensibly, she was being tested for ESP
abilities. Two other people who were "tested" at this same
laboratory have also had abductions. All three were told by
the lab to join a local UFO group. During her abductions, the
principal alien spoke to the subject in the English language
in a normal manner, not via telepathy. She recognized the
voice, which was at one time that of her very close friend of
yesteryear who was then and is now employed by the CIA. The
other voice was that of an individual who works in Washington,
has what I will call very strong federal connections as well
as a finger in every ufological pie, and who just happened to
bump into her at the aforementioned laboratory. He also
anticipated, in the course of telephone conversations, her
abductions. When the subject confronted him about this and
the voice, he claimed to be psychic. (!)[176]
The "ESP" connection is suggestive; the MKULTRA documents betray an
astonishing interest on the part of the intelligence agencies in matters
parapsychological.
Some researchers would object that examples such as this are rare; most
abductions contain no such overt indications of intelligence involvement.
But have investigators looked for them? As mentioned in the introduction,
a false dichotomy limits much ufological thought; as long as the abduction
argument swings between the ET hypothesis and purely psychological theories,
researchers will not recognize the relevance of certain key items of back-
ground data.
GLIMPSES OF THE CONTROLLERS
In an interview with me, a northern-California abducteee -- call him "Peter"
-- reported an experience which was conducted NOT by a small grey alien, but by
a human being. The percipient called this man a "doctor." He gave a descrip-
tion of this individual, and even provided a drawing.
Some time after I gathered this information, a southern-California abductee
told me her story -- which included a description of this very same "doctor."
The physical details were so strikingly similar as to erase coincidence. This
woman is a leading member of a Los Angeles-based UFO group; three other women
in this group report abduction encounters with the same individual[177].
Perhaps those three women were fantasists, attaching themselves to another's
narrative. But my northern informant never met these people. Why did he
describe the same "doctor"?
One of the abductees I have dealt with insisted, under hypnosis, that her
abduction experience brought her to a certain house in the Los Angeles area.
She was able to provide directions to the house, even though she had no
conscious memory of ever being there. I later learned that this house is
indeed occupied by a scientist who formerly (and perhaps currently) conducted
clandestine research on mind control technology.
This same abductee described a clandestine brain operation of some sort she
underwent in childhood. The neurosurgeon was a human being, not an alien.
She even recalled the name. (Note: This is not the same individual referred to
above.) When I heard the name, it meant nothing to me -- but later I learned
that there really was a scientist of that name who specialzed in electrode
implant research.
Licia Davidson is a thoughtful and articulate abductee, whose fascinating
story closely parallels many found in the abductee literature -- except for one
unusual detail. In an interview with me, described an unsettling recollection
of a human being, dressed normally, holding a black BoX with a protruding
antenna. This odd snippet of memory did NOT coincide with the general thrust
of her abduction narrative. Could this remembrance represent an all-too-brief
segment of accurately-perceived reality interrupting her hypnotically-induced
"screen memory"? Peter clearly recalls seeing a similar BoX during his
abduction.
Interestingly, Licia resides in the Los Angeles suburb of Tujunga Canyon, a
prominent spot on the abduction map; Many of the abductees I have spoken to
first had unusual experiences while living in this area. Near Tujunga Canyon,
in Mt. Pacifico, is a hidden former Nike missile base; more than one abductee
has described odd, seemingly inexplicable military activity around this
location[178]. The reader will recall the connection of Nike missile bases to
the disturbing story of Dr. L. Jolyon ("BoB") West, a veteran of MKULTRA.
CULTS
Some abductees I have spoken to have been directed to join certain
religious/philosophical sects. These cults often bear close examination.
The leaders of these groups tend to be "ex"-CIA operatives, or Special
Forces veterans. They are often linked through personal relations, even
though they espouse widely varying traditions. I have heard unsettling
reports that the leaders of some of these groups have used hypnosis, drugs,
or "mind machines" on their charges. Members of these cults have reported
periods of missing time during ceremonies or "study periods."
I strongly urge abduction researchers to examine closely any small "occult"
groups an abductee might join. For example, one familiar leader of the UFO
fringe -- a man well-known for his espousal of the doctrine of "love and light"
-- is Virgil Armstrong, a close personal friend of General John Singlaub, the
notorious Iran-Contra player, who recently headed the neo-fascist World Anti-
Communist League. Armstrong, who also happens to be an ex-Green Beret and
former CIA operative, figured into my inquiry in an interesting fashion: An
abductee of my acquaintance was told -- by her "entities," naturally -- to seek
out this UFO spokesman and join his "sky-watch" activities, which, my source
alleges, included a mass channelling session intended to send debilitating
"negative" vibrations to Constantine Chernenko, then the leader of the Soviet
Union. Of course, intracerebral voices may have a purely psychological origin,
so Armstrong can hardly be held to task for the abductee's original "direct-
ive."[179] Still, his past associations with military intelligence inevitably
bring disturbing possibilities to mind.
Even more ominous than possible ties between UFO cults and the intelligence
community are the cults' links with the shadowy I AM group, founded by Guy
Ballard in the 1930s[180]. According to researcher David Stupple, "If you look
at the contactee groups today, you'll see that most of the stable, larger ones
are actually neo-I AM groups, with some sort of tie to Ballard's organization."
[181] This cult, therefore, bears investigation.
Guy Ballard's "Mighty I AM Religious Activity," grew, in large part, out of
William Dudley Pelly's Silver Shirts, an American NAZI organization[182].
Although Ballard himself never openly proclaimed NAZI affiliation, his movement
was tinged with an extremely right-wing political philosophy, and in secret
meetings he "decreed" the death of President Franklin Roosevelt[183]. The I AM
philosophy derived from Theosophy, and in this author's estimation bears a
more-than-cursory resemblance to the Theosophically-based teachings that
informed the proto-NAZI German occult lodges[184].
After the war, Pelley (who had been imprisoned for sedition during the
hostilities) headed an occult-oriented organization call Soulcraft, based in
Noblesville, Indiana. Another Soulcraft employee was the controversial
contactee George Hunt Williamson (real name: Michel d'Obrenovic), who co-
authored UFOs CONFIDENTIAL with John McCoy, a proponent of the theory that a
Jewish banking conspiracy was preventing disclosure of the solution to the UFO
mystery[185]. Later, Williamson founded the I AM-oriented Brotherhood of the
Seven Rays in Peru[186]. Another famed contactee, George Van Tassel, was
associated with Pelley and with the notoriously anti-Semitic Reverend Wesley
Swift (founder of the group which metamorphosed into the Aryan nations).[187]
The most visible offspring of I AM is Elizabeth Clare Prophet's Church
Universal and Triumphant, a group best-known for its massive arms caches in
underground bunkers. CUT was recently exposed in COVERT ACTION INFORMATION
BULLETIN as a conduit of CIA funds[188], and according to researcher John
Judge, has ties to organizations allied to the World Anti-Communist League[189]
Prophet is becoming involved in abduction research and has sponsored present-
ations by Budd Hopkins and other prominent investigators. In his book THE
ARMSTRONG REPORT: ETs AND UFOs: THEY NEED US, WE DON'T NEED THEM[sic][190],
Virgil Armstrong directs troubled abductees toward Prophet's group. (Perhaps
not insignificantly, he also suggests that abductees plagued by implants
alleviate their problem by turning to "the I AM force" within.[191])
Another UFO channeller, Frederick Von Mierers, has promulgated both a cult
with a strong I AM orientation[192] and an apparent con-game involving over-
appraised gemstones. Mierers is an anti-Semite who contends that the Holocaust
never happened and that the Jews control the world's wealth.
UFORUM is a flying saucer organization popular with Los Angeles-area
abductees; its founder is Penny Harper, a member of a radical Scientology
breakaway group which connects the teachings of L. Ron ("Bob") Hubbard with
pronouncements against "The Illuminati" (a mythical secret society) and other
BETES NOIR familiar from right-wing conspiracy literature. Harper directs
members of her group to read THE SPOTLIGHT, an extremist tabloid (published by
Willis Carto's Liberty Lobby) which denies the reality of the Holocaust and
posits a "Zionist" scheme to control the world[193].
More than one unwary abductee has fallen in with groups such as those listed
above. It isn't difficult to imagine how some of these questionable groups
might mold an abductee's recollection of his experience -- and perhaps help
direct his future actions.
Some modern abductees, with otherwise-strong claims, claim encounters with
blond, "Nordic" aliens reminiscent of the early contactee era. Surely, the
"Nordic" appearance of these aliens sprang from the dubious spiritual tradition
of Van Tassell, Ballard, Pelley, McCoy, etc. Why, then, are some modern
abductees seeing these very same other-worldly UEBERMENSCHEN?
One abductee of my acquaintance claims to have had beneficial experiences
with these "blond" aliens -- who, he believes, came originally from the
Pleiades. Interestingly, in the late 1960s, the psychopathically anti-Semitic
Rev. Wesley Swift predicted this odd twist in the abduction tale. In a
broadcast "sermon," he spoke at length about UFOs, claiming that there were
"good" aliens and "bad" aliens. The good ones, he insisted, were tall, blond
Aryans -- WHO HAILED FROM THE PLEIADES. He made this pronouncement long before
the current trends in abduction lore.
Could some of the abductions be conducted by an extreme right-wing element
within the national security establishment? Disagreeable as the possibility
seems, we should note that the "lunatic right" is represented in all other
walks of life; certainly hard-rightists have taken positions within the
military-intelligence complex as well.
GROUNDS FOR FURTHER RESEARCH
John Keel's ground-breaking OPERATION TROJAN HORSE, written in an era when
abductees still came under the category of "contactees," includes the following
intriguing data, gleaned from Keel'a extensive field work:
Contactees often find themselves suddenly miles from home
without knowing how they got there. They either have induced
amnesia, wiping out all memory of the trip, or they were taken
over by some means and made the trip in a blacked-out state.
Should they encounter a friend on the way, the friend would
probably note that their eyes seemed glassy and their behavior
seemed peculiar. But if the friend spoke to them, he might
receive a curt reply.
In the language of the contactees this process is called
being used...I have known silent contactees to disappear from
their homes for long periods, and when they returned, they
had little or no recollection of where they had been. One
girl sent me a postcard from the Bahama Islands -- which
surprised me because I knew she was very poor. When she
returned, she told me that she had only one memory of the
trip. She said she remembered getting off a jet at an air-
port -- she souldn't recall getting on the jet or making the
trip -- and there "Indians" met her and took her baggage...
The next thing she knew she was back home again[194].
Puzzling indeed -- unless one has read THE CONTROL OF CANDY JONES, which
speaks of Candy's "blacked out" periods, during which she travelled to Taiwan
as a CIA courier, adopting her second personality. The mind control explana-
tion perfectly solves all the mysteries in the above excerpt -- save, perhaps,
the odd remark about "Indians."
Hickson and Mendez' UFO CONTACT AT PASCAGOULA contains the interesting
information that Charles Hickson awakes at night feeling that he is on the
verge of re-awakening some terribly important memory connected with his
encounter -- yet ostensibly he can account for every moment of his adventure.
Hickson also received a letter from an apparent abductee who claims that
the grey aliens are actually automatons of some sort -- perhaps an unconscious
recognition of the unreality of the hypnotically-induced "cover story."[195]
In this light, the film version of COMMUNION -- whose screenplay was written
by Whitley Strieber -- takes on a new interest: The abduction sequences contain
inexplicable images indicating that the "greys" are really props, or masks.
COMMUNION and TRANSFORMATION contain passages detailing what seems to be a
hazily-recalled Candy-Jones-style espionage adventure, in which Strieber was
shanghaied by a "coach" and a "nurse" (both human beings) who apparently
drugged him[196]. Recall the example of Keel's informants. Moreover,
TRANSFORMATION contains lengthy descriptions of alien beings working in
apparent collusion with human beings.
Abductee Christa Tilton also recalls both human beings and aliens playing
a part in her experience. Ever since her abduction, she claims, she has been
"shadowed" by a mysterious federal agent she calls John Wallis[197]. Christa's
husband, Tom Adams, has confirmed Wallis' existence[198].
In his REPORT ON COMMUNION, Ed Conroy -- who seems to have become a
participant in, and not merely an observer of, the phenomenon -- describes
harassment by helicopters, which as we have already noted, seems to be quite
a common occurrence in abductee situations[199]. Researchers blithely assume
that these incidents represent governmental attempts to spy on UFO percipients.
But this assertion is ridiculous. Helicopters are extremely expensive to
operate, and the engines of espionage have perfected numerous alternative
methods to gather information. After all, we now have a fairly extensive
bibliography of FBI, CIA, and military efforts to spy on numerous movements
favoring domestic social change. Why have no veterans of CHAOS or COINTELPRO
(either victim or victimizer) spoken of helicopters? Obviously the choppers
serve some other purpose beyond mere surveillance. One possibility might be
the propagation of electromagnetic waves which might affect the perceptions/
behaviors of an implanted individual. (Indeed, I have heard rumors of heli-
copters being used in electronic "crowd control" operations in Vietnam and
elsewhere; alas, the information is far from hard.)
Contactee Eldon Kerfoot has written of his suspicions that human mani-
pulators, not aliens, may be the ultimate puppeteers engineering his
experiences. He describes a sudden compulsion to kill a fellow veteran of
the Korean conflict -- a man Kerfoot had no logical reason to distrust or
dislike, yet whom he "sensed" to have been a traitor to his country. For-
tunately, the assassination never materialized[200]. But the situation exactly
parallels incidents described in released ARTICHOKE documents concerning the
remote hypnotic induction of anti-social behavior.
One last speculation:
Renato Vesco's INTERCEPT BUT DON'T SHOOT[201] outlines a fascinating
scenario for the "secret weapon" hypothesis of UFOs. Vesco points out that
if these devices are one day to be used in a superpower conflict [or in
suppression of civilian revolution, against, say, S&L taxation -jpg], the
attacking power would be well-served by the myth of the UFO as an extra-
terrestrial craft, for the besieged nation would not know the true nature of
its opponent. Perhaps, then, one purpose of the UFO abductions is to engender
and maintain the legend of the little grey aliens. For the hidden manipula-
tors, the abductions could be, in and of themselves, a propaganda coup.
FINAL THOUGHTS
I do not insist dogmatically on the scenario that I have outlined. I do not
wish to dissuade abduction researchers from exploring other avenues -- indeed,
I strongly encourage such work to continue. Nor can I easily account for some
aspects of the abduction narratives -- for example, any suggestions I could
offer concerning the reports of genetic experimentation would be extremely
speculative.
But I DO insist on a fair hearing of this hypothesis. Criticism is
encouraged; that which does not destroy my thesis will make it stronger. I ask
only that my critics refrain from intellectual laziness; mere differences in
world-view do not constitute a valid attack. God is found in the details.
I recognize the dangers inherent in making this thesis public. New and
distressing abductee confabulations may result. I would prefer that the
audience for this paper be restricted to abduction RESEARCHERS, not victims,
who might be unduly influenced. However, in a society that prides itself on
ostensibly free press, such restrictions are unthinkable. Therefore, I can
only beg any abduction victims who might read this paper to attempt a super-
human objectivity. The thesis I have outlined is promising, and (should
trepanation ever provide us with an example of an actual abductee implant)
susceptible of proof. But mine is not the only hypothesis. The abductee's
unrewarding task is to report what he or she has experienced as truthfully as
possible, untainted by outside speculation.
Whether or not future investigation proves UFO abductions to be a product
of mind control experimentation, I feel that this paper has, at least,
provided evidence of a serious danger facing those who hold fast to the ideals
of individual freedom. We cannot long ignore this menace.
A spectre haunts the democratic nations -- the spectre of TECHNOFASCISM.
All the powers of the espionage empire and the scientific establishment have
entered into an unholy alliance to evoke this spectre: Psychiatrist and spy,
Dulles and Delgado, microwave specialists and clandestine operators.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste -- and a worse thing to commandeer.
NOTES
1. Budd Hopkins, MISSING TIME (New York: Richard Marek Publishers, 1981)
and INTRUDERS (New York: Random House, 1987).
2. Whitley Strieber, COMMUNION (New York: Beech Tree Books, 1987).
3. Cannon, "Psychiatric Abuse of UFO Witness," UFO magazine, vol. 3,
no. 5 (December, 1988)
4. Philip Klass, UFO ABDUCTIONS: A DANGEROUS GAME (Buffalo: Prometheus
Books, 1988). Klass makes some sharp observations, which are undercut by his
refusal to interview abductees directly. The work has no footnotes and
depends heavily on the work of Dr. Martin "Bob" Orne -- of whom more anon.
5. See bibliography.
6. New York: Bantam Books, 1979.
7. See generally PROJECT MKULTRA, THE CIA'S PROGRAM OF RESEARCH IN
BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION, joint hearing before the Select Committee on Health and
Scientific Research of the Committee on Human Resources, Unites States Senate
(Washington: Government Printing Office, 1977).
8. Robert Eringer, "Secret Agent Man," ROLLING STONE, 1985.
9. John Marks interview with Victor Marchetti (Marks files, available at
the National Security Archives, Washington, D.C.).
10. In an interview with John Marks, hypnosis expert Milton Kline, a
veteran of clandestine experimentation in this field, averred that his work
for the government continued. Since the interview took place in 1977, years
after the CIA allegedly halted mind control research, we must conclude either
that the CIA lied, or that another agency continued the work. In another
interview with Marks, former Air Force-CIA liaison L. Fletcher Prouty con-
firmed that the Department of Defense ran studies either in conjunction with
or parallel to those operated by the CIA. (Marks files.)
11. Estabrooks, HYPNOSIS (New York: E.P. Dutton & Co., Inc., 1957
[revised edition]), 13-14.
12. A copy of this letter can be found in the Marks files.
13. Estabrooks attracted an eclectic group of friends, including J.
Edgar Hoover and Alan Watts.
14. Interview with daughter Doreen Estabrooks, Marks files, Washington,
D.C.
15. Martin A. Lee and Bruce Shlain, ACID DREAMS (New York: Grove Press,
1985) 3-4; Marks, THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE", 6-8
16. Marks, ibid. 4-6.
17. Edward Hunter, BRAINWASHING IN RED CHINA (New York: Vanguard Press,
1951.). Hunter invented the term "brainwashing" in a September 24, 1950 Miami
NEWS article.
18. "Japan's Germ Warfare Experiments," THE GLOBE AND MAIL (Toronto),
May 19, 1982.
19. Walter Bowart, OPERATION MIND CONTROL (New York: Dell, 1978), 191-2,
quoting Warren Commission documents. We cannot fairly derive from this state-
ment a sanguine attitude about PRESENT Soviet capabilities; in this field,
even outdated technology suffices for mischief.
20. Marks, THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE", 60-61. A folk
entymology has it that the "MK" of MKULTRA stands for "Mind Kontrol." Accord-
ing to Marks, TSS prefixed the cryptonyms of all its projects with these
initials. Note, though, that MKULTRA was preceded by a still-mysterious TSS
program called QKHILLTOP.
21. Marks, THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE", 224-229. Seven
MKULTRA subprojects were continued, under TSS supervision, as MKSEARCH. This
project ended in 1972. CIA apologists often proclaim that "brainwashing"
research ceased in either 1962 or 1972; these blandishments refer to the TSS
projects, not to the ORD work, which remains TERRA INCOGNITA for independent
researchers. Marks discovered that the ORD research was so voluminous that
retrieving documents via FOIA would have proven unthinkably expensive.
22. For a description of the research into parapsychology, see Ronald
M. McRae's MIND WARS (New York: St. Martin's Press, 1984). The best book
available on a subject which awaits a truly authoritative text.
23. Abduction researcher and hypnotherapist Miranda Park, of Lancaster,
California, reports that she has viewed such anomalies in abductee MRI scans.
See also Whitley Strieber, TRANSFORMATION (New York: Beech Tree Books, 1988)
246-247. At this writing, both Strieber and Hopkins report initially promising
results in their efforts to document the presence of these "extras" in
abductees.
24. Allegedly, the experiment took place in 1964. However, in WERE WE
CONTROLLED? (New Hyde Park, NY: University Books, 1967), the pseudonymous
"Lincoln Lawrence" makes an interesting argument (on page 36) that the
demonstration took place some years earlier.
25. New York: Harper and Row, 1969. Much of Delgado's work was funded
by the Office of Naval Intelligence, a common conduit for CIA funds during the
1950s and '60s. (Gordon Thomas' JOURNEY INTO MADNESS (New York: Bantam, 1989)
misleadingly implies that CIA interest in Delgado's work began in 1972.)
26. J.M.R. "Bob" Delgado. "Intracerebral Radio Stimulation and Recording
in Completely Free Patients," PSYCHOTECHNOLOGY (Robert L. Schwitzgebel and
Ralph K. Schwitzgebel, editors; New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1973):
195.
27. David Krech, "Controlling the Mind Controllers," THINK 32 (July-
August), 1966.
28. Delgado, PHYSICAL CONTROL OF THE MIND
29. Delgado, "Intracerebral Radio Stimulation and Recording in Completely
free patients," 195.
30. Note, for example, Charles Hickson's account of the Pascagoula
Incident. Charles Hickson and William Mendez, UFO CONTACT AT PASCOGOULA
(Tuscon: Wendelle C. Stevens, 1983).
31. John Ranleigh, THE AGENCY (New York: Simon and Shuster, 1986): 208.
Marchetti casts this story in the form of an amusing anecdote: After much time
and expense, a cat was suitably trained and prepared -- only, on its first
assignment, to be run over by a taxi. Marchetti neglects to point out that
nothing stopped the Agency from getting another cat. Or from using a human
being.
32. Of course, this suggestion raises the knotty question of whether the
abductees suffer from a form of schizophrenia, which may also be characterized
by "voices." I refer the reader to the work of Hopkins, Strieber, Thomas
Bullard, and others who have described the difficulties of ascribing all
abductions to psychotic states.
33. Alan W. Scheflin and Edward M. Opton, Jr., THE MIND MANIPULATORS
(London: Paddington Press, 1978), 347.
34. Thomas, JOURNAY INTO MADNESS, 276.
35. James Olds, "Hypothalamic Substrates of Reward," PHYSIOLOGICAL
REVIEWS, 1962, 42:554; "Emotional Centers in the Brain," SCIENCE JOURNAL,
1967, 3 (5).
36. Vernon Mark and Frank Ervin, VIOLENCE AND THE BRAIN (New York:
Harper and Row, 1970), chapter 12, excerpted in INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND THE
FEDERAL ROLE IN BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION, prepared by the Staff of the Subcom-
mittee on Constitutional Rights of the Committee of the Judiciary, United
States Senate (Washington: Government Printing Office, 1974).
37. John Lilly, THE SCIENTIST (Berkeley, Ronin Publishing, 1988 [revised
edition]), 90. Monkeys allowed to stimulate themselves continually via ESB
brought themselves to orgasm once every three minutes, sixteen hours a day.
Scientific gatherings throughout the world saw motion pictures of these
experiments, which surely made spectacular cinema.
38. Scheflin and Opton, THE MIND MANIPULATORS, 336-337. Heath even
monitored his patient's brain responses during the subject's first heterosexual
encounter. Such is the nature of the brave new world before us.
39. Robert L. Schwitzgebel and Richard M. Bird, "Sociotechnical Design
Factors in Remote Instrumentation with Humans in Natural Environments,"
BEHAVIOR RESEARCH METHODS AND INSTRUMENTATION, 1970, 2, 99-105.
40. Thomas, JOURNEY INTO MADNESS, 277. In the BEHAVIOR RESEARCH METHODS
AND INSTRUMENTATION article referenced above, Schwitzgebel details how the
radio signals may be fed into a telephone via a modem and thus analyzed by a
computer anywhere in the world.
41. Scheflin and Opton, THE MIND MANIPULATORS, 347-349.
42. Louis Tackwood and the Citizen's Research and Investigation Commit-
tee, THE GLASS HOUSE TAPES (New York: Avon, 1973), 226.
43. Perry London, BEHAVIOR CONTROL (New York: Harper and Row, 1969), 145
44. Scheflin and Opton, THE MIND MANIPULATORS, 351-353; Tackwood, THE
GLASS HOUSE TAPES, 228.
45. "Beepers in kids' heads could stop abductors," Las Vegas SUN, Oct.
27, 1987.
46. Lilly, THE SCIENTIST, 91.
47. Marks, THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE", 151-154.
48. Interestingly, Lilly has come out of the closet as a sort of proto-
Strieber; THE SCIENTIST recounts his close interaction with alien (though not
necessarily extraterrestrial) forces which he labels "solid state entities."
49. The story of Deep Trance, an MKULTRA "insider" who provided
invaluable information, is somewhat involved. I do not know who Trance is/was
and Marks may not know either. He contacted Trance via the writer of an
article published shortly before research on THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN
CANDIDATE" began, addressing his informant "Dear Source whose anonymity I
respect." I respect it too -- hence my reticence to name the aforementioned
article, which may mark a trail to Trance. The fact that I have not followed
this trail would not prevent others from doing so. [And if Trance were a
CIA disinformation source a la William Cooper, this is precisely the behavior
they would count on. -jpg]
50. London, BEHAVIOR CONTROL, 139.
51. See generally, UFO magazine, Vol. 4, No. 2; especially the
interesting contribution by Whitley Strieber.
52. Lawrence, WERE WE CONTROLLED?, 36-37; Anita Gregory, "Introduction
to Leonid L. Vasilev's EXPERIMENTS IN DISTANT INFLUENCE," PSYCHIC WARFARE:
FACT OR FICTION (editor: John White) (Nottinghamshire: Aquarian, 1988) 34-57.
53. Lawrence, WERE WE CONTROLLED?, 38.
54. Bowart, OPERATION MIND CONTROL, 261-264.
55. Ibid. 263.
56. Lawrence, WERE WE CONTROLLED?, 52.
57. HUMAN DRUG TESTING BY THE CIA, 202.
58. Note especially the Supreme Court's decision in CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE
AGENCY ET Al. V. SIMS, ET AL. (No. 83-1075; decided April 16, 1986). The
egregious and dangerous majority opinion in this case held that disclosure of
the names of scientists and institutions involved in MKULTRA posed an
"unacceptable risk of revealing 'intelligence sources.' The decisions of the
[CIA] Director, who must of course be familiar with 'the whole picture,' as
judges are not, are worthy of great deference...it is conceivable that the
mere explanation of why information must be withheld can convey valuable
information to a foreign intelligence agency." How do we square this continu-
ing need for secrecy with the CIA's protestations that MKULTRA achieved little
success, that the studies were conducted within the Nueremberg statues govern-
ing medical experiments, and that the research was made available in the open
literature?
59. Letter, P.A. Lindstrom to Robert Naeslund, July 27, 1983; copy
available from Martti Koski, Kiilinpellontie 2, 21290 Rusko, Finland. Lind-
strom writes that he fully agrees with Lincoln Lawrence, author of WERE WE
CONTROLLED?
60. Bowart, OPERATION MIND CONTROL, 265. I have attempted without
success to contact Dr. Lindstrom.
61. Bowart, OPERATION MIND CONTROL, 233-249. This interview was
repinted without attribution in a bizarre compendium of UFO rumors called
THE MATRIX, compiled by "Valdamar Valerian" (actually John Grace, allegedly
a captain working for Air Force intelligence).
62. Robert Anton Wilson, "Adventures with Head Hardware," MAGICAL BLEND,
23 [of course], July 1989.
63. Michael Hutchison, MEGA BRAIN (New York: Ballantine, 1986); Gerald
Oster, "Auditory Beats in the Brain," SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, September, 1973.
64. Marilyn Ferguson, THE BRAIN REVOLUTION (New York: Taplinger, 1973),
90.
65. Ibid., 91-92. The presence of delta in a waking subject can
indicate pathology.
66. Bio-Pacer promotional and price sheet, available from Lindemann
Laboratories, 3463 State Street, #264, Santa Barbara, CA 93105.
67. Hutchison, MEGA BRAIN, 117-118. Compare Light's observations about
"the grant game" to Sid Gottlieb's protestations that nearly all "mind con-
trol" research was openly published.
68. Thomas Martinez and John Gunther, THE BROTHERHOOD OF MURDER (New
York: McGraw-Hill, 1988), 230.
69. Interview, Sandy Monroe of the Los Angeles office of the Christic
Institute.
70. See generally Paul Brodeur, THE ZAPPING OF AMERICA (Toronto, George
J. MacLeod, 1977).
71. Until recently, the American Embassy was on a street named after the
composer.
72. It was finally determined that the microwaves were used to receive
transmissions from bugs planted within the embassy. DARPA director George H.
Heimeier went on record stating that PANDORA was never designed to study
"microwaves as a surveillance tool." See Anne Keeler, "Remote Mind Control
Technology," FULL DISCLOSURE #15. I would note that the Soviet embassy was
"bugged and waved" in Canada during the 1950s, and according to the Los
Angeles TIMES (June 5, 1989), the Soviet embassy in Britain had been similarly
affected.
73. Ronald I. Adams R.A. Williams, BIOLOGICAL EFFECTS OF ELECTROMAGNETIC
RADIATION (RADIOWAVES AND MICROWAVES) EURASIAN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES, (Defense
Intelligence Agency, March 1976.) Brodeur notes that much of the work ascribed
to the Soviets in this report was actually first accomplished by scientists in
the United States. Keeler argues that this report constitutes an example of
"mirror imaging" -- i.e., parading domestic advances as a foreign threat, the
better to pry funding from a suitably-fearful Congress.
74. Keeler, "Remote Mind Control Technology."
75. R.J. MacGregor, "A Brief Survey of Literature Relating to Influence
of Low Intensity Microwaves on Nervous Function" (Santa Monica: RAND Corpor-
ation, 1970).
76. Keeler, "Remote Mind Control Technology."
77. Larry Collins, "Mind Control," PLAYBOY, January 1990.
78. Allan H. Frey, "Behavioral Effects of Electromagnetic Energy,"
SYMPOSIUM ON BIOLOGICAL EFFECTS AND MEASUREMENTS OF RADIO FREQUENCIES/MICRO-
WAVES, DeWitt G. Hazzard, editor (U.S. Department of Health, Education and
Welfare, 1977).
79. quoted in THE APPLICATION OF TESLA'S TECHNOLOGY IN TODAY'S WORLD
(Montreal: Lafferty, Hardwood & Partners, Ltd., 1978).
80. Keeler, "Remote Mind Control Technology."
81. L. George Lawrence, "Electronics and Brain Control," POPULAR
ELECTRONICS, July 1973.
82. Susan Schiefelbein, "The Invisible Threat," SATURDAY REVIEW,
September 15, 1979.
83. E. Preston, "Studies on the Nervous System, Cardiovascular Function
and Thermoregulation," BIOLOGICAL EFFECTS OF RADIO FREQUENCY AND MICROWAVE
RADIATION, edited by H.M. Assenheim (Ottawa, Canada: National Research Council
of Canada, 1979), 138-141.
84. Robert O. Becker, THE BODY ELECTRIC (New York: William Morrow, 1985)
318-319.
85. Ibid.
86. Ibid., 321.
87. See Bowart's OPERATION MIND CONTROL, page 218, for an interesting
example of this "rationalization" process at work in the case of Sirhan
Sirhan, who was convicted for the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy. In
prison, Sirhan was hypnotized by Dr. Bernard Diamond, who instructed Sirhan
to climb the bars of his cage like a monkey. He did so. After the trance
was removed, Sirhan was shown tapes of his actions; he insisted that he "acted
like a monkey" of his own free will -- he claimed he wanted the exercise.
88. Keeler suggests that the proposal was revealed only because
Schapitz' sensationalistic implications may have worked to his discredit --
and therefore hide -- the REAL research. Personally, I don't accept this
argument, but I respect Keeler's instincts enough to repeat her caveat here.
89. Margaret Cheney's TESLA: A MAN OUT OF TIME (New York: Dell, 1981),
the most reliable book in the sea of wild speculation surrounding this
extraordinary scientist, confirms Tesla's early work with the psychological
effects of electromagnetic radiation. See especially pages 101-104; note also
the afterword, in which we learn that certain government agencies have kept
important research by Tesla hidden from the general public.
90. Noted in Lawrence, WERE WE CONTROLLED?, 29.
91. Particularly one Thomas Bearden of Huntsville, Alabama; I have in my
possession a document written by Bearden associate Andrew Michrowski which
identifies Bearden as an intelligence agent for an undisclosed agency.
92. Kathleen McAuliffe, "The Mind Fields," OMNI magazine, February 1985.
93. May 5, 1985.
94. I refer to an individual who later wrote a very clear-headed and
thoughtful letter to Dr. Paul Lowinger, who has graciously made his files
available to me. For now, I feel compelled to withold this person's name.
95. Cameron became president of the American Psychiatric Association,
the Canadian Psychiatric Association, and the World Association of Psychia-
trists, He previously sat on the Nueremberg panel, helping to draw up the
statutes governing ethical medical behavior!
96. In particular, Opton and Scheflin's overview, though excellent in
scope and detail, continually seeks reassurring interpretations of evidence
which points toward more distressing conclusions.
97. Martin T. Orne, "Can a hypnotized subject be compelled to carry out
otherwise unacceptable behavior?" INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF CLINICAL AND EXPERI-
MENTAL HYPNOSIS, 1972, Vol. 20, 101-117.
98. Marks mentions, in a letter to Orne, the latter's claim to have been
an unwitting participant in subproject 84. Yet the papers released concerning
subproject 84 clearly establish the Agency's willingness to put Orne in the
know; Orne later admitted to Marks that he was made aware of his CIA sponsor-
ship (Marks, THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE", 172-173). In an
interview with Marks, Orne discounted the story of Candy Jones (which we shall
recount later) by insisting that if such an experiment had occurred "someone
in some agency would have come to me." Why would they come to him about a
super-secret project, unless Orne had a high security clearance and worked
extensively with intelligence agencies? Note also that Orne conducted exten-
sive studies for the Office of Naval Research from June 1, 1968 to May 31,
1971. He has also been funded by DARPA. Moreover, I consider noteworthy the
fact that Orne somehow became president of the Society for Clinical and
Experimental Hypnosis despite the fact that the organization had decided not
to have a president. (This fact was related to Marks by a prominent hypnosis
specialist in an off-the-record interview that I probably wasn't supposed to
see.)
99. The story has been told many times. See Turner and Christian's THE
KILLING OF ROBERT F. KENNEDY, 207-208; also Peter J. Reiter, ANTISOCIAL OR
CRIMINAL ACTS AND HYPNOSIS (Springfield, Illinois: Charles C. Thomas, 1958).
100. John G. Watkins, "Antisocial behavior under hypnosis: Possible or
impossible?" INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL FOR CLINICAL AND EXPERIMENTAL HYPNOSIS,
1972, Vol. 20, 95-100.
101. Milton H. Erickson, "An experimental investigation of the possible
anti-social use of hypnosis," PSYCHIATRY, 1939, vol. 2. Erickson argues that
if a hypnotist has convinced his subject to misperceive reality, then result-
ing actions cannot be considered "anti-social," for the actions would be
acceptable within the subject's internal reality construct. This argument
strikes me as semantic quibbling. [not me -jpg]
102. See generally Flo Conway and Jim Seigelman, SNAPPING (New York:
Lippincott, 1978).
103. Lee and Schlain, ACID DREAMS, 8-9.
104. John Marks interview with Victor Marchetti, December 19, 1977
(Marks files).
105. Martin T. Orne, "On the Mechanisms of Posthypnotic Amnesia," THE
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF CLINICAL AND EXPERIMENTAL HYPNOSIS, 1966, vol. 14,
121-134. Orne's work with post-hypnotic amnesia was funded by NIMH, the Air
Force Office of Scientific Research, and the Office of Naval Research. I
should like to hear what innocent explanation, if any, the Air Force has to
offer to explain their interest in post-hypnotic amnesia. ["We must not allow
a post-hypnotic-amnesia gap!" of course. -jpg]
106. Bowart, OPERATION MIND CONTROL, 242-243.
107. Obviously Allan Dulles. This may have been a hypnotically-induced
delusion; on the other hand, Dulles' legendary sexual rapacity makes this claim
rather less unlikely than one might first assume. [WRONG! Obviously, this
reference is to J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, chief MC of the Church of SubGenius; the
initials A.D. refer to one of his pseudonyms, Adman Destructor. "Bob"'s
sexual rapacity is the stuff of SubLegend. -jpg]
108. Always the best indicator of whether or not hypnosis is genuine;
I can't understand why Orne didn't use this test in the Blanchi case.
109. Herbert Spiegel, "Hypnosis and evidence: Help or hindrance," ANN.
N.Y. ACAD. SCI.; 1980, 347, 73-85.
110. See, for example, Kroger, HYPNOSIS AND BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION, 21-22
111. See especially Klass, UFO ABDUCTIONS: A DANGEROUS GAME, 60-61.
Orne, interviewed here, makes reference to the work summarized in his article
"The use and misuse of hypnosis in court" (INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF CLINICAL
HYPNOSIS, 1979, vol. 27, 311-341.)
112. Klass argues that ufologists, in conducting hypnotic regression
sessions, inadvertently cue their subjects. A close reading of his text
reveals that he never proves or claims that such "cues" have taken place in
any individual instance; he simply believes that cueing MIGHT have occurred.
Had Klass been more willing to deal with abductees directly, he might have
found evidence of cause and effect; as it stands, his argument really amounts
to no more than a suggestion. For all that, I find his ideas regarding the
running of "clean" hypnotic regression sessions potentially valuable.
113. Marks, THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE", 34-37.
114. Donald Bain, THE CONTROL OF CANDY JONES (Chicago, Playboy Press,
1976).
115. The use of hypnotized couriers in warfare goes back to the 19th
century.
116. Estabrooks, HYPNOTISM, 193-214.
117. John Marks interview with Milton Kline, December 22, 1977 (Marks
files). In another interview, Professor Clare Young (a colleague of Esta-
brooks' at Colgate University) confirmed that Estabrooks' hypnosis work for
the government has never been published.
118. Or could her marriage have been part of the program? "Long John,"
as he was popularly known, was famous in UFO circles, and had provided a forum
for such early-day contactees as Howard Menger. He also knew Jackie Gleason,
a prominent (if unlikely) name in the "crashed disc" rumor vaults. Could
Candy have been assigned to discover what Nebel knew?
119. Marks files. John Marks did excellent work on the Candy Jones story;
he erred -- almost unforgivably -- on the side of conservatism when he refused
to include information about this incident in his book. I know the name of
the institute involved; however, since Candy saw fit to keep this aspect of
her story secret (probably for sound legal reasons), I shall follow her lead.
120. Scheflin and Opton, THE MIND MANIPULATORS, 446-447.
121. Interviews, Marks files. One of Marks' informants offered the
interesting speculation that Candy's torture sessions were not conducted in
the field, but in the lab -- her entire mission might have been a hypno-
programmed fantasy.
122. The information about Candy's CIA files stems from a telephone
interview with Candy Jones. A problem looms here: CIA cover stories unravel
like the skin of an onion; once you remove the outer layer, the next lie is
revealed. [For this reason, I don't think this paper "reveals" the whole
truth; that, I suspect, is far worse. -jpg] In the case of Candy Jones, the
substrata of buncombe involves allegations that she WILLINGLY complied with
the CIA, and used Jensen's hypnosis experiments as a rationalization for her
compliance. Such is the explanation offered by certain of Marks' informants;
alas, Opton and Scheflin seem to have bought this line. Anyone familiar with
the vile acts of self-degradation to which Candy's programmers subjected her
will laugh this story out of court. No one, short of a severely psychotic
masochist, would willingly undergo what she went through.
123. Marks files.
124. William Kroger, CLINICAL AND EXPERIMENTAL HYPNOSIS (Philadelphia:
Lippincott, 1963), 299.
125. Recently, ufologist Jim Moseley, an acquaintance of Candy's, has
claimed that an unidentified source on Nebel's "inner circle" once, off-the-
record, pronounced Candy's story "a crock." This assertion deserves careful
and respectful consideration. Still, Moseley won't identify his source, and
we have no way of telling if this insider spoke from instinct or certain
knowledge, or indeed, what he really meant. Did he feel Candy was fantasizing
or fibbing? If the former, why did her hallucinations match details of
MKULTRA released only after publication of her book? If the latter, how are
we to explain the many hypnotic regression tapes, at least some of which were
made available to outside investigators? (Fairly elaborate, for a hoax.) In
any case, how could Candy have known the fact (confirmed by Marks' associates)
that Kroger taught "Jensen" at a certain West-coast institute? Why, if the
story was "a crock," would Candy risk libel suits by naming -- to associates
and investigators, if not to the general public -- real-life hypnotherapists?
All in all, I would suggest that Moseley's "insider" was speaking glibly, and
did not know the true facts. [Or was speaking disinformationally. -jpg]
126. Philadelphia, Lippincott, 1976.
127. Ibid., 415.
128. Similar paranoid outbreaks led to the dissolution of Dr. Richard
Neal's UFO abductee group in Los Angeles, according to a phone interview I had
with Dr. Neal.
129. Affidavit of Dr. Simpson-Kallas in the case of Sirhan-Sirhan, 1973;
see Bowart, OPERATION MIND CONTROL, 225.
130. All true MPs have experienced some form of abuse or trauma, psycho-
logical or physical, during childhood.
131. One was ritually abused in an occult setting. If I were a "spy-
chiatrist" scouting potential fodder for mind control experiments, I would
seek out abused children from military families. (A military background
would ensure that the "right" doctor gets access to the child.) Abduction
researchers should look for such a pattern.
132. I refer here to the vast upsurge in alien abductions which took
place that year; see generally Kevin Randle, THE OCTOBER SCENARIO (Middle
Coast, 1988). Of course, abductions (or, according to my hypothesis, dis-
guised mind control operations) occurred previous to this year.
133. John Marks interview with Milton Kline, December 22, 1977 (Marks
files).
134. Brenda Butler ET AL., SKY CRASH, expanded edition (London: Grafton
Books, 1986), 305-321, 354-355.
135. Telephone interview with Nancy Wright.
136. Telephone interview with Miranda Parks.
137. William Moore, "UFOs and the U.S. Government," FOCUS, vol. 4,
June 30, 1989. Moore's role in the affair strikes me as highly questionable,
even scandalous -- although at least here we have one instance of direct and
irrefutable "insider" testimony of government harassment.
138. Some have also raised questions about his psychiatric treatment
of Oswald assassin Jack Ruby. I find it odd that a CIA mind control veteran
-- who did NOT reside or practice in Dallas -- should have been assigned to the
Ruby case.
139. Samiel Chavkin, THE MIND STEALERS (New York: Houghton Mifflin,
1978), 96-107.
140. Raymond Fowler, THE ANDREASSON AFFAIR (New York: Prentice Hall,
1979).
141. New York: Warner Books, 1989; 198-202.
142. Ruth Montgomery, ALIENS AMONG US (Ballantine, 1985), 49. My article
"Psychiatric Abuse of UFO Witness," referred to earlier, also documents this
phenomenon.
143. Chung-Kwang Chou and Arthur W. Guy, "Quantization of Microwave
Biological Effects," SYMPOSIUM OF BIOLOGICAL EFFECTS AND MEASUREMENT OF RADIO
FREQUENCY/MICROWAVES, edited by Dewitt G. Hazzard (U.S. Department of Health,
Education and Welfare, 1977).
144. MIAMI HERALD, May 28, 1984 and June 6, 1984; NATIONAL EXAMINER,
vol. 22, no. 18, April 30, 1985. Although the EXAMINER is a supermarket
tabloid, and therefore a questionable source, this periodical has rendered
researchers the service of printing the X-ray of Petit's brain, showing the
implant. [Ever heard of airbrushing? -jpg]
145. Los Angeles TIMES, March 28, 1988.
146. Raymond Fowler, THE ANDREASSON AFFAIR, PHASE TWO (Reward, 1982).
This book includes rare photographs of the unmarked helicopters which have
plagued this abduction victim and her family.
147. A mutual friend described for me an incident in which the former
SEAL, mistakenly perceiving a threat, almost instantly felled, and nearly
killed, a man twice his size. Whatever the truth of my informant's other
statements, he certainly has received advanced combat training.
148. Fenton Bresler, WHO KILLED JOHN LENNON? (New York: St. Martin's
Press, 1989), 45-46.
149. Bowart, OPERATION MIND CONTROL, 27-42.
150. Denise Winn, THE MANIPULATED MIND (London, Octagon Press, 1983),
72-73; Bresler, WHO KILLED JOHN LENNON?, 41; see generally: Peter Watson,
WAR ON THE MIND (London: Hutchison, 1978) (Watson broke the story on Narut
for the London TIMES).
151. Larry Collins, "Mind Control," PLAYBOY, January 1990.
152. John Marks interview with Milton Kline, December 22, 1977 (Marks
files).
153. Richard A. Gabriel, NO MORE HEROES (New York: Hill and Wang, 1987),
124.
154. Ibid., 150-151.
155. See generally: Mark Lane, CONVERSATIONS WITH AMERICANS (Simon and
Shuster, 1970); A.J. Langguth, HIDDEN TERRORS (New York: Pantheon, 1978).
156. John G. Fuller, THE INTERRUPTED JOURNEY (New York: Dell, 1966).
157. This detail plays a part in other abductions -- for example, it
crops up in the Betty Andreasson Luca case. See Raymond Fowler, THE ANDREAS-
SON AFFAIR (New York: Bantam, 1980), 50-51.
158. Stanton Friedman, for example; the reader is referred to his 1988
Whole Life Expo lecture, "UFOs: A Cosmic Watergate."
159. THE BODY ELECTRIC, 196-202.
160. The Fish map has received wide discussion; for a representative
sampling, the reader is directed to the aforementioned Friedman lecture (note
158); Terence Dickenson, "The Zeti Reticuli Incident," ASTRONOMY, December,
1974; Klass, UFO ABDUCTIONS: A DANGEROUS GAME, 20-23; and John Rimmer, THE
EVIDENCE FOR ALIEN ABDUCTIONS (Weillingborough: Aquarian, 1984), 88-92.
Incidentally, Klass has proposed to Friedman a test regarding the ability to
recall such material accurately under hypnotic regression; Friedman, for
reasons best known to himself, declined the offer to participate.
161. Jacques Vallee, DIMENSIONS (Chicago: Contemporary, 1988), 266.
162. See Rimmer, THE EVIDENCE FOR ALIEN ABDUCTIONS, 91-92. None of this
is meant to denigrate Marjorie Fish, whose work has received universal praise.
163. Fuller, THE INTERRUPTED JOURNEY, 18-19.
164. Athan G. Theoharis and John Stuart Cox, THE BOSS: J. EDGAR HOOVER
AND THE GREAT AMERICAN INQUISITION (Philadelphia: Temple University Press,
1978), 325; Chip Berlet, "The Hunt for the Red Menace," COVERT ACTION INFORM-
ATION BULLETIN, no. 31 (winter, 1989); J. Edgar Hoover, COINTELPRO (memo),
March 4, 1968.
165. For example, Delgado's work pre-dates the Hill incident. Moreover,
one of the few pages released on MKULTRA subproject 119 concerns "a critical
review of the literature and scientific developments related to the recording,
analysis and interpretation of bioelectric signals from the human organism,
and activation of human behavior by remote means." The review took place in
1960-61. Presumably, the CIA wanted to DO something with the information so
derived.
166. "UFO Abductions Workshop," Whole Life Expo, March, 1988.
167. Ludwig Mayer, DIE TECHNIC DER HYPNOSE (Munich: J.H. Lehmanns
Verlag, 1953), 225; quoted in: Heinz E. Hammerschlag (translation: John Cohen)
HYPNOTISM AND CRIME (Hollywood: Wilshire Book Company, 1957), 24-25.
168. Numerous articles discuss this possibility; see, for example,
William C. Coe ET AL. "An Approach Toward Isolating Factors that Influence
Antisocial Conduct in Hypnosis," THE INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF CLINICAL AND
EXPERIMENTAL HYPNOSIS, 1972, vol XX, no. 2, 118-131, as well as other
reports in that issue. The difference between the laboratory and the "field"
settings may account for the success of Mayer's experiment and the apparent
failure of the "aliens." [Or perhaps Hopkins' informant REALIZED he was in
Miniluv and his autonomy was on the line; he reacted against this standard
Gestapo procedure as best he could: by turning the gun on O'Brien. -jpg]
169. For a description of a quite similar experiment conducted under
CIA auspices in 1954, see "CIA able to control minds by hypnosis, data shows,"
THE WASHINGTON POST, February 19, 1978.
170. Abductee interview, "Veronica." The reader will, I hope, forgive
my use of a pseudonym here. For the most part, I hope to deal in this work
with published cases. Suffice it to say, Veronica's testimony proved
fascinating, troubling, convoluted, problematical; in spite of all the
questions raised by this case, I still believe it to have substantial bearing
on my thesis. The reader will forgive me for severing relations with this
abductee before completing an investigation; she keeps a mini-armory next to
her bed.
171. Abductee interview, "Veronica," At one point, she ran an informal
abductee/contactee group; as a result, she was able to describe many other
cases to me. [Pseudomemories programmed into her? -jpg]
172. One ARTICHOKE document explicitly details a failed attempt to use
hypnosis to induce the assassination of a foreign leader. The document is
undated; the experiment took place January 8-January 15, 1954. Document
reproduced in CIA PAPERS, vol. 1 (Ann Arbor, MI: Capitol Information Asso-
ciates, 1986),39-41.
173. John Marks interview of Prof. Jack Tracktir (Marks files).
174. Jenny Randles, ABDUCTIONS (London: Robert Hale, 1988), 52-53.
175. As in, for example, the Palle Hardrup affair.
176. Private correspondence, Robert Durant to the author.
177. Abductee interview, "Polly." I won't give the facial details here;
suffice it to say that this abductor, like Margary's (noted earlier), has
something of the smell of greasepaint about him.
178. The base is mantioned in Ann Druffel's and D. Scott Rogo's THE
TUJUNGA CANYON CONTACTS (New York: Signet, 1989) [expanded edition], 157.
179. On the other hand, Armstrong asks us to accept his own channelled
material, so he would have an awkward time should he choose to challenge the
"psychic impressions" of others.
180. Jacques Vallee, MESSENGERS OF DECEPTION (Berkeley: And/Or Press,
1979), 192-193.
181. Curtis G. Fuller (editor), PROCEEDINGS OF THE FIRST INTERNATIONAL
UFO CONGRESS (New York: Warner Books, 1980), 307.
182. For information of Pelley, see John Roy Carlson, UNDER COVER (New
York: Dutton, 1943).
183. Gerald B. Bryan, PSYCHIC DICTATORSHIP IN AMERICA (Los Angeles:
Truth Research, 1940). An essential book-length expose of Ballardism. One
of Bryan's sources alleges that Ballard, before founding the I AM group, may
have practiced some variety of black magic.
184. The student should carefully compare the I AM dogma with the
available information on pre-Third Reich occultism; the best sources are James
Webb's masterful analyses, THE OCCULT ESTABLISHMENT and THE OCCULT UNDERGROUND
(La Salle, Illinois: Open Court Publishing, 1976).
185. Vallee, MESSENGERS OF DECEPTION, 192-194.
186. Even a cursory examination of Williamson's SECRET OF THE ANDES
(London: Neville Superman, 1961), written under the pseudonym Brother Philip,
will reveal the I AM connections.
187. Personal sources. Van Tassell's "Integration," a domed structure
allegedly built under extra-terrestrial guidance (located near 29 Palms,
California) prominently displays, to this day, key I AM artifacts such as the
portraits of Jesus and Saint Germain (commissioned by Ballard).
188. "The Afghan Arms Pipeline," COVERT ACTION INFORMATION BULLETIN, no.
30 (summer, 1988).
189. Telephone interview with John Judge.
190. Village of Oak Creek, Arizona: Entheos, 1989, 119. I can't recall
ever encountering another book title which contained so many grammatical
errors. Armstrong's accomplishment is genuinely impressive.
191. For further information on I AM, Prophet's organization, saucer
cults, and other groups, see the appropriate sections of J. Gordon Melton's
ENCYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN RELIGION.
192. Ruth Montgomery, ALIENS AMONG US (New York: Ballantine, 1985),
128-188.
193. Penny Harper, "Are Aliens Taking Over the Earth?" WHOLE LIFE TIMES,
January 1990.
194. John Keel, WHY UFOS: OPERATION TROJAN HORSE (New York: Manor Books,
1970) [paperback edition], 228.
195. Hickson and Mendez, UFO CONTACT AT PASCAGOULA, 242.
196. Strieber, COMMUNION, 134; TRANSFORMATION, 109.
197. "Contactee: Firsthand," UFO magazine, vol. 4, no. 2, 1989.
198. Telephone conversation, Tom Adams.
199. Ed Conroy, REPORT ON COMMUNION (New York: William Morrow, 1989),
365-385.
200. "Contactee: Firsthand," UFO magazine, vol. 3, no. 3.
201. New York: Zebra, 1971. See especially note 2, Chap. 9.
SELECTED BIBLIOGRAPHY ON MIND CONTROL
ACID DREAMS, by Martin A. Lee and Bruce Shlain (Grove, 1985). Outstanding
work on MKULTRA and drugs.
THE BODY ELECTRIC, by Robert Becker (Morrow, 1985). Important.
THE BRAIN CHANGERS, by Maya Pines (Signet, 1973). Outdated, but an excellent
chapter on the stimoceiver and related technologies.
BRAIN CONTROL, by Elliot Valenstein (John Wiley and Sons, 1973). Highly
conservative; outdated; still worth reading.
CIA PAPERS, compiled by Capitol Information Associates (POB 8275, Ann Arbor,
Michigan, 48107). Interesting selection of MKULTRA documents.
THE CONTROL OF CANDY JONES, by Donald Bain (Playboy Press, 1976). Mandatory
reading.
HUMAN DRUG TESTING BY THE CIA, hearings before the Subcommittee on Health and
Scientific Research on the Committee on Human Resources, United States
Senate (Government Printing Office, 1977).
HYPNOTISM, by George Estabrooks (Dutton, 1957). See especially the chapters
on hypnosis in warfare and crime. Some modern experts in clinical
hypnosis decry Estabrooks' work. These "experts" tend to have a history
of funding by CIA cut-outs and military intelligence. I suspect they
denounce Estabrooks not because his work was shoddy, but because he let
the cat out of the bag.
INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND THE FEDERAL ROLE IN BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION, by the Staff
of the Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights of the Committee of the
Judiciary, United States Senate (Government Printing Office, 1974).
MEGABRAIN, by Michael Hutchison (Ballantine, 1986). The only popular book
on modern mind machines.
MESSENGERS OF DECEPTION, by Jacques Vallee (And/Or, 1979). Vallee has been
criticized, correctly, for including in this book invented "conver-
sations" with a composite character he calls Major Murphy. But the
section on cults in this book bears a haunting resemblance to stories
I have heard in my own investigations.
THE MIND MANIPULATORS, by Opton and Scheflin (Paddington Press, 1978). Con-
servative, but extremely useful as a reference work.
MIND WARS, by Ronald McCrae (St. Martin's Press, 1984).
OPERATION MIND CONTROL, by Walter Bowart (Dell, 1978). The best single volume
on the subject. Difficult to find; indeed, this book's rapid disappear-
ance from bookstores and libraries has aroused the suspicions of some
researchers. (Tom David Books, POB 1107, Aptos, CA 95001, carries this
work.)
PHYSICAL CONTROL OF THE MIND, by Jose Delgado (Harper and Row, 1969). Outdated
but still essential.
PROJECT MKULTRA, joint hearing before the Select Committee on Health and
Scientific Research of the Committee on Human Resources, United States
Senate (Government Printing Office, 1977).
PSYCHIC WARFARE: FACT OR FICTION? edited by John White (Aquarian, 1988). See
especially Michael Rossman's contribution.
PSYCHOTECHNOLOGY, Robert L. Schwitzgebel and Ralph K. Schwitzgebel (Holt,
Rhinehart and Winston, 1973).
THE SCIENTIST, by John Lilly (expanded edition: Ronin, 1988). Bizarre --
Lilly is an ex-"brainwashing" specialist who claims to be in contact
with aliens. Is he controlled or controlling?
THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE", by John Marks (Bantam, 1978). An
invaluable book. However, many people have made the mistake of assuming
it tells the full story. It does not.
WERE WE CONTROLLED? by Lincoln Lawrence (University Books, 1967). Explores
possible connections to the JFK assassination. Dr. Petter Lindstrom's
endorsement of this work makes it mandatory reading.
WHO KILLED JOHN LENNON? by Fenton Bresler (St. Martin's Press, 1989).
Interesting thesis concerning the possible use of mind control on Mark
David Chapman. Better in its analysis of Chapman than in its history
of mind control. In my own work, I have encountered data which may
help confirm Bresler's theory.
THE ZAPPING OF AMERICA, by Paul Brodeur (MacLeod [Canadian edition], 1976).
Contains a good chapter on microwave mind control technology.
The important stories of Martti Koski and Robert Naeslund can be obtained by
sending three dollars to Martti Koski, Kiilinpellontie 2, 21290 Rusko,
FINLAND. Koski's description of his "programming" sessions should not be
taken at face value; we cannot always trust the perception of someone whose
perception has been altered. His research into the technology of mind control
is solid.
PoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEBoBPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoEPoE
But none of that could ever happen in THIS country, oh never. We're protected
by the Philip Morris Constitution(tm) and the National Security Act of 1947.
AND I FEEL SECURE. DON'T YOU?
Television certainly couldn't be INTENTIONALLY CONTRIVED to induce hypnagogic f
trance states in its viewers through which the Con delivers ONENESS FANTASY
INDUCTION, Oral Gratification Stimulation and **DEATH ANXIETY** SIGNALS.
<girlfriend and I are one> WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S CALLED "PROGRAMMING"!?!? n
We have American brand McFreedom: we're free to consume ourselves into
indentured-servitude/wage-slave debt, free to get the BEST MIND CONTROL
ADVERTISING that CREDIT CAN BUY. Never mind McGovernment prying into our o
bladders for evidence of Thoughtcrime...those evil drug users aren't consuming
the RIGHT, government-SUBSIDIZED drugs and therefore are traitors to the
Fatherland! <feed me> The Drug Czar really WASN'T ADDICTED TO NICOTINE; he r
chewed Nicorettes TO SET A SHINING EXAMPLE FOR THE CHILDREN and make them GOOD
CONSUMERS OF PHILIP MORRIS tobacco products. <buy or die> Hail Helms! Viva
Zapata Oil! NSA KNOWS BEST! d
MEIN FUEHRER! I CAN WALK!
"If you want a picture of the future, "One of the more interesting
imagine a boot stamping on a human concepts of propaganda -- at least
face -- forever." propaganda in Western societies --
- O'Brien is that it's a propaganda of
integration, that it's not an overt
"Simply knowing you're an object of practice, that it is something that
propaganda is not enough, in itself, has to take place over a long
to armor one against the appeals of period of time; it has to be fairly
propaganda. That's really the common; it has to be integrated
message of 1984...everybody's aware into everyday life."
that the propaganda is ongoing -- - Richard Bolton,
that's what doublethink is, that's Prof. of Visual Arts,
what the concept of doublethink MIT
means: with one part of your mind
you can see that it's just a crock, No. 2: Why did you resign?
and you don't fall for it, but with No. 6: Too many people know too
the other part of that same mind, much.
you adhere blindly to it." No. 2: Never!
- Mark Miller,
Johns Hopkins University
"Outside man there is nothing."
"But the whole universe is outside us. Look at the stars! Some of them are
a million light-years away. They are out of our reach forever."
"What are stars?" said O'Brien indifferently. "They are bits of fire a few
kilometers away. We could reach them if we wanted to. Or we could blot them
out. The earth is the center of the universe. The sun and the stars go round
it...For certain purposes, of course, that is not true. When we navigate the
ocean, or when we predict an eclipse, we often find it convenient to assume
that the earth goes round the sun and that the stars are millions upon millions
of kilometers away. But what of it? Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce
a dual system of astronomy? The stars can be near or distant, according as we
need them. Do you suppose our mathematicians are unequal to that? Have you
forgotten doublethink?"
Bad thinking is punishable.
No. 2: (shouts) Why POP! Good thinking will be as
No. 6: Pop, pop, pop. quickly rewarded. You will
find it an effective
combination.
- The Keeper
As time is short, and you may lie, I'm The fact that the Conspiracy is
going to have to torture you. But I unaware of itself as a Conspiracy
want you to know it isn't personal. gives it such power over our minds
- Agent Rogerz that the very thought becomes
REPO MAN unthinkable.
- Arise!
SubGprop indoctrination tape #23
You don't have many suspects who are
innocent of a crime. That's contradictory.
If a person is innocent of a crime, then
he is not a suspect.
- Edwin Meese III
ex-U.S. Attorney General
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