UFO CONTACT CENTER INTERNATIONAL GROUP MEETING, 1988

 > Meeting: UFO CONTACT CENTER INTERNATIONAL GROUP MEETING, 1988

> Speaker: Martin Cannon

> Subject: UFOs and Mind Control

[THIS IS A TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED TALK GIVEN BY MARTIN CANNON VIA TELEPHONE

TO THE UFO CONTACT CENTER INTERNATIONAL GROUP MEETING IN 1988. BECAUSE IT

IS A TRANSCRIPTION, SOME OF THE NAMES MAY BE INCORRECTLY SPELLED, BUT THE

CONTENT OF THE INFORMATION RELAYED REMAINS 100% ACCURATE.]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * 

All I can say is that I have been, for over a year now, pursuing a specific

theory of UFO abductions which has royally ticked off everybody that I've

come in contact with -- believer and skeptic alike.

This is a theory that, I think, designed to make me hate it. I'm primarily

interested in the government's involvement in the UFO phenomena.

Specifically, it seems to me, and I might as well lay out all my cards on

the table at once, it seems to me the abduction phenomenon might just

be a ploy, that the aliens are a paper-mache mask, as I sometimes put it,

for something else that's really going on.

All theories of UFO abductions that I've ever come across (excepting the

entirely skeptical ones put out by people like Philip Klass), they all

include some aspect of the concept of mind control. Now it seems to me

that if people's minds are being controlled, and I think that this

technology is in existence, then we have to ask the question: can we

trust the participant's reports of what they are seeing, in terms of 

perhaps even the UFO's that they are seeing, but certainly the nature of

the abduction experience itself?

Do we even have to assume that the little gray aliens exist simply because

people tell us that they do, even if they believe that they exist?

Drawing from a very old example out of hypnotism, and Aileen being

herself a hypnotherapist, can perhaps tell you more about this -- it was

a very common practice, going back many, many decades, to see if somebody

was under some hypnotism, they would introduce them -- they would take the

subject, hypnotize them, and say that there was a small, black dog in the

room, and he's coming up, and would you pet him.

And the subject will often actually see the dog just as thoroughly, just

as concretely, as they would see any normal dog that you might get out

of the animal shelter.

Now if the human brain can be tricked to that extent, then is it not

possible that the ET's that people are seeing are of an exactly like

substance to that dog?

I think it is. I have done a great deal of research into the subject of

the government's involvement in mind control operations. They like people

to believe that that was all something that they were doing back in the

50's and the 60's, and it was all to catch up with the Russians who had

this huge lead in the field, but they stopped doing it around 1963 and

they never really found anything -- it's all a lie!

I mean, basically, I've just come to the conclusion where I can say that

right now. These programs went very, very far. We got there first. We 

were far ahead of the Russians. I even can give you a memo where Allen

Dulles admitted that to the Warren Commission, of all places.

It went back to World War II, possibly to the 30's, in fact I've just

recently came across some information that occult groups have been doing

experimentations with what they call electronic mind control, going all

the way back to the 19th century. In fact there isn't a single technology

of mind control that doesn't go back to that time.

And so, one of the problems, well, I should say that in researching this

I have not only looked up, read every book available on this subject,

some of which are EXTREMELY hard to find. I mean, I'm sorry to sound too

paranoid but I'm really beginning to get the idea that somebody has been

going around to the libraries and hussling them off the shelves, because

I keep on finding, you know, there are certain books that I keep on

looking for, and I find that they are not checked out, and they are not

only the library shelves either! And I'm wondering what's happened to

them.

But I think I've now amassed quite a library on the subject, and 

I've also gone to Washington, D.C. and I saw some 20,000 documents, these

are de-classified CIA / Defense Department documents, as well as many

interviews with scientists working on these programs back in the 50's and

60's, and these were all compiled by John Marks, for his book _The Search

for the Manchurian Candidate_.

I would suggest that all of you people read that book, but you must

understand that that book is incredibly conservative, and that the whole

subject goes far, far beyond that. I don't know why John Marks wrote it

the way he did. Certainly, there was much more information in his files

than he allowed to come out in his book.

Another good book which I'm sorry to say is very, very difficult to get

a hold of, and probably the best book on the subject, is called _Operation

Mind Control_, and that's by Walter Bowart. But even then, after you've

gone to that literature, you know, you have to search through a great

deal of periodicals and scientific papers and so forth, and also conduct

a great many interviews.

I've interviewed people who claim to have been under mind control,

specifically in Vietnam. And what they describe is very, very similar to

what the abductee's are describing in many respects. Not only that, I've

spoken to abductees. And this is a subject on which I feel a certain

amount of hesitancy in describing and talking about.

One abductee, I called her Veronica in an article I wrote in UFO Magazine

(it's a long and extremely complicated and fascinating case), under

hypnosis, and I did not hypnotize her, in fact she is the one who wanted

the hypnosis and it was administered by a professional hypnotist. In the

4th hypnotic session she described one of her abductions, which as she

dug deeper turned out not to have taken place at all in any kind of 

Unidentified Flying Object, but in fact took place in a house outside

the Los Angeles area.

And of course, we kept zeroing in on the house and its location, and so on

and so forth.

Now, I must state directly here that there is some possibility, of course,

whenever there is a hypnotized subject -- it is often stated wants to

please the hypnotist, therefore might confabulate details that would fit

that hypnotists' particular thesis. I must say that Veronica came up with

the CIA thesis long before I ever met her. She was saying that that was

just one possibility among others.

It also seems to be a nagging possibility that other abductees that I have

read about and talked to have come up with, although they didn't explore

it. There is something about the idea of being in contact with alien

beings that is extremely attractive to them, and they don't want to give

it up very easily.

Anyway, to go back to the hypnotic session -- she had talked about --

I won't give you the details of this kind of terrifying session that she

underwent in this man's house -- but, after the session, I found out

later she was told under some sort of hypnosis, even though the

hypnotist had tried to get her out of it, and she said that she was no

longer in trance, but apparently she still was. But I said, "Well, okay,

let's drive there."

And we did. And I got a location, we found the location, and she suddenly

got very scared and we had to turn back. Well, I later did a little bit

of detective work and I found out who lived there. I won't give the name,

because there is obviously a certain possibility of lible involved, but

I found out that the man who lived in that house was a scientist who

worked on the CIA's mind control programs. These programs had projects

like ARTICHOKE, BLUEBIRD, MK-ULTRA.

Not only that, while on the way there, Veronica described the interior of

this house, including one specific unusual detail that almost nobody has

in his living room, and I later found out from somebody who had been in

that house, that she described it accurately. Unfortunately, Veronica now

says that she can remember nothing of our conversation together and I

didn't tape her admission of what was inside the house, so there is no

way I can prove this, which is why I am very, very wary of mentioning

names, and possibly giving way to a lible suit.

But I will say that for my purposes, and I can't prove it to anybody

else, but it has been proved to me that in at least one instance this

thesis is correct.

I must tell you right now that I am as loath as anybody else to give up

on the alien hypothesis. I mean I grew up with it, I read alot of UFO

books in my time. I've never been plugged into the UFO Network... I've

never spoken to the actual researchers until just recently. And even then

it's only quite tangential. Aileen is probably the one I know best. And

so, it gets very, very difficult for me to give up entirely upon the idea

of the aliens. And I know that people will get angry at me, because I am

exploring another possibility. But it just seems that this is a path

which has to be looked at.

I do know that from the internal CIA correspondence that I've looked at

in Washington, that one of the problems they had, is that -- it was

a "disposal problem" -- whenever they were experimenting on someone to

see how firmly they could control that person's mind, even though they

would try many techniques to get them to forget the session, as it were,

it was almost impossible to make them forget entirely. Memories would

come out, often-time in dreams, of what was going on.

One of the scientists who worked on it, I think that was Martin Warren,

you may recall Martin Warren because he's mentioned prominently in

Philip Klass' skeptical book on UFO abductions. Martin Warren -- what

Philip Klass doesn't tell you is that Martin Warren was a CIA operative

going back to the very early 60's...

But one of the things they mentioned in this context of people remembering,

was they will remember any scenario that they are told. In other words,

you can tell them: "Yes, something happened there... but you know...",

you can fix the memory -- in other words, arrange a cover story. And so,

yeah, the person might wake up in the middle of the night with this

terrible, terrible feeling in that back of his head that he has been

hypnotically told to forget something that happened to him. But as long

as he misremembers that, then the actual truth of the matter will never

come out.

Now I think that something very much like that happened to a man named

Marty Kosky. Marty Kosky was a Finnish citizen. He was staying in

Canada sometime in the mid to the late 1970's, and I have alot of material

from him. He claims to have been a victim of mind control. Now, by the

1970's this whole technology was getting extremely baroque. In the 50's

and the 60's, according to John Mark's informant, nobody knows his name,

I don't even think John Mark's knows his name -- he was given the nickname

"Deep Trance" -- according to Deep Trance the mind control was basically,

the technology had to do with drugs and some with hypnosis. In the 70's

it started to turn to things like implantations in the brain and

microwaves. And the two of them can work together.

Now Marty Kosky claims, this Finnish citizen claims to have been a victim

of the microwave experimentations happening in Canada. He had first, in

1977 or thereabouts, came out with a brochure that was, well you know, he

learned English only a couple of years previously, and he wasn't a

professional writer, and claimed to be microwaved in his brain, and so

obviously you can tell that the pamphlet that he came up with was not very

impressive, and people looking at it probably dismissed him as a nut.

Later, though, he came out with a still not particularly well-written,

but much more convincing set of materials which I believe that Aileen

might have copies of there, and we can certainly get some copies

distributed to you people, if you're interested in it, in which he tells

the story in greater length. He talks about being taken to a hospital,

having things implanted in his brain, hearing of voices. Now I must say

that even though this sounds like the story of an absolute Loony Tune,

I know for a fact that this sort of thing does occur -- I mean, is

technologically possible -- there was a scientist named Allen Fray

in the late 60's, early 70's, who discovered that you can induce, with

microwaves, voices in the brain -- that you can actually hear.

As always, with these things, you only get the first experimentations

along these lines, the first successful notes of what was happening and

then of course, it's all clamped down, you don't get any more

information on follow-up experiments. But we do know, at least from the

early work, that people were able to hear things, directly perceived

words, as spoken over a microphone, directly in their mind... not just

through the ears or anything like that. Which makes me look twice

whenever I hear about people who claim to be hearing voices. Because

I know that that is a classic symptom of schizophrena, but many of these

people are also extremely hypnotizable.

Classic schizophrenics are not easily hypnotizable, yet these people are.

They fall into a separate category, and I'm wondering if the voices that

they hear, if they too might be -- it's a possibility among other

possiblities, let's put it that way -- if these people are also possible

subjects of this sort of experimentation.

Anyway, getting back to Kosky -- I won't tell you his entire story,

because I think it would be better if you read it entirely -- he talks

about being kidnapped and taken to a hospital and given what he called

"spy training". Much of his descriptions of what happened to him in the

hospital I think are quite incorrect, but who knows what happened to his

mind during those times.

I do know that of the released MK-ULTRA papers from the 50's and the 60's

many of the absolute worst atrocities being committed by the CIA -- they

were trying to invade the space between people's ears -- were in fact

taking place in Canada.

So, it's entirely likely that these things will be happening in Canada.

Don't think that simply because Kosky points the finger at the Royal

Canadian Mounted Police, doesn't really mean that the CIA or some other

government agency isn't behind it. In fact, some of what I've read has

indicated that the government agency that is now most involved in the

mind control experimentation is called DARPA. And I've also just recently

come across some information that NASA, of all people, of all places, I

don't know why, is possibly, just possibly involved with that. There is

whole story I can tell you along those lines.

One of the things that Kosky was told after he got away from the

hospital and after he was trying to re-establish his sanity after these

terrible experimentations that were done to him, he was told that the

people talking to him were from Sirius. Now, this is one of the

best links I have between the mind control technology and the UFO

abduction phenomenon. That this is a victim of mind control claiming that

he knows that the controllers were using UFOs or aliens as a cover

story for their operations. He was even more explicit in his original

pamphlet. Where he was saying that: "The test program fluctuates from

spying education to meeting humanoids from other planets, people from

Mars and Sirius, if you are a religious person, you can even talk to 

the Lord."

So, in other words, they find out exactly how your personality is

structured, and then they will assume a persona to meet that, which also

makes me look at these people who claim to be hearing voices from Jesus

or from Satan. I know recently there was a rash of people hearing the

voice of Satan, I think it was a group of teenagers out in Tennessee.

And they progressed from -- they were committing horrible atrocities --

first they were watching these terribly violent videotapes which for

some reason are now being made available to teenagers, including

videotapes of actual deaths and then the voices told them to start

torturing and murdering small animals, until finally they actually

murdered one of their numbers.

Well, I know that this sounds like an outrageous story and possibly not

connected to what I am saying, but in fact it is connected because that

was one of the ways they trained -- one of the primary, I should say,

motivations for the entire mind control technology as we know it from

the papers in the 50's and the 60's, was to train people to commit

assassinations. And this is why I am very frightened whenever an

abductee -- and I've had a couple come up with this now -- start talking

about guns. In fact, you know, in that very same abduction hypnotic

session where we are talking about her abduction, she said that the

entities had told her to bring a gun to Martin (!), which did not exactly

make me feel very good, I mean I really don't know what was behind that,

but I must say that I've rather limited my contact with that woman ever

since.

Now I should say, where was I -- oh yes -- again, I'm not used to giving

a lecture to large numbers of people whom I can't see, so I'll probably

be flitting from one thing to another, but anyway, I do have documents

which prove that that was the ultimate goal, to get people to commit

atrocities without any emotions, without any affect. That was the primary

purpose, and the way they did it was first to desensitize people.

There was a doctor named Nereut, who I think in 1974 spilled the beans

to the London Times saying that he was performing these kinds of

experimentations on soldiers of the Green Berets and Navy Seals, and

other Special Forces, and they were taught under hypnosis, and sometimes

not under hypnosis to desensitive themselves to violence, usually

through a series of films, and then you would progress from that to

not caring if you tore the head off a chicken. And then you were told

that the enemy was less than subhuman and so you would go out there and

commit unbelievable atrocities which, if you dig into it, you know were

committed in Vietnam.

And then, according to the some of the people who claim to be mind

control victims that I've spoken to, you can be hypnotized into forgetting

that you committed the atrocities, and this is actually quite beneficial,

because you don't want that sort of thing on your memory, you just won't

be able to function. I spoke directly to -- I can't give his name -- and

I know that it would be very difficult for me to convince your people

of the truth of what he said. All I know is that I sat directly across

from him in the room. And I met him almost by coincidence, I was

interviewing him on another subject and told him I was interested in

mind control and he said this had happened to him.

He gave me specific examples of things that occurred with him in the

1960's, how he was put through this sort of program. Much of what he

described as to how this -- not just the mind control, he knew the

technology involved, he knew many of the terms involved, he would have

to do a great deal of studying in order to have gotten this information.

And he talked about the way that these sort of secret missions would be

directed out of a Naval intelligence ship, which I knew from other

sources to be absolutely true. So I believed what he had to say to me,

in other words. And he fingered the Veterans Administration hospital

out here in Northridge as one place where they continue to have

scientists operate in these capacities. And that was very interesting

to me, because I later have, and I just now had an abductee tell me

that she had memories of something terrible happening at that very same

Veterans Administration hospital.

So that all fits together, again, I'm telling you this to explain to you

why I believe what I believe. I don't necessarily have all of the facts

and that I can put it in a book and prove it, but I have enough that

definitely my suspicion is raised. Now you may ask about implantations,

the scars that Budd Hopkins will show you photographs of, and these

implanations, intracerebreal implantations which are just now beginning

to show up in MRI scans on contactee's. I've just now made friends with

a woman out in Lancaster, who is studying abductees who claims to have

gotten alot of these MRI scans definitely having "bogies" showing up on

them.

Again, this was a part of the technology. There was a book published in

1968, I believe, called _Were We Controlled_ by a man with the psuedonym

of Lincoln Lawrence, and I would suggest that you people read that. Now

this is a book obstensibly about the John F. Kennedy assassination,

looking into the possibility, and this has been raised by a number of

people, outrageous as the possibility may seem, that Jack Ruby and

Lee Harvey Oswald were somehow hypnotically programmed to do what they

did. To tell you the truth, although I am willing to accept any number

of unusual possibilities, I am not entirely convinced of that. However,

I know for a fact that much of the information given in that book

regarding the CIA's and the Defense Department's mind control program

is right on target, because it checked out with material that was

released only about fifteen years later, or ten years later, under

Freedom of Information.

Lincoln Lawrence had to have, and I know that he was in fact an FBI

agent, and therefore probably did have the sort of connections. He had

to have connections to people who were in the know as to the technology

involved. And the technology that he fingers, and it's come up in a

couple of other sources, again we don't have actual internal government

documentation on this, unfortunately just yet, but the technology that he

fingers is something called Radio Hypnotic Intracerebreal Control, that

coupled with another technology called EDOM, Electronic Dissolution Of 

Memory. And basically, EDOM is nothing more or less than "missing time",

exactly what Budd Hopkins talks about. Making people forget what they've

done for the past two or three hours. According to Lincoln Lawrence, and

I'm tending more and more to believe him, that is a technology that we,

not the aliens, but we have had in our hands for my goodness, twenty,

thirty years perhaps. Similarly, Radio Hypnotic Intracerebreal Control is

a technology which, even in its most primitive form, according to some of

the Russian literature mentioned in Lincoln Lawrence's book, and again I

gave a copy to Aileen there, goes back to the 1930's. And that has to do 

with alot of arcane subjects -- implantations, intracerbreal implantations

in the brain.

By sending electronic pulses to these intracerebreal implantations, you

can train the frequencies of the brain to a point of hypnotic 

suggestibility, and then voices, which can be, as I mentioned earlier,

which can be placed into the brain will act as a sort of remote

hypnotist. One that has a far greater suggestibility than an actual

hypnotist that you might pay money to go see. And this is somebody who

can make you believe that you are seeing -- when this is happening to

you they can make you believe that you are seeing, or have seen, if they

want to erase a previous memory, say a van that kidnapped you, when in

fact they might tell you that it was a UFO that kidnapped you. Or, as

another story that I got from an abductee...

He had this strange memory of -- you know, he was talking about his

abduction, and how he climbed into this saucer-shaped craft. But you know,

just before the saucer-shaped craft appeared in his mind he has this

strange memory that there was this truck in there, and that the same guy

who was on the craft was in that truck, and he couldn't quite put the two

together. Well, you know, I heard this from Budd Hopkins once. He said that

there was an abductee he talked who said that there was, you know when he

was abducted, that at first he thought it was a helicopter, or some sort of

helicopter that grabbed him and took him up into the air.

No, it couldn't have been that -- what it was, was this UFO -- and so,

Budd Hopkins is saying well obviously the helicopter was the screen memory

for this terrible UFO experience.

Possibly, but the possibility that I'm looking into is, what if it really

was a helicopter and it was a UFO that was an induced screen memory,

possibly induced by this technology that I'm looking into called Radio

Hypnotic Intracerebreal Control, RHIC. There was a Doctor named

Jose Delgado, still working today, who wrote a book called _Physical

Control of the Mind: Towards a Psycho-Civilized Society_.

These implants that everybody are talking about -- people are thinking

that only a highly advanced technology such as the aliens could come up

with. Well, Delgado was in business as early the late 1950's, he put

these implants in a bull in a Spanish bull-ring, and had the bull charge

him, and then he pushed a button on a box, it was like the same sort of

box you would get with a radio-controlled airplane. He pushed a button --

and there are photographs of this that I can show you -- with the bull

like just a few feet in front of him and ready to gore the guy to death

-- came to a complete stop. Pushed another button, the bull walks away.

Now if that can happen to animals in the 50's why can't it be happening

to abductees?