Mystery/Multicultural Writers folder, of messages
Subject: Mystery/ MultiCult. Writers
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Date: 8/28/1996
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An archive from the Mystery/Multicultural Writers folder, of messages from January 8, 1996 to February 6, 1996. Enjoy!
Subj: Re:selling your book
Date: 96-01-08 03:33:29 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
Tess and Dale ; Thanks for the suggestions. I've just completed a
Children's book and they always ask, "What will you do?"
I am REALLY (really) naive about the whole thing.
I used to teach college writing , but always put off doing it.
AnnieSubj: Re:book promo
Date: 96-01-08 10:22:26 edt
From: JeHager
Posted on: America Online
Dale, I used to send the color postcards to bookstores & libraries, but I
heard the same thing you have, that booksellers get so many that they just
toss them. Now I put out a four-page newsletter twice a year. I send
packets to mystery bookstores and have an individual mailing list of nearly
3,000. I also send individual copies to other selected bookstores. Who
knows if this increases sales, but I've received a lot of good response from
people saying they like the newsletter.
Jean Hager Subj: Re:ethnic books
Date: 96-01-08 10:23:35 edt
From: JeHager
Posted on: America Online
Dale, I just remembered. I also have reading guides, which I offer free
through my newsletter. In case you're wondering why I'm on this board, two
of my mystery series feature Cherokee Indian detectives.
Jean
Subj: Re:book promo
Date: 96-01-08 11:45:20 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Hi Jean,
Thanks for the information about your newsletter. I've thought about a
newsletter, but having done a couple for civic groups I know how much work
they are :). How did you get such a large mailing list? Are they all fans who
wrote in to you? Did your publisher let you note there was a newsletter in
your books? Thanks for any additional details you can provide.
- Dale
Subj: Re:ethnic books
Date: 96-01-08 11:47:17 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Hi Jean (again)....
Is there any way I can get a copy of your reading guides so I can see what
they look like? I'd be happy to pay for postage or any other cost involved.
If they're available, I'll handle details via e-mail.
Thanks.
- DaleSubj: Re:selling your book
Date: 96-01-08 11:57:10 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Hi Annie,
At every conference I attend the basic message is you'll get support for your
books from the publisher when you're so famous you don't need support(!).
I've been told the average hard cover mystery for a first-time writer sells
around 3500 copies(!). The average paperback is 15,000-20,000. For the
hardcover I wasn't going to do anything until I realized how small the number
of sales are. I figure I could go door-to-door in my neighborhood, selling
books and actually making a difference on the first book's sales! I'm trying
to get a detective series going, so building sales is very important to me
because it allows me to leverage the advances, etc. for the next books in the
series. Of course, if the first two don't sell there won't be a series....!
Sisters in Crime has a good book called something like "Shameless Self
Promotion for Brazen Hussies" that talks about the standard promotion
schemes. I've read it, but don't own a copy so I can't give you ordering
information. There's an active "SinC" (Sisters in Crime) section here in
mystery ficiton, and you could ask there. It has good stuff for any kind of
book promotion, and SinC is very helpful to new and pre-published writers
(used to be "unpublished" when I started, but whatever term's in vogue...).
Congratulaitons, and good luck!
- Dale
Subj: Re:ethnic books
Date: 96-01-08 11:59:36 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Hi Gwen,
Can you post a little more about the L.A. SinC conference? Did anyone
specifically talk about ethnic mysteries?
I want to attend, but caught walking pnuemonia (there's an epidemic in L.A.)
and had to stay home.
- Dale
Subj: Re:ethnic books
Date: 96-01-08 12:41:52 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
DFlanagan--the LA conference didn't have any specific panels directed to
ethnic mysteries, but did have Gar Anthony Haywood as one of the panelists.
(He writes the great Loudermilk series, if you haven't read them, get them.
His protagonists are black.) He was terrific and did address some of the
issues.
Most of it--other than the fun of meeting in person--was very practical. I
think it was Picasso who said something like when critics get together they
talk about the meaning of art, when artists get together, they talk about the
best places to get a good deal on paints and turpentine. Marketing,
strategy, contracts--and how to write the best book you can.
Hope to see you at one of the meetings--take care of yourself and try a
little echinecea (Trader Joe's has some good stuff).
Gwen
Subj: Re:ethnic books
Date: 96-01-08 18:55:12 edt
From: Jogerrit
Posted on: America Online
Dale,
I can't believe that playwright wouldn't give a quote because he considered
you "competition!" I feel that any really good book, in any subgenre,
actually "grows" the market because it makes readers want more of the same..
What I do have to add, though, is that unless the person giving the quotes is
actually well known, it may not help you very much! If I were you, I'd go
for quotes by other well-known mystery writers, ethnic or not.
I've never tried promoting directly to bookstores. Since I used to write
for Harlequin, it didn't make much sense. They had a built-in market. I
tend to think those postcard mailings are probably a waste of money. You're
much better off getting your book to reviewers. My advice: print up your own
galleys (if your publisher won't do ARC's) and mail them off to mystery
reviewers in all the major newspapers.
As for that hardcover sales figure of 3500 -- yikes. How does anyone make
money in the mystery business?
Tess
Subj: Re:ethnic books
Date: 96-01-09 01:59:27 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Hi Tess,
I'm collecting quotes from established mystery writers, and St. Martin's
Press said they'd do the same. I share an agent with Julie Smith (who is one
of my personal favorite mystery writers), so I hope to get a quote from her.
Since I intend to sell to the Asian market as well as the general mystery
market, I'm getting quotes from prominent Asians here on the west coast. The
Director of the UCLA Asian Studies Department has already said yes, as well
as the best known Asian Appellate Court Justice. I haven't tried yet, but I'm
also going to ask Judge Lance Ito... my wife's secretary used to be his
secretary several years ago, so there's a (tenuous) connection.
At 3500 hardcopy copies it's impossible to make money. That's why so many
mysteries are going direct to paperback. In 1994 they published around 2,000
new hardcover mystery titles. In 1995 I was told that they published around
1,000. That's why it's so hard for new mystery writers to break in (I feel I
was lucky). If you can get a series going it can be a good business because
loyal fans buy the new book and mystery readers also buy from the backlist if
they find an author they like. Writers with a good series going can get 6
figure advances (I know two personally). That takes a few years and several
books, though. For my first books I did much better than I expected, so I'm
optimistic.
I'm interested in this talk about study guides because my first book revolves
around Japanese-American history, Japanese-American customs and the Asian
experience (I just had a Chinese-American judge read the book and he told me
it paralleled his experiences exactly). I'm not sure what a study guide
contains, but I'd like to try and put one together.
Are you still writing Romance? What is your current project? I need to go
through my second book to clean it up, but I finished it before Christmas.
It's a mystery with the same Japanese-American detective as the first, but
this one is set in Tokyo, Japan (the first is set in "Little Tokyo" in Los
Angeles). I'm now putting together a synopsis for a mystery book set in a WWI
zeppelin. I've already done my research for that, including reading a 1910
flight manual on how to fly a zeppelin and riding in the Goodyear blimp! I'll
write that one under my adopted name of Dale Flanagan. I want to keep Dale
Furutani for Asian-theme books.
- Dale
Subj: Re:ethnic books
Date: 96-01-09 08:57:47 edt
From: Jogerrit
Posted on: America Online
Dale,
good luck getting Lance Ito's quote! That would be just great.
I'm not really doing romance right now, just straight medical thrillers.
Funny thing is, the vast majority of my readers have no idea I'm Asian. I
feel as if I'm writing in disguise...
Tess
Subj: Re:book promo
Date: 96-01-09 10:37:59 edt
From: JeHager
Posted on: America Online
Dale, almost 2,000 of my personal mailing list are listed in the Sisters in
Crime Directory. I excluded most of the published writers, figuring they'd
know when I had new books coming out, anyway. I got the 1,000 or 1,200 other
names & addresses over a few years from fan mail and by providing a tablet
for people to sign up for a free newsletter whenever I do a signing. Once
you get used to thinking "mailing list" you find additions frequently. I
haven't asked my publishers to put a notice in my books. Have thought about
it, but I'm not sure I will.
Jean
Subj: Re:ethnic books
Date: 96-01-09 12:57:49 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Tess,
>>the vast majority of my readers have no idea I'm Asian. I feel as if I'm
writing in disguise..<<<
What, no book jacket photo?
- Dale
(Who is primping for his book jacket photo this Thursday at the Toyo Miyatake
studios....)
Subj: Re:book promo
Date: 96-01-09 13:00:39 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Jean,
Thanks for the information. I'm sure a newsletter must increase sales. The
scale you're running yours at is impressive (and expensive!). Do you bulk
mail or send first class? Is there anything else you've tried that's worked
great or bombed? I know I'm being a pest, but I want to spend my time and
money on promotion wisely.
- Dale
Subj: Re:book promo
Date: 96-01-09 18:06:32 edt
From: Jogerrit
Posted on: America Online
Dale,
my next book WILL have a jacket photo. I'm coming out of the closet!
Tess
Subj: Re:Ethnic market
Date: 96-01-09 21:57:37 edt
From: GYFort
Posted on: America Online
From my years of experience--more than I will tell--I have no patience with
those who are/feel limited in any way. A writer who fears another as an
infringement is sad. Nothing is new under the sun, but all perspectives are
unique--albeit similar. Go for it, pal.
Subj: Re:Ethnic market
Date: 96-01-09 22:10:07 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
Published writers: This is a blanket announcement for our published writers,
I will be sending out letters to you all on this subject. If you are a
member of the multicultural writer's group, we will be creating web pages and
web links for our published writers who are interested. There's no charge -
-if you're a member. Of course, you can create your own. But, we will do it
for you if you like, and link it into our web page. We suggest that you have
a newsletter for the page.
That means you to, Dale...:D
E-mail me if you're interested. I will be e-mailing you.
Felice
Subj: Re:book promo
Date: 96-01-09 23:19:24 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Tess,
Re: Your photo... Hooray! The more visible we become the better we'll all be.
Dale
P.S. Do you find it unusual that they want me to take my book jacket photo in
the nude?!?
P.P.S. The P.S. is a joke. It's the photographer who said he'd be in the
nude... <G>
Subj: Re:Ethnic market
Date: 96-01-09 23:21:26 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Felice,
How could anyone in their right mind turn down this offer? Please tell me
what you need.
Thank you,
DaleSubj: Re:author photos
Date: 96-01-10 08:56:43 edt
From: Jogerrit
Posted on: America Online
Dale,
Sounds like it will be a ver-r-r-y interesting photo shoot. We're all
dying to hear about it.
Author photographers are a breed unto themselves. They're forced to make
non-glamour pusses look great, and sometimes it's a real challenge. The lady
who came to take my picture was told by the publisher that I was supposed to
look "spooky" (to go along with my book.) So she spent the whole session
telling me: "No, don't smile! Look threatening! I want a Dragon Lady look!"
It was hard not to crack up.
Tess
Subj: Re:book promo
Date: 96-01-10 10:42:36 edt
From: JeHager
Posted on: America Online
Dale, yes I've used bulk rate when I have a big mailing. My printer lets me
use his bulk rate #. When I'm going to bulk mail, I put my printer's # on
the newsletter where the stamp would go. Then it's up to me to sort by zip
code, bundle appropriately, and put in labeled bags before I go to the main
post office. The people are your p. o. will tell you how to do it, and it is
some chore, believe me. I paid my daughter to sort & bundle the last one I
did, last spring. My fall newsletter went to a smaller group (though still
around 3,000), and I sent it first-class. Cleaned up my list, so maybe I'll
go bulk next time. The fall mailing was smaller because I didn't have a new
book to promote (both my books last year came out in the spring, and that's
when I did the big mailing. In the fall newsletter, I talked about my book
tour, answered some reader mail, etc.
You will build your mailing list as you go along, so don't sweat it. Just
start out with a list of the people you know and some bookstores and send
packets of 20 or so to the mystery book stores.
Jean
Subj: Re:book promo
Date: 96-01-10 10:43:04 edt
From: JeHager
Posted on: America Online
Dale,
P. S. Nobody knows what increases sales. We're flying blind here.
Jean
Subj: Re:Ethnic market
Date: 96-01-10 10:45:05 edt
From: JeHager
Posted on: America Online
Felice,
E-mail me the info. on the web page. I've been thinking of doing one, but
haven't decided how yet. I write another series without an ethnic detective
or background, so don't want to limit my readership.
Jean Subj: Re:author photos
Date: 96-01-10 11:24:59 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Tess,
>>They're forced to make non-glamour pusses look great<<
Speak for yourself. When I started visiting Japan both men and women told me
I looked like a Japanese movie star. It took about three visits to realize
this could mean Godzilla<G>.
When I past 40 the movie star talk stopped. Now old friends from Japan seem
surprised to see I'm still alive.
- Dale
Subj: Re:book promo
Date: 96-01-10 11:27:12 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Jean,
Thank you very much for the information. I've done bulk mail, so I know the
drill. I appreciate you sharing your experiences and techniques with me and
others. Hearing the experience of others makes it easier to select what I
want to do with that portion of my advance I've dedicated to promotion.
- Dale
Subj: LA writers
Date: 96-01-11 21:36:02 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Anyone (besides me) going to SinC meeting this Sunday?
Just finished Manuel Ramos's the Ballad of Cat Guerrero...great book,
terrific example of mixing cultures and languages...
Gwen
Subj: Re:SinC meeting
Date: 96-01-11 22:21:35 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
What's Sinc? Sorrry to be so dumb:D
AnnieSubj: Re:SinC meeting
Date: 96-01-12 04:16:51 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Nobody's dumb--SinC is the abreviation for Sisters in Crime and the LA
chapter meets this Sunday. SinC is for women--and men--who write mysteries,
sell mysteries, or just love them.
Other than online, my first meeting was the conference last Sunday--great
conference, great people. KrisMyst can give you more info.
GwenSubj: Re:LA writers
Date: 96-01-12 13:31:10 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
Gwen,
Just curious, who published the book you finished. One of our writers on
line has a wonderful spanish flavored western. It's really, really good.
It's not so much a mystery, although it has elements of a mystery.
Thanks.
Felice
Subj: Re:LA writers
Date: 96-01-12 13:34:43 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Is it still at the South Pasedena Library? What time? Do you have the exact
address?
Thanks,
Dale
Subj: Re:LA writers
Date: 96-01-12 14:45:30 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Can't find my SinC stuff right now. will get back to you--or E-mail
KrisMyst.
Ramos's book was published by St, Martin's--my copy is paperback in a
division called "Dead Letter".
See you sunday, Dale--
Gwen
Subj: Re:LA writers
Date: 96-01-12 23:18:50 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
Thanks Gwen...:D
Subj: Another Topic
Date: 96-01-12 23:25:11 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
We've learned a lot about book signings, but I want to change the topic a
bit. We had a bit of discussion at last Wednesday's meeting when someone
made the following comment:
(Paraphrased: Ethnic writer's shouldn't be so concerned with color. In fact,
they shouldn't include color at all when writing. It's a topic that over
dramatized by ethnic writers...
Comments, questions? Rebuttals? :D
Felice
Subj: Wednesday January 17
Date: 96-01-12 23:27:06 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
We're really looking forward to having Charles Conrad, multicultural fiction
editor for Doubleday with us this coming Wednesday. Multicultural writer's
Group meets Wednesday nights at 9:00pm eastern, 8:00 central and 7:00pm
pacific. You can find us in the Writer's Conference Room. :D
Subj:
Re:Publisher's List
Date: 96-01-12 23:53:17 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
The multicultural writer's group is compiling a list of publishers addresses
separated by "ethnicity". For example: African American, Hispanic, European,
Asian, Native American. We will try to have this completed by the middle of
next month. If you're a member of the multicultural writer's group, you will
automatically receive a copy. If you're not a member, and would like to
request a copy, please e-mail our marketing director, D S Pouch.
Thanks,
Felice
Subj: Re:Wednesday January 17
Date: 96-01-13 01:19:00 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
9 pm Eastern should be 6 pm Pacific, right?
- Dale
Subj: Re:Another Topic
Date: 96-01-13 01:20:09 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
I think he may be correct. I heard someone say of Denzel Washington in "The
Pelican Papers" "I never thought of the hero being like HIM. Haven't read
the book, but I had the feeling that color had not been mentioned in the
book. Anyone know? Maybe only mention it when it is relevent to the story?
And of course mine is (:D
Subj: Re:Another Topic
Date: 96-01-13 01:33:15 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
I don't understand the comment. Does it mean that we shouldn't be concerned
about race or ethnicity when we write, or does it mean that we are too
concerned about "color" when we write?
If it means the former, then I don't agree. If we don't include anything,
isn't it "assumed" by most readers that the characters will be "regular"
Americans... in others words white, usually male and Christian. But is that
really what a "regular" American is? And if we don't show the richness of our
own cultural background, aren't we denying our roots and not drawing on our
unique experiences?
Some Jewish writers have mainstream, white-bread characters, but they often
include ethnicity in their characters. Heck, some even write in Yiddish for
translation to English! Shouldn't other cultures follow in this tradition?
The author's ethnicity or race is an integral part of what we are and what we
say, so how can we not include something about it in a lot of our writing?
Maybe not all of our writing, but certainly in the things that cut close to
the bone.
- Dale
P.S. To make it clear, ethnicity is a matter of culture and race is a matter
of biology. There are Chinese Jews, for instance, so racially you could be
Chinese without being Chinese culturally. Ethnically we're all Americans (or
hypenated Americans), but racially we can be all sorts of things.
Subj:
Re:Another Topic
Date: 96-01-13 02:22:32 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
good point--ethnically we are all Americans and I think many of us have had
the experience, however un-mainstream we feel here, of visiting another
culture and finding out how american we are.
But don't leave out color and ethnicity and history--for me it makes the
story richer, deeper, more textured and real. Otherwise we're left with
Dickand Jane and Sally and Spot and Puff.
No thanks--
Gwen
Subj: Re:Another Topic
Date: 96-01-13 11:34:30 edt
From: BUnderw170
Posted on: America Online
I agree completely. If culture references are integral to the story, include
it. In writing this will almost always be necessary, when the character's
thoughts are expressed, etc., but not necessarily in film (anyone with
working eyes can SEE Denzel Washington in Pelican Brief is black; besides,
despite his co-starring status he was not the film's central character
anyway.) --Bettye
Subj: Re:Another Topic
Date: 96-01-13 12:49:27 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
I've read "The Pelican Brief" The thing is, the movie left out the romance
between Darcy Shaw and the reporter. Can't recall the name right now. John
Grisham, being the Missisippi boy that he is, I suppose, didn't want an
African American in that role. It was Julia Roberts that pushed for Denzil.
And boy, did we love him!
Felice
Subj: Re:Another Topic
Date: 96-01-13 17:27:59 edt
From: RCHERIN
Posted on: America Online
<John Grisham, being the Mississippi boy he is>
Isn't that a giant leap into the assumption mire? From that assumption, we
can assume that all from Mississippi are racist. I lived in Olive Branch, MS,
and racists are the only peope I dislike.
Subj: Re:Another Topic
Date: 96-01-13 23:37:51 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
I knew that was "prejudiced" when I wrote it. :( Sorry guys. My secret is
out. I've got to quit prejudging people based on locale! Thanks Robert. :D
Felice
Subj: Re:Another Topic
Date: 96-01-14 00:55:22 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
Hey Felice,
Learn the term "red neck" then you don't need locale. Did you know we got
the name "red neck" from the English stationed in North Africa? They
couldn't take the sun and burned their necks bright red. That was when the
English "Empire" reached "round the world" and they thought they were the
best.
Annie (who lived in the sun so long as a child she never burned. But boy I
sure do now!!)
Subj: Re:Another Topic
Date: 96-01-14 02:56:07 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
So that you know my guilty secret--on my daddy's side I come from a long line
of Mississipians--and I have family I dearly love (and some who've come a
long way on the issue of race) BUT I have to say it's a prejudice I have to
fight.
And that's because I've been there. Took me a long time to learn that much
of the horrendous racist talk I heard (not from my parents) when we would
visit came as much from most of my family being poor (redneck might've been a
step up) and eager to have someone to be "better than". Power loves to keep
those on the bottom at each other's throats--or at least that's my theory.
(And how original).
Anyway Felice--I understand where you're coming from. It's taken me a long
time to find pride in my roots while understanding what is really awful. But
it's easy to look on them as "crackers" and "trailer trash" and then I had to
recognize that I was much like the self-hating of any group who tell myself
I'm not like the rest of them...
sorry for the long post--just Mississippi triggers lots of stuff--and not all
the best memories--
On the other hand Denzel Washington would be my choice in just about any
role...
Gwen
Subj: Re:Another Topic
Date: 96-01-14 15:16:47 edt
From: LeeHarris
Posted on: America Online
I responded to your topic on the other multicultural board in this section,
then I found this board. (It's always confusing to me when there are more
than one board on a topic). However, I find your postings fascinating.
I'm planning to submit my first mystery novel (after writing and editing for
nearly five years) this year. Of course it is multicultural - that's my life.
I have an interracial couple who are key people to the protagonist. Funny, in
some ways this couple are like my own family. Wonder why?
My husband is Irish and Crow, but we get stared at when he's in uniform far
more than any other time. He's a cop. Living in Alaska, mixed marriages are
very common and in fact are endangering Alaskan Natives. My writing reflects
my mixed feelings about this. Wouldn't it make my work very mundane if I was
not to include an accurate reflection of what I see?
Lee (a black woman who when I lived in Nome, Alaska used to get photographed
by the white tourists) :D
Subj: Re: Crossing Over
Date: 96-01-14 15:39:46 edt
From: DezT Nie
Posted on: America Online
In reference to Felice's new topic and the much earlier crossing over
comments: I consider myself to be a genre writer. I write Science Fiction,
Fantasy, Contemporary, and Christian. It just so happens that because I'm
black and female, my main characters, in any genre tend to be black and
female. I have to stretch to make my main character any thing else. And,
because multi-culturalism is important to me, my secondary characters tend to
be diverse. Any interracial or ethnic story I write cannot, in my opinion be
considered a crossover to mainstream because I write for the mainstream and
don't consider myself and ethnic writer.
When I sang Gosple music I definately would have been considered crossover
because all my gosple was pop oriented and I sang them at definately
non-gosple/non-christian events. I wanted to reach those who ordinarily
would not be exposed. Its the same with my writing. Interracial,
multicultural people are a fact, can't we write the facts, even in
fiction?
Subj: Case of the missing Gwen
Date: 96-01-14 21:15:35 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Hi Gwen,
Did you make it to the Sister's in Crime meeting at Pasadena? I cruised the
room after the meeting looking for a Gwen nametag, but didn't see one.
- Dale
Subj: Re: Mississippi
Date: 96-01-15 03:27:55 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
Gwen. Yes i agree with concept of needing someone "lower than". i feel very
lucky that my parents succeeded in making me feel O.K. in spite of poverty.
My mom enfluenced me most on non-bigotry. Daddy always thought others "in
general" were less than Anglo. But when told "You have friends that are
(whatever). He replied, "Yes, but he's different!" /:d
AnnieSubj: Annie
Date: 96-01-15 07:38:25 edt
From: RCHERIN
Posted on: America Online
You should have explained to daddy that only few whites are anglos.
Subj: Re:
Mississippi
Date: 96-01-15 13:08:47 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
The >> He replied, "Yes, but he's different!"<< remark from Annie extends
beyond whites.
I worked with an FOB ("Fresh off the Boat") Japanese national. His first
friend in the company was a Jewish gentleman, and they would go golfing
together and have lunch all the time. I was stunned when I heard the Japanese
make anti-semitic remarks one day about Jewish "characteristics" and them
controlling the banking system. "Don't you realize X is Jewish?" I said.
"Does he act like that?" The Japanese national admitted he had never really
met a Jew, and he didn't realize that X was Jewish. He seemed stunned, too.
I chalked up a victory for smashing stereotypes and anti-semitism until the
next morning when the Japanese told me, "I've been thinking about our
conversation yesterday. I've decided there are *two* kinds of Jews, a 'good'
Jew like X and a 'bad' Jew that controls the banking system, etc.....". Sigh.
- Dale Furutani Flanagan
Subj: Re: Missin gGwen
Date: 96-01-15 16:37:15 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Dale--looked for you as well. I got lost and got there as the meeting ended.
(One of those days). Felt too dumb t go around asking who people were. I
was the tall bewildered looking woman in a black dress with gray and brown
hair.
Oh, well--at least I know where it is now and can make it next time.
Gwen (the directionally challenged)
Subj: Re: Good X and Bad X
Date: 96-01-15 16:37:53 edt
From: FAvey
Posted on: America Online
That seems to be the way the story goes, Dale. I found your anecdote funny.
I get really angry when I see all this concern over crime in the Black
community. (Not that there shouldn't be concern.) But where is the concern
over the council member in my state who was "white" and was arrested for shop
lifting. We had four persons in our state who had been convicted of crimes,
all were considering re-election. But Minnesota is weird anyway, you say.
True. But Clinton seems to have a few problems too. We'll see whether his
problems stem from real dirty laundry or political smoke screening soon
enough. :D
Felice, who knows better than to bring up politics in polite company.
Subj:
Re: Missin gGwen
Date: 96-01-15 17:17:24 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Gwen
>>>tall bewildered looking woman<<
That was half the group! We'll make plans before the next meeting. Let's see,
trench coat with pink carnation flipping a silver dollar....
- Dale
Subj: Re: Mississippi
Date: 96-01-15 17:50:30 edt
From: RCHERIN
Posted on: America Online
Great story, Dale. Did you tell him about the horns? <G
Subj: Re: Mississippi
Date: 96-01-15 20:39:31 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Hi,
No, I started off with "And I'm sure there are two types of Japanese: Good
Japanese and...". What I find interesting (and sad) was that he was
anti-semitic without ever having (knowingly) met a Jewish person!
- Dale
Subj: RE: white vs anglo
Date: 96-01-16 02:32:53 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
RCherin, How right you are, but then . . . don't know how i picked up
Anglo. except "white" couls mean (if caucasian) Mexicans, arabs, Indians
(from India) Italians, etc. And most "Redneck Anglo's look downon them too.
Maybe i should use WASP?
Annie
Subj: Re: Crossing Over
Date: 96-01-16 02:37:48 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
I agree with DezT Nie. I don't think I can write without something about
multicultural. That is part of what makes me be me. I wonder if the speaker
meant - leave in the multicultural but don't make it the main issue/ conflict
to solve?
And what is mainstream? All the info I read says, "Direct your manuscript to
a specific editor." I don't see anything labelled "mainstream".
Subj: Re:
Good X and Bad X
Date: 96-01-16 02:44:49 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
FAvey,
I think I posted a note in Romance Multicultural about Arizona's governors.
The latest one is about to be prosecuted.
Did anyone else get info on BOBC newsletter? I found it interesting.
Wonder if there is a Native American newsletter?
What I liked was the fact that it spent time telling good stories.
Annie
Subj: Re:RE: white vs anglo
Date: 96-01-16 10:40:38 edt
From: RCHERIN
Posted on: America Online
A big problem for bigots is determining what is white. I wouldn't say bigots
are ignorant, but their confusion definitely points to that direction. And we
can add newspapers and tv news casts to that group. How often have we seen
Anglo in news print? Or caucasian. BTW, the English consider Indian Indians
"colored" that according to BBC newscasts. Perhaps we should change white to
pink, but blacks presents a bigger problem. They range from very white to
black, which is about 100-thousand different hues. My solution is simple.
Define everyone as people, drop the color as it is very unimportant.
Subj:
Re:RE: white vs anglo
Date: 96-01-16 14:55:09 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
The latest studies on human genes points out that skin color actually has
very little to do with how closely one group is related (genetically
speaking) to another. But of course that isn't the point in real life I
guess, is it? the point is what seems to be a driving human desire to put
everything and everyone into categories and then rank them.
Why is it, even though everyone--or nearly everyone--can look at this and say
DUMB--it keeeps happening. (And if we don't do skin color, we do religion or
class or....)
Gwen
Subj: SinC
Date: 96-01-16 16:50:58 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Dale--
And I'll be the one in the slouched fedora with (no doubt) my purse
upsidedown wandering around asking if anyone's seen my keys...
Gwen
(Did everyone look as bewildered as I felt--I thought everyone except me
looked amazingly cool)
Subj: Re:RE: white vs anglo
Date: 96-01-16 17:21:22 edt
From: RCHERIN
Posted on: America Online
It is easier to classify things, perhaps. Everything in its proper place.
Pencils, pens, personalities, traits, color.
Subj: Re:SinC
Date: 96-01-16 18:13:12 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
I thought a lot of people had a "deer in headlights" glaze. The meeting was
strange because it was the rotation of officers and didn't follow the normal
pattern of other meetings I've attended. It's also hard to actually meet
people unless you're agressive about walking up to total stangers and
introducing yourself. I thought most of the cool looking ones were past or
present board members.
- Dale
Subj: Re:SinC
Date: 96-01-16 19:14:49 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
I feel better--thought I was the only Bambi there.
Gwen
Subj: Re:SinC
Date: 96-01-16 21:36:59 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Hi Gwen,
Bamb is okay... just don't end up like Bambi's mother!
- Dale
Subj: Re:RE: white vs anglo
Date: 96-01-17 00:28:51 edt
From: GYFort
Posted on: America Online
StoryGrama, I've read your posting for a few days. I like your perspective.
Unfortunately, few pay attention to "the facts," despite the mentality of
Sargent Friday. I'm "Gwen," also, but will use GY on aol, bcause you were on
first. I don't write any specific genre; am now re-writing a SciFi. Have two
"mainstream (unsold), poems and essays published. Working on a non-fiction
"The Africa Bible" with collaborators who are knowledgeable of the ancient
ways. I'm organizer/editor. Any experts welcomed. Icame to North Carolina
from Illinois three years ago. this state is supposed to be good for writers.
I'm concerned that it's "the expected" form. We will see.
Subj: Re: Crossing
Over
Date: 96-01-17 00:29:36 edt
From: DS ANTIQUE
Posted on: America Online
DezT Nie: You asked sometime back about my definition of multicultural. So
Let me try it. If you have to cross over, there must be some kind of barrier.
The clarity and weight of it, the conviction and the ferocity with which you
hold on to it matters. I think of multicultural as people who cross over
freely, maybe nervously at first, but who can cross back and forth between
cultures. This is because they want to experience the humanity on the other
side; or maybe they cannot live with it knowing the humanity on the other
side. Multiculturals are cultural cannibals, but of an ancient ritualistic
sort, sort of like Cave Painting artists; or Students with a love for
microscopes. Figures that I belong here.
Subj: Re: Crossing Over
Date: 96-01-17 02:57:03 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
GY,
Another Gwen...how cool. there's so few of us. (Don't know if its
coincidence or because of the poet Gwendolyn Brooks, but most of the people I
know who have the name are African-American).
How do you like NC? I lived on the coast (Camp Lejeune) as a child. Still
remember lightin bugs and piney woods with great nostalgia. My cousin lives
near Greenville.
I'm working with great determination on a mystery, but I also have a fantasy
story that I've been working on for years. Plus poetry, short stories, etc.
etc. I'm trying to discipline myself and focus on the one book....
Feel free to be Gwen--I can be Gwendolyn or we can add initials. Your work
sounds fascinating....
Gwen (I could be Granny Gwen)
Subj: Re:SinC
Date: 96-01-17 03:07:35 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Which is the best (or worst) tearjerker of all time--Bambi or Ol' Yeller?
Made my dad quit hunting after seeing Bambi.
So now I write about people being killed in a variety of unpleasant
ways...go figure.
Gwen
Subj: Re:RE: white vs anglo
Date: 96-01-17 07:18:31 edt
From: RCHERIN
Posted on: America Online
GY, what was wrong with Sgt. Joe Friday? I found him a compassionate human
being. If all cops were as fair there wouldn't have been incidents of the
Rodney King type.
Subj: Re:Critique Groups Forming
Date: 96-01-17 10:58:58 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
If you would like to participate in a critique group, or partnership, Please
e-mail me. We're trying to get some on-going critique groups going.
Felice
Subj: So close...
Date: 96-01-18 01:53:45 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
I rushed home Weds and signed on to the Chat just in time to see Felice
saying goodbye as some kind of Alumni group took over! I'll try again
Friday...
- DaleSubj: Re:So close...
Date: 96-01-18 01:59:00 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
Dale, you missed a really good meeting. Charles Conrad, Editor In Chief of
Anchor Books-Bantam Doubleday and Dell was our guest. I think he got as much
out of the meeting as we did. It was fun and informative. You'll have to
download the log. We always miss your presence.
Felice
Subj: Re:Meeting last night
Date: 96-01-18 19:31:07 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
I had fun at the meeting and felt like I learned a lot. Anyone else's
opinion?
Subj: Re:Meeting last night
Date: 96-01-19 11:33:50 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Can you post a message when the transcript of Wed's meeting in in the
library?
Thanks.
- Dale
Subj: Re:Meeting last night
Date: 96-01-19 20:35:08 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
Sure. No prob.
F.....
Subj: Robert Cherin
Date: 96-01-21 14:53:59 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
Join the multicultural writer's group on Wednesday, January 24 at 9:00pm
Eastern/ 8:00pm standard, 7:00pm moutain and 6:00pm eastern. Our guest will
be Robert Cherin. Robert is AOL's on-line instructor for short fiction.
Robert Cherin is a published short-story writer, and soon to be published
novelist when BLOODSTONE comes into print. His background is journalism, ten
years with a major Wire Service, and one year as a columnist for a
metropolitan daily. One Sports book, TRICK SHOTS FOR FUN & BLOOD, co-authored
with World Champion Peter Margo sold 40,000 copies, and is still in print.
He has also sold hundreds of articles and has been an editor for a few trade
journals. And has appeared on GOOD MORNING AMERICA, GOOD MORNING NEW
YORK,
ABC WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS, and ESPN pool events.
Subj: Re:Robert Cherin
Date: 96-01-21 20:36:31 edt
From: DezT Nie
Posted on: America Online
I liked Robert's earlier comment about the 100-thousand shades of Blacks. I
do so agree Robert, considering my husband is a black man who on any given
day is still of a lighter hue than any caucasion, anglo or white person,
including his own mother!
As GY Gwen knows, over in the Sci-Fi multicultural folder, I brought up the
issue of us all moving toward one race. It's kind-of like that old computer
generated cover of Time mag. (which one? OJ? Newt?) Those of "purer" races,
(which I really don't believe exist) are looking more and more like those of
specifically mixed races. But as always, humans will find other means of
classifications, valid or not.
Also, Robert, sorry I missed you Wednesday night. I was looking forward to
"speaking" with you in person.
~Destiny
Subj: Re:Races
Date: 96-01-22 11:44:38 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
the truth is--isn't it?--we have no clue what a "pure" race is. And all we
have to do is look at history anywhere and recognize that even if everyone
looks pretty much the same (Europe, China) distinctions are made and
discrimination and wars abound.
Maybe its the blessing/curse of our humanity--that what we think and imagine
can be so powerful that we will kill and die for it.
Or maybe--as my cynical dad used to say--it's usually about economic
somewhere along the line.
Gwen(who promises to be more cheerful after the next cup of coffee.)
Subj:
Re:Races
Date: 96-01-22 12:21:58 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
>>Gwen(who promises to be more cheerful after the next cup of coffee.)<<
Gee, Gwen, it sounds like it's going to take more than coffee to cheer you up
today. Just think of that big banquet filled with many races where they'll
hand you that Nobel Prize for literature.... <G> Cheered up now?
- Dale
Subj: Re:Races
Date: 96-01-22 17:37:36 edt
From: Jogerrit
Posted on: America Online
Gwen,
I absolutely agree with your cynical dad. It's all about economics.
People who feel they're economically threatened will always look for someone
else to blame it on. When everyone's prosperous, no problem. But as soon as
the economy goes bad, watch out.
Tess
Subj: Re:Economics
Date: 96-01-22 18:23:36 edt
From: FGSnyder
Posted on: America Online
Thought I'd butt in. I agree that differences in race don't have much to do
with war. Most of history's wars are among traditional rivals (France and
England, Germany and Russia, China and Japan, Poland and almost everybody)
who are generally of the same racial grouping. of the same general race.
And the ferocity of the conflict has little to do with race, as the special
ferocity of the Norwegian-Swedish-Danish wars, the present Hutu-Tutsi
conflict in Rwanda, or the battles between Iroquois and Huron would
demonstrate.
But the economic rationale doesn't cover everything. Rich countries wage
wars against rich countries as often as they do poor, and vice versa. World
War I featured the most prosperous nations (England and Germany) allied with
the the poorest and most backward (Russia and the Ottoman Empire,
respectively), with France and Italy and Austria thrown in on various sides
without much economic sense. Our own economic interests were more in line
with Germany than with England (our biggest trading rival) yet we chose
consanguinity over economics.
-- Frank (who thinks the whole thing is very complicated)
Subj: Re:Races
Date: 96-01-22 18:26:39 edt
From: RCHERIN
Posted on: America Online
Apparently prosperity doesn't help race relations either. There are plenty of
rich people who hate blacks, chinese, etc. As long as people are different,
they'll be hated by someone. If we were all the same, we'd start in on people
with brown eyes.
Subj: Re:Races
Date: 96-01-23 00:34:02 edt
From: Gukkle
Posted on: America Online
I doubt that, as you said, "If we were all the same, we'd start in on people
with brown eyes." Everybody knows its those damned blue-eyes that cause all
the trouble.
Keith
Subj: Re:Races
Date: 96-01-23 01:11:17 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
I'm conflicted--I have green eyes, jason has brown and my kids have blue or
green--butI'm in a better mood since I'm up here in Santa Barbara with Jason.
Dale--you've been prying into my secret fantasies--confess....
Most of the time I'm the one who just knows there's a pony in the pile
somewhere--
Love you all,
Gwen--who now thinks we should maybe be amazed and grateful for all the times
we do get along (and for rainbows and butterflies and....)
jvaw00/xllllllll******* ]/jasin,
Subj: Re:Races
Date: 96-01-23 11:49:19 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Gwen,
>>Dale--you've been prying into my secret fantasies--confess....<<<
Yes, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Especially that one with the pool
boy, the duck and Brad Pitt.... <G>
- Dale
Subj: Re:Pool boy
Date: 96-01-23 15:56:01 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Come one--with Brad Pitt who needs the pool boy and the duck? (But he did
love hearing me give my acceptance speech for the Nobel several times over)
Gwen
Subj: Re:Pool boy
Date: 96-01-23 19:56:14 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
The pool boy is to applaud and the duck is for humor. Ducks (dare I say it?
Yes!) quack me up.
- Dale
(Send collective groans and flames to Gwen, thank you. She asked
why...)
Subj: Oh, I thought it was a Goose
Date: 96-01-24 02:13:14 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
Dale, the joke was so bad, I thought it was a goose...why? It was a real
"honker"
Honk, Honk, Honk
Felice, who loves bad jokes.
Subj: Re:Change of topic
Date: 96-01-24 02:25:44 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
Sorry to drag you away from your humor and groans. =D. But a friend of mine
is looking for info on an African American mountain man around 1835 in Santa
Fe and San Pedro Valley. Named Rafer Joon or Jones. He worked with a French
trader named Jean Pierre l'Fontaine, aka, Chantecleer Le Coq. (Speaking of
fowl ; D.) Thanks
AnnieB007
Subj: Pool boy
Date: 96-01-25 01:56:06 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
applause hmm?
And the duck...I'm quacking up--but Brad said it was the pits.
He couldn't have meant me--could he?
Gwen
Subj: Next Meeting-January 31
Date: 96-01-25 10:31:03 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
The next meeting of the Multicultural Writer's Group will be an open chat.
So, if you've got something to talk about, join us. The meeting still
follows proto, but you decide the subject matter.
Multicultural Writer's Group meets on Wednesday nights in the Writer's
Conference Room. 9:00pm Eastern/ 8:00 pm Central.
Subj: Re:Pool boy
Date: 96-01-25 12:37:27 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
>>He couldn't have meant me--could he?<<<
Of course not. That's why the pool boy is applauding.
Show some confidence. If you get into this situation with Brad and it turns
out you're not as good as you thought:
(a) It's too late anyway.
(b) With Brad, who cares? I'm straight and even I think he's good looking<G>.
- Dale
Subj: Re:Pool boy
Date: 96-01-25 15:09:59 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
It could be Brad's fault. Why must women always take the blame? ;)
Felice
Subj: Re:Pool boy
Date: 96-01-25 15:55:56 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
>> Why must women always take the blame? ;)<<
Women? You must be listening to a different set of female comedians than I
am....<G>!
- Dale
Subj: Re:Pool boy
Date: 96-01-25 16:43:41 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Wasn't it Melissa Etheridge who said Brad could change a girl's mind?
And isn't it lovely to know that sexism, ageism, lookism (and whatever other
-ism's we've been indulging in here...besides bad jokes) is an equal
opportunity employer?)
But certain faces and what--images--are wonderful blank canvases to conjure
with. Brad is one--the long-haired guy who does computer security and caught
that computer crook is another, this guy who helps at a food distribution
where I volunteer....he's a former pro football player with the look of a
Masai warrior and the most impressive quiet dignity I've encountered in long
time. There's also a Chinese grandmother who comes to get food at the same
place who delights me--she doesn't speak English, I don't speak Mandarin--so
we smile and bow.
But as I writer I find I realize it's mystery and a sense of power and
presence that draws me--
Hmm--as I boringly mediate outloud--hope to create that sense in my book...
(Some one stop her--she's talking and can't shut up)
Gwen
Subj: Re:Change of topic
Date: 96-01-25 16:46:04 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Not familiar with this BUT will be checking on the University of California's
listings this afternoon and will see if I can find anything--(if I get
something will it be a feather in my cap or at least something to crow about)
Okay, okay--I'm leaving--
Gwen
Subj: Re:Toward evening
Date: 96-01-26 22:14:32 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
I really liked this, but am tickled about the diffferent impressions it
leaves on all of us. Does anyone know how to instantly address notes to 100
people? I got lost in where I was and who I sent to.
AnnieB007
Subj: Readings
Date: 96-01-27 12:26:39 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
There's a good article in the "Mentor" section of this board on public
reading. It's called "Poet Vs Actor," but it will apply to prose, also. I
suggest that anyone interested should download and read it. Shameless self
promotion, including readings, are part of the game, and this should help.
BTW, the local Sisters in Crime chapter in L.A. are having pre-published
authors read 5 minutes of their material, so reading skills shouldn't be
developed after you're published!
Dale
(Who gives business presentations all the time, including presentations for
up to 1400 people. I'm still nervous of the idea of getting up and reading
some of my fiction, however, and found this article useful...)
Subj: Re:Book
Signing
Date: 96-01-27 14:18:23 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
I went out in blizzard like snow to see LyVrle Spencer last night. She was
totally different from what I expected. I don't know. I was disappointed.
Don't know what I was expecting. She tried to be nice, but I think she was
kind of like, "What, a black person that reads my books?" You know I have to
finid some excuse for the weird tension. Anyway, I'm not looking forward to
doing booksignings. I can usually talk to most people, but I don't like
being in those situations where you're forced to be "beautiful". What do you
guys think? What's the best way to handle that?
Felice
Subj: Re:Book Signing
Date: 96-01-27 21:35:35 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Hi Felice,
It's part of the job, and for a new writer it's an important part of the job.
The MWA had an article called "Book Signings From Hell" that talked about the
many pitfalls, and I've decided my strategy is:
(1) try to sign with other authors, especially established ones. If no one
wants your signature you at least have someone to talk to.
(2) Avoid chain stores, especially in Malls. Colin and Howard can pact them
in, but you're likely to be ignored or asked for directions to other mall
stores.
(3) Support the independent specialty stores. They'll recommend a book if
they believe in it. That's how "Bridges of Madison County" became a hit.
(4) Keep smiling, even in the face of disaster.
(5) See 4<G>.
- Dale
Subj: Re:Book Signing
Date: 96-01-27 21:37:54 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
P.S.
6. You could always hire an actress for the signings, if you get a big enough
advance. Let's see, for Felice, Whitney Houston and for me... well, maybe
Dean Cain with a little gray at the temples?
- Dale
Subj: Re:Book Signing
Date: 96-01-27 22:06:48 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
Dale, I think Whitney is a knock out, but I think I prefer Janet Jackson.
After all, Whitney and I are too much alike. (I could be telling the truth.
:)
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Felice
Subj: Re:Book Signing
Date: 96-01-28 10:19:38 edt
From: Jogerrit
Posted on: America Online
Felice,
that's always a danger with booksignings -- the author doesn't turn out the
way you expected. I know when people come to get a book by me, they usually
look a little startled to discover that Tess Gerritsen is ... Chinese. I
don't know whether they're pleasantly or unpleasantly surprised. All you can
do is smile and and keep smiling.
And yes, it can be torture.
I met LaVyrle Spencer once and she seemed quite nice. I'd almost forgotten
-- you two live in the same arctic state, don't you?
Tess
Subj: Re:Book Signing
Date: 96-01-28 12:03:10 edt
From: RCHERIN
Posted on: America Online
Why not stir up a little controversy beforehand. Go to the local newspaper,
tell them you think theirs is a city of illiterates. People may come to boo
you, but they'll buy your book.
Subj: Re:Book Signing
Date: 96-01-28 12:26:53 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Hi Rich,
>>a city of illiterates. People may come to boo you, but they'll buy your
book.<<
Depends on the city. If you're right they'll boo you, all right, but they
won't know what to do with the book (except maybe throw it at you!) <G>.
- Dale
Subj: Re:Book Signing
Date: 96-01-28 14:19:06 edt
From: Jogerrit
Posted on: America Online
Rich,
being the nice, well-mannered lady that I am (sly grin) I would never do
anything to make people boo me. At least, not intentionally. We have to
keep on smiling and hope that'll disarm them. And people who hate you won't
buy your book.
Tess
Subj: Re:Book Signing
Date: 96-01-28 15:47:20 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
In a city of illiterites--who will read the interview? Try radio instead....
Gwen
Subj: ATTN: MULTICULTURAL WRITERS
Date: 96-01-28 23:37:15 edt
From: WFBMM
Posted on: America Online
ATTENTION MULTICULTURAL WRITERS:
If you are interested in joining a critique group, or if you are looking for
a partner, please send me, WFBMM (MW Critique Group Coordinator) an e-mail,
and I'll send you more information.
Tanya
Subj: Chinese writers
Date: 96-01-29 02:32:58 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
A publishing company is looking for Chinese American writers. I found it in
the Writeres Market while I was perusing last week. I think it s in the C
section. I droppped a note in the Romance message board, but forgot here.
Annie B007
Subj: Re:bad book signings
Date: 96-01-29 09:23:24 edt
From: SurfGrape
Posted on: America Online
Well, if the book signing is truly awful, just remember, you'll have some
great stories to tell your fellow writers later......
Remember the writer's creed: Everything, but everything, is material.
Subj:
Re:everything's copy
Date: 96-01-29 21:43:49 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Years ago I was in the midst of very emotional, life-changing moment with a
person--and I realized part of me was very present, the tears and emotions
were very real...and the other part was taking notes.
Also once had a person try to seduce me (I was very married at the time--he
was a scum) by telling me that since I was a writer I owed it to myself...and
I could get a book out of it. I turned him down politey but was tempted to
tell him thata chapter would have been overreaching...I wasn't sure I could
have gotten a complete sentence...
Gwen
Subj: Re:everything's copy
Date: 96-01-29 22:29:49 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
LOL, Gwen! You're too funny. I have a hard time incorporating others in my
work. I can put pieces of myself and my views, but not necessarily my
friends.
Felice
Subj: Re:everything's copy
Date: 96-01-30 00:48:09 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
>>and I could get a book out of it<<
"Footbridges of Madison County"?
- Dale
Subj: Re:everything's copy
Date: 96-01-30 01:16:44 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
LOL--
Gwen
Subj: Re:everything's copy
Date: 96-01-30 12:59:41 edt
From: LesDan
Posted on: America Online
C'mon Gwen, you gotta admit there's at least a scene there somewhere! And a
pretty funny scene at that.
Subj: Re:everything's copy
Date: 96-01-30 18:34:45 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Trust me--it was a scene--and God knows it's true--everything's copy
Gwen
Subj: Re:everything's copy
Date: 96-01-31 01:39:18 edt
From: AnnieB007
Posted on: America Online
Gwen LOL. Did this start somewhere, or were you just musing? I agree with
most statements, though.
When I was having a very bad time once, I was telling a friend my
problems. She burst out laughing and said, "You sound just like a soap
opera!"
I may owe my sanity to her, since it kind of put it all in perspective.
<g> So far though (19 years later) I still can't write it. (shrug?) Life is
great!
Annie B
Subj: Re:everything's copy
Date: 96-01-31 02:36:43 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
"Everything's copy" brings up an interesting question: Do we run the danger
of becoming a life-experience vampire if we recycle everything through our
writing, feeding off life to support our fiction?
I know my protagonist is a much better person than I am, even though many of
his "experiences" are shared with me. I can edit out all the things that I
don't want to show in my writing. In addition, in the mystery genre I can
have conclusions where justice does triumph and where integrity and honesty
do pay. Now, if I start viewing my real life as something to feed this
fictional world, don't I run the risk of anesthesizing myself, so that my
feelings and reactions are filtered through an author's perceptions, and not
lived as fully or as freely as any other "normal" person?
- Dale
Subj: Re:life vampires
Date: 96-01-31 10:00:14 edt
From: SurfGrape
Posted on: America Online
Dale,
Yes, yes, and yes. It's a danger of our profession. However, it does have
its upside. Friends are usually flattered when you put bits of them and
their experiences in your stories. Even the embarassing stuff. An example:
when I was young, I shared a room with my younger sister. She didn't snore
or sleepwalk. Worse. She ate in her sleep. She chewed and smacked her lips
all night long, like she was having a ten-course meal.
The first young adult novel I ever wrote, I gave my protagonist a younger
sister, who (you guessed it) ate in her sleep. I thought my sister would
kill me. She laughed. She loved it! Even told all her friends that it was
her.
Other people I know come up to me and say, "You're a writer, I've got a story
for you!" Then they tell me the most unbelievable things. And it's all
useless for writing, because it's so incredible. Then, ten minutes later,
they'll let something slip about Aunt Betty who used to do volunteer work at
Church and washed all the priest's robes because she secretly had a crush on
him and wanted to touch his clothes, as a pitiful way to be near him. And
THEN I start thinking, hey, that really illuminates character. I could
really use this........
Margaret
Subj: Re:life vampires
Date: 96-01-31 10:35:43 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
I had a friend--a woman I worked for stringing for a local throw-away
paper--who quit journalism because she said she began to feel like the
eternal voyeur.
As writers I think the privilege we have is giving voice--telling our own
truth as well as we are able, but also for people who don't have the words.
I remember years ago wondering what the point to all this scribble, scribble
was and I talked with a neighbor who'd just finished reading Thornbirds.
This friend had five children, one of whom was "troubled" (juvenile hall to
Folsom troubled). One of the characters also had a son like that...and my
friend said (with tears) "she knew how I feel"....
Gwen
Subj: Re:life and art and stuff
Date: 96-01-31 10:43:31 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
Dale--
You're right, though, our lives and the people in them are what really
matters and the danger of seeing everything as "material" means we could lose
touch with our lives...and the ironic consequence would be that we would then
lose our art as well. (See testimony of one Midas, professional monarch).
Years ago (when I was young and even more ignorant than I am now) I
apologized to a friend--an older man--for missing church the week before for
some kind of "family thing". He fixed me with a stern gaze (peering over his
glasses if he stayed in character) and said, "Your life is your church."
The gift the "multicultural" writers have is a voice and the ability to tell
the truth in voices that may not have been heard before....
Gwen
Subj: Re:Change of topic
Date: 96-02-01 01:46:09 edt
From: DezT Nie
Posted on: America Online
The only African American mountain man and trader I've heard of is Jim
Beckworth from the Mississippi to the Pacific Ocean...
Subj: Re:life and art
and stuff
Date: 96-02-01 02:02:53 edt
From: DezT Nie
Posted on: America Online
Okay so, I've just finished and submitted to agents, and been refused by all
seven of my first batch including Robin Rue at Anita Diament, the
autobiographical ficion of my youth - a sort of coming of age story.
It's the most honest, steamy, illicit, blunt and I hope even humorous, if not
painfully humorous story. It took me darn near 15 years to write it even
though as it was happening I knew it was a "story" - worse than ANY soap
opera. My cousin and best freind is the only person that I've had the guts
to let read it and she said it was the most painful thing for her. She's
read my stuff before so she tried to say objectively that she liked it but
realistically she hates it because it's so vivid and of course, she's in it.
Worse yet, it's all about my first love and heiffer that my beloved cousin
is, TOLD HIM!!!. Of course he immediately wanted to know what was he like in
it, what does he say in it, what is his name in it. She better be glad she's
in North Carolina and I'm in CA -- I love her to death and death it would
have been! I need a therapist just to help me get through the submission
part of it, when writing it was supposed to be therapy! It was very,
extremely hard to do. I kept wanting to make up parts just so I wouldn't
have to remember the awful truth!
~Destiny
Subj: Re:life and art and stuff
Date: 96-02-01 21:24:58 edt
From: BAvey
Posted on: America Online
That's one of the hardest things about writing. When you put so much of
yourself into the story, and it gets rejected, feels like they're rejecting
you. If the characters are only bits and pieces then it still feels like
you're getting rejected! :D
The only time the writer wins, is when we do it because we love it-and don't
care about getting published. Or, we get published.
Then, we get a whole 'nother set of things to obsess about.
Felice
Subj: Re:life and art and stuff
Date: 96-02-02 10:20:52 edt
From: RCHERIN
Posted on: America Online
Rejection is a part of the writing process. Part of the marriage process,
too. <g
Subj: Re:life and art and stuff
Date: 96-02-02 13:46:13 edt
From: BUnderw170
Posted on: America Online
Keep trying. Look at what's selling, study plotting techniques. Don't give
up!
P.S. Speaking of plotting techniques, Waiting to Exhale was one of the few
books about three or four women where no one died (even though Gloria had a
heart attack and ALMOST died)...
Subj: Re:life and art and stuff
Date: 96-02-02 23:05:56 edt
From: DezT Nie
Posted on: America Online
What kind of plotting techniques are appropriate when everything I'm writing
is true and as it happened? I don't want there to be fictional content even
though I've changed all the names and places.
I do keep rewriting and re-editing, forcing myself to remember specific
dialogue so that I can show more instead of just tell. Any more advice?
Subj:
Re:life and art and stuff
Date: 96-02-03 08:59:27 edt
From: RCHERIN
Posted on: America Online
My suggestion, since it's not fiction, is submit it as nonfiction. In fiction
it will need a plot, suspense; a real story, not fact treated as fact.
Subj:
Asian population
Date: 96-02-05 21:39:03 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
In an article about the latest appointment to the California Supreme Court
(an Asian male), the Sacramento Bee newspaper casually mentioned that the
Asian population of California is *50%* greater than the African-American
population!
I knew the Asian and African-American population of Los Angeles is
approximately equal, but I'm stunned to learn there are so many more Asians
than African-Americans in California. True, "Asian" covers a lot of ground in
the census figures, but I'm still shocked.
The total Asian population of the U.S. is just 3%, by the way. Considering
the number of Asians in my home State of Hawaii and my current state of
California, I should just forget about marketing to the "Asian market" (such
as it is) east of the California border!
Just thought I'd pass this on.
- Dale
Subj: Re:Asian population
Date: 96-02-05 22:42:05 edt
From: DezT Nie
Posted on: America Online
Dale, I see you quoted the Sacramento Bee, do you live in this area? I'm in
Sac Town and it doesn't seem there are more Asians than Blacks here, however
in Burlingame, it seems there are a perponderance (or rather, you get my
intent) of Asians - in the broadest racial scope.
If there are about 50/50 in LA, where are the rest of your people? Mine are
easily pin-pointed and they sure ain't in Eldorado Hills! :D
Subj:
Multicultural Meeting
Date: 96-02-05 22:42:52 edt
From: DezT Nie
Posted on: America Online
Joing the Multicultural Writers Group this Wednesday, Feburary 7th in the
Writer's Club Conference Room at 6pm PST. This week will be open chat --
come and meet the members,
ask your questions, join in discussion and find out the exciting happenings
scheduled for the
rest of the month!
Subj: Correction
Date: 96-02-05 22:51:39 edt
From: DezT Nie
Posted on: America Online
On Feb 7 we will be critiquing Jschofi's literary mainstream piece, "Toward
Evening". The Multicultural Writer's Group meets Wednesday night in the
Writer's Conference Room @ 9:00pm Eastern, 8:00pm Central, 7:00pm Mountain
and 6:00pm pacific.
Subj: Re:Asian Pop.
Date: 96-02-06 09:02:42 edt
From: Jogerrit
Posted on: America Online
Dale and Dez,
I can tell you this -- the Asians sure aren't around here in Maine where I
live!
When I grew up in San Diego, you saw hardly any other Asians. We stuck out
like sore ... well, you know. I think the big influx occurred during and
after Vietnam. Also, now there's a very large Filipino and Korean
contingent, which is something I never saw. I was amazed, the last time I
was in California, to see how many Asians there are in the Gardena area.
What concerns me is that the whites in So. California feel very threatened by
this, and they take it out on the whole race. It's that economic concern
again.
Too bad the rest of the country can't be like Hawaii, which seems to be a
relatively tolerant place. Hubby and I lived there for 12 years, and as a
mixed marriage, we were in the majority. I think the number one racial
category for newborn babies there is "mixed." There's no better way to
encourage tolerance than to have your own grandchild carry the blood of
another race.
Tess
Subj: Re:Asian Pop.
Date: 96-02-06 13:12:18 edt
From: StoryGrama
Posted on: America Online
A rainbow of grandchildren--I like that thought. The town in which I live
has it's share of problems--from drugs to kids shooting one another--but the
reason we moved here years ago and one reason we stay is the diversity. I
think that working with one another (if you can't be blessed with
grandchildren) is another way to build ties--the easiest people to dislike
(other than your own kin occasionally) are those you don't know--and those
who seem not to want to know you.
Gwen
Subj: Re:Asian population
Date: 96-02-06 14:13:47 edt
From: DFlanagan
Posted on: America Online
Hi Dez,
I'm in L.A. I was reading a Bee article re-printed in the local L.A. legal
paper.
The Bee meant Asians in the entire state, not just Sac. L.A. is 50/50, and
some parts of Orange County have a lot of Asians (mostly S.E. Asian refugees
after the wars there), but maybe it's the S.F. area that swings the balance.
I don't know where they're hiding, which is why I was astounded by the Bee
article!
Best regards,
Dale
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