unprecedented event in UFOlogy

072/417 11 Nov 89 03:25:00

From: Michael Corbin

To: All

Subj: For Immediate Release

Attr:

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November 10, 1989

ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO)--This evening saw

perhaps an unprecedented event in UFOlogy. KLAS-TV in Las Vegas,

Nevada has been airing a UFO special during the evening news

which began on Monday dealing with the UFO mystery and cover-up.

The series, which has been covered by ParaNet, began its coverage

with a history of UFOs beginning in the late 1940s and moving

forward through the numerous sighting reports to the cattle

mutilations, which was aired last evening. As promised at the

close of last evening's show, George Knapp, a news anchorman for

Channel 8 in Vegas, stated that a scientific person would be

featured on tonight's program who has claimed to work at Area 51,

the government's super-secret test range at Nellis AFB in Nevada.

Indeed, quite a story was told by Robert Lazar, a physicist who

claimed that he had worked on a project at Area 51 involving

flying disks provided by alien intelligences.

Over the last year, ParaNet has carried stories relating to

possible involvement with the government in projects of this

nature at the Nevada test site. Up to now, the stories have been

of a very speculative nature. Although the material presented by

Robert Lazar remains unconfirmed, enough information has been

disclosed that ParaNet's large investigative staff in Nevada has

started an intensive investigation into this release. It is

interesting to note that Robert Lazar is an associate of John

Lear and has been providing this information to Lear over the

last few months. Lear has appeared on Channel 8 on numerous

occasions together will Bill Cooper discussing Lear's famous 'ET

Hypothesis.' According to Lear, Lazar was instrumental in

providing Lear with locations overlooking the test site which

would provide a good view of the objects as they flew into the

night sky. Lear attempted to shoot video of an object as it

maneuvered through the night sky during last summer, however

nothing was captured on the tape of a substantive nature. Lear

also relates that his group was harassed by a Lincoln County

sheriff following his attempts to take the pictures.

Below is a transcript of the program that aired this

evening. All paragraphs out of quotes are the narrator of the

segment. We were as accurate as possible on the transcription,

however there are a couple of places where comments were edited

out due to inability to understand what was being said.

Further reports will be provided as information becomes

available.

=================================================================

We've been working on the story for some time....UFO

researchers claim that there is a secret government within our

government. Now this may be hard to believe coming from the UFO

perspective, but we have learned that Watergate and the Iran

Contra scandal that factions within our government can and do

pursue their own hidden agendas outside of the law; outside the

control of the Congress or the knowledge of the American people.

This is exactly the type of operation that we hear about tonight.

It's a chilling scenario with worldwide implications that may

have its roots right here [Las Vegas, Nevada].

Area 51, that mysterious corner of the Nevada Test Site, is

no longer considered a secret. The fact that secretive things

go on here isn't evident; even to the Soviets who make daily spy

flights over the facility to take a peek at what's going on.

These photos, never before shown in public, are about as close as

anyone will ever come to seeing what the place looks like again.

The dry bed at Groom Lake, the corrugated buildings, a three-mile

long runway and some highly sophisticated radar and detection

equipment. Its been known by many names over the years --

Dreamland; The Ranch; The Skunk Works. If ever there was a place

to test the secret new technology, this is it. And that's

exactly what has been done here for decades.

Area 51 is where Francis Gary Powers and the other U-2

pilots were trained in the 50s. And, where the U-2 itself was

developed. The SR-71 spy plane that spotted Soviet missiles in

Cuba in the early 60s were also developed at 51. 51 is where

Stealth technology was nurtured, where Star Wars devices are

still tested, and where all manner of CIA [unknown] business has

been plotted and refined. It's the perfect place for secret

things, but of course, that's no secret. 51 is ringed by the

forbidden vastness of the Nevada test site; by the looming Groom

Mountain and by sparsely populated desert expanses. But the

people that do live out here have no love lost for the military,

but they're conservative, patriotic and they mind their own

business.

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088/417 14 Nov 89 03:22:00

From: Robert Klinn

To: All

Subj: Area 51: The Nevada Test Site's Supersecret UFO Base?

Attr:

------------------------------------------------

With two top local TV stations here in Las Vegas -- KLAS-TV and KTNV-TV --

carrying deadly serious news reports this week of real alien UFOs POSSIBLY

being flown out of the supersecret Area 51, that portion of the U.S.

Government's Nevada Test Site which the Air Force refuses to acknowledge as

even existing, the situation here appears like The War of the Worlds.

Disinformation? Reality?

What next?

At KTNV-TV, photographer Clay Downey and reporter Glen Meek are tracking down

the nature of the on-going projects at Area 51. Off-air, Meek says he has

discovered that Area 51 is comprised of four sections. Of those, he has

learned the type of activity occurring at two of them. He has been having much

difficulty learning the type of activity occurring at the other two.

KTNV will broadcast reports this week at 5:30 p.m. Wed., Thurs, & Fri.

In a videotape presented by KLAS-TV newsman George Knapp, a UFO performs abrupt

manuevers over what may be the "S-4" portion of Area 51 at the Test Site.

Knapp's final report will be broadcast tonight, Tuesday at approximately 6:15

p.m.

Knapp's star witness is scientist Robert Lazar, who drew a picture of the craft

he saw operating at the base.

Lazar emphatically claims these are alien craft -- not human-made devices.

Lazar says at least one UFO appeared to have been ruptured by a projectile.

War of the Worlds?

Robert B. Klinn

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097/417 15 Nov 89 01:55:00

From: Michael Corbin

To: All

Subj: Installment on Dreamland continued.

Attr:

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November 13, 1989

ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO) -- In our

continuing coverage of the remarkable revelations coming out of

Las Vegas, Nevada, here is the next installment to the program

aired on November 13, 1989 by television station KLAS-TV and

George Knapp.

=================================================================

News Anchor persons:

A former government scientist has alleged that the U.S.

military is flying recovered UFOs at a secret base in the Nevada

desert. The allegations about the secret facility near the Groom

Mountains first surfaced on Eyewitness News on last Friday

[November 10, 1989].

Scientist Bob Lazar says that there are at least nine of the

flying saucers being tested and that they were not built on

Earth. George Knapp has more on the continuation of our series

on UFOs.

Lazar: "Yeah. It was obvious it came from somewhere else, uh,

other than Earth."

Scientist Bob Lazar was convinced that the technology he saw

being tested at a secret base in the Nevada desert is of alien

origin, and for Lazar the proof is, at least, partially in the

furniture. One of the nine flying disks he says he saw at the

base, which was designated S-4, looks exactly like this UFO

photographed in Europe [Photo of UFO shown]. Lazar called it

the "sport model."

Lazar: "I gave everything names -- the top hat one and you know

the jello mold and, uh, the sport model operated without any

hitches at all. I mean, it looked new. If I knew what a new

flying saucer looked like. One of them looked like it was hit

with some sort of a projectile. It had a large hole in the

bottom and a large hole in the top with the metal bent out like

some sort of, you know, large caliber 4 or 5 inch had gone

through it."

Even before he saw the sport model operate, Lazar says, he

suspected that the ship came from somewhere else. The

realization slapped him in the face the first time he glimpsed

the inside of the disk.

Lazar: "I got to look inside and it had really small chairs. I

think that was the first confirmation I had. That was just a

shocking thing because everytime before that I was able to label

it. This is just a little advance that a group of scientists had

formed and, you know, they're keeping it secret, and yeah, we

could have built a big disk like that, and yeah, that's no

problem, and, you know, we could have adapted the use(?) to make

it fly, but why does it have little furniture inside? [garbled].

And things began to click together just all too fast."

A few of the disks had been completely dismantled to find

out how they worked, Lazar says, but others were fully

operational. A Japanese TV network created this animated version

of Lazar's story after his first interview with us aired in May

[showing video]. Lazar says the dramatization is similar to a

test flight he witnessed.

Lazar: "The bottom of it glowed blue and began to hiss like any,

like high voltage does on a round sphere. It's my impression

that the reason that they're round and have no sharp edges is to

contain the high voltage like, uh, if you've seen a high voltage

system's insulators -- things are round or else you get a corona

discharge. In either case, it began to hiss as in high voltage

and it lifted off the ground quietly except for that little hiss

in the background, and that stopped as soon as it reached about

20 or 30 feet."

Lazar says the test of the sport model was a short one --

that it made only a few moves before setting back down. He

didn't see who was actually flying the craft, but was very

impressed, nonetheless.

Lazar: "Well, there's no action reaction system to it. There's

no, like in a jet engine, exhaust gas being thrown out -- no

propeller, no noise. It's just, for all intents and purposes,

magic."

To Lazar's knowledge, the flying disks are not being used,

for say, any flights to Jupiter. He said excessive caution and

intense secrecy contributed to the plodding pace of the program

and were a main source of his disenchantment.

Lazar: "It's just unfair, outright, not to put it in the hands

of the overall scientific community. There are people much more

capable of dealing with this information, and by this time would

have gotten a lot further along than this small select group of

people working out in the middle of the desert. They don't even

have the facilities, really, to completely analyze what they're

dealing with."

Gene Huff: "Well he was being quiet. If he kept me abreast of

anything, he kept me abreast of the security checks -- they'd

randomly drop by his house. They'd threaten his life; they'd

threaten his wife's life. They had done all that so we really

didn't converse, I mean, he really was adhering to the program."

Gene Huff is a Las Vegas real estate appraiser. A regular

guy who just happens to have a friend in the flying saucer

business. He learned about Lazar's S-4 experiences only after a

long period. Lazar is anxious for people to know that he didn't

just run right out and spill the secrets of the universe, and

that some things are properly kept confidential.

Lazar: "I did not believe that this should be a security matter.

Some of it, sure. But, just the concept that there's definite

proof, and uh, we even have articles from another world, another

system, you just can't not tell everyone. A lot of people don't

believe that. But, I do."

When he reached what he felt was his bursting point, he took

Huff and a few others to the edge of the Groom Mountains to see

the flights for themselves. A total of five witnesses on two

consecutive weeks managed to dodge security patrols long enough

to see the strange glowing object lift above the mountain.

Huff(?): "Uh, it came up above the same mountain. It moved

around. It did a step move -- it actually went up in the air

like this [showing details with hands] and it hovered then

dropped way down then it just floated around and cruised around.

It starts coming up the mountain range...."

This home video tape was recorded during one of the trips to

the Groom Mountains [showing video tape. A lot of

talking....Object in sight....Mention of brightness of the

object....].

Admittedly, the tape proves very little by itself because,

with the distance and darkness, there are no reference points

other than the alleged flying disk, but Lazar's information about

the time and location of the test flight proves correct -- not

once but twice. That, according to our off-camera interviews

with each of the other witnesses. Gene Huff describes his second

sighting:

Huff: "Through the telescope we could see an elliptical-shaped

light. You can only get so close even with a telescope to a

secure facility. Anyway, it came up by us very rapidly. It

glowed and glows brighter like a star and we almost got the

feeling that it was going to explode, it glowed so brightly. We

backed up behind the car then it went down and glowed back up a

little bit and then very softly glided back over, back where the

mountains where it came up, hovered for awhile, and then that's

that....Just like you see in the movies."

Bob Lazar isn't the only person to claim "inside knowledge"

of the flying disks at the test site -- he is just the only

person to say so publicly. We have communicated with several

people who say they know of the saucer program. A technician in

a highly sensitive position told us it is "common knowledge among

those with high security clearances that recovered alien disks

are stored at the Nevada test site." A Las Vegas professional,

who once served in the military and was stationed at the test

site, said he saw a flying disk land outside the boundaries of

Area 51 -- that it was quickly surrounded by security personnel

and that he was taken away and debriefed for several hours. A

man who once worked at Groom Lake as a technician, at our

request, wrote this letter explaining how he inadvertently walked

into the wrong hangar and saw what appeared to be a large

metallic disk under a tarp. It was being examined by men in lab

coats. And, an airman who worked at Nellis at a radar

installation says he and his fellow servicemen watched over a

period of five nights, unusual objects flying over the Groom

Mountains. He says the radar images indicates the objects zoomed

into range at speeds of 7,000 miles per hour and then would stop

on a dime, and that nothing we have is capable of doing that.

The airman says that when word of his sighting got out, he was

ordered to turn off his radar sensors for that area and told to

keep quiet about the matter because it did not happen.

None of this means that the military is actually flying

alien spacecraft in the Nevada desert. It could all perhaps be

explained as some other secret program. Lazar insists that's not

the case.

We put the matter to the U.S. Navy, which according to

Lazar, is running the saucer show. Four different naval offices

were contacted. All denied having any information in their

files. The Naval Research Lab said it conducted a thorough

search but found "zip." Naval Intelligence said much the same

thing, adding, it is not required to create a file where one

doesn't exist. A side note: We also requested files on a UFO

sighting over Tremonton, Utah in 1952. The Navy spent more than

a thousand hours studying film of that sighting -- a fact that's

been noted in several publications -- but, for purposes of our

request, the Navy couldn't find those files either.

Lazar: "The group that runs this project, whether it really is

the Navy or they just say that, apparently these people have

executive power -- they don't report to anyone."

Tomorrow, more troubling allegations of the military

potential of alien technology.

=================================================================

This file is available on ParaNet as Area51-2.ufo.

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146/417 20 Nov 89 00:16:00

From: Michael Corbin

To: All

Subj: More on Lazar and Dreamland/Area 51

Attr:

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November 14, 1989

ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO) -- In our

continuing coverage of the Riddle of Area 51, here is yet another

installment of the KLAS-TV program being aired in Las Vegas,

Nevada featuring Bob Lazar, who has 'come out of the closet' so

to speak with information regarding government testing of UFOs.

=================================================================

Just over this ridge [showing a photo of Area 51], tucked

inside the test tubes of a hidden government base, the secrets of

the universe may be unfolding. The area is designated S-4, and

according to one man who claims to have worked there, S-4 harbors

scientific achievements that would astonish our deepest

thinkers. It is technology that, if it exists, could change the

world, but is allegedly bottled up by military minds.

Lazar: "It's not an overall government project. It's not

something that Congress appropriates money for. 2 billion is for

this; 15 billion for flying saucers; 8 billion for Star Wars. It

doesn't go like that. I don't believe that they have any

knowledge of it at all."

The technology that Bob Lazar says he saw extends far beyond

flying saucers. An anti-matter reactor allows the spaceships to

produce their own gravitational fields, he says, such a

technology, if real, would answer UFO skeptics who argue that

aliens could never visit Earth because the distances between

worlds are too great, even at the speed of light.

Lazar: "Gravity distorts time and space. Just like if you had a

water bed and put a bowling ball in the middle. It warps it down

like that -- that's exactly what happens to space. Imagining

that you were in a spacecraft that could exert a tremendous

gravitational field by itself you could sit on any particular

place and turn on the gravity generator and actually warp space

and time, and fold it. By shutting that off, you'd click back

and you'd be a tremendous distance from where you were but time

would not have even moved because you essentially shut it off. I

mean it is so far fetched, people....it's difficult for people to

grasp, and as stubborn as the scientific community is they'll

never buy it, but this is, in fact, that's just what happens."

Actually, Lazar's explanation is very close to mainstream

scientific thought, and can be traced directly to Einstein. The

difference is scientists regard it as theory only. There is much

that science still doesn't know.

Dale Etheridge (Scientist): "There are people who say that our

main problem with that is we don't know what gravity is. It's

this magical force that acts at a distance. We can describe how

it behaves -- that's what the law of gravity is -- it's just a

description of how it behaves, but it says nothing about what

gravity really is."

We'll use Etheridge as our barometer of scientific thought.

He says we cannot produce gravity; that there's no such thing as

a working anti-matter reactor, and that we have yet to figure out

a way to get around the speed of light. He also concedes,

though, such things are possible.

Etheridge: "Yeah. And really we don't know what's possible as

there could be other civilizations out there several hundred

years or so -- a thousand years, even a million years ahead of

us -- that have found a way to circumvent this. We have no way

of knowing for sure."

Lazar: "Well, the thing is when you harness gravity, you harness

everything. It's the missing piece in physics right now. We

really know very little about gravity."

At least that's the way it used to be. Lazar says the

technology to harness gravity not only exists but is being tested

at S-4. And, if such technology is beyond human capabilities, it

must have come from someplace else. It's more than conjecture,

he says, because he also saw an element that cannot be found on

the periodic chart. The element, called 115, can be stored in

lead casings much like this one [showing a lead circular

container]. Lazar says the government has 500 pounds of it, and

it cannot be made on earth.

Lazar: "It would be almost impossible; well, it is impossible to

synthesize an element that heavy here on Earth."

Interviewer: "At least right now."

Lazar: "I don't think that you can ever synthesize it. The

amount of....you essentially have to assemble it by bombarding it

with protons if....atom by atom, it would take an infinite amount

of power and an infinite amount of time. The substance has to

come from a place where super-heavy elements could have been

produced naturally.

And what sort of place is that?

Lazar: "Next to a much larger sun where there would be greater

mass. Maybe a binary star system -- a super-nova -- somewhere

where there is just a bigger release of energy to synthesize

these things naturally. It has to be a naturally occurring

element."

115 is the fuel for the anti-matter reactors, he says. By

bombarding 115 anti-matter is produced. A kilo of anti-matter

could produce the energy equivalent of 46 ten-megaton hydrogen

bombs, and comparing the energy potential of anti-matter to, say,

the Hoover Dam would be like comparing planets to grains of sand.

115 could also make one heck of a bomb.

Lazar: "We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of megatons

off a small piece of it. It sounds incredible, but total

conversion of matter to energy would release that amount of

power. And it isn't that difficult to take....get the energy out

of it. So it's not something you'd ever want to fall anyone's

hands."

The dangers associated with 115 and anti-matter may be the

reason Lazar was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident, he

says, back in April 1987. An accident that was passed off as an

unannounced nuclear test.

Lazar: "Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one

of the people that were to replace these guys."

Is this why the government might be keeping the whole matter

a secret? Because of the military potential of alien technology?

Lazar says he believes the Soviet Union was once part of our

research on the flying disks, but that the U.S. kicked the

Soviets out after making some sort of discovery. He also

believes the program at S-4 is operated with funds allocated to

Star Wars research, but says he can't prove it. Some UFO

researchers suspect the government is test flying alien craft so

that it can one day master the technology and claim it was made

in the good old U.S.A., thus obscuring the possibility of alien

visitations.

Stanton T. Friedman: "I think they have the duty to inform us.

At least to the bare bones of what's going on. I don't want

technological stuff put out on the table. I mean, I worked on

classified projects for 15 years, and I don't think we need

another weapon's delivery system. But I think the government

does have the responsibility to release information that, indeed,

the planet is being visited. Probably it should be done in

conjunction with the Soviets."

Lazar: "I don't think that it will get to that level. They're

not going to have a fleet of them and fly them around and....I

don't think you need to do that. If you're looking at them from

a weapons point of view, you're looking at an incredibly powerful

device. You only need one to operate. You don't ever need to

come public with it. You may want to learn more about it should

it ever break which is....might be what they're doing. Uh...."

Interviewer: "They've got one...."

Lazar: "Oh, they've got a few. Yeah."

Lazar is the first to admit that his story is tough to

swallow. He submitted to polygraph exams that opened up

sensitive parts of his personal life, and fully expects to be

ridiculed or perhaps punished for his revelations. His desire to

explain what really happened at S-4 took us to Layne Keck, a

licensed experienced hypnotherapist who quietly and privately

tried to help Lazar remember details of the many briefing papers

he says he read.

Keck: "I have no clue as to what we were getting to, and he

started saying that there were pictures of what I thought was

desks on the wall. Well as it turned out, it was disks that he

was referring to. And, at that moment, I realized we were into

something that was pretty heavy."

Keck does not exaggerate his claims for hypnosis. He

regards it as a useful tool for uncovering some lost memory. He

says people are quite capable of lying under hypnosis, but says

the technique can be of help in determining truth. What's his

opinion of Lazar's truthfulness?

Keck: "It tells me that his subconscious mind believes totally

all of these things."

Lazar has long suspected that his government employers used

some sort of mind control technique to prevent him from

disclosing too much about S-4. While he says he has vivid

conscious memories of the saucers and other technology there were

other memories, that even now, remained locked, which is why he

sought out Keck in the first place. Keck is convinced that

someone really did mess with Lazar's head.

Keck: "Also they used primitive fear in threatening those in his

environment if he did bring this information forth. Also, it

appears that maybe there were some chemicals used."

Lazar: "Nah, I'm not going to change anyone's mind. That not my

intention. I'm just relaying the experience. The job that I

went through. It is a fantastic thing. It's a fantastic story.

I can't take people there to show them what was going on, and uh,

you know, I don't expect anyone to believe it."

What if he is right? What if aliens are here? How would

this change our view of the world? Our most fundamental beliefs,

which is religion? We'll know more on that tomorrow.

=================================================================

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159/417 21 Nov 89 22:38:00

From: Robert Klinn

To: Bryon Smith

Subj: Re: Area 51: The Nevada Test Site's Supersecret Ufo Base?

Attr:

------------------------------------------------

The time for the KLAS-TV (Channel 8), Las Vegas, report is Saturday, November

25, 1989, 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. The program is titled, "UFOs: The

Evidence." Producer George Knapp says it will include the substance as well as

updates of material recently broadcast as the nine-part series, "UFOs: The

Best Evidence." (Incidentally, each of those nine parts was approximately 15

minutes, not one hour.)

Knapp also says that while he is personally interested in more UFO material

about Area 51, there is no more budget at his station to pursue it. This

contrasts with his on-air statement last week at the end of the ninth segment

of the series, to the effect that the Area 51/S-4/Robert Lazar/recovered alien

vehicles investigation is continuing; also earlier in the series, he had said

that this was only the beginning, that the investigation is "by no means" over.

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166/417 22 Nov 89 19:41:00

From: Robert Klinn

To: All

Subj: Robert Lazar on KVEG-AM

Attr:

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Theoretical physicist Robert Lazar and friend Las Vegas realtor Gene Huff --

in-studio guests on "Billy Goodman's Happening" live talk show, KVEG 840-AM

Radio, 10:00 p.m. 11/21/89 until 1:00 a.m. 11/22/89 -- answered questions for

three hours.

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168/417 22 Nov 89 20:55:00

From: Michael Corbin

To: All

Subj: Update: Area 51

Attr:

------------------------------------------------

CONTRIBUTED BY: Robert B. Klinn, ParaNet Director of

Investigations/Research

========================================================

Theoretical physicist Robert Lazar and his friend, Las Vegas realtor, Gene

Huff -- in-studio guests on "Billy Goodman's Happening" live talk

show, KVEG 840-AM Radio, 10:00 p.m. 11/21/89 until 1:00 a.m.

11/22/89 -- answered questions for three hours.

These notes were compiled from 10:20 p.m., thus missing 20 minutes

(10:00 - 10:20 p.m.) of the three-hour program.

Lazar says he is tired.

1. Lazar's Purpose In Going On-Air:

Although Lazar's main stated purpose in appearing on the broadcast is to

protect himself, caller Bill Cooper says one of Lazar's motives is

anger -- previously expressed privately to Cooper -- that billions of

dollars are needlessly wasted in the normal U.S. sectors by those without

access to this alien technology. Lazar agrees.

Lazar says another reason for his appearing is to correct incorrect

information he had heard on previous broadcasts.

Billy Goodman says Lazar's, Bill Cooper's, and John Lear's lives are on

the line and that Lazar's best protection is the media, which is keeping

Lazar alive.

Lazar hopes "other people out there" working at S-4 will loosen up, come

forward, and join with him to present their information as one, as a

group. He doesn't want to be "the lone ranger."

Congressional amnesty -- suggested by a caller -- would be nice, says

Lazar, but merely offers freedom from prosecution. By coming forward,

he concedes, the other S-4 workers have everything to lose and nothing

to gain.

But Huff says there has to be a moral guideline where national security

has to hang in the balance and that the reporting of the existence of

alien spaceships is where you draw the line.

Caller Bill Cooper says there is "a higher value" that those at S-4

should consider as a reason for coming forward to join Lazar.

But Lazar makes a point of distinguishing his whole view of the UFO

situation from that of John Lear or Bill Cooper.

2. Verification of Lazar's Background:

Lazar says he worked at S-4 -- a "restrained military environment"

in Nevada -- from 12/88 to 4/89.

In response to callers who want independently to check up on Lazar,

he says his "colorful" background has already been checked by George

Knapp of KLAS-TV, who had traveled to Los Alamos Laboratories and

had spoken to former Lazar colleagues, who confirmed he really had

worked there -- in spite of Los Alamos itself denying the fact of

Lazar's employment with them. (Knapp's UFO broadcast displayed a

page from a 1982 Los Alamos Labs internal phone book, listing Robert

Lazar.)

Caller Bill Cooper, who says he has talked to Lazar for over a year,

says that by talking to persons at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory and at

another facility, he and associates have confirmed Lazar's previous

work in physics at the places Lazar specified. Lazar replied he was not

aware of this checking done by Cooper.

Responding to an "investigator" caller wanting Lazar to give him private

info in order to check him out, Lazar says Lazar himself once took a

correspondence course to be a private "investigator."

Lazar says he has 25 people each wanting independently to check him out,

but he will not allow that.

Although Lazar admits he was paid by check, he refuses to discuss anything

about the check stubs.

--- FD 2.00

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169/417 22 Nov 89 20:55:00

From: Michael Corbin

To: Michael Corbin

Subj: Update: Area 51

Attr:

------------------------------------------------

<...Continued from previous message>

3. Lazar's Clearance Level:

He says neither REECO (Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Co., Inc.) nor

EG&G -- each a well-known U.S. Department of Energy Test Site

contractor -- has people at S-4, that those persons' clearances are at

most Q-Clearances, while his own clearance is "38 levels above Q-Clearance."

The closest to S-4 that REECO or EG&G people physically get, he says,

is Area 51.

4. Threats Made to Lazar/Lazar Shot At?

When Goodman refers to Lazar's telling him before the broadcast that

Lazar had been shot at, Lazar says he doesn't want to talk about it.

Lazar says he was called to go back to work but officially refused

because he didn't like the idea of returning to that isolated place

in the desert where they could do what they wanted to him.

However, he says his clearance has not been revoked.

Lazar says the executive powers at S-4 have run amok and there are no

checks and balances. Congress, he says, has no knowledge of all this.

Lazar says there are no lengths to which the military will not go to

conceal this information.

5. Mind Control Suspicions:

He contacted hypnotherapist Layne Keck of Serenus Clinical Hypnosis in

Las Vegas because there were a couple of days where Lazar remembered

only going out in a plane and coming back, but nothing in between.

He suspected mind control had been performed on him.

Lazar purposely selected Serenus because it had nothing to do with UFOs.

[A Las Vegas Yellow Pages ad says:

Serenus Clinical Hypnosis

Helen Baucum

30 years Experience

"Pin-Point" Method

Children Our Specialty

Weight Control, Stuttering, Bed Wetting, Nervous Tensions, Smoking,

Drinking, Memory Retention

384-4420

1833 W. Charleston (across from S. Nevada Memorial Hosp.)]

Under hypnosis, Lazar recalled intense drilling, threatening actions

taken against him, and his drinking of "pine," which his hypnotherapist

said was similar to the "Orion [sp?] Method" of regimented hypnosis used

by the military.

Per Huff, Lazar was given drugs and hypnosis by his employers -- not so

he would forget what he was working on, but so -- by their imprinting

his subconscious -- he would be afraid to talk.

Per Huff, after first telling Lazar his phone was tapped, the military

later threatened him because, having monitored his phone, they knew he

was planning to release information about the alien craft. Huff says

the military were amazed that the drugs and hypnosis had not worked.

Although he is afraid, Lazar hopes they won't come after him now since he

has already talked.

6. Location of the Saucers:

Lazar says the nine saucers are not at the supersecret Area 51

(Groom Lake) of the U.S. government's Nevada Test Site, but at S-4 --

10 miles south of Area 51. The disks are only at this one place.

However, to go to work, Lazar flew (by plane) to Groom Lake, waited a

short time at a cafe, then got on a bus [with blacked-out windows,

per Lazar's Knapp-series statements].

Lazar says he knows someone who drills tunnels at the Test Site, but

no mention is made that this individual also works at S-4.

7. Bad Aliens Killed S-4 Workers:

Lazar says the aliens are not benevolent.

Some humans were killed in a conflict after a U.S. military

intelligence power play, after which point a previously ongoing

information exchange ended.

Huff says Lazar earlier told him -- and Lazar agrees he had said this --

that this exchange of information occurred between the aliens and

human scientists/human security personnel [at S-4?].

But although the aliens had allowed themselves to be under constant

human guard, the aliens had insisted there be no bullets in the guns

worn by the security people. [Bullets may have been a symbol covering

all loaded weapons.]

The security people ignored that demand, and they all died from head

wounds -- which left no evidence of how they had died.

The aliens even killed the scientists they were teaching.

[On Knapp's broadcast last week, Lazar said he was told he was one of

the replacements:

George Knapp:

The dangers associated with 115 [the alien element] and anti-matter may

be the reason Lazar was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident,

he says, back in April 1987, an accident that was passed off as an

unannounced nuclear test.

Robert Lazar:

Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one of the people

that were to replace these guys.]

Responding to a caller, Lazar says talking about aliens is NOT a touchy

subject for him. Aliens exist, he says.

[Lear, in an earlier On the Record KLAS-TV broadcast, says Lazar saw

aliens.]

--- FD 2.00

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170/417 22 Nov 89 20:56:00

From: Michael Corbin

To: Michael Corbin

Subj: Update: Area 51

Attr:

------------------------------------------------

<...Continued from previous message>

8. Time of Saucer Test Flights:

The tests of the saucers at S-4 are Wednesday nights.

Lazar says he was fired because he showed people where and when these

tests were performed.

9. Who Pilots the Test Flights?

Lazar says the experimental UFO flights at S-4 are flown either by

remote control or by human pilots -- not by the aliens.

10. Origin of the Saucers at S-4:

The alien vehicles Lazar saw up close in hangars come from

"another world: "the fourth planet out from Zeta Reticulum II [sp?],

a binary system." [Same as on Betty Hill's map?]

11. Description of the Saucers:

He says he touched one of the nine UFOs and even stood in its doorway.

He says the saucers mostly appeared "like new" -- one of them looking

like the Billy Meier saucer.

[On George Knapp's recent series "UFOs: The Best Evidence" (KLAS-TV,

Las Vegas), Lazar says one of the saucers "looked like it was hit

with some sort of a projectile. It had a large hole in the bottom and

a large hole in the top with the metal bent out like some sort of,

you know, large caliber 4- or 5-inch had gone through it."]

The inside of one craft appears made of wax and then cooled off,

all like a cast or mold of one thing with no rough edges.

Inside were small chairs, one or one and one-half feet, as though

made for little kids.

(Compare with George Knapp's new Roswell witness who said on Knapp's

nine-segment broadcast that a Roswell funeral home worker had told him

the military had purchased all of the "baby or youth caskets" in stock

for the purpose of holding the Roswell aliens.)

12. Nine S-4 Saucers Extraterrestrial -- Not Earthly:

The nine disks he saw up close -- including the one he worked on --

were not earthly and were definitely extraterrestrial.

Lazar can't say whether or not the other disks he saw at a distance

during testing [seen on video presented in George Knapp's broadcasts]

are man-made or extraterrestrial.

13. Physics of the Saucers at S-4:

Lazar says the vehicle attaches itself to a distorted portion of

space-time and returns with the distortion. It's a new physics.

The vehicles brought a space-time warp with them.

Lazar says the propulsion technology should properly remain

classified, since everything there is looked at from a weapons

point of view. A lot is directly applicable to weapons systems, and he

has no intention of releasing it, he says.

But he says the craft uses gravity as a lens and the power source is

an anti-matter reactor.

Two Modes of Travel for Saucers at S-4:

1) When traveling around the surface of the planet, the vehicles balance

on a gravity wave or ride a wave like a cork on the ocean. In this

mode they are unstable and are affected by the weather.

2) For space travel, they use gravity generators. But if they fly

around the surface of Earth using this mode, they may flip over, a

phenomenon Lazar says has frequently been observed in past sightings

in the published UFO literature.

Two gravities: A & B.

Gravity A works on an atomic scale whose interaction is small and has

to do with fuel -- the alien Element 115 used for the disks.

Gravity B works on a macro scale.

The gravitational field is OUT OF PHASE with [unknown ?] and is like

a wave generator. It is LONGITUDINAL generation -- not spherical, as

a caller suggested.

14. Project Aurora:

"Aurora," says Lazar, distinguishing it from any UFOs, is the

replacement for the SR-71 plane. It uses a three-mile runway and

makes a sound like continuous explosions. It has speeds up to Mach 10.

15. No Alien Cattle Mutilations?

As far as HE knows, Lazar says, there is no alien UFO tie-in with

cattle mutilations.

16. Few Abductees?

More persons claim to be abductees than have actually been abducted,

suggests Lazar.

17. No Blue Diamond Entry Way for Saucers:

Notwithstanding UFO watchers congregating at Blue Diamond, Lazar says

there is only a gravity anomaly around Blue Diamond, not an entry way

for saucers into our universe.

18. Other Physics Comments By Lazar:

Time travel:

GRAVITY affects time. Moving FORWARD in time is "a breeze": All you

need do is get close to a gravitational field.

Moving back in time MIGHT also be possible.

Some physicists today, says Lazar, invoke superstring theories to simply

add another dimension to the universe whenever they can't explain something.

Referring to laser fusion experiments as "stupid," Lazar refers to a

location where they have been conducted.

Lazar also speaks of a process of squeezing plutonium.

In response to a caller's question, Lazar says M-42 is a galaxy.

19. Lazar says George Knapp's two-hour program on KLAS-TV,

Channel 8 in Las Vegas, this Saturday, 11/25/89, 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m.,

will contain "much more information" than Knapp's recent nine-part,

two-hour UFO broadcasts last week.

=================================================================

This is contained in a file called 1122LACO.UFO in the Library.

--- FD 2.00

* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)

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181/417 24 Nov 89 21:29:41

From: Cyro Lord

To: All

Subj: Antimatter Drives and Area 51

Attr:

------------------------------------------------

From: cyrill@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Cyro Lord)

Date: 24 Nov 89 20:44:28 GMT

Organization: ALPHA Comm. Dev. Corp., Aurora, Co.

Message-ID: <2261@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM>

Newsgroups: info.paranet

>From: macleod@drivax.UUCP (MacLeod)

In article <265@oasis.mrcu> paj@mrcu (Paul Johnson) writes:

:A couple of months ago I read Robert Forward's book "Mirror Matter" in

:which he suggests that the practical use of antimatter is now

:possible. Are his ideas impractical? If not, what is being done

:about them?

Glad you asked about antimatter.

According to a series of reports on two Las Vegas television stations

(there is a two-hour special coming on 11-25 for those in the LV area)

one Robert Lazar, formerly employed by the government at the mysterious

Area 51, says that the US government has 500 pounds of element 115,

which somehow produces antimatter when irradiated.

This fuel is used to drive waveguide-type gravity amplifiers which

are the FTL drive components of nine alien spacecraft stored in hangars

out at Area 51 (the supersecret testing grounds also known as "Dreamland"

in the middle of the Nellis AFB bombing range about 65 miles northeast of

Las Vegas). From his brief description of how the drives operate, they

seem to create local black-hole strength gravity gradients which slow down

time and cause a space-fold quickly traversible by the spacecraft.

Lazar says he was hired to continue covert research into these spacecraft

and their engineering infrastructure after a former team of scientists

had screwed the pooch with a batch of element 115, forcing the AEC to

hurridly announce an "unscheduled" atomic test at Dreamland.

Don't flame me, call KLAS-TV in Vegas if you're curious. They will be

selling copies of the 2-hour special, due to the outpouring of interest

in it - stimulated by word of mouth and news propagated by ParaNet.

For some odd reason the national media have not paid any attention...

You can also get on the ParaNet mailing list by sending a note to:

scicom!infopara

Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod)

(This article is from the 'misc.headlines' newsgroup of USENET. If this

is a repost, please excuse the repost. -Cyro)

<---------------------------++++++++++++++++++----------------------------->

Cyro Lord Alpha Comm. Dev. Corp. - DOMAIN cyrill@scicom.alphacdc.com

UUCP {ncar,nbires,boulder,isis}!scicom!cyrill

Corn can't expect Justice from a court of chickens. (African Proverb)

--- ConfMail V4.00

* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)

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191/417 25 Nov 89 22:25:00

From: Don Allen

To: Jim Speiser

Subj: Re: Newest Release..

Attr:

------------------------------------------------

Jim- ....Great approach, Don! I wish more people would do that. But when you

hand it out.. @ YES I DID! I did mention that it was unconfirmed. I may have

an open mind,but it ain't so open that my brains fall out! Fact is,one of

the people that I handed the releases to is a Naval Commander (reservist). He

was real interested,but didn't say much. I was particularly amused when he

asked that if anything else came out that he would like to see it.. Jim-

WHERE'S DA BEEF???? ....... VERY good question Jim....The LEFT side of my

brain is asking the same thing,however the RIGHT side is leaning heavily

towards considering it as more than true. Lazar's claims sure *seem* more than

credible... Sounds confusing,I know..but I keep the balance by continuing to

look for the "outpoints" of Lazar's story..things I'm mulling over:

Release-

"In response to callers who want independently to check up on Lazar,

he says his "colorful" background has already been checked by George

Knapp of KLAS-TV, who had traveled to Los Alamos Laboratories and

had spoken to former Lazar colleagues, who confirmed he really had

worked there -- in spite of Los Alamos itself denying the fact of

Lazar's employment with them. (Knapp's UFO broadcast displayed a

page from a 1982 Los Alamos Labs internal phone book, listing Robert

Lazar.)

@ Thats SOUNDS plausible..but how do we actually *know* that Knapp

checked up on him? Is there any documentation that Knapp can actually

SHOW (read-> Hard copy) that Lazar has worked the places he's claimed

to?

Release-

Caller Bill Cooper, who says he has talked to Lazar for over a year,

says that by talking to persons at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory and at another

facility, he and associates have confirmed Lazar's previous

work in physics at the places Lazar specified. Lazar replied he was not

aware of this checking done by Cooper.

@ Which Bill Cooper is this? Is this THE Bill Cooper who was (to put it

politely) kicked off Paranet for leaving inflammatory statements to

others? And if so,what credibility do we (users,Paranet) assign to

him? Are HIS "facts" checkable? Have they been in the past?

Release-

Lazar says he has 25 people each wanting independently to check him out, but

he will not allow that.

@ I can understand that. But how about a panel of 5 reputable people?

Certainly Dr Stanton Friedman should be one of the panel..

Release-

He says neither REECO (Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Co., Inc.) nor EG&G

-- each a well-known U.S. Department of Energy Test Site

contractor -- has people at S-4, that those persons' clearances are at

most Q-Clearances, while his own clearance is "38 levels above Q-Clearance."

The closest to S-4 that REECO or EG&G people physically...

@ Whew..How is anyone supposed to verify that? Maybe,just maybe the others that

worked with Lazar will come forth and support his story.

--- QuickBBS v2.04

* Origin: Gallifrey - ParaNet Nu(sm) - Orlando, Florida (407)273-9104

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194/417 26 Nov 89 15:07:00

From: Michael Corbin

To: John H. Chalmers Jr.

Subj: 115,Etc.

Attr:

------------------------------------------------

> (2) Element 115: I don't know any reason why 115

> would be useful in creating

> an antigravity field or creating antimattter, except

> possibly as an energy

> source in some sort of fission reactor. There is a

> predicted quantum mechanical

> "Island of Stability" around atomic numbers 112-116, but

> more recent

> calculations suggest that none of these elements would be

> stable enough to be

> isolated in macroscopic amounts. In contrast, only a few

> years ago some

> physicists thought that these elements might have half-

> lives in the millions or

> billions of years.

Thank you for bringing this up. I was hoping that some of our physics readers

would jump on this. Could you go further into the explanation about the

instability of the elements between 112 and 116? Furthermore, Lazar claims

that the vessel uses that in combination with a wave guide which, in his

diagram, is shown protruding from the top part of the reactor and protracting

to the top of the vessel with an antenna of a sort where it terminates. At the

bottom of the vessel is where the gravity amplifier is located.

Also, what are tachyons and how could they figure into this scenario. Is it

true that gravity could travel twice the speed of light?

> Antimatter is made today in small amounts; beams of

> positrons and antiprotons

> are used in particle accelerators. Neutral anti-hydrogen

> (positrons orbiting

> antiprotons) would be hard to store, but certainly

> synthesizable. It would be a

> great power source when it mutually annihilated with normal

> matter.

How could this work in propulsion?

Based upon what has been said thus far by Lazar, could you comment on your

feelings about his credibility as a physicist and his theories regarding the

overall implication of this.

Thanks for your time and contribution to this discussion.

Michael Corbin

--- FD 2.00

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198/417 27 Nov 89 04:28:00

From: Robert Klinn

To: All

Subj: S-4 Worker Backs Up Lazar's Claims

Attr:

------------------------------------------------

Six "Scared-To-Death" S-4 Workers Reportedly Meet Outside the Nevada Test Site

at Lathrop Wells to Unite and Join Lazar's Expose of Alien Saucers

On KVEG-AM Radio in Las Vegas, on The Billy Goodman Happening, 11/24/89, 10:00

p.m. to 1:00 a.m., with Robert Lazar on the line, another caller introduces

himself as "a colleague in Lazar's department."

Calling himself "MW" for Mercury Worker [Mercury is the military town inside

the Test Site], he distinguishes his work -- "hands-on" -- from Lazar's. MW

says he is a construction worker, installing and constructing.

He says he and others like him work in S-4 -- especially underground -- in deep

sections.

"We all know a lot."

"Someone had to install the hangars."

"There is more than tunnels -- everything you can imagine -- cause we did

everything."

He says people are now meeting in small groups to talk about backing up Lazar.

There was a meeting of six workers the night of 11/24/89, he says, to discuss

whether or not they should publicly say what they saw.

The five others are scared to death, he says. He himself sounds scared on the

telephone.

They are trying to get it where it will be safe for them to join Lazar, he

says.

The MW's are "putting something together to join you."

There are two more MW workers supporting you, he says.

"We got together at Lathrop Wells [a small town close to the southwest end of

the Nevada Test Site] and said we got to do something."

"Only two out of the six are willing to do something."

"The guys are for you."

Although encouraged, Lazar points out there's a ten-year jail term for them if

they talk.

--- QuickBBS v2.04

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228/417 28 Nov 89 19:19:44

From: John H. Chalmers Jr.

To: All

Subj: Reply to Mike Corbin

Attr:

------------------------------------------------

From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.)

Date: 28 Nov 89 02:47:24 GMT

Message-ID: <1510@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>

Newsgroups: info.paranet

Mike: Based on what I have read on ParaNet, I can't take Lazar's physics very

seriously. I suspect that a professional physicist would feel that I am

understating the situation. I'm a biologist, not a quantum mechanic so most of

what I know is from secondary sources like textbooks, Scientific American, New

Scientist, The Sciences, or Stephen Hawking's recent best seller. Physics

isn't

my specialty, but I'll try to answer your questions.

Now if somebody were to offer me a piece of purported alien tissue or a

culture

of an ET microbe, I think I'd know how to authenticate it or how to find people

who could.

Elements decay by three principal routes, alpha emission, spontaneous

fission

and beta decay. The three controlling forces, the Electromagnetic,the Strong

Nuclear and the Weak Nuclear, are well understood with theory agreeing with

experiment to nine or ten decimal places in many cases. The computational

magnitude of systems as complex as heavy elements precludes exact calculations

even on supercomputers, but the best approximations suggest that elements of

atomic number around 114 are more stable than any nearby because the nucleons

(protons and neutrons) form closed or nearly closed shells. This phenomenon is

analogous to the chemical inertness of helium, neon and argon because their

electrons form closed shells (outside the nucleus) and there is little tendency

to arrange them in other configurations so that they could form bonds to other

atoms and make compounds.

However, this stability is not absolute and atoms decay spontaneously

with

half-lives (the time for 50% to change) ranging from more than 10 to the 33

years for Hydrogen to about 10-23 seconds for some extremely short lived

isotopes decaying by the Strong Force. Elements with half lives of weeks or

months can be isolated in weighable amounts though doing so is difficult and

dangerous, but isotopes with shorter half-lives can only be identified by

their

radioactive decay products. Only a few atoms of Element 109 have been made so

far, but the energies of the alpha particles emitted along its decay chain made

identification unambiguous. It's half-life is somewhere between a millisecond

and a microsecond.

Elements 110 and 111 are expected to be even less stable, so experimenters hope

to jump into the Stability region where half-lives are calculated to be longer.

Longer might mean 10-6 seconds or it might mean minutes or seconds. I don't

know what the latest predictions are.

The only way we have to make such heavy nuclei is accelerate atoms of

medium

weight elements such as calcium, carbon, etc. and smash them into heavy atoms

such as uranium. It takes a lot of energy to overcome the electromagnetic

repulsion to get the nuclei close enough so that the very short range (10-13

cm)

Strong Force can bind the compound nucleus together. If the atoms have too

little energy, they won't fuse, but if they have too much, they won't stay

together. The new nucleus is only marginally stable at best and will fission

if it has too much energy. Another problem is that the new nucleus may not

have

enough neutrons to be stable. If so, it will undergo beta decay as well.

If any elements around 114 or higher can be made they will be

important

confirmation of the standard model. They will also have interesting chemistry

since they will have more electrons than any know elements and some of these

electrons will be in g orbitals with somewhat different properties from those

d and f orbitals.

Tachyons are hypothetical particles with negative or imaginary rest

mass and

always travel faster than light. They have never been observed and no one knows

how to search for them. Since they travel faster than light, their

interactions

with normal matter would conflict with relativity. Gregory Benford, a

physicist

and award winning SF author, has written a serious paper about a "Tachyonic

Anti-Telephone" which would allow one to place a call to the past. Needless

say, this would violate causality as we understand it.

Invoking tachyons to explain some unknown effect is committing the

fallacy

known as "Ignotus per ignotum," using one unknown to explain another. If and

when tachyons are discovered, and assuming they have the requisite properties,

then they may be used to explain unusual events.

Now to antimatter: I didn't mean to imply that particle accelerators

bombard

anti-protons with positrons. High energy electrons collide with positrons and

protons with antiprotons to produce exotic particles such as the W and Z mesons

(the field quanta of the weak force).

if anti-Hydrogen and normal Hydrogen come into contact, the positrons

and the

electrons will mutually annihilate to generate two gamma rays of .51 Mev. The

antiprotons and protons of the nuclei will also annihilate, but they do so in a

more complex fashion which produces a lot of intermediate particles. The end

result is the conversion of the mass of both the normal and the anti-matter to

energy according to Einstein's equation, E= mc2 (E=energy, m=totalmass, c=speed

of light).

The resulting gamma rays could be reflected off a heavy shield and used

for

propulsion as a high energy photonic drive. Such as system seems to be the

only

feasible energy source for interstellar flight according to the articles I've

seen.

Small amounts of antimatter could be made if anybody wanted to. For

powering

interstellar spacecraft travelling at relativistic velocities, thousands or

millions of tons will be required, alas.

The energy released in ordinary fusion or fission reactions is only a

small

fraction of this energy and comes from the binding energies of the nuclei:

fission and fusion are the nuclear analogs of fermentation, while

matter-antimatter annihilation is analogous to terminal oxidation. The nuclear

energies are about a million times larger than the chemical energies, however,

and this is why terrestrial organisms don't/can't use nuclear power in their

metabolism.

The yet undiscovered field particle of the gravitational force, the

fourth of

the known forces, is the graviton. It would travel at the speed of light. I

don't know of any justification for the notion that gravitational effects

propagate at 2*c.

Although gravitational radiation has not been observed directly,

certain binary

star systems are losing energy at the rate calculated for gravitational

radiation, so physicists are reasonable confident about the standard model.

Gravitational radiation antennas with sufficient sensitivity are being

constructed, so direct observation could occur soon.

Wave guides are conductive tubes which direct electromagnetic waves

(radio

waves, light, etc). I have no idea if a gravitational wave guide or amplifier

even theoretically possible. The people to ask are gravitational theorists

such

as Kip Thorne, John Archibald Wheeler or Robert Forward (who also writes SF).

Forward has designed some hypothetical anti-gravity devices based on

standard

physics. One involves passing the mass of a neutron star though a toroidal

coil

the size of a football field in a millisecond to neutralize the earth's gravity

field in the center by generating the gravitational analog of the magnetic

field. The other methods are even less practical.

The problem is that gravity is 10 +43 times weaker than the Strong

Force and

thus hard to study in the laboratory. One wishes to manipulate masses of at

least planetary size. Also, the gravitational field is always attractive and a

function of the geometry of space-time

i hope all of this wordage answers your questions. These are

fascinating areas

and one can go on and on.

--John

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251/417 29 Nov 89 18:45:28

From: Usenet News

To: All

Subj: Lazar and his Amazing Saucers

Attr:

------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 Nov 89 20:47:15 GMT

Message-ID: <1519@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>

Newsgroups: info.paranet

Hello, paranet friends,

I have been reading the newsletter from paranet for some time now.

This is my first posting.

+I just had an interesting thought...if you had been sitting on the secret

+of S-4 and dreamland for a long while, and had instructions to release the

+information to the public only if it would not cause a crisis, what better

+time to stage-leak the real story, as most of Eastern Europe and the Soviet

+Union call off the cold war? Perhaps what Reagan was telling Gorbachev

+in their summit conferences is that we'll all hang separately if we don't

+hang together.

+More paranoia from,

+Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod)

Regarding Lazar, I just wonder about the fact that we are on the eve

of a summit of great significance to the entire world. As much as

we would all like to believe this intriguing tale (since so many

questions would be answered), I have to think that our government

has a powerful motivation at the moment for promoting this kind of

idea.

Given the credulity of Soviets on this subject, how likely is it

that the Soviet intelligence community is going crazy right now

trying to verify this story before the summit? Is this all

designed to throw Gorbachev off balance?

If our government tried to announce such a thing (supposing it is

false) they would be innundated with requests for demonstrations

and explanations, which would ruin the ruse. But the region where

these events are alleged to have occurred would be under constant

scrutiny by Soviet agents, given the history of the area. The

agents assigned to the area probably observed the news programs

with great interest.

Then there is the involvement of Cooper. Readers will have to judge

for themselves the significance of this.

Here is my scenario:

Lazar works for some intelligence outfit. His background was wiped

out (ineffectively) in the hopes that the attempt to erase his

history would give credibility to his story. Others that come

forward are part of the same effort. Some are actual believers

who have been convinced by the thoroughness of the deception.

The information is released in controlled packets, perhaps some

intelligence leaks were provided directly to Soviet agents to

prepare them to be receptive when the television program came on.

It all is building up so that the climax of the scam occurs just

before the summit. The result is that Gorbachev is off balance

and Bush has the advantage.

I think this is much more likely than the possibility that what

Lazar says is true, for these reasons:

1) If this project were so top secret as Lazar says, he would

never have appeared on that program. Lazar said they knew

he was going to leak in advance. If that were true he

would have been dead. They would not wait until now to

take sniper shots at him, and if they did, they wouldn't

miss.

2) Bill Cooper has discredited himself, and he appears to be

involved.

3) After reading on the subject, I am inclined to believe that

the spiritual/supernatural/extradimensional aspect is the

most significant. I could go into this, but let me just

say that I too have been reading Dimensions, and the ideas

presented there make more sense than anything else I have seen

on the subject. This story does not fit the scenario.

Instead it fits into a neat materialistic mold which would

allow the military to control the phenomena by purely

physical means. This does not mean it is necessarily bogus,

it just makes me suspicious. It is too neat; too easy and pat.

4) The gov't has a history of "leaking" bogus UFO stories.

5) They are motivated to try to maintain the upper hand by the

significance of this summit, in light of political developments.

This whole thing may have been generated directly in response

to developments in Eastern Europe.

6) The whole thing may be relatively unimportant to our intelligence

community - just another little game to try to keep the other

guys confused, and good practice at generating disinformation.

Sorry, it's just too bizarre to believe without tons of corroboration

from many independent sources.

Cheers,

--Steve

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

{uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM

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257/417 01 Dec 89 02:31:53