Hangar 18

 HANGER18.THD 

    Summary: this file is a thread from the Fido computer network UFO 

Echo, early 1989, about Hanger 18 at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. 

It has long been rumored that a UFO was stored there at some time. 

This file consists of messages, edited for relevance, that say that 

the UFO is no longer there, if it ever was. 

    There is also a description of another wreck that was brought in 

to the Great Lakes Naval Base. Also, another one collected by the 

Army and stored temporarily in a firehouse.

    File length just over four typed pages. 

    An additional source for this subject is "The Roswell Incident"

by Bill Moore and Charles Berlitz.

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From:    John Frey  To:      Steven Northover   15-Jan-89

    I know that Aquarius exists. A close relative of mine was

stationed at Great Lakes Naval Base when they brought in under VERY

HEAVY security a crashed UFO that was supposedly shot down by a

aircraft carrier back in the early '50s.

    Also I have another relative that worked at Wright Patterson who

said "I've seen some strange business that I can't talk about", when

I asked about the rumors the UFO's stored there.

* Origin: Astral Board  (1:129/39.0)  1(412)8246566

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From:    John Frey To:Kevin Colquitt  29-Jan-89 

    My aunt used to work at Wright-Pat. but they live far away in 

Indiana now so I don't get to talk to her as much as I would like. 

Anyway she heard many stories about strange experiments being carried 

out by scientists there.

* Origin: Astral Board * Home of UFO echo * (1:129/39.0)

====

From: John Frey To: Joe Holland  22-Jan-89 

    Well,I don't know any major details about it other than what I 

told except that it was structually damaged badly and they picked up 

alot of wreckage. I don't know why they shot it or if there were any 

bodies but I do know that my relative was asigned to moving some of 

the material into a building late at night under TIGHT security. They 

made him go through a metal detector before he left.

* Origin: Astral Board * Home of UFO echo * (1:129/39.0)

====

From: Dick Copits   To: John Frey  20-Jan-89

    I lived in Dayton and worked at Wright-Pat in fairborn for years

and although there were lots of rumors about UFO's, no one ever saw

anything dealing with them. I have been in EVERY building and hangar

on that base, and believe me, there ain't no such animal. You now

have an authoratative source that says - wherever they is, they

ain't at Wright-Pat.!!!

* Origin: (c)1988 Rogers & Blake (508)373-2204 (1:324/120)

====

From: John Frey  To:Dick Copits  23-Jan-89

    Hangar 18 exists! Notice I did not say there was a UFO in it. It

would be stupid to keep it in the same place long.

    A UFO that crashed in PA was taken by a lot of people from the 

Army back in the 50's. It was in the newspaper and a local reporter 

researched it and found that it was taken by a Cleveland, OH group. 

The TV reporter was unable to find any members of the group (since it 

broke up in the late '50s) but did find a eyewitness of the recovery 

operation that was a volunteer fireman. All the wreckage was hauled 

from the crash site to the firehouse and later moved out with the 

army. The reporter is very credible and so is the eyewitness.

* Origin: Astral Board * Home of UFO echo * (1:129/39.0)

====

From Joe Holland to Dick Copits 1/25/89

    On what date did you first get into Hanger 18? Recently, or some

long time ago? Here below, for comparison, are three messages sent in

to Paranet Alpha AZ last April. After posting these, George Ray never

came on again with the follow up he was expecting to get.

    Also, I have documentation that Senator Goldwater was denied

access to Hanger 18. (This item is corrected further on in this

file). And you got in easily, with no instructions  about secrecy?

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Paranet messages:

Msg: #7816  01-APR-88  From: George Ray  To: Jim Delton

    Jim why dont you go to Wright-Pat. AFB in ILL. (see later

correction) and see if you can get inside of the large black hanger

at the back of the base, after you  have seen the inside of it then

come tell me the A.F. doesn't believe in UFOs.

====

Msg: #7837  01-APR-88  From: George Ray  To: Nick Ianuzzi

    The entire time that I was in the Air Force (over 12 years) I

only  knew one person who had actually been inside that structure.

That was because he worked there. It seems that the government did

not like the job that the Security Police (AF COPS) were doing so the

control of this hanger and surrounding buildings was placed into the

hands of the N.S.A. and the Federal Police Agency (supposedly a

branch of the  U.S. Marshall's Office, Under the Dept. of Justice).

Anyway prior to the security exchange this person had to do an

inventory. He said that the items that were in those buildings

could not be beleived. He told me some of what he had seen but the

time I just blew it off. This was almost ten years ago, I will try

to get hold of him this weekend to see if he will restate for me

just what he saw and I will give you a full report when I get it

onto a disk and upload it. Hopefully that should be done by Wed at

the outside.

====

Msg: #7839  01-APR-88 From: George Ray  To: Jim Delton

    Jim, I left an earlier message in regards to this. But I can tell

you  this while stationed at an Alert Site in Alaska, we scrambled

more than once on objects that were not aircraft, the pilots would

not tell us what they saw, yet after every time this happened all

aircrews involved were immediately rotated back to the home station.

Even when they would wind up back out there with us they would not

tell us what they had seen. I know that this happened four times

while I was stationed there and I could not tell you how many times

total that it has happened. I just have to accept that they saw

something that was not of standard aircraft design and until they are

allowed to come forward with  eye-witness reports, it will continue

to be a rumor generating mill.

(End Paranet messages of April 1, 1988. Fido thread resumes here)

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From:    Dick Copits  To:      Joe Holland  30-Jan-89

    Joe - First, and I think symptomatic of the messages - Wright

Patterson AFB is NOT in Ill!!! It's in Fairborne Ohio, a short

distance from Dayton. It's also the home of the Air Force Logistics

Center, a SAC refueling wing and the home of the analysis section for

spacecraft observation photos.

    Hangar 18 is very visible from Harshman road, generally has (and

always had) the doors open so that you can see in it with a good pair

of binoculars, and is painted (at least since 1946) grey! When you go

to the Air Force Museum, look past the xb-70 and there it is. No

guards, No searchlights, No barbed wire, and in fact if you come in

from the third street gate you can almost drive right up to it. Joe -

this is a MYSTIQUE that has been propagated by people such as your

friend who maybe even visited WP (even though it's never been in

Ill...).

    In fact, take a weekend and fly into Dayton and drive over there

and see for yourself. It's an open base, and unless you screw around

the SAC planes you can pretty much move around and take pictures at

will. How long ago am I talking about? Last year. When was I there?

During the 60-70 era. My brother is still working there, has for the

last 29 years, and knows everyone who is anyone on the base. Believe

me, there's no UFO there, no parts there, and nothing else. Comments?

* Origin: (c)1988 Rogers & Blake (508)373-2204 (1:324/120)

====

From:  Dick Copits  To: Joe Holland   30-Jan-89

     Joe - why do you think those messages have the dates they do?

April 1 !!!

* Origin: (c)1988 Rogers & Blake (508)373-2204 (1:324/120)

====

From Joe Holland to Dick Copits 2/3/89

    Now, if we can take this apart somewhat, maybe we can study the

anatomy of a myth, or else find out why this information is

contradictory. Well, OK, I am accepting your description that hanger

18 is  accessible.

    >How long ago am I talking about? Last year. When was I there?

During  the 60-70 era. My brother is still working there, has for the

last 29  years<

    The remaining question then would be the dates. Its a long time,

42 years, back to 1947 when the UFO crashed in New Mexico. There

might also be a question about which building it is.

    The Goldwater letter, which I will post separately, is dated

1979, and refers to an earlier time. Someone should find out from

him, how much earlier. But what I missed before is that the letter

does not say hanger 18, but rather "a facility at Wright Patterson".

This letter appears on page 41 of the Nov 88 issue of UFO Universe.

    But an introduction on page 3 has already assumed that this is

Hanger 18. Also in this introduction, Senator Goldwater is quoted in

another quotation, but this again does not say Hanger 18, but "in the

building where the information is stored".  Note the word is not "the

UFO" but "the information". The magazine appears not to have strictly

conformed in the text, to the evidence that it presented.

    The April 1 letter from George Ray refers to a time "almost ten

years" earlier. This is in conflict with what I assume you said in

your message, quoted above, about 29 years. Since you are on the

scene, I give my credence to you. George Ray was quoting second

hand, and might have never been to Wright-Patterson, or so it might

seem from having gotten the location wrong.

    I noticed the April 1st date, and regarded it with suspicion,

when I first re-ran the message into Paranet last year. But I missed

the wrong location of Wright-Patterson, so I'm glad I  chose to

repeat all three messages this time, instead of just one.

*Source: Third World, Chatsworth CA 1(818)7009591

====

From Joe Holland to All  2/3/89

    Here is one of the letters from Senator Barry Goldwater about

Wright-Patterson:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

                                  United States Senate

                             Commitee on Commerce, Science,

                                   and Transportation

                                   Washington DC  20510

April 11, 1979

Mr. Lee M Graham

526 West Maple

Monrovia, California  91016

Dear Mr. Graham:

It is true I was denied access to a faclity at

Wright-Patterson.  Because I never got in, I can't

tell you what was inside.  We both know about the

rumors.

Apart from that, let me make my position clear: I

do not beleive that we are the only planet, and of

some two billion that exist, that has life on it. I

have never seen what I would call a UFO, but I have

intelligent friends who have, so I can sort of argue

either way.

Sincerely,

(Signature)

Barry Goldwater.

---------------------------

Source: UFO Universe (magazine) Nov 88 page 41

        See also page 3.

        351 W. 54th ST. NY, NY  10012.

====

From Joe Holland to Dick Copits   2/3/89

     Wright Patterson is plainly marked on my AAA Road Atlas as on

the  east side of Dayton, Ohio. Everything should be so easy to

check! I  had meant to look it up, but it never occured to me someone

would  miss on a thing like that.  Well, I'm the one who goes around

reminding people that things may be easier to check than you think,

and trying to get people to do it.

    If that story is true about the crashed disk, then the disk went

somewhere. Why they would move it a long distance would be a

question, although there could be a number of reasons.  If the

expertise for rebuilding craft existed back then at Wright-Patterson,

as it does now, then that's a possible answer. Also, you say they

look at the space photos there.

    However, it would have soon become evident, from your

description, that Wright-Patterson was not a highest security area,

so it would have been reasonable to move it.

-------------------

File prepared by Joe Holland, 2/23/89.