Questions about PROTECTION part two

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Path: ns-mx!uunet!infonode!hychejw
From: hychejw@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff W. Hyche)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INFO: Application To Join C.A.U.S.
Keywords: Follow-ups to alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <1991Jun21.194944.1584@infonode.ingr.com>
Date: 21 Jun 91 19:49:44 GMT
References: <1991Jun17.190337.15400@bilver.uucp> <1991Jun19.133125.29564@bilver.uucp> <1991Jun20.142939.388@cbfsb.att.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Lines: 29

marz@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.zam) writes:

>> -* Don Allen *-  InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP  // Amiga..for the rest of us.
>> USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^)
>> UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona      0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
>> Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order"


First of all, nice computer.


>Don,

>I for one look forward to such information being made available to me.
>Please stand your ground with people like this, and help the rest of us
>broaden our personal horizons.  Just because this guy doesn't have an
>open mind, and is therefore NOT the sort to join any sort of organization
>like the one you mentioned, doesn't mean that the rest of us are not
>interested.  I applaud your original effort and your public reply.

> Keep em coming Don,

Agree.  I've collected all of Dons postings sence I fell into
this newsgroup.  I don't all ways agree with what they are saying but I
do enjoy reading them and they do make me think.  Keep em coming.
--
                                  // Jeff Hyche         
    There can be only one!    \\ //  Usenet: hychejw@infonode.ingr.com
                               \X/   Freenet: ap255@po.CWRU.Edu
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!cornell!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!wt0b+
From: wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Questions about PROTECTION
Message-ID: <ocMaRqm00WAwI1FlZy@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: 21 Jun 91 20:54:14 GMT
References: <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov>
Distribution: na
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 10
In-Reply-To: <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov>

This board is always a good pick me up.

Whenever I feel ground down by life, outclassed by everyone around me,
all I have to do is look in hear...


and laugh, laugh, laugh.

-Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!littlei!intelhf!agora!robart
From: robart@agora.rain.com (Barton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism.d,misc.headlines,alt.stupidity
Subject: Advertising (was: Re: INFO: Application To Join C.A.U.S.)
Summary: misuse
Keywords: Don, Allen
Message-ID: <1991Jun22.090530.8469@agora.rain.com>
Date: 22 Jun 91 09:05:30 GMT
Sender: robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton)
Organization: Agora
Lines: 60
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1013 alt.paranormal:1938 alt.conspiracy:6132 alt.activism.d:1049 misc.headlines:16805 alt.stupidity:2293


  [ talk.religion.newage and misc.misc removed from Newsgroups line since
    they were inappropriate ]

In article <1991Jun19.133125.29564@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:
>In article <1991Jun18.132817.16937@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton) writes:
>>
>>  [ subscription advertisement from Don Allen deleted ]
>>
>>  Why are you posting these commercial advertisements?

>The posting is for --->> INFORMATIONAL PUPOSES [sic] ONLY <<---

  If you're only trying to obtain information such as someone's name, address,
phone number, etc, then why ask for money?

>Since you have taken it upon *YOURSELF* to be the resident NET POLICE
>then you might as well understand that I certainly will NOT be intimidated
>by witless ASSHOLES such as yourself.

  You no doubt have great experience with such people, having lived with one
your entire life.

>You can either slink back into you HOLE or under your ROCK or put my NAME
>in your KILL FILE.
>Either way, I will NOT be affected at ALL by your comments..

  Does this mean that you won't be sending me numerous copies of those large,
worthless files from somebody's BBS, like you did last time?

>IF you have anything at all to say, then say it here in PUBLIC instead of
>resorting to your *usual* snide comments to me in email.

  Obviously what I said (<1991Jun18.132817.16937@agora.rain.com>) was public;
otherwise you wouldn't be able to quote my public message, as you did above.

>IF I have "offended" anyone's sense of what is "politically correct" then
>I do hereby apologize PUBLICALLY [sic].

  Obviously it had nothing to do with any political views, but with misuse of
discussion groups for commercial purposes.

>ARF or Ralph Winston or Jim Sanders I'm not.

  No, but you are Don Allen.

>The LAST time I looked, FREE SPEECH is still available in this country
>and you NET POLICE can go FRIG YOURSELVES SILLY.

  You are confusing disagreement with censorship.  This is a common error.
Hopefully you will outgrow it.

>IF I have done _anything_ "wrong" then let a NET SYSADMIN leave me email and
>I will abide by his comments...otherwise you NET POLICE can shut the F**k up.

  Nets and systems are two different things.

>_END OF DIATRIBE_

  [ long signature deleted ]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!slxsys!ibmpcug!demon!news
From: printf@cix.compulink.co.uk (Ian Stirling)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MARS FACE
Message-ID: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk>
Date: 23 Jun 91 01:42:50 GMT
Sender: news@demon.co.uk (C-News Owner)
Reply-To: Ian Stirling <printf@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Organization: Gated to News by demon.co.uk
Lines: 42

>For one thing, assuming this potential race is somewhat similar in
>intelligence to us (for the sake of argument!), why would they have
>allowed themselves to become extinct...indeed how would they have
>known about their impending destruction? Either way, this is all
>speculation, and I believe if an extraterrestrial race of even mild
>intelligence wanted to leave us a message of ANY sort, I believe they
>would do it in a way that would leave no doubt about their existence.
>Could you imagine the time and expense they would have to endure
>whilst making this so-called "face"? And then when we do find this
>"Face" we don't quite know what to make of it! It's far to complex a
>medium of communication to use. Why wouldn't they leave something a
>little more profound, like maybe a model of a human skeleton,
>complete with very visible structures. (ie structures that can be
>seen from ANY direction). This is just too much imporbability for me,
>I think we must just wait and see if anything else comes along which
>offers a little more proof.
>
>Later, Max.
>
>_____________________________________________________________________________-

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Or maybe something simple,like a radio message on many frequencys
going off every hundred years.
Mail to either                            |PLEASE do not send large
Printf%cix@ukc.ac.uk                      |(>20K)mail messages as
Printf@cix.compulink.co                   |I get charged for them.
Printf@cix.uucp                           |
one of these may work                     |
Path: ns-mx!uunet!lll-winken!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!ukma!psuvax1!psuvm!sml108
From: SML108@psuvm.psu.edu (Scott the Great)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: INFO: How to join with aliens
Message-ID: <91174.152715SML108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: 23 Jun 91 19:27:15 GMT
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 95






----------------------------------------------------------------------
This information may be vital to your continued survival.  With the approach
of the 7-11, the truth must be known before it is too late.  We are not
alone!  They are watching me at this very minute.  MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY!

As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups
exclusively because I am being pursued by the men in black, donations
should be sent as often as possible!
---------------------------------------------------------------------

The following text comes from the MUFFINHEAD BS (1-555-UFO-REAL):

---Begin Included Text ----------------------------------------------




                               D.U.F.U.S



                           DUdes For Ufo Sex

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by mainstream society of our tremendous sexual powers.  Through the use of
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Many of our encounters are published in our newsletter "BIG BANG", which
appeared between May 1978 and January 1982.  Because of the AIDS epidemic,
the newsletter has been inactive for almost 3 years, but it is now being
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"My Stepmother is an Alien", "Communion", and the recent "My Favorite
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For the time being, BIG BANG new series will appear soon as a quarterly
newsletter of at least four pages, double-column with all the alien center-
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cosmos.  There is strength in our members so let our united voices be
heard!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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I would like to help get us all laid by real heavenly bodies!
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OTHER CREDIT CARD NUMBERS _____________________________________________

_______________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________________________

Make checks or money orders payable to and mail to:


                                 D.U.F.U.S.
                                 P.O. BOX 69
                            WALLA-WALLA, WI 19409

______________________________________________________________________________

EOF


--
-* Duh Alien *-  InterNet: donut@dunkin.com  // CBM-2000..for the rest of us.
USnail: 3rd Cluster, Spiral Arm, Earth    \X//  Why use anything else?  >:^)
UUCP: ..uunet!uufo!mothership!me                0110 0110 0110 Just say BEEP!
Illuminati < Randi|Consumer's Union|PTA|YMCA|USDA|Mr. Ed > WAR = PEACE
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!unido!ztivax!sof3
From: sof3@ztivax.UUCP (Walter Meyer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Observer Left without me !!
Message-ID: <5662@ztivax.UUCP>
Date: 24 Jun 91 08:10:47 GMT
References: <1991Jun6.181521.18082@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>
Organization: Siemens AG, Munich, W-Germany
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1016 sci.space:18823

carlos@beowulf.JPL.NASA.GOV (Carlos Carrion) writes:
} jenkins@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Steve Jenkins) writes:
} >dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:
} >>...taken  by Viking 1 in 1976.  Hoagland believes the Mars  observer
} >>spacecraft  was  deployed  by the  Space  Shuttle  "Atlantis"  on
} >>mission STS-38.
} >
} >Wow!  I guess we better get busy with the Mars Observer telemetry
} >system.  It's not scheduled for ground testing until later this year.
} >
} Wait Up!!  I've only just released the Mars Orbit Insertion
} Sequence to the Flight Team, and MO has been launched already (and
} by the Shuttle!) ??

Carlos!  Steve!  Like dudes, get it together!  Don Allen is an obvious
genius who REALLY knows these things.  I mean, we must have been out
to lunch regarding Phobos, right!?!

So, maybe JPL could save a whole lot of money by hiring Don Allen to
contact the aliens and just TELL us all about the other planets.  Then
we could just go to the beach...

I was thinking about hacking TASS to support author kill like RN, but
on second thought, with dona in this group I don't need the NatEnq
for comedy!

David Smyth
Object X Guru
Reliable email address coming soon!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!att!att!dptg!sodium!mcripps
From: mcripps@sodium.att.com (16AW20000[ehs]-Mike Cripps(HO0000)T100)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Message-ID: <1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com>
Date: 24 Jun 91 02:31:14 GMT
References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <Hguu41w164w@themax.bison.mb.ca>
Organization: AT&T BL Middletown/Lincroft NJ USA
Lines: 24

In article <Hguu41w164w@themax.bison.mb.ca>, system@themax.bison.mb.ca (Max Vernon) writes:
> >
> Either way, this is all speculation, and I believe
> if an extraterrestrial race of even mild intelligence wanted to leave us a
> message of ANY sort, I believe they would do it in a way that would leave no
> doubt about their existence.

I agree.  Why do a face, when you could have put 40 foot high letters of
fire ( :-) ) on Mars saying "Kilroy was here" (so to speak).  This assumes
that the aliens had writing, but that's probably not that great of an
assumption.  Even if we couldn't read the writing, It ought to be obvious.

Or why not a bunch of prime numbers?  Maybe boulders or pits or something
arranged in groups of prime numbers.

Seems to me a stylized face is a pretty vague way to communicate...

BTW--I must say that the .gif I have of the Mars face doesn't look very
much like a face to me at all.  Quite honestly, I think one of us here
is hallucinating, and it's not me :-)

Mike Cripps
AT&T or NCR, take your pick...
mcripps@sodium.att.com
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Message-ID: <1991Jun24.184204.16366@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Date: 24 Jun 91 18:42:04 GMT
References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <Hguu41w164w@themax.bison.mb.ca> <1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com>
Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (News Owner)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 12


Bias Alert: I'd be very surprised if the Mars face is a
product of intelligence, aside from that of the viewers.

If *I* were going to build a durable passive structure to
indicate my passing by, and I had spaceflight, I'd put the sucker
on the Moon, not Mars. Erosion is lots slower on the Moon. If I wanted
to make seeing it a bit harder, I'd put it on farside, or in a medium
requiring high tech to see (A portrait in magnetic anomolies or long-half
life radioactives, perhaps).

James Nicoll
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!cornell!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!wt0b+
From: wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Message-ID: <UcNZAEi00WAx0dkUVI@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: 24 Jun 91 20:16:16 GMT
References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <Hguu41w164w@themax.bison.mb.ca>,
<1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 11
In-Reply-To: <1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com>

Well, if the aliens were here as little as 3000 years ago, they could
have learned one of the major languages and written a message in big
letters (hieroglyphics?) on the surface...

Sure, we might not be able to read it right away, but it would
DEFINATELY be a message...

First sentence should be "We aren't Egyptians" just to clear up confusion...

-Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!paperboy!hsdndev!dartvax!mars!maine.maine.edu!io10081
From: IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Lost my password...(IO00671)
Message-ID: <91176.113041IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Date: 25 Jun 91 15:30:41 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 14


   I was talking with someone on another account (this is a friend's
account).  I last sent him a letter and have been waiting for a reply.
However, whether or not I received a letter from him or not, I cannot
tell, since I forgot my password (I changed it recently).  I will not
be able to find it out until September.  My original account # was
IO00671 (The Doctor).   I hope that the person I was talking to, if he
is reading this
(I dont remember his address either... boy what a memory!) would forward
all letters to this address until September.

   I have proof that I was the same person he sent the first letter to.

   Please respond by email.  Thank you.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!ukma!psuvax1!hsdndev!dartvax!mars!maine.maine.edu!umasp
From: UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Message-ID: <91177.011843UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Date: 26 Jun 91 05:18:43 GMT
References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
 <Hguu41w164w@themax.bison.mb.ca> <1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com>
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 20

In article <1991Jun24.023114.8269@sodium.att.com>, mcripps@sodium.att.com
(16AW20000[ehs]-Mike Cripps(HO0000)T100) says:
>
{Stuff deleted}
>
>BTW--I must say that the .gif I have of the Mars face doesn't look very
>much like a face to me at all.  Quite honestly, I think one of us here
>is hallucinating, and it's not me :-)
>
>Mike Cripps
>AT&T or NCR, take your pick...
>mcripps@sodium.att.com



I have the mars face gif also.  To me it looks like one of
the Cybermen from the Dr Who series.  Am I right, or what?

George Newell
umasp@maine.maine.edu
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Message-ID: <3454@shodha.enet.dec.com>
Date: 26 Jun 91 13:33:37 GMT
Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 12


In article <91177.011843UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes...
>
>I have the mars face gif also.  To me it looks like one of
>the Cybermen from the Dr Who series.  Am I right, or what?
>
>George Newell
>umasp@maine.maine.edu

        OH MY GOD!!!!!  Aluminum Foil I need More Aluminum Foil!!!

        Steve 8^)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Questions about PROTECTION
Message-ID: <1991Jun22.160815.22137@bilver.uucp>
Date: 22 Jun 91 16:08:15 GMT
References: <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov> <1991Jun20.230539.19833@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 105

In article <1991Jun20.230539.19833@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> anachem@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (mark s gilstrap) writes:
>In article <1991Jun20.210043.21547@pmafire.inel.gov> jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later) writes:
>>
>>While there is a great deal of information regarding UFO abductions, victims
>>and types of dangers associated with "visitors/intruders",
>>I have not found a single source for information regarding PERSONAL DEFENCE!
>>I have tried contacting a few of the more "knowledgeable" and  "serious"
>>members of this group regarding the following questions, to no avail.
>>Perhaps they would feel more inclined to respond in a more "public forum".
>> 


Pardon me folks for a "quickie" here:
******************************************************************

It's hard to respond to you Jeff, when I keep getting mail bounces.

Don't automatically assume that you are getting a brush-off; there's
more mundane explanations such as listed above :-)

My mailer (Elm) does NOT recognize --->> jeffl@servprod.inel.gov << ---
as a -valid- address. Perhaps you need to check into that on your end.

*meanwhile back to our normally scheduled follow-up***************



>>1.  IS there ANYTHING one can do to protect himself and his family
>>    from becoming victims of an "alien" abduction?
>>
> This may be a very unpopular viewpoint.

[ Many lines deleted ]

> If you are trully wanting to overcome the damage and threats
>of these psychic visitations, and if you trully believe the words you
>say, this prayer will be effective. You need no other protection than to
>get yourself out of such deceptions and into the life of grace in the

[ Many more lines deleted ]


>>
> You are totally helpless, yourself. But there is protection
> available.
>
>>5.  Is there ANY way or means one can tell if he or his family or friends
>>    have been victims, or have "implants"?
>>
> There are many signs and manifestations of the psychic distur-
> bances one may experience. The discernment of an experienced
> monastic or priest are to be preferred over our often deceived
> opinions.
>

I left the relevant quoted sections as I believe they are good advice.

This is also a controversial viewpoint :-) It's my opinion that we are
in the "last days" so we can expect many more visitations from the skies,
some of these "visits" are definately not from beings that have our best
interests at heart (to put it mildly).

It's also my opinion that these "watchers"/Nephilim/Greys are indeed
physical manifestations of the "fallen" angels. If you will note, when
reading materials pertaining to cattle mutilations,human abductions,
that these "beings" do not seem to exhibit any emotion towards our species
which is beneficial. To the contrary, we are like lab rats to them (apparently)
and they do not seem to understand that it is NOT "alright" to terrorize
human beings by their abductions and "examinations".

This subject is both a delicate and complex at the same time. Most people
haven't been properly made aware that EBE (Extra-terrestrial Biological
Entities..ie.."aliens") have been visiting our shining orb and our
wonderfully paranoid and (sometimes) overly protective,secretive GOVT
hasn't been ANY help at all. Contrast *our* GOVT's clammed-up attitude
about UFO's in general with that of Belgium, or the Soviet Union.

I'll believe that "swamp gas" are UFO's the day I believe that Meaden's
"plasma vortex theory" or other meteorological nonsense creates the
wonderfully intelligent crop circle patterns, which is to say, that
*those* (IMHO) "explanations" are absolute rubbish.

I am not exactly what you would call a rank and file "religious" person.
I DO, however have strong beliefs in GOD and in the LIGHT in general.

I see nothing at all wrong with developing such attitudes as a form of
protective armor which can be utilized against any lower-vibrational
creatures such as the greys,etc..I am aware of some cases where others
who were being terrorized by the greys/watchers *did* utilize such means
and the EBE's actually FLED the scene.

Conventional means of protection (guns,etc) would be rendered useless by
an alien technology. In "Communion", Whitley Strieber had an elaborate
alarm setup in his upstate NY residence. It *didn't* prevent nor go off
when the aliens came to get him.

I will scout my files for so more info on this topic.

Don

--
-* Don Allen *-  InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP  // Amiga..for the rest of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona      0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order"
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ul'v
From: ul'v@near.mars.edu (ul'v armaaten)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Time for another dinner at Ken's
Message-ID: <1991Jun26.192359.18757@near.mars.edu>
Date: 26 Jun 91 19:30:39 GMT
Organization: Watn psn
Lines: 31

Boy was Mom pissed at me last year.  She yanked my computer access
for a whole orbit of the planet you call Jupiter.  Grounded!  Bummer!
Just cuz I ran fifteen peoples Marshall Fields cards up to the max.
Made me give it all back and do that peace march in Hungary too.

Anyway, now I'm off to college, and I've got access to this awesome
17 TeraMIP computer that makes my old 6 GigaMIP computer at home seem
like a snail.  Mom can't yank my electricity-credits here.  NYAH NYAH.

Anyway, the reason I'm writing is to tell you all that it's bis'n t'
zng, which, loosely translated, means, Spring Break.  Totally Awesome!
Anyway, so, like, I plan to hit Ken's Pancake House again, cuz it was
such a great success last time.  The one on El Camino Real, in Silicon
Valley.  You know the one I'm talking about.  The same one as last year. 
Yeah, well, you'll figure it out.  I'll be wearing dark glasses, with
a neon orange T-shirt, black spandex biking shorts, brown hair (this week),
and a diamond stud in my ear.  On the hetero side (this week).

If you're interested, drop on by and we'll party, and you can let me know,
you know, how my valley dude accent is, like ya know.  And then we can
bop out to Santa Cruz and do sumpin like surf or ride the roller coaster.
Okay?

Later daze.

BTW guys, you know, the face on Mars, it's like a, what you would call
a Senior prank, ya know.  Class of (your year) 1932 did it.  Cool, huh?
Hieroglyphics?  Stacking rocks in prime numbered piles?  Nah!  Too easy. 
Then there'd be no doubt.  It's more fun to keep you wondering.  If you'd
get rid of that War Weenie Wimp you have for a President, and devote your
energy to getting your butts up here, then you'd know for sure.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ysub!psuvm!cunyvm!busbh
From: BUSBH@CUNYVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: CONFESS NOW!!
Message-ID: <91177.161717BUSBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: 26 Jun 91 20:17:17 GMT
References: <3435@shodha.enet.dec.com>
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Lines: 7

How can anyone be afraid of little aliens anyway. Yeesh! They're like
roaches, just step on them, for gosh sake. And this 666 stuff, simply
alien propaganda. Who's Bob, another alien in disguise? You folks are
very creative, yuck. I will have to send you back to universe grade
school to re-learn your space ABC's.

The Guardian of the Universe
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ysub!psuvm!cunyvm!busbh
From: BUSBH@CUNYVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MARS FACE
Message-ID: <91177.162511BUSBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: 26 Jun 91 20:25:11 GMT
References: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk>
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Lines: 5

They are not extinct, you are the aliens from Mars. Evolution and the
stronger gravity of earth has changed your race to its present form.
The face is a reminder of what your race once looked like.

Th Guardian of the Universe
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!levels!ma903475
From: ma903475@levels.sait.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <16500.286a08a9@levels.sait.edu.au>
Date: 27 Jun 91 06:17:53 GMT
Organization: University of South Australia
Lines: 1

Z
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!levels!ma903475
From: ma903475@levels.sait.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <16502.286a0c0a@levels.sait.edu.au>
Date: 27 Jun 91 06:32:18 GMT
Organization: University of South Australia
Lines: 7

Merda!!!
e que ninguen fala galego ou castelan?
please, say something in castillian or galician!
for my sake, otherwise I miss a lot, and I am very
interested in  the subject.
saludos from quique, presently living down under,
el culo del mundo!!!!!!
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From: kim@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Mingoo Kim)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Area 51?
Keywords: What is Area 51?
Message-ID: <Jun.27.10.27.49.1991.7091@galaxy.rutgers.edu>
Date: 27 Jun 91 14:27:49 GMT
Sender: news@galaxy.rutgers.edu
Distribution: alt
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: andromeda.rutgers.edu

Did anyone happened to see "Current Affair" on Fox, a few days ago?  There was
a report about military base named Area 51, located in Arizona, that was
secretly holding a UFO.

It's not a secret anymore because a physicist working there told couple of his
friends that there were conducting experiments on the UFO, and the word spred,
according Current Affair.  The physicist no longer works there anymore, of
course.  According to him, the military was actually flying (?) the UFO.

Does anyone any info of this military base?  Is this valid or is this just one
of those reports just to get more viewers for Fox?  I saw people actually
sitting around the base just to get a glimpse of the UFO.  Where exactly is
this military base?

mingoo k
rutgers university
kim@andromeda.rutgers.edu
Path: ns-mx!uunet!hoptoad!amdcad!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30
From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Book to Read!
Message-ID: <efKJ02TD08rC01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
Date: 27 Jun 91 16:14:19 GMT
References: <3435@shodha.enet.dec.com>
Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com
Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 20


    I just bought the book "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley.

  All I can say is if you want to blow your mind away buy this book.
  He talks about alien visitations throughout history and how he
  believes they misrepresented themselves as gods and angels to exert
  control over humankind.

  The real thought provoking concept is that he believes that we were
  created by these beings for a purpose. He relates various creation
  legends and uses excerpts from the Bible and ancient scrolls of
  various people.

  I find it really intresting reading. Anyone else out there read this?

--
=========================================================================
            All poetry posted is Copyright protected.
Denise Solis - Amdahl Corp.                     dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com
=========================================================================
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From: ul'v@near.mars.edu (ul'v armaaten)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Time for another dinner at Ken's
Message-ID: <1991Jun27.192359.18758@near.mars.edu>
Date: 28 Jun 91 00:49:52 GMT
Organization: Watn psn
Lines: 5


Boy did I drop the ball.  Got all excited about this awesome babe walkin'
by and forgot to tell you when I'd be at Ken's.

Okay?  So I'll be there tomorrow, that's Friday, be there about 5:00 pm.
Path: ns-mx!shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu!jrblack
From: jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu (James Roger Black)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Review: UFO Crash at Roswell
Message-ID: <6701@ns-mx.uiowa.edu>
Date: 28 Jun 91 03:33:34 GMT
Sender: news@ns-mx.uiowa.edu
Reply-To: jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu (James Roger Black)
Organization: U of Iowa, Iowa City, IA
Lines: 219

Book Review: "UFO Crash at Roswell" by Kevin D. Randle and Donald
R. Schmitt (Avon Books, 1991), 327 pages.

(Reviewed   by  Michael  Corbin  and  James  R.  Black,   ParaNet
Information  Service. Copyright 1991 by Michael Corbin and  James
R. Black. All Rights Reserved.)

There  are  some  books that everyone with an  interest  in  UFOs
should own. "UFO Crash at Roswell" is one of them. Here, for  the
first time, is a definitive answer to the long-standing question,
"Has the U.S. government ever recovered a crashed flying saucer?"
The answer is a resounding "Yes!"

The Story and the Evidence
--------------------------
In brief, "UFO Crash at Roswell" tells how an unidentified flying
object  struck the earth on July 2, 1947 near Corona, New  Mexico
during  a violent thunderstorm; how the wreckage was found  by  a
local  rancher  and reported to the 509th Bomb Group  at  Roswell
Army  Air  Field;  how the soldiers of  the  509th  gathered  the
wreckage,  discovered a second (and possibly a third)  associated
crash site, took possession of four alien bodies, and transported
their finds to Los Alamos and Wright Field for analysis; and  how
the  military  brass  in the Eighth Air Force  and  the  Pentagon
squelched  the  facts,  disinformed the  public,  and  suppressed
almost all discussion of the events for decades afterwards.

Such  a  story could easily be dismissed as the rankest  sort  of
sci-fi nonsense, and in its previous incarnations it has been  so
dismissed  by  UFO believers and debunkers  alike.  When  Charles
Berlitz  and William L. Moore's "The Roswell Incident"  made  the
first  tentative  steps  to cover this ground  in  1980,  it  was
mercilessly  derided  and  picked to  pieces  for  its  intrinsic
unbelievability and its lapses of both fact and logic. But Randle
and  Schmitt know their history, and they were determined not  to
repeat  the mistakes of the past. Randle is a  former  helicopter
pilot and Air Force intelligence officer; Schmitt is Director  of
Special Investigations for the Center for UFO Studies, one of the
oldest  and  most  respectable  of  today's  UFO   organizations.
Together, over the course of almost three years, they interviewed
more  than  200 witnesses, reviewed hundreds  of  documents,  and
conducted the first scientific site visit by private citizens  to
the  crash site itself. The result is a mountain of  proof  which
will  delight  the true believer, astound  the  open-minded,  and
hopefully give the debunkers a real run for their money.

Inevitably, much of the book is concerned with sometimes confused
tales  of  unearthly  materials  and alien  bodies.  But  in  our
estimation  this  is  not  the  most  important  and   convincing
evidence; much more telling is the downright strange behavior  of
the government itself, both then and now. Witnesses can easily be
mistaken  about esoteric technical issues outside their  everyday
experience; it's much harder to misinterpret being threatened  by
uniformed  men  carrying guns. The U.S. military has  buried  the
Roswell event under all the trappings of a full-blown  government
coverup:  the  intimidation  of  witnesses,  the  destruction  or
suppression  of evidence, and a systematic campaign of  lies  and
disinformation  to prevent the truth from becoming widely  known.
The  indisputable  fact  of  the  coverup  itself  is  enough  to
establish that Roswell is truly the tip of the "Cosmic Watergate"
iceberg.

The authors have anticipated the inevitable assault by  debunkers
who  "know"  that  the  Roswell event  cannot  have  happened  as
described.  They  consider  whether  the  Roswell  crash  can  be
explained  as  nothing more than a downed weather balloon,  or  a
stray  V-2 rocket nose cone, or a late-breaking Japanese  balloon
bomb--and  then  firmly  reject them all. In the  end,  only  one
explanation  remains:  that in 1947 the  New  Mexico  countryside
witnessed the crash of a vehicle that was "not of this world".

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
-------------------------------
"UFO Crash at Roswell" is not without its flaws. It was published
as  a paperback original rather than in hardcover,  which  almost
inevitably means it will appear in few libraries and will  garner
few serious reviews. The cover art (against the authors'  wishes)
is  a  classic  "daylight  disk"  photo  which  has  been  widely
denounced  as  a  hoax and has nothing whatever to  do  with  the
Roswell crash. The text is replete with typographical errors  and
grammatical slips that even casual editing should have caught and
corrected.  There are mangled and  self-contradictory  quotations
(some of which can be repaired by reference to repetitions of the
same  material  elsewhere in the book), and there  are  "backward
glances"  to  facts that have not yet been discussed.  But  these
represent a failure by the publisher to take the book  seriously,
rather  than  a  failure by the authors to  write  a  book  worth
reading.

Perhaps more disconcerting is the authors' decision to cover  the
same  ground  four times from different perspectives: once  in  a
brief historical overview, once in a "just the facts" account  of
the  event  itself, once in a blow-by-blow description  of  their
investigation,  and finally once more in a day-by-day time  line.
This  occasionally  gives the reader an annoying sense  of  "deja
vu",  as  well as making it difficult to know which part  of  the
book to search through for any particular detail.

On the positive side, the authors have taken a very  professional
and  forthright  approach  to their work.  The  contributions  of
previous  researchers  are  acknowleged  (and,  where  necessary,
gently  corrected);  shortcomings  in  the  evidence  are  freely
admitted; witnesses are named, and sources are documented.  There
are detailed lists of interviewees and participants, a  glossary,
a  bibliography, extensive footnotes, and an index--all of  which
will greatly assist anyone who wishes to verify their information
or  to  build  on  their  efforts.  One  senses  no  "proprietary
interests"  at  work here, which is a welcome relief in  a  field
where  information  is often jealously  guarded  and  cooperation
among researchers is all too rare.

Where Do We Go From Here?
-------------------------
"UFO  Crash  at Roswell" does not mark the  end  of  crashed-disk
research;   indeed,  it  is  only  the  beginning.   A   moment's
consideration yields any number of avenues for further  research,
some of which Randle and Schmitt are no doubt already pursuing:

(1)  The material relating to the second and third  crash  sites,
the discovery of the alien bodies, and their final disposition at
the  hands  of the military is still sketchy and full  of  holes;
further  research  is definitely needed here, both to  find  more
witnesses and to establish precisely what happened and how it  is
related to the primary site.

(2) Roswell is not the only rumored UFO crash; Randle and Schmitt
list  a  number  of  them in an  appendix.  These  other  alleged
incidents  need  to be investigated with the same  vigor  as  the
Roswell crash, and conclusively verified or disproved.

(3) The role of Kirtland Air Force Base, not only in the  Roswell
recovery and its coverup but in other landmark UFO events,  needs
to  be thoroughly investigated and documented. Kirtland crops  up
over and over again in Randle and Schmitt's story--as a source of
orders  and  machinations outside the normal  military  chain  of
command,  as a transshipment point for material destined for  the
labs at Los Alamos, as the place where secret scientific  reports
on the crash were filed, and as the possible source of a military
mapping  expedition near the crash site years  afterwards.  Given
the  prominence of Kirtland in the infamous Bennewitz affair  and
other  disinformation  operations which are known  to  have  been
carried  out  by  personnel of the Air Force  Office  of  Special
Investigations, it seems highly significant that Kirtland appears
so early and so prominently in the Roswell case.

(4)  As far as we know now, Roswell was the first recovery  of  a
crashed  UFO;  but  there  is reason to  believe  that  the  U.S.
government  had, to say the least, already given the matter  some
thought.  The  speed  with which the military  responded  to  the
initial  report,  the forethought shown by the  arrangements  for
transporting  the wreckage, and the thoroughness with  which  the
witnesses  were hushed up and the evidence  eliminated,  indicate
that  the  Roswell  coverup  was not an  ad-hoc  response  to  an
unexpected  event  but rather the outworking  of  a  pre-arranged
plan.  It remains to be seen whether this plan was formulated  as
the  result of prior experience in crashed-saucer  retrievals  or
was merely a contingency plan provoked by earlier encounters with
"foo  fighters",  "ghost rockets", and "green fireballs"  in  the
postwar years.

(5)  The revelation by General Arthur Exon of the existence of  a
UFO control group outside official channels once again raises the
spectre  of  MJ-12.  Exon referred to the group  as  "the  Unholy
Thirteen"  for  lack of a better name, but of course  this  could
easily mean nothing more than the twelve principals of MJ-12 plus
the  President  himself, to whom the  control  group  undoubtedly
reported.  While the controversy surrounding the  MJ-12  briefing
paper  should not be allowed to sully the Roswell  event  itself,
the  semi-official acknowledgment that such a group once  existed
(and  presumably still exists) should add new fuel to  the  MJ-12
fire.

(6)  There  is a crying need to re-evaluate  postwar  history  in
light  of  the  now-established fact of  the  Roswell  crash  and
retrieval. If the U.S. government successfully recovered an alien
spacecraft,  alien  technology,  and alien corpses  in  1947,  it
should have had a profound impact on high-tech research  (several
witnesses  described a material similar to modern fiber  optics),
on  foreign policy, and on the aerospace industry and  the  space
program--not  to mention its effect on the government's  attitude
toward  the  UFO problem itself. Just as the  revelation  of  the
ultra-secret  Enigma machine and the allies' successful  cracking
of  Axis  codes  has  required  a  complete  rethinking  of   the
historiography of World War II, so the Roswell event necessitates
a  reinvestigation of almost everything that has happened in  the
last 44 years.

(7)  Finally,  a host of questions remain  unanswered  about  the
relationship  between the Roswell crash and the "other  half"  of
the   UFO   equation:  abductions,   occult   phenomena,   cattle
mutilations, and all the rest. Roswell *looks* like the crash  of
an  extraterrestrial  spacecraft; but that could be  because  the
event has been shaped to look that way, either by the government,
by the researchers, or by the forces behind the event itself.  It
would  be  a grave error to conclude at this point  that  Roswell
establishes the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis as the only  solution
to  the  UFO mystery. That something  extraordinary  happened  at
Roswell  is  astonishingly clear. Its  ultimate  explanation  and
significance are yet to be determined.

Conclusion
----------
If  you have any interest in UFOs, go out and get a copy of  this
book.  Better yet, get two copies--one for yourself, and  one  to
loan out to your friends. You'll be glad you did.

*****************************************************************
This  article  originally  appeared  in  InfoPara,   the  on-line
newsletter  of  the  ParaNet  Information  Service.  To subscribe
to InfoPara, send email to:

UUCP                  {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request
DOMAIN                       infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com
*****************************************************************
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Roger Black                                   jrblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu
 Weeg Computing Center                                  The University of Iowa

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Area 51?
Message-ID: <71851.286AC965@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 28 Jun 91 05:22:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO
Lines: 43


 > From: kim@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Mingoo Kim)
 > Date: 27 Jun 91 14:27:49 GMT
 > Message-ID: <Jun.27.10.27.49.1991.7091@galaxy.rutgers.edu>
 > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
 >
 > It's not a secret anymore because a physicist working there told couple
 > of his
 > friends that there were conducting experiments on the UFO, and the word
 > spred,
 > according Current Affair.  The physicist no longer works there anymore,
 > of
 > course.  According to him, the military was actually flying (?) the UFO.
 >
 > Does anyone any info of this military base?  Is this valid or is this
 > just one
 > of those reports just to get more viewers for Fox?  I saw people
 > actually
 > sitting around the base just to get a glimpse of the UFO.  Where exactly
 > is
 > this military base?

That person is Robert Lazar, alleged ex-worker of a supposed top secret area
S-4 at the Nellis test range in Nevada.  Although Lazar's story is highly
sensational, he has not been cooperative in efforts to substantiate his
veracity.  Following his appearance on KLAS-TV's program where he told his
"secrets," Lazar was arrested and subsequently prosecuted for pandering.
Although this might tend to damage his credibility, there is a theory that
this was a ploy to silence him.  Since this time, he has been avoiding public
appearances.

If you wish further information on this, netmail me at
mcorbin@scicom.alphacdc.com.

Our organization did an investigation into these claims.  We have several
files in our library available detailing his story.

Mike

-- 
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism.d,misc.headlines,alt.stupidity
Subject: Re: Advertising (was: Re: INFO: Application To Join C.A.U.S.)
Keywords: Don, Allen
Message-ID: <1991Jun26.012255.23304@bilver.uucp>
Date: 26 Jun 91 01:22:55 GMT
References: <1991Jun22.090530.8469@agora.rain.com>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 102
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1034 alt.paranormal:1992 alt.conspiracy:6232 alt.activism.d:1153 misc.headlines:16884 alt.stupidity:2335

In article <1991Jun22.090530.8469@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Barton) writes:
>
>  [ talk.religion.newage and misc.misc removed from Newsgroups line since
>    they were inappropriate ]
>
>In article <1991Jun19.133125.29564@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:
>>In article <1991Jun18.132817.16937@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton) writes:
>>>
>>>  [ subscription advertisement from Don Allen deleted ]
>>>
>>>  Why are you posting these commercial advertisements?
>
>>The posting is for --->> INFORMATIONAL PUPOSES [sic] ONLY <<---
>
>  If you're only trying to obtain information such as someone's name, address,
>phone number, etc, then why ask for money?

I see you have elected to show the entire world your complete stock
of intelligent and "witty" arguments..

This will probably be a waste of time, but here goes:

This information is presented for others to become aware of what organizations
are available, and as _such_ has been presented in that manner.

It is up to the individuals themselves to determine if they so wish to become
members of these non-profit organizations. If you wish, you can continue
to complain about that, that's your perogative, however others that have been
following these postings have let me know in email and in public here that
they are strongly in favor of the postings FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES.

Frankly, I'm not interested in SELLING anything, and as such, have NOTHING,
nor any PRODUCT to sell. The *only* thing you have succeeded in so far is
proving outright what a CLOSED MIND and an outright Butt hole you are.

Now, you are NOT going to change my position. We can argue about this
until the crack of doom, but it isn't profitable for anyone and just
proves to everyone what your mentality level is.




>>Since you have taken it upon *YOURSELF* to be the resident NET POLICE
>>then you might as well understand that I certainly will NOT be intimidated
>>by witless ASSHOLES such as yourself.
>
>  You no doubt have great experience with such people, having lived with one
>your entire life.

BOY! what a comeback!! Geez..sit up all night thinking of that one did ya..
(brush..brush) You are a no more than a little flea..and I'm a can of RAID.


>
>>You can either slink back into you HOLE or under your ROCK or put my NAME
>>in your KILL FILE.
>>Either way, I will NOT be affected at ALL by your comments..
>
>  Does this mean that you won't be sending me numerous copies of those large,
>worthless files from somebody's BBS, like you did last time?
>

Let's tell the *entire* truth here BOB...the fact of the matter was, that
YOU elected to send ME a ONE LINE RESPONSE to the FORTY THOUSAND BYTE article
that you QUOTED THE ENTIRE FRIGGING MESSAGE.

You did this a few times...no you couldn't have just sent me a simple one
line email..you WASTED tremendous amounts of bandwidth so..you got it
sent BACK to you.

 You also made the mistake of doing the very SAME thing to my sysadmin.
We *both* have concluded that you're not too bright.



>>IF you have anything at all to say, then say it here in PUBLIC instead of
>>resorting to your *usual* snide comments to me in email.
>
>  Obviously what I said (<1991Jun18.132817.16937@agora.rain.com>) was public;
>otherwise you wouldn't be able to quote my public message, as you did above.
>
>>IF I have "offended" anyone's sense of what is "politically correct" then
>>I do hereby apologize PUBLICALLY [sic].
>
>  Obviously it had nothing to do with any political views, but with misuse of
>discussion groups for commercial purposes.

No, I have you CORRECTLY pegged as a would-be NET POLICE and as such you WILL
be IGNORED. Go play in your sandbox in alt.stupidity.

Do your parents know that you using the computer when you've been told
time after time that you can't until you do your homework first?

G'day :-)

Don

--
-* Don Allen *-  InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP  // Amiga..for the rest of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona      0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order"
Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw
From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Area 51?
Message-ID: <91179.132519JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Date: 28 Jun 91 21:25:19 GMT
References: <71851.286AC965@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Lines: 12


I do have a little bit of second hand information about the subject
you are talking about.  The area you are talking about is called
groom lake which is a dry lake like Edwards Dry Lake where the
Shuttle lands.  Althouh I will not devulge my sources of information
their a 3 civilizations   aliens that come into our atmosphere over our
north pole at 20,000 miles an hour.  They stop over Lake Isabella just
north of Mojave, Calif. and hover while they talk to Edwards AFB until
they are given permission to fly at a certain altitude and speed to
Groom Lake, where they go into hangers inside Groom Mountains and they
work with our people.  Groom Lake is approximately 40 miles NW of
Los Vegas.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!billy
From: billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Area 51?
Keywords: What is Area 51?
Message-ID: <4374@anasaz.UUCP>
Date: 28 Jun 91 17:04:29 GMT
References: <Jun.27.10.27.49.1991.7091@galaxy.rutgers.edu>
Reply-To: billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore)
Distribution: alt
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.
Lines: 15

In article <Jun.27.10.27.49.1991.7091@galaxy.rutgers.edu> kim@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Mingoo Kim) writes:
>Did anyone happened to see "Current Affair" on Fox, a few days ago?  There was
>a report about military base named Area 51, located in Arizona, that was
>secretly holding a UFO

It's in NEVADA, about 125 miles north of Las Vegas.  The installation is real,
its a top secret test area for new air craft.  Robert Lazar claims he is a
physicist who saw 9 alien spacecraft and one live Grey plus some dead ones
while he worked there.  He disclosed this to KLAS TV reporter George Knapp
who then went on to find 4 or 5 more "unnamed sources" who confirmed this

Lazar's background can't be verified but his name does appear in a Los
Alamos telephone directory.  He claims the government "erased" his college
records at MIT, birth certificate and all previous employment records.
Aloamos telephone directory.  .
Path: ns-mx!uunet!systech!johnr
From: johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup
Message-ID: <992@systech.bjorn.COM>
Date: 28 Jun 91 23:16:03 GMT
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy
Organization: Systech Corp., San Diego, CA
Lines: 37
Xref: ns-mx alt.conspiracy:6237 alt.alien.visitors:1037

I have read all of the "UFO" postings by Don Allen, and have done some
other minor reading on the side about this stuff.  I read most
of "Above Top Secret" by Tim Good (I think that's the author's name).

I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to
me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened
at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real.

The frustrating part for me is that all of the facts have been covered up.
Just what is the truth?  What the f*** is going on?

If a crash occured at Roswell, and aliens were recovered, then to me,
this would be the most significant event that has occurred in all of
human history.  Does anyone else agree with this viewpoint??

All I want is the truth.  Is there anything at all I can do (and still
live to tell my grandchildren about  ;-) ) to help uncover this mystery?
Will the facts ever be made known to the public?  If so, what events will lead
up to the full disclosure of facts?

I know that most of these questions aren't answerable right now,
but I just have to say that I am very frustrated with this whole
UFO thing.

What's a person to do??


Just sign me ...   seeker of truth.




--
--------------------------------------------------------------
John Reed                           {uunet,ucsd}!systech!johnr
Systech                             johnr%systech.uucp@ucsd
--------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Book To Read!
Message-ID: <71881.286BF336@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 29 Jun 91 00:55:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO
Lines: 32


 > From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis)
 > Date: 27 Jun 91 16:14:19 GMT
 > Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
 > Message-ID: <efKJ02TD08rC01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
 > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
 >
 >
 >     I just bought the book "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley.
 >
 >   All I can say is if you want to blow your mind away buy this book.
 >   He talks about alien visitations throughout history and how he
 >   believes they misrepresented themselves as gods and angels to exert
 >   control over humankind.
 >
 >   The real thought provoking concept is that he believes that we were
 >   created by these beings for a purpose. He relates various creation
 >   legends and uses excerpts from the Bible and ancient scrolls of
 >   various people.
 >
 >   I find it really intresting reading. Anyone else out there read this?

I read as much as I could stomach.  It is a carefully veiled lesson in
Rosicrucianism, if you know what you are reading.  I am curious as to what
parts of it you found so impressive.

Mike

-- 
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw
From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Information about UFO'S
Message-ID: <91180.112227JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Date: 29 Jun 91 19:22:27 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Lines: 2

I'M TRYING TO SEE IF I CAN GET SOME INFORMATION ON AT THIS
TIME. PLEASE BEAR WITH ME.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!samsung!caen!uwm.edu!linac!unixhub!slacvm!johnfw
From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: NEWS INFORMATION ABOUT UFO'S
Message-ID: <91180.115450JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Date: 29 Jun 91 19:54:50 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Lines: 15

I AM SURE HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING ANY INFORMATION ON THIS SYSTEM
BUT HERE I GO AGAIN.
IN REGARD TO WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS AN ACTUAL UFO CRASH AT
ROSWELL OR NOT I DON'T KNOW BUT A UFO INVESTIGATOR BY THE NAME OF
STANTON FRIEDMAN WHO I HAD ON MY TV SHOW SURELY DID BELIEVE IT.  IT
IS MY OPINION THAT OUR GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN CONTACTED BY PEOPLE FROM
OTHER PLANETS IN THE PAST.  I WOULD REFER YOU TO A BOOK IN THE CALIF.
LIBRARY SYSTEM CALLED A STRANGER IN THE PENTAGON BY DR. FRAND STRANGES.
THIS BOOKS STATES THAT DURING THE PRISIDENCY OF IKE OUR GOVERNMENT
WAS CONTACTED BY ANOTHER PLANET AND THEY OFFERED TO GIVE US HELP TO
PRODUCE UNLIMIETED FREE POWER, DO AWAY WITH DISEASE, SHOW US THE TRUTH
OF RELIGION, EXTEND OUT LIFE SPAN AND DO AWAY WITH OUR MONEY.  IKE TOLD
THEM THAT HIS ADVISORS TOLD HIM THAT HE SHOULDN'T ACCEPT HIS OFFER
BECAUSE IT MIGHT CAUSE US TO GO INTO SUCH A CRISIS THAT WE WOULD NEVER
RECOVER FROM IT.  SO THAT'S ALL FOR NOW.
Article: 12539 of sci.skeptic
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!ariel!ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au!luga!latcs1!barton
From: barton@latcs1.lat.oz.au (M'gulfn Dread Serpent)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: NEWS INFORMATION ABOUT UFO'S
Message-ID: <1991Jun30.101823.19345@latcs1.lat.oz.au>
Date: 30 Jun 91 10:18:23 GMT
References: <91180.115450JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia
Lines: 51
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1041 sci.skeptic:12539

In article <91180.115450JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
] I AM SURE HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING ANY INFORMATION ON THIS SYSTEM
] BUT HERE I GO AGAIN.
] IN REGARD TO WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS AN ACTUAL UFO CRASH AT
] ROSWELL OR NOT I DON'T KNOW BUT A UFO INVESTIGATOR BY THE NAME OF
] STANTON FRIEDMAN WHO I HAD ON MY TV SHOW SURELY DID BELIEVE IT.  IT
] IS MY OPINION THAT OUR GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN CONTACTED BY PEOPLE FROM
] OTHER PLANETS IN THE PAST.  I WOULD REFER YOU TO A BOOK IN THE CALIF.
] LIBRARY SYSTEM CALLED A STRANGER IN THE PENTAGON BY DR. FRAND STRANGES.
] THIS BOOKS STATES THAT DURING THE PRISIDENCY OF IKE OUR GOVERNMENT
] WAS CONTACTED BY ANOTHER PLANET AND THEY OFFERED TO GIVE US HELP TO
] PRODUCE UNLIMIETED FREE POWER, DO AWAY WITH DISEASE, SHOW US THE TRUTH
] OF RELIGION, EXTEND OUT LIFE SPAN AND DO AWAY WITH OUR MONEY.  IKE TOLD

What proof does he cite for this claim?
Who's religion (there are a whole lot of them out there :)?

] THEM THAT HIS ADVISORS TOLD HIM THAT HE SHOULDN'T ACCEPT HIS OFFER
] BECAUSE IT MIGHT CAUSE US TO GO INTO SUCH A CRISIS THAT WE WOULD NEVER
] RECOVER FROM IT.

Why?

Did they also promise us longevity (or imortality)?

Pretty dumb for aliens to offer such a warlike society as was present at the
time such "unlimited power" and scientific superiority (imagine the bombs they
could make :)

I cross posted this to sci.skeptic for other skeptics to read, hope you don't
mind...

BTW: this is not a flame, just asking how such a claim could be justified...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blessed bee!

Douglas Barton - barton@latcs1.oz.au - Lucidity Reals, OK!
                     "Don't tread in THAT dogma, it smells!"

And your fortune for today --

Furious activity is no substitute for understanding.
-- H. H. Williams


--
Blessed bee!

Douglas Barton - barton@latcs1.oz.au - Lucidity Reals, OK!
                     "Don't tread in THAT dogma, it smells!"


Article: 1042 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!strath-cs!glasgow!ullaha
From: ullaha@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Asim Ullah)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: our "Alien Liaisons"
Message-ID: <1991Jun30.191448.6681@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
Date: 30 Jun 91 19:14:48 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
Lines: 15


To get more information on Bob Lazar, "Area 51- Dreamland"
,the crashed,captured and given-to-us disks, read Timothy Goods
new book-"Alien Liaison- the Ultimate Secret".


JUST REMEMBER:
__________________________________________________________________
For every piece of disinformation spread, a piece of information is
  hidden.
___________________________________________________________________

HUNT FOR THE TRUTH.

Article: 1043 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!strath-cs!glasgow!mishras
From: mishras@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Suneil Mishra)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: our "Alien Liaisons"
Message-ID: <1991Jun30.192906.559@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
Date: 30 Jun 91 19:29:06 GMT
References: <1991Jun30.191448.6681@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
Lines: 18

ullaha@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Asim Ullah) writes:


>To get more information on Bob Lazar, "Area 51- Dreamland"
>,the crashed,captured and given-to-us disks, read Timothy Goods
>new book-"Alien Liaison- the Ultimate Secret".


I've just read this book and theres a photo in it of a model of
 what is claimed to be a model of a dead aliens body, does
anyone out there have any info on this or any thing else on what
the book covers.
For example the "cosmic journey project" or cattle mutilations.

Article: 1045 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!dorsaidm!kizn
From: kizn@dorsai.com (Daniel Delvalle)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Book To Read!
Message-ID: <DNyD51w163w@dorsai.com>
Date: 1 Jul 91 03:10:00 GMT
References: <71881.286BF336@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Organization: The Dorsai Diplomatic Mission ( Mail address : user@dorsai.com )
Lines: 33

>  > From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis)
>  > Date: 27 Jun 91 16:14:19 GMT
>  > Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
>  > Message-ID: <efKJ02TD08rC01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
>  > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors


>  >   He talks about alien visitations throughout history and how he
>  >   believes they misrepresented themselves as gods and angels to exert
>  >   control over humankind.
>  >


>
>Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Micheal Corbin) writes:
> I read as much as I could stomach.  It is a carefully veiled lesson in
> Rosicrucianism, if you know what you are reading.  I am curious as to what
> parts of it you found so impressive.
>
> Mike
>


 Hmm  Just seems like the stuff the author of "Chariot of the Gods", Von
Dankien,(I believe it's spelled like that), and Countless other authors have
been ranting about for Decades?? I think even Charles fort had the same
notion when he made that remark about the Human race being "Property", way
back after the turn of the century.

           KIZN.        """""
                        ". ."
                          l
                         (-)

Article: 2015 of alt.paranormal
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!mips!ptimtc!rdmei!icspub!astemgw!wnoc-tyo-news!dclsic!sjc!leia!harkcom
From: harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.stupidity,alt.flame
Subject: Re: Advertising (was: Re: INFO: Application To Join C.A.U.S.)
Message-ID: <HARKCOM.91Jul1154253@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp>
Date: 1 Jul 91 06:42:53 GMT
References: <1991Jun22.090530.8469@agora.rain.com>
<1991Jun26.012255.23304@bilver.uucp>
Sender: news@leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation, Tokyo, Japan
Lines: 122
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1046 alt.paranormal:2015 alt.stupidity:2340 alt.flame:26470


   I just couldn't help but take the piss out of someone as apparently
ignorant as the poster I am replying to. If you are not so ignorant
Mr. Allen then please read the following with the knowledge that you
have a sense of humor. Then please attempt to understand the hidden
message within: "quit posting such in places it doesn't belong"...
If you are as ignorant as you appear then please feel free to ignore
the message (that's what ignorants do), and continue posting your
unwanted, uninteresting, uninformative waste of bandwidth to all
those groups where it doesn't belong. (those other than alt.alien* or
alt.stupidity)...

In article <1991Jun26.012255.23304@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp
   (Don Allen) writes:

 =}The *only* thing you have succeeded in so far is
 =}proving outright what a CLOSED MIND and an outright Butt hole you are.
 =}
 =}Now, you are NOT going to change my position. We can argue about this
 =}until the crack of doom

   Speaking of closed minds... Apparently you have your head too far up
your ass to give your mind room to breath. Your information is more than
welcome. Your ignorance and advertisements should be put up there with
your head (won't change the smell of them at all).

   I know you won't change your mind because you are too fucking stupid
to be able to do so. If the policy is "no ducks because we don't like
quacking" and you bring in something that quacks and bears a striking
resemblence to Disney's Donald, then a lot of people are going to tell
you "NO DUCKS". And the stronger you flatulate that "IT ISN'T A DUCK
YOU CLOSED MINDED IGNORANT FOOLS" the worse you are going to smell...

 =}(brush..brush) You are a no more than a little flea..and I'm a can of RAID.

   I haven't heard that one since what, elemetary school? I thought we were
dealing with an adult but apparently we have an oversized, computer
(il)literate, shitty diapered little snot nose out there trying to
tell us what a duck is...

 =}Let's tell the *entire* truth here BOB...the fact of the matter was, that
 =}YOU elected to send ME a ONE LINE RESPONSE to the FORTY THOUSAND BYTE
 =}article that you QUOTED THE ENTIRE FRIGGING MESSAGE.

   If you think that was big then why the fuck did you post it to usenet?
Some people can be the biggest dick without even having one...

 =}You did this a few times...no you couldn't have just sent me a simple one
 =}line email..you WASTED tremendous amounts of bandwidth so..you got it
 =}sent BACK to you.

   Using this logic, we should all send you a copy of your own posts.
Then maybe you'll think before you stink... You know, like keep that shit
out of groups that don't give a fuck about it...

 =} You also made the mistake of doing the very SAME thing to my sysadmin.
 =}We *both* have concluded that you're not too bright.

   So the potato farmer can recognize potatoes... What's new. The rest of
us already knew you were a fucking imbecile. Maybe the other poster was
just giving you a taste of your own feces... If you didn't like it, you
shouldn't be trying to feed it to us...

 =}No,I have you CORRECTLY pegged as a would-be NET POLICE and as such you WILL
 =}be IGNORED.

   No, you incorrectly pegged him as net police while the rest of the world
correctly pegged you as braindead. Thank you for your valiant efforts to
prove us right.

 =} Go play in your sandbox in alt.stupidity.

   At least he is human enough to know what to do in a sandbox. Do you
still get the urge to defecate everytime you see one? you might consider
taking one of the stupid "are you an alien" quizzes that appear in things
which "enquiring minds" read.

Q:  Do you have a brain?
DA: yes
Q:  Is it dead?
DA:
Q:  Do you have a dick?
DA: i think so, because people call me one so often
Q:  Do you have a spine?
DA: not the last time I checked (mommy, what's a spine?)
Q:  Do you consider yourself to be as ignorant as the
    average reader of this magazine?
DA: no, i'm number one. that's numero uno for you ignorant readers
                               ***************************
Q:  Do you know what a duck is?
DA: yes, but nobody else seems to know
duck: (quack, quack)
DA: what was that?

Guide: If you answered the above questions as you believe DA would have
then we suggest you contact your home planet and get the hell off this
planet before you upset the sentient beings.

*disclaimer: DA didn't make the racist comment above. It was designed
to point out that spineless, dickless, braindead, duck fuckers like
people who do things like DA does are as ignorant as they appear...
which soemtimes leads them to believe racist propaganda...

 =}Do your parents know that you using the computer...

   Do your trainers know that you've gotten out of your cage? I hope you
didn't mess the keyboard like last time (but at least you were kind
enough to lick it up). You know if you keep this up they'll have to
put you to sleep...

 =}G'day :-)

   It would be if I knew you would stop cross-posting to so many groups
and keep your financial remarks in your bank book or paid advertising
where they belong. Or better yet, I can sit back and pretend you're
dead until you befoul a decent newsgroup again...

 =}/ Amiga..for the rest of us.
 =}/ Why use anything else? :^)

   It figures. When are you going to stop using it as a game machine
and get an education so that you can learn what a duck is?

Article: 1047 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!amdcad!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30
From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Book To Read!
Message-ID: <080w02jo090O01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
Date: 1 Jul 91 15:47:33 GMT
References: <71881.286BF336@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com
Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (denise)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 36

In article <71881.286BF336@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:
> >
> >   The real thought provoking concept is that he believes that we were
> >   created by these beings for a purpose. He relates various creation
> >   legends and uses excerpts from the Bible and ancient scrolls of
> >   various people.
> >
> >   I find it really intresting reading. Anyone else out there read this?
>
>I read as much as I could stomach.  It is a carefully veiled lesson in
>Rosicrucianism, if you know what you are reading.  I am curious as to what
>parts of it you found so impressive.
>
>Mike
>

I thought I said what I was impressed with. I have now read some of the
writings refered to in the book. There is much there that he did not
even get to. As far as it being "a carefully veiled lesson in
Rosicrucianism" I have to disagree. He states that the "Brotherhoods"
promote social decay and war. I don't believe a Rosicrucian member would
give lessons to discredit themselves. Maybe you should have finished
the first chapter before making such a claim.I do know a bit about
the Rosicrucian order myself. I think I know what I am reading.

I don't claim to believe all stated in the book but I do think the book
is "Thought Provoking". There is a lot of reading available about
possible visitations starting since the dawn of man. This is what I
think is intresting.


--
=========================================================================
            All poetry posted is Copyright protected.
Denise Solis - Amdahl Corp.                     dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com
=========================================================================

Article: 1050 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Observer Left without me !!
Message-ID: <1991Jun30.164804.6856@bilver.uucp>
Date: 30 Jun 91 16:48:04 GMT
References: <1991Jun6.181521.18082@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> <5662@ztivax.UUCP>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 52
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1050 sci.space:19076

In article <5662@ztivax.UUCP> sof3@ztivax.UUCP (Walter Meyer) writes:
>carlos@beowulf.JPL.NASA.GOV (Carlos Carrion) writes:
>} jenkins@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Steve Jenkins) writes:
>} >dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:
>} >>...taken  by Viking 1 in 1976.  Hoagland believes the Mars  observer
>} >>spacecraft  was  deployed  by the  Space  Shuttle  "Atlantis"  on
>} >>mission STS-38.
>} >
>} >Wow!  I guess we better get busy with the Mars Observer telemetry
>} >system.  It's not scheduled for ground testing until later this year.
>} >
>} Wait Up!!  I've only just released the Mars Orbit Insertion
>} Sequence to the Flight Team, and MO has been launched already (and
>} by the Shuttle!) ??
>
>Carlos!  Steve!  Like dudes, get it together!  Don Allen is an obvious
>genius who REALLY knows these things.  I mean, we must have been out
>to lunch regarding Phobos, right!?!
>
>So, maybe JPL could save a whole lot of money by hiring Don Allen to
>contact the aliens and just TELL us all about the other planets.  Then
>we could just go to the beach...
>
>I was thinking about hacking TASS to support author kill like RN, but
>on second thought, with dona in this group I don't need the NatEnq
>for comedy!
>
>David Smyth
>Object X Guru
>Reliable email address coming soon!

David,

You're a funny guy :-)

I don't write these articles, but I do forward them around. In the
BEST tradition of man"kind"; it's "shoot the messenger".

Coupla questions for you:

1). What is the newest buzz on "NewJerusalem" (Hint: Project SETI)
2). What "object" did the Soviets capture on film,just BEFORE Phobos 2
had it's 'problems'?

G'day
Don

--
-* Don Allen *-  InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP  // Amiga..for the rest of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona      0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order"

Article: 1051 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INFO: How to join with aliens
Message-ID: <1991Jun30.160046.5246@bilver.uucp>
Date: 30 Jun 91 16:00:46 GMT
References: <91174.152715SML108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 36

In article <91174.152715SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> SML108@psuvm.psu.edu (Scott the Great) writes:
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>This information may be vital to your continued survival.  With the approach
>of the 7-11, the truth must be known before it is too late.  We are not
>alone!  They are watching me at this very minute.  MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY!
>
>As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups
>exclusively because I am being pursued by the men in black, donations
>should be sent as often as possible!
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>The following text comes from the MUFFINHEAD BS (1-555-UFO-REAL):

[ Mucho deleted ]

Har Har Har..That was certainly creative. :-)
>--
>-* Duh Alien *-  InterNet: donut@dunkin.com  // CBM-2000..for the rest of us.
>USnail: 3rd Cluster, Spiral Arm, Earth    \X//  Why use anything else?  >:^)
>UUCP: ..uunet!uufo!mothership!me                0110 0110 0110 Just say BEEP!
>Illuminati < Randi|Consumer's Union|PTA|YMCA|USDA|Mr. Ed > WAR = PEACE

ROTF (that's Rolling on the floor)..

I sure hope your major is in advertising. :^_)

Don


--
-* Don Allen *-  InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP  // Amiga..for the rest of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona      0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order"

Article: 1052 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs!
From: woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Chris Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Message-ID: <1991Jul02.024831.9870@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Date: 2 Jul 91 02:48:31 GMT
References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <1991Jun21.082452.6546@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>
Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU
Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept.
Lines: 64
Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu

In article <1991Jun21.082452.6546@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> rxxgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Rey Evans) writes:

>>  OK, IMAGINE THIS: Aliens come upon this tiny developing planet called
>>Earth a few thousand years ago. The inhabitants on the planet have no way
>>of communicating with aliens through radio transmitions so rather than wait
>>a few thousand years to send radio transmitions, they constructed a huge
>>face on the nearest planet outward from our own. Perhaps there is no real
>>'messages' behind the face, maybe all they wanted to do is let us know that
>>intelligent life does exist elsewhere but they're not trying to tell us
>>anything just yet. If they were to build a city like structure on the face
>>of Mars, that would be misleading and might cause us to errorneously believe
>>that their civilization was located at some time on Mars. A face however
>>would be perfect! For most people, when they think of intelligent life forms
>>they immediately think of humans or humanoid beings, so what better way would
>>there be than to construct a face on a neighboring planet. It has no message
>>other than to tell us that other beings know of our existance.
>
>>  A face also can stand the test of time. In the thousands of years that it
>>would take for us to get to the point that we are at now, their alien race
>>might have become extinct therefore they would then be unable to send radio
>>transmittions... they may have anticipated this and prepared for the worst.
>>A solid humanoid face would likely exist long enough for us to find it though
>>and realize that we have been watched for quite some time.
>>
>>  Also, a face constructed on a neighboring planet would ensure that we would
>>only begin to know about them when we are ready to except their existance.
>>We have the technological capability now to observe the face on Mars, if we
>>were to know of the existance of an alien race before we achieved our
>>current level of technology, then it may have affected our technological
>>evolution.
>
>>  I feel a face structure on Mars would be perfect for that type of
>>communication.
>
>>--
>>+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
>>| Chris Wood                |  "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
>>| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu  |                                   -unknown   |
>>+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Oh dear oh dear oh dear...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>How boring can life on earth be....totally wierd man.
>Where can I get some of that shit you're smoking ???
>
>--

  I just offered this person my view on one possible scenario. In my opinion
it is the best explaination of WHY a face may exist if it was created by
intelligent life.
  And quite frankly, I resent your comments. It really pisses me off when
people make comments on a subject without contributing towards getting to
the truth behind that subject. Instead of making statements erroneously
implying that I smoke 'shit', perhaps you could contribute some facts or
opinions on this matter to help us understand it better (whether it is a
humanoid face structure, or something that just resembles it). Attempts
at ridicule are not only wasteful, but disrespectful.


--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Chris Wood                |  "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu  |                                   -unknown   |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+


Article: 1053 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs!
From: woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Chris Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Mars face.
Message-ID: <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Date: 2 Jul 91 03:08:53 GMT
References: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk>
Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU
Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept.
Lines: 79
Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu

In article <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk> Ian Stirling <printf@cix.compulink.co.uk> writes:
>>For one thing, assuming this potential race is somewhat similar in
>>intelligence to us (for the sake of argument!), why would they have
>>allowed themselves to become extinct...indeed how would they have
>>known about their impending destruction? Either way, this is all
>>speculation, and I believe if an extraterrestrial race of even mild
>>intelligence wanted to leave us a message of ANY sort, I believe they
>>would do it in a way that would leave no doubt about their existence.
>>Could you imagine the time and expense they would have to endure
>>whilst making this so-called "face"? And then when we do find this
>>"Face" we don't quite know what to make of it! It's far to complex a
>>medium of communication to use. Why wouldn't they leave something a
>>little more profound, like maybe a model of a human skeleton,
>>complete with very visible structures. (ie structures that can be
>>seen from ANY direction). This is just too much imporbability for me,
>>I think we must just wait and see if anything else comes along which
>>offers a little more proof.
>>
>>Later, Max.
>>
>>_____________________________________________________________________________-
>
>>Themax BBS, experimental             |   themax.bison.mb.ca
>>                                     |
>>                                     |   8-1462 Pembina Hwy, Wpg., MB.
>>                                     |
>>                                     |
>>R3T 2C3       Canada                 |
>>
>Or maybe something simple,like a radio message on many frequencys
>going off every hundred years.
>Mail to either                            |PLEASE do not send large
>Printf%cix@ukc.ac.uk                      |(>20K)mail messages as
>Printf@cix.compulink.co                   |I get charged for them.
>Printf@cix.uucp                           |
>one of these may work                     |

  I have lost access to many of these articles the last week or so, so I
do not know if this article is in responce to mine... I'll assume it is.
I'm not saying that they would have become extinct, just that they may
have taken a precaution to ensure that a message to another intelligent
lifeform would exist in CASE they should become extinct. Maybe that does
not have anything to do with it at all, perhaps the purpose of the face
is just to ensure that we will know of other intelligent beings when we
were both technologicly capable of it and when we are emotionally ready for
it. We current have the technology. A face also provides an amount of doubt
which would ease us into the awareness of their existance. I really don't
think it would be wise to just march right into a civilization and
anounce your presence. It would be more wise to slowly increase awareness
of your existance and test them before you interact with them. If I were
in their place, I would want to slowly give them a few clues to our
existance and wait for them to become ready to accept us. Their 'readiness'
may be determined by how the general public reacts to the thought of
our presence if the roles were reveresed (whether the people fear us, welcome
us, or how well educated they are of us through rumours).
  Anyway, back to the possibility of their extinction... who knows why
they may have become extinct, perhaps they have been at war with other alien
races that are perhaps even more advanced than they are. Look at us, we still
possibly face extinction should a large scale nuclear war take place, a more
primitive race might think that we are beyond extinction because of all
our wonderful technology, but the truth is we very much have our limitations.
Sure, all of this is just speculation, but that's all we have in this
situation and sometimes that's what's needed to make progress.
  You mentioned that they could have left a message in the form of a model
of a human skeleton, which I admit would be a good idea, but what if that
were the situation? Then someone would likely come up with the argument
asking why they didn't simply leave a face? The point is is that if it was
created by intelligent life, there are a number of ways they COULD have done
it, and it makes no sence to keep coming up with arguments to conform to
our beliefs. You think a skeleton would be better suited, I think a face is
best suited... perhaps they (if 'they' exist) for some reason or another
decided that a face would be better... that's not saying that other methods
of communication weren't considered.

--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Chris Wood                |  "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu  |                                   -unknown   |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+


Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Area 51?
Message-ID: <jms.4805@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 2 Jul 91 15:59:52 GMT
References: <Jun.27.10.27.49.1991.7091@galaxy.rutgers.edu>
Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence
Lines: 34

Area 51 is a real installation, and people apparently have been seing
"things" flying around it at night.  Of course it's possible that it's just
some new variation on the various Stealth projects.  (I haven't been there
personally, so I don't know exactly *what* they're seeing.  The only video
I've seen just shows a light.  But there have sightings of things out
west which are apparently planes but are more advanced than any plane the
public knows about.)

As for Lazar, he can't produce a whole lot to verify his identity.  As he
said though, it looks like someone's trying to make him disappear.  The
last I heard, someone found a W-2 form that proved he worked for the
government, but that's about it.  He's a smart guy, but I don't know
whether his claims are true or not.

One thing I found interesting was a description in an transcript of an
interview that I read a while ago when his story was new.  (This "Current
Affair" was a re-run, and the story was a year or so old when it ran the
first time.  Las Vegas TV stations had a ball with it.)  The description
was of the sound and appearance of the UFO as it flew. It was almost
*exactly* like the description of the flight of T. T. Brown's flying discs
given by Moore in "The Philadelphia Experiment."  Of course, Brown's discs
couldn't fly on their own because they had to be connected to their power
source by a cable.  But my point is that it looks and sounds like the
Biefeld-Brown effect, which is a lot simpler than the mechanism Lazar says
they use.  (Of course, maybe the aliens have produced a very powerful
electrical generator based on element 115, but that's *not* what Lazar
says.  He says that element 115 generates a gravity wave and they amplify
and control that.)

--
  *  From the disk of: |  jms@vanth.uucp |  "Let's become
  Jim Shaffer, Jr. |  amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms  |   alive again."
  37 Brook Street |  uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms |
  Montgomery, PA 17752 |  72750.2335@compuserve.com |    --Yes


Article: 1056 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!dali.cs.montana.edu!milton!serval!luke.eecs.wsu.edu!dfrank
From: dfrank@luke.eecs.wsu.edu (Duane D. Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Summary: I've said this before...
Message-ID: <1991Jul2.180602.13939@serval.net.wsu.edu>
Date: 2 Jul 91 18:06:02 GMT
References: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk> <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Sender: news@serval.net.wsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Washington State University
Lines: 16


I've said this before on this newsgroup, and it looks like it's time to
interject it again.  Why can't the face on Mars be a natural rock formation?
There are at least a dozen rock formations on earth that can pass as human
faces from the right angle.  Why can't it just be luck that we happened to
get a picture of the right patch of ground where this rock formation is?
Why not spend multi-billion dollars and send a probe to check the thing out,
land on the forehead and walk around or something?  Who knows, maybe there
is a roc formation here on earth that is quite large that looks like a
martian perhaps?  In any event, I think that what is being seen on Mars is
a coincidentally shaped piece of rock.
--
Just another silly signature file by Chet
dfrank@cs2.cs.wsu.edu, dfrank@yoda.UUCP, 22414843@WSUVM1.BITNET
And others
              (References available upon request)


Article: 1057 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!cornell!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!wt0b+
From: wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Message-ID: <UcQ8G2i00WAuQN6lYC@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: 2 Jul 91 13:49:54 GMT
References: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk>,
<1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>

It's amazing how much people can create from so little.

-Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]


Article: 1063 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Book To Read!
Message-ID: <71935.28715AB9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 3 Jul 91 04:35:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO
Lines: 53


 > From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis)
 > Date: 1 Jul 91 15:47:33 GMT
 > Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
 > Message-ID: <080w02jo090O01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
 > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
 >
 > I thought I said what I was impressed with. I have now read some of the
 > writings refered to in the book. There is much there that he did not
 > even get to. As far as it being "a carefully veiled lesson in
 > Rosicrucianism" I have to disagree. He states that the "Brotherhoods"
 > promote social decay and war. I don't believe a Rosicrucian member would
 > give lessons to discredit themselves. Maybe you should have finished
 > the first chapter before making such a claim.I do know a bit about
 > the Rosicrucian order myself. I think I know what I am reading.

Forgive my insensitivity by not noticing where you are located, and that you are probably
involved with the Rosicrucians.  However, I must disagree.  The book is about
the evolution of the Rosy Cross, of which I know a great deal about.  It is
one of my specialties, researching various belief systems and their roots.
BTW, notice where the book is published -- San Jose, California.  However,
this is not really the point, and I should have made it more clear with my
last posting.  I object to yet another author filling several hundred pages
with carefully veiled religious material and theory, all the while holding it
out as fact.  This, in my opinion, is no better than Von Daniken's writing
about the ancient astronauts.  I have read Sitchin's work as well and continue
to find this pattern emerging among these type authors -- forcing a poorly
drawn hypothesis into archaeological findings that elude that we are the
product of alien cultivation.  Although this may prove to be true someday, it
is nothing more than a weak argument.  I find it fascinating that after
several hundred years of discovery that we have never found any proof to
support that any type of advanced civilization cross-bred us, not even an
artifact!  Although we have found sufficient evidence that while some of the
ancient's methods appeared to be advanced for their time, their tools and
intellect were not evolved enough to even begin to attack the problem of space
flight, much less flight.  I say to these folks such as Bramley and Sitchin,
"leave science science and pseudo-science at home." :-)

 > I don't claim to believe all stated in the book but I do think the book
 > is "Thought Provoking". There is a lot of reading available about
 > possible visitations starting since the dawn of man. This is what I
 > think is intresting.

If you want thought provoking, try the Apocrypha and Pseudopigrapha of the Old
Testament edited by Charlesworth.  A very brilliant scholarly work, and one
that really provokes thought.

Mike

-- 
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG


Article: 1065 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!unido!mpirbn!p581mao
From: p581mao@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Martin Ott)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Mars face discussion
Message-ID: <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>
Date: 3 Jul 91 14:53:57 GMT
Reply-To: p581mao@mpirbn.UUCP (Martin Ott)
Distribution: alt
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut fuer Radioastronomie, Bonn
Lines: 22


Hello there,

could someone please explain to me the `sense` of this discussion.

To me and most people I know it is obvious that this `face`-stone
was modeled by wind and sand-storms. The appearance of the
stone was due to additional light effects. As I saw lots of
`mesa`-mountains last week in the southwest of USA, I never had the idea
that they probably were shaped by our `ancestors` from other planets.

The face-stone photographed 1 hour later would probably look
as any other stone up there.

regards
Martin

--
 )    -----------------------                 
 (    | Martin Ott ;  p581mao@c1a.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de      (internet)
 _ /  |"Reach a conclusion, then twist the evidence to fit!"(Asimov,Found.V,442)
 U/   |Am Anfang war das Wort ...   ... am Ende nur noch Eisensechsundfuenfzig !


Article: 1068 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham
From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face discussion
Message-ID: <1991Jul3.165723.7741@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 3 Jul 91 16:46:16 GMT
References: <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>
Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Distribution: alt
Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana
Lines: 32
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>, p581mao@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Martin Ott) writes...
>
>To me and most people I know it is obvious that this `face`-stone

How is it "obvious"?

>was modeled by wind and sand-storms. The appearance of the
>stone was due to additional light effects.

That's what some armchair skeptics claim, but I believe that has
been shown NOT to be the case with the so-called "face".

>
>The face-stone photographed 1 hour later would probably look
>as any other stone up there.

Nope.  See above.

It is very likely that it is just a pile of rocks (actually this is
true regardless :-), but until we go back and take a closer look, further
discussion is nothing more than rhetoric.

Jim

         -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
                          Neither do they speak for me.