Questions about PROTECTION part seven

 ------------------------------------------

--
-* Don Allen *-  InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP  // Amiga..for the best of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona      0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order"


Article: 1095 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!am.dsir.govt.nz!marcamd!mercury!kcbbs!kc
From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ROSWELL
Message-ID: <1991Jul5.184558.6990@kcbbs.gen.nz>
Date: 5 Jul 91 18:45:58 GMT
Lines: 21
Organisation: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

--------Has anyone read the new book about The Roswell Incident by the
bod on CNN Larry King on July 2 that claims the old explanation that
the crashed object was a radar target (which Phillip Klass on Larry
King said he thought it was) is bogus that it was just the cover the
military gave the curious & the debris went from the crash site in Corona
NM 75 miles NW of Roswell on a B29 to Wright Patterson AFB which includes
alien bodies & thier remain under top security (maybe even unto the
Defense Secretary himself).

Asto why all has not been revealed the author said orginally the military
at 1st didnt know what to make of it & then later after studying reports
etc such as a 1961 Burroughs Institute study for NASA concluded the
public wasnt ready to be told all (or it seems anything) I wonder if
theystudied only the general govt public as if was a true reflection
of public sentiment it seems the times they really are a changing:Maybe

****************************
ARE THOSE ETOI SPACESHIPS***
REALLY SHY OR ARE THEY JUST*
WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY*
DEAL************************


Article: 1096 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!inqmind!themax!system
From: system@themax.bison.mb.ca (Max Vernon)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Message-ID: <3RVi51w164w@themax.bison.mb.ca>
Date: 3 Jul 91 18:56:01 GMT
References: <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Organization: The Max BBS, private!
Lines: 81

Chris Wood Writes.....

>   I have lost access to many of these articles the last week or so, so I
> do not know if this article is in responce to mine... I'll assume it is.
> I'm not saying that they would have become extinct, just that they may
> have taken a precaution to ensure that a message to another intelligent
> lifeform would exist in CASE they should become extinct. Maybe that does
> not have anything to do with it at all, perhaps the purpose of the face
> is just to ensure that we will know of other intelligent beings when we
> were both technologicly capable of it and when we are emotionally ready for
> it. We current have the technology. A face also provides an amount of doubt
> which would ease us into the awareness of their existance. I really don't
> think it would be wise to just march right into a civilization and
> anounce your presence. It would be more wise to slowly increase awareness
> of your existance and test them before you interact with them. If I were
> in their place, I would want to slowly give them a few clues to our
> existance and wait for them to become ready to accept us. Their 'readiness'
> may be determined by how the general public reacts to the thought of
> our presence if the roles were reveresed (whether the people fear us, welcome
> us, or how well educated they are of us through rumours).

I can't speak for anyone else but as far as I am concerned I would much
prefer to know just exactly where, when, why and for how long a prospective
alien race has known about my existence.  In order to be at all fair to both
parties the relationship must be completely open.  If we found out through
our own ability that some extraterrestrial has been looking in on us for a
millenium but we have never known about it before, we would be much more
likely to suspect bad intentions purely because of human fear of the
unknown.  Look at what's happening right here on our own world...with USSR
now becoming a freer and more western type culture the west is begining to
trust the USSR, and therefore our relationship is blosoming at a far faster
rate than ever before!  The same applies to any ET's out there!

>   Anyway, back to the possibility of their extinction... who knows why
> they may have become extinct, perhaps they have been at war with other alien
> races that are perhaps even more advanced than they are. Look at us, we still
> possibly face extinction should a large scale nuclear war take place, a more
> primitive race might think that we are beyond extinction because of all
> our wonderful technology, but the truth is we very much have our limitations.
> Sure, all of this is just speculation, but that's all we have in this
> situation and sometimes that's what's needed to make progress.
>   You mentioned that they could have left a message in the form of a model
> of a human skeleton, which I admit would be a good idea, but what if that
> were the situation? Then someone would likely come up with the argument
> asking why they didn't simply leave a face? The point is is that if it was
> created by intelligent life, there are a number of ways they COULD have done
> it, and it makes no sence to keep coming up with arguments to conform to
> our beliefs. You think a skeleton would be better suited, I think a face is
> best suited... perhaps they (if 'they' exist) for some reason or another
> decided that a face would be better... that's not saying that other methods
> of communication weren't considered.
>
Ok...I can see your point about face or skeleton, skeleton or face, but what
I am saying is why leave something so bewildering?  Does this type of
discussion really better our chances of making communication with another
race?  Or wouldn't it be better to setup the communication first then start
talking about whether or not to use it.  I mean communication is and should
always be a "two way street".   Another good explanation for the face is it
could be just something thrown in to send us of on a wild goose chase....AH
I know what...have you Zeta Greys been screwing with the surface of mars
again???  dammit!

> --
> +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
> | Chris Wood                |  "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
> | woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu  |                                   -unknown   |
> +---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+

                                 ^^^^  that is probably not unknown, just
another ploy thought up by...MY GOD  Chris Woods must be a Zeta Grey Himself
and he is really planning an attack on society next sunday!  OH NO!!!

Just kidding Chris...although that saying is very interesting!  :-)

later!

_____________________________________________________________________________
The Max BBS, private!
Internet Email:system@themax.bison.mb.ca
Combat Dogmatism, Whether of the Right or the Left.
_____________________________________________________________________________


Article: 1097 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!ucdavis!csusac!cindy!fish
From: fish@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kevin Haddock)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face discussion
Summary: just joined, have info
Keywords: erosion NASA canals Mars pyramids
Message-ID: <1991Jul05.035221.5123@ecst.csuchico.edu>
Date: 5 Jul 91 03:52:21 GMT
References: <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>
Sender: news@ecst.csuchico.edu (no news is good news)
Distribution: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: California State University, Chico
Lines: 30
Nntp-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> p581mao@mpirbn.UUCP (Martin Ott) writes:
>
>was modeled by wind and sand-storms. The appearance of the
>stone was due to additional light effects. As I saw lots of
>`mesa`-mountains last week in the southwest of USA, I never had the idea
>that they probably were shaped by our `ancestors` from other planets.
>
>The face-stone photographed 1 hour later would probably look
>as any other stone up there.
>
>regards
>Martin
I just started following this group so I wanted to ask first, I have some
info relating to why some of the experts don't think the above is the case
and to some unusual statements from NASA (if not comical) about why they
don't want to expore it furthur.  Also I don't know if it was mentioned before
but there also appear to be pyramids and some kind of round structure
that could appear to be a trade center or ampatheater (there also are some
geometrically shaped lines around this structure giving it the appearance
of being some center of activity with possibly roads or paths leading to it).

Another interesting point are the early (1700-1800's) observations of Mars
where there appeared to be movement of the canals (like possibly they were
being re-engineered on the fly).  Early observers speculated that there
was a culture on Mars that was somehow losing it's water and working
feverently to put what little was left to good use.

I know this is all HIGHLY speculative but what the heck!

(also you can hold your flames, and I hope they burn your hands!)


Article: 1099 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!j0nez
From: j0nez@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (John William Bowman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Mars Face.
Message-ID: <13819@uwm.edu>
Date: 5 Jul 91 11:24:08 GMT
Sender: news@uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Lines: 10
Originator: j0nez@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

This thread just peaked my interest....  I (multitasking, of course),
just viewed my HAM copy (which is very good) of this pic, and it seems
to me that there might be something more than 'natural' occurring on
Mars (not_natural_,  as in wind storms, etc, of course) as far as this rock
formation is concerned.  If anyone is without this picture, please
mail me, and I'll send it to you.  It's worth the looksee.  If too many
requests, I'll upload it to an appropriate FTP site for downloading.
You would be informed, of course.

-John "Always watching the skies" Bowman


Article: 1102 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!linus!linus!mwvm.mitre.org!M14494
From: M14494@mwvm.mitre.org
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: crop circles again
Message-ID: <1991Jul5.152708.12507@linus.mitre.org>
Date: 5 Jul 91 15:21:25 GMT
Sender: news@linus.mitre.org (News Service)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Lines: 31
Nntp-Posting-Host: mwvm.mitre.org

A few weeks ago I heard a radio interview with the author of a new book on
the crop circles.  He (name escapes me) is a retired engineer who has been
investigating the circles for the past 10 years or so. Key points: nobody
knows what is causing them; they are getting much more numerious and complex;
no attempts at hoaxing have been successful; x-ray microscope examination
of the plants reveals changes in basic cell structure of affected plants;
incidences of power surges and tv camera burn-out within the circles have
been recorded.  This guy seems quite scientific in his outlook,  and mentioned
that on a night when they stayed up waiting for a circle to form, one did
form literally right under their noses, and they saw and heard nothing!  When
they saw the circle in the field below them at first light, it was a complete
surprise to them.  If any part of this is true, strange things are afoot... !
------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Xref: linus sci.skeptic:12390 alt.alien.visitors:986
Path: linus!linus!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov
From: shoup@netcom.COM (Richard Shoup)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: crop circles again
Keywords: crop circles
Message-ID: <1991Jul1.172640.8131@netcom.COM>
Date: 1 Jul 91 17:26:40 GMT
Organization: netcom
Lines: 7

Two quick questions:

1. Have there been any new interesting circles yet this summer?
How about some first-hand reports?  Any organized investigation?

2. Has anyone yet devised any technique for hoaxing the circles
which is convincing?  If so, what is it and do observers agree?

Article 1103 of alt.alien.visitors
From: ww10+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Conrad Wojciechowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Aliens Newsletter
Message-ID: <scR_l_S00Uh_01Ylo3@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Approximate-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 91 21:51:12 -0500
Lines: 42

   I am starting a newsletter/journal of encounters sightings etc.  Any
story or information, whether it is a personal account or not, will be
published. Fiction is allowed, but will be in a special section so as to
separate the truth from fantasy.  The author's name will be given credit
in the newsletter for their article.  Frequency of journals sent out
will be directly related to the number of articles received.  Pictures
can also be sent.  If you are interested in having your story, account
or information put in the newsletter or just want a subscription follow
these instructions. Subscriptions last one year.

1) Have your paper put in neat printing or have it typed.

2) Indicate whether or not the aritcle is non-fiction or fiction

3) Be sure to include your name, address, and telephone number. Telephone is
   optional

4) Include $15 for a subscription or $5 to only have an article published.
   Checks or money orders are preferred for your benefit, but cash will
be                                                       
   accepted.  Add $2 to each cost if out of the United States.

5) $5 for the first article and $2 for each additional article that is
sent in                 
    anytime in the future.

6) If you only want your article published you will be sent a copy of the
   journal your article is published in.

6) For example, if you want a subscription and your first article
published send               
   $20   

7) Send it to
   William C Wojciechowski
   5033 Forbes Avenue
   Pittsburgh PA 15213


6) If you have questions call 412-268-5355 after 5pm EST, send email, or write.
   Email is the fastest and most reliable.
     
Article: 1104 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!icdoc!ibmassc!rob
From: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Crop Circles in the UK
Keywords: Latest from the UK Vigils
Message-ID: <1991Jul05.143357.5345@aixssc.ibm.co.uk>
Date: 5 Jul 91 14:33:57 GMT
Sender: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan)
Followup-To: Robert Trevelyan ( CCCS member )
Organization: IBM AIX Systems Support Centre, UK.
Lines: 57

Using banks of expensive camera and infra-red equipment to keep a 24-hr
watch on a field below Morgan's Hill where a magnificent quadruple-ringed
Circle and a Celtic Cross appeared respectively on June 1 and July 5 1990,
a Team of crop watchers have witnessed something strange .

    In addition to the video equipment they have a powerful directional
microphone which digitally records all sound in the range 2 to 20000 Hz, i.e.
infra-sound, audible sound and some ultra-sound. The night of June 26/27 was
cloudy and rainy and looked most unpromising. At about 3 a.m. some mist was
in evidence and this appeared to be thickest right over the field being
observed. It was decided to keep the cameras and infra-red gear running
just in case it lifted and the directional microphone continued to record.

    At 5.45 a.m., an hour after dawn, the mist began to slowly clear. The
pall of mist over the field under observation was the last to dissipate and,
when it did, the cameramen could just see markings in the crop. They rushed
down the hill to seal off entry to the field in which they could now see
with binoculars a large dumb-bell pictogram. Close inspection showed no signs
of human entry or footsteps in the wet soil at entry points to the field.
A playback of the tapes from the directional microphone was found to be
completely blank at all recorded frequencies.

    One of the cameramen who was first into the dumb-bell walked a long way
along a tractor line to get to the the formation without damaging the
standing crop. His trousers were soaked by the wet crop and his boots covered
in mud. The circles were perfectly swirled with the plants bent but unbroken.
There was no sign of foot-steps or muddy trampling in the circles.

    At 6 p.m the previous evening a military helicopter had flown across and
hovered for a few minutes over the spot where the pictogram subsequently
formed. Whether or not this was coincidental we have no way of telling. There
are certainly rumours that the military have ways of detecting where and when
Circles will form.

    Dr Meaden and his 19 Japanese scientists also encamped on Morgan's Hill
were thought to have had that field under observation as well. But they are
not saying what they made of this cosmic conjuring trick. Dr M only ever says
"This entirely confirms my plasma vortex theory" whenever a new pictogram
appears. He has on the hill some radar device, and we hear a rumour that
this picked up some object the other night (not necessarliy the night of
the 26/27th) which was definitely not an aircraft. The cry went up "It's a
plasma vortex" and they all rushed to look for it. But nothing visible was
seen.

    What Dr M calls a plasma vortex is what most other people call a UFO.
This does not mean for a moment that it is necessarily a metallic spacecraft
flown by aliens as the tabloid newspapers and Hollywood would have us believe.
Nor for that that matter does calling it a plasma vortex mean that scientists
have the slightest idea what it is or where it comes from. Meaden has never
offered any equations, rotational velocities, or any credible explanation
for how the mythical plasma vortex is formed. He might just as well call it
a UFO like everyone else.

   No exact details of sizes of dimensions yet but I will be in-touch.
Otherwise the latest crop circles seem to be dumbbells ,as a weight training dumbbell , with rings ,paths and circles attached .They look remarkably like
insects as they have a paths leading from one of the circles at about
45 degrees with small circles at the end (antannae) .


Article: 1106 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!milton!sumax!polari!rwing!eskimo!nanook
From: nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Drive System & Navigation
Keywords: Power, Navigation
Message-ID: <804@eskimo.celestial.com>
Date: 5 Jul 91 19:41:29 GMT
Organization: ESKIMO NORTH (206) 367-3837 SEATTLE WA.
Lines: 27



     This is a call to all of those who might have had an abduction
experience (and remember it) or perhaps received information psychically.
(or if there are alien visitors out there reading this...)

     I am interested in the mechanical aspects of the crafts, the power
source, how the drive system works, is it capable of faster than light
travel and if so how this is achieved, and how navigation is handled.

     I am interested in any details you can provide, even if it's just
physical details of the inside or outside of the craft that might give
a clue or two as to how it works.

     I am interested in both how navigation to a particular destination
is handled, as well as collision avoidance, especially for faster-than-light
travel (assuming they >do< have the technology to make it possible).

     If you request confidentiality, I will keep your name, and even the
information if you wish, confidential.

     Any related information would be appreciated (how is the information
necessary to navigation stored, communicated, etc).

     Thank you in advance.

nanook@eskimo.celestial.com
Article 1107 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ysub!psuvm!cunyvm!i25lg
From: I25LG@CUNYVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MARS FACE -the Earth Connection
Message-ID: <91186.161406I25LG@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: 5 Jul 91 20:14:05 GMT
References: <1991Jun14.140729.25097@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
 <1991Jun17.142242.25594@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>
 <1991Jun19.205145.3383@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Lines: 7

Well, talking about nazca comes to mind what some peruvian proffesor
told  me ones. He was working on these lines for a long time. He came up
with the theory that those lines were a kind of calendar for those people.
They had one animal for a different season of the year. I hope this info
will interest you. I don't remember what his name was but, He was a very
well known person in the study of those lines in Peru.
                                                         Harold

Article: 2078 of alt.paranormal
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.stupidity,alt.flame
Subject: Re:  Advertising (was: Re: INFO: Application To Join C.A.U.S.)
Message-ID: <jms.4907@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 5 Jul 91 04:00:25 GMT
References: <1991Jun22.090530.8469@agora.rain.com> <HARKCOM.91Jul1154253@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp>
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence
Lines: 20
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1108 alt.paranormal:2078 alt.stupidity:2405 alt.flame:26628

OK gang, I've just picked up alt.alien.visitors so I missed most of the
Allen-vs-whoever flamage.  But from what I've seen, I just want to say that
if Mr. Allen wants to post information about joining CAUS, I certainly
agree with him that he's doing it as a SERVICE for INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES
and therefore it DOESN'T constitute the dreaded "use of the net for
commercial purposes."  Hell, we have comp.sys.amiga.announce and
comp.sys.amiga.reviews for just this sort of thing (albeit on a different
topic of course) and I've never heard anybody bitch about *those*
constituting commercial use of the net.  They're for doing just what Mr.
Allen was apparently doing -- informing the public that something exists
and giving them information on how to pursue it if they wish.

Followups to alt.flame, where bullshit like this argument belongs and where
I won't have to read it, or pay for it.

--
  *  From the disk of: |  jms@vanth.uucp |  "Let's become
  Jim Shaffer, Jr. |  amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms  |   alive again."
  37 Brook Street |  uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms |
  Montgomery, PA 17752 |  72750.2335@compuserve.com |    --Yes
Article: 1112 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!ijameson
From: ijameson@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Iain Jameson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Field Circles
Message-ID: <3955@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>
Date: 8 Jul 91 04:40:15 GMT
Sender: news@ucs.adelaide.edu.au
Reply-To: ijameson@adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au.oz.au (Iain Jameson)
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Adelaide, South Australia
Lines: 8
Nntp-Posting-Host: adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au


According to a news item I just heard, "Field Circles" have been
produced in the laboratory.
It was done in Japan using plasma fireballs (ionized air).

Of course this will have to be confirmed and duplicated.
But we all know enough about science to realise this.

Iain.

Article: 1114 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles in the UK
Keywords: Latest from the UK Vigils
Message-ID: <1991Jul8.030415.25874@bilver.uucp>
Date: 8 Jul 91 03:04:15 GMT
References: <1991Jul05.143357.5345@aixssc.ibm.co.uk>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 23

In article <1991Jul05.143357.5345@aixssc.ibm.co.uk> rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) writes:
>Using banks of expensive camera and infra-red equipment to keep a 24-hr
>watch on a field below Morgan's Hill where a magnificent quadruple-ringed
>Circle and a Celtic Cross appeared respectively on June 1 and July 5 1990,
>a Team of crop watchers have witnessed something strange .

[ Rest deleted ]

Thanks much for posting that, Robert :-)

BTW...In "Circular Evidence", there's some really beautiful plates of these
"plasma vortex" (coughh..ahem) circles.

Please keep any more reports coming in!

Don


--
-* Don Allen *-  InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP  // Amiga..for the best of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona      0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order"


Article: 1115 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars Face.
Message-ID: <1991Jul8.031032.25976@bilver.uucp>
Date: 8 Jul 91 03:10:32 GMT
References: <13819@uwm.edu>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 27

In article <13819@uwm.edu> j0nez@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (John William Bowman) writes:
>This thread just peaked my interest....  I (multitasking, of course),
>just viewed my HAM copy (which is very good) of this pic, and it seems
>to me that there might be something more than 'natural' occurring on
>Mars (not_natural_,  as in wind storms, etc, of course) as far as this rock
>formation is concerned.  If anyone is without this picture, please
>mail me, and I'll send it to you.  It's worth the looksee.  If too many
>requests, I'll upload it to an appropriate FTP site for downloading.
>You would be informed, of course.
>
>-John "Always watching the skies" Bowman

Thanks for the offer of uploading/FTP of the Mars Face pic, but is has
made it here as a uuencoded gif. I have kept the uuencoded original so
it could be re-posted again at a later time. I also have the HAM picture
of the file that I think you're alluding to. It's real nice. I will
also uuencode/uusplit this HAM and keep it for posting both here and
in alt.bin*.pic* as well.

Don


--
-* Don Allen *-  InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP  // Amiga..for the best of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona      0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order"


Article: 1117 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!icdoc!ibmassc!rob
From: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Crop Circles in the UK
Message-ID: <1991Jul08.091937.22497@aixssc.ibm.co.uk>
Date: 8 Jul 91 09:19:37 GMT
Sender: @aixssc.ibm.co.uk
Organization: AIX Systems Support Centre, UK.
Lines: 83
Originator: rob@eeyore.aixssc.uk.ibm.com

Dick,

I have been interested/involved in crop circles for about
two years and was very fortunate last year to find the first
pictogram in a field in Chilcomb , Winchester . This was the
first crop circle not be of the normal circle/ring form as it
had boxes and paths . Through this and my interest in the
phenomenon I have made aquaintances with the leading circle
investigators and even got a mention in a few books on the subject.
I am also a member of CPR ( Circles Phenomnon Research - Pat Delgado
and Colin Andrews ) and CCCS ( Centre for Crop Circle Studies ) .
I live in an area that is about 15 minutes from Winchester and
about 45 minutes from Silbury Hill in Wiltshire , these are the
most popular areas for crop circles and I have been in about
50 or so or them over the last year or two .

The team that witnessed the crop circle I previously mentioned
on Morgans Hill , Wiltshire was run by ex BBC Producer and now
Director of Circle Vision , circles PR company ? ,and a team
of cameramen . They are the same team that assisted Delgado and
Andrews on Operation Blackbird in 1990 , remmember the hoax.
Anyway currently in that area at the moment are three independant
watches arranged by Dr. Meaden ( The vortex man ) called Operation
Blue Hill , CCCS called Operation Sirius and a CPR watch called
Operation Nightingale .

I found out about this as I have a friend that is the Director of
field research for CCCS and he also works for the same company as I do.
As he lives in a different part of the UK than I do it allows us
to keep in touch of all areas of southern England . I also receive
information from visiting sites that are known circle areas and
in addition to that receive details via a circle network via the
mail . If you are interested in joining this let me know and I will
send you the address to write to .

This years formations seem to be based on a new formation which has
been termed "insectograms" as they have paths and circles that look
like antennae . I believe there has been about 100+ circles this
year to date but there has also been a great many hoaxes . A hoax
can be perpetrated as it is not dousable and is very often rough
at its edges . This is very much dependant on the crop it is
created in as barly created a rougher looking formation but if it
douses as well it point toward non-hoax. Hoaxed circles look and
feel like hoaxes as they are very rough , the crop is always broken
not layed down and happens when there are tramlines to the field,
the lines the tractors wheels create .

I visited the lecture given by Terence Meaden on Plasma Vortex
last year and totally agree with you that the guy is slightly
off the track where it comes to most crop circles. I do believe
that simple circles can be created by his plasma vortex theory
if there is a hill nearby and if the weather is correct for this but
as for this being the answer I think he is crazy . How can a
spiraling vortex of charged air/dust particles create boxes ,
paths or even rings , let alone triangles that were seen last year.

Anyway I have just received a note about a new crop circle
in the field where last years eighth of a mile pictogram appeared 
at Alton Barnes, Wiltshire . I will post details of this to the
news as soon as I have read it .

Be in touch , Robert

>
>Thanks for the great info.  Can you say who the team is and how you
>know about this?  How many crop circles have there been previously
>this season?  Any new shapes? 
>
>Plasma vortex, my arse.  This looks like something much more interesting.
>Please post any and all new info you can.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dick Shoup
>shoup@netcom.com
>
>


--
Robert Trevelyan UKnet: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk
AIX Communications VNET: TREVELR at BASVM2
Voice: +44-(0)256-56144
Article: 1119 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ukc!icdoc!ibmassc!rob
From: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Crop Circles ( screwed the last one up )
Message-ID: <1991Jul08.101556.15379@aixssc.ibm.co.uk>
Date: 8 Jul 91 10:15:56 GMT
Sender: @aixssc.ibm.co.uk
Organization: AIX Systems Support Centre, UK.
Lines: 63
Originator: rob@eeyore.aixssc.uk.ibm.com



   On Tuesday July 2 the main attraction of the Circle season
occurred just where it was expected at Alton Barnes, Wiltshire.
Within 200 yards of the position of last year's giant double
dumb-bell pictogram . This is of similar size to the huge pictogram
of 1990 .

    This new formation lies in a great expanse of green wheat .
The formation is about 120 yards long and consists of a large ringed
circle with long narrow passages running to a plain circle at one end
and a smaller ring, with a spur beyond, at the other. Two 15 ft circles,
like eyes, lie to one side of the central avenue level with the
midpoints of the connecting passages and equi- distant from them.
Already dozens of visitors were converging on the site to marvel at the
new wonder where so many people had caught circles fever in 1990.
Farmer Tim Carson is charging $1 entry and will probably exceed his
last year's take of an estimated $8000 (pounds sterling).

     Farmhand Malcolm Enery described how he had been woken by a loud
roaring noise at 1.30 a.m. that night. He thought at first that a
C-130 Hercules from RAF Lyneham was flying over at rooftop level,
but could see nothing through his window. Other residents of Alton Barnes
were woken by a similar roar. Only when mist over East Field had cleared
at 7 a.m. could the new pictogram be seen. It lies barely 800 yards
from the tiny village.

     Today (Friday 5-7-91 ) a further formation, a smaller dumb-bell
accompanied by several additional circles, has appeared in the same
field just within a few hundred yards. Again these circles were initially
shrouded by unseasonal mist. Something quite extraordinary appears to be
happening at Alton Barnes and this is quite possibly not unconnected with
the worldwide interest that was shown in the magnificent circles which
appeared there last year.

     Last Sunday a large new pictogram appeared at Newton St Loe just
two miles west of Bath. This greatly resembled the Alton Barnes
pictogram of 1990, and once more its appearance was accompanied by
strange lights seen in the sky and a roaring noise according to many
people in the outskirts of the city. I hope to try to talk to some of
these people and to piece together events surrounding this visitation.
Before this year only one small crop circle had ever been reported in
this area between Bristol and Bath.

     The Bath pictogram has a large asymmetric "key" and also the ringed
"signature circle" in exactly the same relative position as the Wiltshire
pictograms of last year. These distinctive features, and the fact that
"keys" or "claws" have been seen in two other smaller formations in Avon
and Somerset seems to show that the 1990 Wiltshire "circlemakers" have
moved west. Equally the large symmetrical pictograms now appearing in
Wiltshire closely resemble the style of those that appeared near
Winchester in Hampshire last year, only they are somewhat larger, and
only one has got "boxes". Again it looks as if the Hampshire circlemakers
moved west. As for Hampshire, the 1991 pictograms so far are all
"insectograms", immensely elaborate asymmetric formations with twin
"antennae" and a peculiar ladder-like feature with a variable number of
rungs at the opposite end. It has already been optimistically suggested
that the "rungs" might represent the protein molecules in the double
helix of DNA. Such is the articulateness of the new formations that
this kind of speculation is no longer viewed with ridicule.

I hope to visit this new one at Alton Barnes this week so will be in
touch about this and any more in the area .

Article: 1126 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re:  been visited?
Message-ID: <jms.4991@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 8 Jul 91 04:08:31 GMT
References: <8988@awdprime.UUCP> <1991Jul03.163719.27447@ariel.unm.edu>
Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence
Lines: 34

In article <1991Jul03.163719.27447@ariel.unm.edu> omega@triton.unm.edu (--==[ Charlie ]==--) writes:
>In article <8988@awdprime.UUCP> craigb@awdprime.austin.ibm.com writes:
>>
>> ..... by grays or
>> nords or whatever? ....
>
>Net readers:  I have been watching this group for a couple weeks
>now and I find it interesting .... but I still am not sure of some
>of your terminology .... what is a gray and what is a nord ....

A grey is a short grey alien of the type which most frequently abduct
people. They're often considered to be evil.  They're allegedly from one of
the planets orbiting Zeta Reticuli, and some people maintain that there are
two slightly different species of them -- a taller species with noses which
are in control, and a shorter species with no noses which work for
the taller ones.

A Nord(ic) or a Blond or a Tall is a benevolent alien which again is named
for its appearance.  I can't remember what planet they're from.  They've
been reported to be willing to reveal information about the Greys' plans
for mankind, but not to actually intervene on our behalf.  Some people say
there's an ongoing war between them and the Greys.  Sometimes the Nords are
channeled rather than physically manifesting themselves.

>Is there a type of "dictionary of alien terms" around anywhere ?

Not to the best of my knowledge, but we should start one!  A sort of FAQL
for this newsgroup.

--
  *  From the disk of: |  jms@vanth.uucp |  "Let's become
  Jim Shaffer, Jr. |  amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms  |   alive again."
  37 Brook Street |  uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms |
  Montgomery, PA 17752 |  72750.2335@compuserve.com |    --Yes

Article: 1133 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watcgl!gawheckm
From: gawheckm@watcgl.waterloo.edu (George Heckman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re:  been visited?
Message-ID: <1991Jul9.170407.28846@watcgl.waterloo.edu>
Date: 9 Jul 91 17:04:07 GMT
References: <8988@awdprime.UUCP> <1991Jul03.163719.27447@ariel.unm.edu> <jms.4991@vanth.UUCP>
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 32

jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:
>omega@triton.unm.edu (--==[ Charlie ]==--) writes:
>>
>>Net readers:  I have been watching this group for a couple weeks
>>now and I find it interesting .... but I still am not sure of some
>>of your terminology .... what is a gray and what is a nord ....
>
>A grey is a short grey alien of the type which most frequently abduct
>people. They're often considered to be evil.  They're allegedly from one of
>the planets orbiting Zeta Reticuli, and some people maintain that there are
>two slightly different species of them -- a taller species with noses which
>are in control, and a shorter species with no noses which work for
>the taller ones.

How can I identify a nose in control? Is it bristling with probes and
antennas? Does it have a bump where the control centre is hidden?

>A Nord(ic) or a Blond or a Tall is a benevolent alien which again is named
>for its appearance.  I can't remember what planet they're from.  They've
>been reported to be willing to reveal information about the Greys' plans
>for mankind, but not to actually intervene on our behalf.  Some people say
>there's an ongoing war between them and the Greys.  Sometimes the Nords are
>channeled rather than physically manifesting themselves.

The nords are disguised as a hockey team based in Quebec City. This
disguise is wearing thin, as only real earthlings can play hockey properly,
and the Nords' record is too lousy to result solely from terrestrial causes.
--
George A. Heckman                       "Relax. Don't worry.
Dept. of Computer Science                Have a homebrew!"
University of Waterloo                     -  Charlie Papazian, "The
Ontario, Canada, N2L 3G1                      Complete Joy of Home Brewing"

Article: 1136 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!apollo!mcn
From: mcn@apollo.hp.com (Michael McNulty)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Ed Walters
Keywords: On Tuesday July 2 the main attraction of the Circle season occurred  This new formation lies in a great expanse of green wheat . The formation   Farmhand Malcolm Enery described how he had been woken by a loud roaring   Today (Friday 5-7-9
Message-ID: <1991Jul9.191337.1024@apollo.hp.com>
Date: 9 Jul 91 19:13:37 GMT
References: <1991Jul08.100655.20929@aixssc.ibm.co.uk>
Sender: netnews@apollo.hp.com (USENET posting account)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA
Lines: 38
Nntp-Posting-Host: roddy.ch.apollo.hp.com


Hi,

I have been reading this newsgroup for a little while, but this is
my first posting to it.  I have a feeling that I may be bringing
up an already-discussed issue, but I'm still interested in it.  I
hope it doesn't bore anyone if it is repetitive.

What's the story with Ed Walters?  He's the guy who has taken about
40 really great pictures of what he claims are space crafts in Gulf
Breeze, Florida.  He, along with is wife Frances, wrote a book and
did the lecture and TV talk show circuits.  By the end of his book,
he was hinting that he has vague recollections of perhaps, maybe,
sort of having been abducted or in contact with aliens as a child
and that he was in contact with Budd Hopkins and had undergone
hypnosis.  He said that he wasn't ready to publicly discuss the
results of his hypnosis sessions yet, though.   I noticed in a
friend's either CUFO or MUFON magazine (whichever one of them was
sort of originally backing Ed for awhile), that he claimed to have
later discovered a crop circle in his neighborhood.  The last thing
I heard of him, he was defending himself against charges that models
of the crafts were found in his house after he moved.

My criticism (an odd one, I'll admit) is that his pictures are almost
TOO good.  It's just hard for me to believe that he got pictures this
good and that up close.  I have a feeling that if they were legit,
someone (AP, New York Times) would be paying a little more attention
to him.

What do most people think of him?  Is he respected or is he considered
a pretty good hoaxer who just hasn't been caught yet?  Or has he been
caught and I missed it?  My feeling is that he started this off as a
joke and it ballooned out of his control until he couldn't contain it
anymore and he had to go along with it or he'd look foolish. 

How is he looked upon by others?

Mike McNulty

From: JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Date: 9 Jul 91 20:15:33 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Message-ID: <91190.121533JOHNFW@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Lines: 4

I was watching last week and saw the information about the
organization called CAUS that prints articles about people's
experiences with UFO's but I did't get the address.  Will someone
plese let me know what it is?  Thanks.
Article: 1139 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru!tanus!00195
From: 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup
Message-ID: <316@jabaru.oz.au>
Date: 10 Jul 91 02:36:03 GMT
Sender: news@jabaru.oz.au
Organization: People-Net [tanus], Melbourne, Australia
Lines: 33


johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes:
>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to
>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened
>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real.
>
>The frustrating part for me is that all of the facts have been covered up.
>Just what is the truth?  What the f*** is going on?
>
>If a crash occured at Roswell, and aliens were recovered, then to me,
>this would be the most significant event that has occurred in all of
>human history.  Does anyone else agree with this viewpoint??

I would also have to agree that based on fact a craft did crash at Roswell
back in 1947.  There has been a lot of written information (third party)
detailing investigations regarding this incident.  A new book is about to be
released on the Roswell incident which discloses some fantastic facts about
the incident.  The authors have  spent a considerable amount of time
researching the incident and in light of the new evidence and information
contained in the book (providing it is correct) I am convinced that an alien
craft DID crash at Roswell.  Your viewpoint regarding an important event in
history is one I'm sure is held by many people who take an interest in this
subject.


As a follow on, I can only sit and wonder what information has been gained
from the research the US government would have conducted on the aliens and
their crashed ship.  What additional information could the US government be
withholding about further incidents of this type since 1947?

Brian

UUCP: {munnari}!jabaru!anthos!tanus!00195
INET: 00195@tanus.oz.au


Article: 1140 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!woodc
From: woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Chris Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: That Face on Mars!!!
Message-ID: <1991Jul10.110634.16810@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Date: 10 Jul 91 11:06:34 GMT
References: <KKORHON1.91Jul5141546@vipunen.hut.fi>
Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU
Distribution: alt
Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept.
Lines: 49
Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu

In article <KKORHON1.91Jul5141546@vipunen.hut.fi> kkorhon1@vipunen.hut.fi (Kimmo 'Kimbe' Korhonen) writes:
>
>I am just asking why!
>Why should that face be meant for us humans? (I mean as an attempt to
>communicate)
>Isn't it true that you Americans have huge faces sculptured in some
>mountain? (Presidential faces I mean)
>Maybe - just maybe - that face on Mars was made to honour some leader
>of an alien race! (If there exists or have existed one such alien race)
>
>
>Don't loose ya hope!!!
>--
>    ............................ ............................
>    :  Flow my tears,          : :  E-mail:                 :
>    :    said the policeman !  : :  kkorhon1@vipunen.hut.fi :
>    :..........................: :..........................:


  I would like to point out that all of the faces that have been carved into
stone (or whatever) on Earth are all facing a horizontal direction (as far
as I know), we have no 'faces' on Earth that face straight up. Everyone keeps
asking 'why they would communicate this way instead of with means that would
cause no doubt about their existance' and 'why they do not simply come forth
and make their precence known rather than hiding'. I have already given my
opinion about the 'why this... why that' type questions, but I'll post them
again briefly. As I said before, the so called 'face on Mars' might not have
any communicative value other than to simply state that 'we are here and we
know of your existance'. Why they might have chosen to put the structure on
Mars instead of the moon or other planets is unknown, you can go on and on
asking a whole series of 'WHY' questions, but that doesn't prove or disprove
anything, you can only speculate on things like this. Someone in the future
may ask 'why did they not put the statue of liberty, a symbol of freedom, in
their capital city of Washington D.C.?'. There are millions of 'why' questions
you could ask, you can't expect them all to conform to your idea of logic.
  Now as for why they would possibly remain hidden for so long. Face it, we
are a violent and unpredictable race. Do you think it would be wise to just
suddenly show up and say "we're here" and expect to immediately have a
peacefull and benificial relationship? I think not. Besides, perhaps they
are performing some observation experiment with us, like rats in a maze,
seing how long it would take us to reach an adequate level of technology
to deal with our own problems (or something similar to that). If that's the
case, then obviously it would be unwise to get involved with us before we
have completed our task.
--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Chris Wood                |  "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu  |                                   -unknown   |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+


Article: 1141 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ed Walters
Message-ID: <3518@shodha.enet.dec.com>
Date: 10 Jul 91 13:32:22 GMT
Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 9


In article <1991Jul9.191337.1024@apollo.hp.com>, mcn@apollo.hp.com (Michael McNulty) writes...
>
>
>What's the story with Ed Walters?

        If this  is the same guy I saw a report on on TV a few weeks back
        he is a  phoney.    they  showed  the  model  he used to fake the
        photographs with and basically exposed the con he perpetrated.

Article: 1142 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!hsdndev!rutgers!orstcs!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!woodc
From: woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Chris Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Field Circles
Message-ID: <1991Jul10.123751.20342@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Date: 10 Jul 91 12:37:51 GMT
References: <3955@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>
Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU
Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept.
Lines: 27
Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu

In article <3955@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> ijameson@adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au.oz.au (Iain Jameson) writes:
>
>According to a news item I just heard, "Field Circles" have been
>produced in the laboratory.
>It was done in Japan using plasma fireballs (ionized air).
>
>Of course this will have to be confirmed and duplicated.
>But we all know enough about science to realise this.
>
>Iain.

  But does this mean that they are proven not to be caused by aliens? It
just shows one tool that the aliens may have used to create the crop
circles (if your information is correct). I have a hard time believing
that plasma balls forms naturally would create such complex designs unless
under the control of an intelligence. Besides I still find this hard to
believe since (if I am correct) plasma fireballs are formed when air
reaches temperatures of 40,000+ degrees fahrenheit. Such temperatures would
seems likely to cause fires or atleast cause scorch marks on the crops.
Also, plasma fireballs should register on infraread equipment that has
been set up to try to observe this phenonenon happening. This is not
intended as a flame.
--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Chris Wood                |  "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu  |                                   -unknown   |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+

Article: 1143 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce!monu0.cc.monash.edu.au!monu6!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!rxxgre
From: rxxgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Rey Evans)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: what about the last 44 years ?
Summary: more imfo req.
Keywords: ?
Message-ID: <1991Jul10.084842.24362@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>
Date: 10 Jul 91 08:48:42 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Lines: 12


It is with some interest I read about the capture (alledged) of
aliens and their craft in 1947 by the U.S. Govt., but that was
44 years ago ! Has nothing come to light since then ? No other
imformation ? No other CRASHES ? Someone MUST know more about this
incident if not any others...how can this still be such a secret ?
GRE.

--



  ___________________________________________________________________ 


Article: 1144 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!emory!att!cbnewsh!cbnewse!cbnewsd!cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com!marz
From: marz@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.zam)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: KLAS in Las Vegas...
Keywords: Video Tape, S-4, George Knapp
Message-ID: <1991Jul10.132620.225@cbfsb.att.com>
Date: 10 Jul 91 13:26:20 GMT
Sender: news@cbfsb.att.com
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 12

Has anyone got a video tape copy of the 9 part series that
George Knapp did for KLAS in Las Vegas, Nevada?  After reading
discussions on this news group, I called them for a copy.  They
said that they had to refuse, due to the overwhelming demand
for copies.  This 9 part series severely overloaded their ability
to dub copies.

How do "I" get a copy?  Can anybody help?

Thanks in advance,
Martin Zam
(201)564-2554


Article: 1148 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!manuel!coombs!joshua
From: joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: That Face on Mars!!!
Message-ID: <joshua.679169192@coombs>
Date: 10 Jul 91 18:06:32 GMT
References: <KKORHON1.91Jul5141546@vipunen.hut.fi> <1991Jul10.110634.16810@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Sender: news@newshost.anu.edu.au
Distribution: alt
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Lines: 34


If we are going to revive this here debate (and it sure seems like round 'n'
is about to begin if it is not already begun) here (just offhand) are the
possible explanations of the face (not in what I consider order of probability,
BTW):

a) it is not an intelligent artifact; it is merely
a1) a trick of light and shadow (BTW, there exist two viking photo-
    graphs of the face and surrounds from significantly different sun
    angles; it retains its faceness and there have been some interest-
    ing stereometric studies).
a2) carved out by erosive processes.

b) it is an intelligent artifact made as:
b1) a stonehenge type of astronomical observatory
b2) a 'Sentinal' type beacon
b3) something else entirely
   by
ba) native martians who:
ba1) just happen to have a strong resemblance to
     humans
ba2) just happened to make something that resembles
     a human for some unknown reason
ba3) eventually colonized earth

bb) ancient terran colonists of mars
bc) common ancestors of both terrans and martians, coming from
    somewhere else
bd) none of the above (see b2)
c) none of the above.

I personally lean towards b2/bb; your mileage may vary.

josh


Article: 1152 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!attcan!craig
From: craig@attcan.UUCP (Craig Campbell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: That Face on Mars!!!
Message-ID: <15481@vpk2.UUCP>
Date: 10 Jul 91 17:54:21 GMT
References: <KKORHON1.91Jul5141546@vipunen.hut.fi> <1991Jul10.110634.16810@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Reply-To: craig@vpk2.ATT.COM (Craig Campbell)
Distribution: alt
Organization: AT&T Canada Inc., Toronto
Lines: 13

In article <1991Jul10.110634.16810@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Chris Wood) writes:

>  I would like to point out that all of the faces that have been carved into
>stone (or whatever) on Earth are all facing a horizontal direction (as far
>as I know), we have no 'faces' on Earth that face straight up.

What about those pictograms scattered about?  You know, the bugs etched into
the desert or some such thing.  Of course there are those who argue that
aliens created these as well.

Go figure...

craig


Article: 1153 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!billy
From: billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup
Message-ID: <4480@anasaz.UUCP>
Date: 10 Jul 91 15:02:41 GMT
References: <316@jabaru.oz.au>
Reply-To: billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore)
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.
Lines: 13

In article <316@jabaru.oz.au> 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans) writes:
>
>johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes:
>>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to
>>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened
>>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real.

What evidence do you know about that supports the crashed UFO claim?  Aside
from flimsy hearsay statements, as far as I know, there has been nothing. We
know something happened in Roswell and that its a military secret, there's
ample proof of that.  But how do you get from military secret to UFO?

... stuff deleted ...


Article: 1154 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pmafire!
From: jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars Face.
Message-ID: <1991Jul10.215702.20586@pmafire.inel.gov>
Date: 10 Jul 91 21:57:02 GMT
Sender: J.B. Later
Distribution: na
Organization: WINCO
Lines: 10



I remember "someone" posting information regarding the
availability of large wall mount "posters" of the Mars Face
for sale????

Anybody know where I can get one of these?
Thanks in advance!

Jeff Later   jeffl@pmafire.inel.gov


Article: 1158 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!apple!applelink.Apple.com!showen
From: showen@applelink.Apple.com (Don Showen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Drive System & Navigation
Message-ID: <14572@goofy.Apple.COM>
Date: 10 Jul 91 16:38:05 GMT
References: <804@eskimo.celestial.com>
Sender: usenet@Apple.COM
Organization: Apple Computer
Lines: 148

Robert Dinse states
>     I am interested in the mechanical aspects of the crafts, the power
>source, how the drive system works, is it capable of faster than light
>travel and if so how this is achieved, and how navigation is handled.

I would like to introduce you to two of my favorite, favorite people.
Samjese, I would fly on her beamship any time and Billie Meier, I still
hope to make it to Switzerland to met him.  Samjese showed up in
Billies head around 1975 or 76 and said telepathically, come outside
to so and so location and I will show you my beamship. Well he did,
and she did. They had over 130 meeting, Billie took over 500 photos,
recorded sounds of the beamship, took movie footage and actually
got to fly on it a few times.  He was one armed so instead of sitting
there and taking notes while they were talking. Samjese had the
beamships computer record their conversations and the computer
would telepathically transmit them back to Meier when he was home
in front of the typewriter.  Samjese actually took the typewriter aboard
the beamship to see at what speed to have the computer
telepathically transmit the information.

So the below is reprinted with permission from the book Message
From the Pleiades by Wendelle Stevens it is from the Fourth Contact
Saturday, 15 February 1975 Copyrighted by Wendelle Stevens

Meier-  My next question concerns what you have already explained
to me in our first meeting, that Earth men would never be able to
travel the Universe if they did not invent another method of
propulsion. I can only imagine here that you mean a form of radiation
propulsion, a hyper-drive, so to speak. In my opinion that must treat
of a drive which in some way changes matter, likely beyond the
speed of light, and by that the beamships enter a hyper-space,  in
which space and time are paralyzed, as you already explained. I
assume that space and time in such a way collapsing into each other
are somehow completely dissolved.

Semjase-  26/ You take  honors  as a scientist.   27/ When we
consider then, that all your knowledge consists of autodidactical
work, it is phenomenal.  28/ You are completely right in your
assumption.  29/ For traveling through cosmic space, a drive is
necessary which surpasses the speed of light by millions of times.
30/ But this propulsion can only come into action when the speed of
light has already been reached. 31/ From that it follows that a further
drive is needed regulating normal speed up to that of light. 32/ This
means then that a beamship needs two drives, first the normal which
accelerates up to the speed of light, and then a second for the
hyperdrive, as you call it.  33/ A drive then, which generates a
million-fold, and billion-fold, the speed of light, thus the hyper-speed
by which hyper-space is penetrated. 34/ A space in which the mass
increases in relation to speed. 35/ So time and space collapse, and
they become zero time and zero space. 36/ This means time and
space cease to exist. 37/ And exactly by that, distances of numerous
lightyears are traversed in a fraction of a second, with no time lag.(2)

Meier-  Does this mean that for a beamship and its passengers, the
same time passes as on the home planet, or another star?

Semjase-  38/ Surely.    39/ When,  for example,  we  leave the
Pleiades and need about 7 hours to get to Earth, then on our own
planet, and on Earth,  7 hours pass.   40/ We need this long because
we first have to fly beyond the reach of the planets by normal
propulsion, and only far out in space can we convert to hyperspeed.
41/ Back from the hyperspace then, far outside your solar system,
we convert to normal drive. 42/ We are never allowed to enter
hyperspace too near to a planet...

Meier- This is very interesting, but how, essentially, does such a
hyper-drive work, and what happens to the normal drive?

Semjase-  50/ I am not allowed to give you closer details on this,
because if Earth scientists knew more details they would have
solved their drive problems already in a short time.   51/ This is not in
our cosmic interest, as the Earth human is still not free enough to fly
in cosmic space. 52/ But he will in a given time solve the problem
himself, which is not far off.   53/ I am only allowed to give so much of
this secret, many of your scientists already being on the right track
and working and conducting research on the necessary propulsions.
54/ I am only allowed to say this concerning propulsions; your
scientists are already working on lightemitting drives.   55/
Light-emitting drives work for normal propulsion,  and move the
beamships near planets and until they are a safe distance away.  56/
there (another drive) is activated when greater distances are to be
overcome. 57/ That is for the hyper-propulsion system, which
surpasses time and space.  58/ We call both of these propulsions by
other designations, but the sense is similar.  59/ We have another
language than Earth humans, and so I have to explain it to you in
terms which you understand.

Meier- That is evident, yet I do not understand how such a drive
functions.  I  understand the  emittance,  and  the meaning of
"tacheons", but I cannot imagine the actual process by which they
result in propulsion. Can you tell me more about this?

Semjase-  60/ No, I am not allowed to do so, because it might reveal
the secret of the whole drive, and also the generating and
harnessing of tacheons;  and the same with the emittance drive.

Meier- Thank you, that suffices, for I do not want to urge you. One
thing still interests me. If I consider right, then the form of the
beamship plays no decisive role, yet a discform would be the more
ideal because, aerodynamically, in an atmosphere,  it surely offers
the  least resistance, which would also be the case in water.

Semjase- 61/ Surely so,  you have struck a point.   62/ But taken in
all,  the form really plays little part.  63/ The disc-like form vouches
the least resistance, and also offers the largest surface,  to enable
the drives on them to be most effective.

Meier-  This is evident, but how is it possible for a beamship in the
gravity of a planet, or in its  atmosphere, to attain such great speed
without glowing, or the passengers succumbing to the huge
pressures?

Semjase-  64/ This is very easy to explain, and also no secret any
more to Earth humans, at least not the scientists; the beamship is
surrounded by a protection-beam-girdle, which allows every
interference  to glide away, without pushing. 65/  The same also
happens in the cosmos, which swarms with particles.   66/ So the
beam-protection screen functions to protect the ship against all
influences and resistances, with anything contacting the screen
becoming disintegrated or "flowed" away.  67/ All penetrating, or
resistance-offering things are simply diverted without evoking
pressure.  68/ A pressure would mean resistance and would inhibit
unlimited speed.   69/ But removal of the protecting screen initiates
another important effect which is of great importance to the
passengers.  70/ The glide-away effect of the beam-protection
screen also neutralizes the attractive force of a planet. 73/ ...which
results in the beamship not being subject to the gravity forces of the
planet.  74/ The gravity of a planet is, besides this, not always the
same, or of the same strength, owing to certain alternations which
will be discovered by your scientists in a reasonable time. 75/ The
beam-protective-screen diverts the gravity and attractive forces, and
the beamship in effect becomes a miniature planet which can travel
at nearly lightspeed through any atmosphere without risk.   76/ As the
gravity of a concerned planet does not influence the beamship, the
passengers feel normal and unburdened, as if they were on their
planet itself, always under the premise that the planetary gravity is in
accordance with their anatomical capabilities.   77/ In the beamship
itself, the gravity of course is tuned to the passengers and is
completely controllable. 78/ When passengers on spacecraft from
other worlds move in atmospheres alien to them, or on hostile
planets with unbearable gravity, they use suits and small
transportable  instruments  which generate  for  that creature,  the
necessary beam-protective-screen for their particular ship and
peculiar requirement.

Don Showen
Work 408-974-9544
Home 408-865-1768

Article: 1159 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!vela!dlcogswe
From: dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: been visited?
Message-ID: <7943@vela.acs.oakland.edu>
Date: 11 Jul 91 02:48:45 GMT
References: <8988@awdprime.UUCP> <1991Jul03.163719.27447@ariel.unm.edu> <jms.4991@vanth.UUCP> <1991Jul10.053754.20691@bilver.uucp>
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Lines: 30

dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:

[RE: a.a.v FAQ]

>That's an idea that I'm toying with myself. Frequently, people will ask:

>What are the greys? Where do they come from? What IS a "grey"? etc,ect..
>
>Hmmmmmm...I'll get to work on some parts..maybe you could work on something
>too?

Great idea!  Only, if Don writes it, I'm sure it will turn out to be
about 1700 lines! :-)

Seriously, I would VERY much welcome a FAQ *at least* defining some
terms used here and the roles some of this stuff plays in relation to
each other (that is, *IF* I believed any of this... ahem... :-).

Also, I'd like to see more articles on how one can "protect" oneself
from abductions, etc.  I saw some references to previous articles, but
joined in on the group to late to get the whole discussion.  Definitely
FAQ material.

>-* Don Allen *-  InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP  // Amiga..for the best of us.

>Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order"

Okay, Don, you've scared us enough! :-)
--
Dan Cogswell               dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu
Mostly H20 and whatever pizza and Diet Pepsi digest into

Article: 1160 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!att!pacbell.com!ucsd!hub!ucsbuxa!6600hubb
From: 6600hubb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Richard Hubbell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ufo encounter
Keywords: ufo encounter
Message-ID: <625@hub.ucsb.edu>
Date: 11 Jul 91 06:18:25 GMT
Sender: root@hub.ucsb.edu
Distribution: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 32

Did anyone see a show that had a piece on a ufo encounter in Texas?
I saw part of it tonite (7-10-91) I missed a portion of it when
signal went out from channel 6.  A woman, her mother, and a child
were driving when they saw some kind of craft.  They stopped and the
woman got out of the car to look at the ufo.  The encounter lasted about
ten minutes. The ufo was hovering the whole time.  The ufo left and
the woman got into the car as they were leaving a squadron of
helicopters approached (the older woman counted 23 helicopters) she
described them as the type with to rotors.  Approx. 6 hours later they
all became ill. The mother had the worst symptoms, followed by the
child and then the older woman.  According to the physician treating her
she suffered from radiation exposure.  Her skin was burned and she
eventually lost her hair.  A ufo researcher went to the site where
this occurred and verified a dark patch of the asphalt that had been
scarred by intense heat. I think his name was Schlouser(sp.) he also
was told later that some trucks had gone to the site and removed all
traces of the burnt asphalt and replaced it with new.
At first the Air Force acknowledged that something did
occur but then they went back on there original claim and denied that
anything happened.  I'd like to hear more about this incident if
anyone can add more info.  It happened 10 years ago in late 1980
in Texas(Dayton?). All three are still alive but the woman has been
diagnosed with cancer and the older woman and child still also
suffer from strange illnesses. 

RH

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"  University of California Santa Barbara       Richard Hubbell        "
"6600hubb@ -> Inet:ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu;Bitnet:ucsbuxa.bitnet;UUCP:ucsbuxa "
_______________________________________________________________________


Article 1170 of alt.alien.visitors:
From: p515dfi@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Daniel Fischer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Alien spacecraft to be displayed? [Forwarded from sci.astro]
Message-ID: <2172@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>
Date: 6 Aug 91 11:15:42 GMT
Reply-To: p515dfi@mpirbn.UUCP (Daniel Fischer)
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut fuer Radioastronomie, Bonn
Lines: 80

+From: huw@spls5.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (Huw Jonathan Rogers)
+Newsgroups: sci.astro
+Subject: Aliens from outer space...
Message-ID: <9108050414.AA08074@spls5.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp>
Date: 5 Aug 91 04:14:01 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: Murder Inc.


        I recently heard a Radio One program in the UK that contained
an interview with a leading proponent of the popular "US Government has
aliens locked up and is experimenting with their spaceplanes" conspiracy
theory. However this particular individual sounded very reasonable, did
not make any outrageous claims, and further had some interesting facts
to disclose. In particular he mentioned several verifiable facts which
I would like some followup on:

        Rockwell International and NASA were planning a *massive*
joint exhibition of space exploration this year (1991) but it was delayed
inexplicably until 1992. In the *official* prospectus for this exhibition,
one of the exhibits was clearly stated to be "an extraterrestrial space
craft". When asked about this by various individuals, all enquiries
were referred by NASA to the US DoD. An unnamed Pentagon spokesman speaking
off the record is meant to have indicated that they "had a number of such
vehicles to choose from..."
        The Pentagon also held a press conference to deal with press
inquiries on this matter - and refused to answer any questions. In fact
reporters later said that the Pentagon had asked most of the questions,
and they all pertained to "what would be the public reaction if...".

        The guy on the radio program referred extensively to two NASA
consultant engineers who claimed to have worked on alien spacecraft
studying propulsion systems for NASA - both had high level security
clearance in the States, were verifiably employed by NASA as senior
consultant engineers, and both were phoned in the States by the station
in a followup program (which I missed) the next day. The followup program
incidentally was only scheduled at the last minute due to record phone
calls from the public swamping Radio 1's 64 line switchboard...

        He also claimed that a NSA official had told him off the record
that the NSA was in "electronic communication" with at least eight
extraterrestrial sources of intelligent communication...

        He claimed that he possessed a recording of a telephone conversation
with an ex deputy director of the CIA (Casey's deputy as I recall), who
said that they (the CIA) had possession of quite a few alien artefacts,
including bodies, spacecraft and other miscellaneous bits and pieces.
He also verified on tape claims that several alien landings at US AFBs had
occured in the past, and in some cases were common knowledge amongst certain
groups of AFB personnel: "Hear what came in this morning, Joe?"...

        Various farmers in a certain area of the US (I forget the state
that was mentioned) regularly discovered bloodless (drained) cattle in
various stages of dismemberment in the early morning. These animals had
had certain glands, body parts, or body fluids surgically removed with a
precision beyond the capabilities of all but the most advanced surgical
laboratories. This problem was so bad that in one place a farmer was in
danger of going bust due to loss of cattle. One explanation advanced was
that
aliens were using these cattle as a convenient source of various rare
chemicals/tissues.

        The technology in the latest black projects that have progressed
to flight hardware - Aurora, Strike, etc. - seems to be well beyond the
capabilities of current commercial (defense/aerospace) technology. In
particular ablative control surfaces and reliable flight control at speeds
in excess of Mach 4 are characteristics of such craft, sightings of which
are widespread in Nevada along with reliable evidence (supersonic boom
disruption?) of such speeds.

        Any comments/hard info. on any of these assertions would be
much appreciated - please post as I am sure others are interested too.

        -Huw

[ H.J.Rogers  INTERNET: huw@ccs.mt.nec.co.jp                       ]
[    ,_,      JANET: huw%ccs.mt.nec.co.jp@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay       ]
[  :-(_)-o   "Either code it for speed, or don't code it at all."  ]
[   _} {_    "I'll be back..."                                     ]

[          THIS EMAIL ADDRESS ONLY VALID UNTIL 12/9/1991           ]

Article: 1177 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!woodc
From: woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Chris Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: That Face on Mars!!!
Message-ID: <1991Jul11.223743.1669@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Date: 11 Jul 91 22:37:43 GMT
References: <KKORHON1.91Jul5141546@vipunen.hut.fi> <1991Jul10.110634.16810@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <15481@vpk2.UUCP>
Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU
Distribution: alt
Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept.
Lines: 27
Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu

In article <15481@vpk2.UUCP> craig@vpk2.ATT.COM (Craig Campbell) writes:
>What about those pictograms scattered about?  You know, the bugs etched into
>the desert or some such thing.  Of course there are those who argue that
>aliens created these as well.
>
>Go figure...
>
>craig

  I meant structures which were built/carved to honor a leader, etc... All
these man made structures such as the carvings in Mount Rushmore, or statues
such as the Statue of Liberty are built facing horizontally. I do not agree
with what many people say about the designs of insects and animals drawn in
the ground. I rather than strictly being used as a type of a caledar, I
believe that these were also created to cummunicate with the 'gods' (in
other words, the aliens). Maybe they were just artwork for the 'gods', who
knows. Anyway, the point is is that designs created so that they are visible
best from above generally aren't created to honor an individual or thing.
If this face was created by an intelligence, then it is likely that it
wasn't created as a monument to one of their leaders (unless of course
they have heavy trafic in this part of the universe and decided to create
a sort of inter-galactic landmark for their tourists). :-)
--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Chris Wood                |  "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu  |                                   -unknown   |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+


Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup
Message-ID: <1991Jul11.235622.6087@bilver.uucp>
Date: 11 Jul 91 23:56:22 GMT
References: <316@jabaru.oz.au>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 40

In article <316@jabaru.oz.au> 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans) writes:
>
>johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes:
>>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to
>>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened
>>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real.
>>
>>The frustrating part for me is that all of the facts have been covered up.
>>Just what is the truth?  What the f*** is going on?
>>
>>If a crash occured at Roswell, and aliens were recovered, then to me,
>>this would be the most significant event that has occurred in all of
>>human history.  Does anyone else agree with this viewpoint??
>
>I would also have to agree that based on fact a craft did crash at Roswell
>back in 1947.  There has been a lot of written information (third party)
>detailing investigations regarding this incident.  A new book is about to be
>released on the Roswell incident which discloses some fantastic facts about
>the incident.  The authors have  spent a considerable amount of time
>researching the incident and in light of the new evidence and information
>contained in the book (providing it is correct) I am convinced that an alien
>craft DID crash at Roswell.  Your viewpoint regarding an important event in


There is a book out now called "UFO Crash At Roswell" and I would recommend
it _most highly_. The authors are Kevin Randle, Capt, USAF-Ret and Don
Schmitt. Published by AVON and available in paperback. This book is a MUST
READ for anyone interested in finding out all the details. The book names
PLENTY of names.

This book,in my opinion, is the ~smoking gun~ that exposes the Govt COVERUP.

Don


--
-* Don Allen *-  InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP  // Amiga..for the best of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona      0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order"
Article: 1179 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!systech!johnr
From: johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup
Message-ID: <999@systech.bjorn.COM>
Date: 12 Jul 91 00:56:55 GMT
References: <316@jabaru.oz.au> <4480@anasaz.UUCP>
Organization: Systech Corporation, San Diego
Lines: 46

In article <4480@anasaz.UUCP> billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) writes:
>>
>>johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes:
>>>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to
>>>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened
>>>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real.
>
>What evidence do you know about that supports the crashed UFO claim?  Aside
>from flimsy hearsay statements, as far as I know, there has been nothing. We
>know something happened in Roswell and that its a military secret, there's
>ample proof of that.  But how do you get from military secret to UFO?
>

Good point Bill.  You should know just as much as anyone I suppose.

So far, I'm about half way through Randle and Schmitt's Roswell book,
and I would say this:

     Based on what is presented in the book, take witness A's testimony +
     witness B's testimony + witness C's testimony + ......
     (you get the picture), I would conclude that an alien craft had crashed.

Can peoples' testimony that you read in a book be taken as evidence?

I tried to state that I'm no expert in UFO matters.  Of course I don't
have any direct evidence!  I would not pretend that I'm an expert, and
I surely wouldn't spout off that "I know for sure".

I guess what you're trying to do is question the manner in which I
reach my own personal conclusions.  I would say that Vallee's Confrontations
book and the mentioned Roswell book are honest attempts to present evidence
that UFO's are for real.  Should I discount the evidence presented in
the books just because I don't have any direct, physical proof?

And about those "flimsy hearsay statements":  Are you very politely stating
that each of the witnesses making statements in these books are liars?
Are you attempting to very subtly de-bunk these books, and the reputable
authors who wrote them?



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
John Reed                           {uunet,ucsd}!systech!johnr
Systech                             johnr%systech.uucp@ucsd
--------------------------------------------------------------


Path: ns-mx!uunet!wuarchive!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: About Roswell and the Govt. Coverup
Message-ID: <1991Jul12.000115.6189@bilver.uucp>
Date: 12 Jul 91 00:01:15 GMT
References: <316@jabaru.oz.au> <4480@anasaz.UUCP>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 35

In article <4480@anasaz.UUCP> billy@anasaz.UUCP (Bill Moore) writes:
>In article <316@jabaru.oz.au> 00195@tanus.oz.au (Brian Evans) writes:
>>
>>johnr@systech.bjorn.COM (John Reed) writes:
>>>I am not an expert in UFO-ology (or whatever it's called), but to
>>>me, as a layman, the evidence seems overwhelming that a crash happened
>>>at Roswell, and UFO's are definitely for real.
>
>What evidence do you know about that supports the crashed UFO claim?  Aside
>from flimsy hearsay statements, as far as I know, there has been nothing. We
>know something happened in Roswell and that its a military secret, there's
>ample proof of that.  But how do you get from military secret to UFO?
>
>... stuff deleted ...

Mr Moore..it is plenty obvious to me that you haven't got a bloody clue!

Go get some books and do your research!!

I would most heartily recommend the Randle/Schmitt book, "UFO Crash
at Roswell" that just came out in paperback and published by AVON
books.

Not to mention that Stanton Friedman has been also working on this
for years...

Don



--
-* Don Allen *-  InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP  // Amiga..for the best of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona      0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order"
Article: 1182 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!mips!sdd.hp.com!wuarchive!bcm!dino.qci.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu!skywalker
From: skywalker@dino.qci.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu (Timothy B. Reynolds)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ufo encounter
Keywords: ufo encounter
Message-ID: <6484@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
Date: 11 Jul 91 15:14:38 GMT
References: <625@hub.ucsb.edu>
Sender: usenet@bcm.tmc.edu
Distribution: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: X-Ray Crystallography / Howard Hughes Medical Institute
Lines: 46
Nntp-Posting-Host: dino.qci.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <625@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600hubb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Richard Hubbell) writes:
.>Did anyone see a show that had a piece on a ufo encounter in Texas?
.>I saw part of it tonite (7-10-91) I missed a portion of it when
.>signal went out from channel 6.  A woman, her mother, and a child
.>were driving when they saw some kind of craft.  They stopped and the
.>woman got out of the car to look at the ufo.  The encounter lasted about
.>ten minutes. The ufo was hovering the whole time.  The ufo left and
.>the woman got into the car as they were leaving a squadron of
.>helicopters approached (the older woman counted 23 helicopters) she
.>described them as the type with to rotors.  Approx. 6 hours later they
.>all became ill. The mother had the worst symptoms, followed by the
.>child and then the older woman.  According to the physician treating her
.>she suffered from radiation exposure.  Her skin was burned and she
.>eventually lost her hair.  A ufo researcher went to the site where
.>this occurred and verified a dark patch of the asphalt that had been
.>scarred by intense heat. I think his name was Schlouser(sp.) he also
.>was told later that some trucks had gone to the site and removed all
.>traces of the burnt asphalt and replaced it with new.
.> At first the Air Force acknowledged that something did
.>occur but then they went back on there original claim and denied that
.>anything happened.  I'd like to hear more about this incident if
.>anyone can add more info.  It happened 10 years ago in late 1980
.>in Texas(Dayton?). All three are still alive but the woman has been
.>diagnosed with cancer and the older woman and child still also
.>suffer from strange illnesses. 
.>
.>RH

We don't get much press about it here but it comes up every once and
a while. Both adults and suffering from severe medical problems
(cancer, leukemia), the child has shown no medical problems yet.
The government still say's nothing happened. The also claim they
never had that many helicopters in this part of Texas at any time.

My guess is they (the military) were moving a craft from one site
to another with a helicopter escort and were spotted or maybe they
were test flying it.

Tim


--
Disclaimer: My opinions are my own, not HHMI's or Baylor College of Medicine