Magazine Writers folder from the Nonfiction message board
Subject: Magazine writers folder archive
Author: lots of folks
Uploaded By: THopeB
Date: 9/8/1995
File: Magazine writers archive (329904 bytes)
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This is an archive of the Magazine Writers folder from the Nonfiction message board. The postings in this archive date from 12/3/94 to 2/16/95. There is a lot of solid information on freelance magazine writing; enjoy!
2/16/95 2:39:23 PM Opening ÒSystem Log 2/16/95Ó for recording.
Subj: Re:Galleys 94-12-03 02:11:41 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
BR: Simply ask for them. It's important that you see galleys at every stage.
Subj: Re:Book Producers/Packagers 94-12-03 09:56:08 EST
From: Don Hinkle
Posted on: America Online
Yeah, I did some work over a couple of years for a book packager. Had some problems. Was assigned to write a cookbook for kids; my wife and I worked on it. Had *no* editorial direction. We needed some decisions made fast. The packager was doing it for a regular publisher who was starting a line of kid's books. The packager called in a freelance editor to act as our editor on the project and she helped us work out the details with designer, etc., but she wasn't *really* The Editor. Anyway, we completed the package and submitted it and got some peculiar feedback from the publisher, then the publisher dropped the entire project - stopped doing kid's books. (NOT, I hope, just because of our book... but canceled the other pojects the packager was doing as well.) Left us hanging there with a book that had been designed to please this one publisher's requirements; we put out some queries to other publishers but never managed to sell it to anyone else.
Also, packagers generally pay less than if the publisher is paying directly, because the packager takes the cream off the top.
I've had other experiences too which, if you want, I can explore.
Only good side of it is: if you're needing paying work, this is a way to get it and get some credits.
Subj: Re:Book Producers/Packagers 94-12-03 09:59:46 EST
From: Don Hinkle
Posted on: America Online
Whoa, your experience with the packager sounds a lot like mine. Wonder if it was the same? ;^)
Subj: Re:Galleys 94-12-03 12:27:01 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
BR.
Most established magazines send out galleys. I've always found editors willing to discuss minor changes. After all, the point of using fact-checkers and galleys is to make the story as accurate as possible.
In the past when working for newspapers, I've always asked for edited story files to be copied back to me - even up against a tight deadline and even when I've been on the road.
Just mention - self deprecatingly - that you want to make sure your editor didn't misunderstand your prose. That way you don't appear to be questioning the editor's authority.
Make clear you only want to check that during the editing whirl there have been no changes causing a factual inaccuracy or giving some false impression or tone.
I think if you ask for galleys diplomatically using that rationale any responsible editor will be happy to send them along.
Subj: Re:Rogier's questions 94-12-03 12:57:13 EST
From: Wrtrs News
Posted on: America Online
Hiya. I did upload two sample copies of Freelance Success here, but people are having a hard time finding them, judging by e-mail msgs. They're both creatively titled something like "Freelance Success smpl issues," or whatever space would allow. They're in the Nonfiction Library here. Check lefthand column for upload dates of 10/21 (I think -- thereabouts, at least).
It's not $100 a year, it's $77 <g>. And thanks for subscribing, Rogier (and others here).
Judith Broadhurst
Editor and Publisher
Freelance Success, the newsletter for experienced journalists (and nonfiction writers)
Subj: Re:Galleys 94-12-03 13:02:56 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
Jimmor wrote:
<<Make clear you only want to check that during the editing whirl there have been no changes causing a factual inaccuracy or giving some false impression or tone.
I think if you ask for galleys diplomatically using that rationale any responsible editor will be happy to send them along.>>
That's exactly the tack I've taken with an editor at a national magazine. I was told that their editorial process doesn't allow time for this (editor's exact words). Considering the length of the piece (less than 1000 words), the fact that I e-mailed it to the editor in the first place, the fact that the editing will almost certainly take place on a computer, and the fact that it requires but the touch of a button to e-mail a final, edited version back to me, I am naturally having a hard time swallowing this explanation. In these days of e-mail and faxes, what kind of explanation is this?
I am about to tell the editor this, in the most tactful way I can, because the idea of something going out before the entire world (yep, this pub has world-wide distribution) with my name on it when I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT SAYS gives me nightmares.
If ANYBODY on this board has a clue as to why an editor would say this -- and how I can deal with it -- I'd appreciate the insight.
Bridget
Subj: Re: not the right writer 94-12-03 13:03:34 EST
From: Wrtrs News
Posted on: America Online
Hi, Steve. I've given story ideas to editors to assign to other writers too and, like you, they've usually been editors I've written for or have some kind of relationship with. But I only give them ideas for stories I don't want to do myself, for whatever reason. I've never understood how any writer has trouble coming up with ideas, because I have more on any given day than I could possibly pursue in a month (or with the rate that I send queries, which is almost zip, in a year).
jae
Subj: Re:End of year help 94-12-03 13:16:11 EST
From: Wrtrs News
Posted on: America Online
A far easier, faster and more useful way to get those magazine indexes (or indices, if that's correct) would be to search Magazine Database Plus on Prodigy or CompuServe or the Magazine Index in Knowledge Index on CompuServe. You can get the list of =everthing= a particular magazine has run in the past, say, two years in less than 5 minutes for less than 50 cents if they're in MagDB (about 140 are), and capture it to your hard disk to search, edit and refer to later. Good way to see patterns in their angles, content, etc. You can also do the same thing by subject or key word for the entire list of magazines.
jae
Subj: Re:Ed. Mtngs @ Bathroom Mirror? 94-12-03 13:19:47 EST
From: Wrtrs News
Posted on: America Online
It's also a tip that they have too many editors of the same sex <g>.
jae
Subj: Re:Conde Nast contract/non compe 94-12-03 13:33:19 EST
From: Wrtrs News
Posted on: America Online
Very glad to see you raised the question of CN's non-compete clause, Leah. It dumbfounds me that this one hasn't becoming a major issue, as much as the "throughout the universe" and "all things ever created now or in the future" clauses. I find that particular clause very scary and absolutely unacceptable. If a writer specializes at or, or even writes regularly on a particular topic, that would mean they couldn't work until 90 days after a CN mag had =published= their story, if interpreted literally! Surely, it wouldn't hold up in court. I don't know if it qualifies as "restraint of trade" or not, but it has the effect of potentially cutting off a writer's livelihood. Regardless of how much I wanted to write for the magazine in question, I'd have to turn that one down if they wouldn't strike it, and I hope you do.
jae
Subj: Re:Conde Nast contract/non compe 94-12-03 13:36:58 EST
From: Wrtrs News
Posted on: America Online
Here's the actual wording of the Conde Nast contract clause that Leah is referring to, folks:
8. LIMITED NON-COMPLETE: Author will not, until ninety (90) days after the on-sale date of the issue of the publication in which the Work first appears, write or publish, or cooperate in the publication of, in any form, an article, broadcast or other communication, or submit to an interview, on the same or a similar subject as the Work unless Author has received consent to do so by Publication.
jae
Subj: Re:Cosmobull's editor/writer 94-12-03 13:41:34 EST
From: Wrtrs News
Posted on: America Online
=If= the magazine's citations, abstracts and even full text are available in an online database on one of the major commercial services, such as CompuServe, I don't think there's any excuse anymore for not knowing whether they've published something on the topic you have in mind, as far back as their index goes. If it was two years ago, they might do it again, but you owe it to them and yourself not to waste time by not bothering to do a quick search of at =least= the last year's stories.
jae
Subj: Re:More contracts from Hell 94-12-03 13:47:20 EST
From: Wrtrs News
Posted on: America Online
Realistically, just how many times do you think you're likely to re-sell it in Australia anyway? As much of a soapboxer as I am on rights issues, I'd cash the check on this one. Of greater concern is not that you can't resell it in Australian ever without their permission, but that they're keeping you from re-selling it anywhere else in the world for 90 days after publication -- and publication could be months off, at that. That's worth fighting over.
jae
Subj: Re: Editor's Rantings 94-12-03 13:50:12 EST
From: SALECO
Posted on: America Online
It isn't just editors who like to make changes. I think it's worse in the corporate world. When I worked for the PR dept of a major financial institution we often had to have it cleared by a whole line-up of folks, from middle mgt to senior mgt. Each got his/her own copy to review. The middle managers especially all seemed to think they had to make a change--most of them unnecessary, some downright stupid--just to show they'd read it. Senior managers were too busy to screw things up--just made factual or policy changes, if any.
But here's what's interesting: As soon as I quit to open my own one-person communications agency, the multiple changes stopped. Seems my decision to leave the company lifted me way up in their eyes. I became an "expert" who shouldn't be second-guessed. I was exactly the same, wrote the same, etc. Others who stayed on in department continued to be edited like crazy.
Subj: Re:Galleys, Bridget 94-12-03 14:09:36 EST
From: MJ DC
Posted on: America Online
Bridget, while I can understand your frustration (as a writer, one who submits myself) I also see where this editor might have been coming from (editor myself, understand deadline crunch).
Our magazine, for example, is tiny, staff-wise, and many writers assume otherwise. Unfortunately, recently skyrocketing paper and printing costs have forced many publishers to cut costs...especially the large, national ones, I would assume. This often means a skeleton crew on board.
While I agree that e-mail should speed up the process (we don't use it for submissions, ourselves) it's those last-minute changes that take forever, especially when you multiply that time times the number of submissions you have. (Not just making last-minute changes on your piece, but on each and every one.) We also don't have the luxury of a lot of reading/editing time...it goes straight into production. And if the editor is like me, he/she may have too much to do at that stage (dealing with the printer, getting together mechanicals, coordinating ad film, getting approval from everyone in the office) without having to worry about accommodating the writer's changes. Editors wear a lot of different hats these days, at least at my office & others I know of.
Now, I usually do my best to fax the article back to the writer with a request to review for "errors or suggestions" and add that as I am on a very tight deadline, to please return it by X. I try, but sometimes the reasons outlined above get in my way. Perhaps it was the same for the editor you mention.
What I have found is once I have a good experience with a particular magazine & the editors there, it's crucial to hold on to them. The fact that a larger, helpful staff exists usually means the magazine is pretty profitable, and chances are you'll continue to be treated well. Can't say it's the case at my magazine, but it's not for lack of trying on the staff's part, I can assure you!
Subj: Re:Editors and Writers 94-12-03 14:42:21 EST
From: Cosmobull
Posted on: America Online
To me the real issues are here are professionalism and longterm relationships. As either an editor or a writer I am always looking beyond the assignment, hoping to hook up with somebody who can produce good material forever, and who will be professional (there's that word again) enough that our work will focus exclusively on the content of their ideas rather than the method or appropriateness of their execution.
Basically, no good editor wants to spend a lot of time and energy rewriting or restructuring the work of writers. It's what we get paid to do, but frankly, it's a drag. What you really want to do as an editor is have the ability to develop an editorial agenda and then have the luxury to create pieces that stick to your vision. The fun part is tossing ideas around, brainstorming, bullshitting--with writers who are plugged into stories and subjects that compel you. Again, its part of our job, but I can tell you any good editor would prefer that stories come in right so they can spend more of their time on the front end than the back.
That's the reason for full-time staffers--you have people who know what your publication is all about and who deliver the goods consistently. My problem as an editor with people who don't know the magazine is not limited to those who submit articles we've run before--it has to do with writers who just don't take the time to think issues like: who is the audience? what is the proper slant for a story? what is the significance of this story to the mission of the magazine?
By the same token, as a free-lancer you want an editor who "gets it" when you pitch a story (via whatever medium works)--somebody who knows that the best editor is the editor who edits least. Somebody who works carefully with you at the very beginning plan the story so there is little confusion about what you will write, someone who is flexible enough to understand that what you learn as you report may vary from what they believe (and thus the story will change), somebody who lets you take risks.
I guess what I'm saying is that maybe on the first date a bit of re-writing and tinkering by an editor is justifiable. But by the third or fourth go-round, if the two parties haven't created a relationship where the copy coming in resembles fairly closely the printed copy, then one of the two is doing something wrong.
Subj: Re:Rogier's q's, Freelance News 94-12-03 14:47:36 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
Just a testimonial from a happy customer. Jae's newsletter, Freelance Success, is very useful for veteran freelancers and the subscribers-only message section now set up on Compuserve is a good place to share tips, markets, etc.
Jim
Subj: Re:Galleys, Bridget 94-12-03 16:26:36 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
MJ DC writes that publishers are cutting costs and relying on skeleton crews and in the crunch of deadline, well-meaning editors simply may not have the opportunity to fax, e-mail or snail mail galleys to the many writers in the current issue.
And Bridget wonders how to get her editors to send her galleys. I'd use one word: Accuracy, accuracy, accuracy.
I'd suggest the publisher ought to be advised there may not be a better use of funds than paying editors to do issue galleys. As writers (and editors and publishers) there is no currency more valuable than our credibility. If readers do not trust us to deliver the "truth" and the facts as accurately as humanly possible, they will turn away. Passing galleys by a writer is the final - and vital - step in getting that information - the correct information - to the reader. Even the best editor may make a false assumption reading a story and insert an error. Even the best reporter may make an error only realized when seen later in those galleys.
It takes but a minute to hit "send" on a fax or e-mail or print for a
letter. If an editor makes clear that only changes for the sake of accuracy
are welcome, I don't see how it could possibly take that much time. And
consider the consequences. Fixing a factual error can at the least save the publication embarassment, possibly the loss of knowledgeable readers, and, at the most, the cost of very expensive libel suit.
A couple of years back I was stringing a pre-inaugural story for The
Washington Post's Sunday editions. Clinton's plane into Charlottesville
(where he started his buscapade from Monticello) was late, of course. And by the time I dictated my six-graph topper to the national desk we were hard against the metro edition deadline. No matter, my editor called me back at the pay phone five minutes later to read the copy to me as a double check. Turns out in the dictation we had transposed a few letters of the last name of some Joe Butthead who had driven all the way from Iowa or wherever and who
I'd quoted in the piece. Whether I dictated his name wrong the first time or she took it down wrong doesn't matter. And sure, it was a tiny error, likely to be discovered only by the dozen Post readers in Joe's Iowa hometown. But then it's those little details that add up to credibility of any publication.
I just can't see where a even a short-staffed magazine - hardly on a minute by minute deadline - has any excuse not to issue galleys.
Subj: Re:Galleys, again 94-12-03 16:55:04 EST
From: MJ DC
Posted on: America Online
I agree with you, Jimmor, and hopefully some publishers will listen to you. All I was trying to say is that some well-meaning editors unavoidably run into snags. Becuase of the way their publishers do things. Sometimes it depresses me that what it's come down to in publishing is simply profitibility, and getting it done rather than doing it well. Sad but true.
Unfortunately most of my contributors are not the quick-to-respond type. It's been my experience that they usually take the opportunity I give them for what should be error-checking to make revises, and that sometimes takes several approvals on their end. This happens regardless of the fact that I make it crystal clear what my deadlines are. Perhaps because we are a small trade publication they take advantage of that? That's another can of worms.
Hopefully I'm just in the minority and have the magazine from hell? I hope so. <g>
As to what you can do, Bridget, see that the galley approval is in the contract or make sure it's made clear up front that's what you require. Anyone who has asked me up front for any special treatment, whether it be to see page layout or anything, has gotten my full attention no matter how pressed for time I may be. Those who ask favors as an afterthought (sometimes the day we're going to press) do not.
Subj: More contracts from Hell 94-12-03 19:31:36 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Actually, Austrailian magazines are the *only* ones outside of the states which have contacted me. And I think for the very reason that certain mag houses are resistent to the notion of letting them publish their stuff: They don't have many stories of their own and rely on the American market. I don't agree that we shouldn't be permitted to resell down under; simply I understand (sort of) the other side.
Subj: writers who don't write 94-12-07 00:14:58 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Hi all:
Cat got your keyboard? No messages for three days. A first, as far as I can tell. It must be a good sign: everyone is working hard on some great assignments!
If you're waiting for a subject to talk about: I'm still interested in your experiences with online two-way communications with readers. I raised the subject before, and Jennifer, in response, has uploaded her recent CJR story on the subject.
Do your magazines publish your e-mail address? What kind of response did you get? What are the benefits and disadvantages of communicating w/ readers this way?
Other question: anyone here ever work for Omni? Do you take Omni seriously, or is it perceived as a mag for carzed conspiracy enthusiasts? (they do seem to pay disproportinate amounts of attention to UFO theories and the like).
Rogier
Subj: New Yorker on the Press 94-12-07 11:27:22 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
Gang,
Adam Gopnik has a provocative piece on the press in the Jan. 12 New
Yorker. I'm not quite as enthralled as Gopnik appears to be by the
arguments of Paul H. Weaver, whom I saw on Lamb's CSpan book show some
months back and seemed less an authority than an egotist (working for
Fortune, IMHO, doesn't qualify as getting down into the guts of
journalism).
But the rest of the piece will make you think.
Jim
Subj: Quoting online sources 94-12-07 19:07:37 EST
From: Elizaname
Posted on: America Online
Okay, I'm just making this up.
Suppose I'm writing an article about Roseanne. Can I quote the people who post on that board by their screen name, no name or what? Do I need permission or is it a "public forum?"
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-07 20:35:42 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Interesting question. I've quoted from bulletin boards, but without screen names or real names. Not that including names would be necessarily unethical, it's just that the quotes, in that particular context, didn't seem to be necessary (I could elaborate, but it's along story...). Would you quote from a REAL bulletin board that you came across? I would, since it's public. But if you want to be totally in the clear, I guess it couldn't hurt to first contact the people.
Rogier
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-07 21:39:16 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
Just a note. Check AOL's Terms of Service.
They claim a copyright on all postings. That's right.
Check out this from your agreement with AOL: (Keyword: TOS)
>>(b) By submitting Content to any Public Area of the AOL Service (Public Area(s) are those features that are generally accessible to other Members, such as chat rooms, message boards, file uploads) you automatically grant, or warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted, AOL Inc. the royalty-free perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate and distribute the Content (in whole or part) worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any media now known or hereafter developed for the full term of any copyright that may exist in such Content. You also permit any Member to access, view, store or reproduce the Content for that Member's personal use. Subject to this grant, the owner of Content placed on the AOL Service retains any and all rights which may exist in such Content.
(c) Member shall not, for a commercial purpose, upload, post, publish, transmit, reproduce, distribute, or participate in the transfer or sale, or in any way exploit, any Content obtained through the AOL Service. Except as expressly provided in the Terms of Service (see Section 2D of the Rules of the Road), any reproduction, distribution or other use of Content available through the AOL Service without the express written consent of AOL Inc. is strictly prohibited. Member may upload to the software files or otherwise distribute on the AOL Service only public domain Content, or Content in which the author has given express authorization for on-line distribution. You may not upload, post, reproduce, or distribute, in any way, Content protected by copyright, or other proprietary right, without obtaining permission of the copyright owner. Any copyrighted Content submitted with the consent of a copyright owner should contain a phrase such as "Copyright owned by [name of the owner]; Used by Permission." The unauthorized submission of copyrighted or other proprietary Content constitutes a breach of AOL Inc.'s Terms of Service and could subject you to criminal prosecution as well as personalliability for damages in a civil suit. Remember you, not AOL Inc., are liable for any damage resulting from any infringement of copyrights, proprietary rights, or any other harm arising from such submission.<<
Interesting isn't it?
Jim
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-07 21:44:53 EST
From: SCAN911
Posted on: America Online
Yeah, I'd like to see AOL submit copyright forms to the Library of Congress everyday. Right!
Chuck
SCAN911
Subj: Re: AOL TOS 94-12-07 23:22:29 EST
From: Cosmobull
Posted on: America Online
Kinda creepy if ya ask me.
Subj: CN Contracts 94-12-08 00:19:58 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Spoke with a Conde Nast editor today who told me their contracts are in flux, meaning the powers that be expect them to be changed within six months. In general, I was told, writers have little trouble striking out the austrailian clauses. Also, agencies like ICM and William Morris have made their own revisions of CN contracts to include riders pertaining to electronic rights. Apparently, if you fight hard enough the battle can be won. We'll see next week after I receive two CN contracts - the new ones, that is.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-08 00:30:06 EST
From: Inkdragon
Posted on: America Online
I've got a question about this quoting online sources stuff.. I recently had an article that I wrote on spec accepted for publication by a magazine (my first, actually). The article is about an AOL forum and includes quotes from forum hosts and members. I got the permission of every person whose comments and info I used, but am I going to run into trouble with AOL for the article itself? I wrote the article originally for a college course and did not really expect that it would be published, but since part of the assignment was to submit it, I did, and I was just glad when I got the "yes" letter from the mag and not worried about anything at all until I read Jimmor's posting about AOL TOS. I'm obviously a novice in the wonderful world of freelancing and basically assumed that my professor would have told me if there were things I needed to take care of before submitting my piece. Any comments, advice, reassuring-type messages, etc, would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Michelle :)
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-08 10:07:59 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
Chuck,
It's a common fallacy that you must register a work with the U.S. Copyright Office for it to be protected. That's not so. Any time something is committed to a "tangible medium" (such as your computer) you get a copyright.
There is an advantage to registering. If an unregistered work is infringed upon, you must register with the Copyright Office before filing suit. And then - or so I'm told - you can only seek compensation for actual loss.
Registration, (before the infringement, I think), will allow you to recover statutory damages, which can be higher. It also allows you to recover attorney's fees. (The fee for registration is only $20 and I'd suggest that's peanuts to AOL, though I have no way of knowing if they do it).
How do I know this? A media lawyer who hangs out on C-serve has uploaded several very useful copyright primers to the library there. If you have any other questions, I'm sure answers can be found through reps at the NWU or the ASJA.
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-08 10:11:29 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
As long as you contact the sources of the quote you don't need AOL's permission to use those quotes. This from an AOL flak I spoke with last year concerning the same matter. In fact, it hasn't even been decided if you can't lift quotes here without permission. After all, this is a public forum.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources-Ink 94-12-08 10:13:42 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
Michelle,
I'm not a lawyer, but I think the "fair use" provisions of the law may allow you to use small portions - such as quotes from the board - in your story.
If you interviewed people aside from whatever you found on the board, that, of course, is no problem. AOL has no claim to those interviews, just material uploaded to boards, etc.
I did a story about cyberspace earlier this year for a national mag and used small quotes from the "grief" board over on Senior Net. Because of the sensitive nature of the posts, I sought and got permission from everyone I quoted. I also interviewed them by telephone to confirm the facts mentioned on the board. I did not bother to deal with aol regarding the board postings, but then I only actually quoted a sentence or two from each person.
The rest of the information came through interviews I did.
Subj: Re:CN Contracts 94-12-08 12:16:16 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Citywoman writes:
<<Spoke with a Conde Nast editor today who told me their contracts are in flux, meaning the powers that be expect them to be changed within six months>>
I guess enough writers have put up a big enough stink to make the company realize that they need to do something about the contracts. It's odd, since they just came out with their "new and improved" contracts in July.
As far as my contract situation, the only thing I could get changed was the Australian rights. They've added a rider that says that I can sell reprints in the down under markets, but need CN's approval first. Sounds suspiciously similar to Jennifer's situation, but, if that's the best I can do and still come out with a good clip and a decent paycheck, then that's life.
I figure we've all got to stand up for our rights, but no one expects every writer to be a martyr time and time again and turn down assignments when they can't get the *exact* terms they want. The important thing is not to blindly sign contracts without fully understanding their terms -- and to continue to be able to pay the rent! :-}
Leah
Subj: Downturn in 1995??? 94-12-08 12:21:30 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Hi, all. Just wanted to share what a crappy day I had yesterday and really hope it's not the sign of things to come in 1995.
First, an editor at a magazine for whom I've been writing for 6 months (and who's been stalling on paying me for my last article for nearly two months) called and balled me out for demanding that I get paid on a timely basis. (I'd been calling him weekly for the past three weeks asking where my check was.) He even told me that I had no write invoicing them "without my prior approval." Seems like I won't be working for him anymore.
Then, two hours later, my bread and butter freelance source of income called to say that due to the hiring of staff writer and budget cutbacks that they would be unassigning me my monthly column starting next month and significantly cutting back on the number of features they'd be assigning in 1995.
Sigh.
I hope today brings better news.
Leah
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-08 14:15:26 EST
From: SCAN911
Posted on: America Online
Jimmor,
I am aware of the copyright protections, but as I said, I doubt someone from AOL sits there printing out everyone's postings everyday just so they can protect themselves!
Even if they didn't register, I suppose AOL's attorneys have better things to do than go after folks who reprint excerpts from the various sections on AOL.
Unless you steal something from AOL, I think you "could get away with" reprinting anything from anyone else.
Fun, eh?
Chuck
SCAN911
Subj: Ideas 94-12-08 16:02:44 EST
From: MoJoe1
Posted on: America Online
Wrtrs News says < I've never understood how any writer has trouble coming up with ideas, because I have more on any given day than I could possibly pursue in a month.> True enough. However, I'd say that often there's quite a bit of work between "coming up with an idea" and putting that idea into sound enough shape to sell an editor, especially an editor who doesn't know you well.
Subj: Sierra Club Contest 94-12-08 17:13:04 EST
From: ALEXABRIX
Posted on: America Online
Does anyone have the rules for the Sierra Club Essay contest (which I think they're having this year)? The particular issue that may have run the rules is checked out at my library.
Subj: Not to fret Leah 94-12-08 21:29:47 EST
From: Cosmobull
Posted on: America Online
Here's five things to make you happy:
1) There's a great interview with Robert Gottlieb in the current Paris Review about the craft of editing. Really insightful and a pleasure to read (although it might throw you into despair when compared to the buttheads it sounds like you're dealing with).
2) Where I live in Boston, the Globe just ran a three-part series on the hazards of elevators and escalators that has resulted in the state's commissioner losing his job and the closure of several unsafe elevators until further notice. Not necessarily a cheering thought about transportation, but it is a reinforcement of the power of the media when it is good. Which sometimes it is.
3) Magazine karma dictates that all good writers will rotate their primary sources of income.
4) Last year was the best for magazines in the past decade in terms of ad pages sold. So more editors are out there looking for you. Just look at Wired--my god the December issue is a phone book.
5) You will sell the film rights one day....
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-09 13:58:26 EST
From: BowTieBook
Posted on: America Online
Michelle,
From my reading of the TOS, I'd think all you need is one more permission -- from AOL.
Gene Booth
Subj: Re:Downturn in 1995??? 94-12-09 16:40:19 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
I wrote: <<I hope today brings better news>>
And it did. My agent called to say that we'd finally (after six months) gotten an offer for my book. Needless to say, I've been jumping up and down (in spirit, at least) for the past 24 hours. And, the best thing is the advance the publisher is talking about off the bat is more than I would have earned in a year from my recently lost column. Is that cool or what?!
Leah
Subj: ASJA Update 12/9/94- Part 1 94-12-09 16:43:53 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
ASJA CONTRACTS WATCH
Issued December 8, 1994
For further information: ASJA Contracts Comittee
(212) 997-0947 / fax (212) 768-7414 / 75227,1650@compuserve.com
ASJA invites you to publish any and all of the following, with the goal
of spreading information to help us all. Tell your friends. Tell your
enemies.
News of TV GUIDE, INFORMATION ACCESS CO.,
AUTHORS GUILD, NATIONAL WRITERS UNION,
ASJA, DIVERSION, GRUNER + JAHR, WORKING
MOTHER, PHOTO DISTRICT NEWS, LADIES'
HOME JOURNAL, LONGEVITY...
TV GUIDE is coming around. Chief editor Anthea Disney (also
editorial director of Murdoch Magazines) told a recent conference of
the Magazine Publishers Association that the magazine's attempt to
corral wide e-rights for free was a flop. "Writers and their agents
across America slashed red pencils through this particular clause,"
Disney reported. She described a new TV Guide contract, in the
works, that narrows the scope and time for e-rights in articles and
provides payment for writers. Writers, she told the assembled
publishers and editors, are "obviously entitled to residuals." Licensing
e-rights is not mandatory, she added: "We will still work with people
if they don't want to go on-line with us." Once again, writers who
stand firm in refusing to grant extra rights for free have shown that
they can make a difference.
In preparing its on-line version, TV GUIDE is planning to include
material back to the 1950s. Disney said she has set "a team of
researchers" to work tracking writers of past articles to obtain
permission.
A further highlight of the MPA discussion, from an industry lawyer
commenting on the moderator's report that two magazines surveyed for
the conference "believed first North American serial covered electronic
publishing": "I'm going to ask for the names of those two companies
who believe first North American serial rights will cover them for
electronic media, because I have some litigators I want to introduce
them to...."
Writers who have found their works in on-line databases--and that
could be most free lances--should want to see the License Agreement
between a typical magazine and INFORMATION ACCESS
COMPANY, the chief producer of on-line and other magazine
databases available on CompuServe, Dialog and elsewhere. Among
the interesting points of the paper: 1. IAC contracts to make
electronic, optical and other use of "all or part of the editorial content"
of the magazine. (Not "the entire issue," as some publishers maintain.)
2. IAC pays royalties to the magazine under each license, including,
for example, 30% for on-line use. 3. Upon request of the magazine,
based on copyright or other legal problems, IAC will delete material
within 72 hours. (So when an editor says the magazine "must" have
your e-rights, it isn't so.) 4. The magazine warrants that it has "all
the rights necessary to enter into this agreement and will indemnify,
defend and hold IAC harmless from any damages...arising from any
claims...including, but not limited to, copyright infringement...." 5.
IAC agrees to give notice of the publisher's copyright. (The problem
is, it does so even when the writer holds the copyright.)
AUTHORS GUILD Executive Director Robin Davis Miller is sending
to all 6,700 Guild members a four-page letter "to alert you to a new
and ominous threat to the rights of authors for periodicals...."
Explaining about publishers' demands for free electronic publication
rights, the letter concludes by asking members to join in taking a stand
on the principle "that taking authors' electronic rights without paying
for them is unacceptable."
-more-
Subj: ASJA Update 12/9/94-Part II 94-12-09 16:45:35 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
ASJA CONTRACTS WATCH -- Part II
The NATIONAL WRITERS UNION, which has been targeting IAC, is
asking for a meeting with the database producer's new owner,
Thomson Corp., the Canadian media giant. NWU also has begun to
collect small cash contributions from its members and others who wish
to be included in a group complaint letter the NWU plans to send to
IAC and other database operators.
Meantime, an ASJA member has sent his own letter to IAC noting that
an upcoming issue of one listed magazine contains two articles of his
"that are not available to IAC or its clients for any purpose or use
whatsoever." Pointing out that as author, he owns the copyright in the
works, he instructed: "Please remove these articles before the contents
of the issue are distributed to your clients. Please confirm to me that
you have done so." An IAC staffer responded: "I have notified the
appropriate people here at Information Access Company and your
material will be deleted right away." (Writers whose material is
on-line without authorization may wish to request its deletion by
writing to Christine M. Gordon, Director, Copyright and Licensing,
IAC, 362 Lakeside Drive, Foster City, CA 94404, fax 415 378 5009,
tel 800 227 8431. The letter might call for an accounting of receipts
attributable to each item.)
ASJA continues a broad campaign on behalf of all freelance writers.
Society representatives have been writing to and meeting with
executives at major magazines and publishing groups. On request
from some publishers, ASJA's Contracts Committee has provided
specific comments on contracts, making the point that extra rights must
be separately compensated.
DIVERSION, from Hearst Business Publishing, doesn't use the
Contract From Hell being offered by Hearst consumer magazines;
instead, it has a short, fairly writer-friendly contract. Diversion's
agreement includes too broad promotional-use and warranty clauses
(which both should be amended) but otherwise claims no extra rights
and puts no onerous burden on the writer.
GRUNER + JAHR offers a contract full of extras, but, according to
one writer, deletions and switches from no or low pay to "at a fee to
be negotiated" are being accepted.
WORKING MOTHER (a LANG COMMUNICATIONS magazine) has
been turning off writers with a new contract that claims, among other
things, the writer's copyright, half of the net revenue received from
licensing an article by itself and all the income from "collective"
use--in print and all electronic media. Editors have been dodging flak
from some of their regulars and, at least in some cases, have yielded.
A handful of regular writers for PHOTO DISTRICT NEWS (owned by
BPI Communications) forced a small but significant change recently.
The magazine began by insisting on all rights "with no additional cost
to us." When writers protested, PDN editors offered extra pay but
with no contract attribution. For the writers, that wasn't good enough.
Latest: An offer to add to the contract: "In consideration for such
rights, PDN agrees to pay you an additional 15% per article." Not a
lot of cash involved, but a start, and a lesson learned once again:
When a publisher goes too far, it pays to talk to others, hang together
and have the guts to say no.
-more-
Subj: ASJA Update 12/9/94-Part III 94-12-09 16:46:44 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
ASJA CONTRACTS WATCH - Part III
From the photography battleground: FPG International, a big New
York stock photo house, has reached an out-of-court settlement with
Newsday, which it had sued for copyright infringement via digital
rearranging of images. The settlement gives FPG $20,000, 10 times
the licensing fee that would have been charged had permission been
sought for the color cover and additional inside use, and "a significant
portion" of attorneys' fees. A settlement attempt last summer broke
down in part over Newsday's insistence on a gag order; the final
agreement left FPG free to talk about the case, which it is doing
loudly. FPG has already added the 10-times figure to its paperwork
and urges its adoption "as a `fair-warning' standard by the stock photo
industry in warning off unlicensed scanning."
Anecdote from the front (in case you need further proof that it's a flea
market out there): Writer is asked to do a 65,000-word project for
$6,500. "Can't do," she says. "How much do you want?" asks the
editor. "It's a four-month project," says the writer. "I'd want $5,000 a
month: $20,000." Says the editor: "O.K."
Another (offering evidence that there's bluffing on both sides): A
LADIES' HOME JOURNAL editor tells a writer that its contract can't
be changed. Writer responds with the two best words to use in such a
situation--"No, thanks"--and takes her leave. Minutes later, editor calls
back: "O.K."
What if you're caught with an assignment completed before receiving
a contract with unsavory new terms? What if the publisher
strong-arms and refuses to budge and you're not prepared to take a
walk? Here's a nice idea from a writer: Turn in the work, sign the
accursed contract, but deliver a letter to both the editor and the
company's top honcho explaining bluntly: "You have me over a
barrel. I did the job in good faith and you changed terms on me. I've
invested too much time in this not to be paid, so I have signed your
unfair contract. I am not happy." It's important that it be known all
the way to the top that your signing is not just another wimpy writer
quietly rolling over.
From a letter to this month's ASJA Newsletter, in which a member
reports turning down an offer accompanied by a deal-breaking
contract: "I would like to write for LONGEVITY, but not under its
current contract. A contract is properly an agreement between two
parties, not an ultimatum issued by one of them."
Today's sermon: Magazines are now able to market their content in so
many ways--electronic, foreign editions, syndication, anthologies,
special reprints and more--that the business is nearly as fragmented as
the book game. Do book contracts say that one price covers
paperback, book club, serial rights, film rights and more? Of course
not. Book publishers pass income to authors according to rights
licensed and the income produced. Magazine contracts should be just
as specific: Each right licensed should be tied to its payment.
[The American Society of Journalists and Authors is the national
organization of leading freelance writers. Inquiries from all are
welcome.]
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-09 20:58:47 EST
From: MoJoe1
Posted on: America Online
I would guess that you could quote them to the extent that you could quote a speech or book, as long as you didn't quote so much as to infringe on the copyright of the person who produced the stuff. This is an interesting subject. There have recently been lawsuits filed in response to opinions expressed in online postings, a reminder that saying stuff here is no different, legally, than expressing yourself in any other public forum.
Subj: Re:Downturn in 1995??? 94-12-10 05:36:38 EST
From: CharlieDIY
Posted on: America Online
That is fantastic, Leah.
Hope it sells a million, or two. Maybe even three or four.
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-10 14:11:42 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
As I've mentioned here and in other places, I do a lot of online interviews. I frequently use posted materials as part of the quoted materials in my articles, but I make sure I have the permission of the person who wrote it first. I wouldn't want to be quoted in a publication without my knowledge or permission, and that's the basic rule I apply when quoting other people. Sometimes this means I can't use a really great quote I found on-line, but them's the breaks.
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-10 14:54:20 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Bridget writes:
>>I wouldn't want to be quoted in a publication without my knowledge or permission, and that's the basic rule I apply when quoting other people.<<
Bridget, what you're doing is certainly 'right', but I'm not sure that NOT obtaining people's permission to quote them from remarks on a BBS is necessarily wrong, legally or ethically.
Number one (again): It's a public forum. These are opinions that were put out there with the expressed or implied intention on the part of the sender, that others, even casual passers-by on the Infobahn, read them.
Number two: It's virtually anonymous. Screen names usually do not reveal, or even give a clue about, a person's real name. So, a writer has much less need to be concerned about his/her source's privacy.
Uh-oh. Did I really blow it this time?
This message may be published elsewhere without my prior knowledge or permission :-)
Rogier
Subj: Copyright 94-12-10 19:16:05 EST
From: LinGP
Posted on: America Online
Re Jimmor and Chuck's messages on filing. I agree with Jimmor that copyright begins when the material is created. But how does this fit with AOL's statements about ownership. The way I understand it, copyright belongs to the individual who actually created the work, and remains with that person unless they implicitly sign a statement to the contrary. Seems to me that even if AOL indicates in its contract that they "own" rights to all material on boards, etc., that their claim would probably not stand up under legal scrutiny. But, then again, I'm not an attorney...
Subj: Bad day. 94-12-10 19:19:35 EST
From: LinGP
Posted on: America Online
Leah,
Sorry to hear about your day. I know it can be a real bolt when a regular source suddenly dries up. That's happened to me this past year with some major clients and it's been challenging trying to find markets to replace those "sure things." Luckily, they are out there and, sometimes it seems, that the loss of one client is just the impetus needed to go out and find three (or more!) to replace that market. As I'm sure you will... (At least it's the end of 1994 and, as you say, 1995 is a whole new year!!)
Subj: Good day! 94-12-10 19:21:19 EST
From: LinGP
Posted on: America Online
Leah,
What great news! That *is* indeed cool. Good for you.
Subj: ASJA 94-12-10 19:23:27 EST
From: LinGP
Posted on: America Online
I was a member of ASJA some years ago, but let my membership lapse (to avoid paying the dues!). Have often wondered if that was a mistake, if I was missing some of the benefits inherent in being a member, etc., etc.
A query to those of you who are currently (or have been) members. Has the membership been "worth it" to you? Should I consider "re-upping"?
Subj: Re:Downturn in 1995??? 94-12-10 22:03:05 EST
From: CTUNSTALL
Posted on: America Online
And it did. My agent called to say that we'd finally (after six months) gotten an offer for my book. Needless to say, I've been jumping up and down (in spirit, at least) for the past 24 hours. And, the best thing is the advance the publisher is talking about off the bat is more than I would have earned in a year from my recently lost column. Is that cool or what?!
Leah
CONGRATS!!!!
CTunstall, always good to hear good news.
Subj: advice wanted 94-12-14 09:41:17 EST
From: AnneMz
Posted on: America Online
I had an article I wanted to write about a topic (innocent people convicted or nearly convicted of crimes) that is close to my heart because a friend of mine endured it. So I looked for a market to match the story, keeping in mind that I'm short on feature credits. I queried a magazine I found in my public library and they said they wanted it, but weren't a paying market. I wrote and delivered it to have the story told and get the clip. When are you going to run it? I asked. They said if I hadn't heard from them in 30 days call. I did. I was told they didn't know when they would publish it because they don't keep a calendar. I waited longer. No word. Then I wrote a letter asking about the status of the piece and included a SASE. No answer. This is a glossy mag I found in my local library. The article took considerable work including interviews of people across the country. Should I hound them? Withdraw the article and try to find somewhere else to submit it? I have a potential alternative in mind, but of course its iffy and this is a story that needs to be told. I did get a paid related op-ed out of it, but I really want the full blown thing printed. What should I do?
Subj: Re:advice wanted 94-12-14 10:40:31 EST
From: GraceMI
Posted on: America Online
You don't say how long the process has taken, but why not query other magazines while you are waiting? Or, withdraw your article from the magazine and send it out again to others who may be interested. I wouldn't be so eager to work with the particular outfit you describe - seems disorganized.
Subj: Re:advice wanted 94-12-14 14:31:06 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: America Online
Since no money is involved anyway, and chances are good you wouldn't want to submit to them again, write a letter stating:
I am formally withdrawing "title of article", which was submitted on speculation (date).
Mail it certified, so that you'll know they received it. This will also be necessary (hang on to the return card) should another magazine be interested in the piece.
Subj: Going freelance Danyl 94-12-14 15:15:15 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
DanylFL writes: >>I'd like some advice on<< going freelance fulltime
We all seem to find different paths to becoming comfortable/successful in
this biz. Just one man's thoughts. As an FYI, I don't do PR, corporate work or trade mags, which pay better than consumer mags. Just the rare newspaper story and plenty of magazine features.
>> 1) About how much seed money should I have saved in
case success is slow in coming? and 2) Would holding a part-time job hurt me more than help me?<<
1. If you can, find a market you can count on. When I left newspapers, I struck a deal with my old paper to write a feature at week for a guaranteed stipend. That gave me X$$$ per month to start, a kind of tattered parachute into the freelance drop zone. This is, in effect, a part-time job that also furthers your freelancing career. Still, I made less my first year out than I did on salary at that metro paper the previous year.
(And don't forget you'll have healthcare insurance to pay)
A few other suggestions:
2. Find a market where you can become their "go-to" guy, a place where the editor calls you when the editor needs a story. Constantly relying on cold querying is a time-consuming process. Trading ideas with an editor over the phone or at lunch increases your success rate immeasurably. You'll find such a niche if you show you can provide clear, concise, interestingly-written, well-reported stories and meet deadlines and word counts.
3. Pay per word can be deceiving. It often takes just as much research
(especially if you're as neurotic as I am) to do a 500-word story as a
2,500-word piece. Unless it is a new market I really want to crack, I'll take a 2,500-word piece for $2K in a heartbeat over a 500 word, $500 offer. It's a better clip as well.
Good luck,
Jim
Subj: permisson from online sources 94-12-14 15:36:47 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Freelance Succes editor Judith Broadhurst found these journalist's guidelines on the Well, a Bay area BBS. I'm posting them here since they are related to the discussion about how to go about when quoting sources online.
"You will find that people on the WELL expect to be asked for permission to quote their postings to other media or systems. Our members tend to see their WELL posts as being casual opinions for WELL subscribers only, and violating this custom may involve a writer in a great deal of resentment and controversy. On the bright side, this tradition allows for astonishing candor sometimes, and following up on an interesting post with e-mail to the member who posted it may generate an interview or useful leads. While e-mail is swift, individual posters may be busy or log on sporadically. For that reason, it's wise to plan ample lead time for getting approval for quotes to include in stories based on topics you start or read on the WELL. Please send us clippings or point us to broadcast times for your stories."
Rogier
Subj: Re:permisson from online sources 94-12-14 18:06:29 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
This quote from the Well describes exactly how I obtain my online "interviews," following up interesting postings with e-mail. The advice about lead time is very true. You never know when the person on the other end is off for a week. I always ask for a phone number so I can reach them in a hurry if I have a follow-up question.
Subj: Re:Going freelance Danyl 94-12-14 21:40:38 EST
From: SCAN911
Posted on: America Online
Jim offers excellent advice. It's much the way I am operating my first year (plus) out in the cold, cruel world. If you didn't read it, go back and reread it. You really need some "regular" work line up if you want to make money. The work won't always come to you, but if you have regular gigs (mine is several columns on both weekly and monthly basis) it softens the impact when you don't get extra work in some months.
Chuck
SCAN911
Subj: Re:advice wanted 94-12-15 15:12:06 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Annemz writes: <<The article took considerable work including interviews of people across the country. Should I hound them? Withdraw the article and try to find somewhere else to submit it? I have a potential alternative in mind, but of course its iffy and this is a story that needs to be told.>>
First let me say how sorry I am that this magazine is dicking you around like this. I definitely think you should withdraw the piece and shop it around, if you think it has a market elsewhere. First, however, you should send a letter, via registered mail, to your editor saying something to the effect that if you do not receive written confirmation within 15 days or so that your piece has been scheduled, then this letter will serve as notification that you're withdrawing your piece from the magazine. It's only fair, since they've kept you in limbo for so long.
When you do decide to re-market the piece, make sure you do it via a query; magazines are often less receptive to completed manuscripts, especially if the story was written for someone else.
Good luck!
Leah
Subj: Re:advice wanted 94-12-15 15:20:04 EST
From: DARK PRINT
Posted on: America Online
I'm mad while I'm writing this, so I hope I make sense.
I'd submitted something to a writers magazine October 1 (it was a complete manuscript, because it was a personal essay, end of the mag type).
Writers Digest says to wait "Two months or less" for a reply from this magazine. After a little more than 2 months, I called the editor. She promised a reply within a day.
Two weeks later, I called again (12/12) and left a message on voice mail. Today, I decided to make one last phone call and then just give up on the magazine.
As soon as I'd introduced myself on the phone today, the editor started yelling that I'd "lost the sale because of my pestering." She said that she'd sent me a contract and check in the mail yesterday (?) but that I could "just forget it now."
She kept referring to me as "girl" and telling me that even editors celebrate the holidays. She then hung up on me.
Is this extremely unprofessional or what? How would you handle this situation?
Thanks - Kelly
Subj: Re:advice wanted 94-12-15 17:40:18 EST
From: MoJoe1
Posted on: America Online
<When you do decide to re-market the piece, make sure you do it via a query; magazines are often less receptive to completed manuscripts, especially if the story was written for someone else.> This may be true for the big nationals. But if you are sending the piece to lesser markets, I'd send the whole thing.
Subj: Re:advice wanted 94-12-15 17:41:49 EST
From: MoJoe1
Posted on: America Online
I've never heard of a situation like this. Of course, if she did really send the check and contract, I'd cash the check.
Subj: Re:advice wanted 94-12-15 21:19:06 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
Dark Print writes:
>>She said that she'd sent me a contract and check in the mail yesterday (?) but that I could "just forget it now."<<
Heck, cash the check, sign the contract and send it back. And then wait. The ball is in her court.
If the check doesn't show up in ten days, I'd send the piece around to every one of her competitors. There's no better revenge for this kind of churlish behavior than having one of them pick it up.
Subj: More words to Danyl 94-12-15 23:40:18 EST
From: Cosmobull
Posted on: America Online
I would add only a few things to Jimmor's excellent post on freelancing.
1) It's not a terrible thing to have a non-writing job that pays decent money (anything ranging from waiting tables to hanging drywall to working spare shifts in the OR)--okay pays any money--and gives you some small sense of freedom in your writing. I worked fulltime freelance for two different year-and-a-half stretches, and while I could support myself in each, I think in starting out it may have been better if I were more selective in the pieces I chose to write. While its great to have a professional outlook about this job, you don't want to become too mercenary, which is a danger of the trade.
2) In addition to being a go-to guy, think seriously about becoming authoritative in something. Not that you need to specialize exclusively on one topic, but it truly helps to assign yourself some sort of beat or topic, and master it.
3) Think big. Most magazines will judge you on the quality of what you produce, not who you are. If you come up with the right idea and execute it properly, you can publish it.
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources,Rogier 94-12-11 10:23:09 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
Rogier:
I disagree with you that this is - by strict definition - a "public" place. A bulletin board in Times Square is public. This is a "public" bulletin board on a private, contracted service. Just my opinion.
(As an aside, I think we, as writers, ought to be very concerned about violating copyrights; whether AOL's copyright claim is valid, enforceable or whether they even want to enforce it is another sticky wicket).
Re anonymity. Posts may be "virtually" anonymous in some cases. I don't think that's an excuse to use them without checking with the poster. I'd suggest that very anonymity gives people the opportunity to brag, aggrandize and otherwise make less than factual statements. or statements perhaps less true to their feelings. Sorry, but I just don't see BBS as a good place to pull quotes at random without checking the source.
How do you know some kid isn't having fun online posting wild assertions?
Jim
Subj: Re:ASJA 94-12-11 10:25:28 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
I was a member of ASJA some years ago, but let my membership lapse (to avoid paying the dues!). Have often wondered if that was a mistake, if I was missing some of the benefits inherent in being a member, etc., etc.
I just joined and I've found the confidential newsletter with info on rates, hassling editors, etc. to be very useful. It's already steered me to a few new markets. Only time and providence will tell whether assignments will follow.
There is now also a members-only bulletin board just started on CI$ that seems good.
Jim
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-11 12:24:01 EST
From: LesDan
Posted on: America Online
Why not paraphrase? Or keep your sources anonymous. "An AOL subscriber in Tucson" or "A frequent participant in the Star Trek newsgroup."
If you don't quote sources directly, is there still a problem?
Subj: Re:Freelancer letterhead 94-12-11 13:44:06 EST
From: BuddyCT
Posted on: America Online
Its best not to use the term freelance writer on your letterhead, especially since it still has a connotation of a "ne'er do will" in some editors eyes. It would be the same if you put "sometimes I am a plummer," on your letterhead. Stick to a simple format, and if you do use a logo have something designed by a pro, not just a typewriter or a computer icon.
Subj: Re:Freelancer letterhead 94-12-11 13:56:41 EST
From: BuddyCT
Posted on: America Online
In regard to the term freelancer, recently I got a call from Visa about my bill. When the customer service agent asked for my office number and I replied that it was the same as the home number, she asked "So what does that mean?" I replied that I was a freelancer writer, she replied "Oh, so you are 'self-employed'" with a tone that insinuated that she didn't believe me. I said no I am a writer. She came back quickly with "Do you have a job or not, just give me an answer." I was furious! Here I was working against deadline for a national market and she was saying I was a bum!
Subj: Re:Which side are you on? 94-12-11 14:14:47 EST
From: BuddyCT
Posted on: America Online
Here a gripe-- Editors that call you weeks and weeks after they have accepted the piece, and then tell you that it needs to be cut down in size--in 24 hours or else it won't run in the slotted issue. I had this happen recently. It made me feel that the editor had no idea that I might "possibly" be busy with other assignments. Turned out she had just graduated from Columbia Journalisim school and had landed this job recently. Why in the heck did she wait twelve weeks to call and say that she needed it re-edited! She offered to "do it myself." I could have throttled her.
Subj: Vogue Knitting 94-12-11 15:28:23 EST
From: Karaho
Posted on: America Online
Anyone have any info on what's going on at Vogue Knitting magazine? Heard through the grapevine that the *entire* staff, from the editor on down, was fired one day last week without notice, and that "they" are going to have just a skeleton staff now and have the whole magazine done by freelancers. Anyone know who "they" are and how to reach them?
Subj: Re:Freelancer letterhead 94-12-11 20:59:42 EST
From: SCAN911
Posted on: America Online
I sometimes just simply stipulate that I am a "Writer/Editor/Communicator" in my letterhead.
Chuck
SCAN911
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources,Rogier 94-12-11 21:27:09 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Jim:
Relax, buddy! I'm not that asinine, careless, or unprofessional. I would never take anything I read on a BBS as a cast-in-stone fact. When I've used BBS quotes in an article, they were stated opinions.
What comes to mind is a peice for WiReD on the game rating legislation that Congress was preparing. I quoted a few people from a game developer's forum on CompuServe who, judging by the context of the messages, were clearly familiar with the issue. So I included bon mots like: "Once again the Government is forcing the unwilling to do the unnecessary for the ungrateful". That's clearly not something I need to check. If, however, someone had written "Did you know that Bill Clinton plays Doom and Street Fighter 2 so often that his work has recently begun to suffer", I would not have included that without the corroboration of a VERY reliable source or two.
Granted, AOL does not equal Times Square. But ANYTHING ANYONE posts on AOL can be read by well over a million subscribers. That's the virtual equivalent of making a 'private' statement with the largest megaphone you can get your hands on. Still, I realize that all this depends on the circumstances, and on the sensitivity of the topic. For instance, f I were to do a piece on rape and I found a thread of messages from victims, I would not quote from that without permission, and I would guarantee total anonymity to anyone who wanted it.
Rogier
Subj: Re:Freelancer letterhead 94-12-11 21:35:22 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
BuddyCT:
Time you got another credit card! At the very least, if it happens again, ask to speak to this dumbo's supervisor, and make it clear that you would like to be treated with the same courtesy that is accorded other customers. The nerve!
Rogier
Subj: unpro to call w/ ? 94-12-11 22:02:21 EST
From: RENEEGHEAD
Posted on: America Online
I'm really new at this, but would like to write a certain article for a horse magazine. The trouble is that most of these (relatively) small publications aren't listed in periodical guides, so I don't know if a similar article was run recently. I've invested in a few sample copies, but that still leaves me pretty much in the dark. Would it be grossly unprofessional to simply call the magazines and ask if they have done anything similar in the last year? Is there another reference source out there that I should refer to? (I've been using Reader's Guide to Periodicals, or whatever the official name is for those famous green books, and Access). I'd really appreciate any advice, hope I haven't bored you with my inexperience!
~renee
Subj: need full-time freelance advice 94-12-11 22:13:10 EST
From: Danyl FL
Posted on: America Online
I've been a lurker on this board for a good long time. Every time I read this board I find something incredibly useful. OK, now that I've sucked up enough, I've got some questions.
Frankly, my job sucks ('m a technical writer for an incompetent company). As a matter of fact, I think all jobs suck. I've decided to move into freelancing full-time in March '95 and I wanted some advice. I've been writing professionally for over a year now and I have good clips from good magazines, all local or regional. My equipment is bought and paid for and the stationery is all printed (no logo/just my name).
I'd like some advice on 1) About how much seed money should I have saved in case success is slow in coming? and 2) Would holding a part-time job hurt me more than help me?
From reading this board I got the impression that Leah's been through this same thing, but a year ago. I appreciate any insight I could get.
TIA
Dan
Subj: writing about AOL 94-12-11 22:23:51 EST
From: Inkdragon
Posted on: America Online
Thanks for your responses to my question, but I think my main concern might not have come across: I did get permission from every person I quoted.. I am just wondering about the fact that my article is ABOUT an AOL forum.. I've seen AOL reviewed in magazines and referred to in various articles, so I assume I am probably okay. I'd love to be absolutely sure I am okay, though.
Michelle :)
Subj: re:BuddyCT 94-12-11 23:47:41 EST
From: Cath803
Posted on: America Online
You should have told the rude Visa person, "yes, I have a great job where I get to wear slippers all day long. And I have no boss. How about you?"
Subj: Re:re:BuddyCT 94-12-12 03:18:45 EST
From: CharlieDIY
Posted on: America Online
Friend o fmine enjoys writing in his underwear--you might have mentioned some of the same type of benefit to the Visa slob.
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources,Rogier 94-12-12 10:14:48 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
Rogier,
I wasn't impugning your ethics. Just trying to make a broad point about online credibility. You know I've read and enjoyed that "Wired" piece and I probably would have done exactly the same with those bullet quotes from the board.
My point was directed at the subject in general and more at stories I've seen recently where writers simply sign on to a bulletin board, download the messages and conjure up a "how the public feels" piece.
We still disagree on bulletin boards. This may be (potentially, not realistically) the world's largest megaphone, but it's still a private one - at least until the courts or Congress decide otherwise. When you sign up you agree to the terms, which state the posts belong to the poster.
In these times when writers are fighting for their electronic rights, I just think it's a good idea to tell/ask permission when you quote from a post - whether anonymously or not. If we expect our rights to be respected, don't we have to do the same? Hey, call me an old, anal newsroom hack.
Suppose someone cruised through this folder, downloaded the advice, quotes, etc. and then used them in a best-selling book for writers without crediting or even informing any of us? How would you feel?
Jim
Subj: Re:Freelancer letterhead 94-12-12 14:40:59 EST
From: SCAN911
Posted on: America Online
Another thought to deal with credit providers.....If you have two phone lines (like many writers), make the one your "business line." And use a fictitious business name. Say you are employed by Write Communications Co. Answer the phone that way, too. And when the credit card provider calls to follow up on an application, they will ask to confirm whether you work for the "company". Tell them "he" or "she" does. And confirm the salary or whatever else they need.
Personally, I have never done this and I don't think it is proper, but it probably would work. Especially if you are angry at those who don't understand your status.
Chuck
SCAN911
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources,Rogier 94-12-12 14:41:05 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Jim:
We agree more than we disagree. I would indeed like some clarity in the matter of whether or not BBS's are considered a privare forum. Not just a few opinions like yours or mine, but a wise decision from, ah, The Supreme Court? Exciting times for cyberlawyers, if you ask me.
Rogier
Subj: Re:need full-time freelance advi 94-12-12 14:45:32 EST
From: SCAN911
Posted on: America Online
I heard that you should have at least a half-year's and perhaps better, a full-year's salary tucked away in case the world falls apart. Personally, I've never had that kind of money socked away. I always look at the classifieds, but I doubt I'd ever take on a part-time job. Try to do work for former employers in a new role as consultant. I used to work for a newspaper and they wanted me to do some work for them after I quit. The only way I agreed to continue working for them was on an independent contractor basis, so I can call the shots as to when I can or can't work for them. It's the best of both worlds.
Chuck
SCAN911
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources,Rogier 94-12-12 14:51:46 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
Rogier said that using quotes anonymously from online bulletin boards probably wasn't wrong, and, besides, people use screen names so it can't hurt anything.
The first part of that may very well be true. But I don't pull quotes from AOL boards where people use screen names to hide their true identifies. I use the Internet newsgroups, where people generally use their full, true names, and where I would not feel comfortable quoting anyone without their knowledge and permission. Why tick off a whole Internet newsgroup, get flamed, and ruin your chances of ever talking to those people again? It's just not worth it. It you want to sort of summarize what people online say without quoting anybody in particular, fine. But I'd feel that anything involving a single individual ought to at least include notice to them that you're quoting them...after all, they may no longer feel that way. And, on the other hand, they may be so delighted that they give you the best interview of your life. I've gotten great interviews from Internet folks by taking this approach. Why change now?
Subj: Re:Visa card & other tales 94-12-12 15:10:50 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
Well, this isn't exactly the same as the Visa card story, but I think you'll agree that it's comparable. I recently completed a story for a Large Digital Company's magazine. This LDC has decided that it doesn't want to deal with paying freelancers directly, so it has outsourced that particular job. When I got my packet of waste paper -- all of which I had to sign and send back in order to get paid -- here's what it included: a W-9 form; a 1099 questionnaire; a statement that I was not exporting prohibited items to countries like China, Cuba, Libya, North Korea, the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, et al; a statement which had to be signed and witnessed that I was indeed an independent contractor; a contract which, among other things, insisted that everything I do for Large Digital Company be kept secret (goes right along with being a freelancer and writing for publication) and which asked me to acknowledge that I'd been completely filled in on some kind of Hazardous Materials Laws and my Right to Know; and finally, an I-9 form, which is the Immigration and Naturalization Service form which every EMPLOYEE must fill out for their EMPLOYER when they apply for a job. I filled out the W-9 and 1099 questionnaire, agreed that I wasn't exporting atomic bombs or nerve gas to any of those nasty places, agreed and got witnessed that I was an independent contractor, marked up the contract royally, and refused to fill out the I-9 form on the grounds that it was totally inappropriate and that the only company obligated to collect and maintain such data about the personnel in my company is my company (and I got this from the INS itself after calling Senator Phil Gramm's office, the Small Business Administration, the Labor Department, the Federal Information Center, and maybe a couple of other places).
Why is LDC doing this? To cover their butts so the IRS doesn't crack down on them for hiring "consultants" who are really employees. I think this may be a sign of a trend, and the only way to stop it is to start writing our Congresscritters and raise holy Hades about the increasingly onerous paperwork burden the IRS and other Federal agencies is imposing upon small businesspersons like ourselves.
Wonder if I'll get paid. Anybody want to take bets?
Subj: Re:DARK PRINT/Editor 94-12-16 09:36:49 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
DARK PRINT: Well, you just learned that magazine editors can be just as immature and irrational as anyone else. Here's what I would do:
1) Cash that check when it comes in. Assuming it's acceptable, send the contract back, signed. If the check says anything on the back about your waiving all rights by signing it, cross that out, write "For Deposit Only" instead of your name, and cash it.
2) Write a nice sweet note to attach to the contract saying how sorry you were to have imposed upon the editor's time during the busy holidays, but that you had been told, after all, etc., etc. Not only will this perhaps allow you to KEEP that money you grabbed, but she might realize what a twit she came across as. She was only barking at you in the first place because she knew she had failed you and she was being defensive.
3) Memorize that editor's name. She will move on to other jobs and you don't want to forget what a jerk she was this time.
And what kind of dork sends you a check and a contract in the same mail, by way of letting you know your MS had been accepted? That isn't the way to do business anyway.
-steve
Subj: Re:advice wanted 94-12-16 09:38:10 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
Jimmor's advice to DARK PRINT included this: << If the check doesn't show up in ten days, I'd send the piece around to every one of her competitors. There's no better revenge for this kind of churlish behavior than having one of them pick it up.>>
YES! Especially if the competitor pays you more.
-steve
Subj: Brigitta's Piles of Paperwork 94-12-16 09:49:39 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
Brigitta T, I loved your post. Sounds like the company was also trying to prove they weren't hiring illegal aliens.
I'm not sure you can expect much help from "congresscritters", though. I do things sometimes for USIA (U.S. Information Agency) and THEY send a contract including a stipulation that I did not abuse drugs while preparing their article. They don't seem to care about running stop signs, committing homicide or worse, plagerism. Just drugs.
-steve
Subj: Weird Glitch in BBS 94-12-16 11:26:02 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Did anyone else have old postings from this BBS show up after newer postings? I was just reading the lastest from 12/15 and all of a sudden stuff from 12/11 shows up, including the post about the VISA card application. Since I seemed to have *missed* that one last week (and now I know why, because it never showed up on my system), I didn't know what the heck all of you were talking about. I wondered what would have caused such a glitch?!
Leah
Subj: Re:advice wanted 94-12-16 14:58:01 EST
From: HENJO
Posted on: America Online
If that check is really in the mail, I'd cash it. And fast.
Shari
Subj: Re:Weird Glitch in BBS 94-12-16 15:02:10 EST
From: HENJO
Posted on: America Online
Leah,
For a couple of days everything was wiped out around here so it is my assumption that, somehow in the land of cyberspace, they've been retrieved and are being reposted. Really weird.
Shari
Subj: Re:advice wanted 94-12-16 16:30:19 EST
From: SCAN911
Posted on: America Online
Kelly,
Unless you got the check and contract in the mail, she was pulling one over you. Not only did she lie, she is worthless to deal with as an editor. Luckily, you found out before your piece appeared in its pages. Surely you can find another outlet. I sincerely hope so. And the editor's name is worth posting for others to avoid, I think.
Chuck
SCAN911
Subj: Re:More words to Danyl 94-12-16 16:32:51 EST
From: SCAN911
Posted on: America Online
I agree that every writer should have a specialty. A subject that sets them apart from all other writers. This could be a hobby, interest, avocation, former vocation, etc. I wouldn't be where I am today if I hadn't become proficient in a certain area and now consider myself one of the most prolific writers in the area I primarily write about.
Chuck
SCAN911
Subj: Re:Weird Glitch in BBS 94-12-16 16:38:58 EST
From: SCAN911
Posted on: America Online
Yes, there was a glitch. Apparently AOL found all the old messages that got dumped. If our host visited this area on occasion, you'd have an official explanation. But don't hold your breath.
Chuck
SCAN911
Subj: This may sound lame 94-12-16 19:14:57 EST
From: Elizaname
Posted on: America Online
Buddy, I don't see the problem with the VISA person asking if you were self-employed.
Being self-employed isn't a bad thing (and often has more positive connotations than "freelancer" or "consultant" or half a dozen other things). If her tone was rude, that's something else. I just don't see the problem with self-employment. All credit cards want work information.
Subj: Reply to Danyl FL 94-12-16 19:41:36 EST
From: MikeW10071
Posted on: America Online
I went full-time freelance two years ago and it was one of the best things I ever did. Here's what made it possible for me:
**Moved from Los Angeles to Central Florida, where the cost of living is much lower.
**Continued on with my former employer as a contributing editor. Leave your job on good terms even though you hate it: They may be your biggest customer.
**I had two or three fairly regular customers already established.
**I signed on as a stringer with my local newspaper to fill in the gaps.
I would have had time for a part-time job for the first six months, but after that I was very busy. And had I taken something part time I might never had made the transition.
What part of Florida is your home?
Michael
Subj: Re:Freelancer letterhead 94-12-16 20:07:54 EST
From: JoAnnGr
Posted on: America Online
When the customer service agent asked for my office number and I replied that it was the same as the home number, she asked "So what does that mean?" I replied that I was a freelancer writer, she replied "Oh, so you are 'self-employed'" with a tone that insinuated that she didn't believe me. I said no I am a writer. She came back quickly with "Do you have a job or not
AMAZING! Next time, tell the bozo that 33 million folks work from home, at least part of the time, and she shouldn't be surprised by such a happenstance! But, one thing: why don't you consider yourself 'self-employed"?
Subj: Pitching Profiles 94-12-17 12:40:50 EST
From: Jmendels
Posted on: America Online
Hi all. I'm a freelancer who spends the majority of my time stringing for a magazine where I always work on assignment; I'm trying to branch out and try to do more of the traditional "pitch an idea with a query" stuff now...
Here's my question, which may be pretty basic. If I want to pitch a profile, do I approach the subject first or do I pitch the idea to the magazine and then see if the subject will go for it? I must sound really inexperienced, but I'm used to identifying myself as working for a pretty well known magazine where I get paid for my time even if the subject says no; not sure if most freelancers approach subjects kind of "on spec," and then if they have the green light, try to sell the idea to an editor using the subject's cooperation as cachet.
Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Pitching Profiles 94-12-17 16:04:53 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
JenniferII:
Query the magazine first. If it's a reputable title and they say yes, you'll get access to your subject on the basis of your assignment and the magazine's good name.
Rogier
Subj: Re:Rude editor 94-12-17 19:33:24 EST
From: DARK PRINT
Posted on: America Online
Re: my earlier post about a rude editor, who told me my check was in the mail, but I could forget the whole thing, because I called her on the phone.
I got the check in the mail today. I also got a note from the editor, saying that I'd better learn patience. (After I waited three months for an answer!)
I'm cashing the check Monday, and never sending any idea there again.
Kelly
Subj: Re:Rude editor/Kelly 94-12-17 23:04:37 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: America Online
That's the ticket, Kelly!
Who IS this charming person, by the way?
Subj: Re:Rude editor/Kelly 94-12-18 00:20:47 EST
From: SCAN911
Posted on: America Online
Kelly,
Good for you! Laugh all the way to the bank, too!!!
I think you should start screening your calls on the answering machine and make her wait for you to return her calls when she wants the check back!
Chuck
SCAN911
Subj: ASJA & letterhead 94-12-18 23:45:00 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
I am thinking of becoming an ASJA member. Their membership info says they might take two months to decide if they want to HAVE you as a member. They want references, including names and numbers of editors you work with, and you have to submit at least six 'full-length' published articles. An application fee of 25 dollars is required, to be subtracted from the INITIATION fee of 100 dollars. A full membership is 165 dollars a year. No word in their brochure on what the initiation fee entails.
I can understand that they want to separate the wannabes from the pros, and have no real problem with any of these conditions, but I wonder what this initiation fee means, and how it differs from a full membership. Also, two months to process an application seems excessive, even a little impolite. What do you think?
We were talking about freelancer letterhead a few weeks ago. Have any of you printed professional affiliations on your letterhead paper, such as 'Member of the American Society of Journalists and Authors,' and/or 'Member of the Author's Guild'? Might look presumptious or pompous; but then again, it might also signal that you're indeed a pro, and that you're not going to take any s***, moneywise and contract-wise; that you 'know your stuff'.
Rogier
Subj: Re:ASJA & letterhead 94-12-19 08:56:38 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
<<...I wonder what this initiation fee means, and how it differs from a full membership. Also, two months to process an application seems excessive, even a little impolite. What do you think?>>
Rogier, the initiation fee is just a way to weed out the "collectors" of memberships.
The $165/year (I just paid $180 to include their excellent Dial-a-Writer service) is a bargain, considering the newsletter you get and the help and services available.
The two-month time-lag is pretty fast actually. They will publish your name and credentials in the 10x yearly newsletter and ask for member comment. Any comments received will be reviewed by the membership committee before they approve you. So you had better not have offended any ASJA members in the past. :-)
-steve
Subj: Re:ASJA & letterhead 94-12-19 12:10:30 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
Rogier:
To add another endorsement...
I joined ASJA a couple of months ago. The confidential newsletter with fee information, etc. is invaluable. It helps prioritize which new markets are worth trying to break into.
Though the number of people participating is still relatively small, the new members-only BBS on another service seems like it will be useful as well. And then there's the society's work on electronic rights. So far, it seems worth the price to me.
Subj: Thanks for the freelance advice 94-12-19 23:05:37 EST
From: Danyl FL
Posted on: America Online
Thanks for the tips everyone. I feel somewhat better prepared now. Much of what was suggested I was already doing and what I wasn't doing I plan on starting.
Be prepared for more questions though. You have been forewarned :)
P.S.
Mike, I live in Orlando. That newspaper you string for wouldn't happen to be the Sentinel would it?
Subj: Where is Everyone? 94-12-21 15:35:06 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
Magazine board hasn't had listings for two days! Is everyone as buried in their work as I've been or is everyone out shopping for Xmas presents (where I need to be)?
Ho, ho, happy holidays!
Subj: Re:advice wanted 94-12-21 22:20:15 EST
From: Tomdover
Posted on: America Online
Kelley: As both freelancer and magazine editor I can sympathize with you (and also, just a little, with the editor who yelled at you.) The best thing, in my opinion, after your first call, would have been to write a note, thank the editor for his/her interest, and simply say that you would like to hear by a certain date or you will have to submit your article elsewhere. There come a time to write off one market and go on to thenext, and you reached it. Good luck on the resubmission.
Tom Williams
Venture Press
Subj: Re:Which side are you on? 94-12-21 22:25:22 EST
From: Tomdover
Posted on: America Online
The editor liked your piece enough to buy it, then held it until needed. Space was limited, thus the need for the editing. Remember that the editor had a deadline too, and that most magazines operate with very, very small staffs. Count your blessings.
Subj: Re:unpro to call w/ ? 94-12-21 22:28:32 EST
From: Tomdover
Posted on: America Online
Don't call, just query. You've done all you can. The editor will not have time--or want to take time--to do this for you. Good luck.
Tom Williams
Kitchen Table Publisher
Subj: Inventors' Stories 94-12-21 22:56:51 EST
From: IFisk
Posted on: America Online
I'm working on an article about odd inventions. I would like to talk to anyone that has invented something and gone through the patent process.
Subj: Vanity Fair 94-12-22 01:16:53 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Call me a megalomaniac, but I want to pitch a story to Vanity Fair. The question is: whom do I approach over there? I think I've heard that Vanity Fair only takes queries/proposals from writers through well-established agents. True?
Rogier
Subj: out of touch 94-12-22 02:56:31 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
sorry I've been out of the loop lately. For one, whenever I've tried to post I've gotten a message that says the board is filled. Secondly, I've had a lot to get done and haven't been able to be too attentive. Glad you guys have kept the place moving!
Jennifer
Subj: Re:out of touch 94-12-22 11:06:40 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
Jennifer, this board falls apart without you.
-steve
Subj: Food for thought 94-12-22 11:27:06 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
I'd like to raise a question which I hope will be interesting for folks here. As a good many of you know, the past year has been my first as far as full-time freelancing goes. And what I've found is that discovering how I work as a writer...the processes I go through, the steps I take, when I work well, when I work poorly, when I KNOW I've done a really good job and when I'm left wondering, have been the most interesting part of the job. Let me give a quick example and then ask the question. Since I do have a technical background and really enjoy physics, electronics, astronomy, and all that stuff, I've found I have a strong tendency to massively over-research articles. And then I also have a tendency to ask the researchers questions that another researcher would ask rather than those a writer should be asking. So I'll wind up with all the gritty details -- including the differential equations (not kidding) -- of a researcher's latest work and not one good quote that doesn't have an equation in it. For the last piece I wrote, I read through two and one half POUNDS of technical articles from journals, and that ain't even including the books. So! My point and my question is (and I'm not asking for help, just an exchange) how long did it take each of you to figure out who you were as a writer, how you wrote, what did and didn't work for you, and how you know when a piece you've written is really, really good or just good enough? And give examples! <g> Merry Christmas to all, and I hope this produces some interesting conversation here.
Bridget
Subj: Re:Food for thought 94-12-22 12:10:27 EST
From: HENJO
Posted on: America Online
I'm not sure "who I am as a writer" yet, but getting there.
As for the research part, boy have I been there. I did a piece on moms who had gone through having babies die - touched on miscarriage but centered more on SIDS or other problems discovered shortly after birth. Also still births.
Not only did I have way too much research, but was trying to cover too wide a scope in a 2000 word piece (to please my editor). My first draft was nearly 10,000 words. I chopped and chopped and ended up with a - well - choppy piece. It was awful and a topic I could've used to sell to other markets (bigger) was written so poorly that the clip was worthless.
Now, if I need experts, I only interview a few. That really is enough for short pieces. And it's not so tempting to try to get all the "good stuff" in the final draft.
Subj: newspaper syndication 94-12-22 16:24:23 EST
From: LesDan
Posted on: America Online
How does one sell features for syndication? This is one area of the business with which I have no previous experience.
I write features on a semi-regular basis for the local paper, and have sold a couple of one-shot pieces to papers in other markets. While I love the flexibility of this type of writing, the pay for a single article is not brilliant.
Can (should?) a piece be sold to a syndicate after it's been printed? How does the syndicate work? I know a few of you have worked with NYT and Copley. I'd appreciate a primer.
Thanks,
Leslie
Subj: Re:Food for thought 94-12-22 17:16:13 EST
From: MoJoe1
Posted on: America Online
You raise an interesting point about time management: I find that a lot of freelancers spend
2/16/95 2:54:17 PM Opening ÒSystem Log 2/16/95.5Ó for recording.
way too much time researching pieces. I think you have to allot a certain number of hours for a project based on the fee and then determine how to do the best job in that number of hours. In terms of how do you know whether a piece is good enough or just great. I think over time you get a sense when something is good enough, but you'll only find out if something is great based on the response of readers. I am often astounded which articles of mine end of winning awards or drawing a batch of mail and which ones are published without a whimper of response.
Subj: Re:Food for thought 94-12-22 18:04:30 EST
From: JoAnnGr
Posted on: America Online
I do know my habits. I know that I don't start a project till about two weeks before it's due (except for calling way ahead to get press kits, slides, sources' names, etc. I mean I don't start interviewing till then), I know I'll take on just about anything because I'm convinced I can make it interesting . . . I know that now, after three years of renewed full-time writing, I'm confident enough to ask for more money, I know that I seldom miss a deadline, I know... etc.
I agree with MoJoe re: time management. I try to do as much as the money will merit . . . what does word count have to do with fee, I often wonder? I try to work it out so that I've worked at, ideally, $50/hr. Of course, that's not always possible, but lots of times it is. That way a $300 piece that takes me three or four hours is worth a lot more than a $1500 piece that takes two months--I would NEVER do that!
Subj: Re:Food for thought 94-12-22 18:34:50 EST
From: Cath803
Posted on: America Online
Bridget -- what a good question. It's sure to foster some good discussions here.
As far as freelancing, I think it took me at least a year before I really felt comfortable with what I was doing -- time management, research, etc. The research aspect (as you have found) is one of the most vexing. I often over-researched, and still do. But with time I learned what sort of stuff will work in an article and what won't, and how to avoid most of the extraneous stuff. A lot of times you need the background stuff yourself, of course, but then you just have to start looking at it all with the readers' eyes -- the ones who never got through high school science courses.
I sometimes feel like I am asking the scientists I interview to almost "talk down" to me, when I have to steer them away from the technical back to the more general stuff that I can use. The ones who have been interviewed often know what I am after, however. The ones who have less experience with interviews assume that means *I* am just not very knowledgeable. It doesn't much bother me anymore, because now I know much better what I want and I'm just focusing on that.
FYI -- one friend (a LONGtime freelancer) said it takes about three years before a freelance career really gets off the ground -- to the point where magazines are calling *you* because you are known as the one to go to.
Cathy
Subj: Re:Food for thought 94-12-22 19:07:40 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
It's good to know I'm not the only one who over-researches. I had thought I'd reached the point where I wouldn't do that anymore...but this particular article was worth so much money for such a big-time magazine that I think part of the problem was intimidation. I just sort of figured I had to know (and somehow get into 2500 words) EVERYTHING about my subject -- i.e., I did myself in. But the experience has certainly taught me a lot about how I work, think (and react to a sequence of Ph.D.'s). I think I'm gonna write it all down and refer to it every time I start an article. Another interesting thing I found is that when I'm away from actually writing for too long, it's very difficult to get back into the groove again. Another Ph.D. with a basically unpronounceable name has written a book about the whole process of being focused, creative, productive, and essentially joyfully involved in your work. He calls it "flow." I've found, for example, that if I've been away from actual writing for more than a few days, it may take me one to two entire days beating the keyboard to death to get that "flow" going again. What sort of experiences have the rest of you had with that? (BTW, it's been really interesting so far...)
Subj: Free advertising opportunity 94-12-22 19:40:54 EST
From: JEDJames
Posted on: America Online
Free classified ad space is still available for the premier issue of artisan, a tabloid journal about "the arts" and artists, musicians, writers, dancers, etc.
Please don't get the wrong idea!!! I got burned by another bulletin board for "advertising" in the wrong area. I have this space figured into my layout but since it's the first issue, not a lot of ads so far. I am not selling anything, just trying to do my layout and maybe a fellow artist or writer a favor.
If you are interested (it can't hurt) E-mail your classified ad to JEDJames@aol.com (25 words or less) exactly as you wish it to appear. Initial distribution is small but spread all over the country, so be sure to include your city/state if applicable.
Include your mailing address and receive a complimentary copy!
We reserve the right to edit ads for length and to decline ads with inapproriate content.
Subj: Re:Food For Thought 94-12-22 21:57:36 EST
From: LizS598950
Posted on: America Online
Bridget:
I'm a newspaper editor who works with a number of freelancers. Begin with an outline. For my paper, I tell newcomers to try outlining. Begin with 1,500 words; reserve 500 for entry/exit. That gives you 1,000 words to work with. If you have just 1,000 words, you're going to learn quickly how much you can do. (P.S., I also freelance on the side, so I know your quandry.) Good luck, Liz
Subj: AOL and Privacy 94-12-22 23:01:27 EST
From: LTABA
Posted on: America Online
Thought this might be an interesting addition to the discussion of bulletin usage. From the Jan. 2, 1995 issue of Marketing News (Biweekly from the Am. Marketing Assoc.): "Rep. Edward Markey (D. Mass)...took issue with an ad that ran in the Sept. issue of DM News. The ad publicized a list of 1 million active members of AOL and said marketers could receive data on members' computer equipment, gender, running charges, home and business addresses, income, children by age, and other information. ..AOL says it only provided subscribers' names and addresses...all additional data 'are derived by matching...against publicly available census and other data bases.' AOL's president Case said the company has 'recognized the need for a more formal code of conduct.'"
Puts writers' use of AOL's services in a bit of a different light. Perhaps this is old news to some...
Subj: Re:Food for thought 94-12-22 23:24:55 EST
From: Cath803
Posted on: America Online
Bridget ---
I have found, too, that even *knowing* that I can overresearch things doesn't always prevent me from doing so. At least once a year I go overboard. And I don't recognize it until its too late -- the time is already wasted.
Who wrote the book on flow? I've heard of the concept/term before. I know it when I experience it, but its sure not something you can force. "Beating the keyboard" is a perfect description for that "pre-flow" day or two. (Which, I have found like you, lasts at least a day or two when launching into a new project.) One friend sends me "freelancing s**ks" faxes on those days. Another friend advises attempting to write only the lead on those days, and not even worrying about the rest until later. Makes the monumental task before you more manageable.
I often find that taking a shower or doing dishes helps to get things going. Is there some weird connection with flow here? Lying down also helps sometimes, but too often I fall asleep. And then the whole afternoon is shot!
Subj: Re:Food for thought 94-12-23 09:07:34 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
Bridget asks:
<<...how long did it take each of you to figure out who you were as a writer, how you wrote, what did and didn't work for you, and how you know when a piece you've written is really, really good or just good enough?>>
I'm still working on that one. But then I've only been doing this for twelve years. I'll get back to you when I have an answer....
-steve
Subj: Re: Food for thought 94-12-23 11:20:19 EST
From: Madamjoy
Posted on: America Online
There's definitely a lot to be said for NOT over-researching. I find that the fatter my folder of notes and information, the harder it is to write the article.
It's a "can't see the forest for the trees" problem. One of the most unwieldly projects I ever did was a travel story on Brooklyn, where I've lived for 17 years.
Sometimes the less you know about a subject (at least at the beginning), the better!
Re the money/time ratio, I caught myself doing an interesting psychological number recently. I was getting paid $2,000 for an article, so -- even though I could have tossed it off quickly and painlessly -- I dragged it out, perseverated, agonized, until I figured I'd put in two grand's worth of suffering. Luckily, I noticed my own machinations, and have flushed this kind of nonsense down the proverbial toilet.
The book on flow is called "Flow" and was written by Michal something-with-a-C, or Cz....
He wrote a more recent book called "The Evolution of Self," elaborating on the same notion. I like the *idea* of falling into a sort of meditative state where the hours fly by as you produce huge amounts of focused, worthy material. I've had that happen to me maybe twice. Dr. Cz is very down on using any sort of mind-altering chemicals to produce or enhance a flow state. I could do without his moralizing.
Happy holidays, everybody!!
Subj: Re: Food for thought 94-12-23 12:15:54 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
I guess I should know not to reference a book on this board without giving the full name, title, etc. The book on flow is: "Flow, The Psychology of Optimal Experience." The author is: Mihaly Csikszentmihaly. Now say that three times fast.
Regarding outlining. A great technique and one I use all the time -- except that it almost got away from me on this piece. But in the end, I did an outline and it saved me. However, I'd never heard the suggestion that for a 2500-word piece you reserve 500 words for start and finish. Great idea! Great thoughts. And Steve Moril...come on! After 12 years, you can offer better insights than that!
Subj: Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays 94-12-23 15:20:45 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: America Online
To all of those here ~
wishing you a bright and Merry Christmas. May the holidays bring peace of mind and happiness ~ may you have joy overflowing ~ may no snow creep into your boots ~ and may the New Year bring a profitable bounty of assignments and exciting projects!
Peace.
Leese
Subj: Re:Vanity Fair 94-12-23 16:32:17 EST
From: Copy89108
Posted on: America Online
Send a letter to the editor asking for guidelines. The editor will not be the one reading it, but you'll get all your questions answered. It's that simple.
Subj: Re:Snow in boots 94-12-23 23:49:06 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
It was 62 degrees here today, one of the lowest temps we've had lately. No snowmen in Houston, ever. But in July, when it's 100 degrees and 100% humidity, you should see the folks out walking their goldfish!
Happy holidays to all and hoping Santa is bountiful in assignments for 95, too.
Brigitta T
Subj: Re:Snow in boots 94-12-24 07:00:51 EST
From: CharlieDIY
Posted on: America Online
It's going to be pushing 60 here for Xmas, but we'll find ways to pretend, as always.
May Christmas be bright for all of you, and the New Year bring rewards, both all those deserved and many others.
Subj: Re:Food for thought 94-12-25 17:58:13 EST
From: Danyl FL
Posted on: America Online
Cath803 wrote:
>>>I often find that taking a shower or doing dishes helps to get things going.
Is there some weird connection with flow here?<<<
I absolutely think so. Isaac Asimov once wrote an essay called (I think) the Eureka Theory. He basically said that if you put your conscious mind to work on something else, your subconcious mind will work out the problem eventually. If I'm really stuck on a project I'll do everything from clean the apartment to going to a movie. It works almost every time.
Dan
Subj: Re:Freelancer letterhead 94-12-26 09:42:26 EST
From: PAVEL
Posted on: America Online
Buddy, I hope you had the presence to ask for her name. I've found that most of the credit card companies are very customer service oriented--when you go high enough up the chain. There's too much competition for them to be rude like the agent you referred to. If you have the name, call and ask for a manager and suggest that if they don't want your business... You might also throw a fit about the amount you get as a high-demand freelancer, what each minute bills at...and suggest they cover your wasted time through a cut in your finance charge for that month. It does work and I find that such aggressive response tactics make the company treat me better in the future. I know that in several cases, companies (credit cards, airlines, etc) have reference info on me in their files and are more likely to back down or "see it my way" in a dispute because they know 1)I give them lots of business 2)I'll bust their ass if they try to hassle me.
good luck! Pavel
Subj: RE freelance 94-12-26 09:45:51 EST
From: PAVEL
Posted on: America Online
I've said it before and I'll say it again for those who missed the last thread on the topic of the word "freelance": It has come to be taken as a pejorative. I realize the word might have a noble derivation, but it really doesn't help if the folks we're dealing with don't see it that way.
My alternative has been to create a solid-sounding name for my operation. In this case, "The Detroit Bureau." And I refer to myself as either "an independent," or as "an independent news service." It works--well. I can't begin to keep up with the demand. While my personal skills obviously play a role, anything that gets you in the door and then taken seriously will certainly help!
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 94-12-26 09:52:57 EST
From: PAVEL
Posted on: America Online
Jim: I've got to agree with Rogier. While I would also recommend sensitivity, I do believe that a posting is in the public domain for a journalist, just as a notice posted on the wall of a private club the journalist has entered (legally, of course) is public domain. There is a distinct difference were the writer to somehow get hold of some E-Mail. You may recall the case regarding J.D. Salinger's private letters. But this note is going out to anyone who signs onto this particular forum. And as you may note, AOL is not in any way selective about who gets on-line, considering the number of freebie disks you find. So, if they're foolish enough to take me to court for quoting, they might wind up with a court case that would ultimately erode the control they THINK they're justified to claim.
It is getting very close to the time when the courts will have to deal with the issue of on-line freedoms of speech. Considering the nature of the wired world we're creating, I feel confident the courts will side towards openness, even with the Clarence Thomases!
pavel
Subj: magazine workshop has flu 94-12-26 16:04:14 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Happy Holidays gang!
I'm sad to report that I spent my christmas sniffling and sneezing with a 102 fever that still won't relent. We will meet again on January 9th at 10 p.m. EST in the writer's workshop.
Happy New Year to all!
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Food for thought 94-12-26 16:08:24 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
JoAnnGr writes: " That way a $300 piece that takes me three or four hours is worth a lot more than a $1500 piece that takes two months--I would NEVER do that! "
I've caught an awful lot of grief on these boards for demanding more than $1 a word. Interesting thing is, I often spend *months* on such pieces. I ask for a lot because I put a lot into my work. And I have no idea what it's like to spend three or four hours on an article. To me, that sounds like a luxury.
Subj: Tricks of magazine SELLING 94-12-27 01:26:17 EST
From: Meyeroff
Posted on: America Online
Folks, if you're in NYC or environs you might want to consider the course given by EFA this coming Feb. It's the fourth (or fifth) time it's been given and it's almost always a sellouteee (20-person maximum).
The title? "So You Want to Be a Magazine Writer." The teacher? MOI. Warning -- this is NOT a how to write course; it's about how to SELL what you write. In three hourse I teach everything from how to analyze a magazine for greatest query impact, tell you how FOB can be the biggest money-making letters you ever heard and how to set an "hourly wage" as a magazine writer.
If you're interested, you can still call EFA to register. Just call the 212 information ask for the number (sorry, since touch-dialing I don't memorize phone numbers anymore). If it's not under EFA ask the operator for the Editorial Freelancers' Association.
Subj: Re:Tricks of magazine SELLING 94-12-27 09:07:12 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
I was under the impression that this board was intended for an exchange of views, not advertising. I have some things I could advertise, too. So, I imagine, does everyone here. But if everyone decides to start advertising here, I won't be here any longer. Does anyone else feel this way?
Subj: re: tricks to magazine... 94-12-27 10:39:17 EST
From: Quebecoise
Posted on: America Online
Wait a minute Brigitta and Rogier... Posting a note about a class on magazine writing seems a pretty logical thing to do in a magazine writer's forum, no? What if someone else wrote about the workshop, and said it had helped them alot--would you still complain? It's not like he's trying to sell his car on this board or anything.
Hmm, did I just make two enemies on my first magazine post? Oh well, have a good holiday anyways! : )
Quebecoise
Subj: Re:Tricks of magazine SELLING 94-12-27 12:39:04 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Yes, this board is for the exchange of ideas, not resumes. I don't think promoting a class is such a bad thing, though. What bothers me is when people here post there CVs.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Tricks of magazine SELLING 94-12-27 15:50:40 EST
From: Cosmobull
Posted on: America Online
I just wanted everyone to know that I sell a customized bozo filter that automatically purges writers boards such as these from commercial postings like the aforementioned class; if anyone wants to purchase the product send $29.95 to Cosmobull@aol.com.
Subj: Re:re: tricks to magazine... 94-12-27 16:37:49 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Quebecoise:
Hmpfff, well, granted: a writing seminar falls within the TOPIC of this board, but not necessarily within its CHARACTER. It's like Bridget said: many of us might have something to sell here: a book, a newsletter -- or Grandma's antique fountain pen to help tide us over until the next check comes in... Hell, yeah, it's all got to do with writing. But wouldn't a board like this become very boring (a BORED, as it were), even useless, if we all indulged our money-making urges?
I see this area on AOL as a forum for a free exchange of magazine writer's ideas and experiences, not as an electronic advertising rag.
Oh, and Cosmobull:
Brilliant reply. I laughed. Loud!
(still giggling),
Rogier
Subj: tricks to selling... 94-12-27 21:00:46 EST
From: Quebecoise
Posted on: America Online
Rogier--sign me up for grandma's antique fountain pen. I love those things.
P.S. Yeah, you're right....the classified are the place for advertisements BUT...wouldn't a class that REALLY helps you sell magazine pieces be a great thing? Maybe I'm just having the "I've-sent-too-many-query-letters-this-season" blues.
Happy Holidays,
Quebecoise
Subj: bozos on the board... 94-12-27 21:27:24 EST
From: TAMiller1
Posted on: America Online
Trust me this board is VERY clean in regards to its content staying on the subject. I have been reading some of the writing forum newsgroups on the internet (Keyword: Internet) and half of the crap posted has nothing to do with the postings subject line, much less writing....I honestly don't think I have read a posting on the Internet (AOL Writer's Club NOT included) that sounded like it came from a professional writer.
I know I haven't experienced all of what the internet can offer...but I get a lot more useful information right here on AOL.
As the Eyewitness News Editorial Board says: "That's our opinion-What's yours?"
Terry
Subj: Re:re: tricks to magazine... 94-12-27 23:01:56 EST
From: Soonerdad
Posted on: America Online
I wonder if anyone could answer my question without it being considered an advertisement... I'd like to know if there is a list or database of magazines available to help facilitate submission of manuscripts. There are far too many pubs out there to read and research. Has anyone done this? Please e-mail me. Thanks in advance. -Sonnerdad
Subj: Re:re: tricks to magazine... 94-12-27 23:05:10 EST
From: Soonerdad
Posted on: America Online
Oops! The last message about a database of magazines was posted by Soonerdad, not Sonnerdad. Please e-mail if you know of a list or database of magazines to facilitate the submission of stories. There are too many to read and research myself. Thanks in advance! -Soonerdad
Subj: Re:re: tricks to magazine... 94-12-28 09:21:17 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
Soonerdad:
The Writer's Market, found in the writing section of any decent-sized bookstore, is a useful reference about magazines. But, sorry to say, there really isn't a substitute for doing the research of actually reading a magazine before you make your pitch.
Pitch a magazine you haven't read and chances are you will just embarrass yourself. Only by going through several copies of a magazine will you know the audience, the style of the stories, etc. and be able to target your pitch precisely.
You wouldn't write a story without doing the research would you? The same thing applies to marketing.
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources,Rogier 94-12-28 14:56:23 EST
From: AHVaill
Posted on: America Online
In replying to Rogier's post, Jimmor sez AOL isn't "public," but if it isn't why do writers worry about their magazine work being "published" there without additional remuneration? Anyone want to help unravel this conundrum?
Subj: Re: Food for thought 94-12-28 15:12:21 EST
From: AHVaill
Posted on: America Online
The flow guy is -- I think -- Cziksentmihalyi (I know I have some of those consonants wrong).
Subj: Re:Vanity Fair 94-12-28 15:17:50 EST
From: AHVaill
Posted on: America Online
Your best bet is to write to Graydon Carter, the ed-in-chief, enclosing clips and a c.v., and saying something like, "I have some ideas I'd like to propose to you. May I call you next week?" That way he can get an editor (the "right" one, if your clips and c.v. have been revealing enough) to call *you*. And if he isn't quick off the mark, you get to talk to him yourself. (I always try to make an appointment to see them, but realize this is impractical for someone not living in NYC.)
P.S. This is how I got "my" VF editor -- to whom, a couple of months later, I made a sale.
Subj: Re:Vanity Fair 94-12-28 18:37:16 EST
From: Elizaname
Posted on: America Online
Sorry....what's a c.v.?
Subj: ASJA December Contracts Watch 94-12-28 22:15:51 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
TO ALL:
The December ASJA (American Society of Journalists & Authors) Contracts Watch is out. It features news of TV GUIDE, INFORMATION ACCESS CO., AUTHORS GUILD, NATIONAL WRITERS UNION, ASJA, DIVERSION, GRUNER + JAHR, WORKING MOTHER,
PHOTO DISTRICT NEWS, LADIES' HOME JOURNAL, LONGEVITY and more.
A copy should be posted to the Nonfiction Library within the next few days (and if it isn't, I'll post it myself), but if you want a copy e-mailed to you, let me know. REQUEST CONTRACTS WATCH.
In addition, I have a copy of the Electronic Publishing Rights Position Statement by the Authors Guild and The American Society of Journalists and Authors. Issued October 18, 1993. Drop me a note if you wish to read this as well. REQUEST ELECTRONIC RIGHTS STATEMENT.
-steve
Subj: Re:ASJA December Contracts Watch 94-12-28 22:43:48 EST
From: Cath803
Posted on: America Online
Steve -- Isn't that part of the "confidential" section of the ASJA newsletter that is reserved for members only?
Subj: Re:Vanity Fair 94-12-29 00:44:30 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Eliza:
cv is curriculum vitae, or a listing of all the wonderful things you've done that show how swell you are.
Rogier
Subj: Whoa! 94-12-29 03:09:24 EST
From: Rightgirl
Posted on: America Online
I am **OVERWHELMED** by the sheer content and scope of these postings! You guys know your stuff...which is nice to find.
I'm a reporter for a major New Jersey newspaper, and I freelance as well. I'd like to join the fray, but frankly, I think I need a rest after reading all this material!
Hope to join your august company...
Debby
Subj: essay publication 94-12-29 11:30:39 EST
From: Mandcsw
Posted on: America Online
I'm a journalist, former columnist, who's trying to publish opinion/essays nationally. Mine are baby boomer-women issues. I'm interested in the experiences of others who write to this audience. Which pubs do you find most receptive? NYT Hers? (Takes about a year to hear, I understand.) The grocery store women's mags like Family Circle? Or is the market saturated? Thanks for any comments you can give me.
Subj: Re:ASJA December Contracts Watch 94-12-29 16:45:49 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
Cath803 writes:
<<Steve -- Isn't that part of the "confidential" section of the ASJA newsletter that is reserved for members only?>>
Negatory. This is something the ASJA wants made available to ALL writers. It is not a part of the ultra-secret newsletter of which I chew up and swallow my copy after reading lest it fall into nonmember hands. (In fact, the newsletter is so secret I only read it with one eyeball....)
-steve
Subj: Re: cv and CV 94-12-29 16:49:41 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
Dear RogierNL and Eliza:
cv is curriculum vitae to civilians, while CV is an attack aircraft carrier (non-nuclear) to military people. I know a couple of PR people aboard CVs who, should they retire to civilian life, could shop for new jobs with their CVcvs.
Just trying to uphold the substantive reputation of this board.
-steve
Subj: Making a switch 94-12-29 16:58:43 EST
From: Bleeds Ink
Posted on: America Online
Career change time.
I'm going to make the switch from writing and editing for a magazine to writing a newspaper column and it scares me to death. Even though I've written a few freelance pieces for the papers, I've never been put under the "daily" pressure and I'm not too comfortable with the lack of editing talent found at papers.
Does anyone have any tips on how to keep fresh and clean when writing several columns a week? Should I lower my self expectations when writing for a daily or should I strive to write "magazine quality" articles. Somehow, the lack of time seems to make me believe I'll have to find some sort of middle ground.
All thoughts and comments are appreciated.
Subj: Re:Bleeds Ink 94-12-29 18:21:20 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
It's not clear to me why the two (writing for a magazine and writing a newspaper column) are exclusive. Assuming they are, however, you will naturally have to make some changes in the way you write. You shouldn't have to lower the quality, though, unless it's a truly inferior newspaper.
Subj: Re:Flow 94-12-29 18:29:26 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
For the benefit of those who apparently missed it the first time, the author of FLOW: The Psychology of Optimal Experience is Mihaly Csikszentmihaly. It is a Harper Perennial paperback, sold in bookstores for $12.00.
I get 10 cents for every copy sold through this notice, so everybody please go out and buy one right now. Make sure you tell the bookstore Brigitta sent you. They're keeping track for Harper, (you can bet) and I'm waiting for my dinero. Since it has to do with books and reading, it must be okay to advertise this here, right? Especially if buying and reading Flow makes somebody, somewhere write better.
Subj: Re:Making a switch 94-12-29 20:32:46 EST
From: LizS598950
Posted on: America Online
Don't be so hard on yourself. You got the job based on your talent.
I'm an editor and what I want is readable, interesting copy. I don't want copy I could write myself.
Suggestion I give my regular writers, columnists: Think ahead and read everything you can find. Good luck!
Subj: Re:Vanity Fair 94-12-29 23:00:55 EST
From: AHVaill
Posted on: America Online
C. V. stands for curriculum vitae (a fancy latinate way of saying resume without requiring accent marks which you can't do on AOL).
Sorry for unintentional obscurity.
Subj: Re:Making a switch 94-12-29 23:08:53 EST
From: AHVaill
Posted on: America Online
Dear Bleeds,
A veteran NYTimesman of my acquaintance swears that the best thing that ever happenedto him was having to turn out material on a daily basis -- he says he had to rip it outof his word processor and get it right (or right-ish) right away, and not sit around wringing his hands over the perfect phase or transition or lede.
Actually, in my opinion this guy is a pretty good stylist no matter what -- he's not some ham-handed ink-stained wretch trying to excuse his lumpy prose, but someone who feels the discipline of a daily column was good for him. Hope this is encouraging.
Subj: The daily grind 94-12-29 23:26:19 EST
From: PAVEL
Posted on: America Online
I've got to agree with the last posting. IF--and I do mean IF--you have the constitution to stand up to a daily deadline, it is a real positive experience. It teaches you like nothing else how to think quickly, clearly and accurately, for if you don't, you'll quickly fall on your face. I started out as a full-time pro doing overnight newswriting for a news/talk radio station in Detroit and then started doing some field reporting during the day. And it was an invaluable experience.
Short deadlines do lead to ulcers, though, if you're not careful. And there are some negatives in how they start shaping your mental processes. It can be difficult to go back and enjoy the leisure--or use the bountiful blessings--of a longer deadline.
I was lucky enough to operate under both long and short deadlines during the next phase of my career, as a contractor for NPR. And by keeping both perspectives more or less simultaneously, I have been able to build up a freelance operation that ranges from daily broadcast and print to 6-month lead time magazine work.
So, Bleeds, good luck with the daily. If you can hang on to--and stomach--both that daily column and your long-deadline magazine work, you'll be way ahead of 90% of the independent journalists out there. Keep us informed, OK?
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources,Rogier 94-12-30 10:42:23 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: America Online
AH:
I'll take one last stab at answering your conundrum.
First, though, I think I called AOL a private service and referred to this as a "public" board on that service. When you log on, you sign a contract with AOL (the Terms of Service) implicitly agreeing that postings are copyrighted by the poster and AOL. Them's the rules. Ethically, legally, I think writers ought to follow them unless you have a very good reason. I just don't see how asking permission to quote posts is such a big deal.
Now, for the broader question(s).
I don't think there is an inherent contradiction between being "published" and a "private" service. A letter to another individual is private, but if I recall my law of the press courses correctly, something is "published" when you send it to another person (and thus you can be sued for libeling someone even in a private letter).
I think the problem -- the conundrum -- of cyberspace is that it doesn't fit neatly into the categories of communication and the legal guidelines for each that have been (sadly) established by the courts.
Our Monday night chats, for instance, are like (slow) telephone conversations.
This board is like a bulletin board in a private club where any member can cruise by and see what's there.
The Wired or Atlantic sections are as much magazines as their paper counterparts.
E-mail is private mail akin to sending a note via the U.S. Postal System (with all the legal protections that includes).
The newsstand and other reference outposts are akin to libraries.
You can also make an argument that AOL is a kind of bookstore. (This is what Prodigy has recently claimed in a libel suit; it says it can't monitor thousands of postings daily and therefore -- like any bookstore owner carrying libelous material -- is not liable).
The rights of readers and writers in each of those situations vary greatly. Where does cyberspace fit?
BTW, I'm not one of those anxious for a ruling from the Supremes on this, not even from a court with a fan of an expansive First Amendment view (such as, say, our most famous judicial consumer of porn, Mr. L.D. Silver Thomas). To me, no firm rules means there are no rules that can be explicitly broken and therefore everything can be challenged (and AOL's contract copyrighting posts can be changed with consumer pressure if we choose).
Subj: Re:Making the Switch 94-12-30 10:50:12 EST
From: Cosmobull
Posted on: America Online
I can't speak to the experience of writing for a daily, but as the editor of six column pages for a monthly magazine, I can suggest a few things that make columns work:
1) Be Authoritative. I think columns stand or fall on the reporting abilities of the writer, not the opinions. So know your subject--which is not to say that you can't write about your thoughts and feelings; who is a better authority on yourself? If you do write about yourself, however, be honest. (And I'm not saying don't be opinionated--just be sure to argue persuasively and elegantly.)
2) Know your audience. That is, write the column *to* somebody.
3) Read, read, read. Crib from the best. Personally I would love a columnist who was one part Dave Barry, one part Anna Quindlen, another Peter Drucker, a bit of Philip Lopate, with some Joe Queenan and Michael Musto mixed in.
Subj: Re:Making a switch 94-12-30 11:32:50 EST
From: BowTieBook
Posted on: America Online
Bleeds,
What is your subject matter, your area of specialization, going to be? Are you qualified in that area? If indeed you are going to colyumize about your special interest area, you won't have anything to worry about.
Writing is not done in a vacuum (though it seems like it sometimes in the queries I get -- or that appear on this board). The first rule is Write What You Know About. From there, good craftsmanship will make it successful.
Gene Booth
Subj: Re: Essays 94-12-30 11:56:57 EST
From: MoJoe1
Posted on: America Online
<I'm a journalist, former columnist, who's trying to publish opinion/essays nationally. Mine are baby boomer-women issues. I'm interested in the experiences of others who write to this audience. Which pubs do you find most receptive?>
In my experience, you shouldn't worry about which pubs are receptive. Certainly some magazines have back-of-the-book columns and some run more essays than others. However, there is no way to predict which will be particularly receptive to your style and ideas. So send your pieces out all over the place and don't worry if you've never seen an essay or opinion piece in the magazine before. I'd also suggest sending mutliple submissions unless you are sending a piece to an editor who you have a relationship with and will give you a quick reply.
Subj: essay writing/thanks 94-12-30 12:29:13 EST
From: Mandcsw
Posted on: America Online
MoJoe1: Thanks for your response to my essay query. I will take your advice. I don't know why I'm so nervous about this. I have been on staff of national magazine, written for WSJ and others. But the NY editor thing intimdiates me nonetheless. It's easier to pitch to the local newspaper, and that's something I aim to avoid this year: safe, predictable, easy, non-challenges. I will have to get over this rejection panic.
Subj: dany: going freelance 94-12-30 16:57:43 EST
From: FrankJ2092
Posted on: America Online
If you're crazy enough to do it, make sure you have good clips to begin with or go get them by writing for anyone who will pay and publish you. And find a regular gig--my best find has been business writing--they need copy and pay on time.
Subj: Re:Tricks of magazine SELLING 94-12-30 22:18:40 EST
From: CTUNSTALL
Posted on: America Online
Hey everyone if your interested my travel article is being published by Better Homes & Gardens Feb issue.....Take a look.
CTunstall
Subj: Re:Tricks of magazine SELLING 94-12-31 02:53:28 EST
From: SALECO
Posted on: America Online
Checks in the mail, Cosmo!
Subj: Resolutions 94-12-31 16:11:34 EST
From: Cosmobull
Posted on: America Online
Okay I know the notion of New Year's Resolutions is somewhat queer (in the seventh grade usage of the word, not eleventh grade), so maybe we could call them goals. I think one of the most important things for freelancers to do is set goals. What would people like to accomplish in the next year? What about three unreasonable goals, three reasonable ones, and I don't know, a surprise? I'll start:
UNREASONABLE (Or, Long-Term)
1) Publish one of the long middle of the book essays in Harper's.
2) Write an article that generates over one hundred letters, is mentioned by three other publications, and is optioned by a filmmaker.
3) Have a legislative body pass a law because of an article I wrote.
REASONABLE (Or immediate)
1) Write every day. Every day.
2) Average $1 word for all freelance.
3) Publish in either the New York Times Magazine, the Wall Street Journal op-ed pages, or Wired. Or all of them.
My wish for the next year is that just for one day freelance writer got paid like investment bankers and vice versa. (Okay my wish is that that were the case all year.)
Subj: Re:Resolutions 94-12-31 22:37:06 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: America Online
I'll bite, Cosmo.
Unreasonable~
1. One of my nonfiction book proposals will get snatched up for a big advance, and the first run will sell out in 90 days giving me ...
... 2. National notariety in the subject, as an "expert" of sorts, thus ...
... 3. I have publishers contacting my agent for additional work.
Reasonable~
1. I crack into one of the bigger mags (NY, of course) - - with anything. A filler. I don't care.
2. I land another couple of columns in modestly paying mid sized mags.
[my mainstay - - & I like it that way]
3. I find a reputable agent to handle the aforementioned nonfiction book proposals.
And, the extra "wish"?
An unexpected windfall will blow my way, enabling me to pay everything off & plunk some $ down on a plot of land. :::dreaming:::
Subj: Re: Bleeds Ink 95-01-01 23:18:23 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Tell us what your new column is about. That way we can feed you with daily ideas.
Subj: Re:Resolutions 95-01-01 23:19:21 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
I hate doing these because I never follow through. But here goes.
1) clean my desk.
That's it. I know there's a pot of gold somewhere underneath something.
Happy New Year to you all!
Jennifer
Subj: Glitch in mid-December 95-01-02 13:13:54 EST
From: THopeB
Posted on: America Online
For anyone who missed my numerous postings about the system-wide glitch during the week of 12/12....
There actually was a technical explanation for this system-wide glitch and I'll be glad to sift through my mail for anyone who wants to read the technical wording. This "glitch" deleted 1-2 days of postings and then put most, but not all, of the postings back. That's why the postings are out of chronological order in most folders.
From what I can tell from comments, etc., it looks like all of the WC postings got "put back", but a few of the new folders created during this glitch period were permanently deleted. I guess we should almost count ourselves lucky. The "Classifieds" forum had thousands of ads wiped out....
Tracey, Writers Club
Subj: Re:Quoting online sources 95-01-02 19:06:07 EST
From: Hautlynx
Posted on: America Online
What I prefer to do, both because it seems courteous and because it would seem to prevent problems later on, is to email the person whose quote I'd like to use, ask permission and reconfirm the statement. That way, it's a direct quote from the person, not just picked off the board and no one can complain.
Subj: Re:resolutions 95-01-02 22:31:19 EST
From: Danyl FL
Posted on: America Online
Resolutions:
1) I will drift into ever deeper pools of emotional disarray.
2) My personal life will continue to suffer as I spend all free time worrying about my career.
3) I will gain weight.
I've decided only to make resolutions I know I can keep.
Dan
Subj: Re:resolutions 95-01-03 01:09:44 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
I cleaned my desk. Four large garbage bags later...no gold.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:ASJA application 95-01-03 10:36:36 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Rogier:
I've been away for a few weeks, so please excuse my delay in responding to your post regarding ASJA's $100 initiation fee, the $25 application fee and the annual $165 fee.
You wrote:
<<I can understand that they want to separate the wannabes from the pros, and have no real problem with any of these conditions, but I wonder what this initiation fee means, and how it differs from a full membership. Also, two months to process an application seems excessive, even a little impolite. What do you think?>>
I can't really answer your question about the intiation fee, so why don't you call and ask them? I remember when I applied for membership, once I was admitted, the organization was really good about sending me about a year's worth of back issues of the members-only newsletter, plus the old member directory (which is updated annually) to hold me over until the new one was available. Perhaps part of that fee goes towards supplying new members with all these materials.
As far as the two-month wait for an application to be processed, understand that ASJA has only two full-time employees. The rest are volunteers who, like us, must spend a large portion of their time plying the writing trade and earning money. So, getting paperwork pushed passed members may end up being quite slow because they are a very busy lot.
Hope this helps,and good luck!
Leah
Subj: Resolutions 95-01-03 12:00:57 EST
From: PoeWar
Posted on: America Online
Unreasonable:
1. Finish fiction novel. Have it published in mass quantities to rave reviews, getting me nominated as the new hip young novelist for the nineties. Doing loads of national talk shows, getting my picture in several society columns with assorted starlets, and finishing the year by signing a seven figure movie deal.
Reasonable.
1. Finish fiction book.
2. Finish non fiction book.
(Both are in editing phase.)
3. Get an article published by someone not based within fifty miles of my home town. (Tucson.)
4. Search for publisher / agent.
Subj: Legal kinda question 95-01-03 18:22:37 EST
From: Elizaname
Posted on: America Online
Does anyone know how the different tv guides work? I can't just create my own tv listing with the existing summaries but does anyone know where those summaries come from? I'd like to do a compliation of some old show summaries (for profit) and am not sure how to proceed.
Magazine tie-in--TV Guide is the most popular magazine in the country. (It might be beaten by the Enquirer but that doesn't work as well for a tie-in.)
Subj: Re: Resolutions '95 95-01-03 18:29:30 EST
From: RodMoore
Posted on: America Online
After reading Cosmo's first post regarding his resoltions, I have to admit that mine are pretty much the same. Except for getting published in WIRED magazine. That should finally happen next month.
Best wishes to all in '95!
Rod
Subj: Paperless office my foot 95-01-03 21:56:54 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Jennifer:
Wow -- four garbage bags! Praise for a task beautifully accomplished! I'm almost halfway through cleaning my own desk, and have only managed one so far. Did it take you days, too? Distraction is my number one enemy. Catalogs urgently need browsing -- after all, I'm about to throw them away. Some letters need answering -- will dash off one or two to 'reward' myself for the mess I've already cleaned up. And goodness, all those old receipts that need filing, or need attaching to expense bills that I should finally get around to typing and sending... Sigh. If I did my researching and writing as efficiently, I'd be in an asylum or in Chapter 11. Or both.
When I started reading about computers ten years ago, I was filled with awe and wonder whenever I read the phrase 'paperless office'. Anybody know what happened?
Rogier
Subj: Re:Food for thought 95-01-04 00:16:13 EST
From: Mrscocoa
Posted on: America Online
hello all
a word about time management - software. There are some really great time management software packages on the market. As a writer who went from the hectic pace of a daily newspaper to a weekly national magazine, now to full-time free-lancing, time management became my biggest problem. As a Christmas gift, my husband bought me Word Perfects Info Central. it's like having a datebook, phonebook and personal secretary all on your PC. I've become much more productive. Other good packages are Lotus Organizer, Sidekick and ECCO Simplicity.
Subj: Re:Paperless office my foot 95-01-04 08:37:55 EST
From: IRAD9
Posted on: America Online
Rogier,
I'm testing a solution for a paperless office.
Paperport by Visioneer is a
2/16/95 3:02:16 PM Opening ÒSystem Log 2/16/95.7Ó for recording.
tiny scanner (about 13 inches by 3 inches).
I can scan in documents, select areas that I want to paste in another document or create a new document with parts from several scanned documents.
Drag and drop (on a Mac) to fax or print the document.
Add annotation by using text notes (in any of your fonts), electronic sticky notes, and draw on the scanned doc or fax that you received.
Documents are saved in a variety of PICT or TIFF formats.
I've been testing it for about a week or so and love it!
It's been reviewed in many of the computer mags and is available for Mac and Windows for about $399 -$499 which includes OCR software.
This is a big help to get those 4 bags of paper down to 1.
Hope this helps,
Ira Dick<-recent grad of Steve Morill's fine class (Yes, this is a blatant plug for Steve...well worth it!)
Subj: magazine writers' chat 95-01-04 09:17:56 EST
From: Seym1814
Posted on: America Online
I am new to AOL and am already falling in love with this brave new world. Can anyone tell me what the bi-monthly "magazine writers' chat" is and which Monday is "every other"? Also I may need advice soon on how to stop cruising through cyberspace and actually get back to writing...
Subj: Re:magazine writers' chat 95-01-04 13:51:12 EST
From: Seym1814
Posted on: America Online
Oops...semi-monthly
Subj: Finishing Touches 95-01-04 14:19:09 EST
From: TROA
Posted on: America Online
This is for folks in the Washington, DC area.
On January 24, Washington Edpress (a nonprofit professional organization for publications and PR people) will sponsor "Before You See It: Putting the finishing touches on the News."
The program for the evening will feature Jim Barnett, supervising producer with CNN, and Alex Johnson, a copyeditor with the Washington Post.
Contact JennKorn through AOL if you are interested in more info.
Subj: can anyone tell me 95-01-04 16:20:18 EST
From: EWAscher
Posted on: America Online
how they're dealing with the electronic rights clause in the conde nast contracts? thanks. EWAscher
Subj: Re:can anyone tell me 95-01-04 16:57:15 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
EWAscher asks: <<how they're dealing with the electronic rights clause in the conde nast contracts? thanks. >>
I've not been able to get them struck from my Glamour and Mademoiselle contracts nor have I been able to get them to pay me more for those rights. I've been told that because I'm doing "little" stories that they don't warrant the extra bucks. I find that a little insulting, but I try not to lose sleep over it. I just make a point, each time I get one of their contracts, of bringing up the e-rights issue. I figure sooner or later something is bound to change.
Leah
Subj: Re:Glad I'm Back 95-01-04 19:44:19 EST
From: GRUFFNESS
Posted on: America Online
After a month's hiatus, moving from one town to another, I have just reviewed the folder from 12/12 and loved every drop. This is a great spot on the desert of literary life and all the excitment on the boards by all participants were read with gusto and thanks.
Subj: Re:Personal Experience Essays 95-01-04 21:56:41 EST
From: Juicer
Posted on: America Online
Hi, all. I confess I've been lurking for a while. Forgive me. Can you vets offer me some advice on where to start submitting personal experience essays? I've been told that these are often the best way to get those precious first clips. So far, I've only got clips from newsletters at companies at which I was an employee or intern, plus one clip in the Milwaukee Sentinel in the automobile advertisement supplement that is a vehicle for the Milwaukee auto dealers' association's PR. Thanks, folks.
Subj: Re:Paperless office my foot 95-01-05 00:55:55 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Hey Ira:
Serendipity, is all I can say. Yesterday, I was browsing the latest Mac's Place catalog, and they've got that scanner you were mentioning, which I'd already heard good things about (Mossberg in WSJ, about six months ago). Price still seems steep (almost 400 bucks), but if the OCR software's any good, and the user interface is as wonderful as I've heard it is, maybe it's worth it.
Questions:
* Is it a SCSI device? Easy to hook up?
* Does the OCR software work well? Even with small point sizes in the stuff you're scanning?
* Is it easy to scan material you've clipped from a newspaper, even if the size of the clipping is irregular?
* How much space (Kb) does one standard letter page take up after you've scanned it and converted it to text? (ballpark range)
* How long does it take to scan and convert one page?
* Why would you keep these files on your hard drive in 'a variety of TIF and PICT formats', instead as editable text only?
Sorry everyone, I know this is not a techie board -- just taking a chance that other writers, might be interested in keeping their desks clean and their files handy, too. If we're boring you with this stuff, tell me and I'll send Ira e-mail instead.
Rogier
Subj: Re:Paperless office my foot 95-01-05 01:23:54 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Rogier writes:
When I started reading about computers ten years ago, I was filled with awe and wonder whenever I read the phrase 'paperless office'. Anybody know what happened?
Good question! But I have no answer. No, it didn't take me days, only hours. And to finish off the task I paid all my bills. I feel so, er, responsible.
Subj: Re:can anyone tell me 95-01-05 01:26:15 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Re: conde nast contracts. I just got two of them. I fought successfully to retain my rights in Austrailia and New Zealand, but failed shamelessly to retain my electronic rights.
Subj: Re:Paperless office 95-01-05 11:41:49 EST
From: IRAD9
Posted on: America Online
Rogier,
First, I'm on a Mac platform , so these answers may vary for the DOS/Windoze crowd...
>>* Is it a SCSI device? Easy to hook up?
It plugs into your printer or modem port.
If you use it often, it'd be wise to purchase an A/B switch.
* Does the OCR software work well? Even with small point sizes in the stuff you're scanning?
Any OCR depends on the size and font of the input.
It varies is the answer... doesn't always work well.
They use Calera OCR software included by Textbridge by Xerox and others will work as well.
* Is it easy to scan material you've clipped from a newspaper, even if the size of the clipping is irregular?
EASY ! It'll even trim off the black portion of a ripped out clipping.
You can scale the size also.
* How much space (Kb) does one standard letter page take up after you've scanned it and converted it to text? (ballpark range)
If I recall offhand about 50K depending on whether it's all text or you have graphics which will take up more space (especially photos).
* How long does it take to scan and convert one page?
PDQ... again pure text scans very quickly, more graphics take longer, but still seconds rather than minutes.
* Why would you keep these files on your hard drive in 'a variety of TIF and PICT formats', instead as editable text only?
I'd keep the mixed PICT and TIFT if I wanted to keep a composite clip to fax or print out later.
For example, I scan the masthead, then the article, which may be on two or three pages with the photos or graphics included, then paste it all into one nice, neat, page which is then best stored in the PICT format.
I can then simply add my personal annotations in text, drawing lines, arrows, free hand circles, and stcky notes.
So far, I find that it has one of the easiest interfaces I've come across..
Pure text can be converted to a Clarisworks document for example.
Hope this helps...we now return you to the regularly scheduled postings....
Ira Dick
PS: I reviewed the LabelwriterXL Plusfor MacHome Journal January '95 issue so I know simple interfaces and not so simple interfaces.
Subj: Re:Newspaper vs. magazine column 95-01-05 12:03:56 EST
From: Beerscribe
Posted on: America Online
It's great to write abt yr specialty but IMHO daily newspaper columns do require diff level of readability and more definitions of terminology -- for ex: I write abt beer for trade and consumer mags and newspaper column -- only the daily newspaper asked for a definition of "carapils" in a list of names of barley malts in a new brew. A specialist making the switch from a SI mag should be prepared to write for 6th grade reader in all columns for newspaper pub'n,
Subj: Re:Newspaper vs. magazine column 95-01-05 15:25:25 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: America Online
Generally much tighter writing, too for newspapers ... no great prose ... keep the vivid or descriptive words to a minimum (they'll get struck if you put 'em in anyway). Basically, shoot from the hip writing for newspapers & more freedom with magazines [IMHO].
Bear in mind, I'm no expert.
Subj: hi & some questions 95-01-06 01:29:16 EST
From: Inkdragon
Posted on: America Online
Hi all-
I tend to do far more reading than writing when it comes to this board, so I thought I'd speak up and say hi and ask another question..
I received a letter in late October from a magazine informing me that they had accepted my article for publication, but could not tell me yet when it would run, and also that I would be paid when it appeared. I wrote back as requested with my social security # and other info right away, and now it's January and I have not heard a thing. Should I be calling or writing to ask for an update or just sit quiet and wait? It is possible that they responded in the last 2 1/2 weeks and sent their letter to my college address (I'm home for winter break), although I did tell them the dates during which I would be at my home address. I certainly don't want to annoy the nice people who decided to publish my article, but at the same time I worry that maybe my letter to them was lost in the mail or something and don't want to miss out on my first publication by not checking up on things. Any suggestions?
Also -- thanks for all the very helpful and informative postings that have appeared on this board! Even when I don't have a specific question to ask I always learn something from other people's exchanges.. sorry if I'm getting all mushy on you guys, but I'm really glad this board (and all of you!) are here.. especially for beginners like me.
Happy New Year (somewhat belated)
Michelle :)
Subj: Re:hi & some questions 95-01-06 01:56:54 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Ink: I'd wait till you got back to school. If you haven't received any notice from the pub, give them a week or so. Everyone slowed down for the holidays and has yet to get back up to steam. But eventually I'd call.
Subj: Re:hi & some questions 95-01-06 09:35:18 EST
From: Seym1814
Posted on: America Online
I agree with Citywoman--especially the "then call" part. No editor is going to ding an accepted story simply because a writer calls (and a businesslike call isn't annoying, it's just business); editors are usually overworked, often under organized, and many times grateful when someone else takes the initiative. If, however, the story was not scheduled when it was accepted, it may still not be scheduled--don't be disappointed if you don't get a concrete answer, but also don't think that no answer means a change of heart on the editor's part. If you don't get an answer, keep checking in with the magazine regularly. Remember, you put your time and talent into the piece and you haven't been paid; if you think of your writing as a valuable commodity that deserves to be compensated just like any other professional service, you'll find it much easier to deal with editors.
Subj: re: hi and some questions 95-01-06 10:44:55 EST
From: Quebecoise
Posted on: America Online
Hi Michelle,
I don't think there's anything wrong with a friendly call asking what's up with your story. (And making sure they received it). They'll probably just tell you when its scheduled, or that it isn't scheduled yet.
Though most editors are busy, most are happy to take a brief call from someone whose story they've accepted. And once you've got her/him on the phone, why not pitch another story?
Good luck,
Quebecoise.
Subj: Re:can anyone tell me 95-01-06 14:41:07 EST
From: AHVaill
Posted on: America Online
Leah and EWAscher: I got the elec. rights clause removed from one Allure contract -- in fact, the magazine sent me the "old" contract after I requested numerous changes in the "new" one. Altho CN said this was a one-time-only favor, I agree with Leah that we have to keep asking -- nicely -- until they get tired of hearing it and do something about it permanently and officially.
Subj: Re:Paperless office my foot 95-01-06 14:45:35 EST
From: AHVaill
Posted on: America Online
Rogier and Ira, please email me specifics about the scanner you're discussing, if you should decide not to post info on the board. I've been thinking about just such a device for a while (it wld be invaluable as a research tool for me, particularly if it can be attached to my Powerbook) and have basically been waiting for the technology to get small enough, sharp enough, and cheap enough. Has it? Let me know.
Subj: Submissions requested 95-01-06 15:53:58 EST
From: Psitt
Posted on: America Online
ON WINGS is a monthly newspaper devoted to bird lovers and their birds. Both companion and native wild birds will be featured, as well as bird species world wide.
Expertise: With the exception of bird/human interest articles or interview, authors must demonstrate hands-on experience in the area about which they are writing.
Article length: 1000-2000 words.
Photos/Illustrative Material: Authors strongly encouraged to submit color or black and white slides with MS.
Subject areas which will be considered: Husbandry and general bird care, breeding, nutrition, avian medicine and research, avian behavior, emotional and spiritual aspects of bird ownership, spiritual aspects associated with birds by various cultures, legislative and regulatory concerns, conservation/ecology of birds, birds and the environment in US and abroad, falconry, bird photography know-how, field techiques of birding, cage and aviary construction, bird-oriented travel experiences, bird club news on local, state, national, and international levels.
All submissions must be accompanied by a SASE, otherwise they cannot be returned. Payment for accepted submissions is upon publication. Allow minimum of three months for response. Send submissions to Editor-in-Chief, On Wings, P.O. Box 8309, Northfield, IL 60093, USA.
Subj: Re:Legal kinda question 95-01-06 17:10:26 EST
From: BowTieBook
Posted on: America Online
Elizaname,
When I was producing the magazine/station guide for a local PBS outlet, the listings came from the network press office about a month ahead of time. As press release material, I don't see any copyright problems lurking around there.
Gene Booth
Subj: re: hi and some questions 95-01-06 17:16:33 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: America Online
Having just been grappling with this problem myself (I started the New Year with 21 requested articles out - nearly half since Sept. or before), I've come to the conclusion that if you want to be treated like a professional, you've gotta act like one.
IMHO, hestitating to assert oneself (ie. I just want to be accomodating), while it might encourage editors to "like" you, won't encourage them to respect you.
In one case, I sent out a requested article in July, waited until October to send a follow-up letter, and have sent 3 letters and called Chicago twice. I get absolutely no response. But, I've been very timid in my approach. Sort of, "If it wouldn't be too much of a bother, could you see if XXX still has my manuscript on his/her desk?"
IMHO, by doing this - - coming off this way - - I'm saying, "I'm not a real writer. I'm not making a living at this, or anything." Which is not to say that I feel I need to become a B**CH. There's a huge difference between being wimpy and being b**chy - and a lot of room for professional assertiveness.
:::stepping down off of my soapbox:::
Leese
Subj: Re:Submissions requested 95-01-06 17:27:33 EST
From: BowTieBook
Posted on: America Online
Psitt,
How much does On Wings pay? What rights?
Gene Booth
Subj: Re:negotiating 95-01-06 17:31:29 EST
From: Mrscocoa
Posted on: America Online
Hello all,
I'm still somewhat new to free-lancing, although as some of you know, I spent many years in the newspaper business. Anyway, I just had my fifth free-lance piece accepted since July. I feel good about where I'm heading, but I am not sure about negotiating fees. The Gazette, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's Sunday magazine, liked a query I sent them on depression. They wanted to pay me $400 for a 2,000 word story. I accepted, knowing that I had just made $700 for an 800-word story for Essence magazine. I know the Gazette isn't a national magazine, but I've worked in that market before I I think I could have gotten more money. Why didn't I ask for it? Well, because I'm new to free-lancing, I'm just so excited to get work that I'm afraid to ask for more money. Also, because I was a sportswriter for the last seven years, I'm trying to get as many non-sports clips as possible.
Am I doing the right thing? Just trying to get the clips for now. Or should I try to get more money no matter what?'' And how do I handle negotiating. I don't know why I'm so afraid to ask for more money.
Subj: Paperless office 95-01-06 20:39:18 EST
From: Elizaname
Posted on: America Online
Just a technie reminder---if you have a paperless office, make sure you have an outstanding backup system for your computer.
If you don't, all sorts of evil things can happen to cause a loss of power and other computer ailments. And if you don't have anything on paper, this would be a disaster.
Subj: MrsCocoa and negotiating 95-01-06 23:00:18 EST
From: LTABA
Posted on: America Online
I too was once shy about fees. I've since discovered that there is little downside risk in negotiating. No one has ever said, "Well, we really wanted your piece, but now that we know you want a little more, forget it." I usually say something like, "You know, the way I see the story, it's going to require a lot of research and legwork. Couldn't we go to (add 25%). Quite a few times I've gotten it--or more than I would have. If you don't ask...
Subj: Re:MrsCocoa and negotiating 95-01-06 23:25:01 EST
From: Cosmobull
Posted on: America Online
I don't know a lot about negotiating but I learned one crucial secret--the best time to ask for more money is right at the very beginning, right from the get-go when the piece is assigned. That's when you have a position of strength--they want your piece--and that's when the negotiating should take place. See, buying an article from a freelancer is more like a transaction in a car lot or an open bazaar than people realize. There is always room to bargain on the part of the editor, always. And the best trick is, even when they use their
George-Foreman-I'm-not-going-to-pay-a-lot-for-this-article voice you immediately reply, nicely, but with arched eyebrows, "Oh? Well, I'm used to getting (anywhere from 25 to 75 percent higher) for a piece of this length and this much research." You don't have to be confrontational or aggrieved--but definetly ask for more when the initial offer is made. Always. They have the wiggle room. Take advantage of it.
Subj: Re:Paperless 95-01-07 07:02:28 EST
From: IRAD9
Posted on: America Online
AHVail,
I have one for evaluation and will be demo'ing it at the Hartford User's Group Exchange Meeting in February when our topic will be digital imaging.
I'll email you more on the Paperport...
And in my opinion, it is small enough and cheap enough to justify spending the $399... and a perfect tool to go along with a Powerbook and Stylewriter ..
Ira
Subj: Re:fees-and asking for more 95-01-07 20:22:20 EST
From: GRUFFNESS
Posted on: America Online
My way is to compare what you are selling to previous articles in mag. If your article is "better" and will benefit the mag more, then ask for more. If you have 'exclusive' material that will be a feature,or a cover piece, ask for more. If your piece will outshine their previous material, ask for more. You cannot lose.
Subj: WRITING ABOUT CELEBS 95-01-07 20:23:50 EST
From: VRWORD
Posted on: America Online
I have a question. I am working on a story which is a humourous take-off of a celebrities life. I want to use the real name of the celebrity. Since this person is a public figure, can I be sued if I poke fun at his life?
Subj: E-mail queries 95-01-08 14:44:24 EST
From: Sharon LM
Posted on: America Online
I know this topic is old, but I am new to the folder and wondered if the e-mail query library ever got started. If not, I would like to let you all know that Veggie Life, FRESH, Wood Strokes, Tole World, Growing Green and Nourish are all on-line and will accept on-line queries. I would also be happy to answer any questions you may have about our publications. We do not steal stories, and we do pay for everything we print.
Sharon Mikkelson, editor FRESH and Wood Strokes
Subj: Re:MrsCocoa and negotiating 95-01-08 21:04:22 EST
From: MoJoe1
Posted on: America Online
Another key to negotiating, I think, is to establish a firm basis of your worth before you even begin. I know too many writers who approach negotiating as a game -- I'll ask for 25% more, but I'll accept anything -- and then kick themselves because they are working for too little. I found that I only started making real money as a freelancer when I began asking for what I was worth and walking away when I didn't get it.
Subj: Re:Expenses 95-01-08 22:57:00 EST
From: PJKIGER
Posted on: America Online
Hi. Just happened to see your post about expenses.
I used to worry about that problem also, until I noticed how loose magazines were when it came to editorial expenses--I mean, editors seem to think nothing of sending a magazine clip to you by Fed Ex, or running up a $50 lunch tab for a meeting.
I would submit everything, so long as you have it carefully documented. . I even put it on a magazine's tab if an editor calls me during editing or fact-checking and I have to call him or her back long-distance. The only thing I don't usually put on a mag's tab are meals when I'm travelling.
--pjk
Subj: earthquakes 95-01-09 01:13:10 EST
From: Timcam
Posted on: America Online
Anyone know any magazines that would print an article(or at least read it)
about earthquake survival tips. It doesn't seem to come under any particular category. ?
regards
Subj: Re:negotiating 95-01-09 01:41:15 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
MrsCocoa: It's always okay to ask for me. It's also okay for them to say no. But at least you know you tried. Usually they will up the price * a bit *, but never as much as we want.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:WRITING ABOUT CELEBS 95-01-09 01:43:08 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
VR: are you writing the truth about his life, or a parody of it? Does he know you are writing this article?
2/16/95 3:05:41 PM Opening ÒSystem Log 2/16/95.8Ó for recording.
Subj: Re:earthquakes 95-01-09 12:37:36 EST
From: TerrillH
Posted on: System
As an L.A. native, I feel that the story has already been done a lot. The Red Cross sends pamphlets home from schools and the T.V. news covers it. More interesting might be the preparation of news rooms for E.Q.s, as the monitors fell off high shelves at one station. If our communication sources are unprepared that could impact a lot of people.
Subj: Jan 10th Magazine workshop 95-01-09 15:24:16 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: System
Happy New Year Everyone!!!!
The time has come for another round of contract discussions. This is a heady topic in the folder, and I think we should share more thoughts in the workshop room. I look forward to seeing everyone tonight at 10 pm EST in the WRITERS WORKSHOP.
Bragger's Corner:
JoAnnGr: Had a story on an inn in New Hope in the December issue of MID-ATLANTIC COUNTRY. Has stories in the January issues of WEST MAGAZINE, ATLANTIC CITY MAGAZINE, A & E MAGAZINE and EMMY MAGAZINE. Has an banking overview article in the January 29th issue of the NEWARK STAR-LEDGER. Also has weekly articles in TRAVEL WEEKLY.
Wordspins:Her FIRST story was published in the January/February issue of MICHIGAN FLORIST. It was on merchandising silk flowers.
CharlieDIY: Just finished a book entitled MAKING SUPER SIMPLE BIRDHOUSES; Sterling Publishing.
Mrscocoa: Her story, "What to do if you've been discriminated against on the job" appears in the February issue of ESSENSE and an article on depression in a January issue of the GAZETTE(the weekly magazine for the PITTSBURGH POST-GAZETTE newspaper)
Dark Print: Has an article in the premiere issue of TODAY'S BLACK WOMAN; it will appear on newsstands on Valentine's Day. Has a story in the February issue of BYLINE; it's about a cat who moved into her family's funeral home.
CanDeed: Has a story in the January issue of MIRABELLA
Surchoix:"A Guide to Personal Investment '95," will appear in the
January issue of LOUSIVILLE MAGAZINE
TAMiller1: Had a new column start in the December issue of CAR AUDIO & ELECTRONICS MAGAZINE. Has another column starting in February in AUTO TRIM & RESTYLING NEWS.
AHVAILL: Her story on Sara Murphy appears in the January issue of VANITY FAIR
KellyPS: Had a story on toy trains in THE WASHINGTON POST; another about "What To Expect During the Toddler Years in THE BALTIMORE SUN. She wrote about restoring family treasures STYLE, a regional magazine.
See y'all tonight!
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Food for thought 95-01-09 15:31:34 EST
From: MJannot
Posted on: System
It's been a zillion years since I posted here. Please pardon my absence, and the fact that I'm reviving a moribund thread. (But I'm a bit surprised that this thread petered out so quickly.) On overresearching: There's been a lot of badmouthing it here, and boy am I sympathetic. I get buried as much as the next guy. But I've also written a couple of articles that were scarcely well researched enough, and doing the loaves-and-fishes routine with those skimpy facts is far less fun than wading through abundance. The huge benefit that overresearching gives you is the ability to weave those grandly knowledgeable asides and nuggets of information into an article, which wildly enhances your authority as a writer. Overresearched articles have far more texture than just-enough-researched ones, I say.
Besides, I can't really discipline myself to cut down on the research. I particularly am not good at taking stock of what I've got and structuring the article, etc., while researching. Mostly I go on huge fact-finding binges and shape it all into something coherent (throwing half away) when I finally sit down at my desk to write.
Generally it works, but not without some pain on the organization side.
Mark
Subj: Earthquakes 95-01-09 15:37:54 EST
From: Mandcsw
Posted on: System
I think outside of California might have a market for an earthquake story. Here in Texas just last week, an earthquake hit the south part of the state. It was minimal, like 1.3 Richter . Nevertheless, I imagine people who heard about it or live in that area are concerned. I'd try pubs in areas not normally thought of as earthquake prone (Texas, Okla, Missouri. Check with weather stats on that.
As a former Californian who feels so safe here away from quakes (but in midst of tornado territory) I'd like to know if there is indeed a risk and what to do about it.
Subj: Re:negogiating 95-01-09 18:38:45 EST
From: Mrscocoa
Posted on: System
Thanks so much for the advice everyone. I always thought I was selling myself short. Now I know I've been. I guess it's time to get bold. Besides, the worst they can say is no.
P.S. I have a query that I think would be great for Working Mother magazine. Problem is, I can't find the magazine anywhere on newstands here in N.Va. I'm talking I've been to the Giants Borders, Tower Books, Crown Books, Walden, drug stores, libraries, etc. I always see Working Women, Parent's, Parenting, Family, etc. No Working Mother. I've read Working Mother's guidelines, but I'd really like to read the latest copy without having to call the magazine and asking for it. This magazine has a circulation of more than 800,000, but must have lousy distribution. Anyone know what the problem is? This is driving me crazy.
Subj: Re:MrsCocoa and negotiating 95-01-09 20:11:17 EST
From: JoAnnGr
Posted on: System
I understand your dilemma, at the beginning it's the right thing to try and accumulate more clips, especially if you have a goal in site (non-sports clips). Still, as the others say, asking for more $$ never hurt. I always ask for more, and get it about half the time--even just a $100 or $200 jump can add up at year's end.
Subj: Intro - Ron Mader 95-01-10 10:19:15 EST
From: RonMader
Posted on: System
Subj: US/Mexican Border Business 95-01-09 09:31:44 EST
From: RonMader
An introduction. My name is Ron Mader; I'm a freelance journalist who works for several magazines - both in the US and Mexico (Business Mexico, Mexican Environmental Business, Texas Environmental News). My focus is the borderlands and I regularly cover environmental infrastructure.
I'm interested both in new outlets and contact with peers. Email me at RonMader@aol.com
Subj: WHOOPS 95-01-10 13:51:48 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: System
Like the ding dong I can sometimes be, I headlined last night's workshop as taking place on the 10th, which is today. Sorry for all those who were confused, and no, there won't be a workshop tonight...it was yesterday (and quite a good one, I might add!)
Sorry for the mistake. I think my New Year's resolution should have been to learn to distinguish my a-- from my elbow.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:hi & a question 95-01-10 23:00:58 EST
From: Inkdragon
Posted on: System
thanks everyone for the advice.. I'll be returning to school around the 16th or so and will wait until then to take any action. I'll let you know if I hear anything!
Michelle :)
Subj: ASJA Contracts Watch 1/94 - I 95-01-11 15:47:18 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: System
ASJA CONTRACTS WATCH -- Issued January 10, 1995
The American Society of Journalists and Authors encourages reproduction and
distribution of this document for the benefit of freelance writers. For more information: ASJA Contracts Committee, tel 212 997 0947, fax 212 768 7414, e-mail
75227.1650@compuserve.com
.......News of ATLANTIC MONTHLY, COSMOPOLITAN, HACHETTE FILIPACCHI, HEARST, HOME, LOS ANGELES TIMES, WOMAN'S DAY...
What will ATLANTIC MONTHLY's defense lawyers say about this one? In a message posted on December 14, 1994, an Atlantic Monthly Online representative explained the gaps in the magazine's AOL archives: "Unfortunately, we do not have the electronic rights to articles published before November 1993. For our archive, we act to secure permission for individual articles from the authors. Once we do, we place the article
online." So why, you might ask, has the venerable Boston journal licensed, without permission, a decade's worth of back issues for a variety of electronic uses, including CompuServe's Magazine Database Plus? Lawyers for the plaintiffs in the copyright infringement case backed by the National Writers Union, in which Atlantic Monthly is a defendant, will probably ask the same question as the case gets rolling this year and
defendants argue that, well, you see, ummm....
Dodging repeated criticism from writers, HEARST is fiddling with its notorious Contract From Hell. COSMOPOLITAN, for one, had been offering a version with no indemnification
provision (score only a small gain--the warranty is still too broad) and with a tightly rewritten extra-rights clause (gone is the phrase "in perpetuity throughout the universe"; perhaps Hearst is leaving Venusian deals to writers). Does the shorter clause mean less of a grab by Hearst? Nope: Cosmo continues to lay claim to the same assortment of licenses, electronic and otherwise, "for no additional consideration." Also untouched is
the magazines bargain-hunting clause, in which for a small one-time flat fee (20 percent of the article fee) it takes all profits from all resales to magazine and other periodicals throughout the world, forever. Forced to the wall, many Cosmo writers continue to sign away, but grumbling among Helen Gurley Brown's stable of regulars is reaching a high pitch.
Meantime, one COSMO writer reports having deleted the contract's electronic provision and made the nonexclusive right to reprint 'for a fee to be negotiated'; the writer was paid
without comment. (Since the terms would be unusual for Hearst, close follow-up by the author is called for.) Another writer reports a small concession in a different area: an increase in kill fee from the magazine's standard piddling 15 percent (which most regulars have long accepted as unbreakable Cosmo gospel) to a slightly less piddling 20 percent.
Another publication whose regular freelancers are meeting and talking among themselves is the LOS ANGELES TIMES, where staff reduction may give some extra weight to outside contributors at the same time that management has begun forcing a peculiar contract that claims all rights, including copyright, exclusively for five counties and nonexclusively for everywhere else. (Can you sell a copyright nonexclusively? Can you
exercise any remaining rights if you've sold the copyright? As Times lawyers ought to know, the answer is, of course not.)
(more)
Subj: ASJA Contracts Watch 1/94 -II 95-01-11 15:48:16 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: System
(continued from previous post)
HACHETTE FILIPACCHI MAGAZINES such as WOMAN'S DAY continue to give three standard contract breaks to writers who know enough to ask. (It's sort of like the restaurant adverts: Mention this ad and get a free glass of wine with dinner.") But writers who read and interpret the "improved" version recognize that the rights that matter still end up in Hachette's corner, still bring real profits only to Hachette, and still hamstring the writer who hopes to earn from secondary sales. (Adding insult to injury--and infringement to greed--America Online versions of Hachette magazines, including HOME and Woman's Day, claim copyrights to "all material" in Hachette's name.) As one Woman's Day freelancer summed up: "They can dress it up in ribbons and lace, and douse it with
perfume, but it still stinks."
Hachette's HOME magazine, on the other hand, has been willing to strip all extra rights from its contract, reverting to First North American print publication, and add back only a very limited electronic clause: a one-month license for use on its AOL online version, for $100 or 10 percent of the basic print fee. Editors at various Hachette magazines seem to have different marching orders, or at least different interpretations of their orders.
From the book world: Agent Rick Balkin, in the Bulletin of the Association of Authors' Representatives, writes that book publishers who handle foreign rights for their authors routinely keep 100 percent of tax credit returned to American payees. Why, he asks, shouldn't tax credits be apportioned according to the revenue split? If the author keeps 80 percent of the earnings, shouldn't the author receive 80 percent of the tax credit?
Pending resolution in court or an IRS opinion, he recommends that every book contract include a rider to claim for the author a pro-rata share of all tax credits.
Today's sermon: The days of setting to work based on a phoned go-ahead or informal assignment letter from an editor are over. Even if you've worked with the editor before, always wait for the contract: It may look different this time, and editors today rarely have the authority to make substantive changes. Remember: The more work you've put in, the more your back is against the wall if you try to deal. When agreeing to a deadline, factor in time waiting for a contract and time negotiating, and don't start work until everything is signed and countersigned.
Subj: ASJA 95-01-12 01:48:02 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: System
Leah, thanks for the contract info!
Subj: Re:Mensa 95-01-12 10:09:20 EST
From: AnneMz
Posted on: System
DaveArt569,
Why do you label Mensa as pathetic and stuffy? From personal experience?
Subj: Re:re: high IQ room 95-01-12 16:14:27 EST
From: Jimmor
Posted on: System
Massive insecurity complexes are so ugly aren't they?
Subj: Re:ASJA 95-01-12 22:48:08 EST
From: Mrscocoa
Posted on: System
Leah,
Thanks a lot for the contract info. I'm still new to free-lancing so I wouldn't want some editors to take advantage of me, or worse use me for the cheeper fee while they short-change other writers. As a former member of the New York Newspaper Guild, I know how important it is for writers to stick together on these things.
Subj: Re:High IQ 95-01-12 22:52:02 EST
From: Mrscocoa
Posted on: System
I heard a radio talk show host say a friend of his passed a test to enter Mensa and then threw a party for all his Mensa friends. It was in North Dakota in the dead of Winter and one of the Mensa guys shows up in shorts, smoking a cigar. "I was so glad to be as dumb as I am," the host said.
Subj: Source of Small Business Stories 95-01-13 15:50:45 EST
From: Opencity
Posted on: System
Need sources and anecdotes for any articles on small business, including start-ups and home offices? Open City Communications represents a dozen small businesses across the country in a wide variety of industries.
For more information, contact Phil Hall at Open City Communications, 212-714-3575 or Opencity@aol.com
Subj: re: thanks for the advice 95-01-13 23:19:00 EST
From: Danyl FL
Posted on: System
Hey gang, I just wanted to give you all an update on my plans to launch freelance. I've lined up a gig with a local marketing firm to edit two of their newletters. It's my first step in getting regular work. I wanted to thank everyone who responded for my need for advice. It makes the future a lot less scary.
Also, I'm starting a low IQ room for anyone who wants to discuss Beavis & Butthead, Saved by the Bell or Duckman. As you can probably guess, we will have a first discussion about cartoons. Next week we'll be highlighting Dumb & Dumber. Is this an accurate potrayal of stupid people, or does one have to get on the net to find the really idiotic?
Dan
Subj: dumb and dumber 95-01-14 01:52:45 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: System
And then there was the little news item that I saw on Reuters and Associated Press today, about the Mensa newsletter editor in Los Angeles who published an article that apparently said we ought to think about killing mentally handicapped people; and how unfortunate it was that Adolf Hitler got such a bad rap for wanting to create a master race. She got her ass fired faster than she could say Intelligence Quotient. And she still didn't understand why her actions were drawing (f)ire. Talk about intelligent!
Rogier
Subj: Re:re: thanks for the advice 95-01-14 09:45:13 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: System
Danyl FL, thanks for injecting some levity into thios dreary high-I.Q. discussion. The twit who threw the "I'm going to start my own high-I.Q. club here on AOL" hand grenade into this folder didn't say he was a member of Mensa. His actions would never have been condoned by Mensa.
What he DID do was get a lot of people here to railing about I.Q. tests, criticising a society of more than 50,000 people because of something they heard someone once say about someone, and even jumping on his case because he couldn't spell well.
I'm in Mensa. I don't spell any better than most. I don't think I.Q. tests are very good indices of ability to get along in life. And I'd like to see this folder return to talking about magazine writing. Can we PLEASE do that, and stop flagelating ourselves because we assume we aren't as smart as this twit?
-steve
Subj: Re:Danyl FL's suggestion 95-01-14 09:51:24 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: System
Danyl, Geez, my last message was stuffy. No, you're wrong about Bevis & Butthead. B&B is truly stupid. If you want to talk about Great Western Philosophy, as illustrated by The SImpsons now, I'm your man....
Best thing to come to philosophy since Arnold Schwarznegger and Clint Eastwood.
I'll be baaack.
-steve
Subj: Great Quotes on Writing 95-01-14 17:35:15 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: System
To take Steve's advice and get back on the subject of writing, I thought I'd toss out a quote:
"The most essential gift for a good writer is a built in, shockproof s- - t detector. This is the writer's radar and all great writers have it."
Ernest Hemingway
The same could be said, me thinks, for editors! Do you agree, Steve?
Subj: Re:Great Quotes on Writing 95-01-14 20:20:27 EST
From: CTUNSTALL
Posted on: System
Sgrief,
Funny you should use that quote, it is sitting right here on my desk, hand done with a wood burning tool by my husband.
CTunstall
Subj: Re:Great Quotes on Writing 95-01-14 23:13:16 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: System
Sgreif wants to know if I have Ernie Hemmingway's built-in b-s detector.
Well, sometimes I think the only one I have is on the bottoms of my feet. Things still get by me. You do learn--you learn faster if you write for newspapers, and fastest still if you write business stuff--to distrust anything out of the ordinary, anything too altruistic, too nice. That's a shame, but it's also a fact. You find yourself looking for motives for EVERYTHING. And there IS always a motive, even if it's only that the person likes being thought of as a nice person.
Writing can warp your view of humanity. Or maybe straighten it out. You decide....
-steve
Subj: collecting from deadbeats 95-01-14 23:58:48 EST
From: ImagN8tion
Posted on: System
Any tips on what to do now that I have won my small claims court case against former deadbeat editor?
The Money is key, but she deserves to be embarrassed as well!
Subj: Re:deadbeat mags, editors 95-01-15 07:20:24 EST
From: FockeWulf
Posted on: System
Having been burnt in the past by several mags for nonpayment, I wish that there was more publicity about them. Seems that this type of knowledge should be shared with everyone. Yet it appears most people keep this info private. Afterall, how much time and money is a writer willing to spend trying to collect $75 or $150? Perhaps there should be a deadbeat folder.
Subj: Re:deadbeat mags folder 95-01-15 12:29:02 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: System
<<Perhaps there should be a deadbeat folder.>>
There is. it's called the Warning List and is a feature of every American Society of Journalists and Authors newsletter. It's one argument for joining this--or other similar--nationwide writers organizations.
-steve
Subj: Re:Great Quotes on Writing 95-01-15 13:25:35 EST
From: Copy89108
Posted on: System
Steve,
You said "Writing can warp your view of humanity. Or maybe straighten it out. You decide...."
I think it does both at the same time. It's just a question of finding a balance between the two.
I do have another question for you (or anyone else who wants to take a stab at it)... as a writer, do you question your own motives too?
Copy
Subj: Re:Great Quotes on Writing 95-01-15 18:39:54 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: System
Copy asks ... >>as a writer, do you question your own motives too?<<
All of the time. Usually it's a question of, do I really have the passion necessary for writing this piece (and doing it well), or am I just out for a buck? I waffle on that one a lot. I generally don't pitch articles that aren't of some interest to me ~ and it's rough when the issues I AM passionate about don't fly as a story idea ~ but I've written some stuff that's of "minor" interest because I wanted the $$ and/or the clip.
For me, anyway, it's not necessarily about recognition ~ it's about cold, hard cash (I suppose to justify all of the time and effort I put into this writing life, when I could just be June Cleaver).
Subj: pricing help 95-01-15 21:29:41 EST
From: SMS Photo
Posted on: System
I have what may be taken as a very simple question, but at this point I am somewhat lost.
I was recently offered a position as a "beat writer" for a national 'niche' magazine. The position will require me to follow and report on a particular sport on a monthly basis.
The publication is circulated nationwide and has a circulation of about 35,000. It is a high class publication and is very well respected in its field.
The position will require out-of-town travel for as little as two days at a time to as many as five or 10 days.
The editor has asked me to submit a proposal detailing my "story fee." Where do I start?
In the past, similar work I have done for them has netted me anywhere from $250 to $450 per story and it has always been negotiated at the time of the assignment. Now, however, I am negotiating a set fee up front for the entire season (March to November). Some stories may simply require a couple of phone calls (good for me) while others may involve eight days out of town with me putting in 10-hour days (good for them).
I know this is rather vague, but I need to find a break-even point. Or, maybe I'm going about this pricing thing all wrong.
I am a lifestyles editor at a small daily newspaper and I also believe I am rather adept at negotiating magazine story fees on an assignment-by-assignment basis, but determining a price for the 'unknown' is foreign to me.
Any suggestions?
Stephen M. Schelb
Subj: Re nonpayment 95-01-16 00:50:06 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: System
Fockewulf writes: "Having been burnt in the past by several mags for nonpayment, I wish that there was more publicity about them. "
The ASJA and NWU commonly notes magazines that don't pay on time. Besides these and other related organizations, I don't think anyone else gives a damn, sadly.
Subj: where's the money 95-01-16 08:59:46 EST
From: Prokie
Posted on: System
I wrote an article, my very FIRST magazine assignment, for a small magazine. It was for their July/August issue. The mag is distribited to stores only, no subscribers. Apparently, they didn't get it out until Sept or so. Anyway, I never got paid and never got a clipping and don't even know if this mag exists, except that I did speak to an editor!!!! The editor keeps referring me to the business dept, and the "right" person is never there. I have e-mailed a bill, twice. My long-distance calls to this state have eaten up my pay, which was nominal. But I keep trying becuase it is my first article. I wonder if the mag really exists, as I can't find it anywhere. Any suggestions? I don't care about the money so much anymore as the clipping.
Subj: Break in 95-01-16 09:03:04 EST
From: Prokie
Posted on: System
I can't believe this. I'm having my first (see previous posting for a story I supposedly "sold" to a mag that doesn't exist) article published in a couple of months by LADIES HOME JOURNAL. Yes, I went from a zero to the big time. ( Just wanted to tell someone who understands.) I signed a contract and received payment already. Wow.
Subj: deadbeat mag 95-01-16 09:06:24 EST
From: Prokie
Posted on: System
OK, so do people still get a copy of the mag or clipping or are do these magazines really exist in the first place? All I want, now, is a copy.
Subj: Re:Great Quotes on Writing 95-01-16 20:00:11 EST
From: CTUNSTALL
Posted on: System
I do have another question for you (or anyone else who wants to take a stab at it)... as a writer, do you question your own motives too?
Copy,
Yep my motives are all monetary!
CTunstall
Subj: Re:Break in 95-01-16 20:02:50 EST
From: CTUNSTALL
Posted on: System
Prokie,
Congrats...feels good to sell to the big one doesn't it!
And I just sold my first piece in Cyper-space right here on AOL.
Subj: Re:Break in 95-01-16 21:39:43 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: System
Congrats to prokie and C - - :::::pats on backs::::
Subj: Re:Break in 95-01-16 23:02:45 EST
From: Mrscocoa
Posted on: System
Way to go Pokie and C
Subj: Re:re: high IQ room 95-01-17 02:08:23 EST
From: SusanHenry
Posted on: System
Gosh, there's already a Hi-Q place. It's called the Rush Limbaugh Show, and his IQ, he admits, is the greatest.
Subj: Re:re: thanks for the advice 95-01-17 02:12:53 EST
From: SusanHenry
Posted on: System
Dan, there must be a more bureaucrat-eeze pull-it-ick-lly ker-wrecked word for the room you propose to open and I'll join. I think it's the Dummie Group.
Sue, lookin through cracked glasses
Subj: Re:re: thanks for the advice 95-01-17 02:16:19 EST
From: SusanHenry
Posted on: System
In researching for my writing, I've found that humanoids require 3 to 5 bellylaughs and 20 chuckles, titters, and giggles per day for proper mental health. Levity is good for us, so lighten up.
Subj: Re:deadbeat mags, editors 95-01-17 02:25:46 EST
From: OrygOnLine
Posted on: System
I'm still carrying blisters from similar burns. A monthly newspaper offered me $50 per article + expenses and I took it because it's a varied, interesting, plum job.
Turns out they pay $25 and NO expenses, they run spreads of two or 3 related articles and pay as one, and besides that, they're in arrears from SEPT.
What do I plan to do? (1) Not send this month's copy. I've quit. (2) Drop little notes to advertisers.
Ory
Subj: Re:Great Quotes on Writing 95-01-17 02:30:11 EST
From: OrygOnLine
Posted on: System
I'm not passionate about everything I write about-- I write news features, among other things; but the things I AM passionate about, I write about. Do I have motives? You bet! Do I recognize that? Sure.
One of the best things about news and magazine journalism is that writers get to decide what's worthy of print. I not only report the news, I often decide what it is.
Subj: Re:deadbeat mag 95-01-17 11:15:27 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: System
Prokie wrote: <<OK, so do people still get a copy of the mag or clipping>>
I find that I often have to beg an editor to send me a copy of the magazine in which my story appears. Oftentimes, no one follows through and I end up spending my own money to buy the damn thing off the newsstand. When the pub is controlled circulation and not on the newsstand, like it sounds yours is, then there's a problem.
You said you've called and called to get a clip. What about sending a stamped, self-addressed envelope (9X12) and see if that gets a response? Worse case scenario, call the advertising department, ask for a media kit and then specifically request the issue in which your story appeared.
Good luck!
Leah
Subj: Re:contr. copies/clips 95-01-17 15:58:55 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: System
I guess I must be really, really fortunate, becaue I've always received at least one (and usually 3) copies of the publication or tear sheets for articles I've had published.
I just assumed this was the norm. Hmmm?
Subj: Re:Break in 95-01-17 19:32:33 EST
From: CTUNSTALL
Posted on: System
Sgrief,
Thanks!!!!
Cindy
Subj: Re:Break in 95-01-17 19:33:13 EST
From: CTUNSTALL
Posted on: System
Mrscocoa,
Thanks you too!!!
Its a first, a cyper-sale!
Cindy
Subj: Re:Entertainment Writer 95-01-17 21:12:51 EST
From: GRUFFNESS
Posted on: System
Cuurently write on entertainment and music personalities. Used to write for L.I.,N.Y. entertainment magazine-features and reviews and regular jazz column. Inerested, indeed.
Subj: Paperless office????? 95-01-17 21:59:37 EST
From: TAMiller1
Posted on: System
Well folks, I haven't been around this board since Jan 5. I covered the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas 5-10th and have been hammering out stories for days. I just got a little break and was checking all of the writer's club postings I have missed. I saw the talk about a paperless office and had to laugh. I shipped 70 pounds of press kits and literature back from CES by UPS....not to mention the stuff I brought with me on the flight home.
Awaiting for me was probally 25 pounds of mail and magazines to open and read.
Now that I am caught up, I dread doing all of the filling and sorting and OH KNOW ....taxes. My CPA is going to kill me...again!
Thats my .02 from my paperFULL office.
Terry Miller
Subj: HELP: Research Assistance 95-01-17 22:15:24 EST
From: JaneCoach
Posted on: System
I'm a first time user to the Internet. So, here goes! I need help gathering information from very successful executive level businesswomen who regularly work in the international business community. I'm trying to identify the abilities and/or characteristics of these women. I have a short questionnaire I've been using during in-person interviews. However, I'm now trying to reach a larger audience. Any ideas are welcome.
Subj: Re:Re nonpayment 95-01-18 07:07:48 EST
From: FockeWulf
Posted on: System
Thanks Steve & Citywoman. I'm familiar with the two groups, I should have been more explicit and was thinking more in terms of new or part-time writers who do not belong to any writing associations. Of course there are mags (Air & Space comes to mind) who do not always respond to queries (SASE used).
Then again, I think we should praise those magazines that pay on a timely basis or offer a kill fee. As an example, Soldier of Fortune recently declined an article I wrote for them. Behold they sent a check equal to $25% of what the published article would have paid. Writers often complain, but let us toot the trumpet for publications that act professionaly and responsibly.
Subj: Re:FREE Research Assistance 95-01-18 12:11:47 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: System
How is this different and/or better than profnet?
Subj: help with newspaper proposal 95-01-18 13:03:41 EST
From: Mo Olson
Posted on: System
I am going to be "pitching" a new restaurant review column to local papers. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has submitted a proposal to newspapers (restaurant review, or any other type of column) Besides making sure I have the correct editor's name, is there any protocol to be observed, any pitfalls to be avoided? Please email me. Thanks!
Subj: Re:Entertainment Writer 95-01-18 13:30:50 EST
From: Fireman222
Posted on: System
Thanks for directions.
Will E-Mail soon
FM222
Subj: Today's Smile 95-01-18 15:48:30 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: System
To all:
Just thought I'd share a little writer humor with you all. I got a call today from an editor to go over a rewrite for a story I did. When I was assigned the piece, which covered a number of different medical topics under the same umbrella, I was told specifically not to dawdle too long on any one topic, as my story was supposed to give an overall view of the subject. So, I did as I was told, and handed in a general story on the topic. Funny thing is, today the editor told me the story was too "all over the place" and needs to be more specific. How's that for editorial direction? :-)
Leah
Subj: Re:Today's Smile 95-01-18 16:07:17 EST
From: ImagN8tion
Posted on: System
How's that for editorial direction? :-)
Typical, I'd say!
Subj: Re:Today's Smile 95-01-18 17:34:28 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: System
Oh Leah, if I had a nickel for everytime I heard that story....
Subj: Volunteer needed 95-01-18 17:35:36 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: System
I will be out of town on assignment this Monday (1/23) and won't be able to host the workshop. Anyone out there want to take a stab at it? If so, please e-mail me. Thanks.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Soldier of Fortune kill fee 95-01-18 19:55:10 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: System
<<Soldier of Fortune recently declined an article I wrote for them. Behold they sent a check equal to $25% of what the published article would have paid. Writers often complain, but let us toot the trumpet for publications that act professionaly and responsibly.>>
Well, yes, but that depends upon why they killed the piece. If it was no fault of yours then they are not--in my humble opinion--acting responsibly. I seem to be pretty much alone in not liking kill fees. I figure that if I did as asked and the work is acceptable, then they owe me the full fee. If I screwed up, then why should they owe me anything? Kill fees are a part of this business that I really dislike.
-steve
Subj: rejection letter 95-01-18 20:17:47 EST
From: Inkdragon
Posted on: System
I am back at school and still have not heard from the magazine to which I sent the article I referred to a few postings ago, so I will call them tomorrow and see if I can find some answers. I DID however get back a different article I had sent to another mag (sent out 3 or 4 weeks after the other one!) with a rejection notice thanking me for my recent PHOTO submission... <sigh> Would it be very unprofessional of me to write back to complain (or at least say something) about getting the wrong rejection slip? I realize it shouldn't make much difference -- a rejection is a rejection -- but somehow it seems worse that they could not even bother to send the right photocopied form. Oh well. At least their response was fast! :)
Michelle
Subj: Re:Entertainment Writer 95-01-18 22:25:27 EST
From: JoshJacks
Posted on: System
Fireman222 -- Sounds good and I admire your persistance (the appearance of your message in most folders) I'm an experienced music writer (mostly "alternative," though I really hate that word, and songwriter-oriented stuff). Please contact me with more info. -- JoshJacks
Subj: Re:rejection letter 95-01-19 01:13:45 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: System
I need to ask ... do you ever plan to send to these publications again? What are the chances the editors will pop up at another magazine in the future (happens a lot)? Are you willing to risk a label of "difficult"?
For all of the eybrows popping up ... I am NOT advocating becoming a doormat. However, when you're "new" to the business, you can't get away with as much as someone who has written extensively for the magazine could. IMHO, sending a letter "correcting" the editorial staff is a risky (and potentially dangerous) move so early in your freelance career.
Subj: thanks Leah 95-01-19 09:01:16 EST
From: Prokie
Posted on: System
Thanks for the idea of requesting a media kit!! I'll try it.
Subj: ethics 95-01-19 11:31:47 EST
From: Hkfn
Posted on: System
I've recently begun to make my living writing about things that a few people actually care about. So, for the first time, I am faced with interviewing interesting people, and the possiblity of freelancing. I recently interviewed two subjects for a story in the magazine I work for, and in the course of the research, discovered a story within that story--one that I could sell elsewhere. What are the ethics involved insofar as telling my sources i plan to use their candor in a publication other than the one I represented when we spoke, for a related but not identical article? Am I being clear? Any help would be appreciated.
Subj: Re:deadbeat mags folder 95-01-19 12:59:59 EST
From: Leigh70
Posted on: System
Do you have the address and phone number for the ASJA? I am trying to decide which writer's association I should join. I've talked to the NWU but like the idea of the list you mentioned.
Leigh
Subj: Re:deadbeat mags folder 95-01-19 13:05:28 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: System
Leigh:
I'm sending you an e-mail message and posting this information in the magazine writers folder, in case others are interested. You can reach ASJA's main office at 212-997-0947 or via e-mail at:
75227.1650@compuserve.com
Good luck.
Leah
Subj: Re:rejection letter 95-01-19 13:24:05 EST
From: MJinDC
Posted on: System
Michelle, please don't take the risk of doing something nasty...you may want to submit to that magazine again. If I ever got a note like that from someone who submitted an article, all it would do is help to convince me, if I saw her work again, that I might not want to work with that person. If she is so nitpicky about a rejection slip, how difficult is she going to be when I ask for a revise, etc. You get the idea.
On the other side of the spectrum, when I do submit my own work to other publications, I work with my own pre-set deadline for hearing from them. And whatever deadline you have set---4 weeks, 2 months, whatever---it is certainly reasonable, and profesional, to call the editor after that time has passed. Then you can resubmit it elsewhere.
You sound very determined despite your newness to the game...good luck, I'm sure you'll do well.
Subj: Re:Soldier of Fortune kill fee 95-01-19 17:20:34 EST
From: FockeWulf
Posted on: System
Hi Steve, I think kill fee does not actually mean a writer screwed up. The decision for a mag to accept a piece and then not use it can be attributed to a number of reasons, not that the writer screwed up. Editors may have changed, an advertiser may have come on board and their is a conflict with the piece, etc.
But I think on the whole most mags will not even offer kill fees but accept material on spec only (now that really sucks). Then send the piece back. And (and some people may argue the point) but I truly believe in some cases they reject the piece but send the idea over to one of their favorite writers. I'm not saying it happen to me but I've heard plenty and seen how some mags work/ Later/Mike
Subj: Re:Soldier of Fortune kill fee 95-01-19 18:34:35 EST
From: MoJoe1
Posted on: System
,
<Well, yes, but that depends upon why they killed the piece. If it was no fault of yours then they are not--in my humble opinion--acting responsibly.>
Steve, I agree. Take a magazine editor that killed an assigned story of mine because he didn't like it and then I sold it, without a word changed, to another magazine of equal status. So which one was right about the quality of an article? My philosophy on this is a magazine can only give me a kill fee once. I tell them if they decide to kill a piece without paying me the full fee, I will decline to work for them again. Fortunately, in 10 years of freelancing, I've only had two pieces killed.
Subj: Re:FREE Research Assistance 95-01-19 20:35:12 EST
From: MarcusSchn
Posted on: System
To tell you the truth, I'm not familiar with profnet. Can you provide an explanation of that system?
Thanks
Subj: Re:ethics 95-01-19 20:40:30 EST
From: Copy89108
Posted on: System
If you want to play it safe, just call the people you interviewed and ask them if they mind. Tell them you sometimes write for other publicatons and you noticed another angel that would be good somewhere else. They probably won't mind. You might have more questions for them anyway.
As for the origional publication: if the story isn't related and they know you write for other publications, then don't worry about it. If the new story is related to the origional, offer it to the first publication. If they decline, sell it somewhere else.
Subj: Re:Thanks for the freelance advi 95-01-19 23:14:45 EST
From: AbbaA
Posted on: System
I'm a new freelancer (full-time, ulp), and while I'm going to be trying to search for the above referenced advice (I'm new to online stuff, too), I just want a reality check--we can make a living at this, right? I written for trade pubs, and have a few $.20/word stories coming in, but I welcome any advice regarding breaking into national consumer magazines that pay reasonably, particulary for someone like me, with a quirky background in writing about energy efficiency and alternative energy, as well as environmental issues, but all for small, poor pubs.
Subj: The editor defends herself 95-01-20 00:10:30 EST
From: Sharon LM
Posted on: System
I've been reading the postings in this folder for some time now and am shocked at the cruddy reputation of some of the editors mentioned.
I work at a magazine publishing co. with five other editors and although we all have our bouts of flakiness, I can assure you we all go to great lenghs to please our writers and subscribers.
I think some editors are too big for their own good, but my mag sells over 100,000 and I still personally answer all letters and phone calls as soon as possible. I also hand mail writer's copies when the shipment comes in from the printer because I do not trust our distributor to get the comp list straight.
I am more than willing to answer any questions you all may have about editorial weirdness, to perhaps smooth out some of the wrongful actions made by those mentioned.
We editors have a tough job, and yes! we all wish we were writing that romance novel we started in college!
Sharon Mikkelson, editor Wood Strokes and FRESH magazines
Subj: Re:ethics 95-01-20 00:52:40 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: System
I suggest asking them instead of telling them.
Subj: Re:The editor defends herself 95-01-20 15:10:22 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: System
Sharon~
Don't know about the rest of the gang, but for the most part, my experieces with editors have been positive ones. There have been a few places that have requested articles on spec & then I waited months for replies (like, 4-5 months w/no response to follow-ups) - - yet, upon investigation, I discovered that in 2 cases it was an error by the assistant [who lost the material], and in 2 other cases, the manuscripts weren't received.
This is a tough business for EVERYONE, writers and editors. It's not for the faint hearted or ultra-sensitive. It is above all, a business ~ meaning we're all required to act professionally.
Thank you for interjecting a more realistic, solid view from the editor's perspective.
Subj: Re:The editor defends herself 95-01-20 20:10:08 EST
From: GRUFFNESS
Posted on: System
I love editors. When you are working with an editor it usually means you are being published and paid for your hard-won work. Editors, like writers, are people usually also working for someone above them. So, you must work together. You can't be above him and he or she can't be above you. You work as a team and you must set that professional tone at the outset. Never pander or overplease an editor. Editors need writers and writers need editors. Editors are the bridge to a writers being published. Writers experience many kinds of editors and must be resilient, or at least pragmatic enough to realize there are distinct differences in editors personalities and requirements. The sooner a writer equalizes the differences the more frequently those submissions will translate into published products.
Subj: Re:rejection letter 95-01-21 00:23:18 EST
From: SALECO
Posted on: System
My favorite: I got a rejection letter in my SASE when all I asked for was writer's guidelines. Were they trying to tell me something? :-)
Subj: Re:rejection letter 95-01-21 10:33:53 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: System
<< I got a rejection letter in my SASE when all I asked for was writer's guidelines. Were they trying to tell me something?>>
That's great. They were trying to tell you they weren't payng attention.
I have twice had requests for writers guidelines turned down on the grounds that the information was confidential.
-steve
Subj: Re:rejection letter 95-01-21 11:38:39 EST
From: TAMiller1
Posted on: System
I had the same thing happen to me a while back!
I wrote them back (nicely) and said I knew it was just a mistake, and could I still get the guidelines-Three days later they showed up.
And this mag has a circulation of 1million!
Subj: Re: Editors 95-01-21 13:10:57 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: System
I've had some really bad days and some really good ones. I've had some really bad cars and some really good ones. And I had one so-so husband and now I've got one really good one.
With editors, as with all else in life, every one is different. The best thing to do is salute the good ones, share info on the bad ones -- and go after them if they damage you financially or professionally -- and keep working.
Subj: re: rejection letter 95-01-21 15:16:49 EST
From: Quebecoise
Posted on: System
I got a rejection letter from a magazine last week, two week AFTER the editor had called up to tell me she was interested in one of the ideas I'd proposed. When I called her to tell her about the rejection letter, she told me "Oh, that happens from time to time. We just send out so many."
Next time I get a rejection, I'm going to call to make sure it really was for me!!!!!
Subj: AOL question 95-01-21 15:55:35 EST
From: TAMiller1
Posted on: System
Ok AOL gurus, here is a question for you.
I have noticed many people on this board and others can post the same identical, long message in several folders. Even the misspellings are the same. I have had a few cases where this would be benificial to me, I do alot of research for my writing by question people on AOL.
Anyway, how does one compose a message for a couple of folders possible off line then import it into the boards.
Additionally, how can I import a document to Email or a board from Windows? Can it be done?
I am using AOL alot for my writing as many people in the industry I cover are on AOL, so bear with me on this question-I tried 3 times to get an
2/16/95 3:15:58 PM Opening ÒSystem Log 2/16/95.10Ó for recording.
answer from AOL Techs Live-they said it can't be done! Yet I see it done every day on this board.
So those who know the trick, let me know by posting here or email.Thanks!
Terry Miller
TAMiller1
Car Audio & Electronics magazine
Subj: Re:AOL question 95-01-21 17:40:12 EST
From: JuneLV
Posted on: System
Just use a cut and paste - highlight the text you want to repeat, hit CTRL-C, and then CTRL-V when you're in the post screen. You can compose off-line under File, New. Again, copy the text into a new post or email window as appropriate.
Subj: Re:AOL question 95-01-21 19:34:03 EST
From: MRMcKinney
Posted on: System
+
Terry, I'm second in line here to offer an answer. However, if you're using Windows and not a Mac (my sympathy, if so <g>) you might try using the "Notebook" DA to write your messages offline, and then copy/paste that text into an "Add a Message" box while online. (You'll need to have both apps open simultaneously.)
So long as the DA/application/WP program you use can copy/paste in ASCII, you can easily store up a TON of "boilerplate" messages (or, in my case, resumes and writing samples) to be copy/pasted into online messages. It's a big time and money saver. AOL, too, offers advice and/or courses on how to save money by doing things "offline"...check Customer Support for more info.
For AOL Mail, you can actually create offline mail messages that don't need copy/paste techniques. IMHO, AOL needs to add this capability to its forum messaging. However, I imagine they will, as one of their biggest competitors (hint: they're extremely overpriced and have a lousy base of consumer magazines) already has it.
Hope this helps. If you have more questions, feel free to email me....I was once a tech writer for the above-mentioned "high-priced" service. Trust me, AOL is the best value, and using offline techniques makes it even better.
Michael
Subj: Re:rejection letter 95-01-21 20:41:14 EST
From: Inkdragon
Posted on: System
Point taken about seeming "difficult".. I certainly don't want to make this process even harder! :)
I still can't seem to find out anything about the article I have been posting about.. the one I sent out at the end of October.. I called and left another message on the editor's voice mail, asking politely but firmly that she get back to me since if she's not interested in my article I'd like to send it elsewhere. I've decided that if I don't hear from her in the next few days I will call ONE more time (to see if I can actually speak to her, not her voice mail) and then withdraw my article.. do I do that by just sending a letter? And is this the right thing to do? Or should I wait until I can speak to the editor directly before I write to withdraw, in case there is just a mix-up or something?
Subj: actual good news! 95-01-21 20:51:30 EST
From: Inkdragon
Posted on: System
One thing IS going right for me.. my first-ever freelance article appears in the February issue of Freshwater and Marine Aquarium! I finally called to check up (they had accepted it back in early October) and the editor told me it was in Feb and that she really liked it.. :) This makes up for the other stuff going on with my other articles, I think.
Just thought I'd share something other than my problems, for once! :D
Subj: Re:actual good news! 95-01-21 21:28:42 EST
From: TAMiller1
Posted on: System
Congratulations and what a coincidence! My first PAID published piece was in Freshwater and Marine Aquarium back in August of 1988!
Small world isn't it? Or are we on to something?....FW&M may be the undiscovered gem for freelancers to break into!
FYI, I am now a fulltime freelancer with my byline appearing monthly in about five magazines in the electronics industry and a few others occasionally.
Terry A. Miller
Car Audio & Electronics magazine
Subj: Re:AOL question 95-01-21 21:34:50 EST
From: TAMiller1
Posted on: System
Thanks for the quick reply. With your help I figured it out. I write in WordPerfect 5.1 so I just used my ASCII conversion key, then load the file into the Open File screen, then cut and paste. It works! I tried it!
And the AOL techs said it couldn't be done lol. With you folks' instructions, I figured it out in about 5 minutes.
Thanks everyone! And hopefully these postings will others too....that's what this Writer's Club is all about.
Terry Miller
Subj: Re: new here 95-01-21 22:27:13 EST
From: SNewmark
Posted on: System
I've just spent much time (and $) reading these messages, as I am a former fulltime magazine staffer, now working on a daily paper in So. Fla. But I'd like to freelance again (sold my first piece while still in college; haven't had much time since to continue). Would love to network with you all. Please forward info about when you have online discussions. Look forward to more!
Subj: Grins! 95-01-22 00:29:00 EST
From: Sharon LM
Posted on: System
Thanks for the positive editor postings. I feel a little better hearing that we're not necessarily dreaded by all writers. (Most editors are writers too).
Anyway, about submitting articles and never hearing anything but voicemail...just send another copy of your manuscript elsewhere if they refuse to talk to you. Think about it this way, if the editor really wanted your piece, he or she would have called you right back! Don't wait for permisson to move on to another publication.
Sharon, editor Wood Strokes and FRESH magazines
Subj: Re:AOL question 95-01-22 10:44:50 EST
From: OrdnryStar
Posted on: System
terry--if it can't be done all at once, it CAN be done by simply copying the message and posting it in each individual folder. then you get the same misspellings.
Subj: Jan. 23 Magazine Workshop 95-01-22 19:55:21 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: System
Hey!
As I am in in Omaha (yawn) on assignment, LeahIngram is hosting this week's workshop. The topic: How to do research on line. We covered this last year but since then many of us have become more savvy in cyberspace so a repeat performance should be quite helpful.
Anyone who isn't nice to Leah will have to sit in the corner!
Bragger's Corner:
Jimmor: His piece about the Illinois town rebuilding after being wiped out in the Miss. floods of '93 appears in SOUTHWEST airlines magazine this month. His article on the Chesapeake Bay appears there next month. Jim has also recently done work for THE NEW YORK TIMES, PLAYBOY and AMERICAN WAY.
RodMoore has a sotry in the January/February issue of INDEPENDENT BUSINESS.
Ghost Rite:-MILWAUKEE MAGAZINE, article Feb. issue
-CORPORATE REPORT, articles in January, Feb. issue
-SANITARY MAGAZINE, articles in Jan, Feb. March issue
-contributing writer to HOW TO BOOK, published by the Business Journal.
Citywoman: My article, "Living and Loving With AIDS" appears in the February issue of Glamour.
See you in two weeks!
Jennifer
Subj: Re:AOL question 95-01-22 19:58:14 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: System
Terry, all you have to do is write your post, click edit, click copy and then wherever you want to post it, click paste. Easy as pie.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:rejection letter 95-01-23 00:14:32 EST
From: MJinDC
Posted on: System
Inkdragon,
Again, I'm in a long list of respondees, but I'd suggest you send a letter (for formal documentation) to the editor, informing the publication that you intend to send your piece elsewhere. That way you're covered (keep a hard copy) in case they decide they really love it three months from now (not completely unheard of).
Congrats on your recent success! : )
And along the lines of what Sharon was saying, thanks to everyone who can manage a few kind words about us editors...we're not All bad, and most of us play two roles: editor to You and freelancer/submitter to Them. We're all in it together.
Melissa
Subj: Magazine writers conference 95-01-24 01:21:19 EST
From: JYCleaver
Posted on: System
Meet editors of 8 top national magazines in Chicago April 27 - 30! The Midwest Magazine Writers/Chicago is hosting an followup conference to the very successful 1994 Writers and Editors One-on-One. You'll get to hear editors give one-hour presentations about their magazines' markets and editorial needs; join in panel discussions; and sign up for at least four personal one-on-one interviews with editors to pitch ideas and pick their brains. Plus, of course, hang around with some of the top magazine writers in the midwest. These magazines are sending executive level editors: Smithsonian, Travel & Leisure; Harrowsmith Country Life; Marie Claire; Readers Digest; Outside; Profiles; Seventeen. Conference cost for registration received before March 24 is $365; after, $415. For a brochure, call Sue Ziol at (708) 676-3784 or e-mail JYCleaver via AOL. See you there!
Subj: Electronic Newsstand 95-01-24 14:32:33 EST
From: JudyA777
Posted on: America Online
As I promised during last night's magazine writers' workshop, here's the instructions for getting to the Electronic Newsstand -- a database I've found helpful in article research:
1. Go to Internet
2. Select Gopher and Wais Databases
3. Select Other Gophers
4. Select AMI -- A Friendly Public Interface
5. Select News & Weather
6. Select Electronic Newsstand
That's it...
Judy
Subj: Re:Magazine writers conference 95-01-24 17:55:23 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
To all those considering attending the Chicago conference:
I went last year, and it was incredible -- completely worth the money. From it, I secured assignments from Home Office Computing, Avenues (AAA travel magazine of Southern California) and Correspondent (a controlled circulation magazine in Wisconsin.) In all, the $350 fee netted me about $3,000 worth of work. Plus, getting to meet editors face to face is a terrific plus to the solitary life of freelancing.
If anyone has additional questions, don't hesitate to e-mail me.
Leah
Subj: Internet Resources 95-01-24 18:02:26 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
For those who missed last night's chat or were there but didn't have a pen and paper handy, here are three resources we discussed last night that can help you find research and interview sources for articles:
PROFNET: e-mail your request to <profnet@sunysb.edu>
Profnet will send your message to public information officers at more than 400 universities and colleges worldwide
MEDIANET: e-mail your request to <71344.2761@compuserve.com>
Currently, a few hundred pr agencies and corporations subscribe to this daily listing of media opportunities
(Both ProfNet and Medianet are free for writers.)
For the latest scoop on journalism resources on the Internet, you might want to consider subscribing to THE INTERNET NEWSROOM, a fortnightly newsletter. E-mail <timmaloy> for more information.
I had a great time subbing for Jennifer in last night's chat. Thanks for making it fun!
Leah
Subj: Re:Other Online Resources 95-01-25 14:16:49 EST
From: Woodfriend
Posted on: America Online
Sorry I missed the chat about online resources, thanks to Leah for summarizing the info.
I also wanted to offer help to any writer attempting to do research using the LEXIS-NEXIS services. I worked at their headquarters for 8 years and know the services inside-out. LEXIS-NEXIS is one of the most expensive services available, but has an unsurpassed breadth of information. So if anyone has a need and wants some hand-holding, shoot me an email.
Leslie
Subj: Re:Internet Resources 95-01-25 15:56:24 EST
From: MoJoe1
Posted on: America Online
There is a decent listing of Internet resources in the Jan/Feb issue of American Journalism Review, page 31.
Subj: Re: help with newspaper propos 95-01-26 20:01:15 EST
From: Sabrett
Posted on: America Online
I'm an editor at a small daily, so receive inquiries from time to time from people who would like to have us publish columns. Yes, do know the correct editor's name, and also know what kind of deadline he/she works on -- you won't get much of a reception if you show up while the paper's being put to bed. I usually ask to see three sample columns, so I can get a clear idea of what the writer has in mind. If you're asking for pay, don't expect much, at least from community-type newspapers. I'd also caution you about criticizing restaurants in a small community. Small dailies don't like to annoy their advertisers, so a lot of editors won't even consider (real, honest) reviews. Perhaps you're lucky enough to be in a large enough community with scads of restaurants and a superhealthy ad base. You also need to be clear about who pays for any meals you might consume in the interest of your review; ethics about things like that are a rather hot topic at some newspapers.
Mostly, remember newspaper budgets are tight these days, at least here in the Northeast, and I suspect elsewhere. The price of newsprint just went out of sight and most of us in this business are finding ways to cut, not add. So you've got to convince the editor(s) that what you've got will give them a better product that will attract readers and advertising. And, hey, good luck. Let me know how you do, e-mail.
Subj: Stories on line 95-01-27 17:16:34 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Most of you have become aware these days that magazines are putting stories on line, sometimes without the writer's permission. I'm sure you've seen the magazines on AOL's "Newsstand" and checked to make sure there's been no contract violations with magazines there. But there's another place you should be checking. It's the Internet "Electronic Newsstand," which can be accessed the following way.
Keyword (ctrl k) Gopher
Click on journals and publications
Click on Electronic Newsstand
There are more than 100 magazines and journals here, most of them obscure academic publications. However, such mainstream magazines as Inc., Mother Jones, The New Yorker, Outside and Ski are there, too.
So, go check it out.
Leah
Subj: on the other side 95-01-28 00:19:23 EST
From: Jordy3235
Posted on: America Online
Hi folks:
I haven't posted here in ages. In September I became the full-time editor of a community newspaper in the Bronx. It's a wonderful job and I'm happy. However, I miss free-lancing (not the business end of it however) and hope as I get better and faster at my job (I edit, write, layout, pasteup, etc.) I can carve out some time for free-lance projects.
It has also been an interesting and gratifying experience to be working with other less-experienced writers -- many of them community people. It's a different role than the insecure-waiting-by-the-phone-and-mailbox free-lance life. I hope when I get the chance to free-lance again I will be more confident and assertive in my dealings with editors.
I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of anyone who has made a similar jump either to or from the editor's chair. Look forward to rejoining this ongoing conversation. Hope you're all well.
Best,
Jordan (jordy3235)
Subj: Re:Stories on line 95-01-28 18:00:03 EST
From: BRBeck
Posted on: America Online
I missed the Mon. night chat but have followed instructions re accessing Electronic Newstand and have also tried Medianet. I'm interested in locating the Table of Contents for some leading magazines, e.g., Redbook, Good Housekeeping, etc. Didn't find these in Electronic Newstand and Medianet replied they didn't do that kind of research. How can I get that kind of info?
Subj: My two cents 95-01-30 13:54:09 EST
From: KellyWord
Posted on: America Online
About 8 months I got serious about freelancing; that means even though I've been a writer for a long time, I wasn't serious about tracking down serious assignments for serious money.
Last month I got three assignments from three big magazines, and all of them came after much effort and schmoozing. Here's my method: get the Writer's Guidelines, then submit my first set of queries. Because I knew my best chances with national mags was to break in through departments, I submitted 3-4 short ideas at a time. Then, after two weeks, I called the editor and asked for a response. Most of the time, it was no, it was almost O.K., try again. But, at least now, the editor knew my name. So I would try again, and now this month I have three national assignments, all of which pay $1.50 per word. True, these assignments are just short 750-word pieces, but the per hour rate on these kind of assignments is great!
I will still write for newspapers, mostly to keep money rolling in during the lean months, and also to try out new topics. But since newspapers average .18/word, magazines are the way to go. Also, I believe that, at least in the beginning, diversification is recommended. I had been querying the same three mags over and over, thinking since that since parenting was my favorite topic that was where I should be. Nonense. It wasn't until I began querying every kind of magazine that paid decently that I realized that it doesn't matter what you like to read, you write what pays.
Thanks to everyone in this folder for your patient help; especially Steve Moril and Citywoman -- their advice is always timely and useful. I really feel I am on my way to more sustained success. Here's wishing the rest of the magazine folder's good luck finds its way to you.
(formerly KellyPS)
Subj: Re:My two cents 95-01-30 16:10:09 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: America Online
Congratulations, Kelly! Stories like yours make it easier for some of us still struggling freelancers to hang in there. I'm printing your post & tacking it on my BB in my office. As incentive. Thanks!
Leese
Subj: Re:KellyWord's success 95-01-30 17:46:42 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
Any advice you got here might have pointed out the road to take, but you had to walk down it yourself. Congratulations. And thanks for sharing an inspirational story. I think I'll send a query letter tomorrow. :-)
-steve
Subj: Re:KellyWord's success 95-01-30 19:35:21 EST
From: GRUFFNESS
Posted on: America Online
It's like lotto...you've got to be in it ( many,many queries) to win it. (except your chances are better is you are persistant.) So get to work you writers and submit, submit,submit.Singers sing. Writers write.
Subj: Re:My two cents 95-01-31 00:49:05 EST
From: AbbaA
Posted on: America Online
Inspiring words, Kelly, I'm just starting to try to get serious about querying big magazines. What stories, what magazines are you writing for, and how did you come up with the ideas...I'd love to hear your stories (I'm currently writing 20-25 cent stuff for trade pubs, but that's not what I want to do long term!)...email if you like! And congratulations!
Subj: Re:Kelly 95-01-31 13:02:27 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Congrats! It's amazing the difference a few months of hard plugging can do. You make me proud.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:My two cents 95-01-31 16:32:25 EST
From: MRMcKinney
Posted on: America Online
+
Kelly,
Congrats! My wife Beth (ejmckinney) and I are both trying to break into the nonfiction markets...it's great to hear of someone who's not only made it, but is willing to share how they did it!
Beth's recovering at home right now from an appendectomy. I'm running a hard copy of your posting to give to her, as inspiration for better times ahead. Many thanks from both of us.
Michael
Subj: Re:Stories on line 95-01-31 17:04:26 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
You'll probably find Redbook and Good Housekeeping on CompuServe's magazine database. Or, if you access to it, Lexis/Nexis.
Subj: Should I Ask for More $$$? 95-01-31 18:49:29 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
This afternoon I spoke with an editor about a piece I'd written for her in December. Based on her assignment letter, I complete the assignment to a tee. Now it seems the editor has had a change of heart and wants to re-do my 1,000-word article into a piece consisting mostly of a chart, and she wants to add new information (which requires more work). Granted, this new information isn't earth shattering and could be completed via a few additional interviews. But, the entire time we were on the phone I had this nagging feeling that I should have asked her for more money, because, in essence, she was changing the terms of the assignment. And my contract does not saying anything to the effect that I must complete one rewrite for the same money.
Perhaps I've blown my chance to ask for the extra $$$, although she is faxing me an outline of the newer version of the piece tomorrow, so maybe I could ask then. That is, if you all think I have the grounds for doing so. Please let me know. I really don't know what to do.
Leah
Subj: Re:Should I Ask for More $$$? 95-01-31 20:47:06 EST
From: Copy89108
Posted on: America Online
Leah,
Yes, you should for more money. You have completed the assignment according to their specifications. In essense, you are not doing a re-write. You are working on a new assignment. Besides, the worst thing that can happen is they will say no.
Copy
Subj: MRMcKinney 95-02-01 05:35:17 EST
From: OrygOnLine
Posted on: America Online
Mike? Are the Michael McKinney of A Thousand Bridges? If so, I know you, and I owe you. Write to me.
SH
Subj: Leah, perfect timing 95-02-01 08:24:30 EST
From: D LADY BUG
Posted on: America Online
You know, I think AFTER you recieve that fax is possibly the best time to re-negotiate pay. You don't have to think on your feet, and risk accepting something on the fly that is not fair compensation.
After receiving that fax, you can cal her and say "Now that I have read your fax, I see this is a dramatic change...variation of the agreed piece..etc."
Well, you get the idea, I don't think you have missed your chance until you have actually agreed to perform the changes gratis.
Good luck!
Subj: Re:MRMcKinney 95-02-01 11:11:19 EST
From: MRMcKinney
Posted on: America Online
+
OrygOnLine:
Nope. I'm not the McKinney of A Thousand Bridges. (Although many would say I've burned at least that many. <g>)
Michael
Subj: Re:Leah, perfect timing 95-02-01 12:24:38 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Lady Bug wrote: <<You know, I think AFTER you recieve that fax is possibly the best time to re-negotiate pay. You don't have to think on your feet, and risk accepting something on the fly that is not fair compensation.
After receiving that fax, you can cal her and say "Now that I have read your fax, I see this is a dramatic change...variation of the agreed piece..etc." >>
In fact, the fax just came in, and 50% of it IS like a new assignment. I think I will call her, let her know that I feel like I'm writing a completely new story and see what happens from there. Thanks.
Leah
Subj: Re:Should I Ask for More $$$? 95-02-01 13:18:34 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Leah, it all depends. Have you worked with this editor before? If not, you may want to hold off on asking for more, although you don't want to set a precedent for being a doormat. So really it depends on your relationship with her. If it's friendly, go for it.
I never ask for more money when I'm asked
2/16/95 3:21:14 PM Opening ÒSystem Log 2/16/95.11Ó for recording.
to do a rewrite or a revise. But when they change the assignment, I almost always do. Sometimes they offer without my asking, sometimes not. I know, I haven't really answered your question. But I think the thing is to follow your gut.
Jennifer
Subj: I need your advice 95-02-01 13:48:11 EST
From: Bellesprit
Posted on: America Online
I would love to get your thoughts on this:
In addition to being a freelance writer, I have taught stress management for many years and have worked with several well-known experts in that field. Along with other writing projects I'm working on, I'd like to publish some articles about stress management.
*But* many others have already covered this territory. Of course, I do have my own sources, insights and style.
The questions for you, my panel of experts:
Has this topic been done to death? Should I forget this one and focus on trying to sell other article ideas instead? Or do you think there is room for more about dealing with stress? Are there any aspects of stress management you would like to see covered, angles that are fresh and interesting (that you aren't planning to write about yourself)?
Many thanks, folks.
Subj: Re:I need your advice 95-02-01 14:49:23 EST
From: Riosur
Posted on: America Online
belle-I don't think the subject has been done to death, considering how many people I run into who haven't learned productive ways to manage stress yet! as with any other self-help topic, an approach that does not reach one person will reach another.
Subj: More $$$$ Update 95-02-01 15:47:34 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Hi, all.
I just finished speaking with the editor about getting more money, and she disagreed. She explained that a lot of what she wanted me to do with the rewrite was spelled out in the original assignment memo and that I hadn't covered it. Yes, this is true, but after I'd received the original assignment memo, I'd called her and said that if I include *everything* the piece would be too busy. She agreed, but ironically her main criticism of my first draft was that it was too busy. (Imagine if I'd included all the other stuff, too?)
She took my request really well and was very friendly, and I was non-confrontational. And, to answer Citywoman's question, no, this isn't my first time working with her, which is why I felt I had grounds to make the request.
Bottom line is I feel good that I stood up for what I thought was right. I handled my request professionally and, even though I didn't get the outcome I'd hoped for, things did turn out all right.
Leah
Subj: Re:Should I Ask for More $$$? 95-02-01 15:54:01 EST
From: MoJoe1
Posted on: America Online
You are certainly entitled to ask for more money. If you decide to go this route, I'd be diplomatic in laying out why you deserve more (as I'm sure you would be). If the work is extra work is negligible and you have a strong sense this editor will call you back with more assignments, you might want to just to it and solidify your relationship. Generally, I think asking for one rewrite is not out of the question (though asking additional info might be).
Subj: Re:I need your advice 95-02-01 16:03:36 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: America Online
If your library has online capabilities (many do now), or if they keep files on computer rather than microfiche, do a scan in the magazine files (these will go back about 4-5 yrs) on the topic. Be sure to specify the topic as closely as you can to what you're writing.
This does 2 things:
a)gives you an idea about how many articles have covered the same/similar topic recently
b)tells you EXACTLY which mags ran the articles & when
**sometimes you can get a printout or fax copy of the article to peruse**
If nothing else, this will help you determine where to query & where NOT to query.
Subj: Re:My two cents 95-02-01 20:15:08 EST
From: Strywever
Posted on: America Online
Add my congrats to everyone else's, Kelly. May I ask what I hope is not a stupid question? You said you broke into the nationals by submitting short pieces for their departments. I translated this to mean that those one-page departments with several little topics actually are the work of more than one person? So I could submit an idea for 1-4 paragraphs or so about whatever would fit in that department?
I've just submitted my very first query--to a local magazine-style monthly newspaper, taking everyone's recommendation to start locally and build up. Thanks for your inspiration!
Subj: Re:More $$$$ Update 95-02-01 20:15:51 EST
From: Copy89108
Posted on: America Online
Sorry to hear it didn't turn out. But, you really did have nothing to lose. Most good editors do understand that among other things, writers have to be business people. As long as you're polite, honest, and professional (like you seem to be), editors don't mind questions from writers. Although you didn't get the best outcome, I do hope other writers will learn from your posts.
Subj: Re:I need your advice 95-02-02 09:15:34 EST
From: IRAD9
Posted on: America Online
Bellesprit,
It seems that until Stress has been eradicated, you have a viable topic that's of interest.
If your slant is fresh, target your audience and go for it.
If it's not fresh, rethink it, and retarget the market.
Ira Dick<-recent grad of Steve Morill's class
Subj: Re:My two cents 95-02-02 16:26:21 EST
From: KellyWord
Posted on: America Online
>>I translated this to mean that those one-page departments with several little topics actually are the work of more than one person? So I could submit an idea for 1-4 paragraphs or so about whatever would fit in that department?<<
Yes, that's about right. My speciliaty is health, so I always submit the latest in my readings of medical journals in what we call "gang queries." That is, 4 or 5 one paragraph queries on one page I some circumstances, editors have just taken my one paragraphs and run those. No further writing needed!
So yes, definitely a bunch of short ideas to the local mag and see what happens. Good luck!
Subj: ASJA Contracts Watch 2/1/95 - I 95-02-02 17:48:37 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
ASJA CONTRACTS WATCH Issued February 1, 1995
[The American Society of Journalists and Authors encourages reproduction and distribution of this document for the benefit of freelance writers. Reprint or post as many items as you wish, but please credit ASJA for the information and don't change the content. Contracts Committee, ASJA, tel 212 997 0947, fax 212 768 7414, e-mail 75227.1650@compuserve.com.]
News of Allure, Atlantic Monthly, Chicago Tribune, Conde Nast,
Cosmopolitan, Details, Electronic Newsstand, Good Housekeeping, Gourmet,
Hearst, House Beautiful, Lang Communications, New Choices, Scholastic,
Smithsonian, Travel & Leisure, Travel Holiday, TV Guide, USAir, UnCover,
Working Mother...
Recent press coverage: The New York Law Journal leads a long article on "Protection of Electronic Publication Rights" (Jan. 17): "A struggle between authors and magazine publishers over the ownership of electronic publishing rights has come to a head." Folio reports (Feb. 1): "The long-standing friction between many magazines and freelance writers has flared up at LANG COMMUNICATIONS' WORKING MOTHER, where a contract developed last year is drawing criticism from the American Society of Journalists and Authors...The magazine's attorney, Noah Block, won't comment on the contract, but he says Lang is negotiating with ASJA and a new version could soon emerge."
CHICAGO TRIBUNE freelancers in Travel and other sections are unhappy with a new contract that grabs the right to syndicate and reproduce articles in all electronic forms for no extra pay. At least one freelance columnist has quit and other regulars are squawking.
Photographers are chipping away at generally intransigent CONDE NAST. The magazine giant's new "Photographer or Illustrator Agreement" met with such resistance last year from contributors to GOURMET and other CN magazines that a revised form--only marginally improved--was issued. Some photographers have pressed for and received further changes. Meanwhile, the American Society of Media Photographers reports that despite Conde Nast's hardline stance on contracts, some who flatly refuse to sign are still
shooting for CN magazines. Says ASMP executive director Dick Weisgrau: "We have received calls from about a dozen members who say that they refused to sign CN's contract and that they continue to be assigned work under their standing agreements, which are oral." ASMP calls the CN contract "outrageously detrimental," a phrase that works equally for CN's writer's contract.
If contracts were drawn under football rules, Conde Nast would be penalized 15 yards for piling on. As if the CN contract's terms weren't lopsided enough, its final clause contains one last benefit for the publisher: "Any action based on or alleging a breach of this agreement must be brought in the state or federal courts in New York, New York" -- meaning that a writer can sue only in the Apple. You live elsewhere? Tough luck. One more reason why writers who can should take their work elsewhere until CN stops its bullying.
Writers and agents have been lobbing darts at HEARST for its imposing, onerous "Contract From Hell." GOOD HOUSEKEEPING has responded, but not the way writers want. GH has begun to issue a page-and-a-half letter, an almost friendly-looking document that's minus most of the legalese. The letter turns out to be a Hearst contract in sheep's clothing: It offers tiny (5 percent) payments for foreign use by three "associated" magazines and nothing at all for advertising use or for broad electronic rights (including media "hereafter invented"). Another Hearst title, COSMOPOLITAN, demands not only free e-rights but the option to make multiple foreign sales for just a small, one-time fee; with 27 associated foreign magazines to sell to, Cosmo can take in thousands of dollars for an investment of a few hundred. At the same time, HOUSE BEAUTIFUL continues to send old-style assignment letters that don't even mention rights.
Subj: ASJA Contracts Watch 2/1/95 - II 95-02-02 17:50:11 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
TV GUIDE says it's still fine-tuning, trying to find a reasonable way to translate into a contract its editor's statement, last October, that writers are "obviously entitled to residuals." Editor Anthea Disney had also announced that the contract would cover only TV Guide Online, the planned online version of the magazine, rather than broad electronic use.
Also fiddling: TRAVEL & LEISURE, which is preparing to go online and trying to work out a compensation plan for freelance contributors.
Conde Nast's lawyer, Jerry Birenz, gave a January 19 seminar on "New Law for New Media," sponsored by the American Society of Magazine Editors. Among the wisdom offered to editors: An all-rights or work-made-for-hire agreement is "obviously one of the hardest positions to take, and the one that will meet with the most demands for more money from the contributor community."... "Seeking broader [new-media] rights that won't require you to get permission every time is going to be your toughest battle with
photographers, writers and their agents." ... Publishers should try to obtain a future-technology clause, to cover even media not yet known, although such clauses are "extremely offensive to contributors."
A few admissions from the CN lawyer: Although some publishers try to argue that database use of articles is just another form of the magazine, "it's not the entire publication. First of all, it's not pictures at all. It's not even all the text." ... The one-year statute of limitations on liability starts with the day of publication, but putting magazine material into an online data- base will start the clock running again from the day it goes
online. (Another argument for considering online publication a separate use, deserving of separate compensation. Conde Nast, however, still tells contributors that when it comes to new-media uses of articles, it won't pay a farthing.) ... Most online services are worldwide. (A fact that makes real problems for publishers who've illicitly licensed online use and want to call it a simple extension of First North American rights. The minute
they sign a world-rights deal with a database producer, they're in breach of territorial restrictions.)
Speaking of infringement: UNCOVER, the document delivery service whose huge periodical index is Internet accessible, mails copies of articles for $8.50 plus a "copyright fee." The problem is, the "copyright fee"--usually a few dollars--goes to the publisher, who often hasn't the right either to license such use or to collect royalties. According to a spokesman for the service, when freelancers complain about finding their work available for purchase, UnCover checks the sales records, pays the writer the amount already paid to the publishers, and pulls all of that writer's work from the system. (No, they don't ask the publisher to give back the ill-gotten gains: too much trouble.) To search for your own writings free: Telnet to database.carl.org. To make infringement complaints and demands for compensation: UnCover, 3801 East Florida Ave. (#200), Denver CO 80210, tel 800 787 7979.
Subj: ASJA Contracts Watch 2/1/95- III 95-02-02 17:50:56 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
The standard magazine promotion and advertising clause, which allows use of "your name, likeness and biography...," seems harmless enough. But watch out for clauses that claim the right to ad/promo use of "the Work" too. Your entire article could become a direct-mail piece; instead of paying an ad copywriter thousands, the publisher could use your copy for nothing. Or a publisher might argue that such a clause allows free use of your work on the ELECTRONIC NEWSSTAND, the online browsing area that qualifies as promotional because publishers don't earn money from it directly; on the contrary, to
join, publishers pay cash upfront plus a cut of the take from subscriptions and sales of products. If you think writers should be paid for promotional work, kill the clause or reduce it to covering "brief excerpts of the Work."
The Electronic Newsstand, by the way, now claims 220 titles and nearly 70,000 accesses a day. Reports call it a wildly successful promotional vehicle.
From the newsletter of the Periodical Writers Association of Canada: "For many publishers, it isn't a matter of negotiation; it's simply a matter of taking. The actual value of electronically republished material isn't their immediate concern if they're not spending any more to get those rights." In other words: If they get it for free, whatever they make from it is gravy.
Writers have recently reported: killing the e-rights clause in an ATLANTIC MONTHLY contract... rewriting a SCHOLASTIC agreement to eliminate all extra uses except electronic and give an added 10 percent of the basic fee should the magazine exercise that right ... deleting the syndication, reprint and indemnification provisions in USAIR's contract ... changing world rights to NA rights and killing the electronic and reprint clauses at NEW CHOICES ... deleting merchandising and Australia/New Zealand rights at ALLURE and DETAILS.
A crash course in copyright in one paragraph? Impossible. But, because so many freelancers and editors are confused, here's a try: Unless you've signed a work-made-for-hire agreement before you begin, or otherwise transferred copyright, when you write something it's yours. The work need not be published. You need not register it with the Copyright Office. And no, you need not put a little "c" in a circle after it: The copyright belongs to you. If your work is published in a magazine, the magazine may
register the entire issue and put a little "c" in a circle upfront with a note warning that the contents of the magazine belong to the publisher. That, however, refers to the issue in its entirety. The copyright in your work is yours unless and until, induced by cash or cowed by threats, you sign it away.
So, to answer a question many have raised about those online magazines on America Online that put their own copyright notice at the end of each article: Yes--unless they've obtained copyright from the author, they're claiming something that isn't theirs. ATLANTIC MONTHLY and SMITHSONIAN, for example, call themselves the copyright holders. TRAVEL HOLIDAY properly lists its authors as owners of copyright.
[The American Society of Journalists and Authors is the national organization of leading freelance writers. Inquiries from all are welcome.]
Subj: Re:ASJA Contracts Watch 2/1/95- 95-02-03 10:24:11 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Thanks again, Leah.
Subj: Re:Which side are you on? 95-02-04 20:25:50 EST
From: Xina
Posted on: America Online
I, too, have been on both sides of the glossy page. I'm currently a magazine writer, and I find slow payment a particularly infuriating problem. I also hate when a magazine expresses interest in an idea, asks for a detailed proposal, and then decides they don't like the idea after all. Editors can be so pathetic--so much the pawns of their editors-in-chief--changing their idea of what's great all the time. They just know how desperately we need them--it sucks!
Oh and another thing I really hate is being made to wait indefinitely for a bought article to actually appear in the magazine! I wrote this one piece which was purchased almost two years ago by a "big-deal" magazine. I recently asked my editor (who loved the piece when I turned it in) when it was going to run. I got a note back saying they weren't going to print it after all--with no explanation! Help!
I have had some very positive editor experiences as well, but the bad ones hurt so much and we're so alone, we freelancers.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Subj: Re:Which side are you on? 95-02-04 23:58:23 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: America Online
Xina ... did you get paid for the piece? And, if so, did you sell 1st rights or all rights? See, if it was me & I had received payment on acceptance for 1st rights, I'd try to market the idea again. If it was me.
I find that most editors are professional and, if not *caring*, polite. Rude editors seem to be the exception, rather than the rule. However, I think all writers gnash their teeth over that four letter word ... w-a-i-t. It's especially tough when the editor loved your idea, yet you wait months for a decision on the manuscript (all too common in my case).
I don't know about anybody else, but I just try to keep busy as much as possible, which helps to keep my mind off of things. The past 2 months have been slow for me. Consequently, I worry and agonize more about what's out there. And, for me, a *slow* month is maybe 2 queries and an article per week. I find I have to have a bunch on the burners or I go nuts.
Leese
(wondering if one can take Vallium AND Prozak at the same time<g>)
Subj: re: Which side are you on? 95-02-05 00:57:41 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
>>They just know how desperately we need them--it sucks!<<
Xina, it's a two-way street. They need US, too. We should not be in the position (in an IDEAL world, hehe) where we need an editor bad enough to accept any kind of careless behavior. There are a ton of professionally-run magazines out there. Cheerfully move on to a publication with people who know what they're doing, and who have enough empathy with their writers to treat and pay them decently.
In my experience, it has paid off to be assertive, to signal early on that you're not going to take any [insert AOL-accepted four-letter word here]. For every editor who thinks you're 'difficult' because you put your foot down when it comes to protecting your writing and your livelihood, there are two or three who appreciate your passion and your dedication. (I'm not talking about flying off the handle, but about being 'polite but firm'). I've sometimes found it extremely gratifying to simply bid adieu to a stubbornheaded, stingy, or rude editor (and I agree with Sgrief, they ARE the exception) who thought s/he was holding all the cards on the assumption that I needed the magazine more than it needed me. Hey, I still pay the rent and buy groceries.
Good luck!
RogierNL
Subj: Re:Which side are you on? 95-02-05 11:21:42 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
I second Rogier's remarks. I
've almost never gotten angry with an editor, since I figure they usually have a reason for their actions. Now, whether or not that reason is acceptable to me is another matter. I try to behave as professionally as possible--and that includes expecting civil treatment from them. If I don't get civil treatment, I move smartly along. There are more magazines out there than I could write for in my lifetime if they ALL lusted after me. Why should I put up with the wierd people?
I generally just stop working for the wierdos, rather than tell them off. No money in telling people off. I have told one or two who asked that this is NOT a baseball game; that they don't get three strikes. When I was an editor I told a few writers the same thing, so it goes both ways.
I think we all need bumper stickers: "So Many Editors--So Little Time". And we need to stop feeling inferior.
-steve
Subj: Re:Which side are you on? 95-02-05 12:05:02 EST
From: SusanS29
Posted on: America Online
"I got a note back saying they weren't going to print it after all--with no explanation! Help!"
That happened to me. I was so excited! It was the first article I'd ever written, and I *sold* it! It went to a widely-read regional magazine (one of the AAA magazines).
I was thrilled. I cashed the check.
I waited, and waited... and then, two issues later, there was a *major* change in editors, editorial policy, format and slant of the magazine. It now focused on regions, and my article was regionally generic.
It got swept into the trashcan along with the old editor (who loved it) and the old format.
That's life. You just have to go on. I agree. There's no point burning the editor. You don't really know the reasons for the action. The *editor* may be working for a total turkey. The same editor could turn up in a new publication and be far easier to work with.
I was just interviewed by a newspaper reporter because of an area of expertise I have. Unfortunately her hands were tied; her editor asked her to write the piece, and clearly *he* had an inaccurate bias about the subject. I spent an hour on the phone with the lady, and I'm certain anything I said got cut. These things happen.
Subj: Resume 95-02-05 14:41:35 EST
From: Amoona
Posted on: America Online
I am about to send out my first magazine query (I write mainly newspaper stuff and wires). I am enclosing clips, but what about a resume? Do I need to send it as well? Thanks for any advice on this matter.
Subj: Re:Resume 95-02-05 15:09:06 EST
From: SusanS29
Posted on: America Online
My opinion? Don't send a resume. It won't help if they don't like your writing, and if they do like your writing, they won't care.
The exception is if you're writing in some area of specialty. For instance,i write a lot about learning, attention deficit disorders, learning disabilities, etc. My master's plus in special education is significant there, but I would just mention it in a letter, not include a resume.
2/16/95 3:23:56 PM Opening ÒSystem Log 2/16/95.12Ó for recording.
Subj: ASJA Contracts Watch in library 95-02-05 18:27:24 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
In case you missed it, the latest ASJA Contracts Watch is available for download in the non-fiction writers library.
Subj: Re:Which side are you on? 95-02-05 18:30:07 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Sgrief wrote, in response to a writer's frustration about selling a piece and then finding out two years later that it will never run:
<<Xina ... did you get paid for the piece? And, if so, did you sell 1st rights or all rights? See, if it was me & I had received payment on acceptance for 1st rights, I'd try to market the idea again. If it was me.>>
I agree with Sgrief's advice. Four years ago, Sports Illustrated bought a piece of mine. After languishing in inventory for two years, I called my editor to find out if the piece would ever run. She told me she doubted it, and I promptly asked for all rights back, to which she agreed. I'm currently trying to do the same thing with Relax Magazine, a travel magazine for doctors, which bought a piece 1 1/2 years ago and STILL hasn't run it. It's on Eastern Europe, a truly hot topic, and I'm confident I could sell it elsewhere.
Leah
Subj: Re:Resume 95-02-05 18:35:15 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Amoona asks: <<I am about to send out my first magazine query (I write mainly newspaper stuff and wires). I am enclosing clips, but what about a resume? Do I need to send it as well? Thanks for any advice on this matter.>>
The only time I would think a resume would be appropriate is if you have some real-life experience (and perhaps not the clips) to support your idea. For example, if you want to write about education and you spent 15 years as a teacher, then I would wholeheartedly tell you to send along a resume. If you're just sending it to fill the envelope, I might hold off.
Leah
Subj: Feb 6th magazine workshop news 95-02-06 11:12:55 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Hey Gang!
Winter has finally hit NYC and it is freezing, which in its own way leads me
to this week's topic. See, yesterday I bought a coat for the first time in
four years. Actually, my dad got it for me, as a belated christmas (Chanukah)
present. Now, I could have bought my own coat, but it wouldn't have been as
nice as this one, the reason being I simply couldn't afford it. Not that I'm
not doing well as a freelancer; just not so well that I can pay for a
*lovely* new coat. And that's the focus of this week's discussion: As
freelancers is it possible to turn a sizable profit from our work? Can we buy
the things we need? We want? Sometimes it's easier if you're married, or have
a job on the side, but with those things come distractions that can take you
away from writing. The big question is: How do any of us strike the balance
between slaving over our computers and living the good life?
Bring your thoughts to the WRITERS WORKSHOP ROOM, tonight, Monday, February 6
@ 10 p.m. EST.
Bragger's Corner
RogierNL: His humor piece on telephone psychics appears in the current issue
of WIRED. Rogeir has two other assignments from WIRED, one that runs between
8,000-9,000 words and will appear in early summer. He also has assignments
from MARKETING COMPUTERS and GERMAN VOGUE.
Dark Print: Had a feature on one of the world's top boomerang throwers in the
January 22nd issue of the AKRON BEACON SUNDAY MAGAZINE. Her profile of Toni
Morrison will appear in the March issue of OHIO WRITER.
ShariHenry: Has an article in the Feb/March issue of FAMILY FUN.
See y'all tonight,
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Resume 95-02-06 11:14:04 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
All editors care about is how well you write. It amazes me how many high falutin' writers I have met who don't even have college degrees, so I don't think a resume matters one bit.
Jennifer
Subj: ASJA grumble 95-02-06 18:32:37 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Several regulars on this board frequently extoll the virtues of ASJA. I won't argue with that; I'm sure it's a wonderful organization. But those wanting to join should be aware of certain, um, idiosyncracies in ASJA's application process. For instance, ASJA may not WANT you, unless you're a blue-blooded American WITHOUT any namby-pamby FOREIGN writing credits. Those, you see, can work against you.
Sour grapes? Oh, sure. My application was rejected. >>Although your writing is obviously of professional quality,<< said the letter I received in the mail today, >> we regret that the credits you have submitted do not fulfill the ASJA's requirements for membership.<<
I assume that's because I included three or four pieces from English-language but non-US magazines, such as British Elle, and a recent giant feature in the London Sunday Telegraph, as WELL as three American Wired features. I'm sure ASJA intended no insult, but intent and effect can be two different things; Do I detect a whiff of xenophobia in the air?
[As some of you may know, I'm Dutch, moved to the US in late 1991, and didn't start writing and selling my stuff in English until early last year. Even so, I've been a professional freelance writer for fifteen years, with half a dozen feature stories for Wired under my belt, as well as bylines in the Sunday Telegraph in London, The Sydney Morning Herald, British Elle, German Vogue, and so on].
I COULD just resubmit an application with American stuff only, but frankly, I'm not sure about ASJA anymore. Maybe Groucho Marx had it right: you shouldn't want to belong to any club that would have you as a member. ;-)
Rogier
Subj: Re: ARTICLE STORAGE 95-02-06 18:44:37 EST
From: GRUFFNESS
Posted on: America Online
A Hawaiian magazine paid me 600.00 for an article last year and never printed it, and I have 5 articles in the bank with a Cowles publication which they have promised to run when they find the --right spot--for it. But, they've done that before and eventually paydirt is struck, and when you have many in transit and assignments to fulfill and queries to send, you do not notice those slow mags so much until the check and copies arrive. Remember, we're in BUSINESS and not hobbyists, so we have to behave accordingly and sometimes have to live by their myriad rules-so long as they are not abusive. Editors are merely editors and cannot be editors without your work. So submit, wait, be published ( sell) and collect, then submit some more of those gems we all write.
Subj: Working Class Writers 95-02-06 19:05:37 EST
From: Toddwriter
Posted on: America Online
I recently published an essay on growing up in a working class family - the transition from clutching one set of assumptions to moving into the educated and middle class world.
Essay was reprinted in the Utne Reader - continues to generate mail to me (very rare in my experience).
Would like to know if other writers share that experience and have written on the topic.
I am brand new to the online world - still finding my way.
email me at Toddwriter.
Subj: Re:ASJA grumble 95-02-06 19:43:15 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
Rogier, you write, "I assume (my ASJA rejection was) because I included three or four pieces from English-language but non-US magazines, such as British Elle, and a recent giant feature in the London Sunday Telegraph, as WELL as three American Wired features...."
That's one problem. You're making an assumption. Is there any way for you to verify that?
I assume (don't we all) that you met all other requirements? Letters of recommendation from assorted editors, sheer length of time spent freelancing? Whatever else--it's been so long since I joined that I know not what the rules are now days.
As I recall I had to wait to join ASJA because, even though I had been doing it full-time for several years and had the necessary publishing credits, I still hadn't been doing it LONG ENOUGH. I waited and joined when I could.
If you can think of some way I could help, let me know. Or anybody else here, I'm sure. You have friends here and with us behind you, who needs ASJA?
-steve
Subj: Re:ASJA grumble 95-02-07 12:03:22 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Rogier:
I'm really sorry ASJA rejected your application, but I'm not sure it's for the reasons you stated -- <<I assume that's because I included three or four pieces from English-language but non-US magazines, such as British Elle, and a recent giant feature in the London Sunday Telegraph, as WELL as three American Wired features. I'm sure ASJA intended no insult, but intent and effect can be two different things>>
When I first applied, I sent in a lot of work I'd done for controlled circulation magazines that were published in house by companies. They sniffed at these clips, promptly turned up their noses and said, "Sorry, doesn't count." I had a big issue with this, but that's a whole different story. Perhaps they want more than four feature length pieces (were your Wired ones published or just manuscripts?), but I doubt the foreign magazines had anything to do with it. There are a handful of members who live abroad. According to my directory, there are 21, living in such diverse places as Hong Kong, The Czech Republic and the Phillipines.
Perhaps ASJA should have some sort of follow up review process, where you can find out specifically what they didn't find acceptable (as I did with my controlled circ pieces, but that's because I asked). Why don't you give the headquarters (212-997-0947) a call and see if someone will talk to you? Then, you can report back to us and let us know exactly the kind of credentials they wanted you to submit.
Again, I'm sorry this happened, and I hope things work out.
Leah
Subj: Re:ASJA grumble 95-02-07 14:54:46 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Leah:
I took your advice and talked with Alexandra Cantor at ASJA. She said the membership committee did not discard the foreign stories as invalid, but that these "don't carry as much weight" as my American credits. So the Sunday Telegraph feature, fore instance, (two full, newspaper-sized pages, and I don't mean the tabloid size!) got "perhaps half a credit." Hmm. They'll keep my file open "in case you want to add to it," and I was told that I had come "very close." My my! Call the liquor store and get out the paper hats!! ;-)
But seriously: I guess what surprises me most is that they didn't get in touch with me, nor with the references I had given them at their request, prior to tossing my application in the waste bin. Any one of those calls would've quickly cleared up any confusion there may have been.
Like I said, I still think ASJA is a worthwhile club, and Ms. Cantor was certainly pleasant when I talked with her, but I don't know -- I may take the Groucho adage to heart after all. Thanks for listening to me grumble.
Rogier
Subj: Business/Finance Writers 95-02-07 15:19:53 EST
From: R Kenneth
Posted on: America Online
I'm looking for freelancers with substantial experience in writing corporate profile-type pieces for the business press. Hope this isn't off topic.
In particular, I need 1000 word articles on companies I will specify. Outline to include: management team, financial resources, technologies, products, market and market potential. Info to come from phone interviews of investor relations people.
Please send private e-mail to R Kenneth with brief resume and a rate. Thanks!
Subj: Re:Cosmobull's Ed/ 95-02-07 19:27:53 EST
From: Milder123
Posted on: America Online
I understand how editors must feel when writers don't complete
assignments to their credit. However, as a conscientious writer it
bothers me to hear your complaints - especially when I have
difficulty getting new assignments, and when editors frequently
lose my proposals, don't reply to them (despite my SASE), etc.
Perhaps you could suggest what a writer, who doesn't commit any of the offenses you mentioned is supposed to do to "make it"?
Milder 123
Subj: Re:Cosmobull's Ed/ 95-02-07 21:50:09 EST
From: Cosmobull
Posted on: America Online
1) Write well.
2) Know your markets.
3) Care about what you do.
4) Be professional in your work.
Subj: Glamour magazine guidelines? 95-02-07 23:20:19 EST
From: ChrisEGray
Posted on: America Online
To anyone -
I am working on an article that I think would be appropriate for Glamour magazine. Has anyone out there contributed anything to this publication? Do you know what steps I should take before submitting the article? I am a newspaper reporter and I'm unfamiliar with the world of freelance. I'd appreciate any advice emailed to my address. Thanks!
Chris Gray
ChrisEGray@aol.com
Subj: Beginners encouraging each other 95-02-08 04:38:54 EST
From: DonWWhite
Posted on: America Online
I'm looking for other beginning writers so we can encourage each other to reach out goals. I can use it and I know there are others out there too. Let me know. Let's help each other whether it's giving each other a weekly kick in the e-mail butt, or whatever. Don White
Subj: Stupid Question 95-02-08 07:33:28 EST
From: Amoona
Posted on: America Online
If I query a magazine and send clips with it and the editor declines the idea, do I need to send another set of clips with the next query I attempt to the same magazine? Thanks anybody.
Stephanie (Amoona)
Subj: A proverbial kick 95-02-08 10:28:52 EST
From: Gigi1234
Posted on: America Online
Don,
I'll kick you if you kick me! I have a binder full of GREAT
article ideas and I can't even get a query letter finished!
Jeeezz what would I do if I had to write the article, and ohmygod what if I had a deadline. Well actually I work pretty well under pressure. Well actually, I don't work at all unless I am under pressure. One thing we might want to do is analize our procrastination, or we can call it writers block if you prefer. LOL Jeezz, I have to run, if you want me to e-mail you, give me a hint about what you write, etc. Au revoir, Gigi
Subj: Re:Which side are you on? 95-02-08 10:32:44 EST
From: BethTomQ
Posted on: America Online
Hi, all. I've haven't been around much lately. Too busy--which is good I guess. However, now that I've caught up on the posts, I'd like to add my two cents regarding these comments by Xina:
<<I also hate when a magazine expresses interest in an idea, asks for a detailed proposal, and then decides they don't like the idea after all. Editors can be so pathetic--so much the pawns of their editors-in-chief--changing their idea of what's great all the time. >>
I admit, I've been guilty of exactly what you're talking about--but it's not intentional. As with most editors, I receive my fair share of phone queries. If I like the sound of the pitch, I request a more detailed outline--in writing--so that I can get a feel for the person's style and have something with which to approach my boss. If the query is well thought out and articulate, then there's a good chance that it will lead to an assignment. If it's not, I suggest they try again.
I hate to say it, but some freelancers can talk better than they can write. The "detailed proposal" alerts me to that. And yes, sometimes *I* think an idea is great, but my editorial director hates it. All I can say in response to our being "pawns of our editors-in-chief" is this: people are sometimes on different wavelengths, so I warn writers upfront that there is a chance that my editorial director will decline the idea. In other words, I offer no guarantees. However, if I've taken the time to present your idea to him, then I like your work and will eagerly accept any queries if the one in question does not pan out. Something is bound to hit eventually.
Although I can't speak for all editors, given the time constraints of my job, I'd never encourage a writer to put effort into queries unless I thought there was a real chance that we could work together.
That's that.
Subj: Re:Stupid Question 95-02-08 10:55:50 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Amoona writes:
If I query a magazine and send clips with it and the editor declines the idea, do I need to send another set of clips with the next query I attempt to the same magazine?
It depends. Sometimes they keep your clips on file, sometimes they don't. Usually they tell you if they do. Still, a file is a file and sending a fresh batch better insures that they'll be read. Also, include any new clips that might not have been sent along with earlier packages.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Stupid Question 95-02-08 12:54:07 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Amoona asks: <<If I query a magazine and send clips with it and the editor declines the idea, do I need to send another set of clips with the next query I attempt to the same magazine? >>
My rule of thumb is if I was going to send the magazine the same clips AND it's within two months of my last query, then I simply write in the query "since I recently queried you and included clips on XYZ, I've not included any clips with this letter. However, if you would like to see additional examples of my writing, please don't hesitate to call."
On the other hand, if I'd just gotten a new clips that I'm really proud of, I'd probably throw it in with the subsequent query.
I've found that editors who genuinely like your writing will start a file of your clips and keep them on hand for when new ideas come in.
Hope that helps.
Leah
Subj: Re:<< Let's Make a Trade >> 95-02-08 22:23:56 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Ooooooh! Now we can get paid in one or two megs of Chamber of Commerce information, instead of dollars! And maybe those contacts Marvin has to offer will allow us a glance into THEIR rolodexes as well, as an alternative form of payment. Think about it, folks... It won't pay your grocery bills, but this is a dream come true if you're into collecting strangers' addresses!
;-)
Rogier
Subj: Re:<< Let's Make a Trade >> 95-02-09 20:18:34 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: America Online
Citywoman says ... <<We may be poor. We may be starving. But we're not desperate.>>
Sorry, City ... but I'm laughing here 'cuz at 5'1" (or 5'2" on a good day) and a size 18 ... I haven't been referred to as "starving" at any point in my entire after-baby life <vbwg&w> [translated + very big wide grin and wink]
Thanks, though, for the compliment ;)
Subj: missed opportunitites 95-02-10 08:26:16 EST
From: SusanS29
Posted on: America Online
"Ooooooh! Now we can get paid in one or two megs of Chamber of Commerce information, instead of dollars!"
Gollygeewhiz. I didn't read this folder for a while. LOOK WHAT I MISSED: another opportunity to write for free. Shuckydurn...
It amazes me. It does seem that all the people who think we should write for free come up with the same justifications, over and over.
It reminds me of teaching school. Every year the kids would come up with the same stunts for a substitute teacher, always thinking that *they* had been the only ones to ever think of, say, having everyone answer to wrong names.
In other words--they all think like eight-year olds. :)
Subj: Re:missed opportunitites 95-02-10 17:02:33 EST
From: MaryWrites
Posted on: America Online
I've lurked on the sidelines for a long time because I've enjoyed the comments of so many successful professional writers. However, after the flaming given VisiualCom, I wonder if I belong here. Do we need to pass some kind of screening to be allowed in here without being attacked?
Subj: Re:missed opportunitites 95-02-10 19:24:15 EST
From: Strywever
Posted on: America Online
Maybe it would have been more constructive (but a lot less fun!) to steer VisualComm over to the copywriters forum. Seems to me some folks who are just starting out might be able to put his list to good use.
Just a thought ...
Subj: Advice, Anyone? 95-02-10 19:40:59 EST
From: Strywever
Posted on: America Online
I've just learned the editor of a local community newspaper is "always looking" for good freelancers. I was a good corporate writer and communication manager for 16 years, until I left a few months ago to give freelancing a real try. (Something I always wanted to do, but couldn't risk until recently). The woman I spoke to at the paper told me to send him a resume. Unfortunately, everything on my resume is corporate, and so are my clips. How should I approach this guy? With my corporate clips? With something I write just to convince him I can do it? Or ... ?
Thanks for any advice you seasoned pros can give me.
Subj: Re:VisiualCom, MaryWrites 95-02-10 20:12:10 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
He's already posted in the Copywriter's area, and several other places, too. I've explained the difference between advertorial and editorial in one of them...I'll spare you all the joys of a million cross-postings. But I do have two comments about his posting and MaryWrites response to it. First, there was a lot that WAS insulting about VisiualCom's posting...Jennifer handled that pretty well I thought. Second, MaryWrites, the only requirement for posting here and not getting flamed is that you mostly stick to writing and not insult anybody. It's easy!
Subj: Re:VisiualCom, MaryWrites 95-02-10 20:21:59 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Exactly, Brigitta. What visiualcom wrote was insulting. One subtext of this folder is any writer's individual worth. Too often people try to barter with us, as if somehow we don't need money, or don't deserve it, or that lists such as the one visiualcom offered are useful. I don't understand why marywrites would project out attacks on one person as an attack on her. Unless, of course, she intends to ask us to write for free :)
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Advice, Anyone? 95-02-10 20:22:59 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Send her your most "newsy" clips. I don't see any reason why you can't make the transition. Good Luck.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Glamour magazine guidelines? 95-02-10 20:53:32 EST
From: SCAN911
Posted on: America Online
Glamour has worked with newspaper writers in the past. I did a piece for Glamour about a little more than a year ago. In fact, I got the piece because they called the paper where I worked looking for a writer to handle an assignment (I didn't jump too fast!).
Figure out what editor you need to contact. I fully recommend you read the magazine first (several issues). Also, don't be surprised to get a complete rewrite on your piece. They edit a lot. My requested 500-word piece turned into 750 words when they needed more info, but it was cut down to 250 words when it ran. I was paid for a 500-word piece, though.
I fully found working with Glamour to be very good. I enjoyed the short-term relationship I had with their folks. They are good to work with...especially on deadline as I was doing.
Chuck
SCAN911
Subj: Re:women who write 95-02-11 00:59:28 EST
From: SNewmark
Posted on: America Online
I'd like to invite those females in this group to sample our Women Who Write folder and group meetings (Wed. nite in jugglers private room at 10 p.m.) We also have done critiques and have been organized just over a month! As a newspaper/magazine writer, I could use some support, as many of them are trying fiction and novels as opposed to journalism. besides, I'd like to meet more of you. Sandi
Subj: Re:Advice, Anyone? 95-02-11 05:27:46 EST
From: CharlieDIY
Posted on: America Online
Wait until you see what that community newspaper is willing to pay freelancers!
Corporate clips should work fine, though, if they're not too stuffy.
Subj: personal story 95-02-11 11:30:04 EST
From: Sing2him2
Posted on: America Online
Back in September of 1960 I left Cuba - family, friends, job, and possessions - to start a new life here. I have written some of my experiences and would like to know if there would be an interest in this subject. I mainly wrote it in order that my children, US born, would know what life was like in Cuba, and the things their mother went through when trying to adjust to an entirely new way of life. How about it? Is anyone interested? Thanks for replying.
Subj: Re:personal story 95-02-11 12:24:34 EST
From: RogierNL
Posted on: America Online
Any number of magazines publish personal essays, but they're usually not very long. You'd probably have a hard time getting it published if it was over 2,000 words; less is better. Check out the various women's magazines and develop a feel for their tone and content, and see if your account 'fits.' General interest publications such as Newsweek ("My Turn") and The New York Sunday Times Magazine ("His/Hers") also make room for personal stories, but the writing, in the latter case at least, has to be pretty darn good.
RogierNL
Subj: Attn. Magazine Writers! 95-02-11 18:17:52 EST
From: SWhittles
Posted on: America Online
Hi! Just signed up with AOL & have enjoyed perusing everyone's comments regarding this crazy biz we're in. What I'm curious to know is what publications do you all regularly write for? Would love to swap some inside scoop! (Editors, pay rate, etc.) I've written for Reader's Digest, Los Angeles Times Magazine, New Woman, Writer's Digest, Catholic Digest (and I'm Presbyterian!), Guideposts, Woman's World, etc. And you know something? When I started in '83 with some top national markets (yes, believe it or not, I broke in right off the bat without even querying--just wrote up the article and sent it in to a woman's publication I knew like the back of my hand: 250 words for $250), they paid $1 a word--which is still the going rate today! It hasn't gone up! What I try to do is think of my hourly rate--not necessarily the per word rate. Recently, for example, I accepted a job as monthly columnist for a major city newspaper. It pays only $150 for 1,000 words, but I figure if I can do the interview and write the piece within 3 hours (which I just did for the first one), that's not bad. So sometimes that's how you have to look at it. Recently I wrote an essay piece for a newspaper (750 words, took 45 minutes to do) for $75. So, in some cases, this pays better than the biggies (one of my friends just got paid $1,500 for a 2,000-word magazine piece that involved numerous rewrites, headaches, editor flak. She estimates that it took her about a month to do, since it involved interviewing 15 different pharmacists! No, thanks!)
Some of you have asked about essay-writing. I've written about 75 "commentaries" for major U.S. newspapers (including Los Angeles Times), earning anywhere from $50-$125 each. I love doing these (some can even be recycled, published over and over; I made $1,000 doing just that on just one). They don't take long to do, involve no research, let me get something (argumentative, humorous, whatever) off my chest--and it's a better way (and cheaper!) to relieve stress than seeing a shrink!!
Re: ASJA--which some of you have wondered about. I've been a member for 2 years and think it's definitely worth the high membership dues. I've attended several of their annual N.Y. conferences (where, by the way, I met the Reader's Digest editor who eventually bought one of my previously published op-ed pieces for $1200) and am going to the one in L.A. this next weekend (call (212) 997-0947 for info). I also faithfully read Writer's Digest, buy an updated Writer's Market every year, have attended numerous writers' conferences throughout the years.
The #1 piece of advice I can pass on: Familarize yourself with the publications you want to write for, learn to think like an editor, be professional, and read everything you can get your hands on (and network!) for ideas. I get many ideas right off my local TV news! Don't forget to peruse church bulletins, company and alumni newsletters, etc. Good luck to all of you and do hope to hear from some of you!
Subj: Re:women who write 95-02-11 19:35:50 EST
From: Sgrief
Posted on: America Online
Directions please? I can't seem to find the folder. Thanks.
Subj: Re:Advice, Anyone? 95-02-11 19:51:59 EST
From: SusanS29
Posted on: America Online
A local community newspaper is an excellent way to start out with writing for pay. In fact, the local community paper didn't pay me for my first article, but did use it as a test, and I was a "stringer" for them afterwards for a while.
Now I have a book coming out, and since I worked with them they have a special interest in me and will be doing a feature article on me and my book. And that's not small potatoes: the community papers in this town are read by more people than the "big" daily paper is read by.
Subj: Re:missed opportunitites 95-02-11 19:57:20 EST
From: SusanS29
Posted on: America Online
Mary, VisualWrites came into a folder populated by writers accustomed to being paid, and offered to barter with something that's essentially useless.
When these people didn't like that, he insulted them--among other things, calling them "so-called writers."
Writing a script for a video is a tremendously challenging task, and I do think he blew it big time.
I don't know what your writing background is, but I have seen an awful lot of people who think writers should write essentially for free. I'm still owed money by one computer mag who figures that since I got the review software they don't have to pay me... as if I could sell the software to buy groceries or something.
he was insulting. I doubt you will be.
Subj: Re:Advice, Anyone? 95-02-11 20:13:59 EST
From: Jordy3235
Posted on: America Online
Susan and Charlie are right. Community papers don't pay great but it's a great building block to other things. I've been the editor of a community newspaper for about six months. Before that I freelanced. I began with freelancing for the same community paper which gave me clips to send to other places.
I don't know how transatable my experience is, but I'm desperate for good writers and my sense is that most community papers are too, because they have a much narrower pool of talent geographically to draw from. Generally, the people who write for me have full-time jobs and like to write. I tell anyone who calls me just to send me a sample of their writing even if it's just a college paper. Freelancers have to start somewhere and a community paper is likely to be the place.
I'd say you're way ahead of the game.
Subj: How much to charge? 95-02-12 03:33:07 EST
From: NKALISH
Posted on: America Online
I have been approached by a European mag to do a nonfiction article, which I have faxed to them. It is 10 pages. I am a published writer, but have no mag experience. How do the fees get set? Can I charge by the hour, or is it by the page? What is fair? This is a big magazine. Thanks.
Subj: Re:Advice, Anyone? 95-02-12 12:57:14 EST
From: Strywever
Posted on: America Online
Thanks to Susan, Charlie, Jordy et al for your encouragement. I'm fully prepared to get paid peanuts by the locals, but I figure the publication credits will do me far more good in the long run. And meanwhile, I'll just keep querying the magazines I really want to write for. Sooner or later, something will click, right?
By the way, at the risk of getting schmaltzy, may I tell you all how thrilled I was to find you when I signed on to AOL a short time ago. Your generosity of spirit is unbelievable. So much experience, skill and talent here, and you all seem so willing to share what you know. I never encountered anything like it in corporate America. Guess that's one of the reasons I left!
Subj: Re:Strywever 95-02-12 14:12:40 EST
From: Brigitta T
Posted on: America Online
Hi, Stry,
Welcome aboard, and, if I may speak for the regulars, thanks for the compliments. If you hang around, you'll see we're all human and each of us (including me) does get the grumpy-cramps now and then. But you are right about the depth of knowledge and generosity here: I've certainly benefited from it, and I know you will too!
Brigitta T
Subj: Help the novice 95-02-12 15:38:25 EST
From: JAS Hintze
Posted on: America Online
I'm a former newspaper reporter/editor who would like to make the jump to freelance magazine writing. Problem is, I don't know how to start. Do I choose a magazine and come up with ideas that fit its readership? Do I come up with story ideas and pitch them to appropriate magazines?
Help. I'm lost.
P.S. I've been reading your interesting messages. How on earth do you find markets that pay $700 to $1,200? I just did a newspaper feature for $35!
Subj: Re:Help the novice 95-02-12 20:10:18 EST
From: CharlieDIY
Posted on: America Online
I suggest choosing a major or near major magazine whose content interests you. Make sure you read a number of recent issues, and then come up with a few ideas. Work the ideas up just enough to be able to write an interesting query letter (you can use a rifle--single shot--or scattergun approach, but I've had my best results with single idea queries). Select the articles editor from the masthead (or senior editor: depending on the mag, this will differ), and fire off your query.
Good luck.
Subj: Re:How much to charge? 95-02-13 08:02:13 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
NKALISH writes:
I have been approached by a European mag to do a nonfiction article, which I have faxed to them. It is 10 pages. I am a published writer, but have no mag experience. How do the fees get set? Can I charge by the hour, or is it by the page? What is fair?
Magazines usually pay by the word. Most major national publications pay between $1 and $1.50 a word ($2 if you're lucky) and Euro mags (depending on scale) tend to pay the same. Since 10 pages equals about 2,500 words you may have a bit of money coming in!
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Help the novice 95-02-13 08:04:39 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
One thing to remember is that magazine articles are much different than newspaper articles. They tend to demand a more sophisticated structure and more airtight reporting. I learned this the hard way when I made the jump from newspapers to magazines. While I was proficient at the 1,000 word newspaper feature, I was lost when trying to expand that same story to 4,000 words.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Help the novice 95-02-13 08:04:50 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
One thing to remember is that magazine articles are much different than newspaper articles. They tend to demand a more sophisticated structure and more airtight reporting. I learned this the hard way when I made the jump from newspapers to magazines. While I was proficient at the 1,000 word newspaper feature, I was lost when trying to expand that same story to 4,000 words.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Help the novice 95-02-13 15:35:35 EST
From: CianTest
Posted on: America Online
I agree with Citywoman. When I made the transition from newspapers to magazines, I quickly found out that the two mediums are as almost as different as print media is from broadcasting.
magazine writing not only requires more airtight reporting, but also more story-telling . Best way to notice the difference is to read as many magazine articles as possible.
Subj: novicwriter 95-02-13 15:37:21 EST
From: CianTest
Posted on: America Online
by the way, I'm really Mrscocoa, but I just started my new job at AOL and this is just my logon for the first week. I'll have another account soon. Life in the electronic newsroom is a whole new world.
Subj: Re:How much to charge? 95-02-13 16:33:27 EST
From: SWhittles
Posted on: America Online
Hi! Magazines pay per word and normally have their own rates set. You should ask them upfront what their rate is. If you're an experienced professional writer, you should receive 50 cents to $1 per word if it's a major publication. You might consult Writer's Market 1995 for more info. Also, be sure to check what rights you're selling too. It pays to do your homework on this and be savvy--even if it's your first magazine publication. Let me know what happens!
Subj: Re:personal story 95-02-13 17:01:36 EST
From: JoshJacks
Posted on: America Online
Why is it so hard to find a home for personal, experiential essays? They are certainly a hell of a lot more entertaining to read than a news report and equally more entertaining to write. I've written a couple pieces that would fall under the budding (still) field of literary journalism, and I'm just beginning to seek outlets for them. I'm relatively new to freelance journalism (1 year out of college), so I would love to hear about any good magazines that are open to experiential, first-person writing. Thanks!
Subj: Re:Glamour magazine guidelines? 95-02-13 17:26:39 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Here's my two cents on Glamour (and I don't know if Chuck had the same experience): If you do a short piece, expect to sign a work-for-hire contract. It seems the magazine is buying all rights to the little pieces, so know this going into it. I know Jennifer has had to become increasingly verbal to sell only the rights she wants for the longer pieces, but I believe these contracts are still (essentially) 1st rights.
My Glamour piece, originally contracted for February, won't be out until March. But the way the editorial line up changes there, I wouldn't be surprised if it got pushed back to May. Nonetheless,I can't wait to see the clip.
Leah
Subj: Re:personal story 95-02-13 17:28:41 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Sing2, try sending your essays to women's magazines. It sounds like you've got some compelling stories down on paper, and sending already completed essays (especially if you don't have a lot of clips) may be your best bet. I believe Woman's Day, Redbook, Family Circle etc. would be interested in your stuff. Good luck and keep us posted.
Leah
Subj: Re:Help the novice 95-02-13 17:45:31 EST
From: JfOB
Posted on: America Online
Indeed, the jump from magazines to newspapers is a big one. The biggest hurdle for me was organization. At the newspaper, I just wrote. Now I really have to think it out before I do. But as JAS Hintze pointed out, the rewards on this level can be significantly greater.
Subj: Re:personal story 95-02-13 18:57:00 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
JoshJacks asks:<<Why is it so hard to find a home for personal, experiential essays?>>
One reason, I think, is that oftentimes we perceive ourselves as far more interesting than anyone else does. When mags run personal columns, they look for some universality, something that readers can relate to, even if just to be moved. I have a friend, quite brilliant, who toured the world last year with a backback. Her stories, verbally at least, were fascinating. But on paper they were yawners. It's not enough that an individual story is interesting, it must be presented in an interesting way, and with the proper structure that compels readers to dive in after the first graph.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:Glamour magazine guidelines? 95-02-13 18:58:06 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Glamour, it seems, is trying to buy all rights, period. But it's not just Glamour, it's every Conde Nast Magazine.
Jennifer
Subj: Re transition from news to mag ? 95-02-13 20:09:30 EST
From: GRUFFNESS
Posted on: America Online
I wrote for NBC news and found it difficult to convert to mag articles until I realized staccato writing is for news--just the facts, ma'am--and slower, more casual, more colorful approach to the written word was the way to go. Like my mama used to say...'c-h-e-w your food slowly and wait 30 seconds between bites --you'll enjoy your food more.'
Subj: Re:How much to charge? 95-02-14 03:35:57 EST
From: NKALISH
Posted on: America Online
Thank you for your information. You touched on another question I have. This article is a condensed version of 250 pages I have written towards a research nonfiction book (with data). I have it out to a couple publishers, and an agent has had it since Sept (whatever that means--she's a slow reader? Or are agents allowed to show it around without telling the writers they represent them?) Anyway, my question is that I don't want to hurt the market for my book or give away rights that would preclude my book later. I really don't know what I'm doing. I'm an academic writer, and trade is new to me.
Subj: Re:How much to charge? 95-02-14 10:44:03 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
NKALISH writes:<< This article is a condensed version of 250 pages I have written towards a research nonfiction book (with data). I have it out to a couple publishers, and an agent has had it since Sept (whatever that means--she's a slow reader? Or are agents allowed to show it around without telling the writers they represent them?) Anyway, my question is that I don't want to hurt the market for my book or give away rights that would preclude my book later.>>>
First, no agent can show your book without approval.
Secondly, since your book isn't sold yet, its appearance in a magazine could spark interest; it's common for books to spin out of magazine articles and you'd be one step ahead.
Good luck!
Jennifer
Subj: Latest on Electronic Databases 95-02-14 13:39:11 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Folks:
Here's the latest scoop on magazine articles appearing on electronic databases. It seems, based on this new information, that databases can indeed track usage of articles and therefore provide writers with royalties. In fact, I just sent a letter to Women's Sports and Fitness demanding 80 percent royalty of all monies they receive from an article of mine they put on line (after I'd signed a 1st NA contract!) two years ago. I'll keep you posted on what happens. Anyway, here's the info on the databases:
INFORMATION ACCESS COMPANY CONFIRMS WRITERS' RIGHTS ISSUE IN DATABASE MARKETING
In its first suggestion that the marketing of freelance writers' magazine
articles on full-text electronic databases involves issues of creators'
rights, the corporate parent of Information Access Company (IAC)
acknowledged that it can track and account for the resale of works on its
databases.
The statement -- by the supplier of fee-based article delivery services at
CompuServe, Dialog, Dow Jones News Retrieval and many others -- came in a February 2 letter by Jerrell W. Shelton, president executive officer of
Thomson Business Information, to Jonathan Tasini, president of the National Writers Union (NWU). The Thomson Corporation, based in Canada, recently purchased IAC from Ziff Communications for $465 million. A demand by nearly 100 writers for an accounting of the electronic resale of their magazine articles on IAC databases is part of "Operation Magazine Index," a project of the NWU Journalism Campaign that was launched last fall and highlighted in a New York Times op-ed page essay by bestselling author Nicholson Baker.
In his letter to Tasini, Shelton wrote that "if your members have an issue
regarding redistribution of materials created by them, they should contact
their publishers directly. We remain prepared to support our providers with
whatever information we can (including transaction-based data) in order for
them to abide by their financial obligations to their authors."
IAC thus became the second major database operator to confirm the feasibility of transaction-based accounting. The CARL Corporation has already initiated discussions with the NWU for a creators' royalty system at UnCover, a database of articles from thousands of popular magazines and academic journals.
"The implications of the IAC/Thomson letter are clear," said NWU assistant director Irvin Muchnick. "It's been obvious for some time that corporations with the ability to bill an individual home computer user for downloading an article also have the ability to determine how many times each article is ordered and to ensure that a fair share of the profits goes back to the writer. IAC has simply confirmed what CARL told us -- though, unlike CARL, IAC has so far not taken the constructive next step of sitting down with us to design a sensible system that acknowledges the interests of all parties, including creators and consumers, in the new electronic networks."
Muchnick said the NWU would continue to press for a dialogue with
IAC/Thomson. "In the meantime, we advise writers to take this information
back to the publishers with which IAC claims to have licensing agreements. Freelance writers routinely grant only First North American Print Rights to their original publishers, so any such licensing agreements that do not seek their permission are illegitimate. And now we have also verified that the compensation question can be addressed by the same technology that makes the creation of this new marketplace possible in the first place."
NWU president Tasini is the lead plaintiff in a lawsuit against a group of
major publishers and database operators, including the New York Times
Company and Mead Data Central, the operator of Lexis/Nexis. That case, involving similar claims of illegal redistribution of freelancers' works on daabases without their permission and without their being com- pensated, is expected to go to trial later this year in New York Federal Court.
Subj: ethics, sources & the assignment 95-02-14 17:46:06 EST
From: Danyl FL
Posted on: America Online
I've recently landed an incredibly cool job with a marketing company. I write for two trade publications and regularly deal with a small circle of companies that all advertise in the publication. The executives I interview sometimes ask to verify quotes and even ask for a question list before the interview. I usually let them, even the question list. The trade publication has no problem with this, in fact they told me to when I asked for their guidelines regarding this.
My problem though is I hate doing this. When I write for other magazines I don't. I'd like to know what all of you say when interviewees ask for something like this. How do you politely tell them to take a hike? Thanks.
Dan
Subj: Re:Beginners encouraging each ot 95-02-14 18:56:55 EST
From: DESullivan
Posted on: America Online
I'd enjoy "talking" with other beginning writers. I've been writing and sending out for about a year and a half. I've got two small magazine publications but that's it. With two picture books, two short stories and a few nonfiction mamgazine articles in the mail, I've started to receive some positive comments on rejection slips but that's it. I've just recently started to carve out a little area in nonficti
2/16/95 3:29:51 PM Opening ÒSystem Log 2/16/95.14Ó for recording.
on writing which I think might have a market out there. But I gotta say its all a bit discouraging. Regardless, hopi springs eternal . . .
Subj: Re:ethics 95-02-14 19:07:18 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
Dan, one of the most-asked questions by interviewees is "can I see the article before you send it in". Conscientious journalists instinctivly say "hell no" because what the question really asks is, "Do you mind if you and I and the editor conspire to cheat the reader out of accurate information." I refer here to the general quotes situation, NOT to a situation where a writer might want to fax over some statistics or numbers to have someone at the company review them for accuracy.
I used to ask people who posed this question, "Would YOU read an article when you knew the quotes had all been reviewed for political correctness?" Alas, the answer was usually "yes" and instead of asking that question any more I have developed a stock answer.
I now say, "My task is to write a manuscript and turn it in to the editor. A manuscript is not a finished article. Let me give you the editor's phone number, and you can call her and ask her if it's o.k. for you to look at the manuscript."
A very few people will persist and you explain that some magazines would fire you if they ever even suspected that you had shown your notes or quotes to an interview subject. (This is true.)
An equal few will actually call up the editor and pose the question to higher authority. I have had editors call me and tell me to let so-and-so see a copy of the manuscript. And I do it. It's their magazine. If they want crap, that's what they're asking for and that's what I will dutifully deliver.
I probably will not deliver it twice. It annoys me too because I also want my reader to get the best advice and representation possible and if the magazine is going to sell out its readers for an advertiser (a short-sighted policy that has probably sunk as many magazines as anything else) then I want out. I will not write for them again. I have a similar problem now with a major client and am having to gradually ease out because I got too involved. But ease out I will, no matter what they pay.
Your particular problem is that the trade magazine has, essentially, sold out to its advertisers, lock, stock, etc. I'll just guess here that it's also a "controlled-circulation" magazine that hasn't had its circulation audited in years--if ever. It may be that those advertisers who think they're so smart are about the only people reading the magazine. This really happens; see if you can find out if that's the case here.
Every cloud has a light at the end of the tunnel, though. After you get to know those advertisers/businesses pretty well, talk to them on-on-one about your doing any in-house or corporate writing they may require. They now know you and, since your articles were all puff-pieces, they probably think you're a great writer. I've gotten several spin-off pieces, including a corporate history, from similar situations.
Your situation, remember, is no reflection on you. get the most out of it while it lasts. But don't lose your integrity in the process.
-steve
Subj: Re:Beginners encouraging each ot 95-02-14 19:13:20 EST
From: DESullivan
Posted on: America Online
Oops - sorry about the typos in my last message. I generally edit the pieces I send to publishers a bit more carefully than my AOL messages!!!
Subj: Re:ethics, sources & the assignm 95-02-14 20:54:42 EST
From: Cath803
Posted on: America Online
Danyl --
I think Steve might have misunderstood your question. He seems to think that your sources want to review the entire article. I agree with steve's advice there -- it just ain't done.
But as I read your post, you have been asked to provide a list of questions as well as verify the quotes you decide to use. This is a very different scenario.
Providing a list of questions is a pain, but not necessarily any breach of ethics, I don't think. Sure, it gives the subject time to formulate answers, but it doesn't give them any control over how you use those answers in your story.
And as far as verifying quotes -- most good magazines do this as a matter of course. It's called fact-checking. They do NOT, however, supply the entire article to the source. They read just the quote over the phone. It's done all the time.Newspapers rarely do it cause there is just not enough time.
Subj: Re:ethics, sources & the assignm 95-02-15 00:22:16 EST
From: Cosmobull
Posted on: America Online
Ditto to Cath's comments. I have no problems sending interviewees a list of questions that I'll ask, making it clear however that while these questions give an idea of what we will cover we'll probably improvise off the score once we get going. Sometimes this helps the interview start off on the right foot.
As for sending people the article to look over, never. Ever. I just tell them I can't as a matter of policy. But I will read back quotes to them at the time if they seem particularly nervous about being misquoted. I don't think that's inappropriate.
I think the larger question is what type of expectations you have raised with the person you are interviewing. Are they going to be surprised by the article in print? Very few people should--even subjects of articles that are critical. In that initial transaction where you are convincing the person to spend time with you for an interview, I feel more like a salesman than a reporter--in that span of 20 seconds to 5 minutes I have launched into my "pitch"--I spin the article (as accurately as I deem fit) to the subject and explain why they fit into it. In most instances, if you show that you know the story and have given a compelling reason for them to speak with you, and you conduct a good interview, they should know what to expect. The only people I feel bad about are those that I interview for stories and are very cooperative, but for space reasons end up on the cutting room floor.
Subj: Re:ethics, sources & the assignm 95-02-15 08:34:35 EST
From: LesDan
Posted on: America Online
Dan--
I do the bulk of my work for trades and I almost always am asked to send questions before an interview. This gives the interview subject time to prepare, which can be necessary if you're asking them for sales figures and the like.
Second, if requested, I'll fax a copy of the quotes and information that pertains to the individual and his/her company. If you've gotten the information correct, there's no reason not to do this. In fact, it makes you look good.
Finally, a point which the others have missed, in trade magazine writing you often need to develop a long-term relationship with an interview subject. You go back to that well quite frequently. Most people won't talk to trades, so it's important to cultivate the ones who do. No point in alienating them.
Subj: Re:ethics, sources & the assignm 95-02-15 08:47:54 EST
From: SteveMoril
Posted on: America Online
Danyl --
Cath803 is right. I misunderstood your question. But I don't much like supplying specific questions ahead of time either. It practically guarantees boring passive-voice bureaucratese BS answers. If it's all you have to go on, it's o.k. but try to get a follow-up phone call if the answers are really self-serving or just dull.
If you just sketch out the topic you'll be asking about in order to let your interviewee prepare or maybe even gather materials so that he or she can give better answers, that's fine.
And LesDan pointed out that writing for trade magazines is somewhat different than writing for the consumer press. He's right, and I know. I write for some trade magazines too. You have to get familiar with the unique world the readers inhabit, talk their talk, walk their walk, etc. But I don't take any guff from them either. If someone doesn't want to talk to me I talk to their competitor instead. Doesn't matter to me.
-steve
Subj: Re:ethics 95-02-15 11:40:15 EST
From: BowTieBook
Posted on: America Online
Dan,
I think your situation reflects a common shortcoming for all of us: We should have determined before hiring on whether the publication was reader-driven or advertiser-driven. Then make our decision to take the job with full knowledge whether we'd be journalists or whores.
In my career, I've jumped into whatever job came along when I've needed one, without giving that much thought. It's also possible to gloss over the facts before taking the job, too, convincing yourself that it's going to be legitimate journalism and not puffery.
Once you're there, however, you have no choice but to play by the publisher's rules. You can work to change those rules, but you probably won't have any luck. The publisher who focuses on advertisers instead of readers is both short-sighted and reading the wrong bottom line.
I get a lot of trade papers -- computers, desktop publishing, photography, publishing. Most of them are free because my company is "qualified." Most of them are trashed because they are obviously pandering to advertisers. The good ones -- Photo District News, MacWeek -- serve the reader and charge them accordingly. The advertising follows.
Gene Booth
Subj: Re:ethics & quotes 95-02-15 12:56:09 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
I never send questions out in advance. For one, I am simply not that organized. Secondly, I never know where an interview will lead and I don't want to be hemmed in by what I *thought* would be the direction of the conversation. When people ask for questions, I explain my interviewing style, and usually they back away from the request. Sometimes, though, I'll give them some sample quesions on the phone, which also seems to calm them down.
About checking quotes: I'd prefer the *context* of the quote read back to the source. Most of my interviews are on tape, so there's no need to confirm accuracy. The problem with reading back quotes is that people want to change them, which should never be allowed unless the quote was truly replayed or interpreted wrong. To my knowledge, most magazines don't read back the quote but confirm with the source its general context.
Jennifer
Subj: Re:ethics, sources & the assignm 95-02-15 12:56:25 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
DanylFL writes: <<The executives I interview sometimes ask to verify quotes and even ask for a question list before the interview. I usually let them, even the question list (snip) My problem though is I hate doing this. When I write for other magazines I don't. I'd like to know what all of you say when interviewees ask for something like this.>>
I never have a problem sending an interview source a list of questions, as long as they request this list in advance, say a day or two. As far as verifying quotes, I never do this, because people always want to change what they say. What I DO do is read back material to interview sources in the medical profession, because I often write on health topics and don't want to mislead the reader with inaccurate information.
Hope that helps.
leah
Subj: Re:ethics & quotes 95-02-15 13:02:36 EST
From: LeahIngram
Posted on: America Online
Citywoman writes:
<<I never send questions out in advance. For one, I am simply not that organized. Secondly, I never know where an interview will lead and I don't want to be hemmed in by what I *thought* would be the direction of the conversation.>>
I don't think sending a list of questions to an interview source binds what you can and cannot ask. I never only ask the questions on my list -- I often go off on tangents, and I find that because I've supplied my interview source with a list of questions and he/she knows I'm on the ball, they always answer my off the cuff questions as well.
Perhaps I misunderstood you....
Subj: Conde Nasty 95-02-15 13:56:46 EST
From: KellyWord
Posted on: America Online
I wanted to comment about the newspaper vs. magazine reporting. I had always prided myself on my years of newspaper reporting, but it was a surprise to realize how muhc strigent and formal magaizne reporting can be. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that, in newspapers, you are only wrong for one day. There's always tomorrow to fix things. With magazines, it's forever.
Another thing: I saw Conde Nast's chief of chiefs, Steve Florio, on The Charlie Rose Show the other night, and what he said about electronic publishing scared me. He says he knows the future is paperless magazines, and that in the next few years Conde Nast will concentrate on developing each magazine electronically. Considering that they already want to pay **nothing** for electronic rights, I take that as a very unhealthy sign for writers. Conde Nast knows it's getting quite a deal by asking writers to sign such a contract.
So, thanks, Leah, for your continuing news updates from ASJA!
Subj: Do I need an agent? 95-02-15 14:00:14 EST
From: KellyWord
Posted on: America Online
I just completed the first chapter of a book I'm co-authoring with a doctor. It's a medical book that will be used by laypeople and medical people. I am ready to call acquisitions editors at just three medical book publishers to see if they are interested.
Or do I? Or should I have an agent call? What is your experience?
Subj: Re:Stupid Question 95-02-15 14:30:35 EST
From: Xina
Posted on: America Online
Amoona,
First of all, it's not a stupid question. I'd say no, don't waste money and effort sending a second set of clips. What I usually do in this situation is, with my next proposal, remind them that you sent a bunch of clips last time, and, if they no longer have them, you'd be happy to send more.
My experience has been that if an editor likes your clips, he or she will hang onto them even if your first idea doesn't work out.
Xina
Subj: Becoming a contributing editor 95-02-15 14:36:42 EST
From: Xina
Posted on: America Online
I've been writing fairly regularly for a couple of national women's magazines, have been getting praise from my editors, and have even encountered a little possessiveness on their parts, which I love, of course.
However, being the ever-humble freelancer, I'mm too scared to pop the "Why-don't-you-put-me-on-the-masthead?" question.
Does anyone know what it generally takes to become a contributing editor at a major magazine--and what the deal (money and time-wise) is?
Thanks!
Subj: Re:Becoming a contributing edito 95-02-15 15:27:04 EST
From: Seym1814
Posted on: America Online
Xina--
I am a contributing writer to two national magazines--in both cases they simply asked me, and of course I said yes. It doesn't mean a retainer or anything like that, but it does mean, at least in these cases, a good, steady relationship. I believe I get better than average rates from both, and in the case of one am paid an extra "finder's fee" for every idea that I bring that turns into a story. On the other hand I know of friends who have gotten their names on mastheads and it has meant nothing at all, so apparently the interpretation differs from magazine to magazine. I'd be interested in hearing others' experiences myself.
---Liz
Subj: Taxes 95-02-15 18:05:12 EST
From: LLBliss
Posted on: America Online
Since so many of us use this medium to network, is our time here tax deductible? I've been keeping track of my computer usage hours and purpose but I haven't subdivided those hours between the difference areas of AOL I use. Any help would be appreciated.
Lynne
Subj: Re:Do I need an agent? 95-02-15 18:51:04 EST
From: SusanS29
Posted on: America Online
I don't think you should call the editors. In addition, if it's for both doctors and laypeople I think you'd be better off with more "mainstream" publishers.
Subj: Re:ethics, sources & the assignm 95-02-16 00:06:55 EST
From: Danyl FL
Posted on: America Online
Thanks everyone, especially Steve. As it turns out, you had it right. The editor wants me to fax a copy of the article to interviewee...then forget it. I'm real uncomfortable with that, especially since I'm suppose to take over as editor in a few months. I don't want to be stuck in a position where the subject becomes the editor. Hell, we ARE only writing puff pieces. It's not like it's real journalism, it's marketing.
What I'm worried about is when I write for real magazines, something I still do. I wanted to know how to tell a subject that I don't do that and still get an interview. All your comments help. Thank everybody.
Dan
Subj: Re:Taxes 95-02-16 00:40:14 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Yes, time on AOL, which can be considered professional research, is most certainly tax-deductible.
Subj: Re:ethics & quotes 95-02-16 00:43:02 EST
From: Citywoman
Posted on: America Online
Frankly, very few people have asked me to send questions in advance. In fact, only one source has made such a demand, and because she was so important to my story, I did. However when others hint around to the effect that they want to see some questions, I list some general ones over the phone and that seems to work quite well in helping them think about the answers before the actual interview.
Subj: Re:ethics & quotes 95-02-16 08:48:38 EST
From: Seym1814
Posted on: America Online
I use the same technique as Jennifer--give a general outline of the sorts of areas we'll be covering in the interview, but not a list of questions (I do, however, let a subject know if I'll be asking for figures or facts that he or she may need to look up ahead of time). I think it's only fair to the interview subject to give some idea of what to expect, and in some cases I've found that once we've talked about the scope of the interview the person passes me on to someone else who is better able to answer my questions. As to reviewing the finished piece: when I work for magazines that do fact-checking, I simply tell the interview subject that he or she will get a chance during the fact-checking process to review the the things we've discussed. That is generally enough to allay fears, and shifts the burden to the magazine to decide where the line lies.
--Liz
Subj: Re: Essays/Commentaries 95-02-16 10:14:06 EST
From: Elissapax
Posted on: America Online
SWhittles,
I'd like to know how you got started writing your essays/commentaries for papers. Were they local papers? Large city pubs? Did you send queries, or send them whole mss? On what kind of topics? Were they from an "expert" point of view, or just a general commentary/make you think kind of peice.
I'm considering getting into this area and would appreciate knowing how to go about things.
2/16/95 3:32:16 PM Closing Log file.
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