UFO message boards
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From: of@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Fibre Optics)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,sci.space,misc.misc
Subject: Re: INFO: Clandestine Mars Observer Launch??
Keywords: Follow-ups to alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <8032@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: 7 Jun 91 09:26:42 GMT
References: <1991May31.022927.35@bilver.uucp> <1991May31.215411.19074@nntp-server.caltech.edu> <1991Jun3.205520.9344@dg-rtp.dg.com> <1991Jun5.025507.22249@bilver.uucp>
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In <1991Jun5.025507.22249@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:
[etc deleted, *this* is what I want to followup]
>What the so-called scientific community has shown me so far is they
>are FAR from being "open minded". Rather, they are narrow and RIGID.
>
>This only applies to just a _few_ individuals thus far, but what they
>don't realize is that I relish poking fun at their most cherished "notions"
>and IF they have such a watertight argument..then let's see some discussion,
>I'm more than willing to LISTEN and consider *their* views..but I will
>NOT be censored by small-minded and inflexible people JUST BECAUSE
>their education has drummed into their heads that "things are a certain
>way" and they won't bother to consider alternate viewpoints.
How right you are ! More power to your elbow Don !
People like these `scientists' imprisoned Galileo.
The problem is idealism. They start with the preconception that the
world is a certain way and then only look at the evidence that agrees
with the preconception. Result being "see ? the world *is* like that !"
No learning or discovery is possible without decades of anguish this
way. Keep rattling their cages Don !
>
>Does this sound like a *challenge* to the "science-priestcraft"??
>
>You bet!
>
Its a challenge all right, they'll just have to not look at the
evidence. Again.
>Don
--
Peter Harris G4BDQ | Unusual exploding disclaimer -> (}|){//)
Fibre Optics *-----------------------------------------------------(--PAF !-)
Southampton University| "Relax in the safety of your own delusions" (/}|{\\)
of@ecs.soton.ac.uk | Kerry Wendell Thornley |||
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From: philipt@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Philip Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INFO: Crop Circles in Tennessee - John Komar/MUFON
Summary: Authentic crop circles outside the UK?
Keywords: Follow-ups to alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <5308@syma.sussex.ac.uk>
Date: 7 Jun 91 16:57:49 GMT
References: <1991May31.022201.29947@bilver.uucp> <6568@qip.UUCP>
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As someone who has been following the crop circles debate in the UK
over the last 11 years - when the first "modern" - geometrically
arranged set of circles - was recorded in the UK, I would be very
interested to hear about crop circle formations outside the UK.
Firstly - forget the UFO nonsense, that just complicates the issue. As
far as I am concerned there are 2 serious theories about :
1) They are "all fraud". Possible, but quite amazing if true given the
numbers now running into over a thousand in the last few years, many
only visible from the air.
2) Terence Meadan's "vortex" theory. This is an unconventional, but scientific
theory that should be treated seriously.
There is an on-going, intense investigation in the UK which is lacking in
information about similar crop circles outside this country.
So any pointers to authenticated (i.e. photographed when fresh, precise
location
and measurements) crop circles outside the UK would be a real step forward.
Philip Taylor
email : pbt%uk.ac.rgo.srf@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk (INTERNET)
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From: bill@vulture.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,sci.space,misc.misc
Subject: Re: INFO: Clandestine Mars Observer Launch??
Message-ID: <10006@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu>
Date: 7 Jun 91 17:03:03 GMT
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In article <1991Jun4.185703.19747@swbatl.sbc.com>, jburnes@swbatl.sbc.com
|> (Jim Burnes - 235-7444) writes:
|>
|> C'mon guys...I am not about to start a UFO bashing contest (partly
|> because something like that appears to exists), but there is a special
|> part of your brain that is dedicated to doing nothing but recognize
|> faces. Anything that has 2 "eyes", 1 "mouth" and is round will
Well, that's a new one on me. I wonder what part of the brain that is??
But, it's beside the point anyway.
|> be recognized as such. Really...if someone wanted to send us a
|> message why didnt they just encode it in symbology like we did
|> on voyager.
|>
Were the natives of Easter island trying to send us a message when they left
behind all those faces?? Were the Egyptians trying to send us a message when
they constructed the Sphynx??
Has the idea occured to anyone that IF (I said if!!) the face on Mars really
turns out to be a face carved by some form of inteligent life, it may not have
any meaning to us at all??? The next time you walk thru a cemetary with afluent
people from the last century buried in it, try and figure out what they are
trying to tell you with all those cute little statues that adorn their gravestones.
Or better still, visit any of a thousand historical sites here in the US. You
will find numerous statues of people you can't recognize. And if there is no one
around to tell you, you will never figure out what they are trying to say with
that artifact.
Maybe we should wait til we know if it is real or not before we try and figure
out what it means.
As for the symbology on Voyager. It is only going to be meaningful to another
humanoid with a basis in mathematics equivalent to us. None humanoids would
not recognize the two human figures and everything else would be meaningless
even to large portions of the population of this planet, much less to aliens.
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | If this statement wasn't here,
bill@platypus.uofs.edu | This space would be left intentionally blank
bill@tuatara.uofs.edu | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
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From: bill@vulture.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,sci.space,misc.misc
Subject: Re: INFO: Clandestine Mars Observer Launch??
Message-ID: <10007@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu>
Date: 7 Jun 91 17:30:04 GMT
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In article <chuck.676173229@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu>, chuck@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (charles bridgeland) writes:
|> indeed.
|> a big city, laid out in a nice rectangular grid, would signal the
|> presence of intelligent life just as well as a face, and be useful to boot.
Let's assume that some catastrophe killed off all the people living on earth (or
assuming we were further advanced, drove us out of this solar system.) Catastrohpes
of this magnatude do happen, remember the dinosaurs. How long after that do you
suppose our grand cities would continue to exist?? 1 century?? 2 centuries??
How long do you think Mount Rushmore or Stone Mountain (GA) would be there??
Assuming all other signs of inteligent life vanished, what cause would be given
for the, by then, badly eroded faces on the side of a mountain in that un-inhabited
northern hemisphere??
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | If this statement wasn't here,
bill@platypus.uofs.edu | This space would be left intentionally blank
bill@tuatara.uofs.edu | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
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From: andrea@chimera.mitre.org (Andrea Ostensoe)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Santanists
Message-ID: <1991Jun7.190952.7719@linus.mitre.org>
Date: 7 Jun 91 19:09:52 GMT
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Hey, an alien visitor! She sounds considerably friendlier than that
Zontar character. So tell us, chimera, are the ZETA GREYS really as
nasty as Dan Showen would have us believe? What's the REAL truth
about MJ-12 and the Federal Emergency Management Agency's COG plan?
What can you tell us about crop circles?
Weellll, since you DID ask. The ZETA GREYS are not invited to any of
the really fun parties. They have *NO* fashion sense at all and
no sense of humor! They are BORING, BORING, BORING. Since my
cover is working as a bimbo in a think tank in D.C., you realize
I cannot discuss MJ-12 and FEMA's COG plan, they really are
watching, you know. However, crop circles eess no problem.
o
The crop circles all started when someone at one of our more mind-altering
parties (no vat i mean dahling??) said let's hastle the earthlings. It
was a punk teenager like you have here but I can't divulge planet of
origin. He got out of hand, rounded up more of those crazy youngsters
and took off for earth. It has been horrible ever since, now all
this controversy, and everyone is suspicious, covers are being blown
from nerves. You know the rest.
you are right
Chimera is very friendly!
can we come and vist you some night? run a few experiements poke a
few needles? weell be very, very nice!
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From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Why would I stick a face on Mars...
Message-ID: <12903@uwm.edu>
Date: 7 Jun 91 21:51:28 GMT
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In article <cHc635w164w@cellar.UUCP> revpk@cellar.UUCP (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:
> But what I'd be testing for is this' if something looks like a face,
>does this mean that a face was designed into it?
But you can't even test that with Mount Rushmore this way if you don't know
where it came from?
The point of the test is that the neural net ALREADY is trained to rule out
random images from actual photographs with 99% accuracy. My claim is that
ANY such neural net, no matter how it was designed, trained/programmed when
applied to a photo of the Mars facial image will classify it as a face with
probability exceeding 99%.
You'd be hard pressed to find a random image that would fall between the
cracks then of such a classifier.
You can even use this as the basis for a set of parameters for randomness:
e.g. this image is 99%/99% a face ... that image is 99.9%/99.9% a face, and
so on ... meaning NOT random.
> I think it would amke far more sense to provide subjects with a
>series of patterns, some of which have faces 'designed' into them, and others
>which are truly random... and ask people if they see any faces. I expect that
>one would find a high correlation among the random images of where 'faces'
>could be seen. If people are recognizing faces in verifiably random patterns,
>then our seeing a 'face' on Mars doesn't constitute proof for design.
That's essentially the condition to the test I described: that the neural net
have 99% accuracy. You need a VALID classifier in order to do the test with,
humans may or may not qualify...
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From: andrea@chimera.mitre.org (Andrea Ostensoe)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,misc.misc
Subject: Re: INFO: Crop Circles in Tennessee - John Komar/MUFON
Keywords: Follow-ups to alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <1991Jun7.205545.11221@linus.mitre.org>
Date: 7 Jun 91 20:55:45 GMT
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I did it, me and my friends, I admit it!!! The hoax is over!! It was
an awful lot of fun, but it's getting out of hand.
chimera
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From: hzl11@isuvax.iastate.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: GIF
Message-ID: <1991Jun7.235221.24738@news.iastate.edu>
Date: 7 Jun 91 23:52:21 GMT
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If anyone outthere would be so kind to send me the Mars GIF file I'd greatly
apppreciate it.
Thanks...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Matt Wiggins HZL11@ccvax.iastate.edu | "Who are THEY? "-Unknown source |
|----------------------------------------| "Where in the Hell am I?"- Me '91 |
| Ever notice that the days are getting hotter and the bills are getting |
| higher, and you get less for your money? Maybe I'll run for President in |
| 1996. |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: hzl11@isuvax.iastate.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Gif
Message-ID: <1991Jun8.003402.25379@news.iastate.edu>
Date: 8 Jun 91 00:34:02 GMT
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Please Disregaurd my last message.
I have seen the 'FACE' picture before. Seeing it again I don't see
how anyone can say that it is just a natural thing. There is clearly
a sort of structure to it, Are you going to tell me that it was some kind
of left-over volcanic eruption? I think not. I've read the book and I think
that someone or something put it there, but I do not think that it was just
a natural effect (it looks too much like a human to be an accident of nature!)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Matt Wiggins HZL11@ccvax.iastate.edu | "Who are THEY? "-Unknown source |
|----------------------------------------| "Where in the Hell am I?"- Me '91 |
| Ever notice that the days are getting hotter and the bills are getting |
| higher, and you get less for your money? Maybe I'll run for President in |
| 1996. |
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From: woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Major Havok)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Mars face.
Message-ID: <1991Jun07.230922.18723@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Date: 7 Jun 91 23:09:22 GMT
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On the topic of the face on Mars... it seems unlikely that such a feature
would be created natuarally on such a (relatively) dead planet. Mars, as far
as I know, has virtually no atmosphere compared to the earth, so it doesn't
seem that there would be much errosion occuring on the surface of mars. I
don't know much about mars, so I don't know what the current volcanic
activity level is like on mars, but it seems that volcanic activity would
produce a much more random feature. Anyone have any thoughts on this???
--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
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From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,misc.misc
Subject: Re: INFO: Crop Circles in Tennessee - John Komar/MUFON
Keywords: Follow-ups to alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <12916@uwm.edu>
Date: 8 Jun 91 00:59:03 GMT
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In article <1991Jun7.205545.11221@linus.mitre.org> andrea@chimera.mitre.org (Andrea Ostensoe) writes:
>I did it, me and my friends, I admit it!!! The hoax is over!! It was
>an awful lot of fun, but it's getting out of hand.
I truly appreciate you taking the blame for me, but I just can't live with
myself knowing what severe retribution would fall on you. I am certain, in
fact, that the Ayahtollah (yes! He still lives!) will decree a death sentence
on you for your admission.
*I* put those Crop Circles there. In fact, I will tell you how I did so so
that you can even 'participate' in this elaborate ruse if you should desire.
By means, which I do not wish to divulge, I had previously obtained the use
of several military-grade stealth choppers (you know: the kind that won't
make a loud sound when their blades whirl).
In my home-based Neuro-controller laboratory, I developed the hardware and
training software for an elaborate air-gun controller. This controller,
initially, was only designed to execute motions tracing out perfect circles,
but as of late, I managed to get a hold of some reinforcement learning research
by a certain Richard E. Sutton of GTE (he can verify my literature request,
though he is in the dark as to why I truly requested it >:) ) that allowed me
to set up more elaborate training algorithms. Hence, recently you've started
seeing more complex diagrams being generated.
I take pride in stating that this air-gun controller was written using only 15
80C52 8-bit embedded controllers and an in-house 8-bit multiprocessing kernel
for each. I may post the kernel in a sources newsgroup in the near future.
Hey, '52s may only be 8-bit, but they get the job done, cheap and dirty!
The primary difficulty that required elaborate training was the problem of
compensation. You see, even the most skilled pilot will not keep a hovering
chopper still to the degree of precision *WE* required, so that the controller
would have to make momentary and continual adjustments to account for the
drifts that may occur. We needed an algorithm that had some ability to predict
an extrapolate future motion ... much like that ever-so-famous broomstick
balancing neural net controller.
The lights associated with the appearance of the Crop Circles ... well that
was the chopper over the field, of course! It didn't show up on radar (except,
I believe in one relatively obscure instance) primarily due to its stealth
nature.
Flying over a field of crops, our chopper pilot was directed simply hover over
the field (high enough up as not to create undesireable ground eddies), and
then enable the air gun controller. The air gun was able to shoot out a
sufficiently powerful jet of air to cause the crops in the field to bend
*EVEN* from the altitude the shopper was hovering at (I am not at liberty to
reveal any more details than that). Having its motion guided by the 8052
multi-microprocessor controller, it succeeeded in tracing out extremely
precise patterns in the field below, despite the chopper's continual drifting.
A pattern usually only took about 5 to 10 minutes to generate, and once
complete the pilot was directed to IMMEDIATELY ascend to a higher altitude and
leave the general area as quick as possible.
One of our more exasperating difficulties as of late has been in keeping
ahead of all these misguided fools who are constantly setting up these
damned cameras all over the place. I can't even begin to describe what we've
had to go through, just to scope out a "fresh" field to ensure that it be
free of these booby-traps. Because, as you know, once a camera captures the
event our game is history.
Personally, I don't really know how much longer we can pull it off ... our
surveillance is not flawless after all ... and I have some bets with my partners
that we probably won't even last the rest of the month of June without getting
captured on film.
As for "spilling the beans" ... well hell don't nobody ever believe nothing
that's said on any of these newsgroups nohow, so I don't think nothing of
telling you the whole story.
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