Childrens Writers Chat - YA novels

 Subject:  Childrens Writers Chat - YA nove

Author:  writerbabe

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Date:  1/29/1999

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Guest: Michael Cart

YA novels

Tuesdays 

9 p.m. ET (6 p.m. PT), Writers Workshop

Children's Writers chat - writers and illustrators of children's books meet for specific topics and special guest speakers, moderated by HOST WRTR WBABE & HOST WRTR CGaley, with HOST WRTR sUe & HOST WRTR Neely (Greeters).

Michael Cart

YA novels

1/26/99 childrens writers chat log

WriterBabe: We're going into protocol...

WriterBabe: Now!

WriterBabe: That means, when it's time for audience participation, type ? for a question,

WriterBabe: ! for a comment,

WriterBabe: and wait your turn in the queue to be called on.

WriterBabe: Type GA for Go Ahead (guests, too) when you've finished speaking.

WriterBabe: Tonight I'm delighted to welcome our guest, Michael Cart--reviewer, lecturer, novelist,

WriterBabe: critic, former librarian, and downright expert on young adult books.

WriterBabe: Hiya, Michael!

MrMCart: Hiya

WriterBabe: I'm going to plunge right in with a few questions of my own, then later open this chat to

WriterBabe: the audience.

WriterBabe: We've had a lot of discussions here about what are YA novels.

WriterBabe: For those who haven't read your excellent book, FROM ROMANCE TO REALISM,

WriterBabe: would you please give us your definition?

WriterBabe: How do YA's differ from middle-grades?

WriterBabe: From adult novels?

WriterBabe: GA

MrMCart: Technically, it's any novel published for readers aged 12-18. However, there are many coming

MrMCart: of age novels published for adults that are de facto YA novels. By the way, this is my first

MrMCart: time ever in a chat room so I may make some egregious blunders in trying to communicate. For

MrMCart: give me in advance.  GA

WriterBabe: If you can spell egregious, Michael, you won't be making many blunders.

WriterBabe: Okay, you mentioned de facto YA novels--CATCHER IN THE RYE;

WriterBabe: A SEPARATE PEACE; LORD OF THE FLIES, etc.

WriterBabe: Since many teens steer clear of books labeled YA, I'm going to play devil's advocate and ask

WriterBabe: why do teens need books published AS YA's?

WriterBabe: Why not have those YA's relevant to teens be published as adult books?

WriterBabe: GA

MrMCart: Because the young adult years are a unique period in emotional and psychosexual development 

MrMCart: and novels written specifically for these kids that speak to their minds and hearts are esse

MrMCart: essential.  GA

WriterBabe: What are some of the major themes of YA novels?  What themes, in your opinion, need to be

WriterBabe: addressed more?

WriterBabe: GA

MrMCart: Sexual experience, emotional maturation, living in at-risk times. As for what needs to be ad

MrMCart: addressed more: the gay and lesbian experience. GA

WriterBabe: It seems to me that if books truly addressed those things, they'd be true YA's, and not the

WriterBabe: middle-grade novels that masquerade these days as YA's.

WriterBabe: Would you agree with that?  GA

MrMCart: Yes and no. Four years ago, YA was in the process of becoming middle school fiction. That ha

MrMCart: has changed dramatically in the last 2 years and we're seeing more and more cutting edge YA 

MrMCart: fiction being published for older teens -- i.e., 16 and up. GA

WriterBabe: Do you feel that these darker, edgier books have received a good response from teens?

WriterBabe: What counter-reaction, if any, have you seen to these?  GA

MrMCart: I haven't seen a counter-reaction yet, tho. I know some kids who participate in various list

MrMCart: serves have said that they prefer lighter, cheerier fare. However, I think the fact that kid

MrMCart: kids are more sophisticated today and so many are leading lives at risk that there is a much

MrMCart: greater receptivity to "dark" material today than, say, at the end of the '70s when the pend

MrMCart: ulum swung back in the direction of romance and series paperback fiction. GA

WriterBabe: So, how do you feel about Roger Sutton's remarks in the HORN BOOK about "grim" books?  He

WriterBabe: said:  "We may find that some young readers will appreciate the honesty with which these

WriterBabe: writers confront the dark.  We may also find that some young readers still prefer a novel

WriterBabe: that puts the lights on in the end, even if they have to bring their own lightbulbs."

WriterBabe: GA

MrMCart: I don't disagree at all. However, I think that we owe kids the truth and the sad fact is tha

MrMCart: t not all lives do have lights at the end. I once wrote that Robert Cormier took his young r

MrMCart: readers into the heart of darkness for the first time and turned the lights on there to show

MrMCart: them what it looked like. We still need Bob Cormier today. Happily, tho., YA publishing itse

Poetman1a3: hello all

MrMCart: el is in a period of expansion and there is an ample sufficiency of lighter, less grim fare 

MrMCart: for those who prefer that. GA

WriterBabe: Great comments, Michael.  I'm going to open this to the audience in a moment.  But before I

WriterBabe: do, I want to say that I'm glad to hear the latter.  I've been feeling that comedies are an

WriterBabe: endangered species.

WriterBabe: Are people actually writing YA comedies these days?  Do kids respond to them?  Are these

WriterBabe: books taken seriously by reviewers?  GA

MrMCart: Yes, people are. I think of Joan Bauer and Ron Koertge and Rob Thomas and many others who ar

MrMCart: are writing wonderfully artful humor. YA and humor are no longer an oxymoron (my next to las

MrMCart: last Booklist column was about humorous YA fcition) GA

WriterBabe: You've just mentioned three terrific writers, and I'm glad to hear that humor is on the

WriterBabe: rise.

WriterBabe: And now, folks, it's time for audience participation.

WriterBabe: Type those ? and !

MR BILL141: !

WriterBabe: Becky, go ahead.

MR BILL141: I work in the children's room of the town library, where all our YAs are shelved.  The

MR BILL141: problem we find is that when kids reach 8th grade they are going to the adult room, and

MR BILL141: there's just no room in our library to move the books there.  High school reading lists are

MR BILL141: all adult books, which is a shame because they're missing out on some good stuff.  I think

MR BILL141: this is a universal problem in public libraries.  Any suggestions?

WriterBabe: (A good question, Becky!)

MrMCart: You raise two problems: as for the reading lists, NCTE has a YA group that is trying to expl

MrMCart: explode the "canon" (I'm talking about ALAN which has a number of English teachers who are t

WriterBabe: (Type ? and !, folks)

MrMCart: trying to bring more YA ficiton into the classroom.  In your library if you can't move the Y

MrMCart: YA books, then can you let the teens continue to have access to the collection? GA

MR BILL141: ! follow up

WriterBabe: Becky, you can answer that.

MR BILL141: The problem is that the teens won't be caught dead in the children's room.

Nancegar: !

PritchWitt: ?

MrMCart: I know that -- what about interfiling the YA books with the adult materials, then, and marki

MrMCart: marking catalog entries with a YA designation (and marking the books with a YA designation o

MrMCart: on the spine? GA

MR BILL141: Interesting idea, but no room. GA

WriterBabe: That's difficult, Becky.

WriterBabe: Michael, do you have any other suggestions?

MrMCart: Hmmmm: sounds like you need a bigger library. It's hard to address your particular situation

MR BILL141: (Other local libraries have the same problem--I suspect it's universal)

MrMCart: since I'm not familiar with your library. But send me an e-mail at your convenience and we 

MrMCart: can puruse this further. GA

SheNicki: !-Becky

MR BILL141: Thanks.

WriterBabe: Nicki, I'm gonna let you make a comment, then go to Nancy and Ellen.

SheNicki: Our local library is using the spiral stands to hold some YA books in the Adult section.

MR BILL141: Actually, they tried it for a while but no one used it.

WriterBabe: Oh, dear.  Well, this might make a good brainstorming session at another chat.

MR BILL141: It's just not "cool" to read "kid" books.

WriterBabe: Nancy, your turn.

Nancegar: Becky, can you create a YA alcove in the chil's rm,or adult room, separated by a curtain or 

Nancegar: screen?  I know we should move on, but this is such a problem! GA

WriterBabe: We can stick with this, if folks want to discuss it.

WriterBabe: Becky, can your library do that?

MaryP2000: !  

MR BILL141: Possibly.  The problem remains that it would be in the CHILDREN's room.

MR BILL141: I think the root of it is the school lists that exclude YAs.

MR BILL141: They seem to encourage kids to go to the adult room.

WriterBabe: Michael, how can we get schools to include more YA's on the lists?

MR BILL141: (I'd be interested in obtaining that list you mentioned)

MrMCart: Seevral ways: I'm on the Board of ALAN and we're working on this. Also, I do seminars in YA 

MrMCart: lit to secondary teachers all over the country and am spreading the gospel there. However, 

MrMCart: this kind of thing may be best addressed at the grass roots level. We need to find ways to 

MrMCart: reach out to schools and encourage teachers to use YA lit. GA

WriterBabe: Thanks, and that's good news!  Mary, is your comment on libraries?

MR BILL141: Thanks.

MaryP2000: I think Michael's suggestion to file YA with adult books is marvelous!  Should publishers 

MaryP2000: push for this? GA

WriterBabe: Michael, CAN publishers push for it?

JanssD: !

Nancegar: !

MrMCart: I think in a way they are, since more publishers seem to be cross-marketing YAs these days. 

MrMCart: Also bookstores, are cuatiously interested in interfiling YA and adult. GA

WriterBabe: Ellen, I promise we'll get to your question, but I'd like to let this discussion play out a

WriterBabe: bit more.

WriterBabe: So, Derek, go ahead.

WriterBabe: (Please have your comments and questions ready to send)

WriterBabe: Derek?

Nancegar: Correction-?

LynWriteBk: ?

WriterBabe: Then, Nancy, go ahead.

JanssD: waitasec

JanssD: I think it's the cross-marketing that's HURT YA's by bringing in the style-marketing and

JanssD: promotion that lags down adult books--To find readers, YA's still have to suggest they

JanssD: have teens' interests, not Random House's.

WriterBabe: That's an interesting perspective.  Michael, do you agree?

MrMCart: I don

JanssD: A good YA compliments children's book's everywhere.

MrMCart: 't think it's hurt YA at all, since it increases the market and makes it more economically f

MrMCart: feasible to publish YA. GA

JanssD: What about artistically?

JanssD: ga

MrMCart: Artisically, too, since it expands thematic possibilities and offers a richer, broader field

MrMCart: for creativity. GA

WriterBabe: Ellen, it's your turn.

PritchWitt: If there are no sexual subjects that are any longer taboo for YAs

PritchWitt: and the novels are no longer necessarily  hopeful at the end

PritchWitt: what really differentiates YAs from adult books?  Length?

PritchWitt: Marketing? GA

WriterBabe: (Good question!)

MrMCart: Length, age of protagonist and, yes, marketing! GA

KSzaj1107: ?

WriterBabe: How about style, Michael?

PritchWitt: But lots of adult books are short these days and many protagonists are young, so that leaves

PritchWitt: marketing.

PritchWitt: GA

MrMCart: As Pres. Clinton would say, how do you define style? GA

WriterBabe: As Pres. Clinton would also say, I know it when I see it.

WriterBabe: LOL

MaryP2000: (LOL)

BOEDEN: LOL

WriterBabe: I think there are stylistic differences between YA's and adult books, but it would take all

WriterBabe: night to distinguish them because we'd have to do it by example.

WriterBabe: And by that, I mean, sentence and paragraph structure, vocabulary, tone especially, etc.

WriterBabe: I don't think the age of the protagonist determines whether or not the book is a YA or an

WriterBabe: adult novel.

WriterBabe: If it did, Gunter Grass's THE TIN DRUM would be a kids' book!

WriterBabe: Whoops.  Didn't mean to run at the mouth there.

Nancegar: ?

JanssD: !

WriterBabe: Do you agree with me, though, Michael?

MrMCart: As for age: a kid may be the protagonist of an adult novel but an adult 

MrMCart: will never be the protagonist of a YA (well, almost never) GA

Neely f: ^*^^*^*^*^12 MINUTE WARNING  *^*^*^*

WriterBabe: I agree with you, Michael.

WriterBabe: Lyn, go ahead (I'm going to take everyone in order now).

LynWriteBk: Are there YA books that are somewhere between dark and comedic, that have

LynWriteBk: realistic posive solutions to dark problems, and are pubrs looking for them? GA

LynWriteBk: positive

LynWriteBk: GA

MrMCart: How about Whirligig by Pasul Fleischman or Rules of the Road by Joan Bauer? GA

WriterBabe: I think Rob Thomas's SLAVE DAY, too.

WriterBabe: Yes, Michael?

MrMCart: Yes. And publishers are definitely looking for them GA

WriterBabe: KS, your turn.

LynWriteBk: Thanks

KSzaj1107: Many YA's are written in 1'st person POV.  How important is that for today's YA audience? GA

MrMCart: Still important. Traditionally ist eprson has been a hallmark of YA and as long as teens are

MrMCart: solipsistic (like me!), 1st person will continue to prevail. GA

WriterBabe: Nancy, you're on.

Nancegar: You mentioned a need for gay/lesbian-themed YAs. For a while, there were a few   such novels

Neely f: %&%&%& 7 MINUTE WARNING %&%&%

Nancegar: each year - this year, virtually none.  Any ideas why?

KSzaj1107: (Thanks!)

Nancegar: GA

MrMCart: I'm not sure, Nancy. I suspect that there is some self-censorship still going on. GA

WriterBabe: That's depressing, Michael and Nancy.

WriterBabe: Derek, go ahead.

JanssD: Probably because lesbian/gays tend to push the limits of "I'm right" characters,

Nancegar: (Thank you, Michael)

JanssD: which drags down the style of YA characterization--Editors tire of it quickly.

Nancegar: ?

JanssD: When an alternative author has something new to say, TO TEENS, it'll spark again.

WriterBabe: You need to read some other gay/lesbian books then, Derek.  There are many that are not like

WriterBabe: that at all.

WriterBabe: Michael, care to respond to Derek?

MrMCart: I'm not sure I understand the observation about "I'm right" characters? GA

JanssD: Supporting characters tend to be *too* repressive (like that doesn't happen enough in YA)

WriterBabe: We've been talking a lot about realistic YA's.  I'm interested in the popularity of Philip

MrMCart: I'm sorry, I'm still not getting it. All I know is that there are far too few homosexual fac

WriterBabe: Pullman's "Dark Materials" Trilogy.

Neely f: !@!@!!~~~ 2 MINUTE WARNING ~~~!!@!!@!!

WriterBabe: Whoops--sorry.

MrMCart: es in YA. GA

WriterBabe: Michael, re:  Pullman's trilogy.  What hunger, need, interest in teens does this signify?

WriterBabe: GA

MrMCart: The hunger to expand the imagination! GA

WriterBabe: Ha!

WriterBabe: I think it's more than that.

WriterBabe: But we'll leave it there.

WriterBabe: Michael, do you have any final remarks for us?

MrMCart: OK GA

Neely f: ^^^^^^^^  10 O'Clock and all is well!   ^^^^^^

MrMCart: Only to tell folks that the Young Adult Lib Svcs ASsoc. is in the process

MrMCart: of creating a new YA award GA

Nancegar: !

WriterBabe: That's great!

WriterBabe: Nancy, last comment.

Nancegar: YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WriterBabe: LOL!

WriterBabe: Michael, thank you so much for being a terrific guest!

WriterBabe: Big applause, folks!

MaryP2000: That is great news!

BOEDEN: MrMCart, Thank you very much for information. Marilyn, staff, as usual, terrific job, thanks

MR BILL141: Thanks so much--sorry I monopolized the beginning of the chat!

SheNicki: {}{}{}{}Clap, Clap, Clap.  Thanks, Michael & you too, Marilyn.  Night!!

MaryP2000: Thank you, Michael!

Nancegar: Thank you so much, Michael --great chat!

Swan522: Thanks for the insights, Michael

Lizbooks: You were both wonderful!  Thanks!

Neely f: Thank you, Michael!

Neely f: ()()()(clapping )()()()(

WriterBabe: We hope you'll come back again, as a guest, and as an attendee.

MaryP2000: Thanks Marilyn and Donna!  WONDERFUL chat!

RobinOnAir: Thank You, Michael.  It was interesting and thought provoking

Neely f: You're welcome, Mary.  :)

KSzaj1107: Would love to hear more on YA's--please come back, Michael.

MrMCart: Thanks to all. 

WriterBabe: Next week, Open Chat!   Two weeks from tonight, our guest will be Newbery winner Sharon

WriterBabe: Creech.

WriterBabe: Night, everyone!

1/26/99 7:25:02 PM Closing "Chat Log 1/26/99"