Budd Hopkins interview on UFOs

 [Here begins the formal CO with Budd Hopkins on May 22, 1988 Live from New

York City]

User  User ID       Nod  Name 

---- -------------  ---  -------------------

  1   76703,266     CSG  Georgia

  2   71450,3504    LIU  DBC

  3   70000,1034    ACM  mgh

  4   70511,17      CRZ  Mike

  5   73710,3240    NWD  Dreadstar

  6   76701,11      NYY  Budd

  7   71330,1520    AAK  John Craig

  8   76650,1021    TTO  T. Mickus

  9   71777,1116    CNC  OTTO

 10   76067,3777    NYY  Ted

 11   74270,3360    BOI  Don Ecker

 12   76164,3262    SFG  CHRISTOPHER YOUNG

 13   72047,2261    NYJ  Neil P. Frank

 14   70446,622     TTO  ROGER

 15   71641,1204    MDN  Gordon

 16   72337,2717    ORL  Mike Hooper

 17   72135,424     PNX  Jim Speiser

 18   73230,2604    WPM  Joe Berger

 19   72200,254     HVN  Trep

 20   76210,1244    BOL  Jim

 21   73405,1357    PNX  Jim

 22   76117,1143    MRT  Ed H

 23   73240,1657    PRV  matt

 24   71605,2013    MTC  Gerry Zeitlin

 25   72017,1736    NNM  Larry Ledlow

 26   76407,2302    DFL  ralph hoagland

 27   71431,22      FTL  STEVE

 29   71350,1353    LIN  GREG

 30   75170,354     HVT  Joe

 31   75340,2642    TSA  Marge Christensen

(DBC) Is that G-wiz there?

(Georgia) yup i'm being formal.GA

(DBC) Looking forward to the session tonight.ga

(Charles)  hi.  Budd will be joining us shortly.

(Georgia)  Hi ya c h a r l e s!

(Charles)  Hi Georgia! How's it going?

(DBC)  Hi Charles. DBC in Port Jefferson tonight.ga

(Charles)  DBC ... in LI, eh?

(DBC)  Charles, how was dinner?ga

(Charles)  DBC ... just great! We'll chat about it later.

(Ted M) Hi Budd

(Budd)  Hello now

(John Craig) Hello from Alaska

(T. Mickus) Hello From Canada..

(Georgia)  hi!

(mgh) hello from Columbus

(DBC)  Real international tonight.ga

(Dreadstar)  hello from New York city, in other words Gotham

(John Craig) Has anyone else sent questionnaire into OMNI?

(CHRISTOPHER YOUNG) I HAVE

(John Craig) From Alaska, are you with us yet Nebraska?

(DBC)  Is that Neil P of the Ontario Triangle? ga

(CHRISTOPHER YOUNG) Any abductees here?

(John Craig) Alaska to Nebraska, you with us?

(ROGER)] HI FROM TORONTO

(OTTO) Charlotte NC

(Neil P. Frank) I'm in N.Y.

(John Craig) Eagle River, Alaska

(CHRISTOPHER YOUNG) San Francisco

(T. Mickus)  Well it looks like we're getting good representation 

             from Ontario!

(Mike) SANTA CRUZ, CALIFORNIA

(Ted) Hi from New York

(Gordon) NEW YORK

(Joe Berger) West Palm Beach, FL

(Mike Hooper) Orlando, FL

(Georgia)  here we go!

% Conference has begun

(Georgia)  Welcome to all!  This is a moderated conference. During the 

           interview you will be unable to interrupt.  When the 

           question-and-answer period is announced, if you have a question, 

           please type recognized and each person will be notified that

           he/she is next.  Each person will be allowed one question and one 

   follow-up until all have had an opportunity to speak.  If time 

   permits, we'll do a second round of questions.  To see how many

   questions are ahead of yours, type /look Try not to enter more 

   than 50 or 60 characters on  a line at a time, and limit your 

   questions to only a few lines.

  

           Ted Markley, who is in charge of the paranormal issues section of 

   Issues Forum, will conduct the interview and moderate the 

           discussion.  Ted is an electrical/electronics engineer who has 

   been involved in the design of industrial computers and laser

   systems;  he is now a VP at his company.

 

   Ted, go ahead.

(Ted) Ok. Tonight's guest, Budd Hopkins, is one of the most respected UFO 

Investigators in the filed today.  He has written two books appeared 

on numerous television talk shows and given talks at conferences 

across the USA. His most recent book, "Intruders" is soon to be made 

into a major motion picture.  I'm sure you all want to hear (read) 

more from Budd himself sooooo......

Budd how is the movie coming? GA

(Budd)  With the strike of writers, everything is on hold.  But we're hopeful.

(Ted got dropped momentarily!)

(Ted) Ok. Budd before we open the floor I have a few questions. For the

benefit of those who are not familiar with the Abduction Phenomenon

would you relate to us the "Typical abduction Scenario." GA

(Budd)  Typically he person unfortunate to be 'selected' is picked up a as a 

child, somewhere between the ages of two or three and six.  At that 

a cell sampling operation takes place. The child returns with one of 

two kinds of wounds - either a small, scoop-type of wound or a thin, 

scalpal like cut. The memory is usually blocked, so the child

remembers very little consciously. Then that same child is picked up 

repeatedly, particularly after puberty.  At some point a small 

implant seems to be put in place, via a thin needle which inserts it 

either up the nostril, in the ear, or beneath the eye ball in the eye

socket.  We have never yet recovered one of these implants, which are

roughly 2 millimeters in diameter.  This is howe it all starts. There

is much more, I'll go into later.

(Ted) Ok. Budd, with the success of "Missing TIme" and :INtruders" do you 

have another book in the works? ga

(Budd)  Yes.  My book, tentatively titled "aftermath" has do do with (Sorry 

for the George Bush-type slip) My book has to do with the inroads 

these abduction experiences make in the abductee's life and

psychological stability.  It will not deal centrally with the content

of UFO abductions.

(Ted) Ok. It has been said that the more public exposure that Phil Kl ass 

gets the better it is for the UFO cause.  Can you comment?

(Budd)  I don't agree.  Though he does come across as the UFO community's 

equivalent of Lyndon LaRouche, we need open minded inquirers, not 

hardened, ossified ideologies. I had an interesting conversation 

recently with Carl Sagan. He seemed reasonable, interested, and 

gentlemanly, possessing three qualities PK obviously lacks.  When I 

described some of PK's outrageous behavior and referred to him as 

'your man Klass' Sagan said, "he's not my man."  I was relieved.

(Ted) One last question before I open the floor. What can those at this 

conference do to help solve and/or stop the UFO abductions? GA

(Budd)  First we genuinely need every able-bodied, open-minded psychologist 

to recognize this phenomenon as a national problem.  They must look

into this material and lend their expertise to the investigation, 

whatever their preconceptions. Second, we must eliminate the air of 

ridicule which surrounds this subject,so that innocent, traumatized 

people can be helped rather than injured anew. And last, we must 

join together scientists,investigators, UFO researchers and others in

a joint effort to solve the mystery, rather than arguing, carping at

one another, and standing at the sidelines idly theorizing.

(Ted) Ok. Great!  I think it is time to open the floor to ?s If you want to 

ask a question get in line by typing /q ga

% Moderator recognizes queue #1

  John Craig <7>

(Ted) Ok John go ahead

(John Craig) Thanks, . Budd, because of all the publicity, have you been

swamped with letters? And has this led to any kind of statistical

analysis of the potential number of abductees?

(Budd)  I have been truly swamped.  I may have as many as 700 letters at home

I have not yet read.  From the hundreds I've already read, and the 

analysis that's been done on the OMNI letter the abduction phenomenon

is very widespread.  I would say that perhaps 75% of the "Intruders"

letters demand a look as possible abductions, and perhaps twenty % of

the OMNI letters. We're speaking about thousands of letters in these

two categories.

(Ted) ok John any follow up?

(John Craig) Thanks, Budd.  I sent one of those long ones in, and am anxious 

to find out whatever I can on the whole subject.

(Budd)  John, my apologies for not having answered.  I have no funding, and 

when I get my first royalty check on the paperback book sales, July 

1, I'm going to hire someone to help me deal with the correspondence.

Meanwhile I'm too busy in the emergency room, as it were, working 

with new people, TO TRY TO KEEP up

(Ted) next

% Moderator recognizes queue #2

  DBC <2>

(Georgia)  DBC.

(DBC)  Budd, I understand from George and Shirley Coyne (co-state directors 

of MUFON in Michigan; I believe you know them) that since January 19 

of this year abductees in the MI area have begun to experience 

something quite strange. Women began to have out-of cycle menstrual 

periods, and began to lactate. They also acquired new pin marks on 

their thighs and experienced nose bleeds. Can you tell us if this has

happened nationally/internationally and what do you feel is the 

significance?ga

(Budd) So far as I know it has not occurred on any large scale. However, 

problems of lactation, menstrual problems and so on are endemic to 

the abduction of women. ga

(Ted) any follow DBC?

(DBC)  I have one other question. I know you have been in close contact with 

things going on in Gulf Breeze, FL, and I've seen some of the

incredible UFO photographs taken by "Mr Ed". I also understand GB is

now heavily bracketed by military/government radars. Can you give us

your assessment of what is going on there and why "Mr Ed" has 

apparently been selected to make these photographs?ga

(Budd)  I have spent quite a lot of time in GB, and this is my position: It 

may be a hoax, as any UFO case may be a hoax.  It may be entirely 

truthful.  I have seen not a shred of evidence indicating a hoax.  

Not a shred!  Many hallmark UFO cases from Arnold  to Hill to 

Pascagoula to Kathie Davis and so on have advanced our knowledge of 

the UFO phenomenon.  It is an ongoing, unfolding situation, and GB 

may be a truly hallmark case like these others.  Maccabee, myself, 

Andrus and five local investigators have yet to see any evidence 

indicating a hoax.

% Moderator recognizes queue #3

  Don Ecker <11>

(Budd)  Two local investigators, Boyd and Willy Smith claim to see suspicious

signs.  None of the others so far involved have either been there or

worked from the original polaroids.  We must all draw a deep breath,

hold our tongues, and let the investigation proceed.   We may be at

        a true watershed, and it behooves all of us, at the least, not to

add a potential slander suit to the problems we already have.

(Ted) In order that we get through each person once we will dispense with

the follow up.  Ok don ga

(Don Ecker) Hello Bud, for the last several months I have been researching a 

paper for MUFON, and  the Paranet system on the hostile aspects of

the Phenomemon.  For over 40 years there have been case after case of

deaths, injuries etc. that for the most part have been ignored.  

Several months ago when the Lear hypothesis first broke, many people 

immediately laughed it off however some of what he proposed seem to 

be born out by your research into this subject.  First, do you 

believe that these entities, what ever they are are hostile or just 

proceed much like a scientist in the wild would when tagging an 

animal, and next do you believe that like Lear projected, these 

abductees might be programmed to proceed on a "mission" for the want 

of a better word at some point in the future?  And last, what do you

really believe in the "crossbreeding" experiments that would appear 

to be happening?  ga

(Budd)  Big questions, Don.  First I don't see clear evidence of actual 

hostility. I've written a paper expressing my views which was 

published in IUR a few issues back, entitled "What they are doing to 

us." I won't reprise it here.  Second, the Lear hypothesis is a mix, 

as John admits,  of surmise, fact and rumor.  We all know the aliens 

can be deceptive, and we know about our government's truthfulness.  

So when we, or you, or John put it all together  we have two cans of 

worms rather than one. It's best to proceed one foot in front of the 

other, trying to withstand the pressures to hypothesize, and trying

to steer between Space Brothers wooly-headedness and body-snatchers 

paranoia.  After all these years they could have done horrible things

to us if they wanted do.  Apart from foisting Ed Meese upon us, I 

haven't seen evidence of true malevolence.  As to their purpose of 

the hybridization plan, I have no idea of its final purpose.  

Something in me believes they are actually envious of us, of our 

beautiful planet, of our rich humanness.  I think they want to

observe and understand our maternal and paternal feelings, our simple

human diversity. I think they've possibly come to steal our DNA, but 

also to learn from us.  To turn a lot of New Age mythology and 

wishful thinking around, we may inadvertently and involuntarily be 

their "spirit guides."ga

% Moderator recognizes queue #5

  ROGER <14>

(Ted) Please keep your questions short so we can get to everyone. NEXT

(ROGER) hello Mr. Hopkins.  do you know of any solid evidence of the

government having alien beings in their possession, as there have 

been reported crashes in the past. ga

(Budd)  When next Bill Moore or Len Stringfield appear, best ask them. I stay

conservatively fixed in my area of expertise, never to wander.ga

% Moderator recognizes queue #7

  Jim Speiser <17>

(Ted) ga Jim

(Jim Speiser) Hello, Budd...An article in a recent Skeptical Inquirer by 

Dr. Robert Baker mentioned a phenomenon known as  Fantasy-Prone 

Personalities as a possible (or to him, almost certain) explanation 

for the abduction syndrome. It was Baker's assertion that this

aberrationvhad not been isolated out of the testing done by Dr. 

Slater, et.al.  any comment?

(Budd)  Over the years we've had the complex circumstances of sightings,

abduction accounts, missing time, radar reports and on and on. And 

then we've had the theories.  Plasmas, ghost lights, birth traumas, 

earthquake pressures., and so on. The theories have never met and 

accounted for the circumstances. Theorists sit at home, cranking out 

ideas, without ever meeting the witnesses, interviewing the 

abductees, and so on. An easy job.  I've hypnotized so far two 

psychiatrists, three psychologists, and about ten psychotherapists - 

all abductees, all supportive of my work.  I've worked with some of

the most important people in the field of psychology, all of whom 

have met, or hypnotized, or otherwise dealt with some of my abductee 

subjects.  All are willing to admit that no psychological explanation

of these events has yet surfaced. I'm sure some cases can be 

explained by swarming bees, fantasy-prone individuals and maybe even 

a Klassic plasma or two, but the mystery remains, undaunted.  If 

Baker wants to help, let him leave his typewriter and pipe at home 

and come join the investigation.  I can give him plenty to do.

(Ted) Next

% Moderator recognizes queue #8

  Marge Christensen <31>

(Marge Christensen) Budd, do you have reports of biological sample as Dave 

Jacobs has? ga

(Budd)  Hi, Marge.  Are you still cheating on your husband?

(ONLY KIDDING!)  HAVE NO WILL POWER.  I cannot resist.  You're too

kiddable! The question about samples - yes, a few things have turned 

up - stains in particular.  I'll be adding some material to Dave's

samples. ga

% Moderator recognizes queue #9

  Jim <20>

(Jim) Budd, I am personally acquainted with a 29 yr old NJ woman who follows

the abduction scenario - traumatize from a "missing time" event early

in her childhood.  The event left three triangular marks on her arm, 

a vague recollection of being aloft during the episode, a police 

search while she was held captive, and even weirdly mottled soil 

nearby. What can be done to help her?

(Budd)  Jim, I wish I could help. If she's in the NY area please contact me, 

as I'm listed. If she's not nearby, perhaps I can find someone close 

by. Where is she living now?

(Ted) ok want to answer that?

(Jim) Cambridge, MA

% Moderator recognizes queue #10

  Tom Mickus <8>

(Tom Mickus) Me?

(Ted) Yes tom ga

(Tom Mickus) Ok. Budd, in "Intruders" and in the CBC program entitled "The 

ET Hypothesis" you made mention of "Alien Writings" which certain 

people had received as a result of their encounters. Do you have 

anything NEW to add as to their content or form,  such as what style 

of print were they in and connected to that.  At the conclusion of 

the CBC program you related the story of how one elderly devout 

Catholic Man had himself encountered Aliens in  a Park during his 

life. From your viewpoint what do you see as the major societal 

implications of "CONTACT" finally being made and brought out into 

the open. What do you think its effect will be on the Major Religions

of the World. Thanks  GA

(Budd)  As to the symbols,I've received several more related examples. It's a

matter I'm still keeping confidential, as a way of verifying new 

cases, so I won't describe anything.  I really don't know what overt,

open contact might mean to the worlds religions.  I can't imagine 

that some degree of panic wouldn't occur if such a thing were made 

public.  Our economy is based on the idea of long-term stability - 20

year mortgages, saving for college education, etc., so this kind of 

wild card would have to be disruptive.  I'm an optimist, though, and 

hope we could survive.  The biggest problem might be that we and an 

alien culture might truly be unable to understand one another.  If we

have the trouble we seem to have getting along with Asians or 

Africans, how much might this stain our flexibility?ga

% Moderator recognizes queue #11

  mgh <3>

(mgh) Budd--regarding the pattern for 1st abductions I understand that this 

initial contact generally occurs between the ages of 2 and 6. 

However, have you found most abductees' initial ex And have you 

indeed found any very young subjects? hold on I understand that this 

initial contact generally occurs between the ages of 2 and 6. 

However, have you found most abductees' initial experiences to have 

been roughly extemoporaneous? If not, how long do you suppose this 

has been going on? And have you indeed located any young subjects? ga

(Budd)  I have reason to believe that some infants have been abducted in 

their first year of life.  The oldest abduction reports I've received

- probable abductions - occurred in 1929.  I have quite a few from 

the 30's and many from the forties.  The pattern is similar to that 

of sighting reports in frequency.ga

(Ted) It is getting late we only have time for one or two more. Next

% Moderator recognizes queue #13

  Larry Ledlow <25>

(Larry Ledlow) Hello, Budd. Do abductions occur beyond the prime "fertile" 

years? And have fathers of crossbred children seen their children as

have some mothers? ga

(Budd)  Good question.  Yes, sometimes, but these seem to be rarer.  Lots of 

the data we have is hard to sort out, but these late abductions do 

occur.ga

% Moderator recognizes queue #15

  CHRISTOPHER YOUNG <12>

(CHRISTOPHER YOUNG) Hi Budd! Just finished reading "DIMENSIONS" by Vallee

any opinion?

(Budd)  I haven't read it yet.  I found "Messengers of Deception" almost

impossible to plow though - all paranoid tone and no hard substance. 

Unfortunately Vallee, an important researcher in the 60's, has become

a kind of gallic John Keel. 

As to the last question by L. Ledlow:  I have two cases where 

"fathers" of hybrid children report seeing their offspring.  As 

Lowell Thomas used to say, thank you and good night. ga

(Georgia)  ok folks, I am going to close but then Ted has a final comment. 

Thank you!

(Ted) I want to thank budd for this evening. It has been OUT OF THIS WORLD! 

      Nite All!

% The conference has ended

  Thank you for attending

(Barak Sommer) thank you budd

(Georgia) Thanks Budd.

(DBC) Many thanks Budd.

(Don Ecker) I feel like I been to a Chinese Rest.....two hours later.   Nite

(lf)Thanks Budd

(Tom Mickus) Yes, THANK YOU...

(John Craig) Thanks, Budd

(Jim Speiser) Thanks, Budd! And Marge says she only cheats with aliens.

(CHRISTOPHER YOUNG) Be writing you soon with some stuff, Thanks Budd

(mgh) Thanks,, Budd

(Tom Mickus) Budd, feel free to join the Paranormal CO anytime in the future...

(Budd) Many thanks to you for the sharp questions.  See you all I hope in 

Nebraska at the MUFON conference.

(John Craig) I'm headed to Nebraska, when and where's the MUFON conf?

(Barak Sommer)  fascinating

(Jim Speiser) John -- Lincoln, June 24th thru 26th, at U of N.

(John Craig) Thanks! I'll be there!

(Barak Sommer)  Me as well

(Jim Speiser) For MUFON Symposium information, write to...

              MUFON, 103 Oldtowne Rd., Seguin, TX, 78155.

Conference Logging Terminated:  22:10:26 EDT

Conference Logging Duration:    02:37:47