FutureCulture Digest #371
From ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu Mon Apr 19 22:48:34 1993
Return-Path: <ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu>
Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by ccu.UManitoba.CA
(4.1/25-eef) id AA25589; Mon, 19 Apr 93 22:48:20 CDT
Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA01274; Mon, 19 Apr 93 17:30:17 MDT
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy)
Message-Id: <9304192330.AA01274@nyx.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
of Denver. The University has neither control over nor
responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users.
Subject: FutureCulture Digest #371
To: future-digest@nyx.cs.du.edu
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 17:30:15 MDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O
______________________________________________________________________
|______________ / |
| / |
| u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e |
_______________________________________________________________________|
Issue #371
Monday, April 19th 1993
Today's Topics:
---------------
cafe-net and low-speed demo-networking
DON'T mail to future-digest
low-speed connections
Re: Encryption Back Doors?!?
Re: Re- Cafe Net(Battletech)
relationships
Themes
This neato video proj you're all talkin about...
__________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 12:26:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: Grid Witch <battias@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: Encryption Back Doors?!?
On Sat, 17 Apr 1993 BOTTGERBRET@yvax.byu.edu wrote:
> I'm no criminal, I just am sure that the government doesn't always have my best
> interest in mind. They've oppressed my people before; what would stop them
> from doing it again? For your information, check out your American history
> under Mormons -- we've had our right to vote removed, had extermination orders
> levyed against us, had our city and temple destroyed....
Hey Badger... yes, we do live in a police state. If you think this stuff
is just in history, look at the present and think again -- the "drug war"
(which is being used to justify this ridiculous "clipper chip") is, in my
humble opinion, nothing more than an excuse for the government to
massively expand its tyrannical police powers and restrict the rights of
US citizens *with the consent, and even the blessings, of most of those
citizens*. The fact that most of America is buying this crap is the most
frightening thing to me. And for anybody who doesn't think that we live
in a fascist state, ask a few questions -- for example, why are there more
liquor stores in black and native American communities than there are in
white communities? Why did they have to have a second trial in the King
case? What are forfeiture laws separate from due process? (that's right,
if a cop plants coke in your yacht and then confiscates the yacht, _and_
you are then found innocent of any wrongdoing, you will _still_ lose your
yacht). IMHO, the machinery for martial law is being laid down in this
country _right under our noses_ and people not only accept it but even ask
for more. And this idiocy is even being accelerated under the supposedly
liberal Clinton admin. (national health cards? with your medical and
criminal history programmed into the magnetic strip? excuse me, but I
thought we were supposed to be better than South Africa). Sorry to flame,
but this topic is a pet peeve of mine (and should be for everyone!)
One last thing -- I recall reading about the clipper chip and that someone
had developed software to beat it and was providing the software via ftp.
Anyone know anything about this?
Grid Witch
______________________________
From: gwiner%UTCADMIN@ibm4381.onet.edu
Subject: Themes
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 13:51:00 EDT
O.K., there has been a bit of discussion about the potential "FC Movie"...how
about ideas for a working title (so I can stop calling it the "FC
Movie"...sounds kinda corny, no?). I have volenteered my services to attempt
some music for this project, but what I need from you (the collective) is a
couple of "themes". What I mean by this is a random list of words or brief
phrases that express what you envision when you think "FC Movie". This will
(hopefully) get me focused on an "attitude". If there are any other
musicians willing to work on this (I think someone else mentioned they were
interested too), I can forward that list to you if you e-mail me.
IMPORTANT: Please...To prevent a deluge of mail in this account, send replies
to an056@po.cwru.edu - I can hardly keep up with the incomming mail to this
account as it is.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
j a c k i n , b a b y:
g r e g o r y
n a t i o n o f t e f l o n
s o u l s
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
my opinions do not neccesarily
reflect the views of my employer
______________________________
From: zamboni@ap.cl.msu.edu (happy zamboni)
Subject: Re: Re- Cafe Net(Battletech)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 0:40:10 EDT
Speaking about cafenet, and games, and Battletech-Chicago:
> I tend to question the combination of a VR environment and the cafenet
> concept, unless some rather specialized cafenets develop. For an
> example of what happens when you combine food, social space and a lot
> of electronic hardware, go visit a Chuck E. Cheese.
>
> It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. :-)
>
> joe
I see and take your point, and I understand that the last thing
Cafenet should turn into is some sort of caffine-depot/video-arcade.
My apologys for getting off track on my train of thought -
Although some sort of gaming, I feel, would inspire technophobes
to try out the system in the first place. But yeah, Battletech is
not really what I originally intended, nor is it quite appropriate.
-Eric
______________________________
From: swisher@cs.utexas.edu (Janet M. Swisher)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 14:24:52 -0500
Subject: DON'T mail to future-digest
I guess this is just one of those things that just has to be said over
and over:
Send mail for this list ONLY to future@nyx.cs.du.edu.
Do not send mail to future-digest@etc.
Readers of future-digest get exactly the same stuff as readers of future,
only in digestified form. They DO NOT want to read future-related
messages individually. Please make these distinctions clear to anyone
you tell about the list.
Sorry for the interruption. Please don't make me say it again.
______________________________
From: eknipp@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu (Ethan Knipp)
Subject: relationships
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 13:33:33 MDT
Hey! I don't know if this fits or not, but whatthehell...
Is it possible for an intimate relationship to survive if there are sever
idealogical differences? i.e., I'm an atheist and she's a buddhist.... she's
an introvert and I'm an extrovert...
etc. ad nauseum.
--
So it's a cute little ascii drawing. | /------\ /-
So shoot me. | < DARWIN ><
T'han the Unbeliever | \______/ \_
eknipp@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu | _| _|
______________________________
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 16:04:34 +0600 (CST)
From: Patrick McKee <pmckee@uafhp.uark.edu>
Subject: Re: Encryption Back Doors?!?
On Mon, 19 Apr 1993, Grid Witch wrote:
>
> On Sat, 17 Apr 1993 BOTTGERBRET@yvax.byu.edu wrote:
>
> > I'm no criminal, I just am sure that the government doesn't always have my best
> > interest in mind. They've oppressed my people before; what would stop them
> > from doing it again? For your information, check out your American history
> > under Mormons -- we've had our right to vote removed, had extermination orders
> > levyed against us, had our city and temple destroyed....
>
> Hey Badger... yes, we do live in a police state. If you think this stuff
> is just in history, look at the present and think again -- the "drug war"
> (which is being used to justify this ridiculous "clipper chip") is, in my
> humble opinion, nothing more than an excuse for the government to
> massively expand its tyrannical police powers and restrict the rights of
> US citizens *with the consent, and even the blessings, of most of those
> citizens*. The fact that most of America is buying this crap is the most
> frightening thing to me. And for anybody who doesn't think that we live
> in a fascist state, ask a few questions -- for example, why are there more
> liquor stores in black and native American communities than there are in
> white communities?
Hmmm......I live in Fayetteville Ar and there are liquor stores every 500ft.
Whats your point? If people buy a lot of liquor, a lot of stores will spring
up. Sure some of the people are fooled and propagandized into drinking more
via media adds, but most people drink because they like to. I am sure that
this can be slanted to almost any view you want. I was severly put in my
place for making a statement with global implications based on local
experience. Perhaps you should re-think this? I mean show me statistics.
I just don't buy it. But, in your favor, statistics have shown that low
income families on welfare, social security, and food stamps generally do
drink more. At least when I was on un-employment and living in the projects
of Tampa, Fl. I know that I drank more. I drank to forget. I drank because
I could at least afford some brewsky even if I had not worked in a month.
I drank because it made me feel better. I drank so I could sleep at
night, with guns going off and people screaming at the top of their lungs
at 3am. I drank to hide the pain.
>Why did they have to have a second trial in the King
> case?
Because they needed one. Humans are not perfect. The King trial was
media hype at its finest. Videos are not PROOF. They are just better
proof than word of mouth. I am not sure what would have been better.
I think that if the crowd of people who SAT and watched Rodney King get
abused would have spoke up, one trial would have been fine, fry em! I
have to admit though that I have paid little attention to this trial.
Except to know that King was being used from the time that video hit
the screen. The riot was planned by the city. They knew things would
explode.
> What are forfeiture laws separate from due process? (that's right,
> if a cop plants coke in your yacht and then confiscates the yacht, _and_
> you are then found innocent of any wrongdoing, you will _still_ lose your
> yacht).
Come on - just a little too much Miami Vice, dont'cha think? I know that
it might happen sometimes, but use something that is a little more common
place. Like confiscating your car because some passenger had smack. Then
getting exonerated but still losing your car. That happens far more often
than drug planting.
> IMHO, the machinery for martial law is being laid down in this
> country _right under our noses_ and people not only accept it but even ask
> for more.
Always has been a fine line. Can't have police force without the possibility
of it being turned against us. Sure, I know that some of you would say
we don't need a police force to protect and I would have to say bullshit.
I don't trust anyone. Police, my mother, the preacher down the block, you.
Use or be used. Be or be had. I use the police when they are needed.
If someone breaks in my house and steals all my stuff, I call the cops.
> And this idiocy is even being accelerated under the supposedly
> liberal Clinton admin. (national health cards? with your medical and
> criminal history programmed into the magnetic strip? excuse me, but I
I have always thought that any cards with computer shit on them were evil.
Never had a credit card, never will. Line up get your numbers,
Armmageddon(sp) is coming.....*grin*
> thought we were supposed to be better than South Africa). Sorry to flame,
> but this topic is a pet peeve of mine (and should be for everyone!)
>
> One last thing -- I recall reading about the clipper chip and that someone
> had developed software to beat it and was providing the software via ftp.
> Anyone know anything about this?
>
> Grid Witch
>
I agree we should all be concerned with this shit. But, what the fuck
good does concern do without action. Everytime someone mentions taking
action against this shit people scatter. fight back if any of the shit
that GW mentioned happens to you. Don't just lay down and play rover.
Fight. Fight intelligently. Know your rights. And most importantly,
HAVE WITNESSES!!!!
pmckee
______________________________
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 17:51:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher j Heschong <cjhescho@sacam.oren.ortn.edu>
Subject: This neato video proj you're all talkin about...
Well, I've been lookin at the stuff on hear about your proposed vid and
all... and the probs with figgurin out how to shoot the actual on-line
scenes (what?! You don;t think text translates into exciting visual
effect? <g>)... Well, there isn't any way to take a straight terminal
texty type thing and shoot it cool... So change it. Make a telnet look
like that scene in Bill & Ted's [something] adventure where their phone
boot goes zoomin thru the tubes... Do something cool like that. *make*
it VR lookin. Otherwise, its gonna look like... well, it's gonna look
like text (oh gasp of horror) See?
___________________________________________________________________________
<> ChristJ <><><><><><><><> (c) 1998 <><><><><><><> World Leader Pretend <>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
______________________________
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 16:54:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Grid Witch <battias@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: Encryption Back Doors?!?
Patrick -- I agree w/most of what you said; I made the remarks I did as
examples -- symptomatic of a larger trend in our society that continues
regardless of the details of the examples. Sure lots of people drink for
lots of reasons -- me for instance -- but I think you'd have to be blind
not to agree that there is a deliberate (perhaps not conscious) attempt on
the part of those in power to exercise that power against various
communities in this country -- not just mormons. And for African
Americans or American natives this must surely look like genocide. The
fact that 1/4 all black males are in prison or facing criminal charges,
that even more native American men are in the same condition, that, as you
admit, a large percentage of the poor and working classes do drink
excessively (and smoke and do more drugs and have a higher level of
violence in their communities) -- these facts are certainly due to a
number of complex factors, but one of those factors is that the "system"
-- however you define that -- is better off if those people _don't_ do
something about it. Which is one of the things you seem to agree with.
As for the cops planting evidence, you're right -- this probably doesn't
happen in most cases (but I would wager that it happens more often than
either of us think). But I use the example to note the potential for
abuse there -- what scares me about the drug war is how easily it could be
used in a full-scale police state against those citizens who don't think
they have anything to hide. As for the existence of the cops, well, I
agree that our society couldn't function w/o them. That's one of the
fucked up things about our society. But as far as using the cops -- they
aren't going to stop you from getting robbed, mugged or killed. And they
probably won't get your stuff back. But they will at least make a report
that you can send to your insurance company if you want. So they are
useful in that sense. But just don't be in the wrong place at the wrong
time...
______________________________
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 14:14:45 EDT
From: rjs@devsrv1 (Rob Sweeney)
Subject: cafe-net and low-speed demo-networking
** (WARNING! Don't (R)eply - mail to rjs doesn't work! Edit the To field!!) **
adamfast asserts..:
> i am not into administering a million unix shell accounts, but instead
>providing direct iNet access... i too am somewhat skeptical about cafe+net, but
>am willing to try. as i said i would rather provide network jacks in the cafe
>instead of providing the software, the terminal, etc., which are all
>administrtion nightmares. providing an internet gateway is less of a hassle
>(tho still a hassle.)
so, everyone who wanted to get into the "net" part of cafe-net would have
to have, say, laptops with SLIP software, which would then talk to a
terminal server. This could work - most SLIP implementations allow IP
addresses to be assigned by the terminal server. Then, all the cafe-net
admin would >have< to do would be to keep an eye on the terminal
server setup and Internet line to make sure everything kept working.
Presumably people would have to be set up initially - so they'd have
properly configured laptops, mailing addresses, etc. Training and
that sort of thing could then be done ad-hoc. It *would* be a big
hassle, but since the cafe might provide a disk and some basic
intructions, the more technical people would figure it out, and the
less technical people would ask the more technical people for help.
Over latte, natch..
I can see it happening, conceptually, except..
> i am also concerned that this will provide access for the elite only (those
>who can buy laptops) but... the elite can buy a lot of coffee ;-)
.. which makes me think of postings to rec.travel.air (or whatever) and
the frequent-flyers mailing lists - haunted by the corpocracy, posting
from the Admiral's Club at DFW, or from offline mailers at 35,000 feet.
Are these the cafe-net userbase? (maybe, but if so, count me out)
> also this provides a base to start providing more direct access to remote
>users. slow speed access, admitedly. i don't know. all this press from the big
>orgs about providing universal hi bandwidth services is just keeping us all
>from organizing access now, and letting them get their shit together while we
>wait... buys them a lot of time. masters of hype. why can't we get in on this
>too?
merging topics a bit here, but, see, this is the thing: so what if
the access is slow speed? Look at what we're doing: mostly mail & ftp,
maybe a bit of USENET, some IRC. I expect that a good part of this list's
readership remembers, or still is experiencing, the net thru UUCP or other
store & forward connections. It *is* slower, but it's not that bad. I
get future thru UUCP, and I can keep up. When I was running the BEC,
everything was thru dialup, UUCP connections, and while it wasn't as fast
or reliable as the net is today, it worked OK - even USENET is doable if
your modems are fast enough or you limit the groups you get. For FTP,
look to Fido's file request facility - works fine, and I believe costs
are borne by the requester (don't remember offhand exactly how it works)
- which is fair. IRC, finger, and the other facilities are harder,
because they imply a direct connection. But.. for small sites, on-demand,
low-speed dialup will work fine for any of them. For nearly all applications,
you don't need a lot of directly-connected bandwidth - all you need to do is
use what you can get - *efficiently*. Picture a net where, instead of a
maxi-gigabit, Gore-y (and government-controlled) backbone, or an oligopoly of
government and corporate backbones, you have a web, or trellis, of privately,
or personally owned, low-speed, efficiently-utilized, and (relatively)
cheap connections. You build and use whatever >you< can afford.
What ya want, I think.
For reasons other than access and control. I'd keep a sharp
weather eye on the Gore-y initiative, and its ilk. BADGER's
recent post rings true: >> I'm no criminal, I just am sure that the
>>government doesn't always have my best interest in mind. They've
>>oppressed my people before; what would stop them from doing it again?
Our >own< net?
/rs Personal replies to: rsweeney@panix.com (please)
** WARNING: My outbound mailer munges addresses! CHECK ADDRESSES WHEN REPLYING!
______________________________
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 14:34:03 EDT
From: rjs@devsrv1 (Rob Sweeney)
Subject: low-speed connections
** (WARNING! Don't (R)eply - mail to rjs doesn't work! Edit the To field!!) **
On the subject of low-speed dialup connections..
I've always wondered: many places have untimed local telephone service,
where you pay one charge for a local call, no matter how long the call
lasts. Some places even have flat-rate local service, where all local
calls are free.
So..
What if you make a local call (dialup SLIP call!) and >never hang up<?
Will they cut the connection at some point, even though there will always
be traffic on the line (the carrier)? Even if they did, you could always
call right back. With 14.4kbps modems on either end, this would make
quite a usable low-speed net connection, at least in areas with this
kind of telephone service.
--
/rs Personal replies to: rsweeney@panix.com (please)
** WARNING: My outbound mailer munges addresses! CHECK ADDRESSES WHEN REPLYING!
______________________________
From: Patrick McKee <pmckee@uafhp.uark.edu>
Subject: Re: Encryption Back Doors?!?
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 18:03:16 CDT
I guess that most of what I am saying is that ALL these things exist.
Police State tactics, Corruption of officials in power, a shitty
existance for minorities and the poor, racial hatred...etc.
But, here we are. What do we do about it? Do we just talk? Do
we create mailing lists and take drugs to block out the noise? Or
do we do something? Try to make it better. Most of us just want to
get our job after school and keep on talking about the problems. Some
actually do something, however this number is VERY few. Someday, maybe
people will realize, after they have taken away the right to own and
operate a bbs, or the right to net access without a plastic card and five forms of id, that what is needed is action. A political lobby, the eff, the
coming together of this futureculture into a gestalt that says "we will
not take this shit anymore".
Why waste our time dreaming of what may be, why not make it happen?
I don't know if this is right, but, so far I all I can see is net.talk.
I know that raves are happening and that society is changing, but I live
in arkansas and nothing is happening here, at least nothing worth note.
We need to make the news, not be the news. I just feel that as I sit here
at work and ponder all this shit on a daily basis that if we do not start
making news, GOOD news, then we will not garner any more than a minority
of people. And we know what happens to minorities. As to making it happen
I know that some of the people on this list are making things happen. This
is just a call for more political (good political) propaganda about what
our culture is changing into. We have to make the dweebs want it. We have
to romanticize our existance. We have to get good publicity. We have to make
the news! Without a good communication wagon, we will fade or just become
the lost heroes, those that could have been.
I have a recurring nightmare in which I am a hobo of the 22nd century and
I am telling a story to some young kids about the dream we had....
pmckee
_________________________________________________________________________
| |
| That's all for today! |
| To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu |
| To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu |
| All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu |
| List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu |
|_________________________________________________________________________|
| |
| The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual |
| author only. |
|_________________________________________________________________________|
Comments
Post a Comment