Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 422
Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 422
Monday, June 10th 1991
Today's Topics:
Statistical Sampling
Hard Copy Booboo!
ParaNet GetTogether
Hypnosis and Social Gathering
Re: UFONS
Re: FLIGHT 19
FLIGHT 19 *NOT* FOUND
DR. NATHAN INTERVIEW
Miscellaneous
Re: Miscellaneous
Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
So. cal uof bbs
UFO Board
Re: HYPNOSIS FOR TRUTH
Re: FLIGHT 19
DR. NATHAN INTERVIEW
(none)
(none)
Re: Valle Interview
Re: ParaNet GetTogether
Re: Hard Copy Booboo!
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Statistical Sampling
Date: 9 Jun 91 17:44:00 GMT
Would anyone on the network have experience with statistical sampling? I am
interested in forming a questionaire which could poll the scientific community
about this subject to get an "intelligence quotient" on their knowledge of the
scientific merits that this phenomenon holds.
Send me responses here or e-mail me at:
FidoNet: 1:104/422 or
Internet: mcorbin@scicom.alphacdc.com
Thanks,
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker)
Subject: Hard Copy Booboo!
Date: 7 Jun 91 05:20:00 GMT
John Hicks said:
> > Where was the real photograph?
>
> Yep, where's the beef?
In reference to the Hard Copy segment, I, having set this segment up can
answer your questions. First, the photo you mention, ( or two or three photos
of the object in question ) were NEVER released by the Soviets. What they did
release was the photo of the ellipse, which by the way anyone can see in
Sitchins newest offering "Genesis Revisited". As to Mr. Wernikoff's
statement earlier, which I could not respond to since my system was down, the
segment showing a shadow crossing the moonlet Phobos was an artists
depiction. The photo of Phobos was real, having gotten it from JPL, the
shadow was inserted. HOWEVER, considering how most media has treated this
subject, this seems to me IMHO to be a rather nit picky type of remark. No
one else to my knowledge has addressed this subject. So Guys, lighten up why
don't ya?? GRIN
Don
--
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From: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Villa)
Subject: ParaNet GetTogether
Date: 6 Jun 91 07:30:00 GMT
>That's an idea I've had for years, but have been afraid to suggest, for
>fear everyone will expect me to make the arrangements. I've helped put
>together one UFO conference, and I aint-a-gonna do it again. But its a
>great idea, and I will make every effort to attend one!
What UFO conference did you help put together?
Hmm, well we would need a place where the people coming from out of
state could stay the night or weekend since a one day thing would be out of
the question. We would need to see some genuine interest because one or two
people making an effort to go only to show up and have one other person
there is a real downer. We could do a camping thing for a few nights, under
the stars. Maybe bring portable telescopes and hiking gear. That would be
fun. How about at the sand dunes in northern CA? Those are great fun when
it is not windy. There are also some very nice campgrounds along the beach.
Arizona is a good state with nice campgrounds and wideopen views of the sky
and land. How many of you are outdoorsy people?
--
David Villa - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Villa)
Subject: Hypnosis and Social Gathering
Date: 6 Jun 91 07:37:00 GMT
>Dear David,
> Great to hear from you again! I tried calling your board yesterday but
>was unable to get thru - just wanted to see if you were there and able to
>chat. I even dialed the 2nd time with an access code (AT&T I think it was)
>and still an operator voice told me to hang up and dial again. Any ideas
>what I should do?
Hmm, that baffles me. Sorry to hear you had a problem. I have no
idea what it could be. We talked recently but did you have this problem
before or after you got through the other day? It could have been a
temporary phone company error.
> I think Jim Speiser would be the perfect person to organize a Western
>States pow-wow. After all, he's had the experience...... That is a great
>idea, however, and we should have it someplace cool, and that isn't Phoenix
>right at the moment!
Well, Jim has allready stated his position on this, and I understand
where he is coming from very well. I am not much of an organizer and since
I do not have a car, it is hard for me to travel much of anywhere without a
carpool. I am, however, very willing to put an effort into trying to
organize somthing to meet you interesting people. I guess I'll start with
gathering a general consensus as to what type of gathering it you are
comfortable with. One day picnic in the country? Weekend camping trip?
> I met Kathie Davis last summer at the MUFON conference in Pensacola,
>Fla. One of the organizers held a short social for Kathie
>and invited "Ladies Only." And I was lucky enough to be invited.
Wow, that sure was a grand opportunity you were given. Was she
comfortable talking about her experiences or was she pretty burnt out on it?
Did Budd Hopkin speak at that conference?
> It would be very beneficial for all of us if you talked to your mother
>about hypnosis, then posted your findings on the board for all of us.
>There is so much to learn. (Why wouldn't your friend want to know more
>about the light that spoke to him???)
>
>Best regards,
> .
> Linda
Do you have any questions you would like me to relay to my mother? I
would be more then happy to act as a go-between for any questions you may
have. I find my mother an amazing woman. It is not often I see her 'work
side' but when I get those occaisional peaks I find myself very proud of the
work she does and abilities she possesses.
She says that Hypnosis is a very inexact science which most people
who utilize it do not understand completely (herself included). I have been
hypnotized once, long ago when I was about to have oral surgery. The
hypnotic suggestions I received were to keep the bleeding to a minimum and
reduce any complications which may spring up. The doctor himself stated
afterwards that he was supprised how little bleeding there had been and how
well the surgery went.
Judy (my mother) had a female patient who had a problem with a
fertilized egg which blocked her fillopean tube and, as the doctors stated,
"irrepairably damaged her reproductive system as to depriving her of the
abilty to become pregnant". My mother and this woman began exploritory
hynosis to find out, through the patient's subconscience what the problem
was. My mother asked her subconscience to do what it could to heal the
damage the body had suffered. 3 years later, my mother received a phone
call from this woman who said that she was now 9 months pregnant and she
felt that the hypnotic work they had done together had given her her child.
My mom tells me that she talks to the subconscience of the patient as
a very knowledgable being. She sometimes asks the patient's subconscience
for the best way to treat the patient.
As for my friend, he is not into UFOs at all and does not speculate
what the light was or if it was a truly a dream. It just came to mind as I
was telling him about the abductee experiences and 'dreams' in a
conversation, which in itself hints that they are somehow connected. I
would very much like to know what my friend has seen or may have hidden away
in his subconscience but I know he would not subject himself to hypnosis
over it. He feels it is not a worthwhile experience to follow which is too
bad. This must be a common attitude for abductees who never tell their
story to anyone, "They would think I was crazy if I told them about this. I
am sure it is nothing. Probably just a dream anyway. A waste of time and
money to look into."
--
David Villa - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Villa)
Subject: Re: UFONS
Date: 6 Jun 91 08:04:00 GMT
Thanks, Linda, I'll send Lucius a letter and get some information.
--
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: FLIGHT 19
Date: 3 Jun 91 17:46:28 GMT
The first photo has already been taken, and anyone familiar with photography
knows what a kiss mark looks like, but I was flying back from Reno a couple
of years ago, and just by chance a picture of the clouds has a nice one on
it. It would never make it past first base.
The second one needs some effort to make the UFO image, I'll say no more,
but I already posted how on here a couple of months ago.
Last one I sighted as an optical illusion last week. I was driving along and
saw this glowing thing sort of moving back and forth (mostly just floating?)
and it looked like balls of flames were dropping off of it. Really strange!
So I stopped the car and grabbed for one of the cameras then drove towards
it. Before I could take a picture, I figured out what it was. So I put the
car in reverse and backed up to the original sighting point, and wow there it
was again, bobbing back and forth, dropping illuminated balls of light.
Now that I have pretty well explained them, if I see a real UFO it won't
look like any of these, or be as easy to explain, so hopefully I can retain
some credibility. OR on the other hand it will automatically be shot down as
a hoax without any problem.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose)
Subject: FLIGHT 19 *NOT* FOUND
Date: 6 Jun 91 21:50:38 GMT
In a message to all <05 Jun 91 10:06> John Hicks wrote:
JH> The mythic mystery of the Bermuda Triangle remained intact
JH> Tuesday with the revelation that the Navy Avengers found off the
JH> coast of Fort Lauderdale are not the Lost
JH> Squadron that vanished 45 years ago.
Steven Speilberg thanks you. You saved his movie. ;-)
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: DR. NATHAN INTERVIEW
Date: 7 Jun 91 16:18:00 GMT
> conclusion: He has no definitive proof of a hoax, but the data are
> consistent with images from double exposures.
Sounds pretty reasonable. Some would require masking and
double-printing rather than double-exposure in the camera, but all
could be doubles of some kind.
There's noting in them that precludes them being doubles.
> Dr. Nathan also explained that he has asked both Walters and
> Maccabee for more original negatives to analyze, but he has
> received only duplicates.
I hope he means original Polaroid prints, not negs.
> He has recently received some new negatives from Tommy Smith's
> father, but does not have any analyses completed on these as yet.
Note that the Smith photos were shot on 35mm neg film.
Thanks for your efforts.
jbh
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Miscellaneous
Date: 7 Jun 91 16:20:01 GMT
> Yes, indeed. BTW, what do you know about the 'Rainbow
> Declaration?' I understand that Brandenburg did this work and
> would like to hear a little more about it.
I think it's in last year's MUFON Symposium proceedings. I'll have a
look and let you know.
jbh
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: Miscellaneous
Date: 7 Jun 91 16:23:02 GMT
> does anyone know if the grasses continue to grow sideways, or do
> they eventually go back to growing straight up opposite the pull
> of gravity?
I haven't seen any mention of that. Good question.
jbh
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee
Date: 7 Jun 91 16:29:03 GMT
> why does he not provide Dr. Nathan with the negatives he has requested?
That's an easy answer. They're not Bruce's to provide. Ed himself
will not release the originals.
jbh
--
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From: Don.Orchard@p1.f502.n202.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Orchard)
Subject: So. cal uof bbs
Date: 7 Jun 91 07:24:03 GMT
In a message to All <28 May 91 15:38> Mark Pope wrote:
MP> Does anybody know of a UFO info BBS that is in Southern California?
MP> Any info would be appreciated......
Hi Mark,
Well this is quite late and I'm sure you have already found a good board
to find UFO information. But just incase you haven't my Board is located in
San Diego if you're looking that far south. The number is (619)447-3086, for
now anyway. It'll be changing on the 21st or 22nd of June. Take care and I'll
be watchiing for you..
See Ya!!
Don
--
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From: Dan.Sjolseth@f21.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Dan Sjolseth)
Subject: UFO Board
Date: 8 Jun 91 05:00:46 GMT
Mark,
My system is totally releated to UFO. I carry ParaNet,Mufon,Crystal Link,
idoNet,PODS,GateWay.....
Call anytime and drop me anot and I will validate.
Regards,
Dan Sjolseth
1-805-583-UFOS Stargate Systems BBS
--
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From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: HYPNOSIS FOR TRUTH
Date: 7 Jun 91 15:56:40 GMT
Welcome, I saw all your test messages and knew you would soon be fully
connected.
For you or anyone interested in how a person questioning, or interviewing
someone awake can effect the answers try looking up Rosenthal's experiments
on how experimenter's effect studys results, without conciously trying to do
so. Under hypnosis the subtle inferences might also lead people towards
desired responses. I'd be more specific but last time I read this study was
in 1981 and it just seemed to fit the discussion. It should be under
Psychology, and may have been 1971 when I read it during an experimental
psyc. course. It's been a long long time.
--
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From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: FLIGHT 19
Date: 9 Jun 91 07:27:01 GMT
> Now that I have pretty well explained them, if I see a real UFO
> it won't look like any of these, or be as easy to explain,
Reminds me of the time a few months ago when I was out being walked
by the dog one night and I noticed a triangular pattern of lights just
hovering, apparently above the cloud deck. I watched for a quite a
while and determined that the lights weren't moving, then suddenly
they vanished.
Really strange. I couldn't figure out what I'd seen.
A few weeks later, I was driving past the Disney area south of town
and I saw several spotlights being swiveled around. As I watched, they
were aimed upward in a fairly circular pattern, then went off.
Mystery solved. The night I'd first seen the lights, the cloud cover
had just happened to be right.
jbh
--
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From: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose)
Subject: DR. NATHAN INTERVIEW
Date: 7 Jun 91 17:25:06 GMT
In a message to All <01 Jun 91 06:11> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:
SW> Robert Nathan at JPL in regards to the continuing saga of the Gulf
SW> Breeze photos. Nathan has analyzed several original negatives,
SW> utilizing microscopy, computer digitization and image enhancement,
SW> along with multiple density printing to arrive at the following
SW> conclusion: He has no definitive proof of a hoax, but the data are
SW> consistent with images from double exposures. Nathan does not feel
SW> that the GB images are from real UFO's.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
--
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From: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose)
Subject: (none)
Date: 7 Jun 91 17:35:48 GMT
In a message to All <02 Jun 91 17:50> ncar!ecn.purdue.edu!lush@ wrote:
nc> A couple newsletters ago, I mentioned seeing an article regarding
nc> the picture of Bush and an alien going for a stroll at Camp David.
nc> I did not mention 'Grey' aliens, nor did the article. Why does
nc> everyone assume immediately that it was a 'Grey'?
What else would you wish to call the man in the body-suit? In addition...
how do you know they were REALLY at 'Camp David'? heh heh.
We just use the term "grey" for convenience. After all, it is not considered
a scientific label...now is it? I prefer it to 'alien being' or some such
nomer. Since *I* believe it is no such thing in this particular case...I am
marveling more at the digitized 'matting' technique used to produce the
realistic-looking composit image (photograph) on the front page. Guess those
creative editors really do find new uses for their Apple Mac IIs. ;-)
--
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From: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose)
Subject: (none)
Date: 7 Jun 91 17:49:31 GMT
DV> the article seemed to be obvious fakes to me. The poses of the
DV> 'being' and president in the picture were unreal. I thought I
DV> could see what looked to me like 'superimposure' marks on the
DV> President's head over the rest of the body.
Haha! David...working at a televideo production center, I can tell you how
EASY it is to have YOUR still or video image walking arm-in-arm with the Pope.
Apparently, this not-so-new technology has been featured in those rag-mags for
some time now...but is improving to the point where honest people (sic) are
having trouble telling the fantasies from the fakes.
So much for one of the down-sides of our First Amendment rights.
I enjoyed the outlandish attempt some months back to show, "SPACE JUNK FOUND ON
THE MOON!!" in which we were treated to a 'lunar surface' with strewned debris
of toilet seats and baby strollers. People started to think we were actually
launching rockets with our garabage and crashing it into the moon! Featured in
the same rag that came up with "BOEING 707 UNCOVERED FROM LUNAR SURFACE!" in a
prior issue. I said, "So THAT's where I lost it!!" :-)
--
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From: Paul.Mcavoy@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Mcavoy)
Subject: Re: Valle Interview
Date: 7 Jun 91 00:31:00 GMT
I was thinking that it could be that Asmiov, and Sagan realize that they
have many people who follow them and belive what they have to say as being a
possible reality. Therefore, they might not be so inclined to say anything
For the support of anything that people might claim for Aliens, and UFO's
being real, but what I would not understand is if they claimed to be
vehemently against all possibilities that they might be real. IF that were
true, then why would they research data so thouroughly for their books, when
they use Aliens and other life forms (If they do at all) in them when they
don't belive in any possibility of their existance...?
--
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From: Paul.Mcavoy@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Mcavoy)
Subject: Re: ParaNet GetTogether
Date: 7 Jun 91 00:35:00 GMT
I'm an outdorsy person, I love to camp, I do it every year in northern
california.
--
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From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker)
Subject: Re: Hard Copy Booboo!
Date: 9 Jun 91 23:59:00 GMT
Linda Bird said:
> Yo John,
> You said: That photo Marina held up was an explosion of a secret
> rocket/missle.
>
> I'm assuming it was a Soviet rocket explosion? Boy, that sure
> breaks down her credibility, don't you thing??
>
> Yuk! How unprofessional!
>
> Gives me a bad taste in my mouth. :-(
Would you mind stating which photo you refer to? I am very familar with all
the photos she had, and I am not aware of any depicting a rocket explosion
that she was passing off as a UFO.
As a matter of fact, I just met her again last evening, (she is presently back
here in the States on a speaking tour) and the Hard Copy Producer, Dean Vallas
and I saw THE photo that was alluded to on the segment. She was given the
photo that had not been released prior to now, the one taken by Phobos 2 prior
to its disapearence. The photo sent back shows a very long cigar shaped
"craft"? that is just in front of Phobos-The Moon. I am presently working on
getting a copy of same. Let me say this about Marina. She is not only a
fascinating person, but this would be in the US the equivalent of Chuck Yeager
or John Glenn going public on the UFO phenomenon, using their military
backround as the basis of their information.
Everyone is always complaining about the "apparent coverup" by those in the
know, and here is what is virtually a world reknown avaition hero, speaking
about what she knows about this enigma, and so far as is apparent all I have
seen is complaints about how Hard Copy depicted the shadow, or this alleged
photo of a rocket exploding. What about the information she imparted?
Don
--
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