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May 15, 1992
DENISLEE.ASC
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This file shared with KeelyNet courtesy of Bob Aldrich,
SYSOP of Survivor BBS in Los Angeles.
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SOME INFORMATION ON THE DENNIS LEE "PHASE CHANGE" MACHINE
April 12, 1992
Note: This is an interview between Jim Davis and Bob Aldrich,
Sysop of the Survivor Club BBS in Los Angeles; 1-213-663-1301
Jim saw the machine in question and this is his report on it.
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Q: When did you see this device?
A: Two years ago, in Ventura.
He had a 500 gallon tank of water, and the idea was to see
how much... He was running a compressor with a wattmeter on the
wall, and we could measure the amount of electricity it took to
raise the temperature seventy degrees in the tank of water, so we
could calculate the BTU's it took to raise the temperature of the
water, and we could calculate the watts out of the power lines, and
when we did the calculation; we had gotten out of the plates on the
roof an equivalent of eight times what we got out of the power
plug.
Q: How was the system set up?
A: There was a compressor; seven plates on the roof, (three
or four feet wide by seven feet long); this compressor pushed
refrigerant through the plates on the roof, and when it would come
down and the compressor compressed it, heat would come out, and it
was a very short run from there into the tank of water, a big
insulated thing, 500 gallons. It (pipes) went into the tank of
water and dumped the heat into it.
Q: How long did it take to heat this tank up?
A: Forty Minutes, not long, it was fast.
Each of us, about seven of us, got to go up the ladder and
check the temperature. It was about room temperature to start.
Page 1
Then afterwards there was another set of plates down below
going into a frame box with one inch of full thick insulation and
a half-inch of plywood. We shoved the plates in there and closed
the doors and turned the thing on and got the tempurature down to
minus ten. And we got hot water from inside that box, which was at
minus ten. Of course there was heat leaking in from outside in the
room, which was at 65 degrees. But we went out for a lecture and
came back in an hour or so and we had made forty gallons of hot
water.
And then he did something else, he took that minus ten
refrigerated space and heated up the room with it to show us this
thing was net-gaining and it wasn't just sucking air out of the
room. He took the heat from this refrigerator (insulated space) and
he hooked it up to this blower and heated the room up till it was
about 75 degrees. That heat was actually being generated from that
refrigerator. Of course heat was leaking into the refrigerator but
nevertheless this whole warehouse got warm. The refrigerator got
down to close to minus twenty. I think the freon was good for just
down to that point, its boiling point was minus twenty. I was
impressed, I think it was free energy, myself.
Q: Free meaning, "Well, there's the heat in the refrigerator,
let's use it out here.", right?
A: Yes, well, we transferred it, yes.
Q: How big was the refrigerator?
A: Oh, gee, about ten feet by twelve feet by eight feet. It
was big.
Q: A walk in.
A: Yes. He was demonstrating that you could make air
conditioning in your house. You have a little room, you make it
cold, maybe it's your refrigerator, you pump that through the rest
of your house, you've got air-conditioning. You want to make your
refrigerator cold, your swimming pool hot, you could do that. If
you wanted to have a sauna, you could pump heat from there to a
sauna.
It's neat. (just move the heat around) Then later, what he was
trying to do was to perfect a way to make electricity out of that
coefficient of performance of eight, if he could convert that to
electricity, he could make enough to run the whole system.
Q: You mean, the power would be coming from out-door heat?
A: Right.
Q: And you could run the system. So you would just need a more
efficient freon-driven generator.
A: Well, he claims there was a way of making it much more
efficient; using special lubricants; if he could make the
compressor the right way, he could make it so it runs at air
temperature. Right now it's restricted to keep the compressor from
melting down. Because if you were not to restrict the input of the
Page 2
freon into the plates, the compressor would get too hot; so the
compressor has a heat sensor on it, and when it gets too hot it
just shuts down those valves, to cool the system down. I think it
could take 207 degrees or something.
Q: Was there some talk of a ceramic compressor?
A: Yes. That was another company.
Q: When was the last time you saw Dennis?
A: That was the last time. Two years ago.
Q: What do you call it?
A: Phase Change. Dennis Lee's Phase Change. A heat pump.
Q: There must be something different about it; how is it
different from a regular heat pump?
A: It's a flat-plate heat pump, it takes you further.
Q: What do they normally use?
A: They're around a box, there's a fan in the center. They
tend to ice up, these (Lee's) don't because the plates are all
spread out. But really, that's all it is.
Q: So just more efficient?
A: Heat pumps are efficient too, but this is more efficient
because it's spread out, it gets more heat.
End of interview.
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Interviewer's Note:
This is not, of course perpetual motion. Not any more, that
is, than the spinning of the earth or the burning of the sun is
perpetual motion. Or perhaps not any more than a gold-miner is
getting free gold by digging it out of the ground. Of course some
energy has to be expended to dig it out. Of course a woodcutter has
to work hard to get some firewood to heat his house. But somehow
in the scheme of things, the digging for gold or the cutting of
wood pays for itself. The goldminer cashes his gold at the bank or
wherever, buys some new clothes, buys food and whiskey, takes a
woman, later takes some rest, and, so energized, takes the money
left over to mine more gold! Free energy! It goes the same with a
woodcutter. Of course a heat pump would have to expend some energy
to pump the heat inside, especially when the temperature is colder
outside than in!
The point is that there is all this heat floating around in
the environment just going to waste! Why not use it, and
efficiently?
Why get it from a gas pipe when you can get it from the outside
Page 3
air? Why use electricity when the potential is there to take energy
from right outside the window? At least if you are going to use
electricity to heat your refrigerator, you could take that heat and
heat your water-heater! You get the idea!
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Vangard Note...
We first came across the activities of Dennis Lee at a Global
Sciences Conference in Denver Colorado. At that time, Dennis had
just been released from prison for fraudulent dealings with his
heat pump device. Although we did not speak with him privately,
we did attend an impromptu presentation at which he mentioned his
past and made claims regarding his system. The device was
promoted ONLY as a means of heating water yet hints were made
that it had other uses. It was also claimed that there were
thousands of units in operation.
One of the men attending the presentation stood up and accused
Dennis of ripping him off for about $3000. He also said many
others had also been ripped off and warned the audience to not be
taken in. This developed into a heated argument between Dennis
and the man which we all thought might break out into a fight.
We later spoke with this man and he said Dennis had made claims
and took his money, but he never saw the device that he had
"bought". We now understand that Dennis is sponsoring an '800'
number offering videotapes of the device for $50. The idea is
that you send a check or money order that will not be redeemed as
long as you return the video. We have not pursued this offer.
In support of the concept, we understand that it does indeed work
quite well despite the shady dealings of its promoters. The heat
pump is extremely efficient in the above mentioned configuration
as told to us by another local resarcher who is working on a
thermodynamic turbine. This local researcher informs us that in
the state of Texas, co-generation techniques that provide power
to be sold back into the grid need ONLY be purchased if generated
by CERTAIN SPECIFIC TECHNIQUES.
Acceptable co-generation techniques include Solar, Geothermal,
Wind, Nuclear or standard armature-type electrical generators.
Our inventor friend tells us that heat pumps as co-generators are
specifically EXCLUDED from the list that power companies are
required to buy back. We found that quite interesting...this
particular inventor feels that he was targeted as his turbine
device could be used to generate electrical power and so the law
was made to prevent consumers from making money FROM the power
company.
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Jerry W. Decker.........Ron Barker...........Chuck Henderson
Vangard Sciences/KeelyNet
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