UFO/Alien message board part 7

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From: SCHLEGEL@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Mark)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <1992Mar14.192121.4481@news.unomaha.edu>
Date: 14 Mar 92 19:21:21 GMT
References: <1992Mar13.043523.18992@spdcc.com> <92073.121819GHADSAL@auvm.american.edu> <1992Mar14.043415.16579@cbnewsd.att.com>
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In-Reply-To: press2@cbnewsd.att.com's message of 14 Mar 92 04: 34:15 GMT
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In <1992Mar14.043415.16579@cbnewsd.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.att.com writes:

> In article <92073.121819GHADSAL@auvm.american.edu>, GHADSAL@auvm.american.edu (Guy Hadsall) writes:
> >
> > What is it ?
> > Who is it ?
> > Why are people afraid of its utterance ?
>
>
> You must mean the MJ twelve. these guys are actual descendants of the
> star people from the planet Marij-juana from the horsehead galaxy.
> They brought an evil plant with them in hopes of destroying all
> earth's inhabitants by enticing us to consume this plant internally
> for a good time.
> Government studies show that it shrinks the brain, and the consumers
> of this most vile plant go into fits of inaction.
> The US government fell for it at first, and actually promoted the plants'
> growth and use during WWII, However...

Yes, remember Judge Ginsburg admiting he smoked some and then he
mysteriously lost the Supreme court nomination..... spooky.

> The government caught on to this(goodness in time) before too many
> of earth's inhabitants got hooked into using it's vileness. This
> plant is ILLEGAL now to use or grow. The MJ twelve are furious and
> making an attempt to get it legalized by the governments of the world.
> Our government is trying to make these other countries ban the plant
> for their own good, even if they are not aware of its evil origins.
> Any topics concerning MJ twelve are very hush-hush. Best not to bring
> it up again.
>
> I'm taking a risk, but you asked. Now no more!
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From: U37460@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>
Date: 15 Mar 92 22:19:12 GMT
References: <99669@bu.edu.bu.edu>
 <1992Mar13.223855.7978@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <BL2wDy.5wI@world.std.com>
 <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
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In article <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca
(Tom Hamill) says:
>
>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>
>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>
>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>
>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>Satin draws mates bod.
I sat in Ward's tame knob.
* RRRR     A    V     V  EEEEE  is life.  Ethan Haslett    DJ Crust    *
* R   R   A A   V     V  E      is life.  Bitnet:U37460@UICVM          *
* RRRR   AAAAA   V   V   EEEE   is life.  InterNet:                    *
* R  R   A   A    V V    E      is life.  U37460@uicvm.uic.edu         *
* R   R  A   A     V     EEEEE  is life.  haslett@earth.eecs.uic.edu   *
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From: press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <1992Mar14.043415.16579@cbnewsd.att.com>
Date: 14 Mar 92 04:34:15 GMT
References: <1992Mar13.043523.18992@spdcc.com> <92073.121819GHADSAL@auvm.american.edu>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
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In article <92073.121819GHADSAL@auvm.american.edu>, GHADSAL@auvm.american.edu (Guy Hadsall) writes:
>
> What is it ?
> Who is it ?
> Why are people afraid of its utterance ?


You must mean the MJ twelve. these guys are actual descendants of the
star people from the planet Marij-juana from the horsehead galaxy.
They brought an evil plant with them in hopes of destroying all
earth's inhabitants by enticing us to consume this plant internally
for a good time.
Government studies show that it shrinks the brain, and the consumers
of this most vile plant go into fits of inaction.
The US government fell for it at first, and actually promoted the plants'
growth and use during WWII, However...
The government caught on to this(goodness in time) before too many
of earth's inhabitants got hooked into using it's vileness. This
plant is ILLEGAL now to use or grow. The MJ twelve are furious and
making an attempt to get it legalized by the governments of the world.
Our government is trying to make these other countries ban the plant
for their own good, even if they are not aware of its evil origins.
Any topics concerning MJ twelve are very hush-hush. Best not to bring
it up again.

I'm taking a risk, but you asked. Now no more!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys
From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <7168@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>
Date: 14 Mar 92 04:45:30 GMT
References: <9203121915.AA11631@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au
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In <9203121915.AA11631@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas x5363) writes:

>I was sent this by a friend to post.  I find it challanging and believeable
>in light of how the bible has been edited over the years from the original as
>written by the apostles.....you decide...the following is a short excerpt
>of selected sections.

Edited over the years? :-)  Most modern translations of the bible are based
on the oldest manuscripts that are available, some of which are very ancient.
There are some "not so good" translations available however.  e.g. older
versions of the King James Bible were based on the earlier Latin Bible, but
more modern bibles, e.g. the Good News Bible, are based on even older
manuscripts than the Latin Bible.  Many highly trained biblical scholars
have pored over the alternative manuscripts over the years to choose what
was intended.  Where ambiguities still exist, you can get annotated versions
of the Bible that show all alternatives that have been proposed.

Go down to your local (non-fundamentalist) priest and have a chat to him
about bible translations.  I say non-fundamentalist, because the fundies
usually have an axe to grind, and don't always have the sound theological
background to make a good judgement.  (Many of the radical Christian sects
who are against the mainstream churches don't realise that some of their
"brilliant truths" were debated hundreds of years ago by biblical scholars
of much greater potential than themselves).

>First translation of the Aramaic script written by Judas Iscariot, the
>disciple of Jmmanuel (Jesus), discovered in 1963 in the burial cave of
>Jmmanuel.

Besides the fact that (I think) they aren't certain where the burial cave
was, Judas was a Jewish zealot (i.e. he wanted to overthrow Roman rule, by
force if necessary), and hardly a bible-writing type.  Oh, and changing the
I to the original J may make it LOOK more authentic, but it doesn't MAKE
it more authentic.  Just as the thees and thous in some bibles don't make
them any more authentic than any other bible.

>4:49  "Not until the time of space-traveling machines will the truth break
>through and gradually shake the false teaching that you are the son of god or
>Creation.

Would Judas have any concept of what a "machine" is (as we understand it),
let alone a "space-travelling" one? :-)

If you were to run this past any priest of a Christian church (even the
fundies) you'd be laughed at.  Not because of any "conspiracy" by the
churches, but just because it is a lot of unfounded crap.

Cheers,

Rhys.

+=====================+==================================+
||  Rhys Weatherley   |  The University of Queensland,  ||
||  rhys@cs.uq.oz.au  |  Australia.  G'day!!            ||
||       "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"         ||
+=====================+==================================+
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From: matlick@cpsin3.cps.msu.edu (Jeffrey S Matlick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: test
Message-ID: <1992Mar15.225756.6496@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
Date: 15 Mar 92 22:57:56 GMT
References: <1992Mar15.151716.1@vaxr.sscl.uwo.ca>
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this is a test too, sorry!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!apple!netcomsv!ctedge!djk
From: djk@Nitro.CtEdge.COM
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <5T3mHB2w164w@CtEdge.COM>
Date: 14 Mar 92 02:35:39 GMT
References: <92073.121819GHADSAL@auvm.american.edu>
Organization: NMS&Systems Engineering
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Guy Hadsall <GHADSAL@auvm.american.edu> writes:

>
> What is it ?
> Who is it ?
> Why are people afraid of its utterance ?

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! DONT EVEN _SAY_ THAT!

--- Daniel J. Karnes / WA6NDT --------------------------------------
--- NMS&Systems Engineering ----------------------------------------
--- Djk@Nitro.CtEdge.COM / ..CtEdge!Nitro!Djk ----------------------
-- 'innovative solutions for modern problems' ----------------------
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From: baker4@husc10.harvard.edu (David Baker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <BAKER4.92Mar15062357@husc10.harvard.edu>
Date: 15 Mar 92 11:23:57 GMT
References: <1992Mar1.082051.19903@beaver.cs.washington.edu><1992Mar10.004708.1434@tc.fluke.COM> <29BC10C7.6804@orion.oac.uci.edu>
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In-reply-to: cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu's message of 10 Mar 92 01:28:39 GMT

In article <29BC10C7.6804@orion.oac.uci.edu> cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

   Your own god loves you; my personal goddess loves
   me.  Through this convincing that something out there loves us no matter
   what, hopefully things will improve.

I have a question, admittedly somewhat off the topic: why does "this
convincing" need to take place in order for anything to happen?

Just asking.
David
--
      ---    Only those for whom no cream cheese has ever belched    ---
           ---    will reap the Coke bottles of yesteryear.    ---
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From: connolly@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (C. Ian Connolly)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.001111.942@cabot.balltown.cma.COM>
Date: 16 Mar 92 00:11:11 GMT
References: <1992Mar13.043523.18992@spdcc.com> <92073.121819GHADSAL@auvm.american.edu> <1992Mar14.043415.16579@cbnewsd.att.com>
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
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In article <1992Mar14.043415.16579@cbnewsd.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
>You must mean the MJ twelve. these guys are actual descendants of the
>star people from the planet Marij-juana from the horsehead galaxy.

No, no - you're thinking of the "Hosehead Nebula".
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From: morale@vccsouth13.its.rpi.edu (Enrique Morales)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <=-bt-rh@rpi.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 92 04:22:31 GMT
References: <9203121915.AA11631@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
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This all sounds good from the standpoint of someone who believes in all
those things mentioned in and of themselves ( ie believes in UFO's, ETI,
women's Lib., etc.) and I not condemning that, but why hasn't there even
been a _hint_ of any of it in the orthodox books. Surely, if it was such
a sin not to see woman as equal, there would have been some message somewhere
(I, myself, believe in equality across the board) to say so. I mean, just
because a large portion of people break a specific rule does not mean that
it will be erased. Such rules cannot be appealed.
I am very skeptical about the authenticity of these documents, or
at least of the accuracy of the translation. As someone who knows more
than one language, I can say that the same thing can be translated in
different ways to say different things. All you have to do is choose words
that convey certain meanings and use others literally. One example is how
some jokes do not translate unless you change some words to convey the over-
all idea. How else do you think so many different christian religions came
about? Each one had a different interpretation of the same bible.
So if you say that that it the true translation, I tell you that
that is his interpretation of what the manuscripts had inscribed in them.
I would rather have a dictionary and the original document( well,
of course, a copy in the same language) and let me make my own translation
and interpretation. I feel more comfortable this way.


This is just my oppinion...

--Enrique
aka juggler

===========================================
||    Opinnions are like assholes        ||
||         Everybody has one,            ||
||                and they all stink...  ||
===========================================
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From: 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 92 03:51:00 GMT
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In article <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> writes...
>In article <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca
>(Tom Hamill) says:
>>
>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>
>>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>
>>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>Satin draws mates bod.
>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
I set a weird time bomb.
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From: david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 92 06:16:00 GMT
References: <99669@bu.edu.bu.edu> <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>
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And then in <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>, 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said...
% In article <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> writes...
% >In article <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca
% >(Tom Hamill) says:
% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes:
% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes:
% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
% >>>>>
% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
% >>>>>
% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
% >>>>>
% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
% >>Satin draws mates bod.
% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
% I set a weird time bomb.
I shed a weird tie, Bob...


:-D
--
David Gundlach david@marie.stat.uga.edu
System Support and Integration david@rolf.stat.uga.edu
UGA Statistics david@castor.cs.uga.edu
University of Georgia david@groucho.dev.uga.edu
404/542-3289 or 404/542-5232 BITNET: statuga@uga

"I think, therefore I am wrong." -- me
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From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.075045.8103@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 92 07:50:45 GMT
References: <99669@bu.edu.bu.edu> <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>,<15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>
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In article <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>, 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes:
>In article <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> writes...
>>In article <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca
>>(Tom Hamill) says:
>>>
>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>I set a weird time bomb.
I ate a raw wan-ton frond.
-Chris L
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
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From: dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.082619.12731@cs.odu.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 92 08:26:19 GMT
References: <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu> <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu>
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In article <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu> david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes:
>And then in <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>, 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said...
>% In article <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> writes...
>% >In article <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca
>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes:
>% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes:
>% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>% I set a weird time bomb.
>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>
>
BOB!  LOOK EVERYONE, IT'S BOB!  LONG LIVE BOB!

--Aegis
"Oh, it's [pause] <--YOU--> Bob."
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!wasylik
From: wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Summary: My two cent's worth...
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.090405.27432@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 92 09:04:05 GMT
References: <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu> <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu>
Organization: Wierder & Wierder, Inc.
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In article <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu> david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes:
>And then in <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>, 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said...
>% In article <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> writes...
>% >In article <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca
>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes:
>% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes:
>% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>% I set a weird time bomb.
>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
I shot a wet teen babe.

Mw

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
: Mike Wasylik                    wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu :
:          *Always* cover your assets.                        :
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu!pgalley
From: pgalley@isis.cs.du.edu (Patrick galley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Info on Ummits
Message-ID: <1992Mar14.102656.23170@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Date: 14 Mar 92 10:26:56 GMT
Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Lines: 17


I've read several month ago some article in this newsgroup about the
Ummits and the J.P. Petit's book.
I would like to know if someone have ever heard something about others
group of peoples who have been contacted by the Ummits than in Spanien.
I woul to know if someone have other information source about this subject
and and what is the credibility rate of this subject.

thanks .
                                       Patrick

Patrick Galley
Student at the Engineering School of Geneva
galley@eig.unige.ch

Please , could you send me your answer directly by e-mail or trough
sci.skeptic, because I can't access to alt.alien.visitors easily.
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From: edw@uucp.ogi.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <01050133.ucfsvp@caligula.uucp>
Date: 13 Mar 92 16:16:48 GMT
Reply-To: caligula!edw (Edwin Howell Watkeys III)
Organization: Drexel University Guerrilla Networking Project
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In article <1992Mar13.120732.23793@tcom.stc.co.uk> (alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space), fsb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
> 3. As the sun shrinks so the outer planets cool and
>    we must move nearer the sun.
>
Is the sun shrinking? I was under the impression that it is expanding. *If*
it is shrinking now, it *will* eventually expand to approximately the asteroid
belt, right?

Aside from this, I know that the energy output of the sun has *increased*
as a function of time, so independent of any shrinking (if it does happen),
the planets will on average be warmer. On earth, this could be offset by fewer
greenhouse gases (oops!), but of course, we all know what's happening with
them...

Ed

---------
Ed Watkeys                         "...if you wish to strive for peace of
phlpa!caligula!edw@cs.widener.edu   soul and pleasure, then believe; if
Drexel University (Comp Sci)        you wish to be a devotee of truth,
Guerrilla Networking Project        then inquire...." -- Nietzsche
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From: boltj@reis53.alleg.edu (Jennifer Bolt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Keywords: Crap
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.162723.26408@pellns.alleg.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 92 16:27:23 GMT
References: <1992Mar9.122451.10847@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Sender: news@pellns.alleg.edu
Organization: Allegheny College
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Wake up, The universe is to big, and the distances to great for aliens to 
travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever.  So no 
aliens have probably come to Earth, although it is almost definite that 
life must exist elsewhere.  And as for channeling, lets not drag mystical 
make believe into the endeavors of science.  Maybe some aliens have come 
here, but why or how we may never know, but do you really expect people to 
believe some mystical entity is communicating with you ? Who are you 
Buckaroo Bonzi ?
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From: cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <29C4D197.17728@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 92 16:49:27 GMT
References: <1992Mar10.004708.1434@tc.fluke.COM> <29BC10C7.6804@orion.oac.uci.edu> <BAKER4.92Mar15062357@husc10.harvard.edu>
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Nntp-Posting-Host: hepxvt.ps.uci.edu

In article <BAKER4.92Mar15062357@husc10.harvard.edu> baker4@husc10.harvard.edu (David Baker) writes:
>In article <29BC10C7.6804@orion.oac.uci.edu> cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>   Your own god loves you; my personal goddess loves
>   me.  Through this convincing that something out there loves us no matter
>   what, hopefully things will improve.
>
>I have a question, admittedly somewhat off the topic: why does "this
>convincing" need to take place in order for anything to happen?
>
>Just asking.
>David

I suppose it's the typical old saw that if you don't love yourself or
think you're worthy of love, then it's hard for you to act in a loving
way toward other people and things.  We have to be comvinced as a group
that we are worth the effort it would take to make things better.

Regards and blessings,
Janis C.

P.S.:  What the HELL was your .sig?
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From: boltj@reis53.alleg.edu (Jennifer Bolt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Kuwait poodle profile
Keywords: poodle people
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.161851.26241@pellns.alleg.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 92 16:18:51 GMT
References: <19920314065841CSYSPCN@mvs.oac.ucla.edu>
Sender: news@pellns.alleg.edu
Organization: Allegheny College
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In article <19920314065841CSYSPCN@mvs.oac.ucla.edu> 
CSYSPCN@mvs.oac.ucla.edu (CSYSPCN) writes:
> Has anyone else noticed how much the photomicograph of a dust
> partical from the Kuwait oil fires published on p159 of the
> March 7'th Science News resembles a poodle?
>
> Is this evidence of LITTLE green men?

At first guess I would say the Russians were behind it, but because of 
their present situation, I would favor a Wellian Invasion Scenario
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umrutko0
From: umrutko0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.161805.7933@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Date: 16 Mar 92 16:18:05 GMT
References: <UdhvjHO00aw9E3ilM1@andrew.cmu.edu> <1992Mar9.134904.1444@crc.ac.uk> <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org> <1992Mar13.184601.946@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 149

In <1992Mar13.184601.946@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@engws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:

>In article <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org> dc@ais.org (David Daniels) writes:
>>
>>I remember seeing on TV, a segment of a show, which had two farmers (I
>>bleave) who admited to creating the circles. Then, later in the show, or on
>>a different show (can't recall) they had pretty solid proof that humans
>>could not have made these circles.. Does anyone know what any of this proof
>>was? The topic came up the other day and I can't quite remember anything
>>that they had said on the show..
>>

> 1) The soil becomes dehydrated, obviously from a large amount
> of heat used in creating the crop circle. The soil seems to lose
> it's ability to absorb water...when placed in water it does not
> turn into mud. I have seen this on TV in the early 80's when
> they discussed crop circles formed in the US.

Not consistently true.  Many sites are already dehydrated.  Other
sites, such as the Argonne circles, are in a swamp!

> 2) Humans are not perfect. They do not make things perfectly unless
> they put in lots of money, technology, planning, and effort. A
> farmer cannot make a crop circle as perfect as they are. British
> troops tried to but failed to make a perfect circle, although I guess
> if they were thousands of miles away it might make a perfect dot.

Obviously, you've never met a perfectionist. 

> 3) The stalks are never broken; they are merely arced over. When
> humans tried to make crop circles, the stalks ALWAYS break.

Again, not true.  It is possible to find broken stalks within =real=
crop circles, and it is possible to find bent stalks produced by
hoaxers.  We've look at such sites.
> 4) The stalks continue to grow.

Usually.  It depends on the growing season.  The Rossburn circles in
1977 were formed near harvest, and the stalks did not continue growing.
They remained on the ground, where they eventually got covered with
mold, and decayed in situ.


> 5) People have held stake outs, waiting for circles to be frormed.
> They claim that some circles are formed within 20 seconds of no-one
> looking at the site, usually at night or in a fog patch. No noises
> are heard. Observers are usually camped out on a hill top.

In a few areas of southern England, yes.  But in other areas with crop
circles, they hardly form as swiftly as that.


> 6) Numerous crop circles have appeared all over the world,
> concentrating on rural areas. All circles have the same traits as
> far as the soil is concerned. In some cases grass dies. This
> is evidence that there are few hoaxes. If all crop circles are
> hoaxes, then the perpetrator would have to:

> a) Have lots of money

> b) Have access to tarnsportation around the world,
> mostly North America and Western Europe


Not if he was only one of several hoaxers!  In England alone, there
were at least a half-dozen hoaxers exposed.  In North America, one was
found and others are suspected.  The sites are NOT as consistent as to
suggest that one person had to be responsible!  NAICCR has records of
300 UGMs over the past few years in North America, with varying traits.
The Phillips catalogue has many, many more.

Moral: Don't believe everything you read by all cerealogists!  Some
researchers know what they're doing, but others ...


> c) Have advanced technology

> d) Use heat or a device which produces lots of excess heat
> to bend the stalks

This hasn't been firmly established yet.  Leavengood's work has not
been widely distributed, and it certainly hasn't had a good look-over
by other plant physiologists and soil technologists.


> e) Have the intent of fooling people on a huge, massive
> scale

Easy enough to do.

> f) Have the ability to keep hidden while forming circles

Now, here's a problem.  We had one circle form here in Manitoba, right
next to the Trans Canada Highway and across from a trailer park.  Yet
no one saw anyone in the field!  Does this mean it's easy to make
circles, or does it show the mysterious nature of the phenomenon?


> g) Have the ability to plan designs that are complicated
> to design from the ground by humans...humans would make
> mistakes. Some crop circles have four circles of identicle
> sizes. Some have toruses. Some are symmetrical. Humans
> would make mistakes unless all parts were marked out by
> corner posts, line markings, etc.

As some hoaxers have admitted using.  The German students made some
pretty good circle complexes last year, if I remember right.

Andrews, Meaden and delgado have all been shown to have difficulty in
judging the authenticity of crop circles made by hoaxers.  Your
categorization of facts is based on their pervasive knowledge of circle
formations.

> h) Last of all, with the amount of effort that goes into
> this, there would have to be lots of human participants.
> One farmer cannot make 10 crop circles on his farm, let alone
> 100 farmers...

Why not?  As a test to try and duplicate some Canadian circles, we
spent a half-hour creating a =sister= circle.  Give us a few hours ...


> The evidence is there. The message is clear to me; however, I have
>no idea what any of them mean. Some people may figure out what they mean,
>and that will be the day...


Yes, the circles are mysterious, but the facts are not as cut-and-dried
as you make out.  I've been looking at UGMs for 15 years and the data
are not as consistent as is largely assumed.  In England, it is
suggested that 75% of the circles are hoaxes.  How does this jive with
all the soil and crop characteristics?

Believe it or not, I'm not a skeptic or a debunker!  I'm a Fortean
researcher who has looked at many, many cases and has looked for
supportive evidence that is truly convincing.  There are some good
circle cases, but nowhere near as many as is usually quoted.  many of
the complex formations are probably hoaxes.







--
Chris Rutkowski - umrutko0@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!vcsesu.enet.dec.com!cook
From: cook@vcsesu.enet.dec.com (The Cookster!)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Message-ID: <34290@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
Date: 16 Mar 92 20:35:12 GMT
References: <1992Mar9.122451.10847@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Mar16.162723.26408@pellns.alleg.edu>
Sender: news@nntpd.lkg.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 6


In article <1992Mar16.162723.26408@pellns.alleg.edu>, boltj@reis53.alleg.edu (Jennifer Bolt) writes...
>Wake up, The universe is to big, and the distances to great for aliens to 
>travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever.

What do they say about "assume"?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!Cadence.COM!jdm
From: jdm@Cadence.COM (Joe Mastroianni)
Newsgroups: alt.slack,alt.alien.visitors,aus.flame
Subject: Re: CRUCIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.185055.57@Cadence.COM>
Date: 16 Mar 92 18:50:55 GMT
References: <axolotl.700389606@syzygy>
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Lines: 30
Xref: ns-mx alt.slack:2578 alt.alien.visitors:4906

In article <axolotl.700389606@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:
>
>From a leaflet pinned up around here:
>                            _
>                          RAEL
>
>              CONTACTED BY EXTRATERRESTRIALS!
>
>            will give an exceptional conference
>
>             on Thursday 26th Match at 8.00 p.m.
>


 "And I'm hovering like a fly. Waiting for the winshield on the freeway."

  - Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (Is it the same guy?)



  Joe




--
Joe Mastroianni          AKA: AA6YD  AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA
Cadence Design Systems
Santa Clara Ca.          "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we
jdm@cadence.com           daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men " 
Path: ns-mx!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!black.clarku.edu!vax.clarku.edu!ndarvish
From: ndarvish@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Ra Material
Message-ID: <16MAR92.22095907@vax.clarku.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 92 22:09:59 GMT
Sender: news@black.clarku.edu (USENET News System)
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        Has anyone out there read the Ra  Material or anything else by its
authors? Anyone have any comments on it? A friend has been trying to get me to read it, and I want to know if it is worth my time.

                                Bruin.
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From: behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Original raw format MARS FACE frames at UFO-FTP-site
Summary: mars face
Keywords: mars face
Message-ID: <behse.700785596@tubue>
Date: 16 Mar 92 22:39:56 GMT
Sender: news@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de (News  Manager)
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Hi,
there are now the 2 original VIKING probes "MARS-FACE" frames at the UFO-FTP-
server at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17)
Look in /pub/incoming or /pub/ufo_and_space_pics

There are also readme-files (ASCII), which describe , how to convert the
raw data to GIF format !

There are also 2 new ufo-pics: gbreez2.gif and ufo.jpg !
have a look at it and post in alt.alien.visitors newsgroup, what You think
about it !

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de
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From: 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Summary: My two cent's worth...
Message-ID: <16MAR199213451607@vax.cc.williams.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 92 18:45:00 GMT
References: <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu> <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu> <1992Mar16.090405.27432@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
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In article <1992Mar16.090405.27432@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>, wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>In article <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu> david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes:
>>And then in <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>, 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said...
>>% In article <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> writes...
>>% >In article <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca
>>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>>% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes:
>>% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>% >>>>>
>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>% >>>>>
>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>% >>>>>
>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>I shot a wet teen babe.
Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!regina!hercules.cs.uregina.ca!bayko
From: bayko@hercules.cs.uregina.ca (john bayko)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Mars needs oxygen, Venus has too much.
Summary: Making both Mars and Venus habitable.
Keywords: Mars, Venus, Terraforming
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.211230.5352@regina.cs.uregina.ca>
Date: 16 Mar 92 21:12:30 GMT
References: <xr6fbmh1@cck.coventry.ac.uk> <203309@unix.cis.pitt.edu> <1992Mar13.120732.23793@tcom.stc.co.uk> <pgf.700504292@nasa15.usl.edu>
Sender: usenet@regina.cs.uregina.ca (Usenet Admin)
Reply-To: bayko@hercules.uregina.ca (john bayko)
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In article
     <pgf.700504292@nasa15.usl.edu>
     pgf@usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering)
writes:
>fsb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>
>>I find the subject of past life on Mars fascinating.
>>I pose the thoughts that:
>> [...]
>> 4. Venus will eventually be habitable as earth dies.
>
>Venus will only become habitable if someone makes it so. It would
>require a lot of energy to remove its atmosphere.

    If so, why not put it to good use? It may be interesting to speculate
on terraforming both Venus and Mars by transferring excess atmosphere from
one to the other.
    I recently read an article about verious terraforming methods that could
be used on Mars, such as generating CFCs to produce a greenhouse effect to
raise the temperature, extracting oxygen from the SO2 in the rocks, how
much nitrogen would be needed as a buffer to prevent oxygen toxicity...
    It mentioned the difficulty with trying to add material such as ice to
Mars by comets and such - mainly the fact that you'd need millions of trips
to get enough material. It'd certainly be out of the question to use
ordinary space ships to carry the atmosphere from Venus to Mars.
    A giagantic pressurised balloon could be used. In orbit around Venus, a
hose with an atmospheric scoop on the end could pump atmosphere into the
balloon, until the balloon were pressurised enough. The balloon needn't be in
geosyncronous orbit (around Venus, that's be a problem anyway), so the hose
would only be a few hundred km in length. As for propulsion, a few possi-
bilities include overfilling the balloon, then releasing the pressure for
propulsion, ionising the gas and accelerating it to produce an ion thrust
(with solar panels or nuclear reactors for the energy) or perhaps just
constructing a solar sail. It'd take years to travel to Mars, but
terraforming is an intergenerational project anyway.
    I wonder how much pressure such a balloon could hold if made of today's
high strength polymers, and what size it would be (with internal
reinforcements, I suppose).
    Of course, the materials for such a balloon could be harder to obtain
than an atmosphere for Mars, I suppose. Still, it's fun to speculate.

John Bayko.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!rice!uw-beaver!fluke!emery
From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.224559.4823@tc.fluke.COM>
Date: 16 Mar 92 22:45:59 GMT
References: <1992Mar1.082051.19903@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Mar10.004708.1434@tc.fluke.COM> <1992Mar10.204457.1045@visix.com>
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4911 alt.pagan:13532 alt.paranormal:4643 talk.religion.newage:9785

I wrote:

>> Before world peace is even possible, should not the issue of lack of
>> peace in the individual be addressed?  Lack of peace stems in the
>> heart of individuals and manifests to those around.  The introspective
>> question I see at hand is for the individual: how do I find peace?

Amanda Walker writes:

>Some people find it easier to work on external problems, some on
>internal ones.  This doesn't make either approach better than the other,
>though.  Just as you may find that introspection provides insight into
>external problems, others may find that external work provides insight
>into their own psyche.  A mixture of both is also quite possible.

One must ask where war, murder, violence, etc. starts.  Does it not start
in the heart of the instigator?  If there were peace in the hearts of
people, then we wouldn't have external problems.  There is something wrong
with the human heart.  Humans spend their lives trying to find peace.
One must ask why there is a lack of peace in the first place.  Something
has happened to the human race which has caused a loss of peace in the
heart.  This is one of many reasons why I see the gospel as a clear
explanation of this phenomena that other philosophies sidestep.  But my
Lord Jesus offers such eternal words, "Peace I leave with you; my peace I
give to you.  I do not give to you as the world gives.  Do not let your
hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

>> Amongst the waring that goes on in my soul, I have found where my source
>> of peace comes from.  I would invite one to investigate Romans 5:1 and
>> Ephesians 2:14 in the Holy Bible.
>
>Other good sources include the Quran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Tao Te
>Ching, the writings of Buckminster Fuller or J.R.R. Tolkien, ... meaning
>and insight depend upon the reader as much as the text being read.  It
>is the reader who makes a text holy.

Amanda, please share with the readers how your source of peace is found
in these writings.  Of particular interest, what have you found in the
Quran that brings you peace?  And how does it bring you peace?

>> May peace be upon all who read this.  Remember, there is one who loves
>> you and hold peace out in His hand.
>
>That one, however, has many names and wears many faces, sometimes
>simultaneously.  It is up to us to see the peace already within our
>hearts.

Amanda, if peace is already in everyone's heart, it sure has a way of
disguising itself.  Look around you.  Is the world around you full of
peace?

>> God bless,
>
>And give you wider insight,

Thank you.  I pray that He does.  And not only I, but yourself and all
those who are reading, whom He calls out to.

>Amanda Walker       amanda@visix.com

John Emery
emery@tc.fluke.COM
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!rice!uw-beaver!fluke!emery
From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.224926.5133@tc.fluke.COM>
Date: 16 Mar 92 22:49:26 GMT
References: <1992Mar1.082051.19903@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Mar10.004708.1434@tc.fluke.COM> <29BC10C7.6804@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Lines: 52
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4912 alt.pagan:13533 alt.paranormal:4644 talk.religion.newage:9786

I wrote:

>>Before world peace is even possible, should not the issue of lack of
>>peace in the individual be addressed?  Lack of peace stems in the
>>heart of individuals and manifests to those around.  The introspective
>>question I see at hand is for the individual: how do I find peace?

Janis Cortese writes:

>You find peace whatever way that works best for you.  I may find peace
>through a different means.

It has been the only way I have found peace.  I would say, Janis, not that
I choose this way because it worked best.  Rather, Jesus reached out to
me drew me to Himself.  Even though I resisted, He gently reminded me that
He loved me and had all I needed.  When I finally surrendered to Him, His
peace simply followed.

>>Amongst the waring that goes on in my soul, I have found where my source
>>of peace comes from.  I would invite one to investigate Romans 5:1 and
>>Ephesians 2:14 in the Holy Bible.
>
>I won't get into this.  All I *will* say is that the Bible also says
>that I am in subjugation to men.  How can I find peace in a book that
>says such things about me?

Please share what you are referring to, Janis.


>There certainly is.  Your own god loves you; my personal goddess loves
>me.  Through this convincing that something out there loves us no matter
>what, hopefully things will improve.
>
>We will, however, have to make our own peace.  There is no book or deity
>out there that will make things all better with a wave of a magic wand.
>WE have to do it -- all of it.  So let's roll up our sleeves and get to
>work, people.

Janis, if your personal goddess loves you, why doesn't this goddess give
you peace?  And how do you serve this goddess to show your love?

Jesus promises to roll up His sleeves and work in our life.  That's what
He's all about.  I look back over my life and have found without Him I
have had a pretty bad track record of bringing myself peace. 

>Regards and blessings,
>Janis C.

Take care,

John
emery@tc.fluke.COM
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!ukma!daffodil!nightshade.cs.odu.edu!dise
From: dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <1992Mar17.001338.21368@cs.odu.edu>
Date: 17 Mar 92 00:13:38 GMT
References: <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu> <1992Mar16.090405.27432@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> <16MAR199213451607@vax.cc.williams.edu>
Sender: news@cs.odu.edu (News File Owner)
Organization: DUBL-D Enterprises, Inc.
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Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2346 alt.religion.kibology:1192 alt.sex:58861 alt.alien.visitors:4913
Nntp-Posting-Host: nightshade.cs.odu.edu

In article <16MAR199213451607@vax.cc.williams.edu> 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes:
>In article <1992Mar16.090405.27432@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>, wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>In article <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu> david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>And then in <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>, 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>% In article <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> writes...
>>>% >In article <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca
>>>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>>>% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
I drove off a west end cliff
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!cc.weber.edu!jtan
From: jtan@cc.weber.edu (THE TAN MAN)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <16MAR199218013175@cc.weber.edu>
Date: 17 Mar 92 01:01:00 GMT
References: <1992Mar1.082051.19903@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Mar10.004708.1434@tc.fluke.COM> <1992Mar10.204457.1045@visix.com> <1992Mar16.224559.4823@tc.fluke.COM>
Sender: news@fcom.cc.utah.edu
Reply-To: JTAN@cc.weber.edu
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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Mar16.224559.4823@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM (John
Emery) writes...
>in the heart of the instigator?  If there were peace in the hearts of
>people, then we wouldn't have external problems.  There is something wrong

Not necessarily.  If we had Peace AND non-Peace in our hearts,
then it would be possible for us to have external problems because
the two are at odds with each other, and one must win out, even if
only temporarily.  As long as it's the non-Peace side that is in
control, we will have external problems.

Highest Love and Peace

The Tan Man
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!apple!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars needs oxygen, Venus has too much.
Keywords: Mars, Venus, Terraforming
Message-ID: <1l8hx#bpayner@netcom.com>
Date: 17 Mar 92 00:42:59 GMT
References: <1992Mar13.120732.23793@tcom.stc.co.uk> <pgf.700504292@nasa15.usl.edu> <1992Mar16.211230.5352@regina.cs.uregina.ca>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 67
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4915 sci.space:27963

In article <1992Mar16.211230.5352@regina.cs.uregina.ca> bayko@hercules.uregina.ca (john bayko) writes:
>In article
>     <pgf.700504292@nasa15.usl.edu>
>     pgf@usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering)
>writes:
>>fsb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>>
>>>I find the subject of past life on Mars fascinating.
>>>I pose the thoughts that:
>>> [...]
>>> 4. Venus will eventually be habitable as earth dies.
>>
>>Venus will only become habitable if someone makes it so. It would
>>require a lot of energy to remove its atmosphere.
>
>    If so, why not put it to good use? It may be interesting to speculate
>on terraforming both Venus and Mars by transferring excess atmosphere from
>one to the other.
>    I recently read an article about verious terraforming methods that could
>be used on Mars, such as generating CFCs to produce a greenhouse effect to

CFC's are at best a poor greenhouse gas. Why not go for something
useful like CO2?

>raise the temperature, extracting oxygen from the SO2 in the rocks, how

This is not a trivial task.

>much nitrogen would be needed as a buffer to prevent oxygen toxicity...
>    It mentioned the difficulty with trying to add material such as ice to
>Mars by comets and such - mainly the fact that you'd need millions of trips
>to get enough material. It'd certainly be out of the question to use
>ordinary space ships to carry the atmosphere from Venus to Mars.
>    A giagantic pressurised balloon could be used. In orbit around Venus, a
>hose with an atmospheric scoop on the end could pump atmosphere into the
>balloon, until the balloon were pressurised enough. The balloon needn't be in
>geosyncronous orbit (around Venus, that's be a problem anyway), so the hose
>would only be a few hundred km in length. As for propulsion, a few possi-
>bilities include overfilling the balloon, then releasing the pressure for
>propulsion, ionising the gas and accelerating it to produce an ion thrust
>(with solar panels or nuclear reactors for the energy) or perhaps just
>constructing a solar sail. It'd take years to travel to Mars, but

You may find such a balloon to flimsy for any standard propulsions, and
it wouldhave a huge sail area as it is. I suspect that the solar wind
would not send it in the direction you wished it to go.

>terraforming is an intergenerational project anyway.
>    I wonder how much pressure such a balloon could hold if made of today's
>high strength polymers, and what size it would be (with internal
>reinforcements, I suppose).

With a hard vacuum outside, it will be subject to huge pressures. In fact,
the pump to fill it should be quite an undertaking all by itself.

>    Of course, the materials for such a balloon could be harder to obtain
>than an atmosphere for Mars, I suppose. Still, it's fun to speculate.
>
>John Bayko.


Interesting indeed.


Rich

payner@netcom.com
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!psuvax1!rutgers!att!att!fang!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <1992Mar16.202028.17443@bilver.uucp>
Date: 16 Mar 92 20:20:28 GMT
References: <9203121915.AA11631@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> <!_5hhysheaffer@netcom.com>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 51

In article <!_5hhysheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <9203121915.AA11631@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas x5363) writes:
>>I was sent this by a friend to post.  I find it challanging and believeable
>>in light of how the bible has been edited over the years from the original as
>>written by the apostles.....you decide...the following is a short excerpt
>>
>>First translation of the Aramaic script written by Judas Iscariot, the
>>disciple of Jmmanuel (Jesus), discovered in 1963 in the burial cave of
>>Jmmanuel.
>>
>>Translated into German by Isa Rashid and Eduard Meier, and translated into
>>English by Julie Ziegler and B. L. Greene.
>>
>Eduard "Billy" Meier of Switzerland is the perpetrator of the notorious
>"UFOs from the Pleiades" hoax.

So tell us oh learned and wise Govt agent Shaeffer..just HOW did Billy "hoax"
the Pleiadian craft?

>
>
>>1:2   Semjasa, the celestial son and guardian angel of god, the great ruler of
>>the distant travelers who traversed the expanse of the universe, together with
>>a terrestrial woman, begot Adam, the father of the white human race.
>
>"Semjase" is the name of Meier's extraterrestrial girlfriend.
>--
>

Correction oh wise and learned sage of the would-be NSA boot-licker set..

Semjase=Pleiadian female
Semjasa=her FATHER


 
>        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
> 
> Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
>
>               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
>      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992

Is this .sig PC? was it approved by your "handlers"?


--
-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?
Internet: dona@bilver.uucp  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"
Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!c8929469
From: c8929469@cc.newcastle.edu.au (stu)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars and Venus (The problems associated with terraforming)
Message-ID: <1992Mar17.132153.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au>
Date: 17 Mar 92 03:21:53 GMT
References: <xr6fbmh1@cck.coventry.ac.uk> <203309@unix.cis.pitt.edu> <1992Mar13.120732.23793@tcom.stc.co.uk> <pgf.700504292@nasa15.usl.edu> <1992Mar16.211230.5352@regina.cs.uregina.ca>
Sender: news@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
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[Various stuff about venus and mars' atmospheres deleted]

>     If so, why not put it to good use? It may be interesting to speculate
> on terraforming both Venus and Mars by transferring excess atmosphere from
> one to the other.

Long and arduous process, it would be more effective to work out some sort of
common chemical reaction to convert the atmosphere on-site.

>     I recently read an article about verious terraforming methods that could
> be used on Mars, such as generating CFCs to produce a greenhouse effect to
> raise the temperature, extracting oxygen from the SO2 in the rocks, how
> much nitrogen would be needed as a buffer to prevent oxygen toxicity...
>     It mentioned the difficulty with trying to add material such as ice to
> Mars by comets and such - mainly the fact that you'd need millions of trips
> to get enough material. It'd certainly be out of the question to use
> ordinary space ships to carry the atmosphere from Venus to Mars.

That's right, Unless you want to ship those chemicals from a closer planet
like earth (oh no!) it's going to be too much effort for the results.

>     A giagantic pressurised balloon could be used. In orbit around Venus, a
> hose with an atmospheric scoop on the end could pump atmosphere into the
> balloon, until the balloon were pressurised enough. The balloon needn't be in
> geosyncronous orbit (around Venus, that's be a problem anyway), so the hose
> would only be a few hundred km in length. As for propulsion, a few possi-
> bilities include overfilling the balloon, then releasing the pressure for
> propulsion, ionising the gas and accelerating it to produce an ion thrust
> (with solar panels or nuclear reactors for the energy) or perhaps just
> constructing a solar sail. It'd take years to travel to Mars, but
> terraforming is an intergenerational project anyway.
>     I wonder how much pressure such a balloon could hold if made of today's
> high strength polymers, and what size it would be (with internal
> reinforcements, I suppose).

That would have to be one tough balloon to withstand the near vaccum of space
without rupturing, It might be better to use pressurised cylinders (very big
ones mind you) the siphon Idea sounds like a good one.

>     Of course, the materials for such a balloon could be harder to obtain
> than an atmosphere for Mars, I suppose. Still, it's fun to speculate.
>
> John Bayko.

There is one final problem that nobody seems to have mentioned.  Venus has a
counter-rotative orbit (unique among the rest of the planets in our system)
in which the direction of axial rotation is the same as the orbital rotation.
This means that the days on venus are approximately 250 earth-days long!!!
The planet surface would be baked under continual sunlight for around 2/3
of an earth-year.  Not to mention the nights!!! it's worse than the south
pole on this planet...

Mars however isn't such a problem, its the atmospheric pressure.  Due to the
small size of mars, the atmosphere would have to be more highly concentrated
per cubic kilometer than earths to achieve a similar air pressure reading to
that of earth.  It would be like a very high altitude earth!

stu :)
--
"L'amour qui nous reunita fait tout notre bonheur."

send discourse to c8929469@cc.newcastle.edu.au
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!linac!unixhub!slacvm!bkf
From: BKF@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Gods of Eden
Message-ID: <92076.193835BKF@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Date: 17 Mar 92 03:38:35 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Lines: 5

I highly recommend, THE GODS OF EDEN by William Bramley, published in
1990 by Dahlin Family Press.  It deals with UFOs in history - from the
Garden of Eden and Egypt to the Black Plague (which spawned the Grim
Reaper image) to modern times.  An excellently researched and thought
provoking work.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <312@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 17 Mar 92 05:14:05 GMT
References: <9203121915.AA11631@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> <!_5hhysheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Mar16.202028.17443@bilver.uucp>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 30


?dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:
?>In article <!_5hhysheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
?>>In article <9203121915.AA11631@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas x5363) writes:
?>>>
?>>>Translated into German by Isa Rashid and Eduard Meier, and translated into
?>>>English by Julie Ziegler and B. L. Greene.
?>>>
?>>Eduard "Billy" Meier of Switzerland is the perpetrator of the notorious
?>>"UFOs from the Pleiades" hoax.
?>
?>So tell us oh learned and wise Govt agent Shaeffer..just HOW did Billy "hoax"
?>the Pleiadian craft?

Thats what I would like to know... All these so called professional
video technowizards with there whinning about being a hoax. Proof it!
I know! Billy is really `The Lawnmower Man' and he did it all in Virtual
Reality. :-))) Really!!! Its all `Virtual Reality' on Film. Mind over matter
thats why you couldn't see any fishing line :-).

Steve
--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!apple!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars and Venus (The problems associated with terraforming)
Message-ID: <lw8h4dkpayner@netcom.com>
Date: 17 Mar 92 06:11:47 GMT
References: <pgf.700504292@nasa15.usl.edu> <1992Mar16.211230.5352@regina.cs.uregina.ca> <1992Mar17.132153.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 38
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4920 sci.space:27973

In article <1992Mar17.132153.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> c8929469@cc.newcastle.edu.au (stu) writes:
>[Various stuff about venus and mars' atmospheres deleted]
>
{even more stuff deleted, really! :^}

>There is one final problem that nobody seems to have mentioned.  Venus has a
>counter-rotative orbit (unique among the rest of the planets in our system)
>in which the direction of axial rotation is the same as the orbital rotation.
>This means that the days on venus are approximately 250 earth-days long!!!
>The planet surface would be baked under continual sunlight for around 2/3
>of an earth-year.  Not to mention the nights!!! it's worse than the south
>pole on this planet...

While this is an interesting observation, I am not sure where the problem
lies. Unless the planet in in synchronous rotation with the sattelite, there
will be friction, and some compensation would be required to keep the
gas colletor in orbit. It would take more (how much more is not clear)
compensation with venus, but the problem has not changed. I agree with your
earlier observation, better to work with what is there. The energy requirements
for moving stuff is outrageous, along with the collection problems.

>Mars however isn't such a problem, its the atmospheric pressure.  Due to the
>small size of mars, the atmosphere would have to be more highly concentrated
>per cubic kilometer than earths to achieve a similar air pressure reading to
>that of earth.  It would be like a very high altitude earth!

No, Mars needs more atmosphere, the proposal was not to collect from there,
but to move to there.
>
>stu :)
>--
>"L'amour qui nous reunita fait tout notre bonheur."
>
>send discourse to c8929469@cc.newcastle.edu.au

Rich

payner@netcom.com
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From: fsb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Frank Stuart Brown)
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Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
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Date: 17 Mar 92 08:14:20 GMT
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Thanks for all the mail. I should have said billions, and yes I know
the sun will become a red giant and swallow up the inner planets, but
isn't it going to shrink before it expands?

CLAATU BARADA NICTO


--
"On the plains of hesitation lie the bones of countless millions, of those
who stopped to view their success, and while resting - died!"
<fsb%antelope.tcom.stc.co.uk@stl.stc.co.uk>  ||  !mcsun!ukc!stc!fsb
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