UFO/Alien message board part 4

Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10953 alt.alien.visitors:7572 sci.skeptic:27904
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62797@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:59:35 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Lines: 11

---to create this link with all of you in a stronger more personal way.
  We are offering you this opportunity ot create a happening on Earth
of a magnitude that will change the destiny of man away from that of
materialism and aggression and propel him into his next step of evolution
in an easy way.  This can be accomplihsed, my brothers and sisters of
Earth, with the interlinking energies of the higher frequencies, the
interstellar commands, and collective mankind. Man's continued
insensitivity to the way he treats his fellow man and Mother Earth has
the potential to create a cataclysm of a magnitude that can literally
shift the poles of Earth and eliminated life as you know it.
  We wish to offer this helping hand to you, our brothers and sisters--
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10954 alt.alien.visitors:7573 sci.skeptic:27905
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62798@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 08:07:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Lines: 9

---of Earth, by offering to land openly on your Earth by invitaion and
sharing the knowledge we have gained with you. Then you too may live and
BE IN LOVE, PEACE, HARMONY AND BROTHERHOOD together with all of Creation,
linked to us and beyond to the Creator God.
  I am Astar, your star brother of the planet Venus working with Earth
to assist in Her transformation into the higher frequencies of understanding
known as the higher dimensions, or the GOLDEN AGE of Man. So be it Adonai,
adonai, adonai. Messager, Jean Peterson.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10956 alt.alien.visitors:7574 sci.skeptic:27907
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!news.bbn.com!ingria
From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <l737gmINNhsk@news.bbn.com>
Date: 25 Jul 92 18:31:50 GMT
References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <ueRaoB6w164w@uuisis.isis.org> <62762@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul25.040417.22282@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM
Lines: 11
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com's message of Sat, 25 Jul 1992 04:04:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.040417.22282@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:

   P.S. No thanks on the astral offer. If you don't even know who
   you are traveling with, you could run into some astral thugs,
   unless of course thugs don't travel astral.

``This is the Mind Spider, checking in!''
-- Fritz Leiber, ``The Mind Spider''

-30-
Bob
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!mach4!kfisher3
From: kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U)
Subject: Kill file
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.184044.1606@mach4.wlu.ca>
Summary: kill john winston
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 18:40:44 GMT
Keywords: kill, john winston
Lines: 14

HEO:
Can someone tell me how to set up my kill file so I don't have to
read John_-_Winston's IDIOT posts anymore?  He's really getting annoying,
especially when he continually violates nettiquitte by BLATANTLY IGNORING
everyone's requests that he use e-mail for his personal babble.


Mucho appreciated,

--
Kevin Fisher      UUCP:kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca
Physics & Computing '92 at WLU  - - "I can't handle it!"

"Come on and dim the lights;  Switch on the strobe:
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!mach4!kfisher3
From: kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U)
Subject: Adamski??
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.185603.2889@mach4.wlu.ca>
Summary: bogus or true?
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 18:56:03 GMT
Keywords: george,adamski
Lines: 16

Hello all:

Does anyone know anything about one George Adamski, who seemingly wrote
several books about alien visitors he had contact with?
The only reason  I bring him up is because his description of alien life is
so different from the common (Grey) description.

anks,



--
Kevin Fisher      UUCP:kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca
Physics & Computing '92 at WLU  - - "I can't handle it!"

"Come on and dim the lights;  Switch on the strobe:
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10958 alt.alien.visitors:7578 sci.skeptic:27908
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!utrcu1!infnews!heksterb
From: heksterb@cs.utwente.nl (Ben Hekster)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.204202.18317@cs.utwente.nl>
Followup-To: sci.skeptic
Sender: usenet@cs.utwente.nl
Nntp-Posting-Host: utis96
Organization: University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science
References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <62796@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:42:02 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <62796@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Fellow Earth Travellers: I will now put down the second part of the
>information that was sent to me by the lady that founded the Antahkarana
>[&c., &c.]

As much an accomplishment as interstellar subhyperastral travelling may
be, the Antahkaranians cannot be *that* highly advanced--  their e-mail
messages always seems to be limited to exactly one screenful.  Perhaps
their terminal emulators don't implement scrolling..?  I know, I bet
they still use those old storage-tube displays, heh, heh.

Just imagine what an absolute *pain* it would be to mail an
Ant'an binaries-- having to split your uuencoded file into 20-line
chunks <shudder>.  Remind me *never* to let one of these guys beta-test
for me!  On the other hand, I suppose that by now they must have
developed some pretty neat shell scripts to do this sort of stuff.

They *do* use UNIX, don't they, John?

--
Ben `Hackster' Hekster | "He bides his time and thinks,
heksterb@cs.utwente.nl |  'There must be more to life than this!'"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!dxcern!dscomsa.desy.de!vxdesy.desy.de!silverstein
From: silverstein@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.221109.1@vxdesy.desy.de>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 40
Sender: news@dscomsf.desy.de (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: vxdsya.desy.de
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <aero.711820272@titan> <7696@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 22:11:09 GMT

In article <7696@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:
> Idle speculation from someone whose ignorance
> of physics is massive (pun intended):
>
> Does the influence of gravity act instantaneously?  Suppose you had
> a mass detector of some sort, and you were detecting mass X at
> a distance of say, 1 LY.  If that mass were moved suddenly, wouldn't
> your mass detector note the movement instantly?  What glaring blunder
> have I committed?

Gravity wave detectors have been built to detect such events as supernovae
over long distances, but as far as I am aware, no positive measurements have
been made yet (none of them were turned on when SN1987A was observed).
However, it is believed that the gravitational force is transmitted at light
speed, and not instantaneously.

>
> Bonus Round related question:
>
> Do two masses always interact gravitationally, regardless of the
> distance between them?  I mean "at all", not "negligible". 
>

Yes, the gravitational force, like the electromagnetic force, is said to have
an "infinite" range, which means that its effect is exactly zero only at an
infinite separation.

> I know, there are more appropriate forums for this stuff, but hey,
> I'm not going to parade my ignorance in front of the _smart_guys_.
>
> --
> DISCLAIMER:                                              | Bob Mitchell
> "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu
> "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
> "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy         | 1987 VT700c

Sam Silverstein
UW Madison department of Physics
_NOT_ to be confused with UW Eau Claire, home of physicist ROBERT MCELWAINE!
(geez...I kinda miss him in a way...;-)
Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:27912 alt.alien.visitors:7580
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.193400.14718@rosevax.rosemount.com>
Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
References: <1992Jul22.210032.18308@pony.Ingres.COM>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:34:00 GMT
Lines: 24

kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) writes:
: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
: >write The Third Eye, a book that I love.  Lobsang had an Englishman's
: >body that was never in Tibet.  He had been living as a Tibetian monk
: >for many years then he made a switch with an Englishman who was ready to
: >pass on anyway.
:
: Oh good god, John, you get more rabid by the month!
:
: On the other hand, you're almost as entertaining as scanning the tabloid
: headlines in the supermarket checkouts.  Keep it up!
:

Ah, but the tabloids have PICTURES!  John will never be able to
compete with the darling pictures of Nessie's baby, or the flying
saucer sitting on the flight deck of the Nimitz that the Weekly World
News had.  Or is it the World Weekly News?  Either way it's a great
paper.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I want to so HAPPY, the
Rosemount Inc.                                |VEINS in my neck STAND OUT!!
                                              |
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10959 alt.alien.visitors:7581 sci.skeptic:27914
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.211253.17448@rosevax.rosemount.com>
Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
References: <62755@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:12:53 GMT
Lines: 15

John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
: Dear Doug: It sounds like you have a clear alert mind and your not
: afraid to stand out from the other people and say what you think.
: John Winston.

Brilliant.  Sounds like one of those statements you hear from
astrologers with which at least 95% of the population will agree.

(I'm not implying that the statement is false in Doug's case.)

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I am a jelly donut.  I
Rosemount Inc.                                |am a jelly donut.
                                              |
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10960 alt.alien.visitors:7582 sci.skeptic:27918
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!bu.edu!wang!news
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <2324@israel.nysernet.org>
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:50:06 GMT
References: <09o7NB1w164w@uuisis.isis.org> <25cm61c@lynx.unm.edu><62477@cup.portal.com>   <1992Jul20.233307.21535@hobbes.kzoo.edu><62557@cup.portal.com> <62580@cup.portal.com>
Sender: news@wang.com
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Lines: 11

In <62580@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:

    Dear Dan: Your pretty cotton picking funny. Sounds like your having
    a good laugh out of all of this.

I hope we all are.
--
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     Being a BALD HERO is almost as FESTIVE as a TATTOOED
 |warren@      KNOCKWURST.
/ nysernet.org
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan
From: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Stealth Manuscript
Message-ID: <omDgoB1w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 21:40:47 CST
References: <1992Jul24.083433.12878@news.unomaha.edu>
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 29

> "Booksellers are grinding their teeth over several big Ross Perot books
> that have been cancelled on the eve of publication.  BUT SOMETHING BIGGER
> MAY BE COMING SOON (my emphasis).  Putnam is preparing to ship more than
> 100,000 copies of a supersecret book in late August.  The publisher is
> keeping both the subject and the author completely confidential.  According
> to buyers for the major chains, Putnam executives have been whispering that
> it is a biography of a major Washington official that contains information
> so explosive it could cause his or her resignation.  This has prompted a
> guessing game within the industry, but Putnam executives say only
> 'No Comment.'"
> Anticipation will antagonize me until late August!  I certainly hope that
> this will not turn out to be hoax.

Sounds interesting, but do you think it involves UFO/Aliens?  When it
comes out PLEASE leave some information on here.  Even it dosen't involve
UFOs, it could be a good book (if it's true).

                         ______________                             
   \ /                  //   ______   \\              :   .       .     :
   -O-       __________/________________\__________    :T i t a n i u m:
   / \    __//                                    \\__  : K n i g h t :
         /.      .      .      .      .      .      . \  :           :
         \____________________________________________/
  //              / /        / --- \       \ \     
\X/ AMIGA       _/_/_      _/ ----- \_     _\_\_       alt.alien.visitors

;--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10961 alt.alien.visitors:7584 sci.skeptic:27920
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!hillman
From: hillman@carina.unm.edu (Dan Hillman)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <fmkmg3c@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 09:46:56 GMT
Organization: Holy Order of Quadra 950 Lust
Lines: 23

In article <62580@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Dan: Your pretty cotton picking funny. Sounds like your having
>a good laugh out of all of this.
>John Winston.

Dear John,

Your (sic) right; I fudge my Levis in glee every time I see one of
you're (sic) posts.

I am amazed that fully half of the traffic of this newsgroup is comprised
of your three-line messages ("I'm having an astral wank, everybody!"),
empty posts (" "), and one-screen text dumps.

Call me a skeptic, but I would think an intelligent life form who
wanted information distributed would get in touch with someone who had
a clue.

--
| _   ;/                                                          Dan Hillman
|(")_/   "I'm right and you're not."                   hillman@carina.unm.edu
|~~/                                                 University of New Mexico
|~/                                               Land of Fucking Enchantment
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7585 sci.skeptic:27921
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <62839@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 05:04:00 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com>
  <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <aero.711820272@titan>
  <7696@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> <1992Jul25.221109.1@vxdesy.desy.de>
Lines: 34

If anyone else is receiving insulting email messages from:

Greg Aicklen <aicklen@utdallas.edu>
Research Engineering Associate
Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science
University of Texas at Dallas

then feel welcome to respond with my reply (enclosed) for which I relinquish
all copyrights and place into the public domain for YOUR use as a reply.

Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]

---------- begin enclosure

[bad language follows; hit 'n' now if neccessary; tit for tat]


"One should never assess a situation from the end of a conversation."

And one shouldn't foam at the mouth without a clear understanding of what's
transpired before YOUR transgression.

And so what is YOUR problem?  You jump in without any background (since you
haven't established your veracity or credentials) or having apparently read
any of the preceding OR following articles.  Reminds me of all the pseudo-
/pop-"scientists" who have their heads so far up their asshole they cannot
see beyond their own shit: yes, this means YOU.

Suggest you tone down your demeanor, become more civil, and get a life.

No-one is forcing you to read the newsgroup; go back to alt.sex and beat
your meat on your keyboard if that's how you get your jollies.

---------- end enclosure
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!dingbat
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Subject: Re: Boy or Girl  (was Re: e: Ley Lines)
Cc: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 14:31:55 +0000
Message-ID: <memo.542686@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk
Lines: 15

In-Reply-To:  John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com

[Mysterious stone walls]

> My sources of information
> say that they are about 22,000 or more years old.


How is that date derived ?  Do you have any more details on these
walls (I've not heard of them before, but then I am on another
continent !) Are they literally continuous walls, or are they lines
of separate stones ?  Are there any signs of deliberate stone-masonry
on them ?

          Andy Dingley    dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!tulane!ukma!hsdndev!dartvax!Frederick.A.Ringwald
From: Frederick.A.Ringwald@dartmouth.edu (Frederick A. Ringwald)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black (mib)
Message-ID: <1992Jul26.151223.19673@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Date: 26 Jul 92 15:12:23 GMT
References: <139288.2A6C8CC9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> 
 <1992Jul22.183227.6227@mprgate.mpr.ca>
Sender: news@dartvax.dartmouth.edu (The News Manager)
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Lines: 11

In article <1992Jul22.183227.6227@mprgate.mpr.ca>
spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes:

> If the Belgian government thought the UFOs were some kind of secret
> American aircraft being tested (illegally) over their country, I would
> expect them to "threaten" the Americans by allowing the *public* release
> of *any* information they find out about the objects.

But, such a threat would be much more effective if made in secret,
i.e., those concerned in the U.S. Government would hear about it, but
you wouldn't, as this itslef would be public disclosure!
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!mach4!kfisher3
From: kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U)
Subject: alt.alien.visitors crossposts
Message-ID: <1992Jul26.165855.5157@mach4.wlu.ca>
Summary: default crossposters
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 16:58:55 GMT
Keywords: new.age
Lines: 17

I have yet another question:

Why is it these new.age people INSIST on crossposting by default with
alt.alien.visitors?  I don't see the connection between the silly
hindu-buddhist-guru mix and the possibility of extra-terrestrial life, and I
refuse to believe any of the garbage our friend JW keeps posting about
"prime directives" and "space councils" and the like.

Just a question from someone tired of tabloid-minded people...



--
Kevin Fisher      UUCP:kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca
Physics & Computing '92 at WLU  - - "I can't handle it!"

"Come on and dim the lights;  Switch on the strobe:
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7589 sci.skeptic:27925
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken
Message-ID: <1992Jul26.202618.26209@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> <62705@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 20:26:18 GMT
Lines: 71

In article <62705@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part:
|> In article <1992Jul23.170148.919@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
|> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
|>
|> >In article <62658@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes
|>  in part:
|> >|>[...]
|> >|> Some actual (and identifiable) dinosaur footprints were present in the rock
|> ,
|> >|> along with what appeared to me (and these were the ones labelled as "unknow
|> n")
|> >|> to be the tracks of a military jeep.  Two parallel tracks with about a 5 fo
|> ot
|> >|> separation (for some 15 feet, in the slab fragment) which resembled today's
|> >|> high-tech all-weather tire-treads.  Tracks which were made millions of year
|> s
|> >|> ago. Incredible; I'll never forget that sight; and when I uttered that thou
|> ght
|> >|> out loud (I was only about 8 years old then), everyone turned around and
|> >|> looked at me strangely, yet no-one made any comments or smiled.  [ See belo
|> w ]
|> >
|> >Incredible is the word.  This would be a lot harder to understand if I
|> >hadn't read the classic science fiction story of that time from which
|> >this little joke was taken.
|>
|> If it's a joke, then it's one on me [for I was there].
|>
|> However, I'm not going to "defend" my remembrance since nearly 40 years have
|> elapsed (this was about 1952-1953; we lived in the area from 1951 to 1956).
|>
|> And at that (original) time I was in the company of my Dad who desired to
|> tour the entire Museum in one day (he was like that; and the museum occupied
|> an entire city block [it was HUGE]).
|>
|> Next time I'm in DC, I'll make a point to re-visit that Smithsonian exhibit
|> and attempt to collect more info; this cannot be until at least mid-1993.
|>
|> One correspondent commented that perhaps the tracks were those of amphibians'
|> flippers.  'Spossible (and more plausible!)  All I stated was that the tracks
|> bore a resemblance to tire tracks, NOT that they were tire tracks!  :-)
|>
|> As for science-fiction, could not the author have seen the same exhibit which
|> stimulated HIS story?  Have you a reference [title, author, etc.]?
|>
|> Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]

The idea appeared in the story "Times Arrow" by Arthur C. Clarke in 1952. 
The copy I have is in a the collection "Reach for Tomorrow", with the date
1956.  In the preface there is the following interesting comment:

  "Times Arrow" is an example of how hard it is for the science-fiction
  writer to keep ahead of fact.  The quite--at the time the story was
  written--imaginary discovery described in the tale now actually exists,
  and may be seen in the New York Natural History Museum.  I think it most
  unlikely that the rest of the story will bome true . . . .

Clearly, ACC made this up, and just about the right time for the museum
to obtain one.  ACC's comments open the question of whether there were
two (or even more) copies of this unique artifact, which materialized
just after he invented it!  Time travel is a non-obvious business, even
in reality. :-)

Thanks to those who set me on the track of this reference.  My ACC
books are getting pretty dusty and lonely deep in the archives, a fate
that they surely do not deserve.

--
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.config:9028 alt.alien.visitors:7590 alt.paranormal:5497
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors
Followup-To: alt.config
Date: 27 Jul 1992 04:34:36 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 44
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <l76v6sINNfbo@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
References: <l6uu9rINN8qf@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

In article l6uu9rINN8qf@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM, jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes:
>That leaves one other possibility, using two 2nd-level names:
>
>alt.alien.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments
>alt.alien.meetings - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
>alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
>alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations
>alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind

Since this posting responses suggest that it would be less disruptive without
much loss of meaning if we left alt.alien.meetings named alt.alien.visitors.
There is merit to this suggestion and I am prepared to accept it.

It also occurred to me that these third-level names are not exclusive, so that
there should be a "misc" catchall for each. Thus, we would have

alt.alien.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments
alt.alien.visitors - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
alt.alien.misc - subjects not included in above
alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations
alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
alt.anomaly.misc - subjects not included in above

It was suggested that "paranormal" be used in place of "anomaly" in the above,
but that group has become dominated by new-age types.

If someone were of a mind to break out alt.paranormal, however, I would suggest

alt.paranormal.esp - telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition, telekinesis
alt.paranormal.dead - contact with the dead, ghosts, reincarnation
alt.paranormal.creature - strange creatures, such as bigfoot, yeti
alt.paranormal.missing - strange disappearances
alt.paranormal.reveal - revealed wisdom, impending momentous events
alt.paranormal.injury - strange injuries, such as spontaneous combustion
alt.paranormal.misc - subjects not included in above

---

jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!usage!syacus!steven
From: steven@syacus.acus.oz.au (Steven Malikoff)
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Message-ID: <1992Jul26.232501.29746@syacus.acus.oz.au>
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
References: <1992Jul23.144101.29930@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 23:25:01 GMT
Lines: 22

rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes:
: I also have a question for you folks DOWN UNDER.(That's AUSTRAILIA for
: those of you who don't know where down under is.) I recall that about 3-4
: years ago that
: an egg shaped craft buzzed a family in a car on some highway down there. As
: I recall there was some material released by the craft & it was retrieved
: by the occupants of the vehicle. The material was brought in for analysis &
: that was the last I ever heard about it. I think a fishing boat offshore
: also reported
: seeing the craft about an hour later. There was quite a bit of news on the
: incident back then, but as most  news stories go , the press never really
: follows up.

If the "incident" you refer to was the ufo that buzzed a car driving across
the Simpson desert (could have been the Nullarbor) then sorry, that turned
out to be a hoax. I remember just after, an ad appeared in the paper for
something or other (might have been car insurance?) featuring a ufo landing
on a car, with the caption "This wouldn't have happened if you'd had <blah
blah blah>".

Steve.
steven@syacus.acus.oz.au
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!cs.mu.OZ.AU!munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU!curmi
From: curmi@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Jamie Paul CURMI)
Subject: Why not Australia?
Message-ID: <9220916.15028@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
Summary: WHY not Australia?
Keywords: australia, bases, ufos, kangaroos, greys, vegemite
Sender: news@cs.mu.OZ.AU
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 06:25:07 GMT
Lines: 12

Just a thought....

Perhaps that big rock in the centre aint really just a rock?

\(^_^)/

Jamie

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------            Jamie P. Curmi  (curmi@cs.mu.oz.au, curmi@maths.mu.oz.au)                      Department of Computer Science,   Department of Mathematics
         The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    *** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! ***
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!ParaNet(sm).Information.Service
From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: STRONG WORD OF CAUTION!
Message-ID: <139389.2A739F99@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 27 Jul 92 06:56:03 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 25


 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-26-92 23:56

Over the last few days we have been posting information supplied by the Phoenix
Project of Carson City, Nevada.  This information has been strongly disclaimed
by ParaNet pending the results of our investigation to determine the validity
of the Phoenix Project and its officers.

While the investigation is still ongoing, we have found some highly disturbing
things relating to credibility of the group.  This information will be reported
as soon as the investigation is completed.  This should be in the next few
days.

Until this investigation is complete and the findings published, ParaNet wishes
to urge everyone not to send any money to the group.

Michael Corbin
Director

-- 
ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!unix1.tcd.ie!ewillims
From: ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie (Emma Williams)
Subject: E.W.- UFO sighted!
Message-ID: <ewillims.712234609@unix1.tcd.ie>
Sender: usenet@cs.tcd.ie (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie)
Nntp-Posting-Host: unix1.tcd.ie
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 10:56:49 GMT
Lines: 25

 Here is a news article as reported in today's Irish Independant
Newspaper, Monday, July 27th......


SPY PLANE SPARKS SCARE


A MYSTERIOUS, fast moving shape in the sky has been
scaring sheep in western Scotland and rattling
windows in Los Angeles.
There are reports of sudden "pulsating roars".






That's all it said.... Are we to presume that these events have
happened simultaneously??? Reporting just isn't what it used to be!

    ____________________________________________________________________
    |   Emma Williams            | Dad, I guess you're wondering why   |
    |   ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie    | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes  |
    | | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> )       |
    |____________________________|_____________________________________|
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <1992Jul27.102245.19078@crc.ac.uk>
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:22:45 GMT
References: <20JUN199221455246@zeus.tamu.edu> <61899@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul17.173640.17428@crc.ac.uk> <j2amy7b@lynx.unm.edu>
Sender: news@crc.ac.uk
Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 40
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium

In article <j2amy7b@lynx.unm.edu>, ee3401cb@carina.unm.edu (Student Class Account) writes:
> In article <1992Jul17.173640.17428@crc.ac.uk> sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes:
> >To coincide with the MUFON Conference last weekend in Alberquerque
> >Stanton Friedman and Don Berliner's new book "Crash at Corona" was
> >released. This week Stan is doing a lecture tour around New Mexico.
> >

{stuff deleted}

> >At the MUFON Press Conference at Alberquerque there was a heated
> >exchange of views between Kevin Randle, representing a local Roswell
> >paper (also author with Don Schmitt of Crash at Roswell) and Stan.
>
> Maybe this debate was over the second crash site or something?
>
> James

If I remember correctly, it was along the lines that Kevin felt that
Stan was on dangerous ground because he felt he (KR) had evidence which
showed one of Stan's main witnesses to be a liar.

From what Stan said in his lecture, he managed to sell all 100 copies
of Crash at Corona he had at the MUFON conference.

If you want to did into the Roswell case, as well as the books Roswell
Incident, UFO Crash at Roswell and Crash at Corona, there is also a
book produced by Center for UFO Studies which is a collection of papers
by various authors concerning Roswell. There is also a video produced by
the Fund for UFO Research (?Recollections of Roswell)


Steve.



--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) 
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome 
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: +44 81 869 3293  JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.config:9030 alt.alien.visitors:7596
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!ibmpcug!mantis!mathew
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <VsLkoB10w165w@mantis.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:27:42 BST
References: <l6uu9rINN8qf@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
Distribution: world
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.
Lines: 41

jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes:
> alt.strange.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
> alt.strange.aliens - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
> alt.strange.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
> alt.strange.mutilations - strange mutilations
> alt.strange.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments
>
> All these work except the last. We could try "anomaly":
>
> alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
> alt.anomaly.aliens - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
> alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
> alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations
> alt.anomaly.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments

I suggest "forteana".

alt.forteana.ufos
alt.forteana.aliens
alt.forteana.circles
alt.forteana.mutilations
alt.forteana.coverups

And, of course, we could have an

alt.forteana.misc

for discussion of general Fortean events.

The only problem I can see is that not everyone will have heard of or read
The Fortean Times, so you'd get people asking what Forteana are and who
Charles Fort was.

Of course, this isn't a bad thing, as anyone interested in such topics damn
well ought to have a subscription to the Fortean Times.


mathew
--
This disclaimer does not represent the views of Mantis Consultants Ltd

Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10972 alt.alien.visitors:7597 sci.skeptic:27948
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62886@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:01:33 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <fmkmg3c@lynx.unm.edu>
Lines: 6

Dear Dan: I wish that I had you with me yesterday down in Souther Calif.
on a 5 miles hike into some American Indian ancient country. That would
have taken some of the starch out of your levies. We were in an area
where people have sightings of what the indians call Thunderbird and
what scientist call the pterodactyl.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!hrz.tu-chemnitz.de!jahe
From: jahe@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Jane Hennig)
Subject: Ships to India or Pakistan
Message-ID: <jahe.712252516@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de>
Sender: bin@hrz.tu-chemnitz.de (Owner of all binaries)
Organization: tu-chemnitz
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:55:16 GMT
Lines: 11

Peter and Mario want to travel to India.

Who knows from which European harbors are going ships
to India or Pakistan?

Please, when you can help me, write as soon as possible.

Thank you!!!


Fine, holidays for all nn-readers. :-)
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10973 alt.alien.visitors:7599 sci.skeptic:27949
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62887@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:17:25 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <fmkmg3c@lynx.unm.edu>
Lines: 9

Dear Warren, Grant, Ben and Bob:
I once had the pleasure of reading some material called The Sabors
Portions from the Sananda Sanat Kamara Association.  It was great
material but it did repeat itself a lot and had a lot of mistakes in
it.  A young man came along and took the time to read and correct the
mistakes so that everybody could understand it.  A master came along
and read the information after it was corrected and said, "The information
goes out the way it was before".
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:27950 alt.alien.visitors:7600
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <62888@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:28:21 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul22.210032.18308@pony.Ingres.COM>
  <1992Jul25.193400.14718@rosevax.rosemount.com>
Lines: 6

Dear Grant: I will have to admit that a good deal of what the pulp
magazines contain is just something to sell papers but sometime they contain
pearls of wisdom that do come through. I believe that very little can
be learned by looking at the headlines of the tabloids as one goes
through the checkout line.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <62890@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:40:48 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul18.090727.28652@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
  <62393@cup.portal.com> <62659@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 5

Dear Everybody:
I just got back from my trip into the 30,000 year old city in Southern
Calif.  I enjoyed myself and truely it can be said about the city,
Truely The Half Has Not Been Told.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black (mib)
Message-ID: <62891@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:52:03 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <139288.2A6C8CC9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
  <1992Jul22.183227.6227@mprgate.mpr.ca>
  <1992Jul26.151223.19673@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Lines: 9

Dear Fredrich: This weekend I was in Southern Calif. on a 5 mile hike
into some American Indian country and a person by the name of Robert
Stanley told me that he once was taken on a ride aboard a Earth built
flying disk craft.  The craft was piloted by an American person. Robert
and the pilot were picked up by a craft that was a remotely controlled
craft. When they got into the craft the American took control of the
ship and they went over and observed the Persian Gulf War that was at
that time going on.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!mips!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: John_-_Winston Poll
Message-ID: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Keywords: Get a clue numb----.
Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:10:26 GMT
Lines: 32

Hello any & everybody,

Mabye John will get the MESSAGE this way?!?! All those in favor of dear old
John_-_Winston sending e-mail instead of posting his responses to the world
at large , please post a RE: to this message to let the post happy
bandwidth burner
know we are all growing weary of his blatent disregard for information
dissemination in an organized & efficient manner.The next step of course
would be to contact the NETWORK POLICE to give him a keyboard enema.

The choices are:

yes [X] John,please refrain from posting what should be email responses to
this newsgroup.

no [ ] John, continue with your irratating ways. We love to read all of
your responses to questions & flames that we have never seen.

the old moronic no opinion [ ] What a stupid idea in the first place,who
cares about someone with no opinion.

Rod 

--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black
Message-ID: <62892@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 10:07:33 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Lines: 11

Dear Mike: Please let me put my two cents worth in here. In my humble
opinion I think that John Keel has put out a lot of very good information
but now that he is writing for Fate magazine it appears that his
attitude towards some subjects seem to be one of disbelief in quite a
few different subjects. It appears that sometimes a person will back
off a litte just to stay alive.  Obtaining information about people
who have knowledge of MIBs is sort of like interviewing a person
who has been attempted to be eaten by a white shark. Their are not
very many people who have lived to talk about it. If you have the
experience you are convienced not to talk about it. If you do continue
to talk about it you wake up dead.  John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Boy or Girl  (was Re: e: Ley Lines)
Message-ID: <62894@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 10:41:04 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <memo.542686@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Lines: 11

Dear Andy: How are you today, I forgot to ask? Please forgive me but
hello Andy is a saying I use to greet any and everone. How are you I forgot
to ask is a joke amoung my friends.  You asked about the Mysterious Rock
Walls. They have been invertigated by many groups. Some people think
they are only 220 years old but my friends think they are 22,000 years
old and that information comes from psychics mostly. They appear to
be is some cases to be only about 4 feet tall and about 1 and one half
feet wide. They will run for hundreds of yards and even have two
walls running along parallel to one another. There is a group investigating
them in Fremont Caif. that one of the members of the group was a
medical doctor whoes last name is Fisher.----John Winston.------
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10974 alt.alien.visitors:7606 sci.skeptic:27955
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!think.com!news.bbn.com!ingria
From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 27 Jul 1992 17:42:22 GMT
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <l78dbuINN8la@news.bbn.com>
References: <fmkmg3c@lynx.unm.edu> <62886@cup.portal.com>
Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of 27 Jul 92 16:01:33 GMT

In article <62886@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:

   Dear Dan: I wish that I had you with me yesterday down in Souther Calif.
   on a 5 miles hike into some American Indian ancient country. That would
   have taken some of the starch out of your levies. We were in an area
   where people have sightings of what the indians call Thunderbird and
   what scientist call the pterodactyl.

You realize, of course, that partaking of what winos call Thunderbird
can produce visions of what scientists call the pterodactyl.

-30-
Bob

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Boy or Girl  (was Re: e: Ley Lines)
Message-ID: <62898@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 10:48:03 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <memo.542686@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Lines: 8

---There is a lady who has done a lot of investigating on the Mysterious
Rock Walls and she has a newsletter about them and other energy points.
You might write her if you like.
Louise Lacey P.O. Box 489 Berkeley, Calif. 94701
This weekend I was near Malibu, Caliif. in the ruins of a 30,000 year
old city and it had wall just about like the walls up here in the
San Francisco Bay Area. The city was called Mu.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Kill file
Message-ID: <62899@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 10:54:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jul25.184044.1606@mach4.wlu.ca>
Lines: 4

Dear Kevin:
I believe that if you use the commands subscribe and unsubscribe it
will give you what you want.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor?
Message-ID: <62900@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 11:04:35 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu>
  <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Lines: 4

Dear Rod:
I enjoyed your account of Bigfoot.  It sounds like most of the information
that has come my way about him or her.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli
Message-ID: <v1lmh5f@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:39:47 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>
Lines: 59

In article <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID
>>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST?  The Pleiades are bright young stars still
>>within their nebular cocoon.  They are along the order of millions of
>>years old.  It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve
>>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams.
>>Are the Pleidians child prodigies?  Btw the first prokaryotes didn't
>>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth.
>>Thomas Freebairn
>
>I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the
>Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally
>evolve in what is now their home system.  As for the Pleiades,
>how far away are they?  You would want to add their distance to
>their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age,
>right? 
>
>Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused
>by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in
>binary or trinary star systems? 
>
>Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education
>is truly worthless? :-)

No, you ask some good questions.

I don't remember how far the pleiades are from us, but they are within
our galaxy, so they are a few thousand light years away at most, an
insignificant time period.

They are also _VERY_ young, the reflection nebulae that surraounds them
is left over from their formation.  Any planets that have formed are
at best barren and atmosphere-less, or at wordt still molten.  The
estimates of the age are in the million of years,  orders of magnitude
younger than the earth was when single celled life appeared here.

Evolution hasn't come in to play yet so the radiation from being in
orbit around multiple O or B type star system isn't a factor.  (O and
B type starts are the hottest type stars, which many of the memebers
of the Pleiades cluster are.)

>--
>DISCLAIMER:                                              | Bob Mitchell
>"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu
>"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
>"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy         | 1987 VT700c

Ithlial

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go,
"What, was THAT?!"
 
 

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken
Message-ID: <Jul.27.14.14.14.1992.12858@dropout.rutgers.edu>
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:14:15 GMT
References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 33

Hi,

melissa@voyager4.sdsu.edu (Melissa )
I was just wondering if anyone out there took seriously
the theories and claims of famed author and traveler Erich Von
Daniken.

.... you may want to look for Clifford Wilson's books "Crash go the
Chariots" and "The Chariots still Crash", for further information on
EVD's evidence for his thesis.  The sum of the matter is that EVD's
supporting "evidence" is not what he says it is.  Here's the
publication information from the Rutgers library catalog:


   AUTHOR Wilson, Clifford A
    TITLE Crash go the chariots / Clifford Wilson.
  EDITION Rev. and enl.
PUBLISHER San Diego, Calif. : Master Books, 1976.


   AUTHOR Wilson, Clifford A.
    TITLE The chariots still crash / Clifford Wilson.
PUBLISHER New York : New American Library, [1976] c1975.


.... Read those for a another viewpoint on things.  I always had
problems with some of EVD's evidence; saying that the Pyramids were
unbuildable without help ignores the amazing engineering genius that
humans (even ancient humans) posses.  Its an interesting thesis, of
course, but in my opinion EVD's evidence should not be taken at face
value.  (Don't forget the "Gold of the Gods" fiasco.)

Charles
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!sunova!andorra!kevin
From: kevin@andorra.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: John_Winston-Complete incineration
Message-ID: <1992Jul27.184726.20422@sunova.ssc.gov>
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:47:26 GMT
Sender: usenet@sunova.ssc.gov (News Admin)
Reply-To: kevin@andorra.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Nelson)
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Lines: 23
Nntp-Posting-Host: andorra.ssc.gov


>From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com

>who have knowledge of MIBs is sort of like interviewing a person
>who has been attempted to be eaten by a white shark. Their are not
>very many people who have lived to talk about it. If you have the
>experience you are convienced not to talk about it. If you do continue
>to talk about it you wake up dead.  John Winston.



               Hey John, just how does one "wake up dead"....
               Was your brain abducted sometime back?
               Maybe someone, something will trip while
               treading upon the surface of Uranus and look
               down and say "look doesn't that appear to be a brain
               or what used to be one!!"

               Look if you keep posting this ridiculous garbage
               you're just going to have to endure the heat.....

               May the toast be with you John......
         
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!sunova!andorra!kevin
From: kevin@andorra.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Nelson)
Subject: John_Winston-Complete incineration
Message-ID: <1992Jul27.185232.20658@sunova.ssc.gov>
Sender: usenet@sunova.ssc.gov (News Admin)
Nntp-Posting-Host: andorra.ssc.gov
Reply-To: kevin@andorra.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Nelson)
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:52:32 GMT
Lines: 25


>From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com

>who have knowledge of MIBs is sort of like interviewing a person
>who has been attempted to be eaten by a white shark. Their are not
>very many people who have lived to talk about it. If you have the
>experience you are convienced not to talk about it. If you do continue
>to talk about it you wake up dead.  John Winston.



               Hey John, just how does one "wake up dead"....
               Was your brain abducted sometime back?
               Maybe someone, something will trip while
               treading upon the surface of Uranus and look
               down and say "look doesn't that appear to be a brain
               or what used to be one!!"

               Look if you keep posting this ridiculous garbage
               you're just going to have to endure the heat.....

               May the toast be with you John......
         


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.ans.net!nynexst.com!mirage!pjc
From: pjc@mirage.nynexst.com (Peter Colonel)
Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll : yes [X]
Message-ID: <1992Jul27.185943.9866@nynexst.com>
Keywords: Get a clue numb----.
Sender: news@nynexst.com (For News purposes)
Reply-To: pjc@mirage.nynexst.com (Peter Colonel)
Organization: Nynex Science & Technology
References:  <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 18:59:43 GMT
Lines: 7

[X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
[X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
[X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
[X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
[X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]

'nuf said ???
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!agate!usenet
From: william@moica.berkeley.edu (William E. Grosso)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll : yes [X]
Date: 27 Jul 1992 19:54:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <151k8rINNmr6@agate.berkeley.edu>
References: <1992Jul27.185943.9866@nynexst.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: moica.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Jul27.185943.9866@nynexst.com> pjc@mirage.nynexst.com 
(Peter Colonel) writes:
> [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
> [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
> [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
> [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
> [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
>
> 'nuf said ???

No. Not enough said. you negelected to mention which box you
were x'ing. All we know is that you have a very strongly held
opinion. Personally, I hope you're x'ing the apathetic box
(for esthetic reasons).


Bill Grosso



Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!harvey
From: harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli
Message-ID: <1992Jul27.150451.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Lines: 62
Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu
Organization: Indiana University
References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> <1992Jul25.004507.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:04:51 -0500

In article <1992Jul25.004507.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>, tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
> In article <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>>>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID
>>>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST?  The Pleiades are bright young stars still
>>>within their nebular cocoon.  They are along the order of millions of
>>>years old.  It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve
>>>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams.
>>>Are the Pleidians child prodigies?  Btw the first prokaryotes didn't
>>>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth.
>>>Thomas Freebairn
>>
>> I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the
>> Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally
>> evolve in what is now their home system.
>
>  Yes?

It's still a pretty weak explanation.  Oxygen-breathing animals would have
a difficult time surviving on an earth-like planet before the evolution of
_plants_, let alone prokaryotes.  In fact, before the evolution of plants,
the earth wasn't really very `earth-like' at all, if by that term you mean
like it is now...

Ask yourself: Why is earth's atmosphere 21% oxygen?  How long did it take to
get this way (it wasn't always, you know).  How does soil cover over bedrock
form?  How could these `seeded' Pleiadians have survived before there was
any bacterial slime to be licked off of rocks, let alone oxygen to breath?

>
>>As for the Pleiades,
>> how far away are they?  You would want to add their distance to
>> their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age,
>> right?
>
> No.

Yes.  But if the distance in light years is very small compared to their age,
this correction will be negligable.

>> Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused
>> by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in
>> binary or trinary star systems?
>
> Yes and no.

But you're talking orders of magnitude faster.  And even if mutations happen
faster, if there is no selection pressure, how is this going to speed up
evolution?  What about selection pressures that are going to take on the
order of a billion years or so to develop regardless of the mutation rate,
like anaerobic bacteria producing enough O2 to make a big enough niche for
aerobic bacteria to florish?

>> Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education
>> is truly worthless? :-)>
>
> Maybe.
>
> Thomas Freebairn
--
James Harvey
harvey@iupui.edu  uucp: iugate!harvey  bitnet: harvey@indyvax
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John_Winston-Complete incineration
Message-ID: <62904@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:13:24 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jul27.184726.20422@sunova.ssc.gov>
Lines: 3

Dear Kevin:
Please don't get excited.
John Winsnton.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll
Message-ID: <62905@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:16:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Lines: 2

Dear Rod: I read your suggestion.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Kill file
Message-ID: <62907@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:21:10 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul25.184044.1606@mach4.wlu.ca> <62899@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 4

Dear Kevin:
After thinking about my last advice to you I take it all back it won't
work.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ships to India or Pakistan
Message-ID: <62908@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:24:35 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <jahe.712252516@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de>
Lines: 23

In article <jahe.712252516@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de>
jahe@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Jane Hennig) writes:

| Peter and Mario want to travel to India.
|
| Who knows from which European harbors are going ships
| to India or Pakistan?
|
| Please, when you can help me, write as soon as possible.
|
| Thank you!!!
|
|
| Fine, holidays for all nn-readers. :-)

Do "Grays" carry green cards?  Have visas?  :-)

Anyone still believe "alt.alien.visitors" shouldn't be renamed, please raise
your hand.  "alt.ufos.*" would reduce some of the non-pertinent traffic that
appears in this newsgroup, but I'm not saying that's the best choice for a
new name.

Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10976 alt.alien.visitors:7621 sci.skeptic:27964
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arsmith
From: arsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Smith)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <1992Jul27.201545.18316@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <fmkmg3c@lynx.unm.edu> <62886@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 20:15:45 GMT
Lines: 15

In article <62886@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Dan: I wish that I had you with me yesterday down in Souther Calif.
>on a 5 miles hike into some American Indian ancient country. That would
>have taken some of the starch out of your levies. We were in an area
>where people have sightings of what the indians call Thunderbird and
>what scientist call the pterodactyl.
>John Winston.


You're thinking of Condors, big vulturelike birds.  Pteradactyls were more
like flying squirrels than birds, although I suppose they could make use
of thermals to gain altitude.

Big Al.  Hey, what did Pteradactyls eat, anyway?  Any kind-hearted
palentologists out there?
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll
Message-ID: <62909@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:34:53 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Lines: 29

In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com>
rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes:

| Mabye John will get the MESSAGE this way?!?! All those in favor of dear old
| John_-_Winston sending e-mail instead of posting his responses to the world
| at large , please post a RE: to this message to let the post happy
| [...]

While I agree there's far too much "personal banter" occuring, give the guy
a break.

The Portal interface is NOT like anything you may have seen before; it's sort
of a cross between "Notes" (as on HP-UX systems) and a DOS-type BBS.

Believe me, it's all too easy to accidentally send an empty article or not
understand how to move to the next screen.  And the email interface appears
identical to the Usenet, Clarinet, Internet interfaces and it's very easy
to become confused even for those who ARE "computer-literate."

I've sent email to John and to "cs@cup.portal.com" (Customer Services) asking
to get John setup with a "Portal Partner" or "Portal Pals" (whatever they
call it) to help him acclimate to the system.

I've used Portal for over 5 years (since it was a local call, and The WELL
(used to) charge by the minute) because it was a flat-rate service, but even
I occasionally get "caught" in the interface (even though I've put most of
Portal's commands on function keys with my terminal emulator).

Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7623 sci.skeptic:27965
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: astral travel
Message-ID: <62912@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:43:18 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <62637@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Jul24.040144.20572@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> <62711@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 4

Dear Press: You made the statement, John you would be God. This statement
that you made in jest is actually the ultimate goal of enlightment and
that is to be at one with God. Then you would know everything.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7624 sci.skeptic:27969
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: astral travel
Message-ID: <62915@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:05:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <62637@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Jul24.040144.20572@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> <62711@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11

Hi there BSKAGL: I just got back from the ruins of the 30,000 year old
city in Southern Calif. Now back to the discussion of Astral Projection.
The person called T. Lobsang Rampa (the T. stands for tuesday because they
always put down the day a person is born on to identify them astrologically
so they can know more about a person, and I find that extremely funny) did
talk in his book The Rampa Story starting on page 22 about astral projection
and I will now paraphrase some of that information.---His quide taught
astral travel so well that he could do it better than walking.  Almost
anyone of the religions of the world believes in the soul or "other body".
Actually there are several bodies or sheaths but the exact number does
not concern us here. We know that it is possible-----John Winston.--
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: astral travel
Message-ID: <62916@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:17:17 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com>
Lines: 9

--lay aside the ordinary physical body (the one that supports the clothes)
and travel anywhere, even beyond the Earth, in the astral form. Everyone
does astral travelling, even the ones who think it is "all nonsense"!
It is as natural as breathing. Most people do it when they are asleep
and so, unless they are trained, they know nothing about it. Many times
dieing people visit alive people by astral travel to tell them they have
past over and to let their friend know that they now are OK on the other
side. That's all for now.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A question for John_-_Winston
Message-ID: <62918@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:26:17 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jul16.152737.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Lines: 7

Dear tffreeb:
Well someone finally took pity on little ole me and told me who Hassan
B. Multu is and he turns out to be a person who does a lot of posting
in Europe. He talks a lot about the Armeanian killing a bunch of Turks
not too many years ago. I can say without a hesitation that I'm not
him.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors crossposts
Message-ID: <62920@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:36:21 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jul26.165855.5157@mach4.wlu.ca>
Lines: 5

Dear Kevin:
I have a question.  When are you going to run out of questions. The
teachings of the people of the East are not foolishness to some
people.  I believe they have a lot to teach us if we will but listen.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Artsy MIBs and Alien MIBs
Message-ID: <62921@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:40:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <Brp86I.HF4@acsu.buffalo.edu> <62546@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Jul22.125200.20671@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>
Lines: 3

Dear Steve:
I believe that anything is possible.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO books
Message-ID: <62922@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 15:06:30 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jul23.193217.510@news.Hawaii.Edu>
Lines: 10

Dear Elaine: You ask about UFO book so here I go.  I'll try to give
you my opinion on the subject.  The first book is Stranger At The
Pentagon by Frank Stranges.  Fate Magazine just got through writing
an article tearing this book apart. I figure if Fate has that much to
say about it then it's got to be good. I read it many years ago and it
talks about a person from Venus called Valient Thor who contacted Ike I.
(our president) and tried to give us some help. We didn't take his
help but he did give us 2 or more UFOs to show good faith. You can get
the book at Inner Light Publications, P.O. Box 753, New Prunswick,
NJ 08903 USA.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!lacerta.unm.edu!cary
From: cary@lacerta.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll
Message-ID: <z9lma4a@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 22:47:41 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Keywords: Get a clue numb----.
Lines: 30

In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes:
>
>The choices are:

yes [X] John,please refrain from posting what should be email responses to
this newsgroup.

>no [ ] John, continue with your irratating ways. We love to read all of
>your responses to questions & flames that we have never seen.
>
>the old moronic no opinion [ ] What a stupid idea in the first place,who
>cares about someone with no opinion.
>
Ithlial



JOHN!

USE YOUR GODDAM

EEEEEEEE         M       M        A        IIIIIII  L           !
 E               MM     MM       A A          I     L           !
  E              M M   M M      A   A         I     L           !
   EEEE  ======= M  M M  M     A     A        I     L           !
  E              M   M   M    AAAAAAAAA       I     L           !
 E               M       M   A         A      I     L           !
EEEEEEEE         M       M  A           A  IIIIIII  LLLLLLL     o
     

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!rd1s+
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <MeR638S00WB30ILUFs@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:47:04 -0400
From: "Robert H. P. Dunn" <rd1s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: aliens from sigkids@siggraph.org
Lines: 29

From sigkids Mon Jul 27 15:38:19 1992
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 15:38:19 -0500
From: Siggraph'92 SIGKids <sigkids@siggraph.org>
To: netnews.alt.alien.visitors
Subject: their supiriority over us
Cc: sigkids@siggraph.org

We definately know that aliens are definately superior compared
to us, because they haven't contacted us yet.  This is known
because I was an alien in a past life.  My story starts several
years ago... Me and Zargot were taking an evening stroll when
when an earthling satelite crushed him (sort of like the wiked witch
of the West or east or whatever which one it was. you probably know)
Anyway... I was covered in alien blood(which is made of a very high
corrosive) which severely damaged me.  Also it took our homes amay
(by the way we were exactly 20000 times smaller than those demented
earthlings, so to them our homes looked like grains of dust.  So us
Zarlgonians refer to you extremely massive and inferior earthlings
the "Ones who crushed our homes and smashed our peoples into micro-
scopic bits of dying organic matter, so we tend to stay away from them.
Another reason we are superior is that we control ourselve from eating
toxic waste such as... twinkies, ding dongs, choco bliss, pepsi, and
pizza, raw sea animals with no natural external coverings (shells, etc...)
Also you destroy new life forms and old ones especially your enviroment.
I could go on for many pages, but I am being called by my leader...not
this is "the one who experienced gory things and who had to suffer
because he turned into something terrible after his battery ran out...
......an earthling!!!"
Ari @ sigkids Chicago
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10981 alt.alien.visitors:7632 sci.skeptic:27972
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!hoptoad!amdcad!sono!lawson
From: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson)
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <1992Jul27.204837.20643@acuson.com>
Reply-To: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson)
Organization: ACUSON, Mountain View, CA
References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> <cass8806.108@elan.glassboro.edu> <l6u3buINN9fc@news.bbn.com> <62695@cup.portal.com> <62709@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:48:37 GMT
Lines: 11

In article <62709@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Fellow Earthlings: Here it is Friday morning 0607 and things look
>pretty good.  If  it's God's will and if the creek doesn't rise
>I hope to go down to Southern Calif. and go on a tour of  the ruins
>of a 30,000 year old city.

No, John.  Los Angeles only _seems_ 30,000 years old.

--
Drew Lawson                      If you're not part of the solution,
lawson@acuson.com                you're part of the precipitate
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10982 alt.alien.visitors:7633 sci.skeptic:27973
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence
Message-ID: <62928@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:49:59 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jun14.192328.11396@cco.caltech.edu>
  <1992Jun15.000927.14468@uwm.edu> <1992Jun15.143917.16445@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
  <1992Jun16.014515.24059@uwm.edu>
Lines: 11

Dear Future Astral Astronauts: In my last report of the Astral Convoy
I made a few slight mistakes. The person called K. should have been J.
J. lived in Penn. USA rather than Hawaii. E. forgot to go on the journey
but his higher self took off on time and did make contact with J.  I
don't know what J. looks like but I think I got a picture in my mind
of E.  Shannon passed out according to the information I got from E. and
wasn't aware of anything. We don't know whether Shannon is a girl or boy
but we don't want to ask because Shannon will think we're trying to cheat.
Kumar turned out to be in the USA rather than Germany but he never could
get his mind altogether. So we have a little room for improvement. We have
a person from England named Linda that wants in on some of this action. JW
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10983 alt.alien.visitors:7634 sci.skeptic:27974
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence
Message-ID: <62931@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:59:04 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jun14.192328.11396@cco.caltech.edu>
  <1992Jun15.000927.14468@uwm.edu> <1992Jun15.143917.16445@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
  <1992Jun16.014515.24059@uwm.edu>
Lines: 6

Part 2. J. has two friends that want to get in on this. Their names are
Allen and Bill.  Some people may wonder how I'm going to get from one
place to another so fast. This Astral Convoy will be traveling at the
speed of thought.  I'll need 8 seconds or less for each person visited.
That's all for now.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <62932@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:15:23 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61258@cup.portal.com>
  <62793@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11

This is the start of Part 3 of the information from Shaari about ley lines.
----The research by the Star Command is two fold, the first is {they are}
checking to see how the Earth's surface, how the surfacre is being affected
by the deterioration of the ozone, how much reaiaation is in there, how
much negative vibratory frequencies are in there, how many negative
thought forms are around in there. {This is} very much an assessment and
analyses of how the Earth's surface is beisng impacted by her {exterior}
enviorment. Pollution, what's happening is that it {comes} from the
negativity and sometimes the {adverse} thought forms that are laying
close to the ground. The radiation and pollution are all being monitored
and checked.  At the same time while they are checking that, they---JW
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Linesj
Message-ID: <62935@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:28:49 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com>
  <62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu> <62611@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11

---are infusing the qualities of color, light, {time} and frequency into
those connection points of the ley lines {crossover, See,} That's
why some of the circular configurations {will just} be a circle, others
will {seem} more elaborate, like two barbells and two parallel lines,
you know that they look like two {little} lines that are, the purpose
of which even goes further {that}, each one of these are access points
for the earth's conciousness to also exchange with her {conciousness}
and her higher {range}.  This is what your have, high conciousness. This
is what you have {conciousness} with God, but guess what, the earth does
too, and it's not the Star Command.  The Star Command is just assisting,
a service department, but she also has the conciousness of God and ---
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Linesj
Message-ID: <62936@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:35:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com>
  <62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu> <62611@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 7

--the Goddess and other planets and other constellations that she speaks
to, so when you are looking at these two barbells which are symbolical
of these particular configurations and you have two parallel lines that
are very close together and usually on either side of these circles,
these little parallel lines indicate the {specific} transformation doorways
for the earth and her conciousness. End of Part 3.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!caen!umeecs!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ships to India or Pakistan
Message-ID: <k!mm7nr.payner@netcom.com>
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:50:32 GMT
References: <jahe.712252516@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de> <62908@cup.portal.com>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 34

In article <62908@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>In article <jahe.712252516@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de>
>jahe@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Jane Hennig) writes:
>
>| Peter and Mario want to travel to India.
>|
>| Who knows from which European harbors are going ships
>| to India or Pakistan?
>|
>| Please, when you can help me, write as soon as possible.
>|
>| Thank you!!!
>|
>|
>| Fine, holidays for all nn-readers. :-)
>
>Do "Grays" carry green cards?  Have visas?  :-)
>
>Anyone still believe "alt.alien.visitors" shouldn't be renamed, please raise
>your hand.  "alt.ufos.*" would reduce some of the non-pertinent traffic that
>appears in this newsgroup, but I'm not saying that's the best choice for a
>new name.

Sorry Thad, it had been demonstrated many times right here that when
many say UFO, they mean alien spaceship. Unless the new groups generated
more traffic (which is possible), it would diffuse it out a bit. Poor
John is having trouble keeping up now.

>Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]

Rich


payner@netcom.com
Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:27978 alt.alien.visitors:7639
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <1992Jul27.235723.6662@rosevax.rosemount.com>
Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
References: <62888@cup.portal.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:57:23 GMT
Lines: 18

John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
: Dear Grant: I will have to admit that a good deal of what the pulp
: magazines contain is just something to sell papers but sometime they contain
: pearls of wisdom that do come through. I believe that very little can
: be learned by looking at the headlines of the tabloids as one goes
: through the checkout line.
: John Winston.

I don't just read the headlines in the WWN.  We have a subscription at
work (paid for with personal money).  The fun part is trying to pick out
the articles that are true (albeit slightly sensationalized) vs the ones
that are complete fabrications.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I'm a GENIUS!  I want
Rosemount Inc.                                |to dispute sentence structure