UFO/Alien message board part 1

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Linesj
Message-ID: <62611@cup.portal.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 17:59:34 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com>
  <62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu>
Lines: 4

Dear Cary: Thanks for adding some real adventure to this collection.
I'm going to make it one of these years (posting from floppy disks that
is).
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!tffreeba
From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli
Message-ID: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Lines: 8
Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:31:12 -0500

To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID
THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST?  The Pleiades are bright young stars still
within their nebular cocoon.  They are along the order of millions of
years old.  It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve
to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams.
Are the Pleidians child prodigies?  Btw the first prokaryotes didn't
evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth.
Thomas Freebairn
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!watdragon.waterloo.edu!watyew!jdnicoll
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <BrtoGA.Eov@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Waterloo
References: <mBoaoB1w165w@spectrx.saigon.com> <1992Jul22.130451.21078@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:31:21 GMT
Lines: 19

In article <1992Jul22.130451.21078@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> timpson@nntpd2.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) writes:
>
>In article <mBoaoB1w165w@spectrx.saigon.com>, aaron@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer - System) writes...
>>I was talking to my mom about some of the stuff I've been reading in this
>>group, and I mentioned Zeta Reticuli.  She said that she heard that star system
>>had a super nova quite recently, actually one of the larger ones.  Could some
>
>        WRONG!
>
>        there have  been  no  known super  novas  in  our  galaxy in quit
>        sonetime.  they  are  a  rare event and the most recent have been
>        extra galactic.

A supernova within 40 lightyears would be very very obvious
(Apparent magnitude of ~ -21ish, I think) and could also be very very
bad, wrt our current ecosystem. None of the ZR stars are SN candidates,
though.

James Nicoll
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.binaries.pictures.misc:8042 alt.alien.visitors:7477
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.misc,alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: Re: Follow up to "UFO-Pic"
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 01:09:34 GMT
Message-ID: <YUC5QHT@zelator.in-berlin.de>
References: <6rfmyy=@lynx.unm.edu>
Lines: 27

Hi,
thanks for the effort to edit the Phobos UFO pic, but You missed the
point !

The "UFO" should be the "big white line" below phobos !

Did You view the JPEG pic which I had posted only on a 640x480 Monitor?

Then You probably missed to view the big line beloe phobos !

You just thought phobos is the UFO !

Have a look again at the original Picture I have posted and You
realize Your error !

Best regards Stefan Hartmann.
email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de



--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: astral travel
Message-ID: <62635@cup.portal.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 21:39:51 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com>
Lines: 11

Dear Bill, S., K., A., G., and Lubbe: That is quite a question and
I'll try my best to answer it in full as time goes on.  The body is
devided in 5 or more bodies starting with the physical that we see,
then the astral, casual mental, spirtual and a few more thrown in
for good measure. In OOB experiences you loose the use of the physical
and start looking around with the astral or spiritual. In astral
projection you cause the physical to go into a trance state and
travel with your astral or spiritual body to go and see things.
The astral is a lower frequency than the spiritual and is a little
more dangerous to use.
More later down the line.   John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: astral travel
Message-ID: <62637@cup.portal.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 21:43:08 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com>
  <1992Jul22.231809.1936@mprgate.mpr.ca>
Lines: 4

Dear Len. If you would learn to use these gifts such as telepathy
astral projection and a few others then no one would be able to lie
to you.  Everyone would be an open book for you to read.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!unipalm!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang
From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: Ley_Lines <<= Please cool down =>>
Message-ID: <1992Jul23.022433.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:24:33 GMT
Sender: usenet@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News)
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Lines: 53
Nntp-Posting-Host: sara.cc.utu.fi


   
        Dear Alexi,
     
            Thank you so much for kindly help for Hillman. I am sorry because
for a long time he is away from his Dept. for vocation and will  come
back next week.

    Well, anyway please me to say please cool down for you  disagree-
mant. I think most of your ideas about Lein-Line should be right. Any
way you are well-experienced professional but actuallyhillman is only
a young  innocent  enthusiasm  in this field.  I guess that the  only
        difference is your analysize method is a little different. I had read
quite a lot of papers of UFO stuff written by this young fellow.   It
seems that his  researching style is  relatively systematically,  but
        also too carefully and slackly. He always express his thankness to me
for your genious  guidiance which lead  his inspiration.  But  please           
be patient or caution for a while because you don't know his  present
subject and hindrance. I hope not from Carl, that fellow is so diffi-
cult to deal with in some cases.
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^

    In short, please cool down, Mr. Alexi.  I hope time can  show more
evidence to you about Hillman's present business. Haven't you fell any
convenience on your Lab. ? For instance, some new research  utilities?
Before Hillman leave for vocation,  he said that  those could be  very
        useful for your Corp-Cicycle investigation  research on your UFO Club.

    I hope later hillman can sent you some  good news and could  go to
        discuss with you face to face for your joint interested topic. But I'm
afraid to say that  maybe he  is realy not  available for taht seminor
because he is faraway from your place.

    Well, anyway thanks a lot for your kindly care for his paper. Hope
later you can get more chances to do some joint research programmes. I
guess you will like that.

    By the way, could you recommand me  some  E-mail address of  other
        enthusiasm who can make a important role in this Corp-Circycle  inves-
tigation. If next week Hillman want to contact with you. Those fellows
can forward tht news to you...

    Anyway, let's cool down for a while,  I hope  you can satisfy  your
achievenent now. Ain't right. Please let's wait for a while, ok ?

            Thanks for your kindly consideration.

    Best wishes.

    Cheer:)
                                                 Yours UFOly

Auratapaa_Wang
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7481 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1980
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!alchemy!ruunfs!spiering
From: spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl>
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht,  The Netherlands
References: <FRANL.92Jul20162056@draco.centerline.com> <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:03:18 GMT
Lines: 17

I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating
the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like
to bring up tachyons.
Einsteins theory only states that nothing can travel WITH the speed of
light. This means that you cannot accelerate to above the speed of light
from velocities less than the speed of light. (An infinite amount of
energy would be necessary).
However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c.
The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses.
One could still associate real energies to these particles, that are
singular at v=c. This means that these particles cannot slow down to
velocities<c.
Of course, no one has ever seen particles with imaginary masses....

Geert Spierings.


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!newshub.sdsu.edu!voyager4!melissa
From: melissa@voyager4.sdsu.edu (Melissa )
Subject: Erich Von Daniken
Message-ID: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu>
Sender: news@newshub.sdsu.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: voyager4.sdsu.edu
Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 09:14:33 GMT
Lines: 28



Hi, this is Mike.
I was just wondering if anyone out there took seriously
the theories and claims of famed author and traveler Erich Von
Daniken. While some of his statements are, I know, a little too
far-fetched and absurd to even be considered, there are a few
of his ideas which I've found to be quite convincing.
I have all of his books and have seen his movies, which
were based on his writings. I cannot believe that, in all the
vastness of the cosmos, there has not been any visitation to
the Earth in the past. After all, we are but a very young planet.
Responses?
Michael Whittington
mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu


--
+=============================================+==========================+
|I have existed from the morning of the World.|    Ain't Love Grand!     |
|And I shall exist until the last star falls  |--------------------------|
|from the Heavens. Although I have taken the  |      Send Mail To        |
|form of Caius Caligula, I am all men as I am |   mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu   |
|no man. And so........I am a God.            |  ignore melissa for now  |
+=============================================+==========================+
Please send no mail to melissa, as I am on a friends
account, and could quite possibly lose my priveleges.
My address is listed above........Michael Whittington.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7483 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1981
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!kth.se!vana!TORDM
From: tordm@vana (Tord Malmgren)
Subject: Tachyons (was Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <1992Jul23.105148.13665@kth.se>
Sender: usenet@kth.se (Usenet)
Nntp-Posting-Host: vana.physto.se
Reply-To: TordM@VanD.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden
References: <FRANL.92Jul20162056@draco.centerline.com> <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com>,<1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:51:48 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl>, spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes:

[...]
>However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c.
>The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses.
[...]

 as far as I understood Einstein's relativity it was only valid with speeds
less than "c", and what happened with speeds larger than "c" it could not
predict, so as far as I understand these Tachyons need not possess imaginary
mass at all; maybe they could be real, but how they got into that state no
theory tells us...





---------------+--------------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanD.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my own,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!axion!achaplin
From: achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Why America ?
Message-ID: <1992Jul23.114610@axion.bt.co.uk>
Date: 23 Jul 92 10:46:10 GMT
Sender: news@axion.bt.co.uk
Reply-To: achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin)
Organization: British Telecom Research Labs
Lines: 25


I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there

Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ?

Think about it logically,

1. Russia has vast tracks of barren, unpopulated lands. Compared to Russia the remote places in America really aren't that remote.

2. Russia's air traffic control and radar network is much less comphensive than the USA's, therefore the aliens could come and go more easily..

3. Russia, during the cold war was far behind the technology of the west and so would be willing to pay a higher price for alien technology ?

4. People could be silenced much more easily in the old Soviet Union than they could in the USA (except if your name was Silkwood !)

Therefore if these supposed aliens had observed the earth they would have found the Old Soviet Union a much more inviting place to build K-2 ??

But let me guess they do use the Soviet Union for bases, and someone somewhere (who also forgot his camera) has seen it !

Don't get me wrong I don't have a closed mind to aliens (otherwise I wouldn't subscript to this newsgroup) but massive alien bases in the USA ?

Cheers

Tony       
achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk   
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10905 alt.alien.visitors:7485 sci.skeptic:27804
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <62657@cup.portal.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:18:58 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62554@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Jul22.153119.375@talon.ucs.orst.edu>
  <1992Jul22.174720.16281@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <h7fmkyr@lynx.unm.edu>
  <62609@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11

Dear Fellow Travelers: Wow last night was really something else. About
23 years ago I became part of what is called the Sananda Sanat
Kamara Association. I volunteered to become an Empath which is a person
who takes on negative energy when something needs to be disipated. Last
night as I attempted to make contact with the people in this group by
astral projection things were going along pretty good and received a
good picture that was probubly one of the participants.  I then went
out of conciousness and received a lot of negative energy from many
sources.  At 0145 I woke up  and was in bad shape and with the idea
that I'd never try that again but I changed my mind and now plan to do
this same thing each wednesday at the same time. More much later. J. W.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7486 sci.skeptic:27805
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken
Message-ID: <62658@cup.portal.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:21:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu>
Lines: 61

In article <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu>
melissa@voyager4.sdsu.edu (Melissa ) [actually Mike] writes:

| I was just wondering if anyone out there took seriously
| the theories and claims of famed author and traveler Erich Von
| Daniken. While some of his statements are, I know, a little too
| far-fetched and absurd to even be considered, there are a few
| of his ideas which I've found to be quite convincing.
| [...]
| Responses?

Whether one subscribes to his theories or not, I *am* grateful to him
for presenting (in his books) some interesting mysteries and photos
of faraway places that I probably never would have an opportunity to
visit.

Some of his critics need to "chill out" and sit back and enjoy some
of the interesting artifacts presented (whether man-made or not); it's
simply not worth raising one's blood pressure in anger!  :-)

One of the most incredible things (to me) that I saw in person was during
the early 1950s in the Smithsonian (in Washington DC); I believe it was in
the Natural History Exhibit, and was labelled as tracks of unknown dinosaurs
and/or reptiles.

Some actual (and identifiable) dinosaur footprints were present in the rock,
along with what appeared to me (and these were the ones labelled as "unknown")
to be the tracks of a military jeep.  Two parallel tracks with about a 5 foot
separation (for some 15 feet, in the slab fragment) which resembled today's
high-tech all-weather tire-treads.  Tracks which were made millions of years
ago. Incredible; I'll never forget that sight; and when I uttered that thought
out loud (I was only about 8 years old then), everyone turned around and
looked at me strangely, yet no-one made any comments or smiled.  [ See below ]

Kinda like that "spark plug" found embedded in a crystalligerous rock in
N. California as shown in a photo in a book by one of V.Daniken's "imitators."

Mysteries.  Fascinating stuff.

Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]

---------- enclosure

My recollection of those "unknown" tracks is that they appeared as depicted
below.  The tracks remained parallel even though they were arced and they both
curved to the left (which I cannot reproduce with ASCII graphics):

              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|

---------- end enclosure
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU!jasonh
From: jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Jason Haines)
Subject: NASA's Block of Ice!
Message-ID: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU>
Sender: news@ucc.su.OZ.AU
Nntp-Posting-Host: extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Organization: Uni Computing Service, Uni of Sydney, Australia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:16:12 GMT
Lines: 21

I have just viewed the footage taken from the Space Shuttle, as shown on
Hard Copy (the Australian version), and I must say it is very interesting.

Firstly, to see an object change its direction of motion so radically is
an indication of intelligent control, especially when you see that it did so
to avoid proximity with a high speed object, be it a meteor or a rail-gun...

Secondly, the report on hard copy was pretty superficial, they had no
scientists to provide a professional opinion of the video...

Despite this, I must say that this video sequence show's the most significant
UFO in decades.

I'd like to see more discussion of this important piece of evidence.


--
________________________________________________________________________________
Jason Haines - System Operator, MacInTouch BBS (02) 743-5997 (TeleFinder Based)
jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU
________________________________________________________________________________
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <62659@cup.portal.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:32:25 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul18.090727.28652@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
  <62393@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 6

If all goes well, I plan to be in Malibu, caif. in the parking lot,
at a litte after 900 AM, Sunday the 26th of July, by the Michael
Landon Memorial Community Center.  Robert Stanley plans to pick me up
there and we're going on one of his all day tours to the ruins of the
ancient city.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7489 sci.skeptic:27806
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <62660@cup.portal.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:40:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul19.003451.17413@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
  <1992Jul20.184358.10709@news.eng.convex.com>
  <FRANL.92Jul20162056@draco.centerline.com>
  <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com>
  <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au>
Lines: 28

In article <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au>
news@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au <Big Al> writes:

|  [...]
|  To the observer aboard the object/craft, other objects around it would
|  appear to be the ones moving. Again they would not appear to be travelling
|  at above the speed of light but in fact they would not be where they appear
|  to be.  Collisions would be unavoidable if navigation was based on sight.
|  Computers could adjust for known objects, but uncharted small particles
|  would be disastrous unless the craft was protected by a "forcefield", as
|  they would hit before they were seen. Using some means of detection other
|  than light, it might be possible to navigate ad-hoc at above-light speed.
|  Is there any such method?
|  [...]

Detection; hmmm.

It seems to me that a "mass detector" would be required.  Such a detector
"should" be able to sense matter.  Whether one would have the compute power
to resolve individual objects based on the massive (no pun! :-) sensory input
is another matter!

Are not the effects of mass (and therefore gravity) instantaneously permeated
thoughout the (known) universe?  Or hasn't this issue been resolved?  I'm not
a physicist, so consider this as lay speculation/conjecture; I visit SLAC and
other such places, and I'm in awe of the experiments they conduct.

Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7490 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1982
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <fvgmdwa.payner@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 14:00:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl>
Lines: 32

In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes:
>I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating
>the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like
>to bring up tachyons.

Great, I'd love to see some. I assume you have a few from the way you
brought it up. :^)

>Einsteins theory only states that nothing can travel WITH the speed of
>light. This means that you cannot accelerate to above the speed of light
>from velocities less than the speed of light. (An infinite amount of
>energy would be necessary).
>However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c.
>The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses.

Then again, there may not. But all you need to do is create/detect
a few to get the ball rolling.

>One could still associate real energies to these particles, that are
>singular at v=c. This means that these particles cannot slow down to
>velocities<c.
>Of course, no one has ever seen particles with imaginary masses....
>
> Geert Spierings.


Rich

payner@netcom.com



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From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Message-ID: <1992Jul23.144101.29930@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
References:  <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:41:01 GMT
Lines: 36

Jason,[you write]:

>Despite this, I must say that this video sequence show's the most
significant
>UFO in decades.

>I'd like to see more discussion of this important piece of evidence.

If you look back when this story first aired here in the U.S., you will
find a tedious amount of discussion on the piece of ice/UFO. Also check the
alt.skeptics newsgroup.

I also have a question for you folks DOWN UNDER.(That's AUSTRAILIA for
those of you who don't know where down under is.) I recall that about 3-4
years ago that
an egg shaped craft buzzed a family in a car on some highway down there. As
I recall there was some material released by the craft & it was retrieved
by the occupants of the vehicle. The material was brought in for analysis &
that was the last I ever heard about it. I think a fishing boat offshore
also reported
seeing the craft about an hour later. There was quite a bit of news on the
incident back then, but as most  news stories go , the press never really
follows up.

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge."
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From: alanj@dadd.ti.com (Alan Jones,AMJ1,)
Subject: Re: Why America ?
Message-ID: <1992Jul23.140405.2340@csc.ti.com>
Sender: usenet@csc.ti.com
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Reply-To: alanj@dadd.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.
References: <1992Jul23.114610@axion.bt.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:04:05 GMT
Lines: 46

In article 114610@axion.bt.co.uk, achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin) writes:
>
>I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there
>
> Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ?
>
>Think about it logically,
>
> 1. Russia has vast tracks of barren, unpopulated lands. Compared to Russia the remote places in America really aren't that remote.
>
> 2. Russia's air traffic control and radar network is much less comphensive than the USA's, therefore the aliens could come and go more easily..
>
> 3. Russia, during the cold war was far behind the technology of the west and so would be willing to pay a higher price for alien technology ?
>
> 4. People could be silenced much more easily in the old Soviet Union than they could in the USA (except if your name was Silkwood !)
>
>Therefore if these supposed aliens had observed the earth they would have found the Old Soviet Union a much more inviting place to build K-2 ??
>
>But let me guess they do use the Soviet Union for bases, and someone somewhere (who also forgot his camera) has seen it !
>
>Don't get me wrong I don't have a closed mind to aliens (otherwise I wouldn't subscript to this newsgroup) but massive alien bases in the USA ?
>
>Cheers
>
>Tony       
>achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk   

Good point.  In fact, why not Antartica, northern Canada, or the middle of an
ocean?  The only reasons I can think of would be:

  a.  They are working with Americans which require access to the base.
  b.  Their work is in that area (outside the base, assuming they must leave
      the base to accomplish some part of their work), and fuel requirements for
      transits to/from the more remote locations is prohibitive.
  c.  Their work is in that area, and transits to/from more remote locations
      would increase the probability of detection.

It really comes down to this - why do they have a base on Earth at all?

Of course, the possible existence of an alien base in the U.S. does not preclude
the possibility of bases existing in these other, more remote, places either.

---
sincerely,
Alan Jones  /  Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX  /  email=alanj@dadd.ti.com

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From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli
Message-ID: <7wgm0nq@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 15:02:33 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Lines: 33

In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID
>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST?  The Pleiades are bright young stars still
>within their nebular cocoon.  They are along the order of millions of
>years old.  It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve
>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams.
>Are the Pleidians child prodigies?  Btw the first prokaryotes didn't
>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth.
>Thomas Freebairn

Indeed, unless current theories of planetary formation are WAY off
any planets that may have formed in around the stars in the cluster
would still be mostly molten!  Pretty tough guys if they live in
that type of enviroment.

Ithlial



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An Extensive Air Shower Array at the Meson Physics Facility
  Los Alamos National Labs

____________________________________________________________________________

My opinions are my own, don't you dare give someone else credit for them!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ***Good_Luck_for_Your_Astral_Convey***
Message-ID: <1992Jul23.144307.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:43:07 GMT
Sender: usenet@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News)
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Lines: 21
Nntp-Posting-Host: sara.cc.utu.fi


********************************************************************************
>>                                                                           >>
>> Dear Alexi,                                                          >>
>>                                                                           >>
>> Good luck for your Astral Convey Experiment. I hope it will goes     >>
>> perfectly and successly.                                             >>
>>                                                                      >>
>> Hope you can find that Crystal Star on X-1367 gallexy. But  take     >>
>>      care of the black hole on your way...                                >>
>> ---Captain. of Starshuttle   >>
>>                              >>
>>    John. K. Hillman          >>
>>                                                                           >>
********************************************************************************
>>                                                                           >>
>> Excuse me this is a short paragraph translated into English.         >>
>>                                                                           >>
>> The original resource is found from The ruins of  UFO craft.         >>
>>                                                                           >>
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 15:23:11 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <mBoaoB1w165w@spectrx.saigon.com> <1992Jul22.130451.21078@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <BrtoGA.Eov@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Lines: 28

In article <BrtoGA.Eov@watdragon.waterloo.edu> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>
> A supernova within 40 lightyears would be very very obvious
>(Apparent magnitude of ~ -21ish, I think) and could also be very very
>bad, wrt our current ecosystem. None of the ZR stars are SN candidates,
>though.
>
> James Nicoll

Another thing to think about is if the star had been a supernovae
candidate it would have been a red giant.  Which means that (a) it
would have been around apparent mag -6 or so and (b) it would have
engulfed or nearly engulfed any planets with orbtial radii similar
to the earth's (ie the range of orbital radii within which it is
thought necessary for a planet to have to be habital.)

Ithlial


My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go,
"What, was THAT?!"
 
 

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: astral travel
Message-ID: <vxgmwak@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 15:29:47 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <1992Jul22.231809.1936@mprgate.mpr.ca> <62637@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 20

In article <62637@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Len. If you would learn to use these gifts such as telepathy
>astral projection and a few others then no one would be able to lie
>to you.  Everyone would be an open book for you to read.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>John Winston.


Gosh, isn't that a pleasant thought!


My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go,
"What, was THAT?!"
 
 

Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!wellison
From: wellison@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Roswell Museum (UFO Engima)
Message-ID: <1992Jul23.110345.41842@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:03:45 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services
Lines: 11

In case anyone is travelling through Roswell, there is a museum there called
the 'UFO ENIGMA'. The curator is John Price and he did a excellent job in
re-creating the Roswell crash (complete with a saucer and four life sized
greys) from the available data. There are many actual newspaper articles and
documents about the crash at the museum. I spent three days down there while on
my way to the MUFON conference and met Clifford Stone (author of UFO Enigma)
while I was there. Great people. There is another museum in the works by Glenn
Dennis and Walter Haut in Roswell as well. If you go through, the museum is a
must see.

-=-=- Wes =-=-=
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7498 sci.skeptic:27815
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From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken
Message-ID: <1992Jul23.170148.919@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
References:  <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> <62658@cup.portal.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:01:48 GMT
Lines: 42

In article <62658@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part:
|> Whether one subscribes to his theories or not, I *am* grateful to him
|> for presenting (in his books) some interesting mysteries and photos
|> of faraway places that I probably never would have an opportunity to
|> visit.
|>
|> Some of his critics need to "chill out" and sit back and enjoy some
|> of the interesting artifacts presented (whether man-made or not); it's
|> simply not worth raising one's blood pressure in anger!  :-)
Tastes differ.  I have always found VD's stuff both boring and bogus.
REAL mysteries and archeology are much more interesting than VD's stuff,
as is REAL science fiction.  Unfortunately, his readers may never discover
that fact.

Anyway, I despise liars, and as I grow older I find it more and
more difficult to "chill out" about blatant and insincere dishonesty.

|> One of the most incredible things (to me) that I saw in person was during
|> the early 1950s in the Smithsonian (in Washington DC); I believe it was in
|> the Natural History Exhibit, and was labelled as tracks of unknown dinosaurs
|> and/or reptiles.
|>
|> Some actual (and identifiable) dinosaur footprints were present in the rock,
|> along with what appeared to me (and these were the ones labelled as "unknown")
|> to be the tracks of a military jeep.  Two parallel tracks with about a 5 foot
|> separation (for some 15 feet, in the slab fragment) which resembled today's
|> high-tech all-weather tire-treads.  Tracks which were made millions of years
|> ago. Incredible; I'll never forget that sight; and when I uttered that thought
|> out loud (I was only about 8 years old then), everyone turned around and
|> looked at me strangely, yet no-one made any comments or smiled.  [ See below ]
Incredible is the word.  This would be a lot harder to understand if I
hadn't read the classic science fiction story of that time from which
this little joke was taken.

Is there a correlation between reading science fiction and finding
VD and Forteans boring?  Maybe a cultivated Sense of Wonder raises
the level of Wonder you need to feel excited.

--
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
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From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Supraluminal v (was Re: Elapsed Time near c )
Message-ID: <v1gm!++@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:23:17 GMT
References: <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 81

In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes:
>I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating
>the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like

Hmm, what velocity do photons travel at?  I think you mean to say
that nothing with a rest mass can travel at c.

>to bring up tachyons.
>Einsteins theory only states that nothing can travel WITH the speed of
>light. This means that you cannot accelerate to above the speed of light
>from velocities less than the speed of light. (An infinite amount of
>energy would be necessary).
>However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c.
>The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses.
>One could still associate real energies to these particles, that are

No, the energy would be imaginary.  The relativistic formula for total
energy is E^2 = m^2*c^4 + p^2*c^2 = m^2*c^4 + m^2*gamma^2*v^2*c^2.
Where m is the rest mass (positive real) and gamma is the relativistic
factor equal to 1/sqrt(1-(v^2/c^2)) which for v > c is imaginary.
Thus the first term is positive real and the second is negative
real.  But the second term is larger in magnitude that the first:

E^2 = m^2*c^4 + m^2*v^2*c^2/(1-v^2/c^2)

we're only worried about the sign so I'm going to divide out the postive
things (rest mass and c), now we have E^2 is propotional to,

1 + (v^2/c^2)/(1-v^2c/^2)

putting it all over a common denominator,

= (1-(v^2/c^2) + (v^2/c^2))/(1-v^2/c^2)
= 1/(1-v^2/c^2)

which always negative since v>c and the square root of a negative
is imaginary.

>singular at v=c. This means that these particles cannot slow down to
>velocities<c.
>Of course, no one has ever seen particles with imaginary masses....

Especially because at there extension in space in the direction of
their progation is imaginary too, which I guess would make them two
dimensional?

>
> Geert Spierings.
>

An interesting argument that I have heard is that if time is quantized
(the hypothetical quanta of time is called a 'chronon') then you might
be able to skip going exactly c and your next quanta of  velocity would
be greater than c.  Mind you this is pure spectulation and I'm relating
this since I think its relevant to the discussion not because I necessarily
think it's possible.  In any event on would have question how small the
quanta is since te highest energy cosmic rays possess gamma factors of
10^11 (100,000,000,000) which translates into a velocity of
0.99999999999999999999995 the speed of light, meaning that the alleged
'chronon' is pretty damn small!  So if we are to get glose enough to
c to make the little hop to the 'other side' we're going to need
alot of energy.

Just a different way of looking at it.  Relativity and supraluminal
velocities are really strange.  And of course who knows if these
equations really describe supraluminal phenomena anyhow!

Ithlial the Archer


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