UFO/Alien message board part 3
Jamie P. Curmi (curmi@cs.mu.oz.au, curmi@maths.mu.oz.au) Department of Computer Science, Department of Mathematics The Un
iversity of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia
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*** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! ***
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu>
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <#8gm_lc@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:12:32 GMT
Lines: 9
I do not claim to be a physicist or even a hobbiest of quantum mechanics, but
if the first object was indeed ice that moved due to the shuttle's engines
(or whatever) then why did the first object that clearly seems to be furtherter
away move first? Would not the initial force applied by the shuttle act on
the nearer object first (supposed fired shot)? Accordingly, the UFO would not
have moved until the shot (or ice) arrived. Any explanations?
Joseph A. Citro III
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Re: Why America ?
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.031658.10283@news.unomaha.edu>
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <1992Jul23.140405.2340@csc.ti.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:16:58 GMT
Lines: 52
alanj@dadd.ti.com writes:
> In article 114610@axion.bt.co.uk, achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin) writes:
> >
> >I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there
> >
> > Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ?
> >
> >Think about it logically,
> >
> > 1. Russia has vast tracks of barren, unpopulated lands. Compared to Russia the remote places in America really aren't that remote.
> >
> > 2. Russia's air traffic control and radar network is much less comphensive than the USA's, therefore the aliens could come and go more easily..
> >
> > 3. Russia, during the cold war was far behind the technology of the west and so would be willing to pay a higher price for alien technology ?
> >
> > 4. People could be silenced much more easily in the old Soviet Union than they could in the USA (except if your name was Silkwood !)
> >
> >Therefore if these supposed aliens had observed the earth they would have found the Old Soviet Union a much more inviting place to build K-2 ??
> >
> >But let me guess they do use the Soviet Union for bases, and someone somewhere (who also forgot his camera) has seen it !
> >
> >Don't get me wrong I don't have a closed mind to aliens (otherwise I wouldn't subscript to this newsgroup) but massive alien bases in the USA ?
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Tony
> >achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk
>
> Good point. In fact, why not Antartica, northern Canada, or the middle of an
> ocean? The only reasons I can think of would be:
>
> a. They are working with Americans which require access to the base.
> b. Their work is in that area (outside the base, assuming they must leave
> the base to accomplish some part of their work), and fuel requirements for
> transits to/from the more remote locations is prohibitive.
> c. Their work is in that area, and transits to/from more remote locations
> would increase the probability of detection.
>
> It really comes down to this - why do they have a base on Earth at all?
>
> Of course, the possible existence of an alien base in the U.S. does not preclude
> the possibility of bases existing in these other, more remote, places either.
>
> ---
> sincerely,
> Alan Jones / Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX / email=alanj@dadd.ti.com
>
Why not use the moon as a base? (of course maybe they are). The close
proximity to Earth and the seclusion would make it ideal!
Joseph A. Citro III
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.config:8991 alt.alien.visitors:7519
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From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors
Followup-To: alt.config
Date: 24 Jul 1992 03:30:03 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
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Distribution: world
Message-ID: <l6uu9rINN8qf@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
References: <E8GHRW@taronga.com>
Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com
A number of netters have suggested that we should have a common
2nd-level name, and I agree. But so far none of them has come up with a
good one. Let's try "strange", so that we have the newsgroup
alt.alien.visitors split and renamed as follows:
alt.strange.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
alt.strange.aliens - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
alt.strange.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
alt.strange.mutilations - strange mutilations
alt.strange.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments
All these work except the last. We could try "anomaly":
alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
alt.anomaly.aliens - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations
alt.anomaly.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments
Well, better, but still too broad. What all these groups have in common is
their suspected link to aliens. We could try making the second name "alien"
and use a different name for the second group:
alt.alien.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
alt.alien.meetings - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
alt.alien.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
alt.alien.mutilations - strange mutilations
alt.alien.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments
Now there is a problem with the first, third and fourth groups -- the
presumed link to "aliens" is too strong while other explanations remain
open.
That leaves one other possibility, using two 2nd-level names:
alt.alien.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments
alt.alien.meetings - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations
alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
This last looks to me like the best solution so far. Perhaps others have some
better ideas. Two 2nd-level names convey the degree of certainty of the
alien connection to the events discussed.
Some of the postings now made to alt.paranormal might also belong to new
groups under alt.anomaly if they concern specific events that suggest
something alien, as distinct from something mystical or supernatural.
---
jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:34:27 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.033427.19836@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Summary: ufo vs ice chunk - flash, it moved
References: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU>
Lines: 17
In article <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Jason Haines) writes:
> I have just viewed the footage taken from the Space Shuttle, as shown on
> Hard Copy (the Australian version), and I must say it is very interesting.
>
I finally got to view this segment on Larry King(and taped it).
It looked convincing if one could only ignore that Flash just
prior to the chunk changing direction. The flash had to cause the
direction change(or quite a coincidence of timing).
The other streak one views after the [ice] moves away seems unrelated
as it's tragectory is farther left of the [ice]and could be anything.
Anyway, the large flash on the left, and the coincidental zip of
the object away from the flash leaves me with ice in my mouth:-)
I since erased the tape to move onto other audio-visual pastimes.
barry--
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10925 alt.alien.visitors:7521 sci.skeptic:27840
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <62695@cup.portal.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 22:36:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com>
<cass8806.108@elan.glassboro.edu> <l6u3buINN9fc@news.bbn.com>
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Sorry everybody I don't have any time to read or post anything except
this posting today. Catch you people later if possible.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: WIR's [Was MIB]
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.023517.18831@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Date: 24 Jul 92 02:35:17 GMT
References: <1992Jul21.022007.4543@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <1992Jul22.133814.16273@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 15
In article <1992Jul22.133814.16273@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>, rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Evans) writes:
> EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu writes:
>
> >In article <1992Jul21.022007.4543@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
> >rosch@cpdw.enet.dec.com (Ray Rosch) writes:
> >I'd suggest you watch the movie: The Thin Blue Line, wherein we learn
> >that the famous LIR was actually a LIO (Lady in Orange).
>
> <<<* Hey I really dig the sense of humour that this group seems to be developing "No maam...we're musicians"
> UFO's are *serious* business but you gotta laugh...least I do.
>
Yes, I agree. I like to have fun sometimes-please no offense to the
really,really serious buffs out there:-)
barry--
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From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: astral travel
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.040144.20572@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:01:44 GMT
References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <62637@cup.portal.com>
Followup-To: alt.aliens.visitors
Organization: AT&T
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In article <62637@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear Len. If you would learn to use these gifts such as telepathy
> astral projection and a few others then no one would be able to lie
> to you. Everyone would be an open book for you to read.
> John Winston.
You could work in the president's cabinet to weed out liars, cheats,
frauds, and weazels. You could save this country!
You could work for Judges, Lawyers, why even the RTC!
Aw who am i kidding, John would be God.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7524 sci.skeptic:27844
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.071910.6659@cco.caltech.edu>
Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
References: <1992Jul19.003451.17413@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jul20.184358.10709@news.eng.convex.com> <FRANL.92Jul20162056@draco.centerline.com> <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au>,<62660@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 07:19:10 GMT
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In article <62660@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>It seems to me that a "mass detector" would be required. Such a detector
>"should" be able to sense matter. Whether one would have the compute power
>to resolve individual objects based on the massive (no pun! :-) sensory input
>is another matter!
>
>Are not the effects of mass (and therefore gravity) instantaneously permeated
>thoughout the (known) universe? Or hasn't this issue been resolved? I'm not
>a physicist, so consider this as lay speculation/conjecture; I visit SLAC and
>other such places, and I'm in awe of the experiments they conduct.
Current theory says that gravitational waves do NOT travel instantaneously.
If they DID travel instantaneously, there'd be no possibility of LIGO (Laser
Interferometry Gravitational Observatory?) working.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Stealth Manuscript
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.083433.12878@news.unomaha.edu>
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:34:33 GMT
Lines: 25
Someone posted an article in the last few weeks (in alt.alien.visitors)
about a supposed politician whom had claimed to have been abducted. No
names were given as to which politician this might be. However last night
(23 July) I found the following article in TIME magazines July 27, 1992
issue.
"Here Comes The Stealth Manuscript"
"Booksellers are grinding their teeth over several big Ross Perot books
that have been cancelled on the eve of publication. BUT SOMETHING BIGGER
MAY BE COMING SOON (my emphasis). Putnam is preparing to ship more than
100,000 copies of a supersecret book in late August. The publisher is
keeping both the subject and the author completely confidential. According
to buyers for the major chains, Putnam executives have been whispering that
it is a biography of a major Washington official that contains information
so explosive it could cause his or her resignation. This has prompted a
guessing game within the industry, but Putnam executives say only
'No Comment.'"
Anticipation will antagonize me until late August! I certainly hope that
this will not turn out to be hoax.
Joseph A. Citro III
jcitro3@odin.unomaha.edu
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From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken
Message-ID: <62705@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 02:17:24 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu>
<62658@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul23.170148.919@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Lines: 45
In article <1992Jul23.170148.919@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
>In article <62658@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes
in part:
>|>[...]
>|> Some actual (and identifiable) dinosaur footprints were present in the rock
,
>|> along with what appeared to me (and these were the ones labelled as "unknow
n")
>|> to be the tracks of a military jeep. Two parallel tracks with about a 5 fo
ot
>|> separation (for some 15 feet, in the slab fragment) which resembled today's
>|> high-tech all-weather tire-treads. Tracks which were made millions of year
s
>|> ago. Incredible; I'll never forget that sight; and when I uttered that thou
ght
>|> out loud (I was only about 8 years old then), everyone turned around and
>|> looked at me strangely, yet no-one made any comments or smiled. [ See belo
w ]
>
>Incredible is the word. This would be a lot harder to understand if I
>hadn't read the classic science fiction story of that time from which
>this little joke was taken.
If it's a joke, then it's one on me [for I was there].
However, I'm not going to "defend" my remembrance since nearly 40 years have
elapsed (this was about 1952-1953; we lived in the area from 1951 to 1956).
And at that (original) time I was in the company of my Dad who desired to
tour the entire Museum in one day (he was like that; and the museum occupied
an entire city block [it was HUGE]).
Next time I'm in DC, I'll make a point to re-visit that Smithsonian exhibit
and attempt to collect more info; this cannot be until at least mid-1993.
One correspondent commented that perhaps the tracks were those of amphibians'
flippers. 'Spossible (and more plausible!) All I stated was that the tracks
bore a resemblance to tire tracks, NOT that they were tire tracks! :-)
As for science-fiction, could not the author have seen the same exhibit which
stimulated HIS story? Have you a reference [title, author, etc.]?
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]
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From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <62706@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 02:43:20 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com>
<1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <62660@cup.portal.com>
<a7gm+nj@lynx.unm.edu>
Lines: 26
In article <a7gm+nj@lynx.unm.edu>
cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
| [...]
| The idea behind special relativity is that information cannot be conveyed
| from place to place at a velocity exceeding the speed of light. Since
| gravity betrays the presence of matter its effects cannot propogate
| faster than the speed of light. Another way to look at it that gravity
| like other forces is conveyed by bosons. Bosons, depending on if they
| are massive or not travel at the below or at the speed of light
| respectively.
| [...]
Nicely explained; thanks! (Ever think of becoming a science writer? :-)
Now we have the problem of the Black Hole (I need to get a copy of Hawkings'
book(s)): given that a BH is so massive it prevents photon emission, can one
infer that gravity "outreaches" light? I thought photons were massless, so
what is the attractor? Must the answer await the formulation of a Unified
Field Theory?
Could a BH be detectable by OTHER than observed perturbations of other masses?
In other words: does a BH radiate "anything", or is it the ABSENCE of radiation
and other energies that defines an instance or the presence of a BH?
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7528 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1989
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!siesoft!imw
From: imw@siesoft.co.uk (Ian Wild)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Tachyons (was Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.151247.18524@siesoft.co.uk>
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:12:47 GMT
References: <1992Jul23.105148.13665@kth.se>
Sender: news@siesoft.co.uk (Usenet News)
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.
Lines: 19
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
tordm@vana (Tord Malmgren) writes:
: In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl>, spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes:
:
: [...]
: >However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c.
: >The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses.
: [...]
:
: as far as I understood Einstein's relativity it was only valid with speeds
: less than "c", and what happened with speeds larger than "c" it could not
: predict, so as far as I understand these Tachyons need not possess imaginary
: mass at all; maybe they could be real, but how they got into that state no
: theory tells us...
:
Wouldn't tachyons have to travel at >c relative to *everything*? Including
themselves?
imw
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10931 alt.alien.visitors:7529 sci.skeptic:27852
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <62709@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:18:19 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com>
<cass8806.108@elan.glassboro.edu> <l6u3buINN9fc@news.bbn.com>
<62695@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 9
Dear Fellow Earthlings: Here it is Friday morning 0607 and things look
pretty good. If it's God's will and if the creek doesn't rise
I hope to go down to Southern Calif. and go on a tour of the ruins
of a 30,000 year old city.
In case we ever accomplish something with all of this astral projection
project and other things be sure and don't think it's something that
I did or figured out myself. It's like the western song, I've got
friends in low places, except just the opposite.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Linesj
Message-ID: <62710@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:21:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com>
<62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu> <62611@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 3
Dear Everybody:
I'll be going on a tour of an acient city this Sunday.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7531 sci.skeptic:27853
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From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: astral travel
Message-ID: <62711@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:25:46 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <62637@cup.portal.com>
<1992Jul24.040144.20572@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Lines: 4
Dear Friend and the rest of you people:
I don't have time right now to talk. I hope to go on a tour of an
ancient city this Sunday, see ya later.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ***Good_Luck_for_Your_Astral_Convey***
Message-ID: <62712@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:28:09 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul23.144307.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>
Lines: 3
Dear John H.
Haven't any time but will comment on this later.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7533 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1990
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
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From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: Supraluminal v (was Re: Elapsed Time near c )
Message-ID: <9thm!zg@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 13:52:32 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> <v1gm!++@lynx.unm.edu>
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In article <v1gm!++@lynx.unm.edu> cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes:
>>I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating
>>the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like
>
>Hmm, what velocity do photons travel at? I think you mean to say
>that nothing with a rest mass can travel at c.
Opps, scratch that statement I apparently can't read, and also to save
everyone else the bother I'll go ahead and flame myself:
You stupid, blithering, idiot; CAN'T YOU EVEN READ YOUR NATIVE TONGUE!
Ithlial
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From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <4whmq#-@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:03:33 GMT
References: <BrtoGA.Eov@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu> <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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In article <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>In article <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
>> Another thing to think about is if the star had been a supernovae
>> candidate it would have been a red giant. Which means that (a) it
>> would have been around apparent mag -6 or so and (b) it would have
>> engulfed or nearly engulfed any planets with orbtial radii similar
>> to the earth's (ie the range of orbital radii within which it is
>> thought necessary for a planet to have to be habital.)
>>
>> Ithlial
>
>Just to be the >:-)> advocate: would not the "comfort zone" for planetary
>radii be moved outward for a star massive enough to become a red giant?
>Not that the fact that the star turned into a red giant would not destroy
>the environment of any habitable planet no matter what its orbital radii
>was (or that such a star would not stick around long enough to evovle
>higher life.)
You're entirely correct in saying that the comfort zone (CZ) will move
out. Unfortunately you guess that the red giant phase is too short
is also true. Usually the phase lasts a few 100 million years, in addition
the luminosity is fluctating which will cause the CZ to move (although
not as much as the intially change to red giant caused it too move.
Note that lower forms of life like algaes and the like took a billion
years to evolve.
>
>Thomas Freebairn * I wish I had an employer
> * whose opinions mine were not.
Ithlial
My opinions, mine, mine, mine!
I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go,
"What, was THAT?!"
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From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.151859.118@crc.ac.uk>
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:18:59 GMT
References: <20JUN199221455246@zeus.tamu.edu> <61899@cup.portal.com> <62320@cup.portal.com>
Sender: news@crc.ac.uk
Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 25
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium
In article <62320@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear Steve:
> It's good to hear that Stanton Friedman's book Crash at Corona is out.
> I once mentioned to Stan that I didn't believe exactly like he did and
> he would probubly call me and my friends a bunch of kooks. He mentioned
> that he had work with some pretty weird people before. Anyway he
> sticks with what he is doing and came out with the book.
> John Winston.
No you have it wrong John, Stan would not call you a kook, he prefers
to call people who are not true believers as 'noisy negativists'. :) :)
I think that having a second team in the form of Kevin Randle and Don Schmit
actively investigating the Roswell case is a good thing. They challenge
a number of statements Stan makes and he returns the compliment. At times
it looks as if World War Three is going on between them, but I guess it
makes them all check what they say.
Steve.
--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk
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From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <ryhm-zd@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:08:46 GMT
References: <62660@cup.portal.com> <a7gm+nj@lynx.unm.edu> <62706@cup.portal.com>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 79
In article <62706@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>In article <a7gm+nj@lynx.unm.edu>
>cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
>
>| [...]
>| The idea behind special relativity is that information cannot be conveyed
>| from place to place at a velocity exceeding the speed of light. Since
>| gravity betrays the presence of matter its effects cannot propogate
>| faster than the speed of light. Another way to look at it that gravity
>| like other forces is conveyed by bosons. Bosons, depending on if they
>| are massive or not travel at the below or at the speed of light
>| respectively.
>| [...]
>
>Nicely explained; thanks! (Ever think of becoming a science writer? :-)
>
>Now we have the problem of the Black Hole (I need to get a copy of Hawkings'
>book(s)): given that a BH is so massive it prevents photon emission, can one
>infer that gravity "outreaches" light? I thought photons were massless, so
>what is the attractor? Must the answer await the formulation of a Unified
>Field Theory?
>
The reason that information about mass (and charge and angular momnetum) is
conveyed to the universe out side the evet horizon is that the gravitons
that mediate the gravitational field and the photons that mediate the
electromagnetic field are what we call 'vitrual' particles. The aren't
real in anyway that we know it, their existence is implied only by the
force they mediate. Also we do know the state of the star before it
becomes a black hole. So with a couple of conservation laws and some
arithmetic we know what goes into the singularity, so we're not learning
anything that we didn't know about before. The reason real photons
can't get out can be thought of a couple of ways. One can assign the photon
a mass based on the classical formula p = mv, where v=c for a photon.
The momentum of a photon comes from the formual for total energy of
a particle with no mass, E = pc. Beleive it or not this works, even
though we're mixing relativistic and classical formulae. (In a side
light the formula for calculating the event horizon can be done classically
and it works out correctly too) So you use the mass that to calculate
the force, and newton's F = dp/dt and you see that you need any infinte
amount of momentum (ie energy) to escape from the event horizon and
probably an imaginary amount to get out from within the EH.
>Could a BH be detectable by OTHER than observed perturbations of other masses?
>In other words: does a BH radiate "anything", or is it the ABSENCE of
>radiation
>and other energies that defines an instance or the presence of a BH?
>
The way that astronomers detect what are probably black holes is
fairly straight forward. We observe a binary system in which on of the
companions is emitting high energy radiation, like x-rays and gamma rays.
In the type of binary system these obervations are made one companion is
large, some type of giant star, red giants work best, while the other
is compact and pulls material off the larger star. Red giants work
best since they are largest and their outermost material is only loosely
bound. Since it is emitting this high energy radiation, we know that the
material must be very hot (ie posses alot of kinetic energy). The easiest
way to get kinetic energy is to fall down, stairs, cliffs or the potential
well of a massive object. So since the marterial is so energetic it must
have fallen a long way, threfore the object that the stuff is falling onto
is pretty small, ie smaller than a small star, even a white dwarf.
Another way to put upper limits on size is by measuring the time scale
over which the luminousity varies. The time scale time the speed of
light is an absolute upperbound on the size of the region that's
doing the varying. Anyhow if its smaller than a white dwarf it's a
neutron star or a blackhole, which depends on the mass. Now since the
stars are rotating about eachother at a rate we can measure we can
with the help of the law of gravitation determine their masses. If
the mass is too high for the neutron degeneracy to keep it from collapsing
then it's a blackhole, otherwise it's a neutron star.
Ithlial
My opinions, mine, mine, mine!
To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
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From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Message-ID: <qzhmj++@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:45:03 GMT
References: <#8gm_lc@lynx.unm.edu> <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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In article <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes:
>I do not claim to be a physicist or even a hobbiest of quantum mechanics, but
>if the first object was indeed ice that moved due to the shuttle's engines
>(or whatever) then why did the first object that clearly seems to be
>furtherter
>away move first? Would not the initial force applied by the shuttle act on
>the nearer object first (supposed fired shot)? Accordingly, the UFO would not
>have moved until the shot (or ice) arrived. Any explanations?
>
> Joseph A. Citro III
>
How can you say that any of the objects is clearly further away than any
of the others? There aren't a lot of visual clues in the video that allow
you to determine the distances of the ice flecks.
Ithlial
My opinions, mine, mine, mine!
To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi
Subject: <None>
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.201506.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>
Lines: 1
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Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:15:06 EET
Lines: 1
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From: aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account)
Subject: Re: ***Good_Luck_for_Your_Astral_Convey***
Message-ID: <aero.711995750@neptune>
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References: <1992Jul23.144307.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> <62712@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:35:50 GMT
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John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear John H.
>Haven't any time but will comment on this later.
>John Winston.
Would someone please teach Mr. Winston about the subtleties and
nuances which distinguish "followup" from "reply?"
--------
Jonathan A. Bishop
aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu
"Yippee! That may have been a small one for Neil,
but it was a big one for me."
--Pete Conrad
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account)
Subject: Re: Ley Linesj
Message-ID: <aero.711995673@neptune>
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Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:34:33 GMT
Lines: 17
John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Everybody:
>I'll be going on a tour of an acient city this Sunday.
>John Winston.
And I'll be going camping this weekend.
(Just thought Everybody might like to know that).
--------
Jonathan A. Bishop
aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu
"Yippee! That may have been a small one for Neil,
but it was a big one for me."
--Pete Conrad
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.202447.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>
Lines: 29
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Organization: University of Turku, Finland
References: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU> <1992Jul24.033427.19836@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:24:47 EET
Lines: 29
>>In article <1992Jul24.033427.19836@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>, press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Jason Haines) writes:
>> I have just viewed the footage taken from the Space Shuttle, as shown on
>> Hard Copy (the Australian version), and I must say it is very interesting.
>>
>> I finally got to view this segment on Larry King(and taped it).
>>
>> It looked convincing if one could only ignore that Flash just
>> prior to the chunk changing direction. The flash had to cause the
>> direction change(or quite a coincidence of timing).
>> The other streak one views after the [ice] moves away seems unrelated
>> as it's tragectory is farther left of the [ice]and could be anything.
>>
>> Anyway, the large flash on the left, and the coincidental zip of
>> the object away from the flash leaves me with ice in my mouth:-)
>> I since erased the tape to move onto other audio-visual pastimes.
>>
>>
Hi, Alexi,
Thanks for your tape. That realy works.
Good luck for your experiment. Have a enjoyable tour.
By the way, take care of those bad potatos you deal with some days.
I am busy now to write too many papers to my prof. So let me see,
what will happen:)
J.Hillman
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.124506.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
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References: <BrtoGA.Eov@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu> <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <4whmq#-@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:45:06 -0500
In article <4whmq#-@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
> In article <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>>In article <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
>
> You're entirely correct in saying that the comfort zone (CZ) will move
> out. Unfortunately you guess that the red giant phase is too short
> is also true. Usually the phase lasts a few 100 million years, in addition
> the luminosity is fluctating which will cause the CZ to move (although
> not as much as the intially change to red giant caused it to move.
> Ithlial
Interesting point (that I had never thought about.) I was talking about
main sequence lifetime for a star with enough mass to become red _super_
giant. Are not these the ones that reach such proportions?
Thomas Freebairn
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From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.175845.18683@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> <62705@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:58:45 GMT
Lines: 25
In article <62705@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part:
|> If it's a joke, then it's one on me [for I was there].
That's what I meant.
I tend to suspect you could have seen a plaster cast of footprints
with jeep tracks added. Easy enough to do. Pretty funny, too.
|> As for science-fiction, could not the author have seen the same exhibit which
|> stimulated HIS story? Have you a reference [title, author, etc.]?
Yes, the causation could very well be the other way.
If I had the reference I would have posted it. :-) I'm still searching.
I think this was in a collection of short stories by Arthur C. Clarke.
Anyone want to help out here?
|> One correspondent commented that perhaps the tracks were those of amphibians'
|> flippers. 'Spossible (and more plausible!) All I stated was that the tracks
|> bore a resemblance to tire tracks, NOT that they were tire tracks! :-)
Ahem. Actually, you were pretty darn certain that they were tire tracks
in your previous posting.
--
Robert E. McGrath
Urbana Illinois
mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
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From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info On Mib
Message-ID: <TVoBoB5w164w@cellar.org>
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:55:52 GMT
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Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS)
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John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear People: If a person believes the Condon Report I truely feel
> sorry for that person. We spent about 55,000 dollars on that report
> to get information on the space people when we have recovered live
> space people (the good type) from crashes. We subjest them to
> questioning then when they don't answer us to give us their advanced
> technology we put them in liquid nitrogen for extended periods of
> time. Every so often we unthaw them and ask them some more questions.
> If they don't give us the information we want then we refreeze them
> again. It reminds me of the old song God's Going To Get You For That.
Gee, and they say FUR kills.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill
Gates to run."
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From: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.165240.16892@acuson.com>
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:52:40 GMT
References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> <cass8806.108@elan.glassboro.edu> <1992Jul23.182915.22178@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> <1992Jul23.191218.4759@walter.bellcore.com>
Reply-To: lawson@aldia.UUCP (Drew Lawson)
Organization: ACUSON, Mountain View, CA
Lines: 10
In article <1992Jul23.191218.4759@walter.bellcore.com> mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) writes:
>I had a dream that grey empaths dressed in black had taken over New
>Jersey.....
But would anybody notice?
--
Drew Lawson If you're not part of the solution,
lawson@acuson.com you're part of the precipitate
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From: tjh@agni.world.std.com (Tim Hall)
Subject: Re: Stealth Manuscript
In-Reply-To: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu's message of Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:34:33 GMT
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References: <1992Jul24.083433.12878@news.unomaha.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:50:33 GMT
Lines: 35
In article <1992Jul24.083433.12878@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes:
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:34:33 GMT
Lines: 25
.
.
.
MAY BE COMING SOON (my emphasis). Putnam is preparing to ship more than
100,000 copies of a supersecret book in late August. The publisher is
keeping both the subject and the author completely confidential. According
to buyers for the major chains, Putnam executives have been whispering that
it is a biography of a major Washington official that contains information
so explosive it could cause his or her resignation. This has prompted a
guessing game within the industry, but Putnam executives say only
'No Comment.'"
Joseph A. Citro III
jcitro3@odin.unomaha.edu
The Boston Globe reported that a scathing book on Ted Kennedy is supposed
to come out soon. It is written by a former (disgruntled?) aide and is
supposed to contain lots of dirt. Sounds like what you mention above.
--
-Tim
I'm not trying to kill myself. I just don't want to feel.
(unknown)
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From: ldoering@engin.umich.edu (Laurence Doering)
Subject: Time's Arrow (fossil tire tracks)
Message-ID: <3dS-gcA@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 15:37:18 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
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In article <1992Jul24.175845.18683@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>In article <62705@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part:
>|> If it's a joke, then it's one on me [for I was there].
>That's what I meant.
>
>I tend to suspect you could have seen a plaster cast of footprints
>with jeep tracks added. Easy enough to do. Pretty funny, too.
>
>|> As for science-fiction, could not the author have seen the same exhibit which
>|> stimulated HIS story? Have you a reference [title, author, etc.]?
>Yes, the causation could very well be the other way.
>
>If I had the reference I would have posted it. :-) I'm still searching.
>I think this was in a collection of short stories by Arthur C. Clarke.
>Anyone want to help out here?
I don't remember the name of the short story collection, but the story is
called "Time's Arrow", and is by Arthur C. Clarke. (Paleontologists travel
back in time with jeep & equipment, never return; colleagues later discover
fossil jeep tire tracks overlaid with carnivorous dinosaur footprints,
with increasing spacing, as if the dinosaur was CHASING SOMETHING...)
ljd
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!gumby!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3
From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.201947.19093@news.unomaha.edu>
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <qzhmj++@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:19:47 GMT
Lines: 37
cary@carina.unm.edu writes:
> In article <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes:
> >I do not claim to be a physicist or even a hobbiest of quantum mechanics, but
> >if the first object was indeed ice that moved due to the shuttle's engines
> >(or whatever) then why did the first object that clearly seems to be
> >furtherter
> >away move first? Would not the initial force applied by the shuttle act on
> >the nearer object first (supposed fired shot)? Accordingly, the UFO would not
> >have moved until the shot (or ice) arrived. Any explanations?
> >
> > Joseph A. Citro III
> >
> How can you say that any of the objects is clearly further away than any
> of the others? There aren't a lot of visual clues in the video that allow
> you to determine the distances of the ice flecks.
>
> Ithlial
>
>
> My opinions, mine, mine, mine!
>
> To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
> and the dancers hit eachother.
There is a problem determining depth and distance with the type of camera
used to tape the possible UFO event by the shuttle. However, it is not
impossible to do so. The camera used operates very similar to night
vision devices used in the military. I have had extensive use of this
type of equipment. Particularly, what are called PV-S5 night vision goggles,
and the PV-S2 starlight scope. If it were impossible to determine depth
and distance with these devices it would not be possible to use them for
hitting enemy targets. Yes, it is my opinion that the object that moved
first was further away. But, my opinon is based on experience with
similar equipment.
Joseph A. Citro III
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10938 alt.alien.visitors:7550 sci.skeptic:27877
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From: caina@merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.144455.2016@merrimack.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:44:55 GMT
References: <62554@cup.portal.com><1992Jul22.153119.375@talon.ucs.orst.edu><1992Jul22.174720.16281@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <h7fmkyr@lynx.unm.edu> <62609@cup.portal.com>
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA
Lines: 26
In article <62609@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear Everybody: I don't have time to say much. A person by the name
> of Kumar in Germany has been sending me E-mail and my E-mail has not
> been getting back to him so I sent him a telepathic message. He wrote
> me yesterday that he was aware of me sending him a telepathic message
> and that I had woken him up and had also appeared in his dreams. This
> has happened to me and other people before. On sunday and monday nights
> I did a little warm up astral projection. Remember tonight at 1100 PM
> it the time we'll do the experiment.
> John Winston.
Now this is good...From now on when I call someone and the line is busy...
I'll send them a telepathic message. Why do I get the feeling you believe
you've talked to Elvis in your local K-mart?
Now kids...Pay attention, By smoking some weird foreign substance, you too
can post weird messages.
Alex
*****************************************************************************
Stand your ground, Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have
a war...let it begin here!
Captain Parker
April 19, 1775
Battle of Lexington
*****************************************************************************
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7551 sci.skeptic:27887
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!apple!news.oc.com!convex!swarren
From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.220747.18157@news.eng.convex.com>
Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnum.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <62660@cup.portal.com> <a7gm+nj@lynx.unm.edu> <62706@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:07:47 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 51
In article <62706@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>Now we have the problem of the Black Hole (I need to get a copy of Hawkings'
>book(s)): given that a BH is so massive it prevents photon emission, can one
>infer that gravity "outreaches" light? I thought photons were massless, so
>what is the attractor? Must the answer await the formulation of a Unified
>Field Theory?
Well, this is a lot more complex than special relativity; the effects of
black holes are described by the general theory of relativity. Basically
general relativity says that a gravitational field is equivalent to a
reference frame that is accelerating at a rate equal to the gravitational
acceleration of the field. Obviously this changes depending on where you
are in the field, but you get the idea.
Light cannot escape from a black hole because it is infinitely red-shifted
as it journeys through the gravitational field, to the point that it no
longer contains any energy.
>Could a BH be detectable by OTHER than observed perturbations of other masses?
>In other words: does a BH radiate "anything",or is it the ABSENCE of radiation
>and other energies that defines an instance or the presence of a BH?
There will probably be some innaccuracies here, so be patient, but here
is the mechanism as I understand it:
Apparently the background quantum fluctuations that constantly percolate
throughout the universe provide a mechanism for radiation to be emitted
from a black hole. Quantum theory provides for a finite non-zero proba-
bility that at any point in space and time a particle and its anti-
particle may spontanously come into existance out of "nothing". Under
normal circumstances these "virtual particles" instantly annihilate one
another. The energy from the annihilation never really existed; the
virtual particles came into existance owing the universe for their mass,
so when they annihilate each other they simply disappear without emitting
any photons or other particles.
At the edge of a black hole, on the boundary between escape and consumption,
these virtual particles form and are ripped apart by tidal forces before
they can recombine. The black hole consumes one of them, and the other
escapes. The mass for the particle that escapes comes out of the mass of
the black hole. This is a form of quantum tunneling similar to what happens
electrically in a tunnel diode. Only this time it is a gravity well that
the particle "tunnels" out of, rather than an electrical potential well.
The result is that black holes gradually evaporate over time. The rate
is very slow, however.
--
_.
--Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
Warren v\ *| -----------------------------------------------
V
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7552 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1991
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch
From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <7696@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:31:57 GMT
References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <aero.711820272@titan>
Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Cyberdyne Systems
Lines: 28
In article <aero.711820272@titan> aero@titan.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account) writes:
>it seems you think you accept relativity. But the second part shows that you
>have a faulty understanding of it. NOTE: RELATIVITY PROHIBITS TRAVEL AT
>C OR ABOVE!!!! PERIOD. Furthermore, relativity prohibits the transmission
>of any information by any means at speeds faster than light.
Idle speculation from someone whose ignorance
of physics is massive (pun intended):
Does the influence of gravity act instantaneously? Suppose you had
a mass detector of some sort, and you were detecting mass X at
a distance of say, 1 LY. If that mass were moved suddenly, wouldn't
your mass detector note the movement instantly? What glaring blunder
have I committed?
Bonus Round related question:
Do two masses always interact gravitationally, regardless of the
distance between them? I mean "at all", not "negligible".
I know, there are more appropriate forums for this stuff, but hey,
I'm not going to parade my ignorance in front of the _smart_guys_.
--
DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch
From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli
Message-ID: <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:47:22 GMT
References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU
Organization: Cyberdyne Systems
Lines: 30
In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID
>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST? The Pleiades are bright young stars still
>within their nebular cocoon. They are along the order of millions of
>years old. It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve
>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams.
>Are the Pleidians child prodigies? Btw the first prokaryotes didn't
>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth.
>Thomas Freebairn
I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the
Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally
evolve in what is now their home system. As for the Pleiades,
how far away are they? You would want to add their distance to
their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age,
right?
Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused
by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in
binary or trinary star systems?
Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education
is truly worthless? :-)
--
DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7554 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1992
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!west.West.Sun.COM!smaug.West.Sun.COM!richard
From: Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM (Richard M. Mathews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Tachyons (was Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Date: 25 Jul 1992 00:19:37 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <14q6mpINNg3b@smaug.West.Sun.COM>
References: <1992Jul23.105148.13665@kth.se> <1992Jul24.151247.18524@siesoft.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: astro
Originator: richard@astro.West.Sun.COM
imw@siesoft.co.uk (Ian Wild) writes:
>Wouldn't tachyons have to travel at >c relative to *everything*? Including
>themselves?
Tachyons are truly bizarre. Two of them going at >c straight at each
other would actually be going at <c relative to each other! For example,
plug +2c and -2c into the relative velocity formula
v_rel = (v1 - v2) / (1 - v1*v2/c^2)
= (+2c - -2c) / (1 - (2c)(-2c)/c^2)
= 4c / (1 + 4)
= - 4/5 c
!!!
Richard M. Mathews G eorge
D epression
Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM B ush casts a
G loom on us all
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: Ley Linesj
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 01:50:25 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.015025.19803@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
References: <6200@bar.puke.astral.com>
Lines: 5
Hi Everyone,
I'm gonna get totally jaked and blow lunch this sunday.
later,
barry--
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10945 alt.alien.visitors:7556 sci.skeptic:27889
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From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62755@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 19:09:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <ueRaoB6w164w@uuisis.isis.org>
Lines: 3
Dear Doug: It sounds like you have a clear alert mind and your not
afraid to stand out from the other people and say what you think.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10946 alt.alien.visitors:7557 sci.skeptic:27890
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62762@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 20:12:27 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <ueRaoB6w164w@uuisis.isis.org>
<62755@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11
Dear Astral Folks: The results of the first weekly Astral Convoy was as
follows the person we called E started his astral journey in good order
hitching up with me (I think) and I got a picture of a male person sort of
handsome, looking out to his left and my right. He is white. We then went
over to Hawaii and woke up a lady whoes first name starts with the letter
K (I think). She woke up at 3:30 am with E. by her side. Gregg didn't
make contact as far as he knows. I don't know what happened to Shannon
and I didn't send him a picture of myself yet. I thought Kumar was in
Germany but he was actually in Penn. USA and he couldn't get himself in
the proper mood to receive me. We now have Linda in England that wants to
get in on this. Remember anybody that wants in, each Wed. 1100 PM
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10947 alt.alien.visitors:7558 sci.skeptic:27892
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 04:04:17 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.040417.22282@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Followup-To: alt.aliens.visitors
References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <ueRaoB6w164w@uuisis.isis.org> <62762@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 41
In article <62762@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear Astral Folks: The results of the first weekly Astral Convoy was as
> follows the person we called E started his astral journey in good order
> hitching up with me (I think) and I got a picture of a male person sort of
How does this astral travel work, i.e., "you think" you hooked up
with E? Are you in a fog?
> handsome, looking out to his left and my right. He is white. We then went
Just curious, how can this guy be perceived as handsome, when you
are not even sure who you hook up with?
> over to Hawaii and woke up a lady whoes first name starts with the letter
> K (I think). She woke up at 3:30 am with E. by her side. Gregg didn't
How do you know you were in hawaii?
> make contact as far as he knows. I don't know what happened to Shannon
Greg might have hooked-up but doesn't know?
> and I didn't send him a picture of myself yet. I thought Kumar was in
> Germany but he was actually in Penn. USA and he couldn't get himself in
So you quickly left germany and headed for penn?
> the proper mood to receive me. We now have Linda in England that wants to
> get in on this. Remember anybody that wants in, each Wed. 1100 PM
Maybe you were hooked-up with sannon and didn't know it?
Is LSD a prerequisite to astral travel? How much is taken?
I'm curious 'cause your report sounds disjointed and rather vague.
Thanks
P.S. No thanks on the astral offer. If you don't even know who
you are traveling with, you could run into some astral thugs,
unless of course thugs don't travel astral.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.004507.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Lines: 36
Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu
Organization: Indiana University
References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:45:07 -0500
In article <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:
> In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID
>>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST? The Pleiades are bright young stars still
>>within their nebular cocoon. They are along the order of millions of
>>years old. It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve
>>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams.
>>Are the Pleidians child prodigies? Btw the first prokaryotes didn't
>>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth.
>>Thomas Freebairn
>
> I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the
> Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally
> evolve in what is now their home system.
Yes?
>As for the Pleiades,
> how far away are they? You would want to add their distance to
> their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age,
> right?
No.
> Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused
> by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in
> binary or trinary star systems?
Yes and no.
> Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education
> is truly worthless? :-)>
Maybe.
Thomas Freebairn
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From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abduction case
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.074803.16363@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
Date: 25 Jul 92 07:48:03 GMT
References: <1992Jul19.022329.22455@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <Brr1pw.zA@apollo.hp.com>
Sender: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 48
In article <Brr1pw.zA@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul19.022329.22455@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes:
|> >I talked to a leading researcher two weeks ago, and he informed me about the
|> >abduction case that happened in New York. Someone posted that case earlier.
|> >
|> >The incident was witnessed by all those people who were on the Brooklyn Bridge,
|> >and by the people who were below (on the street ).
|> >
|> >The VERY high ranking official was not disclosed to me. I was told, however, that
|> >the official's Secret Service agents witnessed these happenings. It was these
|> >agents that contacted Bud Hopkins.
|> >
|> >The incident happened in 1989, and this official has not made up his mind yet
|> >as to whether he will disclose what he witnessed.
|> >
|> >My source personally knows just about every UFO researcher, and was one of the
|> >key people in organizing the conference at MIT a month ago.
|> >
|> >He an about 7 other researchers have been specifically doing MASSIVE research
|> >on the Roswel crash. They have uncovered many things that have never been
|> >uncovered before.
|>
|> Talk is cheap. But frankly we've been hearing this kind of stuff
|> for decades now and nobody has ever provided any tangible evidence.
|>
|> How would Mr. Wilbur like it if I claimed that I have secret information
|> that absolutely proves that he's making this all up due to some basic
|> mental instability and that I've talked to doctors and other specialists
|> who can confirm his condition, but at the moment choose not to do so?
|>
|> I say put up or shut up.
|>
|>
|> ---peter
|>
|>
I guess, now I know what its like to be on the other side...
Oouch. Ya have to bite your tongue on this side.
Well, at this point, I dont have any of the privy info. But, the gentleman that
I speak of is a very respected analyst. A person who people from both sides of
the controversy come to for opinion/help. Mike Corbin is one of those people,
for example.
Brick
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info On Mib
Message-ID: <139332.2A707319@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:43:02 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 13
> The bottom of this posting got cut off. Mike, can you post the
> remaining info?...Tom
I will send it to you via email so it won't take up any more bandwidth than
needed here.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Request: Roswell Information; And How To Get More
Message-ID: <139333.2A70731B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:58:05 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 65
> Let's recap:
>
> Moore and Berlita originally claimed ONE rash near Roswell, and
> the
> recovery of FOUR bodies.
>
> Randle and Schmittclaim ONE crash 150 miles west of Roswell, the
>
> recovery of THREE bodies and one LIVE alien.
>
> Friedman claims TWO crashes, the first in Roswell with four
> corpses,
> and the second at Randle
> s location with three corpses and one live one.
>
> Friedman maintains that the MJ-12 papers are genuine, in spite
> of a)
> near-certain proof that they're counterfeit, and b) it contradicts his
> two-crash theory. The papers mention only the Roswell crash.
>
> When asked about this contradiction, Friedman merely replied,
> "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Well, whuppee. That's
> certainly a solid answer.
Let's do the recap again ...
1) Moore and Berlitz write about the alleged crash of a flying disk near
Corona, New Mexico in 1947. This material is developed as a result of a
witness coming forward and approaching Stanton Friedman. The witness
is Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer stationed at Roswell Army Air Base
in 1947, when the crash occurred. During the Moore investigation, Mac Brazel
is also interviewed, as well as others.
2) Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt begin a more in-depth investigation of the
crash story and interview almost 300 witnesses who were either directly
involved or indirectly involved in the handling of the wreckage of the downed
craft. Additional, important information was found in this investigation,
including the exact amount of flights needed to remove the wreckage to
Carswell AFB and then subsequently to Wright-Patterson. Hence, the publishing
of the book, UFO Crash at Roswell.
3) Stanton T. Friedman was contacted by Gerald Anderson as a result of a
program aired on Unsolved Mysteries concerning the Roswell crash. Anderson
claims that he was present at a crash site in 1947, at the age of 5 years old
and observed the craft and bodies of aliens. However, he was not near Corona,
New Mexico when this happened. His testimony claims that he was with his
father, uncle and others in the Plains of San Agustin, which is about 250
miles west of the Corona crash site. The dates of this occurrance coincide
with the July crash observed at Corona. Friedman surmises that there was a
mid-air collision between two saucers, which brought one down at Corona and
one in the Plains. Friedman's just released book, Crash at Corona, details
the investigation of Anderson's claims.
At present, there is considerable controversy over the veracity of Anderson's
testimony. Randle and Schmitt claim that Anderson gave them a couple of
different versions on tape and that his story was too inconsistent. Friedman,
on the other hand, feels that Anderson is the real thing.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black
Message-ID: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:42:01 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 21
> Yes, Barker was definitely "pulling peoples' chain" with just about
> everything he wrote. If anyone did anything the least bit strange, he
> would suggest "was X visited by (gasp!) the Three Men???????".
>
> James Moseley, one of the *least-silent* individuals in UFOlogy today,
> was claimed by Barker in "They Knew Too Much about Flying Saucers" to
> have
> been silenced by the MIB during the 1950s. Moseley obviously views the
> whole thing as a big joke. If you ask him about it, he just smiles
> and says, "I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to discuss that!"
What is your reading on John Keel, who also is a big proponent of the MIB
stuff?
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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From: takeuch@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Travis L Takeuchi)
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.083631.4501@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
References: <1992Jul17.173640.17428@crc.ac.uk> <k0y9NB2w164w@cellar.org>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 08:36:31 GMT
Lines: 13
>
> Friedman maintains that the MJ-12 papers are genuine, in spite of a)
>near-certain proof that they're counterfeit, and b) it contradicts his
>two-crash theory. The papers mention only the Roswell crash.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org
Being a complete philistine, may I ask what is the near-certain proof that
the MJ-12 papers are counterfeit?
Thanx in advance,
Dominic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <62785@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 06:32:29 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61373@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11
Dear Ley People: I will now put down Part 2 of the information from
Shaari about ley lines.----So then this evening we'll devide it into
two chapters. The first chapter is the mysterious {figures} that have
occurred in the wheat fields across the planet and the second chapter is
the mysterious markings of the Nasca Lines and I know there are hundreds
and thousands more, but for purposes of this evening we'll start with
these two.
Recently I was involved in a discussion over the telephone with one of the
researchers of these particular circular configurations in the wheat
fields in Great Britain. {It was} a delightful discussion {because} he
asked me what I thought they were, and again my background in the
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <62789@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 06:50:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com>
<l5wlw3-.payner@netcom.com> <61259@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11
----Star Command, I am a commanber that deals with holographic healing.
I deal with holographic symbols and I have spent a great deal of time
in studying the akashic records, but as for as being involved with the
research side of the Star Command I personally have not spent that much
time in there.
Now in meeting this week with beings who were particularly involved
with the research side, certain things came to light. First and foremost
is that the research that is being done in Great Britain, you'll find over
500 diferent types of symbols {alright?}. Some are larger some
are smaller. Some of them are connected, almost like, {being} described
as barbell type of connection, you have a circle {on either} end and
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10951 alt.alien.visitors:7567 sci.skeptic:27901
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62794@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:24:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <ueRaoB6w164w@uuisis.isis.org>
<62762@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul25.040417.22282@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Lines: 4
Dear Press:
One of the problems of astral travel is that is of not very high
frequency and you can run into some very low vibrational entities.
John Winston
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <62792@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:08:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61258@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11
---a straight line connecting them. The best symbology is just visualize
it as a barbell. Others have been seen as a barbell with two little
straight lines that are parallel and close together. The others are in
more of a configuration that they look like a key, alright? There are
{assumptions} and insinuations maybe these extraterrestials from
another dimension are giving us keys or messages to other conciousnesses
and that they are producing these kinds of signals to communicate to us.
{In our chakras} the Star Command, it isn't so much that they are trying to
to communicate to humanity in this specific symbolic language but
that they are really monitoring the earth and they have been monitoring
the earth at those particular ley lines and ley lines are electromagnetic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <62793@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:17:26 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61258@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 9
----earth lines that cross over in a grid pattern around the earth's
surface. The Star Command has been monitoring these particular
configurations for thousands of years and it is now that they are starting
to infuse, meaning to {bring in} higher levels of healing energy. So
they are combining both a vibratory quality of energy, a holographic
quality of energy and specific light quality of energy. By light I mean
specific colors of light. They are infusing those at the intersection
points of these ley lines. End of Part 2.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:27902 alt.alien.visitors:7570
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <62795@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:32:32 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <c_#mlnc.payner@netcom.com>
<1992Jul13.072530.23475@u.washington.edu> <62009@cup.portal.com>
<1992Jul15.202050.11320@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com> <62208@cup.portal.com>
<l6bdd4INNi07@news.bbn.com> <1992Jul22.210958.18867@pony.Ingres.COM>
Lines: 3
Dear Bob, kbq, Kevin, Jason, and Bill:
I read your comments and it warms my heart.
John Winston.
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Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62796@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:47:52 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Lines: 11
Dear Fellow Earth Travellers: I will now put down the second part of the
information that was sent to me by the lady that founded the Antahkarana
Organization and she is also the person who put the information down that
is found in this particular collection. This from Ashtar---We wish to
inform those of Earth who work with us: NOW IS THE TIME TO UNITE into
the oneness of purpose that will be required of you to create the
vibration for us to land, and join hands, minds, and hearts in this joint
endeavor between dimensions. As in the movie ET, when the finger of the
alien ET touches the finger of Earth, so can the energies of higher
frequencies reach and work with those in the third dimension. We wish
---------------------------------------------------------------------
iversity of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! ***
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3
From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu>
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <#8gm_lc@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:12:32 GMT
Lines: 9
I do not claim to be a physicist or even a hobbiest of quantum mechanics, but
if the first object was indeed ice that moved due to the shuttle's engines
(or whatever) then why did the first object that clearly seems to be furtherter
away move first? Would not the initial force applied by the shuttle act on
the nearer object first (supposed fired shot)? Accordingly, the UFO would not
have moved until the shot (or ice) arrived. Any explanations?
Joseph A. Citro III
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3
From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Re: Why America ?
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.031658.10283@news.unomaha.edu>
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <1992Jul23.140405.2340@csc.ti.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:16:58 GMT
Lines: 52
alanj@dadd.ti.com writes:
> In article 114610@axion.bt.co.uk, achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin) writes:
> >
> >I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there
> >
> > Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ?
> >
> >Think about it logically,
> >
> > 1. Russia has vast tracks of barren, unpopulated lands. Compared to Russia the remote places in America really aren't that remote.
> >
> > 2. Russia's air traffic control and radar network is much less comphensive than the USA's, therefore the aliens could come and go more easily..
> >
> > 3. Russia, during the cold war was far behind the technology of the west and so would be willing to pay a higher price for alien technology ?
> >
> > 4. People could be silenced much more easily in the old Soviet Union than they could in the USA (except if your name was Silkwood !)
> >
> >Therefore if these supposed aliens had observed the earth they would have found the Old Soviet Union a much more inviting place to build K-2 ??
> >
> >But let me guess they do use the Soviet Union for bases, and someone somewhere (who also forgot his camera) has seen it !
> >
> >Don't get me wrong I don't have a closed mind to aliens (otherwise I wouldn't subscript to this newsgroup) but massive alien bases in the USA ?
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Tony
> >achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk
>
> Good point. In fact, why not Antartica, northern Canada, or the middle of an
> ocean? The only reasons I can think of would be:
>
> a. They are working with Americans which require access to the base.
> b. Their work is in that area (outside the base, assuming they must leave
> the base to accomplish some part of their work), and fuel requirements for
> transits to/from the more remote locations is prohibitive.
> c. Their work is in that area, and transits to/from more remote locations
> would increase the probability of detection.
>
> It really comes down to this - why do they have a base on Earth at all?
>
> Of course, the possible existence of an alien base in the U.S. does not preclude
> the possibility of bases existing in these other, more remote, places either.
>
> ---
> sincerely,
> Alan Jones / Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX / email=alanj@dadd.ti.com
>
Why not use the moon as a base? (of course maybe they are). The close
proximity to Earth and the seclusion would make it ideal!
Joseph A. Citro III
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.config:8991 alt.alien.visitors:7519
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From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors
Followup-To: alt.config
Date: 24 Jul 1992 03:30:03 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 56
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <l6uu9rINN8qf@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
References: <E8GHRW@taronga.com>
Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com
A number of netters have suggested that we should have a common
2nd-level name, and I agree. But so far none of them has come up with a
good one. Let's try "strange", so that we have the newsgroup
alt.alien.visitors split and renamed as follows:
alt.strange.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
alt.strange.aliens - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
alt.strange.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
alt.strange.mutilations - strange mutilations
alt.strange.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments
All these work except the last. We could try "anomaly":
alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
alt.anomaly.aliens - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations
alt.anomaly.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments
Well, better, but still too broad. What all these groups have in common is
their suspected link to aliens. We could try making the second name "alien"
and use a different name for the second group:
alt.alien.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
alt.alien.meetings - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
alt.alien.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
alt.alien.mutilations - strange mutilations
alt.alien.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments
Now there is a problem with the first, third and fourth groups -- the
presumed link to "aliens" is too strong while other explanations remain
open.
That leaves one other possibility, using two 2nd-level names:
alt.alien.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments
alt.alien.meetings - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations
alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
This last looks to me like the best solution so far. Perhaps others have some
better ideas. Two 2nd-level names convey the degree of certainty of the
alien connection to the events discussed.
Some of the postings now made to alt.paranormal might also belong to new
groups under alt.anomaly if they concern specific events that suggest
something alien, as distinct from something mystical or supernatural.
---
jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!cbnewsd!press2
From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:34:27 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.033427.19836@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Summary: ufo vs ice chunk - flash, it moved
References: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU>
Lines: 17
In article <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Jason Haines) writes:
> I have just viewed the footage taken from the Space Shuttle, as shown on
> Hard Copy (the Australian version), and I must say it is very interesting.
>
I finally got to view this segment on Larry King(and taped it).
It looked convincing if one could only ignore that Flash just
prior to the chunk changing direction. The flash had to cause the
direction change(or quite a coincidence of timing).
The other streak one views after the [ice] moves away seems unrelated
as it's tragectory is farther left of the [ice]and could be anything.
Anyway, the large flash on the left, and the coincidental zip of
the object away from the flash leaves me with ice in my mouth:-)
I since erased the tape to move onto other audio-visual pastimes.
barry--
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10925 alt.alien.visitors:7521 sci.skeptic:27840
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <62695@cup.portal.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 22:36:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com>
<cass8806.108@elan.glassboro.edu> <l6u3buINN9fc@news.bbn.com>
Lines: 3
Sorry everybody I don't have any time to read or post anything except
this posting today. Catch you people later if possible.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: WIR's [Was MIB]
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.023517.18831@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Date: 24 Jul 92 02:35:17 GMT
References: <1992Jul21.022007.4543@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <1992Jul22.133814.16273@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 15
In article <1992Jul22.133814.16273@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>, rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Evans) writes:
> EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu writes:
>
> >In article <1992Jul21.022007.4543@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
> >rosch@cpdw.enet.dec.com (Ray Rosch) writes:
> >I'd suggest you watch the movie: The Thin Blue Line, wherein we learn
> >that the famous LIR was actually a LIO (Lady in Orange).
>
> <<<* Hey I really dig the sense of humour that this group seems to be developing "No maam...we're musicians"
> UFO's are *serious* business but you gotta laugh...least I do.
>
Yes, I agree. I like to have fun sometimes-please no offense to the
really,really serious buffs out there:-)
barry--
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7523 sci.skeptic:27841
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!rutgers!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: astral travel
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.040144.20572@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:01:44 GMT
References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <62637@cup.portal.com>
Followup-To: alt.aliens.visitors
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 11
In article <62637@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear Len. If you would learn to use these gifts such as telepathy
> astral projection and a few others then no one would be able to lie
> to you. Everyone would be an open book for you to read.
> John Winston.
You could work in the president's cabinet to weed out liars, cheats,
frauds, and weazels. You could save this country!
You could work for Judges, Lawyers, why even the RTC!
Aw who am i kidding, John would be God.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7524 sci.skeptic:27844
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.071910.6659@cco.caltech.edu>
Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
References: <1992Jul19.003451.17413@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jul20.184358.10709@news.eng.convex.com> <FRANL.92Jul20162056@draco.centerline.com> <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au>,<62660@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 07:19:10 GMT
Lines: 22
In article <62660@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>It seems to me that a "mass detector" would be required. Such a detector
>"should" be able to sense matter. Whether one would have the compute power
>to resolve individual objects based on the massive (no pun! :-) sensory input
>is another matter!
>
>Are not the effects of mass (and therefore gravity) instantaneously permeated
>thoughout the (known) universe? Or hasn't this issue been resolved? I'm not
>a physicist, so consider this as lay speculation/conjecture; I visit SLAC and
>other such places, and I'm in awe of the experiments they conduct.
Current theory says that gravitational waves do NOT travel instantaneously.
If they DID travel instantaneously, there'd be no possibility of LIGO (Laser
Interferometry Gravitational Observatory?) working.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3
From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Stealth Manuscript
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.083433.12878@news.unomaha.edu>
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:34:33 GMT
Lines: 25
Someone posted an article in the last few weeks (in alt.alien.visitors)
about a supposed politician whom had claimed to have been abducted. No
names were given as to which politician this might be. However last night
(23 July) I found the following article in TIME magazines July 27, 1992
issue.
"Here Comes The Stealth Manuscript"
"Booksellers are grinding their teeth over several big Ross Perot books
that have been cancelled on the eve of publication. BUT SOMETHING BIGGER
MAY BE COMING SOON (my emphasis). Putnam is preparing to ship more than
100,000 copies of a supersecret book in late August. The publisher is
keeping both the subject and the author completely confidential. According
to buyers for the major chains, Putnam executives have been whispering that
it is a biography of a major Washington official that contains information
so explosive it could cause his or her resignation. This has prompted a
guessing game within the industry, but Putnam executives say only
'No Comment.'"
Anticipation will antagonize me until late August! I certainly hope that
this will not turn out to be hoax.
Joseph A. Citro III
jcitro3@odin.unomaha.edu
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7526 sci.skeptic:27848
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken
Message-ID: <62705@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 02:17:24 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu>
<62658@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul23.170148.919@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Lines: 45
In article <1992Jul23.170148.919@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
>In article <62658@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes
in part:
>|>[...]
>|> Some actual (and identifiable) dinosaur footprints were present in the rock
,
>|> along with what appeared to me (and these were the ones labelled as "unknow
n")
>|> to be the tracks of a military jeep. Two parallel tracks with about a 5 fo
ot
>|> separation (for some 15 feet, in the slab fragment) which resembled today's
>|> high-tech all-weather tire-treads. Tracks which were made millions of year
s
>|> ago. Incredible; I'll never forget that sight; and when I uttered that thou
ght
>|> out loud (I was only about 8 years old then), everyone turned around and
>|> looked at me strangely, yet no-one made any comments or smiled. [ See belo
w ]
>
>Incredible is the word. This would be a lot harder to understand if I
>hadn't read the classic science fiction story of that time from which
>this little joke was taken.
If it's a joke, then it's one on me [for I was there].
However, I'm not going to "defend" my remembrance since nearly 40 years have
elapsed (this was about 1952-1953; we lived in the area from 1951 to 1956).
And at that (original) time I was in the company of my Dad who desired to
tour the entire Museum in one day (he was like that; and the museum occupied
an entire city block [it was HUGE]).
Next time I'm in DC, I'll make a point to re-visit that Smithsonian exhibit
and attempt to collect more info; this cannot be until at least mid-1993.
One correspondent commented that perhaps the tracks were those of amphibians'
flippers. 'Spossible (and more plausible!) All I stated was that the tracks
bore a resemblance to tire tracks, NOT that they were tire tracks! :-)
As for science-fiction, could not the author have seen the same exhibit which
stimulated HIS story? Have you a reference [title, author, etc.]?
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7527 sci.skeptic:27849
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <62706@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 02:43:20 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com>
<1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <62660@cup.portal.com>
<a7gm+nj@lynx.unm.edu>
Lines: 26
In article <a7gm+nj@lynx.unm.edu>
cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
| [...]
| The idea behind special relativity is that information cannot be conveyed
| from place to place at a velocity exceeding the speed of light. Since
| gravity betrays the presence of matter its effects cannot propogate
| faster than the speed of light. Another way to look at it that gravity
| like other forces is conveyed by bosons. Bosons, depending on if they
| are massive or not travel at the below or at the speed of light
| respectively.
| [...]
Nicely explained; thanks! (Ever think of becoming a science writer? :-)
Now we have the problem of the Black Hole (I need to get a copy of Hawkings'
book(s)): given that a BH is so massive it prevents photon emission, can one
infer that gravity "outreaches" light? I thought photons were massless, so
what is the attractor? Must the answer await the formulation of a Unified
Field Theory?
Could a BH be detectable by OTHER than observed perturbations of other masses?
In other words: does a BH radiate "anything", or is it the ABSENCE of radiation
and other energies that defines an instance or the presence of a BH?
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7528 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1989
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!siesoft!imw
From: imw@siesoft.co.uk (Ian Wild)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Tachyons (was Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.151247.18524@siesoft.co.uk>
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:12:47 GMT
References: <1992Jul23.105148.13665@kth.se>
Sender: news@siesoft.co.uk (Usenet News)
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.
Lines: 19
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
tordm@vana (Tord Malmgren) writes:
: In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl>, spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes:
:
: [...]
: >However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c.
: >The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses.
: [...]
:
: as far as I understood Einstein's relativity it was only valid with speeds
: less than "c", and what happened with speeds larger than "c" it could not
: predict, so as far as I understand these Tachyons need not possess imaginary
: mass at all; maybe they could be real, but how they got into that state no
: theory tells us...
:
Wouldn't tachyons have to travel at >c relative to *everything*? Including
themselves?
imw
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10931 alt.alien.visitors:7529 sci.skeptic:27852
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <62709@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:18:19 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com>
<cass8806.108@elan.glassboro.edu> <l6u3buINN9fc@news.bbn.com>
<62695@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 9
Dear Fellow Earthlings: Here it is Friday morning 0607 and things look
pretty good. If it's God's will and if the creek doesn't rise
I hope to go down to Southern Calif. and go on a tour of the ruins
of a 30,000 year old city.
In case we ever accomplish something with all of this astral projection
project and other things be sure and don't think it's something that
I did or figured out myself. It's like the western song, I've got
friends in low places, except just the opposite.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Linesj
Message-ID: <62710@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:21:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com>
<62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu> <62611@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 3
Dear Everybody:
I'll be going on a tour of an acient city this Sunday.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7531 sci.skeptic:27853
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: astral travel
Message-ID: <62711@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:25:46 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <62637@cup.portal.com>
<1992Jul24.040144.20572@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Lines: 4
Dear Friend and the rest of you people:
I don't have time right now to talk. I hope to go on a tour of an
ancient city this Sunday, see ya later.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ***Good_Luck_for_Your_Astral_Convey***
Message-ID: <62712@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:28:09 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jul23.144307.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>
Lines: 3
Dear John H.
Haven't any time but will comment on this later.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7533 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1990
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!umeecs!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: Supraluminal v (was Re: Elapsed Time near c )
Message-ID: <9thm!zg@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 13:52:32 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> <v1gm!++@lynx.unm.edu>
Lines: 18
In article <v1gm!++@lynx.unm.edu> cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes:
>>I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating
>>the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like
>
>Hmm, what velocity do photons travel at? I think you mean to say
>that nothing with a rest mass can travel at c.
Opps, scratch that statement I apparently can't read, and also to save
everyone else the bother I'll go ahead and flame myself:
You stupid, blithering, idiot; CAN'T YOU EVEN READ YOUR NATIVE TONGUE!
Ithlial
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!umeecs!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <4whmq#-@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:03:33 GMT
References: <BrtoGA.Eov@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu> <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 41
In article <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>In article <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
>> Another thing to think about is if the star had been a supernovae
>> candidate it would have been a red giant. Which means that (a) it
>> would have been around apparent mag -6 or so and (b) it would have
>> engulfed or nearly engulfed any planets with orbtial radii similar
>> to the earth's (ie the range of orbital radii within which it is
>> thought necessary for a planet to have to be habital.)
>>
>> Ithlial
>
>Just to be the >:-)> advocate: would not the "comfort zone" for planetary
>radii be moved outward for a star massive enough to become a red giant?
>Not that the fact that the star turned into a red giant would not destroy
>the environment of any habitable planet no matter what its orbital radii
>was (or that such a star would not stick around long enough to evovle
>higher life.)
You're entirely correct in saying that the comfort zone (CZ) will move
out. Unfortunately you guess that the red giant phase is too short
is also true. Usually the phase lasts a few 100 million years, in addition
the luminosity is fluctating which will cause the CZ to move (although
not as much as the intially change to red giant caused it too move.
Note that lower forms of life like algaes and the like took a billion
years to evolve.
>
>Thomas Freebairn * I wish I had an employer
> * whose opinions mine were not.
Ithlial
My opinions, mine, mine, mine!
I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go,
"What, was THAT?!"
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.151859.118@crc.ac.uk>
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:18:59 GMT
References: <20JUN199221455246@zeus.tamu.edu> <61899@cup.portal.com> <62320@cup.portal.com>
Sender: news@crc.ac.uk
Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 25
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium
In article <62320@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear Steve:
> It's good to hear that Stanton Friedman's book Crash at Corona is out.
> I once mentioned to Stan that I didn't believe exactly like he did and
> he would probubly call me and my friends a bunch of kooks. He mentioned
> that he had work with some pretty weird people before. Anyway he
> sticks with what he is doing and came out with the book.
> John Winston.
No you have it wrong John, Stan would not call you a kook, he prefers
to call people who are not true believers as 'noisy negativists'. :) :)
I think that having a second team in the form of Kevin Randle and Don Schmit
actively investigating the Roswell case is a good thing. They challenge
a number of statements Stan makes and he returns the compliment. At times
it looks as if World War Three is going on between them, but I guess it
makes them all check what they say.
Steve.
--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7536 sci.skeptic:27857
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From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <ryhm-zd@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:08:46 GMT
References: <62660@cup.portal.com> <a7gm+nj@lynx.unm.edu> <62706@cup.portal.com>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 79
In article <62706@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>In article <a7gm+nj@lynx.unm.edu>
>cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
>
>| [...]
>| The idea behind special relativity is that information cannot be conveyed
>| from place to place at a velocity exceeding the speed of light. Since
>| gravity betrays the presence of matter its effects cannot propogate
>| faster than the speed of light. Another way to look at it that gravity
>| like other forces is conveyed by bosons. Bosons, depending on if they
>| are massive or not travel at the below or at the speed of light
>| respectively.
>| [...]
>
>Nicely explained; thanks! (Ever think of becoming a science writer? :-)
>
>Now we have the problem of the Black Hole (I need to get a copy of Hawkings'
>book(s)): given that a BH is so massive it prevents photon emission, can one
>infer that gravity "outreaches" light? I thought photons were massless, so
>what is the attractor? Must the answer await the formulation of a Unified
>Field Theory?
>
The reason that information about mass (and charge and angular momnetum) is
conveyed to the universe out side the evet horizon is that the gravitons
that mediate the gravitational field and the photons that mediate the
electromagnetic field are what we call 'vitrual' particles. The aren't
real in anyway that we know it, their existence is implied only by the
force they mediate. Also we do know the state of the star before it
becomes a black hole. So with a couple of conservation laws and some
arithmetic we know what goes into the singularity, so we're not learning
anything that we didn't know about before. The reason real photons
can't get out can be thought of a couple of ways. One can assign the photon
a mass based on the classical formula p = mv, where v=c for a photon.
The momentum of a photon comes from the formual for total energy of
a particle with no mass, E = pc. Beleive it or not this works, even
though we're mixing relativistic and classical formulae. (In a side
light the formula for calculating the event horizon can be done classically
and it works out correctly too) So you use the mass that to calculate
the force, and newton's F = dp/dt and you see that you need any infinte
amount of momentum (ie energy) to escape from the event horizon and
probably an imaginary amount to get out from within the EH.
>Could a BH be detectable by OTHER than observed perturbations of other masses?
>In other words: does a BH radiate "anything", or is it the ABSENCE of
>radiation
>and other energies that defines an instance or the presence of a BH?
>
The way that astronomers detect what are probably black holes is
fairly straight forward. We observe a binary system in which on of the
companions is emitting high energy radiation, like x-rays and gamma rays.
In the type of binary system these obervations are made one companion is
large, some type of giant star, red giants work best, while the other
is compact and pulls material off the larger star. Red giants work
best since they are largest and their outermost material is only loosely
bound. Since it is emitting this high energy radiation, we know that the
material must be very hot (ie posses alot of kinetic energy). The easiest
way to get kinetic energy is to fall down, stairs, cliffs or the potential
well of a massive object. So since the marterial is so energetic it must
have fallen a long way, threfore the object that the stuff is falling onto
is pretty small, ie smaller than a small star, even a white dwarf.
Another way to put upper limits on size is by measuring the time scale
over which the luminousity varies. The time scale time the speed of
light is an absolute upperbound on the size of the region that's
doing the varying. Anyhow if its smaller than a white dwarf it's a
neutron star or a blackhole, which depends on the mass. Now since the
stars are rotating about eachother at a rate we can measure we can
with the help of the law of gravitation determine their masses. If
the mass is too high for the neutron degeneracy to keep it from collapsing
then it's a blackhole, otherwise it's a neutron star.
Ithlial
My opinions, mine, mine, mine!
To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!rutgers!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Message-ID: <qzhmj++@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:45:03 GMT
References: <#8gm_lc@lynx.unm.edu> <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 22
In article <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes:
>I do not claim to be a physicist or even a hobbiest of quantum mechanics, but
>if the first object was indeed ice that moved due to the shuttle's engines
>(or whatever) then why did the first object that clearly seems to be
>furtherter
>away move first? Would not the initial force applied by the shuttle act on
>the nearer object first (supposed fired shot)? Accordingly, the UFO would not
>have moved until the shot (or ice) arrived. Any explanations?
>
> Joseph A. Citro III
>
How can you say that any of the objects is clearly further away than any
of the others? There aren't a lot of visual clues in the video that allow
you to determine the distances of the ice flecks.
Ithlial
My opinions, mine, mine, mine!
To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang
From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi
Subject: <None>
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.201506.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>
Lines: 1
Sender: usenet@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News)
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Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:15:06 EET
Lines: 1
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account)
Subject: Re: ***Good_Luck_for_Your_Astral_Convey***
Message-ID: <aero.711995750@neptune>
Sender: usenet@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu (Nets)
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
References: <1992Jul23.144307.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> <62712@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:35:50 GMT
Lines: 16
John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear John H.
>Haven't any time but will comment on this later.
>John Winston.
Would someone please teach Mr. Winston about the subtleties and
nuances which distinguish "followup" from "reply?"
--------
Jonathan A. Bishop
aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu
"Yippee! That may have been a small one for Neil,
but it was a big one for me."
--Pete Conrad
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account)
Subject: Re: Ley Linesj
Message-ID: <aero.711995673@neptune>
Sender: usenet@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu (Nets)
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com> <62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu> <62611@cup.portal.com> <62710@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:34:33 GMT
Lines: 17
John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Everybody:
>I'll be going on a tour of an acient city this Sunday.
>John Winston.
And I'll be going camping this weekend.
(Just thought Everybody might like to know that).
--------
Jonathan A. Bishop
aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu
"Yippee! That may have been a small one for Neil,
but it was a big one for me."
--Pete Conrad
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.202447.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>
Lines: 29
Sender: usenet@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: sara.cc.utu.fi
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
References: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU> <1992Jul24.033427.19836@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:24:47 EET
Lines: 29
>>In article <1992Jul24.033427.19836@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>, press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Jason Haines) writes:
>> I have just viewed the footage taken from the Space Shuttle, as shown on
>> Hard Copy (the Australian version), and I must say it is very interesting.
>>
>> I finally got to view this segment on Larry King(and taped it).
>>
>> It looked convincing if one could only ignore that Flash just
>> prior to the chunk changing direction. The flash had to cause the
>> direction change(or quite a coincidence of timing).
>> The other streak one views after the [ice] moves away seems unrelated
>> as it's tragectory is farther left of the [ice]and could be anything.
>>
>> Anyway, the large flash on the left, and the coincidental zip of
>> the object away from the flash leaves me with ice in my mouth:-)
>> I since erased the tape to move onto other audio-visual pastimes.
>>
>>
Hi, Alexi,
Thanks for your tape. That realy works.
Good luck for your experiment. Have a enjoyable tour.
By the way, take care of those bad potatos you deal with some days.
I am busy now to write too many papers to my prof. So let me see,
what will happen:)
J.Hillman
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.124506.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Lines: 17
Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
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Organization: Indiana University
References: <BrtoGA.Eov@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu> <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <4whmq#-@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:45:06 -0500
In article <4whmq#-@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
> In article <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>>In article <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
>
> You're entirely correct in saying that the comfort zone (CZ) will move
> out. Unfortunately you guess that the red giant phase is too short
> is also true. Usually the phase lasts a few 100 million years, in addition
> the luminosity is fluctating which will cause the CZ to move (although
> not as much as the intially change to red giant caused it to move.
> Ithlial
Interesting point (that I had never thought about.) I was talking about
main sequence lifetime for a star with enough mass to become red _super_
giant. Are not these the ones that reach such proportions?
Thomas Freebairn
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7543 sci.skeptic:27861
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From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.175845.18683@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> <62705@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:58:45 GMT
Lines: 25
In article <62705@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part:
|> If it's a joke, then it's one on me [for I was there].
That's what I meant.
I tend to suspect you could have seen a plaster cast of footprints
with jeep tracks added. Easy enough to do. Pretty funny, too.
|> As for science-fiction, could not the author have seen the same exhibit which
|> stimulated HIS story? Have you a reference [title, author, etc.]?
Yes, the causation could very well be the other way.
If I had the reference I would have posted it. :-) I'm still searching.
I think this was in a collection of short stories by Arthur C. Clarke.
Anyone want to help out here?
|> One correspondent commented that perhaps the tracks were those of amphibians'
|> flippers. 'Spossible (and more plausible!) All I stated was that the tracks
|> bore a resemblance to tire tracks, NOT that they were tire tracks! :-)
Ahem. Actually, you were pretty darn certain that they were tire tracks
in your previous posting.
--
Robert E. McGrath
Urbana Illinois
mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!udel!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info On Mib
Message-ID: <TVoBoB5w164w@cellar.org>
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:55:52 GMT
References: <62462@cup.portal.com>
Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 19
John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear People: If a person believes the Condon Report I truely feel
> sorry for that person. We spent about 55,000 dollars on that report
> to get information on the space people when we have recovered live
> space people (the good type) from crashes. We subjest them to
> questioning then when they don't answer us to give us their advanced
> technology we put them in liquid nitrogen for extended periods of
> time. Every so often we unthaw them and ask them some more questions.
> If they don't give us the information we want then we refreeze them
> again. It reminds me of the old song God's Going To Get You For That.
Gee, and they say FUR kills.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill
Gates to run."
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10937 alt.alien.visitors:7545 sci.skeptic:27865
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From: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.165240.16892@acuson.com>
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:52:40 GMT
References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> <cass8806.108@elan.glassboro.edu> <1992Jul23.182915.22178@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> <1992Jul23.191218.4759@walter.bellcore.com>
Reply-To: lawson@aldia.UUCP (Drew Lawson)
Organization: ACUSON, Mountain View, CA
Lines: 10
In article <1992Jul23.191218.4759@walter.bellcore.com> mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) writes:
>I had a dream that grey empaths dressed in black had taken over New
>Jersey.....
But would anybody notice?
--
Drew Lawson If you're not part of the solution,
lawson@acuson.com you're part of the precipitate
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From: tjh@agni.world.std.com (Tim Hall)
Subject: Re: Stealth Manuscript
In-Reply-To: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu's message of Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:34:33 GMT
Message-ID: <TJH.92Jul24135033@agni.world.std.com>
Sender: usenet@world.std.com (Mr USENET himself)
Nntp-Posting-Host: agni.std.com
Organization: Software Tool & Die
References: <1992Jul24.083433.12878@news.unomaha.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:50:33 GMT
Lines: 35
In article <1992Jul24.083433.12878@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes:
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: world!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3
From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:34:33 GMT
Lines: 25
.
.
.
MAY BE COMING SOON (my emphasis). Putnam is preparing to ship more than
100,000 copies of a supersecret book in late August. The publisher is
keeping both the subject and the author completely confidential. According
to buyers for the major chains, Putnam executives have been whispering that
it is a biography of a major Washington official that contains information
so explosive it could cause his or her resignation. This has prompted a
guessing game within the industry, but Putnam executives say only
'No Comment.'"
Joseph A. Citro III
jcitro3@odin.unomaha.edu
The Boston Globe reported that a scathing book on Ted Kennedy is supposed
to come out soon. It is written by a former (disgruntled?) aide and is
supposed to contain lots of dirt. Sounds like what you mention above.
--
-Tim
I'm not trying to kill myself. I just don't want to feel.
(unknown)
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7547 sci.skeptic:27875
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Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!ldoering
From: ldoering@engin.umich.edu (Laurence Doering)
Subject: Time's Arrow (fossil tire tracks)
Message-ID: <3dS-gcA@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 15:37:18 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> <62705@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul24.175845.18683@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host: joe.engin.umich.edu
Lines: 23
In article <1992Jul24.175845.18683@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>In article <62705@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part:
>|> If it's a joke, then it's one on me [for I was there].
>That's what I meant.
>
>I tend to suspect you could have seen a plaster cast of footprints
>with jeep tracks added. Easy enough to do. Pretty funny, too.
>
>|> As for science-fiction, could not the author have seen the same exhibit which
>|> stimulated HIS story? Have you a reference [title, author, etc.]?
>Yes, the causation could very well be the other way.
>
>If I had the reference I would have posted it. :-) I'm still searching.
>I think this was in a collection of short stories by Arthur C. Clarke.
>Anyone want to help out here?
I don't remember the name of the short story collection, but the story is
called "Time's Arrow", and is by Arthur C. Clarke. (Paleontologists travel
back in time with jeep & equipment, never return; colleagues later discover
fossil jeep tire tracks overlaid with carnivorous dinosaur footprints,
with increasing spacing, as if the dinosaur was CHASING SOMETHING...)
ljd
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.201947.19093@news.unomaha.edu>
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <qzhmj++@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:19:47 GMT
Lines: 37
cary@carina.unm.edu writes:
> In article <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes:
> >I do not claim to be a physicist or even a hobbiest of quantum mechanics, but
> >if the first object was indeed ice that moved due to the shuttle's engines
> >(or whatever) then why did the first object that clearly seems to be
> >furtherter
> >away move first? Would not the initial force applied by the shuttle act on
> >the nearer object first (supposed fired shot)? Accordingly, the UFO would not
> >have moved until the shot (or ice) arrived. Any explanations?
> >
> > Joseph A. Citro III
> >
> How can you say that any of the objects is clearly further away than any
> of the others? There aren't a lot of visual clues in the video that allow
> you to determine the distances of the ice flecks.
>
> Ithlial
>
>
> My opinions, mine, mine, mine!
>
> To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
> and the dancers hit eachother.
There is a problem determining depth and distance with the type of camera
used to tape the possible UFO event by the shuttle. However, it is not
impossible to do so. The camera used operates very similar to night
vision devices used in the military. I have had extensive use of this
type of equipment. Particularly, what are called PV-S5 night vision goggles,
and the PV-S2 starlight scope. If it were impossible to determine depth
and distance with these devices it would not be possible to use them for
hitting enemy targets. Yes, it is my opinion that the object that moved
first was further away. But, my opinon is based on experience with
similar equipment.
Joseph A. Citro III
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10938 alt.alien.visitors:7550 sci.skeptic:27877
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From: caina@merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.144455.2016@merrimack.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:44:55 GMT
References: <62554@cup.portal.com><1992Jul22.153119.375@talon.ucs.orst.edu><1992Jul22.174720.16281@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <h7fmkyr@lynx.unm.edu> <62609@cup.portal.com>
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA
Lines: 26
In article <62609@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear Everybody: I don't have time to say much. A person by the name
> of Kumar in Germany has been sending me E-mail and my E-mail has not
> been getting back to him so I sent him a telepathic message. He wrote
> me yesterday that he was aware of me sending him a telepathic message
> and that I had woken him up and had also appeared in his dreams. This
> has happened to me and other people before. On sunday and monday nights
> I did a little warm up astral projection. Remember tonight at 1100 PM
> it the time we'll do the experiment.
> John Winston.
Now this is good...From now on when I call someone and the line is busy...
I'll send them a telepathic message. Why do I get the feeling you believe
you've talked to Elvis in your local K-mart?
Now kids...Pay attention, By smoking some weird foreign substance, you too
can post weird messages.
Alex
*****************************************************************************
Stand your ground, Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have
a war...let it begin here!
Captain Parker
April 19, 1775
Battle of Lexington
*****************************************************************************
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7551 sci.skeptic:27887
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!apple!news.oc.com!convex!swarren
From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.220747.18157@news.eng.convex.com>
Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account)
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Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <62660@cup.portal.com> <a7gm+nj@lynx.unm.edu> <62706@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:07:47 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 51
In article <62706@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>Now we have the problem of the Black Hole (I need to get a copy of Hawkings'
>book(s)): given that a BH is so massive it prevents photon emission, can one
>infer that gravity "outreaches" light? I thought photons were massless, so
>what is the attractor? Must the answer await the formulation of a Unified
>Field Theory?
Well, this is a lot more complex than special relativity; the effects of
black holes are described by the general theory of relativity. Basically
general relativity says that a gravitational field is equivalent to a
reference frame that is accelerating at a rate equal to the gravitational
acceleration of the field. Obviously this changes depending on where you
are in the field, but you get the idea.
Light cannot escape from a black hole because it is infinitely red-shifted
as it journeys through the gravitational field, to the point that it no
longer contains any energy.
>Could a BH be detectable by OTHER than observed perturbations of other masses?
>In other words: does a BH radiate "anything",or is it the ABSENCE of radiation
>and other energies that defines an instance or the presence of a BH?
There will probably be some innaccuracies here, so be patient, but here
is the mechanism as I understand it:
Apparently the background quantum fluctuations that constantly percolate
throughout the universe provide a mechanism for radiation to be emitted
from a black hole. Quantum theory provides for a finite non-zero proba-
bility that at any point in space and time a particle and its anti-
particle may spontanously come into existance out of "nothing". Under
normal circumstances these "virtual particles" instantly annihilate one
another. The energy from the annihilation never really existed; the
virtual particles came into existance owing the universe for their mass,
so when they annihilate each other they simply disappear without emitting
any photons or other particles.
At the edge of a black hole, on the boundary between escape and consumption,
these virtual particles form and are ripped apart by tidal forces before
they can recombine. The black hole consumes one of them, and the other
escapes. The mass for the particle that escapes comes out of the mass of
the black hole. This is a form of quantum tunneling similar to what happens
electrically in a tunnel diode. Only this time it is a gravity well that
the particle "tunnels" out of, rather than an electrical potential well.
The result is that black holes gradually evaporate over time. The rate
is very slow, however.
--
_.
--Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
Warren v\ *| -----------------------------------------------
V
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7552 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1991
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch
From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <7696@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:31:57 GMT
References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <aero.711820272@titan>
Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Cyberdyne Systems
Lines: 28
In article <aero.711820272@titan> aero@titan.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account) writes:
>it seems you think you accept relativity. But the second part shows that you
>have a faulty understanding of it. NOTE: RELATIVITY PROHIBITS TRAVEL AT
>C OR ABOVE!!!! PERIOD. Furthermore, relativity prohibits the transmission
>of any information by any means at speeds faster than light.
Idle speculation from someone whose ignorance
of physics is massive (pun intended):
Does the influence of gravity act instantaneously? Suppose you had
a mass detector of some sort, and you were detecting mass X at
a distance of say, 1 LY. If that mass were moved suddenly, wouldn't
your mass detector note the movement instantly? What glaring blunder
have I committed?
Bonus Round related question:
Do two masses always interact gravitationally, regardless of the
distance between them? I mean "at all", not "negligible".
I know, there are more appropriate forums for this stuff, but hey,
I'm not going to parade my ignorance in front of the _smart_guys_.
--
DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch
From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli
Message-ID: <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:47:22 GMT
References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU
Organization: Cyberdyne Systems
Lines: 30
In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID
>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST? The Pleiades are bright young stars still
>within their nebular cocoon. They are along the order of millions of
>years old. It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve
>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams.
>Are the Pleidians child prodigies? Btw the first prokaryotes didn't
>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth.
>Thomas Freebairn
I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the
Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally
evolve in what is now their home system. As for the Pleiades,
how far away are they? You would want to add their distance to
their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age,
right?
Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused
by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in
binary or trinary star systems?
Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education
is truly worthless? :-)
--
DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7554 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1992
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!west.West.Sun.COM!smaug.West.Sun.COM!richard
From: Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM (Richard M. Mathews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Tachyons (was Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Date: 25 Jul 1992 00:19:37 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <14q6mpINNg3b@smaug.West.Sun.COM>
References: <1992Jul23.105148.13665@kth.se> <1992Jul24.151247.18524@siesoft.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: astro
Originator: richard@astro.West.Sun.COM
imw@siesoft.co.uk (Ian Wild) writes:
>Wouldn't tachyons have to travel at >c relative to *everything*? Including
>themselves?
Tachyons are truly bizarre. Two of them going at >c straight at each
other would actually be going at <c relative to each other! For example,
plug +2c and -2c into the relative velocity formula
v_rel = (v1 - v2) / (1 - v1*v2/c^2)
= (+2c - -2c) / (1 - (2c)(-2c)/c^2)
= 4c / (1 + 4)
= - 4/5 c
!!!
Richard M. Mathews G eorge
D epression
Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM B ush casts a
G loom on us all
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: Ley Linesj
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 01:50:25 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.015025.19803@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
References: <6200@bar.puke.astral.com>
Lines: 5
Hi Everyone,
I'm gonna get totally jaked and blow lunch this sunday.
later,
barry--
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From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62755@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 19:09:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <ueRaoB6w164w@uuisis.isis.org>
Lines: 3
Dear Doug: It sounds like you have a clear alert mind and your not
afraid to stand out from the other people and say what you think.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10946 alt.alien.visitors:7557 sci.skeptic:27890
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62762@cup.portal.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 20:12:27 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <ueRaoB6w164w@uuisis.isis.org>
<62755@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11
Dear Astral Folks: The results of the first weekly Astral Convoy was as
follows the person we called E started his astral journey in good order
hitching up with me (I think) and I got a picture of a male person sort of
handsome, looking out to his left and my right. He is white. We then went
over to Hawaii and woke up a lady whoes first name starts with the letter
K (I think). She woke up at 3:30 am with E. by her side. Gregg didn't
make contact as far as he knows. I don't know what happened to Shannon
and I didn't send him a picture of myself yet. I thought Kumar was in
Germany but he was actually in Penn. USA and he couldn't get himself in
the proper mood to receive me. We now have Linda in England that wants to
get in on this. Remember anybody that wants in, each Wed. 1100 PM
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 04:04:17 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.040417.22282@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Followup-To: alt.aliens.visitors
References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <ueRaoB6w164w@uuisis.isis.org> <62762@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 41
In article <62762@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear Astral Folks: The results of the first weekly Astral Convoy was as
> follows the person we called E started his astral journey in good order
> hitching up with me (I think) and I got a picture of a male person sort of
How does this astral travel work, i.e., "you think" you hooked up
with E? Are you in a fog?
> handsome, looking out to his left and my right. He is white. We then went
Just curious, how can this guy be perceived as handsome, when you
are not even sure who you hook up with?
> over to Hawaii and woke up a lady whoes first name starts with the letter
> K (I think). She woke up at 3:30 am with E. by her side. Gregg didn't
How do you know you were in hawaii?
> make contact as far as he knows. I don't know what happened to Shannon
Greg might have hooked-up but doesn't know?
> and I didn't send him a picture of myself yet. I thought Kumar was in
> Germany but he was actually in Penn. USA and he couldn't get himself in
So you quickly left germany and headed for penn?
> the proper mood to receive me. We now have Linda in England that wants to
> get in on this. Remember anybody that wants in, each Wed. 1100 PM
Maybe you were hooked-up with sannon and didn't know it?
Is LSD a prerequisite to astral travel? How much is taken?
I'm curious 'cause your report sounds disjointed and rather vague.
Thanks
P.S. No thanks on the astral offer. If you don't even know who
you are traveling with, you could run into some astral thugs,
unless of course thugs don't travel astral.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.004507.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>
Lines: 36
Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu
Organization: Indiana University
References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:45:07 -0500
In article <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:
> In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID
>>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST? The Pleiades are bright young stars still
>>within their nebular cocoon. They are along the order of millions of
>>years old. It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve
>>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams.
>>Are the Pleidians child prodigies? Btw the first prokaryotes didn't
>>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth.
>>Thomas Freebairn
>
> I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the
> Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally
> evolve in what is now their home system.
Yes?
>As for the Pleiades,
> how far away are they? You would want to add their distance to
> their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age,
> right?
No.
> Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused
> by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in
> binary or trinary star systems?
Yes and no.
> Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education
> is truly worthless? :-)>
Maybe.
Thomas Freebairn
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From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abduction case
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.074803.16363@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
Date: 25 Jul 92 07:48:03 GMT
References: <1992Jul19.022329.22455@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <Brr1pw.zA@apollo.hp.com>
Sender: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 48
In article <Brr1pw.zA@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul19.022329.22455@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes:
|> >I talked to a leading researcher two weeks ago, and he informed me about the
|> >abduction case that happened in New York. Someone posted that case earlier.
|> >
|> >The incident was witnessed by all those people who were on the Brooklyn Bridge,
|> >and by the people who were below (on the street ).
|> >
|> >The VERY high ranking official was not disclosed to me. I was told, however, that
|> >the official's Secret Service agents witnessed these happenings. It was these
|> >agents that contacted Bud Hopkins.
|> >
|> >The incident happened in 1989, and this official has not made up his mind yet
|> >as to whether he will disclose what he witnessed.
|> >
|> >My source personally knows just about every UFO researcher, and was one of the
|> >key people in organizing the conference at MIT a month ago.
|> >
|> >He an about 7 other researchers have been specifically doing MASSIVE research
|> >on the Roswel crash. They have uncovered many things that have never been
|> >uncovered before.
|>
|> Talk is cheap. But frankly we've been hearing this kind of stuff
|> for decades now and nobody has ever provided any tangible evidence.
|>
|> How would Mr. Wilbur like it if I claimed that I have secret information
|> that absolutely proves that he's making this all up due to some basic
|> mental instability and that I've talked to doctors and other specialists
|> who can confirm his condition, but at the moment choose not to do so?
|>
|> I say put up or shut up.
|>
|>
|> ---peter
|>
|>
I guess, now I know what its like to be on the other side...
Oouch. Ya have to bite your tongue on this side.
Well, at this point, I dont have any of the privy info. But, the gentleman that
I speak of is a very respected analyst. A person who people from both sides of
the controversy come to for opinion/help. Mike Corbin is one of those people,
for example.
Brick
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info On Mib
Message-ID: <139332.2A707319@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:43:02 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 13
> The bottom of this posting got cut off. Mike, can you post the
> remaining info?...Tom
I will send it to you via email so it won't take up any more bandwidth than
needed here.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Request: Roswell Information; And How To Get More
Message-ID: <139333.2A70731B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:58:05 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 65
> Let's recap:
>
> Moore and Berlita originally claimed ONE rash near Roswell, and
> the
> recovery of FOUR bodies.
>
> Randle and Schmittclaim ONE crash 150 miles west of Roswell, the
>
> recovery of THREE bodies and one LIVE alien.
>
> Friedman claims TWO crashes, the first in Roswell with four
> corpses,
> and the second at Randle
> s location with three corpses and one live one.
>
> Friedman maintains that the MJ-12 papers are genuine, in spite
> of a)
> near-certain proof that they're counterfeit, and b) it contradicts his
> two-crash theory. The papers mention only the Roswell crash.
>
> When asked about this contradiction, Friedman merely replied,
> "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Well, whuppee. That's
> certainly a solid answer.
Let's do the recap again ...
1) Moore and Berlitz write about the alleged crash of a flying disk near
Corona, New Mexico in 1947. This material is developed as a result of a
witness coming forward and approaching Stanton Friedman. The witness
is Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer stationed at Roswell Army Air Base
in 1947, when the crash occurred. During the Moore investigation, Mac Brazel
is also interviewed, as well as others.
2) Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt begin a more in-depth investigation of the
crash story and interview almost 300 witnesses who were either directly
involved or indirectly involved in the handling of the wreckage of the downed
craft. Additional, important information was found in this investigation,
including the exact amount of flights needed to remove the wreckage to
Carswell AFB and then subsequently to Wright-Patterson. Hence, the publishing
of the book, UFO Crash at Roswell.
3) Stanton T. Friedman was contacted by Gerald Anderson as a result of a
program aired on Unsolved Mysteries concerning the Roswell crash. Anderson
claims that he was present at a crash site in 1947, at the age of 5 years old
and observed the craft and bodies of aliens. However, he was not near Corona,
New Mexico when this happened. His testimony claims that he was with his
father, uncle and others in the Plains of San Agustin, which is about 250
miles west of the Corona crash site. The dates of this occurrance coincide
with the July crash observed at Corona. Friedman surmises that there was a
mid-air collision between two saucers, which brought one down at Corona and
one in the Plains. Friedman's just released book, Crash at Corona, details
the investigation of Anderson's claims.
At present, there is considerable controversy over the veracity of Anderson's
testimony. Randle and Schmitt claim that Anderson gave them a couple of
different versions on tape and that his story was too inconsistent. Friedman,
on the other hand, feels that Anderson is the real thing.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black
Message-ID: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:42:01 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 21
> Yes, Barker was definitely "pulling peoples' chain" with just about
> everything he wrote. If anyone did anything the least bit strange, he
> would suggest "was X visited by (gasp!) the Three Men???????".
>
> James Moseley, one of the *least-silent* individuals in UFOlogy today,
> was claimed by Barker in "They Knew Too Much about Flying Saucers" to
> have
> been silenced by the MIB during the 1950s. Moseley obviously views the
> whole thing as a big joke. If you ask him about it, he just smiles
> and says, "I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to discuss that!"
What is your reading on John Keel, who also is a big proponent of the MIB
stuff?
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: takeuch@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Travis L Takeuchi)
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <1992Jul25.083631.4501@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
References: <1992Jul17.173640.17428@crc.ac.uk> <k0y9NB2w164w@cellar.org>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 08:36:31 GMT
Lines: 13
>
> Friedman maintains that the MJ-12 papers are genuine, in spite of a)
>near-certain proof that they're counterfeit, and b) it contradicts his
>two-crash theory. The papers mention only the Roswell crash.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org
Being a complete philistine, may I ask what is the near-certain proof that
the MJ-12 papers are counterfeit?
Thanx in advance,
Dominic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <62785@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 06:32:29 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61373@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11
Dear Ley People: I will now put down Part 2 of the information from
Shaari about ley lines.----So then this evening we'll devide it into
two chapters. The first chapter is the mysterious {figures} that have
occurred in the wheat fields across the planet and the second chapter is
the mysterious markings of the Nasca Lines and I know there are hundreds
and thousands more, but for purposes of this evening we'll start with
these two.
Recently I was involved in a discussion over the telephone with one of the
researchers of these particular circular configurations in the wheat
fields in Great Britain. {It was} a delightful discussion {because} he
asked me what I thought they were, and again my background in the
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <62789@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 06:50:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com>
<l5wlw3-.payner@netcom.com> <61259@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11
----Star Command, I am a commanber that deals with holographic healing.
I deal with holographic symbols and I have spent a great deal of time
in studying the akashic records, but as for as being involved with the
research side of the Star Command I personally have not spent that much
time in there.
Now in meeting this week with beings who were particularly involved
with the research side, certain things came to light. First and foremost
is that the research that is being done in Great Britain, you'll find over
500 diferent types of symbols {alright?}. Some are larger some
are smaller. Some of them are connected, almost like, {being} described
as barbell type of connection, you have a circle {on either} end and
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10951 alt.alien.visitors:7567 sci.skeptic:27901
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62794@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:24:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <ueRaoB6w164w@uuisis.isis.org>
<62762@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul25.040417.22282@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Lines: 4
Dear Press:
One of the problems of astral travel is that is of not very high
frequency and you can run into some very low vibrational entities.
John Winston
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <62792@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:08:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61258@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 11
---a straight line connecting them. The best symbology is just visualize
it as a barbell. Others have been seen as a barbell with two little
straight lines that are parallel and close together. The others are in
more of a configuration that they look like a key, alright? There are
{assumptions} and insinuations maybe these extraterrestials from
another dimension are giving us keys or messages to other conciousnesses
and that they are producing these kinds of signals to communicate to us.
{In our chakras} the Star Command, it isn't so much that they are trying to
to communicate to humanity in this specific symbolic language but
that they are really monitoring the earth and they have been monitoring
the earth at those particular ley lines and ley lines are electromagnetic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <62793@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:17:26 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61258@cup.portal.com>
Lines: 9
----earth lines that cross over in a grid pattern around the earth's
surface. The Star Command has been monitoring these particular
configurations for thousands of years and it is now that they are starting
to infuse, meaning to {bring in} higher levels of healing energy. So
they are combining both a vibratory quality of energy, a holographic
quality of energy and specific light quality of energy. By light I mean
specific colors of light. They are infusing those at the intersection
points of these ley lines. End of Part 2.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:27902 alt.alien.visitors:7570
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <62795@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:32:32 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <c_#mlnc.payner@netcom.com>
<1992Jul13.072530.23475@u.washington.edu> <62009@cup.portal.com>
<1992Jul15.202050.11320@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com> <62208@cup.portal.com>
<l6bdd4INNi07@news.bbn.com> <1992Jul22.210958.18867@pony.Ingres.COM>
Lines: 3
Dear Bob, kbq, Kevin, Jason, and Bill:
I read your comments and it warms my heart.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10952 alt.alien.visitors:7571 sci.skeptic:27903
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <62796@cup.portal.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:47:52 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Lines: 11
Dear Fellow Earth Travellers: I will now put down the second part of the
information that was sent to me by the lady that founded the Antahkarana
Organization and she is also the person who put the information down that
is found in this particular collection. This from Ashtar---We wish to
inform those of Earth who work with us: NOW IS THE TIME TO UNITE into
the oneness of purpose that will be required of you to create the
vibration for us to land, and join hands, minds, and hearts in this joint
endeavor between dimensions. As in the movie ET, when the finger of the
alien ET touches the finger of Earth, so can the energies of higher
frequencies reach and work with those in the third dimension. We wish
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