CABINET AND Built-Ins chat

 Subject:  CCB0918

Author:  ElseNew

Uploaded By:  AW JimC

Date:  3/7/1996

File:  CCB0918.LOG (16448 bytes) 

Estimated Download Time (59416 baud):  < 1 minute

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This is a general potporri cabinet chat.  There is an interesting thread on joints.  Mentioned are bisquits, pocket hole, mortise and tenon, loose tenon, and dovetails. As usuall there are varied ideas on woodworking machines. 

OnlineHost:

OnlineHost: *** You are in "American Woodworker". ***

OnlineHost:

ElseNew: Hello Wood

WOODJS: hello

ElseNew: Hi Tanker, Foorce

Tanker Max: Hi.

ElseNew: What doing?

WOODJS: where is everyone is there a forum

ElseNew: Yes Wood.  There is a chat every night

WOODJS: what is subject

ElseNew: Monday is cabinets

WOODJS: ok just finishing a  big job like a cabinet,

ElseNew: What kind of job Wood?

WOODJS: large book case 15'x8' made out of maple

ElseNew: Hello everyone

Tanker Max: question.. has AW recently had plans for cabinets that a beginner

can do??

ElseNew: That is quite a project Wood I hope you built it in pieces

WOODJS: yes 5 pcs 2 wings 2 tops 1 bottom

ElseNew: I would be surprised if they haven't Tank you can ask AWJimC

ElseNew: Just Email him

ElseNew: What kind of shelf holders did you use Wood?

WOODJS: i used just shelf standards with clips you route a groove 3/4 in wide

ect

ElseNew: Tank you can also try The Woodworker's Journal I used to write for

them

ElseNew: Thats also reffered to as pilaster Wood. It works very well

MalcWarren: Hello all!

ElseNew: Hello everyone.  The subject tonight is cabinets

WOODJS: seems to ,plenty of adjustability

CnL A: hi to everyone.

MalcWarren: Anything specific about cabinets?

ElseNew: Anything Malc

MalcWarren: sounds good!

WOODJS: anyone have good word aout a specific water base product, looking for

a good supplier

ElseNew: Have you ever tried individual shelf clips wood?

WOODJS: yes type you drill 5mm hole ect these were easier

CnL A: what kind of product woods?

ElseNew: Hi Border

WOODJS: like wood finish , sanding sealer, stains .for cabinets

MalcWarren: WOODJS, Majestic Paint stores used to carry a pretty good water

based polyurethane... used

MalcWarren: it on some wood floors once.

Bordrcoly: Hello Else what is new?

WOODJS: ive been use some i got from amity seems ok wonder if any better

MalcWarren: WOODJS, the water based polyurethanes don't change colors as

much.

WOODJS: how about wtr based laquer

ElseNew: Tough to keep up with brushing all the sawdust out of fur Border

MalcWarren: haven't tried any of it - didn't know they made any?

WOODJS: hydro coat offers some ?? never tried yet

DanCam22: Hi!...Has anyone used the aftermarket table saw splitter from

Biesemeyer???

ElseNew: Which did you like better Wood the pilaster or 5mm shelf clips?

ElseNew: No sorry Dan

Bordrcoly: Naw I just brush it out all at once at the end of the day, but it

does get bad under my ]

Bordrcoly: collar

WOODJS: anyone know where to find a used blum hinge drill machine,, Else ,

the 5mm clips are cleaner

WOODJS: looking and less cost

MalcWarren: No to Dan and no to WOOD

WOODJS: but pilaster easier to install

ElseNew: I agree Wood. I also think they are easier to use

ElseNew: Did you have any problem cutting or registering the pilaster Wood?

BGUIL: Is there a topic?  Also, buying 8" jointer- anyone with feelings on

Delta vs Powermatic?

WOODJS: no i used straight edge out of alum chan, marked clamped, route

,,done

ElseNew: Cabinets BG

ElseNew: Ever put on on upside down Wood?

MT2020: looking for comments on jet 14in or delta 14in band saw which one to

buy

ElseNew: I like my Delta BG

WOODJS: no mine are marked with numbers,, not to bad ,,

ElseNew: Can't help ya MT

WOODJS: i like my delta no complaints

BGUIL: Else, does the fence skew?

ElseNew: Yes

Bordrcoly: all  my tools are delta gray, they are alos over 25 years old, and

still run very well.

DanCam22: MT Go with the Delta...

WOODJS: though ive used powermatic table saw good piece of equip.

ElseNew: Do you have a Unisaw Wood?

Bordrcoly: The Wood working labs at RIT have some Poweermatic tools and they

appear too be holding

Bordrcoly: up well.

BGUIL: Else, any problems with parallelogram bed on delta?

ElseNew: No BG

GkMATS: You should consider a bridgewood 8 "jointer

WOODJS: does anyone know if you can use a glue joint cutter when glueing up

boards for raised panel

WOODJS: doors

WOODJS: does it show on raised panel part

Bordrcoly: I cant see why there would be a problem

GkMATS: yes

ElseNew: I just use a butt joint Wood.  It has never failed and I have made

many panels

MT2020: looking at delta and jet bands saws is 1hp recommended the delta is

1/2 hp

ElseNew: It will show Wood but it shouldn't be objectionable

WOODJS: i  know was tryingf to keep align good for less sanding , also im

useing for production run

ElseNew: Why not use a butt joint Wood?

WOODJS: joint slides in clamps with glue joint glue clamp no problem

ElseNew: Do you have a bisquit joiner Wood?

Ak Sand: HI ALL!!!

ElseNew: Hi Ak

MalcWarren: Hey, AK

WOODJS: yes to slow for production run of 30 doors

ElseNew: How wide are your panels Woo?

WOODJS: any where from 10" to 24"

WOODJS: not to often to 24

ElseNew: Most of my kitchens have around 70 frame and panels elements

ElseNew: I use wide boards and butt joints for panels

WOODJS: what type of clamps?

ElseNew: Pipe clamps

Ak Sand: does anyone know what the differance is between white cedar and

yellow or red?

WOODJS: i do around 80 doors per week just trying to find better method

ElseNew: What do you want to use it for Ak

Ak Sand: i am thinking about building a cedar strip canoe,

MalcWarren: Else, made some raised panel doors one time - the frame "popped"

up in the pipe clamp making

MalcWarren: the door uneven... any suggestions?

ElseNew: Have you tried bar clamps and a glue up rack Wood?

WOODJS: yes,, still seems like there should be a better way

Magpiepete: Reverse the clamps

WOODJS: red cedar good foa canoe

ElseNew: Do you mean the surfaces moved out of alignment Malc?

WOODJS: yes

MalcWarren: Hard to describe, but I think reversing the clamps might help as

Mag suggested

GkMATS: Alaska yellow ceder for canoes

MalcWarren: They didn't go out of alignment as much as one edge bent out of

the door plane

ElseNew: I agree with Alaskan Yellow

BGUIL: If time no object, which is best- pocket hole, half-lap, dowel or

biscuit for face frames?

WOODJS: here in MO  lots of red ceddar canoes

Ak Sand: can yellow cedar be glassed over without treating?

ElseNew: Pocket screws are very fast with the proper equipment.  Dowels are

super if you have a sure

MalcWarren: I like the dowel joints - they take some time but I think they

are pretty strong.

ElseNew: method of aligning them

Ak Sand: i was told it has a tendancy to weep sap!

MalcWarren: The dowel jigs on the market seem to work pretty well.

ElseNew: That won't hurt a canoe Ak

Tarnya: What's the conversation tonight?

EKerns: I'm looking for advice for a good top coat on cherry tables. Any

suggestions? I don't want

MalcWarren: cabinets, canoes...

EKerns: to use poly

ElseNew: I havn't had any luck with commercial jigs for doweling Malc

ElseNew: Cabinets Tarnya

MalcWarren: What type of problems Else

Tarnya: Hey-thanks

ElseNew: Alignment

MalcWarren: Did you use the brad point bits?

ElseNew: I used the bushing guides and regular bits without success

ElseNew: Now I have my own jigs and I do use brad points

MalcWarren: I just do the woodworking thing as a hobby, but I have found that

if I'm patient I have

MalcWarren: pretty good success.

Tarnya: For building cabinets-which is better/easier to work with- panelling

or veneer

BGUIL: Speaking of bits, anyone know any forstner sets worth recommending,

regular or carbide?

ElseNew: I have mentioned doweling jigs several times on chats

ElseNew: They have always had the same response-negative

Tarnya: Else-how tough are they to use (never tried)

MalcWarren: Can't argue with that... everyone has their favorites!!

Gberry2: Else : I have a vertical panel rack works great about 25 yrs old

made lots of panels

ElseNew: The commercial jigs are fussy but not difficult-Its the results I

don't like

SOCSAM: I THINK A GOOD BASE OF SHELLAC WELL SANDED AND COVERED WITH POLY

WORKS

ElseNew: Do you glue up horiz and then stack vert Gb?

MalcWarren: The jig most confusing to me are those dovetail jigs - haven't

gotten it to work yet!

Tarnya: Any recommendations on use, or more importantly, when not to use

Tarnya: the dowling jig

ElseNew: I have no problem with them Malc

Gberry2: no they stack as u glue

ElseNew: Dowels are very strong Tarnya You can use anytime

ElseNew: How do you keep very wide panels from tipping while gluing up Gb?

Tarnya: Huuhhh-something new to think of when designing

ElseNew: Have you ever tired loose tenon Tarnya?

Tarnya: No--don't even know what it is

Gberry2: saw one like it in FWW back some time ago ,Else

ElseNew: I wrote that article Gb but it was in Fine Homebuilding

ElseNew: Do you know the mortise and tenon joint Tarnya?

Gberry2: ooook looks like or sem to mine

ElseNew: Loose tenon is just two mortises with a separate tenon

Tarnya: A little-haven't really got that in depth yet--I just recently took

this up as a hobby

Tarnya: though I've been watching a lot of "shows".

MalcWarren: Hey Else, same as the biscuit concept??

WOODJS: if not plain mortise and tenon works good

ElseNew: Very similar except the tenon is not compressed as the bisquit is

Tarnya: I understand the biscuit concept, in fact will be using it in lastest

project

ElseNew: Plain mortise and tenon is good

Gberry2: much stronger than tenon or dowels , loose tenon!!

MalcWarren: I would think that method would be time consuming - loose tenon??

ElseNew: How do you make mortises Wood?

ElseNew: No very fast and easy Malc

MalcWarren: How do you make the mortises??

WOODJS: i have a mortiser on a delta drill press,, had before i seen

dedicated machines

ElseNew: Plunge router Malc

WOODJS: mabee would have went that route but this works

ElseNew: I have an old mortising machine

MalcWarren: Else, how thick of a tenon do you use?

Tarnya: I thinking about purchasing pluge router--any suggestions?

ElseNew: 3/8"

JKuefler: more like one in training

ElseNew: I have a Makita and a Porter Cable both very good

Tarnya: Can't afford Porter Cable, was thinking about Ryobi

MalcWarren: Question about the plunge routers... do they do everything a

regular router does and then

MalcWarren: some??

ElseNew: 3/8" for 5/4 stock and 1/2" for 8/4 Malc

MalcWarren: Are there drawbacks of the plunge over a regular router??

WOODJS: i like bosch better than ryobi

ElseNew: Ys and no Malc. They are very big and cumbersome

Tarnya: I was thinking about DeWalt over the Bosch but can't find any good

info comparing them

ElseNew: AW did a review of both Tarnya

ElseNew: You can get it on line

Tarnya: I'll check that out

Tarnya: Thanks

MalcWarren: Else, you have a woodworking business?

Gberry2: for $ ,3 hp Hitachi is good machine

JKuefler: dewalt's a very durable product by far and comparably priced

ElseNew: Yes Malc

Tarnya: Yeah--but where JK.  I'm in the back of beyond down here.

ElseNew: You can get any machine mail order

Tarnya: Can you order direct from the company

JKuefler: I guess you didnt look next to know where!

ElseNew: Not to my knowledge

Tarnya: Sorry- didn't send fast enough

WOODJS: try sear comercial line, i have 31/2 hp plunge work good sound

machine

WOODJS: try sears

MalcWarren: Is the Sears commercial line DeWalt, WOOD?

ElseNew: I havn't had great luck with Sears routers Wood-Glad to hear you

have though

JKuefler: home depot hase got good prices tarnya

WOODJS: i dont think so but could be,,

Gberry2: sears has coulet as part of armature shaft

MalcWarren: Most of what I have is Sears tools but did have a Router break

once.

Tarnya: Actually-Lowe's is better here but there's only one good one and they

control the market

ElseNew: Where is "here" Tarnya?

Tarnya: Tallahassee, Fl

JKuefler: then sears wood be your better bet

WOODJS: the router i have is very heavy duty slow start, fine adjustable and

not real cheap 270.00

MalcWarren: We have an HQ here in GA but Home Depot and Lowes are moving in

next door... prices should

MalcWarren: be good!!

Tarnya: I prefer lowe's over HD and HQ- nice peopel, better tools overall and

more lumber

ElseNew: The slow start saves on the wear and tear Wood

JKuefler: ive found w/ sears you can barter w/ them on $$

Tarnya: JK didn't know that

ElseNew: Never heard that one JK

MalcWarren: JK, how do you do it?

WOODJS: oh yes lets see you hang on to a 31/2 fast start ,,

JKuefler: bought a bisket jig from them for

JKuefler: $20 reg 45!

MalcWarren: JK, returns room shopping??

ElseNew: LOL Wood

WOODJS: ypu leaving else

WOODJS: you

Tarnya: One Q;  where is this sear?  Will travel

WOODJS: send for cataloge

WOODJS: spell close

MalcWarren: Yes, send for catalog and join their club... get some savings

(maybe 10%)

JKuefler: the box was shot and the guy see's me alot so i had a good rapore

w/ him

WOODJS: box shot trick always works

Tarnya: Ha

WOODJS: did you tear it yyourself?

MalcWarren: Hey JK, maybe you're like me?  Always drooling over the

merchandise?

JKuefler: so i asked him how much & he said make me an offer

MalcWarren: LOL Wood!!

WOODJS: my sears card is maxd

WOODJS: by malcWarren

WOODJS: bye

MalcWarren: By WOOD!!

Tarnya: By Wood

ElseNew: Bye Wood

JKuefler: c-ya

WOODJS: bye everyone

WOODJS: talk to u again

Tarnya: Well guys-I'm out of here tonight but I'll check in later this week

ElseNew: Nite Tarnya

MalcWarren: Else, can I take you back to the dovetail jig thing?

MalcWarren: Buy Tarnya

ElseNew: Sure

MalcWarren: OOPS, bye

Tarnya: Nite all

MalcWarren: The problem I have is getting the pieces to line up after the

dovetails are cut.

JKuefler: c-ya @ sears

MalcWarren: The sears jig I have requires some turning, etc.

ElseNew: There are stops to align the pieces Malc

MalcWarren: I have tried resetting them several times... directions are not

the best.

ElseNew: Take scrap and test.  Play with the settings-or even heaven forbid

read the instructions

MalcWarren: Don't they require you to cut opposite ends or something like

that?

MalcWarren: I don't like directions but in this case I did try them!

ElseNew: I hear people sometimes do that- though I can't say I've seen it

ElseNew: For this jig it is confusing

ElseNew: The directions are usually poorly written

Jrbeall: Why not cut them by hand?

ElseNew: The stop is usually a cam held by a screw

MalcWarren: I could cut them by hand but thought a jig would save me time...

wrong so far!

MalcWarren: Else, it is a plastic cam with numbers on the various sides.

ElseNew: What brand Malc

MalcWarren: Sears

MalcWarren: Does that explain it!!?

Jrbeall: You making drawers or what?

JKuefler: practice practice pratice

ElseNew: Perhaps

MalcWarren: wood, wood, wood!!

JKuefler: scrap scrap scrap

MalcWarren: I'll have to try some more practice, wood, and patience!

Gberry2: Else:Can u brush Hydrocote?

ElseNew: Go git em Malc

JKuefler: good combo!

ElseNew: Can't say Gb don't use much water base-Ask Mike Dresdner on Sunday

nights

Jrbeall: Anyone know a good finish for brass?

MalcWarren: Jr, have you tried a spray lacquer?

ElseNew: Most comes prelacquered Jr

Jrbeall: yes but it doesnt seem to work very well.

MMotes98: Hello

ElseNew: Hi MM

MalcWarren: What types of problems?  I had some old brass and the lacquer

seemed to work OK.

MMotes98: Whats the discussion here?

Gberry2: Nite all LOL

ElseNew: Cabinets MM

JKuefler: hody sit back and smell the sawdust

ElseNew: Nite Gb

Jrbeall: These parts I made myself and they are beffed to high sheen

JKuefler: howdy

MMotes98: Well talk to you all later

MalcWarren: Are you putting the lacquer on too heavy so that it runs?

Jrbeall: No I have an air brush and thin the stuff doen about 20 to 1 bnd it

doesn,t look too bad but

Jrbeall: nto quite what I would like

JKuefler: beers m\t  1/2 times over c-ya

MalcWarren: don't know what to tell ya except buy some polish!

ElseNew: Address that one to Dresdner Jr maybe he can help

Jrbeall: Yeah, well I'll probably work it out eventually

MalcWarren: Is it just not as shiny as you want it Jr?

Jrbeall: thats right.. I want it to be invisible

ElseNew: Well have a nice evening all.  Good luck with the jig Malc

MalcWarren: thanks,  good night