UFO message boards
Article: 1047 of alt.alien.visitors
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From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Book To Read!
Message-ID: <080w02jo090O01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
Date: 1 Jul 91 15:47:33 GMT
References: <71881.286BF336@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com
Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (denise)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 36
In article <71881.286BF336@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:
> >
> > The real thought provoking concept is that he believes that we were
> > created by these beings for a purpose. He relates various creation
> > legends and uses excerpts from the Bible and ancient scrolls of
> > various people.
> >
> > I find it really intresting reading. Anyone else out there read this?
>
>I read as much as I could stomach. It is a carefully veiled lesson in
>Rosicrucianism, if you know what you are reading. I am curious as to what
>parts of it you found so impressive.
>
>Mike
>
I thought I said what I was impressed with. I have now read some of the
writings refered to in the book. There is much there that he did not
even get to. As far as it being "a carefully veiled lesson in
Rosicrucianism" I have to disagree. He states that the "Brotherhoods"
promote social decay and war. I don't believe a Rosicrucian member would
give lessons to discredit themselves. Maybe you should have finished
the first chapter before making such a claim.I do know a bit about
the Rosicrucian order myself. I think I know what I am reading.
I don't claim to believe all stated in the book but I do think the book
is "Thought Provoking". There is a lot of reading available about
possible visitations starting since the dawn of man. This is what I
think is intresting.
--
=========================================================================
All poetry posted is Copyright protected.
Denise Solis - Amdahl Corp. dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com
=========================================================================
Article: 1050 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Observer Left without me !!
Message-ID: <1991Jun30.164804.6856@bilver.uucp>
Date: 30 Jun 91 16:48:04 GMT
References: <1991Jun6.181521.18082@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> <5662@ztivax.UUCP>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 52
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1050 sci.space:19076
In article <5662@ztivax.UUCP> sof3@ztivax.UUCP (Walter Meyer) writes:
>carlos@beowulf.JPL.NASA.GOV (Carlos Carrion) writes:
>} jenkins@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Steve Jenkins) writes:
>} >dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:
>} >>...taken by Viking 1 in 1976. Hoagland believes the Mars observer
>} >>spacecraft was deployed by the Space Shuttle "Atlantis" on
>} >>mission STS-38.
>} >
>} >Wow! I guess we better get busy with the Mars Observer telemetry
>} >system. It's not scheduled for ground testing until later this year.
>} >
>} Wait Up!! I've only just released the Mars Orbit Insertion
>} Sequence to the Flight Team, and MO has been launched already (and
>} by the Shuttle!) ??
>
>Carlos! Steve! Like dudes, get it together! Don Allen is an obvious
>genius who REALLY knows these things. I mean, we must have been out
>to lunch regarding Phobos, right!?!
>
>So, maybe JPL could save a whole lot of money by hiring Don Allen to
>contact the aliens and just TELL us all about the other planets. Then
>we could just go to the beach...
>
>I was thinking about hacking TASS to support author kill like RN, but
>on second thought, with dona in this group I don't need the NatEnq
>for comedy!
>
>David Smyth
>Object X Guru
>Reliable email address coming soon!
David,
You're a funny guy :-)
I don't write these articles, but I do forward them around. In the
BEST tradition of man"kind"; it's "shoot the messenger".
Coupla questions for you:
1). What is the newest buzz on "NewJerusalem" (Hint: Project SETI)
2). What "object" did the Soviets capture on film,just BEFORE Phobos 2
had it's 'problems'?
G'day
Don
--
-* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the rest of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order"
Article: 1051 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INFO: How to join with aliens
Message-ID: <1991Jun30.160046.5246@bilver.uucp>
Date: 30 Jun 91 16:00:46 GMT
References: <91174.152715SML108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 36
In article <91174.152715SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> SML108@psuvm.psu.edu (Scott the Great) writes:
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>This information may be vital to your continued survival. With the approach
>of the 7-11, the truth must be known before it is too late. We are not
>alone! They are watching me at this very minute. MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY!
>
>As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups
>exclusively because I am being pursued by the men in black, donations
>should be sent as often as possible!
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>The following text comes from the MUFFINHEAD BS (1-555-UFO-REAL):
[ Mucho deleted ]
Har Har Har..That was certainly creative. :-)
>--
>-* Duh Alien *- InterNet: donut@dunkin.com // CBM-2000..for the rest of us.
>USnail: 3rd Cluster, Spiral Arm, Earth \X// Why use anything else? >:^)
>UUCP: ..uunet!uufo!mothership!me 0110 0110 0110 Just say BEEP!
>Illuminati < Randi|Consumer's Union|PTA|YMCA|USDA|Mr. Ed > WAR = PEACE
ROTF (that's Rolling on the floor)..
I sure hope your major is in advertising. :^_)
Don
--
-* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the rest of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order"
Article: 1052 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs!
From: woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Chris Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Message-ID: <1991Jul02.024831.9870@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Date: 2 Jul 91 02:48:31 GMT
References: <1991Jun20.092852.26388@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> <1991Jun21.082452.6546@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>
Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU
Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept.
Lines: 64
Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu
In article <1991Jun21.082452.6546@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> rxxgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Rey Evans) writes:
>> OK, IMAGINE THIS: Aliens come upon this tiny developing planet called
>>Earth a few thousand years ago. The inhabitants on the planet have no way
>>of communicating with aliens through radio transmitions so rather than wait
>>a few thousand years to send radio transmitions, they constructed a huge
>>face on the nearest planet outward from our own. Perhaps there is no real
>>'messages' behind the face, maybe all they wanted to do is let us know that
>>intelligent life does exist elsewhere but they're not trying to tell us
>>anything just yet. If they were to build a city like structure on the face
>>of Mars, that would be misleading and might cause us to errorneously believe
>>that their civilization was located at some time on Mars. A face however
>>would be perfect! For most people, when they think of intelligent life forms
>>they immediately think of humans or humanoid beings, so what better way would
>>there be than to construct a face on a neighboring planet. It has no message
>>other than to tell us that other beings know of our existance.
>
>> A face also can stand the test of time. In the thousands of years that it
>>would take for us to get to the point that we are at now, their alien race
>>might have become extinct therefore they would then be unable to send radio
>>transmittions... they may have anticipated this and prepared for the worst.
>>A solid humanoid face would likely exist long enough for us to find it though
>>and realize that we have been watched for quite some time.
>>
>> Also, a face constructed on a neighboring planet would ensure that we would
>>only begin to know about them when we are ready to except their existance.
>>We have the technological capability now to observe the face on Mars, if we
>>were to know of the existance of an alien race before we achieved our
>>current level of technology, then it may have affected our technological
>>evolution.
>
>> I feel a face structure on Mars would be perfect for that type of
>>communication.
>
>>--
>>+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
>>| Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
>>| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown |
>>+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Oh dear oh dear oh dear...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>How boring can life on earth be....totally wierd man.
>Where can I get some of that shit you're smoking ???
>
>--
I just offered this person my view on one possible scenario. In my opinion
it is the best explaination of WHY a face may exist if it was created by
intelligent life.
And quite frankly, I resent your comments. It really pisses me off when
people make comments on a subject without contributing towards getting to
the truth behind that subject. Instead of making statements erroneously
implying that I smoke 'shit', perhaps you could contribute some facts or
opinions on this matter to help us understand it better (whether it is a
humanoid face structure, or something that just resembles it). Attempts
at ridicule are not only wasteful, but disrespectful.
--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
Article: 1053 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs!
From: woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Chris Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Mars face.
Message-ID: <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Date: 2 Jul 91 03:08:53 GMT
References: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk>
Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU
Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept.
Lines: 79
Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu
In article <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk> Ian Stirling <printf@cix.compulink.co.uk> writes:
>>For one thing, assuming this potential race is somewhat similar in
>>intelligence to us (for the sake of argument!), why would they have
>>allowed themselves to become extinct...indeed how would they have
>>known about their impending destruction? Either way, this is all
>>speculation, and I believe if an extraterrestrial race of even mild
>>intelligence wanted to leave us a message of ANY sort, I believe they
>>would do it in a way that would leave no doubt about their existence.
>>Could you imagine the time and expense they would have to endure
>>whilst making this so-called "face"? And then when we do find this
>>"Face" we don't quite know what to make of it! It's far to complex a
>>medium of communication to use. Why wouldn't they leave something a
>>little more profound, like maybe a model of a human skeleton,
>>complete with very visible structures. (ie structures that can be
>>seen from ANY direction). This is just too much imporbability for me,
>>I think we must just wait and see if anything else comes along which
>>offers a little more proof.
>>
>>Later, Max.
>>
>>_____________________________________________________________________________-
>
>>Themax BBS, experimental | themax.bison.mb.ca
>> |
>> | 8-1462 Pembina Hwy, Wpg., MB.
>> |
>> |
>>R3T 2C3 Canada |
>>
>Or maybe something simple,like a radio message on many frequencys
>going off every hundred years.
>Mail to either |PLEASE do not send large
>Printf%cix@ukc.ac.uk |(>20K)mail messages as
>Printf@cix.compulink.co |I get charged for them.
>Printf@cix.uucp |
>one of these may work |
I have lost access to many of these articles the last week or so, so I
do not know if this article is in responce to mine... I'll assume it is.
I'm not saying that they would have become extinct, just that they may
have taken a precaution to ensure that a message to another intelligent
lifeform would exist in CASE they should become extinct. Maybe that does
not have anything to do with it at all, perhaps the purpose of the face
is just to ensure that we will know of other intelligent beings when we
were both technologicly capable of it and when we are emotionally ready for
it. We current have the technology. A face also provides an amount of doubt
which would ease us into the awareness of their existance. I really don't
think it would be wise to just march right into a civilization and
anounce your presence. It would be more wise to slowly increase awareness
of your existance and test them before you interact with them. If I were
in their place, I would want to slowly give them a few clues to our
existance and wait for them to become ready to accept us. Their 'readiness'
may be determined by how the general public reacts to the thought of
our presence if the roles were reveresed (whether the people fear us, welcome
us, or how well educated they are of us through rumours).
Anyway, back to the possibility of their extinction... who knows why
they may have become extinct, perhaps they have been at war with other alien
races that are perhaps even more advanced than they are. Look at us, we still
possibly face extinction should a large scale nuclear war take place, a more
primitive race might think that we are beyond extinction because of all
our wonderful technology, but the truth is we very much have our limitations.
Sure, all of this is just speculation, but that's all we have in this
situation and sometimes that's what's needed to make progress.
You mentioned that they could have left a message in the form of a model
of a human skeleton, which I admit would be a good idea, but what if that
were the situation? Then someone would likely come up with the argument
asking why they didn't simply leave a face? The point is is that if it was
created by intelligent life, there are a number of ways they COULD have done
it, and it makes no sence to keep coming up with arguments to conform to
our beliefs. You think a skeleton would be better suited, I think a face is
best suited... perhaps they (if 'they' exist) for some reason or another
decided that a face would be better... that's not saying that other methods
of communication weren't considered.
--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Area 51?
Message-ID: <jms.4805@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 2 Jul 91 15:59:52 GMT
References: <Jun.27.10.27.49.1991.7091@galaxy.rutgers.edu>
Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence
Lines: 34
Area 51 is a real installation, and people apparently have been seing
"things" flying around it at night. Of course it's possible that it's just
some new variation on the various Stealth projects. (I haven't been there
personally, so I don't know exactly *what* they're seeing. The only video
I've seen just shows a light. But there have sightings of things out
west which are apparently planes but are more advanced than any plane the
public knows about.)
As for Lazar, he can't produce a whole lot to verify his identity. As he
said though, it looks like someone's trying to make him disappear. The
last I heard, someone found a W-2 form that proved he worked for the
government, but that's about it. He's a smart guy, but I don't know
whether his claims are true or not.
One thing I found interesting was a description in an transcript of an
interview that I read a while ago when his story was new. (This "Current
Affair" was a re-run, and the story was a year or so old when it ran the
first time. Las Vegas TV stations had a ball with it.) The description
was of the sound and appearance of the UFO as it flew. It was almost
*exactly* like the description of the flight of T. T. Brown's flying discs
given by Moore in "The Philadelphia Experiment." Of course, Brown's discs
couldn't fly on their own because they had to be connected to their power
source by a cable. But my point is that it looks and sounds like the
Biefeld-Brown effect, which is a lot simpler than the mechanism Lazar says
they use. (Of course, maybe the aliens have produced a very powerful
electrical generator based on element 115, but that's *not* what Lazar
says. He says that element 115 generates a gravity wave and they amplify
and control that.)
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "Let's become
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms | alive again."
37 Brook Street | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms |
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | --Yes
Article: 1056 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!dali.cs.montana.edu!milton!serval!luke.eecs.wsu.edu!dfrank
From: dfrank@luke.eecs.wsu.edu (Duane D. Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Summary: I've said this before...
Message-ID: <1991Jul2.180602.13939@serval.net.wsu.edu>
Date: 2 Jul 91 18:06:02 GMT
References: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk> <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Sender: news@serval.net.wsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Washington State University
Lines: 16
I've said this before on this newsgroup, and it looks like it's time to
interject it again. Why can't the face on Mars be a natural rock formation?
There are at least a dozen rock formations on earth that can pass as human
faces from the right angle. Why can't it just be luck that we happened to
get a picture of the right patch of ground where this rock formation is?
Why not spend multi-billion dollars and send a probe to check the thing out,
land on the forehead and walk around or something? Who knows, maybe there
is a roc formation here on earth that is quite large that looks like a
martian perhaps? In any event, I think that what is being seen on Mars is
a coincidentally shaped piece of rock.
--
Just another silly signature file by Chet
dfrank@cs2.cs.wsu.edu, dfrank@yoda.UUCP, 22414843@WSUVM1.BITNET
And others
(References available upon request)
Article: 1057 of alt.alien.visitors
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From: wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face.
Message-ID: <UcQ8G2i00WAuQN6lYC@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: 2 Jul 91 13:49:54 GMT
References: <1991Jun23.014250.5222@demon.co.uk>,
<1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: <1991Jul02.030853.10642@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
It's amazing how much people can create from so little.
-Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]
Article: 1063 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Book To Read!
Message-ID: <71935.28715AB9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 3 Jul 91 04:35:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO
Lines: 53
> From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis)
> Date: 1 Jul 91 15:47:33 GMT
> Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
> Message-ID: <080w02jo090O01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
>
> I thought I said what I was impressed with. I have now read some of the
> writings refered to in the book. There is much there that he did not
> even get to. As far as it being "a carefully veiled lesson in
> Rosicrucianism" I have to disagree. He states that the "Brotherhoods"
> promote social decay and war. I don't believe a Rosicrucian member would
> give lessons to discredit themselves. Maybe you should have finished
> the first chapter before making such a claim.I do know a bit about
> the Rosicrucian order myself. I think I know what I am reading.
Forgive my insensitivity by not noticing where you are located, and that you are probably
involved with the Rosicrucians. However, I must disagree. The book is about
the evolution of the Rosy Cross, of which I know a great deal about. It is
one of my specialties, researching various belief systems and their roots.
BTW, notice where the book is published -- San Jose, California. However,
this is not really the point, and I should have made it more clear with my
last posting. I object to yet another author filling several hundred pages
with carefully veiled religious material and theory, all the while holding it
out as fact. This, in my opinion, is no better than Von Daniken's writing
about the ancient astronauts. I have read Sitchin's work as well and continue
to find this pattern emerging among these type authors -- forcing a poorly
drawn hypothesis into archaeological findings that elude that we are the
product of alien cultivation. Although this may prove to be true someday, it
is nothing more than a weak argument. I find it fascinating that after
several hundred years of discovery that we have never found any proof to
support that any type of advanced civilization cross-bred us, not even an
artifact! Although we have found sufficient evidence that while some of the
ancient's methods appeared to be advanced for their time, their tools and
intellect were not evolved enough to even begin to attack the problem of space
flight, much less flight. I say to these folks such as Bramley and Sitchin,
"leave science science and pseudo-science at home." :-)
> I don't claim to believe all stated in the book but I do think the book
> is "Thought Provoking". There is a lot of reading available about
> possible visitations starting since the dawn of man. This is what I
> think is intresting.
If you want thought provoking, try the Apocrypha and Pseudopigrapha of the Old
Testament edited by Charlesworth. A very brilliant scholarly work, and one
that really provokes thought.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Article: 1065 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!unido!mpirbn!p581mao
From: p581mao@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Martin Ott)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Mars face discussion
Message-ID: <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>
Date: 3 Jul 91 14:53:57 GMT
Reply-To: p581mao@mpirbn.UUCP (Martin Ott)
Distribution: alt
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut fuer Radioastronomie, Bonn
Lines: 22
Hello there,
could someone please explain to me the `sense` of this discussion.
To me and most people I know it is obvious that this `face`-stone
was modeled by wind and sand-storms. The appearance of the
stone was due to additional light effects. As I saw lots of
`mesa`-mountains last week in the southwest of USA, I never had the idea
that they probably were shaped by our `ancestors` from other planets.
The face-stone photographed 1 hour later would probably look
as any other stone up there.
regards
Martin
--
) -----------------------
( | Martin Ott ; p581mao@c1a.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (internet)
_ / |"Reach a conclusion, then twist the evidence to fit!"(Asimov,Found.V,442)
U/ |Am Anfang war das Wort ... ... am Ende nur noch Eisensechsundfuenfzig !
Article: 1068 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham
From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face discussion
Message-ID: <1991Jul3.165723.7741@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 3 Jul 91 16:46:16 GMT
References: <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>
Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Distribution: alt
Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana
Lines: 32
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4
In article <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>, p581mao@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Martin Ott) writes...
>
>To me and most people I know it is obvious that this `face`-stone
How is it "obvious"?
>was modeled by wind and sand-storms. The appearance of the
>stone was due to additional light effects.
That's what some armchair skeptics claim, but I believe that has
been shown NOT to be the case with the so-called "face".
>
>The face-stone photographed 1 hour later would probably look
>as any other stone up there.
Nope. See above.
It is very likely that it is just a pile of rocks (actually this is
true regardless :-), but until we go back and take a closer look, further
discussion is nothing more than rhetoric.
Jim
-> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
Neither do they speak for me.
______________________________________________________________________
| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
| UUCP: dolmen!graham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
|______________________________________________________________________|
Article: 2050 of alt.paranormal
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!applelink.Apple.com!showen
From: showen@applelink.Apple.com (Don Showen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: UFOs
Message-ID: <14401@goofy.Apple.COM>
Date: 3 Jul 91 19:04:54 GMT
Sender: usenet@Apple.COM
Organization: Apple Computer
Lines: 158
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1070 sci.skeptic:12634 alt.paranormal:2050 talk.religion.newage:5890
This partial letter is reprinted from the book
UFO CONTACT FROM THE PLEIADES A
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
BY Wendelle C. Stevens published 1989
It is copyrighted by Wendelle C. Stevens
The problem ... , is the key to understanding most of the
American Government and Western Europe GovernmentUs
approach to UFOs. In 1945, when it was first proven that
UFOs were real, from space, operated by intelligent
beings, most of whom where human in form, the American
Government did a soft touch check to see what the great
unwashed public would say, and how the public would
respond to UFOs, and space people, if the President
informed the public over National radio.
The results of the investigation would truly frost a
thinking mans balls. The public s response was all bad.
97% of the public took one or two approaches. Shot first
and ask questions later. Or call the UFOs agents of the
devil, the prince of the power of the air, the ant-Christ. and
set up an even worse situation, where UFOs would became
a real negative religious issue. What was surprising was
the response of the Religious leadership, which was by far
worse than the general public s response. It could only be
called grim news.
The science community showed no leadership at all,
just a super case of stupidity, and prejudice.
As you might guess, the original investigations were
by military men, under orders from General Marshal, under
the direction or the President. And if you know your military
men, finding one who wants to get into a fight with the
preachers, over what is, or is not the Anti-Christ, when
neither the military man, nor the preacher know a hell of a
lot of factual information, about either the Anti-Christ, or the
UFOs, would be a lot like sending a blind person out to spot
UFOs. Just as soon as the blind man spots the first UFO the
military will get into the fight with the preachers over the
Anti-Christ.
To say that the military seriously avoided the
potential conflict with the religious community would be an
understatement. To say that the military community
successfully avoided a fight with the religious community
over UFOs, would be an accurate observation. To say that
the military was real damned sneaky about how they
informed the public about UFOs, would also be an accurate
observation.
The military mind will draw conclusions that the
religious mind will not. The military mind quickly figured out
that if the UFOs wanted to take over the world, they had the
speed, science, and fire power to do so. Hence, the military
concluded UFO were working by other rules, The general
nature of the rules the individuals in the UFOs would be
working under could be projected, based on previous
contact records, how ever skimpy the records.
In other words the military figured it was a safe
assumption that the UFOs would not radically change their
actions in modern times, but would stick with the casual hit
and miss system of the past.
The military mind drew one conclusion. The single
most important thing to do, in the situation it was in, namely
sitting on some hot, highly controversial information, was to
keep the general public from a bad response, by
controlling the public s response to UFOs. In other words
keep that damned religious mentality out of the issues
involved, as long as possible .
But, do not ever say that the military never did
anything about informing the public about the existence of
UFOs. That will mean you have not figured out the methods
used by the Government to spread the word about UFOs.
You might say the military took the Bibles advice about not
to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.
The Military pulled the very same trick that Moses
pulled, when he did not like the attitude of his troops, after
crossing the Red Sea. He took the time to grow a new batch
troops, whos response and thinking was more to his liking,
And that is what the military did about UFOs.
The military also found a problem as bad, or worse,
than the religious mind. Have you have ever noticed,
Scientist are about as bad as the preachers, when it comes
to UFOs? Especially in the old days. What you missed is the
little detail that Scientist, of the old pre-UFO school got their
basic concept of the Universe from an insane preacher. A
Catholic Pope. That basic concept is the idea that man is
alone in the Universe, and the only intelligent life in the
universe.
Going into the dark ages all societies leaving
records, in any amount, left some kind of UFO record.
Those that left verbal histories left verbal records of UFOs.
In effect it was known prior to the Dark Ages that man was
not alone in the Universe, that other intelligence beings
were out there screwing around. Even the damned cave
and rock drawings show UFO activity.
The Greeks and the Romans also knew that the
world was round. The Greeks had even tried to measure
the size of the earth using wells and sun light.
The insane Catholic Pope decided that he was the
most important thing in the Universe, and that the Universe
revolved around him, The basic idea that the world was flat
was imposed upon the world by an insane Pope, which in
effect made the earth the Center of the universe. That Pope
also expanded on the powers of the Pope, in effect saying
that he was not only at the center of the Universe, he was
all that was good, smart, and holy at the center of the
Universe.
That pope also pitched the idea that man was alone
in the Universe. That of course left the Pope the smartest
man in the Universe.
When the Science-Religion fight of the early science
days started, science in general won out. The one idea that
the Scientist took from an insane Pope, which they loved as
an idea, and used as their very own idea, was the idea that
man is alone in the Universe.
The idea that man is alone in the Universe, if valid,
would the make Scientist the smartest, and best educated
beings in the Universe. The Science communitys response
to the coming of UFOs, and the possible drop in status from
the smartest thing in the Universe, was some what worse
than the religious communities response to UFOs. UFOs
rather obviously put the modern scientist in the position of
being a backward person in knowledge, on a backward
world, And farther insulted the scientist, by not bothering to
make any contact with him. Few, if any of the scientist
involved gave up their status, as the smartest and best
educated beings in the universe willingly. Most of the older
ones died with that idea in their head. The idea man was
the only intelligent life in the Universe.
The existence of UFOs truly lowers the status of the
religious and scientific leaders of the world. They resisted
such a lowering in their status, particularly the scientist.
...I know it to be a fact, having talked to a man who
made the trip with him, that Ike had dinner on a space ship.
I also know that the Queen of England has been on a space
ship, once for medical treatment.
UFO Photo Archieves
P.O. Box 17206
Tucson, Arizona 85710
Don Showen
Article: 1071 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!am.dsir.govt.nz!marcamd!mercury!kcbbs!kc
From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Asteroids & UFOs
Message-ID: <1991Jul4.182603.24397@kcbbs.gen.nz>
Date: 4 Jul 91 18:26:03 GMT
Lines: 28
Organisation: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
---Thier has just been a conference in California on Near Earth asteroids
sponsored in part by The Planetary Society in which a call was put out
for funding of a more comprehensive monitoring system as currently thier
are only 4 searches being conducted 1 in Australia & 3 in USA & with
a number of close calls (astronomically speaking) recently its thought
by some the risk of collision has been underestimated (David Morisson
of NASA has now put a risk of some kind at 1 in 6000) & with about 80
Near Earth asteroids known & onejust 3 metres wide being capable of
devestating a small city those concerned (potentially everyone) should
pull out thier thumb & get cracking on scanning the skies.
--------Thought comes to mind! Whats the chance of getting 1 or more
of those 4 asteroid searches or the more extensive 1 if it gets of the
ground (so to speak) to scan for UFOs of a possibly artificial variety
maybe an ETI modified asteroid (an old SF idea) taking an ocassional
look at those idiotic humans (maybe were light relief for ETI)
Whatever the scientists think of that someone should at least get the
DOD types to release any satellite tracking data (from GEODSS,old Baker
Nunn,SPADATS etc) that might show something more mysterious than the
odd very odd unidentified space debris.-----------Could keep someone
occupied sorting the Earth launched satellite tracks from the potentially
non earth launched satellites.
***************************
ARE THOSE ETOIs SPACESHIPS
SHY OR ARE THEY JUST
WAITING TO SIGN THE ROYALTY DEAL
********************************
Article: 1076 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars Face.
Message-ID: <71945.2872B219@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 4 Jul 91 04:23:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO
Lines: 35
> From: dfrank@luke.eecs.wsu.edu (Duane D. Frank)
> Date: 2 Jul 91 18:06:02 GMT
> Organization: Washington State University
> Message-ID: <1991Jul2.180602.13939@serval.net.wsu.edu>
> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
>
>
> I've said this before on this newsgroup, and it looks like it's time to
> interject it again. Why can't the face on Mars be a natural rock
> formation?
> There are at least a dozen rock formations on earth that can pass as
> human
> faces from the right angle. Why can't it just be luck that we happened
> to
> get a picture of the right patch of ground where this rock formation is?
> Why not spend multi-billion dollars and send a probe to check the thing
> out,
> land on the forehead and walk around or something? Who knows, maybe
> there
> is a roc formation here on earth that is quite large that looks like a
> martian perhaps? In any event, I think that what is being seen on Mars
> is
> a coincidentally shaped piece of rock.
I feel that there is a good probability that this is exactly what it is,
however I am for open mindedness to allow that NASA *will* be taking a much
closer look at that area of Mars in the near future.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Article: 1078 of alt.alien.visitors
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!src.honeywell.com!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!talon!orstcs!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!woodc
From: woodc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Chris Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars face discussion
Message-ID: <1991Jul04.115219.29148@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU>
Date: 4 Jul 91 11:52:19 GMT
References: <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>
Sender: @lynx.CS.ORST.EDU
Distribution: alt
Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept.
Lines: 50
Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu
In article <2130@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> p581mao@mpirbn.UUCP (Martin Ott) writes:
>
>Hello there,
>
>could someone please explain to me the `sense` of this discussion.
>
>To me and most people I know it is obvious that this `face`-stone
>was modeled by wind and sand-storms. The appearance of the
>stone was due to additional light effects. As I saw lots of
>`mesa`-mountains last week in the southwest of USA, I never had the idea
>that they probably were shaped by our `ancestors` from other planets.
>
>The face-stone photographed 1 hour later would probably look
>as any other stone up there.
>
>regards
>Martin
>
>--
> ) -----------------------
> ( | Martin Ott ; p581mao@c1a.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (internet)
> _ / |"Reach a conclusion, then twist the evidence to fit!"(Asimov,Found.V,442)
> U/ |Am Anfang war das Wort ... ... am Ende nur noch Eisensechsundfuenfzig !
If it's existance is due to errosion, then it wouldn't have been created
any time in the (relative) recent past (on a planetary time scale) considering
that Mars has almost no atmosphere. It has less than 1/100th of the Earths
atmosphere so errorsion caused by storms in the relative past seem quite
unlikely. True at one time there could have been an atmosphere and water on
Mars to cause errosion, but it seems to me that errosion would cause a more
smooth, less detailed structure (though it's true that I don't have a picture
of a highly detail structure of the so called face).
I'm not neccessarily trying to push the idea that the structure on Mars
is artificially created, I'm just saying that you should be unbiased
no matter how rediculous an idea seems. It is my opinion that one should
should look at the situation with the attitude of "well, what if it really
is an artificial structure". We have no proof that it is an artificial
structure, but simply stating that natural structures on Earth exist
resembling faces when viewed from specific angles does not disprove that
it is an artificial structure either. Too many people seem to think that
that's the end of the argument right there... in my opinion that's a lazy,
incompetent way of thinking.
--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Chris Wood | "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
| woodc@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | -unknown |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
Article: 6307 of alt.conspiracy
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: INFO:LAZAR - Billy Goodman interview -Part 1
Keywords: Robert Lazar -UFO - Area51
Message-ID: <1991Jul4.014753.15326@bilver.uucp>
Date: 4 Jul 91 01:47:53 GMT
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 1458
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:1082 alt.conspiracy:6307
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation
of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The
content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal
views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims
represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts
at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it
yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will
leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-)
As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups
exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp
in mail.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The following file(s) appeared on the Paranet UFO network in the late
1989 to 1990 time period. The following files are on Robert Lazar and
are copyrighted by Paranet to insure their intgrity. I have not
gotten express permission to re-publish them here; however it's my
*intent* to make them available for their informational content only.
If you re-circulate these files, please leave the Paranet header info
INTACT. These files originally appeared in message form and some of them
have been condensed to conserve bandwidth,meaning I have taken the
liberty of consolidating several messages together. Other than that
action, they are left untouched.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is part 1 of the Billy Goodman radio interview with Robert Lazar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DATE OF UPLOAD: December 27, 1989
ORIGIN OF UPLOAD: KVEG Radio; Las Vegas, Nevada
CONTRIBUTED BY: Robert B. Klinn/ParaNet Director of Research and
Investigations
========================================================
(C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service
All Rights Reserved unless copyrighted by Author.
========================================================
Below is the transcript of the Billy Goodman Happening Show
as it aired on December 20, 1989. Robert Lazar was the guest of
Billy Goodman.
==================================================================
12/20/89
Billy Goodman
Goodman:
What exactly does Area S-4 mean?
Lazar:
I really don't know. It might be referred to as "Site" 4 --
that might be what the "S" is for, but I really don't know.
There are THREE S-4's in all of the Nevada Test Site. The
nuclear test site itself is a small area, and it has "sites"
or "areas" 1 to 29 or 30. The S-4 there, I think, is a
nuclear reactor. There's an S-4 just south of the Tonopah test
range. And there's an S-4 -- the one that I worked at -- just
south of Groom Lake.
Goodman:
Bob Lazar, while working there as a Government scientist, saw
not only one but as many as nine flying saucers. And he's
telling the whole world about it. He wants everybody to know
that in fact there are flying saucers out there. Last time
you were here, you never really told us what are their plans
with these flying saucers. Do you have any idea WHY we have
flying saucers at this point?
Lazar:
I guess it's just essentially research. The idea is to back-
engineer them, to go back and find out how they can be duplicated
using earthly materials and technology.
606:
Is it possible these machines travel in time back and forth?
Lazar:
It's certainly possible. Certainly, when you create any
artificial gravitational field, you technically move in your
own time. So technically, you do slip forward when you create
your own intense gravitational field.
606:
BACK in time too?
Lazar:
Theoretically, that's possible. Exactly how you would do that,
I don't know off the top of my head.
606:
So that could be used like a time machine, right?
Lazar:
Essentially yeah, that is --
606:
For time travel?
Lazar:
-- that is possible.
606:
Wow! That's really something!
Lazar:
Yeah, that's science-fiction-like.
Fritz, Westlake, California:
Billy, it is sizzling again on the West Coast. Bob Lazar,
thank you very much for coming on again. You must come on.
This has got to go nationwide. The cat is out of the bag.
I'm sure those little gods in S-54 are listening in, and
believe me, it's your best security to come on. If anything
happens to you, we're all behind you, Bob Lazar -- everybody.
This is like a snowball going down the hill and will become an
avalanche, and ignorance will be wiped out. We've got to know
the truth -- for once and forever. They are here! Let's find
out why they are here and who they are and what their purpose is.
Lazar:
Well thank you!
Fritz:
Okay Bob, we're all behind you. Billy, keep that show going!
It's the Number One show in America in talk shows.
Goodman:
Well, thank you very much Fritz. He did explain to you why we
have flying saucers, right?
Fritz:
Well, I know why they are here. The general public has to become
aware; they're just wakening up. It's like a film being lifted
from their eyes. I mean, they've been laughing for forty years!
Goodman:
Wait a minute Fritz. You know why they're here? Why are they
here, Fritz?
Fritz:
Well, first of all, it's a conditioning process.
Goodman:
Okay, you got it.
Fritz:
We are in a quarantine because we are so ignorant; our ignorance
keeps us from meeting them. Big brother reaches out the hand and
says, "Come over, little brother, let's have the cosmic connection,"
but we have to become a world together -- earthlings.
We are about 170 nations -- 170 languages; we have to come together.
When we have a spokesman, then we will meet on equal ground.
Tim from Pasadena:
When you looked into the saucer, how does the hatch work? How
does it seal up, and what are all of the mechanics involved?
Lazar:
The hatch -- or whatever it was -- was completely removed; there was
just an opening in the side of the craft.
Tim:
Did the opening have any kind of sealing around it or a lip?
Lazar:
I really don't remember. 'Cause I was so interested in looking
inside, I didn't really catch a strong glimpse of the sealing
mechanism or any other thing around it.
Tim:
When you were previously on Billy's show, you said you looked into
one, and it was all smooth like it had been a wax casting.
Lazar:
Yeah, exactly.
Tim:
Now, was that the only one you looked into?
Lazar:
No, it was the only one I looked into. The other ones I just saw
from a distance, so I don't know any detail about them.
Tim:
And the one you looked into, was that the "Sport Model"?
Lazar:
Yes, exactly.
Tim:
And that's the only one you saw fly as well?
Lazar:
Right.
Tim:
What was your work there?
Lazar:
Like I said before, it was essentially to back-engineer the
propulsion and power system.
Tim:
So you weren't really involved in the mechanics of the craft
itself?
Lazar:
No, not at all.
Tim:
But mostly just the Element 115 and all that kind of stuff you
were learning about?
Lazar:
Right.
Goodman:
What is gravity?
Lazar:
Gravity is a wave. It's a force, essentially, just like
electromagnetic waves are a different type of force. I really don't
know a good way to describe gravity.
Goodman:
Einstein and other scientists really don't have an answer for what
gravity is, do they, totally; they don't really understand it
totally, do they?
Lazar:
No, no, not at all. In fact, I don't think we understand
ANYTHING about gravity.
Goodman:
Why don't we just float away ourselves? What keeps us down
on the planet?
Lazar:
That is the attractive force of gravity.
Goodman:
Some people say it presses down, but it doesn't, does it?
Lazar:
No, it doesn't. It's an attractive force. It's like, on
an atomic scale, the strong and weak nuclear forces hold the
atoms individually together.
Goodman:
Is your actual title government scientist or physicist?
Lazar:
You could use either one.
Goodman:
You are no longer a government scientist or physicist, right?
Lazar:
Not employed by the government.
Goodman:
But you are continuing in the scientific field. What do you do?
Lazar:
I design and build advanced radiation detection equipment,
mainly alpha radiation equipment for essentially use in
detecting plutonium for national laboratories.
Lee Samuels:
How long has that craft been on this earth?
Lazar:
I really don't know. I don't even know how long it's
been down at S-4.
Samuels:
Do you know where it originally landed?
Lazar:
No, you got me on all that stuff. They really never keep me
in as to --
Samuels:
It could have been here for years?
Lazar:
Yeah. Or it could have been brought in in pieces from
somewhere else, too.
Samuels:
Did you see just one craft or a number of craft?
Lazar:
I saw a number of them.
Samuels:
Did the other workers talk about it, where it came from,
or more they towed in, or whatever?
Lazar:
I don't know. There really wasn't that much conversation
between everyone.
Samuels:
Were you by yourself when you were investigating the craft?
Lazar:
Walking by myself. There were security people around me,
but when I crawled underneath on the sub-floor to look at
the gravity amplifiers, I got away from them. But there
was no one right next to me the whole time.
Samuels:
Any evidence of LIVE aliens held captive?
Lazar:
Nothing I could put my finger on.
Samuels:
Then you didn't get to see any at all then in that sector?
Lazar:
Nothing I could put my finger on.
Samuels:
Did the craft have sleeping quarters for aliens? Is it like
a Star Trek craft? What kind of craft is it?
Lazar:
No, it's pretty vacant inside. Granted, a couple of things
were removed; they were sawed off at the base. I don't
know what they were; I just saw little stumps on the ground,
so I don't know what was removed. But it doesn't look
like it had anything like sleeping quarters or anything
like that.
Samuels:
Any writing you could detect or any language on the walls?
Lazar:
No.
Samuels:
Any panels, like a dashboard on a car?
Lazar:
Yeah. In fact, that was one of the things -- There was more
than one control panel set up, but it looks like one was
removed.
Samuels:
Were these craft all from the same source? Were they all
identical?
Lazar:
No. Each craft was completely different in physical
appearance. I didn't get to look in depth at the other
craft, but I only fooled around with one.
Samuels:
I applaud your courage.
Caller (referring to a certain book):
Have you heard of him?
Lazar:
I think I thumbed through that book once. I think John
Lear --
Caller:
What the heck is an energy grid on our planet?
Lazar:
I don't know. I don't buy that theory or anything in
that book. It's a grid outlined over the entire globe,
and at each intersection there's an energy vortex of
some kind. I'd rather not comment since I don't buy it.
Caller:
On TV you mentioned something about a time warp and a
folding over. What did you mean by that?
Lazar:
Right. It's how gravity, whether produced artificially
or naturally, distorts time and space.
Caller:
I read about Nicola Tesla questioning Einstein's theory
of relativity. He says that energy DOESN'T come from
matter. Where does it come from if it doesn't come
from matter?
Lazar:
That's a strange question. It can be EXTRACTED from
matter. But it can be extracted by other means, too.
I really don't understand that [question].
Tom from Los Angeles:
How can UFOs be kept secret for 40 years?
Lazar:
I did pose that question to some people at S-4, and the
answer that I got was that it's the easiest thing TO keep
secret because of the subject matter.
Tom:
Is that because it's tied in with a lot of parapsychology-
psychic-type stuff -- National Enquirer?
Lazar:
Maybe so. There is so much disinformation made so available
to the public via the tabloids and things like that that
any true information getting out is assumed to originate
from those sources.
Tom:
Carl Sagan is a "people" scientist; he's brought science
down to the general public. What about getting him involved
in this somehow?
Lazar:
I imagine he's fairly open-minded. I've never met him.
Tom:
He's one of the biggest UFO debunkers.
Lazar:
He's going to need his own proof, as everyone should require.
It's impossible to make an absolute believer out of someone
that hasn't had hands-on experience or has seen something for
themselves. That's the way any scientist is going to look
at it.
Tom:
How far is Zeta Reticuli?
Lazar:
I think it's around 32 light years.
Tom:
Do these ships travel faster than light?
Lazar:
It's an irrelevant question because they get around it
because they're not in a linear mode of travel. Since they're
distorting time and space, there's no true time reference.
And since velocity is distance over time, when you begin to
fool around with time, you really can't state a true velocity.
Tom:
Re the SETI program -- the search for radio signals --
couldn't some of these observatories or telescopes be aimed
at the places where aliens supposedly come from?
Lazar:
RADIO waves and frequencies along that band aren't utilized;
it's GRAVITY wave communication, and a radio-telescope isn't
going to pick up anything of that sort.
Goodman:
The way you got to see this UFO was not planned by anyone
wanting you to see it, right? You were walking with security
and you went into a doorway. How did you describe that before?
Lazar:
It may have been planned by them. I had no advance warning of
it. I had been brought in a separate door the whole time, and
one specific time I was just led into the area where I worked --
through the hangar doors, which I had never been in before --
walked directly by the craft, and began to slow down by it,
and they said, "Just keep walking; keep your eyes forward," and
it was just like that.
Nothing was said, and I just went and sat down in an empty room.
Goodman:
You went and sat down in an empty room after you saw it?
Lazar:
Yeah, waited for this guy that I worked with, Barry, and then
we went to work on some of the work we were assigned to.
Goodman:
What was some of the work that you actually did? What did
you actually do at S-4? When you had an assignment, what would
it have been, for example?
Lazar:
Most of the time I worked there I was being briefed and being
brought up to date on what had been done before. Most of
the hands-on bench work was with the anti-matter reactor
itself: being shown how it operated, giving demonstrations,
and things of that sort.
Goodman:
There was practically no communication with your fellow workers?
Lazar:
Right. They kept that to an absolute minimum. They were on the
buddy system: you always worked with someone, and that's the
person you communicated with, and there was really no cross-
talk between groups.
Goodman:
When you went there for the initial interview, you said at
the time they actually had a gun at your head --
Lazar:
No, that was at the security briefing.
Goodman:
Security, wherever that may be --
The initial interview when you went to work at S-4 I'm talking
about, that's not when the gun was at your head?
Lazar:
No.
Goodman:
When you went there, what was your understanding about what
you were going to be doing?
Lazar:
Some high-technology work, and I assumed they were talking
about some sort of gravitational propulsion system.
Goodman:
Were you excited about that?
Lazar:
Oh yeah, very much so, because there was some talk about
that because it was something that I was interested in,
something they KNEW I was interested in, and that was the
hint that I got.
Goodman:
And did it come to fruition? Did what you were told you were
going to do actually happen?
Lazar:
Yeah.
Goodman:
For what period of time?
[Goodman goes right into NEXT question.]
How long were you actually there before you let people know
what was going on up there? How many months or days or whatever?
Lazar:
Probably a couple of months.
Goodman:
Every time you went there you literally had to fly up, land at
Groom Lake, take a bus that was blacked out at the windows --
Lazar:
Right.
Goodman:
-- and no communication on the bus. What were you thinking as
a young man. You're a very young man; let's face it.
Lazar:
I'm not that young.
Goodman:
Well, you're a very young man; I think you are. Anyway, what
were you thinking? Were you just saying, well this just goes
with the territory and I'm just going to go along with this?
Lazar:
Oh yeah, you bet! I would have done that and much more just
to be involved with the project.
Goodman:
Ah! The excitement was just being there, being a part of
what was going on behind the scenes. The secret part about it?
Lazar:
Oh sure. I would have taken a LOT more crap than they had
dealt out.
Goodman:
Can you picture it? He's in his thirties, sitting on a bus,
and accepting the fact, Okay, I'm going to work this morning,
not talking to his compadres on the bus, is looking straight
ahead, blackened-out windows, not driving on asphalt, all dirt
roads. . . Didn't you ask yourself why they didn't do anything
about the dirt roads?
Lazar:
It was a good dirt road. A lot of the roads around there are
dirt, in fact almost all are.
Mark in Los Angeles:
Previously, you described the central column of the propulsion
device as being a wave guide. There was a disk toward the
bottom of this thing down near the anti-matter generator that
spins. What is that disk made of --
Lazar:
There's no spinning disk.
Mark:
What is the disk made of? Is it a capacitor?
Lazar:
A disk? The wave guide extends down, and it widens out and
sits on the curved portion of the reactor. The bottom of the
reactor is a plate, but nothing rotates or moves; it's all
connected together.
Mark:
Is that plate a capacitor?
Lazar:
No.
Mark:
Well, what is it made of?
Lazar:
Metal. That's the only way I can describe it; I don't know
what kind; it's [electric-] --
Mark:
Did anyone determine the kind of metal it was?
Lazar:
Not to my knowledge.
Mark:
I understand that part of the propulsion system involves a
very large capacitor -- which is usually the entire lower
surface of the disk -- that can make use of something along the
lines of the [Bifield] Brown Effect. Do you know what
the components of the dielectric material in that capacitor
are?
Lazar:
Well, if the bottom of the disk is one plate of the
capacitor, then the dielectric material would be the air --
if you're going to look at the earth as another plate of
the capacitor. But as far as the capacitor being integral
to the actual craft itself, no, I found no evidence of
that.
Mark:
I understand there's an antenna section in this device; what
is the resonant frequency that that operates at?
Lazar:
The resonant frequency of the gravity wave I do know, but
I don't know it off hand; I just can't remember it.
Mark:
Can you give me a ballpark, like 2,000 kilohertz?
Lazar:
I really don't remember. It's a really odd frequency.
Mark:
Is it measured in kilohertz or gigahertz or megahertz?
Lazar:
I really don't remember.
Mark:
When you first started to go public and were meeting with
people at John Lear's house, I understand that there were
a number of witnesses at those first meetings. One of them
claims that you did say that you had seen an extraterrestrial
while working inside one of those saucers, trying to back-
engineer the propulsion system, and that you had been
looking out through a doorway or through a porthole in the
side of the device and that you had actually seen an
extraterrestrial walking around on the outside of one of
those devices.
Lazar:
Devices meaning disks?
Mark:
Yes.
Lazar:
No.
Mark:
So you're saying you've never seen an extraterrestrial at
S-4.
Lazar:
I really don't want to get into that.
Mark:
The reason I ask is because someone else is claiming that
you have.
Lazar:
Well, stated the way you did, no I didn't. And I never did
look and see an extraterrestrial. As the story goes, and
the reason I never bring it up, is because I thought I saw
something once -- walking at a glance -- and that's all there
is to it. And I won't stand on that fact because it was
just a fleeting glimpse; when I came back, whatever was
there was gone; it could have been a million things.
Mark:
I have a contact that claims that you were responsible
for determining that Element 115 was not in fact necessary
to operate an anti-gravity propulsion device in the earth's
magnetic field. Is that true?
Lazar:
No, it's the exact opposite.
Caller:
Why are you going public? There's obviously a lot of other
staff on the project that senses a great degree of loyalty.
Lazar:
The straw that broke the camel's back was, after I left
the program I became concerned about what happens now. I
made a routine request for my birth certificate, which I
needed just for I.D. purposes, and I was told that it
doesn't exist, I wasn't even born at that hospital. I sat
on that for about a week and just wondered, and then I
began to inquire at previous jobs and also at other schools,
and that information was also gone. And I got the idea that
soon someone was going to disappear, so that's when I contacted
the TV station and essentially let everything out.
Caller:
But you left the program under very amicable circumstances?
Lazar:
No, that's a long, involved story that I really don't want
to get into.
Caller:
Are you afraid of any repercussions from the govenment?
Lazar:
Oh yeah, I was really concerned at one time.
Caller:
Less so now?
Lazar:
Yeah, less so now, but you still keep in the back of your
mind . . .
Caller:
If anything would happen to you now, that would cause such an
uproar in itself, the last thing they would do would be to go
anywhere near you.
Lazar:
Exactly. As someone said on the media somewhere, if there're
following me now, it's to make sure nothing happens to me.
Caller:
Did you witness any working models of the vehicle that were
operational?
Lazar:
I only saw one operate. I saw one at close range while I
was at the area and then at extreme distance -- about 15
miles, when I brought some friends up to look at it.
Caller:
Using the technology that's being used, the craft are very
agile, aren't they?
Lazar:
Oh yes, very, in one specific mode of travel.
Caller:
In one direction at a time?
Lazar:
No. There's two modes of travel. There's a low-speed mode
and a high-speed mode. I don't remember what they called them;
they had a specific name for them.
Caller:
What was the size of the staff working on the project?
Lazar:
22 people that I knew of, in the area that I worked in. How
extensive the rest of the facility was, I don't know.
Caller:
I understand you were frustrated at the size of the staff.
You thought it should have been larger?
Lazar:
Oh yeah! Much!
Caller:
More could have been learned about the program more
quickly?
Lazar:
Sure! I mean, 22 people, c'mon!
Caller:
Do you think we understand enough about the alien propulsion
technology to build our own vehicles, using this technology --
or are we even close? Do we know what's going on?
Lazar:
Yeah, we know what's going on, but the problem is substituting
earthly materials, and there's no easy way getting around that.
Caller:
How is Element 115 involved in the construction of the vehicles?
Lazar:
Everything seems to come down to 115. It's a super-heavy
element. It seems that as you get into the heavier elements --
and I'm sure this property extends into as-yet-undiscovered
elements in excess of atomic number 115 -- that the ATOMIC
gravity wave inside the atoms holding things together begins
to extend outside of the atomic structure itself, and it's
this wave that can be tapped off in quantity -- small quantity,
actually. This wave can be amplified, contained, and used
for a useful purpose.
Goodman:
Are your radiation detectors for nuclear power plants?
Lazar:
Not nuclear power plants; weapon . . .where they use
plutonium.
Goodman:
Like the latest flight above us now?
Lazar:
The Galileo?
Goodman:
Yeah.
Lazar:
Yeah.
Goodman:
Are you involved with that, Mr. Lazar?
Lazar:
Not directly. Someone may have used our probes to
detect --
Number 37:
Are they flying these vehicles within our city areas at any
time?
Lazar:
I really don't know. I was only witness to a couple tests.
I don't know how far they go. I think they're very careful
with them. I personally don't think they're whipping them
around the solar system because I don't know how profficient
they are at operating them.
Number 37:
Do you read any UFO literature in book form?
Lazar:
Nothing in book form. I occasionally get handed little tidbits
here and there and glance at them, but no, I don't delve
into reading.
Number 37:
You mentioned some stuff on the Billy Meiers case. Have
you read any of that information because you had mentioned
that you had seen some pictures?
Lazar:
Yeah, I looked at the, what caught my eye was certainly
the -- whatever that book's called -- Contact From the Plaeides
or something -- but it's essentially a picture book; there's
really no text in it. One of the craft in there looks strikingly
similar to the one I call the Sport Model.
Number 37:
What did you think of that similarity? Did that puzzle you?
Lazar:
Yeah, because originally I had kind of discounted the Billy
Meiers stuff, but that craft looks AMAZINGLY like the one that
I worked on. And another thing, somewhere in that book they
had a picture of a grassy field with three round indents in
the ground. Now that would coincide with the three gravity
amplifiers in the bottom of the craft and the imprint that
they do make, so that kind of makes me believe that that
really did occur.
Number 37:
You said you didn't necessarily share the same views of
Bill Cooper and John Lear as far as the big picture
was concerned?
Lazar:
I'm not exactly sure what each individual story is.
John Lear has a specific story; Bill Cooper has a specific
story. I do agree with both of them in the fact that,
yeah, there's alien craft here and so on and so forth.
John Lear thinks there're here to use us for food. I
don't exactly remember Bill Cooper's story. But the little
intricate parts here and there -- I just haven't seen any
evidence MYSELF of it. I don't know what these gentlemen
have found out on their own.
Caller 37:
From everything you know about it, do you believe there is
a possibility there are benevolent creatures in the universe?
Lazar:
Oh sure.
Goodman:
How would you describe this picture?
Lazar:
It's an interesting picture. It looks like a formation of
four and a formation of two flying saucers.
Goodman:
That picture came in a box delivered to the Vagabond Inn.
No name, no nothing. Just a note:
"This picture was taken from the 29-1/2-mile marker on the
day that I had the best time of my life, thanks to you,
Billy Goodman Happening."
That's all.
Lazar:
There's even a distortion in the cloud behind a couple of
them; that's really interesting.
Goodman:
That is right up there where people have gone. Bob mentioned
the same thing that I said when I saw that: "Boy, that's
a DAYTIME shot."
Look at the smile on Bob Lazar's face!
Lazar:
It would be interesting to magnify it to some degree.
Very interesting. They're glowing the color that the
crafts glow.
Goodman:
I don't know who you are out there, but I thank you very,
very, very much, because that is absolute, positive proof
that they are up there in the sky having a good time.
Do you think that they're flown by alien beings, or are
WE -- the military -- doing it?
Lazar:
I think that the ones that we're testing . . . the one
that I was involved in I think is being flown by the
military. Whatever else is going on I don't know.
Was that picture taken over Area 51?
Goodman:
That's right. And it looks like it. Recognize the peak?
Lazar:
Yeah. Of course, that's a daytime photograph. And I was
told that all the testing was done at night. And, I mean,
that's interesting.
Goodman:
You described, when you went inside one of these little
puppies, that there were very, very small seats, almost like
a kindergarten type.
Lazar:
Right. Exactly.
Goodman:
So we have to have some small guys doing it -- jockeys
or something?
Lazar:
No,no. You could squeeze into it.
Paul:
Do these craft appear to be shuttle craft, not the main
craft?
Lazar:
I don't know how you'd differentiate between the two?
Paul:
In most instances, people speak of them joining up with
another craft and then going out of the atmosphere. Could
the models you've seen be classed as shuttle craft in
that respect?
Lazar:
I really don't know.
Paul:
They wouldn't carry a big fleet of people?
Lazar:
No, definitely not. They are small, I'm guessing right in
the mid-30-, 40-foot range, somewhere in there. And as far
as carrying a lot of cargo or beings or whatever, no, there's
not a whole lot of room there. So possibly there is a larger
craft that they join with, but I didn't see any.
Paul:
Are there more engines than there are craft at S-4?
Lazar:
That's a good question. There's nine craft. I really don't
know.
Paul:
It would be something to explain how in the hell we got more
engines than we do craft. There's got to be some kind of an
agreement or somebody helping us.
Lazar:
Right. There's certainly more fuel than there needs to be.
Paul:
Since they have released you and taken away your scientific
livelihood, I hope you go on the national circuit, 60 Minutes,
the Carson show, everything you can get on, and milk it for
every dime you can get.
Lazar:
[laughs]
Paul:
You have a right to do that since they interrupted your career.
But the important thing is to get this stuff into the hands of
the scientific community, that can do some good with it.
They've been toying with it for years and nothing's come out of
it. We can't get anywhere. We've got to get it out of the
hands of these power-mongers.
Lazar:
I agree one hundred percent.
Paul:
I think that's why you took people up there in the first
place. You were tired of their games.
Wesley Crumb, Charleston, Illinois:
It's a great privilege to get a chance to speak with you.
I greatly admire your courage in coming forward. I saw a
copy of the KLAS program you did. When I first heard about
you I ran up about a $300 phone bill calling New York and
Chicago, and everywhere. I got a rejection today from the
Donahue show that they don't want to do a program about you.
Did you go inside all nine spacecraft?
Lazar:
No, no, just one.
Crumb:
When you were inside the craft, did you see any indication
that either through markings on the controls or otherwise
that these ships were from a different place? Was there
any writing on any controls or anything?
Lazar:
No, not on controls and things like that. But I did see
some evidence of writing.
Crumb:
When you saw the slight demonstration that was performed for
you, were you the only person that was there that saw this
craft operate?
Lazar:
No, there were several people. I was standing right next to
the person who was in radio contact with the craft.
Crumb:
How long did this demonstration last?
Lazar:
It was a short duration. It lifted off the ground, slid
over to the left, then back to the right, and set back
down. It was a very short duration.
Crumb:
But you never saw who was at the controls?
Lazar:
No, because when I was brought in, the craft was in the
hangar. When I came out, it was already out of the hangar
and sitting on -- well, sitting out away from the hangar
some distance. So I don't know how it was brought out, who
brought it out, who got in it. I can only guess.
Crumb:
Is the entire thing underground -- all nine different
hangars?
Lazar:
No, it's not underground; it's just butt up against the
side of a little mountain, a little hill kind of, but it's
kind of inside the mountain.
Crumb:
Do you feel that the billions of dollars that are being
spent on the space program by the administration is a waste
of money, as we already have these ships in our posssession?
Lazar:
No, because look at all the technology that we did get out
of the space program.
Crumb:
Was it ever disclosed to you that these craft were on loan
to us. Is there a chance of them being repossessed at any
time?
Lazar:
No, none of that was ever disclosed to me -- anything about
the origin.
Crumb:
I heard a rumor earlier this evening that your van was shot
at recently. Is there any truth to that?
Lazar:
I don't have a van. I was shot at in my car.
Crumb:
It got passed on to me from the Video Clearinghouse in
Yucaipa, and we've been keeping pretty close touch ever
since this news broke.
I did get a call yesterday from the National Enquirer. They
might follow up and try and do something for you, Bob.
The Enquirer is not exactly the best way you want to go,
but at least it does have some national exposure.
Burt in Burbank:
You said there's more fuel than necessary at the Test
Site?
Lazar:
Yeah. I don't know exactly where it is, but there's
500 pounds.
Burt:
500 pounds of Element 115?
Lazar:
Yeah, and it takes 223 grams per craft, so there's
definitely an abundance of fuel out there.
Burt:
Could you quickly describe the underside of these
ships?
Lazar:
No, because I only saw from a SIDE view of only
one craft. The other ones were always sitting on the
ground; I never saw it. But the underside is
essentially flat. Now, I never got directly under it
to look. There might be some features down there, but
I really don't know.
Burt:
The reason I ask is because you were talking about the
three distortions that can come down from the gravity
engines to distort the graph.
Are you aware of any time distortion within the saucer
itself while they are running?
Lazar:
Yeah, there has to be.
Burt:
What about SIZE distortion within the ship?
I've heard reports that people who have been in
these that the inside seems much larger than the
outside would indicate.
Lazar:
I have heard that too, but I haven't really seen
any evidence of that.
Burt:
You were talking about the low- and high-speed modes
and the control factors in there. Can you describe
those modes and what the ship looks like each time
it is going through those modes?
Lazar:
The low-speed mode -- and I REALLY wish I could remember
what they call these, but I can't, as I can't remember
the frequency of the wave --
The low-speed mode: The craft is very vulnerable; it bobs
around. And it's sitting on a weak gravitational field,
sitting on three gravity waves. And it just bounces
around. And it can focus the waves behind it and keep
falling forward and hobble around at low speed.
The second mode: They increase the amplitude of the
field, and the craft begins to lift, and it performs a
ROLL maneuver: it begins to turn, roll, begins to turn
over. As it begins to leave the earth's gravitational
field, they point the bottom of the craft at the
DESTINATION. This is the second mode of travel, where
they converge the three gravity amplifiers -- FOCUS
them -- on a point that they want to go to. Then they
bring them up to full power, and this is where the
tremendous time-space distortion takes place, and that
whips them right to that point.
Burt:
Did you actually bench-test a unit away from the
craft itself?
Lazar:
The reactor, yeah.
Burt:
About how large is this, and could you describe it?
Lazar:
The device itself is probably a plate about 18 inches
square; I said diameter before but it is square. There's
a half-sphere on top where the gravity wave is tapped off
of, but that's about the size of it.
Amy:
Are there subjects you won't talk about regarding what
was going on at Groom Lake at the project?
Lazar:
No, I don't think so.
Amy:
Do you have future plans for more publicity?
Lazar:
There are several networks that are interested.
Amy:
60 Minutes?
Lazar:
That's been mentioned, but I haven't heard anything
officially.
Amy:
Would you do it?
Lazar:
Yeah, I'd do a major network thing, sure.
Amy:
Are you familiar with the movie Hangar 18?
Lazar:
Yeah, I think I saw that when it first came out.
Amy:
Do you remember any parallels to what you know now?
Lazar:
I don't remember enough about the movie.
Amy:
The KLAS-TV program showed a Los Alamos newspaper
article about you during the time that you were
at Los Alamos. What paper was that? When was it
written?
Lazar:
The Monitor, July 1982, or something like that.
I think I still have a copy at home.
Amy:
Did the alien craft create harmful radioactivity
in the area?
Lazar:
No.
Amy:
The woman talked about on the show a few days ago --
the child and the two women [Cash/Landrum case?] -- and
they now have cancer. How did that occur?
Lazar:
I've heard of that before, and that sounds like a
really poor attempt at us producing a craft -- a
nuclear-powered craft, really dirty, spewing nuclear
material all over the place. It sounds something
that we would make. It really rings human.
Amy:
Do the aliens appear to be the same physical makeup?
From your research on the craft itself, can you tell
if they are similar to us -- by the way it was
designed?
Lazar:
Certainly smaller.
Amy:
But there's nothing other than that?
Lazar:
Not from the crafts. I read some material pertaining
to what they call the typical grey. I believe
them to be that.
Goodman:
It was interesting when you asked for your birth
certificate, and you could not locate it. And
they told you that literally you did not exist?
They TOLD you this in so many words?
Lazar:
They said we just have no records here.
Goodman:
And YOU felt that you didn't exist?
Lazar:
I felt that that's what they were trying to
make happen.
Goodman:
Are you familiar with that type of thing
being done?
Lazar:
No, I never heard of it before. I guess
other people have.
Goodman:
Did you ever get your birth certificate?
Lazar:
Nope.
Goodman:
What about diplomas and things of that nature?
Was there any record of any colleges you have
attended?
Lazar:
George Knapp tracked down one, and they still
had a record there.
Goodman:
All the rest are gone?
Lazar:
Yeah.
Goodman:
Have you called the colleges yourself and asked
for copies?
Lazar:
Yeah. Yeah. Just like I went and called Los
Alamos, too, and they said, no, you never worked
here, and you know, I've been there for years. You
can present them with the information, look, here's
my name in the [Los Alamos] phone book, here are the
people that I've worked with, here is the guy that
I worked for, this is the project I worked on, and
all they say is no. I mean it's ridiculous.
Goodman:
And when you're talking to these people, I'm sure
there are some that probably are just working there;
they don't know any different. They are just checking
the records and saying we don't have anything.
Lazar:
Right. You can hear them when you call up. They
are checking on the computer. They will type in
your name and it won't come up. So that's
probably all they do know.
Goodman:
People should realize this -- nowadays especially --
you could be pulled out -- all of us could -- and
anything we've ever done. If someone pulls your
name out of a computer where you've worked before
or you've had some past, you don't exist because
the new person or a personnel director going in and
checking -- you're not there. You have no record
of that individual.
Lazar:
Right. It depends on the level that you look into
it, too. Like I said, George Knapp went out to
Los Alamos, and that's where he got the telephone
directory and spoke to someone I worked with out
there, and so on.
Goodman:
This mode of travel involved in moving these
UFOs around: Can you see that being a mode of
travel for us in the future. You said it only
took grams of fuel. That sounds pretty good
to me as far as being efficient. Do you think that
it's possible that we could be traveling like that
in the future?
Lazar:
Well, obviously, THEY do, so I imagine it's possible
in the future.
Goodman:
I'm talking about our automobiles. And do you have to
be off the ground in order to travel like this?
Lazar:
Yeah, I think you do. It's not a very good mode of
slow-speed travel.
----------Continued in Lazar:Goodman 2 ----------------------------
--
-* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order"
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