Vector Info for paintball
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From: ekimmina@pms709.pms.ford.com (Eric Kimminau)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Vector Info
Date: 9 Nov 1993 19:53:13 GMT
Organization: Paintball Players R Us
Lines: 197
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <2bosf9INN9hh@ope001.iao.ford.com>
References: <2blrup$m3d@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pms709.pms.ford.com
> Well I tried this before and got no responses....either I messed up and
> the message didn't get out or no-one knew anything....
> I was wondering if anyone who has experience with the Vector could give
> me a run-down on its pro's and cons along with and info that has
> come out
> about the mod called the Thruster.....Thanx in advance
Ive put about 30K rounds now through my Vector. Here was my initial
run down:
Ill cover good and bad points:
Good Points:
1) Shoots Gas or Liquid. More consistent velocity with Liquid (siphon
tanks) more shots out of straight gas. Also, shooting gas you get MUCH
a smaller CO2 expulsion cloud from the end of the barel in heavy
firing. Important to snipers. More later.
2) Range, Range, Range!!! Incredible. I made a single ball, hill to
hill shot yesterday at 65 yards. Only gun that shoots farther or
straighter is a worked 'Cocker with a J&J rifled barrel. I talked to
J&J this last weekend and for $75.00 they will make a Vector take
interchangeable barrels, make the original barrel interchangeable and
include a J&J brass inside (4-rail) rifled barrel. Im definately gonna
have to try this out. 75-80yd shots may be possible (EGHADS!)
3) Unload your 200 round hopper in under a minute! Very fast firing
rate. 1/16" of an inch trigger pull. Only thing thats shoots faster
than me is an Automag with the auto-response double trigger. This
includes worked 'Cockers and every thing else.
4) The gun gets very frosty because of the amount of CO2 it uses, but
even cold it still fires. Ive dumped 600 rds through it at high firing
rates on a high humidity day and the gun still fires. No freeze ups!
5) It almost NEVER breaks a ball. Ive had it pinch several, but
flicking the reset switch to re-cock the gun allows you to then shoot
that same ball with no problems. I don't suggest you try this, but we
did it just to prove we could powered up the gun and stuck our finders
in the feeder tube blocking the bolt (I would suggest YOU use a bic
platic pen if you have a larger brain than we do).
On any other gun your finger would be broken into at least 2 pieces as
the bolt slammed forward into your finger. A vector gives you a slight
nudge and the bolt stops. Any further presses of the trigger act as
though the gun is jammed, but a 1/2 a second flick of the reset switch
up and back down resets the bolt. You may now remove your finger (or
whatever) and shoot the gun a will. Replace your finger with a ball
and it does the same thing. The only ball breaks I have had was
shooting bloated R.P. Shearer that was over a month old. 50% broke as
it left the barrel, but none broke IN the barrel. Those times I have
had a ball break, i just shoot 4 or 5 balls and the barrel is clean.
Bad Points:
1) Can you say GASHOG! I knew that you could. I now run 2 - 20oz
siphon tanks remote and I average about 1000-1200 shots before having
to re-fill both tanks. This also translates to 600 shots per tank (I
ran single tanks until 2 weeks ago). There is salvation coming though.
Within the next month Air Power will be releasing an auto adjusting
regulator that will fix problems 1 & 2 by doubling gas efficiency and
giving an external velocity adjustment with rock solid performance.
Set velocity once a season, so they claim.
2) Velocity adjustment is in the bottle valve area. You have to remove the
bottle to adjust velocity. THIS BITES! It took me 30 minutes to set
velocity the first time. I didnt have to change it the rest of the
day, but the first time almost made me take the gun back. Im REALLY
glad I didn't. Within the next month Air Power will solve this problem
with their auto regulator. They are still trying to decide if it will
be a warranty fix or if it will be a cost add on. I hope for the first
but Im expecting the latter at a cost of about $75-100.00.
3) The original version power tube is a piece of garbage. Every Vector
I have seen has broken the power tube. Mine just broke this weekend
after 18000 rounds. My friends broke after just over 1000. Where ever
you purchase your Vector, make sure they can get spare parts. Power
tube breakage is a free warranty repair/replacement. This should not
happen in any newer guns, since they are now installing a "stronger"
power tube.
4) Original trigger sear was breaking. Any gun after serial number 200
has the repaired trigger (mine is ser. #271). Ive had no problems with
mine. Again, this is a warranty repair/replacemnt.
5) One Vector had one 360degree section of his main spring break off.
This is like a wire twisted back and forth until it weakens and
breaks. The piece fell down into his trigger cavity which caused the
gun to no longer fire. It took about 5 minutes to open up the gun and
remove it. It now functions perfectly, and in fact the owner says the
trigger pull is even faster than before. The gun has had no other
problems since this happened. Is this a defective spring? Abnormal
wear? Who knows. It was a problem with a benefit after being fixed,
but I felt it should be included here.
6) My friends Vector had the 4way valve go bad on him. This happened
after he fell down 3 hills with it while it was ice cold and continued
playing with it after it was packed with dirt and weeds. (I know, what
a fool). Anyway, at the same time he broke his power tube and the
trigger switch. How much of this was defective materials and how much
was operator error is your guess. All of it was warranty
repair/replacement and it took 2 days for parts to get to us from Air
Power.
Personality:
If youve never played with or against a Vector, the first time is a
surprise. It has a VERY distinctive sound when fired, and has been
described as a "fart sound" when it starts getting low on CO2. I found
this rather amusing. Also the bloop/spook/blerp sounds of of some
pumps become more common as the gun gets lower and lower on CO2. Also,
when shooting with siphon tanks, you get a HUGE CO2 cloud out of the
barrel when firing at high rates. Several feet is normal. This cloud
is almost nil when shooting non-siphon tanks. Another bonus reason for
getting the new regulator when its released. The Vector also has one
other trait that GREATLY increases its performance. It will literally
suck a ball into the
chamber. If you fire it several times with your palm over the feeder
tube, you will immediately notice a vacuum created each time you fire
as the bolt is re-cocking.
Final Word:
The Vector is an awesome gun. It has several bad points, but for me it
has been the best gun Ive ever owned. It almost never breaks a ball (I
have not used my squeegee on my own gun except end of the day cleanup
for 6 weeks). It shoots as far or farther and as fast or faster than
every other gun on the market. Ask me again in about 2 months how I
feel about it when I get the new regulator.
The Near Next almost maybe FINALWORD:
Well, Ive gotten a Thruster. It is a Black cylinder about 1" in
diameter and about 5" long. Originally it came on the end of a
rubberized high pressure remote line with the only way of using it was
with a single tank. I couldnt live with that, I like using dual remote
20oz tanks, so I created a way to mount it physically on the back of
the Vector, and I screw the quick disconnect for my remote into it. On
the other end of the Thruster is a 1.25" screw on cap which hides a
threaded 1/4" hex velocity adjustment bolt (Tournament cap for those
interested).
Velocity adjustment is a BREEZE! It works. My experience using the
Vector with the Thruster is very limited. Ive used it 2 full days now.
Both days were under 40 degrees and the first weekend was in a huge
open air building at 30-35 degrees. Not the best weather for CO/2. I
had zero gun problems, other than velocity fluctuation (more in a sec)
and my tanks froze solid. But then, so did every one elses.
When you install the thruster, you have to remove the original
velocity adjustment screw, the power tube spring and a small piece
that goes under the spring to keep it centered. You then insert a
1.5" long, 5/16" diameter, 17lb+ return spring. ALL VELOCITY
ADJUSTMENTS are performed with the Thruster. I did not know this the
first weekend I used the Thruster. My velocity was +-60 fps. This last
weekend, with the proper modifications, velocity was +-10fps the
entire day. Ive never been able to say that for any gun on a 35-40
degree day.
Efficiency improvements have been negligible, but considering the
temperatures, my experience cannot be conmsidered an accurate sample.
I will tell you this though. In heavy fire, in high humidity, frost
would form all over the barrel, just in front of the bolt. This hasn't
happened yet since installing the Thruster. I did experience a bit of
the 4-way valve burping, but after discussions with AirPower, I
streched the spring under the power tube and these have basically been
eliminated.
Cost is surely going to be well over $100.00. Probably in the
$150-160.00 range. Its intent from the outset was to accomplish 4
things:
1) Eliminate Gun freezing
2) Give an easily accesible, easily adjustable, velocity adjustment.
3) Give a stable, solid velocity setting (+-10fps)
4) Improve CO/2 efficiency.
All but #4 has been accomplished, in my testing, and that may be
improved in warmer conditions. Ill fill you in on more after a few
more outings.
Oh yeah. I made an 85+ yard shot 3 weekends ago playing indoors. took
10-12 shots to get my range, and then when the player stepped out from
behing a partition to return fire. BOOM! One ball in the center of the
chest!
--
Eric Kimminau Workstation Systems Department
313-322-3431 Product & Manufacturing Systems
ekimmina@pms709.pms.ford.com Ford Motor Co.
Planning and Implementation "Not an official Ford Spokesperson"
From: ekimmina@pms709.pms.ford.com (Eric Kimminau)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Vector Info
Date: 9 Nov 1993 19:53:13 GMT
Organization: Paintball Players R Us
Lines: 197
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <2bosf9INN9hh@ope001.iao.ford.com>
References: <2blrup$m3d@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pms709.pms.ford.com
> Well I tried this before and got no responses....either I messed up and
> the message didn't get out or no-one knew anything....
> I was wondering if anyone who has experience with the Vector could give
> me a run-down on its pro's and cons along with and info that has
> come out
> about the mod called the Thruster.....Thanx in advance
Ive put about 30K rounds now through my Vector. Here was my initial
run down:
Ill cover good and bad points:
Good Points:
1) Shoots Gas or Liquid. More consistent velocity with Liquid (siphon
tanks) more shots out of straight gas. Also, shooting gas you get MUCH
a smaller CO2 expulsion cloud from the end of the barel in heavy
firing. Important to snipers. More later.
2) Range, Range, Range!!! Incredible. I made a single ball, hill to
hill shot yesterday at 65 yards. Only gun that shoots farther or
straighter is a worked 'Cocker with a J&J rifled barrel. I talked to
J&J this last weekend and for $75.00 they will make a Vector take
interchangeable barrels, make the original barrel interchangeable and
include a J&J brass inside (4-rail) rifled barrel. Im definately gonna
have to try this out. 75-80yd shots may be possible (EGHADS!)
3) Unload your 200 round hopper in under a minute! Very fast firing
rate. 1/16" of an inch trigger pull. Only thing thats shoots faster
than me is an Automag with the auto-response double trigger. This
includes worked 'Cockers and every thing else.
4) The gun gets very frosty because of the amount of CO2 it uses, but
even cold it still fires. Ive dumped 600 rds through it at high firing
rates on a high humidity day and the gun still fires. No freeze ups!
5) It almost NEVER breaks a ball. Ive had it pinch several, but
flicking the reset switch to re-cock the gun allows you to then shoot
that same ball with no problems. I don't suggest you try this, but we
did it just to prove we could powered up the gun and stuck our finders
in the feeder tube blocking the bolt (I would suggest YOU use a bic
platic pen if you have a larger brain than we do).
On any other gun your finger would be broken into at least 2 pieces as
the bolt slammed forward into your finger. A vector gives you a slight
nudge and the bolt stops. Any further presses of the trigger act as
though the gun is jammed, but a 1/2 a second flick of the reset switch
up and back down resets the bolt. You may now remove your finger (or
whatever) and shoot the gun a will. Replace your finger with a ball
and it does the same thing. The only ball breaks I have had was
shooting bloated R.P. Shearer that was over a month old. 50% broke as
it left the barrel, but none broke IN the barrel. Those times I have
had a ball break, i just shoot 4 or 5 balls and the barrel is clean.
Bad Points:
1) Can you say GASHOG! I knew that you could. I now run 2 - 20oz
siphon tanks remote and I average about 1000-1200 shots before having
to re-fill both tanks. This also translates to 600 shots per tank (I
ran single tanks until 2 weeks ago). There is salvation coming though.
Within the next month Air Power will be releasing an auto adjusting
regulator that will fix problems 1 & 2 by doubling gas efficiency and
giving an external velocity adjustment with rock solid performance.
Set velocity once a season, so they claim.
2) Velocity adjustment is in the bottle valve area. You have to remove the
bottle to adjust velocity. THIS BITES! It took me 30 minutes to set
velocity the first time. I didnt have to change it the rest of the
day, but the first time almost made me take the gun back. Im REALLY
glad I didn't. Within the next month Air Power will solve this problem
with their auto regulator. They are still trying to decide if it will
be a warranty fix or if it will be a cost add on. I hope for the first
but Im expecting the latter at a cost of about $75-100.00.
3) The original version power tube is a piece of garbage. Every Vector
I have seen has broken the power tube. Mine just broke this weekend
after 18000 rounds. My friends broke after just over 1000. Where ever
you purchase your Vector, make sure they can get spare parts. Power
tube breakage is a free warranty repair/replacement. This should not
happen in any newer guns, since they are now installing a "stronger"
power tube.
4) Original trigger sear was breaking. Any gun after serial number 200
has the repaired trigger (mine is ser. #271). Ive had no problems with
mine. Again, this is a warranty repair/replacemnt.
5) One Vector had one 360degree section of his main spring break off.
This is like a wire twisted back and forth until it weakens and
breaks. The piece fell down into his trigger cavity which caused the
gun to no longer fire. It took about 5 minutes to open up the gun and
remove it. It now functions perfectly, and in fact the owner says the
trigger pull is even faster than before. The gun has had no other
problems since this happened. Is this a defective spring? Abnormal
wear? Who knows. It was a problem with a benefit after being fixed,
but I felt it should be included here.
6) My friends Vector had the 4way valve go bad on him. This happened
after he fell down 3 hills with it while it was ice cold and continued
playing with it after it was packed with dirt and weeds. (I know, what
a fool). Anyway, at the same time he broke his power tube and the
trigger switch. How much of this was defective materials and how much
was operator error is your guess. All of it was warranty
repair/replacement and it took 2 days for parts to get to us from Air
Power.
Personality:
If youve never played with or against a Vector, the first time is a
surprise. It has a VERY distinctive sound when fired, and has been
described as a "fart sound" when it starts getting low on CO2. I found
this rather amusing. Also the bloop/spook/blerp sounds of of some
pumps become more common as the gun gets lower and lower on CO2. Also,
when shooting with siphon tanks, you get a HUGE CO2 cloud out of the
barrel when firing at high rates. Several feet is normal. This cloud
is almost nil when shooting non-siphon tanks. Another bonus reason for
getting the new regulator when its released. The Vector also has one
other trait that GREATLY increases its performance. It will literally
suck a ball into the
chamber. If you fire it several times with your palm over the feeder
tube, you will immediately notice a vacuum created each time you fire
as the bolt is re-cocking.
Final Word:
The Vector is an awesome gun. It has several bad points, but for me it
has been the best gun Ive ever owned. It almost never breaks a ball (I
have not used my squeegee on my own gun except end of the day cleanup
for 6 weeks). It shoots as far or farther and as fast or faster than
every other gun on the market. Ask me again in about 2 months how I
feel about it when I get the new regulator.
The Near Next almost maybe FINALWORD:
Well, Ive gotten a Thruster. It is a Black cylinder about 1" in
diameter and about 5" long. Originally it came on the end of a
rubberized high pressure remote line with the only way of using it was
with a single tank. I couldnt live with that, I like using dual remote
20oz tanks, so I created a way to mount it physically on the back of
the Vector, and I screw the quick disconnect for my remote into it. On
the other end of the Thruster is a 1.25" screw on cap which hides a
threaded 1/4" hex velocity adjustment bolt (Tournament cap for those
interested).
Velocity adjustment is a BREEZE! It works. My experience using the
Vector with the Thruster is very limited. Ive used it 2 full days now.
Both days were under 40 degrees and the first weekend was in a huge
open air building at 30-35 degrees. Not the best weather for CO/2. I
had zero gun problems, other than velocity fluctuation (more in a sec)
and my tanks froze solid. But then, so did every one elses.
When you install the thruster, you have to remove the original
velocity adjustment screw, the power tube spring and a small piece
that goes under the spring to keep it centered. You then insert a
1.5" long, 5/16" diameter, 17lb+ return spring. ALL VELOCITY
ADJUSTMENTS are performed with the Thruster. I did not know this the
first weekend I used the Thruster. My velocity was +-60 fps. This last
weekend, with the proper modifications, velocity was +-10fps the
entire day. Ive never been able to say that for any gun on a 35-40
degree day.
Efficiency improvements have been negligible, but considering the
temperatures, my experience cannot be conmsidered an accurate sample.
I will tell you this though. In heavy fire, in high humidity, frost
would form all over the barrel, just in front of the bolt. This hasn't
happened yet since installing the Thruster. I did experience a bit of
the 4-way valve burping, but after discussions with AirPower, I
streched the spring under the power tube and these have basically been
eliminated.
Cost is surely going to be well over $100.00. Probably in the
$150-160.00 range. Its intent from the outset was to accomplish 4
things:
1) Eliminate Gun freezing
2) Give an easily accesible, easily adjustable, velocity adjustment.
3) Give a stable, solid velocity setting (+-10fps)
4) Improve CO/2 efficiency.
All but #4 has been accomplished, in my testing, and that may be
improved in warmer conditions. Ill fill you in on more after a few
more outings.
Oh yeah. I made an 85+ yard shot 3 weekends ago playing indoors. took
10-12 shots to get my range, and then when the player stepped out from
behing a partition to return fire. BOOM! One ball in the center of the
chest!
--
Eric Kimminau Workstation Systems Department
313-322-3431 Product & Manufacturing Systems
ekimmina@pms709.pms.ford.com Ford Motor Co.
Planning and Implementation "Not an official Ford Spokesperson"
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