REASONS
These messages were extracted from recent conversations in the CompuServe
SHAREWARE forum. They describe numerous reasons why shareware authors should
apply for membership in the Association of Shareware Professionals.
Some replies may have been deleted if they were deemed irrelevant to the main
thrust of the conversation. Other than that, no editing is performed on the
messages you see here. Most opinions are of a personal nature and they might
not reflect the official views of the Association of Shareware Professionals.
(However, some members in the ASP can and do speak in an official capacity.)
Uploaded by Rob Rosenberger, CompuServe SHAREWARE forum sysop, 27 Nov 89.
Appended Why Join Thread by George Abbott on 01 Jan 91.
=============================================
#: 66944 S9/Potential Authors
31-Oct-89 19:23:02
Sb: #Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: all
Hi! On behalf of the Association of Shareware Professionals (ASP), I'm
pleased to welcome you to this section. If you are thinking about
distributing a program as shareware, just starting out or contemplating
joining ASP, ask away as you wish. We have lots of members monitoring this
section and I'm sure you'll get useful advice.
Thanks for dropping by.
Come again soon.
Barry Simon
ASP President
#: 67005 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 17:13:56
Sb: #66944-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X)
Barryy, I just received a communication from Nelson Ford expessing interest in
including some of my "shareware" products in the PsL. Actually, I knew that
such "shareware" libraries existed, and that your association did too, but
I've really wondered what the advantages/benefits of becoming an ASP member
are. After reading all of the info contained on the PsL "Software Submission
Disk"(ette), I get this overwhelming feeling that in order for shareware to
have any real credibility, it should be authored by an ASP member. Although I
condsider my software to be credible/useful/non-trivial, I suppose that there
are advantages/benefits in becoming a member that don't really jump out and
grab me. What are they? What kind of research or survey has been conducted
of the ASP membership, showing conclusively that members fare better from
having joined? I beleive that I will be applying for membership within the
week if I am convinced. BTW, has anyone ever been rejected membership? I was
just a little bit amused at the psychology behind some of the application's
(cont'd)
#: 67007 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 17:38:37
Sb: #67005-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70 (X)
wording. (wow, what a challenge to have my software judged by a _committee_
to be "non-trivial!"). Anyway, I just wanted to get some kind of feel for
what's going on here. Thanks for your valuable time (do you ever rest? I see
your articles _everywhere_!). And, thanks for your valuable comments on, and
time spent looking at The Mail Machine this past August. We have spent
considerable time implementing new features and addressing every one of
comments/suggestions - beta for version 3.0 (major upgrade) is scheduled for
11/30; FCS 12/31. Also, we're being courted by a company w/ a bigger name and
more mktg power to develop a private label version. When beta is ready, I'll
ship you another copy (yet realizing your time constraints).
Neil W Taylor TaxWare PO Box 2014 Provo, UT 84601
#: 67010 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 17:55:11
Sb: #67005-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
As an ASP member, I can assure you there are definite advantages to being a
member of the Association. I've "done lunch" with Jim Button and, let me tell
you, I was all ears. I partied with Tom Smith about a month ago and he was
brimming with insights about the shareware industry.
The big boys are full of details about pitfalls they've discovered in
shareware. I know where to get disks duplicated quick & cheap; I know where
to buy labels; I know which disk vendors are unscrupulous; and I know which
magazines I should send my products to for a potential national review.
The ASP will host APCUG, the Association of PC User Groups, at COMDEX on
November 13 in a "meet the authors" session. Presidents, secretaries, and
newsletter editors from around the nation will be there to meet shareware
authors. The ASP has also sent out hundreds of press invitations. Think of
all the great publicity!
(I understand there will be six drawings during the event. Winners will
receive *more than two dozen* registered shareware products.)
The ASP has also been fighting to keep the word "shareware" itself in the
public domain. ASP has filed protests on three different continents to keep
people from taking it as a trademark word. You can understand the obvious
implications if you had to pay someone so you could advertise your products as
"shareware."
There are quite a few other things about ASP which make it worth joining.
(I like to tell Turbo Pascal programmers how I used to worship Neil Rubenking
until I joined!) Hope this gives you some information about the benefits of
ASP. "Membership has its privileges."
#: 67022 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 20:03:05
Sb: #67005-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
I'm VERY glad you asked. As of mid auguest we had about 160 author members;
I'd guess that we reject about 30 applicants reaching that number. Recently we
had a flurry and for whatever reason, there were 15 acceptances and 7
rejections. No idea if that is a fluctuation or not.
The non-triviality rule is not there to dump on any program but to eliminate
the applicant who writes a sorted directory lister and asks $20 for it - a
form of what we call what-the-heck-ware. Our rule of thumb is "could one of
us write it in a day". Rejection is only rarely for triviality ; it is most
often for a form of crippling or for an unprofessional package. We try to
work with applicants to explain our non-crippling policy and what would need
to be done to meet it or to help make the program professional (e.g. please
remove "if you use this program and don't pay, you will rot in hell").
ASP was founded to serve three purposes and there is a fourth one now; each
gives you a benefit; some more than others.
- to set standards for shareware authors and vendors
- to educate users and in particular deal with some of the misleading
advertising put out by some disk vendors
- to pool information and serve as resources for each other
- defacto, to "show the flag for shareware"
There are some number of users who have had bad experiences with shareware
connected most often with crippled programs or authors who don't respond to
their mail. ASP directly addresses these issues and users have come to look
for ASP membership as a kind of assurance of quality. One message on IBMAPP
earlier this week complained about experiences with authors not responding to
queries and end with "I've been stiffed like this before from shareware
authors. However, I _can_ safely recommend any product from an ASP author."
[More]
#: 67023 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 20:03:30
Sb: #67022-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X)
[Continued]
So one benefit is that by agreeing to our standards, you send a signal of
substantialness to your perspective customers.
We educate users with various files posted on BBS, discussions here and in our
vendor program which has gotten many vendors to change their "free programs"
tone. I was surprised to learn in dealing with some of these vendors that
they were often being thoughtless rather than 'cheating' and were anxious to
do things the right way. Of course, you get this benefit whether you join or
not but this is something that the organization does that you support by your
dues and decent software.
Wanna know where to get mailers, duplicate disks, get printer codes,.... These
issues are discussed in the private ASP sections and you get direct benefit of
the experiences of others.
Finally in the indirect category is that when a magazine gets confused a bout
shareware, ASP writes a reply; when APCUG (national coalition of user's
groups) wanted to meet shareware authors at Comdex they asked us to set
something up and we did. This has a direct component as members will have an
extra chance at exposure.
No survey has been taken to prove the benfit of membership. I'm not sure how
you'd measure that and frankly with limited resources, we've got better ways
to spend them.
I only write at this point for Personal Publishing and PC Mag and spend more
time on ASP, and my 'real' job than on computer journalism and I do find time
to work on my shareware program. As for time to rest, what's that <sigh>?
- Barry
#: 67032 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 21:22:04
Sb: #67005-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Paul Mayer (GRAB Plus) 70040,645
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
Neil; I guess I will jump in here again. Yes your submission will be gone
over for triviality as well as for professionalism, error trapping and your
support and such. The trivial rule is looked at from the stand point that
could one of the members whip the same thing together in an afternoon or a
day? Does the user interface allow for improper entries thus allowing the
computer to lock up and such. We have had some rejection. However I have found
that I worked harder trying to get these up to standards than on the others.
If there is a possibility that with some rewording and recoding an applicant
can come up to our standards I will assist as best I can. In the three words
that stand for ASP the most important is "Professionals" and without a
committee scrutinizing the applications the concept would never work. There
are other thing involved also such as the way the applicant does business. Is
he ethical? Does he give good support or does he just sit back and wait for
the money without answering letters and calls? This last thing has become a
touchy spot with me as Membership Coordinator. I feel if I try and contact an
applicant and cannot get through how can the customers?
Does the ASP work? <grin> Man has it ever for me! I have had so many
fantastic opportunities to pick the brains of the best it is unbelievable! Jut
the exposure I have had because of those three little letters behind my name
<ASP> in our Associate Member Shareware Disk Vendors. Yea, this is where the
turning point in my shareware business happened. - Paul
#: 67036 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 22:14:00
Sb: #67022-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: steve estvanik 76703,3046
To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X)
One question that comes up immediately -- is the review for ASP entry or is it
continuous? Is there a procedure EACH program must pass? or does the
acceptance initially grandfather subsequent products?
Also, are there any guidelines for shareware products that are ALSO sold as
retail products, directly?
steve
#: 67041 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 23:20:44
Sb: #67010-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Frank LaRosa (SLBBS) 73040,2557
To: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344 (X)
1. Who is Neil Rubenking? 2. Why did you worship him before you joined? 3. Why
do you no longer worship him? 4. Why is this of interest to Turbo Pascal
Programmers?
Just curious.
I've always wanted to start a company called "Oat". Then I could put the words
"Oat Brand" on everything I sold. People would line up for blocks to give me
their money.
#: 67042 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 23:27:42
Sb: #67007-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
Just a post script. You are known by the company you keep. You'll get
flagged in vendor catalogs as an ASP member and you'll get a listing in the
ASP catalog which appears in hundreds of BBSs.
- Barry
#: 67043 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 23:46:19
Sb: #67036-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: steve estvanik 76703,3046 (X)
The only REVIEW is at the time of acceptance but, except for non-triviality*,
all members agree to abide by the requriements past and future. (Requirements
can only be passed by 2/3 of those membership voting at a meeting announced by
mail). There is something of an honor system although violation do tend to
get reported and dealt with by the Ombudsman or the board. Usually, a
discussion with an author about a problem is quickly resolved. I can't recall
a single case where a member was removed although the bylaws give the board
that power. I can recall one case where an author woud have been removed but
he preferred to resign.
*Non-triviality is not a requirement in the sense that no crippling or support
it; rather, it is filter set up by the board to weed out unsubstantial
authors.
- Barry
#: 67044 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 01:29:22
Sb: #67036-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344
To: steve estvanik 76703,3046 (X)
As I understand it, Steve, your program(s) are reviewed once to determine
whether they meet the current membership requirements. ASP members agree to
police themselves to make sure they *continue* to meet all ASP standards for
the products they release as shareware.
There may be a few bad apples who won't police themselves. That's why the
ASP established an Ombudsman, so users can turn to a higher authority if a
member fails to live up to standards.
#: 67045 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 02:25:14
Sb: #67041-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344
To: Frank LaRosa (SLBBS) 73040,2557
1. You heathen! Everyone knows who Neil Rubenking is. <grin> Neil is a
Turbo Pascal wizard. He wrote a number of articles for Borland's "Turbo
Technix" magazine before it went under. You'll find his name splashed on all
sorts of Pascal tips & hints in the Languages column of PC Magazine; he also
edits the User-To-User column in that same journal.
2. I worshipped Neil because he knows so many undocumented things about Turbo
Pascal. Not to mention he knows most of the programming shortcuts you can
take without resorting to unstructured coding techniques. In the world of
Pascal, Neil ranks right up there with Kim Kokkonen and Jeff Duntemann.
3. I no longer worship him simply because I've talked turkey with him too
many times in the Association of Shareware Professionals. I finally figured
out he had to learn Turbo Pascal like the rest of us -- from the ground up.
(I got a message from him yesterday asking ME for advice about one of my own
pieces of OOP code.)
4. It's of interest to Turbo Pascal programmers because many of them read
Neil's articles. They'd love to shake his hand and tap into his brain. As an
ASP author, there have been one or two occasions when I simply write to
programmer X and say "hey, I'm an ASP guy just like you. Can you give me a
hint on such-and-such?" ASP authors take care of their own. You have to be
an ASP author to really appreciate that, I suppose...
name-droppin' Rob
#: 67052 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 08:50:35
Sb: #67023-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Jim Button (PC-File) 76004,1532
To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X)
It'll be a shame to see these brilliant replies scroll off after a while.
Perhaps replies like this one could be immortalized as a downloadable file
with a title like "reasons to join ASP."
-Jim
#: 67056 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 09:01:32
Sb: #67007-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Nelson Ford (My-Desk) 71355,470
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
Funny, I had just had a similar exchange with another non-member programmer
and so I have the following list of membership advantages at hand:
1. It is a way of letting users know that your programs meet ASP's support and
no-crippling requirements, which are two of the most common concerns of
shareware users.
2. The availability of the ASP's Ombudsman to resolve possible disputes serves
as further reassurance to users and thus helps promote registrations.
3. ASP membership helps assure users that the author of the program still can
be found, even if the address in the documentation is no longer valid.
4. ASP members share valuable information with each other on the ASP forum on
CIS.
5. ASP members have been able to pool their resources to promote their
products at major computer shows and to take legal action on behalf of all
members.
6. Virtually all of the major shareware distributors are now Associate Members
of ASP and promote ASP and its members in their publications. (The "licensing"
of shareware vendors in itself was another significant ASP project which
benefitted all shareware programmers and users.)
In the face of these advantages, it would take some pretty compelling reasons
for a programmer NOT to join, and I'm not aware of any such reasons, other
than not wanting to meets ASP's standards. That's why I said in the last PSL
NEWS that any author serious about marketing his programs as shareware should
be an ASP member.
#: 67059 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 10:21:45
Sb: #67005-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Gary Elfring (DOWNLOAD) 72417,3437
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
Neil, interesting to see you here.
I think there are two major reasons for joing the ASP. The first is
information. We have a group of members who have a great deal of experience in
marketing software as shareware. This group can offer you marketing adivice
that would take you years to figure out on your own. We can also supply
information on the technical aspect of things like where to get disks, how to
duplicate them, labels, where to print manual, and how to package software.
The second reason has to do with respect. The ASP is gaining momentum each
day. We already see a number of messages on BBSs with people who complain
about the porr quality of shareware or the lack of response from shareware
authors. But those same messages now add, EXCEPT FOR ASP SHAREWARE. When
people see a shareware product from an ASP author they know the product meets
a set of minimum standards, it is not crippled, the author will respond to
registrations, and there is a method for resolving registration conflicts
(Omnibudman).
#: 67066 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 11:43:48
Sb: #67045-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Neil J. Rubenking 72241,50
To: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344 (X)
Rob,
Can I send a copy of this message to my Mom? (blush)
-- Neil
#: 67096 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 17:28:18
Sb: #67066-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344
To: Neil J. Rubenking 72241,50
Gods don't have mothers. :-)
#: 67122 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 22:05:58
Sb: #67066-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: Neil J. Rubenking 72241,50
Huh - you wanna send a message that says "he was my hero but then I met him so
he isn't any more" to your mom <grin>.
- Barry
#: 67359 S9/Potential Authors
05-Nov-89 14:54:22
Sb: #67335-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: Steve Lee (ShrwrMktg) 73447,1252
Actually one of our miscellaneous standards reads:
"The program author will respond to people who send registration payments, as
promised in the program's documentation. At a minimum, the author will
acknowledge receipt of all payments."
Not responding for 6 months violates that policy. We might not learn of the
problem during the initial screening but if we did, you can be sure we'd
reject the author without a firm promise tro shape up. If the OMB got
complaints about this, we'd take action.
- Barry
#: 104857 S9/Potential Authors
27-Dec-90 20:25:39
Sb: #Why join?
Fm: Bob Burns (Public Brand) 73667,324
To: All
Let me pass along to you a message left on an echomail system by a staff
member representing a major shareware tele-communications package:
"We are not members of the ASP. We don't see it as providing any benefits to
us whatsoever."
These folks produce an excellent program that is not crippled, have a loyal
following of satisfied users (including me), have gotten glowing reviews by
respected writers, and are probably getting a ton of registrations.
What's the answer guys? Why _should_ they join the ASP?
* Replies: 104860, 104867, 104877, 104892
#: 104860 S9/Potential Authors
27-Dec-90 21:12:08
Sb: #104857-Why join?
Fm: Rosemary West KIDPIX 72301,435
To: Bob Burns (Public Brand) 73667,324
Maybe they don't need to join. If they are truly getting everything they want
from the shareware system, and if they don't feel that they have anything to
contribute to others, then membership in an organization like this may have no
purpose for them. That doesn't negate the benefits it has for others.
* Reply: 105008
#: 105008 S9/Potential Authors
30-Dec-90 10:22:47
Sb: #104860-Why join?
Fm: Tom Rawson [4DOS] 75300,210
To: Rosemary West KIDPIX 72301,435
So what's KIDPIX?
... Tom
* Reply: 105066
#: 105066 S9/Potential Authors
30-Dec-90 23:14:46
Sb: #105008-Why join?
Fm: Rosemary West KIDPIX 72301,435
To: Tom Rawson [4DOS] 75300,210
Children's drawings converted to Wallpaper for Windows 3.0 and PCX format.
#: 104867 S9/Potential Authors
28-Dec-90 00:02:55
Sb: #104857-Why join?
Fm: STEVE HUDGIK (Share Book 71450,254
To: Bob Burns (Public Brand) 73667,324
I got that same answer from a lot of the non-ASP shareware publishers I
interviewed. I feel the answer is:
Although you do not feel you need the educational benefits of the ASP, since
you already are successful, you are receiving a benefit - even though you are
not a member. All shareware publishers benefit from the increased recognition
of shareware as a viable marketing method. All shareware authors benefit from
the increased recognition of shareware publishers as professionals. All
shareware publishers benefit from the ASP's legal efforts to protect the
shareware concept and name. All shareware publishers benefit from the ASP's
marketing efforts to make users (and the media) aware of what shareware is and
how it works.
Even though all shareware publishers receive these benefits whether or not
they are members, the ASP can only continue to provide them if it has the
support of authors. Even if they do not wish to actively participate I feel
all authors should join the ASP at least in recognition that they are
benefiting from the existence of the ASP.
SHAREWARE forum. They describe numerous reasons why shareware authors should
apply for membership in the Association of Shareware Professionals.
Some replies may have been deleted if they were deemed irrelevant to the main
thrust of the conversation. Other than that, no editing is performed on the
messages you see here. Most opinions are of a personal nature and they might
not reflect the official views of the Association of Shareware Professionals.
(However, some members in the ASP can and do speak in an official capacity.)
Uploaded by Rob Rosenberger, CompuServe SHAREWARE forum sysop, 27 Nov 89.
Appended Why Join Thread by George Abbott on 01 Jan 91.
=============================================
#: 66944 S9/Potential Authors
31-Oct-89 19:23:02
Sb: #Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: all
Hi! On behalf of the Association of Shareware Professionals (ASP), I'm
pleased to welcome you to this section. If you are thinking about
distributing a program as shareware, just starting out or contemplating
joining ASP, ask away as you wish. We have lots of members monitoring this
section and I'm sure you'll get useful advice.
Thanks for dropping by.
Come again soon.
Barry Simon
ASP President
#: 67005 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 17:13:56
Sb: #66944-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X)
Barryy, I just received a communication from Nelson Ford expessing interest in
including some of my "shareware" products in the PsL. Actually, I knew that
such "shareware" libraries existed, and that your association did too, but
I've really wondered what the advantages/benefits of becoming an ASP member
are. After reading all of the info contained on the PsL "Software Submission
Disk"(ette), I get this overwhelming feeling that in order for shareware to
have any real credibility, it should be authored by an ASP member. Although I
condsider my software to be credible/useful/non-trivial, I suppose that there
are advantages/benefits in becoming a member that don't really jump out and
grab me. What are they? What kind of research or survey has been conducted
of the ASP membership, showing conclusively that members fare better from
having joined? I beleive that I will be applying for membership within the
week if I am convinced. BTW, has anyone ever been rejected membership? I was
just a little bit amused at the psychology behind some of the application's
(cont'd)
#: 67007 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 17:38:37
Sb: #67005-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70 (X)
wording. (wow, what a challenge to have my software judged by a _committee_
to be "non-trivial!"). Anyway, I just wanted to get some kind of feel for
what's going on here. Thanks for your valuable time (do you ever rest? I see
your articles _everywhere_!). And, thanks for your valuable comments on, and
time spent looking at The Mail Machine this past August. We have spent
considerable time implementing new features and addressing every one of
comments/suggestions - beta for version 3.0 (major upgrade) is scheduled for
11/30; FCS 12/31. Also, we're being courted by a company w/ a bigger name and
more mktg power to develop a private label version. When beta is ready, I'll
ship you another copy (yet realizing your time constraints).
Neil W Taylor TaxWare PO Box 2014 Provo, UT 84601
#: 67010 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 17:55:11
Sb: #67005-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
As an ASP member, I can assure you there are definite advantages to being a
member of the Association. I've "done lunch" with Jim Button and, let me tell
you, I was all ears. I partied with Tom Smith about a month ago and he was
brimming with insights about the shareware industry.
The big boys are full of details about pitfalls they've discovered in
shareware. I know where to get disks duplicated quick & cheap; I know where
to buy labels; I know which disk vendors are unscrupulous; and I know which
magazines I should send my products to for a potential national review.
The ASP will host APCUG, the Association of PC User Groups, at COMDEX on
November 13 in a "meet the authors" session. Presidents, secretaries, and
newsletter editors from around the nation will be there to meet shareware
authors. The ASP has also sent out hundreds of press invitations. Think of
all the great publicity!
(I understand there will be six drawings during the event. Winners will
receive *more than two dozen* registered shareware products.)
The ASP has also been fighting to keep the word "shareware" itself in the
public domain. ASP has filed protests on three different continents to keep
people from taking it as a trademark word. You can understand the obvious
implications if you had to pay someone so you could advertise your products as
"shareware."
There are quite a few other things about ASP which make it worth joining.
(I like to tell Turbo Pascal programmers how I used to worship Neil Rubenking
until I joined!) Hope this gives you some information about the benefits of
ASP. "Membership has its privileges."
#: 67022 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 20:03:05
Sb: #67005-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
I'm VERY glad you asked. As of mid auguest we had about 160 author members;
I'd guess that we reject about 30 applicants reaching that number. Recently we
had a flurry and for whatever reason, there were 15 acceptances and 7
rejections. No idea if that is a fluctuation or not.
The non-triviality rule is not there to dump on any program but to eliminate
the applicant who writes a sorted directory lister and asks $20 for it - a
form of what we call what-the-heck-ware. Our rule of thumb is "could one of
us write it in a day". Rejection is only rarely for triviality ; it is most
often for a form of crippling or for an unprofessional package. We try to
work with applicants to explain our non-crippling policy and what would need
to be done to meet it or to help make the program professional (e.g. please
remove "if you use this program and don't pay, you will rot in hell").
ASP was founded to serve three purposes and there is a fourth one now; each
gives you a benefit; some more than others.
- to set standards for shareware authors and vendors
- to educate users and in particular deal with some of the misleading
advertising put out by some disk vendors
- to pool information and serve as resources for each other
- defacto, to "show the flag for shareware"
There are some number of users who have had bad experiences with shareware
connected most often with crippled programs or authors who don't respond to
their mail. ASP directly addresses these issues and users have come to look
for ASP membership as a kind of assurance of quality. One message on IBMAPP
earlier this week complained about experiences with authors not responding to
queries and end with "I've been stiffed like this before from shareware
authors. However, I _can_ safely recommend any product from an ASP author."
[More]
#: 67023 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 20:03:30
Sb: #67022-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X)
[Continued]
So one benefit is that by agreeing to our standards, you send a signal of
substantialness to your perspective customers.
We educate users with various files posted on BBS, discussions here and in our
vendor program which has gotten many vendors to change their "free programs"
tone. I was surprised to learn in dealing with some of these vendors that
they were often being thoughtless rather than 'cheating' and were anxious to
do things the right way. Of course, you get this benefit whether you join or
not but this is something that the organization does that you support by your
dues and decent software.
Wanna know where to get mailers, duplicate disks, get printer codes,.... These
issues are discussed in the private ASP sections and you get direct benefit of
the experiences of others.
Finally in the indirect category is that when a magazine gets confused a bout
shareware, ASP writes a reply; when APCUG (national coalition of user's
groups) wanted to meet shareware authors at Comdex they asked us to set
something up and we did. This has a direct component as members will have an
extra chance at exposure.
No survey has been taken to prove the benfit of membership. I'm not sure how
you'd measure that and frankly with limited resources, we've got better ways
to spend them.
I only write at this point for Personal Publishing and PC Mag and spend more
time on ASP, and my 'real' job than on computer journalism and I do find time
to work on my shareware program. As for time to rest, what's that <sigh>?
- Barry
#: 67032 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 21:22:04
Sb: #67005-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Paul Mayer (GRAB Plus) 70040,645
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
Neil; I guess I will jump in here again. Yes your submission will be gone
over for triviality as well as for professionalism, error trapping and your
support and such. The trivial rule is looked at from the stand point that
could one of the members whip the same thing together in an afternoon or a
day? Does the user interface allow for improper entries thus allowing the
computer to lock up and such. We have had some rejection. However I have found
that I worked harder trying to get these up to standards than on the others.
If there is a possibility that with some rewording and recoding an applicant
can come up to our standards I will assist as best I can. In the three words
that stand for ASP the most important is "Professionals" and without a
committee scrutinizing the applications the concept would never work. There
are other thing involved also such as the way the applicant does business. Is
he ethical? Does he give good support or does he just sit back and wait for
the money without answering letters and calls? This last thing has become a
touchy spot with me as Membership Coordinator. I feel if I try and contact an
applicant and cannot get through how can the customers?
Does the ASP work? <grin> Man has it ever for me! I have had so many
fantastic opportunities to pick the brains of the best it is unbelievable! Jut
the exposure I have had because of those three little letters behind my name
<ASP> in our Associate Member Shareware Disk Vendors. Yea, this is where the
turning point in my shareware business happened. - Paul
#: 67036 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 22:14:00
Sb: #67022-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: steve estvanik 76703,3046
To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X)
One question that comes up immediately -- is the review for ASP entry or is it
continuous? Is there a procedure EACH program must pass? or does the
acceptance initially grandfather subsequent products?
Also, are there any guidelines for shareware products that are ALSO sold as
retail products, directly?
steve
#: 67041 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 23:20:44
Sb: #67010-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Frank LaRosa (SLBBS) 73040,2557
To: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344 (X)
1. Who is Neil Rubenking? 2. Why did you worship him before you joined? 3. Why
do you no longer worship him? 4. Why is this of interest to Turbo Pascal
Programmers?
Just curious.
I've always wanted to start a company called "Oat". Then I could put the words
"Oat Brand" on everything I sold. People would line up for blocks to give me
their money.
#: 67042 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 23:27:42
Sb: #67007-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
Just a post script. You are known by the company you keep. You'll get
flagged in vendor catalogs as an ASP member and you'll get a listing in the
ASP catalog which appears in hundreds of BBSs.
- Barry
#: 67043 S9/Potential Authors
01-Nov-89 23:46:19
Sb: #67036-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: steve estvanik 76703,3046 (X)
The only REVIEW is at the time of acceptance but, except for non-triviality*,
all members agree to abide by the requriements past and future. (Requirements
can only be passed by 2/3 of those membership voting at a meeting announced by
mail). There is something of an honor system although violation do tend to
get reported and dealt with by the Ombudsman or the board. Usually, a
discussion with an author about a problem is quickly resolved. I can't recall
a single case where a member was removed although the bylaws give the board
that power. I can recall one case where an author woud have been removed but
he preferred to resign.
*Non-triviality is not a requirement in the sense that no crippling or support
it; rather, it is filter set up by the board to weed out unsubstantial
authors.
- Barry
#: 67044 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 01:29:22
Sb: #67036-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344
To: steve estvanik 76703,3046 (X)
As I understand it, Steve, your program(s) are reviewed once to determine
whether they meet the current membership requirements. ASP members agree to
police themselves to make sure they *continue* to meet all ASP standards for
the products they release as shareware.
There may be a few bad apples who won't police themselves. That's why the
ASP established an Ombudsman, so users can turn to a higher authority if a
member fails to live up to standards.
#: 67045 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 02:25:14
Sb: #67041-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344
To: Frank LaRosa (SLBBS) 73040,2557
1. You heathen! Everyone knows who Neil Rubenking is. <grin> Neil is a
Turbo Pascal wizard. He wrote a number of articles for Borland's "Turbo
Technix" magazine before it went under. You'll find his name splashed on all
sorts of Pascal tips & hints in the Languages column of PC Magazine; he also
edits the User-To-User column in that same journal.
2. I worshipped Neil because he knows so many undocumented things about Turbo
Pascal. Not to mention he knows most of the programming shortcuts you can
take without resorting to unstructured coding techniques. In the world of
Pascal, Neil ranks right up there with Kim Kokkonen and Jeff Duntemann.
3. I no longer worship him simply because I've talked turkey with him too
many times in the Association of Shareware Professionals. I finally figured
out he had to learn Turbo Pascal like the rest of us -- from the ground up.
(I got a message from him yesterday asking ME for advice about one of my own
pieces of OOP code.)
4. It's of interest to Turbo Pascal programmers because many of them read
Neil's articles. They'd love to shake his hand and tap into his brain. As an
ASP author, there have been one or two occasions when I simply write to
programmer X and say "hey, I'm an ASP guy just like you. Can you give me a
hint on such-and-such?" ASP authors take care of their own. You have to be
an ASP author to really appreciate that, I suppose...
name-droppin' Rob
#: 67052 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 08:50:35
Sb: #67023-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Jim Button (PC-File) 76004,1532
To: Barry Simon 76004,1664 (X)
It'll be a shame to see these brilliant replies scroll off after a while.
Perhaps replies like this one could be immortalized as a downloadable file
with a title like "reasons to join ASP."
-Jim
#: 67056 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 09:01:32
Sb: #67007-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Nelson Ford (My-Desk) 71355,470
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
Funny, I had just had a similar exchange with another non-member programmer
and so I have the following list of membership advantages at hand:
1. It is a way of letting users know that your programs meet ASP's support and
no-crippling requirements, which are two of the most common concerns of
shareware users.
2. The availability of the ASP's Ombudsman to resolve possible disputes serves
as further reassurance to users and thus helps promote registrations.
3. ASP membership helps assure users that the author of the program still can
be found, even if the address in the documentation is no longer valid.
4. ASP members share valuable information with each other on the ASP forum on
CIS.
5. ASP members have been able to pool their resources to promote their
products at major computer shows and to take legal action on behalf of all
members.
6. Virtually all of the major shareware distributors are now Associate Members
of ASP and promote ASP and its members in their publications. (The "licensing"
of shareware vendors in itself was another significant ASP project which
benefitted all shareware programmers and users.)
In the face of these advantages, it would take some pretty compelling reasons
for a programmer NOT to join, and I'm not aware of any such reasons, other
than not wanting to meets ASP's standards. That's why I said in the last PSL
NEWS that any author serious about marketing his programs as shareware should
be an ASP member.
#: 67059 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 10:21:45
Sb: #67005-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Gary Elfring (DOWNLOAD) 72417,3437
To: Neil W Taylor 76704,70
Neil, interesting to see you here.
I think there are two major reasons for joing the ASP. The first is
information. We have a group of members who have a great deal of experience in
marketing software as shareware. This group can offer you marketing adivice
that would take you years to figure out on your own. We can also supply
information on the technical aspect of things like where to get disks, how to
duplicate them, labels, where to print manual, and how to package software.
The second reason has to do with respect. The ASP is gaining momentum each
day. We already see a number of messages on BBSs with people who complain
about the porr quality of shareware or the lack of response from shareware
authors. But those same messages now add, EXCEPT FOR ASP SHAREWARE. When
people see a shareware product from an ASP author they know the product meets
a set of minimum standards, it is not crippled, the author will respond to
registrations, and there is a method for resolving registration conflicts
(Omnibudman).
#: 67066 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 11:43:48
Sb: #67045-#Welcome to section 9
Fm: Neil J. Rubenking 72241,50
To: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344 (X)
Rob,
Can I send a copy of this message to my Mom? (blush)
-- Neil
#: 67096 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 17:28:18
Sb: #67066-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Rob Rosenberger\Qanalyst 74017,1344
To: Neil J. Rubenking 72241,50
Gods don't have mothers. :-)
#: 67122 S9/Potential Authors
02-Nov-89 22:05:58
Sb: #67066-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: Neil J. Rubenking 72241,50
Huh - you wanna send a message that says "he was my hero but then I met him so
he isn't any more" to your mom <grin>.
- Barry
#: 67359 S9/Potential Authors
05-Nov-89 14:54:22
Sb: #67335-Welcome to section 9
Fm: Barry Simon 76004,1664
To: Steve Lee (ShrwrMktg) 73447,1252
Actually one of our miscellaneous standards reads:
"The program author will respond to people who send registration payments, as
promised in the program's documentation. At a minimum, the author will
acknowledge receipt of all payments."
Not responding for 6 months violates that policy. We might not learn of the
problem during the initial screening but if we did, you can be sure we'd
reject the author without a firm promise tro shape up. If the OMB got
complaints about this, we'd take action.
- Barry
#: 104857 S9/Potential Authors
27-Dec-90 20:25:39
Sb: #Why join?
Fm: Bob Burns (Public Brand) 73667,324
To: All
Let me pass along to you a message left on an echomail system by a staff
member representing a major shareware tele-communications package:
"We are not members of the ASP. We don't see it as providing any benefits to
us whatsoever."
These folks produce an excellent program that is not crippled, have a loyal
following of satisfied users (including me), have gotten glowing reviews by
respected writers, and are probably getting a ton of registrations.
What's the answer guys? Why _should_ they join the ASP?
* Replies: 104860, 104867, 104877, 104892
#: 104860 S9/Potential Authors
27-Dec-90 21:12:08
Sb: #104857-Why join?
Fm: Rosemary West KIDPIX 72301,435
To: Bob Burns (Public Brand) 73667,324
Maybe they don't need to join. If they are truly getting everything they want
from the shareware system, and if they don't feel that they have anything to
contribute to others, then membership in an organization like this may have no
purpose for them. That doesn't negate the benefits it has for others.
* Reply: 105008
#: 105008 S9/Potential Authors
30-Dec-90 10:22:47
Sb: #104860-Why join?
Fm: Tom Rawson [4DOS] 75300,210
To: Rosemary West KIDPIX 72301,435
So what's KIDPIX?
... Tom
* Reply: 105066
#: 105066 S9/Potential Authors
30-Dec-90 23:14:46
Sb: #105008-Why join?
Fm: Rosemary West KIDPIX 72301,435
To: Tom Rawson [4DOS] 75300,210
Children's drawings converted to Wallpaper for Windows 3.0 and PCX format.
#: 104867 S9/Potential Authors
28-Dec-90 00:02:55
Sb: #104857-Why join?
Fm: STEVE HUDGIK (Share Book 71450,254
To: Bob Burns (Public Brand) 73667,324
I got that same answer from a lot of the non-ASP shareware publishers I
interviewed. I feel the answer is:
Although you do not feel you need the educational benefits of the ASP, since
you already are successful, you are receiving a benefit - even though you are
not a member. All shareware publishers benefit from the increased recognition
of shareware as a viable marketing method. All shareware authors benefit from
the increased recognition of shareware publishers as professionals. All
shareware publishers benefit from the ASP's legal efforts to protect the
shareware concept and name. All shareware publishers benefit from the ASP's
marketing efforts to make users (and the media) aware of what shareware is and
how it works.
Even though all shareware publishers receive these benefits whether or not
they are members, the ASP can only continue to provide them if it has the
support of authors. Even if they do not wish to actively participate I feel
all authors should join the ASP at least in recognition that they are
benefiting from the existence of the ASP.
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