Children's Writers Chat 5-23-00

Subject: Children's Writers - HUnderdown

Author: Harold Underdown, Editor

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Date: 6/21/2000

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Children's Writers Chat 5-23-00

Our guest: Harold Underdown, Editorial Director of Charlesbridge Press.

What, when & where:

Tuesdays

9 p.m. ET (6 p.m. PT), Writers Workshop

Children's Writers chat - writers and illustrators of children's books meet for specific topics and special guest speakers, moderated by HOST WRTR WBABE & HOST WRTR CGaley, with HOST WRTR sUe & HOST WRTR Neely (Greeters).

***file disinfected using Anti-Virus 7.8***

<HTML>Children's Writers Workshop 5-23-00

Our guest: Harold Underdown, Editorial Director of Charlesbridge Press.

WriterBabe: Harold, are you ready?

UNDERDOWNH: I'm in Brooklyn too andl looking forward to rain tomorrow

RoxyanneY: That qualifies as rain here.

UNDERDOWNH: Im' ready

WriterBabe: Great!

WriterBabe: Okay, folks, we're going into protocol now.

WriterBabe: That means when it's time for audience participation,

WriterBabe: type ? for a question,

WriterBabe: ! for a comment,

WriterBabe: and wait your turn in the queue to be called on.

WriterBabe: Type GA for Go Ahead (guests, too) when you've finished

speaking.

WriterBabe: Tonight I'm truly pleased to welcome a fellow Brooklynite,

WriterBabe: excellent editor,

WriterBabe: and web guru,

WriterBabe: Harold Underdown.

WriterBabe: Hi, Harold!

UNDERDOWNH: Thanks!

WriterBabe: Let me just add that co-host Chuck Galey is allowed to interrupt

at will.

UNDERDOWNH: Good to be here (wherever that is) GA

WriterBabe: Say hi, Chuck.

CGaley: Hello everyone!

WriterBabe: Harold, do you want to make opening remarks, or shall I plunge

in with questions? GA

UNDERDOWNH: I hadn't prepared any remarks...

UNDERDOWNH: GA

WriterBabe: No problem.

WriterBabe: We were talking about Monty Python and you're a fan.

WriterBabe: That suggests a witty, sophisticated, somewhat idiosyncratic

taste.

WriterBabe: How does that relate to your taste in children's books?

WriterBabe: In what you accept/reject? GA

UNDERDOWNH: Or a love of bad puns, crude language, and such...

WriterBabe: That too!

UNDERDOWNH: Or a liking for humor and nonsense,

UNDERDOWNH: and those are things I like to see.

UNDERDOWNH: But good quality nonsense... GA

WriterBabe: What makes for "good quality," Harold? GA

UNDERDOWNH: Ah, I know it when I see it. GA

WriterBabe: Oy vay, famous editorial words.

WriterBabe: LOL

UNDERDOWNH: Of course.

UNDERDOWNH: But there isn't time and space to explain here. GA

WriterBabe: Okay, you used to be an elementary school teacher. What effect

has that had on your taste?

WriterBabe: GA

UNDERDOWNH: Now that's a good question...

UNDERDOWNH: I know that I look for books that I would have wanted to use

Becca4656: hi room..how are you all

UNDERDOWNH: in the classroom I used to teachin.

WriterBabe: (Becca, we're in protocol. Read your IM)

UNDERDOWNH: And for books my students would have liked and would have

UNDERDOWNH: found meaningful. GA

WriterBabe: Charlesbridge specializes in non-fiction books for the very

young.

WriterBabe: Please tell us a bit about that genre.

WriterBabe: What makes a successful non-fiction picture book?

WriterBabe: What doesn't? GA

UNDERDOWNH: Well, not that young, up to 10.

WriterBabe: Okay.

UNDERDOWNH: There are a number of kinds of books we publish.

UNDERDOWNH: A concept book, for example, needs a strong concept, well

developed, and age appropriate.

UNDERDOWNH: For older readers I look either for a narrative flow, almost a

story,

UNDERDOWNH: or a text that lends itself to spread-by-spread treatment.

UNDERDOWNH: We get a lot of stuff that reads like magazine articles

UNDERDOWNH: or like entries in a reference book, and those just don't make

good picture books. GA

WriterBabe: Very dry or lightweight, eh? GA

UNDERDOWNH: Oh, I'll always go for lightweight.

WriterBabe: LOL

UNDERDOWNH: Actually, you can pack a lot into 32 pages. GA

WriterBabe: I agree.

WriterBabe: How related are Charlesbridge's books to the curriculum?

UNDERDOWNH: And the trick is to find the balance. Pack too much, and you

have a problem. GA

WriterBabe: Would you advise authors to find out what books are "needed" for

schools?

WriterBabe: Ga

UNDERDOWNH: Some of our books are very school-targeted,

UNDERDOWNH: others less so.

UNDERDOWNH: It doesn't hurt to know what schools need, but you shouldn't

UNDERDOWNH: write about a topic that doesn't interest you just because you

believe it will sell. That's

UNDERDOWNH: death.

UNDERDOWNH: Ga

WriterBabe: One comment I've gotten when I've pitched certain non-fiction

ideas is that they're "too

WriterBabe: specific."

WriterBabe: One book that I did--on animal rear ends--got that criticism.

WriterBabe: How big a problem is specificity in the marketplace? GA

UNDERDOWNH: Part of that balance issue. You don't want to be too broad,

either. You

UNDERDOWNH: really have to be able to get the right level. GA

WriterBabe: How does one find a fresh topic for non-fiction? What sort of

topics catch your eye? GA

UNDERDOWNH: Specificity can also be an editorial shorthand for "I' m not

interested but I can't say exac

UNDERDOWNH: tly why.

WriterBabe: Or for we have no idea how to market this one.

UNDERDOWNH: I never know what is going to catch my eye

UNDERDOWNH: until it does, but I will tell you one of my

UNDERDOWNH: nonfiction heroes is Holling Clancy Holling.

UNDERDOWNH: Anyone who wants to write nonfiction for children

UNDERDOWNH: should know his books.

UNDERDOWNH: GA

WriterBabe: I'm not familiar with him. What does he write on? GA

UNDERDOWNH: He was active in the 50's, and his books are still in print.

UNDERDOWNH: He may be the only person to win both a Caldecott Honor and a

Newbery

UNDERDOWNH: Honor. Books like Minn of the Mississippi. This is nonfiction

UNDERDOWNH: that tells a story. And that brings in many different

UNDERDOWNH: kinds of information. Minn is a turtle who travels all the way

UNDERDOWNH: down the Miss. river. We hear her story and we see

UNDERDOWNH: maps, diagrams of leaves, pictures of archaeological sites...

UNDERDOWNH: It's a great read. GA

WriterBabe: Thanks. A few more questions from me, and then we'll open this

to the audience.

WriterBabe: What are some of the mistakes pre-published (and even published)

picture book writers make?

WriterBabe: GA

UNDERDOWNH: Some? I've got a list of them in my article

UNDERDOWNH: Getting Out of the Slush Pile on my WWW site, but

UNDERDOWNH: one that always amazes me is how few people

UNDERDOWNH: do good research on the company that they are sending

UNDERDOWNH: a manuscript to. We get novels. We get the wrong kind of

nonfiction

UNDERDOWNH: and we also get submissions that show someone has a vague idea

UNDERDOWNH: about our program. BUT the submissions that get MY

UNDERDOWNH: attention are the ones that mention books of ours, like The Flag

We Love or

UNDERDOWNH: Turn of the Century or The Ugly Vegetables. That writer

UNDERDOWNH: is showing me they have a reason for choosing us. GA

WriterBabe: Yes, you do, and it's a great article. I urge everyone to read

it--and check out your

WriterBabe: entire site.

WriterBabe: Thanks for the tips!

WriterBabe: I'd like to talk about the internet for a moment.

WriterBabe: How can a writer effectively use the internet for promotion?

WriterBabe: It's obvious how to use it for research!

WriterBabe: GA

UNDERDOWNH: Excellent question. You have to integrate what you do into

UNDERDOWNH: your overall promotional efforts.You can't just build a WWW

UNDERDOWNH: site and leave it there. You have to update it. You have to talk

about

UNDERDOWNH: it at your school visits and list your school visits on it.

There is a list on my

UNDERDOWNH: site of some WWW sites from authors and illustrators

UNDERDOWNH: that I think are effective. It's a time investment! But worth it

for some people.

UNDERDOWNH: Ga

WriterBabe: Thanks, Harold. My site is, I fear, lying there like a lox.

You've inspired me--

WriterBabe: and all of us!

WriterBabe: Now, it's time for audience participation.

UNDERDOWNH: Thanks.

RoxyanneY: ?

WriterBabe: Folks, type ? and !

WriterBabe: Roxy, you're quick on the draw and you're first.

RoxyanneY: Is writing-in-progress posted to a website considered published?

Not to an ezine, to a

Prbatey: ?

RoxyanneY: personal promotional website.

RoxyanneY: ga

RoxyanneY: (blowing the smoke off my keyboard)

UNDERDOWNH: I wouldn't consider it published. But since Charlesbridge looks

at all submissions,

UNDERDOWNH: regardless of whether or not you are published, that doesn't

matter.

UNDERDOWNH: GA

WriterBabe: Does that answer your question, Roxy? GA

RoxyanneY: thank you

PHeeren: ?

WriterBabe: Prb, go ahead.

Prbatey: Harold, what grade did you teach in elementary school? And what

were your favorite

RoxyanneY: I just wanted to make sure that these sites I'm building with

writers' works-in-progress

Prbatey: subjects? ga

RoxyanneY: wouldn't endanger their chances of having those works considered

for publiocation

RoxyanneY: .ga

UNDERDOWNH: I taught different grades, but immediately before I got burned

out and left

UNDERDOWNH: for publishing I was teaching 3rd and 4th graders. They loved

James and the Giant Peach

UNDERDOWNH: and so did I.

UNDERDOWNH: I enjoyed Reading and Science with them.

UNDERDOWNH: But I am interested in just about everything. I think one has to

be, to

UNDERDOWNH: edit nonfiction effectively. I always find I'M learning a lot,

and that

UNDERDOWNH: makes it fun. GA

Prbatey: Yes, me too (Peach). Thanks! ga

WriterBabe: PH, you're next.

PHeeren: I am thinking of writing a nonfiction picture book about diabetes

PHeeren: since I have experience with the disease and I wonder if little

kids would read about diabet

PHeeren: es or not....what do you think? ga

UNDERDOWNH: My Topic Book Alarm is going off. Possible to do but you could

get shoved

UNDERDOWNH: into a niche. Kids will read it. The market may be less open! GA

UNDERDOWNH: How about some fiction questions?

WriterBabe: The queue is open, folks.

WriterRoss: ?

WriterBabe: Pam, fire away.

WriterRoss: Hi then-- Pamela Ross. What do you do first

WriterRoss: re: editing a fiction book you've acquired?

WriterRoss: GA

WriterRoss: (Thanks)

Neely f: (Hey, I know you. )

WriterRoss: ;>

UNDERDOWNH: Sit and stare at it for a while. Then put it away and get back

to it a week later...

Jonezeemac: hi all

UNDERDOWNH: Sorry, but you need to be more specific, Pam! GA

WriterRoss: (Sounds like what we do after we finish a mss.)

WriterRoss: Line edit? Overall? or..

UNDERDOWNH: Well, it depends!

Jonezeemac: i am writing a mystery story

Texsarks: ?

UNDERDOWNH: Depends on what it needs. Some need a structural edit, and

UNDERDOWNH: in that case I'll just ask questions and make comments.

UNDERDOWNH: Or it might be ready to line-edit. GA

CGaley: (Jonez, this is a children's writers group... and we're in protocol,

read your IM's)

WriterRoss: I think that's my final answer, isn't it? Thanks--

Prbatey: ?

WriterBabe: Tex, go ahead

Texsarks: I go to edit and next thing I am re-writing and changing>Why does

this happen?

UNDERDOWNH: Isn't that what happens in the editing process? I'm not sure I

understand what the problem

UNDERDOWNH: is. GA

WriterBabe: Tex, why do you consider that a problem? GA

Texsarks: The book is finished. Complete. As I edit I change, go off in a

diffrent direction.

UNDERDOWNH: You are doing this, or the editor is? GA

WriterBabe: Then why are you editing? GA

WriterBabe: Tex?

Texsarks: I do. Take secondary characters and go with them. Add and change

and rearrange.

UNDERDOWNH: Sounds like a problem I run into sometimes.

UNDERDOWNH: It can be hard to stop, and say you are done. But you have to.

Texsarks: Why? Why can't we be thorugh? Finished?

UNDERDOWNH: I might edit a book right up to the deadline and beyond. But

UNDERDOWNH: that's why there are deadlines! GA

WriterBabe: Well, an interesting problem for a lot of writers is that we

don't know when to stop.

WriterBabe: A question that comes up here is how do we know when something

IS finished?

WriterBabe: Any tips on that, Harold? GA

Texsarks: Right!!!!! Help.

UNDERDOWNH: When the book has to go to press?

RoxyanneY: !

UNDERDOWNH: I'm serious. I am somewhat notorious at work for

WriterBabe: :-P

UNDERDOWNH: not letting go of stuff. GA

RoxyanneY: I have a writing teacher who says, "Writing is never finished,

it's just due."

UNDERDOWNH: VERY apt.

WriterBabe: Doesn't work when you're shaping a manuscript to send to an

editor, though.

WriterBabe: It's not due at any time, then.

UNDERDOWNH: No. But sometimes you just have to set your own deadlines and

goals.

Jonezeemac: hi

UNDERDOWNH: And realize that if the manuscript is published it will change

again. GA

Prbatey: How many books does Charlesbridge publish per year? Any plans to

expand into middle grade?

Prbatey: ga

UNDERDOWNH: We publish about 25 books a year now. About ten are fiction. We

are \

Neely f: (Jon, Please do not interrupt the meeting.)

UNDERDOWNH: talking about middle grade but have made no plans. I don't

UNDERDOWNH: see it happening for the next couple of years, at least.

UNDERDOWNH: GA

Prbatey: thanks ga

WriterBabe: Harold, I'm curious as to why you don't do chapter books? GA

UNDERDOWNH: Personally I have always worked on older books, and I would

UNDERDOWNH: love to do them. But Charlesbridge started as a picture

WriterBabe: (The queue's empty)

Texsarks: ?

UNDERDOWNH: book publisher and going into middle grade is going into

RoxyanneY: ?

UNDERDOWNH: a different market, and one we would need to adjust to. GA

WriterBabe: Thanks.

WriterBabe: Tex, you're up.

RoxyanneY: I've been toying with an idea that came to me after I had written

my third article on an

Ekbruno: ?

RoxyanneY: whoops - sorry!

Texsarks: children face so much... Columbine, violence. Are books that

address such serious issues

Texsarks: in demand like how to face such crisis with fiction?

UNDERDOWNH: The trick with books like that is in not letting the

UNDERDOWNH: message overwhelm the story, unless you

UNDERDOWNH: are deliberately publishing a kind of emotional

Jonezeemac: is this the childrens room

UNDERDOWNH: how-to book. We did a book called Bottles Break last yearm

BOEDEN: ?

UNDERDOWNH: about a child with an alcoholic mother. Pretty direct, but

effective.

UNDERDOWNH: I wouldn't say, though, that there is a DEMAND for such books.

GA

WriterBabe: Roxy, your turn.

RoxyanneY: Okay, after my third article on the topic of historic shipwrecks,

I find myself becoming a

RoxyanneY: maritime tragedy expert. I was thinking of proposing a book idea

on the topic, but I'm not s

Prbatey: ?

RoxyanneY: sure whether to do a book on a single wreck, or a longer chapter

book on

RoxyanneY: several wrecks. What do you think?

UNDERDOWNH: I think either one could work, but you would probably find more

interest

PHeeren: !

UNDERDOWNH: in a book that covered several wrecks, preferably on both

coasts. More

UNDERDOWNH: libraries would see it as having value for money, and teachers

UNDERDOWNH: could fit it into their curriculum. But one gripping story about

a particular wreck could

UNDERDOWNH: work too. Look what happened in adult books with The Perfect

Storm

UNDERDOWNH: GA

RoxyanneY: Cool, thanks.

WriterBabe: Ek, take it away.

Ekbruno: Do you accept unsolicited manuscripts if we put "exclusive" on the

envelope? GA

UNDERDOWNH: Exactly. That's our rule. GA

Texsarks: ?

Ekbruno: Thanks ga

WriterBabe: You also promise to get back to folks quickly, right, Harold?

GA

UNDERDOWNH: We try to do two months or less but promise three, and

UNDERDOWNH: at present I think we are doing that. GA

Neely f: ##%#% 10 MINUTE WARNING #%#%#%

WriterBabe: That's pretty fast.

WriterBabe: Sue, your turn.

UNDERDOWNH: Thanks.

BOEDEN: It is said, write what you know. My former profession was in the

home

BOEDEN: building industry, inspector and such. Would you think there is an

BOEDEN: interest in various parts of that topic? ga

UNDERDOWNH: I have seen several picture books on the building of a home.

BOEDEN: I am talking more YA/

BOEDEN: ga

UNDERDOWNH: I don't know how technical you could get. It would depend on the

age of your intended reader

UNDERDOWNH: For YA a more career-oriented approach could work, though

UNDERDOWNH: that would probably limit you to the library market. GA

BOEDEN: I agree. I can go low tech or high. Thanks.

KAWASUNA: ?

WriterBabe: Prb, you're next.

Prbatey: If you love a ms., but you see it might need a bit of work and the

author is unpublished,

Prbatey: do you hesitate on aquiring it? ga

UNDERDOWNH: Ah, a tricky question. I probably don't acquire it, but i send

an editorial letter and try

UNDERDOWNH: to get it to the point where I can acquire it with all

confidence. GA

WriterBabe: PH, you have a comment.

PHeeren: I think children are always eager and anixous to find out what

interests them

PHeeren: because they want to explore the world and its wonderful things it

gives them, right?

PHeeren: am I correct?

PHeeren: ga

UNDERDOWNH: Absolutely. GA

Unique Ewe: ?

WriterBabe: Tex, go ahead.

Texsarks: does poetry interest children... is it too uh... boring,

'childish?' old hat?

Texsarks: in story form of curse.

Texsarks: course

UNDERDOWNH: Depends on the poetry. There is a lot of verse published in

UNDERDOWNH: the mass market. Trade publishers don't find that rhyme is

BetsFeeney: ?

UNDERDOWNH: much liked in our market, and all too often just not that good,

UNDERDOWNH: so we tend to go for prose. But kids love good poetry. And it

does still

UNDERDOWNH: get published. The problem is that so many adults

UNDERDOWNH: don't read poetry, and so they don't buy it or get

UNDERDOWNH: it from the library for their children! GA

WriterBabe: I've been told that the market for poetry has expanded again,

Harold. At least that's what

Texsarks: thanks!

WriterBabe: Marc Aronson says.

WriterBabe: True? GA

Neely f: :":":"::":":":" 5 MINUTE WARNING :"::":":":"":"

UNDERDOWNH: If Marc says it, it must be true. The Children's Book Council

UNDERDOWNH: has been promoting it, and I do see a LITTLE more being

UNDERDOWNH: published, but this is not exactly the Golden Age of Verse. GA

WriterBabe: Boy, I'm glad to hear that.

WriterBabe: The promotion--not that it's not the Golden Age of Verse.

WriterBabe: Kawa, you're next.

KAWASUNA: harold, you mentioned your webpage. the address? ga

UNDERDOWNH: www.underdown.org

KAWASUNA: thanks. ga.

WriterBabe: Ewe, go ahead.

Unique Ewe: Do children always know what they are interested in before

reading about a subject?

UNDERDOWNH: No. Lots of books are introduced to children

UNDERDOWNH: by the adults in their life, either through school or by a

relative. GA

WriterBabe: Bets, fire away.

BetsFeeney: I am currently travelling the country with my daughter who is in

a touring broadway show.

BetsFeeney: I am considering co-writng a journal/scrapbook with her in

picture book form. have you

CGaley: (COOL!)

BetsFeeney: heard of this type of book? GA

UNDERDOWNH: I have seen books that take that kind of approach,

UNDERDOWNH: though not with that subject. The challenge is always, when

UNDERDOWNH: writing directly about personal experience, to avoid being

UNDERDOWNH: so personal as to lose your audience. GA

WriterBabe: What's the show, Bets? GA

Neely f: Folks, the hour hand has swept past ten o'clock and the novelists

come a-knocking.

UNDERDOWNH: So long.

BetsFeeney: good advice, thank you. ga

Texsarks: thanks and night.......

Unique Ewe: Nite all

Ekbruno: goodnight...

WriterBabe: Harold, any final words of wisdom for us?

BetsFeeney: RAGTIME!!!

RoxyanneY: Thank you very much!

CGaley: Thanks, Harold... good job!

WriterBabe: Cool, Bets!

BOEDEN: Thanks for the informative and accommodating session. You are very

generous with answers.

MudderGG: Thanks to all...

BOEDEN: Thanks Marilyn... Consummate professional as always.

Neely f: ()()()()()( CLAPPING ()()()()()

UNDERDOWNH: Remember this is a business.

WriterRoss: Novelists and possums come a-knocking. ;> Ragtime. Whoa.

DebsWrite: Very much enjoyed the chat

BOEDEN: Nice job crew...

WriterBabe: Harold, thank you so much for a great chat.

BOEDEN: Have a great week everyone!

Prbatey: Harold, thanks for the info! I look forward to meeting you this

summer at Chautauqua!

BetsFeeney: yes, and I have to go pick her up at the theater now --bbye

WriterBabe: I enjoyed it a lot!

WriterRoss: Harold: thank you for joining us this evening. []

WriterBabe: Come back again and talk to us about the business end of the

business!

UNDERDOWNH: I will.

WriterRoss: (I wish we did tonight.)

Neely f: Harold, hope to see you next week.

WriterBabe: Next week, Open Chat. I will be on vacation, but Chuck, Donna

and Sue will be here.

BOEDEN: Aloha Nui Ka Koa ~ Night

MaryP2000: Thank you!

BrendaHB: Welcome, Novelists! :)

WriterBabe: Happy Memorial Day!

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