UFO message boards

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From: dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Cry of the Phoenix

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.083118.24958@csi.compuserve.com>

Date: 13 Feb 92 08:31:18 GMT

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In article <5548@shodha.enet.dec.com> timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) writes:

>

>In article <1992Feb9.125313.28781@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes...

>

>        WHAT A WAIST OF BAND WIDTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

>        Steve


I had a waist of bandwidth once...but a healthy diet and regular exercise

managed to get it all under control...<g>


:)


Be seeing you...

-- 

         David "Maelstrom" Zecchini | "It may be better to be a live jackal

       dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com | than a dead lion, but it is better still

 dzecchin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | to be a live lion.  And usually easier."

           maelstro@bluemoon.rn.com | -Robert A. Heinlein

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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Grey Aliens Sighted .... Again

Message-ID: <109273.29995B1F@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 12 Feb 92 16:11:00 GMT

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 > >Is this cooper document  authentic?

 > >Also what has happened to him for the past two years?

 > >Has he any plans to do any seminar's in Europe?

 > >Has anybody purchased the JFK video from bill cooper?

 > >Is there any FTP sites where I can grab more info on this subject?

 >

 > >Any help would be much appreciated.

 >

 > Is this the same Bill Cooper who says that JFK's driver did the killing?

 > That Bill Cooper?

 >

 > Don Allen, Mike Corbin -- any comments?


First, I don't want to get into any protracted discussions about Bill Cooper. 

All I can say is that we, ParaNet, had a great deal of experience with Bill 

Cooper, up to and including ejecting him from the net for causing a variety of 

disruptions, not to mention strong attacks on other members of the net that 

were counter-productive to intelligent discussion.  Our organization has 

investigated Cooper to the max and can find no truth in anything he says 

except that he was in the Navy, but not in the capacity that he claims. 

Further, the tape of the JFK driver has obviously been altered.  I have a copy 

of that tape and I have no doubt in my mind that someone has edited it to make 

it look like the driver.  The bottom line is that Bill Cooper just doesn't 

hold water, so anything he says should be taken with a large block of salt and 

tongue planted firmly in cheek.


Mike


--  

Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

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From: jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Summary: Another sick deluded dupe who believes in Mars faces...

Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>

Date: 13 Feb 92 08:49:12 GMT

Expires: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 05:00:00 GMT

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Yes, I've read "Monuments of Mars", and Hogaland doesn't exactly strike

me as a "UFO nut" or "kook" or whatever ephithet is going around these

days. He's (after all) a repected scientist (not that means he couldn't

be wrong, _but_...) and the book is a reasonably calm, well-researched

text. His _theories_ about the origin of the Face may be questionable,

but I for one believe there's SOMETHING weird in Cydonia.

By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a

"face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and 

accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to 

Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.

--Tog


P.S. If it _isn't_ natural... 

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From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)

Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars-face info why it might be no optical delusion!

Keywords: mars face

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.102605.16239@rhrk.uni-kl.de>

Date: 13 Feb 92 10:26:05 GMT

References: <bosullvn.697232270@unix1.tcd.ie> <1992Feb05.164042.10541@csi.compuserve.com> <1992Feb5.192555.13090@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu> <1992Feb10.193545.18596@cadence.com>

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In article <1992Feb10.193545.18596@cadence.com>, jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) writes:

>[..]  The guide says, "Here's the grand piano...". Sure enough,

>2 seconds later this grand piano comes into view. Naturally, its just

>a big limestone rock. But, once they suggest to you it is a grand piano

>before you see it, it certainly becomes a grand piano when you see it.


>[..] Sometimes they could actually

>convince me I was seeing the things they suggested. Sometimes they 

>couldnt.


>   When I looked at the picture of the face on Mars, I saw a face 

>right away. But, it was presented to me as "The Famous Face on Mars".

>I think I would have known it as a face even if it werent suggested that

>way.


It is important for survival to recognize faces even if they are

distorted or partly hidden or just vaguely face-like (animals

have very different sorts of faces).  It is normally not important

for survival to recognize pianos or rocking chairs.


-- 

-Caddy------(thomas kettenring, kaiserslautern, germany)--------

-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth---Stolen

-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth-----from

-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth--Matt G.

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From: haught@jvnc.net (Darrell Haught)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.130215.18372@jvnc.net>

Date: 13 Feb 92 13:02:15 GMT

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In article <behse.697924019@tubue> behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:

>Hi,

>

>I had posted  the PYRAMIDS.JPG picture in various news-groups.

>I'm just wondering what You think about the Pyramids on mars ??

>Did You already take a look at it and what do You think about it ?

>Only optical delusion or proof of soemthing unexplainable ?

>Let me know !

>

>Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for

>Decentral Energy Research

>email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de

>


  Is this available in Gif format?



Darrell

haught@nisc.jvnc.net

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From: v070qg5d@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Eric M Chmiel)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Summary: Another sick deluded dupe who believes in Mars faces...

Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.152533.7634@acsu.buffalo.edu>

Date: 13 Feb 92 15:27:00 GMT

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In article <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes...

>Yes, I've read "Monuments of Mars", and Hogaland doesn't exactly strike

>me as a "UFO nut" or "kook" or whatever ephithet is going around these

>days. He's (after all) a repected scientist (not that means he couldn't

>be wrong, _but_...) and the book is a reasonably calm, well-researched

>text. His _theories_ about the origin of the Face may be questionable,

>but I for one believe there's SOMETHING weird in Cydonia.

>By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a

>"face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and 

>accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to 

>Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.

> --Tog

>P.S. If it _isn't_ natural... 


   Just out of curiosity....I don't have the picture of the Mars face handy, 

but I believe almost half the face is obscured in shadow, am I right?  If this

is so, you are on very shaky ground claiming perfect bilateral symmetry for 

something that you can only see half of.  The other obscured half may just

look like a big rock.

    On the other hand, there can be no doubt that the Mars face is human in

form.  What are the chances that an extraterrestrial race would evolve the

same facial characteristics as man?  Not good, I would suspect.  My point is

that you are asking us to believe that whoever built the Mars face had human

features (unlikely if they are native to another planet) or that they built

a monument to a human on Mars.  If the face were of extraterrestrial origin

it would probably look completely unhuman, wouldn't it?

    Please explain this to me.  I am very curious.  And please don't say the 

face looks human because human-looking extraterrestrials came to earth on

spaceships and bred Homo Sapiens or something wacky like that.  Just explain

this to me.

                                           -Eric

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From: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <GERRY.92Feb13111935@onion.cmu.edu>

Date: 13 Feb 92 16:19:35 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs> <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>

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In-Reply-To: jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu's message of 13 Feb 92 08:49:12 GMT


In article <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu> jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:

   Yes, I've read "Monuments of Mars", and Hogaland doesn't exactly strike

   me as a "UFO nut" or "kook" or whatever ephithet is going around these

   days. He's (after all) a repected scientist (not that means he couldn't

   be wrong, _but_...) and the book is a reasonably calm, well-researched

   text. 


If he came across as a nut, no one would believe him.  Although he is

quite wrong, his rantings may be enough to get the public interested

in sending another mission to Mars, which is a good thing.


   His _theories_ about the origin of the Face may be questionable,

   but I for one believe there's SOMETHING weird in Cydonia.

   By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a

   "face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and 

   accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to 

   Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.


If you look at enough randomly generated, natural formations

(especially if you computer enhance the images) you will see

everything you can imagine.


--

Gerry Roston (gerry@cs.cmu.edu) | Why has government been instituted at all?

Field Robotics Center,          | Because the passions of man will not con-

Carnegie Mellon University      | form to the dictates of reason and justice

Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | without constraint.  Alexander Hamilton

(412) 268-3856                  | 

                                | 

The opinions expressed are mine | 

and do not reflect the official | 

position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | 

or any other organization.      | 

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From: zzzk@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Ken Eshelby)

Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars-face info why it might be no optical delusion!

Keywords: mars face

Message-ID: <zzzk.698003463@jacobs>

Date: 13 Feb 92 17:51:03 GMT

References: <bosullvn.697232270@unix1.tcd.ie> <1992Feb05.164042.10541@csi.compuserve.com> <1992Feb5.192555.13090@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu> <1992Feb10.193545.18596@cadence.com> <1992Feb13.102605.16239@rhrk.uni-kl.de>

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kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes:


>In article <1992Feb10.193545.18596@cadence.com>, jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) writes:


>>   When I looked at the picture of the face on Mars, I saw a face 

>>right away. But, it was presented to me as "The Famous Face on Mars".

>>I think I would have known it as a face even if it werent suggested that

>>way.


>It is important for survival to recognize faces even if they are

>distorted or partly hidden or just vaguely face-like (animals

>have very different sorts of faces).  It is normally not important

>for survival to recognize pianos or rocking chairs.


  Right!  Take a human individual and family developement class sometime and

  you will probably learn that infants have a built in mechanism to respond

  more positively to human faces rather than - a ball for example (even if 

  it's close to the color of a human's face). This goes along with the 

  built-in abilities to drive parents crazy into caring for their child because

  of that high-pitched cry that I'm sure you all have heard before.


  Point is:  we can relate to shapes that are "human-esque" almost instantly

  because of our instincts.  Maybe I'll test this by showing some friends the

  face and recording their reactions.  (I'll use people that I haven't rambled

  endlessly to about the implications and reasonings behind the complex on

  Cydonia)   Get back to ya!


  later...

  -ken

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From: u1625@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Pigeon Steven)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Mars face, pyramids, & a giant teddy bear in Australia

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.193618.4308@jsp.umontreal.ca>

Date: 13 Feb 92 19:36:18 GMT

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Ok, I must admit that those pictures are most fascinating, but, what

if and alien probe passed above Australia and then cought a picture

of the big red rock shaped like a lazy bear (Ayer's Rock, I think)

would they absolutly think it's man-made? (or "what ever"-made?) 

Even if it does look like some lifeform, I'd think twice about it.

It is perfectly natural. Like might be the face on Mars. No one ever

saw the sphinx' face in the desert of ... somewhere in soudan? It 

does look like a skull, and again, it was shaped by the wind.


The pyramids as well. I had a copy of the "original" bit map sent by

the probe, and before it is enhanced, there is really nothing to freak

on. Once enhanced, though, it begins to look like something. 




"the best proof of intelligence out there is that they decided

not to contact us"

Calvin & Hobbes



-- 

 _ ___  __       __ _  | Steven Pigeon

(_  |  (__ \  / (__ |\ | alias Garfield (for my temper, I guess)

__) |  (__  \/  (__ | \| U1625@JSP.UMONTREAL.CA

==Computer Science & Operation Research, Universite de Montreal==

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From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars-face view from Hoaghland concerning Cydonia

Keywords: mars-face

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.194001.25995@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Date: 13 Feb 92 19:40:01 GMT

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Gee, a geomorphologist and someone with NASA connections - these would be great

people to examine the Mars face if only they could spell 'SETI' and 

tetrahedron, if they hadn't filled their paper with technobabble and 

sensationalism, and if they actually gave any details about this huge energy

flux that no one seems to have noticed before.


I'm all for variety of thought and different approaches, but the whole face 

issue would be much more credible if it's believers didn't all come across as

writers for tabloids or folks who sense a conspiracy and don't seem to know

much about they background anyway.


Josh 


Disclaimer:  okay, okay 'An idea is not responsible for those who believe it.'

and I'm sorry I'm taking up all this bandwidth.  I'm just getting tired of the

whole deal.

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From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Whatever Happened to Bill Cooper? (was: Grey Aliens sighted ..again)

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.192005.20795sheaffer@netcom.COM>

Date: 13 Feb 92 19:20:05 GMT

References: <1992Feb10.183334.24034@sun.pcl.ac.uk> <1992Feb11.041107.4504@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Feb11.202017.2352@anasaz>

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In article <1992Feb11.202017.2352@anasaz> billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:


>->>Also what has happened to him for the past two years? 

>He was on a radio program about two years ago in Las Vegas and ran into 

>a buzz saw.  He was so thoroughly discredited by a knowlegeable UFO 

>researcher that he simply faded away.

>->>Has he any plans to do any seminar's in Europe?

>I'm sure if you pay his expenses and anything over $2.00 an hour he'd

>be glad for the attention.


Naah, Cooper is still making the rounds. He was a major honcho at the

"Penomicon" UFOs-and-Conspiracies conference in Atlanta last November.

He gave a couple of "free" talks, but if you wanted to hear more, you

had to pay $20 for some "private" sessions. He also did some TV

interviews, and had scheduled some more expensive all-weekend seminars.

And it looks like he had quite a few "buyers" (one born every minute?).

On one panel, Cooper proclaimed that the "New World Order" would be

a reality in "less than two years". I then pointed out that if all these

nightmare things haven't come to pass by Nov. 2, 1993, then we KNOW

we can safely ignore everything Cooper has to say.


Besides, anyone who's been active in the UFO field for some time

could spot the fallacy in the above: since when has being "discredited"

ever shut anyone up??????? :)

-- 

  

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

  

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",

      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992

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From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories

Subject: Re: Ummo

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.194808.23716sheaffer@netcom.COM>

Date: 13 Feb 92 19:48:08 GMT

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In article <Joe.3302@Phoenix.CAM.ORG> Joe@Phoenix.CAM.ORG (Joe Martinez) writes:

>

>Not quite so... At first I had the same impression. Jean-Pierre Petit

>appeared in an interview for the French magazine "VSD" (in the September

>15th '91 issue I believe), where according to the information given in a

>diagram, the star (Wolf 424) was supposed to be located in the Virgo

>constellation, pretty much between the tip of the two upper arms represented

>by the figure drawn by the Virgo constellation. Then I started searching

>through my two astronomy programs (Distant Suns 4.0 and Voyager on my Amiga)

>and couldn't locate the star in question. Finally, I picked an option from

>Voyager's menu which brings up a 3D view of nearby stars and found it!

>The star goes by the name of "Wolf 424QA" and has a magnitude of 13.2,

>an absolute magnitude of 15.0, at position RA: 12h 33.0m; Dec: +09 deg 07',

>and at a distance of 4.3 parsecs or 14.2 light years. This position places it

>exactly where shown on the diagram and the distance approximates 15 ly.


I don't have any astro books handy, but if this is accurate, you are

describing a white dwarf. Such a star is UTTERLY incapable of supporting

a planet with life.



>

>                                        EARTH                  UMMO

>

>

>non-covered land (by water)             29.2 %               38.16 %

                                                           > would be ICE!

                                                             if white dwarf


>distance from it's sun              149 504 000 km        99 600 000 km

>

>

>temperature                        5 785 deg Kelvin      4 580.3 deg Kelvin

>

>magnitude                                4.73                  7.4

>

>spectral class                            G2                    K

>

>distance from Sun                         --             14.421 light years

>                                                            on 8-7-1967

>

>Note: Magnitude from this table does not match (not by a long shot) that of

>      program database. Also I had no spectral class data from program

>      to compare with table...


I think that the "UMMO" star described above must be the one that

astronomers "haven't noticed" yet. This fellow Petit tried to "fix"

that problem, and brought in Wolf 424, which *has* been "noticed",

but which doesn't fit the Ummit's "data".

-- 

  

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

  

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",

      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992

Path: ns-mx!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!netcomsv!sheaffer

From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>

Date: 13 Feb 92 19:36:59 GMT

References: <109069.299833F3@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Feb13.002517.7758sheaffer@netcom.COM> <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Distribution: na

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Lines: 47


In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>

>Why must you and other "sceptics" insist on equating "UFO's" with

>"ETI"?

>

>If you would dispense with this obsession, true skeptical and scientific

>study of the _phenomenon_ may be possible.

>

>Why do skeptics continue to see the UFO phenomenon as "aliens, ET's,

>and flying saucers", even when that is not brought into the discussion by

>the "other side"?

>

OK, Hynek and Vallee used to bring up this same objection twenty years

ago. And we replied, OK, it doesn't HAVE to be that. What else might it

be, that has little men coming out of a flying craft, and scurrying

about?

 

And they would reply, We dunno what else it could be, 

it's just "unidentified".


So OK, even though in the mind of the public (and MOST UFOlogists),

UFOs = ETI, it MIGHT be something else.

 

UFOs might be time travellers.


UFOs might be from another dimension.


UFOs might be secret Nazi technology, flown from bases at the South Pole.


UFOs might be Jungian "archetypes" projected into existence by the

collective unconsious, etc.


I suppose that any one of these "might" be true. And ANY one of them

would be a mighty important discovery, IF TRUE.


So, all you have to do is to convince astronomers, and other scientists,

that studying UFOs is going to teach us about *anything real*, apart

from human self-deception!!


-- 

  

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

  

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",

      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham

From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Date: 13 Feb 92 22:12:14 GMT

References: <109069.299833F3@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Feb13.002517.7758sheaffer@netcom.COM> <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>

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In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...

>In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>

>>Why must you and other "sceptics" insist on equating "UFO's" with

>>"ETI"?

>>

>>If you would dispense with this obsession, true skeptical and scientific

>>study of the _phenomenon_ may be possible.

>>

>>Why do skeptics continue to see the UFO phenomenon as "aliens, ET's,

>>and flying saucers", even when that is not brought into the discussion by

>>the "other side"?

>>

>OK, Hynek and Vallee used to bring up this same objection twenty years

>ago. And we replied, OK, it doesn't HAVE to be that. What else might it

>be, that has little men coming out of a flying craft, and scurrying

>about?


Are you referring to all UFO events, or only those where witnesses claim

to have seen occupants?


It simply isn't relevant to the debate about studying the _phenomenon_.


What is relevant is that there is an apparent need by many sceptics to

"diminish" the unknown aspects of the phenomenon by constantly alluding

to space aliens and flying saucers.  That Hynek and Vallee both used this

same argument is irrelevant.  In any case, it is true.


Incidentally, are you aware that Vallee became interested in studying this

phenomenon when he found astronomers destroying observation data of UFO

events that they could not explain?


>And they would reply, We dunno what else it could be, 

>it's just "unidentified".

>So OK, even though in the mind of the public (and MOST UFOlogists),

>UFOs = ETI, it MIGHT be something else.

>UFOs might be time travellers.

>UFOs might be from another dimension.

>UFOs might be secret Nazi technology, flown from bases at the South Pole.

>UFOs might be Jungian "archetypes" projected into existence by the

>collective unconsious, etc.


And don't forget: UFOs might all be a perception of mundane events.


And of course: UFOs might be secret military test-aircraft.


But we don't know that.


BTW: I don't believe this was what Jung claimed (that these things were

somehow created by the collective unconscious).  It's true that he alluded

to this, but if you read the remainder of his remarks about this, I think

you'll find that he too, thought that UFO's were a real, physical

phenomenon.  I'll double check this to make sure I didn't misrepresent

this.


>I suppose that any one of these "might" be true. And ANY one of them

>would be a mighty important discovery, IF TRUE.

>So, all you have to do is to convince astronomers, and other scientists,

>that studying UFOs is going to teach us about *anything real*, apart

>from human self-deception!!


No, not necessarily.  The only people that need convincing are those who

might be inquisitive enough to want to know what the phenomenon really,

truly is.  Fortunately, they usually aren't the problem.  


Only those who are interested in establishing the truth

about this phenomenon need apply.


BTW: Has it ever occurred to you that you may be limiting the sciences by

allowing the study of only those things that would contribute to _known_

fields (such as astronomy, biology, etc.)?  Is it not possible that a

study of the _phenomena_ may yield an entirely _new_ science?


Don't misunderstand me.  I'm not implying that we should study the 

phenomenon for the sake of creating a new science.  But, by limiting

our research to those things we already know about or we are sure will

contribute only to _known_ fields is, well...., limiting.


>  

>        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com


Jim Graham - Scepticus Realisticus


        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

                          Neither do they speak for me.

 ______________________________________________________________________

| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

|           dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu                        |

| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |

|            (812) 334-0418, 24hrs.                                    |

|______________________________________________________________________|

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From: behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <behse.698015893@tubue>

Date: 13 Feb 92 21:18:13 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <1992Feb13.130215.18372@jvnc.net>

Sender: news@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de (News  Manager)

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In <1992Feb13.130215.18372@jvnc.net> haught@jvnc.net (Darrell Haught) writes:


>In article <behse.697924019@tubue> behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:

>>Hi,

>>

>>I had posted  the PYRAMIDS.JPG picture in various news-groups.

>>I'm just wondering what You think about the Pyramids on mars ??

>>Did You already take a look at it and what do You think about it ?

>>Only optical delusion or proof of soemthing unexplainable ?

>>Let me know !

>>

>>Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for

>>Decentral Energy Research

>>email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de

>>


>  Is this available in Gif format?



>Darrell

>haught@nisc.jvnc.net



Sorry, Darrell, but the original Scan in GIF-format was about 750 KBytes big,

so I decided to convert this 1021*768*256 big picture to JPEG.

I have also scanned two more pictures from the mentioned book and have put them

on a FTP server. So everybody who wants to have also the other two JPEG pics:

They are called : marsinka.jpg ("inkacity" on mars) and marsface.jpg (close-up

zoom of the face), can mail me their email adress, so I will let You know, where

I did put them. By the way, You can also ask "archie".


But I did ask about what You think about the Pyramids and not about the face !

So do You all still think, these rectangular buildings and shadows are normal

rock formations ? When not let's try to convince the people at NASA and JPL

to have the best pictures from the upcoming MARS OBSERVER probe be taken from

the Cydonia region !!

There was several times mentioned, that no pictures would be taken in this

upcoming flight !? What is the official statement now ?




Here comes an info courtesy of Tom Lane about JPEG-software, where to get it:



If you are looking for "canned" software, viewers, etc:


There is not a lot of pre-built, no-thought-required JPEG software available

yet.  This short list will no doubt grow with time.


For X Windows, John Bradley's XV version 2.00 is an excellent JPEG/GIF viewer.

It's available for FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu or grip.cis.upenn.edu.  The

file is called 'xv-2.00.tar.Z' and is located in the 'contrib' directory on

export or the 'pub' directory on grip.  XV's only real shortcoming is that

it does not fully exploit 24-bit displays (it reduces all images to 8 bits).

If you have a 24-bit display you will get better results from "xloadimage",

which is also available from export, file contrib/xloadimage.3.01.tar.Z.

Version 3.01 does not read JPEG files, but it will read the PPM files put

out by the free JPEG converter described below.  There is also a patched

version called "xli" (see files xli.* in same directory) that does read JPEG

directly.  However, xli is a quick hack rather than an official release;

caveat user.  Another good choice for X Windows is John Cristy's ImageMagick

package, also available from export, file contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z.  The

viewer included in this package handles 24-bit displays correctly; for

colormapped displays, it does better (though slower) color quantization

than XV.


For MS-DOS, Handmade Software offers two (rather pricy) shareware programs:

Image Alchemy and GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF (contact hsi@netcom.com for details).  The

PC versions of these programs are available for FTP from wuarchive.wustl.edu,

directory mirrors/msdos/graphics, files alchmy15.zip and gif2jpg5.zip; also

from SIMTEL20 and its other mirror sites.  (Image Alchemy is also available

as an executable for Sun Unix machines, but I don't know where to find it.)

GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF only perform JPEG<=>GIF format conversion.  Image Alchemy

converts files between these and many other formats, and can also display

images on some types of hardware.  The display option is pretty limited,

so you'll still want a separate viewer program.  (WARNING: GIF2JPG produces

a proprietary file format unless you specify -j.  Be sure to use -j if you

want to exchange JPEG files with other Usenet users.  For that matter, it's

not real clear that you should be posting JPEG files made from GIFs; see

section 5.)


For the Macintosh, Storm Technology has released a free program that can

decode and view JPEG images (though not create them).  This is called

Picture Decompress.  Make sure you get version 2.0.1 or later; earlier

versions are not compatible with JFIF file format.  This program can be

FTPed from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, directory /info-mac/app, file

picture-decompress-201.hqx.  You'll also need a tool for adjusting file type

codes; set the type of a downloaded image file to 'JPEG' to allow Picture

Decompress to open it.


If none of the above fits your situation, you can obtain and compile the

free JPEG converter program described below.  You'll also need a viewer

program, and if your viewer only handles GIF files, you'll want a separate

color quantization program (we recommend ppmquant from the PBMPLUS package

for Unix machines; on PCs, try Piclab).  This last requirement will go away

with the next release of the free code.


There are numerous commercial JPEG offerings, with more popping up every

day.  I recommend that you not spend money on one of these unless you find

the available free or shareware software vastly too slow.  In that case,

purchase a hardware-assisted product.  Ask pointed questions about whether

the product complies with the final JPEG standard and about whether it can

handle the JFIF file format; many of the earliest commercial releases are

not and never will be compatible with anyone else's files.



If you are looking for source code to work with:


Free, portable C code for JPEG compression is available from the Independent

JPEG Group, which I lead.  A package containing our source code,

documentation, and some small test files is available from several places.

The "official" archive site for this source code is ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9

or 192.48.96.9).  Look under directory /graphics/jpeg; the current release

is jpegsrc.v2.tar.Z.  (This is a compressed TAR file; don't forget to

retrieve in binary mode.)  You can retrieve this file by FTP or UUCP.  Folks

in Europe may find it easier to FTP from nic.funet.fi (see directory

pub/graphics/programs/jpeg).  The source code is also available on

CompuServe, in the GRAPHSUPPORT forum (GO PICS), library 10, as jpsrc2.zip.


The free JPEG code provides conversion between JPEG "JFIF" format and image

files in PBMPLUS PPM, Utah RLE, Truevision Targa, and GIF file formats.

(However, output to GIF format is not of high quality at present; ditto for

colormapped Targa and RLE formats.)  The core compression and decompression

modules can easily be reused in other programs, such as image viewers.  The

package is highly portable; we have tested it on many machines ranging from

PCs to Crays.


We have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use.

Companies are welcome to use it as the basis for JPEG-related products.

We do not ask a royalty, although we do ask for an acknowledgement in

product literature (see the README file in the distribution for details).

We hope to make this software industrial-quality --- although, as with

anything that's free, we offer no warranty and accept no liability.


The Independent JPEG Group is a volunteer organization; if you'd like to

contribute to improving our software, you are welcome to join.


If you are not reasonably handy at configuring and installing portable C

programs, you may have some difficulty installing the free source code.

Steve Davis (strat@cis.ksu.edu) has volunteered to maintain an archive of

pre-built executable versions of the free JPEG code for various machines.

His FTP archive is at procyon.cis.ksu.edu (129.130.10.80 -- this number is

due to change soon); look under /pub/JPEG to see what he currently has.

(The administrators of this system ask that FTP traffic be limited to

non-prime hours.)  This archive is not maintained by the Independent JPEG

Group, and files in it may not represent the latest source code.




For more information about JPEG in general or the free JPEG software in

particular, contact the Independent JPEG Group at jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net.


-- 

tom lane

organizer, Independent JPEG Group

Internet: tgl@cs.cmu.edu BITNET: tgl%cs.cmu.edu@carnegie



Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for

Decentral Energy Research

email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de

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From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars-face view from Hoaghland concerning Cydonia

Summary: sheesh

Keywords: mars-face

Message-ID: <21304@dog.ee.lbl.gov>

Date: 13 Feb 92 22:05:49 GMT

References: <behse.697949192@tubue> <1992Feb13.194001.25995@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov

Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA

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Doesn't ANYBODY realize that the Mars face is just an alien ruse to

discredit alternative xenogeomorphology, thus keeping people from

noticing the REAL face -- on Venus?  C'mon, folks.  Surely you've

seen the Magellan image clearly showing the nose of an almost entirely 

buried supine humanoid figure of tremendous size, viewed from the chin?


For horse E.T.s, I recommend the January issue of Car and Driver.


Disclaimer:  I've never been to Sedona (though I have spent plenty

of time in Marin County and Santa Fe) and, in case you are having a

really slow day, am pulling your leg. Or, if you yourself are an

alien, your pseudopod or tentacle or whatever.  

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From: behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal

Subject: Any scanned UFO-GIF-pics available by FTP ?

Summary: ufo gif pics

Keywords: ufo

Message-ID: <behse.698017158@tubue>

Date: 13 Feb 92 21:39:18 GMT

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Hi,

I just wonder, if there is a FTP server out there, which has already stored

any scanned or digitized UFO-GIF-or JPEG-pictures. I mean pictures from real

photos, which were made by people who have watched any UFO-sighting !

If not, why shouldn't we create one ? Is any sysop of a FTP-server is reading

this and is interested to share some disk-space for this topic ?

With pictures to look at, the discussion about UFO-sightings is much more

clear. By the way, I will get soon a few good pictures from a friend and I would

like to put them up anywhere to share them with the people from the net.

let me know.

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for

Decentral Energy Research

email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!mp.cs.niu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289

From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord

Message-ID: <1992Feb14.000927.25613@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Date: 14 Feb 92 00:09:27 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs> <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>

Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)

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jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:


>Yes, I've read "Monuments of Mars", and Hogaland doesn't exactly strike

>me as a "UFO nut" or "kook" or whatever ephithet is going around these

>days. He's (after all) a repected scientist (not that means he couldn't

>be wrong, _but_...) and the book is a reasonably calm, well-researched

>text. His _theories_ about the origin of the Face may be questionable,

>but I for one believe there's SOMETHING weird in Cydonia.

>By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a

>"face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and 

>accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to 

>Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.

> --Tog


>P.S. If it _isn't_ natural... 

I don't see any bilateral symmetry in the picture I've seen at all.  The

left side of the 'face' is in shadow, and for that matter, the shadow

doesn't look like it's being thrown like a face shaped object.  As I 

understand it, the other picture of the face has simliar lighting conditions,

so where did you pull the symmetry from?  Considering the sheer SIZE of Mars,

and the fact that the picture shows only a few features of a 'face' at 

something like 50 meter resolution, I'm surprised there aren't _more_ natural

features that remind you of things.


Josh 'Kumquat' Hopkins

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From: siri@otc.otca.oz (Siri Hewa)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <5054@otc.otca.oz>

Date: 13 Feb 92 23:10:33 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue>

Reply-To: siri@otc.research.otca.oz.au (Siri Hewa)

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Thank you for the Mars.jpg picture as quality of the picture is quite good. I

also got other mars face gif picture which was done on very close up zoom shot.

Now looking at the jpg picture I have to say that area of this picture got

quite few rocks(natural?) which seems to be natural formation. But Mars face

stick out like a sore thumb on this picture. I think only way to get proof of

any sort is to go there in person?.


Siri Hewa.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!mbs110

From: MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St. John Polevaulter)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Summary: A thrilling chase scene with lots of character development

Message-ID: <92044.202712MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu>

Date: 14 Feb 92 01:27:12 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs>

 <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>

 <1992Feb14.000927.25613@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

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In article <1992Feb14.000927.25613@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

says:

>Considering the sheer SIZE of Mars,

>and the fact that the picture shows only a few features of a 'face' at

>something like 50 meter resolution, I'm surprised there aren't _more_ natural

>features that remind you of things.


AHA! That's it!


Forget the Face! Forget the pyramids! Forget the beer can they threw at

Phobos 2, THIS is proof that aliens visited Mars! They must have spent

millenia, scouring the surface, removing every natural feature that might

remind humans of something. Through sheer bad luck they missed the Face,

and... and... and...


Okay, I'll shut up now.


[Your blood pressure just went up.]       Mark Sachs IS: mbs110@psuvm.psu.edu

 DISCLAIMER: Penn State cares about my money, not my opinions.

  "All my father wanted to do was make a toaster you could really set the

    darkness on -- and you perverted his work into those horrible machines!"

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From: keho@quads.uchicago.edu (david kehoe)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars-face view from Hoaghland concerning Cydonia

Keywords: mars-face

Message-ID: <1992Feb14.014130.27576@midway.uchicago.edu>

Date: 14 Feb 92 01:41:30 GMT

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The story I read about the Mars face was much more interesting:

in the late 1940's a Japanese-American sculptor wanted to carve

a giant face out a hill, which would be titled "View of the Face

on Mars."  He didn't get to do it, but he made a model, which

supposedly looks just like the photo from Mars, and the full-sized

sculpture would be the same size as the one one Mars.


I think I read this in that book about the Aztecs that predicted

the harmonic convergance in 1988.  Has anyone else heard this

story?  If it were true I expect it would be widely publicized

by now.

-- 

"Why my thoughts are my own, when they are in, but when they are out

they are another's." - Susanna Martin, executed for witchcraft, 1681.

Thomas David Kehoe  keho@midway.uchicago.edu  (312) 753-0119

Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL

From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb14.061621.7583@cco.caltech.edu>

Date: 14 Feb 92 06:16:21 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs> <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>,<1992Feb13.152533.7634@acsu.buffalo.edu>

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In article <1992Feb13.152533.7634@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v070qg5d@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Eric M Chmiel) writes:

>In article <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes...

>>Yes, I've read "Monuments of Mars", and Hogaland doesn't exactly strike

>>me as a "UFO nut" or "kook" or whatever ephithet is going around these

>>days. He's (after all) a repected scientist (not that means he couldn't

>>be wrong, _but_...) and the book is a reasonably calm, well-researched

>>text. His _theories_ about the origin of the Face may be questionable,

>>but I for one believe there's SOMETHING weird in Cydonia.

>>By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a

>>"face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and 

>>accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to 

>>Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.

>> --Tog

>> 

>>P.S. If it _isn't_ natural... 

>

>   Just out of curiosity....I don't have the picture of the Mars face handy, 

>but I believe almost half the face is obscured in shadow, am I right?  If this

>is so, you are on very shaky ground claiming perfect bilateral symmetry for 

>something that you can only see half of.  The other obscured half may just

>look like a big rock.


And as to "accurate proportions," unless the feature is VERY recent, the face

has WAY too much forehead.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL


Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My

understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So

unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my

organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to

hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin

From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <109504.299B1A8A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 14 Feb 92 00:18:00 GMT

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 > >What is your definition of astronomy?

 >

 > OK, I would be willing to accept "knowledge gained about

 > extraterrestrial

 > visitors" (assuming such to exist) as falling under "astronomy". And I

 > am reasonably confident that any astronomer would, too.

 >

 > Now all the UFOlogists have to do is convince astronomers that they

 > have *anything at all* to teach us about ETI!

 > --

 >

 >         Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com


For the sake of clarity, let us begin by defining what each of us mean by 

"UFOlogist" and "ETI."  Although I have used the term "UFOlogist" in postings, 

etc., I do not recognize that word nor do I think that it is an accepted 

descriptor among astronomers.  I may be wrong, but I have never found that to 

be true.  Second, I assume that the "ETI" represents the "Extra-Terrestrial 

Hypothesis."  Assuming this to be true, I state that since there has never 

been an accepted body of scientific persons convened in any formal manner to 

even postulate such a thing, although Hynek postulated such a thing during his 

time, as well as others in the scientific community, but again, never 

formally.  Thusly, I am not sure that "ETI" could even be intelligently 

discussed at this point.  Going back to the term "UFOlogist," we have such 

personas as Milton William Cooper, John Lear, Budd Hopkins, and a host of 

others, completely without scientific credentials, stating with almost 

absolute conviction that we are dealing with aliens.  But, when it comes down 

to proving such things, there is none.  These people call themselves 

"UFOlogists."  The overall problem here is that we have a group of people who 

are attempting to make sense out of a very complex problem without the ability 

of education, training or discipline.


The study of this phenomena requires a forensic approach.  Forensics, as you 

know, is an accepted science, and is very effective at arriving at the truth 

where certain elements might be missing, changed or altered.  It has been 

proven time and again, so much so, that it is utilized in criminal justice and 

can convict someone of a serious crime.


I also liken the study of UFOs to a person who is ill and in need of medical 

attention.  They have certain symptoms, which when combined, can be any host 

of diseases.  However, they don't go to the next door neighbor for diagnosis 

and treatment of their ailment.  They go to an accredited physician, who, 

after performing certain tests, can usually diagnose and treat the ailment. 

In the case of UFOs, we have a number of people, most credible, reporting 

strange anomalies in the sky, on the ground, some leaving physical traces in 

the form of burn marks, indentations, and so forth, but no one with any 

critical training to interpret the data.  In the entire modern history of the 

reported phenomena, there has never been anything really done to analyze the 

data and intelligently interpret it, although some like Hynek made the effort 

to do so.  To complicate the issue, we have seen it demonstrated that an 

official organ of the United States Government was setting policy to deal with 

the sightings of objects, not from a scientific standpoint, but from a defense 

or militaristic standpoint.  It is well known that although the Air Force 

claimed publicly that UFOs were not real, they contracted for several million 

dollars with such noted institutions as the Battelle Memorial Institute, 

Northrop, and others to scientifically study the phenomena.  But, these 

relationships were defense contract items, not subject to the scrutiny of the 

main-stream scientific community or the general public.  To my knowledge, 

there has never been a report forthcoming from any of these groups concerning 

the findings, or non-findings of their research.  Hynek's chief complaint was 

that the main-stream scientific community was being excluded from the research 

that was being conducted by the "insiders."


Therefore, in my opinion, we must ditch all the past perceptions of the 

phenomena, and approach it with a new outlook.  A formal body of study should 

be convened and the establishment of approved standards enacted to govern the 

research.  This will surely weed out the charlatans that are so common today. 


Mike


--  

Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!tom.delosh@med.umich.edu

From: tom.delosh@med.umich.edu (Tom DeLosh)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Book: Cry of the Phoenix - part 2/18

Message-ID: <j6J+DdB@engin.umich.edu>

Date: 14 Feb 92 18:51:51 GMT

References: <1992Feb9.122724.27118@bilver.uucp>

Distribution: local iex dfw tx usa na world

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In article <1992Feb9.122724.27118@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:

> =====>> Cry Of The Phoenix part 2 <<=============================

>

> <lots 'o stuff deleted>


I suspect that this 'book' was plagiarized from a bottle of Dr. Bronner's

peppermint soap  :)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!john

From: john@anasaz (John Moore)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Crop Circles

Message-ID: <1992Feb13.170623.4481@anasaz>

Date: 13 Feb 92 17:06:23 GMT

Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA

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Keywords: 


In article <1992Feb13.011648.23182@colorado.edu> schiffd@tigger.Colorado.EDU (David M. Schiff) writes:

]There's an interesting article in the Feb. 1, '92 issue of

]Science News (vol. 141) on crop circles.  In fact they chose

]to grace the cover of the issue with a picture of a big, complicated

]crop circle.

]

]   A retired astronomer, named Gerald S. Hawkins, claims that the

]crop designs imply important mathematical theorems.  As I've indicated

]earlier, this is not the first time somebody noticed this.

]The thing that makes this interesting is that these are (according to him)

]previously unknown theorems which he discovered by looking at pictures of

]the designs and later proved. He searched both ancient and modern mathematics

]textbooks but couldn't find anything even resembling these theorems.


The problem I had with the article is that, although it claimed that

the creators of the crop circles had to know those previously unknown

theorems, I could find no evidence of that in the article itself.

Has anyone been able to decrypt the article enough to understand

that conclusion?

-- 

John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)

ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john john@anasaz.UUCP anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu

 - - Tree Hugger's Nightmare: Mt. Graham Red Squirrel Stew ...

 - - Have you ever tried looking at the stars through a squirrel? - - -

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring

From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins

Subject: Alibi Mentality

Keywords: mistake, UFOs, psi, creationism

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-------------------------------------------------------------

When you followup to this, please edit the newsgroups line if

you want to relate only to some of the subjects!

-------------------------------------------------------------


There is common mistake in thinking I call Alibi Mentality,

which can be described like this:


  "The butler has an alibi, the maid has an alibi, the chauffeur

   has an alibi - Sergeant, arrest the gardener!  I didn't like

   that guy, anyway."


That is, one disposes of all possibilities one can think of,

except one (perhaps one's favourite), and declares that the

solution, because it seems to be the only remaining possibility,

without taking into consideration that there could be other

explanations one didn't think of.


This mistake turns up in discussions about UFOs, psi,

creationism, and  probably a lot of other subjects.


In the UFO debate it is an intrinsic component.  When you hear

UFO, you immediately think "alien spaceship".  That way of 

association leads to quotes such as this:


In article <109504.299B1A8A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael Corbin writes:

>[..] although the Air Force

>claimed publicly that UFOs were not real [..]


Note: I don't want to say that Michael made a mistake here, but

that the usage is that way.


Real UFOs, Really Unidentified Flying Objects, contrary to

those flying objects that just *seem* to be unidentified?

No, the meaning is "UFOs that really *are* UFOs, that is, alien

spaceships" (or replace "alien spaceship" with your favourite

explanation).


When you watch psychics reading thoughts, bending knifes, or

telling you things they really shouldn't know, you think a

while for a mundane explanation, and if you don't find any

trick that could have done it (because you are no illusionist)

you think it must have been a paranormal phenomenon.


In December, a long list of pro-creationism arguments was

posted on talk.origins, and some of them ran along the line

"This and that effect you can't explain with evolution".

Even if that had been correct (most of the arguments were just

plain wrong), it would have been no argument in favor of

creationism, but only a disproof of the current model.


This "Alibi Mentality" is clearly a sign of overestimation

of oneself, since it implies that is impossible that there

are explanations one didn't think of.


What do think?

Do you have a better name?

Do you have other examples?


-- 

-Caddy------(thomas kettenring, kaiserslautern, germany)--------

-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth---Stolen

-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth-----from

-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth--Matt G.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!jasonp

From: jasonp@cs.uq.oz.au ( Jason Pouflis)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: I know what's real, don't I?

Message-ID: <6780@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>

Date: 13 Feb 92 10:04:18 GMT

References: <1992Feb12.002547.23168@cadence.com>

Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au

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Lines: 10


Look into something called night terrors.

If I remember correctly,

This is a natural function of the autonomous nervous system,

to wake you so that you can start thinking/breathing/functioning again.


--

Ciao,

Jason


jasonp@cs.uq.oz.au

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb

From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: TEST POST: Please Respond

Message-ID: <9202142126.AA27523@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Date: 14 Feb 92 21:26:26 GMT

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We don't get this newsgroup here at Stratus in California.  I have to use

Email just to get anything posted anywhere as we aren't allowed to post either.

If this makes it in, someone PLEASE Email me ASAP!  I have files that I would

like to send to this group.  Also if someone would be kind enough to possibly

send me a list of topics already covered so far I would be grateful.


Thank You,

Len

Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson

From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars-face view from Hoaghland concerning Cydonia

Message-ID: <5594@shodha.enet.dec.com>

Date: 14 Feb 92 15:09:13 GMT

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In article <1992Feb14.014130.27576@midway.uchicago.edu>, keho@quads.uchicago.edu (david kehoe) writes...

>The story I read about the Mars face was much more interesting:

>in the late 1940's a Japanese-American sculptor wanted to carve

>a giant face out a hill, which would be titled "View of the Face

>on Mars."  He didn't get to do it, but he made a model, which

>supposedly looks just like the photo from Mars, and the full-sized

>sculpture would be the same size as the one one Mars.



        Well it's a BS story because this supposed face on Mars was only 

        photgraphed for  the  first  time by satallite orbiting Mars.  No

        telescope in existance then or now can photograph this "HILL."


        STeve

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spdcc!rdonahue

From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <1992Feb15.031707.29226@spdcc.com>

Date: 15 Feb 92 03:17:07 GMT

References: <9202142304.AA28308@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Organization: insert anything here

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lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363) writes:

>    The following posting is a summary written by my friend and

>    co-worker, Drew LePage, of an article in the January 1992 issue of 

>    the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS), Volume 45, 

>    Number 1.  Titled "An Estimate of the Prevalence of Biocompatible 

>    and Habitable Planets", it is authored by M. J. Fogg.

>   ########################################################################

>


    All well and good except if you're looking for life you have

to eliminate all the stars younger than about 3 Gyr...  That limits

things quite a bit...  Exorcising the stars with low probabilities

(from the other contraints...)...


>  Name            Distance (LY)    Type    Habitable    Biocompatible

>  Alpha Centauri A       4.38        G2V       7.8%            44%

>  Alpha Centauri B       4.38        K6V       4.4%            38%

    These two are old (7Gyr)


>  Epsilon Eridani      10.69        K2V       0.6%            34%

    Too young - only 1 Gyr


>  61 Cygni A          11.17        K5V       0.0%         5.8%

>  61 Cygni B          11.17        K7V       0.0%         0.3%

    These two are weird astrophysically.  Although they are a "real" 

double system, they don't act alike age-wise in a couple of different

ways... Of course they're almost M stars, so the rules that you apply

for solar-like stars gets stretched a little thin by the time you get to 

this red...  Age-wise, they're intermediate 2-3 Gyr...


>  Tau Ceti          11.95        G8V       1.5%            35%

    Another weird star...  activity-wise its one of the least 

chromospherically active stars, and most certainly so for stars later

than G5...  Probably old --- 3-4 Gyr.


>  70 Ophiuchi A          16.73        K1       4.4%            38%

>  70 Ophiuchi B          16.73        K6       0.0%            16%

    Too young... (~1 Gyr)


>  36 Ophiuchi A          17.73        K0V       0.0%            28%

>  36 Ophiuchi B          17.73        K1V       0.0%            27%

>  36 Ophiuchi C          17.73        K5V       0.0%         9.0%

    too young... (~1 Gyr)


>  HR 7703 A          18.43        K3V       0.0%            27%

    don't know


>  Sigma Draconis      18.53        K0V       1.5%            35%

    Not bad, actually - just under 3.0Gyr


>  Delta Pavonis          18.64        G5       5.1%            39%

    don't know


>  Eta Cassiopeiae A      19.19        G0V       3.9%            38%

    Pretty good --- 4.6 Gyr


>  82 Eridani          20.9        G5       4.4%            38%

    don't know


>  Beta Hydri          21.3        G1       7.5%            35%

    This one is old - something like 9Gyr...


>  HR 8832          21.4        K3       0.0%            23%

    don't know


    I don't see Zeta 1,2 Ret (6Gyr?) on this list, nor HD 81809 (5 Gyr?) 

both of which are "good" candidates mass/age-wise...  Both are also binaries,

but are well-separated.  I'm sure there are others, HD 141004 (Lambda Ser)

comes to mind...  HD 12235, but that's also weird (some people think it's 

a subgiant [old] others think it's very young...)...  HD 103095 (grmb 1830)

is definitely old...


Ages are estimated from rotation and/or chromospheric emission...

Not perfect, but not bad to 1Gyr or so... younger stars are easier

to pick off than older ones...


As you can see --- you can whittle down the list fairly quickly

even among G stars...  But there are still some physically "good

candidates" although no star yet has been found that matches the Sun

all that well!  (So much for the Astro 101 textbook addage 'the Sun is

a typical run-of-the-mill G dwarf...).


BD

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-mic!mvs.oac.ucla.edu!CSYSPCN

From: CSYSPCN@mvs.oac.ucla.edu (CSYSPCN)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality

Message-ID: <19920214090402CSYSPCN@mvs.oac.ucla.edu>

Date: 14 Feb 92 17:08:06 GMT

References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de>

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>

>What do think?

>Do you have a better name?

>Do you have other examples?

>


I like it, it rings true.  I don't have a better name, but I've heard

a more restricted varient called "Our Ancestors - the dummys" which

is applied by those who assume that ancient cultures couldn't have

had engeneering skills sufficient to build the pyramids, etc.


A related varient that I call Barnums Razor goes: Given two equally

likely hypothisis choose the one whith the highest Gee-Wiz factor.

So a UFO becomes an alien spaceship, rather than an unidentified

phenomenon of local origin.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!amdcad!netcomsv!sheaffer

From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <1992Feb14.232049.22336sheaffer@netcom.COM>

Date: 14 Feb 92 23:20:49 GMT

References: <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Distribution: na

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

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In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>Are you referring to all UFO events, or only those where witnesses claim

>to have seen occupants?

Any explanation for the supposed phenomenon must be able to accomodate

all aspects of it. Therefore, any explanation for UFOs insufficiently bizarre

to account for "little men coming out of flying craft" simply won't

do. Except, of course, for the 'null hypothesis': "all those wonderful

but unsubstantiated stories are not true."


>What is relevant is that there is an apparent need by many sceptics to

>"diminish" the unknown aspects of the phenomenon by constantly alluding

>to space aliens and flying saucers.  


Excuse me, what is the *name* of this newsgroup?


Was it a skeptic that named it?


Is it skeptics that fill it with lurid tales of encounters with man-eating

Grays???


>

>Incidentally, are you aware that Vallee became interested in studying this

>phenomenon when he found astronomers destroying observation data of UFO

>events that they could not explain?


Yes, this *sounds* so abominable, but as I heard him explain this, what

I heard him really say was: 'there was this data on a tape that I

wanted to keep, but they wanted to re-use the tape'. So excuse me if I'm

not convinced it's as sinister as you suggest.

-- 

  

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

  

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",

      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992

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From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <1992Feb14.233017.23110sheaffer@netcom.COM>

Date: 14 Feb 92 23:30:17 GMT

References: <109504.299B1A8A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Lines: 15


Fine. If you can convince the Congress, the President, the National

Academy of Sciences, or whoever, that some "fresh look" at UFOs

is either necessary or desirable, the go for it.

  

But you'd better have something NEW to offer up, because the same old

Virtual Evidence is getting pretty stale after nearly forty-five years.


-- 

  

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

  

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",

      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992

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From: pisces@cs.mcgill.ca (L. M. P. McPherson)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins

Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality

Keywords: mistake, UFOs, psi, creationism

Message-ID: <1992Feb15.033429.8688@cs.mcgill.ca>

Date: 15 Feb 92 03:34:29 GMT

References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de>

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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20564 alt.paranormal:4377 alt.alien.visitors:4432 talk.origins:14906


In article <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de> kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes:

>

>There is common mistake in thinking I call Alibi Mentality,

>which can be described like this:

>

>That is, one disposes of all possibilities one can think of,

>except one (perhaps one's favourite), and declares that the

>solution, because it seems to be the only remaining possibility,

>without taking into consideration that there could be other

>explanations one didn't think of.


>Do you have a better name?


I believe another name for this is the "fallacy of the false dilemma." It is

an either/or mentality. If creationism is wrong, then evolution is right

(or vice versa). This error pervades all areas of science, and leads to much

fruitless discussion. There are always possibilities other than those we

have considered, and more often than not, the correct path is one upon which

we have never trod. One can never find support for one theory by crushing

others! One has to address the predictions of the theory itself.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy

From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?  NOT!

Message-ID: <q1-hsbk@lynx.unm.edu>

Date: 15 Feb 92 06:43:13 GMT

References: <9202142258.AA28258@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Lines: 64


In article <9202142258.AA28258@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363) writes:

>

>

>THE CHAIRMAN'S CORNER                                      BY JOHN FORD

>

>

>                          SOMETHING IS COMING OUR WAY!

>

>

>      This is such a story.  As yet no evidence exists to support it, yet I

>have a gut feeling that something might be to it.  Only time will tell if the

>evidence or a coming event will prove its veracity.


     No evidence?  Then what's this below?


>

>      It seems that in 1987, NASA picked up the presence of a very large

>planetoid object entering our solar system near the area of Pluto.  It was

>first detected by Voyager and later confirmed by telescope observations both

>radio and optical.  The object is very large, measuring over a thousand miles

>in diameter or even larger.


    Which Voyager?  I don't think either of them would be able to do

 this.



>

>      The object has been under constant observation since.  It was last

>reported in the area of Jupiter.  That last position was of January of this

>year.  It was observed to be leaving a very long Ionization trail behind it.

>The object has made at least three mid course corrections, by the way.


     Boy, no evidence, but it's made three course changes?  Where is

 this crap coming from?


>

>concealed by public announcements that the missions are being deployed to

>photograph distant stars or the Sun's corona.  The Hubble telescope doesn't

>work and needs to be repaired, yet it is pointed straight out there and can

>return pictures through computer enhancement.


    The Hubble does work.  Has for a while.  It just doesn't work

 to its original specs.

 


>

>      I have had the story confirmed by George Dickson and Mike Crystal,

>(Christol, my corrected spelling) both reputable U.F.O. Researchers of

                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>impeccable reputation, through independent contacts in the


   Sounds like an oxymoron.


>      The object may soon be seen by the average person as time advances.  It

>may not be so easy then to conceal the truth from the public.

>

   With such EVIDENCE, it may not be so easy to keep a straight face.



-- 

                   Phred Platypus [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ]           

"Technology is a way of organizing    \    

the universe so that man doesn't       \   The Grammarian of Vengeance

have to experience it."   -- Max Frisch \  

Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb

From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Something Wicked This Way Comes?

Message-ID: <9202142258.AA28258@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Date: 14 Feb 92 22:58:57 GMT

Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU

Lines: 223



Sorry if some of this has been here before. Some of this is new.

Len

===============================================================================



Thu 30 May 91 19:29

By: Mike Christol

Re: Something is Coming

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following information is taken directly form the April issue of The Long

Island U.F.O. Update, the monthly bulletin for the Long Island UFO Network.


THE CHAIRMAN'S CORNER                                      BY JOHN FORD



                          SOMETHING IS COMING OUR WAY!


      In Ufology, you hear a lot of strange stories.  Some you have to take

at face value, while others are too far fetched to believe even in this

strange study of unusual objects and humanoid beings.  Some stories you mark

off as holding merit, but lack supporting evidence to bolster their

credability until a later date when something might surface which could prove

their validity.


      This is such a story.  As yet no evidence exists to support it, yet I

have a gut feeling that something might be to it.  Only time will tell if the

evidence or a coming event will prove its veracity.


      It seems that in 1987, NASA picked up the presence of a very large

planetoid object entering our solar system near the area of Pluto.  It was

first detected by Voyager and later confirmed by telescope observations both

radio and optical.  The object is very large, measuring over a thousand miles

in diameter or even larger.


      The object has been under constant observation since.  It was last

reported in the area of Jupiter.  That last position was of January of this

year.  It was observed to be leaving a very long Ionization trail behind it.

The object has made at least three mid course corrections, by the way.


      That is peculiar for a planetoid object like an asteroid to do.  It

sounds as if it is not what it appears to be.  It sounds like it is under

intelligent control.  Its orbit will bring it into Earth's orbit by late 1992

or early 1993.  What it is, is anyone's guess.


      Linda Moulton Howe has reported this story to us.  She had it confirmed

by a Pentagon Military Officer.  The story relayed to her indicates that the

Government is keeping it a secret and is tracking it through the auspices of

the Jet Propulsion Laboratories and McDonald Douglas' facilities.  The object

is being tracked by the Hubble telescope and several of the recent infra-red

telescopes recently lofted by various Space Shuttle Missions.  All of this

concealed by public announcements that the missions are being deployed to

photograph distant stars or the Sun's corona.  The Hubble telescope doesn't

work and needs to be repaired, yet it is pointed straight out there and can

return pictures through computer enhancement.


      I have had the story confirmed by George Dickson and Mike Crystal,

(Christol, my corrected spelling) both reputable U.F.O. Researchers of

impeccable reputation, through independent contacts in the

Scientific-Military establishment.


      The object may soon be seen by the average person as time advances.  It

may not be so easy then to conceal the truth from the public.


      Consider this too.  Our Moon's orbit has condensed by three thousand

miles while the Earth's axis has tilted slightly as if pushed ever so gently

by the invisible hand of a tremendous gravitational field.  Have you noticed

the strange weather patterns we have been having lately?


     U.F.O. Abductees recount their experiences with the authority that

something very big will happen in the next several years.  Whatever it is,

they can't recall it, but they know the event will occur.


      Is something coming our way?  Is this one of those stories to mark

away?


                                -END-


Now, the "official" word is that SS433 (Stephenson-Saundeleak) is

a very odd-behaviour type pulsar...but it would appear, that this

is a cover for the above-mentioned article. This article,BTW, appeared

on the MUFONET HQ BBS and Mike Christol is a very credible/reliable

MUFON investigator. 

 

However, this is such a *hot* topic, that even a glancing mention of

this on either the UFO echoes of the BBS world, or the Internet will most

certainly guarantee you a gold class invite to a royal flaming.


Have you figured out how the Govt intends to do this?

 

Here's a clue...

 

Project SETI has been chosen to be the point organization that will

announce to the world a "discovery"..it will be that they have

established communication with an "alien race" (the lower Greys). The

Greys will "land" at either Whitesands in NM, or at Area 51 in Nevada.

 

(e.g. an effect like a low efficiency rocket). This in turn would perturb the

comet orbits, resulting in a "comet shower" of the sort associated with the

extenction of the dinasours. (That is, a large number of comets, whose orbit

now carries them into the inner solar system, and a resulting increase in the

probability of comet inpacts with the Earth).

A local amature astronomer, John Hewitt(sp?), has written a paper on the 

subject. He is also of the five amature astronomers to recieve observing time

on the Space Telescope, to look for a similar vaporization (and UV glow) from

hypothetical comets around the next, nearby nova.


Frank Crary

UC Berkeley



Article 15719 of sci.astro:

Subject: Mystery Object of Thursday, 12/5

Message-ID: <TOM.91Dec11120040@kether.webo.dg.com>

Date: 11 Dec 91 18:00:40 GMT

Sender: usenet@webo.dg.com (Usenet Administration)

Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp.

Lines: 73

Xref: lassie sci.astro:15719



I've seen nothing on the net regarding this, but I found this in the

Globe:


Without permission from the Boston Globe, 12/7, page 13:


Mystery object eludes astronomers


By David L. Chandler, Globe Staff


The unidentified object that hurtled past Earth before dawn on

Thursday remains a mystery, astronomers said yesterday, and it

apparently slipped by without them getting a good look.

A week ago, astronomers had decided that the tiny object,

which passed slightly farther away from Earth than the moon's distance

of 240,000 miles, was probably an asteroid -- a chunk of

interplanetary rock probably less than 30 feet across [BUT, read on!].

But observations on Monday by European astronomers working in

Chile showed dramatic variations in brightness which suggest an

irregularly shaped, tumbling object with great variations in its

surface reflectivity, much more so than expected for a natural object

like an asteroid, said Brian Marsden, an astronomer.

Marsden, director of the Cambridge-based International

Astronomical Union's Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams and Minor

Planet Center, said yesterday that the variation in brightness "means

we are dealing with some very peculiar object.  I would say man-made.

I think it wold be hard to explain this kind of variation with a

natural object, even a small one."

But Marsden and others are still puzzling over what kind of

man-made object it is.

Marsden said two weeks ago that it was probably the leftover

Centaur rocket used in 1974 to launch a sun-observing satellite called

Helios.  But more precise calculations of the object's orbit, based on

the latest observations, show that, traced backwards, it never quite

meets Earth, as it should if it had been launched from Earth.

There is a possible explaination for that descrepancy, Marsden

said:  Centaur rockets sometimes contain leftover hydrogen fuel after

they reach orbit, and this fuel could continue to leak out, perhaps

for years.  This could propel the rocket in unpredictable directions,

like air escaping from a balloon that send it careening aound a room.

During its closest approach to Earth on Thursday, the object

was too far south to be visible from anywhere in the northern

hemisphere.  Astronomers at the European Southern Observatory in Chile

tried to get pictures of it shortly after its closest approach in

order to get more precise data on its exact path and to make further

measurements of its brightness variations.

But as of yesterday, they were unable to find any sign of the

object in their pictures.

Because of the difficulty of the observation and the faintness

of the object, astronomers Richard West and Oliver Hainaut at the

observatory in the Chilean Andes continued to examine their images

carefully yesterday.

These observations are essential to guarantee the success of a

planned radar observation of the object when it returns to visibility

in the northern hemisphere next week.  A successful radar observations

"would clinch it" as to whether the object is natural or artificial,

Marsden said.

"I was hoping it would be natural," said Marsden, because that

would make it a very unusual type of asteroid and the smallest ever

detected, and therefore interesting to astronomers.  But because of

the brightness changes seen this week, he is now "90 percent sure"

that it is artificial.

Because of the uncertain movements of a rocket leaking

leftover fuel, however, it may never be possible to identify it as a

specific rocket.

If it is artificial but not any known rocket, that might

explain the astronomers' inability to locate it in their pictures,

Marsden joked.

"Maybe that's why they couldn't be found last night," he said.

"Maybe they landed."



Tom


Article 17219 of sci.astro:

Path: lassie!voder!pyramid!gossip.pyramid.com!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpl-opus!hpnmdla!hpsad!paulc

From: paulc@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Paul Christensen X3073)

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Wheres the Bolide?

Message-ID: <1700006@hpsad.sad.hp.com>

Date: 11 Feb 92 06:54:18 GMT

Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA

Lines: 16


Hey all!


I heard in Dec that there was a large (3mi diam) object coming toward

earth... Some guy from NASA was saying that it was about

a year away.. He called it something like Tutautus???? 


Anyone up on this stuff? 


If so, How close will it get??? <shiver>

(Where's my ticket to MARS??)



+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

| Paul Christensen        |     Email( Unix ) paulc@hpsad.sad.hp.com    |

| (707)794-3073           |     HPDESK Paul Christensen / HP5300/A0     |

+---------------------- HP MicroElectronics ----------------------------+  



----- End Included Message -----

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From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Testable Unified Field and Electromagnetics

Message-ID: <9202142300.AA28268@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Date: 14 Feb 92 23:00:20 GMT

Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU

Lines: 911


Article 22901 of sci.physics:

Path: lassie!voder!apple!netcomsv!noring

From: noring@netcom.COM (Jon Noring)

Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics

Subject: "On a Testable Unification of EM, GR, and QM" by T.E. Bearden (LONG)

Message-ID: <1992Feb04.074857.9686noring@netcom.COM>

Date: 4 Feb 92 07:48:57 GMT

Followup-To: alt.sci.physics.new-theories

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Lines: 896

Xref: lassie sci.physics:22901



[This paper appeared in the 26th IECEC Conference, as past posts have

mentioned.  Posted with the permission of T.E. Bearden.  See my prior

post for more information.  J.Noring]




ON A TESTABLE UNIFICATION OF ELECTROMAGNETICS, GENERAL RELATIVITY, AND

QUANTUM MECHANICS


T. E. Bearden

Association of Distinguished American Scientists

2311 Big Cove Road

Huntsville, Alabama 35801


Walter Rosenthal

4876 Bethany Lane

Santa Maria, California 93455



Abstract


Unrecognized for what it was, in 1903-1904 E.T. Whittaker (W) published a

fundamental, engineerable theory of electrogravitation (EG) in two profound

papers.  The first (W-1903) demonstrated a hidden bidirectional EM wave

structure in the scalar potential of vacuum, and showed how to produce a

standing scalar EM potential wave -- the same wave discovered experimentally

four years earlier by Nikola Tesla.  W-1903 is a hidden variable theory that

shows how to deterministically curve the local and/or distant space-time using

EM.  W-1904 shows that all force field EM can be replaced by interferometry

of two scalar potentials, anticipating the Aharonov-Bohm effect by 55 years

and extending it to the engineerable macroscopic world.  W-1903 shows how to

turn EM into G-potential, curve local and/or distant space-time, and directly

engineer the virtual particle flux of vacuum.  W-1904 shows how to turn

G-potential and curvature of space-time back into force-field EM, even at a

distance.  The papers implement Sakharov's 1968 statement that gravitation is

not a fundamental field of nature, but a conglomerate of other fields.

Separately applied to electromagnetics (EM), quantum mechanics (QM), and

general relativity (GR), an extended superset of each results.  The three

supersets are Whittaker-unified, so that a testable, engineerable, unified

field theory is generated.  EM, QM, and GR each contained a fundamental error

that blocked unification, and these three errors are explained.  The

Schroedinger potential can also be structured and altered, indicating the

direct engineering of physical quantum change.  Recently Ignatovich has

pointed out this hidden bidirectional EM wave structure in the Schroedinger

potential, without referencing Whittaker's 1903 discovery of the basic effect.

The potential for applying the new approach to explain the nature of mind and

thought, and providing a laboratory-testable theory for them, is briefly

noted and indicative major references cited.  Some of the possible

implications for physics and biology are pointed out.


Electromagnetics Has Foundations Difficulties


There exists today a small but growing number of scientists who have become

aware that the presently accepted electromagnetic theory is seriously flawed.

Shortcomings in the theory are readily cited.  For example, in railgun

experiments the Lorentz force law has been falsified.  It was always an

approximation, and does not adequately approximate at high energies. [ref. 1]


Also completely contrary to orthodox EM theory, the EM force fields are not

primary agents at all, but are effects produced in and on the physical system

by the potentials.  As an example, we cite the Aharonov-Bohm (AB) effect,

which proves that, even in the total absence of the force fields, the

potentials remain and can interfere at a distance to produce real effects in

charged particle systems. [ref. 2]  The AB effect has been proven to the

satisfaction of all but the most diehard skeptics. [ref. 3]  However, its

fundamental impact on the basic notions underlying classical EM theory

continues to be ignored by all but a handful of scientists.


These EM shortcomings were not present in the original quaternion EM theory

by James Clerk Maxwell. [ref. 4]  Indeed, the original Maxwell theory

contains many things that were mistakenly eliminated from the abbreviated

vector theory formulated primarily by Heaviside and Gibbs, and to a lesser

extent by Hertz. [ref. 5]  Further, these things that do not exist in

conventional EM theory, but that exist in Maxwell's actual quaternion theory,

can be used in specially designed equipment, and the operation of that

equipment will be inexplicable by present-day electromagnetic theory.

AB-effect laboratory apparatuses are in fact rigorous demonstrations of such

a statement.



Scalar Electromagnetics


This can be even further explained and developed experimentally according to

Whittaker's fundamental approach. [ref. 6]  In a modern sense, in 1903/1904

Whittaker theoretically showed how to engineer the scalar potential with a

highly dynamic, hidden, bidirectional EM wave structure, to build hidden EM

vacuum engines that are still unsuspected in modern physics today.  Much of

the content of the fundamental 1959 Aharonov/Bohm paper was anticipated in a

different manner, and dramatically extended in an engineerable, testable

fashion, by Whittaker's two papers.  At the time, however, the vector


                                                                           

  phi(x)  |                                                                    

          |                                                                    

          |                                                                  

          |                                                                   

          |                                                                   

          |                                                                   

Potential |              +   +                                                 

          |          +           +                                             

          |       +                 +                                          

          |     +         EM          +                                           

          |   +      Substructure       +                                      

          |  +                           +                                      

          | +                             +                                      

          |+_______________________________+_______________________________+__

                                            +                             +

                                             +            EM             +

                                              +      Substructure       +

                                                +                     +

                                                  +                 +

                                                     +           +

                                                         +   +


Figure 1.  A Standing Scalar EM Potential Whittaker Wave.



interpretation of Maxwell's EM theory was just slowly beginning to spread as

the adopted model.  Also, special and general relativity and quantum

mechanics had not yet been born.  Accordingly, considering the scientific

understanding of the day, it was not possible for any scientist, even

Whittaker himself, to perceive the potential future impact these fundamental

papers could have on sciences and technologies not yet even born.

Unfortunately, in later years Whittaker apparently never realized that his

two earlier papers had such application to the modern unification problem.

Indeed, up to the time of Whittaker's death, very few scientists even

concerned themselves with the notion of unified fields.



Turning EM Energy Into G-Potential Energy


In his 1903 paper Whittaker showed that a standing scalar potential wave can

be decomposed into a special set of bidirectional EM waves that convolute

into a standing scalar potential wave, as shown in Figure 1.  As a corollary,

a set of bidirectional EM waves, stress waves, can be constructed to form a

standing scalar potential wave in space, as shown in Figure 2.  Since all

potentials represent trapped energy density of vacuum, they are gravitational



[Note, Figure 2 is too complicated to reproduce here in ASCII]


Figure 2.  Whittaker's Bidirectional EM Plane Wave Structure.



in nature. [ref. 7]  Because it represents a "standing wave" whose magnitude

represents the variation in the local energy density of the vacuum, the

Whittaker scalar potential wave represents a standing wave of variation in

the local curvature of vacuum, sharply in contradiction to the assumptions of

present electromagnetics and general relativity. [ref. 8]  It also represents

a standing wave of the variation of the local gauge.



Turning G-Potential Back to EM


The very next year, Whittaker's second paper (cited above) showed how to turn

such G-potential wave energy back into EM energy, even at a distance, by

scalar potential interferometry, anticipating and greatly expanding the

Aharonov-Bohm effect.  Indeed, Whittaker's second paper shows that the entire

present force-field electromagnetics can be directly replaced with scalar

potential interferometry.  In other words, scalar EM includes and extends the

present restricted vector subset of Maxwell's original theory.



Engineering the Nucleus Directly


Whittaker's work is even more striking when one realizes that potentials are

actually part of the vacuum itself.  They pervade through the electron shells

of an atom, directly reaching the nucleus and centering on it.  Gross

external changes (gradients; force fields) of the potentials interact

primarily with the electron shells of the atom.  The stabilized (persistent,

gradient-free) potential's primary interaction is with the atomic nucleus.

Specifically, the primary interaction between the infolded, internalized EM

bidirectional wave structure of a Whittaker potential is with the atomic

nuclei, rather than with the atom's electron shells, because in the standing

Whittaker potential wave the local magnitude of the external potential is not

changing.  Whittaker has in fact shown that there exists an unsuspected,

hidden, internal EM energy exchange channel between nuclei, a channel where

EM energy flows bidirectionally, undetected by most modern detectors.

Unlimited types of Whittaker-structures can be produced in the laboratory in

the form of deterministically structured potentials; for the first time, the

direct engineering, structuring, and manipulation of the nuclear potentials

themselves, even with miniscule EM power, is possible.  This is a new

capability of exceptional importance and application.  The Whittaker

structuring in effect allows one to produce a "virtual grid" to place in the

violent virtual particle flux (VPF) exchange of the local vacuum with the

nucleus.  By simply holding the grid signal constant, gradually the nuclear

potential itself will substructure (activate) with the same structure.  When

the activating ("charging") potential is removed, the activation of the

nucleus will gradually "decay" back to the normal structure.  Just as one

example, the binding energy of an atomic nucleus is accessible and,

theoretically, engineerable.



Whittaker Structuring Confirmed


Recently Ignatovich has pointed out the hidden bidirectional EM wave

structure in the Schroedinger potential, without referencing Whittaker's 1903

discovery of the basic effect. [ref. 9]  Also, recently modern researchers,

working on acoustic missiles and with the scalar acoustic wave equation, have

"rediscovered" Whittaker's 1903 infolded bidirectional planar waves inside

the scalar wave. [ref. 10]  They do not appear to have yet recognized its

relevance to their work in electromagnetic missiles. [ref. 11]



STOCHASTIC ELECTRODYNAMICS


Whittaker's paper takes on a significant new meaning, however, in light of

Sakharov's 1968 hypothesis that gravitation is not a primary field, but is

produced as a result of interactions of other fields.  Together with

Whittaker's structured potential, this implies that the gravitational aspects

of the nucleus can also be electromagnetically engineered.  As a result of

Sakharov's hypothesis, explosive activity in stochastic electrodynamics (SED)

has shown that many fundamental parts of physics are "already unified" in

terms of electromagnetics and gravitation.  Evidence continues to accumulate

that the gravitational field may not be a primary field of nature, but a

secondary or residual effect associated with other non-gravitational fields.

[ref. 12]   Actually, general relativity has always focused on energy as the

thing which really has gravitation.  Trapped energy, such as mass, is

particularly important.  But since mass is essentially trapped EM energy,

relativity has essentially assumed Sakharov's hypothesis anyway, without

stating it so explicitly.  Further, GR considers "the" G-potential as a

conglomerate of other things. [ref. 13]  It follows that the gradient of that

conglomerate yields a force field which is also a conglomerate.



G-Potential is Electromagnetic


Starting from Sakharov's postulate, to the first order gravitation should be

due to some aspect of the EM field, since EM is the strongest and most

universal force normally encountered in the macroscopic world experimentally,

and since mass is already "trapped EM energy."  Thus Sakharov focused

attention upon the zero-point EM energy fluctuations (ZPF) of vacuum.

Sakharov conjectured that the Lagrange function of the G-field is generated

by vacuum polarization, due to fermions. [ref. 14]  Akama et al examined the

potential generation of gravity as a collective excitation of fermion-

antifermion pairs. [ref. 15]   Haxlacher and Mottolo proved that space-time

(ST) curvature can arise from the quantum fluctuations of pure gauge fields.

[ref. 16]   Zee showed that gravity is generated as a symmetry-breaking

effect in quantum field theory in which a dynamical scale-invariance breaking

is postulated to take place at energies near the Planck mass. [ref. 17]

Amati, Veneziano and Yoshimoto showed that in pre-geometric models the

Einstein action and metric may be generated from quantum fluctuations of

matter fields. [ref. 18]   A review of the exploding field was given by

Adler, with particular emphasis on the case of renormalizable field theories

with dynamical scale-invariance breaking, in which the induced gravitational

effective action is finite and calculable. [ref. 19] 



Puthoff's Important Contribution


Recently Puthoff has applied the Sakharov viewpoint to significantly advance

the stochastic electrodynamics field.  He has successfully explained why the

atom's orbital electrons do not decay into the nucleus, even though by

conventional EM theory each electron must constantly radiate EM energy, since

it is constantly accelerated. [ref. 20]  He has also shown that gravitation

can indeed be regarded as an induced effect associated with zero-point EM

fluctuations of the vacuum. [ref. 21]  He has also shown a feedback-

derivation of the source of the vacuum EM zero-point energy fluctuations

from quantum fluctuation motion of particles driven by the ZPE. [ref. 22]

Quantum fluctuation motion of particles and vacuum ZPE fluctuations are

connected by a causal, self-regenerating cosmological feedback cycle.



Some Conclusions


In light of Whittaker's EM structuring of the potential, there are several

important conclusions to be taken from the important SED work since

Sakharov's seminal suggestion, as follows: (1) In stochastic electrodynamics,

very solid theoretical foundation exists for electrogravitation.  (2) The

vacuum EM ZPF may be regarded as causally connected to quantum mechanical

particle jitter (Zitterbewegung motion) and vice versa, though the feedback

mechanism into the virtual particle flux of vacuum is normally hidden by the

large-scale integration represented by any macroscopic object or process.

(3) The SED theoretical demonstration of this hidden mechanism adds new

emphasis on the rather neglected hidden variable theories.  (4) In some

fashion, statistical quantum change is chaotic rather than random, for it has

already been shown by Puthoff that the vacuum ZPF fluctuations driving

everything are totally deterministic.  It follows that, theoretically, hidden

Whittaker order already exists in quantum change, and quantum change must be

already chaotic and at least partially deterministic.  (5) It follows that

there may well exist engineerable mechanisms that can affect or manipulate

quantum change.



Whittaker Potentials Are Engineerable


What Whittaker has described in his 1903 paper is a standing

electrogravitational wave, a standing wave in the local curvature of

space-time itself, that can readily be constructed experimentally.  This

Whittaker standing potential wave is precisely the new form of standing EM

wave that Nikola Tesla had experimentally discovered being radiated from a

thunderstorm four years earlier, on the night of July 3-4, 1899, and which he

recorded in his Colorado Springs Notebook on the morning of July 4, 1899.

[ref. 23]   Further, Whittaker's paper directly implies that the hidden

variable determinism shown by Puthoff to be driving the zero-point EM

fluctuations can also be engineered, both locally and at a distance.


In short, Whittaker's 1903 paper shows how to turn electromagnetics into

gravitational potential.  Unknowingly, Whittaker had already shown the

correct engineering way to unify EM and G fields, and already falsified one

of Einstein's later primary GR assumptions, that the local space-time is never

curved, in a testable manner, a decade before Einstein published his theory

of general relativity.


In the very next year, 1904, Whittaker's second paper (orally presented in

1903) was published. [ref. 24]  In this little-noticed paper Whittaker shows

that all classical force field electromagnetics can be replaced by scalar EM

potentials and their interferometry.  Specifically, any EM force field can be

replaced by two scalar potential fields and scalar interferometry.  The

combination of this paper and the 1903 Mathematische Annalen paper not only

includes the Aharonov-Bohm effect, but specifies a testable method for

producing a macroscopic and controlled Aharanov-Bohm effect, even at large

distances. [ref. 25]



PRESENT ELECTROMAGNETIC THEORY IS INCOMPLETE


As stated above, Maxwell's original EM theory was written in quaternions,

which are an extension to the complex number theory and an independent

system of mathematics.  In short, since the quaternion is a hypernumber,

Maxwell's theory was a hyperspatial theory, not just the limited three-

dimensional subset that was extracted and expressed by Heaviside and Gibbs

in terms of an abbreviated, incomplete vector mathematics. [ref. 26]



Heaviside and Gibbs Curtailed Maxwell's Theory


Oliver Heaviside was a brilliant, self-taught genius who never formally

attained a university degree, and whose papers were printed in technical

magazines rather than scientific journals.  When Maxwell published his

Treatise in 1873, Heaviside was just teaching himself differential equations.

Heaviside's imagination was completely seized by Maxwell's book, and Maxwell

forever became his hero.  However, he had great difficulty with quaternions

and could not completely tolerate them.



Electrogravitation Was Discarded


A puzzled Heaviside abhorred the quaternion, since it linked together a

scalar component and a vector component, or "apples and oranges," in his

view.  He excised the scalar component of the quaternion and excluded the

hyperspatial characteristics of its directional components, producing his

much more limited vectors.  To unite magnetics and electromagnetics, the

simplest complex aspect of the quaternion had to be restored by resorting to

ordinary imaginary numbers.  These machinations to the quaternion theory,

however, discarded its unified field theory aspects.  In short, Heaviside

produced a very practical, highly restricted subset that was far easier to

engineer, but he threw out electrogravitation in the process.



Hatred of the Potential


Heaviside hated the potential because he did not truly understand it.  He

stated that it was "...mystical and should be murdered from the theory."  He

conditioned generations of physicists and engineers to erroneously believe

that the potential was just a mathematical convenience, and had no actual

physical realization.  Indeed, most electrical physicists and electrical

engineers are still of that erroneous persuasion today, even though the

Aharonov-Bohm work has long-since falsified such a position, both

theoretically and experimentally.



The Quaternion Theory Was Already a Unified EM/G Theory


The present author has previously pointed out that Maxwell's quaternion

theory was in fact a unified theory of electromagnetics and gravitation, and

that the scalar component of the quaternion was the electrogravitational part.

[ref. 27]  That part was discarded by Heaviside and Gibbs, and so

electrogravitation no longer appears in the electromagnetics that resulted

from Heaviside's and Gibbs' surgery on Maxwell's quaternion theory.  Strong

experimental evidence for the EG nature of Whittaker's scalar EM theory is

planned for presentation at this conference. [ref. 28]



ELECTROGRAVITATION ALSO EXCLUDED FROM GENERAL RELATIVITY


The electrogravitational effect was also erroneously excluded from

Einsteinian general relativity (GR).  Einstein unwittingly narrowed his

general relativity to only a subset of an unrestricted general relativity of

curved space-time, by excluding local curvature.  This GR error was an

indirect result of the fundamental Heaviside/Gibbs omission error in

classical electromagnetics.



Einstein's Gedankenexperiment


Unfortunately, Einstein's view of electromagnetics approximated the classical

Heaviside/Gibbs view.  In classical EM theory, the electrical potentials,

which actually were electrogravitational potentials, were already ignored as

having no physical significance, and EM was considered mutually exclusive

to G.  Therefore, Einstein only considered the weak gravitational force due

to the attraction of mass, in developing his general relativity theory of

curved space-time.  The G-force is far weaker than the E-force; for two

electrons, for example, the attractive G-force between them is on the order

of only 10^-42 times as strong as their electrical E-force repulsion.  Thus

the G-force is incredibly smaller than the EM force.  If only the weak

G-force is considered for curving space-time, then there will never be an

observable curvature except in the immediate vicinity of a very large mass,

such as on the surface of the sun or near a star.


Considering the weak G-force as the agent for curvature, Einstein reasoned

that the laboratory and the observer/scientist/instrument would never be on

the surface of the sun or near a star.  Therefore, the local space-time, where

the lab and the scientist/observer and his instruments are, would never be

observably curved.  The local space-time of the observer would always be flat.


Unfortunately Einstein then overgeneralized his thought examination, and he

stated one of his fundamental postulates of general relativity as "The local

space-time is always flat."  This is an erroneous overstatement.  The

postulate should be more correctly stated as follows: "The local space-time is

always flat, whenever only the weak gravitational force is used for the agent

of curvature, and the observer is not near a large collection of mass, such

as a star."



Corollary to the Corrected Postulate


The two statements of the postulate differ fundamentally.  Einstein's

overstatement of the postulate does not allow the far stronger EM force to be

used as an agent for local curvature.  In effect, his own postulate excluded

electromagnetics from curvature unity with gravitation, in his general

relativity theory. [ref. 29]  On the other hand, the corrected statement of

the postulate admits the following corollary: "When a very strong force such

as the electromagnetic force is used for the agent of curvature, the local

space-time may be curved, even though the observer is not near a large

collection of mass, such as a star." [ref. 30]


Regrettably, many of Einstein's modern followers have raised Einstein's

theory to a dogma, and have vigorously enforced his overstatement of the

locally flat space-time. [ref. 31]  In so doing, general relativity has been

erroneously reduced to a theory that is basically not experimental:

A priori, if the local space-time is flat, then there is no local experiment

or local apparatus that involves or yields a curved space-time where the

laboratory, the instruments, and the observer are located.  In this fashion

the universities have continued to perpetuate the exclusion of

electrogravitation and its direct space-time curvature engineering

implications.



THE CURTAILMENT OF QUANTUM MECHANICS


Today, quantum mechanics is our most successful physics theory.  Its

predictions, even the eery prediction of action at a distance, have been

proven time and time again.  However, quantum mechanics theory is known to

have a formidable foundations difficulty:  Try as they will, quantum

physicists cannot find chaos in the theory.  The theory is known to be wrong

unless it possesses chaos (hidden order inside its statistics), yet the best

efforts of quantum physicists have failed to find it. [ref. 32]



Chaos Excluded By Inherent Assumption


Any well-founded mathematical discipline is totally implied by its

foundations postulates, and that is true of quantum mechanics.  If the best

efforts of the ablest physicists of the day cannot find chaos in the present

QM, then one may suspect that the present QM does not contain chaos (hidden

order), but already excludes it in some fashion.  If that is true, then some

present QM postulate, either explicit or implicit, of QM must be the culprit.

If so, the "real" QM needed is a superset that has at least two subsets: one

(the missing) subset includes chaos, while the present subset excludes chaos.

So we may suspect that one or more of the postulates of the present QM theory

is in error or overly restrictive, and must be changed to allow the missing

chaotic subset.



Gibbs Statistics Excludes Hidden Order


Indeed, we may resolve this formidable QM problem quite simply by examining

the statistics utilized by quantum mechanics.  When QM was being formulated,

scientists simply appropriated and included the thermodynamic statistics of

Willard Gibbs (the same Gibbs who, together with Heaviside, was responsible

for the highly restricted vector subset of Maxwell's theory of

electromagnetics.).  Gibbs' thermodynamics statistics was totally based on

the notion of the random variable.  That is, the change (value assumed by the

variable in a specific instance) is not only totally statistical, it is also

totally random.  Quantum physicists assumed a postulate of QM as follows:

"Quantum change is totally statistical."  However, because of the Gibbs

statistics, in application they interpreted that postulate in a much stronger

fashion, as if it had been stated thusly: "Quantum change is totally

statistical and random."  The actual postulate and the presently applied

interpretation of it are in fact two quite different statements, and the

interpretation is far more restrictive than actually implied by the postulate

itself.



The Random Interpretation Is False


Further, the strong interpretation can readily be falsified.  As an example,

the macroscopic universe is simply a large integration (collection) of

quantum changes.  If these component quanta occur totally randomly, then no

integration of them would yield the ordered, macroscopic world we all live

in, because integrated randomness is still random.  Therefore, since the

ordered macroworld exists, the present QM strong interpretation of its own

statistical quantum change postulate is invalid.


In addition, if quantum change were totally random, then there would never be

any possibility, a priori, of engineering it deterministically.  Presently,

almost all quantum physicists believe that quantum change cannot be

engineered, on first principles.  On the other hand, if hidden order is

admitted, there is at least the possibility of directly engineering physical

quantum change itself.



Hidden Variables


Interestingly, the renowned physicist David Bohm has shown that a hidden

variable theory of quantum mechanics can actually be constructed, whereby

one could potentially engineer physical change. [ref. 33]  It is well-known

that experimental physics does not in any manner refute hidden variable

theories.  Because of the historical attachment of physics to the theory of

the random variable, such contrary notions as chaos (hidden order) and

hidden variables have simply been greeted with suspicion and shuffled aside.

The usual objection is Occam's razor; a theory must predict something

different, or it is said to be unwarranted. [ref. 34]  But based on this

same form of Occam's overworked razor, the Whittaker hidden variable

approach certainly predicts many profoundly different engineerable effects

and capabilities that mandate its full examination.



Correction of the Statistical Postulate


A much better, valid interpretation of the quantum change postulate is as

follows:  "Quantum change is statistical, and may contain hidden order."


The two interpretations differ sharply.  In the new and less restrictive

reinterpretation, one has three cases or subsets of QM as follows: (1) the

subset where quantum change contains partial order, hence is already chaotic,

(2) the subset where the internal order has vanished, leaving the statistics

as Gibbs' random variable statistics, and exhibiting the present quantum

mechanics without chaos, and (3) the subset where the statistics is totally

deterministic, but information on the variables is lost.



Remarks On the New Interpretation


The new interpretation is consistent with Bohm's hidden variable theory, and

it is also consistent with the Schroedinger equation, which in the QM model

already propagates the QM states forward in time with absolute determinism.

It is even possible, for example, to deterministically produce a Bohm/

de Broglie quantum potential, according to a self-targeting repetitive phase

conjugation mechanism advanced by this author. [ref. 35]  The new

interpretation is not consistent with the Copenhagen interpretation, which

only applies to the present QM subset.  This can be seen as follows:  If

quantum change is engineerable by Whittaker hidden variables, then the inner

contents of the engineered quantum change are known.  This knowledge applies

to the subset where QM change is engineered (the new subset), but not to the

subset where all variables are random variables and hence not subject to

engineering.  Therefore the Copenhagen interpretation applies to the random

quantum change subset, but not to chaotic (partially ordered) quantum change

subset.



The New Interpretation Is Testable


Happily, the reinterpretation of the postulate now allows a sufficient

collection of already-chaotic quantum changes to produce the well-ordered,

macroscopic universe we all live in.  Also, the new interpretation is

testable, and it can be falsified or verified in the laboratory.



THE END RESULT OF ABBREVIATING MAXWELL'S THEORY



Effect On EM


In discarding the scalar component of the quaternion, Heaviside and Gibbs

unwittingly discarded the unified EM/G portion of Maxwell's theory that

arises when the translational/directional components of two interacting

quaternions reduce to zero, but the scalar resultant remains and infolds a

deterministic, dynamic structure that is a function of oppositive

directional/translational components.  In the infolding of EM energy inside

a scalar potential, a structured scalar potential results, almost precisely

as later shown by Whittaker but unnoticed by the scientific community.  The

simple vector equations produced by Heaviside and Gibbs captured only that

subset of Maxwell's theory where EM and gravitation are mutually exclusive.

In that subset, electromagnetic circuits and equipment will not ever, and

cannot ever, produce gravitational or inertial effects in materials and

equipments.  Not a single one of those Heaviside/Gibbs equations ever

appeared in a paper or book by James Clerk Maxwell, even though the severely

restricted Heaviside/Gibbs interpretation is universally and erroneously

taught in all Western universities as Maxwell's theory.



Effect On GR


As a result of this artificial restriction of Maxwell's theory, Einstein also

inadvertently restricted his theory of general relativity, forever preventing

the unification of electromagnetics and relativity.  He also essentially

prevented the present restricted general relativity from ever becoming an

experimental, engineerable science on the laboratory bench, since a hidden

internalized electromagnetics causing a deterministically structured local

space-time curvature was excluded.



Effect On QM


Quantum mechanics used only the Heaviside/Gibbs externalized electromagnetics

and completely missed Maxwell's internalized and ordered electromagnetics

enfolded inside a structured scalar potential.  Accordingly, QM maintained

its Gibbs statistics of quantum change, which is non-chaotic a priori.

Quantum physicists by and largely excluded Bohm's hidden variable theory,

which conceivably could have offered the potential of engineering quantum

change, engineering physical reality itself.



In Summary


Each of the three major scientific disciplines missed and excluded a subset

of its disciplinary area, because it did not have the scalar component of the

quaternion to incorporate.  Further, all of them completely missed the

significance of the Whittaker approach, which already shows how to apply and

engineer the very subsets they had excluded.


What now exist in these areas are three inconsistent disciplines.  Each of

them unwittingly excluded a vital part of its discipline, which was the

unified field part.  Ironically, then, present physicists continue to exert

great effort to find the missing key to unification of the three disciplines,

but find it hopeless, because these special subsets are already contradictory

to one another, as is quite well-known to foundations physicists.



CONCLUSIONS


Obviously, if one wishes to unify physics, one must add back the

unintentionally excluded, unifying subsets to each discipline.


Interestingly, all three needed subsets turn out to be one and the same, as

shown in Figure 3.  So application of Whittaker's work to each one of the

three disciplines produces the necessary superset of each, and these three

supersets are unified in and on the common added Whittaker subset.



                        _______________________

                        |                     |

                        |       GENERAL       |

                        |   RELATIVITY (GR)   |

   _____________________|_____________________|_____________________

   |                    |                     |                    |

   |         QM         |        APPLY        |     CLASSICAL      |

   |      (MISSING      |      WHITTAKER      |        EM          |

   |       CHAOS)       |       THEORY        |      THEORY        |

   |____________________|_____________________|____________________|

                        |                     |

                        |   MIND AND SUBTLE   |

                        |       ENERGY        |

                        |_____________________|


Figure 3.  Whittaker Unification of EM, GR, and QM.




Also, as shown in the figure, one gets an added and unexpected bonus of great

value: Mind, thought, and life occupy time, and if time is treated as a real

dimension, then these are real also.  Since fundamental units in which

physics is modeled are arbitrary, one can even model physics in terms of one

unit, time.  In that case, everything is a time structure.  Since even

physical reality can be viewed in this fashion, it is not unreasonable to

view mind, thought, and life as real; they do after all occupy time.

However, since they do not emerge in the normal external electromagnetics,

they must lie within the hidden, internal electromagnetics (since the photon

carries both time and energy, being a piece of action).  Without further

development, we state that the Whittaker hidden variable EM approach, in

allowing the complete engineering of the internal electromagnetics, allows

the complete engineering of mind, thought, and life.  Living systems have

utilized the internal EM Whittaker channel (in and through atomic nuclear

potentials and area quantum potentials) since the beginning. [ref. 36]


Finally, the Whittaker unification linkage of the three disciplines is

testable.  It is engineerable.  It works.



NOTES AND REFERENCES


[1]   P. Graneau, Ampere-Neumann Electrodynamics of Metals, Nonantum,

      Massachusetts, Hadronic Press, 1985.  See also P. Graneau and P.N.

      Graneau, "Electrodynamic Explosions in Liquids," Appl. Phys. Lett.,

      Vol. 46, 1985, p. 468; R. Azevedo, P. Graneau, P.N. Graneau, and

      C. Millet, "Powerful Water Plasma Explosions," Phys. Lett. Vol. 117,

      1986, p. 101.


[2]   See Y. Aharonov and D. Bohm, "Significance of Electromagnetic

      Potentials in the Quantum Theory," Phys. Rev. Second Series, 115(3),

      Aug. 1, 1959, p. 458-491.  This paper pointed out the primacy of the

      potentials.  Instead of being causative agents, the force fields are

      actually effects generated in and of charged particle systems from the

      potentials.  This is in complete violation of both classical

      electromagnetics and classical dynamics, but it is absolutely required

      by quantum mechanics.  For an extensive discussion of the Aharonov-Bohm

      effect and an extensive list of references, see S. Olariu and

      I. Iovitzu Popescu, "The Quantum Effects of Electromagnetic Fluxes,"

      Rev. Mod. Phys. 57(2), Apr. 1985.


[3]   See Bertram Schwarzschild, "Currents in normal-metal rings exhibit

      Aharonov-Bohm Effect," Physics Today, 39(1), Jan. 1986, p. 17-20 for

      confirmation.


[4]   James Clerk Maxwell, A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism, Oxford

      University Press, Oxford, 1873.  The third edition is published by

      Dover, 1954.


[5]   Maxwell's true theory of electromagnetics is contained in some 200-odd

      quaternion equations, and is far more complex than the gross vector

      simplification developed by Heaviside and Gibbs after Maxwell's death.

      For a cogent argument about what might have been discovered much

      earlier in physics if quaternions had not been cast aside, see James

      D. Edmonds, Jr., "Quaternion Quantum Theory: New Physics or Number

      Mysticism?", Am. J. Phys., 42(3), Mar. 1974, p. 220-223.  Just how much

      more powerful was Maxwell's quaternionic expression of EM theory than

      was Heaviside's (i.e., the modern) vector interpretation, was

      succinctly expressed by Josephs as follows: "Hamilton's algebra of

      quaternions, unlike Heaviside's algebra of vectors, is not a mere

      abbreviated mode of expressing Cartesian analysis, but is an independent

      branch of mathematics with its own rules of operation and its own

      special theorems.  A quaternion is, in fact, a generalized or

      hypercomplex number..." (H.J. Josephs, "The Heaviside Papers Found at

      Paignton in 1957," Electromagnetic Theory by Oliver Heaviside,

      Including an account of Heaviside's unpublished notes for a fourth

      volume, and with a foreword by Sir Edmund Whittaker, Vol. III, Third

      Edition, Chelsea Publishing Co., New York, 1971, p. 660.)


[6]   See E.T. Whittaker, "On the Partial Differential Equations of

      Mathematical Physics," Math. Ann., Vol. 57, 1903, p. 333-355; "On an

      Expression of the Electromagnetic Field Due to Electrons by Means of

      Two Scalar Potential Functions," Proc. Lond. Math. Soc., Series 2,

      Vol. 1, 1904, p. 367-372.


[7]   In the modern view, it is trapped energy that is gravitational, mass

      being viewed as simply such trapped energy.  We point out that

      Einstein's formula E = mc^2 actually is an expression for mass in terms

      of its trapped EM energy.  Thus we extend the modern view by stating

      that, to first order, Newtonian gravitational attraction is due to the

      attraction of spatially entrapped electromagnetic energy.  Since the

      electromagnetic scalar potentials represent just such spatially

      entrapped EM energy, then they hold a special significance

      gravitationally.

 

[8]  This assertion can be tested.  At the nodal points of the standing

     potential wave, the rate of flow of time is normal.  At nonzero points

     along the wave, however, the local rate of flow of local time varies

     from normal.  After a proper-time interval for the observer at the nodal

     point, normal clocks and watches at different non-nodal points along the

     wave will appreciably vary in their time reading.  Initially

     synchronized clocks will thus be found to disagree, if placed in

     different positions in the Whittaker wave and allowed to remain for a

     test period.  In the past, various inventors have anecdotally

     demonstrated this effect.  As an example, see David Jones, Vancouver

     Sun Times, Dec. 17, 1977, p. 17.


[9]   V.K. Ignatovich, "The Remarkable Capabilities of Recursive Relations,"

      Am. J. Phys., 57(10), Oct. 1989, p. 873-878.


[10]  Richard W. Ziolkowski, "Localized transmission of wave energy," Proc.

      SPIE, Vol. 1061, Microwave and Particle Beam Sources and Directed

      Energy Concepts, Jan. 1989, p. 396-397.


[11]  An acoustic missile is essentially a slug of acoustic energy that holds

      together as it travels, striking and damaging or destroying a target.

      An electromagnetic missile is a slug of EM energy that holds together

      as it travels to a target and strikes it.


[12]  A.D. Sakharov, "Vacuum Quantum Fluctuations in Curved Space and the

      Theory of Gravitation," Sov. Phys. Dokl., Vol. 12, 1968, p. 1040.  See

      also the related discussion in Misner, Thorne and Wheeler, Gravitation,

      1973, p. 426.


[13]  Note that this assigns an internal structure to a gravitational

      potential.


[14]  A.D. Sakharov, Theor. Math. Phys., Vol. 23, 1975, p. 435.


[15]  K. Akama et al, Prog. Theor. Phys., Vol. 60, 1978, p. 868.


[16]  B. Hasslacher and E. Mottolo, Phys. Lett., Vol. 95B, 1980, p. 237.


[17]  A. Zee, Phys. Rev. Lett., Vol. 42, 1979, p. 417.


[18]  D. Amati and G. Veneziano, Phys. Lett., Vol. 105B, 1981, p. 358; S.

      Yoshimoto, Prog. Theor. Phys., Vol. 78, 1987, p. 435.


[19]  S. Adler, Rev. Mod. Phys., Vol. 54, 1982, p. 729.


[20]  H.E. Puthoff, "Ground State of Hydrogen as a Zero-Point-Fluctuation-

      Determined State," Phys. Rev. D, 35(10), May 15, 1987, p. 3266-3269.


[21]  H.E. Puthoff, "Gravity as a Zero-Point-Fluctuation Force," Phys. Rev.

      A., 39(5), Mar. 1, 1989, p. 2333-2342.  See also H.E. Puthoff, "Source

      of Vacuum electromagnetic Zero-Point Energy," Phys. Rev. A., 40(9),

      Nov. 1, 1989, p. 4857-4862.  Changing the vacuum potential constitutes

      a fluctuation directly in and of the zero-point energy of vacuum, and

      hence, by Puthoff's mechanism, it does indeed induce a gravitational

      effect.  At the level of the vacuum virtual particle flux exchange with

      the charged nucleus, producing an electromagnetic change also produces

      a gravitational change, and vice-versa.


[22]  Puthoff, Phys. Rev. D., 35(10), May 15, 1987, p. 3266-3269.


[23]  Nikola Tesla, Colorado Springs Notes 1899-1900, Nolit, Belgrade,

      Yugoslavia, 1978, p. 61-62.


[24]  E.T. Whittaker, "On an Expression of the Electromagnetic Field Due to

      Electrons by Means of Two Scalar Potential Functions," Proc. Lond. Math.

      Soc., Series 2, Vol. 1, 1904, p. 367-372.


[25]  The potential for weaponization of the Whittaker work should be

      obvious.


[26]  Toward the end of his life Heaviside lived as a recluse in a small

      garret apartment, and may have returned again to his struggle with

      quaternions.  In the 1950's handwritten notes of a theory of

      gravitation, written in quaternion mathematics, were found beneath the

      floor boards of his tiny study.


[27]  T.E. Bearden, "Maxwell's Original Quaternion Theory Was a Unified Field

      Theory of Electromagnetics and Electrogravitation," Proceedings,

      International Tesla Society Symposium, Colorado Springs, Colorado, July

      1988.  See also T.E. Bearden, "Maxwell's Lost Unified Field Theory of

      Electromagnetics and Gravitation," Proceedings, PACE Third

      International New Energy Technology Symposium, June 25-28, 1988 at

      Maison du Citoyen, Hull (Ottawa), Canada, 1988.


[28]  See Floyd Sweet and T.E. Bearden, "Utilizing Scalar Electromagnetics

      to Tap Vacuum Energy," Proceedings, this conference.


[29]  Ironically, Einstein then spent the remainder of his life, desperately

      trying to unify electromagnetics and gravitation in his theory of

      general relativity, never realizing that his own overstatement of his

      "flat local space-time" postulate precluded his success and foredoomed

      all his efforts to failure.


[30]  To appreciate just what can actually be done with local space-time

      curvature, see E.B. Smetanin, "Electromagnetic Field in a Space With

      Curvature - New Solutions," Sov. Phys. J., 25(2), Feb. 1982, p. 107-111.


[31]  For a detailed exposition of the scientific suppression used to uphold

      the present GR, written by an inside scientist of excellent ability, and

      one with over 100 published papers in the literature, see Rugero Maria

      Santilli, Ethical Probe on Einstein's Followers in the USA:  An

      Insider's View, Alpha Publishing, POB 82, Newtonville, MA 02160, 1984.


[32]  For a discussion of the missing chaos in quantum mechanics, see Robert

      Pool, "Quantum Chaos: Enigma Wrapped in a Mystery," Science, 243(4893),

      Feb. 17, 1989, p. 893-895.  For a more technical discussion see P.V.

      Elyutin, "The Quantum Chaos Problem," Sov. Phys. Usp. 31(7), July 1988,

      p. 597-622.


[33]  For an entry point into the literature of hidden variable theory, see

      Quantum Implications: Essays in Honour of David Bohm, B. J. Hiley and

      F. David Peat, Eds., Routledge & Kegan Paul, London & New York, 1987.


[34]  However, even if it predicts something new and is warranted, it still

      may not be adopted.  An example is the continuing reluctance of

      physicists to reformulate EM theory, stressing the primacy of the

      potential and the fact that not the force field but only the potential

      for the force field exists in the vacuum.  Even more so, it is well-

      known that detection is actually binary, and we throw away precisely

      half of almost every detection our instruments make.  C.f. Richard 

      Kidd et al, "Evolution of the Modern Photon," Am. J. Phys., 57(1),

      Jan. 1989, p. 27-35.  Generally in every electromagnetic interaction of

      our instruments, two photons are produced: one a time-forward photon,

      and the other a time-reversed photon.  Our detectors essentially

      measure the time-forward photon half, not the time-reversed photon

      (antiphoton) half.  The antiphoton half produces a slight recoil force

      (Newton's third law reaction force) in the mass (nuclei) of the

      instrument, which we ignore.  Also, we continue to ignore the evidence

      that the photon and antiphoton are not identical.  In a pumped phase

      conjugate mirror, for example, the emission of a normal photon from the

      mirror material results in a recoil of the mirror; the emission of an

      antiphoton by the mirror material, however, does not result in recoil

      of the mirror.  Physics is still not consistent, as is well-known to

      foundations researchers, but this fact is generally not accented to

      university students.


[35]  Bearden, Gravitobiology, Tesla Book Co., 1991, p. 33-36.  The mechanism

      was previously advanced in several miscellaneous papers and in private

      correspondence.


[36]  See Bearden, Gravitobiology, Tesla Book Co., for additional development

      of biological effects and mechanisms of scalar EM.



*******************

End of paper

*******************



-- 

=============================================================================

| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |

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| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |

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=============================================================================

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coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,

nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.



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From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <9202142304.AA28308@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Date: 14 Feb 92 23:04:04 GMT

Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU

Lines: 128



        The following posting is a summary written by my friend and

    co-worker, Drew LePage, of an article in the January 1992 issue of 

    the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS), Volume 45, 

    Number 1.  Titled "An Estimate of the Prevalence of Biocompatible 

    and Habitable Planets", it is authored by M. J. Fogg.


   ########################################################################


        There is a very interesting article in the January 1992 edition 

    of the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS) on the

    likelihood of various types of stars having habitable or biocompatible

    planets.  A biocompatible planet is one where the long term presence

    of surface liquid water provides environmental conditions suitable for

    for the origin and evolution of life.  There are three subsets of

    biocompatible planets: 


  * Juvenile Martian - As the name implies, it is a planet with condition

    similar to those found on Mars early in its life.  The planet would

    receive between 27% and 75% of the light we presently receive from the

    Sun and possess plate tectonics or some other geochemical carbon cycle.

    Mars was this type for its first one billion years. 


  * Juvenile Terran - Again as the name implies, this is a planet with

    conditions similar to those found on the early Earth.  The planet

    would receive between 75% and 95% of the light we presently receive

    from the Sun and be geologically active.  Earth was this type of planet 

    for its first four billion years (i.e. during the Precambrian period). 


  * Habitable - This is a planet with Earthlike conditions.  The planet

    would receive between 95% and 110% of the light we receive and be

    geologically active. 


        The author of the study collected the results of various studies

    to determine what conditions produce biocompatible and habitable 

    planets, the evolution of stars and the effects on planetary environ-

    ments, the likely distribution of planets in other systems, as well 

    as others.  The results of the author's simulations indicate the

    following: 


  * Habitable planets can exist around stars with 0.8 to 1.8 times the

    mass of the Sun. 


  * Biocompatible planets can exist around stars with 0.5 to 1.8 times the

    mass of the Sun. 


  * Habitable planets may occur around >3% of the stars between 0.85 and 

    1.45 times the mass of the Sun.


  * Biocompatible planets may occur around >30% of the stars between 0.8 

    and 1.25 time the mass of the Sun.


        If only single stars possess planets:


  * There would be one habitable planet for every 413 stars.


  * The mean distance between systems with habitable planets would be 

    31 light years.


  * There would be one biocompatible planet for every 39 stars.


  * The mean distance between systems with biocompatible planets would be 

    14 light years.


  * There would be about 362 biocompatible (of which 34 would be habitable) 

    planets within 100 light years of us.


        If planets could form in multiple star systems:


  * There would be one habitable planet for every 196 stars.


  * The mean distance between systems with habitable planets would be 24

    light years.


  * There would be one biocompatible planet for every 18 stars.


  * The mean distance between systems with biocompatible planets would be 

    11 light years.


  * There would be about 763 biocompatible (of which 71 would be habitable) 

    planets within 100 light years of us.


        The author goes further and calculates the probability of the

    nearer stars having biocompatible or habitable planets.  Assuming that

    planets can form in multiple star systems the following probabilities

    were calculated: 


  Name Distance (LY) Type Habitable Biocompatible


  Alpha Centauri A    4.38 G2V    7.8%     44%

  Alpha Centauri B    4.38 K6V    4.4%     38%

  Epsilon Eridani   10.69 K2V    0.6%     34%

  61 Cygni A   11.17 K5V    0.0%      5.8%

  61 Cygni B   11.17 K7V    0.0%      0.3%

  Epsilon Indi   11.21 K5V    0.0%     18%

  Lacille 9352   11.69 M2    0.0%     <0.3%

  Tau Ceti   11.95 G8V    1.5%     35%

  Lacille 8760   12.54 M1V    0.0%      1.5%

  Groombridge 1618   15.03 K7    0.0%      2.5%

  70 Ophiuchi A   16.73 K1    4.4%     38%

  70 Ophiuchi B   16.73 K6    0.0%     16%

  36 Ophiuchi A   17.73 K0V    0.0%     28%

  36 Ophiuchi B   17.73 K1V    0.0%     27%

  36 Ophiuchi C   17.73 K5V    0.0%      9.0%

  HR 7703 A   18.43 K3V    0.0%     27%

  Sigma Draconis   18.53 K0V    1.5%     35%

  Delta Pavonis   18.64 G5    5.1%     39%

  Eta Cassiopeiae A   19.19 G0V    3.9%     38%

  Eta Cassiopeiae B   19.19 M0    0.0%      0.7%

  HD 36395   19.19 M1V    0.0%      0.5%

  Wolf 294   19.41 M4    0.0%     <0.3%

  +5301320 A   19.65 M0    0.0%      0.6%

  +5301320 B   19.65 M0    0.0%      0.5%

  -45013677   20.6 M0    0.0%     <0.3%

  82 Eridani   20.9 G5    4.4%     38%

  Beta Hydri   21.3 G1    7.5%     35%

  HR 8832   21.4 K3    0.0%     23%


        Assuming that the author's simulations and calculations are

    correct, there could be as many as 5.6 BILLION biocompatible planets

    in our galaxy of which about 500 MILLION are habitable.  And, as the

    above table shows, the nearest biocompatible planet could only be 

    4.38 light years away. 


        Drew LePage



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From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: New Asteroid Coming Our Way ...

Message-ID: <9202142306.AA28328@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Date: 14 Feb 92 23:06:31 GMT

Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU

Lines: 53


..or is it really an asteroid?  Reference the file Something Wicked This Way

Comes.....


Len




----- Begin Included Message -----


From: jscotti@lpl.arizona.edu (Jim Scotti x2717)

Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space

Subject: Re: NEW UNUSUAL ASTEROID FOUND...

Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.

Lines: 34

Xref: lassie sci.astro:16766 sci.space:32698


In article <1992Jan24.201444.21555@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> peter@arafel.space.ualberta.ca (Peter Brown) writes:

>

>NEW OUTER SOLAR SYSTEM ASTEROID/COMET FOUND - DUNCAN STEEL, 1992 January 24th

>

>

>On January 1st an object presently designated SS078 (Spacewatch Survey

>object number 078) was discovered by Dr David Rabinowitz using the

>Spacewatch Camera at Kitt Peak, Arizona.

>

The object was discovered on January 9 and re-observed by Spacewatch

on January 10 and 13.  Images were later found by Carolyn Shoemaker

made from Palomar on January 1.  It has now been given the asteroidal 

designation 1992 AD.  We expect that more pre-discovery images from

opposition passages in the last 5-10 years may be forthcoming as the

orbit (and subsequent backwards search ephemerides) is improved.  In

the weeks following the discovery of (2060) Chiron at the end of 1977,

images were found in previous years, for example on the Palomar Sky

Survey in the early 1950's & eventually as early as the 1880's!  Chiron,

however, gets a bit brighter & does not travel as far from the sun

as 1992 AD and we don't expect images going back more than a few

years.  1992 AD is now approximately Visual magnitde 16.8.  At the

time of the Palomar Sky Survey in the early 1950's, 1992 AD was near

aphelion and would have been fainter than V=22, below the plate limit.




---------------------------------------------

Jim Scotti 

Spacewatch Project

{jscotti@lpl.arizona.edu}

Lunar & Planetary Laboratory

University of Arizona

Tucson, AZ 85721 USA

---------------------------------------------



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From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: YOUR OWN PERSONAL OPTICAL SETI

Message-ID: <9202142302.AA28287@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Date: 14 Feb 92 23:02:37 GMT

Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU

Lines: 7917


Check this out!!!!!

Len


===============================================================================



    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



                          THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF

                  THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                     Volume 3, Number 6A - January 1992


                         ###########################


                              TABLE OF CONTENTS


                         ###########################


           * ASA Membership and Article Submission Information


           * The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in

             the Optical Spectrum, Part A - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                         ###########################


                         ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION


        The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic

    (EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the

    Atlantic, Incorporated.  The ASA is a non-profit organization dedicated

    to the advancement of amateur and professional astronomy and space

    exploration, as well as the social and educational needs of its members.


        ASA membership application is open to all with an interest in

    astronomy and space exploration.  Members receive the Journal of the

    ASA (hardcopy sent through United States Mail - Not a duplicate of this

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    address and/or receive the latest Society news.








    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



        ASA Officers and Council -


        President - Don Barry

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        Secretary - Ken Poshedly

        Treasurer - Karla Poshedly

        Board of Advisors - Bill Bagnuolo, Jim Bitsko, Eric Greene

        Council - Jim Bitsko, Bill Black, Mike Burkhead, Bill Crane,

                  Toni Douglas, Ruth Greene, Larry Klaes, Tano Scigliano,

                  John Stauter, Gary Thompson, Bob Vickers


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        or - ...!decwrl!mtwain.enet.dec.com!klaes

        or - klaes%mtwain.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com

        or - klaes%mtwain.enet.dec.com@uunet.uu.net


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        You may also use the above addresses for EJASA back issue requests,

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        DISCLAIMER -


        Submissions are welcome for consideration.  Articles submitted,

    unless otherwise stated, become the property of the Astronomical

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    Copying or reprinting of the EJASA, in part or in whole, is encouraged,

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    expressed in the EJASA are those of the authors' and not necessarily

    those of the ASA.  This Journal is Copyright (c) 1992 by the

    Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Inc.












    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



        Editor's Note -


        This January issue of EJASA is in six parts, and is devoted to the

    work of Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley on the subject of SETI in the Optical

    Spectrum.  While the concept of Optical SETI is not new, it has yet 

    to receive the same attention as the surveys for signals from alien

    intelligences in the microwave spectrum.  It is the desire of

    Dr. Kingsley that this paper will elevate the status of the optical

    approach to the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.


        Parts A, B, and C deal with the general concepts of Optical SETI, 

    in particular Professional Optical SETI.  Part D covers Amateur Optical

    SETI.  In that part, the basic design of an Amateur Optical SETI

    Observatory is described, and details given of its approximate cost.

    Part E contains the discussion and conclusions, and an extensive list

    of references.  Finally, Part F contains two Appendices:  The first

    gives the theory and specimen calculations to support the case made for

    both Professional and Amateur Optical SETI; the second gives the 

    Post-Detection SETI Protocols.


        This year will see considerable media attention given to Microwave

    (Conventional) SETI.  On Columbus Day, October 12, NASA's Microwave

    Observing Project, which is otherwise known by the acronym MOP, will be

    activated in the Northern Hemisphere at Puerto Rico's three hundred-

    meter diameter Arecibo telescope (Targeted Search) and NASA's thirty

    four-meter antenna at the Deep Space Network (DSN) in Goldstone,

    California (All Sky Survey).  Later, the seventy-meter telescopes at

    Parkes and Tidbinbilla in Australia, and the thirty-meter telescope at

    the Institute Argentino de Radioastronomia Villa Elisa in Argentina,

    will join the program for complementary observations in the Southern

    Hemisphere.


        At this auspicious moment as we approach the five hundredth

    anniversary of Christopher Columbus's discovery of the Americas,

    Dr. Kingsley brings to the public's attention the suggestion that we

    may not actually be tuned to the correct frequencies, so that the

    chances of discovering older, more mature extraterrestrial technical

    civilizations will be substantially impaired.



        CORRECTIONS -


        While every care has been taken to ensure the theoretical correct-

    ness of this paper, inevitable mistakes will be found, particularly

    considering the size and complexity of this material.  The author

    wishes it to be known that he would like to hear about these errors.

    The COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION page provides information as to how he may

    be contacted.


        The COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION (Page iii) contains the version number

    for this issue of the EJASA.  If later, corrected versions are

    released, they will have a version number greater than 1.00.




    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



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    first bringing them into a textprocessor.


        If you have trouble receiving all six parts of this document due to

    limitations on the network gateways, the entire document is available

    for downloading from FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS BBS (614-258-1710) in

    individual text files:  EJASAV3.N6A, EJASAV3.N6B, EJASAV3.N6C,

    EJASAV3.N6D, EJASAV3.N6E, and EJASAV3.N6F, and in a single compressed

    file.  Both the individual text files and the compressed file,

    EJASA306.ZIP, will be found in the Optical SETI Conference Area 2.  The

    compressed file may be decompressed with PKWARE's PKUNZIP (this DOS

    utility may be found in the Utility Conference Area 10).  The

    decompressed file will explode into a READ.ME file and the six

    individual text files, which may then be sent straight to the printer.

    The compressed file will also be available on CompuServe's Space and

    Astronomy Forums under the file name EJASA.ZIP.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992











              THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)

                             IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM


                Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach




                                       by




                             Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley



                            FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS

                               545 Northview Drive

                               Columbus, Ohio 43209

                                  United States






























    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992











              THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)

                         IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART A


                Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach




                                       by




                             Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                            FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS

                               545 Northview Drive

                               Columbus, Ohio 43209

                                  United States































    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                           i


        About the Author -


        Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley, born in 1948, is an alien of the

    terrestrial kind (British), having lived most of his life in South

    Tottenham, London, England, where his mother still resides.  Stuart

    is single and still harbors a long-held desire to move to Hawaii or

    California.  Presently he is an Optoelectronics Consultant, a Senior

    Member of the American Institute of Electrical and Electronics

    Engineers (IEEE), and an Associate Member of the British Institution of

    Electrical Engineers (IEE).  Stuart Kingsley has a Bachelor of Science

    (B.Sc.) Honors degree and a Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) in Electrical

    and Electronic Engineering from The City University, London, and

    University College London, respectively.  In 1984 he shared the

    prestigious British Rank Prize for Optoelectronics with his former

    University College London thesis advisor, Professor D. E. N. Davies,

    who is now Vice-Chancellor of Loughborough University, England.


        Dr. Kingsley arrived in the United States in 1981 to join Battelle

    Columbus Division and lead their activities in fiber-optic sensing,

    initially as a Principal Research Scientist and later as a Senior

    Research Scientist.  In 1987 he left Battelle and established himself

    as a photonics consultant.  The magnet that drew him to this country

    was the dynamic state of American technology during the APOLLO Program,

    which coincided with his formative teenage years.  Indeed, for most of

    his life, Stuart has been "mad about astronomy and space", and once, in

    the late 1970s, volunteered to be a British Payload Specialist on the

    American Space Shuttle.  In the 1970s, Stuart was a member of his local

    Haringey Astronomical Society (patron Arthur C. Clarke), which was

    formed after a suggestion made by Patrick Moore to Arthur's brother,

    Fred Clarke.


        Soon after arriving in Columbus, Ohio, Stuart joined The Planetary

    Society (TPS) and the Space Studies Institute (SSI).  The only previous

    time that he has ventured professionally into the space and astronomy

    area was in the early 1980s, when he suggested the very speculative

    possibility that huge fiber-optic sensors (Sagnac Interferometers)

    with quantum amplifiers might be used to detect gravitational waves.

    In this present paper, Stuart is suggesting how we might "sense" ETI,

    with or without optical fibers - perhaps the ultimate optoelectronic

    (photonic) sensing and communications project.  Dr. Kingsley is

    presently a volunteer with the SETI Group at the Radio Observatory,

    Ohio State University and a member of the Columbus Astronomical Society

    (CAS).  Stuart's greatest concern today is that the nation has

    forgotten how to "dream" for a better tomorrow.


        As a point of information, the logo for Fiberdyne Optoelectronics

    normally shows a Mach-Zehnder interferometer containing a photon and

    a wave-packet, the latter illustrating the dual nature of light (for

    this text-based document, they have been replaced by "hf >> kT").

    Despite the STAR TREK style caption above the logo, which is more

    applicable to Dr. Kingsley's usual consulting activities, the

    suggestion made here is that extraterrestrial artificial optical

    photons may have been coming in Earth's direction for a long time,

    only that we humans have not been sophisticated enough to notice.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                          ii


                         FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS BBS


        On Sunday, October 27, 1991, Fiberdyne Optoelectronics inaugurated

    a Bulletin Board System (BBS) whose main purpose is to promote

    activities for the Optical (Visible and Infrared) Search For Extra-

    terrestrial Intelligence, otherwise known as Optical SETI*, and

    Microwave (Conventional) SETI**.  It is intended that this BBS will

    advance the science of Optical SETI.  In addition, the aim is to use

    this bulletin board to coordinate future world-wide Amateur Optical

    (Visible and Near-Infrared) SETI endeavors.  This BBS is running

    Wildcat 3.0 and supports color ANSI menus.  It will be an open system,

    and there is no charge at this time for becoming a registered user.  If

    the bulletin board should prove to be very popular, a small charge will

    be instigated to fund the hardware acquisitions to support more modem

    lines.


        This announcement also serves as a request to those professionally

    involved with SETI and with other forums listed below, to upload

    relevant files, messages, and news to the appropriate conference areas

    (forums).  This can be done by becoming a registered user and directly

    uploading files, sending text files via the national/international

    computer network systems to the E-mail addresses below, or by mailing

    us the material on any size of PC-compatible floppy disk.  Prior to

    registration, new users can only access Conference Areas 0 and 1.  The

    following is a list (subject to additions and change) of conference

    areas on this BBS:


     1.  Fiberdyne Optoelectronics       2.  Optical SETI*

     3.  SETI**                          4.  Astronomy

     5.  Space & Astronautics            6.  Electromagnetics & Health

     7.  Lighting & VDT flicker          8.  Electrical Engineering

     9.  Mathematics                    10.  Utilities

    11.  UFOs                           12.  TVRO & Intelsat Reception

    13.  Optoelectronics                14.  Fiber-Optic Communications

    15.  Fiber-Optic Sensing            16.  Distributed Fiber-Optic Sensing

    17.  PC Software Demos              18.  PC Hardware

    19.  Science Fiction                20.  Games

    21.  Reserved                       22.  Political

    23.  United Kingdom News            24.  Private

    25.  Private                        26.  Private

    27.  Private                        28.  Employment

    29.  Advertisements


                  IMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM;

                  :        Bulletin Board System (BBS)       :

                  :           Modem: (614) 258-1710          :

                  :  300/1200/2400/4800/9600 Baud, MNP, 8N1  :

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        The voice/fax number is (614) 258-7402.  Manual fax machines can

    access our fax facility by sending the tone "33" anytime after the

    first telephone ring.  The answering machine gives instructions for 

    fax and modem usage.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                         iii


                            COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION


        This document may be freely copied to other electronic bulletin

    boards, but only in an unmodified form and in its entirety, with the

    following copyright notice attached.  No license is given to reproduce

    this document in electronic or hardcopy form for profit.  However, the

    media may reproduce short extracts for the purposes of furthering the

    Optical SETI debate.


 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 * Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley                     Copyright (c) 1992           *

 * Consultant                                                              *

 * AMIEE, SMIEEE,                                                          *

 * The Planetary Society,                                                  *

 * Space Studies Institute,                                                *

 * Columbus Astronomical Society,                                          *

 * Volunteer, SETI Group, Ohio State.                                      *

 *                                                                         *

 *                                    "Where No Photon Has Gone Before &   *

 *                                   The Impossible Takes A Little Longer" *

 *                                                 __________              *

 * FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS                      /          \             *

 * 545 Northview Drive                        ---   hf >> kT   ---         *

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 * United States                                                           *

 * Tel/Fax: (614) 258-7402                 ..    ..    ..    ..    ..      *

 * Manual Fax Tone Access Code: 33        .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .     *

 * Bulletin Board System (BBS):               ..    ..    ..    ..         *

 * Modem: (614) 258-1710,                                                  *

 * 300/1200/2400/4800/9600 Baud, MNP, 8N1.                                 *

 * Email: skingsle@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu                               *

 * CompuServe: 72376,3545                                                  *

 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


   U.K. inquires may be made to the above U.S. address or:

 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 * FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS                                               *

 * 43 Blenheim Avenue                                                      *

 * Gants Hill, Ilford                                                      *

 * Essex 1G2 6JQ                                                           *

 * England                                                                 *

 * Tel: (081) 518-1953                                                     *

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Version: 1.00

File: EJASAV3.N06



      THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                          January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6A


                            Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                          iv


                                   CONTENTS


                                                                   PAGE


    Preface                                                           1


    Introduction                                                      9


    The Microwave Observing Project (MOP)                            11


    Assumption of Ineptitude                                         13


    Professional Optical SETI                                        14


    Project Cyclops                                                  18


    SETI Comparisons                                                 18


    Lasers                                                           29


    Fraunhofer Lines                                                 31


    The Optical Search                                               31


    Professional CO2 SETI                                            35


    Incoherent Optical SETI at 10,600 nm                             37


    Adaptive Telescope Technology                                    39


    The Columbus Telescope Project                                   40


    Optical SETI Rationale                                           40


    Amateur Optical SETI                                             42


    How to Build Your Own Amateur Optical SETI Observatory           47


    The Microwave and Optical Observing Project (MOOP)               52


    List of Previous and Present Optical SETI Activities             54


    Discussion                                                       56


    Conclusions                                                      58


    References                                                       64


    Appendix A - Theory and Specimen Calculations                    71


    Appendix B - The SETI Protocols                                  94


    Index                                                            98



    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                           v


                                    TABLES


                                                                   PAGE


    Table 1   Project Cyclops comparison scenarios.                  19


    Table 2   Summary of SETI performance for (symmetrical)          22

              professional heterodyne communication systems

              over a range of 10 light years.


    Table 3   Important laser types and wavelengths.                 29


    Table 4   The most intense Fraunhofer lines from the Sun.        30


    Table 5   Nearest stars favored for MOP's 800 star Targeted      53

              Search.




                                 ILLUSTRATIONS


    Figure  1  Signpost SETI or pilot-tone system.                   10


    Figure  2  Coherent optical heterodyne receiver.                 15


    Figure  3  Spectral levels at a range of ten light years,        17

               per diffraction limited pixel.


    Figure  4  Spectral density and interstellar CNR for             28

               1 kW (SETI) signals at ten light years.


    Figure  5  The Microwave and Optical Cosmic Haystack             32

               frequency domains.


    Figure  6  Signal-to-noise ratio versus optical bandwidth        38

               for (perfect) photon-counting CO2 receivers.


    Figure  7  Incoherent (direct) detection optical receiver.       42


    Figure  8  Signal-to-noise ratio versus optical bandwidth        44

               (perfect) photon-counting 656 nm receivers.


    Figure  9  Basic Amateur Optical SETI or Poor Man's              48

               Optical SETI.


    Figure 10  Typical FOVs for a large optical telescope.           81


    Figure 11  Maximal Ratio Precombining.                           84








    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                          vi


                               EXECUTIVE SUMMARY


        This paper shows that the rationale behind modern-day SETI (The

    Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence) lore is suspect, and that 

    our search of electromagnetic signals from extraterrestrial technical

    civilizations may be doomed to failure because we are "tuned to the

    wrong frequencies".  The old idea that optical transmissions would be

    better for interstellar communications is revisited.  That lasers might

    be better for interstellar communications has generally been discounted

    by the SETI community.  Indeed, there is very little in the SETI

    literature about the optical approach, as its efficacy was more or less

    dismissed by SETI researchers some twenty years ago.  This paper serves

    to reopen the debate.


        A powerful case is made that we have inherently assumed that ETIs

    are technical inept, so that they lack the prowess to send very narrow

    laser beams into nearby star systems.  This paper provides convincing

    theoretical proof that infrared or visible lasers would be preferred

    for such communication links.  Indeed, the author suggests that until

    a thorough search for ETI signals is done in the optical spectrum, we

    are unlikely to be able to say anything definitive about the

    probability or lack of probability of intelligent life in other parts

    of the Milky Way galaxy, particularly if the microwave search turns out

    to be negative.


        The author, Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley, also indicates that amateur

    optical astronomers should be able to construct their own Optical SETI

    Observatories.  Details are given of the equipment required and

    approximate costs.  He suggests that a coordinated Amateur Optical 

    SETI activity could make a useful contribution to SETI research by

    conducting a low-sensitivity Targeted Search in the visible and near-

    infrared spectrum, in parallel with the Microwave Observing Project's

    Targeted Search of eight hundred selected stars.  Stuart Kingsley

    concludes his paper, by suggesting that while it is impossible to say

    that ETIs would not use interstellar microwave techniques to

    communicate with other technical civilizations, it is a mistake to

    ignore the strong possibility that optical communications are

    preferred.


        An extensive theoretical appendix is included to support the

    calculations for Professional and Amateur Optical SETI, and the

    conclusions drawn from these calculations.  For those interested in the

    procedures to follow after detection of an ETI signal, a copy of the

    Post-Detection SETI Protocols is also included.












    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                      Page 1


                                   PREFACE


        This paper is about the Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence

    (SETI) in the Optical Spectrum.  It is a revisit of suggestions which

    for various reasons have yet to be accepted by the majority of the

    SETI community.  This document does not address the usual controversial

    aspects about SETI, such as Fermi's Paradox, i.e., "Where are they?"

    and the arguments of Frank Tipler. [20,39]  We shall also not discuss

    exotic forms of radiation, such as X-rays, gamma rays, neutrinos, and

    gravitational waves.  This paper deals primarily with the superiority

    of interstellar optical beamed communications over their microwave

    counterparts.


        In general, the concept of SETI is "sold" on the basis that

    electromagnetic waves are the cheapest (in energy cost) and fastest

    way to travel through deep space, and is the next best thing to

    actually being there.  I tend to believe that interstellar travel by

    humans will be quite commonplace in the centuries to come, so that

    for myself there is the paradox (Kingsley's Paradox) of why

    communicate when it is possible to travel?


        It is perhaps useful to state from the start what are my basic

    beliefs, with the caveat that there is presently very little scientific

    evidence to support any of these speculative ideas.


    (a)  The Universe is literally crawling with life, some of this extra-

         terrestrial life being highly intelligent.


    (b)  In general, extraterrestrials do not stay at home, but they do not

         leave the exploration and colonization of the galaxy to self-

         replicating von Neumann probes. [20]


    (c)  Extraterrestrials find it easy to travel across the galaxy in

         near-relativistic or relativistic spaceships.


    (d)  On the basis of (a), (b) and (c), it is likely that at least some

         of the so-called sightings of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs)

         do in fact relate to visitations from other worlds, and that

         Earth's history and the evolution of life on this planet may have

         been affected by such visits.


    (e)  If (c) is not possible and von Neumann probes are not employed,

         then electromagnetic waves could be used by extraterrestrial

         civilizations to contact their counterparts in other stellar

         systems, particularly more primitive technological civilizations.


    (f)  If (e) is occurring, then it is more likely that the optical

         region of the electromagnetic spectrum would be used, in

         preference to the microwave region.



        Note that there is, of course, the possibility of radio or optical

    communications from von Neumann probes in our vicinity, both with us

    and with their home worlds.  Perhaps the greatest difficulty that I


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                      Page 2


    have with electromagnetic SETI is my long-held belief in what has come

    to be known as the "Cosmic Zoo", which is related to idea (c).  If we

    are indeed presently off-limits for "Contact" in any form, i.e.,

    quarantined, searching for electromagnetic signals would be a waste of

    time, never mind the consideration as to whether there are a sufficient

    number of ETIs in the galaxy to make electromagnetic "Contact"

    probable.  However, this study is restrictive in its terms of

    reference, as it only considers the relative efficacies of the

    microwave and optical approaches to electromagnetic SETI (f).  For the

    sake of this discussion, we shall not make much of an attempt to

    resolve these other problems here.


        I would, however, make some observations.  It has been a long and

    somewhat difficult road for SETI researchers to establish electro-

    magnetic SETI as a legitimate science.  To some extent, for political

    reasons, they have had to strongly disassociate themselves from those

    who believe in UFOs.  This somewhat artificial differentiation has been

    done to reduce the incidence of being labelled "crazy" by their more

    conservative colleagues and Members of Congress, and to maintain the

    rationale that electromagnetic interstellar communications is the

    cheapest form of travel.


        In reality, there is more common-ground between scientists who

    believe in UFOs and those that ascribe to SETI, than the latter might

    care to admit.  To maintain otherwise is being intellectually

    dishonest, for both believe in "Aliens" or what are now more affection-

    ately referred to as "Extraterrestrials" (ETs).  In the end, what one

    believes (as against what one knows and is scientifically proven) comes

    down to imagination, or the lack of.  On the other hand, what one

    publicly admits to believing is quite another matter entirely.  This

    involves other more down-to-Earth considerations, like the fear of

    being ridiculed by colleagues and the scientific establishment.


        One only has to remember how the "keepers of the flame" recently

    reacted to the Cold Fusion work of Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons,

    to realize that the scientific establishment does not take too kindly

    to those would dare to "rock the boat" of conventional orthodoxy.

    Fortunately, the theory on Optical SETI given in Appendix A is based

    on long-established scientific principles, so this author should fare

    somewhat better.


        Three types of civilizations have been postulated by Kardashev 

    for the development of "super civilizations". [4,13,25]  A "Type I"

    civilization would be in a similar stage of development as Earth,

    having gained control of most of the energy sources on the planet of

    origin (about 4 X 10^12 W).  A "Type II" civilization would have

    reached a level at which it controlled the energy output of its own sun

    (4 X 10^26 W).  A "Type III" civilization would have gained control of

    the energy output of the entire galaxy (about 4 X 10^37 W).


        This paper really addresses the type of technology and energy

    sources available to Type I and Type II civilizations.  Freeman Dyson

    has described how a Type II civilization might dismantle one of the

    larger planets in its solar system and build a shell completely


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

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    surrounding its sun. [25]  A Type III civilization would hardly need to

    use microwave or optical technology for communications, and might

    consider us little more than we do ants.


        During the past eighteen months, I have been associated with

    Dr. Robert Dixon's SETI Group at Ohio State, and have had extensive

    communications with the SETI Institute at NASA's Ames Research Center

    in Moffett Field, California.  My approach in revisiting this subject

    has not been the conventional one of publishing a paper or papers and

    waiting for the "penny to drop".  Rather, because several noted

    researchers have published papers along similar lines over the past

    thirty years and have largely had their ideas rejected by their

    colleagues, I decided to try a somewhat different strategy:  To take

    the SETI community by storm.  The reader is assured that to the best of

    my knowledge, no laws of physics have been violated in this study.

    What is true, however, is that the human imagination has been stretched.


        This is not the first time, nor will it be the last, that the

    scientific community may have gone in the wrong direction because of

    mistaken assumptions.  What I am doing is to seriously question

    present SETI lore, with due respects to Professors Philip Morrison,

    Frank Drake (President, SETI Institute), Carl Sagan, Dr. Bernard Oliver,

    and the late I. Shklovskii, to name but a few.  At first glance, the

    three decades old idea that ETI signals will be found in the quietest

    region of the electromagnetic spectrum seems reasonable.  Thus, the

    21-centimeter hydrogen (H) line and the region of the microwave

    spectrum between the H and lowest OH resonance lines (1.420 to

    1.662 GHz), which has come to be known as the "waterhole", has become a

    favored "magic frequency".  However, we may have been too clever by

    half in guessing the natural interstellar communication frequencies,

    and in assuming that ETIs will make it very easy for us to locate their

    signals.  Perhaps our commitment to the search for ETI must be

    substantially increased before we are rewarded by success.


        Over the years, many science fiction writers have involved inter-

    stellar laser communications in their story lines.  Indeed, in the 1990

    SETI book, FIRST CONTACT [26], edited by Ben Bova and Byron Preiss, Ben

    Bova wrote a story involving Optical SETI called "Answer, Please,

    Answer".  Interestingly, a recent edition of NEW SCIENTIST [45] which

    had an article about SETI, also contained a review of the new paperback

    issue of FIRST CONTACT and criticized it, suggesting that it was

    inappropriate to include this science fiction material.  However, there

    may have been more truth in that story than in much of the rest of the

    book.  Perhaps it is time again for scientists to take note of what

    science fiction writers have to say!


        FIRST CONTACT also contains a chapter (Chapter 9, "How to

    Participate in SETI", by Kent Cullers and William Alschuler) devoted to

    Amateur Microwave SETI, but it is not clear how many TVRO (TeleVision

    Receive Only) owners would wish to convert their satellite dishes for

    this purpose.  In the microwave regime, amateurs would be competing

    with the "big boys", but in the optical regime they would be essent-

    ially on their own.  The contribution that the amateur optical

    astronomy enthusiast can make in this area is described later.


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        What I do find slightly disturbing is that the popular literature

    on SETI usually says either nothing about the optical approach or

    dismisses it in a paragraph or two as being without merit.  As far as

    I can recall, THE PLANETARY REPORT [17,21,37] has never discussed this

    approach.  Even the latest PLANETARY REPORT article by Professor Paul

    Horowitz [37] fails again to mention the optical approach.  Indeed, The

    Planetary Society has just launched an appeal, with the help of film

    producer and director Steven Spielberg, to raise funds for support of

    the Harvard BETA (Billion-channel Extraterrestrial Assay) project.

    This system will eventually have six billion channels and is designed

    to have a channel resolution of 0.05 Hz.  This trend in Microwave SETI

    channel resolution is directly opposite to the thrust of the Optical

    SETI rationale described herein, where minimum channel bandwidths of

    about 100 kHz are specified.


        Also, there appears to be misleading information in SETI books as

    to the visibility of electronically detectable signals and the efficacy

    of using Fraunhofer lines to increase signal contrast.  It is almost as

    if no one had bothered to "crunch" the numbers properly.  The fact that

    Fraunhofer lines have been previously thought to have a significant

    bearing on transmission frequencies in the visible regime, really

    arises from the assumption that ETIs lack the technical prowess to send

    us more than a few photons per second.  Once that assumption is swept

    away, the increased contrast ratio produced by these stellar absorption

    lines become less significant, particularly in relation to the use of

    optical heterodyne receiving systems. [71-73]


        Microwave SETI researchers are looking for very weak narrow-band

    signals buried in noise, and require the use of signal processing

    algorithms like the Karhunen-Loeve Transform (KLT) presently being

    studied by Dr. Robert Dixon's SETI group at Ohio State [73,86].  The

    KLT is more effective than the Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) in

    extracting non-repetitive pulses from noise-like data.  I assume, that

    Optical SETI signals will be much stronger and of substantially

    increased bandwidth, and may not need to be processed in this manner.


        The ten-year duration, 100 million-dollar Microwave Observing

    Project (MOP) now just starting, dramatically extends the search space

    in the Microwave Cosmic Haystack. [40-45]  As far as Visible Optical

    SETI is concerned, it would appear that scientists of the former Soviet

    Union have done most of the work in this area, though it represents but

    a tiny fraction of global modern-day SETI activities.


        If we confine ourselves to Visible Optical SETI for the moment, I

    make the following case that the sort of visible signal intensities

    which would allow modest-size telescopes to produce low-noise signals

    in moderate bandwidths are so weak that they would be easily missed by

    conventional optical astronomers.  One just has to remember, that for

    over thirty years, SETI researchers have been scanning the skies for

    artificial extraterrestrial microwave signals in a systematic manner.

    So far they have failed to detect a confirmed artificial extra-

    terrestrial signal.  What is the probability if such rare signals exist

    in the visible or near-infrared spectrum that optical astronomers

    would have accidently stumbled across them?


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        In early 1991, after "suggesting" that the SETI community should

    revisit the optical approach, I was invited to give a talk at the SETI

    Institute.  This Optical SETI Revisited Colloquium took place in April

    of 1991.  Prior to my NASA visit, I had concentrated my analysis on

    Professional Optical SETI and had given some thought to the optical

    equivalent of the Microwave Observing Project.  Some of the signal

    processing ideas arising out of MOP will be transferable to the optical

    search.  I was well-received by NASA, though there are certain members

    of the group who still hold to the view that the optical approach is

    useless, particularly at the high-frequency visible end of the

    spectrum.  After my talk, Dr. John Billingham, Chief of NASA's SETI

    Office, invited me to present a paper at the Commission 51 Bioastronomy

    Conference of the IAU (International Astronomical Union), which is to

    be held in 1993, and have that paper printed in the journal ACTA

    ASTRONAUTICA.


        In recent years, NASA has supported a limited activity in SETI at

    10,600 nm.  However, its main thrust has always been Microwave SETI.

    For about five years, NASA has been supporting Charles Townes and

    Albert Betz in a low-level activity at the Carbon Dioxide (CO2) laser

    wavelength.  This work has been "piggy-backed" onto a larger program

    for CO2 astrophysical research.  They are using an interferometric

    system consisting of two infrared telescopes mounted on a trailer, with

    two phase-locked heterodyning CO2 local-oscillator lasers, nitrogen-

    cooled photodetectors, and a bandwidth of a few MHz.  The observations

    are being conducted at Mount Wilson Observatory.  The SETI aspect of

    this work is so low-key that I found some difficulty in obtaining

    details about this activity.


        Over the early part of the summer of 1991 while I was back home in

    England, I was able to convince myself that perhaps the concept of

    Amateur (visible and near-infrared) Optical SETI was not such an

    implausible idea.  Over the past eighteen months, I have undertaken a

    substantial self-funded analysis of Professional and Amateur Optical

    SETI, of which this represents a brief summary.  I would be interested

    in hearing from any major space/astronomy publication or organization

    that would like to approach me for an article, book, or talk, or any

    company which might be interested in a business relationship in this

    area.  I have prepared a substantial illustrated viewgraph report on

    this subject, which the few ASCII text diagrams and graphs in this

    document can hardly do justice.  I would be interested in producing an

    Optical SETI book accompanied with compiled versions of many of the

    spreadsheets that I have employed for these analyses.  This would allow

    readers to do their own "what-if" analyses.


        The SETI Institute and NASA have been alerted that I will be going

    public about Professional and Amateur Optical SETI at this time,

    because of my gut feeling that there will be a surge of interest in

    this subject seldom seen during the thirty years of modern-day SETI.

    NASA might like to consider coordinating world-wide Amateur Optical

    SETI activities to avoid excessive duplication of searches on the same

    target stars.  This would also present the opportunity to compare data

    to that obtained for the same stars with the Microwave Observing

    Project.


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        After digesting this material, some readers are bound to feel that

    what they have read they always knew, but were intimidated by the

    giants of the scientific community.  Perhaps there is no field of human

    endeavor like SETI which involves so much speculation, where the

    citizen with a scientific background is just as qualified to speculate

    as the professional SETI scientist.  The controversy over this approach

    is bound to rage for some time.  Soon after I embarked on this study in

    June of 1990, I came to the conclusion that if this revisit of Optical

    SETI was to at last be given the attention it deserved, I would have to

    take a very different approach to getting the material published.


        It is fitting that this first publication of these ideas is being

    done via the electronic media, the computer networks which span the

    globe.  It has been advantageous that it has also given me substantial

    space in which to delineate the full scope of my rationale in one go,

    without leaving too many gaps.  Indeed, what started out as a small

    paper has turned into a mini-book.  Who knows; perhaps ETIs in the

    future will intercept signal leakage from Earth's microwave satellite

    uplinks, read this document, or eavesdrop on terrestrial TV and radio

    transmissions, and have a chuckle (I assume that humor is more than a

    human trait):  "Those crazy humans, if only they knew!".


        During the early formative part of my life, I owned a small

    refracting telescope and would spend many hours studying Earth's moon

    and the planets.  It has been a long time since I possessed another

    telescope.  Because I believe in putting my money where my mouth is, I

    am now impatient to put together my own Amateur Optical SETI

    Observatory.  This paper has yet to be peer reviewed and the author is

    solely responsible for its contents.  Readers are encouraged to check

    out the relationships used and the accuracy of the calculations.  The

    rest is then a matter of opinion and imagination.


        Optical SETI investigations will probably take a lot of

    perseverance.  In the grand tradition of American disclaimers, readers

    should note that I cannot accept responsibility for the lack of success

    in detecting ETI - ("Caveat emptor"!).  Since I expect that there will

    be considerable reaction to this material, I therefore beg your

    indulgence if I do not presently reply or reply in detail to every

    personal message received in response, either by conventional mail,

    fax, or network E-mail.  However, a personal response is assured

    through my own bulletin board system (BBS), which has been set up

    specifically to coordinate future world-wide Optical SETI activities.


        Simultaneously with the electronic publication of this document, I

    have established a BBS devoted to SETI in general, and Optical SETI in

    particular.  More modem lines may be added later as interest warrants.

    The telephone number is (614) 258-1710 and supports all modem speeds

    up to 9600 baud.  The BBS is dedicated to NASA and the late Gene

    Roddenberry, the latter having had a substantial influence on how I view

    the future.  Many of the spreadsheets, diagrams, and graphs - and there

    are many - that have supported the development of my rational, will

    eventually be made available via the bulletin board.  For further

    details about this computer bulletin board, see the BBS information

    (Page ii) at the front.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

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        The theoretical justification for the results and conclusions

    drawn in this paper has been relegated to Appendix A.  In this way,

    those readers uncomfortable with scientific theory and mathematical

    relationships do not have to have wade through masses of equations.

    It is, of course, very difficult to be everything to all people.  For

    this reason, I have compromised in this approach by keeping the theory

    as simple as possible, and have avoided the use of statistical analysis

    and calculus.  For instance, the way that the signal-to-noise ratio of

    a detected optical signal varies with received photon flux, bandwidth,

    and signal integration time is exceedingly complex when the photon flux

    is weak, particularly if avalanche photodetectors are employed.  There

    will be plenty of time later for this author and others to present a

    more rigorous approach to Optical SETI.  This can be done in a variety

    of learned journals, such as IEEE's LIGHTWAVE TECHNOLOGY and

    TRANSACTIONS ON COMMUNICATIONS, or the IEE's ELECTRONICS LETTERS.


        The purpose of this document is to rekindle the debate between

    those who believe in the microwave approach to SETI and those who

    subscribe to the efficacy of the optical approach.  An additional

    desire is to introduce my colleagues in the fiber-optics field to a

    rather exciting concept - an idea which dwarfs all the puny terrene

    "hero" long-distance demonstrations that large fiber-optics

    communication companies like to brag about from time to time.  As

    actor Al Jolson used to say, "You ain't seen nothing yet!".


        I would like to acknowledge discussions and encouragement from

    various sources:  Dr. Robert Dixon (Director, SETI Program) for a very

    professional reaction to what I had to say, despite having devoted

    decades of his SETI activities to the microwave search with "Big Ear".

    I also acknowledge Dr. Dixon's contribution in being given access to

    the educational and scientific network.  In addition, I would like to

    thank Professor Charles Townes (University of California, Berkeley) for

    his helpful comments when this study was first started, recent E-mail

    discussions with his colleague Dr. Albert Betz, Professor Philip

    Morrison (MIT), and correspondence with Dr. John Rather (NASA-HQ).


        I would also acknowledge correspondence and discussions with

    Dr. Bernard Oliver, who in early November of 1990 sent me a copy of his

    Cyclops report, convinced that it would prove the case for the efficacy

    of the microwave approach.  In my correspondence and discussions with

    Dr. Oliver, who is also known as the "grand old man" of SETI, I have

    not been able to shake his belief in the correctness of the microwave

    approach.  So we have agreed to disagree over the relative merits of

    Microwave and Optical SETI.


        Over much of the past year and a half while the ideas were

    developing, I have interfaced with parts of the SETI community.  There

    is some perception that my "lobbying" for the optical approach to SETI

    may already have had some effect on how those within NASA and the SETI

    Institute now view Optical SETI.  At least, I have received rather

    "mixed signals" over the past eighteen months as to where the consensus

    lies, and there appears to have been some shift towards my position,

    though this may be a presumption on my part.



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        I would particularly like to acknowledge the professional courtesy

    and assistance given me by Dr. Jill Tarter (NASA SETI MOP Project, SETI

    Institute, U.C. Berkeley) and her staff at the SETI Institute, despite

    the fact that I may have "come on quite strong" in revisiting Optical

    SETI.  I also thank Dr. Kent Cullers (Signal Detection Scientist, NASA)

    then of the SETI Institute, for his encouragement and for checking some

    of my calculations relating to Professional Optical SETI.  I trust he

    will do the same, if he can draw himself away from MOP for a few

    hours, for my more recent computations relating to Amateur Optical

    SETI.


        Finally, I must acknowledge the considerable assistance of the SETI

    Institute's Robert Arnold (Research Assistant and Public Information)

    in providing me with much background information on SETI.  I hope I do

    not give him too much of a headache when he has to deal with the surge

    in national and international interest in all forms of SETI which will

    probably result from this paper.  It is highly likely that because of

    the Microwave Observing Project and this paper, 1992 is going to be 

    the Year of SETI.


    Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley

    Columbus, Ohio

    December 24, 1991

































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                                INTRODUCTION


        This paper suggests that the modern Search for Extraterrestrial

    Intelligence (SETI) [1-45,86], which was initiated by Cocconi, Morrison

    [1,13], and Drake (Project Ozma) [2,3,13] is being conducted in the

    wrong part of the electromagnetic spectrum, i.e., that SETI receivers

    are presently "tuned to the wrong frequencies".  This paper revisits a

    subject first discussed by Schwartz and Townes [46-47] thirty years ago

    and subsequently investigated by the late Shvartsman [48,50,54],

    Connes [49], Zuckerman [52], Betz [53,57] and Beskin [58].  Dr. John

    Rather (NASA-HQ) also considers that Optical SETI has much to commend

    it. [56]  According to the modern broader definition of the word

    "optical", the wavelength region embraced covers the region between

    350 nm in the ultra-violet, and far-infrared wavelengths greater than

    300,000 nm (millimeter-waves start at 1 million nanometers).


        Our Milky Way galaxy contains about 400 billion stars.  We assume,

    as does most of the SETI community, that at any time there are perhaps

    thousands or tens of thousands of technical civilizations (the Drake

    Equation, Page 71, Equ. 1) [2-39] within our own galaxy.  There

    should be at least a reasonable chance that at any time, one such

    civilization might be signalling in our direction from within a sphere

    several thousand light years in radius.  The volume of space within a

    sphere of two thousand light years in diameter contains about ten

    million stars, one million of which may be capable of supporting life.


        The sign of a mature technical civilization is not to waste power

    over empty space, but to use refined signalling techniques in

    preference to brute force.  Although some authors have suggested that

    optical ETI signals would appear in the form of bright flashing points

    of light, this author thinks it very unlikely.  The idea that such

    signals will be like heliographs or semaphores, sending out intense

    beams at Morse Code rates, is not one that should be seriously contem-

    plated.  As will be shown, there is no need to modulate the entire

    output of a star in order to be detected across the galaxy. [20,33]


        Just as on this planet, where there are a variety of communication

    techniques employed, depending on distance, bandwidth, and techno-

    logies available, there is no reason to assume that there is only one

    universal communication frequency or spectral regime employed by Extra-

    terrestrial Intelligences (ETIs).  Different applications and environ-

    ments will lead to the optimization of different technologies, so that

    there may be many "magic wavelengths or frequencies".  For example,

    because of the huge distances and lower propagation losses, radio waves

    may be better for communication between galaxies.


        If the reader does not believe that advanced extraterrestrial

    technical civilizations would have the wherewithal to aim tight

    optical beams into neighboring stars, then they need read no further.

    In correspondence with the author, Dr. Bernard Oliver, Deputy Director

    of NASA's SETI Office, has put it very strongly that ETIs would not

    have this capability.  This viewpoint has dominated SETI rationale for

    several decades, and in the author's opinion, is somewhat responsible

    for the "bad press" that the optical approach has received.


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        It is the author's view that the capability to target tight

    optical beams is probably much easier to achieve than developing

    relativistic or near-relativistic spacecraft.  The same large optical

    antenna array capability which would allow ETIs to produce narrow

    transmitter beams would also allow them to "view" planets orbiting

    nearby stars.  Over millennia they will have developed catalogs for the

    stars in their vicinity, with full details of each star's planetary

    system.  For them, the ballistic skills (point ahead targeting)

    required to land photons on a designated target, over the equivalent of

    twice the light time distance, will be relatively trivial.  This is not

    to discount the possibility that ETIs may send out space probes to

    nearby planetary systems to gather information directly.


        There is a concept inherent in the conventional SETI rationale

    which might best be termed "Signpost SETI".  This says, that the

    signals we are looking for in the microwave spectrum, may only be

    monochromatic/semi-monochromatic beacons or acquisition carriers, and

    that the main transmission channels for extraterrestrials are

    elsewhere.  If this is the case, we might find a narrow-band modulated

    microwave signal that tells us to tune to some place in the optical

    regime, and perhaps provide the "Rosetta Stone" for decoding the

    wideband optical channel.  However, it is not clear why extra-

    terrestrials would spectrally separate these signals into two different

    wavelength regimes.  Both the semi-monochromatic beacon and the main

    wideband transmission channel could be side-by-side in the optical

    spectrum (see Figure 1 below).  Indeed, there would be good signal

    processing reasons (advantages) for using what we terrenes would call a

    "pilot-tone technique", particularly for reception within an atmosphere

    (see Page 83 for a theoretical description of this technique).



                     Ep(t) *         Signal Modulation

                           *             Bandwidth

                           *          <------------->

                           *           ------------- Es(t)

                           *          |             |

                  Beacon   *          |    Signal   |

                    or     *          |    (Main    |

                Pilot-Tone *          |   Channel)  |

                           *          |             |

         ----------------------------------------------------------->

                          fp                 fs    Optical Frequency


    Figure 1 -


    Signpost SETI or pilot-tone system.  The beacon or pilot-tone carrier

    is at frequency fp and has an electric-field amplitude Ep(t), while the

    information signal with amplitude Es(t) is intensity, polarization, or

    frequency-modulated onto a signal carrier at frequency fs.  The

    frequency separation (fs-fp) may be several MHz to several GHz,

    depending upon the signal modulation bandwidth, and other factors, and

    fp may be above fs.  The ETI beacon or pilot-tone might also contain a

    simple very low bandwidth intensity or polarization modulation

    providing the Rosetta Stone for decoding the main channel.


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        Such techniques can reduce the effect of transmitter and local-

    oscillator laser phase-noise and correct for phase-noise and wavefront

    distortion produced by Earth's atmosphere, allowing more efficient

    reception with large heterodyning telescopes, i.e., reduced signal

    fading and improved mean SNR. [81-82,84]  The coherence cell size (ro)

    at visible wavelengths (Wl) is approximately 20 cm (8 inches), and is

    proportional to (Wl)^1.2.  In the infrared at 10,600 nm, ro can be as

    large as eight meters.  At the best astronomical observatories in the

    world, the spectral power in atmospheric turbulence is confined below

    30 to 50 Hz.


        Clearly, this pilot-tone technique could be used for free-space

    optical communications between space and Earth with some advantage.  It

    also reduces the differential Doppler Shift and Chirp (Drift) by the

    ratio (fs-fp)/fs; a ratio which can be of the order of 10^-8.  Note

    that the wideband optical signal might use spread-spectrum techniques,

    so that the signal energy density might be too low to be detectable.

    Without the "key" to unlock the pseudo-random sequence, we might

    mistake the main signal channel for an excess amount of random noise.


        There is something quite philosophically appealing about the pilot-

    tone technique.  It satisfies the conventional SETI rationale for the

    need of a "Signpost", while at the same time provides the means for

    more efficiently detecting the main wideband ETI channel from within a

    planetary atmosphere.



                    THE MICROWAVE OBSERVING PROJECT (MOP)


        From time to time, references will be made to NASA's Microwave

    Observing Project, otherwise known by the acronym MOP.  The objectives

    of this program are summarized as follows:


        Project Goal:  To carry out a search for microwave signals of

                       extraterrestrial intelligent origin.


        Project Objectives:


        1.  To use existing large radio telescopes, e.g. Arecibo, to carry

            out a Targeted Search of about 800 nearby solar-type stars with

            high spectral resolution of 1 Hz, and sensitivity in the region

            of 5 X 10^-27 to 1.4 X 10^-25 W/m^2, over the frequency range

            from 1 to 3 GHz.  (Ames Research Center)


        2.  To use the 34-meter telescopes of NASA's Deep Space Network

            (DSN) to carry out a Sky Survey that will examine the whole sky

            at a moderate spectral resolution of 30 Hz, and sensitivity

            2 X 10^-23 to 2 X 10^-22 W/m^2) over the frequency range from

            1 to 10 GHz.  (Jet Propulsion Laboratory - JPL)


        Duration:  1990 to 1999


        Cost:  $12.1 million for starters, $100 million over ten years.



    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 12


        As will be indicated later, the author would like to add (and has

        recommended this to the SETI Institute) that a third objective be

        added to this program, to run concurrently with the previous:


        3.  To solicit the help of dedicated groups of amateur astronomers

            and coordinate their activities to conduct with their ground-

            based optical telescopes, a low-sensitivity Targeted Search of

            about 800 nearby solar-type stars with spectral resolution

            < 1 nm, and sensitivity 10^-16 W/m^2.  For selected wavelength

            bands in the visible and near-infrared wavelength range (350 nm

            to 1,200 nm).













































    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



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    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



                          THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF

                  THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                     Volume 3, Number 6B - January 1992


                         ###########################


                              TABLE OF CONTENTS


                         ###########################


           * ASA Membership and Article Submission Information


           * The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in

             the Optical Spectrum, Part B - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                         ###########################


                         ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION


        The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic

    (EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the

    Atlantic, Incorporated.  The ASA is a non-profit organization dedicated

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    exploration, as well as the social and educational needs of its members.


        ASA membership application is open to all with an interest in

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    Members may also purchase discount subscriptions to ASTRONOMY and

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    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



        ASA Officers and Council -


        President - Don Barry

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        Treasurer - Karla Poshedly

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        Council - Jim Bitsko, Bill Black, Mike Burkhead, Bill Crane,

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        ARTICLE SUBMISSIONS -


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    Copying or reprinting of the EJASA, in part or in whole, is encouraged,

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    those of the ASA.  This Journal is Copyright (c) 1992 by the

    Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Inc.












    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



                            COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION


        This document may be freely copied to other electronic bulletin

    boards, but only in an unmodified form and in its entirety, with the

    following copyright notice attached.  No license is given to reproduce

    this document in electronic or hardcopy form for profit.  However, the

    media may reproduce short extracts for the purposes of furthering the

    Optical SETI debate.


 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 * Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley                     Copyright (c) 1992           *

 * Consultant                                                              *

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 *                                                                         *

 *                                    "Where No Photon Has Gone Before &   *

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   U.K. inquires may be made to the above U.S. address or:

 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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Version: 1.00

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      THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                         January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6B


                            Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992











              THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)

                        IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART B


                Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach




                                       by




                             Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                            FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS

                               545 Northview Drive

                               Columbus, Ohio 43209

                                  United States































    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 13


                           ASSUMPTION OF INEPTITUDE


        Unfortunately, despite declarations to the contrary, many SETI

    activists have been very anthropocentric and have in the main assumed

    that ETIs are technically inept.  The "Assumption of (Technical)

    Ineptitude" (private discussions between the author and Clive Goodall),

    not to be confused with the "Assumption of Mediocrity" [5-39] applied

    to our own emerging technical civilization, has caused a gross under-

    estimate of the technical prowess of ETIs, e.g., their capability to

    aim very high-power tight beams into the life zones of nearby stars.

    The onus will be on them to transmit the strongest signal with their

    stellar or nuclear-pumped orbital lasers.


        It is humbling to remind ourselves that just one century ago, very

    few people on this planet used electricity.  We have come a long way in

    a short time!  Yet, in the space of one hundred years, we have been

    able to send astronauts to the Moon, robot probes to other planets, and

    deploy a large space telescope in Earth orbit.  Despite the very

    unfortunate technical problems that have plagued the 2.4-meter aperture

    Hubble Space Telescope (HST), we should note that being representative

    of state-of-the-art terrene technology, it has a designed angular

    resolution of 0.043" and a designed pointing accuracy of 0.012". [59-62]


        In 1961, just after the invention of the laser and only two years

    following Cocconi and Morrison's [1] classic paper which initiated

    modern SETI, Schwartz and Townes [46-47] (of laser fame) suggested that

    in other societies, laser communications technology may have been

    developed before microwave communications.  From looking at the

    development of technology during the Twentieth Century, it is probable

    that the development of microwave and laser technology must occur

    within a short time of each other.  As Schwartz and Townes implied,

    another society, having developed laser technology first, might

    cultivate a SETI rationale which was based on the superiority of laser

    communications over its radio frequency counterpart.  It may only be a

    historical accident that the science of SETI on this planet became so

    dominated by radio astronomers.


        Even Townes and his colleagues [46-47,51-53] have been somewhat

    constrained in imagination by limiting beam divergences to be greater

    than about one second of arc.  A uniformly illuminated diffraction

    limited ten-meter diameter carbon dioxide (CO2) transmitter has a FWHM

    beamwidth equals 0.22 arc seconds (see Table 1, Page 19, and Table 2,

    Line 5, Page 22), so that even this system has a beam that is slightly

    too narrow by their definition.  Note that more recently, Betz [57] has

    reduced the technical limits on beam divergence to 0.1 arc seconds.

    When we decide what might be technically feasible in one hundred, one

    thousand, or ten thousand years, the only thing which should constrain

    our imagination are the laws of physics as we presently know them.  We

    are reminded that mere decades ago, the idea of geosynchronous

    communication satellites and men walking on the Moon was considered

    science fiction by most people.


        Although SETI is about the passive activity of listening for

    signals, otherwise it would be (and was) called CETI (Communications


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 14


    With Extraterrestrial Intelligence), how close are we to being able to

    transmit strong gigawatt-type optical signals across the galaxy?  The

    answer to this question is that we are now much closer in time to be

    in a position to do this than we are to the Industrial Revolution.

    This is practically no time at all on the Cosmic Time Scale.  Perhaps

    SETI is one way to take those Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)

    "swords" on both sides of the now defunct Iron Curtain and turn them

    into CETI "plowshares"!



                           PROFESSIONAL OPTICAL SETI


        In this paper, the model employed for the Professional Optical SETI

    analysis is based on a very modest continuous wave (C.W.) transmitter

    power of 1 kilowatt (1 kW) over a range of ten light years.  As a

    modelling convenience, it assumes symmetrical systems, i.e., that the

    receiver aperture is identical to that of the transmitter.  This

    symmetrical modelling technique is one often adopted by previous

    comparative analyses.  In reality, because by definition Extra-

    terrestrial Intelligences (ETIs) will be older and more technically

    mature civilizations, if and when we do detect ETI, it will be found

    that the alien transmitters are huge compared to our own puny receivers.


        Figure 2 is a schematic diagram showing the most important features

    of a heterodyning receiving system (Equs. 23, 32, and 34) suitable for

    Professional Optical SETI.  The optical pre-detection filter is not

    really required for SETI activities because of the excellent background

    noise rejection inherent in such systems.  In practice, such a receiver

    would at least be duplicated for the detection of two orthogonally-

    polarized or circularly-polarized signal components.


        This optical heterodyne receiver might well use a dye local-

    oscillator laser that has very narrow linewidth (< 5 kHz), and which 

    is tunable across the entire visible and near-infrared regimes.  The

    intermediate frequency (I.F.) bandwidth of such a system might be as

    high as 10 GHz.  The output of each photodetector might be taken to a

    single 10 GHz Multi-Channel Spectrum Analyzer (MCSA) which sequentially

    samples all 16,384 photodetectors in the 128 X 128 pixel array, or

    there might be one MCSA for every row or for every photodetector,

    leading to substantial reductions in search time.


        For several practical reasons, e.g., Doppler de-chirping, it is

    likely that the alternative coherent detection technique called

    "homodyne detection" (Equ. 33), which is essentially equivalent to a

    heterodyne system with a zero I.F., would not be used for the frequency

    search, though it might be employed after acquisition of an ETI signal.


        One major reason why the SETI community generally discounts the

    optical approach is the considerable amount of quantum noise generated

    by optical photons.  As we increase frequency, the number of photons

    for a given flux intensity progressively falls, so that there is a

    noise component associated with the statistics of photon arrival times,

    which exceeds the thermal kT noise.  If Bif is the electrical

    bandwidth, it is assumed that sufficient photons arrive in the observa-


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 15


                                                             I

                                                   ----------<--------

                                                  |

                  --          Beamcombiner        |

     Signal Pr   |  |           -------           |

    -----------> |  | -------> |     . | ---->> -----  PIN Photodetector

    -----------> |  | -------> |   .   | ---->> /   \  (One detector in a

    -----------> |  | -------> | .     | ---->> -----  128 X 128 array)

     Background  |  |           -------           |

         Pb       --            ^ ^ ^ ^           |        -----

               Optional         | | | |           |       |     |

               Optical          | | | |            --->---|     |---->

           Bandpass Filter      | | | | Po                |     |

                                | | | |                    -----

                             -------------         Intermediate Frequency

                            |             |      Electrical Bandpass Filter

                            |    Local    |                 Bif

                  Po >> Pr  | Oscillator  |

                            |    Laser    |

                            |             |

                             -------------

                                   |

                                   |

                                    -----------------<----------------

                                            Frequency Control


    Figure 2 -


    Coherent optical heterodyne receiver.  The diagram shows just a single

    photodetector, but in a large professional heterodyning telescope, a

    focal-plane array of about 128 X 128 photodetectors would be used to

    reduced the search time.  This would also ensure that if a star is

    centered on the array, the signal from an orbiting ETI transmitter

    would fall on the same pixel or on an adjacent one within the array

    area, depending on the distance of the star, the orbital distance and

    position of the transmitter, and its plane of ecliptic.  For each array

    pixel (photodetector), the local-oscillator power Po >> the received

    signal Pr to ensure quantum noise limited detection.  A focussed local-

    oscillator (L.O.) laser may be scanned across the photodetector array

    in synchronism with the electronic sampling of the array.  This would

    avoid the requirement for a high power L.O., and would thus eliminate

    heat dissipation problems in the array.



    tion or measurement time 1/Bif, for Gaussian and Poisson statistics to

    apply.  In practice, this means that about ten photons have to be

    detected during each measurement interval.  For the photon-starved

    situation at small and negative Carrier-To-Noise Ratios (CNRs), the

    (analog) CNR values are somewhat meaningless.


        The effective noise temperature (Equ. 30) of the 656 nm system

    modelled in this paper is 43,900 Kelvin, considerably more than the

    10 K of the microwave system.  However, it is the potential high-gain

    transmitting capability of optical antennas (Equ. 10) which can more


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 16


    than make up for this 36 dB reduction in sensitivity (36 dB increase in

    the noise floor).  As a reference performance criterion, it should be

    noted that a symmetrical microwave system based on the 300-meter

    diameter Arecibo radio telescope on the island of Puerto Rico, a 1 kW

    transmitter and a 10 K system temperature, would produce a CNR of about

    20 dB re 1 Hz (this is illustrated in Figure 4, Page 28).


        For discussions about Professional Optical SETI heterodyne

    receivers, we will often refer to the term Signal-To-Noise Ratio (SNR)

    in a generic manner as a means of denoting signal detectability.  In

    such cases, what we really mean is CNR, as the measurement is taken at

    the intermediate frequency (I.F.) before electrical demodulation

    (detection) of the signal.  In the material on Amateur Optical SETI

    photon-counting receivers, we will be dealing with the post-detection

    signal-to-noise ratio, so it is more accurately denoted by the term SNR.


        Communication engineers know that it is often expedient to

    normalize the CNR or SNR to a 1 Hz electrical bandwidth; a bandwidth

    which is thought to be substantially smaller than the minimum bin

    bandwidth required for actual SETI observations with Professional

    Optical SETI receivers.  This allows us to subtract 10 dB from the CNR

    (SNR) for each decade increase in electrical bandwidth.  For instance,

    a CNR (SNR) of 94 dB re (with respect to) 1 Hz is equivalent to 19 dB

    re 30 MHz, a figure arrived at by subtracting 10.log(30 X 10^6) from

    94 dB.  We shall be referencing these particular numbers again later.


        A bandwidth of "1 Hz" has a special significance to Microwave SETI

    researchers.  It is often the minimum bin bandwidth employed to analyze

    the received signals as dispersion effects and Doppler chirp rates in

    the low microwave region, i.e., around 1.5 GHz, would spread the most

    monochromatic of signals to that order (Table 2, Line 30, Page 22)

    shows the maximum equatorial ground-based chirp due to Earth's rotation

    to be about 0.17 Hz/s).  Thus, it is important to realize that for this

    Optical SETI analysis, the 1 Hz bandwidth is used just for the con-

    venience of normalizing the SNR.  It does not imply anything about the

    ideal electrical (I.F.) or post-detection bandwidth.  Note that in this

    study, it is generally assumed that the optical predetection bandwidth

    is at least twice the electrical or post-detection bandwidth.


        Although in Figure 2 we have indicated an optoelectronic front-end

    array, it is possible that future developments in photonic computer

    technology will allow for the employment of an all-optical receiver and

    signal processing array.


        In terms of mean transmitter power, it is useful to normalize

    the different ETI transmitters to a basic unit of 1 kW.  Again, this

    implies no preconception about the actual powers available to ETIs,

    which inevitably will be far in excess of this.  The noise level

    associated with the signal is assumed to be only that due to quantum

    shot noise.  For power-starved receiving condition, non-Poisson noise

    at optical frequencies may actually raise the noise floor and degrade

    the CNR.  In the quantum (Poisson) limited detection case, for every

    factor of ten that we increase the power, the CNR (SNR) will increase

    by 10 dB.  If the optical receiver is background or internally noise


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 17


      Relative Levels Per Pixel re 1 Hz

        |

      34 dB |___1 kW Signal                ***        1.6 X 10^-15 W______

            |                              *S*

            |                              *I* CNR = 34 dB re 1 Hz

            |                              *G*

       0 dB |___Quantum Shot Noise_________*N*________6.3 X 10^-19 W/Hz___

            |                              .A.

            |                              .L.

            |                              . .

     -32 dB |___Planckian Continuum__      . .      __4.0 X 10^-22 W/Hz___

            |                        \     . .     /

            |                         \    . .    /

     -52 dB |___Fraunhofer Dark Line_  \___._.___/  __4.0 X 10^-24 W/Hz___

            |                         <----------->

            |     H_alpha (656.2808 nm) Bandwidth = 0.402 nm = 280 GHz

     -72 dB |___Day_Sky_______________________________4.0 X 10^-26 W/Hz___

            |

            |

            |

            |

            |

    -154 dB |___Night_Sky_____________________________2.5 X 10^-34 W/Hz___

            |

            |                            H_alpha

             -------------------------------------------------------------

                                 Wavelength or Frequency


    Figure 3 -


    Spectral levels at a range of ten light years, per diffraction limited

    pixel.  The normalized transmitter power is 1 kW at 656 nm, and various

    noise sources for a space-based or adaptive ground-based heterodyne

    observatory are indicated.  Both the transmitter and receiver are of

    10 meters aperture and are assumed perfect.  Receiver quantum

    efficiency equals 0.5.  For convenience, the quantum noise level is

    taken as a reference level from which the signal and other noise

    sources are measured.  Fraunhofer dark lines are typically 10 to 20 dB

    below the Planckian continuum level.



    limited, the CNR (SNR) will increase by 20 dB.  Figure 3 is a graph of

    signal and relative noise spectral levels for an imagined symmetrical

    visible SETI system with heterodyne receiver (Equs. 32 and 34).


        One of the main benefits from the optical approach is its ability

    to sustain wideband communications over vast distances with very high

    Effective Isotropic Radiated Powers (EIRPs), but using relatively small

    apertures (Equ. 10).  The latter attribute is particularly useful for

    spacecraft applications. [63-66]  The EIRP is the apparent power that

    the transmitter would have to emit for a given received signal

    intensity, if it was an isotropic radiator, i.e., if it radiated energy

    uniformly in all directions, instead of confining the energy to a

    narrow beam.  It is given by the product of the antenna gain and


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 18


    transmitter power (Equ. 11).  The 656 nm system has a Full Width Half

    Maximum (FWHM) beamwidth of 0.014 arcseconds (Page 73), so that over

    ten light years, the beam diameter has expanded to about 0.04

    Astronomical Units (A.U.); roughly two percent of the diameter of

    Earth's solar orbit (Page 74)!


        For many years the author had been perplexed by the fact the optical

    approach to SETI had been ignored.  There was very much a feeling of

    "What did the SETI community know that he did not?".  Investigations

    over the past eighteen months indicate that to a large extent, the

    answer to this paradox was that the SETI community had simply refused

    to believe in the possibility that ETIs could aim narrow beams, such as

    the 0.04 A.U. dia. beam just described, and hit their targeted planet.



                                PROJECT CYCLOPS


        In this paper, many references are made to the Project Cyclops [5]

    study and the effect that it has had on SETI thinking over the past

    two decades.  Table 1 is taken from this report, which illustrates this

    author's view that Cyclops has been at least partially responsible for

    the lack of interest in the optical approach to SETI after the early

    1970s.


        The first column A is the most revealing in this comparison table,

    in that it models an ETI transmitter at the Nd:YAG (Neodymium: Yttrium-

    Aluminum-Garnet) laser wavelength of 1,060 nm, that has an aperture of

    22.5 cm!  As can be seen, in the Cyclops analysis, the onus for

    detecting a strong signal has been placed at the receiver end of the

    system, where by definition, the technology available would be far

    inferior to that at the transmitter.  The resulting huge multi-mirror

    receiving telescope system is thus incredibly expensive.


        The performance of the 1.06 um (1.06 microns) and 10.6 um systems

    modelled in the Cyclops study have been severely compromised by

    restricting the transmitters and receivers to ground-based operation

    within terrestrial-type atmosphere, and limiting beamwidths to

    one second of arc.  As previously mentioned, the atmospheric coherence

    cell size (ro) is about 20 cm (8") at Wl = 0.5 um, and is proportional

    to Wl^(6/5).  The A infrared systems are essentially state-of-the-art

    for 1971.  The B infrared systems are futuristic for 1971.  If we

    assume that the 1 ns pulses have a repetition rate of one per second in

    the case of the first 1.06 um Nd:YAG system (Optical System A), the

    average power is only a modest 1 kW.  One does wonder though, what a

    peak power of 1 Terrawatt (1,000 GW) would do to a 22.5 cm diameter

    transmitting mirror, or the air contained within the telescope!



                              SETI COMPARISONS


        This paper describes two basic types of Optical SETI receiver; the

    Professional (coherent) heterodyne system and the Amateur (incoherent)

    photon-counting system.  However, there is no reason why a professional

    receiver could not use photon-counting, and vice versa, why an amateur


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

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==========================================================================

  Table 1  Project Cyclops comparison scenarios

==========================================================================

                       OPTICAL            INFRARED            MICROWAVE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

PARAMETER            A         B         A         B         A         B

Wavelength           1.06 um   1.06 um   10.6 um   10.6 um   3 cm      3 cm

==========================================================================

                                 TRANSMITTER

==========================================================================

Antenna Diameter    22.5 cm   22.5 cm    2.25 m    2.25 m    100 m     3 km*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

No. Of Elements      1         1         1         1         1         900

Element Diameter     22.5 cm   22.5 cm   2.25 m    2.25 m    100 m     100 m

Antenna Gain     4.4x10^11 4.4x10^11 4.4x10^11 4.4x10^11 1.1x10^8 9.8x10^10

Peak or CW Power, W  10^12     10^5      10^5      10^5      10^5      10^5

Modulation           Pulse     Pulse     Pulse     PSK       PSK       PSK

Pulse, s             10^-9     1         1         1         1         1

Energy per Bit, J    10^3      10^5      10^5      10^5      10^5      10^5

EIRP, W          4.4x10^23 4.4x10^16 4.4x10^16 4.4x10^16 1.1x10^13 9.9x10^15

Beamwidth            1"        1"        1"        1"        64"       1"

==========================================================================

                                   RECEIVER

==========================================================================

Antenna Diameter     100 m     100 m     100 m     2.25 m    100 m     3 km*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

No. Of Elements      400       400       1975      1         1         900

Element Diameter     5 m       5 m       2.25 m    2.25 m    100 m     100 m

Atmosphere Tran.     0.7       0.7       0.5       0.5       1         1

Quantum Effic.       0.4       0.1       0.2       0.2       0.9       0.9

Solar Background 1.2x10^-3     36    1.7x10^-3   6x10^-7     -----     -----

Noise Temp., K       13,600    13,600    1360      1360      20        20

RF Bandwidth         1 GHz     3 MHz     3 kHz     1 Hz      1 Hz      1 Hz

Detection Method     Photon    Photon    Sq. Law   Synch.    Synch.   Synch.

Range Limit (L.Y.)   26        24        22        41        500     450,000

State Of The Art?    ?         No        ?         No        Yes       Yes

All Weather?         No        No        No        No        Yes       Yes

==========================================================================


    * Array spread out to 6.4 km diameter to avoid vignetting.


    Data taken from Table 5-3, page 50, July 1973 revised edition

    (CR 114445) of the Project Cyclops design study of a system for

    detecting extraterrestrial life. [5]  This study was prepared under

    Stanford/NASA/Ames Research Center 1971 summer faculty fellowship

    program in engineering systems design.  Note that at the time the

    Cyclops study was done, the field of "optoelectronics" (photonics) had

    not yet really begun.  Thus, what the Cyclops study called "Optical" is

    really a superset of both "near-infrared", and "infrared".  In this

    Optical SETI paper, "optical" covers the entire spectrum from ultra-

    violet to the far-infrared.  The near-infrared 1.06 um ETI transmitter

    for the Optical System A is only 22.5 cm in diameter, and is modelled

    to be putting out 1 kW pulses of 1 ns duration, with a peak power of

    one trillion watts and corresponding peak EIRP of 4.4 X 10^23 W!


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 20


    receiver could not use heterodyne detection.  The definition adopted

    here is one based purely on performance and cost grounds.


        We now continue with the comparisons between various type of

    professional heterodyning SETI systems as tabulated in Table 2

    (Page 22).  It should be noted that while the microwave system in this

    table is based on a 100-meter diameter dish, the microwave system

    modelled in Figure 4 (Page 28) is based on a 300-meter diameter

    Arecibo-type dish.  The 100-meter diameter dish system of Table 2,

    corresponds to the Microwave System A modelled in the Cyclops study

    (Table 1, Page 19), each dish being one of up to nine hundred similar

    dishes making up the Cyclops array.


        The infrared telescope system is very similar to ones previously

    modelled by Townes, Betz, and Zuckerman. [46-47,51-53,57]  Note that by

    increasing the 10,600 nm infrared transmitting and receiving

    telescopes' diameters to twenty meters, the SNR (CNR) obtained can be

    increased to the same value (34 dB) indicated for the 656 nm visible

    system (Table 2, Line 26).  Since the Carbon Dioxide (CO2) laser is

    very efficient, coherent, and CO2 is likely to be readily available

    where life becomes established, 10,600 nm may be considered a "magic

    optical wavelength". [46-58]  This wavelength is also capable of

    propagating with little attenuation across substantial portions of the

    Milky Way galaxy.  The beam divergence is such as to make the targeting

    of nearby stars easier.  There is also an approximately sixty percent

    atmospheric window at this wavelength.


        All these telescopes, save for the Cyclops Array (Table 1) [5], may

    be considered as "puny" for an Advanced Technical Civilization (ATC),

    but are representative of state-of-the-art terrene technology,

    technology available either now or within the next decade.  The results

    are based on "perfect" space-based systems (save for the daylight

    background factor), so in practice, several dB may have to be taken off

    the calculated SNR to account for imperfections, and atmospheric

    absorption and turbulence, if ground-based.  Because optical heterodyne

    receivers are proposed for the professional optical systems, Planckian

    starlight and daylight have no effect on ground-based system

    performance if the local-oscillator power per pixel (per photodetector)

    is a lot greater than the background power.  Large ground-based optical

    telescopes would likely use adaptive deformable mirror and laser guide-

    star technology for removing the "twinkle" from the star and

    transmitter's image. [68-70]  The performance of such telescopes should

    exceed the theoretical performance of the HST. [59-62]  This technology

    may be available within five years, and will be described in more

    detail later.


        The "pilot-tone" technique briefly described on Page 10, used in

    conjunction with a photodetector array, might allow the implementation

    of a Maximal Ratio Predetection Diversity receiver.  This leads to a

    very simple adaptive receiver which could be operated both during the

    day and night.  As previously indicated, a more detailed description of

    how this operates may be found in Appendix A (Page 83).  It should be

    kept in mind that getting a "perfect" image of a star and/or an ETI

    transmitter is a more rigorous pursuit than just collecting all the


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 21


    photons emitted by the ETI transmitter, wherever they fall within the

    photodiode array area.


        Table 2 (Page 22) summarizes the salient points of the comparison

    between different electromagnetic communications technologies as

    applied to SETI, using heterodyning telescopes. [71-79]  A preferred

    wavelength, not shown in this table, might be 1,060 nm, corresponding

    to the Nd:YAG transitions in the near-infrared.  The corresponding SNR

    for a 10-meter diameter 1,060 nm system is 32.1 dB.


        Given a modest extension to our technology over the next century,

    such wideband terrene interstellar links should become feasible,

    though they would use digital modulation and compression techniques

    to reduce the required bandwidth and enhance the SNR.  The apparent

    visual intensity of the 1 GW transmitter, the power output of a

    typical Twentieth Century terrene power station, would rise from an

    apparent magnitude of +22.7 to +7.7.  This is still below unaided human

    eye visibility (sixth magnitude) even if not obscured by the light of

    its star, and amounts to only 0.62% of the star's visual intensity (not

    corrected for wavelength).  This result demonstrates that references in

    the literature to the fact that such signals have never been seen by

    the unaided eye, or detected in low-resolution spectrographs, proves

    nothing about whether ETIs are transmitting in the visible spectrum.

    Simply put, a powerful communications signal is still weak compared to

    a star's (integrated over wavelength) output radiated in our direction.



        Table 2, Line 11 -


        The reader is left to judge whether ATCs (ETIs) would have the

    wherewithal to aim narrow optical beams over tens and hundreds of

    light years and still be sure that their signal would strike a planet

    orbiting within the targeted star's biosphere (zone of life).  Perhaps

    it is this assumption alone that is the key to the efficacy of the

    optical approach to SETI.  The option is available to defocus

    (decollimate) the transmitted beam when targeting nearby stars.  In

    such a situation, the signal strength would be weakened (reduced EIRP)

    for nearby target systems, but would remain relatively constant when

    operated on more remote targets out to distances of several thousand

    light years.  It does not make sense to cripple, which is the result of

    Dr. Bernard Oliver's approach, [5] the long-range performance of Extra-

    terrestrial Intelligence (ETI) transmitters just because the beams

    happen to be too narrow for nearby stars.


        Clifford Singer [15] has described how superior ETI technical

    prowess for transmitting microwave signals at certain preferred times

    related to the targeted star's proper motion can lead to an enhanced

    transmission efficiency, making it more likely that the recipient

    will be able to detect those signals.  In a similar vein, Filippova and

    others [55] have suggested that ETIs might make use of the moment of

    opposition to ensure that a narrow optical beam aimed at a star would

    be detectable at a target planet approaching opposition.  Dr. John

    Rather, in the August, 1991 issue of the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH

    INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS) [56], describes huge Optical ETI


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

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  =========================================================================

  Table 2  Summary of SETI performance for (symmetrical) professional

           heterodyne communication systems over a range of 10 light years.

  =========================================================================

                               MICROWAVE SETI       OPTICAL SETI

      PARAMETER                 SINGLE DISH    INFRARED       VISIBLE

  =========================================================================

   1. Wavelength                0.20 m         10,600 nm      656 nm

   2. Frequency, Hz             1.50 X 10^9    2.83 X 10^13   4.57 X 10^14

  =========================================================================

                                  TRANSMITTERS

  -------------------------------------------------------------------------

   3. Diameter, m               100            10             10

   4. Gain, dB                  63.9           129.4          153.6

   5. FWHM Beamwidth, arcsecs.  421            0.223          0.0138

   6. Power, kW                 1              1              1

   7. EIRP, W                   2.47 X 10^9    8.78 X 10^15   2.29 X 10^18

  =========================================================================

                                    RECEIVERS

  -------------------------------------------------------------------------

   8. Diameter, m               100            10             10

   9. Gain, dB                  63.9           129.4          153.6

  10. FWHM Beamwidth, arcsecs.  421            0.223          0.0138

  11. FWHM Diameter, A.U.       1,290          0.684          0.0423

  12. Intensity, W/m^2          2.19 X 10^-26  7.81 X 10^-20  2.04 X 10^-17

  13. Signal, W                 1.72 X 10^-22  6.13 X 10^-18  1.60 X 10^-15

  14. Photon Count, s^-1        NA             163            2,640

  15. Equivalent Magnitude      NA             NA             +22.7

  16. Quantum Efficiency        NA             0.5            0.5

  17. Effec. Noise Temp., K     10             2,719          43,900

  18. Planckian, W/m^2.Hz*      8.80 X 10^-33  1.07 X 10^-25  2.74 X 10^-24

  19. Star Stellar Magnitude    NA             NA             +2.2

  20. Relative Brightness, %    NA             NA             6.2 X 10^-7

  21. Alien Planet Magnitude    NA             NA             +24

  22. SPR, dB*                  64.0           55.7           65.7

  23. Minimum SPR, dB*          64.0           69.5           115.7

  24. Daylight, W/m^2.sr.nm     NA             2 X 10^-3      1 X 10^-1

  25. SDR, dB*                  NA             50.6           106.0

  -------------------------------------------------------------------------

  26. SNR, dB*                  1.0            22.1           34.2

  -------------------------------------------------------------------------

  27. Radial Doppler,  Hz       1.0 X 10^5     1.9 X 10^9     3.1 X 10^10

  28. Orbital Doppler, Hz       1.5 X 10^5     2.8 X 10^9     4.6 X 10^10

  29. Synchronous Chirp, Hz/s   1.1 X 10^0     2.1 X 10^4     3.4 X 10^5

  30. Ground-Based Chirp, Hz/s  1.7 X 10^-1    3.2 X 10^3     5.1 X 10^4

  31. Symbiotic Cost, $M        2              20             20

  32. Ground-Based Cost, $M     200            200            200

  33. Space-Based Cost, $M      100            10,000         10,000

  =========================================================================


      FWHM = Full Width Half Maximum (3 dB beamwidth).

      1 Astronomical Unit (A.U.) = 1.496 X 10^11 m.

      1 Light Year (L.Y.) = 9.461 X 10^15 m = 63,239 A.U.

      1 parsec (psc) = 3.26 L.Y.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 23


        * Signal-To-Noise (SNR) and Signal-To-Planck/Daylight (SPR and SDR)

    Ratios assume polarized starlight and background, with no Fraunhofer

    dark-line suppression (typically 10 to 20 dB).


        Signal-To-Noise Ratios (SNRs) in the galactic plane fall at the

    rate of 20 dB per decade of range (see Equ. 38), out to approximately

    one thousand light years in the visible regime, where attenuation by

    gas and dust begins to become significant.  The attenuation in the

    visible, of 4 dB per three thousand light years (equivalent to a one

    stellar magnitude reduction in brightness), drops significantly away

    from the galactic plane.



        The following numbers refer to the line numbers given in Table 2

    and give a more detailed description of the parameters:


        5.  Full Width Half Maximum (FWHM) far-field beamwidth (Equ. 4).


        8.  The Cyclops Array proposed in 1971 consisted of nine hundred

            100-meter diameter dishes (of the type modelled in the table)

            covering an area 6.4 kilometers in diameter.


       11.  Full Width Half Maximum (FWHM) size of received beam (Equ. 5).


       14.  The rate at which photons are detected (Equ. 36).


       15.  Apparent visual magnitude of transmitter is not corrected for

            visible wavelength (Equ. 2).


       20.  Relative brightness of transmitter in comparison to unpolarized

            Planckian starlight from a G-type star (black-body at 5,800 K).


       21.  Apparent Stellar Magnitude of reflected Planckian starlight

            from a Jupiter-size extrasolar planet.  Note that if we want to

            detect an extrasolar planet directly, it is easier to do so by

            detecting its emitted heat in the infrared than by detecting

            reflected light in the visible.


       22.  Signal-To-Planck Ratio (SPR) for a solar-type star at the

            heterodyned I.F. frequency, assuming star and transmitter are

            not separately resolved.


       23.  Minimum Signal-To-Planck Ratio (SPR) for a solar-type star at

            the heterodyned I.F. frequency, assuming star and transmitter

            are separately resolved (Equ. 9).


       24.  Background daylight sky radiance for ground-based visible and

            infrared telescopes.  For the latter, the 300 K temperature of

            the atmosphere presents a relatively constant 24 hour/day

            background.


       25.  Signal-To-Daylight Ratio (SDR) per pixel for diffraction-limited

            ground-based visible and infrared telescopes.



    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 24


       26.  For convenience, SNRs (CNRs) are normalized to a 1 Hz

            electrical bandwidth.  The value for the microwave system is

            given by Equ. 29.  The values for the optical systems are given

            by Equs. 32 and 34.


       27.  Typical Doppler Shift (+/-) due to line-of-sight relative

            motions between stars at 20 km/s (Equ. 39).


       28.  Maximum local Doppler Shift (+/-) due to motion of transmitter/

            receiver around solar-type star (1 A.U. orbit).


       29.  Maximum local Doppler Drift (+/-) for transmitter/receiver in

            geosynchronous orbit around Earth-type planet (Equ. 40).


       30.  Maximum local Doppler Drift (+/-) for a ground-based equatorial

            transmitter/receiver on an Earth-type planet.


       31.  Approximate ground-based receiver cost (millions), assuming

            re-use or sharing of existing observatories in each hemisphere.


       32.  Approximate ground-based receiver cost (millions), assuming a

            new dedicated (adaptive) telescope in each hemisphere.


       33.  Approximate receiver cost (millions) for a single space-based

            telescope.  A very conservative estimate has been used.


    transmitting arrays which are of planetary size, sending out powerful

    Free-Electron Laser beams to an enormous number of stars simultan-

    eously.  Huge arrays can provide an extended Rayleigh (near-field)

    range so that the flux densities remain constant (the inverse square

    law does not apply) out to considerable distances (Equ. 7, Page 74).



        Table 2, Line 15 -


        In this table, the apparent visual magnitude and brightness of a

    star, planet, or transmitter, is given for comparison purposes, and 

    is defined only for visible wavelengths, since infrared light is

    invisible.  The apparent visual magnitude of the transmitter is

    essentially independent of the optical detection bandwidth as long as

    it is equal to or greater than the signal bandwidth, i.e., it is the

    same for an optical bandwidth of 1 Hz, 1 MHz, or 1 THz; these band-

    widths being much less than that of the human eye.



        Table 2, Line 20 -


        This shows the apparent visual intensity of the transmitter with

    respect to the alien star (Equ. 2).  If the 656 nm 1 kW transmitter

    power is increased by six orders of magnitude to 1 GW, the received

    signal will increase to 1.6 nW (2.6 X 10^9 photons detected per

    second), and the Carrier-To-Noise Ratio (CNR) will increase to 94 dB.

    In a 30 MHz bandwidth this CNR will fall to 19 dB.  This is more than

    adequate to transmit a standard analog NTSC/PAL/SECAM F.M. video


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 25


    signal over 10 light years, though at a range of 100 light years the

    CNR would fall to an unusable -1 dB (the F.M. threshold is typically

    7 to 10 dB).



        Table 2, Line 23 -


        The Signal-To-Planck Ratio (SPR) on this line takes into account

    the ability of large diffraction-limited optical telescopes to

    spatially separate in the focal plane, the image of the transmitted

    signal from the image of the aliens' star (Equs. 8 and 9).  This leads

    to the Signal-To-Planckian Ratio (SPR) being about 10 dB greater than

    the Signal-To-Daylight Ratio (SDR).  Clearly, even when the signal

    source and Planckian noise (Equ. 3) are not optically separable, the

    ratio of the signal to the Planckian background noise is much greater

    than the quantum shot noise SNR, so it is not limiting on performance.


        Contrary to statements in the literature [12], there may be no need

    to select a laser wavelength to coincide with a Fraunhofer line if

    optical heterodyne reception is assumed.  This is really useful only

    when incoherent optical detection techniques are employed (see the

    later material on Amateur Optical SETI) with their relatively wideband

    optical filters.  However, it might be advisable to avoid bright

    emission lines that rise substantially above the continuum level.


        For an advanced technical society, a laser transmitting telescope

    is only "slightly" more difficult to construct than a microwave

    transmitting dish, though Isaac Asimov appeared to think otherwise in

    the late 1970s.  Towards the end of his 1979 book, EXTRATERRESTRIAL

    CIVILIZATIONS [12] (page 263), Asimov says:  "With laser light we come

    closer to a practical signaling device than anything yet mentioned, 

    but even a laser signal originating from some planet would, at great

    distances, be drowned out by the general light of the star the planet

    circles."  He goes on to say:  "One possibility that has been suggested

    is this:  The spectra of Sun-type stars have numerous dark lines

    representing missing photons - photons that have been preferentially

    absorbed by specific atoms in the stars' atmospheres.  Suppose a

    planetary civilization sends out a strong laser beam at the precise

    energy level of one of the prominent dark lines of the star's spectrum.

    That would brighten that dark line...."  Asimov went on to imply that a

    laser system was complicated and that no civilization would be expected

    to use the harder method if a simpler (microwave) method is available.


        This erroneous idea that laser transmitters have to outshine stars

    to be detectable has unfortunately been accepted by many in the SETI

    community.  Dr. Jill Tarter [24] (Chapter 14, SETI: THE FARTHEST

    FRONTIER, Page 192) has said that "Any optical communications signal

    coming from a planet circling a distant star would have to outshine the

    star itself in order for us to detect it".  As we have seen, this is

    simply not true.  Indeed, as we shall show later, even small incoherent

    receivers with optical bandwidths as large as 100 GHz can produce

    electronically detectable signals at intensities considerably below

    that of nearby stars.  Note that this statement has nothing to do with

    the assumed technical beaming prowess of ETIs, only that a visible


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 26


     wavelength signal strong enough for good communications, is still weak

     compared to a star's visual brightness (intensity).


        With optical heterodyne receivers, whose performance is essentially

    independent of the optical pre-mixing bandwidth (the effective optical

    bandwidth for background noise calculations is equal to the electrical

    intermediate frequency bandwidth), there does not appear to be any

    necessity to operate within a Fraunhofer dark absorption line in order

    to avail ourselves of 10 to 20 dB of Planckian continuum noise

    suppression.  The "magic-wavelength" would thus be determined only by

    the availability of highly efficient and coherent laser frequencies.



        Table 2, Line 25 -


        The high Signal-To-Daylight (background) ratio indicates that

    Optical SETI is one of the few branches of optical astronomy, save for

    solar astronomy, which can be conducted during daylight hours under a

    clear, blue Earth sky.  Since the background detected per diffraction

    limited pixel is essentially independent of aperture, this ratio

    (shown for 45 degrees to the zenith) is proportional to the receiving

    telescope's aperture area, as is the quantum SNR.  The Signal-To-

    Nightlight ratio for ground-based observatories is some 80 dB greater.


        Thus, it is suggested that Optical SETI observations with the

    great optical telescopes of Earth could be conducted during daylight

    hours while conventional astronomy is conducted at night.  Also,

    telescopes which have been decommissioned due to light pollution

    effects might be brought back into service.  A future symbiotic

    relationship (sharing of facilities) between Optical SETI and

    conventional astronomy, could allow Optical SETI to be conducted for

    one-tenth the cost indicated on Line 32 for dedicated observatories,

    i.e., for about twenty million dollars (United States currency).



        Table 2, Line 26 -


        This is the bottom line, showing the SNR (CNR) normalized to a

    1 Hz bandwidth.  The 34 dB CNR for the 656 nm system corresponds to a

    photon detection rate of 2,640 per second (Equ. 36).  For practical

    Professional Optical SETI searches, we should be looking for signals

    with minimum bandwidths of about 100 kHz.  As long as the Signal-To-

    Planck and Signal-To-Daylight ratios are larger than the quantum SNR,

    the former do not reduce the system performance.  It should be noted

    that at a frequency of 1.5 GHz (wavelength = 20 cm), the full

    6.4-kilometer diameter microwave Cyclops Project [5], which in 1971

    would have cost about ten billion dollars, only achieves an SNR of

    60 dB (see Table 1, Page 19).  This is about 26 dB greater than for a

    10-meter diameter symmetrical visible system.


        Other than the fact that interstellar absorption at microwave

    frequencies for distances in excess of a few thousand light years is

    significantly less than in the visible spectrum, the Microwave Cyclops

    system has little to commend it for communications within the solar


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 27


    neighborhood, particularly as the cost of the receiver is about one

    hundred times that of a single-aperture ground-based optical counter-

    part.  This is good grounds for thinking "small is beautiful".  For

    some strange reason, while free-space laser communications appears to

    be fine for future terrene GEO (Geosynchronous Earth Orbit) to LEO

    (Low Earth Orbit) and deep-space communications (much of this work is

    being coordinated by NASA [63-66]), the SETI community appears to be

    convinced that ETIs would not use such technology for interstellar

    communications!  This is illogical.  A presently favored operating

    wavelength for terrene free-space communications systems is 530 nm

    (green), obtained by frequency-doubling the 1,060 nm wavelength

    produced by a laser-diode pumped Nd:YAG laser.


        As previously mentioned, terrene SETI programs appear to have been

    distorted by poor assumptions in the Cyclops study (see Table 1,

    Page 19). [5]  As we showed earlier, the efficacy of the optical

    approach was severely hampered by constraining the near-infrared

    transmitting telescope size to 22.5 cm.  It boggles the mind to think

    that ETIs would be trying to contact us with their equivalent of a

    Celestron or Meade telescope.  This would put the onus on us to build

    very large and expensive multi-aperture receiving telescopes to pick up

    their weak signals; surely the very opposite would be the case!  The

    Cyclops study was unable even to predict the rise in ascendancy of the

    ubiquitous semiconductor chip over the following five years, and the

    effect it would have on SETI signal processing, even though integrated

    circuits were being developed in the editors' backyard!


        Present-day experimental ground-based free-space communications

    links are already using receiving telescope apertures as large as

    1.5 meters. [66]  Since the overall performance of symmetrical systems

    is proportional to the telescope diameter raised to the sixth to eighth

    power (allowing for power density limitations due to heating effects

    at the transmitter mirror), poor estimations about transmitting and

    receiving telescope apertures can drastically skew a comparative

    systems analysis.  In practice, transmitting and receiving telescopes

    are likely to be extremely asymmetric.  If we do discover an optical

    ETI signal in the next few decades, it will probably be found to have

    been transmitted by a huge optical array, while our receiving antenna

    will be a relatively puny telescope.


        Figure 4 shows a graph of received signal spectral density,

    superimposed on the Planckian spectral density curve for a (solar-type)

    black body radiator at a temperature of 5,778 K.  The microwave system

    performance shown in this graph is based on the 300-meter diameter

    Arecibo telescope; producing a CNR some 19 dB greater than for the

    100-meter radio telescope system modelled in Table 2 (Page 22).


        The reader is encouraged to compare this graph to that given in

    FIRST CONTACT [26] (Chapter 4, Page 151, by Dr. Michael Klein).  The

    first impressions from that graph (Figure 1 of Chapter 4) is again

    that optical communications are useless.  This is far from the truth.

    Indeed, the graph is very misleading.  One might be forgiven for

    thinking that in this model the ETIs are using Compact Disc-type

    laser-diodes and/or hobby model-type telescopes!  The assumed


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 28


    Spectral Density, W/m^2.Hz

      |

    10^-15 |

           |                              EIRP = 2.3 X 10^18 W  23rd Mag.

           |                                                  *

           |                    EIRP = 8.7 X 10^15 W          * CNR = 34 dB

           |                                        *         *         .

    10^-20 |                            CNR = 22 dB *         *.    Quantum

           |                                        *.        *      Noise

           |                              .         *         *

           |                                        *         #656 nm Beacon

           | EIRP = 2.2 X 10^10 W                   *    #   |  #(10 m Dia.)

    10^-25 |       *               10,600 nm Beacon #        | |

           |       * CNR = 20 dB   (10 m Dia.)  #            |V| #

           |    . .*. . . . . . .           #                |I| 2nd Mag.

           |       * Temp. = 10 K      #    ^                |S|  #Starlight

           |       *              #         |                |I|

    10^-30 |       *         #          Planckian            |B|   #

           |       *    #              Black Body            |L|

           |       # 1.5 GHz Beacon       Curve              |E|    #

           |   #     (300 m Dia.)                            | |

           |#                                                |L|     #

    10^-35 |                                                 |I|

           |                                                 |G|      #

           |                                                 |H|

           |       Microwave      Millimeter      Infrared   |T| Ultra #

           |                                                 | | Violet

    10^-40  ----------------------------------------------------------------

         10^8   10^9   10^10   10^11   10^12   10^13   10^14   10^15   10^16


                                    Frequency, Hz


    Figure 4 -


    Spectral density and interstellar CNR for 1 kW (SETI) signals at

    ten light years.  Quantum Efficiency at Visible and Infrared = 0.5.

    Microwave system is based on 300-meter diameter Arecibo-type

    telescopes.  Optical systems are based on perfect 10-meter diameter

    telescopes as modelled in Table 2.  The Carrier-To-Noise Ratios (CNRs)

    are normalized to a 1 Hz bandwidth.  The EIRP of a solar-type star =

    3.9 X 10^26 W, and has an apparent magnitude equal to 2.2.



    optical EIRPs are much too low.  Also, the graph is plotted in terms

    of EIRP, and therefore exaggerates the efficacy of the microwave

    approach for an electronic receiver (instead of an observer), because

    it does not show the typical 10 K noise floor of a high-quality

    microwave receiver, only the radio brightness of a quiet G-type star.

    The latter is about 54 dB beneath the 10 K systems noise floor, as

    shown in Figure 4, and could only be detected after considerable signal

    integration.  At 1.5 GHz, it is generally the Cosmic Background, i.e.,

    the 2.73 K aftermath of the theoretical Big Bang, and the electronic

    noise in the microwave front-end that limits signal detectability, not

    Planckian radio noise from the star.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



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    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



                          THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF

                  THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                     Volume 3, Number 6C - January 1992


                         ###########################


                              TABLE OF CONTENTS


                         ###########################


           * ASA Membership and Article Submission Information


           * The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in

             the Optical Spectrum, Part C - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                         ###########################


                         ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION


        The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic

    (EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the

    Atlantic, Incorporated.  The ASA is a non-profit organization dedicated

    to the advancement of amateur and professional astronomy and space

    exploration, as well as the social and educational needs of its members.


        ASA membership application is open to all with an interest in

    astronomy and space exploration.  Members receive the Journal of the

    ASA (hardcopy sent through United States Mail - Not a duplicate of this

    Electronic Journal) and the Astronomical League's REFLECTOR magazine.

    Members may also purchase discount subscriptions to ASTRONOMY and

    SKY & TELESCOPE magazines.


        For information on membership, you may contact the Society at any

    of the following addresses:


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        or telephone the Society Recording at (404) 264-0451 to leave your

    address and/or receive the latest Society news.








    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



        ASA Officers and Council -


        President - Don Barry

        Vice President - Nils Turner

        Secretary - Ken Poshedly

        Treasurer - Karla Poshedly

        Board of Advisors - Bill Bagnuolo, Jim Bitsko, Eric Greene

        Council - Jim Bitsko, Bill Black, Mike Burkhead, Bill Crane,

                  Toni Douglas, Ruth Greene, Larry Klaes, Tano Scigliano,

                  John Stauter, Gary Thompson, Bob Vickers


        ARTICLE SUBMISSIONS -


        Article submissions to the EJASA on astronomy and space exploration

    are most welcome.  Please send your on-line articles in ASCII format to

    Larry Klaes, EJASA Editor, at the following net addresses or the above

    Society addresses:


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        or - ...!decwrl!mtwain.enet.dec.com!klaes

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        Telephone Number: (508) 493-3283


        You may also use the above addresses for EJASA back issue requests,

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        When sending your article submissions, please be certain to include

    either a network or regular mail address where you can be reached, a

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        Submissions are welcome for consideration.  Articles submitted,

    unless otherwise stated, become the property of the Astronomical

    Society of the Atlantic, Inc.  Though the articles will not be used for

    profit, they are subject to editing, abridgment, and other changes.

    Copying or reprinting of the EJASA, in part or in whole, is encouraged,

    provided clear attribution is made to the Astronomical Society of the

    Atlantic, the Electronic Journal, and the author(s).  Opinions

    expressed in the EJASA are those of the authors' and not necessarily

    those of the ASA.  This Journal is Copyright (c) 1992 by the

    Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Inc.












    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



                            COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION


        This document may be freely copied to other electronic bulletin

    boards, but only in an unmodified form and in its entirety, with the

    following copyright notice attached.  No license is given to reproduce

    this document in electronic or hardcopy form for profit.  However, the

    media may reproduce short extracts for the purposes of furthering the

    Optical SETI debate.


 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 * Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley                     Copyright (c) 1992           *

 * Consultant                                                              *

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      THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                          January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6C


                             Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992











              THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)

                        IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART C


                Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach




                                       by




                             Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                            FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS

                               545 Northview Drive

                               Columbus, Ohio 43209

                                  United States































    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 29


                                    LASERS


        Table 3 gives a list of many of the more important laser types

    presently known. [79]  As previously mentioned, the CO2 wavelength of

    10,600 nm has been identified as an "optical magic wavelength".

    [46-47,51-53,57]  However, there are many laser wavelengths in the

    visible and infrared spectrums that might be suitable for ETI trans-

    mitters and local-oscillators.  We should not discount the possibility

    that ETIs may use efficient frequency-doubled lasers, so we might

    consider exploring the visible spectrum for near-infrared lasers at

    half the wavelengths quoted below.  For example, the 532 nm wavelength

    corresponding to the frequency-doubled Nd:YAG 1,064 nm transition may

    be a suitable wavelength; one that is presently favored for terrene

    optical communications.



    =====================================================================

   |  Table 3  Important laser types and wavelengths                     |

   |=====================================================================|

   |               Type               |          Wavelength (nm)         |

   |----------------------------------|----------------------------------|

   | Free-Electron                    | Ultra-violet to far-infrared*    |

   | Krypton-Fluoride Excimer         | 249                              |

   | Xenon-Chloride Excimer           | 308                              |

   | Nitrogen Gas (N2)                | 337                              |

   | Organic Dye (in solution)        | 300-1,000 (tunable)**            |

   | Krypton Ion                      | 335-800                          |

   | Helium-Cadmium                   | 422.0                            |

   | Argon Ion                        | 450-530 (main lines 488 & 514.5) |

   | Helium Neon                      | 543, 632.8, 1,150                |

   | Semiconductor (GaInP)            | 670-680                          |

   | Ruby                             | 694                              |

   | Semiconductor (GaAlAs)           | 750-900                          |

   | Neodymium YAG                    | 1,064                            |

   | Semiconductor (InGaAsP)          | 1,300-1,600                      |

   | Hydrogen-Fluoride Chemical       | 2,600-3,000                      |

   | Semiconductor (Pb-salt)          | 3,300-27,000 (tunable)**         |

   | Deuterium Fluoride               | 3,600-4,000                      |

   | Carbon Monoxide                  | 5,000-6,500                      |

   | Carbon Dioxide (CO2)             | 9,000-11,400 (main line 10,600)  |

    =====================================================================

    *  Extremely high peak powers available within the decade (> 100 GW).

    ** Suitable for wide-tunability receiver local-oscillators.



        Carbon Dioxide and Semiconductor lasers are very efficient.  In

    addition to the types listed above, there are a variety of chemical

    lasers, including:  Iodine, Hydrogen Bromide, Xenon Hexafluoride,

    Uranium Hexafluoride, and Sulphur Hexafluoride.  These chemical lasers

    are efficient and very powerful.


        Lasers like the Helium-Cadmium and Helium-Neon can be discounted

    because of their very poor efficiency and low power, even though their

    temporal coherence is excellent.  Similarly, the original Ruby laser is


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 30


     =====================================================================

    | Table 4  The most intense Fraunhofer lines from the Sun{1}          |

    |=====================================================================|

    | Wavelength, nm      Bandwidth, nm   Bandwidth, GHz    Element       |

    |---------------------------------------------------------------------|

    | 410.1748               0.3133          558.7          H_delta       |

    | 413.2067               0.0400           71.0          Fe I{2}       |

    | 414.3878               0.0466           81.4          Fe I          |

    | 416.7277               0.0200           34.5          Mg I          |

    | 420.2040               0.0326           55.4          Fe I          |

    | 422.6740               0.1476          247.9          Ca I          |

    | 423.5949               0.0385           64.4          Fe I{2}       |

    | 425.0130               0.0342           56.8          Fe I{2}       |

    | 425.0797               0.0400           66.4          Fe I{2}       |

    | 425.4346               0.0393           65.1          Cr I{2}       |

    | 426.0486               0.0595           98.3          Fe I          |

    | 427.1774               0.0756          124.3          Fe I          |

    | 432.5775               0.0793          127.1          Fe I{2}       |

    | 434.0475               0.2855          454.6          H_gamma       |

    | 438.3557               0.1008          157.4          Fe I          |

    | 440.4761               0.0898          138.9          Fe I          |

    | 441.5135               0.0417           64.2          Fe I{2}       |

    | 452.8627               0.0275           40.2          Fe I{2}       |

    | 455.4036               0.0159           23.0          Ba II         |

    | 470.3003               0.0326           44.2          Mg I          |

    | 486.1342               0.3680          467.2          H_beta        |

    | 489.1502               0.0312           39.1          Fe I          |

    | 492.0514               0.0471           58.4          Fe I{2}       |

    | 495.7613               0.0696           85.0          Fe I{2}       |

    | 516.7327               0.0935          105.1          Mg I{2}       |

    | 517.2698               0.1259          141.2          Mg I          |

    | 518.3619               0.1584          176.9          Mg I          |

    | 525.0216               0.0062            6.7          Fe I{3}       |

    | 526.9550               0.0478           51.6          Fe I{2}       |

    | 532.8051               0.0375           39.6          Fe I          |

    | 552.8418               0.0293           28.8          Mg I          |

    | 588.9973               0.0752           65.0          Na I(D2){2}   |

    | 589.5940               0.0564           48.7          Na I(D1)      |

    | 610.2727               0.0135           10.9          Ca I          |

    | 612.2226               0.0222           17.8          Ca I          |

    | 616.2180               0.0222           17.5          Ca I          |

    | 630.2499               0.0083            6.3          Fe I{3}       |

    | 656.2808 _____________ 0.4020 ________ 280.0 ________ H_alpha       |

    | 849.8062               0.1470           61.1          Ca II         |

    | 854.2144               0.3670          150.9          Ca II         |

    | 866.2170               0.2600          104.0          Ca II         |

     =====================================================================


    Table reproduced from "Astrophysical Formulae", edited by K.R. Lang,

    Springer-Verlag, 1978, p. 175. [90]


    {1} After MOORE, MINNAERT, and HOUTGAST.

    {2} Blended line.

    {3} Magnetic sensitive line.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 31


    inefficient and low power.  Probably, one of the more important

    considerations for an ETI transmitting laser is that it should be

    capable of being deployed in space, be able to produce extremely high

    C.W. or pulse powers, and be nuclear or stellar (solar) pumped.


        Organic dye lasers are suitable for local-oscillators, with their

    wide tunability and narrow linewidth (< 5 kHz).  Lead-salt semi-

    conductor lasers are suitable for infrared local-oscillators.



                               FRAUNHOFER LINES


        Table 4 is a list of the most intense Fraunhofer lines from the Sun

    and their effective bandwidths.  The H_alpha Hydrogen line upon which

    the visible Optical SETI model is based, has a wavelength of

    656.2808 nm (frequency = 4.57 X 10^14 Hz), and an effective linewidth

    or bandwidth of 0.402 nm (280 GHz). [88-90]  The actual FWHM linewidth

    is somewhat less that 280 GHz.



                              THE OPTICAL SEARCH


        An "All Sky Survey" of the type planned for the Microwave Observing

    Project (MOP), which pixelizes the entire celestial sphere, does not

    make sense in the optical regime. [40-45]  The 10^16 beams (Equ. 20)

    for a diffraction limited 10-meter diameter visible-wavelength

    telescope are mainly wasted looking out into empty (local) space.  For

    a celestial sphere one thousand light years in radius, containing one

    million solar-type stars, the average angular separation between stars

    is 0.23 degrees (see Figure 10).  A 34-meter diameter radio telescope at

    1.5 GHz has a typical field-of-view (FOV) of 0.41 X 0.41 degrees, and

    thus, on average, its FOV encompasses several stars.  It is efficient

    when conducting a radio "All Sky Survey" to continuously scan the

    celestial sphere in consecutive or adjacent strips or sectors.


        The 10-meter diameter Professional 656 nm Optical SETI Telescope

    would have a typical FOV = 0.33 X 0.33 degrees and a 128 X 128

    photodetector array FOV = 2.1" X 2.1".  Since the average separation

    between stars is 0.23 degrees, the average number of stars in the

    optical array FOV is 6.4 X 10^-6.  Thus, the narrow diffraction-limited

    field-of-view means that for most of the time the optical detector(s)

    would be viewing empty space.  A similar situation prevails for the

    smaller, single detector amateur optical telescopes to be discussed

    later.  The argument has been advanced by Dr. Bernard Oliver, in

    correspondence with the author and at the author's SETI Institute talk,

    that because an "All Sky Survey" would be out of the question at

    optical frequencies, this implies that ETIs would not use these

    frequencies.


        The author's response to this is that there is nothing "holy" about

    the "All Sky Survey" approach.  What we may wish to do is to have a

    Targeted Search of tens of thousands of stars, instead of a mere eight

    hundred as presently planned for MOP (see Page 11).  However, each time

    we wish to scan another star in the frequency domain, we will move the


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

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    telescope to an adjacent sector of the sky that contains the desired

    object.


        While there is the possibility that ETI transmitters exist in the

    interstellar voids, far from their home stars, the author thinks that

    this scenario is unlikely (except perhaps within our own solar system,

    i.e., von Neumann-type probes), if for no other reason than it would

    place the energy-intensive transmitters far from a "cheap" and

    plentiful energy source.


        One of the many objections made to the optical approach to SETI is

    that there are just too many frequencies to search.  As Figure 5

    illustrates, under the author's rationale, this is more a perception

    than a reality because of the wider signal bandwidths assumed.



      21-cm Water-Hole                               Channel or Bin

         |                                                  |

       ------------------------------------------------------------------

      |  *                                                  #            |

      |  *                      MICROWAVE HAYSTACK          #            |

      |  *                                                  #            |

       ------------------------------------------------------------------

      |                                  |               --> <--         |

    1 GHz                              10 GHz              1 Hz      100 GHz


        Number of 1 Hz frequency channels or bins between

        1 GHz and 10 GHz = 9 Billion.



                10,600 nm                                 656 nm

                   |                                         |

       ------------------------------------------------------------------

      |            *                                   #     *           |

      |            *             OPTICAL HAYSTACK      #     *           |

      |            *                                   #     *           |

       ------------------------------------------------------------------

      |                                  |          --> <--              |

    10 THz                            100 THz       100 kHz        1,000 THz


        Number of 100 kHz frequency channels or bins between

        20 THz and 920 THz = 9 Billion.


    Figure 5 -


    The Microwave and Optical Cosmic Haystack frequency domains.  This

    demonstrates that the number of frequencies to search in the microwave

    and optical haystacks are of similar magnitude.



        Wide bandwidth means that laser linewidths, Doppler shifts, and

    chirps (drifts) are less significant, and the number of frequencies to

    search in the optical spectrum is more manageable.  Just because

    visible frequencies are over five orders of magnitude higher than


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

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    microwave frequencies does not mean that there are over 10^5 more

    frequencies to search in the optical frequency domain.  The modulation

    bandwidth of proposed optical ETI signals as a percentage of the

    carrier frequency may be as large or larger than the percentage

    modulation bandwidth of proposed microwave ETI signals.  In fact,

    assuming minimum bin bandwidths of 100 kHz, the number of frequencies

    to search in the entire optical spectrum may not be much greater than

    the number of 1 Hz frequencies between 1 and 10 GHz, i.e., nine

    billion!  This is illustrated diagrammatically in Figure 5.  This

    clearly has important ramifications in terms of the search time.


        The reader should note that for a drifting carrier signal, i.e.,

    one subjected to Doppler Chirp, the optimum detection bandwidth is

    equal to the square root of the frequency drift rate. [5,8]  This

    assumes that the local-oscillator laser is not de-chirped.  Thus, the

    optimum bandwidth for a monochromatic 1.5 GHz signal drifting at a

    local Doppler Chirp rate of 0.17 Hz/s (see Table 2, Line 30, Page 22)

    is about 0.4 Hz, while for a monochromatic 656 nm signal drifting at

    51 kHz/s, the optimum bandwidth is 226 Hz.  If the bin bandwidth is

    excessive, too much system noise is detected, and the CNR is degraded.

    On the other hand, if the bin bandwidth is too small, the response time

    of the filter (approximately 1/Bif) is insufficient to respond to all

    the energy in the signal as it sweeps by, again leading to a reduction

    in CNR and detectability.


        It is an interesting exercise to estimate the time that would be

    required at visible wavelengths for both an All Sky Survey and a

    Targeted Search.  We will assume the use of a ten-meter diameter

    receiving telescope, a 128 X 128 photodetector array (16,384 pixels),

    and initially, a single 10 GHz bandwidth Multi-Channel Spectrum

    Analyzer (MCSA) that sequentially samples all 16,384 photodetectors.

    These MCSAs could have final bin bandwidths of about 100 kHz.  At this

    time, 10 GHz MCSAs do not exist, and the state-of-the-art for single-

    chip devices employed in Microwave SETI is about 10 MHz.  However, it

    is only a question of time before these more powerful 10 GHz devices

    are developed.


        For the purposes of this brief analysis we shall not concern

    ourselves with the huge amount of data storage that must be provided,

    or the data reduction time overhead required.  Equ. 20 (Page 81) shows

    that the number of received beams for such a telescope is about 10^16.

    Since the minimum sampling time per pixel for a 10 GHz bandwidth is

    100 ps, the time to sample the entire array of 16,384 instantaneous

    beams is 1.64 microseconds.  The number of array sets of beams in the

    celestial sphere consisting of 10^16 beams is 6.1 X 10^11.  Thus, the

    time just to "look" at one 10 GHz wide band of the visible spectrum,

    assuming that a continuous scan of the sky could be made with no dead

    time or overlap, is 10^6 s, i.e., 11.6 days!  This is a substantial

    amount of time for a single band just 10 GHz wide.


        Since there are 42,857 bands of 10 GHz bandwidth between 350 nm and

    700 nm, the time required to search the entire sky and all visible

    frequencies is, at a minimum, 1,360 years!  Even if we had 128

    parallel MCSAs (don't even consider having 16,384 - 10 GHz MCSAs!), the


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

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    time to search even a 10 GHz band is long, notwithstanding the "slight"

    data storage problem.  Clearly, we can forget about this form of

    optical All Sky Survey, since it is a grossly inefficient way of

    scanning or pixelizing the sky.  Almost all the data bins will be empty

    bins, having been derived from beams pointing to empty (near) space.

    The situation for an Optical All Sky Survey is actually much worse than

    just implied, due to the additional time that each pixel must be

    sampled to ensure a high probability of detecting the fewer, but more

    energetic optical photons - more about this in a moment.


        On the other hand, if we only consider a Targeted Search, the time

    required is much shorter and allows for the search to be done across

    the entire optical spectrum, not just at selected laser frequencies or

    Fraunhofer lines.  As we have just seen, if the photon arrival rate is

    sufficiently high, the time with a single 10 GHz MCSA for a single scan

    of the entire array is 1.64 microseconds.  To scan for one star over

    the entire 350 nm to 700 nm band would take 0.070 seconds (assuming

    suitable L.O. lasers).  This is a trivial amount of time, and the amount

    of data that has to be collected and stored is relatively insignificant.

    Indeed, it is the time to do the FFTs and move the telescope to a new

    position that will be the most significant overheads here.


        The above times are highly optimistic because the basic flux

    sensitivity of any kind of receiver, be it microwave or optical, depends

    on the sampling or integration time.  Hence, before we can estimate the

    realistic length of time for a given search, we must decide what are the

    minimum detectable flux levels that we wish to detect.  This, in turn,

    will determine the minimum sampling time for each pixel.  Usually, SETI

    minimum detectable flux estimates are based on integrating a very weak

    signal for a period of time, and not for providing sufficient SNR to

    allow actual demodulation.  We must also decide if we want to model a

    system based on short pulses or on continuous wave (C.W.) signals.


        Of course, it is extremely unlikely that the signal flux would be

    sufficiently high to allow for a high probability of detecting the

    photons in a sampling bandwidth of 10 GHz.  In reality, our minimum

    MCSA bin bandwidths would be about 100 kHz, and the sampling

    (integration) time is at least a factor of 10^5 longer.  For the

    purposes of this further analysis, we shall assume a C.W. signal and a

    100 kHz minimum bin bandwidth, so that the pixel sampling time is now

    10 us.  For our ten-meter diameter 656 nm symmetrical heterodyning

    telescope system, we can estimate the minimum detectable signal flux

    density by calculating the flux required to reduce the CNR to 0 dB.


        We have already shown (Table 2, Line 12, Page 22), that a flux

    intensity of 2.04 X 10-^17 W/m^2 will produce a CNR = 34 dB re 1 Hz.

    Therefore, in a 100 kHz bandwidth, the CNR will be -16 dB.  To increase

    the CNR to 0 dB means that the intensity must be increased by 16 dB to

    8.12 X 10^-16 W/m^2.  Thus, the minimum detectable signal flux for

    this bandwidth and sampling rate is 8.1 X 10^-16 W/m^2.  This is

    equivalent to saying that during the 10 microsecond sampling time, if

    an ETI signal is present on one pixel, we would have a reasonable

    probability of detecting one photon (Equ. 36).  This signal flux would

    be produced by a ten meter diameter transmitter at a range of ten light


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

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    years, with a power of 16 dB re 1 kW, i.e., 40 kW.  This is a trivial

    amount of power for an ETI.


        On the basis that the author thinks that ETI transmitter powers

    will be in excess of 100 MW and perhaps even substantially in excess of

    1 GW, we could decide to lower the detection sensitivity and go for a

    faster sampling rate, thus speeding up the search.  For the purposes of

    this analysis we will stick to the 100 kHz pixel sampling rate.  As

    previously stated, we will assume that we are doing our single star

    signal processing in real time, with 100 kHz minimum bin bandwidths.

    This means that the entire array would take 0.164 s to scan.  If we

    assume no scan dead time, then to scan the entire visible band between

    350 nm and 700 nm at a sensitivity level of about -150 dBW/m^2

    (10^-15 W/m^2), would take about two hours (Equ. 21, Page 82).  An All

    Sky Survey of this type would take at least 136 million years!  If a

    survey of this type could have been started when the dinosaurs roamed

    Earth, we would be just about reaching the end of the first scan!

    (Don't anyone accuse the author of lacking a sense of humor.)


        On the other hand, for a sensitivity of -150 dBW/m^2, a Targeted

    Search scan of a single star over the 280 GHz effective bandwidth of

    the 656 nm Fraunhofer line (Table 4, Page 30) with a 10 GHz MCSA, with

    on-line data storage, and a 10 microsecond pixel sampling time, would

    take 4.6 seconds.  This is a very reasonable time, so that a slower

    scan at selected laser and Fraunhofer lines could be performed to

    reduce the minimum detectable flux levels.



                             PROFESSIONAL CO2 SETI


        Just as this paper was being completed, the author received a copy

    of Albert Betz's (University of California, Space Sciences Laboratory,

    Berkeley, CA 94720) latest paper on Optical CO2 SETI. [57]  For the

    sake of completeness, because there is currently so little Optical SETI

    literature available, and because Betz's paper is a very up-to-date

    account of the only observational Optical SETI work presently being

    done in the United States, a short description is now given.  The work

    of Townes and Betz is supported by a NASA grant NAGW-681.  As mentioned

    on Page 5, this low-profile SETI work is being done on Mount Wilson, and

    is piggy-backed onto a much larger NASA program to investigate astro-

    physical phenomena at the galactic center, e.g., a possible black hole.


        To start with, here now is a complete quote of the abstract from

    Dr. Betz's paper, which was presented in August of 1991 at the Santa

    Cruz, California USA-USSR SETI Meeting:


        "In an effort complementary to NASA's search for microwave signals

    from an extraterrestrial intelligence, we are searching for possible

    laser signals of a similar origin.  We are surveying approximately 300

    nearby stars in a multi-year effort to detect narrowband laser signals

    in the 10 um wavelength region.  For this directed search, we are using

    an available 1.7 m telescope and a heterodyne receiver tuned to

    discrete CO2 laser frequencies between 26-30 THz.  The bandwidth of the

    heterodyne allows us to analyze a Doppler velocity range up to


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 36


    +/-60 km/s around selected laser lines, and thus accommodate the

    velocity dispersions of hypothesized laser sources orbiting nearby

    stars.  The resolution of the spectrometer is currently 2.4 MHz

    (24 m/s), with 10^3 spectral channels available.  Although this

    resolution is somewhat coarse, any indication of a signal could be

    subsequently analyzed at much higher resolution with the type of signal

    processor (MCSA) now being developed for the microwave survey."


        Betz uses a slightly different transmission throughput

    relationship to that employed by this author (Pages 77-78).  For his

    parameters: Pt = 1 kW, D = 10 m, R = 10 L.Y. (9.461 X 10^16 m), and

    Wl = 10.6 um (see Appendix A for parameter definitions):


                              Pr = 9.9 X 10^-18 W


        This figure for received power is about 2.1 dB greater than given

    in Table 2, Line 13 on Page 22 (6.1 X 10^-18 W).  The reason for the

    slight discrepancy is that Betz uses an approximation by omitting a

    PI^2/16 factor (see Equs. 13 and 14 on Pages 77 and 78 for more details).


        Earlier it was stated that the minimum beam divergence thought

    possible by Townes and others was about one second of arc.  However,

    this recent paper by Betz indicates a new, more optimistic limitation

    of about 0.1 second of arc.  This is only a factor of 7.25 greater than

    the 0.0138" diffraction limited beamwidth for the visible system (as

    shown in Table 2, Line 5 on Page 22, and on Page 73).  By assuming that

    the nearest stars to be targeted are around 50 parsecs (163 L.Y.) away,

    a beam divergence of 0.1 arcsecond is compatible with the expected

    zones of life.  Because of this increase in beam directivity, Betz gets

    an infrared SNR improvement over the 300-meter diameter Arecibo system

    of about 3 dB (a factor of 2).  Figure 4 on Page 28 shows that the

    microwave system has a CNR of 20 dB, while the infrared system has a

    CNR of 22 dB; a 2 dB difference in favor of the infrared system.  Thus,

    taking into account the slightly different assumptions made in this

    analysis, i.e., the transmission relationship, the microwave front-end

    temperature and quantum efficiency, the theoretical results for the CO2

    system in this paper are in very close agreement with that of Betz's

    paper.


        The Townes and Betz CO2 telescope is computer driven, with the

    ability to point blind to approximately one arcsecond, both during the

    day and night.  As indicated on Page 23, CO2 SETI is just as effective

    during the day as at night, since, whatever the limitations of the sky

    background, it is essentially constant over the 24 hour day.


        The reader should note that the 128 X 128 pixel array specified for

    the Professional Visible SETI system has a field of view of about

    2.1 X 2.1 arcsec (Figure 10, Page 81), and thus is semi-compatible with

    the pointing accuracy of Betz's system.  Note that a medium size

    visible wavelength telescope with a single incoherent photodetector

    system, may have to be steered and pointed during daylight hours with

    point blind accuracy better than 1 arcsec.  If the pixel size and FOV

    are increased to accommodate steering inaccuracies and atmospheric

    turbulence, the daylight background would increase and degrade the SNR.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 37


                     INCOHERENT OPTICAL SETI AT 10,600 nm


        In a later section, we will describe an incoherent Optical SETI

    receiver for visible and near-infrared wavelengths, with Amateur

    Optical SETI application.  For the sake of completeness, Figure 6 has

    been included here to demonstrate the relatively poor response of a

    small incoherent (photon-counting) CO2 receiving system.  This should

    be compared to Figure 8 (Page 44), given for the case of incoherent

    Optical SETI at visible wavelengths.  Identical signal flux levels and

    telescope apertures have been employed in both graphs.  These graphs

    have been located at the top of their respective pages to allow the

    pages to be flicked back and forth for easier comparison.


        In the incoherent CO2 system, where the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR)

    is quantum noise limited, the SNR it is greater than in the visible

    spectrum because "hf" is smaller.  However, where the SNR is background

    noise limited, the SNR is severely degraded.  For a high signal

    intensity of 10^-14 W/m^2, as produced by a transmitter at a distance

    of ten light years with an EIRP of about 10^21 W, the SNR for a 30 cm-

    diameter CO2 receiving telescope begins to degrade for optical band-

    widths greater than about 1 MHz.


        The infrared telescope's photodetector must be subject to

    considerable cooling, e.g., using liquid nitrogen, to avoid high dark-

    current, and it must be provided with a cold-shield to restrict its

    field-of-view (FOV) to background thermal radiation.  Note that the

    performance of an amateur CO2 system could well be much worse than

    shown in Figure 6, because CO2 transmitter gains and EIRPs are likely

    to be much less than available at visible wavelengths.  Unfortunately,

    high-Q optical filters centered on the CO2 wavelength are not available

    with wide tuning characteristics, although a small degree of tuning may

    be obtainable by tilting the filters.  Fixed optical filters with

    100 GHz bandwidths at 10,600 nm are available for several hundred

    dollars.  The cost of a extremely high-Q 10 GHz (0.035 percent

    bandwidth) interference filter may run into several thousand dollars.

    Even then, the thermal background detected is excessive, and the filter

    itself must be cooled.


        As has been pointed out repeatedly and demonstrated by Equ. 32

    (Page 88), the optical heterodyne receiver has the great advantage over

    its direct detection counterpart (Equ. 31), in that the effective

    optical bandwidth through which background radiation is received is

    determined by the small electrical I.F. bandwidth.  Also, because of

    the excessive dark-current characteristics of 10,600 nm photodetectors,

    there is considerable merit in using a local-oscillator laser to swamp

    out these noise sources, though coherent detection would not

    necessarily obviate the necessity to employ some cryogenic cooling.

    Thus, there is much truth in the observation that as far as ground-

    based CO2 SETI receivers are concerned, only coherent receivers are

    practical, such as the interferometer system presently being employed

    by Townes and Betz on Mount Wilson, and described on the previous two

    pages. [57]




    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 38


    Postdetection Normalized SNR, dB re 1 Hz

       |

       |

      80 | Ir = 10^-10 W/m^2             EIRP = 1.1 X 10^25 W

         |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

         |                                                       *

      60 | Ir = 10^-12 W/m^2             EIRP = 1.1 X 10^23 W         *

         |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

         |                                           *

      40 | Ir = 10^-14 W/m^2             EIRP = 1.1 X 10^21 W

         |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *                     *

         |                                *                     *

      20 | Ir = 10^-16 W/m^2                  *                     *

         |* * * * * * * * * * *                  *

         |                        *                  *

       0 |.Ir = 10^-18 W/m^2.........*...................*..............

         |* * * * * *                   *                   *

         |               *                  *                   *

     -20 | Ir = 10^-20 W/m^2 *                 *                    *

         |*                     *                 *

         |     *                   *                 *

     -40 |         *                  *                 *

         |            *                  *                 *

         |               *                  *                 *

     -60 |                  *                  *                 *

         |                     *                  *                 *

         |                        *                  *

     -80 |        Day & Night        *                  *

         |                              *                  *

         |                                 *                  *

    -100  --------------------------------------------------------------

       10^0      10^2      10^4      10^6      10^8      10^10  ^  10^12

                                                                |

                             Optical Bandwidth, Hz              |

                                                       100 GHz (37.5 nm)


    Figure 6 -


    Signal-to-noise ratio versus optical bandwidth for (perfect) photon-

    counting CO2 receivers.  Range = 10 light years, wavelength = 10,600 nm,

    diameter = 30 cm, antenna efficiency = 0.7, spectrometer efficiency =

    0.5, quantum efficiency = 0.5.  Dark current is assumed to be

    negligible, though in practice it will impact the above sensitivity

    curves at lower flux levels, even more than the sky background.



        Needless to say, the construction cost of a heterodyning CO2 SETI

    telescope/receiver is likely to be excessive for the amateur

    enthusiast.  For this reason, CO2 SETI is not being proposed for the

    amateur.  This activity is best left to NASA and the professional

    observer.





    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 39


                        ADAPTIVE TELESCOPE TECHNOLOGY


        Perhaps one of the most exciting developments in modern optical

    astronomy is the subject of adaptive telescope technology.  The author

    believes that this not only has profound implications for conventional

    optical astronomy but also for Optical SETI.  In particular, for what

    we call Symbiotic Optical SETI.  What follows is a description of the

    technique obtained from the tutorial introduction to reference 69.


        "Earth-based telescopic adaptive-optics systems need a reference

    (guide) star which is near objects of interest and bright enough to

    provide information on the wavefront distortion.  But natural guide

    stars for a usable portion of the visible spectrum are few and far

    between, allowing glimpses of just 0.003 percent of the night sky.

    Rather than cursing the darkness, astronomers and engineers are

    lighting some celestial candles of their own.


        To create the artificial guide stars, a laser is beamed into the

    sky, which answers back inflamed.  The laser energy creates Rayleigh

    backscattering in the stratosphere (10 - 40 km up) and resonance-

    fluorescence backscattering in the mesospheric sodium layer

    (80 - 100 km).  No radically new technology is required for the lasers,

    although the breadth of capabilities is large for a single laser.  For

    zenith viewing of a 20-cm atmospheric patch using the Rayleigh

    approach, the laser must put out 82 watts; for the sodium-

    backscattering approach the required exciting power is 14 watts.  At

    the sodium layer, which results from meteor ablation, the beam must be

    0.5 meter in diameter, with a pulse rate of 100-200 pps and 100

    millijoules per pulse.


        The laser guide-star concept was first put into practice by Chester

    Gardner and Laird Thompson, who in 1987 created, photographed, and

    measured their own glowing beacon, shot like some giant flare above the

    Mauna Kea Observatory in Hawaii. [69]


        The basic system requirement is that the distortion of the guide

    star must be measured and the adaptive mirror adjusted in the time it

    takes for a star to twinkle, or, depending on how you look at it, the

    time between twinkles.  This window of visibility known as twinkle time

    (also called scintillation coherence time) is open for a scant

    10 milliseconds."


        The requirements to produce a diffraction limited image over the

    entire focal image plane are rigorous.  It could be that the criteria

    for Optical SETI are rather less demanding.  The requirement here is

    for imaging the ETI signal onto a two-dimensional photodetector array,

    where the primary purpose (neglecting Planckian suppression needs) of

    the array is to detect ETI photons, not to produce a super high-quality

    extended image.  As described on Pages 10 and 83, it is shown how

    efficient detection of an ETI signal might be obtained with a simple

    passive technique, if ETIs cooperate by transmitting a signal

    accompanied by a pilot-tone beacon.  Such a technique automatically

    makes any telescope adaptive, without the need for deformable mirrors

    and laser guide stars.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 40


                        THE COLUMBUS TELESCOPE PROJECT


        As this paper was nearing completion, the author learned that a

    decision had been made to terminate Ohio State University's

    participation in The Columbus Project, the construction of a twin

    8-meter diameter interferometric telescope to be built on Mount Graham

    in southeastern Arizona.  The instrument, which is supposed to see

    "first light" in 1994, will have the light gathering power of a single

    11.3-meter (448-inch) mirror and the resolving power of a 22-meter

    (866-inch) telescope.


        The project was a joint venture between OSU, the University of

    Arizona, and Italy's Arcetri Astrophysical Observatory.  The reason

    given for OSU's pulling out of the project was a lack of privately

    donated funds.  Within these pages, this author has suggested the

    possibility of a future symbiotic relationship between Professional

    Optical Astronomy and Professional Optical SETI.  During the early part

    of this study, an idea was formulated that plans for The Columbus

    Telescope might be changed, so that both scientific activities could be

    undertaken at that site; Professional Optical Astronomy being done at

    night, and Professional Coherent Optical SETI mainly during the day.


        On Columbus Day, October 12, the Microwave Observing Project will

    commence its search of the sky.  As we in Columbus, Ohio, approach the

    quincentennial of Columbus' discovery of the Americas, what more

    fitting way could there be to celebrate the first encounter with the

    New World than if OSU's participation in The Columbus Project was

    resumed and the telescope's purpose modified to include the search for

    extraterrestrial intelligence.  The New World would be looking for

    other, perhaps older worlds, with more mature technical civilizations.


        OSU is already home to the "Big Ear" Radio Observatory, which under

    the guidance of Professor John D. Kraus (Director) and Dr. Robert Dixon

    (Assistant Director), has been undertaking conventional microwave

    SETI for many years.  On the same site in Delaware (a little north of

    Columbus), and close to "Big Ear", is the Perkins Optical Observatory.

    At the moment, the author is working on ideas to upgrade the Perkins

    Observatory for Semi-Professional Incoherent Optical SETI.  This

    observatory presently contains a 81-cm (32-inch) Cassegrain.



                            OPTICAL SETI RATIONALE


        SETI would not seem so mysterious to the average person if it was

    recognized that this is yet another communications problem, albeit

    complicated by the fact that we do not know where or when to look, the

    transmission frequency, the bandwidth, or the modulation format.  In

    many ways it is just another aspect to our manned and unmanned space

    program, but one that has received relatively little funding.  It took

    many years before SETI was recognized as a legitimate science and not

    pseudoscience.  The technology described here for Optical SETI is more

    than just a means of contacting emerging technical civilizations.  If

    intelligent life is not uncommon in the galaxy, and if electromagnetic

    waves are still the primary means of interstellar communications, the


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 41


    ability of optical relays to form a galactic network might obviate the

    necessity to use low-loss microwaves or the far-infrared in order to

    propagate across the entire galaxy in one go.  After all, it is very

    difficult to have a snappy conversation when communicating over one

    hundred thousand light years!


        Earlier, we showed that our "perfect" 10-meter diameter symmetrical

    656 nm heterodyning system was capable of yielding over a range of

    10 light years, a CNR of about 34 dB re 1 kW re 1 Hz, for a diffraction

    limited EIRP of 2.3 X 10^18 W (see Table 2 and Figure 4).  Since a

    solar-type star has an EIRP of 3.9 X 10^26 W, we pose the question:

    What is the communication capability of such a communications link when

    the mean EIRP of a large transmitter array is 2.5 times that of the

    star, i.e., when the mean EIRP is about 10^27 W?  This condition

    corresponds to the transmitter appearing as a 1st magnitude object; a

    situation which would produce a noticeable (2.5 times) brightening of

    the ETI's star.  Since the ratio of EIRPs {10^27/(2.3 X 10^18)} is

    4.4 X 10^8, the CNR will be improved by 86 dB, resulting in a CNR of

    about 120 dB re 1 Hz, and a photon detection rate of about 10^12 s^-1

    (Equ. 36).  If the bandwidth is increased to 10 GHz, the CNR falls to

    about 20 dB.  Thus, this just naked-eye noticeable transmitter would be

    just about capable of sending a 10 Gbit/s data stream across 10 light

    years with low bit-error-rate {BER} (Equ. 37).  This would allow a

    hypothetical Encyclopedia Galactica to be uploaded or downloaded rather

    efficiently!


        This might give new meaning to Arthur C. Clarke's "Extra-

    Terrestrial Relays", which in the October, 1945 issue of WIRELESS WORLD

    described the basic idea for the present terrene geostationary (the

    Clarke Belt) satellite system. [67]  Clarke had originally given his

    article the title "The Future of World Communications".  Perhaps this

    paper should be titled "The Future of Interstellar Communications"?


        In many ways, Arthur C. Clarke and "Extra-Terrestrial Relays" has

    done more to shape what we now call the "Global Village" than any

    other single factor on our planet.  Indeed, the spreading of the ideas

    of democracy, and freedom, and the breakup of the Soviet Empire have

    more to do with former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev, Russian

    President Boris Yeltsin, and author Clarke than any other factor.  The

    latter is perhaps the unsung hero here.  The failure of the August, 1991

    Soviet Coup was facilitated by the ease with which it is now possible

    to communicate.  Those readers who own TVROs (TeleVision Receive Only)

    satellite receivers will especially appreciate the power of this

    technology.  We can be sure that the reception, demodulation, and

    decoding of the first ETI signal - be it microwave, millimeter-wave, or

    optical - will have an immense effect upon our civilization.  Just the

    act of detecting a carrier signal will forever change our view of the

    Universe and humanity.


        The following section deals with the amateur approach to Optical

    SETI, showing how an amateur observatory can be constructed.  This is

    based on the more controversial assumption that optical ETI signals may

    be present in the visible spectrum, and of sufficient intensity, to

    yield detectable signals with relatively small receiving telescopes.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



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    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



                          THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF

                  THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                     Volume 3, Number 6D - January 1992


                         ###########################


                              TABLE OF CONTENTS


                         ###########################


           * ASA Membership and Article Submission Information


           * The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in

             the Optical Spectrum, Part D - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                         ###########################


                         ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION


        The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic

    (EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the

    Atlantic, Incorporated.  The ASA is a non-profit organization dedicated

    to the advancement of amateur and professional astronomy and space

    exploration, as well as the social and educational needs of its members.


        ASA membership application is open to all with an interest in

    astronomy and space exploration.  Members receive the Journal of the

    ASA (hardcopy sent through United States Mail - Not a duplicate of this

    Electronic Journal) and the Astronomical League's REFLECTOR magazine.

    Members may also purchase discount subscriptions to ASTRONOMY and

    SKY & TELESCOPE magazines.


        For information on membership, you may contact the Society at any

    of the following addresses:


        Astronomical Society of the Atlantic (ASA)

        c/o Center for High Angular Resolution Astronomy (CHARA)

        Georgia State University (GSU)

        Atlanta, Georgia  30303

        U.S.A.


        asa@chara.gsu.edu


        ASA BBS: (404) 985-0408, 300/1200 Baud.


        or telephone the Society Recording at (404) 264-0451 to leave your

    address and/or receive the latest Society news.








    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



        ASA Officers and Council -


        President - Don Barry

        Vice President - Nils Turner

        Secretary - Ken Poshedly

        Treasurer - Karla Poshedly

        Board of Advisors - Bill Bagnuolo, Jim Bitsko, Eric Greene

        Council - Jim Bitsko, Bill Black, Mike Burkhead, Bill Crane,

                  Toni Douglas, Ruth Greene, Larry Klaes, Tano Scigliano,

                  John Stauter, Gary Thompson, Bob Vickers



        ARTICLE SUBMISSIONS -


        Article submissions to the EJASA on astronomy and space exploration

    are most welcome.  Please send your on-line articles in ASCII format to

    Larry Klaes, EJASA Editor, at the following net addresses or the above

    Society addresses:


        klaes@mtwain.enet.dec.com

        or - ...!decwrl!mtwain.enet.dec.com!klaes

        or - klaes%mtwain.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com

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        Telephone Number: (508) 493-3283


        You may also use the above addresses for EJASA back issue requests,

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    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



                            COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION


        This document may be freely copied to other electronic bulletin

    boards, but only in an unmodified form and in its entirety, with the

    following copyright notice attached.  No license is given to reproduce

    this document in electronic or hardcopy form for profit.  However, the

    media may reproduce short extracts for the purposes of furthering the

    Optical SETI debate.


 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 * Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley                    Copyright (c) 1992            *

 * Consultant                                                              *

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Version: 1.00

File: EJASAV3.N06



      THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                         January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6D


                            Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992











              THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)

                        IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART D


                Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach




                                       by




                             Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                            FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS

                               545 Northview Drive

                               Columbus, Ohio 43209

                                  United States































    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 42


                            AMATEUR OPTICAL SETI


        Working on the assumption that highly advanced ETI technology could

    appear to late Twentieth Century humanity like "magic", it is imagined

    that ETIs will be using much larger transmitting telescopes or arrays

    and transmitter powers far greater than 1 kW. [56]  In practice, the

    signal is likely to be pulsed, and, depending on the duty cycle, even

    less detectable by normal integrating detectors, i.e., the unaided

    eye, photographic plates, or standard CCDs.  Optical SETI is a branch

    of science to which the enthusiastic amateur astronomer may be able to

    make a useful contribution.  In so doing, this may increase public

    and scientific interest in all forms of SETI so that this field of

    scientific endeavor will at last get the financial support and effort

    it richly deserves.



                             Optional                     I

                            Intensifier         ----------<---------

                  --          ------           |

     Signal Pr   |  |        |      |          |

    -----------> |  | -----> |      | -----> -----   PIN Photodetector,

    -----------> |  | -----> |      | -----> /   \ APD or Photomultiplier

    -----------> |  | -----> |      | -----> -----

     Background  |  |        |      |          |        -----

         Pb       --          ------           |       |     |

             Narrow-Band                        --->---|     |----->

       Optical Bandpass Filter                         |     |

        (or Monochromator) Bo                           -----

                                             Low-Pass Electrical Filter

                                                          Be


    Figure 7 -


    Incoherent (direct) detection optical receiver.  The image or photon

    intensifier is only required if a zero-gain PIN photodetector is

    employed.  The narrow-band optical filter (Bo < 0.1 nm) is ideally

    a tunable device like a scanning grating monochromator.  The photo-

    detector current I is proportional to the received signal Pr.



        Figure 7 is a basic schematic of an incoherent photon-counting

    receiver for an Amateur Optical SETI Observatory.  The high cost and

    technical difficulties of optical heterodyne detection in the visible

    and near-infrared spectrum means that the amateur's receiver will most

    likely have to use photon-counting, a little cooling, and a mono-

    chromator.  Unlike coherent receivers, incoherent receivers do not

    have the ability to reject Planckian starlight and daylight background

    noise if the signal is weak.


        Figure 8 results use slightly more conservative assumptions than

    employed to derive Table 2 (Equ. 15, Page 78).  It is assumed that the

    amateur telescope has a diameter of thirty centimeters (twelve inches),

    uses a low-resolution scanning grating monochromator bandwidth of

    100 GHz (0.143 nm) at 656 nm, and employs a receiver consisting of a


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 43


    single perfect photon-counter.  For a received flux density of

    10^-12 W/m^2, the SNR is about 39 dB re 1 Hz (Equ. 31, Page 87).  In

    the region of the graph where the SNR is reduced due to Planckian

    starlight, daylight background further reduces the SNR by a few dB.


        In the Microwave Cosmic Haystack, the flux densities of interest

    lie in the range of 10^-27 to 10^-20 W/m^2.  It is suggested that the

    corresponding flux levels in the Optical Cosmic Haystack would be in

    the range of 10^-20 to 10^-10 W/m^2.  As indicated in Figure 8, an

    EIRP = 10^23 W at a range of ten light years produces a received signal

    intensity Ir = 10^-12 W/m^2, with an apparent visual magnitude of

    eleven.  This would not be visible to the unaided eye even if it was

    not completely outshone by the second magnitude star.


        This 39 dB Signal-To-Noise Ratio represents an SNR penalty

    compared to the performance of a 10-meter heterodyning array receiving

    telescope of about 34 dB.  This 34 dB SNR penalty figure should not be

    confused with the 34 dB CNR that was established in Table 2 (Page 22)

    for a 1 kW transmitter.  Starlight and daylight sky backgrounds only

    slightly affect the SNR for this range, intensity, and optical

    bandwidth.  The effect of the 10 to 20 dB Fraunhofer Planckian

    suppression factor has not been included in the graph of Figure 8;

    allowance for which would improve the night sky performance for weaker

    signals and/or larger optical bandwidths.


        If a powerful ETI signal is detected, given an adequate SNR, it

    might even be possible for an amateur observer to demodulate a signal

    of moderate bandwidth, not just detect the presence of an excess

    number of photons arriving in a given time!  A photodetector bandwidth

    of about 1 MHz would probably be desirable, and well as a spectrum

    analyzer covering a similar frequency range.


        As can be seen from Figure 8, the SNR is degraded by Planckian

    starlight at low signal intensities and larger optical bandwidths.  In

    this regime, if the signal flux drops by 20 dB, the SNR falls by 40 dB

    because the receiver is no longer signal quantum noise limited.

    Clearly, if ETIs want their signals to be detected by relatively small

    incoherent receivers, it pays to use pulses with low duty-cycle in

    preference to C.W. signals.  High peak EIRPs can override all external

    and internal noise sources and thus make their signals as detectable

    as possible for a given mean EIRP.


        In Table 2 we showed that the 1 kW signal at a range of ten light

    years produces a received intensity of 2.04 X 10^-17 W/m^2.  If this

    was received by a one-meter diameter incoherent adaptive ground-based

    telescope, the normalized SNR in a 100 GHz (0.143 nm) optical bandwidth

    (not allowing for Planckian dark line continuum suppression) would be

    about -42 dB re 1 Hz.  In this situation it would indeed help to

    operate the transmitter within a Fraunhofer line.  The SNR would be

    increased to -32 dB re 1 Hz for a 10 dB Fraunhofer line contrast

    factor.  Either way, the presence of the signal would not be detectable

    without considerable integration.  However, if the ETI transmitter mean

    power was increased to 1 GW, leading to a received intensity of

    2.04 X 10^-11 W/m^2, the SNR would increase dramatically to about


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 44


    Postdetection Normalized SNR, dB re 1 Hz

       |

       |

      80 |

         |

         | Ir = 10^-10 W/m^2       EIRP = 1.1 X 10^25 W (6th Magnitude)

      60 |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 

         |

         | Ir = 10^-12 W/m^2       EIRP = 1.1 X 10^23 W (11th Magnitude)

      40 |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

         |                                                           *

         | Ir = 10^-14 W/m^2       EIRP = 1.1 X 10^21 W (16th Magnitude)

      20 |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

         |                                               *

         | Ir = 10^-16 W/m^2                                  *

       0 |.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*....................*.....

         |                                       *                    *

         | Ir = 10^-18 W/m^2                         *

     -20 |* * * * * * * * * * * * *                      *

         |                            *                      *

         | Ir = 10^-20 W/m^2              *                      *

     -40 |* * * * * * *                       *                      *

         |                *                       *

         |                    *                       *

     -60 |                        *                       *

         |                            *                       *

         |                                *                       *

     -80 |         Night Sky                  *                       *

         |                                        *

         |                                            *

    -100  --------------------------------------------------------------

       10^0      10^2      10^4      10^6      10^8      10^10  ^  10^12

                                                                |

                             Optical Bandwidth, Hz              |

                                                      100 GHz (0.143 nm)


    Figure 8 -


    Signal-to-noise ratio versus optical bandwidth for (perfect) Photon-

    counting 656 nm receivers.  Range = 10 light years, diameter = 30 cm,

    antenna efficiency = 0.7, spectrometer efficiency = 0.5, quantum

    efficiency = 0.5, excess avalanche gain noise factor = 0, dark

    current = 0.  EIRP of a solar-type star = 3.9 X 10^26 W.  A

    diffraction limited 10-meter diameter 1 GW transmitter produces an

    EIRP = 2.3 X 10^24 W, and appears to be 0.6 percent of the brightness

    of a second magnitude solar-type star.



    63 dB re 1 Hz; essentially independent of Planckian background.  This

    signal would stick out like a proverbial sore thumb.  In the case of

    Professional Heterodyning Optical SETI, we were dealing with stronger

    detected signals and a local-oscillator produced shot noise floor.

    Because we are dealing here with smaller, incoherent receivers that use

    an avalanche photodetector, the precise analysis for the CNR or BER is


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 45


    extremely complex when the received signal power is very small and/or

    larger post-detection bandwidths are employed.  The reader is

    cautioned, that the above results may be somewhat optimistic.


        Figure 8 forces us to consider whether such easily detectable

    signals could have been missed by professional optical astronomers?

    Perhaps, because there are so many stars and frequencies to search,

    and with the limitations of conventional spectrographic equipment, we

    can hope that these signals have been missed or overlooked.  Again, if

    the signals have low duty-cycle, the mean signal powers detected by

    integrating detectors would be considerably less.


        Scanning grating monochromators/spectrometers are available with

    ten times the resolution previously quoted, i.e., 10 GHz (0.0143 nm)

    optical bandwidths.  High-Q Fabry-Perot spectrometers with bandwidths

    as small as 1 MHz are perhaps less useful here because of their free-

    spectral range and multiple response characteristics, requiring

    additional broadband filtering.  However, the tandem combination of a

    scanning grating monochromator and a Fabry-Perot would form a very

    powerful optical filtering and spectral analysis system, comparable in

    many respects to what could be achieved with a heterodyne system.


        For the thirty-centimeter diameter telescope system, ETI signal

    detectability will not be substantially degraded for peak signal

    strengths higher than about 10^-14 W/m^2 (sixteenth magnitude) if the

    spectral resolution < 0.01 nm.  If the EIRP was about 10^25 W, the

    received signal flux would be at the threshold of unaided eye

    visibility of about 10^-10 W/m^2, and yield an SNR of 60 dB re 1 Hz.

    This would give an SNR = 30 dB in a 1 kHz post-detection bandwidth, or

    a just detectable 0 dB in a 1 MHz bandwidth.


        It would appear that as long as we can construct efficient photon-

    counting receivers, that the sensitivity of small incoherent receiving

    telescopes will not be unduly affected by the relatively large optical

    bandwidths of such receivers, though their sensitivity will be degraded

    if operated in daylight.


        There was no particular reason in choosing the 656.2808 nm

    (457.1214 THz) H_alpha line for the purposes of modelling the visible

    system.  While it could be considered a "magic wavelength", it does

    not coincide with a known laser transition.  It has an effective band-

    width of about 280 GHz, though its half-power bandwidth is somewhat

    smaller (Table 4, Page 30).  A less expensive way of undertaking

    Amateur Optical SETI observations at this single wavelength, instead of

    using the more flexible scanning grating monochromator, would be to

    employ a standard narrow-band H_alpha solar filter.  To further reduce

    costs, a photomultiplier could be used in place of the state-of-the-art

    cooled avalanche (geiger-mode) photodetector.


        It may be possible for amateur astronomy groups to "steal a march"

    on NASA as far as the low-sensitivity search for ETI in the visible

    and near-infrared spectrum is concerned.  For Amateur Optical SETI

    to be a sensible pursuit for the astronomical and space enthusiast

    requires the belief that ETI technology would appear to emerging


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 46


    technical civilizations comparable to ourselves to be like "magic".

    The demands placed on assumed ETI technical prowess are even greater

    than when considering the practicality of Professional Optical SETI.

    The onus would be on ETIs to make their signals easily detectable.


        Since peak EIRPs > 10^23 W are thought possible, which lead to peak

    intensities at a range of ten light years greater than 10^-12 W/m^2

    (eleventh magnitude), the detectability of such signals with amateur

    equipment is imaginable.  Telescopes with apertures greater than about

    one meter diameter are only slightly affected by daylight when observing

    nearby stars, indicating that Daylight Professional/Semi-Professional

    Optical SETI may be feasible for larger telescopes with incoherent

    receivers.  It should be realized that even during the day, the sky is

    essentially black when viewed with artificial narrow bandwidth eyes!


        It is not yet clear whether the 81-cm (32-inch) Perkins Telescope

    in Delaware, could be upgraded with a precision-drive system that would

    allow for satisfactory image-tracking during the night and day.  Image-

    tracking difficulties at night might be mitigated by using a photon-

    counting array or image intensifier (or microchannel plate) instead of

    a single photodetector.  There are also some concerns, regarding the

    effects on conventional astronomical nighttime observations, of thermal

    currents caused by the observatory dome being open during the day.


        Because optical bandwidths of these incoherent Amateur Optical SETI

    receivers will be much wider than the effective optical bandwidths in

    coherent Professional Optical SETI receivers, there is no concern for

    anticipating or removing local line-of-sight Doppler chirps (drifts).

    These chirps can be as high as 50 kHz/s (Table 2 and Equ. 40).  Such

    drifts are insignificant for optical bandwidths of the order of 100 GHz

    in any reasonable amount of observation (dwell) time.  Allowance should

    be made for Doppler shifts of the ETI transmitter and Fraunhofer lines

    when making a detailed search of specific frequencies, since these

    shifts can be comparable to the width of a Fraunhofer line (Table 2

    and Equ. 39).  For specific laser frequencies not coinciding with

    Fraunhofer lines, this requires knowledge of our line-of-sight velocity

    relative to the star being observed.  However, for transmissions and

    observations within Fraunhofer lines, the receiver could simply be

    tuned for minimum Planckian starlight noise.  As before, it is assumed

    that ETIs will remove their local line-of-sight transmitter Doppler

    shift (and chirp) with respect to their star.


        It should be noted for the record that thermoelectrically-cooled

    CCD (Charged Coupled Device) cameras are now available to the amateur

    which allow the sixteenth magnitude to be reached in under one minute

    of integration, with negligible threshold effects.  Even the fastest

    photographic film has such low quantum efficiency that only a few

    percent of the photons are converted to exposed film grains.  The dark

    current count for the photon-counter should ideally be kept below about

    five hundred counts per second if the SNR of a potential ETI signal is

    not to be excessively degraded.  It may be reasonable to suggest that

    eliciting the help of thousands of enthusiastic amateur optical

    astronomers might considerably aid the low-sensitivity Targeted Search

    of the entire Northern and Southern Hemisphere skies.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 47


            HOW TO BUILD YOUR OWN AMATEUR OPTICAL SETI OBSERVATORY


        How easy and cheap will it be for amateur astronomy organizations

    to combine the efforts and resources of their members to participate in

    this activity?  The answer to this is that there is no hard figure.  It

    depends very much on how sophisticated and sensitive one is prepared to

    be.  There will always be tradeoffs between sensitivity and cost.

    Figure 9 shows a basic Amateur Optical SETI system based on the use of

    twenty-centimeter (eight-inch) or larger telescopes.  While smaller

    telescopes (reflectors or refractors) may be used, the potential

    detectability of ETI signals will be degraded.


        However much the reader may be excited by the statements made

    herein, the reality of the situation is that SETI, be it conducted in

    the microwave or optical spectrums, can become a rather monotonous

    endeavor.  It is an activity well-suited for automation.  Hence, the

    system to be described makes extensive use of computer-driven hardware.

    The same computer can be used to analyze the spectral (optical and

    electrical) data obtained with various signal processing algorithms to

    see if there is a weak ETI signal hidden within the noise.


        Particularly for an optical receiver with a wide tuning range,

    i.e., one that uses a grating monochromator, the mass of the

    additional equipment required to be attached would be excessive for a

    small telescope.  Hence, the preferred way to couple the SETI receiver

    to the telescope would be via several meters of a single strand of

    low-loss multimode optical fiber.  The output face of the fiber-optic

    umbilical replaces the slit normally found in a monochromator/

    spectrograph.  This approach is additionally useful if cryogenic

    cooling techniques have to be employed at the optical front-end.


        The optical fiber is positioned to be centrally placed in the focal

    plane and the fiber input arranged by suitable imaging, i.e., SELFOC

    lens (GRIN rod), to match to the telescope's diffraction limited spot

    size (Airy disk).  In practice, if daylight SETI is not attempted, the

    optical fiber's aperture and FOV may be increased to accommodate image

    wander caused by typical atmospheric turbulence conditions.  The

    diagram shows a beamsplitter sharing the image with the CCD, though the

    CCD might make use of off-axis guiding to avoid light loss, i.e., for

    locking onto a guide star.  The graded-index lens also serves to

    convert the focal ratio of the telescope to one that matches the fiber

    for maximum throughput, this operation being equivalent to matching

    numerical apertures.  Some mode scrambling may be required to ensure

    that the output numerical aperture (N.A.) of the fiber is fully

    illuminated at all times, whatever the light launching conditions.

    This ensures that amplitude fluctuations do not occur in the slitless

    monochromator or spectrometer as the image of the star and transmitter

    dances around the entrance (input end) of the fiber.


        Multimode optical fiber essentially depolarizes light, so that any

    polarization analysis equipment must be situated at the input, focal

    plane end of the fiber.  There will be an inherent throughput loss of

    about fifty percent in the monochromator because high resolution

    diffraction gratings have a tendency to polarize light.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 48


     --------------------   Beamsplitter/Off-Axis Guiding CCD Imaging/

    |      8" - 14"      |-- _  Tracking Camera------------->--------------

    |                    |  |_|->-                                         |

    | Schmidt-Cassegrain |--      | Optional Polarizing Optics & Multimode |

     --------------------         | Fiber-Optic Umbilical in Focal Plane   |

                  |  |            |                                        |

                  |  |            |    -----------------     -----         |

               ---------          |   |     Scanning    |   | APD |        |

              |  Drive  |<>-       ->>|     Grating     |->-| or  |->-     |

               ---------    |         |  Monochromator  |   | PM  |   |    |

                            |          -----------------     -----    |    |

                            |                 ^                       |    |

                            |                 |                     -----  |

                            |                 |                    | Amp | |

                            |                 |                    |     | |

                            |                 |                     -----  |

                            |                 |                       |    |

       -----------          |                 |    -------------      |    |

      |           |         |                 |   |   Optional  |     |    |

      |    VDT    |         |                 |   |   Spectrum  |<----|    |

      |           |         |                 |   |   Analyzer  |     |    |

       -----------          |                 |    -------------      |    |

          |   |             | RS-232/IEEE-488 |                       |    |

      ------------- <>------------<>----------    Baseband Signal     |    |

     |     PC      |<-------------<----------------------<------------|    |

      ------------- <-----                            -------         |    |

        Optional          | CCD Video                |  Low  |        |    |

      FFT Spectrum        |                Audio <---|  Pass |<-------|    |

      Analyzer Card       |                          | Filter|        |    |

                          |                           -------         |    |

                          |          -----------                      |    |

                          |         |   Video   |<--------------------     |

                          |         |  Monitor  |<-------------------------|

                          |         |   Or TV   | CCD Video                |

                          |          -----------                           |

                          |                                                |

                           ------------------------------------------------


    Figure 9 -


    Basic Amateur Optical SETI or Poor Man's Optical SETI.  Only a single

    photodetector is used, which can be either an avalanche photodiode

    (APD) or a photomultiplier (PM).  The optical filter can be a computer-

    controlled scanning monochromator or a relatively inexpensive fixed

    interference filter.  Additional focal-plane optical fibers and photo-

    detectors may be employed for maintaining star-lock.  An electronic

    mixer and filter may be included between the photon-counting receiver

    and the display/audio devices to beat down the detected spectrum to

    lower frequencies.  This electrical local-oscillator would likely be

    driven by the PC.  The TV (video) monitor can be used both to display

    the star field via the CCD imaging/tracking camera and the detected

    signal, or these could be displayed on the PC.  Later, several

    telescopes could be slaved together to increase light gathering power,

    sensitivity, and SNR of a would-be ETI signal.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 49


        The output of the fiber is expanded and collimated in the usual way.

    However, if a single photodetector is employed, as indicated in

    Figure 9, some form of cylindrical output lens will be required to

    match the aspect ratio of the beam from the diffraction grating(s) to

    the photodetector.  For this reason, some investigators may prefer to

    use a photomultiplier with a large cathode to collect all the photons.


        As this document was nearing completion, the author's attention was

    drawn to a recent report by Douglas et al [93] on an astronomical

    heterodyned spectrometer.  The title of the report is somewhat

    misleading as this author feels that the word "homodyned" would have

    been more applicable.  Unless fringes actually move across a photo-

    detector at an interference beat rate, a system cannot be said to

    really employ heterodyne techniques.  However, the report does describe

    a high resolution spectrometer using a fiber-optic umbilical, and in

    that respect is relevant to the discussion here.


        In Figure 9, the purpose of the conventional CCD is just to display

    the star field on a television (TV) or personal computer (PC) monitor

    and for precision star tracking.  In this preferred design, it does

    not detect the ETI signal; that job is performed by a relatively fast

    single solid-state Avalanche photodetector (APD) or photomultiplier

    (PM).  APDs have the advantage of high quantum efficiency but the

    disadvantage of higher dark current; the converse being the case for

    photomultipliers.  With state-of-the-art solid-state photodetectors

    like the RCA SPCM-100-PQ Single Photon-Counting Module, the cooling to

    reduce dark current noise is applied via Peltier (thermoelectric)

    coolers, and their mass is relatively insignificant.  Though the

    imaging CCD can itself be used as the ETI detector, this approach might

    compromise detection sensitivity and bandwidth.  It would also require

    a very high-quality and expensive CCD array.  This would be incompa-

    tible with the use of the device for star field imaging and fine

    guidance because of the narrow-band optical filtering requirements of

    the SETI receiver.  The input end of the fiber-optic umbilical might 

    be dithered in the focal plane to aid guidance, and to ensure fine

    dynamic-tracking on a star's image.  Indeed, four additional optical

    fibers with unfiltered photodetectors might surround the ETI-detecting

    fiber and be used for this purpose.


        Note that the audio monitor in the schematic is for listening to

    the hiss of stellar noise and perhaps audibly detecting the presence of

    a strong artificial signal.  The Planckian background in a 100 GHz

    optical bandwidth for a 2nd Magnitude star, produces a photon-count

    rate of about 18,000 s^-1, which should be compared to the dark-current

    count rate for a high-quality cooled photodetector or photomultiplier

    of less than several hundred counts per second.  An essential component

    will be a variable threshold detector connected to an alarm system.

    The TV or PC monitor could also serve to display a noisy raster and the

    presence of any coherent signals.  It is unlikely though, that an ETI TV

    picture will pop up (in any TV standard), considering the deficiencies

    in SNR and bandwidth with amateur receivers!  However, if high SNR and

    bandwidth can be supported by ETI transmitters and terrene professional

    receivers over interstellar distances, a sequentially scanned TV [36]

    picture would be the most effective bridge between our two cultures.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 50


        Even as this is being written, substantial developments are being

    made in terrestrial video compression techniques for High Definition

    TeleVision (HDTV).  Compression ratios as high as 100:1 have been

    achieved with only a small reported impairment in perceived video

    quality. [87]  A 100:1 compression ratio would reduced bandwidth

    required by the digitized video signal by a factor of 100.  If it was

    applied to an ETI interstellar communication system, the effective CNR

    could be increased by 20 dB.  Of course, we cannot yet comment on

    whether ETIs would use such techniques, or what their level of

    sophistication is.  What we can say, however, is that optical communi-

    cations technology, along with video compression techniques, would make

    it much easier to transmit high-quality "real-time" video signals over

    thousands of light years.  What was previously thought possible with

    old-fashioned analog TV signals and a 1 GW transmitter over ten light

    years now becomes possible over one hundred light years.


        ETI signals may be linearly or circularly polarization-modulated,

    so that as previously mentioned, some means of analyzing the light would

    be required to detect the modulation.  This polarization analyzing

    system could include a polarizer and a Soleil-Babinet compensator or

    quarter/half-wave retardation plates.  The latter might be spun to

    cause sampling of all polarization states.  If the signals are

    frequency (or phase) modulated with relatively small deviations, then

    only the professional heterodyne receiver will be able to recover the

    modulation envelop, whatever the signal strength.



        Shopping List -


     1.  20-36 cm (8"-14") or larger Schmidt-Cassegrain with periodic error

         correction drive and RS-232 or IEEE-488 interface.


                 Low $2,000                          High $12,000


     2.  CCD imaging and tracking system with RS-232 or IEEE-488 interface.


                 Low $1,100                          High $3,200


     3.  Polarizaton analyzer.


                 Low $100                            High $2,000


     4.  Fiber-optic umbilical and connectors (ten meters).


                 Low $150                            High $150


     5.  Triple grating monochromator (resolution 0.1 to 0.01 nm) with

         RS-232 or IEEE-488 interface.


                 Low $1,000                          High $6,500


     6.  APD photon-counter or photomultiplier front-end.


                 Low $200                            High $3,000


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 51


     7.  Front-end cooling system.


                 Low $200                            High $1,000


     8.  PC with fixed (hard) disk and RS-232/IEEE-488 interfaces.


                 Low $1,000                          High $3,000


     9.  Spectrum analyzer PC card or stand-alone 0-10 MHz spectrum

         analyzer.


                 Low $1,000                          High $4,400


    10.  Video and audio monitors (PC may double-up for this purpose).


                 Low $200                            High $200


    11.  Miscellaneous


                 Low $1,000                          High $2,000


    12.  Labor - Free


           Total cost: Low $8,000; High $38,000



        Thus, the low-end cost is approximately $8,000; less if telescope

    and computer system are already available.  This is an affordable

    activity for many clubs and societies.  Some of the equipment above is

    optional and may be replaced by less sophisticated devices, e.g., the

    automatic scanning monochromator could be replaced by a manual

    monochromator or a series of discrete high-Q bandpass filters, such as

    a 656 nm H_alpha filter.  By omitting the electrical spectrum analyzer

    and using a fixed optical bandpass filter, instead of a scanning

    monochromator, the cost of a rudimentary system adaptation to an

    existing telescope would fall to about $3,000.  This figure will be

    affordable for some individual enthusiasts.


        Instead of a scanning grating monochromator, a scanning grating

    spectrometer might be used, where a linear CCD array is employed to

    produce an essentially instantaneous display of optical spectra (over a

    limited band) on a video display terminal (VDT).  However, this does

    not allow for the flexibility of employing a single photodetector

    optimized for bandwidth and photon-counting sensitivity, and thus this

    approach will be more expensive and/or less sensitive.  Often, mono-

    chromators use triple gratings in order to obtain spectral resolutions

    of 0.01 nm or better.  As previously mentioned, a set of four optical

    fibers surrounding the signal fiber and corresponding low-bandwidth

    photodetectors might be used in the system for fine guidance purposes.


        Within this account of Amateur Optical SETI is the ambitious

    desire to detect the modulation envelop.  Hopefully, the ETI signals

    will be intensity or polarization-modulated so that the modulation can

    be detected by an incoherent receiver.  For weak signals, we may only


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 52


    be able to detect the presence of an optical carrier or beacon (perhaps

    Signpost SETI) and then only after some signal integration.  However,

    this would be a significant achievement by itself, allowing for more

    powerful professional receivers to be built later for detecting the

    modulation envelope.


        As a spin-off from the MOP, electronic Multi-Channel Spectrum

    Analyzers (MCSAs) could be developed for the Amateur Optical SETI

    market, eventually making Amateur Optical SETI an even more affordable

    activity for optical astronomy clubs and societies.  Perhaps ETIs do

    not expect their signals to be detected until the targeted civili-

    zations make a collective, cooperative, and systematic search of their

    home skies!



              THE MICROWAVE AND OPTICAL OBSERVING PROJECT (MOOP)


        The following is the author's tentative list of objectives for the

    optical extension to MOP.  It is called the Microwave and Optical

    Observing Project, otherwise known by the acronym MOOP.


        Project Goal:  To continue the search for microwave (and millimeter

                       wave) signals of extraterrestrial intelligent origin

                       and to extend the search into the infrared and

                       visible spectrums.


        Project Objectives:


        1.  To use existing large ground-based optical telescopes to carry

            out a Targeted Search of about 800 nearby solar-type stars with

            spectral resolution of 1 kHz and sensitivity 10^-16 W/m^2.

            For selected laser wavelength bands corresponding to

            atmospheric windows in the visible and infrared wavelength

            range (350 nm to 12,000 nm).


        2.  To use existing large ground-based optical telescopes to carry

            out a Targeted Search of about one million nearby solar-type

            stars with spectral resolution of 100 kHz and sensitivity

            10^-10 W/m^2.  For selected laser wavelength bands corres-

            ponding to atmospheric windows in the visible and infrared

            wavelength range (350 nm to 12,000 nm).


        3.  To use dedicated groups of amateur astronomers and coordinate

            their activities to conduct with their ground-based optical

            telescopes a low-sensitivity Targeted Search of about 800

            nearby solar-type stars with spectral resolution < 1 nm, and

            sensitivity 10^-16 W/m^2.  For selected wavelength bands in the

            visible and near-infrared wavelength range (350 nm to 1,200 nm).


        Duration:  2001 - 2010


        Cost:  $20M for starters.  Assumes use of existing large ground-

               based professional telescopes and the cost of modifying the

               telescopes for adaptive reception and Optical SETI.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 53


 ==========================================================================

     Table 5  Nearest stars favored for MOP's 800 star Targeted Search


 ==========================================================================

  RGO        RH         DEC    Relative  Distance  Apparent   Spectral

 Number    H  M  S     D  M    Vel. km/s   L.Y.    Magnitude    Type

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

 559A     14 36 11   -60 37.8    -22.2     4.39    -0.01     G2  eye, SB

 559B     14 36 11   -60 37.8     -0.0     4.39     1.33     K0  eye

 144       3 30 34    -9 37.6    +15.4    10.79     3.73     K2  eye

 820A     21  4 40    38 30.0    -64.3    11.01     5.22     K5  eye, AB

 820B     21  4 40    38 30.0    -63.5    11.01     6.03     K7  eye

 845      21 59 33   -56 59.6    -40.4    11.20     4.69     K4  eye

  71       1 41 45   -16 12.0    -16.2    11.77     3.50     G8  eye

 380      10  8 19    49 42.5    -26.0    14.68     6.59     K7

 166A      4 12 58    -7 43.8    -42.4    15.90     4.43     K1  eye

 702A     18  2 56     2 30.6     -7.2    16.72     4.03     K0  eye, UD

 702B     18  2 56     2 30.6    -10.0    16.72     6.00     K5  eye, SB

 663A     17 12 16   -26 31.8     -0.7    17.25     4.32     K0  eye

 663B     17 12 16   -26 31.9     -0.2    17.25     5.10     K1  eye

 570A     14 54 32   -21 11.5    +19.5    18.11     5.78     K5  eye

 664      17 13  9   -26 28.6     -1.3    18.31     6.34     K5

 783A     20  7 55   -36 13.7   -130.3    18.42     5.31     K3  eye

 764      19 32 28    69 34.6    +26.7    18.52     4.69     K0  eye

  34A      0 46  3    57 33.1     +9.4    18.94     3.44     G0  eye

 139       3 17 56   -43 15.6    +86.8    20.25     4.26     G5  eye

  66A      1 37 54   -56 26.9    +22.5    21.32     5.07     K0  eye

  66B      1 37 54   -56 26.9    +19.4    21.32     5.90     K0  eye

 566A     14 49  5    19 18.4     +3.9    22.03     4.54     G8  eye

 566B     14 49  5    19 18.4     +5.4    22.03     6.91     K5

 892      23 10 52    56 53.5    -17.8    22.18     5.57     K3  eye

  33       0 45 45     5  1.4    -12.6    22.62     5.75     K2  eye

 105A      2 33 20     6 39.0    +23.4    22.64     5.82     K3  eye, UD

 667A     17 15 33   -34 56.2     +1.2    23.29     5.91     K3  eye

 667B     17 15 33   -34 56.2     -0.0    23.29     7.20     K5

  17       0 17 29   -65 10.1     +8.8    23.44     4.23     G0  eye

  68       1 39 47    20  1.6    -33.7    24.32     5.24     K1  eye

 178       4 47  7     6 52.5    +24.3    24.70     3.19     F6  eye

 673      17 23 16     2 10.2    -28.3    24.70     7.53     K7

 666A     17 15 15   -46 35.1    +23.6    24.89     5.48     G8  eye

 713      18 21 58    72 42.7    +32.5    25.27     3.58     F7  eye, SB AB

 879      22 53 37   -31 49.8     +9.0    25.47     6.49     K5

 117       2 50  7   -12 58.3    +18.8    25.67     6.05     K0

  23A     11 15 31    31 48.6    -15.5    25.67     3.79     G0  eye, SB AB

 423B     11 15 31    31 48.6    -15.9    25.67     4.80     G0  eye, SB

 216B      5 42 21   -22 26.2    -10.1    26.50     6.15     K2

 216A      5 42 23   -22 27.8     -9.7    26.50     3.60     F6  eye

 502      13  9 32    28  7.9     +6.1    27.17     4.26     G0  eye

 785      20 12 10   -27 11.0    -54.2    27.17     5.73     K0  eye, SB

 506      13 15 47   -18  2.0     -8.5    27.39     4.74     G6  eye

 827      21 22 20   -65 35.6    -29.5    28.10     4.22     F6  eye

 231       6 11 44   -74 44.2    +34.9    28.35     5.08     G5  eye

  75       1 44  6    63 36.4     +1.8    28.59     5.63     K0  eye

 ==========================================================================


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 54


        Table 5 is an extract from the list (provided by the SETI

    Institute) of the closest stars that form the group of 800 stars which

    are subject to MOP's "Targeted Search". [40-45]  Presently, the list

    covers stars in the range of 4.39 to 81.5 light years from Earth, but

    is subject to review.


        UD  = White Dwarf                     559A = Alpha Centauri A

        EB  = Eclipsing Binary                144  = Epsilon Eridani

        AB  = Astrometric Binary               71  = Tau Ceti

        SB  = Spectral Binary

        eye = Visible to the unaided eye under good conditions (apparent

              visual magnitude less than 6.0 - about 224 stars).



        The Amateur Optical SETI system just described is quite capable of

    being upgraded in sensitivity by slaving "n" similar telescopes

    together, and combining the photons from the "n" optical fibers through

    a single monochromator and photon-counter.  In this way, ten telescopes

    of 25 cm (10") aperture would have approximately the same sensitivity

    as a single 81 cm (32") telescope, but in a more cost-effective manner.

    Of course, ten small telescopes would not have the same ability as a

    81 cm (32") telescope to reject the effects of daylight, should

    daylight Optical SETI be desired.  The approach could be adopted, as

    with the original Cyclops Study, to gradually increase the number of

    telescopes as the need arises and availability of funding, assuming

    that ETI signals are not detected soon after system activation.


        A large, single barrel, telescope could be constructed using

    several smaller mirrors, each with its own focus and optical fiber.  In

    this way, only one drive system would be required.  A much simpler

    construction is possible because we do not need to image a star field,

    just collect as many photons as possible from the region around a

    single star (light-bucket mode of operation).  This could be somewhat

    like the Multi-Telescope Telescope (MTT) that has been designed by

    Georgia State University's (GSU) Center for High Angular Resolution

    Astronomy (CHARA). [92]



              LIST OF PREVIOUS AND PRESENT OPTICAL SETI ACTIVITIES


        The following material has been extracted from a comprehensive list

    on all modern-day SETI activities so far, and was prepared in October

    of 1991 by Dr. Jill Tarter of the SETI Institute.


        Dr. Tarter lists sixty-three different SETI observing programs,

    starting with Project Ozma in 1960 at the Green Bank National Radio

    Observatory in West Virginia, to Harvard University's microwave search

    of Messier M31 and M33 from the Oak Ridge Observatory.  This list also

    includes the 1983-1984 Amateur Microwave SETI program organized by

    Dr. Kent Cullers, which used Silicon Valley Hams with their satellite

    TV dishes (TVROs).


        Of this list of sixty-three observing programs, only three were or

    are concerned with Optical SETI, and these optical programs are listed


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 55


    below.  Optical SETI observing programs currently amount to less than

    5 percent of all SETI programs to date.  In actuality, the ratio is

    nearer 3 percent because Shvartsman's two programs can be considered as

    one.  This supports the author's contention that Optical SETI has

    suffered benign neglect.



    Date:                         1973 - 1974

    Observer(s):                  Shvartsman et al. "MANIA"

    Site:                         Special Astrophysical Observatory

                                  (former Soviet Union)

    Instrument Size (m):          0.6

    Search Wavelength (nm):       550

    Frequency Resolution (Hz):    df = 100 kHz (dWl = 10^-7 nm)

    Objects:                      21 Peculiar Objects

    Reference:                    48

    Comments:                     Optical search for short pulses of length

                                  3 X 10^-7 to 300 seconds, and narrow

                                  laser lines.  Prototype for later system

                                  on 6 m telescope.


    Date:                         1978 to Present

    Observer(s):                  Shvartsman et al. "MANIA"

    Site:                         Special Astrophysical Observatory

                                  (former Soviet Union)

    Instrument Size (m):          6

    Search Wavelength (nm):       550

    Frequency Resolution (Hz):    df = 100 kHz (dWl = 10^-7 nm)

    Objects:                      93 Objects

    Flux Limits:                  < 3 X 10^-4 of the optical flux is

                                  variable in any object observed.

    Total Hours:                  250

    Reference:                    54 and 58

    Comments:                     Have searched 30 Radio Objects with

                                  Continuous Optical Spectra to date,

                                  looking for optical pulses from

                                  potential Kardashev type II or III

                                  civilizations.


    Date:                         1990 to Present

    Observer(s):                  Betz

    Site:                         Mt. Wilson

    Instrument Size (m):          1.65 m element of Townes IR

                                  Interferometer

    Search Wavelength (um):       10.6

    Frequency Resolution (Hz):    3.5 MHz (35 m/s)

    Objects:                      100 nearby solar-type stars

    Flux Limits:                  1 MW transmitter out to 20 psc

    Total Hours:                  Continuing

    Reference:                    57

    Comments:                     Search for IR beacons at CO2 laser

                                  frequency using narrowband acousto-

                                  optical spectrometer.



    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



Article 16816 of sci.astro:

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Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.misc,rec.arts.sf.science

Subject: Electronic Journal of the ASA - January 1992 (Part E)

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    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



                          THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF

                  THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                     Volume 3, Number 6E - January 1992


                         ###########################


                              TABLE OF CONTENTS


                         ###########################


           * ASA Membership and Article Submission Information


           * The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in

             the Optical Spectrum, Part E - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                         ###########################


                         ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION


        The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic

    (EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the

    Atlantic, Incorporated.  The ASA is a non-profit organization dedicated

    to the advancement of amateur and professional astronomy and space

    exploration, as well as the social and educational needs of its members.


        ASA membership application is open to all with an interest in

    astronomy and space exploration.  Members receive the Journal of the

    ASA (hardcopy sent through United States Mail - Not a duplicate of this

    Electronic Journal) and the Astronomical League's REFLECTOR magazine.

    Members may also purchase discount subscriptions to ASTRONOMY and

    SKY & TELESCOPE magazines.


        For information on membership, you may contact the Society at any

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        or telephone the Society Recording at (404) 264-0451 to leave your

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    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



        ASA Officers and Council -


        President - Don Barry

        Vice President - Nils Turner

        Secretary - Ken Poshedly

        Treasurer - Karla Poshedly

        Board of Advisors - Bill Bagnuolo, Jim Bitsko, Eric Greene

        Council - Jim Bitsko, Bill Black, Mike Burkhead, Bill Crane,

                  Toni Douglas, Ruth Greene, Larry Klaes, Tano Scigliano,

                  John Stauter, Gary Thompson, Bob Vickers



        ARTICLE SUBMISSIONS -


        Article submissions to the EJASA on astronomy and space exploration

    are most welcome.  Please send your on-line articles in ASCII format to

    Larry Klaes, EJASA Editor, at the following net addresses or the above

    Society addresses:


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        or - ...!decwrl!mtwain.enet.dec.com!klaes

        or - klaes%mtwain.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com

        or - klaes%mtwain.enet.dec.com@uunet.uu.net


        Telephone Number: (508) 493-3283


        You may also use the above addresses for EJASA back issue requests,

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        When sending your article submissions, please be certain to include

    either a network or regular mail address where you can be reached, a

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        DISCLAIMER -


        Submissions are welcome for consideration.  Articles submitted,

    unless otherwise stated, become the property of the Astronomical

    Society of the Atlantic, Inc.  Though the articles will not be used for

    profit, they are subject to editing, abridgment, and other changes.

    Copying or reprinting of the EJASA, in part or in whole, is encouraged,

    provided clear attribution is made to the Astronomical Society of the

    Atlantic, the Electronic Journal, and the author(s).  Opinions

    expressed in the EJASA are those of the authors' and not necessarily

    those of the ASA.  This Journal is Copyright (c) 1992 by the

    Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Inc.











    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



                            COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION


        This document may be freely copied to other electronic bulletin

    boards, but only in an unmodified form and in its entirety, with the

    following copyright notice attached.  No license is given to reproduce

    this document in electronic or hardcopy form for profit.  However, the

    media may reproduce short extracts for the purposes of furthering the

    Optical SETI debate.


 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 * Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley                    Copyright (c) 1992            *

 * Consultant                                                              *

 * AMIEE, SMIEEE,                                                          *

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 * Columbus Astronomical Society,                                          *

 * Volunteer, SETI Group, Ohio State.                                      *

 *                                                                         *

 *                                    "Where No Photon Has Gone Before &   *

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   U.K. inquires may be made to the above U.S. address or:

 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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Version: 1.00

File: EJASAV3.N06



      THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                         January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6E


                            Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992











              THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)

                        IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART E


                Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach




                                       by




                             Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                            FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS

                               545 Northview Drive

                               Columbus, Ohio 43209

                                  United States































    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 56


                                  DISCUSSION


        The thirty-year-old rationale which would have us believe that the

    low frequency end of the microwave regime is the place to search for

    ETI signals is seriously suspect.  If the underlying assumption of

    present-day SETI lore that the best ETIs could do would be to send us

    very weak low bandwidth signals is swept away, then almost all the

    so-called problems that are usually advanced to dismiss the optical

    approach become insignificant.  This is even more so if the use of

    optical heterodyne reception is assumed.  The increased immunity of

    such systems to background noise means that the signal detectability

    constraints set by Planckian starlight are essentially removed.  In

    addition, with dechirping of the local-oscillator to remove local

    Doppler drift along the line-of-sight, problems from local Doppler

    drift are eliminated.


        Because of the very narrow field-of-view of a photodetector array,

    Doppler drift compensation can be made simultaneously to all pixels in

    the array to a very high degree.  The larger bandwidths mean that the

    effects of finite laser linewidths, Doppler shift, and residual drift

    are minimized, and the number of frequencies to search in the entire

    optical spectrum is in reality no more than in the microwave spectrum.


        Up to now, the SETI community has taken some comfort in the fact

    that the obvious explanation as to why we have not detected ETI signals

    is simply that they are too weak and that we need sophisticated

    hardware and signal processing algorithms to extract this information.

    An even simpler explanation for the lack of success so far is that

    there are strong signals but they are elsewhere in the electromagnetic

    spectrum.  Of course, Tipler [39] has an even more simpler explanation.


        It is the author's prediction that in years to come, it will be

    hard to understand how anyone in the late Twentieth Century, e.g.,

    people like Frank Tipler, could think it possible that humanity was all

    alone - that Earth is atypical in that we are the "first civilization".

    If anything, it is far more likely that the answer to "Where are they?"

    is that we live in a "Cosmic Zoo".  Tipler believes that ETI tech-

    nologies only slightly superior to our own, if they exist, would have

    produced self-replicating von Neumann machines (probes) that would have

    rapidly populated the galaxy.  Therefore, since we have not detected

    these machines or they have not contacted us, ETIs do not exist.


        The "Cosmic Zoo" rationale is probably the only viable alternative

    explanation as to why ETIs do not appear to have colonized the entire

    galaxy.  We could just as easily be a typical or atypical civilization,

    developing in a sector of the galaxy that is off limits for physical

    contact, i.e, the Prime Directive so much loved by STAR TREK fans.  As

    was stated in the Preface, if the author has any doubts about the

    efficacy of the Optical SETI, it surely has to do with the Kingsley

    Paradox of "why communicate when one can just as easily travel?".

    Nevertheless, the author is sufficiently convinced about the

    plausibility of this Optical SETI rationale to believe it worthwhile to

    construct his own Optical SETI Observatory and mount his own search.

    He intends to start this project as soon as possible.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 57


        The author has taken some pains to try and understand why he

    believes Tipler is wrong.  The author finds it very difficult to accept

    that only once in the ten billion year history of our galaxy has

    intelligent life arisen.  Secondly, since the dawn of the Space Age,

    i.e., since about 1957, he has thought that life was common throughout

    the galaxy, and as a STAR TREK and science fiction fan, he has believed

    that the future for humanity was in space.  Thus, the idea that there

    would be no one to meet out there is an anathema.


        It is the author's intuitive feeling, that soon we will learn 

    that life appears relatively rapidly, given the right environmental

    conditions.  Life, rather than being the exception to the rule, is

    the inevitable consequence of the mixture of certain elements,

    temperatures, cosmic catastrophes, and time.  In the roughly fifteen

    billion year existence of the Universe, there will have been no

    shortage of the latter.  At the moment, we still have a very sketchy

    picture of how life arose on this planet - that possibly, lines of

    evolution were erased and new lines initiated several times during

    Earth's history, due to bombardment by meteors, planetoids, and comets.


        If ETIs are operating in the visible spectrum we should not expect

    to see flashing lights in the sky, for the power required to do this

    and outshine their stars is much greater than required to establish a

    decent communications channel.  Free space optical communications will

    be a mature technology for any spacefaring civilization.  It seems

    reasonable to assume that they will spinoff this technology for SETI

    transmitters should they wish to contact emerging technical

    civilizations.  The fact that optical magic frequencies are hard to

    identify at this time, save for 10,600 nm, is not an argument that such

    frequencies do not exist.


        Perhaps the only reasons for ETIs to build very large microwave

    arrays would be to eavesdrop on radio frequency leakage from primitive

    technical civilizations (like us), to beam microwave power, for astro-

    physical research, or to communicate with other galaxies.  Even this

    author has some problems in believing that the civilizations of

    extraterrestrials would be so altruistic and long-lived to attempt

    electromagnetic communications across the intergalactic voids.  The

    interstellar eavesdropping scenario is also problematic, as it is

    likely that a developing technical civilization only produces

    substantial radio frequency leakage for a short period in its history.

    In time, other technologies like fiber optics will replace high-power

    radio and TV transmitters, and military radar systems will be

    decommissioned.  For this reason, if we attempt eavesdropping with large

    radio frequency antennas ourselves, failure to detect such signals may

    not imply very much about the existence or lack thereof of ETIs.  Thus,

    if the MOP does not detect ETI in the next decade, we should not jump

    to the conclusion that we are alone in the Milky Way galaxy.


        On the other hand, some civilizations may be continually threatened

    by cosmic catastrophes in the form of bombardment by planetoids.  These

    races may have instigated powerful radar early warning systems for

    planetary defense purposes.  These comments are good examples of how

    difficult it is to predict the future.  Even Arthur C. Clarke and


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 58


    Stanley Kubrick appear to have been caught out by Pan Am going bankrupt

    before it had a chance to ply the heavens between Earth and the Moon

    (2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, to the strains of "The Blue Danube"), or that

    there would be no Soviet Union in 1992, let alone in 2001 or 2010!  We

    can only hope (and pray) that there will be a dynamic American Space

    Program in 2001.  We should not be too hard on Arthur Clarke, for

    without his idea concerning "Extra-Terrestrial Relays" (Page 41), when

    the word "Extraterrestrial" meant something completely different, the

    Soviet Union might still be in existence.  One notes in passing that

    the spaceship DISCOVERY, which was central to Arthur Clarke's 2001 and

    its sequel 2010, used microwave dishes for its communications link with

    Earth. [94-96]  Surely, the main (high-gain) link should have been a

    laser-based system, notwithstanding the bright Earth background, and the

    high solar background that might on occasion be viewed by the DISCOVERY

    looking back towards Earth!  A heterodyning telescope of several meters

    diameter on the DISCOVERY, and a similar system on or near Earth, could

    easily sustain a 1-10 Gbit/s data rate out to Jupiter and beyond.


        We cannot even be sure that ETIs would want their signals to be

    detected within an atmosphere or otherwise too easily.  These are

    prevalent assumptions among most SETI proponents.  There might be

    logical reasons for ETIs to think that only when a technical

    civilization begins to "emerge" from its planet would it be truly

    mature enough, and in a culturally receptive frame of mind, to receive

    signals from ETIs.  Thus, the recipients' atmosphere itself might be

    used as an automatic protective blanket to avoid cultural shock.  In a

    way, the electromagnetic search for ETI is one of the greatest hunts

    and detective stories ever.  Unfortunately, there are still so few

    clues.



                                  CONCLUSIONS


        The author feels that it is still an open question as to what are

    the optimum electromagnetic frequencies for interstellar communi-

    cations.  As he concluded in his talk last year to the SETI Institute:

    "The jury is still out as to whether ETIs are signalling with low-

    energy microwave photons, or with high-energy optical photons".  What

    the author will say is that he feels a strong case has been made in

    this paper for the SETI community and NASA to review their present

    attitude towards the optical approach.  This does not mean that the

    Microwave Observing Project (MOP) should be abandoned or severely

    modified, since clearly we need to do a exhaustive search in the

    microwave spectrum.  Some of the signal processing techniques developed

    for MOP will also be applicable to the optical search.


        In many ways the Cyclops Report may have become the cornerstone

    upon which much of present-day SETI lore rests.  While the report

    itself was a very comprehensive study of Microwave SETI, and of high

    technical quality, certain very conservative assumptions in that study

    lead this author to consider the report flawed.  Just like for NASA's

    studies of the efficacy and cost of Microwave PowerSat technology back

    in the 1970s, if we ask the wrong questions we are likely to get

    incorrect answers.  Attempting to lift all the material for PowerSats


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 59


    from the deep gravitational well of Earth is sure to make the

    technology uneconomic and damaging to the environment.  Sweep away the

    inherent anthropocentric Assumption of Ineptitude of present SETI lore

    and the problems associated with the optical approach disappear.


        There appear to be some indications of group-think within the SETI

    community, where it is easier to agree with the consensus than disagree.

    The U.S. Space Shuttle CHALLENGER tragedy of 1986 is a classic example

    of how group-think and the desire to conform can have immense ramifi-

    cations.  The issues may not be so acute here:  Nevertheless, they

    represent an impediment to the acceptance of new (or revisited) ideas.


        Planning for an extensive optical search should be started now, so

    that if by the year 2000 the results of the MOP are negative, we can

    immediately initiate Professional Optical SETI activities.  This would

    be a natural extension to MOP so that the program could eventually be

    renamed MOOP, the Microwave and Optical Observing Project.  In the

    meantime, amateur astronomers could be conducting a low-level

    (low-sensitivity) optical search, helping to establish some ground

    rules for a later high-sensitivity professional optical search.


        It is believed that Professional Optical SETI with large hetero-

    dyning telescopes is compatible with Professional Optical Astronomy 

    in that they can share most of the hardware, yet be undertaken at

    different times so as not to interfere with each other's observations.

    There is theoretical and experimental evidence to suggest that the new

    adaptive telescope technology using Rayleigh or Sodium Resonance

    Fluorescence laser guide stars [69] can be made to work during daylight

    hours.  This clearly has important ramifications for the concept of

    Symbiotic (Serendip) Optical SETI.  The idea of modifying Earth's Great

    Optical Telescopes for Symbiotic (Serendip) Professional Optical SETI

    has many attractions; where the scientific endeavors of conventional

    and SETI astronomy could be of mutual benefit to each other.


        There is probably a case here for an automated retrospective

    historical study of stellar spectrographic plates to see if ETI signals

    actually exist and are on record.  It is quite possible that anomalous

    spectral lines will be found in the record, signifying laser trans-

    missions, but which had previously been overlooked, fogged the film,

    saturated the recording media, been mistaken for natural bright

    emission lines, or put down to "technical problems with the spectro-

    graphic equipment".  It would not be the first time that a major

    scientific discovery had been missed for lack of attention and

    curiosity.  There does appear to be some doubt as to whether C.W.

    ETI signals, if present, would have been accidently detected during

    conventional optical astronomy and recognized for what they were.  This

    is the crux of the matter as far as the efficacy of Amateur Optical

    SETI is concerned.


        It is left as an exercise for others to determine the probability

    of missing an ETI signal at any particular flux level.  It is the very

    concept that ETIs are supposed to be rare which makes it plausible to

    suggest that the historic accidental discovery of ETI by optical

    astronomers would be unlikely.


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        Initially, to reduce the optical search time, we would concentrate

    on efficient laser transition frequencies presently known to humanity,

    and Fraunhofer dark lines.  It is suggested that we must keep an open

    mind here.  For thirty years we have been digging relatively deep

    trenches in a very small corner of our electromagnetic backyard.  Was

    it prudent to do this without at least turning over the topsoil in the

    rest of the electromagnetic garden, particularly in that part of the

    spectrum where solar output peaks, and which tells us and ETIs most

    about our Universe?


        The study also seems to indicate that the amateur SETI enthusiast

    could make a useful contribution to the search using medium-size

    amateur optical telescopes with photon-counting receivers.  It is

    certainly more debatable whether Optical ETI signals are present at

    sufficient flux intensities to be detectable by small incoherent

    telescopes.  However, although the theoretical SNRs described for small

    photon-counting (direct-detection) receiving telescopes are not

    particularly impressive, even if very high mean EIRPs are assumed, it

    must be remembered that ETI signals are likely to be pulsed and far

    more detectable than the C.W. signals assumed here for the simplified

    analyses.  This would be particularly true for detection systems with

    optical bandwidths greater than 100 GHz.


        Today, the technology is available to construct efficient,

    highly-sensitive photon-counting receivers for the visible and near-

    infrared regimes.  For several thousand dollars, top-of-the-line

    amateur optical telescopes could be equipped with the instrumentation

    to make unattended frequency searches of selected targeted stars.  If

    this new scientific endeavor really takes off, market growth will lead

    to considerable reductions in hardware and software costs, making this

    activity more affordable.


        Not only would it be possible to slave many amateur telescopes

    together at one site, to produce the equivalent of a larger telescope,

    but it may also be possible to slave telescopes at different sites and

    average the data.  This would, of course, require accurate time

    synchronization between the telescopes, though this should not be much

    of a problem.  However, the requirement to match the wavelength

    accuracy of the optical filter or monochromator to within 100 GHz is

    probably a more severe obstacle.  In the case of co-site slaving, where

    pre-detection combining of photons would occur, the SNR would increase

    at a rate proportional to the number of identical telescopes.  For

    remote site slaving, where only post-detection electrical signal

    combining could be employed, the SNR would increase at a rate

    proportional to the square root of the number of identical telescopes.


        While it is the author's view that Professional Optical SETI ought

    not to require the use of more sophisticated signal processing

    algorithms like KLTs [73,86] for extracting very weak pulsed signals

    from noise, Amateur Optical SETI may well benefit from its use.


        Perhaps one of the interesting aspects of the Amateur Optical SETI

    concept using incoherent detection is that not only may there be a

    useful contribution made by the enthusiast, but that such activities


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    may occur before Professional (Visible) Optical SETI and its coherent

    detection systems get established.  A low-level search by amateurs

    might help set some of the criteria for later professional searches,

    even if the results are negative.  Amateur optical SETI has the

    potential to bring SETI to the masses, something that has not really

    been possible at microwave frequencies, except in a limited way for a

    few enthusiastic radio hams with modified satellite receivers

    (AMSETI). [26]  It also has the power to cause a renaissance in public

    interest for astronomy and the night sky.  It is an activity in which

    amateur optical astronomers who live in big cities can participate

    unincumbered by light pollution, the bane of conventional amateur

    astronomers.  This could be the opportunity to dust off those old

    telescopes and put them to use again.


        It is clear [27-29] that today there is an enormous interest in

    SETI amongst the population.  Professional SETI scientists could tap

    into that interest to receive increased SETI funding and the cooperation

    of enthusiastic amateurs.


        It does not appear that Amateur Optical SETI at the infrared Carbon

    Dioxide (CO2) wavelength of 10,600 nm would be very sensible because of

    the limitations set by the essentially 24-hour day, 300 K temperature

    background of the atmosphere, particularly for small apertures.  As we

    have seen, Professional Optical SETI in the visible and near-infrared

    can use coherent or incoherent optical receivers.  The coherent

    approach is generally more sensitive but far more complex and

    expensive.  However, based on performance considerations, both ground-

    based Professional and Amateur Optical SETI in the infrared would have

    to be restricted to coherent receivers.  This represents a complexity

    and cost problem for the amateur.  Of course, there could be very

    powerful CO2 ETI transmitters present, as powerful as conjectured for

    Visible SETI that have so far escaped detection, for we may not been

    looking in the right direction at the right moment, with suitable

    detection equipment.  The CO2 observational work now being undertaken by

    Dr. Albert Betz and Professor Charles Townes [57] is addressing this

    issue.


        Presently, Dr. Jill Tarter and Deborah Schwartz-Koyler of the SETI

    Institute are involved with a NASA project (NASA NCC 2-407) titled:

    "Supporting Research and Technology Activities in the Preparation of a

    Three-Dimensional Map of the Infrared Sky".  The goal of this project

    is to construct a detailed three-dimensional model of the infrared sky,

    which will enable us to reconsider the question of the "best" frequency

    at which to conduct a search for electromagnetic radiation, which is

    indicative of the existence of an extraterrestrial technological

    civilization.  Thus, despite the general consensus that Microwave SETI

    has the greatest likelihood for success, others are even now beginning

    to probe deeper into the infrared part of the optical spectrum.


        Since the start of modern-day SETI thirty-two years ago, a strong

    Microwave SETI constituency has developed.  It will be understandable

    if this author's views are attacked by that community, for many SETI

    researchers have much at stake - decades of work invested in the

    microwave regime and professional reputations.  I would council the


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    following thought:  The public, and by that I mean the taxpayer, and

    Members of Congress, should clearly be informed that it is quite

    possible that the search for ETI in the microwave spectrum will be

    unsuccessful - not because such signals are not present, but because we

    are presently tuned to the wrong frequencies.  It may well be necessary

    to extend the search into the optical regime before we can be sure

    whether electromagnetic ETI signals do or do not exist.  It will not

    look good for the SETI community if, in ten years time, they have to go

    back to Congress, cap in hand, and ask for more funding to extend the

    search into the optical regime after decades of maintaining that the

    optical approach was useless.  Note that these sentiments have

    previously been expressed privately to both the SETI Institute and

    NASA.  It is the author's contention that SETI has been "hijacked" by

    radio astronomers.  It should now be clear to the reader that for

    humanity to have devoted less than 5 percent of its SETI observation

    programs to the optical regime, and an even smaller percentage to basic

    Optical SETI research, was probably unwise.  The author hopes that

    readers will urge the SETI Institute, NASA, and Congress to rectify

    this omission.


        NASA should be able to put an end to recent problems in deploying

    large high-gain microwave antennas in space, e.g., on the GALILEO

    probe, by moving to fixed high-gain optical antennas as soon as

    possible.  During the next few decades, other lights (visible and near-

    infrared) will appear in the sky of terrene origin:  They will be the

    advanced laser communication systems of GEO and LEO satellites, along

    with signals coming back to Earth from NASA's next generation of deep

    space probes. [63-66]  Sometime next century, humans will be seen

    walking on the planet Mars.  These HDTV television signals are likely

    to traverse most of the distance between Mars and Earth via laser, be

    relayed around the globe via laser-based geosynchronous satellites, and

    arrive in people's home via optical fiber.  When humanity sends out

    (non-relativistic) interstellar probes to investigate nearby star

    systems, the data and pictures of those encounters (hopefully with

    other planetary systems) will come back to Earth via laser.  The

    computer technology of the day will also be substantially dependent on

    photonics.  See the January 13, 1992 issue of NEWSWEEK (pp. 56-57) for

    the article on "The Highway to the Future", describing a fiber-optic

    multi-gigabit data highway system being proposed for the United States.

    Also see the January 9, 1992 issue of ELECTRONIC DESIGN (pp. 73-80) for

    the article on "The World of Communications is Moving to Fiber Optics".

    The author has seen the future, and it is photonic.


        Truly, the superior communications and computing technology of the

    future will be photonic, a technology that is likely to be around for 

    a while.  Indeed, in the future, one of the main uses for low-gain

    microwave space communications might well be the "acquisition" of the

    party at the other end of the link, so that the high-gain laser

    communications system can be locked on!  The amateur SETI enthusiast,

    with the right photonic receiving equipment, will be able to tune in on

    these Earth-bound optical transmissions.  How ironic that next century

    the complaint will surely arise that terrene optical transmissions are

    interfering with our ability to carry out Optical SETI free of false

    alarms!  Now where have we heard that before?


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        We end as we began.  If we look at the basic beliefs that

    differentiate the proponents of the Microwave and Optical SETI

    rationales, or the belief in Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs), an

    area that has been even more controversial than SETI, we find that the

    respective convictions hinge on our assumptions about the technical

    abilities of ETIs.  In the case of Microwave SETI, the proponents

    believe that while intelligent life within in galaxy is not rare, that

    ETIs do not have the technical wherewithal to get the full benefits of

    the superior optical technology for interstellar communications.  If

    the reader subscribes to the Optical SETI rationale, they will

    additionally believe that ETIs have the technical prowess to use the

    superior laser technology in an effective manner.  Advocates of UFOs

    essentially accept that ETI technology is so superior to our own that

    rapid interstellar travel is easy for them, and if these ETIs actually

    wanted to make contact, they would make physical contact.  In the end,

    the reader's belief will be limited only by their own vision.


        The theoretical results quoted in this paper are based on standard

    text book relationships, familiar to students of electrical

    engineering, physics, and astronomy.  Please refer to Appendix A for a

    list of most of these formulas and specimen calculations.  Perhaps the

    main reason for the difference between the conclusions of this analysis

    and many previous comparative SETI analyses is that the author has

    shown a bit more imagination.


        A few additional closing statements.  It may appear from the

    author's comments throughout this document that he does not hold high

    regards for the efforts over the past thirty-two years of many noted

    (microwave) SETI scientists.  This would be far from the truth.  It is

    the nature of science that for every two steps forward, it may often

    take a step back in the light of new discoveries or new ideas.  It is

    very easy with hindsight to criticize those who have gone before, but

    without their predecessors' work and developments in other scientific

    fields and technologies, it is unlikely that the new discovery or idea

    would ever have seen the light of day.  Each generation of scientists

    and engineers builds on the foundations laid by earlier generations.


        Readers are reminded that there is little which is innovative about

    the contents of this document which have not previously been described

    by Charles Townes [46-47,80] and others - the author has just been a

    bit more forceful.  Innovative ideas, like good wines, take time to

    mature.  The author hopes that the effort he has expended in this

    revisiting of the optical approach to the search for extraterrestrial

    intelligence will at last cause Optical SETI to be seriously considered

    by the scientific community as warranting closer study.


        This paper could be the start of an exciting new chapter in both

    SETI and professional/amateur optical astronomy.  One thing which can

    be said for certain is that should a professional or amateur

    astronomer discover electromagnetic (radio or optical) signals from

    ETIs, neither they nor humanity will ever be the same.  There is no

    doubt that a Nobel Prize will await the discoverer.  Perhaps now is the

    time to get familiar with those Post-Detection SETI Protocols! [25]

    See Appendix B for a description of these protocols.


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                                  REFERENCES


    General SETI Literature -


     1.  Cocconi, Giuseppe, and Philip Morrison, "Searching For Inter-

         stellar Communications", NATURE, Vol. 184, No. 4690, September 19,

         1959, pp. 844-845.  Also ref. 13.


     2.  Drake, Frank D., "How Can We Detect Radio Transmissions from

         Distant Planetary Systems?", SKY & TELESCOPE, Vol. 19, No. 3,

         January 1960, pp. 140-143.  Also ref. 13.


     3.  Drake, Frank D., "Project Ozma", PHYSICS TODAY, Vol. 14,

         April 1961, pp. 40-42, 44, and 46.  Also ref. 13.


     4.  Kardashev, N. S., "Transmission of Information by Extraterrestrial

         Civilizations", SOVIET ASTRONOMY-AJ, Vol. 8, 1964, p. 217.  Also

         ref. 13.


     5.  Oliver, Bernard (Editor), PROJECT CYCLOPS: A DESIGN STUDY OF A

         SYSTEM FOR DETECTING EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENT LIFE, NASA

         Publication CR 114445, Revised Edition, 1973.


     6.  Lunan, Duncan, "Man and the Stars - Contact and Communication with

         other Intelligence", SOUVENIR PRESS, 1974.


     7.  Christian, James L. (Editor), EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE -

         THE FIRST ENCOUNTER, Prometheus Books, 1976.


     8.  Morrison, Philip, John Billingham, and J. Wolfe, THE SEARCH FOR

         EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE, NASA SP-419, 1977.


     9.  Mallove, Eugene F., M. M. Connors, Robert L. Forward, and

         Z. Paprotny, A BIBLIOGRAPHY ON THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL

         INTELLIGENCE, NASA Reference Publication 1021, March 1978.


    10.  Nicolson, Iain, THE ROAD TO THE STARS, Westbridge Books, 1978.


    11.  Edelson, E., WHO GOES THERE?, Doubleday & Co., 1979.


    12.  Asimov, Isaac, EXTRATERRESTRIAL CIVILIZATIONS, Crown Publishers,

         1979.


    13.  Goldsmith, Donald (Editor), THE QUEST FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE,

         University Science Books, 1980.


    14.  Billingham, John. (Editor), LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE, The MIT Press

         and NASA Conference Publication 2156, 1981.


    15.  Singer, Clifford E., "When to Look Where", COSMIC SEARCH, Vol. 4,

         No. 1, January-June 1982, pp. 22-23.




    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

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    16.  Drake, Frank D., J. H. Wolfe, and C. L. Seeger (Editors), SETI

         SCIENCE WORKING GROUP REPORT, NASA Technical Paper 2244, 1983.


    17.  THE PLANETARY REPORT, Vol. 3, No. 2, 4-5, March/April 1983.


    18.  Baugher, J. F., ON CIVILIZED STARS - THE SEARCH FOR INTELLIGENT

         LIFE IN OUTER SPACE, Prentice-Hall, 1985.


    19.  Sagan, Carl, CONTACT, Simon & Schuster Inc., 1986.


    20.  McDonough, Thomas, THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE:

         LISTENING FOR LIFE IN THE COSMOS, John Wiley & Sons, 1987.


    21.  Horowitz, Paul, "A Status Report on The Planetary Society's SETI

         Project", THE PLANETARY REPORT, Vol. 7, No. 4, July/August 1987,

         pp. 8-10.


    22.  Feazel, Angie, "Does Extraterrestrial Life Exist?", EJASA, Vol. 1,

         No. 4, November 1989.


    23.  Holm, Lars W., "Suggestions for an Intragalactic Information

         Exchange System", EJASA, Vol. 1, No. 4, November 1989.


    24.  Scott, A. (Editor), FRONTIERS OF SCIENCE, Basil Blackwell, 1990,

         Chapter 14, pp. 185-199.


    25.  White, Frank, THE SETI FACTOR, Walker & Company, 1990.


    26.  Bova, Ben, and Byron Preiss (Editors), FIRST CONTACT: THE SEARCH

         FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE, NAL/Penguin Books, 1990.


    27.  Sagan, Carl and Frank Drake, "The Search for Extraterrestrial

         Intelligence", Scientific American Special Issue, EXPLORING SPACE,

         1990, pp. 150-159.


    28.  Harrison, Albert A., and Alan C. Elms, "Psychology and the Search

         for Extraterrestrial Intelligence", BEHAVIORAL SCIENCE, Vol. 35,

         1990, pp. 207-218.


    29.  Blum, Howard, "SETI, Phone Home", THE NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE,

         October 21, 1990.


    30.  Gray, Robert H., "Isotropically Detectable Interstellar Beacons",

         JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY, Vol. 43, No. 12,

         December, 1990, pp. 531-536.


    31.  Lawton, A. T., P. Wright, "The Search for Companions to Epsilon

         Eridani", JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY, Vol. 43,

         No. 12, December, 1990, pp. 556-560.


    32.  Jones, Barrie W., "SETI: The Search for Extraterrestrial

         Intelligence", PHYSICS EDUCATION, Vol. 26, No. 1, January 1991,

         pp. 52-57.



    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 66


    33.  McDonough, Thomas R., "Searching for Extraterrestrial

         Intelligence", SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, Vol. 15, No. 3, Spring 1991,

         pp. 255-262.


    34.  Faulkes, Zen, "Getting Smart About Getting Smarts", SKEPTICAL

         INQUIRER, Vol. 15, No. 3, Spring, 1991, pp. 263-268.


    35.  Letters To The Editor, SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, Vol. 16, No. 1,

         Fall 1991, pp. 94-102.


    36.  Devito, Carl L., "Languages, Science and the Search for Extra-

         terrestrial Intelligence", INTERDISCIPLINARY SCIENCE REVIEWS,

         Vol. 16, No. 2, 1991, pp. 156-160.


    37.  Horowitz, Paul, "A Morning With Philip Morrison - Exploring the

         Extraterrestrial Mind", THE PLANETARY REPORT, Vol. 11, No. 5,

         September/October 1991, pp. 4-7.


    38.  Williams, John M., "The Star Hunters", FINAL FRONTIER, November/

         December 1991, pp. 38-40, 50-53.


    39.  Tipler, Frank J., "Alien Life", A review of the book "The Cosmic

         Water Hole" by Emmanuel Davoust, MIT Press, NATURE, Vol. 354,

         No. 6351, November 28, 1991, pp. 334-335.



    The Microwave Observing Project (MOP) -


    40.  Gulkis, Sam and Edward T. Olsen, "The NASA SETI Program At JPL",

         PROCEEDINGS OF THE SETI WORKSHOP, Green Bank Workshop Series,

         May 1985.


    41.  Cullers, D. Kent, Ivan R. Linscott, and Bernard M. Oliver, "Signal

         Processing In SETI", COMMUNICATIONS OF THE ACM, Vol. 28, No. 11,

         November 1985, pp. 1151-1163.


    42.  Oliver, Bernard M., and Michael J. Klein, PROGRAM PLAN FOR THE

         SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI), Ames Research

         Center and Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA, March 30, 1987.


    43.  Olsen, E. T., R. B. Brady, D. J. Burns, G. T. Cooper, W. T. S.

         Deich, S. Gulkis, M. F. Garyantes, and M. J. Klein, "A Development

         Signal Processing System For The NASA All Sky Survey", JPL SETI

         REPRINT SERIES, No. 003, October 1988.


    44.  Klein, Michael J., E. T. Olsen, and N. A. Renzetti, "The NASA SETI

         Sky Survey: Recent Developments", TDA PROGRESS REPORT, April 15,

         1989, pp. 218-226.


    45.  Gribbin, John, "Is Anyone Out There?", NEW SCIENTIST, May 25,

         1991, pp. 29-32.





    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 67


    Optical SETI -


    46.  Schwartz, R. N., and Charles H. Townes, "Interstellar and Inter-

         planetary Communication by Optical Masers", NATURE, Vol. 190,

         No. 4772, April 15, 1961, pp. 205-208.  Also ref. 47.


    47.  Cameron, A. G. W. (Editor), INTERSTELLAR COMMUNICATION,

         W. A. Benjamin, 1963, p. 223.


    48.  Shvartsman, V. F., COMMUNICATIONS OF THE SPECIAL ASTROPHYSICAL

         OBSERVATORY, No. 19, 1977, pp. 5-39.


    49.  Connes, Pierre, "Olbers Paradox Revisited and the Future of

         Intelligence", CONFERENCE ON LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE, Paris, France,

         November 19-21, 1979.


    50.  Beskin, G. M., S. I. Neizvestnyi, A. A. Pimonov, V. L.

         Plakhotnichenko, and V. F. Shvartsman, "A Photometry System to

         Search for Optical Variability on Time-Scales of 3 X 10^-7 to

         300 s: Main Results", C. M. Humphries (editor), INSTRUMENTATION

         FOR ASTRONOMY WITH LARGE OPTICAL TELESCOPES, D. Reidel Publishing

         Company, 1982, pp. 181-184.


    51.  Townes, Charles H., "At What Wavelength Should We Search for

         Signals from Extraterrestrial Intelligence?", PROC. NATIONAL

         ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, U.S.A., Vol. 80, 1983, pp. 1147-1151.


    52.  Zuckerman, Ben, "Preferred Frequencies for SETI Observations",

         ACTA ASTRONAUTICA, Vol. 12, No. 2, 1985, pp. 127-129.


    53.  Betz, Albert, "A Directed Search for Extraterrestrial Laser

         Signals", ACTA ASTRONAUTICA, Vol. 13, No. 10, 1986, pp. 623-629.


    54.  Shvartsman, V. F., "SETI in Optical Range with the 6 m Telescope"

         (MANIA), BIOASTRONOMY - THE NEXT STEPS, G. Marx (Editor), Kluwer

         Academic Publishers, 1988, pp. 389-390.


    55.  Filippova, L. N., N. S. Kardashev, S. F. Likhachev, and V. S.

         Strelnitskij, "On the Strategy of SETI", VAL CENIS THIRD BIO-

         ASTRONOMY PROCEEDINGS,  To be published by Springer-Verlag, 1991.


    56.  Rather, John D. G., "Lasers Revisited: Their Superior Utility for

         Interstellar Beacons", JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY

         SOCIETY, Vol. 44, No. 8, August, 1991, pp. 385-392.


    57.  Betz, Albert, "A Search for IR Laser Signals", USA-USSR JOINT

         CONFERENCE ON THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENT LIFE,

         University of California, Santa Cruz, August 5-9, 1991.


    58.  Beskin, Gregory, M., "Results of Searches for Optical Signals of

         Extraterrestrial Intelligence", USA-USSR JOINT CONFERENCE ON THE

         SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENT LIFE, University of

         California, Santa Cruz, August 5-9, 1991.



    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 68


    Hubble Space Telescope (HST) -


    59.  McRoberts, Joseph J., SPACE TELESCOPE, NASA Publication EP-166,

         1982.


    60.  Hubble Space Telescope Media Reference Guide, Published by NASA

         and Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.


    61.  Field, George, and Donald Goldsmith, THE SPACE TELESCOPE,

         Contemporary Books, Inc., 1989.


    62.  Brown, Robert A., "Systematic Aspects of Direct Extrasolar Planet

         Detection", BIOASTRONOMY - THE NEXT STEPS, Edited by G. Marx,

         Kluwer Academic Publishers, 1988, pp. 117-123.



    Free-Space Communications -


    63.  Lesh, James R., and Marc D. Rayman, "Deep-Space Missions Look to

         Laser Communications", LASER FOCUS/ELECTRO-OPTICS, Vol. 24,

         No. 10, October, 1988, pp. 81-86.


    64.  Begley, David, "Lasers for Spaceborne Communications", PHOTONICS

         SPECTRA, Vol. 23, No. 2, February, 1989, pp. 73-80.


    65.  Begley, David, and Bhogi Boscha, "Laser Diodes Conquer the

         Challenge of Space Communications", PHOTONICS SPECTRA, Vol. 23,

         No. 4, April, 1989, pp. 147-155.


    66.  Begley, David L., and Bernard D. Seery (Editors), FREE-SPACE LASER

         COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES II, SPIE Proceedings, Vol. 1218,

         January, 1990.


    67.  Clarke, Arthur C., ASCENT TO ORBIT, Chapters 4 and 8, John Wiley

         and Sons, 1984.



    Adaptive Optics -


    68.  Mercer, L.B., "Adaptive Coherent Optical Receiver Array",

         ELECTRONICS LETTERS, Vol. 26, No. 18, 30th August 1990,

         pp. 1518-1520.


    69.  Gardner, Chester S., Byron M. Welsh, Laird A. Thompson, "Design

         and Performance Analysis of Adaptive Optical Telescopes Using

         Laser Guide Stars, PROC. IEEE, Vol. 78, No. 11, November, 1990,

         pp. 1721-1743.


    70.  Carts, Y. A., "Adaptive Optics Goes Public", LASER FOCUS WORLD,

         August, 1991, pp. 45-48.






    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 69


    Optoelectronics -


    71.  Pratt, William K., LASER COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, John Wiley, 1969.


    72.  Yariv, Amnon, INTRODUCTION TO OPTICAL ELECTRONICS, Second Edition,

         Holt, Rinehart, & Winston, 1976.


    73.  Gagliardi, Robert M., and Sherman Karp, OPTICAL COMMUNICATIONS,

         John Wiley & Sons, 1976.


    74.  Osinski, M. and J. Buss, "Linewidth Broadening Factor in Semi-

         conductor Lasers - An Overview", IEEE J. QUANTUM ELECTRONICS,

         Vol. QE-23, No. 1, January 1987, pp. 9-29.


    75.  Barry, J. R., and E. A. Lee, "Performance of Coherent Optical

         Receivers", PROC. IEEE, Vol. 78, No. 8, August 1990,

         pp. 1369-1394.


    76.  Wagner, Richard E., and Richard A. Linke, "Heterodyne Lightwave

         Systems: Moving Towards Commercial Use", IEEE LIGHTWAVE COMMUNI-

         CATION SYSTEMS (LCS), Vol. 1, No. 4, November 1990, pp. 28-35.


    77.  Green, Paul E., and Rajiv Ramaswami, "Direct Detection Lightwave

         Systems: Why Pay More?", IEEE LIGHTWAVE COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS

         (LCS), Vol. 1, No. 4, November 1990, pp. 36-49.


    78.  Mcintyre, Robert J., Comments on "Performance of Coherent Optical

         Receivers", PROC. IEEE, Vol. 79, No. 7, July 1991, pp. 1080-1082.


    79.  Hecht, Jeff, UNDERSTANDING LASERS, Howard W. Sams & Company, 1988.


    80.  Perry, Tekla, S., "The Innovative Mind at Work - Charles H. Townes:

         Masers, Lasers, and More", Special Report, IEEE SPECTRUM, Vol. 28,

         No. 12, December 1991, pp. 32-33.


    81.  Kingsley, Stuart A., D. E. N. Davies, B. Culshaw, and D. Howard,

         "Fiberdyne Systems", Proceedings of FOC '78, Information

         Gatekeepers, Chicago, September 6-8, 1978, pp. 152-158.


    82.  Kingsley, Stuart A., and S. Lange, "Interferometric optical fibre

         sensors and multimode heterodyning", FOC '80, Information

         Gatekeepers, San Francisco, September 16-18, 1980.



    Communications -


    83.  Schwartz, M., INFORMATION TRANSMISSION, MODULATION AND NOISE,

         McGraw-Hill, 1970.


    84.  Jakes, W. C. J. (Editor), MICROWAVE MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS, John

         Wiley & Sons, 1974.


    85.  Johnson, Richard C., and Henry Jasik, (Editors), ANTENNA

         ENGINEERING HANDBOOK, McGraw-Hill Book Company, 1984.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 70


    86.  Dixon, Robert S., and Charles A. Klein, "On the Detection of

         Unknown Signals", USA-USSR JOINT CONFERENCE ON THE SEARCH FOR

         EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENT LIFE, University of California,

         Santa Cruz, August 5-9, 1991.


    87.  Ang, Peng H., and Peter A. Ruetz, "Video Compression Makes Big

         Gains", IEEE SPECTRUM, Vol. 28, No. 10, October 1991, pp. 16-19.



    Astronomy -


    88.  Motz, Lloyd and Anneta Duveen, ESSENTIALS OF ASTRONOMY,

         2nd Edition, Columbia University Press, 1977.


    89.  Pasachoff, Jay M. and Marc L. Kutner, UNIVERSITY ASTRONOMY,

         W.B. Saunders Co., 1978.


    90.  Lang, Kenneth R., ASTROPHYSICAL FORMULAE, Springer-Verlag, 1978.


    91.  Bracewell, Ronald N., and Robert H. MacPhie, "Searching for

         Nonsolar Planets", ICARUS, Vol 38, p. 136, 1979.  Also ref. 13.


    92.  McAlister, H., "The CHARA Multi-Telescope Telescope", EJASA,

         Vol. 1, No. 1, August 1989.


    93.  Douglas, N., F. Maaswinkel, H. Butcher, and S. Frandsen, "A Study

         of the Potential of Heterodyned Holographic Spectrometry for

         Application in Astronomy", ESO Technical Report No. 15, EUROPEAN

         SOUTHERN OBSERVATORY, June 1991.



    General Science Fiction -


    94.  Clarke, Arthur C., 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, NAL Books, 1968.


    95.  Clarke, Arthur C., 2010: ODYSSEY TWO, Ballantine Books, 1982.


    96.  Clarke, Arthur C., 2061: ODYSSEY THREE, Ballantine Books, 1987.


















    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



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    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



                          THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF

                  THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                     Volume 3, Number 6F - January 1992


                         ###########################


                              TABLE OF CONTENTS


                         ###########################


           * ASA Membership and Article Submission Information


           * The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in

             the Optical Spectrum, Part F - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                         ###########################


                         ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION


        The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic

    (EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the

    Atlantic, Incorporated.  The ASA is a non-profit organization dedicated

    to the advancement of amateur and professional astronomy and space

    exploration, as well as the social and educational needs of its members.


        ASA membership application is open to all with an interest in

    astronomy and space exploration.  Members receive the Journal of the

    ASA (hardcopy sent through United States Mail - Not a duplicate of this

    Electronic Journal) and the Astronomical League's REFLECTOR magazine.

    Members may also purchase discount subscriptions to ASTRONOMY and

    SKY & TELESCOPE magazines.


        For information on membership, you may contact the Society at any

    of the following addresses:


        Astronomical Society of the Atlantic (ASA)

        c/o Center for High Angular Resolution Astronomy (CHARA)

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        U.S.A.


        asa@chara.gsu.edu


        ASA BBS: (404) 985-0408, 300/1200 Baud.


        or telephone the Society Recording at (404) 264-0451 to leave your

    address and/or receive the latest Society news.








    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



        ASA Officers and Council -


        President - Don Barry

        Vice President - Nils Turner

        Secretary - Ken Poshedly

        Treasurer - Karla Poshedly

        Board of Advisors - Bill Bagnuolo, Jim Bitsko, Eric Greene

        Council - Jim Bitsko, Bill Black, Mike Burkhead, Bill Crane,

                  Toni Douglas, Ruth Greene, Larry Klaes, Tano Scigliano,

                  John Stauter, Gary Thompson, Bob Vickers



        ARTICLE SUBMISSIONS -


        Article submissions to the EJASA on astronomy and space exploration

    are most welcome.  Please send your on-line articles in ASCII format to

    Larry Klaes, EJASA Editor, at the following net addresses or the above

    Society addresses:


        klaes@mtwain.enet.dec.com

        or - ...!decwrl!mtwain.enet.dec.com!klaes

        or - klaes%mtwain.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com

        or - klaes%mtwain.enet.dec.com@uunet.uu.net


        Telephone Number: (508) 493-3283


        You may also use the above addresses for EJASA back issue requests,

    letters to the editor, and ASA membership information.


        When sending your article submissions, please be certain to include

    either a network or regular mail address where you can be reached, a

    telephone number, and a brief biographical sketch.


        DISCLAIMER -


        Submissions are welcome for consideration.  Articles submitted,

    unless otherwise stated, become the property of the Astronomical

    Society of the Atlantic, Inc.  Though the articles will not be used for

    profit, they are subject to editing, abridgment, and other changes.

    Copying or reprinting of the EJASA, in part or in whole, is encouraged,

    provided clear attribution is made to the Astronomical Society of the

    Atlantic, the Electronic Journal, and the author(s).  Opinions

    expressed in the EJASA are those of the authors' and not necessarily

    those of the ASA.  This Journal is Copyright (c) 1992 by the

    Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Inc.











    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992



                            COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION


        This document may be freely copied to other electronic bulletin

    boards, but only in an unmodified form and in its entirety, with the

    following copyright notice attached.  No license is given to reproduce

    this document in electronic or hardcopy form for profit.  However, the

    media may reproduce short extracts for the purposes of furthering the

    Optical SETI debate.


 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 * Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley                     Copyright (c) 1992           *

 * Consultant                                                              *

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 *                                    "Where No Photon Has Gone Before &   *

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Version: 1.00

File: EJASAV3.N06



      THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC


                         January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6F


                            Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992











              THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)

                        IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART F


                Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach




                                       by




                             Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley


                            FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS

                               545 Northview Drive

                               Columbus, Ohio 43209

                                  United States































    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 71


                                  APPENDIX A


                       THEORY AND SPECIMEN CALCULATIONS



    The Drake Equation:


    Fundamental to all SETI approaches is the belief that there are a

    reasonable number of technological civilizations out there who might be

    trying to communicate with us.


    The following formula for the number of technological civilizations in

    the galaxy is a modified form of the one devised in 1961 by Frank Drake

    [2-3] of Cornell (also President of the SETI Institute) and is known

    as the famous "Drake Equation": [13,25]


    N = R*.fp.ne.fl.fi.fc.L                                              (1)


    where  R* = number of stars in the Milky Way galaxy (400 X 10^9),

           fp = fraction of stars that have planetary systems (0.1),

           ne = average number of planets in such star systems that can

                support life (1),

           fl = fraction of planets on which life actually occurs (0.1),

           fi = fraction of such planets which intelligent life arises

                (0.01),

           fc = fraction of intelligent beings knowing how to communicate

                with other civilizations (0.1),

           L  = average lifetime (fraction of the age of its star) of such

                technical civilizations (0.001).



    Substituting what some might say are conservative values given in

    parentheses for the entire Milky Way galaxy:


                                   N = 4,000


    Thus, there could be a minimum 4,000 worlds for us to detect in our

    galaxy.  If there were only 4,000 technical civilizations within a

    galaxy that is 100,000 light years in diameter, then the probability 

    of detecting ETI signals is likely to be small.  However, many SETI

    scientists and exobiologists give more optimistic values for these

    parameters, and thus yield higher values for N.  If fp, fl, fi, fc, 

    and L are significantly higher, our galaxy would be teeming with

    intelligent technical civilizations.  If we assume that the average

    lifetime of a star is 10 billion years, then a value of L = 0.001

    implies that civilizations can last 10 million years.  Clearly, there

    is a substantial degree of uncertainty in the value of L.


    Within 1,000 light years of Sol there are 10 million stars, of which

    1 million are solar-type.  Thus, taking a more optimistic value for

    "N", the SETI community reasons that there is a significant chance of

    detecting an ETI signal if we "look" out to 1,000 light years, assuming

    of course, that we are tuned to the correct frequencies.  The issue of

    the correct frequencies to search is at the heart of this paper.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 72


    Apparent Stellar and Signal Magnitudes:


    The relationship between Apparent Stellar Magnitude (m) [88-90] and the

    brightness or intensity of a solar-type star (or a laser operating at or

    near the peak of the photopic response) may be expressed in the form:


    m = -[19 + (2.5).log(Ir)]                                            (2)


    where Ir = received intensity (W/m^2).



    The threshold for unaided eye visibility (dark sky) is m = +6.  As

    mentioned above, this expression may also be used to estimate the

    approximate visibility of a laser, i.e., the apparent signal magnitude,

    if its wavelength is not too far removed from the peak of the low-

    intensity visual response at 500 nm.  Here are several intensities and

    corresponding magnitudes as a function of range R.  We note that the

    Sun's total output (EIRP) = 3.90 X 10^26 watts:


    At R = 1 A.U. (1.496 X 10^11 m):


                               Ir =  1.39 kW/m^2

                               m  = -26.8


    Thus the solar flux density at normal incidence just outside Earth's

    atmosphere is 1.39 kW/m^2.



    At R = 10 L.Y. (9.461 X 10^16 m):


                               Ir =  3.48 X 10^-9 W/m^2

                               m  = +2.2



    At R = 100 L.Y. (9.461 X 10^17 m):


                               Ir =  3.48 X 10^-11 W/m^2

                               m  = +7.2*



    At R = 1,000 L.Y. (9.461 X 10^18 m):


                               Ir =  3.48 X 10^-13 W/m^2

                               m  = +12.2*


    * Not visible to the unaided eye.



    In Table 2 (Page 22), Apparent Magnitudes are quoted for stars,

    extrasolar planets, and ETI transmitters on the basis of the visual

    brightness or intensity of each object acting alone.  Because the

    reason for quoting the Apparent Magnitudes is to demonstrate that

    relatively strong laser transmitters are still "visually" weak, the

    Apparent Magnitudes are only given for the visible wavelength.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 73


    Planckian Starlight Background:


    For observations at night, the background Nb may be taken as the

    Planckian (black body) starlight continuum level (Npl). [88-90]  With

    no allowance for the Fraunhofer dark line absorption or bright line

    emission, the non-polarized spectral energy density is given by:


               2.PI.h.f^3r^2

    Npl = -----------------------  W/m^2.Hz                              (3)

          c^2[e^(h.f/k.T) - 1]R^2


    where  h  = Planck's constant (6.63 X 10^-34 J.s),

           c  = velocity of light (3 X 10^8 m/s),

           Wl = wavelength (656 nm),

           f  = frequency (c/Wl = 4.57 X 10^14 Hz),

           k  = Boltzmann's constant (1.38 X 10^-23 J/K),

           T  = temperature (5778 K),

           r  = radius of star (6.96 X 10^8 m),

           R  = distance of receiver (10 L.Y. = 9.461 X 10^16 m).



    At R= 1 A.U.:


                         Npl = 2.19 X 10^-12 W/m^2.Hz


    At R = 10 L.Y.:


                         Npl = 5.47 X 10^-24 W/m^2.Hz



    Full Width Half Maximum (FWHM) Angular Beamwidth:


    For the purposes of this part of the analysis, we have assumed a fully

    (uniformly) illuminated circular aperture and not a beam with a

    Gaussian intensity profile, as might be obtained from a laser with a

    single transverse TEMoo mode.  The diffraction limited half-power

    (-3dB) beamwidth is given by: [66,85]


                     (58.5).Wl

    FWHM Beamwidth = ---------  degrees                                  (4)

                         d


    where  Wl = wavelength,

           d  = diameter (aperture) of telescope.



    For d = 10 m (professional telescope) and Wl = 656 nm:


                      FWHM Beamwidth = 0.0138 arc seconds



    For d = 0.30 m (amateur telescope) and Wl = 656 nm:


                      FWHM Beamwidth = 0.461 arc seconds


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    Full Width Half Maximum (FWHM) Diameter:


    The diffraction limited far-field half-power (-3 dB) beam diameter is

    given by:


                    (1.02).Wl.R

    FWHM Diameter = -----------  meters                                  (5)

                         d



    At R = 10 L.Y.:


                  FWHM Diameter = 6.33 X 10^9 m = 0.0423 A.U.



    Gaussian Beamwidth:


    If a laser is used to illuminate a transmitting telescope, and if the

    aperture is greater than 4wo, theory gives the far-field 1/e^2 beam

    diffraction angle as:


                         (115).Wl

    Gaussian Beamwidth = --------  degrees                               (6)

                          PI.wo


    where wo = the TEMoo mode waist radius of the Gaussian beam.



    For a compromise aperture diameter d = 2wo, where a little diffraction

    will occur and produce some sidelobe energy, the (1/e^2) diffraction

    angle of the main lobe of a 10-meter telescope is given by:


                    Gaussian Beamwidth = 0.0172 arc seconds



    The corresponding (1/e^2) Gaussian beam diameter at the target is:


                        Gaussian Diameter = 0.0527 A.U.



    This is not that different to the previous case for a fully-illuminated

    aperture (no amplitude taper apodization).



    Rayleigh Range:


    For a Gaussian beam, the Rayleigh or near-field range of a diffraction

    limited single or multi-aperture (array) telescope is given by:


          PI.wo^2

    Ray = -------                                                        (7)

            Wl




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    At the Rayleigh range Ray, the beam diameter has expanded by a factor of

    1.414.  As the distance increases beyond the Rayleigh range, the beam

    diameter becomes proportional to distance, and the inverse square law

    applies to the beam intensity.



    Considering our 10-meter diameter transmitting telescope with a

    Gaussian beam, and a compromise aperture diameter d = 2wo.


    For wo = 5 m and Wl = 656 nm:


                              Ray = 1.2 X 10^8 m


                                  = 0.0008 A.U.



    Now consider an array that has a width of 10 km.


    For wo = 5 km and Wl = 656 nm:


                              Ray = 1.2 X 10^14 m


                                  = 800 A.U.



    Finally, consider a Mercury-size planetary phased-array as conjectured

    by Dr. John Rather. [56]


    For a wo = 2,439 km and Wl = 656 nm:


                              Ray = 2.8 X 10^19 m


                                  = 3,000 L.Y.



    With such a huge array, the inverse square law does not apply over

    considerable distances.  The Rayleigh range can stretch out over 3,000

    light years, so that the flux density is essentially undiminished by

    distance, accept for any interstellar absorption effects.  Of course,

    the implication that a pencil beam (celestial searchlight) some

    3,500 km in diameter, i.e, of planetary diameter, could be landed on 

    a desired planet 10 lights years away, let alone 3,000 light years,

    somewhat stretches even this author's imagination!



    Polar Response:


    The Polar Response (PR) or Directivity of a transmitting or receiving

    telescope with a single fully illuminated circular aperture, with no

    amplitude taper (apodization), is given by: [85]


         [2.J1{(PI.d/Wl).sin(PHI)}]^2

    PR = ----------------------------                                    (8)

            [(PI.d/Wl).sin(PHI)]^2


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    where  J1  = Bessel Function of the first kind,

           d   = diameter (aperture) of telescope,

           Wl  = wavelength,

           PHI = angular separation.



    For the 10-meter diameter telescope at 656 nm, the first sidelobe is

    located at 0.022 arc seconds from the main lobe, and the response is

    17.6 dB down.  The second sidelobe occurs at 0.036 arc seconds from the

    main lobe, and response is 23.8 dB down.



    In a diffraction limited space-based telescope system, where the angle

    PHI between the image of the transmitter and star is >= FWHM/2 (-3 dB

    half width half maximum), the Planckian suppression, ignoring

    scattering within the telescope, is given by:


                                             8

    Suppression Factor >= 10.Log[-------------------------]  dB          (9)

                                 PI.{(PI.d/Wl).sin(PHI)}^3



    Equ. 9 essentially shows that the suppression factor is inversely

    proportional to the telescope's aperture raised to the third power.

    For a transmitter at 10 light years, located 1 A.U. from its star, and

    centered on the main lobe of the receiver, the maximum angular

    separation of the star is 0.275 arcseconds.  Using the parameters for

    the 10-meter diameter 656 nm telescope which has a FWHM beamwidth of

    0.0138 arc seconds, we find that the condition PHI >= FWHM/2 is more

    than satisfied, and the minimum suppression factor for the Planckian

    starlight continuum is:


                              Suppression = 50 dB



    This value is added to the Signal-To-Planckian Ratio (SPR) to arrive at

    the effective SPR when a large telescope is diffraction limited, and

    viewing a nearby star system at right angles to the star's plane of

    ecliptic (Table 2, Line 23, Page 22).  The suppression factor can be

    larger than predicted by Equ. 9 (up to a limit set by scattering and

    secondary mirror diffraction) if the star's image happens to be situated

    in a response null.  However, scattering effects and non-ideal optics

    will set a limit to this suppression factor to between 40 and 50 dB.



    Antenna Gain:


    The gain of a uniformly illuminated antenna is given by: [5,71,85]


        4.PI.At

    G = -------                                                         (10)

         Wl^2


    where At = area of transmitting telescope mirror (78.5 m^2).


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    For a 10-meter diameter telescope at 656 nm:


                               G = 2.3 X 10^15


                                 = 153.6 dB



    Effective Isotropic Radiated Power (EIRP):


    The Effective Isotropic Radiated Power [5,8,85] is given by:


    EIRP = G.Pt  Watts                                                  (11)


    where Pt = transmitter power (W).



    For Pt = 1 GW:


                            EIRP = 2.29 X 10^24 W



    Received Signal Intensity:


    The received signal intensity just outside Earth's atmosphere is:


           EIRP

    Ir = --------                                                       (12)

         4.PI.R^2


    where  EIRP = effective isotropic radiated power (W),

           R    = range (10 L.Y. = 9.461 X 10^16 m).



    At a range of ten light years, a 1 GW transmitter EIRP = 2.29 X 10^24 W

    produces an intensity (Ir) just outside our atmosphere of

    2.04 X 10^-11 W/m^2.  For a perfect space-based 10-meter diameter

    telescope, the received signal power (Pr) is 1.6 nW.



    Received Signal Power:


    From Equs. 10, 11, and 12, and because the receiving aperture area

    At = PI.D^2/4, we may write the "perfect" received signal for the

    symmetrical telescope system in the simple form:


             PI^2.D^4

    Pr = Pt.-----------                                                 (13)

            16.R^2.Wl^2



    It can be clearly seen from the above, that the received power is

    proportional to D^4 and inversely proportional to Wl^2.  Thus, beamed

    optical links, particularly those operating in the visible spectrum,

    have the potential for tremendous throughputs.


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    A slightly simpler form of this expression has been used by Albert Betz

    in his recent CO2 paper. [57]  To a close approximation, Equ. 13 may be

    further simplified to:


               D^4

    Pr = Pt.--------                                                    (14)

            R^2.Wl^2



    A more conservative analysis for ground-based observatories, would take

    into account atmospheric transmission losses, aperture blocking, and

    spectrometer efficiency in the case of an incoherent receiver.  For a

    a ground-based telescope, the optical power reaching the photodetector

    is given by:


    Pr = Ir.Tr.Ae.Ar.SE                                                 (15)


    where  Ir = intensity just outside atmosphere (2.04 X 10^-11 W/m^2),

           Tr = atmospheric transmission (0.4 for visible, 0.6 for CO2),

           Ae = antenna efficiency (0.7),

           Ar = antenna aperture area (0.0707 m^2),

           SE = spectrometer efficiency (0.5).



    For a 30-cm diameter (12-inch) visible telescope, and the above

    parameter values (1 GW, 10 m transmitter, EIRP = 2.29 X 10^24 W,

    Ir = 2.04 X 10^-11 W/m^2), the received visible signal:


                        Prv = 2 X 10^-13 W (-127 dBW)


    For a 30-cm diameter (12-inch) CO2 telescope, and the above parameter

    values (1 GW, 10 m transmitter, EIRP = 8.78 X 10^21 W,

    Ir = 7.81 X 10^-14 W/m^2), the received infrared signal:


                        Pri = 1.2 X 10^-15 W (-149 dBW)



    Daylight Background:


    The sky background radiation power detected per pixel, is given by:


    Pb = (PI.THETA^2.Ae.Ar.SE/4).Bo.N(Wl)  W                            (16)


    where  THETA = diffraction limited beamwidth (5.34 X 10^-6 radians),

           Bo    = optical bandpass (0.143 nm),

           N(Wl) = spectral radiance (W/m^2.sr.nm).



    For the incoherent optical systems, the pixel has a diffraction limited

    field-of-view (FOV) corresponding to the Airy disk, i.e., (2.44)Wl/d

    radians, where Wl = wavelength, and d is the aperture diameter.  For

    coherent systems, a smaller FOV is employed; that corresponding to the

    FWHM response, i.e., (1.02)Wl/d radians.  The latter pixel size is

    smaller because of the requirement to reduce the amount of local-


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    oscillator power that does not beat with the signal but only induces

    excess quantum shot-noise.



    At visible wavelengths:


    N(Wl) = 0.01 W/cm^2.sr.micron [71]

          = 0.1 W/m^2.sr.nm

    N(f)  = 1.43 X 10^-13 W/m^2.sr.Hz


    The daytime sky background for a 30 cm (12") telescope at 656 nm (not

    allowing for atmospheric distortion effects) with an optical bandpass

    filter bandwidth Bo = 100 GHz (0.143 nm):


                        Pbv = 7.9 X 10^-15 W (-141 dBW)



    The background is about 14 dB (Prv - Pbv) below the signal from the

    1 GW transmitter which produces an EIRP = 2.29 X 10^24 W, and a flux of

    2.04 X 10^-11 W/m^2 at a range of 10 light years.  Thus, in this small

    photon-counting receiver, the fluctuation noise from the daylight

    background is 14 dB below that of the quantum shot-noise generated by

    the signal.  This has little effect on signal detectability.  If a

    polarizer is employed, Pb can be reduced by a further 3 dB.  For a

    perfect space-based 10 meter diameter visible telescope, the daylight

    spectral density is about 4 X 10^-26 W/Hz (Figure 3, Page 17).



    For infrared systems, the 300 K temperature of the atmosphere produces

    a black body peak at approximately 10,600 nm, with a spectral radiance

    given by:


    N(Wl) = 0.0002 W/cm^2.sr.micron [71]

          = 0.002 W/m^2.sr.nm

    N(f)  = 7.5 X 10^-13 W/m^2.sr.Hz


    The sky background for a cooled 30 cm (12") telescope at 10,600 nm (not

    allowing for atmospheric distortion effects) with a cooled 0.35 percent

    optical bandpass filter bandwidth Bo = 100 GHz (37.5 nm):


                        Pbi = 1.1 X 10^-11 W (-110 dBW)



    For an EIRP = 8.78 X 10^21 W and Ir = 7.81 X 10^-14 W/m^2, the

    potential CO2 SNR is degraded by about 39 dB (Figure 6, Page 38)

    because the background noise is 39 dB -(Pri - Pbi) above the quantum

    shot noise.  The infrared graph of Figure 6 is plotted to the same

    scales as that of the Figure 8 (Page 44) visible graph, to make

    comparisons easier, and the pages may be flicked back and forth to show

    the differences more dramatically.  We can clearly see that the

    effective optical bandwidth must be substantially reduced if ETI signal

    detectability at 10.6 microns is not to be impaired.  Thus, only

    heterodyning receivers, with effective optical bandwidths measured in

    MHz and not GHz, are suitable for CO2 SETI within the atmosphere.


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    Field Of View (FOV):


    The relationship between the solid angle occupied by each star and the

    area of the celestial sphere "occupied" by a typical star is:


              A

    OMEGAs = ---  sr                                                    (17)

             R^2


    where A = area of the celestial sphere, i.e., 4.PI.R^2/N; N being the

              number of stars being considered (10^6).



             4.PI

    OMEGAs = ----  sr                                                   (18)

              N



    Let us assume that sky survey is done out to a distance of 1,000 light

    years.  This means that we are searching the entire celestial sphere

    around the Sun with a radius of 1,000 light years.  This sphere of

    4.PI steradians (sr), contains about 10 million stars of which

    approximately 1 million are solar-type.  Assuming that for a sphere of

    this size, these 1 million stars are distributed fairly uniformly:


                        OMEGAs = 1.26 X 10^-5 steradian


    For small angles, the solid angle FOV OMEGAs and the linear angle FOV

    THETAs, are related by:


             PI.THETAs^2

    OMEGAs = -----------  sr                                            (19)

                  4


                             THETAs = 0.23 degrees



     Array Field Of View:


     Figure 10 shows the typical field-of-view (FOV) for a 10-meter

     diameter telescope.  It has a usable Telescope Field-Of-View of about

     0.33 X 0.33 degrees.  At 656 nm, the diffraction limited FOV for each

     pixel, and based on the Rayleigh criterion (1.22)Wl/d radians, is

     8 X 10^-8 radians (0.0165").  For a 128 X 128 diffraction limited

     two-dimensional array, the array has a linear field-of-view =

     1.02 X 10^-5 radians (2.1").  The corresponding array FOV is:


                               FOV = 2.1" X 2.1"



     Thus, at any instant of time, the average number of stars in the

     2.1" X 2.1" array field-of-view is approximately:


                                  6.4 X 10^-6


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                        ------------------------------ 

                       |                              |

                       |                              |

                       |                              |

                       |     *                        |

                       |                              |

                       |                              |

                       |        2.1 arc seconds       |

                       |            -->o<--           |

                       |           Array FOV          |

                       |                              |

                       |                              |

                       |                              |

                       |                              |

                       |     *   0.23 degrees   *     |

                       |     <------------------>     |

                        ------------------------------


                         Telescope FOV = 0.33 degrees

                       <------------------------------>


    Figure 10 -


    Typical FOVs for a large optical telescope.  The diagram (not to scale)

    illustrates the fact that the optical telescope's array field-of-view

    generally observes empty space; the array itself occupying just a small

    fraction of the telescope's usable (focal plane) field-of-view.



    Number Of Received Beams:


    The number of directions resolved by a telescope (with a maximum off-

    axis loss of 1 dB) is stated in the Cyclops report [5] as being given

    approximately by:


    Nd = 4.G                                                            (20)


    where G = gain.



    For a 10 meter diameter telescope at 656 nm, G = 2.3 X 10^15.  Thus:


                             Nd = 9.2 X 10^15 beams



    An alternative expression has been given [8] where Nd = G.  In this

    paper, for the purposes of roughly estimating the search time for an

    All Sky Survey, Equ. 20 has been used.  Nd has been taken as being

    10^16 beams or directions.







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    The Search Time


    For the Targeted Search, the time to scan a single star with the

    heterodyning array, is given by:


          Inor.Npix.(fu-fl).Td

    Ts = ----------------------  s                                      (21)

         Imin.Nmsca.Bmsca.Bbin


    where  Inor  = normalized flux (8.12 X 10^-16 W/m^2),

           Imin  = minimum detectable flux (8.12 X 10^-16 W/m^2),

           Npix  = number of pixels (16,384 photodetectors),

           Nmsca = number of parallel multi-channel spectrum analyzers

                   (MCSAs), {<= Npix} (1),

           Bmsca = total bandwidth of MCSA (10 GHz),

           Bbin  = minimum MCSA bin bandwidth (100 kHz),

           fu    = upper optical frequency (8.57 X 10^14 Hz),

           fl    = lower optical frequency (4.29 X 10^14 Hz),

           Td    = dead time overhead factor per array scan (1.0).



    The dead time overhead factor is >= 1, and for this estimate, has been

    taken to be unity, i.e., implying zero overhead.  The normalized flux

    is defined as that flux level that causes the normalized CNR (SNR)

    (dB re 1 Hz) to fall to 0 dB.  Note that if the pilot-tone maximal

    ratio predetection combining system described later is employed, the

    number of pixels (Npix) is effectively reduced to unity.  Also, the

    number of receiver beams Nd is assumed relatively constant over the

    band fu-fl.  If we substitute the values given in parentheses into

    Equ. (21), for the visible optical bandwidth between 350 nm and 700 nm,

    and a minimum detectable flux level of about -150 dBW/m^2, we find

    that:


                                 Ts = 2 hours


    The time to do an All Sky Survey of this type is increased by a factor

    (10^16/16,384), so that Ts = 136 million years!  If we wanted to store

    all the data collected, the number of bits would be, to say the least,

    astronomical.  Clearly, we would need to be very selective in the wave-

    lengths scanned. i.e., fu-fl would have to be very small, so that a

    guess of the magic optical frequencies would be mandatory.


    This rough optimistic search time estimate, shows that it would be

    ridiculous to consider a Visible SETI All Sky Survey modelled on the

    one being employed for the Microwave Observing Project (MOP). [40-45]



    Optical Heterodyne Detection:


    In an optical heterodyne receiver (Figure 2, Page 15), the signal

    current I is proportional to the product of the signal electric field

    and the local-oscillator electric field, and a difference or Inter-

    mediate Frequency (I.F.) is produced because the photodetector is a

    square-law device. [71-78,81-82]  Let us see how this heterodyne beat


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    signal is created.  Consider two optical beams mixing on a photodiode

    (square-law detector).  Let the beams be given by:


    Received signal beam electric-field component = Er.cos(wrt+phi),

    Local-oscillator beam electric-field component = Eo.coswot.



    The photodetector current is given by:


    I = k(Er+Eo)^2                                                      (22)


    where k = a constant of proportionality relating the current respon-

              sivity of the photodetector (Ri) to the electric-field.


    I = k[Er.cos(wrt+phi)+Eo.coswot]^2


    I = kEr^2.cos2(wrt+phi)+2kEr.Eo.cos(wrt+phi).coswot+kEo^2.cos2wot


    I =   0.5kEr^2[1+cos2(wrt+phi)]

        + kEr.Eo[cos{(wr-wo)t+phi}]+kEr.Eo[cos{(wr+wo)t+phi)}]

        + 0.5kEo^2[1+cos2wot]



    Rejecting all but the difference frequency term,


    I = kEr.Eo[cos{(wr-wo)t+phi}]                                       (23)


    where (wr-wo)/(2.PI) = fr-fo = Bif, is the difference, beat or

    intermediate frequency.



    Thus, the signal detected is proportional to the product of the

    received signal and local-oscillator electric-fields.  In an optical

    homodyne receiver, wo = wr, and the intermediate frequency is zero.

    The optical mixing efficiency factor H, which is not indicated here

    (Equ. 32 and 33) and accounts for wavefront distortion and beam

    misalignment, is typically somewhat less than 50 percent.



    Pilot-Tone Maximal Ratio Predetection Combining:


    The pilot-tone technique has been previously applied to radio frequency

    diversity receivers to overcome deep fades. [84]  It has also been

    employed by the author on multimode fiber homodyne and heterodyne

    systems with a 4-quadrant photodetector acting as an optical space

    diversity receiver. [81,82]  The spatial incoherence of the radiation

    pattern from a multimode optical fiber is very similar to that of a

    free-space optical beam received by a large telescope within an

    atmosphere.


    The theory behind the terrene pilot-tone method is as follows, and

    makes no specific assumption about modulation techniques employed by

    ETIs, i.e., whether intensity, polarization, frequency or phase

    modulation, analog or digital.  With reference to Figure 1 (Page 10):


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    Let the pilot-tone carrier at fp be given by:


    Ep(t).sin[wpt+dphi]                                                 (24)



    and the modulated information signal at fs be given by:


    Es(t).sin[wst+phi(t)+dphi]                                          (25)


    where  dphi   = phase disturbance caused by the transmitter laser

                    (jitter) or Earth's atmosphere,

           phi(t) = represents possible phase or frequency modulation.



    The phase disturbances dphi, are essentially common to both the signal

    and the pilot-tone, as they are almost identical optical frequencies

    and travel the same optical path.  However, dphi generally differs at

    each photodetector.



                              -------

    sin[(ws-wo)t+phi(t)+dphi]|       |    -----    cos[(ws-wp)t+phi(t)]

    ------------------------>| Mixer |-->| LPF |-------------------------->

        1st I.F (1.1 GHz)    |       |    -----      2nd I.F (100 MHz)

                              -------

                                 ^                        To Summer ------>

                                 |

        sin[(wp-wo)t+dphi]       |

    -----------------------------

         2nd L.O. (1 GHz)


    Figure 11 -


    Maximal Ratio Precombining.  The bandpass-filtered signal from each

    photodetector provides two separately-filtered 1st I.F and 2nd L.O.

    signals to an electronic mixer.  The 2nd I.F. produced after the low-

    pass filter (LPF), has all the laser local-oscillator and atmospheric-

    induced phase noise dphi eliminated.



    The frequencies given in brackets in Figure 11 are arbitrary, and used

    to help clarify the technique.  Each pixel of the 128 X 128 array has

    one of these circuits, whose in-phase outputs are simply added (in a

    summer) and taken to a single MCSA.


    If we heterodyne a local-oscillator laser operating at frequency wo

    with both these signals, we obtain the difference frequency signals or

    1st I.F. from the photodetector proportional to:


    Ep(t).Eo.sin[(wp-wo)t+dphi]                                         (26)


    Es(t).Eo.sin[(ws-wo)t+phi(t)+dphi]                                  (27)


    where dphi now also includes the effects of local-oscillator jitter.


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    The pilot-tone signal as stated by Equ. (26), may be passed through a

    narrow-band filter and amplifier, to produce what is effectively a

    strong electrical second local oscillator (2nd L.O.) signal for an

    electrical mixer.  It may also be used to lock a narrow-band Phase

    Locked Loop (PLL) whose Voltage Controlled Oscillator (VCO) is used as

    the strong, amplitude-stable and clean 2nd local oscillator.  The

    information signal as stated by Equ. (27), may be passed through a

    wideband filter and applied to the other port of this electrical mixer.

    The 2nd I.F. output of the electrical mixer is proportional to:


    Ep(t).Es(t).Eo(t)^2.cos[(ws-wp)t+phi(t)]                            (28)



    The phase disturbances dphi introduced by the atmospheric turbulence

    and laser jitters have been eliminated by the process of electrical

    mixing.  Thus, if the image of the transmitter is instantaneously or

    sequentially smeared out over many pixels, all the second I.F. contri-

    butions are in phase, and may be simply summed to provide predetection

    diversity combining and a substantial reduction in amplitude

    instability (scintillation).


    It also provides the best type of predetection summation in the form of

    Maximal-Ratio Combining.  Although the system appears to implement

    Equal-Gain Combining, the effect of the electronic mixer is to cause

    the weakest signals to be automatically weighted downwards, and hence

    cause Maximal Ratio Combining of the photodetector signals.  Those

    pixels producing the weakest signal also produce the lowest quantum,

    Planckian or background noise contributions to the input of the

    electrical mixer, so that the summed electrical signal power is not

    degraded by noise from pixels with little or no optical signal.  This

    occurs because when no optical signal is present, the noise output of

    each electronic mixer is essentially that due to a noise^2 term, and

    hence is very small.  Only a single MCSA would be required, which would

    be effectively continuously "looking" at the combined outputs of all

    16,384 pixels.  We would have only one MCSA, but 16,384 electronic

    front-end systems for predetection combining of the photodetector

    outputs, based on the mixing technique illustrated in Figure 11.


    A predetection combining system with a single MCSA would not detect

    directly any Planckian starlight noise from a star in the array field-

    of-view alone, only that which overlapped and mixed (downconverted)

    with an ETI signal on one or more pixels.  However, for nearby stars

    where the transmitter and star are separately resolved, we would lose

    any Planckian suppression effect of a (single pixel) diffraction

    limited telescope.  Also, if there are significant interstellar or

    atmospheric group-delay dispersion effects between the signal and

    pilot-tone, the technique would not work.  This consideration may

    affect the choice for the value of (fs-fp) and may itself limit

    modulation bandwidth to be less than a few GHz, notwithstanding SNR

    considerations.  Of course, to use this technique will require the

    cooperation of the ETI.


    Would they be so obliging?  It would be difficult to justify building

    such a receiving signal processing system without foreknowledge that


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    ETIs employ this technique - this could be said to be putting the cart

    before the horse!  Anyway, before implementing such a system, assuming

    ETIs would use such a modulation format, we would have had to

    previously detect this modulation format to know what electrical

    filters to use!



    Radio Frequency Signal-To-Noise Ratio:


    The Carrier-To-Noise Ratio (CNR) in the Microwave Heterodyne [5,8,85]

    100-meter diameter, 1 kW dish system operating at 1.5 GHz over a range

    of 10 light years:


           Pr

    CNR = ----                                                          (29)

          kTBe


    where  Pr  = received power (1.72 X 10^-22 W),

           T   = effective system temperature (10 K),

           Be  = electrical intermediate frequency bandwidth (1 Hz).


                                  CNR = 1 dB


    A symmetrical Cyclops array system [5] with 900 such dishes at both the

    transmitter and receiver would have a CNR = 60 dB.



    Optical Signal-To-Noise Ratio:


    The dimensions of all signal and noise components the following optical

    expressions are in units of amperes^2, and by multiplying by the

    photodetector load impedance, may be turned into units of power.  The

    numerators are representative of the electrical signal power in the

    photodetector load, while the denominators represents the electrical

    noise power in the photodetector load. [71-78]


    For coherent receivers, dual-balanced photodetection is assumed so that

    all the received signal power is utilized, and the noise floor is not

    raised by excess intensity noise on the local-oscillator laser.  It is

    further assumed that the linewidths of the received signal and local-

    oscillator laser are sufficiently small compared to the modulation

    bandwidths, as to not raise the noise floor.


    The effective system noise temperature of an optical receiver may be

    expressed in the form:


            h.f

    Teff = -----  K                                                     (30)

           eta.k


    where  h = Planck's constant (6.63 X 10^-34 J.s),

           f = frequency (4.57 X 10^14 Hz).


                                Teff = 43,900 K


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    Incoherent Signal-To-Noise Ratio:


    Direct Detection and Photon-Counting


                                   Pr^2(MRi)^2

  SNR = --------------------------------------------------------------  (31)

        [2e{Ri(Pr+NbBo)+Ib}M^(2+x)+2eIs+2Nb{Pr+NbBo}(MRi)^2+4kTF/RL]Be


    where  Pr  = received optical power (W),

           Po  = local oscillator power (W),

           M   = avalanche gain,

           eta = photodetector quantum efficiency (0.5),

           Ri  = unity gain responsivity (W/A),

           e   = electronic charge (1.6 X 10^-19 C),

           Nb  = background radiation spectral density (W/Hz),

           Ib  = bulk dark current at unity gain (A),

           Is  = surface dark current (A),

           x   = excess noise factor,

           k   = Boltzmann's constant (1.38 X 10^-23 J/K),

           T   = front-end amplifier temperature (K),

           F   = front-end amplifier noise figure,

           RL  = front-end load (Ohms),

           Bo  = optical pre-detection bandwidth (Hz),

           Be  = noise equivalent electrical bandwidth, which for a single-

                 pole filter = PI/2 x maximum modulation frequency (Hz).



    The electrical signal power is proportional to Pr^2, and the noise

    components proportional:


    1.  To the quantum noise produced by the signal photons.


    2.  To the fluctuation noise produced by the background radiation Pb

        (NbBo).  Notice that this noise is proportional to the optical

        bandwidth, and the ratio of this noise to the quantum noise

        component is inversely proportional to the received optical power.


    3.  To the shot noise produced by the bulk dark current in the photo-

        detector.


    4.  To the shot noise produced by the surface leakage dark current.


    5.  To the background radiation beating with the signal, which is

        independent of optical bandwidth.  The noise spectral density is

        the important factor here.


    6.  To the noise beating with noise, which is proportional to both the

        noise spectral density squared and the optical bandwidth.  The

        latter two noise components are insignificant and may be safely

        omitted for this application where the background is very small.


    7.  To the thermal kT noise in the photodetector load and front-end

        amplifier, and may be neglected for shot noise limited direct

        detection receivers, and ideal photon-counting receivers.


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    The total noise produced is proportional to the electrical post-

    detection bandwidth Be.  To an approximation at high avalanche gain,

    the surface dark current component Is, which is not subject to gain, 

    is sometimes ignored, and Ib is called Id.



    Coherent Signal-To-Noise Ratio:


    Heterodyne Detection (Reception)


                                  HPrPo(MRi)^2

 CNR = ---------------------------------------------------------------- (32)

       [e{Ri(Pr+Po+NbBo)+Ib}M^(2+x)+eIs+2Nb{HPo+NbBo}(MRi)^2+2kTF/RL]Be



    Homodyne Detection


                                  2HPrPo(MRi)^2

 CNR = ---------------------------------------------------------------- (33)

       [e{Ri(Pr+Po+NbBo)+Ib}M^(2+x)+eIs+2Nb{HPo+NbBo}(MRi)^2+2kTF/RL]Be



    The electrical signal power is proportional to Pr and the optical

    mixing efficiency H, and the noise components proportional:


    1.  To the quantum noise produced by the signal photons.


    2.  To the shot noise produced by the local oscillator.


    3.  To the fluctuation noise produced by the background radiation Pb

        (NbBo).  This noise is also proportional to the optical bandwidth

        and its ratio to the quantum shot noise is effectively inversely

        proportional to the local oscillator power Po.


    4.  To the shot noise produced by the bulk dark current in the photo-

        detector.


    5.  To the shot noise produced by the surface leakage dark current.


    6.  To the background radiation beating with the local oscillator,

        which is very small, the noise being proportional to the noise

        spectral density and independent of optical bandwidth.


    7.  To the background noise spectral density squared, which is again

        very small, the noise being proportional to the optical bandwidth.


    8.  To the thermal kT noise of the optical front-end, which like the

        case for all other noise components except that due to the local-

        oscillator quantum shot-noise, is negligible for sufficient local-

        oscillator power.


    The local-oscillator (L.O.) is assumed to have negligible excess

    intensity noise or it is balanced out, so that the Relative Intensity

    Noise (RIN) is at the theoretical quantum noise level.


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    Note, the excess noise due to a non-Poisson distribution of arriving

    photons in a power-starved situation, is not included in this expres-

    sion.  Poisson statistics imply that sufficient photons arrive during

    the observation time to take the probability of the arrival of a photon

    as being given by a binomial distribution. [83]  In situations where

    the optical receiver is power-starved, i.e., when there are relatively

    few photons arriving during the signal integration time so that Bose-

    Einstein [73] statistics apply, the non-white noise associated with

    statistics of the photon arrival times will lower the effective CNR.


    The total noise produced is again proportional to the electrical post-

    optical detection bandwidth Be.  Usually Po >> Pr and Pb, and thus

    other multiplicative noise components relating to Pr and Pb are not

    included in these expressions, since they are negligible.  For this

    application the nearest star is several light years away, Po is much

    larger the background Pb, and the latter component is also negligible

    for all optical bandwidths, unlike the case for incoherent detection.

    This is also generally true for large diffraction limited telescopes

    operating in daylight.  For SETI to be practical, the EIRP needs to be

    extremely high, but since the star is distant, the background Nb is

    very small.  However, for communications within the solar system, these

    background noise components (from the Sun or reflected light from Earth

    or another planet) can be significant. [94-95]


    For the Amateur Optical SETI analysis, a more conservative approach for

    assessing the performance of various receiving systems has been

    employed.  Account has been made for the efficiencies of atmospheric

    transmission, telescope aperture, monochromator (incoherent systems

    only) and in the case of coherent receivers, an allowance for the

    optical (heterodyne or homodyne) mixing efficiency.


    Expression (31) relates to incoherent detection, while (32) and (33)

    relate to coherent detection.  The ideal shot-noise limited direct

    detection receiver approaches the performance of the photon-counting

    receiver at higher received powers.  For substantially cooled photon-

    counting receivers, the dark currents Is and Ib may be taken as zero,

    and thermal noise is insignificant.  In the quantum noise limit, the

    CNR of the homodyne system is 3 dB more than the heterodyne, which is

    itself 3 dB more than the direct detection or photon-counting receiver.



    Quantum-Noise Limited Signal-To-Noise Ratio:


    The Carrier-To-Noise Ratio in a perfect quantum noise limited (656 nm)

    optical heterodyne system where the L.O. has negligible intensity and

    phase noise, and where the shot noise from the L.O. swamps all other

    sources of noise, is given by:


          eta.Pr

    CNR = ------                                                        (34)

          hfBif


    where  Pr  = received optical power (1.6 nW),

           Bif = Intermediate Frequency bandwidth (30 MHz).


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    One of the major advantages of using the normalized CNR approach is

    that we can express the CNR for the perfect diffraction-limited

    ten meter diameter symmetrical heterodyne system, for any transmitter

    power, range and electrical bandwidth, in the form:


     ------------------------------------------------------

    |                                                      |

    |  CNR = 54 + 10.log(Pt) - 20.log(R) - 10.log(Be)  dB  |            (35)

    |                                                      |

     ------------------------------------------------------


    where  Pt = transmitter power (kW),

           R  = range (L.Y.),

           Be = I.F. bandwidth (Hz).



    For Pt = 1 GW, R = 10 L.Y., and Be = Bif = 30 MHz:


                                  CNR = 19 dB



    Again, it should be remembered that this relationship (Equ. 35) only

    holds out to distances where interstellar attenuation is insignificant,

    and will over-estimate the CNR at very low received optical powers (Pr)

    and/or higher bandwidths (Be).  For a huge transmitting array, the

    Rayleigh near-field range may be so large (Equ. 7), that the 20.log(R)

    term disappears from the above expression, and the 54 dB constant has

    a higher value.


    We see that one advantage of coherent detection for this application is

    that the effective bandwidth determining the relative level of detected

    background noise is the electrical bandwidth Be, not the optical

    bandwidth Bo.  Since Be can be much less than Bo, coherent receivers

    have a considerable sensitivity advantage over incoherent receivers in

    the presence of weak signals and/or significant background radiation,

    besides being able to allow for the demodulation of phase or frequency-

    modulated signals.  In the case of the heterodyne receiver, Be

    corresponds to the I.F. bandwidth, and the signal has still to be

    demodulated.  A further stage of "detection", either square-law or

    synchronous, must be applied to demodulate the intelligence on the

    signal.  For this reason, the signal-to-noise ratio for the radio

    frequency heterodyne and optical heterodyne systems is denoted as CNR

    and not SNR.



    Signal Integration:


    In practically all SETI systems, what is being looked for is an ETI

    beacon.  In such systems, the sensitivity of the receiver is enhanced

    by post-detection signal integration, perhaps over many seconds.  This

    increases the detected signal level, and reduces the noise level; both

    at the expense of increasing the search time.  This can only be done

    for detecting the presence of a signal beacon, not for the demodulation

    of a continuously and rapidly changing non-repetitive signal.


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    In the case of a microwave or optical receiver with square law

    detection and an input SNR less than unity, the Signal-To-Noise Ratio

    can be increased by (post-detection) integration of a number of

    detected pulses over a period of time.  In such a situation, the SNR is

    proportional to the square-root of (Nc), where Nc is the total pulse

    count during the observation integration time. [83,88]  The same

    relationship applies to the post-detection counting of individual

    photons, but not to pre-detection.  That is why the quantum limited

    CNRs (SNRs) for both incoherent and coherent optical detection systems

    are proportional to the photon count rate.  See Equ. 36 below.



    Photon-Count Rate:


    The equivalent photon-count rate for the heterodyne receiver is given

    by:


          eta.Pr

    Nph = ------  s^-1                                                  (36)

            hf



    Alternatively, this can be expressed as CNR.(Bif).  For the 1 GW

    transmitter that results in a CNR = 19 dB re 30 MHz:


                            Nph = 2.64 X 10^9 s^-1



    This count rate is more than adequate for the photon arrival (and

    detection) statistics to be taken as Gaussian (Poisson), and hence the

    CNR expressions should give an accurate figure for the Carrier-To-Noise

    Ratio.  This is reasonably true even for the 1 kW transmitter, where

    on average, only 5,280 photons arrive per second, of which on average,

    2,640 photons are detected every second.  However, the method of

    expressing CNRs in this analysis, even in the power-starved case,

    allows for a simple linear extrapolation for CNR at any received

    optical power (Equ. 35).



    Bit Error Rate (BER):


    This analysis has concentrated on optical signal detectability in terms

    of SNR not Bit Error Rate (BER), as would be applicable for a digital

    system.  For the sake of completeness, the following expression may be

    used to predict the photon-count rate for a required BER: [78]


        -ln(2.BER)

    m = ----------                                                      (37)

          log N

             2


    where m = average number of photons per bit required by an ideal N-PPM

              (pulse position modulation) system to achieve a given BER.



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    The photon-count rate is simply the product of m and the bit rate.  For

    an ideal coherent system with on-off keying (OOK) or 1-PPM,

    BER = 10^-9, and very small extinction (light off/light on) ratio,

    m = 10 photons/bit.  However, a more realistic value is nearer to

    20 photons/bit.  Thus, for a 1 GHz (approx. 1 GBit/s) channel:


                  Minimum Photon-Count Rate = 2 X 10^10 s^-1



    The modelled 1 GW system is a little deficient in being able to achieve

    this goal, since this required count rate is an order of magnitude

    greater than the calculated value of Nph.  With digital compression

    techniques, the 1 GW transmitter is capable of supporting a late

    Twentieth Century digital HDTV signal, compressed into a 10 MHz

    bandwidth. [87]



    Range Equation:


    Instead of expressing the CNR as a function of transmitter power,

    range and bandwidth, we can express the quality of the optical

    communications link in terms of its maximum range.  As before, if we

    ignore interstellar absorption, the range (in light years) required to

    reduce the quantum limited CNR to 0 dB for the "perfect" 10-meter

    diameter 656 nm symmetrical Professional Optical SETI system defined by

    Equ. 35, can be express in the form:


    Rmax = 10^[{54 + 10.log(Pt) - 10.log(Be)}/20]                       (38)


    where  Pt = transmitter power (kW),

           Be = I.F. bandwidth (Hz).



    For Pt = 1 GW (EIRP = 2.29 X 10^24 W) and Be = 1 MHz:


                                Rmax = 500 L.Y.



    Doppler Shift:


    The maximum Doppler Shift is given by:


         v

    df = -.f  Hz                                                        (39)

         c


    where  v = maximum line-of-sight velocity (29.8 km/s),

           c = velocity of light (3 X 10^8 m/s),

           f = frequency (4.57 X 10^14 Hz).







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    For a ground-based receiving telescope, the maximum local Doppler Shift

    at 656 nm due to the orbit of Earth around the Sun:


                               df = +/- 45.5 GHz



    Doppler Drift:


    The maximum Doppler Drift (Chirp) is given by:


          w^2.r

    df' = -----.f  Hz/s                                                 (40)

            c


    where  w = angular velocity (7.27 X 10^-5 rad/s),

           r = radius of planet or orbit (6,378 km).



    For a receiving telescope on the equator, the maximum local Doppler

    Drift at 656 nm due to Earth's rotation is:


                              df' = +/- 51 kHz/s



    Fortunately, for Amateur Optical SETI observations, the Doppler Drift

    during reasonable observations times is insignificant with respect to

    the bandpass of the incoherent optical filter (approximately 100 GHz).





























    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 94


                                  APPENDIX B


                              THE SETI PROTOCOLS


    The following information was provided by Robert Arnold of the SETI

    Institute.



                                          November 20, 1991


    Dear Colleague,


    It is my pleasure to send you a copy of a document entitled

    "Declaration of Principles Concerning Activities Following the

    Detection of Extraterrestrial Intelligence."


    The Declaration was developed over a period of several years by the

    SETI Committee of the International Academy of Astronautics, with the

    assistance of many experts interested in this question.  In April of

    1989 it was approved by the Board of Trustees of the Academy, and also

    by the Board of Directors of the International Institute of Space Law.

    Over the last two years it has been endorsed by the Committee on Space

    Research, by Commission 51 of the International Astronomical Union, by

    the members of Commission J of the Union Radio Scientifique

    Internationale, and by the International Astronautical Federation.


    The document is intended as a series of guidelines for individuals or

    organizations, national or international, engaged in carrying out radio

    searches for extraterrestrial intelligence.  In the near future it will

    be sent by the Academy to all such individuals and organizations with a

    request that they give consideration to endorsing it.


    In the meantime, the SETI Committee of the International Academy of

    Astronautics will continue to review the principles and procedures of

    the Declaration, and will assemble a special post-detection committee,

    as indicated in Principle 9 of the document.  The Committee is also

    working on a second declaration, designed to expand the wording of

    Principle 8 into a process for obtaining international agreement on

    questions about a reply from Earth after the detection of a signal.


    Sincerely,




    John Billingham

    Chief, SETI Office


    Enclosure:








    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 95


    Declaration of Principles Concerning Activities Following the Detection

    of Extraterrestrial Intelligence -



    We, the institutions and individuals participating in the search for

    extraterrestrial intelligence,


    Recognizing that the search for extraterrestrial intelligence is an

    integral part of space exploration and is being undertaken for peaceful

    purposes and for the common interest of all mankind,


    Inspired by the profound significance for mankind of detecting evidence

    of extraterrestrial intelligence, even though the probability of

    detection may be low,


    Recalling the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States

    in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other

    Celestial Bodies, which commits States Parties to that Treaty "to

    inform the Secretary General of the United Nations as well as the

    public and the international scientific community, to the greatest

    extent feasible and practicable, of the, nature, conduct, locations and

    results" of their space exploration activities (Article XI),


    Recognizing that any initial detection may be incomplete or ambiguous

    and thus require careful examination as well as confirmation, and that

    it is essential to maintain the highest standards of scientific

    responsibility and credibility,


    Agree to observe the following principles for disseminating information

    about the detection of extraterrestrial intelligence:


    1.  Any individual, public or private research institution, or

        governmental agency that believes it has detected a signal from or

        other evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence (the discoverer)

        should seek to verify that the most plausible explanation for the

        evidence is the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence rather

        than some other natural phenomenon or anthropogenic phenomenon

        before making any public announcement.  If the evidence cannot be

        confirmed as indicating the existence of extraterrestrial

        intelligence, the discoverer may disseminate the information as

        appropriate to the discovery of any unknown phenomenon.


    2.  Prior to making a public announcement that evidence of extra-

        terrestrial intelligence has been detected, the discoverer should

        promptly inform all other observers or research organizations that

        are parties to this declaration, so that those other parties may

        seek to confirm the discovery by independent observations at other

        sites and so that a network can be established to enable continuous

        monitoring of the signal or phenomenon.  Parties to this

        declaration should not make any public announcement of this

        information until it is determined whether this information is or

        is not credible evidence of the existence of extraterrestrial

        intelligence.  The discoverer should inform his/her or its relevant

        national authorities.


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 96


    3.  After concluding that the discovery appears to be credible evidence

        of extraterrestrial intelligence, and after informing other parties

        to this declaration, the discoverer should inform observers

        throughout the world through the Central Bureau for Astronomical

        Telegrams of the International Astronomical Union, and should

        inform the Secretary General of the United Nations in accordance

        with Article XI of the Treaty on Principles Governing the

        Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space,

        Including the Moon and Other Bodies.  Because of their demonstrated

        interest in and expertise concerning the question of the existence

        of extraterrestrial intelligence, the discoverer should

        simultaneously inform the following international institutions of

        the discovery and should provide them with all pertinent data and

        recorded information concerning the evidence:  the International

        Telecommunication Union, the Committee on Space Research, of the

        International Council of Scientific Unions, the International

        Astronautical Federation, the International Academy of

        Astronautics, the International Institute of Space Law, Commission

        51 of the International Astronomical Union and Commission J of the

        International Radio Science Union.


    4.  A confirmed detection of extraterrestrial intelligence should be

        disseminated promptly, openly, and widely through scientific

        channels and public media, observing the procedures in this

        declaration.  The discoverer should have the privilege of making

        the first public announcement.


    5.  All data necessary for confirmation of detection should be made

        available to the international scientific community through

        publications, meetings, conferences, and other appropriate means.


    6.  The discovery should be confirmed and monitored and any data

        bearing on the evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence should be

        recorded and stored permanently to the greatest extent feasible and

        practicable, in a form that will make it available for further

        analysis and interpretation.  These recordings should be made

        available to the international institutions listed above and to

        members of the scientific community for further objective analysis

        and interpretation.


    7.  If the evidence of detection is in the form of electromagnetic

        signals, the parties to this declaration should seek international

        agreement to protect the appropriate frequencies by exercising

        procedures available through the International Telecommunication

        Union.  Immediate notice should be sent to the Secretary General of

        the ITU in Geneva, who may include a request to minimize trans-

        missions on the relevant frequencies in the Weekly Circular.  The

        Secretariat, in conjunction with advice of the Union's Admini-

        strative Council, should explore the feasibility and utility of

        convening an Extraordinary Administrative Radio Conference to deal

        with the matter, subject to the opinions of the member Admini-

        strations of the ITU.




    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 97


    8.  No response to a signal or other evidence of extraterrestrial

        intelligence should be sent until appropriate international

        consultations have taken place.  The procedures for such

        consultations will be the subject of a separate agreement,

        declaration or arrangement.


    9.  The SETI Committee of the International Academy of Astronautics, in

        coordination with Commission 51 of the International Astronomical

        Union, will conduct a continuing review of procedures for the

        detection of extraterrestrial intelligence and the subsequent

        handling of the data.  Should credible evidence of extraterrestrial

        intelligence be discovered, an international committee of

        scientists and other experts should be established to serve as a

        focal point for continuing analysis of all observational evidence

        collected in the aftermath of the discovery, and also to provide

        advice on the release of information to the public.  This committee

        should be constituted from representatives of each of the

        international institutions listed above and such other members as

        the committee may deem necessary.  To facilitate the convocation of

        such a committee at some unknown time in the future, the SETI

        Committee of the International Academy of Astronautics should

        initiate and maintain a current list of willing representatives

        from each of the international institutions listed above, as well

        as other individuals with relevant skills, and should make that

        list continuously available through the Secretariat of the

        International Academy of Astronautics.  The International Academy

        of Astronautics will act as the Depository for this declaration and

        will annually provide a current list of parties to all the parties

        to this declaration.



























    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 98


                                    INDEX



A  Adaptive                               17,20,24,39,43,52,58

   Airy Disk                              47,78

   All Sky Survey                         4,31,33-34,82-83

   Alpha Centauri                         54

   Amateur Optical SETI                   5-6,8,16,25,37,42,45-48,51-52,54,

                                          60-61,90,92

   Ames Research Center (ARC)             3,11,19

   Arecibo                                11,16,20,27-28,36

   Asimov, Isaac                          25

   Assumption of Ineptitude               13,58

   Assumption of Mediocrity               13

   Avalanche Photodetector (APD)          7,42,44,48-50


B  Beacon                                 10,28,39,52,55,90

   BETA                                   4

   Betz, Albert                           5,7,9,13,20,35-37,55,61,78

   Big Ear Radio Observatory              7,40

   Billingham, John                       5,94

   Bit Error Rate (BER)                   41,91

   Bose-Einstein                          89

   Bova, Ben                              3

   Bulletin Board System (BBS)            6


C  Carbon Dioxide Laser (CO2)             5,13,20,29,35-38,55,61,78-79

   Carrier-To-Noise Ratio (CNR)           15-17,24,26-28,33-34,36,41,43,50,

                                          82,86,88-91

   Challenger                             59

   Charge Coupled Device (CCD)            42,46-51

   Clarke, Arthur C.                      8,41,57-58

   Cold Fusion                            2

   Columbus Telescope                     40

   Coherence Cell                         11,18

   Coherent                               14-15,18,20,26,37,40,42,46,49,

                                          60-61,78,86,88-91

   Contact                                1-3,27,40,56-57,63

   Cosmic Catastrophes                    57

   Cosmic Haystack                        4,32,43

   Cosmic Zoo                             2,62

   Cullers, Kent                          3,8,54

   Cyclops                                7,18,19-20,23,26-27,54,58,81,86


D  Dark Current                           38,46,49,87-89

   Daylight (Optical SETI)                20,26,36,42-43,45-47,54,58,79,89

   Deep Space Network (DSN)               11

   Directivity                            36,75

   Direct Detection                       18,25,36-37,40,42-46,51,60-61,78,

                                          87,89-90

   Discovery                              58

   Dixon, Robert                          4,7,40

   Doppler Drift (Chirp)                  11,14,16,22,24,32-33,46,56,93

   Doppler Shift                          11,22,24,32,35,46,56,92-93


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                     Page 99


   Drake Equation                         71

   Drake, Frank                           3,9,71


E  Effective Noise Temperature            15,86

   EIRP                                   17,19,21-22,28,37-38,41,43-46,60,

                                          72,77-79

   Epsilon Eradani                        54


F  Fabry-Perot                            45

   Fast Fourier Transform (FFT)           4,34,48

   Fermi's Paradox                        1

   Field-Of-View (FOV)                    31,36-37,47,56,78,80-81,85

   Fraunhofer                             4,17,23,25-26,30-31,34-35,43,46,

                                          59,73

   Free Electron Laser                    21,29


G  Gaussian Beams                         73-75


H  Heliographs                            9

   Heterodyne                             4,14-18,20,22-23,25,35,37,42,45,

                                          49-50,56,82-84,86,88-91

   Homodyne                               14,49,83,88-89

   Horowitz, Paul                         4

   Hubble Space Telescope (HST)           13,20


I  Image Intensifier                      42,46

   Incoherent Detection                   18,25,36-37,40,42-46,51,60-61,78,

                                          87,89-90

   Interferometer                         5,8,37,40,55


J  Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL)        11


K  Karhunen-Loeve Transform (KLT)         4,60

   Kraus, John                            40


L  Light Pollution                        26,60

   Local-Oscillator (L.O.)                5,11,14-15,20,29,31,33-34,37,44,

                                          48,56,79,82-88


M  Magic Wavelength (or Frequency)        3,9,20,26,29,45,57,82

   Magnitude (Intensity)                  21-24,28,41,43-46,53-54,72

   Microchannel Plate                     46

   Microwave Observing Project (MOP)      4-5,8,13,31,40,52-54,57-59,82

   Monochromator                          42,45,47-48,50-51,54,60,89

   Morrison, Philip                       3,7,9,13

   MultiChannel Spect. Analy. (MCSA)      14,33-36,52,82,84-85


N  NASA                                   3-5,7,9,11,19,27,35,38,45,58,

                                          61-62

   Neodymium YAG Laser (Nd:YAG)           18,21,27,29

   Noise Equivalent Bandwidth             87


O  Oliver, Bernard                        3,7,9,21,31

   Optoelectronics                        19


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992

                                                                    Page 100


P  Perkins Telescope                      40,46

   Photomultiplier (PM)                   42,48-50

   Photon-Counting                        16,18,37,42,44-46,49,51,60,79,

                                          87,89

   Photon Count Rate                      91

   Photonics                              19,62

   Pilot-Tone                             10-11,20,39,82-85

   Planckian                              17,20,22-23,25-28,39,42-44,46,49,

                                          56,73,76,85

   Planetary Report                       4

   Poisson Counting                       15-16,89,91

   Polar Response                         75-76

   Prime Directive                        56

   Professional Optical SETI              4,8,14,16,40,46,59-61

   Project Ozma                           9,54


Q  Quantum (Shot) Noise                   14-17,25-26,28,37,43,79,85,87-89


R  Range Equation                         92

   Rather, John                           7,9,21,75

   Rayleigh Range                         24,74-75,90

   Rayleigh Resolution                    80

   Rayleigh Scattering                    39,59

   Rosetta Stone                          10


S  Sagan, Carl                            3

   Semaphores                             9

   Serendip                               22,26,39-40,59

   SETI Institute                         3,5,7,12,31,54,58,62,71

   SETI Protocols                         63,94

   Signal-To-Noise Ratio (SNR)            6,11,16,20-26,34,36-38,43-46,48,

                                          49,59,79,85,86-91

   Space Odyssey (2001 and 2010)          58

   Spectrometer                           36,38,44-45,47,49,51,55,78

   Spielberg, Steven                      4

   Star Trek                              62

   Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)     14

   Symbiotic                              22,26,39-40,59


T  Targeted Search                        11-12,31,33-34,46,52-54,82

   Tarter, Jill                           8,25,54,61

   Tau Ceti                               54

   Thermal Noise                          14,87-89

   Tipler, Frank                          1,56-57

   Townes, Charles                        5,7,9,13,20,35-37,55,61,63

   Type I, II, and III Civilizations      2-3


U  Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs)     1-2,63


V  Von Neumann                            1-2,32,56


W  Waterhole                              3,32


Z  Zuckerman, Ben                         9,20


    EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992




                                  ADDENDUM 1



>From Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley, the author of the six-part EJASA article

(Volume 3, Number 6, January 1992) on Optical SETI.


The Optical SETI article was placed on the network on Monday, January 27,

1992, and posted to the newsgroups; sci.space, sci.astro, sci.space.news,

sci.misc and rec.arts.sf.science.  For those who use a keyword search of the

subject headers and may not have realized that the EJASA article was devoted

to Optical SETI, the list below gives the message numbers for the posting on

sci.space and sci.astro.


FILE NAME                                                 MESSAGE NUMBERS

                                                        SCI.SPACE  SCI.ASTRO

READ.ME        Details about printing out the article   30085      16040

EJASAV3.N6A    EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part A        30088      16041

EJASAV3.N6B    EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part B        30090      16042

EJASAV3.N6C    EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part C        30099      16045

EJASAV3.N6D    EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part D        30101      16046

EJASAV3.N6E    EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part E        30105      16049

EJASAV3.N6F    EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part F        30110      16051



Readers should note that a couple of years ago, a technique was described in

the scientific literature of how to improved on the diffraction-limited

performance of (relatively small) optical telescopes, so that for

transmitters, the far-field inverse square law doesn't apply.  The very idea

of transmitting beams smaller than the life zones of nearby star systems is

a major hurdle in itself to the general acceptance of the efficacy of

Optical SETI.  Thus, the discussion of this Bessel technique was purposely

avoided in the EJASA paper, but will likely be described at a later date.


By a strange coincidence, on the day following this posting (Tuesday,

January 28, 1992), what should come through my mailbox but the Newsletter of

SPIE's (Society of Photo-Optical Instrumentation Engineers) International

Technical Working Group on Laser Communications (ILCS).  The January 1992

issue was devoted to a profile and interview with a Dr. Monte Ross, with

some discussion given to Optical SETI.  He used to work for McDonnell

Douglas and is now President of Laser Data Technology, Inc., which is

located in St. Louis, Missouri.


I have since had a phone conversation with Dr. Ross, who is the author of

one of the first optoelectronics books published in the 1960's.  Unlike

Dr. Bernard Oliver of NASA's SETI Office, who also wrote some of the first

papers on optoelectronics back in the early 1960's on his own and in

conjunction with Professor Charles Townes, and did not agree with the

Optical SETI ideas of the latter, Dr. Ross is a strong believer in the

efficacy of lasers for interstellar communications.  I often consulted

Dr. Ross's book (from the library at University College London) while doing

my Ph.D. research in the early 1970's.  In those days, the information I

needed for my work on the first single-mode fiber-optic Mach-Zehnder

heterodyning interferometer (fiber-optic data highway) was based on prior

work done with free-space optical heterodyning communication systems.  The

Mach-Zehnder work paved the way for pioneering work by University College

London on fiber-optic sensing.  It is perhaps slightly ironic that the wheel

may be turning full circle for me in that my professional activities are

returning to free-space optical communications.


Dr. Ross conjectures the use of pulsed transmissions by ETIs, perhaps of

about 1 ns duration, to get the high peak EIRP's required to allow

incoherent light-bucket photon-counters to be employed.  The SPIE article

ends by remarking that Dr. Ross would like to see some engineering society

or foundation put together a study to define a specific plan and program.  I

concur with that thought, though I believe that the EJASA article already

accomplishes some of this.  I would like to see an Optical SETI Foundation

set up, and am working to achieve this end.  The EJASA article was just one

of many actions on my part required to establish a sufficiently large

constituency to make this goal achievable.  The setting up of a computer

bulletin board system (BBS) devoted to Optical SETI was another.  I intend

to make a major contribution to forming The Optical SETI Institute (TOSI),

or whatever it is eventually called, which would operate either as part of

the SETI Institute or as a separate entity.  I would like to hear from

anyone who could offer expertise in areas related to Optical SETI, either

from a technical viewpoint or for getting such a foundation up and running.


Dr. Ross is sending me copies of his papers on Optical SETI that were

published in the 1980's, some of which I gather were published in the

British Journal of Interplanetary Science (?).  After I have received copies

of Dr. Ross's papers, I will issue ADDENDUM.2 containing the citations for

these references, and some brief comments.  I did not conduct an extensive

independent literature review for all papers relating to Optical SETI,

because it was thought that between my contacts with the few people actively

involved in this field and particularly with the SETI Institute, I would

have picked up all relevant material.


This just goes to demonstrate how compartmentalized are the fields of

science.  During out phone conversation, Monte Ross informed me that he had

no contact with the SETI Institute and NASA, and preferred to work outside

established SETI channels.  I have chosen to work within existing SETI

organizations to try and establish a constituency for Optical SETI.  Indeed,

since the network postings of the EJASA article last week, I have been

mailing floppy disks with the article to selected scientists, engineers and

politicians in the United States and the United Kingdom.


So often, we find that radio astronomers don't talk to optical astronomers

who don't talk to communication engineers.  Scientists and engineers have a

tendency to search and read only the literature in the main-stream of their

own professional activities (these days a difficult and time-consuming task

by itself).  It is when engineers and scientist step outside their normal

areas of specialty and consider the application of their technology to other

branches of science, that the "connection" is made that often leads to the

development of an exciting new endeavor.  If professional optical

astronomers have been negligent in not seeing the potential for Optical SETI

and have allowed microwave communication scientists/engineers to dominate

SETI, it probably is because the former are more concerned with wide optical

bandwidths and integrating detected photons, while Optical SETI communi-

cation scientists/engineers would be more concerned with very narrow optical

bandwidths (compared to that of the visible and infrared spectrum) and

wideband modulation (compared to normal radio frequency modulation

bandwidths).


This has taught me the dangers of assuming that the "experts" know all about

what is going on in the world in their particular field.  The moral of the

story is "Don't leave literature searches to others"!  It is less likely

that I have missed any extensive Optical SETI observations that were not

reported in the EJASA.  Somehow I don't think that the SETI Institute would

have missed out on that one!  But on the other hand . . .  If you know of

anyone conducting professional/semi-professional or amateur Optical SETI

observations not mentioned in the EJASA article or people who have written

theoretical papers on the subject, please let me know.


Presently, I have 127 registered users on my BBS, though only a fraction of

them have registered because of their specific interest in Optical SETI. 

Saturday (yesterday) was a quiet day.  Since the early hours of this Sunday

morning (it is now 9.45 am), I have obtained four new users, the majority

from out of state.  Clearly, the message has gotten out over the network,

and some people have been busy printing out and digesting the EJASA article

over this weekend.


>From time to time I will issue further Optical SETI addendums to keep

readers up to date on progress in this field.  Keep an eye on newsgroups

sci.space and sci.astro for these postings.



February 2, 1992

File: ADDENDUM.001



 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 * Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley                                                  *

 * Consultant                                                              *

 * AMIEE, SMIEEE,                                                          *

 * The Planetary Society,                                                  *

 * Space Studies Institute,                                                *

 * Columbus Astronomical Society,                                          *

 * Volunteer, SETI Group, Ohio State.                                      *

 *                                                                         *

 *                                    "Where No Photon Has Gone Before &   *

 *                                   The Impossible Takes A Little Longer" *

 *                                                 __________              *

 * FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS                      /          \             *

 * 545 Northview Drive                        ---   hf >> kT   ---         *

 * Columbus, Ohio 43209                           \__________/             *

 * United States                                                           *

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 * Manual Fax Tone Access Code: 33        .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .     *

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 * 300/1200/2400/4800/9600 Baud, MNP, 8N1.                                 *

 * Email: skingsle@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu                               *

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----- End Included Message -----

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb

From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Catalog of Humanoid Reports

Message-ID: <9202142309.AA28342@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Date: 14 Feb 92 23:09:15 GMT

Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU

Lines: 329


My apologies if this has been here before.  I wouldn't know as I can not

receive this newsgrope (no sp error here ;^})!


Len





--- Begin included text ------------------------------------------------





Message #7291 - MUFONET 

   Date : 02-Sep-91 23:35

   From : Jacques Poulet

     To : All

Subject : Just a theory! 1 of 4


                        Aliens are gods?

 

          Many people seems to beleive our visitors are Gods! By 

definition, to be god-like entities, they'd need to be flawless, 

omniscient, perfect. But if we base our belief in those visitors 

solely on reports from other witnesses, maybe we should also take 

a look at their superior qualities as shown in those same 

reports.

 

          Here are 7 cases which I selected to demonstrate my 

point (all emphasis are mine):

 

CASE 1

Source:   A CATALOG OF HUMANOID REPORTS FOR 1974 by Ted Bloecher, 

          MUFON 1975 UFO Symposium Proceedings.

 

          Observer, a nurse's aid, was walking from one hospital 

     building to another when she saw a disc descending; four 

     legs emerged and the object landed atop the roof. A ramp, or 

     ladder, emerged ...  ... One being turned and saw the 

     witness watching; the three then re-entered the object, 

     which took off ... 

 

CASE 2

Source:   A CATALOG OF HUMANOID REPORTS FOR 1974 by Ted Bloecher, 

          MUFON 1975 UFO Symposium Proceedings.

 

          Truckdriver observed blinding white light on the road; 

     at 200 m. his lights and Diesel motor went out. ... Two 6 ft 

     beings appeared ... They looked at the witness, gestured to 

     each other, and one pointed at him; the two then disappeared 

     around the right side of the UFO, which rose...

 

The next day:

 

          Truck lights and motor killed, as before. ...four men 

     now appeared and approached, at which the driver got out of 

     truck and fled. They followed, gaining.  After running some 

     distance, he jumped into drainage ditch and hid; the four 

     searched area but did not find him. ... he returned on foot 

     and saw, from distance of 8-9 m., the men digging at 

     roadside ...

 

---

 * Origin: Scotian Gold {Mufonet) Mutual Unidentified Flying Ojects Net

(1:167/





Message #7292 - MUFONET 

   Date : 02-Sep-91 23:36

   From : Jacques Poulet

     To : All

Subject : Just a theory! 2 of 4


 

CASE 3

Source:   Contact 158 by Frangois Bourbeau, 200 pages, Louise 

          Courteau Editor, ISBN 2-89239-013-3

 

     This is a transcript of an hypnosis session with M. X. This 

men had been abducted with his car. At this point, he's about to 

leave the craft:

 

Yvon      Now, tell me how you got out?

 

X         I've been told to sit in the car and to touch nothing. 

     There will be a count down from ten to one and at that time, 

     I must start the engine! A door will open and I should find 

     myself on the same road where they pick me up.

 

Yvon      Where are you now?

 

X         I just got in the car...

 

Yvon      Where are you going?

 

X         Outside... home...

 

Yvon      What's happening?

 

X         The count down has started... get ready... (silence for 

     three seconds)... THERE... What the hell is happening?

          (M. X shout that sentence, he seems excited). Oh!... 

     Boy a boy a boy!...

 

Yvon      What happened?

 

X         I hitted a road pannel, on the side of the road...

 

Yvon      Where are you, precisely?

 

X         On the road, I am ...

 

Yvon      What's happening?

 

X         I've been informed that there has been a technical 

     error. They say they'll come back...

 

---

 * Origin: Scotian Gold {Mufonet) Mutual Unidentified Flying Ojects Net

(1:167/





Message #7293 - MUFONET 

   Date : 02-Sep-91 23:37

   From : Jacques Poulet

     To : All

Subject : Just a theory! 3 of 4


 

CASE 4

Source:   TOUT SUR LES SOUCOUPES VOLANTES by Jean Ferguson, 258 

          pages, Lemiac.

 

          -How long did you observed together?

 

          -I'm not sure, a little more than 30 minutes.

 

          -What happenned next?

 

          -We got back in the car completely frozen. My friend 

     told me: "Why don't you flashes your lights?". The car beeing 

     in the general direction with the UFO, I thought I could try 

     it. I did just that. And sudenly, a very strong light was 

     shining on us, ... it lasted a few seconds, then the UFO 

     resumed its ...

 

CASE 5

Source:   INTRUDERS by Budd Hopkins, 318 pages, Ballantine, ISBN 

          0-345-34633-5.

 

     After an hypnosis session with Kathie where she described 

how they removed the foetus from her womb:

 

          ... I asked if she ever said anything to them, ever 

     told them that it was cruel, that they had no right to take 

     her baby. She spoke to me almost in a wisper, calmly 

     furious: "I screamed it at them." Then, in a sad, ironic mix 

     of incomprehension and profound personal loss, she added 

     this: "And the fucker looked surprised."

 

CASE 6

Source:   INTRUDERS by Budd Hopkins, 318 pages, Ballantine, ISBN 

          0-345-34633-5.

 

     During the abduction, Ed was raped:

 

          "... I was laying on my back on this bench and I didn't 

     have any clothes on, and somehow they made me erect and she 

     mounted me. ... and then she got off and left the room and 

     the two guys, they took little spoons and scraped the 

     leftover semen off my penis ..."

          "You know, Budd, I'm sterile. ... I'd had a vasectomy a 

     couple of years before this." The previous night, just after 

     he came out of the hypnotic trance, he mentioned that his 

     abductors had seemed angry at him, and now I understood why.

 

---

 * Origin: Scotian Gold {Mufonet) Mutual Unidentified Flying Ojects Net

(1:167/





Message #7294 - MUFONET 

   Date : 02-Sep-91 23:39

   From : Jacques Poulet

     To : All

Subject : Just a theory! 4 of 4


 

CASE 7

Source:   NIGHT SIEGE by Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Philip J. 

          Imbrogno with Bob Pratt, 207 pages, Ballantine, ISBN   

          0-345-37086-4.

 

          Slowing even more, he peered through the windshield, 

     straining to make out some type of shape behind the lights.

          "I thought to myself, 'I wish it would come closer so I 

     can get a better look at it,' and as soon as that thought 

     went through my mind, the object began to descend and head 

     straight for my car."

          It had switched off its "searchlight" and was now about 

     one hundred yards above the road.

 

 

 

          Let's try to show them the way they really are:

 

          One of God's (any god) feature is to be omniscient. 

Cases 1 and 2, where they didn't know, at first, that there was a 

human witness. In case 5, they didn't understand our psychology, 

while in case 6, they didn't know that the man they were 

abducting for semen sample was sterile. Those example show a less 

than know-it-all entity!

     

          Another of God's feature should be omnipotent. In case 

2, the four men can't locate the hidden truck driver. In case 3, 

they tell the abductee that "there has been a technical error". 

In general, they try their best to hide from us and erase traces 

of memory from contactee/abductee, but we still document (even if 

only partially) their presence and activities. Not so powerfull 

after all!

     

          They are very curious! They travel long distances to 

monitor, record and collect information. They seems to like to 

communicate! Maybe they are not suppose to contact any earthling, 

but they often do anyway. In case 4 and 7, they answer to a 

witness and in case 7, they even give him the opportunity to get 

a good look at their craft (as if they were proud of it!).

 

          They can even become angry! In case 6, Ed had a 

definite impression that they were angry at him. Also in case 3, 

which it isn't mentioned here, but there were two entities 

performing the abduction. The witness beleived that one of them 

was mad at him for an unknown reason and that it could be the 

cause of the "technical error".

 

 

          So, I think we can safely assume that those visitors 

are not god-like creatures. They are certainly members of 

advanced societies, but it doesn't means that they are flaw-less. 

 

 

                                        Jacques Poulet

 

---

 * Origin: Scotian Gold {Mufonet) Mutual Unidentified Flying Ojects Net

(1:167/




Message #7278 - MUFONET  (RECEIVED)

   Date : 01-Sep-91  0:22

   From : John Powell

     To : Jim Greenen

Subject : Abductions/Implants

Replies : #7277 <--> #7279


In a message to John Powell <30 Aug 91  8:40> Jim Greenen wrote:


 JG> John; there have been several implants been found and removed

 JG> from the abductees. These are being analyze at this time but no

 JG> conclusions have been announce as of yet. I think one of these

 JG> implants is at MIT but don't quote me on this.   ---Jim---


Can you back this up with documentation and sources?


Dr. Cro Magnon could figure out in about 20 seconds, with a K-Mart microscope,

that such an object was not from 'here'...


Thanks, take care.

John.


--- XRS! 4.50+

 * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)





Message #7947 - MUFONET 

   Date : 04-Sep-91 08:08

   From : Jim Greenen

     To : John Powell

Subject : Abductions/Implants

Replies : #7279 <-


 JP> In a message to John Powell <30 Aug 91  8:40> Jim Greenen

 JP> wrote:

 JP> 

 JP>  JG> John; there have been several implants been found and removed

 JP>  JG> from the abductees. These are being analyze at this time but no

 JP>  JG> conclusions have been announce as of yet. I think one of these

 JP>  JG> implants is at MIT but don't quote me on this.   ---Jim---

 JP> 

 JP> Can you back this up with documentation and sources?

 JP> 

 JP> Dr. Cro Magnon could figure out in about 20 seconds, with a

 JP> K-Mart microscope, that such an object was not from

 JP> 'here'...

 JP> 

 JP> Thanks, take care.

 JP> John.

 JP> 

 JP> --- XRS! 4.50+

 JP>  * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence

 JP> (Quick 1:19/19.19)

By Golly, I'm glad you ask. I just went to a lecture last night that was done

by Bill Knell and he mention this in his lecture. Yes, the implant was sent to

MIT for analyzes and is now at some other university. I think he said that the

results from MIT was that it was made out of earth material but the structure

was of a way that it couldn't be made on this planet with are present

technology.

   The person that this was taken out is named Richard Price and he is having

a book published at this moment and should be out on the shelves soon. If you

want to obtain more information on this Write to: Island Skywatch---164-22

77th Road, Flushing, NY 11365. 

   I hope this helps     73's    ---Jim---

--- RemoteAccess 0.03+

 * Origin: Gourmet Delight! Orlando FL  (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)



-- EOF -----------------------------------------------------------------



----- End Included Message -----

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb

From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Livermore Tests 2KW Laser Beam

Message-ID: <9202142313.AA28374@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Date: 14 Feb 92 23:13:11 GMT

Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU

Lines: 60


Even tho this is being used for research, none the less ALL air traffic has

been warned.  Why? Hmmmm....sure blindness but what if you upped the power,

sounds like a good weapon to me.....the question is against whom or more 

specifically.....what?


Len




----- Begin Included Message -----


From jtk@s1.gov Wed Feb 12 13:36:01 1992

Return-Path: <jtk@s1.gov>

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 13:35:16 PST

From: Jordan Kare <jtk@s1.gov>

Message-Id: <9202122135.AA19337@guardian.s1.gov>

To: bertsche@llnl.gov, lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com

Subject: artificial star

Status: RO



(Replying to your note to Kirk Bertsche -- he relayed the message to me,

and I know a bit more about what's going on).


Yes, there is a project at the Lab called "Guidestar" which

will use a large laser (the AVLIS laser, built for laser isotope

separation, about 2 kW output in the visible) to excite sodium ions

in the upper atmosphere.  It should be visible from the ground with a

modest telescope (I don't recall the exact brightness) as a yellow

star; it will be directly overhead in Livermore, and visible for 

several miles around.  There is, I believe, an active effort to 

get Livermore-area amateur astronomers to report on the appearance

(brightness and shape) of the "star".  Actual generation of a guide star

is still several months away, minimum, but some of the hardware is

in place, and they've just about got the environmental and safety approvals

needed.


I fear it won't be all that impressive, just a yellow blob 

hanging high over Livermore; large satellites seen at dusk are more

impressive and naked-eye visible.  However, you might try to 

contact the Institute for Geophysics and Planetary Physics, L-419,

(OOPS, make that L-413; my terminal is screwed up and I can't edit

properly right now) LLNL, P.O. Box 808, Livermore CA 94550, 

510-423-0621 and ask about the Guidestar project and possible

amateur observing opportunities.


Jordin Kare



----- End Included Message -----

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From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Who Lives in Dublin,Pleasonton,Livermore CA Area?

Message-ID: <9202142327.AA28475@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Date: 14 Feb 92 23:27:45 GMT

Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU

Lines: 11


If you live in this area of CA and you have a telescope, CALL ME at 

(510)828-6727.  I have been seeing some very strange activity by the

central star of the Cassieopia constellation.  I would like to start

a group watch. Also I heard that Pleasonton had a crop circle appear

about 2 - 4 months ago.  Anyone know anything?


Please Email response as I dont get this group.


Len


                                                   

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!ames!network.ucsd.edu!nic!netlabs!lwall

From: lwall@netlabs.com (Larry Wall)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars-face view from Hoaghland concerning Cydonia

Keywords: mars-face

Message-ID: <1992Feb15.010339.11187@netlabs.com>

Date: 15 Feb 92 01:03:39 GMT

References: <behse.697949192@tubue> <1992Feb14.014130.27576@midway.uchicago.edu>

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In article <1992Feb14.014130.27576@midway.uchicago.edu> keho@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

: I think I read this in that book about the Aztecs that predicted

: the harmonic convergance in 1988.  Has anyone else heard this

: story?  If it were true I expect it would be widely publicized

: by now.


Alas, you should expect no such thing.


Truth has almost no correlation with Publication.


Larry Wall

lwall@netlabs.com

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!mcnc!borg!pooh!davidson

From: davidson@pooh.cs.unc.edu (Drew Davidson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Crop Circles

Message-ID: <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu>

Date: 15 Feb 92 16:15:53 GMT

References: <1992Feb13.011648.23182@colorado.edu>

Sender: news@cs.unc.edu

Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

Lines: 36


In article <1992Feb13.011648.23182@colorado.edu> schiffd@tigger.Colorado.EDU (David M. Schiff) writes:

>There's an interesting article in the Feb. 1, '92 issue of

>Science News (vol. 141) on crop circles.   [...]

>

>   A retired astronomer, named Gerald S. Hawkins, claims that the

>crop designs imply important mathematical theorems.  As I've indicated

>earlier, this is not the first time somebody noticed this.


Did the other people notice the same theorems that he noticed?  What were

the other theorems that were noticed?


>The thing that makes this interesting is that these are (according to him)

>previously unknown theorems which he discovered by looking at pictures of

>the designs and later proved. He searched both ancient and modern mathematics

>textbooks but couldn't find anything even resembling these theorems.


If he sat down and proved the theorems so quickly how come nobody else has

proved them in the history of mankind?  Or was the entire proof also encoded 

in the crop circles?  Has he tried to publish the theorems and proofs as

his own discovery?  If they're important, then why the heck not?


>   Further, the four theorems discovered through investigation of separate

>crop designs are related by a fifth (and as yet undisclosed) theorem which

>encompasses the others.   


What are the theorems?  (You imply that the first four *are* disclosed.)

Were they in the Science News article?  Where can I find out what they

are?


Skeptical but curious,

Drew

-- 

Drew Davidson        \\     HELP FULLY INFORM JURORS!  TELL YOUR FRIENDS:

davidson@cs.unc.edu   \\    As a juror, you have the right to vote NOT GUILTY

 ** LEGALIZE TRUTH **  \\   if you believe the law broken is unjust or wrongly

* FULLY INFORM JURORS * \\  applied, regardless of the facts of the case.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!mercury.cair.du.edu!copper!dschiff

From: dschiff@copper.denver.colorado.edu (David Michael Schiff)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Crop Circles

Message-ID: <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>

Date: 15 Feb 92 20:47:24 GMT

References: <1992Feb13.011648.23182@colorado.edu> <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu>

Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

Lines: 44


In article <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> davidson@pooh.cs.unc.edu (Drew Davidson) writes:

> ...[my original article deleted]...        

>Did the other people notice the same theorems that he noticed?  What were

>the other theorems that were noticed?

>

Actually, I should have said it isn't the first time someone has noticed

mathematical content.  There's a photograph of another crop design which

is supposed to depict the "Mandelbrot Set".


>......

>If he sat down and proved the theorems so quickly how come nobody else has

>proved them in the history of mankind?  Or was the entire proof also encoded 

>in the crop circles?  Has he tried to publish the theorems and proofs as

>his own discovery?  If they're important, then why the heck not?

>

He said, "It's easy to prove the theorem but so difficult to conceive it." 

To prove his point he often refuses to divulge the fifth thm.

I don't know whether he tried to publish or not - that's a good question.


>......

>What are the theorems?  (You imply that the first four *are* disclosed.)

>Were they in the Science News article?  Where can I find out what they

>are?

>

The first four theorems are contained in the article.

If you're interested, I suggest you read it.


>Skeptical but curious,

I'll give the 2nd, 3rd & 4th, for the curious, as they're quite simple to

state.  If you're skeptical you could post to sci.math and see what people

there have to say and let us know (or do your own research).


II) For an equilateral triangle, the ratio ot the areas of the circumscribed

    and inscribed circles is 4:1.


III) For a square, the ratio of the areas of the circumscribed and

     inscribed circles is 2:1.


IV) For a regular hexagon, the ratio of the areas of the outer circle

    and the inscribed circle is 4:3.

 


>Drew

Dave

Path: ns-mx!uunet!infonode!case

From: case@infonode.ingr.com (Bill Case)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Summary: go there?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com>

Date: 15 Feb 92 21:43:10 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz>

Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.

Lines: 17

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In article <5054@otc.otca.oz>, siri@otc.otca.oz (Siri Hewa) writes:

> But Mars face

> stick out like a sore thumb on this picture. I think only way to get proof of

> any sort is to go there in person?.

     ^^^^^^

I haven't seen it,  but I know Italy looks alot like a boot.


If I'm paying the tax bill, what I favor is a robot IMAX camera where

the wind sounds are recorded in 8 channel,  dolby,  THX, etc.  If we did 

that,  then millions could come close to "going" to Mars,  without anyone

actually going.  We have the pictures from Apollo,  but they don't convey 

the awesome feeling of standing on the moon.  I want the experience.


Bill "Hmm,  would 3-D,  smell-o-vision work? :-)" Case

...uunet!ingr!b11!casey!case    (UUCP)

ingr!b11!casey!case@uunet.uu.net (ARPANET)

case@ingr.com         (Internet)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!vax1.umkc.edu!aellison

From: aellison@vax1.umkc.edu

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: The REPTOIDS Are Coming!

Message-ID: <1992Feb14.180754.1604@vax1.umkc.edu>

Date: 15 Feb 92 00:07:54 GMT

References: <10134@male.EBay.Sun.COM>

Organization: University of Missouri Computing Services

Lines: 21


In article <10134@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, randmc@eb4ts1.EBay.Sun.COM (Randal Martin) writes:

> SO BE AWARE! ONLY YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THIS FAKE INVASION AND FAKE RAPTURE CAN 

> PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING. DEMAND THE TRUTH FROM YOUR GOVERNMENT. TELL THEM 

> YOU KNOW ABOUT THE ALIENS AND THAT THERE ARE GOOD ALIENS AND BAD ALIENSAND 

> THAT MJ-12 IS PROMOTING THE BAD ALIENS AND THE ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT THEY HOPE

> TO CONTROL.


Smile and Nod.





-- 

                                                        Freelance Amiga

Allen B. Ellison        UMKC Physics UnderGrad

4343 Warwick            STM/AFM Research         //       Programmer

Kansas City, MO 64111                          \X/       

                                                              for

AELLISON@vax1.umkc.edu                                       Hire!

=============================== -- cut here -- ================================

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!cornell!cs.cornell.edu!nikos

From: nikos@cs.cornell.edu (Nikos P. Pitsianis)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Crop Circles

Message-ID: <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu>

Date: 16 Feb 92 01:59:47 GMT

References: <1992Feb13.011648.23182@colorado.edu> <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>

Sender: news@cs.cornell.edu (USENET news user)

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In article <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, dschiff@copper.denver.colorado.edu (David Michael Schiff) writes:


|> >What are the theorems?  (You imply that the first four *are* disclosed.)

|> >Were they in the Science News article?  Where can I find out what they

|> >are?

|> >

|> The first four theorems are contained in the article.

|> If you're interested, I suggest you read it.

|> 

|> >Skeptical but curious,

|> I'll give the 2nd, 3rd & 4th, for the curious, as they're quite simple to

|> state.  If you're skeptical you could post to sci.math and see what people

|> there have to say and let us know (or do your own research).

|> 

|> II) For an equilateral triangle, the ratio ot the areas of the circumscribed

|>     and inscribed circles is 4:1.

|> 

|> III) For a square, the ratio of the areas of the circumscribed and

|>      inscribed circles is 2:1.

|> 

|> IV) For a regular hexagon, the ratio of the areas of the outer circle

|>     and the inscribed circle is 4:3.

|>  

|> 

|> >Drew

|> Dave


The theorems are not only simple to state but simple to prove too! I don't 

think any mathematical journal will be interested in their publication

(except of course "Amusements in Mathematics" for high school level geometry).


For example the proof of "theorem" II is the following:

We know that for an equilateral triangle, the center of the circumscribed and

inscribed circles is the point where the altitudes and angle bisectors intersect.

(It is one and the same for equilateral triangles).

Let R and r the radii of the circumscribed and inscribed circles respectively.

Then, R and r are related to each other as the hypotenuse and a side of

a right-angle triangle, where r is opposite to an angle that is half the angle

of the equilateral triangle that is equal to 60 degrees.


So r/R = sin 30 = 1/2. R is twice as long as r, therefore the ratio ot the areas of the circumscribed and inscribed circles is 4:1. QED


Regards,

-- Nikos

______________________________________________________________________________


   Nikos P Pitsianis                 Internet : nikos@cs.cornell.edu    

   Cornell University                   Phone : (607) 255 3042          

   4130 Upson Hall, Dept of Comp Sc       FAX : (607) 255 4428          

   Ithaca, NY 14853                      Home : (607) 257 4579          

______________________________________________________________________________

Path: ns-mx!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!gatech!udel!sbcs.sunysb.edu!csws10.ic.sunysb.edu!jflint

From: jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Summary: Seeing things...

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu>

Date: 16 Feb 92 03:40:58 GMT

Expires: Sat, 29 Feb 1992 05:00:00 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com>

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Nntp-Posting-Host: csws10.ic.sunysb.edu


Italy may look like a boot...

but not much. 

The Face may look like a face...

but certainly more than Italy looks like a boot.

--Tog

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!ub!csn!copper!dschiff

From: dschiff@copper.denver.colorado.edu (David Michael Schiff)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Crop Circles

Message-ID: <2417@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>

Date: 16 Feb 92 05:16:27 GMT

References: <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu>

Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

Lines: 28


In article <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> nikos@cs.cornell.edu (Nikos P. Pitsianis) writes:

> [stuff deleted]

>The theorems are not only simple to state but simple to prove too! I don't 

>think any mathematical journal will be interested in their publication

>(except of course "Amusements in Mathematics" for high school level geometry).

>

>For example the proof of "theorem" II is the following:

>[proof deleted]

Right and for theorem III the proof is the following:

r = (1/2)s, R = [r^2 + (s/2)^2]^1/2 = [(s/2)^2 + (s/2)^2]^1/2

so the ratio of the areas = R^2/r^2 = (s^2/2)(4/s^2) = 2:1.  


But, as Hawkins said, the fun part is thinking them up. 

Can you (or anyone else) think of the fifth theorem which is

the generalized form of the first four?


What I'd really like to know is what he saw in the data and the

photographs to inspire a couple of these theorems.

For example, the relationship between the design consisting of

a circle and four corners - all circumscribed by another circle,

and theorem III.


It would also be nice to know how he discovered the whole numbers

which match the ratios of the diatonic scale.


Regards,

Dave 

 

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy

From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <1992Feb16.044444.13547@anasaz>

Date: 16 Feb 92 04:44:44 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com>

Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az

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In article <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> case@infonode.ingr.com (Bill Case) writes:

->In article <5054@otc.otca.oz>, siri@otc.otca.oz (Siri Hewa) writes:

->> But Mars face

->> stick out like a sore thumb on this picture. I think only way to get proof of

->> any sort is to go there in person?.

->      ^^^^^^

->I haven't seen it,  but I know Italy looks alot like a boot.

->

... stuff deleted ...


Suppose there are people on Mars and they have faces that look like boots.

Then we'd really have something.

-- 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

     Bill Moore     billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu    (602) 395-1732

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Livermore Tests 2KW Laser Beam

Message-ID: <jms.07bt@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 15 Feb 92 20:28:05 GMT

References: <9202142313.AA28374@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 9


Did we *really* have to bring this into the conspiracy theory arena?

There's no reason to believe that it's for anything other than its intended

scientific purpose.


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?

Message-ID: <jms.07c7@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 16 Feb 92 01:54:29 GMT

References: <9202142258.AA28258@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 18


Until the government sources come forward so their story can be checked

out, I'm afraid these stories aren't going to get much sympathy from me.


By the way, I recently saw a file transcribed from Chuck Harder's radio

show, "For The People".  It contains an alleged New York Times article

concerning the discovery of object "8-13A" which is (what else?) a

suspected asteroid-sized spacecraft entering our solar system.  However, I

happen to know that this article was taken from a 1978 work of fiction

titled "The Extraterrestrial Report".  The book contains many fake

newspaper/magazine articles and government documents.  Nearly all of them

are written so satirically that they're immediately identifiable as fakes.

Unfortunately, the "8-13A" article is one of the few that aren't.


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!smeagol

From: smeagol@carina.unm.edu (Karl P.)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum (A Response)

Message-ID: <9kaha+h@lynx.unm.edu>

Date: 16 Feb 92 22:16:18 GMT

References: <16c9baa2@nacjack.gen.nz>

Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Lines: 13



Well, this was an unfunny, childish, masturbatory, little series.


Hopefully, the infant responsible has been scolded by his mommy and

had his daddy's modem disassembled and forced into his anal cavity.


---Reverend Smeagol


-- 

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????  

?   smeagol@carina.unm.edu     ? It has yet to be proven that intelligence  ? 

?    Global Village Idiot      ? has any survival value.---Arthur C. Clarke ?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!adelphi.ua.oz.au!ijameson

From: ijameson@adelphi.ua.oz.au (Iain Jameson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: The Shriek of the Looney - Part two

Message-ID: <6291@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>

Date: 17 Feb 92 00:40:02 GMT

Sender: news@ucs.adelaide.edu.au

Reply-To: ijameson@adelphi.ua.oz.au (Iain Jameson)

Organization: Department of Physics, University of Adelaide, South Australia

Lines: 42

Nntp-Posting-Host: adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au



CHAPTER FOUR : The Book of the Prophet - part two


Thus it was between the Pleiadians and the Lyrans. The so-called

`Cappuccino Wars' ravaged an entire sector of our galaxy. Whole

star stytems were laid waste. The Lyrians fought well, but were no

match for the Purple Shades of Grey with their herbal teas and

stick breads. It was thus out of desperation that the Pleiadians

started to create the new race - a race genetically altered in such

a way that the first coffee of the morning was the result of

millenia of selective breeding.


"But what of the tea drinkers?" you ask. Well, it was realized long ago

that in order to understand the magnitude of the problem, a small

group which drank tea should be created. `Know thine enemy,' was the catch

phrase of the day - along with `Oh shit, there goes another planet,'

and `Bugger, I was enjoying that.' It is for this reason that coffee

drinkers everywhere despise drinkers of tea, especially Devonshire tea.


I have talked about the Pleiadians and the Lyrans. They, however, are

not the only people who have fought the Purple Shades of Grey. On another

front were the Ummonians, from the jewelled planet Ummo.

Send me all of your money. You will forget you read this.

The Ummonians are a race older than the galaxy. While the Pleiadians

were little more than slime molds, the Ummonians were creating puff

pastries that were to be, in time, the basis for several forms of life

in the Small Magellanic Cloud. Before the Lyrians understood the

importance of the term `espresso' the Ummonians had discovered a

process by which one's coffee never went cold, no matter how long

one let it stand. Yes my children, the Ummonians knew where it was at!

Yet, even such a race was hard put against the evil of the Purple

Shades of Grey. The mighty beam weapons of the Ummonians were worthless

against their most secret and powerful weapon - fruit tea and biscuts.

I would like to thank Lewis for proof reading this post.

Even the powerful Ummonians had to concede defeat on several occasions.

On one such occasion, they passed through our system, and built a series

of coffee rooms on the fourth and fifth planets. The Purple Shades of Grey

destroyed the fifth planet, but the coffee rooms were cunningly disguised

as pyramids on the red planet, and were thus saved - which was fortunate

because around that time, on the red planet, a party was being thrown in

honour of the exalted one's billionth birthday. The reaction of souffle

with herbal tea would have destroyed the galaxy!

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!sun13!ds1.scri.fsu.edu!pepke

From: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <7171@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>

Date: 17 Feb 92 02:28:38 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu>

Sender: news@sun13.scri.fsu.edu

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Distribution: usa

Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them

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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4455 sci.space:26653 sci.skeptic:20637 alt.paranormal:4383


In article <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:

>Italy may look like a boot...

>but not much. 

>The Face may look like a face...

>but certainly more than Italy looks like a boot.


And the Kermit the Frog on Mars looks a hell of a lot more like Kermit the

Frog than the Face looks like a face.


So just what exactly is the point?


-EMP

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham

From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <1992Feb17.041508.9188@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Date: 17 Feb 92 05:12:34 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <7171@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>

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Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu


In article <7171@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes...

>In article <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:

>>Italy may look like a boot...

>>but not much. 

>>The Face may look like a face...

>>but certainly more than Italy looks like a boot.

>And the Kermit the Frog on Mars looks a hell of a lot more like Kermit the

>Frog than the Face looks like a face.


That is simply not true.  I have to work a lot harder at seeing the "frog"

than I do the "face".


Besides, if this were true, it blows the "human mind looks for faces"

argument used by armchair debunkers, doesn't it?


Maybe you're different.  Maybe YOUR brain is more tuned to looking for

frogs, but not me. :-)


Jim Graham 


        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

                          Neither do they speak for me.

 ______________________________________________________________________

| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

|           dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu                        |

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Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple!claris!szebra!spectrx!system

From: system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Keywords: waste of bandwith, stupidity, asine behavior

Message-ID: <HVo0FB2w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>

Date: 17 Feb 92 02:31:40 GMT

References: <16c921d7@nacjack.gen.nz>

Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca

Lines: 14


Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge) writes:


>  I am a human alien. You're just funny looking...

> ---


get a life, stop wasting other peoples money by posting this crap


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aaron Anderer, System Operator                system@spectrx.saigon.com

SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1 408 252 1005              szebra!spectrx!system          

NO MORE BUSH!          Write in Cuomo for '92!        NO MORE BUSH!

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!bmb

From: bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan Bankhead)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>

Date: 16 Feb 92 21:41:36 GMT

References: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu>

Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login)

Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

Lines: 15

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4458 sci.space:26659 sci.skeptic:20638 alt.paranormal:4384


jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:


> Italy may look like a boot...

> but not much. 

> The Face may look like a face...

> but certainly more than Italy looks like a boot.

> --Tog


Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike 

the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees 

or other objects in outlins.


 This is from

     bmb@bluemoon.rn.com

who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu!pgalley

From: pgalley@isis.cs.du.edu (Patrick galley)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Ummits

Message-ID: <1992Feb17.071016.13327@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>

Date: 17 Feb 92 07:10:16 GMT

Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account)

Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.

Lines: 13



In JP Petit's book about the Ummit's he said that there are some

connections between the Ummits and some groups of human trough the world

and not only in Spain.

Does someone know information from other source about this ?


It would be very kind if you could answer me directly by e-mail , because

I can't access easily to alt.alien.visitors.



Patrick Galley : Student at the Engineer School of Geneva


e-mail : galley@eig.unige.ch

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!yang.earlham.edu!toms

From: toms@yang.earlham.edu (Wearer of the Purple Toga)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: There are no victims! (was Re: Creating reali

Message-ID: <1992Feb14.213404.15321@yang.earlham.edu>

Date: 15 Feb 92 02:34:03 GMT

References: <1992Feb11.001142.25150@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> <1992Feb14.213126.15320@yang.earlham.edu>

Followup-To: talk.religion.newage

Distribution: usa

Lines: 64


In article <1992Feb14.213126.15320@yang.earlham.edu>, toms@yang.earlham.edu (Wearer of the Purple Toga) writes:

> In article <1992Feb11.001142.25150@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>, jtg@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Redheaded Goddess) writes:

> toms@yang. etc. (Sluuurp) writes:  "...giving Kathy

> instructions on how to do a follow up"

> toms@yang Sluuurp:  Did it ever occur to you that 

> 1)  I never read your post

  Actually, yes.  

> 2)  I am not interested in your 'instructions'?

  Bullshit.  You only say that because of who they come from.

> Perhaps you should go back a few hundred centuries, where

> women followed mens' instructions implicitly.

  Oh, so if you were a man, I wouldn't speak this way to you.  It's 

 all so clear now...  

> Wake up, Sluuurp.  This is the time and age where the Feminine

> is beginning to validate herself.

  So just because I flame you, I'm a Male Chauvinist Pig (tm).  Your 

 ability to make huge leaps in 'logic' astounds me.  You're right.  I 

 believe that all women should be kept barefoot and pregnant all their 

 lives, and should be subservient and obedient to men in all things, should 

 only speak when they're spoken to...  

 

  Anyway, why should women ever have to validate themselves as such? 

  That's actually quite a male chauvinist thing to say.  Women have always 

 had validity.  Perhaps you should look up the word.  And if the women's 

 movement only had people like you to speak for it, it never would have 

 gotten anywhere.  You're practically as bad as an obnoxious, small-minded 

 girl who furiously accused a friend of mine of being racist because he 

 made fun of a couple of videos on BET and mentioned that he hated disco 

 music.  Sound like a non sequitur to you (well, maybe it doesn't)?  That's 

 the point.

> As far as it's vx. its'...I know all that stuff.  I am just 

> a very fast typist and thinker, and don't always take time

  Obviously.  You think so fast that you have the ability to 

 determine my attitude towards the relationship between the sexes from a 

 post in which I neither implied nor explicitly said anything about about 

 it.  And we're supposed to believe and trust you when you tell us how the 

 universe and the human mind actually work.  Despite your research into 

 this subject, you have no credibility.

> to make corrections.  You will have to live with it, or 'n'

> my posts, as I probably will yours.

> Kathy

  Yeah, right.  I remember you saying something on 

 talk.religion.newage about how "narrow minded flames will be ignored."  

 Just like you ignored mine.  Stop contradicting yourself.  Also, if I 

didn't read you posts, I'd have to go back to rec.humor.  I am pleased, 

 though, with your correct spelling of the word, "Sluuurp."  

 

  "Things are more like they are today than they 

               have ever been before."

  -Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

  - Thomas James Douglas Morrison Schmidt

    ECMLVDC

  - Light Terminal Operator

 

             -==Earlham College MoonLight VAX Driving Corps==-

         "Bad craziness, fast terminals, and nothing better to do."

 

 

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!gibdo!tvp

From: tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Crop Circles

Message-ID: <1992Feb17.111438.21406@gibdo.engr.washington.edu>

Date: 17 Feb 92 11:38:10 GMT

References: <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu>

Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System)

Organization: clearer than blir

Lines: 55


In article <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> nikos@cs.cornell.edu (Nikos P. Pitsianis) writes:

[deletions]


>|> 

>|> II) For an equilateral triangle, the ratio ot the areas of the

>|>     circumscribed and inscribed circles is 4:1.

>|> 

>|> III) For a square, the ratio of the areas of the circumscribed and

>|>      inscribed circles is 2:1.

>|> 

>|> IV) For a regular hexagon, the ratio of the areas of the outer circle

>|>     and the inscribed circle is 4:3.

>|>  

>|> 

>|> >Drew

>|> Dave

>

>The theorems are not only simple to state but simple to prove too! I don't 

>think any mathematical journal will be interested in their publication

>(except of course "Amusements in Mathematics" for high school level geometry).

>

>For example the proof of "theorem" II is the following:


[obvious proof deleted]


I think the open-minded (but not so open your brains ooze out your

ears) skeptic (the type I like to be) would say: Yes, but is the claim

that these theorems have never been stated before true or false?

Statements such as: "This is too trivial to be important" or "someone

*must* have come up with this somewhere" are rather useless, I think.

If we take the poster at his word that he looked everywhere he could

for them and he couldn't find them, I would say it is up to *us* to

find them somewhere. If we can't we have to look at what the discoverer

claims to be his source (the circles) and the explanation as to how

they inspired him, and see if that explanation is reasonable. Still,

one thing a skeptic could *still* argue at that point is:


The man, staring at shapes he *believed* to be made by intelligent

beings, searched so hard for meaning that he found it in the form of

five as yet undiscovered theorems. The fact that they were

undiscovered may be praiseworthy, but it wouldn't necessarily mean any

intelligence behind the crop circle formations had anything to do with

it. No, after showing that the theorems are probably new, we would

need evidence that the very layout of the crop circles was *designed*

to lead to the discovery of these theorems and again determine if this

seems reasonable. It would however probably still be inconclusive.

Now, if the discoverer of these theorems could state a formal _method_

of how one decodes the crop circles, and this method was then applied

independently by others to discover additional new theorems based on

future formations, you would start getting a lot of attention I would

think. As it is, I have noted it as a very interesting claim and hope

to see it supported in the rigorous fashion I have outlined as being

necessary.


-- Tad Perry

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Ecker

From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Something Wicked This Way Comes?

Message-ID: <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 16 Feb 92 23:06:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 9:1012/3.0 - <ParaNet ALPH, Los Angeles CA

Lines: 106


In the message "Something Wicked This Way Comes?" Len Bucuvalas quoted John 

Ford of Long Island UFO Update;


 > The following information is taken directly form the April issue of The

 > Long

 > Island U.F.O. Update, the monthly bulletin for the Long Island UFO

 > Network.

 >

 > THE CHAIRMAN'S CORNER                                      BY JOHN FORD

 >

 >

 >                           SOMETHING IS COMING OUR WAY!

 >

 >       In Ufology, you hear a lot of strange stories.  Some you have to

 > take

 > at face value, while others are too far fetched to believe even in this

 > strange study of unusual objects and humanoid beings.  Some stories you

 > mark


In UFO Magazine Volume 7 No. 1 I wrote a forum piece on this business because 

of a guest appearence I had on the Chuck Harder Radio Program. I spoke 

about an investigation I conducted on the Phobos II incident, Harder then 

mentioned the famous asteroid story. Later Richard Hoagland attacked 

Harder on the air and Harder severed Hoagland from the show. The following is 

the forum piece that ran in *UFO Magazine.


***************************************************************************


UFO Magazine Volume 7, Number 1 Copyrighted@ 1992


by Don Ecker/Director Research


Stray Asteroid Story Sings UFO `Groupies'




by Don Ecker


What is an asteroid? Well the easiest answer is a large rock

floating in space. They also can be potentially a dangerous piece

of rock. Some paleontologists have blamed an asteroid for the

destruction of the dinosaurs around 65 million years ago.


The theory goes that one of the innumerable asteroids in orbit about

the sun, and a rather large one at that, was pulled into Earths

gravity. Or we just happened to be in the wrong place at the right

time, and one landed with the force of millions of megatons of

destruction and changed the entire face of the planet and irrevocably

altered the fauna on the surface of the planet.


Asteroids can be fatal to radio careers to. It seems that former

science advisor to radio talk show host Chuck Harder, Richard

Hoagland, embarrassed Harder on the air, thereby severing his

weekly spot on Harders show. Harder had been speaking publicly on

his program about an alleged asteroid that had been, according to

what appeared to be a New York Times story from 1977 speeding its way to 

Earth, making what the story claimed were course changes. The Times article 

duly quoted purported scientists, and sounded very legit; it turned out that 

when the New York Times Index was checked, along with microfiche copies from 

that date and several days after, no such article could be found. It was 

someone's very real looking fabrication.


Harder had given the story a lot of air play, and on one of

Hoaglands weekly spots, he attacked Harder on the air, lambasting him for 

giving out the story without, accoring to Hoagland, checking the facts. Of 

course, if someone is giving you free air time to pontificate nationally it 

is not a good idea to shoot yourself in the foot because you have a hangnail.


Harder is not the only one to be taken in by the story of a course

changing asteroid. Virgil Armstrong has written and spoken about

this asteroid on its way to earth full of alien bad guys. Other

conspiratorial UFO groupies have written about it, and before I

could say "Shozbot" I had heard about the fearsome "Draco" lizard

guys on board the asteroid, and they were supposedly on their way

to earth for a snack.


For a number of months it seemed like everyone was talking about

"the asteroid". John Ford of LIUFON wrote in his editor's column

this past spring about the mysterious asteroid, and claimed that

he heard about it from Linda Howe.


According to Ford Howe had told him it came from a Pentagon

contact, and yes it was observed changing course. Well, the closest

thing we have heard about is a several meter long "thingy" that was

to have passed close to earth by December 5th, 1991 and at last

report, all of earth's spaced based defense systems are still at

"Condition Green". Somehow I think that if some huge asteroid was

on its way toward earth, the MJ-12 guys couldn't silence everybody

about this.  <G> I still keep my ears open for those astronomer's down

in deepest-darkest South America. They would be sure to let us

know, after all, they are the only guys that can point their

telescopes out toward Zeti Reticulum to see if anything is on its

way in. Somehow I won't loose too much sleep over the rest of this

tripe.

**********************************************************************



Don Ecker

UFO Magazine

PO Box 1053

Sunland, CA 91041


--  

Don Ecker - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!descartes!jsinclai

From: jsinclai@descartes.waterloo.edu (Jack Sinclair)

Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars-face info why it might be no optical delusion!

Keywords: mars face

Message-ID: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu>

Date: 17 Feb 92 17:36:51 GMT

References: <1992Feb5.192555.13090@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu> <1992Feb10.193545.18596@cadence.com> <1992Feb11.075838.9984@csi.compuserve.com>

Organization: University of Waterloo

Lines: 26

Xref: ns-mx sci.space:26671 sci.skeptic:20653 alt.alien.visitors:4463 alt.paranormal:4385


In article <1992Feb11.075838.9984@csi.compuserve.com> dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:

>>>In article <1992Feb05.164042.10541@csi.compuserve.com> dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:

>>>>Maybe you ought to spend a little less time yelling about the subject, and

>>>>a little more time citing your evidence for why a reasonable skeptic would

>>>>not think there was a face in the pictures.

>>>

>>>Oh come on now.  Are you seriously denying that people see faces in natural

>>>formations on the Earth?

>

>Well, to be honest everyone, I think the meaning of my original response may

>have become a littles muddled.

>

>I myself personally believe that the "Face" on Mars is little more than 

>another geographical feature that HAPPENS to be in the shape of a face,

>(just in case anyone's wondering, NO...I DON'T want to get into a lengthy 

>discussion as to whether it actually IS a face), and that most of the hooplah


Gosh, if it were a face, it would be capable of laughing, smiling, winking, etc.

But not many of us believe that to be the case.  So, it actually ISN'T a face.

;-)


> dzecchin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | to be a live lion.  And usually easier."


Jack 

-- 

jsinclai@descartes.waterloo.edu

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath

From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins

Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality

Keywords: mistake, UFOs, psi, creationism

Message-ID: <1992Feb17.184316.29894@m.cs.uiuc.edu>

Date: 17 Feb 92 18:43:16 GMT

References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1992Feb15.033429.8688@cs.mcgill.ca>

Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))

Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu

Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

Lines: 14

Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20656 alt.paranormal:4387 alt.alien.visitors:4464 talk.origins:14976


In article <1992Feb15.033429.8688@cs.mcgill.ca>, pisces@cs.mcgill.ca (L. M. P. McPherson) writes in part:

|> 

|> I believe another name for this is the "fallacy of the false dilemma." It is

|> an either/or mentality. [...]

|> This error pervades all areas of science, and leads to much

|> fruitless discussion.

I would observe that it pervades all areas of human discourse, not just

science.  This is, of course, a staple of advertising and political 

propaganda.


-- 

  Robert E. McGrath

  Urbana Illinois

  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!masscomp!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona

From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Whatever Happened to Bill Cooper? (was: Grey Aliens sighted ..again)

Message-ID: <1992Feb17.070314.15221@bilver.uucp>

Date: 17 Feb 92 07:03:14 GMT

References: <1992Feb11.041107.4504@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Feb11.202017.2352@anasaz> <1992Feb13.192005.20795sheaffer@netcom.COM>

Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL

Lines: 35


In article <1992Feb13.192005.20795sheaffer@netcom.COM> sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

>Naah, Cooper is still making the rounds. He was a major honcho at the

>"Penomicon" UFOs-and-Conspiracies conference in Atlanta last November.

>He gave a couple of "free" talks, but if you wanted to hear more, you

>had to pay $20 for some "private" sessions. He also did some TV

>interviews, and had scheduled some more expensive all-weekend seminars.

>And it looks like he had quite a few "buyers" (one born every minute?).

>On one panel, Cooper proclaimed that the "New World Order" would be

>a reality in "less than two years". I then pointed out that if all these

>nightmare things haven't come to pass by Nov. 2, 1993, then we KNOW

>we can safely ignore everything Cooper has to say.


Cooper has been *thoroughly* discredited by not only the very words

out of his mouth on _recordings_ of "threats" to other people, but

also Don Ecker did a 2 part series in UFO Magazine in the summer of 

1990 on his expose' of "The Whistleblowers".

 

Also...if you ones will please note just how many times Cooper changes

his "story" around on the differences between "MJ-12" vs "MAJIC" and

"Majestic" in his earlier docs. Dead giveaway. I also have a text where

Bo Gritz is shown some of Cooper's "works" and especially what "security

codes" that Cooper uses in his docs and says in effect "That's Bullshit."

 

As for the "New World Order"...it's already well on it's way in the

treasonous undertaking of "The Newstates Declaration" being pushed by

the Rockefeller-Rothschild-Bilderberg-British Freemasonry crowd.

 

Don



-- 

-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?

Internet: dona@bilver.uucp  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM

UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"

Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!youngs

From: youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Scott D. Young)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <1992Feb17.212745.14815@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

Date: 17 Feb 92 21:27:45 GMT

References: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>

Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4466 sci.space:26688 sci.skeptic:20664 alt.paranormal:4388


In <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan Bankhead) writes:


>jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:


>Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike 

>the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees 

>or other objects in outlins.


   Where do you get this from?  There are (I believe) 2, count'em, 2 shots of

   this feature.  Both have the same sun angle and thus the same shadows. No

   oblique-angle shots or shots with other sun-angles exist.  Thus your

   statement is ridiculous.  The face looks like a face when the sun shines at

   one particular angle and when viewed from a certain angle.  That is all we

   "know" to date.  It may be that the feature resembles a face at other angles,

   or not.  We will not "know"  until more data is available.



   Scott Young

   youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca

   Disclaimers apply

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!hollie.rdg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph

From: trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb17.172324.27902@ryn.mro4.dec.com>

Date: 17 Feb 92 18:14:55 GMT

Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System)

Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4467 sci.space:26689 sci.skeptic:20666 alt.paranormal:4389



In article <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>, bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan Bankhead) writes...

>jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:

>Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike 

>the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees 

>or other objects in outlins.

> This is from

>     bmb@bluemoon.rn.com

>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet


Prove it.

(Yes, I have read Hoagland - thought it was a bunch of crapola, mostly. A whole

book and a lost civilazation from two grainy photographs...! Percival Lowell

all over again.)

-Tom R.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!news

From: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: A survey!

Message-ID: <kq0gomINNa69@phad.hsc.usc.edu>

Date: 17 Feb 92 23:19:50 GMT

Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA

Lines: 57

NNTP-Posting-Host: phad.hsc.usc.edu


I am conducting a survey on the subject of UFOs.  I would appreciate it if

you will answer the following questions truthfully.  I am not affiliated

with any government agencies, and I feel that UFOs may exist.  The results of

this survey will be tabulated and sent to any requesting party.  The identity

of answering parties will be witheld from any summaries made from this survey,

unless the party gives permission to release this information.


This is the first in what may be a series of surveys.  Please remember, this

is a serious survey;  please give serious answers.


Do you believe that UFOs physically exist?


Are you an UFO investigator?

    For how long?

    What aspects do you investigate?

    How many cases have you handled?

    How are cases referred to you?

    What are your network addresses?

    What is your phone number?

    What geographic areas do you cover?


Do you belong to any professional organizations?

    If so, please list organizations.


Are you a college graduate, or in school now?

    If so, please state year(s) and place(s) of graduation and major(s).


Do you have physical proof of the existance of UFOs?

    Please describe.


Have you ever seen, been inside, or seen the occupant(s) of an UFO?

    Please elaborate.

    Have you ever reported this to any research group or agency?

Please state dates, times, report numbers, and to whom the incident

was reported.


Do you believe in the possibility of a coverup on the subject of UFOs?

    If so, do you believe that it would be for the general good of the public

    to continue such a coverup?  Please elaborate.

    Do you believe that the Government(s) involved will ever release any

    information on the subject?


Do you believe that there are beings on this planet that were not born here?

    Have you ever met one?  Describe.


Do you believe there is a connection between New Age religion and the UFOs?


Do you believe that New Age discussions have a place in UFO research?


Do you believe that crop circles are created by UFOs?


Do you wish any of this information to be released to requesting parties?

-- 

+-------------------------+------------------------------------------------

| dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu  | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed,

|   Just my opinions!     | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! -The Prisoner

+-------------------------+------------------------------------------------

Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph

From: trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?

Message-ID: <1992Feb17.180352.28973@ryn.mro4.dec.com>

Date: 17 Feb 92 18:01:51 GMT

Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System)

Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Lines: 58



>From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)

>

>Sorry if some of this has been here before. Some of this is new.

>Len

>Thu 30 May 91 19:29

>By: Mike Christol

>

>      It seems that in 1987, NASA picked up the presence of a very large

>planetoid object entering our solar system near the area of Pluto.  It was

>first detected by Voyager and later confirmed by telescope observations both


Good trick, seeing that neither Voyager was ever anywhere near Pluto.


>      The object has been under constant observation since.  It was last

>reported in the area of Jupiter.  That last position was of January of this


Anything that big that close would have been noticed by amateur astronomers

by now - comet hunters if noone else.  Jupiter has moons that size which can

be seen in binoculars.


>photograph distant stars or the Sun's corona.  The Hubble telescope doesn't

>work and needs to be repaired, yet it is pointed straight out there and can

>return pictures through computer enhancement.


Perhaps someone should read up on their optics?


>      Consider this too.  Our Moon's orbit has condensed by three thousand

>miles while the Earth's axis has tilted slightly as if pushed ever so gently

>by the invisible hand of a tremendous gravitational field.  Have you noticed


This is demonstrably false. (i.e. prove it.)


>Now, the "official" word is that SS433 (Stephenson-Saundeleak) is

>a very odd-behaviour type pulsar...but it would appear, that this

>is a cover for the above-mentioned article. This article,BTW, appeared


Are we trying to equate a pulsar with this 1000-mile asteroid thing here?

This shows gross ignorance of things astronomical.


>By David L. Chandler, Globe Staff

> A week ago, astronomers had decided that the tiny object,

                                                     ^^^^

What happened to 1000 miles?


>I heard in Dec that there was a large (3mi diam) object coming toward

>earth... Some guy from NASA was saying that it was about

>a year away.. He called it something like Tutautus???? 

>Anyone up on this stuff? 


Yes, it's yet another asteroid. Face it, folks, we live in a Solar system

full of debris. If you're gonna make every little Earth-approaching object

into a full-blown flying saucer, you'll be a very busy doobie...


-Tom R.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!gumby!kzoo!k080093

From: k080093@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Josh N. Vander Berg)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <1992Feb17.235112.23708@hobbes.kzoo.edu>

Date: 17 Feb 92 23:51:12 GMT

References: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>

Organization: Kalamazoo College

Lines: 32

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4470 sci.space:26698 sci.skeptic:20671 alt.paranormal:4390


In article <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan Bankhead) writes:

>

>Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike 

>the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees 

>or other objects in outlins.

>

> This is from

>     bmb@bluemoon.rn.com

>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet


I am sorry - but, SO WHAT IF THERE IS A FORMATION THAT LOOKS LIKE A FACE ON

MARS?  Am I missing something here?  What is the significance, even if this

formation bears a REMARKABLE versimilitude to a human face?  Neato, so there

are face shaped and pyramid shaped formations on Mars, ok, I guess this means

that there is a THRIVING populations of pyramid/face building martians just

ITCHING to channel themselves through a human host and show us the universe. 

I am convinced.


Maybe we could convince them to come here and build faces so that the people

on Venus could see them through their telescopes.  Then maybe we could get

them to turn a whole PLANET into a face.   Probably have to use Mercury.  Then

we could get people from other planetary systems to think that there is

intelligent life in this solar system...  Then maybe we could line up all the

stars around the Sol so that they draw a smiley face for beings looking from

another Galaxy.


Hey, there is a BIG HUGE mitten in the United States...  a LOT bigger than

that face, maybe there are alien mitten makers living amongst us, maybe they

want to channel with us too?


Just a few suggestions,

Josh Vander Berg                          k080093@kzoo.edu

Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!pages!bruce

From: bruce@pages.com (Bruce Henderson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: This Whole Mars Face Off

Message-ID: <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com>

Date: 18 Feb 92 00:56:29 GMT

References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu>

Sender: bruce@pages.com

Organization: Banzai Research Insttute

Lines: 14


About the face.


Let's all admit that the photographic evidence we have to go on for now is  

pretty worthless.  It's not real scientific research grade stuff.  And we can  

all scream and yell about what this fuzzy image enhanced thing looks like.


The truth of the matter is:

Mars Obsever goes up this year and will be in Mars orbit next year.  At that  

point they can resolve that hunk of rock at with a resolution of 3 meters, many  

times the magnification and detail of the original photo.  At that point this  

whole discussion will be silly.  If anyone left junk anywhere on Mars, we'll  

know by '94


Bruce

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua

From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb18.012814.26252@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

Date: 18 Feb 92 01:28:14 GMT

References: <1992Feb17.172324.27902@ryn.mro4.dec.com>

Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!

Lines: 20

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4472 sci.space:26702 sci.skeptic:20679 alt.paranormal:4391


trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes:


|>In article <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>, bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan 

|>Bankhead) writes...

|>>jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:


|>>Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike 

|>>the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees 

|>>or other objects in outlins.


|>Prove it.

|>(Yes, I have read Hoagland - thought it was a bunch of crapola, mostly. A 

|>whole book and a lost civilazation from two grainy photographs...! Percival 

|>Lowell all over again.)


I'd be happy to see some better photos. what resolution is the mars observor

going to give us? if it is sufficiently fine it should settle the question

once and for all.


josh

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua

From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <1992Feb18.013113.26352@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

Date: 18 Feb 92 01:31:13 GMT

References: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> <1992Feb17.212745.14815@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!

Lines: 23

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4473 sci.space:26703 sci.skeptic:20681 alt.paranormal:4393


youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Scott D. Young) writes:


|>In <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan Bankhead) 

|>writes:

|>>jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:


|>>Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike 

|>>the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees 

|>>or other objects in outlins.


|>   Where do you get this from?  There are (I believe) 2, count'em, 2 shots of

|>   this feature.  Both have the same sun angle and thus the same shadows. 


they have different sun-angles. 


really. don't take my word for it. they are both reproduced in hoagland's

book (which you have read, right?).


|>  We will not "know"  until more data is available.


I'll agree with that.


josh

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!samsung!nstar!npal!dcook

From: dcook@npal.rn.com

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?

Message-ID: <5614@npal.rn.com>

Date: 17 Feb 92 08:48:42 GMT

Organization: PalNet -  Indianapolis, Indiana

Lines: 8



Argh!!! I missed it!!!


Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the

*stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle

flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the

astronauts?  - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!

-- 

Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!claris!szebra!spectrx!system

From: system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?

Keywords: stolen videotapes NASA

Message-ID: <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>

Date: 18 Feb 92 04:52:12 GMT

References: <5614@npal.rn.com>

Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca

Lines: 20


dcook@npal.rn.com writes:


> Argh!!! I missed it!!!

> Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the

> *stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle

> flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the

> astronauts?  - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!

> -- 


I say if anyone has those on the net, that they should digitize the photos 

and post them, so the government cannot quiet it.  It would be spread all 

over the world and expose the government for what it is.  In an election 

year too!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aaron Anderer, System Operator                system@spectrx.saigon.com

SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1 408 252 1005              szebra!spectrx!system          

NO MORE BUSH!          Write in Cuomo for '92!        NO MORE BUSH!

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!csn!scicom!paranet!f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG!Andre.Eichner

From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Our History with the Pleiadians

Message-ID: <110256.299F9478@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 13 Feb 92 22:10:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 2:245/10 - FidoNet Berli, Berlin 41

Lines: 18


Hello Iain!


In a msg of <07 Feb 92>, Iain Jameson writes to All:


 IJ> Present Homo Sapians left Africa around 100,000 years ago.

 IJ> Lucy was a Lyrian??

 IJ> How long was the search? Sounds like several billion years. An awfully

 IJ> long time to be looking for a home. Patient race?


From what source is this information? Very intersting...


cheers

   Andre


--  

Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Andre.Eichner@f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!csn!scicom!paranet!f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG!Andre.Eichner

From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Our History with the Pleiadians

Message-ID: <110257.299F947A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 13 Feb 92 22:16:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 2:245/10 - FidoNet Berli, Berlin 41

Lines: 16


Hello Patrick!


In a msg of <07 Feb 92>, Patrick Brosnan writes to All:


 >> I obtained the following information from several books of Star-Borne

 >> which I looked at during the 11:11 last month...


Can you tell me some about 11:11? I heared many people where in the pyramids...


cheers

   Andre


--  

Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Andre.Eichner@f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!d75!awdprime!woofer.austin.ibm.com!jlpicard

From: jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: I know what's real, don't I?

Message-ID: <16279@awdprime.UUCP>

Date: 17 Feb 92 12:14:52 GMT

References: <6780@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> <1992Feb12.002547.23168@cadence.com>

Sender: news@awdprime.UUCP

Reply-To: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com

Organization: IBM Object Technology Products

Lines: 16


jasonp@cs.uq.oz.au ( Jason Pouflis) writes:

> Look into something called night terrors.

> If I remember correctly,

> This is a natural function of the autonomous nervous system,

> to wake you so that you can start thinking/breathing/functioning again.


I missed the original posting, but if you're referring to what I

think you are, find a book on sleep disorders and check out something

called sleep paralysis.


Craig

-- "Democracy is the theory that  Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --

--  the common people know what         Internet: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com --

--  they want, and deserve to get     Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com --

--  it good and hard" - H. L. Mencken               VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 --

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!haught

From: haught@tigger.jvnc.net (Darrell Haught)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?

Message-ID: <1992Feb18.143546.4883@tigger.jvnc.net>

Date: 18 Feb 92 14:35:46 GMT

References: <5614@npal.rn.com>

Sender: news@tigger.jvnc.net (Zee News Genie)

Organization: JvNCnet, Princeton University, NJ

Lines: 14

Originator: haught@nisc.jvnc.net

Nntp-Posting-Host: nisc.jvnc.net


In article <5614@npal.rn.com> dcook@npal.rn.com writes:

>

>Argh!!! I missed it!!!

>

>Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the

>*stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle

>flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the

>astronauts?  - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!

>-- 

I would be interested in finding out more about it. What news station

was it on and what State.


Darrell

haught@tigger.jvnc.net

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ub4b!info-sparc1.info.ucl.ac.be!Meessen@slig.ucl.ac.be

From: Meessen@slig.ucl.ac.be (Christophe Meessen)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be>

Date: 14 Feb 92 09:22:16 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz>

Sender: news@info.ucl.ac.be (News Administrator)

Organization: Universite Catholique de Louvain (Belgium)

Lines: 14

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4480 sci.space:26733 sci.skeptic:20706 alt.paranormal:4396

Nntp-Posting-Host: 130.104.58.50



We don't have enough information yet to DECIDE if this pattern is 

artificial or natural although there is presumption of an artificial

nature of the pattern.


To take this decision we need more information. We (or they) have to

decide to collect the required information. This decision depends on

the 'pro' and 'against' of collecting the information and the resulting

decision.


Does any one know what are the against ? I mean real technical or financial

problems. Is it realy just politic ? 


Chris.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Steelo

From: Steelo@unknown.address (Steelo)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16c6d45f@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 9 Feb 92 19:00:47 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 4

In-Reply-To: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)



You are lying.....I be fully alien, I just never told you.  (Hell, and you didn't even guess!!!)


---

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Scourge

From: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: This Forum

Message-ID: <16c6b185@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 9 Feb 92 16:32:05 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 4

In-Reply-To: All@unknown.address (All)



 I am afraid that this forum is void, as I am the only alien on this planet and no others will be here for approx. another 16 years...


---

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Alan.Hunter

From: Alan.Hunter@unknown.address (Alan Hunter)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16c704fe@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 9 Feb 92 22:28:14 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 3

In-Reply-To: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)


well YOU said it!!!  You are the only alien..


---

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Alan.Hunter

From: Alan.Hunter@unknown.address (Alan Hunter)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16c70514@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 9 Feb 92 22:28:36 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 3

In-Reply-To: Steelo@unknown.address (Steelo)


oh no.. what next????


---

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Scourge

From: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16c5e972@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 9 Feb 92 02:18:26 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 4

In-Reply-To: Steelo@unknown.address (Steelo)



 You can't be, otherwise my computer would have told me! What planet are you from then?


---

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Scourge

From: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16c5e98b@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 9 Feb 92 02:18:51 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 4

In-Reply-To: Alan.Hunter@unknown.address (Alan Hunter)



 It's true.


---

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Amoeba

From: Amoeba@unknown.address (Amoeba)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16c6348f@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 9 Feb 92 07:38:55 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 4

In-Reply-To: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)


Well at least I LOOK like an alien!

Amoeba


---

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Scourge

From: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16c9baa2@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 11 Feb 92 23:47:46 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 4

In-Reply-To: Amoeba@unknown.address (Amoeba)



 And your mother dresses you funny.


---

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Scourge

From: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16c921d7@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 11 Feb 92 12:55:51 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 4

In-Reply-To: Amoeba@unknown.address (Amoeba)



 I am a human alien. You're just funny looking...


---

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Amoeba

From: Amoeba@unknown.address (Amoeba)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16c9ac4b@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 11 Feb 92 22:46:35 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 4

In-Reply-To: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)


humph.

Amoeba


---

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu!v070qg5d

From: v070qg5d@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Eric M Chmiel)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?

Keywords: stolen videotapes NASA

Message-ID: <1992Feb18.164036.24483@acsu.buffalo.edu>

Date: 18 Feb 92 16:42:00 GMT

References: <5614@npal.rn.com> <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>

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In article <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>, system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer) writes...

>dcook@npal.rn.com writes:

>> 

>> Argh!!! I missed it!!!

>> 

>> Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the

>> *stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle

>> flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the

>> astronauts?  - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!

>> -- 

>I say if anyone has those on the net, that they should digitize the photos 

>and post them, so the government cannot quiet it.  It would be spread all 

>over the world and expose the government for what it is.  In an election 

>year too!


   I've heard of this type of thing before.  On an Apollo mission (can't

remember which one) they photographed a small object which turned out to be 

a piece of space debris.  At the time, they did not know this, and one 

astronaut said they were seeing an unidentified flying object.  This was

true, incidentally, because when the air force or astronauts speak of

unidentified flying objecs, they mean just that: objects which are flying

that have not been positively identified.  They don't mean alien spacecraft

from another galaxy piloted by a race of superhuman beings.

   Probably, the same kind of thing will happen with these latest "stolen

photos".

                                    -Eric

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From: nikos@cs.cornell.edu (Nikos P. Pitsianis)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Crop Circles

Message-ID: <1992Feb16.182031.9159@cs.cornell.edu>

Date: 16 Feb 92 18:20:31 GMT

References: <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> <2417@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>

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In article <2417@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, dschiff@copper.denver.colorado.edu (David Michael Schiff) writes:

|> [deleted]

|> 

|> But, as Hawkins said, the fun part is thinking them up. 

|> Can you (or anyone else) think of the fifth theorem which is

|> the generalized form of the first four?

|>


One possible extrapolation is : 


  For a regular n-agon, the ratio of the areas of the circumscribed circle

  and the inscribed circle is given by the formula :

                                        1

                                  ------------

                                             2

                                  cos(1/n Pi)


|> 

|> It would also be nice to know how he discovered the whole numbers

|> which match the ratios of the diatonic scale.

|> 

|> Regards,

|> Dave 

|>  


For n = 3 and 4 we have whole numbers. Some other "interesting" numbers are:

                                         1

                          n = 5, -----------------

                                       1/2       2

                                 (1/4 5    + 1/4)


                          n = 6, 4/3


                                      8

                          n = 10, --------

                                        1/2

                                   5 + 5


                                          4

                       n = 12, ----------------------

                                     1/2 2       1/2

                               (2 + 3   )  (2 - 3   )



The whole thing is trivial, you shouldn't give any more attention

to the subject of "theorems" and Mr Hawkins.


-- Nikos

______________________________________________________________________________


   Nikos P Pitsianis                 Internet : nikos@cs.cornell.edu    

   Cornell University                   Phone : (607) 255 3042          

   4130 Upson Hall, Dept of Comp Sc       FAX : (607) 255 4428          

   Ithaca, NY 14853                      Home : (607) 257 4579          

______________________________________________________________________________

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From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <1992Feb16.203759.22078@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

Date: 16 Feb 92 20:37:59 GMT

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In article <1992Feb15.031707.29226@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>

>    All well and good except if you're looking for life you have

>to eliminate all the stars younger than about 3 Gyr...  That limits

>things quite a bit...  Exorcising the stars with low probabilities

>(from the other contraints...)...


Why? Didn't unicellular life show up within 1 gyr of the 

Earth's formation?


James Nicoll

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spdcc!rdonahue

From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <1992Feb18.221238.2596@spdcc.com>

Date: 18 Feb 92 22:12:38 GMT

References: <9202142304.AA28308@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> <1992Feb15.031707.29226@spdcc.com> <1992Feb16.203759.22078@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

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jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:


>>    All well and good except if you're looking for life you have

>>to eliminate all the stars younger than about 3 Gyr...  That limits

>>things quite a bit...  Exorcising the stars with low probabilities

>>(from the other contraints...)...


> Why? Didn't unicellular life show up within 1 gyr of the 

>Earth's formation?


Unicellular life isn't very interesting to talk to... :-)

For the purposes of SETI-like investigations, there isn't much stock in

going for the intermediate-age stars.  In terms of answering "does life

exist" - sure, but you have to figure out a scheme whereby you can determine

that the unicellular life is there.  Outside of going there and looking,

you're sort of stuck. 


Not that surveying the older stars are any picnic either...


Bob

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From: Amoeba@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Amoeba)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16d173df@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 17 Feb 92 20:23:59 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

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In-Reply-To: Scourge@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)


microorganisms don`t have eyes.

Amoeba


---

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From: Amoeba@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Amoeba)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16ce145a@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 15 Feb 92 06:59:38 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

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In-Reply-To: Scourge@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)


well that`s not my fault

Amoeba


---

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From: Scourge@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16ce672c@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 15 Feb 92 12:53:00 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

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In-Reply-To: Amoeba@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Amoeba)



 And your eyes are too close together!


---

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From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Date: 18 Feb 92 23:43:17 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be>

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Meessen@slig.ucl.ac.be (Christophe Meessen) writes:

>To take this decision we need more information. We (or they) have to

>decide to collect the required information. This decision depends on

>the 'pro' and 'against' of collecting the information and the resulting

>decision.


>Does any one know what are the against ? I mean real technical or financial

>problems. Is it realy just politic ? 


>Chris.


Well, there are technical issues, like it's hard to build a spacecraft to

go to Mars.  There are political issues, - politicians want to spend money

on other things.  There are also implementaion issues, like the fact that  

there's a whole planet to study, and the face will just have to wait it's

turn.  And frnakly, I think NASA doesn't want to make a big deal about 

observing the face because it looks kinda stupid in the professional community.

(and can you imagine telling congress you need $500 million because someone 

thinks aliens left a messsage for us :).


However, I think many face activists have the wrong impression.  NASA was 

planning to take a picture of the face last I heard.  just beacuse they don't

make it their top priority doesn't mean that they are conspiring to hide 

evidence.


Josh

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From: randall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (randall embry)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 00:25:55 GMT

References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

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I had this dream about six months ago...   I was in a fairly open place,

and surrounded by people who seemed a little perplexed & angry that I 

didn't remember them.  They told me they had met me several times

before, and that they were real people like me who were dreaming right

now.  It seemed the goal was to try to establish contact with one

another back in "the real world."  My brilliant suggestion was to write

someone's phone number on my hand, so I guess I blew it.  It seemed like

a fairly lucid dream; I remember sitting at a table at a restaurant, and

when a waiter came and asked me to leave if I wasn't going to pay, I

said something like "leave me alone this is my dream" and everyone

laughed.  


I was quite impressed with my ability to manufacture this dream, and it

does cause me to speculate whether something like this is possible.  I

was reminded of it a few days ago when I had a dream something like

this: Again I was in an open place, showing some people these really

bent up eyeglasses I had.  I closed my eyes, and when I opened them,

everyone was gone, so I turned around and saw a woman standing there

who blew me off when I spoke to her.  I then said "Listen, this is my

dream and you have no existence outside of it."  I then gave her a 

command that I am not proud enough of to post; however, she responded

by driving away on a motorcycle. 


In the book "The Road Less Travelled," the author (Peck?) cites a 1972

university experiment that "proved" subjects could project images to

nearby sleeping subjects.  Anyone heard about this?


Randall

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!astro.as.utexas.edu!defonso

From: defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord

Message-ID: <66941@ut-emx.uucp>

Date: 19 Feb 92 00:09:54 GMT

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In article <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu> jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:

>By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a

>"face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and 

>accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to 

>Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.

> --Tog

>

Probably the same way natural processes can make clouds into animal

shapes, or rock formations in coastal areas take on human profiles. 

I don't think there is any reason to believe that the images of the

Mars face represent anything beyond our own terrestrial experience.

After all, it is the image of *shadows* that appears like a face, 

and NOT the rock formations, as you suggest.


There are other reasons to explore the solar system than simply to

look for images of ourselves. Let us not be so self-centered....



-- 

Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In Search Of...a good .sig **** "When in doubt, tell the truth." - Twain

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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From: ijameson@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Iain Jameson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Our History with the Pleiadians

Message-ID: <6325@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>

Date: 19 Feb 92 02:23:18 GMT

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In article <110256.299F9478@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Andre.Eichner@f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner) writes:

> Hello Iain!

>

> In a msg of <07 Feb 92>, Iain Jameson writes to All:

>  IJ> Present Homo Sapians left Africa around 100,000 years ago.

>  IJ> Lucy was a Lyrian??

>  IJ> How long was the search? Sounds like several billion years. An awfully

>  IJ> long time to be looking for a home. Patient race?

>

> From what source is this information? Very intersting...

>    Andre


The 100,000 years bit is (should be) common knowledge.

My questions were directed to the author of the original post -

It was so full of inaccuracies, that I had to question his

data. His time sequences were way out.


Since he has not responded, I assume that he realises his error,

but is to shy to respond.


Iain

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From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au>

Date: 19 Feb 92 02:33:08 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com>

Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA

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In article <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com>, case@infonode.ingr.com (Bill Case) writes:

> In article <5054@otc.otca.oz>, siri@otc.otca.oz (Siri Hewa) writes:

>> But Mars face

>> stick out like a sore thumb on this picture. I think only way to get proof of

>> any sort is to go there in person?.

>      ^^^^^^

> I haven't seen it,  but I know Italy looks alot like a boot.

> If I'm paying the tax bill, what I favor is a robot IMAX camera where

> the wind sounds are recorded in 8 channel,  dolby,  THX, etc.  If we did 

> that,  then millions could come close to "going" to Mars,  without anyone

> actually going.  We have the pictures from Apollo,  but they don't convey 

> the awesome feeling of standing on the moon.  I want the experience.


Y O U    C A N - 

All you have to do is watch the MARS NAVIGATOR database on the Macintosh PC - 

a touch-screen based videodisk product which is based on the Viking 3 surface 

pictures of the Mars landscape. I think it was Industrial Light and Magic who

added the 16-bit stereo sound and the 3-d enhancement of the fly-over footage.

Does this give a realistic effect or what! especially if seen on an 8' screen

and through BOSE speakers. A bit StarWars like but user controlled, even down 

to the point where the crew say to the pilot (you) things like "look out!" and

"close call" as you skim over the surface, dive into a canyon or swing around

a large volcano (20 miles across at the base). No Mars Face though :-(

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua

From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.034306.3873@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

Date: 19 Feb 92 03:43:06 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs> <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <66941@ut-emx.uucp>

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defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes:


|>There are other reasons to explore the solar system than simply to

|>look for images of ourselves. Let us not be so self-centered....


as someone has pointed out, mars observor launches this year, and it has

a resolution of 3 meters ... so we'll know by '94 one way or the other.


josh

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From: geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz (Geoff McCaughan)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <FRi9FB3w164w@satori.equinox.gen.nz>

Date: 19 Feb 92 05:55:57 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue>

Organization: The Equinox Network CHCH NZ (Node SATORI)

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behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:


> I had posted  the PYRAMIDS.JPG picture in various news-groups.

> I'm just wondering what You think about the Pyramids on mars ??

> Did You already take a look at it and what do You think about it ?

> Only optical delusion or proof of soemthing unexplainable ?

> Let me know !


Have you ever seen a ventifact?


Geoff - Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 (4 Lines)

Email:  geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz - or - MCCAUGHAN_G@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

        "If I post something lucid, is that satorial eloquence?"

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll

From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 05:33:14 GMT

References: <9202142304.AA28308@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> <1992Feb15.031707.29226@spdcc.com> <1992Feb16.203759.22078@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.221238.2596@spdcc.com>

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In article <1992Feb18.221238.2596@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

>>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>

>>>    All well and good except if you're looking for life you have

>>>to eliminate all the stars younger than about 3 Gyr...  That limits

>>>things quite a bit...  Exorcising the stars with low probabilities

>>>(from the other contraints...)...

>

>> Why? Didn't unicellular life show up within 1 gyr of the 

>>Earth's formation?

>

> Unicellular life isn't very interesting to talk to... :-)

>For the purposes of SETI-like investigations, there isn't much stock in

>going for the intermediate-age stars.  In terms of answering "does life

>exist" - sure, but you have to figure out a scheme whereby you can determine

>that the unicellular life is there.  Outside of going there and looking,

>you're sort of stuck. 

>

> Not that surveying the older stars are any picnic either...


I imagine that Lovelock would suggest looking for worlds whose

atmosphere is in what should be chemical disequilibrium. Lots of O2,

for example, suggests there must be something producing it continually.


James Nicoll

Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!apple!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer

From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com>

Date: 19 Feb 92 06:22:05 GMT

References: <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

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In article <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> randall embry <randall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:


>In the book "The Road Less Travelled," the author (Peck?) cites a 1972

>university experiment that "proved" subjects could project images to

>nearby sleeping subjects.  Anyone heard about this?


And in his book "People of the Lie", Peck "proved" that some people

who appear to have mental illness are really possessed by devils.

(And this guy is a psychologist!!)

-- 

  

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

  

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",

      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!astro.as.utexas.edu!defonso

From: defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <66960@ut-emx.uucp>

Date: 19 Feb 92 06:19:01 GMT

References: <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp

Distribution: na

Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

Lines: 82


In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...

>>In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>

>Incidentally, are you aware that Vallee became interested in studying this

>phenomenon when he found astronomers destroying observation data of UFO

>events that they could not explain?


I'm interested to know what type of observation data astronomers had

that could possibly have contributed to UFO research in the first place.


[ other deletia ]


>>So, all you have to do is to convince astronomers, and other scientists,

>>that studying UFOs is going to teach us about *anything real*, apart

>>from human self-deception!!

>

>No, not necessarily.  The only people that need convincing are those who

>might be inquisitive enough to want to know what the phenomenon really,

>truly is.   


Past experience has shown that many times, the phenomenon is something

quite explainable in terms of our current knowledge, i.e. weather,

hoaxing, etc. Because of this, there is not much enthusiasm among

scientists to pursue the subject when so much *real* science can be

done in the meantime.


I presume that the people who are already "working" on the problem

will let us know if they ever come up with anything substantive.


>

>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth

>about this phenomenon need apply.


Only those who have the time and money to spend on wild goose

chases, basing conclusions on anecdotal information and ignoring

the problem of unrepeatability need apply. 


>BTW: Has it ever occurred to you that you may be limiting the sciences by

>allowing the study of only those things that would contribute to _known_

>fields (such as astronomy, biology, etc.)?  Is it not possible that a

>study of the _phenomena_ may yield an entirely _new_ science?


I for one wouldn't call astronomy a "known" science, although I

think I know what you mean. I agree with you in principle, actually - 

but until there is at least some measure of real recurrence,

I don't think it's very sensible at all to pursue that avenue.

It involves an unjustifiable allocation of resources that I cannot

accept.

>

>Don't misunderstand me.  I'm not implying that we should study the 

>phenomenon for the sake of creating a new science.  But, by limiting


There's nothing wrong with *developing* a new science; unless

you're trying to make one where there is no scientific method

of inquiry to begin with.


>our research to those things we already know about or we are sure will

>contribute only to _known_ fields is, well...., limiting.


When the possibility for real science arises in regard to the

"UFO phenomenon", I think you'll find a great many people

interested in the topic. 


>

>Jim Graham - Scepticus Realisticus

>

>        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

>                          Neither do they speak for me.

> ______________________________________________________________________

>| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

>|           dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu                        |

>| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |

>|            (812) 334-0418, 24hrs.                                    |

>|______________________________________________________________________|



-- 

Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In Search Of...a good .sig **** "When in doubt, tell the truth." - Twain

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!ux.acs.umn.edu!csd1227

From: csd1227@ux.acs.umn.edu (Greg Larson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.080717.11475@ux.acs.umn.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 08:07:17 GMT

References: <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <66960@ut-emx.uucp>

Distribution: na

Organization: University of Minnesota

Lines: 28


In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp> defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes:

>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...

>>>In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>

>There's nothing wrong with *developing* a new science; unless

>you're trying to make one where there is no scientific method

>of inquiry to begin with.

>

>>our research to those things we already know about or we are sure will

>>contribute only to _known_ fields is, well...., limiting.

>

>When the possibility for real science arises in regard to the

>"UFO phenomenon", I think you'll find a great many people

>interested in the topic. 

>

>Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)


You are, of course, very wrong in that observation is an extremely important

part of science.  Much of current UFO research has to do with recording

events, i.e., building up a history of the phenomena.  If/when it does become

obvious that UFOs are something quite real and amazing, the information

gathered so far will be enormously useful.  Surely the relatively small

number of people actively involved is a small price to pay for potentially

enormous future benefits.  Your attitude represents the most unscientific

kind of thinking imagineable.


Greg.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin

From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: A Survey!

Message-ID: <110563.29A1ADE3@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 18 Feb 92 21:52:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO

Lines: 10


Donald,


What is the purpose of your survey, i.e., objectives?


Mike


--  

Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!behse

From: behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space,sci.skeptic,sci.physics

Subject: Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!

Summary: mars face

Keywords: mars face

Message-ID: <behse.698489924@tubue>

Date: 19 Feb 92 08:58:44 GMT

Sender: news@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de (News  Manager)

Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin

Lines: 140

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4510 alt.paranormal:4405 sci.space:26789 sci.skeptic:20777 sci.physics:17731

Nntp-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de


Hello,


I just have posted the 2 missing pictures from the book:

Leben auf dem Mars(live on  mars) by Joh. von Buttlar,


to the following newsgroup:

alt.binaries.pictures.misc


Go with Your nn-newsreader to this group, tag the 2 part files

and give the command:

:decode


Then the newsreader automatically decodes the uuencoded JPEG-pictures

to Your directory.


Then get any JPEG viewer or JPEG to GIF-converter to view them.


Here comes an info courtesty of Tom Lane of the independant JPEG-group,

which describes where to get JPEG software:




If you are looking for "canned" software, viewers, etc:


There is not a lot of pre-built, no-thought-required JPEG software available

yet.  This short list will no doubt grow with time.


For X Windows, John Bradley's XV version 2.00 is an excellent JPEG/GIF viewer.

It's available for FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu or grip.cis.upenn.edu.  The

file is called 'xv-2.00.tar.Z' and is located in the 'contrib' directory on

export or the 'pub' directory on grip.  XV's only real shortcoming is that

it does not fully exploit 24-bit displays (it reduces all images to 8 bits).

If you have a 24-bit display you will get better results from "xloadimage",

which is also available from export, file contrib/xloadimage.3.01.tar.Z.

Version 3.01 does not read JPEG files, but it will read the PPM files put

out by the free JPEG converter described below.  There is also a patched

version called "xli" (see files xli.* in same directory) that does read JPEG

directly.  However, xli is a quick hack rather than an official release;

caveat user.  Another good choice for X Windows is John Cristy's ImageMagick

package, also available from export, file contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z.  The

viewer included in this package handles 24-bit displays correctly; for

colormapped displays, it does better (though slower) color quantization

than XV.


For MS-DOS, Handmade Software offers two (rather pricy) shareware programs:

Image Alchemy and GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF (contact hsi@netcom.com for details).  The

PC versions of these programs are available for FTP from wuarchive.wustl.edu,

directory mirrors/msdos/graphics, files alchmy15.zip and gif2jpg5.zip; also

from SIMTEL20 and its other mirror sites.  (Image Alchemy is also available

as an executable for Sun Unix machines, but I don't know where to find it.)

GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF only perform JPEG<=>GIF format conversion.  Image Alchemy

converts files between these and many other formats, and can also display

images on some types of hardware.  The display option is pretty limited,

so you'll still want a separate viewer program.  (WARNING: GIF2JPG produces

a proprietary file format unless you specify -j.  Be sure to use -j if you

want to exchange JPEG files with other Usenet users.  For that matter, it's

not real clear that you should be posting JPEG files made from GIFs; see

section 5.)


For the Macintosh, Storm Technology has released a free program that can

decode and view JPEG images (though not create them).  This is called

Picture Decompress.  Make sure you get version 2.0.1 or later; earlier

versions are not compatible with JFIF file format.  This program can be

FTPed from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, directory /info-mac/app, file

picture-decompress-201.hqx.  You'll also need a tool for adjusting file type

codes; set the type of a downloaded image file to 'JPEG' to allow Picture

Decompress to open it.


If none of the above fits your situation, you can obtain and compile the

free JPEG converter program described below.  You'll also need a viewer

program, and if your viewer only handles GIF files, you'll want a separate

color quantization program (we recommend ppmquant from the PBMPLUS package

for Unix machines; on PCs, try Piclab).  This last requirement will go away

with the next release of the free code.


There are numerous commercial JPEG offerings, with more popping up every

day.  I recommend that you not spend money on one of these unless you find

the available free or shareware software vastly too slow.  In that case,

purchase a hardware-assisted product.  Ask pointed questions about whether

the product complies with the final JPEG standard and about whether it can

handle the JFIF file format; many of the earliest commercial releases are

not and never will be compatible with anyone else's files.



If you are looking for source code to work with:


Free, portable C code for JPEG compression is available from the Independent

JPEG Group, which I lead.  A package containing our source code,

documentation, and some small test files is available from several places.

The "official" archive site for this source code is ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9

or 192.48.96.9).  Look under directory /graphics/jpeg; the current release

is jpegsrc.v2.tar.Z.  (This is a compressed TAR file; don't forget to

retrieve in binary mode.)  You can retrieve this file by FTP or UUCP.  Folks

in Europe may find it easier to FTP from nic.funet.fi (see directory

pub/graphics/programs/jpeg).  The source code is also available on

CompuServe, in the GRAPHSUPPORT forum (GO PICS), library 10, as jpsrc2.zip.


The free JPEG code provides conversion between JPEG "JFIF" format and image

files in PBMPLUS PPM, Utah RLE, Truevision Targa, and GIF file formats.

(However, output to GIF format is not of high quality at present; ditto for

colormapped Targa and RLE formats.)  The core compression and decompression

modules can easily be reused in other programs, such as image viewers.  The

package is highly portable; we have tested it on many machines ranging from

PCs to Crays.


We have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use.

Companies are welcome to use it as the basis for JPEG-related products.

We do not ask a royalty, although we do ask for an acknowledgement in

product literature (see the README file in the distribution for details).

We hope to make this software industrial-quality --- although, as with

anything that's free, we offer no warranty and accept no liability.


The Independent JPEG Group is a volunteer organization; if you'd like to

contribute to improving our software, you are welcome to join.


If you are not reasonably handy at configuring and installing portable C

programs, you may have some difficulty installing the free source code.

Steve Davis (strat@cis.ksu.edu) has volunteered to maintain an archive of

pre-built executable versions of the free JPEG code for various machines.

His FTP archive is at procyon.cis.ksu.edu (129.130.10.80 -- this number is

due to change soon); look under /pub/JPEG to see what he currently has.

(The administrators of this system ask that FTP traffic be limited to

non-prime hours.)  This archive is not maintained by the Independent JPEG

Group, and files in it may not represent the latest source code.




For more information about JPEG in general or the free JPEG software in

particular, contact the Independent JPEG Group at jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net.


-- 

tom lane

organizer, Independent JPEG Group

Internet: tgl@cs.cmu.edu BITNET: tgl%cs.cmu.edu@carnegie




Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for

Decentral Energy Research

email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?

Message-ID: <jms.07dr@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 18 Feb 92 18:53:12 GMT

References: <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 49


In article <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) writes:

>Asteroids can be fatal to radio careers to. It seems that former

>science advisor to radio talk show host Chuck Harder, Richard

>Hoagland, embarrassed Harder on the air, thereby severing his

>weekly spot on Harders show. Harder had been speaking publicly on

>his program about an alleged asteroid that had been, according to

>what appeared to be a New York Times story from 1977 speeding its way to

>Earth, making what the story claimed were course changes. The Times article

>duly quoted purported scientists, and sounded very legit; it turned out that

>when the New York Times Index was checked, along with microfiche copies from

>that date and several days after, no such article could be found. It was

>someone's very real looking fabrication.


It wasn't an intentional hoax (except for the idiot who circulated it as

real, whoever he was.)  It's page 101 of a fictional book titled "The

Extraterrestrial Report", by Richard Siegel, John H. Butterfield, and

Jean-Claude Suares, Copyright 1978, published by A&W Publishers, Inc., 95

Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016.  Library of Congress Catalog Card

Number 77-91031, ISBN # 0-89104-093-5.  (Just in case anyone wants to

check.)


The book contains a number of fake government documents, fake magazine

articles, and fake newspaper articles.  The government documents and

magazine articles are obvious satire.  The fake New York Times articles

don't have a satirical tone, unfortunately.  (Unless, considering the

publication date, the name "Lucas Hamill" is a reference to the movie "Star

Wars".)


I've often wondered whether the book could have been the inspiration for

a large part of the conspiracy scenario as we know it today.  It starts

with a document found in the Truman Library in which Truman is worried

about the aliens, then jumps to the present where a SETI team makes contact

with aliens.  The Federal Agency for Interstellar Contact (FAIC,

obviously) is formed to take control of the situation.  They announce

that the signal was a hoax and force the shutdown of the SETI facility,

while secretly continuing work on it themselves.  FAIC is a highly

secretive group, even President Carter doesn't have a clue about it.

Eventually the aliens, who are friendly, land and sign a treaty with us.

We grant them the right to fly through our solar system, and in return they

educate us about the universe.  They warn us about a parasitic race who are

on their way to Earth with a large spaceship to destroy us.  Eventually

astronomers detect this ship, which is covered up by claiming that it's an

asteroid.  Then the race is on to figure out a way to stop it.


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?

Message-ID: <jms.07dt@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 18 Feb 92 19:05:27 GMT

References: <5614@npal.rn.com>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 31


In article <5614@npal.rn.com> dcook@npal.rn.com writes:

>Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the

>*stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle

>flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the

>astronauts?  - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!


I'd be interested in it too!  I heard bits of a similar story on the

Fidonet UFO echo a few weeks ago.  The story I heard said that a spaceship

shot at the shuttle with some sort of beam, and the shuttle had to get out

of the way.  There's a tape showing the alleged incident (in fact, the

story I heard said it was "released" rather than "stolen"), but I haven't

seen it.  It was aired on a program called "ET Monitor", which I think is

on some sort of Christian satellite network but I'm not sure.


The version I heard doesn't say anything about 35 ships, just one.  Also,

if what I heard about the shuttle dodging some sort of beam weapon is

correct, the whole story's integrity is suspect.  Unlike every SF movie

ever made, you can't see things coming at light speed!  (Although it's

possible that it was just phrased awkwardly; maybe the shuttle had to dodge

the *spacecraft*, and the beam missed or was just a warning shot.)


I haven't heard anything about the audio on the tape.  There's an old story

about audio-only transmission from a shuttle that spotted an alien

spaceship, but as likely as not it was a hoax by someone on the ground.

(Shuttle audio is rebroadcast on various ham stations.)


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham

From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.142842.10181@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 15:27:01 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)

Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu

Distribution: na

Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana

Lines: 31

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4513 sci.space:26792 sci.skeptic:20779 alt.paranormal:4406

News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu


In article <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes...

>turn.  And frnakly, I think NASA doesn't want to make a big deal about 

>observing the face because it looks kinda stupid in the professional community.

>(and can you imagine telling congress you need $500 million because someone 

>thinks aliens left a messsage for us :).

>However, I think many face activists have the wrong impression.  NASA was 

>planning to take a picture of the face last I heard.  just beacuse they don't

>make it their top priority doesn't mean that they are conspiring to hide 

>evidence.

> Josh


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, with references, but I believe that

_congress_ gave NASA a _mandate_ to take pictures of Cydonia with the

Mars Observer.


It was not NASA's decision.



Jim Graham 


        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

                          Neither do they speak for me.

 ______________________________________________________________________

| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

|           dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu                        |

| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |

|            (812) 334-0418, 24hrs.                                    |

|______________________________________________________________________|

Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham

From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 15:38:32 GMT

References: <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <66960@ut-emx.uucp>

Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)

Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu

Distribution: na

Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana

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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu


In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...

>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...

>>>In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>

>>Incidentally, are you aware that Vallee became interested in studying this

>>phenomenon when he found astronomers destroying observation data of UFO

>>events that they could not explain?

>I'm interested to know what type of observation data astronomers had

>that could possibly have contributed to UFO research in the first place.


_Unidentified_ flying objects comes to mind.


>[ other deletia ]

>>>So, all you have to do is to convince astronomers, and other scientists,

>>>that studying UFOs is going to teach us about *anything real*, apart

>>>from human self-deception!!

>>

>>No, not necessarily.  The only people that need convincing are those who

>>might be inquisitive enough to want to know what the phenomenon really,

>>truly is.   

>Past experience has shown that many times, the phenomenon is something

>quite explainable in terms of our current knowledge, i.e. weather,

>hoaxing, etc. Because of this, there is not much enthusiasm among


Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.


>scientists to pursue the subject when so much *real* science can be

>done in the meantime.


"Real" science?  Define this in such a way that it directly contradicts

what I have been claiming.


>I presume that the people who are already "working" on the problem

>will let us know if they ever come up with anything substantive.

>>

>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth

>>about this phenomenon need apply.

>Only those who have the time and money to spend on wild goose

>chases, basing conclusions on anecdotal information and ignoring

>the problem of unrepeatability need apply. 


My statement about "truth" stands.


What you are asking for is "repeatability" of a _particular_ sighting.


What I have been talking about is the _phenomenon_ in a collective sense.


That is undeniable.  That is worth studying.  


Simple question:  You want repeatability.  Show me how you can, in a 

laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in

a nuclear fission reaction.  Show me a real, honest to goodness

black hole.


Then, show me how I can repeat the same experiments and get the same

results.


The bottom line is that you can't.  You can show me effects that point

to these things, but you can't _show_ me these "things".


In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.


Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists.  Evidence for a particular "UFO"

(whatever that may be) does not.


Now, let me rephrase the above....


"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists.  Evidence that

atom #1E37 is going to split does not.


Do you see my point?


>>BTW: Has it ever occurred to you that you may be limiting the sciences by

>>allowing the study of only those things that would contribute to _known_

>>fields (such as astronomy, biology, etc.)?  Is it not possible that a

>>study of the _phenomena_ may yield an entirely _new_ science?

>I for one wouldn't call astronomy a "known" science, although I

>think I know what you mean. I agree with you in principle, actually - 

>but until there is at least some measure of real recurrence,

>I don't think it's very sensible at all to pursue that avenue.

>It involves an unjustifiable allocation of resources that I cannot

>accept.


Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).

It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters.  If you're

in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.


>>Don't misunderstand me.  I'm not implying that we should study the 

>>phenomenon for the sake of creating a new science.  But, by limiting

>There's nothing wrong with *developing* a new science; unless

>you're trying to make one where there is no scientific method

>of inquiry to begin with.


Such as?  You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of

the UFO phenomenon.  That is blatantly false.  Would you care to provide

evidence of this?


>>our research to those things we already know about or we are sure will

>>contribute only to _known_ fields is, well...., limiting.

>When the possibility for real science arises in regard to the

>"UFO phenomenon", I think you'll find a great many people

>interested in the topic. 


The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time.  Unfortunately,

it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because

of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject.  What I

find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the

_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current

SETI research.  That is absurd.


So don't preach to me about "repeatability".


>Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)


Jim Graham 


        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

                          Neither do they speak for me.

 ______________________________________________________________________

| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

|           dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu                        |

| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |

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|______________________________________________________________________|

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From: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <GERRY.92Feb19100613@onion.cmu.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 15:06:13 GMT

References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Reply-To: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)

Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU

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Nntp-Posting-Host: onion.frc.ri.cmu.edu

In-Reply-To: randall embry's message of Tue, 18 Feb 1992 19:25:55 -050


Randall,

Wake up!  Your still dreaming (amd confusing fact with fantasy).


--

Gerry Roston (gerry@cs.cmu.edu) | II - A well regulated Militia, being

Field Robotics Center,          | necessary to the security of a free State,

Carnegie Mellon University      | the right of the people to keep and bear

Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | Arms, shall not be infringed.

(412) 268-3856                  | 

                                | 

The opinions expressed are mine | 

and do not reflect the official | 

position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | 

or any other organization.      | 

Path: ns-mx!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!f3w

From: f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Gellis)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic

Subject: New Topic, or an Old One: Mass Drivers

Message-ID: <36709@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 16:00:59 GMT

Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors

Organization: Purdue University

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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4516 sci.space:26796 sci.skeptic:20784


Followup-To: 

Distribution: tub

Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

Keywords: 



Does anyone have any information or sources on mass drivers/linear

accelerators?


I am particularly interested in what might be called "anticipated

performance data"--how massive are they, what kind of payloads will they

move, what kind of power requirements are involved, what kind of acceleration

will we see (100 gees, 2500 gees?), and so on.  Also, any news or rumors

about research, planned experiments, etc.?


Thanks in advance.

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From: jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?

Keywords: stolen videotapes NASA

Message-ID: <16457@awdprime.UUCP>

Date: 19 Feb 92 14:44:17 GMT

References: <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com> <5614@npal.rn.com>

Sender: news@awdprime.UUCP

Reply-To: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com

Organization: IBM Object Technology Products

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> Argh!!! I missed it!!!

> Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the

> *stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle

> flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the

> astronauts?  - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!


Which nightly news are you referring to? Local? In what city? More

details, please!


Craig

-- "Democracy is the theory that  Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --

--  the common people know what         Internet: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com --

--  they want, and deserve to get     Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com --

--  it good and hard" - H. L. Mencken               VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 --

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From: twpunix@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Tim Parsons)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins

Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality

Keywords: mistake, UFOs, psi, creationism

Message-ID: <1011@bsu-cs.bsu.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 17:30:43 GMT

References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de>

Organization: Dept of CS Ball State University Muncie In

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We could call it "lack of rigorous adherence to the Scientific Method,"

but that doesn't quite roll off the tongue, now does it?

Examples are ubiquitous, though, whatever we call it.  This fallacy is 

the main point behind the scientific method, which uses controlled conditions

to try to eliminate extraneous explanations.


Tim Parsons

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From: frank@masscomp.westford.ccur.com (Frank Tredeau)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <62772@masscomp.westford.ccur.com>

Date: 19 Feb 92 18:18:45 GMT

References: <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Followup-To: sci.skeptic

Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford MA.

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In article <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> randall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (randall embry) writes:


>I had this dream about six months ago...   I was in a fairly open place,

>and surrounded by people who seemed a little perplexed & angry that I 

>didn't remember them.  They told me they had met me several times

>before, and that they were real people like me who were dreaming right

>now.  It seemed the goal was to try to establish contact with one

>another back in "the real world."  My brilliant suggestion was to write

>someone's phone number on my hand, so I guess I blew it.  It seemed like

>a fairly lucid dream; I remember sitting at a table at a restaurant, and

>when a waiter came and asked me to leave if I wasn't going to pay, I

>said something like "leave me alone this is my dream" and everyone

>laughed.  


That was no dream.  That place was New Hampshire.

And you are George Bush.


F

o

d

d

e

r


Frank Tredeau             Concurrent Computer Corp.

              sez me

Path: ns-mx!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona

From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage

Subject: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp>

Date: 19 Feb 92 18:35:45 GMT

Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL

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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4520 alt.conspiracy:12326 talk.religion.newage:9378



 This is one topic covered in a recent Liberator text by Hatonn that

 you might find interesting and a bit strong. "Hatonn" is a Pleiadian

 Space Commander and it is left up to you the reader to determine

 what is presented is valid or not. I make *no* claims on the material.

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------


  ** From Phoenix Liberator January 7, 1992 Volume XVII Number 12 **


  Topic:REPTILIANS AND LITTLE GRAYS 


  It is time I confirm and explain the presence of massive underground 

  systems throughout your globe--which are very "human" oriented and 

  occupied.  You will be told that these installations are headed and run 

  as a hostage situation--by aliens.  Reptilians and Little Grays. BS!  Are 

  there Reptilians and Little Grays present?  Indeed!  There are massive 

  numbers of them--all cloned, replicated and terrifying.  You will further 

  be told that they hold your government hostage.  More and deeper heaps of 

  lies--they are produced by the good-will dedication and greedy money 

  grubbing governments at the control of the Elite Committee of 300 who 

  operate out of Switzerland and headed by the Royal Crown of England. 

  These are the Satanic British Zionists originally known as the Serpent 

  People. This is exactly why the Reptilians will be presented to you as 

  the ones in control.  The Serpent is the symbol of Satan and these ones 

  have never even bothered to lie to you about their label.  


  Topic:UNEMPLOYED 


  Sit quietly for a minute and consider numbers with me, for as these 

  underground facilities are coming to finished status there are a lot of 

  suddenly available unemployed.  You are showing increased numbers of 

  unemployed NEW sign-ups of half a million a week.  You are talking now of 

  millions out of work--from where?  Yes, from all over, but WHY?  How many 

  people, say, in the area of Lancaster/Palmdale, California, might you 

  personally know who work in the aerospace industry wherein groups work on 

  items which are isolated and secret with penalty of death as reward for 

  tattling?  Almost all is done on "need to know" basis and ones are going 

  to realize they have been working on projects which were so unworldly as 

  to shock Spielberg. Worse than what appears on the surface, they are 

  subjected to mandatory testings, physicals, etc., where they are totally 

  programmed "to forget" what they have seen and heard.  I am going to name 

  some names and places (locations) so that you can check them out as to 

  authenticity and then you will find it easier to accept truth as it is 

  unfolded to you.  We will start in the local area of Southern California 

  in the Edwards Air Force Base area extending in a large triangular shape 

  which includes all the way to Pasadena, Long Beach, Palmdale, Lancaster, 

  Tehachapi, Mojave, Edwards and China Lake--just for starters.  We have 

  spoken often already about the areas of "51", "72", Dulce, etc., in 

  Nevada, New Mexico and Arizona so we will leave it to suffice that 

  duplication is present in those places as well.  Ones who have had the 

  "privilege" of tourist rides into Yucca Mountain to check out the tunnels 

  for planned nuclear waste sites will not be as shocked as the rest of you 

  unsuspecting ones.  At Yucca Mountain alone there are over 35 major 

  tunnels which totally catacomb the mountain at all levels as deep as 

  several miles.  There is only one tunnel open for public eyes and it is 

  impressive enough to stun the eyes and minds of hardened engineers.  In 

  the Palmdale area beneath a "hanger" type building, which actually is 

  movable on tracks, is a multilayer technology center over eight levels in 

  depth and the size of a massive city.  The workers are mostly 

  manufactured robotoids and synthetics made for labor with computer 

  intelligence.  Human participants are of the "Ultra top-secret clearance" 

  personnel.  At Edwards launch area in a bluff (butte) called Haystack, 

  there is an even larger installation underground with incredible beam 

  pulse systems, aircraft launchers, stealth equipment in coalition with 

  the Soviet Cosmosphere program with total capability of destroying the 

  planet in some 15 minutes.  Locked into that installation is a massive 

  underground facility near Tehachapi called The Anthill (Northrup).  There 

  are open silos wherein light laser systems are tested and cosmos-drones 

  sent out like marching armies to probe electronically.  They are like 

  little basketballs of light running usually to blue and sometimes 

  golden/orange.  These particular installations are carved out with 

  digging equipment which melts the mind as to possibilities as nothing 

  stops them--not rock nor metal.  They are drills tipped with diamond bits 

  and carve a 40 ft.  tunnel in mere hours.  Interconnecting these 

  installations are high-speed transit rails with "trains" which "fly" on 

  an electromagnetic system off the ground at incredible speed.  There has 

  been a lot of "blasting", also, but covered by the stories of aircraft 

  moving through the sound barrier and after a while it simply became that 

  no-one paid any attention.  


  Topic:BEINGS INVOLVED 


  I don't even like to speak much of the Reptilians because they are 

  dramatically for fear effect.  Some are simply beings with leathered type 

  of covering for protection purposes and are no more than humans in 

  costume.  The Little Grays fit into a different type of category and if 

  not selectively handled get completely out of control.  These are both 

  comprised of manufactured (soul-less) beings without compassion or 

  feelings of any type.  They are very "strong" physically and the "Grays" 

  can literally infiltrate into the substance around them, i.e., they can 

  "float" or disperse through a wall or door, etc.  There is a third type 

  of replicated being made in the form of that which is presented to you on 

  television as an "Orange". These are computer-bright but basically clone 

  laborers.  These are very human in appearance but too synthetic to fit in 

  with your citizenry.  I am going to remind you--THESE ARE NOT SPACE 

  ALIENS ALTHOUGH PATTERNED FROM ORIGINAL ALIEN ENTRIES OF EONS PAST. I 

  hope you are beginning to get the picture, chelas.  These are the 

  adversaries OF GOD and of we, the Hosts. They neither have the technology 

  to traverse the cosmos nor are they even allowed into the space beyond 

  the Earth orbiting system at best.  These ones are led and controlled by 

  the entities who would Rule the Earth and they are the reflection of 

  hybrid, emotionless beings who serve the World Order "Elite". They are 

  basically Satanic tools and act on direct orders of the controllers.  


  Topic:WAR OF THE "GODS" 


  We don't speak of "Gods" as such, but the idea fits.  It is the time of 

  sorting and separation of the participants (players) on the physical orb 

  called Shan (Earth). It is the time of retrieval of God's children who 

  are experiencing on the place for all sorts of varying reasons in 

  soul-growth progression.  Evil intends to rule the globe and all things 

  thereon.  But, he has already destroyed the bountiful wonders of the 

  globe and it cannot continue as is.  Therefore, the plan is to take 

  control through whatever means available--preferably leaving a remnant of 

  Godly slave laborers and annihilation of other souled beings.  This will 

  be accomplished in two ways.  l.  He will simply convince the souled 

  being that God is not who and what He claims to be.  Those unthinking 

  masses will simply be led down the "primrose" paths through the mire of 

  lies and disbeliefs of truth.  These, for the most part, will be called 

  Christians (by any other label).  These ones will be side-tracked into a 

  belief system which revolves around the human physical being of, say, a 

  Jesus Christ or Buddha, as adequate examples.  They will set their intent 

  upon denying and "proving" the non-presence of God, Hosts, Goodly Aliens, 

  etc.--anything of the Spiritual realms of Light. Their whole intent will 

  claim infinite experience but will be entrapped in total physical and 

  material matter.  2. He will simply enslave physically those who stand 

  against him and as ones are no longer useful, they will be slain and/or 

  used for testing, etc.  Disease will wipe out multitudes and then wars 

  will annihilate millions, famine and exposure will get more and in the 

  interim, all dissenters will be interned in compounds if they are thought 

  to be dangerous to "the cause".  Ones who go about their business without 

  great confrontation will be basically left alone if they are in areas 

  wherein they are no bother.  


  Topic:GOD WILL NOT INTERFERE 


  There is full understanding between the higher "commands". Our people are 

  not to be harmed.  This does not mean that ALL know this even though ones 

  who attempt bodily harm are usually taken out a.s.a.p.  by their own 

  group.  The adversary will not risk encounter with my Command. God's 

  people are "off limits".  I suggest you be making very, very sure as to 

  whether or not you are one of God's people.  Don't ask ME!  If you don't 

  know then you better get awfully worried.  Does this mean that God's 

  people will not be caught in anything nasty or negative?  No, many of you 

  will perish and no place, as such, is safer than any other.  I can assure 

  you that you will have colds and flu, get cold and get hot, hungry and 

  tired just like everyone and anyone else.  You WILL be allowed to fulfill 

  your mission whatever it might entail and you WILL BE RECLAIMED AND 

  BROUGHT INTO SAFETY AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME. There is time left for 

  action in almost unlimited manner if you utilize that time well.  Things 

  are not in order to the point of desirability on the part of the Planners 

  so you will simply work within that circumstance in which you find self.  

  There are still some methods of assisting selves with security in ability 

  to barter, etc., if you use intelligence.  Violence will simply get all 

  of our workers killed and it will not be tolerated--if I have to tell you 

  that point then you are going to harm more than serve good.  You will be 

  sly as the serpent and gentle as the dove--dead martyrs serve no one.  

  Your job is not to fight the war--yours is to bring Truth, put it to 

  press, assist wherein you can by example without force or undue nagging 

  for each will have to know for self.  We must have a "remnant" and that 

  means that you of my command will not act in foolishness or you will be 

  put to the side lest you endanger the entire lift-off program.  You will 

  be given to know your task when appropriate and he who acts in greed will 

  be put to last.  Know that we can beam you up into safety from Mars if 

  need be.  I can get you aboard the Phoenix, for instance, which is far 

  outside your orbiting place.  


  Topic:OTHER PLACES IN THE U.S. 


  There are massive bases in Canada but some of the more important 

  strategic centers are, of course, around (under) Atlanta and Arkansas. In 

  some of those areas there were already an underground "alien" race and 

  massive tunneling complex.  There are also ancient tunnels under 

  Tehachapi, for instance.  The military has now tunneled right to the side 

  of the crystal in Tehachapi and we have now blocked their entry into that 

  portion of their system.  Only a tiny portion of the crystal in point is 

  allowed the use of Earthians. 


  Topic:POISON WATER SUPPLY 


  Other bad news includes a slow and deliberate addition of herbicides into 

  the water systems of your cities.  Most is by accidental seepage from 

  growing fields at very low levels of toxicity but now covering massive 

  areas.  As water supplies dwindle in the areas stricken by drought there 

  will be more and more actual toxic response to that pollution.  There 

  will also be virus infection via water systems whereby whole villages and 

  sections of cities will become ill within hours--simultaneously.  The 

  cover-up is massive and "leakers" or "speakers" are dealt with instantly 

  by either absolute negation of "law" or injection or by death--mostly the 

  latter depending on the importance of the "squealer". You have ones in 

  the local group who are targets who managed to survive all three types of 

  assault.  I will tell you now, it is very difficult to kill one of my 

  people.  Usually the journey to this side is vaguely remembered and 

  almost always the trip itself is recalled and known at the time and again 

  remembered at some time later.  



  Topic:AM I TELLING YOU "IT IS OVER"?  


  No indeed.  I am simply telling you that you must be ready for that next 

  assault on your beings as we have described it in the past.  Remember, I 

  told you that before you are through, the enemy will blame all things on 

  aliens to prevent any of you being reclaimed by God--THE BATTLE IS FOR 

  YOUR SOULS--ONE DIRECTION GIVES TOTAL FREEDOM AND THE OTHER ENSLAVEMENT 

  AND YOU MUST DECIDE WHICH YOU WILL EXPERIENCE. How many will see through 

  the facade of the physical illusion and into the co-creatorship which 

  produced that illusion?  When you understand God then you will also 

  understand that it only requires YOUR decision.  It is up to YOU to 

  choose the gold or the gold-covered lead!  Both appear the same and often 

  the lead covered in gold appears the more shiny and desirable to the 

  fleshly experience.  The lead actually has more value in the higher 

  experiences.  A guide to "clues" is also available to you who will 

  mentally take a look.  The protocols and instructions are in place.  

  Bridges, passes and area dams are now bombed (mined) and tracking 

  stations already in place--to keep ones in the area wherein you ARE when 

  the curtain falls.  This means a shut-down of all international travel, 

  and interstate travel as well, as time passes.  The point is to actually 

  lock you into a small area of location and one in which you can be easily 

  controlled and accounted for.  Note the closure of one airline after 

  another and note how many of those airline planes are at Mojave!  As 

  surface travel is shut down those parts will be utilized for other types 

  of vehicles and weapons.  The plan, of course, is to allow things to 

  appear natural in their occurrence--i.e., the markets will fall and you 

  will be in a depression but always with the prattling that "it is getting 

  better"--"just a fluctuation".  You will be like the Russians--into 

  disaster without realizing it happened to you.  In your confusion you 

  will get deeper and deeper into the pit until the trap is closed.  Then 

  the government will simply pull out all resources (welfare) and it will 

  appear most spontaneous because, after all, a government without money 

  cannot maintain anything.  The ignorant will remain ignorant and in 

  denial until it is over and some will never know differently, much less 

  admit that what we gave forth was right and correct.  Will you go down 

  without revolution?  Probably not, but the bigger gun usually wins, 

  especially if he has trained himself to be more clever.  You, dear ones, 

  have been uneducated and many of your so-called educated adults can 

  neither read nor write.  


** End of topic **


Don



-- 

-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?

Internet: dona@bilver.uucp  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM

UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"

Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?

Path: ns-mx!uunet!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!newstop!sun!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!noring

From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>

Date: 19 Feb 92 18:04:40 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com>

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

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In article <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

>

>And in his book "People of the Lie", Peck "proved" that some people

>who appear to have mental illness are really possessed by devils.

>(And this guy is a psychologist!!)


You seem to have made the determination (a priori) that "devils or demons" do

not exist, thus you use that to totally dismiss Mr. Peck's book and his

credibility.  A true skeptic would not hold such an opinion (skepticism must

be a two-edged sword to be true skepticism).  However, the burden of proof

that such people are possessed by demons is on Peck.  Did he present a

compelling case and well document it?  If not, then the proper conclusion

that one could say is "Mr. Peck, in my opinion, did not conclusively prove

his thesis that some mentally ill people are possessed by demons."  However,

if you cannot show fallacies in how he weaved together the evidence, then you

are not in a position to *authoritatively* dismiss his work (you do have the

right, however, to hold and state any *non-authoritative* opinion that you

like).  And, of course, anyone dismissing Mr. Peck's work and/or his

credibility must also put forth a compelling argument to substantiate their

dismissal, otherwise their opinion carries no weight whatsoever.


I have never read any of Mr. Peck's books, nor have I even heard of him.  Thus

I am not in a position to establish an opinion on his results nor on the man

himself.  If I do study his works, I may come to the opinion that the guy is

out to lunch.  However, I cannot make such a determination at this time nor

will I consider what others say about him using non-authoritative opinions,

as Mr. Sheaffer stated in the above posting.


Of course, this is Usenet, and here everything goes.  :^)


Jon Noring


-- 

=============================================================================

| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |

| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |

| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |

| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |

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"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average

coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,

nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289

From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 21:45:49 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au>

Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)

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ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes:


>> If I'm paying the tax bill, what I favor is a robot IMAX camera where

>> the wind sounds are recorded in 8 channel,  dolby,  THX, etc.  If we did 

>> that,  then millions could come close to "going" to Mars,  without anyone

>> actually going.  We have the pictures from Apollo,  but they don't convey 

>> the awesome feeling of standing on the moon.  I want the experience.

>Y O U    C A N - 

>All you have to do is watch the MARS NAVIGATOR database on the Macintosh PC - 

>a touch-screen based videodisk product which is based on the Viking 3 surface 

>pictures of the Mars landscape. I think it was Industrial Light and Magic who

>added the 16-bit stereo sound and the 3-d enhancement of the fly-over footage.


I've always been impressed by ILM, but this tops it!  They have data from a 

probe that never existed! (there were only two Vikings). I've been thinking

about doing something like this for Venus.  If anyone has any information 

about programming codes, let me know.


Josh Hopkins

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!hela.iti.org!aws

From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.215737.14123@iti.org>

Date: 19 Feb 92 21:57:37 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>

Followup-To: Anywhere but sci.space

Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

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Please drop sci.space from the followups to this thread.


  Many thanks

   Allen


-- 

+          They're just jealous because they don't have three               +

|          wise men and a virgin in the whole organization                  |

|     --Vincent Cianci on the ACLU suit to remove a nativity scene          |

+----------------------443 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289

From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.215245.24450@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 21:52:45 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb19.142842.10181@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)

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>>However, I think many face activists have the wrong impression.  NASA was 

>>planning to take a picture of the face last I heard.  just beacuse they don't

>>make it their top priority doesn't mean that they are conspiring to hide 

>>evidence.

>> 

>> Josh


>Someone correct me if I'm wrong, with references, but I believe that

>_congress_ gave NASA a _mandate_ to take pictures of Cydonia with the

>Mars Observer.

>It was not NASA's decision.


I've heard this from an unreliable source, but I don't have references for

or against it.  The issue isn't all that significant though, unless someone

can prove that NASA was planning to _not_ take a picutre of Cydonia before

congress got involved.  MO will go into polar orbit and take pictures of most

of Mars.  Just because NASA didn't want to make Cydonia a priority doesn't mean

they planned to go out of their way to avoid taking picuters every time MO

goes over the region.

Josh Hopkins


>Jim Graham 

>        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

>                          Neither do they speak for me.

> ______________________________________________________________________

>| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

>|           dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu                        |

>| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |

>|            (812) 334-0418, 24hrs.                                    |

>|______________________________________________________________________|

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From: kji+@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Kathi Iannamico)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: .. .

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.215536.75751@cs.cmu.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 21:55:36 GMT

Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Lines: 2

Nntp-Posting-Host: speech1.cs.cmu.edu

Originator: kji@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU


... .. .. .  /.. . ... . ... .

/.. 

Path: ns-mx!uunet!sun-barr!newstop!sun!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer

From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com>

Date: 19 Feb 92 19:17:49 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20808 sci.space:26816 alt.paranormal:4416 alt.alien.visitors:4526


In article <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

>You seem to have made the determination (a priori) that "devils or demons" do

>not exist, thus you use that to totally dismiss Mr. Peck's book and his

>credibility. 


I been a BAD widdle boy! :)




> And, of course, anyone dismissing Mr. Peck's work and/or his

>credibility must also put forth a compelling argument to substantiate their

>dismissal, otherwise their opinion carries no weight whatsoever.

>

Sorry, that's backwards. Anyone ACCEPTING Peck's conclusion must put forth

a compelling reason why the "devil possession" hypothesis is correct,

and modern science is wrong.

 

The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on whoever makes extraordinary claims.


-- 

  

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

  

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",

      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!rufus!j_gott

From: j_gott@rufus.math.nwu.edu (Joe Gottman)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins

Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality

Keywords: mistake, UFOs, psi, creationism

Message-ID: <1992Feb19.195824.20912@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>

Date: 19 Feb 92 19:58:24 GMT

References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1011@bsu-cs.bsu.edu>

Sender: Joe Gottman

Organization: Dept of Math, Northwestern Univ

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This 'alibi mentallity' could also be called 'Sherlock Holmes's fallacy.'

One of his most famous sayings is "When you have eliminated the impossible,

whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Mycroft would

never have made such a mistake. :)


Joe Gottman

Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!veritas!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!payner

From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>

Date: 19 Feb 92 19:25:24 GMT

References: <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <66960@ut-emx.uucp> <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Distribution: na

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Lines: 198


In article <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...

>>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...

>>>>In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>>

>>>Incidentally, are you aware that Vallee became interested in studying this

>>>phenomenon when he found astronomers destroying observation data of UFO

>>>events that they could not explain?

>> 

>>I'm interested to know what type of observation data astronomers had

>>that could possibly have contributed to UFO research in the first place.

>> 

>

>_Unidentified_ flying objects comes to mind.

 

You have re-named the phemonena, not identified data astronomers

might contribute. I can see that they _might_ have observations

and possibly some photographic evidence. They do watch the sky

more often than the rest of us I would think.


>>[ other deletia ]

>> 

>>>>So, all you have to do is to convince astronomers, and other scientists,

>>>>that studying UFOs is going to teach us about *anything real*, apart

>>>>from human self-deception!!

>>>

>>>No, not necessarily.  The only people that need convincing are those who

>>>might be inquisitive enough to want to know what the phenomenon really,

>>>truly is.   

>> 

>>Past experience has shown that many times, the phenomenon is something

>>quite explainable in terms of our current knowledge, i.e. weather,

>>hoaxing, etc. Because of this, there is not much enthusiasm among

>

>Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.

 

Curiously, when many people _say_ UFO, they mean _alien spacecraft_.

So what they are talking about is not an unknown deserving of study,

but those darn aliens. 


>>scientists to pursue the subject when so much *real* science can be

>>done in the meantime.

>

>"Real" science?  Define this in such a way that it directly contradicts

>what I have been claiming.

>

>>I presume that the people who are already "working" on the problem

>>will let us know if they ever come up with anything substantive.

>> 

>>>

>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth

>>>about this phenomenon need apply.


Need there be a single TRVTH? Or even just one phenomenon? I thought

we were dealing with an unknown? Hopefully I have guessed correctly

who originally said this.


>> 

>>Only those who have the time and money to spend on wild goose

>>chases, basing conclusions on anecdotal information and ignoring

>>the problem of unrepeatability need apply. 

>

>My statement about "truth" stands.


I tend to think that there is no truth, just different points of

view. 

 

>What you are asking for is "repeatability" of a _particular_ sighting.

>

>What I have been talking about is the _phenomenon_ in a collective sense.

>

>That is undeniable.  That is worth studying.  


As many believe, and many do not.


>

>Simple question:  You want repeatability.  Show me how you can, in a 

>laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in

>a nuclear fission reaction.  Show me a real, honest to goodness

>black hole.


This seems to be a straw-man argument. The truth or falsity of the

above has no bearing upon the value of studying the "UFO phenomenon".

Nevertheless, fission, while not predictable, is quite repeatable,

and the rate can be measured. Now if only UFO observations were as

repeatable, this thread would never have existed. And there is

a pretty good theoretical basis behind black holes. What theory

perdicts UFO`s? 


>Then, show me how I can repeat the same experiments and get the same

>results.


Is that not for those who claim that UFO are worth the study to

show?

 

>The bottom line is that you can't.  You can show me effects that point

>to these things, but you can't _show_ me these "things".

>

>In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.


No argument, but where do we go from here? This alone is not

sufficient.

 

>Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists.  Evidence for a particular "UFO"

>(whatever that may be) does not.


A flying saucer might be studied. How does one study a phenomenon?

 

>Now, let me rephrase the above....

>

>"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists.  Evidence that

>atom #1E37 is going to split does not.

>

>Do you see my point?


I see your point. But things with boring repeatability have never

been that difficult to study.

 

>>>BTW: Has it ever occurred to you that you may be limiting the sciences by

>>>allowing the study of only those things that would contribute to _known_

>>>fields (such as astronomy, biology, etc.)?  Is it not possible that a

>>>study of the _phenomena_ may yield an entirely _new_ science?

>> 

>>I for one wouldn't call astronomy a "known" science, although I

>>think I know what you mean. I agree with you in principle, actually - 

>>but until there is at least some measure of real recurrence,

>>I don't think it's very sensible at all to pursue that avenue.

>>It involves an unjustifiable allocation of resources that I cannot

>>accept.

>

>Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).

>It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters.  If you're

>in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.


I think that the requirements to eat and pay the rent might

just possibly make it into the objective category. Unless you

make a living doing something else, and study the phenomenon on

your own.

 

>>>Don't misunderstand me.  I'm not implying that we should study the 

>>>phenomenon for the sake of creating a new science.  But, by limiting

>> 

>>There's nothing wrong with *developing* a new science; unless

>>you're trying to make one where there is no scientific method

>>of inquiry to begin with.

>

>Such as?  You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of

>the UFO phenomenon.  That is blatantly false.  Would you care to provide

>evidence of this?


It is not possible to _prove_ that a thing does not exist.

Rather, the problem here is defining just what the phenomenon

is. Right now all we have is the 'phenomenon' label, and claims

of alien spacecraft. Would you care to try to get funding

based upon this?

 

>> 

>>>our research to those things we already know about or we are sure will

>>>contribute only to _known_ fields is, well...., limiting.

>> 

>>When the possibility for real science arises in regard to the

>>"UFO phenomenon", I think you'll find a great many people

>>interested in the topic. 

>

>The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time.  Unfortunately,

>it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because

>of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject.  What I

>find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the

>_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current

>SETI research.  That is absurd.


While I think the chances of SETI working are so slim as to

make it a wasted effort, how does one compare SETI to a conspiricy

theory, and find an absurdity. Also you claim we have a UFO

'phenomenon', not alien intelligence, how do you reconcile that

with the clear implication that UFO are extraterrestial

intelligences above?

 

>So don't preach to me about "repeatability".

>

>>Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)

>

>Jim Graham 

>

>        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

>                          Neither do they speak for me.

> ______________________________________________________________________

>| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

>|           dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu                        |

>| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |

>|            (812) 334-0418, 24hrs.                                    |

>|______________________________________________________________________|



Rich


payner@netcom.com Sig is at the cleaners.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!sun-barr!newstop!sun!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!noring

From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy

Subject: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?

Summary: We should have more open-minded skepticism.

Keywords: Open-minded skepticism

Message-ID: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com>

Date: 19 Feb 92 21:54:37 GMT

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Lines: 101

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It all started from another thread:


In article sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

>In article noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

>>You seem to have made the determination (a priori) that "devils or demons" do

>>not exist, thus you use that to totally dismiss Mr. Peck's book and his

>>credibility. 

>

>I been a BAD widdle boy! :)

>

>> And, of course, anyone dismissing Mr. Peck's work and/or his

>>credibility must also put forth a compelling argument to substantiate their

>>dismissal, otherwise their opinion carries no weight whatsoever.

>>

>Sorry, that's backwards. Anyone ACCEPTING Peck's conclusion must put forth

>a compelling reason why the "devil possession" hypothesis is correct,

>and modern science is wrong.


I can agree with that, but I also still hold the original view.  A small

point:  I believe (and this carries no weight, just my uneducated opinion :^) )

that the existence of intelligent beings beyond the ability of our present-day

scientific instruments to detect does not necessarily run counter to modern

science.  Saying it another way, the existence of "demons" and modern science

are not in conflict.  You'd have to elaborate on this, and define what you

mean by modern science.


>The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on whoever makes extraordinary claims.


Most Definitely.  We totally agree here.



***********************************************

End of this thread, now to start a new thread:

***********************************************



(WARNING: I just can't take it anymore - it's been building for a long time -

this was the straw that broke the camels back!  I got to get on my soapbox and

get it off my chest.)



The rest of us, including me, should maintain a healthy, not an unhealthy

skepticism about alternative scientific theories.  Unhealthy is accepting as

dogma everything we're taught, including present-day scientific theories, and

thus *arbitrarily* rejecting new theories if they seem too far away from

present-day thinking.  This, taken to its logical conclusion, can lead to

oppression, suppression and censorship of those who put forth new ideas

(e.g., Galileo, who suffered under religious-scientific dogma of his day).


Of course, I demand to be shown substantiating evidence and arguments, and the

burden of proof is on the presenter;  but I will give a *non-hostile*, even a

friendly, forum to anyone who puts forth theories and conjectures that run

counter to present-day thinking, no matter how bizarre.  Only by fostering

such an open climate can we maximize the creativity of our scientists and

scholars, and to advance scientific understanding;  a hostile climate to new

ideas will only stifle many (and fortunately not all) from working on and

presenting such new conjectures, ideas and theories, and thus stifle scientific

understanding itself.


And why do I say this?  Well, it's pretty obvious from reading many postings

on Usenet that many (but not all) scientists and engineers are fairly

intolerant (read:  hostile) of ideas and theories that run counter to what they

were taught and now believe.  And they will go through incredible effort to

act on their hostility and attempt to suppress any scholarly discussion.  Of

course, I ask, why the hostility?  (Maybe a psychologist can answer this.)


I myself experienced hostility against me for posting the Bearden papers to

sci.physics and alt.sci.physics.new-theories (I admit the conjectures given in

them are different, to say the least, and I have not formed a final opinion on

these conjectures - in fact that is why I posted them so those in the physics

community could give valuable feedback).  A few physicists gave me some useful

feedback (thanks!) on Bearden's conjectures;  these people I highly applaud

for rising above their emotions and giving constructive criticism.  However,

I received about 20 extremely hostile replies basically telling me to "keep

that shit off this newsgroup";  I wouldn't be surprised if several did not

even read the abstracts to the papers before determining that they were "shit".


I'm sure that others could give many more and better examples of scientific

intolerance, both past and present.  I'd also like to get feedback as to how

institutionalized scientific intolerance is today.


(I now climb down from my soapbox fully relieved to get it off my chest.)



Anyway, that's my $0.03 worth (inflation, you know).



Jon Noring  "the open-minded skeptical scientist"



-- 

=============================================================================

| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |

| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |

| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |

| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |

=============================================================================

"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average

coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,

nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!newstop!sun!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!payner

From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1mdhzm-payner@netcom.com>

Date: 19 Feb 92 23:36:38 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Lines: 72

Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20817 sci.space:26820 alt.paranormal:4419 alt.alien.visitors:4530


In article <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

>In article <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

>>

>>And in his book "People of the Lie", Peck "proved" that some people

>>who appear to have mental illness are really possessed by devils.

>>(And this guy is a psychologist!!)

>

>You seem to have made the determination (a priori) that "devils or demons" do

>not exist, thus you use that to totally dismiss Mr. Peck's book and his

>credibility.  A true skeptic would not hold such an opinion (skepticism must


A skeptic is a doubter, someone who says things like "show me". A true

skeptic would believe nothing that has not been demonstrated, and then

doubt the demonstration.


What exactly do you mean when you use the word skeptic? It is not a 

sword, of any description as far as I know, and it has no edge.


Please elucidate.


>be a two-edged sword to be true skepticism).  However, the burden of proof

>that such people are possessed by demons is on Peck.  Did he present a


The value of any such proof would not be all that great unless it had

already been demonstrated that demons exist. To my knowledge, the existance

of demons has been claimed for thousands of years, but proof has been

sadly lacking for those who do not believe in them already. Along similiar

lines I have heard much about magic, but I have not seen magic of the

same type demonstrated. The stage magicians put on a better show.


>compelling case and well document it?  If not, then the proper conclusion

>that one could say is "Mr. Peck, in my opinion, did not conclusively prove

>his thesis that some mentally ill people are possessed by demons."  However,

>if you cannot show fallacies in how he weaved together the evidence, then you

>are not in a position to *authoritatively* dismiss his work (you do have the


Who would you say is in an _authoritative_ position to talk about demons?

Will they provide proof? And by what agency would they be an authority?


>right, however, to hold and state any *non-authoritative* opinion that you

>like).  And, of course, anyone dismissing Mr. Peck's work and/or his

>credibility must also put forth a compelling argument to substantiate their

>dismissal, otherwise their opinion carries no weight whatsoever.

>

>I have never read any of Mr. Peck's books, nor have I even heard of him.  Thus


I have one book, but have yet to read it. Z transforms come first right now.A


>I am not in a position to establish an opinion on his results nor on the man

>himself.  If I do study his works, I may come to the opinion that the guy is

>out to lunch.  However, I cannot make such a determination at this time nor

>will I consider what others say about him using non-authoritative opinions,

>as Mr. Sheaffer stated in the above posting.

>

>Of course, this is Usenet, and here everything goes.  :^)

>

>Jon Noring

>

>-- 

>=============================================================================

>| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |

>| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |

>| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |

>| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |

>=============================================================================

>"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average

>coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,

>nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.


Rich


payner@netcom.com

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!linac!att!att!cbnewsd!press2

From: press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: The Shriek of the Looney --Part One--

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.025553.10602@cbnewsd.att.com>

Date: 20 Feb 92 02:55:53 GMT

References: <6274@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>

Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

Lines: 17




I thought the Pleidians were duped by the purple shades of

grey whom introduced decaf into their coffee magazines(storage

areas) without their knowledge. The loss of buzz caused the

Pleid's to grow soft and lazy, wherein the PSoG were able to

chase them off the planet and inhabit it themselves.

Thus the Pleid's ran into planet earth, where they cultivated

their precious brew once again. Many eons later did they

realize what happened to them, and decided to develop humans

to guard their magazines against further sabatoge by the 

now Gray shades of Purple who were once the Purple shades of

Grey before the poles flipped on the Plaeidian planet they took

over.

But I could be wrong.


barry--

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!pacbell.com!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2

From: press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Summary: face of the Gill MAn

Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.030659.10912@cbnewsd.att.com>

Date: 20 Feb 92 03:06:59 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs> <1992Feb13.152533.7634@acsu.buffalo.edu>

Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors

Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

Lines: 12

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4532 sci.space:26822 sci.skeptic:20818 alt.paranormal:4420





I saw this face when the pics first came out. I suddenly recalled

a striking resemblance to the Gill Man in the movies "Creature

from the Black Lagoon". No, could it be? I recorded the movie once

and stop framed it at the gill man's face, and sure enough. A side

by side look at virtual twins! Now, if only I can find this Gill

Man and question him about it, or better yet, if NASA could locate

him. I think he was last seen living in the Amazon river.


barry--

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham

From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.034051.10773@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 04:05:48 GMT

References: <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <66960@ut-emx.uucp> <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>

Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)

Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu

Distribution: na

Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana

Lines: 203

News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu


In article <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...

>In article <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...

>>>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...


>>Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.

>Curiously, when many people _say_ UFO, they mean _alien spacecraft_.

>So what they are talking about is not an unknown deserving of study,

>but those darn aliens. 


Ah, but who cares?  If you read my previous posts, you won't find _me_

attributing UFO's to "alien spacecraft".  I've been arguing about the

phenomenon.  Once again, someone else (you, this time) is forcing the

"alien" issue.


Why?


>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth

>>>>about this phenomenon need apply.

>Need there be a single TRVTH? Or even just one phenomenon? I thought

>we were dealing with an unknown? Hopefully I have guessed correctly

>who originally said this.


Absolutely.  Show me where I have insisted that there is _one_ truth to

be found here.


>>My statement about "truth" stands.


>I tend to think that there is no truth, just different points of

>view. 


No offense, but doesn't this statement strike you as rather "unscientific"?


>>

>>Simple question:  You want repeatability.  Show me how you can, in a 

>>laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in

>>a nuclear fission reaction.  Show me a real, honest to goodness

>>black hole.

>This seems to be a straw-man argument. The truth or falsity of the

>above has no bearing upon the value of studying the "UFO phenomenon".

>Nevertheless, fission, while not predictable, is quite repeatable,

>and the rate can be measured. Now if only UFO observations were as

>repeatable, this thread would never have existed. And there is

>a pretty good theoretical basis behind black holes. What theory

>perdicts UFO`s? 


What theory predicts that atom 1E37 will divide?  Look, the point I'm

trying to make is that we keep hearing that the UFO phenomenon is not

repeatable in a laboratory.  Of course it isn't.  But neither are other

things which we _accept_ in science as valid.  I have yet to see the

difference.


Most importantly, much of science does NOT begin in the laboratory in

a repeatable setting.  It begins with _something_ that raises questions.


If that "something" has raised a question, then the next step is to

decide whether we can _try_ to answer it.  That is where the current

state of the study of the UFO phenomenon rests.  It has never gone

beyond this.


For one to cry that there is no "repeatable" evidence of the phenomenon

is to deny the birth of other scientific advances.  Many of those did

not start in a laboratory.  They started with _observation_, something

that should be a holy word to science.


Fission, as a phenomenon, is deliberately repeatable.  I agree.


However, there was a time when it was _not_.  It was only a "theory".


How did we achieve repeatability?  By studying the processes that we

thought should lead to it.  Call it a bit of forensic science if you

will.  In any case, we _believed_ (for the most part) that we should

be able to actually split something we could not see and still haven't.


At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth, I'll go one step further and

say that fission is NOT repeatable and NOT predictable for any particular

single atom.  There is a probability that atom #1E37 _may_ divide.


>>

>>In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.


>No argument, but where do we go from here? This alone is not

>sufficient.


You and I agree on this.  The answer seems obvious to me.  You don't

argue that the _phenomenon_ is real (as I stated above).  So, if this

"alone is not sufficient", we do what science dictates that we do.


We study it further.


>>Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists.  Evidence for a particular "UFO"

>>(whatever that may be) does not.

>A flying saucer might be studied. How does one study a phenomenon?


Ask a psychologist.


>>Now, let me rephrase the above....

>>

>>"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists.  Evidence that

>>atom #1E37 is going to split does not.

>>

>>Do you see my point?

>I see your point. But things with boring repeatability have never

>been that difficult to study.


I would venture to say that the reporting of UFO sightings occurs quite

often worldwide.  Can we demand that a UFO appear?  No.  Therefore, it is

not repeatable on demand.  So what?  That doesn't change the fact that

thousands of reports occur annually.


>>

>>Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).

>>It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters.  If you're

>>in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.

>I think that the requirements to eat and pay the rent might

>just possibly make it into the objective category. Unless you

>make a living doing something else, and study the phenomenon on

>your own.


No.  That makes it especially subjective.


>>Such as?  You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of

>>the UFO phenomenon.  That is blatantly false.  Would you care to provide

>>evidence of this?

>It is not possible to _prove_ that a thing does not exist.

>Rather, the problem here is defining just what the phenomenon

>is. Right now all we have is the 'phenomenon' label, and claims

>of alien spacecraft. Would you care to try to get funding

>based upon this?


I'm not asking for that.  I simply meant that if you _are_ implying that

those who _do_ seriously study the subject (few as they may be) are not

doing so in a scientific manner, then you evidently have evidence of some

sort to lead you to make such an assertion.


As for defining the phenomenon...well...I don't see that as a problem.


The phenomenon _is_.  If one weighs most if not all of the anecdotal and

physical trace evidence, it's clear that there is no single _cause_ of

the phenomenon.  In fact, the phenomenon may be divided into categories.


And yes, I _did_ say "physical trace evidence".


I'll be happy to explain if you wish, but let's assume that I'm right.


What's the difference between this "trace" evidence and say, trace evidence

that the element Lead was once unstable?  We can't repeat that can we?


>>

>>The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time.  Unfortunately,

>>it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because

>>of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject.  What I

>>find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the

>>_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current

>>SETI research.  That is absurd.

>While I think the chances of SETI working are so slim as to

>make it a wasted effort, how does one compare SETI to a conspiricy

>theory, and find an absurdity. 


"Conspiracy"?  What are you talking about?  Did I miss something?


>Also you claim we have a UFO

>'phenomenon', not alien intelligence, how do you reconcile that

>with the clear implication that UFO are extraterrestial

>intelligences above?


No, no, NO!  I am not equating the two.  I'm pointing out that "science"

is perfectly happy to look for something it has 0 evidence for (unless you

consider the fact that _we_ exist the evidence).  Yet, when we have

thousands of people worldwide making extraordinary claims, many with

physical traces, instrumental observations, etc., we laugh it off as

nothing.


>>>Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)

>Rich

>payner@netcom.com Sig is at the cleaners.


Regards, 

Jim Graham 


        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

                          Neither do they speak for me.

 ______________________________________________________________________

| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

|           dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu                        |

| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |

|            (812) 334-0418, 24hrs.                                    |

|______________________________________________________________________|

Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!lynx!cyclops.eece.unm.edu!rsquires

From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins

Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality and grossly misposted maunderings

Summary: post your shit where it belongs

Keywords: wasted bandwidth, time, energy

Message-ID: <7tdhp6k@lynx.unm.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 03:30:25 GMT

References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1011@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> <1992Feb19.195824.20912@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>

Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Lines: 11

Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20820 alt.paranormal:4421 alt.alien.visitors:4534 talk.origins:15079


I've noticed in the last few days an increasing number of postings to 

talk.origins that are cross-posted to groups like

sci.skeptic

alt.paranormal

alt.alien.visitors

If those who are posting this *ahem* "stuff" would take the time to direct

their replys to The One Appropriate Group I would appreciate it, and perhaps

other readers would as well.  Thank you in advance!


Roger Squires

rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu

Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!apple!netcomsv!mork!noring

From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: .. .

Message-ID: <andh!zanoring@netcom.com>

Date: 19 Feb 92 23:52:26 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.215536.75751@cs.cmu.edu>

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Lines: 18


In article <1992Feb19.215536.75751@cs.cmu.edu> kji+@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Kathi Iannamico) writes:

>... .. .. .  /.. . ... . ... .

>/.. 


O.K., I give up, what does this mean?


Jon Noring


-- 

=============================================================================

| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |

| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |

| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |

| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |

=============================================================================

"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average

coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,

nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utzoo!henry

From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.052557.5051@zoo.toronto.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 05:25:57 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com>

Followup-To: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

Lines: 11

Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20824 sci.space:26826 alt.paranormal:4422 alt.alien.visitors:4536


In article <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

>>You seem to have made the determination (a priori) that "devils or demons" do

>>not exist, thus you use that to totally dismiss Mr. Peck's book and his

>>credibility. 

>

>I been a BAD widdle boy! :)


Please take this out of sci.space, children. :-)

-- 

SVR4:  proving that quantity is         | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology

not a substitute for quality.           |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL

From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.054634.27276@cco.caltech.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 05:46:34 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>,<1992Feb19.142842.10181@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu

Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU

Distribution: na

Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera

Lines: 22

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4537 sci.space:26827 sci.skeptic:20826 alt.paranormal:4423

Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu


In article <1992Feb19.142842.10181@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM) writes:

>Someone correct me if I'm wrong, with references, but I believe that

>_congress_ gave NASA a _mandate_ to take pictures of Cydonia with the

>Mars Observer.

>

>It was not NASA's decision.


To the best of my knowledge (i.e., do NOT take this as authoritative), nothing

in the mission profile was changed because of that mandate.  The observer would

have been in an orbit that would allow such photographs anyway.  All the

mandate did was to ensure that pictures of Cydonia are specifically mentioned

in the mission goals.  Let's see, given Congress's tendency to verbosity and

NASA's love of paperwork, how many trees do we need for the extra paper that

that mandate will cause to be used?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL


Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My

understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So

unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my

organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to

hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re:  NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?

Message-ID: <jms.07eh@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 19 Feb 92 18:31:10 GMT

References: <5614@npal.rn.com> <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 15


In article <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com> system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer) writes:

>I say if anyone has those on the net, that they should digitize the photos

>and post them, so the government cannot quiet it.  It would be spread all

>over the world and expose the government for what it is.  In an election

>year too!


While I wouldn't mind seeing one frame posted, any more would be a waste of

space.  I wouldn't call videotape very reliable as a credible source

anymore.  It's getting too cheap and easy to do high-quality video work.


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: lucid dreams, OOBEs, etc. [was: Dreamland]

Message-ID: <jms.07ej@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 19 Feb 92 18:40:43 GMT

References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 22

Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20828 alt.paranormal:4424 alt.alien.visitors:4539


In article <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> randall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (randall embry) writes:


[experiences deleted]


>In the book "The Road Less Travelled," the author (Peck?) cites a 1972

>university experiment that "proved" subjects could project images to

>nearby sleeping subjects.  Anyone heard about this?


First off, I changed the subject line because the word "Dreamland" has a

particular meaning in alt.alien.visitors.  I also deleted sci.space from

the newsgroups because I couldn't see any relevance.


It would be my guess that rather than projecting your dreams to other

people, you might have been having some sort of out-of-body experience.  It

would be interesting to try to prove that it was real rather than imagined

by contacting one of the people from your dreams in real life.


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re:  This Forum

Message-ID: <jms.07ep@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 19 Feb 92 18:54:57 GMT

References: <16ce672c@nacjack.gen.nz>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 12


Someone in NZ may want to look into getting these users, or their entire

node, terminated.  I sent a message to the postmaster at the node they

appear to be coming from, but it may do no good if it's not the node

they're really using, not to mention that since it appears to be on Fidonet

it might not have a postmaster address.  It would be best for someone

familiar with the connectivity down there to work on it.


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL

From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 06:22:14 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au>,<1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu

Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU

Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera

Lines: 18

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4541 sci.space:26829 sci.skeptic:20829 alt.paranormal:4425

Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu


In article <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:

>I've always been impressed by ILM, but this tops it!  They have data from a 

>probe that never existed! (there were only two Vikings). I've been thinking

>about doing something like this for Venus.  If anyone has any information 

>about programming codes, let me know.


NASA's already done something like this for Venus.  Well, it wasn't

interactive, but they've got a nice video clip of parts of Venus from the point

of view of someone flying over the surface.  Sorry, I don't know how you would

et a copy of it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL


Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My

understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So

unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my

organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to

hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289

From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.070907.21452@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 07:09:07 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au>,<1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu>

[stuff about video from 'Viking 3' delet

Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4542 sci.space:26830 sci.skeptic:20831 alt.paranormal:4426


>NASA's already done something like this for Venus.  Well, it wasn't

>interactive, but they've got a nice video clip of parts of Venus from the point

>of view of someone flying over the surface.  Sorry, I don't know how you would

>et a copy of it.


As I understand it, the Venus video hasn't been added to NASA's collection of

'free' movies yet. (mail me if you're interested and I'll send you the adress.

They have serveral hundred films you can get for the cost of postage).  I 

think you can buy it from JPL though.  I have seen the other 'Movies' (LA,

Earth, Mars and Miranda), but what I had in mind was slightly different from 

what they did.  I am thinking about doing still pictures, mostly because it

saves space, I (I should say we) don't plan to stretch the elevations any,

and with the venus data in particular, I'd like to add natural 'shadowing' 

over the radar bright/dark surface data.  (And yes, I realize that shadows on 

Venus are a little bit of an oxymoron :)


Of course, you didn't really want to know, did you?

Josh Hopkins


>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!roholdr

From: roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

Date: 20 Feb 92 04:59:21 GMT

References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com>

Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

Lines: 63


In <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> bruce@pages.com (Bruce Henderson) writes:


>About the face.


>Let's all admit that the photographic evidence we have to go on for now is  

>pretty worthless.  It's not real scientific research grade stuff.  And we can  

>all scream and yell about what this fuzzy image enhanced thing looks like.


True, the pictures aren't nearly as good as standing on the surface of Mars

looking up toward the giant face, walking around it and seeing it in 3D.  But

from what I've seen, I think it's pretty safe to infer that it is something

artificially made - probably, isn't it?  If we instantly conclude that it is

[1monly[0m a geological formation, why would the American government spend

- waste the people's money studying a rock?  But if it's more than just

rock - if it's the remanant of a long-dead civilization, isn't it important

that we find out what it is?


>The truth of the matter is:

>Mars Obsever goes up this year and will be in Mars orbit next year.  At that  

>point they can resolve that hunk of rock at with a resolution of 3 meters, many

>>times the magnification and detail of the original photo.  At that point this

>whole discussion will be silly.  If anyone left junk anywhere on Mars, we'll  

>know by '94


It is important to note that much the same was said of the Hubble Space Tele-

scope prior to its launch.  Oh yes, they said, we'll be able to see planets

orbiting distant stars - maybe even find evidence of extraterrestrial life!

But the equipment failed - just like the probe that located the Mars Face.

And I wouldn't be too surprised if the marvellous Mars Observer inherits some

strange post-launch "malfunction" just like many of its more recent

predecessors.  Shouldn't we give the Mars Face a little more attention, if

for no other reason than to spur a government into actively seeking to

inform its public about the Face's true nature?


>Bruce


I think it imporant for us to verify for once and for all the existance or

non-existance of alien life, and this is the perfect opportunity.  Who knows

what may be contained in the pyramids 15km away from the Face?  Are the

pyramids naturally occurring geological formations that just happen to be

near the Face?  Are they somehow linked to the Face's history?  What can they

tell us about alien civilizations?  These and similar questions make it

important for everyone from those who want to expose a giant government

coverup to those who are curious to justify the expense and effort involved

in findining out.


It is for this reason I believe that a dedicated probe should be constructed

and sent to gather additional information about the Face - examine it from

every angle - determine its exact contours, learn if the pyramids are hollow,

learn if the pyramids are pyramids, etc.  And in the interests of time,

plans should be made to send anthropologists and archaeologists to the site

of the Face and pyramids with the first manned mission to Mars, to perform

more detailed examinations - examinations impossible or impractical for

probes.  Plans such as this should be made now even on what little information

we have, given the potential importance of such an expedition's findings.



 ---------------------------------------------------------------

|R. Ross Holder, Jr.             | Home Address:                |

|(roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca) | 410-424 River Avenue         |

|Department of Philosophy | Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada   |

|The University of Manitoba | R3L 0C6   PH#: (204) 478-1744|

 ---------------------------------------------------------------

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!coert!doctor

From: doctor@coert.uucp (Daniel Klugh)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <LJwegB1w164w@coert.uucp>

Date: 19 Feb 92 19:05:20 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue>

Organization: COERT BBS (614) 268-0179

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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4544 sci.space:26833 sci.skeptic:20833 alt.paranormal:4427


behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:


> Hi,

> I had posted  the PYRAMIDS.JPG picture in various news-groups.

> I'm just wondering what You think about the Pyramids on mars ??

> Did You already take a look at it and what do You think about it ?

> Only optical delusion or proof of soemthing unexplainable ?

> Let me know !


Maybe the Doctor Who story "Pyramids of Mars" wasn't a story at all.


> Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for

> Decentral Energy Research

> email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de



                The Doctor


doctor@bluemoon.uucp

doctor@bluemoon.rn.com

doctor@bsbbs.uucp

doctor@coert.uucp

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!news.bbn.com!bbn.com!ncramer

From: ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: New Topic, or an Old One: Mass Drivers

Message-ID: <kq78umINN6vj@news.bbn.com>

Date: 20 Feb 92 12:49:26 GMT

References: <36709@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>

Reply-To: ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)

Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Interzone Office

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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20836 alt.alien.visitors:4545

NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com


f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Gellis) writes:


>Does anyone have any information or sources on mass drivers...  


Well, speaking only from personal experience, they're _much_ worse the

closer you get to Boston.  Once you get outside 495 it's not noticiably

different from any other rural-ish area.


>I am particularly interested in what might be called "anticipated

>performance data"--how massive are they, ...


I'm not sure this is any of your business.


> ... what kind of payloads will they move...


Dodge Darts seem to be popular.  Lots of Saabs.  Your odd LeBaron... that

sort of thing.


> ... what kind of acceleration will we see (100 gees, 2500 gees?), ....


Your sense of scale here is totally out of line.  "Gee" --even several

hundred "gees"-- may be appropriate to, say, an ohio driver, but for a mass

driver you need something more along the lines of "Oh holy shit".


>Thanks in advance.


Any time.  Please call again.


N

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews

From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: The Shriek of the Looney --Part One--

Message-ID: <110854.29A3A05E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 20 Feb 92 12:57:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ

Lines: 28


In a message to All <13 Feb 92 12:11> Iain Jameson wrote:


 IJ> `Looney' yea shall cry.

 IJ> `Bugger off' yea shall command.

 IJ> But the prophet shall ingore yea and continue to write, and write

 IJ> and write, into the wee small hours - of things unknown and, so far,

 IJ> unsaid. In a style that will cause much confusion to the educated.


 IJ> By his writings shall yea know the prophet. By the billions of bits

 IJ> of information shall he come amoung you, the blind, and show you

 IJ> the truth. And the truth shall be written by the prophet for all

 IJ> to see. For there is no getting away from the words of the prophet.

 IJ> Kill files will avail you not, for the prophet writes much, and

 IJ> is a master of disguise, and yea shall not know who to kill, much to

 IJ> your distress.


Ha-HAAAA-Ha-ha-ha-hahahahaha!


Cheers, Iain!


Best,

  Clark



--  

Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo

From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann)

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: Face on Mars FAQ posting

Message-ID: <87LZGMC@zelator.in-berlin.de>

Date: 20 Feb 92 10:54:27 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.182950.1@fnalf.fnal.gov>

Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System

Lines: 38

Xref: ns-mx sci.space:26840 alt.alien.visitors:4547 sci.skeptic:20837 alt.paranormal:4429


Hmm,

I think You forgot to mention, that there are nearby the face (15 Km away) a few

"pyramids", which are more interesting, than the "face", because such

rectangular and symetrical shadows can only be produced by something artificial!

We should focus onto the "pyramids" in our discussion , because the face could

also be a "well" illuminated mountain !


By the way, I have uploaded the 3 mars-pictures in JPEG format to the new

UFO-FTP-site. Here comes the info:



Hi to all UFO-sighting-pictures interested people !


 now I have found a FTP site, where we could store digitized  and scanned

 UFO-sighting pictures !

 It is phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) and the directory is

 /pub/ufo_and_space_jpgs

Try to look for new pictures and utlities how to view them regulary.

If you also have  one or a few pictures to submit, please drop them to

/pub/incoming.The friendly sysop Jari will move them then to ufo_and_space_jpgs.


In this moment, there are only the 3 marsface and mars-pyramid-pictures I

have scanned from a book. But I will soon upload a lot more stuff, so we could

have a good discussion based on sightings-photos and not only words and talk !

Try to follow also the discussion in alt.alien.visitors-newsgroup !


Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for

Decentral Energy Research

email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de



-- 

 

*******************************************************************************

*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *

*  EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de                                            *

*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *

*******************************************************************************

Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo

From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic

Subject: UFO-pictures-FTP-site created !!!

Summary: ufo

Keywords: ufo

Message-ID: <G8LZVOC@zelator.in-berlin.de>

Date: 20 Feb 92 11:03:41 GMT

Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System

Lines: 42

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4548 sci.space:26841 alt.paranormal:4430 sci.skeptic:20838


Hi to all UFO-interested researchers out there,


here comes an info about the new created UFO-pictures-FTP-site.


The Sysop Jari was very kind to allow us to store the pictures and discussion

files about UFOs over there in Finland.


Please keep download in a limited way, cause they only have a 64 Kbits/sec.

line to Helsinki. In this moment already the access is very often verry slow !


Is there another site, that would like to create a mirror of this archive in

the US and one in Germany. Please Sysops contact me by email to create such

mirrors. Now the info:



Hi to all UFO-sighting-pictures interested people !


 now I have found a FTP site, where we could store digitized  and scanned

 UFO-sighting pictures !

 It is phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) and the directory is

 /pub/ufo_and_space_jpgs

Try to look for new pictures and utlities how to view them regulary.

If you also have  one or a few pictures to submit, please drop them to

/pub/incoming.The friendly sysop Jari will move them then to ufo_and_space_jpgs.


In this moment, there are only the 3 marsface and mars-pyramid-pictures I

have scanned from a book. But I will soon upload a lot more stuff, so we could

have a good discussion based on sightings-photos and not only words and talk !

Try to follow also the discussion in alt.alien.visitors-newsgroup !


Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for

Decentral Energy Research

email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de



-- 

 

*******************************************************************************

*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *

*  EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de                                            *

*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *

*******************************************************************************

Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson

From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage

Subject: Re: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control

Message-ID: <5661@shodha.enet.dec.com>

Date: 20 Feb 92 13:30:23 GMT

Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com

Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors

Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4549 alt.conspiracy:12368 talk.religion.newage:9397



In article <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes...

>  ** From Phoenix Liberator January 7, 1992 Volume XVII Number 12 **

>  Topic:REPTILIANS AND LITTLE GRAYS 



        Another paradnoid scitzophrinic surfaces.   Go back to sleep.


        Steve Food_for_the_Grays

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring

From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins

Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality and grossly misposted maunderings

Keywords: wasted bandwidth, time, energy

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.134205.4882@rhrk.uni-kl.de>

Date: 20 Feb 92 13:42:05 GMT

References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1011@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> <1992Feb19.195824.20912@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> <7tdhp6k@lynx.unm.edu>

Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de

Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany

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In article <7tdhp6k@lynx.unm.edu>, rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:

>I've noticed in the last few days an increasing number of postings to 

>talk.origins that are cross-posted to groups like

> sci.skeptic

> alt.paranormal

> alt.alien.visitors

>If those who are posting this *ahem* "stuff" would take the time to direct

>their replys to The One Appropriate Group I would appreciate it, and perhaps

>other readers would as well.  Thank you in advance!


I started the whole thing, and I started it with these lines:

ME>When you followup to this, please edit the newsgroups line if

ME>you want to relate only to some of the subjects!


I posted it to all those groups because I had examples for this

way of thinking coming from UFOlogy, creationism, and psi.

What is the One Appropriate Group? Probably sci.skeptic?


-- 

-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----

Because the hypothesized anomalous effect is not easily accommo-

dated within the prevailing scientific world-view, it is parti-

cularly important to assess the trustworthiness of each reviewed

experiment.  -  Radin and Nelson

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!lll-winken!taco!rock!mcnc!duke!cs.duke.edu

From: jek@cs.duke.edu (this space for rent)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: A possible source of UFOs

Message-ID: <698574393@juliet.cs.duke.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 08:26:34 GMT

Sender: jek@duke.cs.duke.edu

Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

Lines: 79


(the last four or so paragraphs of this article deal with the title

matter, so skip there if you like)


Not feeling much like doing my coursework, I have been poking around

on USENET to see what is out here.  A quick scan over the alt.sex.*

groups provided limited amusement (not to mention some nappy gifs I

rather wish I hadn't seen) & alt.ketchup is good for a few yocks.  But

*this* group is... unique.  I don't believe I have ever seen anything

more whacko in my life!


As far as I can tell, there seem to be two general types of UFO

"theories":


1) The new-age "Ashtar" or whatever theories which remind me of the TV

show "Star Blazers" (i.e. the Yamato anime movies) for some reason.

In these, some UFOs are our happy friends who want to help us be all

that we can be and will save us from the mean ETs.  These theories are

somewhat dreamy and pleasant and provide an amusing escape from the

cold reality of life on Earth.


2) The conspiracy "They Live"/"V" type theories in which ETs are out

to capture us and cook us up for dinner.  These theories provoke fear

into the hearts of the gullible but don't seem to serve any real

purpose, other than, perhaps, big laughs for the originators.


Each group of theories seems to have its own supporters.  Of course,

the two general groupings are not mutually exclusive, i.e. the bad

aliens can sure be coming to get us while the good aliens are trying

to help us out.


Here are some things to think about:

First, in reference to Class 1 theories (nice aliens): if all of

this is true, why haven't the aliens helped us out more?  We could

have avoided numerous bloody wars this century alone... If the

answer is the Prime Directive ("noninterference"), then why do we

know about them at all?


Second, in refence to Class 2 theories (bad aliens): if aliens are

super powerful, etc., why would they bugger around infiltrating our

governments and forcing us to use flouridated toothpaste and all when

they could just come and kick our asses?  Furthermore, why the hell

would they give a crap about us in the first place?  If they want to

have our planet to live on why don't they just wipe us all out (no

AIDS theories, please! ;)?  Or better yet, terraform another planet to

have all to themselves?  And what else could they possibly want from

us?  If they are as technologically able as it would seem, they

certainly must not need slaves, right? 


   *    *    *


This group is, in a certain way, amusing.  For the most part, however,

it disturbs me to see so many people living beyond the bounds of

reality.  If the UFO phenomenon is "real", it is not a product of

external influences on Earth, it is the product of rapid change.  Our

technology has outstripped the ability of our culture to cope with

change.  People are suddenly faced with the choice of either adapting

or losing their marbles.  The nonsense flying around here (esp. that

Phoenix thing... whew!) is ample evidence for the latter.  


I am not suggesting technological regression as a solution, by the

way.  I just think we need to work on developing ways to adapt

culturally to the way we are changing our lives.  Then we won't have

all these people falling through the cracks and turning to UFOlogy for

comfort and/or stimulation.  It is easy for the skeptics and such to

just point a finger to the posters (Don Allen comes to mind) of

this... stuff...  and say "Loony!".  Unfortunately, these people are

just tails of a "normal" distribution which centers somewhere around

people who like "professional" wrestling & tractor pulls & who watch

_A Current Affair_.


Although I don't pray, I do earnestly hope we will be able to adapt

our culture to the reality of who we are and what we are doing (as a

people) so that this decline in to mindlessness and worse is reversed.


And no, I am no psychologist or sociologist or anthropologist.  But

everyone is allowed to have their pet theories, right?  And this would

seem to be a place to spout most *anything* forth... :)


--james

Path: ns-mx!uunet!tellab5!jcj

From: jcj@sunGb.tellabs.com (jcj)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re^2: Livermore Tests 2KW Laser Beam

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.145842.24968@tellab5.tellabs.com>

Date: 20 Feb 92 14:58:42 GMT

References: <jms.07bt@vanth.UUCP>

Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News)

Distribution: na

Organization: Trough and Brew

Lines: 10

Originator: jcj@sunGb

Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb



>Did we *really* have to bring this into the conspiracy theory arena?

>There's no reason to believe that it's for anything other than its intended

>scientific purpose.


No way!  The New Beam Riders of the Purple Stage will pinhole those little

grey noseless bastards and Orionid Hemorrhoids into cosmic dust!  Yahoo!

Drill 'em, Dusty! 

-- 

jcj@tellabs.com

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL

From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: lucid dreams, OOBEs, etc. [was: Dreamland]

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.163025.26817@cco.caltech.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 16:30:25 GMT

References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>,<jms.07ej@vanth.UUCP>

Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu

Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU

Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera

Lines: 28

Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20845 alt.paranormal:4433 alt.alien.visitors:4553

Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu


In article <jms.07ej@vanth.UUCP>, jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:

>In article <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> randall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (randall embry) writes:

>

>[experiences deleted]

>

>>In the book "The Road Less Travelled," the author (Peck?) cites a 1972

>>university experiment that "proved" subjects could project images to

>>nearby sleeping subjects.  Anyone heard about this?

>

>First off, I changed the subject line because the word "Dreamland" has a

>particular meaning in alt.alien.visitors.  I also deleted sci.space from

>the newsgroups because I couldn't see any relevance.

>

>It would be my guess that rather than projecting your dreams to other

>people, you might have been having some sort of out-of-body experience.  It

>would be interesting to try to prove that it was real rather than imagined

>by contacting one of the people from your dreams in real life.


Then there's always the possibility that the dreams were influenced by a common 

outside stimulus, which would be practically impossible to control for.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL


Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My

understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So

unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my

organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to

hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.

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From: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 16:18:17 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> 

 <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>

Reply-To: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)

Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU

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In-Reply-To: noring@netcom.com's message of 19 Feb 92 18:04:40 GMT


Jon

If I were to say that people with acne were actuallt Martians in

disguise, would you say:

a) He's full of shit.

b) I can not form an opinion, but the burden of proof is on him.


Although what you said about skepticism being a two edged sword is

correct, there are certain ideas that can be quickly flushed without

resorting to experimentation, etc.


Like pyschotics being ingabited by demon.


Or people with acne being Martians.


--

Gerry Roston (gerry@cs.cmu.edu) | IX - The enumeration in the Constitution,

Field Robotics Center,          | of certain rights, shall not be construed

Carnegie Mellon University      | to deny or disparage others retained by the

Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | people.

(412) 268-3856                  | 

                                | 

The opinions expressed are mine | 

and do not reflect the official | 

position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | 

or any other organization.      | 

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From: eyal@vis.toronto.edu

Newsgroups: rec.travel,misc.misc,news.misc,tor.general,ont.general,ut.general,alt.alien.visitors,tor.news,soc.college.gradinfo,ut.dcs.gradnews

Subject: Apartment for summer sublet

Keywords: toronto, apartment, sublet

Message-ID: <92Feb20.111306est.8702@orasis.vis.toronto.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 16:13:30 GMT

Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto

Lines: 16

Xref: ns-mx rec.travel:21212 misc.misc:7168 news.misc:4099 alt.alien.visitors:4555 soc.college.gradinfo:1467



 

********** APARTMENT FOR SUMMER SUBLET **********



Downtown Toronto,

From May 17th until Aug 15


Large 1 bedroom apartment (Christie and Bloor)

good location, across from park, walk to university

Fully furnished and equipped.


non smoker


call (416) 536-5273 (leave message)

email: eyal@vis.toronto.edu

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!glasgow!bru-cc!cs89ssg

From: cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk (Sunil Gupta)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space,sci.skeptic,sci.physics

Subject: Re: Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!

Summary: hmmmmm

Keywords: mars face

Message-ID: <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk>

Date: 20 Feb 92 14:01:53 GMT

References: <behse.698489924@tubue>

Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK

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In article <behse.698489924@tubue>, behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:

> Hello,

> I just have posted the 2 missing pictures from the book:

> Leben auf dem Mars(live on  mars) by Joh. von Buttlar,


well this is the reply from nasa (telnet  128.158.13.250)


=======START=====MESSAGE FROM NASA======10-Feb-92==10:55:00

The "face" on Mars is an interesting geological feature that resembles a face

because of its structure and pattern of shadows.

=======END=======MESSAGE FROM NASA=========================



its odd though Ive seen another mars "face" picture" but that in comaprison was

smaller and much sharper. The image that was posted appears to be no only

processed but touched up by hand. (The original showed the surrounding

landscape aswell. ) NOnetheless the phenonema is peculiar and undoubtedly we

will hear more if and when a manned mission arrives on Mars



-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

           Sunil Gupta ---- member of the studentsoft project


cs89ssg@uk.ac.brunel          studentsoft@uk.ac.brunel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage

Subject: Re: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control

Message-ID: <29A3D176.7417@tct.com>

Date: 20 Feb 92 16:04:06 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp>

Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4557 alt.conspiracy:12381 talk.religion.newage:9403


Don Allen believes in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.


'Nuff said.

-- 

Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>

      "Informix 4GL is not a 4G, and it's barely an L."  -- John Tombs

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb

From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Crop Circles

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.171357.14364@tcom.stc.co.uk>

Date: 20 Feb 92 17:13:57 GMT

References: <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> <2417@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.182031.9159@cs.cornell.edu>

Sender: news@tcom.stc.co.uk (System Administration)

Reply-To: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)

Organization: STC Telecomms, New Southgate, London, N11 1HB

Lines: 11


Hi all,

In Cambridgeshire, England, last year another "circle" of some 

mathematical interest appeared. It was roughly heart-shaped with circles of 

various sizes around it. In fact it was strikingly similar to a mandelbrot set,

a complicated mathematical figure which can only be represented by a fractal.


And it was awfully pretty.


I think they're going to be even better this year.


Pat

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From: mcirvin@husc10.harvard.edu (Mcirvin)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas

Summary: On Things We've Seen Before

Keywords: Open-minded skepticism

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 18:35:27 GMT

References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com>

Organization: Harvard University Science Center

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Nntp-Posting-Host: husc10.harvard.edu


In article <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

>

>And why do I say this?  Well, it's pretty obvious from reading many postings

>on Usenet that many (but not all) scientists and engineers are fairly

>intolerant (read:  hostile) of ideas and theories that run counter to what they

>were taught and now believe.  And they will go through incredible effort to

>act on their hostility and attempt to suppress any scholarly discussion.  Of

>course, I ask, why the hostility?  (Maybe a psychologist can answer this.)

>

Often it's because, even if they've seen no evidence pro or con, the

ideas put forth are remarkably similar to ideas they've seen put

forth and never supported many times in the past.  Ideally we would

have the time to judge every new proposition on its own merits, but

when you've seen the Ph--------ia Ex------nt thread, or some incredible

vacuum electrogravitic free energy machine, come up for the nth 

time, it is hard to remain open-minded.


This, of course, does not excuse rudeness or total blindness to

extraordinary claims, and we have to watch ourselves.  I was led

for a while by the detection of certain buzzphrases to reject

Tom van Flandern's statements about relativistic celestial

mechanics as severely misguided until I read the actual text

carefully and discovered that all of his factual statements were

correct.  His claims are not even extraordinary, but since his

descriptions of gravitational forces include words like

"instantaneous" I immediately assumed that he was a standard-

issue paradoxer.  I was quite wrong.


Matt McIrvin

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From: fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Frank T Lofaro)

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>

Date: 20 Feb 92 18:03:39 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>

<GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu>

Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

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In-Reply-To: <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu>


From alt.paranormal (USENET): 20-Feb-92 Re: Dreamland Gerry

Roston@cs.cmu.edu (919)


>Jon

>If I were to say that people with acne were actuallt Martians in

>disguise, would you say:

>a) He's full of shit.

>b) I can not form an opinion, but the burden of proof is on him.


>Although what you said about skepticism being a two edged sword is

>correct, there are certain ideas that can be quickly flushed without

>resorting to experimentation, etc.


>Like pyschotics being ingabited by demon.


>Or people with acne being Martians.


That is a somewhat hollow argument. You are comparing the statement

being tested to something that is obviously ridiculous and then using

that as the basis for attacking the original statement. While it would

be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by

demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many

of them are. If someone gets possessed by a demon (which I *do* believe

happens, though not very often), they will appear to unenlightened

science to be mentally ill. Modern science does not comprehend, nor is

it intended to explain, phenomina that deal with non-physical entities,

such as demons. Scientists do not understand the soul, spirits, and

demons and how they affect what appears to them to be the "real" world.


There is *much* more to the world, than just the physical plane.


--------------------------------------------------------------

Frank Lofaro

Carnegie Mellon University

fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (128.2.11.131)

FLofaro+@cmu.edu (128.2.35.186)

Disclaimer: If it isn't related to UNIX, don't hold me responsible for

my statements.

--------------------------------------------------------------

HELLO, I'm a signature virus!  Join in the fun and copy me into yours!

--------------------------------------------------------------

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From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.183623.23228@mprgate.mpr.ca>

Date: 20 Feb 92 18:36:23 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <LJwegB1w164w@coert.uucp>

Sender: spani@G (Leonard Spani)

Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd.

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In article <LJwegB1w164w@coert.uucp>, doctor@coert.uucp (Daniel Klugh) writes:

|> behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:

|> 

|> > Hi,

|> > 

|> > I had posted  the PYRAMIDS.JPG picture in various news-groups.

|> > I'm just wondering what You think about the Pyramids on mars ??

|> > Did You already take a look at it and what do You think about it ?

|> > Only optical delusion or proof of soemthing unexplainable ?

|> > Let me know !

|> 

|> Maybe the Doctor Who story "Pyramids of Mars" wasn't a story at all.

[sigs deleted]



Take a close look at the face on Mars...


It is a cyberman!



;-)


Leonard




-- 

***********************************************************************

| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |

| spani@mprgate.mpr.ca  |       \\?!//         | t                    |

***********************************************************************

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From: Steelo@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Steelo)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16d291ab@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 18 Feb 92 16:43:23 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 3

In-Reply-To: Scourge@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)


Not a planet...a star.  I come from Alpha Centauri.


---

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From: Steelo@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Steelo)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16d2918d@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 18 Feb 92 16:42:53 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

Lines: 3

In-Reply-To: Alan.Hunter@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Alan Hunter)


Socrates was a pilot.  He flew.


---

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From: Scourge@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16d270c9@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 18 Feb 92 14:23:05 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

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In-Reply-To: Amoeba@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Amoeba)



 Little boys called Timmy Wimmy do tho...


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From: Scourge@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Forum

Message-ID: <16d3d34f@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 19 Feb 92 15:35:43 GMT

Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184

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In-Reply-To: Steelo@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Steelo)



 Hate to inform you of this, but ther is no life on Alpha Centuri(Which IS a planet... (Earth is a star as well... using light reflected from the sun... basic 4th form science stuff...))


---

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spdcc!rdonahue

From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com>

Date: 20 Feb 92 22:36:40 GMT

References: <1992Feb16.203759.22078@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.221238.2596@spdcc.com> <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

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jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:


>> Not that surveying the older stars are any picnic either...


> I imagine that Lovelock would suggest looking for worlds whose

>atmosphere is in what should be chemical disequilibrium. Lots of O2,

>for example, suggests there must be something producing it continually.


Huh? Um... *how*?


We can't even detect them (extra-solar planets) as it is yet,

let alone differentiate between their atmospheric constituencies...


Bob

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From: mitch@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Crop Circles and Science News...

Message-ID: <6071@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>

Date: 21 Feb 92 00:34:34 GMT

Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU

Distribution: na

Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

Lines: 14



I just stopped by the library to have a look at the

Feb 1, 1992 issue of Science News.

Guess which issue is the only one missing!

It _must_ be a conspiracy! :-)


Anyway, is there an ftp site somewhere that has 

some of these images?


--

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DISCLAIMER:

"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown

"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman

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From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.095411.11184@cc.newcastle.edu.au>

Date: 20 Feb 92 22:54:11 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

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In article <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:

> ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes:

>>> If I'm paying the tax bill, what I favor is a robot IMAX camera where

>>> the wind sounds are recorded in 8 channel,  dolby,  THX, etc.  If we did 

>>> that,  then millions could come close to "going" to Mars,  without anyone

>>> actually going.  We have the pictures from Apollo,  but they don't convey 

>>> the awesome feeling of standing on the moon.  I want the experience.

>>Y O U    C A N - 

>>All you have to do is watch the MARS NAVIGATOR database on the Macintosh PC - 

>>a touch-screen based videodisk product which is based on the Viking 3 surface 

>>pictures of the Mars landscape. I think it was Industrial Light and Magic who

>>added the 16-bit stereo sound and the 3-d enhancement of the fly-over footage.

> I've always been impressed by ILM, but this tops it!  They have data from a 

> probe that never existed! (there were only two Vikings). I've been thinking

> about doing something like this for Venus.  If anyone has any information 

> about programming codes, let me know.

> Josh Hopkins

Josh (and others), I (CCASM) did NOT write the item re IMAX camera above, Bill

Case @ infonode.ingr.com did.


I did reply to Bill with information supplied by Apple Computer Aust. I just

checked my notes. It was Cameron McDonald Stuart, the Apple Aust. National

Education Systems Engineer who said it was "Viking 3" - who am I to know?

Perhaps he meant Apollo. It matters not. The MARS NAVIGATOR software is the

point of the discussion. It will probably have the right info in its database.

For anyone interested, as Bill was, in "going to MARS" it comes as close as you

can get at the moment.


Big Al.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!ispd-newsserver!laidbak!tellab5!jcj

From: jcj@sunGb.tellabs.com (jcj)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Where are th AZ/NM references?

Message-ID: <1992Feb20.230458.15326@tellab5.tellabs.com>

Date: 20 Feb 92 23:04:58 GMT

Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News)

Organization: Trough and Brew

Lines: 12

Originator: jcj@sunGb

Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb



Awhile ago, somebody made a series of claims re: Apache attack 'copters,

roadblocks, etc. involved in a "CEIII"-like series of events in Arizona or

New Mexico.  He said he'd post specific references to local newspaper 

articles allegedly written about this.  Were they posted and I missed

them?  Thanks.

-- 

  jcj@tellabs.com

"...they walk amoung us ...our friends from the Pleiades and the Lyra group

.. They will help us... For they are old and wise, and we have yet to 

discover a pastry that will not go soggy in the microwave."

~The Shriek of the Looney (Book III)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys

From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off

Message-ID: <6900@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>

Date: 21 Feb 92 00:54:45 GMT

References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au

Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au

Lines: 46


In <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca> roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr) writes:


>I think it imporant for us to verify for once and for all the existance or

>non-existance of alien life, and this is the perfect opportunity.


The face will not prove the existence or non-existence of alien life.  If it

is not a face, then we are no closer to knowing if there are aliens or not.

If it is indeed a face, then we have one of the following possibilites:


1. It's a freak formation of nature.

2. It was created by aliens many many moons ago.

3. It was created by aliens very recently (e.g. when they discovered

   that we were starting to get onto the road to space, and wanted

   to let us know that they are there).


If 1, then we have neither proved nor disproved the existence of aliens.  If 2,

then it doesn't prove that aliens exist _now_.  Just that they may have

existed sometime in the past.  It also doesn't prove that aliens don't exist

now either.  3 is the best bet, but not many people seem to give that one

credence, and there are easier ways to let us know they are there.  There's

also a fourth possibility (less likely than 1, 2 or 3):


4. It was created by us before conditions on Mars degraded and forced

   us to move to Earth many many moons ago (I don't really put much

   store in this one, but it's a remote possibility - VERY remote).


If it's this one, then we haven't proved that aliens existed.  Only that

we were a little smarter in our early years than we thought we were.  But

we haven't proved that aliens don't exist either.


The "face" and the "pyramids" bear closer examination.  But no closer

examination than any other rock or feature on Mars.


Cheers,


Rhys.


P.S. I believe there are some pretty strange things that have happened over

     the last 40 years, of which aliens is one possible explanation.  But

     I have a healthy skepticism and keep my mind open.


+=====================+==================================+

||  Rhys Weatherley   |  The University of Queensland,  ||

||  rhys@cs.uq.oz.au  |  Australia.  G'day!!            ||

||       "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"         ||

+=====================+==================================+

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!news.hawaii.edu!uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!osborne

From: osborne@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Larry N. Osborne)

Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas

Summary: Expecting tolerance in sci.skeptic or scientific methodology

Keywords: Pointless cross-postings

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.010546.21356@news.Hawaii.Edu>

Date: 21 Feb 92 01:05:46 GMT

References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu>

Sender: root@news.Hawaii.Edu (News Service)

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Nntp-Posting-Host: uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu


In article <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu> mcirvin@husc10.harvard.edu (Mcirvin) writes:

>In article <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

>>

>>And why do I say this?  Well, it's pretty obvious from reading many postings

>>on Usenet that many (but not all) scientists and engineers are fairly

>>intolerant (read:  hostile) of ideas and theories that run counter to what they

>>were taught and now believe. ... 

>>

>Often it's because, even if they've seen no evidence pro or con, the

>ideas put forth are remarkably similar to ideas they've seen put

>forth and never supported many times in the past.  Ideally we would

>have the time to judge every new proposition on its own merits, but

>when you've seen the Ph--------ia Ex------nt thread, or some incredible

>vacuum electrogravitic free energy machine, come up for the nth 

>time, it is hard to remain open-minded.

>

>This, of course, does not excuse rudeness or total blindness to

>extraordinary claims, and we have to watch ourselves. 


There are also those who _enjoy_ irritating people who don't have the

same frame of reference.  It seems to me that posting OOBEs to

sci.skeptic is asking for a bashing, similarly the skeptics who

monitor alt.alien.visitors in order to point and laugh are morally

repugnant.  At one time I had sci.skeptic in my kill file, but there

were so many cross-posts that I was missing much of interest to me.  A

case in point is the Ph. Ex. refered to above.  The physicists are

only going to get upset and drown the thread with flames (I mix a

mean metaphor).


The article to which I'm following up, for example, was posted to:

sci.skeptic, sci.physics, alt.sci.physics.new-theories,

alt.paranormal, alt.alien.visitors, and sci.energy.  You may as well

try giving a wine tasting for an AA group(1) ... its impolite and only

causes ill-feelings.  (Although alt.sci.physics.new-theories is

probably the exception, there seem to be a majority of rational and

polite scientists there.)


For those on either side of the arguments, who claim that they are

attempting to educate the other, I say it's obvious that that approach

doesn't work.  Just ignore them, or, if they ask a question, answer

them briefly and politely.  I realize it's a lost cause, but limiting

cross-postings to groups inhabited by the same species would make for

fewer flamefests.


-oz


(1) This analogy was chosen on purpose, since many of us _need_ the

support of the like-minded.

--

osborne@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu (preferred)      | Larry N Osborne

osborne@uhunix.bitnet                           | SLIS, 2550 The Mall

fax +1 808 956 5835                             | University of Hawaii at Manoa

or via W.A.S.T.E.                               | Honolulu, Hawaii  96822

Path: ns-mx!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua

From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.014725.17430@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

Date: 21 Feb 92 01:47:25 GMT

References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!

Lines: 15


someone who should know better(?) writes:


>It is important to note that much the same was said of the Hubble Space Tele-

>scope prior to its launch.  Oh yes, they said, we'll be able to see planets

>orbiting distant stars - maybe even find evidence of extraterrestrial life!

>But the equipment failed - just like the probe that located the Mars Face.


I wasn't aware that the vikings failed.


this same person went on to say 'and probably this one will fail too';

isn't that jumping the gun a bit? I mean, wait for it to fail mysteriously,

then start into the conspiracy theories.



josh

Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!kasprj

From: kasprj@operators.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control

Message-ID: <9+ss3vh@rpi.edu>

Date: 21 Feb 92 02:39:32 GMT

References: <5661@shodha.enet.dec.com>

Organization: The Big Wedge

Lines: 24

Nntp-Posting-Host: operators.its.rpi.edu


In article <5661@shodha.enet.dec.com> timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) writes:

>

>In article <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes...

>> 

>>  ** From Phoenix Liberator January 7, 1992 Volume XVII Number 12 **

>> 

>>  Topic:REPTILIANS AND LITTLE GRAYS 

>

>

>        Another paradnoid scitzophrinic surfaces.   Go back to sleep.

>

>        Steve Food_for_the_Grays


 No way! I love this stuff. I'm not sure which group you read this on, 

because of the wide crossposting, but here on alt.conspiracy, I live for

the UFO stuff. It's so much more entertaining than the stupid who-shot-

JFK babble or the infantile antisemitic prattlings of bARF and the b-cpu

gang. 

------------------------------------------------------------------

     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...

 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA

/____ *| Disclaimer: RPI pays me to work, not to think.

     \_| "A spirit with a vision is a dream with a mission" -Rush

      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 

Path: ns-mx!uunet!jwt!gary

From: bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Date: 19 Feb 92 06:14:50 GMT

Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login)

Organization: The Matrix

Lines: 40



     Hello from the world of the wierd and strange.  This is Gary 

Stollman, back from the Twilight Zone once again to give you an 

idea of what has been going on lately in MY world.  


     It seems that I have been responsible for bringing Jesus back 

to Earth, and have been through so much in the past month or two

it would take (practically) a lifetime to tell it all!  


     What I can tell you is that my family and friends are still 

being exchanged by demons or aliens or whatever.  My mom had a 

stroke, and is here now in our apartment in LA, trying to 

recuperate from the paralysis which has left her immobile.  The 

two "nurses" treating her are demon clones who have taken the 

place of the real people, and they keep switching my real mom back 

and forth with the fake one, whom they serve.  My father is also 

being switched with a fake clone constantly.  As have been my two 

sisters and my other relatives and friends.  These things are 

demonic in nature, and I have asked God for help, and he has 

answered my pleas!


     In the past few weeks, I have been transported by God to the 

parallel dimension, where these beings come from, and back again.  

The end result of this is that I have been responsible for the 

start of the Second Coming of Christ.  Jesus is here now, and he 

is going to take care of things in a hurry!  I have had the power 

of God at my fingertips, as apparently I was the "Number 9" spoken 

about in the musicians records, like the Beatles.  I have been 

able to move through dimensions like through air, and I have 

helped God to stop these things from taking us over.  There is 

little more to say now, except tell everyone you know to pray, 

long and hard!  It will help.  


     These things have taken over all the hospitals and so forth 

in LA, and the phone systems around the country.  They have a base 

somewhere where they are holding the REAL people they have cloned.  

If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely!  It is time to 

stand up and be counted as human beings, not some kind of play-

things.  This is Gary Stollman, signing off from LA, California, 

USA.  

Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsh!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2

From: press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Summary: CNN and Clones

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com>

Date: 21 Feb 92 04:28:24 GMT

References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

Lines: 17


In article <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:

>      These things have taken over all the hospitals and so forth 

> in LA, and the phone systems around the country.  They have a base 

> somewhere where they are holding the REAL people they have cloned.  

> If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely!  It is time to 

> stand up and be counted as human beings, not some kind of play-

> things.  This is Gary Stollman, signing off from LA, California, 

> USA.  



Hi Gary,


I watch CNN alot...alot...alot..."`)twassle ummph, and I haven't

noticed anything unusual. What is it we should look for?


barry--

Path: ns-mx!uunet!haven.umd.edu!ncifcrf!fcs260c2!toms

From: toms@fcs260c2.ncifcrf.gov (Tom Schneider)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space,sci.skeptic,sci.physics

Subject: Re: Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!

Summary: silly silly silly

Keywords: mars face

Message-ID: <2794@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>

Date: 21 Feb 92 04:25:48 GMT

References: <behse.698489924@tubue> <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk>

Sender: news@ncifcrf.gov

Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors

Organization: NCI Supercomputer Facility, Frederick, MD

Lines: 23

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4576 alt.paranormal:4445 sci.space:26875 sci.skeptic:20884 sci.physics:17828


In article <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk> cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk (Sunil Gupta) writes:

>NOnetheless the phenonema is peculiar and undoubtedly we

>will hear more if and when a manned mission arrives on Mars


No, the only peculiar thing is how you think it means something.  Our brains

are probably wired to respond to anything that looks like a face, whether it is

there in reality or not.  Look at some clouds or an ink blot!  Go read this:


@article{Kendrick1987,

author = "K. M. Kendrick

 and B. A. Baldwin",

title = "Cells in Temporal Cortex of Conscious Sheep

Can Respond Preferentially to the Sight of Faces",

journal = "Science",

volume = "236",

pages = "448-450",

year = "1987"}


  Tom Schneider

  National Cancer Institute

  Laboratory of Mathematical Biology

  Frederick, Maryland  21702-1201

  toms@ncifcrf.gov

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews

From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: New Topic, or an Old One: Mass Drivers

Message-ID: <111028.29A43C64@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 20 Feb 92 16:12:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ

Lines: 26


In a message to All <19 Feb 92 18:00> Mark Gellis wrote:


 MG> Does anyone have any information or sources on mass drivers/linear

 MG> accelerators?



You mean Rail Guns?  Or something else (like Bull Guns?)  Rail Guns are electrically powered, Bull Guns (named for Gerald Bull) are chemically powered.


 MG> I am particularly interested in what might be called "anticipated

 MG> performance data"--how massive are they, what kind of payloads will they

 MG> move, what kind of power requirements

 MG> are involved, what kind of acceleration

 MG> will we see (100 gees, 2500 gees?), and so on.


No idea about performance data, but 100 g would have to be the absolute minimum.  Very few payloads can withstand them.  Max payload for railguns is a few pounds (could be more, but that's what I heard several years ago).  Dr. Bull was experimenting with artillery payloads over over a ton, though.  His guns were principally *not* orbital guns, but extreme long-range artillery.


He designed two such guns for Iraq in the late '80s (to counter Israel's Gabriel ICBMs and H-bombs).  Only one was actually completed, but it was not ready when the war came.  The Mossad murdered Dr. Bull in Brussels three years ago.


Best,

  Clark



--  

Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews

From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: This Forum

Message-ID: <111027.29A43C62@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 20 Feb 92 15:59:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ

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In a message to All <19 Feb 92 12:05> Amoeba wrote:


 Am> microorganisms don`t have eyes.

 Am> Amoeba


Or brains.



--  

Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!glasgow!degnans

From: degnans@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Easter Beagle)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: jpeg viewer required

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.093852.22818@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>

Date: 21 Feb 92 09:38:52 GMT

Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

Lines: 12


So now we've got a ufo ftp site.


All the pictures are in jpeg format!


So how's 'bout a jpeg viewer from someone?



L&K,



Stephen

.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring

From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Crop Circles

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.125941.23172@rhrk.uni-kl.de>

Date: 21 Feb 92 12:59:41 GMT

References: <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> <1992Feb17.111438.21406@gibdo.engr.washington.edu>

Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de

Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany

Lines: 55


In article <1992Feb17.111438.21406@gibdo.engr.washington.edu>, tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu writes:

>In article <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu>nikos@cs.cornell.edu (Nikos P. Pitsianis) writes:

[..]

>>|>II) For an equilateral triangle, the ratio ot the areas of the

>>|>    circumscribed and inscribed circles is 4:1.

[other similar things deleted]

>

>I think the open-minded (but not so open your brains ooze out your

>ears) skeptic (the type I like to be) would say: Yes, but is the claim

>that these theorems have never been stated before true or false?

>Statements such as: "This is too trivial to be important" or "someone

>*must* have come up with this somewhere" are rather useless, I think.

>If we take the poster at his word that he looked everywhere he could

>for them and he couldn't find them, I would say it is up to *us* to

>find them somewhere. If we can't we have to look at what the discoverer

>claims to be his source (the circles) and the explanation as to how

>they inspired him, and see if that explanation is reasonable.


This whole thing is very similar to the Dinosaur Sketch from

Monty Python's Flying Circus, where Miss Anne Elk, guest in a

TV talk show, is interviewed because she has a new theory about

the brontosaurus.  It takes a lot of asking from the host and

a lot of "Ahem. Ahem." until she proudly presents that her theory

is: "All brontosauruses are thin at one end, much MUCH thicker

in the middle, and then thin again at the far end."


You see my point?  This has probably never been stated before too,

and it's evident to every person who knows anything about

dinosaurs, like those "theorems" are immediately evident to every

person who understands geometry.


>The man, staring at shapes he *believed* to be made by intelligent

>beings,

You want to say there is any serious doubt of that?


>searched so hard for meaning that he found it in the form of

>five as yet undiscovered theorems. [..] No, after showing that 

>the theorems are probably new, we would

>need evidence that the very layout of the crop circles was *designed*

>to lead to the discovery of these theorems and again determine if this

>seems reasonable.


As you can find Elk's Theory by looking at an image of a

brontosaurus, you can find geometric relations by looking at

an image of geometric figures.  But I don't assume that anyone

would draw a brontosaurus with the intention of making somebody

else find this "new theory".



-- 

-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----

Because the hypothesized anomalous effect is not easily accommo-

dated within the prevailing scientific world-view, it is parti-

cularly important to assess the trustworthiness of each reviewed

experiment.  -  Radin and Nelson

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!spdcc!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!ispd-newsserver!dj

From: dj@ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones 253-1987)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!

Keywords: mars face

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.140553.1561@ssd.kodak.com>

Date: 21 Feb 92 14:05:53 GMT

References: <behse.698489924@tubue> <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk> <2794@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>

Sender: news@ssd.kodak.com

Organization: Eastman Kodak

Lines: 36


In article <2794@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov> toms@fcs260c2.ncifcrf.gov (Tom Schneider) writes:

>In article <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk> cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk (Sunil Gupta) writes:

>>NOnetheless the phenonema is peculiar and undoubtedly we

>>will hear more if and when a manned mission arrives on Mars

>

>No, the only peculiar thing is how you think it means something.  Our brains

>are probably wired to respond to anything that looks like a face, whether it is

>there in reality or not.  Look at some clouds or an ink blot!  Go read this:

>

<reference and sig deleted>


Agreed.  Anyone who has further questions should inspect the shadow cast

by the putative face.  That's the shadow cast by a conical formation,

a.k.a. a mountain.  If ETs had carved a face to be seen from any

angle, not just from overhead, it would have been much flatter.


Same goes for the "pyramids": the shadows cast by near-perfect cones are

the same as those cast by pyramids.  For a light source at infinity,

with little or no atmosphere, the light coming in at a low angle as in the

pictures, the shaded side of the cone has sharp edges.  Show me a sharp

edge anywhere in the sunlit side and I might believe in pyramids.  Oh,

if you wonder where the cones came from, check out some terrestrial

volcanos.


Final note: the random cratering that covers the surface of Mars clearly

occurs on both face and pyramids.  Those formations are *old*, certainly

much older than the human race, maybe even older than life on this

planet.  ETs would have had to be extremely farsighted to get the

features of our faces right in advance!  (Spare me the "inevitable

evolution" argument.  There ain't no such animal.)



-- 

| Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com) --------------------------|

| Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY 14653-7300                      |

| C++ will do for C what Algol-68 did for Algol! -----------------|

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!claris!szebra!spectrx!system

From: system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: .. .

Message-ID: <s1oFgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>

Date: 20 Feb 92 08:20:27 GMT

References: <andh!zanoring@netcom.com>

Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca

Lines: 14


noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:


> In article <1992Feb19.215536.75751@cs.cmu.edu> kji+@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Kathi

> >... .. .. .  /.. . ... . ... .

> >/.. 

> O.K., I give up, what does this mean?


probably morse code, though I can't read it


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aaron Anderer, System Operator                system@spectrx.saigon.com

SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1 408 252 1005              szebra!spectrx!system          

NO MORE BUSH!          Write in Cuomo for '92!        NO MORE BUSH!

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!masscomp!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona

From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy

Subject: 3CI-GWEN-ELF,Tesla and the Military part 1/2

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.063756.16287@bilver.uucp>

Date: 21 Feb 92 06:37:56 GMT

Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL

Lines: 350

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4583 alt.conspiracy:12423



This is part of a recent Phoenix Journal that you ones might be

highly interested in. As usual, I make *no* claims on the material

and you are free to do with it as you like.

---------------------------------------------------------------------




   THE PHOENIX LIBERATOR 


  JANUARY 14, 1992 VOLUME XVII NUMBER 13 



  ** Introduction To Hatonn ** 


  I am Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn,Commander in Chief, Earth Project Transition, 

  Pleiades Sector Flight Command, Intergalactic Federation Fleet. You may 

  call me Hatonn. I am come in service unto the ONE GOD of Lighted 

  Creation, and as "Host" unto His people who will be brought into His 

  places long prepared for you.  My own "Captain" is Sananda, the Christed 

  Being you have called by many names--now one *with* Creator/Creation. 

  [Sananda: simply meaning of/with God]. We are not "mystical" nor even 

  "mysterious" aliens.  We are the "Hosts" sent in preparation for His 

  return, bringers of Truth according to His promise and to reveal the lies 

  foisted upon you to claim your souls for the physical evil Elite 

  controllers.  We come in total love and without intent of force,coercion 

  or judging.  "Judging" is a state of evaluation of self in the presence 

  of Creator in which _actions_ in the physical experience are evaluated.  


  The information within the documents revealing Truth, _The Phoenix 

  Journals_ and _Liberator_, are the outlays of lies and hidden facts for 

  which you can find confirmation.  If you don't know the problems and the 

  source of the problems, you can have no solutions.  


  I do not "channel" ; I transmit on a frequency attuned to my "receiver" 

  who is simply a translator of the pulses into English. This is true of 

  all receivers who receive from any of this Command come forth with God 

  for this transition of species and planet.  


  The receivers mostly have no reference for material given until after the 

  giving and then, only for their own confirmation and yours.  My petition 

  is that you pay no attention to this _resource_ if it is confusing and 

  uncertain unto you--LET TRUTH STAND ALONE IN ITS PRESENTATION--THE REST 

  WILL FOLLOW IN PROPER SEQUENCE. 



  ** End of Introduction ** 


  Date:1/4/92 #2 HATONN 


  Topic:TODAY'S WATCH


  What I am going to reprint herein is material which can get a lot of 

  people very "dead". I don't even see a way to acknowledge source without 

  undue focus.  For the present I will simply thank "knowing" ones.  There 

  WILL come a day of acknowledgment and appreciation unto you daring 

  ones--but alas, it is not this day.  I have written recently regarding 

  beams, and beam bases--flying craft and "proclaimed aliens".  I have 

  drawn pictures for you which are so outrageous that even in the local 

  sector there is total disbelief.  Well, what I have given you is true, 

  ultra-top secret, and very much REAL. We will first speak of the hidden 

  hands on the switches and the military uses of the electromagnetic 

  spectrum.  I will not complicate the lives of ones herein by giving 

  minute detail but I will give you enough to support Truth and, hopefully, 

  cause you to think and stop hiding in the sand-bucket.  


  Topic:MILITARY STRATEGY 


  The current military strategy of the United States does not rest on 

  nuclear weapons or elite strike forces, but is instead based on a 

  doctrine known as 3CI or C(3)I.  (This stands for command, control, 

  communications, and intelligence.) Through 3CI, the relative strength of 

  your forces against those of the Soviet Union is constantly assessed, and 

  the intent of the Soviets to deploy and use their forces against you is 

  determined.  3CI provides intelligence to accomplish this task, as well 

  as the means to communicate with and control your forces and to command 

  them to counter perceived and actual threats.  The overall intent of this 

  military doctrine is to know, instantaneously and at all times, the exact 

  status of your forces and those of a particular enemy.  Weapons systems 

  are simply the instruments that are used to deter or respond to an 

  attack.  The military group provides powerful incentives for releasing 

  forbidden impulses, inducing the soldier to try out formerly inhibited 

  acts which he originally regarded as morally repugnant.  Your total 

  military system has become an analog of a living organism, constantly 

  sensing its environment, integrating information, and reaching decisions, 

  and then acting on those decisions by using the appropriate weapons 

  systems.  The "central nervous system" of your nation's global military 

  organism is based on information-carrying electrical impulses that are 

  transmitted by electromagnetic fields.  Its sensory organs are microwave 

  scanners, satellites, and sophisticated devices designed to listen to an 

  enemy's radio transmissions.  Instead of nerves, it uses radio 

  communications with frequencies ranging from ELF (extra low frequency) to 

  superhigh microwaves.  The muscles of the military organism range from 

  ground troops to nuclear missile systems.  There are a number of "brains" 

  in the organism, located both in the continental United States and in 

  various overseas locations.  The organism is capable of operating on its 

  own, with only the theoretical restraint of approval from the White 

  House. Every aspect of 3CI depends upon the unrestricted use of all 

  frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum at unlimited power 

  densities.  Now, please, realize that this is not new information and we 

  have written extensively about this system.  What is important this day 

  is that you must realize you have now joined forces with "that enemy" and 

  you have no control of anything you have in space.  The enemy has 

  absolute and total superior capability.  The last of the network was 

  hooked up and tested sufficiently on New Year's Day.  Fortunately you are 

  still present to ponder it for if the testing system had ignited the 

  radioactive belt about your planet--you would really have a hot-foot by 

  now.  You-the-people will be brought into control and submission in a 

  number of very sophisticated ways--through these systems which will send 

  out instructions and everything from music to biological diseases.  


  Topic:A LITTLE PERTINENT HISTORY 


  This military doctrine evolved following the end of World War II and was 

  then shaped by two factors.  The first was the practical experience of 

  using electromagnetic fields for communications and sensing (primarily 

  radar) during the Korean War. Do you not find it interesting that Bush is 

  in Korea this very day?  The second factor was the later availability of 

  transistorized equipment and the development of exotic electronic sensing 

  and communication systems, which occurred during the Vietnam conflict.  

  Vietnam was the proving ground for the basic concepts of 3CI, and it has 

  been characterized as the first all-electronic war--from manipulation of 

  individual personnel to misadventures with herbicides and mass control.  

  A number of advanced technologies were tested--for example, long-range 

  reconnaissance patrols operating far behind Vietcong lines were equipped 

  with solar-powered, high-frequency radios.  These devices enabled members 

  of a patrol to communicate with one another via military satellites 200 

  miles up in space and to be in instantaneous communication with the White 

  House. Note that I did not say "President". The President at a given time 

  is only a show-piece utilized by the Elite Planners and there are several 

  replicas of the one you see moving about here and there.  Also, remember, 

  that since that Vietnam War thousands of those Viet Cong have been 

  shipped to Mexico, entered your U.S. nation, and stand ready, willing and 

  able to blow every major dam and bridge in your nation--all the way to 

  the Arctic.  They are special troops trained in demolition and will blow 

  every strategic "crossing" facility of every major city, etc., on cue.  I 

  have written extensively about this--in detail along with the Communist 

  (Soviet) equipment and personnel already in Mexico and now crossing your 

  borders--in full view now that you are such good "friends"--tanks and 

  all.  You are going to have to get the JOURNALS if you have any desire to 

  get informed at all.  You can "excuse" until doomsday but it won't change 

  an iota of your circumstance.  You can throw stones at Hatonn and 

  denounce and deny--but if you want the Truth and how it IS--get the 

  material we have furnished you!  There will never again be opportunity 

  for such investment in your survival and passage.  We cannot bring the 

  price of the material down any further for there is a constant deficit in 

  production of over $20,000 a month in trying to get you informed!  I can 

  only ask that you honor and support America West and our writers for you 

  hold the gift of life and survival as well as Truth of "passage" in your 

  hands.  So be it.  This system, the doctrine of 3CI, has matured into a 

  global scale based on maximum utilization of electromagnetic energy and 

  pulse systems--mostly through the sophisticated testing on the military 

  "soldiers" (troops) in that Vietnam War. Two things happened; in the 

  physicals and injections, etc., the soldiers were implanted with 

  "receiver chips" whereby the instructions could be sent directly and 

  individually as well as in group reception.  As other substances were 

  "tested" the manipulation could be studied by differing experiments and 

  enhancement of any transmission by direct control.  The only restriction 

  ever placed on this military doctrine since its inception was derived 

  from the period of time immediately following World War II and during the 

  beginning of the "Cold War". In the early 1950's, the Department of 

  Defense recognized the need for some sort of "safe exposure standard" for 

  microwaves.  This led directly to the establishment of the Tri-Services 

  Program, based in the Rome Air Development center in Rome, New York, 

  which was given the task of determining this standard.  However, even 

  before the Tri-Services Program began, the military eagerly adopted the 

  concept that only thermal effects were damaging to living organisms.  

  Based solely in calculations, the magic figure of 10 milliwatts per 

  square centimeter was adopted by the Air Force as the standard for safe 

  exposure.  Subsequently, the thermal-effects concept has dominated policy 

  decisions to the complete exclusion of nonthermal bioeffects.  While the 

  10 mW/cm2 standard was limited to microwave frequencies, the thermal 

  concept was extended to all other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum.  

  Unless it heated tissue, electromagnetic radiation was thought to be 

  harmless, so there were no limits placed on exposure to frequencies below 

  microwave.  


  Topic:THE CONSPIRACY 


  The military organism was designed on the 10-mW standard and, once in 

  place, it had to be defended against the possibility of nonthermal 

  bioeffects.  The recognition and validation of these effects would mean 

  the collapse of the total organism and the death of 3CI. By the early 

  1970's it was fully apparent that scientists and engineers involved in 

  the program were sucked into a massive conspiracy--especially in the 

  early programs involving electrical control systems and the bioeffects of 

  electromagnetic fields.  It was quickly seen that evidence for nonthermal 

  effects was viewed as a total threat to national security.  Safety was 

  not a consideration, because the military mind-set of the time held that 

  despite the lack of actual hostilities, you were in a state of war with 

  the Soviet Union--and dear ones, it has never before or since been 

  otherwise.  It was known that your ability to prevail in that conflict 

  required the virtually unlimited use of electromagnetic energy for all four

  facets of the 3CI doctrine. This view led to the policy of denying any

  nonthermal effects from any electromagnetic usage, whether military or

  civilian. To accomplish this policy objective, several specific actions were

  taken, as  follows: Control over the scientific establishment was maintained

  by allocating research funds in such a way as to ensure that only "approved"

  projects--that is, projects that would not challenge the thermal-effects

  standard--would be undertaken.  Further, the natural reactionary tendency 

  of science was capitalized upon by enlisting the support of prominent 

  members of the engineering and biological professions.  In some 

  instances, scientists were told that nonthermal effects did occur, but 

  that national security objectives required that they be exceptionally 

  well established before they became public knowledge.  Many scientists' 

  goals were subverted by unlimited grant funding from the military and by 

  easy access to the scientific literature.  The formal scientific 

  establishments of the United States were mobilized.  When serious 

  challenges to the thermal-effects standard were raised publicly, eminent 

  scientific boards, associations, or foundations were provided with 

  lucrative "contracts" to evaluate the state of knowledge of bioeffects of 

  electromagnetic fields.  These investigations resulted in the production 

  of voluminous "reports". All of those reports shared certain 

  characteristics.  Scientific data indicating nonthermal bioeffects were 

  either ignored or subjected to extensive and destructive review.  Those 

  examined were required to have much higher standards of possible validity 

  than reports indicating no such bioeffects.  Scientists who reported the 

  existence of nonther-mal bioeffects were ridiculed and were portrayed as 

  being outside of the mainstream, nuts and nit-wit troublemakers.  Actual 

  disinformation was utilized and still is, to create a false impression: 

  for example, while a statement such as "There is no evidence for any 

  effects of pulsed magnetic fields on humans" would have been literally 

  true, it would have ignored the many reports of such effects on 

  laboratory animals and the fact that no actual tests had been conducted 

  on humans.  It was common practice to include an "executive summary" with 

  the massive report.  These summaries never reflected the data that were 

  actually hidden in the full report.  A group of "manufactured" experts 

  was produced to serve as spokesmen and expert witnesses.  Does this all 

  sound familiar?  How about a few "UFO experts" which are never backed-up 

  and yet the public is always given the old "...there is no evidence to 

  back up.......".  Further, the reporters will give you this line 

  immediately after giving you a report on present "evidence". It will all 

  be mechanically "read" to you with a "new type of grasshopper found in 

  South Africa" having just as much emphasis and importance as given a 10.6 

  earthquake in Indiana. These were people with few qualifications for 

  research in this (or any) scientific field related or otherwise, who were 

  provided with magnificently large research grants and placed on many 

  committees, boards, and international governmental commissions dealing 

  with the bioeffects of electromagnetic energy.  Superficially, they 

  appeared to be prominent researchers, until one discovered that the 

  actual number of scientific papers they had produced was minimal or nil.  

  These "experts" were, and still are, used to testify in legal proceedings 

  dealing with civilian installations such as power lines and 

  microwave-relay systems.  Scientists who persisted in publicly raising 

  the issue of harmful effects from any portion of the electromagnetic 

  spectrum were discredited, disposed of and/or literally "taken-out" or 

  "adjusted"--whichever better serves the ongoing purpose.  An "adjusted" 

  person can still be functionally active according to the "new 

  programming".  


  Topic:WILL THE GOVERNMENT DENY ALL THIS MATERIAL I BRING?  


  Of course--through the UFO disinformers, conspirators, etc.  But worse, 

  they don't really mind the information now flowing to you-the-people for 

  early on it is recognized that most of you readers will simply deny it 

  and throw it out.  Then, as proof is brought forth it will be used to 

  show you how "trapped they were" and "had to cover it for your own good" 

  and "after all, those nasty little aliens made us do it!"  In other 

  words, there is such a mess going on that they don't really know HOW TO 

  BREAK THE NEWS TO YOU WITHOUT GIVING THEIR OWN "COVER" AWAY. THAT WILL 

  NOT BE IN POINT A BIT LATER ON AFTER YOU HAVE NO GUNS!  In fact, chelas, 

  much of the confirming information comes to us via undercover operatives 

  of the government itself--hoping we use it to set up the uncovering 

  scenario above.  It is simply one of the higher forms of deceit and 

  insulting usage of your intelligence.  Despite the application of these 

  measures, the question of harmful effects did not go away but instead 

  increased in intensity.  The position of the government has thus been 

  forced to change.  The government's initial complete denial of any 

  nonthermal effects was followed by acceptance of some nonthermal effects, 

  although these were characterized as being unimportant and transient.  At 

  present, the official position is that while there are some nonthermal 

  effects that may be harmful, further study is required before any sudden 

  action is taken.  These studies are going on, but all are under the aegis 

  of either the Defense Department or the industry involved.  And, of 

  course, this only includes the range of electromagnetic spectrum in 

  point--it does not include beam weaponry as such.  The policy objective 

  as presented has been achieved, and the exposure of both civilians and 

  military personnel to electromagnetic radiation continues.  You are not 

  dying of cancers caused by sugar in your pop--you are a planet being 

  radiated to death!  There has not been given you an exposure safe chart 

  like your ideal weight charts.  That is because you are all in terminal 

  contamination with no intent to change the thrust.  There is ample 

  reason, chelas, to be pretty sure that it basically remains pretty fixed 

  at the now discredited 10 mW/cm2 standard, or even higher in certain 

  essential situations.  The reason given is the lead time needed for 

  weapons-system development--in other words, the ends justify the means 

  and disinformation.  After all, you are only servants and intended slaves 

  for the Elite. Also, there are too many of you anyway and that alone is a 

  major problem--you are nothing except laboratory test animals to this 

  group of would-be rulers.  Operation at lower power levels would 

  materi-ally degrade system performance, allegedly producing a situation 

  hazardous to national security.  Deployment of powerful and exotic 

  electromagnetic systems continues, with little, if any, consideration 

  given to the potential impact of these systems on the health and safety 

  of the public.  


  Topic:THE GROUND-WAVE EMERGENCY NETWORK (GWEN) 


  While there are many such weapons systems, the GWEN system is a 

  particularly good example.  GWEN is a communications system which has now 

  been connected and major construction completed (putting a lot more 

  workers in the unemployment lines).  It operates in the very low 

  frequency (VLF) range, with transmissions between 150 and 175 kHz.  This 

  VLF range was selected because its signals travel by means of ground 

  waves--electromagnetic fields that hug the ground--rather than by 

  radiating into the atmosphere.  This is a dandy way to get across the 

  Arctic regions and encircle the globe quite effectively and most 

  easily--i.e., that touted "Woodpecker" system.  This also accounts for 

  the "Wormwood" code--because it can burrow like an earthworm without 

  interference by any substance--right through rock, water, etc.  It is a 

  bit confused by large pools of oil and/or fat cells.  A chubby body is 

  not always such a bad thing to have if you are in line of direction or a 

  target for the individual take-out beams.  The only protection on Earth 

  comes from the frequencies our Command can offer to physically disrupt 

  the pulses.  I suggest you remember that when you denounce your higher 

  brethren.  The signals drop off quite sharply with distance, and a single 

  GWEN station transmits to a 360-degree circle radiating out from it to a 

  distance of about 250 to 300 miles.  So now you have it--a need for 

  repetitive relay stations--a full GRID, if you will.  This is now in 

  total operation in conjunction with the Elite to every part of the 

  globe.  In addition the Elite warriors have a total blanket of 

  Cosmospheres and Platforms to insure control of that system.  These are 

  NOT hostile "aliens" unless you call a "foreign person" an "alien". The 

  GWEN system consists of stations, each with a tower 300-500 feet high and 

  you won't think anything about them other than "television", "radio", 

  phone relays, etc.  The stations are spaced from 200 to 250 miles apart, 

  so that a signal can go from coast to coast by hopping from one station 

  to another.  The back-up is a total system which also bounces off 

  satellites so that, as of now, 1992, the entire civilian population of 

  the United States (and world) are exposed to these GWEN transmissions.  

  The rationale for the existence of this network is the government's 

  projected concept that nuclear war is winnable if a fail-safe 

  communications system is available for use during and following a nuclear 

  attack.  It is more deceit to make you fork up the manpower and money for 

  the system without having to resort to the "black budget black-hole".  

  Such a system, they will tell you, would permit the U.S. to order its 

  nuclear-missile submarine fleet to launch an attack against the aggressor 

  nation.  The physical nature of nuclear war requires that this system 

  operate by ground-wave transmission.  Big Brother is really taking care 

  of you little citizens!  


--------------------Continued in GWEN part 2 -------------------------------


Don


-- 

-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?

Internet: dona@bilver.uucp  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM

UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"

Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!danwell

From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!

Keywords: mars face

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.090431@IASTATE.EDU>

Date: 21 Feb 92 15:04:31 GMT

References: <behse.698489924@tubue> <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk> <2794@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>

Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System)

Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)

Organization: Iowa State University

Lines: 23


In article <2794@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>, toms@fcs260c2.ncifcrf.gov (Tom Schneider)

writes:

                           [references deleted at end]

>Sunil Gupta writes:

>>Nonetheless the phenonema is peculiar and undoubtedly we

>>will hear more if and when a manned mission arrives on Mars

>

>    No, the only peculiar thing is how you think it means something.  Our

>brains are probably wired to respond to anything that looks like a face,

>whether it is there in reality or not.  Look at some clouds or an ink blot!


   I remember reading an article in Science 86, not long before it folded,

about the horrible time that industrial light and magic had simulating faces.

They were sure they had done as good a job on the faces as everything else

and yet the faces looked fake.  Their working hypothisis is that the human

brain is exceptionally good at recognizing faces.


>   Tom Schneider

>   National Cancer Institute

>   Laboratory of Mathematical Biology

>   Frederick, Maryland  21702-1201

>   toms@ncifcrf.gov

Path: ns-mx!uunet!tellab5!jcj

From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.145353.24991@tellab5.tellabs.com>

Date: 21 Feb 92 14:53:53 GMT

References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com>

Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News)

Organization: Trough and Brew

Lines: 15

Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb


In article <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:


>> If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely!  It is time to 

>

>I watch CNN alot...alot...alot..."`)twassle ummph, and I haven't

>noticed anything unusual. What is it we should look for?


They screwed up the Lynn Russell clone's hair color.  And I mean

BIGTIME.

-- 

  jcj@tellabs.com

"...they walk amoung us ...our friends from the Pleiades and the Lyra group

.. They will help us... For they are old and wise, and we have yet to 

discover a pastry that will not go soggy in the microwave."

~The Shriek of the Looney (Book III)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!masscomp!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona

From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy

Subject: 3CI-GWEN-ELF,Tesla and the Military part 2/2

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.064118.16384@bilver.uucp>

Date: 21 Feb 92 06:41:18 GMT

Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL

Lines: 503

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4586 alt.conspiracy:12425





  -------------------------GWEN part 2-----------------------------------



  Topic:ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSE (EMP) 


  One aspect of nuclear war that is not well publicized is the EMP 

  phenomenon. This becomes VERY IMPORTANT because you WILL experience it.  

  An electromagnetic pulse is a very short, intense burst of 

  electromagnetic energy that is produced by the explosion of a nuclear 

  weapon in space. If an EMP were produced by a nuclear explosion 100 miles 

  above Kansas City, for instance, its energy would be so intense that it 

  would shut off ALL electric-power systems, destroy all computers and 

  magnetic disks or tape records, destroy the guidance systems of missiles 

  and the computer and communication systems of military and commercial 

  aircraft, and shut down all radio communications--ACROSS THE ENTIRE 

  UNITED STATES! The military organism would be decapitated. In the military 

  scenario, the United States would then be faced with capitulation or 

  nuclear destruction. Theoretically, ground-wave communications would still 

  be possible. However, the theory is tenuous.  The GWEN hardware is 

  transistor based; even if placed in "hardened" bunkers, it would be 

  vulnerable to an EMP. In addition, the EMP would produce major ground 

  currents in the path of the GWEN signals that could decrease their 

  transmission capabilities. Finally, the locations of all GWEN stations are 

  known to the enemy and thus are vulnerable to attack.  Not such a good 

  show, is it? Nonetheless, the military mind (whew--mutually exclusive 

  terms) has conceived of using the GWEN network to maintain communications 

  following such a decapitating EMP attack.  This is not the place for a 

  full argument concerning the values and options of nuclear war, but in my 

  opinion the reason for the existence of this system is specious in itself 

  as for between-the-lines assumptions.  Dear ones, nuclear war is not 

  "winnable". All may not perish--but the war is NOT WINNABLE. FOR THIS 

  VERY REASON, YOU HAVE BEEN LEFT DEFENSELESS WITHOUT SHELTERS WHILE 

  BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS HAVE BEEN POURED INTO UNDERGROUND 

  FACILITIES FOR SECURITY OF THE ELITE PUPPET-MASTERS. You WILL wake up or 

  you WILL perish. The potential harm to the civilian population from the 

  operation of GWEN has not been addressed. GWEN is a superb system, in 

  combination with cyclotron resonance, for producing behavioral 

  alterations in the civilian population. The average strength of the steady 

  geomagnetic field varies from place to place across the various 

  geological areas such as the United States. Therefore, if one wished to 

  resonate a specific ion in living things in a specific locality, one 

  would require a specific frequency for that location. The spacing of GWEN 

  transmitters 200 miles apart across the United States would allow such 

  specific frequencies to be "tailored" to the geomagnetic-field strength 

  in each GWEN area. This piece of information is well-known to the 

  "Planners" of the network and, of course, is in full capability of 

  operation NOW. What of these various in-point frequencies?  Why doesn't 

  someone in your wondrous UFO community demand a bit of sharing with one 

  frequency "expert" who is only annoyed with plagiarism (which objection 

  will be more understandable now), etc. Why don't you check out the 

  "frequency tables" of your beloved brother, Cathie. Does he know all 

  this? Oh, Chelas, spare me! You have accomplished the sophistication of the 

  newest in "killing fields". Dharma, allow us a break so that this can be 

  edited while we work on the next writing. We need this to the public 

  without delay.We are making progress and ones who will hear and see 

  deserve the best that we can offer. Salu.  


  Date:1/4/92 #3 HATONN/TESLA 


  As we write on these subjects, especially regarding pulsing wireless 

  forms of energy--ever comes the inquiry: "Why can't we seem to wireless 

  transmit energy, etc., like Nikola Tesla projected?" You can--you are just 

  not allowed to do so. Energy and transmission of electricity is the energy 

  bondage method of a planet. Do you actually think the Elite money-mongers 

  would allow such a thing as free energy and/or allow healing methods 

  utilizing free energy and magnetic frequency? Grow up, chelas, the world 

  is big and mean and most nasty indeed. A bit later after this writing I 

  will see if there is time and energy left to simply ask Nikola to expound 

  on the subject of wireless transmission and his own experience. I believe 

  you who doubt our presence and resources might be interested if not 

  totally captivated by the access to these higher beings awaiting their 

  ability to work with you when the time becomes feasible.  Let us continue 

  now, however, with the subject at hand and speak of the new killing 

  fields: 


  Topic:ELECTROMAGNETIC WEAPONS 


  While the military was vigorously denying the very existence of 

  bioeffects from electromagnetic-field exposure, such bioeffects were 

  actually being explored as potential weapons--weapons with the enormous 

  advantage of being totally silent and imperceptible. If you are a bit 

  terrified at this point I suggest you are normal and quite rightful in 

  your responses. This is a most deadly game and you are the sitting targets 

  this very day as you are being worn away and debilitated, totally 

  controlled and manipulated almost beyond the point of recovery. The EMP 

  concept has been extended through the development of devices that 

  generate EMP pulses without the need for nuclear explosions. Such devices 

  can be deployed for use against enemy command and control centers or 

  against aircraft in order to produce failure of electronic equipment.  

  This can also be directed against any civilian location and or group. A 

  derivative of this program is HPM (high-power pulsed microwave), a system 

  producing intense, extremely short pulses of microwave.Several types, 

  ranging in frequency from 1200 MHz to 35 GHz with powers up to 1000 

  megawatts, are tested and ready for use. These are also ready for use as 

  weapons against humans and, against these weapons, no gun can even be 

  relatively compared. There is a report which can (or maybe can't be) 

  acquired which deals with the testing program of the Microwave Research 

  Department at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research. It states, 

  "Microwave energy in the range of 1 to 5 GHz, a militarily important 

  range, penetrates all organ systems of the body and thus puts all organ 

  systems at risk." Effects on the central nervous system are considered 

  very important. The testing program, begun in 1986, is divided into four 

  parts: 1) prompt debilitation effects; 2) prompt stimulation through 

  auditory effects; 3) work interference/stoppage effects; and 4) effects 

  on stimulus-controlled behavior. The report goes on to state, "Microwave 

  pulses appear to couple to the central nervous system and produce 

  stimulation similar to electrical stimulation unrelated to heat." It 

  appears that HPM is capable of altering behavior in the same fashion as 

  Delgado's electrical stimulation (which we will not go into herein). The 

  production of cognitive and behavioral alterations by HPM is a 

  sledgehammer effect in comparison to the subtle alterations produced by 

  ELF fields. According to a 1982 Air Force review of biotechnology, ELF has 

  a number of potential military uses, including "dealing with terrorist 

  groups, crowd control, controlling breaches in security at military 

  installations, and antipersonnel techniques in tactical warfare." The same 

  report states, "Electromagnetic systems would be used to produce mild to 

  severe physiological disruption or perceptual distortion or 

  disorientation. They are silent, and countermeasures to them may be 

  difficult to develop." Just know, readers, that a whole group and class of 

  weapons, based on electromagnetic fields, has been pretty well perfected 

  and added to the muscles of the military organism.  The 3CI doctrine is 

  still growing and expanding. The military can and is able to completely 

  control the minds of the civilian population. I make no attempt here to 

  review in any detail the relationship between military considerations and 

  the hazards of man-made electromagnetic fields. This complex and dangerous 

  situation lies outside the scope of this small writing and few would have 

  any understanding regarding the details, except for an indication of how 

  the political policies derived from it have effectively removed the 

  public recognition of the hazards. The military establishment and 

  government fully realize that the survival of the military organism is 

  well worth the sacrifice of the lives, health and life function of large 

  segments of the American population--the goal of conquest has been 

  accomplished. You-the-people have only ONE countering measure and THAT 

  LIES WITH GOD AND WE THE HOSTS. WHICH WILL IT BE, AMERICA? Dharma, 

  appended are some maps of the area in the "Tehachapi's" of the Northrop 

  installation (See inserts later.) wherein the massive underground 

  terminal from Edwards is located. You will note that there are numerous 

  silos for egress and ingress of air-ships with markings of some of the 

  saucer exit/entrance portals with all sorts of landing pods. I suggest you 

  take this very seriously for the structures at Edwards are even more 

  sophisticated, while covered by the rocket launch test area. By the way, 

  these installations are directly tied underground to the JPL labs in 

  Pasadena, California with facilities for immediate evacuation when the 

  earthquake comes or the nuclear war. Only a few are, however, on the list 

  for evacuation. It is totally amazing that so many of you have worked for 

  years on portions of this killer machine and never realized you were 

  involved. Yes, it would boggle the mind. The tunnel itself is made totally 

  flexible at the fault zone with inconceivable strengthening to prevent 

  rupture. In that particular evacuation tunnel connected to a massive 

  underground installation which has radiating "arms" right to the ocean 

  and underground sub bases, craft can travel at several times the speed of 

  sound. Remarkable? No, someone just worked diligently toward their goal 

  while you slept and forgot yours. Overlook the poor quality of the 

  pictures (maps) as you are most certainly NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE THEM. I 

  will not show you pictures of Edwards or other installations for it is 

  far too risky at this time.  Northrup is out in the fringes of desert and 

  isolation and almost "unknown"--I will not endanger any by showing more 

  recognized facilities. There are many of these so-isolated facilities of 

  unknown locations scattered about your landscape--this is only one and is 

  not even particularly large, relatively. It serves a unique purpose or I 

  would not speak of it. I just don't want any readers being shocked when 

  the government and military start producing "little gray aliens", etc.  

  Your very lives and freedom depend on your KNOWING THE TRUTH. I can only 

  remind my own crew that these nerds have to get through ME to get to 

  you--so be it, try it and make my day! Perhaps it is time for me to brush 

  up on my target practice. Hit my people and it is classified by all 

  Universal law as "aggression", and I have right of defense and 

  protection. It could get pretty hot for my beam system is pretty good 

  while leaving no evidence to tell the tale--just pure and simple 

  evaporation! I do not mean "rendering invisible" I mean "rendering 

  evaporated"! I am here to inform my people and instruct them so we can 

  bring them home--we have no intention of interference on your place and 

  we will tolerate no interference in our mission. Mankind as a whole has 

  pretty much decided to go with the evil influences and it is each one's 

  right to do that, but the planet will be cleansed by her own doing and 

  our people will not be left to the terrific holocaust. We will summon ours 

  from the corners of your planet. If the world decides as a whole to change 

  its path--wondrous goodness shall take place. If not, we will gather our 

  own and leave you to your resources. I will step aside and welcome our old 

  friend and comrade, Nikola. Many hours have been spent with this scribe 

  and this rather eccentric brother and I am honored to sit quietly while 

  there is a bit of sharing of memories--not often given since presentation 

  in March of 1904. He is given to honoring the request to share and I bow 

  to this brilliant personage. I salute you and you will make your own 

  connection for I no longer leave my circuit--thank you. I shall, however, 

  bid you good-day.  


  Topic:TESLA REMEMBERS 


  It is lonely I am for a good snow-covered day for communion as we have 

  had in the past with sharing and visitation. It is indeed sad that ones 

  deny the contact and choose their own mystical journeys instead of 

  honoring their contract for service--choosing to "run away" before the 

  cake is finished to the serving. Impatience and greed are the curse of 

  man. It is impossible to resist your courteous request extended on an 

  occasion of such moment in the life of your JOURNAL. Your request has 

  vivified the memory of our beginning friendship, of the first imperfect 

  attempts and underserved successes, of kindnesses and misunderstandings.  

  Always it brings painfully to mind the greatness of early expectations, 

  the quick flight of time, and alas! the smallness of realizations. The 

  following was given to the world but so few paid heed and then, as is the 

  case in the human experiment--the mystery found its way into the hands of 

  evil doers. Let me look back toward the close of your year 1898 in which a 

  systematic research, carried on for a number of years with the object of 

  perfecting a method of transmission of electrical energy through the 

  natural medium, led me to recognize three important necessities: first, 

  to develop a transmitter of great power; second, to perfect means for 

  individualizing and isolating the energy transmitted; and, third, to 

  ascertain the laws of propagation of currents through the earth and the 

  atmosphere. Various reasons, not the least of which was the help proffered 

  by my friend Leonard E. Curtis and the Colorado Springs Electric Company, 

  determined me to select for my experimental investigations the large 

  plateau, two thousand meters above sea-level, in the vicinity of that 

  delightful resort, which I reached late in May, 1899. I take note that 

  the general area is still a bustling center of activity, mostly 

  underground now, for completion of that which I was not destined to 

  finish in my sojourn--now turned to the most heinous of uses in 

  destruction and control of the masses of civilians into imprisonment of a 

  world. I had not been there but a few days when I congratulated myself on 

  the happy choice and I began the task, for which I had long trained 

  myself, with a grateful sense and full of inspired hope. The perfect 

  purity of the air, the unequaled beauty of the sky, the imposing sight of 

  a high mountain range, the quiet and restfulness of the place--all around 

  contributed to make the conditions for scientific observation ideal. To 

  this was added the exhilarating influence of a glorious climate and a 

  singular sharpening of the senses. In those regions the organs undergo 

  perceptible physical changes. The eyes assume an extraordinary limpidity, 

  improving vision; the ears dry out and become more susceptible to 

  sound. Objects can be clearly distinguished there at distances such that I 

  prefer to have them told by someone else, and I have heard--this I can 

  venture to vouch for--the claps of thunder seven and eight hundred 

  kilometers away. I might have done better still had it not been tedious to 

  wait for the sounds to arrive, in definite intervals, as heralded 

  precisely by an electrical indicating apparatus--nearly an hour before. In 

  the middle of June, while preparations for other work were going on, I 

  arranged one of my receiving transformers with the view of determining, 

  in a novel manner, experimentally, the electric potential of the globe 

  and studying its periodic and casual fluctuations. This formed part of a 

  plan carefully mapped out in advance. A highly sensitive, self-restorative 

  device, controlling a recording instrument, was included in the secondary 

  circuit, while the primary was connected to the ground and an elevated 

  terminal of adjustable capacity. The variations of potential gave rise to 

  electric surgings in the primary; these generated secondary currents, 

  which in turn affected the sensitive device and recorder in proportion to 

  their intensity. The earth was found to be, literally, alive with 

  electrical vibrations, and soon I was deeply absorbed in this interesting 

  investigation. No better opportunities for such observations as I intended 

  to make could be found anywhere. Colorado is a country famous for the 

  natural displays of electric force. In that dry and rarefied atmosphere 

  the sun's rays beat the objects with fierce intensity. I raised steam, to 

  a dangerous pressure, in barrels filled with concentrated salt solution, 

  and the tin-foil coatings of some of my elevated terminals shriveled up 

  in the fiery blaze. An experimental high-tension transformer, carelessly 

  exposed to the rays of the setting sun, had most of its insulating 

  compound melted out and was rendered useless. Aided by the dryness and 

  rarefaction of the air, the water evaporates as in a boiler, and static 

  electricity is developed in abundance. Lightning discharges are, 

  accordingly, very frequent and sometimes of inconceivable violence. On one 

  occasion approximately twelve thousand discharges occurred in two hours, 

  and all in a radius of certainly less than fifty kilometers from the 

  laboratory. Many of them resembled gigantic trees of fire with the trunks 

  up or down. I never saw fire balls, but as a compensation for my 

  disappointment I succeeded later in determining the mode of their 

  formation and producing them artificially. Never be dismayed or 

  disappointed at that which is given and which at the moment seems without 

  merit--for it can only open the way into deeper and more profound 

  information as you allow your mind to consider the circumstance.In the 

  latter part of the same month I noticed several times that my instruments 

  were affected stronger by discharges taking place at great distances than 

  by those near by. This puzzled me very much. What was the cause? A number of 

  observations proved that it could not be due to the differences in the 

  intensity of the individual discharges, and I readily ascertained that 

  the phenomenon was not the result of a varying relation between the 

  periods of my receiving circuits and those of the terrestrial 

  disturbances. One night, as I was walking home with an assistant, 

  meditating over these experiences, I was suddenly staggered by a 

  thought. Years ago, when I wrote a chapter of my lecture before the 

  Franklin Institute and the National Electric Light Association, it had 

  presented itself to me, but I had dismissed it as absurd and impossible.  

  I banished it again. Nevertheless, my instinct was aroused and somehow I 

  felt that I was nearing a great revelation. It was on the third day of 

  July--the date I shall never forget--when I obtained the first decisive 

  experimental evidence of a truth of overwhelming importance for the 

  advancement of humanity. A dense mass of strongly charged clouds gathered 

  in the west and towards the evening a violent storm broke loose which, 

  after spending much of its fury in the mountains, was driven away with 

  great velocity over the plains. Heavy and long persisting arcs formed 

  almost in regular time intervals. My observations were now greatly 

  facilitated and rendered more accurate by the experiences already 

  gained. I was able to handle my instruments quickly and I was prepared.  

  You see, it is always good to be prepared and therefore be able to move 

  on without interrupting distractions. If you are, for instance, trying to 

  survive you certainly have no time for invention other than to the 

  problem immediately at hand. I suggest you pay close attention to your 

  friend, Gyeorgos, come forth to give you a hand in your tedious journey.  

  We are not yet of that higher level of total understanding and cannot 

  serve in the same guidance capacity. I, myself, am most limited to my 

  realm of expertise and as of yet have no need of more general "life" 

  knowledge in the "knowingness". I am most happy to be of assistance to 

  you but I feel no obligation nor pressure to serve in that capacity 

  longer. I found my journey on your place to be most disagreeable for the 

  most part--an evil civilization filled with vile vipers. At any rate, back 

  to my story--the recording apparatus being properly adjusted, its 

  indications became fainter and fainter with the increasing distance of 

  the storm, until they ceased altogether. I was watching in eager 

  expectation. Surely enough, in a little while the indications again began, 

  grew stronger and stronger and, after passing through a maximum, 

  gradually decreased and ceased once more. Many times, in regularly 

  recurring intervals, the same actions were repeated until the storm 

  which, as evident from simple computations, was moving with nearly 

  constant speed, had retreated to a distance of about three hundred 

  kilometers. Nor did these strange actions stop then, but continued to 

  manifest themselves with undiminished force. Subsequently, similar 

  observations were also made by my assistant, Mr. Fritz Lowenstein, and 

  shortly afterward several admirable opportunities presented themselves 

  which brought out, still more forcibly, and unmistakably, the true nature 

  of the wonderful phenomenon. No doubt whatever remained: I was observing 

  stationary waves. As the source of disturbances moved away the receiving 

  circuit came successively upon their nodes and loops. Impossible as it 

  seemed, your planet, despite its vast extent, behaved like a conductor of 

  limited dimensions. The tremendous significance of this fact in the 

  transmission of energy by my system had already become quite clear to 

  me. Not only was it practicable to send telegraphic messages to any 

  distance without wires, as I recognized long before, but also to impress 

  upon the entire globe the faint modulations of the human voice, far more 

  still, to transmit power, in unlimited amounts, to any terrestrial 

  distance and almost without any loss whatsoever. With these stupendous 

  possibilities in sight, with the experimental evidence before me that 

  their realization was henceforth merely a question of expert knowledge, 

  patience and skill, I attacked vigorously the development of my 

  magnifying transmitter, now, however, not so much with the original 

  intention of producing one of great power, as with the object of learning 

  how to construct the best one. This is, essentially, a circuit of very 

  high self-induction and small resistance which, in its arrangement, mode 

  of excitation and action, may be said to be the diametrical opposite of a 

  transmitting circuit typical of telegraphy by Hertzian or electromagnetic 

  radiations. It is difficult to form an adequate idea of the marvelous 

  power of this unique appliance, by the aid of which the globe will be 

  transformed. The electromagnetic radiations being reduced to an 

  insignificant quantity, and proper conditions of resonance maintained, 

  the circuit acts like an immense pendulum, storing indefinitely the 

  energy of the primary exciting impulses and impressions upon the earth 

  and its conducting atmosphere uniform harmonic oscillations of 

  intensities which, as actual tests have shown, may be pushed so far as to 

  surpass those attained in the natural displays of static electricity.  

  Simultaneously with these endeavors, the means of individualization and 

  isolation were gradually improved. Great importance was attached to this, 

  for it was found that simple tuning was not sufficient to meet the 

  vigorous practical requirements. The fundamental idea of employing a 

  number of distinctive elements, co-operatively associated, for the 

  purpose of isolating energy transmitted, I trace directly to my perusal 

  of Spencer's clear and suggestive exposition of the human nerve 

  mechanism. The influence of this principle on the transmission of 

  intelligence, and electrical energy in general, cannot as yet be 

  estimated, for the art is still in the embryonic stage; but many 

  thousands of simultaneous telegraphic and telephonic messages, through 

  one single conducting channel, natural or artificial, and without serious 

  mutual interference, are certainly practicable, while millions are 

  possible. On the other hand, any desired degree of individualization may 

  be secured by the use of a great number of co-operative elements and 

  arbitrary variation of their distinctive features and order of 

  succession. For obvious reasons, the principle will also be valuable in 

  the extension of the distance of transmission. Progress, though of 

  necessity slow, was steady and sure, for the objects aimed at were in a 

  direction of my constant study and exercise. It is, therefore, not 

  astonishing that before the end of 1899 I completed the task undertaken 

  and reached the results which I announced in June, 1900, every word of 

  which was most carefully weighed. Much was already accomplished towards 

  making my system commercially available, in the transmission of energy in 

  small amounts for specific purposes, as well as on an industrial scale.  

  You will note that even that far back in counting--facts were held from 

  you for remember that I speak of 1900 at the turn of the century.With 

  that thought in mind can you really be confounded and surprised to find 

  these heinous systems for destruction so sophisticated and perfected?  

  The results attained by me had made my scheme of intelligence 

  transmission, for which the name of "World Telegraphy", easily 

  realizable. It constituted, in its principle of operation, means employed 

  and capacities of application, a radical and fruitful departure from what 

  had been theretofore done. I had no doubt that it would prove very 

  efficient in enlightening the masses, particularly in still uncivilized 

  countries and less accessible regions, and that it would add materially 

  to general safety, comfort and convenience, and maintenance of peaceful 

  relations. You see, in all generations there are we dreamers who believe 

  that man is generally "good" and "sharing" as of God projection--not 

  so--for too late we learn that the adversary called evil and Satanic is 

  always at work in the vineyards ready to steal the tanks of good wine and 

  poison the masses with the sour brew. My outlay involved the employment of 

  a number of plants, all of which are capable of transmitting 

  individualized signals to the uttermost confines of the earth. Each of 

  them would be preferably located near some important center of 

  civilization and the news it received through any channel would be 

  flashed to all points of the globe. A very cheap and simple device, which 

  could be carried in one's pocket, would then be set up somewhere on sea 

  or land, and would record the world's news or such special messages as 

  might be intended for it. Thus the entire earth would be converted into a 

  huge brain, as it were, capable of response in every one of its 

  parts. Little could I then realize that the adversary would utilize such 

  wonders for the deceiving of an entire civilization. Since a single plant 

  of but one hundred horse-power could operate hundreds of millions of 

  instruments, the system would have a virtually infinite working capacity, 

  and it could immensely facilitate and cheapen the transmission of 

  intelligence. Man is so ungracious and cruel to his fellowman as to 

  astound the senses. The first of these central plants would have been 

  completed at that time had it not been for unforeseen delays which, 

  fortunately, had nothing to do with its purely technical features. But 

  this loss of time, while vexatious, was, after all, proven to be a 

  blessing in disguise. The best design of which I knew at the time had been 

  adopted, and the transmitter would emit a wave complex of a total maximum 

  activity of ten million horse-power, one percent of which is amply 

  sufficient to "girdle the globe". This enormous rate of energy delivery, 

  approximately twice that of the combined falls of Niagara, is obtainable 

  only by the use of certain artifices, which I was to make known in due 

  course. For a large part of the work which I did I was indebted to the 

  noble generosity of Mr. J. Pierpont Morgan and the world owes to this one 

  man much of the despoiling and imprisonment of a planet. I was as deceived 

  as any of you present personages by that contractioning viper. I found him 

  most welcome and stimulating, as it was extended at a time when those, 

  who had since promised most, were the greatest of doubters. Little do we 

  see the deceit in the hand which offers assistance and means destruction 

  and theft. I honored my friend, Stanford White, for much unselfish and 

  valuable assistance. The work advanced, and though the results seemed to 

  me to be tardy, they were sure to come. Meanwhile, the transmission of 

  energy on an industrial scale was not neglected. The Canadian Niagara 

  Power Company offered me a splendid inducement, and I felt that, next to 

  achieving success for the sake of the art and gift unto my fellowman, it 

  would give me the greatest satisfaction to make their concession 

  financially profitable to them. In this first power plant, which I worked 

  long at the designing, I proposed to distribute ten thousand horse-power 

  under a tension of one hundred million volts, which I was now able to 

  produce and handle with extreme safety. This energy would be collected all 

  over the globe, preferably in small amounts, ranging from a fraction of 

  one to a few horse-power. One of its chief uses would be the illumination 

  of isolated homes. It would take very little power to light a dwelling 

  with vacuum tubes operated by high-frequency currents and in each 

  instance a terminal a little above the roof would be more than 

  sufficient. Another valuable application would be the driving of clocks 

  and other such apparatus. These clocks would be exceedingly simple, would 

  require absolutely no attention and would indicate rigorously correct 

  time. The idea of impressing upon the earth American time is fascinating 

  and very likely to become popular was my thought on the matter. I was 

  going to be able to offer a great convenience to the whole world with a 

  plant of no more than ten thousand horse-power. How could I know that the 

  carbon fuels would hold the entire world hostage to the thieves of the 

  environment and the civilization? The introduction of that system would 

  give opportunities for invention and manufacture such as have never 

  presented themselves before and were never again presented to the 

  people. Knowing the far-reaching importance of this first attempt and its 

  effect upon what would be future development, I proceeded slowly and most 

  carefully.  Experience taught me not to assign a term to enterprises the 

  consummation of which is not wholly dependent on my own abilities and 

  exertions. I was hopeful that these great realizations would not be far 

  off, and I knew that when this first work would be completed they would 

  follow with mathematical certitude. When the great truth seemingly 

  accidentally revealed and experimentally confirmed would be fully 

  recognized, the planet, with all its appalling immensity, was to electric 

  currents virtually no more than a small metal ball and that by this fact 

  many possibilities, each baffling imagination and of incalculable 

  consequence, were rendered absolutely sure of accomplishment; when that 

  first plant would be inaugurated and it would be shown that a telegraphic 

  message, almost as secret and non-interferable as a thought, could be 

  transmitted to any terrestrial distance, the sound of the human voice, 

  with all its intonations and inflections, faithfully and virtually 

  instantly reproduced at any other point of the globe--and that to be 

  followed by instant reproductions and reflections of images and so forth, 

  the energy of a waterfall made available for supplying light, heat or 

  motive power, anywhere--on sea, or land, or high in the air--humanity 

  could and would be stirred up like an active ant-hill. Oh, the excitement 

  coming was too incredible for me to contain. Ah alas, could it really have 

  been meant that this wondrous gift of gifts would fall into the hands of 

  the Elite evil manipulators and withholders of goodness. My dear old 

  friend, I have rambled on in my memory trek and I see that you must now 

  finger each symbol on a board when there is facility in your time for 

  picking up the thought patterns. I wonder if your people of your time will 

  awaken to their heritage in time to utilize any of these wondrous gifts 

  kept to the Elite deceivers? Ah, it has ever been thus on the planets of 

  dense immorality of experience. The lessons are great but the surge of 

  evil is always so great and the stand with and for God so shallow. I can 

  only wish you well and share that which I have to gift. I look forward to 

  again welcoming you home and I shall keep the teapot at boil so that we 

  can sip and share. How wondrous it would be to succeed in this present 

  mission that man might experience true greatness in his own time of 

  manifestation instead of always succumbing to the demonic thieves of 

  expression. I bid you peace and appreciation for allowing my sharing as 

  our paths are destined to intertwine and for that gift I am most 

  pleased. I bid you good-day and may insight shine upon you as you walk the 

  path. This is Nikola to close with my best blessings upon you who effort 

  to change the journey into a lighted blessing for all--may it come to 

  pass! 


** End of Topic **



Don



-- 

-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?

Internet: dona@bilver.uucp  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM

UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"

Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!rochester!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!netnews.srv.cs.cmu.edu!gerry

From: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu>

Date: 21 Feb 92 15:46:53 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>

<GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>

Reply-To: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)

Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU

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In-Reply-To: Frank T Lofaro's message of Thu, 20 Feb 1992 13:03:39 -0500


In article <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> Frank T Lofaro <fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

   From alt.paranormal (USENET): 20-Feb-92 Re: Dreamland Gerry

   Roston@cs.cmu.edu (919)


   >Jon

   >If I were to say that people with acne were actuallt Martians in

   >disguise, would you say:

   >a) He's full of shit.

   >b) I can not form an opinion, but the burden of proof is on him.


   >Although what you said about skepticism being a two edged sword is

   >correct, there are certain ideas that can be quickly flushed without

   >resorting to experimentation, etc.


   >Like pyschotics being ingabited by demon.


   >Or people with acne being Martians.


   That is a somewhat hollow argument. You are comparing the statement

   being tested to something that is obviously ridiculous and then using

   that as the basis for attacking the original statement. While it would

   be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by

   demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many

   of them are. If someone gets possessed by a demon (which I *do* believe

   happens, though not very often), they will appear to unenlightened

   science to be mentally ill. Modern science does not comprehend, nor is

   it intended to explain, phenomina that deal with non-physical entities,

   such as demons. Scientists do not understand the soul, spirits, and

   demons and how they affect what appears to them to be the "real" world.


   There is *much* more to the world, than just the physical plane.


Frank,

You've got your head shoved so far up your as, you can't see daylight.

If you honestly believe that my argument is any more hollow than the

one about demons, I have a bridge to sell you.  This talk of gods and

demons are hold-overs from our progenitors who could not explain the

world they see.  These stories are suitable for campfires and dolts

who can not form logical explinations for the world around them.  The

only reason that people give these tales more creedacne than my straw-

man is that these tales have been around far longer, they have the

support of very strong political groups and people are afraid to

attack them.


--

Gerry Roston (gerry@cs.cmu.edu) | Society is produced by our wants, and

Field Robotics Center,          | government by our wickedness;...  

Carnegie Mellon University      | Thomas Paine

Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | 

(412) 268-3856                  | 

                                | 

The opinions expressed are mine | 

and do not reflect the official | 

position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | 

or any other organization.      | 

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll

From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

Date: 21 Feb 92 16:42:14 GMT

References: <1992Feb16.203759.22078@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.221238.2596@spdcc.com> <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com>

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Organization: University of Waterloo

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In article <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

>>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>

>>> Not that surveying the older stars are any picnic either...

>

>> I imagine that Lovelock would suggest looking for worlds whose

>>atmosphere is in what should be chemical disequilibrium. Lots of O2,

>>for example, suggests there must be something producing it continually.

>

> Huh? Um... *how*?

>

> We can't even detect them (extra-solar planets) as it is yet,

>let alone differentiate between their atmospheric constituencies...


Oops. I was assuming a century or two of research, to get the

ability to detect extra-solar planets remotely. That is barely within

the realm of possibility, isn't it?


What is Earth's radio noise output like these days? Assuming no

attempt on our part to be noticed by hypothetical ETIs, would it be 

obvious to the ETIs why the sun (or a close companion to it) appeared

to be a major radio source?


James Nicoll

Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!aero.org!robert

From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.173954.29791@aero.org>

Date: 21 Feb 92 17:39:54 GMT

References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Sender: news@aero.org

Organization: Ssaymssik Inc.

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In article <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:

>   [psychotic delusions ommitted]

>


Oh shit, we've got another one. Somebody get the thorazine.....


Bob S.


"Everything you know is WRONG......"

- Firesign Theatre

Path: ns-mx!uunet!infonode!doink!jim

From: jim@doink.b23b.ingr.com (James B. Reed)

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.174622.14330@infonode.ingr.com>

Date: 21 Feb 92 17:46:22 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu>

Sender: jim@doink (James B. Reed)

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Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.

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In article <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu>, gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:

|> This talk of gods and

|> demons are hold-overs from our progenitors who could not explain the

|> world they see.  These stories are suitable for campfires and dolts

|> who can not form logical explinations for the world around them.


So your basic assumption is that any explanation that involves God or a

demon is not logical.  That demonstrates your beliefs and biases but it

has nothing to do with logic.


Using logic on your statement (and assuming you statement is true), we must

conclude that Isaac Newton was a campfire.  He believed in God, but he

certainly was not a dolt who could not form logical explanations for the

world around him.


I removed sci.space from the Newsgroups line because this discussion doesn't

belong there.  You can respond to me via email if you wish.


-- 

James B. Reed                | If at first you don't succeed,

DAZIX, An Intergraph Company | Find out why,

jimreed@b23b.ingr.com        | **THEN** try again.

(205) 730-8874               |

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb

From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)

Newsgroups: rec.travel,misc.misc,news.misc,tor.general,alt.alien.visitors,tor.news,soc.college.gradinfo,ut.dcs.gradnews

Subject: Re: Apartment for summer sublet

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.164802.2847@tcom.stc.co.uk>

Date: 21 Feb 92 16:48:02 GMT

References: <92Feb20.111306est.8702@orasis.vis.toronto.edu>

Sender: news@tcom.stc.co.uk (System Administration)

Reply-To: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)

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Lines: 10

Xref: ns-mx rec.travel:21262 misc.misc:7184 news.misc:4105 alt.alien.visitors:4591 soc.college.gradinfo:1478


In article <92Feb20.111306est.8702@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> eyal@vis.toronto.edu writes:

>********** APARTMENT FOR SUMMER SUBLET **********


What's this doing in "alt.alien.visitors" ? Perhaps you want to give the aliens

a little summer vacation from what is probably a very Spartan system of

underground tunnels ?


Sorry. Couldn't resist.


Pat

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cumesb!anselmo

From: anselmo@cumesb (Andrew P. Anselmo)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Yet another test; please ignore

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.193939.28061@ctr.columbia.edu>

Date: 21 Feb 92 19:39:39 GMT

References: <9202211920.AA28111@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose)

Organization: Columbia University Department of Mechanical Engineering

Lines: 10



This is a test of the emergency broadcast system.

In the event of an emergency...

This is only a test.


-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Andrew Anselmo / Department of Mechanical Engineering / Columbia University   

   236A SW Mudd Building 212-854-2965 / anselmo@cumesb.mech.columbia.edu 

                    Independently Owned and Operated.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!sword.eng.hou.compaq.com!mccreary

From: mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>

Date: 21 Feb 92 19:16:32 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu>

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In article <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:

>In article <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:

>>I've always been impressed by ILM, but this tops it!  They have data from a 

>>probe that never existed! (there were only two Vikings). I've been thinking

>>about doing something like this for Venus.  If anyone has any information 

>>about programming codes, let me know.

>

>NASA's already done something like this for Venus.  Well, it wasn't

>interactive, but they've got a nice video clip of parts of Venus from the point

>of view of someone flying over the surface.  Sorry, I don't know how you would

>et a copy of it.


They've done quite a few.  I believe the original research into this     

technique was done at JPL.  I've seen _LA, the Movie_, _Mars, the Movie_

and _Europa, the Movie_.  (I think Europa, it was one of the Jovian 

moons.)  It's quite breath taking to watch.  Try contacting the public

affairs offices of NASA or JPL.  They may provide video tapes for educational

use.  You can get an amazing amount of material either free or real

cheap if you dig enough.




--

McCreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com     Computers are like Old Testament gods;

EMcCreary@uh.edu                      lots of rules and no mercy.

#include <stddisclaimer.h>                                  Joseph Campbell

                "Ooooohhhh we got movie sign!!" MST3K

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!roholdr

From: roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.194854.22858@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

Date: 21 Feb 92 19:48:54 GMT

References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca> <1992Feb21.014725.17430@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

Lines: 65


In <1992Feb21.014725.17430@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes:


>someone who should know better(?) writes:


[stuff deleted...]


>>But the equipment failed - just like the probe that located the Mars Face.


>I wasn't aware that the vikings failed.


He's sort of "got me" here...  I'd _heard_ that the Mars Face was located

by a probe that was sent to Mars by the United States to study the Martian

moons.  Unfortunately, I heard this over a local radio broadcast some time

ago and I haven't heard anything more since then.  Was the Mars Face first

located by the Viking Probes?  If not, why didn't we hear about all the 

Mars Face just after the Vikings landed???


>this same person went on to say 'and probably this one will fail too';

>isn't that jumping the gun a bit? I mean, wait for it to fail mysteriously,

>then start into the conspiracy theories.


I suppose if I had based my belief in the "conspiracy theory" solely on the

malfunctions of a couple of probes, I'd be guilty of "jumping the gun".

Luckily, there's evidence here on earth that a government conspiracy exists -

documents that are leaked occasionally, incidents similar to Hangar 19,

incidents similar to a recent encounter the Belgian Airforce allegedly had

with several UFOs (albeit reported on a television show that resembles the

National Enquirer), not to mention numerous individual "close encounters"

ordinary people have had over the last 40 years.  Granted, leaked documents

could all be forgeries, the discussions on Hangar 19 have largely consisted

of conjecture (since, if true, it's a military secret anyway), shows like

Hard Copy, A Current Affair could be misrepresenting the facts - misleading

people into thinking there is a conspiracy in order to develop stories to

"sell" to the public, and the individual "encounters" of ordinary people 

could all be explained away as weather baloons, hoaxes, optical illusions

and/or mistakes.  The Crop Circles could all be natural phenomenon.

 

And I could be Emperor of Rome.


My point is believers in "The Conspiracy Theory" are probably not arriving

at their conclusions in the half-cocked fashion that has been suggested by

some.  My own personal beliefs are derived from all of the above being a

little too coincidental for me to accept and an inherent distrust in govern-

ment.  At the very least suggesting a conspiracy theory isn't wrong.  The

suggestion that I should know better than to do this is the suggestion that

I put a blind trust in all of the alternative explainations being valid

without question.  But I do question...and will continue to question until

it is conclusively shown that all of the alternative explanations for these

phenomena are the causes of them.


Whatever my own view, everyone should be reluctant to dismiss the "Conspiracy

Theory".  If there is a conspiracy theory, isn't it in everyone's interest

to find out about it?  Do we want our governments to decieve us?  Do we want

our judgement so impeded by a lack of information - do we want to live in

a society where the government manipulates the opinons of its citizens through

providing government-selected information?  Isn't it important, with all this

at stake, that we consider "The Conspiracy Theory?"



 ---------------------------------------------------------------

|R. Ross Holder, Jr.             | Home Address:                |

|(roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca) | 410-424 River Avenue         |

|Department of Philosophy | Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada   |

|The University of Manitoba | R3L 0C6   PH#: (204) 478-1744|

 ---------------------------------------------------------------

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!convex!schumach

From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher)

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <schumach.698706566@convex.convex.com>

Date: 21 Feb 92 21:09:26 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu> <1992Feb21.174622.14330@infonode.ingr.com>

Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account)

Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA

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Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4457 alt.alien.visitors:4595 sci.skeptic:20905

Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com

X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer

              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and

              not necessarily those of CONVEX.


In <1992Feb21.174622.14330@infonode.ingr.com> jim@doink.b23b.ingr.com (James B. Reed) writes:

>Using logic on your statement (and assuming you statement is true), we must

>conclude that Isaac Newton was a campfire.  He believed in God, but he

>certainly was not a dolt who could not form logical explanations for the

>world around him.


Yes, Newton was a genius, but he was not infallible. Some of his

views were completely wrong (such as those that led him to write

tens of thousands of words on alchemy as a science), or even lunatic

(his deathbed statement that his proudest achievement was to die a

virgin).


So stop with these ridiculous appeals to authority, already.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!spdcc!rdonahue

From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com>

Date: 21 Feb 92 22:07:29 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com> <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

Organization: insert anything here

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jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>>jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

>>>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:


>>>> Not that surveying the older stars are any picnic either...


>>> I imagine that Lovelock would suggest looking for worlds whose

>>>atmosphere is in what should be chemical disequilibrium. Lots of O2,

>>>for example, suggests there must be something producing it continually.


>> Huh? Um... *how*?

>> We can't even detect them (extra-solar planets) as it is yet,

>>let alone differentiate between their atmospheric constituencies...


> What is Earth's radio noise output like these days? Assuming no

>attempt on our part to be noticed by hypothetical ETIs, would it be 

>obvious to the ETIs why the sun (or a close companion to it) appeared

>to be a major radio source?


UM --- that's one of the better suggestions.  You could get 

several things from this: the distance from the Earth to the Sun,

as well as the rotation and revolution periods of the Earth as well...

I don't know how many Janskys the Earth puts out, offhand.


The big problem here is of course where to look...  Even FM

is a pretty large bandwidth to sample, and there isn't and logical reason

for ETs to start looking there (that I know of).  


Bob

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante

From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.214636.29538@rosevax.rosemount.com>

Date: 21 Feb 92 21:46:36 GMT

References: <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>

Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator)

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Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius


fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Frank T Lofaro) writes:

: From alt.paranormal (USENET): 20-Feb-92 Re: Dreamland Gerry

: Roston@cs.cmu.edu (919)

: >Jon

: >If I were to say that people with acne were actuallt Martians in

: >disguise, would you say:

: >a) He's full of shit.

: >b) I can not form an opinion, but the burden of proof is on him.

: >

: >Although what you said about skepticism being a two edged sword is

: >correct, there are certain ideas that can be quickly flushed without

: >resorting to experimentation, etc.

: >

: >Like pyschotics being ingabited by demon.

: >

: >Or people with acne being Martians.

: That is a somewhat hollow argument. You are comparing the statement

: being tested to something that is obviously ridiculous and then using

: that as the basis for attacking the original statement. While it would

: be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by

: demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many

: of them are.


It is _your_ opinion that martians are more ridiculous that demons.

At least Mars is a real place that has been observed and visited.

Although current evidence doesn't give any indication of life on Mars

(and I don't want to hear about stupid faces and pyramids) the

existence of life on a terrestrial planet has precedent.  Hell, or

wherever demons come from, hasn't been observed or visited.  In my

opinion it is much more likely that somebody is a Martian than sombody

is possessed by demons.


There is as much evidence to support the _claim_ that I am a Martian as

there is that I am possessed by demons.  NONE!


There _is_ evidence that schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders

are organically caused.  Why invent demons?


-- 

Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  The land of the rising

Rosemount Inc.                                |SONY!!

                                              |

grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!gibdo!tvp

From: tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Crop Circles

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.234717.5094@gibdo.engr.washington.edu>

Date: 22 Feb 92 00:05:33 GMT

References: <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> <1992Feb17.111438.21406@gibdo.engr.washington.edu> <1992Feb21.125941.23172@rhrk.uni-kl.de>

Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System)

Organization: clearer than blir

Lines: 43


In article <1992Feb21.125941.23172@rhrk.uni-kl.de> kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes:

>In article <1992Feb17.111438.21406@gibdo.engr.washington.edu>, tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu writes:

>

>>The man, staring at shapes he *believed* to be made by intelligent

>>beings,

>You want to say there is any serious doubt of that?

>

>>searched so hard for meaning that he found it in the form of

>>five as yet undiscovered theorems. [..] No, after showing that 

>>the theorems are probably new, we would

>>need evidence that the very layout of the crop circles was *designed*

>>to lead to the discovery of these theorems and again determine if this

>>seems reasonable.

>

>As you can find Elk's Theory by looking at an image of a

>brontosaurus, you can find geometric relations by looking at

>an image of geometric figures.  But I don't assume that anyone

>would draw a brontosaurus with the intention of making somebody

>else find this "new theory".


I think the most definitive statement of what I was trying to say is:

To be rigorous, I would like the discoverer of the theorems describe a

general method of decoding crop circles which anyone could apply to

future formations. If it were then possible for observers to

independently arrive at identical new theorems based on a given

formation, this would be strong evidence that the crop circles had

been intelligently designed and represented a symbolic language of

sorts. Especially if the formation were found to contain "instructions"

that led the observer to the theorem.


If he claims there really was no formal method of decoding, I would

say the question is up in the air because of the *possibility* that

concentration on the geometric shapes had led to a Eureka discovery of

new theorems. Without any further evidence to guide us, each

individual must decide for him/herself which explanation seems more

reasonable: Eureka discovery or intelligent formations. I think either

is possible, the latter certainly more exciting, but which is

reasonable without any other evidence? Whichever a given person

chooses, he/she should not be derided for his/her choice. And until

the matter is settled the phenomenon should continue to be studied,

as it is of interest to many people.


-- Tad Perry

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner

From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com>

Date: 21 Feb 92 16:52:56 GMT

Distribution: na

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Lines: 288



>In article <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...

>>In article <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>>In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...

>>>>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>>>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...


>>>Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.

>> 

>>Curiously, when many people _say_ UFO, they mean _alien spacecraft_.

>>So what they are talking about is not an unknown deserving of study,

>>but those darn aliens. 


>Ah, but who cares?  If you read my previous posts, you won't find _me_

>attributing UFO's to "alien spacecraft".  I've been arguing about the

>phenomenon.  Once again, someone else (you, this time) is forcing the

>"alien" issue.


>Why?


I'm not forcing this or any other issue. This -->is<-- alt.alien.visitors,

and if you have followed the other threads, you will know about the planet

ummo, the greys, several conspiracies, etc...  And they do belong here.

How is it that you can act as they are not part of the phenomena? Any

study which ignores part of the data cannot be considered unbiased.


>>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth

>>>>>about this phenomenon need apply.

>> 

>>Need there be a single TRVTH? Or even just one phenomenon? I thought

>>we were dealing with an unknown? Hopefully I have guessed correctly

>>who originally said this.


>Absolutely.  Show me where I have insisted that there is _one_ truth to

>be found here.


I see above  ">>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth".

And I checked, these were your words. Are you saying the "the truth"

is non-singular? 


>>>My statement about "truth" stands.


>> 

>>I tend to think that there is no truth, just different points of

>>view. 


>No offense, but doesn't this statement strike you as rather "unscientific"?


Scientific investigation is good for exploring objective reality. But

"truth" is not an objective reality. I would say that any study

go find some objective "truth" would absolutely not be a scientific

investigation. 


>>>>

>>>>Simple question:  You want repeatability.  Show me how you can, in a 

>>>laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in

>>>a nuclear fission reaction.  Show me a real, honest to goodness

>>>black hole.

>> 

>>This seems to be a straw-man argument. The truth or falsity of the

>>above has no bearing upon the value of studying the "UFO phenomenon".

>>Nevertheless, fission, while not predictable, is quite repeatable,

>>and the rate can be measured. Now if only UFO observations were as

>>repeatable, this thread would never have existed. And there is

>>a pretty good theoretical basis behind black holes. What theory

>>perdicts UFO`s? 


>>What theory predicts that atom 1E37 will divide?  Look, the point I'm

>>trying to make is that we keep hearing that the UFO phenomenon is not

>>repeatable in a laboratory.  Of course it isn't.  But neither are other

>>things which we _accept_ in science as valid.  I have yet to see the

>>difference.


>Most importantly, much of science does NOT begin in the laboratory in

>a repeatable setting.  It begins with _something_ that raises questions.


>If that "something" has raised a question, then the next step is to

>decide whether we can _try_ to answer it.  That is where the current

>state of the study of the UFO phenomenon rests.  It has never gone

>beyond this.


>For one to cry that there is no "repeatable" evidence of the phenomenon

>is to deny the birth of other scientific advances.  Many of those did

>not start in a laboratory.  They started with _observation_, something

>that should be a holy word to science.


The key here is that repeatable phenomena _can_ be investigated. If

we had only reports of uranium atome splitting, and from at best

questionable sources, would we be talking about fission today?


>Fission, as a phenomenon, is deliberately repeatable.  I agree.


>However, there was a time when it was _not_.  It was only a "theory".


As I recall, atoms at the time were considered unsplitable. Theory

denied that atome could split. Only after it was undisputably

observed was the phenomenon given proper study, and the nuclear

sciences were born.


>How did we achieve repeatability?  By studying the processes that we

>thought should lead to it.  Call it a bit of forensic science if you

>will.  In any case, we _believed_ (for the most part) that we should

>be able to actually split something we could not see and still haven't.


Did we achieve repeatability? Is this not intrinsic to either

the phenomenon or to our methods of observation?


>At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth, I'll go one step further and

>say that fission is NOT repeatable and NOT predictable for any particular

>single atom.  There is a probability that atom #1E37 _may_ divide.


This is solidly accepted as scientific fact. But still the rate of

decay can easily be measured, and hence we have half-lives. What is

the half-life of a phenomenon? Or a UFO? And how would you measure

this? 


>>>

>>>In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.

>

  

>>No argument, but where do we go from here? This alone is not

>>sufficient.


>You and I agree on this.  The answer seems obvious to me.  You don't

>argue that the _phenomenon_ is real (as I stated above).  So, if this

>"alone is not sufficient", we do what science dictates that we do.


I guess that I was unclear. I agree that the phenomena exists.

That was what was meant by "No argument."


>We study it further.


It does not neccesarily follow that the existance of a phenomena

makes it worthwhile to study. It may or may not be. But there are

an infinite number of things to study (OK, a very large number),

and neither you nor I nor anyone has time or resources to study

them all. So we go with out strengths.


>> 

>>>Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists.  Evidence for a particular "UFO"

>>>(whatever that may be) does not.

>> 

>>A flying saucer might be studied. How does one study a phenomenon?


>Ask a psychologist.


Then who are we discussion UFO's as a subject for scientific

investigation?


>> 

>>>Now, let me rephrase the above....

>>>

>>>"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists.  Evidence that

>>>atom #1E37 is going to split does not.

>>>

>>>Do you see my point?

>> 

>>I see your point. But things with boring repeatability have never

>>been that difficult to study.


>I would venture to say that the reporting of UFO sightings occurs quite

>often worldwide.  Can we demand that a UFO appear?  No.  Therefore, it is

>not repeatable on demand.  So what?  That doesn't change the fact that

>thousands of reports occur annually.


So what? Let's not confuse "repeatable on demand" with completely

random in place and time. If only the place were repeatable, then

one might set up some sort of automated equipment to look for

EM bursts, changes in the magnetic field, etc...  But it is difficult

to monitor the entire world at all times.


>>>

>>>Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).

>>>It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters.  If you're

>>>in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.

>> 

>>I think that the requirements to eat and pay the rent might

>>just possibly make it into the objective category. Unless you

>>make a living doing something else, and study the phenomenon on

>>your own.


>No.  That makes it especially subjective.


I would say that requirements for food, shelter, and clothing are

objective. To each their own I guess.


>>>Such as?  You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of

>>>the UFO phenomenon.  That is blatantly false.  Would you care to provide

>>>evidence of this?

>> 

>>It is not possible to _prove_ that a thing does not exist.

>>Rather, the problem here is defining just what the phenomenon

>>is. Right now all we have is the 'phenomenon' label, and claims

>>of alien spacecraft. Would you care to try to get funding

>>based upon this?


>I'm not asking for that.  I simply meant that if you _are_ implying that

>those who _do_ seriously study the subject (few as they may be) are not

>doing so in a scientific manner, then you evidently have evidence of some

>sort to lead you to make such an assertion.


Did I say that ">those who _do_ seriously study the subject" do so

unscientifically? I don't see it in rereading. And therefore I do

not seem to have made any assertions. You, above, do say that

there is valid scientific investigation going on. Would you be so

kind as to elucidate?


>As for defining the phenomenon...well...I don't see that as a problem.


Once again, we have a label : UFO. This is just a bit short of

defining the phenomenon for my taste. Would you care to spell out

what you mean by the "phenomenon" for me? 


>The phenomenon _is_.  If one weighs most if not all of the anecdotal and

>physical trace evidence, it's clear that there is no single _cause_ of

>the phenomenon.  In fact, the phenomenon may be divided into categories.


>And yes, I _did_ say "physical trace evidence".


>I'll be happy to explain if you wish, but let's assume that I'm right.


>What's the difference between this "trace" evidence and say, trace evidence

>that the element Lead was once unstable?  We can't repeat that can we?


I still do not think that atomic decay is a proper parallel to the

UFO phenomenon.


>>>

>>>The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time.  Unfortunately,

>>>it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because

>>>of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject.  What I

>>>find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the

>>>_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current

>>>SETI research.  That is absurd.

>> 

>>While I think the chances of SETI working are so slim as to

>>make it a wasted effort, how does one compare SETI to a conspiricy

>>theory, and find an absurdity. 


>"Conspiracy"?  What are you talking about?  Did I miss something?


Keep reading alt.aliens.visitors, if you have not seem any conspiracy

theories, you will. Many posts are cross-posted to alt.conspiracy.


>>Also you claim we have a UFO

>>'phenomenon', not alien intelligence, how do you reconcile that

>>with the clear implication that UFO are extraterrestial

>>intelligences above?


>No, no, NO!  I am not equating the two.  I'm pointing out that "science"

>is perfectly happy to look for something it has 0 evidence for (unless you


But they are lookin for something they can detect using well known

tools and techniques. And in places where they might expect to find

life. 


>consider the fact that _we_ exist the evidence).  Yet, when we have

>thousands of people worldwide making extraordinary claims, many with

>physical traces, instrumental observations, etc., we laugh it off as

>nothing.


I'll admit, after much study, I still do not know what to make of the

phenomenon. But cleary there is much fraud and fakery. And many of

the observations are natural phenomenon under unusual circumstances.

And many extrordinary claims are made. Why does the onus of proof

rest upon the scientific community?


>>>>Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)

>> 

>>Rich

>> 

>>payner@netcom.com Sig is at the cleaners.

>

>Regards, 

>Jim Graham 

>

>        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

>                          Neither do they speak for me.

> ______________________________________________________________________

>| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

>|           dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu                        |

>| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |

>|            (812) 334-0418, 24hrs.                                    |

>|______________________________________________________________________|


Rich again


payner@netcom.com

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-col!col!lpj

From: lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off

Message-ID: <73230001@col.hp.com>

Date: 20 Feb 92 19:44:28 GMT

References: <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

Lines: 7


> why would the American government spend

>- waste the people's money studying a rock? 


Hadn't you noticed? The American government is in the business

of spending and wasting people's money. That's what it does.


-LJ (feeling cynical today)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham

From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <1992Feb22.022929.29031@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Date: 22 Feb 92 02:18:45 GMT

References: <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com>

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In article <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...

>>In article <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...

>>>In article <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>>>In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...

>>>>>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>>>>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...

>>>>Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.

>>> 

>>>Curiously, when many people _say_ UFO, they mean _alien spacecraft_.

>>>So what they are talking about is not an unknown deserving of study,

>>>but those darn aliens. 

>>Ah, but who cares?  If you read my previous posts, you won't find _me_

>>attributing UFO's to "alien spacecraft".  I've been arguing about the

>>phenomenon.  Once again, someone else (you, this time) is forcing the

>>"alien" issue.

>>Why?

>I'm not forcing this or any other issue. This -->is<-- alt.alien.visitors,

>and if you have followed the other threads, you will know about the planet

>ummo, the greys, several conspiracies, etc...  And they do belong here.

>How is it that you can act as they are not part of the phenomena? Any

>study which ignores part of the data cannot be considered unbiased.


First, I realize this is alt.alien.visitors.  However, the original thread

started with someone (Don Allen I think) posting some statistics concerning

the percentage of astronomers that thought the UFO phenomenon should 

receive further scientific study.  There was _no_, 0, nadda mention of

"aliens" in that post.


The fact that Don posted here may _imply_ that aliens should be attributed,

but the content of the post shows otherwise.


Granted, maybe we should take this to sci.skeptic, and if you desire this,

I'll start adding it to the newsgroups: line, but I suspect that if we

do, those folks will tell us that it belongs in alt.alien.visitors, since

the armchair skeptic is the one that _usually_ makes the attribution when

the debate becomes difficult for them to handle.


>>>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth

>>>>>>about this phenomenon need apply.

>>> 

>>>Need there be a single TRVTH? Or even just one phenomenon? I thought

>>>we were dealing with an unknown? Hopefully I have guessed correctly

>>>who originally said this.

>>Absolutely.  Show me where I have insisted that there is _one_ truth to

>>be found here.

>I see above  ">>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth".

>And I checked, these were your words. Are you saying the "the truth"

>is non-singular? 


No, _you_ implied this.


>>>>My statement about "truth" stands.

>>> 

>>>I tend to think that there is no truth, just different points of

>>>view. 

>>No offense, but doesn't this statement strike you as rather "unscientific"?

>Scientific investigation is good for exploring objective reality. But

>"truth" is not an objective reality. I would say that any study

>go find some objective "truth" would absolutely not be a scientific

>investigation. 


Ok.  You have your own definition of "truth".  That's fine, as long as we

both know this.


My definition of "truth" is a simple one.  A "fact" is a "truth".  Something

that is a part of objective reality is a "truth".  


Let's stop playing with words and address the issue, ok?


>>>>>

>>>>>Simple question:  You want repeatability.  Show me how you can, in a 

>>>>laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in

>>>>a nuclear fission reaction.  Show me a real, honest to goodness

>>>>black hole.

>>> 

>>>This seems to be a straw-man argument. The truth or falsity of the

>>>above has no bearing upon the value of studying the "UFO phenomenon".

>>>Nevertheless, fission, while not predictable, is quite repeatable,

>>>and the rate can be measured. Now if only UFO observations were as

>>>repeatable, this thread would never have existed. And there is

>>>a pretty good theoretical basis behind black holes. What theory

>>>perdicts UFO`s? 

>>>What theory predicts that atom 1E37 will divide?  Look, the point I'm

>>>trying to make is that we keep hearing that the UFO phenomenon is not

>>>repeatable in a laboratory.  Of course it isn't.  But neither are other

>>>things which we _accept_ in science as valid.  I have yet to see the

>>>difference.

>>Most importantly, much of science does NOT begin in the laboratory in

>>a repeatable setting.  It begins with _something_ that raises questions.

>>If that "something" has raised a question, then the next step is to

>>decide whether we can _try_ to answer it.  That is where the current

>>state of the study of the UFO phenomenon rests.  It has never gone

>>beyond this.

>>For one to cry that there is no "repeatable" evidence of the phenomenon

>>is to deny the birth of other scientific advances.  Many of those did

>>not start in a laboratory.  They started with _observation_, something

>>that should be a holy word to science.

>The key here is that repeatable phenomena _can_ be investigated. If

>we had only reports of uranium atome splitting, and from at best

>questionable sources, would we be talking about fission today?


And are all (in fact most) _sources_ of sighting reports "questionable"?


What are you implying?


>>Fission, as a phenomenon, is deliberately repeatable.  I agree.

>>However, there was a time when it was _not_.  It was only a "theory".

>As I recall, atoms at the time were considered unsplitable. Theory

>denied that atome could split. Only after it was undisputably

>observed was the phenomenon given proper study, and the nuclear

>sciences were born.


Again, I think we need to agree on a definition of "undisputably

observed".  You seem to keep avoiding my insistance that I have been

talking about the ufo _phenomenon_.  Not a singular report of a strange

object seen in the sky by Bayou Bill.


I think UFO's have been "undisputably observed".  If not, tell me why

you disagree and what would change your mind.  Remember that I am

referring to what I consider the undeniable existance of the _phenomenon_,

NOT a particular object.


>>How did we achieve repeatability?  By studying the processes that we

>>thought should lead to it.  Call it a bit of forensic science if you

>>will.  In any case, we _believed_ (for the most part) that we should

>>be able to actually split something we could not see and still haven't.

>Did we achieve repeatability? Is this not intrinsic to either

>the phenomenon or to our methods of observation?


Yes.  At the macro level, that is true.


Suppose you really wanted to study the ufo phenomenon.  How would _you_

propose achieving repeatability of a phenomenon that exists but is

"transient" in nature?


>>At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth, I'll go one step further and

>>say that fission is NOT repeatable and NOT predictable for any particular

>>single atom.  There is a probability that atom #1E37 _may_ divide.

>This is solidly accepted as scientific fact. But still the rate of

>decay can easily be measured, and hence we have half-lives. What is

>the half-life of a phenomenon? Or a UFO? And how would you measure

>this? 


Does it matter?  What is the "half-life" of the violent crime phenomenon?


What is the "half-life" of the ball-lightning phenomenon?


What is the "half-life" of the earthquake "phenomenon"?


How would you measure these?


The point I'm making is that not all "phenomena" are predictable,

reproducible on demand, and directly measurable.  Some of these are

readily accepted by science as valid, even though science can't 

really practice what it preaches when faced with them.


>>>>

>>>>In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.

>>

>  

>>>No argument, but where do we go from here? This alone is not

>>>sufficient.

>>You and I agree on this.  The answer seems obvious to me.  You don't

>>argue that the _phenomenon_ is real (as I stated above).  So, if this

>>"alone is not sufficient", we do what science dictates that we do.

>I guess that I was unclear. I agree that the phenomena exists.

>That was what was meant by "No argument."

>>We study it further.

>It does not neccesarily follow that the existance of a phenomena

>makes it worthwhile to study. It may or may not be. But there are

>an infinite number of things to study (OK, a very large number),

>and neither you nor I nor anyone has time or resources to study

>them all. So we go with out strengths.


I agree.  So, if one chooses to "study" the phenomenon _scientifically_,

why the stigma on those who actually attempt this?


Who decides what is "worthy"?  The government?  You?  Me?  The rest of

"science"?


If we are asking for money to study, then it makes sense that the

moneygiver makes the decision (either directly or indirectly).


But that says absolutely nothing about how "worthy" something is of

scientific study.  It is, in a sense, a straw man.


If we are arguing the merits of studying one phenomenon over another,

based on available funding, then we are discussing...well...the topic

of funding.


However, that was not and is not why this thread on astronomers and 

ufos began. 


>>> 

>>>>Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists.  Evidence for a particular "UFO"

>>>>(whatever that may be) does not.

>>> 

>>>A flying saucer might be studied. How does one study a phenomenon?

>>Ask a psychologist.

>Then who are we discussion UFO's as a subject for scientific

>investigation?


Can you ask this again?  I don't understand the above (it's garbled).


Sorry.


>>> 

>>>>Now, let me rephrase the above....

>>>>

>>>>"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists.  Evidence that

>>>>atom #1E37 is going to split does not.

>>>>

>>>>Do you see my point?

>>> 

>>>I see your point. But things with boring repeatability have never

>>>been that difficult to study.

>>I would venture to say that the reporting of UFO sightings occurs quite

>>often worldwide.  Can we demand that a UFO appear?  No.  Therefore, it is

>>not repeatable on demand.  So what?  That doesn't change the fact that

>>thousands of reports occur annually.

>So what? Let's not confuse "repeatable on demand" with completely

>random in place and time. If only the place were repeatable, then

>one might set up some sort of automated equipment to look for

>EM bursts, changes in the magnetic field, etc...  But it is difficult

>to monitor the entire world at all times.


Well, we do that with meteorologically satellites all the time :-).

We do it with geological instruments all the time.


In certain "flaps" of sightings, it is done.  But, it is _still_ not

seriously considered or studied by mainstream science.  


The opportunity has shown itself numerous times, but...no bites.


And, when someone within the Ufology community (and I refer to the

serious investigators, not the channeling space brother folks),

that too is conveniently ignored because armchair sceptics have already

made up their minds.


There is a wealth of data gathered via investigation by serious

investigators, that is just _waiting_ to be chewed upon (and perhaps

spit out) by mainstream science, but it doesn't even bite.


>>>>

>>>>Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).

>>>>It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters.  If you're

>>>>in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.

>>> 

>>>I think that the requirements to eat and pay the rent might

>>>just possibly make it into the objective category. Unless you

>>>make a living doing something else, and study the phenomenon on

>>>your own.

>>No.  That makes it especially subjective.

>I would say that requirements for food, shelter, and clothing are

>objective. To each their own I guess.


In a collective sense, I could stretch the word "objective" to make it

fit.


In any case, these are givens.  The "worthiness" of getting answers to

unanswered questions is still purely subjective.


>>>>Such as?  You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of

>>>>the UFO phenomenon.  That is blatantly false.  Would you care to provide

>>>>evidence of this?

>>> 

>>>It is not possible to _prove_ that a thing does not exist.

>>>Rather, the problem here is defining just what the phenomenon

>>>is. Right now all we have is the 'phenomenon' label, and claims

>>>of alien spacecraft. Would you care to try to get funding

>>>based upon this?

>>I'm not asking for that.  I simply meant that if you _are_ implying that

>>those who _do_ seriously study the subject (few as they may be) are not

>>doing so in a scientific manner, then you evidently have evidence of some

>>sort to lead you to make such an assertion.

>Did I say that ">those who _do_ seriously study the subject" do so

>unscientifically? I don't see it in rereading. And therefore I do

>not seem to have made any assertions. You, above, do say that

>there is valid scientific investigation going on. Would you be so

>kind as to elucidate?


Hmmm.  I should point out that _you_ used the word "valid" above.  


The most obvious investigation that comes to mind is that of

Trans en Province.  That was an actual _trace_ case.  Sorry, but there

were not pieces of unidentified craft.  There _was_ true scientific

analysis of soil and botanic traces, but three different laboratories.


If you really want the poop, I'll get the references next week since

they're at work.


In a nutshell, an unusual object was observed to have hit or skimmed

the ground, only to take off again shortly after.


The traces left were unexplainable characteristic changes to the soil

in the immediate vicinity of the object, and unusual changes to surrounding

plantlife.


Soil samples were submitted to 3 (if I recall) laboratories, went through

various tests, and all three reports were in agreement.


>>As for defining the phenomenon...well...I don't see that as a problem.

>Once again, we have a label : UFO. This is just a bit short of

>defining the phenomenon for my taste. Would you care to spell out

>what you mean by the "phenomenon" for me? 


Apparently we both misunderstand each other.


When talking about the UFO phenomenon, I see two distinct categories

ripe for study.


a.) A particular sighting, case, whatever you wish to consider.  This

    is the most difficult (IMO) to study, since it is by definition

    a transient phenomenon.


b.) The phenomenon.  Even this may be subdivided into categories, such

    as the abduction phenomenon, which is slowly but surely beginning 

    to be studied by real scientists and some respected scientists in the

    field of psychology.


    In any case, when I refer to the study of the _phenomenon_, I am

    referring to the fact that _something_ is going on.  It simply

    hasn't been explained.


>>The phenomenon _is_.  If one weighs most if not all of the anecdotal and

>>physical trace evidence, it's clear that there is no single _cause_ of

>>the phenomenon.  In fact, the phenomenon may be divided into categories.

>>And yes, I _did_ say "physical trace evidence".

>>I'll be happy to explain if you wish, but let's assume that I'm right.

>>What's the difference between this "trace" evidence and say, trace evidence

>>that the element Lead was once unstable?  We can't repeat that can we?

>I still do not think that atomic decay is a proper parallel to the

>UFO phenomenon.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.


While atomic decay is repeatable and predictable on the macro scale,

you cannot make a particular atom split.


The UFO phenomenon exists.  It is not repeatable _on demand_.  It is

repeatable in the sense that it continues.  It is not predictable

on a macro scale, but is somewhat predictable on the "regional" scale

(ie flaps usually occur over an extended period in a particular area).


>>>>

>>>>The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time.  Unfortunately,

>>>>it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because

>>>>of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject.  What I

>>>>find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the

>>>>_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current

>>>>SETI research.  That is absurd.

>>> 

>>>While I think the chances of SETI working are so slim as to

>>>make it a wasted effort, how does one compare SETI to a conspiricy

>>>theory, and find an absurdity. 

>>"Conspiracy"?  What are you talking about?  Did I miss something?

>Keep reading alt.aliens.visitors, if you have not seem any conspiracy

>theories, you will. Many posts are cross-posted to alt.conspiracy.


But that's my point.  What does any conspiracies have to do with this

discussion?  I haven't implied any, have I?


>>>Also you claim we have a UFO

>>>'phenomenon', not alien intelligence, how do you reconcile that

>>>with the clear implication that UFO are extraterrestial

>>>intelligences above?

>>No, no, NO!  I am not equating the two.  I'm pointing out that "science"

>>is perfectly happy to look for something it has 0 evidence for (unless you

>But they are lookin for something they can detect using well known

>tools and techniques. And in places where they might expect to find

>life.


You mean like eyes to look at instruments?  Minds to form hypothesis?


The truth is, in SETI, they really don't _know_ what to look for.  They

_assume_ that communication is most likely to occur at certain "magic"

frequencies.


They are looking for something they can detect, as you said.  But

_why_ are they looking _where_ they're looking?


Look, it is very common for people to attribute UFO's to ETI.


There really is no evidence to support that assumption.


However, don't you find it ironic that we would be spending millions

looking for something light years away that we have yet to sense,

let alone have any evidence for, and yet, right here at home we have

thousands of reports of unidentified objects annually, which most

people naturally (but perhaps mistakenly) attribute to little green

men, and yet, we don't pay attention?


We search for ETI elsewhere with little probability of success, yet

ignore the possibility of better success right here at home.


>>consider the fact that _we_ exist the evidence).  Yet, when we have

>>thousands of people worldwide making extraordinary claims, many with

>>physical traces, instrumental observations, etc., we laugh it off as

>>nothing.

>I'll admit, after much study, I still do not know what to make of the

>phenomenon. But cleary there is much fraud and fakery. And many of

>the observations are natural phenomenon under unusual circumstances.

>And many extrordinary claims are made. Why does the onus of proof

>rest upon the scientific community?


Who said it does?  Not me.  I didn't mean to imply that.  All I will

assert is that the onus of further serious study rests with those 

most qualified to do so.  That is known as responsibility.


If proof comes from that, fine.


That is why I made an earlier remark about forensic science.  It _is_

a science, you know.  It's sole purpose is to _study_ any available

evidence (usually in the form of traces), and come to some sort of

conclusion.


But, if that was never done, a criminal case would have a difficult

time proceeding.


In like manner, true, serious investigation into the ufo phenomenon is

a precursor to doing any real "science" (IMO).  That isn't happening

in mainstream science except perhaps in the field of psychology.


>Rich again

>payner@netcom.com


Jim Graham - ditto 


        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

                          Neither do they speak for me.

 ______________________________________________________________________

| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

|           dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu                        |

| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |

|            (812) 334-0418, 24hrs.                                    |

|______________________________________________________________________|

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289

From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb22.032322.21884@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Date: 22 Feb 92 03:23:22 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>

Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Lines: 31

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4602 sci.space:26907 sci.skeptic:20910 alt.paranormal:4460


mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) writes:


[stuff on movies of flight over planetary surfaces deleted]


>>NASA's already done something like this for Venus.  Well, it wasn't

>>interactive, but they've got a nice video clip of parts of Venus from the point

>>of view of someone flying over the surface.  Sorry, I don't know how you would

>>et a copy of it.


>They've done quite a few.  I believe the original research into this     

>technique was done at JPL.  I've seen _LA, the Movie_, _Mars, the Movie_

>and _Europa, the Movie_.  (I think Europa, it was one of the Jovian 

>moons.)  It's quite breath taking to watch.  Try contacting the public

>affairs offices of NASA or JPL.  They may provide video tapes for educational

>use.  You can get an amazing amount of material either free or real

>cheap if you dig enough.


Yes, I mentioned this in a follow up post.  As I recall, it was not Europa,

but Miranda, a moon of Uranus.  Europa is one of the smoothest bodies is the

solar system, and, as such, doesn't make for very interesting terrain.


I also invited people to mail me if they want the adress to write to for NASA

videos.  I don't have the adress here, but I will have it tomorrow, and will

mail all those who ask for it then.


Josh Hopkins

>-

>McCreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com     Computers are like Old Testament gods;

>EMcCreary@uh.edu                      lots of rules and no mercy.

>#include <stddisclaimer.h>                                  Joseph Campbell

>                "Ooooohhhh we got movie sign!!" MST3K

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!utzoo!censor!comspec!becker!bdb

From: bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.brother-jed,alt.desert-shield.erotica,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.fishing,alt.tasteless,alt.true.crime

Subject: boom

Message-ID: <137762@becker.UUCP>

Date: 21 Feb 92 18:06:20 GMT

Organization: G. T. S., Toronto, Ontario

Lines: 33

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4603 alt.brother-jed:945 alt.exploding.kibo:80 alt.fishing:3725 alt.tasteless:7855



        DEAD HUNTERS GIVEN FINAL SHOTGUN BLAST

                   Associated Press



         DES MOINES, Iowa - The way Jay  Knudsen

      sees  it,  the ashes of dead hunters don't

      belong in urns  on  the  mantle.  So,  for

      about  the cost of a funeral and sometimes

      a lot less, he will take the ashes to  the

      sportsman's   favourite   marsh   or  bear

      country and blast them to smithereens.


         "We  can't  get  you  to  heaven,"   he

      advertises, "but we promise to land you in

      the happy hunting ground."


         A landscaper by trade, Mr. Knudsen  has

      an off-season service for the survivors of

      dedicated hunters.  He  loads  ashes  into

      shotgun  shells,  performs whatever ritual

      the family wishes and then blasts away.


         "This is not a morbid thing,  to  shoot

      ol' Joe down the barrel of a shotgun in an

      area he loved to hunt," Mr. Knudsen said.



-- 

  ,u, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ontario

a /i/ Internet: bdb@becker.gts.org, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu

 `\o\-e UUCP: ...!lsuc!becker!bdb

 _< /_ "Ceci n'est pas un \"" - Rene "Day" Taxi # 12 & 35

Path: ns-mx!uunet!verifone.com!ed_l1

From: ed_l1@verifone.com

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.120122.3747@verifone.com>

Date: 21 Feb 92 22:01:21 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com>

Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI

Lines: 28

Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20912 sci.space:26910 alt.paranormal:4461 alt.alien.visitors:4604


In article <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com>, sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

> In article <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

>> And, of course, anyone dismissing Mr. Peck's work and/or his

>>credibility must also put forth a compelling argument to substantiate their

>>dismissal, otherwise their opinion carries no weight whatsoever.

>>

> Sorry, that's backwards. Anyone ACCEPTING Peck's conclusion must put forth

> a compelling reason why the "devil possession" hypothesis is correct,

> and modern science is wrong.

>  

> The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on whoever makes extraordinary claims.


Oh?  Like your claim that he is wrong without any evidence to support

that contention?  That's pretty extraordinary.


Hmmm.  Sounds like personal opinion to me; carries only as much weight

as anyone else's personal opinion.


> -- 

>   

>         Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

>   

>  Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


Not suprising....


However, a _real_ skeptic would withhold opinion without adequate evidence.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: California CE-3's

Message-ID: <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 21 Feb 92 03:48:01 GMT

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 22


Yesterday I saw an ABC news report on an anonymous family in California who

claim that they're visited by aliens every night.  The aliens probe them

with beams of light, sometimes right through the ceiling of the house while

the family is awake.  They made drawings of the ships and they look fairly

complex, with rows of lights or jets on the bottom.  They also have

videotape of them, but the videotape just shows large, pale circular

lights.  As a telescope owner, I'm nearly certain it's way out of focus

(like part of the Scranton tape was) and possibly insufficiently bright as

well -- would someone please buy these guys a low-light camera and show

them how to use it?  Or a floodlight?  (The report even mentioned that

people claim the tape is a camera effect, though they didn't offer any

explanation of what lights were responsible for it.)  On the other hand,

the lights move independently of each other and change brightness.


The local news anchor mentioned the obvious question:  Why didn't the news

crew stick around until nighttime?


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy

From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Where are th AZ/NM references?

Message-ID: <1992Feb21.182332.27345@anasaz>

Date: 21 Feb 92 18:23:32 GMT

References: <1992Feb20.230458.15326@tellab5.tellabs.com>

Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az

Lines: 17


In article <1992Feb20.230458.15326@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@sunGb.tellabs.com (jcj) writes:

->

->Awhile ago, somebody made a series of claims re: Apache attack 'copters,

->roadblocks, etc. involved in a "CEIII"-like series of events in Arizona or

->New Mexico.  He said he'd post specific references to local newspaper 

->articles allegedly written about this.  Were they posted and I missed

->them?  Thanks.

->-- 

I'm the one who challenged this claim and to whom he promised to respond.

He has not.  Since I live in Arizona, read the "local" newspapers he refered

to and, despite my interest in UFOs, never noticed any such story, I doubt

he will.

-

-- 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

     Bill Moore     billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu    (602) 395-1732

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Path: ns-mx!uunet!hoptoad!chroma

From: chroma@hoptoad.uucp (Steve Kudlak)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?

Message-ID: <26506@hoptoad.uucp>

Date: 22 Feb 92 13:43:18 GMT

References: <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <jms.07dr@vanth.UUCP>

Reply-To: chroma@toad.com

Organization: Mountain View Labs Genetic Engineering

Lines: 91


In article <jms.07dr@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:

>In article <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) writes:

>>Asteroids can be fatal to radio careers to. It seems that former

>>science advisor to radio talk show host Chuck Harder, Richard

>>Hoagland, embarrassed Harder on the air, thereby severing his

>>weekly spot on Harders show. Harder had been speaking publicly on

>>his program about an alleged asteroid that had been, according to

>>what appeared to be a New York Times story from 1977 speeding its way to

>>Earth, making what the story claimed were course changes. The Times article

>>duly quoted purported scientists, and sounded very legit; it turned out that

>>when the New York Times Index was checked, along with microfiche copies from

>>that date and several days after, no such article could be found. It was

>>someone's very real looking fabrication.

>

>It wasn't an intentional hoax (except for the idiot who circulated it as

>real, whoever he was.)  It's page 101 of a fictional book titled "The

>Extraterrestrial Report", by Richard Siegel, John H. Butterfield, and

>Jean-Claude Suares, Copyright 1978, published by A&W Publishers, Inc., 95

>Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016.  Library of Congress Catalog Card

>Number 77-91031, ISBN # 0-89104-093-5.  (Just in case anyone wants to

>check.)

>

>The book contains a number of fake government documents, fake magazine

>articles, and fake newspaper articles.  The government documents and

>magazine articles are obvious satire.  The fake New York Times articles

>don't have a satirical tone, unfortunately.  (Unless, considering the

>publication date, the name "Lucas Hamill" is a reference to the movie "Star

>Wars".)

>

>I've often wondered whether the book could have been the inspiration for

>a large part of the conspiracy scenario as we know it today.  It starts

>with a document found in the Truman Library in which Truman is worried

>about the aliens, then jumps to the present where a SETI team makes contact

>with aliens.  The Federal Agency for Interstellar Contact (FAIC,

>obviously) is formed to take control of the situation.  They announce

>that the signal was a hoax and force the shutdown of the SETI facility,

>while secretly continuing work on it themselves.  FAIC is a highly

>secretive group, even President Carter doesn't have a clue about it.

>Eventually the aliens, who are friendly, land and sign a treaty with us.

>We grant them the right to fly through our solar system, and in return they

>educate us about the universe.  They warn us about a parasitic race who are

>on their way to Earth with a large spaceship to destroy us.  Eventually

>astronomers detect this ship, which is covered up by claiming that it's an

>asteroid.  Then the race is on to figure out a way to stop it.

>

>--

> *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

> Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

> 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

> Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)



%This might not be the place for it, but WOWZERS! this would make a great

novel or sci-fi novel. I have read J.G. Ballard who supposedly has a great

ability to synthesize and produce something that contains an admixture of

stories with parts that sound like they have been extracted from Government

Documents written in that Government Document Style. I was never very 

impressed by these things, perhaps it was becasue he kind of has a few too

many moral/philosophical axes to grind, and things seemed a little too

preachy in a sneaky way.


What I would be really interested in is a set of books that proport to

go on in this sort of style, with "fictional newspaper reports" and 

"fictional government documents" and the like, or something that mixes

fact and fiction for some effect like UFO ideas. I am less interested 

in the actual factual veracity of these materials, although some idea

of that would be nice, and more in the "romantic content" of them. That

is what they express about human emotions, desires and relations to

the concept of "alieness". Things thazt sound particualrly convincing

would be a good idea. I have read a lots of the "Commander X" type of

books about the proported underground tunnels, secret underground basis

etc. but they never seemed even emotionally convincing to me. There

were a few of the "alien breeding experiments" and "aliens created

humans beings from simian ancestors" that sounded at least emotionally

appealing and interesting. 


The big thing for me is that over the years I have become much more

interested in what all this means emotionally and intellectually to

people and less interested in the hardcore "nuts and bolts" although

I really do think that many people including nuts-and-boltzers, sceptics,

mystics and others do bring interesting insights to the area, but 

there does seem to be a dearth of "good written material" in my not

so humble opinion. So any helpful material would be much appreciated.



Thanks,

Sends Steve


chroma@toad.com


"Even Monkeys Fall From Trees"

Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy

From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: California CE-3's

Message-ID: <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu>

Date: 22 Feb 92 19:05:55 GMT

References: <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP>

Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Lines: 36


In article <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:

>Yesterday I saw an ABC news report on an anonymous family in California who

>claim that they're visited by aliens every night.  The aliens probe them

>with beams of light, sometimes right through the ceiling of the house while

>the family is awake.  They made drawings of the ships and they look fairly


   Couldn't be beams of light - ceilings tend to stop those.


>complex, with rows of lights or jets on the bottom.  They also have

>videotape of them, but the videotape just shows large, pale circular


   No surprise here.  You would think with all the camcorders out

 these days, one person would be able to actually film a UFO without

 focusing problems.  Bullshit about aliens affecting electronics is

 a cop-out.


>lights.  As a telescope owner, I'm nearly certain it's way out of focus

>(like part of the Scranton tape was) and possibly insufficiently bright as

>well -- would someone please buy these guys a low-light camera and show

>them how to use it?  Or a floodlight?  (The report even mentioned that

>people claim the tape is a camera effect, though they didn't offer any

>explanation of what lights were responsible for it.)  On the other hand,

>the lights move independently of each other and change brightness.

>

>The local news anchor mentioned the obvious question:  Why didn't the news

>crew stick around until nighttime?

>

   Because then the aliens would be scared away.  Yeah, right.




-- 

                   Phred Platypus [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ]           

"Technology is a way of organizing    \    

the universe so that man doesn't       \   The Grammarian of Vengeance

have to experience it."   -- Max Frisch \  

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!unido!mcsun!uknet!pyrltd!lucifer!mikeb

From: mikeb@eg.lucasauto.co.uk (Mike Brady)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1241@lucifer.UUCP>

Date: 19 Feb 92 17:00:17 GMT

References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors

Distribution: eunet

Organization: Lucas Powertrain Systems, Electronic Control Group, UK

Lines: 20

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4609 sci.space:26928 sci.skeptic:20918 alt.paranormal:4465



I remember reading of the first picture ever sent back by

Viking.  As the picture materialised on the screen those at

mission control were amazed to see a perfect letter 'E' on the

top corner.  Feeling slightly foolish they waited expectantly

for the rest of the message to appear.  It didn't.  It was just

a freak of nature.


Or was it?


Mike.


(source: i think it was Michener's faction novel 'Space')



///////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

//// It was me, not the company, although I was there.\\\\

//     I may be a germ up God's nose having the most    \\

//// unusual dream or else ... shshsh ... WOW ... it's real !!

///////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll

From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <1992Feb23.014702.24910@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

Date: 23 Feb 92 01:47:02 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com> <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com>

Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System)

Organization: University of Waterloo

Lines: 25


In article <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

>

>> What is Earth's radio noise output like these days? Assuming no

>>attempt on our part to be noticed by hypothetical ETIs, would it be 

>>obvious to the ETIs why the sun (or a close companion to it) appeared

>>to be a major radio source?

>

> UM --- that's one of the better suggestions.  You could get 

>several things from this: the distance from the Earth to the Sun,

>as well as the rotation and revolution periods of the Earth as well...

>I don't know how many Janskys the Earth puts out, offhand.

>

> The big problem here is of course where to look...  Even FM

>is a pretty large bandwidth to sample, and there isn't and logical reason

>for ETs to start looking there (that I know of).  

>


A hstory question here: anyone know how much of the way we use

radio (in terms of radio vs TV broadcasts, etc) is forced on us by 

physics and how much was a 'fluke' product of early decisions in the 

field (Like, for example, early radio stations using a range of frequencies,

forcing later EMR  communications to use other frequencies)?


James Nicoll

Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!news.bbn.com!hsdndev!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc8.harvard.edu!mcirvin

From: mcirvin@husc8.harvard.edu (Mcirvin)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new id

Summary: Accidental cross-postings

Keywords: Pointless cross-postings

Message-ID: <1992Feb22.221030.9074@husc3.harvard.edu>

Date: 23 Feb 92 03:10:27 GMT

References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu> <1992Feb21.010546.21356@news.Hawaii.Edu>

Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Lines: 21

Nntp-Posting-Host: husc8.harvard.edu


In article <1992Feb21.010546.21356@news.Hawaii.Edu> osborne@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Larry N. Osborne) writes:

>

>The article to which I'm following up, for example, was posted to:

>sci.skeptic, sci.physics, alt.sci.physics.new-theories,

>alt.paranormal, alt.alien.visitors, and sci.energy.  You may as well

>try giving a wine tasting for an AA group(1) ... its impolite and only

>causes ill-feelings.  (Although alt.sci.physics.new-theories is

>probably the exception, there seem to be a majority of rational and

>polite scientists there.)


The cross-posting to this group was an accident-- I neglected to

fully monitor the Newsgroups: line in the post in sci.physics to

which I was following up.  I'm sorry if this caused any hard feelings;

I didn't post that just to bait alt.alien.visitors et al. readers, but to

explain an attitude existing in sci.physics (which is the reason for

the references to a sci.physics regular).


Again, I apologize for the posting and shall try to be more vigilant

in the future (this message is not being crossposted).


Matt McIrvin

Path: ns-mx!uunet!jwt!gary

From: bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <LwRkgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Date: 23 Feb 92 02:10:44 GMT

References: <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com>

Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login)

Organization: The Matrix

Lines: 40


press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:


> In article <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:

> > 

> >      These things have taken over all the hospitals and so forth 

> > in LA, and the phone systems around the country.  They have a base 

> > somewhere where they are holding the REAL people they have cloned.  

> > If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely!  It is time to 

> > stand up and be counted as human beings, not some kind of play-

> > things.  This is Gary Stollman, signing off from LA, California, 

> > USA.  

> Hi Gary,

> I watch CNN alot...alot...alot..."`)twassle ummph, and I haven't

> noticed anything unusual. What is it we should look for?

> barry--


************

Well, when -I- watch it, and then suddenly switch to CNN headline news, 

they have switched it to the SAME story I was just watching...Please 

note, this has nothing to do with anyone except ME...The same thing goes 

(or went) for the local affiliates here in LA...My mom was replaced by 

respectively, Jesus, an alien clone created by the CIA, and several other 

beings trying to destroy my credibility but basically my family...I am 

not joking around about all this...I am QUITE sane, although I have been 

forced illegally into mental hospitals around the country over the past 

10 years...I have the proof...Pretty soon these things are gonna really 

regret having screwed around with MY family!!


One of the proof consists of documents on which not only MY signature was 

forged to obtain my medical records, but that of my case manager as 

well...HIS CLONE signed the document, and you can clearly see the 

difference in the signatures...I have had to wait years to get the proof, 

but they are all gonna pay dearly...That is, if God doesn't get them 

first!!!


        Gary

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!psuvax1!hsdndev!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc8.harvard.edu!mcirvin

From: mcirvin@husc8.harvard.edu (Mcirvin)

Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas

Summary: The cross-posting was an accident.  I'm sorry.

Keywords: Pointless cross-postings

Message-ID: <1992Feb22.223836.9076@husc3.harvard.edu>

Date: 23 Feb 92 03:38:35 GMT

References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu> <1992Feb21.010546.21356@news.Hawaii.Edu>

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Nntp-Posting-Host: husc8.harvard.edu


In article <1992Feb21.010546.21356@news.Hawaii.Edu> osborne@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Larry N. Osborne) writes:

>

>There are also those who _enjoy_ irritating people who don't have the

>same frame of reference.  It seems to me that posting OOBEs to

>sci.skeptic is asking for a bashing, similarly the skeptics who

>monitor alt.alien.visitors in order to point and laugh are morally

>repugnant. [...]


>

>The article to which I'm following up, for example, was posted to:

>sci.skeptic, sci.physics, alt.sci.physics.new-theories,

>alt.paranormal, alt.alien.visitors, and sci.energy.  You may as well

>try giving a wine tasting for an AA group(1) ... its impolite and only

>causes ill-feelings.  (Although alt.sci.physics.new-theories is

>probably the exception, there seem to be a majority of rational and

>polite scientists there.)


The cross-posting to which you refer was an accident; I was following

up to an article posted in sci.physics and many other places, and 

neglected to edit the Newsgroups: line.  Of the places where it

was posted, the two really inappropriate ones are alt.paranormal

and alt.alien.visitors;  I have already posted an apology in the

latter but seem to be having trouble posting to the former.


I assure you that the intention was not to bait anybody.  I was

trying to answer a question in sci.physics about what the questioner

thought was an intolerant attitude on the part of scientists, and

if I used fighting words, I'm sorry about that too.  .net.impoliteness

displeases me as much as it does you.


Again, I apologize for the mistake.


Matt McIrvin

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL

From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb23.044122.2652@cco.caltech.edu>

Date: 23 Feb 92 04:41:22 GMT

References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>,<1241@lucifer.UUCP>

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In article <1241@lucifer.UUCP>, mikeb@eg.lucasauto.co.uk (Mike Brady) writes:

>

>I remember reading of the first picture ever sent back by

>Viking.  As the picture materialised on the screen those at

>mission control were amazed to see a perfect letter 'E' on the

>top corner.  Feeling slightly foolish they waited expectantly

>for the rest of the message to appear.  It didn't.  It was just

>a freak of nature.


Even more interesting is the fact that in the first picture sent back by the

Viking lander, the Martian sky was BLUE.  Later, the folks as JPL recalibrated

the sensing instruments.  It still seems like quite a cooincidence to me that

the "miscalibration" resulted in something with a color scheme

indistinguishable from parts of Arizona.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL


Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My

understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So

unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my

organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to

hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy

From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <9yhhcrn@lynx.unm.edu>

Date: 23 Feb 92 06:16:56 GMT

References: <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com> <LwRkgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Lines: 46


In article <LwRkgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:

>press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:

>

>************

>Well, when -I- watch it, and then suddenly switch to CNN headline news, 

>they have switched it to the SAME story I was just watching...Please 

>note, this has nothing to do with anyone except ME...The same thing goes 

>(or went) for the local affiliates here in LA...My mom was replaced by 

>respectively, Jesus, an alien clone created by the CIA, and several other 

>beings trying to destroy my credibility but basically my family...I am 


    Your mom was replaced by Jesus?  Did you notice the sex change

 immediately?  An alien clone created by the CIA?  Which is it:

 alien or American Made? 


>not joking around about all this...I am QUITE sane, although I have been 

>forced illegally into mental hospitals around the country over the past 

>10 years...I have the proof...Pretty soon these things are gonna really 

>regret having screwed around with MY family!!


    Ooooohh.   


>

>One of the proof consists of documents on which not only MY signature was 

>forged to obtain my medical records, but that of my case manager as 

>well...HIS CLONE signed the document, and you can clearly see the 

>difference in the signatures...I have had to wait years to get the proof, 


     If it really WAS a clone, his handwriting would be the same.  I

 think you probably mean "doppleganger."



>but they are all gonna pay dearly...That is, if God doesn't get them 

>first!!!

>


    But wasn't your mom replaced by Jesus?  If so, then God is

 probably in on this too.  Looks like you'll have to take Him out

 as well.



-- 

"You ask me if sex is one of the most   \\    //     Phred Platypus

  important things in life?  Absolutely. \\  //  Grammarian of Vengeance

  But the lack of it is even likelier     \\// [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ]

  to drive you nuts."  -- Harlan Ellison   \/       Vincent J. Murphy

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news

From: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu>

Date: 23 Feb 92 08:36:59 GMT

References: <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com> <1992Feb23.014702.24910@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

Sender: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett)

Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA

Lines: 60

NNTP-Posting-Host: phad.hsc.usc.edu


>In article <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>>jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

>>

>>> What is Earth's radio noise output like these days? Assuming no

>>>attempt on our part to be noticed by hypothetical ETIs, would it be 

>>>obvious to the ETIs why the sun (or a close companion to it) appeared

>>>to be a major radio source?

>>

>>

>> The big problem here is of course where to look...  Even FM

>>is a pretty large bandwidth to sample, and there isn't and logical reason

>>for ETs to start looking there (that I know of).  

>>


Why wouldn't it be logical to look in those frequency ranges?  Let's see now, in radio astronomy, it is well known that

planets such as Jupiter have emissions in the 10M band...  Inquriring minds would only have to look approximately 30MHz

above that in order to find the beginning of the low VHF television band..  Any 'ET' supposedly looking for other life

would no doubt be doing a broad-band spectrum analysis of surrounding regions just to plot anything out of the ordinary.


Why search in the lower frequency ranges?  Well, let's just say that it would be the lowest common denominator.  Most 

early technological societies would have to start in those frequency ranges, because the technology needed to transmit

in that frequency range is minimal.  In the under-200MHz range we are already visible to all stars within say a 75 year

radius.  Narrow the range to approxamitly 40 years, and we probably are brighter than the Sun in the under 20GHz range.


If I was an ET astronomer, I would be highly interested in why within roughy 75 years, there has appeared with growing

intensity a radio source out of seemingly nowhere that at this point outshines it's star over a broad range of frequencies

under 20GHz.  Many of the frequencies being pulsed at precise very fast intervals at very high power, and others with 

evidence of many types of modulation.


If they have skeptics there, no doubt some would be coming up with possibilities of a compact star, or be saying that

it is just noise.  But further analysis would no doubt show that the patterns are chaotic indeed, but still follow a

fairly predictable non-random pattern.  If they have recievers sensitive enough, they may be able to decode some of 

our modulation after zeroing in on some of the stronger non-pulsed [non-radar] information carrying frequencies.


But then, you may be right...  It may just be illogical that they would be looking at all, no doubt their leadership may

be just as thick-skinned as our world's, and they will be discussing philosophy and politics instead of providing the

money [or whatever they may use] to actually do something beyond talk.


I just had another thought along those lines, maybe this is the reason our governments don't want to fund SETI like

projects: 'If we are so conspicous, they'll come to us' [Hell of a pompous attitude to take, eh?].


Isn't it amazing that UFO sightings really started [in the UFO sense] in the mid to late '40's?  Roughly 20 to 30

years after most of the ground-breaking research into higher frequencies in radio.  And has increased stedily since

in every culture, in every corner of the globe.  If a SETI-like project were to become reality [highly unlikely], they

should concentrate primarily within a 40 year radius in order to find anything, and to look for earth-like transmissions

and modulation, as if they have recieved our communications, and also decoded our modulation methods, would it not also

be likely that they would attempt to resond in like fashion?  Even if they do not understand our languages, would it not

be strange to hear a 20 to 40 year old radio broadcast or see a TV broadcast from that time frame coming from an amplified

source in the vicinity of another star?  It would effectively get the point across that the message was recieved, eh?  Of 

course such a broadcast would have to be sustained until contact was made [after all we might not be looking in the right

direction for some time], but it would probably be justified on the part of the ETs, how often do you find out that you are

not alone in the universe?  Wouldn't we do the same?


Enough said, I'll await your cheers [and jeers] for this little speech!


-- 

+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------

| dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu  | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed,

|   Just my opinions!     | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! - #6, The Prisoner

+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------

Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews

From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Cry of the Phar Right -- Part 21/60

Message-ID: <111657.29A6B5CB@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 22 Feb 92 17:34:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ

Lines: 41


In a message to All <11 Feb 92 19:03> Andrew Ormsby wrote:


 AO> In article <1992Feb9.124424.28269@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp

 AO> (Don Allen) writes:


 AO>   "There  does  exist  an  international  Anglophile  network which

 AO>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^

 AO>   operates, to some extent, in the way the Radical  Right  believes

 AO>   the Communists act.  In fact, this network, which we may identify

 AO>   as  the  Round  Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with

 AO>   the Communists--and frequently does so." 


 AO> According to my dictionary, an Anglophile is someone with excessive

 AO> admiration of English customs. Does this mean an end to tea drinking

 AO> as we know it?


Please don't despair, Andrew.  The Right-Wing International Anglophile conspiracy may yet prevail!  Of course, this victory would lead inevitably to forced tea-drinking, caning, Pedophilia, and BBC-1 write-ins among the educated classes.


Personally I approve of this, because I'm not averse to a nice bit of crumpet from time to time myself.  :-)


Also, before we condemn the Right-Wing International Anglo-pedophile plot, we should ask ourselves honestly if we are *really* prepared for the alternative.  Without order, decorum and caning, the world would be reduced to a giant Monty Python Cheese Shop sketch.  Besides which, we would be forced to stop using Third-World babies to make the upholstery for our Jags.  It would be an environment too alien and ungratifying to bear.


 AO> Is it possible to summarise this "Cry of the Pheonix" thread? I've

 AO> only glanced at a small part of it. Seems pretty incoherent to me.


Incoherent?  REALLY??


 AO> What is it all about?  Something to do with JFK?  Or Japanese food? 


Well, according to the alien master Hatoon (or Cartoon or Poltroon or something), William Milton Cooper of California killed JFK with some blowfish sushi.  Then Governor Connally covered up the crime by shooting JFK, himself, and Lee Harvey Oswald...


I know it's confusing.


Cheers,

  R. Clark Matthews



--  

Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews

From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Book: Cry of The Phoenix - Whut to do?

Message-ID: <111655.29A6B5C7@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 22 Feb 92 17:14:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ

Lines: 24


In a message to All <11 Feb 92 19:01> Don Allen wrote:


 DA> I make no claims of the material and as such it is presented to you

 DA> to do with as you see fit.


Hi Don.  This Hatonn stuff you posted is electronic.


I'm not complaining, but I have to print it out before I can put it in my birdcage.  I have found this to be time-consuming, but well worth the effort.


Thank you for sharing that with us!  :-)


Best,

  Clark


PS -- After studying W.M. Cooper's claims re: the Kennedy's driver, I have come to a startling conclusion:  COOPER killed JFK!  U heard it here first.






--  

Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews

From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Do Not Accept Cthulhu Cheques!

Message-ID: <111656.29A6B5C9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 22 Feb 92 17:27:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ

Lines: 19


In a message to All <11 Feb 92 19:02> johwessb@kontu.cc.utu.fi wrote:


 jo>  I told him latest news from this dimension and prepared some coffee.

 jo>  Then he gave me a pouch containing some Cthulhumoney. After this

 jo>  my bed got a brand new place and Cthulhu got his dimensional link

 jo>  to work again.


Hello, Johan!


Congratulations on your Cthulhumoney!  But be warned:  Do not accept Cthulhucheques!


Best,

  Clark



--  

Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews

From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Grey Aliens Sighted .... Again

Message-ID: <111658.29A6B5CD@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 22 Feb 92 18:01:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ

Lines: 23


In a message to Jerry Michael Grimm <12 Feb 92 09:11> Michael Corbin wrote:


 MC> The bottom line is that Bill Cooper just doesn't

 MC> hold water, 


Hi Mike.  Sounds like Mr. Cooper has prostate trouble to me.  Combined with his Dementia Praecox, it's a terrible tragedy.


Of course, he's had a full life and he got away with killing JFK, so he can't complain.


 MC> so anything he says should be taken with a large

 MC> block of salt and tongue planted firmly in cheek.


Or alternatively, anything he says is a large block of something else.


Cheerio,

  Clark




--  

Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!apple!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!payner

From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <mvhh0-ppayner@netcom.com>

Date: 23 Feb 92 04:02:43 GMT

References: <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com> <1992Feb22.022929.29031@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Distribution: na

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Lines: 626


In article <1992Feb22.022929.29031@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>In article <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...

>> 

>>>In article <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...

>>>>In article <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>>>>In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...

>>>>>>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>>>>>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...

>> 

>>>>>Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.

>>>> 

>>>>Curiously, when many people _say_ UFO, they mean _alien spacecraft_.

>>>>So what they are talking about is not an unknown deserving of study,

>>>>but those darn aliens. 

>> 

>>>Ah, but who cares?  If you read my previous posts, you won't find _me_

>>>attributing UFO's to "alien spacecraft".  I've been arguing about the

>>>phenomenon.  Once again, someone else (you, this time) is forcing the

>>>"alien" issue.

>> 

>>>Why?

>> 

>>I'm not forcing this or any other issue. This -->is<-- alt.alien.visitors,

>>and if you have followed the other threads, you will know about the planet

>>ummo, the greys, several conspiracies, etc...  And they do belong here.

>>How is it that you can act as they are not part of the phenomena? Any

>>study which ignores part of the data cannot be considered unbiased.

>

>First, I realize this is alt.alien.visitors.  However, the original thread

>started with someone (Don Allen I think) posting some statistics concerning

>the percentage of astronomers that thought the UFO phenomenon should 

>receive further scientific study.  There was _no_, 0, nadda mention of

>"aliens" in that post.

>

>The fact that Don posted here may _imply_ that aliens should be attributed,

>but the content of the post shows otherwise.


It's not that it was or was not mentioned before. I brought it up because

is is an aspect of the phenomena. Are you advocating study of the phenomena,

selected parts of the phenomena, or something else that I am missing

completely?

 

>Granted, maybe we should take this to sci.skeptic, and if you desire this,

>I'll start adding it to the newsgroups: line, but I suspect that if we

>do, those folks will tell us that it belongs in alt.alien.visitors, since

>the armchair skeptic is the one that _usually_ makes the attribution when

>the debate becomes difficult for them to handle.


I see no real point in moving. As you say, it belongs here as much as there.

 

>>>>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth

>>>>>>>about this phenomenon need apply.

>>>> 

>>>>Need there be a single TRVTH? Or even just one phenomenon? I thought

>>>>we were dealing with an unknown? Hopefully I have guessed correctly

>>>>who originally said this.

>> 

>>>Absolutely.  Show me where I have insisted that there is _one_ truth to

>>>be found here.

>> 

>>I see above  ">>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth".

>>And I checked, these were your words. Are you saying the "the truth"

>>is non-singular? 

>

>No, _you_ implied this.


This seems to be dodging the issue. I quoted your words, and you respond that

it was only what I had implied. And this issue seems irrelevant anyway. Hows

about either you just clairiy whatever it is you mean, or we drop this?

 

>> 

>>>>>My statement about "truth" stands.

>> 

>>>> 

>>>>I tend to think that there is no truth, just different points of

>>>>view. 

>> 

>>>No offense, but doesn't this statement strike you as rather "unscientific"?

>> 

>>Scientific investigation is good for exploring objective reality. But

>>"truth" is not an objective reality. I would say that any study

>>go find some objective "truth" would absolutely not be a scientific

>>investigation. 

>

>Ok.  You have your own definition of "truth".  That's fine, as long as we

>both know this.

>

>My definition of "truth" is a simple one.  A "fact" is a "truth".  Something

>that is a part of objective reality is a "truth".  

>

>Let's stop playing with words and address the issue, ok?


As above, lets do. But I would like to point out that one can tell the exact

truth, and be 100% wrong. But I would prefer that we refer to "scientific

truths" as established facts or something similiar.

 

>>>>>>

>>>>>>Simple question:  You want repeatability.  Show me how you can, in a 

>>>>>laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in

>>>>>a nuclear fission reaction.  Show me a real, honest to goodness

>>>>>black hole.

>>>> 

>>>>This seems to be a straw-man argument. The truth or falsity of the

>>>>above has no bearing upon the value of studying the "UFO phenomenon".

>>>>Nevertheless, fission, while not predictable, is quite repeatable,

>>>>and the rate can be measured. Now if only UFO observations were as

>>>>repeatable, this thread would never have existed. And there is

>>>>a pretty good theoretical basis behind black holes. What theory

>>>>perdicts UFO`s? 

>> 

>>>>What theory predicts that atom 1E37 will divide?  Look, the point I'm

>>>>trying to make is that we keep hearing that the UFO phenomenon is not

>>>>repeatable in a laboratory.  Of course it isn't.  But neither are other

>>>>things which we _accept_ in science as valid.  I have yet to see the

>>>>difference.

>> 

>>>Most importantly, much of science does NOT begin in the laboratory in

>>>a repeatable setting.  It begins with _something_ that raises questions.


True.


>>>If that "something" has raised a question, then the next step is to

>>>decide whether we can _try_ to answer it.  That is where the current

>>>state of the study of the UFO phenomenon rests.  It has never gone

>>>beyond this.

>> 

>>>For one to cry that there is no "repeatable" evidence of the phenomenon

>>>is to deny the birth of other scientific advances.  Many of those did

>>>not start in a laboratory.  They started with _observation_, something

>>>that should be a holy word to science.

>> 

>>The key here is that repeatable phenomena _can_ be investigated. If

>>we had only reports of uranium atome splitting, and from at best

>>questionable sources, would we be talking about fission today?

>

>And are all (in fact most) _sources_ of sighting reports "questionable"?


How many UFO photo's have turned up being faked? It was once a quick was to

get publicity. This is a fact easily established by a trip to the library.

Do you say this is not true?

 

>What are you implying?


Nothing, I'll say it clearly. There has been much fakery, fraud, lying,

deliberatly falsified evidence, and involvement by para-normal/newage 

<beyond> science persons in the UFO phenomena. Even without the governments

involvement, this would make a UFO study a questional endeavor for anyone

seeking a career in science.


BTW, those who have read the Conden<sp?> report claim that the text of the

study is at odds with the conclusion, which is what most people read. One

of these days I hope to find time to read this.

 

>>>Fission, as a phenomenon, is deliberately repeatable.  I agree.

>> 

>>>However, there was a time when it was _not_.  It was only a "theory".

>> 

>>As I recall, atoms at the time were considered unsplitable. Theory

>>denied that atome could split. Only after it was undisputably

>>observed was the phenomenon given proper study, and the nuclear

>>sciences were born.

>

>Again, I think we need to agree on a definition of "undisputably

>observed".  You seem to keep avoiding my insistance that I have been

>talking about the ufo _phenomenon_.  Not a singular report of a strange

>object seen in the sky by Bayou Bill.


My point is that a phenonema cannot be observed, only events. In this

case the events that make up the phenomena have proved difficult to

observe. Any study of the phenomena would seem to _require_ better

observations as a bare minimum. Or perhaps the 'men in black' will

prevent any such observations?? :^)  Are they not part of the phenomena

as well?

 

>I think UFO's have been "undisputably observed".  If not, tell me why


Agreed, but the key here is the U --> unidentified.


>you disagree and what would change your mind.  Remember that I am

>referring to what I consider the undeniable existance of the _phenomenon_,

>NOT a particular object.


Are you referring to the UFO's, or to the observations of UFO's as the

phenomena, or both?

 

>>>How did we achieve repeatability?  By studying the processes that we

>>>thought should lead to it.  Call it a bit of forensic science if you

>>>will.  In any case, we _believed_ (for the most part) that we should

>>>be able to actually split something we could not see and still haven't.

>> 

>>Did we achieve repeatability? Is this not intrinsic to either

>>the phenomenon or to our methods of observation?

>

>Yes.  At the macro level, that is true.

>

>Suppose you really wanted to study the ufo phenomenon.  How would _you_

>propose achieving repeatability of a phenomenon that exists but is

>"transient" in nature?


I have no good ideas on how to study the phenomena. The obvious approach

would be to record all sitings, and look at an area showing the highest

frequency of observations. This may or may not bear fruit. 

 

>>>At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth, I'll go one step further and

>>>say that fission is NOT repeatable and NOT predictable for any particular

>>>single atom.  There is a probability that atom #1E37 _may_ divide.

>> 

>>This is solidly accepted as scientific fact. But still the rate of

>>decay can easily be measured, and hence we have half-lives. What is

>>the half-life of a phenomenon? Or a UFO? And how would you measure

>>this? 

>

>Does it matter?  What is the "half-life" of the violent crime phenomenon?

>

>What is the "half-life" of the ball-lightning phenomenon?

>

>What is the "half-life" of the earthquake "phenomenon"?

>

>How would you measure these?


The point was that we have a measure, in this case half-life. It is appropriate

for radioactive decay, and a few other models as far as I know, and none of

them are mentioned in your list. A better question would seem to be, by what

metric do we measure the phenomena, or aspects of the phenomena. If you cannot

answer this, the best you can do would be to mindlessly gather all data 

possible in the hopes of distilling some key relationships. When I first got

Appleworks in 1985(?) my first project was to enter all the data from the

bermuda triangle books to see what I could find. The one clear relationship

was that the highest number of reported missing ships were in December and

June (if I remember correctly). Winter storms and summer tropical storms and

squalls would explain almost everything. There was a low noise level for the

rest of the months. And if you have two hypothesis that explain an observation

equally well, the rule is that the simplest is preferred.


>The point I'm making is that not all "phenomena" are predictable,

>reproducible on demand, and directly measurable.  Some of these are

>readily accepted by science as valid, even though science can't 

>really practice what it preaches when faced with them.


And in all these there is some key metric that characterizes the phenomena.

 

>> 

>>>>>

>>>>>In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.

>>>

>>  

>>>>No argument, but where do we go from here? This alone is not

>>>>sufficient.

>> 

>>>You and I agree on this.  The answer seems obvious to me.  You don't

>>>argue that the _phenomenon_ is real (as I stated above).  So, if this

>>>"alone is not sufficient", we do what science dictates that we do.

>> 

>>I guess that I was unclear. I agree that the phenomena exists.

>>That was what was meant by "No argument."

>> 

>>>We study it further.

>> 

>>It does not neccesarily follow that the existance of a phenomena

>>makes it worthwhile to study. It may or may not be. But there are

>>an infinite number of things to study (OK, a very large number),

>>and neither you nor I nor anyone has time or resources to study

>>them all. So we go with out strengths.

>

>I agree.  So, if one chooses to "study" the phenomenon _scientifically_,

>why the stigma on those who actually attempt this?


See above, but this is still something that must be dealt with.

 

>Who decides what is "worthy"?  The government?  You?  Me?  The rest of

>"science"?

>If we are asking for money to study, then it makes sense that the

>moneygiver makes the decision (either directly or indirectly).

>

>But that says absolutely nothing about how "worthy" something is of

>scientific study.  It is, in a sense, a straw man.


I would say that the word "worthy" requires a value judgement. So

there would seem to be no absolute worthyness. Just many personal value

judgements.

 

>If we are arguing the merits of studying one phenomenon over another,

>based on available funding, then we are discussing...well...the topic

>of funding.


If a serius study is to be done, it will have to be funded somehow. 

 

>However, that was not and is not why this thread on astronomers and 

>ufos began. 


Threads drift, and this is neither right or wrong. But to ignore what

others say while complaining that others are not responding to what

you said (and this happens all too often) is not the basis of a

reasonable discussion. I was generalizing here, please do not read the

"you" above as referring to yourself. But specifically, you have done

some of this.

 

>> 

>>>> 

>>>>>Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists.  Evidence for a particular "UFO"

>>>>>(whatever that may be) does not.

>>>> 

>>>>A flying saucer might be studied. How does one study a phenomenon?

>> 

>>>Ask a psychologist.

>> 

>>Then who are we discussion UFO's as a subject for scientific

>>investigation?

>

>Can you ask this again?  I don't understand the above (it's garbled).

>

>Sorry.


Is the UFO phenomena a phenomena requiring scientific study, or psychological 

study?

 

>>>> 

>>>>>Now, let me rephrase the above....

>>>>>

>>>>>"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists.  Evidence that

>>>>>atom #1E37 is going to split does not.

>>>>>

>>>>>Do you see my point?

>>>> 

>>>>I see your point. But things with boring repeatability have never

>>>>been that difficult to study.

>> 

>>>I would venture to say that the reporting of UFO sightings occurs quite

>>>often worldwide.  Can we demand that a UFO appear?  No.  Therefore, it is

>>>not repeatable on demand.  So what?  That doesn't change the fact that

>>>thousands of reports occur annually.

>> 

>>So what? Let's not confuse "repeatable on demand" with completely

>>random in place and time. If only the place were repeatable, then

>>one might set up some sort of automated equipment to look for

>>EM bursts, changes in the magnetic field, etc...  But it is difficult

>>to monitor the entire world at all times.

>

>Well, we do that with meteorologically satellites all the time :-).

>We do it with geological instruments all the time.


Then why is there no evidence for the phenomena from these sources?

This is data.

 

>In certain "flaps" of sightings, it is done.  But, it is _still_ not

>seriously considered or studied by mainstream science.  

>

>The opportunity has shown itself numerous times, but...no bites.

>

>And, when someone within the Ufology community (and I refer to the

>serious investigators, not the channeling space brother folks),

>that too is conveniently ignored because armchair sceptics have already

>made up their minds.


What have the serious investigators done? What has been ignored?

 

>There is a wealth of data gathered via investigation by serious

>investigators, that is just _waiting_ to be chewed upon (and perhaps

>spit out) by mainstream science, but it doesn't even bite.


And where is this data kept? Statistical investigation could be done

by anyone with a background easily attained at city college at night.

And the number crunching is easily done by a PC with a stat package.

It does not require a multimillion-dollar investigation if there is

good data already available. If they have useful data and cannot figure

out what to do with it, "serious inverstgator" seems a bit strong to me.

 

>>>>>

>>>>>Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).

>>>>>It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters.  If you're

>>>>>in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.

>>>> 

>>>>I think that the requirements to eat and pay the rent might

>>>>just possibly make it into the objective category. Unless you

>>>>make a living doing something else, and study the phenomenon on

>>>>your own.

>> 

>>>No.  That makes it especially subjective.

>> 

>>I would say that requirements for food, shelter, and clothing are

>>objective. To each their own I guess.

>> 

>

>In a collective sense, I could stretch the word "objective" to make it

>fit.

>

>In any case, these are givens.  The "worthiness" of getting answers to

>unanswered questions is still purely subjective.


Agreed, and this is a problem, not an asset.

 

>>>>>Such as?  You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of

>>>>>the UFO phenomenon.  That is blatantly false.  Would you care to provide

>>>>>evidence of this?

>>>> 

>>>>It is not possible to _prove_ that a thing does not exist.

>>>>Rather, the problem here is defining just what the phenomenon

>>>>is. Right now all we have is the 'phenomenon' label, and claims

>>>>of alien spacecraft. Would you care to try to get funding

>>>>based upon this?

>> 

>>>I'm not asking for that.  I simply meant that if you _are_ implying that

>>>those who _do_ seriously study the subject (few as they may be) are not

>>>doing so in a scientific manner, then you evidently have evidence of some

>>>sort to lead you to make such an assertion.

>> 

>>Did I say that ">those who _do_ seriously study the subject" do so

>>unscientifically? I don't see it in rereading. And therefore I do

>>not seem to have made any assertions. You, above, do say that

>>there is valid scientific investigation going on. Would you be so

>>kind as to elucidate?

>

>Hmmm.  I should point out that _you_ used the word "valid" above.  


I did, it would save much time if we would get to the point rather that

bickering about who said what. Are the investigation you refer to valid

(in a scientific sense) or not?

 

>The most obvious investigation that comes to mind is that of

>Trans en Province.  That was an actual _trace_ case.  Sorry, but there

>were not pieces of unidentified craft.  There _was_ true scientific

>analysis of soil and botanic traces, but three different laboratories.

>

>If you really want the poop, I'll get the references next week since

>they're at work.


Not right now, midterms you know (or do now). Perhaps you could mail them

and I could get to them when time allows.

 

>In a nutshell, an unusual object was observed to have hit or skimmed

>the ground, only to take off again shortly after.

>

>The traces left were unexplainable characteristic changes to the soil

>in the immediate vicinity of the object, and unusual changes to surrounding

>plantlife.

>

>Soil samples were submitted to 3 (if I recall) laboratories, went through

>various tests, and all three reports were in agreement.


What did they agree on?

 

>> 

>>>As for defining the phenomenon...well...I don't see that as a problem.

>> 

>>Once again, we have a label : UFO. This is just a bit short of

>>defining the phenomenon for my taste. Would you care to spell out

>>what you mean by the "phenomenon" for me? 

>

>Apparently we both misunderstand each other.

>

>When talking about the UFO phenomenon, I see two distinct categories

>ripe for study.

>

>a.) A particular sighting, case, whatever you wish to consider.  This

>    is the most difficult (IMO) to study, since it is by definition

>    a transient phenomenon.

>

>b.) The phenomenon.  Even this may be subdivided into categories, such

>    as the abduction phenomenon, which is slowly but surely beginning 

>    to be studied by real scientists and some respected scientists in the

>    field of psychology.

>

>    In any case, when I refer to the study of the _phenomenon_, I am

>    referring to the fact that _something_ is going on.  It simply

>    hasn't been explained.


Better, but "something unexplained" is very vague. Guarenteed to generate

misunderstandings. Perhaps it would help to summarize the aspects of the

phenomena. This would clairfy what is being discussed and what is not.

 

>>>The phenomenon _is_.  If one weighs most if not all of the anecdotal and

>>>physical trace evidence, it's clear that there is no single _cause_ of

>>>the phenomenon.  In fact, the phenomenon may be divided into categories.

>> 

>>>And yes, I _did_ say "physical trace evidence".

>> 

>>>I'll be happy to explain if you wish, but let's assume that I'm right.

>> 

>>>What's the difference between this "trace" evidence and say, trace evidence

>>>that the element Lead was once unstable?  We can't repeat that can we?

>> 

>>I still do not think that atomic decay is a proper parallel to the

>>UFO phenomenon.

>

>I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.


Then perhaps it would be best to choose another parallel, or an analogy

that can be agreed upon. Even better, drop them all and deal with the

topic itself.

 

>While atomic decay is repeatable and predictable on the macro scale,

>you cannot make a particular atom split.

>

>The UFO phenomenon exists.  It is not repeatable _on demand_.  It is

>repeatable in the sense that it continues.  It is not predictable

>on a macro scale, but is somewhat predictable on the "regional" scale

>(ie flaps usually occur over an extended period in a particular area).

>

>> 

>>>>>

>>>>>The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time.  Unfortunately,

>>>>>it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because

>>>>>of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject.  What I

>>>>>find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the

>>>>>_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current

>>>>>SETI research.  That is absurd.

>>>> 

>>>>While I think the chances of SETI working are so slim as to

>>>>make it a wasted effort, how does one compare SETI to a conspiricy

>>>>theory, and find an absurdity. 

>> 

>>>"Conspiracy"?  What are you talking about?  Did I miss something?

>> 

>>Keep reading alt.aliens.visitors, if you have not seem any conspiracy

>>theories, you will. Many posts are cross-posted to alt.conspiracy.

>

>But that's my point.  What does any conspiracies have to do with this

>discussion?  I haven't implied any, have I?


I think that they are _part_ of the phenomena. 

 

>>>>Also you claim we have a UFO

>>>>'phenomenon', not alien intelligence, how do you reconcile that

>>>>with the clear implication that UFO are extraterrestial

>>>>intelligences above?

>> 

>>>No, no, NO!  I am not equating the two.  I'm pointing out that "science"

>>>is perfectly happy to look for something it has 0 evidence for (unless you

>> 

>>But they are lookin for something they can detect using well known

>>tools and techniques. And in places where they might expect to find

>>life.

>

>You mean like eyes to look at instruments?  Minds to form hypothesis?

>

>The truth is, in SETI, they really don't _know_ what to look for.  They

>_assume_ that communication is most likely to occur at certain "magic"

>frequencies.

>

>They are looking for something they can detect, as you said.  But

>_why_ are they looking _where_ they're looking?

>

>Look, it is very common for people to attribute UFO's to ETI.

>

>There really is no evidence to support that assumption.

>

>However, don't you find it ironic that we would be spending millions

>looking for something light years away that we have yet to sense,

>let alone have any evidence for, and yet, right here at home we have

>thousands of reports of unidentified objects annually, which most

>people naturally (but perhaps mistakenly) attribute to little green

>men, and yet, we don't pay attention?


Not necessarily, I find it hard to believe that they will not make many

useful observations, and that there will not be some benefit. I just doubt 

that they will find what they are looking for.

 

>We search for ETI elsewhere with little probability of success, yet

>ignore the possibility of better success right here at home.


Again, you equate UFO with ETI. This time directly. And yet you take

me to task for bring up aliens? This confuses me a great deal.

 

>> 

>>>consider the fact that _we_ exist the evidence).  Yet, when we have

>>>thousands of people worldwide making extraordinary claims, many with

>>>physical traces, instrumental observations, etc., we laugh it off as

>>>nothing.

>> 

>>I'll admit, after much study, I still do not know what to make of the

>>phenomenon. But cleary there is much fraud and fakery. And many of

>>the observations are natural phenomenon under unusual circumstances.

>>And many extrordinary claims are made. Why does the onus of proof

>>rest upon the scientific community?

>

>Who said it does?  Not me.  I didn't mean to imply that.  All I will

>assert is that the onus of further serious study rests with those 

>most qualified to do so.  That is known as responsibility.


I do not see that this follows at all. The onus of proof lies upon those

making the claims requiring proof. Regardless if there are those better

qualified or not, that is a non-sequitor.

 

>If proof comes from that, fine.

>

>That is why I made an earlier remark about forensic science.  It _is_

>a science, you know.  It's sole purpose is to _study_ any available

>evidence (usually in the form of traces), and come to some sort of

>conclusion.


Forensic science deals with evidence, not observations. It will be useful

only if there is some physical trace left behind. This is rarely the

case as I understand it. But I think that assumptions build into the

firensic sciences (like humans are involved using known materials and

equipment) might render forensics less usable than you might think.

If all they could do was say "event X happened, we do not know how it

was done, and the observations cannot be reproduced by known tools and

techniques", then no useful conclusions would be forthcoming.

 

>But, if that was never done, a criminal case would have a difficult

>time proceeding.


And perhaps they are already occupied with investigating human crimes.

 

>In like manner, true, serious investigation into the ufo phenomenon is

>a precursor to doing any real "science" (IMO).  That isn't happening

>in mainstream science except perhaps in the field of psychology.

>

>> 

>>Rich again

>> 

>>payner@netcom.com

>

>Jim Graham - ditto 

>

>        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

>                          Neither do they speak for me.

> ______________________________________________________________________

>| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

>|           dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu                        |

>| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |

>|            (812) 334-0418, 24hrs.                                    |

>|______________________________________________________________________|


Rich again, again!

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscdc!hplabs!hpfcso!jle

From: jle@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jer/ Eberhard)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: .. .

Message-ID: <20550041@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>

Date: 23 Feb 92 01:59:26 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.215536.75751@cs.cmu.edu>

Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

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> > >... .. .. .  /.. . ... . ... .

     S   I  I  E   I  E S   E S   E


SO, it didn't really mean anything.


Jer/ Eberhard, (SLASH), HAM = N0FZD     | Hewlett-Packard - MS99, 1UP10,15'East

Pilot: COMM, INST, CFI-Airplane & Glider| 3404 East Harmony Road (303) 229-2861

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From: bruce@stanton.UUCP (Gordon Bruce)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Keywords: mars pyramids

Message-ID: <46481@stanton.UUCP>

Date: 22 Feb 92 00:12:38 GMT

References: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> <1992Feb17.212745.14815@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

Followup-To: poster

Organization: Stanton Public Domain Systems, Stanton, Ca.

Lines: 76

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4623 sci.space:26937 sci.skeptic:20922 alt.paranormal:4467


In article <1992Feb17.212745.14815@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Scott D. Young) writes:

> >jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:

> >Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike 

> >the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees 

> >or other objects in outlins.

>    Where do you get this from?  There are (I believe) 2, count'em, 2 shots of

>    this feature.  Both have the same sun angle and thus the same shadows. No

>    oblique-angle shots or shots with other sun-angles exist.  Thus your

>    statement is ridiculous.  The face looks like a face when the sun shines at

>    one particular angle and when viewed from a certain angle.  That is all we

>    "know" to date.  It may be that the feature resembles a face at other angles,

>    or not.  We will not "know"  until more data is available.

>    Scott Young

>    youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca


Scott,


Your information is incorrect.


The two shots of the Face on Mars were taken at two different angles of the 

spacecraft with respect to he feature.  The photographs were also taken at 

two different times in the Martian day and with a two week interval between 

the two pictures.  The shadows and angles in the two photos are not the same 

and do indeed provide sufficient data to construct a three dimensional image. 


I have read Hoagland's book.  I also obtained copies of the pictures of the

feature.  The feature is there.  Does this mean that there was, at sometime 

in the past, a civilization on Mars?  No. 


Does it mean that the feature should be ignored and forgotten?  I believe

that the answer is also No.  Because we encounter something that is not 

expected does not mean it is a hoax or someone's over-active immagination. 

Because some individuals are ready to state that the feature is an artifact 

does not make it an artifact.  Conversely, because some individuals are ready

to state that the feature is a natural formation does not make it a natural

formation.


A true skeptic will look at the available information and based on the 

evidence reach some sort of a conclusion.  The photos indicate something 

that is unusual and (to me) interesting.  Are the features artifacts 

left by some long gone civilization?  I don't know.  There is not enough 

information available to prove this.  Are the features a natural formation?

I don't know. There is not enough evidence to prove this either. 


My conclusion is that there is photographic evidence of some unusual features

on the surface of Mars.  There is not enough evidence to determine what the

features are.  


Most of us who are interested in the Face on Mars are not claiming that it is

an artifact.  We are only saying that it (and the other near by features) 

deserve a closer look.  It was suggested that the next Mars probe be timed to 

pass over the area in question and take some closer photos.  It is my 

understanding that NASA officials have agreed to do this.


Gordon









 


-- 

===============================================================================

| Gordon Bruce; DataComm Consultant |  The opinions expressed here are mine   |

| bruce@stanton.cts.com             |  and are not necessarily the opinions   |

| stanton!bruce                     |  of my clients or employers.            |

===============================================================================

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!brmd1

From: kevin@taronga.taronga.com (Kevin Brown)

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.044050.943@menudo.uh.edu>

Date: 24 Feb 92 04:40:50 GMT

References: <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu> <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>

Sender: kevin@taronga.taronga.com

Reply-To: kevin@taronga.taronga.com (Kevin Brown)

Organization: Minimal.

Lines: 90

Xref: ns-mx sci.space:26941 alt.paranormal:4468 alt.alien.visitors:4624 sci.skeptic:20929


In article <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> Frank T Lofaro <fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>From alt.paranormal (USENET): 20-Feb-92 Re: Dreamland Gerry

>Roston@cs.cmu.edu (919)

>

>>Jon

>>If I were to say that people with acne were actuallt Martians in

>>disguise, would you say:

>>a) He's full of shit.

>>b) I can not form an opinion, but the burden of proof is on him.

>

>>Although what you said about skepticism being a two edged sword is

>>correct, there are certain ideas that can be quickly flushed without

>>resorting to experimentation, etc.

>

>>Like pyschotics being ingabited by demon.

>

>>Or people with acne being Martians.

>

> That is a somewhat hollow argument. You are comparing the statement

>being tested to something that is obviously ridiculous and then using

>that as the basis for attacking the original statement. 


And what, exactly, makes one statement "obviously ridiculous" and the other

not?


>While it would

>be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by

>demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many

>of them are. 


Wrong.  Look, if you can say "Some psychotics are the way they are because

they are possessed by demons" then I can say that "Some people are nice

because they're possessed by Santa Claus".  Both statements are of the

same form, and both are equally ridiculous.


The reason, of course, is simple: neither Santa Claus nor demons have any

significant positive physical evidence supporting their existence.



>If someone gets possessed by a demon (which I *do* believe

>happens, though not very often)


And why do you believe that this happens at all?  What physical evidence

to you have in support of the existence of demons?  None?


Then why don't you believe in Santa Claus as well?


>they will appear to unenlightened

>science to be mentally ill. 


"Unenlightened science", eh?


You want to know how far your boogieman beliefs have gotten mankind?  Take

a look at the Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials.  Then try to come

up with some *positive* contribution such beliefs have made (that cannot

as easily be attributed to something else).  Bet you can't.


I, on the other hand, can come up with *lots* of goodies that are the

result of "unenlightened science".  The computer I'm typing this on,

for example.  My car, for example.  Air conditioning.  Television.

Radio.  Lasers (which get you things like compact discs).  VCRs.

Photography of all forms, from black and white still pictures to

full-color, 70mm Dolby Surround theater films.  Aircraft.  And on and

on and on.  Shall I continue?


>Modern science does not comprehend, nor is

>it intended to explain, phenomina that deal with non-physical entities,

>such as demons. 


Well, gee, if the phenomenon is not something that science can deal with,

then the phenomenon has no physical manifestation.  In other words, if

you can see it, then science can deal with it.


>Scientists do not understand the soul, spirits, and

>demons and how they affect what appears to them to be the "real" world.


Not surprising, since the things you mention have no discernable physical

effects.  Physical effects like the wild-eyed stare of the psychopath.


> There is *much* more to the world, than just the physical plane.


Yeah?  Go ahead.  Prove it.


>Frank Lofaro

>Carnegie Mellon University

>fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (128.2.11.131)

>FLofaro+@cmu.edu (128.2.35.186)



Kevin Brown (kevin@taronga.taronga.com)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!cbfsb!cbnewsc!chapin

From: chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin )

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.050239.6239@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>

Date: 24 Feb 92 05:02:39 GMT

References: <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com>

Organization: Hickory Ridge - Lisle, IL

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Robert Sheaffer writes:

>The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on whoever makes extraordinary claims.


And just who gets to define what is ordinary and what is extraordinary?


Right.  If it agrees with the worldview of my group, it's ordinary.

And if not, that makes it extraordinary.  Can you say, "circular

argument"?


If it's unacceptable for a Christian to claim that the Bible is true

because it agrees with his worldview and all his group agrees, then 

it ain't acceptable for "skeptics" to try to pull the same trick.



-- 

     tom chapin                tjc@hrccb.att.com

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucselx!petunia!zeus!jgreen

From: jgreen@zeus.calpoly.edu (James T. Green)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.051417.149485@zeus.calpoly.edu>

Date: 24 Feb 92 05:14:17 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>

Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

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Once the Mars Observer gets to Mars, it should take a series of

photos of the "face" from several angles and sun angles 

so we can settle once and for all if it really is a boring

rock...or an interesting one.


Whatever it looks like, I'd say the Mars face is as natural as

the "Man" in the moon.


/~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@eros.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\ 

|                                                               |

|    Slogans of two generations:  1972:  Question Authority!    |

|                                 1992:  Why Ask Why?           |

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!blaze.cs.jhu.edu!biffvm!callahan

From: callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.052138.6517@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>

Date: 24 Feb 92 05:21:38 GMT

References: <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Feb24.050239.6239@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>

Sender: news@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Usenet news system)

Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD

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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20934 sci.space:26947 alt.paranormal:4473 alt.alien.visitors:4627


chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin ) writes:


>And just who gets to define what is ordinary and what is extraordinary?


I do.  But it's more fun to leave everyone else guessing.


By the way, people with acne really are Martians.  


--

Paul Callahan

callahan@BIFFVM.cs.jhu.edu

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews

From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Gateway Test

Message-ID: <111909.29A8D6C9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 24 Feb 92 01:47:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ

Lines: 13



Hi everybody.  Could a few of you respond to this test?


I'm wondering if my gateway is actually letting anything out of here...


Thanks,

  Clark



--  

Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!blaze.cs.jhu.edu!gauss!wilson

From: wilson@gauss.cs.jhu.edu (Dwight Wilson)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.070247.7936@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>

Date: 24 Feb 92 07:02:47 GMT

References: <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Feb24.050239.6239@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> <1992Feb24.052138.6517@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>

Sender: news@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Usenet news system)

Organization: The Johns Hopkins University CS Department

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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20939 sci.space:26954 alt.paranormal:4475 alt.alien.visitors:4629


In article <1992Feb24.052138.6517@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan) writes:

>chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin ) writes:

>

>>And just who gets to define what is ordinary and what is extraordinary?

>

>I do.  But it's more fun to leave everyone else guessing.

>

>By the way, people with acne really are Martians.  

>


And we want your women.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440

From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Another Elvis Sighting

Message-ID: <1992Feb23.201056.29042@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>

Date: 23 Feb 92 20:10:56 GMT

Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu

Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)

Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)

Lines: 28

Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu



While working routine police patrol we had a call of a large fat man with

side-burns trying to steal big and fat clothes from a local store while

eating a pizza in one hand and running out of the store with garments in

the other hand.


The description was as follows:


Rather large, fat man, with greying side-burns and white sequined body suit

singing "Jailhouse Rock" as he fled the store.  As he made his way through

the exit, an eye witness heard and saw him turn to a store clerk and say,

"Thank you very much" - in Elvis lingo.


The clerk quickly identified this person as an aging Elvis who could still

rattle off a good rendition of the above listed song.


Police did a perimeter containment procedure but fat Elvis fled through the

defenses.


After careful examination, the police have learned that Elvis had been 

working and hanging out at a local burger joint as a senior citizen trying

to attain the rank of burger manager.


More Elvis info to follow as soon as the report, fingerprints, and in-store

camera footage are developed and processed.


I think we got him this time boys!!!

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440

From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Under law, can you indict an alien for rape?

Message-ID: <1992Feb23.201804.29490@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>

Date: 23 Feb 92 20:18:04 GMT

Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu

Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)

Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)

Lines: 13

Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu



Let's just say that you are out minding your own business listing to

Led Zeppelin on the CD player in your car when you see a big blue flash

of light and all systems go dead except what the aliens are interested

in - your peter.


You get out and are floated into a craft when you are assaulted - sexu-

ally by a female from the planet Vulva.  She is having her way with you

several times and you now want to file charges.  Can you do so under

present law?  Is there recourse against illegal and/or alien intercourse?

Will the members of present day women advocacy groups side with aliens?

Will George Bush have to change his last name?  

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news

From: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett)

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <kqh968INNo3r@phad.hsc.usc.edu>

Date: 24 Feb 92 07:54:48 GMT

References: <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu> <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> <1992Feb24.044050.943@menudo.uh.edu>

Sender: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett)

Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA

Lines: 15

Xref: ns-mx sci.space:26955 alt.paranormal:4476 alt.alien.visitors:4632 sci.skeptic:20944

NNTP-Posting-Host: phad.hsc.usc.edu


In article <1992Feb24.044050.943@menudo.uh.edu> kevin@taronga.taronga.com (Kevin Brown) writes:

>In article <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> Frank T Lofaro <fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>>From alt.paranormal (USENET): 20-Feb-92 Re: Dreamland Gerry

>>Roston@cs.cmu.edu (919)


[ Petty bickering removed ]


Please stop cross-posting your flames to aav...  this conversation belongs in sci.skeptic, alt.flames, alt.petty.bickering,

or some other more appropriate place.  If I feel like reading your argument, I'll look over there..


-- 

+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------

| dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu  | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed,

|   Just my opinions!     | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! - #6, The Prisoner

+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440

From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <1992Feb23.202232.29862@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>

Date: 23 Feb 92 20:22:32 GMT

References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu

Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)

Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)

Lines: 55

Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu



In a previous article, bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) says:


>     Hello from the world of the wierd and strange.  This is Gary 

>Stollman, back from the Twilight Zone once again to give you an 

>idea of what has been going on lately in MY world.  

>

>     It seems that I have been responsible for bringing Jesus back 

>to Earth, and have been through so much in the past month or two

>it would take (practically) a lifetime to tell it all!  

>

>     What I can tell you is that my family and friends are still 

>being exchanged by demons or aliens or whatever.  My mom had a 

>stroke, and is here now in our apartment in LA, trying to 

>recuperate from the paralysis which has left her immobile.  The 

>two "nurses" treating her are demon clones who have taken the 

>place of the real people, and they keep switching my real mom back 

>and forth with the fake one, whom they serve.  My father is also 

>being switched with a fake clone constantly.  As have been my two 

>sisters and my other relatives and friends.  These things are 

>demonic in nature, and I have asked God for help, and he has 

>answered my pleas!

>

>     In the past few weeks, I have been transported by God to the 

>parallel dimension, where these beings come from, and back again.  

>The end result of this is that I have been responsible for the 

>start of the Second Coming of Christ.  Jesus is here now, and he 

>is going to take care of things in a hurry!  I have had the power 

>of God at my fingertips, as apparently I was the "Number 9" spoken 

>about in the musicians records, like the Beatles.  I have been 

>able to move through dimensions like through air, and I have 

>helped God to stop these things from taking us over.  There is 

>little more to say now, except tell everyone you know to pray, 

>long and hard!  It will help.  

>

>     These things have taken over all the hospitals and so forth 

>in LA, and the phone systems around the country.  They have a base 

>somewhere where they are holding the REAL people they have cloned.  

>If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely!  It is time to 

>stand up and be counted as human beings, not some kind of play-

>things.  This is Gary Stollman, signing off from LA, California, 

>USA.  

>

>

>

>


Gary, you deserve to live in L.A.  Your a natural.  


Also, if you send me $4995, I'll take care of all of your problems, and

half of the debt that I owe.  But, we'll both be happy!!!


Gary, get a life, remember to put a condom on that rectal thermometer

while the nurse ponders why you don't have butt hair!!!

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440

From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Isn't it interesting?

Message-ID: <1992Feb23.202409.223@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>

Date: 23 Feb 92 20:24:09 GMT

Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu

Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)

Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)

Lines: 8

Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu



Isn't it interesting that Graceland and Dreamland have two things in 

common:


# 1 - Both end in land


# 2 - Both have probably had Elvis over for dinner

Path: ns-mx!uunet!seismo!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua

From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

Date: 24 Feb 92 14:33:07 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> <1992Feb24.051417.149485@zeus.calpoly.edu>

Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!

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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4635 sci.space:26956 sci.skeptic:20946 alt.paranormal:4479


jgreen@zeus.calpoly.edu (James T. Green) writes:


|>Once the Mars Observer gets to Mars, it should take a series of

|>photos of the "face" from several angles and sun angles 

|>so we can settle once and for all if it really is a boring

|>rock...or an interesting one.


|>Whatever it looks like, I'd say the Mars face is as natural as

|>the "Man" in the moon.


what odds would you give?


josh

Path: ns-mx!uunet!boulder!ucsu!horton.Colorado.EDU!tarrall

From: tarrall@horton.Colorado.EDU (The Admiral, actually)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.122104.13055@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>

Date: 24 Feb 92 12:21:04 GMT

References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com> <1992Feb21.145353.24991@tellab5.tellabs.com>

Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System)

Organization: _USS Christopher Pike_, NCC-1779-A

Lines: 22

Nntp-Posting-Host: horton.colorado.edu


In article <1992Feb21.145353.24991@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) writes:

|In article <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:

|

|>> If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely!  It is time to 

|>

|>I watch CNN alot...alot...alot..."`)twassle ummph, and I haven't

|>noticed anything unusual. What is it we should look for?

|

|They screwed up the Lynn Russell clone's hair color.  And I mean

|BIGTIME.


Hmm.  I wondered what was wrong with Hannah Storm.  I figured that

either she'd changed her make-up style or that she's about 2-3 months

pregnant.  Silly me.


I guess Bernie's clone injured his wrist in a tussle then?


-- 

-- The Admiral          Email address:  tarrall@horton.colorado.edu

---------------------------- ghewmey Daghaj SoH ---------------------------

|  What I want to see in the paper:  "Rockies sign Puckett and Sandberg"  |

|  --------------------> HOW ABOUT THOSE TWINS???? <--------------------  |

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part1

Keywords: Review Footage

Message-ID: <286@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 23 Feb 92 21:27:57 GMT

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 58



My first post to a.a.s. I would like to give a short review on

the Video-Photo-Document Package that I bought back in 1987. It came

from Book Brokers in Orlando, Fla. I don't know if there was a review

on this information yet, if so I would like a copy of it.i


FIRST: The Movie Footage


This is what the advertisement said:


Full Color and Sound. SEE and HEAR this amazing video. Unpre-

cedented in content. Shown on television in Japan to millions of people,

as a NEWS SPECIAL. Experience the Japanese film crew's unbridled excitement

as they view and video tape the U.F.O!


SEE and HEAR of the many discoveries that were found during the 

super slow motion testing and film analysis! Hear what the experts have to

say about this film.


See dematerialization and rematerialization of the U.F.O. See the

strange light shift that occurs during the tranformation! See a UFO as big

as a HOUSE hovering above a well traveled hightway! Hear the sound of this

UFP as it passes overhead.


People in the Japanese Government call this footage "CONCLUSIVE

PROOF", and "the best photographic evidence to date!" Now, see if for

yourself, with your own eyes. YOU BE THE JUDGE!!


My (Ok, I'll be the JUDGE :-) REVIEW:


The movie footage was on CHEAP T-120 VHS tape, very low quality

so I had to watch the footage thru the `snow' made by the recording.

It was YES YOU GUEST RIGHT a japanese makeover of `Billy Maiers' Beam

Ships that he took on 8mm film. They videotaped Billies film and ran

it thru a slo-mo machine. Also they put it thru video enhanced zooms of

the UFO's. The film crew gave their best shot to debunk the film and

gave it a passing grade. It was done rather well in my opinion, too bad

the tape was such a low quality, the footage would have been much better.

They ruled out trick photography because of the more then 1/120 second

frame speed of the dematerialization and rematerialization. It couldn't

be done so that part was true. They ruled out the saucer on a string by

the way the ships were flying from left to right and back again without

any error in the starting and stopping. Also the camera never moved and

there was always a reference in the camera. One shot was when a beam

ship was flying circles around a big Evergreen Tree to prove it wasn't

a model. The tree moved from the force of the ship back and forth. It

died within 6 to 12 months.



-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####Amateur Radio Packet: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.PA.USA.NOAM####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!mccuts!zzassgl

From: zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff Lane)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas

Keywords: Open-minded skepticism

Message-ID: <4451@mccuts.uts.mcc.ac.uk>

Date: 21 Feb 92 13:39:04 GMT

References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu>

Organization: Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, England.

Lines: 8

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As someone else has said - If you do manage to come up with a wonderful new

idea you would be trampled in the rush of others claiming that they thought

of it first.


-- 

Geoff. Lane.                                  Janet: zzassgl@uk.ac.mcc.uts

UTS Sys Admin, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Rd, Manchester, M13 9PL

Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!hollie.rdg.dec.com!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson

From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <5700@shodha.enet.dec.com>

Date: 24 Feb 92 13:58:35 GMT

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In article <1992Feb20.183623.23228@mprgate.mpr.ca>, spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes...


>Take a close look at the face on Mars...

>It is a cyberman!



        Looks more like... like ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH


        TED KENNEDY!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH



        Steve Food_for_the_Grays

Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!hollie.rdg.dec.com!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson

From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <5701@shodha.enet.dec.com>

Date: 24 Feb 92 14:04:11 GMT

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In article <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes...

>     Hello from the world of the wierd and strange.  This is Gary 

>Stollman, back from the Twilight Zone once again to give you an 

>idea of what has been going on lately in MY world.  


        The FRAUD returnith.



        Steve Food_for_the_Grays

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb

From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.151952.23399@tcom.stc.co.uk>

Date: 24 Feb 92 15:19:52 GMT

References: <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu> <1992Feb21.174622.14330@infonode.ingr.com> <schumach.698706566@convex.convex.com>

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In article <schumach.698706566@convex.convex.com> schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:

>

>Yes, Newton was a genius, but he was not infallible. Some of his

>views were completely wrong (such as those that led him to write

>tens of thousands of words on alchemy as a science)...


When Newton was criticized by a fellow scientist for his interest in astrology

(or else alchemy - I'm not sure which) his reply was something like as follows:


"I, Sir, have studied the subject. You have not.".


It still holds, Richard.


Pat

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!transfer!lectroid!sw.stratus.com!tarl

From: tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?

Keywords: Open-minded skepticism

Message-ID: <11158@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>

Date: 21 Feb 92 03:29:42 GMT

References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com>

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In article <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

> [ Skepticism about devils ]

> (WARNING: I just can't take it anymore - it's been building for a long time -

> this was the straw that broke the camels back!  I got to get on my soapbox and

> get it off my chest.)

> The rest of us, including me, should maintain a healthy, not an unhealthy

> skepticism about alternative scientific theories.

> [...healthy vs unhealthy skepticism...]

> And why do I say this?  Well, it's pretty obvious from reading many postings

> on Usenet that many (but not all) scientists and engineers are fairly

> intolerant (read:  hostile) of ideas and theories that run counter to what

> they were taught and now believe.


There is a reason for this hostility. The random theories presented are

frequently supplied by someone who doesn't know what he is talking about,

and the hostile person will sometimes know more than a little about the

subject being discussed. It can be very frustrating to deal with someone

who claims to be able to invalidate centuries of work with a grandiose idea,

and hasn't bothered to read as much as an elementary text in the subject

being discussed.


Ideas are a dime a dozen. Crackpots produce ideas by the gross tonne.

Science, and indeed, knowledge itself, is not ideas. It is validated

facts and mathematical relationships between cause and effect allowing

accurate predictions to be generated.


Anything less is simply useful for fertilizing petunias. Indistinguishable

from what comes out of the south end of a north-bound steer.


When someone has a fantastic idea about the structure of the universe,

he/she/it should spend some time to determine whether this new idea

violates any of the existing knowledge our society has built up in the

past several centuries. If it does, perhaps what it violates should be

re-examined; but until that happens, the new idea is useless. Note that

re-examined means re-measuring whatever result you don't like; if said

re-examination produces the same result, your idea has already failed.


Presuming the new idea doesn't violate any existing knowledge (this will

probably take several years to determine); Differences between what the

new idea predicts and what the standard model (of whatever you are

replacing) predicts should be determined. These will probably be tiny

effects that will be difficult to observe - otherwise we would have seen

them before. Then you should design and execute an experiment which

tests the realms where the two models differ. This should take you

several more years. At this point, you can publish.


So much for what you should do; This group will never be used in that

context. This group is for people arrogant enough to believe that they

can, without detailed knowledge of a subject, use sheer inspiration to

out-do everyone who came before them, who actually bothered to understand

what they were dealing with. This group is for conspiracy theorists who

believe that studying existing science will "pollute" them and destroy

their inspiration. This group is for people who believe in fairies and

divine inspiration being supreme over observation, math and hard work.


Does that sound hostile? It should.


Now, if you want to discuss new theories, discuss:

   a) The solar neutrino problem. There was a recent paper addressing

      this that hasn't made it out to the general press yet. What does

      it say, and what are it's potential flaws?

   b) Supernova mechanics. There are some known problems with the existing

      supernova model, which were brought to light by Sanduleak -69.202

   c) Developments in merging quantum mechanics with gravity; There have

      been attempts, what have they involved, and what are their flaws?

      Which changes have recently cropped up?

   d) Cosmology; big-bang vs cyclic vs other; What evidence points to

      which theories, what flaws do they have. What work has been done

      in getting a big-bang to produce a non-isotropic universe?


(my interest in astronomy is showing).


   e) High-temeperature superconductivity in doped CuO ceramics. Changes

      to the BCS theory to accomodate these superconductors - news about

      work to determine if phonons are involved in these superconductors.


If some of the potential changes or new theories are your own, so much the

better. But if you have a theory on supernovas and don't know what the

Chandrasekhar limit is, expect to get hammered.

-- 

         Tarl Neustaedter tarl@sw.stratus.com

         Marlboro, Mass. Stratus Computer

Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: UFO Video-Photo-Documents Part3

Keywords: Review Documents

Message-ID: <288@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 23 Feb 92 22:30:44 GMT

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 26



HoHummm! With the package came a bunch of bad photocopies of

declassified documents of all kinds of UFO trivia. Plus a reproduction

of a Photograph, allegely showing a humaniod alien body preserved in a

transparent viewing case, and other information from the UFO CRASH AT

AZTEC.


Etc etc etc....

So...  Anybody seen these documents? They look pretty ratty,

if I feel like it I'll weed thru it and see if anything is

worth typing up. I just found this folder of all the UFO

goodies that I had filed away since I got it back in 1987.

So I decided to bring them up on a.a.v. More Fun then Humans

are allowed.....




-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####Amateur Radio Packet: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.PA.USA.NOAM####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part2

Keywords: Review Photo

Message-ID: <287@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 23 Feb 92 22:17:39 GMT

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 110



My Review on the Satellite Photograph of a UFO.


First the Advertisement:


A first time ever SATELLITE PHOTOGRAPH OF A U.F.O. with

documented authentication!


This photograph was taken by a weather satellite, making it the

only OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT satellite photo ever released of a U.F.O! People

in the U.S. government call this photograph "IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE THAT

U.F.O's EXIST!!"


See the U.F.O as being V-shaped in the front and rectangular in

the rear, with a port vision, and four contrails. See the U.F.O flying

at 5000 miles per hour, while climbing out of the atmosphere. The Earth

is viewed in the background, documenting its presence!


THIS IS CONCLUSIVE PROOF THAT U.F.O'S EXIST!!


The satellite photo will cone to you, complete with one glossy

size 8"x10" color picture of the U.F.O., and all supporting AUTHENTICATED

DOCUMENTS.


DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARENTEE, IF NOT AS ADVERTISED HEREIN!!


My Review Comment:


SO!!! HAHAHAHA..... Well I did get a glossy 8"x10" picture of

a flying `Baseball HomeBase Plate' :-) There wasn't much color in the

color picture mostly some grayscale `blue-white'. I personnally don't

know what it is and to me it might just might be something so...

here is what the AUTHENTICATED DOCUMENTS say :-). 


---------------------------STARTING DOCS-----------------------------

Mid-America Remote sensing Center

Murray State Univ, Murray, KY

Oct 31, 1985


To Whom It May Concern:


The image in question appears to be the output of a satellite

remote sensing device. To the best of my knowledge the information

depicted on the image in question is authentic.


Thomas C. Kind, PhD.

Professor

Dept. of Geosciences


#2


To Whom It May Concern:


On the eveing of Oct 30, 1985, I examined an electronic negative image

which appears to be a genuine, untampered, unretouched image.


Stephen J Robertson

Owner, Robertson's Creative Photography


#3


Southeast Missouri State Univ.

Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Friday, Nov 1, 1985


To Whom It May Concern:


I am Professor of Physics (highest rank) at Southeast Missouri

State Univ. hold tenure, and served as chairman of the department of 

physics for nearly twenty years. I have not served as chairman for about

three years.

I have held several offices in state science organizations,

including the office of President of the Missouri Academy of Science and

President of the American Association of Physics Teachers, Missouri Section.


Dr Harley D. Rutledge


(Notice the above person never mentions the Photograph :-)


#4


Southeast Missouri State Univ.

Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Nov 1, 1985


To whom it may concern:


I have examined the imagery of concern to Dr. Rutledge.

The background terrain appears to match a portion of irregular

coastline and associated islands centered approximately 40 kilometers

southwest of Vladivostok, U.S.S.R., in the vicinity of latitude 43deg

N; longitude 331deg E.


?. Ray Knox

Professor of Geology


==============================EOT DOCS===============================





-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####Amateur Radio Packet: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.PA.USA.NOAM####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!ncifcrf!fcs260c2!toms

From: toms@fcs260c2.ncifcrf.gov (Tom Schneider)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas

Keywords: Open-minded skepticism

Message-ID: <2807@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>

Date: 24 Feb 92 16:55:22 GMT

References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu> <4451@mccuts.uts.mcc.ac.uk>

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Four stages of acceptance: (J.B.S. Haldane, Journal of Genetics #58, 1963)

i) this is worthless nonsense;

ii) this is an interesting, but perverse, point of view;

iii) this is true, but quite unimportant;

iv) I always said so.


I haven't been able to find the original reference, unfortunately.  Does

anybody have access to the original journal to locate the exact pages?


  Tom Schneider

  National Cancer Institute

  Laboratory of Mathematical Biology

  Frederick, Maryland  21702-1201

  toms@ncifcrf.gov

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!helios!house

From: house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?

Keywords: Open-minded skepticism

Message-ID: <house.698888095@helios>

Date: 23 Feb 92 23:34:55 GMT

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noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:


>Of course, I demand to be shown substantiating evidence and arguments, and the

>burden of proof is on the presenter;  but I will give a *non-hostile*, even a

>friendly, forum to anyone who puts forth theories and conjectures that run

>counter to present-day thinking, no matter how bizarre.  Only by fostering

>such an open climate can we maximize the creativity of our scientists and

>scholars, and to advance scientific understanding;  a hostile climate to new

>ideas will only stifle many (and fortunately not all) from working on and

>presenting such new conjectures, ideas and theories, and thus stifle scientific

>understanding itself.


I have noticed intolerance to unusual ideas also.  I heartily second all

your comments above.


--


Ron House.                 USQ

(house@helios.usq.edu.au)  Toowoomba, Australia.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ieunet!tcdcs!unix1.tcd.ie!malloyd

From: malloyd@unix1.tcd.ie (ZAPHOD BEEBLEBROX II)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Philedelphia Experiment

Summary: pex

Keywords: ph

Message-ID: <malloyd.698928794@unix1.tcd.ie>

Date: 24 Feb 92 10:53:14 GMT

Sender: usenet@cs.tcd.ie (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie)

Organization: Trinity College, Dublin

Lines: 3

Nntp-Posting-Host: unix1.tcd.ie


I need information about the Philadelphia Experiment for a book that I'm

writing.Please mail me at malloyd.698928794@unix1.tcd.ie 

      Thanks in advance   ..ZBII

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham

From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.183358.10478@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

Date: 24 Feb 92 19:20:35 GMT

References: <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com> <1992Feb22.022929.29031@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <mvhh0-ppayner@netcom.com>

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In article <mvhh0-ppayner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...

>In article <1992Feb22.022929.29031@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>Let's stop playing with words and address the issue, ok?

>As above, lets do. But I would like to point out that one can tell the exact

>truth, and be 100% wrong. But I would prefer that we refer to "scientific

>truths" as established facts or something similiar.


Of course.


>>And are all (in fact most) _sources_ of sighting reports "questionable"?

>How many UFO photo's have turned up being faked? It was once a quick was to

>get publicity. This is a fact easily established by a trip to the library.

>Do you say this is not true?


I agree.  But, would you really accept photographs as valid scientific

"evidence"?  If not, then faked photos are irrelevant.


>>you disagree and what would change your mind.  Remember that I am

>>referring to what I consider the undeniable existance of the _phenomenon_,

>>NOT a particular object.

>Are you referring to the UFO's, or to the observations of UFO's as the

>phenomena, or both?


Both.


>Threads drift, and this is neither right or wrong. But to ignore what

>others say while complaining that others are not responding to what

>you said (and this happens all too often) is not the basis of a

>reasonable discussion. I was generalizing here, please do not read the

>"you" above as referring to yourself. But specifically, you have done

>some of this.


That's only because too often, the discussion becomes tangential and the

original issue is lost in the noise.


>>Can you ask this again?  I don't understand the above (it's garbled).

>>

>>Sorry.

>Is the UFO phenomena a phenomena requiring scientific study, or psychological 

>study?


You mean, there's a difference?!!! :-)


>I did, it would save much time if we would get to the point rather that

>bickering about who said what. Are the investigation you refer to valid

>(in a scientific sense) or not?


Agreed.  I think they are "valid".


>>Soil samples were submitted to 3 (if I recall) laboratories, went through

>>various tests, and all three reports were in agreement.

>What did they agree on?


Oops!  I forgot to say.  I'll let you know when I get to my references.


>>But that's my point.  What does any conspiracies have to do with this

>>discussion?  I haven't implied any, have I?

>I think that they are _part_ of the phenomena. 


No.  I think they are symptoms, but not an intrinsic part of the phenomena.


>>However, don't you find it ironic that we would be spending millions

>>looking for something light years away that we have yet to sense,

>>let alone have any evidence for, and yet, right here at home we have

>>thousands of reports of unidentified objects annually, which most

>>people naturally (but perhaps mistakenly) attribute to little green

                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>men, and yet, we don't pay attention?

>Not necessarily, I find it hard to believe that they will not make many

>useful observations, and that there will not be some benefit. I just doubt 

>that they will find what they are looking for.

>>We search for ETI elsewhere with little probability of success, yet

>>ignore the possibility of better success right here at home.

>Again, you equate UFO with ETI. This time directly. And yet you take

>me to task for bring up aliens? This confuses me a great deal.


No.  I do not make that equation.  Read my statement above, again.  My 

point is that mainstream science makes the equation in order to conveniently

set study of the phenomenon aside.  Yet, when faced with the question of

ETI, they will conveniently and without much yelling, carry SETI.


If I appear to have made the equation of UFO=ETI, I didn't intend to.


Still confused?


>>Who said it does?  Not me.  I didn't mean to imply that.  All I will

>>assert is that the onus of further serious study rests with those 

>>most qualified to do so.  That is known as responsibility.

>I do not see that this follows at all. The onus of proof lies upon those

>making the claims requiring proof. Regardless if there are those better

>qualified or not, that is a non-sequitor.


Why?  If I claim that I have gangrene in my foot, don't you think it's

reasonable to get a more qualified person (a medical doctor) to examine

the foot before I personally choose to amputate?


>>That is why I made an earlier remark about forensic science.  It _is_

>>a science, you know.  It's sole purpose is to _study_ any available

>>evidence (usually in the form of traces), and come to some sort of

>>conclusion.

>Forensic science deals with evidence, not observations. It will be useful

>only if there is some physical trace left behind. This is rarely the

>case as I understand it. But I think that assumptions build into the

>firensic sciences (like humans are involved using known materials and

>equipment) might render forensics less usable than you might think.

>If all they could do was say "event X happened, we do not know how it

>was done, and the observations cannot be reproduced by known tools and

>techniques", then no useful conclusions would be forthcoming.


True.


>Rich again, again!


Jim Graham - ditto, ditto.


        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-

                          Neither do they speak for me.

 ______________________________________________________________________

| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |

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Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!dougmc

From: dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Doug McLaren)

Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.is.too,alt.alien.visitors,alt.alien,alt.finals.suicide,alt.my.head.hurts,alt.noise,alt.sex.wizards,misc.test,alt.test

Subject: Laura's 22nd birthday !!!!

Summary: wish her a happy birthday !

Keywords: birthday 22 Mr. Winky

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.212619.4004@ctr.columbia.edu>

Date: 24 Feb 92 21:26:19 GMT

Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose)

Reply-To: dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Doug McLaren)

Followup-To: alt.party

Organization: Doug's House of Disco

Lines: 17

Approved: are you kidding ?

Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:50813 alt.alien.visitors:4649 alt.sex.wizards:266 misc.test:13392 alt.test:13432

Originator: dougmc@huey.cc.utexas.edu


Today (Feb 24) is Laura's (weezyl@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) 22nd birthday ...

Send her some mail and tell her to have a good one !

(and tell her she needs to have a party ! :)


Thanks ...   Doug


-- 

The opinions stated above are mine (and quite possibly mine alone!)  However,

 for a brief time, and a nominal fee, they can be yours too.  Operators are 

    standing by!   Call Now!  DouG McLareN, dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

"It's not totally empty ... there's a chiapet."

"That's not a chiapet ... that's last month's meatloaf !"


-- 

The opinions stated above are mine (and quite possibly mine alone!)  However,

 for a brief time, and a nominal fee, they can be yours too.  Operators are 

    standing by!   Call Now!  DouG McLareN, dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!Edit47.mndly.umn.edu!hamilton

From: hamilton@edit.mndly.umn.edu (MARGARET HAMILTON)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: test

Message-ID: <hamilton.1@edit.mndly.umn.edu>

Date: 24 Feb 92 22:08:25 GMT

Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration)

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Lines: 1

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this is a test. ignore it.

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From: SCHLEGEL@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Mark)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets (M.S.)

Message-ID: <1992Feb25.001012.4724@news.unomaha.edu>

Date: 25 Feb 92 00:10:12 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com> <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com> <1992Feb23.014702.24910@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)

Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

Lines: 51

In-Reply-To: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca's message of Sun, 23 Feb 1992 01: 47:02 GMT

X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11


In <1992Feb23.014702.24910@watdragon.waterloo.edu> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca writes:


> In article <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

> >jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

> >

> >> What is Earth's radio noise output like these days? Assuming no

> >>attempt on our part to be noticed by hypothetical ETIs, would it be 

> >>obvious to the ETIs why the sun (or a close companion to it) appeared

> >>to be a major radio source?

> > The big problem here is of course where to look...  Even FM

> >is a pretty large bandwidth to sample, and there isn't and logical reason

> >for ETs to start looking there (that I know of).  

> >

> A hstory question here: anyone know how much of the way we use

> radio (in terms of radio vs TV broadcasts, etc) is forced on us by 

> physics and how much was a 'fluke' product of early decisions in the 

> field (Like, for example, early radio stations using a range of frequencies,

> forcing later EMR  communications to use other frequencies)?

> James Nicoll


A lot of the way we use radio is dictated by physics, TV requires that much

more information be sent per second than radio (the picture needs lots of 

data).  Basically a large information rate requires a large bandwidth and

at low radio frequencies large bandwidth transmissions crowd the available

spectrum --this is why the gov't (FCC) allocates the higher frequency bands

to TV, radar, etc. and the lower bands to less information intensive use (like

shortwave amateurs).


But as far as the Earth's radio emission is concerned there is a more

interesting problem estimating the difficulty of aliens detecting us

or our detecting them--->  We've only used radio for maybe 80 years and TV/

radar for 45 years.  The Earth has only been emitting EM waves at large power 

levels for the last few decades of this period. But notice what we're doing

now -- we're replacing our old radio and TV antennas with cable TV, satellites,

and fiber optic cable which leak almost no detectable power to space.  So 

by about the year 2000 almost all information will go through optic fibers and

high bandwidth/high frequency comsats (at low power levels because of the

efficiency of modern amplifiers and antennas).  Earth may only be detectable

for this short half century window, if the ET's don't look soon they'll miss us.

If the ET's have a similar shift to low emission technology we'll never see them

unless they transmit signals to space on purpose.  


Mr. Donahue brought up the question of where should we look in the huge EM

band.  It may not be total guesswork because the ET's should be at least as

clever as us and we know that there frequencies where the interstellar medium

absorbs background radio noise, like the region around 1420 MHz.  This is one

of the places we would send messages so they might also.  


--- Mark ---- 

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289

From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Date: 25 Feb 92 00:33:24 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> <1992Feb24.051417.149485@zeus.calpoly.edu> <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4652 sci.space:26992 sci.skeptic:20970 alt.paranormal:4490


joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes:


>jgreen@zeus.calpoly.edu (James T. Green) writes:


>|>Once the Mars Observer gets to Mars, it should take a series of

>|>photos of the "face" from several angles and sun angles 

>|>so we can settle once and for all if it really is a boring

>|>rock...or an interesting one.


If  I recall correctly, MO will go into a roughly sun synchronus orbit.  It

may be able to take pictures from slightly different angles, but don't count 

on the sun angle being much different.


>|>Whatever it looks like, I'd say the Mars face is as natural as

>|>the "Man" in the moon.


>what odds would you give?


If I gambled, I'd say it was very likely.  I'm not a bookie, so I wouldn't 

know how to pick the numbers.

>josh

Josh Hopkins

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!iWarp.intel.com|inews!hopi!bhoughto

From: bhoughto@hopi.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?

Keywords: Open-minded skepticism

Message-ID: <9320@inews.intel.com>

Date: 24 Feb 92 23:49:28 GMT

References: <J23ggB3w164w@cellar.org> <1992Feb24.052333.6847@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>

Sender: news@inews.intel.com

Organization: Intel Corp, Chandler, AZ

Lines: 9

Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20971 sci.physics:17945 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1054 alt.alien.visitors:4653


I dunno about "less hostility;" but certainly less ignorant

hostility.


Just saying "that's stupid, go back in your hole and seal

the trap-door behind you!" is not science.


--Blair

  "It is, however, great fun

   when done correctly. :-)"

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen

From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: A perspective on the topic of "good" and "evil" extraterrestrials.

Summary: Nobody is coming to invade Earth except perhaps our own fears.

Keywords: 11:11

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.020157.12139@beaver.cs.washington.edu>

Date: 24 Feb 92 02:01:57 GMT

Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System)

Organization: University of Washington Computer Science

Lines: 198



     The subject of "good" vs. "bad" extraterrestrial civilizations

has come up often lately, and I felt I would share this information

with those who are interested in knowing the possibilities of our

interactions with other worlds. I took the excepts below from "Bashar:

Blueprint for Change - A Message from Our Future", by Darryl Anka and

Luana Ewing. The book is "channeled" from an extraterrestrial by the

name of Bashar, although don't let that label add to or take away from

the content of the message. Bashar comes from our "future", or rather

from a loving alien society that we will soon be very similar to. This

is a truly amazing book with all kinds of wisdom, hope, and accurate

information. There is lots more I can say from this source, but for

now, here is a question and answer session about the topic at hand:

(Loving thanks to you-know-who-you-are for loaning the book to me!)


--


Q:        What about a planet with a life system that has developed with a

     war-like mentality, one that can enter this part of our galaxy with

     intentions on conquering? Will that likely happen, Bashar?


     Understand that individuals with that intention do not really get

very far. The idea is also that your energy as a world now has changed

sufficiently so that even if there should be another civilization

close at hand with intention of conquering and dominating, they would

be hard pressed to even find you now. For your vibration is a little

bit too different from any society that might actually with to push

themselves into space with war-like intentions of coming here to take

over.

     Now, the idea is also that traveling in space is actually

traveling within. And true, space travel is not the idea of what your

technology is right now, where in a sense you are sliding around on

the *surface* of space. When you understand how to breach the barriers

of space and time itself, you will discover it requires a very highly

integrated attitude, and a highly integrated attitude makes it very

unlikely you will ever be of a war-like nature, and in fact you would

not get very far if you were. For even if you were to make the

attempt, you would most likely find yourselves dispersed at the other

end....

     The idea of war-like planets in conquering modes can and have

happened, but they are usually relegated to certain levels of

dimensionality. Many times that means they actually have to be in

physical proximity to each other, and in our perception, not on any

level is there a race of such a nature within hundreds of light years

of your world. For the idea is this: now that your vibration is

changing into a modality they would not even begin to be able to

understand, they probably would not find you even if they looked. So

in a sense, that makes *you* the most war-like planet around... and

*we* have no fear of you. Therefore, in actual fact, if there were

going to be any concern at all, it would probably be from our end, not

yours.


Q:        But aren't there wars between other planets?


     If we might draw an analogy to what many of you have assumed

*must* exist elsewhere in the universe, simply because it exists upon

your planet....

     In a sense, there are other places, and have been interactions

throughout the different galaxies, that might loosely amount to what

you call warfare. There have been many variations of this theme on

many different worlds from time to time. You are not unique in that.

But the idea many of you have perceived, which has to do with alien

consciousness that may have negative intentions toward other worlds:

this particular negative intention does not always manifest itself in

the absolute format you would recognize as warfare.

     For recognize, in many ways warfare is quite improbable in terms

of galactic and stellar distances. There is rarely any need for such

an idea, since there is always more than enough room for expansion,

and therefore more than enough room for different ideologies. Every

civilization is a different reality in many ways, and generally

speaking one reality is usually experienced only by one civilization

until they make agreements to share common frequencies, common wave

lengths between different worlds - which then allows them to interact

in various ways.

     But if they do not make that agreement, then chances are they

will rarely encounter other civilizations if they are not of a mind to

interact with those other civilizations in mutually beneficial ways...

unless they wish to lure themselves to civilizations that as a whole

are choosing to function as victims, and draw to themselves - out of

their fears, out of their doubts - the idea of a conquering

civilization. However, even this notion is usually not able to be

played out in your typical fashion of warfare and domination. For, as

we said earlier, the stellar distances make this very improbable.

     Do recognize also that although it may seem symbolically like

planets are being conquered, none can be conquered if they do not

vibrate to the idea that they *can* be. And thus you will find that

the so-called best safeguard to the idea is to simply know you are not

of that vibration, that idea. And they, not being of the same reality,

will never find you. If they should come to what represents - to them

- your planet, it will not - to them - seem to be at all inhabited.

     So the idea, more often than not, of what could be considered a

conquering race, and a conquered race - to use the terms loosely -

would be simply the willingness of the conquered to give up their

power completely to the conqueror, to allow their lives to be run by

someone else, and to have all their power removed and all the

responsibility for the creation of their lives taken from them. But

not taken without their consent, for it cannot happen without that

consent.

     Thus the type of warfare that has occurred in this sense has

simply been one of a people succumbing to an idea and allowing

themselves to fall in line, to fall under the domination and the

auspices of another civilization successfully using the idea of

seduction to lure that civilization under their banner. The

"conquering" civilization then is able to increase its numbers and

increase its strength very literally by talking the other civilization

into allowing themselves to be dominated. They can do this by taking

responsibility for their needs, by pretending to take care of those

needs, and by removing from them in the process all of their ability

to know and believe they can create their own lives as they choose

them to be.

     This is the type of warfare that is more common. Is is a mental idea,

a psychic idea, in that sense. But even that, in our experience, is a

relatively uncommon thing. For not *that* many civilizations we have

encountered are that willing to forget who and what they are to the

degree where they would attract such a liaison with another

civilization that would even *want* that type of dominion over other

worlds. Both of these ideas are relatively rare in our experience.

     All the ideas of what you now represent to be war-like

projections into space are, for the most part, in your long distant

past. Do understand something: though we are not saying the scenario

that has been painted in literal terms is actually literal, the idea

of your science fiction stories - particularly the one you call *Star

Wars* - did carry with it one of the strongest insights of all, and

that is that you were told it was a long time ago. For indeed it no

longer has anything really to do with your present. At least not, as

you say, in your neck of the woods! It is a representation of the old

cycle of negativity, and a connection to many other star systems

through which you have come. It was simply applied to a future format.


Q:        Bashar, my understanding is that some of those space beings, such

     as those connected to the dark side of Orion, are hostile to Earth and

     Earthlings.


     We will discuss this idea with you if you will first understand

that the idea of any consciousness which could be said to be

negatively oriented can only form connections with individuals who

believe that those supposedly negative individuals have the power to

force connections of that nature upon them. In other words, only your

fear and concern that they may have that type of power will actually

give them the power necessary to form a link with anyone in your

civilization. Otherwise just recognize that there are many so-called

negative individuals and negative consciousnesses in many other

worlds, just as there are many negatively oriented individuals on your

own planet.

     It does not mean that they must interact with you. And if you are

willing to be the vibration, the frequency, and the attitude of the

perspective of the reality you choose to be, then they will not be

able to intercept your reality. Recognize that the primary idea of

negativity is not specifically isolated to the constellation you refer

to as Orion; it does involve many other systems throughout the local

galaxy.

     As we have said, many of the individuals on your planet now are

literally reincarnated Orions, and they have formed a connection to

that origin point, so to speak, reincarnating upon Earth to allow

themselves to learn the balance point of the positive and negative

polarities so that they can create only positive manifestation in

their lives. They can switch themselves to a frequency that is out of

reach of the former negativity that was inherent in the original

parent systems of the Orion area.

     You will find that time and space being what they are, and all

things being simultaneous, some of these original Orion negative

consciousnesses still have the ability to be picked up on be whichever

individuals on your planet may still choose to function along the same

old style frequency - time and space not being a barrier to the idea

of telepathic contact on any level.

     However, it is also important to recognize that many of the

individuals of the Orion influence, or "persuasion," have been, and

are now, allowing themselves to crystallize into a very balanced idea

of polarity. In the original home systems that energy in turn has

allowed them to now be the creation and existence of light as well as

negativity.

     Therefore, it would be our advice and our suggestion to you that

you simply do not focus on the idea that there are negative beings who

exist in the universe - other than those who exist on your own planet

- that could perhaps interact with you against your will, and focus on

the reality you choose to be. Then, by the fact that you will be on a

different frequency, this will place you completely beyond the reach

of anyone who is not on the same loving frequency.


Q:        Well then, how do we stop wars and have a peaceful planet?


     Please understand that if you believe in peace, then you do not

have to hate war. YOU DO NOT GET PEACE BY HATING WAR; YOU GET PEACE BY

LOVING PEACE. Hate only reinforces the things you say you do not

prefer, because that's what you are focusing on. *Be* peace; *live*

peace. *Breathe* peace; *Share* peace. Love, unconditional love, will

transform your entire world in the twinkling of an eye. UNCONDITIONAL

love for all.


--


-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu     |

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |

-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -

|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2

From: press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <1992Feb25.044729.1040@cbnewsd.att.com>

Date: 25 Feb 92 04:47:29 GMT

References: <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu>

Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

Lines: 14


In article <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu>, dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett) writes:

> Isn't it amazing that UFO sightings really started [in the UFO sense] in the mid to late '40's?  Roughly 20 to 30

> years after most of the ground-breaking research into higher frequencies in radio.  And has increased stedily since


I used to be an avid UFO buff for at least 10 years straight('68-78')

approximately. I remember reading about sightings of dirigibles in the

mid to late 1800's before they were manufactured and used.

If this is accurate, they first appeared in modern times in the form

of airships or zeppelins. It wasn't until mid 1940'(?) they were sighted

as flying discs near Mt. Ranier in Washington state.

Any support?


barry olson

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!agate!stanford.edu!rock!taco!eos.ncsu.edu!rmaddy

From: rmaddy@eos.ncsu.edu (RICHARD M ADDY)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.brother-jed,alt.desert-shield.erotica,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.fishing,alt.tasteless,alt.true.crime

Subject: Happy Hunter

Message-ID: <1992Feb25.043942.16981@ncsu.edu>

Date: 25 Feb 92 04:39:42 GMT

Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)

Organization: North Carolina State University

Lines: 63

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4656 alt.brother-jed:952 alt.exploding.kibo:83 alt.fishing:3732 alt.tasteless:7938

To: ST1IK%UHUPVM1@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu


You've got to read this.  By the way, I don't quite have the hang

of this feature - you may get multiple copies.

In article <137762@becker.UUCP>, bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) writes:

Xref: taco alt.brother-jed:940 alt.fishing:4748 alt.tasteless:7857

alt.true.crime:49

Path:

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e!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!utzoo!censor!comspec!becker!bdb

From: bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker)

Newsgroups:

alt.alien.visitors,alt.brother-jed,alt.desert-shield.erotica,alt.explodi

ing.kibo,alt.fishing,alt.tasteless,alt.true.crime

Subject: boom

Message-ID: <137762@becker.UUCP>

Date: 21 Feb 92 18:06:20 GMT

Organization: G. T. S., Toronto, Ontario

Lines: 33



        DEAD HUNTERS GIVEN FINAL SHOTGUN BLAST

                   Associated Press



         DES MOINES, Iowa - The way Jay  Knudsen

      sees  it,  the ashes of dead hunters don't

      belong in urns  on  the  mantle.  So,  for

      about  the cost of a funeral and sometimes

      a lot less, he will take the ashes to  the

      sportsman's   favourite   marsh   or  bear

      country and blast them to smithereens.


         "We  can't  get  you  to  heaven,"   he

      advertises, "but we promise to land you in

      the happy hunting ground."


         A landscaper by trade, Mr. Knudsen  has

      an off-season service for the survivors of

      dedicated hunters.  He  loads  ashes  into

      shotgun  shells,  performs whatever ritual

      the family wishes and then blasts away.


         "This is not a morbid thing,  to  shoot

      ol' Joe down the barrel of a shotgun in an

      area he loved to hunt," Mr. Knudsen said.



-- 

  ,u, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ontario

a /i/ Internet: bdb@becker.gts.org, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu

 `\o\-e UUCP: ...!lsuc!becker!bdb

 _< /_ "Ceci n'est pas un \"" - Rene "Day" Taxi # 12 & 35


--

---------------------------------------------

Richard Addy

NCSU

rmaddy@eos.ncsu.edu


"One Objects! 

   One is miffed in the extreme!"

           - Eupathic Impulse

                  _Jack_the_Bodiless_

                      Julian May

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!newsroom.utas.edu.au!cam!esk!rhoge1

From: rhoge1@esk (Robert James Hoge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: TEST POST: Please Respond

Message-ID: <1992Feb25.044708.19813@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au>

Date: 25 Feb 92 04:47:08 GMT

Sender: news@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au

Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston

Lines: 14


References: <9202142126.AA27523@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> 

Sender:Kid 

Followup-To:Len 

Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston


Just a reply from your letter to see if there was anything to it first.

Australia - Reply "Kid" only!

    

C

C

C

 D

D

Uni od  Tasmania Launceston

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!stanford.edu!rock!taco!eos.ncsu.edu!rmaddy

From: rmaddy@eos.ncsu.edu (RICHARD M ADDY)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.brother-jed,alt.desert-shield.erotica,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.fishing,alt.tasteless,alt.true.crime

Subject: Re: Happy Hunter

Message-ID: <1992Feb25.045425.17681@ncsu.edu>

Date: 25 Feb 92 04:54:25 GMT

References: <1992Feb25.043942.16981@ncsu.edu>

Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)

Reply-To: rmaddy@eos.ncsu.edu (RICHARD M ADDY)

Organization: Project EOS - North Carolina State University

Lines: 13

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4658 alt.brother-jed:953 alt.exploding.kibo:84 alt.fishing:3733 alt.tasteless:7939


--

Sorry about that - I was trying to send the posting to another user.

And with my name plastered across the header! The Shame!

---------------------------------------------

Richard Addy

NCSU

rmaddy@eos.ncsu.edu


"One Objects! 

   One is miffed in the extreme!"

           - Eupathic Impulse

                  _Jack_the_Bodiless_

                      Julian May

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re:  This Whole Mars Face Off

Message-ID: <jms.07if@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 24 Feb 92 00:14:19 GMT

References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 30


In article <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca> roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr) writes:

>It is important to note that much the same was said of the Hubble Space Tele-

>scope prior to its launch.  Oh yes, they said, we'll be able to see planets

>orbiting distant stars - maybe even find evidence of extraterrestrial life!


Planets orbiting distant stars aren't evidence of extraterrestrial life.  I

don't know what you're talking about.


>But the equipment failed - just like the probe that located the Mars Face.


Phobos failed (and I know about the pictures and all that.)  But I think

the face was located by Viking, which (as far as I know) lived about as

long as it was expected to.  Not only that, but wasn't the face noticed

some time after the pictures were taken?  (Lots of pictures take a while to

look at.)


>And I wouldn't be too surprised if the marvellous Mars Observer inherits some

>strange post-launch "malfunction" just like many of its more recent

>predecessors.


While we're speculating, there was some speculation last year (I think)

that the Mars Observer had been secretly launched on one of the

DOD-dedicated space shuttle flights.  And then there's Cooper's story that

we've been to Mars in the 1950s.  (I'd like to see evidence of *that*!)


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space,sci.skeptic,sci.physics

Subject: Re:  Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!

Message-ID: <jms.07ih@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 24 Feb 92 00:28:34 GMT

References: <behse.698489924@tubue> <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk>

Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors, sci.skeptic

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 24

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4660 alt.paranormal:4492 sci.space:27008 sci.skeptic:20980 sci.physics:17957


In article <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk> cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk (Sunil Gupta) writes:

>well this is the reply from nasa (telnet  128.158.13.250)

>

>=======START=====MESSAGE FROM NASA======10-Feb-92==10:55:00

>The "face" on Mars is an interesting geological feature that resembles a face

>because of its structure and pattern of shadows.

>=======END=======MESSAGE FROM NASA=========================


While I'm generally skeptical about claims with so little evidence (like

the Face), I don't see how NASA could have the *definitive* answer without

getting up there and checking it out.


>its odd though Ive seen another mars "face" picture" but that in comaprison was

>smaller and much sharper. The image that was posted appears to be no only

>processed but touched up by hand.


I've seen one that was touched up to look like "Bob".  (It was smoking a

pipe, of course.)


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re:  mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <jms.07ij@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 24 Feb 92 00:34:21 GMT

References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <LJwegB1w164w@coert.uucp> <1992Feb20.183623.23228@mprgate.mpr.ca>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 17

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4661 sci.space:27009 sci.skeptic:20981 alt.paranormal:4493


In article <1992Feb20.183623.23228@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes:

>In article <LJwegB1w164w@coert.uucp>, doctor@coert.uucp (Daniel Klugh) writes:

>|> Maybe the Doctor Who story "Pyramids of Mars" wasn't a story at all.

>

>Take a close look at the face on Mars...

>

>It is a cyberman!


The thought had occurred to me.  As well as the logo of Mercury Records,

and the cover of the recent Elton John tribute album.  Which really goes to

show you how the mind works, while meaning absolutely nothing.


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re:  Crop Circles

Message-ID: <jms.07ip@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 24 Feb 92 00:39:15 GMT

References: <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> <2417@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.182031.9159@cs.cornell.edu> <1992Feb20.171357.14364@tcom.stc.co.uk>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 19


In article <1992Feb20.171357.14364@tcom.stc.co.uk> patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan) writes:

>       In Cambridgeshire, England, last year another "circle" of some

>mathematical interest appeared. It was roughly heart-shaped with circles of

>various sizes around it. In fact it was strikingly similar to a mandelbrot set,

>a complicated mathematical figure which can only be represented by a fractal.


I had heard that this was a hoax by some local students, but I don't know

if that story itself is true.  Anybody know for sure?


Also, while the Mandelbrot set itself is a fractal, a stylistic

approximation of it is not a fractal and requires no computation at all.

(Other than symmetry along one axis.)  It could have been produced by

humans as easily as any other geometric pattern with a little planning.


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re:  This Whole Mars Face Off

Message-ID: <jms.07ir@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 24 Feb 92 01:14:32 GMT

References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca> <1992Feb21.014725.17430@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb21.194854.22858@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 25


In article <1992Feb21.194854.22858@ccu.umanitoba.ca> roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr) writes:

>He's sort of "got me" here...  I'd _heard_ that the Mars Face was located

>by a probe that was sent to Mars by the United States to study the Martian

>moons.  Unfortunately, I heard this over a local radio broadcast some time

>ago and I haven't heard anything more since then.  Was the Mars Face first

>located by the Viking Probes?  If not, why didn't we hear about all the

>Mars Face just after the Vikings landed???


It takes time and people to sort through all the pictures.  (Nobody's going

to put face-recognition in the software of a planetary probe, after all).


The Russians did send two probes to Mars, years after the Vikings I think.

If I remember rightly, one died on the way and the other died under

circumstances which, if reports are correct, could be construed as odd.

(The probes were called Phobos, which is the name of one of the Martian

moons, and one was photographing one of the moons when it died.  But I

don't know if they were only going to look at the moons, or at Mars also.

And to add confusion, there was an old ('60s or '70s, I think) Russian

theory that the Martian moons were spacecraft.)


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re:  Something Wicked This Way Comes?

Message-ID: <jms.07it@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 24 Feb 92 01:29:43 GMT

References: <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <jms.07dr@vanth.UUCP> <26506@hoptoad.uucp>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 21


In article <26506@hoptoad.uucp> chroma@hoptoad.uucp (Steve Kudlak) writes:


>What I would be really interested in is a set of books that proport to

>go on in this sort of style, with "fictional newspaper reports" and

>"fictional government documents" and the like, or something that mixes

>fact and fiction for some effect like UFO ideas.


I haven't read any of them so I can't give you any personal opinions, but

"Majestic" by Whitley Strieber is based on the Roswell / MJ-12 scenario,

Sydney Sheldon's "The Doomsday Conspiracy" is fiction but has a UFO coverup

theme, and then there's a British book and TV show (movie?) called

"Alternative 3" that's *really* UFO-conspiracy oriented, to the extent that

there's been quite a bit of debate over whether it might actually be real.

And I almost forgot "Genesis" and its sequels by W. A. Harbinson,

which are in just as controversial a situation as "Alternative 3".


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re:  California CE-3's

Message-ID: <jms.07iv@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 24 Feb 92 01:32:33 GMT

References: <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 29


In article <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu> vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus) writes:

>In article <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:

>>Yesterday I saw an ABC news report on an anonymous family in California who

>>claim that they're visited by aliens every night.  The aliens probe them

>>with beams of light, sometimes right through the ceiling of the house while

>>the family is awake.  They made drawings of the ships and they look fairly

>

>   Couldn't be beams of light - ceilings tend to stop those.


You're right of course, but remember that a lot of UFO reports tend to have

paranormal elements.


>>complex, with rows of lights or jets on the bottom.  They also have

>>videotape of them, but the videotape just shows large, pale circular

>

>   No surprise here.  You would think with all the camcorders out

> these days, one person would be able to actually film a UFO without

> focusing problems.  Bullshit about aliens affecting electronics is

> a cop-out.


Just to keep the record straight, nobody claimed interference, at least not

as far as was mentioned.  I fully agree, as I said, that *whatever* it was

was severely out of focus.


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy

From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re:  California CE-3's

Message-ID: <p2khgyp@lynx.unm.edu>

Date: 25 Feb 92 08:00:13 GMT

References: <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu> <jms.07iv@vanth.UUCP>

Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Lines: 27


In article <jms.07iv@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:

>

>You're right of course, but remember that a lot of UFO reports tend to have

>paranormal elements.

>


    Yes, that way it makes it impossible to explain things.  


>

>Just to keep the record straight, nobody claimed interference, at least not

>as far as was mentioned.  I fully agree, as I said, that *whatever* it was

>was severely out of focus.

>

    I did not mean to imply that interference was caused in this case, but

it is an excuse used in the past.  You would think that if someone was

filming a potentially earth-shattering event, he would make sure the

focus was sharp.  The fact that it wasn't tells us something.






-- 

"You ask me if sex is one of the most   \\    //     Phred Platypus

  important things in life?  Absolutely. \\  //  Grammarian of Vengeance

  But the lack of it is even likelier     \\// [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ]

  to drive you nuts."  -- Harlan Ellison   \/       Vincent J. Murphy

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!umasp

From: UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU, , National Headquarters>

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <92055.232412UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>

Date: 25 Feb 92 04:24:12 GMT

References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Organization: University of Maine System

Lines: 40


In reference to the posting by one Gary Stollman, the Board of Directors

at Clones of America would like to respond by saying that we are not in

any way responsible for turning Gary's mother, Mrs. Stollman, into Jesus.

Further, rumors that we turned his father into a Can of Spam are simply

not true.  We, at Clones of America, strive to bring you the best clones

possible at reasonable prices.  Anyone dissatisfied with the results of

their clone, may request a full refund of the purchase price (less shipping).

Don't be misled by vicious lies and rumors about extra body parts and

incorrectly attached sex organs.  All such stories are merely attempts to

discredit us by our competition.  To the perveyors of such lies, we at

Clones of America say 'Go fuck yourself!', which, with a clone, is considered

technically possible.  We want the people of this planet to be happy with

their clones...to derive the maximum benefit from them.  Feel free to call

us anytime to discuss cloning options and to receive a free price list.

Our number is 1-800-4CLONES.  Thank you for your attention.  Before leaving,

however, we would like to say one last thing to Gary Stollman:


It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.

We've cloned everyone that we possibly could,

Are you next?

Could you be next?


We've cloned all your neighbors and relatives too,

and now we're out looking for somebody new,

Are you next?

Could you be next?


We have always wanted to clone a wacko,

just like you.

To see you go mad, like your mom and dad,

and your neighbors too.


So, lets make the most of this beautiful day,

we brought our new clone gun, so 'Come out and play!'


Think about it, it won't hurt a bit,

Won't you be our victim.


Won't you please, won't you please,

please won't you be our victim.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring

From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb25.113458.22064@rhrk.uni-kl.de>

Date: 25 Feb 92 11:34:58 GMT

References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>

Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de

Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany

Lines: 19

Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4494 alt.alien.visitors:4668 sci.skeptic:20991


In article <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>, Frank T Lofaro <fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> That is a somewhat hollow argument. You are comparing the statement

>being tested to something that is obviously ridiculous and then using

>that as the basis for attacking the original statement. While it would

>be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by

>demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many

>of them are.


You fail to see that there are different standards of ridiculosity(?).

Your demons are "obviously ridiculous" to me, like Gerry's Martians

with acne are to you.  Gerry uses a statement that is obviously

ridiculous to *everyone* (I hope) to demonstrate you the feeling

other people have when you talk of demons (my interpretation).


-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----

Because the hypothesized anomalous effect is not easily accommo-

dated within the prevailing scientific world-view, it is parti-

cularly important to assess the trustworthiness of each reviewed

experiment.  -  Radin and Nelson

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!yfn.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!dam137

From: DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>

Date: 25 Feb 92 16:17:21 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

 <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu>

 <1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>

 <1992Feb24.051417.149485@zeus.calpoly.edu>

 <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

 <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiu

Organization: Penn State University

Lines: 23

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4669 sci.space:27022 sci.skeptic:21001 alt.paranormal:4496


In article <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

(Josh 'K' Hopkins) says:

>

>>|>Whatever it looks like, I'd say the Mars face is as natural as

>>|>the "Man" in the moon.

>

>>what odds would you give?

>

>If I gambled, I'd say it was very likely.  I'm not a bookie, so I wouldn't

>know how to pick the numbers.

>>josh

>                Josh Hopkins

>


We should also remember that faces in rocks also occur on the Earth without

the help of intelligence.  I believe the place is called "The Man In The

Mountain" in New Hampshire.  Its a natural rock outcrop that looks very

like an old man's face...


Dave

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you remove the impossible, whatever's left, no matter how improbable,

   is the answer...                           --Sir Arthur C. Doyle

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!yfn.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!dam137

From: DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets (M.S.)

Message-ID: <92056.114708DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>

Date: 25 Feb 92 16:47:08 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

 <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com>

 <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

 <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com>

 <1992Feb23.014702.24910@watdragon.waterloo.edu>

 <1992Feb25.001012.4724@news.unomaha.

Organization: Penn State University

Lines: 10


Just a side note...just recently, I remember seeing a list of the closest and

most visible stars to earth and the probability calculations worked out as to

which of them were most likely to contain planets, which would have class M

(earth-like) planets, and some other planetary types, and which would be the

best probable planets for life "as we know it" to exist...


If anyone knows where I can get a copy of this list, could they please send it

my way via E-Mail (no need to waste bandwidth...).


Dave

Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: UFO Books (Was:Re:  Something Wicked This Way Comes?)

Summary: Anybody read these books?

Keywords: Books Books more Books

Message-ID: <289@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 25 Feb 92 19:11:44 GMT

References: <jms.07dr@vanth.UUCP> <26506@hoptoad.uucp> <jms.07it@vanth.UUCP>

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 55


In article <jms.07it@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:

[Steve Kudlak stuff was here]

>

>I haven't read any of them so I can't give you any personal opinions, but

>"Majestic" by Whitley Strieber is based on the Roswell / MJ-12 scenario,

>Sydney Sheldon's "The Doomsday Conspiracy" is fiction but has a UFO coverup

>theme, and then there's a British book and TV show (movie?) called

>"Alternative 3" that's *really* UFO-conspiracy oriented, to the extent that

>there's been quite a bit of debate over whether it might actually be real.

>And I almost forgot "Genesis" and its sequels by W. A. Harbinson,

>which are in just as controversial a situation as "Alternative 3".


People that are into books probably are reading this threads so

here it goes. Anybody read the following UFO Books and give an opinion?


`UFP Crash at Aztec' -A well kept secret

By Willian S. Steinman & Wendelle C. Stevens

ISBN: 0-934269-05-X


`UFO Photographs around the World Vol 1'

ISBN: 0-934269-00-9


`UFO Photographs around the World Vol 2'

ISBN: 0-934269-01-7


`UFO Contact from the Reticulum'

By: Wendelle Stevens

ISBN: 0-93785-06-3


`Light Years'

By: Gary Kinder

ISBN: 0-87113-139-0


`Extraterrestrials among us'

By: George Andrews

ISBN: 0-87542-010-9


`The Goblin Universe'

By: Ted Holiday

ISBN: 0-87542-310-8


`UFO's over modern China'

By: Stevens and Dong

ISBN:0-9608558-3-1



-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!richard

From: richard@nacjack.gen.nz (Richard Vowles)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Recent juvenile posts

Message-ID: <16da2e88@nacjack.gen.nz>

Date: 24 Feb 92 11:18:32 GMT

Organization: Malleus Maleficarum - Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre

Lines: 18



Regarding the recent posts from various members of Dimension BBS that

pass through this BBS, they have been spoken to and will refrain from

doing it in the future.


Sorry about the inconvenience, but please don't post me any more mail.

It costs.


Richard


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

In complete darkness we are all the same. It is only our knowledge and

wisdom that seperates us. Don't let your eyes deceive you.


"I make sure I spread my villainy thinly...." - Bernadette Mooney


USENET  : richard@nacjack.gen.nz       The Demi-Monde : 199:310/1

FIDONET : Richard Vowles 3:772/110.0   Amateur Radio  : ZL1UTF

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!aisb!cstr!rjc

From: rjc@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Richard Caley)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <RJC.92Feb25091320@brodie.cstr.ed.ac.uk>

Date: 25 Feb 92 09:13:20 GMT

References: <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Feb24.050239.6239@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>

Sender: news@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Network News Administrator)

Organization: Centre for Speech Technology Research

Lines: 15

Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:21026 sci.space:27043 alt.paranormal:4498 alt.alien.visitors:4673

In-Reply-To: chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com's message of 24 Feb 92 05:02:39 GMT


In article <1992Feb24.050239.6239@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>, Tom Chapin (tc) writes:


Robert Sheaffer writes:

rs> The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on whoever makes extraordinary claims.


tc> And just who gets to define what is ordinary and what is extraordinary?


Whoever you are trying to convince, obviously. 


You don't have to produce extrodinary proof unless you wish people who

find your claims extrodinary to believe you. 


--

rjc@cstr.ed.ac.uk _O_

|<

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!netcomsv!ctedge!bogus!root

From: root@bogus.UUCP (David Grant)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets (M.S.)

Message-ID: <Xo7PgB1w164w@Bogus.COM>

Date: 26 Feb 92 00:18:08 GMT

References: <92056.114708DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>

Organization: Bogus.COM -- Public Access Network Services

Lines: 13


<DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:


> If anyone knows where I can get a copy of this list, could they please send i

> my way via E-Mail (no need to waste bandwidth...).

> Dave


I'd also like a copy, so maybe a post wouldn't be out of order.


<smile>


  ** Bogus -- Public Access Network Services (501) 525-1681 14400 HST/V.32 **

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Under law, can you indict an alien for rape?

Message-ID: <jms.07jd@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 25 Feb 92 18:08:56 GMT

References: <1992Feb23.201804.29490@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 7


Sounds like Phil Klass's challenge to report abductions to the FBI.


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen

From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: A field trip on an extraterrestrial spacecraft.

Summary: A guided meditation

Keywords: 11:11

Message-ID: <1992Feb26.092511.19792@beaver.cs.washington.edu>

Date: 26 Feb 92 09:25:11 GMT

References: <1992Feb24.020157.12139@beaver.cs.washington.edu>

Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System)

Organization: University of Washington Computer Science

Lines: 164


--

     Haven't you ever wanted to take a trip aboard an extraterrestrial

rayship into space? Well we can, here and now! This article contains a

short guided meditation where the reader takes an inner visit aboard

the mother ship of a loving alien race. Believe it or not, I would say

this is a rather accurate rendition of what it actually is like aboard

"typical" spacecraft, at least those not limited to our 3rd dimension!

The passage is another excerpt from the book "Bashar: Blueprint for

Change. A Message from Our Future", by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing,

which is "channeled" from an extraterrestrial named Bashar (although

don't let that label add to or take away from the feeling.) For those

who have been expressing interest in this book, it is 302 pages

($13.95 or so) available from New Solutions Publishing; Seattle, WA;

ISBN# 1-56284-113-0. The back cover of it reads as follows:


--

                "Bashar, are we going to blow ourselves up?"

"No!! Your civilization has already decided on a collective

 subconscious level not to do so.

  You all chose to be here in this transformational age to see that you

   do NOT replay Atlantis and destroy yourselves and your world this time

    around.

     Around the year 1997 a spark will be ignited in your Middle East....

      There will be a complete transformation in that entire area....

       By your year 2027 your world will be absolutely interwoven into the

        Galactic Association of Worlds - as an equal member.

         We have no need for you to believe us. We are here to assist you in

          believing in yourselves.

           The only time you have struggle and pain is when you are trying to

            be someone you are not, fighting your natural flow.

             When you remove guilt from your tool box, you will realize that

              nothing is too good or too simple to be true; nothing is too

               wondrous or too ecstatic to be yours.

                You deserve all you can conceive of...."

--


And now let us take you on a field trip to the Solar Wind, our mother

ship.... Close your eyes.


In your mentality have the picture of the room you have created around

you, and envision each individual, all of you together, all at once,

surrounded by a blue crystalline bubble of energy. This bubble is your

elevator, your ship. Relax and allow yourselves now to become the

devices within the ship that activate it. Leave the idea of your

earthly devices and tools behind; pay attention to them no more. You

are the transference point; you are the ship.


Allow yourselves to recognize that the crystalline shell is quite

transparent; you can see through it and you can see the room. In

whatever way works best for you, in your imagination feel and see at

the same time the room around you dissolve into a gray, fog-like

state. You are all now together in this ship; you are all linked and

you are all breathing the same energy.


Breathe it in three times deeply and prepare yourselves. Align

yourselves; assimilate yourselves; unite yourselves. Feel the

connection; feel that while you are individuals, every single other

individual in this craft is *you*! - an extension of you, an

expression of you, a facet of you. You are all one, one master

crystal. And this crystal, in allowing the white light of your

consciousness to glow within its very core, within its very heart, now

comes alight with life and light, energizing the entire crystalline

craft and rising above the Earth - higher and higher into the upper

atmosphere, into what you call space.


Rising, you look down below. You see out of the fog now everything

clearing into brilliant space, black with white stars everywhere. You

see the beautiful Earth below you, shining like the jewel that it is,

in the velvet curtain of deepest space, and you send your love. You

see and feel and taste and hear the love of the Earth that is

supporting you, that is extending you on its arm, extending you on

your journey out into space. You are riding on the crest of the wave

of the heart of your planet.


Now as it offers you the jewels of space, you look up. You see

suspended in space before you a long cylindrical metallic object. It

is approximately a mile in length. You allow yourselves now to see an

opening in the side of this metallic object, wider and wider as you

approach. You enter that opening, and as it closes below you, you are

surrounded by a whiteness. You may sense in that whiteness, here and

there, solid or nebulous, consciousness peering at you, smiling with

you, loving with you, fading in and out - out of the milky whiteness.

But laughing and sharing joy all around.


Allow yourselves to know that you can now begin to explore any area in

any way, any aspect of this ship you so desire. There will always be

someone with you in some capacity. You will also always be connected

and feel the experiences of every other person you came with.


Now you are exiting the bubble and entering the milky whiteness of the

ship, exploring and breathing the new atmosphere. Feel the gentle

touches and caresses of the beingness all around you. Scatter and

explore; enjoy and become fascinated by what you discover. Taste,

touch, hear, feel, see, marvel. Recognize that you are sharing and

participating in the creation of a multitude of worlds. Experience and

take to heart these experiences.


Whether or not it appears to make sense to you, allow yourselves to

interpret, in whatever way you so desire, the different chambers and

areas of the ship. Let yourselves have the opportunity to recognize

that in a very real way you are projecting astrally a portion of your

consciousness. And that you are going to be funneling that information

back to your idea of your earthly selves, incorporating that

information into your very molecular structure. You will be feeding

this information into the atmosphere around you, and when you carry

this atmosphere back to your planet Earth, you will release the

information and energy on your planet - to change the very air that

you breathe, to change the very energy that sustains you.


Explore to your heart's content. Feel the vibrant pulse of life and

light, for it is light itself which powers the vessel, and all vessels

like it. It is the very heart and soul of the movement of space and

time through the central core of this ship that creates the illusion

of the ship's motion through all the dimensions of reality. Now be

aware of the whereabouts of each other. Gather yourselves back

together into your docking bay, into the milky whiteness. Feel the

caresses and the kisses that are given to you from heart to heart and

soul to soul.


As you form your craft round and about you in its crystalline beauty,

and the iris opens below you, allow yourselves to drift back outside

the hull into space and begin your travel toward planet Earth.

Recognize now, as you bid farewell, that this is not goodbye, that

this experience is directly with you now and it always shall be. And

as you look down through the crystalline bottom of your energy craft,

you see once again the beauty of the jewel of your Earth. Recognize

that it is in every way truly a new world to explore in all of its

unlimited fascination and facets.


You are eager to allow the atmosphere of the new crystalline reality

that you know you are participating within to burst upon contact with

your Earth and allow the shards of brilliant seed-like beauty to go

scattering everywhere, reflecting the beautiful light of your central

star. And as you sink gently back to Earth, see your feet gently touch

the ground. Send roots deep down to drink of the nourishment of the

fluid of the life and light of your home world, while knowing that all

worlds are your home world. Know that the life you are, the Earth you

are, is the nourishment that will allow you to grow toward the light

as high as you wish to go.


Know that every one of you have incorporated the information of the

experience in your own way, encoded it within you, and it will release

in its own fashion, after your own kind. And that much of your dream

reality can become vivid and vibrant. There may be more release, more

malleability, more recognition that life around you is but what you

dream it to be. Allow yourselves to know that it was a real

experience, and that you have projected a portion of yourselves aboard

that craft.


In every way there is still, and always will be, a portion of

yourselves aboard that craft that we will share, that you will share

together with us. We thank you for your participation, and we will

allow you to remember: ALL REUNIONS ARE SIMPLY AWAKENINGS TO THE UNION

THAT ALREADY EXISTS EVERYWHERE, EVERYWHEN.


--


-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu     |

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |

-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -

|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

Path: ns-mx!uunet!ihz.compuserve.com!dzecchini

From: dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com>

Date: 26 Feb 92 09:42:43 GMT

References: <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>

Organization: CompuServe Incorporated

Lines: 29

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4677 sci.space:27054 sci.skeptic:21035 alt.paranormal:4502



Alright, everyone...if you wanted my opinion in the first place, I figure

that now's the best time to give it, after I've had a good chance to peruse

the images.


I've spent about 30-45 minutes studying both the non-enhanced and the

enhanced blow-up photos of the "face on Mars".  And IMHO, there is NO

I repeat, NO significant evidence that suggests that the potential facial

features are symmetrical in nature, and the pattern of shadows appears 

to be a one-sided effect that leaves much too much to the imagination

to be considered anything more than a natural formation.


In other words, there probably isn't a right-hand side to the face, and

the remainder boils down to three small hills, off-center, on a larger

hill that obscures part of the side in shadow.


No big deal.


I may be wrong, but at this point, that's my opinion, and hey, that's what

opinions are all about, now isn't it.


Be seeing you...



-- 

         David "Maelstrom" Zecchini | "It may be better to be a live jackal

       dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com | than a dead lion, but it is better still

 dzecchin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | to be a live lion.  And usually easier."

           maelstro@bluemoon.rn.com | -Robert A. Heinlein

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Mike.Keithly

From: Mike.Keithly@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Keithly)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Gateway Test

Message-ID: <112051.29A937AF@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 24 Feb 92 15:48:01 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/605.0 - MICAP(sm) Net, Littleton CO

Lines: 19



 > Hi everybody.  Could a few of you respond to this test?

 I suppose you are getting out to here so far..

                Mike Keithly

 > I'm wondering if my gateway is actually letting anything out

 > of here...


 > Thanks,

 >   Clark



 > --- XRS 4.5!

 >  * Origin: The Wrong Number BBS - ParaNet(sm) PI (201)

 > 451-3063 (1:107/816)


--  

Mike Keithly - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Mike.Keithly@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews

From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Gateway Test

Message-ID: <112350.29AAE687@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 26 Feb 92 01:22:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ

Lines: 19


In a message to Clark Matthews <24 Feb 92 08:48> Mike Keithly wrote:


 MK> I suppose you are getting out to here so far..

 MK>                Mike Keithly


Thanks, Mike!  Now to see if anything comes back from the Internet.


I have assumed that my addressing is working correctly, but I get no responses to my posts.  Maybe it's my BREATH???  :-)


BTW, how's XRS working for you?  Let me know in ParaNet Sysop if I can help.


Best,

  Clark



--  

Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!uunet!psgrain!percy!parsely!agora!trifid

From: trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?

Keywords: Open-minded skepticism

Message-ID: <1992Feb26.063418.7056@agora.uucp>

Date: 26 Feb 92 06:34:18 GMT

References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <house.698888095@helios>

Organization: Open Communications Forum

Lines: 9

Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:21036 sci.physics:18037 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1064 alt.paranormal:4503 alt.alien.visitors:4680 sci.energy:7895




Well, the theory behind "think tanks" is that we should listen to *all* input,

even the most bizarre and exotic. Not just for intellectual freedom, but

because a really "left field", unworkable theory might just trigger a *useful*

theory in another person who hears of it and is set to thinking along

unfamiliar lines... 


Suze

Path: ns-mx!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!ukma!psuvax1!psuvm!dam137

From: DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?

Message-ID: <92057.090559DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>

Date: 26 Feb 92 14:05:59 GMT

References: <J23ggB3w164w@cellar.org>

 <1992Feb24.052333.6847@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> <9320@inews.intel.com>

Organization: Penn State University

Lines: 21


I'd have to disagree to a point.  The hostility is actually quite well.  It

creates two healthy climates.  First of all, by being hostile, you are forcing

people to continuously look over their work and examine everything with the

finest detail.  If their work is valid, they will amass the proof necessary

to defeat all arguments against it.  The work will stand on its own merits

and no one will be able to logically and/or argumentativly (is there such a

word?) destroy the work.  Secondly, it keeps a lot of crackpot theories off

of the net.  If someone knows that they will be torn to shreads if they post

something either off the wall or inconclusive, they will be less likely to

post it.  Either way, the hostility works out for the benifit of the group.

Those of us doing the yelling, however, must also be able to realize when we

can no longer refute an argument and must be strong enough to put our

pride aside and say, "I guess your theory is valid and I was wrong."  When

both sides do their job, then the community in the whole will put out higher

quality work, even if it does take a bit more time.  Sure, scientists in the

past have been criticized, called fools, made fun of, arrested, and so on, but

in the end, those who had valid theories that withstood the "hostile" critics

went on to be considered some of the brightest minds in the history of human-

kind.


Dave

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!danwell

From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?

Keywords: Open-minded skepticism

Message-ID: <1992Feb26.084632@IASTATE.EDU>

Date: 26 Feb 92 14:46:32 GMT

References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <house.698888095@helios> <1992Feb26.063418.7056@agora.uucp>

Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System)

Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)

Organization: Iowa State University

Lines: 18

Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:21040 sci.physics:18041 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1066 alt.paranormal:4505 alt.alien.visitors:4682 sci.energy:7896


In article <1992Feb26.063418.7056@agora.uucp>, trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster

Racewerks) writes:

> Well, the theory behind "think tanks" is that we should listen to *all*

input,

> even the most bizarre and exotic. Not just for intellectual freedom, but

> because a really "left field", unworkable theory might just trigger a

*useful*

> theory in another person who hears of it and is set to thinking along

> unfamiliar lines... 

> Suze


   Yes, well, but compare the amount of left field theorizing that 

actually goes on with the amount optimal to jumpstart useful research.

I suspect we have saturated the market.


Dan

Danwell@IASTATE.EDU

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!masscomp!frank

From: frank@masscomp.westford.ccur.com (Frank Tredeau)

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?

Keywords: Open-minded skepticism

Message-ID: <62799@masscomp.westford.ccur.com>

Date: 26 Feb 92 18:25:04 GMT

References: <house.698888095@helios> <1992Feb26.063418.7056@agora.uucp> <1992Feb26.084632@IASTATE.EDU>

Followup-To: sci.skeptic

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In article <1992Feb26.063418.7056@agora.uucp>, trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster

Racewerks) writes:

> Well, the theory behind "think tanks" is that we should listen to *all*

input,

> even the most bizarre and exotic. Not just for intellectual freedom, but

> because a really "left field", unworkable theory might just trigger a

*useful*

> theory in another person who hears of it and is set to thinking along

> unfamiliar lines... 

> Suze


Just a leetle old clarification, Suze. I think what you

are discribing is problem solving technique called

'brain storming'. A Think Tank is a place where a bunch

of 'top experts in the field' get together and compare notes.

This would be places like MIT or the Rand Corp. or

Cal Tech.

  The main diffrence is any group can 'brain storm' and people

at 'think tanks' try not to look foolish.


Frank Tredeau

sez me

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From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re:  Something Wicked This Way Comes?

Keywords: Alternative 3

Message-ID: <2cmhl9qsheaffer@netcom.com>

Date: 26 Feb 92 19:01:02 GMT

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In article <jms.07it@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:


>theme, and then there's a British book and TV show (movie?) called

>"Alternative 3" that's *really* UFO-conspiracy oriented, to the extent that

>there's been quite a bit of debate over whether it might actually be real.


"Alternative 3" was actually an *April Fools Day* hoax from Anglia TV in

the U.K. about 15 years ago. Then Maj. Wayne Aho picked up on the

paperback book version of it, then Gray Barker did a column about

it and, bingo, *all* the paranoids of UFOland started to take "Alternative

3" seriously!


What, by the way, does "Alternative 3" claim? Only that there's a

secret, joint US/USSR space program to move the earth's elite to Mars

to escape "global warming." To accomplish this, they have created a

work force of kidnapped persons who have been turned into zombies to

work in secret bases on the moon. And of course, they'll kill 

anyone who finds this out.


Nothing too remarkable in any of that, is there? :)



-- 

  

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

  

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",

      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992

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From: operator@ziff.com (Reply to markp@zis.ziff.comm)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Fireball???

Message-ID: <1992Feb26.162743.162@ziff.com>

Date: 26 Feb 92 20:27:42 GMT

Organization: Ziff-Davis, Medford MA

Lines: 18


Hi all,


Just a quick one:


I heard a quick mention on a local radio station here in Boston of a

'fireball' seen in the sky sometime earlier this week, or last weekend.

I believe the reporter said it had been seen by people in 3 states, and

I thought it was in the Carolina's, but don't hold me to that.


It was mentioned that there was still no explaination of what it was.

Did anyone else hear or read anything about this???



Please post any info, NO email.


Thanks,


Markp

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From: ijameson@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Iain Jameson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: The Shriek of the Looney --Part One--

Message-ID: <ijameson.699156562@adelphi>

Date: 27 Feb 92 02:09:22 GMT

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press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:


>I thought the Pleidians were duped by the purple shades of

>grey whom introduced decaf into their coffee magazines(storage

>areas) without their knowledge. The loss of buzz caused the

>Pleid's to grow soft and lazy, wherein the PSoG were able to

>chase them off the planet and inhabit it themselves.

>Thus the Pleid's ran into planet earth, where they cultivated

>their precious brew once again. Many eons later did they

>realize what happened to them, and decided to develop humans

>to guard their magazines against further sabatoge by the

>now Gray shades of Purple who were once the Purple shades of

>Grey before the poles flipped on the Plaeidian planet they took

>over.

>But I could be wrong.


>barry--


No, that's what the Reptiods want you to think.

Did I mention the role of the Reptoids? Not to

worry, you will learn all there is to know about

Reptiods in part 29 of "The Shriek of the Looney".

Send me your money. Decaf was not introduced until

galactic year 501 after the unification. The effect

was quite nasty. A number of star systems were

destroyed by the Pleiadians in their attempt to find

a full bodied coffee. Not even the Purple Shades of

Grey stooped so low as to decaf the coffee, probably

because they did not think of it. But then, what would

a tea drinker know about coffee and its effect on higher

life forms?


Iain.

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From: press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: The Shriek of the Looney --Part One--

Summary: coffee wars and croissants

Message-ID: <1992Feb27.025748.4989@cbnewsd.att.com>

Date: 27 Feb 92 02:57:48 GMT

References: <6274@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> <ijameson.699156562@adelphi>

Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

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In article <ijameson.699156562@adelphi>, ijameson@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Iain Jameson) writes:

> No, that's what the Reptiods want you to think.

> Did I mention the role of the Reptoids? Not to

> worry, you will learn all there is to know about

> Reptiods in part 29 of "The Shriek of the Looney".

> Send me your money. Decaf was not introduced until

> galactic year 501 after the unification. The effect

> was quite nasty. A number of star systems were

> destroyed by the Pleiadians in their attempt to find

> a full bodied coffee. Not even the Purple Shades of

> Grey stooped so low as to decaf the coffee, probably

> because they did not think of it. But then, what would

> a tea drinker know about coffee and its effect on higher

> life forms?

> Iain.



Damn, my reference, _Complete and Comprehensive history of the

Inter-Galactic Coffee and Croissant Wars of the 3rd Nebula_ by

Reambut Doobtwister ISBN 009 435 800 4941-000 000 000.243 000.


This guy went out of his way in the introduction to disavow any

connection to Reptoids, and disclaimed himself too. Who can you

trust? Cost me 1400 zekebots too!

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From: bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Date: 26 Feb 92 21:44:06 GMT

Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login)

Organization: The Matrix

Lines: 43



     This is to all those who think I am nuts or just playing a 

vicious joke on you all.  I AM the guy who jumped onto the live 

set of KNBC in 1987 and held a toy gun to the head of Consumer 

Advocate David Horowitz, and forced him to read a statement on 

live tv about how the CIA and alien forces had taken over my 

family and replaced them with clones of some kind.  I DID it 

not out of insanity, but out of desperation, having had exhausted 

all "normal" means of aquiring relief from the devious things that 

were happening to my family and friends and the people around me.  

I have since learned that these things have been demonic in 

nature, and HAVE involved the secret government behind the U.S. 

government.  I HAVE had angels sent by God trying to save me, and 

one of these DID take the place of my mom in an effort to save my 

family.  YES, I KNOW how it sounds, but I swear that it is 

the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, which is 

what I SHOULD have said five years ago at a trial which didn't 

take place.  I plea bargained my way out of a felony charge, and 

have suffered greatly for my actions.


     Now, I know this is ridiculous, impossible, and so forth, to 

believe to the "average" person, but it IS the truth!  I am 

currently in the process of writing a book about the whole thing, 

titled, "The Invasion of the Human Race" which is pretty 

appropriate.  I have an account on GEnie, and if any of you 

frequent it, you might want to check out the Writers BB, Cat 4, 

Top 29 for my "column".  I also have an account on Compuserve, but 

it has expired.  I am going to be renewing it soon as well.  

Please believe me when I say that these things are all serious and 

quite serious as well.  I have tried to tell you what has been 

happening in the quickest (although perhaps not the best) means 

possible.  This is due to these forces still being present around 

me here in LA and active.  However, (know how this sounds!) God IS 

bringing the matter to a close.  I have a personal relationship 

with Him, something I never thought possible myself in my youth, 

and He is taking care of things.  The stuff about Jesus and other 

dimensions is the honest truth.  It will take a whole book to just 

tell what happened with all that in the past few weeks!  Anyways, 

feel free to write to my address if you would like more info on 

any part of this.  Or, if you are on GEnie, I am G.STOLLMAN.  Take 

care, and I will give you more details when possible.  


     Gary Stollman

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From: chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin )

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb27.041703.9683@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>

Date: 27 Feb 92 04:17:03 GMT

References: <RJC.92Feb25091320@brodie.cstr.ed.ac.uk>

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Richard Caley writes:

>Tom Chapin writes:

>> And just who gets to define what is ordinary and what is extraordinary?

>

>Whoever you are trying to convince, obviously. 

>You don't have to produce extrodinary proof unless you wish people who

>find your claims extrodinary to believe you. 


Oh.  So which claims are ordinary and which are extraordinary is

not something that can be decided with scientific objectivity, but

only with biased subjectivity.  Thank you.  I was wondering how

scientists decided such things.  Turns out to be exactly the same

way as those they claim to oppose.



-- 

     tom chapin                tjc@hrccb.att.com

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From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb26.210311.20023@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

Date: 26 Feb 92 21:03:11 GMT

References: <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com>

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dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:



|>Alright, everyone...if you wanted my opinion in the first place, I figure

|>that now's the best time to give it, after I've had a good chance to peruse

|>the images.


|>I've spent about 30-45 minutes studying both the non-enhanced and the

|>enhanced blow-up photos of the "face on Mars".  And IMHO, there is NO

|>I repeat, NO significant evidence that suggests that the potential facial

|>features are symmetrical in nature, and the pattern of shadows appears 

|>to be a one-sided effect that leaves much too much to the imagination

|>to be considered anything more than a natural formation.


have you seen both images?


|>In other words, there probably isn't a right-hand side to the face, and

|>the remainder boils down to three small hills, off-center, on a larger

|>hill that obscures part of the side in shadow.


|>No big deal.


OK, what odds would *you* give me? 


|>I may be wrong, but at this point, that's my opinion, and hey, that's what

|>opinions are all about, now isn't it.


I don't know what it is, but I think the possibility that they are artifacts

is real enough that I will take bets with attractive odds.


josh

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From: geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz (Geoff McCaughan)

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: Face on Mars FAQ posting

Message-ID: <cN3PgB3w164w@satori.equinox.gen.nz>

Date: 26 Feb 92 10:50:47 GMT

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leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes:


> Hmm,

> I think You forgot to mention, that there are nearby the face (15 Km away) a 

> "pyramids", which are more interesting, than the "face", because such

> rectangular and symetrical shadows can only be produced by something artifici

> We should focus onto the "pyramids" in our discussion , because the face coul

> also be a "well" illuminated mountain !


So could the pyramids.


Grab a dictionary, look up 'ventifact', this will give you a clue.

Finding one could be trickier, try a museum in a large city, or a text

on geology/geography. If you see one, you might understand those

pictures better.


The museum here has a nice one from Antartica on display.


Be very careful with assertions like "can only be produced by something

artificial", there may be a mundane explanation ready to jump out and

surprise you.


| Geoff - Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 (4 Lines)

| Email:  geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz

|         "If I post something lucid, is that satorial eloquence?"

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From: dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb27.064922.2784@csi.compuserve.com>

Date: 27 Feb 92 06:49:22 GMT

References: <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com> <1992Feb26.210311.20023@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

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Josh,


You really want me to give you odds?


Well, to answer your question, I HAVE seen both of the images...(and in 

addition, the images from a book called "The Face on Mars" that I picked

up in the library.  If you want to see enhanced images, THAT book has 

images that are INCREDIBLY over-enhanced.)


And the odds that I would give you AGAINST this particular photo being

a pre-shaped, alien artifact are along the order of 10,000,000 to 1.


The largest doundation for that being, simply put, that they just don't LOOK

like they HAVE to be an artifact.  Granted, there is a SLIM possiblity

that it COULD be non-natural in origin, but there is NO significant evidence

that I can see in either of the photos that indicates that there is symmetry

between the two sides, or that the effect is anything more than just

shadows.


Try this, try looking at the images from a completely different angle,

say, upside down or sideways,and THEN try to see if theere appears to be a

complete symmetry formed.


Sorry, bud...just don't see it.


Be seeing you...(and probably not IT! <g>)


-- 

         David "Maelstrom" Zecchini | "It may be better to be a live jackal

       dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com | than a dead lion, but it is better still

 dzecchin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | to be a live lion.  And usually easier."

           maelstro@bluemoon.rn.com | -Robert A. Heinlein

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From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re:  This Whole Mars Face Off

Message-ID: <1992Feb26.130853.1604@tcom.stc.co.uk>

Date: 26 Feb 92 13:08:53 GMT

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Hi people,

This is a quick digression from the debate. 

Jose Arguelles, in his book "The Mayan Factor" mentions a proposal by 

Japanese-American artist, Isamu Noguchi. He wanted to build a sculpture, a mile

wide, of a face looking skyward. It was never built but the title of it was to 

be "The Sculpture to be Seen from Mars". And this happened 29 years before the

Viking probe had photographed the Mars face.


Pat

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From: lestat@buengf.bu.edu (alexander aranyosi)

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <99412@bu.edu.bu.edu>

Date: 27 Feb 92 07:32:59 GMT

References: <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu>

Sender: news@bu.edu.bu.edu

Reply-To: lestat@buengf.bu.edu (alexander aranyosi)

Followup-To: sci.space

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In article <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu> gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:

>In article <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> Frank T Lofaro <fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>

>                                                        While it would

>   be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by

>   demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many

>   of them are. If someone gets possessed by a demon (which I *do* believe

>   happens, though not very often), they will appear to unenlightened

>   science to be mentally ill. Modern science does not comprehend, nor is

>   it intended to explain, phenomina that deal with non-physical entities,

>   such as demons. Scientists do not understand the soul, spirits, and

>   demons and how they affect what appears to them to be the "real" world.


Ok... let us take schizophrenia as an example.  Schizophrenia occurs in one

out of every 100 people.  In the present population, that amounts to about

50 million people worldwide.  Assume for the moment that some cases of 

schizophrenia are caused by demon possession.  Even if the percentage of 

cases is incredibly small, a large number of people would be possessed

by demons.  However, it has been shown that schizophrenia can be "cured" 

(I use quotes, because stopping treatment causes a relapse) by treatment

with dopamine, a neurotransmitter.  Thus we can assume that some of these

cases of demon possession (assuming that this form of insanity happens

often enough to make it worth talking about at all) have been cured by

dopamine treatment.  The actual method by which dopamine cures schizophrenia

has not been established; it is only known that it works.  Since science

can be described as the task of naming and explaning things, it seems just

as reasonable to attribute the original problem to "demons" as to a "chemical

imbalance" (which, really, does not explain the problem any better than the

word "demons").  Thus we can say that demons and/or a chemical imbalance

cause schizophrenia.  Dopamine cures schizophrenia.  So dopamine counteracts

the action of either the demons or the chemical imbalance.  My point is that

the word "demons" is just another way of saying "something scientific

research hasn't explained yet," so it works just as well as "a chemical

imbalance" or "the oogily monster" to describe the problem.  Another good

example is gravity; as far as I am aware, no one knows the exact cause of

gravitational attraction.  It could be caused by a thousand demons inhaling

at the same time.  Because we can predict and model the effect of gravity

in any situation, it falls under the realm of science.  The point of 

science is not "can we explain the reason behind every event that happens?";

that is left to philosophers.  The point of science is "can we explain

HOW an event happens, and can we predict its occurrence in the future?"

The existence or nonexistence of demons have absolutely nothing to do

with science.


A.J. Aranyosi

lestat@buengf.bu.edu

(P.S. I know my handle is the name of a vampire.  I didn't pick it myself,

so don't blame me.  I personally wanted Wintermute. :)

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From: youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Scott D. Young)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb27.064932.16546@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

Date: 27 Feb 92 06:49:32 GMT

References: <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com> <1992Feb26.210311.20023@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

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In <1992Feb26.210311.20023@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes:


>dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:


>I don't know what it is, but I think the possibility that they are artifacts

>is real enough that I will take bets with attractive odds.


>josh


   A question...if they are left by some long-dead civilization, why is it

   we only found a face, and not football stadiums or cities or nuclear 

   reactors?  I mean, if you are going to build something, and you can only

   build one "something" of such huge size (time/effort constraints, whatever)

   how many people would build a face that only hypothetical "aliens" (as in

   non-Martians) could see?  If someone in the government said, "Let's not

   build all those bombers, but a 200 mile long bust of Elvis," you know what

   they'd do to him?  They'd chase him up a tree and set fire to it.


      Such blatant stupidity and waste of resources *could* explain why these

   Martians aren't around anymore, though.  (OK, maybe one- Dan Quayle.)   :)


   Scott Young

   youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!claris!szebra!spectrx!system

From: system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: jpeg viewer required

Message-ID: <gZDsgB1w165w@spectrx.saigon.com>

Date: 27 Feb 92 04:50:51 GMT

References: <1992Feb21.093852.22818@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>

Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca

Lines: 25


degnans@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Easter Beagle) writes:


>  So now we've got a ufo ftp site.

>  

>  All the pictures are in jpeg format!

>  

>  So how's 'bout a jpeg viewer from someone?


since jpeg is a 24bit color type file, on the pc there is not a viewer 

for it(other than image alchemy).  but what you might want is 

gif2jpg and jpg2gif, so you can view them with your favorite gif viewer.

you can get that from


                listserv@spectrx.saigon.com


                       send a message containing


/GET /public/ibm/graphics/gifjpg.zip


the file is approx 77k and is for the IBM PC/MS-Dos


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aaron Anderer, System Operator                system@spectrx.saigon.com

SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1 408 252 1005              szebra!spectrx!system          

NO MORE BUSH!          Write in Cuomo for '92!        NO MORE BUSH!

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms

From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: airships [was: Re:  Star Systems With Habitable Planets]

Message-ID: <jms.07kb@vanth.UUCP>

Date: 26 Feb 92 18:27:32 GMT

References: <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu> <1992Feb25.044729.1040@cbnewsd.att.com>

Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club

Lines: 22


In article <1992Feb25.044729.1040@cbnewsd.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:

>I used to be an avid UFO buff for at least 10 years straight('68-78')

>approximately. I remember reading about sightings of dirigibles in the

>mid to late 1800's before they were manufactured and used.

>If this is accurate, they first appeared in modern times in the form

>of airships or zeppelins. It wasn't until mid 1940'(?) they were sighted

>as flying discs near Mt. Ranier in Washington state.

>Any support?


The odd thing about the airship sightings of the late 1800s is that a lot

of them included *human* occupants, and there were reports of humans

claiming to have built them.  There was a series about the phenomenon in

the May, June, and July 1973 issues of Fate.


Has anyone heard of C.A.A. Dellschau or a secret society called NYMZA,

other than through the Fate articles?


--

 *  From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp                 | "They don't tell me

 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find

 37 Brook Street      | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."

 Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com      |      (Phil Collins)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple!netcomsv!hotcity!kirkm

From: kirkm@hotcity.COM (Kirk Marcroft)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?

Message-ID: <kirkm.0eql@hotcity.COM>

Date: 27 Feb 92 09:05:48 GMT

References: <11158@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>

Organization: BBS

Lines: 110


In article <11158@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>, tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl

Neustaedter) writes:

>In article <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

>> [ Skepticism about devils ]

>> (WARNING: I just can't take it anymore - it's been building for a long time -

>

>> this was the straw that broke the camels back!  I got to get on my soapbox an

>d

>> get it off my chest.)

>> 

>> The rest of us, including me, should maintain a healthy, not an unhealthy

>> skepticism about alternative scientific theories.

>> [...healthy vs unhealthy skepticism...]

>> And why do I say this?  Well, it's pretty obvious from reading many postings

>> on Usenet that many (but not all) scientists and engineers are fairly

>> intolerant (read:  hostile) of ideas and theories that run counter to what

>> they were taught and now believe.

>

>There is a reason for this hostility. The random theories presented are

>frequently supplied by someone who doesn't know what he is talking about,

>and the hostile person will sometimes know more than a little about the

>subject being discussed. It can be very frustrating to deal with someone

>who claims to be able to invalidate centuries of work with a grandiose idea,

>and hasn't bothered to read as much as an elementary text in the subject

>being discussed.

>

>Ideas are a dime a dozen. Crackpots produce ideas by the gross tonne.

>Science, and indeed, knowledge itself, is not ideas. It is validated

>facts and mathematical relationships between cause and effect allowing

>accurate predictions to be generated.

>

>Anything less is simply useful for fertilizing petunias. Indistinguishable

>from what comes out of the south end of a north-bound steer.

>

>When someone has a fantastic idea about the structure of the universe,

>he/she/it should spend some time to determine whether this new idea

>violates any of the existing knowledge our society has built up in the

>past several centuries. If it does, perhaps what it violates should be

>re-examined; but until that happens, the new idea is useless. Note that

>re-examined means re-measuring whatever result you don't like; if said

>re-examination produces the same result, your idea has already failed.

>

>Presuming the new idea doesn't violate any existing knowledge (this will

>probably take several years to determine); Differences between what the

>new idea predicts and what the standard model (of whatever you are

>replacing) predicts should be determined. These will probably be tiny

>effects that will be difficult to observe - otherwise we would have seen

>them before. Then you should design and execute an experiment which

>tests the realms where the two models differ. This should take you

>several more years. At this point, you can publish.

>

>So much for what you should do; This group will never be used in that

>context. This group is for people arrogant enough to believe that they

>can, without detailed knowledge of a subject, use sheer inspiration to

>out-do everyone who came before them, who actually bothered to understand

>what they were dealing with. This group is for conspiracy theorists who

>believe that studying existing science will "pollute" them and destroy

>their inspiration. This group is for people who believe in fairies and

>divine inspiration being supreme over observation, math and hard work.

>

>Does that sound hostile? It should.

>

>Now, if you want to discuss new theories, discuss:

>   a) The solar neutrino problem. There was a recent paper addressing

>      this that hasn't made it out to the general press yet. What does

>      it say, and what are it's potential flaws?

>   b) Supernova mechanics. There are some known problems with the existing

>      supernova model, which were brought to light by Sanduleak -69.202

>   c) Developments in merging quantum mechanics with gravity; There have

>      been attempts, what have they involved, and what are their flaws?

>      Which changes have recently cropped up?

>   d) Cosmology; big-bang vs cyclic vs other; What evidence points to

>      which theories, what flaws do they have. What work has been done

>      in getting a big-bang to produce a non-isotropic universe?

>

>(my interest in astronomy is showing).

>

>   e) High-temeperature superconductivity in doped CuO ceramics. Changes

>      to the BCS theory to accomodate these superconductors - news about

>      work to determine if phonons are involved in these superconductors.

>

>If some of the potential changes or new theories are your own, so much the

>better. But if you have a theory on supernovas and don't know what the

>Chandrasekhar limit is, expect to get hammered.

>-- 

>         Tarl Neustaedter tarl@sw.stratus.com

>         Marlboro, Mass. Stratus Computer

>Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.

60

You are obviously an egotist! Who's to stuck on him self to concider other

peoples idea's. I consider any Idea to be valid. It is people like you that

pass over potential brake thruoughs using excuses like "that will never lead

any were!, we've tried that don't bother!, It will never work!". A good

example of this was the Magnetic Uranium Inrichment proccess that was given up

on back in the 50's by the American Gov. So what happens?! Iraq picks up the

idea about 15 years ago and inproves on it! so that it's efficient and

practical!

Yes I think if some one is going so far as to publish their idea that they do

need to support it with some kind of theory that can be broven in part.


As for radical idea's here's one that will likely choke most of you hard core

dogma types(as above). This is part of a theory that I hope to publish one

day. The basic idea involves extending the periodic table in to the 4th

demension. Why?. It would explain why matter is unstable at the top of the

periodic table as it stands now.


Wookie


P.S. It's people like you that made the dark ages popular and tried to stop

some one like  Neuton!

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!ogicse!orstcs!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!zzzk

From: zzzk@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Ken Eshelby)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <zzzk.699178139@jacobs>

Date: 27 Feb 92 08:08:59 GMT

References: <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com>

Sender: usenet@CS.ORST.EDU

Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept

Lines: 48

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4699 sci.space:27116 sci.skeptic:21095 alt.paranormal:4524

Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu


dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:



>Alright, everyone...if you wanted my opinion in the first place, I figure

>that now's the best time to give it, after I've had a good chance to peruse

>the images.


>IMHO, there is NO

>I repeat, NO significant evidence that suggests that the potential facial

>features are symmetrical in nature, and the pattern of shadows appears 

>to be a one-sided effect that leaves much too much to the imagination

>to be considered anything more than a natural formation.


  But, how can you just dismiss it?  If you can't see what the shadow

  hides, how do you, or don't you know that there is a face, with

  pupils (says Hoagland), and the whole sha-bang?.


>In other words, there probably isn't a right-hand side to the face, and

                       ^^^^^^^^

  That sounds like the speculation that proponents of the face use..


>No big deal.


  to you...


>I may be wrong, but at this point, that's my opinion, and hey, that's what

>opinions are all about, now isn't it.


  That's exactly right.


  It seems everyone is caught up on this face thing, and seem to regard

  the rest of the unusual objects on Cydonia, LIKE:  what about the 

  complex that seems to be east of the face mesa?  The whole city 

  fascinated me.  Was that all hooey?  Even the "Fort" and the "D&M

  Pyramid" and the calculations of the rise of the summer solstice with

  the cliff as a flat back drop, could be a result of a low res picture.


  But what if it's not?  Isn't taking the chance to go back and get better

  resolution photo's worth it?  I think THAT was Hoagland's point.  If we

  never ask, "What if?" then I guess we could just dismiss everything into

  non-existence.



>Be seeing you...


  On Mars, I hope!


-ken

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews

From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: UFO Video-Photo-Documents Part3

Message-ID: <112594.29ACCC9D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 27 Feb 92 07:20:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ

Lines: 24


In a message to All <24 Feb 92 12:01> Steve Urich wrote:


 SU>        So...  Anybody seen these documents? They look pretty ratty,

 SU>        if I feel like it I'll weed thru it and see if anything is

 SU>        worth typing up. I just found this folder of all the UFO

 SU>        goodies that I had filed away since I got it back in 1987.


Hi Steve.  I don't know about the documents, but I have 5 GIFs on my BBS that ostensibly show an alien in a case of some kind.  The GIF files were captured some time ago from a video of the specimen.  It is the ghastliest little thing I've seen in a long, long time.


But having said that -- it looks familiar, doesn't it??  Jim Schaffer & I had some conversations about it on my board ... we both think it's fake (or a terrestial life-form, anyway).  But I can't for the life of me remember what it is.  For some reason, I keep thinking it's a seahorse -- the largest species can get a couple of feet long.  But the pictures I have don't resemble the seahorse ... so there we are.


Please let us know if you succeed in identifying it.


Best,

  Clark






--  

Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews

From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part2

Message-ID: <112595.29ACCCA0@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Date: 27 Feb 92 07:27:00 GMT

Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)

Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ

Lines: 135


In a message to All <24 Feb 92 12:01> Steve Urich wrote:


 SU>        My Review on the Satellite Photograph of a UFO.


 SU> First the Advertisement:


 SU>        A first time ever SATELLITE PHOTOGRAPH OF A U.F.O. with

 SU> documented authentication!


 SU>        This photograph was taken by a weather satellite, making it the

 SU> only OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT satellite photo ever released of a U.F.O! People

 SU> in the U.S. government call this photograph "IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE THAT

 SU> U.F.O's EXIST!!"



Steve, I think it's GREAT that you're obtaining and critiquing these UFO kits -- could you supply the addresses of the people who offer them?


Obviously your reviews of the Alien picture and the Satellite UFO affadavits convey a big caveat emptor -- but if you could supply the name/address of the people offering these kits, we could be sure of what we're getting.


I've got a lot of old Rex Research stuff here -- it's not about alien.visitors but is about Alternate Technology.  Maybe I could contribute some crits of this stuff -- which varies from interesting to laughable.


Thanks!

  Clark




 SU>        See the U.F.O as being V-shaped in the front and rectangular in

 SU> the rear, with a port vision, and four contrails. See the U.F.O flying

 SU> at 5000 miles per hour, while climbing out of the atmosphere. The Earth

 SU> is viewed in the background, documenting its presence!


 SU>        THIS IS CONCLUSIVE PROOF THAT U.F.O'S EXIST!!


 SU>        The satellite photo will cone to you, complete with one glossy

 SU> size 8"x10" color picture of the U.F.O., and all supporting AUTHENTICATED

 SU> DOCUMENTS.


 SU> DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARENTEE, IF NOT AS ADVERTISED HEREIN!!


 SU> My Review Comment:


 SU>        SO!!! HAHAHAHA..... Well I did get a glossy 8"x10" picture of

 SU> a flying `Baseball HomeBase Plate' :-) There wasn't much color in the

 SU> color picture mostly some grayscale `blue-white'. I personnally don't

 SU> know what it is and to me it might just might be something so...

 SU> here is what the AUTHENTICATED DOCUMENTS say :-).


 SU> ---------------------------STARTING DOCS-----------------------------

 SU> Mid-America Remote sensing Center

 SU> Murray State Univ, Murray, KY

 SU>                                                        Oct 31, 1985


 SU> To Whom It May Concern:


 SU>        The image in question appears to be the output of a satellite

 SU> remote sensing device. To the best of my knowledge the information

 SU> depicted on the image in question is authentic.


 SU>                                                Thomas C. Kind, PhD.

 SU>                                                Professor

 SU>                                                Dept. of Geosciences


 SU> #2


 SU> To Whom It May Concern:


 SU> On the eveing of Oct 30, 1985, I examined an electronic negative image

 SU> which appears to be a genuine, untampered, unretouched image.


 SU> Stephen J Robertson

 SU> Owner, Robertson's Creative Photography


 SU> #3


 SU> Southeast Missouri State Univ.

 SU> Cape Girardeau, Missouri

 SU>                                                Friday, Nov 1, 1985


 SU> To Whom It May Concern:


 SU>        I am Professor of Physics (highest rank) at Southeast Missouri

 SU> State Univ. hold tenure, and served as chairman of the department of

 SU> physics for nearly twenty years. I have not served as chairman for about

 SU> three years.

 SU>        I have held several offices in state science organizations,

 SU> including the office of President of the Missouri Academy of Science and

 SU> President of the American Association of

 SU> Physics Teachers, Missouri Section.


 SU>                                                Dr Harley D. Rutledge


 SU> (Notice the above person never mentions the Photograph :-)


 SU> #4


 SU> Southeast Missouri State Univ.

 SU> Cape Girardeau, Missouri

 SU>                                                Nov 1, 1985


 SU> To whom it may concern:


 SU> I have examined the imagery of concern to Dr. Rutledge.

 SU> The background terrain appears to match a portion of irregular

 SU> coastline and associated islands centered approximately 40 kilometers

 SU> southwest of Vladivostok, U.S.S.R., in the vicinity of latitude 43deg

 SU> N; longitude 331deg E.


 SU>                                ?. Ray Knox

 SU>                                Professor of Geology


 SU> ==============================EOT DOCS===============================


 SU> --

 SU> ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP

 SU> |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 SU> ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me

 SU> in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 SU> ###############----------------------|Ve

 SU> ###############----------------------|Ve SU> ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo  

 SU> |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 SU> ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo

 SU> |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 SU> ##          

 SU> ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 SU> ####       ####Amateur Radio Packet:

 SU> WB3FTP@WA3NWL.PA.USA.NOAM####       ####

 SU> _###############_________________________

 SU> ###############_________________________

 SU> --- ConfMail V4.00

 SU> * Origin: Paranet(sm) - The world's leading UFO Investigative


--  

Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422

UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name

INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson

From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <6015@shodha.enet.dec.com>

Date: 27 Feb 92 13:58:29 GMT

Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com

Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Lines: 25



In article <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes...

>     This is to all those who think I am nuts or just playing a 

>vicious joke on you all.  I AM the guy who jumped onto the live 



        Gary,


        Everything you  have  written  in  this  file proves that you are

        either a RAVING  MAD MAN or an utter FRAUD.  Personally I believe

        that you believe what  you are writing but I also believe you are

        a complete lunatic.  You need help desperatly.


        You  are  not  going to find any believers here in the  world  of

        reality which you apparently have no concept of.  I would suggest

        you find  a  good  shrink and work real hard on getting a grip on

        yourself.


        Steve Food_for_the_Grays


        P.S  I have a coworker who claims  that  he  is the original Gary

        Stollman and you are a clone that  went  bad and escaped from the

        local  Clone  demolition  planet and that you should  be  Soylent

        Green right now.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry

From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb27.164032.27539@zoo.toronto.edu>

Date: 27 Feb 92 16:40:32 GMT

References: <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu> <99412@bu.edu.bu.edu>

Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

Lines: 8

Xref: ns-mx sci.space:27122 alt.paranormal:4525 alt.alien.visitors:4703 sci.skeptic:21099


In article <99412@bu.edu.bu.edu> lestat@buengf.bu.edu (alexander aranyosi) writes:

>Ok... let us take schizophrenia as an example...


Can this discussion PLEASE be taken out of sci.space?  It has lost whatever

tenuous connection it ever had to spaceflight.

-- 

The X Window system is not layered, and | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology

it was not designed. -Shane P. McCarron |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb

From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Crop Circles

Message-ID: <1992Feb27.165004.21345@tcom.stc.co.uk>

Date: 27 Feb 92 16:50:04 GMT

Sender: news@tcom.stc.co.uk (System Administration)

Organization: BNR Europe, New Southgate, London. N11 1HB.

Lines: 18


Greetings Earthlings,


Jim Shaeffer (I think) recently wondered whether the mandelbrot crop 

circle which appeared in England last year was a hoax. I cannot prove it was or

was not but here is part of what the magazine, "Kindred Spirit" (Winter 1991) 

has to say on it:


"...Farming neighbours recorded the formation on cine film; they were

convinced it could not have been hoaxed, the corn had been flattened evenly,

there were single stems of standing wheat between the circles, there were no

footmarks or signs of machinery..."


Pat

-- 

Patrick Brosnan.  <patb@tcom.stc.co.uk> || ...!mcsun!ukc!stc!patb

Northern Telecomm, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB. Phone : +44 81 945 2135


"In Lake'ch (I am another yourself)" - Mayan code of honour.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb

From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Recent juvenile posts

Message-ID: <1992Feb27.165934.21505@tcom.stc.co.uk>

Date: 27 Feb 92 16:59:34 GMT

References: <16da2e88@nacjack.gen.nz>

Sender: news@tcom.stc.co.uk (System Administration)

Reply-To: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)

Organization: STC Telecomms, New Southgate, London, N11 1HB

Lines: 9


In article <16da2e88@nacjack.gen.nz> richard@nacjack.gen.nz (Richard Vowles) writes:

>

>Regarding the recent posts from various members of Dimension BBS that

>pass through this BBS, they have been spoken to and will refrain from

>doing it in the future.

>

I hope it was quick and painless.


Pat

Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!aero.org!robert

From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <1992Feb27.180500.3855@aero.org>

Date: 27 Feb 92 18:05:00 GMT

References: <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Sender: news@aero.org

Organization: Ssaymssik Inc.

Lines: 9


In article <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:

>

> [inanities ommitted]

>


Stollman, you are a LUNATIC. PLEASE commit yourself to an institution

before you hurt yourself or anyone else.


RS

Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!aero.org!robert

From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <1992Feb27.181126.4111@aero.org>

Date: 27 Feb 92 18:11:26 GMT

References: <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Sender: news@aero.org

Organization: Ssaymssik Inc.

Lines: 6


In article <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:

>

> [psychotic babbling ommitted]

>


Stollman, you are a RAVING LUNATIC.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!mcnc!duke!jek

From: jek@duke.cs.duke.edu (this space for rent)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Fireball???

Message-ID: <699210582@juliet.cs.duke.edu>

Date: 27 Feb 92 17:09:43 GMT

References: <1992Feb26.162743.162@ziff.com>

Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

Lines: 26


In article <1992Feb26.162743.162@ziff.com> operator@ziff.com (Reply to markp@zis.ziff.comm) writes:

>

>I heard a quick mention on a local radio station here in Boston of a

>'fireball' seen in the sky sometime earlier this week, or last weekend.

>I believe the reporter said it had been seen by people in 3 states, and

>I thought it was in the Carolina's, but don't hold me to that.

>It was mentioned that there was still no explaination of what it was.

>Did anyone else hear or read anything about this???


I didn't see it.


But, in March of 1989, I did see most of the northern part of the sky

turn blood red, with a large white 'V' with its vertex just above the

horizon and the open part close to the zenith.


Pretty freaky, if you ask me.

Of course, it turned out to just be the effects of unusually strong

atmospheric ionization (?) and the V was a couple of jet contrails.

This particular atmospheric disturbance caused sightings of the aurora

borealis all the way down to Jamaica, as I recall.  Pretty nifty.


-- 

James Kittock -- Class of 92 -- Computer Science/Mathematics, Duke University

jek@cs.duke.edu | mcnc!duke!jek | PO Box 5750, Duke Station, Durham, NC 27706

  I would gladly risk feeling bad, if only I could taste my dessert. - Data

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!ukma!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy

From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part1

Keywords: Review Footage

Message-ID: <1992Feb24.172432.4575@anasaz>

Date: 24 Feb 92 17:24:32 GMT

References: <286@beyonet.UUCP>

Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az

Lines: 30


In article <286@beyonet.UUCP> beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) writes:


... stuff introducing the Meiers film deleted ...

->

-> See dematerialization and rematerialization of the U.F.O. See the

->strange light shift that occurs during the tranformation! See a UFO as big

->as a HOUSE hovering above a well traveled hightway! Hear the sound of this


Watch the tree branches, not the UFO, during this sequence.  The splice

can be seen very easily with the naked eye.  The "light shift" and sudden

jump of the branches shows the change in lighting and wind conditions

between the two sequences. Also, in other sequences, watch the cloud patterns

in the background to see where splices occur.


->They ruled out trick photography because of the more then 1/120 second

->frame speed of the dematerialization and rematerialization. It couldn't

->be done so that part was true. They ruled out the saucer on a string by


Horn swoggle.  This particular sequence was a large part of why Mr. Meiers

was discredited.  As decribed above, changes in "swaying" branches and

lighting conditions from one frame to the next are indicitive of splicing,

not magic.  What's "true" is that the film was altered.


... more horn swoggle deleted ...



-- 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

     Bill Moore     billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu    (602) 395-1732

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part2

Message-ID: <293@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 27 Feb 92 20:26:27 GMT

References: <112595.29ACCCA0@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 100


Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) writes:


>Steve, I think it's GREAT that you're obtaining and critiquing these UFO kits -- could you supply the addresses of the people who offer them?


Sure can but let me warn you this stuff was purchased back around 1987.

I'm surprised you didn't get any UFO junk from them I'm sure you did. 

I bought a book out of a magazine, somehow they got my last name mispelled.

So everytime I see my last name mispelled that way I know it was Junk mail

for UFO and even New Age mailorder places. I think they might have turned

to NewAge `warez' :-). I haven't seen any UFO junkmail in a while here is 

the address. Ask them for the UFO catalog I guess.


Book Brokers

P.O. Box 13924

Orlando, FLA 32859


The last catalog I got from them I think was when I bought the

Video/Photo/Document Kit from them.


They have loads of stuff, books, UFO audio Tapes of UFO witnesses,

Investigators and Researchers.


Here is a list of the Audio Tapes:


Ann Druffel- Southern California Straight Line Mystery in UFO Sightings

Stanton Friedman- Fact, Fiction, and Flying Saucers

Richard Haines- Photo Analysis of an Alleged UFO

Cynthia Hind- African Tribal Reaction to UFO's

Alan Holt- UFO Propulsion; Pulsed radiator nad Crystalline Structure

J. Allen Hynek- The case angainst "ET"

Bill Moore- UFO's ...Most Highly Classified Subject

Richard Neal- The Abduction Phenomena

Richard Niemtzow- Physiological Effects from luminous U.A. Phenomena

Jacques Vallee- Techniques for screening UFO reports

Travis Walton- "UFO abductee"


$5.00 Each at the time...


Also a list of tapes made from the 24th Annual UFO Conference, Burbank, CA

June 12-14 1987


Looks like all of the above were at the conference so I won't waste time

typing the list :-).


Here is a Video List they had:


UFO'S ARE REAL........(90MIN)

UFO: TOP SECRET.......(90MIN)

BEAMSHIP; THE MOVIE FOOTAGE (59MIN)

BEAMSHIP; THE METAL...(45MIN)

BEAMSHIP; THE MEIER CHRONICLES (100MIN)


Beamship; The Metal sounds interesting listen to this:


The remarkable metal specimans delivered to the Swiss contactee be the

Pleiadian cosmonauts represented various states of their spacecraft

developement and contributed conclusive evidence supporting Meier's claims.

Examined by an eminent IBM scientist utilizing an electron scanning

microscope, an unseen world appears through the lens to reveal the amazing

properties of the tiny fragments. Observe the laboratory analysis as it

opens the many secrets of the alien metal. Hear the astonished voice of the

scientists an the mysteries unveil... discover the unusual combination of

metals... the unique purity of substance... and the strange bonding of

material which is impossible to achieve on our planet! These and other

startling findings caused scientists form four major institutions to shake

their heads in astonishment and state publicly, "This metal is NOT of Earth

origin."



>Obviously your reviews of the Alien picture and the Satellite UFO affadavits convey a big caveat emptor -- but if you could supply the name/address of the people offering these kits, we could be sure of what we're getting.


The Satellite Photo is a Real satallite photo, if it wasn't so

symetrical in shape I would have said it was a `freak accident' in

the cloud cover but because of its shape it looks real. 


The picture of the Alien looks like a real bad Xerox photo copy of

something :-). I can only go by the dimensions of the body and from

what seems to be a dwarf with long arms a large carcas torso and

short legs.


>I've got a lot of old Rex Research stuff here -- it's not about alien.visitors but is about Alternate Technology.  Maybe I could contribute some crits of this stuff -- which varies from interesting to laughable.


Yea sound great, there was a Telsa Coil and Jacobs Latter thread in

sci.electronics a while back.


>Thanks!

>  Clark


No Problem! Let the Net know if you get a catalog, maybe there will be some

new stuff available.

Steve

-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Documents Part3

Message-ID: <294@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 27 Feb 92 20:46:18 GMT

References: <112594.29ACCC9D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 44



Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) writes:

>In a message to All <24 Feb 92 12:01> Steve Urich wrote:

[My comments deleted]


>Hi Steve.  I don't know about the documents, but I have 5 GIFs on my BBS that ostensibly show an alien in a case of some kind.  The GIF files were captured some time ago from a video of the specimen.  It is the ghastliest little thing I've seen in a long, long time.


If its the same alien specimen here is what the files that I got

say about the the case it is enclosed in. 


The containers, which resembled a cross between glass covered funeral

caskets and deep -freeze units, were tailor made to suit the ptimary-

preserve these uniqe bodies for study. These containers operated on the

principles of a cryogenic deep freeze unit, utilizing liquid covers and

vented and exhausted in such a way that it was possible to view the bodies

without opening the special display case. Other specimens were prepared for

ordinary cryogenic storage in teh wrappings and stored in cylinders for

possible future need. In this way these vary unusual and unique bodies of

unkown origin could be preserved indefinitely.



Sounds a bit like the Hollywood UFO movie `Wavelength' doesn't it?


>But having said that -- it looks familiar, doesn't it??  Jim Schaffer & I had some conversations about it on my board ... we both think it's fake (or a terrestial life-form, anyway).  But I can't for the life of me remember what it is.  For some reason, I keep thinking it's a seahorse -- the largest species can get a couple of feet long.  But the pictures I have don't resemble the seahorse ... so there we are.

>

>Please let us know if you succeed in identifying it.


Like I said on the other post, It is impossible to Identify

anything that was Xerox copied a million times because of the bad

resolution decay each time you make a copy. :-)


>Best,

>  Clark


Steve

-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: More Dead Bodies

Message-ID: <295@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 27 Feb 92 21:20:11 GMT

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 67



Here is another quick Xerox copy of an article about Dead E.T.

Specimens.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Inserted Article-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


4000-YEAR-OLD CORPSE IS REALLY A SPACE ALIEN, SAYS SCIENTIST

By: Alan Trexler


A bandage-wrapped mummy once thought to be that of an Egyptian princess is

actually the corpse of a space alien who died 4,000 years ago, a top Soviet

scientist reports.


Dr. Yury Ustinov told a gathering of researchers in Antwerp, Belguim, that

Xrays of the mummy clearly show that it is not human, even though it had

been touted as such since its discovery in the 1920s.


The creature was only four feet long, he added.


And a metal plate on its chest bears an inscription that strongly suggests

it came from another planet. "the archaeological discovery of the century

has been right under our noses for decades and we didn't even know it,"

said Dr. Ustinov.


Dr. Ustinov told scientists the mummy was obtained from an East German

research facility that had kept it in storage since purchasing it from a

collector in 1962.


It was routinely Xrayed after its arrival in Moscow, he added. And that's

when the excitement began.


"The first thing we noticed was the inscription on a small golden plate on

its chest." said the expert.


"It said:'Amenemon... beloved of pharaoh who came from the stars to command

the chariots of the host... who died in the 106th year of his

life...beloved of Amon...'


"It would appear that the alien Amenemon arrived on Earth from a distant

planet, lived an inordinately long time and was held in the highest esteem

by royalty.


"He must have looked very much out of place," continued Dr. Ustinov.


"Our study shows that he was humaniod. But he had an elongated skull with

distinct bulges over the eyes.


"The hands had six fingers with no fingernails. The brain capacity was very

large." Strangely enough, a gaping chest wound indicates that the alien was

killed by a spear or sword and the skull definitely had been clubbed.


"There's no doubt that he was murdered," said Dr. Ustinov.


"It would be most interesting to find out why."


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-End of Article-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Steve

-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!news.dfrf.nasa.gov!ra.dfrf.nasa.gov!shafer

From: shafer@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: Face on Mars FAQ posting

Message-ID: <SHAFER.92Feb27145209@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov>

Date: 27 Feb 92 22:43:44 GMT

References: <87LZGMC@zelator.in-berlin.de> <cN3PgB3w164w@satori.equinox.gen.nz>

Sender: news@news.dfrf.nasa.gov (Usenet news)

Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.

Lines: 44

Xref: ns-mx sci.space:27140 alt.alien.visitors:4713 sci.skeptic:21110 alt.paranormal:4526

In-Reply-To: geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz's message of 26 Feb 92 10:50:47 GMT


In article <cN3PgB3w164w@satori.equinox.gen.nz> geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz (Geoff McCaughan) writes:


   leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes:


   > Hmm,

   > I think You forgot to mention, that there are nearby the face (15 Km away) a 

   > "pyramids", which are more interesting, than the "face", because such

   > rectangular and symetrical shadows can only be produced by something artifici

   > We should focus onto the "pyramids" in our discussion , because the face coul

   > also be a "well" illuminated mountain !


   So could the pyramids.


   Grab a dictionary, look up 'ventifact', this will give you a clue.

   Finding one could be trickier, try a museum in a large city, or a text

   on geology/geography. If you see one, you might understand those

   pictures better.


   The museum here has a nice one from Antartica on display.


Or a good library with a copy of "Geomorphology from Space: A Global

Overview of Regional Landforms" (NASA SP-486.

 

Or come look at my slides from our trip to Antarctica--there are only

about 800 of them and most only have short stories to go with them.

A lot of stuff that looks manmade.


   Be very careful with assertions like "can only be produced by something

   artificial", there may be a mundane explanation ready to jump out and

   surprise you.


Or get in an airplane near sunrise or sunset.


Then there's the time I saw a Kelvin-Helmholtz instability in the

clouds, with about 8 of the forms.  This looks about as unnatural as

you can imagine (it makes a very regular set of swirls, sort of like

very stylized ocean waves) and probably would really startle someone 

who hasn't suffered through fluid mechanics.  Sure is pretty.


--

Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA

shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA

 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor

                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!mcnc!duke!jek

From: jek@duke.cs.duke.edu (this space for rent)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <699223265@globe01.cs.duke.edu>

Date: 27 Feb 92 20:41:06 GMT

References: <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

Lines: 92


In article <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:

>

>     This is to all those who think I am nuts or just playing a 

>vicious joke on you all. 


Vicious joke?  Hell no, this is prime entertainment.


>I AM the guy who jumped onto the live 

>set of KNBC in 1987 and held a toy gun to the head of Consumer 

>Advocate David Horowitz, and forced him to read a statement on 

>live tv about how the CIA and alien forces had taken over my 

>family and replaced them with clones of some kind.  I DID it 

>not out of insanity, but out of desperation, having had exhausted 

>all "normal" means of aquiring relief from the devious things that 

>were happening to my family and friends and the people around me.  


I know what you mean.  I tried to get help when I woke up one morning

and realized I was not, in fact, myself, but rather a clone of myself

who had been programmed to act like me.  Unfortunately, the real me

found out and came to get me.  So I had to defend myself, of course,

except that in the end I wasn't really defending myself, but rather

wound up destroying myself, or rather, what used to be me.  In the

end, I just had a beer and everything worked out OK.


>I have since learned that these things have been demonic in 

>nature, and HAVE involved the secret government behind the U.S. 

>government.  I HAVE had angels sent by God trying to save me, and 

>one of these DID take the place of my mom in an effort to save my 

>family.  


Oh yeah, me too.  Well, I suppose I should be more specific.  I had

angel food cake.  Didn't go so hot with the beer, but hey, can't have

everything.


>YES, I KNOW how it sounds, but I swear that it is 

>the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, which is 

>what I SHOULD have said five years ago at a trial which didn't 

>take place. 


You forgot the "so help me god" part.  So you would have been in deep

trouble at that trial which didn't take place, but might have although

it very well could have gone wrong considering you weren't going to

say the right thing.


>     Now, I know this is ridiculous, impossible, and so forth, to 

>believe to the "average" person, but it IS the truth!


I don't consider myself an "average" person, but I still think it is

ridiculous, if that helps you gauge your lunacy any.



>I am 

>currently in the process of writing a book about the whole thing, 

>titled, "The Invasion of the Human Race" which is pretty 

>appropriate.  


Ooh.  How much money do you want me to send you?  My VISA number

is 4838 8337 1039 0666; just bill me.


>Please believe me when I say that these things are all serious and 

>quite serious as well.  


I believe that these things are serious-- a serious sign of someone

who either 1) took too many hallucinogens, 2) went crazy for

non-chemical reasons, or 3) had a hairdryer fall into the tub with

them, but survived.


>God IS

>bringing the matter to a close.  I have a personal relationship 

>with Him, 


Hey, what is this, a smear campaign against "God" now?  And I

thought we were done with that now that the Clinton business was

pretty much worn out.


>The stuff about Jesus and other dimensions is the honest truth. 


What stuff? I remember stuff about Jesus & bread & fish & the cross.

I missed the part about other dimensions.  Was that in Buckaroo Banzai

or something?


>Take care, and I will give you more details when possible.  


You do that.  I need evidence of my own sanity once in a while.


>     Gary Stollman


--Dr. Jekyll

-- 

James Kittock -- Class of 92 -- Computer Science/Mathematics, Duke University

jek@cs.duke.edu | mcnc!duke!jek | PO Box 5750, Duke Station, Durham, NC 27706

  I would gladly risk feeling bad, if only I could taste my dessert. - Data

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ucbvax!stratus.swdc.stratus.com!lpb

From: lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: OIL BARONS SUPPRESS EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES

Message-ID: <9202280005.AA08802@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Date: 28 Feb 92 00:05:35 GMT

Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU

Lines: 188




INSIGHTS INTO THE PROPRIETARY SYNDROME


By KEN MacNEILL


Cadake Industries

Winter Haven, Florida


PART I


To give you some background on myself, I have been interested in the 

energy situation since I can remember.  I have built all kinds of 

devices, solar energy panels, windmills, photovoltaic arrays, flywheel 

devices, and also carburetors of which I will talk on Sunday.  In my 

background I am an accomplished tool and diemaker, moldmaker, been 

involved in Design Engineering for the past 12 years, primarily in the 

automation area.


My first real involvement with other people in this alternate energy 

area was at the Toronto Symposium in 1981 where I met George Hathaway as 

well as over 100 other people that believe in the impossible according 

to orthodox science.  Since that time I have made myself aware of just 

about everything that is happening in this field, and believe me there 

are some really fantastic things going on.  The rediscovery of some of 

the technology that was lost in the past is finally coming to 

realization, for instance the Tesla technology, the Hubbard device, the 

Moray approach to tapping into the free energy supply that we're sitting 

in without even knowing it.


A friend of mine gave me a real insight possibly without even knowing 

it.  He said the problem could only be solved by just considering the 

problem of weighing a glass of water at 500 feet under water.  Here you 

are under water with a glass of water:  how do you weigh it???


The analogy is the same for us.  Here we sit in the vastness of the 

cosmos on top of one of the biggest magnets known to us and we are like 

the glass of water.  We are in the vast ocean of energy.  Look around us 

and watch just the weather for instance, the next thunderstorm, think of 

all the electrical potential being wasted.  That energy is there;  it is 

very real.


Tom Bearden, one of our upcoming speakers, may have illustrated it quite 

well by the bird sitting on top of the wire with 13,000 volts going 

through it.  We all know that it could kill him but it doesn't.  I am 

positive that within this group will be found the ways and means for making 

the energy situation of the future change.  


Now to the other side of this coin.  Why has'nt this technology been 

allowed to become established?  We have to look at the 'profit motive' 

involved.  If we have free energy, how will they charge for it?  What 

will happen to the billions of dollars that the utilities and oil 

companies and the government backing these establishments do if we can 

give the people independence from the chains of having to pay for 

energy?


One question that has been uppermost in my mind for the last year has 

been the rhetoric given by our elected representatives about the energy 

situation and the amount of money given to small researchers who could 

possibly give us a viable approach to becoming energy independent.  Who 

gets the government money??  Let me get a little audience participation 

in the question.  How many of you have all the money you need for 

research in the energy area?  Everyone who has please stand!!!!!  Now 

let me mention a few of the names of the companies that get the money.  

See if you recognize them:  Exxon, Gulf Oil, General Electric, 

Westinghouse, TRW, Exide Storage Battery, all manufacturers or producers 

of fossil fuel products.  We need to get away from the fossil fuels for 

the future and get into something that can indeed give us a future 

because we are rapidly depleting not only our natural resources but our 

air and water.  All because of burning fossil fuels.  We fund our 

universities and colleges in the most directed of ways.  If you want to 

explore the possibilities in some some of the more esoteric areas, for 

instance the ones you will be hearing about in the next three days, 

there is no money for that.  WHY???  Because of the possibility that we 

might succeed.  What would our government do if all the American people 

could go back and forth to work, heat their homes, run their businesses 

without paying taxes on gas and oil?  Consider the fact that all of the 

gas stations would go out of business or would have to find other ways 

of making money.  Many complimentary businesses would also fold.  But 

alas, this is America.  What are we here for???  To perpetuate Big 

Business, Big Government, or to advance toward the future, not expending 

all of our natural resources but to save them to make the goods of the 

future.  Coal and oil both can be used for making all kinds of things 

besides fuels;  the list is endless.


It is my feeling that the technology may be already here and may have 

been shown to the government.  It even may have been introduced to our 

patent office and turned down.  Because as you know, there is no such 

thing as a perpetual motion device.  And I agree with the premise 

because forever is a long time.  


But there are surely some of the devices or parts thereof that have been 

introduced to the government or to big business in the past which have 

been shelved.  Tesla's transmission device is a classic illustration 

probably best known to this group.  What happened is that they removed 

the money from him to do his research and effectively stifled this 

remarkable man.  How many other times has it happened to someone not so 

well known?  At this moment, there are over 3,000 devices or 

applications in the patent office that have been branded as security or 

put under wraps by the secrecy order, Title 35, U.S. Code (1952) 

Sections 181-188.  What is security?  How is it defined?  I have had 

many inventors or other scientists tell me that they did not want to 

discuss their invention with me or others because they might lose it to 

us or we might tell someone else before they got it onto the market.  

Believe me, it won't get there by going through the patent process.  It 

is my feeling that if such a device were introduced at this level, then 

it would be put under the Secrecy Act.  I don't know that I am correct 

in this assumption.  But I cannot imagine a government like ours wanting 

to commit financial suicide.  So what better way than to brand something 

as a secret?  


I would like to read the Secrecy Order to you so that you may better 

understand my concern.  Please pay close attention.  I think it is very 

important.  To you or anyone!!!  Consider your receiving this:



SECRECY ORDER

(Title 35, United States Code (1952), sections 181-188)


NOTICE:  To the applicant above named, his heirs, and any and all 

of his assignees, attorneys and agents, hereinafter designated 

principals:


You are hereby notified that your application as above identified 

has been found to contain subject matter, the unauthorized 

disclosure of which might be detrimental to the national security, 

and you are ordered in nowise to publish or disclose the invention 

or any material information with respect thereto, including 

hitherto unpublished details of the subject matter of said 

application, in any way to any person not cognizant of the 

invention prior to the date of the order, including any employee 

of the principals, but to keep the same secret except by written 

consent first obtained of the Commissioner of Patents, under the 

penalties of 35 U.S.C. (1952) 182, 186.


Any other application already filed or hereafter filed which 

contains any significant part of the subject matter of the above 

identified application falls within the scope of this order.  If 

such other application does not stand under a security order, it 

and the common subject matter should be brought to the attention 

of the Security Group, Licensing and Review, Patent Office.


If, prior to the issuance of the secrecy order, any significant 

part of the subject matter has been revealed to any person, the 

principals shall promptly inform such person of the secrecy order 

and the penalties for improper disclosure.  However, if such part 

of the subject matter was disclosed to any person in a foreign 

country or foreign national in the U.S., the principals shall not 

inform such person of the secrecy order, but instead shall 

promptly furnish to the Commissioner of Patents the following 

information to the extent not already furnished:  date of 

disclosure;  name and address of the disclosee;  identification of 

such part;  and any authorization by a U.S. government agency to 

export such part.  If the subject matter is included in any 

foreign patent application, or patent, this should be identified.  

The principals shall comply with any related instructions of the 

Commissioner.


This order should not be construed in any way to mean that the 

Government has adopted or contemplates adoption of the alleged 

invention disclosed in this application;  nor is it any indication 

of the value of such invention.

-------------------------------------


It is my feeling that something on the order of a so-called 'free energy 

device' would receive this treatment.  My only approach would be to go 

to the public domain.  That is, get the information or the device out 

there to enough people that they could not stop you.  This group looks 

like the best group to give this information to.  Hopefully it will 

forthcoming in the next three days.


-------


Transcribed from:  PROCEEDINGS;  The Second International Symposium on 

Non-Conventional Energy Technology, pp 125-126.


I have been told this was presented on September 23, 1983.


Contact Ken MacMeill at Cadake Industries, P.O. Box 1866, Clayton, GA 

30525.


*******



----- End Included Message -----



----- End Included Message -----

Path: ns-mx!uunet!jwt!gary

From: bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <qk9sgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Date: 27 Feb 92 15:51:37 GMT

Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login)

Organization: The Matrix

Lines: 115



     Here are some of the more lively details about my situation:


     In 1981, I was attending school at my new home Tallahassee, 

at Tallahassee Community College.  When I walked in to register 

for classes, I knew something was wrong right away.  Almost all 

the kids from the previous day had dropped ALL their classes.  It 

just didn't make any sense.  Also, kids were being taken away out 

different exits at random intervals, and had a look on their faces 

as if they wouldn't be seen again.  The whole thing was like some 

kind of a show.  It was totally different from the place I had 

discovered the year before by computer hacking.  


     The semester was a joke.  Some of the kids in my classes were 

obviously with SOME kind of intelligence agency, or at least that 

was the impression I got.  There was so much bs going on it was 

unreal.  I wound up going to a counselor there, and demanded to 

know why these people had been placed in my classes for the 

purpose of spying on me.  You see, I had been followed around the 

country for years by rich kids from California, who held SOME kind 

of a grudge against me for SOMETHING.  I had made a lot of 

powerful enemies in high school and I believe now that this was 

part of a more general conspiracy against me and my family.  


     In any case, I would up in this counselors' office, and she 

asked me who to call, and I said I didn't know.  She said, "What 

about the Sheriffs office?"  I said fine, and she picked up the 

phone and dialed the number.  She spoke for a few moments, then 

turned to me and said, "It's Sgt. Parramoore, Gary.  He says it's 

what you're thinking!"  She then took down his name and told me he 

wanted to meet with me at the courthouse that day to tell me all 

about it.  I was greatly relieved to learn that someone of 

authority was going to confide in me what was going on.  I didn't 

make it to the courthouse!  I stupidly asked one of the kids in my 

psychology class to go with me as a witness.  It turned out he was 

with the CIA or FBI or somebody, cause when we got to the 

courthouse, he went into the marriage bureau and asked for the 

guy.  Then he told me he knew him, and that he was over at the 

Sheriff's station across town.  So we drove over there, and when 

we walked into the watch commanders office and explained the 

sitution to him, he didn't know what the hell we were talking 

about.  Then this "student" asked me to step out in the hall a 

moment so he could talk to the cop alone for a minute.  He closed 

the door and when it opened a minute later, he said, "You can come 

back in now, Gary!"  The watch commander was looking at me like I 

was some kind of hired assassin, and they had the counselor at the 

school on the phone.  She asked me to go into a small mental 

hospital for a while, and I told her to go to hell.  Then I hung 

up and sat down in a chair at the cops desk and asked what the 

heck was going on here.  The "student" says to me this, "Gary, 

these people wouldn't be following you around the country unless 

they had a good reason, or there was a PLOT TO KILL THE 

PRESIDENT!!!  He screamed the bold type at me.  Now, I'll just bet 

you anything that when he shut that door, he whipped some REAL 

heavy duty ID out at the cop to make him think twice about telling 

me anything or believing ANYTHING I might say!  In any case, I had 

lost the first round, and I drove the guy back to school.  On the 

way back, he took pleasure in screaming out the window at the top 

of his lungs at people and waving at them furiously as if in a 

frenzy.  This was a real nice guy, whoever he REALLY was!  You can 

guess they got to this Parramoore guy, cause guess what!!??  When 

I called the operator (the TELEPHONE OPERATOR) and asked for 

information for the sheriff's office, she asked who I wanted to 

speak to there, and I told her, and then she asked me who I was, 

so I told her.  Then SHE says, "Well, have you ever MET Sgt. 

Parramoore before?!  As she was saying that, two guys in track 

suits carrying walkie-talkies came running up and took down the 

number of the pay phone I was at.  I was to experience a lot of 

the same during the rest of the time.  


The day before I went to the sheriff's office, I went to the 

Attorney Generals office at the Capitol building, and demanded to 

know who was in my classes.  The secretary there, told me politely 

to wait, then disappeared.  A few minutes later, another secretary 

appeared, sat down at the desk, then sudddenly and violently 

grabbed the phone, which hadn't rung, and screamed into it, 

"HELLO, OPERATOR, OPERATOR!!!"  You can guess my reaction.  Then 

she so politely told me that the Attorney General was a very busy 

man, and he couldn't see me, but if I would go over to an office 

downtown, their consumer complaints chief would talk to me about 

it.  As I was walking out the door, she said loudly, "GOOD LUCK!"


     I walked into this two-bit office, with a paper sign taped 

onto it in the basement of a building downtown.  Inside, a burly 

man was discussing how much money he could get from running stolen 

cars across state borders in a extremely loud voice.  When he got 

off the phone, he told me that the "chief" would be there in a few 

minutes and to have a seat at his desk.  I sat down.  A minute or 

so later, a man who was at least 7 feet tall walked in and slumped 

into the chair in front of me.  He had a short beard, and a 

totally ragged look about him.  He looked like the perfect CIA 

operative.  He just sat there staring me down for a few moments, 

then he raised himself up on the chair and said slowly and 

methodically, "WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE FOLLOWING YOU??"  I was 

shocked that he even knew, because I hadn't told them anything at 

the Attorney Generals office.  I freaked out and said, "I DON'T 

KNOW!!!"  He said, "But for SEVEN YEARS!!  Why, if they wanted you 

out of the way, they would have just WASTED you!!!"  Didn't sound 

like your typical consumer advocate to me either.  Then he went 

into a lot of drug-paraphenalia type talk, and asked me if I had 

any concrete proof that these people were following me around.  I 

told him that I had taken down license numbers over the years.  He 

then became intensely interested, leaned forward on the desk and 

said, "I NEED that list!"  I told him I didn't have it on me, and 

he left me there, and ushered me out of the office after giving me 

"his" card, on which he crossed out the regular guys number and 

put another and said if I would give him license numbers, he would 

check it out.


     Well, that is how this all really started, the intensely 

painful stuff anyways.  It is late, so I will add more as time 

permits.  Take Care, fellow humans!!



     Gary Stollman

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440

From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Don Ecker:  Super Star on Radio?

Message-ID: <1992Feb28.013937.2751@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>

Date: 28 Feb 92 01:39:37 GMT

Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu

Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)

Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)

Lines: 10

Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu



I've from the Ecker himself that he is going to be on the radio.  

It would seem that it is some obscure National Ratio Network that

know one knows about.


If anyone knows if anyone is going to carry his program, or even

knows what the hell I'm talking about, let me know.  


Don has a face for radio and is quite good.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!ihz.compuserve.com!dzecchini

From: dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb28.013543.15518@csi.compuserve.com>

Date: 28 Feb 92 01:35:43 GMT

References: <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com> <zzzk.699178139@jacobs>

Organization: CompuServe Incorporated

Lines: 41

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4718 sci.space:27143 sci.skeptic:21121 alt.paranormal:4528


As an added defense to my earlier opinions:


My ideal that there is no apparent symmetry to the face is stemming from

much more realistic scientific bounds than from emotional ones.  This

is why I lay the odds much more on the side of a non-symmetrical foundation

than on a potential artifact.


Look at it THIS way:


1:) At least half of the entire "face" is completely shrouded

in shadows, thus meaning that there could be a leveled

out portion or not BUT THAT WE CANNOT KNOW FOR CERTAIN.


2:) IF there is a symmetry to the "face", then this STILL does

not prove it is an artifact, only that it is yet another

in an extremely large number of bizarre-seeming, yet

perfectly natural formations that APPEAR to be of

something we recognize.  It's origin may have been non-

natural, but the odds against that are much higher than

they are for it being an interesting natural phenomenon.


3:) Looking at the enhanced images, it becomes clear to me that

there are very VERY many possible configurations for the

other side that would still produce the SAME shadows as a 

symmetrical one would, but only really ONE that would fit a 

symmetrical model.


Thus, if you're looking at it simply from an odds-for-or-against

viewpoint, the odds AGAINST it being a face increase dramatically.


And that's what I was asked.  The odds against.


Any more questions?


Be seeing you...

 

-- 

         David "Maelstrom" Zecchini | "It may be better to be a live jackal

       dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com | than a dead lion, but it is better still

 dzecchin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | to be a live lion.  And usually easier."

           maelstro@bluemoon.rn.com | -Robert A. Heinlein

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!apple!netcomsv!mork!noring

From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: How about some GIFs? (was: UFO Video-Photo-Documents Part3)

Message-ID: <cknhn=fnoring@netcom.com>

Date: 27 Feb 92 22:32:12 GMT

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Lines: 35


In article <112594.29ACCC9D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) writes:

>

>Hi Steve.  I don't know about the documents, but I have 5 GIFs on my BBS that

>ostensibly show an alien in a case of some kind.  The GIF files were captured

>some time ago from a video of the specimen.  It is the ghastliest little

>thing I've seen in a long, long time.

>

>But having said that -- it looks familiar, doesn't it??  Jim Schaffer & I had

>some conversations about it on my board ... we both think it's fake (or a

>terrestial life-form, anyway).  But I can't for the life of me remember what

>it is.  For some reason, I keep thinking it's a seahorse -- the largest

>species can get a couple of feet long.  But the pictures I have don't

>resemble the seahorse ... so there we are.

>


Clark, I tried to e-mail you, but it bounced.


Would it be possible to post these GIFs to Usenet?  Maybe some of the

bio-scientist types who read Usenet could identify it if it is terrestrial.


Where, BTW, did the original video come from, and why do some people claim that

it is of an alien specimen?


Jon Noring


-- 

=============================================================================

| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |

| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |

| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |

| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |

=============================================================================

"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average

coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,

nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua

From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb28.012427.27115@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

Date: 28 Feb 92 01:24:27 GMT

References: <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com> <1992Feb26.210311.20023@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb27.064922.2784@csi.compuserve.com>

Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!

Lines: 44

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4720 sci.space:27144 sci.skeptic:21126 alt.paranormal:4530


dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:


|>Josh,


|>You really want me to give you odds?


yup.


|>Well, to answer your question, I HAVE seen both of the images...(and in 

|>addition, the images from a book called "The Face on Mars" that I picked

|>up in the library.  If you want to see enhanced images, THAT book has 

|>images that are INCREDIBLY over-enhanced.)


I have considered that possibility; I consider it real in fact.


|>And the odds that I would give you AGAINST this particular photo being

|>a pre-shaped, alien artifact are along the order of 10,000,000 to 1.


OK! in that case I will bet $1 against your $10,000,000. Now, even though you

can afford compu$erve's fees, I somehow doubt that you have ten megabucks

that you are willing to gamble with, so why don't we make it 1000 to 1 and

I'll put up $10 aganist your $10,000. I am totally serious.


|>The largest doundation for that being, simply put, that they just don't LOOK

|>like they HAVE to be an artifact.  Granted, there is a SLIM possiblity

|>that it COULD be non-natural in origin, but there is NO significant evidence

|>that I can see in either of the photos that indicates that there is symmetry

|>between the two sides, or that the effect is anything more than just

|>shadows.


I don't know that they are artifacts. I think the possibility is strong 

enough (and the belief among some people that they are *not* artifacts is

strong enough) that I am willing to gamble small amounts of cash money against

large amounts.


|>Try this, try looking at the images from a completely different angle,

|>say, upside down or sideways,and THEN try to see if theere appears to be a

|>complete symmetry formed.


what convinces me that there is something interesting is all the formations

taken as a whole; especially the 'straight wall' on the crater splash

pattern, but the whole complex of formations.


josh

Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!apple!netcomsv!mork!anson

From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Richard Russell Sightings

Keywords: Russell

Message-ID: <rsnhz-janson@netcom.com>

Date: 28 Feb 92 03:10:52 GMT

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Lines: 14


Does anyone have any info on the sightings Georgia congressman Richard

Russell reported during a visit to the USSR in the 1950s?


I'm trying to gather some info on UFO sightings by "famous" people

from the [clap-clap-clap] Great State of Georgia (apologies to the 

[clap-clap-clap] Great State of Texas).


-- 


Anson Kennedy

Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)


                  "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'"

                                      -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!masscomp!peora!tarpit!bilver!dona

From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,alt.conspiracy

Subject: FILE: Orvotron Newsletter for Mar-April 92 - Part 1

Summary: Still Further info on "Asteroid to Hit the Earth"...

Keywords: Earth Changes,True Meaning behind the 11: 11 "doorway", Asteroid

Message-ID: <1992Feb28.054622.15959@bilver.uucp>

Date: 28 Feb 92 05:46:22 GMT

Followup-To: Alt.alien.visitors

Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL

Lines: 524

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4722 talk.religion.newage:9523 alt.conspiracy:12673




----------------------------------------------------------------------

*DISCLAIMER* *DISCLAIMER* *DISCLAIMER* *DISCLAIMER* *DISCLAIMER*


This information is presented for your perusal and is a continuation 

of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The

content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal

views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims

represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts

at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it

yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will

leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-)

                                                          

As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups

exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp    

in mail. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------


This is the latest Orvotron Newsletter...thought some of you might

find it interesting..



        

                                    ORVOTRON

                     Bimonthly Newsletter, March\April, 1992

                 The East Coast Power Point, Kortron and Solinus

                   EMail Address: Fido Net Address 1:379/703 

                            Please send us your input

        

             Greetings  Ascending Star People.  Perhaps you have wondered 

        why I begin each writing in this manner.   I do this to emphasize 

        that Homo sapiens were originally seeded on Earth by beings  from 

        the stars as a physical manifestation of God.  The object of this 

        was  to  evolve a species in physical form in order to  seed  the 

        expanding  universes  with that image.  Variations on  the  theme 

        were  created when other beings subdued and then mixed  with  the 

        original  root  race, thereby tampering with the  original  seed.  

        These  beings realized that their own genetic blueprint  did  not 

        enable  them  to access the Living Library which  had  been  pro-

        grammed  into our ancestors' DNA/RNA in the Earth Garden  experi-

        ment.  

        

             I realize  this  is not an original statement, but by making 

        it I want to convey our support of the other sources of truth who  

        are  putting  out this same message to  awakening  humanity.  The 

        Pliedian  material makes this same reference to our origins.   We 

        recommend reviewing Barbara Marciniak's material as she  presents 

        this  information  in a clear manner which "rings  true"  to  us.  

        (Her  audio  cassettes can be obtained through  Bold  Connections 

        Unlimited,  P.  O. Box 6521, Raleigh, NC  27628.)  For  the  same 

        reason we  recommend Virginia Essene's (Ed.) book New Cells,  New 

        Bodies,  NEW  LIFE!.  (Spiritual Education  Endeavors  Publishing 

        Co., 1556 Halford Ave., #288, Santa Clara, CA  95051.) 

        

             Many  changes now occurring are affecting the planet and all 

        life.  Those who fear change are growing confused and frightened.  

        This  also  applies  to those in control as they  are  forced  to 

        rethink many of their plans within plans; rapid changes are  also 

        affecting their projected goals and outcomes.

        

             Our research indicates that there is a plan to separate star 

        people  from the rest of humanity in an effort to keep them  from 

        informing the masses of the many changes now affecting Earth  and 

        her inhabitants.  As we become more aware of these plans we  must 

        continue to hold our ground without fear and know we are here  to 

        inform,  to help all humanity - the good, the bad and  the  ugly. 

        Fear  always seems to override common sense,  rational  responses 

        and  correct action of a higher order which could  produce  abun-

        dance, peace, harmony and freedom for all.  The greatest fear  of 

        those in control is the loss of that control and this is the true 

        reason  they do not seek peaceful solutions, or truly accept  the 

        Higher  Order  - The One God.  Many of you may believe  that  the 

        American government is still "One nation under God" as our  fore-

        fathers deemed it, but this is constantly overshadowed by  hidden 

        agendas,  and covert secret actions that are not of God, but  are 

        of greed and deceit to control the masses.  

        

             What  the controllers don't seem to realize yet is what each 

        of  us in service are.  We are ambassadors of The Light  here  to 

        help  the  masses  AND the controllers out of  the  mess  they've 

        created and to help ALL assimilate the many changes ahead.  Their 

        plans within plans are causing problems within problems but  soon 

        the  planners will understand their pursuits are dead ends of  no 

        worth.   Unfortunately, if they continue on their present  course 

        without seeking help from the Forces of Light they will  increase 

        fear and hopelessness  that will further discredit them as  lead-

        ers in the eyes of those they control.

        

             The first  steps  the controllers must take in order for any 

        accord to take place are honesty, compassion and a real intent to 

        act for the well being of ALL life on Earth.  The re-creation  of 

        lies  upon  lies must stop.  Their choice must be to  come  clean 

        with  the public regarding what is really taking place  and  why.  

        Continuing to hide the whole truth will only result in an already 

        confused public eventually being future shocked into reality when 

        the real facts finally do surface.  It is far better for them  to 

        tell  the  public what is really happening  than  to  wait  until 

        their secret plans fail.  

        

             What many  of  those  who are creating the secret and covert 

        plans do not yet understand is that like attracts like - the root 

        of their dilemma.  The plans they are creating for the future  of 

        mankind  are based upon ignorance.  This lack of  knowledge  (the 

        absence  of understanding the love base) leaves a void  and  thus 

        room  for  negative reality to creep in  creating  extremes  they 

        cannot  even  fathom.   In order to prevent the  extreme  in  the 

        shifts coming  (when positive energy reachs the level of overcom-

        ing  resistance) at some point acceptance must enter in,  balance 

        then will occur. Resistance only creates hard change to all  con-

        cerned. 

        

             If  they continue to implement plans which might destroy all 

        life on Earth it will not be tolerated by the ascended beings who 

        are standing by in case of such an emergency.  This is being done 

        to protect the awakening masses but not necessarily those  think-

        ing  they have power over others.  Any action against  the  light 

        workers will only result in a state of hopelessness being created 

        for  those  thinking they can destroy what is not theirs  to  de-

        stroy.  We  are independent overseers of massive change  here  to 

        assist as a private group not under anyone's control or jurisdic-

        tion.   Judgment day is real and their belief that they  will  be 

        spared  is false.  What is coming will spare no one!  So, I  ask, 

        why not rethink everything now and prevent future dilemmas? 

        

             What's coming  can  be  dealt with, but only by the opposite 

        polarities  merging into a balanced unity.  Individuals must  not 

        only want a world based on Love, but they must also choose to act 

        in  a loving manner toward that global goal.  Only then will  the 

        understanding  that we are all ONE result in the peaceful  trans-

        formation  of Earth.  Each individual or group has to  make  this 

        choice. 

        

             Light workers  born in service to Earth have watched a  dete-

        riorating  situation  continually worsen.  Once awakened  to  our 

        mission  of love it becomes even more imperative that  we  become 

        actively  aware of the power structure of the negative  polarity. 

        We  must  become more informed about our own personal  power  and 

        learn  how giving it away to the negative reality only  gives  it 

        more  power.   The sheer act of allowing another to  decide  your 

        fate  is  not a positive step, especially when  those  who  would 

        control  are  not honest about their motivations or  plans.   The 

        world they have created is based on deceit and lies and is now in 

        its  death throws.  Negativity begets negativity,  which  creates 

        fear and hopelessness which may result in the annihilation of all 

        life.   Personal power based in Love not Fear is the champion  of 

        this age.  Do you understand?

        

             Those who merely sit on the side-lines waiting for others to 

        create  positive  change are just as guilty as those  who  create 

        negativity through their dishonesty.   It is necessary that  each 

        individual  become involved, to take responsibility  through  ac-

        tion,   otherwise power is still being given to those  who  would 

        potentially use it for their own personal gain rather than in the 

        best  interests of all life on the planet.  The  continuation  of 

        this  kind of action (or non-action) merely results in "what  you 

        see  is  what you get".  Passive, uninvolved  behavior  regarding 

        cause and effect will only lead one to be cleansed along with all 

        the rest that is out of harmony.  

        

             The choice  to become  informed and involved must be made on 

        an  individual basis.  It is not necessary to wait for a  govern-

        ment  or  anyone else to create a better world first.   You,  the 

        individual, must make this choice, accept full responsibility for 

        the negative and then take action toward the creation of positive 

        love-based changes on Earth.  The line is drawn between those who 

        would  join others to create a better world and those who  either 

        through  complacency, ignorance or fear give away their power  to 

        help create positive changes.  

        

             The bonding  effect  of our Father's love will protect those 

        who  serve in that love.  Remember nothing on this Earth or  from 

        without  can stop the positive changes now coming to  Earth.  God 

        helps  those  who help themselves and your actions  and  thoughts 

        will determine your worth in God's Kingdom as it is reestablished 

        on Earth. The Meek will not inherit the Earth if they do not help 

        themselves  and others change the problems which are  outside  of 

        THE DIVINE PLAN OF GOD.

        

                 ( What Can You Do to Prepare for the Future? ) 

        

             God  helps those  who  help  themselves.  The  fence sitters 

        must decide to get off the fence and then pour their energy  into 

        helping  (in  any way possible) all those who have  struggled  to 

        create foundations for positive change.  One must set an  example 

        through  involvement, putting aside personal ego-based  conflicts 

        and  focusing  instead  on the work at hand.  Each of  us  has  a 

        contribution to make no matter how small or insignificant it  may 

        seem.  One step forward will lead to the next as more people  see 

        they  too can create the changes which will transform Earth  into 

        the garden and living library it was designed to be. 

        

             Reading  these words may be inspiring, but without following 

        them  with actions of some sort one remains on the same fence  or 

        in  the same boat as those who put their energy into  controlling 

        others.   The choice is to act or to be victimized through  inac-

        tion.  "I can't change anything" is a blatant lie one accepts  as 

        truth.  The history books are filled with examples of individuals 

        whose  endeavors created world change.  Each of us has this  same 

        power  but  it must be claimed and then used.  Excuses  for  non-

        action  are  nothing more than idle inferiority  complexes.  This 

        power  loss  is  created through well placed lies  by  those  who 

        control  through  mass brainwashing.  This is based on  the  fact 

        that  they know that with the power of truth goes the freedom  to 

        act.   This  is exactly what they don't want you to  know.   What 

        they  want is complacent slaves who believe the controllers  have 

        all the power and therefore allow them to make all the decisions.  

        BARF!!!!

        

             You CAN  Wake-Up  and reclaim  your sovereignty but you must 

        make the choice to do so and then stick to it!  This year will be 

        a time of profound changes on Earth.  It may  also be a year  for 

        your  activation to awareness or destruction as an ignorant  life 

        form.  The  cards are being dealt as we speak.   The  masters  of 

        deceit  are making plans to take out huge blocks of life  on  the 

        planet.  Eugenics is going on now separating who lives or dies.

        

             You may argue,  "But I Am Not God!   I  cannot  make  change 

        alone."   I say we are all gods representing God's presence  here 

        on Earth.  No one is ever alone.  However, with our abilities  go 

        responsibilities  and  action type decisions that must  be  made.  

        Once  the decision to "hear the voice within" is made,  one  must 

        take  the  time to listen.  The Bible reference to this  is:   Be 

        Silent,  Be Still,  Hear the Voice of GOD.  Action then  must  be 

        taken  to do what that voice tells you.  The rest is a  piece  of 

        cake.  The voice of God is your real power as an individual.   It 

        will  guide  and direct you to your part in  Creating  Heaven  On 

        Earth.  How many times must I repeat this very simple truth?

         

            My  life  has been  one of constant impossibility from anoth-

        er's  point of view.  Those close to me see miracles happen on  a 

        constant  basis.  But I must confess none of it would  have  been 

        possible  without  the  blessing of this contact  with  my  inner 

        voice, which I call God or Spirit.  Each of you have this ability 

        and it is the root of your personal power. YOU MUST USE IT!

        

             To follow  another's  way is a waste of what little time and 

        opportunity  you have left.  During the cycled events  ahead  you 

        can  open to your inner voice and be guided to safety to live  to 

        see the New Age.  This experience will come without loss of  your 

        physical  vehicle - your bodies.  You must open and go within  to 

        understand and use this guided knowledge for your survival in all 

        changes coming to Earth.  Do You understand?


                      ( Following the Champion of the Day )

        

             We have observed that when a new champion appears many flock 

        to that individual to support and follow without questioning  the 

        goals beyond what appears as the obvious.  The obvious may not be 

        truth and without first consulting their personal inner  guidance 

        this following behavior often creates situations in which support 

        actually shifts away from the group aspect which is our true goal 

        as volunteers on Earth assignment.  Granted these diversions will 

        eventually be seen for what they are and result in a lesson  then 

        being learned, but the loss of time and focus on the real  issues 

        at hand can not be replaced.  Diversions create opportunities for 

        the dark  lords to further destroy Earth and her life forms. 

        

             You  can  be  associated  with  anyone's project  you choose 

        but always remember your inner guidance is your only real  direc-

        tion  and  safety net when it comes to decisions  regarding  your 

        place of allegiance.  The future of Homo sapiens on Earth must be 

        prepared for now and dreamy thoughts and actions based on  ficti-

        tious  ideas  will  not help when the tides rise  and  the  Earth 

        trembles.  My guidance and that of others indicate this year will 

        bring  many  of your worst fears about Earth  Changes  into  your 

        reality.      

        

             We have  received information that the White Brotherhood and 

        other ascended beings located in obscure isolated areas known  as 

        the  secret  cities,  etc. have evacuated these  places  for  the 

        safety of higher ground in the mountains.  This took place world-

        wide.  Does that tell you anything about the times ahead?

        

             The  acquisition of communal land in places of safety should 

        be  a prominent point of focus for those who wish to survive  the 

        times  ahead and build foundations for the New.  To just  believe 

        you  will be in the right place at the right time is not  enough.  

        If  you are being told through your inner guidance to prepare  in 

        this manner it is imperative that you begin in earnest now rather 

        than flocking to the nearest or best sounding "leader" who  would 

        take you, your money and your energy down fantasy lane.

        

             We are still  aware of  several  thousand  acres of pristine 

        organically  farmed land that is available and could  accommodate 

        hundreds.   However, without the expressed interest and focus  of 

        those  who  share a vision of such a community we are  unable  to 

        move  forward.   We will not manifest this by ourselves,  but  we 

        will  assist a group in whatever way we can.  We have the  advan-

        tage  of over twenty-five years of combined knowledge of  working 

        with this kind of land and have gathered a great deal of informa-

        tion on alternate energy, housing and farming which we are  will-

        ing to share.  We have informed many of you through our  newslet-

        ter  and in individual conversations that the land is there,  but 

        so far no one has gone beyond the talking stage.  Let us know  if 

        you are interested in pursuing this as "time is short".  

        

                       ( Kay Ra's Channeling for 1992 ) 

             

             We recently  received  the following  channeling from Kay Ra 

        (Starlight  Farm  Newsletter,  Rt. 1, Box 159-B,  Round  Top,  TX 

        78954) and include it for your benefit because we have known  for 

        some  time that an asteroid as big as a city is headed  our  way.  

        This  is  not the same asteroid we've been mentioning that  is  a 

        reptilian  ship in disguise (due in around 1995-6) but  one  that 

        CNN  cable news alerted the public about several months ago.   We 

        do  not have cablevision on the mountain but several of  you  saw 

        this  announcement  and  called us about it.  We  feel  Kay  Ra's 

        message  is of prime importance and if heeded perhaps  many  will 

        make efforts to establish safe havens for the near future.

        

             The Phoenix (meteor),  the  Survival/Rescue, the New Govern-

        ment.     The Phoenix will strike the Earth in the  southern-most 

        area  of  the Atlantic Ocean between the lower regions  of  South 

        America and Africa - closer to Africa.  The arrival of the  Phoe-

        nix is the initial step of the change or shift of the Planet  and 

        will  occur  potentially at the end of 1992 or the  beginning  of 

        1993.   (We are very much aware that time has little  meaning  in 

        Spirit; so we give the time-frames with this in mind.) 

        

             The meteor will  correct  the  wobble  or tilt of the Planet 

        which  is now in existence and will create major continental  and 

        oceanic shifts.  In the years following the impact, well into the 

        next century, the most important shiftings will occur.  Many low-

        lying  areas are swept away, especially along the  Atlantic  sea-

        boards.  The rising waters will also affect the Mediterranean Sea 

        and  the Baltic Sea, though these are somewhat  protected.   High 

        wind velocities will affect all the Earth.

        

             The  east  coast  of  the  US  will be affected.  There will 

        be  a  period of 12 to 24 hours after impact  and  oceanic  floor 

        changes before the flooding and tidal waves occur.  The  flooding 

        will  affect most of Florida and the area between the  ocean  and 

        the  mountains in the seaboard states.  Areas which are 2,000  to 

        5,000 feet are considered safe.

        

             The Gulf  coast shoreline  will be somewhat protected at the 

        initial stages because of the Caribbean islands, but the Matagor-

        da  and  New Madrid fault lines will be greatly affected  by  the 

        impact.  These faults will begin their splitting, and much  ocean 

        water will invade the Mississippi River.

        

             Houston  will be greatly affected.  Many glass buildings and 

        the  tallest buildings will fall.  The central part of the  city, 

        however,  that  which is called "inside the  Loop",  will  remain 

        above water for some months to a year.

        

             The changes  will  bring  about the evacuations by the Space 

        Brothers,  envisioned by many, of those who are prepared  or  are 

        guided to the evacuation points.  These survivors will be  helped 

        by those who have chosen to become "ground commanders", who  have 

        chosen to remain behind for this mission.  The survivors will  be 

        taken  by  means of interdimensional change into  the  ships  and 

        deposited  in  places of safety which have been chosen  by  their 

        souls.   These  places  are  already-established  communities  or 

        cities  in  the central areas of a continent which  will  not  be 

        affected by earthquakes.

        

             There will be  thousands  and  thousands  who  will heed the 

        earlier warning by scientists about the in-coming meteor or their 

        own  premonitions.  They will flee the low-lying areas without  a 

        destination  or  point  of sanctuary  consciously  chosen.   This 

        turmoil will create first a shifting of the Federal Government to 

        the "centralized Washington", that is to say, which is in Kansas.  

        It  will attempt to continue the government beyond  the  destruc-

        tion.  However, the suspension of human rights and of the Consti-

        tution  will be called (in much the same way as during the  Great 

        Depression).

        

             Because the  government  will fail to help the people, there 

        will  be he who will rise up as leader.  Though  the  predominate 

        government  (in  Kansas) will begin as early as the turn  of  the 

        century, that which is the community government, those which  are 

        places of safety, will become stronger and more authoritative.

        

             The monetary  system,  as  you know it, will end even before 

        the centralized government.  Almost immediately, there will  come 

        a bartering system - "I have what you need; you have what I need.  

        Let  us trade."  Where money does exist, there will be  hardship; 

        there will be greed still, so that the sooner the monetary system 

        as is now present ends, the more quickly communities can  congre-

        gate, harmonize, and balance with one another.

        

             Individual  and  Planetary  Ascension. Individual  ascension 

        is already taking place and will continue throughout the  Planet.  

        There are those whose bodies are shifting well into Fourth Dimen-

        sion  and also into Fifth Dimension levels.  The ones who  choose 

        to  remain with the Planet after the Earth Changes will be  those 

        who have chosen to individually ascend.  There will, then, be  no 

        more hindrances or resistance within the Planet.

          

             The Planet  is  already moving into the Fourth Dimension and 

        as a part of this has agreed to receive the Phoenix into  Herself 

        as  a  means of Her transition.  The individual choices  to  move 

        into Fourth Dimension are already underway.  You have  personally 

        chosen  the  Ascension Process as have most of  the  participants 

        with  you.  Everyone who is identifying himself/herself with  the 

        secure and safe places of the Planet is choosing to stay with the 

        Planet and serve Her into the next age.

        

             The  Planet is seeking the Fifth Dimensional level as a part 

        of Its destiny to become a star/sun.  This will occur in total in 

        about 1,000 years or about 3,000 A.D.  This is a shift completely 

        out  of that which is acknowledged around you now and  into  that 

        which is light - light in form, but only light or energy.

        

             

             Supplies/Commerce/Banking.  The chemicals applied to and for 

        the groceries are those which many are finding abhorrent.  There-

        fore,  the  concept of herbal, vegetable, and  fruit  gardens  is 

        coming into being.

             

             As for stock  or amounts  in grocery stores, this will cease 

        when the lines of communication and transportation end, especial-

        ly  before the turn of the century.  There is potential for  food 

        supplies  to come to a close in two to three years and  that  the 

        garden  will  be the support of the people (as were  the  Victory 

        gardens of World War II)>

        

             There need  be  no  fear of gardens or food sources becoming 

        contaminated.   The  objective among the higher or  more  refined 

        dimensions  such  as  the Devic (plant) kingdoms  and  the  Space 

        Brothers is that intention to keep the so-called survivors alive, 

        to  nurture  and  cherish them for they are  the  Planet's  human 

        kingdom reborn!  Therefore, know that your food supplies will  be 

        guarded  by the greater beings and that you will remain  nurtured 

        and nourished.

        

             The Federal  government  will  attempt to control the people 

        through  money and through credit, etc.  Even though it  is  much 

        inhibited in doing so, the government's attempt will be  approxi-

        mately  into the next century.  However, the banking  and  credit 

        systems, their sources, their power and so on, will be broken due 

        to  the  lack of transportation and communication.  Look  to  the 

        destruction of the present monetary system almost immediately and 

        the  barter  system  taken up.  The objective is  to  create  the 

        community  as  the new government, to create trust  and  lack  of 

        greed.

        

             A new  system  of finance  will occur in 20 to 30 years from 

        the time of the original destruction, but it will NOT be based on 

        a central or organized banking system nor upon precious metals or 

        banking  reserves.  It will be based upon the individual's  means 

        of support, upon a more balanced idea of helping one another.

        

             The Present Location  of the Phoenix.   It  has entered into 

        the Solar System.  It is not a part of the Asteroid Belt, but  is 

        an  asteroid  or that which will function as  an  asteroid.   The 

        present angle is creating a drawing toward the sun.  However, the 

        projection  for  it is that of colliding with  this  Planet.   In 

        other words, the timing is such that as it hurdles itself  toward 

        the  sun  or is drawn by the magnetism of the sun, it  will  meet 

        with this Planet in Her orbit by design as well as by accident.

        

             The  meteor  or asteroid  was  and IS  planned  or  designed 

        because  this  Planet has requested this collision  to  occur  to 

        bring  about Her desire for change.  It is being maintained  and, 

        when  necessary, guided by the Space Brothers  (Pleiadians  under 

        Ashtar's command) and others of the Council who are in service to 

        this Planet and to this Solar System.  Know that the Phoenix  is, 

        so far, in the proper alignment and timing for such a strike.

        

                             ***********************      

             So now you have yet another new scenario to hash about.  For 

        the Astronomy buffs, the asteroid's number is CS1992. My question 

        is (knowing this newsletter is read by many thousands around  the 

        world who never respond in any way) - What will it do to bring us 

        closer  together as one family?  Will you know when the  asteroid 

        is  close?  In the past the government and media  have  announced 

        such  potential disasters only after they have passed, or not  at 

        all.   Other  alternatives (for those who are  not  connected  to 

        their  inner guidance) are the computer bulletin  board  networks 

        like  ours  addressing these concerns.  What if these  no  longer 

        exist  due to lack of real support?  It has been  estimated  that 

        the  safety  margin  for evacuation to higher  ground  is  twelve 

        hours.   Will  you  have time to reach places  of  safety?   What 

        preparations  are being made to have food available to  feed  the 

        ones  who  make it to high ground?  Do you  think  those  already 

        there  could  feed  large groups of people?   Ask  yourself  some 

        questions.   It may very well affect you.  It never hurts  to  be 

        prepared, otherwise swimming lessons may be a good alternative.

        

             All   else  put   aside  here is yet  another  reason  in  a 

        diverse world with many pit falls affecting your survival.  Know-

        ing the things that are affecting your survival that are not well 

        publicized may pay off by opening you up to the experience  lead-

        ing to Eternal Life.  Read On! 

        

             The following article  was  taken  from  the February/March, 

        1991 issue of Nexus Magazine.  This is an Australian  publication 

        which  we highly recommend for updated information on  many  "New 

        Age"  topics.   A  one year subscription (6 issues)  is  $30  and 

        should be made payable to Nexus Magazine, C/- P. O. Mapleton, Qld 

        4560 Australia.

        

                            ( The Photon Belt Story )

        

             Is our solar system about to enter a cosmic 'cloud', as part 

        of a 12,000 year cycle?  We present this obscure but popular 1981 

        article for you to decide.

        

             People all over  the  world  are  grasping, reaching out for 

        little pieces of knowledge, enlightenment, hope for the future of 

        their  children in a world of growing degradation,  drugs,  rape, 

        murder, etc.  The Prophets of doom preach of physical horror  and 

        annihilation.  It is like a great vortex, a great sucking spiral, 

        ever downward, blackness, despair.

        

             You  look  upwards,  can  see the light at the top and grasp 

        and  claw  your way to get out of that ever  quickening  pull  of 

        despair.  The truth sometimes is so simple that we look past  it, 

        ignore  it and try to find a much more complicated  answer,  when 

        all  the time, it is there, staring you right in the  face,  your 

        passport out of the vortex into the future.

        

-----------Continued in Bimonthly Newsletter, March\April, 1992 Part TWO--------


Don


-- 

-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?

Internet: dona@bilver.uucp  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM

UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"

Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!masscomp!peora!tarpit!bilver!dona

From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,alt.conspiracy

Subject: FILE: Orvotron Newsletter for Mar-April 92 - Part 2

Summary: Still Further info on "Asteroid to Hit the Earth"...

Keywords: Earth Changes,True Meaning behind the 11: 11 "doorway", Asteroid

Message-ID: <1992Feb28.055128.16097@bilver.uucp>

Date: 28 Feb 92 05:51:28 GMT

Followup-To: Alt.alien.visitors

Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL

Lines: 536

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4723 talk.religion.newage:9524 alt.conspiracy:12674




-------------Bimonthly Newsletter, March\April, 1992 Part TWO-------------------



             It all starts  with  a  little  atom and the group of little 

        electrons  which orbit around it.  English physicist Paul  Adrain 

        Maurice  Dirac,  said that for each type of  particle,  an  anti-

        particle will exist.

             

             In 1932, Carl  David  Anderson  discovered the anti-electron 

        and  called  it a positron.  In 1956, the anti-proton  and  anti-

        neutron were discovered.

        

             When an  anti-particle is formed, it comes into existence in 

        a  universe  of ordinary particles, and it is only  a  matter  of 

        time....a  fraction  of a second...before it meets  and  collides 

        with an electron.  The charges cancel, the total mass of the pair 

        is converted into energy in the form of PHOTONS.  This offers   a 

        new  and  unprecedented  powerful  source  of energy.  The PHOTON 

        is about to become your way of life in the very near future.

        

             A  PHOTON  BAND was  discovered  in  outer  space in 1961 by 

        means  of satellite born instruments.  We will now move onto  the 

        PLEIADES....The Seven Sisters...an estimated 400 light years from 

        here.   This  group of stars is the basis of  mythology  in  many 

        countries....the  Greek  Gods,  Australian   Dreamtime....Chinese 

        mythology.  To quote from just a few Astronomers....

        

             Jose  Comas  Sola made a  special study  of the Pleiades and 

        discovered  that they form a system, of which our sun is part  of 

        that  system,  and also several other suns, and  all  apparently, 

        have their own Planetary systems.

        

             Freidrich Wilhelm  Bessel  showed that members of this group 

        had a proper motion of 5.5 seconds of arc per century in the same 

        direction.

        

             Isaac Asimov..."We can  assume  that  all  the stars in this 

        cluster are the same chronological age."

        

             Edmund Halley, studying  the  position  of  the stars, noted 

        that  at least three stars were not in the spots recorded by  the 

        Greeks.   The difference was so great that it was  unlikely  that 

        either the Greeks or Halley could have made a mistake.  It seemed 

        very clear to Halley that these stars moved within a system.

        

             Paul Otto Hesse  also  made  a special study of this system, 

        of  which  our sun is a part, and discovered, at  absolute  right 

        angles  to  the movements of the suns, a PHOTON BELT  or  MANASIC 

        RING,  a  phenomena which scientists have not yet  been  able  to 

        reproduce with laboratory experiments.

        

             It takes our sun 24,000 years to complete an orbit, (of this 

        system) and as seen by the diagram, it is divided into  sections.  

        The 10,000 years of darkness is the period as we know it now, day 

        time,  night  time,  the 2,000 year period of  all  light,  again 

        10,000 years of darkness and 2,000 years of light.

        

             WE  ARE  NOW POSED TO ENTER THIS PHOTON BELT.   It is inevi-

        table....between  now  and the end of this century -  but  it  is 

        inevitable!   We have completed the full circle and are  back  at 

        the  beginning.  It is described in detail in your bible, by  all 

        books on mythology, by Nostradamus, and by modern day scientists.

        

             To  quote our scientists....If the Earth enters  first  into 

        the  PHOTON BELT, the sky will appear to be on fire, but  be  as-

        sured, this is cold light, so there will be no heat.  If the  sun 

        enters  first, there will be immediate darkness, which,  computed 

        our  speed through space, will last 110 hours.   The  interaction 

        between the Solar Radiation and the PHOTON BELT will make the sky 

        look as if it is full of falling stars.  As the Earth enters this 

        radiation belt, all molecules will become excited, all atoms will 

        change,  things will become luminescent, THERE WILL  BE  CONSTANT 

        LIGHT.   There can be no darkness, not within the  deepest  cave, 

        not  within the human body.  A quick look at  your  bible...."All 

        the  stars  will  fall  from  the sky and  the  sky  will  be  no 

        more....".

        

             It is expected that the rotation of the Earth may diminish a 

        little.  Because of the reduced Solar Radiation, the  temperature 

        is  expected  to become cooler and the ice caps are  expected  to 

        extend  to about latitude 40 in both hemispheres....your  history 

        books will tell you that at least five ICE AGES have been record-

        ed,  and  they seem to last about 2,000 years.  It may  be  noted 

        that world communication centers, fixed satellites, US bases  and 

        experimental  sights are within the 'safe zone'. Design or  acci-

        dent?

             

             What about you?  There  are  three  types  of  people in our 

        cosmos...corporeal, like us, solid, human;....atmospherean,  also 

        solid   to  a  point,  but  the  molecular  structure  is   quite 

        different;....ethereans,  no  mass  at all.  When  we  enter  the 

        Photon  Belt, a normal healthy person is expected to feel a  jolt 

        similar  to putting your finger in a live light socket,  and  the 

        transformation  will be complete...you have just changed  from  a 

        Corporeal  person to an Atmospherean person....("and ye shall  be 

        changed  to  immortality without the separation of death  in  the 

        twinkling of an eye.")

        

             Theologians have written at great depth on Bible characters, 

        and assert that they have lived in this period of light.  The sky 

        and   atmosphere   was   different  and   apparently   it   never 

        rained....Nostradamus, in his quatrain about the end of the world 

        as  we know it, in 1999...."and it will rain no more, but  in  40 

        years, all will be normal."

        

             In  aboriginal  mythology  it is  said...."Men were  differ-

        ent to what they are now....we had a bridge to the stars..."   In 

        all their stories if they fell out with the Chief or Elder,  they 

        fled  to  the  sky.  So did the Greeks.  It  appears  that  space 

        travel is simple within the photon belt.

        

             The  year 1962  was  the year that we came within the influ-

        ence of the Photon Belt.  1962 was a year of great UFO  activity.  

        Did  we  come within range of space travelers  using  the  Photon 

        Belt?   As we hurtle closer and closer, will more UFO's  look  us 

        over  before our rebirth into the years of LIGHT.  It would  seem 

        that this is already happening.

        

             Erich Von Daniken, when visiting  South  America, discovered 

        a  tribe with an object given to them by Sky People thousands  of 

        years  ago.   They were told to keep it clean and "when  it  hums 

        like  thousands of swarms of bees, we will return."   It  started 

        humming  softly three years ago (ie 1978).  A cosmic alarm  clock 

        alerting us to the coming of the light?

        

             It would seem  some  civilizations may live permanently with 

        The  Light.   When  our Planet leaves this period  of  light  and 

        returns  to the 10,000 years of darkness, do THEY return  to  the 

        LIGHT  and  wait our eventual re-entry.  It  seems  likely.   The 

        Mayans departed hurriedly with the message also of their  return, 

        which  scholars  say is now imminent.  Rock carvings  around  the 

        world show drawings similar to the system of Alcione.

        

             Ball lightning...a phenomena about which little is known, is 

        it perhaps little pockets of the Photon Belt?

        

             To  all UFO researchers, these craft always show an interest 

        in  nuclear installations.  What will happen to a reactor  within 

        the  Belt?   I think our scientists are way  out  ahead.   Photon 

        energy  seems to be the energy of the future.  Many  UFO  reports 

        seem  to  indicate Photon rockets  on  experimental  craft..."the 

        headlights were at the back."  The reports at hand indicate slow, 

        cumbersome  craft..but  within the Photon Belt, I think  we  have 

        craft for immediate unlimited space travel.

        

             Because the radiation  of  our  sun  will be modified by the 

        Photon  energy,  is this why our scientists only  pay  small  lip 

        service to the development of solar energy?

        

             Let us think  about our  planet  coming out of the light and 

        into  the darkness.  Aboriginal mythology says "we were cast  out 

        into darkness and were much afraid, so the Gods gave us a Sun  to 

        warm us and a moon to see at night."

        

             If the ice caps  from  within  the  light  years,  then  the 

        increased Solar radiation when leaving the belt must surely  melt 

        the  ice .... Floods.  If it does not rain within this period  of 

        light, it is understandable why Noah was so awed by the sight  of 

        that first rainbow.  The Gilgamesh talks of a great flood, but it 

        was apparently about 10,000 years before Noah's flood.

        

             We have  thought  about our world and the effect on a single 

        person,  but what about humanity as a whole?  It  is  conceivable 

        that  many people will not survive the initial jolt if  they  are 

        not  prepared  for it.  If the ice extends to latitude  40,  that 

        covers half the USA, and most of Europe and Asia.  That is a  lot 

        of  people without a home.  Will they be accepted in other  coun-

        tries?   In a limited space of fertility, will it be possible  to 

        support untold millions?

        

             I think not.

        

             And so tomorrow . . . . . . . . 

        

        (Reprinted  in  Nexus Magazine with  permission  from  Australian 

        International  UFO  Flying Saucer Research Magazine,  #12  August 

        1981)   For more details:  GPO Box 2004, Adelaide. SA 5001.   Ph: 

        (08) 272-3131.)

        

                             ( The Truth of 11:11 )

        

             I cannot be silent on this topic - there are NO doors  being 

        swung  open.   There IS a merging of dimensions as we  go  deeper 

        into  the photon belt.  The pyramid on Stone Mountain was one  of 

        the  devices built to help this process take place. It created  a 

        New  Grid  that was less resistant to this energy coming  in  and 

        through Earth.  Doors are a lot of bunk.  The only DOORS  opening 

        are those in your consciousness to bring you to a new understand-

        ing.  These are natural cycled events that happen  everywhere  in 

        creation  over  and over again.   They are not portals  for  your 

        ascension, but rather paths to opening up to what you really are.  

        

             Many will completely  open  if  they  survive  to the Photon 

        Belt's arrival by taking the time to listen to their inner  guid-

        ance.   This  is a connection to a higher frequency  where  truth 

        exists and where one will fully understand that THOUGHT  creates.  

        When  this knowledge is revealed to each individual then each  of 

        you will no longer need prodding such as mine to create Heaven on 

        Earth.   This will occur because those who make it to this  stage 

        will be on a new Earth minus the Sheep, Shepherds, Fools and Jack 

        Asses  who  were destroying it.  They will know  that  what  they 

        think, they can instantly manifest and they will understand  that 

        God  is Love and will manifest in that love knowing the  opposite 

        experience at that point is behind  them, not wanting to re-expe-

        rience it again.  At this point you will have understood Earth as 

        having been a school to teach you right and wrong as Co-Creators.

        

             All this is  based  on  hooking  you  up to the unused five-

        sixths  of your brain - the double helix, the twelve  strands  of 

        consciousness now awakening as we go deeper into the Photon Light 

        Belt.  It is important that we become fully awake and survive  in 

        order  to  take  the opportunity to become  our  graduated  parts 

        contributing to the expanding universes.  Following another is  a 

        useless  waste  of  time, energy  and  money.   Follow  Spirit!!!  

        That's my say on the 11:11. 

        

                   ( How Do We Spend the Money You Send Us? )

        

             Perhaps you've  wondered  how the  donation and subscription 

        money  you  send is spent.  Last year the vast  majority  of  the 

        donation money went into the building of the pyramid with a small 

        portion  going  to feed those who came through to help  with  the 

        project.   We  also  spend donation money on  the  computer  when 

        professional help is necessary or equipment needs replacing. 

        

              The subscription  money  pays  for the printing and mailing 

        of  the newsletter and the business part of the phone bill  which 

        ranges  from $150 - $200 a month to gather and exchange  informa-

        tion  via the computer and the phone.  Our personal expenses  are 

        paid by our personal income and these expenditures often  include 

        such  items as replacing the hot water heater and water  pump  or 

        cleaning the septic tank which receive considerable use from  the 

        many people who come here.   

        

                  ( Will This Bimonthly Newsletter Continue? )  

        

             With the printing and  mailing of this newsletter the finan-

        cial base we operate on (subscription money) will be used up.  At 

        this  point  our  publication will continue only  if  we  receive 

        enough new subscriptions, resubscriptions or donations to put out 

        the next one.  Up until this point we have not found it necessary 

        to  use donation money to support the newsletter, but the  rising 

        cost  of  researching  information  and  communicating  with  our 

        "extended  family" (i.e. the phone bill) have placed this  little 

        proprietorship  near bankruptcy.   We prefer not to use  donation 

        money to keep the newsletter going, but it is a moot point anyway 

        since we have no donation money in the till. 

        

             This has  been  the  pattern for over four issues but we are 

        at a live or die point now due to the fact that about one-half of 

        our subscribers will soon need to resubscribe.  If you would like 

        to  resubscribe  early in order to alleviate  the  situation,  it 

        would truly be helpful.  If you can't pay the subscription  price 

        all at one time but want to subscribe for the first time we  will 

        work with you on making partial payments.  

        

             We  have done our best on a shoestring for months but now we 

        can  only  continue if your support continues.  Those  souls  who 

        have  been  taking  a free ride by not  subscribing  but  somehow 

        obtaining  a  copy of each issue are some of the  ones  who  have 

        created  this situation.  We know of many groups who  receive  it 

        and then make copies for all the individuals involved.  There  is 

        also  the issue of being able to obtain each newsletter  free  of 

        charge  via  the  computer bulletin board system.   There  is  no 

        remedy  for  either situation except for these  souls  to  become 

        involved by paying for what they receive. 

        

             We could reduce the cost of getting each issue out by elimi-

        nating even more folks from our complimentary list.  We have done 

        several  purges  over the past six months and  have  reduced  the 

        number now sent free to only 35.   This includes exchange  copies 

        for another's publication (networking for information), or copies 

        to those who have stated they want to receive it but simply can't 

        afford to pay anything.  In addition, we send free  "Love Copies" 

        to  people our subscribers recommend or to those who inquire  for 

        the first time.  Perhaps we should charge to receive the  initial 

        copy.   Perhaps we should say "No Money, No Honey" to  those  who 

        say  they  can't  afford to pay $2.50 every  month.   But,  these 

        solutions seem both inhumane and poor business policies to us.

        

             The entire  point for  so many light workers volunteering to 

        incarnate  together,  this time around, was for  support  of  the 

        organizations working to create correct and positive change.   We 

        are all in this together and networking and supporting each other 

        is a MUST!  We hope to hear from you SOON!!

        

                            ( The Information System)

             

             We have  watched  many other dedicated souls in the evolving 

        information network literally go under due to a lack of financial 

        support  for  their  efforts in searching out  and  then  sharing 

        truth.   This often requires many hours on the phone,  using  the 

        computer/modem,   printing costs and postage not to  mention  the 

        many  other expenses incurred to get the news out on a  worldwide 

        basis.   We  would love to be in a position to forward  funds  to 

        those  we  know who are helping the cause of truth at  their  own 

        expense but so far we are just "cutting it" ourselves.

        

             The word is that freedom  of speech is at risk due to legis-

        lation  that  would not only curb it but possibly put a  stop  to 

        even the dissemination of information in newsletters and bulletin 

        boards such as ours. 

        

             Experience  has  shown  us that those who are really working 

        to  spread  truth  are not piling up big bucks  or  taking  trips 

        around  the world; they are staying put and remain accessible  to 

        those who want to know and need help.  These souls get out infor-

        mation  about things few would ever learn about and go,  for  the 

        most  part, completely ignored, underfinanced and receive  criti-

        cism  where thanks are due.  In our opinion these people are  the 

        real  heroes  helping humanity.   We have high  hopes  that  this 

        situation  will  eventually be alleviated by  their  getting  the 

        necessary funding to continue the important work they do.  It  is 

        far  better  that they be a shining portal of truth  than  to  go 

        under  due to lack of support which might prevent you and  others 

        from getting the necessary information that could directly effect 

        YOUR well being.  

             

             Our question is, when will the free riders (those that never 

        subscribe  or donate but look forward to each newsletter  or  new 

        information on the nets and bulletin boards) show their apprecia-

        tion by free will support?   There is so much more that could  be 

        accomplished,  but lack of financial support keeps much on  hold.  

        For instance, we would love to create packets of information that 

        would  provide  background and updated material on  many  of  the 

        issues (political, ecological, health, etc.) we have been gather-

        ing news about.  We have also given a great deal of consideration 

        to  putting  the newsletter out on a monthly basis  in  order  to 

        provide the readers with more current information.  We were  even 

        considering  merging  with others to put out  a  joint  worldwide 

        magazine.

        

             We freely  admit that we cannot do it by ourselves.  Neither 

        can  it  be done by expanding the team then asking them  to  work 

        here  full  time and earn a living elsewhere.  We  have  room  to 

        house additional folks, but their personal expenses must be  met.  

        All those who are in full time service cannot expect to be funded 

        by  windfalls from a few nor should they be expected  to  provide 

        for  everything  from  their personal funds while  in  full  time 

        service.  One solution might be for individuals to pledge  finan-

        cial support on a regular basis.

        

                       ( World Commander Where Are You? )

        

             No takers for World Commander, eh!  Perhaps that means world 

        organizers are now "in" and we would like to support that idea by 

        offering to be a main organizational point for this.  In addition 

        it might be nice to drop all titles, so from now on you can  just 

        call me Kortron.  Our work here has been slowly evolving from  an 

        East Coast Headquarters to one of a more global focus.  As infor-

        mation spreads worldwide we look optimistically to the time  when 

        the many small groups will merge into one planetary team.  We are 

        heartened  that so many are now coming out of their  closets  and 

        are  less afraid to speak out and hopefully, as this group  grows 

        larger, their combined voice will grow more audible and more will 

        then come forward to create a better Earth for all.

        

             Who out there  sees  the  logic  of  World Unification which 

        promotes the idea of a worldwide network working to create  free-

        dom,  truth,  harmony and Love on Earth?   Let us hear  from  you 

        because if you are working toward that end you are already  known 

        by  the  controllers (the Dark Lords) and  associating  with  our 

        network will give you additional support of like-minded people.

        Whatever happens we are all in it up to our necks whether  you're 

        still  "in  hiding" or involved out in the open.   We  need  your 

        help,  input  and your support and we may be able  to  help  you.  

        This is definitely one case of "the more, the merrier".

        

                                 ( The Pyramid )

        

             The pyramid  is  almost insulated and as soon as the weather 

        breaks  in March we plan to start working on it again.  The  out-

        side needs to be sealed against water, the chimney and  fireplace 

        construction  must be completed before we panel and put  flooring 

        inside and there is some landscaping to be done.  Needless to say 

        we need your continued support in order to finish this project so 

        we can get on to others. 

        

             We have  been  pleased with the many requests we have filled 

        for crystals charged with the love energy in the pyramid.  Thanks 

        to  all of you who have shown your support and desire to link  up 

        with the grid from the vortex by purchasing these special stones.  

        The  crystal gridwork is now connected to many places around  the 

        country  but  there are still many exquisite  crystals  left  for 

        those  of you who wish to connect up in this manner.  They  range 

        in price from $20 - $75 and will be individually selected through 

        our inner guidance.

                             Peace and Love, Kortron 

        

                                  ( Sanctuary )      

        

             We have  stated  that  Orvotron is a center for information.  

        We  gather it and exchange it, so our visitors are encouraged  to 

        ask  for  it.  However, it would be impossible to  copy  all  the 

        videos, newsletters or files on and not on Spirit Bulletin  Board 

        in a few short days.  We are simultaneously amused and  irritated 

        by  those who spend countless hours at the stereo trying to  make 

        copies  of the very many cassette tapes to take home  with  them.  

        Amused because it would take months to tape everything; irritated 

        because  this behavior does not support those who are  trying  to 

        market  the  information in order to continue producing  it.   We 

        would  prefer  that folks ask Spirit what they need to  learn  or 

        gain  access to while here, not to be "information  junkies"  and 

        require  everything  in sight.  We feel that would be  much  less 

        stressful  on us and easier for all concerned in the sharing  and 

        the giving, plus cut our equipment maintenance costs.

        

             Nineteen Ninety-Two began  in  an  interesting  fashion here 

        when  two souls appeared unannounced at our door.  They  told  us 

        Spirit had sent them to help us and had spent their last dime  to 

        get  here.  They had no means to support themselves and no  means 

        to  leave.   We were not consulted prior to their arrival  if  we 

        could  provide for them, or if we had any work for them to do  in 

        exchange for room and board.  Knowing that Spirit works in myste-

        rious  ways  and since you never know who will be "an  angel"  we 

        accepted  them even though there was little productive  work  for 

        them beyond insulating the pyramid in freezing weather.

             A month  later we were no longer "gracious hosts", the  cup-

        board  was  nearly  bare and the pyramid was  still  not  totally 

        insulated.   They left in a huff as though there had not  been  a 

        fair  exchange  and we were left scratching our  heads  wondering 

        what kind of angels they were.  As a result of this encounter  we 

        learned  some things and must now insist upon several  courtesies 

        from  any future guests.  The first is PLEASE contact us  in  ad-

        vance.   We prefer to know when we are entertaining visitors  and 

        are most happy when we have a referral from our "extended family"  

        if the guest to be is otherwise unknown to us.  We simply  cannot 

        continue to just open our doors to anyone who is passing  through 

        looking  for a place of sanctuary.  On one hand we would love  to 

        have the place and means to provide this, but on the other we put 

        a  lot in jeopardy by taking folks totally on face value  or  be-

        cause they say Spirit guided them here.        

        

             We are doing  our best to be good hosts but some people have 

        expectations  of  what they will find here and  as  we've  stated 

        previously,  expectations almost always lead to  disappointments. 

        For the must part this is an outside work camp except during  the 

        winter when our time is spent inside trying to catch up on things 

        gone undone during the rest of the year.  We work hard, play hard 

        and  sometimes play at work and work while we  play.   Hopefully, 

        those  who want to stay longer than a day will jump right in  and 

        help with whatever the priority might be - whether it is work  or 

        play.  

        

             We do take  time  to relax  on  occasion and that might very 

        well  happen when we have visitors.  So let it be known  we  have 

        some human vices that are socially unacceptable in some  circles.  

        We eat meat  once or twice a day but usually have plenty of  home 

        grown  organic vegetables to go with it and Kortron drinks a  few 

        beers  now and then.   One particularly offensive person  enjoyed 

        referring to our meat consumption as "eating dead animals"  while 

        he  gorged himself on vegetables we provided and cooked  for  him 

        straight  from  our garden.  We have noticed that  many  who  are 

        obviously put out by these indulgences because they believe it is 

        bad  for our health are in poor physical condition  themselves  - 

        they are overweight, out of shape and have a hard time walking up 

        the  hill to the pyramid.  Others seemingly find everything  here 

        to their liking until we say it's time to go to work then sudden-

        ly  that  trip to town is of utmost importance.  Our way  to  en-

        lightenment at Orvotron is to chop wood and haul water. So PLEASE 

        don't  arrive with only high heels and white outfits to  wear  if 

        you want to spend time with us.  We are not running a "resort".   

        

             Speaking about  what some  entities  put into their bodies I 

        have to say we are amazed at the variety of "health foods"  which 

        come  with our guests.  We wonder what people will do when  their 

        seaweed  and bottles of supplements from the health  food  stores 

        are  no longer available.  These same entities rarely  know  any-

        thing  about  the nutritious editable foods to be  found  in  the 

        woods  or  others with medicinal qualities.  They  know  next  to 

        nothing  about growing and storing vegetables from the  looks  of 

        their long, manicured fingernails and some seem to get upset when 

        I prefer to be in the garden than to talk enlightenment.   One of 

        the  neatest seminars we have had was an "herb walk"  around  the 

        property and we would love to host another.  

        

             By no  means  am  I trying to indicate that everyone who has 

        visited us over the course of the past two years is an ungrateful 

        laggard.   I  just needed to do a little  complaining,  a  little 

        clearing,  before Spring and the rush of visitors  begins  again.  

        We enjoy having guests and understand the importance of  network-

        ing.  However, our time must be divided between interaction  with 

        guests, obtaining and sharing information and accomplishing  work 

        in  the rhythm of the seasons here.  When it's time to  plant  we 

        must  take  the opportunity to do so even if we would  rather  be 

        sitting on the porch talking with our guests.  For the most  part 

        folks  are  willing to get involved while they  are  here.   What 

        continues to surprise us is that many leave here loaded down with 

        information  and  voicing support of our efforts  but  apparently 

        don't  share  what they have learned and often never  contact  us 

        again.  Our hope is that the "doers" will come more often in  the 

        future and the fence sitters will rapidly awaken to their part in 

        creating Heaven on Earth.

                         With Love in the Light, SolinUs  

        

                     ( Subscription and Log-On Information )                         

        

             We are pleased  to  send  a "Love  Copy" of the most current 

        newsletter  to  anyone you think will be interested.   Just  pass 

        your friend's name and address on to us and we will mail out  the 

        issue  compliments of you.  Back issues contain much  information 

        which is still relevant and may provide some clarity on  subjects 

        discussed  in  subsequent  newsletters.   Love  donations  (which 

        should be made payable to Judith A. Wells) are greatly appreciat-

        ed and go to Spirit's work to create Heaven on Earth.

        

             A subscription also entitles you to log-on the Spirit Bulle-

        tin  Board Service, a computer/modem system with files on  alter-

        nate  energy, UFO/extraterrestrial happenings, political,  scien-

        tific  and  medical  information and much more.   The  files  are 

        updated frequently and we encourage you to use and contribute  to 

        this "library at your fingertips".  You may access this  informa-

        tion 24 hours a day by calling 1-704-297-5973.

        

             For a  year's  subscription (six  bimonthly issues) and user 

        status  on  Spirit BBS please send $30.00 (USA)  or  $40.00  (all 

        other  countries) in check or money order (no cash  please)  made 

        payable to:


                                 Judith A. Wells

                                Route 2, Box 309B

                                Vilas, NC  28692

                                  704/297-2343

        

        

-------------------------------End of Newsletter-------------------------------


Don


-- 

-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?

Internet: dona@bilver.uucp  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM

UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"

Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU!crb7q

From: crb7q@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Cameron Randale Bass)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: OIL BARONS SUPPRESS EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES

Message-ID: <1992Feb28.084857.9260@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>

Date: 28 Feb 92 08:48:57 GMT

References: <9202280005.AA08802@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>

Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU

Organization: University of Virginia

Lines: 24


In article <9202280005.AA08802@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363) writes:

>

>Tom Bearden, one of our upcoming speakers, may have illustrated it quite 

>well by the bird sitting on top of the wire with 13,000 volts going 

>through it.  We all know that it could kill him but it doesn't.  I am 

>positive that within this group will be found the ways and means for making 

>the energy situation of the future change.  

>


       Marge, its those new birds I've been tellin' you about.  Yep, those

       insulated ones.   Sure saves the inconvenience of the loud pop 

       and whiff of ozone of the regular ones.


                                dale bass


       P.S. try this experiment with the with bird IN the circuit and report

            back.  Sure beats a microwave.



--

C. R. Bass                                           crb7q@virginia.edu

Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering

University of Virginia

Charlottesville, Virginia                            (804) 924-7926

Path: ns-mx!uunet!infonode!macklowj

From: macklowj@infonode.ingr.com (Jim J. Macklow)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets

Message-ID: <1992Feb28.151642.10432@infonode.ingr.com>

Date: 28 Feb 92 15:16:42 GMT

References: <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu> <1992Feb25.044729.1040@cbnewsd.att.com>

Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.

Lines: 33


In article <1992Feb25.044729.1040@cbnewsd.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:

>In article <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu>, dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett) writes:

>> 

>> Isn't it amazing that UFO sightings really started [in the UFO sense] in the mid to late '40's?  Roughly 20 to 30

>> years after most of the ground-breaking research into higher frequencies in radio.  And has increased stedily since

>

>I used to be an avid UFO buff for at least 10 years straight('68-78')

>approximately. I remember reading about sightings of dirigibles in the

>mid to late 1800's before they were manufactured and used.

>If this is accurate, they first appeared in modern times in the form

>of airships or zeppelins. It wasn't until mid 1940'(?) they were sighted

>as flying discs near Mt. Ranier in Washington state.

>Any support?

>

>barry olson


This probably isn't what you're looking for, but in Japan there's a very

popular "legend" called Kagume-hime which is about a girl from the stars

who fell to earth.  A woodsman found her, and years later, when she had

grown, her parents flew to earth in a ship from the far side of the moon

and took her home.


The strangest thing about the story (to me) is that the woodsman found 

the girl _inside_ a bamboo stalk.  He cut it open and there she was.


This story is thousands of years old, so I guess it doesn't count as an

eyewitness account.  Probably doesn't count as a UFO account, since the

woodsman's family _knew_ the ship was a starship.  Can't remember if a 

shape is given in the story; I can check at home later.


Just some food for thought from the Far East's far past.


-Jim

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!ux.acs.umn.edu!csd1227

From: csd1227@ux.acs.umn.edu (Greg Larson)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <1992Feb28.115158.3801@ux.acs.umn.edu>

Date: 28 Feb 92 11:51:58 GMT

References: <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> <1992Feb27.180500.3855@aero.org>

Organization: University of Minnesota

Lines: 13


In article <1992Feb27.180500.3855@aero.org> robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:

>In article <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:

>>

>> [inanities ommitted]

>>

>

>Stollman, you are a LUNATIC. PLEASE commit yourself to an institution

>before you hurt yourself or anyone else.

>

>RS


And those who get their jollies by tormenting those they perceive to be

mentally ill could use some professional help themselves.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!aero.org!robert

From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <1992Feb28.183455.29276@aero.org>

Date: 28 Feb 92 18:34:55 GMT

References: <qk9sgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Sender: news@aero.org

Organization: Ssaymssik Inc.

Lines: 6


Gary, Gary, Gary........


You're the only one left. And we WILL get you; it's just a matter of

time.....


RS

Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!astro.as.utexas.edu!defonso

From: defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage

Subject: Re: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control

Message-ID: <67517@ut-emx.uucp>

Date: 28 Feb 92 17:22:50 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp>

Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp

Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors

Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

Lines: 21

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4728 alt.conspiracy:12685 talk.religion.newage:9528


In article <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:

>


[unbelievable amount of crack-induced blather 

 about military/alien/tooth-fairy takeover of the world deleted...]


>-- 

>-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?

>Internet: dona@bilver.uucp  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM

>UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"

>Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?


Does this guy actually make a living writing this stuff? Maybe he's

smarter than I thought =-)



-- 

Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In Search Of...a good .sig **** "When in doubt, tell the truth." - Twain

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!fauern!unido!mcsun!news.funet.fi!network.jyu.fi!tola

From: tola@jyu.fi (Teemu Olavi Lahteenmaki)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: HUMANOID.GIF (Picture from the Roswell incident ?)

Keywords: Roswell, UFO, GIF, humanoids

Message-ID: <1992Feb28.001948.3493@jyu.fi>

Date: 28 Feb 92 00:19:48 GMT

Distribution: alt.alien.visitors

Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland

Lines: 916


This is a gif picture scanned from a book about the Roswell-incident.

Picture has real bad quality - but it's good enough to reconize what it is 

about. It is said, that there are two military police here guarding 

suvirved humanoid from the UFO-crash (at Roswell, New Mexico, USA, 1947).

It is not known is this picture really related to this Roswell-UFO, nor

is it known where and when the picture was taken (anyway the picture

was given to FBI agent in 1950 at New Orleans).


To view it, save it and UUDECODE it and there it is !


NOTE: I am not taking any opinion of the 'reality' of the picture,

figure it out your self !


--- before UUDECODE, delete everything before this line -------------


begin 600 humanoid.gif

M1TE&.#=AL )' _       /___RP     L )' P "_HR/J<OM#Z.<M-J+L]Z\

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56%V3QTUQ[=33/?4C) I4SPN@   [

 

end

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.ans.net!nynexst.com!mirage!pjc

From: pjc@mirage.nynexst.com (Peter Colonel)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control

Message-ID: <1992Feb28.203523.8613@nynexst.com>

Date: 28 Feb 92 20:35:23 GMT

References: <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp> <67517@ut-emx.uucp>

Sender: news@nynexst.com (For News purposes)

Reply-To: pjc@mirage.nynexst.com (Peter Colonel)

Organization: Nynex Science & Technology

Lines: 26


In article <67517@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes:

|> In article <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:

|> >

|> 

|> [unbelievable amount of crack-induced blather 

|>  about military/alien/tooth-fairy takeover of the world deleted...]

|> 

|> >-- 

|> >-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?

|> >Internet: dona@bilver.uucp  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM

|> >UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"

|> >Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?

|> 

|> Does this guy actually make a living writing this stuff? Maybe he's

|> smarter than I thought =-)

|> 

|> 

|> -- 

|> Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)

|> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

|> In Search Of...a good .sig **** "When in doubt, tell the truth." - Twain

|> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Since you failed to read the article completely, you missed the disclaimer

at the top of the article. Try to do your homework before slamming Don. 

What have you offered to the net?

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Forwarded Belgian UFO Info

Keywords: sci.space post

Message-ID: <298@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 28 Feb 92 23:14:10 GMT

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 246



The following is a repost of a sci.space post. I thought maybe

you would like to read this since I know some people don't get

sci.space (Hi Jim! :-).


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-FWD sci.space post-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From: PHARABOD@FRCPN11.IN2P3.FR

Newsgroups: sci.space

Subject: Belgian mysteries

Message-ID: <Added.kdfUcCu00UkT44d09g@andrew.cmu.edu>

Date: 28 Feb 92 16:01:40 GMT

Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU

Organization: The Internet

Lines: 215


The following is a report written by the secretarial staff of the

Belgian Air Force staff. Any comments?                J. Pharabod

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

REPORT ON THE OBSERVATION OF UFOs DURING THE NIGHT OF MARCH 30-31, 1990


1.Introduction

a. This report gives an overall view of the reports from the concerned

   Air Force units and of the reports from ocular witnesses of the

   gendarmerie patrols, about the unknown phenomena watched in the

   air space (hereafter called UFOs), south of the axis Brussels-

   Tirlemont, during the night of March 30-31,1990.

b. The observations, visual and radar, were of such a nature that the

   take off of two F-16 of the 1 J Wing has been decided, in order to

   identify these UFOs.

c. This report has been established by Major Lambrechts, VS/3 Ctl-Met 1.


2. Context.

  Since the beginning of December 1989, strange phenomena have been

regularly noticed in the Belgian air space. The Air Force has at its

disposal several ocular witnesses, most of them having been informed

by the gendarmerie. The Air Force radar stations could not confirm, in

any case, up to March 30-31, these sightings, and the presence of the

UFOs could never be established by the fighters sent in that order. The

Air Force staff has been able to produce several hypotheses about the

origin of these UFOs. The presence or the testing of B-2 or F-117 A

(stealth), RPV (Remotely Piloted Vehicles), ULM (Ultra Light Motorised)

and AWACS in the Belgian air space during the facts can be excluded.

The cabinet of the MLV (Ministery of National Defense) has been informed

about these discoveries. In the meantime, the SOBEPS (Societe Belge

d'Etude des Phenomenes Spatiaux) got in touch with the MLV, in order

that the MLV backed the SOBEPS in its inquiries about this phenomenon.

This request has been accepted, and after that the Air Force has

regularly cooperated with this society.


3. Chronological summary of the events during the night of March 30-31,

1990.

Note: local time.

March 30:

23 h 00: The supervisor responsible (MC) for the Glons CRC (Control

Reporting Center) receives a phone call from Mr. A. Renkin, gendarmerie

MDL, who certifies to see, from his home at Ramillies, three unusual

lights towards Thorembais-Gembloux. These lights are distinctly more

intense than stars and planets, they don't move and are located at the

apexes of an equilateral triangle. Their color is changing: red, green

and yellow.

23 h 05: The Glons CRC asks the Wavre gendarmerie to send a patrol at

this place in order to confirm this sighting.

23 h 10: A new call from Mr. Renkin points out a new phenomenon: three

other lights move towards the first triangle. One of these lights is

far brighter than the others. The Glons CRC observes in the meantime

an unidentified radar contact, about 5 km north of the Beauvechain

airport. The contacts moves at about 25 knots towards west.

23 h 28: A gendarmerie patrol including, among others, Captain Pinson,

is on the premises and confirms Mr. Renkin's sightings. Captain Pinson

describes the observed phenomenon as follows: the bright points have

the dimension of a big star(*); their color changes continually. The

prevailing color is red; then it changes itself in blue, green, yellow

and white, but not always in the same order. The lights are very clear,

as if they were signals: this enables to distinguish them from stars.

23 h 30 - 23 h 45: The three new lights, in the meantime, have drawn

closer to the first observed triangle. In their turn, after a series

of erratic moves, they arrange themselves also in triangular formation.

In the mean time, the Glons CRC observes the phenomenon on radar.

23 h 49 - 23 h 59: The Semmerkaze TCC/RP (Traffic Center Control/

Reporting Post) confirms in its turn to have a clear radar contact at

the same position pointed out by the Glons CRC.

23 h 56: After prerequisite coordination with the SOC II, and since

all conditions are fulfilled to make the QRA take off, the Glons CRC

gives the scramble order to the 1 J Wing.

23 h 45 - 00 h 15: The bright points are still clearly observed from

ground. Their respective position does not change. The whole formation

seems to move slowly in comparison with the stars. The ocular witnesses

on ground notice that the UFOs send from time to time brief and more

intense luminous signals. In the mean time, two weaker luminous points

are observed towards Eghezee. Those, as the others, have also brief and

erratic moves.

March 31:

00 h 05: Two F-16, QRA of J Wing, AL 17 and AL 23, take off. Between

00 h 07 and 00 h 54, under control of the CRC, on the whole nine

interception attempts have been undertaken by the fighters. The planes

have had, several times, brief radar contacts on the targets designated

by the CRC. In three cases, the pilots managed to lock on the target

during a few seconds, which, each time, induced a drastic change in

the comportment of the UFOs. In no case, the pilots have had a visual

contact with the UFOs.

00 h 13: First lock on the target designated by the CRC. Position:

"on the nose" 6 NM (Nautical Miles), 9000 feet, direction: 250. The

target speed changes within minimum time from 150 to 970 knots,

altitude coming down from 9000 to 5000 feet, then up to 11000 feet,

and, shortly after, down to ground level. From this results a "break

lock" after some seconds, the pilot losing the radar contact. The

Glons radar informs, at the moment of the break lock, that the

fighters are above the target position.

+/- 00 h 19 - 00 h 30: The Semmerkaze TCC as well as the Glons CRC

have lost contact with the target. From time to time a contact appears

in the region, but they are too few to have a clear track. In the

meantime, the pilots contact on VHF the radio of the civilian air

traffic, in order to coordinate their moves with the Brussels TMA.

The radio contact on UHF is maintained with the Glons CRC.

00 h 30: AL 17 has a radar contact at 5000 feet, 20 NM away Beauvechain

(Nivelles), position 255. The target moves at very high speed (740

knots). The lock on lasts during 6 seconds, and, at the break lock, the

signal of a jamming appears on the scope.

+/- 00 h 30: The ground witnesses see three times the F-16 pass along.

During the third pass, they see the planes turning in circles at the

center of the great formation initially seen. At the same time, they

notice the disappearance of the little triangle, while the brightest,

western point of the big triangle moves very fast, probably up. This

point emits intense red signals, in a repetitive way, during the

manoeuvre. The two other points of the great triangle disappear shortly

after. The clear points above Eghezee are no longer visible, and only

the western brightest point of the triangle can be observed.

00 h 32: The Glons and Semmerkaze radars have a contact at 110 / 6 NM

away Beauvechain, which heads for Bierset at 7000 feet and high speed.

The registered speeds go from 478 to 690 knots. The contact is lost

above Bierset. The Maastricht radar control center has had no contact

with this UFO.

00 h 39 - 00 h 41: The Glons CRC mentions a possible contact at 10 NM

from the planes, altitude 10000 feet. The pilots have a radar contact

at 7 NM. Again is noticed an acceleration of the target from 100 to

600 knots. The lock on lasts only a few seconds, and the planes as

well as the CRC lose the contact.

00 h 47: The Beauvechain RAPCON mentions a contact on its radar, at

6500 feet altitude, position away Beauvechain: 160 / 5 NM. The Glons

CRC has also a contact on the same position. This one is observed up

to 00 h 56.

00 h 45 - 01 h 00: Some attempts are undertaken in order to intercept

the UFOs. The planes register only a few very short radar contacts.

The ground observers see the last UFO disappear towards Louvain-la-

Neuve (NNW). Around 01 h 00, the UFO has completely disappeared.

01 h 02: AL 17 and AL 23 quit the frequency of the Glons CRC and go

back to their base.

01 h 06: The Jodoigne gendarmerie mentions to the Glons CRC that has

just been observed a phenomenon like the one observed by Mr. Renkin

at 23 h 15.

01 h 10: Landing of AL 17.

01 h 16: Landing of AL 23.

01 h 18: Captain Pinson, who in the meantime has gone to the Jodoigne

gendarmerie, describes his observation as follows: four luminous white

points at the apexes of a square, the center of which is Jodoigne. The

UFO seen towards Orp-Jauche (SW of Jodoigne) is the brightest and has

a yellow-red color. The luminous points move with jerky and short moves.

+/- 01 h 30: The UFOs lose their luminosity and seem to disappear in

four distinct directions.


4. General information.

a. Meteo. The data mentioned by the Air Force Wing Meteo regarding the

   concerned area and during the night of March 30-31, 1990, are the

   following:

   Visibility: 8 to 15 km with clear sky. Wind at 10000 feet: 50/60

   knots. A slight temperature inversion at ground, and another, as

   slight, at 3000 feet. These data are confirmed in Captain Pinson's

   report. He mentions also that the stars were clearly visible.

b. Because of lack of appropriate material, the ground observers could

   not make any photo or film of the phenomenon.

c. The UFO observed with a telescope is described as follows: a kind

   of sphere, a part of which is very luminous; a triangular shape

   could also be distinguished (For a more detailed observation, see

   Captain Pinson's report, in appendix H1).


5. Constatations.

a. In contradiction with other pointed out UFO sightings, for the first

   time a radar contact has been positively observed, in corrrelation

   with different sensors of the Air Force (CRC, TCC, RAPCON, EBBE and

   F-16 radar), and this in the same area as visual observations. This

   has to be explained by the fact that the March 30-31 UFOs have been

   noticed at +/- 10000 feet altitude, whereas in the former cases

   there was always talk of visual contacts at very low altitude.

b. The visual evidences, on which this report is partially based, come

   from gendarmes in duty, whose objectivity cannot be questioned.

c. The UFOs, as soon as seen by the F-16 radar in the "Target Track"

   mode (after interception), have drastically changed their parameters.

   The speeds measured at that time and the altitude shifts exclude the

   hypothesis according to which planes could be mistaken for the

   oberved UFOs. The slow moves during the other phases differ also

   from the moves of planes.

d. The fighter pilots never have had visual contact with the UFOs. This

   can be explained by the changes of luminous intensity, and even the

   disappearance of the UFOs, when the F-16 arrived in the neighborhood

   of the place where they were observed from the ground.

e. The hypothesis according to which it was an optical illusion, a

   mistake for planets, or any other meteorological phenomenon, is

   in contradiction with the radar observations, especially the

   10000 feet altitude and the geometrical position of the UFOs

   between themselves. The geometrical formation tends to prove a

   program.

f. The first observation of the slow motion of the UFOs has been made

   roughly in the same direction and with the same speed as the wind.

   The direction differs by 30 degrees from the direction of the

   wind (260 degrees instead of 230 degrees). The hypothesis of

   sounding balloons is very improbable. The UFOs altitude during all

   this phase remained 10000 feet, whereas the sounding balloons go on

   higher and higher, up to burst at around 100000 feet. It is difficult

   to explain the bright lights and changes of color with such balloons.

   It is very improbable that balloons stay at the same altitude during

   more than one hour, while keeping the same position between

   themselves. In Belgium, during the radar observation, there was no

   meteorological inversion in progress. The hypothesis according to

   which it could be other balloons must be absolutely dismissed.

g. Though speeds greater than the sound barrier have been measured

   several times, not any bang has been noticed. Here also, no

   explanation can be given.

h. Though the different ground witnesses have effectively pointed out

   eight points in the sky, the radars have registered only one contact

   at the same time. The points have been seen at a distance one from

   another sufficient for them to be distinguished by the radars also.

   No plausible explanation can be put forward.

i. The hypothesis of air phenomena resulting from projection of

   holograms(*) must be excluded too: the laser projectors should have

   been normally observed by the pilots on flight. Moreover, the

   hologram cannot be detected by radar, and a laser projection can be

   seen only if there is a screen, like clouds for example. Here, the

   sky was clear, and there was no significant temperature inversion.

(end of report)

(*)sic


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-End of FWD'ed post-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Steve



-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!dam137

From: DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Habitable Planet's Table

Message-ID: <92059.192113DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>

Date: 29 Feb 92 00:21:13 GMT

Organization: Penn State University

Lines: 135


At the continuing request of reader's of this forum, I am posting this

table that shows probablity of habitable planets around other stars, plus

some other facts about habitable worlds...


Share and Enjoy...

Dave


***************************************************************************


        The following posting is a summary written by my friend and

    co-worker, Drew LePage, of an article in the January 1992 issue of

    the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS), Volume 45,

    Number 1.  Titled "An Estimate of the Prevalence of Biocompatible

    and Habitable Planets", it is authored by M. J. Fogg.


   ########################################################################


        There is a very interesting article in the January 1992 edition

    of the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS) on the

    likelihood of various types of stars having habitable or biocompatible

    planets.  A biocompatible planet is one where the long term presence

    of surface liquid water provides environmental conditions suitable for

    for the origin and evolution of life.  There are three subsets of

    biocompatible planets:


  * Juvenile Martian - As the name implies, it is a planet with condition

    similar to those found on Mars early in its life.  The planet would

    receive between 27% and 75% of the light we presently receive from the

    Sun and possess plate tectonics or some other geochemical carbon cycle.

    Mars was this type for its first one billion years.


  * Juvenile Terran - Again as the name implies, this is a planet with

    conditions similar to those found on the early Earth.  The planet

    would receive between 75% and 95% of the light we presently receive

    from the Sun and be geologically active.  Earth was this type of planet

    for its first four billion years (i.e. during the Precambrian period).


  * Habitable - This is a planet with Earthlike conditions.  The planet

    would receive between 95% and 110% of the light we receive and be

    geologically active.


        The author of the study collected the results of various studies

    to determine what conditions produce biocompatible and habitable

    planets, the evolution of stars and the effects on planetary environ-

    ments, the likely distribution of planets in other systems, as well

    as others.  The results of the author's simulations indicate the

    following:


  * Habitable planets can exist around stars with 0.8 to 1.8 times the

    mass of the Sun.


  * Biocompatible planets can exist around stars with 0.5 to 1.8 times the

    mass of the Sun.


  * Habitable planets may occur around >3% of the stars between 0.85 and

    1.45 times the mass of the Sun.


  * Biocompatible planets may occur around >30% of the stars between 0.8

    and 1.25 time the mass of the Sun.


        If only single stars possess planets:


  * There would be one habitable planet for every 413 stars.


  * The mean distance between systems with habitable planets would be

    31 light years.


  * There would be one biocompatible planet for every 39 stars.


  * The mean distance between systems with biocompatible planets would be

    14 light years.


  * There would be about 362 biocompatible (of which 34 would be habitable)

    planets within 100 light years of us.


        If planets could form in multiple star systems:


  * There would be one habitable planet for every 196 stars.


  * The mean distance between systems with habitable planets would be 24

    light years.


  * There would be one biocompatible planet for every 18 stars.


  * The mean distance between systems with biocompatible planets would be

    11 light years.


  * There would be about 763 biocompatible (of which 71 would be habitable)

    planets within 100 light years of us.


        The author goes further and calculates the probability of the

    nearer stars having biocompatible or habitable planets.  Assuming that

    planets can form in multiple star systems the following probabilities

    were calculated:


  Name                  Distance (LY)   Type    Habitable       Biocompatible


  Alpha Centauri A         4.38         G2V        7.8%             44%

  Alpha Centauri B         4.38         K6V        4.4%             38%

  Epsilon Eridani         10.69         K2V        0.6%             34%

  61 Cygni A              11.17         K5V        0.0%              5.8%

  61 Cygni B              11.17         K7V        0.0%              0.3%

  Epsilon Indi            11.21         K5V        0.0%             18%

  Lacille 9352            11.69         M2         0.0%             <0.3%

  Tau Ceti                11.95         G8V        1.5%             35%

  Lacille 8760            12.54         M1V        0.0%              1.5%

  Groombridge 1618        15.03         K7         0.0%              2.5%

  70 Ophiuchi A           16.73         K1         4.4%             38%

  70 Ophiuchi B           16.73         K6         0.0%             16%

  36 Ophiuchi A           17.73         K0V        0.0%             28%

  36 Ophiuchi B           17.73         K1V        0.0%             27%

  36 Ophiuchi C           17.73         K5V        0.0%              9.0%

  HR 7703 A               18.43         K3V        0.0%             27%

  Sigma Draconis          18.53         K0V        1.5%             35%

  Delta Pavonis           18.64         G5         5.1%             39%

  Eta Cassiopeiae A       19.19         G0V        3.9%             38%

  Eta Cassiopeiae B       19.19         M0         0.0%              0.7%

  HD 36395                19.19         M1V        0.0%              0.5%

  Wolf 294                19.41         M4         0.0%             <0.3%

  +5301320 A              19.65         M0         0.0%              0.6%

  +5301320 B              19.65         M0         0.0%              0.5%

  -45013677               20.6          M0         0.0%             <0.3%

  82 Eridani              20.9          G5         4.4%             38%

  Beta Hydri              21.3          G1         7.5%             35%

  HR 8832                 21.4          K3         0.0%             23%


        Assuming that the author's simulations and calculations are

    correct, there could be as many as 5.6 BILLION biocompatible planets

    in our galaxy of which about 500 MILLION are habitable.  And, as the

    above table shows, the nearest biocompatible planet could only be

    4.38 light years away.


        Drew LePage


=========================================================================

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbfsb!cbnewsc!chapin

From: chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin )

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Dispassionate Scientific Discussion

Message-ID: <1992Feb29.055814.14577@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>

Date: 29 Feb 92 05:58:14 GMT

Organization: Hickory Ridge - Lisle, IL

Lines: 7

Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4535 alt.alien.visitors:4733 sci.skeptic:21171


>You've got your head shoved so far up your as, you can't see daylight.


This must be some of that scientific objectivity in discussion I've

been hearing so much about...the mark of true science...


-- 

     tom chapin                tjc@hrccb.att.com

Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua

From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal

Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?

Message-ID: <1992Feb29.182327.9072@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>

Date: 29 Feb 92 18:23:27 GMT

References: <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com> <zzzk.699178139@jacobs> <1992Feb28.013543.15518@csi.compuserve.com>

Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!

Lines: 12

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4734 sci.space:27201 sci.skeptic:21189 alt.paranormal:4543


dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:


|> Thus, if you're looking at it simply from an odds-for-or-against

|>viewpoint, the odds AGAINST it being a face increase dramatically.


|> And that's what I was asked.  The odds against.


nonono....I am talking odds in the sense of gambling; do you want to bet

$10,000 against my $10?



josh

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen

From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage

Subject: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !

Summary: Daily Meditations for Peace at noon.

Keywords: Peace Clock

Message-ID: <1992Mar1.082051.19903@beaver.cs.washington.edu>

Date: 1 Mar 92 08:20:51 GMT

Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System)

Organization: University of Washington Computer Science

Lines: 104

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4735 alt.pagan:13226 alt.paranormal:4544 talk.religion.newage:9554



Since today is February 29, the Leap Day, a once in a four year

experience, I figured that now would be an synchronistically

appropriate time to post this. :) This is another excerpt from the

book "Bashar: Blueprint for Change - A Message from Our Future",

written by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing.


The Peace Clock as described below was started in December 1987, and

the efforts of the people participating in it, as well as of other

groups and individuals who have been working and praying for peace and

understanding on our Earth, have really been working, as can be seen

from the recent dramatic changes of the world scene since 1987 for the

better. Let us not stop here - there are more transformations awaiting

us! Let us step into the conscious creating of our own realities:



----------------------------------------------------------------------



                 -----  PEACE IN OUR LIFETIME -----

       <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  PEACE CLOCK  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                 ------   A WORLDWIDE EVENT  ------


STARTING NOW: Wherever you are, perform a silent meditation for world

              peace EVERY DAY AT NOON FOR ONE FULL MINUTE.

THE GOAL:     To have EVERY PERSON ON EARTH performing this event by the

              year 2000.


- SYNCHRONIZED INTENTION IS THE KEY -


o  With an alarm, a bell, a note or any other method that works for you,

   remind yourself with it is noon in your time zone.

o  Acquire the active participation of your company, your school,

   community, city, state and nation.

o  Involve radio and television. Have them broadcast the PEACE CLOCK

   name, slogan and logo, accompanied by one minute of silence every day.

o  Above all: approach all interactions with others in peaceful,

   constructive and creative ways.

o  Copy and share this information with as many people as you can.

o  Report your participation, or write for further information to:

   PEACE CLOCK, P.O. Box 8307, Calabasas, CA 91302


NOTE: Peace Clock flyers and cardboard master copies are available in

12 languages (8 1/2 x 11), as are 5x7 post cards. Write to: Dorothy

Compinsky, 2717 Arizona Ave., #5, Santa Monica, CA 90404, U.S.A.



----------------------------------------------------------------------



     At this time ([which was initially started in] December, 1987) we

would like to suggest to you a project we have called the Peace Clock.

A very simple idea, but very impactful. It goes as follows:


     Step one: every single day of your time, at noon in your time

zone - for one full minute at noon time - meditate on world peace in

any way that is comfortable for you. See your world enjoying the idea

of peace and harmony, in any way you wish to imagine, or visualize.

What you will be creating is a motion, a momentum, an electromagnetic

thrust around your planet - for we recognize you have many different

time zones on your world.


     If at midday in your time zone that entire slice,

one-twenty-fourth of your planet, is focused for one minute in

meditation on world peace - and then the next slice, and the next

slice, all the way around your planet, around and around and around,

day after day - you will actually generate an electromagnetic momentum

that will almost literally spin you, before you know it, into fourth

density, into synchronicity all around you.


     Allow yourselves to truly feel the strength of your power, for

you *are* empowered. If you know that *every single individual has a

profound impact upon your entire planet*, you will change your world

in ways you have not yet imagined - very rapidly. You will be

accelerating your world at such a pace that if this is accomplished by

your year 2000, then beginning from that year many things will happen

you will perhaps hardly even believe.


     Now, step two: take that information - that idea of the

one-minute meditation at noon - and share it with as many as you

possibly can. Involve individuals, cities and whole communities,

states and nations; all levels of society. Involve your radio and your

television media, so that at 12 noon every day they will also allow

the one minute of silent meditation. Remind everyone with a tone, if

you wish, or with a comment. All participating.


     The basic goal is to have every individual - yes, every *single*

individual - on your planet doing that one-minute meditation by

January 1, 2000. You will find such a high degree of accelerated

energy focused on world peace around your world that you will be able

to have the foundations laid down for one world between 1990 and the

year 2000. No later than 2013, 2011....


     AND THERE WILL INDEED BE PEACE IN OUR TIME.


--


-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu     |

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |

-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -

|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

Path: ns-mx!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante

From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dispassionate Scientific Discussion

Message-ID: <1992Feb29.201747.16159@rosevax.rosemount.com>

Date: 29 Feb 92 20:17:47 GMT

References: <1992Feb29.055814.14577@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>

Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator)

Organization: Rosemount, Inc.

Lines: 14

Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4547 alt.alien.visitors:4736 sci.skeptic:21200

Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius


chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin) writes:

: >You've got your head shoved so far up your as, you can't see daylight.

: This must be some of that scientific objectivity in discussion I've

: been hearing so much about...the mark of true science...


Could be, I've heard that the situation can be aided by the surgical

installation of a plexiglass navel :-)


-- 

Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  My life is a patio of

Rosemount Inc.                                |fun!

                                              |

grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: (STORY) Brazilian UFO Magazine Reports

Keywords: UFO article

Message-ID: <290@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 26 Feb 92 13:16:37 GMT

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 145



Found this Article in my vast UFO collection (Yea Right :-). I

thought it my be interesting to read since there some threads

out there about terrestrial space missions like Phobos, Viking

Lander etc etc.


---------------------------------Inserted Article----------------------

The following article, translated from its original Portuguese, is

reprinted with permission from the Sept/Oct, 1985 issue of Brazil's

UFOLOGIA, possibly the largest-circulated UFO magazine in the world with

30,000 circulation. Translator Catherine Solange is now working on

another UFOLOGIA story, also by Luis Gonzaga, which attempts to explain

a theory of extraterrestrial classification based on spiritual

hierarchies.


SOVIETS RELEASE INFORMATION ABOUT E.T.-ASTRONAUT CONTACT ON SALYUT

MISSION. By: Luis Gonzaga Sortecci de Paula


UFO crew members appeared in space and interacted extensively

with the three Solviet cosmonauts who linked up with Salyut 6 in early

1981. Surprisingly, the U.S.S.R. has elected to release some ot the

information on the history-making encounter.


During their Salyut 6 msiiion that began in March and ended in

late May, 1981, Soviet cosmonauts Vladimir Kivalyonok and Viktor

Savinikh maintained extraordinary contact with three human

interplanetary aliens. For an extended period of time, the cosmonauts

watched as these aliens operated an extremely advanced, circular

spaceship ringed with portholes.


Public awareness of this event was held back until 1984, when

the September 24 issue of `Manchete' was published. Displayed on that

issue's cover was the face of international model Jushiu Manegal, In a

relatively minor position on the inside left-hand corner of the cover we

read the sensational words: "Russians Encounter UFO's".


For approximately four days, with periodic interruptions, the

Salyut 6 and the round UFO orbited 400 kilometers above Earth. The crews

interfaced to approximately 30 meters of distance between their two

craft.


Shaped like a ball, the alien ship measured an estimated 9 to 10

meters in diameter. The circumference of the UFO was ringed with eight

symmetrical portholes, or windows. Sixteen additional transparent areas,

eight above and eight below the UFO's center area, were lit up in a way

that sugeested some automatedform of lighting.


By this interior light, the cosmonauts were able to observe a

relatively conventional-looking cabin space within the craft, exhibiting

control panels, chairs, retaining walls and other equipment and

structures. The surface sheen of the craft looked metallic. No obivous

points of entry and exit were seen, and the Soviets also noted a

remarkable absence of assumed necesities on the ship's

exterior-identifying marks, antennae, optical systems terminals, solar

panels and the like.


The encounter was initiated on May 14, when through his

porthole, cosmonaut Kovalyonok spotted the round object in front of the

Salyut 6 from about 1,000 meters distance. He had made out the ship's

portholes with long-distance binoculars.


The following day, the cosmonauts were surprised to see that the

UFO had moved in much closer, within 100 meters of the Salyut. Since

their unterstanding of propulsion systems was limited to the disposable

resources of Earth's rocket technology, the cosmonauts were perplexed

that the UFO could produce such a vast alteration of its orbit: If

rockets were used for propulsion, escape hatches for attendant fuel

emissions were noticably lacking on the aliens' stark craft!


Positioned by the portholes were three beings of human aspect

clearly making various gestures. They were of a solemn and serene

countenance, reminiscent of devout Hindus, with straight noses and thick

eyebrows visible above their enormous, slanted blue eyes. They looked

out at the cosmonauts with a deep and penetrating gaze, yet displayed no

emotional qualities in terms of our understanding of emotions.


At one point, the cosmonauts asked their Soviet base of command

for permission to make contact with these unknown voyagers. The

immediate response that got back was a decisive and definite, "no," that

the only manner of contact they could utilize must be instrumental.


Little by little, the alien ship was getting closer to the

Salyut, and at an unimaginable velocity. Ti would appear and disappear

at various angles. For frations of a second, it would disappear behind

the Earth and then reappear in a new relative position, stopping

abruptly with no apparent effect on the crew members. In one of its

reappearances, the alien ship stopped within 30 meters of the Salyut.


On impulse, cosmonaut Kovalyonok opened a celestial map and took

it to the window. To his amazement, he noticed that two of the aliens

did exactly the same thing, opening a map so that Kovalyonok could

clearly perceive out solar system in the upper right-hand corner, along

with many other celestial bodies not identified during the brief time

the map was glimped.


Without knowing exactly how to proceed , the Soviet cosmonauts

waved and offered a "thumbs up" gesture of fraternity-and they returned

it. Tentative communication was achieved by instruments, but did't

evolve to the level desired.


Using a high-potency light source, the Soviet cosmonauts used

Morse Code to welcome the visitors in Russian. There was no reaction

from the aliens. The Soviets tried English: "Are you reading us?" again,

no reaction. On the third try, still in Morse Code, the cosmonauts

tranmitted a binary number: 101101, which expressed a certain geometric

figure. The aliens responded with another sequence of numbers, not the

same as theirs. Later the cosmonauts verified that the aliens had

transmitted the value of the letter "E," based on a logarithmic

configuration applied frequently by the computers on Salyut 6, when

programmed to graphically linearize the relative curves of a complex

mathematical function.


Dressed in the same spacesuits they were wearing on board, which

looked like diving suits with visors, the aliens left their ship and

floated in space. They made strange movements, as if they were sitting

in chairs. They wore no knapsacks of any other kind of apparatus that

normally would be used to maintain life as it's known on Earth.


At the end of the fourth day, the aliens went away and didn't

reappear. It left the cosmonauts with a strange feeling of homesickness,

in the words of one ot the Russian crew.


Members of Russia's military and scientific communities met with

the cosmonauts on June 18, 1981, to view photographs and film footage

taken on the mission. Cosmonaut Kovalyonok was bombarded with questions

and responded to them all. Later he was silenced under the restrictive

label, "top secret," until, for reasons still not clearly explicated, he

was offically allowed to go public by determination of the Kremlin.


Footnote: Author Gonzaga lives in Brazil's capital, Brasilia, where he's

spearheading a community project to facilitate contact and

communication between Earthlings and extraterrestrials.


--------------------------------EOF------------------------------------





-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: A field trip on an extraterrestrial spacecraft.

Keywords: 11:11

Message-ID: <291@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 26 Feb 92 18:19:27 GMT

References: <1992Feb24.020157.12139@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Feb26.092511.19792@beaver.cs.washington.edu>

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 24


pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) writes:


>The passage is another excerpt from the book "Bashar: Blueprint for

>Change. A Message from Our Future", by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing,

>which is "channeled" from an extraterrestrial named Bashar (although

>don't let that label add to or take away from the feeling.) For those

>who have been expressing interest in this book, it is 302 pages

>($13.95 or so) available from New Solutions Publishing; Seattle, WA;

>ISBN# 1-56284-113-0. The back cover of it reads as follows:


Ahmmmm thanks but no thanks. You just convicted me not to buy the

book. Keep up the good work, the first thing that made me suspect

is you following-up on your own post. If it wasn't for you Walter

I might have bought this loser :-).


Steve


-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!rutgers!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re:  California CE-3's

Summary: Speaking of Light Beams

Keywords: UFO Light Beams

Message-ID: <292@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 27 Feb 92 16:24:50 GMT

References: <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu> <jms.07iv@vanth.UUCP>

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 62


In article <jms.07iv@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:

>In article <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu> vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus) writes:

>>In article <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:

>>>Yesterday I saw an ABC news report on an anonymous family in California who

>>>claim that they're visited by aliens every night.  The aliens probe them

>>>with beams of light, sometimes right through the ceiling of the house while

>>>the family is awake.  They made drawings of the ships and they look fairly

>>

>>   Couldn't be beams of light - ceilings tend to stop those.

>

>You're right of course, but remember that a lot of UFO reports tend to have

>paranormal elements.


Here's another press clipping that I have a copy of about beams of 

light you might be interested in. Something that also seems paranormal

to me.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Included Article-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Soviets: UFO beamed light, green cloud


UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL


MOSCOW- The crew and passangers of a Soviet airliner flying at

night over Minsk spotted an unidentified flying object that sent beams of

light to the ground below, the newspaper `Trud' said Wednesday.


The UFO lef a green cloud in its wake that flew alongside the airliner at

an altitude of 30,000 feet until it landed in Latvia, said the newspaper.


"The pilots saw what appeared to be a large, blinking star suddenly shed a

thin ray of light which fell plumb down on the ground," `Trud' said. It was

followed by two light beams which formed a cone.


All four crew members in the cockpit reported that they "could see

distinctly everything down in the sector of the ground illuminated be the

cone-shaped shaft of light, the houses and the roads."


The light suddenly shot back into the UFO, which they said was hovering at

25 to 30 miles in the air. "It then flared up, leaving a greeen cloud in

its stead," the report said, without giving a date.


"The green cloud then dropped straight down below the altitude at which the

airliner was cruising, then climbed up again in a similiar fashion,

positioning itself right opposite the plane at a height of 10,000 meters

[30,000 feet] and accompanying it in this way till the end of the flight

like an honorary escort," the pilot reported.


Nikolai Zheltukhin, a member of the Academy of Sciences, said there was

only one conclusion: "The airliner's crew encountered what we call an

unidentified flying object."


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=End of Story-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Steve

-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Tesla Info via Packet

Keywords: Tesla HamRadio Packet

Message-ID: <296@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 28 Feb 92 11:12:47 GMT

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 56



I know this isn't directly related to this newsgroup but there are

a few people that have mentioned Tesla here already so I'll do the

same. I just grabbed this off of `Amatuer Packet Radio'. It looks

like someone wants to setup a Tesla Packet database in Newark, NJ.


Clark: Maybe they frequent your BBS and snagged your Rex Research

Stuff :-). I'm going to send them a message to see what its all

about. 



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-MSG via Amatuer Packet Radio-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE

  544 B#  1697 TESLA  KA2RIT ALLUSA 920227 TESLA DATABASE EXCHANGE

Forwarding path: WB3EUF N3FOA N3DFD KF2AW KB1BD KB2EAR KA2CHO KA2RIT 


                        Tesla Coil Data Exchange

                             KA2RIT/WB2FGX

                               Newark,NJ.              

*************************************************************************

This is address to all those Amatuer Radio Operators who have an interest

in, building and experimenting with Tesla coils. The purpose of this

bulletin is to determine whether or not there will be a need to open

up a PBBS database,here at KA2RIT BBS. If there's should be a big 

respond's to this bulletin, then there will be a database setup here.

With the purpose to be able to share information and idea's with others

on this topic.As replys come in there will be list made up and posted

at all USA's BBs.With names,callsigns and address of all those with

an interest. When replying back please leave a brief message as to what

you are doing or have don with Tesla coils,Along with your 

NAME,QTH, CALLSIGN AND HOME BBS.


Name: John

QTH: (Elizabeth, NJ)

Callsign: (WB2FGX) HOME BBS (KA2RIT.NJ.USA.NA)



Send all replys to John (WB2FGX @ KA2RIT.NJ.USA.NA)

 



 


*** END OF MSG # 544 from KA2RIT @ KA2RIT.NJ.USA.NA


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=End of MSG-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Steve

-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo

From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part1

Summary: Lighten Up Mr. (Bill) Serious (Oh No :-)

Keywords: Review Footage

Message-ID: <297@beyonet.UUCP>

Date: 28 Feb 92 14:56:25 GMT

References: <286@beyonet.UUCP> <1992Feb24.172432.4575@anasaz>

Organization: Beyonet Network

Lines: 79


In article <1992Feb24.172432.4575@anasaz> billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:


I never said it was `THE TRUTH' only that is was the best UFO

footage that I have seen so far.


>Watch the tree branches, not the UFO, during this sequence.  The splice

>can be seen very easily with the naked eye.  The "light shift" and sudden

>jump of the branches shows the change in lighting and wind conditions

>between the two sequences. Also, in other sequences, watch the cloud patterns

>in the background to see where splices occur.


HAHAHAHA! Bill your parents must be Lawyers! HAHAHAHA 

So serious, lighten Up. You almost make it sound like Gary

has some competition :-)


########THIS WAS NOT PART OF THE SCRUTINY TEST OF THE JAPANESE###


You have to remember this stuff is dated back in 1975 the 

part you mean is at the end where Meier is talking about the

materialization wave mumbo jumbo. In that part while he is talking

the editing wasn't too cool and yes the jump of the branches

was VERY noticable. Did you ever think maybe it was edited there

because the film ran out? That part you discribe was not the part

that they scrutinzed maybe because it was the end of the film.


#######REMEMBER THIS WHEN YOU REPLY#####


I think the originals were checked for spices and editing before

the Japs did there investigation don't you?


#######SCEPTIC ALERT###########


The parts of the footage the Japanese scrutinized `Did Not' noticably have

changes in "swaying" branches or other surroundings like clouds etc etc.

It did have the "green glow" light conditions. Remember they did the slow

motion and still effects. I didn't touch my VCR buttons.


Again, what did he film?!?!?! How did he do it?!?!?!


###############################

>Horn swoggle.  This particular sequence was a large part of why Mr. Meiers

>was discredited.  As decribed above, changes in "swaying" branches and

>lighting conditions from one frame to the next are indicitive of splicing,

>not magic.  What's "true" is that the film was altered.


I notice you never say anything about the actual UFOs why?????

I wasn't worried about the film, I was trying to figure out how

he did it. Maybe this `Alter armer Schweizer Bauer mit bloss einen

guten arm' was really a Hollywood Film Technowizard with a phony

half an arm while his real left arm was tied to his back :-).


Come on, so he wasn't the greatest movie producer. I don't think 

he was using `Blue Screens' back then do you? What did he film?


The model that was found in his Shack was just that....A MODEL!

Yea thats it... He had a bunch of operator Engineers with Hydraulic

Cranes behind, operating the models on fishing string. Better yet

a fleet of Swiss Army Helicopters tangling the models with 

clear plexiglass poles.


>... more horn swoggle deleted ...


Horn swoggle huh :-) Reminds me of the 2 old Geezers on the

`Muppet Show' that used to cut up all the other muppets, hahahaha.


Thank you Bill for your excellent Opinion, very good to see someone

else out there think about these classic UFO debunker materials.

I only wish it was in better condition to really give it the 

microscope but alas all we can do now is wait for some new UFO

material to come out so we can scrutinize! :-)


Steve

-- 

 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############

 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########

 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############

 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####

 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##

 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##

 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####

_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Path: ns-mx!uunet!microsoft!marcmil

From: marcmil@microsoft.com (Marc MILANINI)

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic

Subject: Re: Dreamland

Message-ID: <1992Feb29.235824.9719@microsoft.com>

Date: 29 Feb 92 23:58:24 GMT

References: <schumach.698706566@convex.convex.com>

Organization: Microsoft Corp.

Lines: 28

Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4553 alt.alien.visitors:4742 sci.skeptic:21213


In article <schumach.698706566@convex.convex.com> schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:

>Yes, Newton was a genius, but he was not infallible. Some of his

>views were completely wrong (such as those that led him to write

>tens of thousands of words on alchemy as a science), or even lunatic

>(his deathbed statement that his proudest achievement was to die a

>virgin).

>

>So stop with these ridiculous appeals to authority, already.

>


<Flame on>

Seems to me that you missed an -another?- opportunity to shut up. First,

I don't think that Newton was really a genius. Hard-working, certainly,

but his intelligence was quite common, I believe. Second, and more important,

is the fact that alchemy is simply the ancestor of modern chemistry. Only

the work of first-rank scientists like Newton transformed it into science.

<Flame off>


I am waiting for the same thing to happen to ufology. During decades,

people kept on saying that stones were falling from the sky, and scientists

responded that it was impossible because there were no stones in the sky.

One day, one of them used the witnesses of a falling stone to calculate its

trajectory, retrieve it, and present it to other scientists.

Evidence was found that this stone was very likely not to be from the Earth.

It was the beginning of the study of meteorites.


-- 

=---K8>>@@@@@@@@ Marc Milanini @@@@ marcmil@microsoft.com @@@@%%

Path: ns-mx!umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu

From: zharman@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Raven Tengu of Kyoto)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy

Subject: PLANETCOM

Message-ID: <11211@ns-mx.uiowa.edu>

Date: 1 Mar 92 19:52:44 GMT

Sender: news@ns-mx.uiowa.edu

Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors

Organization: U of Iowa, Iowa City, IA

Lines: 431

Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4743 alt.conspiracy:12739



(Posted with permission by author.)

  

                  Concerning "Revelations"

                   author-Jacques Vallee


                      January 15, 1992

Dear Jacques,

     Far from a "revelation", as answer to either

Harbinson's "Genesis", or the Bible's, (the [aliens] sons of

God took the daughters of men for wives, Gen 6:6), your book

is expertly written but shows your tremendous bias by

omission. You have lightly tapped some of the "intelligence

operatives" in the UFO field smartly on the wrist with your

iron ruler, or was it an iron cross? Gave Bill Cooper's four

year old viewpoints instead of his current rethought

position. Wrote three pages separated by many pages about

the mechanical side of the flying object scenario possibly

having been produced here on earth by earthlings. Lip

service to assuage the uninformed. Sure, there are

extraterrestrials with bodies, and they must have craft in

which to travel. There are also other-dimensional bodiless

beings who need no craft to travel in. You are probably like

most folks and say that unless you saw a bodiless being you

wouldn't think it possible. In order to "see" a bodiless

being, one must go within and withdraw one's attention from

the exterior world of the senses.

     Come on, Jacques, double think, triple think and get to

the bottom of things. Otherwise you are no better at this

gig than any other decent writer who needs money, and

applies themselves to definitely "one-sided" revelations.

     1947 brought the passage of the National Security Act,

the start of the Nazi germinated CIA and NSA. The influx of

at least a hundred Nazi scientists, engineers, etc., into

the United States and Canada. A Nazi aeronautical engineer,

a certain Herr Miethe, who had designed four different types

of saucer shaped craft by 1943 using either rocket power or

donut configuration jet turbine engines (rather than

cylindrical), with the cabin stabilized by gyro, the

compressors rotating in one direction and the expansion

chambers and vectored exhausts rotating in the opposite

direction, was traced to Canada in 1947 and began work for

the A. V. Roe company (Avroe disk). The phony AVROE "aircar"

was definitely to disinform the press as to the real

projects underway underground in Canada.

     The eight mile long train that went out of Austria in

1945 (672 train cars!), to the coast of Brittany, the

contents loaded on board ships, eventually ending up

underground in Southwestern Canada. At the same time over

100 prefab factory buildings were shipped from England to

British Columbia. Get your "remote viewing" friend to scope

the spot for you. Anybody could find it, even at this late

date. A complete underground construction and flight testing

facility in British Columbia. The 1947 first "sighting" of a

flight of "saucers", Kenneth Arnold, etc., etc., right over

the border from the underground base in British Columbia.

The base was decommisioned in about 1952 when we (the

Americans) traded the H-bomb technology for all the improved

German hardware, and the scientists and technicians to go

with it.

     The first flights of these "captured disks" by remote

or on board pilots unfamiliar with their controls led to the

early crashes in Roswell and elsewhere. The disks were

captured from "aliens" (Nazis), and there were definitely

"alien bodies" at the crash sites, (Canadian).

     A special group was formed to keep this technology and

in effect all the most advanced forms of technologies

separate from the general course of science. This group has

powers above the executive branch. Who knows what it's

called? By the way, the Nazis had everything before any

other country, they had radar in 1933 they had infra-red

sensors, heavy water, etc., etc. We have been told lie after

lie in terms of who invented these things. If anyone in the

world had access to "alien" technology it was the master

race "Aryans" (Nazis). Their metallurgy and casting were

flawed or they would have conquered the world. As you

probably know, many expatriot Nazis were given carte

blanche, new I.D's., and were included in startup of more

than several departments of the CIA in 1947. Departments

including "genetics and cloning" (with some of the same

"doctors" who had given death camp residents gangrene,

etc.), "designer drugs and mind control" using the same

scientists who had designed Methadone and Methedrine for

Hitler's maniacal efforts. In 1952, a public stir caused the

CIA to shuffle these fab fellows out of town. My guess is to

the various underground centers that were being built.

     There's two reasons why you don't reveal things about

the characters in your book, either you don't know, or you

are protecting certain agendas.

     Linda Howe is a nice person, most certainly in on the

deception or so naive as to be pathetic. The technology for

hand held lasers driven by power supplies that only weigh

200 pounds has existed for twenty years or more. DARPA

builds them and they have all the necessary capabilities she

is overawed with.

     The reason for all the testing of animal systems from

stem to stern, reproductive systems and other organs by us,

is that 85% of the current underground nuclear testing and

100% of the above ground testing in the past at the Nevada

Test Site, has vented radioactivity into the atmosphere. The

radiation travels downwind offsite, and for the last 47

years has affected and continues to affect the terrain and

the animals with measureable radioactivity in the various

systems. It's only natural for those who think they are in

control to try to measure the quantitative damage they have

inflicted and keep inflicting on the earth and its

inhabitants and to KEEP THE RESULTS SECRET. These days the

largest rug that you can sweep secrets under is the "alien"

flying carpet! It interested me to see your specious formula

equating the number of landings, number of sightings, and

number of close encounters, into a formula for the amount of

landings that would have occurred unseen by humans if your

theory would have held mud. The problem, according to my

information, is that "sightings" and "close encounters" of

"aliens" by humans have always been staged, and for a most

important reason. It's estimated that 1% of the population

believes the crap about little-big-heads making a deal with

our government in the 50's, if they can get 5% of the

population to "believe", they can run the scam and everybody

will fall into line.

     Lazar probably works for NSA and was running a game

typical of the Russian G.R.U. on the scientists from Los

Alamos where the "Honeysuckle Parlor" was, compromising them

via videotape, then trying to decompartmentalize them. He

did the same for the personnel he came into contact with at

the test site in Nevada, he would recommend them to his

bugged whore house in Vegas to be taped and compromised.

Then there was the Lazar show on KLAS and George Knapp and

Gene Huff (Lazar's "clean-up man" like Nancy Davis Reagan

was the "clean-up person for Ronnie), John Grace (the

infamous Valdomar Valerian of "The Matrix" papers and head

of Nevada Aerial Research Group), John Lear and all the

other interested parties now have a list of "test site

employees" and others who called and wrote in, telling about

seeing "things" at the test site. The operation was mainly

to expose leaks in security at the test site.

     The reason Lazar was at either location was to pick up

exposed film taken of particle collisions (at Los Alamos) or

particle beam interactions (taken at the test site Nevada)

and develop it and return it poste haste to its point of

origin. He had a top secret clearance for this. With such a

clearance, he was a valuable asset to the small super secret

group spoken about previously. He was keeping track of which

scientists were working on what. Lazar doesn't violate the

tenets of his security oath. None of these shuck artists do.

If he were to talk about the particles and paths he saw on

the film he used to develop, they would put him away in

solitude. He is not a physicist and never was.

     I have talked to Paul Bennewitz at length, several

times. On his behalf, you only tell people how they drove

him nuts, not why. I ask myself why would you leave out the

reason that they sent him reeling? To fill you in, because

you obviously took Linda Howe's and Tracy's opinion rather

than questioning Paul directly; he's a pilot, he flew over

the Dulce area numerous times on his way between Albuquerque

and Denver. He took many pictures of the construction going

on, and according to Paul, he also took pictures of circular

craft on the ground at this site which, as late as 1973,

according to him, had large hangar doors much the same as

Lazar's second hand explanation about the doors at S-4. (All

the stuff from area 51 and "S-4" having to do with inertial

mass cancellation has been moved to an area near St. George,

Utah). The most revealing photos and their negatives

disappeared in about 1975 when various "fringe UFO experts"

visited Paul. Also, his house was burglarized and ransacked

more than once. In later years Moore, Shandera, and Torme

made a meaningless tour of Dulce and then went on to

Albuquerque (the real reason for their travels) to see if

there was any more evidence of serious consequence still in

Paul's possession that they could grab, and sure enough, he

was missing some more photos when they left his house. If

you had even talked to Bennewitz, you would have gotten a

lot closer to having a "revelation". But by listening to

what Linda Howe has to say about Bennewitz, you might as

well call your book, "Hearsay". By the way, you could have

your "remote viewer" look at the Dulce area and easily show

you some entrance points. The "waste" from the underground

bio-genetic lab (no aliens involved, although that is where

we humans produce the short lived, big-eyed, big headed

imitation "aliens") comes out in the river canyon about ten

miles below Navajo Dam. Although these days they "treat" it

a lot more before letting their "grey" water back into the

environment. This base and others are of course connected by

tunnels to Los Alamos. The Archuleta Mesa installation

rivals Pine Gap at Alice Springs, Australia for security,

etc. Every U.S. Air Force base has a so-called "bolt-hole"

and is connected to the bolt-hole by tunnel.

     Another source was in the area of the Archuleta Mesa in

1972. At that time a narrow gauge railway spur still existed

that went down from Durango, CO, through Dulce, N.M. through

Chama, N.M., and ended several miles later where it used to

connect to a straight line narrow gauge track that had gone

all the way from Albuquerque to Denver (part of the original

Durango-Silverton Line). This person noted a tremendous

amount of materiel being unloaded at a crossing of this

narrow gauge railway and the dirt road he was travelling on.

A bunch of workers were unloading flat cars full of cement,

pipe, etc, onto flatbed trucks that then disappeared down

the dirt road toward the Jicarillo Indian Reservation, he

took pictures because he was interested in the antique

railcars, etc. There were no accomodations in the area at

that time so he made his way up to Durango to stay the night

before going on with his travels. He was "tailed" all the

way to Durango to the motel parking lot by a "military type"

wearing civilian clothes, in an open civilian type jeep.

That evening he went to the bar to have a few drinks, was

picked up by a good looking woman who went with him to his

room, in the morning, she was gone and so was all his film,

not just the film in the camera! I have had several

occasions in my research to note that women are often used

to garner someone's trust. I call these women "military

millies", in honor of the one I personally came into contact

with who called herself "Milly". Pretty Army and Air Force

brats are mind-controlled at an early age and taught to gain

information from their subjects with the use of sex.

     A group of 21 people led by an individual we will call

Rick, went to area 51 in 1989 in a small bus to watch

"saucers". They were stopped on "mail-box road" by two

individuals carrying automatic weapons and wearing

camouflage togs. One individual popped a can of "gas" in the

aisle of the bus, and that's all they all remembered for

three hours. When they came to their senses, they cut their

trip short, returned to L.A. and five persons got separately

regressed using hypnotic regressers that did not know one

another, and found that during the lost time their memories

had repressed similar events. They had been marched off the

bus, taken in jeeps to a building nearby, and had their

lives threatened by military personnel. No "aliens"

whatsoever.

     In the U.S., the group that runs the "alien abduction

scam" can only use some of the hardiest of these short lived

bio-genetic bad luck stories. Short lived because they have

no digestive tract and can survive only about two weeks

maximum after they are removed from the growing matrix, then

they deteriorate and die. They have no "soul" and are not

considered "sentient beings" by Tibetan Buddhists.

     The French are obviously not as skilled as the U.S. in

fabricating biological entities, and so weren't able to

expose poor unfortunate Franck Fontaine to any phony aliens.

Instead, only keeping him in and out of the "twilight zone"

in their "clean room" wherever that was. They used a

haloperidol-like substance in the fog that surrounded his

car.

     Edith Fiore is a new arrival in the huckster

professional wrestling world of UFO experts. She claims to

be a clinical psychologist. ALL of her female patients who

"remember" with help, their "abduction" experience, remember

a long steel surgical needle being used to take eggs from

their ovaries. The same kind of long steel surgical needle

that WE USE to take eggs from female ovaries. If these

little greys are thousands of years in advance of us as the

liars would have us believe, why are they limited to using

model "T" technology to get our women's eggs? Gimme a break!

The reason the needle is remembered is because it is

painful, temporarily breaking the hold of the drug induced

mind control. Some of these women also remember a human in

the room at that time.

     Bud Hopkins is definitely an intelligence agent from

hell, slavering over the females he has attracted to his

franchised "abduction workshops", where all the females are

"supported" by other females who have had "the same

experience". One of the "details" that Bud harps on that he

hasn't published and that he retains "secret" as a test for

authenticity when he interviews new applicant "abductees" is

the "long steel surgical needle". If you remember the needle

you are authentic in Bud's cosmology. Thanks to Bud Hopkins'

franchise, female "abductees" can look in any phone book

yellow pages and find an "abduction support group".

     Whitley Streiber wrote "B" quality horror novels before

he got seriously mind-controlled at the Monroe Institute.

Then he started talking about little "somethings" messing

around with him in between sleep and wakefulness.

     Monroe has 5 permanent resident CIA astral travelers

who do nothing but "help" people to "understand" their

"travels" in group sessions after the fact. Bob Monroe says

that his "people", go into the astral world and everything

becomes foggy, so one wouldn't know if one was astralling in

San Francisco or London. I am a remote viewer and conscious

dreamer, and I know that information to be spurious. The

place that he and his people are going is "limbo land". The

places which I set myself to view or travel to, I actually

see or visit. No fog involved. Proof is in the pudding.

     Haldol is used to "treat" multiple personality

disorder. The inverse is also true, multiple personalities

can be "created" and screened from one another with the use

of Haldol. To become even more complex for the sake of

current discussion, one "personality" would remember an

abduction experience, and would be given dominance over any

other "personality" by the individual's "handler".

     The drug haloperidol-generic (Haldol-trade name), when

given in slight overdose causes a three hour lost time/lost

memory experience. Six American psychiatrists so far are

under indictment for taking advantage of their female

patients using this drug in overdose. Their mistake? They

didn't "mask" the "lost time" with a "memory" of some sort,

and so the women, after a short while, became suspicious and

went to different psychiatrists, got hypnotized to find

themselves remembering the exact events. To the indicted

psychiatrists' liking, one can have a person slightly

overdosed on haloperidol do anything physically possible and

not remember a thing for awhile! Whereas if you mask the

lost time with a "unique memory" the person will tend to

cling to that "memory", or repress that "memory" (to the

detriment of remembering the truth) for a longer time. If

the person joins a support group that periodically refreshes

the "memory", it will maintain long into the person's

future.

     The army's mind control unit must take well deserved

credit for the veterans who seemingly go suddenly crazy,

killing many people and then themselves. The most recent

event in Killeen, Texas was planned for the day BEFORE a

Congressional vote on gun control, hoping to influence

Congress with yet another mass automatic killing. Handlers

(psychiatrists) at each perpetrator's local Veterans

Hospital are involved in each and every case of these mass

killings/suicides. Prozac is also involved with each case

having been prescribed by the aforementioned "handlers" in

each and every case. The fellow in Canada who killed 12

women at a women's college, the fellow in the Stockton,

California schoolyard, etc., etc.

     Try reading the "Global 2000 Report", and the 1959

study by the Club of Rome, I could send you a copy of

"Stopping the Coming Ice Age" videotape, this in order to

gain an overview of what is really going on. "They" know

that the weather is changing permanently for the next

100,000 years, going back to an ice age. It has done this 17

times in the last 1.8 million years. Global warming is a lie

like so many other lies that we have been told in order for

them to insinuate that we have 50 years in which to change

our habits. These jerks tell us these lies in order to

maintain power, mine the last of the ore, suck the last of

the oil, sell us the last drop of gasoline and then tell us

that they were mistaken; when it's far too late for most of

us to grow food. They say that they do these heinous crimes

in the name of human survival. The only survival they work

for is their own. They work out of fear. Less than half of

the world's arable land will still be able to support the

growth of food crops shortly, so the concensus is that half

of the world population must die by starving to death, AIDS

(germ warfare-Strecker Memorandum), or killing one another.

     In order to maintain a semblance of control during

infrastructure breakdown when people are killing each other

for food, they will fly the saucers and tell us we are

undergoing an alien invasion, please stop rioting, go to

your local post office and register, FEMA will take over and

it will be a "new world order". Fascist one world

government, Communism already lost according to plan and

despotic Fascism always wins because people are

complacent and refuse to get involved.

     Bush will feign serious illness in October, to throw

the election. He doesn't want to be in power when this place

falls apart, which will be by 1996.

     Six years worth of grain is missing from the nation's

grain silos. Secreted underground no doubt.

     There are about five major end time scenarios that you

should consider in order for you to come up to speed on the

totality and magnitude of the subterfuge.

     You could call my service and leave a neutral number

and time when you can be reached. 818-569-3072


cc. M. William Cooper, Vladimir Terziyski, Martin Cannon,

Paul Bennewitz, and a multitude of other "friends".

*********************************************************


                          Apology


                     February 22, 1992


Dear Jacques,

     This letter is being sent and given to all who received

or were given copies of the first letter that I wrote to you

entitled "Concerning Revelations, author Jacques Vallee".

     I hope you will accept my sincere apology for what I

spewed forth in a state of picque while thinking of it as

"creative license". I hope all the other individuals and

groups mentioned will also accept my heartfelt apology. I am

pretty sure that all of the people and groups I mentioned

believe in what they are doing, and believe they are doing

what is "right". I did not mean to stir up pain or suffering

in anyone's personal life, hurt people's feelings or

commerce by weaving these real people into imaginary and/or

outright false fabric.

     The first letter was written with specific tone,

certain style, using a few facts and a lot of embellishment.

The myriad results could not have been imagined and were

mostly obtained because the letter was written in that

manner and sent unsigned to all who received it.

     To those who still don't know who I am, my name appears

in Bill Cooper's book "Behold a Pale Horse", which I suggest

that everyone should purchase and read.

     It's all right for the major players to go underground

during a crisis, either "natural" or contrived. We need to

lose half the population of this place in order to save it

from total devastation. We need to preserve certain whole

aspects of our ordered civilization. It's all right that

unconventional means are used to get laws passed to take

armaments out of the hands of all the idiots. As we approach

certain debacle, the ends justify the means.

     After the occurrence of the last days scenario, there

will be two main types of surviving groups on the surface.

     1. Total imbeciles with plenty of paranoia, plenty of

guns, ammo, food, bigotry, racism, etc.

     2. Loving families of "light" hidden away in out of the

way places, living in harmony with this Earth and the

Cosmos.

     I have heard that you read the entire first letter. I

have gained valuable input from people that called my

answering service and left their numbers or various

messages. I think you must have sensed that the first letter

did not need your response, however, I would certainly

appreciate talking to you sometime.

     Needless to say, Planet Com is working on an

"apocryphal book" which contains information about this

epoch that has never been common knowledge. It will be

available in 3 months. Projected cost will be $15.00

     Anyone interested in subscribing to a newsletter which

Planet Com has available, please send $2.00 and request to

Planet Com (818) 569-3072  Box 33, Mountain Center, CA 92561

cc. Those of you who copied and distributed the first

letter, please make copies of this letter and do the same.

**********************************************************


If you have intentions of replying to this post, PLEASE do not send me

(zharman@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu) email.  All replies (unless they are general

comments) should be sent DIRECTLY to PLANETCOM (phone and address included.)

I am not the one to answer questions, PLANETCOM _is_.


********************************** 

Please distribute this!!!!!!!!!!!!

**********************************


Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!news.bbn.com!ulowell!swlvx2!rayssd!anomaly!plankton.sbs.com!mpd

From: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com (Michael P. Deignan)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Subject: Re: INVASION!!!

Message-ID: <1992Mar01.143701.5398@anomaly.sbs.com>

Date: 1 Mar 92 14:37:01 GMT

References: <qk9sgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>

Organization: Small Business Systems, Incorporated, Esmond, RI  02917

Lines: 13

Nntp-Posting-Host: plankton.sbs.com


bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:


>She asked me to go into a small mental 

>hospital for a while


Sounds like the best advise you'll ever get.


MD

-- 

--  Michael P. Deignan                      / 

--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /   I'm not a bigot,

--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /    I hate everyone.

-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              / 



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