UFO message boards
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From: dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Cry of the Phoenix
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.083118.24958@csi.compuserve.com>
Date: 13 Feb 92 08:31:18 GMT
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In article <5548@shodha.enet.dec.com> timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) writes:
>
>In article <1992Feb9.125313.28781@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes...
>
> WHAT A WAIST OF BAND WIDTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Steve
I had a waist of bandwidth once...but a healthy diet and regular exercise
managed to get it all under control...<g>
:)
Be seeing you...
--
David "Maelstrom" Zecchini | "It may be better to be a live jackal
dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com | than a dead lion, but it is better still
dzecchin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | to be a live lion. And usually easier."
maelstro@bluemoon.rn.com | -Robert A. Heinlein
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From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Grey Aliens Sighted .... Again
Message-ID: <109273.29995B1F@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 12 Feb 92 16:11:00 GMT
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> >Is this cooper document authentic?
> >Also what has happened to him for the past two years?
> >Has he any plans to do any seminar's in Europe?
> >Has anybody purchased the JFK video from bill cooper?
> >Is there any FTP sites where I can grab more info on this subject?
>
> >Any help would be much appreciated.
>
> Is this the same Bill Cooper who says that JFK's driver did the killing?
> That Bill Cooper?
>
> Don Allen, Mike Corbin -- any comments?
First, I don't want to get into any protracted discussions about Bill Cooper.
All I can say is that we, ParaNet, had a great deal of experience with Bill
Cooper, up to and including ejecting him from the net for causing a variety of
disruptions, not to mention strong attacks on other members of the net that
were counter-productive to intelligent discussion. Our organization has
investigated Cooper to the max and can find no truth in anything he says
except that he was in the Navy, but not in the capacity that he claims.
Further, the tape of the JFK driver has obviously been altered. I have a copy
of that tape and I have no doubt in my mind that someone has edited it to make
it look like the driver. The bottom line is that Bill Cooper just doesn't
hold water, so anything he says should be taken with a large block of salt and
tongue planted firmly in cheek.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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From: jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Summary: Another sick deluded dupe who believes in Mars faces...
Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
Date: 13 Feb 92 08:49:12 GMT
Expires: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 05:00:00 GMT
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Yes, I've read "Monuments of Mars", and Hogaland doesn't exactly strike
me as a "UFO nut" or "kook" or whatever ephithet is going around these
days. He's (after all) a repected scientist (not that means he couldn't
be wrong, _but_...) and the book is a reasonably calm, well-researched
text. His _theories_ about the origin of the Face may be questionable,
but I for one believe there's SOMETHING weird in Cydonia.
By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a
"face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and
accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to
Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.
--Tog
P.S. If it _isn't_ natural...
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From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars-face info why it might be no optical delusion!
Keywords: mars face
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.102605.16239@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
Date: 13 Feb 92 10:26:05 GMT
References: <bosullvn.697232270@unix1.tcd.ie> <1992Feb05.164042.10541@csi.compuserve.com> <1992Feb5.192555.13090@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu> <1992Feb10.193545.18596@cadence.com>
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In article <1992Feb10.193545.18596@cadence.com>, jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) writes:
>[..] The guide says, "Here's the grand piano...". Sure enough,
>2 seconds later this grand piano comes into view. Naturally, its just
>a big limestone rock. But, once they suggest to you it is a grand piano
>before you see it, it certainly becomes a grand piano when you see it.
>[..] Sometimes they could actually
>convince me I was seeing the things they suggested. Sometimes they
>couldnt.
> When I looked at the picture of the face on Mars, I saw a face
>right away. But, it was presented to me as "The Famous Face on Mars".
>I think I would have known it as a face even if it werent suggested that
>way.
It is important for survival to recognize faces even if they are
distorted or partly hidden or just vaguely face-like (animals
have very different sorts of faces). It is normally not important
for survival to recognize pianos or rocking chairs.
--
-Caddy------(thomas kettenring, kaiserslautern, germany)--------
-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth---Stolen
-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth-----from
-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth--Matt G.
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From: haught@jvnc.net (Darrell Haught)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.130215.18372@jvnc.net>
Date: 13 Feb 92 13:02:15 GMT
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In article <behse.697924019@tubue> behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:
>Hi,
>
>I had posted the PYRAMIDS.JPG picture in various news-groups.
>I'm just wondering what You think about the Pyramids on mars ??
>Did You already take a look at it and what do You think about it ?
>Only optical delusion or proof of soemthing unexplainable ?
>Let me know !
>
>Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
>Decentral Energy Research
>email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de
>
Is this available in Gif format?
Darrell
haught@nisc.jvnc.net
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From: v070qg5d@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Eric M Chmiel)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Summary: Another sick deluded dupe who believes in Mars faces...
Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.152533.7634@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Date: 13 Feb 92 15:27:00 GMT
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In article <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes...
>Yes, I've read "Monuments of Mars", and Hogaland doesn't exactly strike
>me as a "UFO nut" or "kook" or whatever ephithet is going around these
>days. He's (after all) a repected scientist (not that means he couldn't
>be wrong, _but_...) and the book is a reasonably calm, well-researched
>text. His _theories_ about the origin of the Face may be questionable,
>but I for one believe there's SOMETHING weird in Cydonia.
>By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a
>"face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and
>accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to
>Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.
> --Tog
>
>P.S. If it _isn't_ natural...
Just out of curiosity....I don't have the picture of the Mars face handy,
but I believe almost half the face is obscured in shadow, am I right? If this
is so, you are on very shaky ground claiming perfect bilateral symmetry for
something that you can only see half of. The other obscured half may just
look like a big rock.
On the other hand, there can be no doubt that the Mars face is human in
form. What are the chances that an extraterrestrial race would evolve the
same facial characteristics as man? Not good, I would suspect. My point is
that you are asking us to believe that whoever built the Mars face had human
features (unlikely if they are native to another planet) or that they built
a monument to a human on Mars. If the face were of extraterrestrial origin
it would probably look completely unhuman, wouldn't it?
Please explain this to me. I am very curious. And please don't say the
face looks human because human-looking extraterrestrials came to earth on
spaceships and bred Homo Sapiens or something wacky like that. Just explain
this to me.
-Eric
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From: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <GERRY.92Feb13111935@onion.cmu.edu>
Date: 13 Feb 92 16:19:35 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs> <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
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In-Reply-To: jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu's message of 13 Feb 92 08:49:12 GMT
In article <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu> jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
Yes, I've read "Monuments of Mars", and Hogaland doesn't exactly strike
me as a "UFO nut" or "kook" or whatever ephithet is going around these
days. He's (after all) a repected scientist (not that means he couldn't
be wrong, _but_...) and the book is a reasonably calm, well-researched
text.
If he came across as a nut, no one would believe him. Although he is
quite wrong, his rantings may be enough to get the public interested
in sending another mission to Mars, which is a good thing.
His _theories_ about the origin of the Face may be questionable,
but I for one believe there's SOMETHING weird in Cydonia.
By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a
"face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and
accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to
Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.
If you look at enough randomly generated, natural formations
(especially if you computer enhance the images) you will see
everything you can imagine.
--
Gerry Roston (gerry@cs.cmu.edu) | Why has government been instituted at all?
Field Robotics Center, | Because the passions of man will not con-
Carnegie Mellon University | form to the dictates of reason and justice
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213 | without constraint. Alexander Hamilton
(412) 268-3856 |
|
The opinions expressed are mine |
and do not reflect the official |
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone, |
or any other organization. |
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From: zzzk@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Ken Eshelby)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars-face info why it might be no optical delusion!
Keywords: mars face
Message-ID: <zzzk.698003463@jacobs>
Date: 13 Feb 92 17:51:03 GMT
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kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes:
>In article <1992Feb10.193545.18596@cadence.com>, jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) writes:
>> When I looked at the picture of the face on Mars, I saw a face
>>right away. But, it was presented to me as "The Famous Face on Mars".
>>I think I would have known it as a face even if it werent suggested that
>>way.
>It is important for survival to recognize faces even if they are
>distorted or partly hidden or just vaguely face-like (animals
>have very different sorts of faces). It is normally not important
>for survival to recognize pianos or rocking chairs.
Right! Take a human individual and family developement class sometime and
you will probably learn that infants have a built in mechanism to respond
more positively to human faces rather than - a ball for example (even if
it's close to the color of a human's face). This goes along with the
built-in abilities to drive parents crazy into caring for their child because
of that high-pitched cry that I'm sure you all have heard before.
Point is: we can relate to shapes that are "human-esque" almost instantly
because of our instincts. Maybe I'll test this by showing some friends the
face and recording their reactions. (I'll use people that I haven't rambled
endlessly to about the implications and reasonings behind the complex on
Cydonia) Get back to ya!
later...
-ken
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From: u1625@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Pigeon Steven)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Mars face, pyramids, & a giant teddy bear in Australia
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.193618.4308@jsp.umontreal.ca>
Date: 13 Feb 92 19:36:18 GMT
Sender: news@jsp.umontreal.ca (Administration de C news)
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Ok, I must admit that those pictures are most fascinating, but, what
if and alien probe passed above Australia and then cought a picture
of the big red rock shaped like a lazy bear (Ayer's Rock, I think)
would they absolutly think it's man-made? (or "what ever"-made?)
Even if it does look like some lifeform, I'd think twice about it.
It is perfectly natural. Like might be the face on Mars. No one ever
saw the sphinx' face in the desert of ... somewhere in soudan? It
does look like a skull, and again, it was shaped by the wind.
The pyramids as well. I had a copy of the "original" bit map sent by
the probe, and before it is enhanced, there is really nothing to freak
on. Once enhanced, though, it begins to look like something.
"the best proof of intelligence out there is that they decided
not to contact us"
Calvin & Hobbes
--
_ ___ __ __ _ | Steven Pigeon
(_ | (__ \ / (__ |\ | alias Garfield (for my temper, I guess)
__) | (__ \/ (__ | \| U1625@JSP.UMONTREAL.CA
==Computer Science & Operation Research, Universite de Montreal==
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From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars-face view from Hoaghland concerning Cydonia
Keywords: mars-face
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.194001.25995@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 13 Feb 92 19:40:01 GMT
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Gee, a geomorphologist and someone with NASA connections - these would be great
people to examine the Mars face if only they could spell 'SETI' and
tetrahedron, if they hadn't filled their paper with technobabble and
sensationalism, and if they actually gave any details about this huge energy
flux that no one seems to have noticed before.
I'm all for variety of thought and different approaches, but the whole face
issue would be much more credible if it's believers didn't all come across as
writers for tabloids or folks who sense a conspiracy and don't seem to know
much about they background anyway.
Josh
Disclaimer: okay, okay 'An idea is not responsible for those who believe it.'
and I'm sorry I'm taking up all this bandwidth. I'm just getting tired of the
whole deal.
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From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Whatever Happened to Bill Cooper? (was: Grey Aliens sighted ..again)
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.192005.20795sheaffer@netcom.COM>
Date: 13 Feb 92 19:20:05 GMT
References: <1992Feb10.183334.24034@sun.pcl.ac.uk> <1992Feb11.041107.4504@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Feb11.202017.2352@anasaz>
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In article <1992Feb11.202017.2352@anasaz> billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:
>->>Also what has happened to him for the past two years?
>He was on a radio program about two years ago in Las Vegas and ran into
>a buzz saw. He was so thoroughly discredited by a knowlegeable UFO
>researcher that he simply faded away.
>->>Has he any plans to do any seminar's in Europe?
>I'm sure if you pay his expenses and anything over $2.00 an hour he'd
>be glad for the attention.
Naah, Cooper is still making the rounds. He was a major honcho at the
"Penomicon" UFOs-and-Conspiracies conference in Atlanta last November.
He gave a couple of "free" talks, but if you wanted to hear more, you
had to pay $20 for some "private" sessions. He also did some TV
interviews, and had scheduled some more expensive all-weekend seminars.
And it looks like he had quite a few "buyers" (one born every minute?).
On one panel, Cooper proclaimed that the "New World Order" would be
a reality in "less than two years". I then pointed out that if all these
nightmare things haven't come to pass by Nov. 2, 1993, then we KNOW
we can safely ignore everything Cooper has to say.
Besides, anyone who's been active in the UFO field for some time
could spot the fallacy in the above: since when has being "discredited"
ever shut anyone up??????? :)
--
Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
"The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
- Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
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From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Ummo
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.194808.23716sheaffer@netcom.COM>
Date: 13 Feb 92 19:48:08 GMT
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In article <Joe.3302@Phoenix.CAM.ORG> Joe@Phoenix.CAM.ORG (Joe Martinez) writes:
>
>Not quite so... At first I had the same impression. Jean-Pierre Petit
>appeared in an interview for the French magazine "VSD" (in the September
>15th '91 issue I believe), where according to the information given in a
>diagram, the star (Wolf 424) was supposed to be located in the Virgo
>constellation, pretty much between the tip of the two upper arms represented
>by the figure drawn by the Virgo constellation. Then I started searching
>through my two astronomy programs (Distant Suns 4.0 and Voyager on my Amiga)
>and couldn't locate the star in question. Finally, I picked an option from
>Voyager's menu which brings up a 3D view of nearby stars and found it!
>The star goes by the name of "Wolf 424QA" and has a magnitude of 13.2,
>an absolute magnitude of 15.0, at position RA: 12h 33.0m; Dec: +09 deg 07',
>and at a distance of 4.3 parsecs or 14.2 light years. This position places it
>exactly where shown on the diagram and the distance approximates 15 ly.
I don't have any astro books handy, but if this is accurate, you are
describing a white dwarf. Such a star is UTTERLY incapable of supporting
a planet with life.
>
> EARTH UMMO
>
>
>non-covered land (by water) 29.2 % 38.16 %
> would be ICE!
if white dwarf
>distance from it's sun 149 504 000 km 99 600 000 km
>
>
>temperature 5 785 deg Kelvin 4 580.3 deg Kelvin
>
>magnitude 4.73 7.4
>
>spectral class G2 K
>
>distance from Sun -- 14.421 light years
> on 8-7-1967
>
>Note: Magnitude from this table does not match (not by a long shot) that of
> program database. Also I had no spectral class data from program
> to compare with table...
I think that the "UMMO" star described above must be the one that
astronomers "haven't noticed" yet. This fellow Petit tried to "fix"
that problem, and brought in Wolf 424, which *has* been "noticed",
but which doesn't fit the Ummit's "data".
--
Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
"The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
- Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
Path: ns-mx!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!netcomsv!sheaffer
From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>
Date: 13 Feb 92 19:36:59 GMT
References: <109069.299833F3@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Feb13.002517.7758sheaffer@netcom.COM> <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
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In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>
>Why must you and other "sceptics" insist on equating "UFO's" with
>"ETI"?
>
>If you would dispense with this obsession, true skeptical and scientific
>study of the _phenomenon_ may be possible.
>
>Why do skeptics continue to see the UFO phenomenon as "aliens, ET's,
>and flying saucers", even when that is not brought into the discussion by
>the "other side"?
>
OK, Hynek and Vallee used to bring up this same objection twenty years
ago. And we replied, OK, it doesn't HAVE to be that. What else might it
be, that has little men coming out of a flying craft, and scurrying
about?
And they would reply, We dunno what else it could be,
it's just "unidentified".
So OK, even though in the mind of the public (and MOST UFOlogists),
UFOs = ETI, it MIGHT be something else.
UFOs might be time travellers.
UFOs might be from another dimension.
UFOs might be secret Nazi technology, flown from bases at the South Pole.
UFOs might be Jungian "archetypes" projected into existence by the
collective unconsious, etc.
I suppose that any one of these "might" be true. And ANY one of them
would be a mighty important discovery, IF TRUE.
So, all you have to do is to convince astronomers, and other scientists,
that studying UFOs is going to teach us about *anything real*, apart
from human self-deception!!
--
Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
"The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
- Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
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From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 13 Feb 92 22:12:14 GMT
References: <109069.299833F3@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Feb13.002517.7758sheaffer@netcom.COM> <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>
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In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...
>In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>
>>Why must you and other "sceptics" insist on equating "UFO's" with
>>"ETI"?
>>
>>If you would dispense with this obsession, true skeptical and scientific
>>study of the _phenomenon_ may be possible.
>>
>>Why do skeptics continue to see the UFO phenomenon as "aliens, ET's,
>>and flying saucers", even when that is not brought into the discussion by
>>the "other side"?
>>
>OK, Hynek and Vallee used to bring up this same objection twenty years
>ago. And we replied, OK, it doesn't HAVE to be that. What else might it
>be, that has little men coming out of a flying craft, and scurrying
>about?
Are you referring to all UFO events, or only those where witnesses claim
to have seen occupants?
It simply isn't relevant to the debate about studying the _phenomenon_.
What is relevant is that there is an apparent need by many sceptics to
"diminish" the unknown aspects of the phenomenon by constantly alluding
to space aliens and flying saucers. That Hynek and Vallee both used this
same argument is irrelevant. In any case, it is true.
Incidentally, are you aware that Vallee became interested in studying this
phenomenon when he found astronomers destroying observation data of UFO
events that they could not explain?
>
>And they would reply, We dunno what else it could be,
>it's just "unidentified".
>
>So OK, even though in the mind of the public (and MOST UFOlogists),
>UFOs = ETI, it MIGHT be something else.
>
>UFOs might be time travellers.
>
>UFOs might be from another dimension.
>
>UFOs might be secret Nazi technology, flown from bases at the South Pole.
>
>UFOs might be Jungian "archetypes" projected into existence by the
>collective unconsious, etc.
And don't forget: UFOs might all be a perception of mundane events.
And of course: UFOs might be secret military test-aircraft.
But we don't know that.
BTW: I don't believe this was what Jung claimed (that these things were
somehow created by the collective unconscious). It's true that he alluded
to this, but if you read the remainder of his remarks about this, I think
you'll find that he too, thought that UFO's were a real, physical
phenomenon. I'll double check this to make sure I didn't misrepresent
this.
>
>I suppose that any one of these "might" be true. And ANY one of them
>would be a mighty important discovery, IF TRUE.
>
>So, all you have to do is to convince astronomers, and other scientists,
>that studying UFOs is going to teach us about *anything real*, apart
>from human self-deception!!
No, not necessarily. The only people that need convincing are those who
might be inquisitive enough to want to know what the phenomenon really,
truly is. Fortunately, they usually aren't the problem.
Only those who are interested in establishing the truth
about this phenomenon need apply.
BTW: Has it ever occurred to you that you may be limiting the sciences by
allowing the study of only those things that would contribute to _known_
fields (such as astronomy, biology, etc.)? Is it not possible that a
study of the _phenomena_ may yield an entirely _new_ science?
Don't misunderstand me. I'm not implying that we should study the
phenomenon for the sake of creating a new science. But, by limiting
our research to those things we already know about or we are sure will
contribute only to _known_ fields is, well...., limiting.
>
> Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
Jim Graham - Scepticus Realisticus
-> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
Neither do they speak for me.
______________________________________________________________________
| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
|______________________________________________________________________|
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From: behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <behse.698015893@tubue>
Date: 13 Feb 92 21:18:13 GMT
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In <1992Feb13.130215.18372@jvnc.net> haught@jvnc.net (Darrell Haught) writes:
>In article <behse.697924019@tubue> behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I had posted the PYRAMIDS.JPG picture in various news-groups.
>>I'm just wondering what You think about the Pyramids on mars ??
>>Did You already take a look at it and what do You think about it ?
>>Only optical delusion or proof of soemthing unexplainable ?
>>Let me know !
>>
>>Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
>>Decentral Energy Research
>>email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de
>>
> Is this available in Gif format?
>Darrell
>haught@nisc.jvnc.net
Sorry, Darrell, but the original Scan in GIF-format was about 750 KBytes big,
so I decided to convert this 1021*768*256 big picture to JPEG.
I have also scanned two more pictures from the mentioned book and have put them
on a FTP server. So everybody who wants to have also the other two JPEG pics:
They are called : marsinka.jpg ("inkacity" on mars) and marsface.jpg (close-up
zoom of the face), can mail me their email adress, so I will let You know, where
I did put them. By the way, You can also ask "archie".
But I did ask about what You think about the Pyramids and not about the face !
So do You all still think, these rectangular buildings and shadows are normal
rock formations ? When not let's try to convince the people at NASA and JPL
to have the best pictures from the upcoming MARS OBSERVER probe be taken from
the Cydonia region !!
There was several times mentioned, that no pictures would be taken in this
upcoming flight !? What is the official statement now ?
Here comes an info courtesy of Tom Lane about JPEG-software, where to get it:
If you are looking for "canned" software, viewers, etc:
There is not a lot of pre-built, no-thought-required JPEG software available
yet. This short list will no doubt grow with time.
For X Windows, John Bradley's XV version 2.00 is an excellent JPEG/GIF viewer.
It's available for FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu or grip.cis.upenn.edu. The
file is called 'xv-2.00.tar.Z' and is located in the 'contrib' directory on
export or the 'pub' directory on grip. XV's only real shortcoming is that
it does not fully exploit 24-bit displays (it reduces all images to 8 bits).
If you have a 24-bit display you will get better results from "xloadimage",
which is also available from export, file contrib/xloadimage.3.01.tar.Z.
Version 3.01 does not read JPEG files, but it will read the PPM files put
out by the free JPEG converter described below. There is also a patched
version called "xli" (see files xli.* in same directory) that does read JPEG
directly. However, xli is a quick hack rather than an official release;
caveat user. Another good choice for X Windows is John Cristy's ImageMagick
package, also available from export, file contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z. The
viewer included in this package handles 24-bit displays correctly; for
colormapped displays, it does better (though slower) color quantization
than XV.
For MS-DOS, Handmade Software offers two (rather pricy) shareware programs:
Image Alchemy and GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF (contact hsi@netcom.com for details). The
PC versions of these programs are available for FTP from wuarchive.wustl.edu,
directory mirrors/msdos/graphics, files alchmy15.zip and gif2jpg5.zip; also
from SIMTEL20 and its other mirror sites. (Image Alchemy is also available
as an executable for Sun Unix machines, but I don't know where to find it.)
GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF only perform JPEG<=>GIF format conversion. Image Alchemy
converts files between these and many other formats, and can also display
images on some types of hardware. The display option is pretty limited,
so you'll still want a separate viewer program. (WARNING: GIF2JPG produces
a proprietary file format unless you specify -j. Be sure to use -j if you
want to exchange JPEG files with other Usenet users. For that matter, it's
not real clear that you should be posting JPEG files made from GIFs; see
section 5.)
For the Macintosh, Storm Technology has released a free program that can
decode and view JPEG images (though not create them). This is called
Picture Decompress. Make sure you get version 2.0.1 or later; earlier
versions are not compatible with JFIF file format. This program can be
FTPed from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, directory /info-mac/app, file
picture-decompress-201.hqx. You'll also need a tool for adjusting file type
codes; set the type of a downloaded image file to 'JPEG' to allow Picture
Decompress to open it.
If none of the above fits your situation, you can obtain and compile the
free JPEG converter program described below. You'll also need a viewer
program, and if your viewer only handles GIF files, you'll want a separate
color quantization program (we recommend ppmquant from the PBMPLUS package
for Unix machines; on PCs, try Piclab). This last requirement will go away
with the next release of the free code.
There are numerous commercial JPEG offerings, with more popping up every
day. I recommend that you not spend money on one of these unless you find
the available free or shareware software vastly too slow. In that case,
purchase a hardware-assisted product. Ask pointed questions about whether
the product complies with the final JPEG standard and about whether it can
handle the JFIF file format; many of the earliest commercial releases are
not and never will be compatible with anyone else's files.
If you are looking for source code to work with:
Free, portable C code for JPEG compression is available from the Independent
JPEG Group, which I lead. A package containing our source code,
documentation, and some small test files is available from several places.
The "official" archive site for this source code is ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9
or 192.48.96.9). Look under directory /graphics/jpeg; the current release
is jpegsrc.v2.tar.Z. (This is a compressed TAR file; don't forget to
retrieve in binary mode.) You can retrieve this file by FTP or UUCP. Folks
in Europe may find it easier to FTP from nic.funet.fi (see directory
pub/graphics/programs/jpeg). The source code is also available on
CompuServe, in the GRAPHSUPPORT forum (GO PICS), library 10, as jpsrc2.zip.
The free JPEG code provides conversion between JPEG "JFIF" format and image
files in PBMPLUS PPM, Utah RLE, Truevision Targa, and GIF file formats.
(However, output to GIF format is not of high quality at present; ditto for
colormapped Targa and RLE formats.) The core compression and decompression
modules can easily be reused in other programs, such as image viewers. The
package is highly portable; we have tested it on many machines ranging from
PCs to Crays.
We have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use.
Companies are welcome to use it as the basis for JPEG-related products.
We do not ask a royalty, although we do ask for an acknowledgement in
product literature (see the README file in the distribution for details).
We hope to make this software industrial-quality --- although, as with
anything that's free, we offer no warranty and accept no liability.
The Independent JPEG Group is a volunteer organization; if you'd like to
contribute to improving our software, you are welcome to join.
If you are not reasonably handy at configuring and installing portable C
programs, you may have some difficulty installing the free source code.
Steve Davis (strat@cis.ksu.edu) has volunteered to maintain an archive of
pre-built executable versions of the free JPEG code for various machines.
His FTP archive is at procyon.cis.ksu.edu (129.130.10.80 -- this number is
due to change soon); look under /pub/JPEG to see what he currently has.
(The administrators of this system ask that FTP traffic be limited to
non-prime hours.) This archive is not maintained by the Independent JPEG
Group, and files in it may not represent the latest source code.
For more information about JPEG in general or the free JPEG software in
particular, contact the Independent JPEG Group at jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net.
--
tom lane
organizer, Independent JPEG Group
Internet: tgl@cs.cmu.edu BITNET: tgl%cs.cmu.edu@carnegie
Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de
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From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars-face view from Hoaghland concerning Cydonia
Summary: sheesh
Keywords: mars-face
Message-ID: <21304@dog.ee.lbl.gov>
Date: 13 Feb 92 22:05:49 GMT
References: <behse.697949192@tubue> <1992Feb13.194001.25995@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
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Doesn't ANYBODY realize that the Mars face is just an alien ruse to
discredit alternative xenogeomorphology, thus keeping people from
noticing the REAL face -- on Venus? C'mon, folks. Surely you've
seen the Magellan image clearly showing the nose of an almost entirely
buried supine humanoid figure of tremendous size, viewed from the chin?
For horse E.T.s, I recommend the January issue of Car and Driver.
Disclaimer: I've never been to Sedona (though I have spent plenty
of time in Marin County and Santa Fe) and, in case you are having a
really slow day, am pulling your leg. Or, if you yourself are an
alien, your pseudopod or tentacle or whatever.
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From: behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal
Subject: Any scanned UFO-GIF-pics available by FTP ?
Summary: ufo gif pics
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <behse.698017158@tubue>
Date: 13 Feb 92 21:39:18 GMT
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Hi,
I just wonder, if there is a FTP server out there, which has already stored
any scanned or digitized UFO-GIF-or JPEG-pictures. I mean pictures from real
photos, which were made by people who have watched any UFO-sighting !
If not, why shouldn't we create one ? Is any sysop of a FTP-server is reading
this and is interested to share some disk-space for this topic ?
With pictures to look at, the discussion about UFO-sightings is much more
clear. By the way, I will get soon a few good pictures from a friend and I would
like to put them up anywhere to share them with the people from the net.
let me know.
Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de
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From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord
Message-ID: <1992Feb14.000927.25613@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 14 Feb 92 00:09:27 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs> <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
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jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
>Yes, I've read "Monuments of Mars", and Hogaland doesn't exactly strike
>me as a "UFO nut" or "kook" or whatever ephithet is going around these
>days. He's (after all) a repected scientist (not that means he couldn't
>be wrong, _but_...) and the book is a reasonably calm, well-researched
>text. His _theories_ about the origin of the Face may be questionable,
>but I for one believe there's SOMETHING weird in Cydonia.
>By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a
>"face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and
>accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to
>Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.
> --Tog
>P.S. If it _isn't_ natural...
I don't see any bilateral symmetry in the picture I've seen at all. The
left side of the 'face' is in shadow, and for that matter, the shadow
doesn't look like it's being thrown like a face shaped object. As I
understand it, the other picture of the face has simliar lighting conditions,
so where did you pull the symmetry from? Considering the sheer SIZE of Mars,
and the fact that the picture shows only a few features of a 'face' at
something like 50 meter resolution, I'm surprised there aren't _more_ natural
features that remind you of things.
Josh 'Kumquat' Hopkins
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From: siri@otc.otca.oz (Siri Hewa)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <5054@otc.otca.oz>
Date: 13 Feb 92 23:10:33 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue>
Reply-To: siri@otc.research.otca.oz.au (Siri Hewa)
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Thank you for the Mars.jpg picture as quality of the picture is quite good. I
also got other mars face gif picture which was done on very close up zoom shot.
Now looking at the jpg picture I have to say that area of this picture got
quite few rocks(natural?) which seems to be natural formation. But Mars face
stick out like a sore thumb on this picture. I think only way to get proof of
any sort is to go there in person?.
Siri Hewa.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!mbs110
From: MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St. John Polevaulter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Summary: A thrilling chase scene with lots of character development
Message-ID: <92044.202712MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: 14 Feb 92 01:27:12 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs>
<1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
<1992Feb14.000927.25613@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
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In article <1992Feb14.000927.25613@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
says:
>Considering the sheer SIZE of Mars,
>and the fact that the picture shows only a few features of a 'face' at
>something like 50 meter resolution, I'm surprised there aren't _more_ natural
>features that remind you of things.
AHA! That's it!
Forget the Face! Forget the pyramids! Forget the beer can they threw at
Phobos 2, THIS is proof that aliens visited Mars! They must have spent
millenia, scouring the surface, removing every natural feature that might
remind humans of something. Through sheer bad luck they missed the Face,
and... and... and...
Okay, I'll shut up now.
[Your blood pressure just went up.] Mark Sachs IS: mbs110@psuvm.psu.edu
DISCLAIMER: Penn State cares about my money, not my opinions.
"All my father wanted to do was make a toaster you could really set the
darkness on -- and you perverted his work into those horrible machines!"
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From: keho@quads.uchicago.edu (david kehoe)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars-face view from Hoaghland concerning Cydonia
Keywords: mars-face
Message-ID: <1992Feb14.014130.27576@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: 14 Feb 92 01:41:30 GMT
References: <behse.697949192@tubue>
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The story I read about the Mars face was much more interesting:
in the late 1940's a Japanese-American sculptor wanted to carve
a giant face out a hill, which would be titled "View of the Face
on Mars." He didn't get to do it, but he made a model, which
supposedly looks just like the photo from Mars, and the full-sized
sculpture would be the same size as the one one Mars.
I think I read this in that book about the Aztecs that predicted
the harmonic convergance in 1988. Has anyone else heard this
story? If it were true I expect it would be widely publicized
by now.
--
"Why my thoughts are my own, when they are in, but when they are out
they are another's." - Susanna Martin, executed for witchcraft, 1681.
Thomas David Kehoe keho@midway.uchicago.edu (312) 753-0119
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From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb14.061621.7583@cco.caltech.edu>
Date: 14 Feb 92 06:16:21 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs> <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>,<1992Feb13.152533.7634@acsu.buffalo.edu>
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In article <1992Feb13.152533.7634@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v070qg5d@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Eric M Chmiel) writes:
>In article <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes...
>>Yes, I've read "Monuments of Mars", and Hogaland doesn't exactly strike
>>me as a "UFO nut" or "kook" or whatever ephithet is going around these
>>days. He's (after all) a repected scientist (not that means he couldn't
>>be wrong, _but_...) and the book is a reasonably calm, well-researched
>>text. His _theories_ about the origin of the Face may be questionable,
>>but I for one believe there's SOMETHING weird in Cydonia.
>>By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a
>>"face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and
>>accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to
>>Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.
>> --Tog
>>
>>P.S. If it _isn't_ natural...
>
> Just out of curiosity....I don't have the picture of the Mars face handy,
>but I believe almost half the face is obscured in shadow, am I right? If this
>is so, you are on very shaky ground claiming perfect bilateral symmetry for
>something that you can only see half of. The other obscured half may just
>look like a big rock.
And as to "accurate proportions," unless the feature is VERY recent, the face
has WAY too much forehead.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <109504.299B1A8A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 14 Feb 92 00:18:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
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> >What is your definition of astronomy?
>
> OK, I would be willing to accept "knowledge gained about
> extraterrestrial
> visitors" (assuming such to exist) as falling under "astronomy". And I
> am reasonably confident that any astronomer would, too.
>
> Now all the UFOlogists have to do is convince astronomers that they
> have *anything at all* to teach us about ETI!
> --
>
> Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
For the sake of clarity, let us begin by defining what each of us mean by
"UFOlogist" and "ETI." Although I have used the term "UFOlogist" in postings,
etc., I do not recognize that word nor do I think that it is an accepted
descriptor among astronomers. I may be wrong, but I have never found that to
be true. Second, I assume that the "ETI" represents the "Extra-Terrestrial
Hypothesis." Assuming this to be true, I state that since there has never
been an accepted body of scientific persons convened in any formal manner to
even postulate such a thing, although Hynek postulated such a thing during his
time, as well as others in the scientific community, but again, never
formally. Thusly, I am not sure that "ETI" could even be intelligently
discussed at this point. Going back to the term "UFOlogist," we have such
personas as Milton William Cooper, John Lear, Budd Hopkins, and a host of
others, completely without scientific credentials, stating with almost
absolute conviction that we are dealing with aliens. But, when it comes down
to proving such things, there is none. These people call themselves
"UFOlogists." The overall problem here is that we have a group of people who
are attempting to make sense out of a very complex problem without the ability
of education, training or discipline.
The study of this phenomena requires a forensic approach. Forensics, as you
know, is an accepted science, and is very effective at arriving at the truth
where certain elements might be missing, changed or altered. It has been
proven time and again, so much so, that it is utilized in criminal justice and
can convict someone of a serious crime.
I also liken the study of UFOs to a person who is ill and in need of medical
attention. They have certain symptoms, which when combined, can be any host
of diseases. However, they don't go to the next door neighbor for diagnosis
and treatment of their ailment. They go to an accredited physician, who,
after performing certain tests, can usually diagnose and treat the ailment.
In the case of UFOs, we have a number of people, most credible, reporting
strange anomalies in the sky, on the ground, some leaving physical traces in
the form of burn marks, indentations, and so forth, but no one with any
critical training to interpret the data. In the entire modern history of the
reported phenomena, there has never been anything really done to analyze the
data and intelligently interpret it, although some like Hynek made the effort
to do so. To complicate the issue, we have seen it demonstrated that an
official organ of the United States Government was setting policy to deal with
the sightings of objects, not from a scientific standpoint, but from a defense
or militaristic standpoint. It is well known that although the Air Force
claimed publicly that UFOs were not real, they contracted for several million
dollars with such noted institutions as the Battelle Memorial Institute,
Northrop, and others to scientifically study the phenomena. But, these
relationships were defense contract items, not subject to the scrutiny of the
main-stream scientific community or the general public. To my knowledge,
there has never been a report forthcoming from any of these groups concerning
the findings, or non-findings of their research. Hynek's chief complaint was
that the main-stream scientific community was being excluded from the research
that was being conducted by the "insiders."
Therefore, in my opinion, we must ditch all the past perceptions of the
phenomena, and approach it with a new outlook. A formal body of study should
be convened and the establishment of approved standards enacted to govern the
research. This will surely weed out the charlatans that are so common today.
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: tom.delosh@med.umich.edu (Tom DeLosh)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Book: Cry of the Phoenix - part 2/18
Message-ID: <j6J+DdB@engin.umich.edu>
Date: 14 Feb 92 18:51:51 GMT
References: <1992Feb9.122724.27118@bilver.uucp>
Distribution: local iex dfw tx usa na world
Organization: University of Michigan
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In article <1992Feb9.122724.27118@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:
>
>
>
>
> =====>> Cry Of The Phoenix part 2 <<=============================
>
> <lots 'o stuff deleted>
I suspect that this 'book' was plagiarized from a bottle of Dr. Bronner's
peppermint soap :)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!john
From: john@anasaz (John Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <1992Feb13.170623.4481@anasaz>
Date: 13 Feb 92 17:06:23 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA
Lines: 26
Keywords:
In article <1992Feb13.011648.23182@colorado.edu> schiffd@tigger.Colorado.EDU (David M. Schiff) writes:
]There's an interesting article in the Feb. 1, '92 issue of
]Science News (vol. 141) on crop circles. In fact they chose
]to grace the cover of the issue with a picture of a big, complicated
]crop circle.
]
] A retired astronomer, named Gerald S. Hawkins, claims that the
]crop designs imply important mathematical theorems. As I've indicated
]earlier, this is not the first time somebody noticed this.
]The thing that makes this interesting is that these are (according to him)
]previously unknown theorems which he discovered by looking at pictures of
]the designs and later proved. He searched both ancient and modern mathematics
]textbooks but couldn't find anything even resembling these theorems.
The problem I had with the article is that, although it claimed that
the creators of the crop circles had to know those previously unknown
theorems, I could find no evidence of that in the article itself.
Has anyone been able to decrypt the article enough to understand
that conclusion?
--
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326)
ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john john@anasaz.UUCP anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
- - Tree Hugger's Nightmare: Mt. Graham Red Squirrel Stew ...
- - Have you ever tried looking at the stars through a squirrel? - - -
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From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins
Subject: Alibi Mentality
Keywords: mistake, UFOs, psi, creationism
Message-ID: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
Date: 14 Feb 92 12:53:04 GMT
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-------------------------------------------------------------
When you followup to this, please edit the newsgroups line if
you want to relate only to some of the subjects!
-------------------------------------------------------------
There is common mistake in thinking I call Alibi Mentality,
which can be described like this:
"The butler has an alibi, the maid has an alibi, the chauffeur
has an alibi - Sergeant, arrest the gardener! I didn't like
that guy, anyway."
That is, one disposes of all possibilities one can think of,
except one (perhaps one's favourite), and declares that the
solution, because it seems to be the only remaining possibility,
without taking into consideration that there could be other
explanations one didn't think of.
This mistake turns up in discussions about UFOs, psi,
creationism, and probably a lot of other subjects.
In the UFO debate it is an intrinsic component. When you hear
UFO, you immediately think "alien spaceship". That way of
association leads to quotes such as this:
In article <109504.299B1A8A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael Corbin writes:
>[..] although the Air Force
>claimed publicly that UFOs were not real [..]
Note: I don't want to say that Michael made a mistake here, but
that the usage is that way.
Real UFOs, Really Unidentified Flying Objects, contrary to
those flying objects that just *seem* to be unidentified?
No, the meaning is "UFOs that really *are* UFOs, that is, alien
spaceships" (or replace "alien spaceship" with your favourite
explanation).
When you watch psychics reading thoughts, bending knifes, or
telling you things they really shouldn't know, you think a
while for a mundane explanation, and if you don't find any
trick that could have done it (because you are no illusionist)
you think it must have been a paranormal phenomenon.
In December, a long list of pro-creationism arguments was
posted on talk.origins, and some of them ran along the line
"This and that effect you can't explain with evolution".
Even if that had been correct (most of the arguments were just
plain wrong), it would have been no argument in favor of
creationism, but only a disproof of the current model.
This "Alibi Mentality" is clearly a sign of overestimation
of oneself, since it implies that is impossible that there
are explanations one didn't think of.
What do think?
Do you have a better name?
Do you have other examples?
--
-Caddy------(thomas kettenring, kaiserslautern, germany)--------
-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth---Stolen
-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth-----from
-I will not waste bandwidth--I will not waste bandwidth--Matt G.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!jasonp
From: jasonp@cs.uq.oz.au ( Jason Pouflis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I know what's real, don't I?
Message-ID: <6780@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>
Date: 13 Feb 92 10:04:18 GMT
References: <1992Feb12.002547.23168@cadence.com>
Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au
Reply-To: jasonp@cs.uq.oz.au
Lines: 10
Look into something called night terrors.
If I remember correctly,
This is a natural function of the autonomous nervous system,
to wake you so that you can start thinking/breathing/functioning again.
--
Ciao,
Jason
jasonp@cs.uq.oz.au
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From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: TEST POST: Please Respond
Message-ID: <9202142126.AA27523@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Date: 14 Feb 92 21:26:26 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
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We don't get this newsgroup here at Stratus in California. I have to use
Email just to get anything posted anywhere as we aren't allowed to post either.
If this makes it in, someone PLEASE Email me ASAP! I have files that I would
like to send to this group. Also if someone would be kind enough to possibly
send me a list of topics already covered so far I would be grateful.
Thank You,
Len
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From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars-face view from Hoaghland concerning Cydonia
Message-ID: <5594@shodha.enet.dec.com>
Date: 14 Feb 92 15:09:13 GMT
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In article <1992Feb14.014130.27576@midway.uchicago.edu>, keho@quads.uchicago.edu (david kehoe) writes...
>The story I read about the Mars face was much more interesting:
>in the late 1940's a Japanese-American sculptor wanted to carve
>a giant face out a hill, which would be titled "View of the Face
>on Mars." He didn't get to do it, but he made a model, which
>supposedly looks just like the photo from Mars, and the full-sized
>sculpture would be the same size as the one one Mars.
Well it's a BS story because this supposed face on Mars was only
photgraphed for the first time by satallite orbiting Mars. No
telescope in existance then or now can photograph this "HILL."
STeve
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From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <1992Feb15.031707.29226@spdcc.com>
Date: 15 Feb 92 03:17:07 GMT
References: <9202142304.AA28308@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Organization: insert anything here
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lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363) writes:
> The following posting is a summary written by my friend and
> co-worker, Drew LePage, of an article in the January 1992 issue of
> the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS), Volume 45,
> Number 1. Titled "An Estimate of the Prevalence of Biocompatible
> and Habitable Planets", it is authored by M. J. Fogg.
> ########################################################################
>
All well and good except if you're looking for life you have
to eliminate all the stars younger than about 3 Gyr... That limits
things quite a bit... Exorcising the stars with low probabilities
(from the other contraints...)...
> Name Distance (LY) Type Habitable Biocompatible
> Alpha Centauri A 4.38 G2V 7.8% 44%
> Alpha Centauri B 4.38 K6V 4.4% 38%
These two are old (7Gyr)
> Epsilon Eridani 10.69 K2V 0.6% 34%
Too young - only 1 Gyr
> 61 Cygni A 11.17 K5V 0.0% 5.8%
> 61 Cygni B 11.17 K7V 0.0% 0.3%
These two are weird astrophysically. Although they are a "real"
double system, they don't act alike age-wise in a couple of different
ways... Of course they're almost M stars, so the rules that you apply
for solar-like stars gets stretched a little thin by the time you get to
this red... Age-wise, they're intermediate 2-3 Gyr...
> Tau Ceti 11.95 G8V 1.5% 35%
Another weird star... activity-wise its one of the least
chromospherically active stars, and most certainly so for stars later
than G5... Probably old --- 3-4 Gyr.
> 70 Ophiuchi A 16.73 K1 4.4% 38%
> 70 Ophiuchi B 16.73 K6 0.0% 16%
Too young... (~1 Gyr)
> 36 Ophiuchi A 17.73 K0V 0.0% 28%
> 36 Ophiuchi B 17.73 K1V 0.0% 27%
> 36 Ophiuchi C 17.73 K5V 0.0% 9.0%
too young... (~1 Gyr)
> HR 7703 A 18.43 K3V 0.0% 27%
don't know
> Sigma Draconis 18.53 K0V 1.5% 35%
Not bad, actually - just under 3.0Gyr
> Delta Pavonis 18.64 G5 5.1% 39%
don't know
> Eta Cassiopeiae A 19.19 G0V 3.9% 38%
Pretty good --- 4.6 Gyr
> 82 Eridani 20.9 G5 4.4% 38%
don't know
> Beta Hydri 21.3 G1 7.5% 35%
This one is old - something like 9Gyr...
> HR 8832 21.4 K3 0.0% 23%
don't know
I don't see Zeta 1,2 Ret (6Gyr?) on this list, nor HD 81809 (5 Gyr?)
both of which are "good" candidates mass/age-wise... Both are also binaries,
but are well-separated. I'm sure there are others, HD 141004 (Lambda Ser)
comes to mind... HD 12235, but that's also weird (some people think it's
a subgiant [old] others think it's very young...)... HD 103095 (grmb 1830)
is definitely old...
Ages are estimated from rotation and/or chromospheric emission...
Not perfect, but not bad to 1Gyr or so... younger stars are easier
to pick off than older ones...
As you can see --- you can whittle down the list fairly quickly
even among G stars... But there are still some physically "good
candidates" although no star yet has been found that matches the Sun
all that well! (So much for the Astro 101 textbook addage 'the Sun is
a typical run-of-the-mill G dwarf...).
BD
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From: CSYSPCN@mvs.oac.ucla.edu (CSYSPCN)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality
Message-ID: <19920214090402CSYSPCN@mvs.oac.ucla.edu>
Date: 14 Feb 92 17:08:06 GMT
References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
Sender: MVS NNTP News Reader <NNMVS@mvs.oac.ucla.edu>
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Nntp-Posting-Host: mvs.oac.ucla.edu
>
>What do think?
>Do you have a better name?
>Do you have other examples?
>
I like it, it rings true. I don't have a better name, but I've heard
a more restricted varient called "Our Ancestors - the dummys" which
is applied by those who assume that ancient cultures couldn't have
had engeneering skills sufficient to build the pyramids, etc.
A related varient that I call Barnums Razor goes: Given two equally
likely hypothisis choose the one whith the highest Gee-Wiz factor.
So a UFO becomes an alien spaceship, rather than an unidentified
phenomenon of local origin.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!amdcad!netcomsv!sheaffer
From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <1992Feb14.232049.22336sheaffer@netcom.COM>
Date: 14 Feb 92 23:20:49 GMT
References: <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
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In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>Are you referring to all UFO events, or only those where witnesses claim
>to have seen occupants?
Any explanation for the supposed phenomenon must be able to accomodate
all aspects of it. Therefore, any explanation for UFOs insufficiently bizarre
to account for "little men coming out of flying craft" simply won't
do. Except, of course, for the 'null hypothesis': "all those wonderful
but unsubstantiated stories are not true."
>What is relevant is that there is an apparent need by many sceptics to
>"diminish" the unknown aspects of the phenomenon by constantly alluding
>to space aliens and flying saucers.
Excuse me, what is the *name* of this newsgroup?
Was it a skeptic that named it?
Is it skeptics that fill it with lurid tales of encounters with man-eating
Grays???
>
>Incidentally, are you aware that Vallee became interested in studying this
>phenomenon when he found astronomers destroying observation data of UFO
>events that they could not explain?
Yes, this *sounds* so abominable, but as I heard him explain this, what
I heard him really say was: 'there was this data on a tape that I
wanted to keep, but they wanted to re-use the tape'. So excuse me if I'm
not convinced it's as sinister as you suggest.
--
Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
"The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
- Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
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From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <1992Feb14.233017.23110sheaffer@netcom.COM>
Date: 14 Feb 92 23:30:17 GMT
References: <109504.299B1A8A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
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Fine. If you can convince the Congress, the President, the National
Academy of Sciences, or whoever, that some "fresh look" at UFOs
is either necessary or desirable, the go for it.
But you'd better have something NEW to offer up, because the same old
Virtual Evidence is getting pretty stale after nearly forty-five years.
--
Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
"The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
- Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
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From: pisces@cs.mcgill.ca (L. M. P. McPherson)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins
Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality
Keywords: mistake, UFOs, psi, creationism
Message-ID: <1992Feb15.033429.8688@cs.mcgill.ca>
Date: 15 Feb 92 03:34:29 GMT
References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
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In article <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de> kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes:
>
>There is common mistake in thinking I call Alibi Mentality,
>which can be described like this:
>
>That is, one disposes of all possibilities one can think of,
>except one (perhaps one's favourite), and declares that the
>solution, because it seems to be the only remaining possibility,
>without taking into consideration that there could be other
>explanations one didn't think of.
>Do you have a better name?
I believe another name for this is the "fallacy of the false dilemma." It is
an either/or mentality. If creationism is wrong, then evolution is right
(or vice versa). This error pervades all areas of science, and leads to much
fruitless discussion. There are always possibilities other than those we
have considered, and more often than not, the correct path is one upon which
we have never trod. One can never find support for one theory by crushing
others! One has to address the predictions of the theory itself.
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From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes? NOT!
Message-ID: <q1-hsbk@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 15 Feb 92 06:43:13 GMT
References: <9202142258.AA28258@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 64
In article <9202142258.AA28258@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363) writes:
>
>
>THE CHAIRMAN'S CORNER BY JOHN FORD
>
>
> SOMETHING IS COMING OUR WAY!
>
>
> This is such a story. As yet no evidence exists to support it, yet I
>have a gut feeling that something might be to it. Only time will tell if the
>evidence or a coming event will prove its veracity.
No evidence? Then what's this below?
>
> It seems that in 1987, NASA picked up the presence of a very large
>planetoid object entering our solar system near the area of Pluto. It was
>first detected by Voyager and later confirmed by telescope observations both
>radio and optical. The object is very large, measuring over a thousand miles
>in diameter or even larger.
Which Voyager? I don't think either of them would be able to do
this.
>
> The object has been under constant observation since. It was last
>reported in the area of Jupiter. That last position was of January of this
>year. It was observed to be leaving a very long Ionization trail behind it.
>The object has made at least three mid course corrections, by the way.
Boy, no evidence, but it's made three course changes? Where is
this crap coming from?
>
>concealed by public announcements that the missions are being deployed to
>photograph distant stars or the Sun's corona. The Hubble telescope doesn't
>work and needs to be repaired, yet it is pointed straight out there and can
>return pictures through computer enhancement.
The Hubble does work. Has for a while. It just doesn't work
to its original specs.
>
> I have had the story confirmed by George Dickson and Mike Crystal,
>(Christol, my corrected spelling) both reputable U.F.O. Researchers of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>impeccable reputation, through independent contacts in the
Sounds like an oxymoron.
> The object may soon be seen by the average person as time advances. It
>may not be so easy then to conceal the truth from the public.
>
With such EVIDENCE, it may not be so easy to keep a straight face.
--
Phred Platypus [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ]
"Technology is a way of organizing \
the universe so that man doesn't \ The Grammarian of Vengeance
have to experience it." -- Max Frisch \
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From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Something Wicked This Way Comes?
Message-ID: <9202142258.AA28258@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Date: 14 Feb 92 22:58:57 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Lines: 223
Sorry if some of this has been here before. Some of this is new.
Len
===============================================================================
Thu 30 May 91 19:29
By: Mike Christol
Re: Something is Coming
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following information is taken directly form the April issue of The Long
Island U.F.O. Update, the monthly bulletin for the Long Island UFO Network.
THE CHAIRMAN'S CORNER BY JOHN FORD
SOMETHING IS COMING OUR WAY!
In Ufology, you hear a lot of strange stories. Some you have to take
at face value, while others are too far fetched to believe even in this
strange study of unusual objects and humanoid beings. Some stories you mark
off as holding merit, but lack supporting evidence to bolster their
credability until a later date when something might surface which could prove
their validity.
This is such a story. As yet no evidence exists to support it, yet I
have a gut feeling that something might be to it. Only time will tell if the
evidence or a coming event will prove its veracity.
It seems that in 1987, NASA picked up the presence of a very large
planetoid object entering our solar system near the area of Pluto. It was
first detected by Voyager and later confirmed by telescope observations both
radio and optical. The object is very large, measuring over a thousand miles
in diameter or even larger.
The object has been under constant observation since. It was last
reported in the area of Jupiter. That last position was of January of this
year. It was observed to be leaving a very long Ionization trail behind it.
The object has made at least three mid course corrections, by the way.
That is peculiar for a planetoid object like an asteroid to do. It
sounds as if it is not what it appears to be. It sounds like it is under
intelligent control. Its orbit will bring it into Earth's orbit by late 1992
or early 1993. What it is, is anyone's guess.
Linda Moulton Howe has reported this story to us. She had it confirmed
by a Pentagon Military Officer. The story relayed to her indicates that the
Government is keeping it a secret and is tracking it through the auspices of
the Jet Propulsion Laboratories and McDonald Douglas' facilities. The object
is being tracked by the Hubble telescope and several of the recent infra-red
telescopes recently lofted by various Space Shuttle Missions. All of this
concealed by public announcements that the missions are being deployed to
photograph distant stars or the Sun's corona. The Hubble telescope doesn't
work and needs to be repaired, yet it is pointed straight out there and can
return pictures through computer enhancement.
I have had the story confirmed by George Dickson and Mike Crystal,
(Christol, my corrected spelling) both reputable U.F.O. Researchers of
impeccable reputation, through independent contacts in the
Scientific-Military establishment.
The object may soon be seen by the average person as time advances. It
may not be so easy then to conceal the truth from the public.
Consider this too. Our Moon's orbit has condensed by three thousand
miles while the Earth's axis has tilted slightly as if pushed ever so gently
by the invisible hand of a tremendous gravitational field. Have you noticed
the strange weather patterns we have been having lately?
U.F.O. Abductees recount their experiences with the authority that
something very big will happen in the next several years. Whatever it is,
they can't recall it, but they know the event will occur.
Is something coming our way? Is this one of those stories to mark
away?
-END-
Now, the "official" word is that SS433 (Stephenson-Saundeleak) is
a very odd-behaviour type pulsar...but it would appear, that this
is a cover for the above-mentioned article. This article,BTW, appeared
on the MUFONET HQ BBS and Mike Christol is a very credible/reliable
MUFON investigator.
However, this is such a *hot* topic, that even a glancing mention of
this on either the UFO echoes of the BBS world, or the Internet will most
certainly guarantee you a gold class invite to a royal flaming.
Have you figured out how the Govt intends to do this?
Here's a clue...
Project SETI has been chosen to be the point organization that will
announce to the world a "discovery"..it will be that they have
established communication with an "alien race" (the lower Greys). The
Greys will "land" at either Whitesands in NM, or at Area 51 in Nevada.
(e.g. an effect like a low efficiency rocket). This in turn would perturb the
comet orbits, resulting in a "comet shower" of the sort associated with the
extenction of the dinasours. (That is, a large number of comets, whose orbit
now carries them into the inner solar system, and a resulting increase in the
probability of comet inpacts with the Earth).
A local amature astronomer, John Hewitt(sp?), has written a paper on the
subject. He is also of the five amature astronomers to recieve observing time
on the Space Telescope, to look for a similar vaporization (and UV glow) from
hypothetical comets around the next, nearby nova.
Frank Crary
UC Berkeley
Article 15719 of sci.astro:
Subject: Mystery Object of Thursday, 12/5
Message-ID: <TOM.91Dec11120040@kether.webo.dg.com>
Date: 11 Dec 91 18:00:40 GMT
Sender: usenet@webo.dg.com (Usenet Administration)
Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp.
Lines: 73
Xref: lassie sci.astro:15719
I've seen nothing on the net regarding this, but I found this in the
Globe:
Without permission from the Boston Globe, 12/7, page 13:
Mystery object eludes astronomers
By David L. Chandler, Globe Staff
The unidentified object that hurtled past Earth before dawn on
Thursday remains a mystery, astronomers said yesterday, and it
apparently slipped by without them getting a good look.
A week ago, astronomers had decided that the tiny object,
which passed slightly farther away from Earth than the moon's distance
of 240,000 miles, was probably an asteroid -- a chunk of
interplanetary rock probably less than 30 feet across [BUT, read on!].
But observations on Monday by European astronomers working in
Chile showed dramatic variations in brightness which suggest an
irregularly shaped, tumbling object with great variations in its
surface reflectivity, much more so than expected for a natural object
like an asteroid, said Brian Marsden, an astronomer.
Marsden, director of the Cambridge-based International
Astronomical Union's Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams and Minor
Planet Center, said yesterday that the variation in brightness "means
we are dealing with some very peculiar object. I would say man-made.
I think it wold be hard to explain this kind of variation with a
natural object, even a small one."
But Marsden and others are still puzzling over what kind of
man-made object it is.
Marsden said two weeks ago that it was probably the leftover
Centaur rocket used in 1974 to launch a sun-observing satellite called
Helios. But more precise calculations of the object's orbit, based on
the latest observations, show that, traced backwards, it never quite
meets Earth, as it should if it had been launched from Earth.
There is a possible explaination for that descrepancy, Marsden
said: Centaur rockets sometimes contain leftover hydrogen fuel after
they reach orbit, and this fuel could continue to leak out, perhaps
for years. This could propel the rocket in unpredictable directions,
like air escaping from a balloon that send it careening aound a room.
During its closest approach to Earth on Thursday, the object
was too far south to be visible from anywhere in the northern
hemisphere. Astronomers at the European Southern Observatory in Chile
tried to get pictures of it shortly after its closest approach in
order to get more precise data on its exact path and to make further
measurements of its brightness variations.
But as of yesterday, they were unable to find any sign of the
object in their pictures.
Because of the difficulty of the observation and the faintness
of the object, astronomers Richard West and Oliver Hainaut at the
observatory in the Chilean Andes continued to examine their images
carefully yesterday.
These observations are essential to guarantee the success of a
planned radar observation of the object when it returns to visibility
in the northern hemisphere next week. A successful radar observations
"would clinch it" as to whether the object is natural or artificial,
Marsden said.
"I was hoping it would be natural," said Marsden, because that
would make it a very unusual type of asteroid and the smallest ever
detected, and therefore interesting to astronomers. But because of
the brightness changes seen this week, he is now "90 percent sure"
that it is artificial.
Because of the uncertain movements of a rocket leaking
leftover fuel, however, it may never be possible to identify it as a
specific rocket.
If it is artificial but not any known rocket, that might
explain the astronomers' inability to locate it in their pictures,
Marsden joked.
"Maybe that's why they couldn't be found last night," he said.
"Maybe they landed."
Tom
Article 17219 of sci.astro:
Path: lassie!voder!pyramid!gossip.pyramid.com!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpl-opus!hpnmdla!hpsad!paulc
From: paulc@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Paul Christensen X3073)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Wheres the Bolide?
Message-ID: <1700006@hpsad.sad.hp.com>
Date: 11 Feb 92 06:54:18 GMT
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA
Lines: 16
Hey all!
I heard in Dec that there was a large (3mi diam) object coming toward
earth... Some guy from NASA was saying that it was about
a year away.. He called it something like Tutautus????
Anyone up on this stuff?
If so, How close will it get??? <shiver>
(Where's my ticket to MARS??)
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Paul Christensen | Email( Unix ) paulc@hpsad.sad.hp.com |
| (707)794-3073 | HPDESK Paul Christensen / HP5300/A0 |
+---------------------- HP MicroElectronics ----------------------------+
----- End Included Message -----
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From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Testable Unified Field and Electromagnetics
Message-ID: <9202142300.AA28268@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Date: 14 Feb 92 23:00:20 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Lines: 911
Article 22901 of sci.physics:
Path: lassie!voder!apple!netcomsv!noring
From: noring@netcom.COM (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics
Subject: "On a Testable Unification of EM, GR, and QM" by T.E. Bearden (LONG)
Message-ID: <1992Feb04.074857.9686noring@netcom.COM>
Date: 4 Feb 92 07:48:57 GMT
Followup-To: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 896
Xref: lassie sci.physics:22901
[This paper appeared in the 26th IECEC Conference, as past posts have
mentioned. Posted with the permission of T.E. Bearden. See my prior
post for more information. J.Noring]
ON A TESTABLE UNIFICATION OF ELECTROMAGNETICS, GENERAL RELATIVITY, AND
QUANTUM MECHANICS
T. E. Bearden
Association of Distinguished American Scientists
2311 Big Cove Road
Huntsville, Alabama 35801
Walter Rosenthal
4876 Bethany Lane
Santa Maria, California 93455
Abstract
Unrecognized for what it was, in 1903-1904 E.T. Whittaker (W) published a
fundamental, engineerable theory of electrogravitation (EG) in two profound
papers. The first (W-1903) demonstrated a hidden bidirectional EM wave
structure in the scalar potential of vacuum, and showed how to produce a
standing scalar EM potential wave -- the same wave discovered experimentally
four years earlier by Nikola Tesla. W-1903 is a hidden variable theory that
shows how to deterministically curve the local and/or distant space-time using
EM. W-1904 shows that all force field EM can be replaced by interferometry
of two scalar potentials, anticipating the Aharonov-Bohm effect by 55 years
and extending it to the engineerable macroscopic world. W-1903 shows how to
turn EM into G-potential, curve local and/or distant space-time, and directly
engineer the virtual particle flux of vacuum. W-1904 shows how to turn
G-potential and curvature of space-time back into force-field EM, even at a
distance. The papers implement Sakharov's 1968 statement that gravitation is
not a fundamental field of nature, but a conglomerate of other fields.
Separately applied to electromagnetics (EM), quantum mechanics (QM), and
general relativity (GR), an extended superset of each results. The three
supersets are Whittaker-unified, so that a testable, engineerable, unified
field theory is generated. EM, QM, and GR each contained a fundamental error
that blocked unification, and these three errors are explained. The
Schroedinger potential can also be structured and altered, indicating the
direct engineering of physical quantum change. Recently Ignatovich has
pointed out this hidden bidirectional EM wave structure in the Schroedinger
potential, without referencing Whittaker's 1903 discovery of the basic effect.
The potential for applying the new approach to explain the nature of mind and
thought, and providing a laboratory-testable theory for them, is briefly
noted and indicative major references cited. Some of the possible
implications for physics and biology are pointed out.
Electromagnetics Has Foundations Difficulties
There exists today a small but growing number of scientists who have become
aware that the presently accepted electromagnetic theory is seriously flawed.
Shortcomings in the theory are readily cited. For example, in railgun
experiments the Lorentz force law has been falsified. It was always an
approximation, and does not adequately approximate at high energies. [ref. 1]
Also completely contrary to orthodox EM theory, the EM force fields are not
primary agents at all, but are effects produced in and on the physical system
by the potentials. As an example, we cite the Aharonov-Bohm (AB) effect,
which proves that, even in the total absence of the force fields, the
potentials remain and can interfere at a distance to produce real effects in
charged particle systems. [ref. 2] The AB effect has been proven to the
satisfaction of all but the most diehard skeptics. [ref. 3] However, its
fundamental impact on the basic notions underlying classical EM theory
continues to be ignored by all but a handful of scientists.
These EM shortcomings were not present in the original quaternion EM theory
by James Clerk Maxwell. [ref. 4] Indeed, the original Maxwell theory
contains many things that were mistakenly eliminated from the abbreviated
vector theory formulated primarily by Heaviside and Gibbs, and to a lesser
extent by Hertz. [ref. 5] Further, these things that do not exist in
conventional EM theory, but that exist in Maxwell's actual quaternion theory,
can be used in specially designed equipment, and the operation of that
equipment will be inexplicable by present-day electromagnetic theory.
AB-effect laboratory apparatuses are in fact rigorous demonstrations of such
a statement.
Scalar Electromagnetics
This can be even further explained and developed experimentally according to
Whittaker's fundamental approach. [ref. 6] In a modern sense, in 1903/1904
Whittaker theoretically showed how to engineer the scalar potential with a
highly dynamic, hidden, bidirectional EM wave structure, to build hidden EM
vacuum engines that are still unsuspected in modern physics today. Much of
the content of the fundamental 1959 Aharonov/Bohm paper was anticipated in a
different manner, and dramatically extended in an engineerable, testable
fashion, by Whittaker's two papers. At the time, however, the vector
phi(x) |
|
|
|
|
|
Potential | + +
| + +
| + +
| + EM +
| + Substructure +
| + +
| + +
|+_______________________________+_______________________________+__
+ +
+ EM +
+ Substructure +
+ +
+ +
+ +
+ +
Figure 1. A Standing Scalar EM Potential Whittaker Wave.
interpretation of Maxwell's EM theory was just slowly beginning to spread as
the adopted model. Also, special and general relativity and quantum
mechanics had not yet been born. Accordingly, considering the scientific
understanding of the day, it was not possible for any scientist, even
Whittaker himself, to perceive the potential future impact these fundamental
papers could have on sciences and technologies not yet even born.
Unfortunately, in later years Whittaker apparently never realized that his
two earlier papers had such application to the modern unification problem.
Indeed, up to the time of Whittaker's death, very few scientists even
concerned themselves with the notion of unified fields.
Turning EM Energy Into G-Potential Energy
In his 1903 paper Whittaker showed that a standing scalar potential wave can
be decomposed into a special set of bidirectional EM waves that convolute
into a standing scalar potential wave, as shown in Figure 1. As a corollary,
a set of bidirectional EM waves, stress waves, can be constructed to form a
standing scalar potential wave in space, as shown in Figure 2. Since all
potentials represent trapped energy density of vacuum, they are gravitational
[Note, Figure 2 is too complicated to reproduce here in ASCII]
Figure 2. Whittaker's Bidirectional EM Plane Wave Structure.
in nature. [ref. 7] Because it represents a "standing wave" whose magnitude
represents the variation in the local energy density of the vacuum, the
Whittaker scalar potential wave represents a standing wave of variation in
the local curvature of vacuum, sharply in contradiction to the assumptions of
present electromagnetics and general relativity. [ref. 8] It also represents
a standing wave of the variation of the local gauge.
Turning G-Potential Back to EM
The very next year, Whittaker's second paper (cited above) showed how to turn
such G-potential wave energy back into EM energy, even at a distance, by
scalar potential interferometry, anticipating and greatly expanding the
Aharonov-Bohm effect. Indeed, Whittaker's second paper shows that the entire
present force-field electromagnetics can be directly replaced with scalar
potential interferometry. In other words, scalar EM includes and extends the
present restricted vector subset of Maxwell's original theory.
Engineering the Nucleus Directly
Whittaker's work is even more striking when one realizes that potentials are
actually part of the vacuum itself. They pervade through the electron shells
of an atom, directly reaching the nucleus and centering on it. Gross
external changes (gradients; force fields) of the potentials interact
primarily with the electron shells of the atom. The stabilized (persistent,
gradient-free) potential's primary interaction is with the atomic nucleus.
Specifically, the primary interaction between the infolded, internalized EM
bidirectional wave structure of a Whittaker potential is with the atomic
nuclei, rather than with the atom's electron shells, because in the standing
Whittaker potential wave the local magnitude of the external potential is not
changing. Whittaker has in fact shown that there exists an unsuspected,
hidden, internal EM energy exchange channel between nuclei, a channel where
EM energy flows bidirectionally, undetected by most modern detectors.
Unlimited types of Whittaker-structures can be produced in the laboratory in
the form of deterministically structured potentials; for the first time, the
direct engineering, structuring, and manipulation of the nuclear potentials
themselves, even with miniscule EM power, is possible. This is a new
capability of exceptional importance and application. The Whittaker
structuring in effect allows one to produce a "virtual grid" to place in the
violent virtual particle flux (VPF) exchange of the local vacuum with the
nucleus. By simply holding the grid signal constant, gradually the nuclear
potential itself will substructure (activate) with the same structure. When
the activating ("charging") potential is removed, the activation of the
nucleus will gradually "decay" back to the normal structure. Just as one
example, the binding energy of an atomic nucleus is accessible and,
theoretically, engineerable.
Whittaker Structuring Confirmed
Recently Ignatovich has pointed out the hidden bidirectional EM wave
structure in the Schroedinger potential, without referencing Whittaker's 1903
discovery of the basic effect. [ref. 9] Also, recently modern researchers,
working on acoustic missiles and with the scalar acoustic wave equation, have
"rediscovered" Whittaker's 1903 infolded bidirectional planar waves inside
the scalar wave. [ref. 10] They do not appear to have yet recognized its
relevance to their work in electromagnetic missiles. [ref. 11]
STOCHASTIC ELECTRODYNAMICS
Whittaker's paper takes on a significant new meaning, however, in light of
Sakharov's 1968 hypothesis that gravitation is not a primary field, but is
produced as a result of interactions of other fields. Together with
Whittaker's structured potential, this implies that the gravitational aspects
of the nucleus can also be electromagnetically engineered. As a result of
Sakharov's hypothesis, explosive activity in stochastic electrodynamics (SED)
has shown that many fundamental parts of physics are "already unified" in
terms of electromagnetics and gravitation. Evidence continues to accumulate
that the gravitational field may not be a primary field of nature, but a
secondary or residual effect associated with other non-gravitational fields.
[ref. 12] Actually, general relativity has always focused on energy as the
thing which really has gravitation. Trapped energy, such as mass, is
particularly important. But since mass is essentially trapped EM energy,
relativity has essentially assumed Sakharov's hypothesis anyway, without
stating it so explicitly. Further, GR considers "the" G-potential as a
conglomerate of other things. [ref. 13] It follows that the gradient of that
conglomerate yields a force field which is also a conglomerate.
G-Potential is Electromagnetic
Starting from Sakharov's postulate, to the first order gravitation should be
due to some aspect of the EM field, since EM is the strongest and most
universal force normally encountered in the macroscopic world experimentally,
and since mass is already "trapped EM energy." Thus Sakharov focused
attention upon the zero-point EM energy fluctuations (ZPF) of vacuum.
Sakharov conjectured that the Lagrange function of the G-field is generated
by vacuum polarization, due to fermions. [ref. 14] Akama et al examined the
potential generation of gravity as a collective excitation of fermion-
antifermion pairs. [ref. 15] Haxlacher and Mottolo proved that space-time
(ST) curvature can arise from the quantum fluctuations of pure gauge fields.
[ref. 16] Zee showed that gravity is generated as a symmetry-breaking
effect in quantum field theory in which a dynamical scale-invariance breaking
is postulated to take place at energies near the Planck mass. [ref. 17]
Amati, Veneziano and Yoshimoto showed that in pre-geometric models the
Einstein action and metric may be generated from quantum fluctuations of
matter fields. [ref. 18] A review of the exploding field was given by
Adler, with particular emphasis on the case of renormalizable field theories
with dynamical scale-invariance breaking, in which the induced gravitational
effective action is finite and calculable. [ref. 19]
Puthoff's Important Contribution
Recently Puthoff has applied the Sakharov viewpoint to significantly advance
the stochastic electrodynamics field. He has successfully explained why the
atom's orbital electrons do not decay into the nucleus, even though by
conventional EM theory each electron must constantly radiate EM energy, since
it is constantly accelerated. [ref. 20] He has also shown that gravitation
can indeed be regarded as an induced effect associated with zero-point EM
fluctuations of the vacuum. [ref. 21] He has also shown a feedback-
derivation of the source of the vacuum EM zero-point energy fluctuations
from quantum fluctuation motion of particles driven by the ZPE. [ref. 22]
Quantum fluctuation motion of particles and vacuum ZPE fluctuations are
connected by a causal, self-regenerating cosmological feedback cycle.
Some Conclusions
In light of Whittaker's EM structuring of the potential, there are several
important conclusions to be taken from the important SED work since
Sakharov's seminal suggestion, as follows: (1) In stochastic electrodynamics,
very solid theoretical foundation exists for electrogravitation. (2) The
vacuum EM ZPF may be regarded as causally connected to quantum mechanical
particle jitter (Zitterbewegung motion) and vice versa, though the feedback
mechanism into the virtual particle flux of vacuum is normally hidden by the
large-scale integration represented by any macroscopic object or process.
(3) The SED theoretical demonstration of this hidden mechanism adds new
emphasis on the rather neglected hidden variable theories. (4) In some
fashion, statistical quantum change is chaotic rather than random, for it has
already been shown by Puthoff that the vacuum ZPF fluctuations driving
everything are totally deterministic. It follows that, theoretically, hidden
Whittaker order already exists in quantum change, and quantum change must be
already chaotic and at least partially deterministic. (5) It follows that
there may well exist engineerable mechanisms that can affect or manipulate
quantum change.
Whittaker Potentials Are Engineerable
What Whittaker has described in his 1903 paper is a standing
electrogravitational wave, a standing wave in the local curvature of
space-time itself, that can readily be constructed experimentally. This
Whittaker standing potential wave is precisely the new form of standing EM
wave that Nikola Tesla had experimentally discovered being radiated from a
thunderstorm four years earlier, on the night of July 3-4, 1899, and which he
recorded in his Colorado Springs Notebook on the morning of July 4, 1899.
[ref. 23] Further, Whittaker's paper directly implies that the hidden
variable determinism shown by Puthoff to be driving the zero-point EM
fluctuations can also be engineered, both locally and at a distance.
In short, Whittaker's 1903 paper shows how to turn electromagnetics into
gravitational potential. Unknowingly, Whittaker had already shown the
correct engineering way to unify EM and G fields, and already falsified one
of Einstein's later primary GR assumptions, that the local space-time is never
curved, in a testable manner, a decade before Einstein published his theory
of general relativity.
In the very next year, 1904, Whittaker's second paper (orally presented in
1903) was published. [ref. 24] In this little-noticed paper Whittaker shows
that all classical force field electromagnetics can be replaced by scalar EM
potentials and their interferometry. Specifically, any EM force field can be
replaced by two scalar potential fields and scalar interferometry. The
combination of this paper and the 1903 Mathematische Annalen paper not only
includes the Aharonov-Bohm effect, but specifies a testable method for
producing a macroscopic and controlled Aharanov-Bohm effect, even at large
distances. [ref. 25]
PRESENT ELECTROMAGNETIC THEORY IS INCOMPLETE
As stated above, Maxwell's original EM theory was written in quaternions,
which are an extension to the complex number theory and an independent
system of mathematics. In short, since the quaternion is a hypernumber,
Maxwell's theory was a hyperspatial theory, not just the limited three-
dimensional subset that was extracted and expressed by Heaviside and Gibbs
in terms of an abbreviated, incomplete vector mathematics. [ref. 26]
Heaviside and Gibbs Curtailed Maxwell's Theory
Oliver Heaviside was a brilliant, self-taught genius who never formally
attained a university degree, and whose papers were printed in technical
magazines rather than scientific journals. When Maxwell published his
Treatise in 1873, Heaviside was just teaching himself differential equations.
Heaviside's imagination was completely seized by Maxwell's book, and Maxwell
forever became his hero. However, he had great difficulty with quaternions
and could not completely tolerate them.
Electrogravitation Was Discarded
A puzzled Heaviside abhorred the quaternion, since it linked together a
scalar component and a vector component, or "apples and oranges," in his
view. He excised the scalar component of the quaternion and excluded the
hyperspatial characteristics of its directional components, producing his
much more limited vectors. To unite magnetics and electromagnetics, the
simplest complex aspect of the quaternion had to be restored by resorting to
ordinary imaginary numbers. These machinations to the quaternion theory,
however, discarded its unified field theory aspects. In short, Heaviside
produced a very practical, highly restricted subset that was far easier to
engineer, but he threw out electrogravitation in the process.
Hatred of the Potential
Heaviside hated the potential because he did not truly understand it. He
stated that it was "...mystical and should be murdered from the theory." He
conditioned generations of physicists and engineers to erroneously believe
that the potential was just a mathematical convenience, and had no actual
physical realization. Indeed, most electrical physicists and electrical
engineers are still of that erroneous persuasion today, even though the
Aharonov-Bohm work has long-since falsified such a position, both
theoretically and experimentally.
The Quaternion Theory Was Already a Unified EM/G Theory
The present author has previously pointed out that Maxwell's quaternion
theory was in fact a unified theory of electromagnetics and gravitation, and
that the scalar component of the quaternion was the electrogravitational part.
[ref. 27] That part was discarded by Heaviside and Gibbs, and so
electrogravitation no longer appears in the electromagnetics that resulted
from Heaviside's and Gibbs' surgery on Maxwell's quaternion theory. Strong
experimental evidence for the EG nature of Whittaker's scalar EM theory is
planned for presentation at this conference. [ref. 28]
ELECTROGRAVITATION ALSO EXCLUDED FROM GENERAL RELATIVITY
The electrogravitational effect was also erroneously excluded from
Einsteinian general relativity (GR). Einstein unwittingly narrowed his
general relativity to only a subset of an unrestricted general relativity of
curved space-time, by excluding local curvature. This GR error was an
indirect result of the fundamental Heaviside/Gibbs omission error in
classical electromagnetics.
Einstein's Gedankenexperiment
Unfortunately, Einstein's view of electromagnetics approximated the classical
Heaviside/Gibbs view. In classical EM theory, the electrical potentials,
which actually were electrogravitational potentials, were already ignored as
having no physical significance, and EM was considered mutually exclusive
to G. Therefore, Einstein only considered the weak gravitational force due
to the attraction of mass, in developing his general relativity theory of
curved space-time. The G-force is far weaker than the E-force; for two
electrons, for example, the attractive G-force between them is on the order
of only 10^-42 times as strong as their electrical E-force repulsion. Thus
the G-force is incredibly smaller than the EM force. If only the weak
G-force is considered for curving space-time, then there will never be an
observable curvature except in the immediate vicinity of a very large mass,
such as on the surface of the sun or near a star.
Considering the weak G-force as the agent for curvature, Einstein reasoned
that the laboratory and the observer/scientist/instrument would never be on
the surface of the sun or near a star. Therefore, the local space-time, where
the lab and the scientist/observer and his instruments are, would never be
observably curved. The local space-time of the observer would always be flat.
Unfortunately Einstein then overgeneralized his thought examination, and he
stated one of his fundamental postulates of general relativity as "The local
space-time is always flat." This is an erroneous overstatement. The
postulate should be more correctly stated as follows: "The local space-time is
always flat, whenever only the weak gravitational force is used for the agent
of curvature, and the observer is not near a large collection of mass, such
as a star."
Corollary to the Corrected Postulate
The two statements of the postulate differ fundamentally. Einstein's
overstatement of the postulate does not allow the far stronger EM force to be
used as an agent for local curvature. In effect, his own postulate excluded
electromagnetics from curvature unity with gravitation, in his general
relativity theory. [ref. 29] On the other hand, the corrected statement of
the postulate admits the following corollary: "When a very strong force such
as the electromagnetic force is used for the agent of curvature, the local
space-time may be curved, even though the observer is not near a large
collection of mass, such as a star." [ref. 30]
Regrettably, many of Einstein's modern followers have raised Einstein's
theory to a dogma, and have vigorously enforced his overstatement of the
locally flat space-time. [ref. 31] In so doing, general relativity has been
erroneously reduced to a theory that is basically not experimental:
A priori, if the local space-time is flat, then there is no local experiment
or local apparatus that involves or yields a curved space-time where the
laboratory, the instruments, and the observer are located. In this fashion
the universities have continued to perpetuate the exclusion of
electrogravitation and its direct space-time curvature engineering
implications.
THE CURTAILMENT OF QUANTUM MECHANICS
Today, quantum mechanics is our most successful physics theory. Its
predictions, even the eery prediction of action at a distance, have been
proven time and time again. However, quantum mechanics theory is known to
have a formidable foundations difficulty: Try as they will, quantum
physicists cannot find chaos in the theory. The theory is known to be wrong
unless it possesses chaos (hidden order inside its statistics), yet the best
efforts of quantum physicists have failed to find it. [ref. 32]
Chaos Excluded By Inherent Assumption
Any well-founded mathematical discipline is totally implied by its
foundations postulates, and that is true of quantum mechanics. If the best
efforts of the ablest physicists of the day cannot find chaos in the present
QM, then one may suspect that the present QM does not contain chaos (hidden
order), but already excludes it in some fashion. If that is true, then some
present QM postulate, either explicit or implicit, of QM must be the culprit.
If so, the "real" QM needed is a superset that has at least two subsets: one
(the missing) subset includes chaos, while the present subset excludes chaos.
So we may suspect that one or more of the postulates of the present QM theory
is in error or overly restrictive, and must be changed to allow the missing
chaotic subset.
Gibbs Statistics Excludes Hidden Order
Indeed, we may resolve this formidable QM problem quite simply by examining
the statistics utilized by quantum mechanics. When QM was being formulated,
scientists simply appropriated and included the thermodynamic statistics of
Willard Gibbs (the same Gibbs who, together with Heaviside, was responsible
for the highly restricted vector subset of Maxwell's theory of
electromagnetics.). Gibbs' thermodynamics statistics was totally based on
the notion of the random variable. That is, the change (value assumed by the
variable in a specific instance) is not only totally statistical, it is also
totally random. Quantum physicists assumed a postulate of QM as follows:
"Quantum change is totally statistical." However, because of the Gibbs
statistics, in application they interpreted that postulate in a much stronger
fashion, as if it had been stated thusly: "Quantum change is totally
statistical and random." The actual postulate and the presently applied
interpretation of it are in fact two quite different statements, and the
interpretation is far more restrictive than actually implied by the postulate
itself.
The Random Interpretation Is False
Further, the strong interpretation can readily be falsified. As an example,
the macroscopic universe is simply a large integration (collection) of
quantum changes. If these component quanta occur totally randomly, then no
integration of them would yield the ordered, macroscopic world we all live
in, because integrated randomness is still random. Therefore, since the
ordered macroworld exists, the present QM strong interpretation of its own
statistical quantum change postulate is invalid.
In addition, if quantum change were totally random, then there would never be
any possibility, a priori, of engineering it deterministically. Presently,
almost all quantum physicists believe that quantum change cannot be
engineered, on first principles. On the other hand, if hidden order is
admitted, there is at least the possibility of directly engineering physical
quantum change itself.
Hidden Variables
Interestingly, the renowned physicist David Bohm has shown that a hidden
variable theory of quantum mechanics can actually be constructed, whereby
one could potentially engineer physical change. [ref. 33] It is well-known
that experimental physics does not in any manner refute hidden variable
theories. Because of the historical attachment of physics to the theory of
the random variable, such contrary notions as chaos (hidden order) and
hidden variables have simply been greeted with suspicion and shuffled aside.
The usual objection is Occam's razor; a theory must predict something
different, or it is said to be unwarranted. [ref. 34] But based on this
same form of Occam's overworked razor, the Whittaker hidden variable
approach certainly predicts many profoundly different engineerable effects
and capabilities that mandate its full examination.
Correction of the Statistical Postulate
A much better, valid interpretation of the quantum change postulate is as
follows: "Quantum change is statistical, and may contain hidden order."
The two interpretations differ sharply. In the new and less restrictive
reinterpretation, one has three cases or subsets of QM as follows: (1) the
subset where quantum change contains partial order, hence is already chaotic,
(2) the subset where the internal order has vanished, leaving the statistics
as Gibbs' random variable statistics, and exhibiting the present quantum
mechanics without chaos, and (3) the subset where the statistics is totally
deterministic, but information on the variables is lost.
Remarks On the New Interpretation
The new interpretation is consistent with Bohm's hidden variable theory, and
it is also consistent with the Schroedinger equation, which in the QM model
already propagates the QM states forward in time with absolute determinism.
It is even possible, for example, to deterministically produce a Bohm/
de Broglie quantum potential, according to a self-targeting repetitive phase
conjugation mechanism advanced by this author. [ref. 35] The new
interpretation is not consistent with the Copenhagen interpretation, which
only applies to the present QM subset. This can be seen as follows: If
quantum change is engineerable by Whittaker hidden variables, then the inner
contents of the engineered quantum change are known. This knowledge applies
to the subset where QM change is engineered (the new subset), but not to the
subset where all variables are random variables and hence not subject to
engineering. Therefore the Copenhagen interpretation applies to the random
quantum change subset, but not to chaotic (partially ordered) quantum change
subset.
The New Interpretation Is Testable
Happily, the reinterpretation of the postulate now allows a sufficient
collection of already-chaotic quantum changes to produce the well-ordered,
macroscopic universe we all live in. Also, the new interpretation is
testable, and it can be falsified or verified in the laboratory.
THE END RESULT OF ABBREVIATING MAXWELL'S THEORY
Effect On EM
In discarding the scalar component of the quaternion, Heaviside and Gibbs
unwittingly discarded the unified EM/G portion of Maxwell's theory that
arises when the translational/directional components of two interacting
quaternions reduce to zero, but the scalar resultant remains and infolds a
deterministic, dynamic structure that is a function of oppositive
directional/translational components. In the infolding of EM energy inside
a scalar potential, a structured scalar potential results, almost precisely
as later shown by Whittaker but unnoticed by the scientific community. The
simple vector equations produced by Heaviside and Gibbs captured only that
subset of Maxwell's theory where EM and gravitation are mutually exclusive.
In that subset, electromagnetic circuits and equipment will not ever, and
cannot ever, produce gravitational or inertial effects in materials and
equipments. Not a single one of those Heaviside/Gibbs equations ever
appeared in a paper or book by James Clerk Maxwell, even though the severely
restricted Heaviside/Gibbs interpretation is universally and erroneously
taught in all Western universities as Maxwell's theory.
Effect On GR
As a result of this artificial restriction of Maxwell's theory, Einstein also
inadvertently restricted his theory of general relativity, forever preventing
the unification of electromagnetics and relativity. He also essentially
prevented the present restricted general relativity from ever becoming an
experimental, engineerable science on the laboratory bench, since a hidden
internalized electromagnetics causing a deterministically structured local
space-time curvature was excluded.
Effect On QM
Quantum mechanics used only the Heaviside/Gibbs externalized electromagnetics
and completely missed Maxwell's internalized and ordered electromagnetics
enfolded inside a structured scalar potential. Accordingly, QM maintained
its Gibbs statistics of quantum change, which is non-chaotic a priori.
Quantum physicists by and largely excluded Bohm's hidden variable theory,
which conceivably could have offered the potential of engineering quantum
change, engineering physical reality itself.
In Summary
Each of the three major scientific disciplines missed and excluded a subset
of its disciplinary area, because it did not have the scalar component of the
quaternion to incorporate. Further, all of them completely missed the
significance of the Whittaker approach, which already shows how to apply and
engineer the very subsets they had excluded.
What now exist in these areas are three inconsistent disciplines. Each of
them unwittingly excluded a vital part of its discipline, which was the
unified field part. Ironically, then, present physicists continue to exert
great effort to find the missing key to unification of the three disciplines,
but find it hopeless, because these special subsets are already contradictory
to one another, as is quite well-known to foundations physicists.
CONCLUSIONS
Obviously, if one wishes to unify physics, one must add back the
unintentionally excluded, unifying subsets to each discipline.
Interestingly, all three needed subsets turn out to be one and the same, as
shown in Figure 3. So application of Whittaker's work to each one of the
three disciplines produces the necessary superset of each, and these three
supersets are unified in and on the common added Whittaker subset.
_______________________
| |
| GENERAL |
| RELATIVITY (GR) |
_____________________|_____________________|_____________________
| | | |
| QM | APPLY | CLASSICAL |
| (MISSING | WHITTAKER | EM |
| CHAOS) | THEORY | THEORY |
|____________________|_____________________|____________________|
| |
| MIND AND SUBTLE |
| ENERGY |
|_____________________|
Figure 3. Whittaker Unification of EM, GR, and QM.
Also, as shown in the figure, one gets an added and unexpected bonus of great
value: Mind, thought, and life occupy time, and if time is treated as a real
dimension, then these are real also. Since fundamental units in which
physics is modeled are arbitrary, one can even model physics in terms of one
unit, time. In that case, everything is a time structure. Since even
physical reality can be viewed in this fashion, it is not unreasonable to
view mind, thought, and life as real; they do after all occupy time.
However, since they do not emerge in the normal external electromagnetics,
they must lie within the hidden, internal electromagnetics (since the photon
carries both time and energy, being a piece of action). Without further
development, we state that the Whittaker hidden variable EM approach, in
allowing the complete engineering of the internal electromagnetics, allows
the complete engineering of mind, thought, and life. Living systems have
utilized the internal EM Whittaker channel (in and through atomic nuclear
potentials and area quantum potentials) since the beginning. [ref. 36]
Finally, the Whittaker unification linkage of the three disciplines is
testable. It is engineerable. It works.
NOTES AND REFERENCES
[1] P. Graneau, Ampere-Neumann Electrodynamics of Metals, Nonantum,
Massachusetts, Hadronic Press, 1985. See also P. Graneau and P.N.
Graneau, "Electrodynamic Explosions in Liquids," Appl. Phys. Lett.,
Vol. 46, 1985, p. 468; R. Azevedo, P. Graneau, P.N. Graneau, and
C. Millet, "Powerful Water Plasma Explosions," Phys. Lett. Vol. 117,
1986, p. 101.
[2] See Y. Aharonov and D. Bohm, "Significance of Electromagnetic
Potentials in the Quantum Theory," Phys. Rev. Second Series, 115(3),
Aug. 1, 1959, p. 458-491. This paper pointed out the primacy of the
potentials. Instead of being causative agents, the force fields are
actually effects generated in and of charged particle systems from the
potentials. This is in complete violation of both classical
electromagnetics and classical dynamics, but it is absolutely required
by quantum mechanics. For an extensive discussion of the Aharonov-Bohm
effect and an extensive list of references, see S. Olariu and
I. Iovitzu Popescu, "The Quantum Effects of Electromagnetic Fluxes,"
Rev. Mod. Phys. 57(2), Apr. 1985.
[3] See Bertram Schwarzschild, "Currents in normal-metal rings exhibit
Aharonov-Bohm Effect," Physics Today, 39(1), Jan. 1986, p. 17-20 for
confirmation.
[4] James Clerk Maxwell, A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism, Oxford
University Press, Oxford, 1873. The third edition is published by
Dover, 1954.
[5] Maxwell's true theory of electromagnetics is contained in some 200-odd
quaternion equations, and is far more complex than the gross vector
simplification developed by Heaviside and Gibbs after Maxwell's death.
For a cogent argument about what might have been discovered much
earlier in physics if quaternions had not been cast aside, see James
D. Edmonds, Jr., "Quaternion Quantum Theory: New Physics or Number
Mysticism?", Am. J. Phys., 42(3), Mar. 1974, p. 220-223. Just how much
more powerful was Maxwell's quaternionic expression of EM theory than
was Heaviside's (i.e., the modern) vector interpretation, was
succinctly expressed by Josephs as follows: "Hamilton's algebra of
quaternions, unlike Heaviside's algebra of vectors, is not a mere
abbreviated mode of expressing Cartesian analysis, but is an independent
branch of mathematics with its own rules of operation and its own
special theorems. A quaternion is, in fact, a generalized or
hypercomplex number..." (H.J. Josephs, "The Heaviside Papers Found at
Paignton in 1957," Electromagnetic Theory by Oliver Heaviside,
Including an account of Heaviside's unpublished notes for a fourth
volume, and with a foreword by Sir Edmund Whittaker, Vol. III, Third
Edition, Chelsea Publishing Co., New York, 1971, p. 660.)
[6] See E.T. Whittaker, "On the Partial Differential Equations of
Mathematical Physics," Math. Ann., Vol. 57, 1903, p. 333-355; "On an
Expression of the Electromagnetic Field Due to Electrons by Means of
Two Scalar Potential Functions," Proc. Lond. Math. Soc., Series 2,
Vol. 1, 1904, p. 367-372.
[7] In the modern view, it is trapped energy that is gravitational, mass
being viewed as simply such trapped energy. We point out that
Einstein's formula E = mc^2 actually is an expression for mass in terms
of its trapped EM energy. Thus we extend the modern view by stating
that, to first order, Newtonian gravitational attraction is due to the
attraction of spatially entrapped electromagnetic energy. Since the
electromagnetic scalar potentials represent just such spatially
entrapped EM energy, then they hold a special significance
gravitationally.
[8] This assertion can be tested. At the nodal points of the standing
potential wave, the rate of flow of time is normal. At nonzero points
along the wave, however, the local rate of flow of local time varies
from normal. After a proper-time interval for the observer at the nodal
point, normal clocks and watches at different non-nodal points along the
wave will appreciably vary in their time reading. Initially
synchronized clocks will thus be found to disagree, if placed in
different positions in the Whittaker wave and allowed to remain for a
test period. In the past, various inventors have anecdotally
demonstrated this effect. As an example, see David Jones, Vancouver
Sun Times, Dec. 17, 1977, p. 17.
[9] V.K. Ignatovich, "The Remarkable Capabilities of Recursive Relations,"
Am. J. Phys., 57(10), Oct. 1989, p. 873-878.
[10] Richard W. Ziolkowski, "Localized transmission of wave energy," Proc.
SPIE, Vol. 1061, Microwave and Particle Beam Sources and Directed
Energy Concepts, Jan. 1989, p. 396-397.
[11] An acoustic missile is essentially a slug of acoustic energy that holds
together as it travels, striking and damaging or destroying a target.
An electromagnetic missile is a slug of EM energy that holds together
as it travels to a target and strikes it.
[12] A.D. Sakharov, "Vacuum Quantum Fluctuations in Curved Space and the
Theory of Gravitation," Sov. Phys. Dokl., Vol. 12, 1968, p. 1040. See
also the related discussion in Misner, Thorne and Wheeler, Gravitation,
1973, p. 426.
[13] Note that this assigns an internal structure to a gravitational
potential.
[14] A.D. Sakharov, Theor. Math. Phys., Vol. 23, 1975, p. 435.
[15] K. Akama et al, Prog. Theor. Phys., Vol. 60, 1978, p. 868.
[16] B. Hasslacher and E. Mottolo, Phys. Lett., Vol. 95B, 1980, p. 237.
[17] A. Zee, Phys. Rev. Lett., Vol. 42, 1979, p. 417.
[18] D. Amati and G. Veneziano, Phys. Lett., Vol. 105B, 1981, p. 358; S.
Yoshimoto, Prog. Theor. Phys., Vol. 78, 1987, p. 435.
[19] S. Adler, Rev. Mod. Phys., Vol. 54, 1982, p. 729.
[20] H.E. Puthoff, "Ground State of Hydrogen as a Zero-Point-Fluctuation-
Determined State," Phys. Rev. D, 35(10), May 15, 1987, p. 3266-3269.
[21] H.E. Puthoff, "Gravity as a Zero-Point-Fluctuation Force," Phys. Rev.
A., 39(5), Mar. 1, 1989, p. 2333-2342. See also H.E. Puthoff, "Source
of Vacuum electromagnetic Zero-Point Energy," Phys. Rev. A., 40(9),
Nov. 1, 1989, p. 4857-4862. Changing the vacuum potential constitutes
a fluctuation directly in and of the zero-point energy of vacuum, and
hence, by Puthoff's mechanism, it does indeed induce a gravitational
effect. At the level of the vacuum virtual particle flux exchange with
the charged nucleus, producing an electromagnetic change also produces
a gravitational change, and vice-versa.
[22] Puthoff, Phys. Rev. D., 35(10), May 15, 1987, p. 3266-3269.
[23] Nikola Tesla, Colorado Springs Notes 1899-1900, Nolit, Belgrade,
Yugoslavia, 1978, p. 61-62.
[24] E.T. Whittaker, "On an Expression of the Electromagnetic Field Due to
Electrons by Means of Two Scalar Potential Functions," Proc. Lond. Math.
Soc., Series 2, Vol. 1, 1904, p. 367-372.
[25] The potential for weaponization of the Whittaker work should be
obvious.
[26] Toward the end of his life Heaviside lived as a recluse in a small
garret apartment, and may have returned again to his struggle with
quaternions. In the 1950's handwritten notes of a theory of
gravitation, written in quaternion mathematics, were found beneath the
floor boards of his tiny study.
[27] T.E. Bearden, "Maxwell's Original Quaternion Theory Was a Unified Field
Theory of Electromagnetics and Electrogravitation," Proceedings,
International Tesla Society Symposium, Colorado Springs, Colorado, July
1988. See also T.E. Bearden, "Maxwell's Lost Unified Field Theory of
Electromagnetics and Gravitation," Proceedings, PACE Third
International New Energy Technology Symposium, June 25-28, 1988 at
Maison du Citoyen, Hull (Ottawa), Canada, 1988.
[28] See Floyd Sweet and T.E. Bearden, "Utilizing Scalar Electromagnetics
to Tap Vacuum Energy," Proceedings, this conference.
[29] Ironically, Einstein then spent the remainder of his life, desperately
trying to unify electromagnetics and gravitation in his theory of
general relativity, never realizing that his own overstatement of his
"flat local space-time" postulate precluded his success and foredoomed
all his efforts to failure.
[30] To appreciate just what can actually be done with local space-time
curvature, see E.B. Smetanin, "Electromagnetic Field in a Space With
Curvature - New Solutions," Sov. Phys. J., 25(2), Feb. 1982, p. 107-111.
[31] For a detailed exposition of the scientific suppression used to uphold
the present GR, written by an inside scientist of excellent ability, and
one with over 100 published papers in the literature, see Rugero Maria
Santilli, Ethical Probe on Einstein's Followers in the USA: An
Insider's View, Alpha Publishing, POB 82, Newtonville, MA 02160, 1984.
[32] For a discussion of the missing chaos in quantum mechanics, see Robert
Pool, "Quantum Chaos: Enigma Wrapped in a Mystery," Science, 243(4893),
Feb. 17, 1989, p. 893-895. For a more technical discussion see P.V.
Elyutin, "The Quantum Chaos Problem," Sov. Phys. Usp. 31(7), July 1988,
p. 597-622.
[33] For an entry point into the literature of hidden variable theory, see
Quantum Implications: Essays in Honour of David Bohm, B. J. Hiley and
F. David Peat, Eds., Routledge & Kegan Paul, London & New York, 1987.
[34] However, even if it predicts something new and is warranted, it still
may not be adopted. An example is the continuing reluctance of
physicists to reformulate EM theory, stressing the primacy of the
potential and the fact that not the force field but only the potential
for the force field exists in the vacuum. Even more so, it is well-
known that detection is actually binary, and we throw away precisely
half of almost every detection our instruments make. C.f. Richard
Kidd et al, "Evolution of the Modern Photon," Am. J. Phys., 57(1),
Jan. 1989, p. 27-35. Generally in every electromagnetic interaction of
our instruments, two photons are produced: one a time-forward photon,
and the other a time-reversed photon. Our detectors essentially
measure the time-forward photon half, not the time-reversed photon
(antiphoton) half. The antiphoton half produces a slight recoil force
(Newton's third law reaction force) in the mass (nuclei) of the
instrument, which we ignore. Also, we continue to ignore the evidence
that the photon and antiphoton are not identical. In a pumped phase
conjugate mirror, for example, the emission of a normal photon from the
mirror material results in a recoil of the mirror; the emission of an
antiphoton by the mirror material, however, does not result in recoil
of the mirror. Physics is still not consistent, as is well-known to
foundations researchers, but this fact is generally not accented to
university students.
[35] Bearden, Gravitobiology, Tesla Book Co., 1991, p. 33-36. The mechanism
was previously advanced in several miscellaneous papers and in private
correspondence.
[36] See Bearden, Gravitobiology, Tesla Book Co., for additional development
of biological effects and mechanisms of scalar EM.
*******************
End of paper
*******************
--
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Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb
From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <9202142304.AA28308@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Date: 14 Feb 92 23:04:04 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Lines: 128
The following posting is a summary written by my friend and
co-worker, Drew LePage, of an article in the January 1992 issue of
the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS), Volume 45,
Number 1. Titled "An Estimate of the Prevalence of Biocompatible
and Habitable Planets", it is authored by M. J. Fogg.
########################################################################
There is a very interesting article in the January 1992 edition
of the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS) on the
likelihood of various types of stars having habitable or biocompatible
planets. A biocompatible planet is one where the long term presence
of surface liquid water provides environmental conditions suitable for
for the origin and evolution of life. There are three subsets of
biocompatible planets:
* Juvenile Martian - As the name implies, it is a planet with condition
similar to those found on Mars early in its life. The planet would
receive between 27% and 75% of the light we presently receive from the
Sun and possess plate tectonics or some other geochemical carbon cycle.
Mars was this type for its first one billion years.
* Juvenile Terran - Again as the name implies, this is a planet with
conditions similar to those found on the early Earth. The planet
would receive between 75% and 95% of the light we presently receive
from the Sun and be geologically active. Earth was this type of planet
for its first four billion years (i.e. during the Precambrian period).
* Habitable - This is a planet with Earthlike conditions. The planet
would receive between 95% and 110% of the light we receive and be
geologically active.
The author of the study collected the results of various studies
to determine what conditions produce biocompatible and habitable
planets, the evolution of stars and the effects on planetary environ-
ments, the likely distribution of planets in other systems, as well
as others. The results of the author's simulations indicate the
following:
* Habitable planets can exist around stars with 0.8 to 1.8 times the
mass of the Sun.
* Biocompatible planets can exist around stars with 0.5 to 1.8 times the
mass of the Sun.
* Habitable planets may occur around >3% of the stars between 0.85 and
1.45 times the mass of the Sun.
* Biocompatible planets may occur around >30% of the stars between 0.8
and 1.25 time the mass of the Sun.
If only single stars possess planets:
* There would be one habitable planet for every 413 stars.
* The mean distance between systems with habitable planets would be
31 light years.
* There would be one biocompatible planet for every 39 stars.
* The mean distance between systems with biocompatible planets would be
14 light years.
* There would be about 362 biocompatible (of which 34 would be habitable)
planets within 100 light years of us.
If planets could form in multiple star systems:
* There would be one habitable planet for every 196 stars.
* The mean distance between systems with habitable planets would be 24
light years.
* There would be one biocompatible planet for every 18 stars.
* The mean distance between systems with biocompatible planets would be
11 light years.
* There would be about 763 biocompatible (of which 71 would be habitable)
planets within 100 light years of us.
The author goes further and calculates the probability of the
nearer stars having biocompatible or habitable planets. Assuming that
planets can form in multiple star systems the following probabilities
were calculated:
Name Distance (LY) Type Habitable Biocompatible
Alpha Centauri A 4.38 G2V 7.8% 44%
Alpha Centauri B 4.38 K6V 4.4% 38%
Epsilon Eridani 10.69 K2V 0.6% 34%
61 Cygni A 11.17 K5V 0.0% 5.8%
61 Cygni B 11.17 K7V 0.0% 0.3%
Epsilon Indi 11.21 K5V 0.0% 18%
Lacille 9352 11.69 M2 0.0% <0.3%
Tau Ceti 11.95 G8V 1.5% 35%
Lacille 8760 12.54 M1V 0.0% 1.5%
Groombridge 1618 15.03 K7 0.0% 2.5%
70 Ophiuchi A 16.73 K1 4.4% 38%
70 Ophiuchi B 16.73 K6 0.0% 16%
36 Ophiuchi A 17.73 K0V 0.0% 28%
36 Ophiuchi B 17.73 K1V 0.0% 27%
36 Ophiuchi C 17.73 K5V 0.0% 9.0%
HR 7703 A 18.43 K3V 0.0% 27%
Sigma Draconis 18.53 K0V 1.5% 35%
Delta Pavonis 18.64 G5 5.1% 39%
Eta Cassiopeiae A 19.19 G0V 3.9% 38%
Eta Cassiopeiae B 19.19 M0 0.0% 0.7%
HD 36395 19.19 M1V 0.0% 0.5%
Wolf 294 19.41 M4 0.0% <0.3%
+5301320 A 19.65 M0 0.0% 0.6%
+5301320 B 19.65 M0 0.0% 0.5%
-45013677 20.6 M0 0.0% <0.3%
82 Eridani 20.9 G5 4.4% 38%
Beta Hydri 21.3 G1 7.5% 35%
HR 8832 21.4 K3 0.0% 23%
Assuming that the author's simulations and calculations are
correct, there could be as many as 5.6 BILLION biocompatible planets
in our galaxy of which about 500 MILLION are habitable. And, as the
above table shows, the nearest biocompatible planet could only be
4.38 light years away.
Drew LePage
----- End Included Message -----
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb
From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: New Asteroid Coming Our Way ...
Message-ID: <9202142306.AA28328@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Date: 14 Feb 92 23:06:31 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Lines: 53
..or is it really an asteroid? Reference the file Something Wicked This Way
Comes.....
Len
----- Begin Included Message -----
From: jscotti@lpl.arizona.edu (Jim Scotti x2717)
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
Subject: Re: NEW UNUSUAL ASTEROID FOUND...
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.
Lines: 34
Xref: lassie sci.astro:16766 sci.space:32698
In article <1992Jan24.201444.21555@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> peter@arafel.space.ualberta.ca (Peter Brown) writes:
>
>NEW OUTER SOLAR SYSTEM ASTEROID/COMET FOUND - DUNCAN STEEL, 1992 January 24th
>
>
>On January 1st an object presently designated SS078 (Spacewatch Survey
>object number 078) was discovered by Dr David Rabinowitz using the
>Spacewatch Camera at Kitt Peak, Arizona.
>
The object was discovered on January 9 and re-observed by Spacewatch
on January 10 and 13. Images were later found by Carolyn Shoemaker
made from Palomar on January 1. It has now been given the asteroidal
designation 1992 AD. We expect that more pre-discovery images from
opposition passages in the last 5-10 years may be forthcoming as the
orbit (and subsequent backwards search ephemerides) is improved. In
the weeks following the discovery of (2060) Chiron at the end of 1977,
images were found in previous years, for example on the Palomar Sky
Survey in the early 1950's & eventually as early as the 1880's! Chiron,
however, gets a bit brighter & does not travel as far from the sun
as 1992 AD and we don't expect images going back more than a few
years. 1992 AD is now approximately Visual magnitde 16.8. At the
time of the Palomar Sky Survey in the early 1950's, 1992 AD was near
aphelion and would have been fainter than V=22, below the plate limit.
---------------------------------------------
Jim Scotti
Spacewatch Project
{jscotti@lpl.arizona.edu}
Lunar & Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721 USA
---------------------------------------------
----- End Included Message -----
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb
From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: YOUR OWN PERSONAL OPTICAL SETI
Message-ID: <9202142302.AA28287@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Date: 14 Feb 92 23:02:37 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Lines: 7917
Check this out!!!!!
Len
===============================================================================
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF
THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
Volume 3, Number 6A - January 1992
###########################
TABLE OF CONTENTS
###########################
* ASA Membership and Article Submission Information
* The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in
the Optical Spectrum, Part A - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
###########################
ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION
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Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Inc.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Editor's Note -
This January issue of EJASA is in six parts, and is devoted to the
work of Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley on the subject of SETI in the Optical
Spectrum. While the concept of Optical SETI is not new, it has yet
to receive the same attention as the surveys for signals from alien
intelligences in the microwave spectrum. It is the desire of
Dr. Kingsley that this paper will elevate the status of the optical
approach to the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.
Parts A, B, and C deal with the general concepts of Optical SETI,
in particular Professional Optical SETI. Part D covers Amateur Optical
SETI. In that part, the basic design of an Amateur Optical SETI
Observatory is described, and details given of its approximate cost.
Part E contains the discussion and conclusions, and an extensive list
of references. Finally, Part F contains two Appendices: The first
gives the theory and specimen calculations to support the case made for
both Professional and Amateur Optical SETI; the second gives the
Post-Detection SETI Protocols.
This year will see considerable media attention given to Microwave
(Conventional) SETI. On Columbus Day, October 12, NASA's Microwave
Observing Project, which is otherwise known by the acronym MOP, will be
activated in the Northern Hemisphere at Puerto Rico's three hundred-
meter diameter Arecibo telescope (Targeted Search) and NASA's thirty
four-meter antenna at the Deep Space Network (DSN) in Goldstone,
California (All Sky Survey). Later, the seventy-meter telescopes at
Parkes and Tidbinbilla in Australia, and the thirty-meter telescope at
the Institute Argentino de Radioastronomia Villa Elisa in Argentina,
will join the program for complementary observations in the Southern
Hemisphere.
At this auspicious moment as we approach the five hundredth
anniversary of Christopher Columbus's discovery of the Americas,
Dr. Kingsley brings to the public's attention the suggestion that we
may not actually be tuned to the correct frequencies, so that the
chances of discovering older, more mature extraterrestrial technical
civilizations will be substantially impaired.
CORRECTIONS -
While every care has been taken to ensure the theoretical correct-
ness of this paper, inevitable mistakes will be found, particularly
considering the size and complexity of this material. The author
wishes it to be known that he would like to hear about these errors.
The COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION page provides information as to how he may
be contacted.
The COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION (Page iii) contains the version number
for this issue of the EJASA. If later, corrected versions are
released, they will have a version number greater than 1.00.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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If you receive a copy of this document on a floppy disk or download
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individual text files, which may then be sent straight to the printer.
The compressed file will also be available on CompuServe's Space and
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)
IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM
Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach
by
Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS
545 Northview Drive
Columbus, Ohio 43209
United States
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)
IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART A
Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach
by
Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS
545 Northview Drive
Columbus, Ohio 43209
United States
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
i
About the Author -
Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley, born in 1948, is an alien of the
terrestrial kind (British), having lived most of his life in South
Tottenham, London, England, where his mother still resides. Stuart
is single and still harbors a long-held desire to move to Hawaii or
California. Presently he is an Optoelectronics Consultant, a Senior
Member of the American Institute of Electrical and Electronics
Engineers (IEEE), and an Associate Member of the British Institution of
Electrical Engineers (IEE). Stuart Kingsley has a Bachelor of Science
(B.Sc.) Honors degree and a Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) in Electrical
and Electronic Engineering from The City University, London, and
University College London, respectively. In 1984 he shared the
prestigious British Rank Prize for Optoelectronics with his former
University College London thesis advisor, Professor D. E. N. Davies,
who is now Vice-Chancellor of Loughborough University, England.
Dr. Kingsley arrived in the United States in 1981 to join Battelle
Columbus Division and lead their activities in fiber-optic sensing,
initially as a Principal Research Scientist and later as a Senior
Research Scientist. In 1987 he left Battelle and established himself
as a photonics consultant. The magnet that drew him to this country
was the dynamic state of American technology during the APOLLO Program,
which coincided with his formative teenage years. Indeed, for most of
his life, Stuart has been "mad about astronomy and space", and once, in
the late 1970s, volunteered to be a British Payload Specialist on the
American Space Shuttle. In the 1970s, Stuart was a member of his local
Haringey Astronomical Society (patron Arthur C. Clarke), which was
formed after a suggestion made by Patrick Moore to Arthur's brother,
Fred Clarke.
Soon after arriving in Columbus, Ohio, Stuart joined The Planetary
Society (TPS) and the Space Studies Institute (SSI). The only previous
time that he has ventured professionally into the space and astronomy
area was in the early 1980s, when he suggested the very speculative
possibility that huge fiber-optic sensors (Sagnac Interferometers)
with quantum amplifiers might be used to detect gravitational waves.
In this present paper, Stuart is suggesting how we might "sense" ETI,
with or without optical fibers - perhaps the ultimate optoelectronic
(photonic) sensing and communications project. Dr. Kingsley is
presently a volunteer with the SETI Group at the Radio Observatory,
Ohio State University and a member of the Columbus Astronomical Society
(CAS). Stuart's greatest concern today is that the nation has
forgotten how to "dream" for a better tomorrow.
As a point of information, the logo for Fiberdyne Optoelectronics
normally shows a Mach-Zehnder interferometer containing a photon and
a wave-packet, the latter illustrating the dual nature of light (for
this text-based document, they have been replaced by "hf >> kT").
Despite the STAR TREK style caption above the logo, which is more
applicable to Dr. Kingsley's usual consulting activities, the
suggestion made here is that extraterrestrial artificial optical
photons may have been coming in Earth's direction for a long time,
only that we humans have not been sophisticated enough to notice.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
ii
FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS BBS
On Sunday, October 27, 1991, Fiberdyne Optoelectronics inaugurated
a Bulletin Board System (BBS) whose main purpose is to promote
activities for the Optical (Visible and Infrared) Search For Extra-
terrestrial Intelligence, otherwise known as Optical SETI*, and
Microwave (Conventional) SETI**. It is intended that this BBS will
advance the science of Optical SETI. In addition, the aim is to use
this bulletin board to coordinate future world-wide Amateur Optical
(Visible and Near-Infrared) SETI endeavors. This BBS is running
Wildcat 3.0 and supports color ANSI menus. It will be an open system,
and there is no charge at this time for becoming a registered user. If
the bulletin board should prove to be very popular, a small charge will
be instigated to fund the hardware acquisitions to support more modem
lines.
This announcement also serves as a request to those professionally
involved with SETI and with other forums listed below, to upload
relevant files, messages, and news to the appropriate conference areas
(forums). This can be done by becoming a registered user and directly
uploading files, sending text files via the national/international
computer network systems to the E-mail addresses below, or by mailing
us the material on any size of PC-compatible floppy disk. Prior to
registration, new users can only access Conference Areas 0 and 1. The
following is a list (subject to additions and change) of conference
areas on this BBS:
1. Fiberdyne Optoelectronics 2. Optical SETI*
3. SETI** 4. Astronomy
5. Space & Astronautics 6. Electromagnetics & Health
7. Lighting & VDT flicker 8. Electrical Engineering
9. Mathematics 10. Utilities
11. UFOs 12. TVRO & Intelsat Reception
13. Optoelectronics 14. Fiber-Optic Communications
15. Fiber-Optic Sensing 16. Distributed Fiber-Optic Sensing
17. PC Software Demos 18. PC Hardware
19. Science Fiction 20. Games
21. Reserved 22. Political
23. United Kingdom News 24. Private
25. Private 26. Private
27. Private 28. Employment
29. Advertisements
IMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM;
: Bulletin Board System (BBS) :
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: 300/1200/2400/4800/9600 Baud, MNP, 8N1 :
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM<
The voice/fax number is (614) 258-7402. Manual fax machines can
access our fax facility by sending the tone "33" anytime after the
first telephone ring. The answering machine gives instructions for
fax and modem usage.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
iii
COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION
This document may be freely copied to other electronic bulletin
boards, but only in an unmodified form and in its entirety, with the
following copyright notice attached. No license is given to reproduce
this document in electronic or hardcopy form for profit. However, the
media may reproduce short extracts for the purposes of furthering the
Optical SETI debate.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley Copyright (c) 1992 *
* Consultant *
* AMIEE, SMIEEE, *
* The Planetary Society, *
* Space Studies Institute, *
* Columbus Astronomical Society, *
* Volunteer, SETI Group, Ohio State. *
* *
* "Where No Photon Has Gone Before & *
* The Impossible Takes A Little Longer" *
* __________ *
* FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS / \ *
* 545 Northview Drive --- hf >> kT --- *
* Columbus, Ohio 43209 \__________/ *
* United States *
* Tel/Fax: (614) 258-7402 .. .. .. .. .. *
* Manual Fax Tone Access Code: 33 . . . . . . . . . . *
* Bulletin Board System (BBS): .. .. .. .. *
* Modem: (614) 258-1710, *
* 300/1200/2400/4800/9600 Baud, MNP, 8N1. *
* Email: skingsle@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu *
* CompuServe: 72376,3545 *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
U.K. inquires may be made to the above U.S. address or:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS *
* 43 Blenheim Avenue *
* Gants Hill, Ilford *
* Essex 1G2 6JQ *
* England *
* Tel: (081) 518-1953 *
* Fax: (081) 518-2216 *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Version: 1.00
File: EJASAV3.N06
THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6A
Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
iv
CONTENTS
PAGE
Preface 1
Introduction 9
The Microwave Observing Project (MOP) 11
Assumption of Ineptitude 13
Professional Optical SETI 14
Project Cyclops 18
SETI Comparisons 18
Lasers 29
Fraunhofer Lines 31
The Optical Search 31
Professional CO2 SETI 35
Incoherent Optical SETI at 10,600 nm 37
Adaptive Telescope Technology 39
The Columbus Telescope Project 40
Optical SETI Rationale 40
Amateur Optical SETI 42
How to Build Your Own Amateur Optical SETI Observatory 47
The Microwave and Optical Observing Project (MOOP) 52
List of Previous and Present Optical SETI Activities 54
Discussion 56
Conclusions 58
References 64
Appendix A - Theory and Specimen Calculations 71
Appendix B - The SETI Protocols 94
Index 98
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
v
TABLES
PAGE
Table 1 Project Cyclops comparison scenarios. 19
Table 2 Summary of SETI performance for (symmetrical) 22
professional heterodyne communication systems
over a range of 10 light years.
Table 3 Important laser types and wavelengths. 29
Table 4 The most intense Fraunhofer lines from the Sun. 30
Table 5 Nearest stars favored for MOP's 800 star Targeted 53
Search.
ILLUSTRATIONS
Figure 1 Signpost SETI or pilot-tone system. 10
Figure 2 Coherent optical heterodyne receiver. 15
Figure 3 Spectral levels at a range of ten light years, 17
per diffraction limited pixel.
Figure 4 Spectral density and interstellar CNR for 28
1 kW (SETI) signals at ten light years.
Figure 5 The Microwave and Optical Cosmic Haystack 32
frequency domains.
Figure 6 Signal-to-noise ratio versus optical bandwidth 38
for (perfect) photon-counting CO2 receivers.
Figure 7 Incoherent (direct) detection optical receiver. 42
Figure 8 Signal-to-noise ratio versus optical bandwidth 44
(perfect) photon-counting 656 nm receivers.
Figure 9 Basic Amateur Optical SETI or Poor Man's 48
Optical SETI.
Figure 10 Typical FOVs for a large optical telescope. 81
Figure 11 Maximal Ratio Precombining. 84
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
vi
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
This paper shows that the rationale behind modern-day SETI (The
Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence) lore is suspect, and that
our search of electromagnetic signals from extraterrestrial technical
civilizations may be doomed to failure because we are "tuned to the
wrong frequencies". The old idea that optical transmissions would be
better for interstellar communications is revisited. That lasers might
be better for interstellar communications has generally been discounted
by the SETI community. Indeed, there is very little in the SETI
literature about the optical approach, as its efficacy was more or less
dismissed by SETI researchers some twenty years ago. This paper serves
to reopen the debate.
A powerful case is made that we have inherently assumed that ETIs
are technical inept, so that they lack the prowess to send very narrow
laser beams into nearby star systems. This paper provides convincing
theoretical proof that infrared or visible lasers would be preferred
for such communication links. Indeed, the author suggests that until
a thorough search for ETI signals is done in the optical spectrum, we
are unlikely to be able to say anything definitive about the
probability or lack of probability of intelligent life in other parts
of the Milky Way galaxy, particularly if the microwave search turns out
to be negative.
The author, Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley, also indicates that amateur
optical astronomers should be able to construct their own Optical SETI
Observatories. Details are given of the equipment required and
approximate costs. He suggests that a coordinated Amateur Optical
SETI activity could make a useful contribution to SETI research by
conducting a low-sensitivity Targeted Search in the visible and near-
infrared spectrum, in parallel with the Microwave Observing Project's
Targeted Search of eight hundred selected stars. Stuart Kingsley
concludes his paper, by suggesting that while it is impossible to say
that ETIs would not use interstellar microwave techniques to
communicate with other technical civilizations, it is a mistake to
ignore the strong possibility that optical communications are
preferred.
An extensive theoretical appendix is included to support the
calculations for Professional and Amateur Optical SETI, and the
conclusions drawn from these calculations. For those interested in the
procedures to follow after detection of an ETI signal, a copy of the
Post-Detection SETI Protocols is also included.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 1
PREFACE
This paper is about the Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence
(SETI) in the Optical Spectrum. It is a revisit of suggestions which
for various reasons have yet to be accepted by the majority of the
SETI community. This document does not address the usual controversial
aspects about SETI, such as Fermi's Paradox, i.e., "Where are they?"
and the arguments of Frank Tipler. [20,39] We shall also not discuss
exotic forms of radiation, such as X-rays, gamma rays, neutrinos, and
gravitational waves. This paper deals primarily with the superiority
of interstellar optical beamed communications over their microwave
counterparts.
In general, the concept of SETI is "sold" on the basis that
electromagnetic waves are the cheapest (in energy cost) and fastest
way to travel through deep space, and is the next best thing to
actually being there. I tend to believe that interstellar travel by
humans will be quite commonplace in the centuries to come, so that
for myself there is the paradox (Kingsley's Paradox) of why
communicate when it is possible to travel?
It is perhaps useful to state from the start what are my basic
beliefs, with the caveat that there is presently very little scientific
evidence to support any of these speculative ideas.
(a) The Universe is literally crawling with life, some of this extra-
terrestrial life being highly intelligent.
(b) In general, extraterrestrials do not stay at home, but they do not
leave the exploration and colonization of the galaxy to self-
replicating von Neumann probes. [20]
(c) Extraterrestrials find it easy to travel across the galaxy in
near-relativistic or relativistic spaceships.
(d) On the basis of (a), (b) and (c), it is likely that at least some
of the so-called sightings of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs)
do in fact relate to visitations from other worlds, and that
Earth's history and the evolution of life on this planet may have
been affected by such visits.
(e) If (c) is not possible and von Neumann probes are not employed,
then electromagnetic waves could be used by extraterrestrial
civilizations to contact their counterparts in other stellar
systems, particularly more primitive technological civilizations.
(f) If (e) is occurring, then it is more likely that the optical
region of the electromagnetic spectrum would be used, in
preference to the microwave region.
Note that there is, of course, the possibility of radio or optical
communications from von Neumann probes in our vicinity, both with us
and with their home worlds. Perhaps the greatest difficulty that I
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 2
have with electromagnetic SETI is my long-held belief in what has come
to be known as the "Cosmic Zoo", which is related to idea (c). If we
are indeed presently off-limits for "Contact" in any form, i.e.,
quarantined, searching for electromagnetic signals would be a waste of
time, never mind the consideration as to whether there are a sufficient
number of ETIs in the galaxy to make electromagnetic "Contact"
probable. However, this study is restrictive in its terms of
reference, as it only considers the relative efficacies of the
microwave and optical approaches to electromagnetic SETI (f). For the
sake of this discussion, we shall not make much of an attempt to
resolve these other problems here.
I would, however, make some observations. It has been a long and
somewhat difficult road for SETI researchers to establish electro-
magnetic SETI as a legitimate science. To some extent, for political
reasons, they have had to strongly disassociate themselves from those
who believe in UFOs. This somewhat artificial differentiation has been
done to reduce the incidence of being labelled "crazy" by their more
conservative colleagues and Members of Congress, and to maintain the
rationale that electromagnetic interstellar communications is the
cheapest form of travel.
In reality, there is more common-ground between scientists who
believe in UFOs and those that ascribe to SETI, than the latter might
care to admit. To maintain otherwise is being intellectually
dishonest, for both believe in "Aliens" or what are now more affection-
ately referred to as "Extraterrestrials" (ETs). In the end, what one
believes (as against what one knows and is scientifically proven) comes
down to imagination, or the lack of. On the other hand, what one
publicly admits to believing is quite another matter entirely. This
involves other more down-to-Earth considerations, like the fear of
being ridiculed by colleagues and the scientific establishment.
One only has to remember how the "keepers of the flame" recently
reacted to the Cold Fusion work of Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons,
to realize that the scientific establishment does not take too kindly
to those would dare to "rock the boat" of conventional orthodoxy.
Fortunately, the theory on Optical SETI given in Appendix A is based
on long-established scientific principles, so this author should fare
somewhat better.
Three types of civilizations have been postulated by Kardashev
for the development of "super civilizations". [4,13,25] A "Type I"
civilization would be in a similar stage of development as Earth,
having gained control of most of the energy sources on the planet of
origin (about 4 X 10^12 W). A "Type II" civilization would have
reached a level at which it controlled the energy output of its own sun
(4 X 10^26 W). A "Type III" civilization would have gained control of
the energy output of the entire galaxy (about 4 X 10^37 W).
This paper really addresses the type of technology and energy
sources available to Type I and Type II civilizations. Freeman Dyson
has described how a Type II civilization might dismantle one of the
larger planets in its solar system and build a shell completely
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 3
surrounding its sun. [25] A Type III civilization would hardly need to
use microwave or optical technology for communications, and might
consider us little more than we do ants.
During the past eighteen months, I have been associated with
Dr. Robert Dixon's SETI Group at Ohio State, and have had extensive
communications with the SETI Institute at NASA's Ames Research Center
in Moffett Field, California. My approach in revisiting this subject
has not been the conventional one of publishing a paper or papers and
waiting for the "penny to drop". Rather, because several noted
researchers have published papers along similar lines over the past
thirty years and have largely had their ideas rejected by their
colleagues, I decided to try a somewhat different strategy: To take
the SETI community by storm. The reader is assured that to the best of
my knowledge, no laws of physics have been violated in this study.
What is true, however, is that the human imagination has been stretched.
This is not the first time, nor will it be the last, that the
scientific community may have gone in the wrong direction because of
mistaken assumptions. What I am doing is to seriously question
present SETI lore, with due respects to Professors Philip Morrison,
Frank Drake (President, SETI Institute), Carl Sagan, Dr. Bernard Oliver,
and the late I. Shklovskii, to name but a few. At first glance, the
three decades old idea that ETI signals will be found in the quietest
region of the electromagnetic spectrum seems reasonable. Thus, the
21-centimeter hydrogen (H) line and the region of the microwave
spectrum between the H and lowest OH resonance lines (1.420 to
1.662 GHz), which has come to be known as the "waterhole", has become a
favored "magic frequency". However, we may have been too clever by
half in guessing the natural interstellar communication frequencies,
and in assuming that ETIs will make it very easy for us to locate their
signals. Perhaps our commitment to the search for ETI must be
substantially increased before we are rewarded by success.
Over the years, many science fiction writers have involved inter-
stellar laser communications in their story lines. Indeed, in the 1990
SETI book, FIRST CONTACT [26], edited by Ben Bova and Byron Preiss, Ben
Bova wrote a story involving Optical SETI called "Answer, Please,
Answer". Interestingly, a recent edition of NEW SCIENTIST [45] which
had an article about SETI, also contained a review of the new paperback
issue of FIRST CONTACT and criticized it, suggesting that it was
inappropriate to include this science fiction material. However, there
may have been more truth in that story than in much of the rest of the
book. Perhaps it is time again for scientists to take note of what
science fiction writers have to say!
FIRST CONTACT also contains a chapter (Chapter 9, "How to
Participate in SETI", by Kent Cullers and William Alschuler) devoted to
Amateur Microwave SETI, but it is not clear how many TVRO (TeleVision
Receive Only) owners would wish to convert their satellite dishes for
this purpose. In the microwave regime, amateurs would be competing
with the "big boys", but in the optical regime they would be essent-
ially on their own. The contribution that the amateur optical
astronomy enthusiast can make in this area is described later.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 4
What I do find slightly disturbing is that the popular literature
on SETI usually says either nothing about the optical approach or
dismisses it in a paragraph or two as being without merit. As far as
I can recall, THE PLANETARY REPORT [17,21,37] has never discussed this
approach. Even the latest PLANETARY REPORT article by Professor Paul
Horowitz [37] fails again to mention the optical approach. Indeed, The
Planetary Society has just launched an appeal, with the help of film
producer and director Steven Spielberg, to raise funds for support of
the Harvard BETA (Billion-channel Extraterrestrial Assay) project.
This system will eventually have six billion channels and is designed
to have a channel resolution of 0.05 Hz. This trend in Microwave SETI
channel resolution is directly opposite to the thrust of the Optical
SETI rationale described herein, where minimum channel bandwidths of
about 100 kHz are specified.
Also, there appears to be misleading information in SETI books as
to the visibility of electronically detectable signals and the efficacy
of using Fraunhofer lines to increase signal contrast. It is almost as
if no one had bothered to "crunch" the numbers properly. The fact that
Fraunhofer lines have been previously thought to have a significant
bearing on transmission frequencies in the visible regime, really
arises from the assumption that ETIs lack the technical prowess to send
us more than a few photons per second. Once that assumption is swept
away, the increased contrast ratio produced by these stellar absorption
lines become less significant, particularly in relation to the use of
optical heterodyne receiving systems. [71-73]
Microwave SETI researchers are looking for very weak narrow-band
signals buried in noise, and require the use of signal processing
algorithms like the Karhunen-Loeve Transform (KLT) presently being
studied by Dr. Robert Dixon's SETI group at Ohio State [73,86]. The
KLT is more effective than the Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) in
extracting non-repetitive pulses from noise-like data. I assume, that
Optical SETI signals will be much stronger and of substantially
increased bandwidth, and may not need to be processed in this manner.
The ten-year duration, 100 million-dollar Microwave Observing
Project (MOP) now just starting, dramatically extends the search space
in the Microwave Cosmic Haystack. [40-45] As far as Visible Optical
SETI is concerned, it would appear that scientists of the former Soviet
Union have done most of the work in this area, though it represents but
a tiny fraction of global modern-day SETI activities.
If we confine ourselves to Visible Optical SETI for the moment, I
make the following case that the sort of visible signal intensities
which would allow modest-size telescopes to produce low-noise signals
in moderate bandwidths are so weak that they would be easily missed by
conventional optical astronomers. One just has to remember, that for
over thirty years, SETI researchers have been scanning the skies for
artificial extraterrestrial microwave signals in a systematic manner.
So far they have failed to detect a confirmed artificial extra-
terrestrial signal. What is the probability if such rare signals exist
in the visible or near-infrared spectrum that optical astronomers
would have accidently stumbled across them?
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 5
In early 1991, after "suggesting" that the SETI community should
revisit the optical approach, I was invited to give a talk at the SETI
Institute. This Optical SETI Revisited Colloquium took place in April
of 1991. Prior to my NASA visit, I had concentrated my analysis on
Professional Optical SETI and had given some thought to the optical
equivalent of the Microwave Observing Project. Some of the signal
processing ideas arising out of MOP will be transferable to the optical
search. I was well-received by NASA, though there are certain members
of the group who still hold to the view that the optical approach is
useless, particularly at the high-frequency visible end of the
spectrum. After my talk, Dr. John Billingham, Chief of NASA's SETI
Office, invited me to present a paper at the Commission 51 Bioastronomy
Conference of the IAU (International Astronomical Union), which is to
be held in 1993, and have that paper printed in the journal ACTA
ASTRONAUTICA.
In recent years, NASA has supported a limited activity in SETI at
10,600 nm. However, its main thrust has always been Microwave SETI.
For about five years, NASA has been supporting Charles Townes and
Albert Betz in a low-level activity at the Carbon Dioxide (CO2) laser
wavelength. This work has been "piggy-backed" onto a larger program
for CO2 astrophysical research. They are using an interferometric
system consisting of two infrared telescopes mounted on a trailer, with
two phase-locked heterodyning CO2 local-oscillator lasers, nitrogen-
cooled photodetectors, and a bandwidth of a few MHz. The observations
are being conducted at Mount Wilson Observatory. The SETI aspect of
this work is so low-key that I found some difficulty in obtaining
details about this activity.
Over the early part of the summer of 1991 while I was back home in
England, I was able to convince myself that perhaps the concept of
Amateur (visible and near-infrared) Optical SETI was not such an
implausible idea. Over the past eighteen months, I have undertaken a
substantial self-funded analysis of Professional and Amateur Optical
SETI, of which this represents a brief summary. I would be interested
in hearing from any major space/astronomy publication or organization
that would like to approach me for an article, book, or talk, or any
company which might be interested in a business relationship in this
area. I have prepared a substantial illustrated viewgraph report on
this subject, which the few ASCII text diagrams and graphs in this
document can hardly do justice. I would be interested in producing an
Optical SETI book accompanied with compiled versions of many of the
spreadsheets that I have employed for these analyses. This would allow
readers to do their own "what-if" analyses.
The SETI Institute and NASA have been alerted that I will be going
public about Professional and Amateur Optical SETI at this time,
because of my gut feeling that there will be a surge of interest in
this subject seldom seen during the thirty years of modern-day SETI.
NASA might like to consider coordinating world-wide Amateur Optical
SETI activities to avoid excessive duplication of searches on the same
target stars. This would also present the opportunity to compare data
to that obtained for the same stars with the Microwave Observing
Project.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 6
After digesting this material, some readers are bound to feel that
what they have read they always knew, but were intimidated by the
giants of the scientific community. Perhaps there is no field of human
endeavor like SETI which involves so much speculation, where the
citizen with a scientific background is just as qualified to speculate
as the professional SETI scientist. The controversy over this approach
is bound to rage for some time. Soon after I embarked on this study in
June of 1990, I came to the conclusion that if this revisit of Optical
SETI was to at last be given the attention it deserved, I would have to
take a very different approach to getting the material published.
It is fitting that this first publication of these ideas is being
done via the electronic media, the computer networks which span the
globe. It has been advantageous that it has also given me substantial
space in which to delineate the full scope of my rationale in one go,
without leaving too many gaps. Indeed, what started out as a small
paper has turned into a mini-book. Who knows; perhaps ETIs in the
future will intercept signal leakage from Earth's microwave satellite
uplinks, read this document, or eavesdrop on terrestrial TV and radio
transmissions, and have a chuckle (I assume that humor is more than a
human trait): "Those crazy humans, if only they knew!".
During the early formative part of my life, I owned a small
refracting telescope and would spend many hours studying Earth's moon
and the planets. It has been a long time since I possessed another
telescope. Because I believe in putting my money where my mouth is, I
am now impatient to put together my own Amateur Optical SETI
Observatory. This paper has yet to be peer reviewed and the author is
solely responsible for its contents. Readers are encouraged to check
out the relationships used and the accuracy of the calculations. The
rest is then a matter of opinion and imagination.
Optical SETI investigations will probably take a lot of
perseverance. In the grand tradition of American disclaimers, readers
should note that I cannot accept responsibility for the lack of success
in detecting ETI - ("Caveat emptor"!). Since I expect that there will
be considerable reaction to this material, I therefore beg your
indulgence if I do not presently reply or reply in detail to every
personal message received in response, either by conventional mail,
fax, or network E-mail. However, a personal response is assured
through my own bulletin board system (BBS), which has been set up
specifically to coordinate future world-wide Optical SETI activities.
Simultaneously with the electronic publication of this document, I
have established a BBS devoted to SETI in general, and Optical SETI in
particular. More modem lines may be added later as interest warrants.
The telephone number is (614) 258-1710 and supports all modem speeds
up to 9600 baud. The BBS is dedicated to NASA and the late Gene
Roddenberry, the latter having had a substantial influence on how I view
the future. Many of the spreadsheets, diagrams, and graphs - and there
are many - that have supported the development of my rational, will
eventually be made available via the bulletin board. For further
details about this computer bulletin board, see the BBS information
(Page ii) at the front.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 7
The theoretical justification for the results and conclusions
drawn in this paper has been relegated to Appendix A. In this way,
those readers uncomfortable with scientific theory and mathematical
relationships do not have to have wade through masses of equations.
It is, of course, very difficult to be everything to all people. For
this reason, I have compromised in this approach by keeping the theory
as simple as possible, and have avoided the use of statistical analysis
and calculus. For instance, the way that the signal-to-noise ratio of
a detected optical signal varies with received photon flux, bandwidth,
and signal integration time is exceedingly complex when the photon flux
is weak, particularly if avalanche photodetectors are employed. There
will be plenty of time later for this author and others to present a
more rigorous approach to Optical SETI. This can be done in a variety
of learned journals, such as IEEE's LIGHTWAVE TECHNOLOGY and
TRANSACTIONS ON COMMUNICATIONS, or the IEE's ELECTRONICS LETTERS.
The purpose of this document is to rekindle the debate between
those who believe in the microwave approach to SETI and those who
subscribe to the efficacy of the optical approach. An additional
desire is to introduce my colleagues in the fiber-optics field to a
rather exciting concept - an idea which dwarfs all the puny terrene
"hero" long-distance demonstrations that large fiber-optics
communication companies like to brag about from time to time. As
actor Al Jolson used to say, "You ain't seen nothing yet!".
I would like to acknowledge discussions and encouragement from
various sources: Dr. Robert Dixon (Director, SETI Program) for a very
professional reaction to what I had to say, despite having devoted
decades of his SETI activities to the microwave search with "Big Ear".
I also acknowledge Dr. Dixon's contribution in being given access to
the educational and scientific network. In addition, I would like to
thank Professor Charles Townes (University of California, Berkeley) for
his helpful comments when this study was first started, recent E-mail
discussions with his colleague Dr. Albert Betz, Professor Philip
Morrison (MIT), and correspondence with Dr. John Rather (NASA-HQ).
I would also acknowledge correspondence and discussions with
Dr. Bernard Oliver, who in early November of 1990 sent me a copy of his
Cyclops report, convinced that it would prove the case for the efficacy
of the microwave approach. In my correspondence and discussions with
Dr. Oliver, who is also known as the "grand old man" of SETI, I have
not been able to shake his belief in the correctness of the microwave
approach. So we have agreed to disagree over the relative merits of
Microwave and Optical SETI.
Over much of the past year and a half while the ideas were
developing, I have interfaced with parts of the SETI community. There
is some perception that my "lobbying" for the optical approach to SETI
may already have had some effect on how those within NASA and the SETI
Institute now view Optical SETI. At least, I have received rather
"mixed signals" over the past eighteen months as to where the consensus
lies, and there appears to have been some shift towards my position,
though this may be a presumption on my part.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 8
I would particularly like to acknowledge the professional courtesy
and assistance given me by Dr. Jill Tarter (NASA SETI MOP Project, SETI
Institute, U.C. Berkeley) and her staff at the SETI Institute, despite
the fact that I may have "come on quite strong" in revisiting Optical
SETI. I also thank Dr. Kent Cullers (Signal Detection Scientist, NASA)
then of the SETI Institute, for his encouragement and for checking some
of my calculations relating to Professional Optical SETI. I trust he
will do the same, if he can draw himself away from MOP for a few
hours, for my more recent computations relating to Amateur Optical
SETI.
Finally, I must acknowledge the considerable assistance of the SETI
Institute's Robert Arnold (Research Assistant and Public Information)
in providing me with much background information on SETI. I hope I do
not give him too much of a headache when he has to deal with the surge
in national and international interest in all forms of SETI which will
probably result from this paper. It is highly likely that because of
the Microwave Observing Project and this paper, 1992 is going to be
the Year of SETI.
Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
Columbus, Ohio
December 24, 1991
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 9
INTRODUCTION
This paper suggests that the modern Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence (SETI) [1-45,86], which was initiated by Cocconi, Morrison
[1,13], and Drake (Project Ozma) [2,3,13] is being conducted in the
wrong part of the electromagnetic spectrum, i.e., that SETI receivers
are presently "tuned to the wrong frequencies". This paper revisits a
subject first discussed by Schwartz and Townes [46-47] thirty years ago
and subsequently investigated by the late Shvartsman [48,50,54],
Connes [49], Zuckerman [52], Betz [53,57] and Beskin [58]. Dr. John
Rather (NASA-HQ) also considers that Optical SETI has much to commend
it. [56] According to the modern broader definition of the word
"optical", the wavelength region embraced covers the region between
350 nm in the ultra-violet, and far-infrared wavelengths greater than
300,000 nm (millimeter-waves start at 1 million nanometers).
Our Milky Way galaxy contains about 400 billion stars. We assume,
as does most of the SETI community, that at any time there are perhaps
thousands or tens of thousands of technical civilizations (the Drake
Equation, Page 71, Equ. 1) [2-39] within our own galaxy. There
should be at least a reasonable chance that at any time, one such
civilization might be signalling in our direction from within a sphere
several thousand light years in radius. The volume of space within a
sphere of two thousand light years in diameter contains about ten
million stars, one million of which may be capable of supporting life.
The sign of a mature technical civilization is not to waste power
over empty space, but to use refined signalling techniques in
preference to brute force. Although some authors have suggested that
optical ETI signals would appear in the form of bright flashing points
of light, this author thinks it very unlikely. The idea that such
signals will be like heliographs or semaphores, sending out intense
beams at Morse Code rates, is not one that should be seriously contem-
plated. As will be shown, there is no need to modulate the entire
output of a star in order to be detected across the galaxy. [20,33]
Just as on this planet, where there are a variety of communication
techniques employed, depending on distance, bandwidth, and techno-
logies available, there is no reason to assume that there is only one
universal communication frequency or spectral regime employed by Extra-
terrestrial Intelligences (ETIs). Different applications and environ-
ments will lead to the optimization of different technologies, so that
there may be many "magic wavelengths or frequencies". For example,
because of the huge distances and lower propagation losses, radio waves
may be better for communication between galaxies.
If the reader does not believe that advanced extraterrestrial
technical civilizations would have the wherewithal to aim tight
optical beams into neighboring stars, then they need read no further.
In correspondence with the author, Dr. Bernard Oliver, Deputy Director
of NASA's SETI Office, has put it very strongly that ETIs would not
have this capability. This viewpoint has dominated SETI rationale for
several decades, and in the author's opinion, is somewhat responsible
for the "bad press" that the optical approach has received.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 10
It is the author's view that the capability to target tight
optical beams is probably much easier to achieve than developing
relativistic or near-relativistic spacecraft. The same large optical
antenna array capability which would allow ETIs to produce narrow
transmitter beams would also allow them to "view" planets orbiting
nearby stars. Over millennia they will have developed catalogs for the
stars in their vicinity, with full details of each star's planetary
system. For them, the ballistic skills (point ahead targeting)
required to land photons on a designated target, over the equivalent of
twice the light time distance, will be relatively trivial. This is not
to discount the possibility that ETIs may send out space probes to
nearby planetary systems to gather information directly.
There is a concept inherent in the conventional SETI rationale
which might best be termed "Signpost SETI". This says, that the
signals we are looking for in the microwave spectrum, may only be
monochromatic/semi-monochromatic beacons or acquisition carriers, and
that the main transmission channels for extraterrestrials are
elsewhere. If this is the case, we might find a narrow-band modulated
microwave signal that tells us to tune to some place in the optical
regime, and perhaps provide the "Rosetta Stone" for decoding the
wideband optical channel. However, it is not clear why extra-
terrestrials would spectrally separate these signals into two different
wavelength regimes. Both the semi-monochromatic beacon and the main
wideband transmission channel could be side-by-side in the optical
spectrum (see Figure 1 below). Indeed, there would be good signal
processing reasons (advantages) for using what we terrenes would call a
"pilot-tone technique", particularly for reception within an atmosphere
(see Page 83 for a theoretical description of this technique).
Ep(t) * Signal Modulation
* Bandwidth
* <------------->
* ------------- Es(t)
* | |
Beacon * | Signal |
or * | (Main |
Pilot-Tone * | Channel) |
* | |
----------------------------------------------------------->
fp fs Optical Frequency
Figure 1 -
Signpost SETI or pilot-tone system. The beacon or pilot-tone carrier
is at frequency fp and has an electric-field amplitude Ep(t), while the
information signal with amplitude Es(t) is intensity, polarization, or
frequency-modulated onto a signal carrier at frequency fs. The
frequency separation (fs-fp) may be several MHz to several GHz,
depending upon the signal modulation bandwidth, and other factors, and
fp may be above fs. The ETI beacon or pilot-tone might also contain a
simple very low bandwidth intensity or polarization modulation
providing the Rosetta Stone for decoding the main channel.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 11
Such techniques can reduce the effect of transmitter and local-
oscillator laser phase-noise and correct for phase-noise and wavefront
distortion produced by Earth's atmosphere, allowing more efficient
reception with large heterodyning telescopes, i.e., reduced signal
fading and improved mean SNR. [81-82,84] The coherence cell size (ro)
at visible wavelengths (Wl) is approximately 20 cm (8 inches), and is
proportional to (Wl)^1.2. In the infrared at 10,600 nm, ro can be as
large as eight meters. At the best astronomical observatories in the
world, the spectral power in atmospheric turbulence is confined below
30 to 50 Hz.
Clearly, this pilot-tone technique could be used for free-space
optical communications between space and Earth with some advantage. It
also reduces the differential Doppler Shift and Chirp (Drift) by the
ratio (fs-fp)/fs; a ratio which can be of the order of 10^-8. Note
that the wideband optical signal might use spread-spectrum techniques,
so that the signal energy density might be too low to be detectable.
Without the "key" to unlock the pseudo-random sequence, we might
mistake the main signal channel for an excess amount of random noise.
There is something quite philosophically appealing about the pilot-
tone technique. It satisfies the conventional SETI rationale for the
need of a "Signpost", while at the same time provides the means for
more efficiently detecting the main wideband ETI channel from within a
planetary atmosphere.
THE MICROWAVE OBSERVING PROJECT (MOP)
From time to time, references will be made to NASA's Microwave
Observing Project, otherwise known by the acronym MOP. The objectives
of this program are summarized as follows:
Project Goal: To carry out a search for microwave signals of
extraterrestrial intelligent origin.
Project Objectives:
1. To use existing large radio telescopes, e.g. Arecibo, to carry
out a Targeted Search of about 800 nearby solar-type stars with
high spectral resolution of 1 Hz, and sensitivity in the region
of 5 X 10^-27 to 1.4 X 10^-25 W/m^2, over the frequency range
from 1 to 3 GHz. (Ames Research Center)
2. To use the 34-meter telescopes of NASA's Deep Space Network
(DSN) to carry out a Sky Survey that will examine the whole sky
at a moderate spectral resolution of 30 Hz, and sensitivity
2 X 10^-23 to 2 X 10^-22 W/m^2) over the frequency range from
1 to 10 GHz. (Jet Propulsion Laboratory - JPL)
Duration: 1990 to 1999
Cost: $12.1 million for starters, $100 million over ten years.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 12
As will be indicated later, the author would like to add (and has
recommended this to the SETI Institute) that a third objective be
added to this program, to run concurrently with the previous:
3. To solicit the help of dedicated groups of amateur astronomers
and coordinate their activities to conduct with their ground-
based optical telescopes, a low-sensitivity Targeted Search of
about 800 nearby solar-type stars with spectral resolution
< 1 nm, and sensitivity 10^-16 W/m^2. For selected wavelength
bands in the visible and near-infrared wavelength range (350 nm
to 1,200 nm).
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF
THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
Volume 3, Number 6B - January 1992
###########################
TABLE OF CONTENTS
###########################
* ASA Membership and Article Submission Information
* The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in
the Optical Spectrum, Part B - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
###########################
ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION
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COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION
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Optical SETI debate.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley Copyright (c) 1992 *
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Version: 1.00
File: EJASAV3.N06
THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6B
Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)
IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART B
Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach
by
Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS
545 Northview Drive
Columbus, Ohio 43209
United States
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 13
ASSUMPTION OF INEPTITUDE
Unfortunately, despite declarations to the contrary, many SETI
activists have been very anthropocentric and have in the main assumed
that ETIs are technically inept. The "Assumption of (Technical)
Ineptitude" (private discussions between the author and Clive Goodall),
not to be confused with the "Assumption of Mediocrity" [5-39] applied
to our own emerging technical civilization, has caused a gross under-
estimate of the technical prowess of ETIs, e.g., their capability to
aim very high-power tight beams into the life zones of nearby stars.
The onus will be on them to transmit the strongest signal with their
stellar or nuclear-pumped orbital lasers.
It is humbling to remind ourselves that just one century ago, very
few people on this planet used electricity. We have come a long way in
a short time! Yet, in the space of one hundred years, we have been
able to send astronauts to the Moon, robot probes to other planets, and
deploy a large space telescope in Earth orbit. Despite the very
unfortunate technical problems that have plagued the 2.4-meter aperture
Hubble Space Telescope (HST), we should note that being representative
of state-of-the-art terrene technology, it has a designed angular
resolution of 0.043" and a designed pointing accuracy of 0.012". [59-62]
In 1961, just after the invention of the laser and only two years
following Cocconi and Morrison's [1] classic paper which initiated
modern SETI, Schwartz and Townes [46-47] (of laser fame) suggested that
in other societies, laser communications technology may have been
developed before microwave communications. From looking at the
development of technology during the Twentieth Century, it is probable
that the development of microwave and laser technology must occur
within a short time of each other. As Schwartz and Townes implied,
another society, having developed laser technology first, might
cultivate a SETI rationale which was based on the superiority of laser
communications over its radio frequency counterpart. It may only be a
historical accident that the science of SETI on this planet became so
dominated by radio astronomers.
Even Townes and his colleagues [46-47,51-53] have been somewhat
constrained in imagination by limiting beam divergences to be greater
than about one second of arc. A uniformly illuminated diffraction
limited ten-meter diameter carbon dioxide (CO2) transmitter has a FWHM
beamwidth equals 0.22 arc seconds (see Table 1, Page 19, and Table 2,
Line 5, Page 22), so that even this system has a beam that is slightly
too narrow by their definition. Note that more recently, Betz [57] has
reduced the technical limits on beam divergence to 0.1 arc seconds.
When we decide what might be technically feasible in one hundred, one
thousand, or ten thousand years, the only thing which should constrain
our imagination are the laws of physics as we presently know them. We
are reminded that mere decades ago, the idea of geosynchronous
communication satellites and men walking on the Moon was considered
science fiction by most people.
Although SETI is about the passive activity of listening for
signals, otherwise it would be (and was) called CETI (Communications
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 14
With Extraterrestrial Intelligence), how close are we to being able to
transmit strong gigawatt-type optical signals across the galaxy? The
answer to this question is that we are now much closer in time to be
in a position to do this than we are to the Industrial Revolution.
This is practically no time at all on the Cosmic Time Scale. Perhaps
SETI is one way to take those Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)
"swords" on both sides of the now defunct Iron Curtain and turn them
into CETI "plowshares"!
PROFESSIONAL OPTICAL SETI
In this paper, the model employed for the Professional Optical SETI
analysis is based on a very modest continuous wave (C.W.) transmitter
power of 1 kilowatt (1 kW) over a range of ten light years. As a
modelling convenience, it assumes symmetrical systems, i.e., that the
receiver aperture is identical to that of the transmitter. This
symmetrical modelling technique is one often adopted by previous
comparative analyses. In reality, because by definition Extra-
terrestrial Intelligences (ETIs) will be older and more technically
mature civilizations, if and when we do detect ETI, it will be found
that the alien transmitters are huge compared to our own puny receivers.
Figure 2 is a schematic diagram showing the most important features
of a heterodyning receiving system (Equs. 23, 32, and 34) suitable for
Professional Optical SETI. The optical pre-detection filter is not
really required for SETI activities because of the excellent background
noise rejection inherent in such systems. In practice, such a receiver
would at least be duplicated for the detection of two orthogonally-
polarized or circularly-polarized signal components.
This optical heterodyne receiver might well use a dye local-
oscillator laser that has very narrow linewidth (< 5 kHz), and which
is tunable across the entire visible and near-infrared regimes. The
intermediate frequency (I.F.) bandwidth of such a system might be as
high as 10 GHz. The output of each photodetector might be taken to a
single 10 GHz Multi-Channel Spectrum Analyzer (MCSA) which sequentially
samples all 16,384 photodetectors in the 128 X 128 pixel array, or
there might be one MCSA for every row or for every photodetector,
leading to substantial reductions in search time.
For several practical reasons, e.g., Doppler de-chirping, it is
likely that the alternative coherent detection technique called
"homodyne detection" (Equ. 33), which is essentially equivalent to a
heterodyne system with a zero I.F., would not be used for the frequency
search, though it might be employed after acquisition of an ETI signal.
One major reason why the SETI community generally discounts the
optical approach is the considerable amount of quantum noise generated
by optical photons. As we increase frequency, the number of photons
for a given flux intensity progressively falls, so that there is a
noise component associated with the statistics of photon arrival times,
which exceeds the thermal kT noise. If Bif is the electrical
bandwidth, it is assumed that sufficient photons arrive in the observa-
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 15
I
----------<--------
|
-- Beamcombiner |
Signal Pr | | ------- |
-----------> | | -------> | . | ---->> ----- PIN Photodetector
-----------> | | -------> | . | ---->> / \ (One detector in a
-----------> | | -------> | . | ---->> ----- 128 X 128 array)
Background | | ------- |
Pb -- ^ ^ ^ ^ | -----
Optional | | | | | | |
Optical | | | | --->---| |---->
Bandpass Filter | | | | Po | |
| | | | -----
------------- Intermediate Frequency
| | Electrical Bandpass Filter
| Local | Bif
Po >> Pr | Oscillator |
| Laser |
| |
-------------
|
|
-----------------<----------------
Frequency Control
Figure 2 -
Coherent optical heterodyne receiver. The diagram shows just a single
photodetector, but in a large professional heterodyning telescope, a
focal-plane array of about 128 X 128 photodetectors would be used to
reduced the search time. This would also ensure that if a star is
centered on the array, the signal from an orbiting ETI transmitter
would fall on the same pixel or on an adjacent one within the array
area, depending on the distance of the star, the orbital distance and
position of the transmitter, and its plane of ecliptic. For each array
pixel (photodetector), the local-oscillator power Po >> the received
signal Pr to ensure quantum noise limited detection. A focussed local-
oscillator (L.O.) laser may be scanned across the photodetector array
in synchronism with the electronic sampling of the array. This would
avoid the requirement for a high power L.O., and would thus eliminate
heat dissipation problems in the array.
tion or measurement time 1/Bif, for Gaussian and Poisson statistics to
apply. In practice, this means that about ten photons have to be
detected during each measurement interval. For the photon-starved
situation at small and negative Carrier-To-Noise Ratios (CNRs), the
(analog) CNR values are somewhat meaningless.
The effective noise temperature (Equ. 30) of the 656 nm system
modelled in this paper is 43,900 Kelvin, considerably more than the
10 K of the microwave system. However, it is the potential high-gain
transmitting capability of optical antennas (Equ. 10) which can more
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 16
than make up for this 36 dB reduction in sensitivity (36 dB increase in
the noise floor). As a reference performance criterion, it should be
noted that a symmetrical microwave system based on the 300-meter
diameter Arecibo radio telescope on the island of Puerto Rico, a 1 kW
transmitter and a 10 K system temperature, would produce a CNR of about
20 dB re 1 Hz (this is illustrated in Figure 4, Page 28).
For discussions about Professional Optical SETI heterodyne
receivers, we will often refer to the term Signal-To-Noise Ratio (SNR)
in a generic manner as a means of denoting signal detectability. In
such cases, what we really mean is CNR, as the measurement is taken at
the intermediate frequency (I.F.) before electrical demodulation
(detection) of the signal. In the material on Amateur Optical SETI
photon-counting receivers, we will be dealing with the post-detection
signal-to-noise ratio, so it is more accurately denoted by the term SNR.
Communication engineers know that it is often expedient to
normalize the CNR or SNR to a 1 Hz electrical bandwidth; a bandwidth
which is thought to be substantially smaller than the minimum bin
bandwidth required for actual SETI observations with Professional
Optical SETI receivers. This allows us to subtract 10 dB from the CNR
(SNR) for each decade increase in electrical bandwidth. For instance,
a CNR (SNR) of 94 dB re (with respect to) 1 Hz is equivalent to 19 dB
re 30 MHz, a figure arrived at by subtracting 10.log(30 X 10^6) from
94 dB. We shall be referencing these particular numbers again later.
A bandwidth of "1 Hz" has a special significance to Microwave SETI
researchers. It is often the minimum bin bandwidth employed to analyze
the received signals as dispersion effects and Doppler chirp rates in
the low microwave region, i.e., around 1.5 GHz, would spread the most
monochromatic of signals to that order (Table 2, Line 30, Page 22)
shows the maximum equatorial ground-based chirp due to Earth's rotation
to be about 0.17 Hz/s). Thus, it is important to realize that for this
Optical SETI analysis, the 1 Hz bandwidth is used just for the con-
venience of normalizing the SNR. It does not imply anything about the
ideal electrical (I.F.) or post-detection bandwidth. Note that in this
study, it is generally assumed that the optical predetection bandwidth
is at least twice the electrical or post-detection bandwidth.
Although in Figure 2 we have indicated an optoelectronic front-end
array, it is possible that future developments in photonic computer
technology will allow for the employment of an all-optical receiver and
signal processing array.
In terms of mean transmitter power, it is useful to normalize
the different ETI transmitters to a basic unit of 1 kW. Again, this
implies no preconception about the actual powers available to ETIs,
which inevitably will be far in excess of this. The noise level
associated with the signal is assumed to be only that due to quantum
shot noise. For power-starved receiving condition, non-Poisson noise
at optical frequencies may actually raise the noise floor and degrade
the CNR. In the quantum (Poisson) limited detection case, for every
factor of ten that we increase the power, the CNR (SNR) will increase
by 10 dB. If the optical receiver is background or internally noise
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 17
Relative Levels Per Pixel re 1 Hz
|
34 dB |___1 kW Signal *** 1.6 X 10^-15 W______
| *S*
| *I* CNR = 34 dB re 1 Hz
| *G*
0 dB |___Quantum Shot Noise_________*N*________6.3 X 10^-19 W/Hz___
| .A.
| .L.
| . .
-32 dB |___Planckian Continuum__ . . __4.0 X 10^-22 W/Hz___
| \ . . /
| \ . . /
-52 dB |___Fraunhofer Dark Line_ \___._.___/ __4.0 X 10^-24 W/Hz___
| <----------->
| H_alpha (656.2808 nm) Bandwidth = 0.402 nm = 280 GHz
-72 dB |___Day_Sky_______________________________4.0 X 10^-26 W/Hz___
|
|
|
|
|
-154 dB |___Night_Sky_____________________________2.5 X 10^-34 W/Hz___
|
| H_alpha
-------------------------------------------------------------
Wavelength or Frequency
Figure 3 -
Spectral levels at a range of ten light years, per diffraction limited
pixel. The normalized transmitter power is 1 kW at 656 nm, and various
noise sources for a space-based or adaptive ground-based heterodyne
observatory are indicated. Both the transmitter and receiver are of
10 meters aperture and are assumed perfect. Receiver quantum
efficiency equals 0.5. For convenience, the quantum noise level is
taken as a reference level from which the signal and other noise
sources are measured. Fraunhofer dark lines are typically 10 to 20 dB
below the Planckian continuum level.
limited, the CNR (SNR) will increase by 20 dB. Figure 3 is a graph of
signal and relative noise spectral levels for an imagined symmetrical
visible SETI system with heterodyne receiver (Equs. 32 and 34).
One of the main benefits from the optical approach is its ability
to sustain wideband communications over vast distances with very high
Effective Isotropic Radiated Powers (EIRPs), but using relatively small
apertures (Equ. 10). The latter attribute is particularly useful for
spacecraft applications. [63-66] The EIRP is the apparent power that
the transmitter would have to emit for a given received signal
intensity, if it was an isotropic radiator, i.e., if it radiated energy
uniformly in all directions, instead of confining the energy to a
narrow beam. It is given by the product of the antenna gain and
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 18
transmitter power (Equ. 11). The 656 nm system has a Full Width Half
Maximum (FWHM) beamwidth of 0.014 arcseconds (Page 73), so that over
ten light years, the beam diameter has expanded to about 0.04
Astronomical Units (A.U.); roughly two percent of the diameter of
Earth's solar orbit (Page 74)!
For many years the author had been perplexed by the fact the optical
approach to SETI had been ignored. There was very much a feeling of
"What did the SETI community know that he did not?". Investigations
over the past eighteen months indicate that to a large extent, the
answer to this paradox was that the SETI community had simply refused
to believe in the possibility that ETIs could aim narrow beams, such as
the 0.04 A.U. dia. beam just described, and hit their targeted planet.
PROJECT CYCLOPS
In this paper, many references are made to the Project Cyclops [5]
study and the effect that it has had on SETI thinking over the past
two decades. Table 1 is taken from this report, which illustrates this
author's view that Cyclops has been at least partially responsible for
the lack of interest in the optical approach to SETI after the early
1970s.
The first column A is the most revealing in this comparison table,
in that it models an ETI transmitter at the Nd:YAG (Neodymium: Yttrium-
Aluminum-Garnet) laser wavelength of 1,060 nm, that has an aperture of
22.5 cm! As can be seen, in the Cyclops analysis, the onus for
detecting a strong signal has been placed at the receiver end of the
system, where by definition, the technology available would be far
inferior to that at the transmitter. The resulting huge multi-mirror
receiving telescope system is thus incredibly expensive.
The performance of the 1.06 um (1.06 microns) and 10.6 um systems
modelled in the Cyclops study have been severely compromised by
restricting the transmitters and receivers to ground-based operation
within terrestrial-type atmosphere, and limiting beamwidths to
one second of arc. As previously mentioned, the atmospheric coherence
cell size (ro) is about 20 cm (8") at Wl = 0.5 um, and is proportional
to Wl^(6/5). The A infrared systems are essentially state-of-the-art
for 1971. The B infrared systems are futuristic for 1971. If we
assume that the 1 ns pulses have a repetition rate of one per second in
the case of the first 1.06 um Nd:YAG system (Optical System A), the
average power is only a modest 1 kW. One does wonder though, what a
peak power of 1 Terrawatt (1,000 GW) would do to a 22.5 cm diameter
transmitting mirror, or the air contained within the telescope!
SETI COMPARISONS
This paper describes two basic types of Optical SETI receiver; the
Professional (coherent) heterodyne system and the Amateur (incoherent)
photon-counting system. However, there is no reason why a professional
receiver could not use photon-counting, and vice versa, why an amateur
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 19
==========================================================================
Table 1 Project Cyclops comparison scenarios
==========================================================================
OPTICAL INFRARED MICROWAVE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
PARAMETER A B A B A B
Wavelength 1.06 um 1.06 um 10.6 um 10.6 um 3 cm 3 cm
==========================================================================
TRANSMITTER
==========================================================================
Antenna Diameter 22.5 cm 22.5 cm 2.25 m 2.25 m 100 m 3 km*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Of Elements 1 1 1 1 1 900
Element Diameter 22.5 cm 22.5 cm 2.25 m 2.25 m 100 m 100 m
Antenna Gain 4.4x10^11 4.4x10^11 4.4x10^11 4.4x10^11 1.1x10^8 9.8x10^10
Peak or CW Power, W 10^12 10^5 10^5 10^5 10^5 10^5
Modulation Pulse Pulse Pulse PSK PSK PSK
Pulse, s 10^-9 1 1 1 1 1
Energy per Bit, J 10^3 10^5 10^5 10^5 10^5 10^5
EIRP, W 4.4x10^23 4.4x10^16 4.4x10^16 4.4x10^16 1.1x10^13 9.9x10^15
Beamwidth 1" 1" 1" 1" 64" 1"
==========================================================================
RECEIVER
==========================================================================
Antenna Diameter 100 m 100 m 100 m 2.25 m 100 m 3 km*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Of Elements 400 400 1975 1 1 900
Element Diameter 5 m 5 m 2.25 m 2.25 m 100 m 100 m
Atmosphere Tran. 0.7 0.7 0.5 0.5 1 1
Quantum Effic. 0.4 0.1 0.2 0.2 0.9 0.9
Solar Background 1.2x10^-3 36 1.7x10^-3 6x10^-7 ----- -----
Noise Temp., K 13,600 13,600 1360 1360 20 20
RF Bandwidth 1 GHz 3 MHz 3 kHz 1 Hz 1 Hz 1 Hz
Detection Method Photon Photon Sq. Law Synch. Synch. Synch.
Range Limit (L.Y.) 26 24 22 41 500 450,000
State Of The Art? ? No ? No Yes Yes
All Weather? No No No No Yes Yes
==========================================================================
* Array spread out to 6.4 km diameter to avoid vignetting.
Data taken from Table 5-3, page 50, July 1973 revised edition
(CR 114445) of the Project Cyclops design study of a system for
detecting extraterrestrial life. [5] This study was prepared under
Stanford/NASA/Ames Research Center 1971 summer faculty fellowship
program in engineering systems design. Note that at the time the
Cyclops study was done, the field of "optoelectronics" (photonics) had
not yet really begun. Thus, what the Cyclops study called "Optical" is
really a superset of both "near-infrared", and "infrared". In this
Optical SETI paper, "optical" covers the entire spectrum from ultra-
violet to the far-infrared. The near-infrared 1.06 um ETI transmitter
for the Optical System A is only 22.5 cm in diameter, and is modelled
to be putting out 1 kW pulses of 1 ns duration, with a peak power of
one trillion watts and corresponding peak EIRP of 4.4 X 10^23 W!
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 20
receiver could not use heterodyne detection. The definition adopted
here is one based purely on performance and cost grounds.
We now continue with the comparisons between various type of
professional heterodyning SETI systems as tabulated in Table 2
(Page 22). It should be noted that while the microwave system in this
table is based on a 100-meter diameter dish, the microwave system
modelled in Figure 4 (Page 28) is based on a 300-meter diameter
Arecibo-type dish. The 100-meter diameter dish system of Table 2,
corresponds to the Microwave System A modelled in the Cyclops study
(Table 1, Page 19), each dish being one of up to nine hundred similar
dishes making up the Cyclops array.
The infrared telescope system is very similar to ones previously
modelled by Townes, Betz, and Zuckerman. [46-47,51-53,57] Note that by
increasing the 10,600 nm infrared transmitting and receiving
telescopes' diameters to twenty meters, the SNR (CNR) obtained can be
increased to the same value (34 dB) indicated for the 656 nm visible
system (Table 2, Line 26). Since the Carbon Dioxide (CO2) laser is
very efficient, coherent, and CO2 is likely to be readily available
where life becomes established, 10,600 nm may be considered a "magic
optical wavelength". [46-58] This wavelength is also capable of
propagating with little attenuation across substantial portions of the
Milky Way galaxy. The beam divergence is such as to make the targeting
of nearby stars easier. There is also an approximately sixty percent
atmospheric window at this wavelength.
All these telescopes, save for the Cyclops Array (Table 1) [5], may
be considered as "puny" for an Advanced Technical Civilization (ATC),
but are representative of state-of-the-art terrene technology,
technology available either now or within the next decade. The results
are based on "perfect" space-based systems (save for the daylight
background factor), so in practice, several dB may have to be taken off
the calculated SNR to account for imperfections, and atmospheric
absorption and turbulence, if ground-based. Because optical heterodyne
receivers are proposed for the professional optical systems, Planckian
starlight and daylight have no effect on ground-based system
performance if the local-oscillator power per pixel (per photodetector)
is a lot greater than the background power. Large ground-based optical
telescopes would likely use adaptive deformable mirror and laser guide-
star technology for removing the "twinkle" from the star and
transmitter's image. [68-70] The performance of such telescopes should
exceed the theoretical performance of the HST. [59-62] This technology
may be available within five years, and will be described in more
detail later.
The "pilot-tone" technique briefly described on Page 10, used in
conjunction with a photodetector array, might allow the implementation
of a Maximal Ratio Predetection Diversity receiver. This leads to a
very simple adaptive receiver which could be operated both during the
day and night. As previously indicated, a more detailed description of
how this operates may be found in Appendix A (Page 83). It should be
kept in mind that getting a "perfect" image of a star and/or an ETI
transmitter is a more rigorous pursuit than just collecting all the
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 21
photons emitted by the ETI transmitter, wherever they fall within the
photodiode array area.
Table 2 (Page 22) summarizes the salient points of the comparison
between different electromagnetic communications technologies as
applied to SETI, using heterodyning telescopes. [71-79] A preferred
wavelength, not shown in this table, might be 1,060 nm, corresponding
to the Nd:YAG transitions in the near-infrared. The corresponding SNR
for a 10-meter diameter 1,060 nm system is 32.1 dB.
Given a modest extension to our technology over the next century,
such wideband terrene interstellar links should become feasible,
though they would use digital modulation and compression techniques
to reduce the required bandwidth and enhance the SNR. The apparent
visual intensity of the 1 GW transmitter, the power output of a
typical Twentieth Century terrene power station, would rise from an
apparent magnitude of +22.7 to +7.7. This is still below unaided human
eye visibility (sixth magnitude) even if not obscured by the light of
its star, and amounts to only 0.62% of the star's visual intensity (not
corrected for wavelength). This result demonstrates that references in
the literature to the fact that such signals have never been seen by
the unaided eye, or detected in low-resolution spectrographs, proves
nothing about whether ETIs are transmitting in the visible spectrum.
Simply put, a powerful communications signal is still weak compared to
a star's (integrated over wavelength) output radiated in our direction.
Table 2, Line 11 -
The reader is left to judge whether ATCs (ETIs) would have the
wherewithal to aim narrow optical beams over tens and hundreds of
light years and still be sure that their signal would strike a planet
orbiting within the targeted star's biosphere (zone of life). Perhaps
it is this assumption alone that is the key to the efficacy of the
optical approach to SETI. The option is available to defocus
(decollimate) the transmitted beam when targeting nearby stars. In
such a situation, the signal strength would be weakened (reduced EIRP)
for nearby target systems, but would remain relatively constant when
operated on more remote targets out to distances of several thousand
light years. It does not make sense to cripple, which is the result of
Dr. Bernard Oliver's approach, [5] the long-range performance of Extra-
terrestrial Intelligence (ETI) transmitters just because the beams
happen to be too narrow for nearby stars.
Clifford Singer [15] has described how superior ETI technical
prowess for transmitting microwave signals at certain preferred times
related to the targeted star's proper motion can lead to an enhanced
transmission efficiency, making it more likely that the recipient
will be able to detect those signals. In a similar vein, Filippova and
others [55] have suggested that ETIs might make use of the moment of
opposition to ensure that a narrow optical beam aimed at a star would
be detectable at a target planet approaching opposition. Dr. John
Rather, in the August, 1991 issue of the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH
INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS) [56], describes huge Optical ETI
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 22
=========================================================================
Table 2 Summary of SETI performance for (symmetrical) professional
heterodyne communication systems over a range of 10 light years.
=========================================================================
MICROWAVE SETI OPTICAL SETI
PARAMETER SINGLE DISH INFRARED VISIBLE
=========================================================================
1. Wavelength 0.20 m 10,600 nm 656 nm
2. Frequency, Hz 1.50 X 10^9 2.83 X 10^13 4.57 X 10^14
=========================================================================
TRANSMITTERS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Diameter, m 100 10 10
4. Gain, dB 63.9 129.4 153.6
5. FWHM Beamwidth, arcsecs. 421 0.223 0.0138
6. Power, kW 1 1 1
7. EIRP, W 2.47 X 10^9 8.78 X 10^15 2.29 X 10^18
=========================================================================
RECEIVERS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Diameter, m 100 10 10
9. Gain, dB 63.9 129.4 153.6
10. FWHM Beamwidth, arcsecs. 421 0.223 0.0138
11. FWHM Diameter, A.U. 1,290 0.684 0.0423
12. Intensity, W/m^2 2.19 X 10^-26 7.81 X 10^-20 2.04 X 10^-17
13. Signal, W 1.72 X 10^-22 6.13 X 10^-18 1.60 X 10^-15
14. Photon Count, s^-1 NA 163 2,640
15. Equivalent Magnitude NA NA +22.7
16. Quantum Efficiency NA 0.5 0.5
17. Effec. Noise Temp., K 10 2,719 43,900
18. Planckian, W/m^2.Hz* 8.80 X 10^-33 1.07 X 10^-25 2.74 X 10^-24
19. Star Stellar Magnitude NA NA +2.2
20. Relative Brightness, % NA NA 6.2 X 10^-7
21. Alien Planet Magnitude NA NA +24
22. SPR, dB* 64.0 55.7 65.7
23. Minimum SPR, dB* 64.0 69.5 115.7
24. Daylight, W/m^2.sr.nm NA 2 X 10^-3 1 X 10^-1
25. SDR, dB* NA 50.6 106.0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
26. SNR, dB* 1.0 22.1 34.2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
27. Radial Doppler, Hz 1.0 X 10^5 1.9 X 10^9 3.1 X 10^10
28. Orbital Doppler, Hz 1.5 X 10^5 2.8 X 10^9 4.6 X 10^10
29. Synchronous Chirp, Hz/s 1.1 X 10^0 2.1 X 10^4 3.4 X 10^5
30. Ground-Based Chirp, Hz/s 1.7 X 10^-1 3.2 X 10^3 5.1 X 10^4
31. Symbiotic Cost, $M 2 20 20
32. Ground-Based Cost, $M 200 200 200
33. Space-Based Cost, $M 100 10,000 10,000
=========================================================================
FWHM = Full Width Half Maximum (3 dB beamwidth).
1 Astronomical Unit (A.U.) = 1.496 X 10^11 m.
1 Light Year (L.Y.) = 9.461 X 10^15 m = 63,239 A.U.
1 parsec (psc) = 3.26 L.Y.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 23
* Signal-To-Noise (SNR) and Signal-To-Planck/Daylight (SPR and SDR)
Ratios assume polarized starlight and background, with no Fraunhofer
dark-line suppression (typically 10 to 20 dB).
Signal-To-Noise Ratios (SNRs) in the galactic plane fall at the
rate of 20 dB per decade of range (see Equ. 38), out to approximately
one thousand light years in the visible regime, where attenuation by
gas and dust begins to become significant. The attenuation in the
visible, of 4 dB per three thousand light years (equivalent to a one
stellar magnitude reduction in brightness), drops significantly away
from the galactic plane.
The following numbers refer to the line numbers given in Table 2
and give a more detailed description of the parameters:
5. Full Width Half Maximum (FWHM) far-field beamwidth (Equ. 4).
8. The Cyclops Array proposed in 1971 consisted of nine hundred
100-meter diameter dishes (of the type modelled in the table)
covering an area 6.4 kilometers in diameter.
11. Full Width Half Maximum (FWHM) size of received beam (Equ. 5).
14. The rate at which photons are detected (Equ. 36).
15. Apparent visual magnitude of transmitter is not corrected for
visible wavelength (Equ. 2).
20. Relative brightness of transmitter in comparison to unpolarized
Planckian starlight from a G-type star (black-body at 5,800 K).
21. Apparent Stellar Magnitude of reflected Planckian starlight
from a Jupiter-size extrasolar planet. Note that if we want to
detect an extrasolar planet directly, it is easier to do so by
detecting its emitted heat in the infrared than by detecting
reflected light in the visible.
22. Signal-To-Planck Ratio (SPR) for a solar-type star at the
heterodyned I.F. frequency, assuming star and transmitter are
not separately resolved.
23. Minimum Signal-To-Planck Ratio (SPR) for a solar-type star at
the heterodyned I.F. frequency, assuming star and transmitter
are separately resolved (Equ. 9).
24. Background daylight sky radiance for ground-based visible and
infrared telescopes. For the latter, the 300 K temperature of
the atmosphere presents a relatively constant 24 hour/day
background.
25. Signal-To-Daylight Ratio (SDR) per pixel for diffraction-limited
ground-based visible and infrared telescopes.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 24
26. For convenience, SNRs (CNRs) are normalized to a 1 Hz
electrical bandwidth. The value for the microwave system is
given by Equ. 29. The values for the optical systems are given
by Equs. 32 and 34.
27. Typical Doppler Shift (+/-) due to line-of-sight relative
motions between stars at 20 km/s (Equ. 39).
28. Maximum local Doppler Shift (+/-) due to motion of transmitter/
receiver around solar-type star (1 A.U. orbit).
29. Maximum local Doppler Drift (+/-) for transmitter/receiver in
geosynchronous orbit around Earth-type planet (Equ. 40).
30. Maximum local Doppler Drift (+/-) for a ground-based equatorial
transmitter/receiver on an Earth-type planet.
31. Approximate ground-based receiver cost (millions), assuming
re-use or sharing of existing observatories in each hemisphere.
32. Approximate ground-based receiver cost (millions), assuming a
new dedicated (adaptive) telescope in each hemisphere.
33. Approximate receiver cost (millions) for a single space-based
telescope. A very conservative estimate has been used.
transmitting arrays which are of planetary size, sending out powerful
Free-Electron Laser beams to an enormous number of stars simultan-
eously. Huge arrays can provide an extended Rayleigh (near-field)
range so that the flux densities remain constant (the inverse square
law does not apply) out to considerable distances (Equ. 7, Page 74).
Table 2, Line 15 -
In this table, the apparent visual magnitude and brightness of a
star, planet, or transmitter, is given for comparison purposes, and
is defined only for visible wavelengths, since infrared light is
invisible. The apparent visual magnitude of the transmitter is
essentially independent of the optical detection bandwidth as long as
it is equal to or greater than the signal bandwidth, i.e., it is the
same for an optical bandwidth of 1 Hz, 1 MHz, or 1 THz; these band-
widths being much less than that of the human eye.
Table 2, Line 20 -
This shows the apparent visual intensity of the transmitter with
respect to the alien star (Equ. 2). If the 656 nm 1 kW transmitter
power is increased by six orders of magnitude to 1 GW, the received
signal will increase to 1.6 nW (2.6 X 10^9 photons detected per
second), and the Carrier-To-Noise Ratio (CNR) will increase to 94 dB.
In a 30 MHz bandwidth this CNR will fall to 19 dB. This is more than
adequate to transmit a standard analog NTSC/PAL/SECAM F.M. video
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 25
signal over 10 light years, though at a range of 100 light years the
CNR would fall to an unusable -1 dB (the F.M. threshold is typically
7 to 10 dB).
Table 2, Line 23 -
The Signal-To-Planck Ratio (SPR) on this line takes into account
the ability of large diffraction-limited optical telescopes to
spatially separate in the focal plane, the image of the transmitted
signal from the image of the aliens' star (Equs. 8 and 9). This leads
to the Signal-To-Planckian Ratio (SPR) being about 10 dB greater than
the Signal-To-Daylight Ratio (SDR). Clearly, even when the signal
source and Planckian noise (Equ. 3) are not optically separable, the
ratio of the signal to the Planckian background noise is much greater
than the quantum shot noise SNR, so it is not limiting on performance.
Contrary to statements in the literature [12], there may be no need
to select a laser wavelength to coincide with a Fraunhofer line if
optical heterodyne reception is assumed. This is really useful only
when incoherent optical detection techniques are employed (see the
later material on Amateur Optical SETI) with their relatively wideband
optical filters. However, it might be advisable to avoid bright
emission lines that rise substantially above the continuum level.
For an advanced technical society, a laser transmitting telescope
is only "slightly" more difficult to construct than a microwave
transmitting dish, though Isaac Asimov appeared to think otherwise in
the late 1970s. Towards the end of his 1979 book, EXTRATERRESTRIAL
CIVILIZATIONS [12] (page 263), Asimov says: "With laser light we come
closer to a practical signaling device than anything yet mentioned,
but even a laser signal originating from some planet would, at great
distances, be drowned out by the general light of the star the planet
circles." He goes on to say: "One possibility that has been suggested
is this: The spectra of Sun-type stars have numerous dark lines
representing missing photons - photons that have been preferentially
absorbed by specific atoms in the stars' atmospheres. Suppose a
planetary civilization sends out a strong laser beam at the precise
energy level of one of the prominent dark lines of the star's spectrum.
That would brighten that dark line...." Asimov went on to imply that a
laser system was complicated and that no civilization would be expected
to use the harder method if a simpler (microwave) method is available.
This erroneous idea that laser transmitters have to outshine stars
to be detectable has unfortunately been accepted by many in the SETI
community. Dr. Jill Tarter [24] (Chapter 14, SETI: THE FARTHEST
FRONTIER, Page 192) has said that "Any optical communications signal
coming from a planet circling a distant star would have to outshine the
star itself in order for us to detect it". As we have seen, this is
simply not true. Indeed, as we shall show later, even small incoherent
receivers with optical bandwidths as large as 100 GHz can produce
electronically detectable signals at intensities considerably below
that of nearby stars. Note that this statement has nothing to do with
the assumed technical beaming prowess of ETIs, only that a visible
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 26
wavelength signal strong enough for good communications, is still weak
compared to a star's visual brightness (intensity).
With optical heterodyne receivers, whose performance is essentially
independent of the optical pre-mixing bandwidth (the effective optical
bandwidth for background noise calculations is equal to the electrical
intermediate frequency bandwidth), there does not appear to be any
necessity to operate within a Fraunhofer dark absorption line in order
to avail ourselves of 10 to 20 dB of Planckian continuum noise
suppression. The "magic-wavelength" would thus be determined only by
the availability of highly efficient and coherent laser frequencies.
Table 2, Line 25 -
The high Signal-To-Daylight (background) ratio indicates that
Optical SETI is one of the few branches of optical astronomy, save for
solar astronomy, which can be conducted during daylight hours under a
clear, blue Earth sky. Since the background detected per diffraction
limited pixel is essentially independent of aperture, this ratio
(shown for 45 degrees to the zenith) is proportional to the receiving
telescope's aperture area, as is the quantum SNR. The Signal-To-
Nightlight ratio for ground-based observatories is some 80 dB greater.
Thus, it is suggested that Optical SETI observations with the
great optical telescopes of Earth could be conducted during daylight
hours while conventional astronomy is conducted at night. Also,
telescopes which have been decommissioned due to light pollution
effects might be brought back into service. A future symbiotic
relationship (sharing of facilities) between Optical SETI and
conventional astronomy, could allow Optical SETI to be conducted for
one-tenth the cost indicated on Line 32 for dedicated observatories,
i.e., for about twenty million dollars (United States currency).
Table 2, Line 26 -
This is the bottom line, showing the SNR (CNR) normalized to a
1 Hz bandwidth. The 34 dB CNR for the 656 nm system corresponds to a
photon detection rate of 2,640 per second (Equ. 36). For practical
Professional Optical SETI searches, we should be looking for signals
with minimum bandwidths of about 100 kHz. As long as the Signal-To-
Planck and Signal-To-Daylight ratios are larger than the quantum SNR,
the former do not reduce the system performance. It should be noted
that at a frequency of 1.5 GHz (wavelength = 20 cm), the full
6.4-kilometer diameter microwave Cyclops Project [5], which in 1971
would have cost about ten billion dollars, only achieves an SNR of
60 dB (see Table 1, Page 19). This is about 26 dB greater than for a
10-meter diameter symmetrical visible system.
Other than the fact that interstellar absorption at microwave
frequencies for distances in excess of a few thousand light years is
significantly less than in the visible spectrum, the Microwave Cyclops
system has little to commend it for communications within the solar
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 27
neighborhood, particularly as the cost of the receiver is about one
hundred times that of a single-aperture ground-based optical counter-
part. This is good grounds for thinking "small is beautiful". For
some strange reason, while free-space laser communications appears to
be fine for future terrene GEO (Geosynchronous Earth Orbit) to LEO
(Low Earth Orbit) and deep-space communications (much of this work is
being coordinated by NASA [63-66]), the SETI community appears to be
convinced that ETIs would not use such technology for interstellar
communications! This is illogical. A presently favored operating
wavelength for terrene free-space communications systems is 530 nm
(green), obtained by frequency-doubling the 1,060 nm wavelength
produced by a laser-diode pumped Nd:YAG laser.
As previously mentioned, terrene SETI programs appear to have been
distorted by poor assumptions in the Cyclops study (see Table 1,
Page 19). [5] As we showed earlier, the efficacy of the optical
approach was severely hampered by constraining the near-infrared
transmitting telescope size to 22.5 cm. It boggles the mind to think
that ETIs would be trying to contact us with their equivalent of a
Celestron or Meade telescope. This would put the onus on us to build
very large and expensive multi-aperture receiving telescopes to pick up
their weak signals; surely the very opposite would be the case! The
Cyclops study was unable even to predict the rise in ascendancy of the
ubiquitous semiconductor chip over the following five years, and the
effect it would have on SETI signal processing, even though integrated
circuits were being developed in the editors' backyard!
Present-day experimental ground-based free-space communications
links are already using receiving telescope apertures as large as
1.5 meters. [66] Since the overall performance of symmetrical systems
is proportional to the telescope diameter raised to the sixth to eighth
power (allowing for power density limitations due to heating effects
at the transmitter mirror), poor estimations about transmitting and
receiving telescope apertures can drastically skew a comparative
systems analysis. In practice, transmitting and receiving telescopes
are likely to be extremely asymmetric. If we do discover an optical
ETI signal in the next few decades, it will probably be found to have
been transmitted by a huge optical array, while our receiving antenna
will be a relatively puny telescope.
Figure 4 shows a graph of received signal spectral density,
superimposed on the Planckian spectral density curve for a (solar-type)
black body radiator at a temperature of 5,778 K. The microwave system
performance shown in this graph is based on the 300-meter diameter
Arecibo telescope; producing a CNR some 19 dB greater than for the
100-meter radio telescope system modelled in Table 2 (Page 22).
The reader is encouraged to compare this graph to that given in
FIRST CONTACT [26] (Chapter 4, Page 151, by Dr. Michael Klein). The
first impressions from that graph (Figure 1 of Chapter 4) is again
that optical communications are useless. This is far from the truth.
Indeed, the graph is very misleading. One might be forgiven for
thinking that in this model the ETIs are using Compact Disc-type
laser-diodes and/or hobby model-type telescopes! The assumed
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 28
Spectral Density, W/m^2.Hz
|
10^-15 |
| EIRP = 2.3 X 10^18 W 23rd Mag.
| *
| EIRP = 8.7 X 10^15 W * CNR = 34 dB
| * * .
10^-20 | CNR = 22 dB * *. Quantum
| *. * Noise
| . * *
| * #656 nm Beacon
| EIRP = 2.2 X 10^10 W * # | #(10 m Dia.)
10^-25 | * 10,600 nm Beacon # | |
| * CNR = 20 dB (10 m Dia.) # |V| #
| . .*. . . . . . . # |I| 2nd Mag.
| * Temp. = 10 K # ^ |S| #Starlight
| * # | |I|
10^-30 | * # Planckian |B| #
| * # Black Body |L|
| # 1.5 GHz Beacon Curve |E| #
| # (300 m Dia.) | |
|# |L| #
10^-35 | |I|
| |G| #
| |H|
| Microwave Millimeter Infrared |T| Ultra #
| | | Violet
10^-40 ----------------------------------------------------------------
10^8 10^9 10^10 10^11 10^12 10^13 10^14 10^15 10^16
Frequency, Hz
Figure 4 -
Spectral density and interstellar CNR for 1 kW (SETI) signals at
ten light years. Quantum Efficiency at Visible and Infrared = 0.5.
Microwave system is based on 300-meter diameter Arecibo-type
telescopes. Optical systems are based on perfect 10-meter diameter
telescopes as modelled in Table 2. The Carrier-To-Noise Ratios (CNRs)
are normalized to a 1 Hz bandwidth. The EIRP of a solar-type star =
3.9 X 10^26 W, and has an apparent magnitude equal to 2.2.
optical EIRPs are much too low. Also, the graph is plotted in terms
of EIRP, and therefore exaggerates the efficacy of the microwave
approach for an electronic receiver (instead of an observer), because
it does not show the typical 10 K noise floor of a high-quality
microwave receiver, only the radio brightness of a quiet G-type star.
The latter is about 54 dB beneath the 10 K systems noise floor, as
shown in Figure 4, and could only be detected after considerable signal
integration. At 1.5 GHz, it is generally the Cosmic Background, i.e.,
the 2.73 K aftermath of the theoretical Big Bang, and the electronic
noise in the microwave front-end that limits signal detectability, not
Planckian radio noise from the star.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF
THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
Volume 3, Number 6C - January 1992
###########################
TABLE OF CONTENTS
###########################
* ASA Membership and Article Submission Information
* The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in
the Optical Spectrum, Part C - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
###########################
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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Optical SETI debate.
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* Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley Copyright (c) 1992 *
* Consultant *
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Version: 1.00
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THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6C
Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)
IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART C
Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach
by
Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS
545 Northview Drive
Columbus, Ohio 43209
United States
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 29
LASERS
Table 3 gives a list of many of the more important laser types
presently known. [79] As previously mentioned, the CO2 wavelength of
10,600 nm has been identified as an "optical magic wavelength".
[46-47,51-53,57] However, there are many laser wavelengths in the
visible and infrared spectrums that might be suitable for ETI trans-
mitters and local-oscillators. We should not discount the possibility
that ETIs may use efficient frequency-doubled lasers, so we might
consider exploring the visible spectrum for near-infrared lasers at
half the wavelengths quoted below. For example, the 532 nm wavelength
corresponding to the frequency-doubled Nd:YAG 1,064 nm transition may
be a suitable wavelength; one that is presently favored for terrene
optical communications.
=====================================================================
| Table 3 Important laser types and wavelengths |
|=====================================================================|
| Type | Wavelength (nm) |
|----------------------------------|----------------------------------|
| Free-Electron | Ultra-violet to far-infrared* |
| Krypton-Fluoride Excimer | 249 |
| Xenon-Chloride Excimer | 308 |
| Nitrogen Gas (N2) | 337 |
| Organic Dye (in solution) | 300-1,000 (tunable)** |
| Krypton Ion | 335-800 |
| Helium-Cadmium | 422.0 |
| Argon Ion | 450-530 (main lines 488 & 514.5) |
| Helium Neon | 543, 632.8, 1,150 |
| Semiconductor (GaInP) | 670-680 |
| Ruby | 694 |
| Semiconductor (GaAlAs) | 750-900 |
| Neodymium YAG | 1,064 |
| Semiconductor (InGaAsP) | 1,300-1,600 |
| Hydrogen-Fluoride Chemical | 2,600-3,000 |
| Semiconductor (Pb-salt) | 3,300-27,000 (tunable)** |
| Deuterium Fluoride | 3,600-4,000 |
| Carbon Monoxide | 5,000-6,500 |
| Carbon Dioxide (CO2) | 9,000-11,400 (main line 10,600) |
=====================================================================
* Extremely high peak powers available within the decade (> 100 GW).
** Suitable for wide-tunability receiver local-oscillators.
Carbon Dioxide and Semiconductor lasers are very efficient. In
addition to the types listed above, there are a variety of chemical
lasers, including: Iodine, Hydrogen Bromide, Xenon Hexafluoride,
Uranium Hexafluoride, and Sulphur Hexafluoride. These chemical lasers
are efficient and very powerful.
Lasers like the Helium-Cadmium and Helium-Neon can be discounted
because of their very poor efficiency and low power, even though their
temporal coherence is excellent. Similarly, the original Ruby laser is
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 30
=====================================================================
| Table 4 The most intense Fraunhofer lines from the Sun{1} |
|=====================================================================|
| Wavelength, nm Bandwidth, nm Bandwidth, GHz Element |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 410.1748 0.3133 558.7 H_delta |
| 413.2067 0.0400 71.0 Fe I{2} |
| 414.3878 0.0466 81.4 Fe I |
| 416.7277 0.0200 34.5 Mg I |
| 420.2040 0.0326 55.4 Fe I |
| 422.6740 0.1476 247.9 Ca I |
| 423.5949 0.0385 64.4 Fe I{2} |
| 425.0130 0.0342 56.8 Fe I{2} |
| 425.0797 0.0400 66.4 Fe I{2} |
| 425.4346 0.0393 65.1 Cr I{2} |
| 426.0486 0.0595 98.3 Fe I |
| 427.1774 0.0756 124.3 Fe I |
| 432.5775 0.0793 127.1 Fe I{2} |
| 434.0475 0.2855 454.6 H_gamma |
| 438.3557 0.1008 157.4 Fe I |
| 440.4761 0.0898 138.9 Fe I |
| 441.5135 0.0417 64.2 Fe I{2} |
| 452.8627 0.0275 40.2 Fe I{2} |
| 455.4036 0.0159 23.0 Ba II |
| 470.3003 0.0326 44.2 Mg I |
| 486.1342 0.3680 467.2 H_beta |
| 489.1502 0.0312 39.1 Fe I |
| 492.0514 0.0471 58.4 Fe I{2} |
| 495.7613 0.0696 85.0 Fe I{2} |
| 516.7327 0.0935 105.1 Mg I{2} |
| 517.2698 0.1259 141.2 Mg I |
| 518.3619 0.1584 176.9 Mg I |
| 525.0216 0.0062 6.7 Fe I{3} |
| 526.9550 0.0478 51.6 Fe I{2} |
| 532.8051 0.0375 39.6 Fe I |
| 552.8418 0.0293 28.8 Mg I |
| 588.9973 0.0752 65.0 Na I(D2){2} |
| 589.5940 0.0564 48.7 Na I(D1) |
| 610.2727 0.0135 10.9 Ca I |
| 612.2226 0.0222 17.8 Ca I |
| 616.2180 0.0222 17.5 Ca I |
| 630.2499 0.0083 6.3 Fe I{3} |
| 656.2808 _____________ 0.4020 ________ 280.0 ________ H_alpha |
| 849.8062 0.1470 61.1 Ca II |
| 854.2144 0.3670 150.9 Ca II |
| 866.2170 0.2600 104.0 Ca II |
=====================================================================
Table reproduced from "Astrophysical Formulae", edited by K.R. Lang,
Springer-Verlag, 1978, p. 175. [90]
{1} After MOORE, MINNAERT, and HOUTGAST.
{2} Blended line.
{3} Magnetic sensitive line.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 31
inefficient and low power. Probably, one of the more important
considerations for an ETI transmitting laser is that it should be
capable of being deployed in space, be able to produce extremely high
C.W. or pulse powers, and be nuclear or stellar (solar) pumped.
Organic dye lasers are suitable for local-oscillators, with their
wide tunability and narrow linewidth (< 5 kHz). Lead-salt semi-
conductor lasers are suitable for infrared local-oscillators.
FRAUNHOFER LINES
Table 4 is a list of the most intense Fraunhofer lines from the Sun
and their effective bandwidths. The H_alpha Hydrogen line upon which
the visible Optical SETI model is based, has a wavelength of
656.2808 nm (frequency = 4.57 X 10^14 Hz), and an effective linewidth
or bandwidth of 0.402 nm (280 GHz). [88-90] The actual FWHM linewidth
is somewhat less that 280 GHz.
THE OPTICAL SEARCH
An "All Sky Survey" of the type planned for the Microwave Observing
Project (MOP), which pixelizes the entire celestial sphere, does not
make sense in the optical regime. [40-45] The 10^16 beams (Equ. 20)
for a diffraction limited 10-meter diameter visible-wavelength
telescope are mainly wasted looking out into empty (local) space. For
a celestial sphere one thousand light years in radius, containing one
million solar-type stars, the average angular separation between stars
is 0.23 degrees (see Figure 10). A 34-meter diameter radio telescope at
1.5 GHz has a typical field-of-view (FOV) of 0.41 X 0.41 degrees, and
thus, on average, its FOV encompasses several stars. It is efficient
when conducting a radio "All Sky Survey" to continuously scan the
celestial sphere in consecutive or adjacent strips or sectors.
The 10-meter diameter Professional 656 nm Optical SETI Telescope
would have a typical FOV = 0.33 X 0.33 degrees and a 128 X 128
photodetector array FOV = 2.1" X 2.1". Since the average separation
between stars is 0.23 degrees, the average number of stars in the
optical array FOV is 6.4 X 10^-6. Thus, the narrow diffraction-limited
field-of-view means that for most of the time the optical detector(s)
would be viewing empty space. A similar situation prevails for the
smaller, single detector amateur optical telescopes to be discussed
later. The argument has been advanced by Dr. Bernard Oliver, in
correspondence with the author and at the author's SETI Institute talk,
that because an "All Sky Survey" would be out of the question at
optical frequencies, this implies that ETIs would not use these
frequencies.
The author's response to this is that there is nothing "holy" about
the "All Sky Survey" approach. What we may wish to do is to have a
Targeted Search of tens of thousands of stars, instead of a mere eight
hundred as presently planned for MOP (see Page 11). However, each time
we wish to scan another star in the frequency domain, we will move the
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 32
telescope to an adjacent sector of the sky that contains the desired
object.
While there is the possibility that ETI transmitters exist in the
interstellar voids, far from their home stars, the author thinks that
this scenario is unlikely (except perhaps within our own solar system,
i.e., von Neumann-type probes), if for no other reason than it would
place the energy-intensive transmitters far from a "cheap" and
plentiful energy source.
One of the many objections made to the optical approach to SETI is
that there are just too many frequencies to search. As Figure 5
illustrates, under the author's rationale, this is more a perception
than a reality because of the wider signal bandwidths assumed.
21-cm Water-Hole Channel or Bin
| |
------------------------------------------------------------------
| * # |
| * MICROWAVE HAYSTACK # |
| * # |
------------------------------------------------------------------
| | --> <-- |
1 GHz 10 GHz 1 Hz 100 GHz
Number of 1 Hz frequency channels or bins between
1 GHz and 10 GHz = 9 Billion.
10,600 nm 656 nm
| |
------------------------------------------------------------------
| * # * |
| * OPTICAL HAYSTACK # * |
| * # * |
------------------------------------------------------------------
| | --> <-- |
10 THz 100 THz 100 kHz 1,000 THz
Number of 100 kHz frequency channels or bins between
20 THz and 920 THz = 9 Billion.
Figure 5 -
The Microwave and Optical Cosmic Haystack frequency domains. This
demonstrates that the number of frequencies to search in the microwave
and optical haystacks are of similar magnitude.
Wide bandwidth means that laser linewidths, Doppler shifts, and
chirps (drifts) are less significant, and the number of frequencies to
search in the optical spectrum is more manageable. Just because
visible frequencies are over five orders of magnitude higher than
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 33
microwave frequencies does not mean that there are over 10^5 more
frequencies to search in the optical frequency domain. The modulation
bandwidth of proposed optical ETI signals as a percentage of the
carrier frequency may be as large or larger than the percentage
modulation bandwidth of proposed microwave ETI signals. In fact,
assuming minimum bin bandwidths of 100 kHz, the number of frequencies
to search in the entire optical spectrum may not be much greater than
the number of 1 Hz frequencies between 1 and 10 GHz, i.e., nine
billion! This is illustrated diagrammatically in Figure 5. This
clearly has important ramifications in terms of the search time.
The reader should note that for a drifting carrier signal, i.e.,
one subjected to Doppler Chirp, the optimum detection bandwidth is
equal to the square root of the frequency drift rate. [5,8] This
assumes that the local-oscillator laser is not de-chirped. Thus, the
optimum bandwidth for a monochromatic 1.5 GHz signal drifting at a
local Doppler Chirp rate of 0.17 Hz/s (see Table 2, Line 30, Page 22)
is about 0.4 Hz, while for a monochromatic 656 nm signal drifting at
51 kHz/s, the optimum bandwidth is 226 Hz. If the bin bandwidth is
excessive, too much system noise is detected, and the CNR is degraded.
On the other hand, if the bin bandwidth is too small, the response time
of the filter (approximately 1/Bif) is insufficient to respond to all
the energy in the signal as it sweeps by, again leading to a reduction
in CNR and detectability.
It is an interesting exercise to estimate the time that would be
required at visible wavelengths for both an All Sky Survey and a
Targeted Search. We will assume the use of a ten-meter diameter
receiving telescope, a 128 X 128 photodetector array (16,384 pixels),
and initially, a single 10 GHz bandwidth Multi-Channel Spectrum
Analyzer (MCSA) that sequentially samples all 16,384 photodetectors.
These MCSAs could have final bin bandwidths of about 100 kHz. At this
time, 10 GHz MCSAs do not exist, and the state-of-the-art for single-
chip devices employed in Microwave SETI is about 10 MHz. However, it
is only a question of time before these more powerful 10 GHz devices
are developed.
For the purposes of this brief analysis we shall not concern
ourselves with the huge amount of data storage that must be provided,
or the data reduction time overhead required. Equ. 20 (Page 81) shows
that the number of received beams for such a telescope is about 10^16.
Since the minimum sampling time per pixel for a 10 GHz bandwidth is
100 ps, the time to sample the entire array of 16,384 instantaneous
beams is 1.64 microseconds. The number of array sets of beams in the
celestial sphere consisting of 10^16 beams is 6.1 X 10^11. Thus, the
time just to "look" at one 10 GHz wide band of the visible spectrum,
assuming that a continuous scan of the sky could be made with no dead
time or overlap, is 10^6 s, i.e., 11.6 days! This is a substantial
amount of time for a single band just 10 GHz wide.
Since there are 42,857 bands of 10 GHz bandwidth between 350 nm and
700 nm, the time required to search the entire sky and all visible
frequencies is, at a minimum, 1,360 years! Even if we had 128
parallel MCSAs (don't even consider having 16,384 - 10 GHz MCSAs!), the
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 34
time to search even a 10 GHz band is long, notwithstanding the "slight"
data storage problem. Clearly, we can forget about this form of
optical All Sky Survey, since it is a grossly inefficient way of
scanning or pixelizing the sky. Almost all the data bins will be empty
bins, having been derived from beams pointing to empty (near) space.
The situation for an Optical All Sky Survey is actually much worse than
just implied, due to the additional time that each pixel must be
sampled to ensure a high probability of detecting the fewer, but more
energetic optical photons - more about this in a moment.
On the other hand, if we only consider a Targeted Search, the time
required is much shorter and allows for the search to be done across
the entire optical spectrum, not just at selected laser frequencies or
Fraunhofer lines. As we have just seen, if the photon arrival rate is
sufficiently high, the time with a single 10 GHz MCSA for a single scan
of the entire array is 1.64 microseconds. To scan for one star over
the entire 350 nm to 700 nm band would take 0.070 seconds (assuming
suitable L.O. lasers). This is a trivial amount of time, and the amount
of data that has to be collected and stored is relatively insignificant.
Indeed, it is the time to do the FFTs and move the telescope to a new
position that will be the most significant overheads here.
The above times are highly optimistic because the basic flux
sensitivity of any kind of receiver, be it microwave or optical, depends
on the sampling or integration time. Hence, before we can estimate the
realistic length of time for a given search, we must decide what are the
minimum detectable flux levels that we wish to detect. This, in turn,
will determine the minimum sampling time for each pixel. Usually, SETI
minimum detectable flux estimates are based on integrating a very weak
signal for a period of time, and not for providing sufficient SNR to
allow actual demodulation. We must also decide if we want to model a
system based on short pulses or on continuous wave (C.W.) signals.
Of course, it is extremely unlikely that the signal flux would be
sufficiently high to allow for a high probability of detecting the
photons in a sampling bandwidth of 10 GHz. In reality, our minimum
MCSA bin bandwidths would be about 100 kHz, and the sampling
(integration) time is at least a factor of 10^5 longer. For the
purposes of this further analysis, we shall assume a C.W. signal and a
100 kHz minimum bin bandwidth, so that the pixel sampling time is now
10 us. For our ten-meter diameter 656 nm symmetrical heterodyning
telescope system, we can estimate the minimum detectable signal flux
density by calculating the flux required to reduce the CNR to 0 dB.
We have already shown (Table 2, Line 12, Page 22), that a flux
intensity of 2.04 X 10-^17 W/m^2 will produce a CNR = 34 dB re 1 Hz.
Therefore, in a 100 kHz bandwidth, the CNR will be -16 dB. To increase
the CNR to 0 dB means that the intensity must be increased by 16 dB to
8.12 X 10^-16 W/m^2. Thus, the minimum detectable signal flux for
this bandwidth and sampling rate is 8.1 X 10^-16 W/m^2. This is
equivalent to saying that during the 10 microsecond sampling time, if
an ETI signal is present on one pixel, we would have a reasonable
probability of detecting one photon (Equ. 36). This signal flux would
be produced by a ten meter diameter transmitter at a range of ten light
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 35
years, with a power of 16 dB re 1 kW, i.e., 40 kW. This is a trivial
amount of power for an ETI.
On the basis that the author thinks that ETI transmitter powers
will be in excess of 100 MW and perhaps even substantially in excess of
1 GW, we could decide to lower the detection sensitivity and go for a
faster sampling rate, thus speeding up the search. For the purposes of
this analysis we will stick to the 100 kHz pixel sampling rate. As
previously stated, we will assume that we are doing our single star
signal processing in real time, with 100 kHz minimum bin bandwidths.
This means that the entire array would take 0.164 s to scan. If we
assume no scan dead time, then to scan the entire visible band between
350 nm and 700 nm at a sensitivity level of about -150 dBW/m^2
(10^-15 W/m^2), would take about two hours (Equ. 21, Page 82). An All
Sky Survey of this type would take at least 136 million years! If a
survey of this type could have been started when the dinosaurs roamed
Earth, we would be just about reaching the end of the first scan!
(Don't anyone accuse the author of lacking a sense of humor.)
On the other hand, for a sensitivity of -150 dBW/m^2, a Targeted
Search scan of a single star over the 280 GHz effective bandwidth of
the 656 nm Fraunhofer line (Table 4, Page 30) with a 10 GHz MCSA, with
on-line data storage, and a 10 microsecond pixel sampling time, would
take 4.6 seconds. This is a very reasonable time, so that a slower
scan at selected laser and Fraunhofer lines could be performed to
reduce the minimum detectable flux levels.
PROFESSIONAL CO2 SETI
Just as this paper was being completed, the author received a copy
of Albert Betz's (University of California, Space Sciences Laboratory,
Berkeley, CA 94720) latest paper on Optical CO2 SETI. [57] For the
sake of completeness, because there is currently so little Optical SETI
literature available, and because Betz's paper is a very up-to-date
account of the only observational Optical SETI work presently being
done in the United States, a short description is now given. The work
of Townes and Betz is supported by a NASA grant NAGW-681. As mentioned
on Page 5, this low-profile SETI work is being done on Mount Wilson, and
is piggy-backed onto a much larger NASA program to investigate astro-
physical phenomena at the galactic center, e.g., a possible black hole.
To start with, here now is a complete quote of the abstract from
Dr. Betz's paper, which was presented in August of 1991 at the Santa
Cruz, California USA-USSR SETI Meeting:
"In an effort complementary to NASA's search for microwave signals
from an extraterrestrial intelligence, we are searching for possible
laser signals of a similar origin. We are surveying approximately 300
nearby stars in a multi-year effort to detect narrowband laser signals
in the 10 um wavelength region. For this directed search, we are using
an available 1.7 m telescope and a heterodyne receiver tuned to
discrete CO2 laser frequencies between 26-30 THz. The bandwidth of the
heterodyne allows us to analyze a Doppler velocity range up to
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 36
+/-60 km/s around selected laser lines, and thus accommodate the
velocity dispersions of hypothesized laser sources orbiting nearby
stars. The resolution of the spectrometer is currently 2.4 MHz
(24 m/s), with 10^3 spectral channels available. Although this
resolution is somewhat coarse, any indication of a signal could be
subsequently analyzed at much higher resolution with the type of signal
processor (MCSA) now being developed for the microwave survey."
Betz uses a slightly different transmission throughput
relationship to that employed by this author (Pages 77-78). For his
parameters: Pt = 1 kW, D = 10 m, R = 10 L.Y. (9.461 X 10^16 m), and
Wl = 10.6 um (see Appendix A for parameter definitions):
Pr = 9.9 X 10^-18 W
This figure for received power is about 2.1 dB greater than given
in Table 2, Line 13 on Page 22 (6.1 X 10^-18 W). The reason for the
slight discrepancy is that Betz uses an approximation by omitting a
PI^2/16 factor (see Equs. 13 and 14 on Pages 77 and 78 for more details).
Earlier it was stated that the minimum beam divergence thought
possible by Townes and others was about one second of arc. However,
this recent paper by Betz indicates a new, more optimistic limitation
of about 0.1 second of arc. This is only a factor of 7.25 greater than
the 0.0138" diffraction limited beamwidth for the visible system (as
shown in Table 2, Line 5 on Page 22, and on Page 73). By assuming that
the nearest stars to be targeted are around 50 parsecs (163 L.Y.) away,
a beam divergence of 0.1 arcsecond is compatible with the expected
zones of life. Because of this increase in beam directivity, Betz gets
an infrared SNR improvement over the 300-meter diameter Arecibo system
of about 3 dB (a factor of 2). Figure 4 on Page 28 shows that the
microwave system has a CNR of 20 dB, while the infrared system has a
CNR of 22 dB; a 2 dB difference in favor of the infrared system. Thus,
taking into account the slightly different assumptions made in this
analysis, i.e., the transmission relationship, the microwave front-end
temperature and quantum efficiency, the theoretical results for the CO2
system in this paper are in very close agreement with that of Betz's
paper.
The Townes and Betz CO2 telescope is computer driven, with the
ability to point blind to approximately one arcsecond, both during the
day and night. As indicated on Page 23, CO2 SETI is just as effective
during the day as at night, since, whatever the limitations of the sky
background, it is essentially constant over the 24 hour day.
The reader should note that the 128 X 128 pixel array specified for
the Professional Visible SETI system has a field of view of about
2.1 X 2.1 arcsec (Figure 10, Page 81), and thus is semi-compatible with
the pointing accuracy of Betz's system. Note that a medium size
visible wavelength telescope with a single incoherent photodetector
system, may have to be steered and pointed during daylight hours with
point blind accuracy better than 1 arcsec. If the pixel size and FOV
are increased to accommodate steering inaccuracies and atmospheric
turbulence, the daylight background would increase and degrade the SNR.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 37
INCOHERENT OPTICAL SETI AT 10,600 nm
In a later section, we will describe an incoherent Optical SETI
receiver for visible and near-infrared wavelengths, with Amateur
Optical SETI application. For the sake of completeness, Figure 6 has
been included here to demonstrate the relatively poor response of a
small incoherent (photon-counting) CO2 receiving system. This should
be compared to Figure 8 (Page 44), given for the case of incoherent
Optical SETI at visible wavelengths. Identical signal flux levels and
telescope apertures have been employed in both graphs. These graphs
have been located at the top of their respective pages to allow the
pages to be flicked back and forth for easier comparison.
In the incoherent CO2 system, where the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR)
is quantum noise limited, the SNR it is greater than in the visible
spectrum because "hf" is smaller. However, where the SNR is background
noise limited, the SNR is severely degraded. For a high signal
intensity of 10^-14 W/m^2, as produced by a transmitter at a distance
of ten light years with an EIRP of about 10^21 W, the SNR for a 30 cm-
diameter CO2 receiving telescope begins to degrade for optical band-
widths greater than about 1 MHz.
The infrared telescope's photodetector must be subject to
considerable cooling, e.g., using liquid nitrogen, to avoid high dark-
current, and it must be provided with a cold-shield to restrict its
field-of-view (FOV) to background thermal radiation. Note that the
performance of an amateur CO2 system could well be much worse than
shown in Figure 6, because CO2 transmitter gains and EIRPs are likely
to be much less than available at visible wavelengths. Unfortunately,
high-Q optical filters centered on the CO2 wavelength are not available
with wide tuning characteristics, although a small degree of tuning may
be obtainable by tilting the filters. Fixed optical filters with
100 GHz bandwidths at 10,600 nm are available for several hundred
dollars. The cost of a extremely high-Q 10 GHz (0.035 percent
bandwidth) interference filter may run into several thousand dollars.
Even then, the thermal background detected is excessive, and the filter
itself must be cooled.
As has been pointed out repeatedly and demonstrated by Equ. 32
(Page 88), the optical heterodyne receiver has the great advantage over
its direct detection counterpart (Equ. 31), in that the effective
optical bandwidth through which background radiation is received is
determined by the small electrical I.F. bandwidth. Also, because of
the excessive dark-current characteristics of 10,600 nm photodetectors,
there is considerable merit in using a local-oscillator laser to swamp
out these noise sources, though coherent detection would not
necessarily obviate the necessity to employ some cryogenic cooling.
Thus, there is much truth in the observation that as far as ground-
based CO2 SETI receivers are concerned, only coherent receivers are
practical, such as the interferometer system presently being employed
by Townes and Betz on Mount Wilson, and described on the previous two
pages. [57]
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 38
Postdetection Normalized SNR, dB re 1 Hz
|
|
80 | Ir = 10^-10 W/m^2 EIRP = 1.1 X 10^25 W
|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
| *
60 | Ir = 10^-12 W/m^2 EIRP = 1.1 X 10^23 W *
|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
| *
40 | Ir = 10^-14 W/m^2 EIRP = 1.1 X 10^21 W
|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
| * *
20 | Ir = 10^-16 W/m^2 * *
|* * * * * * * * * * * *
| * *
0 |.Ir = 10^-18 W/m^2.........*...................*..............
|* * * * * * * *
| * * *
-20 | Ir = 10^-20 W/m^2 * * *
|* * *
| * * *
-40 | * * *
| * * *
| * * *
-60 | * * *
| * * *
| * *
-80 | Day & Night * *
| * *
| * *
-100 --------------------------------------------------------------
10^0 10^2 10^4 10^6 10^8 10^10 ^ 10^12
|
Optical Bandwidth, Hz |
100 GHz (37.5 nm)
Figure 6 -
Signal-to-noise ratio versus optical bandwidth for (perfect) photon-
counting CO2 receivers. Range = 10 light years, wavelength = 10,600 nm,
diameter = 30 cm, antenna efficiency = 0.7, spectrometer efficiency =
0.5, quantum efficiency = 0.5. Dark current is assumed to be
negligible, though in practice it will impact the above sensitivity
curves at lower flux levels, even more than the sky background.
Needless to say, the construction cost of a heterodyning CO2 SETI
telescope/receiver is likely to be excessive for the amateur
enthusiast. For this reason, CO2 SETI is not being proposed for the
amateur. This activity is best left to NASA and the professional
observer.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 39
ADAPTIVE TELESCOPE TECHNOLOGY
Perhaps one of the most exciting developments in modern optical
astronomy is the subject of adaptive telescope technology. The author
believes that this not only has profound implications for conventional
optical astronomy but also for Optical SETI. In particular, for what
we call Symbiotic Optical SETI. What follows is a description of the
technique obtained from the tutorial introduction to reference 69.
"Earth-based telescopic adaptive-optics systems need a reference
(guide) star which is near objects of interest and bright enough to
provide information on the wavefront distortion. But natural guide
stars for a usable portion of the visible spectrum are few and far
between, allowing glimpses of just 0.003 percent of the night sky.
Rather than cursing the darkness, astronomers and engineers are
lighting some celestial candles of their own.
To create the artificial guide stars, a laser is beamed into the
sky, which answers back inflamed. The laser energy creates Rayleigh
backscattering in the stratosphere (10 - 40 km up) and resonance-
fluorescence backscattering in the mesospheric sodium layer
(80 - 100 km). No radically new technology is required for the lasers,
although the breadth of capabilities is large for a single laser. For
zenith viewing of a 20-cm atmospheric patch using the Rayleigh
approach, the laser must put out 82 watts; for the sodium-
backscattering approach the required exciting power is 14 watts. At
the sodium layer, which results from meteor ablation, the beam must be
0.5 meter in diameter, with a pulse rate of 100-200 pps and 100
millijoules per pulse.
The laser guide-star concept was first put into practice by Chester
Gardner and Laird Thompson, who in 1987 created, photographed, and
measured their own glowing beacon, shot like some giant flare above the
Mauna Kea Observatory in Hawaii. [69]
The basic system requirement is that the distortion of the guide
star must be measured and the adaptive mirror adjusted in the time it
takes for a star to twinkle, or, depending on how you look at it, the
time between twinkles. This window of visibility known as twinkle time
(also called scintillation coherence time) is open for a scant
10 milliseconds."
The requirements to produce a diffraction limited image over the
entire focal image plane are rigorous. It could be that the criteria
for Optical SETI are rather less demanding. The requirement here is
for imaging the ETI signal onto a two-dimensional photodetector array,
where the primary purpose (neglecting Planckian suppression needs) of
the array is to detect ETI photons, not to produce a super high-quality
extended image. As described on Pages 10 and 83, it is shown how
efficient detection of an ETI signal might be obtained with a simple
passive technique, if ETIs cooperate by transmitting a signal
accompanied by a pilot-tone beacon. Such a technique automatically
makes any telescope adaptive, without the need for deformable mirrors
and laser guide stars.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 40
THE COLUMBUS TELESCOPE PROJECT
As this paper was nearing completion, the author learned that a
decision had been made to terminate Ohio State University's
participation in The Columbus Project, the construction of a twin
8-meter diameter interferometric telescope to be built on Mount Graham
in southeastern Arizona. The instrument, which is supposed to see
"first light" in 1994, will have the light gathering power of a single
11.3-meter (448-inch) mirror and the resolving power of a 22-meter
(866-inch) telescope.
The project was a joint venture between OSU, the University of
Arizona, and Italy's Arcetri Astrophysical Observatory. The reason
given for OSU's pulling out of the project was a lack of privately
donated funds. Within these pages, this author has suggested the
possibility of a future symbiotic relationship between Professional
Optical Astronomy and Professional Optical SETI. During the early part
of this study, an idea was formulated that plans for The Columbus
Telescope might be changed, so that both scientific activities could be
undertaken at that site; Professional Optical Astronomy being done at
night, and Professional Coherent Optical SETI mainly during the day.
On Columbus Day, October 12, the Microwave Observing Project will
commence its search of the sky. As we in Columbus, Ohio, approach the
quincentennial of Columbus' discovery of the Americas, what more
fitting way could there be to celebrate the first encounter with the
New World than if OSU's participation in The Columbus Project was
resumed and the telescope's purpose modified to include the search for
extraterrestrial intelligence. The New World would be looking for
other, perhaps older worlds, with more mature technical civilizations.
OSU is already home to the "Big Ear" Radio Observatory, which under
the guidance of Professor John D. Kraus (Director) and Dr. Robert Dixon
(Assistant Director), has been undertaking conventional microwave
SETI for many years. On the same site in Delaware (a little north of
Columbus), and close to "Big Ear", is the Perkins Optical Observatory.
At the moment, the author is working on ideas to upgrade the Perkins
Observatory for Semi-Professional Incoherent Optical SETI. This
observatory presently contains a 81-cm (32-inch) Cassegrain.
OPTICAL SETI RATIONALE
SETI would not seem so mysterious to the average person if it was
recognized that this is yet another communications problem, albeit
complicated by the fact that we do not know where or when to look, the
transmission frequency, the bandwidth, or the modulation format. In
many ways it is just another aspect to our manned and unmanned space
program, but one that has received relatively little funding. It took
many years before SETI was recognized as a legitimate science and not
pseudoscience. The technology described here for Optical SETI is more
than just a means of contacting emerging technical civilizations. If
intelligent life is not uncommon in the galaxy, and if electromagnetic
waves are still the primary means of interstellar communications, the
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 41
ability of optical relays to form a galactic network might obviate the
necessity to use low-loss microwaves or the far-infrared in order to
propagate across the entire galaxy in one go. After all, it is very
difficult to have a snappy conversation when communicating over one
hundred thousand light years!
Earlier, we showed that our "perfect" 10-meter diameter symmetrical
656 nm heterodyning system was capable of yielding over a range of
10 light years, a CNR of about 34 dB re 1 kW re 1 Hz, for a diffraction
limited EIRP of 2.3 X 10^18 W (see Table 2 and Figure 4). Since a
solar-type star has an EIRP of 3.9 X 10^26 W, we pose the question:
What is the communication capability of such a communications link when
the mean EIRP of a large transmitter array is 2.5 times that of the
star, i.e., when the mean EIRP is about 10^27 W? This condition
corresponds to the transmitter appearing as a 1st magnitude object; a
situation which would produce a noticeable (2.5 times) brightening of
the ETI's star. Since the ratio of EIRPs {10^27/(2.3 X 10^18)} is
4.4 X 10^8, the CNR will be improved by 86 dB, resulting in a CNR of
about 120 dB re 1 Hz, and a photon detection rate of about 10^12 s^-1
(Equ. 36). If the bandwidth is increased to 10 GHz, the CNR falls to
about 20 dB. Thus, this just naked-eye noticeable transmitter would be
just about capable of sending a 10 Gbit/s data stream across 10 light
years with low bit-error-rate {BER} (Equ. 37). This would allow a
hypothetical Encyclopedia Galactica to be uploaded or downloaded rather
efficiently!
This might give new meaning to Arthur C. Clarke's "Extra-
Terrestrial Relays", which in the October, 1945 issue of WIRELESS WORLD
described the basic idea for the present terrene geostationary (the
Clarke Belt) satellite system. [67] Clarke had originally given his
article the title "The Future of World Communications". Perhaps this
paper should be titled "The Future of Interstellar Communications"?
In many ways, Arthur C. Clarke and "Extra-Terrestrial Relays" has
done more to shape what we now call the "Global Village" than any
other single factor on our planet. Indeed, the spreading of the ideas
of democracy, and freedom, and the breakup of the Soviet Empire have
more to do with former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev, Russian
President Boris Yeltsin, and author Clarke than any other factor. The
latter is perhaps the unsung hero here. The failure of the August, 1991
Soviet Coup was facilitated by the ease with which it is now possible
to communicate. Those readers who own TVROs (TeleVision Receive Only)
satellite receivers will especially appreciate the power of this
technology. We can be sure that the reception, demodulation, and
decoding of the first ETI signal - be it microwave, millimeter-wave, or
optical - will have an immense effect upon our civilization. Just the
act of detecting a carrier signal will forever change our view of the
Universe and humanity.
The following section deals with the amateur approach to Optical
SETI, showing how an amateur observatory can be constructed. This is
based on the more controversial assumption that optical ETI signals may
be present in the visible spectrum, and of sufficient intensity, to
yield detectable signals with relatively small receiving telescopes.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Article 16812 of sci.astro:
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF
THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
Volume 3, Number 6D - January 1992
###########################
TABLE OF CONTENTS
###########################
* ASA Membership and Article Submission Information
* The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in
the Optical Spectrum, Part D - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
###########################
ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION
The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic
(EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
ASA Officers and Council -
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Board of Advisors - Bill Bagnuolo, Jim Bitsko, Eric Greene
Council - Jim Bitsko, Bill Black, Mike Burkhead, Bill Crane,
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When sending your article submissions, please be certain to include
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Copying or reprinting of the EJASA, in part or in whole, is encouraged,
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those of the ASA. This Journal is Copyright (c) 1992 by the
Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Inc.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION
This document may be freely copied to other electronic bulletin
boards, but only in an unmodified form and in its entirety, with the
following copyright notice attached. No license is given to reproduce
this document in electronic or hardcopy form for profit. However, the
media may reproduce short extracts for the purposes of furthering the
Optical SETI debate.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley Copyright (c) 1992 *
* Consultant *
* AMIEE, SMIEEE, *
* The Planetary Society, *
* Space Studies Institute, *
* Columbus Astronomical Society, *
* Volunteer, SETI Group, Ohio State. *
* *
* "Where No Photon Has Gone Before & *
* The Impossible Takes A Little Longer" *
* __________ *
* FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS / \ *
* 545 Northview Drive --- hf >> kT --- *
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U.K. inquires may be made to the above U.S. address or:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Version: 1.00
File: EJASAV3.N06
THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6D
Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)
IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART D
Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach
by
Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS
545 Northview Drive
Columbus, Ohio 43209
United States
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 42
AMATEUR OPTICAL SETI
Working on the assumption that highly advanced ETI technology could
appear to late Twentieth Century humanity like "magic", it is imagined
that ETIs will be using much larger transmitting telescopes or arrays
and transmitter powers far greater than 1 kW. [56] In practice, the
signal is likely to be pulsed, and, depending on the duty cycle, even
less detectable by normal integrating detectors, i.e., the unaided
eye, photographic plates, or standard CCDs. Optical SETI is a branch
of science to which the enthusiastic amateur astronomer may be able to
make a useful contribution. In so doing, this may increase public
and scientific interest in all forms of SETI so that this field of
scientific endeavor will at last get the financial support and effort
it richly deserves.
Optional I
Intensifier ----------<---------
-- ------ |
Signal Pr | | | | |
-----------> | | -----> | | -----> ----- PIN Photodetector,
-----------> | | -----> | | -----> / \ APD or Photomultiplier
-----------> | | -----> | | -----> -----
Background | | | | | -----
Pb -- ------ | | |
Narrow-Band --->---| |----->
Optical Bandpass Filter | |
(or Monochromator) Bo -----
Low-Pass Electrical Filter
Be
Figure 7 -
Incoherent (direct) detection optical receiver. The image or photon
intensifier is only required if a zero-gain PIN photodetector is
employed. The narrow-band optical filter (Bo < 0.1 nm) is ideally
a tunable device like a scanning grating monochromator. The photo-
detector current I is proportional to the received signal Pr.
Figure 7 is a basic schematic of an incoherent photon-counting
receiver for an Amateur Optical SETI Observatory. The high cost and
technical difficulties of optical heterodyne detection in the visible
and near-infrared spectrum means that the amateur's receiver will most
likely have to use photon-counting, a little cooling, and a mono-
chromator. Unlike coherent receivers, incoherent receivers do not
have the ability to reject Planckian starlight and daylight background
noise if the signal is weak.
Figure 8 results use slightly more conservative assumptions than
employed to derive Table 2 (Equ. 15, Page 78). It is assumed that the
amateur telescope has a diameter of thirty centimeters (twelve inches),
uses a low-resolution scanning grating monochromator bandwidth of
100 GHz (0.143 nm) at 656 nm, and employs a receiver consisting of a
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 43
single perfect photon-counter. For a received flux density of
10^-12 W/m^2, the SNR is about 39 dB re 1 Hz (Equ. 31, Page 87). In
the region of the graph where the SNR is reduced due to Planckian
starlight, daylight background further reduces the SNR by a few dB.
In the Microwave Cosmic Haystack, the flux densities of interest
lie in the range of 10^-27 to 10^-20 W/m^2. It is suggested that the
corresponding flux levels in the Optical Cosmic Haystack would be in
the range of 10^-20 to 10^-10 W/m^2. As indicated in Figure 8, an
EIRP = 10^23 W at a range of ten light years produces a received signal
intensity Ir = 10^-12 W/m^2, with an apparent visual magnitude of
eleven. This would not be visible to the unaided eye even if it was
not completely outshone by the second magnitude star.
This 39 dB Signal-To-Noise Ratio represents an SNR penalty
compared to the performance of a 10-meter heterodyning array receiving
telescope of about 34 dB. This 34 dB SNR penalty figure should not be
confused with the 34 dB CNR that was established in Table 2 (Page 22)
for a 1 kW transmitter. Starlight and daylight sky backgrounds only
slightly affect the SNR for this range, intensity, and optical
bandwidth. The effect of the 10 to 20 dB Fraunhofer Planckian
suppression factor has not been included in the graph of Figure 8;
allowance for which would improve the night sky performance for weaker
signals and/or larger optical bandwidths.
If a powerful ETI signal is detected, given an adequate SNR, it
might even be possible for an amateur observer to demodulate a signal
of moderate bandwidth, not just detect the presence of an excess
number of photons arriving in a given time! A photodetector bandwidth
of about 1 MHz would probably be desirable, and well as a spectrum
analyzer covering a similar frequency range.
As can be seen from Figure 8, the SNR is degraded by Planckian
starlight at low signal intensities and larger optical bandwidths. In
this regime, if the signal flux drops by 20 dB, the SNR falls by 40 dB
because the receiver is no longer signal quantum noise limited.
Clearly, if ETIs want their signals to be detected by relatively small
incoherent receivers, it pays to use pulses with low duty-cycle in
preference to C.W. signals. High peak EIRPs can override all external
and internal noise sources and thus make their signals as detectable
as possible for a given mean EIRP.
In Table 2 we showed that the 1 kW signal at a range of ten light
years produces a received intensity of 2.04 X 10^-17 W/m^2. If this
was received by a one-meter diameter incoherent adaptive ground-based
telescope, the normalized SNR in a 100 GHz (0.143 nm) optical bandwidth
(not allowing for Planckian dark line continuum suppression) would be
about -42 dB re 1 Hz. In this situation it would indeed help to
operate the transmitter within a Fraunhofer line. The SNR would be
increased to -32 dB re 1 Hz for a 10 dB Fraunhofer line contrast
factor. Either way, the presence of the signal would not be detectable
without considerable integration. However, if the ETI transmitter mean
power was increased to 1 GW, leading to a received intensity of
2.04 X 10^-11 W/m^2, the SNR would increase dramatically to about
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 44
Postdetection Normalized SNR, dB re 1 Hz
|
|
80 |
|
| Ir = 10^-10 W/m^2 EIRP = 1.1 X 10^25 W (6th Magnitude)
60 |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|
| Ir = 10^-12 W/m^2 EIRP = 1.1 X 10^23 W (11th Magnitude)
40 |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
| *
| Ir = 10^-14 W/m^2 EIRP = 1.1 X 10^21 W (16th Magnitude)
20 |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
| *
| Ir = 10^-16 W/m^2 *
0 |.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*....................*.....
| * *
| Ir = 10^-18 W/m^2 *
-20 |* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
| * *
| Ir = 10^-20 W/m^2 * *
-40 |* * * * * * * * *
| * *
| * *
-60 | * *
| * *
| * *
-80 | Night Sky * *
| *
| *
-100 --------------------------------------------------------------
10^0 10^2 10^4 10^6 10^8 10^10 ^ 10^12
|
Optical Bandwidth, Hz |
100 GHz (0.143 nm)
Figure 8 -
Signal-to-noise ratio versus optical bandwidth for (perfect) Photon-
counting 656 nm receivers. Range = 10 light years, diameter = 30 cm,
antenna efficiency = 0.7, spectrometer efficiency = 0.5, quantum
efficiency = 0.5, excess avalanche gain noise factor = 0, dark
current = 0. EIRP of a solar-type star = 3.9 X 10^26 W. A
diffraction limited 10-meter diameter 1 GW transmitter produces an
EIRP = 2.3 X 10^24 W, and appears to be 0.6 percent of the brightness
of a second magnitude solar-type star.
63 dB re 1 Hz; essentially independent of Planckian background. This
signal would stick out like a proverbial sore thumb. In the case of
Professional Heterodyning Optical SETI, we were dealing with stronger
detected signals and a local-oscillator produced shot noise floor.
Because we are dealing here with smaller, incoherent receivers that use
an avalanche photodetector, the precise analysis for the CNR or BER is
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 45
extremely complex when the received signal power is very small and/or
larger post-detection bandwidths are employed. The reader is
cautioned, that the above results may be somewhat optimistic.
Figure 8 forces us to consider whether such easily detectable
signals could have been missed by professional optical astronomers?
Perhaps, because there are so many stars and frequencies to search,
and with the limitations of conventional spectrographic equipment, we
can hope that these signals have been missed or overlooked. Again, if
the signals have low duty-cycle, the mean signal powers detected by
integrating detectors would be considerably less.
Scanning grating monochromators/spectrometers are available with
ten times the resolution previously quoted, i.e., 10 GHz (0.0143 nm)
optical bandwidths. High-Q Fabry-Perot spectrometers with bandwidths
as small as 1 MHz are perhaps less useful here because of their free-
spectral range and multiple response characteristics, requiring
additional broadband filtering. However, the tandem combination of a
scanning grating monochromator and a Fabry-Perot would form a very
powerful optical filtering and spectral analysis system, comparable in
many respects to what could be achieved with a heterodyne system.
For the thirty-centimeter diameter telescope system, ETI signal
detectability will not be substantially degraded for peak signal
strengths higher than about 10^-14 W/m^2 (sixteenth magnitude) if the
spectral resolution < 0.01 nm. If the EIRP was about 10^25 W, the
received signal flux would be at the threshold of unaided eye
visibility of about 10^-10 W/m^2, and yield an SNR of 60 dB re 1 Hz.
This would give an SNR = 30 dB in a 1 kHz post-detection bandwidth, or
a just detectable 0 dB in a 1 MHz bandwidth.
It would appear that as long as we can construct efficient photon-
counting receivers, that the sensitivity of small incoherent receiving
telescopes will not be unduly affected by the relatively large optical
bandwidths of such receivers, though their sensitivity will be degraded
if operated in daylight.
There was no particular reason in choosing the 656.2808 nm
(457.1214 THz) H_alpha line for the purposes of modelling the visible
system. While it could be considered a "magic wavelength", it does
not coincide with a known laser transition. It has an effective band-
width of about 280 GHz, though its half-power bandwidth is somewhat
smaller (Table 4, Page 30). A less expensive way of undertaking
Amateur Optical SETI observations at this single wavelength, instead of
using the more flexible scanning grating monochromator, would be to
employ a standard narrow-band H_alpha solar filter. To further reduce
costs, a photomultiplier could be used in place of the state-of-the-art
cooled avalanche (geiger-mode) photodetector.
It may be possible for amateur astronomy groups to "steal a march"
on NASA as far as the low-sensitivity search for ETI in the visible
and near-infrared spectrum is concerned. For Amateur Optical SETI
to be a sensible pursuit for the astronomical and space enthusiast
requires the belief that ETI technology would appear to emerging
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 46
technical civilizations comparable to ourselves to be like "magic".
The demands placed on assumed ETI technical prowess are even greater
than when considering the practicality of Professional Optical SETI.
The onus would be on ETIs to make their signals easily detectable.
Since peak EIRPs > 10^23 W are thought possible, which lead to peak
intensities at a range of ten light years greater than 10^-12 W/m^2
(eleventh magnitude), the detectability of such signals with amateur
equipment is imaginable. Telescopes with apertures greater than about
one meter diameter are only slightly affected by daylight when observing
nearby stars, indicating that Daylight Professional/Semi-Professional
Optical SETI may be feasible for larger telescopes with incoherent
receivers. It should be realized that even during the day, the sky is
essentially black when viewed with artificial narrow bandwidth eyes!
It is not yet clear whether the 81-cm (32-inch) Perkins Telescope
in Delaware, could be upgraded with a precision-drive system that would
allow for satisfactory image-tracking during the night and day. Image-
tracking difficulties at night might be mitigated by using a photon-
counting array or image intensifier (or microchannel plate) instead of
a single photodetector. There are also some concerns, regarding the
effects on conventional astronomical nighttime observations, of thermal
currents caused by the observatory dome being open during the day.
Because optical bandwidths of these incoherent Amateur Optical SETI
receivers will be much wider than the effective optical bandwidths in
coherent Professional Optical SETI receivers, there is no concern for
anticipating or removing local line-of-sight Doppler chirps (drifts).
These chirps can be as high as 50 kHz/s (Table 2 and Equ. 40). Such
drifts are insignificant for optical bandwidths of the order of 100 GHz
in any reasonable amount of observation (dwell) time. Allowance should
be made for Doppler shifts of the ETI transmitter and Fraunhofer lines
when making a detailed search of specific frequencies, since these
shifts can be comparable to the width of a Fraunhofer line (Table 2
and Equ. 39). For specific laser frequencies not coinciding with
Fraunhofer lines, this requires knowledge of our line-of-sight velocity
relative to the star being observed. However, for transmissions and
observations within Fraunhofer lines, the receiver could simply be
tuned for minimum Planckian starlight noise. As before, it is assumed
that ETIs will remove their local line-of-sight transmitter Doppler
shift (and chirp) with respect to their star.
It should be noted for the record that thermoelectrically-cooled
CCD (Charged Coupled Device) cameras are now available to the amateur
which allow the sixteenth magnitude to be reached in under one minute
of integration, with negligible threshold effects. Even the fastest
photographic film has such low quantum efficiency that only a few
percent of the photons are converted to exposed film grains. The dark
current count for the photon-counter should ideally be kept below about
five hundred counts per second if the SNR of a potential ETI signal is
not to be excessively degraded. It may be reasonable to suggest that
eliciting the help of thousands of enthusiastic amateur optical
astronomers might considerably aid the low-sensitivity Targeted Search
of the entire Northern and Southern Hemisphere skies.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 47
HOW TO BUILD YOUR OWN AMATEUR OPTICAL SETI OBSERVATORY
How easy and cheap will it be for amateur astronomy organizations
to combine the efforts and resources of their members to participate in
this activity? The answer to this is that there is no hard figure. It
depends very much on how sophisticated and sensitive one is prepared to
be. There will always be tradeoffs between sensitivity and cost.
Figure 9 shows a basic Amateur Optical SETI system based on the use of
twenty-centimeter (eight-inch) or larger telescopes. While smaller
telescopes (reflectors or refractors) may be used, the potential
detectability of ETI signals will be degraded.
However much the reader may be excited by the statements made
herein, the reality of the situation is that SETI, be it conducted in
the microwave or optical spectrums, can become a rather monotonous
endeavor. It is an activity well-suited for automation. Hence, the
system to be described makes extensive use of computer-driven hardware.
The same computer can be used to analyze the spectral (optical and
electrical) data obtained with various signal processing algorithms to
see if there is a weak ETI signal hidden within the noise.
Particularly for an optical receiver with a wide tuning range,
i.e., one that uses a grating monochromator, the mass of the
additional equipment required to be attached would be excessive for a
small telescope. Hence, the preferred way to couple the SETI receiver
to the telescope would be via several meters of a single strand of
low-loss multimode optical fiber. The output face of the fiber-optic
umbilical replaces the slit normally found in a monochromator/
spectrograph. This approach is additionally useful if cryogenic
cooling techniques have to be employed at the optical front-end.
The optical fiber is positioned to be centrally placed in the focal
plane and the fiber input arranged by suitable imaging, i.e., SELFOC
lens (GRIN rod), to match to the telescope's diffraction limited spot
size (Airy disk). In practice, if daylight SETI is not attempted, the
optical fiber's aperture and FOV may be increased to accommodate image
wander caused by typical atmospheric turbulence conditions. The
diagram shows a beamsplitter sharing the image with the CCD, though the
CCD might make use of off-axis guiding to avoid light loss, i.e., for
locking onto a guide star. The graded-index lens also serves to
convert the focal ratio of the telescope to one that matches the fiber
for maximum throughput, this operation being equivalent to matching
numerical apertures. Some mode scrambling may be required to ensure
that the output numerical aperture (N.A.) of the fiber is fully
illuminated at all times, whatever the light launching conditions.
This ensures that amplitude fluctuations do not occur in the slitless
monochromator or spectrometer as the image of the star and transmitter
dances around the entrance (input end) of the fiber.
Multimode optical fiber essentially depolarizes light, so that any
polarization analysis equipment must be situated at the input, focal
plane end of the fiber. There will be an inherent throughput loss of
about fifty percent in the monochromator because high resolution
diffraction gratings have a tendency to polarize light.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 48
-------------------- Beamsplitter/Off-Axis Guiding CCD Imaging/
| 8" - 14" |-- _ Tracking Camera------------->--------------
| | |_|->- |
| Schmidt-Cassegrain |-- | Optional Polarizing Optics & Multimode |
-------------------- | Fiber-Optic Umbilical in Focal Plane |
| | | |
| | | ----------------- ----- |
--------- | | Scanning | | APD | |
| Drive |<>- ->>| Grating |->-| or |->- |
--------- | | Monochromator | | PM | | |
| ----------------- ----- | |
| ^ | |
| | ----- |
| | | Amp | |
| | | | |
| | ----- |
| | | |
----------- | | ------------- | |
| | | | | Optional | | |
| VDT | | | | Spectrum |<----| |
| | | | | Analyzer | | |
----------- | | ------------- | |
| | | RS-232/IEEE-488 | | |
------------- <>------------<>---------- Baseband Signal | |
| PC |<-------------<----------------------<------------| |
------------- <----- ------- | |
Optional | CCD Video | Low | | |
FFT Spectrum | Audio <---| Pass |<-------| |
Analyzer Card | | Filter| | |
| ------- | |
| ----------- | |
| | Video |<-------------------- |
| | Monitor |<-------------------------|
| | Or TV | CCD Video |
| ----------- |
| |
------------------------------------------------
Figure 9 -
Basic Amateur Optical SETI or Poor Man's Optical SETI. Only a single
photodetector is used, which can be either an avalanche photodiode
(APD) or a photomultiplier (PM). The optical filter can be a computer-
controlled scanning monochromator or a relatively inexpensive fixed
interference filter. Additional focal-plane optical fibers and photo-
detectors may be employed for maintaining star-lock. An electronic
mixer and filter may be included between the photon-counting receiver
and the display/audio devices to beat down the detected spectrum to
lower frequencies. This electrical local-oscillator would likely be
driven by the PC. The TV (video) monitor can be used both to display
the star field via the CCD imaging/tracking camera and the detected
signal, or these could be displayed on the PC. Later, several
telescopes could be slaved together to increase light gathering power,
sensitivity, and SNR of a would-be ETI signal.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 49
The output of the fiber is expanded and collimated in the usual way.
However, if a single photodetector is employed, as indicated in
Figure 9, some form of cylindrical output lens will be required to
match the aspect ratio of the beam from the diffraction grating(s) to
the photodetector. For this reason, some investigators may prefer to
use a photomultiplier with a large cathode to collect all the photons.
As this document was nearing completion, the author's attention was
drawn to a recent report by Douglas et al [93] on an astronomical
heterodyned spectrometer. The title of the report is somewhat
misleading as this author feels that the word "homodyned" would have
been more applicable. Unless fringes actually move across a photo-
detector at an interference beat rate, a system cannot be said to
really employ heterodyne techniques. However, the report does describe
a high resolution spectrometer using a fiber-optic umbilical, and in
that respect is relevant to the discussion here.
In Figure 9, the purpose of the conventional CCD is just to display
the star field on a television (TV) or personal computer (PC) monitor
and for precision star tracking. In this preferred design, it does
not detect the ETI signal; that job is performed by a relatively fast
single solid-state Avalanche photodetector (APD) or photomultiplier
(PM). APDs have the advantage of high quantum efficiency but the
disadvantage of higher dark current; the converse being the case for
photomultipliers. With state-of-the-art solid-state photodetectors
like the RCA SPCM-100-PQ Single Photon-Counting Module, the cooling to
reduce dark current noise is applied via Peltier (thermoelectric)
coolers, and their mass is relatively insignificant. Though the
imaging CCD can itself be used as the ETI detector, this approach might
compromise detection sensitivity and bandwidth. It would also require
a very high-quality and expensive CCD array. This would be incompa-
tible with the use of the device for star field imaging and fine
guidance because of the narrow-band optical filtering requirements of
the SETI receiver. The input end of the fiber-optic umbilical might
be dithered in the focal plane to aid guidance, and to ensure fine
dynamic-tracking on a star's image. Indeed, four additional optical
fibers with unfiltered photodetectors might surround the ETI-detecting
fiber and be used for this purpose.
Note that the audio monitor in the schematic is for listening to
the hiss of stellar noise and perhaps audibly detecting the presence of
a strong artificial signal. The Planckian background in a 100 GHz
optical bandwidth for a 2nd Magnitude star, produces a photon-count
rate of about 18,000 s^-1, which should be compared to the dark-current
count rate for a high-quality cooled photodetector or photomultiplier
of less than several hundred counts per second. An essential component
will be a variable threshold detector connected to an alarm system.
The TV or PC monitor could also serve to display a noisy raster and the
presence of any coherent signals. It is unlikely though, that an ETI TV
picture will pop up (in any TV standard), considering the deficiencies
in SNR and bandwidth with amateur receivers! However, if high SNR and
bandwidth can be supported by ETI transmitters and terrene professional
receivers over interstellar distances, a sequentially scanned TV [36]
picture would be the most effective bridge between our two cultures.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 50
Even as this is being written, substantial developments are being
made in terrestrial video compression techniques for High Definition
TeleVision (HDTV). Compression ratios as high as 100:1 have been
achieved with only a small reported impairment in perceived video
quality. [87] A 100:1 compression ratio would reduced bandwidth
required by the digitized video signal by a factor of 100. If it was
applied to an ETI interstellar communication system, the effective CNR
could be increased by 20 dB. Of course, we cannot yet comment on
whether ETIs would use such techniques, or what their level of
sophistication is. What we can say, however, is that optical communi-
cations technology, along with video compression techniques, would make
it much easier to transmit high-quality "real-time" video signals over
thousands of light years. What was previously thought possible with
old-fashioned analog TV signals and a 1 GW transmitter over ten light
years now becomes possible over one hundred light years.
ETI signals may be linearly or circularly polarization-modulated,
so that as previously mentioned, some means of analyzing the light would
be required to detect the modulation. This polarization analyzing
system could include a polarizer and a Soleil-Babinet compensator or
quarter/half-wave retardation plates. The latter might be spun to
cause sampling of all polarization states. If the signals are
frequency (or phase) modulated with relatively small deviations, then
only the professional heterodyne receiver will be able to recover the
modulation envelop, whatever the signal strength.
Shopping List -
1. 20-36 cm (8"-14") or larger Schmidt-Cassegrain with periodic error
correction drive and RS-232 or IEEE-488 interface.
Low $2,000 High $12,000
2. CCD imaging and tracking system with RS-232 or IEEE-488 interface.
Low $1,100 High $3,200
3. Polarizaton analyzer.
Low $100 High $2,000
4. Fiber-optic umbilical and connectors (ten meters).
Low $150 High $150
5. Triple grating monochromator (resolution 0.1 to 0.01 nm) with
RS-232 or IEEE-488 interface.
Low $1,000 High $6,500
6. APD photon-counter or photomultiplier front-end.
Low $200 High $3,000
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 51
7. Front-end cooling system.
Low $200 High $1,000
8. PC with fixed (hard) disk and RS-232/IEEE-488 interfaces.
Low $1,000 High $3,000
9. Spectrum analyzer PC card or stand-alone 0-10 MHz spectrum
analyzer.
Low $1,000 High $4,400
10. Video and audio monitors (PC may double-up for this purpose).
Low $200 High $200
11. Miscellaneous
Low $1,000 High $2,000
12. Labor - Free
Total cost: Low $8,000; High $38,000
Thus, the low-end cost is approximately $8,000; less if telescope
and computer system are already available. This is an affordable
activity for many clubs and societies. Some of the equipment above is
optional and may be replaced by less sophisticated devices, e.g., the
automatic scanning monochromator could be replaced by a manual
monochromator or a series of discrete high-Q bandpass filters, such as
a 656 nm H_alpha filter. By omitting the electrical spectrum analyzer
and using a fixed optical bandpass filter, instead of a scanning
monochromator, the cost of a rudimentary system adaptation to an
existing telescope would fall to about $3,000. This figure will be
affordable for some individual enthusiasts.
Instead of a scanning grating monochromator, a scanning grating
spectrometer might be used, where a linear CCD array is employed to
produce an essentially instantaneous display of optical spectra (over a
limited band) on a video display terminal (VDT). However, this does
not allow for the flexibility of employing a single photodetector
optimized for bandwidth and photon-counting sensitivity, and thus this
approach will be more expensive and/or less sensitive. Often, mono-
chromators use triple gratings in order to obtain spectral resolutions
of 0.01 nm or better. As previously mentioned, a set of four optical
fibers surrounding the signal fiber and corresponding low-bandwidth
photodetectors might be used in the system for fine guidance purposes.
Within this account of Amateur Optical SETI is the ambitious
desire to detect the modulation envelop. Hopefully, the ETI signals
will be intensity or polarization-modulated so that the modulation can
be detected by an incoherent receiver. For weak signals, we may only
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 52
be able to detect the presence of an optical carrier or beacon (perhaps
Signpost SETI) and then only after some signal integration. However,
this would be a significant achievement by itself, allowing for more
powerful professional receivers to be built later for detecting the
modulation envelope.
As a spin-off from the MOP, electronic Multi-Channel Spectrum
Analyzers (MCSAs) could be developed for the Amateur Optical SETI
market, eventually making Amateur Optical SETI an even more affordable
activity for optical astronomy clubs and societies. Perhaps ETIs do
not expect their signals to be detected until the targeted civili-
zations make a collective, cooperative, and systematic search of their
home skies!
THE MICROWAVE AND OPTICAL OBSERVING PROJECT (MOOP)
The following is the author's tentative list of objectives for the
optical extension to MOP. It is called the Microwave and Optical
Observing Project, otherwise known by the acronym MOOP.
Project Goal: To continue the search for microwave (and millimeter
wave) signals of extraterrestrial intelligent origin
and to extend the search into the infrared and
visible spectrums.
Project Objectives:
1. To use existing large ground-based optical telescopes to carry
out a Targeted Search of about 800 nearby solar-type stars with
spectral resolution of 1 kHz and sensitivity 10^-16 W/m^2.
For selected laser wavelength bands corresponding to
atmospheric windows in the visible and infrared wavelength
range (350 nm to 12,000 nm).
2. To use existing large ground-based optical telescopes to carry
out a Targeted Search of about one million nearby solar-type
stars with spectral resolution of 100 kHz and sensitivity
10^-10 W/m^2. For selected laser wavelength bands corres-
ponding to atmospheric windows in the visible and infrared
wavelength range (350 nm to 12,000 nm).
3. To use dedicated groups of amateur astronomers and coordinate
their activities to conduct with their ground-based optical
telescopes a low-sensitivity Targeted Search of about 800
nearby solar-type stars with spectral resolution < 1 nm, and
sensitivity 10^-16 W/m^2. For selected wavelength bands in the
visible and near-infrared wavelength range (350 nm to 1,200 nm).
Duration: 2001 - 2010
Cost: $20M for starters. Assumes use of existing large ground-
based professional telescopes and the cost of modifying the
telescopes for adaptive reception and Optical SETI.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 53
==========================================================================
Table 5 Nearest stars favored for MOP's 800 star Targeted Search
==========================================================================
RGO RH DEC Relative Distance Apparent Spectral
Number H M S D M Vel. km/s L.Y. Magnitude Type
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
559A 14 36 11 -60 37.8 -22.2 4.39 -0.01 G2 eye, SB
559B 14 36 11 -60 37.8 -0.0 4.39 1.33 K0 eye
144 3 30 34 -9 37.6 +15.4 10.79 3.73 K2 eye
820A 21 4 40 38 30.0 -64.3 11.01 5.22 K5 eye, AB
820B 21 4 40 38 30.0 -63.5 11.01 6.03 K7 eye
845 21 59 33 -56 59.6 -40.4 11.20 4.69 K4 eye
71 1 41 45 -16 12.0 -16.2 11.77 3.50 G8 eye
380 10 8 19 49 42.5 -26.0 14.68 6.59 K7
166A 4 12 58 -7 43.8 -42.4 15.90 4.43 K1 eye
702A 18 2 56 2 30.6 -7.2 16.72 4.03 K0 eye, UD
702B 18 2 56 2 30.6 -10.0 16.72 6.00 K5 eye, SB
663A 17 12 16 -26 31.8 -0.7 17.25 4.32 K0 eye
663B 17 12 16 -26 31.9 -0.2 17.25 5.10 K1 eye
570A 14 54 32 -21 11.5 +19.5 18.11 5.78 K5 eye
664 17 13 9 -26 28.6 -1.3 18.31 6.34 K5
783A 20 7 55 -36 13.7 -130.3 18.42 5.31 K3 eye
764 19 32 28 69 34.6 +26.7 18.52 4.69 K0 eye
34A 0 46 3 57 33.1 +9.4 18.94 3.44 G0 eye
139 3 17 56 -43 15.6 +86.8 20.25 4.26 G5 eye
66A 1 37 54 -56 26.9 +22.5 21.32 5.07 K0 eye
66B 1 37 54 -56 26.9 +19.4 21.32 5.90 K0 eye
566A 14 49 5 19 18.4 +3.9 22.03 4.54 G8 eye
566B 14 49 5 19 18.4 +5.4 22.03 6.91 K5
892 23 10 52 56 53.5 -17.8 22.18 5.57 K3 eye
33 0 45 45 5 1.4 -12.6 22.62 5.75 K2 eye
105A 2 33 20 6 39.0 +23.4 22.64 5.82 K3 eye, UD
667A 17 15 33 -34 56.2 +1.2 23.29 5.91 K3 eye
667B 17 15 33 -34 56.2 -0.0 23.29 7.20 K5
17 0 17 29 -65 10.1 +8.8 23.44 4.23 G0 eye
68 1 39 47 20 1.6 -33.7 24.32 5.24 K1 eye
178 4 47 7 6 52.5 +24.3 24.70 3.19 F6 eye
673 17 23 16 2 10.2 -28.3 24.70 7.53 K7
666A 17 15 15 -46 35.1 +23.6 24.89 5.48 G8 eye
713 18 21 58 72 42.7 +32.5 25.27 3.58 F7 eye, SB AB
879 22 53 37 -31 49.8 +9.0 25.47 6.49 K5
117 2 50 7 -12 58.3 +18.8 25.67 6.05 K0
23A 11 15 31 31 48.6 -15.5 25.67 3.79 G0 eye, SB AB
423B 11 15 31 31 48.6 -15.9 25.67 4.80 G0 eye, SB
216B 5 42 21 -22 26.2 -10.1 26.50 6.15 K2
216A 5 42 23 -22 27.8 -9.7 26.50 3.60 F6 eye
502 13 9 32 28 7.9 +6.1 27.17 4.26 G0 eye
785 20 12 10 -27 11.0 -54.2 27.17 5.73 K0 eye, SB
506 13 15 47 -18 2.0 -8.5 27.39 4.74 G6 eye
827 21 22 20 -65 35.6 -29.5 28.10 4.22 F6 eye
231 6 11 44 -74 44.2 +34.9 28.35 5.08 G5 eye
75 1 44 6 63 36.4 +1.8 28.59 5.63 K0 eye
==========================================================================
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 54
Table 5 is an extract from the list (provided by the SETI
Institute) of the closest stars that form the group of 800 stars which
are subject to MOP's "Targeted Search". [40-45] Presently, the list
covers stars in the range of 4.39 to 81.5 light years from Earth, but
is subject to review.
UD = White Dwarf 559A = Alpha Centauri A
EB = Eclipsing Binary 144 = Epsilon Eridani
AB = Astrometric Binary 71 = Tau Ceti
SB = Spectral Binary
eye = Visible to the unaided eye under good conditions (apparent
visual magnitude less than 6.0 - about 224 stars).
The Amateur Optical SETI system just described is quite capable of
being upgraded in sensitivity by slaving "n" similar telescopes
together, and combining the photons from the "n" optical fibers through
a single monochromator and photon-counter. In this way, ten telescopes
of 25 cm (10") aperture would have approximately the same sensitivity
as a single 81 cm (32") telescope, but in a more cost-effective manner.
Of course, ten small telescopes would not have the same ability as a
81 cm (32") telescope to reject the effects of daylight, should
daylight Optical SETI be desired. The approach could be adopted, as
with the original Cyclops Study, to gradually increase the number of
telescopes as the need arises and availability of funding, assuming
that ETI signals are not detected soon after system activation.
A large, single barrel, telescope could be constructed using
several smaller mirrors, each with its own focus and optical fiber. In
this way, only one drive system would be required. A much simpler
construction is possible because we do not need to image a star field,
just collect as many photons as possible from the region around a
single star (light-bucket mode of operation). This could be somewhat
like the Multi-Telescope Telescope (MTT) that has been designed by
Georgia State University's (GSU) Center for High Angular Resolution
Astronomy (CHARA). [92]
LIST OF PREVIOUS AND PRESENT OPTICAL SETI ACTIVITIES
The following material has been extracted from a comprehensive list
on all modern-day SETI activities so far, and was prepared in October
of 1991 by Dr. Jill Tarter of the SETI Institute.
Dr. Tarter lists sixty-three different SETI observing programs,
starting with Project Ozma in 1960 at the Green Bank National Radio
Observatory in West Virginia, to Harvard University's microwave search
of Messier M31 and M33 from the Oak Ridge Observatory. This list also
includes the 1983-1984 Amateur Microwave SETI program organized by
Dr. Kent Cullers, which used Silicon Valley Hams with their satellite
TV dishes (TVROs).
Of this list of sixty-three observing programs, only three were or
are concerned with Optical SETI, and these optical programs are listed
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 55
below. Optical SETI observing programs currently amount to less than
5 percent of all SETI programs to date. In actuality, the ratio is
nearer 3 percent because Shvartsman's two programs can be considered as
one. This supports the author's contention that Optical SETI has
suffered benign neglect.
Date: 1973 - 1974
Observer(s): Shvartsman et al. "MANIA"
Site: Special Astrophysical Observatory
(former Soviet Union)
Instrument Size (m): 0.6
Search Wavelength (nm): 550
Frequency Resolution (Hz): df = 100 kHz (dWl = 10^-7 nm)
Objects: 21 Peculiar Objects
Reference: 48
Comments: Optical search for short pulses of length
3 X 10^-7 to 300 seconds, and narrow
laser lines. Prototype for later system
on 6 m telescope.
Date: 1978 to Present
Observer(s): Shvartsman et al. "MANIA"
Site: Special Astrophysical Observatory
(former Soviet Union)
Instrument Size (m): 6
Search Wavelength (nm): 550
Frequency Resolution (Hz): df = 100 kHz (dWl = 10^-7 nm)
Objects: 93 Objects
Flux Limits: < 3 X 10^-4 of the optical flux is
variable in any object observed.
Total Hours: 250
Reference: 54 and 58
Comments: Have searched 30 Radio Objects with
Continuous Optical Spectra to date,
looking for optical pulses from
potential Kardashev type II or III
civilizations.
Date: 1990 to Present
Observer(s): Betz
Site: Mt. Wilson
Instrument Size (m): 1.65 m element of Townes IR
Interferometer
Search Wavelength (um): 10.6
Frequency Resolution (Hz): 3.5 MHz (35 m/s)
Objects: 100 nearby solar-type stars
Flux Limits: 1 MW transmitter out to 20 psc
Total Hours: Continuing
Reference: 57
Comments: Search for IR beacons at CO2 laser
frequency using narrowband acousto-
optical spectrometer.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF
THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
Volume 3, Number 6E - January 1992
###########################
TABLE OF CONTENTS
###########################
* ASA Membership and Article Submission Information
* The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in
the Optical Spectrum, Part E - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
###########################
ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION
The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic
(EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
ASA Officers and Council -
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Board of Advisors - Bill Bagnuolo, Jim Bitsko, Eric Greene
Council - Jim Bitsko, Bill Black, Mike Burkhead, Bill Crane,
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
COPYRIGHT NOTIFICATION
This document may be freely copied to other electronic bulletin
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following copyright notice attached. No license is given to reproduce
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Optical SETI debate.
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* Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley Copyright (c) 1992 *
* Consultant *
* AMIEE, SMIEEE, *
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* "Where No Photon Has Gone Before & *
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THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6E
Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)
IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART E
Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach
by
Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS
545 Northview Drive
Columbus, Ohio 43209
United States
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 56
DISCUSSION
The thirty-year-old rationale which would have us believe that the
low frequency end of the microwave regime is the place to search for
ETI signals is seriously suspect. If the underlying assumption of
present-day SETI lore that the best ETIs could do would be to send us
very weak low bandwidth signals is swept away, then almost all the
so-called problems that are usually advanced to dismiss the optical
approach become insignificant. This is even more so if the use of
optical heterodyne reception is assumed. The increased immunity of
such systems to background noise means that the signal detectability
constraints set by Planckian starlight are essentially removed. In
addition, with dechirping of the local-oscillator to remove local
Doppler drift along the line-of-sight, problems from local Doppler
drift are eliminated.
Because of the very narrow field-of-view of a photodetector array,
Doppler drift compensation can be made simultaneously to all pixels in
the array to a very high degree. The larger bandwidths mean that the
effects of finite laser linewidths, Doppler shift, and residual drift
are minimized, and the number of frequencies to search in the entire
optical spectrum is in reality no more than in the microwave spectrum.
Up to now, the SETI community has taken some comfort in the fact
that the obvious explanation as to why we have not detected ETI signals
is simply that they are too weak and that we need sophisticated
hardware and signal processing algorithms to extract this information.
An even simpler explanation for the lack of success so far is that
there are strong signals but they are elsewhere in the electromagnetic
spectrum. Of course, Tipler [39] has an even more simpler explanation.
It is the author's prediction that in years to come, it will be
hard to understand how anyone in the late Twentieth Century, e.g.,
people like Frank Tipler, could think it possible that humanity was all
alone - that Earth is atypical in that we are the "first civilization".
If anything, it is far more likely that the answer to "Where are they?"
is that we live in a "Cosmic Zoo". Tipler believes that ETI tech-
nologies only slightly superior to our own, if they exist, would have
produced self-replicating von Neumann machines (probes) that would have
rapidly populated the galaxy. Therefore, since we have not detected
these machines or they have not contacted us, ETIs do not exist.
The "Cosmic Zoo" rationale is probably the only viable alternative
explanation as to why ETIs do not appear to have colonized the entire
galaxy. We could just as easily be a typical or atypical civilization,
developing in a sector of the galaxy that is off limits for physical
contact, i.e, the Prime Directive so much loved by STAR TREK fans. As
was stated in the Preface, if the author has any doubts about the
efficacy of the Optical SETI, it surely has to do with the Kingsley
Paradox of "why communicate when one can just as easily travel?".
Nevertheless, the author is sufficiently convinced about the
plausibility of this Optical SETI rationale to believe it worthwhile to
construct his own Optical SETI Observatory and mount his own search.
He intends to start this project as soon as possible.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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The author has taken some pains to try and understand why he
believes Tipler is wrong. The author finds it very difficult to accept
that only once in the ten billion year history of our galaxy has
intelligent life arisen. Secondly, since the dawn of the Space Age,
i.e., since about 1957, he has thought that life was common throughout
the galaxy, and as a STAR TREK and science fiction fan, he has believed
that the future for humanity was in space. Thus, the idea that there
would be no one to meet out there is an anathema.
It is the author's intuitive feeling, that soon we will learn
that life appears relatively rapidly, given the right environmental
conditions. Life, rather than being the exception to the rule, is
the inevitable consequence of the mixture of certain elements,
temperatures, cosmic catastrophes, and time. In the roughly fifteen
billion year existence of the Universe, there will have been no
shortage of the latter. At the moment, we still have a very sketchy
picture of how life arose on this planet - that possibly, lines of
evolution were erased and new lines initiated several times during
Earth's history, due to bombardment by meteors, planetoids, and comets.
If ETIs are operating in the visible spectrum we should not expect
to see flashing lights in the sky, for the power required to do this
and outshine their stars is much greater than required to establish a
decent communications channel. Free space optical communications will
be a mature technology for any spacefaring civilization. It seems
reasonable to assume that they will spinoff this technology for SETI
transmitters should they wish to contact emerging technical
civilizations. The fact that optical magic frequencies are hard to
identify at this time, save for 10,600 nm, is not an argument that such
frequencies do not exist.
Perhaps the only reasons for ETIs to build very large microwave
arrays would be to eavesdrop on radio frequency leakage from primitive
technical civilizations (like us), to beam microwave power, for astro-
physical research, or to communicate with other galaxies. Even this
author has some problems in believing that the civilizations of
extraterrestrials would be so altruistic and long-lived to attempt
electromagnetic communications across the intergalactic voids. The
interstellar eavesdropping scenario is also problematic, as it is
likely that a developing technical civilization only produces
substantial radio frequency leakage for a short period in its history.
In time, other technologies like fiber optics will replace high-power
radio and TV transmitters, and military radar systems will be
decommissioned. For this reason, if we attempt eavesdropping with large
radio frequency antennas ourselves, failure to detect such signals may
not imply very much about the existence or lack thereof of ETIs. Thus,
if the MOP does not detect ETI in the next decade, we should not jump
to the conclusion that we are alone in the Milky Way galaxy.
On the other hand, some civilizations may be continually threatened
by cosmic catastrophes in the form of bombardment by planetoids. These
races may have instigated powerful radar early warning systems for
planetary defense purposes. These comments are good examples of how
difficult it is to predict the future. Even Arthur C. Clarke and
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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Stanley Kubrick appear to have been caught out by Pan Am going bankrupt
before it had a chance to ply the heavens between Earth and the Moon
(2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, to the strains of "The Blue Danube"), or that
there would be no Soviet Union in 1992, let alone in 2001 or 2010! We
can only hope (and pray) that there will be a dynamic American Space
Program in 2001. We should not be too hard on Arthur Clarke, for
without his idea concerning "Extra-Terrestrial Relays" (Page 41), when
the word "Extraterrestrial" meant something completely different, the
Soviet Union might still be in existence. One notes in passing that
the spaceship DISCOVERY, which was central to Arthur Clarke's 2001 and
its sequel 2010, used microwave dishes for its communications link with
Earth. [94-96] Surely, the main (high-gain) link should have been a
laser-based system, notwithstanding the bright Earth background, and the
high solar background that might on occasion be viewed by the DISCOVERY
looking back towards Earth! A heterodyning telescope of several meters
diameter on the DISCOVERY, and a similar system on or near Earth, could
easily sustain a 1-10 Gbit/s data rate out to Jupiter and beyond.
We cannot even be sure that ETIs would want their signals to be
detected within an atmosphere or otherwise too easily. These are
prevalent assumptions among most SETI proponents. There might be
logical reasons for ETIs to think that only when a technical
civilization begins to "emerge" from its planet would it be truly
mature enough, and in a culturally receptive frame of mind, to receive
signals from ETIs. Thus, the recipients' atmosphere itself might be
used as an automatic protective blanket to avoid cultural shock. In a
way, the electromagnetic search for ETI is one of the greatest hunts
and detective stories ever. Unfortunately, there are still so few
clues.
CONCLUSIONS
The author feels that it is still an open question as to what are
the optimum electromagnetic frequencies for interstellar communi-
cations. As he concluded in his talk last year to the SETI Institute:
"The jury is still out as to whether ETIs are signalling with low-
energy microwave photons, or with high-energy optical photons". What
the author will say is that he feels a strong case has been made in
this paper for the SETI community and NASA to review their present
attitude towards the optical approach. This does not mean that the
Microwave Observing Project (MOP) should be abandoned or severely
modified, since clearly we need to do a exhaustive search in the
microwave spectrum. Some of the signal processing techniques developed
for MOP will also be applicable to the optical search.
In many ways the Cyclops Report may have become the cornerstone
upon which much of present-day SETI lore rests. While the report
itself was a very comprehensive study of Microwave SETI, and of high
technical quality, certain very conservative assumptions in that study
lead this author to consider the report flawed. Just like for NASA's
studies of the efficacy and cost of Microwave PowerSat technology back
in the 1970s, if we ask the wrong questions we are likely to get
incorrect answers. Attempting to lift all the material for PowerSats
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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from the deep gravitational well of Earth is sure to make the
technology uneconomic and damaging to the environment. Sweep away the
inherent anthropocentric Assumption of Ineptitude of present SETI lore
and the problems associated with the optical approach disappear.
There appear to be some indications of group-think within the SETI
community, where it is easier to agree with the consensus than disagree.
The U.S. Space Shuttle CHALLENGER tragedy of 1986 is a classic example
of how group-think and the desire to conform can have immense ramifi-
cations. The issues may not be so acute here: Nevertheless, they
represent an impediment to the acceptance of new (or revisited) ideas.
Planning for an extensive optical search should be started now, so
that if by the year 2000 the results of the MOP are negative, we can
immediately initiate Professional Optical SETI activities. This would
be a natural extension to MOP so that the program could eventually be
renamed MOOP, the Microwave and Optical Observing Project. In the
meantime, amateur astronomers could be conducting a low-level
(low-sensitivity) optical search, helping to establish some ground
rules for a later high-sensitivity professional optical search.
It is believed that Professional Optical SETI with large hetero-
dyning telescopes is compatible with Professional Optical Astronomy
in that they can share most of the hardware, yet be undertaken at
different times so as not to interfere with each other's observations.
There is theoretical and experimental evidence to suggest that the new
adaptive telescope technology using Rayleigh or Sodium Resonance
Fluorescence laser guide stars [69] can be made to work during daylight
hours. This clearly has important ramifications for the concept of
Symbiotic (Serendip) Optical SETI. The idea of modifying Earth's Great
Optical Telescopes for Symbiotic (Serendip) Professional Optical SETI
has many attractions; where the scientific endeavors of conventional
and SETI astronomy could be of mutual benefit to each other.
There is probably a case here for an automated retrospective
historical study of stellar spectrographic plates to see if ETI signals
actually exist and are on record. It is quite possible that anomalous
spectral lines will be found in the record, signifying laser trans-
missions, but which had previously been overlooked, fogged the film,
saturated the recording media, been mistaken for natural bright
emission lines, or put down to "technical problems with the spectro-
graphic equipment". It would not be the first time that a major
scientific discovery had been missed for lack of attention and
curiosity. There does appear to be some doubt as to whether C.W.
ETI signals, if present, would have been accidently detected during
conventional optical astronomy and recognized for what they were. This
is the crux of the matter as far as the efficacy of Amateur Optical
SETI is concerned.
It is left as an exercise for others to determine the probability
of missing an ETI signal at any particular flux level. It is the very
concept that ETIs are supposed to be rare which makes it plausible to
suggest that the historic accidental discovery of ETI by optical
astronomers would be unlikely.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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Initially, to reduce the optical search time, we would concentrate
on efficient laser transition frequencies presently known to humanity,
and Fraunhofer dark lines. It is suggested that we must keep an open
mind here. For thirty years we have been digging relatively deep
trenches in a very small corner of our electromagnetic backyard. Was
it prudent to do this without at least turning over the topsoil in the
rest of the electromagnetic garden, particularly in that part of the
spectrum where solar output peaks, and which tells us and ETIs most
about our Universe?
The study also seems to indicate that the amateur SETI enthusiast
could make a useful contribution to the search using medium-size
amateur optical telescopes with photon-counting receivers. It is
certainly more debatable whether Optical ETI signals are present at
sufficient flux intensities to be detectable by small incoherent
telescopes. However, although the theoretical SNRs described for small
photon-counting (direct-detection) receiving telescopes are not
particularly impressive, even if very high mean EIRPs are assumed, it
must be remembered that ETI signals are likely to be pulsed and far
more detectable than the C.W. signals assumed here for the simplified
analyses. This would be particularly true for detection systems with
optical bandwidths greater than 100 GHz.
Today, the technology is available to construct efficient,
highly-sensitive photon-counting receivers for the visible and near-
infrared regimes. For several thousand dollars, top-of-the-line
amateur optical telescopes could be equipped with the instrumentation
to make unattended frequency searches of selected targeted stars. If
this new scientific endeavor really takes off, market growth will lead
to considerable reductions in hardware and software costs, making this
activity more affordable.
Not only would it be possible to slave many amateur telescopes
together at one site, to produce the equivalent of a larger telescope,
but it may also be possible to slave telescopes at different sites and
average the data. This would, of course, require accurate time
synchronization between the telescopes, though this should not be much
of a problem. However, the requirement to match the wavelength
accuracy of the optical filter or monochromator to within 100 GHz is
probably a more severe obstacle. In the case of co-site slaving, where
pre-detection combining of photons would occur, the SNR would increase
at a rate proportional to the number of identical telescopes. For
remote site slaving, where only post-detection electrical signal
combining could be employed, the SNR would increase at a rate
proportional to the square root of the number of identical telescopes.
While it is the author's view that Professional Optical SETI ought
not to require the use of more sophisticated signal processing
algorithms like KLTs [73,86] for extracting very weak pulsed signals
from noise, Amateur Optical SETI may well benefit from its use.
Perhaps one of the interesting aspects of the Amateur Optical SETI
concept using incoherent detection is that not only may there be a
useful contribution made by the enthusiast, but that such activities
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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may occur before Professional (Visible) Optical SETI and its coherent
detection systems get established. A low-level search by amateurs
might help set some of the criteria for later professional searches,
even if the results are negative. Amateur optical SETI has the
potential to bring SETI to the masses, something that has not really
been possible at microwave frequencies, except in a limited way for a
few enthusiastic radio hams with modified satellite receivers
(AMSETI). [26] It also has the power to cause a renaissance in public
interest for astronomy and the night sky. It is an activity in which
amateur optical astronomers who live in big cities can participate
unincumbered by light pollution, the bane of conventional amateur
astronomers. This could be the opportunity to dust off those old
telescopes and put them to use again.
It is clear [27-29] that today there is an enormous interest in
SETI amongst the population. Professional SETI scientists could tap
into that interest to receive increased SETI funding and the cooperation
of enthusiastic amateurs.
It does not appear that Amateur Optical SETI at the infrared Carbon
Dioxide (CO2) wavelength of 10,600 nm would be very sensible because of
the limitations set by the essentially 24-hour day, 300 K temperature
background of the atmosphere, particularly for small apertures. As we
have seen, Professional Optical SETI in the visible and near-infrared
can use coherent or incoherent optical receivers. The coherent
approach is generally more sensitive but far more complex and
expensive. However, based on performance considerations, both ground-
based Professional and Amateur Optical SETI in the infrared would have
to be restricted to coherent receivers. This represents a complexity
and cost problem for the amateur. Of course, there could be very
powerful CO2 ETI transmitters present, as powerful as conjectured for
Visible SETI that have so far escaped detection, for we may not been
looking in the right direction at the right moment, with suitable
detection equipment. The CO2 observational work now being undertaken by
Dr. Albert Betz and Professor Charles Townes [57] is addressing this
issue.
Presently, Dr. Jill Tarter and Deborah Schwartz-Koyler of the SETI
Institute are involved with a NASA project (NASA NCC 2-407) titled:
"Supporting Research and Technology Activities in the Preparation of a
Three-Dimensional Map of the Infrared Sky". The goal of this project
is to construct a detailed three-dimensional model of the infrared sky,
which will enable us to reconsider the question of the "best" frequency
at which to conduct a search for electromagnetic radiation, which is
indicative of the existence of an extraterrestrial technological
civilization. Thus, despite the general consensus that Microwave SETI
has the greatest likelihood for success, others are even now beginning
to probe deeper into the infrared part of the optical spectrum.
Since the start of modern-day SETI thirty-two years ago, a strong
Microwave SETI constituency has developed. It will be understandable
if this author's views are attacked by that community, for many SETI
researchers have much at stake - decades of work invested in the
microwave regime and professional reputations. I would council the
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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following thought: The public, and by that I mean the taxpayer, and
Members of Congress, should clearly be informed that it is quite
possible that the search for ETI in the microwave spectrum will be
unsuccessful - not because such signals are not present, but because we
are presently tuned to the wrong frequencies. It may well be necessary
to extend the search into the optical regime before we can be sure
whether electromagnetic ETI signals do or do not exist. It will not
look good for the SETI community if, in ten years time, they have to go
back to Congress, cap in hand, and ask for more funding to extend the
search into the optical regime after decades of maintaining that the
optical approach was useless. Note that these sentiments have
previously been expressed privately to both the SETI Institute and
NASA. It is the author's contention that SETI has been "hijacked" by
radio astronomers. It should now be clear to the reader that for
humanity to have devoted less than 5 percent of its SETI observation
programs to the optical regime, and an even smaller percentage to basic
Optical SETI research, was probably unwise. The author hopes that
readers will urge the SETI Institute, NASA, and Congress to rectify
this omission.
NASA should be able to put an end to recent problems in deploying
large high-gain microwave antennas in space, e.g., on the GALILEO
probe, by moving to fixed high-gain optical antennas as soon as
possible. During the next few decades, other lights (visible and near-
infrared) will appear in the sky of terrene origin: They will be the
advanced laser communication systems of GEO and LEO satellites, along
with signals coming back to Earth from NASA's next generation of deep
space probes. [63-66] Sometime next century, humans will be seen
walking on the planet Mars. These HDTV television signals are likely
to traverse most of the distance between Mars and Earth via laser, be
relayed around the globe via laser-based geosynchronous satellites, and
arrive in people's home via optical fiber. When humanity sends out
(non-relativistic) interstellar probes to investigate nearby star
systems, the data and pictures of those encounters (hopefully with
other planetary systems) will come back to Earth via laser. The
computer technology of the day will also be substantially dependent on
photonics. See the January 13, 1992 issue of NEWSWEEK (pp. 56-57) for
the article on "The Highway to the Future", describing a fiber-optic
multi-gigabit data highway system being proposed for the United States.
Also see the January 9, 1992 issue of ELECTRONIC DESIGN (pp. 73-80) for
the article on "The World of Communications is Moving to Fiber Optics".
The author has seen the future, and it is photonic.
Truly, the superior communications and computing technology of the
future will be photonic, a technology that is likely to be around for
a while. Indeed, in the future, one of the main uses for low-gain
microwave space communications might well be the "acquisition" of the
party at the other end of the link, so that the high-gain laser
communications system can be locked on! The amateur SETI enthusiast,
with the right photonic receiving equipment, will be able to tune in on
these Earth-bound optical transmissions. How ironic that next century
the complaint will surely arise that terrene optical transmissions are
interfering with our ability to carry out Optical SETI free of false
alarms! Now where have we heard that before?
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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We end as we began. If we look at the basic beliefs that
differentiate the proponents of the Microwave and Optical SETI
rationales, or the belief in Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs), an
area that has been even more controversial than SETI, we find that the
respective convictions hinge on our assumptions about the technical
abilities of ETIs. In the case of Microwave SETI, the proponents
believe that while intelligent life within in galaxy is not rare, that
ETIs do not have the technical wherewithal to get the full benefits of
the superior optical technology for interstellar communications. If
the reader subscribes to the Optical SETI rationale, they will
additionally believe that ETIs have the technical prowess to use the
superior laser technology in an effective manner. Advocates of UFOs
essentially accept that ETI technology is so superior to our own that
rapid interstellar travel is easy for them, and if these ETIs actually
wanted to make contact, they would make physical contact. In the end,
the reader's belief will be limited only by their own vision.
The theoretical results quoted in this paper are based on standard
text book relationships, familiar to students of electrical
engineering, physics, and astronomy. Please refer to Appendix A for a
list of most of these formulas and specimen calculations. Perhaps the
main reason for the difference between the conclusions of this analysis
and many previous comparative SETI analyses is that the author has
shown a bit more imagination.
A few additional closing statements. It may appear from the
author's comments throughout this document that he does not hold high
regards for the efforts over the past thirty-two years of many noted
(microwave) SETI scientists. This would be far from the truth. It is
the nature of science that for every two steps forward, it may often
take a step back in the light of new discoveries or new ideas. It is
very easy with hindsight to criticize those who have gone before, but
without their predecessors' work and developments in other scientific
fields and technologies, it is unlikely that the new discovery or idea
would ever have seen the light of day. Each generation of scientists
and engineers builds on the foundations laid by earlier generations.
Readers are reminded that there is little which is innovative about
the contents of this document which have not previously been described
by Charles Townes [46-47,80] and others - the author has just been a
bit more forceful. Innovative ideas, like good wines, take time to
mature. The author hopes that the effort he has expended in this
revisiting of the optical approach to the search for extraterrestrial
intelligence will at last cause Optical SETI to be seriously considered
by the scientific community as warranting closer study.
This paper could be the start of an exciting new chapter in both
SETI and professional/amateur optical astronomy. One thing which can
be said for certain is that should a professional or amateur
astronomer discover electromagnetic (radio or optical) signals from
ETIs, neither they nor humanity will ever be the same. There is no
doubt that a Nobel Prize will await the discoverer. Perhaps now is the
time to get familiar with those Post-Detection SETI Protocols! [25]
See Appendix B for a description of these protocols.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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33. McDonough, Thomas R., "Searching for Extraterrestrial
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terrestrial Intelligence", INTERDISCIPLINARY SCIENCE REVIEWS,
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37. Horowitz, Paul, "A Morning With Philip Morrison - Exploring the
Extraterrestrial Mind", THE PLANETARY REPORT, Vol. 11, No. 5,
September/October 1991, pp. 4-7.
38. Williams, John M., "The Star Hunters", FINAL FRONTIER, November/
December 1991, pp. 38-40, 50-53.
39. Tipler, Frank J., "Alien Life", A review of the book "The Cosmic
Water Hole" by Emmanuel Davoust, MIT Press, NATURE, Vol. 354,
No. 6351, November 28, 1991, pp. 334-335.
The Microwave Observing Project (MOP) -
40. Gulkis, Sam and Edward T. Olsen, "The NASA SETI Program At JPL",
PROCEEDINGS OF THE SETI WORKSHOP, Green Bank Workshop Series,
May 1985.
41. Cullers, D. Kent, Ivan R. Linscott, and Bernard M. Oliver, "Signal
Processing In SETI", COMMUNICATIONS OF THE ACM, Vol. 28, No. 11,
November 1985, pp. 1151-1163.
42. Oliver, Bernard M., and Michael J. Klein, PROGRAM PLAN FOR THE
SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI), Ames Research
Center and Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA, March 30, 1987.
43. Olsen, E. T., R. B. Brady, D. J. Burns, G. T. Cooper, W. T. S.
Deich, S. Gulkis, M. F. Garyantes, and M. J. Klein, "A Development
Signal Processing System For The NASA All Sky Survey", JPL SETI
REPRINT SERIES, No. 003, October 1988.
44. Klein, Michael J., E. T. Olsen, and N. A. Renzetti, "The NASA SETI
Sky Survey: Recent Developments", TDA PROGRESS REPORT, April 15,
1989, pp. 218-226.
45. Gribbin, John, "Is Anyone Out There?", NEW SCIENTIST, May 25,
1991, pp. 29-32.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 67
Optical SETI -
46. Schwartz, R. N., and Charles H. Townes, "Interstellar and Inter-
planetary Communication by Optical Masers", NATURE, Vol. 190,
No. 4772, April 15, 1961, pp. 205-208. Also ref. 47.
47. Cameron, A. G. W. (Editor), INTERSTELLAR COMMUNICATION,
W. A. Benjamin, 1963, p. 223.
48. Shvartsman, V. F., COMMUNICATIONS OF THE SPECIAL ASTROPHYSICAL
OBSERVATORY, No. 19, 1977, pp. 5-39.
49. Connes, Pierre, "Olbers Paradox Revisited and the Future of
Intelligence", CONFERENCE ON LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE, Paris, France,
November 19-21, 1979.
50. Beskin, G. M., S. I. Neizvestnyi, A. A. Pimonov, V. L.
Plakhotnichenko, and V. F. Shvartsman, "A Photometry System to
Search for Optical Variability on Time-Scales of 3 X 10^-7 to
300 s: Main Results", C. M. Humphries (editor), INSTRUMENTATION
FOR ASTRONOMY WITH LARGE OPTICAL TELESCOPES, D. Reidel Publishing
Company, 1982, pp. 181-184.
51. Townes, Charles H., "At What Wavelength Should We Search for
Signals from Extraterrestrial Intelligence?", PROC. NATIONAL
ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, U.S.A., Vol. 80, 1983, pp. 1147-1151.
52. Zuckerman, Ben, "Preferred Frequencies for SETI Observations",
ACTA ASTRONAUTICA, Vol. 12, No. 2, 1985, pp. 127-129.
53. Betz, Albert, "A Directed Search for Extraterrestrial Laser
Signals", ACTA ASTRONAUTICA, Vol. 13, No. 10, 1986, pp. 623-629.
54. Shvartsman, V. F., "SETI in Optical Range with the 6 m Telescope"
(MANIA), BIOASTRONOMY - THE NEXT STEPS, G. Marx (Editor), Kluwer
Academic Publishers, 1988, pp. 389-390.
55. Filippova, L. N., N. S. Kardashev, S. F. Likhachev, and V. S.
Strelnitskij, "On the Strategy of SETI", VAL CENIS THIRD BIO-
ASTRONOMY PROCEEDINGS, To be published by Springer-Verlag, 1991.
56. Rather, John D. G., "Lasers Revisited: Their Superior Utility for
Interstellar Beacons", JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY
SOCIETY, Vol. 44, No. 8, August, 1991, pp. 385-392.
57. Betz, Albert, "A Search for IR Laser Signals", USA-USSR JOINT
CONFERENCE ON THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENT LIFE,
University of California, Santa Cruz, August 5-9, 1991.
58. Beskin, Gregory, M., "Results of Searches for Optical Signals of
Extraterrestrial Intelligence", USA-USSR JOINT CONFERENCE ON THE
SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENT LIFE, University of
California, Santa Cruz, August 5-9, 1991.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 68
Hubble Space Telescope (HST) -
59. McRoberts, Joseph J., SPACE TELESCOPE, NASA Publication EP-166,
1982.
60. Hubble Space Telescope Media Reference Guide, Published by NASA
and Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
61. Field, George, and Donald Goldsmith, THE SPACE TELESCOPE,
Contemporary Books, Inc., 1989.
62. Brown, Robert A., "Systematic Aspects of Direct Extrasolar Planet
Detection", BIOASTRONOMY - THE NEXT STEPS, Edited by G. Marx,
Kluwer Academic Publishers, 1988, pp. 117-123.
Free-Space Communications -
63. Lesh, James R., and Marc D. Rayman, "Deep-Space Missions Look to
Laser Communications", LASER FOCUS/ELECTRO-OPTICS, Vol. 24,
No. 10, October, 1988, pp. 81-86.
64. Begley, David, "Lasers for Spaceborne Communications", PHOTONICS
SPECTRA, Vol. 23, No. 2, February, 1989, pp. 73-80.
65. Begley, David, and Bhogi Boscha, "Laser Diodes Conquer the
Challenge of Space Communications", PHOTONICS SPECTRA, Vol. 23,
No. 4, April, 1989, pp. 147-155.
66. Begley, David L., and Bernard D. Seery (Editors), FREE-SPACE LASER
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES II, SPIE Proceedings, Vol. 1218,
January, 1990.
67. Clarke, Arthur C., ASCENT TO ORBIT, Chapters 4 and 8, John Wiley
and Sons, 1984.
Adaptive Optics -
68. Mercer, L.B., "Adaptive Coherent Optical Receiver Array",
ELECTRONICS LETTERS, Vol. 26, No. 18, 30th August 1990,
pp. 1518-1520.
69. Gardner, Chester S., Byron M. Welsh, Laird A. Thompson, "Design
and Performance Analysis of Adaptive Optical Telescopes Using
Laser Guide Stars, PROC. IEEE, Vol. 78, No. 11, November, 1990,
pp. 1721-1743.
70. Carts, Y. A., "Adaptive Optics Goes Public", LASER FOCUS WORLD,
August, 1991, pp. 45-48.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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Optoelectronics -
71. Pratt, William K., LASER COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, John Wiley, 1969.
72. Yariv, Amnon, INTRODUCTION TO OPTICAL ELECTRONICS, Second Edition,
Holt, Rinehart, & Winston, 1976.
73. Gagliardi, Robert M., and Sherman Karp, OPTICAL COMMUNICATIONS,
John Wiley & Sons, 1976.
74. Osinski, M. and J. Buss, "Linewidth Broadening Factor in Semi-
conductor Lasers - An Overview", IEEE J. QUANTUM ELECTRONICS,
Vol. QE-23, No. 1, January 1987, pp. 9-29.
75. Barry, J. R., and E. A. Lee, "Performance of Coherent Optical
Receivers", PROC. IEEE, Vol. 78, No. 8, August 1990,
pp. 1369-1394.
76. Wagner, Richard E., and Richard A. Linke, "Heterodyne Lightwave
Systems: Moving Towards Commercial Use", IEEE LIGHTWAVE COMMUNI-
CATION SYSTEMS (LCS), Vol. 1, No. 4, November 1990, pp. 28-35.
77. Green, Paul E., and Rajiv Ramaswami, "Direct Detection Lightwave
Systems: Why Pay More?", IEEE LIGHTWAVE COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS
(LCS), Vol. 1, No. 4, November 1990, pp. 36-49.
78. Mcintyre, Robert J., Comments on "Performance of Coherent Optical
Receivers", PROC. IEEE, Vol. 79, No. 7, July 1991, pp. 1080-1082.
79. Hecht, Jeff, UNDERSTANDING LASERS, Howard W. Sams & Company, 1988.
80. Perry, Tekla, S., "The Innovative Mind at Work - Charles H. Townes:
Masers, Lasers, and More", Special Report, IEEE SPECTRUM, Vol. 28,
No. 12, December 1991, pp. 32-33.
81. Kingsley, Stuart A., D. E. N. Davies, B. Culshaw, and D. Howard,
"Fiberdyne Systems", Proceedings of FOC '78, Information
Gatekeepers, Chicago, September 6-8, 1978, pp. 152-158.
82. Kingsley, Stuart A., and S. Lange, "Interferometric optical fibre
sensors and multimode heterodyning", FOC '80, Information
Gatekeepers, San Francisco, September 16-18, 1980.
Communications -
83. Schwartz, M., INFORMATION TRANSMISSION, MODULATION AND NOISE,
McGraw-Hill, 1970.
84. Jakes, W. C. J. (Editor), MICROWAVE MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS, John
Wiley & Sons, 1974.
85. Johnson, Richard C., and Henry Jasik, (Editors), ANTENNA
ENGINEERING HANDBOOK, McGraw-Hill Book Company, 1984.
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Page 70
86. Dixon, Robert S., and Charles A. Klein, "On the Detection of
Unknown Signals", USA-USSR JOINT CONFERENCE ON THE SEARCH FOR
EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENT LIFE, University of California,
Santa Cruz, August 5-9, 1991.
87. Ang, Peng H., and Peter A. Ruetz, "Video Compression Makes Big
Gains", IEEE SPECTRUM, Vol. 28, No. 10, October 1991, pp. 16-19.
Astronomy -
88. Motz, Lloyd and Anneta Duveen, ESSENTIALS OF ASTRONOMY,
2nd Edition, Columbia University Press, 1977.
89. Pasachoff, Jay M. and Marc L. Kutner, UNIVERSITY ASTRONOMY,
W.B. Saunders Co., 1978.
90. Lang, Kenneth R., ASTROPHYSICAL FORMULAE, Springer-Verlag, 1978.
91. Bracewell, Ronald N., and Robert H. MacPhie, "Searching for
Nonsolar Planets", ICARUS, Vol 38, p. 136, 1979. Also ref. 13.
92. McAlister, H., "The CHARA Multi-Telescope Telescope", EJASA,
Vol. 1, No. 1, August 1989.
93. Douglas, N., F. Maaswinkel, H. Butcher, and S. Frandsen, "A Study
of the Potential of Heterodyned Holographic Spectrometry for
Application in Astronomy", ESO Technical Report No. 15, EUROPEAN
SOUTHERN OBSERVATORY, June 1991.
General Science Fiction -
94. Clarke, Arthur C., 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, NAL Books, 1968.
95. Clarke, Arthur C., 2010: ODYSSEY TWO, Ballantine Books, 1982.
96. Clarke, Arthur C., 2061: ODYSSEY THREE, Ballantine Books, 1987.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF
THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
Volume 3, Number 6F - January 1992
###########################
TABLE OF CONTENTS
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* ASA Membership and Article Submission Information
* The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in
the Optical Spectrum, Part F - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
###########################
ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION
The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic
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Version: 1.00
File: EJASAV3.N06
THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC
January 1992 - Vol. 3, No. 6F
Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI)
IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM - PART F
Optical SETI Revisited and the Amateur Approach
by
Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley
FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS
545 Northview Drive
Columbus, Ohio 43209
United States
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 71
APPENDIX A
THEORY AND SPECIMEN CALCULATIONS
The Drake Equation:
Fundamental to all SETI approaches is the belief that there are a
reasonable number of technological civilizations out there who might be
trying to communicate with us.
The following formula for the number of technological civilizations in
the galaxy is a modified form of the one devised in 1961 by Frank Drake
[2-3] of Cornell (also President of the SETI Institute) and is known
as the famous "Drake Equation": [13,25]
N = R*.fp.ne.fl.fi.fc.L (1)
where R* = number of stars in the Milky Way galaxy (400 X 10^9),
fp = fraction of stars that have planetary systems (0.1),
ne = average number of planets in such star systems that can
support life (1),
fl = fraction of planets on which life actually occurs (0.1),
fi = fraction of such planets which intelligent life arises
(0.01),
fc = fraction of intelligent beings knowing how to communicate
with other civilizations (0.1),
L = average lifetime (fraction of the age of its star) of such
technical civilizations (0.001).
Substituting what some might say are conservative values given in
parentheses for the entire Milky Way galaxy:
N = 4,000
Thus, there could be a minimum 4,000 worlds for us to detect in our
galaxy. If there were only 4,000 technical civilizations within a
galaxy that is 100,000 light years in diameter, then the probability
of detecting ETI signals is likely to be small. However, many SETI
scientists and exobiologists give more optimistic values for these
parameters, and thus yield higher values for N. If fp, fl, fi, fc,
and L are significantly higher, our galaxy would be teeming with
intelligent technical civilizations. If we assume that the average
lifetime of a star is 10 billion years, then a value of L = 0.001
implies that civilizations can last 10 million years. Clearly, there
is a substantial degree of uncertainty in the value of L.
Within 1,000 light years of Sol there are 10 million stars, of which
1 million are solar-type. Thus, taking a more optimistic value for
"N", the SETI community reasons that there is a significant chance of
detecting an ETI signal if we "look" out to 1,000 light years, assuming
of course, that we are tuned to the correct frequencies. The issue of
the correct frequencies to search is at the heart of this paper.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 72
Apparent Stellar and Signal Magnitudes:
The relationship between Apparent Stellar Magnitude (m) [88-90] and the
brightness or intensity of a solar-type star (or a laser operating at or
near the peak of the photopic response) may be expressed in the form:
m = -[19 + (2.5).log(Ir)] (2)
where Ir = received intensity (W/m^2).
The threshold for unaided eye visibility (dark sky) is m = +6. As
mentioned above, this expression may also be used to estimate the
approximate visibility of a laser, i.e., the apparent signal magnitude,
if its wavelength is not too far removed from the peak of the low-
intensity visual response at 500 nm. Here are several intensities and
corresponding magnitudes as a function of range R. We note that the
Sun's total output (EIRP) = 3.90 X 10^26 watts:
At R = 1 A.U. (1.496 X 10^11 m):
Ir = 1.39 kW/m^2
m = -26.8
Thus the solar flux density at normal incidence just outside Earth's
atmosphere is 1.39 kW/m^2.
At R = 10 L.Y. (9.461 X 10^16 m):
Ir = 3.48 X 10^-9 W/m^2
m = +2.2
At R = 100 L.Y. (9.461 X 10^17 m):
Ir = 3.48 X 10^-11 W/m^2
m = +7.2*
At R = 1,000 L.Y. (9.461 X 10^18 m):
Ir = 3.48 X 10^-13 W/m^2
m = +12.2*
* Not visible to the unaided eye.
In Table 2 (Page 22), Apparent Magnitudes are quoted for stars,
extrasolar planets, and ETI transmitters on the basis of the visual
brightness or intensity of each object acting alone. Because the
reason for quoting the Apparent Magnitudes is to demonstrate that
relatively strong laser transmitters are still "visually" weak, the
Apparent Magnitudes are only given for the visible wavelength.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 73
Planckian Starlight Background:
For observations at night, the background Nb may be taken as the
Planckian (black body) starlight continuum level (Npl). [88-90] With
no allowance for the Fraunhofer dark line absorption or bright line
emission, the non-polarized spectral energy density is given by:
2.PI.h.f^3r^2
Npl = ----------------------- W/m^2.Hz (3)
c^2[e^(h.f/k.T) - 1]R^2
where h = Planck's constant (6.63 X 10^-34 J.s),
c = velocity of light (3 X 10^8 m/s),
Wl = wavelength (656 nm),
f = frequency (c/Wl = 4.57 X 10^14 Hz),
k = Boltzmann's constant (1.38 X 10^-23 J/K),
T = temperature (5778 K),
r = radius of star (6.96 X 10^8 m),
R = distance of receiver (10 L.Y. = 9.461 X 10^16 m).
At R= 1 A.U.:
Npl = 2.19 X 10^-12 W/m^2.Hz
At R = 10 L.Y.:
Npl = 5.47 X 10^-24 W/m^2.Hz
Full Width Half Maximum (FWHM) Angular Beamwidth:
For the purposes of this part of the analysis, we have assumed a fully
(uniformly) illuminated circular aperture and not a beam with a
Gaussian intensity profile, as might be obtained from a laser with a
single transverse TEMoo mode. The diffraction limited half-power
(-3dB) beamwidth is given by: [66,85]
(58.5).Wl
FWHM Beamwidth = --------- degrees (4)
d
where Wl = wavelength,
d = diameter (aperture) of telescope.
For d = 10 m (professional telescope) and Wl = 656 nm:
FWHM Beamwidth = 0.0138 arc seconds
For d = 0.30 m (amateur telescope) and Wl = 656 nm:
FWHM Beamwidth = 0.461 arc seconds
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 74
Full Width Half Maximum (FWHM) Diameter:
The diffraction limited far-field half-power (-3 dB) beam diameter is
given by:
(1.02).Wl.R
FWHM Diameter = ----------- meters (5)
d
At R = 10 L.Y.:
FWHM Diameter = 6.33 X 10^9 m = 0.0423 A.U.
Gaussian Beamwidth:
If a laser is used to illuminate a transmitting telescope, and if the
aperture is greater than 4wo, theory gives the far-field 1/e^2 beam
diffraction angle as:
(115).Wl
Gaussian Beamwidth = -------- degrees (6)
PI.wo
where wo = the TEMoo mode waist radius of the Gaussian beam.
For a compromise aperture diameter d = 2wo, where a little diffraction
will occur and produce some sidelobe energy, the (1/e^2) diffraction
angle of the main lobe of a 10-meter telescope is given by:
Gaussian Beamwidth = 0.0172 arc seconds
The corresponding (1/e^2) Gaussian beam diameter at the target is:
Gaussian Diameter = 0.0527 A.U.
This is not that different to the previous case for a fully-illuminated
aperture (no amplitude taper apodization).
Rayleigh Range:
For a Gaussian beam, the Rayleigh or near-field range of a diffraction
limited single or multi-aperture (array) telescope is given by:
PI.wo^2
Ray = ------- (7)
Wl
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 75
At the Rayleigh range Ray, the beam diameter has expanded by a factor of
1.414. As the distance increases beyond the Rayleigh range, the beam
diameter becomes proportional to distance, and the inverse square law
applies to the beam intensity.
Considering our 10-meter diameter transmitting telescope with a
Gaussian beam, and a compromise aperture diameter d = 2wo.
For wo = 5 m and Wl = 656 nm:
Ray = 1.2 X 10^8 m
= 0.0008 A.U.
Now consider an array that has a width of 10 km.
For wo = 5 km and Wl = 656 nm:
Ray = 1.2 X 10^14 m
= 800 A.U.
Finally, consider a Mercury-size planetary phased-array as conjectured
by Dr. John Rather. [56]
For a wo = 2,439 km and Wl = 656 nm:
Ray = 2.8 X 10^19 m
= 3,000 L.Y.
With such a huge array, the inverse square law does not apply over
considerable distances. The Rayleigh range can stretch out over 3,000
light years, so that the flux density is essentially undiminished by
distance, accept for any interstellar absorption effects. Of course,
the implication that a pencil beam (celestial searchlight) some
3,500 km in diameter, i.e, of planetary diameter, could be landed on
a desired planet 10 lights years away, let alone 3,000 light years,
somewhat stretches even this author's imagination!
Polar Response:
The Polar Response (PR) or Directivity of a transmitting or receiving
telescope with a single fully illuminated circular aperture, with no
amplitude taper (apodization), is given by: [85]
[2.J1{(PI.d/Wl).sin(PHI)}]^2
PR = ---------------------------- (8)
[(PI.d/Wl).sin(PHI)]^2
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 76
where J1 = Bessel Function of the first kind,
d = diameter (aperture) of telescope,
Wl = wavelength,
PHI = angular separation.
For the 10-meter diameter telescope at 656 nm, the first sidelobe is
located at 0.022 arc seconds from the main lobe, and the response is
17.6 dB down. The second sidelobe occurs at 0.036 arc seconds from the
main lobe, and response is 23.8 dB down.
In a diffraction limited space-based telescope system, where the angle
PHI between the image of the transmitter and star is >= FWHM/2 (-3 dB
half width half maximum), the Planckian suppression, ignoring
scattering within the telescope, is given by:
8
Suppression Factor >= 10.Log[-------------------------] dB (9)
PI.{(PI.d/Wl).sin(PHI)}^3
Equ. 9 essentially shows that the suppression factor is inversely
proportional to the telescope's aperture raised to the third power.
For a transmitter at 10 light years, located 1 A.U. from its star, and
centered on the main lobe of the receiver, the maximum angular
separation of the star is 0.275 arcseconds. Using the parameters for
the 10-meter diameter 656 nm telescope which has a FWHM beamwidth of
0.0138 arc seconds, we find that the condition PHI >= FWHM/2 is more
than satisfied, and the minimum suppression factor for the Planckian
starlight continuum is:
Suppression = 50 dB
This value is added to the Signal-To-Planckian Ratio (SPR) to arrive at
the effective SPR when a large telescope is diffraction limited, and
viewing a nearby star system at right angles to the star's plane of
ecliptic (Table 2, Line 23, Page 22). The suppression factor can be
larger than predicted by Equ. 9 (up to a limit set by scattering and
secondary mirror diffraction) if the star's image happens to be situated
in a response null. However, scattering effects and non-ideal optics
will set a limit to this suppression factor to between 40 and 50 dB.
Antenna Gain:
The gain of a uniformly illuminated antenna is given by: [5,71,85]
4.PI.At
G = ------- (10)
Wl^2
where At = area of transmitting telescope mirror (78.5 m^2).
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 77
For a 10-meter diameter telescope at 656 nm:
G = 2.3 X 10^15
= 153.6 dB
Effective Isotropic Radiated Power (EIRP):
The Effective Isotropic Radiated Power [5,8,85] is given by:
EIRP = G.Pt Watts (11)
where Pt = transmitter power (W).
For Pt = 1 GW:
EIRP = 2.29 X 10^24 W
Received Signal Intensity:
The received signal intensity just outside Earth's atmosphere is:
EIRP
Ir = -------- (12)
4.PI.R^2
where EIRP = effective isotropic radiated power (W),
R = range (10 L.Y. = 9.461 X 10^16 m).
At a range of ten light years, a 1 GW transmitter EIRP = 2.29 X 10^24 W
produces an intensity (Ir) just outside our atmosphere of
2.04 X 10^-11 W/m^2. For a perfect space-based 10-meter diameter
telescope, the received signal power (Pr) is 1.6 nW.
Received Signal Power:
From Equs. 10, 11, and 12, and because the receiving aperture area
At = PI.D^2/4, we may write the "perfect" received signal for the
symmetrical telescope system in the simple form:
PI^2.D^4
Pr = Pt.----------- (13)
16.R^2.Wl^2
It can be clearly seen from the above, that the received power is
proportional to D^4 and inversely proportional to Wl^2. Thus, beamed
optical links, particularly those operating in the visible spectrum,
have the potential for tremendous throughputs.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 78
A slightly simpler form of this expression has been used by Albert Betz
in his recent CO2 paper. [57] To a close approximation, Equ. 13 may be
further simplified to:
D^4
Pr = Pt.-------- (14)
R^2.Wl^2
A more conservative analysis for ground-based observatories, would take
into account atmospheric transmission losses, aperture blocking, and
spectrometer efficiency in the case of an incoherent receiver. For a
a ground-based telescope, the optical power reaching the photodetector
is given by:
Pr = Ir.Tr.Ae.Ar.SE (15)
where Ir = intensity just outside atmosphere (2.04 X 10^-11 W/m^2),
Tr = atmospheric transmission (0.4 for visible, 0.6 for CO2),
Ae = antenna efficiency (0.7),
Ar = antenna aperture area (0.0707 m^2),
SE = spectrometer efficiency (0.5).
For a 30-cm diameter (12-inch) visible telescope, and the above
parameter values (1 GW, 10 m transmitter, EIRP = 2.29 X 10^24 W,
Ir = 2.04 X 10^-11 W/m^2), the received visible signal:
Prv = 2 X 10^-13 W (-127 dBW)
For a 30-cm diameter (12-inch) CO2 telescope, and the above parameter
values (1 GW, 10 m transmitter, EIRP = 8.78 X 10^21 W,
Ir = 7.81 X 10^-14 W/m^2), the received infrared signal:
Pri = 1.2 X 10^-15 W (-149 dBW)
Daylight Background:
The sky background radiation power detected per pixel, is given by:
Pb = (PI.THETA^2.Ae.Ar.SE/4).Bo.N(Wl) W (16)
where THETA = diffraction limited beamwidth (5.34 X 10^-6 radians),
Bo = optical bandpass (0.143 nm),
N(Wl) = spectral radiance (W/m^2.sr.nm).
For the incoherent optical systems, the pixel has a diffraction limited
field-of-view (FOV) corresponding to the Airy disk, i.e., (2.44)Wl/d
radians, where Wl = wavelength, and d is the aperture diameter. For
coherent systems, a smaller FOV is employed; that corresponding to the
FWHM response, i.e., (1.02)Wl/d radians. The latter pixel size is
smaller because of the requirement to reduce the amount of local-
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 79
oscillator power that does not beat with the signal but only induces
excess quantum shot-noise.
At visible wavelengths:
N(Wl) = 0.01 W/cm^2.sr.micron [71]
= 0.1 W/m^2.sr.nm
N(f) = 1.43 X 10^-13 W/m^2.sr.Hz
The daytime sky background for a 30 cm (12") telescope at 656 nm (not
allowing for atmospheric distortion effects) with an optical bandpass
filter bandwidth Bo = 100 GHz (0.143 nm):
Pbv = 7.9 X 10^-15 W (-141 dBW)
The background is about 14 dB (Prv - Pbv) below the signal from the
1 GW transmitter which produces an EIRP = 2.29 X 10^24 W, and a flux of
2.04 X 10^-11 W/m^2 at a range of 10 light years. Thus, in this small
photon-counting receiver, the fluctuation noise from the daylight
background is 14 dB below that of the quantum shot-noise generated by
the signal. This has little effect on signal detectability. If a
polarizer is employed, Pb can be reduced by a further 3 dB. For a
perfect space-based 10 meter diameter visible telescope, the daylight
spectral density is about 4 X 10^-26 W/Hz (Figure 3, Page 17).
For infrared systems, the 300 K temperature of the atmosphere produces
a black body peak at approximately 10,600 nm, with a spectral radiance
given by:
N(Wl) = 0.0002 W/cm^2.sr.micron [71]
= 0.002 W/m^2.sr.nm
N(f) = 7.5 X 10^-13 W/m^2.sr.Hz
The sky background for a cooled 30 cm (12") telescope at 10,600 nm (not
allowing for atmospheric distortion effects) with a cooled 0.35 percent
optical bandpass filter bandwidth Bo = 100 GHz (37.5 nm):
Pbi = 1.1 X 10^-11 W (-110 dBW)
For an EIRP = 8.78 X 10^21 W and Ir = 7.81 X 10^-14 W/m^2, the
potential CO2 SNR is degraded by about 39 dB (Figure 6, Page 38)
because the background noise is 39 dB -(Pri - Pbi) above the quantum
shot noise. The infrared graph of Figure 6 is plotted to the same
scales as that of the Figure 8 (Page 44) visible graph, to make
comparisons easier, and the pages may be flicked back and forth to show
the differences more dramatically. We can clearly see that the
effective optical bandwidth must be substantially reduced if ETI signal
detectability at 10.6 microns is not to be impaired. Thus, only
heterodyning receivers, with effective optical bandwidths measured in
MHz and not GHz, are suitable for CO2 SETI within the atmosphere.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 80
Field Of View (FOV):
The relationship between the solid angle occupied by each star and the
area of the celestial sphere "occupied" by a typical star is:
A
OMEGAs = --- sr (17)
R^2
where A = area of the celestial sphere, i.e., 4.PI.R^2/N; N being the
number of stars being considered (10^6).
4.PI
OMEGAs = ---- sr (18)
N
Let us assume that sky survey is done out to a distance of 1,000 light
years. This means that we are searching the entire celestial sphere
around the Sun with a radius of 1,000 light years. This sphere of
4.PI steradians (sr), contains about 10 million stars of which
approximately 1 million are solar-type. Assuming that for a sphere of
this size, these 1 million stars are distributed fairly uniformly:
OMEGAs = 1.26 X 10^-5 steradian
For small angles, the solid angle FOV OMEGAs and the linear angle FOV
THETAs, are related by:
PI.THETAs^2
OMEGAs = ----------- sr (19)
4
THETAs = 0.23 degrees
Array Field Of View:
Figure 10 shows the typical field-of-view (FOV) for a 10-meter
diameter telescope. It has a usable Telescope Field-Of-View of about
0.33 X 0.33 degrees. At 656 nm, the diffraction limited FOV for each
pixel, and based on the Rayleigh criterion (1.22)Wl/d radians, is
8 X 10^-8 radians (0.0165"). For a 128 X 128 diffraction limited
two-dimensional array, the array has a linear field-of-view =
1.02 X 10^-5 radians (2.1"). The corresponding array FOV is:
FOV = 2.1" X 2.1"
Thus, at any instant of time, the average number of stars in the
2.1" X 2.1" array field-of-view is approximately:
6.4 X 10^-6
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 81
------------------------------
| |
| |
| |
| * |
| |
| |
| 2.1 arc seconds |
| -->o<-- |
| Array FOV |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| * 0.23 degrees * |
| <------------------> |
------------------------------
Telescope FOV = 0.33 degrees
<------------------------------>
Figure 10 -
Typical FOVs for a large optical telescope. The diagram (not to scale)
illustrates the fact that the optical telescope's array field-of-view
generally observes empty space; the array itself occupying just a small
fraction of the telescope's usable (focal plane) field-of-view.
Number Of Received Beams:
The number of directions resolved by a telescope (with a maximum off-
axis loss of 1 dB) is stated in the Cyclops report [5] as being given
approximately by:
Nd = 4.G (20)
where G = gain.
For a 10 meter diameter telescope at 656 nm, G = 2.3 X 10^15. Thus:
Nd = 9.2 X 10^15 beams
An alternative expression has been given [8] where Nd = G. In this
paper, for the purposes of roughly estimating the search time for an
All Sky Survey, Equ. 20 has been used. Nd has been taken as being
10^16 beams or directions.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 82
The Search Time
For the Targeted Search, the time to scan a single star with the
heterodyning array, is given by:
Inor.Npix.(fu-fl).Td
Ts = ---------------------- s (21)
Imin.Nmsca.Bmsca.Bbin
where Inor = normalized flux (8.12 X 10^-16 W/m^2),
Imin = minimum detectable flux (8.12 X 10^-16 W/m^2),
Npix = number of pixels (16,384 photodetectors),
Nmsca = number of parallel multi-channel spectrum analyzers
(MCSAs), {<= Npix} (1),
Bmsca = total bandwidth of MCSA (10 GHz),
Bbin = minimum MCSA bin bandwidth (100 kHz),
fu = upper optical frequency (8.57 X 10^14 Hz),
fl = lower optical frequency (4.29 X 10^14 Hz),
Td = dead time overhead factor per array scan (1.0).
The dead time overhead factor is >= 1, and for this estimate, has been
taken to be unity, i.e., implying zero overhead. The normalized flux
is defined as that flux level that causes the normalized CNR (SNR)
(dB re 1 Hz) to fall to 0 dB. Note that if the pilot-tone maximal
ratio predetection combining system described later is employed, the
number of pixels (Npix) is effectively reduced to unity. Also, the
number of receiver beams Nd is assumed relatively constant over the
band fu-fl. If we substitute the values given in parentheses into
Equ. (21), for the visible optical bandwidth between 350 nm and 700 nm,
and a minimum detectable flux level of about -150 dBW/m^2, we find
that:
Ts = 2 hours
The time to do an All Sky Survey of this type is increased by a factor
(10^16/16,384), so that Ts = 136 million years! If we wanted to store
all the data collected, the number of bits would be, to say the least,
astronomical. Clearly, we would need to be very selective in the wave-
lengths scanned. i.e., fu-fl would have to be very small, so that a
guess of the magic optical frequencies would be mandatory.
This rough optimistic search time estimate, shows that it would be
ridiculous to consider a Visible SETI All Sky Survey modelled on the
one being employed for the Microwave Observing Project (MOP). [40-45]
Optical Heterodyne Detection:
In an optical heterodyne receiver (Figure 2, Page 15), the signal
current I is proportional to the product of the signal electric field
and the local-oscillator electric field, and a difference or Inter-
mediate Frequency (I.F.) is produced because the photodetector is a
square-law device. [71-78,81-82] Let us see how this heterodyne beat
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 83
signal is created. Consider two optical beams mixing on a photodiode
(square-law detector). Let the beams be given by:
Received signal beam electric-field component = Er.cos(wrt+phi),
Local-oscillator beam electric-field component = Eo.coswot.
The photodetector current is given by:
I = k(Er+Eo)^2 (22)
where k = a constant of proportionality relating the current respon-
sivity of the photodetector (Ri) to the electric-field.
I = k[Er.cos(wrt+phi)+Eo.coswot]^2
I = kEr^2.cos2(wrt+phi)+2kEr.Eo.cos(wrt+phi).coswot+kEo^2.cos2wot
I = 0.5kEr^2[1+cos2(wrt+phi)]
+ kEr.Eo[cos{(wr-wo)t+phi}]+kEr.Eo[cos{(wr+wo)t+phi)}]
+ 0.5kEo^2[1+cos2wot]
Rejecting all but the difference frequency term,
I = kEr.Eo[cos{(wr-wo)t+phi}] (23)
where (wr-wo)/(2.PI) = fr-fo = Bif, is the difference, beat or
intermediate frequency.
Thus, the signal detected is proportional to the product of the
received signal and local-oscillator electric-fields. In an optical
homodyne receiver, wo = wr, and the intermediate frequency is zero.
The optical mixing efficiency factor H, which is not indicated here
(Equ. 32 and 33) and accounts for wavefront distortion and beam
misalignment, is typically somewhat less than 50 percent.
Pilot-Tone Maximal Ratio Predetection Combining:
The pilot-tone technique has been previously applied to radio frequency
diversity receivers to overcome deep fades. [84] It has also been
employed by the author on multimode fiber homodyne and heterodyne
systems with a 4-quadrant photodetector acting as an optical space
diversity receiver. [81,82] The spatial incoherence of the radiation
pattern from a multimode optical fiber is very similar to that of a
free-space optical beam received by a large telescope within an
atmosphere.
The theory behind the terrene pilot-tone method is as follows, and
makes no specific assumption about modulation techniques employed by
ETIs, i.e., whether intensity, polarization, frequency or phase
modulation, analog or digital. With reference to Figure 1 (Page 10):
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 84
Let the pilot-tone carrier at fp be given by:
Ep(t).sin[wpt+dphi] (24)
and the modulated information signal at fs be given by:
Es(t).sin[wst+phi(t)+dphi] (25)
where dphi = phase disturbance caused by the transmitter laser
(jitter) or Earth's atmosphere,
phi(t) = represents possible phase or frequency modulation.
The phase disturbances dphi, are essentially common to both the signal
and the pilot-tone, as they are almost identical optical frequencies
and travel the same optical path. However, dphi generally differs at
each photodetector.
-------
sin[(ws-wo)t+phi(t)+dphi]| | ----- cos[(ws-wp)t+phi(t)]
------------------------>| Mixer |-->| LPF |-------------------------->
1st I.F (1.1 GHz) | | ----- 2nd I.F (100 MHz)
-------
^ To Summer ------>
|
sin[(wp-wo)t+dphi] |
-----------------------------
2nd L.O. (1 GHz)
Figure 11 -
Maximal Ratio Precombining. The bandpass-filtered signal from each
photodetector provides two separately-filtered 1st I.F and 2nd L.O.
signals to an electronic mixer. The 2nd I.F. produced after the low-
pass filter (LPF), has all the laser local-oscillator and atmospheric-
induced phase noise dphi eliminated.
The frequencies given in brackets in Figure 11 are arbitrary, and used
to help clarify the technique. Each pixel of the 128 X 128 array has
one of these circuits, whose in-phase outputs are simply added (in a
summer) and taken to a single MCSA.
If we heterodyne a local-oscillator laser operating at frequency wo
with both these signals, we obtain the difference frequency signals or
1st I.F. from the photodetector proportional to:
Ep(t).Eo.sin[(wp-wo)t+dphi] (26)
Es(t).Eo.sin[(ws-wo)t+phi(t)+dphi] (27)
where dphi now also includes the effects of local-oscillator jitter.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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The pilot-tone signal as stated by Equ. (26), may be passed through a
narrow-band filter and amplifier, to produce what is effectively a
strong electrical second local oscillator (2nd L.O.) signal for an
electrical mixer. It may also be used to lock a narrow-band Phase
Locked Loop (PLL) whose Voltage Controlled Oscillator (VCO) is used as
the strong, amplitude-stable and clean 2nd local oscillator. The
information signal as stated by Equ. (27), may be passed through a
wideband filter and applied to the other port of this electrical mixer.
The 2nd I.F. output of the electrical mixer is proportional to:
Ep(t).Es(t).Eo(t)^2.cos[(ws-wp)t+phi(t)] (28)
The phase disturbances dphi introduced by the atmospheric turbulence
and laser jitters have been eliminated by the process of electrical
mixing. Thus, if the image of the transmitter is instantaneously or
sequentially smeared out over many pixels, all the second I.F. contri-
butions are in phase, and may be simply summed to provide predetection
diversity combining and a substantial reduction in amplitude
instability (scintillation).
It also provides the best type of predetection summation in the form of
Maximal-Ratio Combining. Although the system appears to implement
Equal-Gain Combining, the effect of the electronic mixer is to cause
the weakest signals to be automatically weighted downwards, and hence
cause Maximal Ratio Combining of the photodetector signals. Those
pixels producing the weakest signal also produce the lowest quantum,
Planckian or background noise contributions to the input of the
electrical mixer, so that the summed electrical signal power is not
degraded by noise from pixels with little or no optical signal. This
occurs because when no optical signal is present, the noise output of
each electronic mixer is essentially that due to a noise^2 term, and
hence is very small. Only a single MCSA would be required, which would
be effectively continuously "looking" at the combined outputs of all
16,384 pixels. We would have only one MCSA, but 16,384 electronic
front-end systems for predetection combining of the photodetector
outputs, based on the mixing technique illustrated in Figure 11.
A predetection combining system with a single MCSA would not detect
directly any Planckian starlight noise from a star in the array field-
of-view alone, only that which overlapped and mixed (downconverted)
with an ETI signal on one or more pixels. However, for nearby stars
where the transmitter and star are separately resolved, we would lose
any Planckian suppression effect of a (single pixel) diffraction
limited telescope. Also, if there are significant interstellar or
atmospheric group-delay dispersion effects between the signal and
pilot-tone, the technique would not work. This consideration may
affect the choice for the value of (fs-fp) and may itself limit
modulation bandwidth to be less than a few GHz, notwithstanding SNR
considerations. Of course, to use this technique will require the
cooperation of the ETI.
Would they be so obliging? It would be difficult to justify building
such a receiving signal processing system without foreknowledge that
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 86
ETIs employ this technique - this could be said to be putting the cart
before the horse! Anyway, before implementing such a system, assuming
ETIs would use such a modulation format, we would have had to
previously detect this modulation format to know what electrical
filters to use!
Radio Frequency Signal-To-Noise Ratio:
The Carrier-To-Noise Ratio (CNR) in the Microwave Heterodyne [5,8,85]
100-meter diameter, 1 kW dish system operating at 1.5 GHz over a range
of 10 light years:
Pr
CNR = ---- (29)
kTBe
where Pr = received power (1.72 X 10^-22 W),
T = effective system temperature (10 K),
Be = electrical intermediate frequency bandwidth (1 Hz).
CNR = 1 dB
A symmetrical Cyclops array system [5] with 900 such dishes at both the
transmitter and receiver would have a CNR = 60 dB.
Optical Signal-To-Noise Ratio:
The dimensions of all signal and noise components the following optical
expressions are in units of amperes^2, and by multiplying by the
photodetector load impedance, may be turned into units of power. The
numerators are representative of the electrical signal power in the
photodetector load, while the denominators represents the electrical
noise power in the photodetector load. [71-78]
For coherent receivers, dual-balanced photodetection is assumed so that
all the received signal power is utilized, and the noise floor is not
raised by excess intensity noise on the local-oscillator laser. It is
further assumed that the linewidths of the received signal and local-
oscillator laser are sufficiently small compared to the modulation
bandwidths, as to not raise the noise floor.
The effective system noise temperature of an optical receiver may be
expressed in the form:
h.f
Teff = ----- K (30)
eta.k
where h = Planck's constant (6.63 X 10^-34 J.s),
f = frequency (4.57 X 10^14 Hz).
Teff = 43,900 K
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 87
Incoherent Signal-To-Noise Ratio:
Direct Detection and Photon-Counting
Pr^2(MRi)^2
SNR = -------------------------------------------------------------- (31)
[2e{Ri(Pr+NbBo)+Ib}M^(2+x)+2eIs+2Nb{Pr+NbBo}(MRi)^2+4kTF/RL]Be
where Pr = received optical power (W),
Po = local oscillator power (W),
M = avalanche gain,
eta = photodetector quantum efficiency (0.5),
Ri = unity gain responsivity (W/A),
e = electronic charge (1.6 X 10^-19 C),
Nb = background radiation spectral density (W/Hz),
Ib = bulk dark current at unity gain (A),
Is = surface dark current (A),
x = excess noise factor,
k = Boltzmann's constant (1.38 X 10^-23 J/K),
T = front-end amplifier temperature (K),
F = front-end amplifier noise figure,
RL = front-end load (Ohms),
Bo = optical pre-detection bandwidth (Hz),
Be = noise equivalent electrical bandwidth, which for a single-
pole filter = PI/2 x maximum modulation frequency (Hz).
The electrical signal power is proportional to Pr^2, and the noise
components proportional:
1. To the quantum noise produced by the signal photons.
2. To the fluctuation noise produced by the background radiation Pb
(NbBo). Notice that this noise is proportional to the optical
bandwidth, and the ratio of this noise to the quantum noise
component is inversely proportional to the received optical power.
3. To the shot noise produced by the bulk dark current in the photo-
detector.
4. To the shot noise produced by the surface leakage dark current.
5. To the background radiation beating with the signal, which is
independent of optical bandwidth. The noise spectral density is
the important factor here.
6. To the noise beating with noise, which is proportional to both the
noise spectral density squared and the optical bandwidth. The
latter two noise components are insignificant and may be safely
omitted for this application where the background is very small.
7. To the thermal kT noise in the photodetector load and front-end
amplifier, and may be neglected for shot noise limited direct
detection receivers, and ideal photon-counting receivers.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 88
The total noise produced is proportional to the electrical post-
detection bandwidth Be. To an approximation at high avalanche gain,
the surface dark current component Is, which is not subject to gain,
is sometimes ignored, and Ib is called Id.
Coherent Signal-To-Noise Ratio:
Heterodyne Detection (Reception)
HPrPo(MRi)^2
CNR = ---------------------------------------------------------------- (32)
[e{Ri(Pr+Po+NbBo)+Ib}M^(2+x)+eIs+2Nb{HPo+NbBo}(MRi)^2+2kTF/RL]Be
Homodyne Detection
2HPrPo(MRi)^2
CNR = ---------------------------------------------------------------- (33)
[e{Ri(Pr+Po+NbBo)+Ib}M^(2+x)+eIs+2Nb{HPo+NbBo}(MRi)^2+2kTF/RL]Be
The electrical signal power is proportional to Pr and the optical
mixing efficiency H, and the noise components proportional:
1. To the quantum noise produced by the signal photons.
2. To the shot noise produced by the local oscillator.
3. To the fluctuation noise produced by the background radiation Pb
(NbBo). This noise is also proportional to the optical bandwidth
and its ratio to the quantum shot noise is effectively inversely
proportional to the local oscillator power Po.
4. To the shot noise produced by the bulk dark current in the photo-
detector.
5. To the shot noise produced by the surface leakage dark current.
6. To the background radiation beating with the local oscillator,
which is very small, the noise being proportional to the noise
spectral density and independent of optical bandwidth.
7. To the background noise spectral density squared, which is again
very small, the noise being proportional to the optical bandwidth.
8. To the thermal kT noise of the optical front-end, which like the
case for all other noise components except that due to the local-
oscillator quantum shot-noise, is negligible for sufficient local-
oscillator power.
The local-oscillator (L.O.) is assumed to have negligible excess
intensity noise or it is balanced out, so that the Relative Intensity
Noise (RIN) is at the theoretical quantum noise level.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 89
Note, the excess noise due to a non-Poisson distribution of arriving
photons in a power-starved situation, is not included in this expres-
sion. Poisson statistics imply that sufficient photons arrive during
the observation time to take the probability of the arrival of a photon
as being given by a binomial distribution. [83] In situations where
the optical receiver is power-starved, i.e., when there are relatively
few photons arriving during the signal integration time so that Bose-
Einstein [73] statistics apply, the non-white noise associated with
statistics of the photon arrival times will lower the effective CNR.
The total noise produced is again proportional to the electrical post-
optical detection bandwidth Be. Usually Po >> Pr and Pb, and thus
other multiplicative noise components relating to Pr and Pb are not
included in these expressions, since they are negligible. For this
application the nearest star is several light years away, Po is much
larger the background Pb, and the latter component is also negligible
for all optical bandwidths, unlike the case for incoherent detection.
This is also generally true for large diffraction limited telescopes
operating in daylight. For SETI to be practical, the EIRP needs to be
extremely high, but since the star is distant, the background Nb is
very small. However, for communications within the solar system, these
background noise components (from the Sun or reflected light from Earth
or another planet) can be significant. [94-95]
For the Amateur Optical SETI analysis, a more conservative approach for
assessing the performance of various receiving systems has been
employed. Account has been made for the efficiencies of atmospheric
transmission, telescope aperture, monochromator (incoherent systems
only) and in the case of coherent receivers, an allowance for the
optical (heterodyne or homodyne) mixing efficiency.
Expression (31) relates to incoherent detection, while (32) and (33)
relate to coherent detection. The ideal shot-noise limited direct
detection receiver approaches the performance of the photon-counting
receiver at higher received powers. For substantially cooled photon-
counting receivers, the dark currents Is and Ib may be taken as zero,
and thermal noise is insignificant. In the quantum noise limit, the
CNR of the homodyne system is 3 dB more than the heterodyne, which is
itself 3 dB more than the direct detection or photon-counting receiver.
Quantum-Noise Limited Signal-To-Noise Ratio:
The Carrier-To-Noise Ratio in a perfect quantum noise limited (656 nm)
optical heterodyne system where the L.O. has negligible intensity and
phase noise, and where the shot noise from the L.O. swamps all other
sources of noise, is given by:
eta.Pr
CNR = ------ (34)
hfBif
where Pr = received optical power (1.6 nW),
Bif = Intermediate Frequency bandwidth (30 MHz).
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 90
One of the major advantages of using the normalized CNR approach is
that we can express the CNR for the perfect diffraction-limited
ten meter diameter symmetrical heterodyne system, for any transmitter
power, range and electrical bandwidth, in the form:
------------------------------------------------------
| |
| CNR = 54 + 10.log(Pt) - 20.log(R) - 10.log(Be) dB | (35)
| |
------------------------------------------------------
where Pt = transmitter power (kW),
R = range (L.Y.),
Be = I.F. bandwidth (Hz).
For Pt = 1 GW, R = 10 L.Y., and Be = Bif = 30 MHz:
CNR = 19 dB
Again, it should be remembered that this relationship (Equ. 35) only
holds out to distances where interstellar attenuation is insignificant,
and will over-estimate the CNR at very low received optical powers (Pr)
and/or higher bandwidths (Be). For a huge transmitting array, the
Rayleigh near-field range may be so large (Equ. 7), that the 20.log(R)
term disappears from the above expression, and the 54 dB constant has
a higher value.
We see that one advantage of coherent detection for this application is
that the effective bandwidth determining the relative level of detected
background noise is the electrical bandwidth Be, not the optical
bandwidth Bo. Since Be can be much less than Bo, coherent receivers
have a considerable sensitivity advantage over incoherent receivers in
the presence of weak signals and/or significant background radiation,
besides being able to allow for the demodulation of phase or frequency-
modulated signals. In the case of the heterodyne receiver, Be
corresponds to the I.F. bandwidth, and the signal has still to be
demodulated. A further stage of "detection", either square-law or
synchronous, must be applied to demodulate the intelligence on the
signal. For this reason, the signal-to-noise ratio for the radio
frequency heterodyne and optical heterodyne systems is denoted as CNR
and not SNR.
Signal Integration:
In practically all SETI systems, what is being looked for is an ETI
beacon. In such systems, the sensitivity of the receiver is enhanced
by post-detection signal integration, perhaps over many seconds. This
increases the detected signal level, and reduces the noise level; both
at the expense of increasing the search time. This can only be done
for detecting the presence of a signal beacon, not for the demodulation
of a continuously and rapidly changing non-repetitive signal.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 91
In the case of a microwave or optical receiver with square law
detection and an input SNR less than unity, the Signal-To-Noise Ratio
can be increased by (post-detection) integration of a number of
detected pulses over a period of time. In such a situation, the SNR is
proportional to the square-root of (Nc), where Nc is the total pulse
count during the observation integration time. [83,88] The same
relationship applies to the post-detection counting of individual
photons, but not to pre-detection. That is why the quantum limited
CNRs (SNRs) for both incoherent and coherent optical detection systems
are proportional to the photon count rate. See Equ. 36 below.
Photon-Count Rate:
The equivalent photon-count rate for the heterodyne receiver is given
by:
eta.Pr
Nph = ------ s^-1 (36)
hf
Alternatively, this can be expressed as CNR.(Bif). For the 1 GW
transmitter that results in a CNR = 19 dB re 30 MHz:
Nph = 2.64 X 10^9 s^-1
This count rate is more than adequate for the photon arrival (and
detection) statistics to be taken as Gaussian (Poisson), and hence the
CNR expressions should give an accurate figure for the Carrier-To-Noise
Ratio. This is reasonably true even for the 1 kW transmitter, where
on average, only 5,280 photons arrive per second, of which on average,
2,640 photons are detected every second. However, the method of
expressing CNRs in this analysis, even in the power-starved case,
allows for a simple linear extrapolation for CNR at any received
optical power (Equ. 35).
Bit Error Rate (BER):
This analysis has concentrated on optical signal detectability in terms
of SNR not Bit Error Rate (BER), as would be applicable for a digital
system. For the sake of completeness, the following expression may be
used to predict the photon-count rate for a required BER: [78]
-ln(2.BER)
m = ---------- (37)
log N
2
where m = average number of photons per bit required by an ideal N-PPM
(pulse position modulation) system to achieve a given BER.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 92
The photon-count rate is simply the product of m and the bit rate. For
an ideal coherent system with on-off keying (OOK) or 1-PPM,
BER = 10^-9, and very small extinction (light off/light on) ratio,
m = 10 photons/bit. However, a more realistic value is nearer to
20 photons/bit. Thus, for a 1 GHz (approx. 1 GBit/s) channel:
Minimum Photon-Count Rate = 2 X 10^10 s^-1
The modelled 1 GW system is a little deficient in being able to achieve
this goal, since this required count rate is an order of magnitude
greater than the calculated value of Nph. With digital compression
techniques, the 1 GW transmitter is capable of supporting a late
Twentieth Century digital HDTV signal, compressed into a 10 MHz
bandwidth. [87]
Range Equation:
Instead of expressing the CNR as a function of transmitter power,
range and bandwidth, we can express the quality of the optical
communications link in terms of its maximum range. As before, if we
ignore interstellar absorption, the range (in light years) required to
reduce the quantum limited CNR to 0 dB for the "perfect" 10-meter
diameter 656 nm symmetrical Professional Optical SETI system defined by
Equ. 35, can be express in the form:
Rmax = 10^[{54 + 10.log(Pt) - 10.log(Be)}/20] (38)
where Pt = transmitter power (kW),
Be = I.F. bandwidth (Hz).
For Pt = 1 GW (EIRP = 2.29 X 10^24 W) and Be = 1 MHz:
Rmax = 500 L.Y.
Doppler Shift:
The maximum Doppler Shift is given by:
v
df = -.f Hz (39)
c
where v = maximum line-of-sight velocity (29.8 km/s),
c = velocity of light (3 X 10^8 m/s),
f = frequency (4.57 X 10^14 Hz).
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 93
For a ground-based receiving telescope, the maximum local Doppler Shift
at 656 nm due to the orbit of Earth around the Sun:
df = +/- 45.5 GHz
Doppler Drift:
The maximum Doppler Drift (Chirp) is given by:
w^2.r
df' = -----.f Hz/s (40)
c
where w = angular velocity (7.27 X 10^-5 rad/s),
r = radius of planet or orbit (6,378 km).
For a receiving telescope on the equator, the maximum local Doppler
Drift at 656 nm due to Earth's rotation is:
df' = +/- 51 kHz/s
Fortunately, for Amateur Optical SETI observations, the Doppler Drift
during reasonable observations times is insignificant with respect to
the bandpass of the incoherent optical filter (approximately 100 GHz).
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 94
APPENDIX B
THE SETI PROTOCOLS
The following information was provided by Robert Arnold of the SETI
Institute.
November 20, 1991
Dear Colleague,
It is my pleasure to send you a copy of a document entitled
"Declaration of Principles Concerning Activities Following the
Detection of Extraterrestrial Intelligence."
The Declaration was developed over a period of several years by the
SETI Committee of the International Academy of Astronautics, with the
assistance of many experts interested in this question. In April of
1989 it was approved by the Board of Trustees of the Academy, and also
by the Board of Directors of the International Institute of Space Law.
Over the last two years it has been endorsed by the Committee on Space
Research, by Commission 51 of the International Astronomical Union, by
the members of Commission J of the Union Radio Scientifique
Internationale, and by the International Astronautical Federation.
The document is intended as a series of guidelines for individuals or
organizations, national or international, engaged in carrying out radio
searches for extraterrestrial intelligence. In the near future it will
be sent by the Academy to all such individuals and organizations with a
request that they give consideration to endorsing it.
In the meantime, the SETI Committee of the International Academy of
Astronautics will continue to review the principles and procedures of
the Declaration, and will assemble a special post-detection committee,
as indicated in Principle 9 of the document. The Committee is also
working on a second declaration, designed to expand the wording of
Principle 8 into a process for obtaining international agreement on
questions about a reply from Earth after the detection of a signal.
Sincerely,
John Billingham
Chief, SETI Office
Enclosure:
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 95
Declaration of Principles Concerning Activities Following the Detection
of Extraterrestrial Intelligence -
We, the institutions and individuals participating in the search for
extraterrestrial intelligence,
Recognizing that the search for extraterrestrial intelligence is an
integral part of space exploration and is being undertaken for peaceful
purposes and for the common interest of all mankind,
Inspired by the profound significance for mankind of detecting evidence
of extraterrestrial intelligence, even though the probability of
detection may be low,
Recalling the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States
in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other
Celestial Bodies, which commits States Parties to that Treaty "to
inform the Secretary General of the United Nations as well as the
public and the international scientific community, to the greatest
extent feasible and practicable, of the, nature, conduct, locations and
results" of their space exploration activities (Article XI),
Recognizing that any initial detection may be incomplete or ambiguous
and thus require careful examination as well as confirmation, and that
it is essential to maintain the highest standards of scientific
responsibility and credibility,
Agree to observe the following principles for disseminating information
about the detection of extraterrestrial intelligence:
1. Any individual, public or private research institution, or
governmental agency that believes it has detected a signal from or
other evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence (the discoverer)
should seek to verify that the most plausible explanation for the
evidence is the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence rather
than some other natural phenomenon or anthropogenic phenomenon
before making any public announcement. If the evidence cannot be
confirmed as indicating the existence of extraterrestrial
intelligence, the discoverer may disseminate the information as
appropriate to the discovery of any unknown phenomenon.
2. Prior to making a public announcement that evidence of extra-
terrestrial intelligence has been detected, the discoverer should
promptly inform all other observers or research organizations that
are parties to this declaration, so that those other parties may
seek to confirm the discovery by independent observations at other
sites and so that a network can be established to enable continuous
monitoring of the signal or phenomenon. Parties to this
declaration should not make any public announcement of this
information until it is determined whether this information is or
is not credible evidence of the existence of extraterrestrial
intelligence. The discoverer should inform his/her or its relevant
national authorities.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 96
3. After concluding that the discovery appears to be credible evidence
of extraterrestrial intelligence, and after informing other parties
to this declaration, the discoverer should inform observers
throughout the world through the Central Bureau for Astronomical
Telegrams of the International Astronomical Union, and should
inform the Secretary General of the United Nations in accordance
with Article XI of the Treaty on Principles Governing the
Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space,
Including the Moon and Other Bodies. Because of their demonstrated
interest in and expertise concerning the question of the existence
of extraterrestrial intelligence, the discoverer should
simultaneously inform the following international institutions of
the discovery and should provide them with all pertinent data and
recorded information concerning the evidence: the International
Telecommunication Union, the Committee on Space Research, of the
International Council of Scientific Unions, the International
Astronautical Federation, the International Academy of
Astronautics, the International Institute of Space Law, Commission
51 of the International Astronomical Union and Commission J of the
International Radio Science Union.
4. A confirmed detection of extraterrestrial intelligence should be
disseminated promptly, openly, and widely through scientific
channels and public media, observing the procedures in this
declaration. The discoverer should have the privilege of making
the first public announcement.
5. All data necessary for confirmation of detection should be made
available to the international scientific community through
publications, meetings, conferences, and other appropriate means.
6. The discovery should be confirmed and monitored and any data
bearing on the evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence should be
recorded and stored permanently to the greatest extent feasible and
practicable, in a form that will make it available for further
analysis and interpretation. These recordings should be made
available to the international institutions listed above and to
members of the scientific community for further objective analysis
and interpretation.
7. If the evidence of detection is in the form of electromagnetic
signals, the parties to this declaration should seek international
agreement to protect the appropriate frequencies by exercising
procedures available through the International Telecommunication
Union. Immediate notice should be sent to the Secretary General of
the ITU in Geneva, who may include a request to minimize trans-
missions on the relevant frequencies in the Weekly Circular. The
Secretariat, in conjunction with advice of the Union's Admini-
strative Council, should explore the feasibility and utility of
convening an Extraordinary Administrative Radio Conference to deal
with the matter, subject to the opinions of the member Admini-
strations of the ITU.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 97
8. No response to a signal or other evidence of extraterrestrial
intelligence should be sent until appropriate international
consultations have taken place. The procedures for such
consultations will be the subject of a separate agreement,
declaration or arrangement.
9. The SETI Committee of the International Academy of Astronautics, in
coordination with Commission 51 of the International Astronomical
Union, will conduct a continuing review of procedures for the
detection of extraterrestrial intelligence and the subsequent
handling of the data. Should credible evidence of extraterrestrial
intelligence be discovered, an international committee of
scientists and other experts should be established to serve as a
focal point for continuing analysis of all observational evidence
collected in the aftermath of the discovery, and also to provide
advice on the release of information to the public. This committee
should be constituted from representatives of each of the
international institutions listed above and such other members as
the committee may deem necessary. To facilitate the convocation of
such a committee at some unknown time in the future, the SETI
Committee of the International Academy of Astronautics should
initiate and maintain a current list of willing representatives
from each of the international institutions listed above, as well
as other individuals with relevant skills, and should make that
list continuously available through the Secretariat of the
International Academy of Astronautics. The International Academy
of Astronautics will act as the Depository for this declaration and
will annually provide a current list of parties to all the parties
to this declaration.
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 98
INDEX
A Adaptive 17,20,24,39,43,52,58
Airy Disk 47,78
All Sky Survey 4,31,33-34,82-83
Alpha Centauri 54
Amateur Optical SETI 5-6,8,16,25,37,42,45-48,51-52,54,
60-61,90,92
Ames Research Center (ARC) 3,11,19
Arecibo 11,16,20,27-28,36
Asimov, Isaac 25
Assumption of Ineptitude 13,58
Assumption of Mediocrity 13
Avalanche Photodetector (APD) 7,42,44,48-50
B Beacon 10,28,39,52,55,90
BETA 4
Betz, Albert 5,7,9,13,20,35-37,55,61,78
Big Ear Radio Observatory 7,40
Billingham, John 5,94
Bit Error Rate (BER) 41,91
Bose-Einstein 89
Bova, Ben 3
Bulletin Board System (BBS) 6
C Carbon Dioxide Laser (CO2) 5,13,20,29,35-38,55,61,78-79
Carrier-To-Noise Ratio (CNR) 15-17,24,26-28,33-34,36,41,43,50,
82,86,88-91
Challenger 59
Charge Coupled Device (CCD) 42,46-51
Clarke, Arthur C. 8,41,57-58
Cold Fusion 2
Columbus Telescope 40
Coherence Cell 11,18
Coherent 14-15,18,20,26,37,40,42,46,49,
60-61,78,86,88-91
Contact 1-3,27,40,56-57,63
Cosmic Catastrophes 57
Cosmic Haystack 4,32,43
Cosmic Zoo 2,62
Cullers, Kent 3,8,54
Cyclops 7,18,19-20,23,26-27,54,58,81,86
D Dark Current 38,46,49,87-89
Daylight (Optical SETI) 20,26,36,42-43,45-47,54,58,79,89
Deep Space Network (DSN) 11
Directivity 36,75
Direct Detection 18,25,36-37,40,42-46,51,60-61,78,
87,89-90
Discovery 58
Dixon, Robert 4,7,40
Doppler Drift (Chirp) 11,14,16,22,24,32-33,46,56,93
Doppler Shift 11,22,24,32,35,46,56,92-93
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
Page 99
Drake Equation 71
Drake, Frank 3,9,71
E Effective Noise Temperature 15,86
EIRP 17,19,21-22,28,37-38,41,43-46,60,
72,77-79
Epsilon Eradani 54
F Fabry-Perot 45
Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) 4,34,48
Fermi's Paradox 1
Field-Of-View (FOV) 31,36-37,47,56,78,80-81,85
Fraunhofer 4,17,23,25-26,30-31,34-35,43,46,
59,73
Free Electron Laser 21,29
G Gaussian Beams 73-75
H Heliographs 9
Heterodyne 4,14-18,20,22-23,25,35,37,42,45,
49-50,56,82-84,86,88-91
Homodyne 14,49,83,88-89
Horowitz, Paul 4
Hubble Space Telescope (HST) 13,20
I Image Intensifier 42,46
Incoherent Detection 18,25,36-37,40,42-46,51,60-61,78,
87,89-90
Interferometer 5,8,37,40,55
J Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) 11
K Karhunen-Loeve Transform (KLT) 4,60
Kraus, John 40
L Light Pollution 26,60
Local-Oscillator (L.O.) 5,11,14-15,20,29,31,33-34,37,44,
48,56,79,82-88
M Magic Wavelength (or Frequency) 3,9,20,26,29,45,57,82
Magnitude (Intensity) 21-24,28,41,43-46,53-54,72
Microchannel Plate 46
Microwave Observing Project (MOP) 4-5,8,13,31,40,52-54,57-59,82
Monochromator 42,45,47-48,50-51,54,60,89
Morrison, Philip 3,7,9,13
MultiChannel Spect. Analy. (MCSA) 14,33-36,52,82,84-85
N NASA 3-5,7,9,11,19,27,35,38,45,58,
61-62
Neodymium YAG Laser (Nd:YAG) 18,21,27,29
Noise Equivalent Bandwidth 87
O Oliver, Bernard 3,7,9,21,31
Optoelectronics 19
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
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P Perkins Telescope 40,46
Photomultiplier (PM) 42,48-50
Photon-Counting 16,18,37,42,44-46,49,51,60,79,
87,89
Photon Count Rate 91
Photonics 19,62
Pilot-Tone 10-11,20,39,82-85
Planckian 17,20,22-23,25-28,39,42-44,46,49,
56,73,76,85
Planetary Report 4
Poisson Counting 15-16,89,91
Polar Response 75-76
Prime Directive 56
Professional Optical SETI 4,8,14,16,40,46,59-61
Project Ozma 9,54
Q Quantum (Shot) Noise 14-17,25-26,28,37,43,79,85,87-89
R Range Equation 92
Rather, John 7,9,21,75
Rayleigh Range 24,74-75,90
Rayleigh Resolution 80
Rayleigh Scattering 39,59
Rosetta Stone 10
S Sagan, Carl 3
Semaphores 9
Serendip 22,26,39-40,59
SETI Institute 3,5,7,12,31,54,58,62,71
SETI Protocols 63,94
Signal-To-Noise Ratio (SNR) 6,11,16,20-26,34,36-38,43-46,48,
49,59,79,85,86-91
Space Odyssey (2001 and 2010) 58
Spectrometer 36,38,44-45,47,49,51,55,78
Spielberg, Steven 4
Star Trek 62
Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) 14
Symbiotic 22,26,39-40,59
T Targeted Search 11-12,31,33-34,46,52-54,82
Tarter, Jill 8,25,54,61
Tau Ceti 54
Thermal Noise 14,87-89
Tipler, Frank 1,56-57
Townes, Charles 5,7,9,13,20,35-37,55,61,63
Type I, II, and III Civilizations 2-3
U Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) 1-2,63
V Von Neumann 1-2,32,56
W Waterhole 3,32
Z Zuckerman, Ben 9,20
EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6, January 1992
ADDENDUM 1
>From Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley, the author of the six-part EJASA article
(Volume 3, Number 6, January 1992) on Optical SETI.
The Optical SETI article was placed on the network on Monday, January 27,
1992, and posted to the newsgroups; sci.space, sci.astro, sci.space.news,
sci.misc and rec.arts.sf.science. For those who use a keyword search of the
subject headers and may not have realized that the EJASA article was devoted
to Optical SETI, the list below gives the message numbers for the posting on
sci.space and sci.astro.
FILE NAME MESSAGE NUMBERS
SCI.SPACE SCI.ASTRO
READ.ME Details about printing out the article 30085 16040
EJASAV3.N6A EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part A 30088 16041
EJASAV3.N6B EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part B 30090 16042
EJASAV3.N6C EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part C 30099 16045
EJASAV3.N6D EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part D 30101 16046
EJASAV3.N6E EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part E 30105 16049
EJASAV3.N6F EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Part F 30110 16051
Readers should note that a couple of years ago, a technique was described in
the scientific literature of how to improved on the diffraction-limited
performance of (relatively small) optical telescopes, so that for
transmitters, the far-field inverse square law doesn't apply. The very idea
of transmitting beams smaller than the life zones of nearby star systems is
a major hurdle in itself to the general acceptance of the efficacy of
Optical SETI. Thus, the discussion of this Bessel technique was purposely
avoided in the EJASA paper, but will likely be described at a later date.
By a strange coincidence, on the day following this posting (Tuesday,
January 28, 1992), what should come through my mailbox but the Newsletter of
SPIE's (Society of Photo-Optical Instrumentation Engineers) International
Technical Working Group on Laser Communications (ILCS). The January 1992
issue was devoted to a profile and interview with a Dr. Monte Ross, with
some discussion given to Optical SETI. He used to work for McDonnell
Douglas and is now President of Laser Data Technology, Inc., which is
located in St. Louis, Missouri.
I have since had a phone conversation with Dr. Ross, who is the author of
one of the first optoelectronics books published in the 1960's. Unlike
Dr. Bernard Oliver of NASA's SETI Office, who also wrote some of the first
papers on optoelectronics back in the early 1960's on his own and in
conjunction with Professor Charles Townes, and did not agree with the
Optical SETI ideas of the latter, Dr. Ross is a strong believer in the
efficacy of lasers for interstellar communications. I often consulted
Dr. Ross's book (from the library at University College London) while doing
my Ph.D. research in the early 1970's. In those days, the information I
needed for my work on the first single-mode fiber-optic Mach-Zehnder
heterodyning interferometer (fiber-optic data highway) was based on prior
work done with free-space optical heterodyning communication systems. The
Mach-Zehnder work paved the way for pioneering work by University College
London on fiber-optic sensing. It is perhaps slightly ironic that the wheel
may be turning full circle for me in that my professional activities are
returning to free-space optical communications.
Dr. Ross conjectures the use of pulsed transmissions by ETIs, perhaps of
about 1 ns duration, to get the high peak EIRP's required to allow
incoherent light-bucket photon-counters to be employed. The SPIE article
ends by remarking that Dr. Ross would like to see some engineering society
or foundation put together a study to define a specific plan and program. I
concur with that thought, though I believe that the EJASA article already
accomplishes some of this. I would like to see an Optical SETI Foundation
set up, and am working to achieve this end. The EJASA article was just one
of many actions on my part required to establish a sufficiently large
constituency to make this goal achievable. The setting up of a computer
bulletin board system (BBS) devoted to Optical SETI was another. I intend
to make a major contribution to forming The Optical SETI Institute (TOSI),
or whatever it is eventually called, which would operate either as part of
the SETI Institute or as a separate entity. I would like to hear from
anyone who could offer expertise in areas related to Optical SETI, either
from a technical viewpoint or for getting such a foundation up and running.
Dr. Ross is sending me copies of his papers on Optical SETI that were
published in the 1980's, some of which I gather were published in the
British Journal of Interplanetary Science (?). After I have received copies
of Dr. Ross's papers, I will issue ADDENDUM.2 containing the citations for
these references, and some brief comments. I did not conduct an extensive
independent literature review for all papers relating to Optical SETI,
because it was thought that between my contacts with the few people actively
involved in this field and particularly with the SETI Institute, I would
have picked up all relevant material.
This just goes to demonstrate how compartmentalized are the fields of
science. During out phone conversation, Monte Ross informed me that he had
no contact with the SETI Institute and NASA, and preferred to work outside
established SETI channels. I have chosen to work within existing SETI
organizations to try and establish a constituency for Optical SETI. Indeed,
since the network postings of the EJASA article last week, I have been
mailing floppy disks with the article to selected scientists, engineers and
politicians in the United States and the United Kingdom.
So often, we find that radio astronomers don't talk to optical astronomers
who don't talk to communication engineers. Scientists and engineers have a
tendency to search and read only the literature in the main-stream of their
own professional activities (these days a difficult and time-consuming task
by itself). It is when engineers and scientist step outside their normal
areas of specialty and consider the application of their technology to other
branches of science, that the "connection" is made that often leads to the
development of an exciting new endeavor. If professional optical
astronomers have been negligent in not seeing the potential for Optical SETI
and have allowed microwave communication scientists/engineers to dominate
SETI, it probably is because the former are more concerned with wide optical
bandwidths and integrating detected photons, while Optical SETI communi-
cation scientists/engineers would be more concerned with very narrow optical
bandwidths (compared to that of the visible and infrared spectrum) and
wideband modulation (compared to normal radio frequency modulation
bandwidths).
This has taught me the dangers of assuming that the "experts" know all about
what is going on in the world in their particular field. The moral of the
story is "Don't leave literature searches to others"! It is less likely
that I have missed any extensive Optical SETI observations that were not
reported in the EJASA. Somehow I don't think that the SETI Institute would
have missed out on that one! But on the other hand . . . If you know of
anyone conducting professional/semi-professional or amateur Optical SETI
observations not mentioned in the EJASA article or people who have written
theoretical papers on the subject, please let me know.
Presently, I have 127 registered users on my BBS, though only a fraction of
them have registered because of their specific interest in Optical SETI.
Saturday (yesterday) was a quiet day. Since the early hours of this Sunday
morning (it is now 9.45 am), I have obtained four new users, the majority
from out of state. Clearly, the message has gotten out over the network,
and some people have been busy printing out and digesting the EJASA article
over this weekend.
>From time to time I will issue further Optical SETI addendums to keep
readers up to date on progress in this field. Keep an eye on newsgroups
sci.space and sci.astro for these postings.
February 2, 1992
File: ADDENDUM.001
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley *
* Consultant *
* AMIEE, SMIEEE, *
* The Planetary Society, *
* Space Studies Institute, *
* Columbus Astronomical Society, *
* Volunteer, SETI Group, Ohio State. *
* *
* "Where No Photon Has Gone Before & *
* The Impossible Takes A Little Longer" *
* __________ *
* FIBERDYNE OPTOELECTRONICS / \ *
* 545 Northview Drive --- hf >> kT --- *
* Columbus, Ohio 43209 \__________/ *
* United States *
* Tel/Fax: (614) 258-7402 .. .. .. .. .. *
* Manual Fax Tone Access Code: 33 . . . . . . . . . . *
* Bulletin Board System (BBS): .. .. .. .. *
* Modem: (614) 258-1710, *
* 300/1200/2400/4800/9600 Baud, MNP, 8N1. *
* Email: skingsle@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu *
* CompuServe: 72376,3545 *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
----- End Included Message -----
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb
From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Catalog of Humanoid Reports
Message-ID: <9202142309.AA28342@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Date: 14 Feb 92 23:09:15 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Lines: 329
My apologies if this has been here before. I wouldn't know as I can not
receive this newsgrope (no sp error here ;^})!
Len
--- Begin included text ------------------------------------------------
Message #7291 - MUFONET
Date : 02-Sep-91 23:35
From : Jacques Poulet
To : All
Subject : Just a theory! 1 of 4
Aliens are gods?
Many people seems to beleive our visitors are Gods! By
definition, to be god-like entities, they'd need to be flawless,
omniscient, perfect. But if we base our belief in those visitors
solely on reports from other witnesses, maybe we should also take
a look at their superior qualities as shown in those same
reports.
Here are 7 cases which I selected to demonstrate my
point (all emphasis are mine):
CASE 1
Source: A CATALOG OF HUMANOID REPORTS FOR 1974 by Ted Bloecher,
MUFON 1975 UFO Symposium Proceedings.
Observer, a nurse's aid, was walking from one hospital
building to another when she saw a disc descending; four
legs emerged and the object landed atop the roof. A ramp, or
ladder, emerged ... ... One being turned and saw the
witness watching; the three then re-entered the object,
which took off ...
CASE 2
Source: A CATALOG OF HUMANOID REPORTS FOR 1974 by Ted Bloecher,
MUFON 1975 UFO Symposium Proceedings.
Truckdriver observed blinding white light on the road;
at 200 m. his lights and Diesel motor went out. ... Two 6 ft
beings appeared ... They looked at the witness, gestured to
each other, and one pointed at him; the two then disappeared
around the right side of the UFO, which rose...
The next day:
Truck lights and motor killed, as before. ...four men
now appeared and approached, at which the driver got out of
truck and fled. They followed, gaining. After running some
distance, he jumped into drainage ditch and hid; the four
searched area but did not find him. ... he returned on foot
and saw, from distance of 8-9 m., the men digging at
roadside ...
---
* Origin: Scotian Gold {Mufonet) Mutual Unidentified Flying Ojects Net
(1:167/
Message #7292 - MUFONET
Date : 02-Sep-91 23:36
From : Jacques Poulet
To : All
Subject : Just a theory! 2 of 4
CASE 3
Source: Contact 158 by Frangois Bourbeau, 200 pages, Louise
Courteau Editor, ISBN 2-89239-013-3
This is a transcript of an hypnosis session with M. X. This
men had been abducted with his car. At this point, he's about to
leave the craft:
Yvon Now, tell me how you got out?
X I've been told to sit in the car and to touch nothing.
There will be a count down from ten to one and at that time,
I must start the engine! A door will open and I should find
myself on the same road where they pick me up.
Yvon Where are you now?
X I just got in the car...
Yvon Where are you going?
X Outside... home...
Yvon What's happening?
X The count down has started... get ready... (silence for
three seconds)... THERE... What the hell is happening?
(M. X shout that sentence, he seems excited). Oh!...
Boy a boy a boy!...
Yvon What happened?
X I hitted a road pannel, on the side of the road...
Yvon Where are you, precisely?
X On the road, I am ...
Yvon What's happening?
X I've been informed that there has been a technical
error. They say they'll come back...
---
* Origin: Scotian Gold {Mufonet) Mutual Unidentified Flying Ojects Net
(1:167/
Message #7293 - MUFONET
Date : 02-Sep-91 23:37
From : Jacques Poulet
To : All
Subject : Just a theory! 3 of 4
CASE 4
Source: TOUT SUR LES SOUCOUPES VOLANTES by Jean Ferguson, 258
pages, Lemiac.
-How long did you observed together?
-I'm not sure, a little more than 30 minutes.
-What happenned next?
-We got back in the car completely frozen. My friend
told me: "Why don't you flashes your lights?". The car beeing
in the general direction with the UFO, I thought I could try
it. I did just that. And sudenly, a very strong light was
shining on us, ... it lasted a few seconds, then the UFO
resumed its ...
CASE 5
Source: INTRUDERS by Budd Hopkins, 318 pages, Ballantine, ISBN
0-345-34633-5.
After an hypnosis session with Kathie where she described
how they removed the foetus from her womb:
... I asked if she ever said anything to them, ever
told them that it was cruel, that they had no right to take
her baby. She spoke to me almost in a wisper, calmly
furious: "I screamed it at them." Then, in a sad, ironic mix
of incomprehension and profound personal loss, she added
this: "And the fucker looked surprised."
CASE 6
Source: INTRUDERS by Budd Hopkins, 318 pages, Ballantine, ISBN
0-345-34633-5.
During the abduction, Ed was raped:
"... I was laying on my back on this bench and I didn't
have any clothes on, and somehow they made me erect and she
mounted me. ... and then she got off and left the room and
the two guys, they took little spoons and scraped the
leftover semen off my penis ..."
"You know, Budd, I'm sterile. ... I'd had a vasectomy a
couple of years before this." The previous night, just after
he came out of the hypnotic trance, he mentioned that his
abductors had seemed angry at him, and now I understood why.
---
* Origin: Scotian Gold {Mufonet) Mutual Unidentified Flying Ojects Net
(1:167/
Message #7294 - MUFONET
Date : 02-Sep-91 23:39
From : Jacques Poulet
To : All
Subject : Just a theory! 4 of 4
CASE 7
Source: NIGHT SIEGE by Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Philip J.
Imbrogno with Bob Pratt, 207 pages, Ballantine, ISBN
0-345-37086-4.
Slowing even more, he peered through the windshield,
straining to make out some type of shape behind the lights.
"I thought to myself, 'I wish it would come closer so I
can get a better look at it,' and as soon as that thought
went through my mind, the object began to descend and head
straight for my car."
It had switched off its "searchlight" and was now about
one hundred yards above the road.
Let's try to show them the way they really are:
One of God's (any god) feature is to be omniscient.
Cases 1 and 2, where they didn't know, at first, that there was a
human witness. In case 5, they didn't understand our psychology,
while in case 6, they didn't know that the man they were
abducting for semen sample was sterile. Those example show a less
than know-it-all entity!
Another of God's feature should be omnipotent. In case
2, the four men can't locate the hidden truck driver. In case 3,
they tell the abductee that "there has been a technical error".
In general, they try their best to hide from us and erase traces
of memory from contactee/abductee, but we still document (even if
only partially) their presence and activities. Not so powerfull
after all!
They are very curious! They travel long distances to
monitor, record and collect information. They seems to like to
communicate! Maybe they are not suppose to contact any earthling,
but they often do anyway. In case 4 and 7, they answer to a
witness and in case 7, they even give him the opportunity to get
a good look at their craft (as if they were proud of it!).
They can even become angry! In case 6, Ed had a
definite impression that they were angry at him. Also in case 3,
which it isn't mentioned here, but there were two entities
performing the abduction. The witness beleived that one of them
was mad at him for an unknown reason and that it could be the
cause of the "technical error".
So, I think we can safely assume that those visitors
are not god-like creatures. They are certainly members of
advanced societies, but it doesn't means that they are flaw-less.
Jacques Poulet
---
* Origin: Scotian Gold {Mufonet) Mutual Unidentified Flying Ojects Net
(1:167/
Message #7278 - MUFONET (RECEIVED)
Date : 01-Sep-91 0:22
From : John Powell
To : Jim Greenen
Subject : Abductions/Implants
Replies : #7277 <--> #7279
In a message to John Powell <30 Aug 91 8:40> Jim Greenen wrote:
JG> John; there have been several implants been found and removed
JG> from the abductees. These are being analyze at this time but no
JG> conclusions have been announce as of yet. I think one of these
JG> implants is at MIT but don't quote me on this. ---Jim---
Can you back this up with documentation and sources?
Dr. Cro Magnon could figure out in about 20 seconds, with a K-Mart microscope,
that such an object was not from 'here'...
Thanks, take care.
John.
--- XRS! 4.50+
* Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)
Message #7947 - MUFONET
Date : 04-Sep-91 08:08
From : Jim Greenen
To : John Powell
Subject : Abductions/Implants
Replies : #7279 <-
JP> In a message to John Powell <30 Aug 91 8:40> Jim Greenen
JP> wrote:
JP>
JP> JG> John; there have been several implants been found and removed
JP> JG> from the abductees. These are being analyze at this time but no
JP> JG> conclusions have been announce as of yet. I think one of these
JP> JG> implants is at MIT but don't quote me on this. ---Jim---
JP>
JP> Can you back this up with documentation and sources?
JP>
JP> Dr. Cro Magnon could figure out in about 20 seconds, with a
JP> K-Mart microscope, that such an object was not from
JP> 'here'...
JP>
JP> Thanks, take care.
JP> John.
JP>
JP> --- XRS! 4.50+
JP> * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence
JP> (Quick 1:19/19.19)
By Golly, I'm glad you ask. I just went to a lecture last night that was done
by Bill Knell and he mention this in his lecture. Yes, the implant was sent to
MIT for analyzes and is now at some other university. I think he said that the
results from MIT was that it was made out of earth material but the structure
was of a way that it couldn't be made on this planet with are present
technology.
The person that this was taken out is named Richard Price and he is having
a book published at this moment and should be out on the shelves soon. If you
want to obtain more information on this Write to: Island Skywatch---164-22
77th Road, Flushing, NY 11365.
I hope this helps 73's ---Jim---
--- RemoteAccess 0.03+
* Origin: Gourmet Delight! Orlando FL (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)
-- EOF -----------------------------------------------------------------
----- End Included Message -----
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb
From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Livermore Tests 2KW Laser Beam
Message-ID: <9202142313.AA28374@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Date: 14 Feb 92 23:13:11 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Lines: 60
Even tho this is being used for research, none the less ALL air traffic has
been warned. Why? Hmmmm....sure blindness but what if you upped the power,
sounds like a good weapon to me.....the question is against whom or more
specifically.....what?
Len
----- Begin Included Message -----
From jtk@s1.gov Wed Feb 12 13:36:01 1992
Return-Path: <jtk@s1.gov>
Received: from stratus by echidna.swdc.stratus.com (4.0/SMI-4.0)
id AA10476; Wed, 12 Feb 92 13:35:59 PST
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 13:35:16 PST
From: Jordan Kare <jtk@s1.gov>
Message-Id: <9202122135.AA19337@guardian.s1.gov>
To: bertsche@llnl.gov, lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com
Subject: artificial star
Status: RO
(Replying to your note to Kirk Bertsche -- he relayed the message to me,
and I know a bit more about what's going on).
Yes, there is a project at the Lab called "Guidestar" which
will use a large laser (the AVLIS laser, built for laser isotope
separation, about 2 kW output in the visible) to excite sodium ions
in the upper atmosphere. It should be visible from the ground with a
modest telescope (I don't recall the exact brightness) as a yellow
star; it will be directly overhead in Livermore, and visible for
several miles around. There is, I believe, an active effort to
get Livermore-area amateur astronomers to report on the appearance
(brightness and shape) of the "star". Actual generation of a guide star
is still several months away, minimum, but some of the hardware is
in place, and they've just about got the environmental and safety approvals
needed.
I fear it won't be all that impressive, just a yellow blob
hanging high over Livermore; large satellites seen at dusk are more
impressive and naked-eye visible. However, you might try to
contact the Institute for Geophysics and Planetary Physics, L-419,
(OOPS, make that L-413; my terminal is screwed up and I can't edit
properly right now) LLNL, P.O. Box 808, Livermore CA 94550,
510-423-0621 and ask about the Guidestar project and possible
amateur observing opportunities.
Jordin Kare
----- End Included Message -----
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb
From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Who Lives in Dublin,Pleasonton,Livermore CA Area?
Message-ID: <9202142327.AA28475@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Date: 14 Feb 92 23:27:45 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Lines: 11
If you live in this area of CA and you have a telescope, CALL ME at
(510)828-6727. I have been seeing some very strange activity by the
central star of the Cassieopia constellation. I would like to start
a group watch. Also I heard that Pleasonton had a crop circle appear
about 2 - 4 months ago. Anyone know anything?
Please Email response as I dont get this group.
Len
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!ames!network.ucsd.edu!nic!netlabs!lwall
From: lwall@netlabs.com (Larry Wall)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars-face view from Hoaghland concerning Cydonia
Keywords: mars-face
Message-ID: <1992Feb15.010339.11187@netlabs.com>
Date: 15 Feb 92 01:03:39 GMT
References: <behse.697949192@tubue> <1992Feb14.014130.27576@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@netlabs.com
Organization: NetLabs, Inc.
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4442 sci.space:26614 sci.skeptic:20577 alt.paranormal:4378
Nntp-Posting-Host: scalpel.netlabs.com
In article <1992Feb14.014130.27576@midway.uchicago.edu> keho@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
: I think I read this in that book about the Aztecs that predicted
: the harmonic convergance in 1988. Has anyone else heard this
: story? If it were true I expect it would be widely publicized
: by now.
Alas, you should expect no such thing.
Truth has almost no correlation with Publication.
Larry Wall
lwall@netlabs.com
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!mcnc!borg!pooh!davidson
From: davidson@pooh.cs.unc.edu (Drew Davidson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu>
Date: 15 Feb 92 16:15:53 GMT
References: <1992Feb13.011648.23182@colorado.edu>
Sender: news@cs.unc.edu
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 36
In article <1992Feb13.011648.23182@colorado.edu> schiffd@tigger.Colorado.EDU (David M. Schiff) writes:
>There's an interesting article in the Feb. 1, '92 issue of
>Science News (vol. 141) on crop circles. [...]
>
> A retired astronomer, named Gerald S. Hawkins, claims that the
>crop designs imply important mathematical theorems. As I've indicated
>earlier, this is not the first time somebody noticed this.
Did the other people notice the same theorems that he noticed? What were
the other theorems that were noticed?
>The thing that makes this interesting is that these are (according to him)
>previously unknown theorems which he discovered by looking at pictures of
>the designs and later proved. He searched both ancient and modern mathematics
>textbooks but couldn't find anything even resembling these theorems.
If he sat down and proved the theorems so quickly how come nobody else has
proved them in the history of mankind? Or was the entire proof also encoded
in the crop circles? Has he tried to publish the theorems and proofs as
his own discovery? If they're important, then why the heck not?
> Further, the four theorems discovered through investigation of separate
>crop designs are related by a fifth (and as yet undisclosed) theorem which
>encompasses the others.
What are the theorems? (You imply that the first four *are* disclosed.)
Were they in the Science News article? Where can I find out what they
are?
Skeptical but curious,
Drew
--
Drew Davidson \\ HELP FULLY INFORM JURORS! TELL YOUR FRIENDS:
davidson@cs.unc.edu \\ As a juror, you have the right to vote NOT GUILTY
** LEGALIZE TRUTH ** \\ if you believe the law broken is unjust or wrongly
* FULLY INFORM JURORS * \\ applied, regardless of the facts of the case.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!mercury.cair.du.edu!copper!dschiff
From: dschiff@copper.denver.colorado.edu (David Michael Schiff)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
Date: 15 Feb 92 20:47:24 GMT
References: <1992Feb13.011648.23182@colorado.edu> <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu>
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver
Lines: 44
In article <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> davidson@pooh.cs.unc.edu (Drew Davidson) writes:
> ...[my original article deleted]...
>Did the other people notice the same theorems that he noticed? What were
>the other theorems that were noticed?
>
Actually, I should have said it isn't the first time someone has noticed
mathematical content. There's a photograph of another crop design which
is supposed to depict the "Mandelbrot Set".
>......
>If he sat down and proved the theorems so quickly how come nobody else has
>proved them in the history of mankind? Or was the entire proof also encoded
>in the crop circles? Has he tried to publish the theorems and proofs as
>his own discovery? If they're important, then why the heck not?
>
He said, "It's easy to prove the theorem but so difficult to conceive it."
To prove his point he often refuses to divulge the fifth thm.
I don't know whether he tried to publish or not - that's a good question.
>......
>What are the theorems? (You imply that the first four *are* disclosed.)
>Were they in the Science News article? Where can I find out what they
>are?
>
The first four theorems are contained in the article.
If you're interested, I suggest you read it.
>Skeptical but curious,
I'll give the 2nd, 3rd & 4th, for the curious, as they're quite simple to
state. If you're skeptical you could post to sci.math and see what people
there have to say and let us know (or do your own research).
II) For an equilateral triangle, the ratio ot the areas of the circumscribed
and inscribed circles is 4:1.
III) For a square, the ratio of the areas of the circumscribed and
inscribed circles is 2:1.
IV) For a regular hexagon, the ratio of the areas of the outer circle
and the inscribed circle is 4:3.
>Drew
Dave
Path: ns-mx!uunet!infonode!case
From: case@infonode.ingr.com (Bill Case)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Summary: go there?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com>
Date: 15 Feb 92 21:43:10 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz>
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Lines: 17
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4445 sci.space:26625 sci.skeptic:20612 alt.paranormal:4379
In article <5054@otc.otca.oz>, siri@otc.otca.oz (Siri Hewa) writes:
> But Mars face
> stick out like a sore thumb on this picture. I think only way to get proof of
> any sort is to go there in person?.
^^^^^^
I haven't seen it, but I know Italy looks alot like a boot.
If I'm paying the tax bill, what I favor is a robot IMAX camera where
the wind sounds are recorded in 8 channel, dolby, THX, etc. If we did
that, then millions could come close to "going" to Mars, without anyone
actually going. We have the pictures from Apollo, but they don't convey
the awesome feeling of standing on the moon. I want the experience.
Bill "Hmm, would 3-D, smell-o-vision work? :-)" Case
...uunet!ingr!b11!casey!case (UUCP)
ingr!b11!casey!case@uunet.uu.net (ARPANET)
case@ingr.com (Internet)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!vax1.umkc.edu!aellison
From: aellison@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The REPTOIDS Are Coming!
Message-ID: <1992Feb14.180754.1604@vax1.umkc.edu>
Date: 15 Feb 92 00:07:54 GMT
References: <10134@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
Organization: University of Missouri Computing Services
Lines: 21
In article <10134@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, randmc@eb4ts1.EBay.Sun.COM (Randal Martin) writes:
>
> SO BE AWARE! ONLY YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THIS FAKE INVASION AND FAKE RAPTURE CAN
> PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING. DEMAND THE TRUTH FROM YOUR GOVERNMENT. TELL THEM
> YOU KNOW ABOUT THE ALIENS AND THAT THERE ARE GOOD ALIENS AND BAD ALIENSAND
> THAT MJ-12 IS PROMOTING THE BAD ALIENS AND THE ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT THEY HOPE
> TO CONTROL.
Smile and Nod.
--
Freelance Amiga
Allen B. Ellison UMKC Physics UnderGrad
4343 Warwick STM/AFM Research // Programmer
Kansas City, MO 64111 \X/
for
AELLISON@vax1.umkc.edu Hire!
=============================== -- cut here -- ================================
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!cornell!cs.cornell.edu!nikos
From: nikos@cs.cornell.edu (Nikos P. Pitsianis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu>
Date: 16 Feb 92 01:59:47 GMT
References: <1992Feb13.011648.23182@colorado.edu> <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
Sender: news@cs.cornell.edu (USENET news user)
Organization: Cornell University, CS Dept., Ithaca, NY
Lines: 51
Nntp-Posting-Host: turing2.cs.cornell.edu
In article <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, dschiff@copper.denver.colorado.edu (David Michael Schiff) writes:
|> >What are the theorems? (You imply that the first four *are* disclosed.)
|> >Were they in the Science News article? Where can I find out what they
|> >are?
|> >
|> The first four theorems are contained in the article.
|> If you're interested, I suggest you read it.
|>
|> >Skeptical but curious,
|> I'll give the 2nd, 3rd & 4th, for the curious, as they're quite simple to
|> state. If you're skeptical you could post to sci.math and see what people
|> there have to say and let us know (or do your own research).
|>
|> II) For an equilateral triangle, the ratio ot the areas of the circumscribed
|> and inscribed circles is 4:1.
|>
|> III) For a square, the ratio of the areas of the circumscribed and
|> inscribed circles is 2:1.
|>
|> IV) For a regular hexagon, the ratio of the areas of the outer circle
|> and the inscribed circle is 4:3.
|>
|>
|> >Drew
|> Dave
The theorems are not only simple to state but simple to prove too! I don't
think any mathematical journal will be interested in their publication
(except of course "Amusements in Mathematics" for high school level geometry).
For example the proof of "theorem" II is the following:
We know that for an equilateral triangle, the center of the circumscribed and
inscribed circles is the point where the altitudes and angle bisectors intersect.
(It is one and the same for equilateral triangles).
Let R and r the radii of the circumscribed and inscribed circles respectively.
Then, R and r are related to each other as the hypotenuse and a side of
a right-angle triangle, where r is opposite to an angle that is half the angle
of the equilateral triangle that is equal to 60 degrees.
So r/R = sin 30 = 1/2. R is twice as long as r, therefore the ratio ot the areas of the circumscribed and inscribed circles is 4:1. QED
Regards,
-- Nikos
______________________________________________________________________________
Nikos P Pitsianis Internet : nikos@cs.cornell.edu
Cornell University Phone : (607) 255 3042
4130 Upson Hall, Dept of Comp Sc FAX : (607) 255 4428
Ithaca, NY 14853 Home : (607) 257 4579
______________________________________________________________________________
Path: ns-mx!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!gatech!udel!sbcs.sunysb.edu!csws10.ic.sunysb.edu!jflint
From: jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Summary: Seeing things...
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
Date: 16 Feb 92 03:40:58 GMT
Expires: Sat, 29 Feb 1992 05:00:00 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com>
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Nntp-Posting-Host: csws10.ic.sunysb.edu
Italy may look like a boot...
but not much.
The Face may look like a face...
but certainly more than Italy looks like a boot.
--Tog
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!ub!csn!copper!dschiff
From: dschiff@copper.denver.colorado.edu (David Michael Schiff)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <2417@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
Date: 16 Feb 92 05:16:27 GMT
References: <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu>
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver
Lines: 28
In article <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> nikos@cs.cornell.edu (Nikos P. Pitsianis) writes:
> [stuff deleted]
>The theorems are not only simple to state but simple to prove too! I don't
>think any mathematical journal will be interested in their publication
>(except of course "Amusements in Mathematics" for high school level geometry).
>
>For example the proof of "theorem" II is the following:
>[proof deleted]
Right and for theorem III the proof is the following:
r = (1/2)s, R = [r^2 + (s/2)^2]^1/2 = [(s/2)^2 + (s/2)^2]^1/2
so the ratio of the areas = R^2/r^2 = (s^2/2)(4/s^2) = 2:1.
But, as Hawkins said, the fun part is thinking them up.
Can you (or anyone else) think of the fifth theorem which is
the generalized form of the first four?
What I'd really like to know is what he saw in the data and the
photographs to inspire a couple of these theorems.
For example, the relationship between the design consisting of
a circle and four corners - all circumscribed by another circle,
and theorem III.
It would also be nice to know how he discovered the whole numbers
which match the ratios of the diatonic scale.
Regards,
Dave
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy
From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <1992Feb16.044444.13547@anasaz>
Date: 16 Feb 92 04:44:44 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com>
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az
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In article <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> case@infonode.ingr.com (Bill Case) writes:
->In article <5054@otc.otca.oz>, siri@otc.otca.oz (Siri Hewa) writes:
->> But Mars face
->> stick out like a sore thumb on this picture. I think only way to get proof of
->> any sort is to go there in person?.
-> ^^^^^^
->I haven't seen it, but I know Italy looks alot like a boot.
->
... stuff deleted ...
Suppose there are people on Mars and they have faces that look like boots.
Then we'd really have something.
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Livermore Tests 2KW Laser Beam
Message-ID: <jms.07bt@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 15 Feb 92 20:28:05 GMT
References: <9202142313.AA28374@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 9
Did we *really* have to bring this into the conspiracy theory arena?
There's no reason to believe that it's for anything other than its intended
scientific purpose.
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?
Message-ID: <jms.07c7@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 16 Feb 92 01:54:29 GMT
References: <9202142258.AA28258@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 18
Until the government sources come forward so their story can be checked
out, I'm afraid these stories aren't going to get much sympathy from me.
By the way, I recently saw a file transcribed from Chuck Harder's radio
show, "For The People". It contains an alleged New York Times article
concerning the discovery of object "8-13A" which is (what else?) a
suspected asteroid-sized spacecraft entering our solar system. However, I
happen to know that this article was taken from a 1978 work of fiction
titled "The Extraterrestrial Report". The book contains many fake
newspaper/magazine articles and government documents. Nearly all of them
are written so satirically that they're immediately identifiable as fakes.
Unfortunately, the "8-13A" article is one of the few that aren't.
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
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From: smeagol@carina.unm.edu (Karl P.)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum (A Response)
Message-ID: <9kaha+h@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 16 Feb 92 22:16:18 GMT
References: <16c9baa2@nacjack.gen.nz>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 13
Well, this was an unfunny, childish, masturbatory, little series.
Hopefully, the infant responsible has been scolded by his mommy and
had his daddy's modem disassembled and forced into his anal cavity.
---Reverend Smeagol
--
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
? smeagol@carina.unm.edu ? It has yet to be proven that intelligence ?
? Global Village Idiot ? has any survival value.---Arthur C. Clarke ?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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From: ijameson@adelphi.ua.oz.au (Iain Jameson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Shriek of the Looney - Part two
Message-ID: <6291@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>
Date: 17 Feb 92 00:40:02 GMT
Sender: news@ucs.adelaide.edu.au
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CHAPTER FOUR : The Book of the Prophet - part two
Thus it was between the Pleiadians and the Lyrans. The so-called
`Cappuccino Wars' ravaged an entire sector of our galaxy. Whole
star stytems were laid waste. The Lyrians fought well, but were no
match for the Purple Shades of Grey with their herbal teas and
stick breads. It was thus out of desperation that the Pleiadians
started to create the new race - a race genetically altered in such
a way that the first coffee of the morning was the result of
millenia of selective breeding.
"But what of the tea drinkers?" you ask. Well, it was realized long ago
that in order to understand the magnitude of the problem, a small
group which drank tea should be created. `Know thine enemy,' was the catch
phrase of the day - along with `Oh shit, there goes another planet,'
and `Bugger, I was enjoying that.' It is for this reason that coffee
drinkers everywhere despise drinkers of tea, especially Devonshire tea.
I have talked about the Pleiadians and the Lyrans. They, however, are
not the only people who have fought the Purple Shades of Grey. On another
front were the Ummonians, from the jewelled planet Ummo.
Send me all of your money. You will forget you read this.
The Ummonians are a race older than the galaxy. While the Pleiadians
were little more than slime molds, the Ummonians were creating puff
pastries that were to be, in time, the basis for several forms of life
in the Small Magellanic Cloud. Before the Lyrians understood the
importance of the term `espresso' the Ummonians had discovered a
process by which one's coffee never went cold, no matter how long
one let it stand. Yes my children, the Ummonians knew where it was at!
Yet, even such a race was hard put against the evil of the Purple
Shades of Grey. The mighty beam weapons of the Ummonians were worthless
against their most secret and powerful weapon - fruit tea and biscuts.
I would like to thank Lewis for proof reading this post.
Even the powerful Ummonians had to concede defeat on several occasions.
On one such occasion, they passed through our system, and built a series
of coffee rooms on the fourth and fifth planets. The Purple Shades of Grey
destroyed the fifth planet, but the coffee rooms were cunningly disguised
as pyramids on the red planet, and were thus saved - which was fortunate
because around that time, on the red planet, a party was being thrown in
honour of the exalted one's billionth birthday. The reaction of souffle
with herbal tea would have destroyed the galaxy!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!sun13!ds1.scri.fsu.edu!pepke
From: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <7171@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>
Date: 17 Feb 92 02:28:38 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
Sender: news@sun13.scri.fsu.edu
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In article <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
>Italy may look like a boot...
>but not much.
>The Face may look like a face...
>but certainly more than Italy looks like a boot.
And the Kermit the Frog on Mars looks a hell of a lot more like Kermit the
Frog than the Face looks like a face.
So just what exactly is the point?
-EMP
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham
From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <1992Feb17.041508.9188@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 17 Feb 92 05:12:34 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <7171@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>
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In article <7171@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes...
>In article <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
>>Italy may look like a boot...
>>but not much.
>>The Face may look like a face...
>>but certainly more than Italy looks like a boot.
>
>And the Kermit the Frog on Mars looks a hell of a lot more like Kermit the
>Frog than the Face looks like a face.
That is simply not true. I have to work a lot harder at seeing the "frog"
than I do the "face".
Besides, if this were true, it blows the "human mind looks for faces"
argument used by armchair debunkers, doesn't it?
Maybe you're different. Maybe YOUR brain is more tuned to looking for
frogs, but not me. :-)
Jim Graham
-> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
Neither do they speak for me.
______________________________________________________________________
| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
|______________________________________________________________________|
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple!claris!szebra!spectrx!system
From: system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Keywords: waste of bandwith, stupidity, asine behavior
Message-ID: <HVo0FB2w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>
Date: 17 Feb 92 02:31:40 GMT
References: <16c921d7@nacjack.gen.nz>
Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca
Lines: 14
Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge) writes:
> I am a human alien. You're just funny looking...
>
> ---
>
>
get a life, stop wasting other peoples money by posting this crap
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Anderer, System Operator system@spectrx.saigon.com
SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1 408 252 1005 szebra!spectrx!system
NO MORE BUSH! Write in Cuomo for '92! NO MORE BUSH!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!bmb
From: bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan Bankhead)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>
Date: 16 Feb 92 21:41:36 GMT
References: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 15
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4458 sci.space:26659 sci.skeptic:20638 alt.paranormal:4384
jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
> Italy may look like a boot...
> but not much.
> The Face may look like a face...
> but certainly more than Italy looks like a boot.
> --Tog
Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike
the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees
or other objects in outlins.
This is from
bmb@bluemoon.rn.com
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu!pgalley
From: pgalley@isis.cs.du.edu (Patrick galley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Ummits
Message-ID: <1992Feb17.071016.13327@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Date: 17 Feb 92 07:10:16 GMT
Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Lines: 13
In JP Petit's book about the Ummit's he said that there are some
connections between the Ummits and some groups of human trough the world
and not only in Spain.
Does someone know information from other source about this ?
It would be very kind if you could answer me directly by e-mail , because
I can't access easily to alt.alien.visitors.
Patrick Galley : Student at the Engineer School of Geneva
e-mail : galley@eig.unige.ch
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!yang.earlham.edu!toms
From: toms@yang.earlham.edu (Wearer of the Purple Toga)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: There are no victims! (was Re: Creating reali
Message-ID: <1992Feb14.213404.15321@yang.earlham.edu>
Date: 15 Feb 92 02:34:03 GMT
References: <1992Feb11.001142.25150@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> <1992Feb14.213126.15320@yang.earlham.edu>
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage
Distribution: usa
Lines: 64
In article <1992Feb14.213126.15320@yang.earlham.edu>, toms@yang.earlham.edu (Wearer of the Purple Toga) writes:
> In article <1992Feb11.001142.25150@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>, jtg@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Redheaded Goddess) writes:
> toms@yang. etc. (Sluuurp) writes: "...giving Kathy
> instructions on how to do a follow up"
>
> toms@yang Sluuurp: Did it ever occur to you that
> 1) I never read your post
Actually, yes.
> 2) I am not interested in your 'instructions'?
Bullshit. You only say that because of who they come from.
>
> Perhaps you should go back a few hundred centuries, where
> women followed mens' instructions implicitly.
Oh, so if you were a man, I wouldn't speak this way to you. It's
all so clear now...
>
> Wake up, Sluuurp. This is the time and age where the Feminine
> is beginning to validate herself.
So just because I flame you, I'm a Male Chauvinist Pig (tm). Your
ability to make huge leaps in 'logic' astounds me. You're right. I
believe that all women should be kept barefoot and pregnant all their
lives, and should be subservient and obedient to men in all things, should
only speak when they're spoken to...
Anyway, why should women ever have to validate themselves as such?
That's actually quite a male chauvinist thing to say. Women have always
had validity. Perhaps you should look up the word. And if the women's
movement only had people like you to speak for it, it never would have
gotten anywhere. You're practically as bad as an obnoxious, small-minded
girl who furiously accused a friend of mine of being racist because he
made fun of a couple of videos on BET and mentioned that he hated disco
music. Sound like a non sequitur to you (well, maybe it doesn't)? That's
the point.
>
> As far as it's vx. its'...I know all that stuff. I am just
> a very fast typist and thinker, and don't always take time
Obviously. You think so fast that you have the ability to
determine my attitude towards the relationship between the sexes from a
post in which I neither implied nor explicitly said anything about about
it. And we're supposed to believe and trust you when you tell us how the
universe and the human mind actually work. Despite your research into
this subject, you have no credibility.
> to make corrections. You will have to live with it, or 'n'
> my posts, as I probably will yours.
>
> Kathy
Yeah, right. I remember you saying something on
talk.religion.newage about how "narrow minded flames will be ignored."
Just like you ignored mine. Stop contradicting yourself. Also, if I
didn't read you posts, I'd have to go back to rec.humor. I am pleased,
though, with your correct spelling of the word, "Sluuurp."
"Things are more like they are today than they
have ever been before."
-Dwight D. Eisenhower
- Thomas James Douglas Morrison Schmidt
ECMLVDC
- Light Terminal Operator
-==Earlham College MoonLight VAX Driving Corps==-
"Bad craziness, fast terminals, and nothing better to do."
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!gibdo!tvp
From: tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <1992Feb17.111438.21406@gibdo.engr.washington.edu>
Date: 17 Feb 92 11:38:10 GMT
References: <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu>
Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System)
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In article <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> nikos@cs.cornell.edu (Nikos P. Pitsianis) writes:
[deletions]
>|>
>|> II) For an equilateral triangle, the ratio ot the areas of the
>|> circumscribed and inscribed circles is 4:1.
>|>
>|> III) For a square, the ratio of the areas of the circumscribed and
>|> inscribed circles is 2:1.
>|>
>|> IV) For a regular hexagon, the ratio of the areas of the outer circle
>|> and the inscribed circle is 4:3.
>|>
>|>
>|> >Drew
>|> Dave
>
>The theorems are not only simple to state but simple to prove too! I don't
>think any mathematical journal will be interested in their publication
>(except of course "Amusements in Mathematics" for high school level geometry).
>
>For example the proof of "theorem" II is the following:
[obvious proof deleted]
I think the open-minded (but not so open your brains ooze out your
ears) skeptic (the type I like to be) would say: Yes, but is the claim
that these theorems have never been stated before true or false?
Statements such as: "This is too trivial to be important" or "someone
*must* have come up with this somewhere" are rather useless, I think.
If we take the poster at his word that he looked everywhere he could
for them and he couldn't find them, I would say it is up to *us* to
find them somewhere. If we can't we have to look at what the discoverer
claims to be his source (the circles) and the explanation as to how
they inspired him, and see if that explanation is reasonable. Still,
one thing a skeptic could *still* argue at that point is:
The man, staring at shapes he *believed* to be made by intelligent
beings, searched so hard for meaning that he found it in the form of
five as yet undiscovered theorems. The fact that they were
undiscovered may be praiseworthy, but it wouldn't necessarily mean any
intelligence behind the crop circle formations had anything to do with
it. No, after showing that the theorems are probably new, we would
need evidence that the very layout of the crop circles was *designed*
to lead to the discovery of these theorems and again determine if this
seems reasonable. It would however probably still be inconclusive.
Now, if the discoverer of these theorems could state a formal _method_
of how one decodes the crop circles, and this method was then applied
independently by others to discover additional new theorems based on
future formations, you would start getting a lot of attention I would
think. As it is, I have noted it as a very interesting claim and hope
to see it supported in the rigorous fashion I have outlined as being
necessary.
-- Tad Perry
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Ecker
From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Something Wicked This Way Comes?
Message-ID: <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 16 Feb 92 23:06:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 9:1012/3.0 - <ParaNet ALPH, Los Angeles CA
Lines: 106
In the message "Something Wicked This Way Comes?" Len Bucuvalas quoted John
Ford of Long Island UFO Update;
> The following information is taken directly form the April issue of The
> Long
> Island U.F.O. Update, the monthly bulletin for the Long Island UFO
> Network.
>
> THE CHAIRMAN'S CORNER BY JOHN FORD
>
>
> SOMETHING IS COMING OUR WAY!
>
> In Ufology, you hear a lot of strange stories. Some you have to
> take
> at face value, while others are too far fetched to believe even in this
> strange study of unusual objects and humanoid beings. Some stories you
> mark
In UFO Magazine Volume 7 No. 1 I wrote a forum piece on this business because
of a guest appearence I had on the Chuck Harder Radio Program. I spoke
about an investigation I conducted on the Phobos II incident, Harder then
mentioned the famous asteroid story. Later Richard Hoagland attacked
Harder on the air and Harder severed Hoagland from the show. The following is
the forum piece that ran in *UFO Magazine.
***************************************************************************
UFO Magazine Volume 7, Number 1 Copyrighted@ 1992
by Don Ecker/Director Research
Stray Asteroid Story Sings UFO `Groupies'
by Don Ecker
What is an asteroid? Well the easiest answer is a large rock
floating in space. They also can be potentially a dangerous piece
of rock. Some paleontologists have blamed an asteroid for the
destruction of the dinosaurs around 65 million years ago.
The theory goes that one of the innumerable asteroids in orbit about
the sun, and a rather large one at that, was pulled into Earths
gravity. Or we just happened to be in the wrong place at the right
time, and one landed with the force of millions of megatons of
destruction and changed the entire face of the planet and irrevocably
altered the fauna on the surface of the planet.
Asteroids can be fatal to radio careers to. It seems that former
science advisor to radio talk show host Chuck Harder, Richard
Hoagland, embarrassed Harder on the air, thereby severing his
weekly spot on Harders show. Harder had been speaking publicly on
his program about an alleged asteroid that had been, according to
what appeared to be a New York Times story from 1977 speeding its way to
Earth, making what the story claimed were course changes. The Times article
duly quoted purported scientists, and sounded very legit; it turned out that
when the New York Times Index was checked, along with microfiche copies from
that date and several days after, no such article could be found. It was
someone's very real looking fabrication.
Harder had given the story a lot of air play, and on one of
Hoaglands weekly spots, he attacked Harder on the air, lambasting him for
giving out the story without, accoring to Hoagland, checking the facts. Of
course, if someone is giving you free air time to pontificate nationally it
is not a good idea to shoot yourself in the foot because you have a hangnail.
Harder is not the only one to be taken in by the story of a course
changing asteroid. Virgil Armstrong has written and spoken about
this asteroid on its way to earth full of alien bad guys. Other
conspiratorial UFO groupies have written about it, and before I
could say "Shozbot" I had heard about the fearsome "Draco" lizard
guys on board the asteroid, and they were supposedly on their way
to earth for a snack.
For a number of months it seemed like everyone was talking about
"the asteroid". John Ford of LIUFON wrote in his editor's column
this past spring about the mysterious asteroid, and claimed that
he heard about it from Linda Howe.
According to Ford Howe had told him it came from a Pentagon
contact, and yes it was observed changing course. Well, the closest
thing we have heard about is a several meter long "thingy" that was
to have passed close to earth by December 5th, 1991 and at last
report, all of earth's spaced based defense systems are still at
"Condition Green". Somehow I think that if some huge asteroid was
on its way toward earth, the MJ-12 guys couldn't silence everybody
about this. <G> I still keep my ears open for those astronomer's down
in deepest-darkest South America. They would be sure to let us
know, after all, they are the only guys that can point their
telescopes out toward Zeti Reticulum to see if anything is on its
way in. Somehow I won't loose too much sleep over the rest of this
tripe.
**********************************************************************
Don Ecker
UFO Magazine
PO Box 1053
Sunland, CA 91041
--
Don Ecker - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!descartes!jsinclai
From: jsinclai@descartes.waterloo.edu (Jack Sinclair)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars-face info why it might be no optical delusion!
Keywords: mars face
Message-ID: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu>
Date: 17 Feb 92 17:36:51 GMT
References: <1992Feb5.192555.13090@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu> <1992Feb10.193545.18596@cadence.com> <1992Feb11.075838.9984@csi.compuserve.com>
Organization: University of Waterloo
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In article <1992Feb11.075838.9984@csi.compuserve.com> dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:
>>>In article <1992Feb05.164042.10541@csi.compuserve.com> dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:
>>>>Maybe you ought to spend a little less time yelling about the subject, and
>>>>a little more time citing your evidence for why a reasonable skeptic would
>>>>not think there was a face in the pictures.
>>>
>>>Oh come on now. Are you seriously denying that people see faces in natural
>>>formations on the Earth?
>
>Well, to be honest everyone, I think the meaning of my original response may
>have become a littles muddled.
>
>I myself personally believe that the "Face" on Mars is little more than
>another geographical feature that HAPPENS to be in the shape of a face,
>(just in case anyone's wondering, NO...I DON'T want to get into a lengthy
>discussion as to whether it actually IS a face), and that most of the hooplah
Gosh, if it were a face, it would be capable of laughing, smiling, winking, etc.
But not many of us believe that to be the case. So, it actually ISN'T a face.
;-)
> dzecchin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | to be a live lion. And usually easier."
Jack
--
jsinclai@descartes.waterloo.edu
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins
Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality
Keywords: mistake, UFOs, psi, creationism
Message-ID: <1992Feb17.184316.29894@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Date: 17 Feb 92 18:43:16 GMT
References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1992Feb15.033429.8688@cs.mcgill.ca>
Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Lines: 14
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In article <1992Feb15.033429.8688@cs.mcgill.ca>, pisces@cs.mcgill.ca (L. M. P. McPherson) writes in part:
|>
|> I believe another name for this is the "fallacy of the false dilemma." It is
|> an either/or mentality. [...]
|> This error pervades all areas of science, and leads to much
|> fruitless discussion.
I would observe that it pervades all areas of human discourse, not just
science. This is, of course, a staple of advertising and political
propaganda.
--
Robert E. McGrath
Urbana Illinois
mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!masscomp!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Whatever Happened to Bill Cooper? (was: Grey Aliens sighted ..again)
Message-ID: <1992Feb17.070314.15221@bilver.uucp>
Date: 17 Feb 92 07:03:14 GMT
References: <1992Feb11.041107.4504@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Feb11.202017.2352@anasaz> <1992Feb13.192005.20795sheaffer@netcom.COM>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
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In article <1992Feb13.192005.20795sheaffer@netcom.COM> sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>Naah, Cooper is still making the rounds. He was a major honcho at the
>"Penomicon" UFOs-and-Conspiracies conference in Atlanta last November.
>He gave a couple of "free" talks, but if you wanted to hear more, you
>had to pay $20 for some "private" sessions. He also did some TV
>interviews, and had scheduled some more expensive all-weekend seminars.
>And it looks like he had quite a few "buyers" (one born every minute?).
>On one panel, Cooper proclaimed that the "New World Order" would be
>a reality in "less than two years". I then pointed out that if all these
>nightmare things haven't come to pass by Nov. 2, 1993, then we KNOW
>we can safely ignore everything Cooper has to say.
Cooper has been *thoroughly* discredited by not only the very words
out of his mouth on _recordings_ of "threats" to other people, but
also Don Ecker did a 2 part series in UFO Magazine in the summer of
1990 on his expose' of "The Whistleblowers".
Also...if you ones will please note just how many times Cooper changes
his "story" around on the differences between "MJ-12" vs "MAJIC" and
"Majestic" in his earlier docs. Dead giveaway. I also have a text where
Bo Gritz is shown some of Cooper's "works" and especially what "security
codes" that Cooper uses in his docs and says in effect "That's Bullshit."
As for the "New World Order"...it's already well on it's way in the
treasonous undertaking of "The Newstates Declaration" being pushed by
the Rockefeller-Rothschild-Bilderberg-British Freemasonry crowd.
Don
--
-* Don Allen *- // Only | Are you ready for SETI?
Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona | The *real* "October Surprise"
Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!youngs
From: youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Scott D. Young)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <1992Feb17.212745.14815@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Date: 17 Feb 92 21:27:45 GMT
References: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
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In <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan Bankhead) writes:
>jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
>Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike
>the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees
>or other objects in outlins.
Where do you get this from? There are (I believe) 2, count'em, 2 shots of
this feature. Both have the same sun angle and thus the same shadows. No
oblique-angle shots or shots with other sun-angles exist. Thus your
statement is ridiculous. The face looks like a face when the sun shines at
one particular angle and when viewed from a certain angle. That is all we
"know" to date. It may be that the feature resembles a face at other angles,
or not. We will not "know" until more data is available.
Scott Young
youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Disclaimers apply
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!hollie.rdg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph
From: trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb17.172324.27902@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
Date: 17 Feb 92 18:14:55 GMT
Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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In article <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>, bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan Bankhead) writes...
>jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
>
>Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike
>the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees
>or other objects in outlins.
>
> This is from
> bmb@bluemoon.rn.com
>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Prove it.
(Yes, I have read Hoagland - thought it was a bunch of crapola, mostly. A whole
book and a lost civilazation from two grainy photographs...! Percival Lowell
all over again.)
-Tom R.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!news
From: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A survey!
Message-ID: <kq0gomINNa69@phad.hsc.usc.edu>
Date: 17 Feb 92 23:19:50 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 57
NNTP-Posting-Host: phad.hsc.usc.edu
I am conducting a survey on the subject of UFOs. I would appreciate it if
you will answer the following questions truthfully. I am not affiliated
with any government agencies, and I feel that UFOs may exist. The results of
this survey will be tabulated and sent to any requesting party. The identity
of answering parties will be witheld from any summaries made from this survey,
unless the party gives permission to release this information.
This is the first in what may be a series of surveys. Please remember, this
is a serious survey; please give serious answers.
Do you believe that UFOs physically exist?
Are you an UFO investigator?
For how long?
What aspects do you investigate?
How many cases have you handled?
How are cases referred to you?
What are your network addresses?
What is your phone number?
What geographic areas do you cover?
Do you belong to any professional organizations?
If so, please list organizations.
Are you a college graduate, or in school now?
If so, please state year(s) and place(s) of graduation and major(s).
Do you have physical proof of the existance of UFOs?
Please describe.
Have you ever seen, been inside, or seen the occupant(s) of an UFO?
Please elaborate.
Have you ever reported this to any research group or agency?
Please state dates, times, report numbers, and to whom the incident
was reported.
Do you believe in the possibility of a coverup on the subject of UFOs?
If so, do you believe that it would be for the general good of the public
to continue such a coverup? Please elaborate.
Do you believe that the Government(s) involved will ever release any
information on the subject?
Do you believe that there are beings on this planet that were not born here?
Have you ever met one? Describe.
Do you believe there is a connection between New Age religion and the UFOs?
Do you believe that New Age discussions have a place in UFO research?
Do you believe that crop circles are created by UFOs?
Do you wish any of this information to be released to requesting parties?
--
+-------------------------+------------------------------------------------
| dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed,
| Just my opinions! | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! -The Prisoner
+-------------------------+------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!trandolph
From: trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?
Message-ID: <1992Feb17.180352.28973@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
Date: 17 Feb 92 18:01:51 GMT
Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 58
>From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)
>
>Sorry if some of this has been here before. Some of this is new.
>Len
>
>Thu 30 May 91 19:29
>By: Mike Christol
>
> It seems that in 1987, NASA picked up the presence of a very large
>planetoid object entering our solar system near the area of Pluto. It was
>first detected by Voyager and later confirmed by telescope observations both
Good trick, seeing that neither Voyager was ever anywhere near Pluto.
> The object has been under constant observation since. It was last
>reported in the area of Jupiter. That last position was of January of this
Anything that big that close would have been noticed by amateur astronomers
by now - comet hunters if noone else. Jupiter has moons that size which can
be seen in binoculars.
>photograph distant stars or the Sun's corona. The Hubble telescope doesn't
>work and needs to be repaired, yet it is pointed straight out there and can
>return pictures through computer enhancement.
Perhaps someone should read up on their optics?
> Consider this too. Our Moon's orbit has condensed by three thousand
>miles while the Earth's axis has tilted slightly as if pushed ever so gently
>by the invisible hand of a tremendous gravitational field. Have you noticed
This is demonstrably false. (i.e. prove it.)
>Now, the "official" word is that SS433 (Stephenson-Saundeleak) is
>a very odd-behaviour type pulsar...but it would appear, that this
>is a cover for the above-mentioned article. This article,BTW, appeared
Are we trying to equate a pulsar with this 1000-mile asteroid thing here?
This shows gross ignorance of things astronomical.
>By David L. Chandler, Globe Staff
>
> A week ago, astronomers had decided that the tiny object,
^^^^
What happened to 1000 miles?
>I heard in Dec that there was a large (3mi diam) object coming toward
>earth... Some guy from NASA was saying that it was about
>a year away.. He called it something like Tutautus????
>
>Anyone up on this stuff?
Yes, it's yet another asteroid. Face it, folks, we live in a Solar system
full of debris. If you're gonna make every little Earth-approaching object
into a full-blown flying saucer, you'll be a very busy doobie...
-Tom R.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!gumby!kzoo!k080093
From: k080093@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Josh N. Vander Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <1992Feb17.235112.23708@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
Date: 17 Feb 92 23:51:12 GMT
References: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>
Organization: Kalamazoo College
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In article <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan Bankhead) writes:
>
>Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike
>the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees
>or other objects in outlins.
>
> This is from
> bmb@bluemoon.rn.com
>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
I am sorry - but, SO WHAT IF THERE IS A FORMATION THAT LOOKS LIKE A FACE ON
MARS? Am I missing something here? What is the significance, even if this
formation bears a REMARKABLE versimilitude to a human face? Neato, so there
are face shaped and pyramid shaped formations on Mars, ok, I guess this means
that there is a THRIVING populations of pyramid/face building martians just
ITCHING to channel themselves through a human host and show us the universe.
I am convinced.
Maybe we could convince them to come here and build faces so that the people
on Venus could see them through their telescopes. Then maybe we could get
them to turn a whole PLANET into a face. Probably have to use Mercury. Then
we could get people from other planetary systems to think that there is
intelligent life in this solar system... Then maybe we could line up all the
stars around the Sol so that they draw a smiley face for beings looking from
another Galaxy.
Hey, there is a BIG HUGE mitten in the United States... a LOT bigger than
that face, maybe there are alien mitten makers living amongst us, maybe they
want to channel with us too?
Just a few suggestions,
Josh Vander Berg k080093@kzoo.edu
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!pages!bruce
From: bruce@pages.com (Bruce Henderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: This Whole Mars Face Off
Message-ID: <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com>
Date: 18 Feb 92 00:56:29 GMT
References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu>
Sender: bruce@pages.com
Organization: Banzai Research Insttute
Lines: 14
About the face.
Let's all admit that the photographic evidence we have to go on for now is
pretty worthless. It's not real scientific research grade stuff. And we can
all scream and yell about what this fuzzy image enhanced thing looks like.
The truth of the matter is:
Mars Obsever goes up this year and will be in Mars orbit next year. At that
point they can resolve that hunk of rock at with a resolution of 3 meters, many
times the magnification and detail of the original photo. At that point this
whole discussion will be silly. If anyone left junk anywhere on Mars, we'll
know by '94
Bruce
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb18.012814.26252@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Date: 18 Feb 92 01:28:14 GMT
References: <1992Feb17.172324.27902@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
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trandolph@milkwy.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes:
|>In article <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>, bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan
|>Bankhead) writes...
|>>jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
|>>Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike
|>>the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees
|>>or other objects in outlins.
|>Prove it.
|>(Yes, I have read Hoagland - thought it was a bunch of crapola, mostly. A
|>whole book and a lost civilazation from two grainy photographs...! Percival
|>Lowell all over again.)
I'd be happy to see some better photos. what resolution is the mars observor
going to give us? if it is sufficiently fine it should settle the question
once and for all.
josh
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <1992Feb18.013113.26352@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Date: 18 Feb 92 01:31:13 GMT
References: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> <1992Feb17.212745.14815@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
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youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Scott D. Young) writes:
|>In <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> bmb@bluemoon.rn.com (Bryan Bankhead)
|>writes:
|>>jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
|>>Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike
|>>the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees
|>>or other objects in outlins.
|> Where do you get this from? There are (I believe) 2, count'em, 2 shots of
|> this feature. Both have the same sun angle and thus the same shadows.
they have different sun-angles.
really. don't take my word for it. they are both reproduced in hoagland's
book (which you have read, right?).
|> We will not "know" until more data is available.
I'll agree with that.
josh
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!samsung!nstar!npal!dcook
From: dcook@npal.rn.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?
Message-ID: <5614@npal.rn.com>
Date: 17 Feb 92 08:48:42 GMT
Organization: PalNet - Indianapolis, Indiana
Lines: 8
Argh!!! I missed it!!!
Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the
*stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle
flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the
astronauts? - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!
--
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!claris!szebra!spectrx!system
From: system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?
Keywords: stolen videotapes NASA
Message-ID: <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>
Date: 18 Feb 92 04:52:12 GMT
References: <5614@npal.rn.com>
Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca
Lines: 20
dcook@npal.rn.com writes:
>
> Argh!!! I missed it!!!
>
> Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the
> *stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle
> flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the
> astronauts? - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!
> --
I say if anyone has those on the net, that they should digitize the photos
and post them, so the government cannot quiet it. It would be spread all
over the world and expose the government for what it is. In an election
year too!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Anderer, System Operator system@spectrx.saigon.com
SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1 408 252 1005 szebra!spectrx!system
NO MORE BUSH! Write in Cuomo for '92! NO MORE BUSH!
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From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Our History with the Pleiadians
Message-ID: <110256.299F9478@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 13 Feb 92 22:10:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
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Lines: 18
Hello Iain!
In a msg of <07 Feb 92>, Iain Jameson writes to All:
IJ> Present Homo Sapians left Africa around 100,000 years ago.
IJ> Lucy was a Lyrian??
IJ> How long was the search? Sounds like several billion years. An awfully
IJ> long time to be looking for a home. Patient race?
From what source is this information? Very intersting...
cheers
Andre
--
Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Andre.Eichner@f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Our History with the Pleiadians
Message-ID: <110257.299F947A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 13 Feb 92 22:16:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
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Hello Patrick!
In a msg of <07 Feb 92>, Patrick Brosnan writes to All:
>> I obtained the following information from several books of Star-Borne
>> which I looked at during the 11:11 last month...
Can you tell me some about 11:11? I heared many people where in the pyramids...
cheers
Andre
--
Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Andre.Eichner@f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG
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From: jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I know what's real, don't I?
Message-ID: <16279@awdprime.UUCP>
Date: 17 Feb 92 12:14:52 GMT
References: <6780@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> <1992Feb12.002547.23168@cadence.com>
Sender: news@awdprime.UUCP
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Organization: IBM Object Technology Products
Lines: 16
jasonp@cs.uq.oz.au ( Jason Pouflis) writes:
>
> Look into something called night terrors.
> If I remember correctly,
> This is a natural function of the autonomous nervous system,
> to wake you so that you can start thinking/breathing/functioning again.
I missed the original posting, but if you're referring to what I
think you are, find a book on sleep disorders and check out something
called sleep paralysis.
Craig
-- "Democracy is the theory that Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
-- the common people know what Internet: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com --
-- they want, and deserve to get Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com --
-- it good and hard" - H. L. Mencken VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 --
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!haught
From: haught@tigger.jvnc.net (Darrell Haught)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?
Message-ID: <1992Feb18.143546.4883@tigger.jvnc.net>
Date: 18 Feb 92 14:35:46 GMT
References: <5614@npal.rn.com>
Sender: news@tigger.jvnc.net (Zee News Genie)
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In article <5614@npal.rn.com> dcook@npal.rn.com writes:
>
>Argh!!! I missed it!!!
>
>Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the
>*stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle
>flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the
>astronauts? - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!
>--
I would be interested in finding out more about it. What news station
was it on and what State.
Darrell
haught@tigger.jvnc.net
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ub4b!info-sparc1.info.ucl.ac.be!Meessen@slig.ucl.ac.be
From: Meessen@slig.ucl.ac.be (Christophe Meessen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be>
Date: 14 Feb 92 09:22:16 GMT
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We don't have enough information yet to DECIDE if this pattern is
artificial or natural although there is presumption of an artificial
nature of the pattern.
To take this decision we need more information. We (or they) have to
decide to collect the required information. This decision depends on
the 'pro' and 'against' of collecting the information and the resulting
decision.
Does any one know what are the against ? I mean real technical or financial
problems. Is it realy just politic ?
Chris.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Steelo
From: Steelo@unknown.address (Steelo)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16c6d45f@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 9 Feb 92 19:00:47 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)
You are lying.....I be fully alien, I just never told you. (Hell, and you didn't even guess!!!)
---
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Scourge
From: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: This Forum
Message-ID: <16c6b185@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 9 Feb 92 16:32:05 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: All@unknown.address (All)
I am afraid that this forum is void, as I am the only alien on this planet and no others will be here for approx. another 16 years...
---
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Alan.Hunter
From: Alan.Hunter@unknown.address (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16c704fe@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 9 Feb 92 22:28:14 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 3
In-Reply-To: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)
well YOU said it!!! You are the only alien..
---
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Alan.Hunter
From: Alan.Hunter@unknown.address (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16c70514@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 9 Feb 92 22:28:36 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 3
In-Reply-To: Steelo@unknown.address (Steelo)
oh no.. what next????
---
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Scourge
From: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16c5e972@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 9 Feb 92 02:18:26 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Steelo@unknown.address (Steelo)
You can't be, otherwise my computer would have told me! What planet are you from then?
---
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Scourge
From: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16c5e98b@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 9 Feb 92 02:18:51 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Alan.Hunter@unknown.address (Alan Hunter)
It's true.
---
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Amoeba
From: Amoeba@unknown.address (Amoeba)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16c6348f@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 9 Feb 92 07:38:55 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)
Well at least I LOOK like an alien!
Amoeba
---
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Scourge
From: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16c9baa2@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 11 Feb 92 23:47:46 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Amoeba@unknown.address (Amoeba)
And your mother dresses you funny.
---
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Scourge
From: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16c921d7@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 11 Feb 92 12:55:51 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Amoeba@unknown.address (Amoeba)
I am a human alien. You're just funny looking...
---
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Amoeba
From: Amoeba@unknown.address (Amoeba)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16c9ac4b@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 11 Feb 92 22:46:35 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Scourge@unknown.address (Scourge)
humph.
Amoeba
---
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu!v070qg5d
From: v070qg5d@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Eric M Chmiel)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?
Keywords: stolen videotapes NASA
Message-ID: <1992Feb18.164036.24483@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Date: 18 Feb 92 16:42:00 GMT
References: <5614@npal.rn.com> <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>
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In article <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>, system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer) writes...
>dcook@npal.rn.com writes:
>
>>
>> Argh!!! I missed it!!!
>>
>> Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the
>> *stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle
>> flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the
>> astronauts? - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!
>> --
>
>I say if anyone has those on the net, that they should digitize the photos
>and post them, so the government cannot quiet it. It would be spread all
>over the world and expose the government for what it is. In an election
>year too!
I've heard of this type of thing before. On an Apollo mission (can't
remember which one) they photographed a small object which turned out to be
a piece of space debris. At the time, they did not know this, and one
astronaut said they were seeing an unidentified flying object. This was
true, incidentally, because when the air force or astronauts speak of
unidentified flying objecs, they mean just that: objects which are flying
that have not been positively identified. They don't mean alien spacecraft
from another galaxy piloted by a race of superhuman beings.
Probably, the same kind of thing will happen with these latest "stolen
photos".
-Eric
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From: nikos@cs.cornell.edu (Nikos P. Pitsianis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <1992Feb16.182031.9159@cs.cornell.edu>
Date: 16 Feb 92 18:20:31 GMT
References: <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> <2417@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
Sender: news@cs.cornell.edu (USENET news user)
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In article <2417@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, dschiff@copper.denver.colorado.edu (David Michael Schiff) writes:
|> [deleted]
|>
|> But, as Hawkins said, the fun part is thinking them up.
|> Can you (or anyone else) think of the fifth theorem which is
|> the generalized form of the first four?
|>
One possible extrapolation is :
For a regular n-agon, the ratio of the areas of the circumscribed circle
and the inscribed circle is given by the formula :
1
------------
2
cos(1/n Pi)
|>
|> It would also be nice to know how he discovered the whole numbers
|> which match the ratios of the diatonic scale.
|>
|> Regards,
|> Dave
|>
For n = 3 and 4 we have whole numbers. Some other "interesting" numbers are:
1
n = 5, -----------------
1/2 2
(1/4 5 + 1/4)
n = 6, 4/3
8
n = 10, --------
1/2
5 + 5
4
n = 12, ----------------------
1/2 2 1/2
(2 + 3 ) (2 - 3 )
The whole thing is trivial, you shouldn't give any more attention
to the subject of "theorems" and Mr Hawkins.
-- Nikos
______________________________________________________________________________
Nikos P Pitsianis Internet : nikos@cs.cornell.edu
Cornell University Phone : (607) 255 3042
4130 Upson Hall, Dept of Comp Sc FAX : (607) 255 4428
Ithaca, NY 14853 Home : (607) 257 4579
______________________________________________________________________________
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <1992Feb16.203759.22078@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Date: 16 Feb 92 20:37:59 GMT
References: <9202142304.AA28308@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> <1992Feb15.031707.29226@spdcc.com>
Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System)
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In article <1992Feb15.031707.29226@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>
> All well and good except if you're looking for life you have
>to eliminate all the stars younger than about 3 Gyr... That limits
>things quite a bit... Exorcising the stars with low probabilities
>(from the other contraints...)...
Why? Didn't unicellular life show up within 1 gyr of the
Earth's formation?
James Nicoll
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spdcc!rdonahue
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <1992Feb18.221238.2596@spdcc.com>
Date: 18 Feb 92 22:12:38 GMT
References: <9202142304.AA28308@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> <1992Feb15.031707.29226@spdcc.com> <1992Feb16.203759.22078@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Organization: insert anything here
Lines: 21
jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>> All well and good except if you're looking for life you have
>>to eliminate all the stars younger than about 3 Gyr... That limits
>>things quite a bit... Exorcising the stars with low probabilities
>>(from the other contraints...)...
> Why? Didn't unicellular life show up within 1 gyr of the
>Earth's formation?
Unicellular life isn't very interesting to talk to... :-)
For the purposes of SETI-like investigations, there isn't much stock in
going for the intermediate-age stars. In terms of answering "does life
exist" - sure, but you have to figure out a scheme whereby you can determine
that the unicellular life is there. Outside of going there and looking,
you're sort of stuck.
Not that surveying the older stars are any picnic either...
Bob
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From: Amoeba@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Amoeba)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16d173df@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 17 Feb 92 20:23:59 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Scourge@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)
microorganisms don`t have eyes.
Amoeba
---
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From: Amoeba@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Amoeba)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16ce145a@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 15 Feb 92 06:59:38 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Scourge@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)
well that`s not my fault
Amoeba
---
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From: Scourge@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16ce672c@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 15 Feb 92 12:53:00 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Amoeba@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Amoeba)
And your eyes are too close together!
---
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From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 18 Feb 92 23:43:17 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be>
Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4498 sci.space:26768 sci.skeptic:20743 alt.paranormal:4398
Meessen@slig.ucl.ac.be (Christophe Meessen) writes:
>To take this decision we need more information. We (or they) have to
>decide to collect the required information. This decision depends on
>the 'pro' and 'against' of collecting the information and the resulting
>decision.
>Does any one know what are the against ? I mean real technical or financial
>problems. Is it realy just politic ?
>Chris.
Well, there are technical issues, like it's hard to build a spacecraft to
go to Mars. There are political issues, - politicians want to spend money
on other things. There are also implementaion issues, like the fact that
there's a whole planet to study, and the face will just have to wait it's
turn. And frnakly, I think NASA doesn't want to make a big deal about
observing the face because it looks kinda stupid in the professional community.
(and can you imagine telling congress you need $500 million because someone
thinks aliens left a messsage for us :).
However, I think many face activists have the wrong impression. NASA was
planning to take a picture of the face last I heard. just beacuse they don't
make it their top priority doesn't mean that they are conspiring to hide
evidence.
Josh
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From: randall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (randall embry)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 00:25:55 GMT
References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20749 sci.space:26770 alt.paranormal:4399 alt.alien.visitors:4499
I had this dream about six months ago... I was in a fairly open place,
and surrounded by people who seemed a little perplexed & angry that I
didn't remember them. They told me they had met me several times
before, and that they were real people like me who were dreaming right
now. It seemed the goal was to try to establish contact with one
another back in "the real world." My brilliant suggestion was to write
someone's phone number on my hand, so I guess I blew it. It seemed like
a fairly lucid dream; I remember sitting at a table at a restaurant, and
when a waiter came and asked me to leave if I wasn't going to pay, I
said something like "leave me alone this is my dream" and everyone
laughed.
I was quite impressed with my ability to manufacture this dream, and it
does cause me to speculate whether something like this is possible. I
was reminded of it a few days ago when I had a dream something like
this: Again I was in an open place, showing some people these really
bent up eyeglasses I had. I closed my eyes, and when I opened them,
everyone was gone, so I turned around and saw a woman standing there
who blew me off when I spoke to her. I then said "Listen, this is my
dream and you have no existence outside of it." I then gave her a
command that I am not proud enough of to post; however, she responded
by driving away on a motorcycle.
In the book "The Road Less Travelled," the author (Peck?) cites a 1972
university experiment that "proved" subjects could project images to
nearby sleeping subjects. Anyone heard about this?
Randall
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!astro.as.utexas.edu!defonso
From: defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord
Message-ID: <66941@ut-emx.uucp>
Date: 19 Feb 92 00:09:54 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs> <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Distribution: usa
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4500 sci.space:26773 sci.skeptic:20753 alt.paranormal:4400
In article <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu> jflint@csws4.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
>By the way -- for you skeptics-- How do natural processes create a
>"face-like" rock formation 1km long with bilateral symmetry and
>accurate proportions?? If this thing is natural, we _MUST_ go back to
>Mars and check it out _ANYWAY_.
> --Tog
>
Probably the same way natural processes can make clouds into animal
shapes, or rock formations in coastal areas take on human profiles.
I don't think there is any reason to believe that the images of the
Mars face represent anything beyond our own terrestrial experience.
After all, it is the image of *shadows* that appears like a face,
and NOT the rock formations, as you suggest.
There are other reasons to explore the solar system than simply to
look for images of ourselves. Let us not be so self-centered....
--
Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In Search Of...a good .sig **** "When in doubt, tell the truth." - Twain
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!ijameson
From: ijameson@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Iain Jameson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Our History with the Pleiadians
Message-ID: <6325@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>
Date: 19 Feb 92 02:23:18 GMT
References: <110256.299F9478@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Sender: news@ucs.adelaide.edu.au
Reply-To: ijameson@adelphi.oz.au (Iain Jameson)
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Adelaide, South Australia
Lines: 21
Nntp-Posting-Host: adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au
In article <110256.299F9478@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Andre.Eichner@f10.n245.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner) writes:
> Hello Iain!
>
> In a msg of <07 Feb 92>, Iain Jameson writes to All:
> IJ> Present Homo Sapians left Africa around 100,000 years ago.
> IJ> Lucy was a Lyrian??
> IJ> How long was the search? Sounds like several billion years. An awfully
> IJ> long time to be looking for a home. Patient race?
>
> From what source is this information? Very intersting...
> Andre
The 100,000 years bit is (should be) common knowledge.
My questions were directed to the author of the original post -
It was so full of inaccuracies, that I had to question his
data. His time sequences were way out.
Since he has not responded, I assume that he realises his error,
but is to shy to respond.
Iain
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm
From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au>
Date: 19 Feb 92 02:33:08 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com>
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
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In article <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com>, case@infonode.ingr.com (Bill Case) writes:
> In article <5054@otc.otca.oz>, siri@otc.otca.oz (Siri Hewa) writes:
>> But Mars face
>> stick out like a sore thumb on this picture. I think only way to get proof of
>> any sort is to go there in person?.
> ^^^^^^
> I haven't seen it, but I know Italy looks alot like a boot.
>
> If I'm paying the tax bill, what I favor is a robot IMAX camera where
> the wind sounds are recorded in 8 channel, dolby, THX, etc. If we did
> that, then millions could come close to "going" to Mars, without anyone
> actually going. We have the pictures from Apollo, but they don't convey
> the awesome feeling of standing on the moon. I want the experience.
>
Y O U C A N -
All you have to do is watch the MARS NAVIGATOR database on the Macintosh PC -
a touch-screen based videodisk product which is based on the Viking 3 surface
pictures of the Mars landscape. I think it was Industrial Light and Magic who
added the 16-bit stereo sound and the 3-d enhancement of the fly-over footage.
Does this give a realistic effect or what! especially if seen on an 8' screen
and through BOSE speakers. A bit StarWars like but user controlled, even down
to the point where the crew say to the pilot (you) things like "look out!" and
"close call" as you skim over the surface, dive into a canyon or swing around
a large volcano (20 miles across at the base). No Mars Face though :-(
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.034306.3873@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Date: 19 Feb 92 03:43:06 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs> <1992Feb13.084912.21197@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <66941@ut-emx.uucp>
Distribution: usa
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
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defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes:
|>There are other reasons to explore the solar system than simply to
|>look for images of ourselves. Let us not be so self-centered....
as someone has pointed out, mars observor launches this year, and it has
a resolution of 3 meters ... so we'll know by '94 one way or the other.
josh
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!med.wcc.govt.nz!kosmos.wcc.govt.nz!fmcg!equinox!satori!geoff
From: geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz (Geoff McCaughan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <FRi9FB3w164w@satori.equinox.gen.nz>
Date: 19 Feb 92 05:55:57 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue>
Organization: The Equinox Network CHCH NZ (Node SATORI)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4504 sci.space:26781 sci.skeptic:20770 alt.paranormal:4402
behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:
> I had posted the PYRAMIDS.JPG picture in various news-groups.
> I'm just wondering what You think about the Pyramids on mars ??
> Did You already take a look at it and what do You think about it ?
> Only optical delusion or proof of soemthing unexplainable ?
> Let me know !
Have you ever seen a ventifact?
Geoff - Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 (4 Lines)
Email: geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz - or - MCCAUGHAN_G@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
"If I post something lucid, is that satorial eloquence?"
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 05:33:14 GMT
References: <9202142304.AA28308@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> <1992Feb15.031707.29226@spdcc.com> <1992Feb16.203759.22078@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.221238.2596@spdcc.com>
Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 26
In article <1992Feb18.221238.2596@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>
>>> All well and good except if you're looking for life you have
>>>to eliminate all the stars younger than about 3 Gyr... That limits
>>>things quite a bit... Exorcising the stars with low probabilities
>>>(from the other contraints...)...
>
>> Why? Didn't unicellular life show up within 1 gyr of the
>>Earth's formation?
>
> Unicellular life isn't very interesting to talk to... :-)
>For the purposes of SETI-like investigations, there isn't much stock in
>going for the intermediate-age stars. In terms of answering "does life
>exist" - sure, but you have to figure out a scheme whereby you can determine
>that the unicellular life is there. Outside of going there and looking,
>you're sort of stuck.
>
> Not that surveying the older stars are any picnic either...
I imagine that Lovelock would suggest looking for worlds whose
atmosphere is in what should be chemical disequilibrium. Lots of O2,
for example, suggests there must be something producing it continually.
James Nicoll
Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!apple!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com>
Date: 19 Feb 92 06:22:05 GMT
References: <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20771 sci.space:26784 alt.paranormal:4404 alt.alien.visitors:4506
In article <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> randall embry <randall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>In the book "The Road Less Travelled," the author (Peck?) cites a 1972
>university experiment that "proved" subjects could project images to
>nearby sleeping subjects. Anyone heard about this?
And in his book "People of the Lie", Peck "proved" that some people
who appear to have mental illness are really possessed by devils.
(And this guy is a psychologist!!)
--
Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
"The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
- Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!astro.as.utexas.edu!defonso
From: defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <66960@ut-emx.uucp>
Date: 19 Feb 92 06:19:01 GMT
References: <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp
Distribution: na
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin
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In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...
>>In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>
>Incidentally, are you aware that Vallee became interested in studying this
>phenomenon when he found astronomers destroying observation data of UFO
>events that they could not explain?
I'm interested to know what type of observation data astronomers had
that could possibly have contributed to UFO research in the first place.
[ other deletia ]
>>So, all you have to do is to convince astronomers, and other scientists,
>>that studying UFOs is going to teach us about *anything real*, apart
>>from human self-deception!!
>
>No, not necessarily. The only people that need convincing are those who
>might be inquisitive enough to want to know what the phenomenon really,
>truly is.
Past experience has shown that many times, the phenomenon is something
quite explainable in terms of our current knowledge, i.e. weather,
hoaxing, etc. Because of this, there is not much enthusiasm among
scientists to pursue the subject when so much *real* science can be
done in the meantime.
I presume that the people who are already "working" on the problem
will let us know if they ever come up with anything substantive.
>
>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth
>about this phenomenon need apply.
Only those who have the time and money to spend on wild goose
chases, basing conclusions on anecdotal information and ignoring
the problem of unrepeatability need apply.
>BTW: Has it ever occurred to you that you may be limiting the sciences by
>allowing the study of only those things that would contribute to _known_
>fields (such as astronomy, biology, etc.)? Is it not possible that a
>study of the _phenomena_ may yield an entirely _new_ science?
I for one wouldn't call astronomy a "known" science, although I
think I know what you mean. I agree with you in principle, actually -
but until there is at least some measure of real recurrence,
I don't think it's very sensible at all to pursue that avenue.
It involves an unjustifiable allocation of resources that I cannot
accept.
>
>Don't misunderstand me. I'm not implying that we should study the
>phenomenon for the sake of creating a new science. But, by limiting
There's nothing wrong with *developing* a new science; unless
you're trying to make one where there is no scientific method
of inquiry to begin with.
>our research to those things we already know about or we are sure will
>contribute only to _known_ fields is, well...., limiting.
When the possibility for real science arises in regard to the
"UFO phenomenon", I think you'll find a great many people
interested in the topic.
>
>Jim Graham - Scepticus Realisticus
>
> -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
> Neither do they speak for me.
> ______________________________________________________________________
>| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
>| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
>| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
>| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
>|______________________________________________________________________|
--
Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In Search Of...a good .sig **** "When in doubt, tell the truth." - Twain
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!ux.acs.umn.edu!csd1227
From: csd1227@ux.acs.umn.edu (Greg Larson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.080717.11475@ux.acs.umn.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 08:07:17 GMT
References: <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <66960@ut-emx.uucp>
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Minnesota
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In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp> defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes:
>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...
>>>In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>
>There's nothing wrong with *developing* a new science; unless
>you're trying to make one where there is no scientific method
>of inquiry to begin with.
>
>>our research to those things we already know about or we are sure will
>>contribute only to _known_ fields is, well...., limiting.
>
>When the possibility for real science arises in regard to the
>"UFO phenomenon", I think you'll find a great many people
>interested in the topic.
>
>Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)
You are, of course, very wrong in that observation is an extremely important
part of science. Much of current UFO research has to do with recording
events, i.e., building up a history of the phenomena. If/when it does become
obvious that UFOs are something quite real and amazing, the information
gathered so far will be enormously useful. Surely the relatively small
number of people actively involved is a small price to pay for potentially
enormous future benefits. Your attitude represents the most unscientific
kind of thinking imagineable.
Greg.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A Survey!
Message-ID: <110563.29A1ADE3@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 18 Feb 92 21:52:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 10
Donald,
What is the purpose of your survey, i.e., objectives?
Mike
--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!behse
From: behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space,sci.skeptic,sci.physics
Subject: Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!
Summary: mars face
Keywords: mars face
Message-ID: <behse.698489924@tubue>
Date: 19 Feb 92 08:58:44 GMT
Sender: news@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de (News Manager)
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
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Nntp-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de
Hello,
I just have posted the 2 missing pictures from the book:
Leben auf dem Mars(live on mars) by Joh. von Buttlar,
to the following newsgroup:
alt.binaries.pictures.misc
Go with Your nn-newsreader to this group, tag the 2 part files
and give the command:
:decode
Then the newsreader automatically decodes the uuencoded JPEG-pictures
to Your directory.
Then get any JPEG viewer or JPEG to GIF-converter to view them.
Here comes an info courtesty of Tom Lane of the independant JPEG-group,
which describes where to get JPEG software:
If you are looking for "canned" software, viewers, etc:
There is not a lot of pre-built, no-thought-required JPEG software available
yet. This short list will no doubt grow with time.
For X Windows, John Bradley's XV version 2.00 is an excellent JPEG/GIF viewer.
It's available for FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu or grip.cis.upenn.edu. The
file is called 'xv-2.00.tar.Z' and is located in the 'contrib' directory on
export or the 'pub' directory on grip. XV's only real shortcoming is that
it does not fully exploit 24-bit displays (it reduces all images to 8 bits).
If you have a 24-bit display you will get better results from "xloadimage",
which is also available from export, file contrib/xloadimage.3.01.tar.Z.
Version 3.01 does not read JPEG files, but it will read the PPM files put
out by the free JPEG converter described below. There is also a patched
version called "xli" (see files xli.* in same directory) that does read JPEG
directly. However, xli is a quick hack rather than an official release;
caveat user. Another good choice for X Windows is John Cristy's ImageMagick
package, also available from export, file contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z. The
viewer included in this package handles 24-bit displays correctly; for
colormapped displays, it does better (though slower) color quantization
than XV.
For MS-DOS, Handmade Software offers two (rather pricy) shareware programs:
Image Alchemy and GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF (contact hsi@netcom.com for details). The
PC versions of these programs are available for FTP from wuarchive.wustl.edu,
directory mirrors/msdos/graphics, files alchmy15.zip and gif2jpg5.zip; also
from SIMTEL20 and its other mirror sites. (Image Alchemy is also available
as an executable for Sun Unix machines, but I don't know where to find it.)
GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF only perform JPEG<=>GIF format conversion. Image Alchemy
converts files between these and many other formats, and can also display
images on some types of hardware. The display option is pretty limited,
so you'll still want a separate viewer program. (WARNING: GIF2JPG produces
a proprietary file format unless you specify -j. Be sure to use -j if you
want to exchange JPEG files with other Usenet users. For that matter, it's
not real clear that you should be posting JPEG files made from GIFs; see
section 5.)
For the Macintosh, Storm Technology has released a free program that can
decode and view JPEG images (though not create them). This is called
Picture Decompress. Make sure you get version 2.0.1 or later; earlier
versions are not compatible with JFIF file format. This program can be
FTPed from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, directory /info-mac/app, file
picture-decompress-201.hqx. You'll also need a tool for adjusting file type
codes; set the type of a downloaded image file to 'JPEG' to allow Picture
Decompress to open it.
If none of the above fits your situation, you can obtain and compile the
free JPEG converter program described below. You'll also need a viewer
program, and if your viewer only handles GIF files, you'll want a separate
color quantization program (we recommend ppmquant from the PBMPLUS package
for Unix machines; on PCs, try Piclab). This last requirement will go away
with the next release of the free code.
There are numerous commercial JPEG offerings, with more popping up every
day. I recommend that you not spend money on one of these unless you find
the available free or shareware software vastly too slow. In that case,
purchase a hardware-assisted product. Ask pointed questions about whether
the product complies with the final JPEG standard and about whether it can
handle the JFIF file format; many of the earliest commercial releases are
not and never will be compatible with anyone else's files.
If you are looking for source code to work with:
Free, portable C code for JPEG compression is available from the Independent
JPEG Group, which I lead. A package containing our source code,
documentation, and some small test files is available from several places.
The "official" archive site for this source code is ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9
or 192.48.96.9). Look under directory /graphics/jpeg; the current release
is jpegsrc.v2.tar.Z. (This is a compressed TAR file; don't forget to
retrieve in binary mode.) You can retrieve this file by FTP or UUCP. Folks
in Europe may find it easier to FTP from nic.funet.fi (see directory
pub/graphics/programs/jpeg). The source code is also available on
CompuServe, in the GRAPHSUPPORT forum (GO PICS), library 10, as jpsrc2.zip.
The free JPEG code provides conversion between JPEG "JFIF" format and image
files in PBMPLUS PPM, Utah RLE, Truevision Targa, and GIF file formats.
(However, output to GIF format is not of high quality at present; ditto for
colormapped Targa and RLE formats.) The core compression and decompression
modules can easily be reused in other programs, such as image viewers. The
package is highly portable; we have tested it on many machines ranging from
PCs to Crays.
We have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use.
Companies are welcome to use it as the basis for JPEG-related products.
We do not ask a royalty, although we do ask for an acknowledgement in
product literature (see the README file in the distribution for details).
We hope to make this software industrial-quality --- although, as with
anything that's free, we offer no warranty and accept no liability.
The Independent JPEG Group is a volunteer organization; if you'd like to
contribute to improving our software, you are welcome to join.
If you are not reasonably handy at configuring and installing portable C
programs, you may have some difficulty installing the free source code.
Steve Davis (strat@cis.ksu.edu) has volunteered to maintain an archive of
pre-built executable versions of the free JPEG code for various machines.
His FTP archive is at procyon.cis.ksu.edu (129.130.10.80 -- this number is
due to change soon); look under /pub/JPEG to see what he currently has.
(The administrators of this system ask that FTP traffic be limited to
non-prime hours.) This archive is not maintained by the Independent JPEG
Group, and files in it may not represent the latest source code.
For more information about JPEG in general or the free JPEG software in
particular, contact the Independent JPEG Group at jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net.
--
tom lane
organizer, Independent JPEG Group
Internet: tgl@cs.cmu.edu BITNET: tgl%cs.cmu.edu@carnegie
Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?
Message-ID: <jms.07dr@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 18 Feb 92 18:53:12 GMT
References: <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 49
In article <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) writes:
>Asteroids can be fatal to radio careers to. It seems that former
>science advisor to radio talk show host Chuck Harder, Richard
>Hoagland, embarrassed Harder on the air, thereby severing his
>weekly spot on Harders show. Harder had been speaking publicly on
>his program about an alleged asteroid that had been, according to
>what appeared to be a New York Times story from 1977 speeding its way to
>Earth, making what the story claimed were course changes. The Times article
>duly quoted purported scientists, and sounded very legit; it turned out that
>when the New York Times Index was checked, along with microfiche copies from
>that date and several days after, no such article could be found. It was
>someone's very real looking fabrication.
It wasn't an intentional hoax (except for the idiot who circulated it as
real, whoever he was.) It's page 101 of a fictional book titled "The
Extraterrestrial Report", by Richard Siegel, John H. Butterfield, and
Jean-Claude Suares, Copyright 1978, published by A&W Publishers, Inc., 95
Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016. Library of Congress Catalog Card
Number 77-91031, ISBN # 0-89104-093-5. (Just in case anyone wants to
check.)
The book contains a number of fake government documents, fake magazine
articles, and fake newspaper articles. The government documents and
magazine articles are obvious satire. The fake New York Times articles
don't have a satirical tone, unfortunately. (Unless, considering the
publication date, the name "Lucas Hamill" is a reference to the movie "Star
Wars".)
I've often wondered whether the book could have been the inspiration for
a large part of the conspiracy scenario as we know it today. It starts
with a document found in the Truman Library in which Truman is worried
about the aliens, then jumps to the present where a SETI team makes contact
with aliens. The Federal Agency for Interstellar Contact (FAIC,
obviously) is formed to take control of the situation. They announce
that the signal was a hoax and force the shutdown of the SETI facility,
while secretly continuing work on it themselves. FAIC is a highly
secretive group, even President Carter doesn't have a clue about it.
Eventually the aliens, who are friendly, land and sign a treaty with us.
We grant them the right to fly through our solar system, and in return they
educate us about the universe. They warn us about a parasitic race who are
on their way to Earth with a large spaceship to destroy us. Eventually
astronomers detect this ship, which is covered up by claiming that it's an
asteroid. Then the race is on to figure out a way to stop it.
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?
Message-ID: <jms.07dt@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 18 Feb 92 19:05:27 GMT
References: <5614@npal.rn.com>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 31
In article <5614@npal.rn.com> dcook@npal.rn.com writes:
>Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the
>*stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle
>flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the
>astronauts? - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!
I'd be interested in it too! I heard bits of a similar story on the
Fidonet UFO echo a few weeks ago. The story I heard said that a spaceship
shot at the shuttle with some sort of beam, and the shuttle had to get out
of the way. There's a tape showing the alleged incident (in fact, the
story I heard said it was "released" rather than "stolen"), but I haven't
seen it. It was aired on a program called "ET Monitor", which I think is
on some sort of Christian satellite network but I'm not sure.
The version I heard doesn't say anything about 35 ships, just one. Also,
if what I heard about the shuttle dodging some sort of beam weapon is
correct, the whole story's integrity is suspect. Unlike every SF movie
ever made, you can't see things coming at light speed! (Although it's
possible that it was just phrased awkwardly; maybe the shuttle had to dodge
the *spacecraft*, and the beam missed or was just a warning shot.)
I haven't heard anything about the audio on the tape. There's an old story
about audio-only transmission from a shuttle that spotted an alien
spaceship, but as likely as not it was a hoax by someone on the ground.
(Shuttle audio is rebroadcast on various ham stations.)
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham
From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.142842.10181@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 15:27:01 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana
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In article <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes...
>turn. And frnakly, I think NASA doesn't want to make a big deal about
>observing the face because it looks kinda stupid in the professional community.
>(and can you imagine telling congress you need $500 million because someone
>thinks aliens left a messsage for us :).
>
>However, I think many face activists have the wrong impression. NASA was
>planning to take a picture of the face last I heard. just beacuse they don't
>make it their top priority doesn't mean that they are conspiring to hide
>evidence.
>
> Josh
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, with references, but I believe that
_congress_ gave NASA a _mandate_ to take pictures of Cydonia with the
Mars Observer.
It was not NASA's decision.
>
Jim Graham
-> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
Neither do they speak for me.
______________________________________________________________________
| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
|______________________________________________________________________|
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham
From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 15:38:32 GMT
References: <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <66960@ut-emx.uucp>
Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana
Lines: 135
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4
Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu
In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...
>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...
>>>In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>
>>Incidentally, are you aware that Vallee became interested in studying this
>>phenomenon when he found astronomers destroying observation data of UFO
>>events that they could not explain?
>
>I'm interested to know what type of observation data astronomers had
>that could possibly have contributed to UFO research in the first place.
>
_Unidentified_ flying objects comes to mind.
>[ other deletia ]
>
>>>So, all you have to do is to convince astronomers, and other scientists,
>>>that studying UFOs is going to teach us about *anything real*, apart
>>>from human self-deception!!
>>
>>No, not necessarily. The only people that need convincing are those who
>>might be inquisitive enough to want to know what the phenomenon really,
>>truly is.
>
>Past experience has shown that many times, the phenomenon is something
>quite explainable in terms of our current knowledge, i.e. weather,
>hoaxing, etc. Because of this, there is not much enthusiasm among
Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.
>scientists to pursue the subject when so much *real* science can be
>done in the meantime.
"Real" science? Define this in such a way that it directly contradicts
what I have been claiming.
>I presume that the people who are already "working" on the problem
>will let us know if they ever come up with anything substantive.
>
>>
>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth
>>about this phenomenon need apply.
>
>Only those who have the time and money to spend on wild goose
>chases, basing conclusions on anecdotal information and ignoring
>the problem of unrepeatability need apply.
My statement about "truth" stands.
What you are asking for is "repeatability" of a _particular_ sighting.
What I have been talking about is the _phenomenon_ in a collective sense.
That is undeniable. That is worth studying.
Simple question: You want repeatability. Show me how you can, in a
laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in
a nuclear fission reaction. Show me a real, honest to goodness
black hole.
Then, show me how I can repeat the same experiments and get the same
results.
The bottom line is that you can't. You can show me effects that point
to these things, but you can't _show_ me these "things".
In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.
Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists. Evidence for a particular "UFO"
(whatever that may be) does not.
Now, let me rephrase the above....
"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists. Evidence that
atom #1E37 is going to split does not.
Do you see my point?
>>BTW: Has it ever occurred to you that you may be limiting the sciences by
>>allowing the study of only those things that would contribute to _known_
>>fields (such as astronomy, biology, etc.)? Is it not possible that a
>>study of the _phenomena_ may yield an entirely _new_ science?
>
>I for one wouldn't call astronomy a "known" science, although I
>think I know what you mean. I agree with you in principle, actually -
>but until there is at least some measure of real recurrence,
>I don't think it's very sensible at all to pursue that avenue.
>It involves an unjustifiable allocation of resources that I cannot
>accept.
Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).
It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters. If you're
in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.
>>Don't misunderstand me. I'm not implying that we should study the
>>phenomenon for the sake of creating a new science. But, by limiting
>
>There's nothing wrong with *developing* a new science; unless
>you're trying to make one where there is no scientific method
>of inquiry to begin with.
Such as? You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of
the UFO phenomenon. That is blatantly false. Would you care to provide
evidence of this?
>
>>our research to those things we already know about or we are sure will
>>contribute only to _known_ fields is, well...., limiting.
>
>When the possibility for real science arises in regard to the
>"UFO phenomenon", I think you'll find a great many people
>interested in the topic.
The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time. Unfortunately,
it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because
of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject. What I
find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the
_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current
SETI research. That is absurd.
So don't preach to me about "repeatability".
>Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)
Jim Graham
-> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
Neither do they speak for me.
______________________________________________________________________
| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
|______________________________________________________________________|
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!netnews.srv.cs.cmu.edu!gerry
From: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <GERRY.92Feb19100613@onion.cmu.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 15:06:13 GMT
References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Reply-To: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU
Lines: 14
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Nntp-Posting-Host: onion.frc.ri.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: randall embry's message of Tue, 18 Feb 1992 19:25:55 -050
Randall,
Wake up! Your still dreaming (amd confusing fact with fantasy).
--
Gerry Roston (gerry@cs.cmu.edu) | II - A well regulated Militia, being
Field Robotics Center, | necessary to the security of a free State,
Carnegie Mellon University | the right of the people to keep and bear
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213 | Arms, shall not be infringed.
(412) 268-3856 |
|
The opinions expressed are mine |
and do not reflect the official |
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone, |
or any other organization. |
Path: ns-mx!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!f3w
From: f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Gellis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic
Subject: New Topic, or an Old One: Mass Drivers
Message-ID: <36709@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 16:00:59 GMT
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Purdue University
Lines: 16
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4516 sci.space:26796 sci.skeptic:20784
Followup-To:
Distribution: tub
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Keywords:
Does anyone have any information or sources on mass drivers/linear
accelerators?
I am particularly interested in what might be called "anticipated
performance data"--how massive are they, what kind of payloads will they
move, what kind of power requirements are involved, what kind of acceleration
will we see (100 gees, 2500 gees?), and so on. Also, any news or rumors
about research, planned experiments, etc.?
Thanks in advance.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime!woofer.austin.ibm.com!jlpicard
From: jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?
Keywords: stolen videotapes NASA
Message-ID: <16457@awdprime.UUCP>
Date: 19 Feb 92 14:44:17 GMT
References: <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com> <5614@npal.rn.com>
Sender: news@awdprime.UUCP
Reply-To: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Object Technology Products
Lines: 16
>
> Argh!!! I missed it!!!
>
> Did anyone catch the nightly news, I believe on Friday, concerning the
> *stolen* video tape from NASA, which shows a shot from a space shuttle
> flight of 35 disks, and some interesting audio comments from the
> astronauts? - Would be interested in hearing the total (correct?) story!
Which nightly news are you referring to? Local? In what city? More
details, please!
Craig
-- "Democracy is the theory that Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
-- the common people know what Internet: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com --
-- they want, and deserve to get Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com --
-- it good and hard" - H. L. Mencken VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 --
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!bsu-cs!twpunix
From: twpunix@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Tim Parsons)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins
Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality
Keywords: mistake, UFOs, psi, creationism
Message-ID: <1011@bsu-cs.bsu.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 17:30:43 GMT
References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
Organization: Dept of CS Ball State University Muncie In
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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20787 alt.paranormal:4408 alt.alien.visitors:4518 talk.origins:15053
We could call it "lack of rigorous adherence to the Scientific Method,"
but that doesn't quite roll off the tongue, now does it?
Examples are ubiquitous, though, whatever we call it. This fallacy is
the main point behind the scientific method, which uses controlled conditions
to try to eliminate extraneous explanations.
Tim Parsons
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!masscomp!frank
From: frank@masscomp.westford.ccur.com (Frank Tredeau)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <62772@masscomp.westford.ccur.com>
Date: 19 Feb 92 18:18:45 GMT
References: <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Followup-To: sci.skeptic
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford MA.
Lines: 26
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In article <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> randall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (randall embry) writes:
>I had this dream about six months ago... I was in a fairly open place,
>and surrounded by people who seemed a little perplexed & angry that I
>didn't remember them. They told me they had met me several times
>before, and that they were real people like me who were dreaming right
>now. It seemed the goal was to try to establish contact with one
>another back in "the real world." My brilliant suggestion was to write
>someone's phone number on my hand, so I guess I blew it. It seemed like
>a fairly lucid dream; I remember sitting at a table at a restaurant, and
>when a waiter came and asked me to leave if I wasn't going to pay, I
>said something like "leave me alone this is my dream" and everyone
>laughed.
That was no dream. That place was New Hampshire.
And you are George Bush.
F
o
d
d
e
r
Frank Tredeau Concurrent Computer Corp.
sez me
Path: ns-mx!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp>
Date: 19 Feb 92 18:35:45 GMT
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
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This is one topic covered in a recent Liberator text by Hatonn that
you might find interesting and a bit strong. "Hatonn" is a Pleiadian
Space Commander and it is left up to you the reader to determine
what is presented is valid or not. I make *no* claims on the material.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
** From Phoenix Liberator January 7, 1992 Volume XVII Number 12 **
Topic:REPTILIANS AND LITTLE GRAYS
It is time I confirm and explain the presence of massive underground
systems throughout your globe--which are very "human" oriented and
occupied. You will be told that these installations are headed and run
as a hostage situation--by aliens. Reptilians and Little Grays. BS! Are
there Reptilians and Little Grays present? Indeed! There are massive
numbers of them--all cloned, replicated and terrifying. You will further
be told that they hold your government hostage. More and deeper heaps of
lies--they are produced by the good-will dedication and greedy money
grubbing governments at the control of the Elite Committee of 300 who
operate out of Switzerland and headed by the Royal Crown of England.
These are the Satanic British Zionists originally known as the Serpent
People. This is exactly why the Reptilians will be presented to you as
the ones in control. The Serpent is the symbol of Satan and these ones
have never even bothered to lie to you about their label.
Topic:UNEMPLOYED
Sit quietly for a minute and consider numbers with me, for as these
underground facilities are coming to finished status there are a lot of
suddenly available unemployed. You are showing increased numbers of
unemployed NEW sign-ups of half a million a week. You are talking now of
millions out of work--from where? Yes, from all over, but WHY? How many
people, say, in the area of Lancaster/Palmdale, California, might you
personally know who work in the aerospace industry wherein groups work on
items which are isolated and secret with penalty of death as reward for
tattling? Almost all is done on "need to know" basis and ones are going
to realize they have been working on projects which were so unworldly as
to shock Spielberg. Worse than what appears on the surface, they are
subjected to mandatory testings, physicals, etc., where they are totally
programmed "to forget" what they have seen and heard. I am going to name
some names and places (locations) so that you can check them out as to
authenticity and then you will find it easier to accept truth as it is
unfolded to you. We will start in the local area of Southern California
in the Edwards Air Force Base area extending in a large triangular shape
which includes all the way to Pasadena, Long Beach, Palmdale, Lancaster,
Tehachapi, Mojave, Edwards and China Lake--just for starters. We have
spoken often already about the areas of "51", "72", Dulce, etc., in
Nevada, New Mexico and Arizona so we will leave it to suffice that
duplication is present in those places as well. Ones who have had the
"privilege" of tourist rides into Yucca Mountain to check out the tunnels
for planned nuclear waste sites will not be as shocked as the rest of you
unsuspecting ones. At Yucca Mountain alone there are over 35 major
tunnels which totally catacomb the mountain at all levels as deep as
several miles. There is only one tunnel open for public eyes and it is
impressive enough to stun the eyes and minds of hardened engineers. In
the Palmdale area beneath a "hanger" type building, which actually is
movable on tracks, is a multilayer technology center over eight levels in
depth and the size of a massive city. The workers are mostly
manufactured robotoids and synthetics made for labor with computer
intelligence. Human participants are of the "Ultra top-secret clearance"
personnel. At Edwards launch area in a bluff (butte) called Haystack,
there is an even larger installation underground with incredible beam
pulse systems, aircraft launchers, stealth equipment in coalition with
the Soviet Cosmosphere program with total capability of destroying the
planet in some 15 minutes. Locked into that installation is a massive
underground facility near Tehachapi called The Anthill (Northrup). There
are open silos wherein light laser systems are tested and cosmos-drones
sent out like marching armies to probe electronically. They are like
little basketballs of light running usually to blue and sometimes
golden/orange. These particular installations are carved out with
digging equipment which melts the mind as to possibilities as nothing
stops them--not rock nor metal. They are drills tipped with diamond bits
and carve a 40 ft. tunnel in mere hours. Interconnecting these
installations are high-speed transit rails with "trains" which "fly" on
an electromagnetic system off the ground at incredible speed. There has
been a lot of "blasting", also, but covered by the stories of aircraft
moving through the sound barrier and after a while it simply became that
no-one paid any attention.
Topic:BEINGS INVOLVED
I don't even like to speak much of the Reptilians because they are
dramatically for fear effect. Some are simply beings with leathered type
of covering for protection purposes and are no more than humans in
costume. The Little Grays fit into a different type of category and if
not selectively handled get completely out of control. These are both
comprised of manufactured (soul-less) beings without compassion or
feelings of any type. They are very "strong" physically and the "Grays"
can literally infiltrate into the substance around them, i.e., they can
"float" or disperse through a wall or door, etc. There is a third type
of replicated being made in the form of that which is presented to you on
television as an "Orange". These are computer-bright but basically clone
laborers. These are very human in appearance but too synthetic to fit in
with your citizenry. I am going to remind you--THESE ARE NOT SPACE
ALIENS ALTHOUGH PATTERNED FROM ORIGINAL ALIEN ENTRIES OF EONS PAST. I
hope you are beginning to get the picture, chelas. These are the
adversaries OF GOD and of we, the Hosts. They neither have the technology
to traverse the cosmos nor are they even allowed into the space beyond
the Earth orbiting system at best. These ones are led and controlled by
the entities who would Rule the Earth and they are the reflection of
hybrid, emotionless beings who serve the World Order "Elite". They are
basically Satanic tools and act on direct orders of the controllers.
Topic:WAR OF THE "GODS"
We don't speak of "Gods" as such, but the idea fits. It is the time of
sorting and separation of the participants (players) on the physical orb
called Shan (Earth). It is the time of retrieval of God's children who
are experiencing on the place for all sorts of varying reasons in
soul-growth progression. Evil intends to rule the globe and all things
thereon. But, he has already destroyed the bountiful wonders of the
globe and it cannot continue as is. Therefore, the plan is to take
control through whatever means available--preferably leaving a remnant of
Godly slave laborers and annihilation of other souled beings. This will
be accomplished in two ways. l. He will simply convince the souled
being that God is not who and what He claims to be. Those unthinking
masses will simply be led down the "primrose" paths through the mire of
lies and disbeliefs of truth. These, for the most part, will be called
Christians (by any other label). These ones will be side-tracked into a
belief system which revolves around the human physical being of, say, a
Jesus Christ or Buddha, as adequate examples. They will set their intent
upon denying and "proving" the non-presence of God, Hosts, Goodly Aliens,
etc.--anything of the Spiritual realms of Light. Their whole intent will
claim infinite experience but will be entrapped in total physical and
material matter. 2. He will simply enslave physically those who stand
against him and as ones are no longer useful, they will be slain and/or
used for testing, etc. Disease will wipe out multitudes and then wars
will annihilate millions, famine and exposure will get more and in the
interim, all dissenters will be interned in compounds if they are thought
to be dangerous to "the cause". Ones who go about their business without
great confrontation will be basically left alone if they are in areas
wherein they are no bother.
Topic:GOD WILL NOT INTERFERE
There is full understanding between the higher "commands". Our people are
not to be harmed. This does not mean that ALL know this even though ones
who attempt bodily harm are usually taken out a.s.a.p. by their own
group. The adversary will not risk encounter with my Command. God's
people are "off limits". I suggest you be making very, very sure as to
whether or not you are one of God's people. Don't ask ME! If you don't
know then you better get awfully worried. Does this mean that God's
people will not be caught in anything nasty or negative? No, many of you
will perish and no place, as such, is safer than any other. I can assure
you that you will have colds and flu, get cold and get hot, hungry and
tired just like everyone and anyone else. You WILL be allowed to fulfill
your mission whatever it might entail and you WILL BE RECLAIMED AND
BROUGHT INTO SAFETY AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME. There is time left for
action in almost unlimited manner if you utilize that time well. Things
are not in order to the point of desirability on the part of the Planners
so you will simply work within that circumstance in which you find self.
There are still some methods of assisting selves with security in ability
to barter, etc., if you use intelligence. Violence will simply get all
of our workers killed and it will not be tolerated--if I have to tell you
that point then you are going to harm more than serve good. You will be
sly as the serpent and gentle as the dove--dead martyrs serve no one.
Your job is not to fight the war--yours is to bring Truth, put it to
press, assist wherein you can by example without force or undue nagging
for each will have to know for self. We must have a "remnant" and that
means that you of my command will not act in foolishness or you will be
put to the side lest you endanger the entire lift-off program. You will
be given to know your task when appropriate and he who acts in greed will
be put to last. Know that we can beam you up into safety from Mars if
need be. I can get you aboard the Phoenix, for instance, which is far
outside your orbiting place.
Topic:OTHER PLACES IN THE U.S.
There are massive bases in Canada but some of the more important
strategic centers are, of course, around (under) Atlanta and Arkansas. In
some of those areas there were already an underground "alien" race and
massive tunneling complex. There are also ancient tunnels under
Tehachapi, for instance. The military has now tunneled right to the side
of the crystal in Tehachapi and we have now blocked their entry into that
portion of their system. Only a tiny portion of the crystal in point is
allowed the use of Earthians.
Topic:POISON WATER SUPPLY
Other bad news includes a slow and deliberate addition of herbicides into
the water systems of your cities. Most is by accidental seepage from
growing fields at very low levels of toxicity but now covering massive
areas. As water supplies dwindle in the areas stricken by drought there
will be more and more actual toxic response to that pollution. There
will also be virus infection via water systems whereby whole villages and
sections of cities will become ill within hours--simultaneously. The
cover-up is massive and "leakers" or "speakers" are dealt with instantly
by either absolute negation of "law" or injection or by death--mostly the
latter depending on the importance of the "squealer". You have ones in
the local group who are targets who managed to survive all three types of
assault. I will tell you now, it is very difficult to kill one of my
people. Usually the journey to this side is vaguely remembered and
almost always the trip itself is recalled and known at the time and again
remembered at some time later.
Topic:AM I TELLING YOU "IT IS OVER"?
No indeed. I am simply telling you that you must be ready for that next
assault on your beings as we have described it in the past. Remember, I
told you that before you are through, the enemy will blame all things on
aliens to prevent any of you being reclaimed by God--THE BATTLE IS FOR
YOUR SOULS--ONE DIRECTION GIVES TOTAL FREEDOM AND THE OTHER ENSLAVEMENT
AND YOU MUST DECIDE WHICH YOU WILL EXPERIENCE. How many will see through
the facade of the physical illusion and into the co-creatorship which
produced that illusion? When you understand God then you will also
understand that it only requires YOUR decision. It is up to YOU to
choose the gold or the gold-covered lead! Both appear the same and often
the lead covered in gold appears the more shiny and desirable to the
fleshly experience. The lead actually has more value in the higher
experiences. A guide to "clues" is also available to you who will
mentally take a look. The protocols and instructions are in place.
Bridges, passes and area dams are now bombed (mined) and tracking
stations already in place--to keep ones in the area wherein you ARE when
the curtain falls. This means a shut-down of all international travel,
and interstate travel as well, as time passes. The point is to actually
lock you into a small area of location and one in which you can be easily
controlled and accounted for. Note the closure of one airline after
another and note how many of those airline planes are at Mojave! As
surface travel is shut down those parts will be utilized for other types
of vehicles and weapons. The plan, of course, is to allow things to
appear natural in their occurrence--i.e., the markets will fall and you
will be in a depression but always with the prattling that "it is getting
better"--"just a fluctuation". You will be like the Russians--into
disaster without realizing it happened to you. In your confusion you
will get deeper and deeper into the pit until the trap is closed. Then
the government will simply pull out all resources (welfare) and it will
appear most spontaneous because, after all, a government without money
cannot maintain anything. The ignorant will remain ignorant and in
denial until it is over and some will never know differently, much less
admit that what we gave forth was right and correct. Will you go down
without revolution? Probably not, but the bigger gun usually wins,
especially if he has trained himself to be more clever. You, dear ones,
have been uneducated and many of your so-called educated adults can
neither read nor write.
** End of topic **
Don
--
-* Don Allen *- // Only | Are you ready for SETI?
Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona | The *real* "October Surprise"
Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!newstop!sun!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!noring
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>
Date: 19 Feb 92 18:04:40 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com>
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In article <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>
>And in his book "People of the Lie", Peck "proved" that some people
>who appear to have mental illness are really possessed by devils.
>(And this guy is a psychologist!!)
You seem to have made the determination (a priori) that "devils or demons" do
not exist, thus you use that to totally dismiss Mr. Peck's book and his
credibility. A true skeptic would not hold such an opinion (skepticism must
be a two-edged sword to be true skepticism). However, the burden of proof
that such people are possessed by demons is on Peck. Did he present a
compelling case and well document it? If not, then the proper conclusion
that one could say is "Mr. Peck, in my opinion, did not conclusively prove
his thesis that some mentally ill people are possessed by demons." However,
if you cannot show fallacies in how he weaved together the evidence, then you
are not in a position to *authoritatively* dismiss his work (you do have the
right, however, to hold and state any *non-authoritative* opinion that you
like). And, of course, anyone dismissing Mr. Peck's work and/or his
credibility must also put forth a compelling argument to substantiate their
dismissal, otherwise their opinion carries no weight whatsoever.
I have never read any of Mr. Peck's books, nor have I even heard of him. Thus
I am not in a position to establish an opinion on his results nor on the man
himself. If I do study his works, I may come to the opinion that the guy is
out to lunch. However, I cannot make such a determination at this time nor
will I consider what others say about him using non-authoritative opinions,
as Mr. Sheaffer stated in the above posting.
Of course, this is Usenet, and here everything goes. :^)
Jon Noring
--
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the |
| JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | caravan moves on." |
| 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101 | the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average
coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,
nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner; quoted in 1987.
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From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 21:45:49 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au>
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ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes:
>> If I'm paying the tax bill, what I favor is a robot IMAX camera where
>> the wind sounds are recorded in 8 channel, dolby, THX, etc. If we did
>> that, then millions could come close to "going" to Mars, without anyone
>> actually going. We have the pictures from Apollo, but they don't convey
>> the awesome feeling of standing on the moon. I want the experience.
>Y O U C A N -
>All you have to do is watch the MARS NAVIGATOR database on the Macintosh PC -
>a touch-screen based videodisk product which is based on the Viking 3 surface
>pictures of the Mars landscape. I think it was Industrial Light and Magic who
>added the 16-bit stereo sound and the 3-d enhancement of the fly-over footage.
I've always been impressed by ILM, but this tops it! They have data from a
probe that never existed! (there were only two Vikings). I've been thinking
about doing something like this for Venus. If anyone has any information
about programming codes, let me know.
Josh Hopkins
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!hela.iti.org!aws
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.215737.14123@iti.org>
Date: 19 Feb 92 21:57:37 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>
Followup-To: Anywhere but sci.space
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Lines: 11
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Please drop sci.space from the followups to this thread.
Many thanks
Allen
--
+ They're just jealous because they don't have three +
| wise men and a virgin in the whole organization |
| --Vincent Cianci on the ACLU suit to remove a nativity scene |
+----------------------443 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
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From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.215245.24450@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 21:52:45 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb19.142842.10181@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)
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>>However, I think many face activists have the wrong impression. NASA was
>>planning to take a picture of the face last I heard. just beacuse they don't
>>make it their top priority doesn't mean that they are conspiring to hide
>>evidence.
>>
>> Josh
>Someone correct me if I'm wrong, with references, but I believe that
>_congress_ gave NASA a _mandate_ to take pictures of Cydonia with the
>Mars Observer.
>It was not NASA's decision.
I've heard this from an unreliable source, but I don't have references for
or against it. The issue isn't all that significant though, unless someone
can prove that NASA was planning to _not_ take a picutre of Cydonia before
congress got involved. MO will go into polar orbit and take pictures of most
of Mars. Just because NASA didn't want to make Cydonia a priority doesn't mean
they planned to go out of their way to avoid taking picuters every time MO
goes over the region.
Josh Hopkins
>Jim Graham
> -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
> Neither do they speak for me.
> ______________________________________________________________________
>| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
>| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
>| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
>| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
>|______________________________________________________________________|
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From: kji+@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Kathi Iannamico)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: .. .
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.215536.75751@cs.cmu.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 21:55:36 GMT
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Originator: kji@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU
... .. .. . /.. . ... . ... .
/..
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From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com>
Date: 19 Feb 92 19:17:49 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>
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In article <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>You seem to have made the determination (a priori) that "devils or demons" do
>not exist, thus you use that to totally dismiss Mr. Peck's book and his
>credibility.
I been a BAD widdle boy! :)
> And, of course, anyone dismissing Mr. Peck's work and/or his
>credibility must also put forth a compelling argument to substantiate their
>dismissal, otherwise their opinion carries no weight whatsoever.
>
Sorry, that's backwards. Anyone ACCEPTING Peck's conclusion must put forth
a compelling reason why the "devil possession" hypothesis is correct,
and modern science is wrong.
The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on whoever makes extraordinary claims.
--
Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
"The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
- Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!rufus!j_gott
From: j_gott@rufus.math.nwu.edu (Joe Gottman)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins
Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality
Keywords: mistake, UFOs, psi, creationism
Message-ID: <1992Feb19.195824.20912@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 92 19:58:24 GMT
References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1011@bsu-cs.bsu.edu>
Sender: Joe Gottman
Organization: Dept of Math, Northwestern Univ
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This 'alibi mentallity' could also be called 'Sherlock Holmes's fallacy.'
One of his most famous sayings is "When you have eliminated the impossible,
whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Mycroft would
never have made such a mistake. :)
Joe Gottman
Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!veritas!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>
Date: 19 Feb 92 19:25:24 GMT
References: <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <66960@ut-emx.uucp> <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Distribution: na
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In article <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...
>>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...
>>>>In article <1992Feb13.024010.13816@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>>
>>>Incidentally, are you aware that Vallee became interested in studying this
>>>phenomenon when he found astronomers destroying observation data of UFO
>>>events that they could not explain?
>>
>>I'm interested to know what type of observation data astronomers had
>>that could possibly have contributed to UFO research in the first place.
>>
>
>_Unidentified_ flying objects comes to mind.
You have re-named the phemonena, not identified data astronomers
might contribute. I can see that they _might_ have observations
and possibly some photographic evidence. They do watch the sky
more often than the rest of us I would think.
>>[ other deletia ]
>>
>>>>So, all you have to do is to convince astronomers, and other scientists,
>>>>that studying UFOs is going to teach us about *anything real*, apart
>>>>from human self-deception!!
>>>
>>>No, not necessarily. The only people that need convincing are those who
>>>might be inquisitive enough to want to know what the phenomenon really,
>>>truly is.
>>
>>Past experience has shown that many times, the phenomenon is something
>>quite explainable in terms of our current knowledge, i.e. weather,
>>hoaxing, etc. Because of this, there is not much enthusiasm among
>
>Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.
Curiously, when many people _say_ UFO, they mean _alien spacecraft_.
So what they are talking about is not an unknown deserving of study,
but those darn aliens.
>>scientists to pursue the subject when so much *real* science can be
>>done in the meantime.
>
>"Real" science? Define this in such a way that it directly contradicts
>what I have been claiming.
>
>>I presume that the people who are already "working" on the problem
>>will let us know if they ever come up with anything substantive.
>>
>>>
>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth
>>>about this phenomenon need apply.
Need there be a single TRVTH? Or even just one phenomenon? I thought
we were dealing with an unknown? Hopefully I have guessed correctly
who originally said this.
>>
>>Only those who have the time and money to spend on wild goose
>>chases, basing conclusions on anecdotal information and ignoring
>>the problem of unrepeatability need apply.
>
>My statement about "truth" stands.
I tend to think that there is no truth, just different points of
view.
>What you are asking for is "repeatability" of a _particular_ sighting.
>
>What I have been talking about is the _phenomenon_ in a collective sense.
>
>That is undeniable. That is worth studying.
As many believe, and many do not.
>
>Simple question: You want repeatability. Show me how you can, in a
>laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in
>a nuclear fission reaction. Show me a real, honest to goodness
>black hole.
This seems to be a straw-man argument. The truth or falsity of the
above has no bearing upon the value of studying the "UFO phenomenon".
Nevertheless, fission, while not predictable, is quite repeatable,
and the rate can be measured. Now if only UFO observations were as
repeatable, this thread would never have existed. And there is
a pretty good theoretical basis behind black holes. What theory
perdicts UFO`s?
>Then, show me how I can repeat the same experiments and get the same
>results.
Is that not for those who claim that UFO are worth the study to
show?
>The bottom line is that you can't. You can show me effects that point
>to these things, but you can't _show_ me these "things".
>
>In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.
No argument, but where do we go from here? This alone is not
sufficient.
>Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists. Evidence for a particular "UFO"
>(whatever that may be) does not.
A flying saucer might be studied. How does one study a phenomenon?
>Now, let me rephrase the above....
>
>"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists. Evidence that
>atom #1E37 is going to split does not.
>
>Do you see my point?
I see your point. But things with boring repeatability have never
been that difficult to study.
>>>BTW: Has it ever occurred to you that you may be limiting the sciences by
>>>allowing the study of only those things that would contribute to _known_
>>>fields (such as astronomy, biology, etc.)? Is it not possible that a
>>>study of the _phenomena_ may yield an entirely _new_ science?
>>
>>I for one wouldn't call astronomy a "known" science, although I
>>think I know what you mean. I agree with you in principle, actually -
>>but until there is at least some measure of real recurrence,
>>I don't think it's very sensible at all to pursue that avenue.
>>It involves an unjustifiable allocation of resources that I cannot
>>accept.
>
>Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).
>It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters. If you're
>in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.
I think that the requirements to eat and pay the rent might
just possibly make it into the objective category. Unless you
make a living doing something else, and study the phenomenon on
your own.
>>>Don't misunderstand me. I'm not implying that we should study the
>>>phenomenon for the sake of creating a new science. But, by limiting
>>
>>There's nothing wrong with *developing* a new science; unless
>>you're trying to make one where there is no scientific method
>>of inquiry to begin with.
>
>Such as? You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of
>the UFO phenomenon. That is blatantly false. Would you care to provide
>evidence of this?
It is not possible to _prove_ that a thing does not exist.
Rather, the problem here is defining just what the phenomenon
is. Right now all we have is the 'phenomenon' label, and claims
of alien spacecraft. Would you care to try to get funding
based upon this?
>>
>>>our research to those things we already know about or we are sure will
>>>contribute only to _known_ fields is, well...., limiting.
>>
>>When the possibility for real science arises in regard to the
>>"UFO phenomenon", I think you'll find a great many people
>>interested in the topic.
>
>The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time. Unfortunately,
>it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because
>of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject. What I
>find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the
>_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current
>SETI research. That is absurd.
While I think the chances of SETI working are so slim as to
make it a wasted effort, how does one compare SETI to a conspiricy
theory, and find an absurdity. Also you claim we have a UFO
'phenomenon', not alien intelligence, how do you reconcile that
with the clear implication that UFO are extraterrestial
intelligences above?
>So don't preach to me about "repeatability".
>
>>Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)
>
>Jim Graham
>
> -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
> Neither do they speak for me.
> ______________________________________________________________________
>| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
>| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
>| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
>| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
>|______________________________________________________________________|
Rich
payner@netcom.com Sig is at the cleaners.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!sun-barr!newstop!sun!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!noring
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy
Subject: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?
Summary: We should have more open-minded skepticism.
Keywords: Open-minded skepticism
Message-ID: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com>
Date: 19 Feb 92 21:54:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20816 sci.physics:17761 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1012 alt.paranormal:4418 alt.alien.visitors:4529 sci.energy:7815
It all started from another thread:
In article sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>>You seem to have made the determination (a priori) that "devils or demons" do
>>not exist, thus you use that to totally dismiss Mr. Peck's book and his
>>credibility.
>
>I been a BAD widdle boy! :)
>
>> And, of course, anyone dismissing Mr. Peck's work and/or his
>>credibility must also put forth a compelling argument to substantiate their
>>dismissal, otherwise their opinion carries no weight whatsoever.
>>
>Sorry, that's backwards. Anyone ACCEPTING Peck's conclusion must put forth
>a compelling reason why the "devil possession" hypothesis is correct,
>and modern science is wrong.
I can agree with that, but I also still hold the original view. A small
point: I believe (and this carries no weight, just my uneducated opinion :^) )
that the existence of intelligent beings beyond the ability of our present-day
scientific instruments to detect does not necessarily run counter to modern
science. Saying it another way, the existence of "demons" and modern science
are not in conflict. You'd have to elaborate on this, and define what you
mean by modern science.
>
>The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on whoever makes extraordinary claims.
Most Definitely. We totally agree here.
***********************************************
End of this thread, now to start a new thread:
***********************************************
(WARNING: I just can't take it anymore - it's been building for a long time -
this was the straw that broke the camels back! I got to get on my soapbox and
get it off my chest.)
The rest of us, including me, should maintain a healthy, not an unhealthy
skepticism about alternative scientific theories. Unhealthy is accepting as
dogma everything we're taught, including present-day scientific theories, and
thus *arbitrarily* rejecting new theories if they seem too far away from
present-day thinking. This, taken to its logical conclusion, can lead to
oppression, suppression and censorship of those who put forth new ideas
(e.g., Galileo, who suffered under religious-scientific dogma of his day).
Of course, I demand to be shown substantiating evidence and arguments, and the
burden of proof is on the presenter; but I will give a *non-hostile*, even a
friendly, forum to anyone who puts forth theories and conjectures that run
counter to present-day thinking, no matter how bizarre. Only by fostering
such an open climate can we maximize the creativity of our scientists and
scholars, and to advance scientific understanding; a hostile climate to new
ideas will only stifle many (and fortunately not all) from working on and
presenting such new conjectures, ideas and theories, and thus stifle scientific
understanding itself.
And why do I say this? Well, it's pretty obvious from reading many postings
on Usenet that many (but not all) scientists and engineers are fairly
intolerant (read: hostile) of ideas and theories that run counter to what they
were taught and now believe. And they will go through incredible effort to
act on their hostility and attempt to suppress any scholarly discussion. Of
course, I ask, why the hostility? (Maybe a psychologist can answer this.)
I myself experienced hostility against me for posting the Bearden papers to
sci.physics and alt.sci.physics.new-theories (I admit the conjectures given in
them are different, to say the least, and I have not formed a final opinion on
these conjectures - in fact that is why I posted them so those in the physics
community could give valuable feedback). A few physicists gave me some useful
feedback (thanks!) on Bearden's conjectures; these people I highly applaud
for rising above their emotions and giving constructive criticism. However,
I received about 20 extremely hostile replies basically telling me to "keep
that shit off this newsgroup"; I wouldn't be surprised if several did not
even read the abstracts to the papers before determining that they were "shit".
I'm sure that others could give many more and better examples of scientific
intolerance, both past and present. I'd also like to get feedback as to how
institutionalized scientific intolerance is today.
(I now climb down from my soapbox fully relieved to get it off my chest.)
Anyway, that's my $0.03 worth (inflation, you know).
Jon Noring "the open-minded skeptical scientist"
--
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the |
| JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | caravan moves on." |
| 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101 | the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average
coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,
nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner; quoted in 1987.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!newstop!sun!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1mdhzm-payner@netcom.com>
Date: 19 Feb 92 23:36:38 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 72
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In article <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>In article <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>>
>>And in his book "People of the Lie", Peck "proved" that some people
>>who appear to have mental illness are really possessed by devils.
>>(And this guy is a psychologist!!)
>
>You seem to have made the determination (a priori) that "devils or demons" do
>not exist, thus you use that to totally dismiss Mr. Peck's book and his
>credibility. A true skeptic would not hold such an opinion (skepticism must
A skeptic is a doubter, someone who says things like "show me". A true
skeptic would believe nothing that has not been demonstrated, and then
doubt the demonstration.
What exactly do you mean when you use the word skeptic? It is not a
sword, of any description as far as I know, and it has no edge.
Please elucidate.
>be a two-edged sword to be true skepticism). However, the burden of proof
>that such people are possessed by demons is on Peck. Did he present a
The value of any such proof would not be all that great unless it had
already been demonstrated that demons exist. To my knowledge, the existance
of demons has been claimed for thousands of years, but proof has been
sadly lacking for those who do not believe in them already. Along similiar
lines I have heard much about magic, but I have not seen magic of the
same type demonstrated. The stage magicians put on a better show.
>compelling case and well document it? If not, then the proper conclusion
>that one could say is "Mr. Peck, in my opinion, did not conclusively prove
>his thesis that some mentally ill people are possessed by demons." However,
>if you cannot show fallacies in how he weaved together the evidence, then you
>are not in a position to *authoritatively* dismiss his work (you do have the
Who would you say is in an _authoritative_ position to talk about demons?
Will they provide proof? And by what agency would they be an authority?
>right, however, to hold and state any *non-authoritative* opinion that you
>like). And, of course, anyone dismissing Mr. Peck's work and/or his
>credibility must also put forth a compelling argument to substantiate their
>dismissal, otherwise their opinion carries no weight whatsoever.
>
>I have never read any of Mr. Peck's books, nor have I even heard of him. Thus
I have one book, but have yet to read it. Z transforms come first right now.A
>I am not in a position to establish an opinion on his results nor on the man
>himself. If I do study his works, I may come to the opinion that the guy is
>out to lunch. However, I cannot make such a determination at this time nor
>will I consider what others say about him using non-authoritative opinions,
>as Mr. Sheaffer stated in the above posting.
>
>Of course, this is Usenet, and here everything goes. :^)
>
>Jon Noring
>
>--
>=============================================================================
>| Jon Noring | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the |
>| JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | caravan moves on." |
>| 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
>| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101 | the bushes, and watch." |
>=============================================================================
>"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average
>coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,
>nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner; quoted in 1987.
Rich
payner@netcom.com
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!linac!att!att!cbnewsd!press2
From: press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Shriek of the Looney --Part One--
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.025553.10602@cbnewsd.att.com>
Date: 20 Feb 92 02:55:53 GMT
References: <6274@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 17
I thought the Pleidians were duped by the purple shades of
grey whom introduced decaf into their coffee magazines(storage
areas) without their knowledge. The loss of buzz caused the
Pleid's to grow soft and lazy, wherein the PSoG were able to
chase them off the planet and inhabit it themselves.
Thus the Pleid's ran into planet earth, where they cultivated
their precious brew once again. Many eons later did they
realize what happened to them, and decided to develop humans
to guard their magazines against further sabatoge by the
now Gray shades of Purple who were once the Purple shades of
Grey before the poles flipped on the Plaeidian planet they took
over.
But I could be wrong.
barry--
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!pacbell.com!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Summary: face of the Gill MAn
Keywords: mars pyramids, mars face, fnord
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.030659.10912@cbnewsd.att.com>
Date: 20 Feb 92 03:06:59 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <zzzk.697943798@jacobs> <1992Feb13.152533.7634@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4532 sci.space:26822 sci.skeptic:20818 alt.paranormal:4420
I saw this face when the pics first came out. I suddenly recalled
a striking resemblance to the Gill Man in the movies "Creature
from the Black Lagoon". No, could it be? I recorded the movie once
and stop framed it at the gill man's face, and sure enough. A side
by side look at virtual twins! Now, if only I can find this Gill
Man and question him about it, or better yet, if NASA could locate
him. I think he was last seen living in the Amazon river.
barry--
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham
From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.034051.10773@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 04:05:48 GMT
References: <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM> <66960@ut-emx.uucp> <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>
Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana
Lines: 203
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4
Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu
In article <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...
>In article <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...
>>>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...
>>Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.
>
>Curiously, when many people _say_ UFO, they mean _alien spacecraft_.
>So what they are talking about is not an unknown deserving of study,
>but those darn aliens.
Ah, but who cares? If you read my previous posts, you won't find _me_
attributing UFO's to "alien spacecraft". I've been arguing about the
phenomenon. Once again, someone else (you, this time) is forcing the
"alien" issue.
Why?
>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth
>>>>about this phenomenon need apply.
>
>Need there be a single TRVTH? Or even just one phenomenon? I thought
>we were dealing with an unknown? Hopefully I have guessed correctly
>who originally said this.
Absolutely. Show me where I have insisted that there is _one_ truth to
be found here.
>>My statement about "truth" stands.
>
>I tend to think that there is no truth, just different points of
>view.
No offense, but doesn't this statement strike you as rather "unscientific"?
>>
>>Simple question: You want repeatability. Show me how you can, in a
>>laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in
>>a nuclear fission reaction. Show me a real, honest to goodness
>>black hole.
>
>This seems to be a straw-man argument. The truth or falsity of the
>above has no bearing upon the value of studying the "UFO phenomenon".
>Nevertheless, fission, while not predictable, is quite repeatable,
>and the rate can be measured. Now if only UFO observations were as
>repeatable, this thread would never have existed. And there is
>a pretty good theoretical basis behind black holes. What theory
>perdicts UFO`s?
What theory predicts that atom 1E37 will divide? Look, the point I'm
trying to make is that we keep hearing that the UFO phenomenon is not
repeatable in a laboratory. Of course it isn't. But neither are other
things which we _accept_ in science as valid. I have yet to see the
difference.
Most importantly, much of science does NOT begin in the laboratory in
a repeatable setting. It begins with _something_ that raises questions.
If that "something" has raised a question, then the next step is to
decide whether we can _try_ to answer it. That is where the current
state of the study of the UFO phenomenon rests. It has never gone
beyond this.
For one to cry that there is no "repeatable" evidence of the phenomenon
is to deny the birth of other scientific advances. Many of those did
not start in a laboratory. They started with _observation_, something
that should be a holy word to science.
Fission, as a phenomenon, is deliberately repeatable. I agree.
However, there was a time when it was _not_. It was only a "theory".
How did we achieve repeatability? By studying the processes that we
thought should lead to it. Call it a bit of forensic science if you
will. In any case, we _believed_ (for the most part) that we should
be able to actually split something we could not see and still haven't.
At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth, I'll go one step further and
say that fission is NOT repeatable and NOT predictable for any particular
single atom. There is a probability that atom #1E37 _may_ divide.
>>
>>In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.
>
>No argument, but where do we go from here? This alone is not
>sufficient.
You and I agree on this. The answer seems obvious to me. You don't
argue that the _phenomenon_ is real (as I stated above). So, if this
"alone is not sufficient", we do what science dictates that we do.
We study it further.
>
>>Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists. Evidence for a particular "UFO"
>>(whatever that may be) does not.
>
>A flying saucer might be studied. How does one study a phenomenon?
Ask a psychologist.
>
>>Now, let me rephrase the above....
>>
>>"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists. Evidence that
>>atom #1E37 is going to split does not.
>>
>>Do you see my point?
>
>I see your point. But things with boring repeatability have never
>been that difficult to study.
I would venture to say that the reporting of UFO sightings occurs quite
often worldwide. Can we demand that a UFO appear? No. Therefore, it is
not repeatable on demand. So what? That doesn't change the fact that
thousands of reports occur annually.
>>
>>Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).
>>It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters. If you're
>>in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.
>
>I think that the requirements to eat and pay the rent might
>just possibly make it into the objective category. Unless you
>make a living doing something else, and study the phenomenon on
>your own.
No. That makes it especially subjective.
>>Such as? You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of
>>the UFO phenomenon. That is blatantly false. Would you care to provide
>>evidence of this?
>
>It is not possible to _prove_ that a thing does not exist.
>Rather, the problem here is defining just what the phenomenon
>is. Right now all we have is the 'phenomenon' label, and claims
>of alien spacecraft. Would you care to try to get funding
>based upon this?
I'm not asking for that. I simply meant that if you _are_ implying that
those who _do_ seriously study the subject (few as they may be) are not
doing so in a scientific manner, then you evidently have evidence of some
sort to lead you to make such an assertion.
As for defining the phenomenon...well...I don't see that as a problem.
The phenomenon _is_. If one weighs most if not all of the anecdotal and
physical trace evidence, it's clear that there is no single _cause_ of
the phenomenon. In fact, the phenomenon may be divided into categories.
And yes, I _did_ say "physical trace evidence".
I'll be happy to explain if you wish, but let's assume that I'm right.
What's the difference between this "trace" evidence and say, trace evidence
that the element Lead was once unstable? We can't repeat that can we?
>>
>>The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time. Unfortunately,
>>it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because
>>of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject. What I
>>find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the
>>_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current
>>SETI research. That is absurd.
>
>While I think the chances of SETI working are so slim as to
>make it a wasted effort, how does one compare SETI to a conspiricy
>theory, and find an absurdity.
"Conspiracy"? What are you talking about? Did I miss something?
>Also you claim we have a UFO
>'phenomenon', not alien intelligence, how do you reconcile that
>with the clear implication that UFO are extraterrestial
>intelligences above?
No, no, NO! I am not equating the two. I'm pointing out that "science"
is perfectly happy to look for something it has 0 evidence for (unless you
consider the fact that _we_ exist the evidence). Yet, when we have
thousands of people worldwide making extraordinary claims, many with
physical traces, instrumental observations, etc., we laugh it off as
nothing.
>>>Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)
>
>Rich
>
>payner@netcom.com Sig is at the cleaners.
Regards,
Jim Graham
-> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
Neither do they speak for me.
______________________________________________________________________
| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
|______________________________________________________________________|
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!lynx!cyclops.eece.unm.edu!rsquires
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins
Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality and grossly misposted maunderings
Summary: post your shit where it belongs
Keywords: wasted bandwidth, time, energy
Message-ID: <7tdhp6k@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 03:30:25 GMT
References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1011@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> <1992Feb19.195824.20912@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20820 alt.paranormal:4421 alt.alien.visitors:4534 talk.origins:15079
I've noticed in the last few days an increasing number of postings to
talk.origins that are cross-posted to groups like
sci.skeptic
alt.paranormal
alt.alien.visitors
If those who are posting this *ahem* "stuff" would take the time to direct
their replys to The One Appropriate Group I would appreciate it, and perhaps
other readers would as well. Thank you in advance!
Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!apple!netcomsv!mork!noring
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: .. .
Message-ID: <andh!zanoring@netcom.com>
Date: 19 Feb 92 23:52:26 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.215536.75751@cs.cmu.edu>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 18
In article <1992Feb19.215536.75751@cs.cmu.edu> kji+@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Kathi Iannamico) writes:
>... .. .. . /.. . ... . ... .
>/..
O.K., I give up, what does this mean?
Jon Noring
--
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the |
| JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | caravan moves on." |
| 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101 | the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average
coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,
nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner; quoted in 1987.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utzoo!henry
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.052557.5051@zoo.toronto.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 05:25:57 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com>
Followup-To: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Lines: 11
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In article <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>>You seem to have made the determination (a priori) that "devils or demons" do
>>not exist, thus you use that to totally dismiss Mr. Peck's book and his
>>credibility.
>
>I been a BAD widdle boy! :)
Please take this out of sci.space, children. :-)
--
SVR4: proving that quantity is | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
not a substitute for quality. | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.054634.27276@cco.caltech.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 05:46:34 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>,<1992Feb19.142842.10181@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Distribution: na
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Lines: 22
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In article <1992Feb19.142842.10181@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM) writes:
>Someone correct me if I'm wrong, with references, but I believe that
>_congress_ gave NASA a _mandate_ to take pictures of Cydonia with the
>Mars Observer.
>
>It was not NASA's decision.
To the best of my knowledge (i.e., do NOT take this as authoritative), nothing
in the mission profile was changed because of that mandate. The observer would
have been in an orbit that would allow such photographs anyway. All the
mandate did was to ensure that pictures of Cydonia are specifically mentioned
in the mission goals. Let's see, given Congress's tendency to verbosity and
NASA's love of paperwork, how many trees do we need for the extra paper that
that mandate will cause to be used?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA? UFO? FRIDAY NIGHT?
Message-ID: <jms.07eh@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 19 Feb 92 18:31:10 GMT
References: <5614@npal.rn.com> <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 15
In article <P2PBgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com> system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer) writes:
>I say if anyone has those on the net, that they should digitize the photos
>and post them, so the government cannot quiet it. It would be spread all
>over the world and expose the government for what it is. In an election
>year too!
While I wouldn't mind seeing one frame posted, any more would be a waste of
space. I wouldn't call videotape very reliable as a credible source
anymore. It's getting too cheap and easy to do high-quality video work.
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: lucid dreams, OOBEs, etc. [was: Dreamland]
Message-ID: <jms.07ej@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 19 Feb 92 18:40:43 GMT
References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 22
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20828 alt.paranormal:4424 alt.alien.visitors:4539
In article <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> randall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (randall embry) writes:
[experiences deleted]
>In the book "The Road Less Travelled," the author (Peck?) cites a 1972
>university experiment that "proved" subjects could project images to
>nearby sleeping subjects. Anyone heard about this?
First off, I changed the subject line because the word "Dreamland" has a
particular meaning in alt.alien.visitors. I also deleted sci.space from
the newsgroups because I couldn't see any relevance.
It would be my guess that rather than projecting your dreams to other
people, you might have been having some sort of out-of-body experience. It
would be interesting to try to prove that it was real rather than imagined
by contacting one of the people from your dreams in real life.
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <jms.07ep@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 19 Feb 92 18:54:57 GMT
References: <16ce672c@nacjack.gen.nz>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 12
Someone in NZ may want to look into getting these users, or their entire
node, terminated. I sent a message to the postmaster at the node they
appear to be coming from, but it may do no good if it's not the node
they're really using, not to mention that since it appears to be on Fidonet
it might not have a postmaster address. It would be best for someone
familiar with the connectivity down there to work on it.
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 06:22:14 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au>,<1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu
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Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
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Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu
In article <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
>I've always been impressed by ILM, but this tops it! They have data from a
>probe that never existed! (there were only two Vikings). I've been thinking
>about doing something like this for Venus. If anyone has any information
>about programming codes, let me know.
NASA's already done something like this for Venus. Well, it wasn't
interactive, but they've got a nice video clip of parts of Venus from the point
of view of someone flying over the surface. Sorry, I don't know how you would
et a copy of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.070907.21452@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 07:09:07 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au>,<1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu>
[stuff about video from 'Viking 3' delet
Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 21
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>NASA's already done something like this for Venus. Well, it wasn't
>interactive, but they've got a nice video clip of parts of Venus from the point
>of view of someone flying over the surface. Sorry, I don't know how you would
>et a copy of it.
As I understand it, the Venus video hasn't been added to NASA's collection of
'free' movies yet. (mail me if you're interested and I'll send you the adress.
They have serveral hundred films you can get for the cost of postage). I
think you can buy it from JPL though. I have seen the other 'Movies' (LA,
Earth, Mars and Miranda), but what I had in mind was slightly different from
what they did. I am thinking about doing still pictures, mostly because it
saves space, I (I should say we) don't plan to stretch the elevations any,
and with the venus data in particular, I'd like to add natural 'shadowing'
over the radar bright/dark surface data. (And yes, I realize that shadows on
Venus are a little bit of an oxymoron :)
Of course, you didn't really want to know, did you?
Josh Hopkins
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!roholdr
From: roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Date: 20 Feb 92 04:59:21 GMT
References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 63
In <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> bruce@pages.com (Bruce Henderson) writes:
>About the face.
>Let's all admit that the photographic evidence we have to go on for now is
>pretty worthless. It's not real scientific research grade stuff. And we can
>all scream and yell about what this fuzzy image enhanced thing looks like.
True, the pictures aren't nearly as good as standing on the surface of Mars
looking up toward the giant face, walking around it and seeing it in 3D. But
from what I've seen, I think it's pretty safe to infer that it is something
artificially made - probably, isn't it? If we instantly conclude that it is
[1monly[0m a geological formation, why would the American government spend
- waste the people's money studying a rock? But if it's more than just
rock - if it's the remanant of a long-dead civilization, isn't it important
that we find out what it is?
>The truth of the matter is:
>Mars Obsever goes up this year and will be in Mars orbit next year. At that
>point they can resolve that hunk of rock at with a resolution of 3 meters, many
>>times the magnification and detail of the original photo. At that point this
>whole discussion will be silly. If anyone left junk anywhere on Mars, we'll
>know by '94
It is important to note that much the same was said of the Hubble Space Tele-
scope prior to its launch. Oh yes, they said, we'll be able to see planets
orbiting distant stars - maybe even find evidence of extraterrestrial life!
But the equipment failed - just like the probe that located the Mars Face.
And I wouldn't be too surprised if the marvellous Mars Observer inherits some
strange post-launch "malfunction" just like many of its more recent
predecessors. Shouldn't we give the Mars Face a little more attention, if
for no other reason than to spur a government into actively seeking to
inform its public about the Face's true nature?
>Bruce
I think it imporant for us to verify for once and for all the existance or
non-existance of alien life, and this is the perfect opportunity. Who knows
what may be contained in the pyramids 15km away from the Face? Are the
pyramids naturally occurring geological formations that just happen to be
near the Face? Are they somehow linked to the Face's history? What can they
tell us about alien civilizations? These and similar questions make it
important for everyone from those who want to expose a giant government
coverup to those who are curious to justify the expense and effort involved
in findining out.
It is for this reason I believe that a dedicated probe should be constructed
and sent to gather additional information about the Face - examine it from
every angle - determine its exact contours, learn if the pyramids are hollow,
learn if the pyramids are pyramids, etc. And in the interests of time,
plans should be made to send anthropologists and archaeologists to the site
of the Face and pyramids with the first manned mission to Mars, to perform
more detailed examinations - examinations impossible or impractical for
probes. Plans such as this should be made now even on what little information
we have, given the potential importance of such an expedition's findings.
---------------------------------------------------------------
|R. Ross Holder, Jr. | Home Address: |
|(roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca) | 410-424 River Avenue |
|Department of Philosophy | Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada |
|The University of Manitoba | R3L 0C6 PH#: (204) 478-1744|
---------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!coert!doctor
From: doctor@coert.uucp (Daniel Klugh)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <LJwegB1w164w@coert.uucp>
Date: 19 Feb 92 19:05:20 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue>
Organization: COERT BBS (614) 268-0179
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behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:
> Hi,
>
> I had posted the PYRAMIDS.JPG picture in various news-groups.
> I'm just wondering what You think about the Pyramids on mars ??
> Did You already take a look at it and what do You think about it ?
> Only optical delusion or proof of soemthing unexplainable ?
> Let me know !
Maybe the Doctor Who story "Pyramids of Mars" wasn't a story at all.
>
> Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
> Decentral Energy Research
> email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de
The Doctor
doctor@bluemoon.uucp
doctor@bluemoon.rn.com
doctor@bsbbs.uucp
doctor@coert.uucp
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!news.bbn.com!bbn.com!ncramer
From: ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: New Topic, or an Old One: Mass Drivers
Message-ID: <kq78umINN6vj@news.bbn.com>
Date: 20 Feb 92 12:49:26 GMT
References: <36709@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Reply-To: ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Interzone Office
Lines: 29
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NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Gellis) writes:
>Does anyone have any information or sources on mass drivers...
Well, speaking only from personal experience, they're _much_ worse the
closer you get to Boston. Once you get outside 495 it's not noticiably
different from any other rural-ish area.
>I am particularly interested in what might be called "anticipated
>performance data"--how massive are they, ...
I'm not sure this is any of your business.
> ... what kind of payloads will they move...
Dodge Darts seem to be popular. Lots of Saabs. Your odd LeBaron... that
sort of thing.
> ... what kind of acceleration will we see (100 gees, 2500 gees?), ....
Your sense of scale here is totally out of line. "Gee" --even several
hundred "gees"-- may be appropriate to, say, an ohio driver, but for a mass
driver you need something more along the lines of "Oh holy shit".
>Thanks in advance.
Any time. Please call again.
N
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews
From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Shriek of the Looney --Part One--
Message-ID: <110854.29A3A05E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 20 Feb 92 12:57:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ
Lines: 28
In a message to All <13 Feb 92 12:11> Iain Jameson wrote:
IJ> `Looney' yea shall cry.
IJ> `Bugger off' yea shall command.
IJ> But the prophet shall ingore yea and continue to write, and write
IJ> and write, into the wee small hours - of things unknown and, so far,
IJ> unsaid. In a style that will cause much confusion to the educated.
IJ> By his writings shall yea know the prophet. By the billions of bits
IJ> of information shall he come amoung you, the blind, and show you
IJ> the truth. And the truth shall be written by the prophet for all
IJ> to see. For there is no getting away from the words of the prophet.
IJ> Kill files will avail you not, for the prophet writes much, and
IJ> is a master of disguise, and yea shall not know who to kill, much to
IJ> your distress.
Ha-HAAAA-Ha-ha-ha-hahahahaha!
Cheers, Iain!
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Face on Mars FAQ posting
Message-ID: <87LZGMC@zelator.in-berlin.de>
Date: 20 Feb 92 10:54:27 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.182950.1@fnalf.fnal.gov>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 38
Xref: ns-mx sci.space:26840 alt.alien.visitors:4547 sci.skeptic:20837 alt.paranormal:4429
Hmm,
I think You forgot to mention, that there are nearby the face (15 Km away) a few
"pyramids", which are more interesting, than the "face", because such
rectangular and symetrical shadows can only be produced by something artificial!
We should focus onto the "pyramids" in our discussion , because the face could
also be a "well" illuminated mountain !
By the way, I have uploaded the 3 mars-pictures in JPEG format to the new
UFO-FTP-site. Here comes the info:
Hi to all UFO-sighting-pictures interested people !
now I have found a FTP site, where we could store digitized and scanned
UFO-sighting pictures !
It is phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) and the directory is
/pub/ufo_and_space_jpgs
Try to look for new pictures and utlities how to view them regulary.
If you also have one or a few pictures to submit, please drop them to
/pub/incoming.The friendly sysop Jari will move them then to ufo_and_space_jpgs.
In this moment, there are only the 3 marsface and mars-pyramid-pictures I
have scanned from a book. But I will soon upload a lot more stuff, so we could
have a good discussion based on sightings-photos and not only words and talk !
Try to follow also the discussion in alt.alien.visitors-newsgroup !
Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de
--
*******************************************************************************
* Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: *
* EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de *
* Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: UFO-pictures-FTP-site created !!!
Summary: ufo
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <G8LZVOC@zelator.in-berlin.de>
Date: 20 Feb 92 11:03:41 GMT
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 42
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4548 sci.space:26841 alt.paranormal:4430 sci.skeptic:20838
Hi to all UFO-interested researchers out there,
here comes an info about the new created UFO-pictures-FTP-site.
The Sysop Jari was very kind to allow us to store the pictures and discussion
files about UFOs over there in Finland.
Please keep download in a limited way, cause they only have a 64 Kbits/sec.
line to Helsinki. In this moment already the access is very often verry slow !
Is there another site, that would like to create a mirror of this archive in
the US and one in Germany. Please Sysops contact me by email to create such
mirrors. Now the info:
Hi to all UFO-sighting-pictures interested people !
now I have found a FTP site, where we could store digitized and scanned
UFO-sighting pictures !
It is phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) and the directory is
/pub/ufo_and_space_jpgs
Try to look for new pictures and utlities how to view them regulary.
If you also have one or a few pictures to submit, please drop them to
/pub/incoming.The friendly sysop Jari will move them then to ufo_and_space_jpgs.
In this moment, there are only the 3 marsface and mars-pyramid-pictures I
have scanned from a book. But I will soon upload a lot more stuff, so we could
have a good discussion based on sightings-photos and not only words and talk !
Try to follow also the discussion in alt.alien.visitors-newsgroup !
Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de
--
*******************************************************************************
* Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: *
* EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de *
* Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control
Message-ID: <5661@shodha.enet.dec.com>
Date: 20 Feb 92 13:30:23 GMT
Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4549 alt.conspiracy:12368 talk.religion.newage:9397
In article <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes...
>
> ** From Phoenix Liberator January 7, 1992 Volume XVII Number 12 **
>
> Topic:REPTILIANS AND LITTLE GRAYS
Another paradnoid scitzophrinic surfaces. Go back to sleep.
Steve Food_for_the_Grays
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.origins
Subject: Re: Alibi Mentality and grossly misposted maunderings
Keywords: wasted bandwidth, time, energy
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.134205.4882@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
Date: 20 Feb 92 13:42:05 GMT
References: <1992Feb14.125304.21978@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1011@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> <1992Feb19.195824.20912@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> <7tdhp6k@lynx.unm.edu>
Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
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In article <7tdhp6k@lynx.unm.edu>, rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:
>I've noticed in the last few days an increasing number of postings to
>talk.origins that are cross-posted to groups like
> sci.skeptic
> alt.paranormal
> alt.alien.visitors
>If those who are posting this *ahem* "stuff" would take the time to direct
>their replys to The One Appropriate Group I would appreciate it, and perhaps
>other readers would as well. Thank you in advance!
I started the whole thing, and I started it with these lines:
ME>When you followup to this, please edit the newsgroups line if
ME>you want to relate only to some of the subjects!
I posted it to all those groups because I had examples for this
way of thinking coming from UFOlogy, creationism, and psi.
What is the One Appropriate Group? Probably sci.skeptic?
--
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
Because the hypothesized anomalous effect is not easily accommo-
dated within the prevailing scientific world-view, it is parti-
cularly important to assess the trustworthiness of each reviewed
experiment. - Radin and Nelson
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From: jek@cs.duke.edu (this space for rent)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A possible source of UFOs
Message-ID: <698574393@juliet.cs.duke.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 08:26:34 GMT
Sender: jek@duke.cs.duke.edu
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.
Lines: 79
(the last four or so paragraphs of this article deal with the title
matter, so skip there if you like)
Not feeling much like doing my coursework, I have been poking around
on USENET to see what is out here. A quick scan over the alt.sex.*
groups provided limited amusement (not to mention some nappy gifs I
rather wish I hadn't seen) & alt.ketchup is good for a few yocks. But
*this* group is... unique. I don't believe I have ever seen anything
more whacko in my life!
As far as I can tell, there seem to be two general types of UFO
"theories":
1) The new-age "Ashtar" or whatever theories which remind me of the TV
show "Star Blazers" (i.e. the Yamato anime movies) for some reason.
In these, some UFOs are our happy friends who want to help us be all
that we can be and will save us from the mean ETs. These theories are
somewhat dreamy and pleasant and provide an amusing escape from the
cold reality of life on Earth.
2) The conspiracy "They Live"/"V" type theories in which ETs are out
to capture us and cook us up for dinner. These theories provoke fear
into the hearts of the gullible but don't seem to serve any real
purpose, other than, perhaps, big laughs for the originators.
Each group of theories seems to have its own supporters. Of course,
the two general groupings are not mutually exclusive, i.e. the bad
aliens can sure be coming to get us while the good aliens are trying
to help us out.
Here are some things to think about:
First, in reference to Class 1 theories (nice aliens): if all of
this is true, why haven't the aliens helped us out more? We could
have avoided numerous bloody wars this century alone... If the
answer is the Prime Directive ("noninterference"), then why do we
know about them at all?
Second, in refence to Class 2 theories (bad aliens): if aliens are
super powerful, etc., why would they bugger around infiltrating our
governments and forcing us to use flouridated toothpaste and all when
they could just come and kick our asses? Furthermore, why the hell
would they give a crap about us in the first place? If they want to
have our planet to live on why don't they just wipe us all out (no
AIDS theories, please! ;)? Or better yet, terraform another planet to
have all to themselves? And what else could they possibly want from
us? If they are as technologically able as it would seem, they
certainly must not need slaves, right?
* * *
This group is, in a certain way, amusing. For the most part, however,
it disturbs me to see so many people living beyond the bounds of
reality. If the UFO phenomenon is "real", it is not a product of
external influences on Earth, it is the product of rapid change. Our
technology has outstripped the ability of our culture to cope with
change. People are suddenly faced with the choice of either adapting
or losing their marbles. The nonsense flying around here (esp. that
Phoenix thing... whew!) is ample evidence for the latter.
I am not suggesting technological regression as a solution, by the
way. I just think we need to work on developing ways to adapt
culturally to the way we are changing our lives. Then we won't have
all these people falling through the cracks and turning to UFOlogy for
comfort and/or stimulation. It is easy for the skeptics and such to
just point a finger to the posters (Don Allen comes to mind) of
this... stuff... and say "Loony!". Unfortunately, these people are
just tails of a "normal" distribution which centers somewhere around
people who like "professional" wrestling & tractor pulls & who watch
_A Current Affair_.
Although I don't pray, I do earnestly hope we will be able to adapt
our culture to the reality of who we are and what we are doing (as a
people) so that this decline in to mindlessness and worse is reversed.
And no, I am no psychologist or sociologist or anthropologist. But
everyone is allowed to have their pet theories, right? And this would
seem to be a place to spout most *anything* forth... :)
--james
Path: ns-mx!uunet!tellab5!jcj
From: jcj@sunGb.tellabs.com (jcj)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re^2: Livermore Tests 2KW Laser Beam
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.145842.24968@tellab5.tellabs.com>
Date: 20 Feb 92 14:58:42 GMT
References: <jms.07bt@vanth.UUCP>
Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News)
Distribution: na
Organization: Trough and Brew
Lines: 10
Originator: jcj@sunGb
Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb
>Did we *really* have to bring this into the conspiracy theory arena?
>There's no reason to believe that it's for anything other than its intended
>scientific purpose.
No way! The New Beam Riders of the Purple Stage will pinhole those little
grey noseless bastards and Orionid Hemorrhoids into cosmic dust! Yahoo!
Drill 'em, Dusty!
--
jcj@tellabs.com
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From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: lucid dreams, OOBEs, etc. [was: Dreamland]
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.163025.26817@cco.caltech.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 16:30:25 GMT
References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>,<jms.07ej@vanth.UUCP>
Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
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Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu
In article <jms.07ej@vanth.UUCP>, jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:
>In article <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> randall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (randall embry) writes:
>
>[experiences deleted]
>
>>In the book "The Road Less Travelled," the author (Peck?) cites a 1972
>>university experiment that "proved" subjects could project images to
>>nearby sleeping subjects. Anyone heard about this?
>
>First off, I changed the subject line because the word "Dreamland" has a
>particular meaning in alt.alien.visitors. I also deleted sci.space from
>the newsgroups because I couldn't see any relevance.
>
>It would be my guess that rather than projecting your dreams to other
>people, you might have been having some sort of out-of-body experience. It
>would be interesting to try to prove that it was real rather than imagined
>by contacting one of the people from your dreams in real life.
Then there's always the possibility that the dreams were influenced by a common
outside stimulus, which would be practically impossible to control for.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
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From: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 16:18:17 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
<1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>
Reply-To: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU
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In-Reply-To: noring@netcom.com's message of 19 Feb 92 18:04:40 GMT
Jon
If I were to say that people with acne were actuallt Martians in
disguise, would you say:
a) He's full of shit.
b) I can not form an opinion, but the burden of proof is on him.
Although what you said about skepticism being a two edged sword is
correct, there are certain ideas that can be quickly flushed without
resorting to experimentation, etc.
Like pyschotics being ingabited by demon.
Or people with acne being Martians.
--
Gerry Roston (gerry@cs.cmu.edu) | IX - The enumeration in the Constitution,
Field Robotics Center, | of certain rights, shall not be construed
Carnegie Mellon University | to deny or disparage others retained by the
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213 | people.
(412) 268-3856 |
|
The opinions expressed are mine |
and do not reflect the official |
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone, |
or any other organization. |
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From: eyal@vis.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: rec.travel,misc.misc,news.misc,tor.general,ont.general,ut.general,alt.alien.visitors,tor.news,soc.college.gradinfo,ut.dcs.gradnews
Subject: Apartment for summer sublet
Keywords: toronto, apartment, sublet
Message-ID: <92Feb20.111306est.8702@orasis.vis.toronto.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 16:13:30 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Lines: 16
Xref: ns-mx rec.travel:21212 misc.misc:7168 news.misc:4099 alt.alien.visitors:4555 soc.college.gradinfo:1467
********** APARTMENT FOR SUMMER SUBLET **********
Downtown Toronto,
From May 17th until Aug 15
Large 1 bedroom apartment (Christie and Bloor)
good location, across from park, walk to university
Fully furnished and equipped.
non smoker
call (416) 536-5273 (leave message)
email: eyal@vis.toronto.edu
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!glasgow!bru-cc!cs89ssg
From: cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk (Sunil Gupta)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space,sci.skeptic,sci.physics
Subject: Re: Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!
Summary: hmmmmm
Keywords: mars face
Message-ID: <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk>
Date: 20 Feb 92 14:01:53 GMT
References: <behse.698489924@tubue>
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK
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In article <behse.698489924@tubue>, behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:
> Hello,
>
> I just have posted the 2 missing pictures from the book:
> Leben auf dem Mars(live on mars) by Joh. von Buttlar,
>
well this is the reply from nasa (telnet 128.158.13.250)
=======START=====MESSAGE FROM NASA======10-Feb-92==10:55:00
The "face" on Mars is an interesting geological feature that resembles a face
because of its structure and pattern of shadows.
=======END=======MESSAGE FROM NASA=========================
its odd though Ive seen another mars "face" picture" but that in comaprison was
smaller and much sharper. The image that was posted appears to be no only
processed but touched up by hand. (The original showed the surrounding
landscape aswell. ) NOnetheless the phenonema is peculiar and undoubtedly we
will hear more if and when a manned mission arrives on Mars
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sunil Gupta ---- member of the studentsoft project
cs89ssg@uk.ac.brunel studentsoft@uk.ac.brunel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control
Message-ID: <29A3D176.7417@tct.com>
Date: 20 Feb 92 16:04:06 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp>
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4557 alt.conspiracy:12381 talk.religion.newage:9403
Don Allen believes in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
'Nuff said.
--
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
"Informix 4GL is not a 4G, and it's barely an L." -- John Tombs
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb
From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.171357.14364@tcom.stc.co.uk>
Date: 20 Feb 92 17:13:57 GMT
References: <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> <2417@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.182031.9159@cs.cornell.edu>
Sender: news@tcom.stc.co.uk (System Administration)
Reply-To: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)
Organization: STC Telecomms, New Southgate, London, N11 1HB
Lines: 11
Hi all,
In Cambridgeshire, England, last year another "circle" of some
mathematical interest appeared. It was roughly heart-shaped with circles of
various sizes around it. In fact it was strikingly similar to a mandelbrot set,
a complicated mathematical figure which can only be represented by a fractal.
And it was awfully pretty.
I think they're going to be even better this year.
Pat
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From: mcirvin@husc10.harvard.edu (Mcirvin)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas
Summary: On Things We've Seen Before
Keywords: Open-minded skepticism
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 18:35:27 GMT
References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com>
Organization: Harvard University Science Center
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Nntp-Posting-Host: husc10.harvard.edu
In article <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>
>And why do I say this? Well, it's pretty obvious from reading many postings
>on Usenet that many (but not all) scientists and engineers are fairly
>intolerant (read: hostile) of ideas and theories that run counter to what they
>were taught and now believe. And they will go through incredible effort to
>act on their hostility and attempt to suppress any scholarly discussion. Of
>course, I ask, why the hostility? (Maybe a psychologist can answer this.)
>
Often it's because, even if they've seen no evidence pro or con, the
ideas put forth are remarkably similar to ideas they've seen put
forth and never supported many times in the past. Ideally we would
have the time to judge every new proposition on its own merits, but
when you've seen the Ph--------ia Ex------nt thread, or some incredible
vacuum electrogravitic free energy machine, come up for the nth
time, it is hard to remain open-minded.
This, of course, does not excuse rudeness or total blindness to
extraordinary claims, and we have to watch ourselves. I was led
for a while by the detection of certain buzzphrases to reject
Tom van Flandern's statements about relativistic celestial
mechanics as severely misguided until I read the actual text
carefully and discovered that all of his factual statements were
correct. His claims are not even extraordinary, but since his
descriptions of gravitational forces include words like
"instantaneous" I immediately assumed that he was a standard-
issue paradoxer. I was quite wrong.
Matt McIrvin
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From: fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Frank T Lofaro)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: 20 Feb 92 18:03:39 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>
<GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu>
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
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In-Reply-To: <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu>
From alt.paranormal (USENET): 20-Feb-92 Re: Dreamland Gerry
Roston@cs.cmu.edu (919)
>Jon
>If I were to say that people with acne were actuallt Martians in
>disguise, would you say:
>a) He's full of shit.
>b) I can not form an opinion, but the burden of proof is on him.
>Although what you said about skepticism being a two edged sword is
>correct, there are certain ideas that can be quickly flushed without
>resorting to experimentation, etc.
>Like pyschotics being ingabited by demon.
>Or people with acne being Martians.
That is a somewhat hollow argument. You are comparing the statement
being tested to something that is obviously ridiculous and then using
that as the basis for attacking the original statement. While it would
be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by
demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many
of them are. If someone gets possessed by a demon (which I *do* believe
happens, though not very often), they will appear to unenlightened
science to be mentally ill. Modern science does not comprehend, nor is
it intended to explain, phenomina that deal with non-physical entities,
such as demons. Scientists do not understand the soul, spirits, and
demons and how they affect what appears to them to be the "real" world.
There is *much* more to the world, than just the physical plane.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Lofaro
Carnegie Mellon University
fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (128.2.11.131)
FLofaro+@cmu.edu (128.2.35.186)
Disclaimer: If it isn't related to UNIX, don't hold me responsible for
my statements.
--------------------------------------------------------------
HELLO, I'm a signature virus! Join in the fun and copy me into yours!
--------------------------------------------------------------
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From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.183623.23228@mprgate.mpr.ca>
Date: 20 Feb 92 18:36:23 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <LJwegB1w164w@coert.uucp>
Sender: spani@G (Leonard Spani)
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd.
Lines: 31
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In article <LJwegB1w164w@coert.uucp>, doctor@coert.uucp (Daniel Klugh) writes:
|> behse@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Behse) writes:
|>
|> > Hi,
|> >
|> > I had posted the PYRAMIDS.JPG picture in various news-groups.
|> > I'm just wondering what You think about the Pyramids on mars ??
|> > Did You already take a look at it and what do You think about it ?
|> > Only optical delusion or proof of soemthing unexplainable ?
|> > Let me know !
|>
|> Maybe the Doctor Who story "Pyramids of Mars" wasn't a story at all.
[sigs deleted]
Take a close look at the face on Mars...
It is a cyberman!
;-)
Leonard
--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) |
| spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t |
***********************************************************************
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From: Steelo@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Steelo)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16d291ab@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 18 Feb 92 16:43:23 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 3
In-Reply-To: Scourge@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)
Not a planet...a star. I come from Alpha Centauri.
---
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From: Steelo@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Steelo)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16d2918d@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 18 Feb 92 16:42:53 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 3
In-Reply-To: Alan.Hunter@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Alan Hunter)
Socrates was a pilot. He flew.
---
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From: Scourge@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16d270c9@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 18 Feb 92 14:23:05 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Amoeba@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Amoeba)
Little boys called Timmy Wimmy do tho...
---
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From: Scourge@p0.f20.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Scourge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Forum
Message-ID: <16d3d34f@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 19 Feb 92 15:35:43 GMT
Organization: Aliens from another Dimension.>!! ph(09)864-184
Lines: 4
In-Reply-To: Steelo@p0.f0.n0.z0.nacjack.gen.nz (Steelo)
Hate to inform you of this, but ther is no life on Alpha Centuri(Which IS a planet... (Earth is a star as well... using light reflected from the sun... basic 4th form science stuff...))
---
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spdcc!rdonahue
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com>
Date: 20 Feb 92 22:36:40 GMT
References: <1992Feb16.203759.22078@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.221238.2596@spdcc.com> <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Organization: insert anything here
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jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>> Not that surveying the older stars are any picnic either...
> I imagine that Lovelock would suggest looking for worlds whose
>atmosphere is in what should be chemical disequilibrium. Lots of O2,
>for example, suggests there must be something producing it continually.
Huh? Um... *how*?
We can't even detect them (extra-solar planets) as it is yet,
let alone differentiate between their atmospheric constituencies...
Bob
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!mott.seas.ucla.edu
From: mitch@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Crop Circles and Science News...
Message-ID: <6071@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>
Date: 21 Feb 92 00:34:34 GMT
Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU
Distribution: na
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles
Lines: 14
I just stopped by the library to have a look at the
Feb 1, 1992 issue of Science News.
Guess which issue is the only one missing!
It _must_ be a conspiracy! :-)
Anyway, is there an ftp site somewhere that has
some of these images?
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER:
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm
From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.095411.11184@cc.newcastle.edu.au>
Date: 20 Feb 92 22:54:11 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb15.214310.11847@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4568 sci.space:26865 sci.skeptic:20875 alt.paranormal:4442
In article <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
> ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes:
>
>>> If I'm paying the tax bill, what I favor is a robot IMAX camera where
>>> the wind sounds are recorded in 8 channel, dolby, THX, etc. If we did
>>> that, then millions could come close to "going" to Mars, without anyone
>>> actually going. We have the pictures from Apollo, but they don't convey
>>> the awesome feeling of standing on the moon. I want the experience.
>>Y O U C A N -
>>All you have to do is watch the MARS NAVIGATOR database on the Macintosh PC -
>>a touch-screen based videodisk product which is based on the Viking 3 surface
>>pictures of the Mars landscape. I think it was Industrial Light and Magic who
>>added the 16-bit stereo sound and the 3-d enhancement of the fly-over footage.
>
> I've always been impressed by ILM, but this tops it! They have data from a
> probe that never existed! (there were only two Vikings). I've been thinking
> about doing something like this for Venus. If anyone has any information
> about programming codes, let me know.
>
> Josh Hopkins
Josh (and others), I (CCASM) did NOT write the item re IMAX camera above, Bill
Case @ infonode.ingr.com did.
I did reply to Bill with information supplied by Apple Computer Aust. I just
checked my notes. It was Cameron McDonald Stuart, the Apple Aust. National
Education Systems Engineer who said it was "Viking 3" - who am I to know?
Perhaps he meant Apollo. It matters not. The MARS NAVIGATOR software is the
point of the discussion. It will probably have the right info in its database.
For anyone interested, as Bill was, in "going to MARS" it comes as close as you
can get at the moment.
Big Al.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!ispd-newsserver!laidbak!tellab5!jcj
From: jcj@sunGb.tellabs.com (jcj)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Where are th AZ/NM references?
Message-ID: <1992Feb20.230458.15326@tellab5.tellabs.com>
Date: 20 Feb 92 23:04:58 GMT
Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News)
Organization: Trough and Brew
Lines: 12
Originator: jcj@sunGb
Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb
Awhile ago, somebody made a series of claims re: Apache attack 'copters,
roadblocks, etc. involved in a "CEIII"-like series of events in Arizona or
New Mexico. He said he'd post specific references to local newspaper
articles allegedly written about this. Were they posted and I missed
them? Thanks.
--
jcj@tellabs.com
"...they walk amoung us ...our friends from the Pleiades and the Lyra group
.. They will help us... For they are old and wise, and we have yet to
discover a pastry that will not go soggy in the microwave."
~The Shriek of the Looney (Book III)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys
From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off
Message-ID: <6900@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>
Date: 21 Feb 92 00:54:45 GMT
References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au
Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au
Lines: 46
In <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca> roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr) writes:
>I think it imporant for us to verify for once and for all the existance or
>non-existance of alien life, and this is the perfect opportunity.
The face will not prove the existence or non-existence of alien life. If it
is not a face, then we are no closer to knowing if there are aliens or not.
If it is indeed a face, then we have one of the following possibilites:
1. It's a freak formation of nature.
2. It was created by aliens many many moons ago.
3. It was created by aliens very recently (e.g. when they discovered
that we were starting to get onto the road to space, and wanted
to let us know that they are there).
If 1, then we have neither proved nor disproved the existence of aliens. If 2,
then it doesn't prove that aliens exist _now_. Just that they may have
existed sometime in the past. It also doesn't prove that aliens don't exist
now either. 3 is the best bet, but not many people seem to give that one
credence, and there are easier ways to let us know they are there. There's
also a fourth possibility (less likely than 1, 2 or 3):
4. It was created by us before conditions on Mars degraded and forced
us to move to Earth many many moons ago (I don't really put much
store in this one, but it's a remote possibility - VERY remote).
If it's this one, then we haven't proved that aliens existed. Only that
we were a little smarter in our early years than we thought we were. But
we haven't proved that aliens don't exist either.
The "face" and the "pyramids" bear closer examination. But no closer
examination than any other rock or feature on Mars.
Cheers,
Rhys.
P.S. I believe there are some pretty strange things that have happened over
the last 40 years, of which aliens is one possible explanation. But
I have a healthy skepticism and keep my mind open.
+=====================+==================================+
|| Rhys Weatherley | The University of Queensland, ||
|| rhys@cs.uq.oz.au | Australia. G'day!! ||
|| "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" ||
+=====================+==================================+
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!news.hawaii.edu!uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!osborne
From: osborne@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Larry N. Osborne)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas
Summary: Expecting tolerance in sci.skeptic or scientific methodology
Keywords: Pointless cross-postings
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.010546.21356@news.Hawaii.Edu>
Date: 21 Feb 92 01:05:46 GMT
References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu>
Sender: root@news.Hawaii.Edu (News Service)
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In article <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu> mcirvin@husc10.harvard.edu (Mcirvin) writes:
>In article <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>>
>>And why do I say this? Well, it's pretty obvious from reading many postings
>>on Usenet that many (but not all) scientists and engineers are fairly
>>intolerant (read: hostile) of ideas and theories that run counter to what they
>>were taught and now believe. ...
>>
>Often it's because, even if they've seen no evidence pro or con, the
>ideas put forth are remarkably similar to ideas they've seen put
>forth and never supported many times in the past. Ideally we would
>have the time to judge every new proposition on its own merits, but
>when you've seen the Ph--------ia Ex------nt thread, or some incredible
>vacuum electrogravitic free energy machine, come up for the nth
>time, it is hard to remain open-minded.
>
>This, of course, does not excuse rudeness or total blindness to
>extraordinary claims, and we have to watch ourselves.
There are also those who _enjoy_ irritating people who don't have the
same frame of reference. It seems to me that posting OOBEs to
sci.skeptic is asking for a bashing, similarly the skeptics who
monitor alt.alien.visitors in order to point and laugh are morally
repugnant. At one time I had sci.skeptic in my kill file, but there
were so many cross-posts that I was missing much of interest to me. A
case in point is the Ph. Ex. refered to above. The physicists are
only going to get upset and drown the thread with flames (I mix a
mean metaphor).
The article to which I'm following up, for example, was posted to:
sci.skeptic, sci.physics, alt.sci.physics.new-theories,
alt.paranormal, alt.alien.visitors, and sci.energy. You may as well
try giving a wine tasting for an AA group(1) ... its impolite and only
causes ill-feelings. (Although alt.sci.physics.new-theories is
probably the exception, there seem to be a majority of rational and
polite scientists there.)
For those on either side of the arguments, who claim that they are
attempting to educate the other, I say it's obvious that that approach
doesn't work. Just ignore them, or, if they ask a question, answer
them briefly and politely. I realize it's a lost cause, but limiting
cross-postings to groups inhabited by the same species would make for
fewer flamefests.
-oz
(1) This analogy was chosen on purpose, since many of us _need_ the
support of the like-minded.
--
osborne@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu (preferred) | Larry N Osborne
osborne@uhunix.bitnet | SLIS, 2550 The Mall
fax +1 808 956 5835 | University of Hawaii at Manoa
or via W.A.S.T.E. | Honolulu, Hawaii 96822
Path: ns-mx!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.014725.17430@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Date: 21 Feb 92 01:47:25 GMT
References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
Lines: 15
someone who should know better(?) writes:
>It is important to note that much the same was said of the Hubble Space Tele-
>scope prior to its launch. Oh yes, they said, we'll be able to see planets
>orbiting distant stars - maybe even find evidence of extraterrestrial life!
>But the equipment failed - just like the probe that located the Mars Face.
I wasn't aware that the vikings failed.
this same person went on to say 'and probably this one will fail too';
isn't that jumping the gun a bit? I mean, wait for it to fail mysteriously,
then start into the conspiracy theories.
josh
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!kasprj
From: kasprj@operators.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control
Message-ID: <9+ss3vh@rpi.edu>
Date: 21 Feb 92 02:39:32 GMT
References: <5661@shodha.enet.dec.com>
Organization: The Big Wedge
Lines: 24
Nntp-Posting-Host: operators.its.rpi.edu
In article <5661@shodha.enet.dec.com> timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) writes:
>
>In article <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes...
>>
>> ** From Phoenix Liberator January 7, 1992 Volume XVII Number 12 **
>>
>> Topic:REPTILIANS AND LITTLE GRAYS
>
>
> Another paradnoid scitzophrinic surfaces. Go back to sleep.
>
> Steve Food_for_the_Grays
No way! I love this stuff. I'm not sure which group you read this on,
because of the wide crossposting, but here on alt.conspiracy, I live for
the UFO stuff. It's so much more entertaining than the stupid who-shot-
JFK babble or the infantile antisemitic prattlings of bARF and the b-cpu
gang.
------------------------------------------------------------------
__ Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
___/ | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Disclaimer: RPI pays me to work, not to think.
\_| "A spirit with a vision is a dream with a mission" -Rush
==== e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu
Path: ns-mx!uunet!jwt!gary
From: bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Date: 19 Feb 92 06:14:50 GMT
Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login)
Organization: The Matrix
Lines: 40
Hello from the world of the wierd and strange. This is Gary
Stollman, back from the Twilight Zone once again to give you an
idea of what has been going on lately in MY world.
It seems that I have been responsible for bringing Jesus back
to Earth, and have been through so much in the past month or two
it would take (practically) a lifetime to tell it all!
What I can tell you is that my family and friends are still
being exchanged by demons or aliens or whatever. My mom had a
stroke, and is here now in our apartment in LA, trying to
recuperate from the paralysis which has left her immobile. The
two "nurses" treating her are demon clones who have taken the
place of the real people, and they keep switching my real mom back
and forth with the fake one, whom they serve. My father is also
being switched with a fake clone constantly. As have been my two
sisters and my other relatives and friends. These things are
demonic in nature, and I have asked God for help, and he has
answered my pleas!
In the past few weeks, I have been transported by God to the
parallel dimension, where these beings come from, and back again.
The end result of this is that I have been responsible for the
start of the Second Coming of Christ. Jesus is here now, and he
is going to take care of things in a hurry! I have had the power
of God at my fingertips, as apparently I was the "Number 9" spoken
about in the musicians records, like the Beatles. I have been
able to move through dimensions like through air, and I have
helped God to stop these things from taking us over. There is
little more to say now, except tell everyone you know to pray,
long and hard! It will help.
These things have taken over all the hospitals and so forth
in LA, and the phone systems around the country. They have a base
somewhere where they are holding the REAL people they have cloned.
If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely! It is time to
stand up and be counted as human beings, not some kind of play-
things. This is Gary Stollman, signing off from LA, California,
USA.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsh!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Summary: CNN and Clones
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com>
Date: 21 Feb 92 04:28:24 GMT
References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 17
In article <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:
>
> These things have taken over all the hospitals and so forth
> in LA, and the phone systems around the country. They have a base
> somewhere where they are holding the REAL people they have cloned.
> If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely! It is time to
> stand up and be counted as human beings, not some kind of play-
> things. This is Gary Stollman, signing off from LA, California,
> USA.
Hi Gary,
I watch CNN alot...alot...alot..."`)twassle ummph, and I haven't
noticed anything unusual. What is it we should look for?
barry--
Path: ns-mx!uunet!haven.umd.edu!ncifcrf!fcs260c2!toms
From: toms@fcs260c2.ncifcrf.gov (Tom Schneider)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space,sci.skeptic,sci.physics
Subject: Re: Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!
Summary: silly silly silly
Keywords: mars face
Message-ID: <2794@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>
Date: 21 Feb 92 04:25:48 GMT
References: <behse.698489924@tubue> <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk>
Sender: news@ncifcrf.gov
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Organization: NCI Supercomputer Facility, Frederick, MD
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In article <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk> cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk (Sunil Gupta) writes:
>NOnetheless the phenonema is peculiar and undoubtedly we
>will hear more if and when a manned mission arrives on Mars
No, the only peculiar thing is how you think it means something. Our brains
are probably wired to respond to anything that looks like a face, whether it is
there in reality or not. Look at some clouds or an ink blot! Go read this:
@article{Kendrick1987,
author = "K. M. Kendrick
and B. A. Baldwin",
title = "Cells in Temporal Cortex of Conscious Sheep
Can Respond Preferentially to the Sight of Faces",
journal = "Science",
volume = "236",
pages = "448-450",
year = "1987"}
Tom Schneider
National Cancer Institute
Laboratory of Mathematical Biology
Frederick, Maryland 21702-1201
toms@ncifcrf.gov
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews
From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: New Topic, or an Old One: Mass Drivers
Message-ID: <111028.29A43C64@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 20 Feb 92 16:12:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ
Lines: 26
In a message to All <19 Feb 92 18:00> Mark Gellis wrote:
MG> Does anyone have any information or sources on mass drivers/linear
MG> accelerators?
You mean Rail Guns? Or something else (like Bull Guns?) Rail Guns are electrically powered, Bull Guns (named for Gerald Bull) are chemically powered.
MG> I am particularly interested in what might be called "anticipated
MG> performance data"--how massive are they, what kind of payloads will they
MG> move, what kind of power requirements
MG> are involved, what kind of acceleration
MG> will we see (100 gees, 2500 gees?), and so on.
No idea about performance data, but 100 g would have to be the absolute minimum. Very few payloads can withstand them. Max payload for railguns is a few pounds (could be more, but that's what I heard several years ago). Dr. Bull was experimenting with artillery payloads over over a ton, though. His guns were principally *not* orbital guns, but extreme long-range artillery.
He designed two such guns for Iraq in the late '80s (to counter Israel's Gabriel ICBMs and H-bombs). Only one was actually completed, but it was not ready when the war came. The Mossad murdered Dr. Bull in Brussels three years ago.
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews
From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: This Forum
Message-ID: <111027.29A43C62@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 20 Feb 92 15:59:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ
Lines: 12
In a message to All <19 Feb 92 12:05> Amoeba wrote:
Am> microorganisms don`t have eyes.
Am> Amoeba
Or brains.
--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!glasgow!degnans
From: degnans@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Easter Beagle)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: jpeg viewer required
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.093852.22818@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
Date: 21 Feb 92 09:38:52 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
Lines: 12
So now we've got a ufo ftp site.
All the pictures are in jpeg format!
So how's 'bout a jpeg viewer from someone?
L&K,
Stephen
.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.125941.23172@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
Date: 21 Feb 92 12:59:41 GMT
References: <9575@borg.cs.unc.edu> <2414@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> <1992Feb17.111438.21406@gibdo.engr.washington.edu>
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In article <1992Feb17.111438.21406@gibdo.engr.washington.edu>, tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu writes:
>In article <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu>nikos@cs.cornell.edu (Nikos P. Pitsianis) writes:
[..]
>>|>II) For an equilateral triangle, the ratio ot the areas of the
>>|> circumscribed and inscribed circles is 4:1.
[other similar things deleted]
>
>I think the open-minded (but not so open your brains ooze out your
>ears) skeptic (the type I like to be) would say: Yes, but is the claim
>that these theorems have never been stated before true or false?
>Statements such as: "This is too trivial to be important" or "someone
>*must* have come up with this somewhere" are rather useless, I think.
>If we take the poster at his word that he looked everywhere he could
>for them and he couldn't find them, I would say it is up to *us* to
>find them somewhere. If we can't we have to look at what the discoverer
>claims to be his source (the circles) and the explanation as to how
>they inspired him, and see if that explanation is reasonable.
This whole thing is very similar to the Dinosaur Sketch from
Monty Python's Flying Circus, where Miss Anne Elk, guest in a
TV talk show, is interviewed because she has a new theory about
the brontosaurus. It takes a lot of asking from the host and
a lot of "Ahem. Ahem." until she proudly presents that her theory
is: "All brontosauruses are thin at one end, much MUCH thicker
in the middle, and then thin again at the far end."
You see my point? This has probably never been stated before too,
and it's evident to every person who knows anything about
dinosaurs, like those "theorems" are immediately evident to every
person who understands geometry.
>The man, staring at shapes he *believed* to be made by intelligent
>beings,
You want to say there is any serious doubt of that?
>searched so hard for meaning that he found it in the form of
>five as yet undiscovered theorems. [..] No, after showing that
>the theorems are probably new, we would
>need evidence that the very layout of the crop circles was *designed*
>to lead to the discovery of these theorems and again determine if this
>seems reasonable.
As you can find Elk's Theory by looking at an image of a
brontosaurus, you can find geometric relations by looking at
an image of geometric figures. But I don't assume that anyone
would draw a brontosaurus with the intention of making somebody
else find this "new theory".
--
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
Because the hypothesized anomalous effect is not easily accommo-
dated within the prevailing scientific world-view, it is parti-
cularly important to assess the trustworthiness of each reviewed
experiment. - Radin and Nelson
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!spdcc!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!ispd-newsserver!dj
From: dj@ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones 253-1987)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!
Keywords: mars face
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.140553.1561@ssd.kodak.com>
Date: 21 Feb 92 14:05:53 GMT
References: <behse.698489924@tubue> <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk> <2794@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>
Sender: news@ssd.kodak.com
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Lines: 36
In article <2794@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov> toms@fcs260c2.ncifcrf.gov (Tom Schneider) writes:
>In article <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk> cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk (Sunil Gupta) writes:
>>NOnetheless the phenonema is peculiar and undoubtedly we
>>will hear more if and when a manned mission arrives on Mars
>
>No, the only peculiar thing is how you think it means something. Our brains
>are probably wired to respond to anything that looks like a face, whether it is
>there in reality or not. Look at some clouds or an ink blot! Go read this:
>
<reference and sig deleted>
Agreed. Anyone who has further questions should inspect the shadow cast
by the putative face. That's the shadow cast by a conical formation,
a.k.a. a mountain. If ETs had carved a face to be seen from any
angle, not just from overhead, it would have been much flatter.
Same goes for the "pyramids": the shadows cast by near-perfect cones are
the same as those cast by pyramids. For a light source at infinity,
with little or no atmosphere, the light coming in at a low angle as in the
pictures, the shaded side of the cone has sharp edges. Show me a sharp
edge anywhere in the sunlit side and I might believe in pyramids. Oh,
if you wonder where the cones came from, check out some terrestrial
volcanos.
Final note: the random cratering that covers the surface of Mars clearly
occurs on both face and pyramids. Those formations are *old*, certainly
much older than the human race, maybe even older than life on this
planet. ETs would have had to be extremely farsighted to get the
features of our faces right in advance! (Spare me the "inevitable
evolution" argument. There ain't no such animal.)
--
| Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com) --------------------------|
| Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY 14653-7300 |
| C++ will do for C what Algol-68 did for Algol! -----------------|
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!claris!szebra!spectrx!system
From: system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: .. .
Message-ID: <s1oFgB1w164w@spectrx.saigon.com>
Date: 20 Feb 92 08:20:27 GMT
References: <andh!zanoring@netcom.com>
Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca
Lines: 14
noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
> In article <1992Feb19.215536.75751@cs.cmu.edu> kji+@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Kathi
> >... .. .. . /.. . ... . ... .
> >/..
>
> O.K., I give up, what does this mean?
probably morse code, though I can't read it
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Anderer, System Operator system@spectrx.saigon.com
SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1 408 252 1005 szebra!spectrx!system
NO MORE BUSH! Write in Cuomo for '92! NO MORE BUSH!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!masscomp!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: 3CI-GWEN-ELF,Tesla and the Military part 1/2
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.063756.16287@bilver.uucp>
Date: 21 Feb 92 06:37:56 GMT
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 350
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4583 alt.conspiracy:12423
This is part of a recent Phoenix Journal that you ones might be
highly interested in. As usual, I make *no* claims on the material
and you are free to do with it as you like.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
THE PHOENIX LIBERATOR
JANUARY 14, 1992 VOLUME XVII NUMBER 13
** Introduction To Hatonn **
I am Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn,Commander in Chief, Earth Project Transition,
Pleiades Sector Flight Command, Intergalactic Federation Fleet. You may
call me Hatonn. I am come in service unto the ONE GOD of Lighted
Creation, and as "Host" unto His people who will be brought into His
places long prepared for you. My own "Captain" is Sananda, the Christed
Being you have called by many names--now one *with* Creator/Creation.
[Sananda: simply meaning of/with God]. We are not "mystical" nor even
"mysterious" aliens. We are the "Hosts" sent in preparation for His
return, bringers of Truth according to His promise and to reveal the lies
foisted upon you to claim your souls for the physical evil Elite
controllers. We come in total love and without intent of force,coercion
or judging. "Judging" is a state of evaluation of self in the presence
of Creator in which _actions_ in the physical experience are evaluated.
The information within the documents revealing Truth, _The Phoenix
Journals_ and _Liberator_, are the outlays of lies and hidden facts for
which you can find confirmation. If you don't know the problems and the
source of the problems, you can have no solutions.
I do not "channel" ; I transmit on a frequency attuned to my "receiver"
who is simply a translator of the pulses into English. This is true of
all receivers who receive from any of this Command come forth with God
for this transition of species and planet.
The receivers mostly have no reference for material given until after the
giving and then, only for their own confirmation and yours. My petition
is that you pay no attention to this _resource_ if it is confusing and
uncertain unto you--LET TRUTH STAND ALONE IN ITS PRESENTATION--THE REST
WILL FOLLOW IN PROPER SEQUENCE.
** End of Introduction **
Date:1/4/92 #2 HATONN
Topic:TODAY'S WATCH
What I am going to reprint herein is material which can get a lot of
people very "dead". I don't even see a way to acknowledge source without
undue focus. For the present I will simply thank "knowing" ones. There
WILL come a day of acknowledgment and appreciation unto you daring
ones--but alas, it is not this day. I have written recently regarding
beams, and beam bases--flying craft and "proclaimed aliens". I have
drawn pictures for you which are so outrageous that even in the local
sector there is total disbelief. Well, what I have given you is true,
ultra-top secret, and very much REAL. We will first speak of the hidden
hands on the switches and the military uses of the electromagnetic
spectrum. I will not complicate the lives of ones herein by giving
minute detail but I will give you enough to support Truth and, hopefully,
cause you to think and stop hiding in the sand-bucket.
Topic:MILITARY STRATEGY
The current military strategy of the United States does not rest on
nuclear weapons or elite strike forces, but is instead based on a
doctrine known as 3CI or C(3)I. (This stands for command, control,
communications, and intelligence.) Through 3CI, the relative strength of
your forces against those of the Soviet Union is constantly assessed, and
the intent of the Soviets to deploy and use their forces against you is
determined. 3CI provides intelligence to accomplish this task, as well
as the means to communicate with and control your forces and to command
them to counter perceived and actual threats. The overall intent of this
military doctrine is to know, instantaneously and at all times, the exact
status of your forces and those of a particular enemy. Weapons systems
are simply the instruments that are used to deter or respond to an
attack. The military group provides powerful incentives for releasing
forbidden impulses, inducing the soldier to try out formerly inhibited
acts which he originally regarded as morally repugnant. Your total
military system has become an analog of a living organism, constantly
sensing its environment, integrating information, and reaching decisions,
and then acting on those decisions by using the appropriate weapons
systems. The "central nervous system" of your nation's global military
organism is based on information-carrying electrical impulses that are
transmitted by electromagnetic fields. Its sensory organs are microwave
scanners, satellites, and sophisticated devices designed to listen to an
enemy's radio transmissions. Instead of nerves, it uses radio
communications with frequencies ranging from ELF (extra low frequency) to
superhigh microwaves. The muscles of the military organism range from
ground troops to nuclear missile systems. There are a number of "brains"
in the organism, located both in the continental United States and in
various overseas locations. The organism is capable of operating on its
own, with only the theoretical restraint of approval from the White
House. Every aspect of 3CI depends upon the unrestricted use of all
frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum at unlimited power
densities. Now, please, realize that this is not new information and we
have written extensively about this system. What is important this day
is that you must realize you have now joined forces with "that enemy" and
you have no control of anything you have in space. The enemy has
absolute and total superior capability. The last of the network was
hooked up and tested sufficiently on New Year's Day. Fortunately you are
still present to ponder it for if the testing system had ignited the
radioactive belt about your planet--you would really have a hot-foot by
now. You-the-people will be brought into control and submission in a
number of very sophisticated ways--through these systems which will send
out instructions and everything from music to biological diseases.
Topic:A LITTLE PERTINENT HISTORY
This military doctrine evolved following the end of World War II and was
then shaped by two factors. The first was the practical experience of
using electromagnetic fields for communications and sensing (primarily
radar) during the Korean War. Do you not find it interesting that Bush is
in Korea this very day? The second factor was the later availability of
transistorized equipment and the development of exotic electronic sensing
and communication systems, which occurred during the Vietnam conflict.
Vietnam was the proving ground for the basic concepts of 3CI, and it has
been characterized as the first all-electronic war--from manipulation of
individual personnel to misadventures with herbicides and mass control.
A number of advanced technologies were tested--for example, long-range
reconnaissance patrols operating far behind Vietcong lines were equipped
with solar-powered, high-frequency radios. These devices enabled members
of a patrol to communicate with one another via military satellites 200
miles up in space and to be in instantaneous communication with the White
House. Note that I did not say "President". The President at a given time
is only a show-piece utilized by the Elite Planners and there are several
replicas of the one you see moving about here and there. Also, remember,
that since that Vietnam War thousands of those Viet Cong have been
shipped to Mexico, entered your U.S. nation, and stand ready, willing and
able to blow every major dam and bridge in your nation--all the way to
the Arctic. They are special troops trained in demolition and will blow
every strategic "crossing" facility of every major city, etc., on cue. I
have written extensively about this--in detail along with the Communist
(Soviet) equipment and personnel already in Mexico and now crossing your
borders--in full view now that you are such good "friends"--tanks and
all. You are going to have to get the JOURNALS if you have any desire to
get informed at all. You can "excuse" until doomsday but it won't change
an iota of your circumstance. You can throw stones at Hatonn and
denounce and deny--but if you want the Truth and how it IS--get the
material we have furnished you! There will never again be opportunity
for such investment in your survival and passage. We cannot bring the
price of the material down any further for there is a constant deficit in
production of over $20,000 a month in trying to get you informed! I can
only ask that you honor and support America West and our writers for you
hold the gift of life and survival as well as Truth of "passage" in your
hands. So be it. This system, the doctrine of 3CI, has matured into a
global scale based on maximum utilization of electromagnetic energy and
pulse systems--mostly through the sophisticated testing on the military
"soldiers" (troops) in that Vietnam War. Two things happened; in the
physicals and injections, etc., the soldiers were implanted with
"receiver chips" whereby the instructions could be sent directly and
individually as well as in group reception. As other substances were
"tested" the manipulation could be studied by differing experiments and
enhancement of any transmission by direct control. The only restriction
ever placed on this military doctrine since its inception was derived
from the period of time immediately following World War II and during the
beginning of the "Cold War". In the early 1950's, the Department of
Defense recognized the need for some sort of "safe exposure standard" for
microwaves. This led directly to the establishment of the Tri-Services
Program, based in the Rome Air Development center in Rome, New York,
which was given the task of determining this standard. However, even
before the Tri-Services Program began, the military eagerly adopted the
concept that only thermal effects were damaging to living organisms.
Based solely in calculations, the magic figure of 10 milliwatts per
square centimeter was adopted by the Air Force as the standard for safe
exposure. Subsequently, the thermal-effects concept has dominated policy
decisions to the complete exclusion of nonthermal bioeffects. While the
10 mW/cm2 standard was limited to microwave frequencies, the thermal
concept was extended to all other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Unless it heated tissue, electromagnetic radiation was thought to be
harmless, so there were no limits placed on exposure to frequencies below
microwave.
Topic:THE CONSPIRACY
The military organism was designed on the 10-mW standard and, once in
place, it had to be defended against the possibility of nonthermal
bioeffects. The recognition and validation of these effects would mean
the collapse of the total organism and the death of 3CI. By the early
1970's it was fully apparent that scientists and engineers involved in
the program were sucked into a massive conspiracy--especially in the
early programs involving electrical control systems and the bioeffects of
electromagnetic fields. It was quickly seen that evidence for nonthermal
effects was viewed as a total threat to national security. Safety was
not a consideration, because the military mind-set of the time held that
despite the lack of actual hostilities, you were in a state of war with
the Soviet Union--and dear ones, it has never before or since been
otherwise. It was known that your ability to prevail in that conflict
required the virtually unlimited use of electromagnetic energy for all four
facets of the 3CI doctrine. This view led to the policy of denying any
nonthermal effects from any electromagnetic usage, whether military or
civilian. To accomplish this policy objective, several specific actions were
taken, as follows: Control over the scientific establishment was maintained
by allocating research funds in such a way as to ensure that only "approved"
projects--that is, projects that would not challenge the thermal-effects
standard--would be undertaken. Further, the natural reactionary tendency
of science was capitalized upon by enlisting the support of prominent
members of the engineering and biological professions. In some
instances, scientists were told that nonthermal effects did occur, but
that national security objectives required that they be exceptionally
well established before they became public knowledge. Many scientists'
goals were subverted by unlimited grant funding from the military and by
easy access to the scientific literature. The formal scientific
establishments of the United States were mobilized. When serious
challenges to the thermal-effects standard were raised publicly, eminent
scientific boards, associations, or foundations were provided with
lucrative "contracts" to evaluate the state of knowledge of bioeffects of
electromagnetic fields. These investigations resulted in the production
of voluminous "reports". All of those reports shared certain
characteristics. Scientific data indicating nonthermal bioeffects were
either ignored or subjected to extensive and destructive review. Those
examined were required to have much higher standards of possible validity
than reports indicating no such bioeffects. Scientists who reported the
existence of nonther-mal bioeffects were ridiculed and were portrayed as
being outside of the mainstream, nuts and nit-wit troublemakers. Actual
disinformation was utilized and still is, to create a false impression:
for example, while a statement such as "There is no evidence for any
effects of pulsed magnetic fields on humans" would have been literally
true, it would have ignored the many reports of such effects on
laboratory animals and the fact that no actual tests had been conducted
on humans. It was common practice to include an "executive summary" with
the massive report. These summaries never reflected the data that were
actually hidden in the full report. A group of "manufactured" experts
was produced to serve as spokesmen and expert witnesses. Does this all
sound familiar? How about a few "UFO experts" which are never backed-up
and yet the public is always given the old "...there is no evidence to
back up.......". Further, the reporters will give you this line
immediately after giving you a report on present "evidence". It will all
be mechanically "read" to you with a "new type of grasshopper found in
South Africa" having just as much emphasis and importance as given a 10.6
earthquake in Indiana. These were people with few qualifications for
research in this (or any) scientific field related or otherwise, who were
provided with magnificently large research grants and placed on many
committees, boards, and international governmental commissions dealing
with the bioeffects of electromagnetic energy. Superficially, they
appeared to be prominent researchers, until one discovered that the
actual number of scientific papers they had produced was minimal or nil.
These "experts" were, and still are, used to testify in legal proceedings
dealing with civilian installations such as power lines and
microwave-relay systems. Scientists who persisted in publicly raising
the issue of harmful effects from any portion of the electromagnetic
spectrum were discredited, disposed of and/or literally "taken-out" or
"adjusted"--whichever better serves the ongoing purpose. An "adjusted"
person can still be functionally active according to the "new
programming".
Topic:WILL THE GOVERNMENT DENY ALL THIS MATERIAL I BRING?
Of course--through the UFO disinformers, conspirators, etc. But worse,
they don't really mind the information now flowing to you-the-people for
early on it is recognized that most of you readers will simply deny it
and throw it out. Then, as proof is brought forth it will be used to
show you how "trapped they were" and "had to cover it for your own good"
and "after all, those nasty little aliens made us do it!" In other
words, there is such a mess going on that they don't really know HOW TO
BREAK THE NEWS TO YOU WITHOUT GIVING THEIR OWN "COVER" AWAY. THAT WILL
NOT BE IN POINT A BIT LATER ON AFTER YOU HAVE NO GUNS! In fact, chelas,
much of the confirming information comes to us via undercover operatives
of the government itself--hoping we use it to set up the uncovering
scenario above. It is simply one of the higher forms of deceit and
insulting usage of your intelligence. Despite the application of these
measures, the question of harmful effects did not go away but instead
increased in intensity. The position of the government has thus been
forced to change. The government's initial complete denial of any
nonthermal effects was followed by acceptance of some nonthermal effects,
although these were characterized as being unimportant and transient. At
present, the official position is that while there are some nonthermal
effects that may be harmful, further study is required before any sudden
action is taken. These studies are going on, but all are under the aegis
of either the Defense Department or the industry involved. And, of
course, this only includes the range of electromagnetic spectrum in
point--it does not include beam weaponry as such. The policy objective
as presented has been achieved, and the exposure of both civilians and
military personnel to electromagnetic radiation continues. You are not
dying of cancers caused by sugar in your pop--you are a planet being
radiated to death! There has not been given you an exposure safe chart
like your ideal weight charts. That is because you are all in terminal
contamination with no intent to change the thrust. There is ample
reason, chelas, to be pretty sure that it basically remains pretty fixed
at the now discredited 10 mW/cm2 standard, or even higher in certain
essential situations. The reason given is the lead time needed for
weapons-system development--in other words, the ends justify the means
and disinformation. After all, you are only servants and intended slaves
for the Elite. Also, there are too many of you anyway and that alone is a
major problem--you are nothing except laboratory test animals to this
group of would-be rulers. Operation at lower power levels would
materi-ally degrade system performance, allegedly producing a situation
hazardous to national security. Deployment of powerful and exotic
electromagnetic systems continues, with little, if any, consideration
given to the potential impact of these systems on the health and safety
of the public.
Topic:THE GROUND-WAVE EMERGENCY NETWORK (GWEN)
While there are many such weapons systems, the GWEN system is a
particularly good example. GWEN is a communications system which has now
been connected and major construction completed (putting a lot more
workers in the unemployment lines). It operates in the very low
frequency (VLF) range, with transmissions between 150 and 175 kHz. This
VLF range was selected because its signals travel by means of ground
waves--electromagnetic fields that hug the ground--rather than by
radiating into the atmosphere. This is a dandy way to get across the
Arctic regions and encircle the globe quite effectively and most
easily--i.e., that touted "Woodpecker" system. This also accounts for
the "Wormwood" code--because it can burrow like an earthworm without
interference by any substance--right through rock, water, etc. It is a
bit confused by large pools of oil and/or fat cells. A chubby body is
not always such a bad thing to have if you are in line of direction or a
target for the individual take-out beams. The only protection on Earth
comes from the frequencies our Command can offer to physically disrupt
the pulses. I suggest you remember that when you denounce your higher
brethren. The signals drop off quite sharply with distance, and a single
GWEN station transmits to a 360-degree circle radiating out from it to a
distance of about 250 to 300 miles. So now you have it--a need for
repetitive relay stations--a full GRID, if you will. This is now in
total operation in conjunction with the Elite to every part of the
globe. In addition the Elite warriors have a total blanket of
Cosmospheres and Platforms to insure control of that system. These are
NOT hostile "aliens" unless you call a "foreign person" an "alien". The
GWEN system consists of stations, each with a tower 300-500 feet high and
you won't think anything about them other than "television", "radio",
phone relays, etc. The stations are spaced from 200 to 250 miles apart,
so that a signal can go from coast to coast by hopping from one station
to another. The back-up is a total system which also bounces off
satellites so that, as of now, 1992, the entire civilian population of
the United States (and world) are exposed to these GWEN transmissions.
The rationale for the existence of this network is the government's
projected concept that nuclear war is winnable if a fail-safe
communications system is available for use during and following a nuclear
attack. It is more deceit to make you fork up the manpower and money for
the system without having to resort to the "black budget black-hole".
Such a system, they will tell you, would permit the U.S. to order its
nuclear-missile submarine fleet to launch an attack against the aggressor
nation. The physical nature of nuclear war requires that this system
operate by ground-wave transmission. Big Brother is really taking care
of you little citizens!
--------------------Continued in GWEN part 2 -------------------------------
Don
--
-* Don Allen *- // Only | Are you ready for SETI?
Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona | The *real* "October Surprise"
Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!danwell
From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!
Keywords: mars face
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.090431@IASTATE.EDU>
Date: 21 Feb 92 15:04:31 GMT
References: <behse.698489924@tubue> <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk> <2794@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>
Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Organization: Iowa State University
Lines: 23
In article <2794@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>, toms@fcs260c2.ncifcrf.gov (Tom Schneider)
writes:
[references deleted at end]
>Sunil Gupta writes:
>>Nonetheless the phenonema is peculiar and undoubtedly we
>>will hear more if and when a manned mission arrives on Mars
>
>
> No, the only peculiar thing is how you think it means something. Our
>brains are probably wired to respond to anything that looks like a face,
>whether it is there in reality or not. Look at some clouds or an ink blot!
I remember reading an article in Science 86, not long before it folded,
about the horrible time that industrial light and magic had simulating faces.
They were sure they had done as good a job on the faces as everything else
and yet the faces looked fake. Their working hypothisis is that the human
brain is exceptionally good at recognizing faces.
> Tom Schneider
> National Cancer Institute
> Laboratory of Mathematical Biology
> Frederick, Maryland 21702-1201
> toms@ncifcrf.gov
Path: ns-mx!uunet!tellab5!jcj
From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.145353.24991@tellab5.tellabs.com>
Date: 21 Feb 92 14:53:53 GMT
References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com>
Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News)
Organization: Trough and Brew
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb
In article <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
>> If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely! It is time to
>
>I watch CNN alot...alot...alot..."`)twassle ummph, and I haven't
>noticed anything unusual. What is it we should look for?
They screwed up the Lynn Russell clone's hair color. And I mean
BIGTIME.
--
jcj@tellabs.com
"...they walk amoung us ...our friends from the Pleiades and the Lyra group
.. They will help us... For they are old and wise, and we have yet to
discover a pastry that will not go soggy in the microwave."
~The Shriek of the Looney (Book III)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!masscomp!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: 3CI-GWEN-ELF,Tesla and the Military part 2/2
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.064118.16384@bilver.uucp>
Date: 21 Feb 92 06:41:18 GMT
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 503
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4586 alt.conspiracy:12425
-------------------------GWEN part 2-----------------------------------
Topic:ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSE (EMP)
One aspect of nuclear war that is not well publicized is the EMP
phenomenon. This becomes VERY IMPORTANT because you WILL experience it.
An electromagnetic pulse is a very short, intense burst of
electromagnetic energy that is produced by the explosion of a nuclear
weapon in space. If an EMP were produced by a nuclear explosion 100 miles
above Kansas City, for instance, its energy would be so intense that it
would shut off ALL electric-power systems, destroy all computers and
magnetic disks or tape records, destroy the guidance systems of missiles
and the computer and communication systems of military and commercial
aircraft, and shut down all radio communications--ACROSS THE ENTIRE
UNITED STATES! The military organism would be decapitated. In the military
scenario, the United States would then be faced with capitulation or
nuclear destruction. Theoretically, ground-wave communications would still
be possible. However, the theory is tenuous. The GWEN hardware is
transistor based; even if placed in "hardened" bunkers, it would be
vulnerable to an EMP. In addition, the EMP would produce major ground
currents in the path of the GWEN signals that could decrease their
transmission capabilities. Finally, the locations of all GWEN stations are
known to the enemy and thus are vulnerable to attack. Not such a good
show, is it? Nonetheless, the military mind (whew--mutually exclusive
terms) has conceived of using the GWEN network to maintain communications
following such a decapitating EMP attack. This is not the place for a
full argument concerning the values and options of nuclear war, but in my
opinion the reason for the existence of this system is specious in itself
as for between-the-lines assumptions. Dear ones, nuclear war is not
"winnable". All may not perish--but the war is NOT WINNABLE. FOR THIS
VERY REASON, YOU HAVE BEEN LEFT DEFENSELESS WITHOUT SHELTERS WHILE
BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS HAVE BEEN POURED INTO UNDERGROUND
FACILITIES FOR SECURITY OF THE ELITE PUPPET-MASTERS. You WILL wake up or
you WILL perish. The potential harm to the civilian population from the
operation of GWEN has not been addressed. GWEN is a superb system, in
combination with cyclotron resonance, for producing behavioral
alterations in the civilian population. The average strength of the steady
geomagnetic field varies from place to place across the various
geological areas such as the United States. Therefore, if one wished to
resonate a specific ion in living things in a specific locality, one
would require a specific frequency for that location. The spacing of GWEN
transmitters 200 miles apart across the United States would allow such
specific frequencies to be "tailored" to the geomagnetic-field strength
in each GWEN area. This piece of information is well-known to the
"Planners" of the network and, of course, is in full capability of
operation NOW. What of these various in-point frequencies? Why doesn't
someone in your wondrous UFO community demand a bit of sharing with one
frequency "expert" who is only annoyed with plagiarism (which objection
will be more understandable now), etc. Why don't you check out the
"frequency tables" of your beloved brother, Cathie. Does he know all
this? Oh, Chelas, spare me! You have accomplished the sophistication of the
newest in "killing fields". Dharma, allow us a break so that this can be
edited while we work on the next writing. We need this to the public
without delay.We are making progress and ones who will hear and see
deserve the best that we can offer. Salu.
Date:1/4/92 #3 HATONN/TESLA
As we write on these subjects, especially regarding pulsing wireless
forms of energy--ever comes the inquiry: "Why can't we seem to wireless
transmit energy, etc., like Nikola Tesla projected?" You can--you are just
not allowed to do so. Energy and transmission of electricity is the energy
bondage method of a planet. Do you actually think the Elite money-mongers
would allow such a thing as free energy and/or allow healing methods
utilizing free energy and magnetic frequency? Grow up, chelas, the world
is big and mean and most nasty indeed. A bit later after this writing I
will see if there is time and energy left to simply ask Nikola to expound
on the subject of wireless transmission and his own experience. I believe
you who doubt our presence and resources might be interested if not
totally captivated by the access to these higher beings awaiting their
ability to work with you when the time becomes feasible. Let us continue
now, however, with the subject at hand and speak of the new killing
fields:
Topic:ELECTROMAGNETIC WEAPONS
While the military was vigorously denying the very existence of
bioeffects from electromagnetic-field exposure, such bioeffects were
actually being explored as potential weapons--weapons with the enormous
advantage of being totally silent and imperceptible. If you are a bit
terrified at this point I suggest you are normal and quite rightful in
your responses. This is a most deadly game and you are the sitting targets
this very day as you are being worn away and debilitated, totally
controlled and manipulated almost beyond the point of recovery. The EMP
concept has been extended through the development of devices that
generate EMP pulses without the need for nuclear explosions. Such devices
can be deployed for use against enemy command and control centers or
against aircraft in order to produce failure of electronic equipment.
This can also be directed against any civilian location and or group. A
derivative of this program is HPM (high-power pulsed microwave), a system
producing intense, extremely short pulses of microwave.Several types,
ranging in frequency from 1200 MHz to 35 GHz with powers up to 1000
megawatts, are tested and ready for use. These are also ready for use as
weapons against humans and, against these weapons, no gun can even be
relatively compared. There is a report which can (or maybe can't be)
acquired which deals with the testing program of the Microwave Research
Department at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research. It states,
"Microwave energy in the range of 1 to 5 GHz, a militarily important
range, penetrates all organ systems of the body and thus puts all organ
systems at risk." Effects on the central nervous system are considered
very important. The testing program, begun in 1986, is divided into four
parts: 1) prompt debilitation effects; 2) prompt stimulation through
auditory effects; 3) work interference/stoppage effects; and 4) effects
on stimulus-controlled behavior. The report goes on to state, "Microwave
pulses appear to couple to the central nervous system and produce
stimulation similar to electrical stimulation unrelated to heat." It
appears that HPM is capable of altering behavior in the same fashion as
Delgado's electrical stimulation (which we will not go into herein). The
production of cognitive and behavioral alterations by HPM is a
sledgehammer effect in comparison to the subtle alterations produced by
ELF fields. According to a 1982 Air Force review of biotechnology, ELF has
a number of potential military uses, including "dealing with terrorist
groups, crowd control, controlling breaches in security at military
installations, and antipersonnel techniques in tactical warfare." The same
report states, "Electromagnetic systems would be used to produce mild to
severe physiological disruption or perceptual distortion or
disorientation. They are silent, and countermeasures to them may be
difficult to develop." Just know, readers, that a whole group and class of
weapons, based on electromagnetic fields, has been pretty well perfected
and added to the muscles of the military organism. The 3CI doctrine is
still growing and expanding. The military can and is able to completely
control the minds of the civilian population. I make no attempt here to
review in any detail the relationship between military considerations and
the hazards of man-made electromagnetic fields. This complex and dangerous
situation lies outside the scope of this small writing and few would have
any understanding regarding the details, except for an indication of how
the political policies derived from it have effectively removed the
public recognition of the hazards. The military establishment and
government fully realize that the survival of the military organism is
well worth the sacrifice of the lives, health and life function of large
segments of the American population--the goal of conquest has been
accomplished. You-the-people have only ONE countering measure and THAT
LIES WITH GOD AND WE THE HOSTS. WHICH WILL IT BE, AMERICA? Dharma,
appended are some maps of the area in the "Tehachapi's" of the Northrop
installation (See inserts later.) wherein the massive underground
terminal from Edwards is located. You will note that there are numerous
silos for egress and ingress of air-ships with markings of some of the
saucer exit/entrance portals with all sorts of landing pods. I suggest you
take this very seriously for the structures at Edwards are even more
sophisticated, while covered by the rocket launch test area. By the way,
these installations are directly tied underground to the JPL labs in
Pasadena, California with facilities for immediate evacuation when the
earthquake comes or the nuclear war. Only a few are, however, on the list
for evacuation. It is totally amazing that so many of you have worked for
years on portions of this killer machine and never realized you were
involved. Yes, it would boggle the mind. The tunnel itself is made totally
flexible at the fault zone with inconceivable strengthening to prevent
rupture. In that particular evacuation tunnel connected to a massive
underground installation which has radiating "arms" right to the ocean
and underground sub bases, craft can travel at several times the speed of
sound. Remarkable? No, someone just worked diligently toward their goal
while you slept and forgot yours. Overlook the poor quality of the
pictures (maps) as you are most certainly NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE THEM. I
will not show you pictures of Edwards or other installations for it is
far too risky at this time. Northrup is out in the fringes of desert and
isolation and almost "unknown"--I will not endanger any by showing more
recognized facilities. There are many of these so-isolated facilities of
unknown locations scattered about your landscape--this is only one and is
not even particularly large, relatively. It serves a unique purpose or I
would not speak of it. I just don't want any readers being shocked when
the government and military start producing "little gray aliens", etc.
Your very lives and freedom depend on your KNOWING THE TRUTH. I can only
remind my own crew that these nerds have to get through ME to get to
you--so be it, try it and make my day! Perhaps it is time for me to brush
up on my target practice. Hit my people and it is classified by all
Universal law as "aggression", and I have right of defense and
protection. It could get pretty hot for my beam system is pretty good
while leaving no evidence to tell the tale--just pure and simple
evaporation! I do not mean "rendering invisible" I mean "rendering
evaporated"! I am here to inform my people and instruct them so we can
bring them home--we have no intention of interference on your place and
we will tolerate no interference in our mission. Mankind as a whole has
pretty much decided to go with the evil influences and it is each one's
right to do that, but the planet will be cleansed by her own doing and
our people will not be left to the terrific holocaust. We will summon ours
from the corners of your planet. If the world decides as a whole to change
its path--wondrous goodness shall take place. If not, we will gather our
own and leave you to your resources. I will step aside and welcome our old
friend and comrade, Nikola. Many hours have been spent with this scribe
and this rather eccentric brother and I am honored to sit quietly while
there is a bit of sharing of memories--not often given since presentation
in March of 1904. He is given to honoring the request to share and I bow
to this brilliant personage. I salute you and you will make your own
connection for I no longer leave my circuit--thank you. I shall, however,
bid you good-day.
Topic:TESLA REMEMBERS
It is lonely I am for a good snow-covered day for communion as we have
had in the past with sharing and visitation. It is indeed sad that ones
deny the contact and choose their own mystical journeys instead of
honoring their contract for service--choosing to "run away" before the
cake is finished to the serving. Impatience and greed are the curse of
man. It is impossible to resist your courteous request extended on an
occasion of such moment in the life of your JOURNAL. Your request has
vivified the memory of our beginning friendship, of the first imperfect
attempts and underserved successes, of kindnesses and misunderstandings.
Always it brings painfully to mind the greatness of early expectations,
the quick flight of time, and alas! the smallness of realizations. The
following was given to the world but so few paid heed and then, as is the
case in the human experiment--the mystery found its way into the hands of
evil doers. Let me look back toward the close of your year 1898 in which a
systematic research, carried on for a number of years with the object of
perfecting a method of transmission of electrical energy through the
natural medium, led me to recognize three important necessities: first,
to develop a transmitter of great power; second, to perfect means for
individualizing and isolating the energy transmitted; and, third, to
ascertain the laws of propagation of currents through the earth and the
atmosphere. Various reasons, not the least of which was the help proffered
by my friend Leonard E. Curtis and the Colorado Springs Electric Company,
determined me to select for my experimental investigations the large
plateau, two thousand meters above sea-level, in the vicinity of that
delightful resort, which I reached late in May, 1899. I take note that
the general area is still a bustling center of activity, mostly
underground now, for completion of that which I was not destined to
finish in my sojourn--now turned to the most heinous of uses in
destruction and control of the masses of civilians into imprisonment of a
world. I had not been there but a few days when I congratulated myself on
the happy choice and I began the task, for which I had long trained
myself, with a grateful sense and full of inspired hope. The perfect
purity of the air, the unequaled beauty of the sky, the imposing sight of
a high mountain range, the quiet and restfulness of the place--all around
contributed to make the conditions for scientific observation ideal. To
this was added the exhilarating influence of a glorious climate and a
singular sharpening of the senses. In those regions the organs undergo
perceptible physical changes. The eyes assume an extraordinary limpidity,
improving vision; the ears dry out and become more susceptible to
sound. Objects can be clearly distinguished there at distances such that I
prefer to have them told by someone else, and I have heard--this I can
venture to vouch for--the claps of thunder seven and eight hundred
kilometers away. I might have done better still had it not been tedious to
wait for the sounds to arrive, in definite intervals, as heralded
precisely by an electrical indicating apparatus--nearly an hour before. In
the middle of June, while preparations for other work were going on, I
arranged one of my receiving transformers with the view of determining,
in a novel manner, experimentally, the electric potential of the globe
and studying its periodic and casual fluctuations. This formed part of a
plan carefully mapped out in advance. A highly sensitive, self-restorative
device, controlling a recording instrument, was included in the secondary
circuit, while the primary was connected to the ground and an elevated
terminal of adjustable capacity. The variations of potential gave rise to
electric surgings in the primary; these generated secondary currents,
which in turn affected the sensitive device and recorder in proportion to
their intensity. The earth was found to be, literally, alive with
electrical vibrations, and soon I was deeply absorbed in this interesting
investigation. No better opportunities for such observations as I intended
to make could be found anywhere. Colorado is a country famous for the
natural displays of electric force. In that dry and rarefied atmosphere
the sun's rays beat the objects with fierce intensity. I raised steam, to
a dangerous pressure, in barrels filled with concentrated salt solution,
and the tin-foil coatings of some of my elevated terminals shriveled up
in the fiery blaze. An experimental high-tension transformer, carelessly
exposed to the rays of the setting sun, had most of its insulating
compound melted out and was rendered useless. Aided by the dryness and
rarefaction of the air, the water evaporates as in a boiler, and static
electricity is developed in abundance. Lightning discharges are,
accordingly, very frequent and sometimes of inconceivable violence. On one
occasion approximately twelve thousand discharges occurred in two hours,
and all in a radius of certainly less than fifty kilometers from the
laboratory. Many of them resembled gigantic trees of fire with the trunks
up or down. I never saw fire balls, but as a compensation for my
disappointment I succeeded later in determining the mode of their
formation and producing them artificially. Never be dismayed or
disappointed at that which is given and which at the moment seems without
merit--for it can only open the way into deeper and more profound
information as you allow your mind to consider the circumstance.In the
latter part of the same month I noticed several times that my instruments
were affected stronger by discharges taking place at great distances than
by those near by. This puzzled me very much. What was the cause? A number of
observations proved that it could not be due to the differences in the
intensity of the individual discharges, and I readily ascertained that
the phenomenon was not the result of a varying relation between the
periods of my receiving circuits and those of the terrestrial
disturbances. One night, as I was walking home with an assistant,
meditating over these experiences, I was suddenly staggered by a
thought. Years ago, when I wrote a chapter of my lecture before the
Franklin Institute and the National Electric Light Association, it had
presented itself to me, but I had dismissed it as absurd and impossible.
I banished it again. Nevertheless, my instinct was aroused and somehow I
felt that I was nearing a great revelation. It was on the third day of
July--the date I shall never forget--when I obtained the first decisive
experimental evidence of a truth of overwhelming importance for the
advancement of humanity. A dense mass of strongly charged clouds gathered
in the west and towards the evening a violent storm broke loose which,
after spending much of its fury in the mountains, was driven away with
great velocity over the plains. Heavy and long persisting arcs formed
almost in regular time intervals. My observations were now greatly
facilitated and rendered more accurate by the experiences already
gained. I was able to handle my instruments quickly and I was prepared.
You see, it is always good to be prepared and therefore be able to move
on without interrupting distractions. If you are, for instance, trying to
survive you certainly have no time for invention other than to the
problem immediately at hand. I suggest you pay close attention to your
friend, Gyeorgos, come forth to give you a hand in your tedious journey.
We are not yet of that higher level of total understanding and cannot
serve in the same guidance capacity. I, myself, am most limited to my
realm of expertise and as of yet have no need of more general "life"
knowledge in the "knowingness". I am most happy to be of assistance to
you but I feel no obligation nor pressure to serve in that capacity
longer. I found my journey on your place to be most disagreeable for the
most part--an evil civilization filled with vile vipers. At any rate, back
to my story--the recording apparatus being properly adjusted, its
indications became fainter and fainter with the increasing distance of
the storm, until they ceased altogether. I was watching in eager
expectation. Surely enough, in a little while the indications again began,
grew stronger and stronger and, after passing through a maximum,
gradually decreased and ceased once more. Many times, in regularly
recurring intervals, the same actions were repeated until the storm
which, as evident from simple computations, was moving with nearly
constant speed, had retreated to a distance of about three hundred
kilometers. Nor did these strange actions stop then, but continued to
manifest themselves with undiminished force. Subsequently, similar
observations were also made by my assistant, Mr. Fritz Lowenstein, and
shortly afterward several admirable opportunities presented themselves
which brought out, still more forcibly, and unmistakably, the true nature
of the wonderful phenomenon. No doubt whatever remained: I was observing
stationary waves. As the source of disturbances moved away the receiving
circuit came successively upon their nodes and loops. Impossible as it
seemed, your planet, despite its vast extent, behaved like a conductor of
limited dimensions. The tremendous significance of this fact in the
transmission of energy by my system had already become quite clear to
me. Not only was it practicable to send telegraphic messages to any
distance without wires, as I recognized long before, but also to impress
upon the entire globe the faint modulations of the human voice, far more
still, to transmit power, in unlimited amounts, to any terrestrial
distance and almost without any loss whatsoever. With these stupendous
possibilities in sight, with the experimental evidence before me that
their realization was henceforth merely a question of expert knowledge,
patience and skill, I attacked vigorously the development of my
magnifying transmitter, now, however, not so much with the original
intention of producing one of great power, as with the object of learning
how to construct the best one. This is, essentially, a circuit of very
high self-induction and small resistance which, in its arrangement, mode
of excitation and action, may be said to be the diametrical opposite of a
transmitting circuit typical of telegraphy by Hertzian or electromagnetic
radiations. It is difficult to form an adequate idea of the marvelous
power of this unique appliance, by the aid of which the globe will be
transformed. The electromagnetic radiations being reduced to an
insignificant quantity, and proper conditions of resonance maintained,
the circuit acts like an immense pendulum, storing indefinitely the
energy of the primary exciting impulses and impressions upon the earth
and its conducting atmosphere uniform harmonic oscillations of
intensities which, as actual tests have shown, may be pushed so far as to
surpass those attained in the natural displays of static electricity.
Simultaneously with these endeavors, the means of individualization and
isolation were gradually improved. Great importance was attached to this,
for it was found that simple tuning was not sufficient to meet the
vigorous practical requirements. The fundamental idea of employing a
number of distinctive elements, co-operatively associated, for the
purpose of isolating energy transmitted, I trace directly to my perusal
of Spencer's clear and suggestive exposition of the human nerve
mechanism. The influence of this principle on the transmission of
intelligence, and electrical energy in general, cannot as yet be
estimated, for the art is still in the embryonic stage; but many
thousands of simultaneous telegraphic and telephonic messages, through
one single conducting channel, natural or artificial, and without serious
mutual interference, are certainly practicable, while millions are
possible. On the other hand, any desired degree of individualization may
be secured by the use of a great number of co-operative elements and
arbitrary variation of their distinctive features and order of
succession. For obvious reasons, the principle will also be valuable in
the extension of the distance of transmission. Progress, though of
necessity slow, was steady and sure, for the objects aimed at were in a
direction of my constant study and exercise. It is, therefore, not
astonishing that before the end of 1899 I completed the task undertaken
and reached the results which I announced in June, 1900, every word of
which was most carefully weighed. Much was already accomplished towards
making my system commercially available, in the transmission of energy in
small amounts for specific purposes, as well as on an industrial scale.
You will note that even that far back in counting--facts were held from
you for remember that I speak of 1900 at the turn of the century.With
that thought in mind can you really be confounded and surprised to find
these heinous systems for destruction so sophisticated and perfected?
The results attained by me had made my scheme of intelligence
transmission, for which the name of "World Telegraphy", easily
realizable. It constituted, in its principle of operation, means employed
and capacities of application, a radical and fruitful departure from what
had been theretofore done. I had no doubt that it would prove very
efficient in enlightening the masses, particularly in still uncivilized
countries and less accessible regions, and that it would add materially
to general safety, comfort and convenience, and maintenance of peaceful
relations. You see, in all generations there are we dreamers who believe
that man is generally "good" and "sharing" as of God projection--not
so--for too late we learn that the adversary called evil and Satanic is
always at work in the vineyards ready to steal the tanks of good wine and
poison the masses with the sour brew. My outlay involved the employment of
a number of plants, all of which are capable of transmitting
individualized signals to the uttermost confines of the earth. Each of
them would be preferably located near some important center of
civilization and the news it received through any channel would be
flashed to all points of the globe. A very cheap and simple device, which
could be carried in one's pocket, would then be set up somewhere on sea
or land, and would record the world's news or such special messages as
might be intended for it. Thus the entire earth would be converted into a
huge brain, as it were, capable of response in every one of its
parts. Little could I then realize that the adversary would utilize such
wonders for the deceiving of an entire civilization. Since a single plant
of but one hundred horse-power could operate hundreds of millions of
instruments, the system would have a virtually infinite working capacity,
and it could immensely facilitate and cheapen the transmission of
intelligence. Man is so ungracious and cruel to his fellowman as to
astound the senses. The first of these central plants would have been
completed at that time had it not been for unforeseen delays which,
fortunately, had nothing to do with its purely technical features. But
this loss of time, while vexatious, was, after all, proven to be a
blessing in disguise. The best design of which I knew at the time had been
adopted, and the transmitter would emit a wave complex of a total maximum
activity of ten million horse-power, one percent of which is amply
sufficient to "girdle the globe". This enormous rate of energy delivery,
approximately twice that of the combined falls of Niagara, is obtainable
only by the use of certain artifices, which I was to make known in due
course. For a large part of the work which I did I was indebted to the
noble generosity of Mr. J. Pierpont Morgan and the world owes to this one
man much of the despoiling and imprisonment of a planet. I was as deceived
as any of you present personages by that contractioning viper. I found him
most welcome and stimulating, as it was extended at a time when those,
who had since promised most, were the greatest of doubters. Little do we
see the deceit in the hand which offers assistance and means destruction
and theft. I honored my friend, Stanford White, for much unselfish and
valuable assistance. The work advanced, and though the results seemed to
me to be tardy, they were sure to come. Meanwhile, the transmission of
energy on an industrial scale was not neglected. The Canadian Niagara
Power Company offered me a splendid inducement, and I felt that, next to
achieving success for the sake of the art and gift unto my fellowman, it
would give me the greatest satisfaction to make their concession
financially profitable to them. In this first power plant, which I worked
long at the designing, I proposed to distribute ten thousand horse-power
under a tension of one hundred million volts, which I was now able to
produce and handle with extreme safety. This energy would be collected all
over the globe, preferably in small amounts, ranging from a fraction of
one to a few horse-power. One of its chief uses would be the illumination
of isolated homes. It would take very little power to light a dwelling
with vacuum tubes operated by high-frequency currents and in each
instance a terminal a little above the roof would be more than
sufficient. Another valuable application would be the driving of clocks
and other such apparatus. These clocks would be exceedingly simple, would
require absolutely no attention and would indicate rigorously correct
time. The idea of impressing upon the earth American time is fascinating
and very likely to become popular was my thought on the matter. I was
going to be able to offer a great convenience to the whole world with a
plant of no more than ten thousand horse-power. How could I know that the
carbon fuels would hold the entire world hostage to the thieves of the
environment and the civilization? The introduction of that system would
give opportunities for invention and manufacture such as have never
presented themselves before and were never again presented to the
people. Knowing the far-reaching importance of this first attempt and its
effect upon what would be future development, I proceeded slowly and most
carefully. Experience taught me not to assign a term to enterprises the
consummation of which is not wholly dependent on my own abilities and
exertions. I was hopeful that these great realizations would not be far
off, and I knew that when this first work would be completed they would
follow with mathematical certitude. When the great truth seemingly
accidentally revealed and experimentally confirmed would be fully
recognized, the planet, with all its appalling immensity, was to electric
currents virtually no more than a small metal ball and that by this fact
many possibilities, each baffling imagination and of incalculable
consequence, were rendered absolutely sure of accomplishment; when that
first plant would be inaugurated and it would be shown that a telegraphic
message, almost as secret and non-interferable as a thought, could be
transmitted to any terrestrial distance, the sound of the human voice,
with all its intonations and inflections, faithfully and virtually
instantly reproduced at any other point of the globe--and that to be
followed by instant reproductions and reflections of images and so forth,
the energy of a waterfall made available for supplying light, heat or
motive power, anywhere--on sea, or land, or high in the air--humanity
could and would be stirred up like an active ant-hill. Oh, the excitement
coming was too incredible for me to contain. Ah alas, could it really have
been meant that this wondrous gift of gifts would fall into the hands of
the Elite evil manipulators and withholders of goodness. My dear old
friend, I have rambled on in my memory trek and I see that you must now
finger each symbol on a board when there is facility in your time for
picking up the thought patterns. I wonder if your people of your time will
awaken to their heritage in time to utilize any of these wondrous gifts
kept to the Elite deceivers? Ah, it has ever been thus on the planets of
dense immorality of experience. The lessons are great but the surge of
evil is always so great and the stand with and for God so shallow. I can
only wish you well and share that which I have to gift. I look forward to
again welcoming you home and I shall keep the teapot at boil so that we
can sip and share. How wondrous it would be to succeed in this present
mission that man might experience true greatness in his own time of
manifestation instead of always succumbing to the demonic thieves of
expression. I bid you peace and appreciation for allowing my sharing as
our paths are destined to intertwine and for that gift I am most
pleased. I bid you good-day and may insight shine upon you as you walk the
path. This is Nikola to close with my best blessings upon you who effort
to change the journey into a lighted blessing for all--may it come to
pass!
** End of Topic **
Don
--
-* Don Allen *- // Only | Are you ready for SETI?
Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona | The *real* "October Surprise"
Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
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From: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu>
Date: 21 Feb 92 15:46:53 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com>
<GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>
Reply-To: gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU
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In-Reply-To: Frank T Lofaro's message of Thu, 20 Feb 1992 13:03:39 -0500
In article <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> Frank T Lofaro <fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
From alt.paranormal (USENET): 20-Feb-92 Re: Dreamland Gerry
Roston@cs.cmu.edu (919)
>Jon
>If I were to say that people with acne were actuallt Martians in
>disguise, would you say:
>a) He's full of shit.
>b) I can not form an opinion, but the burden of proof is on him.
>Although what you said about skepticism being a two edged sword is
>correct, there are certain ideas that can be quickly flushed without
>resorting to experimentation, etc.
>Like pyschotics being ingabited by demon.
>Or people with acne being Martians.
That is a somewhat hollow argument. You are comparing the statement
being tested to something that is obviously ridiculous and then using
that as the basis for attacking the original statement. While it would
be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by
demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many
of them are. If someone gets possessed by a demon (which I *do* believe
happens, though not very often), they will appear to unenlightened
science to be mentally ill. Modern science does not comprehend, nor is
it intended to explain, phenomina that deal with non-physical entities,
such as demons. Scientists do not understand the soul, spirits, and
demons and how they affect what appears to them to be the "real" world.
There is *much* more to the world, than just the physical plane.
Frank,
You've got your head shoved so far up your as, you can't see daylight.
If you honestly believe that my argument is any more hollow than the
one about demons, I have a bridge to sell you. This talk of gods and
demons are hold-overs from our progenitors who could not explain the
world they see. These stories are suitable for campfires and dolts
who can not form logical explinations for the world around them. The
only reason that people give these tales more creedacne than my straw-
man is that these tales have been around far longer, they have the
support of very strong political groups and people are afraid to
attack them.
--
Gerry Roston (gerry@cs.cmu.edu) | Society is produced by our wants, and
Field Robotics Center, | government by our wickedness;...
Carnegie Mellon University | Thomas Paine
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213 |
(412) 268-3856 |
|
The opinions expressed are mine |
and do not reflect the official |
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone, |
or any other organization. |
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Date: 21 Feb 92 16:42:14 GMT
References: <1992Feb16.203759.22078@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.221238.2596@spdcc.com> <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com>
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Organization: University of Waterloo
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In article <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>
>>> Not that surveying the older stars are any picnic either...
>
>> I imagine that Lovelock would suggest looking for worlds whose
>>atmosphere is in what should be chemical disequilibrium. Lots of O2,
>>for example, suggests there must be something producing it continually.
>
> Huh? Um... *how*?
>
> We can't even detect them (extra-solar planets) as it is yet,
>let alone differentiate between their atmospheric constituencies...
Oops. I was assuming a century or two of research, to get the
ability to detect extra-solar planets remotely. That is barely within
the realm of possibility, isn't it?
What is Earth's radio noise output like these days? Assuming no
attempt on our part to be noticed by hypothetical ETIs, would it be
obvious to the ETIs why the sun (or a close companion to it) appeared
to be a major radio source?
James Nicoll
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!aero.org!robert
From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.173954.29791@aero.org>
Date: 21 Feb 92 17:39:54 GMT
References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Sender: news@aero.org
Organization: Ssaymssik Inc.
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In article <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:
>
> [psychotic delusions ommitted]
>
Oh shit, we've got another one. Somebody get the thorazine.....
Bob S.
"Everything you know is WRONG......"
- Firesign Theatre
Path: ns-mx!uunet!infonode!doink!jim
From: jim@doink.b23b.ingr.com (James B. Reed)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.174622.14330@infonode.ingr.com>
Date: 21 Feb 92 17:46:22 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu>
Sender: jim@doink (James B. Reed)
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Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
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In article <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu>, gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:
|> This talk of gods and
|> demons are hold-overs from our progenitors who could not explain the
|> world they see. These stories are suitable for campfires and dolts
|> who can not form logical explinations for the world around them.
So your basic assumption is that any explanation that involves God or a
demon is not logical. That demonstrates your beliefs and biases but it
has nothing to do with logic.
Using logic on your statement (and assuming you statement is true), we must
conclude that Isaac Newton was a campfire. He believed in God, but he
certainly was not a dolt who could not form logical explanations for the
world around him.
I removed sci.space from the Newsgroups line because this discussion doesn't
belong there. You can respond to me via email if you wish.
--
James B. Reed | If at first you don't succeed,
DAZIX, An Intergraph Company | Find out why,
jimreed@b23b.ingr.com | **THEN** try again.
(205) 730-8874 |
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb
From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)
Newsgroups: rec.travel,misc.misc,news.misc,tor.general,alt.alien.visitors,tor.news,soc.college.gradinfo,ut.dcs.gradnews
Subject: Re: Apartment for summer sublet
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.164802.2847@tcom.stc.co.uk>
Date: 21 Feb 92 16:48:02 GMT
References: <92Feb20.111306est.8702@orasis.vis.toronto.edu>
Sender: news@tcom.stc.co.uk (System Administration)
Reply-To: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)
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In article <92Feb20.111306est.8702@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> eyal@vis.toronto.edu writes:
>********** APARTMENT FOR SUMMER SUBLET **********
What's this doing in "alt.alien.visitors" ? Perhaps you want to give the aliens
a little summer vacation from what is probably a very Spartan system of
underground tunnels ?
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
Pat
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cumesb!anselmo
From: anselmo@cumesb (Andrew P. Anselmo)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Yet another test; please ignore
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.193939.28061@ctr.columbia.edu>
Date: 21 Feb 92 19:39:39 GMT
References: <9202211920.AA28111@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose)
Organization: Columbia University Department of Mechanical Engineering
Lines: 10
This is a test of the emergency broadcast system.
In the event of an emergency...
This is only a test.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Anselmo / Department of Mechanical Engineering / Columbia University
236A SW Mudd Building 212-854-2965 / anselmo@cumesb.mech.columbia.edu
Independently Owned and Operated.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!sword.eng.hou.compaq.com!mccreary
From: mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>
Date: 21 Feb 92 19:16:32 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu>
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In article <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>In article <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
>>I've always been impressed by ILM, but this tops it! They have data from a
>>probe that never existed! (there were only two Vikings). I've been thinking
>>about doing something like this for Venus. If anyone has any information
>>about programming codes, let me know.
>
>NASA's already done something like this for Venus. Well, it wasn't
>interactive, but they've got a nice video clip of parts of Venus from the point
>of view of someone flying over the surface. Sorry, I don't know how you would
>et a copy of it.
They've done quite a few. I believe the original research into this
technique was done at JPL. I've seen _LA, the Movie_, _Mars, the Movie_
and _Europa, the Movie_. (I think Europa, it was one of the Jovian
moons.) It's quite breath taking to watch. Try contacting the public
affairs offices of NASA or JPL. They may provide video tapes for educational
use. You can get an amazing amount of material either free or real
cheap if you dig enough.
--
McCreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com Computers are like Old Testament gods;
EMcCreary@uh.edu lots of rules and no mercy.
#include <stddisclaimer.h> Joseph Campbell
"Ooooohhhh we got movie sign!!" MST3K
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!roholdr
From: roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.194854.22858@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Date: 21 Feb 92 19:48:54 GMT
References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca> <1992Feb21.014725.17430@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 65
In <1992Feb21.014725.17430@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes:
>someone who should know better(?) writes:
[stuff deleted...]
>>But the equipment failed - just like the probe that located the Mars Face.
>I wasn't aware that the vikings failed.
He's sort of "got me" here... I'd _heard_ that the Mars Face was located
by a probe that was sent to Mars by the United States to study the Martian
moons. Unfortunately, I heard this over a local radio broadcast some time
ago and I haven't heard anything more since then. Was the Mars Face first
located by the Viking Probes? If not, why didn't we hear about all the
Mars Face just after the Vikings landed???
>this same person went on to say 'and probably this one will fail too';
>isn't that jumping the gun a bit? I mean, wait for it to fail mysteriously,
>then start into the conspiracy theories.
I suppose if I had based my belief in the "conspiracy theory" solely on the
malfunctions of a couple of probes, I'd be guilty of "jumping the gun".
Luckily, there's evidence here on earth that a government conspiracy exists -
documents that are leaked occasionally, incidents similar to Hangar 19,
incidents similar to a recent encounter the Belgian Airforce allegedly had
with several UFOs (albeit reported on a television show that resembles the
National Enquirer), not to mention numerous individual "close encounters"
ordinary people have had over the last 40 years. Granted, leaked documents
could all be forgeries, the discussions on Hangar 19 have largely consisted
of conjecture (since, if true, it's a military secret anyway), shows like
Hard Copy, A Current Affair could be misrepresenting the facts - misleading
people into thinking there is a conspiracy in order to develop stories to
"sell" to the public, and the individual "encounters" of ordinary people
could all be explained away as weather baloons, hoaxes, optical illusions
and/or mistakes. The Crop Circles could all be natural phenomenon.
And I could be Emperor of Rome.
My point is believers in "The Conspiracy Theory" are probably not arriving
at their conclusions in the half-cocked fashion that has been suggested by
some. My own personal beliefs are derived from all of the above being a
little too coincidental for me to accept and an inherent distrust in govern-
ment. At the very least suggesting a conspiracy theory isn't wrong. The
suggestion that I should know better than to do this is the suggestion that
I put a blind trust in all of the alternative explainations being valid
without question. But I do question...and will continue to question until
it is conclusively shown that all of the alternative explanations for these
phenomena are the causes of them.
Whatever my own view, everyone should be reluctant to dismiss the "Conspiracy
Theory". If there is a conspiracy theory, isn't it in everyone's interest
to find out about it? Do we want our governments to decieve us? Do we want
our judgement so impeded by a lack of information - do we want to live in
a society where the government manipulates the opinons of its citizens through
providing government-selected information? Isn't it important, with all this
at stake, that we consider "The Conspiracy Theory?"
---------------------------------------------------------------
|R. Ross Holder, Jr. | Home Address: |
|(roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca) | 410-424 River Avenue |
|Department of Philosophy | Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada |
|The University of Manitoba | R3L 0C6 PH#: (204) 478-1744|
---------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!convex!schumach
From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <schumach.698706566@convex.convex.com>
Date: 21 Feb 92 21:09:26 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu> <1992Feb21.174622.14330@infonode.ingr.com>
Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account)
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
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Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4457 alt.alien.visitors:4595 sci.skeptic:20905
Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
not necessarily those of CONVEX.
In <1992Feb21.174622.14330@infonode.ingr.com> jim@doink.b23b.ingr.com (James B. Reed) writes:
>Using logic on your statement (and assuming you statement is true), we must
>conclude that Isaac Newton was a campfire. He believed in God, but he
>certainly was not a dolt who could not form logical explanations for the
>world around him.
Yes, Newton was a genius, but he was not infallible. Some of his
views were completely wrong (such as those that led him to write
tens of thousands of words on alchemy as a science), or even lunatic
(his deathbed statement that his proudest achievement was to die a
virgin).
So stop with these ridiculous appeals to authority, already.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!spdcc!rdonahue
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com>
Date: 21 Feb 92 22:07:29 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com> <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
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jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>>>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>>> Not that surveying the older stars are any picnic either...
>>> I imagine that Lovelock would suggest looking for worlds whose
>>>atmosphere is in what should be chemical disequilibrium. Lots of O2,
>>>for example, suggests there must be something producing it continually.
>> Huh? Um... *how*?
>> We can't even detect them (extra-solar planets) as it is yet,
>>let alone differentiate between their atmospheric constituencies...
> What is Earth's radio noise output like these days? Assuming no
>attempt on our part to be noticed by hypothetical ETIs, would it be
>obvious to the ETIs why the sun (or a close companion to it) appeared
>to be a major radio source?
UM --- that's one of the better suggestions. You could get
several things from this: the distance from the Earth to the Sun,
as well as the rotation and revolution periods of the Earth as well...
I don't know how many Janskys the Earth puts out, offhand.
The big problem here is of course where to look... Even FM
is a pretty large bandwidth to sample, and there isn't and logical reason
for ETs to start looking there (that I know of).
Bob
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.214636.29538@rosevax.rosemount.com>
Date: 21 Feb 92 21:46:36 GMT
References: <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>
Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
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Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius
fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Frank T Lofaro) writes:
: From alt.paranormal (USENET): 20-Feb-92 Re: Dreamland Gerry
: Roston@cs.cmu.edu (919)
:
: >Jon
: >If I were to say that people with acne were actuallt Martians in
: >disguise, would you say:
: >a) He's full of shit.
: >b) I can not form an opinion, but the burden of proof is on him.
: >
: >Although what you said about skepticism being a two edged sword is
: >correct, there are certain ideas that can be quickly flushed without
: >resorting to experimentation, etc.
: >
: >Like pyschotics being ingabited by demon.
: >
: >Or people with acne being Martians.
:
: That is a somewhat hollow argument. You are comparing the statement
: being tested to something that is obviously ridiculous and then using
: that as the basis for attacking the original statement. While it would
: be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by
: demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many
: of them are.
It is _your_ opinion that martians are more ridiculous that demons.
At least Mars is a real place that has been observed and visited.
Although current evidence doesn't give any indication of life on Mars
(and I don't want to hear about stupid faces and pyramids) the
existence of life on a terrestrial planet has precedent. Hell, or
wherever demons come from, hasn't been observed or visited. In my
opinion it is much more likely that somebody is a Martian than sombody
is possessed by demons.
There is as much evidence to support the _claim_ that I am a Martian as
there is that I am possessed by demons. NONE!
There _is_ evidence that schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders
are organically caused. Why invent demons?
--
Grant Edwards |Yow! The land of the rising
Rosemount Inc. |SONY!!
|
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com |
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!gibdo!tvp
From: tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.234717.5094@gibdo.engr.washington.edu>
Date: 22 Feb 92 00:05:33 GMT
References: <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> <1992Feb17.111438.21406@gibdo.engr.washington.edu> <1992Feb21.125941.23172@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: clearer than blir
Lines: 43
In article <1992Feb21.125941.23172@rhrk.uni-kl.de> kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes:
>In article <1992Feb17.111438.21406@gibdo.engr.washington.edu>, tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu writes:
>
>>The man, staring at shapes he *believed* to be made by intelligent
>>beings,
>You want to say there is any serious doubt of that?
>
>>searched so hard for meaning that he found it in the form of
>>five as yet undiscovered theorems. [..] No, after showing that
>>the theorems are probably new, we would
>>need evidence that the very layout of the crop circles was *designed*
>>to lead to the discovery of these theorems and again determine if this
>>seems reasonable.
>
>As you can find Elk's Theory by looking at an image of a
>brontosaurus, you can find geometric relations by looking at
>an image of geometric figures. But I don't assume that anyone
>would draw a brontosaurus with the intention of making somebody
>else find this "new theory".
I think the most definitive statement of what I was trying to say is:
To be rigorous, I would like the discoverer of the theorems describe a
general method of decoding crop circles which anyone could apply to
future formations. If it were then possible for observers to
independently arrive at identical new theorems based on a given
formation, this would be strong evidence that the crop circles had
been intelligently designed and represented a symbolic language of
sorts. Especially if the formation were found to contain "instructions"
that led the observer to the theorem.
If he claims there really was no formal method of decoding, I would
say the question is up in the air because of the *possibility* that
concentration on the geometric shapes had led to a Eureka discovery of
new theorems. Without any further evidence to guide us, each
individual must decide for him/herself which explanation seems more
reasonable: Eureka discovery or intelligent formations. I think either
is possible, the latter certainly more exciting, but which is
reasonable without any other evidence? Whichever a given person
chooses, he/she should not be derided for his/her choice. And until
the matter is settled the phenomenon should continue to be studied,
as it is of interest to many people.
-- Tad Perry
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com>
Date: 21 Feb 92 16:52:56 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 288
>In article <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...
>>In article <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>>In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...
>>>>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>>>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...
>>>Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.
>>
>>Curiously, when many people _say_ UFO, they mean _alien spacecraft_.
>>So what they are talking about is not an unknown deserving of study,
>>but those darn aliens.
>Ah, but who cares? If you read my previous posts, you won't find _me_
>attributing UFO's to "alien spacecraft". I've been arguing about the
>phenomenon. Once again, someone else (you, this time) is forcing the
>"alien" issue.
>Why?
I'm not forcing this or any other issue. This -->is<-- alt.alien.visitors,
and if you have followed the other threads, you will know about the planet
ummo, the greys, several conspiracies, etc... And they do belong here.
How is it that you can act as they are not part of the phenomena? Any
study which ignores part of the data cannot be considered unbiased.
>>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth
>>>>>about this phenomenon need apply.
>>
>>Need there be a single TRVTH? Or even just one phenomenon? I thought
>>we were dealing with an unknown? Hopefully I have guessed correctly
>>who originally said this.
>Absolutely. Show me where I have insisted that there is _one_ truth to
>be found here.
I see above ">>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth".
And I checked, these were your words. Are you saying the "the truth"
is non-singular?
>>>My statement about "truth" stands.
>>
>>I tend to think that there is no truth, just different points of
>>view.
>No offense, but doesn't this statement strike you as rather "unscientific"?
Scientific investigation is good for exploring objective reality. But
"truth" is not an objective reality. I would say that any study
go find some objective "truth" would absolutely not be a scientific
investigation.
>>>>
>>>>Simple question: You want repeatability. Show me how you can, in a
>>>laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in
>>>a nuclear fission reaction. Show me a real, honest to goodness
>>>black hole.
>>
>>This seems to be a straw-man argument. The truth or falsity of the
>>above has no bearing upon the value of studying the "UFO phenomenon".
>>Nevertheless, fission, while not predictable, is quite repeatable,
>>and the rate can be measured. Now if only UFO observations were as
>>repeatable, this thread would never have existed. And there is
>>a pretty good theoretical basis behind black holes. What theory
>>perdicts UFO`s?
>>What theory predicts that atom 1E37 will divide? Look, the point I'm
>>trying to make is that we keep hearing that the UFO phenomenon is not
>>repeatable in a laboratory. Of course it isn't. But neither are other
>>things which we _accept_ in science as valid. I have yet to see the
>>difference.
>Most importantly, much of science does NOT begin in the laboratory in
>a repeatable setting. It begins with _something_ that raises questions.
>If that "something" has raised a question, then the next step is to
>decide whether we can _try_ to answer it. That is where the current
>state of the study of the UFO phenomenon rests. It has never gone
>beyond this.
>For one to cry that there is no "repeatable" evidence of the phenomenon
>is to deny the birth of other scientific advances. Many of those did
>not start in a laboratory. They started with _observation_, something
>that should be a holy word to science.
The key here is that repeatable phenomena _can_ be investigated. If
we had only reports of uranium atome splitting, and from at best
questionable sources, would we be talking about fission today?
>Fission, as a phenomenon, is deliberately repeatable. I agree.
>However, there was a time when it was _not_. It was only a "theory".
As I recall, atoms at the time were considered unsplitable. Theory
denied that atome could split. Only after it was undisputably
observed was the phenomenon given proper study, and the nuclear
sciences were born.
>How did we achieve repeatability? By studying the processes that we
>thought should lead to it. Call it a bit of forensic science if you
>will. In any case, we _believed_ (for the most part) that we should
>be able to actually split something we could not see and still haven't.
Did we achieve repeatability? Is this not intrinsic to either
the phenomenon or to our methods of observation?
>At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth, I'll go one step further and
>say that fission is NOT repeatable and NOT predictable for any particular
>single atom. There is a probability that atom #1E37 _may_ divide.
This is solidly accepted as scientific fact. But still the rate of
decay can easily be measured, and hence we have half-lives. What is
the half-life of a phenomenon? Or a UFO? And how would you measure
this?
>>>
>>>In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.
>
>>No argument, but where do we go from here? This alone is not
>>sufficient.
>You and I agree on this. The answer seems obvious to me. You don't
>argue that the _phenomenon_ is real (as I stated above). So, if this
>"alone is not sufficient", we do what science dictates that we do.
I guess that I was unclear. I agree that the phenomena exists.
That was what was meant by "No argument."
>We study it further.
It does not neccesarily follow that the existance of a phenomena
makes it worthwhile to study. It may or may not be. But there are
an infinite number of things to study (OK, a very large number),
and neither you nor I nor anyone has time or resources to study
them all. So we go with out strengths.
>>
>>>Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists. Evidence for a particular "UFO"
>>>(whatever that may be) does not.
>>
>>A flying saucer might be studied. How does one study a phenomenon?
>Ask a psychologist.
Then who are we discussion UFO's as a subject for scientific
investigation?
>>
>>>Now, let me rephrase the above....
>>>
>>>"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists. Evidence that
>>>atom #1E37 is going to split does not.
>>>
>>>Do you see my point?
>>
>>I see your point. But things with boring repeatability have never
>>been that difficult to study.
>I would venture to say that the reporting of UFO sightings occurs quite
>often worldwide. Can we demand that a UFO appear? No. Therefore, it is
>not repeatable on demand. So what? That doesn't change the fact that
>thousands of reports occur annually.
So what? Let's not confuse "repeatable on demand" with completely
random in place and time. If only the place were repeatable, then
one might set up some sort of automated equipment to look for
EM bursts, changes in the magnetic field, etc... But it is difficult
to monitor the entire world at all times.
>>>
>>>Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).
>>>It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters. If you're
>>>in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.
>>
>>I think that the requirements to eat and pay the rent might
>>just possibly make it into the objective category. Unless you
>>make a living doing something else, and study the phenomenon on
>>your own.
>No. That makes it especially subjective.
I would say that requirements for food, shelter, and clothing are
objective. To each their own I guess.
>>>Such as? You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of
>>>the UFO phenomenon. That is blatantly false. Would you care to provide
>>>evidence of this?
>>
>>It is not possible to _prove_ that a thing does not exist.
>>Rather, the problem here is defining just what the phenomenon
>>is. Right now all we have is the 'phenomenon' label, and claims
>>of alien spacecraft. Would you care to try to get funding
>>based upon this?
>I'm not asking for that. I simply meant that if you _are_ implying that
>those who _do_ seriously study the subject (few as they may be) are not
>doing so in a scientific manner, then you evidently have evidence of some
>sort to lead you to make such an assertion.
Did I say that ">those who _do_ seriously study the subject" do so
unscientifically? I don't see it in rereading. And therefore I do
not seem to have made any assertions. You, above, do say that
there is valid scientific investigation going on. Would you be so
kind as to elucidate?
>As for defining the phenomenon...well...I don't see that as a problem.
Once again, we have a label : UFO. This is just a bit short of
defining the phenomenon for my taste. Would you care to spell out
what you mean by the "phenomenon" for me?
>The phenomenon _is_. If one weighs most if not all of the anecdotal and
>physical trace evidence, it's clear that there is no single _cause_ of
>the phenomenon. In fact, the phenomenon may be divided into categories.
>And yes, I _did_ say "physical trace evidence".
>I'll be happy to explain if you wish, but let's assume that I'm right.
>What's the difference between this "trace" evidence and say, trace evidence
>that the element Lead was once unstable? We can't repeat that can we?
I still do not think that atomic decay is a proper parallel to the
UFO phenomenon.
>>>
>>>The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time. Unfortunately,
>>>it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because
>>>of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject. What I
>>>find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the
>>>_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current
>>>SETI research. That is absurd.
>>
>>While I think the chances of SETI working are so slim as to
>>make it a wasted effort, how does one compare SETI to a conspiricy
>>theory, and find an absurdity.
>"Conspiracy"? What are you talking about? Did I miss something?
Keep reading alt.aliens.visitors, if you have not seem any conspiracy
theories, you will. Many posts are cross-posted to alt.conspiracy.
>>Also you claim we have a UFO
>>'phenomenon', not alien intelligence, how do you reconcile that
>>with the clear implication that UFO are extraterrestial
>>intelligences above?
>No, no, NO! I am not equating the two. I'm pointing out that "science"
>is perfectly happy to look for something it has 0 evidence for (unless you
But they are lookin for something they can detect using well known
tools and techniques. And in places where they might expect to find
life.
>consider the fact that _we_ exist the evidence). Yet, when we have
>thousands of people worldwide making extraordinary claims, many with
>physical traces, instrumental observations, etc., we laugh it off as
>nothing.
I'll admit, after much study, I still do not know what to make of the
phenomenon. But cleary there is much fraud and fakery. And many of
the observations are natural phenomenon under unusual circumstances.
And many extrordinary claims are made. Why does the onus of proof
rest upon the scientific community?
>>>>Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)
>>
>>Rich
>>
>>payner@netcom.com Sig is at the cleaners.
>
>Regards,
>Jim Graham
>
> -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
> Neither do they speak for me.
> ______________________________________________________________________
>| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
>| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
>| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
>| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
>|______________________________________________________________________|
Rich again
payner@netcom.com
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-col!col!lpj
From: lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off
Message-ID: <73230001@col.hp.com>
Date: 20 Feb 92 19:44:28 GMT
References: <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Lines: 7
> why would the American government spend
>- waste the people's money studying a rock?
Hadn't you noticed? The American government is in the business
of spending and wasting people's money. That's what it does.
-LJ (feeling cynical today)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham
From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <1992Feb22.022929.29031@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 22 Feb 92 02:18:45 GMT
References: <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com>
Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
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In article <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...
>
>>In article <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...
>>>In article <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>>>In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...
>>>>>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>>>>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...
>
>>>>Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.
>>>
>>>Curiously, when many people _say_ UFO, they mean _alien spacecraft_.
>>>So what they are talking about is not an unknown deserving of study,
>>>but those darn aliens.
>
>>Ah, but who cares? If you read my previous posts, you won't find _me_
>>attributing UFO's to "alien spacecraft". I've been arguing about the
>>phenomenon. Once again, someone else (you, this time) is forcing the
>>"alien" issue.
>
>>Why?
>
>I'm not forcing this or any other issue. This -->is<-- alt.alien.visitors,
>and if you have followed the other threads, you will know about the planet
>ummo, the greys, several conspiracies, etc... And they do belong here.
>How is it that you can act as they are not part of the phenomena? Any
>study which ignores part of the data cannot be considered unbiased.
First, I realize this is alt.alien.visitors. However, the original thread
started with someone (Don Allen I think) posting some statistics concerning
the percentage of astronomers that thought the UFO phenomenon should
receive further scientific study. There was _no_, 0, nadda mention of
"aliens" in that post.
The fact that Don posted here may _imply_ that aliens should be attributed,
but the content of the post shows otherwise.
Granted, maybe we should take this to sci.skeptic, and if you desire this,
I'll start adding it to the newsgroups: line, but I suspect that if we
do, those folks will tell us that it belongs in alt.alien.visitors, since
the armchair skeptic is the one that _usually_ makes the attribution when
the debate becomes difficult for them to handle.
>
>>>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth
>>>>>>about this phenomenon need apply.
>>>
>>>Need there be a single TRVTH? Or even just one phenomenon? I thought
>>>we were dealing with an unknown? Hopefully I have guessed correctly
>>>who originally said this.
>
>>Absolutely. Show me where I have insisted that there is _one_ truth to
>>be found here.
>
>I see above ">>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth".
>And I checked, these were your words. Are you saying the "the truth"
>is non-singular?
No, _you_ implied this.
>
>>>>My statement about "truth" stands.
>
>>>
>>>I tend to think that there is no truth, just different points of
>>>view.
>
>>No offense, but doesn't this statement strike you as rather "unscientific"?
>
>Scientific investigation is good for exploring objective reality. But
>"truth" is not an objective reality. I would say that any study
>go find some objective "truth" would absolutely not be a scientific
>investigation.
Ok. You have your own definition of "truth". That's fine, as long as we
both know this.
My definition of "truth" is a simple one. A "fact" is a "truth". Something
that is a part of objective reality is a "truth".
Let's stop playing with words and address the issue, ok?
>>>>>
>>>>>Simple question: You want repeatability. Show me how you can, in a
>>>>laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in
>>>>a nuclear fission reaction. Show me a real, honest to goodness
>>>>black hole.
>>>
>>>This seems to be a straw-man argument. The truth or falsity of the
>>>above has no bearing upon the value of studying the "UFO phenomenon".
>>>Nevertheless, fission, while not predictable, is quite repeatable,
>>>and the rate can be measured. Now if only UFO observations were as
>>>repeatable, this thread would never have existed. And there is
>>>a pretty good theoretical basis behind black holes. What theory
>>>perdicts UFO`s?
>
>>>What theory predicts that atom 1E37 will divide? Look, the point I'm
>>>trying to make is that we keep hearing that the UFO phenomenon is not
>>>repeatable in a laboratory. Of course it isn't. But neither are other
>>>things which we _accept_ in science as valid. I have yet to see the
>>>difference.
>
>>Most importantly, much of science does NOT begin in the laboratory in
>>a repeatable setting. It begins with _something_ that raises questions.
>
>>If that "something" has raised a question, then the next step is to
>>decide whether we can _try_ to answer it. That is where the current
>>state of the study of the UFO phenomenon rests. It has never gone
>>beyond this.
>
>>For one to cry that there is no "repeatable" evidence of the phenomenon
>>is to deny the birth of other scientific advances. Many of those did
>>not start in a laboratory. They started with _observation_, something
>>that should be a holy word to science.
>
>The key here is that repeatable phenomena _can_ be investigated. If
>we had only reports of uranium atome splitting, and from at best
>questionable sources, would we be talking about fission today?
And are all (in fact most) _sources_ of sighting reports "questionable"?
What are you implying?
>>Fission, as a phenomenon, is deliberately repeatable. I agree.
>
>>However, there was a time when it was _not_. It was only a "theory".
>
>As I recall, atoms at the time were considered unsplitable. Theory
>denied that atome could split. Only after it was undisputably
>observed was the phenomenon given proper study, and the nuclear
>sciences were born.
Again, I think we need to agree on a definition of "undisputably
observed". You seem to keep avoiding my insistance that I have been
talking about the ufo _phenomenon_. Not a singular report of a strange
object seen in the sky by Bayou Bill.
I think UFO's have been "undisputably observed". If not, tell me why
you disagree and what would change your mind. Remember that I am
referring to what I consider the undeniable existance of the _phenomenon_,
NOT a particular object.
>>How did we achieve repeatability? By studying the processes that we
>>thought should lead to it. Call it a bit of forensic science if you
>>will. In any case, we _believed_ (for the most part) that we should
>>be able to actually split something we could not see and still haven't.
>
>Did we achieve repeatability? Is this not intrinsic to either
>the phenomenon or to our methods of observation?
Yes. At the macro level, that is true.
Suppose you really wanted to study the ufo phenomenon. How would _you_
propose achieving repeatability of a phenomenon that exists but is
"transient" in nature?
>>At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth, I'll go one step further and
>>say that fission is NOT repeatable and NOT predictable for any particular
>>single atom. There is a probability that atom #1E37 _may_ divide.
>
>This is solidly accepted as scientific fact. But still the rate of
>decay can easily be measured, and hence we have half-lives. What is
>the half-life of a phenomenon? Or a UFO? And how would you measure
>this?
Does it matter? What is the "half-life" of the violent crime phenomenon?
What is the "half-life" of the ball-lightning phenomenon?
What is the "half-life" of the earthquake "phenomenon"?
How would you measure these?
The point I'm making is that not all "phenomena" are predictable,
reproducible on demand, and directly measurable. Some of these are
readily accepted by science as valid, even though science can't
really practice what it preaches when faced with them.
>
>>>>
>>>>In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.
>>
>
>>>No argument, but where do we go from here? This alone is not
>>>sufficient.
>
>>You and I agree on this. The answer seems obvious to me. You don't
>>argue that the _phenomenon_ is real (as I stated above). So, if this
>>"alone is not sufficient", we do what science dictates that we do.
>
>I guess that I was unclear. I agree that the phenomena exists.
>That was what was meant by "No argument."
>
>>We study it further.
>
>It does not neccesarily follow that the existance of a phenomena
>makes it worthwhile to study. It may or may not be. But there are
>an infinite number of things to study (OK, a very large number),
>and neither you nor I nor anyone has time or resources to study
>them all. So we go with out strengths.
I agree. So, if one chooses to "study" the phenomenon _scientifically_,
why the stigma on those who actually attempt this?
Who decides what is "worthy"? The government? You? Me? The rest of
"science"?
If we are asking for money to study, then it makes sense that the
moneygiver makes the decision (either directly or indirectly).
But that says absolutely nothing about how "worthy" something is of
scientific study. It is, in a sense, a straw man.
If we are arguing the merits of studying one phenomenon over another,
based on available funding, then we are discussing...well...the topic
of funding.
However, that was not and is not why this thread on astronomers and
ufos began.
>
>>>
>>>>Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists. Evidence for a particular "UFO"
>>>>(whatever that may be) does not.
>>>
>>>A flying saucer might be studied. How does one study a phenomenon?
>
>>Ask a psychologist.
>
>Then who are we discussion UFO's as a subject for scientific
>investigation?
Can you ask this again? I don't understand the above (it's garbled).
Sorry.
>>>
>>>>Now, let me rephrase the above....
>>>>
>>>>"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists. Evidence that
>>>>atom #1E37 is going to split does not.
>>>>
>>>>Do you see my point?
>>>
>>>I see your point. But things with boring repeatability have never
>>>been that difficult to study.
>
>>I would venture to say that the reporting of UFO sightings occurs quite
>>often worldwide. Can we demand that a UFO appear? No. Therefore, it is
>>not repeatable on demand. So what? That doesn't change the fact that
>>thousands of reports occur annually.
>
>So what? Let's not confuse "repeatable on demand" with completely
>random in place and time. If only the place were repeatable, then
>one might set up some sort of automated equipment to look for
>EM bursts, changes in the magnetic field, etc... But it is difficult
>to monitor the entire world at all times.
Well, we do that with meteorologically satellites all the time :-).
We do it with geological instruments all the time.
In certain "flaps" of sightings, it is done. But, it is _still_ not
seriously considered or studied by mainstream science.
The opportunity has shown itself numerous times, but...no bites.
And, when someone within the Ufology community (and I refer to the
serious investigators, not the channeling space brother folks),
that too is conveniently ignored because armchair sceptics have already
made up their minds.
There is a wealth of data gathered via investigation by serious
investigators, that is just _waiting_ to be chewed upon (and perhaps
spit out) by mainstream science, but it doesn't even bite.
>>>>
>>>>Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).
>>>>It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters. If you're
>>>>in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.
>>>
>>>I think that the requirements to eat and pay the rent might
>>>just possibly make it into the objective category. Unless you
>>>make a living doing something else, and study the phenomenon on
>>>your own.
>
>>No. That makes it especially subjective.
>
>I would say that requirements for food, shelter, and clothing are
>objective. To each their own I guess.
>
In a collective sense, I could stretch the word "objective" to make it
fit.
In any case, these are givens. The "worthiness" of getting answers to
unanswered questions is still purely subjective.
>>>>Such as? You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of
>>>>the UFO phenomenon. That is blatantly false. Would you care to provide
>>>>evidence of this?
>>>
>>>It is not possible to _prove_ that a thing does not exist.
>>>Rather, the problem here is defining just what the phenomenon
>>>is. Right now all we have is the 'phenomenon' label, and claims
>>>of alien spacecraft. Would you care to try to get funding
>>>based upon this?
>
>>I'm not asking for that. I simply meant that if you _are_ implying that
>>those who _do_ seriously study the subject (few as they may be) are not
>>doing so in a scientific manner, then you evidently have evidence of some
>>sort to lead you to make such an assertion.
>
>Did I say that ">those who _do_ seriously study the subject" do so
>unscientifically? I don't see it in rereading. And therefore I do
>not seem to have made any assertions. You, above, do say that
>there is valid scientific investigation going on. Would you be so
>kind as to elucidate?
Hmmm. I should point out that _you_ used the word "valid" above.
The most obvious investigation that comes to mind is that of
Trans en Province. That was an actual _trace_ case. Sorry, but there
were not pieces of unidentified craft. There _was_ true scientific
analysis of soil and botanic traces, but three different laboratories.
If you really want the poop, I'll get the references next week since
they're at work.
In a nutshell, an unusual object was observed to have hit or skimmed
the ground, only to take off again shortly after.
The traces left were unexplainable characteristic changes to the soil
in the immediate vicinity of the object, and unusual changes to surrounding
plantlife.
Soil samples were submitted to 3 (if I recall) laboratories, went through
various tests, and all three reports were in agreement.
>
>>As for defining the phenomenon...well...I don't see that as a problem.
>
>Once again, we have a label : UFO. This is just a bit short of
>defining the phenomenon for my taste. Would you care to spell out
>what you mean by the "phenomenon" for me?
Apparently we both misunderstand each other.
When talking about the UFO phenomenon, I see two distinct categories
ripe for study.
a.) A particular sighting, case, whatever you wish to consider. This
is the most difficult (IMO) to study, since it is by definition
a transient phenomenon.
b.) The phenomenon. Even this may be subdivided into categories, such
as the abduction phenomenon, which is slowly but surely beginning
to be studied by real scientists and some respected scientists in the
field of psychology.
In any case, when I refer to the study of the _phenomenon_, I am
referring to the fact that _something_ is going on. It simply
hasn't been explained.
>>The phenomenon _is_. If one weighs most if not all of the anecdotal and
>>physical trace evidence, it's clear that there is no single _cause_ of
>>the phenomenon. In fact, the phenomenon may be divided into categories.
>
>>And yes, I _did_ say "physical trace evidence".
>
>>I'll be happy to explain if you wish, but let's assume that I'm right.
>
>>What's the difference between this "trace" evidence and say, trace evidence
>>that the element Lead was once unstable? We can't repeat that can we?
>
>I still do not think that atomic decay is a proper parallel to the
>UFO phenomenon.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
While atomic decay is repeatable and predictable on the macro scale,
you cannot make a particular atom split.
The UFO phenomenon exists. It is not repeatable _on demand_. It is
repeatable in the sense that it continues. It is not predictable
on a macro scale, but is somewhat predictable on the "regional" scale
(ie flaps usually occur over an extended period in a particular area).
>
>>>>
>>>>The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time. Unfortunately,
>>>>it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because
>>>>of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject. What I
>>>>find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the
>>>>_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current
>>>>SETI research. That is absurd.
>>>
>>>While I think the chances of SETI working are so slim as to
>>>make it a wasted effort, how does one compare SETI to a conspiricy
>>>theory, and find an absurdity.
>
>>"Conspiracy"? What are you talking about? Did I miss something?
>
>Keep reading alt.aliens.visitors, if you have not seem any conspiracy
>theories, you will. Many posts are cross-posted to alt.conspiracy.
But that's my point. What does any conspiracies have to do with this
discussion? I haven't implied any, have I?
>>>Also you claim we have a UFO
>>>'phenomenon', not alien intelligence, how do you reconcile that
>>>with the clear implication that UFO are extraterrestial
>>>intelligences above?
>
>>No, no, NO! I am not equating the two. I'm pointing out that "science"
>>is perfectly happy to look for something it has 0 evidence for (unless you
>
>But they are lookin for something they can detect using well known
>tools and techniques. And in places where they might expect to find
>life.
You mean like eyes to look at instruments? Minds to form hypothesis?
The truth is, in SETI, they really don't _know_ what to look for. They
_assume_ that communication is most likely to occur at certain "magic"
frequencies.
They are looking for something they can detect, as you said. But
_why_ are they looking _where_ they're looking?
Look, it is very common for people to attribute UFO's to ETI.
There really is no evidence to support that assumption.
However, don't you find it ironic that we would be spending millions
looking for something light years away that we have yet to sense,
let alone have any evidence for, and yet, right here at home we have
thousands of reports of unidentified objects annually, which most
people naturally (but perhaps mistakenly) attribute to little green
men, and yet, we don't pay attention?
We search for ETI elsewhere with little probability of success, yet
ignore the possibility of better success right here at home.
>
>>consider the fact that _we_ exist the evidence). Yet, when we have
>>thousands of people worldwide making extraordinary claims, many with
>>physical traces, instrumental observations, etc., we laugh it off as
>>nothing.
>
>I'll admit, after much study, I still do not know what to make of the
>phenomenon. But cleary there is much fraud and fakery. And many of
>the observations are natural phenomenon under unusual circumstances.
>And many extrordinary claims are made. Why does the onus of proof
>rest upon the scientific community?
Who said it does? Not me. I didn't mean to imply that. All I will
assert is that the onus of further serious study rests with those
most qualified to do so. That is known as responsibility.
If proof comes from that, fine.
That is why I made an earlier remark about forensic science. It _is_
a science, you know. It's sole purpose is to _study_ any available
evidence (usually in the form of traces), and come to some sort of
conclusion.
But, if that was never done, a criminal case would have a difficult
time proceeding.
In like manner, true, serious investigation into the ufo phenomenon is
a precursor to doing any real "science" (IMO). That isn't happening
in mainstream science except perhaps in the field of psychology.
>
>Rich again
>
>payner@netcom.com
Jim Graham - ditto
-> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
Neither do they speak for me.
______________________________________________________________________
| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
|______________________________________________________________________|
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb22.032322.21884@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 22 Feb 92 03:23:22 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.133308.11178@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>
Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 31
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4602 sci.space:26907 sci.skeptic:20910 alt.paranormal:4460
mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) writes:
[stuff on movies of flight over planetary surfaces deleted]
>>NASA's already done something like this for Venus. Well, it wasn't
>>interactive, but they've got a nice video clip of parts of Venus from the point
>>of view of someone flying over the surface. Sorry, I don't know how you would
>>et a copy of it.
>They've done quite a few. I believe the original research into this
>technique was done at JPL. I've seen _LA, the Movie_, _Mars, the Movie_
>and _Europa, the Movie_. (I think Europa, it was one of the Jovian
>moons.) It's quite breath taking to watch. Try contacting the public
>affairs offices of NASA or JPL. They may provide video tapes for educational
>use. You can get an amazing amount of material either free or real
>cheap if you dig enough.
Yes, I mentioned this in a follow up post. As I recall, it was not Europa,
but Miranda, a moon of Uranus. Europa is one of the smoothest bodies is the
solar system, and, as such, doesn't make for very interesting terrain.
I also invited people to mail me if they want the adress to write to for NASA
videos. I don't have the adress here, but I will have it tomorrow, and will
mail all those who ask for it then.
Josh Hopkins
>-
>McCreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com Computers are like Old Testament gods;
>EMcCreary@uh.edu lots of rules and no mercy.
>#include <stddisclaimer.h> Joseph Campbell
> "Ooooohhhh we got movie sign!!" MST3K
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!utzoo!censor!comspec!becker!bdb
From: bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.brother-jed,alt.desert-shield.erotica,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.fishing,alt.tasteless,alt.true.crime
Subject: boom
Message-ID: <137762@becker.UUCP>
Date: 21 Feb 92 18:06:20 GMT
Organization: G. T. S., Toronto, Ontario
Lines: 33
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4603 alt.brother-jed:945 alt.exploding.kibo:80 alt.fishing:3725 alt.tasteless:7855
DEAD HUNTERS GIVEN FINAL SHOTGUN BLAST
Associated Press
DES MOINES, Iowa - The way Jay Knudsen
sees it, the ashes of dead hunters don't
belong in urns on the mantle. So, for
about the cost of a funeral and sometimes
a lot less, he will take the ashes to the
sportsman's favourite marsh or bear
country and blast them to smithereens.
"We can't get you to heaven," he
advertises, "but we promise to land you in
the happy hunting ground."
A landscaper by trade, Mr. Knudsen has
an off-season service for the survivors of
dedicated hunters. He loads ashes into
shotgun shells, performs whatever ritual
the family wishes and then blasts away.
"This is not a morbid thing, to shoot
ol' Joe down the barrel of a shotgun in an
area he loved to hunt," Mr. Knudsen said.
--
,u, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ontario
a /i/ Internet: bdb@becker.gts.org, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu
`\o\-e UUCP: ...!lsuc!becker!bdb
_< /_ "Ceci n'est pas un \"" - Rene "Day" Taxi # 12 & 35
Path: ns-mx!uunet!verifone.com!ed_l1
From: ed_l1@verifone.com
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.120122.3747@verifone.com>
Date: 21 Feb 92 22:01:21 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com>
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI
Lines: 28
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20912 sci.space:26910 alt.paranormal:4461 alt.alien.visitors:4604
In article <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com>, sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
> In article <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>> And, of course, anyone dismissing Mr. Peck's work and/or his
>>credibility must also put forth a compelling argument to substantiate their
>>dismissal, otherwise their opinion carries no weight whatsoever.
>>
> Sorry, that's backwards. Anyone ACCEPTING Peck's conclusion must put forth
> a compelling reason why the "devil possession" hypothesis is correct,
> and modern science is wrong.
>
> The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on whoever makes extraordinary claims.
Oh? Like your claim that he is wrong without any evidence to support
that contention? That's pretty extraordinary.
Hmmm. Sounds like personal opinion to me; carries only as much weight
as anyone else's personal opinion.
>
> --
>
> Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
>
> Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
Not suprising....
However, a _real_ skeptic would withhold opinion without adequate evidence.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: California CE-3's
Message-ID: <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 21 Feb 92 03:48:01 GMT
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 22
Yesterday I saw an ABC news report on an anonymous family in California who
claim that they're visited by aliens every night. The aliens probe them
with beams of light, sometimes right through the ceiling of the house while
the family is awake. They made drawings of the ships and they look fairly
complex, with rows of lights or jets on the bottom. They also have
videotape of them, but the videotape just shows large, pale circular
lights. As a telescope owner, I'm nearly certain it's way out of focus
(like part of the Scranton tape was) and possibly insufficiently bright as
well -- would someone please buy these guys a low-light camera and show
them how to use it? Or a floodlight? (The report even mentioned that
people claim the tape is a camera effect, though they didn't offer any
explanation of what lights were responsible for it.) On the other hand,
the lights move independently of each other and change brightness.
The local news anchor mentioned the obvious question: Why didn't the news
crew stick around until nighttime?
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy
From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where are th AZ/NM references?
Message-ID: <1992Feb21.182332.27345@anasaz>
Date: 21 Feb 92 18:23:32 GMT
References: <1992Feb20.230458.15326@tellab5.tellabs.com>
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az
Lines: 17
In article <1992Feb20.230458.15326@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@sunGb.tellabs.com (jcj) writes:
->
->Awhile ago, somebody made a series of claims re: Apache attack 'copters,
->roadblocks, etc. involved in a "CEIII"-like series of events in Arizona or
->New Mexico. He said he'd post specific references to local newspaper
->articles allegedly written about this. Were they posted and I missed
->them? Thanks.
->--
I'm the one who challenged this claim and to whom he promised to respond.
He has not. Since I live in Arizona, read the "local" newspapers he refered
to and, despite my interest in UFOs, never noticed any such story, I doubt
he will.
-
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Path: ns-mx!uunet!hoptoad!chroma
From: chroma@hoptoad.uucp (Steve Kudlak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?
Message-ID: <26506@hoptoad.uucp>
Date: 22 Feb 92 13:43:18 GMT
References: <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <jms.07dr@vanth.UUCP>
Reply-To: chroma@toad.com
Organization: Mountain View Labs Genetic Engineering
Lines: 91
In article <jms.07dr@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:
>In article <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) writes:
>>Asteroids can be fatal to radio careers to. It seems that former
>>science advisor to radio talk show host Chuck Harder, Richard
>>Hoagland, embarrassed Harder on the air, thereby severing his
>>weekly spot on Harders show. Harder had been speaking publicly on
>>his program about an alleged asteroid that had been, according to
>>what appeared to be a New York Times story from 1977 speeding its way to
>>Earth, making what the story claimed were course changes. The Times article
>>duly quoted purported scientists, and sounded very legit; it turned out that
>>when the New York Times Index was checked, along with microfiche copies from
>>that date and several days after, no such article could be found. It was
>>someone's very real looking fabrication.
>
>It wasn't an intentional hoax (except for the idiot who circulated it as
>real, whoever he was.) It's page 101 of a fictional book titled "The
>Extraterrestrial Report", by Richard Siegel, John H. Butterfield, and
>Jean-Claude Suares, Copyright 1978, published by A&W Publishers, Inc., 95
>Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016. Library of Congress Catalog Card
>Number 77-91031, ISBN # 0-89104-093-5. (Just in case anyone wants to
>check.)
>
>The book contains a number of fake government documents, fake magazine
>articles, and fake newspaper articles. The government documents and
>magazine articles are obvious satire. The fake New York Times articles
>don't have a satirical tone, unfortunately. (Unless, considering the
>publication date, the name "Lucas Hamill" is a reference to the movie "Star
>Wars".)
>
>I've often wondered whether the book could have been the inspiration for
>a large part of the conspiracy scenario as we know it today. It starts
>with a document found in the Truman Library in which Truman is worried
>about the aliens, then jumps to the present where a SETI team makes contact
>with aliens. The Federal Agency for Interstellar Contact (FAIC,
>obviously) is formed to take control of the situation. They announce
>that the signal was a hoax and force the shutdown of the SETI facility,
>while secretly continuing work on it themselves. FAIC is a highly
>secretive group, even President Carter doesn't have a clue about it.
>Eventually the aliens, who are friendly, land and sign a treaty with us.
>We grant them the right to fly through our solar system, and in return they
>educate us about the universe. They warn us about a parasitic race who are
>on their way to Earth with a large spaceship to destroy us. Eventually
>astronomers detect this ship, which is covered up by claiming that it's an
>asteroid. Then the race is on to figure out a way to stop it.
>
>--
> * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
> Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
> 37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
> Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
%This might not be the place for it, but WOWZERS! this would make a great
novel or sci-fi novel. I have read J.G. Ballard who supposedly has a great
ability to synthesize and produce something that contains an admixture of
stories with parts that sound like they have been extracted from Government
Documents written in that Government Document Style. I was never very
impressed by these things, perhaps it was becasue he kind of has a few too
many moral/philosophical axes to grind, and things seemed a little too
preachy in a sneaky way.
What I would be really interested in is a set of books that proport to
go on in this sort of style, with "fictional newspaper reports" and
"fictional government documents" and the like, or something that mixes
fact and fiction for some effect like UFO ideas. I am less interested
in the actual factual veracity of these materials, although some idea
of that would be nice, and more in the "romantic content" of them. That
is what they express about human emotions, desires and relations to
the concept of "alieness". Things thazt sound particualrly convincing
would be a good idea. I have read a lots of the "Commander X" type of
books about the proported underground tunnels, secret underground basis
etc. but they never seemed even emotionally convincing to me. There
were a few of the "alien breeding experiments" and "aliens created
humans beings from simian ancestors" that sounded at least emotionally
appealing and interesting.
The big thing for me is that over the years I have become much more
interested in what all this means emotionally and intellectually to
people and less interested in the hardcore "nuts and bolts" although
I really do think that many people including nuts-and-boltzers, sceptics,
mystics and others do bring interesting insights to the area, but
there does seem to be a dearth of "good written material" in my not
so humble opinion. So any helpful material would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Sends Steve
chroma@toad.com
"Even Monkeys Fall From Trees"
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy
From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: California CE-3's
Message-ID: <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 22 Feb 92 19:05:55 GMT
References: <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 36
In article <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:
>Yesterday I saw an ABC news report on an anonymous family in California who
>claim that they're visited by aliens every night. The aliens probe them
>with beams of light, sometimes right through the ceiling of the house while
>the family is awake. They made drawings of the ships and they look fairly
Couldn't be beams of light - ceilings tend to stop those.
>complex, with rows of lights or jets on the bottom. They also have
>videotape of them, but the videotape just shows large, pale circular
No surprise here. You would think with all the camcorders out
these days, one person would be able to actually film a UFO without
focusing problems. Bullshit about aliens affecting electronics is
a cop-out.
>lights. As a telescope owner, I'm nearly certain it's way out of focus
>(like part of the Scranton tape was) and possibly insufficiently bright as
>well -- would someone please buy these guys a low-light camera and show
>them how to use it? Or a floodlight? (The report even mentioned that
>people claim the tape is a camera effect, though they didn't offer any
>explanation of what lights were responsible for it.) On the other hand,
>the lights move independently of each other and change brightness.
>
>The local news anchor mentioned the obvious question: Why didn't the news
>crew stick around until nighttime?
>
Because then the aliens would be scared away. Yeah, right.
--
Phred Platypus [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ]
"Technology is a way of organizing \
the universe so that man doesn't \ The Grammarian of Vengeance
have to experience it." -- Max Frisch \
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!unido!mcsun!uknet!pyrltd!lucifer!mikeb
From: mikeb@eg.lucasauto.co.uk (Mike Brady)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1241@lucifer.UUCP>
Date: 19 Feb 92 17:00:17 GMT
References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Distribution: eunet
Organization: Lucas Powertrain Systems, Electronic Control Group, UK
Lines: 20
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4609 sci.space:26928 sci.skeptic:20918 alt.paranormal:4465
I remember reading of the first picture ever sent back by
Viking. As the picture materialised on the screen those at
mission control were amazed to see a perfect letter 'E' on the
top corner. Feeling slightly foolish they waited expectantly
for the rest of the message to appear. It didn't. It was just
a freak of nature.
Or was it?
Mike.
(source: i think it was Michener's faction novel 'Space')
///////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
//// It was me, not the company, although I was there.\\\\
// I may be a germ up God's nose having the most \\
//// unusual dream or else ... shshsh ... WOW ... it's real !!
///////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <1992Feb23.014702.24910@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Date: 23 Feb 92 01:47:02 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com> <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com>
Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 25
In article <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>
>> What is Earth's radio noise output like these days? Assuming no
>>attempt on our part to be noticed by hypothetical ETIs, would it be
>>obvious to the ETIs why the sun (or a close companion to it) appeared
>>to be a major radio source?
>
> UM --- that's one of the better suggestions. You could get
>several things from this: the distance from the Earth to the Sun,
>as well as the rotation and revolution periods of the Earth as well...
>I don't know how many Janskys the Earth puts out, offhand.
>
> The big problem here is of course where to look... Even FM
>is a pretty large bandwidth to sample, and there isn't and logical reason
>for ETs to start looking there (that I know of).
>
A hstory question here: anyone know how much of the way we use
radio (in terms of radio vs TV broadcasts, etc) is forced on us by
physics and how much was a 'fluke' product of early decisions in the
field (Like, for example, early radio stations using a range of frequencies,
forcing later EMR communications to use other frequencies)?
James Nicoll
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!news.bbn.com!hsdndev!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc8.harvard.edu!mcirvin
From: mcirvin@husc8.harvard.edu (Mcirvin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new id
Summary: Accidental cross-postings
Keywords: Pointless cross-postings
Message-ID: <1992Feb22.221030.9074@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 23 Feb 92 03:10:27 GMT
References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu> <1992Feb21.010546.21356@news.Hawaii.Edu>
Organization: Harvard University Science Center
Lines: 21
Nntp-Posting-Host: husc8.harvard.edu
In article <1992Feb21.010546.21356@news.Hawaii.Edu> osborne@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Larry N. Osborne) writes:
>
>The article to which I'm following up, for example, was posted to:
>sci.skeptic, sci.physics, alt.sci.physics.new-theories,
>alt.paranormal, alt.alien.visitors, and sci.energy. You may as well
>try giving a wine tasting for an AA group(1) ... its impolite and only
>causes ill-feelings. (Although alt.sci.physics.new-theories is
>probably the exception, there seem to be a majority of rational and
>polite scientists there.)
The cross-posting to this group was an accident-- I neglected to
fully monitor the Newsgroups: line in the post in sci.physics to
which I was following up. I'm sorry if this caused any hard feelings;
I didn't post that just to bait alt.alien.visitors et al. readers, but to
explain an attitude existing in sci.physics (which is the reason for
the references to a sci.physics regular).
Again, I apologize for the posting and shall try to be more vigilant
in the future (this message is not being crossposted).
Matt McIrvin
Path: ns-mx!uunet!jwt!gary
From: bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <LwRkgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Date: 23 Feb 92 02:10:44 GMT
References: <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com>
Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login)
Organization: The Matrix
Lines: 40
press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
> In article <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:
> >
> > These things have taken over all the hospitals and so forth
> > in LA, and the phone systems around the country. They have a base
> > somewhere where they are holding the REAL people they have cloned.
> > If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely! It is time to
> > stand up and be counted as human beings, not some kind of play-
> > things. This is Gary Stollman, signing off from LA, California,
> > USA.
>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> I watch CNN alot...alot...alot..."`)twassle ummph, and I haven't
> noticed anything unusual. What is it we should look for?
>
> barry--
************
Well, when -I- watch it, and then suddenly switch to CNN headline news,
they have switched it to the SAME story I was just watching...Please
note, this has nothing to do with anyone except ME...The same thing goes
(or went) for the local affiliates here in LA...My mom was replaced by
respectively, Jesus, an alien clone created by the CIA, and several other
beings trying to destroy my credibility but basically my family...I am
not joking around about all this...I am QUITE sane, although I have been
forced illegally into mental hospitals around the country over the past
10 years...I have the proof...Pretty soon these things are gonna really
regret having screwed around with MY family!!
One of the proof consists of documents on which not only MY signature was
forged to obtain my medical records, but that of my case manager as
well...HIS CLONE signed the document, and you can clearly see the
difference in the signatures...I have had to wait years to get the proof,
but they are all gonna pay dearly...That is, if God doesn't get them
first!!!
Gary
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!psuvax1!hsdndev!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc8.harvard.edu!mcirvin
From: mcirvin@husc8.harvard.edu (Mcirvin)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas
Summary: The cross-posting was an accident. I'm sorry.
Keywords: Pointless cross-postings
Message-ID: <1992Feb22.223836.9076@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 23 Feb 92 03:38:35 GMT
References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu> <1992Feb21.010546.21356@news.Hawaii.Edu>
Organization: Harvard University Science Center
Lines: 33
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In article <1992Feb21.010546.21356@news.Hawaii.Edu> osborne@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Larry N. Osborne) writes:
>
>There are also those who _enjoy_ irritating people who don't have the
>same frame of reference. It seems to me that posting OOBEs to
>sci.skeptic is asking for a bashing, similarly the skeptics who
>monitor alt.alien.visitors in order to point and laugh are morally
>repugnant. [...]
>
>The article to which I'm following up, for example, was posted to:
>sci.skeptic, sci.physics, alt.sci.physics.new-theories,
>alt.paranormal, alt.alien.visitors, and sci.energy. You may as well
>try giving a wine tasting for an AA group(1) ... its impolite and only
>causes ill-feelings. (Although alt.sci.physics.new-theories is
>probably the exception, there seem to be a majority of rational and
>polite scientists there.)
The cross-posting to which you refer was an accident; I was following
up to an article posted in sci.physics and many other places, and
neglected to edit the Newsgroups: line. Of the places where it
was posted, the two really inappropriate ones are alt.paranormal
and alt.alien.visitors; I have already posted an apology in the
latter but seem to be having trouble posting to the former.
I assure you that the intention was not to bait anybody. I was
trying to answer a question in sci.physics about what the questioner
thought was an intolerant attitude on the part of scientists, and
if I used fighting words, I'm sorry about that too. .net.impoliteness
displeases me as much as it does you.
Again, I apologize for the mistake.
Matt McIrvin
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From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb23.044122.2652@cco.caltech.edu>
Date: 23 Feb 92 04:41:22 GMT
References: <5054@otc.otca.oz> <1992Feb14.092216.12524@info.ucl.ac.be> <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>,<1241@lucifer.UUCP>
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In article <1241@lucifer.UUCP>, mikeb@eg.lucasauto.co.uk (Mike Brady) writes:
>
>I remember reading of the first picture ever sent back by
>Viking. As the picture materialised on the screen those at
>mission control were amazed to see a perfect letter 'E' on the
>top corner. Feeling slightly foolish they waited expectantly
>for the rest of the message to appear. It didn't. It was just
>a freak of nature.
Even more interesting is the fact that in the first picture sent back by the
Viking lander, the Martian sky was BLUE. Later, the folks as JPL recalibrated
the sensing instruments. It still seems like quite a cooincidence to me that
the "miscalibration" resulted in something with a color scheme
indistinguishable from parts of Arizona.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL
Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy
From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <9yhhcrn@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 23 Feb 92 06:16:56 GMT
References: <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com> <LwRkgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
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In article <LwRkgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:
>press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
>
>************
>Well, when -I- watch it, and then suddenly switch to CNN headline news,
>they have switched it to the SAME story I was just watching...Please
>note, this has nothing to do with anyone except ME...The same thing goes
>(or went) for the local affiliates here in LA...My mom was replaced by
>respectively, Jesus, an alien clone created by the CIA, and several other
>beings trying to destroy my credibility but basically my family...I am
Your mom was replaced by Jesus? Did you notice the sex change
immediately? An alien clone created by the CIA? Which is it:
alien or American Made?
>not joking around about all this...I am QUITE sane, although I have been
>forced illegally into mental hospitals around the country over the past
>10 years...I have the proof...Pretty soon these things are gonna really
>regret having screwed around with MY family!!
Ooooohh.
>
>One of the proof consists of documents on which not only MY signature was
>forged to obtain my medical records, but that of my case manager as
>well...HIS CLONE signed the document, and you can clearly see the
>difference in the signatures...I have had to wait years to get the proof,
If it really WAS a clone, his handwriting would be the same. I
think you probably mean "doppleganger."
>but they are all gonna pay dearly...That is, if God doesn't get them
>first!!!
>
But wasn't your mom replaced by Jesus? If so, then God is
probably in on this too. Looks like you'll have to take Him out
as well.
--
"You ask me if sex is one of the most \\ // Phred Platypus
important things in life? Absolutely. \\ // Grammarian of Vengeance
But the lack of it is even likelier \\// [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ]
to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison \/ Vincent J. Murphy
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news
From: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu>
Date: 23 Feb 92 08:36:59 GMT
References: <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com> <1992Feb23.014702.24910@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Sender: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett)
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
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NNTP-Posting-Host: phad.hsc.usc.edu
>In article <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>>
>>> What is Earth's radio noise output like these days? Assuming no
>>>attempt on our part to be noticed by hypothetical ETIs, would it be
>>>obvious to the ETIs why the sun (or a close companion to it) appeared
>>>to be a major radio source?
>>
>>
>> The big problem here is of course where to look... Even FM
>>is a pretty large bandwidth to sample, and there isn't and logical reason
>>for ETs to start looking there (that I know of).
>>
Why wouldn't it be logical to look in those frequency ranges? Let's see now, in radio astronomy, it is well known that
planets such as Jupiter have emissions in the 10M band... Inquriring minds would only have to look approximately 30MHz
above that in order to find the beginning of the low VHF television band.. Any 'ET' supposedly looking for other life
would no doubt be doing a broad-band spectrum analysis of surrounding regions just to plot anything out of the ordinary.
Why search in the lower frequency ranges? Well, let's just say that it would be the lowest common denominator. Most
early technological societies would have to start in those frequency ranges, because the technology needed to transmit
in that frequency range is minimal. In the under-200MHz range we are already visible to all stars within say a 75 year
radius. Narrow the range to approxamitly 40 years, and we probably are brighter than the Sun in the under 20GHz range.
If I was an ET astronomer, I would be highly interested in why within roughy 75 years, there has appeared with growing
intensity a radio source out of seemingly nowhere that at this point outshines it's star over a broad range of frequencies
under 20GHz. Many of the frequencies being pulsed at precise very fast intervals at very high power, and others with
evidence of many types of modulation.
If they have skeptics there, no doubt some would be coming up with possibilities of a compact star, or be saying that
it is just noise. But further analysis would no doubt show that the patterns are chaotic indeed, but still follow a
fairly predictable non-random pattern. If they have recievers sensitive enough, they may be able to decode some of
our modulation after zeroing in on some of the stronger non-pulsed [non-radar] information carrying frequencies.
But then, you may be right... It may just be illogical that they would be looking at all, no doubt their leadership may
be just as thick-skinned as our world's, and they will be discussing philosophy and politics instead of providing the
money [or whatever they may use] to actually do something beyond talk.
I just had another thought along those lines, maybe this is the reason our governments don't want to fund SETI like
projects: 'If we are so conspicous, they'll come to us' [Hell of a pompous attitude to take, eh?].
Isn't it amazing that UFO sightings really started [in the UFO sense] in the mid to late '40's? Roughly 20 to 30
years after most of the ground-breaking research into higher frequencies in radio. And has increased stedily since
in every culture, in every corner of the globe. If a SETI-like project were to become reality [highly unlikely], they
should concentrate primarily within a 40 year radius in order to find anything, and to look for earth-like transmissions
and modulation, as if they have recieved our communications, and also decoded our modulation methods, would it not also
be likely that they would attempt to resond in like fashion? Even if they do not understand our languages, would it not
be strange to hear a 20 to 40 year old radio broadcast or see a TV broadcast from that time frame coming from an amplified
source in the vicinity of another star? It would effectively get the point across that the message was recieved, eh? Of
course such a broadcast would have to be sustained until contact was made [after all we might not be looking in the right
direction for some time], but it would probably be justified on the part of the ETs, how often do you find out that you are
not alone in the universe? Wouldn't we do the same?
Enough said, I'll await your cheers [and jeers] for this little speech!
--
+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
| dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed,
| Just my opinions! | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! - #6, The Prisoner
+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews
From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Cry of the Phar Right -- Part 21/60
Message-ID: <111657.29A6B5CB@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 22 Feb 92 17:34:00 GMT
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In a message to All <11 Feb 92 19:03> Andrew Ormsby wrote:
AO> In article <1992Feb9.124424.28269@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp
AO> (Don Allen) writes:
AO> "There does exist an international Anglophile network which
AO> ^^^^^^^^^^
AO> operates, to some extent, in the way the Radical Right believes
AO> the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify
AO> as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with
AO> the Communists--and frequently does so."
AO> According to my dictionary, an Anglophile is someone with excessive
AO> admiration of English customs. Does this mean an end to tea drinking
AO> as we know it?
Please don't despair, Andrew. The Right-Wing International Anglophile conspiracy may yet prevail! Of course, this victory would lead inevitably to forced tea-drinking, caning, Pedophilia, and BBC-1 write-ins among the educated classes.
Personally I approve of this, because I'm not averse to a nice bit of crumpet from time to time myself. :-)
Also, before we condemn the Right-Wing International Anglo-pedophile plot, we should ask ourselves honestly if we are *really* prepared for the alternative. Without order, decorum and caning, the world would be reduced to a giant Monty Python Cheese Shop sketch. Besides which, we would be forced to stop using Third-World babies to make the upholstery for our Jags. It would be an environment too alien and ungratifying to bear.
AO> Is it possible to summarise this "Cry of the Pheonix" thread? I've
AO> only glanced at a small part of it. Seems pretty incoherent to me.
Incoherent? REALLY??
AO> What is it all about? Something to do with JFK? Or Japanese food?
Well, according to the alien master Hatoon (or Cartoon or Poltroon or something), William Milton Cooper of California killed JFK with some blowfish sushi. Then Governor Connally covered up the crime by shooting JFK, himself, and Lee Harvey Oswald...
I know it's confusing.
Cheers,
R. Clark Matthews
--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Book: Cry of The Phoenix - Whut to do?
Message-ID: <111655.29A6B5C7@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 22 Feb 92 17:14:00 GMT
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In a message to All <11 Feb 92 19:01> Don Allen wrote:
DA> I make no claims of the material and as such it is presented to you
DA> to do with as you see fit.
Hi Don. This Hatonn stuff you posted is electronic.
I'm not complaining, but I have to print it out before I can put it in my birdcage. I have found this to be time-consuming, but well worth the effort.
Thank you for sharing that with us! :-)
Best,
Clark
PS -- After studying W.M. Cooper's claims re: the Kennedy's driver, I have come to a startling conclusion: COOPER killed JFK! U heard it here first.
--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Do Not Accept Cthulhu Cheques!
Message-ID: <111656.29A6B5C9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 22 Feb 92 17:27:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
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Lines: 19
In a message to All <11 Feb 92 19:02> johwessb@kontu.cc.utu.fi wrote:
jo> I told him latest news from this dimension and prepared some coffee.
jo> Then he gave me a pouch containing some Cthulhumoney. After this
jo> my bed got a brand new place and Cthulhu got his dimensional link
jo> to work again.
Hello, Johan!
Congratulations on your Cthulhumoney! But be warned: Do not accept Cthulhucheques!
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Grey Aliens Sighted .... Again
Message-ID: <111658.29A6B5CD@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 22 Feb 92 18:01:00 GMT
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In a message to Jerry Michael Grimm <12 Feb 92 09:11> Michael Corbin wrote:
MC> The bottom line is that Bill Cooper just doesn't
MC> hold water,
Hi Mike. Sounds like Mr. Cooper has prostate trouble to me. Combined with his Dementia Praecox, it's a terrible tragedy.
Of course, he's had a full life and he got away with killing JFK, so he can't complain.
MC> so anything he says should be taken with a large
MC> block of salt and tongue planted firmly in cheek.
Or alternatively, anything he says is a large block of something else.
Cheerio,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!apple!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <mvhh0-ppayner@netcom.com>
Date: 23 Feb 92 04:02:43 GMT
References: <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com> <1992Feb22.022929.29031@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 626
In article <1992Feb22.022929.29031@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>In article <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...
>>
>>>In article <=fdhm8=payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...
>>>>In article <1992Feb19.145046.12281@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>>>>In article <66960@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes...
>>>>>>In article <1992Feb13.212518.248@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>>>>>>In article <1992Feb13.193659.22726sheaffer@netcom.COM>, sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes...
>>
>>>>>Absolutely, and there is a large percentage of unknowns remaining.
>>>>
>>>>Curiously, when many people _say_ UFO, they mean _alien spacecraft_.
>>>>So what they are talking about is not an unknown deserving of study,
>>>>but those darn aliens.
>>
>>>Ah, but who cares? If you read my previous posts, you won't find _me_
>>>attributing UFO's to "alien spacecraft". I've been arguing about the
>>>phenomenon. Once again, someone else (you, this time) is forcing the
>>>"alien" issue.
>>
>>>Why?
>>
>>I'm not forcing this or any other issue. This -->is<-- alt.alien.visitors,
>>and if you have followed the other threads, you will know about the planet
>>ummo, the greys, several conspiracies, etc... And they do belong here.
>>How is it that you can act as they are not part of the phenomena? Any
>>study which ignores part of the data cannot be considered unbiased.
>
>First, I realize this is alt.alien.visitors. However, the original thread
>started with someone (Don Allen I think) posting some statistics concerning
>the percentage of astronomers that thought the UFO phenomenon should
>receive further scientific study. There was _no_, 0, nadda mention of
>"aliens" in that post.
>
>The fact that Don posted here may _imply_ that aliens should be attributed,
>but the content of the post shows otherwise.
It's not that it was or was not mentioned before. I brought it up because
is is an aspect of the phenomena. Are you advocating study of the phenomena,
selected parts of the phenomena, or something else that I am missing
completely?
>Granted, maybe we should take this to sci.skeptic, and if you desire this,
>I'll start adding it to the newsgroups: line, but I suspect that if we
>do, those folks will tell us that it belongs in alt.alien.visitors, since
>the armchair skeptic is the one that _usually_ makes the attribution when
>the debate becomes difficult for them to handle.
I see no real point in moving. As you say, it belongs here as much as there.
>>>>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth
>>>>>>>about this phenomenon need apply.
>>>>
>>>>Need there be a single TRVTH? Or even just one phenomenon? I thought
>>>>we were dealing with an unknown? Hopefully I have guessed correctly
>>>>who originally said this.
>>
>>>Absolutely. Show me where I have insisted that there is _one_ truth to
>>>be found here.
>>
>>I see above ">>>>>Only those who are interested in establishing the truth".
>>And I checked, these were your words. Are you saying the "the truth"
>>is non-singular?
>
>No, _you_ implied this.
This seems to be dodging the issue. I quoted your words, and you respond that
it was only what I had implied. And this issue seems irrelevant anyway. Hows
about either you just clairiy whatever it is you mean, or we drop this?
>>
>>>>>My statement about "truth" stands.
>>
>>>>
>>>>I tend to think that there is no truth, just different points of
>>>>view.
>>
>>>No offense, but doesn't this statement strike you as rather "unscientific"?
>>
>>Scientific investigation is good for exploring objective reality. But
>>"truth" is not an objective reality. I would say that any study
>>go find some objective "truth" would absolutely not be a scientific
>>investigation.
>
>Ok. You have your own definition of "truth". That's fine, as long as we
>both know this.
>
>My definition of "truth" is a simple one. A "fact" is a "truth". Something
>that is a part of objective reality is a "truth".
>
>Let's stop playing with words and address the issue, ok?
As above, lets do. But I would like to point out that one can tell the exact
truth, and be 100% wrong. But I would prefer that we refer to "scientific
truths" as established facts or something similiar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Simple question: You want repeatability. Show me how you can, in a
>>>>>laboratory environment, _predict_ exactly which atom will divide in
>>>>>a nuclear fission reaction. Show me a real, honest to goodness
>>>>>black hole.
>>>>
>>>>This seems to be a straw-man argument. The truth or falsity of the
>>>>above has no bearing upon the value of studying the "UFO phenomenon".
>>>>Nevertheless, fission, while not predictable, is quite repeatable,
>>>>and the rate can be measured. Now if only UFO observations were as
>>>>repeatable, this thread would never have existed. And there is
>>>>a pretty good theoretical basis behind black holes. What theory
>>>>perdicts UFO`s?
>>
>>>>What theory predicts that atom 1E37 will divide? Look, the point I'm
>>>>trying to make is that we keep hearing that the UFO phenomenon is not
>>>>repeatable in a laboratory. Of course it isn't. But neither are other
>>>>things which we _accept_ in science as valid. I have yet to see the
>>>>difference.
>>
>>>Most importantly, much of science does NOT begin in the laboratory in
>>>a repeatable setting. It begins with _something_ that raises questions.
True.
>>>If that "something" has raised a question, then the next step is to
>>>decide whether we can _try_ to answer it. That is where the current
>>>state of the study of the UFO phenomenon rests. It has never gone
>>>beyond this.
>>
>>>For one to cry that there is no "repeatable" evidence of the phenomenon
>>>is to deny the birth of other scientific advances. Many of those did
>>>not start in a laboratory. They started with _observation_, something
>>>that should be a holy word to science.
>>
>>The key here is that repeatable phenomena _can_ be investigated. If
>>we had only reports of uranium atome splitting, and from at best
>>questionable sources, would we be talking about fission today?
>
>And are all (in fact most) _sources_ of sighting reports "questionable"?
How many UFO photo's have turned up being faked? It was once a quick was to
get publicity. This is a fact easily established by a trip to the library.
Do you say this is not true?
>What are you implying?
Nothing, I'll say it clearly. There has been much fakery, fraud, lying,
deliberatly falsified evidence, and involvement by para-normal/newage
<beyond> science persons in the UFO phenomena. Even without the governments
involvement, this would make a UFO study a questional endeavor for anyone
seeking a career in science.
BTW, those who have read the Conden<sp?> report claim that the text of the
study is at odds with the conclusion, which is what most people read. One
of these days I hope to find time to read this.
>>>Fission, as a phenomenon, is deliberately repeatable. I agree.
>>
>>>However, there was a time when it was _not_. It was only a "theory".
>>
>>As I recall, atoms at the time were considered unsplitable. Theory
>>denied that atome could split. Only after it was undisputably
>>observed was the phenomenon given proper study, and the nuclear
>>sciences were born.
>
>Again, I think we need to agree on a definition of "undisputably
>observed". You seem to keep avoiding my insistance that I have been
>talking about the ufo _phenomenon_. Not a singular report of a strange
>object seen in the sky by Bayou Bill.
My point is that a phenonema cannot be observed, only events. In this
case the events that make up the phenomena have proved difficult to
observe. Any study of the phenomena would seem to _require_ better
observations as a bare minimum. Or perhaps the 'men in black' will
prevent any such observations?? :^) Are they not part of the phenomena
as well?
>I think UFO's have been "undisputably observed". If not, tell me why
Agreed, but the key here is the U --> unidentified.
>you disagree and what would change your mind. Remember that I am
>referring to what I consider the undeniable existance of the _phenomenon_,
>NOT a particular object.
Are you referring to the UFO's, or to the observations of UFO's as the
phenomena, or both?
>>>How did we achieve repeatability? By studying the processes that we
>>>thought should lead to it. Call it a bit of forensic science if you
>>>will. In any case, we _believed_ (for the most part) that we should
>>>be able to actually split something we could not see and still haven't.
>>
>>Did we achieve repeatability? Is this not intrinsic to either
>>the phenomenon or to our methods of observation?
>
>Yes. At the macro level, that is true.
>
>Suppose you really wanted to study the ufo phenomenon. How would _you_
>propose achieving repeatability of a phenomenon that exists but is
>"transient" in nature?
I have no good ideas on how to study the phenomena. The obvious approach
would be to record all sitings, and look at an area showing the highest
frequency of observations. This may or may not bear fruit.
>>>At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth, I'll go one step further and
>>>say that fission is NOT repeatable and NOT predictable for any particular
>>>single atom. There is a probability that atom #1E37 _may_ divide.
>>
>>This is solidly accepted as scientific fact. But still the rate of
>>decay can easily be measured, and hence we have half-lives. What is
>>the half-life of a phenomenon? Or a UFO? And how would you measure
>>this?
>
>Does it matter? What is the "half-life" of the violent crime phenomenon?
>
>What is the "half-life" of the ball-lightning phenomenon?
>
>What is the "half-life" of the earthquake "phenomenon"?
>
>How would you measure these?
The point was that we have a measure, in this case half-life. It is appropriate
for radioactive decay, and a few other models as far as I know, and none of
them are mentioned in your list. A better question would seem to be, by what
metric do we measure the phenomena, or aspects of the phenomena. If you cannot
answer this, the best you can do would be to mindlessly gather all data
possible in the hopes of distilling some key relationships. When I first got
Appleworks in 1985(?) my first project was to enter all the data from the
bermuda triangle books to see what I could find. The one clear relationship
was that the highest number of reported missing ships were in December and
June (if I remember correctly). Winter storms and summer tropical storms and
squalls would explain almost everything. There was a low noise level for the
rest of the months. And if you have two hypothesis that explain an observation
equally well, the rule is that the simplest is preferred.
>The point I'm making is that not all "phenomena" are predictable,
>reproducible on demand, and directly measurable. Some of these are
>readily accepted by science as valid, even though science can't
>really practice what it preaches when faced with them.
And in all these there is some key metric that characterizes the phenomena.
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In like manner, I and others claim that the UFO _phenomenon_ is real.
>>>
>>
>>>>No argument, but where do we go from here? This alone is not
>>>>sufficient.
>>
>>>You and I agree on this. The answer seems obvious to me. You don't
>>>argue that the _phenomenon_ is real (as I stated above). So, if this
>>>"alone is not sufficient", we do what science dictates that we do.
>>
>>I guess that I was unclear. I agree that the phenomena exists.
>>That was what was meant by "No argument."
>>
>>>We study it further.
>>
>>It does not neccesarily follow that the existance of a phenomena
>>makes it worthwhile to study. It may or may not be. But there are
>>an infinite number of things to study (OK, a very large number),
>>and neither you nor I nor anyone has time or resources to study
>>them all. So we go with out strengths.
>
>I agree. So, if one chooses to "study" the phenomenon _scientifically_,
>why the stigma on those who actually attempt this?
See above, but this is still something that must be dealt with.
>Who decides what is "worthy"? The government? You? Me? The rest of
>"science"?
>
>If we are asking for money to study, then it makes sense that the
>moneygiver makes the decision (either directly or indirectly).
>
>But that says absolutely nothing about how "worthy" something is of
>scientific study. It is, in a sense, a straw man.
I would say that the word "worthy" requires a value judgement. So
there would seem to be no absolute worthyness. Just many personal value
judgements.
>If we are arguing the merits of studying one phenomenon over another,
>based on available funding, then we are discussing...well...the topic
>of funding.
If a serius study is to be done, it will have to be funded somehow.
>However, that was not and is not why this thread on astronomers and
>ufos began.
Threads drift, and this is neither right or wrong. But to ignore what
others say while complaining that others are not responding to what
you said (and this happens all too often) is not the basis of a
reasonable discussion. I was generalizing here, please do not read the
"you" above as referring to yourself. But specifically, you have done
some of this.
>>
>>>>
>>>>>Evidence for the _phenomenon_ exists. Evidence for a particular "UFO"
>>>>>(whatever that may be) does not.
>>>>
>>>>A flying saucer might be studied. How does one study a phenomenon?
>>
>>>Ask a psychologist.
>>
>>Then who are we discussion UFO's as a subject for scientific
>>investigation?
>
>Can you ask this again? I don't understand the above (it's garbled).
>
>Sorry.
Is the UFO phenomena a phenomena requiring scientific study, or psychological
study?
>>>>
>>>>>Now, let me rephrase the above....
>>>>>
>>>>>"Evidence for the phenomenon of nuclear fission exists. Evidence that
>>>>>atom #1E37 is going to split does not.
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you see my point?
>>>>
>>>>I see your point. But things with boring repeatability have never
>>>>been that difficult to study.
>>
>>>I would venture to say that the reporting of UFO sightings occurs quite
>>>often worldwide. Can we demand that a UFO appear? No. Therefore, it is
>>>not repeatable on demand. So what? That doesn't change the fact that
>>>thousands of reports occur annually.
>>
>>So what? Let's not confuse "repeatable on demand" with completely
>>random in place and time. If only the place were repeatable, then
>>one might set up some sort of automated equipment to look for
>>EM bursts, changes in the magnetic field, etc... But it is difficult
>>to monitor the entire world at all times.
>
>Well, we do that with meteorologically satellites all the time :-).
>We do it with geological instruments all the time.
Then why is there no evidence for the phenomena from these sources?
This is data.
>In certain "flaps" of sightings, it is done. But, it is _still_ not
>seriously considered or studied by mainstream science.
>
>The opportunity has shown itself numerous times, but...no bites.
>
>And, when someone within the Ufology community (and I refer to the
>serious investigators, not the channeling space brother folks),
>that too is conveniently ignored because armchair sceptics have already
>made up their minds.
What have the serious investigators done? What has been ignored?
>There is a wealth of data gathered via investigation by serious
>investigators, that is just _waiting_ to be chewed upon (and perhaps
>spit out) by mainstream science, but it doesn't even bite.
And where is this data kept? Statistical investigation could be done
by anyone with a background easily attained at city college at night.
And the number crunching is easily done by a PC with a stat package.
It does not require a multimillion-dollar investigation if there is
good data already available. If they have useful data and cannot figure
out what to do with it, "serious inverstgator" seems a bit strong to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>Justifiability is a purely subjective thing in the sciences (usually).
>>>>>It's a straw man. If you're fighting for money, it matters. If you're
>>>>>in pursuit of _answers_ to unanswered questions, it's meaningless.
>>>>
>>>>I think that the requirements to eat and pay the rent might
>>>>just possibly make it into the objective category. Unless you
>>>>make a living doing something else, and study the phenomenon on
>>>>your own.
>>
>>>No. That makes it especially subjective.
>>
>>I would say that requirements for food, shelter, and clothing are
>>objective. To each their own I guess.
>>
>
>In a collective sense, I could stretch the word "objective" to make it
>fit.
>
>In any case, these are givens. The "worthiness" of getting answers to
>unanswered questions is still purely subjective.
Agreed, and this is a problem, not an asset.
>>>>>Such as? You imply that there is no scientific method in the study of
>>>>>the UFO phenomenon. That is blatantly false. Would you care to provide
>>>>>evidence of this?
>>>>
>>>>It is not possible to _prove_ that a thing does not exist.
>>>>Rather, the problem here is defining just what the phenomenon
>>>>is. Right now all we have is the 'phenomenon' label, and claims
>>>>of alien spacecraft. Would you care to try to get funding
>>>>based upon this?
>>
>>>I'm not asking for that. I simply meant that if you _are_ implying that
>>>those who _do_ seriously study the subject (few as they may be) are not
>>>doing so in a scientific manner, then you evidently have evidence of some
>>>sort to lead you to make such an assertion.
>>
>>Did I say that ">those who _do_ seriously study the subject" do so
>>unscientifically? I don't see it in rereading. And therefore I do
>>not seem to have made any assertions. You, above, do say that
>>there is valid scientific investigation going on. Would you be so
>>kind as to elucidate?
>
>Hmmm. I should point out that _you_ used the word "valid" above.
I did, it would save much time if we would get to the point rather that
bickering about who said what. Are the investigation you refer to valid
(in a scientific sense) or not?
>The most obvious investigation that comes to mind is that of
>Trans en Province. That was an actual _trace_ case. Sorry, but there
>were not pieces of unidentified craft. There _was_ true scientific
>analysis of soil and botanic traces, but three different laboratories.
>
>If you really want the poop, I'll get the references next week since
>they're at work.
Not right now, midterms you know (or do now). Perhaps you could mail them
and I could get to them when time allows.
>In a nutshell, an unusual object was observed to have hit or skimmed
>the ground, only to take off again shortly after.
>
>The traces left were unexplainable characteristic changes to the soil
>in the immediate vicinity of the object, and unusual changes to surrounding
>plantlife.
>
>Soil samples were submitted to 3 (if I recall) laboratories, went through
>various tests, and all three reports were in agreement.
What did they agree on?
>>
>>>As for defining the phenomenon...well...I don't see that as a problem.
>>
>>Once again, we have a label : UFO. This is just a bit short of
>>defining the phenomenon for my taste. Would you care to spell out
>>what you mean by the "phenomenon" for me?
>
>Apparently we both misunderstand each other.
>
>When talking about the UFO phenomenon, I see two distinct categories
>ripe for study.
>
>a.) A particular sighting, case, whatever you wish to consider. This
> is the most difficult (IMO) to study, since it is by definition
> a transient phenomenon.
>
>b.) The phenomenon. Even this may be subdivided into categories, such
> as the abduction phenomenon, which is slowly but surely beginning
> to be studied by real scientists and some respected scientists in the
> field of psychology.
>
> In any case, when I refer to the study of the _phenomenon_, I am
> referring to the fact that _something_ is going on. It simply
> hasn't been explained.
Better, but "something unexplained" is very vague. Guarenteed to generate
misunderstandings. Perhaps it would help to summarize the aspects of the
phenomena. This would clairfy what is being discussed and what is not.
>>>The phenomenon _is_. If one weighs most if not all of the anecdotal and
>>>physical trace evidence, it's clear that there is no single _cause_ of
>>>the phenomenon. In fact, the phenomenon may be divided into categories.
>>
>>>And yes, I _did_ say "physical trace evidence".
>>
>>>I'll be happy to explain if you wish, but let's assume that I'm right.
>>
>>>What's the difference between this "trace" evidence and say, trace evidence
>>>that the element Lead was once unstable? We can't repeat that can we?
>>
>>I still do not think that atomic decay is a proper parallel to the
>>UFO phenomenon.
>
>I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
Then perhaps it would be best to choose another parallel, or an analogy
that can be agreed upon. Even better, drop them all and deal with the
topic itself.
>While atomic decay is repeatable and predictable on the macro scale,
>you cannot make a particular atom split.
>
>The UFO phenomenon exists. It is not repeatable _on demand_. It is
>repeatable in the sense that it continues. It is not predictable
>on a macro scale, but is somewhat predictable on the "regional" scale
>(ie flaps usually occur over an extended period in a particular area).
>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The possibility for _science_ has existed for some time. Unfortunately,
>>>>>it has never been seriously pursued by the mainstream, primarily because
>>>>>of the false and unfortunate _stigma_ attached to the subject. What I
>>>>>find ironic is that many scientists who find any suggestion that the
>>>>>_phenomenon_ should be studied laughable have no problem with current
>>>>>SETI research. That is absurd.
>>>>
>>>>While I think the chances of SETI working are so slim as to
>>>>make it a wasted effort, how does one compare SETI to a conspiricy
>>>>theory, and find an absurdity.
>>
>>>"Conspiracy"? What are you talking about? Did I miss something?
>>
>>Keep reading alt.aliens.visitors, if you have not seem any conspiracy
>>theories, you will. Many posts are cross-posted to alt.conspiracy.
>
>But that's my point. What does any conspiracies have to do with this
>discussion? I haven't implied any, have I?
I think that they are _part_ of the phenomena.
>>>>Also you claim we have a UFO
>>>>'phenomenon', not alien intelligence, how do you reconcile that
>>>>with the clear implication that UFO are extraterrestial
>>>>intelligences above?
>>
>>>No, no, NO! I am not equating the two. I'm pointing out that "science"
>>>is perfectly happy to look for something it has 0 evidence for (unless you
>>
>>But they are lookin for something they can detect using well known
>>tools and techniques. And in places where they might expect to find
>>life.
>
>You mean like eyes to look at instruments? Minds to form hypothesis?
>
>The truth is, in SETI, they really don't _know_ what to look for. They
>_assume_ that communication is most likely to occur at certain "magic"
>frequencies.
>
>They are looking for something they can detect, as you said. But
>_why_ are they looking _where_ they're looking?
>
>Look, it is very common for people to attribute UFO's to ETI.
>
>There really is no evidence to support that assumption.
>
>However, don't you find it ironic that we would be spending millions
>looking for something light years away that we have yet to sense,
>let alone have any evidence for, and yet, right here at home we have
>thousands of reports of unidentified objects annually, which most
>people naturally (but perhaps mistakenly) attribute to little green
>men, and yet, we don't pay attention?
Not necessarily, I find it hard to believe that they will not make many
useful observations, and that there will not be some benefit. I just doubt
that they will find what they are looking for.
>We search for ETI elsewhere with little probability of success, yet
>ignore the possibility of better success right here at home.
Again, you equate UFO with ETI. This time directly. And yet you take
me to task for bring up aliens? This confuses me a great deal.
>>
>>>consider the fact that _we_ exist the evidence). Yet, when we have
>>>thousands of people worldwide making extraordinary claims, many with
>>>physical traces, instrumental observations, etc., we laugh it off as
>>>nothing.
>>
>>I'll admit, after much study, I still do not know what to make of the
>>phenomenon. But cleary there is much fraud and fakery. And many of
>>the observations are natural phenomenon under unusual circumstances.
>>And many extrordinary claims are made. Why does the onus of proof
>>rest upon the scientific community?
>
>Who said it does? Not me. I didn't mean to imply that. All I will
>assert is that the onus of further serious study rests with those
>most qualified to do so. That is known as responsibility.
I do not see that this follows at all. The onus of proof lies upon those
making the claims requiring proof. Regardless if there are those better
qualified or not, that is a non-sequitor.
>If proof comes from that, fine.
>
>That is why I made an earlier remark about forensic science. It _is_
>a science, you know. It's sole purpose is to _study_ any available
>evidence (usually in the form of traces), and come to some sort of
>conclusion.
Forensic science deals with evidence, not observations. It will be useful
only if there is some physical trace left behind. This is rarely the
case as I understand it. But I think that assumptions build into the
firensic sciences (like humans are involved using known materials and
equipment) might render forensics less usable than you might think.
If all they could do was say "event X happened, we do not know how it
was done, and the observations cannot be reproduced by known tools and
techniques", then no useful conclusions would be forthcoming.
>But, if that was never done, a criminal case would have a difficult
>time proceeding.
And perhaps they are already occupied with investigating human crimes.
>In like manner, true, serious investigation into the ufo phenomenon is
>a precursor to doing any real "science" (IMO). That isn't happening
>in mainstream science except perhaps in the field of psychology.
>
>>
>>Rich again
>>
>>payner@netcom.com
>
>Jim Graham - ditto
>
> -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
> Neither do they speak for me.
> ______________________________________________________________________
>| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
>| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
>| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
>| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
>|______________________________________________________________________|
Rich again, again!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscdc!hplabs!hpfcso!jle
From: jle@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jer/ Eberhard)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: .. .
Message-ID: <20550041@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>
Date: 23 Feb 92 01:59:26 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.215536.75751@cs.cmu.edu>
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Lines: 9
> > >... .. .. . /.. . ... . ... .
S I I E I E S E S E
SO, it didn't really mean anything.
Jer/ Eberhard, (SLASH), HAM = N0FZD | Hewlett-Packard - MS99, 1UP10,15'East
Pilot: COMM, INST, CFI-Airplane & Glider| 3404 East Harmony Road (303) 229-2861
CAP CFI, Check & Mission, Pikes Peak 218| Fort Collins, Colorado 80525-9599
EMAIL: jle@fc.hp.com or Jer_Eberhard@fc.hp.com
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!orion.oac.uci.edu!cerritos.edu!wilbur!conexch!stanton!bruce
From: bruce@stanton.UUCP (Gordon Bruce)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Keywords: mars pyramids
Message-ID: <46481@stanton.UUCP>
Date: 22 Feb 92 00:12:38 GMT
References: <1992Feb16.034058.7328@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <2FB0FB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> <1992Feb17.212745.14815@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Stanton Public Domain Systems, Stanton, Ca.
Lines: 76
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4623 sci.space:26937 sci.skeptic:20922 alt.paranormal:4467
In article <1992Feb17.212745.14815@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Scott D. Young) writes:
>
> >jflint@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint) writes:
>
> >Indeed the 'face' resembles a human face in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS, unlike
> >the facelike examples used to compare it with, most only resembling facees
> >or other objects in outlins.
>
> Where do you get this from? There are (I believe) 2, count'em, 2 shots of
> this feature. Both have the same sun angle and thus the same shadows. No
> oblique-angle shots or shots with other sun-angles exist. Thus your
> statement is ridiculous. The face looks like a face when the sun shines at
> one particular angle and when viewed from a certain angle. That is all we
> "know" to date. It may be that the feature resembles a face at other angles,
> or not. We will not "know" until more data is available.
>
>
> Scott Young
> youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Scott,
Your information is incorrect.
The two shots of the Face on Mars were taken at two different angles of the
spacecraft with respect to he feature. The photographs were also taken at
two different times in the Martian day and with a two week interval between
the two pictures. The shadows and angles in the two photos are not the same
and do indeed provide sufficient data to construct a three dimensional image.
I have read Hoagland's book. I also obtained copies of the pictures of the
feature. The feature is there. Does this mean that there was, at sometime
in the past, a civilization on Mars? No.
Does it mean that the feature should be ignored and forgotten? I believe
that the answer is also No. Because we encounter something that is not
expected does not mean it is a hoax or someone's over-active immagination.
Because some individuals are ready to state that the feature is an artifact
does not make it an artifact. Conversely, because some individuals are ready
to state that the feature is a natural formation does not make it a natural
formation.
A true skeptic will look at the available information and based on the
evidence reach some sort of a conclusion. The photos indicate something
that is unusual and (to me) interesting. Are the features artifacts
left by some long gone civilization? I don't know. There is not enough
information available to prove this. Are the features a natural formation?
I don't know. There is not enough evidence to prove this either.
My conclusion is that there is photographic evidence of some unusual features
on the surface of Mars. There is not enough evidence to determine what the
features are.
Most of us who are interested in the Face on Mars are not claiming that it is
an artifact. We are only saying that it (and the other near by features)
deserve a closer look. It was suggested that the next Mars probe be timed to
pass over the area in question and take some closer photos. It is my
understanding that NASA officials have agreed to do this.
Gordon
--
===============================================================================
| Gordon Bruce; DataComm Consultant | The opinions expressed here are mine |
| bruce@stanton.cts.com | and are not necessarily the opinions |
| stanton!bruce | of my clients or employers. |
===============================================================================
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!brmd1
From: kevin@taronga.taronga.com (Kevin Brown)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.044050.943@menudo.uh.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 92 04:40:50 GMT
References: <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu> <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>
Sender: kevin@taronga.taronga.com
Reply-To: kevin@taronga.taronga.com (Kevin Brown)
Organization: Minimal.
Lines: 90
Xref: ns-mx sci.space:26941 alt.paranormal:4468 alt.alien.visitors:4624 sci.skeptic:20929
In article <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> Frank T Lofaro <fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>From alt.paranormal (USENET): 20-Feb-92 Re: Dreamland Gerry
>Roston@cs.cmu.edu (919)
>
>>Jon
>>If I were to say that people with acne were actuallt Martians in
>>disguise, would you say:
>>a) He's full of shit.
>>b) I can not form an opinion, but the burden of proof is on him.
>
>>Although what you said about skepticism being a two edged sword is
>>correct, there are certain ideas that can be quickly flushed without
>>resorting to experimentation, etc.
>
>>Like pyschotics being ingabited by demon.
>
>>Or people with acne being Martians.
>
> That is a somewhat hollow argument. You are comparing the statement
>being tested to something that is obviously ridiculous and then using
>that as the basis for attacking the original statement.
And what, exactly, makes one statement "obviously ridiculous" and the other
not?
>While it would
>be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by
>demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many
>of them are.
Wrong. Look, if you can say "Some psychotics are the way they are because
they are possessed by demons" then I can say that "Some people are nice
because they're possessed by Santa Claus". Both statements are of the
same form, and both are equally ridiculous.
The reason, of course, is simple: neither Santa Claus nor demons have any
significant positive physical evidence supporting their existence.
>If someone gets possessed by a demon (which I *do* believe
>happens, though not very often)
And why do you believe that this happens at all? What physical evidence
to you have in support of the existence of demons? None?
Then why don't you believe in Santa Claus as well?
>they will appear to unenlightened
>science to be mentally ill.
"Unenlightened science", eh?
You want to know how far your boogieman beliefs have gotten mankind? Take
a look at the Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials. Then try to come
up with some *positive* contribution such beliefs have made (that cannot
as easily be attributed to something else). Bet you can't.
I, on the other hand, can come up with *lots* of goodies that are the
result of "unenlightened science". The computer I'm typing this on,
for example. My car, for example. Air conditioning. Television.
Radio. Lasers (which get you things like compact discs). VCRs.
Photography of all forms, from black and white still pictures to
full-color, 70mm Dolby Surround theater films. Aircraft. And on and
on and on. Shall I continue?
>Modern science does not comprehend, nor is
>it intended to explain, phenomina that deal with non-physical entities,
>such as demons.
Well, gee, if the phenomenon is not something that science can deal with,
then the phenomenon has no physical manifestation. In other words, if
you can see it, then science can deal with it.
>Scientists do not understand the soul, spirits, and
>demons and how they affect what appears to them to be the "real" world.
Not surprising, since the things you mention have no discernable physical
effects. Physical effects like the wild-eyed stare of the psychopath.
> There is *much* more to the world, than just the physical plane.
Yeah? Go ahead. Prove it.
>Frank Lofaro
>Carnegie Mellon University
>fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (128.2.11.131)
>FLofaro+@cmu.edu (128.2.35.186)
Kevin Brown (kevin@taronga.taronga.com)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!cbfsb!cbnewsc!chapin
From: chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin )
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.050239.6239@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>
Date: 24 Feb 92 05:02:39 GMT
References: <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com>
Organization: Hickory Ridge - Lisle, IL
Lines: 16
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20931 sci.space:26944 alt.paranormal:4470 alt.alien.visitors:4625
Robert Sheaffer writes:
>The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on whoever makes extraordinary claims.
And just who gets to define what is ordinary and what is extraordinary?
Right. If it agrees with the worldview of my group, it's ordinary.
And if not, that makes it extraordinary. Can you say, "circular
argument"?
If it's unacceptable for a Christian to claim that the Bible is true
because it agrees with his worldview and all his group agrees, then
it ain't acceptable for "skeptics" to try to pull the same trick.
--
tom chapin tjc@hrccb.att.com
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucselx!petunia!zeus!jgreen
From: jgreen@zeus.calpoly.edu (James T. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.051417.149485@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 92 05:14:17 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4626 sci.space:26946 sci.skeptic:20932 alt.paranormal:4471
Once the Mars Observer gets to Mars, it should take a series of
photos of the "face" from several angles and sun angles
so we can settle once and for all if it really is a boring
rock...or an interesting one.
Whatever it looks like, I'd say the Mars face is as natural as
the "Man" in the moon.
/~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@eros.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\
| |
| Slogans of two generations: 1972: Question Authority! |
| 1992: Why Ask Why? |
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!blaze.cs.jhu.edu!biffvm!callahan
From: callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.052138.6517@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 92 05:21:38 GMT
References: <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Feb24.050239.6239@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>
Sender: news@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Usenet news system)
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20934 sci.space:26947 alt.paranormal:4473 alt.alien.visitors:4627
chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin ) writes:
>And just who gets to define what is ordinary and what is extraordinary?
I do. But it's more fun to leave everyone else guessing.
By the way, people with acne really are Martians.
--
Paul Callahan
callahan@BIFFVM.cs.jhu.edu
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews
From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Gateway Test
Message-ID: <111909.29A8D6C9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 24 Feb 92 01:47:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ
Lines: 13
Hi everybody. Could a few of you respond to this test?
I'm wondering if my gateway is actually letting anything out of here...
Thanks,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!blaze.cs.jhu.edu!gauss!wilson
From: wilson@gauss.cs.jhu.edu (Dwight Wilson)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.070247.7936@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 92 07:02:47 GMT
References: <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Feb24.050239.6239@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> <1992Feb24.052138.6517@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
Sender: news@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Usenet news system)
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University CS Department
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20939 sci.space:26954 alt.paranormal:4475 alt.alien.visitors:4629
In article <1992Feb24.052138.6517@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan) writes:
>chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin ) writes:
>
>>And just who gets to define what is ordinary and what is extraordinary?
>
>I do. But it's more fun to leave everyone else guessing.
>
>By the way, people with acne really are Martians.
>
And we want your women.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440
From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Another Elvis Sighting
Message-ID: <1992Feb23.201056.29042@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
Date: 23 Feb 92 20:10:56 GMT
Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu
Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu
While working routine police patrol we had a call of a large fat man with
side-burns trying to steal big and fat clothes from a local store while
eating a pizza in one hand and running out of the store with garments in
the other hand.
The description was as follows:
Rather large, fat man, with greying side-burns and white sequined body suit
singing "Jailhouse Rock" as he fled the store. As he made his way through
the exit, an eye witness heard and saw him turn to a store clerk and say,
"Thank you very much" - in Elvis lingo.
The clerk quickly identified this person as an aging Elvis who could still
rattle off a good rendition of the above listed song.
Police did a perimeter containment procedure but fat Elvis fled through the
defenses.
After careful examination, the police have learned that Elvis had been
working and hanging out at a local burger joint as a senior citizen trying
to attain the rank of burger manager.
More Elvis info to follow as soon as the report, fingerprints, and in-store
camera footage are developed and processed.
I think we got him this time boys!!!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440
From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Under law, can you indict an alien for rape?
Message-ID: <1992Feb23.201804.29490@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
Date: 23 Feb 92 20:18:04 GMT
Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu
Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 13
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu
Let's just say that you are out minding your own business listing to
Led Zeppelin on the CD player in your car when you see a big blue flash
of light and all systems go dead except what the aliens are interested
in - your peter.
You get out and are floated into a craft when you are assaulted - sexu-
ally by a female from the planet Vulva. She is having her way with you
several times and you now want to file charges. Can you do so under
present law? Is there recourse against illegal and/or alien intercourse?
Will the members of present day women advocacy groups side with aliens?
Will George Bush have to change his last name?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news
From: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <kqh968INNo3r@phad.hsc.usc.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 92 07:54:48 GMT
References: <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu> <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> <1992Feb24.044050.943@menudo.uh.edu>
Sender: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett)
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 15
Xref: ns-mx sci.space:26955 alt.paranormal:4476 alt.alien.visitors:4632 sci.skeptic:20944
NNTP-Posting-Host: phad.hsc.usc.edu
In article <1992Feb24.044050.943@menudo.uh.edu> kevin@taronga.taronga.com (Kevin Brown) writes:
>In article <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> Frank T Lofaro <fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>From alt.paranormal (USENET): 20-Feb-92 Re: Dreamland Gerry
>>Roston@cs.cmu.edu (919)
[ Petty bickering removed ]
Please stop cross-posting your flames to aav... this conversation belongs in sci.skeptic, alt.flames, alt.petty.bickering,
or some other more appropriate place. If I feel like reading your argument, I'll look over there..
--
+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
| dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed,
| Just my opinions! | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! - #6, The Prisoner
+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440
From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Feb23.202232.29862@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
Date: 23 Feb 92 20:22:32 GMT
References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu
Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 55
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu
In a previous article, bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) says:
> Hello from the world of the wierd and strange. This is Gary
>Stollman, back from the Twilight Zone once again to give you an
>idea of what has been going on lately in MY world.
>
> It seems that I have been responsible for bringing Jesus back
>to Earth, and have been through so much in the past month or two
>it would take (practically) a lifetime to tell it all!
>
> What I can tell you is that my family and friends are still
>being exchanged by demons or aliens or whatever. My mom had a
>stroke, and is here now in our apartment in LA, trying to
>recuperate from the paralysis which has left her immobile. The
>two "nurses" treating her are demon clones who have taken the
>place of the real people, and they keep switching my real mom back
>and forth with the fake one, whom they serve. My father is also
>being switched with a fake clone constantly. As have been my two
>sisters and my other relatives and friends. These things are
>demonic in nature, and I have asked God for help, and he has
>answered my pleas!
>
> In the past few weeks, I have been transported by God to the
>parallel dimension, where these beings come from, and back again.
>The end result of this is that I have been responsible for the
>start of the Second Coming of Christ. Jesus is here now, and he
>is going to take care of things in a hurry! I have had the power
>of God at my fingertips, as apparently I was the "Number 9" spoken
>about in the musicians records, like the Beatles. I have been
>able to move through dimensions like through air, and I have
>helped God to stop these things from taking us over. There is
>little more to say now, except tell everyone you know to pray,
>long and hard! It will help.
>
> These things have taken over all the hospitals and so forth
>in LA, and the phone systems around the country. They have a base
>somewhere where they are holding the REAL people they have cloned.
>If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely! It is time to
>stand up and be counted as human beings, not some kind of play-
>things. This is Gary Stollman, signing off from LA, California,
>USA.
>
>
>
>
Gary, you deserve to live in L.A. Your a natural.
Also, if you send me $4995, I'll take care of all of your problems, and
half of the debt that I owe. But, we'll both be happy!!!
Gary, get a life, remember to put a condom on that rectal thermometer
while the nurse ponders why you don't have butt hair!!!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440
From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Isn't it interesting?
Message-ID: <1992Feb23.202409.223@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
Date: 23 Feb 92 20:24:09 GMT
Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu
Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 8
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu
Isn't it interesting that Graceland and Dreamland have two things in
common:
# 1 - Both end in land
# 2 - Both have probably had Elvis over for dinner
Path: ns-mx!uunet!seismo!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Date: 24 Feb 92 14:33:07 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> <1992Feb24.051417.149485@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4635 sci.space:26956 sci.skeptic:20946 alt.paranormal:4479
jgreen@zeus.calpoly.edu (James T. Green) writes:
|>Once the Mars Observer gets to Mars, it should take a series of
|>photos of the "face" from several angles and sun angles
|>so we can settle once and for all if it really is a boring
|>rock...or an interesting one.
|>Whatever it looks like, I'd say the Mars face is as natural as
|>the "Man" in the moon.
what odds would you give?
josh
Path: ns-mx!uunet!boulder!ucsu!horton.Colorado.EDU!tarrall
From: tarrall@horton.Colorado.EDU (The Admiral, actually)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.122104.13055@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Date: 24 Feb 92 12:21:04 GMT
References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com> <1992Feb21.145353.24991@tellab5.tellabs.com>
Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System)
Organization: _USS Christopher Pike_, NCC-1779-A
Lines: 22
Nntp-Posting-Host: horton.colorado.edu
In article <1992Feb21.145353.24991@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) writes:
|In article <1992Feb21.042824.17445@cbnewsd.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
|
|>> If you don't believe me, watch CNN "real" closely! It is time to
|>
|>I watch CNN alot...alot...alot..."`)twassle ummph, and I haven't
|>noticed anything unusual. What is it we should look for?
|
|They screwed up the Lynn Russell clone's hair color. And I mean
|BIGTIME.
Hmm. I wondered what was wrong with Hannah Storm. I figured that
either she'd changed her make-up style or that she's about 2-3 months
pregnant. Silly me.
I guess Bernie's clone injured his wrist in a tussle then?
--
-- The Admiral Email address: tarrall@horton.colorado.edu
---------------------------- ghewmey Daghaj SoH ---------------------------
| What I want to see in the paper: "Rockies sign Puckett and Sandberg" |
| --------------------> HOW ABOUT THOSE TWINS???? <-------------------- |
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part1
Keywords: Review Footage
Message-ID: <286@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 23 Feb 92 21:27:57 GMT
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 58
My first post to a.a.s. I would like to give a short review on
the Video-Photo-Document Package that I bought back in 1987. It came
from Book Brokers in Orlando, Fla. I don't know if there was a review
on this information yet, if so I would like a copy of it.i
FIRST: The Movie Footage
This is what the advertisement said:
Full Color and Sound. SEE and HEAR this amazing video. Unpre-
cedented in content. Shown on television in Japan to millions of people,
as a NEWS SPECIAL. Experience the Japanese film crew's unbridled excitement
as they view and video tape the U.F.O!
SEE and HEAR of the many discoveries that were found during the
super slow motion testing and film analysis! Hear what the experts have to
say about this film.
See dematerialization and rematerialization of the U.F.O. See the
strange light shift that occurs during the tranformation! See a UFO as big
as a HOUSE hovering above a well traveled hightway! Hear the sound of this
UFP as it passes overhead.
People in the Japanese Government call this footage "CONCLUSIVE
PROOF", and "the best photographic evidence to date!" Now, see if for
yourself, with your own eyes. YOU BE THE JUDGE!!
My (Ok, I'll be the JUDGE :-) REVIEW:
The movie footage was on CHEAP T-120 VHS tape, very low quality
so I had to watch the footage thru the `snow' made by the recording.
It was YES YOU GUEST RIGHT a japanese makeover of `Billy Maiers' Beam
Ships that he took on 8mm film. They videotaped Billies film and ran
it thru a slo-mo machine. Also they put it thru video enhanced zooms of
the UFO's. The film crew gave their best shot to debunk the film and
gave it a passing grade. It was done rather well in my opinion, too bad
the tape was such a low quality, the footage would have been much better.
They ruled out trick photography because of the more then 1/120 second
frame speed of the dematerialization and rematerialization. It couldn't
be done so that part was true. They ruled out the saucer on a string by
the way the ships were flying from left to right and back again without
any error in the starting and stopping. Also the camera never moved and
there was always a reference in the camera. One shot was when a beam
ship was flying circles around a big Evergreen Tree to prove it wasn't
a model. The tree moved from the force of the ship back and forth. It
died within 6 to 12 months.
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### ####Amateur Radio Packet: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.PA.USA.NOAM#### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!mccuts!zzassgl
From: zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff Lane)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas
Keywords: Open-minded skepticism
Message-ID: <4451@mccuts.uts.mcc.ac.uk>
Date: 21 Feb 92 13:39:04 GMT
References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu>
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, England.
Lines: 8
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20953 sci.physics:17908 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1047 alt.paranormal:4482 alt.alien.visitors:4638 sci.energy:7858
As someone else has said - If you do manage to come up with a wonderful new
idea you would be trampled in the rush of others claiming that they thought
of it first.
--
Geoff. Lane. Janet: zzassgl@uk.ac.mcc.uts
UTS Sys Admin, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Rd, Manchester, M13 9PL
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!hollie.rdg.dec.com!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <5700@shodha.enet.dec.com>
Date: 24 Feb 92 13:58:35 GMT
Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 14
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4639 sci.space:26964 sci.skeptic:20954 alt.paranormal:4483
In article <1992Feb20.183623.23228@mprgate.mpr.ca>, spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes...
>Take a close look at the face on Mars...
>
>It is a cyberman!
Looks more like... like ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH
TED KENNEDY!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Steve Food_for_the_Grays
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!hollie.rdg.dec.com!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <5701@shodha.enet.dec.com>
Date: 24 Feb 92 14:04:11 GMT
Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 11
In article <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes...
>
> Hello from the world of the wierd and strange. This is Gary
>Stollman, back from the Twilight Zone once again to give you an
>idea of what has been going on lately in MY world.
The FRAUD returnith.
Steve Food_for_the_Grays
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb
From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.151952.23399@tcom.stc.co.uk>
Date: 24 Feb 92 15:19:52 GMT
References: <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu> <1992Feb21.174622.14330@infonode.ingr.com> <schumach.698706566@convex.convex.com>
Sender: news@tcom.stc.co.uk (System Administration)
Reply-To: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)
Organization: STC Telecomms, New Southgate, London, N11 1HB
Lines: 14
Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4484 alt.alien.visitors:4641 sci.skeptic:20955
In article <schumach.698706566@convex.convex.com> schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:
>
>Yes, Newton was a genius, but he was not infallible. Some of his
>views were completely wrong (such as those that led him to write
>tens of thousands of words on alchemy as a science)...
When Newton was criticized by a fellow scientist for his interest in astrology
(or else alchemy - I'm not sure which) his reply was something like as follows:
"I, Sir, have studied the subject. You have not.".
It still holds, Richard.
Pat
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!transfer!lectroid!sw.stratus.com!tarl
From: tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?
Keywords: Open-minded skepticism
Message-ID: <11158@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>
Date: 21 Feb 92 03:29:42 GMT
References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com>
Sender: usenet@lectroid.sw.stratus.com
Followup-To: sci.skeptic
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Lines: 84
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20957 sci.physics:17909 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1048 alt.paranormal:4485 alt.alien.visitors:4642 sci.energy:7860
In article <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
> [ Skepticism about devils ]
> (WARNING: I just can't take it anymore - it's been building for a long time -
> this was the straw that broke the camels back! I got to get on my soapbox and
> get it off my chest.)
>
> The rest of us, including me, should maintain a healthy, not an unhealthy
> skepticism about alternative scientific theories.
> [...healthy vs unhealthy skepticism...]
> And why do I say this? Well, it's pretty obvious from reading many postings
> on Usenet that many (but not all) scientists and engineers are fairly
> intolerant (read: hostile) of ideas and theories that run counter to what
> they were taught and now believe.
There is a reason for this hostility. The random theories presented are
frequently supplied by someone who doesn't know what he is talking about,
and the hostile person will sometimes know more than a little about the
subject being discussed. It can be very frustrating to deal with someone
who claims to be able to invalidate centuries of work with a grandiose idea,
and hasn't bothered to read as much as an elementary text in the subject
being discussed.
Ideas are a dime a dozen. Crackpots produce ideas by the gross tonne.
Science, and indeed, knowledge itself, is not ideas. It is validated
facts and mathematical relationships between cause and effect allowing
accurate predictions to be generated.
Anything less is simply useful for fertilizing petunias. Indistinguishable
from what comes out of the south end of a north-bound steer.
When someone has a fantastic idea about the structure of the universe,
he/she/it should spend some time to determine whether this new idea
violates any of the existing knowledge our society has built up in the
past several centuries. If it does, perhaps what it violates should be
re-examined; but until that happens, the new idea is useless. Note that
re-examined means re-measuring whatever result you don't like; if said
re-examination produces the same result, your idea has already failed.
Presuming the new idea doesn't violate any existing knowledge (this will
probably take several years to determine); Differences between what the
new idea predicts and what the standard model (of whatever you are
replacing) predicts should be determined. These will probably be tiny
effects that will be difficult to observe - otherwise we would have seen
them before. Then you should design and execute an experiment which
tests the realms where the two models differ. This should take you
several more years. At this point, you can publish.
So much for what you should do; This group will never be used in that
context. This group is for people arrogant enough to believe that they
can, without detailed knowledge of a subject, use sheer inspiration to
out-do everyone who came before them, who actually bothered to understand
what they were dealing with. This group is for conspiracy theorists who
believe that studying existing science will "pollute" them and destroy
their inspiration. This group is for people who believe in fairies and
divine inspiration being supreme over observation, math and hard work.
Does that sound hostile? It should.
Now, if you want to discuss new theories, discuss:
a) The solar neutrino problem. There was a recent paper addressing
this that hasn't made it out to the general press yet. What does
it say, and what are it's potential flaws?
b) Supernova mechanics. There are some known problems with the existing
supernova model, which were brought to light by Sanduleak -69.202
c) Developments in merging quantum mechanics with gravity; There have
been attempts, what have they involved, and what are their flaws?
Which changes have recently cropped up?
d) Cosmology; big-bang vs cyclic vs other; What evidence points to
which theories, what flaws do they have. What work has been done
in getting a big-bang to produce a non-isotropic universe?
(my interest in astronomy is showing).
e) High-temeperature superconductivity in doped CuO ceramics. Changes
to the BCS theory to accomodate these superconductors - news about
work to determine if phonons are involved in these superconductors.
If some of the potential changes or new theories are your own, so much the
better. But if you have a theory on supernovas and don't know what the
Chandrasekhar limit is, expect to get hammered.
--
Tarl Neustaedter tarl@sw.stratus.com
Marlboro, Mass. Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Video-Photo-Documents Part3
Keywords: Review Documents
Message-ID: <288@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 23 Feb 92 22:30:44 GMT
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 26
HoHummm! With the package came a bunch of bad photocopies of
declassified documents of all kinds of UFO trivia. Plus a reproduction
of a Photograph, allegely showing a humaniod alien body preserved in a
transparent viewing case, and other information from the UFO CRASH AT
AZTEC.
Etc etc etc....
So... Anybody seen these documents? They look pretty ratty,
if I feel like it I'll weed thru it and see if anything is
worth typing up. I just found this folder of all the UFO
goodies that I had filed away since I got it back in 1987.
So I decided to bring them up on a.a.v. More Fun then Humans
are allowed.....
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### ####Amateur Radio Packet: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.PA.USA.NOAM#### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part2
Keywords: Review Photo
Message-ID: <287@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 23 Feb 92 22:17:39 GMT
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 110
My Review on the Satellite Photograph of a UFO.
First the Advertisement:
A first time ever SATELLITE PHOTOGRAPH OF A U.F.O. with
documented authentication!
This photograph was taken by a weather satellite, making it the
only OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT satellite photo ever released of a U.F.O! People
in the U.S. government call this photograph "IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE THAT
U.F.O's EXIST!!"
See the U.F.O as being V-shaped in the front and rectangular in
the rear, with a port vision, and four contrails. See the U.F.O flying
at 5000 miles per hour, while climbing out of the atmosphere. The Earth
is viewed in the background, documenting its presence!
THIS IS CONCLUSIVE PROOF THAT U.F.O'S EXIST!!
The satellite photo will cone to you, complete with one glossy
size 8"x10" color picture of the U.F.O., and all supporting AUTHENTICATED
DOCUMENTS.
DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARENTEE, IF NOT AS ADVERTISED HEREIN!!
My Review Comment:
SO!!! HAHAHAHA..... Well I did get a glossy 8"x10" picture of
a flying `Baseball HomeBase Plate' :-) There wasn't much color in the
color picture mostly some grayscale `blue-white'. I personnally don't
know what it is and to me it might just might be something so...
here is what the AUTHENTICATED DOCUMENTS say :-).
---------------------------STARTING DOCS-----------------------------
Mid-America Remote sensing Center
Murray State Univ, Murray, KY
Oct 31, 1985
To Whom It May Concern:
The image in question appears to be the output of a satellite
remote sensing device. To the best of my knowledge the information
depicted on the image in question is authentic.
Thomas C. Kind, PhD.
Professor
Dept. of Geosciences
#2
To Whom It May Concern:
On the eveing of Oct 30, 1985, I examined an electronic negative image
which appears to be a genuine, untampered, unretouched image.
Stephen J Robertson
Owner, Robertson's Creative Photography
#3
Southeast Missouri State Univ.
Cape Girardeau, Missouri
Friday, Nov 1, 1985
To Whom It May Concern:
I am Professor of Physics (highest rank) at Southeast Missouri
State Univ. hold tenure, and served as chairman of the department of
physics for nearly twenty years. I have not served as chairman for about
three years.
I have held several offices in state science organizations,
including the office of President of the Missouri Academy of Science and
President of the American Association of Physics Teachers, Missouri Section.
Dr Harley D. Rutledge
(Notice the above person never mentions the Photograph :-)
#4
Southeast Missouri State Univ.
Cape Girardeau, Missouri
Nov 1, 1985
To whom it may concern:
I have examined the imagery of concern to Dr. Rutledge.
The background terrain appears to match a portion of irregular
coastline and associated islands centered approximately 40 kilometers
southwest of Vladivostok, U.S.S.R., in the vicinity of latitude 43deg
N; longitude 331deg E.
?. Ray Knox
Professor of Geology
==============================EOT DOCS===============================
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### ####Amateur Radio Packet: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.PA.USA.NOAM#### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!ncifcrf!fcs260c2!toms
From: toms@fcs260c2.ncifcrf.gov (Tom Schneider)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas
Keywords: Open-minded skepticism
Message-ID: <2807@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>
Date: 24 Feb 92 16:55:22 GMT
References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <1992Feb20.133529.9001@husc3.harvard.edu> <4451@mccuts.uts.mcc.ac.uk>
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Four stages of acceptance: (J.B.S. Haldane, Journal of Genetics #58, 1963)
i) this is worthless nonsense;
ii) this is an interesting, but perverse, point of view;
iii) this is true, but quite unimportant;
iv) I always said so.
I haven't been able to find the original reference, unfortunately. Does
anybody have access to the original journal to locate the exact pages?
Tom Schneider
National Cancer Institute
Laboratory of Mathematical Biology
Frederick, Maryland 21702-1201
toms@ncifcrf.gov
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From: house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?
Keywords: Open-minded skepticism
Message-ID: <house.698888095@helios>
Date: 23 Feb 92 23:34:55 GMT
References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com>
Lines: 19
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20960 sci.physics:17914 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1050 alt.paranormal:4487 alt.alien.visitors:4646 sci.energy:7863
noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>Of course, I demand to be shown substantiating evidence and arguments, and the
>burden of proof is on the presenter; but I will give a *non-hostile*, even a
>friendly, forum to anyone who puts forth theories and conjectures that run
>counter to present-day thinking, no matter how bizarre. Only by fostering
>such an open climate can we maximize the creativity of our scientists and
>scholars, and to advance scientific understanding; a hostile climate to new
>ideas will only stifle many (and fortunately not all) from working on and
>presenting such new conjectures, ideas and theories, and thus stifle scientific
>understanding itself.
I have noticed intolerance to unusual ideas also. I heartily second all
your comments above.
--
Ron House. USQ
(house@helios.usq.edu.au) Toowoomba, Australia.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ieunet!tcdcs!unix1.tcd.ie!malloyd
From: malloyd@unix1.tcd.ie (ZAPHOD BEEBLEBROX II)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Philedelphia Experiment
Summary: pex
Keywords: ph
Message-ID: <malloyd.698928794@unix1.tcd.ie>
Date: 24 Feb 92 10:53:14 GMT
Sender: usenet@cs.tcd.ie (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie)
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Lines: 3
Nntp-Posting-Host: unix1.tcd.ie
I need information about the Philadelphia Experiment for a book that I'm
writing.Please mail me at malloyd.698928794@unix1.tcd.ie
Thanks in advance ..ZBII
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham
From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astronomers & Ufos
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.183358.10478@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 92 19:20:35 GMT
References: <7=gh#f=payner@netcom.com> <1992Feb22.022929.29031@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <mvhh0-ppayner@netcom.com>
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In article <mvhh0-ppayner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...
>In article <1992Feb22.022929.29031@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>Let's stop playing with words and address the issue, ok?
>
>As above, lets do. But I would like to point out that one can tell the exact
>truth, and be 100% wrong. But I would prefer that we refer to "scientific
>truths" as established facts or something similiar.
Of course.
>
>>And are all (in fact most) _sources_ of sighting reports "questionable"?
>
>How many UFO photo's have turned up being faked? It was once a quick was to
>get publicity. This is a fact easily established by a trip to the library.
>Do you say this is not true?
I agree. But, would you really accept photographs as valid scientific
"evidence"? If not, then faked photos are irrelevant.
>>you disagree and what would change your mind. Remember that I am
>>referring to what I consider the undeniable existance of the _phenomenon_,
>>NOT a particular object.
>
>Are you referring to the UFO's, or to the observations of UFO's as the
>phenomena, or both?
Both.
>
>Threads drift, and this is neither right or wrong. But to ignore what
>others say while complaining that others are not responding to what
>you said (and this happens all too often) is not the basis of a
>reasonable discussion. I was generalizing here, please do not read the
>"you" above as referring to yourself. But specifically, you have done
>some of this.
That's only because too often, the discussion becomes tangential and the
original issue is lost in the noise.
>
>>Can you ask this again? I don't understand the above (it's garbled).
>>
>>Sorry.
>
>Is the UFO phenomena a phenomena requiring scientific study, or psychological
>study?
You mean, there's a difference?!!! :-)
>
>
>I did, it would save much time if we would get to the point rather that
>bickering about who said what. Are the investigation you refer to valid
>(in a scientific sense) or not?
Agreed. I think they are "valid".
>
>>Soil samples were submitted to 3 (if I recall) laboratories, went through
>>various tests, and all three reports were in agreement.
>
>What did they agree on?
Oops! I forgot to say. I'll let you know when I get to my references.
>
>>But that's my point. What does any conspiracies have to do with this
>>discussion? I haven't implied any, have I?
>
>I think that they are _part_ of the phenomena.
No. I think they are symptoms, but not an intrinsic part of the phenomena.
>
>>However, don't you find it ironic that we would be spending millions
>>looking for something light years away that we have yet to sense,
>>let alone have any evidence for, and yet, right here at home we have
>>thousands of reports of unidentified objects annually, which most
>>people naturally (but perhaps mistakenly) attribute to little green
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>men, and yet, we don't pay attention?
>
>Not necessarily, I find it hard to believe that they will not make many
>useful observations, and that there will not be some benefit. I just doubt
>that they will find what they are looking for.
>
>>We search for ETI elsewhere with little probability of success, yet
>>ignore the possibility of better success right here at home.
>
>Again, you equate UFO with ETI. This time directly. And yet you take
>me to task for bring up aliens? This confuses me a great deal.
No. I do not make that equation. Read my statement above, again. My
point is that mainstream science makes the equation in order to conveniently
set study of the phenomenon aside. Yet, when faced with the question of
ETI, they will conveniently and without much yelling, carry SETI.
If I appear to have made the equation of UFO=ETI, I didn't intend to.
Still confused?
>
>>Who said it does? Not me. I didn't mean to imply that. All I will
>>assert is that the onus of further serious study rests with those
>>most qualified to do so. That is known as responsibility.
>
>I do not see that this follows at all. The onus of proof lies upon those
>making the claims requiring proof. Regardless if there are those better
>qualified or not, that is a non-sequitor.
Why? If I claim that I have gangrene in my foot, don't you think it's
reasonable to get a more qualified person (a medical doctor) to examine
the foot before I personally choose to amputate?
>
>>That is why I made an earlier remark about forensic science. It _is_
>>a science, you know. It's sole purpose is to _study_ any available
>>evidence (usually in the form of traces), and come to some sort of
>>conclusion.
>
>Forensic science deals with evidence, not observations. It will be useful
>only if there is some physical trace left behind. This is rarely the
>case as I understand it. But I think that assumptions build into the
>firensic sciences (like humans are involved using known materials and
>equipment) might render forensics less usable than you might think.
>If all they could do was say "event X happened, we do not know how it
>was done, and the observations cannot be reproduced by known tools and
>techniques", then no useful conclusions would be forthcoming.
True.
>
>
>Rich again, again!
Jim Graham - ditto, ditto.
-> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
Neither do they speak for me.
______________________________________________________________________
| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu |
| dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu |
| BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
| (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. |
|______________________________________________________________________|
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!dougmc
From: dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Doug McLaren)
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.is.too,alt.alien.visitors,alt.alien,alt.finals.suicide,alt.my.head.hurts,alt.noise,alt.sex.wizards,misc.test,alt.test
Subject: Laura's 22nd birthday !!!!
Summary: wish her a happy birthday !
Keywords: birthday 22 Mr. Winky
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.212619.4004@ctr.columbia.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 92 21:26:19 GMT
Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose)
Reply-To: dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Doug McLaren)
Followup-To: alt.party
Organization: Doug's House of Disco
Lines: 17
Approved: are you kidding ?
Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:50813 alt.alien.visitors:4649 alt.sex.wizards:266 misc.test:13392 alt.test:13432
Originator: dougmc@huey.cc.utexas.edu
Today (Feb 24) is Laura's (weezyl@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) 22nd birthday ...
Send her some mail and tell her to have a good one !
(and tell her she needs to have a party ! :)
Thanks ... Doug
--
The opinions stated above are mine (and quite possibly mine alone!) However,
for a brief time, and a nominal fee, they can be yours too. Operators are
standing by! Call Now! DouG McLareN, dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
"It's not totally empty ... there's a chiapet."
"That's not a chiapet ... that's last month's meatloaf !"
--
The opinions stated above are mine (and quite possibly mine alone!) However,
for a brief time, and a nominal fee, they can be yours too. Operators are
standing by! Call Now! DouG McLareN, dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!Edit47.mndly.umn.edu!hamilton
From: hamilton@edit.mndly.umn.edu (MARGARET HAMILTON)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: test
Message-ID: <hamilton.1@edit.mndly.umn.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 92 22:08:25 GMT
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this is a test. ignore it.
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From: SCHLEGEL@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Mark)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets (M.S.)
Message-ID: <1992Feb25.001012.4724@news.unomaha.edu>
Date: 25 Feb 92 00:10:12 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com> <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com> <1992Feb23.014702.24910@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
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In-Reply-To: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca's message of Sun, 23 Feb 1992 01: 47:02 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11
In <1992Feb23.014702.24910@watdragon.waterloo.edu> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca writes:
> In article <1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
> >jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
> >
> >> What is Earth's radio noise output like these days? Assuming no
> >>attempt on our part to be noticed by hypothetical ETIs, would it be
> >>obvious to the ETIs why the sun (or a close companion to it) appeared
> >>to be a major radio source?
> > The big problem here is of course where to look... Even FM
> >is a pretty large bandwidth to sample, and there isn't and logical reason
> >for ETs to start looking there (that I know of).
> >
>
> A hstory question here: anyone know how much of the way we use
> radio (in terms of radio vs TV broadcasts, etc) is forced on us by
> physics and how much was a 'fluke' product of early decisions in the
> field (Like, for example, early radio stations using a range of frequencies,
> forcing later EMR communications to use other frequencies)?
>
> James Nicoll
A lot of the way we use radio is dictated by physics, TV requires that much
more information be sent per second than radio (the picture needs lots of
data). Basically a large information rate requires a large bandwidth and
at low radio frequencies large bandwidth transmissions crowd the available
spectrum --this is why the gov't (FCC) allocates the higher frequency bands
to TV, radar, etc. and the lower bands to less information intensive use (like
shortwave amateurs).
But as far as the Earth's radio emission is concerned there is a more
interesting problem estimating the difficulty of aliens detecting us
or our detecting them---> We've only used radio for maybe 80 years and TV/
radar for 45 years. The Earth has only been emitting EM waves at large power
levels for the last few decades of this period. But notice what we're doing
now -- we're replacing our old radio and TV antennas with cable TV, satellites,
and fiber optic cable which leak almost no detectable power to space. So
by about the year 2000 almost all information will go through optic fibers and
high bandwidth/high frequency comsats (at low power levels because of the
efficiency of modern amplifiers and antennas). Earth may only be detectable
for this short half century window, if the ET's don't look soon they'll miss us.
If the ET's have a similar shift to low emission technology we'll never see them
unless they transmit signals to space on purpose.
Mr. Donahue brought up the question of where should we look in the huge EM
band. It may not be total guesswork because the ET's should be at least as
clever as us and we know that there frequencies where the interstellar medium
absorbs background radio noise, like the region around 1420 MHz. This is one
of the places we would send messages so they might also.
--- Mark ----
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 25 Feb 92 00:33:24 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> <1992Feb24.051417.149485@zeus.calpoly.edu> <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)
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joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes:
>jgreen@zeus.calpoly.edu (James T. Green) writes:
>|>Once the Mars Observer gets to Mars, it should take a series of
>|>photos of the "face" from several angles and sun angles
>|>so we can settle once and for all if it really is a boring
>|>rock...or an interesting one.
If I recall correctly, MO will go into a roughly sun synchronus orbit. It
may be able to take pictures from slightly different angles, but don't count
on the sun angle being much different.
>|>Whatever it looks like, I'd say the Mars face is as natural as
>|>the "Man" in the moon.
>what odds would you give?
If I gambled, I'd say it was very likely. I'm not a bookie, so I wouldn't
know how to pick the numbers.
>josh
Josh Hopkins
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From: bhoughto@hopi.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?
Keywords: Open-minded skepticism
Message-ID: <9320@inews.intel.com>
Date: 24 Feb 92 23:49:28 GMT
References: <J23ggB3w164w@cellar.org> <1992Feb24.052333.6847@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>
Sender: news@inews.intel.com
Organization: Intel Corp, Chandler, AZ
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Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:20971 sci.physics:17945 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1054 alt.alien.visitors:4653
I dunno about "less hostility;" but certainly less ignorant
hostility.
Just saying "that's stupid, go back in your hole and seal
the trap-door behind you!" is not science.
--Blair
"It is, however, great fun
when done correctly. :-)"
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From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A perspective on the topic of "good" and "evil" extraterrestrials.
Summary: Nobody is coming to invade Earth except perhaps our own fears.
Keywords: 11:11
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.020157.12139@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 92 02:01:57 GMT
Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 198
The subject of "good" vs. "bad" extraterrestrial civilizations
has come up often lately, and I felt I would share this information
with those who are interested in knowing the possibilities of our
interactions with other worlds. I took the excepts below from "Bashar:
Blueprint for Change - A Message from Our Future", by Darryl Anka and
Luana Ewing. The book is "channeled" from an extraterrestrial by the
name of Bashar, although don't let that label add to or take away from
the content of the message. Bashar comes from our "future", or rather
from a loving alien society that we will soon be very similar to. This
is a truly amazing book with all kinds of wisdom, hope, and accurate
information. There is lots more I can say from this source, but for
now, here is a question and answer session about the topic at hand:
(Loving thanks to you-know-who-you-are for loaning the book to me!)
--
Q: What about a planet with a life system that has developed with a
war-like mentality, one that can enter this part of our galaxy with
intentions on conquering? Will that likely happen, Bashar?
Understand that individuals with that intention do not really get
very far. The idea is also that your energy as a world now has changed
sufficiently so that even if there should be another civilization
close at hand with intention of conquering and dominating, they would
be hard pressed to even find you now. For your vibration is a little
bit too different from any society that might actually with to push
themselves into space with war-like intentions of coming here to take
over.
Now, the idea is also that traveling in space is actually
traveling within. And true, space travel is not the idea of what your
technology is right now, where in a sense you are sliding around on
the *surface* of space. When you understand how to breach the barriers
of space and time itself, you will discover it requires a very highly
integrated attitude, and a highly integrated attitude makes it very
unlikely you will ever be of a war-like nature, and in fact you would
not get very far if you were. For even if you were to make the
attempt, you would most likely find yourselves dispersed at the other
end....
The idea of war-like planets in conquering modes can and have
happened, but they are usually relegated to certain levels of
dimensionality. Many times that means they actually have to be in
physical proximity to each other, and in our perception, not on any
level is there a race of such a nature within hundreds of light years
of your world. For the idea is this: now that your vibration is
changing into a modality they would not even begin to be able to
understand, they probably would not find you even if they looked. So
in a sense, that makes *you* the most war-like planet around... and
*we* have no fear of you. Therefore, in actual fact, if there were
going to be any concern at all, it would probably be from our end, not
yours.
Q: But aren't there wars between other planets?
If we might draw an analogy to what many of you have assumed
*must* exist elsewhere in the universe, simply because it exists upon
your planet....
In a sense, there are other places, and have been interactions
throughout the different galaxies, that might loosely amount to what
you call warfare. There have been many variations of this theme on
many different worlds from time to time. You are not unique in that.
But the idea many of you have perceived, which has to do with alien
consciousness that may have negative intentions toward other worlds:
this particular negative intention does not always manifest itself in
the absolute format you would recognize as warfare.
For recognize, in many ways warfare is quite improbable in terms
of galactic and stellar distances. There is rarely any need for such
an idea, since there is always more than enough room for expansion,
and therefore more than enough room for different ideologies. Every
civilization is a different reality in many ways, and generally
speaking one reality is usually experienced only by one civilization
until they make agreements to share common frequencies, common wave
lengths between different worlds - which then allows them to interact
in various ways.
But if they do not make that agreement, then chances are they
will rarely encounter other civilizations if they are not of a mind to
interact with those other civilizations in mutually beneficial ways...
unless they wish to lure themselves to civilizations that as a whole
are choosing to function as victims, and draw to themselves - out of
their fears, out of their doubts - the idea of a conquering
civilization. However, even this notion is usually not able to be
played out in your typical fashion of warfare and domination. For, as
we said earlier, the stellar distances make this very improbable.
Do recognize also that although it may seem symbolically like
planets are being conquered, none can be conquered if they do not
vibrate to the idea that they *can* be. And thus you will find that
the so-called best safeguard to the idea is to simply know you are not
of that vibration, that idea. And they, not being of the same reality,
will never find you. If they should come to what represents - to them
- your planet, it will not - to them - seem to be at all inhabited.
So the idea, more often than not, of what could be considered a
conquering race, and a conquered race - to use the terms loosely -
would be simply the willingness of the conquered to give up their
power completely to the conqueror, to allow their lives to be run by
someone else, and to have all their power removed and all the
responsibility for the creation of their lives taken from them. But
not taken without their consent, for it cannot happen without that
consent.
Thus the type of warfare that has occurred in this sense has
simply been one of a people succumbing to an idea and allowing
themselves to fall in line, to fall under the domination and the
auspices of another civilization successfully using the idea of
seduction to lure that civilization under their banner. The
"conquering" civilization then is able to increase its numbers and
increase its strength very literally by talking the other civilization
into allowing themselves to be dominated. They can do this by taking
responsibility for their needs, by pretending to take care of those
needs, and by removing from them in the process all of their ability
to know and believe they can create their own lives as they choose
them to be.
This is the type of warfare that is more common. Is is a mental idea,
a psychic idea, in that sense. But even that, in our experience, is a
relatively uncommon thing. For not *that* many civilizations we have
encountered are that willing to forget who and what they are to the
degree where they would attract such a liaison with another
civilization that would even *want* that type of dominion over other
worlds. Both of these ideas are relatively rare in our experience.
All the ideas of what you now represent to be war-like
projections into space are, for the most part, in your long distant
past. Do understand something: though we are not saying the scenario
that has been painted in literal terms is actually literal, the idea
of your science fiction stories - particularly the one you call *Star
Wars* - did carry with it one of the strongest insights of all, and
that is that you were told it was a long time ago. For indeed it no
longer has anything really to do with your present. At least not, as
you say, in your neck of the woods! It is a representation of the old
cycle of negativity, and a connection to many other star systems
through which you have come. It was simply applied to a future format.
Q: Bashar, my understanding is that some of those space beings, such
as those connected to the dark side of Orion, are hostile to Earth and
Earthlings.
We will discuss this idea with you if you will first understand
that the idea of any consciousness which could be said to be
negatively oriented can only form connections with individuals who
believe that those supposedly negative individuals have the power to
force connections of that nature upon them. In other words, only your
fear and concern that they may have that type of power will actually
give them the power necessary to form a link with anyone in your
civilization. Otherwise just recognize that there are many so-called
negative individuals and negative consciousnesses in many other
worlds, just as there are many negatively oriented individuals on your
own planet.
It does not mean that they must interact with you. And if you are
willing to be the vibration, the frequency, and the attitude of the
perspective of the reality you choose to be, then they will not be
able to intercept your reality. Recognize that the primary idea of
negativity is not specifically isolated to the constellation you refer
to as Orion; it does involve many other systems throughout the local
galaxy.
As we have said, many of the individuals on your planet now are
literally reincarnated Orions, and they have formed a connection to
that origin point, so to speak, reincarnating upon Earth to allow
themselves to learn the balance point of the positive and negative
polarities so that they can create only positive manifestation in
their lives. They can switch themselves to a frequency that is out of
reach of the former negativity that was inherent in the original
parent systems of the Orion area.
You will find that time and space being what they are, and all
things being simultaneous, some of these original Orion negative
consciousnesses still have the ability to be picked up on be whichever
individuals on your planet may still choose to function along the same
old style frequency - time and space not being a barrier to the idea
of telepathic contact on any level.
However, it is also important to recognize that many of the
individuals of the Orion influence, or "persuasion," have been, and
are now, allowing themselves to crystallize into a very balanced idea
of polarity. In the original home systems that energy in turn has
allowed them to now be the creation and existence of light as well as
negativity.
Therefore, it would be our advice and our suggestion to you that
you simply do not focus on the idea that there are negative beings who
exist in the universe - other than those who exist on your own planet
- that could perhaps interact with you against your will, and focus on
the reality you choose to be. Then, by the fact that you will be on a
different frequency, this will place you completely beyond the reach
of anyone who is not on the same loving frequency.
Q: Well then, how do we stop wars and have a peaceful planet?
Please understand that if you believe in peace, then you do not
have to hate war. YOU DO NOT GET PEACE BY HATING WAR; YOU GET PEACE BY
LOVING PEACE. Hate only reinforces the things you say you do not
prefer, because that's what you are focusing on. *Be* peace; *live*
peace. *Breathe* peace; *Share* peace. Love, unconditional love, will
transform your entire world in the twinkling of an eye. UNCONDITIONAL
love for all.
--
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
| Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen | pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
| "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to |
- you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be -
| with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <1992Feb25.044729.1040@cbnewsd.att.com>
Date: 25 Feb 92 04:47:29 GMT
References: <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 14
In article <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu>, dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett) writes:
>
> Isn't it amazing that UFO sightings really started [in the UFO sense] in the mid to late '40's? Roughly 20 to 30
> years after most of the ground-breaking research into higher frequencies in radio. And has increased stedily since
I used to be an avid UFO buff for at least 10 years straight('68-78')
approximately. I remember reading about sightings of dirigibles in the
mid to late 1800's before they were manufactured and used.
If this is accurate, they first appeared in modern times in the form
of airships or zeppelins. It wasn't until mid 1940'(?) they were sighted
as flying discs near Mt. Ranier in Washington state.
Any support?
barry olson
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From: rmaddy@eos.ncsu.edu (RICHARD M ADDY)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.brother-jed,alt.desert-shield.erotica,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.fishing,alt.tasteless,alt.true.crime
Subject: Happy Hunter
Message-ID: <1992Feb25.043942.16981@ncsu.edu>
Date: 25 Feb 92 04:39:42 GMT
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Lines: 63
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To: ST1IK%UHUPVM1@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu
You've got to read this. By the way, I don't quite have the hang
of this feature - you may get multiple copies.
In article <137762@becker.UUCP>, bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) writes:
Xref: taco alt.brother-jed:940 alt.fishing:4748 alt.tasteless:7857
alt.true.crime:49
Path:
taco!lll-winken!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!think.com!mips!swrinde
e!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!utzoo!censor!comspec!becker!bdb
From: bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker)
Newsgroups:
alt.alien.visitors,alt.brother-jed,alt.desert-shield.erotica,alt.explodi
ing.kibo,alt.fishing,alt.tasteless,alt.true.crime
Subject: boom
Message-ID: <137762@becker.UUCP>
Date: 21 Feb 92 18:06:20 GMT
Organization: G. T. S., Toronto, Ontario
Lines: 33
DEAD HUNTERS GIVEN FINAL SHOTGUN BLAST
Associated Press
DES MOINES, Iowa - The way Jay Knudsen
sees it, the ashes of dead hunters don't
belong in urns on the mantle. So, for
about the cost of a funeral and sometimes
a lot less, he will take the ashes to the
sportsman's favourite marsh or bear
country and blast them to smithereens.
"We can't get you to heaven," he
advertises, "but we promise to land you in
the happy hunting ground."
A landscaper by trade, Mr. Knudsen has
an off-season service for the survivors of
dedicated hunters. He loads ashes into
shotgun shells, performs whatever ritual
the family wishes and then blasts away.
"This is not a morbid thing, to shoot
ol' Joe down the barrel of a shotgun in an
area he loved to hunt," Mr. Knudsen said.
--
,u, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ontario
a /i/ Internet: bdb@becker.gts.org, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu
`\o\-e UUCP: ...!lsuc!becker!bdb
_< /_ "Ceci n'est pas un \"" - Rene "Day" Taxi # 12 & 35
--
---------------------------------------------
Richard Addy
NCSU
rmaddy@eos.ncsu.edu
"One Objects!
One is miffed in the extreme!"
- Eupathic Impulse
_Jack_the_Bodiless_
Julian May
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From: rhoge1@esk (Robert James Hoge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: TEST POST: Please Respond
Message-ID: <1992Feb25.044708.19813@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au>
Date: 25 Feb 92 04:47:08 GMT
Sender: news@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Lines: 14
References: <9202142126.AA27523@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Sender:Kid
Followup-To:Len
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Just a reply from your letter to see if there was anything to it first.
Australia - Reply "Kid" only!
C
C
C
D
D
Uni od Tasmania Launceston
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From: rmaddy@eos.ncsu.edu (RICHARD M ADDY)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.brother-jed,alt.desert-shield.erotica,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.fishing,alt.tasteless,alt.true.crime
Subject: Re: Happy Hunter
Message-ID: <1992Feb25.045425.17681@ncsu.edu>
Date: 25 Feb 92 04:54:25 GMT
References: <1992Feb25.043942.16981@ncsu.edu>
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: rmaddy@eos.ncsu.edu (RICHARD M ADDY)
Organization: Project EOS - North Carolina State University
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4658 alt.brother-jed:953 alt.exploding.kibo:84 alt.fishing:3733 alt.tasteless:7939
--
Sorry about that - I was trying to send the posting to another user.
And with my name plastered across the header! The Shame!
---------------------------------------------
Richard Addy
NCSU
rmaddy@eos.ncsu.edu
"One Objects!
One is miffed in the extreme!"
- Eupathic Impulse
_Jack_the_Bodiless_
Julian May
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off
Message-ID: <jms.07if@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 24 Feb 92 00:14:19 GMT
References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 30
In article <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca> roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr) writes:
>It is important to note that much the same was said of the Hubble Space Tele-
>scope prior to its launch. Oh yes, they said, we'll be able to see planets
>orbiting distant stars - maybe even find evidence of extraterrestrial life!
Planets orbiting distant stars aren't evidence of extraterrestrial life. I
don't know what you're talking about.
>But the equipment failed - just like the probe that located the Mars Face.
Phobos failed (and I know about the pictures and all that.) But I think
the face was located by Viking, which (as far as I know) lived about as
long as it was expected to. Not only that, but wasn't the face noticed
some time after the pictures were taken? (Lots of pictures take a while to
look at.)
>And I wouldn't be too surprised if the marvellous Mars Observer inherits some
>strange post-launch "malfunction" just like many of its more recent
>predecessors.
While we're speculating, there was some speculation last year (I think)
that the Mars Observer had been secretly launched on one of the
DOD-dedicated space shuttle flights. And then there's Cooper's story that
we've been to Mars in the 1950s. (I'd like to see evidence of *that*!)
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space,sci.skeptic,sci.physics
Subject: Re: Zoomed Mars-face,inka-city posted to alt.binaries!
Message-ID: <jms.07ih@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 24 Feb 92 00:28:34 GMT
References: <behse.698489924@tubue> <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors, sci.skeptic
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 24
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4660 alt.paranormal:4492 sci.space:27008 sci.skeptic:20980 sci.physics:17957
In article <3579@mercury.brunel.ac.uk> cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk (Sunil Gupta) writes:
>well this is the reply from nasa (telnet 128.158.13.250)
>
>=======START=====MESSAGE FROM NASA======10-Feb-92==10:55:00
>The "face" on Mars is an interesting geological feature that resembles a face
>because of its structure and pattern of shadows.
>=======END=======MESSAGE FROM NASA=========================
While I'm generally skeptical about claims with so little evidence (like
the Face), I don't see how NASA could have the *definitive* answer without
getting up there and checking it out.
>its odd though Ive seen another mars "face" picture" but that in comaprison was
>smaller and much sharper. The image that was posted appears to be no only
>processed but touched up by hand.
I've seen one that was touched up to look like "Bob". (It was smoking a
pipe, of course.)
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <jms.07ij@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 24 Feb 92 00:34:21 GMT
References: <behse.697924019@tubue> <LJwegB1w164w@coert.uucp> <1992Feb20.183623.23228@mprgate.mpr.ca>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 17
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4661 sci.space:27009 sci.skeptic:20981 alt.paranormal:4493
In article <1992Feb20.183623.23228@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes:
>In article <LJwegB1w164w@coert.uucp>, doctor@coert.uucp (Daniel Klugh) writes:
>|> Maybe the Doctor Who story "Pyramids of Mars" wasn't a story at all.
>
>Take a close look at the face on Mars...
>
>It is a cyberman!
The thought had occurred to me. As well as the logo of Mercury Records,
and the cover of the recent Elton John tribute album. Which really goes to
show you how the mind works, while meaning absolutely nothing.
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <jms.07ip@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 24 Feb 92 00:39:15 GMT
References: <1992Feb16.015947.8887@cs.cornell.edu> <2417@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> <1992Feb16.182031.9159@cs.cornell.edu> <1992Feb20.171357.14364@tcom.stc.co.uk>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 19
In article <1992Feb20.171357.14364@tcom.stc.co.uk> patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan) writes:
> In Cambridgeshire, England, last year another "circle" of some
>mathematical interest appeared. It was roughly heart-shaped with circles of
>various sizes around it. In fact it was strikingly similar to a mandelbrot set,
>a complicated mathematical figure which can only be represented by a fractal.
I had heard that this was a hoax by some local students, but I don't know
if that story itself is true. Anybody know for sure?
Also, while the Mandelbrot set itself is a fractal, a stylistic
approximation of it is not a fractal and requires no computation at all.
(Other than symmetry along one axis.) It could have been produced by
humans as easily as any other geometric pattern with a little planning.
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off
Message-ID: <jms.07ir@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 24 Feb 92 01:14:32 GMT
References: <1992Feb17.173651.13619@descartes.waterloo.edu> <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca> <1992Feb21.014725.17430@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb21.194854.22858@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 25
In article <1992Feb21.194854.22858@ccu.umanitoba.ca> roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr) writes:
>He's sort of "got me" here... I'd _heard_ that the Mars Face was located
>by a probe that was sent to Mars by the United States to study the Martian
>moons. Unfortunately, I heard this over a local radio broadcast some time
>ago and I haven't heard anything more since then. Was the Mars Face first
>located by the Viking Probes? If not, why didn't we hear about all the
>Mars Face just after the Vikings landed???
It takes time and people to sort through all the pictures. (Nobody's going
to put face-recognition in the software of a planetary probe, after all).
The Russians did send two probes to Mars, years after the Vikings I think.
If I remember rightly, one died on the way and the other died under
circumstances which, if reports are correct, could be construed as odd.
(The probes were called Phobos, which is the name of one of the Martian
moons, and one was photographing one of the moons when it died. But I
don't know if they were only going to look at the moons, or at Mars also.
And to add confusion, there was an old ('60s or '70s, I think) Russian
theory that the Martian moons were spacecraft.)
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?
Message-ID: <jms.07it@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 24 Feb 92 01:29:43 GMT
References: <110232.299F177A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <jms.07dr@vanth.UUCP> <26506@hoptoad.uucp>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 21
In article <26506@hoptoad.uucp> chroma@hoptoad.uucp (Steve Kudlak) writes:
>What I would be really interested in is a set of books that proport to
>go on in this sort of style, with "fictional newspaper reports" and
>"fictional government documents" and the like, or something that mixes
>fact and fiction for some effect like UFO ideas.
I haven't read any of them so I can't give you any personal opinions, but
"Majestic" by Whitley Strieber is based on the Roswell / MJ-12 scenario,
Sydney Sheldon's "The Doomsday Conspiracy" is fiction but has a UFO coverup
theme, and then there's a British book and TV show (movie?) called
"Alternative 3" that's *really* UFO-conspiracy oriented, to the extent that
there's been quite a bit of debate over whether it might actually be real.
And I almost forgot "Genesis" and its sequels by W. A. Harbinson,
which are in just as controversial a situation as "Alternative 3".
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: California CE-3's
Message-ID: <jms.07iv@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 24 Feb 92 01:32:33 GMT
References: <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 29
In article <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu> vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus) writes:
>In article <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:
>>Yesterday I saw an ABC news report on an anonymous family in California who
>>claim that they're visited by aliens every night. The aliens probe them
>>with beams of light, sometimes right through the ceiling of the house while
>>the family is awake. They made drawings of the ships and they look fairly
>
> Couldn't be beams of light - ceilings tend to stop those.
You're right of course, but remember that a lot of UFO reports tend to have
paranormal elements.
>>complex, with rows of lights or jets on the bottom. They also have
>>videotape of them, but the videotape just shows large, pale circular
>
> No surprise here. You would think with all the camcorders out
> these days, one person would be able to actually film a UFO without
> focusing problems. Bullshit about aliens affecting electronics is
> a cop-out.
Just to keep the record straight, nobody claimed interference, at least not
as far as was mentioned. I fully agree, as I said, that *whatever* it was
was severely out of focus.
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy
From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: California CE-3's
Message-ID: <p2khgyp@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 25 Feb 92 08:00:13 GMT
References: <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu> <jms.07iv@vanth.UUCP>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 27
In article <jms.07iv@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:
>
>You're right of course, but remember that a lot of UFO reports tend to have
>paranormal elements.
>
Yes, that way it makes it impossible to explain things.
>
>Just to keep the record straight, nobody claimed interference, at least not
>as far as was mentioned. I fully agree, as I said, that *whatever* it was
>was severely out of focus.
>
I did not mean to imply that interference was caused in this case, but
it is an excuse used in the past. You would think that if someone was
filming a potentially earth-shattering event, he would make sure the
focus was sharp. The fact that it wasn't tells us something.
--
"You ask me if sex is one of the most \\ // Phred Platypus
important things in life? Absolutely. \\ // Grammarian of Vengeance
But the lack of it is even likelier \\// [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ]
to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison \/ Vincent J. Murphy
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!umasp
From: UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU, , National Headquarters>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <92055.232412UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Date: 25 Feb 92 04:24:12 GMT
References: <FJoDgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 40
In reference to the posting by one Gary Stollman, the Board of Directors
at Clones of America would like to respond by saying that we are not in
any way responsible for turning Gary's mother, Mrs. Stollman, into Jesus.
Further, rumors that we turned his father into a Can of Spam are simply
not true. We, at Clones of America, strive to bring you the best clones
possible at reasonable prices. Anyone dissatisfied with the results of
their clone, may request a full refund of the purchase price (less shipping).
Don't be misled by vicious lies and rumors about extra body parts and
incorrectly attached sex organs. All such stories are merely attempts to
discredit us by our competition. To the perveyors of such lies, we at
Clones of America say 'Go fuck yourself!', which, with a clone, is considered
technically possible. We want the people of this planet to be happy with
their clones...to derive the maximum benefit from them. Feel free to call
us anytime to discuss cloning options and to receive a free price list.
Our number is 1-800-4CLONES. Thank you for your attention. Before leaving,
however, we would like to say one last thing to Gary Stollman:
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.
We've cloned everyone that we possibly could,
Are you next?
Could you be next?
We've cloned all your neighbors and relatives too,
and now we're out looking for somebody new,
Are you next?
Could you be next?
We have always wanted to clone a wacko,
just like you.
To see you go mad, like your mom and dad,
and your neighbors too.
So, lets make the most of this beautiful day,
we brought our new clone gun, so 'Come out and play!'
Think about it, it won't hurt a bit,
Won't you be our victim.
Won't you please, won't you please,
please won't you be our victim.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb25.113458.22064@rhrk.uni-kl.de>
Date: 25 Feb 92 11:34:58 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.234317.3401@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Feb18.192601.285@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <rzchkxgsheaffer@netcom.com> <!cdhsyrnoring@netcom.com> <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>
Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Lines: 19
Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4494 alt.alien.visitors:4668 sci.skeptic:20991
In article <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu>, Frank T Lofaro <fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> That is a somewhat hollow argument. You are comparing the statement
>being tested to something that is obviously ridiculous and then using
>that as the basis for attacking the original statement. While it would
>be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by
>demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many
>of them are.
You fail to see that there are different standards of ridiculosity(?).
Your demons are "obviously ridiculous" to me, like Gerry's Martians
with acne are to you. Gerry uses a statement that is obviously
ridiculous to *everyone* (I hope) to demonstrate you the feeling
other people have when you talk of demons (my interpretation).
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
Because the hypothesized anomalous effect is not easily accommo-
dated within the prevailing scientific world-view, it is parti-
cularly important to assess the trustworthiness of each reviewed
experiment. - Radin and Nelson
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!yfn.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!dam137
From: DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: 25 Feb 92 16:17:21 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.214549.17438@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
<1992Feb20.062214.28423@cco.caltech.edu>
<1992Feb21.191632.6223@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>
<1992Feb24.051417.149485@zeus.calpoly.edu>
<1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
<1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiu
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 23
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4669 sci.space:27022 sci.skeptic:21001 alt.paranormal:4496
In article <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Josh 'K' Hopkins) says:
>
>>|>Whatever it looks like, I'd say the Mars face is as natural as
>>|>the "Man" in the moon.
>
>>what odds would you give?
>
>If I gambled, I'd say it was very likely. I'm not a bookie, so I wouldn't
>know how to pick the numbers.
>>josh
> Josh Hopkins
>
We should also remember that faces in rocks also occur on the Earth without
the help of intelligence. I believe the place is called "The Man In The
Mountain" in New Hampshire. Its a natural rock outcrop that looks very
like an old man's face...
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you remove the impossible, whatever's left, no matter how improbable,
is the answer... --Sir Arthur C. Doyle
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!yfn.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!dam137
From: DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets (M.S.)
Message-ID: <92056.114708DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: 25 Feb 92 16:47:08 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.053314.15677@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
<1992Feb20.223640.17131@spdcc.com>
<1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
<1992Feb21.220729.29019@spdcc.com>
<1992Feb23.014702.24910@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
<1992Feb25.001012.4724@news.unomaha.
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 10
Just a side note...just recently, I remember seeing a list of the closest and
most visible stars to earth and the probability calculations worked out as to
which of them were most likely to contain planets, which would have class M
(earth-like) planets, and some other planetary types, and which would be the
best probable planets for life "as we know it" to exist...
If anyone knows where I can get a copy of this list, could they please send it
my way via E-Mail (no need to waste bandwidth...).
Dave
Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Books (Was:Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?)
Summary: Anybody read these books?
Keywords: Books Books more Books
Message-ID: <289@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 25 Feb 92 19:11:44 GMT
References: <jms.07dr@vanth.UUCP> <26506@hoptoad.uucp> <jms.07it@vanth.UUCP>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 55
In article <jms.07it@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:
[Steve Kudlak stuff was here]
>
>I haven't read any of them so I can't give you any personal opinions, but
>"Majestic" by Whitley Strieber is based on the Roswell / MJ-12 scenario,
>Sydney Sheldon's "The Doomsday Conspiracy" is fiction but has a UFO coverup
>theme, and then there's a British book and TV show (movie?) called
>"Alternative 3" that's *really* UFO-conspiracy oriented, to the extent that
>there's been quite a bit of debate over whether it might actually be real.
>And I almost forgot "Genesis" and its sequels by W. A. Harbinson,
>which are in just as controversial a situation as "Alternative 3".
People that are into books probably are reading this threads so
here it goes. Anybody read the following UFO Books and give an opinion?
`UFP Crash at Aztec' -A well kept secret
By Willian S. Steinman & Wendelle C. Stevens
ISBN: 0-934269-05-X
`UFO Photographs around the World Vol 1'
ISBN: 0-934269-00-9
`UFO Photographs around the World Vol 2'
ISBN: 0-934269-01-7
`UFO Contact from the Reticulum'
By: Wendelle Stevens
ISBN: 0-93785-06-3
`Light Years'
By: Gary Kinder
ISBN: 0-87113-139-0
`Extraterrestrials among us'
By: George Andrews
ISBN: 0-87542-010-9
`The Goblin Universe'
By: Ted Holiday
ISBN: 0-87542-310-8
`UFO's over modern China'
By: Stevens and Dong
ISBN:0-9608558-3-1
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!richard
From: richard@nacjack.gen.nz (Richard Vowles)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Recent juvenile posts
Message-ID: <16da2e88@nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 24 Feb 92 11:18:32 GMT
Organization: Malleus Maleficarum - Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre
Lines: 18
Regarding the recent posts from various members of Dimension BBS that
pass through this BBS, they have been spoken to and will refrain from
doing it in the future.
Sorry about the inconvenience, but please don't post me any more mail.
It costs.
Richard
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In complete darkness we are all the same. It is only our knowledge and
wisdom that seperates us. Don't let your eyes deceive you.
"I make sure I spread my villainy thinly...." - Bernadette Mooney
USENET : richard@nacjack.gen.nz The Demi-Monde : 199:310/1
FIDONET : Richard Vowles 3:772/110.0 Amateur Radio : ZL1UTF
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!aisb!cstr!rjc
From: rjc@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Richard Caley)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <RJC.92Feb25091320@brodie.cstr.ed.ac.uk>
Date: 25 Feb 92 09:13:20 GMT
References: <8ddhwp=sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Feb24.050239.6239@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>
Sender: news@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Network News Administrator)
Organization: Centre for Speech Technology Research
Lines: 15
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:21026 sci.space:27043 alt.paranormal:4498 alt.alien.visitors:4673
In-Reply-To: chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com's message of 24 Feb 92 05:02:39 GMT
In article <1992Feb24.050239.6239@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>, Tom Chapin (tc) writes:
Robert Sheaffer writes:
rs> The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on whoever makes extraordinary claims.
tc> And just who gets to define what is ordinary and what is extraordinary?
Whoever you are trying to convince, obviously.
You don't have to produce extrodinary proof unless you wish people who
find your claims extrodinary to believe you.
--
rjc@cstr.ed.ac.uk _O_
|<
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!netcomsv!ctedge!bogus!root
From: root@bogus.UUCP (David Grant)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets (M.S.)
Message-ID: <Xo7PgB1w164w@Bogus.COM>
Date: 26 Feb 92 00:18:08 GMT
References: <92056.114708DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>
Organization: Bogus.COM -- Public Access Network Services
Lines: 13
<DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
> If anyone knows where I can get a copy of this list, could they please send i
> my way via E-Mail (no need to waste bandwidth...).
>
> Dave
I'd also like a copy, so maybe a post wouldn't be out of order.
<smile>
** Bogus -- Public Access Network Services (501) 525-1681 14400 HST/V.32 **
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Under law, can you indict an alien for rape?
Message-ID: <jms.07jd@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 25 Feb 92 18:08:56 GMT
References: <1992Feb23.201804.29490@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 7
Sounds like Phil Klass's challenge to report abductions to the FBI.
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen
From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A field trip on an extraterrestrial spacecraft.
Summary: A guided meditation
Keywords: 11:11
Message-ID: <1992Feb26.092511.19792@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Date: 26 Feb 92 09:25:11 GMT
References: <1992Feb24.020157.12139@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 164
--
Haven't you ever wanted to take a trip aboard an extraterrestrial
rayship into space? Well we can, here and now! This article contains a
short guided meditation where the reader takes an inner visit aboard
the mother ship of a loving alien race. Believe it or not, I would say
this is a rather accurate rendition of what it actually is like aboard
"typical" spacecraft, at least those not limited to our 3rd dimension!
The passage is another excerpt from the book "Bashar: Blueprint for
Change. A Message from Our Future", by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing,
which is "channeled" from an extraterrestrial named Bashar (although
don't let that label add to or take away from the feeling.) For those
who have been expressing interest in this book, it is 302 pages
($13.95 or so) available from New Solutions Publishing; Seattle, WA;
ISBN# 1-56284-113-0. The back cover of it reads as follows:
--
"Bashar, are we going to blow ourselves up?"
"No!! Your civilization has already decided on a collective
subconscious level not to do so.
You all chose to be here in this transformational age to see that you
do NOT replay Atlantis and destroy yourselves and your world this time
around.
Around the year 1997 a spark will be ignited in your Middle East....
There will be a complete transformation in that entire area....
By your year 2027 your world will be absolutely interwoven into the
Galactic Association of Worlds - as an equal member.
We have no need for you to believe us. We are here to assist you in
believing in yourselves.
The only time you have struggle and pain is when you are trying to
be someone you are not, fighting your natural flow.
When you remove guilt from your tool box, you will realize that
nothing is too good or too simple to be true; nothing is too
wondrous or too ecstatic to be yours.
You deserve all you can conceive of...."
--
And now let us take you on a field trip to the Solar Wind, our mother
ship.... Close your eyes.
In your mentality have the picture of the room you have created around
you, and envision each individual, all of you together, all at once,
surrounded by a blue crystalline bubble of energy. This bubble is your
elevator, your ship. Relax and allow yourselves now to become the
devices within the ship that activate it. Leave the idea of your
earthly devices and tools behind; pay attention to them no more. You
are the transference point; you are the ship.
Allow yourselves to recognize that the crystalline shell is quite
transparent; you can see through it and you can see the room. In
whatever way works best for you, in your imagination feel and see at
the same time the room around you dissolve into a gray, fog-like
state. You are all now together in this ship; you are all linked and
you are all breathing the same energy.
Breathe it in three times deeply and prepare yourselves. Align
yourselves; assimilate yourselves; unite yourselves. Feel the
connection; feel that while you are individuals, every single other
individual in this craft is *you*! - an extension of you, an
expression of you, a facet of you. You are all one, one master
crystal. And this crystal, in allowing the white light of your
consciousness to glow within its very core, within its very heart, now
comes alight with life and light, energizing the entire crystalline
craft and rising above the Earth - higher and higher into the upper
atmosphere, into what you call space.
Rising, you look down below. You see out of the fog now everything
clearing into brilliant space, black with white stars everywhere. You
see the beautiful Earth below you, shining like the jewel that it is,
in the velvet curtain of deepest space, and you send your love. You
see and feel and taste and hear the love of the Earth that is
supporting you, that is extending you on its arm, extending you on
your journey out into space. You are riding on the crest of the wave
of the heart of your planet.
Now as it offers you the jewels of space, you look up. You see
suspended in space before you a long cylindrical metallic object. It
is approximately a mile in length. You allow yourselves now to see an
opening in the side of this metallic object, wider and wider as you
approach. You enter that opening, and as it closes below you, you are
surrounded by a whiteness. You may sense in that whiteness, here and
there, solid or nebulous, consciousness peering at you, smiling with
you, loving with you, fading in and out - out of the milky whiteness.
But laughing and sharing joy all around.
Allow yourselves to know that you can now begin to explore any area in
any way, any aspect of this ship you so desire. There will always be
someone with you in some capacity. You will also always be connected
and feel the experiences of every other person you came with.
Now you are exiting the bubble and entering the milky whiteness of the
ship, exploring and breathing the new atmosphere. Feel the gentle
touches and caresses of the beingness all around you. Scatter and
explore; enjoy and become fascinated by what you discover. Taste,
touch, hear, feel, see, marvel. Recognize that you are sharing and
participating in the creation of a multitude of worlds. Experience and
take to heart these experiences.
Whether or not it appears to make sense to you, allow yourselves to
interpret, in whatever way you so desire, the different chambers and
areas of the ship. Let yourselves have the opportunity to recognize
that in a very real way you are projecting astrally a portion of your
consciousness. And that you are going to be funneling that information
back to your idea of your earthly selves, incorporating that
information into your very molecular structure. You will be feeding
this information into the atmosphere around you, and when you carry
this atmosphere back to your planet Earth, you will release the
information and energy on your planet - to change the very air that
you breathe, to change the very energy that sustains you.
Explore to your heart's content. Feel the vibrant pulse of life and
light, for it is light itself which powers the vessel, and all vessels
like it. It is the very heart and soul of the movement of space and
time through the central core of this ship that creates the illusion
of the ship's motion through all the dimensions of reality. Now be
aware of the whereabouts of each other. Gather yourselves back
together into your docking bay, into the milky whiteness. Feel the
caresses and the kisses that are given to you from heart to heart and
soul to soul.
As you form your craft round and about you in its crystalline beauty,
and the iris opens below you, allow yourselves to drift back outside
the hull into space and begin your travel toward planet Earth.
Recognize now, as you bid farewell, that this is not goodbye, that
this experience is directly with you now and it always shall be. And
as you look down through the crystalline bottom of your energy craft,
you see once again the beauty of the jewel of your Earth. Recognize
that it is in every way truly a new world to explore in all of its
unlimited fascination and facets.
You are eager to allow the atmosphere of the new crystalline reality
that you know you are participating within to burst upon contact with
your Earth and allow the shards of brilliant seed-like beauty to go
scattering everywhere, reflecting the beautiful light of your central
star. And as you sink gently back to Earth, see your feet gently touch
the ground. Send roots deep down to drink of the nourishment of the
fluid of the life and light of your home world, while knowing that all
worlds are your home world. Know that the life you are, the Earth you
are, is the nourishment that will allow you to grow toward the light
as high as you wish to go.
Know that every one of you have incorporated the information of the
experience in your own way, encoded it within you, and it will release
in its own fashion, after your own kind. And that much of your dream
reality can become vivid and vibrant. There may be more release, more
malleability, more recognition that life around you is but what you
dream it to be. Allow yourselves to know that it was a real
experience, and that you have projected a portion of yourselves aboard
that craft.
In every way there is still, and always will be, a portion of
yourselves aboard that craft that we will share, that you will share
together with us. We thank you for your participation, and we will
allow you to remember: ALL REUNIONS ARE SIMPLY AWAKENINGS TO THE UNION
THAT ALREADY EXISTS EVERYWHERE, EVERYWHEN.
--
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
| Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen | pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
| "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to |
- you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be -
| with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!uunet!ihz.compuserve.com!dzecchini
From: dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com>
Date: 26 Feb 92 09:42:43 GMT
References: <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>
Organization: CompuServe Incorporated
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Alright, everyone...if you wanted my opinion in the first place, I figure
that now's the best time to give it, after I've had a good chance to peruse
the images.
I've spent about 30-45 minutes studying both the non-enhanced and the
enhanced blow-up photos of the "face on Mars". And IMHO, there is NO
I repeat, NO significant evidence that suggests that the potential facial
features are symmetrical in nature, and the pattern of shadows appears
to be a one-sided effect that leaves much too much to the imagination
to be considered anything more than a natural formation.
In other words, there probably isn't a right-hand side to the face, and
the remainder boils down to three small hills, off-center, on a larger
hill that obscures part of the side in shadow.
No big deal.
I may be wrong, but at this point, that's my opinion, and hey, that's what
opinions are all about, now isn't it.
Be seeing you...
--
David "Maelstrom" Zecchini | "It may be better to be a live jackal
dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com | than a dead lion, but it is better still
dzecchin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | to be a live lion. And usually easier."
maelstro@bluemoon.rn.com | -Robert A. Heinlein
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Mike.Keithly
From: Mike.Keithly@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Keithly)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Gateway Test
Message-ID: <112051.29A937AF@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 24 Feb 92 15:48:01 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/605.0 - MICAP(sm) Net, Littleton CO
Lines: 19
> Hi everybody. Could a few of you respond to this test?
I suppose you are getting out to here so far..
Mike Keithly
> I'm wondering if my gateway is actually letting anything out
> of here...
> Thanks,
> Clark
> --- XRS 4.5!
> * Origin: The Wrong Number BBS - ParaNet(sm) PI (201)
> 451-3063 (1:107/816)
--
Mike Keithly - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Mike.Keithly@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews
From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Gateway Test
Message-ID: <112350.29AAE687@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 26 Feb 92 01:22:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ
Lines: 19
In a message to Clark Matthews <24 Feb 92 08:48> Mike Keithly wrote:
MK> I suppose you are getting out to here so far..
MK> Mike Keithly
Thanks, Mike! Now to see if anything comes back from the Internet.
I have assumed that my addressing is working correctly, but I get no responses to my posts. Maybe it's my BREATH??? :-)
BTW, how's XRS working for you? Let me know in ParaNet Sysop if I can help.
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!uunet!psgrain!percy!parsely!agora!trifid
From: trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?
Keywords: Open-minded skepticism
Message-ID: <1992Feb26.063418.7056@agora.uucp>
Date: 26 Feb 92 06:34:18 GMT
References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <house.698888095@helios>
Organization: Open Communications Forum
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Well, the theory behind "think tanks" is that we should listen to *all* input,
even the most bizarre and exotic. Not just for intellectual freedom, but
because a really "left field", unworkable theory might just trigger a *useful*
theory in another person who hears of it and is set to thinking along
unfamiliar lines...
Suze
Path: ns-mx!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!ukma!psuvax1!psuvm!dam137
From: DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?
Message-ID: <92057.090559DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: 26 Feb 92 14:05:59 GMT
References: <J23ggB3w164w@cellar.org>
<1992Feb24.052333.6847@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> <9320@inews.intel.com>
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 21
I'd have to disagree to a point. The hostility is actually quite well. It
creates two healthy climates. First of all, by being hostile, you are forcing
people to continuously look over their work and examine everything with the
finest detail. If their work is valid, they will amass the proof necessary
to defeat all arguments against it. The work will stand on its own merits
and no one will be able to logically and/or argumentativly (is there such a
word?) destroy the work. Secondly, it keeps a lot of crackpot theories off
of the net. If someone knows that they will be torn to shreads if they post
something either off the wall or inconclusive, they will be less likely to
post it. Either way, the hostility works out for the benifit of the group.
Those of us doing the yelling, however, must also be able to realize when we
can no longer refute an argument and must be strong enough to put our
pride aside and say, "I guess your theory is valid and I was wrong." When
both sides do their job, then the community in the whole will put out higher
quality work, even if it does take a bit more time. Sure, scientists in the
past have been criticized, called fools, made fun of, arrested, and so on, but
in the end, those who had valid theories that withstood the "hostile" critics
went on to be considered some of the brightest minds in the history of human-
kind.
Dave
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!danwell
From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?
Keywords: Open-minded skepticism
Message-ID: <1992Feb26.084632@IASTATE.EDU>
Date: 26 Feb 92 14:46:32 GMT
References: <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com> <house.698888095@helios> <1992Feb26.063418.7056@agora.uucp>
Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Organization: Iowa State University
Lines: 18
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:21040 sci.physics:18041 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1066 alt.paranormal:4505 alt.alien.visitors:4682 sci.energy:7896
In article <1992Feb26.063418.7056@agora.uucp>, trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster
Racewerks) writes:
> Well, the theory behind "think tanks" is that we should listen to *all*
input,
> even the most bizarre and exotic. Not just for intellectual freedom, but
> because a really "left field", unworkable theory might just trigger a
*useful*
> theory in another person who hears of it and is set to thinking along
> unfamiliar lines...
>
> Suze
Yes, well, but compare the amount of left field theorizing that
actually goes on with the amount optimal to jumpstart useful research.
I suspect we have saturated the market.
Dan
Danwell@IASTATE.EDU
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!masscomp!frank
From: frank@masscomp.westford.ccur.com (Frank Tredeau)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.energy
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?
Keywords: Open-minded skepticism
Message-ID: <62799@masscomp.westford.ccur.com>
Date: 26 Feb 92 18:25:04 GMT
References: <house.698888095@helios> <1992Feb26.063418.7056@agora.uucp> <1992Feb26.084632@IASTATE.EDU>
Followup-To: sci.skeptic
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford MA.
Lines: 23
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:21059 sci.physics:18055 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1068 alt.paranormal:4509 alt.alien.visitors:4683 sci.energy:7900
In article <1992Feb26.063418.7056@agora.uucp>, trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster
Racewerks) writes:
> Well, the theory behind "think tanks" is that we should listen to *all*
input,
> even the most bizarre and exotic. Not just for intellectual freedom, but
> because a really "left field", unworkable theory might just trigger a
*useful*
> theory in another person who hears of it and is set to thinking along
> unfamiliar lines...
>
> Suze
Just a leetle old clarification, Suze. I think what you
are discribing is problem solving technique called
'brain storming'. A Think Tank is a place where a bunch
of 'top experts in the field' get together and compare notes.
This would be places like MIT or the Rand Corp. or
Cal Tech.
The main diffrence is any group can 'brain storm' and people
at 'think tanks' try not to look foolish.
Frank Tredeau
sez me
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usc!wupost!spool.mu.edu!olivea!veritas!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes?
Keywords: Alternative 3
Message-ID: <2cmhl9qsheaffer@netcom.com>
Date: 26 Feb 92 19:01:02 GMT
References: <jms.07dr@vanth.UUCP> <26506@hoptoad.uucp> <jms.07it@vanth.UUCP>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 30
In article <jms.07it@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:
>theme, and then there's a British book and TV show (movie?) called
>"Alternative 3" that's *really* UFO-conspiracy oriented, to the extent that
>there's been quite a bit of debate over whether it might actually be real.
"Alternative 3" was actually an *April Fools Day* hoax from Anglia TV in
the U.K. about 15 years ago. Then Maj. Wayne Aho picked up on the
paperback book version of it, then Gray Barker did a column about
it and, bingo, *all* the paranoids of UFOland started to take "Alternative
3" seriously!
What, by the way, does "Alternative 3" claim? Only that there's a
secret, joint US/USSR space program to move the earth's elite to Mars
to escape "global warming." To accomplish this, they have created a
work force of kidnapped persons who have been turned into zombies to
work in secret bases on the moon. And of course, they'll kill
anyone who finds this out.
Nothing too remarkable in any of that, is there? :)
--
Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
"The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
- Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!ziff!operator
From: operator@ziff.com (Reply to markp@zis.ziff.comm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Fireball???
Message-ID: <1992Feb26.162743.162@ziff.com>
Date: 26 Feb 92 20:27:42 GMT
Organization: Ziff-Davis, Medford MA
Lines: 18
Hi all,
Just a quick one:
I heard a quick mention on a local radio station here in Boston of a
'fireball' seen in the sky sometime earlier this week, or last weekend.
I believe the reporter said it had been seen by people in 3 states, and
I thought it was in the Carolina's, but don't hold me to that.
It was mentioned that there was still no explaination of what it was.
Did anyone else hear or read anything about this???
Please post any info, NO email.
Thanks,
Markp
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!adelphi!ijameson
From: ijameson@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Iain Jameson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Shriek of the Looney --Part One--
Message-ID: <ijameson.699156562@adelphi>
Date: 27 Feb 92 02:09:22 GMT
References: <6274@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> <1992Feb20.025553.10602@cbnewsd.att.com>
Sender: news@ucs.adelaide.edu.au
Lines: 33
Nntp-Posting-Host: adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au
press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
>I thought the Pleidians were duped by the purple shades of
>grey whom introduced decaf into their coffee magazines(storage
>areas) without their knowledge. The loss of buzz caused the
>Pleid's to grow soft and lazy, wherein the PSoG were able to
>chase them off the planet and inhabit it themselves.
>Thus the Pleid's ran into planet earth, where they cultivated
>their precious brew once again. Many eons later did they
>realize what happened to them, and decided to develop humans
>to guard their magazines against further sabatoge by the
>now Gray shades of Purple who were once the Purple shades of
>Grey before the poles flipped on the Plaeidian planet they took
>over.
>But I could be wrong.
>barry--
No, that's what the Reptiods want you to think.
Did I mention the role of the Reptoids? Not to
worry, you will learn all there is to know about
Reptiods in part 29 of "The Shriek of the Looney".
Send me your money. Decaf was not introduced until
galactic year 501 after the unification. The effect
was quite nasty. A number of star systems were
destroyed by the Pleiadians in their attempt to find
a full bodied coffee. Not even the Purple Shades of
Grey stooped so low as to decaf the coffee, probably
because they did not think of it. But then, what would
a tea drinker know about coffee and its effect on higher
life forms?
Iain.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!cbnewsd!press2
From: press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Shriek of the Looney --Part One--
Summary: coffee wars and croissants
Message-ID: <1992Feb27.025748.4989@cbnewsd.att.com>
Date: 27 Feb 92 02:57:48 GMT
References: <6274@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> <ijameson.699156562@adelphi>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 26
In article <ijameson.699156562@adelphi>, ijameson@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Iain Jameson) writes:
>
> No, that's what the Reptiods want you to think.
> Did I mention the role of the Reptoids? Not to
> worry, you will learn all there is to know about
> Reptiods in part 29 of "The Shriek of the Looney".
> Send me your money. Decaf was not introduced until
> galactic year 501 after the unification. The effect
> was quite nasty. A number of star systems were
> destroyed by the Pleiadians in their attempt to find
> a full bodied coffee. Not even the Purple Shades of
> Grey stooped so low as to decaf the coffee, probably
> because they did not think of it. But then, what would
> a tea drinker know about coffee and its effect on higher
> life forms?
>
> Iain.
Damn, my reference, _Complete and Comprehensive history of the
Inter-Galactic Coffee and Croissant Wars of the 3rd Nebula_ by
Reambut Doobtwister ISBN 009 435 800 4941-000 000 000.243 000.
This guy went out of his way in the introduction to disavow any
connection to Reptoids, and disclaimed himself too. Who can you
trust? Cost me 1400 zekebots too!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!jwt!gary
From: bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Date: 26 Feb 92 21:44:06 GMT
Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login)
Organization: The Matrix
Lines: 43
This is to all those who think I am nuts or just playing a
vicious joke on you all. I AM the guy who jumped onto the live
set of KNBC in 1987 and held a toy gun to the head of Consumer
Advocate David Horowitz, and forced him to read a statement on
live tv about how the CIA and alien forces had taken over my
family and replaced them with clones of some kind. I DID it
not out of insanity, but out of desperation, having had exhausted
all "normal" means of aquiring relief from the devious things that
were happening to my family and friends and the people around me.
I have since learned that these things have been demonic in
nature, and HAVE involved the secret government behind the U.S.
government. I HAVE had angels sent by God trying to save me, and
one of these DID take the place of my mom in an effort to save my
family. YES, I KNOW how it sounds, but I swear that it is
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, which is
what I SHOULD have said five years ago at a trial which didn't
take place. I plea bargained my way out of a felony charge, and
have suffered greatly for my actions.
Now, I know this is ridiculous, impossible, and so forth, to
believe to the "average" person, but it IS the truth! I am
currently in the process of writing a book about the whole thing,
titled, "The Invasion of the Human Race" which is pretty
appropriate. I have an account on GEnie, and if any of you
frequent it, you might want to check out the Writers BB, Cat 4,
Top 29 for my "column". I also have an account on Compuserve, but
it has expired. I am going to be renewing it soon as well.
Please believe me when I say that these things are all serious and
quite serious as well. I have tried to tell you what has been
happening in the quickest (although perhaps not the best) means
possible. This is due to these forces still being present around
me here in LA and active. However, (know how this sounds!) God IS
bringing the matter to a close. I have a personal relationship
with Him, something I never thought possible myself in my youth,
and He is taking care of things. The stuff about Jesus and other
dimensions is the honest truth. It will take a whole book to just
tell what happened with all that in the past few weeks! Anyways,
feel free to write to my address if you would like more info on
any part of this. Or, if you are on GEnie, I am G.STOLLMAN. Take
care, and I will give you more details when possible.
Gary Stollman
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbfsb!cbnewsc!chapin
From: chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin )
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb27.041703.9683@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>
Date: 27 Feb 92 04:17:03 GMT
References: <RJC.92Feb25091320@brodie.cstr.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Hickory Ridge - Lisle, IL
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Richard Caley writes:
>Tom Chapin writes:
>> And just who gets to define what is ordinary and what is extraordinary?
>
>Whoever you are trying to convince, obviously.
>You don't have to produce extrodinary proof unless you wish people who
>find your claims extrodinary to believe you.
Oh. So which claims are ordinary and which are extraordinary is
not something that can be decided with scientific objectivity, but
only with biased subjectivity. Thank you. I was wondering how
scientists decided such things. Turns out to be exactly the same
way as those they claim to oppose.
--
tom chapin tjc@hrccb.att.com
Path: ns-mx!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb26.210311.20023@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Date: 26 Feb 92 21:03:11 GMT
References: <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com>
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dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:
|>Alright, everyone...if you wanted my opinion in the first place, I figure
|>that now's the best time to give it, after I've had a good chance to peruse
|>the images.
|>I've spent about 30-45 minutes studying both the non-enhanced and the
|>enhanced blow-up photos of the "face on Mars". And IMHO, there is NO
|>I repeat, NO significant evidence that suggests that the potential facial
|>features are symmetrical in nature, and the pattern of shadows appears
|>to be a one-sided effect that leaves much too much to the imagination
|>to be considered anything more than a natural formation.
have you seen both images?
|>In other words, there probably isn't a right-hand side to the face, and
|>the remainder boils down to three small hills, off-center, on a larger
|>hill that obscures part of the side in shadow.
|>No big deal.
OK, what odds would *you* give me?
|>I may be wrong, but at this point, that's my opinion, and hey, that's what
|>opinions are all about, now isn't it.
I don't know what it is, but I think the possibility that they are artifacts
is real enough that I will take bets with attractive odds.
josh
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From: geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz (Geoff McCaughan)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Face on Mars FAQ posting
Message-ID: <cN3PgB3w164w@satori.equinox.gen.nz>
Date: 26 Feb 92 10:50:47 GMT
References: <87LZGMC@zelator.in-berlin.de>
Organization: The Equinox Network CHCH NZ (Node SATORI)
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leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
> Hmm,
> I think You forgot to mention, that there are nearby the face (15 Km away) a
> "pyramids", which are more interesting, than the "face", because such
> rectangular and symetrical shadows can only be produced by something artifici
> We should focus onto the "pyramids" in our discussion , because the face coul
> also be a "well" illuminated mountain !
So could the pyramids.
Grab a dictionary, look up 'ventifact', this will give you a clue.
Finding one could be trickier, try a museum in a large city, or a text
on geology/geography. If you see one, you might understand those
pictures better.
The museum here has a nice one from Antartica on display.
Be very careful with assertions like "can only be produced by something
artificial", there may be a mundane explanation ready to jump out and
surprise you.
| Geoff - Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 (4 Lines)
| Email: geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz
| "If I post something lucid, is that satorial eloquence?"
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From: dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb27.064922.2784@csi.compuserve.com>
Date: 27 Feb 92 06:49:22 GMT
References: <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com> <1992Feb26.210311.20023@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
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Josh,
You really want me to give you odds?
Well, to answer your question, I HAVE seen both of the images...(and in
addition, the images from a book called "The Face on Mars" that I picked
up in the library. If you want to see enhanced images, THAT book has
images that are INCREDIBLY over-enhanced.)
And the odds that I would give you AGAINST this particular photo being
a pre-shaped, alien artifact are along the order of 10,000,000 to 1.
The largest doundation for that being, simply put, that they just don't LOOK
like they HAVE to be an artifact. Granted, there is a SLIM possiblity
that it COULD be non-natural in origin, but there is NO significant evidence
that I can see in either of the photos that indicates that there is symmetry
between the two sides, or that the effect is anything more than just
shadows.
Try this, try looking at the images from a completely different angle,
say, upside down or sideways,and THEN try to see if theere appears to be a
complete symmetry formed.
Sorry, bud...just don't see it.
Be seeing you...(and probably not IT! <g>)
--
David "Maelstrom" Zecchini | "It may be better to be a live jackal
dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com | than a dead lion, but it is better still
dzecchin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | to be a live lion. And usually easier."
maelstro@bluemoon.rn.com | -Robert A. Heinlein
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From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Whole Mars Face Off
Message-ID: <1992Feb26.130853.1604@tcom.stc.co.uk>
Date: 26 Feb 92 13:08:53 GMT
References: <1992Feb18.005629.879@pages.com> <1992Feb20.045921.17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca> <jms.07if@vanth.UUCP>
Sender: news@tcom.stc.co.uk (System Administration)
Reply-To: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)
Organization: STC Telecomms, New Southgate, London, N11 1HB
Lines: 10
Hi people,
This is a quick digression from the debate.
Jose Arguelles, in his book "The Mayan Factor" mentions a proposal by
Japanese-American artist, Isamu Noguchi. He wanted to build a sculpture, a mile
wide, of a face looking skyward. It was never built but the title of it was to
be "The Sculpture to be Seen from Mars". And this happened 29 years before the
Viking probe had photographed the Mars face.
Pat
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From: lestat@buengf.bu.edu (alexander aranyosi)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <99412@bu.edu.bu.edu>
Date: 27 Feb 92 07:32:59 GMT
References: <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu>
Sender: news@bu.edu.bu.edu
Reply-To: lestat@buengf.bu.edu (alexander aranyosi)
Followup-To: sci.space
Organization: College of Engineering, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
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Xref: ns-mx sci.space:27113 alt.paranormal:4521 alt.alien.visitors:4694 sci.skeptic:21091
In article <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu> gerry@cs.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:
>In article <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> Frank T Lofaro <fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
> While it would
> be crazy to say that all or most psychotics are really possessed by
> demons, it is *perfectly reasonable* to say or believe that some or many
> of them are. If someone gets possessed by a demon (which I *do* believe
> happens, though not very often), they will appear to unenlightened
> science to be mentally ill. Modern science does not comprehend, nor is
> it intended to explain, phenomina that deal with non-physical entities,
> such as demons. Scientists do not understand the soul, spirits, and
> demons and how they affect what appears to them to be the "real" world.
Ok... let us take schizophrenia as an example. Schizophrenia occurs in one
out of every 100 people. In the present population, that amounts to about
50 million people worldwide. Assume for the moment that some cases of
schizophrenia are caused by demon possession. Even if the percentage of
cases is incredibly small, a large number of people would be possessed
by demons. However, it has been shown that schizophrenia can be "cured"
(I use quotes, because stopping treatment causes a relapse) by treatment
with dopamine, a neurotransmitter. Thus we can assume that some of these
cases of demon possession (assuming that this form of insanity happens
often enough to make it worth talking about at all) have been cured by
dopamine treatment. The actual method by which dopamine cures schizophrenia
has not been established; it is only known that it works. Since science
can be described as the task of naming and explaning things, it seems just
as reasonable to attribute the original problem to "demons" as to a "chemical
imbalance" (which, really, does not explain the problem any better than the
word "demons"). Thus we can say that demons and/or a chemical imbalance
cause schizophrenia. Dopamine cures schizophrenia. So dopamine counteracts
the action of either the demons or the chemical imbalance. My point is that
the word "demons" is just another way of saying "something scientific
research hasn't explained yet," so it works just as well as "a chemical
imbalance" or "the oogily monster" to describe the problem. Another good
example is gravity; as far as I am aware, no one knows the exact cause of
gravitational attraction. It could be caused by a thousand demons inhaling
at the same time. Because we can predict and model the effect of gravity
in any situation, it falls under the realm of science. The point of
science is not "can we explain the reason behind every event that happens?";
that is left to philosophers. The point of science is "can we explain
HOW an event happens, and can we predict its occurrence in the future?"
The existence or nonexistence of demons have absolutely nothing to do
with science.
A.J. Aranyosi
lestat@buengf.bu.edu
(P.S. I know my handle is the name of a vampire. I didn't pick it myself,
so don't blame me. I personally wanted Wintermute. :)
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From: youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Scott D. Young)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb27.064932.16546@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Date: 27 Feb 92 06:49:32 GMT
References: <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com> <1992Feb26.210311.20023@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
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In <1992Feb26.210311.20023@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes:
>dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:
>I don't know what it is, but I think the possibility that they are artifacts
>is real enough that I will take bets with attractive odds.
>josh
A question...if they are left by some long-dead civilization, why is it
we only found a face, and not football stadiums or cities or nuclear
reactors? I mean, if you are going to build something, and you can only
build one "something" of such huge size (time/effort constraints, whatever)
how many people would build a face that only hypothetical "aliens" (as in
non-Martians) could see? If someone in the government said, "Let's not
build all those bombers, but a 200 mile long bust of Elvis," you know what
they'd do to him? They'd chase him up a tree and set fire to it.
Such blatant stupidity and waste of resources *could* explain why these
Martians aren't around anymore, though. (OK, maybe one- Dan Quayle.) :)
Scott Young
youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!claris!szebra!spectrx!system
From: system@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: jpeg viewer required
Message-ID: <gZDsgB1w165w@spectrx.saigon.com>
Date: 27 Feb 92 04:50:51 GMT
References: <1992Feb21.093852.22818@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca
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degnans@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Easter Beagle) writes:
> So now we've got a ufo ftp site.
>
> All the pictures are in jpeg format!
>
> So how's 'bout a jpeg viewer from someone?
since jpeg is a 24bit color type file, on the pc there is not a viewer
for it(other than image alchemy). but what you might want is
gif2jpg and jpg2gif, so you can view them with your favorite gif viewer.
you can get that from
listserv@spectrx.saigon.com
send a message containing
/GET /public/ibm/graphics/gifjpg.zip
the file is approx 77k and is for the IBM PC/MS-Dos
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Anderer, System Operator system@spectrx.saigon.com
SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1 408 252 1005 szebra!spectrx!system
NO MORE BUSH! Write in Cuomo for '92! NO MORE BUSH!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: airships [was: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets]
Message-ID: <jms.07kb@vanth.UUCP>
Date: 26 Feb 92 18:27:32 GMT
References: <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu> <1992Feb25.044729.1040@cbnewsd.att.com>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 22
In article <1992Feb25.044729.1040@cbnewsd.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
>I used to be an avid UFO buff for at least 10 years straight('68-78')
>approximately. I remember reading about sightings of dirigibles in the
>mid to late 1800's before they were manufactured and used.
>If this is accurate, they first appeared in modern times in the form
>of airships or zeppelins. It wasn't until mid 1940'(?) they were sighted
>as flying discs near Mt. Ranier in Washington state.
>Any support?
The odd thing about the airship sightings of the late 1800s is that a lot
of them included *human* occupants, and there were reports of humans
claiming to have built them. There was a series about the phenomenon in
the May, June, and July 1973 issues of Fate.
Has anyone heard of C.A.A. Dellschau or a secret society called NYMZA,
other than through the Fate articles?
--
* From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | "They don't tell me
Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | nothin', so I find
37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | out all I can."
Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Phil Collins)
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From: kirkm@hotcity.COM (Kirk Marcroft)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?
Message-ID: <kirkm.0eql@hotcity.COM>
Date: 27 Feb 92 09:05:48 GMT
References: <11158@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>
Organization: BBS
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In article <11158@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>, tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl
Neustaedter) writes:
>In article <_kdhl0mnoring@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>> [ Skepticism about devils ]
>> (WARNING: I just can't take it anymore - it's been building for a long time -
>
>> this was the straw that broke the camels back! I got to get on my soapbox an
>d
>> get it off my chest.)
>>
>> The rest of us, including me, should maintain a healthy, not an unhealthy
>> skepticism about alternative scientific theories.
>> [...healthy vs unhealthy skepticism...]
>> And why do I say this? Well, it's pretty obvious from reading many postings
>> on Usenet that many (but not all) scientists and engineers are fairly
>> intolerant (read: hostile) of ideas and theories that run counter to what
>> they were taught and now believe.
>
>There is a reason for this hostility. The random theories presented are
>frequently supplied by someone who doesn't know what he is talking about,
>and the hostile person will sometimes know more than a little about the
>subject being discussed. It can be very frustrating to deal with someone
>who claims to be able to invalidate centuries of work with a grandiose idea,
>and hasn't bothered to read as much as an elementary text in the subject
>being discussed.
>
>Ideas are a dime a dozen. Crackpots produce ideas by the gross tonne.
>Science, and indeed, knowledge itself, is not ideas. It is validated
>facts and mathematical relationships between cause and effect allowing
>accurate predictions to be generated.
>
>Anything less is simply useful for fertilizing petunias. Indistinguishable
>from what comes out of the south end of a north-bound steer.
>
>When someone has a fantastic idea about the structure of the universe,
>he/she/it should spend some time to determine whether this new idea
>violates any of the existing knowledge our society has built up in the
>past several centuries. If it does, perhaps what it violates should be
>re-examined; but until that happens, the new idea is useless. Note that
>re-examined means re-measuring whatever result you don't like; if said
>re-examination produces the same result, your idea has already failed.
>
>Presuming the new idea doesn't violate any existing knowledge (this will
>probably take several years to determine); Differences between what the
>new idea predicts and what the standard model (of whatever you are
>replacing) predicts should be determined. These will probably be tiny
>effects that will be difficult to observe - otherwise we would have seen
>them before. Then you should design and execute an experiment which
>tests the realms where the two models differ. This should take you
>several more years. At this point, you can publish.
>
>So much for what you should do; This group will never be used in that
>context. This group is for people arrogant enough to believe that they
>can, without detailed knowledge of a subject, use sheer inspiration to
>out-do everyone who came before them, who actually bothered to understand
>what they were dealing with. This group is for conspiracy theorists who
>believe that studying existing science will "pollute" them and destroy
>their inspiration. This group is for people who believe in fairies and
>divine inspiration being supreme over observation, math and hard work.
>
>Does that sound hostile? It should.
>
>Now, if you want to discuss new theories, discuss:
> a) The solar neutrino problem. There was a recent paper addressing
> this that hasn't made it out to the general press yet. What does
> it say, and what are it's potential flaws?
> b) Supernova mechanics. There are some known problems with the existing
> supernova model, which were brought to light by Sanduleak -69.202
> c) Developments in merging quantum mechanics with gravity; There have
> been attempts, what have they involved, and what are their flaws?
> Which changes have recently cropped up?
> d) Cosmology; big-bang vs cyclic vs other; What evidence points to
> which theories, what flaws do they have. What work has been done
> in getting a big-bang to produce a non-isotropic universe?
>
>(my interest in astronomy is showing).
>
> e) High-temeperature superconductivity in doped CuO ceramics. Changes
> to the BCS theory to accomodate these superconductors - news about
> work to determine if phonons are involved in these superconductors.
>
>If some of the potential changes or new theories are your own, so much the
>better. But if you have a theory on supernovas and don't know what the
>Chandrasekhar limit is, expect to get hammered.
>--
> Tarl Neustaedter tarl@sw.stratus.com
> Marlboro, Mass. Stratus Computer
>Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
60
You are obviously an egotist! Who's to stuck on him self to concider other
peoples idea's. I consider any Idea to be valid. It is people like you that
pass over potential brake thruoughs using excuses like "that will never lead
any were!, we've tried that don't bother!, It will never work!". A good
example of this was the Magnetic Uranium Inrichment proccess that was given up
on back in the 50's by the American Gov. So what happens?! Iraq picks up the
idea about 15 years ago and inproves on it! so that it's efficient and
practical!
Yes I think if some one is going so far as to publish their idea that they do
need to support it with some kind of theory that can be broven in part.
As for radical idea's here's one that will likely choke most of you hard core
dogma types(as above). This is part of a theory that I hope to publish one
day. The basic idea involves extending the periodic table in to the 4th
demension. Why?. It would explain why matter is unstable at the top of the
periodic table as it stands now.
Wookie
P.S. It's people like you that made the dark ages popular and tried to stop
some one like Neuton!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!ogicse!orstcs!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!zzzk
From: zzzk@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Ken Eshelby)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <zzzk.699178139@jacobs>
Date: 27 Feb 92 08:08:59 GMT
References: <1992Feb24.143307.3907@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb25.003324.11881@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com>
Sender: usenet@CS.ORST.EDU
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept
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Nntp-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu
dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:
>Alright, everyone...if you wanted my opinion in the first place, I figure
>that now's the best time to give it, after I've had a good chance to peruse
>the images.
>IMHO, there is NO
>I repeat, NO significant evidence that suggests that the potential facial
>features are symmetrical in nature, and the pattern of shadows appears
>to be a one-sided effect that leaves much too much to the imagination
>to be considered anything more than a natural formation.
But, how can you just dismiss it? If you can't see what the shadow
hides, how do you, or don't you know that there is a face, with
pupils (says Hoagland), and the whole sha-bang?.
>In other words, there probably isn't a right-hand side to the face, and
^^^^^^^^
That sounds like the speculation that proponents of the face use..
>No big deal.
to you...
>I may be wrong, but at this point, that's my opinion, and hey, that's what
>opinions are all about, now isn't it.
That's exactly right.
It seems everyone is caught up on this face thing, and seem to regard
the rest of the unusual objects on Cydonia, LIKE: what about the
complex that seems to be east of the face mesa? The whole city
fascinated me. Was that all hooey? Even the "Fort" and the "D&M
Pyramid" and the calculations of the rise of the summer solstice with
the cliff as a flat back drop, could be a result of a low res picture.
But what if it's not? Isn't taking the chance to go back and get better
resolution photo's worth it? I think THAT was Hoagland's point. If we
never ask, "What if?" then I guess we could just dismiss everything into
non-existence.
>Be seeing you...
On Mars, I hope!
-ken
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From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Video-Photo-Documents Part3
Message-ID: <112594.29ACCC9D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 27 Feb 92 07:20:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ
Lines: 24
In a message to All <24 Feb 92 12:01> Steve Urich wrote:
SU> So... Anybody seen these documents? They look pretty ratty,
SU> if I feel like it I'll weed thru it and see if anything is
SU> worth typing up. I just found this folder of all the UFO
SU> goodies that I had filed away since I got it back in 1987.
Hi Steve. I don't know about the documents, but I have 5 GIFs on my BBS that ostensibly show an alien in a case of some kind. The GIF files were captured some time ago from a video of the specimen. It is the ghastliest little thing I've seen in a long, long time.
But having said that -- it looks familiar, doesn't it?? Jim Schaffer & I had some conversations about it on my board ... we both think it's fake (or a terrestial life-form, anyway). But I can't for the life of me remember what it is. For some reason, I keep thinking it's a seahorse -- the largest species can get a couple of feet long. But the pictures I have don't resemble the seahorse ... so there we are.
Please let us know if you succeed in identifying it.
Best,
Clark
--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews
From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part2
Message-ID: <112595.29ACCCA0@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Date: 27 Feb 92 07:27:00 GMT
Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ
Lines: 135
In a message to All <24 Feb 92 12:01> Steve Urich wrote:
SU> My Review on the Satellite Photograph of a UFO.
SU> First the Advertisement:
SU> A first time ever SATELLITE PHOTOGRAPH OF A U.F.O. with
SU> documented authentication!
SU> This photograph was taken by a weather satellite, making it the
SU> only OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT satellite photo ever released of a U.F.O! People
SU> in the U.S. government call this photograph "IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE THAT
SU> U.F.O's EXIST!!"
Steve, I think it's GREAT that you're obtaining and critiquing these UFO kits -- could you supply the addresses of the people who offer them?
Obviously your reviews of the Alien picture and the Satellite UFO affadavits convey a big caveat emptor -- but if you could supply the name/address of the people offering these kits, we could be sure of what we're getting.
I've got a lot of old Rex Research stuff here -- it's not about alien.visitors but is about Alternate Technology. Maybe I could contribute some crits of this stuff -- which varies from interesting to laughable.
Thanks!
Clark
SU> See the U.F.O as being V-shaped in the front and rectangular in
SU> the rear, with a port vision, and four contrails. See the U.F.O flying
SU> at 5000 miles per hour, while climbing out of the atmosphere. The Earth
SU> is viewed in the background, documenting its presence!
SU> THIS IS CONCLUSIVE PROOF THAT U.F.O'S EXIST!!
SU> The satellite photo will cone to you, complete with one glossy
SU> size 8"x10" color picture of the U.F.O., and all supporting AUTHENTICATED
SU> DOCUMENTS.
SU> DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARENTEE, IF NOT AS ADVERTISED HEREIN!!
SU> My Review Comment:
SU> SO!!! HAHAHAHA..... Well I did get a glossy 8"x10" picture of
SU> a flying `Baseball HomeBase Plate' :-) There wasn't much color in the
SU> color picture mostly some grayscale `blue-white'. I personnally don't
SU> know what it is and to me it might just might be something so...
SU> here is what the AUTHENTICATED DOCUMENTS say :-).
SU> ---------------------------STARTING DOCS-----------------------------
SU> Mid-America Remote sensing Center
SU> Murray State Univ, Murray, KY
SU> Oct 31, 1985
SU> To Whom It May Concern:
SU> The image in question appears to be the output of a satellite
SU> remote sensing device. To the best of my knowledge the information
SU> depicted on the image in question is authentic.
SU> Thomas C. Kind, PhD.
SU> Professor
SU> Dept. of Geosciences
SU> #2
SU> To Whom It May Concern:
SU> On the eveing of Oct 30, 1985, I examined an electronic negative image
SU> which appears to be a genuine, untampered, unretouched image.
SU> Stephen J Robertson
SU> Owner, Robertson's Creative Photography
SU> #3
SU> Southeast Missouri State Univ.
SU> Cape Girardeau, Missouri
SU> Friday, Nov 1, 1985
SU> To Whom It May Concern:
SU> I am Professor of Physics (highest rank) at Southeast Missouri
SU> State Univ. hold tenure, and served as chairman of the department of
SU> physics for nearly twenty years. I have not served as chairman for about
SU> three years.
SU> I have held several offices in state science organizations,
SU> including the office of President of the Missouri Academy of Science and
SU> President of the American Association of
SU> Physics Teachers, Missouri Section.
SU> Dr Harley D. Rutledge
SU> (Notice the above person never mentions the Photograph :-)
SU> #4
SU> Southeast Missouri State Univ.
SU> Cape Girardeau, Missouri
SU> Nov 1, 1985
SU> To whom it may concern:
SU> I have examined the imagery of concern to Dr. Rutledge.
SU> The background terrain appears to match a portion of irregular
SU> coastline and associated islands centered approximately 40 kilometers
SU> southwest of Vladivostok, U.S.S.R., in the vicinity of latitude 43deg
SU> N; longitude 331deg E.
SU> ?. Ray Knox
SU> Professor of Geology
SU> ==============================EOT DOCS===============================
SU> --
SU> ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP
SU> |"Starlightbeams project ###############
SU> ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me
SU> in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
SU> ###############----------------------|Ve
SU> ###############----------------------|Ve SU> #### #### snark!beyonet!beyo
SU> |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
SU> ## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo
SU> |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
SU> ##
SU> ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
SU> #### ####Amateur Radio Packet:
SU> WB3FTP@WA3NWL.PA.USA.NOAM#### ####
SU> _###############_________________________
SU> ###############_________________________
SU> --- ConfMail V4.00
SU> * Origin: Paranet(sm) - The world's leading UFO Investigative
--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <6015@shodha.enet.dec.com>
Date: 27 Feb 92 13:58:29 GMT
Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 25
In article <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes...
>
> This is to all those who think I am nuts or just playing a
>vicious joke on you all. I AM the guy who jumped onto the live
Gary,
Everything you have written in this file proves that you are
either a RAVING MAD MAN or an utter FRAUD. Personally I believe
that you believe what you are writing but I also believe you are
a complete lunatic. You need help desperatly.
You are not going to find any believers here in the world of
reality which you apparently have no concept of. I would suggest
you find a good shrink and work real hard on getting a grip on
yourself.
Steve Food_for_the_Grays
P.S I have a coworker who claims that he is the original Gary
Stollman and you are a clone that went bad and escaped from the
local Clone demolition planet and that you should be Soylent
Green right now.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb27.164032.27539@zoo.toronto.edu>
Date: 27 Feb 92 16:40:32 GMT
References: <GERRY.92Feb20111817@onion.cmu.edu <0dcypv_00Vp2IEwUlL@andrew.cmu.edu> <GERRY.92Feb21104653@onion.cmu.edu> <99412@bu.edu.bu.edu>
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Lines: 8
Xref: ns-mx sci.space:27122 alt.paranormal:4525 alt.alien.visitors:4703 sci.skeptic:21099
In article <99412@bu.edu.bu.edu> lestat@buengf.bu.edu (alexander aranyosi) writes:
>Ok... let us take schizophrenia as an example...
Can this discussion PLEASE be taken out of sci.space? It has lost whatever
tenuous connection it ever had to spaceflight.
--
The X Window system is not layered, and | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
it was not designed. -Shane P. McCarron | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb
From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <1992Feb27.165004.21345@tcom.stc.co.uk>
Date: 27 Feb 92 16:50:04 GMT
Sender: news@tcom.stc.co.uk (System Administration)
Organization: BNR Europe, New Southgate, London. N11 1HB.
Lines: 18
Greetings Earthlings,
Jim Shaeffer (I think) recently wondered whether the mandelbrot crop
circle which appeared in England last year was a hoax. I cannot prove it was or
was not but here is part of what the magazine, "Kindred Spirit" (Winter 1991)
has to say on it:
"...Farming neighbours recorded the formation on cine film; they were
convinced it could not have been hoaxed, the corn had been flattened evenly,
there were single stems of standing wheat between the circles, there were no
footmarks or signs of machinery..."
Pat
--
Patrick Brosnan. <patb@tcom.stc.co.uk> || ...!mcsun!ukc!stc!patb
Northern Telecomm, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB. Phone : +44 81 945 2135
"In Lake'ch (I am another yourself)" - Mayan code of honour.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb
From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Recent juvenile posts
Message-ID: <1992Feb27.165934.21505@tcom.stc.co.uk>
Date: 27 Feb 92 16:59:34 GMT
References: <16da2e88@nacjack.gen.nz>
Sender: news@tcom.stc.co.uk (System Administration)
Reply-To: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan)
Organization: STC Telecomms, New Southgate, London, N11 1HB
Lines: 9
In article <16da2e88@nacjack.gen.nz> richard@nacjack.gen.nz (Richard Vowles) writes:
>
>Regarding the recent posts from various members of Dimension BBS that
>pass through this BBS, they have been spoken to and will refrain from
>doing it in the future.
>
I hope it was quick and painless.
Pat
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!aero.org!robert
From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Feb27.180500.3855@aero.org>
Date: 27 Feb 92 18:05:00 GMT
References: <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Sender: news@aero.org
Organization: Ssaymssik Inc.
Lines: 9
In article <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:
>
> [inanities ommitted]
>
Stollman, you are a LUNATIC. PLEASE commit yourself to an institution
before you hurt yourself or anyone else.
RS
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!aero.org!robert
From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Feb27.181126.4111@aero.org>
Date: 27 Feb 92 18:11:26 GMT
References: <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Sender: news@aero.org
Organization: Ssaymssik Inc.
Lines: 6
In article <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:
>
> [psychotic babbling ommitted]
>
Stollman, you are a RAVING LUNATIC.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!mcnc!duke!jek
From: jek@duke.cs.duke.edu (this space for rent)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Fireball???
Message-ID: <699210582@juliet.cs.duke.edu>
Date: 27 Feb 92 17:09:43 GMT
References: <1992Feb26.162743.162@ziff.com>
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.
Lines: 26
In article <1992Feb26.162743.162@ziff.com> operator@ziff.com (Reply to markp@zis.ziff.comm) writes:
>
>I heard a quick mention on a local radio station here in Boston of a
>'fireball' seen in the sky sometime earlier this week, or last weekend.
>I believe the reporter said it had been seen by people in 3 states, and
>I thought it was in the Carolina's, but don't hold me to that.
>It was mentioned that there was still no explaination of what it was.
>Did anyone else hear or read anything about this???
I didn't see it.
But, in March of 1989, I did see most of the northern part of the sky
turn blood red, with a large white 'V' with its vertex just above the
horizon and the open part close to the zenith.
Pretty freaky, if you ask me.
Of course, it turned out to just be the effects of unusually strong
atmospheric ionization (?) and the V was a couple of jet contrails.
This particular atmospheric disturbance caused sightings of the aurora
borealis all the way down to Jamaica, as I recall. Pretty nifty.
--
James Kittock -- Class of 92 -- Computer Science/Mathematics, Duke University
jek@cs.duke.edu | mcnc!duke!jek | PO Box 5750, Duke Station, Durham, NC 27706
I would gladly risk feeling bad, if only I could taste my dessert. - Data
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!ukma!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy
From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part1
Keywords: Review Footage
Message-ID: <1992Feb24.172432.4575@anasaz>
Date: 24 Feb 92 17:24:32 GMT
References: <286@beyonet.UUCP>
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az
Lines: 30
In article <286@beyonet.UUCP> beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) writes:
... stuff introducing the Meiers film deleted ...
->
-> See dematerialization and rematerialization of the U.F.O. See the
->strange light shift that occurs during the tranformation! See a UFO as big
->as a HOUSE hovering above a well traveled hightway! Hear the sound of this
Watch the tree branches, not the UFO, during this sequence. The splice
can be seen very easily with the naked eye. The "light shift" and sudden
jump of the branches shows the change in lighting and wind conditions
between the two sequences. Also, in other sequences, watch the cloud patterns
in the background to see where splices occur.
->They ruled out trick photography because of the more then 1/120 second
->frame speed of the dematerialization and rematerialization. It couldn't
->be done so that part was true. They ruled out the saucer on a string by
Horn swoggle. This particular sequence was a large part of why Mr. Meiers
was discredited. As decribed above, changes in "swaying" branches and
lighting conditions from one frame to the next are indicitive of splicing,
not magic. What's "true" is that the film was altered.
... more horn swoggle deleted ...
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part2
Message-ID: <293@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 27 Feb 92 20:26:27 GMT
References: <112595.29ACCCA0@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 100
Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) writes:
>Steve, I think it's GREAT that you're obtaining and critiquing these UFO kits -- could you supply the addresses of the people who offer them?
Sure can but let me warn you this stuff was purchased back around 1987.
I'm surprised you didn't get any UFO junk from them I'm sure you did.
I bought a book out of a magazine, somehow they got my last name mispelled.
So everytime I see my last name mispelled that way I know it was Junk mail
for UFO and even New Age mailorder places. I think they might have turned
to NewAge `warez' :-). I haven't seen any UFO junkmail in a while here is
the address. Ask them for the UFO catalog I guess.
Book Brokers
P.O. Box 13924
Orlando, FLA 32859
The last catalog I got from them I think was when I bought the
Video/Photo/Document Kit from them.
They have loads of stuff, books, UFO audio Tapes of UFO witnesses,
Investigators and Researchers.
Here is a list of the Audio Tapes:
Ann Druffel- Southern California Straight Line Mystery in UFO Sightings
Stanton Friedman- Fact, Fiction, and Flying Saucers
Richard Haines- Photo Analysis of an Alleged UFO
Cynthia Hind- African Tribal Reaction to UFO's
Alan Holt- UFO Propulsion; Pulsed radiator nad Crystalline Structure
J. Allen Hynek- The case angainst "ET"
Bill Moore- UFO's ...Most Highly Classified Subject
Richard Neal- The Abduction Phenomena
Richard Niemtzow- Physiological Effects from luminous U.A. Phenomena
Jacques Vallee- Techniques for screening UFO reports
Travis Walton- "UFO abductee"
$5.00 Each at the time...
Also a list of tapes made from the 24th Annual UFO Conference, Burbank, CA
June 12-14 1987
Looks like all of the above were at the conference so I won't waste time
typing the list :-).
Here is a Video List they had:
UFO'S ARE REAL........(90MIN)
UFO: TOP SECRET.......(90MIN)
BEAMSHIP; THE MOVIE FOOTAGE (59MIN)
BEAMSHIP; THE METAL...(45MIN)
BEAMSHIP; THE MEIER CHRONICLES (100MIN)
Beamship; The Metal sounds interesting listen to this:
The remarkable metal specimans delivered to the Swiss contactee be the
Pleiadian cosmonauts represented various states of their spacecraft
developement and contributed conclusive evidence supporting Meier's claims.
Examined by an eminent IBM scientist utilizing an electron scanning
microscope, an unseen world appears through the lens to reveal the amazing
properties of the tiny fragments. Observe the laboratory analysis as it
opens the many secrets of the alien metal. Hear the astonished voice of the
scientists an the mysteries unveil... discover the unusual combination of
metals... the unique purity of substance... and the strange bonding of
material which is impossible to achieve on our planet! These and other
startling findings caused scientists form four major institutions to shake
their heads in astonishment and state publicly, "This metal is NOT of Earth
origin."
>Obviously your reviews of the Alien picture and the Satellite UFO affadavits convey a big caveat emptor -- but if you could supply the name/address of the people offering these kits, we could be sure of what we're getting.
The Satellite Photo is a Real satallite photo, if it wasn't so
symetrical in shape I would have said it was a `freak accident' in
the cloud cover but because of its shape it looks real.
The picture of the Alien looks like a real bad Xerox photo copy of
something :-). I can only go by the dimensions of the body and from
what seems to be a dwarf with long arms a large carcas torso and
short legs.
>I've got a lot of old Rex Research stuff here -- it's not about alien.visitors but is about Alternate Technology. Maybe I could contribute some crits of this stuff -- which varies from interesting to laughable.
Yea sound great, there was a Telsa Coil and Jacobs Latter thread in
sci.electronics a while back.
>Thanks!
> Clark
No Problem! Let the Net know if you get a catalog, maybe there will be some
new stuff available.
Steve
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Documents Part3
Message-ID: <294@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 27 Feb 92 20:46:18 GMT
References: <112594.29ACCC9D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 44
Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) writes:
>In a message to All <24 Feb 92 12:01> Steve Urich wrote:
[My comments deleted]
>Hi Steve. I don't know about the documents, but I have 5 GIFs on my BBS that ostensibly show an alien in a case of some kind. The GIF files were captured some time ago from a video of the specimen. It is the ghastliest little thing I've seen in a long, long time.
If its the same alien specimen here is what the files that I got
say about the the case it is enclosed in.
The containers, which resembled a cross between glass covered funeral
caskets and deep -freeze units, were tailor made to suit the ptimary-
preserve these uniqe bodies for study. These containers operated on the
principles of a cryogenic deep freeze unit, utilizing liquid covers and
vented and exhausted in such a way that it was possible to view the bodies
without opening the special display case. Other specimens were prepared for
ordinary cryogenic storage in teh wrappings and stored in cylinders for
possible future need. In this way these vary unusual and unique bodies of
unkown origin could be preserved indefinitely.
Sounds a bit like the Hollywood UFO movie `Wavelength' doesn't it?
>But having said that -- it looks familiar, doesn't it?? Jim Schaffer & I had some conversations about it on my board ... we both think it's fake (or a terrestial life-form, anyway). But I can't for the life of me remember what it is. For some reason, I keep thinking it's a seahorse -- the largest species can get a couple of feet long. But the pictures I have don't resemble the seahorse ... so there we are.
>
>Please let us know if you succeed in identifying it.
Like I said on the other post, It is impossible to Identify
anything that was Xerox copied a million times because of the bad
resolution decay each time you make a copy. :-)
>Best,
> Clark
Steve
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: More Dead Bodies
Message-ID: <295@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 27 Feb 92 21:20:11 GMT
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 67
Here is another quick Xerox copy of an article about Dead E.T.
Specimens.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Inserted Article-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
4000-YEAR-OLD CORPSE IS REALLY A SPACE ALIEN, SAYS SCIENTIST
By: Alan Trexler
A bandage-wrapped mummy once thought to be that of an Egyptian princess is
actually the corpse of a space alien who died 4,000 years ago, a top Soviet
scientist reports.
Dr. Yury Ustinov told a gathering of researchers in Antwerp, Belguim, that
Xrays of the mummy clearly show that it is not human, even though it had
been touted as such since its discovery in the 1920s.
The creature was only four feet long, he added.
And a metal plate on its chest bears an inscription that strongly suggests
it came from another planet. "the archaeological discovery of the century
has been right under our noses for decades and we didn't even know it,"
said Dr. Ustinov.
Dr. Ustinov told scientists the mummy was obtained from an East German
research facility that had kept it in storage since purchasing it from a
collector in 1962.
It was routinely Xrayed after its arrival in Moscow, he added. And that's
when the excitement began.
"The first thing we noticed was the inscription on a small golden plate on
its chest." said the expert.
"It said:'Amenemon... beloved of pharaoh who came from the stars to command
the chariots of the host... who died in the 106th year of his
life...beloved of Amon...'
"It would appear that the alien Amenemon arrived on Earth from a distant
planet, lived an inordinately long time and was held in the highest esteem
by royalty.
"He must have looked very much out of place," continued Dr. Ustinov.
"Our study shows that he was humaniod. But he had an elongated skull with
distinct bulges over the eyes.
"The hands had six fingers with no fingernails. The brain capacity was very
large." Strangely enough, a gaping chest wound indicates that the alien was
killed by a spear or sword and the skull definitely had been clubbed.
"There's no doubt that he was murdered," said Dr. Ustinov.
"It would be most interesting to find out why."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-End of Article-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Steve
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!news.dfrf.nasa.gov!ra.dfrf.nasa.gov!shafer
From: shafer@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Face on Mars FAQ posting
Message-ID: <SHAFER.92Feb27145209@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov>
Date: 27 Feb 92 22:43:44 GMT
References: <87LZGMC@zelator.in-berlin.de> <cN3PgB3w164w@satori.equinox.gen.nz>
Sender: news@news.dfrf.nasa.gov (Usenet news)
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
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Xref: ns-mx sci.space:27140 alt.alien.visitors:4713 sci.skeptic:21110 alt.paranormal:4526
In-Reply-To: geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz's message of 26 Feb 92 10:50:47 GMT
In article <cN3PgB3w164w@satori.equinox.gen.nz> geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz (Geoff McCaughan) writes:
leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
> Hmm,
> I think You forgot to mention, that there are nearby the face (15 Km away) a
> "pyramids", which are more interesting, than the "face", because such
> rectangular and symetrical shadows can only be produced by something artifici
> We should focus onto the "pyramids" in our discussion , because the face coul
> also be a "well" illuminated mountain !
So could the pyramids.
Grab a dictionary, look up 'ventifact', this will give you a clue.
Finding one could be trickier, try a museum in a large city, or a text
on geology/geography. If you see one, you might understand those
pictures better.
The museum here has a nice one from Antartica on display.
Or a good library with a copy of "Geomorphology from Space: A Global
Overview of Regional Landforms" (NASA SP-486.
Or come look at my slides from our trip to Antarctica--there are only
about 800 of them and most only have short stories to go with them.
A lot of stuff that looks manmade.
Be very careful with assertions like "can only be produced by something
artificial", there may be a mundane explanation ready to jump out and
surprise you.
Or get in an airplane near sunrise or sunset.
Then there's the time I saw a Kelvin-Helmholtz instability in the
clouds, with about 8 of the forms. This looks about as unnatural as
you can imagine (it makes a very regular set of swirls, sort of like
very stylized ocean waves) and probably would really startle someone
who hasn't suffered through fluid mechanics. Sure is pretty.
--
Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov Of course I don't speak for NASA
"There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
"A kill is a kill." Anonymous
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!mcnc!duke!jek
From: jek@duke.cs.duke.edu (this space for rent)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <699223265@globe01.cs.duke.edu>
Date: 27 Feb 92 20:41:06 GMT
References: <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.
Lines: 92
In article <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:
>
> This is to all those who think I am nuts or just playing a
>vicious joke on you all.
Vicious joke? Hell no, this is prime entertainment.
>I AM the guy who jumped onto the live
>set of KNBC in 1987 and held a toy gun to the head of Consumer
>Advocate David Horowitz, and forced him to read a statement on
>live tv about how the CIA and alien forces had taken over my
>family and replaced them with clones of some kind. I DID it
>not out of insanity, but out of desperation, having had exhausted
>all "normal" means of aquiring relief from the devious things that
>were happening to my family and friends and the people around me.
I know what you mean. I tried to get help when I woke up one morning
and realized I was not, in fact, myself, but rather a clone of myself
who had been programmed to act like me. Unfortunately, the real me
found out and came to get me. So I had to defend myself, of course,
except that in the end I wasn't really defending myself, but rather
wound up destroying myself, or rather, what used to be me. In the
end, I just had a beer and everything worked out OK.
>I have since learned that these things have been demonic in
>nature, and HAVE involved the secret government behind the U.S.
>government. I HAVE had angels sent by God trying to save me, and
>one of these DID take the place of my mom in an effort to save my
>family.
Oh yeah, me too. Well, I suppose I should be more specific. I had
angel food cake. Didn't go so hot with the beer, but hey, can't have
everything.
>YES, I KNOW how it sounds, but I swear that it is
>the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, which is
>what I SHOULD have said five years ago at a trial which didn't
>take place.
You forgot the "so help me god" part. So you would have been in deep
trouble at that trial which didn't take place, but might have although
it very well could have gone wrong considering you weren't going to
say the right thing.
> Now, I know this is ridiculous, impossible, and so forth, to
>believe to the "average" person, but it IS the truth!
I don't consider myself an "average" person, but I still think it is
ridiculous, if that helps you gauge your lunacy any.
>I am
>currently in the process of writing a book about the whole thing,
>titled, "The Invasion of the Human Race" which is pretty
>appropriate.
Ooh. How much money do you want me to send you? My VISA number
is 4838 8337 1039 0666; just bill me.
>Please believe me when I say that these things are all serious and
>quite serious as well.
I believe that these things are serious-- a serious sign of someone
who either 1) took too many hallucinogens, 2) went crazy for
non-chemical reasons, or 3) had a hairdryer fall into the tub with
them, but survived.
>God IS
>bringing the matter to a close. I have a personal relationship
>with Him,
Hey, what is this, a smear campaign against "God" now? And I
thought we were done with that now that the Clinton business was
pretty much worn out.
>The stuff about Jesus and other dimensions is the honest truth.
What stuff? I remember stuff about Jesus & bread & fish & the cross.
I missed the part about other dimensions. Was that in Buckaroo Banzai
or something?
>Take care, and I will give you more details when possible.
You do that. I need evidence of my own sanity once in a while.
> Gary Stollman
--Dr. Jekyll
--
James Kittock -- Class of 92 -- Computer Science/Mathematics, Duke University
jek@cs.duke.edu | mcnc!duke!jek | PO Box 5750, Duke Station, Durham, NC 27706
I would gladly risk feeling bad, if only I could taste my dessert. - Data
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ucbvax!stratus.swdc.stratus.com!lpb
From: lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: OIL BARONS SUPPRESS EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES
Message-ID: <9202280005.AA08802@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Date: 28 Feb 92 00:05:35 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Lines: 188
INSIGHTS INTO THE PROPRIETARY SYNDROME
By KEN MacNEILL
Cadake Industries
Winter Haven, Florida
PART I
To give you some background on myself, I have been interested in the
energy situation since I can remember. I have built all kinds of
devices, solar energy panels, windmills, photovoltaic arrays, flywheel
devices, and also carburetors of which I will talk on Sunday. In my
background I am an accomplished tool and diemaker, moldmaker, been
involved in Design Engineering for the past 12 years, primarily in the
automation area.
My first real involvement with other people in this alternate energy
area was at the Toronto Symposium in 1981 where I met George Hathaway as
well as over 100 other people that believe in the impossible according
to orthodox science. Since that time I have made myself aware of just
about everything that is happening in this field, and believe me there
are some really fantastic things going on. The rediscovery of some of
the technology that was lost in the past is finally coming to
realization, for instance the Tesla technology, the Hubbard device, the
Moray approach to tapping into the free energy supply that we're sitting
in without even knowing it.
A friend of mine gave me a real insight possibly without even knowing
it. He said the problem could only be solved by just considering the
problem of weighing a glass of water at 500 feet under water. Here you
are under water with a glass of water: how do you weigh it???
The analogy is the same for us. Here we sit in the vastness of the
cosmos on top of one of the biggest magnets known to us and we are like
the glass of water. We are in the vast ocean of energy. Look around us
and watch just the weather for instance, the next thunderstorm, think of
all the electrical potential being wasted. That energy is there; it is
very real.
Tom Bearden, one of our upcoming speakers, may have illustrated it quite
well by the bird sitting on top of the wire with 13,000 volts going
through it. We all know that it could kill him but it doesn't. I am
positive that within this group will be found the ways and means for making
the energy situation of the future change.
Now to the other side of this coin. Why has'nt this technology been
allowed to become established? We have to look at the 'profit motive'
involved. If we have free energy, how will they charge for it? What
will happen to the billions of dollars that the utilities and oil
companies and the government backing these establishments do if we can
give the people independence from the chains of having to pay for
energy?
One question that has been uppermost in my mind for the last year has
been the rhetoric given by our elected representatives about the energy
situation and the amount of money given to small researchers who could
possibly give us a viable approach to becoming energy independent. Who
gets the government money?? Let me get a little audience participation
in the question. How many of you have all the money you need for
research in the energy area? Everyone who has please stand!!!!! Now
let me mention a few of the names of the companies that get the money.
See if you recognize them: Exxon, Gulf Oil, General Electric,
Westinghouse, TRW, Exide Storage Battery, all manufacturers or producers
of fossil fuel products. We need to get away from the fossil fuels for
the future and get into something that can indeed give us a future
because we are rapidly depleting not only our natural resources but our
air and water. All because of burning fossil fuels. We fund our
universities and colleges in the most directed of ways. If you want to
explore the possibilities in some some of the more esoteric areas, for
instance the ones you will be hearing about in the next three days,
there is no money for that. WHY??? Because of the possibility that we
might succeed. What would our government do if all the American people
could go back and forth to work, heat their homes, run their businesses
without paying taxes on gas and oil? Consider the fact that all of the
gas stations would go out of business or would have to find other ways
of making money. Many complimentary businesses would also fold. But
alas, this is America. What are we here for??? To perpetuate Big
Business, Big Government, or to advance toward the future, not expending
all of our natural resources but to save them to make the goods of the
future. Coal and oil both can be used for making all kinds of things
besides fuels; the list is endless.
It is my feeling that the technology may be already here and may have
been shown to the government. It even may have been introduced to our
patent office and turned down. Because as you know, there is no such
thing as a perpetual motion device. And I agree with the premise
because forever is a long time.
But there are surely some of the devices or parts thereof that have been
introduced to the government or to big business in the past which have
been shelved. Tesla's transmission device is a classic illustration
probably best known to this group. What happened is that they removed
the money from him to do his research and effectively stifled this
remarkable man. How many other times has it happened to someone not so
well known? At this moment, there are over 3,000 devices or
applications in the patent office that have been branded as security or
put under wraps by the secrecy order, Title 35, U.S. Code (1952)
Sections 181-188. What is security? How is it defined? I have had
many inventors or other scientists tell me that they did not want to
discuss their invention with me or others because they might lose it to
us or we might tell someone else before they got it onto the market.
Believe me, it won't get there by going through the patent process. It
is my feeling that if such a device were introduced at this level, then
it would be put under the Secrecy Act. I don't know that I am correct
in this assumption. But I cannot imagine a government like ours wanting
to commit financial suicide. So what better way than to brand something
as a secret?
I would like to read the Secrecy Order to you so that you may better
understand my concern. Please pay close attention. I think it is very
important. To you or anyone!!! Consider your receiving this:
SECRECY ORDER
(Title 35, United States Code (1952), sections 181-188)
NOTICE: To the applicant above named, his heirs, and any and all
of his assignees, attorneys and agents, hereinafter designated
principals:
You are hereby notified that your application as above identified
has been found to contain subject matter, the unauthorized
disclosure of which might be detrimental to the national security,
and you are ordered in nowise to publish or disclose the invention
or any material information with respect thereto, including
hitherto unpublished details of the subject matter of said
application, in any way to any person not cognizant of the
invention prior to the date of the order, including any employee
of the principals, but to keep the same secret except by written
consent first obtained of the Commissioner of Patents, under the
penalties of 35 U.S.C. (1952) 182, 186.
Any other application already filed or hereafter filed which
contains any significant part of the subject matter of the above
identified application falls within the scope of this order. If
such other application does not stand under a security order, it
and the common subject matter should be brought to the attention
of the Security Group, Licensing and Review, Patent Office.
If, prior to the issuance of the secrecy order, any significant
part of the subject matter has been revealed to any person, the
principals shall promptly inform such person of the secrecy order
and the penalties for improper disclosure. However, if such part
of the subject matter was disclosed to any person in a foreign
country or foreign national in the U.S., the principals shall not
inform such person of the secrecy order, but instead shall
promptly furnish to the Commissioner of Patents the following
information to the extent not already furnished: date of
disclosure; name and address of the disclosee; identification of
such part; and any authorization by a U.S. government agency to
export such part. If the subject matter is included in any
foreign patent application, or patent, this should be identified.
The principals shall comply with any related instructions of the
Commissioner.
This order should not be construed in any way to mean that the
Government has adopted or contemplates adoption of the alleged
invention disclosed in this application; nor is it any indication
of the value of such invention.
-------------------------------------
It is my feeling that something on the order of a so-called 'free energy
device' would receive this treatment. My only approach would be to go
to the public domain. That is, get the information or the device out
there to enough people that they could not stop you. This group looks
like the best group to give this information to. Hopefully it will
forthcoming in the next three days.
-------
Transcribed from: PROCEEDINGS; The Second International Symposium on
Non-Conventional Energy Technology, pp 125-126.
I have been told this was presented on September 23, 1983.
Contact Ken MacMeill at Cadake Industries, P.O. Box 1866, Clayton, GA
30525.
*******
----- End Included Message -----
----- End Included Message -----
Path: ns-mx!uunet!jwt!gary
From: bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <qk9sgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Date: 27 Feb 92 15:51:37 GMT
Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login)
Organization: The Matrix
Lines: 115
Here are some of the more lively details about my situation:
In 1981, I was attending school at my new home Tallahassee,
at Tallahassee Community College. When I walked in to register
for classes, I knew something was wrong right away. Almost all
the kids from the previous day had dropped ALL their classes. It
just didn't make any sense. Also, kids were being taken away out
different exits at random intervals, and had a look on their faces
as if they wouldn't be seen again. The whole thing was like some
kind of a show. It was totally different from the place I had
discovered the year before by computer hacking.
The semester was a joke. Some of the kids in my classes were
obviously with SOME kind of intelligence agency, or at least that
was the impression I got. There was so much bs going on it was
unreal. I wound up going to a counselor there, and demanded to
know why these people had been placed in my classes for the
purpose of spying on me. You see, I had been followed around the
country for years by rich kids from California, who held SOME kind
of a grudge against me for SOMETHING. I had made a lot of
powerful enemies in high school and I believe now that this was
part of a more general conspiracy against me and my family.
In any case, I would up in this counselors' office, and she
asked me who to call, and I said I didn't know. She said, "What
about the Sheriffs office?" I said fine, and she picked up the
phone and dialed the number. She spoke for a few moments, then
turned to me and said, "It's Sgt. Parramoore, Gary. He says it's
what you're thinking!" She then took down his name and told me he
wanted to meet with me at the courthouse that day to tell me all
about it. I was greatly relieved to learn that someone of
authority was going to confide in me what was going on. I didn't
make it to the courthouse! I stupidly asked one of the kids in my
psychology class to go with me as a witness. It turned out he was
with the CIA or FBI or somebody, cause when we got to the
courthouse, he went into the marriage bureau and asked for the
guy. Then he told me he knew him, and that he was over at the
Sheriff's station across town. So we drove over there, and when
we walked into the watch commanders office and explained the
sitution to him, he didn't know what the hell we were talking
about. Then this "student" asked me to step out in the hall a
moment so he could talk to the cop alone for a minute. He closed
the door and when it opened a minute later, he said, "You can come
back in now, Gary!" The watch commander was looking at me like I
was some kind of hired assassin, and they had the counselor at the
school on the phone. She asked me to go into a small mental
hospital for a while, and I told her to go to hell. Then I hung
up and sat down in a chair at the cops desk and asked what the
heck was going on here. The "student" says to me this, "Gary,
these people wouldn't be following you around the country unless
they had a good reason, or there was a PLOT TO KILL THE
PRESIDENT!!! He screamed the bold type at me. Now, I'll just bet
you anything that when he shut that door, he whipped some REAL
heavy duty ID out at the cop to make him think twice about telling
me anything or believing ANYTHING I might say! In any case, I had
lost the first round, and I drove the guy back to school. On the
way back, he took pleasure in screaming out the window at the top
of his lungs at people and waving at them furiously as if in a
frenzy. This was a real nice guy, whoever he REALLY was! You can
guess they got to this Parramoore guy, cause guess what!!?? When
I called the operator (the TELEPHONE OPERATOR) and asked for
information for the sheriff's office, she asked who I wanted to
speak to there, and I told her, and then she asked me who I was,
so I told her. Then SHE says, "Well, have you ever MET Sgt.
Parramoore before?! As she was saying that, two guys in track
suits carrying walkie-talkies came running up and took down the
number of the pay phone I was at. I was to experience a lot of
the same during the rest of the time.
The day before I went to the sheriff's office, I went to the
Attorney Generals office at the Capitol building, and demanded to
know who was in my classes. The secretary there, told me politely
to wait, then disappeared. A few minutes later, another secretary
appeared, sat down at the desk, then sudddenly and violently
grabbed the phone, which hadn't rung, and screamed into it,
"HELLO, OPERATOR, OPERATOR!!!" You can guess my reaction. Then
she so politely told me that the Attorney General was a very busy
man, and he couldn't see me, but if I would go over to an office
downtown, their consumer complaints chief would talk to me about
it. As I was walking out the door, she said loudly, "GOOD LUCK!"
I walked into this two-bit office, with a paper sign taped
onto it in the basement of a building downtown. Inside, a burly
man was discussing how much money he could get from running stolen
cars across state borders in a extremely loud voice. When he got
off the phone, he told me that the "chief" would be there in a few
minutes and to have a seat at his desk. I sat down. A minute or
so later, a man who was at least 7 feet tall walked in and slumped
into the chair in front of me. He had a short beard, and a
totally ragged look about him. He looked like the perfect CIA
operative. He just sat there staring me down for a few moments,
then he raised himself up on the chair and said slowly and
methodically, "WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE FOLLOWING YOU??" I was
shocked that he even knew, because I hadn't told them anything at
the Attorney Generals office. I freaked out and said, "I DON'T
KNOW!!!" He said, "But for SEVEN YEARS!! Why, if they wanted you
out of the way, they would have just WASTED you!!!" Didn't sound
like your typical consumer advocate to me either. Then he went
into a lot of drug-paraphenalia type talk, and asked me if I had
any concrete proof that these people were following me around. I
told him that I had taken down license numbers over the years. He
then became intensely interested, leaned forward on the desk and
said, "I NEED that list!" I told him I didn't have it on me, and
he left me there, and ushered me out of the office after giving me
"his" card, on which he crossed out the regular guys number and
put another and said if I would give him license numbers, he would
check it out.
Well, that is how this all really started, the intensely
painful stuff anyways. It is late, so I will add more as time
permits. Take Care, fellow humans!!
Gary Stollman
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440
From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Don Ecker: Super Star on Radio?
Message-ID: <1992Feb28.013937.2751@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
Date: 28 Feb 92 01:39:37 GMT
Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu
Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 10
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu
I've from the Ecker himself that he is going to be on the radio.
It would seem that it is some obscure National Ratio Network that
know one knows about.
If anyone knows if anyone is going to carry his program, or even
knows what the hell I'm talking about, let me know.
Don has a face for radio and is quite good.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!ihz.compuserve.com!dzecchini
From: dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb28.013543.15518@csi.compuserve.com>
Date: 28 Feb 92 01:35:43 GMT
References: <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com> <zzzk.699178139@jacobs>
Organization: CompuServe Incorporated
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4718 sci.space:27143 sci.skeptic:21121 alt.paranormal:4528
As an added defense to my earlier opinions:
My ideal that there is no apparent symmetry to the face is stemming from
much more realistic scientific bounds than from emotional ones. This
is why I lay the odds much more on the side of a non-symmetrical foundation
than on a potential artifact.
Look at it THIS way:
1:) At least half of the entire "face" is completely shrouded
in shadows, thus meaning that there could be a leveled
out portion or not BUT THAT WE CANNOT KNOW FOR CERTAIN.
2:) IF there is a symmetry to the "face", then this STILL does
not prove it is an artifact, only that it is yet another
in an extremely large number of bizarre-seeming, yet
perfectly natural formations that APPEAR to be of
something we recognize. It's origin may have been non-
natural, but the odds against that are much higher than
they are for it being an interesting natural phenomenon.
3:) Looking at the enhanced images, it becomes clear to me that
there are very VERY many possible configurations for the
other side that would still produce the SAME shadows as a
symmetrical one would, but only really ONE that would fit a
symmetrical model.
Thus, if you're looking at it simply from an odds-for-or-against
viewpoint, the odds AGAINST it being a face increase dramatically.
And that's what I was asked. The odds against.
Any more questions?
Be seeing you...
--
David "Maelstrom" Zecchini | "It may be better to be a live jackal
dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com | than a dead lion, but it is better still
dzecchin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | to be a live lion. And usually easier."
maelstro@bluemoon.rn.com | -Robert A. Heinlein
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!apple!netcomsv!mork!noring
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: How about some GIFs? (was: UFO Video-Photo-Documents Part3)
Message-ID: <cknhn=fnoring@netcom.com>
Date: 27 Feb 92 22:32:12 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 35
In article <112594.29ACCC9D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) writes:
>
>Hi Steve. I don't know about the documents, but I have 5 GIFs on my BBS that
>ostensibly show an alien in a case of some kind. The GIF files were captured
>some time ago from a video of the specimen. It is the ghastliest little
>thing I've seen in a long, long time.
>
>But having said that -- it looks familiar, doesn't it?? Jim Schaffer & I had
>some conversations about it on my board ... we both think it's fake (or a
>terrestial life-form, anyway). But I can't for the life of me remember what
>it is. For some reason, I keep thinking it's a seahorse -- the largest
>species can get a couple of feet long. But the pictures I have don't
>resemble the seahorse ... so there we are.
>
Clark, I tried to e-mail you, but it bounced.
Would it be possible to post these GIFs to Usenet? Maybe some of the
bio-scientist types who read Usenet could identify it if it is terrestrial.
Where, BTW, did the original video come from, and why do some people claim that
it is of an alien specimen?
Jon Noring
--
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the |
| JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | caravan moves on." |
| 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101 | the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average
coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,
nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner; quoted in 1987.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb28.012427.27115@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Date: 28 Feb 92 01:24:27 GMT
References: <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com> <1992Feb26.210311.20023@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Feb27.064922.2784@csi.compuserve.com>
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
Lines: 44
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4720 sci.space:27144 sci.skeptic:21126 alt.paranormal:4530
dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:
|>Josh,
|>You really want me to give you odds?
yup.
|>Well, to answer your question, I HAVE seen both of the images...(and in
|>addition, the images from a book called "The Face on Mars" that I picked
|>up in the library. If you want to see enhanced images, THAT book has
|>images that are INCREDIBLY over-enhanced.)
I have considered that possibility; I consider it real in fact.
|>And the odds that I would give you AGAINST this particular photo being
|>a pre-shaped, alien artifact are along the order of 10,000,000 to 1.
OK! in that case I will bet $1 against your $10,000,000. Now, even though you
can afford compu$erve's fees, I somehow doubt that you have ten megabucks
that you are willing to gamble with, so why don't we make it 1000 to 1 and
I'll put up $10 aganist your $10,000. I am totally serious.
|>The largest doundation for that being, simply put, that they just don't LOOK
|>like they HAVE to be an artifact. Granted, there is a SLIM possiblity
|>that it COULD be non-natural in origin, but there is NO significant evidence
|>that I can see in either of the photos that indicates that there is symmetry
|>between the two sides, or that the effect is anything more than just
|>shadows.
I don't know that they are artifacts. I think the possibility is strong
enough (and the belief among some people that they are *not* artifacts is
strong enough) that I am willing to gamble small amounts of cash money against
large amounts.
|>Try this, try looking at the images from a completely different angle,
|>say, upside down or sideways,and THEN try to see if theere appears to be a
|>complete symmetry formed.
what convinces me that there is something interesting is all the formations
taken as a whole; especially the 'straight wall' on the crater splash
pattern, but the whole complex of formations.
josh
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!apple!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Richard Russell Sightings
Keywords: Russell
Message-ID: <rsnhz-janson@netcom.com>
Date: 28 Feb 92 03:10:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 14
Does anyone have any info on the sightings Georgia congressman Richard
Russell reported during a visit to the USSR in the 1950s?
I'm trying to gather some info on UFO sightings by "famous" people
from the [clap-clap-clap] Great State of Georgia (apologies to the
[clap-clap-clap] Great State of Texas).
--
Anson Kennedy
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)
"If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'"
-Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!masscomp!peora!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,alt.conspiracy
Subject: FILE: Orvotron Newsletter for Mar-April 92 - Part 1
Summary: Still Further info on "Asteroid to Hit the Earth"...
Keywords: Earth Changes,True Meaning behind the 11: 11 "doorway", Asteroid
Message-ID: <1992Feb28.054622.15959@bilver.uucp>
Date: 28 Feb 92 05:46:22 GMT
Followup-To: Alt.alien.visitors
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 524
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4722 talk.religion.newage:9523 alt.conspiracy:12673
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*DISCLAIMER* *DISCLAIMER* *DISCLAIMER* *DISCLAIMER* *DISCLAIMER*
This information is presented for your perusal and is a continuation
of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The
content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal
views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims
represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts
at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it
yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will
leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-)
As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups
exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp
in mail.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the latest Orvotron Newsletter...thought some of you might
find it interesting..
ORVOTRON
Bimonthly Newsletter, March\April, 1992
The East Coast Power Point, Kortron and Solinus
EMail Address: Fido Net Address 1:379/703
Please send us your input
Greetings Ascending Star People. Perhaps you have wondered
why I begin each writing in this manner. I do this to emphasize
that Homo sapiens were originally seeded on Earth by beings from
the stars as a physical manifestation of God. The object of this
was to evolve a species in physical form in order to seed the
expanding universes with that image. Variations on the theme
were created when other beings subdued and then mixed with the
original root race, thereby tampering with the original seed.
These beings realized that their own genetic blueprint did not
enable them to access the Living Library which had been pro-
grammed into our ancestors' DNA/RNA in the Earth Garden experi-
ment.
I realize this is not an original statement, but by making
it I want to convey our support of the other sources of truth who
are putting out this same message to awakening humanity. The
Pliedian material makes this same reference to our origins. We
recommend reviewing Barbara Marciniak's material as she presents
this information in a clear manner which "rings true" to us.
(Her audio cassettes can be obtained through Bold Connections
Unlimited, P. O. Box 6521, Raleigh, NC 27628.) For the same
reason we recommend Virginia Essene's (Ed.) book New Cells, New
Bodies, NEW LIFE!. (Spiritual Education Endeavors Publishing
Co., 1556 Halford Ave., #288, Santa Clara, CA 95051.)
Many changes now occurring are affecting the planet and all
life. Those who fear change are growing confused and frightened.
This also applies to those in control as they are forced to
rethink many of their plans within plans; rapid changes are also
affecting their projected goals and outcomes.
Our research indicates that there is a plan to separate star
people from the rest of humanity in an effort to keep them from
informing the masses of the many changes now affecting Earth and
her inhabitants. As we become more aware of these plans we must
continue to hold our ground without fear and know we are here to
inform, to help all humanity - the good, the bad and the ugly.
Fear always seems to override common sense, rational responses
and correct action of a higher order which could produce abun-
dance, peace, harmony and freedom for all. The greatest fear of
those in control is the loss of that control and this is the true
reason they do not seek peaceful solutions, or truly accept the
Higher Order - The One God. Many of you may believe that the
American government is still "One nation under God" as our fore-
fathers deemed it, but this is constantly overshadowed by hidden
agendas, and covert secret actions that are not of God, but are
of greed and deceit to control the masses.
What the controllers don't seem to realize yet is what each
of us in service are. We are ambassadors of The Light here to
help the masses AND the controllers out of the mess they've
created and to help ALL assimilate the many changes ahead. Their
plans within plans are causing problems within problems but soon
the planners will understand their pursuits are dead ends of no
worth. Unfortunately, if they continue on their present course
without seeking help from the Forces of Light they will increase
fear and hopelessness that will further discredit them as lead-
ers in the eyes of those they control.
The first steps the controllers must take in order for any
accord to take place are honesty, compassion and a real intent to
act for the well being of ALL life on Earth. The re-creation of
lies upon lies must stop. Their choice must be to come clean
with the public regarding what is really taking place and why.
Continuing to hide the whole truth will only result in an already
confused public eventually being future shocked into reality when
the real facts finally do surface. It is far better for them to
tell the public what is really happening than to wait until
their secret plans fail.
What many of those who are creating the secret and covert
plans do not yet understand is that like attracts like - the root
of their dilemma. The plans they are creating for the future of
mankind are based upon ignorance. This lack of knowledge (the
absence of understanding the love base) leaves a void and thus
room for negative reality to creep in creating extremes they
cannot even fathom. In order to prevent the extreme in the
shifts coming (when positive energy reachs the level of overcom-
ing resistance) at some point acceptance must enter in, balance
then will occur. Resistance only creates hard change to all con-
cerned.
If they continue to implement plans which might destroy all
life on Earth it will not be tolerated by the ascended beings who
are standing by in case of such an emergency. This is being done
to protect the awakening masses but not necessarily those think-
ing they have power over others. Any action against the light
workers will only result in a state of hopelessness being created
for those thinking they can destroy what is not theirs to de-
stroy. We are independent overseers of massive change here to
assist as a private group not under anyone's control or jurisdic-
tion. Judgment day is real and their belief that they will be
spared is false. What is coming will spare no one! So, I ask,
why not rethink everything now and prevent future dilemmas?
What's coming can be dealt with, but only by the opposite
polarities merging into a balanced unity. Individuals must not
only want a world based on Love, but they must also choose to act
in a loving manner toward that global goal. Only then will the
understanding that we are all ONE result in the peaceful trans-
formation of Earth. Each individual or group has to make this
choice.
Light workers born in service to Earth have watched a dete-
riorating situation continually worsen. Once awakened to our
mission of love it becomes even more imperative that we become
actively aware of the power structure of the negative polarity.
We must become more informed about our own personal power and
learn how giving it away to the negative reality only gives it
more power. The sheer act of allowing another to decide your
fate is not a positive step, especially when those who would
control are not honest about their motivations or plans. The
world they have created is based on deceit and lies and is now in
its death throws. Negativity begets negativity, which creates
fear and hopelessness which may result in the annihilation of all
life. Personal power based in Love not Fear is the champion of
this age. Do you understand?
Those who merely sit on the side-lines waiting for others to
create positive change are just as guilty as those who create
negativity through their dishonesty. It is necessary that each
individual become involved, to take responsibility through ac-
tion, otherwise power is still being given to those who would
potentially use it for their own personal gain rather than in the
best interests of all life on the planet. The continuation of
this kind of action (or non-action) merely results in "what you
see is what you get". Passive, uninvolved behavior regarding
cause and effect will only lead one to be cleansed along with all
the rest that is out of harmony.
The choice to become informed and involved must be made on
an individual basis. It is not necessary to wait for a govern-
ment or anyone else to create a better world first. You, the
individual, must make this choice, accept full responsibility for
the negative and then take action toward the creation of positive
love-based changes on Earth. The line is drawn between those who
would join others to create a better world and those who either
through complacency, ignorance or fear give away their power to
help create positive changes.
The bonding effect of our Father's love will protect those
who serve in that love. Remember nothing on this Earth or from
without can stop the positive changes now coming to Earth. God
helps those who help themselves and your actions and thoughts
will determine your worth in God's Kingdom as it is reestablished
on Earth. The Meek will not inherit the Earth if they do not help
themselves and others change the problems which are outside of
THE DIVINE PLAN OF GOD.
( What Can You Do to Prepare for the Future? )
God helps those who help themselves. The fence sitters
must decide to get off the fence and then pour their energy into
helping (in any way possible) all those who have struggled to
create foundations for positive change. One must set an example
through involvement, putting aside personal ego-based conflicts
and focusing instead on the work at hand. Each of us has a
contribution to make no matter how small or insignificant it may
seem. One step forward will lead to the next as more people see
they too can create the changes which will transform Earth into
the garden and living library it was designed to be.
Reading these words may be inspiring, but without following
them with actions of some sort one remains on the same fence or
in the same boat as those who put their energy into controlling
others. The choice is to act or to be victimized through inac-
tion. "I can't change anything" is a blatant lie one accepts as
truth. The history books are filled with examples of individuals
whose endeavors created world change. Each of us has this same
power but it must be claimed and then used. Excuses for non-
action are nothing more than idle inferiority complexes. This
power loss is created through well placed lies by those who
control through mass brainwashing. This is based on the fact
that they know that with the power of truth goes the freedom to
act. This is exactly what they don't want you to know. What
they want is complacent slaves who believe the controllers have
all the power and therefore allow them to make all the decisions.
BARF!!!!
You CAN Wake-Up and reclaim your sovereignty but you must
make the choice to do so and then stick to it! This year will be
a time of profound changes on Earth. It may also be a year for
your activation to awareness or destruction as an ignorant life
form. The cards are being dealt as we speak. The masters of
deceit are making plans to take out huge blocks of life on the
planet. Eugenics is going on now separating who lives or dies.
You may argue, "But I Am Not God! I cannot make change
alone." I say we are all gods representing God's presence here
on Earth. No one is ever alone. However, with our abilities go
responsibilities and action type decisions that must be made.
Once the decision to "hear the voice within" is made, one must
take the time to listen. The Bible reference to this is: Be
Silent, Be Still, Hear the Voice of GOD. Action then must be
taken to do what that voice tells you. The rest is a piece of
cake. The voice of God is your real power as an individual. It
will guide and direct you to your part in Creating Heaven On
Earth. How many times must I repeat this very simple truth?
My life has been one of constant impossibility from anoth-
er's point of view. Those close to me see miracles happen on a
constant basis. But I must confess none of it would have been
possible without the blessing of this contact with my inner
voice, which I call God or Spirit. Each of you have this ability
and it is the root of your personal power. YOU MUST USE IT!
To follow another's way is a waste of what little time and
opportunity you have left. During the cycled events ahead you
can open to your inner voice and be guided to safety to live to
see the New Age. This experience will come without loss of your
physical vehicle - your bodies. You must open and go within to
understand and use this guided knowledge for your survival in all
changes coming to Earth. Do You understand?
( Following the Champion of the Day )
We have observed that when a new champion appears many flock
to that individual to support and follow without questioning the
goals beyond what appears as the obvious. The obvious may not be
truth and without first consulting their personal inner guidance
this following behavior often creates situations in which support
actually shifts away from the group aspect which is our true goal
as volunteers on Earth assignment. Granted these diversions will
eventually be seen for what they are and result in a lesson then
being learned, but the loss of time and focus on the real issues
at hand can not be replaced. Diversions create opportunities for
the dark lords to further destroy Earth and her life forms.
You can be associated with anyone's project you choose
but always remember your inner guidance is your only real direc-
tion and safety net when it comes to decisions regarding your
place of allegiance. The future of Homo sapiens on Earth must be
prepared for now and dreamy thoughts and actions based on ficti-
tious ideas will not help when the tides rise and the Earth
trembles. My guidance and that of others indicate this year will
bring many of your worst fears about Earth Changes into your
reality.
We have received information that the White Brotherhood and
other ascended beings located in obscure isolated areas known as
the secret cities, etc. have evacuated these places for the
safety of higher ground in the mountains. This took place world-
wide. Does that tell you anything about the times ahead?
The acquisition of communal land in places of safety should
be a prominent point of focus for those who wish to survive the
times ahead and build foundations for the New. To just believe
you will be in the right place at the right time is not enough.
If you are being told through your inner guidance to prepare in
this manner it is imperative that you begin in earnest now rather
than flocking to the nearest or best sounding "leader" who would
take you, your money and your energy down fantasy lane.
We are still aware of several thousand acres of pristine
organically farmed land that is available and could accommodate
hundreds. However, without the expressed interest and focus of
those who share a vision of such a community we are unable to
move forward. We will not manifest this by ourselves, but we
will assist a group in whatever way we can. We have the advan-
tage of over twenty-five years of combined knowledge of working
with this kind of land and have gathered a great deal of informa-
tion on alternate energy, housing and farming which we are will-
ing to share. We have informed many of you through our newslet-
ter and in individual conversations that the land is there, but
so far no one has gone beyond the talking stage. Let us know if
you are interested in pursuing this as "time is short".
( Kay Ra's Channeling for 1992 )
We recently received the following channeling from Kay Ra
(Starlight Farm Newsletter, Rt. 1, Box 159-B, Round Top, TX
78954) and include it for your benefit because we have known for
some time that an asteroid as big as a city is headed our way.
This is not the same asteroid we've been mentioning that is a
reptilian ship in disguise (due in around 1995-6) but one that
CNN cable news alerted the public about several months ago. We
do not have cablevision on the mountain but several of you saw
this announcement and called us about it. We feel Kay Ra's
message is of prime importance and if heeded perhaps many will
make efforts to establish safe havens for the near future.
The Phoenix (meteor), the Survival/Rescue, the New Govern-
ment. The Phoenix will strike the Earth in the southern-most
area of the Atlantic Ocean between the lower regions of South
America and Africa - closer to Africa. The arrival of the Phoe-
nix is the initial step of the change or shift of the Planet and
will occur potentially at the end of 1992 or the beginning of
1993. (We are very much aware that time has little meaning in
Spirit; so we give the time-frames with this in mind.)
The meteor will correct the wobble or tilt of the Planet
which is now in existence and will create major continental and
oceanic shifts. In the years following the impact, well into the
next century, the most important shiftings will occur. Many low-
lying areas are swept away, especially along the Atlantic sea-
boards. The rising waters will also affect the Mediterranean Sea
and the Baltic Sea, though these are somewhat protected. High
wind velocities will affect all the Earth.
The east coast of the US will be affected. There will
be a period of 12 to 24 hours after impact and oceanic floor
changes before the flooding and tidal waves occur. The flooding
will affect most of Florida and the area between the ocean and
the mountains in the seaboard states. Areas which are 2,000 to
5,000 feet are considered safe.
The Gulf coast shoreline will be somewhat protected at the
initial stages because of the Caribbean islands, but the Matagor-
da and New Madrid fault lines will be greatly affected by the
impact. These faults will begin their splitting, and much ocean
water will invade the Mississippi River.
Houston will be greatly affected. Many glass buildings and
the tallest buildings will fall. The central part of the city,
however, that which is called "inside the Loop", will remain
above water for some months to a year.
The changes will bring about the evacuations by the Space
Brothers, envisioned by many, of those who are prepared or are
guided to the evacuation points. These survivors will be helped
by those who have chosen to become "ground commanders", who have
chosen to remain behind for this mission. The survivors will be
taken by means of interdimensional change into the ships and
deposited in places of safety which have been chosen by their
souls. These places are already-established communities or
cities in the central areas of a continent which will not be
affected by earthquakes.
There will be thousands and thousands who will heed the
earlier warning by scientists about the in-coming meteor or their
own premonitions. They will flee the low-lying areas without a
destination or point of sanctuary consciously chosen. This
turmoil will create first a shifting of the Federal Government to
the "centralized Washington", that is to say, which is in Kansas.
It will attempt to continue the government beyond the destruc-
tion. However, the suspension of human rights and of the Consti-
tution will be called (in much the same way as during the Great
Depression).
Because the government will fail to help the people, there
will be he who will rise up as leader. Though the predominate
government (in Kansas) will begin as early as the turn of the
century, that which is the community government, those which are
places of safety, will become stronger and more authoritative.
The monetary system, as you know it, will end even before
the centralized government. Almost immediately, there will come
a bartering system - "I have what you need; you have what I need.
Let us trade." Where money does exist, there will be hardship;
there will be greed still, so that the sooner the monetary system
as is now present ends, the more quickly communities can congre-
gate, harmonize, and balance with one another.
Individual and Planetary Ascension. Individual ascension
is already taking place and will continue throughout the Planet.
There are those whose bodies are shifting well into Fourth Dimen-
sion and also into Fifth Dimension levels. The ones who choose
to remain with the Planet after the Earth Changes will be those
who have chosen to individually ascend. There will, then, be no
more hindrances or resistance within the Planet.
The Planet is already moving into the Fourth Dimension and
as a part of this has agreed to receive the Phoenix into Herself
as a means of Her transition. The individual choices to move
into Fourth Dimension are already underway. You have personally
chosen the Ascension Process as have most of the participants
with you. Everyone who is identifying himself/herself with the
secure and safe places of the Planet is choosing to stay with the
Planet and serve Her into the next age.
The Planet is seeking the Fifth Dimensional level as a part
of Its destiny to become a star/sun. This will occur in total in
about 1,000 years or about 3,000 A.D. This is a shift completely
out of that which is acknowledged around you now and into that
which is light - light in form, but only light or energy.
Supplies/Commerce/Banking. The chemicals applied to and for
the groceries are those which many are finding abhorrent. There-
fore, the concept of herbal, vegetable, and fruit gardens is
coming into being.
As for stock or amounts in grocery stores, this will cease
when the lines of communication and transportation end, especial-
ly before the turn of the century. There is potential for food
supplies to come to a close in two to three years and that the
garden will be the support of the people (as were the Victory
gardens of World War II)>
There need be no fear of gardens or food sources becoming
contaminated. The objective among the higher or more refined
dimensions such as the Devic (plant) kingdoms and the Space
Brothers is that intention to keep the so-called survivors alive,
to nurture and cherish them for they are the Planet's human
kingdom reborn! Therefore, know that your food supplies will be
guarded by the greater beings and that you will remain nurtured
and nourished.
The Federal government will attempt to control the people
through money and through credit, etc. Even though it is much
inhibited in doing so, the government's attempt will be approxi-
mately into the next century. However, the banking and credit
systems, their sources, their power and so on, will be broken due
to the lack of transportation and communication. Look to the
destruction of the present monetary system almost immediately and
the barter system taken up. The objective is to create the
community as the new government, to create trust and lack of
greed.
A new system of finance will occur in 20 to 30 years from
the time of the original destruction, but it will NOT be based on
a central or organized banking system nor upon precious metals or
banking reserves. It will be based upon the individual's means
of support, upon a more balanced idea of helping one another.
The Present Location of the Phoenix. It has entered into
the Solar System. It is not a part of the Asteroid Belt, but is
an asteroid or that which will function as an asteroid. The
present angle is creating a drawing toward the sun. However, the
projection for it is that of colliding with this Planet. In
other words, the timing is such that as it hurdles itself toward
the sun or is drawn by the magnetism of the sun, it will meet
with this Planet in Her orbit by design as well as by accident.
The meteor or asteroid was and IS planned or designed
because this Planet has requested this collision to occur to
bring about Her desire for change. It is being maintained and,
when necessary, guided by the Space Brothers (Pleiadians under
Ashtar's command) and others of the Council who are in service to
this Planet and to this Solar System. Know that the Phoenix is,
so far, in the proper alignment and timing for such a strike.
***********************
So now you have yet another new scenario to hash about. For
the Astronomy buffs, the asteroid's number is CS1992. My question
is (knowing this newsletter is read by many thousands around the
world who never respond in any way) - What will it do to bring us
closer together as one family? Will you know when the asteroid
is close? In the past the government and media have announced
such potential disasters only after they have passed, or not at
all. Other alternatives (for those who are not connected to
their inner guidance) are the computer bulletin board networks
like ours addressing these concerns. What if these no longer
exist due to lack of real support? It has been estimated that
the safety margin for evacuation to higher ground is twelve
hours. Will you have time to reach places of safety? What
preparations are being made to have food available to feed the
ones who make it to high ground? Do you think those already
there could feed large groups of people? Ask yourself some
questions. It may very well affect you. It never hurts to be
prepared, otherwise swimming lessons may be a good alternative.
All else put aside here is yet another reason in a
diverse world with many pit falls affecting your survival. Know-
ing the things that are affecting your survival that are not well
publicized may pay off by opening you up to the experience lead-
ing to Eternal Life. Read On!
The following article was taken from the February/March,
1991 issue of Nexus Magazine. This is an Australian publication
which we highly recommend for updated information on many "New
Age" topics. A one year subscription (6 issues) is $30 and
should be made payable to Nexus Magazine, C/- P. O. Mapleton, Qld
4560 Australia.
( The Photon Belt Story )
Is our solar system about to enter a cosmic 'cloud', as part
of a 12,000 year cycle? We present this obscure but popular 1981
article for you to decide.
People all over the world are grasping, reaching out for
little pieces of knowledge, enlightenment, hope for the future of
their children in a world of growing degradation, drugs, rape,
murder, etc. The Prophets of doom preach of physical horror and
annihilation. It is like a great vortex, a great sucking spiral,
ever downward, blackness, despair.
You look upwards, can see the light at the top and grasp
and claw your way to get out of that ever quickening pull of
despair. The truth sometimes is so simple that we look past it,
ignore it and try to find a much more complicated answer, when
all the time, it is there, staring you right in the face, your
passport out of the vortex into the future.
-----------Continued in Bimonthly Newsletter, March\April, 1992 Part TWO--------
Don
--
-* Don Allen *- // Only | Are you ready for SETI?
Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona | The *real* "October Surprise"
Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!masscomp!peora!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,alt.conspiracy
Subject: FILE: Orvotron Newsletter for Mar-April 92 - Part 2
Summary: Still Further info on "Asteroid to Hit the Earth"...
Keywords: Earth Changes,True Meaning behind the 11: 11 "doorway", Asteroid
Message-ID: <1992Feb28.055128.16097@bilver.uucp>
Date: 28 Feb 92 05:51:28 GMT
Followup-To: Alt.alien.visitors
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 536
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4723 talk.religion.newage:9524 alt.conspiracy:12674
-------------Bimonthly Newsletter, March\April, 1992 Part TWO-------------------
It all starts with a little atom and the group of little
electrons which orbit around it. English physicist Paul Adrain
Maurice Dirac, said that for each type of particle, an anti-
particle will exist.
In 1932, Carl David Anderson discovered the anti-electron
and called it a positron. In 1956, the anti-proton and anti-
neutron were discovered.
When an anti-particle is formed, it comes into existence in
a universe of ordinary particles, and it is only a matter of
time....a fraction of a second...before it meets and collides
with an electron. The charges cancel, the total mass of the pair
is converted into energy in the form of PHOTONS. This offers a
new and unprecedented powerful source of energy. The PHOTON
is about to become your way of life in the very near future.
A PHOTON BAND was discovered in outer space in 1961 by
means of satellite born instruments. We will now move onto the
PLEIADES....The Seven Sisters...an estimated 400 light years from
here. This group of stars is the basis of mythology in many
countries....the Greek Gods, Australian Dreamtime....Chinese
mythology. To quote from just a few Astronomers....
Jose Comas Sola made a special study of the Pleiades and
discovered that they form a system, of which our sun is part of
that system, and also several other suns, and all apparently,
have their own Planetary systems.
Freidrich Wilhelm Bessel showed that members of this group
had a proper motion of 5.5 seconds of arc per century in the same
direction.
Isaac Asimov..."We can assume that all the stars in this
cluster are the same chronological age."
Edmund Halley, studying the position of the stars, noted
that at least three stars were not in the spots recorded by the
Greeks. The difference was so great that it was unlikely that
either the Greeks or Halley could have made a mistake. It seemed
very clear to Halley that these stars moved within a system.
Paul Otto Hesse also made a special study of this system,
of which our sun is a part, and discovered, at absolute right
angles to the movements of the suns, a PHOTON BELT or MANASIC
RING, a phenomena which scientists have not yet been able to
reproduce with laboratory experiments.
It takes our sun 24,000 years to complete an orbit, (of this
system) and as seen by the diagram, it is divided into sections.
The 10,000 years of darkness is the period as we know it now, day
time, night time, the 2,000 year period of all light, again
10,000 years of darkness and 2,000 years of light.
WE ARE NOW POSED TO ENTER THIS PHOTON BELT. It is inevi-
table....between now and the end of this century - but it is
inevitable! We have completed the full circle and are back at
the beginning. It is described in detail in your bible, by all
books on mythology, by Nostradamus, and by modern day scientists.
To quote our scientists....If the Earth enters first into
the PHOTON BELT, the sky will appear to be on fire, but be as-
sured, this is cold light, so there will be no heat. If the sun
enters first, there will be immediate darkness, which, computed
our speed through space, will last 110 hours. The interaction
between the Solar Radiation and the PHOTON BELT will make the sky
look as if it is full of falling stars. As the Earth enters this
radiation belt, all molecules will become excited, all atoms will
change, things will become luminescent, THERE WILL BE CONSTANT
LIGHT. There can be no darkness, not within the deepest cave,
not within the human body. A quick look at your bible...."All
the stars will fall from the sky and the sky will be no
more....".
It is expected that the rotation of the Earth may diminish a
little. Because of the reduced Solar Radiation, the temperature
is expected to become cooler and the ice caps are expected to
extend to about latitude 40 in both hemispheres....your history
books will tell you that at least five ICE AGES have been record-
ed, and they seem to last about 2,000 years. It may be noted
that world communication centers, fixed satellites, US bases and
experimental sights are within the 'safe zone'. Design or acci-
dent?
What about you? There are three types of people in our
cosmos...corporeal, like us, solid, human;....atmospherean, also
solid to a point, but the molecular structure is quite
different;....ethereans, no mass at all. When we enter the
Photon Belt, a normal healthy person is expected to feel a jolt
similar to putting your finger in a live light socket, and the
transformation will be complete...you have just changed from a
Corporeal person to an Atmospherean person....("and ye shall be
changed to immortality without the separation of death in the
twinkling of an eye.")
Theologians have written at great depth on Bible characters,
and assert that they have lived in this period of light. The sky
and atmosphere was different and apparently it never
rained....Nostradamus, in his quatrain about the end of the world
as we know it, in 1999...."and it will rain no more, but in 40
years, all will be normal."
In aboriginal mythology it is said...."Men were differ-
ent to what they are now....we had a bridge to the stars..." In
all their stories if they fell out with the Chief or Elder, they
fled to the sky. So did the Greeks. It appears that space
travel is simple within the photon belt.
The year 1962 was the year that we came within the influ-
ence of the Photon Belt. 1962 was a year of great UFO activity.
Did we come within range of space travelers using the Photon
Belt? As we hurtle closer and closer, will more UFO's look us
over before our rebirth into the years of LIGHT. It would seem
that this is already happening.
Erich Von Daniken, when visiting South America, discovered
a tribe with an object given to them by Sky People thousands of
years ago. They were told to keep it clean and "when it hums
like thousands of swarms of bees, we will return." It started
humming softly three years ago (ie 1978). A cosmic alarm clock
alerting us to the coming of the light?
It would seem some civilizations may live permanently with
The Light. When our Planet leaves this period of light and
returns to the 10,000 years of darkness, do THEY return to the
LIGHT and wait our eventual re-entry. It seems likely. The
Mayans departed hurriedly with the message also of their return,
which scholars say is now imminent. Rock carvings around the
world show drawings similar to the system of Alcione.
Ball lightning...a phenomena about which little is known, is
it perhaps little pockets of the Photon Belt?
To all UFO researchers, these craft always show an interest
in nuclear installations. What will happen to a reactor within
the Belt? I think our scientists are way out ahead. Photon
energy seems to be the energy of the future. Many UFO reports
seem to indicate Photon rockets on experimental craft..."the
headlights were at the back." The reports at hand indicate slow,
cumbersome craft..but within the Photon Belt, I think we have
craft for immediate unlimited space travel.
Because the radiation of our sun will be modified by the
Photon energy, is this why our scientists only pay small lip
service to the development of solar energy?
Let us think about our planet coming out of the light and
into the darkness. Aboriginal mythology says "we were cast out
into darkness and were much afraid, so the Gods gave us a Sun to
warm us and a moon to see at night."
If the ice caps from within the light years, then the
increased Solar radiation when leaving the belt must surely melt
the ice .... Floods. If it does not rain within this period of
light, it is understandable why Noah was so awed by the sight of
that first rainbow. The Gilgamesh talks of a great flood, but it
was apparently about 10,000 years before Noah's flood.
We have thought about our world and the effect on a single
person, but what about humanity as a whole? It is conceivable
that many people will not survive the initial jolt if they are
not prepared for it. If the ice extends to latitude 40, that
covers half the USA, and most of Europe and Asia. That is a lot
of people without a home. Will they be accepted in other coun-
tries? In a limited space of fertility, will it be possible to
support untold millions?
I think not.
And so tomorrow . . . . . . . .
(Reprinted in Nexus Magazine with permission from Australian
International UFO Flying Saucer Research Magazine, #12 August
1981) For more details: GPO Box 2004, Adelaide. SA 5001. Ph:
(08) 272-3131.)
( The Truth of 11:11 )
I cannot be silent on this topic - there are NO doors being
swung open. There IS a merging of dimensions as we go deeper
into the photon belt. The pyramid on Stone Mountain was one of
the devices built to help this process take place. It created a
New Grid that was less resistant to this energy coming in and
through Earth. Doors are a lot of bunk. The only DOORS opening
are those in your consciousness to bring you to a new understand-
ing. These are natural cycled events that happen everywhere in
creation over and over again. They are not portals for your
ascension, but rather paths to opening up to what you really are.
Many will completely open if they survive to the Photon
Belt's arrival by taking the time to listen to their inner guid-
ance. This is a connection to a higher frequency where truth
exists and where one will fully understand that THOUGHT creates.
When this knowledge is revealed to each individual then each of
you will no longer need prodding such as mine to create Heaven on
Earth. This will occur because those who make it to this stage
will be on a new Earth minus the Sheep, Shepherds, Fools and Jack
Asses who were destroying it. They will know that what they
think, they can instantly manifest and they will understand that
God is Love and will manifest in that love knowing the opposite
experience at that point is behind them, not wanting to re-expe-
rience it again. At this point you will have understood Earth as
having been a school to teach you right and wrong as Co-Creators.
All this is based on hooking you up to the unused five-
sixths of your brain - the double helix, the twelve strands of
consciousness now awakening as we go deeper into the Photon Light
Belt. It is important that we become fully awake and survive in
order to take the opportunity to become our graduated parts
contributing to the expanding universes. Following another is a
useless waste of time, energy and money. Follow Spirit!!!
That's my say on the 11:11.
( How Do We Spend the Money You Send Us? )
Perhaps you've wondered how the donation and subscription
money you send is spent. Last year the vast majority of the
donation money went into the building of the pyramid with a small
portion going to feed those who came through to help with the
project. We also spend donation money on the computer when
professional help is necessary or equipment needs replacing.
The subscription money pays for the printing and mailing
of the newsletter and the business part of the phone bill which
ranges from $150 - $200 a month to gather and exchange informa-
tion via the computer and the phone. Our personal expenses are
paid by our personal income and these expenditures often include
such items as replacing the hot water heater and water pump or
cleaning the septic tank which receive considerable use from the
many people who come here.
( Will This Bimonthly Newsletter Continue? )
With the printing and mailing of this newsletter the finan-
cial base we operate on (subscription money) will be used up. At
this point our publication will continue only if we receive
enough new subscriptions, resubscriptions or donations to put out
the next one. Up until this point we have not found it necessary
to use donation money to support the newsletter, but the rising
cost of researching information and communicating with our
"extended family" (i.e. the phone bill) have placed this little
proprietorship near bankruptcy. We prefer not to use donation
money to keep the newsletter going, but it is a moot point anyway
since we have no donation money in the till.
This has been the pattern for over four issues but we are
at a live or die point now due to the fact that about one-half of
our subscribers will soon need to resubscribe. If you would like
to resubscribe early in order to alleviate the situation, it
would truly be helpful. If you can't pay the subscription price
all at one time but want to subscribe for the first time we will
work with you on making partial payments.
We have done our best on a shoestring for months but now we
can only continue if your support continues. Those souls who
have been taking a free ride by not subscribing but somehow
obtaining a copy of each issue are some of the ones who have
created this situation. We know of many groups who receive it
and then make copies for all the individuals involved. There is
also the issue of being able to obtain each newsletter free of
charge via the computer bulletin board system. There is no
remedy for either situation except for these souls to become
involved by paying for what they receive.
We could reduce the cost of getting each issue out by elimi-
nating even more folks from our complimentary list. We have done
several purges over the past six months and have reduced the
number now sent free to only 35. This includes exchange copies
for another's publication (networking for information), or copies
to those who have stated they want to receive it but simply can't
afford to pay anything. In addition, we send free "Love Copies"
to people our subscribers recommend or to those who inquire for
the first time. Perhaps we should charge to receive the initial
copy. Perhaps we should say "No Money, No Honey" to those who
say they can't afford to pay $2.50 every month. But, these
solutions seem both inhumane and poor business policies to us.
The entire point for so many light workers volunteering to
incarnate together, this time around, was for support of the
organizations working to create correct and positive change. We
are all in this together and networking and supporting each other
is a MUST! We hope to hear from you SOON!!
( The Information System)
We have watched many other dedicated souls in the evolving
information network literally go under due to a lack of financial
support for their efforts in searching out and then sharing
truth. This often requires many hours on the phone, using the
computer/modem, printing costs and postage not to mention the
many other expenses incurred to get the news out on a worldwide
basis. We would love to be in a position to forward funds to
those we know who are helping the cause of truth at their own
expense but so far we are just "cutting it" ourselves.
The word is that freedom of speech is at risk due to legis-
lation that would not only curb it but possibly put a stop to
even the dissemination of information in newsletters and bulletin
boards such as ours.
Experience has shown us that those who are really working
to spread truth are not piling up big bucks or taking trips
around the world; they are staying put and remain accessible to
those who want to know and need help. These souls get out infor-
mation about things few would ever learn about and go, for the
most part, completely ignored, underfinanced and receive criti-
cism where thanks are due. In our opinion these people are the
real heroes helping humanity. We have high hopes that this
situation will eventually be alleviated by their getting the
necessary funding to continue the important work they do. It is
far better that they be a shining portal of truth than to go
under due to lack of support which might prevent you and others
from getting the necessary information that could directly effect
YOUR well being.
Our question is, when will the free riders (those that never
subscribe or donate but look forward to each newsletter or new
information on the nets and bulletin boards) show their apprecia-
tion by free will support? There is so much more that could be
accomplished, but lack of financial support keeps much on hold.
For instance, we would love to create packets of information that
would provide background and updated material on many of the
issues (political, ecological, health, etc.) we have been gather-
ing news about. We have also given a great deal of consideration
to putting the newsletter out on a monthly basis in order to
provide the readers with more current information. We were even
considering merging with others to put out a joint worldwide
magazine.
We freely admit that we cannot do it by ourselves. Neither
can it be done by expanding the team then asking them to work
here full time and earn a living elsewhere. We have room to
house additional folks, but their personal expenses must be met.
All those who are in full time service cannot expect to be funded
by windfalls from a few nor should they be expected to provide
for everything from their personal funds while in full time
service. One solution might be for individuals to pledge finan-
cial support on a regular basis.
( World Commander Where Are You? )
No takers for World Commander, eh! Perhaps that means world
organizers are now "in" and we would like to support that idea by
offering to be a main organizational point for this. In addition
it might be nice to drop all titles, so from now on you can just
call me Kortron. Our work here has been slowly evolving from an
East Coast Headquarters to one of a more global focus. As infor-
mation spreads worldwide we look optimistically to the time when
the many small groups will merge into one planetary team. We are
heartened that so many are now coming out of their closets and
are less afraid to speak out and hopefully, as this group grows
larger, their combined voice will grow more audible and more will
then come forward to create a better Earth for all.
Who out there sees the logic of World Unification which
promotes the idea of a worldwide network working to create free-
dom, truth, harmony and Love on Earth? Let us hear from you
because if you are working toward that end you are already known
by the controllers (the Dark Lords) and associating with our
network will give you additional support of like-minded people.
Whatever happens we are all in it up to our necks whether you're
still "in hiding" or involved out in the open. We need your
help, input and your support and we may be able to help you.
This is definitely one case of "the more, the merrier".
( The Pyramid )
The pyramid is almost insulated and as soon as the weather
breaks in March we plan to start working on it again. The out-
side needs to be sealed against water, the chimney and fireplace
construction must be completed before we panel and put flooring
inside and there is some landscaping to be done. Needless to say
we need your continued support in order to finish this project so
we can get on to others.
We have been pleased with the many requests we have filled
for crystals charged with the love energy in the pyramid. Thanks
to all of you who have shown your support and desire to link up
with the grid from the vortex by purchasing these special stones.
The crystal gridwork is now connected to many places around the
country but there are still many exquisite crystals left for
those of you who wish to connect up in this manner. They range
in price from $20 - $75 and will be individually selected through
our inner guidance.
Peace and Love, Kortron
( Sanctuary )
We have stated that Orvotron is a center for information.
We gather it and exchange it, so our visitors are encouraged to
ask for it. However, it would be impossible to copy all the
videos, newsletters or files on and not on Spirit Bulletin Board
in a few short days. We are simultaneously amused and irritated
by those who spend countless hours at the stereo trying to make
copies of the very many cassette tapes to take home with them.
Amused because it would take months to tape everything; irritated
because this behavior does not support those who are trying to
market the information in order to continue producing it. We
would prefer that folks ask Spirit what they need to learn or
gain access to while here, not to be "information junkies" and
require everything in sight. We feel that would be much less
stressful on us and easier for all concerned in the sharing and
the giving, plus cut our equipment maintenance costs.
Nineteen Ninety-Two began in an interesting fashion here
when two souls appeared unannounced at our door. They told us
Spirit had sent them to help us and had spent their last dime to
get here. They had no means to support themselves and no means
to leave. We were not consulted prior to their arrival if we
could provide for them, or if we had any work for them to do in
exchange for room and board. Knowing that Spirit works in myste-
rious ways and since you never know who will be "an angel" we
accepted them even though there was little productive work for
them beyond insulating the pyramid in freezing weather.
A month later we were no longer "gracious hosts", the cup-
board was nearly bare and the pyramid was still not totally
insulated. They left in a huff as though there had not been a
fair exchange and we were left scratching our heads wondering
what kind of angels they were. As a result of this encounter we
learned some things and must now insist upon several courtesies
from any future guests. The first is PLEASE contact us in ad-
vance. We prefer to know when we are entertaining visitors and
are most happy when we have a referral from our "extended family"
if the guest to be is otherwise unknown to us. We simply cannot
continue to just open our doors to anyone who is passing through
looking for a place of sanctuary. On one hand we would love to
have the place and means to provide this, but on the other we put
a lot in jeopardy by taking folks totally on face value or be-
cause they say Spirit guided them here.
We are doing our best to be good hosts but some people have
expectations of what they will find here and as we've stated
previously, expectations almost always lead to disappointments.
For the must part this is an outside work camp except during the
winter when our time is spent inside trying to catch up on things
gone undone during the rest of the year. We work hard, play hard
and sometimes play at work and work while we play. Hopefully,
those who want to stay longer than a day will jump right in and
help with whatever the priority might be - whether it is work or
play.
We do take time to relax on occasion and that might very
well happen when we have visitors. So let it be known we have
some human vices that are socially unacceptable in some circles.
We eat meat once or twice a day but usually have plenty of home
grown organic vegetables to go with it and Kortron drinks a few
beers now and then. One particularly offensive person enjoyed
referring to our meat consumption as "eating dead animals" while
he gorged himself on vegetables we provided and cooked for him
straight from our garden. We have noticed that many who are
obviously put out by these indulgences because they believe it is
bad for our health are in poor physical condition themselves -
they are overweight, out of shape and have a hard time walking up
the hill to the pyramid. Others seemingly find everything here
to their liking until we say it's time to go to work then sudden-
ly that trip to town is of utmost importance. Our way to en-
lightenment at Orvotron is to chop wood and haul water. So PLEASE
don't arrive with only high heels and white outfits to wear if
you want to spend time with us. We are not running a "resort".
Speaking about what some entities put into their bodies I
have to say we are amazed at the variety of "health foods" which
come with our guests. We wonder what people will do when their
seaweed and bottles of supplements from the health food stores
are no longer available. These same entities rarely know any-
thing about the nutritious editable foods to be found in the
woods or others with medicinal qualities. They know next to
nothing about growing and storing vegetables from the looks of
their long, manicured fingernails and some seem to get upset when
I prefer to be in the garden than to talk enlightenment. One of
the neatest seminars we have had was an "herb walk" around the
property and we would love to host another.
By no means am I trying to indicate that everyone who has
visited us over the course of the past two years is an ungrateful
laggard. I just needed to do a little complaining, a little
clearing, before Spring and the rush of visitors begins again.
We enjoy having guests and understand the importance of network-
ing. However, our time must be divided between interaction with
guests, obtaining and sharing information and accomplishing work
in the rhythm of the seasons here. When it's time to plant we
must take the opportunity to do so even if we would rather be
sitting on the porch talking with our guests. For the most part
folks are willing to get involved while they are here. What
continues to surprise us is that many leave here loaded down with
information and voicing support of our efforts but apparently
don't share what they have learned and often never contact us
again. Our hope is that the "doers" will come more often in the
future and the fence sitters will rapidly awaken to their part in
creating Heaven on Earth.
With Love in the Light, SolinUs
( Subscription and Log-On Information )
We are pleased to send a "Love Copy" of the most current
newsletter to anyone you think will be interested. Just pass
your friend's name and address on to us and we will mail out the
issue compliments of you. Back issues contain much information
which is still relevant and may provide some clarity on subjects
discussed in subsequent newsletters. Love donations (which
should be made payable to Judith A. Wells) are greatly appreciat-
ed and go to Spirit's work to create Heaven on Earth.
A subscription also entitles you to log-on the Spirit Bulle-
tin Board Service, a computer/modem system with files on alter-
nate energy, UFO/extraterrestrial happenings, political, scien-
tific and medical information and much more. The files are
updated frequently and we encourage you to use and contribute to
this "library at your fingertips". You may access this informa-
tion 24 hours a day by calling 1-704-297-5973.
For a year's subscription (six bimonthly issues) and user
status on Spirit BBS please send $30.00 (USA) or $40.00 (all
other countries) in check or money order (no cash please) made
payable to:
Judith A. Wells
Route 2, Box 309B
Vilas, NC 28692
704/297-2343
-------------------------------End of Newsletter-------------------------------
Don
--
-* Don Allen *- // Only | Are you ready for SETI?
Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona | The *real* "October Surprise"
Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU!crb7q
From: crb7q@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Cameron Randale Bass)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: OIL BARONS SUPPRESS EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES
Message-ID: <1992Feb28.084857.9260@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: 28 Feb 92 08:48:57 GMT
References: <9202280005.AA08802@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 24
In article <9202280005.AA08802@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas (408)559-5363) writes:
>
>Tom Bearden, one of our upcoming speakers, may have illustrated it quite
>well by the bird sitting on top of the wire with 13,000 volts going
>through it. We all know that it could kill him but it doesn't. I am
>positive that within this group will be found the ways and means for making
>the energy situation of the future change.
>
Marge, its those new birds I've been tellin' you about. Yep, those
insulated ones. Sure saves the inconvenience of the loud pop
and whiff of ozone of the regular ones.
dale bass
P.S. try this experiment with the with bird IN the circuit and report
back. Sure beats a microwave.
--
C. R. Bass crb7q@virginia.edu
Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
University of Virginia
Charlottesville, Virginia (804) 924-7926
Path: ns-mx!uunet!infonode!macklowj
From: macklowj@infonode.ingr.com (Jim J. Macklow)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Star Systems With Habitable Planets
Message-ID: <1992Feb28.151642.10432@infonode.ingr.com>
Date: 28 Feb 92 15:16:42 GMT
References: <1992Feb21.164214.29555@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu> <1992Feb25.044729.1040@cbnewsd.att.com>
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Lines: 33
In article <1992Feb25.044729.1040@cbnewsd.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
>In article <kqen9bINNj8j@phad.hsc.usc.edu>, dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett) writes:
>>
>> Isn't it amazing that UFO sightings really started [in the UFO sense] in the mid to late '40's? Roughly 20 to 30
>> years after most of the ground-breaking research into higher frequencies in radio. And has increased stedily since
>
>I used to be an avid UFO buff for at least 10 years straight('68-78')
>approximately. I remember reading about sightings of dirigibles in the
>mid to late 1800's before they were manufactured and used.
>If this is accurate, they first appeared in modern times in the form
>of airships or zeppelins. It wasn't until mid 1940'(?) they were sighted
>as flying discs near Mt. Ranier in Washington state.
>Any support?
>
>barry olson
This probably isn't what you're looking for, but in Japan there's a very
popular "legend" called Kagume-hime which is about a girl from the stars
who fell to earth. A woodsman found her, and years later, when she had
grown, her parents flew to earth in a ship from the far side of the moon
and took her home.
The strangest thing about the story (to me) is that the woodsman found
the girl _inside_ a bamboo stalk. He cut it open and there she was.
This story is thousands of years old, so I guess it doesn't count as an
eyewitness account. Probably doesn't count as a UFO account, since the
woodsman's family _knew_ the ship was a starship. Can't remember if a
shape is given in the story; I can check at home later.
Just some food for thought from the Far East's far past.
-Jim
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!ux.acs.umn.edu!csd1227
From: csd1227@ux.acs.umn.edu (Greg Larson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Feb28.115158.3801@ux.acs.umn.edu>
Date: 28 Feb 92 11:51:58 GMT
References: <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> <1992Feb27.180500.3855@aero.org>
Organization: University of Minnesota
Lines: 13
In article <1992Feb27.180500.3855@aero.org> robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:
>In article <88TRgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:
>>
>> [inanities ommitted]
>>
>
>Stollman, you are a LUNATIC. PLEASE commit yourself to an institution
>before you hurt yourself or anyone else.
>
>RS
And those who get their jollies by tormenting those they perceive to be
mentally ill could use some professional help themselves.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!aero.org!robert
From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Feb28.183455.29276@aero.org>
Date: 28 Feb 92 18:34:55 GMT
References: <qk9sgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Sender: news@aero.org
Organization: Ssaymssik Inc.
Lines: 6
Gary, Gary, Gary........
You're the only one left. And we WILL get you; it's just a matter of
time.....
RS
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!astro.as.utexas.edu!defonso
From: defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control
Message-ID: <67517@ut-emx.uucp>
Date: 28 Feb 92 17:22:50 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp>
Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin
Lines: 21
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4728 alt.conspiracy:12685 talk.religion.newage:9528
In article <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:
>
[unbelievable amount of crack-induced blather
about military/alien/tooth-fairy takeover of the world deleted...]
>--
>-* Don Allen *- // Only | Are you ready for SETI?
>Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
>UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona | The *real* "October Surprise"
>Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
Does this guy actually make a living writing this stuff? Maybe he's
smarter than I thought =-)
--
Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In Search Of...a good .sig **** "When in doubt, tell the truth." - Twain
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!fauern!unido!mcsun!news.funet.fi!network.jyu.fi!tola
From: tola@jyu.fi (Teemu Olavi Lahteenmaki)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: HUMANOID.GIF (Picture from the Roswell incident ?)
Keywords: Roswell, UFO, GIF, humanoids
Message-ID: <1992Feb28.001948.3493@jyu.fi>
Date: 28 Feb 92 00:19:48 GMT
Distribution: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Lines: 916
This is a gif picture scanned from a book about the Roswell-incident.
Picture has real bad quality - but it's good enough to reconize what it is
about. It is said, that there are two military police here guarding
suvirved humanoid from the UFO-crash (at Roswell, New Mexico, USA, 1947).
It is not known is this picture really related to this Roswell-UFO, nor
is it known where and when the picture was taken (anyway the picture
was given to FBI agent in 1950 at New Orleans).
To view it, save it and UUDECODE it and there it is !
NOTE: I am not taking any opinion of the 'reality' of the picture,
figure it out your self !
--- before UUDECODE, delete everything before this line -------------
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end
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.ans.net!nynexst.com!mirage!pjc
From: pjc@mirage.nynexst.com (Peter Colonel)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control
Message-ID: <1992Feb28.203523.8613@nynexst.com>
Date: 28 Feb 92 20:35:23 GMT
References: <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp> <67517@ut-emx.uucp>
Sender: news@nynexst.com (For News purposes)
Reply-To: pjc@mirage.nynexst.com (Peter Colonel)
Organization: Nynex Science & Technology
Lines: 26
In article <67517@ut-emx.uucp>, defonso@astro.as.utexas.edu (Eric Defonso) writes:
|> In article <1992Feb19.183545.14020@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:
|> >
|>
|> [unbelievable amount of crack-induced blather
|> about military/alien/tooth-fairy takeover of the world deleted...]
|>
|> >--
|> >-* Don Allen *- // Only | Are you ready for SETI?
|> >Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
|> >UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona | The *real* "October Surprise"
|> >Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
|>
|> Does this guy actually make a living writing this stuff? Maybe he's
|> smarter than I thought =-)
|>
|>
|> --
|> Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)
|> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|> In Search Of...a good .sig **** "When in doubt, tell the truth." - Twain
|> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Since you failed to read the article completely, you missed the disclaimer
at the top of the article. Try to do your homework before slamming Don.
What have you offered to the net?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Forwarded Belgian UFO Info
Keywords: sci.space post
Message-ID: <298@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 28 Feb 92 23:14:10 GMT
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 246
The following is a repost of a sci.space post. I thought maybe
you would like to read this since I know some people don't get
sci.space (Hi Jim! :-).
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-FWD sci.space post-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: PHARABOD@FRCPN11.IN2P3.FR
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Belgian mysteries
Message-ID: <Added.kdfUcCu00UkT44d09g@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: 28 Feb 92 16:01:40 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: The Internet
Lines: 215
The following is a report written by the secretarial staff of the
Belgian Air Force staff. Any comments? J. Pharabod
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
REPORT ON THE OBSERVATION OF UFOs DURING THE NIGHT OF MARCH 30-31, 1990
1.Introduction
a. This report gives an overall view of the reports from the concerned
Air Force units and of the reports from ocular witnesses of the
gendarmerie patrols, about the unknown phenomena watched in the
air space (hereafter called UFOs), south of the axis Brussels-
Tirlemont, during the night of March 30-31,1990.
b. The observations, visual and radar, were of such a nature that the
take off of two F-16 of the 1 J Wing has been decided, in order to
identify these UFOs.
c. This report has been established by Major Lambrechts, VS/3 Ctl-Met 1.
2. Context.
Since the beginning of December 1989, strange phenomena have been
regularly noticed in the Belgian air space. The Air Force has at its
disposal several ocular witnesses, most of them having been informed
by the gendarmerie. The Air Force radar stations could not confirm, in
any case, up to March 30-31, these sightings, and the presence of the
UFOs could never be established by the fighters sent in that order. The
Air Force staff has been able to produce several hypotheses about the
origin of these UFOs. The presence or the testing of B-2 or F-117 A
(stealth), RPV (Remotely Piloted Vehicles), ULM (Ultra Light Motorised)
and AWACS in the Belgian air space during the facts can be excluded.
The cabinet of the MLV (Ministery of National Defense) has been informed
about these discoveries. In the meantime, the SOBEPS (Societe Belge
d'Etude des Phenomenes Spatiaux) got in touch with the MLV, in order
that the MLV backed the SOBEPS in its inquiries about this phenomenon.
This request has been accepted, and after that the Air Force has
regularly cooperated with this society.
3. Chronological summary of the events during the night of March 30-31,
1990.
Note: local time.
March 30:
23 h 00: The supervisor responsible (MC) for the Glons CRC (Control
Reporting Center) receives a phone call from Mr. A. Renkin, gendarmerie
MDL, who certifies to see, from his home at Ramillies, three unusual
lights towards Thorembais-Gembloux. These lights are distinctly more
intense than stars and planets, they don't move and are located at the
apexes of an equilateral triangle. Their color is changing: red, green
and yellow.
23 h 05: The Glons CRC asks the Wavre gendarmerie to send a patrol at
this place in order to confirm this sighting.
23 h 10: A new call from Mr. Renkin points out a new phenomenon: three
other lights move towards the first triangle. One of these lights is
far brighter than the others. The Glons CRC observes in the meantime
an unidentified radar contact, about 5 km north of the Beauvechain
airport. The contacts moves at about 25 knots towards west.
23 h 28: A gendarmerie patrol including, among others, Captain Pinson,
is on the premises and confirms Mr. Renkin's sightings. Captain Pinson
describes the observed phenomenon as follows: the bright points have
the dimension of a big star(*); their color changes continually. The
prevailing color is red; then it changes itself in blue, green, yellow
and white, but not always in the same order. The lights are very clear,
as if they were signals: this enables to distinguish them from stars.
23 h 30 - 23 h 45: The three new lights, in the meantime, have drawn
closer to the first observed triangle. In their turn, after a series
of erratic moves, they arrange themselves also in triangular formation.
In the mean time, the Glons CRC observes the phenomenon on radar.
23 h 49 - 23 h 59: The Semmerkaze TCC/RP (Traffic Center Control/
Reporting Post) confirms in its turn to have a clear radar contact at
the same position pointed out by the Glons CRC.
23 h 56: After prerequisite coordination with the SOC II, and since
all conditions are fulfilled to make the QRA take off, the Glons CRC
gives the scramble order to the 1 J Wing.
23 h 45 - 00 h 15: The bright points are still clearly observed from
ground. Their respective position does not change. The whole formation
seems to move slowly in comparison with the stars. The ocular witnesses
on ground notice that the UFOs send from time to time brief and more
intense luminous signals. In the mean time, two weaker luminous points
are observed towards Eghezee. Those, as the others, have also brief and
erratic moves.
March 31:
00 h 05: Two F-16, QRA of J Wing, AL 17 and AL 23, take off. Between
00 h 07 and 00 h 54, under control of the CRC, on the whole nine
interception attempts have been undertaken by the fighters. The planes
have had, several times, brief radar contacts on the targets designated
by the CRC. In three cases, the pilots managed to lock on the target
during a few seconds, which, each time, induced a drastic change in
the comportment of the UFOs. In no case, the pilots have had a visual
contact with the UFOs.
00 h 13: First lock on the target designated by the CRC. Position:
"on the nose" 6 NM (Nautical Miles), 9000 feet, direction: 250. The
target speed changes within minimum time from 150 to 970 knots,
altitude coming down from 9000 to 5000 feet, then up to 11000 feet,
and, shortly after, down to ground level. From this results a "break
lock" after some seconds, the pilot losing the radar contact. The
Glons radar informs, at the moment of the break lock, that the
fighters are above the target position.
+/- 00 h 19 - 00 h 30: The Semmerkaze TCC as well as the Glons CRC
have lost contact with the target. From time to time a contact appears
in the region, but they are too few to have a clear track. In the
meantime, the pilots contact on VHF the radio of the civilian air
traffic, in order to coordinate their moves with the Brussels TMA.
The radio contact on UHF is maintained with the Glons CRC.
00 h 30: AL 17 has a radar contact at 5000 feet, 20 NM away Beauvechain
(Nivelles), position 255. The target moves at very high speed (740
knots). The lock on lasts during 6 seconds, and, at the break lock, the
signal of a jamming appears on the scope.
+/- 00 h 30: The ground witnesses see three times the F-16 pass along.
During the third pass, they see the planes turning in circles at the
center of the great formation initially seen. At the same time, they
notice the disappearance of the little triangle, while the brightest,
western point of the big triangle moves very fast, probably up. This
point emits intense red signals, in a repetitive way, during the
manoeuvre. The two other points of the great triangle disappear shortly
after. The clear points above Eghezee are no longer visible, and only
the western brightest point of the triangle can be observed.
00 h 32: The Glons and Semmerkaze radars have a contact at 110 / 6 NM
away Beauvechain, which heads for Bierset at 7000 feet and high speed.
The registered speeds go from 478 to 690 knots. The contact is lost
above Bierset. The Maastricht radar control center has had no contact
with this UFO.
00 h 39 - 00 h 41: The Glons CRC mentions a possible contact at 10 NM
from the planes, altitude 10000 feet. The pilots have a radar contact
at 7 NM. Again is noticed an acceleration of the target from 100 to
600 knots. The lock on lasts only a few seconds, and the planes as
well as the CRC lose the contact.
00 h 47: The Beauvechain RAPCON mentions a contact on its radar, at
6500 feet altitude, position away Beauvechain: 160 / 5 NM. The Glons
CRC has also a contact on the same position. This one is observed up
to 00 h 56.
00 h 45 - 01 h 00: Some attempts are undertaken in order to intercept
the UFOs. The planes register only a few very short radar contacts.
The ground observers see the last UFO disappear towards Louvain-la-
Neuve (NNW). Around 01 h 00, the UFO has completely disappeared.
01 h 02: AL 17 and AL 23 quit the frequency of the Glons CRC and go
back to their base.
01 h 06: The Jodoigne gendarmerie mentions to the Glons CRC that has
just been observed a phenomenon like the one observed by Mr. Renkin
at 23 h 15.
01 h 10: Landing of AL 17.
01 h 16: Landing of AL 23.
01 h 18: Captain Pinson, who in the meantime has gone to the Jodoigne
gendarmerie, describes his observation as follows: four luminous white
points at the apexes of a square, the center of which is Jodoigne. The
UFO seen towards Orp-Jauche (SW of Jodoigne) is the brightest and has
a yellow-red color. The luminous points move with jerky and short moves.
+/- 01 h 30: The UFOs lose their luminosity and seem to disappear in
four distinct directions.
4. General information.
a. Meteo. The data mentioned by the Air Force Wing Meteo regarding the
concerned area and during the night of March 30-31, 1990, are the
following:
Visibility: 8 to 15 km with clear sky. Wind at 10000 feet: 50/60
knots. A slight temperature inversion at ground, and another, as
slight, at 3000 feet. These data are confirmed in Captain Pinson's
report. He mentions also that the stars were clearly visible.
b. Because of lack of appropriate material, the ground observers could
not make any photo or film of the phenomenon.
c. The UFO observed with a telescope is described as follows: a kind
of sphere, a part of which is very luminous; a triangular shape
could also be distinguished (For a more detailed observation, see
Captain Pinson's report, in appendix H1).
5. Constatations.
a. In contradiction with other pointed out UFO sightings, for the first
time a radar contact has been positively observed, in corrrelation
with different sensors of the Air Force (CRC, TCC, RAPCON, EBBE and
F-16 radar), and this in the same area as visual observations. This
has to be explained by the fact that the March 30-31 UFOs have been
noticed at +/- 10000 feet altitude, whereas in the former cases
there was always talk of visual contacts at very low altitude.
b. The visual evidences, on which this report is partially based, come
from gendarmes in duty, whose objectivity cannot be questioned.
c. The UFOs, as soon as seen by the F-16 radar in the "Target Track"
mode (after interception), have drastically changed their parameters.
The speeds measured at that time and the altitude shifts exclude the
hypothesis according to which planes could be mistaken for the
oberved UFOs. The slow moves during the other phases differ also
from the moves of planes.
d. The fighter pilots never have had visual contact with the UFOs. This
can be explained by the changes of luminous intensity, and even the
disappearance of the UFOs, when the F-16 arrived in the neighborhood
of the place where they were observed from the ground.
e. The hypothesis according to which it was an optical illusion, a
mistake for planets, or any other meteorological phenomenon, is
in contradiction with the radar observations, especially the
10000 feet altitude and the geometrical position of the UFOs
between themselves. The geometrical formation tends to prove a
program.
f. The first observation of the slow motion of the UFOs has been made
roughly in the same direction and with the same speed as the wind.
The direction differs by 30 degrees from the direction of the
wind (260 degrees instead of 230 degrees). The hypothesis of
sounding balloons is very improbable. The UFOs altitude during all
this phase remained 10000 feet, whereas the sounding balloons go on
higher and higher, up to burst at around 100000 feet. It is difficult
to explain the bright lights and changes of color with such balloons.
It is very improbable that balloons stay at the same altitude during
more than one hour, while keeping the same position between
themselves. In Belgium, during the radar observation, there was no
meteorological inversion in progress. The hypothesis according to
which it could be other balloons must be absolutely dismissed.
g. Though speeds greater than the sound barrier have been measured
several times, not any bang has been noticed. Here also, no
explanation can be given.
h. Though the different ground witnesses have effectively pointed out
eight points in the sky, the radars have registered only one contact
at the same time. The points have been seen at a distance one from
another sufficient for them to be distinguished by the radars also.
No plausible explanation can be put forward.
i. The hypothesis of air phenomena resulting from projection of
holograms(*) must be excluded too: the laser projectors should have
been normally observed by the pilots on flight. Moreover, the
hologram cannot be detected by radar, and a laser projection can be
seen only if there is a screen, like clouds for example. Here, the
sky was clear, and there was no significant temperature inversion.
(end of report)
(*)sic
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-End of FWD'ed post-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Steve
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!dam137
From: DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Habitable Planet's Table
Message-ID: <92059.192113DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: 29 Feb 92 00:21:13 GMT
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 135
At the continuing request of reader's of this forum, I am posting this
table that shows probablity of habitable planets around other stars, plus
some other facts about habitable worlds...
Share and Enjoy...
Dave
***************************************************************************
The following posting is a summary written by my friend and
co-worker, Drew LePage, of an article in the January 1992 issue of
the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS), Volume 45,
Number 1. Titled "An Estimate of the Prevalence of Biocompatible
and Habitable Planets", it is authored by M. J. Fogg.
########################################################################
There is a very interesting article in the January 1992 edition
of the JOURNAL OF THE BRITISH INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY (JBIS) on the
likelihood of various types of stars having habitable or biocompatible
planets. A biocompatible planet is one where the long term presence
of surface liquid water provides environmental conditions suitable for
for the origin and evolution of life. There are three subsets of
biocompatible planets:
* Juvenile Martian - As the name implies, it is a planet with condition
similar to those found on Mars early in its life. The planet would
receive between 27% and 75% of the light we presently receive from the
Sun and possess plate tectonics or some other geochemical carbon cycle.
Mars was this type for its first one billion years.
* Juvenile Terran - Again as the name implies, this is a planet with
conditions similar to those found on the early Earth. The planet
would receive between 75% and 95% of the light we presently receive
from the Sun and be geologically active. Earth was this type of planet
for its first four billion years (i.e. during the Precambrian period).
* Habitable - This is a planet with Earthlike conditions. The planet
would receive between 95% and 110% of the light we receive and be
geologically active.
The author of the study collected the results of various studies
to determine what conditions produce biocompatible and habitable
planets, the evolution of stars and the effects on planetary environ-
ments, the likely distribution of planets in other systems, as well
as others. The results of the author's simulations indicate the
following:
* Habitable planets can exist around stars with 0.8 to 1.8 times the
mass of the Sun.
* Biocompatible planets can exist around stars with 0.5 to 1.8 times the
mass of the Sun.
* Habitable planets may occur around >3% of the stars between 0.85 and
1.45 times the mass of the Sun.
* Biocompatible planets may occur around >30% of the stars between 0.8
and 1.25 time the mass of the Sun.
If only single stars possess planets:
* There would be one habitable planet for every 413 stars.
* The mean distance between systems with habitable planets would be
31 light years.
* There would be one biocompatible planet for every 39 stars.
* The mean distance between systems with biocompatible planets would be
14 light years.
* There would be about 362 biocompatible (of which 34 would be habitable)
planets within 100 light years of us.
If planets could form in multiple star systems:
* There would be one habitable planet for every 196 stars.
* The mean distance between systems with habitable planets would be 24
light years.
* There would be one biocompatible planet for every 18 stars.
* The mean distance between systems with biocompatible planets would be
11 light years.
* There would be about 763 biocompatible (of which 71 would be habitable)
planets within 100 light years of us.
The author goes further and calculates the probability of the
nearer stars having biocompatible or habitable planets. Assuming that
planets can form in multiple star systems the following probabilities
were calculated:
Name Distance (LY) Type Habitable Biocompatible
Alpha Centauri A 4.38 G2V 7.8% 44%
Alpha Centauri B 4.38 K6V 4.4% 38%
Epsilon Eridani 10.69 K2V 0.6% 34%
61 Cygni A 11.17 K5V 0.0% 5.8%
61 Cygni B 11.17 K7V 0.0% 0.3%
Epsilon Indi 11.21 K5V 0.0% 18%
Lacille 9352 11.69 M2 0.0% <0.3%
Tau Ceti 11.95 G8V 1.5% 35%
Lacille 8760 12.54 M1V 0.0% 1.5%
Groombridge 1618 15.03 K7 0.0% 2.5%
70 Ophiuchi A 16.73 K1 4.4% 38%
70 Ophiuchi B 16.73 K6 0.0% 16%
36 Ophiuchi A 17.73 K0V 0.0% 28%
36 Ophiuchi B 17.73 K1V 0.0% 27%
36 Ophiuchi C 17.73 K5V 0.0% 9.0%
HR 7703 A 18.43 K3V 0.0% 27%
Sigma Draconis 18.53 K0V 1.5% 35%
Delta Pavonis 18.64 G5 5.1% 39%
Eta Cassiopeiae A 19.19 G0V 3.9% 38%
Eta Cassiopeiae B 19.19 M0 0.0% 0.7%
HD 36395 19.19 M1V 0.0% 0.5%
Wolf 294 19.41 M4 0.0% <0.3%
+5301320 A 19.65 M0 0.0% 0.6%
+5301320 B 19.65 M0 0.0% 0.5%
-45013677 20.6 M0 0.0% <0.3%
82 Eridani 20.9 G5 4.4% 38%
Beta Hydri 21.3 G1 7.5% 35%
HR 8832 21.4 K3 0.0% 23%
Assuming that the author's simulations and calculations are
correct, there could be as many as 5.6 BILLION biocompatible planets
in our galaxy of which about 500 MILLION are habitable. And, as the
above table shows, the nearest biocompatible planet could only be
4.38 light years away.
Drew LePage
=========================================================================
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbfsb!cbnewsc!chapin
From: chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin )
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Dispassionate Scientific Discussion
Message-ID: <1992Feb29.055814.14577@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>
Date: 29 Feb 92 05:58:14 GMT
Organization: Hickory Ridge - Lisle, IL
Lines: 7
Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4535 alt.alien.visitors:4733 sci.skeptic:21171
>You've got your head shoved so far up your as, you can't see daylight.
This must be some of that scientific objectivity in discussion I've
been hearing so much about...the mark of true science...
--
tom chapin tjc@hrccb.att.com
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <1992Feb29.182327.9072@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Date: 29 Feb 92 18:23:27 GMT
References: <92056.111721DAM137@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Feb26.094243.2022@csi.compuserve.com> <zzzk.699178139@jacobs> <1992Feb28.013543.15518@csi.compuserve.com>
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4734 sci.space:27201 sci.skeptic:21189 alt.paranormal:4543
dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com (Dave Zecchini) writes:
|> Thus, if you're looking at it simply from an odds-for-or-against
|>viewpoint, the odds AGAINST it being a face increase dramatically.
|> And that's what I was asked. The odds against.
nonono....I am talking odds in the sense of gambling; do you want to bet
$10,000 against my $10?
josh
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen
From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Summary: Daily Meditations for Peace at noon.
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <1992Mar1.082051.19903@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Date: 1 Mar 92 08:20:51 GMT
Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 104
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4735 alt.pagan:13226 alt.paranormal:4544 talk.religion.newage:9554
Since today is February 29, the Leap Day, a once in a four year
experience, I figured that now would be an synchronistically
appropriate time to post this. :) This is another excerpt from the
book "Bashar: Blueprint for Change - A Message from Our Future",
written by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing.
The Peace Clock as described below was started in December 1987, and
the efforts of the people participating in it, as well as of other
groups and individuals who have been working and praying for peace and
understanding on our Earth, have really been working, as can be seen
from the recent dramatic changes of the world scene since 1987 for the
better. Let us not stop here - there are more transformations awaiting
us! Let us step into the conscious creating of our own realities:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----- PEACE IN OUR LIFETIME -----
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< PEACE CLOCK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------ A WORLDWIDE EVENT ------
STARTING NOW: Wherever you are, perform a silent meditation for world
peace EVERY DAY AT NOON FOR ONE FULL MINUTE.
THE GOAL: To have EVERY PERSON ON EARTH performing this event by the
year 2000.
- SYNCHRONIZED INTENTION IS THE KEY -
o With an alarm, a bell, a note or any other method that works for you,
remind yourself with it is noon in your time zone.
o Acquire the active participation of your company, your school,
community, city, state and nation.
o Involve radio and television. Have them broadcast the PEACE CLOCK
name, slogan and logo, accompanied by one minute of silence every day.
o Above all: approach all interactions with others in peaceful,
constructive and creative ways.
o Copy and share this information with as many people as you can.
o Report your participation, or write for further information to:
PEACE CLOCK, P.O. Box 8307, Calabasas, CA 91302
NOTE: Peace Clock flyers and cardboard master copies are available in
12 languages (8 1/2 x 11), as are 5x7 post cards. Write to: Dorothy
Compinsky, 2717 Arizona Ave., #5, Santa Monica, CA 90404, U.S.A.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At this time ([which was initially started in] December, 1987) we
would like to suggest to you a project we have called the Peace Clock.
A very simple idea, but very impactful. It goes as follows:
Step one: every single day of your time, at noon in your time
zone - for one full minute at noon time - meditate on world peace in
any way that is comfortable for you. See your world enjoying the idea
of peace and harmony, in any way you wish to imagine, or visualize.
What you will be creating is a motion, a momentum, an electromagnetic
thrust around your planet - for we recognize you have many different
time zones on your world.
If at midday in your time zone that entire slice,
one-twenty-fourth of your planet, is focused for one minute in
meditation on world peace - and then the next slice, and the next
slice, all the way around your planet, around and around and around,
day after day - you will actually generate an electromagnetic momentum
that will almost literally spin you, before you know it, into fourth
density, into synchronicity all around you.
Allow yourselves to truly feel the strength of your power, for
you *are* empowered. If you know that *every single individual has a
profound impact upon your entire planet*, you will change your world
in ways you have not yet imagined - very rapidly. You will be
accelerating your world at such a pace that if this is accomplished by
your year 2000, then beginning from that year many things will happen
you will perhaps hardly even believe.
Now, step two: take that information - that idea of the
one-minute meditation at noon - and share it with as many as you
possibly can. Involve individuals, cities and whole communities,
states and nations; all levels of society. Involve your radio and your
television media, so that at 12 noon every day they will also allow
the one minute of silent meditation. Remind everyone with a tone, if
you wish, or with a comment. All participating.
The basic goal is to have every individual - yes, every *single*
individual - on your planet doing that one-minute meditation by
January 1, 2000. You will find such a high degree of accelerated
energy focused on world peace around your world that you will be able
to have the foundations laid down for one world between 1990 and the
year 2000. No later than 2013, 2011....
AND THERE WILL INDEED BE PEACE IN OUR TIME.
--
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
| Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen | pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
| "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to |
- you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be -
| with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dispassionate Scientific Discussion
Message-ID: <1992Feb29.201747.16159@rosevax.rosemount.com>
Date: 29 Feb 92 20:17:47 GMT
References: <1992Feb29.055814.14577@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>
Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Lines: 14
Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4547 alt.alien.visitors:4736 sci.skeptic:21200
Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius
chapin@cbnewsc.cb.att.com ( Tom Chapin) writes:
: >You've got your head shoved so far up your as, you can't see daylight.
:
: This must be some of that scientific objectivity in discussion I've
: been hearing so much about...the mark of true science...
Could be, I've heard that the situation can be aided by the surgical
installation of a plexiglass navel :-)
--
Grant Edwards |Yow! My life is a patio of
Rosemount Inc. |fun!
|
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com |
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: (STORY) Brazilian UFO Magazine Reports
Keywords: UFO article
Message-ID: <290@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 26 Feb 92 13:16:37 GMT
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 145
Found this Article in my vast UFO collection (Yea Right :-). I
thought it my be interesting to read since there some threads
out there about terrestrial space missions like Phobos, Viking
Lander etc etc.
---------------------------------Inserted Article----------------------
The following article, translated from its original Portuguese, is
reprinted with permission from the Sept/Oct, 1985 issue of Brazil's
UFOLOGIA, possibly the largest-circulated UFO magazine in the world with
30,000 circulation. Translator Catherine Solange is now working on
another UFOLOGIA story, also by Luis Gonzaga, which attempts to explain
a theory of extraterrestrial classification based on spiritual
hierarchies.
SOVIETS RELEASE INFORMATION ABOUT E.T.-ASTRONAUT CONTACT ON SALYUT
MISSION. By: Luis Gonzaga Sortecci de Paula
UFO crew members appeared in space and interacted extensively
with the three Solviet cosmonauts who linked up with Salyut 6 in early
1981. Surprisingly, the U.S.S.R. has elected to release some ot the
information on the history-making encounter.
During their Salyut 6 msiiion that began in March and ended in
late May, 1981, Soviet cosmonauts Vladimir Kivalyonok and Viktor
Savinikh maintained extraordinary contact with three human
interplanetary aliens. For an extended period of time, the cosmonauts
watched as these aliens operated an extremely advanced, circular
spaceship ringed with portholes.
Public awareness of this event was held back until 1984, when
the September 24 issue of `Manchete' was published. Displayed on that
issue's cover was the face of international model Jushiu Manegal, In a
relatively minor position on the inside left-hand corner of the cover we
read the sensational words: "Russians Encounter UFO's".
For approximately four days, with periodic interruptions, the
Salyut 6 and the round UFO orbited 400 kilometers above Earth. The crews
interfaced to approximately 30 meters of distance between their two
craft.
Shaped like a ball, the alien ship measured an estimated 9 to 10
meters in diameter. The circumference of the UFO was ringed with eight
symmetrical portholes, or windows. Sixteen additional transparent areas,
eight above and eight below the UFO's center area, were lit up in a way
that sugeested some automatedform of lighting.
By this interior light, the cosmonauts were able to observe a
relatively conventional-looking cabin space within the craft, exhibiting
control panels, chairs, retaining walls and other equipment and
structures. The surface sheen of the craft looked metallic. No obivous
points of entry and exit were seen, and the Soviets also noted a
remarkable absence of assumed necesities on the ship's
exterior-identifying marks, antennae, optical systems terminals, solar
panels and the like.
The encounter was initiated on May 14, when through his
porthole, cosmonaut Kovalyonok spotted the round object in front of the
Salyut 6 from about 1,000 meters distance. He had made out the ship's
portholes with long-distance binoculars.
The following day, the cosmonauts were surprised to see that the
UFO had moved in much closer, within 100 meters of the Salyut. Since
their unterstanding of propulsion systems was limited to the disposable
resources of Earth's rocket technology, the cosmonauts were perplexed
that the UFO could produce such a vast alteration of its orbit: If
rockets were used for propulsion, escape hatches for attendant fuel
emissions were noticably lacking on the aliens' stark craft!
Positioned by the portholes were three beings of human aspect
clearly making various gestures. They were of a solemn and serene
countenance, reminiscent of devout Hindus, with straight noses and thick
eyebrows visible above their enormous, slanted blue eyes. They looked
out at the cosmonauts with a deep and penetrating gaze, yet displayed no
emotional qualities in terms of our understanding of emotions.
At one point, the cosmonauts asked their Soviet base of command
for permission to make contact with these unknown voyagers. The
immediate response that got back was a decisive and definite, "no," that
the only manner of contact they could utilize must be instrumental.
Little by little, the alien ship was getting closer to the
Salyut, and at an unimaginable velocity. Ti would appear and disappear
at various angles. For frations of a second, it would disappear behind
the Earth and then reappear in a new relative position, stopping
abruptly with no apparent effect on the crew members. In one of its
reappearances, the alien ship stopped within 30 meters of the Salyut.
On impulse, cosmonaut Kovalyonok opened a celestial map and took
it to the window. To his amazement, he noticed that two of the aliens
did exactly the same thing, opening a map so that Kovalyonok could
clearly perceive out solar system in the upper right-hand corner, along
with many other celestial bodies not identified during the brief time
the map was glimped.
Without knowing exactly how to proceed , the Soviet cosmonauts
waved and offered a "thumbs up" gesture of fraternity-and they returned
it. Tentative communication was achieved by instruments, but did't
evolve to the level desired.
Using a high-potency light source, the Soviet cosmonauts used
Morse Code to welcome the visitors in Russian. There was no reaction
from the aliens. The Soviets tried English: "Are you reading us?" again,
no reaction. On the third try, still in Morse Code, the cosmonauts
tranmitted a binary number: 101101, which expressed a certain geometric
figure. The aliens responded with another sequence of numbers, not the
same as theirs. Later the cosmonauts verified that the aliens had
transmitted the value of the letter "E," based on a logarithmic
configuration applied frequently by the computers on Salyut 6, when
programmed to graphically linearize the relative curves of a complex
mathematical function.
Dressed in the same spacesuits they were wearing on board, which
looked like diving suits with visors, the aliens left their ship and
floated in space. They made strange movements, as if they were sitting
in chairs. They wore no knapsacks of any other kind of apparatus that
normally would be used to maintain life as it's known on Earth.
At the end of the fourth day, the aliens went away and didn't
reappear. It left the cosmonauts with a strange feeling of homesickness,
in the words of one ot the Russian crew.
Members of Russia's military and scientific communities met with
the cosmonauts on June 18, 1981, to view photographs and film footage
taken on the mission. Cosmonaut Kovalyonok was bombarded with questions
and responded to them all. Later he was silenced under the restrictive
label, "top secret," until, for reasons still not clearly explicated, he
was offically allowed to go public by determination of the Kremlin.
Footnote: Author Gonzaga lives in Brazil's capital, Brasilia, where he's
spearheading a community project to facilitate contact and
communication between Earthlings and extraterrestrials.
--------------------------------EOF------------------------------------
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A field trip on an extraterrestrial spacecraft.
Keywords: 11:11
Message-ID: <291@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 26 Feb 92 18:19:27 GMT
References: <1992Feb24.020157.12139@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Feb26.092511.19792@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 24
pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
>The passage is another excerpt from the book "Bashar: Blueprint for
>Change. A Message from Our Future", by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing,
>which is "channeled" from an extraterrestrial named Bashar (although
>don't let that label add to or take away from the feeling.) For those
>who have been expressing interest in this book, it is 302 pages
>($13.95 or so) available from New Solutions Publishing; Seattle, WA;
>ISBN# 1-56284-113-0. The back cover of it reads as follows:
Ahmmmm thanks but no thanks. You just convicted me not to buy the
book. Keep up the good work, the first thing that made me suspect
is you following-up on your own post. If it wasn't for you Walter
I might have bought this loser :-).
Steve
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!rutgers!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: California CE-3's
Summary: Speaking of Light Beams
Keywords: UFO Light Beams
Message-ID: <292@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 27 Feb 92 16:24:50 GMT
References: <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu> <jms.07iv@vanth.UUCP>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 62
In article <jms.07iv@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:
>In article <gdhhrrn@lynx.unm.edu> vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus) writes:
>>In article <jms.07gd@vanth.UUCP> jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:
>>>Yesterday I saw an ABC news report on an anonymous family in California who
>>>claim that they're visited by aliens every night. The aliens probe them
>>>with beams of light, sometimes right through the ceiling of the house while
>>>the family is awake. They made drawings of the ships and they look fairly
>>
>> Couldn't be beams of light - ceilings tend to stop those.
>
>You're right of course, but remember that a lot of UFO reports tend to have
>paranormal elements.
Here's another press clipping that I have a copy of about beams of
light you might be interested in. Something that also seems paranormal
to me.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Included Article-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Soviets: UFO beamed light, green cloud
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
MOSCOW- The crew and passangers of a Soviet airliner flying at
night over Minsk spotted an unidentified flying object that sent beams of
light to the ground below, the newspaper `Trud' said Wednesday.
The UFO lef a green cloud in its wake that flew alongside the airliner at
an altitude of 30,000 feet until it landed in Latvia, said the newspaper.
"The pilots saw what appeared to be a large, blinking star suddenly shed a
thin ray of light which fell plumb down on the ground," `Trud' said. It was
followed by two light beams which formed a cone.
All four crew members in the cockpit reported that they "could see
distinctly everything down in the sector of the ground illuminated be the
cone-shaped shaft of light, the houses and the roads."
The light suddenly shot back into the UFO, which they said was hovering at
25 to 30 miles in the air. "It then flared up, leaving a greeen cloud in
its stead," the report said, without giving a date.
"The green cloud then dropped straight down below the altitude at which the
airliner was cruising, then climbed up again in a similiar fashion,
positioning itself right opposite the plane at a height of 10,000 meters
[30,000 feet] and accompanying it in this way till the end of the flight
like an honorary escort," the pilot reported.
Nikolai Zheltukhin, a member of the Academy of Sciences, said there was
only one conclusion: "The airliner's crew encountered what we call an
unidentified flying object."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=End of Story-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Steve
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Tesla Info via Packet
Keywords: Tesla HamRadio Packet
Message-ID: <296@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 28 Feb 92 11:12:47 GMT
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 56
I know this isn't directly related to this newsgroup but there are
a few people that have mentioned Tesla here already so I'll do the
same. I just grabbed this off of `Amatuer Packet Radio'. It looks
like someone wants to setup a Tesla Packet database in Newark, NJ.
Clark: Maybe they frequent your BBS and snagged your Rex Research
Stuff :-). I'm going to send them a message to see what its all
about.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-MSG via Amatuer Packet Radio-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
MSG # TR SIZE TO FROM @BBS DATE TITLE
544 B# 1697 TESLA KA2RIT ALLUSA 920227 TESLA DATABASE EXCHANGE
Forwarding path: WB3EUF N3FOA N3DFD KF2AW KB1BD KB2EAR KA2CHO KA2RIT
Tesla Coil Data Exchange
KA2RIT/WB2FGX
Newark,NJ.
*************************************************************************
This is address to all those Amatuer Radio Operators who have an interest
in, building and experimenting with Tesla coils. The purpose of this
bulletin is to determine whether or not there will be a need to open
up a PBBS database,here at KA2RIT BBS. If there's should be a big
respond's to this bulletin, then there will be a database setup here.
With the purpose to be able to share information and idea's with others
on this topic.As replys come in there will be list made up and posted
at all USA's BBs.With names,callsigns and address of all those with
an interest. When replying back please leave a brief message as to what
you are doing or have don with Tesla coils,Along with your
NAME,QTH, CALLSIGN AND HOME BBS.
Name: John
QTH: (Elizabeth, NJ)
Callsign: (WB2FGX) HOME BBS (KA2RIT.NJ.USA.NA)
Send all replys to John (WB2FGX @ KA2RIT.NJ.USA.NA)
*** END OF MSG # 544 from KA2RIT @ KA2RIT.NJ.USA.NA
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=End of MSG-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Steve
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo
From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part1
Summary: Lighten Up Mr. (Bill) Serious (Oh No :-)
Keywords: Review Footage
Message-ID: <297@beyonet.UUCP>
Date: 28 Feb 92 14:56:25 GMT
References: <286@beyonet.UUCP> <1992Feb24.172432.4575@anasaz>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 79
In article <1992Feb24.172432.4575@anasaz> billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:
I never said it was `THE TRUTH' only that is was the best UFO
footage that I have seen so far.
>Watch the tree branches, not the UFO, during this sequence. The splice
>can be seen very easily with the naked eye. The "light shift" and sudden
>jump of the branches shows the change in lighting and wind conditions
>between the two sequences. Also, in other sequences, watch the cloud patterns
>in the background to see where splices occur.
HAHAHAHA! Bill your parents must be Lawyers! HAHAHAHA
So serious, lighten Up. You almost make it sound like Gary
has some competition :-)
########THIS WAS NOT PART OF THE SCRUTINY TEST OF THE JAPANESE###
You have to remember this stuff is dated back in 1975 the
part you mean is at the end where Meier is talking about the
materialization wave mumbo jumbo. In that part while he is talking
the editing wasn't too cool and yes the jump of the branches
was VERY noticable. Did you ever think maybe it was edited there
because the film ran out? That part you discribe was not the part
that they scrutinzed maybe because it was the end of the film.
#######REMEMBER THIS WHEN YOU REPLY#####
I think the originals were checked for spices and editing before
the Japs did there investigation don't you?
#######SCEPTIC ALERT###########
The parts of the footage the Japanese scrutinized `Did Not' noticably have
changes in "swaying" branches or other surroundings like clouds etc etc.
It did have the "green glow" light conditions. Remember they did the slow
motion and still effects. I didn't touch my VCR buttons.
Again, what did he film?!?!?! How did he do it?!?!?!
###############################
>Horn swoggle. This particular sequence was a large part of why Mr. Meiers
>was discredited. As decribed above, changes in "swaying" branches and
>lighting conditions from one frame to the next are indicitive of splicing,
>not magic. What's "true" is that the film was altered.
I notice you never say anything about the actual UFOs why?????
I wasn't worried about the film, I was trying to figure out how
he did it. Maybe this `Alter armer Schweizer Bauer mit bloss einen
guten arm' was really a Hollywood Film Technowizard with a phony
half an arm while his real left arm was tied to his back :-).
Come on, so he wasn't the greatest movie producer. I don't think
he was using `Blue Screens' back then do you? What did he film?
The model that was found in his Shack was just that....A MODEL!
Yea thats it... He had a bunch of operator Engineers with Hydraulic
Cranes behind, operating the models on fishing string. Better yet
a fleet of Swiss Army Helicopters tangling the models with
clear plexiglass poles.
>... more horn swoggle deleted ...
Horn swoggle huh :-) Reminds me of the 2 old Geezers on the
`Muppet Show' that used to cut up all the other muppets, hahahaha.
Thank you Bill for your excellent Opinion, very good to see someone
else out there think about these classic UFO debunker materials.
I only wish it was in better condition to really give it the
microscope but alas all we can do now is wait for some new UFO
material to come out so we can scrutinize! :-)
Steve
--
############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
#### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### ####
## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ##
## ##-----------------------------------------------## ##
#### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!microsoft!marcmil
From: marcmil@microsoft.com (Marc MILANINI)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <1992Feb29.235824.9719@microsoft.com>
Date: 29 Feb 92 23:58:24 GMT
References: <schumach.698706566@convex.convex.com>
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Lines: 28
Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4553 alt.alien.visitors:4742 sci.skeptic:21213
In article <schumach.698706566@convex.convex.com> schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:
>Yes, Newton was a genius, but he was not infallible. Some of his
>views were completely wrong (such as those that led him to write
>tens of thousands of words on alchemy as a science), or even lunatic
>(his deathbed statement that his proudest achievement was to die a
>virgin).
>
>So stop with these ridiculous appeals to authority, already.
>
<Flame on>
Seems to me that you missed an -another?- opportunity to shut up. First,
I don't think that Newton was really a genius. Hard-working, certainly,
but his intelligence was quite common, I believe. Second, and more important,
is the fact that alchemy is simply the ancestor of modern chemistry. Only
the work of first-rank scientists like Newton transformed it into science.
<Flame off>
I am waiting for the same thing to happen to ufology. During decades,
people kept on saying that stones were falling from the sky, and scientists
responded that it was impossible because there were no stones in the sky.
One day, one of them used the witnesses of a falling stone to calculate its
trajectory, retrieve it, and present it to other scientists.
Evidence was found that this stone was very likely not to be from the Earth.
It was the beginning of the study of meteorites.
--
=---K8>>@@@@@@@@ Marc Milanini @@@@ marcmil@microsoft.com @@@@%%
Path: ns-mx!umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu
From: zharman@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Raven Tengu of Kyoto)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: PLANETCOM
Message-ID: <11211@ns-mx.uiowa.edu>
Date: 1 Mar 92 19:52:44 GMT
Sender: news@ns-mx.uiowa.edu
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: U of Iowa, Iowa City, IA
Lines: 431
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4743 alt.conspiracy:12739
(Posted with permission by author.)
Concerning "Revelations"
author-Jacques Vallee
January 15, 1992
Dear Jacques,
Far from a "revelation", as answer to either
Harbinson's "Genesis", or the Bible's, (the [aliens] sons of
God took the daughters of men for wives, Gen 6:6), your book
is expertly written but shows your tremendous bias by
omission. You have lightly tapped some of the "intelligence
operatives" in the UFO field smartly on the wrist with your
iron ruler, or was it an iron cross? Gave Bill Cooper's four
year old viewpoints instead of his current rethought
position. Wrote three pages separated by many pages about
the mechanical side of the flying object scenario possibly
having been produced here on earth by earthlings. Lip
service to assuage the uninformed. Sure, there are
extraterrestrials with bodies, and they must have craft in
which to travel. There are also other-dimensional bodiless
beings who need no craft to travel in. You are probably like
most folks and say that unless you saw a bodiless being you
wouldn't think it possible. In order to "see" a bodiless
being, one must go within and withdraw one's attention from
the exterior world of the senses.
Come on, Jacques, double think, triple think and get to
the bottom of things. Otherwise you are no better at this
gig than any other decent writer who needs money, and
applies themselves to definitely "one-sided" revelations.
1947 brought the passage of the National Security Act,
the start of the Nazi germinated CIA and NSA. The influx of
at least a hundred Nazi scientists, engineers, etc., into
the United States and Canada. A Nazi aeronautical engineer,
a certain Herr Miethe, who had designed four different types
of saucer shaped craft by 1943 using either rocket power or
donut configuration jet turbine engines (rather than
cylindrical), with the cabin stabilized by gyro, the
compressors rotating in one direction and the expansion
chambers and vectored exhausts rotating in the opposite
direction, was traced to Canada in 1947 and began work for
the A. V. Roe company (Avroe disk). The phony AVROE "aircar"
was definitely to disinform the press as to the real
projects underway underground in Canada.
The eight mile long train that went out of Austria in
1945 (672 train cars!), to the coast of Brittany, the
contents loaded on board ships, eventually ending up
underground in Southwestern Canada. At the same time over
100 prefab factory buildings were shipped from England to
British Columbia. Get your "remote viewing" friend to scope
the spot for you. Anybody could find it, even at this late
date. A complete underground construction and flight testing
facility in British Columbia. The 1947 first "sighting" of a
flight of "saucers", Kenneth Arnold, etc., etc., right over
the border from the underground base in British Columbia.
The base was decommisioned in about 1952 when we (the
Americans) traded the H-bomb technology for all the improved
German hardware, and the scientists and technicians to go
with it.
The first flights of these "captured disks" by remote
or on board pilots unfamiliar with their controls led to the
early crashes in Roswell and elsewhere. The disks were
captured from "aliens" (Nazis), and there were definitely
"alien bodies" at the crash sites, (Canadian).
A special group was formed to keep this technology and
in effect all the most advanced forms of technologies
separate from the general course of science. This group has
powers above the executive branch. Who knows what it's
called? By the way, the Nazis had everything before any
other country, they had radar in 1933 they had infra-red
sensors, heavy water, etc., etc. We have been told lie after
lie in terms of who invented these things. If anyone in the
world had access to "alien" technology it was the master
race "Aryans" (Nazis). Their metallurgy and casting were
flawed or they would have conquered the world. As you
probably know, many expatriot Nazis were given carte
blanche, new I.D's., and were included in startup of more
than several departments of the CIA in 1947. Departments
including "genetics and cloning" (with some of the same
"doctors" who had given death camp residents gangrene,
etc.), "designer drugs and mind control" using the same
scientists who had designed Methadone and Methedrine for
Hitler's maniacal efforts. In 1952, a public stir caused the
CIA to shuffle these fab fellows out of town. My guess is to
the various underground centers that were being built.
There's two reasons why you don't reveal things about
the characters in your book, either you don't know, or you
are protecting certain agendas.
Linda Howe is a nice person, most certainly in on the
deception or so naive as to be pathetic. The technology for
hand held lasers driven by power supplies that only weigh
200 pounds has existed for twenty years or more. DARPA
builds them and they have all the necessary capabilities she
is overawed with.
The reason for all the testing of animal systems from
stem to stern, reproductive systems and other organs by us,
is that 85% of the current underground nuclear testing and
100% of the above ground testing in the past at the Nevada
Test Site, has vented radioactivity into the atmosphere. The
radiation travels downwind offsite, and for the last 47
years has affected and continues to affect the terrain and
the animals with measureable radioactivity in the various
systems. It's only natural for those who think they are in
control to try to measure the quantitative damage they have
inflicted and keep inflicting on the earth and its
inhabitants and to KEEP THE RESULTS SECRET. These days the
largest rug that you can sweep secrets under is the "alien"
flying carpet! It interested me to see your specious formula
equating the number of landings, number of sightings, and
number of close encounters, into a formula for the amount of
landings that would have occurred unseen by humans if your
theory would have held mud. The problem, according to my
information, is that "sightings" and "close encounters" of
"aliens" by humans have always been staged, and for a most
important reason. It's estimated that 1% of the population
believes the crap about little-big-heads making a deal with
our government in the 50's, if they can get 5% of the
population to "believe", they can run the scam and everybody
will fall into line.
Lazar probably works for NSA and was running a game
typical of the Russian G.R.U. on the scientists from Los
Alamos where the "Honeysuckle Parlor" was, compromising them
via videotape, then trying to decompartmentalize them. He
did the same for the personnel he came into contact with at
the test site in Nevada, he would recommend them to his
bugged whore house in Vegas to be taped and compromised.
Then there was the Lazar show on KLAS and George Knapp and
Gene Huff (Lazar's "clean-up man" like Nancy Davis Reagan
was the "clean-up person for Ronnie), John Grace (the
infamous Valdomar Valerian of "The Matrix" papers and head
of Nevada Aerial Research Group), John Lear and all the
other interested parties now have a list of "test site
employees" and others who called and wrote in, telling about
seeing "things" at the test site. The operation was mainly
to expose leaks in security at the test site.
The reason Lazar was at either location was to pick up
exposed film taken of particle collisions (at Los Alamos) or
particle beam interactions (taken at the test site Nevada)
and develop it and return it poste haste to its point of
origin. He had a top secret clearance for this. With such a
clearance, he was a valuable asset to the small super secret
group spoken about previously. He was keeping track of which
scientists were working on what. Lazar doesn't violate the
tenets of his security oath. None of these shuck artists do.
If he were to talk about the particles and paths he saw on
the film he used to develop, they would put him away in
solitude. He is not a physicist and never was.
I have talked to Paul Bennewitz at length, several
times. On his behalf, you only tell people how they drove
him nuts, not why. I ask myself why would you leave out the
reason that they sent him reeling? To fill you in, because
you obviously took Linda Howe's and Tracy's opinion rather
than questioning Paul directly; he's a pilot, he flew over
the Dulce area numerous times on his way between Albuquerque
and Denver. He took many pictures of the construction going
on, and according to Paul, he also took pictures of circular
craft on the ground at this site which, as late as 1973,
according to him, had large hangar doors much the same as
Lazar's second hand explanation about the doors at S-4. (All
the stuff from area 51 and "S-4" having to do with inertial
mass cancellation has been moved to an area near St. George,
Utah). The most revealing photos and their negatives
disappeared in about 1975 when various "fringe UFO experts"
visited Paul. Also, his house was burglarized and ransacked
more than once. In later years Moore, Shandera, and Torme
made a meaningless tour of Dulce and then went on to
Albuquerque (the real reason for their travels) to see if
there was any more evidence of serious consequence still in
Paul's possession that they could grab, and sure enough, he
was missing some more photos when they left his house. If
you had even talked to Bennewitz, you would have gotten a
lot closer to having a "revelation". But by listening to
what Linda Howe has to say about Bennewitz, you might as
well call your book, "Hearsay". By the way, you could have
your "remote viewer" look at the Dulce area and easily show
you some entrance points. The "waste" from the underground
bio-genetic lab (no aliens involved, although that is where
we humans produce the short lived, big-eyed, big headed
imitation "aliens") comes out in the river canyon about ten
miles below Navajo Dam. Although these days they "treat" it
a lot more before letting their "grey" water back into the
environment. This base and others are of course connected by
tunnels to Los Alamos. The Archuleta Mesa installation
rivals Pine Gap at Alice Springs, Australia for security,
etc. Every U.S. Air Force base has a so-called "bolt-hole"
and is connected to the bolt-hole by tunnel.
Another source was in the area of the Archuleta Mesa in
1972. At that time a narrow gauge railway spur still existed
that went down from Durango, CO, through Dulce, N.M. through
Chama, N.M., and ended several miles later where it used to
connect to a straight line narrow gauge track that had gone
all the way from Albuquerque to Denver (part of the original
Durango-Silverton Line). This person noted a tremendous
amount of materiel being unloaded at a crossing of this
narrow gauge railway and the dirt road he was travelling on.
A bunch of workers were unloading flat cars full of cement,
pipe, etc, onto flatbed trucks that then disappeared down
the dirt road toward the Jicarillo Indian Reservation, he
took pictures because he was interested in the antique
railcars, etc. There were no accomodations in the area at
that time so he made his way up to Durango to stay the night
before going on with his travels. He was "tailed" all the
way to Durango to the motel parking lot by a "military type"
wearing civilian clothes, in an open civilian type jeep.
That evening he went to the bar to have a few drinks, was
picked up by a good looking woman who went with him to his
room, in the morning, she was gone and so was all his film,
not just the film in the camera! I have had several
occasions in my research to note that women are often used
to garner someone's trust. I call these women "military
millies", in honor of the one I personally came into contact
with who called herself "Milly". Pretty Army and Air Force
brats are mind-controlled at an early age and taught to gain
information from their subjects with the use of sex.
A group of 21 people led by an individual we will call
Rick, went to area 51 in 1989 in a small bus to watch
"saucers". They were stopped on "mail-box road" by two
individuals carrying automatic weapons and wearing
camouflage togs. One individual popped a can of "gas" in the
aisle of the bus, and that's all they all remembered for
three hours. When they came to their senses, they cut their
trip short, returned to L.A. and five persons got separately
regressed using hypnotic regressers that did not know one
another, and found that during the lost time their memories
had repressed similar events. They had been marched off the
bus, taken in jeeps to a building nearby, and had their
lives threatened by military personnel. No "aliens"
whatsoever.
In the U.S., the group that runs the "alien abduction
scam" can only use some of the hardiest of these short lived
bio-genetic bad luck stories. Short lived because they have
no digestive tract and can survive only about two weeks
maximum after they are removed from the growing matrix, then
they deteriorate and die. They have no "soul" and are not
considered "sentient beings" by Tibetan Buddhists.
The French are obviously not as skilled as the U.S. in
fabricating biological entities, and so weren't able to
expose poor unfortunate Franck Fontaine to any phony aliens.
Instead, only keeping him in and out of the "twilight zone"
in their "clean room" wherever that was. They used a
haloperidol-like substance in the fog that surrounded his
car.
Edith Fiore is a new arrival in the huckster
professional wrestling world of UFO experts. She claims to
be a clinical psychologist. ALL of her female patients who
"remember" with help, their "abduction" experience, remember
a long steel surgical needle being used to take eggs from
their ovaries. The same kind of long steel surgical needle
that WE USE to take eggs from female ovaries. If these
little greys are thousands of years in advance of us as the
liars would have us believe, why are they limited to using
model "T" technology to get our women's eggs? Gimme a break!
The reason the needle is remembered is because it is
painful, temporarily breaking the hold of the drug induced
mind control. Some of these women also remember a human in
the room at that time.
Bud Hopkins is definitely an intelligence agent from
hell, slavering over the females he has attracted to his
franchised "abduction workshops", where all the females are
"supported" by other females who have had "the same
experience". One of the "details" that Bud harps on that he
hasn't published and that he retains "secret" as a test for
authenticity when he interviews new applicant "abductees" is
the "long steel surgical needle". If you remember the needle
you are authentic in Bud's cosmology. Thanks to Bud Hopkins'
franchise, female "abductees" can look in any phone book
yellow pages and find an "abduction support group".
Whitley Streiber wrote "B" quality horror novels before
he got seriously mind-controlled at the Monroe Institute.
Then he started talking about little "somethings" messing
around with him in between sleep and wakefulness.
Monroe has 5 permanent resident CIA astral travelers
who do nothing but "help" people to "understand" their
"travels" in group sessions after the fact. Bob Monroe says
that his "people", go into the astral world and everything
becomes foggy, so one wouldn't know if one was astralling in
San Francisco or London. I am a remote viewer and conscious
dreamer, and I know that information to be spurious. The
place that he and his people are going is "limbo land". The
places which I set myself to view or travel to, I actually
see or visit. No fog involved. Proof is in the pudding.
Haldol is used to "treat" multiple personality
disorder. The inverse is also true, multiple personalities
can be "created" and screened from one another with the use
of Haldol. To become even more complex for the sake of
current discussion, one "personality" would remember an
abduction experience, and would be given dominance over any
other "personality" by the individual's "handler".
The drug haloperidol-generic (Haldol-trade name), when
given in slight overdose causes a three hour lost time/lost
memory experience. Six American psychiatrists so far are
under indictment for taking advantage of their female
patients using this drug in overdose. Their mistake? They
didn't "mask" the "lost time" with a "memory" of some sort,
and so the women, after a short while, became suspicious and
went to different psychiatrists, got hypnotized to find
themselves remembering the exact events. To the indicted
psychiatrists' liking, one can have a person slightly
overdosed on haloperidol do anything physically possible and
not remember a thing for awhile! Whereas if you mask the
lost time with a "unique memory" the person will tend to
cling to that "memory", or repress that "memory" (to the
detriment of remembering the truth) for a longer time. If
the person joins a support group that periodically refreshes
the "memory", it will maintain long into the person's
future.
The army's mind control unit must take well deserved
credit for the veterans who seemingly go suddenly crazy,
killing many people and then themselves. The most recent
event in Killeen, Texas was planned for the day BEFORE a
Congressional vote on gun control, hoping to influence
Congress with yet another mass automatic killing. Handlers
(psychiatrists) at each perpetrator's local Veterans
Hospital are involved in each and every case of these mass
killings/suicides. Prozac is also involved with each case
having been prescribed by the aforementioned "handlers" in
each and every case. The fellow in Canada who killed 12
women at a women's college, the fellow in the Stockton,
California schoolyard, etc., etc.
Try reading the "Global 2000 Report", and the 1959
study by the Club of Rome, I could send you a copy of
"Stopping the Coming Ice Age" videotape, this in order to
gain an overview of what is really going on. "They" know
that the weather is changing permanently for the next
100,000 years, going back to an ice age. It has done this 17
times in the last 1.8 million years. Global warming is a lie
like so many other lies that we have been told in order for
them to insinuate that we have 50 years in which to change
our habits. These jerks tell us these lies in order to
maintain power, mine the last of the ore, suck the last of
the oil, sell us the last drop of gasoline and then tell us
that they were mistaken; when it's far too late for most of
us to grow food. They say that they do these heinous crimes
in the name of human survival. The only survival they work
for is their own. They work out of fear. Less than half of
the world's arable land will still be able to support the
growth of food crops shortly, so the concensus is that half
of the world population must die by starving to death, AIDS
(germ warfare-Strecker Memorandum), or killing one another.
In order to maintain a semblance of control during
infrastructure breakdown when people are killing each other
for food, they will fly the saucers and tell us we are
undergoing an alien invasion, please stop rioting, go to
your local post office and register, FEMA will take over and
it will be a "new world order". Fascist one world
government, Communism already lost according to plan and
despotic Fascism always wins because people are
complacent and refuse to get involved.
Bush will feign serious illness in October, to throw
the election. He doesn't want to be in power when this place
falls apart, which will be by 1996.
Six years worth of grain is missing from the nation's
grain silos. Secreted underground no doubt.
There are about five major end time scenarios that you
should consider in order for you to come up to speed on the
totality and magnitude of the subterfuge.
You could call my service and leave a neutral number
and time when you can be reached. 818-569-3072
cc. M. William Cooper, Vladimir Terziyski, Martin Cannon,
Paul Bennewitz, and a multitude of other "friends".
*********************************************************
Apology
February 22, 1992
Dear Jacques,
This letter is being sent and given to all who received
or were given copies of the first letter that I wrote to you
entitled "Concerning Revelations, author Jacques Vallee".
I hope you will accept my sincere apology for what I
spewed forth in a state of picque while thinking of it as
"creative license". I hope all the other individuals and
groups mentioned will also accept my heartfelt apology. I am
pretty sure that all of the people and groups I mentioned
believe in what they are doing, and believe they are doing
what is "right". I did not mean to stir up pain or suffering
in anyone's personal life, hurt people's feelings or
commerce by weaving these real people into imaginary and/or
outright false fabric.
The first letter was written with specific tone,
certain style, using a few facts and a lot of embellishment.
The myriad results could not have been imagined and were
mostly obtained because the letter was written in that
manner and sent unsigned to all who received it.
To those who still don't know who I am, my name appears
in Bill Cooper's book "Behold a Pale Horse", which I suggest
that everyone should purchase and read.
It's all right for the major players to go underground
during a crisis, either "natural" or contrived. We need to
lose half the population of this place in order to save it
from total devastation. We need to preserve certain whole
aspects of our ordered civilization. It's all right that
unconventional means are used to get laws passed to take
armaments out of the hands of all the idiots. As we approach
certain debacle, the ends justify the means.
After the occurrence of the last days scenario, there
will be two main types of surviving groups on the surface.
1. Total imbeciles with plenty of paranoia, plenty of
guns, ammo, food, bigotry, racism, etc.
2. Loving families of "light" hidden away in out of the
way places, living in harmony with this Earth and the
Cosmos.
I have heard that you read the entire first letter. I
have gained valuable input from people that called my
answering service and left their numbers or various
messages. I think you must have sensed that the first letter
did not need your response, however, I would certainly
appreciate talking to you sometime.
Needless to say, Planet Com is working on an
"apocryphal book" which contains information about this
epoch that has never been common knowledge. It will be
available in 3 months. Projected cost will be $15.00
Anyone interested in subscribing to a newsletter which
Planet Com has available, please send $2.00 and request to
Planet Com (818) 569-3072 Box 33, Mountain Center, CA 92561
cc. Those of you who copied and distributed the first
letter, please make copies of this letter and do the same.
**********************************************************
If you have intentions of replying to this post, PLEASE do not send me
(zharman@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu) email. All replies (unless they are general
comments) should be sent DIRECTLY to PLANETCOM (phone and address included.)
I am not the one to answer questions, PLANETCOM _is_.
**********************************
Please distribute this!!!!!!!!!!!!
**********************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!news.bbn.com!ulowell!swlvx2!rayssd!anomaly!plankton.sbs.com!mpd
From: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com (Michael P. Deignan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Mar01.143701.5398@anomaly.sbs.com>
Date: 1 Mar 92 14:37:01 GMT
References: <qk9sgB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
Organization: Small Business Systems, Incorporated, Esmond, RI 02917
Lines: 13
Nntp-Posting-Host: plankton.sbs.com
bbs.gary@jwt.UUCP (Gary Stollman) writes:
>She asked me to go into a small mental
>hospital for a while
Sounds like the best advise you'll ever get.
MD
--
-- Michael P. Deignan /
-- Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com / I'm not a bigot,
-- UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd / I hate everyone.
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347 /
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