SoftImage Msg Brd Archive TEXT

 Subject:  SoftImage Msg Brd Archive TEXT

Author:  Various

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Date:  5/15/1997


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Archive of messages posted in the Macintosh Graphic Arts Forum's 3D SIG's SoftImage message board. All posts prior to 3/97

  

--------------------------------------------

Macintosh Graphics Forum          Go Keyword MGR

Checked with Disinfectant 3.6    released by mw 




Subj:  New Soft Folder!

Date:  96-01-21 14:58:31 EDT

From:  AFC John        

Posted on:  America Online


This is the second incarnation of the SoftImage message base. The old one got

full, so it was archived and uploaded to 3DSIG Libraries. Please continue to

post all questions and comments regarding SoftImage, Eddie and Toonz for IRIX

and NT here.


AFC John

3DSIG/MGRSubj:  SI and NT

Date:  96-01-21 16:32:03 EDT

From:  Rebotko7        

Posted on:  America Online


Does anyone know about plans for SI running on CHRP with Windows NT?


KentSubj:  Re:SI and NT

Date:  96-01-21 22:29:07 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


>>>

Does anyone know about plans for SI running on CHRP with Windows NT?

<<<


So far, it hasn't even been mentioned in Montreal. Need to wait until the

platform actually is available before serious discussion takes place. Should

simply be a matter of perhaps recompiling SI if CHRP's NT isn't is some sense

Microsoft pure....Subj:  Re:SI and NT

Date:  96-01-22 08:47:14 EDT

From:  DRFREITAG       

Posted on:  America Online


We have a CHRP compliant PPC system from STD here at the university.  I am

trying to get info from Softimage regarding its compatiblity.  The ability to

do 2D and video post-prod on the Mac OS, as well as have a high end 3d

package like SI on one machine, with no duplication of memory, peripherals,

would be a very cost effective way to go.Subj:  Re:SI and NT

Date:  96-01-22 12:14:01 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


I work with Softimage doing all their NURBS modeling so you're getting

information "from Softimage". I reiterate, nobody in Montreal has looked at

CHRP. I've never heard of the STD people you mentioned (I would've thought

IBM would have produced the first available CHRP...) but, if you e-mail me

their phone/fax/e-mail address, I'll pass it on to SI's system folks. I'll

let you know what response they give.


Use alan@softimage.com.Subj:  Re:SI and NT

Date:  96-01-22 15:32:22 EDT

From:  D Grahame       

Posted on:  America Online


Asked the founder that very question (SI and CRHP PPC) at the rollout of SI

NT in SF last week, and he seemed very positive on the idea, although he said

he hadn't thought about it before.


Donald G.Subj:  Nice

Date:  96-01-29 23:23:46 EDT

From:  Rebotko7        

Posted on:  America Online


Its nice to see everyone verify the bennys I was seeing in the SI on NT CHRP

thing.  Does anyone know of the situation with MentalRAY and NT? Is it an

option or only on the SGI version?


KentSubj:  Re:Nice

Date:  96-01-31 00:25:52 EDT

From:  D Grahame       

Posted on:  America Online


Will be bundled with the new version in six months or so, according to the

ceo Man at the rollout. 


Currently all the plus options, such as particles, MentalRay, cubic

mapping(!) etc not available for NT, so I'm not rushing out and buying it. By

the time we have CHRP machines in twelve months or so, all should be

available, and a large drop in price was also foreshadowed at the show toward

the end of the year. I can wait. 


I don't have any desire to do, or demand for large amounts of plasteek

Reeboot-style character animation at the moment. 


I'm more interested in the particles and Mental Ray actually, and that's not

available on NT, as I said. The expensive third-party Renderman options are

not available either.


Donald G.Subj:  Re:Nice

Date:  96-01-31 00:59:00 EDT

From:  D Grahame       

Posted on:  America Online


ps noted that practically everything that was really good on the SI demo reel

was rendered either using their advanced options ie MentalRay and particles

(THE flea) or using Renderman (practically all the ILM stuff) both of which

are not available for NT SoftImage, so turnkey buyers wanting to save some

bucks and buying a SoftImage suite for $15,000 on NT MIPS, intel/Intergraph

or DEC Alpha should look a little closer if they intend to redo Jurassic Park

using SI NT alone.....


DGSubj:  Re:Nice

Date:  96-01-31 01:28:18 EDT

From:  D Grahame       

Posted on:  America Online


Despite the false advertising, love the general direction of SoftImage ie

lower prices, broader platform support.


The sooner SGI really starts paying more than lipservice to its animator

clients the better as far as I'm concerned, but I don't think we represent

enough of  market for them to really care, apart from the advertising value

of the big production houses using their hardware.


When I see an Indy R10000 (not a hobbled remaindered 4000 5000 0r 4400

system) for a comparable price to a comparably price/performance PPC, Alpha

or even Pentium system (including twenty four bit graphics and hardware

rendering) I'll believe it. SIGGRAPH will be interesting.


NT will have standard graphics drivers by then, practical support multiple

monitors, system level Wacom driver support, heck ALMOST as powerful s a Mac

from a practical user point of view, combined with true multithreading and

prememptive memory paging so developers don't have to worry about memory

management so much, unlike the Mac now.


Donald GrahameSubj:  Re:Nice

Date:  96-01-31 13:27:01 EDT

From:  PixelsSD        

Posted on:  America Online


Donald,

You could use SI under NT and run SI->RMan utilities on your SGI.


-AndrewSubj:  Re:Nice

Date:  96-01-31 13:59:40 EDT

From:  D Grahame       

Posted on:  America Online


Uh UH. Thanks Andrew. 


Then I'll really want upgrade the thing. And SGI will do it for me, for the

very special price of only $10,000 because it needs  new power supply or some

such. Ugh.


Donald G.


Subj:  Re: Nice (SGI lower prices?)

Date:  96-02-01 00:47:41 EDT

From:  Eclipse040      

Posted on:  America Online


Donald (and others I'm sure),


Here is a press release from SGI related to the very thing you're talking

about.  The IndyStudio (the high-end flavor) comes with 24-bit ZX graphics

(hardware accelerated, 4 Geometry Engines), a 180 MHz R5000SC (not R10k but

definitely better than R4xxx) 128 MB of RAM, 2 GB disk, CD-ROM, 20" display

and lots-o-software for about $20K.  That is very competitive with

Intergraph, Dec, etc...  We've done benchmarks against The TDZ-300's and

400's w/Pentium Pro's (which actually cost more when similarly configured)

and outperformed them.


We are also doing some bundles with Alias on IndyStudios that should have

price points that at the very least make you smile knowingly...


We're trying.


Tony

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

SILICON GRAPHICS INDYSTUDIO SETS NEW INDUSTRY STANDARD


Highly Integrated Content Creation Systems Targeted

at Advanced Multimedia and Video PC Users


MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (January 22, 1996) -- Silicon Graphics, Inc. (NYSE:

SGI)

today announced IndyStudio, a new product line that dramatically increases

access to state-of-the-art content creation tools. The IndyStudio systems,

based on the Indy R5000 graphics workstations also introduced today, are

specifically designed for  professionals who create interactive 3D content

and

digital video and retouch high resolution images for print and on-line

publications, interactive titles and animated features.


"The use of highly realistic 2D and 3D graphics is exploding in media from

feature films to the World Wide Web," said Tom Jermoluk, president and COO of

Silicon Graphics. "IndyStudio systems leverage Silicon Graphics proven

imaging,

graphics and rendering capabilities and make them accessible to power-starved

creatives currently using personal computers."


IndyStudio Sets New Price Performance Standard

IndyStudio systems offer powerful Silicon Graphics 3D graphics and imaging

workstation performance at prices comparable to high-end multimedia personal

computers. The IndyStudio systems are specially configured and optimized for

entertainment and publishing application requirements.


The IndyStudio product line begins at $13,495 for a complete system equipped

with the new 150MHz MIPS R5000SC RISC processor and the new XGE24 3D graphics

and imaging subsystem. The IndyStudio R5000 systems with XGE24 3D graphics

deliver up to 80 percent faster 3D graphics and CPU performance than existing

Indy systems, based on the MIPS R4400 and R4600 processors. The entry

IndyStudio system is offered with 24-bit color XGE24 graphics, 1 GB disk, 64

MB RAM and 17-inch high-resolution color monitor.


The advanced IndyStudio system, based on XZ graphics, one of Silicon Graphics

most popular 3D-accelerated graphics subsystems, comes with 2 GB disk, 128 MB

RAM, quad-speed CD-ROM and 20-inch monitor, specially priced at $21,995.


--- continued ---Subj:  Re:Nice (SGI lower prices?)...

Date:  96-02-01 00:49:11 EDT

From:  Eclipse040      

Posted on:  America Online


IndyStudio systems are pre-configured with Alias|Wavefront Composer Lite,

Adobe Photoshop 3.0, Adobe Illustrator 5.5, Insignia Solutions SoftWindows

2.0, MetaTools Kai's PowerTools 2.0.1, Silicon Graphics Network File System

(NFS) and IRIS Impressario applications.  These software applications are

valued at approximately $4,500 and are integrated with IndyStudio at no

additional charge.


Alias|Wavefront Supports IndyStudio With New Promotion

In support of the IndyStudio introduction, Alias|Wavefront announced today

the

launch of a special promotional price through March 31, 1996 for its most

popular content creation software, PowerAnimator 7.0, Composer 3.5 and

Animator 7.0.  In combination with the IndyStudio systems, Alias|Wavefront

brings the industry-leading power and functionality of its high-end content

creation tools within reach of a broader range of users.


The promotional program is particularly attractive to digital artists who are

looking to increase productivity. When purchased together through

Alias|Wavefront authorized dealers, customers will receive the IndyStudio

system with Animator for $15,995, with Composer for $18,495 and with

PowerAnimator for $19,995.


"Artists who push limits see the value of investing in tool sets with room to

grow.  The technological superiority of PowerAnimator 7.0 for building

realistic characters and creating the most advanced F/X is now available to

anyone considering a high-end PC," explained Rob Burgess, president of

Alias|Wavefront. "The IndyStudio systems combined with our software

applications provide a clear path to next-generation software initiatives

such

as Project Maya."


Industry Leading Application Vendors Support New Product Line

The IndyStudio systems can be purchased through Silicon Graphics' value-added

dealers as part of an introductory price promotion with a wide range of

powerful content creation software.  Certified applications for the

IndyStudio

include: Animator 7.0, PowerAnimator 7.0, Composer 3.5, Avid Technology Media

Suite Pro, Chyron Cindy Video Adaptor, Chyron LIBERTY Paint, ELECTROGIG

GIG3DGO, Evolving Video Technologies Antero, Integrated Research Harmony,

USAnimation, Vertigo Psycho, Xaos Tools Production Suite and LightWave 3D 4.0

and other approved vendors.


Introductory pricing for the IndyStudio product line is in effect from

January

22, 1996 until June 30, 1996.  Systems are expected to be available this

quarter.Subj:  Re: Nice (SGI lower prices?)

Date:  96-02-01 01:02:29 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


>>

We are also doing some bundles with Alias on IndyStudios that should have

price points that at the very least make you smile knowingly...

<<


The problem is that Alias still sells modules of software beyond what is now

PowerAnimator. THe base price does not include their advanced modeling or

animation stuff (which is why I'd buy Alias: it's base package leaves a lot

to be desired) for which you need to pay extra. THat extra used to be $16K

for modeling. Rejoicing might still be premature....Subj:  Re:Nice (SGI lower

prices?)...

Date:  96-02-01 01:08:07 EDT

From:  Eclipse040      

Posted on:  America Online


BTW - there are MANY groups inside of SGI that do care a great deal about the

animation market.  In fact I'd say that as a company SGI cares about the

animation market as much or more than any other hardware company in the

world.  While it is true that the entertainment markets represent about 20%

of our revenue, and animation is a percentage of that, it is one of our most

visible markets, and one that forms the religious core of our company.


I for one hope we do build a box like you describe - but don't discount the

R5000.  It's a good processor, and compares very favorably with the 20164,

Pentium Pro and PowerPC 604 in benchmarks, AIM, Spec95 ('ug - can't believe I

said Spec95) and my personal pet peeve, real application performance.  A 180

MHz R5000SC offers slightly superior performance to a 250 Mhz R4400SC, which

outperforms PowerPC 604 (even @ 150 Mhz), its "benchmarks" compete very well

with 266 Mhz 20164 Alphas and typically wins application benchmarks against

Pentium and Pentium Pro NT boxes.  (Pro/E is a commonly benchmarked app that

would be one example...)


There are enough people inside of Silicon Graphics that care about this

market to essentially form a groundswell to get Digital Media Systems (the

division that builds the Indy) to offer XZ graphics as a $1K upcharge from

24-bit. (in new boxes at least) That is VERY aggressive pricing, for SGI or

anyone for that type of hardware.  This was viewed as a strategic investment

in our "authoring" markets, and I hope we don't stop there.  (three cheers,

IF we lower memory, disk and CD-ROM pricing...) The IndyStudio

pricing/bundles are also very aggressively priced, and you'll note they are

SC, 24-bit, "useful" configurations...


We're not where we want to be, or where our customers want us to be, but

we're working hard to get there, from both a pricing and product perspective.


Question: Would you rather see SGI build a box that offered "competitive"

performance with PentiumPro-type boxes @ $10K'ish prices (in useful configs),

or build a box that offered clearly superior performance @ $20K'ish prices?

(assuming you can't have clearly superior @ $10K...)


Reason I ask?  I'd just like to get a feel if people want cheap OR better

quality.  Keep in mind that a "usefully" configured Pentium Pro box with 64

MB of RAM, 2 GB disk, 20" 24-bit, 3d accelerated display with NT, fast I/O,

and such will probably be in the $10K range...  (w/o basic video, audio,

ISDN, networking, etc...) (as will a 9500/132 64/2GB, 20" trinitron, 24-bit

with 3d acceleration Power Mac)


TonySubj:  Re:Nice

Date:  96-02-01 19:48:04 EDT

From:  AC4UF           

Posted on:  America Online


<<I don't have any desire to do, or demand for large amounts of plasteek

Reeboot-style character animation at the moment.>>


Neither do the folks who mke ReBoot, either.  The gang at ABC (??) canceled

it, according to the USA Today.



/\/\att SchnellerSubj:  Re:Nice

Date:  96-02-02 15:06:57 EDT

From:  DarkSkyDig      

Posted on:  America Online


Probably more to do with a less then compelling story. Granted I've only

watched half of an episode but it was quite boring once I got past looking at

the geometry.


Quality really has no bearing on whether a show will stay around or not (look

at network tv for instance) but it has to be entertaining.


Most people are so goo-goo over the technology they forget that the

show/movie just sucks in general.


I like that squiggly line drawing psychologist show, it at least is

enteraining. But I can't remember the name, i've seen it a couple of times

though...


Dann Stubbs

Dark Sky Digital


(we expounded our company name from DSD, and changed our AOL address

accordingly)

Subj:  Re:Nice

Date:  96-02-03 16:20:37 EDT

From:  Jondobson       

Posted on:  America Online


Dr Katz, I believe...


I like that one too.


JonSubj:  SI on the NT

Date:  96-02-04 18:36:43 EDT

From:  T Mation        

Posted on:  America Online


Can anyone give me any bench mark data to compare our current ElectricIMage

on 604/150 to the SI/NT on an INtergraph machine.  We are trying to make some

decision this week [2.5.95].

Thanks

Rob Stern

TechnimationSubj:  Re:SI on the NT

Date:  96-02-05 00:09:28 EDT

From:  Graham 921      

Posted on:  America Online


>>Can anyone give me any bench mark data to compare our current ElectricIMage

on 604/150 to the SI/NT on an INtergraph machine.  We are trying to make some

decision this week <<


Rob, here is my opinion on the whole thing. Let me preface my statement by

saying I have been using the Mac since 1984.  I belive I can qualify as a

MacHead!!


I have used form*Z and Electric Image. It is quit nice. However if you need

to make a chage to a model in EIAS, you must go over to form*Z do your thing

and then go back to EIAS.


One of the many reasons I love SoftImage soo much (or any SGI 3D tool) is

that all the tools (modeling to animation) is in one program. I mus admit

that I have become spoiled at work is that I have a 8100/110 and a SGI

Indigo2.


I saw a side by side comparison between a DEC Alpha machine @$27,000 and a

$40,000 SGI Indigo2. In the time that the SGI finished rendering 1 frame the

DEC Alpha machine was on frame 2.8!!! Most sobering.


I would go fro the SoftImageNT machine!!Subj:  SI with NT on a MAC

Date:  96-02-05 02:21:42 EDT

From:  JazzyG          

Posted on:  America Online


If I installed NT on my powermac would I be able to run SI?Subj:  Re:SI with

NT on a MAC

Date:  96-02-05 03:38:16 EDT

From:  AFC Dong        

Posted on:  America Online


>>If I installed NT on my powermac would I be able to run SI?<<


NT is an operating system for PCs.  Maybe next year when the PPCReference

Platform (aka CHRP) it may happen, if they port SI to run on the PowerPC

chip.



DKSubj:  Re:SI with NT on a MAC

Date:  96-02-05 03:40:44 EDT

From:  BKnob97         

Posted on:  America Online


>>>>if i installed nt on my powermac would I be able to run SI<<<

How are you going to install NT?, an emulator or an ad in card?. Im curious

about this same question. Brian KSubj:  Re:SI with NT on a MAC

Date:  96-02-05 15:20:41 EDT

From:  Max92           

Posted on:  America Online


one of the nice things about nt is that it is not tied to one type of

processor. You can get nt for MIPS, Alpha, Pentium, and, yes, PPC.

Unfortunately, it does *not* run on a power macintosh; if you want to run it

on PPC, you need one of the PPC workstations. Byte did an article on these

guys a while back. HP, Motorola, IBM, and Austin make PPC workstations.Subj:

Re:SI with NT on a MAC

Date:  96-02-05 15:50:02 EDT

From:  D Grahame       

Posted on:  America Online


But, as Dong said, SI doesn't run on PPC NT yet. I asked the CEO of SI a

couple of weeks ago, and he said maybe probably by year end or early next

year.


NT runs on so many processors because it is a so-called microkernel based OS

with a "hardware abstraction layer", making it straightforward to port it to

many processor designs. An interesting historical note is that NT ran of PPC

long before it ran on Intel chips, because the PPC is based on the old IBM

RISC design, which was part of NT's original server style market. 


Apple's new multithreaded prememptive multitasking OS called Copland boasts a

microkernal design also, with hardware abstraction layer, so if and when it

ever sees the light of day, in theory they'll be able to easily run the Mac

OS on multiple processor types also,


regards,


Donald G.Subj:  Re:SI with NT on a MAC

Date:  96-02-05 17:35:07 EDT

From:  Rex Niger       

Posted on:  America Online


>> Unfortunately, it does *not* run on a power macintosh;


  Well not easily ;) You can get a board from Orange Micro that'll let you

run it. It's not truly running, but they do have Pentium boards now,

unfortunately they're Nx586s and they lousy FPUs, which limits their

usefulness for 3D work.

  If Apple ships its PPCP machines by mid-year then switching between the two

environments is as simple as a reboot.


-EricSubj:  Re:SI with NT on a MAC

Date:  96-02-06 01:19:49 EDT

From:  AFC Dong        

Posted on:  America Online


For the price of a good powerful board, it may be better to just spend tha

etra cash (or credit) and buy a PC setup. Especially for graphics.  (although

I don't condone that sort of thing here in the Mac 3dsig)


DKSubj:  Re:SI with NT on a MAC

Date:  96-02-06 01:24:48 EDT

From:  BKnob97         

Posted on:  America Online


>>if apple ships its PPCP macines by mid year<<<

Is apple planning on doing PPCP machines? and where would I find this info. I

have not read anything about this in the main mac mags and I was getting

nervous that Apple was not planning to do the obvious. Any info would be

great. Thanks

Brian KnoblockSubj:  EclipseTheOS

Date:  96-02-06 01:30:57 EDT

From:  Rebotko7        

Posted on:  America Online


Aha!  So IRIX 5.x is ever so wonderous!  We cherish the precious desktop

icons and the nifty "drag and drop" ripoffs of another GUI ;)  Praytell, will

the engineering masterminds in the valley of the gods see fit to let us

reformat our root drive using something so simple as a floppy-disk, or will

the Indystudio require something so lavish as a SysAdmin pulling a nice

salary and benifits from our profits?  Come now, after sucking the design

professional for some $42K (that would be a computer and decent software of

course) surely you don't expect us to have a computer science degree just to

adjust our directory hierarchy?  Wow, how about that nifty DAT/PYTHON

Mechanism?  "tar" now there's a modern way of approaching a system backup!

"On SGI I can push poly's so fast you'll go back in time!"  It seems that SGI

needs to "invest" a little talent in more approachable technology.  Sure, I

use SGI and Wavefront 4.2 it has some incredible features that Macheads only

look at and whimper, but I like to design; I need something a little above

command-line hacking to interact with a crashing OS.


Now I'm sure you'll pull this apart line by line and I'll get slammed from

here till next month in this forum.  I don't really care.  I have as much to

say about competing hardware and other popular OSs (my !@#$W#E%$%& 9500 has

been down for 2 weeks counting).  The beef is this: get down off your

high-horse and face the issues.  I would gladly pay the 20K for a box with

insane poly pushing abilities AND a decent interface that really approached

what designers need.  But if SGI wants to "Rock the World" of designers, not

just the entertainment elite, they need to really take a look at why the Mac

is so popular in graphics, not just do interface rip-offs.


Do you want that I should slam Apple next?


KentSubj:  Re:SI with NT on a MAC

Date:  96-02-06 01:50:16 EDT

From:  Eclipse040      

Posted on:  America Online


NT doesn't run on Power Mac's.  You'll have to wait until the Common Hardware

Reference Platform to run NT on an Apple logo'd box...


Assuming there is a PowerPC-compiled version of Soft (which is assume there

is or will be) you'd then be able to run Soft on some future PowerMac. 


TonySubj:  Re:SI with NT on a MAC

Date:  96-02-06 01:54:23 EDT

From:  Eclipse040      

Posted on:  America Online


With regards to Copland - the kernel in Copland does not support SMP,

Gershwin's kernel will.


There are also many issues with regards to Copland's ability to support

pre-emptive multitasking that I think I posted about a year back - they might

be archived somewhere.  (basically current apps that use the Mac toolbox (ie.

just about everything) don't get preemptive multitasking - as they call the

toolbox, which isn't reentrant/multithreaded, and won't be until Gershwin.)


Apple and DayStar have been working on a multiprocessing API - the only

problem is it is different from the threads manager - so it doesn't "come for

free" even if you use the threads manager.  There is a version of Photoshop

that uses the multiprocessing API for some of it's functions and on a 4 CPU

Daystar Genesis Photoshop screams.


TonySubj:  Re:EclipseTheOS

Date:  96-02-06 02:03:54 EDT

From:  Eclipse040      

Posted on:  America Online


I personally agree with everything you said with regards to ease of use.  I

like the Mac (a lot - used to work for Apple) and have several @ home.

(Including the one I'm running AOL on right now...)


If I've been "on my high-horse" I'm sorry, guess I'll have to re-read my

postings.


I think what we all want is the Mac's ease of use, with the prices of Wintel

boxes with the OS power/features of unix TFlops of power. I don't think I

ever claimed Irix was easier to use than a Mac though. (and I'd be the first

to tell you it isn't).


But Irix is a good implementation of Unix - even if we (just like IBM, Sun,

Dec, HP, Microsoft, etc.) "stole" interface ideas from Apple.


Sorry if I've offended you - didn't want to start a flame war.  And no -

don't slam Apple, EVERY company has their problems - SGI included.


TonySubj:  Re:SI with NT on a MAC

Date:  96-02-06 02:03:59 EDT

From:  Rex Niger       

Posted on:  America Online


>>they might be archived somewhere.  (basically current apps that use the Mac

toolbox (ie. just about everything) don't get preemptive multitasking - as

they call the toolbox, which isn't reentrant/multithreaded, and won't be

until Gershwin.)


  Not quite true. All I/O is preemptively multitasked, so any apps that make

use of the file manager, network services, or other misc. devices (i.e. most)

get to take advantage of the new architecture. In addition apps that take

advantage of the thread manager might be able to take advantage of the

preemptive multitasking as well.

  Of course the flip side to all of this is that most vendors who really

*need* to take advantage of Copland's preemptive services probably will

within 3-6 months of release. Same thing about the multiprocessing API.

(Which still isn't final to my knowledge.)


-EricSubj:  Re:Copland

Date:  96-02-06 02:14:14 EDT

From:  Eclipse040      

Posted on:  America Online


I hope you're right (with regards to app vendors supporting Copland features)

- I know Apple is betting on it.


BTW - the file manager, and networking API's in Copland change (from a

developer's perspective) - there is backward compatibility to some extent,

but new features require support of the new API's.  If they use the threads

manager in an "invisible" fashion (ie. don't touch the toolbox) they can get

preemptive multitasking with little recoding - but there still will need to

be some recoding - as these processes need to be "spun off" into a separate

address space, and a message passing API will be used to provide

communication between the protected/preemptive processes that have been "spun

off" and those processes running in "toolbox space".


The multiprocessing API is in continual evolution, but is available - and

there are a few apps that support it today.  (Photoshop)  I think most

developers would have preferred that Apple find a way to make multiprocessing

come "for free" (they were quite vocal about it @ the last Apple World Wide

Developer's Conference) with uses of the threads manager, but as I recall

there was something architecturally preventing that from working.  I'll have

to dig up some of my notes and check.


Copland is cool though - particularly with the new GUI, OpenDoc, high

performance I/O, etc - and with "Copland" apps things should be much more

stable, faster and system responsiveness should improve markedly.  Can't

wait.


TonySubj:  Re:Copland

Date:  96-02-06 03:30:17 EDT

From:  Eclipse040      

Posted on:  America Online


Here's an oldy but goody I posted a WHILE back - fairly good 50k' overview of

Copland.  Back from my days @ Apple in fact.  (see - I have been lurking in

these boards for a while...)  For those that don't care, skip this and the

next message.  Sorry for the bandwidth useage.


Tony

(Now @ Silicon Graphics)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subj:  Macintosh OS Stuff

Date:  94-09-01 00:18:52 EST

From:  Eclipse040


A couple of things related to the Macintosh OS that I've seen posted.

Hopefully this isn't too technical but it may clear things up...


The current MacOS (System 7.x) is a cooperative multitasking environment with

shared memory.  The next generation MacOS (Copeland) - due next year - will

have some memory protection (more on this is a second) and will offer true,

preemptive multitasking with threads and all the good stuff (at a kernel

level) that we all envy on those Unix boxes.  In addition to that it will

live in "native" mode and be almost fully native (including networking and

the file system - yeah - Including fully concurrent I/O, screamin' fast!)


The reason I say "mostly protected" is that the Toolbox as we know - and

maybe - love it today, is not reentrant - ie. cannot be made multithreaded.

(among other things) Therefore Macintosh applications that make use of the

toolbox (ie. virtually anything with a GUI) will all run in one address space

- sharing memory.  (ie. just like today)


But wait, if an application is multithreaded (ie. uses the Threads Manager

like BackBurner, Alias Sketch ,etc.) it will be able to spin off processes

(maybe little faceless apps to do rendering jobs, or antialiasing, or

radiosity, or...) that can run in a protected address space.  These processes

could even survive a crashed Macintosh and application - since typically when

a Mac crashes it really just needs to reload the Toolbox.  (developers need

to stop walking their heaps and such)  So the app & toolbox goes down leaving

the little rendering process churning away - reload the toolbox, relaunch the

app, and if programmed correctly the app could reestablish communication with

its process through the message passing system built into the kernel.  Neat

'eh?


Ok you say - so where is preemption?  Well, at the kernel level (which sits

underneat the Toolbox) everything is preemptively scheduled, with the Toolbox

"space" assigned a process ID and priority.  This means that everything

within the Toolbox space (ie. anything that uses the Toolbox) runs just like

it does today, those "spun off" processes all get their own process ID and

priority so that each of them can be preemptively scheduled.


The reason we are doing this is so that application developers can count on

some level of compatability with current apps (it will be similar to A/UX 3)

and so that we can get our act together and basically rewrite the toolbox,

make it portable, C++, native, reentrant, etc...  When this happens apps get

their own address space, process IDs, priority, scheduling - Nirvana.  (or so

we think today)  


The fully preemptive everything, fully protected everything is planned for

Gershwin, or release of System Software targeted for approx 1 yr. after

Copland.


But even in Copland there are some VERY substantial and very noticable

benefits to virtually ALL Macs, and especially PowerMacs - the File Manager

(all new) is a preemtively scheduled task, which means you can now have I/O

stuff going on w/o waiting (it gets timeslices and scheduled just like

everything else).  We will get much closer to the theoretical maximum

transfer rates, we get MUCH better processor utilization (there are a lot of

unused clock cycles in Macs today - can you say interrupt?) amazingly

improved network performance, and the super cool ability (at least the

planned ability) to reload the toolbox in about 3 seconds (instead of a 3

minute reboot).  Other really spiffy propeller-head stuff too...

--- continued ---Subj:  Copland continued

Date:  96-02-06 03:31:37 EDT

From:  Eclipse040      

Posted on:  America Online


So, bottom line: It's coming, it's in the works, it's been demonstrated at

the developer's conference, talked about openly in white papers, and all the

current CPU's will see huge benefits, not just now "future" Mac(s).


--- continuation ---


The only other option to get to a fully protected/preemtive OS was to kind of

keep the toolbox the way it is (ie. not rewrite it completely) and launch a

seperate copy of the toolbox for each app so that each Toolbox/App

combination could be scheduled individually and each could have their own

protected memory space.  Decided against that as it was slower, much less

portable, used lots of RAM (several hundred K extra per launched app), and

didn't clean up any of the current Toolbox, err, um, "deferred features" ;)


There is so much more to say, but then again I'm a geek and you all probably

don't care.  If you've got any specific questions/issues, let me know, if I

can talk about them - I will.


Go render something cool,


TonySubj:  Re:Copland

Date:  96-02-06 03:42:34 EDT

From:  Rex Niger       

Posted on:  America Online


>> the file manager, and networking API's in Copland change (from a

developer's perspective)


  They only change if you want them too. Basically existing file and network

calls are just remapped to their new Copland equivalents.


>>there is backward compatibility to some extent, but new features require

support of the new API's.


  True, but the existing calls will still launch preemptive server processes.

From an I/O perspective, a very big draw of Copland is that Apple's

drastically simplified the APIs, so it's actually easier to use the new ones.

The old ones still work, but if you're a developer, why flog yourself? 


>> If they use the threads manager in an "invisible" fashion (ie. don't touch

the toolbox)


   Actually I think most developers have been avoiding toolbox calls. There

are so many restrictions on threads, that I bet most people are using them

for grunt computation work. Adapting them to server processes should be

fairly straightforward.

  

>>but there still will need to be some recoding 


  There's always going to be some recoding, but Copland has the advantage

that the new code the developers will be writing is going to be simpler and

more robust.


>>The multiprocessing API is in continual evolution, but is available - and

there are a few apps that support it today.  (Photoshop)


   I didn't say it wasn't available just that it wasn't done. Which is what

the Daystar rep. said on the 'net a  few days ago.


>>(they were quite vocal about it @ the last Apple World Wide Developer's

Conference) with uses of the threads manager, but as I recall there was

something architecturally preventing that from working.


  I wouldn't be surprised the current thread manager's kind of funky.


-EricSubj:  bad day

Date:  96-02-07 13:00:33 EDT

From:  Rebotko7        

Posted on:  America Online


oops


Sorry the language was a little too personal.  I was referring to SGI on the

corporate level.  Bad day at the office.


kentSubj:  Re:Tony the SGI guy...

Date:  96-02-09 00:49:24 EDT

From:  JohnLiscom      

Posted on:  America Online


i personally think that your recent comments were/are wonderful in regards to

what is coming to the mac.

Best wishes,

JohnSubj:  Softimage NT?

Date:  96-02-12 11:42:31 EDT

From:  JC Animate      

Posted on:  America Online


My company has a bunch of Intergraph TDZ dual pentiums that they are using to

run Microstation.  I think I can get my grubby hands on one of them.  Is it

worth it to try Softimage NT.  I've heard mixed reviews, but CGW just gave it

a second place Editor's choice behind PowerAnimator 7.0.  I realize that

editor's don't know everything, but this has sparked my interest.  Especially

since ILM seems to use it extensively.  If anyone out there has REALLY TRIED

IT, I would appreciate some input.  I don't want to here a bunch of platform

bashing, just a genuine assesment of the Softimage NT's usefulness compared

to the setup I have now.  Which is Form-Z / EIAS running on an Power Mac

9500/132.


Thanks

JCSubj:  Re:Softimage NT?

Date:  96-02-13 00:05:44 EDT

From:  Japunto         

Posted on:  America Online


I just got to try it for three hours on Saturday at Microsoft's offices here

in Atlanta. I was very impressed! It has all of the features of the SGI

version except for mental ray and a couple of other things, which will port

over soon (according to the people at SoftImage). It is said to render faster

in NT than on an SGI. 

I'm definitly trying to get it for my office!

jPSubj:  Softimage NT!

Date:  96-02-15 02:17:44 EDT

From:  Rebotko7        

Posted on:  America Online


Subj:  Re:Softimage NT?

Date:  96-02-12 23:05:44 EST

From:  Japunto         


>>It is said to render faster in NT than on an SGI.

<<


So RenderMAN isn't the only render that runs faster on somthing other than

MIPS RISC?


KentSubj:  Re:Softimage NT!

Date:  96-02-16 20:41:49 EDT

From:  AFC Dong        

Posted on:  America Online


Is anyone using SI on an Intergraph machine?  How is it?  Bugs?  In

comparison to the SGI version (sans Mental Ray and Particles)?


Anyone know of where I can see a good demo in LA?


DKSubj:  Re:Softimage NT!

Date:  96-02-16 20:56:59 EDT

From:  APMODELER       

Posted on:  America Online


Dong -

You might try calling M T & T Group in Burbank.

818-953-4740    They were selling the NetPower (MIPS) SI bundles, but I don't

know about the Intel or Alpha packages.    

Please post your findings / comparisons as you get to check them out !


JRSubj:  Re:Softimage NT!

Date:  96-02-17 01:18:23 EDT

From:  AFC Dong        

Posted on:  America Online


Thanks.  Right near work too.  :)Subj:  New Indy R5000 chip

Date:  96-02-17 23:01:11 EDT

From:  JoelPilger      

Posted on:  America Online


Anyone heard some real-world specs on the performance of the new Indy R5000

180 Mhz chip over the R4400 150 or 200 MHz ??


It's a reasonably priced upgrade compared to upgrading an Indigo2. If the new

chip is significantly faster, that is.


Thanks.


Joel Pilger

Visual ApproachSubj:  Re:New Indy R5000 chip

Date:  96-02-19 04:30:15 EDT

From:  Eclipse040      

Posted on:  America Online


Joel,


What do you mean by "real-world specs"?  On a range of applications we've

found the following.


150 MHz R5000SC = 200 Mhz R4400 +/- 10%

180 MHz R5000SC = 250 Mhz R4400 +/- 10%


On some "real" applications benchmarks a 150 Mhz R5000 SC Indy was about 10%

faster CPU-wise than a 200 Mhz R4400 Indy.  Graphics-wise the R5000 is

substantially faster than the R4400 (software-graphics wise that is) - ie.

XGE.  This is due to some recoding/optimizing of OpenGL to take specific

advantage of some new instructions included in the R5000 (mips4) instruction

set, most specifically the MADD instruction.  In some cases we've seen 70%

improvements in T-mesh.


In general the R5000 will be about 30-40% faster than an R4400 at the same

clock speed.


TonySubj:  Re:New Indy R5000 chip

Date:  96-02-19 12:00:39 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


A 70% speed-up in TMesh would help SI's shaded mode quite a bit. The

tessellations of everything get converted to TMeshes. It will be interesting

to see how much good, ole shaded mode improves.Subj:  Re:New Indy R5000 chip

Date:  96-02-23 16:49:26 EDT

From:  JoelPilger      

Posted on:  America Online


> 150 MHz R5000SC = 200 Mhz R4400 +/- 10%

> 180 MHz R5000SC = 250 Mhz R4400 +/- 10%


Thanks a bunch for the specs.


I suppose that means if I upgrade my 150 MHz R4400 to a 180 MHz R5000, that

would be roughly a 50% speed improvement.


Could that be true? All for about $2500 ??? I'm sold...


JoelSubj:  Baseball model

Date:  96-02-23 16:50:56 EDT

From:  JoelPilger      

Posted on:  America Online


Anyone got a decent Softimage model of a baseball? I can pay for it,

depending on the quality.


Viewpoint wants too much money...


Thanks,


JoelSubj:  Re:Soft/NT in Mac studio

Date:  96-02-23 20:06:56 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


We will likely soon be purchasing SoftImage on one of the Integraph

workstations. We have a Mac based Avid Media composer 1000 and would like to

transfer animation files from the NT box to our media composer for editing

and laying off to tape as we currently do from ElectricImage. Additionally we

would like to perform compositing and effects in AfterEffects as we currently

do with QT files.  My understanding is that SI does not support QT or OMF but

only AVI and other non Mac multiframe file formats. Is this true or am I

missing the obvious? There is bound to be a solution without having to resort

to DeBab or some other AVI -to-QT converter. Maybe not...Any suggestions?


Martin

GeoMedia Subj:  Re:New Indy R5000 chip

Date:  96-02-23 21:42:23 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


>>I suppose that means if I upgrade my 150 MHz R4400 to a 180 MHz R5000, that

would be roughly a 50% speed improvement.


Could that be true? All for about $2500 ??? I'm sold...<<


Is that the upgrade cost?? I had reps quoting me roughly $6000 for an upgrade

from R4400 150mhz -> R4400 250mhz.


-sjvSubj:  Re:Soft/NT in Mac studio

Date:  96-02-24 16:14:03 EDT

From:  Kth Lango       

Posted on:  America Online


>>>. We will likely soon be purchasing SoftImage on one of the Integraph

workstations. We have a Mac based Avid Media composer 1000 and would like to

transfer animation files from the NT box to our media composer for editing

and laying off to tape as we currently do from ElectricImage. Additionally we

would like to perform compositing and effects in AfterEffects as we currently

do with QT files.  My understanding is that SI does not support QT or OMF but

only AVI and other non Mac multiframe file formats. Is this true or am I

missing the obvious? There is bound to be a solution without having to resort

to DeBab or some other AVI -to-QT converter. Maybe not...Any suggestions?


Martin

GeoMedia  <<<


 I can't speak for Softimage as I've never had the pleasure, but I've done

similar transfers with Lightwave files. Generally, what worked nest for me

was to render to indvidual, numbered frames. Dump them to a removable media

disk and put them into the Mac. I didn't have to do any conversion in

Debabelizer as Premiere read the TGA's no problem. All I needed to do was a

renaming pass with Knoll Renamer (sharware, pretty quick) so that I got

seamless frame imports into the editing suite. That way when I selected the

first frame in premeire (in the layout window) the entire collection of

frames showed up as one clip. This all worked with Premiere and Lightwave

frames saved as targas. Should work for SI and Media 1000 as well.

I know you were trying to avoid this extra stuff, but at least it's not as

much headache as trying to convert an .avi file to QT. Now THAT's a pain.


Keith LangoSubj:  Re:New Indy R5000 chip

Date:  96-02-27 16:39:11 EDT

From:  JoelPilger      

Posted on:  America Online


> Is that the upgrade cost?? I had reps quoting me roughly $6000 for an

upgrade from R4400 150mhz -> R4400 250mhz.


Yep, that's why I was amazed when my dealer quoted me to upgrade my R4400

150Mhz->R5000 180Mhz for $2500. Perhaps the new R5000 is just cheaper than

the R4400's?


JoelSubj:  Re:New Indy R5000 chip

Date:  96-02-28 11:09:25 EDT

From:  RPWilliams      

Posted on:  America Online


Joel,


Have your SGI reps given you a solid indication that the R5000 at 180mhz will

be faster than your 4400 at 150mhz.  It doesn't seem like the difference is

going to be that great from what I've seen.  Curious to know if you have any

comparative specs.  Thanks


Bob WSubj:  Re:New Indy R5000 chip

Date:  96-02-28 12:06:53 EDT

From:  JoelPilger      

Posted on:  America Online


> Have your SGI reps given you a solid indication that the R5000 at 180mhz

will be faster than your 4400 at 150mhz.  

> It doesn't seem like the difference is going to be that great from what

I've seen.  Curious to know if you have any 

> comparative specs.  Thanks


Tony (Eclipse040) made a comparison...his results were:


> 150 MHz R5000SC = 200 Mhz R4400 +/- 10%

> 180 MHz R5000SC = 250 Mhz R4400 +/- 10%

> On some "real" applications benchmarks a 150 Mhz R5000 SC Indy was about

10% faster CPU-wise than a 200 Mhz R4400 

> Indy.  Graphics-wise the R5000 is substantially faster than the R4400

(software-graphics wise that is) - ie. XGE.  This is 

> due to some recoding/optimizing of OpenGL to take specific advantage of

some new instructions included in the R5000 

> (mips4) instruction set, most specifically the MADD instruction.  In some

cases we've seen 70% improvements in T-mesh.

> In general the R5000 will be about 30-40% faster than an R4400 at the same

clock speed.


My dealer didn't seem to think the speed improvement would be very

dramatic...Tony's information says otherwise. Either way, $2500 isn't too

much to keep my machine up to date.


JoelSubj:  Re:New Indy R5000 chip

Date:  96-03-01 21:21:33 EDT

From:  Eclipse040      

Posted on:  America Online


The benchmarks I've stated (and that we've run) tend to be CAD related.

(Like ProE)  The Spec ratings of an R5000 are very similar to a 250 Mhz

R4400.  A 150 Mhz R5000SC or a 180 Mhz R5000SC will definitely outperform a

150 Mhz R4400SC.


TonySubj:  Newsletter For SI users

Date:  96-03-02 14:48:45 EDT

From:  Gary Alvin      

Posted on:  America Online


We are a new publishing group that is in the process of putting together a

new bi-monthly newsletter for Softimage users. If anyone is interested in

contributing articles or imagery associated with Softimage please send email

to:


Garyalvin@aol.com


Thanks

Gary B.Subj:  Re:Newsletter For SI users

Date:  96-03-03 04:26:38 EDT

From:  AFC Dong        

Posted on:  America Online


Where will this newsletter be available?


DKSubj:  Re:Newsletter For SI users

Date:  96-03-03 14:16:09 EDT

From:  Gary Alvin      

Posted on:  America Online


There will be a charter subscription offer available at NAB (National

Association of Broadcasters) in the middle of April with the first issue

shipping shortly after. The first issue is focusing on the NT platform and

new plug-in development for Softimage.


Gary B.Subj:  DXF help

Date:  96-03-10 00:08:22 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


I hope that this is the right place to ask this question.


I am trying to do beveled text in SI. And SI does really bad beveled text.


I designed my beveled text in Infini-D for the Mac and exported the file to

DXF and sent it over to the SGI. Then in a shell I typed dxf2soft and got a

bus error and a core dump.


Whats going on? I posted this same question to the SI list, but got no

response.


I think that it is crashing before it does the translate. Has anyone gotten

this to work?


I would appreciate any help.


Thanks,

VmpreSubj:  Re:DXF help

Date:  96-03-10 01:02:28 EDT

From:  AFC John        

Posted on:  America Online


Have you tried Minerva Bevel? Its much,much better than the traditional

softimage bevel, much more control.


As for your crashes, ID DXF may be exported with some headers dxf2soft doesnt

like, try deleting any extraneous stuff with your favorite text editor.


AFC John

3DSIG/MGRSubj:  Re:Minerva Bevel??

Date:  96-03-10 10:14:20 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


As a new Softimage user I am very interested in anything Soft related.

So...what is and how does one aquire "Minerva Bevel?. Is it a plugin? 


Also, are there user groups or newsgroups discussing Softimage on the

internet that you could recommend? The dialog here on aol is pretty sparse.


thanks


Martin Jaeger

GeoMediaSubj:  Re:Minerva Bevel??

Date:  96-03-10 12:51:07 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


Minerva effects became a standard part of at least v3.5 (can't remember if

it's true for v3.0). SI bought these effects and now makes them available.

Look in your menus for stuff followed by a + sign. That indicates what used

to be these plug-in effects. If you don't have any of these (I'd look under

edit & polygon, maybe effects & surface), call your rep. They should be able

to get them to you (probably for free: they used to cost $6K).Subj:

Re:Minerva Bevel??

Date:  96-03-10 16:39:12 EDT

From:  AFC John        

Posted on:  America Online


Minerva bevel can be found in SI 3.0 under Model->Surface->Bevel+ 3.0.


For more info on questions like these, you can either check out

comp.graphics.apps.softimage or send mail to 3D-request@softimage.com with

the subject as "subscribe" and the body as "subscribe you@your.address" to be

put on the softimage listserv, which is probably the better of the two, but

has a high daily mail load.


AFC John

3DSIG/MGRSubj:  Re:Minerva Bevel??

Date:  96-03-10 19:43:54 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


Thanks guys! I am eagerly awaiting delivery of Softimage/NT and the

Intergraph TDZ.300 I will be running it on. I will certainly look for the

user/mail groups you mention and will inquire to my rep regarding minerva

effects. Certainly with numerous users taking the plunge now that Softimage

is on NT I expect this folder to be bubbling soon! Appreciate the info.


Martin

GeoMediaSubj:  Re:Minerva Bevel??

Date:  96-03-10 19:55:58 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


Thanks for the 411.


I tried the Minerva bevel...I didnt get it. The way it bevels escapes me. If

it is the one that I am thinking of. You have to draw out the way the bevel

works right?


Well, once our SGI is working again, I will give it a try. Our primary hard

drive went ka-plooey, we are waiting for a new drive.


Thanks,

VmpreSubj:  Re:Minerva Bevel??

Date:  96-03-11 00:42:38 EDT

From:  AFC John        

Posted on:  America Online


Minerva Bevel is simple, just get your text or whatever in the front window,

then also draw your bevel profile i.e:


 _____

/        \


in the FRONT window (important) near the XYZ origin (also important). The

rest is fairly straightforward, following the prompts from the dialog box.


Hope this helps!


AFC John

3DSIG/MGRSubj:  Re:DXF help

Date:  96-03-11 01:29:49 EDT

From:  PixelsSD        

Posted on:  America Online


>>>I designed my beveled text in Infini-D for the Mac and exported the file

to DXF and sent it over to the SGI. Then in a shell I typed dxf2soft and got

a bus error and a core dump.<<<


Do you have dbx? Can you tell what is causing the core dump?


-AndrewSubj:  WINDOWS NT DEMO

Date:  96-03-14 12:53:14 EDT

From:  Lisasell        

Posted on:  America Online


CORPLEX (CHICAGO, IL) will be hosting a demo for Softimage/3D NT on March 27

at 2:00pm.


For further information or to reserve a space call:


Corplex

Lisa Cannata-Lisasell@AOL

847-673-9200


Subj:  WINDOWS NT DEMO

Date:  96-03-14 12:53:14 EDT

From:  Lisasell        

Posted on:  America Online


CORPLEX (CHICAGO, IL) will be hosting a demo for Softimage/3D NT on March 27

at 2:00pm.


For further information or to reserve a space call:


Corplex

Lisa Cannata-Lisasell@AOL

847-673-9200


Subj:  3d world

Date:  96-04-12 18:08:07 EDT

From:  HenkD           

Posted on:  America Online


Check out Henk's latest work. It's a series of rooms circa 1910 modeled in

FormZ and rendered in Electric Image. Over 100k polygons with 90megs of

textures - I'm 3 months into the project and I think it's the best work I've

done to date. 


http://www.halcyon.com/henk/Pages/0300_New.html


or use the following url and hit the new button on the homepage

http://www.henk.com/henk/Subj:  VRML

Date:  96-04-12 23:17:18 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


Has anyone had any luck getting SI .hrc or scene files to convert and be used

for VRML purposes?


Thanks for the 411


Later,

VmpreSubj:  Schools

Date:  96-05-04 01:15:01 EDT

From:  LetiaL          

Posted on:  America Online


So what schools  in US or Canada are out there

teaching    Softimage?Subj:  NT system price?

Date:  96-05-04 02:08:00 EDT

From:  Kandori         

Posted on:  America Online


Could somebody who has or is looking into a NT system tell me some rough

estimates for a nicely equiped NT system?   For a loaded Indy(R5000/180

mhz,128,2gig,20"/cd) I was quoted at around $23000! yikes!      How much for

a similarly configured NT?

I'm seriously looking into SI(being that a full version costs $14k vs $25K

for Alias......)


thanks

KandoriSubj:  Re:NT system price?

Date:  96-05-04 18:26:43 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


Most of the NT/SI bundles are going for 16k - 25k depending on the

manufacturer and the accelerated graphics. There was a magazine article last

month(in either CGW or Digital Video, I can't remember) that basically

compared the performance vs. price of various manufacturer's offerings. It

seemed fairly comprehensive -> even comparing an SGI box in the fray. Sorry I

cannot remember exactly where I read it...


-Scott J. VanzoSubj:  Re:NT system price?

Date:  96-05-04 18:45:09 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


>>I'm seriously looking into SI(being that a full version costs $14k vs $25K

for Alias......)<<


Although I am excited about the price wars and the NT port of softimage: I am

more excited about how Alias prices have gone down in reponse. I am,

admittedly, a hands-down Alias enthusiast when it comes to 3d, despite SI's

claim to fame in the area of character animation. 


sjvSubj:  Re:NT system price?

Date:  96-05-04 20:09:23 EDT

From:  Kandori         

Posted on:  America Online


---" I am, admittedly, a hands-down Alias enthusiast when it comes to

3d"---->  

      Mr. Vanzo, how's the rendering speed of Alias (let's say on a Indy

R5000/180mhz) compared to EI on a 9500?  As far as rendering quality, do they

use Alias rendered for final output for films? (I heard that they used

renderman through SoftImage for Jurassic park, and for "Casper", I don't know

which rendered it was used since "both" Alias and SI demo reel has them on

tape...)


Thanks.Subj:  Re:NT system price?

Date:  96-05-05 14:14:02 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


ILM uses Alias to model, Softimage to animate, and Renderman to render.

That's why both Alias & SI get ILM stuff on their demo reels.... They do NOT

use Alias's renderer but other folks do (e.g.,the CG in the last Batman movie

was rendered using Alias).


The Alias renderer will be slower than EI, BUT it's a raytracer not just a

scanline renderer like EI. This means you can get real shadows, refractions

thru glass, atmospheric effects that aren't totally faked, etc. If your

clients want a great looking chrome logo by tomorrow, EI is the way to go. If

short deadlines aren't critical, Alias does great.


As for me, I have both Alias & SI and prefer SI for most things. It's much

more interactive than Alias so I can get more done more easily & faster. It's

raytracer is significantly faster than Alias (maybe not quite the same

quality for certain shader/atmosphere effects....) and does most of what I

ever need. They also connect to mental ray which is an excellent,

state-of-the-art renderer but it pays the price for its quality with longer

render times (similar to Alias, maybe a little slower). I use Alias when I

need intricate modeling but transfer the models (using IGES) to SI for

animation and almost all rendering.


As regards price, the complete SI package is $8K which includes everything

they do except mental ray, metaballs, & particles. It costs $15K to get

everything. Alias, on the other hand, cost ~$10K for its base package. To get

the modeling features that make it worthwhile , you need the Advanced

Modeling module for $10K. To get the animation stuff you need (inverse

kinematics is crucial), you've got to cough up another $10K. If I had to make

a choice, SI at $8K (maybe $15K to get mental ray) is clearly the winner when

compared to Alias at $30K to get the tools I need.Subj:  Re:NT system price?

Date:  96-05-05 18:35:38 EDT

From:  D Grahame       

Posted on:  America Online


Note Alias's render is SLOW. Overnight for raytracing a single frame, and the

phong renderer on a 150 megahertz R 4000 we are finding is easily twice as

slow as Renderman running on a 80 megahertz PPC YARC Zuma board in a Mac.


Donald G.Subj:  Re:NT system price?

Date:  96-05-06 14:03:46 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


>>

Note Alias's render is SLOW. Overnight for raytracing a single frame, and the

phong renderer on a 150 megahertz R 4000 we are finding is easily twice as

slow as Renderman running on a 80 megahertz PPC YARC Zuma board in a Mac.

<<


Yes, PA's Raycast renderers are slower than some other vendor's renderers,

but not many have such a robust, integrated set of shader options as Alias

does. It is no wonder that such features have quite an overhead - but nowhere

else(even with Explore's IPR) do you see such control and flexibility from a

graphical shading interface. Also, I'm getting the sense that SI's MentalRay

is even slower than comparably-equipped scenes set up in PA...and SoftImage

has a long ways to go before it integrates MentalRay into a GUI comparable to

Alias.


-scott vanzoSubj:  Re:NT system price?

Date:  96-05-06 22:55:30 EDT

From:  Graham 921      

Posted on:  America Online


>>.and SoftImage has a long ways to go before it integrates MentalRay into a

GUI comparable to Alias.<<


I must agree, the control you have over shaders in Alias is nothing short of

amazing. When I saw mental ray and it shader control I was shocked, I could

not belive it did not have the same control that alias has. Even in their

entry level product "Web Animator (this used to be animator)."


Regardless of the product you purchase (SoftImage or Alias) you won't be

dissapointed. Its like having to pick between a Porsche or a BMW


Regards

Graham HedrickSubj:  Re:NT system price?

Date:  96-05-07 02:34:00 EDT

From:  LSchena         

Posted on:  America Online


<<There was a magazine article last month(in either CGW or Digital Video, I

can't remember) that basically compared the performance vs. price of various

manufacturer's offerings.>>

    

     I believe there was an article in this month's MacUser magazine

comparing the new Window's NT to the Power Macs and PowerWave computers.

There might have been something written in Millimeter magazine but I'm pretty

sure I saw it in MacUser. Good Luck!Subj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-10 14:02:21 EDT

From:  Max92           

Posted on:  America Online


I'm running Alias PA w/Advanced animation on a 200Mhz R4400 side-by-side with

3D Studio MAX on a P133. Feature for feature, Alias should be running

extremely scared right now. MAX subsumes most of the feature set with better

integration, user interface, render speed, and price. Unlike the "old" 3D

studio (which I didn't use) the renderer is now first rate - scanline, but

(get this) supporting AUTOMATIC refraction and reflection mapping. If Pixar

would wake up MAX would be the best RMan front end ever. You owe it to

yourself to check out this f$(*& amazing package.Subj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-11 01:52:45 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


>>>

Alias should be running extremely scared right now. MAX subsumes most of the

feature set with better integration, user interface, render speed, and price.

<<<


Could you elaborate on this for us? 

Which version of PA are you using?Subj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-11 13:12:43 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


So far, a base price of $3495 for MAX which then further requires purchase of

plug-ins to get good spline modeling, deformations, etc. doesn't appear

likely to strike fear deep into the heart of Softimage (concern, yes,

"running scared", no). You get all of that in one integrated package at $8K

from SI so I'm still taking a wait-and-see attitude on this one. The SIGGRAPH

exhibition is going to be fun this year! 


There is also the issue of HOW the features are implemented, not just the

list of what features there are. Alias & SI have similar features but SI is

much more interactive allowing better work flow for animation. Alias has

strong modeling which is great when that's what's important. Still have to

see how MAX handles such issues: I'm not ready to declare them the winner

until I've had a chance use their stuff. I've used both Alias & SI for a

number of years now and what you find is that feature lists aren't the whole

story.... If they're not implemented well enough to be a useful tool, they

don't mean anything.Subj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-11 16:52:34 EDT

From:  Kth Lango       

Posted on:  America Online


>>> I've used both Alias & SI for a number of years now and what you find is

that feature lists aren't the whole story.... If they're not implemented well

enough to be a useful tool, they don't mean anything. <<<


for examples, see Strata.....


KeithSubj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-11 22:10:43 EDT

From:  ErikTek1        

Posted on:  America Online


>>>for examples, see Strata.....


Keith<<<


Yes, please do see Strata!  Theres alot of great art coming from great

artists in that Forum.  See for yourself:  Strata3D.com, WarnerBros.com.  All

Strata!!Subj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-11 23:31:20 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


>Yes, please do see Strata!  Theres alot of great art >coming from great

artists in that Forum.  See for >yourself:  Strata3D.com, WarnerBros.com.

All >Strata!!


Actually, you're wrong about that.  The images they show are NOT "all

Strata". Most of the really cool images you see from Strata were modeled

somewhere else and imported via DXF into Strata for rendering. For example,

almost all of Patrito's stuff (Sinka) was not modeled in Strata, it was just

rendered there. 

Subj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-12 04:10:36 EDT

From:  ErikTek1        

Posted on:  America Online


>>>Actually, you're wrong about that.  The images they show are NOT "all

Strata". Most of the really cool images you see from Strata were modeled

somewhere else and imported via DXF into Strata for rendering. ***For

example, almost all of Patrito's stuff (Sinka) was not modeled in Strata, it

was just rendered there.***<<<


I don't know how these rumours always get started, bad news for you Crawfish!


The following tools were used exclusively in creating Sinkha:


Strata StudioPro

Strata MediaPaint

Adobe PhotoShop

MacroMedia DIRECTOR, not any of their modellers.

QuarkXPress, (Used for assembly on the printed version of the book.)


Sources:


The Making of Sinkha

Mojave Publishing, 1995-96

Virtual Views, 1993-96


>>>***For example, almost all of Patrito's stuff (Sinka) was not modeled in

Strata, it was just rendered there.***<<<


Of all projects released currently, Sinkha was modelled and rendered

exclusively in Strata!  Marco is currently working on, "Escape from

Thallisar", once again done with SSP and this time using  QTVR Technology.

This info comes directly from Marco Patrito and his team and is published in

the book that they wrote themselves.


I don't know where you got your info, but I have their book right here in my

lap.


Erik D.Subj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-12 09:56:44 EDT

From:  Sculpt Dev      

Posted on:  America Online


> The images they show are NOT "all Strata". Most of the really cool

> images you see from Strata were modeled somewhere else and imported

> via DXF into Strata for rendering.


I remember the first time I saw the Sinkha images, a Strata rep was showing

them off at a conference, years ago. I asked if they were built in

StrataVision (SSP wasn't out yet) and he said no, as far as he knew they were

built in Super 3D (of all things!)


About a year ago, another Strata rep said, in the Strata forum, that the

models were built in Sculpt 3D. I tried to find the message in the archives

just now, so I could "cite my sources," but I haven't found it. But when he

wrote that, everything seemed to fall into place for me. I deduced that the

rep at the conference had been less-than-truthful, because he didn't want to

admit to the Sculpt guy (me) that his Strata renderings were modeled in

Sculpt.


But now, with the Making of Sinkha book, I don't know what to think! I

haven't seen the book, but if it truly doesn't mention Sculpt 3D then what

was that Strata forum guy talking about there? Naturally, I was glad to

believe him, but on the other hand, I'm more inclined to believe the book,

alas. Was the conference guy just saying "Super 3D" because SSP was still

under wraps? Did Marco Patrito switch apps halfway through the project? Will

Brad ever learn about Amy's torrid love affair with The Sheik?


I've tried (unsuccesfully) to contact Mr. Patrito, for obvious reasons. As

the Sculpt 3D product manager, I would delight in hearing from the horse's

mouth that Strata's About Box image was built in Sculpt 3D. What a coup! We

could start running ads with the same images! ;-) But now, like I said, I

don't know what to think.


Sigh.


Joseph Ashear

Sculpt 3D Product Manager

Byte by Byte CorporationSubj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-12 12:46:37 EDT

From:  ErikTek1        

Posted on:  America Online


>>>Did Marco Patrito switch apps halfway through the project?<<<


Yes he did as a matter of fact.  He was using SV3D, StrataVision 3D, prior to

StudioPro.


Erik D.Subj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-12 15:48:04 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


>>

Yes he did as a matter of fact.  He was using SV3D, StrataVision 3D, prior to

StudioPro.

<<


Uh... is there any way we could restore this folder alteast to a discussion

that pertains to Softimage?


-sjvSubj:  Subject Headings

Date:  96-05-12 15:51:56 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


>>

Uh... is there any way we could restore this folder alteast to a discussion

that pertains to Softimage?

<<


...Or could you people atleast use subject headings that are relevant to what

you are discussing - so we don't have to sift through all of it?


-sjvSubj:  Re:Subject Headings

Date:  96-05-12 16:16:43 EDT

From:  AFC John        

Posted on:  America Online


   Although I am as curious as everyone else about this Sinkha/Strata  issue,

I must agree 'with Scott that the SoftImage folder is really not the place

for it. Ive moved the thread over to the Strata folder, so lets all pick it

up there. On the Strata tip though, I am curious who first heard that they

would be incorporating SoftImage rendering technology? Was it from a reliable

source, and was it planned for 2.0?


thanks-


AFC John

3DSIG/MGR




Subj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-13 13:09:10 EDT

From:  PixelsSD        

Posted on:  America Online


>>>Uh... is there any way we could restore this folder alteast to a

discussion that pertains to Softimage?<<<


I think SodtImage is better than Strata Studio Pro. If you agree say Aye.


-AndrewSubj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-13 19:49:07 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


>>I think SodtImage is better than Strata Studio Pro. If you agree say Aye.<<


hee hee-hee.... ;)

Subj:  Re: Alias, SI, Etc.

Date:  96-05-14 05:38:33 EDT

From:  AdobeSmudg      

Posted on:  America Online


Oh, that's just an oblique plug for PPS, you shameless huckster (just kiddin'

folks, flaaaaaammme dowwwn)


Well, I think people who would never have cats like Strata, how's that? We

can switch over to animals, now...non-sequitur city...


So, Andrew have you ever been given any official grief over PPS's similarity

(in a walk-by way, all I've done with SI) to their product?


MCSubj:  Re:genuine Softimage question

Date:  96-05-18 12:33:37 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


I am just beginning to grapple with softimage and have a modeling question. I

have created a human face by skinning b-splines 180 degrees around y and then

pushing/pulling...adding points. It is turning out really cool if I do say so

myself. As an afterthought I now have decided to create the back of the head

and have used the same original spline ( so as to maintain the same # of

nodes) and technique to do so. My question is, how can I combine the front

half with the back half? Is there a way to derive the original splines only

for the front and back and then re-skin??


thanks,


Martin

GeoMediaSubj:  Re:genuine Softimage question

Date:  96-05-18 12:50:59 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


A real SI question!! Knock me down with a feather....It's been so long!


First off, it sounds like you want to be modeling with modeling relations

turned on (preferences menu in model module). This will keep the original

spline ribs that you skinned around and re-skins if you modify one of them.

NOTE: modeling relations are not a panacea, only turn them on when you want

to do something like this.


Under the draw menu is Extract Curve. This will let you extract curves from

the surface.Subj:  Re:genuine Softimage question

Date:  96-05-18 15:34:59 EDT

From:  AFC John        

Posted on:  America Online


You may also want to try creating the back of the head from extracted curves

of the front. Then they will have the same u & v coordinates and you should

be able to MODEL>DRAW>MERGE SURFACE to join them both together...


AFC John

3DSIG/MGR

http://www.rhythm.com/~goodman/index.htmlSubj:  Re:genuine Softimage question

Date:  96-05-18 23:29:07 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


Thanks so much for the help on this one. After posting my question I went

back to the computer and discovered the extract curves function for myself

and by golly it did just what it said it does!! Re-skinned the whole works

after some spline direction inverting to straighten things out, and wow! I

had originally  utilized the modeling relation from the start. It is cool.

The tip about duplicating splines to maintain the U/V is a great suggestion.

I am still figuring out the work flow so as to anticipate and prepare for

these types of situations.....killer software, I love it.  BTW why are so

many folks knocking the native render. I think it looks terriffic for the

types of things I have done so far, and really really fast.


thanks again,


Martin

GeoMediaSubj:  Re:genuine Softimage question

Date:  96-05-19 13:34:04 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


Just a side note: for skinning NURBS, you aren't required to use the same

number of cvs. The skinning routine will make the knot vectors for all the

splines compatible. While nice, don't get too carried away with wildly

different knot vectors since it pushes the number of cvs for the resulting

surface up. You might try skinning some "incompatible" curves just to see

what happens. 


As regards workflow: I usually model with relations turned on so that I can

easily modify the results. A lot of times I animate the generators and so

contiue to leave things under relations. Elsewise, once I'm done modeling, I

use effect>freeze>modeling relation to preserve the result but throw away the

relational update. This freeze command gives you the option to save or delete

the generators so, for example, you could either keep or delete the ribs you

used for skinning....Subj:  Re:genuine Softimage question

Date:  96-05-19 15:25:14 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


ACrawfish,


Whoa, man thanks for the insight regarding nurbs, the explanation of the

skinning technique and the possible workflow options. This type of advice

invaluable information for those of us new to soft and is greatly

appreciated.


Best,


Martin

GeoMediaSubj:  Re:genuine Softimage question

Date:  96-05-21 09:40:26 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


As a follow up question to my earlier post about skinning to create my head

model...I still ended up with a seam at the back of the head. I duplicated

the spline at the back of the head and started spline picking with one of

these splines, ending up at the duplicated spline and skinned. The two

splines share the same space, however there is still (albiet slight)

noticeable seam. Is there no way to close this gap to achieve tangency of the

skin at this point, and have textures blend across this area?


thanks


Martin

GeoMediaSubj:  Re:genuine Softimage question

Date:  96-05-21 09:55:49 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


<<<As a follow up question to my earlier post about skinning to create my

head model...I still ended up with a seam at the back of the head. I

duplicated the spline at the back of the head and started spline picking with

one of these splines, ending up at the duplicated spline and skinned. The two

splines share the same space, however there is still (albiet slight)

noticeable seam. Is there no way to close this gap to achieve tangency of the

skin at this point, and have textures blend across this area?>>>


Ok, Ok,.....skin, "close" check box!!, voila.....duh-uh...sorry...


amazing how the obvious can be so elusive!


Martin

GeoMediaSubj:  Re:genuine Softimage question

Date:  96-05-21 13:07:54 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


For closing curves/surfaces, there's also an open/close option under

draw.Subj:  Re:next question

Date:  96-05-30 18:08:03 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


Being that the soft forum on the w3 has been a little testy toward us newbies

lately, I thought I would first post this question to this far friendlier

group.


What is the secret formula to obtain descent extruded/beveled text in

softimage? I have created custom font outlines in illustrator and imported

eps2soft. When I extrude then with flat or rounded bevels I end up with

faceted extrusions. I have been able to use the effect>order command to

smooth them out but then I get weird rendering anomolies on the front faces

as if the poly decomposition was not planar. I have found a way to derive a

new front face and replace the defective face with the new one. The problem

with this is that this too shows up as a distinct "seam" where the face

aligns with the bevel. Plus I have to do deforms on these letters and fear

that they may detach when I do so. Should I just crank out these letters in

form-z and then import them? Seems like this should be a total non issue/no

brainer/can-o-corn thing for softimage. I hope that I am simply doing

something wrong, otherwise this really blows!


Seems like Jay Roth warned me there would be days like this....!


thanks,


Martin

GeoMediaSubj:  Re:next question

Date:  96-05-31 01:32:32 EDT

From:  AFC Dong        

Posted on:  America Online


>>Seems like Jay Roth warned me there would be days like this....!<<


LOL, I still used FormZ for some of my modelling, but have you tried the HRC

bevel?


BTW, did anyone get 3.5 of SI NT yet?


DKSubj:  Re:next question

Date:  96-05-31 10:48:19 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


Spoke to my dealer yesterday regarding 3.5 and he said that they had just

received it for irix with NT to follow around july. Will experiment with HRC

bevel.....thanks.


Yea, as an EI user I went round and round with Jay about the reletive merits

of both packages. It is amazing how on some of the simplest things ie. the

font/bevel thing, wireframe rendering....how softimage is a little behind the

curve. Overall however, the software is incredible...really in a different

league altogether.


later,


Martin

GeoMediaSubj:  Re:next question

Date:  96-05-31 19:27:35 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


We just got our 3.5 a few days ago of IRIX. Slick new packaging. And a list

of known bugs...verfy cool.


But since I work for a large corp. it probably wont get installed until

version 4 ships. :)


Later,

VMpreSubj:  Re:what do I do....?

Date:  96-06-01 11:58:59 EDT

From:  JansenH         

Posted on:  America Online


Does anyone have any good suggestions for  the easiest way of  seamlessly

joining nurb sufaces together, such as a leg to body type attachment to be

eventually used as a flexible envelope? I'm having trouble using the merge

surface and zip functions and was hoping there was a simple way of doing this

that I might have overlooked.

Also, has anyone figured out a good way of generating a Nurbs surface out of

a complex polygon? The shrink wrap technique doesn't seem to work too well

with complicated models. 


Thanks,

jansenSubj:  Re:3.5

Date:  96-06-03 01:17:58 EDT

From:  AFC John        

Posted on:  America Online


I just got it Thursday, so far I like it. The 3D paint is great, and the

NURBS tools are more robust.Clusters can also have thier own centers now.

(yeehah!) But the thing I probably enjoy most is that all the documentation

and tutorials come both in bound printed format, *and* in html format on

CDROM. Just crank up IRIX Netscape and away you go. Ill post more reviews as

I get time to delve and discover. It is in some ways a very different

application than 3.0, but still very familiar.


AFC John

3DSIG/MGR

http://www.rhythm.com/~goodman/index.html

Subj:  Re:3.5

Date:  96-06-03 13:47:42 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


John-


3D paint? Improved NURBS?? 


I'm a bit out-of-the-loop regarding SI 3D(after 3.0)...Do elaborate on the

above implementations/improvements as soon as your ready! Perhaps I'll have

to find a way to upgrade our SI license...


Thanks,


-SJVSubj:  the putz's on line

Date:  96-06-03 22:06:36 EDT

From:  Graham 921      

Posted on:  America Online


Subj:  Re:Low Budget Film Project

Date:  96-06-03 22:05:23 EDT

From:  Graham 921      


I gotta tell you folks, this forum is really crawling with idiots. I have

seen


1. a guy who wants people to work for free

2. a putz who suppposidly lost his serial # to TrueSpace


I got to thinking, could it be that these two emails are from the same

person, it make perfect sense. Here is the scenario (yeah my spelling is

lacking).


This guy wants you to use TrueSpace while working for free. He is going to

hand out pirate versions of the software, however he lost his serial

number.Subj:  Re:what do I do....?

Date:  96-06-04 00:06:46 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


Unfortunately, the only way to seamlessly join NURBS in SI 3.5 is using zip

patch. The set up for zip patch is, how to say this?, really sucky! And

limited to boot (rows of cvs to rows of cvs, everybody oriented properly,

etc). Best bet is to ask re. plug-ins to do this at SIGGRAPH. SI just

introduced its software development kit so some enterprising soul out there

might be hacking on it....


As regards complex polygon conversion, use the web effect(it's under

model>effect>web I believe or maybe under the polygon stuff). It gives a

sort-of sliced & then skinned version of the poly mesh.Subj:  A Softimage

education...

Date:  96-06-04 15:11:36 EDT

From:  JaseHill        

Posted on:  America Online


I recently saw the new version of Softimage at E3 and was quite impressed.  I

am currently an Electric Image user but I saw some features that blew me

away.  My question is...Are there Softimage classes in Northern California

and is there an Education Version of Softimage or a demo version. (For NT of

course.)  Thanks for any help.

-JasonSubj:  Re:A Softimage education...

Date:  96-06-04 22:51:37 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


I think the answer is yes to all three questions. Best to call an SI sales

rep. Phone for the mother ship is 514-845-1636. THey can let you know who

your rep. is, etc.Subj:  SI on NT

Date:  96-06-10 04:13:14 EDT

From:  T Sassoon       

Posted on:  America Online


Just a note based on my current production experiences....


Beware of buying SI/NT, MIPS especially. We bought a bunch of NEC

RISCStations and NOTHING except SI runs on them!!!! Management (who pushed it

through before I arrived) seemed to have forgotten that you need a binary for

each processor family and there's no Intel emulator. Get used to life with no

Photoshop, no compositor, no nothing, except plain vanilla SI. The upshot is,

they are almost useless for production, and the artists who are supposed to

be working on them have switched to nights so they can work on an SGI.


BTW, IMHO SI is really good at some things, but getting shots out of an SGI

seems to be like pulling them out of glue. Sitting at a single 9500 with

FZ/EIAS and After Effects so far on this job I've produced almost FOUR

MINUTES of finished approved animation while the 9 SGI and NT people have yet

to produce ANY AT ALL!!!! Zero. Zip. And I built half their models!! I

frankly am not very impressed, least of all with either the quality or the

speed of SI's renderer. Sorry, that's one guys opinion.


TimSubj:  Re:SI on NT

Date:  96-06-10 13:23:05 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


Typically, I don't respond to baiting-type posts which blast a product that

the author doesn't use but, when its main thread runs so completely contrary

to my experience, in all fairness to SI, I'll play their advocate. 


>Beware of buying SI/NT, MIPS especially. We bought >a bunch of NEC

RISCStations and NOTHING except SI >runs on them!!!! Get used to life with no

Photoshop, >no compositor, no nothing, except plain vanilla SI. >The upshot

is, they are almost useless for >production


Get real. I have two SGI machines running just Alias & SI and have refused to

pay the inflated SGI prices for Photoshop, etc. When I need to use Photoshop,

deBabelizer, Fractal or whatever, I use ETHERNET to transfer the files to my

Mac and do the work there. Using Xinet, it's pretty simply to set things up

so your workstation can see your Mac disk & vice versa. Sharing resources is

not be a problem.


>BTW, IMHO SI is really good at some things, but >getting shots out of an SGI

seems to be like pulling >them out of glue.


I (and 4000 other SI clients) haven't had any problem. Hard to guess what

your peoples' problems are....It sounds like you people need some training in

how to use SI. After training myself for 2 weeks in using SI, I was producing

10-20 secs of animation easily. How 9 people at your company could be so

inept as to have produced nothing is rather mysterious.


>I frankly am not very impressed, least of all with >either the quality or

the speed of SI's renderer. 


"Quality" is too subjective. I don't have a problem with "quality."  As

regards speed, SI is a raytracer, not just a scanline renderer like EIAS. Not

important if you don't need refraction but then speed isn't that important to

me. If you want to tell what these rendering "quality" problems actually are,

maybe people can discuss if they are really problems or if perhaps they are a

result of untrained use.  


Subj:  Re:SI on NT

Date:  96-06-11 02:13:54 EDT

From:  T Sassoon       

Posted on:  America Online


Sorry to get your back up on this subject, but....


>>>Typically, I don't respond to baiting-type posts which blast a product

that the author doesn't use<<<


Ah, but I do...


>>>I have two SGI machines running just Alias & SI ...When I need to use

Photoshop, deBabelizer, Fractal or whatever, I use ETHERNET to transfer the

files to my Mac and do the work there<<<


It's nice that you've got an extra Mac around. Unfortunately we've just got

one in production and it's in constant use. BTW, have you tried CAP (like

Xinet but free) or just using Fetch (Dartmouth FTP)? Much faster.


>>>Hard to guess what your peoples' problems are....It sounds like you people

need some training in how to use SI.<<<


Our people are among the best. Fantastically talented and SI beta testers.

I've noticed the production speed difference for years now, even before Power

Macs. At my last job (Dreamquest Images) the Macs consistently outproduced

the SGI's 3:1, including an almost equal number of film-res shots. With

basically the same artists on both platforms. For example, I recently moved a

tough composite from Eddie, where it was taking 60 sec/frame on an Indigo2

Extreme to After Effects on a 9500/132, where it took only 20 sec/frame.

Before I optimised the project.


>>>"Quality" is too subjective. I don't have a problem with "quality."<<<


Well, I like my shots antialiased. And in a reasonable amount of time. I also

like volumetric lights without having to ray-trace. That seems to be an SI

sticking point.


>>>speed isn't that important to me<<<


Well, all I can say is, I wish it weren't to me either!


Hapy rendering!

TimSubj:  new SI buyers...

Date:  96-06-11 12:11:04 EDT

From:  JohnLiscom      

Posted on:  America Online


I saw an interesting article that some of you who frequent this thread may

not be aware of.  In Next Generation video game magazine (#19) has an

interesting interview with Big Brother himself Bill Gates.  It is rather

interesting what he has to say in regards to that industry and his plans for

it (domination of course).  It is there that i saw the figure that 50% of all

new SI buyers go to the game development industry.  It seems that a major

reason that Big Bill bought out SI was to get a great game development tool

for his platform (95 and NT to a lesser extent).  I don't know, i guess it

just sort of surprised me.  It is something that i hadn't considered before

and perhaps some of you haven't either.


Regards,

John G. LiscombSubj:  whoops...

Date:  96-06-11 16:42:40 EDT

From:  JohnLiscom      

Posted on:  America Online


once again i screwed up.  Hey it happens!  The Next Generation issue number

is actually 18.  Sorry if this messed anyone up.


Regards,

JohnSubj:  Re:SI on NT

Date:  96-06-12 01:14:02 EDT

From:  Tropiec         

Posted on:  America Online


>>Beware of buying SI/NT, MIPS especially. We bought a bunch of Management 

>>(who pushed it through before I arrived) seemed to >have forgotten that 

>>you need a binary for each processor family >and there's no Intel emulator.

>> Get used to life with no Photoshop, no compositor, no nothing, except 

>>plain vanilla SI.


The next version of NT will include a 486 emulator, so you'll be able to run

all your favorite apps on your NEC RISCstation (although slowly)   


Alex Tropiec

Mira StudioSubj:  Re:SI on NT

Date:  96-06-12 02:01:06 EDT

From:  T Sassoon       

Posted on:  America Online


>>>The next version of NT will include a 486 emulator, so you'll be able to

run all your favorite apps on your NEC RISCstation (although slowly)<<<


When is that going into release? This year sometime? I know some people

already have betas or whatever. I read somewhere that PNP isn't going to make

it in.


TimSubj:  Re:SI on NT

Date:  96-06-12 14:50:58 EDT

From:  Tropiec         

Posted on:  America Online


>>When is that going into release? This year sometime? I know some people

already have betas or whatever.>>


It'll be out around August  ( but you know Microsoft.... ) We've been testing

it and It looks promising..


-AlexSubj:  Perf. of R5000 vs R4400

Date:  96-06-12 18:40:38 EDT

From:  JoelPilger      

Posted on:  America Online


Can anyone out there tell me what kind of performance boost to expect from

upgrading my Indy's R4400 SC 150 MHz to the new R5000 SC 180Mhz? I've heard

it boosts graphics performance for quick shades and the like, but what about

rendering?


I can upgrade for $2,000...well worth the money if it gives a significant

boost.


Thanks in advance for help,


Joel Pilger

Visual ApproachSubj:  Re:Perf. of R5000 vs R4400

Date:  96-06-14 21:58:53 EDT

From:  AFC John        

Posted on:  America Online


Hey Joel-


I know youve already seen this but ill repost it here anyway.


I just upgraded my original stock Indy R4000/SC 100mhz to a R5000/SC 150mhz,

&  did a "before and after" test with a heavy polygonal scene. Although I

dont claim it to be definitive in any way (not alot of textures, reflections,

transp, etc., just lots of polygons), here are the results for your

consideration:


(Indy-64megs RAM/200megs SWAP-24bit video-1.2 gig internal-2.0gig external)


Get>Scene>Info: GUNDAM Robot (129,076 triangles)

(an image of this robot can be found on my home pages at

www.rhythm.com~/goodman/Images/images.html)


2 lights (1 spotlight w/ raytraced shadows, 1 point light, plain vanilla)



                                  R4000SC/100                  R5000SC/150

________________________________________________________________


OPEN SCENE             50sec                              25sec


GL SHADE                 45sec                               10sec

(full screen)


SAVE                          10sec                                5sec


RENDER                      5.5min                             2.4min

(648x486

sprsmpl 2)



I dont have the Extreme package so I cant do MR tests etc, but generally I am

pleased with what appears to be a 200% speed increase overall.


AFC John

3DSIG/MGR

http://www.rhythm.com/~goodman/index.htmlSubj:  Re:Perf. of R5000 vs R4400

Date:  96-06-15 15:55:34 EDT

From:  PixelsSD        

Posted on:  America Online


>>>www.rhythm.com~/goodman/Images/images.html<<<


Should read:

www.rhythm.com/~goodman/Images/images.html


-AndrewSubj:  Re:Perf. of R5000 vs R4400

Date:  96-06-16 16:46:32 EDT

From:  AFC John        

Posted on:  America Online


>>>www.rhythm.com~/goodman/Images/images.html<<<

>

>Should read:

>www.rhythm.com/~goodman/Images/images.html


Yup, thanks Andrew. :)


AFC John

3DSIG/MGR

http://www.rhythm.com/~goodman/index.htmlSubj:  PC vsus Workstations

Date:  96-06-18 13:33:22 EDT

From:  D Grahame       

Posted on:  America Online


I'm generally a great fan of Crawfish's, but his response to the E.I. attack

has me worried a bit - "speed isn't that important to me" - WHOA. It seems to

show that perhaps consultancy rather than production has become his main

field. My recent experiences might be of some interest.


I've been struggling pretty well singlehandedly in creating a huge (in terms

of complexity) virtual world for a CDROM for the past couple of years, using

very old Mac software and Renderman running on yarc boards in Macs, and in

the last few months we've enlisted some other people with different systems

to help us for the final stages.


We found Alias seriously bogged on large databases, and Renderman on the Yarc

boards rendered many times faster than Alias on far more complex scenes. 


Spending time with, over the shoulder, of some SoftImage users showed us that

although it bristles with animation bells and whistles, it seems to be

designed with a similar disregard as Alias (though not a bad!) for handling

large datasets; it slowed significantly (while demanding heaps of memory) on

even moderately simple scenes. 


SoftImage and Alias seem to be marvellously suited to scenes with a few

elements which you want animate in complex ways (like character animation) ,

but for those of us in the world-building business, PC tools like 3DStudio,

Electric Image, and even Lightwave, Strata, and Renderman win hands down for

large datasets in my opinion, and experience.


(The old Wavefront, now discontinued, was a notable exception to this. )


What has happened in my opinion is that the makers of workstation software

have lulled themselves into a false sense of security by thinking they don't

need to optimize their software for speed because the hardware will take care

of it, and on the PC/Mac side, software developers have designed tools for

years that are lean and mean because they always felt themselves writing for

underpowered hardware, but the tables have completely turned because of the

breakneck pace of hardware development on the Intel and PowerPC/Mac side, so

their hardware now actually OUTPERFORMS the low and medium end workstations.


This has resulted in a huge performance gap between PC originating software,

and workstation originating software, running on the latest respective

hardware.


The people at SGI realize this, and are basicaly starting from SCRATCH, and

not only will buyers of Alias Sketch on the Mac will be left with a product

not being further developed!  


SoftImage is a messy amagalgamation of many years of disjointed development

in my opinion - with capital provided by Microsoft maybe they will be able to

pull it together to compete with upcoming PC packages, and likewise Alias,

but I seriously doubt it.


Softimage NT is a great breakthrough, but to eclipse current PC/Mac software

for the average medium-sized production house, SI NT needs Mentalray and the

other advanced stuff like particles in my opinion, unless you only use for

its character stuff.


Alias and softImage's built in renderers have a much "harder" (and more

unpleasant, except for hard shiny objects) feel to them compared with

Renderman in my opinion - we had to seriously retouch all the Alias-rendered

images in our game to approach Renderman-standard, the Electric Image stuff

we had to retouch too, but not as much as Alias. From experimenting with

Softimage, I'm not convinced the SI renderer is much better than Alias', and

Mental Ray's prodigious hardware requirements currently put it out of our

company's, and most people's, range for rendering complex scenes, not to

mention it's not released for NT.


I'd say workstation animation software for the entertainment industry

mainstream is finally on the verge of its long predicted demise, if the

PC/Mac people can address the render quality issue ie we need a Renderman

replacement! Maybe we've found it in Mentalray, if and when it is ported to

run on multiprocessor PC and PPC systems.  


SIGGRAPH will be interesting this year!


regards,


Donald GrahameSubj:  Re:PC vsus Workstations

Date:  96-06-18 14:11:09 EDT

From:  ErikTek1        

Posted on:  America Online


>>>SIGGRAPH will be interesting this year!<<<


Yes Grahame, I agree with you on that. ;-)

Very interesting post, I wish I could dump some more on SI, but I can't.

Them dang NDAs.


Erik D.Subj:  Re:PC vsus Workstations

Date:  96-06-18 17:56:58 EDT

From:  Alias3D         

Posted on:  America Online


<<The old Wavefront, now discontinued, was a notable exception to this. >>


Wavefront was not discontinued in any way! An upgrade to the Wavefront line

of products was recently released and the Santa Barbara programmers are

heavily involved in working on Maya. The company I work for is officially

called Alias|Wavefront and while the head office ended up being in Toronto

the future will be defined by all participants. If any Alias|Wavefront

product doesn't have a next release it is because of Maya. 


An example of the Wavefront influence is that our new IK in PowerAnimator

V7.5 is strongly influenced by the solid workflow of Kinemation. 


While I can't speak of Maya's ability to deal with larger databases, the

Wavefront influence should make us stronger in this key area.


Robert Magee

Alias(Wavefont)3DSubj:  Re:PC vsus Workstations

Date:  96-06-18 20:39:51 EDT

From:  D Grahame       

Posted on:  America Online


I didn't Wavefront was being discontinued, although if you want to argue

about that, you answered that point yourself - the company you work for is

now called Alias/Wavefront, not Wavefront alone. I'm no expert on all the

comings and goings at Alias/Wavefront/SGI, but Alias Wavefront now has TDI's

Explore product, Dynimation, Kinemation, Advanced Visualizer, Explorer, the

Wavefront 2D product, the Alias modeller/animator line to maintain - are you

going to say that NONE of those products are in the process of consolidation,

er, discontinuation.


I was referring to the Advanced Visualizer and its timeline animation

(polygonal) product, which now has to take something of a backseat to Maya, I

hear. (Did I say discontinued?)


My point is he fact is that anybody buying Alias does not have the benefits

of this perhaps probably discontinued product anyway,(unless they shell out

another $10,000+ or so) so anybody buying Alias/SGI studio or whatever it you

call it now cannot handle very large datasets for all practical purposes,


regards, and I hope you guys wake up before its too late,


Donald G.Subj:  Re:PC vsus Workstations

Date:  96-06-18 21:49:18 EDT

From:  PixelsSD        

Posted on:  America Online


>>><<The old Wavefront, now discontinued, was a notable exception to this. >>


Wavefront was not discontinued in any way! <<<


I think what Donald was refering to was the old Visualizer line, not the

'newer' TDI and Santa Barbara Studios based products.

The Visualizer products were known for handling large databases.


-AndrewSubj:  Re:PC vsus Workstations

Date:  96-06-19 13:34:09 EDT

From:  PixelsSD        

Posted on:  America Online


Donald just finished a two year project. Welcome back Donald.


-AndrewSubj:  Re:PC vsus Workstations

Date:  96-06-19 13:53:41 EDT

From:  D Grahame       

Posted on:  America Online


Hi Andrew! Just got my shiny new 8500/150 with Remus Ultra SCSI going this

weekend, between catching up on AOL.  The finder seems to be the first PPC

machine I've used that goes as fast (or faster) than my 50 megahertz Quadra

900. It only took Apple six years! 


I look forward to giving Pixelputty  a major whirl (and dissappontingly few

other new 3D software on the Mac in th last three years.)


I should put this in the Renderman folder, but it seems the 150 megahertz 604

running Renderman is almost exactly the same speed as a single YARC 601 80

megahertz board (complete with 604 patches). No wonder Pixer dropped

Renderman on the Mac. (Renderman didn't like the Remus striping init or

Connectix Speed Doubler either.)


DonaldSubj:  Re:PC vsus Workstations

Date:  96-06-19 14:11:17 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


>>These high-flying houses who can afford to deal with SGI live a precarious

existence (aka Colossal) because of their huge capital investment in

equipment, but if you are big enough to attract SGI (or Sun for that matter),

you get free loaners of the latest toys, like those that SGI gives to

Disney/Pixar. Talk about unfair competition to the smaller shops - but that's

the way SGI/Sun does business. <<


Even before I go seek the real story behind Collosal's "demise" (I've read

what the founders have said, but the truth is another matter), I highly doubt

that it boils down to an over-extended investment in SGI equipment, as you

seem to be suggesting. There are way of unloading equipment after a purchase,

and if Collosal would go under soley because of the money lost to this than

there is something *else* at the company that is more seriously underfoot. 


Of course, representatives at Collosal have stated that they are interested

in other areas of growth, and that they would like to get away from the

hectic world of commercial production in order to pursue the greener grass. I

find this hard to chew also. Most companies need a financial backing in order

to pursue other interest: whether it be internally or externally. I seem to

think that maintaining the commercial division(were it profitable already)

would be a stronger avenue of capital growth, rather than to ditch it. There

must have been more factors weighing in these decisions - other reasons why

Collosal wasn't profitable for these eventualities to occur.


As far as the secont part of Donald's excerpt is concerned - free loaners

aren't given out just to be nice or to make the have-nots more jealous or

disadvantaged: There must be a value being supplied to both parties...like

free compute time for Pixar and free advertising for SGI and/or Sun Micro.

High-Profile projects yield high profile advertisements and articles. I don't

think it constructive to be jealous of these wheeling deals. Some of the

long-term yields may even pay off for the smaller shops in terms of increased

revenues->more resources->more research->better products(& the same products

at a lower price point). Competition? This was Pixar's first feature. Sure,

they were high-profile before that, but they finally broke into doing a fully

animated 3D feature... Any company able to do that has got to have earned a

place of regard...and support from the Hardware/Software companies associated

with such a project. Technically speaking, Collosal is to our company what

Pixar may be to yours, and yet we have never felt any competition from

Collosal. In fact, we shared work and referrals on several ocassions. We have

always felt that support is always more productive than competition...and I

certainly don't see the lack of projects out there to promote a more

agressive stance.


Scott J. Vanzo

Director of CGI

Rough Draft Studios, Inc.Subj:  Re:PC vsus Workstations

Date:  96-06-19 20:07:24 EDT

From:  ScreenRot       

Posted on:  America Online


>>Donald just finished a two year project. Welcome back Donald.<<


Those were some awe-inspiring words Donald...

Stay tuned true believers!Subj:  Collosal's "demise"

Date:  96-06-19 21:52:02 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


To all-


So far I have found out thus:


Collosal is broken down into several companies in order to protect the whole

against such eventualities such as this. The company that went belly-up was

Collosal Animation. The others still exist, albeit may not be as large as the

Animation component. 


As far as *why* Collosal Animation went out of business, I've heard only the

speculation that Collosal has the habit of holding onto people(via

promotions, etc) instead of letting them go between productions. This may

have caused an enormous payroll that ultimately defeated the profits that

Collosal Animation was making.


That is all I have heard so far...and it remains speculation.


-sjvSubj:  Re:PC vsus Workstations

Date:  96-06-19 21:54:13 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


sorry...I just posted this in the wrong folder...


-sjvSubj:  Re:PC vsus Workstations

Date:  96-06-19 23:19:51 EDT

From:  Graham 921      

Posted on:  America Online


Ah Donald Grahame returns.


It is always a treat to read his posting.


from one Graham to another Grahame, welcome backSubj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns,

blah, b

Date:  96-06-20 21:32:06 EDT

From:  Morogue         

Posted on:  America Online


Just wondering if there might be ANY discussion on Softimage anytime

soon?Subj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-21 01:12:39 EDT

From:  Kth Lango       

Posted on:  America Online


>> Just wondering if there might be ANY discussion on Softimage anytime soon?

<<


Start one. :) I'd love to hear more about this app, since I don't have it.


KeithSubj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-21 11:43:32 EDT

From:  Bugs123456      

Posted on:  America Online


After getting the chance to play with soft image and alias for the last three

months, I wanna buy it.  Problem was I was spoiled by playing with SGI and a

wad of processors lined up.  


If anyone would be so kind, what is the best setup/value for the buck with

softimage on the NT environment for under $20,000 per box.Subj:  Re:PC vsus

Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-21 11:49:22 EDT

From:  Bugs123456      

Posted on:  America Online


The next question is how has your luck been using NT as a server and throwing

Mac designed maps, and textures over to softimage?


As for your question about how is it Keith, Softimage made sense to me in a

few hours,  while alias's stuff still is more powerful, I find myself

scratching my head going "huh?" quite a bit.  I guess that is the difference

between the $14,000 softimage and the 40,000 alias. (lots of complex neat

stuff...lots of confusing controls)


Subj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-21 15:05:10 EDT

From:  Kth Lango       

Posted on:  America Online


>> I guess that is the difference between the $14,000 softimage and the

40,000 alias. <<


 I could see myself *maybe* someday dumping $14K on an app, but $40K? Hmmm, I

think I better get my wife a house before I try THAT one out. :) I'd like to

see MentalRay come to NT, not to mention SI 3.5. On a multi-processor DEC

Alpha or TDZ, this would be a really solid character anim set up. Now all I

need to do is learn character animation. :)


KeithSubj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-21 20:56:17 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


I was just at a SI 3.5 Beta runnin on a Dec alpha.


Here is some info...


DEC Aplha 300MHz

64 RAM

1 Gig

17 inch Monitor

and a few others that I cant remember for 16,000


Then The Base package of SI running for 8000

I did see that mental ray was working with some killer cool material shaders.

But that will jump the price up a few thousand. Again it was a very beta

version. 


The new FLEXlm liensing is also cool. Put SI on a service and run SI from any

other NT on the same network that has a SI liecnsing.


I have SI 3.5 for IRIX. It is oh so sweet. The NURBS is total redone and is

great! All new manuals


Later,

VmpreSubj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-21 21:01:11 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


Jeez, please forgive my awful spelling on that last post.


BTW, mental ray can use distributive rendering across the network on multiple

platforms. So you can use as many processors as you can buy. Which I highly

recommend cuz mental ray, as cool as it is, is so slow it makes a Mac Classic

look like a Ferriari...well maybe not that slow :) But I would think twice

before using Volumetric Lights and mental ray.


VmpreSubj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-22 01:21:17 EDT

From:  DWFlenoy        

Posted on:  America Online


>>>>> I could see myself *maybe* someday dumping $14K on an app, but

$40K?<<<<<


With the increase in the power and versitility of these apps, you'll be able

to pull down higher end jobs which in turn make you more money.  A friend of

mine charges $1000 per finished second for SGI animation.  At that rate, the

whole thing is paid off with 40 seconds of finished work.  After then, It's

all gravy...Subj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-22 04:32:18 EDT

From:  ErikTek1        

Posted on:  America Online


>>>$1000 per finished second for SGI animation.<<<


??? Yikes!  Whatever happened to $15,000 - $25,000 per finished minute of

animation?  Don't you just love it.  ;-)Subj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-22 11:14:42 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


DWFlenoy wrote:


>With the increase in the power and versitility of >these apps, you'll be

able to pull down higher end >jobs which in turn make you more money. 


The $14K gets you complete Softimage, the $40K gets you complete Alias. These

packages have roughly the same capabilities with a slight modeling edge to

Alias and an ease-of-animation edge to Softimage. I couldn't see paying an

extra $26K for Alias now. I don't find any "increase in the power and

versatility" in Alias, only a few extra features which don't currently

justify $26K to me.


Mind you, I have Alias 3.1 so I used to think otherwise. The only features in

newer versions of Alias that I'd really like to have are surface blending &

bi-rail extrusions...Subj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-22 16:47:46 EDT

From:  Kth Lango       

Posted on:  America Online


>>> Mind you, I have Alias 3.1 so I used to think otherwise. The only

features in newer versions of Alias that I'd really like to have are surface

blending & bi-rail extrusions... <<<


Well, I'm not sure if it's worth $26K, but if you had a Cyberware scanner,

Shapeshifter looks just way too cool not to try and have, especially if

you're doing character. But then, aren't actors and bluescreen cheaper? Oh

well. But this I do know, it sure would be nice to pull in a grand per

second. Problem for me would be finding clients with that kind of cash. I

would figure those aren't too awful common. That SGI & Alias could sit a

*long* time before that price was made up. But then again, I'm not in LA

either.


KeithSubj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-22 18:55:22 EDT

From:  ErikTek1        

Posted on:  America Online


>>>But then again, I'm not in LA either.<<<


***ATTENTION,,, INCOMING SUBLIMENAL MESSAGE FOR KEITH LANGO***


Pssst, come to Los Angeles, come to Los Angeles  ;-)Subj:  Re:PC vsus

Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-22 20:18:32 EDT

From:  Bugs123456      

Posted on:  America Online


<<But then, aren't actors and bluescreen cheaper?>>


that depends.

1)  computer models don't talk back. Heck they don't even know what

creativity is....less headaches, creative debates and a smaller asperin

bills.

2)  you can throw the computer model into a firey abyss, blow it up, squash

it, ..... Unfortuantely, law prohibits you from saving time and money by just

blowing up an real actor.

3)  computer models don't need to eat....save $$$ on catering.

4)  you don't have to buy computer models drinks after work....what an

inexpensive party...more fun for the crew.

5)  computer models don't need their union allocated breaks and

payscale...save lots of time and $$$$

6)  When you go home at night, you don't have to worry if your talent will a)

show up on time? b) while they may be breathing air, are they too hung over

to actually function?

7)  computer models don't have contracts (at least not yet)  so you don't

need a bowl of blue m@m's, special water and of course a chef to cater to

it's whims

8)  computer models can't swipe your girfriend/boyfriend. (Then again, maybe

that isn't an advantage)

9)  bluescreen paint is $80 a gallon!  You can use plain ole Sherwin Williams

"powder puff blue" for $9.95 a gallon to paint the computer lab.  

10) computer models can't tell you that your ideas really s*(#'s.

Subj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-23 00:57:39 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


>Well, I'm not sure if it's worth $26K, but if you had >a Cyberware scanner,

Shapeshifter looks just way >too cool not to try and have,


You can already do basically this same thing in SI using weighted shape

animation. BTW, using a typical cyberware model (DXF triangles) in Alias

would be death! Alias is great for Nurbs but they're flat out bad re.

polygons. Subj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-23 03:05:53 EDT

From:  Kth Lango       

Posted on:  America Online


>> Pssst, come to Los Angeles, come to Los Angeles  ;-) <<



Yikes!!!  Been there before. Can't say as I would like to raise my family

there. Not to mention that California is the only state in the union that

makes New York taxes and regulation look good.

Diffrent strokes I guess.  :)


Keith


PS: Psst! Drive by shootings, drive by shootings. :)Subj:  Re:PC vsus

Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-23 03:11:06 EDT

From:  Kth Lango       

Posted on:  America Online


>> You can already do basically this same thing in SI using weighted shape

animation. BTW, using a typical cyberware model (DXF triangles) in Alias

would be death! Alias is great for Nurbs but they're flat out bad re.

polygons. <<


Crawfish, I show my ignorance. All I know of Alias or Si is what I read and

hear. Sometimes I don't put the pieces together too well, or can't find them

altogether! :) 

Thanks for the correction and info. Seriously tho, I can see myself

justifying an NT/SI set up if the price was right (< $15K). But I'd *really*

have to try it out first. Where could a person "test-drive" such a setup?

(No, I don't know anybody besides Dong who has it, and he's in LA. Am I

seeing a pattern here? :)


KeithSubj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-23 13:09:10 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


>I can see myself justifying an NT/SI set up if the >price was right (<

$15K). But I'd *really* have to try >it out first. Where could a person

"test-drive" such a >setup?


SI did have an introductory offer on the SI/NT combo that came in about $15K

but I don't know if it's still available. Other routes to consider might be

gettting a refurbished SGI system (call SGI for that or look up resellers in

Silicon Graphics World). If the intro. price isn't available, you'll probably

be looking at roughly $22K but then, SIGGRAPH is coming up & SI is trying to

make a splash with SI NT so maybe they'll be dealing....


As regards a test-drive, find your local SI rep. If you don't know where or

who that is, the ph. no. for the SI mothership is 514-845-1636. Just ask for

sales....Subj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-24 14:26:34 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


ACrawfish wrote:


>>The $14K gets you complete Softimage, the $40K gets you complete Alias. <<


Just to set the record straight... Alias PA now goes for $10k per module,

which makes it $30k for the entire package(last I spoke with my sales rep).

It is possible that you could wheel/deal down to $25k, and even better deals

might be had under current bundle offers that SGI is promoting. I keep on

recieving faxes from dealers(of A|W and SI bundles) with their latest. This

is good news.


-sjv

Subj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-24 15:24:49 EDT

From:  Bugs123456      

Posted on:  America Online


.<< Alias PA now goes for $10k per module, which makes it $30k for the entire

package(last I spoke with my sales rep).>>


this is true,  I was quoting those silly retail prices that they like to use

before they subtract the discount to ease the pain of spending that much

money on a piece of software.Subj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-24 17:52:38 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


>>this is true,  I was quoting those silly retail prices that they like to

use before they subtract the discount to ease the pain of spending that much

money on a piece of software.<<


Huh? The only two prices that I've ever heard of were the $15k per module

(all three: $45k) from last year and the recently reduced $10k per (all

three: $30k) figure. Alias has never discounted prices much(+/- $5k, more

perhaps if your buying more seats), and rarily does until a quote is written.



This is all trivial, however.


-sjvSubj:  Re:PC vsus Wrksttns, blah, b

Date:  96-06-24 18:11:54 EDT

From:  Bugs123456      

Posted on:  America Online


<<This is all trivial, however.>>

<<(+/- $5k, more perhaps if your buying more seats)>>


yes, there is movement on the more seats issue




Subj:  Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-05 21:12:17 EDT

From:  WhatWas         

Posted on:  America Online


All of this comparison is worthless you know.

Both SoftImage and Maya (the new Alias/Wavefront) are in the process of total

rewrite. 


Millions of lines of new code.  I've seen the new Maya and talked to folks at

Disney, ILM, R&H, Post Group, and others, and this software is SERIOUS

business.Subj:  Re:Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-06 14:26:05 EDT

From:  Bugs123456      

Posted on:  America Online


<<All of this comparison is worthless you know.

Both SoftImage and Maya (the new Alias/Wavefront) are in the process of total

rewrite. >>


lol...here I thought the stuff was great.  you mean it is going to get

better?  It really is getting hard to justify staying on the mac side.Subj:

Re:Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-06 20:20:34 EDT

From:  ScreenRot       

Posted on:  America Online


>>lol...here I thought the stuff was great.  you mean it is going to get

better?  It really is getting hard to justify staying on the mac side.<<


How about the prohibitive costs?Subj:  Re:Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-06 23:52:22 EDT

From:  CD3D            

Posted on:  America Online


>>lol...here I thought the stuff was great.  you mean it is going to get

better?  It really is getting hard to justify staying on the mac side.<<


How about the prohibitive costs?<<<<


Gee that's what I was going to say.


ClydeSubj:  Re:Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-07 00:00:12 EDT

From:  Bugs123456      

Posted on:  America Online


<<How about the prohibitive costs?>>


I hear ya, it is going to be a tough nut to swallow, but where there is a

will, there is a way.  Subj:  Re:Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-07 13:15:15 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


<<How about the prohibitive costs?>>


It all depends on what you're doing. If it's running a business, the costs

are better than ever for high-end stuff. Softimage for $8K ($15K with mental

ray rendering), Alias at $40K for their 3 PowerAnimator modules & Design

Studio, SGI machines between $15K-30K. Five years ago, total costs were

$200K-300K! An incredible improvement. If you'll put $25K into a car, basic

capitalization of a CG business for about the same amount is terrific.


On the other hand, if you're approaching CG as a hobby, it does seem awfully

expensive.Subj:  Re:Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-07 15:21:48 EDT

From:  ScreenRot       

Posted on:  America Online


>>On the other hand, if you're approaching CG as a hobby, it does seem

awfully expensive.<<


I see your point on this issue ACrawfish but don't you think there are a fair

amount of people out there doing serious work on a Mac for still at least a

third of what it costs on an SGI? I think it's a pretty strong statement to

say that anything else should be compared to a hobby. Sheesh, if that were

the case I'd be riding high on the hobby horse...Subj:  Re:Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-07 17:35:54 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


>I see your point on this issue ACrawfish but don't >you think there are a

fair amount of people out there >doing serious work on a Mac for still at

least a third >of what it costs on an SGI? I think it's a pretty >strong

statement to say that anything else should be >compared to a hobby. Sheesh,

if that were the case >I'd be riding high on the hobby horse..


Whoa, pardner, putting words in my mouth there. I wasn't slamming

non-Alias/SI/SGI stuff as being for hobby purposes only. I was just giving

some numbers re. what they cost these days and trying to point out that costs

aren't anywhere near as prohibitive as they used to be. My point is that, if

you're doing business (my definition of "serious work"), you can probably

afford the more expensive stuff (if you want it) since relative cost is

becoming less of an issue. 


And rather than starting another relative cost product war, I'll just suggest

that everybody price an SGI-based system and a Mac-based one at SIGGRAPH and

see how prices compare. SGI promises to introduce INCREDIBLE, NEW, CHEAP

wonder hardware (just like they do every year....) and pricing for software

vendors is getting positively internecine (yes, blood on the floor!). It's

probably best to wait out this next couple weeks before tossing around more

dollar figures.


Subj:  Macs & SGI's

Date:  96-07-08 00:14:20 EDT

From:  WhatWas         

Posted on:  America Online


Alias has dropped below the cost of SI on an NT workstation now.


Last month they were offering Alias PA 7.0 with Inverse Kinematics and an

R5000 Indigo with 64 meg of Ram and a 2 gig drive for under $20,000.


Also, hot on the MAC is the new version of Electric Image.  Absolutely the

fastest renderer for the money that i've ever used.  And we own Alias PA,

SoftImage, 3D Studio, and Electric Image...with 4 PowerMacs, 2 Pentiums, 3

IndigoII's, and an Onyx Reality Engine II.


We just rendered a scene with 3 million polygons at NTSC resolution with tons

of effects turned on at under 6 minutes per frame!


Also, look out for Vertigo on the MAC premiering at SIGGRAPH next month.


I still love MACS.  always will.


Lets face it, all the tools are great these days...

pick a paint brush and start your masterpiece.Subj:  Re:Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-08 00:24:50 EDT

From:  Bugs123456      

Posted on:  America Online


<<I see your point on this issue ACrawfish but don't you think there are a

fair amount of people out there doing serious work on a Mac for still at

least a third of what it costs on an SGI?>>


It goes to the 80/20 rule, the mac can do the 80% that the higher ended

software/equipement can very well, but in the price/performance of anything,

you are going to pay quite a bit for that extra 20% increase.  THe equation

of price/performance is usually not linear,  more often than not it is

usually squared or cubed.Subj:  Re:Macs & SGI's

Date:  96-07-08 11:08:37 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


>Last month they were offering Alias PA 7.0 with >Inverse Kinematics and an

R5000 Indigo with 64 >meg of Ram and a 2 gig drive for under $20,000.


Still beware: Alias PA7.0 has never before included the Advanced Animation

(needed for deformations), Advanced Modeling (needed for most stuff), or

Design Studio (needed for curvature continuous curve networks) in their base

price or with special promotions. Maybe they are now (which I doubt) but

these options are an additional $10K a piece. You can probably live w/o

Design Studio but the other 2 are necessary so the real price for PA7 with

enough stuff to actually do your job might be closer to $40K.


Subj:  Re:Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-08 11:19:39 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


>you are going to pay quite a bit for that extra 20% >increase.  THe equation

of price/performance is >usually not linear,  more often than not it is

usually >squared or cubed.


As I suggested, why not wait til after SIGGRAPH to talk price/performance

with the latest round of prices. If a Mac($4K), EAIS($7.5K), & FormZ($1.5K)

setup costs $13K w/o video, "squared" gives $169K and "cubed" gives $2197K.

That doesn't look anything at all like what SGI/Alias ($40K) or SGI/SI($25K)

actually cost.Subj:  Re:Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-08 13:19:57 EDT

From:  Bugs123456      

Posted on:  America Online


<<As I suggested, why not wait til after SIGGRAPH to talk price/performance

with the latest round of prices. >>


agreed!  my question is, what cool things are the little black hole shops

doing with the sqaured and cubed technology...any ideas, concepts or

hints?Subj:  Re:Just Wait and See

Date:  96-07-08 19:56:42 EDT

From:  ScreenRot       

Posted on:  America Online


>>Whoa, pardner, putting words in my mouth there. I wasn't slamming

non-Alias/SI/SGI stuff as being for hobby purposes only.<<


Whew! Ok.Subj:  Re:softimage forum

Date:  96-07-11 17:43:29 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


Is anyone else not getting email from the softimage forum on the net? I

normally get 50+ messages from the softimage.uk user forum, but for the last

few days have received nothing? Is it just me or is anyone else having the

same problem?


thanks,


MartinSubj:  Re:softimage forum

Date:  96-07-11 18:53:23 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


Your right I havent been getting the digest form of the SI messages for a

while either...but then again when I do get the digest it is incomplete and

is missing many many messages


Later,

VmpreSubj:  Re:softimage forum

Date:  96-07-13 14:43:08 EDT

From:  AFC John        

Posted on:  America Online


Ive had that happen too, usually a desubscribe followed by a resubscribe did

the trick.



AFC John

3DSIG/MGR

Subj:  Re:softimage forum

Date:  96-07-14 14:19:18 EDT

From:  GeoMedia        

Posted on:  America Online


Thanks John, that is what I resorted to a few days ago and I am now

re-subscribed. I gotta have my daily dose of Softimage Q&A.


Say hi to my friend James Atkinson at R&H for me!


thanks,


Martin

GeoMediaSubj:  Re:softimage forum

Date:  96-07-16 11:32:54 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


How do you unscribe? 


And then How do you rescribe for the digest format.


I have forgotten how! ;)


Thanks!

VmpreSubj:  Re:softimage forum

Date:  96-07-22 11:12:00 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


I think it's:


Address: 3D-request@softimage.uk.co (maybe co.uk?)


subject: unsubscribe


body: unsubscribe (this might be unnecessary)Subj:  Cel animation

Date:  96-08-15 01:54:59 EDT

From:  JLane615        

Posted on:  America Online


Does anyone know of a cel animation interest group, be it under Softimage

Toonz, Linker Systems, Animo or what ever.  When I do a search, I usually

come up with software sales or painted cel galleries.  Are other 2-D

animators on-line?Subj:  Re:Cel animation

Date:  96-08-15 17:05:46 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


JLane-


Supposedly, there is a mailing list at 2D@softimage.com that I've been

subscribed to, as well as a mailing list for their beta software. Both have

been dead silent for months now...as far as I know.


-sjvSubj:  SI 3.5?

Date:  96-08-16 16:24:38 EDT

From:  Nurbs242        

Posted on:  America Online


I've been hearing from several sources that the big splash at Siggraph was

for the new version of SoftImage (3.5?). I'm very curious to know why this

was such a hit?  Does anyone have anything they can share about the new

SoftImage and why it is such a hit? I have some experience with SoftImage 3.0

for NT and a little with the SGI versions, but am curious to know more about

this hot new version.  I have been extremely impressed with 3DStudio MAX over

the past few months and have found it very inuitive and deep in its

capabilities for a high number of special effects and possibilities that

frankly would be very difficult or impossible in many other good high end

programs.


Anyone care to comment?Subj:  Re:SI 3.5?

Date:  96-08-16 23:06:47 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


Well, I can only account for a few things.


I have SI 3.5 running on my Indy. The major buz on the NT side is the fact

that Mental Ray and all of the custom effects that were available for the

IRIX are now available for NT.


The new Mental Ray is really hot. I never liked using it because it came with

two sample shaders, lensflare and projector. Now it comes with a boat load of

new shaders, including, 3DSnow, 3DRock, smoke, Dust, Smear, Fur and Hair,

Toon, and Static-Cling (one of my faves). But is also way easier to use,

including a auto-refreshing shader ball, so you can see your previews of your

mental ray stuff before you render. And distributive rendering for MR.


Some of the other things include support for the Sega Saturn graphics image

format and I think the PlayStation too. And direct support of the VRML 2.0

format. you just save you scene files as VRML and open it in your VRML tool,

voila.


All new documentataion, which is good and bad at the same time.


And the Extreme version ships with an all new version of particles which is a

lot easier to use and understand. And it ships with a new training kit, which

before you had to purchase separately.


But the biggest thing for 3.5 is the new Mental Ray support for NT.


I am sure that there is more but I cant think of anymore.


Later,

Vmpre


PS - Apparently, SI is also one of the few apps that can work under IRIX 6.2.


PPS - I just thought of one more thing. FLEXLm. The new licensing scheme. You

can have SI installed on a server and use a floating licene. So you can go to

other machines and launch SI from whatever cpu you want to be on that is

connected to the server. At least that is what I understand it as, I could be

wrongSubj:  Re:SI 3.5?

Date:  96-08-19 11:35:50 EDT

From:  OTownMedia      

Posted on:  America Online


Anybody know what the upgrade policy is for current SI 3.0 for NT owners, for

both 3.5 and 3.5 Extreme?

Is it shipping yet? And, does it run on NT 4.0?


Richard Lainhart

OTownMediaSubj:  Re:SI 3.5?

Date:  96-08-19 14:08:35 EDT

From:  Vanzo           

Posted on:  America Online


>>>The new Mental Ray is really hot. I never liked using it because it came

with two sample shaders, lensflare and projector. Now it comes with a boat

load of new shaders, including, 3DSnow, 3DRock, smoke, Dust, Smear, Fur and

Hair, Toon, and Static-Cling (one of my faves). But is also way easier to

use, including a auto-refreshing shader ball, so you can see your previews of

your mental ray stuff before you render. And distributive rendering for

MR.<<<



MentalRay's shading scheme (v3.0) impressed me because of some neat features

of the language, but I thought it's implementation was really weak. It is

good to hear that they finally have a "shader ball" to view settings...but it

seemed far behind Alias's shader language in the sense that in PA you can use

a texture map or procedural shader to define the uv value of just about

anything you could need. Color, Transparency, Luminousity, Reflectivity,

Specularity, etcetera can all be defined with maps and those maps can be

redefined by other maps to create more complex patterns and organic surfaces.

This is one area where Alias has a stronghold and I thought MentalRay was

SI's way of catching up in that regard. Are they working on this issue, or is

it a matter of whoever is writing the shader?


-sjvSubj:  Re:SI 3.5?

Date:  96-08-19 18:01:32 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


Wowzers, I am still very new to the high-end 3D world. But if I remeber

right, messing with how an image gets mapped in uv can be done in SOFT.


SI now has an interactive 3D paint funtion. You load in a texture map and hit

the paint button. It takes you to the paint section where a shaded preview of

your selected model. Then you can adjust where the texture map will go on any

of the polys. You can even now apply Eddie's Painterly FX to an image from

SI. Which I really like doing. And even further you can select Polys using

the g supra key and clicking on the poly you want and then paint to only that

poly and align what ever texture you want to it.


At least I think that is what you are commenting on that. I just read about

this a few days ago. I was trying to map something to a wall. The front

looked fine but the top was all streaky. So after much hunting I found the

new paint and align stuff to work out great.


Remember I am new so I could be total wrong at what I am talking about.


Comments any one, am I crazy?


Later,

VmpreSubj:  3.5 Mental Ray

Date:  96-09-17 21:04:49 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


I have had this problem as of late.


I try to render a light with a lensflare in MR and I keep getting these big

ol' white lines emintating from the center going straight vertical and

horizontal. The OZ lensflare shader works, but it doesnt have all of the

parameters that the SI one has. And it looks better anyway.


Any ideas?


Later,

VmpreSubj:  SI

Date:  96-11-23 19:23:26 EDT

From:  Llijs           

Posted on:  America Online


I will start the Visual Information Technologies Program @ George Mason

University in January 97.  What type of computer will this software run on so

I can do work @ home?  ThanksSubj:  Re:SI

Date:  96-11-24 01:43:38 EDT

From:  Rich101         

Posted on:  America Online


I built my own system with a Micron 200mhz PentiumPro with 128 megs ram,

Symmetric OpenGL graphics car and an Adaptec Ultra Wide Scsi AHA-2940.

Softimage can run on a 100mhz Pentium with a minimum of 64 megs ram but I

wouldn't recomend it. You don't even need an OpenGL card but again I wouldn't

recommend it.

Rich Subj:  Re:SI

Date:  96-11-24 13:54:53 EDT

From:  ACrawfish       

Posted on:  America Online


SI runs on NT PCs and SGI workstations. A quite viable option is to get one

of the new SGI O2 workstations (~$6-9K). Their base unit would actually work

well for "home" use of SI.Subj:  Re:SI

Date:  96-11-24 14:28:18 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


I have been seriously looking in to the O2. I really think that it will give

any NT machine a run for its money. I saw one running, vey nice, the one they

had was...


17" monitor

2 GB HD

4xCDROM (I think)

128 MB RAM

Mips 180sc

32 bit double-buffered texture mapping standard

keyboard and mouse 

new IndyCam

All for 8000! That is a great price


What makes this thing so unique is the UMA. Basically to increase video and

texture mapping performance you just add more RAM. All the graphics runs

through the main ram. To put that in perspective, the Onyx2 Reality Engine

can have a maxium of 64 MB of hardware RAM, the O2 can handle as much as you

can give it, up to 1.2 GB of RAM.


So to answer your question, I would definately look at the O2 for SI. 


Later,

VMpre


PS - Are you taking the class with Adam Newton at GMU?Subj:  Re:SI

Date:  96-11-25 11:50:40 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


>>>To put that in perspective, the Onyx2 Reality Engine can have a maxium of

64 MB of hardware RAM, the O2 can handle as much as you can give it, up to

1.2 GB of RAM.<<<


Let me clarify myself, the Onyx can handle a maxium of 64 MB of hardware

TEXTURE MAPPING RAM, which is separate from the system RAM. The O2s texture

and system RAM get drawn from the same source, hence the UMA. (Unified Memory

Architecture)


Sorry for the goofey post.


Later,

VmpreSubj:  MIPS R10000 vs DEC ALPHA

Date:  96-12-17 04:22:35 EDT

From:  WhatWas         

Posted on:  America Online


Has anyone compared SI rendering on an SGI R10000 to SI running on a 500Mhz

DEC Alpha?


How would one of the new SGI Origin 200 (2xR10000) for $19,000.00 compare to

a 2xAlpha Machine?


ThanksRe:MIPS R10000 vs DEC ALPHA

Subj:  Re:MIPS R10000 vs DEC ALPHA

Date:  96-12-19 12:15:35 EDT

From:  BGWTWO          

Posted on:  America Online


I have used the new DEC Alpha 500mhz. It is a screamer not only in rendering

but price as well. It still has a price tag in the 40K range. The graphics

board alone is 12K. I have used the R10K on an Indigo but bot the O2 yet so

It is hard to say about that. The speed performance on the R10K is software

specific. The DEC is faster from what I have seen but there is not much

written for the Alpha chip unless you run an x86 emulater.


BillySubj:  Internship available

Date:  97-01-28 17:14:00 EDT

From:  FCONCEPT        

Posted on:  America Online


Future Media Concepts - Avid's NY authorized training center is seeking

interns. 


Interns will trade  administrative and scheduling work for access to a full

range of our training courses.


Avid courses:  editing, effects, compositing and troubleshooting

Compositing courses:  Adobe After Effects

3D animation courses: Softimage 3D and 3D Studio Max. 


In addition, interns will have unlimited access to practice on Avid sytems

during evening and nights.


A great opportunity to work and learn with the best editors/animators in the

industry and become a digital media expert.


Fax resume attention Ben Kozcuh, President at 212.888.7531.




Subj:  SI and openGL

Date:  97-01-28 20:39:17 EDT

From:  Vmpre           

Posted on:  America Online


Hello 3D boys and girls.


I was wondering what people would suggest for an openGL card on a PentiumPro

200 NT machine to work with Soft.


Glyder with GLint 550 and Oxygen 102 are some that I have heard any other

suggestions?


Prices and experiences would be great


Thanks in advance!


Later,

VmpreSubj:  Re:SI and openGL

Date:  97-01-29 01:04:07 EDT

From:  STalkowski      

Posted on:  America Online


"I was wondering what people would suggest for an openGL card on a PentiumPro

200 NT machine to work with Soft."


Check out the Softimage site (www.softimage.com) and select Partners ->

Hardware Certification.  There you'll find a list of NT 3d cards "blessed" by

Soft.


Good luck!


SteveSubj:  Joe's Apt.

Date:  97-01-29 15:23:55 EDT

From:  APMODELER       

Posted on:  America Online


Steve Talkowski  - I was a little busy in Nov / Dec. and somehow managed to

miss Joe's Apartment.  I did see two different TV reviews which both slammed

it  - the FOOLS  - the clips they were showing looked outrageous !    Anyway,

do you know if video release is planned, and when ?


Joe ReidSubj:  Re:Joe's Apt.

Date:  97-01-29 20:19:37 EDT

From:  Pixel Flea      

Posted on:  America Online


It's on video right now.  Blockbuster has it.  It isn't a very good movie but

the CG is really cool.Subj:  Re:Joe's Apt.

Date:  97-01-29 23:58:24 EDT

From:  STalkowski      

Posted on:  America Online


Hey Joe,


Well, if you blinked you pretty much missed it.  It opened the last week of

July '96 and was only out for about 3 weeks.  LOL   So that would explain why

you couldn't find it anywhere in Nov / Dec.  Thanks for the compliments

though, it was a fun project for our first feature and we learned a wealth of

information.


We're working on two new features due out the year - A Simple Wish, starring

Martin Short and Kathleen Turner, about magic gone awry.  We've created a CG

frog and mouse that interact with live action characters as well as numerous

dervish magic fx.


Also in production is Alien:Resurrection.  We are creating the Alien in CG

for the first time and i must say, it's looking pretty kewl.  We're using

Alias for NURBs modeling, Soft for animation (i also created a lo-res pol

proxy within Soft) and all our rendering is propietary.


Feel free to check out our website periodically for more info.


Steve

http://www.blueskystudios.comSubj:  Re:Joe's Apt.

Date:  97-02-02 17:34:12 EDT

From:  AFC John        

Posted on:  America Online


We were bidding at R+H on Alien4 as well, but lost it to Blue Sky. I have to

admit though, this is one case where I dont mind too much at all. I know

Steve and BS will do a great job on it, and Im really looking forward to

seeing thier work on that marvelous Giger creature design.


Go guys, rah rah!


:)


AFC john

3DSIG/MGR






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