Cyberpunk FAQ
Article 920 of alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo:
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo
Path: news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!caen!uunet!pilchuck!li
From: li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus)
Subject: ADMIN: alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo FAQ
Message-ID: <1993Jan4.185024.23910@data-io.com>
Sender: news@data-io.com (The News)
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:50:24 GMT
Lines: 229
This is a list of the most frequently asked questions (FAQ) for
alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo (a.c.c.). I've tried to cover most of what folks
ask the first time around, if there are things that I've left out, please
write me and tell me. Much of this is my opinion, gleaned from what
folks say in posts and letters; therefore, most of this is still subject
to discussion and input. Last edited Nov 6, 1992.
Thanks. :) And I hope you have fun with the group.
Phyllis L. Rostykus <li@Data-IO.com>
--------
* What is alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo?
It is a group for encouraging creativity along the lines of the cyberpunk
genre. It is a group where posting prose, gif files, song lyrics, poetry,
and interactive fiction is all appropriate and encouraged. The definition
of 'cyberpunk' is still pretty much in the air, but most of it is based on
near future, dark/bleak outlook, and technology beyond what society and
human emotions can sometimes deal with. It was also created to get all
this off of the purely fact and non-fiction oriented alt.cyberpunk, so
that they don't have to be bothered with this fiction/speculative stuff.
* Are there any rules?
Jim Gaynor wrote a wonderful piece on what he thought a.c.c. was, and
these three rules came out. They seem to characterize the group well, so
I've included them here.
1) Give feedback! If someone writes something you like, tell them so!
If you don't like it, tell them! Everyone writing here is writing to
be read, and we want to know what -YOU- think.
2) Participate! Write something yourself. Join in a conversation,
join in a storyline, start up something yourself. "It's good to be
involved..."
3) Be Considerate! If you decide to participate in a storyline, be
sure to be considerate of the efforts others have made. Don't go
whomping on continuity. If you make changes in a story, or use
someone else's character - get permission! Basically, use your brain.
One additional thing that I'd like to put here is that if someone is
inconsiderate, inform them of the mistake in email, first. Try not to
ascribe to malice what might simply be cluelessness. After that, there is
a playground sorta rule in that if someone's stomping on things right and
left, they can be very easily ignored into inexistance. Flaming someone
that is fishing for the negative response is exactly what they are looking
for, so let them wait for it.
* What are these ADMIN postings?
As an exact opposite for most other groups, instead of marking story
pieces, all things which *aren't* story should be flagged with the string
ADMIN in the subject header. Discussion of how groups work for the
interactive fiction is encouraged.
* I'm completely new to this place. Where do I start?
A good place to start is with as much cyberpunk literature as you can get
your hands on. Some folks like using the Shadowrun (TM) games for a
starting point, beginning characters are pretty well limited and can be
very interesting. Most, however, make their own virtual cyberpunk reality
up. There are, presently, about five or six shade of VR on the Chat at
the moment, and were mostly made up by the people that wanted to play in
them. So make up your own if you don't particularly feel comfortable with
what's there. The one thing that isn't subject to do-it-yourself is the
Chatsubo itself, as the bar is a nexus for a number of stories and there
is already some consensus on what is there. The keyword is 'some'. If you
want to get a feel for what's happened in the bar, check out the archives
listed at the end of this article.
* Should I use the bar in my stories?
Most of the interactive fiction is centered around the bar, the Chatsubo,
as created by William Gibson and embellished by the folks of the group.
Ratz and Lonny Zone and his girls are all from the books. (The word
chatsubo == 'cha' = tea + 'tsubo' = pot/bowl). In _Neuromancer_ the
Chatsubo is in an English speaking section of the Sprawl around Chiba, in
Japan. But the location of the bar in this group is TBD by anyone that
wants to play in/around/with it. The stories have had it in Boston, along
the Eastern Seaboard, in Chiba, in Seattle, in Ohio, in Chicago, and in
unknown worlds. The year has been 2050, 2020, 2035, 2033, etc... usually
in the next century plus some, depending on how far along you think your
technology is.
One reason to play with the Chatsubo as part of the story is that the
story will get more readership. People *like* being acknowledged in
someone else's posts and are flattered when they make a big enough
impression to be included in someone else's story, even as a cameo.
As far as who else is at the Chatsubo, strake <strake@coos.dartmouth.edu>
has been kind enough to volunteer for character tracking duties. Strake
is maintaining a list that includes character descriptions. The
information that he suggests is along the lines of the following:
Name: Tiny
Owner: Sean Jameson Contact: strake@dartmouth.edu
Tiny is a big orc merc who prefers the axe to a gun.
Doesn't talk much because he doesn't like his voice. Currently in the
hospital healing a broken leg received on his last shadowrun.
He may be pinged for the information as well as being the central
storehouse for the stuff.
* Can I use magic in my stories?
There is some controversy, still, in the group, about wheither or not magic
should be allowed in the stories. Make up your own mind and/or read some
of the Kent Jenkins <jenkins@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu> stories, Klone
Crimson stories by Mark Friedman <friedman@cis.ohio-state.edu>, or various
others that have started magepunk lines. Kent has borrowed the phrase
Gothicpunk from the White Wolf games for the atmosphere of much of the
magic use in the pieces in the group. "The dark, mysterious and mystical
side of life on the streets."
Psionics are pretty prominant in the Mechanics' stories by Joan Shields
<joan@durham.med.unc.edu>.
* Should I copyright my stories? What do publishers think about Net
published stories?
Yes, it's a good idea to put a copyright notice on all your fiction if
you're thinking about getting published. The legal form is Copyright
<date> by <Name>. (c) and (C) do not count as copyright symbols. In the
U.S. and a number of other countries, there is actually an automatic
copyright for written material, wheither or not it has the notice. The
notice, however, can't hurt, and it may help someone remember to respect
your rights as an author. You're going to have to ask the publishers
you're interested in publishing with about their opinions on what Net
publication is. Some don't regard it as a publication, some do regard it
as a first time publication to a public access forum. From my paranoid
point of view, it's best to regard posting it to the Net as making the
story public domain.
As Tim Kuehn pointed out, it isn't really public domain, as you still will
have all the legal rights to the piece. The trick is in enforcing those
rights. A copyright notice informs the honest and uninformed. It doesn't
always work. I've had a friend who found one of his stories in a magazine
with someone else's name on the by-line. The original story had a
copyright notice on it. The only way to completely protect yourself from
that kind of fooey is to register the copyright as well at your local
copyright office. It's cheap and easy insurance if you really think you
have something hot, and it's something any aspiring author ought to know
about anyway.
* If you might lose your story, why the heck post it?
Because it's fun.
Because there is no other medium in the world where you can publish your
own stuff in whatever form it might happen to fall out of the keyboard in.
Because you can experiment and get instant feedback. Not only feedback of
the "I *loved* it."/"I hated it." kind, but feedback from other writers as
you see them take off with an idea that you only hinted at. Because it's
fun to create characters that other people take an interest in and actually
enjoy not only reading about but speculating about and tell you what they
think about them pretty much instantaneously.
I've had stories and articles that I've worked with and on published in
a book and magazines, and all my friends tell me that they can't, for the
life of them, find either the book or the magazines. They can all find
the Net. I find that I'm not in it for the money, I'm in it because I
love to write and I love having an audience.
Or, as Carl Rigney put it so succinctly, "You do it for the egoboo!"
* Some story/character guidelines that may be thrown out if you like:
Parodies are *WONDERFUL* and are well accepted here, and they break every
guideline that follows. The biggest thing is to Have Fun (as Phyllis
laughs until she falls off her chair at Mark Friedman's last post).
Interesting characters aren't ones that are all-powerful. This isn't a
place for 'My-character-can-beat-up-your-character'. It's pointless and
uninteresting for most readers. If someone asks 'What is the most
interesting thing about your character?" and the only answer is something
like "the 90mm cannon mounted in her ----" then it's time to think the
character over again. The same holds for magic, as well. Unlimited magic
is wish fulfillment and makes for a bad basis for a story.
A good story has tension, suspence, emotional involvement by the reader.
If a character is obviously going to mow over everything in their path,
then there simply is no point to it.
This goes for groups as well as singles. If a 'group' can pull everyone
that it might ever need out of a hat, it gets boring. It's also a good
idea to have a designated 'bad guy' if a story is a polarization between
good and bad, because then the bad guys aren't just idiots that can be
steamrollered. Again... a playing for style as opposed to munchkinism.
One particular thing to be avoided is creating brainless cretins just so
that your character can disembowl, slice and dice, and generally make soup
out of simply to show how 'bad' your character can be. Again, it's
boring and pointless and should bring on the cops or whoever and whatever
gang, corp, or organization that poor shmuck belonged to. Without
consequences, any action is pointless.
* Where can I find archives of old stories and articles?
There is anoynmous FTP access from catalina.opt-sci.arizona.edu (IP number
128.196.206.60) under pub/chatsubo. The back issues are divided into
files, roughly corresponding to the time that the articles where posted;
however, in 1992, the files are kept by article number (400-499, etc.) The
files are now compressed, and up to date as of October 25, 1992. Please
restrict FTP'ing to evening and weekends. Thanks.
Kent Jenkins <jenkins@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu>, Mark "Crimson" Friedman
<friedman@cis.ohio-state.edu>, and Dan McDonald <danmcd@cs.arizona.edu>
all maintain their own story archives and their stories may be gotten from
them through email. Kevin Lincoln Flynn has an archive of the stories the
he's been involved in available for anonymous ftp at acm.rpi.edu
[128.213.5.10] under pub/chatsubo. There are other archives of other
material, usually if you really enjoy a story line ask the author/authors
for archives and they might best be able to tell you.
--
Phyllis Rostykus | "... and how you feel can make it real | - _US_
aka Liralen Li | Real as anything you've seen | Peter
li@Data-IO.com | Get a life with this dreamer's dream." | Gabriel
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo
Path: news.u.washington.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!caen!uunet!pilchuck!li
From: li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus)
Subject: ADMIN: alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo FAQ
Message-ID: <1993Jan4.185024.23910@data-io.com>
Sender: news@data-io.com (The News)
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:50:24 GMT
Lines: 229
This is a list of the most frequently asked questions (FAQ) for
alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo (a.c.c.). I've tried to cover most of what folks
ask the first time around, if there are things that I've left out, please
write me and tell me. Much of this is my opinion, gleaned from what
folks say in posts and letters; therefore, most of this is still subject
to discussion and input. Last edited Nov 6, 1992.
Thanks. :) And I hope you have fun with the group.
Phyllis L. Rostykus <li@Data-IO.com>
--------
* What is alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo?
It is a group for encouraging creativity along the lines of the cyberpunk
genre. It is a group where posting prose, gif files, song lyrics, poetry,
and interactive fiction is all appropriate and encouraged. The definition
of 'cyberpunk' is still pretty much in the air, but most of it is based on
near future, dark/bleak outlook, and technology beyond what society and
human emotions can sometimes deal with. It was also created to get all
this off of the purely fact and non-fiction oriented alt.cyberpunk, so
that they don't have to be bothered with this fiction/speculative stuff.
* Are there any rules?
Jim Gaynor wrote a wonderful piece on what he thought a.c.c. was, and
these three rules came out. They seem to characterize the group well, so
I've included them here.
1) Give feedback! If someone writes something you like, tell them so!
If you don't like it, tell them! Everyone writing here is writing to
be read, and we want to know what -YOU- think.
2) Participate! Write something yourself. Join in a conversation,
join in a storyline, start up something yourself. "It's good to be
involved..."
3) Be Considerate! If you decide to participate in a storyline, be
sure to be considerate of the efforts others have made. Don't go
whomping on continuity. If you make changes in a story, or use
someone else's character - get permission! Basically, use your brain.
One additional thing that I'd like to put here is that if someone is
inconsiderate, inform them of the mistake in email, first. Try not to
ascribe to malice what might simply be cluelessness. After that, there is
a playground sorta rule in that if someone's stomping on things right and
left, they can be very easily ignored into inexistance. Flaming someone
that is fishing for the negative response is exactly what they are looking
for, so let them wait for it.
* What are these ADMIN postings?
As an exact opposite for most other groups, instead of marking story
pieces, all things which *aren't* story should be flagged with the string
ADMIN in the subject header. Discussion of how groups work for the
interactive fiction is encouraged.
* I'm completely new to this place. Where do I start?
A good place to start is with as much cyberpunk literature as you can get
your hands on. Some folks like using the Shadowrun (TM) games for a
starting point, beginning characters are pretty well limited and can be
very interesting. Most, however, make their own virtual cyberpunk reality
up. There are, presently, about five or six shade of VR on the Chat at
the moment, and were mostly made up by the people that wanted to play in
them. So make up your own if you don't particularly feel comfortable with
what's there. The one thing that isn't subject to do-it-yourself is the
Chatsubo itself, as the bar is a nexus for a number of stories and there
is already some consensus on what is there. The keyword is 'some'. If you
want to get a feel for what's happened in the bar, check out the archives
listed at the end of this article.
* Should I use the bar in my stories?
Most of the interactive fiction is centered around the bar, the Chatsubo,
as created by William Gibson and embellished by the folks of the group.
Ratz and Lonny Zone and his girls are all from the books. (The word
chatsubo == 'cha' = tea + 'tsubo' = pot/bowl). In _Neuromancer_ the
Chatsubo is in an English speaking section of the Sprawl around Chiba, in
Japan. But the location of the bar in this group is TBD by anyone that
wants to play in/around/with it. The stories have had it in Boston, along
the Eastern Seaboard, in Chiba, in Seattle, in Ohio, in Chicago, and in
unknown worlds. The year has been 2050, 2020, 2035, 2033, etc... usually
in the next century plus some, depending on how far along you think your
technology is.
One reason to play with the Chatsubo as part of the story is that the
story will get more readership. People *like* being acknowledged in
someone else's posts and are flattered when they make a big enough
impression to be included in someone else's story, even as a cameo.
As far as who else is at the Chatsubo, strake <strake@coos.dartmouth.edu>
has been kind enough to volunteer for character tracking duties. Strake
is maintaining a list that includes character descriptions. The
information that he suggests is along the lines of the following:
Name: Tiny
Owner: Sean Jameson Contact: strake@dartmouth.edu
Tiny is a big orc merc who prefers the axe to a gun.
Doesn't talk much because he doesn't like his voice. Currently in the
hospital healing a broken leg received on his last shadowrun.
He may be pinged for the information as well as being the central
storehouse for the stuff.
* Can I use magic in my stories?
There is some controversy, still, in the group, about wheither or not magic
should be allowed in the stories. Make up your own mind and/or read some
of the Kent Jenkins <jenkins@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu> stories, Klone
Crimson stories by Mark Friedman <friedman@cis.ohio-state.edu>, or various
others that have started magepunk lines. Kent has borrowed the phrase
Gothicpunk from the White Wolf games for the atmosphere of much of the
magic use in the pieces in the group. "The dark, mysterious and mystical
side of life on the streets."
Psionics are pretty prominant in the Mechanics' stories by Joan Shields
<joan@durham.med.unc.edu>.
* Should I copyright my stories? What do publishers think about Net
published stories?
Yes, it's a good idea to put a copyright notice on all your fiction if
you're thinking about getting published. The legal form is Copyright
<date> by <Name>. (c) and (C) do not count as copyright symbols. In the
U.S. and a number of other countries, there is actually an automatic
copyright for written material, wheither or not it has the notice. The
notice, however, can't hurt, and it may help someone remember to respect
your rights as an author. You're going to have to ask the publishers
you're interested in publishing with about their opinions on what Net
publication is. Some don't regard it as a publication, some do regard it
as a first time publication to a public access forum. From my paranoid
point of view, it's best to regard posting it to the Net as making the
story public domain.
As Tim Kuehn pointed out, it isn't really public domain, as you still will
have all the legal rights to the piece. The trick is in enforcing those
rights. A copyright notice informs the honest and uninformed. It doesn't
always work. I've had a friend who found one of his stories in a magazine
with someone else's name on the by-line. The original story had a
copyright notice on it. The only way to completely protect yourself from
that kind of fooey is to register the copyright as well at your local
copyright office. It's cheap and easy insurance if you really think you
have something hot, and it's something any aspiring author ought to know
about anyway.
* If you might lose your story, why the heck post it?
Because it's fun.
Because there is no other medium in the world where you can publish your
own stuff in whatever form it might happen to fall out of the keyboard in.
Because you can experiment and get instant feedback. Not only feedback of
the "I *loved* it."/"I hated it." kind, but feedback from other writers as
you see them take off with an idea that you only hinted at. Because it's
fun to create characters that other people take an interest in and actually
enjoy not only reading about but speculating about and tell you what they
think about them pretty much instantaneously.
I've had stories and articles that I've worked with and on published in
a book and magazines, and all my friends tell me that they can't, for the
life of them, find either the book or the magazines. They can all find
the Net. I find that I'm not in it for the money, I'm in it because I
love to write and I love having an audience.
Or, as Carl Rigney put it so succinctly, "You do it for the egoboo!"
* Some story/character guidelines that may be thrown out if you like:
Parodies are *WONDERFUL* and are well accepted here, and they break every
guideline that follows. The biggest thing is to Have Fun (as Phyllis
laughs until she falls off her chair at Mark Friedman's last post).
Interesting characters aren't ones that are all-powerful. This isn't a
place for 'My-character-can-beat-up-your-character'. It's pointless and
uninteresting for most readers. If someone asks 'What is the most
interesting thing about your character?" and the only answer is something
like "the 90mm cannon mounted in her ----" then it's time to think the
character over again. The same holds for magic, as well. Unlimited magic
is wish fulfillment and makes for a bad basis for a story.
A good story has tension, suspence, emotional involvement by the reader.
If a character is obviously going to mow over everything in their path,
then there simply is no point to it.
This goes for groups as well as singles. If a 'group' can pull everyone
that it might ever need out of a hat, it gets boring. It's also a good
idea to have a designated 'bad guy' if a story is a polarization between
good and bad, because then the bad guys aren't just idiots that can be
steamrollered. Again... a playing for style as opposed to munchkinism.
One particular thing to be avoided is creating brainless cretins just so
that your character can disembowl, slice and dice, and generally make soup
out of simply to show how 'bad' your character can be. Again, it's
boring and pointless and should bring on the cops or whoever and whatever
gang, corp, or organization that poor shmuck belonged to. Without
consequences, any action is pointless.
* Where can I find archives of old stories and articles?
There is anoynmous FTP access from catalina.opt-sci.arizona.edu (IP number
128.196.206.60) under pub/chatsubo. The back issues are divided into
files, roughly corresponding to the time that the articles where posted;
however, in 1992, the files are kept by article number (400-499, etc.) The
files are now compressed, and up to date as of October 25, 1992. Please
restrict FTP'ing to evening and weekends. Thanks.
Kent Jenkins <jenkins@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu>, Mark "Crimson" Friedman
<friedman@cis.ohio-state.edu>, and Dan McDonald <danmcd@cs.arizona.edu>
all maintain their own story archives and their stories may be gotten from
them through email. Kevin Lincoln Flynn has an archive of the stories the
he's been involved in available for anonymous ftp at acm.rpi.edu
[128.213.5.10] under pub/chatsubo. There are other archives of other
material, usually if you really enjoy a story line ask the author/authors
for archives and they might best be able to tell you.
--
Phyllis Rostykus | "... and how you feel can make it real | - _US_
aka Liralen Li | Real as anything you've seen | Peter
li@Data-IO.com | Get a life with this dreamer's dream." | Gabriel
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