PLAYWRIGHTS CORNER - co-writing 7/24/2000
PLAYWRIGHTS CORNER - co-writing 7/24/2000
WELCOME TO THE PLAYWRIGHTS CORNER CHAT - Co hosted by HOST WRTR HERONE and HOST WRTR SOFIE. Tonight's topic: Co-Writing That Hit Play.
We don't go in for protocol but let's stay on topic. Later we'll have our SHAMELESS PLUGS and general chat time.
HOST WRTR Herone: :-)
HOST WRTR SOFIE: yeppers -- here we be
HOST WRTR SOFIE: how are you tonight?
HOST WRTR Herone: Okay -- glad to be home, but I had a good time in Ill.
OnlineHost: Noel Katz has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: Hi Noel
Noel Katz: Good evening, ladies
HOST WRTR Herone: good to see you
Noel Katz: Good to be back in New York
HOST WRTR Herone: You've been on the road too?
Noel Katz: For far too long. Left town June 5
HOST WRTR Herone: I've been enjoying your posts re: R&H on ratm.
Noel Katz: Today was the first full day home
HOST WRTR Herone: I know what that's like!
HOST WRTR SOFIE: hi noel
Noel Katz: Yeah, I had to LOL when someone said nobody who goes to an art
class
Noel Katz: should paint like DaVinci
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
HOST WRTR Herone: they should be so lucky
HOST WRTR SOFIE: lol -- Really!
Noel Katz: The poster was saying that today's writers shouldn't write like
Rodgers/Hammerstein
HOST WRTR Herone: Yes. As though there's been this great improvement!
HOST WRTR Herone: Your latest post is much on topic re: cowriting.
HOST WRTR Herone: Because so many musicals go BAAAAD because of 1) poor
cowriting
HOST WRTR Herone: or 2) no cowriting!
HOST WRTR Herone: Somebody trying to do all three jobs (music, lyrics, book)
and not
HOST WRTR Herone: being able to do them all sufficiently well.
Noel Katz: I worry that I'm an insufficient book writer when I'm also doing
the songs
HOST WRTR Herone: or -- very frequent -- the cowriters aren't really working
on the same play.
HOST WRTR Herone: They THINK they are, but they're not.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: how many musicals are co-written in comparisin to those
that aren't?
HOST WRTR SOFIE: jsut out of curiosity
Noel Katz: In L.A., an opportunity came up to come in as book writer and
nothing but
HOST WRTR Herone: The vast majority are cowritten -- in that one person
rarely does all three jobs.
Noel Katz: Few are the product of only one person. There was a recent RATM
thread about that too
HOST WRTR Herone: when they supposedly are -- like Larsen in RENT -- well,
they're not
OnlineHost: Waiten 4 Godot has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: The durn thing wouldn't have gotten produced if Lynn
Thompson hadn't sat in a room cowriting
HOST WRTR Herone: with him for a YEAR.
HOST WRTR Herone: hi Waiten
OnlineHost: Bauda has entered the room.
Waiten 4 Godot: Good evening.
Noel Katz: I think that show suffers from a poor book and foolish plot
Waiten 4 Godot: Quite a crowd, eh?
HOST WRTR Herone: Musicals are exceptionally hard. It's really really hard
to do all 3 tasks well,
Bauda: hi all
HOST WRTR SOFIE: hya waiten
HOST WRTR Herone: and if you try, usually something suffers.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: howdy Bauda
Noel Katz: But - more to our point - I knocked Parade without mentioning it
by name in the post
HOST WRTR Herone: yes, I figured that one out.
Noel Katz: Parade had bookwriter and songwriter on exactly the same page...
Noel Katz: ...They both were certainly writing the same show.
HOST WRTR Herone: the book would do something, then the song would do the
same thing.
HOST WRTR Herone: but they weren't divvying up the work properly
Noel Katz: Unfortunately, it meant the same story told twice.
HOST WRTR Herone: Very frequently the bookwriter must first write a scene --
HOST WRTR Herone: the lyricist extracts the most interesting part to turn
into a song --
HOST WRTR Herone: then the bookwriter is SUPPOSED to rewrite to remove that
material!
Noel Katz: Yes, book writing is a thankless job, for that very reason
HOST WRTR Herone: Which is why writing book is so unrewarding. Your best
work gets cannibalized.
HOST WRTR Herone: jinx :-)
HOST WRTR Herone: if you're doing your job right, that is
HOST WRTR Herone: Book writing is basically about making a STRUCTURE work.
The book is the structure.
Noel Katz: Dale Wasserman rues the day he wrote a speech about dreaming the
impossible dream
HOST WRTR Herone: I'll bet! LOL
Noel Katz: because he doesn't get a single royalty off the song
HOST WRTR SOFIE: does he now? LOL
HOST WRTR SOFIE: how'd that happen?
HOST WRTR Herone: That seems unfair somehow.
HOST WRTR Herone: Because he was the book writer, and the lyricist then took
the idea and made it the core of
HOST WRTR Herone: the song.
Noel Katz: Songwriters Darion & Leigh took his speech and turned it into a
lyric, just as described
Noel Katz: above
HOST WRTR Herone: That's how the business works.
HOST WRTR Herone: I have never worked with a totally separate bookwriter.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: that's horrible
HOST WRTR Herone: Usually I have either cowritten book with a lyricist,
HOST WRTR Herone: or a lyricist/librettist has written the book and I've
done the music.
HOST WRTR Herone: so I've been a 2 person room, not 3.
Noel Katz: If you continue to be so negative, Sofie, I won't ask you to
collaborate on book
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
OnlineHost: Dancrdoll has entered the room.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: hi dancrdoll
HOST WRTR Herone: That's a fairly standard arrangement, Sofie.
Dancrdoll: hi sofie :)
HOST WRTR Herone: bookwriters not sharing in song royalties
Noel Katz: Writing book (and nothing but) seems an interesting challenge...
Noel Katz: ...but it's going to take some really impressive work for me to
trust the lyricists
HOST WRTR Herone: You have to be very selfless.
HOST WRTR Herone: Yes -- you have to believe their work is better or at
least as good as your own would be.
HOST WRTR Herone: Many musicals are put together by producers.
HOST WRTR Herone: where you're not always choosing your collaborators
Noel Katz: Producers know dick about foistering creativity
HOST WRTR Herone: I had a friend who was in that situation -- ewww, it
stunk.
HOST WRTR Herone: the trust level was subzero on that project.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: does this sort of thing happen in the world of non-musical
playwriting?
Noel Katz: The finest composer/lyricist writing today (IMO) is currently
collaborating with Marvin Ham-
Noel Katz: lisch!
HOST WRTR Herone: EEEEEE
HOST WRTR SOFIE: really
HOST WRTR Herone: Not really, Sofie. It's musicals that make the money, not
plays.
OnlineHost: Dancrdoll has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: So producers are usually only interested in making those
partnerships happen.
HOST WRTR Herone: Play cowriting happens much less frequently than it did in
the days of
HOST WRTR Herone: Kaufman & Hart.
HOST WRTR Herone: I know a husband and wife couple who collaborate on all
their plays.
HOST WRTR Herone: she is also a director in community theatre
HOST WRTR SOFIE: that must be an interesting relationship
HOST WRTR Herone: Actually Egaeus has just gotten a production of a script
he cowrote with his friend Nancy.
OnlineHost: Kaasik has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: they're also both actors -- when actors are writing for
themselves, that's more common these
HOST WRTR Herone: days
HOST WRTR Herone: like The Kathy & Mo Show.
Kaasik: hello
OnlineHost: Bauda has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: or that 2 man thing about the little town (forgot the
title)
OnlineHost: Bauda has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: hi Kaasik
OnlineHost: Bauda has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: something Texas
Noel Katz: I loved the Kathy & Mo so - saw it twice
Noel Katz: You're thinking of Greater Tina
HOST WRTR Herone: oh, Greater Tuna I mean
HOST WRTR Herone: comic actor/playwrights who are used to improv are fairly
good at co-writing
HOST WRTR Herone: they're used to give and take
HOST WRTR Herone: but even there, you either have to have 1) a great
structure
HOST WRTR Herone: or 2) a revue-style format
OnlineHost: Pjmckenny has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: If you're cowriting, storyboarding becomes a skill you
need.
HOST WRTR Herone: hi Patti
Noel Katz: My collaborator on AREA 51 was an actor writing for himself whom
I'd met through improv
Pjmckenny: Hi, Her -- sorry I'm late.
HOST WRTR Herone: glad you made it
HOST WRTR Herone: there you go
Noel Katz: PJ, I phoned in my reservation today
HOST WRTR SOFIE: hey there pjm
HOST WRTR Herone: Noel -- I'm gonna go too -- will be in DC
Pjmckenny: Great, Noel.
Noel Katz: But I agree, that structure is the most important thing
HOST WRTR Herone: structure is killer when you're cowriting
Pjmckenny: Let's talk off-topic later on that -- thrilled we'll see you.
HOST WRTR Herone: Also -- You have to have a way of settling disputes.
Pjmckenny: Her, yes. What works in your experience?
HOST WRTR Herone: One team I know has a pact: they always present a united
front to director and producer.
Pjmckenny: Hi Sof.
HOST WRTR Herone: They never allow themselves to get splintered and
triangulated.
Pjmckenny: Her, yeah, we have that one too. All fights offstage.
HOST WRTR Herone: even if they're fighting like crazy amongst themselves.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's too easy to lose trust otherwise. You don't want a
good collaboration to tank because
HOST WRTR Herone: of trust issues.
Pjmckenny: Honesty, trust -- what other "it's like a marriage" traits would
you ascribe?
HOST WRTR Herone: another one I've heard -- if you can't agree on a section,
it has to be rewritten --
HOST WRTR Herone: until everyone is satisfied
HOST WRTR Herone: no "well I like it" "well I don't"
HOST WRTR Herone: etc.
HOST WRTR Herone: With one of my cowriters, I had to have a policy of not
giving her any negative feedback
HOST WRTR Herone: when she was in the heat of enthusiasm.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: sounds sensible
HOST WRTR Herone: If I didn't immediately love it, she was hurt.
HOST WRTR Herone: We ended up with a policy of her reading her "deathless"
lyrics to my answering machine --
Noel Katz: I hate writers who get hurt so easily
HOST WRTR Herone: so that she didn't have to hear my silence, LOL
Pjmckenny: Have had that too, Her. Add "diplomacy" to the list.
Pjmckenny: Noel, so true, but it happens. Years = thick skins.
HOST WRTR Herone: the longer the trust, the easier shorthand develops
OnlineHost: DAther has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: at the beginning of creative relationships, you have to
figure out how people can take info
Pjmckenny: Her, yes. I think it's always tougher in the beginning.
HOST WRTR Herone: and how they give it.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's like f'ing dating. Puke.
Pjmckenny: LOL.
HOST WRTR Herone: takes forever to find out whether you can work with
somebody.
HOST WRTR Herone: You can absolutely love somebody AND love their work and
still not be able to collaborate
Pjmckenny: Her, yes. And what do you do with ones you feel stuck with?
HOST WRTR Herone: with them if you don't have compatible work styles.
HOST WRTR Herone: not identical, but they must be compatible.
DAther: <--used to work with ex. Focus on EX, lol.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL!
Pjmckenny: LOL, DA.
Pjmckenny: Can be done, but it's a whole other set of challenges.
HOST WRTR Herone: Patti == I don't know. It's the devil on wheels when you
outgrow a creative
HOST WRTR Herone: partnership.
Pjmckenny: Her: yes it is. Any advice from anyone on that?
HOST WRTR Herone: that can be as bad or worse than a divorce
DAther: It is really difficult when you outgrow the partnership.
OnlineHost: StoryLen has entered the room.
DAther: Pj, I think a lot depends on how successful the partnership is.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's much easier to find somebody to hang around with and
be intimate with
HOST WRTR Herone: than it is to find somebody you can write a musical with!
ROFL!
DAther: It's actually easier to leave an unsuccessful partnership.
HOST WRTR Herone: true, DA
DAther: If people want you to do more, or try another, you get stuck.
StoryLen: Herone - a million times harder, but so worth the search
OnlineHost: Musestruck has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: it's like that great line that John Travolta says in Sat.
Night Fever
Pjmckenny: DA, yes. But this one had one success (album cut) and so many
not-there ones...
HOST WRTR Herone: "Jeez -- just because you **** a woman she thinks she can
dance with ya"
Pjmckenny: ...I'd like to leave it.
DAther: Pj, then I guess you have to bite the bullet.
DAther: And tell them you've found somebody else,lol.
Pjmckenny: LOL, Her.
OnlineHost: Musestruck has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: That's a really really hard decision to face, Patti. I
don't envy it.
Noel Katz: I've had more partnerships on musicals than sexual partners,
myself
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL
Pjmckenny: LOL, Noel.
HOST WRTR Herone: gee, Noel, you must be EASY, ROFL
DAther: I find creative partners get really jealous.
HOST WRTR Herone: yes they do
StoryLen: envious or jealous?
Pjmckenny: Hoo boy, do they.
StoryLen: and of what?
DAther: One composer actually yelled at me and said I was being unfaithful.
HOST WRTR Herone: a bit of bothy
HOST WRTR Herone: both
DAther: Because I was writing a song with someone else.
Pjmckenny: DA, yes, have had that too.
HOST WRTR Herone: I had a terrible situation with a collaborator who was
trying to work on 2 projects -- mine
Pjmckenny: Len: the time, the ties, the product, any number of things.
DAther: That relationship I had to end, I hate being tied into things.
HOST WRTR Herone: and another one that was much higher profile
OnlineHost: LGHTMN1 has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: I was beside myself with aggravation, feeling dissed and
ignored.
Pjmckenny: Her: ouch, that gets hard.
DAther: Her, that is tough.
StoryLen: Herone and DA: think of collaboration as a happening
HOST WRTR Herone: Story -- I can do that, very easily, when it's a one-off
StoryLen: with a dynamic all its own, and a birth/flourishing in the
sunlight/death life cycle
OnlineHost: LGHTMN1 has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: i.e., a play where I'm brought in as a composer
DAther: Collaboration is an incredibly rich and complex relationship.
HOST WRTR Herone: but something I am creating from scratch is more like a
kid
DAther: It has all the aspects of sexual or romantic partnership.
HOST WRTR Herone: lots of nurturing, feeding, teething, diapering, etc.
DAther: Whether or not you get sexual.
Pjmckenny: DA: I like it much better than writing on my own by now...
HOST WRTR Herone: and the damn things take so long to get off the ground!
Sometimes close to a decade!
Pjmckenny: ...to the point where I use it as an excuse, and have to watch
that.
HOST WRTR Herone: it sure does
DAther: Her, yes, why IS that?
DAther: Collaborations always take a lot longer.
HOST WRTR Herone: I wish I knew! It's damnably frustrating.
Pjmckenny: DA: Don't start me on that one...
DAther: You'd think it would go twice as fast.
HOST WRTR Herone: the so called development process on musicals is
nightmarish
DAther: ACK! Development.
HOST WRTR Herone: I got spoiled working at CPT -- we'd have the idea of a
project, book a slot, and it would
HOST WRTR Herone: get done within the year
DAther: Gee, let's try it with only three singers instead of six, and do
they have to be women?
HOST WRTR Herone: good, bad, or mixed
HOST WRTR Herone: exactly, DA
HOST WRTR Herone: sometimes it nearly killed us to get the piece up but it
got done
HOST WRTR Herone: but that's the good thing about your own space and tiny
budgets
Pjmckenny: Her: that's too efficient to be real theatre, you must have
dreamed it.
HOST WRTR Herone: you're not beholden to big producers and big money
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
DAther: Pj, lol
HOST WRTR Herone: I have the tapes to prove it.
HOST WRTR Herone: Not all of it was brilliant work, but it got done.
HOST WRTR Herone: I learned as much from the really bad experiences as from
the good ones.
OnlineHost: StoryLen has left the room.
DAther: Her, kind of the "I have a barn out back, let's do a play" concept.
HOST WRTR Herone: There's something to be said about having some bad
experiences and living thru them
Pjmckenny: Her: what a wonderful situation. That could spoil anybody.
DAther: I think we've all had our quota of bad experiences.
HOST WRTR Herone: the reviews, the miscasting, the ridiculous schedules
DAther: Let's just have good ones from now on.
HOST WRTR Herone: Surviving is most of the battle.
Pjmckenny: DA: What a concept. Second you.
HOST WRTR Herone: DA -- I'm with Kander and Ebb, who say:
HOST WRTR Herone: "Every production we've ever had we've made one DOOZY of a
mistake".
HOST WRTR Herone: "What makes us professionals is we don't make the SAME
huge mistake twice. Just different
HOST WRTR Herone: ones."
DAther: Well, sure. But do the critics have to notice?
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
Pjmckenny: Her: nice, thank you. Will be usin' it.
DAther: That is a good quote, Her
HOST WRTR Herone: I love it.
OnlineHost: Donihly has entered the room.
OnlineHost: Donihly has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: that's a paraphrase -- it's from their DG symposium
HOST WRTR Herone: but the sentiment is accurate
HOST WRTR Herone: I love it. It's my mantra.
Pjmckenny: Her, that interview had good collaboration tips too.
DAther: Don't you ever get tired of being the professional one, though?
HOST WRTR Herone: What I really love about cowriting is how collaborators
give you energy.
Pjmckenny: Her: that too, and deadlines.
HOST WRTR Herone: I do, DA. But I am much more careful of collaborating
these days.
HOST WRTR Herone: Burned too often.
Noel Katz: gotta run, gang
HOST WRTR Herone: nite Noel
OnlineHost: Noel Katz has left the room.
Pjmckenny: Noel: e-mail me when you're coming.
DAther: I love my current writing partner, we're good friends and
collaborators.
HOST WRTR Herone: I am starting to hanker for it again.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: that's great to hear, DA
DAther: But I'd be very hesitant to take on a new collaboration.
HOST WRTR Herone: that's great, DA
HOST WRTR Herone: I know just how you feel DA
HOST WRTR Herone: I miss hashing things out late night over coffee.
DAther: We ought to give collaborator's personality tests or something.
HOST WRTR Herone: Working on plays by yourself is much lonelier.
Pjmckenny: DA: have gotten better at "let's try one song, see how we do..."
DAther: Make them take the Myers-Briggs.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL -- good one DA
Pjmckenny: "...if it doesn't work, no hard feelings."
DAther: Herone, isn't that the best? Late night coffee.
HOST WRTR Herone: Exactly, PJ.
DAther: Collaboration is kind of the best of being in college, that kind of
feeling.
DAther: That late-night, after-hours, let's order a pizza feeling.
HOST WRTR Herone: But for me it's not just a song. A song is a 50-yd dash.
A musical is the Iron Man
HOST WRTR Herone: Triatholon.
Pjmckenny: DA: my current favorite composer would have flunked, I'm afraid.
HOST WRTR Herone: yes, DA -- Sob! You're making me nostalgic!
DAther: Pj, lol, doesn't like pizza?
HOST WRTR Herone: that's the interesting part -- you are sometimes willing
to work with somebody who isn't
HOST WRTR Herone: your "type" if their ideas and talent click with you
Pjmckenny: DA, no, is insane, but the music is too gorgeous to let that
stand in the way.
DAther: Her, that's true.
HOST WRTR Herone: For me, it's very tricky. Because a musical is really
taking on a whole world.
DAther: The problem with insane composers is how they act in rehearsal.
Pjmckenny: Her, yes.
HOST WRTR Herone: You have to be able to convince the audience that that
world holds together
HOST WRTR Herone: and is the product of one soul -- it's magic when it
happens.
DAther: Yes, it is.
DAther: But it doesn't actually happen that often.
HOST WRTR Herone: or if not one soul -- that the "parents" aren't screaming
nuts who hate each other
HOST WRTR Herone: so the kid isn't a multiple personality, LOL
Pjmckenny: Her: and casts do hate those dysfunctional screaming parent
moments.
DAther: LOL, Her, oh THOSE musicals.
HOST WRTR Herone: you bet!
HOST WRTR Herone: I used to consult as an "instant dramaturg" with people
wanting to work on musicals
HOST WRTR Herone: I could tell within 10 minutes of meeting a collaborative
team whether they were
HOST WRTR Herone: working on the same play, and what would go wrong.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's bizarre how easy it is to see from the outside, and
how hard to see or fix
DAther: "Instant Dramaturg?" Add water and get constructive criticism?
HOST WRTR Herone: from the inside.
Pjmckenny: LOL, DA.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL sort of
Pjmckenny: Next we'll have "Dramaturg Helper."
HOST WRTR Herone: yes -- here's a packet with ground cracker meal --
DAther: For only 3 dollars!
HOST WRTR Herone: Here's an interesting trick:
DAther: At last, we've found a way to finance all our projects.
Pjmckenny: Her: very interesting though, where were you doing that?
Pjmckenny: LOL, DA, alert TCG.
HOST WRTR Herone: at CPT -- I was the producer of CPT's new plays festival
HOST WRTR Herone: and folks would bring projects in for consult to workshop
Pjmckenny: Her: they come across as cooler by the second.
HOST WRTR Herone: the Trick:
HOST WRTR Herone: Get each member of a collaborator team to describe what
the musical is about -- a 100 word
HOST WRTR Herone: blurg
HOST WRTR Herone: blurb
HOST WRTR Herone: without consulting each other
DAther: LOL, I bet that produced interesting results.
Pjmckenny: Good trick, Her.
HOST WRTR Herone: often you will see, right away, why they are tugging in
different directions
HOST WRTR Herone: Example:
HOST WRTR Herone: "A radical artist tries to save the world, with the help
of a suburban family."
HOST WRTR Herone: "A suburban family and radical artist team up to save the
world."
HOST WRTR Herone: Those are two different plays!@
HOST WRTR Herone: and that was exactly where my collaborator and I on STAR
WARES:TNG
HOST WRTR Herone: had trouble --
Pjmckenny: Great example, Her: who's it about, etc. becomes clear.
HOST WRTR Herone: he was writing 1, I was writing 2
HOST WRTR Herone: you could feel the struggle for control scene by scene
DAther: LOL, I could have predicted that simply by gender.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL DA! True
DAther: Man goes for individual struggle, woman goes for team effort.
HOST WRTR Herone: it's a very telling little example -- you can actually
machete your way thru
HOST WRTR Herone: cowriting problems by having each partner "synopsize" the
problem song, scene, act, characte
Pjmckenny: DA: they say that's the case (the sociologists, anyway).
HOST WRTR Herone: character, whatever -- by this method
DAther: Talk to any two kids, and that's the case.
HOST WRTR Herone: each writes their "blurb", you compare, try to make sense
DAther: Try to agree, which is hard.
HOST WRTR Herone: until you can come up with something where everyone is
with the program
HOST WRTR Herone: you needn't always agree -- that's an interesting thing
DAther: And THEN the director comes in and says, I don't see it this way at
all.
HOST WRTR Herone: sometimes you can put conflicting elements in, and
juxtapose them
HOST WRTR Herone: and the audience will make sense of it
Pjmckenny: LOL, DA, then they get to write their blurb.
DAther: Well, no one is one thing.
HOST WRTR Herone: yeah! There you go. That's why working on musicals is so
ridiculous.
DAther: No character has to be one thing either.
HOST WRTR Herone: exactly DA
HOST WRTR Herone: consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds
HOST WRTR Herone: but it has to make emotional sense to a viewer
DAther: My current director is trying to get me to nail everything down with
historical names and
DAther: dates, it's making me nutty.
HOST WRTR Herone: ack ack
HOST WRTR Herone: I am really cruddy at research.
HOST WRTR Herone: I'd rather somebody else on the team do that.
OnlineHost: Hbscribe has entered the room.
Pjmckenny: Her: I adore the research part. Can get lost in it forever.
DAther: She wants me to explain why Napoleon isn't in Europe.
HOST WRTR Herone: Wow, the time has FLOWN. Obviously we need more time on
this topic!
DAther: I figure, if the audience doesn't know that, to heck with them, lol.
Pjmckenny: It's a good one.
HOST WRTR Herone: at least some part of it.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: absolutely
DAther: It is a good one.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: let's do it again in the next month or so
HOST WRTR Herone: there is so much to talk about with it.
HOST WRTR Herone: you bet
HOST WRTR Herone: when I'm in town, please
HOST WRTR SOFIE: in the mean time, are there any SHAMELESS PLUGS out there?
HOST WRTR Herone: plug, PJ
Pjmckenny: I'm plugging Arthur Laurents' memoir ORIGINAL STORY BY.
Pjmckenny: What a great read.
HOST WRTR Herone: I finished my last dramaturg gig. Both plays went well --
one brilliantly.
DAther: That's great, Herone.
HOST WRTR Herone: The brilliant one (by my friend Sarah Morton) is getting
produced by Dobama next season, so
HOST WRTR Herone: I feel like I earned my pay AND helped a friend.
DAther: I just got appointed director of the American Composers Alliance.
HOST WRTR Herone: wow! fantastic DA!
HOST WRTR Herone: do we salaam you now? ;-)
DAther: I told them nobody knew composers like librettists, lol.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: I bet you're relieved, Herone
OnlineHost: The A2Panther has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
HOST WRTR Herone: really happy, Sofie
HOST WRTR Herone: because both writers felt like I helped them
OnlineHost: The A2Panther has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: and the producer was also very pleased
DAther: Her, do you feel exhausted by dramaturging? Or is it energizing?
Pjmckenny: DA, that's wonderful -- congratulations.
HOST WRTR Herone: a bit of both and neither
DAther: Thanks PJ
HOST WRTR Herone: the one readthru wrung me out
DAther: Other people's work can affect us oddly, sometimes.
Pjmckenny: Her, good for you -- a fine thing on both counts.
HOST WRTR Herone: I got paid for my little one-act production in Wisconsin.
DAther: Let's hope so!
HOST WRTR Herone: REVELATION 24:12 is getting produced at the end of July at
U. of Wisc Stevens Point
Kaasik: Where in Wi?
HOST WRTR Herone: a winner in their one-act festival
Kaasik: nice going hero
HOST WRTR SOFIE: hooray herone!
DAther: <--notes Herone likes those colons in her titles
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL
Pjmckenny: Our plug is, we're all cast and we have Liz Callaway for our
showcase.
HOST WRTR Herone: it's the bible verse reader in me
HOST WRTR Herone: fantabulous, Patti
Pjmckenny: LOL, Linda.
DAther: That's terrific, PJ, where is the showcase?
HOST WRTR Herone: I can't wait to see it, Patti
HOST WRTR SOFIE: Great, Patti!
Pjmckenny: Kennedy Center July 28-29, DA. So excited Linda and Noel will be
there.
HOST WRTR Herone: I hear that THE NAMES OF THE BEAST is now all cast for its
Omaha production.
DAther: Wow, Kennedy Center?
HOST WRTR Herone: I'm still waiting to hear about THREE THE HARD WAY
DAther: Very big time.
HOST WRTR Herone: yes -- Patti is the big time winnah!
Pjmckenny: Linda, good on you -- relief, eh?
HOST WRTR Herone: yes-- Rox Wach, who sometimes comes in here, is directing
BEAST
HOST WRTR Herone: I trust her implicitly.
Kaasik: Sofie have you heard of the ventura county star newspaper?
HOST WRTR Herone: BEAST is a, well, beast to direct. I'm glad she's doing
it.
DAther: I am still waiting for the director I trust implicitly.
Pjmckenny: Linda, that's great -- trusting the director, how wonderful.
HOST WRTR Herone: she did a great job on Mary's & my one-acts in '98
HOST WRTR Herone: so it's a return visit for me
Pjmckenny: I'd trust our director with my life: we've known each other 30
years, dream team.
HOST WRTR Herone: wow, that's fantastic, Patti
HOST WRTR Herone: trust helps so much!
OnlineHost: Hbscribe has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: esp when something is so high stakes
Pjmckenny: No kidding. Our composer still can't believe it.
DAther: Is this the insane one?
Pjmckenny: First director he's ever totally trusted.
Pjmckenny: DA: Yes.
HOST WRTR Herone: wow, that's great
DAther: Maybe trust will make him less insane.
Kaasik: Sofie?
HOST WRTR Herone: what are you up to, Sofie?
Pjmckenny: DA: great line. Applies to many things.
DAther: LOL, PJ, so it does.
HOST WRTR Herone: Well, all, I'm toasted. I fear I must go.
DAther: It's funny, my new next door neighbor is also a playwright named PJ
HOST WRTR Herone: It's been a swell, swell chat tonight.
Kaasik: Nite hero
DAther: Night herone, it really was great.
HOST WRTR Herone: we'll do another session on co-ing
HOST WRTR Herone: we promise!
Pjmckenny: Linda, thank you as always. Let me know your plans.
DAther: We trust you implicitly!
Pjmckenny: DA: will e-mail you, would like you to know of a group we have
going.
HOST WRTR Herone: I will -- still hovering between Sat. eve and Sun matinee
DAther: Thanks PJ
HOST WRTR Herone: depends on the friend I'm staying with
Pjmckenny: See you all later -- onward and upward, gang.
HOST WRTR Herone: later all!
OnlineHost: HOST WRTR Herone has left the room.
Pjmckenny: Good night.
DAther: Night all!
OnlineHost: Pjmckenny has left the room.
Kaasik: good night\
OnlineHost: DAther has left the room.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: night all
WELCOME TO THE PLAYWRIGHTS CORNER CHAT - Co hosted by HOST WRTR HERONE and HOST WRTR SOFIE. Tonight's topic: Co-Writing That Hit Play.
We don't go in for protocol but let's stay on topic. Later we'll have our SHAMELESS PLUGS and general chat time.
HOST WRTR Herone: :-)
HOST WRTR SOFIE: yeppers -- here we be
HOST WRTR SOFIE: how are you tonight?
HOST WRTR Herone: Okay -- glad to be home, but I had a good time in Ill.
OnlineHost: Noel Katz has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: Hi Noel
Noel Katz: Good evening, ladies
HOST WRTR Herone: good to see you
Noel Katz: Good to be back in New York
HOST WRTR Herone: You've been on the road too?
Noel Katz: For far too long. Left town June 5
HOST WRTR Herone: I've been enjoying your posts re: R&H on ratm.
Noel Katz: Today was the first full day home
HOST WRTR Herone: I know what that's like!
HOST WRTR SOFIE: hi noel
Noel Katz: Yeah, I had to LOL when someone said nobody who goes to an art
class
Noel Katz: should paint like DaVinci
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
HOST WRTR Herone: they should be so lucky
HOST WRTR SOFIE: lol -- Really!
Noel Katz: The poster was saying that today's writers shouldn't write like
Rodgers/Hammerstein
HOST WRTR Herone: Yes. As though there's been this great improvement!
HOST WRTR Herone: Your latest post is much on topic re: cowriting.
HOST WRTR Herone: Because so many musicals go BAAAAD because of 1) poor
cowriting
HOST WRTR Herone: or 2) no cowriting!
HOST WRTR Herone: Somebody trying to do all three jobs (music, lyrics, book)
and not
HOST WRTR Herone: being able to do them all sufficiently well.
Noel Katz: I worry that I'm an insufficient book writer when I'm also doing
the songs
HOST WRTR Herone: or -- very frequent -- the cowriters aren't really working
on the same play.
HOST WRTR Herone: They THINK they are, but they're not.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: how many musicals are co-written in comparisin to those
that aren't?
HOST WRTR SOFIE: jsut out of curiosity
Noel Katz: In L.A., an opportunity came up to come in as book writer and
nothing but
HOST WRTR Herone: The vast majority are cowritten -- in that one person
rarely does all three jobs.
Noel Katz: Few are the product of only one person. There was a recent RATM
thread about that too
HOST WRTR Herone: when they supposedly are -- like Larsen in RENT -- well,
they're not
OnlineHost: Waiten 4 Godot has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: The durn thing wouldn't have gotten produced if Lynn
Thompson hadn't sat in a room cowriting
HOST WRTR Herone: with him for a YEAR.
HOST WRTR Herone: hi Waiten
OnlineHost: Bauda has entered the room.
Waiten 4 Godot: Good evening.
Noel Katz: I think that show suffers from a poor book and foolish plot
Waiten 4 Godot: Quite a crowd, eh?
HOST WRTR Herone: Musicals are exceptionally hard. It's really really hard
to do all 3 tasks well,
Bauda: hi all
HOST WRTR SOFIE: hya waiten
HOST WRTR Herone: and if you try, usually something suffers.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: howdy Bauda
Noel Katz: But - more to our point - I knocked Parade without mentioning it
by name in the post
HOST WRTR Herone: yes, I figured that one out.
Noel Katz: Parade had bookwriter and songwriter on exactly the same page...
Noel Katz: ...They both were certainly writing the same show.
HOST WRTR Herone: the book would do something, then the song would do the
same thing.
HOST WRTR Herone: but they weren't divvying up the work properly
Noel Katz: Unfortunately, it meant the same story told twice.
HOST WRTR Herone: Very frequently the bookwriter must first write a scene --
HOST WRTR Herone: the lyricist extracts the most interesting part to turn
into a song --
HOST WRTR Herone: then the bookwriter is SUPPOSED to rewrite to remove that
material!
Noel Katz: Yes, book writing is a thankless job, for that very reason
HOST WRTR Herone: Which is why writing book is so unrewarding. Your best
work gets cannibalized.
HOST WRTR Herone: jinx :-)
HOST WRTR Herone: if you're doing your job right, that is
HOST WRTR Herone: Book writing is basically about making a STRUCTURE work.
The book is the structure.
Noel Katz: Dale Wasserman rues the day he wrote a speech about dreaming the
impossible dream
HOST WRTR Herone: I'll bet! LOL
Noel Katz: because he doesn't get a single royalty off the song
HOST WRTR SOFIE: does he now? LOL
HOST WRTR SOFIE: how'd that happen?
HOST WRTR Herone: That seems unfair somehow.
HOST WRTR Herone: Because he was the book writer, and the lyricist then took
the idea and made it the core of
HOST WRTR Herone: the song.
Noel Katz: Songwriters Darion & Leigh took his speech and turned it into a
lyric, just as described
Noel Katz: above
HOST WRTR Herone: That's how the business works.
HOST WRTR Herone: I have never worked with a totally separate bookwriter.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: that's horrible
HOST WRTR Herone: Usually I have either cowritten book with a lyricist,
HOST WRTR Herone: or a lyricist/librettist has written the book and I've
done the music.
HOST WRTR Herone: so I've been a 2 person room, not 3.
Noel Katz: If you continue to be so negative, Sofie, I won't ask you to
collaborate on book
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
OnlineHost: Dancrdoll has entered the room.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: hi dancrdoll
HOST WRTR Herone: That's a fairly standard arrangement, Sofie.
Dancrdoll: hi sofie :)
HOST WRTR Herone: bookwriters not sharing in song royalties
Noel Katz: Writing book (and nothing but) seems an interesting challenge...
Noel Katz: ...but it's going to take some really impressive work for me to
trust the lyricists
HOST WRTR Herone: You have to be very selfless.
HOST WRTR Herone: Yes -- you have to believe their work is better or at
least as good as your own would be.
HOST WRTR Herone: Many musicals are put together by producers.
HOST WRTR Herone: where you're not always choosing your collaborators
Noel Katz: Producers know dick about foistering creativity
HOST WRTR Herone: I had a friend who was in that situation -- ewww, it
stunk.
HOST WRTR Herone: the trust level was subzero on that project.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: does this sort of thing happen in the world of non-musical
playwriting?
Noel Katz: The finest composer/lyricist writing today (IMO) is currently
collaborating with Marvin Ham-
Noel Katz: lisch!
HOST WRTR Herone: EEEEEE
HOST WRTR SOFIE: really
HOST WRTR Herone: Not really, Sofie. It's musicals that make the money, not
plays.
OnlineHost: Dancrdoll has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: So producers are usually only interested in making those
partnerships happen.
HOST WRTR Herone: Play cowriting happens much less frequently than it did in
the days of
HOST WRTR Herone: Kaufman & Hart.
HOST WRTR Herone: I know a husband and wife couple who collaborate on all
their plays.
HOST WRTR Herone: she is also a director in community theatre
HOST WRTR SOFIE: that must be an interesting relationship
HOST WRTR Herone: Actually Egaeus has just gotten a production of a script
he cowrote with his friend Nancy.
OnlineHost: Kaasik has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: they're also both actors -- when actors are writing for
themselves, that's more common these
HOST WRTR Herone: days
HOST WRTR Herone: like The Kathy & Mo Show.
Kaasik: hello
OnlineHost: Bauda has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: or that 2 man thing about the little town (forgot the
title)
OnlineHost: Bauda has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: hi Kaasik
OnlineHost: Bauda has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: something Texas
Noel Katz: I loved the Kathy & Mo so - saw it twice
Noel Katz: You're thinking of Greater Tina
HOST WRTR Herone: oh, Greater Tuna I mean
HOST WRTR Herone: comic actor/playwrights who are used to improv are fairly
good at co-writing
HOST WRTR Herone: they're used to give and take
HOST WRTR Herone: but even there, you either have to have 1) a great
structure
HOST WRTR Herone: or 2) a revue-style format
OnlineHost: Pjmckenny has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: If you're cowriting, storyboarding becomes a skill you
need.
HOST WRTR Herone: hi Patti
Noel Katz: My collaborator on AREA 51 was an actor writing for himself whom
I'd met through improv
Pjmckenny: Hi, Her -- sorry I'm late.
HOST WRTR Herone: glad you made it
HOST WRTR Herone: there you go
Noel Katz: PJ, I phoned in my reservation today
HOST WRTR SOFIE: hey there pjm
HOST WRTR Herone: Noel -- I'm gonna go too -- will be in DC
Pjmckenny: Great, Noel.
Noel Katz: But I agree, that structure is the most important thing
HOST WRTR Herone: structure is killer when you're cowriting
Pjmckenny: Let's talk off-topic later on that -- thrilled we'll see you.
HOST WRTR Herone: Also -- You have to have a way of settling disputes.
Pjmckenny: Her, yes. What works in your experience?
HOST WRTR Herone: One team I know has a pact: they always present a united
front to director and producer.
Pjmckenny: Hi Sof.
HOST WRTR Herone: They never allow themselves to get splintered and
triangulated.
Pjmckenny: Her, yeah, we have that one too. All fights offstage.
HOST WRTR Herone: even if they're fighting like crazy amongst themselves.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's too easy to lose trust otherwise. You don't want a
good collaboration to tank because
HOST WRTR Herone: of trust issues.
Pjmckenny: Honesty, trust -- what other "it's like a marriage" traits would
you ascribe?
HOST WRTR Herone: another one I've heard -- if you can't agree on a section,
it has to be rewritten --
HOST WRTR Herone: until everyone is satisfied
HOST WRTR Herone: no "well I like it" "well I don't"
HOST WRTR Herone: etc.
HOST WRTR Herone: With one of my cowriters, I had to have a policy of not
giving her any negative feedback
HOST WRTR Herone: when she was in the heat of enthusiasm.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: sounds sensible
HOST WRTR Herone: If I didn't immediately love it, she was hurt.
HOST WRTR Herone: We ended up with a policy of her reading her "deathless"
lyrics to my answering machine --
Noel Katz: I hate writers who get hurt so easily
HOST WRTR Herone: so that she didn't have to hear my silence, LOL
Pjmckenny: Have had that too, Her. Add "diplomacy" to the list.
Pjmckenny: Noel, so true, but it happens. Years = thick skins.
HOST WRTR Herone: the longer the trust, the easier shorthand develops
OnlineHost: DAther has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: at the beginning of creative relationships, you have to
figure out how people can take info
Pjmckenny: Her, yes. I think it's always tougher in the beginning.
HOST WRTR Herone: and how they give it.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's like f'ing dating. Puke.
Pjmckenny: LOL.
HOST WRTR Herone: takes forever to find out whether you can work with
somebody.
HOST WRTR Herone: You can absolutely love somebody AND love their work and
still not be able to collaborate
Pjmckenny: Her, yes. And what do you do with ones you feel stuck with?
HOST WRTR Herone: with them if you don't have compatible work styles.
HOST WRTR Herone: not identical, but they must be compatible.
DAther: <--used to work with ex. Focus on EX, lol.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL!
Pjmckenny: LOL, DA.
Pjmckenny: Can be done, but it's a whole other set of challenges.
HOST WRTR Herone: Patti == I don't know. It's the devil on wheels when you
outgrow a creative
HOST WRTR Herone: partnership.
Pjmckenny: Her: yes it is. Any advice from anyone on that?
HOST WRTR Herone: that can be as bad or worse than a divorce
DAther: It is really difficult when you outgrow the partnership.
OnlineHost: StoryLen has entered the room.
DAther: Pj, I think a lot depends on how successful the partnership is.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's much easier to find somebody to hang around with and
be intimate with
HOST WRTR Herone: than it is to find somebody you can write a musical with!
ROFL!
DAther: It's actually easier to leave an unsuccessful partnership.
HOST WRTR Herone: true, DA
DAther: If people want you to do more, or try another, you get stuck.
StoryLen: Herone - a million times harder, but so worth the search
OnlineHost: Musestruck has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: it's like that great line that John Travolta says in Sat.
Night Fever
Pjmckenny: DA, yes. But this one had one success (album cut) and so many
not-there ones...
HOST WRTR Herone: "Jeez -- just because you **** a woman she thinks she can
dance with ya"
Pjmckenny: ...I'd like to leave it.
DAther: Pj, then I guess you have to bite the bullet.
DAther: And tell them you've found somebody else,lol.
Pjmckenny: LOL, Her.
OnlineHost: Musestruck has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: That's a really really hard decision to face, Patti. I
don't envy it.
Noel Katz: I've had more partnerships on musicals than sexual partners,
myself
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL
Pjmckenny: LOL, Noel.
HOST WRTR Herone: gee, Noel, you must be EASY, ROFL
DAther: I find creative partners get really jealous.
HOST WRTR Herone: yes they do
StoryLen: envious or jealous?
Pjmckenny: Hoo boy, do they.
StoryLen: and of what?
DAther: One composer actually yelled at me and said I was being unfaithful.
HOST WRTR Herone: a bit of bothy
HOST WRTR Herone: both
DAther: Because I was writing a song with someone else.
Pjmckenny: DA, yes, have had that too.
HOST WRTR Herone: I had a terrible situation with a collaborator who was
trying to work on 2 projects -- mine
Pjmckenny: Len: the time, the ties, the product, any number of things.
DAther: That relationship I had to end, I hate being tied into things.
HOST WRTR Herone: and another one that was much higher profile
OnlineHost: LGHTMN1 has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: I was beside myself with aggravation, feeling dissed and
ignored.
Pjmckenny: Her: ouch, that gets hard.
DAther: Her, that is tough.
StoryLen: Herone and DA: think of collaboration as a happening
HOST WRTR Herone: Story -- I can do that, very easily, when it's a one-off
StoryLen: with a dynamic all its own, and a birth/flourishing in the
sunlight/death life cycle
OnlineHost: LGHTMN1 has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: i.e., a play where I'm brought in as a composer
DAther: Collaboration is an incredibly rich and complex relationship.
HOST WRTR Herone: but something I am creating from scratch is more like a
kid
DAther: It has all the aspects of sexual or romantic partnership.
HOST WRTR Herone: lots of nurturing, feeding, teething, diapering, etc.
DAther: Whether or not you get sexual.
Pjmckenny: DA: I like it much better than writing on my own by now...
HOST WRTR Herone: and the damn things take so long to get off the ground!
Sometimes close to a decade!
Pjmckenny: ...to the point where I use it as an excuse, and have to watch
that.
HOST WRTR Herone: it sure does
DAther: Her, yes, why IS that?
DAther: Collaborations always take a lot longer.
HOST WRTR Herone: I wish I knew! It's damnably frustrating.
Pjmckenny: DA: Don't start me on that one...
DAther: You'd think it would go twice as fast.
HOST WRTR Herone: the so called development process on musicals is
nightmarish
DAther: ACK! Development.
HOST WRTR Herone: I got spoiled working at CPT -- we'd have the idea of a
project, book a slot, and it would
HOST WRTR Herone: get done within the year
DAther: Gee, let's try it with only three singers instead of six, and do
they have to be women?
HOST WRTR Herone: good, bad, or mixed
HOST WRTR Herone: exactly, DA
HOST WRTR Herone: sometimes it nearly killed us to get the piece up but it
got done
HOST WRTR Herone: but that's the good thing about your own space and tiny
budgets
Pjmckenny: Her: that's too efficient to be real theatre, you must have
dreamed it.
HOST WRTR Herone: you're not beholden to big producers and big money
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
DAther: Pj, lol
HOST WRTR Herone: I have the tapes to prove it.
HOST WRTR Herone: Not all of it was brilliant work, but it got done.
HOST WRTR Herone: I learned as much from the really bad experiences as from
the good ones.
OnlineHost: StoryLen has left the room.
DAther: Her, kind of the "I have a barn out back, let's do a play" concept.
HOST WRTR Herone: There's something to be said about having some bad
experiences and living thru them
Pjmckenny: Her: what a wonderful situation. That could spoil anybody.
DAther: I think we've all had our quota of bad experiences.
HOST WRTR Herone: the reviews, the miscasting, the ridiculous schedules
DAther: Let's just have good ones from now on.
HOST WRTR Herone: Surviving is most of the battle.
Pjmckenny: DA: What a concept. Second you.
HOST WRTR Herone: DA -- I'm with Kander and Ebb, who say:
HOST WRTR Herone: "Every production we've ever had we've made one DOOZY of a
mistake".
HOST WRTR Herone: "What makes us professionals is we don't make the SAME
huge mistake twice. Just different
HOST WRTR Herone: ones."
DAther: Well, sure. But do the critics have to notice?
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
Pjmckenny: Her: nice, thank you. Will be usin' it.
DAther: That is a good quote, Her
HOST WRTR Herone: I love it.
OnlineHost: Donihly has entered the room.
OnlineHost: Donihly has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: that's a paraphrase -- it's from their DG symposium
HOST WRTR Herone: but the sentiment is accurate
HOST WRTR Herone: I love it. It's my mantra.
Pjmckenny: Her, that interview had good collaboration tips too.
DAther: Don't you ever get tired of being the professional one, though?
HOST WRTR Herone: What I really love about cowriting is how collaborators
give you energy.
Pjmckenny: Her: that too, and deadlines.
HOST WRTR Herone: I do, DA. But I am much more careful of collaborating
these days.
HOST WRTR Herone: Burned too often.
Noel Katz: gotta run, gang
HOST WRTR Herone: nite Noel
OnlineHost: Noel Katz has left the room.
Pjmckenny: Noel: e-mail me when you're coming.
DAther: I love my current writing partner, we're good friends and
collaborators.
HOST WRTR Herone: I am starting to hanker for it again.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: that's great to hear, DA
DAther: But I'd be very hesitant to take on a new collaboration.
HOST WRTR Herone: that's great, DA
HOST WRTR Herone: I know just how you feel DA
HOST WRTR Herone: I miss hashing things out late night over coffee.
DAther: We ought to give collaborator's personality tests or something.
HOST WRTR Herone: Working on plays by yourself is much lonelier.
Pjmckenny: DA: have gotten better at "let's try one song, see how we do..."
DAther: Make them take the Myers-Briggs.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL -- good one DA
Pjmckenny: "...if it doesn't work, no hard feelings."
DAther: Herone, isn't that the best? Late night coffee.
HOST WRTR Herone: Exactly, PJ.
DAther: Collaboration is kind of the best of being in college, that kind of
feeling.
DAther: That late-night, after-hours, let's order a pizza feeling.
HOST WRTR Herone: But for me it's not just a song. A song is a 50-yd dash.
A musical is the Iron Man
HOST WRTR Herone: Triatholon.
Pjmckenny: DA: my current favorite composer would have flunked, I'm afraid.
HOST WRTR Herone: yes, DA -- Sob! You're making me nostalgic!
DAther: Pj, lol, doesn't like pizza?
HOST WRTR Herone: that's the interesting part -- you are sometimes willing
to work with somebody who isn't
HOST WRTR Herone: your "type" if their ideas and talent click with you
Pjmckenny: DA, no, is insane, but the music is too gorgeous to let that
stand in the way.
DAther: Her, that's true.
HOST WRTR Herone: For me, it's very tricky. Because a musical is really
taking on a whole world.
DAther: The problem with insane composers is how they act in rehearsal.
Pjmckenny: Her, yes.
HOST WRTR Herone: You have to be able to convince the audience that that
world holds together
HOST WRTR Herone: and is the product of one soul -- it's magic when it
happens.
DAther: Yes, it is.
DAther: But it doesn't actually happen that often.
HOST WRTR Herone: or if not one soul -- that the "parents" aren't screaming
nuts who hate each other
HOST WRTR Herone: so the kid isn't a multiple personality, LOL
Pjmckenny: Her: and casts do hate those dysfunctional screaming parent
moments.
DAther: LOL, Her, oh THOSE musicals.
HOST WRTR Herone: you bet!
HOST WRTR Herone: I used to consult as an "instant dramaturg" with people
wanting to work on musicals
HOST WRTR Herone: I could tell within 10 minutes of meeting a collaborative
team whether they were
HOST WRTR Herone: working on the same play, and what would go wrong.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's bizarre how easy it is to see from the outside, and
how hard to see or fix
DAther: "Instant Dramaturg?" Add water and get constructive criticism?
HOST WRTR Herone: from the inside.
Pjmckenny: LOL, DA.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL sort of
Pjmckenny: Next we'll have "Dramaturg Helper."
HOST WRTR Herone: yes -- here's a packet with ground cracker meal --
DAther: For only 3 dollars!
HOST WRTR Herone: Here's an interesting trick:
DAther: At last, we've found a way to finance all our projects.
Pjmckenny: Her: very interesting though, where were you doing that?
Pjmckenny: LOL, DA, alert TCG.
HOST WRTR Herone: at CPT -- I was the producer of CPT's new plays festival
HOST WRTR Herone: and folks would bring projects in for consult to workshop
Pjmckenny: Her: they come across as cooler by the second.
HOST WRTR Herone: the Trick:
HOST WRTR Herone: Get each member of a collaborator team to describe what
the musical is about -- a 100 word
HOST WRTR Herone: blurg
HOST WRTR Herone: blurb
HOST WRTR Herone: without consulting each other
DAther: LOL, I bet that produced interesting results.
Pjmckenny: Good trick, Her.
HOST WRTR Herone: often you will see, right away, why they are tugging in
different directions
HOST WRTR Herone: Example:
HOST WRTR Herone: "A radical artist tries to save the world, with the help
of a suburban family."
HOST WRTR Herone: "A suburban family and radical artist team up to save the
world."
HOST WRTR Herone: Those are two different plays!@
HOST WRTR Herone: and that was exactly where my collaborator and I on STAR
WARES:TNG
HOST WRTR Herone: had trouble --
Pjmckenny: Great example, Her: who's it about, etc. becomes clear.
HOST WRTR Herone: he was writing 1, I was writing 2
HOST WRTR Herone: you could feel the struggle for control scene by scene
DAther: LOL, I could have predicted that simply by gender.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL DA! True
DAther: Man goes for individual struggle, woman goes for team effort.
HOST WRTR Herone: it's a very telling little example -- you can actually
machete your way thru
HOST WRTR Herone: cowriting problems by having each partner "synopsize" the
problem song, scene, act, characte
Pjmckenny: DA: they say that's the case (the sociologists, anyway).
HOST WRTR Herone: character, whatever -- by this method
DAther: Talk to any two kids, and that's the case.
HOST WRTR Herone: each writes their "blurb", you compare, try to make sense
DAther: Try to agree, which is hard.
HOST WRTR Herone: until you can come up with something where everyone is
with the program
HOST WRTR Herone: you needn't always agree -- that's an interesting thing
DAther: And THEN the director comes in and says, I don't see it this way at
all.
HOST WRTR Herone: sometimes you can put conflicting elements in, and
juxtapose them
HOST WRTR Herone: and the audience will make sense of it
Pjmckenny: LOL, DA, then they get to write their blurb.
DAther: Well, no one is one thing.
HOST WRTR Herone: yeah! There you go. That's why working on musicals is so
ridiculous.
DAther: No character has to be one thing either.
HOST WRTR Herone: exactly DA
HOST WRTR Herone: consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds
HOST WRTR Herone: but it has to make emotional sense to a viewer
DAther: My current director is trying to get me to nail everything down with
historical names and
DAther: dates, it's making me nutty.
HOST WRTR Herone: ack ack
HOST WRTR Herone: I am really cruddy at research.
HOST WRTR Herone: I'd rather somebody else on the team do that.
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Pjmckenny: Her: I adore the research part. Can get lost in it forever.
DAther: She wants me to explain why Napoleon isn't in Europe.
HOST WRTR Herone: Wow, the time has FLOWN. Obviously we need more time on
this topic!
DAther: I figure, if the audience doesn't know that, to heck with them, lol.
Pjmckenny: It's a good one.
HOST WRTR Herone: at least some part of it.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: absolutely
DAther: It is a good one.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: let's do it again in the next month or so
HOST WRTR Herone: there is so much to talk about with it.
HOST WRTR Herone: you bet
HOST WRTR Herone: when I'm in town, please
HOST WRTR SOFIE: in the mean time, are there any SHAMELESS PLUGS out there?
HOST WRTR Herone: plug, PJ
Pjmckenny: I'm plugging Arthur Laurents' memoir ORIGINAL STORY BY.
Pjmckenny: What a great read.
HOST WRTR Herone: I finished my last dramaturg gig. Both plays went well --
one brilliantly.
DAther: That's great, Herone.
HOST WRTR Herone: The brilliant one (by my friend Sarah Morton) is getting
produced by Dobama next season, so
HOST WRTR Herone: I feel like I earned my pay AND helped a friend.
DAther: I just got appointed director of the American Composers Alliance.
HOST WRTR Herone: wow! fantastic DA!
HOST WRTR Herone: do we salaam you now? ;-)
DAther: I told them nobody knew composers like librettists, lol.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: I bet you're relieved, Herone
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HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
HOST WRTR Herone: really happy, Sofie
HOST WRTR Herone: because both writers felt like I helped them
OnlineHost: The A2Panther has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: and the producer was also very pleased
DAther: Her, do you feel exhausted by dramaturging? Or is it energizing?
Pjmckenny: DA, that's wonderful -- congratulations.
HOST WRTR Herone: a bit of both and neither
DAther: Thanks PJ
HOST WRTR Herone: the one readthru wrung me out
DAther: Other people's work can affect us oddly, sometimes.
Pjmckenny: Her, good for you -- a fine thing on both counts.
HOST WRTR Herone: I got paid for my little one-act production in Wisconsin.
DAther: Let's hope so!
HOST WRTR Herone: REVELATION 24:12 is getting produced at the end of July at
U. of Wisc Stevens Point
Kaasik: Where in Wi?
HOST WRTR Herone: a winner in their one-act festival
Kaasik: nice going hero
HOST WRTR SOFIE: hooray herone!
DAther: <--notes Herone likes those colons in her titles
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL
Pjmckenny: Our plug is, we're all cast and we have Liz Callaway for our
showcase.
HOST WRTR Herone: it's the bible verse reader in me
HOST WRTR Herone: fantabulous, Patti
Pjmckenny: LOL, Linda.
DAther: That's terrific, PJ, where is the showcase?
HOST WRTR Herone: I can't wait to see it, Patti
HOST WRTR SOFIE: Great, Patti!
Pjmckenny: Kennedy Center July 28-29, DA. So excited Linda and Noel will be
there.
HOST WRTR Herone: I hear that THE NAMES OF THE BEAST is now all cast for its
Omaha production.
DAther: Wow, Kennedy Center?
HOST WRTR Herone: I'm still waiting to hear about THREE THE HARD WAY
DAther: Very big time.
HOST WRTR Herone: yes -- Patti is the big time winnah!
Pjmckenny: Linda, good on you -- relief, eh?
HOST WRTR Herone: yes-- Rox Wach, who sometimes comes in here, is directing
BEAST
HOST WRTR Herone: I trust her implicitly.
Kaasik: Sofie have you heard of the ventura county star newspaper?
HOST WRTR Herone: BEAST is a, well, beast to direct. I'm glad she's doing
it.
DAther: I am still waiting for the director I trust implicitly.
Pjmckenny: Linda, that's great -- trusting the director, how wonderful.
HOST WRTR Herone: she did a great job on Mary's & my one-acts in '98
HOST WRTR Herone: so it's a return visit for me
Pjmckenny: I'd trust our director with my life: we've known each other 30
years, dream team.
HOST WRTR Herone: wow, that's fantastic, Patti
HOST WRTR Herone: trust helps so much!
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HOST WRTR Herone: esp when something is so high stakes
Pjmckenny: No kidding. Our composer still can't believe it.
DAther: Is this the insane one?
Pjmckenny: First director he's ever totally trusted.
Pjmckenny: DA: Yes.
HOST WRTR Herone: wow, that's great
DAther: Maybe trust will make him less insane.
Kaasik: Sofie?
HOST WRTR Herone: what are you up to, Sofie?
Pjmckenny: DA: great line. Applies to many things.
DAther: LOL, PJ, so it does.
HOST WRTR Herone: Well, all, I'm toasted. I fear I must go.
DAther: It's funny, my new next door neighbor is also a playwright named PJ
HOST WRTR Herone: It's been a swell, swell chat tonight.
Kaasik: Nite hero
DAther: Night herone, it really was great.
HOST WRTR Herone: we'll do another session on co-ing
HOST WRTR Herone: we promise!
Pjmckenny: Linda, thank you as always. Let me know your plans.
DAther: We trust you implicitly!
Pjmckenny: DA: will e-mail you, would like you to know of a group we have
going.
HOST WRTR Herone: I will -- still hovering between Sat. eve and Sun matinee
DAther: Thanks PJ
HOST WRTR Herone: depends on the friend I'm staying with
Pjmckenny: See you all later -- onward and upward, gang.
HOST WRTR Herone: later all!
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Pjmckenny: Good night.
DAther: Night all!
OnlineHost: Pjmckenny has left the room.
Kaasik: good night\
OnlineHost: DAther has left the room.
HOST WRTR SOFIE: night all
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