Playwright's Corner chat

Pjmckenny: Great so far, thanks.
HOST WRTR Herone: good, busy, wacky
HOST WRTR Lud: I know the feeling.  When my mother's on the phone, I often
have to apologize.
HOST WRTR Herone: pressing on with 2 projects
Pjmckenny: LOL, Lud.
HOST WRTR Herone: bouncing from one to the other
HOST WRTR Lud: And you, Pjm>
Pjmckenny: Very busy too. 
HOST WRTR Lud: I find this week's topic especially interesting.
HOST WRTR Herone: I have a question about tonight's topic --
Pjmckenny: Lud, me too.
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes?
HOST WRTR Herone: How often have you abandoned a project, and under what
circumstances?
HOST WRTR Lud: For instance, I was thinking about Noel today.
HOST WRTR Lud: I usually abandon a project when I've started to write a
script and find it doesn't hold up.
HOST WRTR Lud: I've never completely abandoned a finished script.  But I
have reached the point
Pjmckenny: Co-written projects I haven't abandoned anything yet...
HOST WRTR Lud: where I don't promote certain scripts anymore.
Pjmckenny: ...maybe changed collaborators.
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes, that's another example of what can happen.\
HOST WRTR Herone: The worst experience I ever had with abandoning a project
Pjmckenny: But I've dropped a couple that were just not really theatrical.
HOST WRTR Herone: was when we were already 2 weeks into rehearsal (early
rehearsal)
HOST WRTR Herone: for a project that was just falling to pieces --
HOST WRTR Lud: Tell more, Herone.  Then I'll elaborate on how I changed
collaborators to improve a
HOST WRTR Lud: project.
HOST WRTR Herone: and all the collaborators decided we had to quit what we
were doing or
HOST WRTR Herone: shoot ourselves (or each other)
HOST WRTR Herone: It was very emotional.  I cried myself silly for 2 weeks
-- almost like losing a pregnancy
HOST WRTR Lud: Was this a script that you'd developed over a course of time.
Or one that you threw
HOST WRTR Herone: really felt like something had died
HOST WRTR Lud: together.
HOST WRTR Herone: We'd been working on it for quite a while. 
HOST WRTR Lud: Funny you should compare it to a miscarriage.
HOST WRTR Lud: That's particularly hard.
Pjmckenny: Understand the comparison, Linda: it really hurts.
HOST WRTR Herone: But the stress of it was killing us -- I had a slipped
disk in the middle of it,
HOST WRTR Lud: I felt that way when the show closed at Goodspeed.  MRS.
McTHING.
HOST WRTR Herone: my co-writer and director were both clinically depressed.
HOST WRTR Lud: Sounds like the tryout of CAMELOT, but at least they all
ended up with a hit.
HOST WRTR Herone: One of my close friends came to a readthru of the script
HOST WRTR Lud: Moss Hart ended up dead with a hit.  But it was a hit.
HOST WRTR Herone: and said "This is the unhappiest group of people I ever
saw
HOST WRTR Herone: where somebody wasn't dead."
Pjmckenny: Ouch.
HOST WRTR Herone: It was really traumatic. 
HOST WRTR Lud: Actually, that could describe being out of town on many a
project.
HOST WRTR Herone: I'm sure! I've heard stories about those kinds of
disasters.
HOST WRTR Herone: But this was in our home theater -- and it was,
unfortunately, a kind of roman a clef
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes, I told you that during MRS. McTHING, I actually was
hospitalized.
HOST WRTR Herone: about the theater and people in it.
HOST WRTR Lud: Had something of a nervous breakdown.
HOST WRTR Herone: It was kind of like King Lear, Goneril, Regan, & Cordelia
HOST WRTR Herone: trying to collaborate on how to write KING LEAR.
HOST WRTR Lud: Yikes.  So you had to face all those people every day
afterwards.
HOST WRTR Herone: A mistake!!
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
HOST WRTR Lud: Ooh!
OnlineHost: Librettist01 has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: Lud, that's too bad -- but I'm really never surprised to
hear about people being
HOST WRTR Herone: hospitalized after bad production catastrophes. 
HOST WRTR Lud: As I mentioned, the way I recovered from Goodspeed was to
write another show.
HOST WRTR Herone: They're the most stress I've ever faced in my life.
Librettist01: Hi, folks.
HOST WRTR Herone: hi Lib
HOST WRTR Lud: Loosely based on the experience.  And guess what.
Pjmckenny: Lud:  yeah, jump right back on and ride again.
HOST WRTR Herone: I'm so happy it worked out for you, Lud.
Pjmckenny: Hi, Lib.
HOST WRTR Lud: One character has a miscarriage--a symbol of my experience.
Pjmckenny: Way to sublimate, Lud.
HOST WRTR Herone: We were able to partially recover from our DISCORDIA
disaster by writing a thrown-together
HOST WRTR Lud: Oh, nothing like Freudian undertones in a good musical
comedy.
HOST WRTR Herone: show to save the theater -- THE CHAPEL OF PERPETUAL DESIRE
HOST WRTR Herone: PRESENTS A LITURGICAL CIRCUS OF RELIGIOUS FERVOR
HOST WRTR Herone: AND LIVE SEX ON STAGE! was the title
HOST WRTR Lud: Interesting.  Cy Coleman once wrote a flop show called HOME
AGAIN, HOME AGAIN.
HOST WRTR Herone: So it was a (sorta) happy ending
HOST WRTR Lud: After it closed, he tried to salvage it by writing another
musical
HOST WRTR Herone: "Live Sex on Stage" was the name of the band ;-)
Librettist01: That's a way to go home, I suppose.
HOST WRTR Lud: about the history of HOME AGAIN, HOME AGAIN using many of the
same songs.
HOST WRTR Lud: It was more like BOMB AGAIN, BOMB AGAIN.
HOST WRTR Herone: That would be a topic -- the shows you write as antidotes
to bad experiences
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL
Pjmckenny: Her, yes.
HOST WRTR Lud: Look, every show I write is in some way an antidote to a bad
experience,
HOST WRTR Herone: because there's no doubt that the experience colors your
other writing
HOST WRTR Herone: True, Lud!
HOST WRTR Lud: whether it was a play tryout or
HOST WRTR Lud: just family.
Librettist01: Jack Benny had that movie, the horn blows at midnight..
Pjmckenny: The healing version, eh?
HOST WRTR Herone: well, then, bad theater experiences -- they're a whole
genre
HOST WRTR Lud: I never miss an Alexis Smith/Jack Benny movie.
HOST WRTR Herone: SAY, DARLING, etc.
HOST WRTR Lud: Except SAY DARLING was based on the making of a hit:
HOST WRTR Lud: THE PAJAMA GAME.
HOST WRTR Herone: true --
Librettist01: Out here in Palo Alto they're showing all the Jack Lemmon
movies.
HOST WRTR Herone: but working our way back to the topic --
Pjmckenny: Is there any pattern to "just isn't working," I wonder?
HOST WRTR Herone: under what circumstances have you/do you give up the
ghost?
Librettist01: Right, how do you abaondon something?
HOST WRTR Lud: There are also other reasons for abandoning a project besides
HOST WRTR Lud: the fact that it's not good.
Pjmckenny: Lud, true.
HOST WRTR Herone: I have temporarily abandoned things because a)
HOST WRTR Lud: For instance, if a topic is passé.
HOST WRTR Herone: I got busy with something else and/or b) I just wasn't
being drawn by the material
HOST WRTR Herone: anymore.
HOST WRTR Lud: Or you've written a vehicle and the actor dies.
HOST WRTR Herone: True, Lud.
HOST WRTR Herone: There are some things that get shelf-dated.
HOST WRTR Lud: I'm wondering what Noel is going to do with his show now.
Librettist01: Hold him to his contract!  No excuse!
HOST WRTR Lud: I read today that Cameron MacIntosh is developing a musical
called AREA 51.
HOST WRTR Herone: I don't know the story of what's happening to Noel, so I
can't comment --
HOST WRTR Herone: ow!
HOST WRTR Lud: I was wondering if it was Noel's, but it wasn't.
Librettist01: The  theme music must go something like do do do do etc.
HOST WRTR Lud: It's especially ironic since Noel's hope was to get a
production in the UK.
HOST WRTR Herone: oh crud
HOST WRTR Herone: cruddy crud crud
HOST WRTR Lud: But I've had that happen.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's to scream.
HOST WRTR Lud: I wrote a musical version of Jean Anouilh's TIME REMEMBERED
HOST WRTR Herone: That kind of thing can really make you lose momentum.
HOST WRTR Lud: because through some miracle of copyright it's public domain
in the US.
HOST WRTR Lud: Just when things looked like they might roll, another musical
version
Pjmckenny: So there's abandonment given market realities.
HOST WRTR Lud: of TIME REMEMBERED toured in summer theatres with
HOST WRTR Lud: Glynis Johns.
HOST WRTR Herone: that's one of those DRAT moments too
HOST WRTR Lud: It was a dud.  And no one was interested in my version
because of the other version.
HOST WRTR Herone: altho there's, of course, the Kopit PHANTOM that still
does reasonable (if not land office)
HOST WRTR Herone: business
Librettist01: Seems like that happened to Maury Yeston's Phantom.
Librettist01: Kopit/Yeston.
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes, but that trades off the success of a show.  It doesn't
Pjmckenny: What about when it's just you  and a story, no outside factors to
consider?
HOST WRTR Lud: have to explain why another version bit the dust.
Librettist01: I heard that the ALW version wrecked Kopit's run.
HOST WRTR Herone: Patti -- that's an interesting question -- more internal.
HOST WRTR Herone: One thing that can happen is that you get part-way into
something --
Pjmckenny: Herone, yes, the internal one:  the critical judgment.
HOST WRTR Herone: time goes by -- and by the time you pick it up again,
you've changed enough
HOST WRTR Lud: Well, another Kopit story--of abandonment--was the
Kopit/Yeston version of LA CAGES AUX
HOST WRTR Lud: FOLLES.
HOST WRTR Herone: that it doesn't seem worth your while -- or that it
doesn't synch with your
HOST WRTR Herone: current interests
HOST WRTR Lud: Before Jerry Herman musicalized the movie, Kopit and Yeston
were working on it for
HOST WRTR Herone: For example -- after my first collaborator and I wrote THE
LAST RED WAGON TENT SHOW IN THE
HOST WRTR Herone: LAND,
HOST WRTR Lud: Allan Carr, doing an Americanized version.
HOST WRTR Herone: she had an idea for another original show called STRIKE IT
RICH
HOST WRTR Herone: about silver miners in Colorado
HOST WRTR Lud: And?
HOST WRTR Herone: actually some of the plot came because she was so
impressed with
HOST WRTR Lud: Did you compete with each other or combine ideas?
HOST WRTR Herone: that 8 hour piece in the 1980's that had touring players
HOST WRTR Herone: She and I wrote several songs for the show -- but somehow
we ran out of steam.
HOST WRTR Herone: I felt that the structure was too similar to RED WAGON
HOST WRTR Herone: and by then I had become really involved with CPT, writing
other things and producing there
HOST WRTR Herone: doing more experimental theatre --
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes, that's another bummer.
Librettist01: I got a bit more than part way into mine; I have enough done
for a sort of a one-act
Pjmckenny: There's another "give it up" reason:  realizing you're repeating
yourself.
HOST WRTR Herone: we just drifted apart in and went on different courses
Librettist01: musical, but don't have the confidence to try to sell it.
HOST WRTR Lud: When you have a good idea and someone else seems to get there
first.
HOST WRTR Herone: that's true, Lud
HOST WRTR Lud: You know my SECRET GARDEN story, don't you?
HOST WRTR Herone: Another thing that can happen with collaborators is that
HOST WRTR Herone: you go thru enough rocky stuff that you don't want to
peat/repeat
HOST WRTR Herone: on another show
HOST WRTR Herone: I heard part of it, Lud, but not all --
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HOST WRTR Lud: Just that an agent called me in to suggest I write a musical
version of THE SECRET GARDEN.
Librettist01: Hi, patd.
HOST WRTR Herone: hi Pat
patd97: Hi
Pjmckenny: Good evening, Pat.
HOST WRTR Lud: He suggested I use it as a testing ground with the composer
Lucy Simon.
HOST WRTR Lud: I wrote an outline, several lyrics, and she set one or two.
HOST WRTR Lud: Then we just kind of gave up on it.
HOST WRTR Herone: holy *****
HOST WRTR Lud: Years later, she wrote THE SECRET GARDEN with Ms. Norman.
HOST WRTR Herone: That's gotta be aggravating! 
Pjmckenny: Lud:  do you recall why you gave up on it?
Librettist01: So near and yet so far...
HOST WRTR Herone: or perhaps not
HOST WRTR Herone: if the material wasn't sparking you
HOST WRTR Lud: Actually, I hated the Broadway show, so I don't really feel
that bad about it.
Librettist01: You may have done a lot better; Secret Garden is a good show,
but the book seems a little
Librettist01: weak to me.
HOST WRTR Herone: I know at least one collaborator who had to put in her
contract
HOST WRTR Herone: that she wouldn't be allowed to write a show on the same
subject
HOST WRTR Lud: I was interested.  I seems Lucy Simon went off on some other
project.
Pjmckenny: Lud:  ah.
HOST WRTR Lud: Then later picked up the idea with someone else.  It was
HOST WRTR Herone: for at least 5 years if she left the project.
HOST WRTR Lud: actually many years later.
HOST WRTR Herone: That's one way to protect that situation from happening.
HOST WRTR Herone: if you're initiating the project --
HOST WRTR Lud: But I still recite the mantra, Marsha, Marsha, Marsha.
Pjmckenny: LOL, Lud.
Librettist01: Sounds like it was a mutual withdrawal from the project, so
maybe that situation wouldn't
Librettist01: apply.
HOST WRTR Herone: I know somebody who left the musical BABY -- it was partly
her idea, too
HOST WRTR Lud: Then there are instances where the failure of one property
leads to another.
HOST WRTR Herone: True, Lud --
HOST WRTR Lud: Neil Simon closed down BOGART SLEPT HERE.
HOST WRTR Lud: Then overhauled that script and ended up with THE GOODBYE
GIRL.
HOST WRTR Lud: Both films, of course.
HOST WRTR Herone: Let's go back to those situations where it isn't failure
so much as giving up on the piece
Librettist01: That sounds like quite a transition.
HOST WRTR Herone: at different stages, and why
Librettist01: Neil Simon is a good example, though, since what he wrote
seems to work in any medium.
Pjmckenny: Her, yeah:  when you might know it just isn't going to fly.
HOST WRTR Herone: I've had people put scripts back in the drawer after they
had 2 very strong bad reactions
HOST WRTR Lud: When I came back from Goodspeed, the first show I started
writing
HOST WRTR Herone: after 2 readings
HOST WRTR Lud: was about an insane asylum.
HOST WRTR Herone: The audience & peer reaction was so negative that my
friend just said
HOST WRTR Herone: "oh, well, maybe it IS a bad idea"
Librettist01: ...And that  inoculated you from going crazy later...
HOST WRTR Lud: I wrote about three pages and realized I was just venting and
not writing.
Pjmckenny: Her, that's certainly a way.
HOST WRTR Herone: good point, Lud
HOST WRTR Herone: There is a difference -- when you discover, for example,
Librettist01: brb
HOST WRTR Herone: that you're too close to the material to make it work.
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes.  There's the third in my CHARLOTTE SWEET trilogy, HAPPY
HAUNTING.
Pjmckenny: Lud, that's a good barometer.
HOST WRTR Herone: That's one of the reasons we folded DISCORDIA -- it
HOST WRTR Lud: Which I shelved.
HOST WRTR Herone: was just too personal & messed up for us to put on stage.
HOST WRTR Lud: The first 20-minute presentation went extremely well.
Pjmckenny: Or it's so autobiographical you should pay a shrink.
HOST WRTR Herone: yup
HOST WRTR Lud: Then we did a full staged reading and it wasn't well
received.
HOST WRTR Herone: We wouldn't NEED to pay a shrink -- the shrink could come,
watch, and be
HOST WRTR Herone: embarrassed!
Pjmckenny: Yeah.
HOST WRTR Lud: Although it couldn't have been that bad, because next thing I
know
HOST WRTR Lud: the director Susan Schulman was getting her first full
HOST WRTR Herone: It was the better part of valor to fold that puppy, altho
it felt absolutely terrible then.
HOST WRTR Lud: assignment at the theatre that presented it:
HOST WRTR Lud: the York Theatre.  Her assignment was COMPANY which led to
her doing
Pjmckenny: "Too close to it" is one thing to look for, though the flip side
of that is...
HOST WRTR Lud: SWEENEY TODD, which got her a major Broadway production.
HOST WRTR Herone: wow, that's some provenance, Lud
Pjmckenny: ...that's what you're passionate about.
HOST WRTR Herone: True, Patti --
HOST WRTR Herone: One warning sign is that something is easy to abandon
because you find out
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes, it's very hard.
HOST WRTR Herone: you're not in the least passionate about it.
Pjmckenny: Her, true.
HOST WRTR Lud: The trick is to be able to discern if it was the production
or the play that didn't work
HOST WRTR Lud: out.
HOST WRTR Herone: For example, you started it as a kind of fling, or
somebody said a topic was a good idea,
Pjmckenny: Lud, also true.
HOST WRTR Herone: or maybe it would have sustained a 10-minute piece but
certainly not a full length
HOST WRTR Herone: Lud -- that's really, really important!
HOST WRTR Lud: There's the history of THE HEIRESS, and that of THE
MATCHMAKER.
OnlineHost: patd97 has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's often hard to get a 2nd production of a play that had
a bad or
HOST WRTR Lud: Both of which failed in their initial productions, but were
HOST WRTR Herone: problematic 1st production.
HOST WRTR Lud: revamped into solid hits.
HOST WRTR Herone: and if the 1st production was traumatic enough, you feel
too burned to follow up
HOST WRTR Herone: the way you should
HOST WRTR Lud: Another famous case is Jules Ffeifer's LITTLE MURDERS.
Librettist01: Sounds like what you're saying is to never abandon anything
you feel positive about.
HOST WRTR Lud: Also, there can be an unfair critical reaction.  Take as
example, the original Broadway
HOST WRTR Lud: production of Pinter's THE HOMECOMING.
HOST WRTR Lud: The Times and Telegram gave it tepic reviews.
HOST WRTR Herone: But I don't consider a play "abandoned" if it's been
produced --
HOST WRTR Lud: Miraculously a second wave of reviews was wildly enthusiastic
and it caught on after all.
Pjmckenny: Lib, at least get it to the reading stage, get some reaction.
HOST WRTR Herone: I think an abandoned play is one you don't finish, or
finish and don't send out
Librettist01: I would think evaluating a new work on its opening would be
difficult.
HOST WRTR Lud: True, although you might say the show was never fully evolved
and thus aborted.
Pjmckenny: Lib, that's why theatre critics make the big bucks:  right,
Linda?
HOST WRTR Herone: something that doesn't make it through its first
production is sort of aborted
Librettist01: It's very hard to get a reading for a musical, unless you
already have a track record
HOST WRTR Herone: because going thru a production does temper it and change
it
Librettist01: writing musicals.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL, Pj!
HOST WRTR Herone: No premiere comes out with a script the same exact way it
went in -- or at least not most.
Librettist01: I have a problem trying to figure out just what a theatre
critic really contributes.
HOST WRTR Lud: It's even harder to get the show going if it's been produced
in a regional theatre--BADLY.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's like a recipe you write but never make or eat.
Pjmckenny: Lud, yeah.
HOST WRTR Lud: Which is the problem with Goodspeed.
Pjmckenny: Her, good analogy.
HOST WRTR Herone: and Lib, it IS hard to evaluate a show in its premiere
Librettist01: I believe it is.
HOST WRTR Lud: I've got the whole cook book, Herone.
HOST WRTR Herone: Using the recipe analogy, you're never sure whether you're
tasting fresh ingredients
HOST WRTR Herone: or whether the chef stirred it too long or not enough,
etc.
Pjmckenny: And you'll sign it for us, Lud?
HOST WRTR Herone: or spitefully added too much pepper
HOST WRTR Lud: Right, to all my fans who never got to try this.
HOST WRTR Herone: at the end
Pjmckenny: Her:  or if it's spicy like you like it but way too much so for
general consumption.
HOST WRTR Herone: exactly
Librettist01: Or causes general consumption.
HOST WRTR Herone: Theatre is just really HARD!
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL
HOST WRTR Herone: back to abandoning projects, though
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes, like the recipe for my matzo balls.
HOST WRTR Herone: My most recent play has been in a "stuck" zone.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's partly I'm busy with other things, but actually I'm
in a quandary re:
HOST WRTR Herone: where to take it, and I just don't have the "fire in the
belly"
HOST WRTR Lud: Because of lack on inspiration or lack of prospects?
HOST WRTR Herone: to work it out right now.
Pjmckenny: Her, that's a tough place to be.
HOST WRTR Herone: Not lack of prospects -- I can pretty much be assured at
this point that if I finished a
HOST WRTR Lud: Again, that's often what Neil Simon does.
HOST WRTR Herone: play, it could get done somewhere
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OnlineHost: HarisonDar has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: Not necessarily a high profile production, but it will get
done.
OnlineHost: A2Pantherz has entered the room.
Pjmckenny: Does that tell you let it alone and see if something strikes
later?
HOST WRTR Herone: Yes --
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HOST WRTR Lud: Though it's hardly one of his better plays, I believe he put
THE DINNER PARTY away for
HOST WRTR Lud: years, then went back to it.
HOST WRTR Herone: Or every couple of weeks I'll open the document and stare
at it, see if something happens.
HOST WRTR Lud: Also LAUGHTER ON THE WHATEVER FLOOR.
Pjmckenny: I never throw out abandoned stuff -- maybe I'll understand how to
write it later.
HOST WRTR Herone: There is some very good writing in it, so I don't want to
give it up.
OnlineHost: Bill Wonka has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: Nicky Silver once told me he rewrote so much that he has
whole plays that he wrote in a week
HOST WRTR Herone: and then abandoned
HOST WRTR Herone: that he mines for jokes and lines
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes, it's funny how abandoned material can show up later.
OnlineHost: Jackatbrun has entered the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: He's a rewriting fool.
Pjmckenny: Hey, Jack!
HOST WRTR Herone: hi Jack
HOST WRTR Lud: I wrote a song for the campus show at Northwestern that was
rejected.
HOST WRTR Herone: I recycle things, too.
Librettist01: I think it's difficult to understand the thought processes of
a Chekov or an Ibsen; how did
Jackatbrun: Pj, Herone, LUd, Lib, Bill!
Librettist01: they formulate the approach to what they wanted to write?
HOST WRTR Lud: Years later, I realized it would be perfect for a spot in
CHARLOTTE SWEET with some
HOST WRTR Herone: I remember hearing that "Don't Cry for Me, Argentina" was
a trunk song of Lloyd Webber's
HOST WRTR Lud: minor revisions.
HOST WRTR Lud: Ironically, the head of the committee at Northwestern
Pjmckenny: Lud:  you showed Joe Miller, didn't you? :)
OnlineHost: Jackatbrun has left the room.
HOST WRTR Lud: introduced it in CHARLOTTE SWEET, without realizing.
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes, I got to know Joe in his final years there.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL -- there's irony for you.
HOST WRTR Lud: What can you say about a man whose name is synonymous with a
joke book.
HOST WRTR Herone: As to abandoning projects, I do believe that even if you
put down a play
HOST WRTR Lud: Sorry about my spelling.
HOST WRTR Herone: some piece of it morphs its way into your next work.
Pjmckenny: Her, or into a work years later.
HOST WRTR Herone: One of my colleagues here stopped the production of one of
her plays.
Librettist01: Self-plagiarization, so to speak.
HOST WRTR Herone: then she moved on, wrote a different, much better play.
HOST WRTR Lud: Look, some party of your work can morph into a later work
even when BOTH are produced.
HOST WRTR Herone: When she had the opportunity to have a reading of the
HOST WRTR Lud: some part of your work, I mean.
HOST WRTR Herone: first one, she told me she had a dream that told her that
it was the same play.
HOST WRTR Herone: Only she'd worked out the theme much better in the new
one.
HOST WRTR Herone: So she's kind of put the other play away, and doesn't feel
like working on it.
Librettist01: So it was really the same play; two different drafts, so to
speak.
HOST WRTR Lud: Fascinating.
HOST WRTR Herone: no doubt, Lud
HOST WRTR Herone: different characters, different plots -- but really very
much the same play at its
HOST WRTR Herone: inside
HOST WRTR Lud: It's like Peter Schaefer, who does variations on the same
theme.
Librettist01: You look at some great playwrights, like August Wilson, or
Wendy Wasserstein; there
Librettist01: is a thread that runs thru all their work.
HOST WRTR Lud: Though I much preferred the passions of AMADEUS to EQUUS.
HOST WRTR Herone: Well, many of us keep doing the same theme(s) over and
over -- they just
HOST WRTR Herone: wear different costumes.
Pjmckenny: Her, yes.
OnlineHost: Bill Wonka has left the room.
HOST WRTR Lud: Or the same character.  There's always a schizophrenic in my
shows.
HOST WRTR Herone: So because of that I don't mourn my "lost" plays --
HOST WRTR Lud: I should name the who series CALL HER MOM.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOLOL
Librettist01: O'Neill is a good example of someone who can move on from
failed writings.
Librettist01: His early plays are really unequivocally terrible!
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes, aren't they excrutiating.
HOST WRTR Herone: A director of mine pointed out that I had all these M
names for my leads --
Librettist01: He rightly put in safeguards so they would never be published,
but they got
HOST WRTR Herone: Marla, Myra, Mara, Maya -- eee!
HOST WRTR Lud: But MORE STATELY MANSIONS, party of a cycle, has some of his
worst writing.
Librettist01: published anyway...
Librettist01: I'd look out for him in the next world, if I were the
publisher..
HOST WRTR Herone: that's when you pine for the shredder
HOST WRTR Lud: Tennessee Williams put shows away.
Pjmckenny: Lud, and wouldn't we love to know when and why.
HOST WRTR Herone: If you don't want a show to be done, you gotta get out the
scissors!
HOST WRTR Lud: But do you really think ECCENTRICITIES OF A NIGHTINGALE is
superior to SUMMER AND SMOKE?
Pjmckenny: I wouldn't know ECCENTRICITIES OF A NIGHTINGALE if it sat on me.
Librettist01: You think theatre groups do plays just to be mean to the
writer, Her?
HOST WRTR Herone: it would hover daintily over you, PJ
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL - no, Lib
Pjmckenny: Yeah, right, Her.
HOST WRTR Lud: Interestingly enough, his unproduced play, also with
NIGHTINGALES in the title, was quite
HOST WRTR Lud: compelling when Circle in the Square exhumed it.
HOST WRTR Herone: NOT ABOUT NIGHTINGALES
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes.
Pjmckenny: Lud:  killer version just done here too.
HOST WRTR Herone: 'twas just done here by a local college
Librettist01: But it is true that theatres are very good at injecting energy
into just about any kind of a
Librettist01: script.
HOST WRTR Herone: if they believe in it, yes, Lib
HOST WRTR Lud: I mean it's old-fashioned.  But still very powerful.
HOST WRTR Herone: Wow, we've been on this topic -- or close to it -- a long
time!
Pjmckenny: Lud:  got to me, big-time.
HOST WRTR Herone: We need to move on to SHAMELESS PLUGS.
Pjmckenny: Her, a good one:  obviously we cared.
HOST WRTR Lud: Then let's do this subject again some time.
HOST WRTR Herone: Yes -- we'll come back to some variation of this again.
Pjmckenny: Great.
HOST WRTR Lud: Okay, plugs.
HOST WRTR Herone: I have a plug for the day:
HOST WRTR Herone: HAG Theatre in Buffalo is going to do an evening of my one
acts in Feb.
Librettist01: I have no plugs, I'm busy abandoning...
HOST WRTR Herone: They're doing MARLA'S DEVOTION, A RUSTLE OF WINGS, and
several other shorts
HOST WRTR Herone: that they're deciding on.
HOST WRTR Lud: That's really exciting.  I loved it when my shows were in
repertory.
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL Lib
Pjmckenny: Yay -- congrats, Linda.
HOST WRTR Lud: It will be an interesting test to see how well the play off
each other.
HOST WRTR Herone: and my collaborator got an interesting call from the A.D.
of a local opera company
Librettist01: Congratulations...shows that writing one-acts can be a very
good thing.
HOST WRTR Lud: Maybe you're the new David Ives.
HOST WRTR Herone: offering to take a meeting about helping raise $$ for our
show
Pjmckenny: Linda, terrific.
HOST WRTR Lud: My friend Jason Buzas develope all his mini-plays long before
they were combined as
HOST WRTR Herone: They have access to grants for new operas but don't do any
-- we're doing a new "rock opera"
HOST WRTR Lud: ALL IN THE TIMING.
HOST WRTR Herone: and they want to see if they can do some kind of
educational add-on
HOST WRTR Herone: and milk their grant sources.
HOST WRTR Lud: Nothing especially new or exciting here.
HOST WRTR Herone: So!  Could be good, cross fingers re: next wk's meeting.
HOST WRTR Lud: I'm sorting out the mailers for my birthday bash.
HOST WRTR Herone: Fun, Lud.
Pjmckenny: Fingers crossed.
Pjmckenny: We got a call -- direct result of the cabaret, Linda --
Librettist01: It's very exciting to me to see anyone's musical getting some
momentum...
Pjmckenny: from Prince Music Theatre requestion full script and demo.
HOST WRTR Herone: YAY!!!!
Pjmckenny: (requesting)
Librettist01: There it is!
HOST WRTR Lud: That's outstanding.
HOST WRTR Herone: x'ing fingers for you, Patti --
HOST WRTR Herone: That cabaret you guys did was awesome -- it was worth it
just for that.
Pjmckenny: Thanks.  (So did the FROZEN RIVER guys, by the by.  The cabaret
rocked.
HOST WRTR Herone: Lud, you would have been very impressed at their
producing.
HOST WRTR Lud: Where was it?
HOST WRTR Herone: I'm not surprised -- that was the 2nd most interesting
show (of the Prince persuasion)
HOST WRTR Herone: It was their debut for Chicago Musical Theatre Works
Pjmckenny: Lud, The Royal George here in Chi.
HOST WRTR Herone: back in May?
HOST WRTR Lud: Fantastic.
HOST WRTR Herone: I saw it, it was wonderful.  Michael Kerker was agape with
how high the quality of material
HOST WRTR Herone: and singers was.
Pjmckenny: The Prince's dramaturg was there and she really loved it  That
she followed up is the best.
HOST WRTR Lud: I quit ASCAP because of Michael Kerker.
HOST WRTR Herone: Patti & Doug aren't just good writers, they're superb
producers.
Pjmckenny: LOL, Lud.
HOST WRTR Lud: But he's really good to musical theatre writers.
Pjmckenny: (Thank you, Linda.)
Pjmckenny: Lud, he is.
HOST WRTR Lud: I was very close to his predecessor, Bernice Cohen.
HOST WRTR Herone: Well, Patti, I toast your news.  That is very very
promising.
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes, bon chance.
HOST WRTR Herone: I remember Bernice.
Pjmckenny: Question:  has anyone else heard the O'Neill is bankrupt?
HOST WRTR Lud: Even to be considered is a great honor.
HOST WRTR Herone: Yikes!  No, I didn't hear that.
Pjmckenny: (Thanks, all.)
Librettist01: A lot of theatres are having problems, from what I've heard.
Pjmckenny: Lud, have you heard anything about that?
HOST WRTR Lud: Theatres have always had a hard time of it.  It's like
restaurants--
HOST WRTR Herone: but I did hear that the O'Neill Theatre stuff isn't the
same as it used to be.
HOST WRTR Lud: they have their day then it's someone else's turn.
HOST WRTR Herone: the writers don't mix -- it used to more like a working
weird summer camp
Librettist01: I suppose that's a good philosophical way to look at it.
HOST WRTR Lud: No, I haven't.  But I do know a lot of the major players
there have moved elsewhere.
HOST WRTR Herone: Now everybody goes in and out solo.
HOST WRTR Herone: I've heard that too -- new guy on the plays side
Pjmckenny: Lud:  wonder if they knew it was coming.
Librettist01: What is your show about, Pjm?
HOST WRTR Herone: One of the problems, if it's a problem, is that the
O'Neill hasn't uncovered a true hit
HOST WRTR Lud: Well, I do know that their choices of musicals are hardly new
ones.  One's been around for 2
HOST WRTR Lud: decades.
HOST WRTR Herone: in a while.
HOST WRTR Herone: it may be that the process got stale
Pjmckenny: That's true, Linda.
HOST WRTR Herone: I know one person who said his experience at the O'Neill
(play side) was so traumatic
HOST WRTR Lud: I don't think that's the problem.  There have been any number
of prestigious shows that
HOST WRTR Herone: and horrible that he gave up on plays for several years
HOST WRTR Lud: started there. 
Pjmckenny: Lib:  just jotted down to e-mail you a synosis.
HOST WRTR Herone: years ago, tho, Lud
HOST WRTR Lud: But not lately.
Pjmckenny: )synopsis.)
Librettist01: Terrific, Patti - very excited about your prospects!
HOST WRTR Herone: there's that "what have you done lately" syndrome
Pjmckenny: Jeez, I'm dyslexic tonight, sorry.
HOST WRTR Lud: That's true for anyone and anything in the Arts.
HOST WRTR Lud: Been at a Disney stockholders' meeting lately?
HOST WRTR Herone: LOL
Pjmckenny: Maltby, Shire and Ms. Norman were there with a musical this year.
HOST WRTR Lud: That's really encouraging new talent.
HOST WRTR Herone: I don't know the O'Neill music side as well.
Pjmckenny: Right.
HOST WRTR Lud: Marsha, Marsha, Marsha.
Pjmckenny: Right.
Librettist01: I'm having a big problem artistically; I'm not starving
anymore; it may be all over!
HOST WRTR Herone: Well, the O'Neill has moved into doing more established
people on the play side
HOST WRTR Lud: Maltby used to belong to my old shul, and he's not even
Jewish.
Pjmckenny: Linda:  we had a bad taste of them/brush with them.
HOST WRTR Herone: rather than picking plays, they're picking playwrights who
already had a rep
HOST WRTR Lud: The O'Neill played a major part in the history of CHARLOTTE
SWEET.
HOST WRTR Herone: What I heard about the play side made me never want to
send anything there.
HOST WRTR Herone: but that's me
HOST WRTR Herone: the guy who had such a bad time said they should have
called it
HOST WRTR Herone: "The O'Neill Old Cranky & Crochety Dramaturgs Festival"
HOST WRTR Lud: Oh my.  Look what time it is.  My coach is changing into a
pumpkin ice.
Pjmckenny: We're running out of development programs.  Schwartz isn't doing
"In the Works" this year.
HOST WRTR Herone: yikes!
HOST WRTR Lud: I've got to run.
HOST WRTR Herone: That's bad news for musicals.  Good thing I'm doing this
one at CPT!
Pjmckenny: Lud, thanks as always.
HOST WRTR Herone: good chat, Lud
HOST WRTR Lud: See you next week.  It's been grand.
HOST WRTR Herone: see you
Librettist01: Bye, Lud; thanks for all of your insights.
HOST WRTR Lud: Yes, actually there are some really good things happening
here.  I just don't want to jinx t
HOST WRTR Lud: them, speaking out too soon.
HOST WRTR Lud: See yall later.
OnlineHost: HOST WRTR Lud has left the room.
HOST WRTR Herone: I agree!
Librettist01: I sort of got that impression, Lud.
HOST WRTR Herone: and maybe, Patti, getting this piece up will give us some
face time
HOST WRTR Herone: and make folks interested in ours
Pjmckenny: Phone call -- Linda, will e-mail you tonight.  Thanks, all.
HOST WRTR Herone: nite
OnlineHost: Pjmckenny has left the room.
Librettist01: Sounds like in theatre you have to be hot...the hype rules, so
to speak...
HOST WRTR Herone: hot, or perception of hot, helps
Librettist01: Got here a little late to fully participate, but this was a
good subject for me right now.
HOST WRTR Herone: It's why, Lib, all my cranky little tiny productions have
helped me as much or more
HOST WRTR Herone: than one middling-sized prestigious one
HOST WRTR Herone: it gets the name around, until it becomes familiar
Librettist01: More and more theatre seems to be oriented toward the shorter
works.
HOST WRTR Herone: Lib, it's true-- there are more markets now for short
plays
Librettist01: I was somewhat misinformed when I started; I was told you had
to have at least
Librettist01: a 30 minute script.
HOST WRTR Herone: Definitely not true!  But that's changed --
HOST WRTR Herone: the 10-min play is a fairly recent form.
Librettist01: My first play was about an 8-minute play, till I revised it.
HOST WRTR Herone: If you have a short-short version that you really believe
in, send it out!
HOST WRTR Herone: I know people who have more than one version of a piece --
HOST WRTR Herone: and circulate them both.
Librettist01: Well, that's not a factor; the short version was really more
of a dramatization of
Librettist01: a short story I wrote.  The revised version was considerably
changed.
HOST WRTR Herone: ahh -- okay, different
HOST WRTR Herone: well, that's one reason to have 2 different versions (with
diff. titles of course)
Librettist01: I have a more recent version still.
HOST WRTR Herone: Lib -- I have to run.  But it's been good having you here.
Librettist01: Right; started out as the The Stuffed Cat, then became Black
Cat..
HOST WRTR Herone: I still want to hear what you mean about "you're not
hungry any more".
Librettist01: OK; congrats on your productions!
HOST WRTR Herone: but it'll have to wait, unfortunately -- later!
HOST WRTR Herone: and thanks --