Cabinet and Built-ins chat

 Subject:  CCB0205

Author:  ElseNew

Uploaded By:  AW JimC

Date:  3/7/1996

File:  CCB0205.LOG (16199 bytes) 

Estimated Download Time (59416 baud):  < 1 minute

Download Count:  16

<<A lively chat. We talked about how to use overlay hinges for inset ans corner cabinet applications, making octagons, flush vs. inset, and biscuits.>>

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A lively chat. We talked about how to use overlay hinges for inset ans corner cabinet applications, making octagons, flush vs. inset, and biscuits.

OnlineHost:

OnlineHost: *** You are in "American Woodworker". ***

OnlineHost:

ElseNew: Hello all

RPKENNEDY1: Pgh Pa.

Deke9273: hello

CEJZ: Hi Else

ElseNew: What's doing?

Deke9273: louisville

Deke9273: trying to warm up

CEJZ: Louisville?  do you know Louisville Lumber?

ElseNew: Tell me about it. It's below zero here

Deke9273: know of them

ElseNew: Must be global warming

CEJZ: Carl Booth?

Deke9273: louisville has a lot of lumber companies

Deke9273: sorry,

ElseNew: What you guys working on?

CEJZ: friends through the Architectural Woodwork Institute

Deke9273: if the globe is warming then why are my butt cheeks frozen

ElseNew: Your facing the wrong way

CEJZ: you guys do not know frozen till you come to MN

ElseNew: Too true

Deke9273: I'll pass on minn.

HLucas: Where is everyone from,  McBain MI

CEJZ: ELSE where from?

Deke9273: call me in june

CEJZ: north of St. Paul

ElseNew: I once had an editor went to Minn. Came back in one big hurry

ElseNew: Sherman Ct

CEJZ: we are hearty!

Deke9273: what do you do ELSE

VLK2620: hi from ky.

Deke9273: Hi carol

ElseNew: Hi all I'm your host tonight. Tonight is cabinet chat

CEJZ: what kind of cabs?  32mm?

ElseNew: I write books and articles on woodworking.  I am a cabinetmaker

Deke9273: under what pseudonym

ElseNew: Any ol kind CE

ElseNew: Paul Levine which is what mom calls me

ElseNew: Anyone here use a Shopsmith?

CEJZ: Robland

RPKENNEDY1: have you heard of David T Smith in OH.

CarolFritz: WHAT KIND OF HINGE CAN BE USED IN A 45 DEG. CORNER CAB, FLUSH

FIT?

CEJZ: any of you ever heard of the AWI

ElseNew: You can use the specially made hinges for that application

Deke9273: Grass has one built for that very purpose

ElseNew: or you can use a regular hinge and install a 45 degree block first

CarolFritz: FLUSH FIT? I'VE ONLY FOUND OVERLAY, HOW ABOUT BLUM?

ElseNew: All the system mfgs have the corner cabinet hinges available

ElseNew: Blum has more than one

Deke9273: Blum has several for that purpose

ElseNew: They offer it snap on, and regular

Deke9273: or decafinated

ElseNew: Whatcha building Carol

ElseNew: LOL Deke

CarolFritz: OK I'LL LOOK AGAIN, CAN YOU MAKE EM WORK FOR OTHER ODD ANGLES

TOO?

CHEFinBham: ElseNew  I am building kitchen cabinets using your book and

video.  I have a question.

ElseNew: If anyone out there is interested in Shopsmith tune in Wed night

ElseNew: Shoot chef

WOOD145702: Hello out thier, I need some help on how to figure out thr cuts

for an octagon

CHEFinBham: Why do you screw the backs on then remove them.  Why not glue and

nail immediately?

VLK2620: SAME time

ElseNew: If you spray finish you can avoid bounce back by removing the back

while finishing

CHEFinBham: yes

CHEFinBham: I have finished the backs before installing

Deke9273: divide 180 into any number of cuts for odd but equilangular shapes

ElseNew: That's fine

CHEFinBham: Then it would not be a problem

ElseNew: What are you building WOOD

CHEFinBham: Yes. How about installing drawer slides , does that become a

problenm with the backs on?

Deke9273: not unless they are really narrow

ElseNew: no Chef

Wlntcrk: It's a lot easier without the back.

ElseNew: I make the tops frames so I can reach down into the cab

CHEFinBham: In other words.  You would not have a problem with glueing and

power nailing the backs

ElseNew: Octagons have vertex angles of 45 degrees

CHEFinBham: if they are wood and prefinished

ElseNew: The peripheral angles are 67 1/2 dregrees

ElseNew: Set the saw for a 22 1/2 degree miter

Wlntcrk: Depends on what you are building.

ElseNew: That would be fine Chef

CHEFinBham: Thanks

CHEFinBham: Next question.  When I arrived tonight you were in a discussion

of angle corner cabinets.

CHEFinBham: Tell me again your suggestions on the door hanging

ElseNew: For full overlay use corner cab hinges

ElseNew: Each mfg has their own version Grass Mepla, Blum Hettich etc

CHEFinBham: Yes I am using full over lay.  That won't interfer with the door

adj

ElseNew: Otherwise use your regular hinge and set it on a wdge block to angle

it out 45 degrees

ElseNew: Yes it will

CHEFinBham: Suggestions

ElseNew: You must make the door smaller, or capture it with the cabinet sides

CarolFritz: ARE FLUSH FIT AND INSET THE SAME THING?

ElseNew: Draw the full size situation on paper

CHEFinBham: not understand what you mean by capture with cabinet sides?

ElseNew: Many people call inset flush fit.

ElseNew: I call inset inset and not flush fit because full overlay is also a

flush fit condition

ElseNew: If you have a fax # Email me and I'll send you a diag

LNapol: who is talking about what?

Kit Mag: (:

ElseNew: Good question LN

ElseNew: Who is Kit Mag

CarolFritz: OK, I'M LOOKING IN MY BLUM CATALOG AND I DON'T SEE INSET 45DEG,

ONLY OVERLAY

FredD17209: evening folk

ElseNew: What Kit Mag?

Deke9273: Sorry, I got sidelined, where were we?

Kit Mag: A very special person

ElseNew: Carol are you building inset or overlay?

CHEFinBham: Great. How IM my fax number?

CarolFritz: INSET

ElseNew: I'm sure Kit

LNapol: anyone into talking about finishing?

FredD17209: I will

CHEFinBham: Can I IM my fax number?

Kit Mag: anybody want to talk

ElseNew: Carol don't look at the hinges look at the base plates

ElseNew: There are special baseplates to make the hinge stand off and become

an inset hinge

Red n67138: hi all

FredD17209: hi

KWeikel560: WHAT'S THE BEST FINISH FOR NEW KITCHEN CABINETS MADE FROM OAK &

ASH?

FredD17209: lacquer

ElseNew: Chef Email your fax # to Elsenew

ElseNew: Hi Red and Fred

CarolFritz: SO, I USE THE SAME HINGE WITH THE  9MM PLATES?

KWeikel560: THANKS

CHEFinBham: ok

ElseNew: There are many KW

KWeikel560: WHAT OTHER OPTIONS? I WAS THINKING ABOUT WATER POLY.

ElseNew: Yes Carol, or use the same baseplate and mount it on a block that

will push the door out the

JHKAYLOR: hi guys

ElseNew: same distance, and then push it back into the case

Kit Mag: water poly is good but very soft

Deke9273: I have used Lacquer, Hydrocote, even shellac and wax

Red n67138: anything new going on with woodt

ElseNew: Hi JH

JHKAYLOR: whats tonights topic

ElseNew: Hello everyone I am your host Paul Levine

ElseNew: Tonight is cabinet chat

KWeikel560: WHAT ABOUT THE BLOTCHING PROBLEM WHEN STAINING PLYWOOD?

Kit Mag: perhaps i could be of some help

ElseNew: Again if anyone is interested in Shopsmith Wed night Carbide Saw is

cooking up something

Bevlafren: hi

ElseNew: Hi Bev

RFoster508: hello everyone

Bevlafren: how are you?

FredD17209: Hi RF

ElseNew: Supa

EDDK3: Else New what kind of cabinets are we chatting about?

Deke9273: Else, what is your take on using Biscuit joinery on doors that have

glass inserts?

KWeikel560: KITCHEN

OnlineHost:

OnlineHost: *** You are in "American Woodworker". ***

OnlineHost:

Red n67138: use wood conditioner

OnlineHost:

OnlineHost: *** You are in "American Woodworker". ***

OnlineHost:

FredD17209: did you get IM LN?

CHEFinBham: Else New Just sent fax # E-mail.. appreciate andy help

Bevlafren: Can anyone tell me how to strip legs on a coffee table?

Kit Mag: Rutt   WoodMode

ElseNew: Deke I like biscuits but not for doors

Deke9273: what is your rationale

KWeikel560: ANY PROPER NAMES FOR THE WOODMODE OR CONDITIONER?

FredD17209: I use Jasco stripper and a cabinet scraper , then sand

ElseNew: Biscuits are not a sufficiently strong joint for doors

Red n67138: pocket cutter on face frame and stile and rail on doors

ElseNew: Recent articles notwithstanding

Bevlafren: thanks for the help have good night

ElseNew: night Bev

RFoster508: nite bev

JHKAYLOR: goodnight Bev

Deke9273: Did you see the article on relative strength of differing joinery

methods that ran about 3 y

Deke9273: yrs ago?

ElseNew: For glass doors with true lights the whole industry uses cope and

stick cutters

FredD17209: use biscuits on door stile and rail allthe the time noproblem

Red n67138: anyone do any moulding

CarolFritz: Else, I do all my carcase work with melamine and biscuits, how

come I don't see either in your book?

ElseNew: Bogus Deke

ElseNew: I'm too weak to pick up a sheet of melamine

Deke9273: I agree it wasnt very scientific

JHKAYLOR: dido

ElseNew: Love biscuits for carcases though

Red n67138: pocket cutter portacable

Deke9273: I have always used Bridal joints but I was considering bisc. for a

book case

RFoster508: i hardly use biscuits since bot a kreig jig

KWeikel560: i had great success with pocket holes.

ElseNew: Not for doors Deke

ElseNew: Bridle joint is fine for doors

Deke9273: hope so, I've built about 500 cabinet doors with them

Red n67138: use pockets on faces frame and to mount face frame to carcases

JHKAYLOR: I was thinking about buying a biscuit-joiner for my cabinet

installations and wanted you to recomend

Deke9273: I use a double blade system to cut them super accurate

JBuzard: Howdo you cut cross grain dados in long stock?  With a dado on table

saw or router?

ElseNew: I really believe in the tongue and goove joint for cases Carol.

There are many good joints

CHEFinBham: Else me again.  In a kitchen remodeling I am going from vinyl to

hardwood floors.  more

ElseNew: The book gave me a chance to push my favorite

CHEFinBham: do I put the cabinets in first or the floors?

JHKAYLOR: anybody

FredD17209: router JB

Red n67138: jhk hi

JHKAYLOR: hi

Deke9273: router table and sliding jig mounted vertically

ElseNew: You can put the floor in first or the cabs in and the floor after

JBuzard: Thanks Fred, I tried my new dad0 blade and really screwed it up.

ElseNew: I prefer to put the floor in and finish the whole space and then

install the cabs

Red n67138: what kind of work do you do

Deke9273: I agree Else, floors first makes a cleaner fit for me

JHKAYLOR: red what kind of biscuit-joiner would you recommend, i like the

Freud

FredD17209: CHEF if you put the floor in firs you dont have to trim plus the

foolr installation is far b

CHEFinBham: ok The only disadvantage I guess to that is the extra cost of

flooring, right?

FredD17209: better

ElseNew: Yup

Red n67138: i use porter cable

JHKAYLOR: Red, furniture building

ElseNew: JHK I have a Lamello top I like it

FredD17209: no, use plywood same thickness as flooring under cabinet area

ElseNew: Buz use a router

JHKAYLOR: what the price on one of those Elsenew

ElseNew: That's good too Fred

Red n67138: design moulding and build furniture and grind moulding blades

ElseNew: Not sure JHK. It's been a long time

ElseNew: There are cheaper

Hhundley: good advice to Chef Fred

JHKAYLOR: Red, what kind of porter cable

JHKAYLOR: thanks Elsenew

FredD17209: you can't nail flooring close to installed cabinet without

scarring cab.

Red n67138: 210 pocket cutter

Deke9273: the lamello's are built like Powermatics, Buy one and die with it

in 50 yrs

CHEFinBham: Thanks to all that gave the advice.  So the floors go in first.

JHKAYLOR: Thanks Red

ElseNew: Carol why don't you use a ball tip hinge?

FredD17209: yes you'll suffer a lot less

JHKAYLOR: where can you get those Lamellos from

CHEFinBham: Any suggestions for source on a lazy susan for the lower corner

cabinets.  GOOD QUALITY

Deke9273: ELSE, have you seen the hinges coming out of India? great quality

CarolFritz: I like those euro hinges an awful lot

ElseNew: CHEF look in THE COMPLETE HAFELE

ElseNew: No Deke what source?

CHEFinBham: Where can I find THE COMPLETE HAFELE??

MadOvHeart: evening all

ElseNew: So do I Carol but for inset I use a regular leaf hinge with a ball

tip

ElseNew: Hi Mad

JHKAYLOR: hi Mad

FredD17209: get a 12" metal lazy susan at hareware and make your own

Deke9273: Mail order, I think it was WoodCraft. I got 100 pairs, they were

terrific

ElseNew: Hafele has an 800 number

ElseNew: Also you can get Hafele through Outwater Hardware in NJ

Deke9273: I think Tool Crib also carries Lamello's

FredD17209: hi mad

CHEFinBham: Don't happen to have a # for that do you?

JHKAYLOR: thanks Deke

ElseNew: E me

Red n67138: anyone from alabamaon here

CarolFritz: I'll try that, I build almost all insit and corner cabs have been

a problem, don't like the blocks

ElseNew: You from Russell county

CHEFinBham: yes Red

Deke9273: no charge...happy to help

ElseNew: Neither do ICF

Red n67138: what do you do chef

CHEFinBham: I am retired

MadOvHeart: after today,,i'm wishin i was retired<grin>

JHKAYLOR: anybody here from Houston

Red n67138: wood work for fun

AD4RF: Hello!

MadOvHeart: hiya AD

FredD17209: hi AD

JHKAYLOR: hi ad

Deke9273: I wish I was retired, It'd be warmer

TIMMEL95: hello everyone

WOOD145702: Can any body tell me a fast way to figure out the cut lenght on

an octagon 58"L x 24"W

ElseNew: Hello AD

CHEFinBham: yes, and to keep peace with my wife

AD4RF: Hello, mind if I join?

JHKAYLOR: hi timmel

FredD17209: 70 here today

JHKAYLOR: no come on

ElseNew: Jump in Ad

AD4RF: You folks got their fast.

Red n67138: same here but also for living

ObjimW: jUST EXPLORING

ElseNew: That's fine Ob

CHEFinBham: Red where from

MadOvHeart: Wood? what measurements are those?

JHKAYLOR: night fellow sawdust buddies

Red n67138: moulton ala

FredD17209: download a program called miter from aol WOOD tells you

everything you need to know

CHEFinBham: That near Talladega?

ElseNew: Carol they have new no mortise hinges try Cliffside Industries

JHKAYLOR: goodnight

AD4RF: Whats your best wood finish for Pine?

MadOvHeart: paint

MadOvHeart: ehehehhe

Deke9273: Wood, Its like making counter tops, always use the back measurment

ElseNew: Night JH

MadOvHeart: <laughter subsiding> sorry,,couldn't resist, AD

Red n67138: near decature

AD4RF: Mad  Thats OK!

CHEFinBham: ok used to live in Hsv

WOOD145702: Thanks, AOL wood  ?

Deke9273: Turp/Linseed and beeswax are nice on pine

Markwodwrk: howdy

AD4RF: What's is Wood Email Address, anybody?

FredD17209: type filesearch at keyword then miter

CHEFinBham: Well, good night Else and all thanks a lot

RFoster508: have used a lot of minwax on pine

ElseNew: Hi Mark

Dulcmrdav: hi mark

ElseNew: N?ight Chef

Red n67138: red do you build a lots

FredD17209: hi Mark

AD4RF: Thanks Fred

Deke9273: Else, Ive seen your stuff, its been a pleasure to meet you , gotta

go.  Be well all

WOOD145702: Thanks all I am now signing off.

ElseNew: Nice to chat with you Deke

ElseNew: Night Wood

Travelmax: anyone have experience will Leigh dovetail jig?

ElseNew: No Travel

Markwodwrk: no

AD4RF: Who Builds What?

KWeikel560: love the join tech.

Red n67138: hi end pieces

MadOvHeart: travel,,i've used it,,,it's an amazing jig,,major set up, though

CarolFritz: thanks for the advise Else, this has been a puzzle, how do I find

Cliffside?

Bassm35: Hello everyone.

Red n67138: hi

ElseNew: E me and I'll send you the #

TIMMEL95: hi

Markwodwrk: hi

FredD17209: kitchens ,fancey wood interiors, one off furniture

AD4RF: fred what type of wood

FredD17209: hi Bass

ElseNew: Carol do you get Wood Mag?

Bassm35: I am looking for some information on an old power handtool

Red n67138: who dont

Red n67138: what type

Markwodwrk: what kind of tool

FredD17209: ash and  oak , some cherry , prefer ash

Bassm35: It was found in a basement in Boston.

AD4RF: good night all

CarolFritz: no Fine  WW and HB

ElseNew: They publish a Red Book once a year with all mfgs

ElseNew: Wood is a freebee to the industry

FredD17209: nite AD

MadOvHeart: paul? isn't that Wood and Wood products?

Markwodwrk: nite ad

ElseNew: If you Email me remind me and I'llsend there address too

Bassm35: it is a power compas plane with no name and no motor

ElseNew: Just ask them and they send you magazine

ElseNew: Yes Mad

Bassm35: It has some movements in brass

KWeikel560: thanks all ...NITOL

ElseNew: Nite KW

FredD17209: bye

Bassm35: it only says paten pending and the number 12 on the side.

Bassm35: Anybody ever see anything like this??

Red n67138: nothing here

ElseNew: Well goodnight all nice chatting with you. See you all next Monday

for Cabinet Chat