Writing Basics Chat-Harlan Coben
Writing Basics Chat-Harlan Coben
4/26/2000
Award winning mystery writer Harlan Coben is the guest speaker.
Mystery writing is the topic
LMBRUN5: Welcome to Writing Basics
LMBRUN5: Tonight our topic is mystery writing and we have a very special
guest.
LMBRUN5: Harlan Coben has been writing mysteries and winning awards for
long time.
LMBRUN5: For those of you who did not get the memo
LMBRUN5: Harlan has two novels out currently
LMBRUN5: THE FINAL DETAIL and ONE FALSE MOVE
LMBRUN5: Since his critically-acclaimed Myron Bolitar series debuted in
1995,
LMBRUN5: he has won the Mystery Writers of America's Edgar Allan Poe Award,
LMBRUN5: was nominated for another Edgar, won the Anthony Award at the World
Mystery Conference,
Bolitar: ... and a bunch of other stuff... onward!
LMBRUN5: lol you're right Harlan
Bolitar: <--- playing the modest card.
LMBRUN5: my fingers are getting worn out
LMBRUN5: and there was still a whole lot to go!!!!
LMBRUN5: How about if you tell us a little about getting started in mystery
writing. How did you get
LMBRUN5: your start?
Bolitar: I read Publishers Weekly. The people section.
FALISHAK: ?
Bolitar: One day, I saw a familiar face.
Bolitar: Turned out this new editor at a house was
Bolitar: an R.A. at my college. No, I didn't really know
Bolitar: her, but hey, I figured it was a connection.
Bolitar: I sent her the ms.
Bolitar: She published it with a small publishing house.
Bolitar: It quickly dropped into oblivion and no one
Bolitar: ever heard of the book.
Bolitar: However, I got an agent
Bolitar: and then I started writing the Myron
Bolitar: Bolitar series several years later. I lucked
Bolitar: into a paperback deal with Dell.
Bolitar: And the rest is semi-history.
Bolitar: GA
Jackatbrun: ?
LMBRUN5: Jack
Jackatbrun: Where did you get your sense of story, premise, plot line, et
al.? ga
MRSFRENCHY: ?
Spkld1: (Falisshak was first LM)
Bolitar: I work a lot on story and plot. Much more than, say, character.
Bolitar: Most of it is sitting around and asking What If?
Bolitar: That seems to work best for me. I try to come
Jackatbrun: LOL
Bolitar: up with a twist ending first. Then I try to think of a beginning.
Bolitar: That takes two or three months of sitting around. Then I start.
Bolitar: GA
FALISHAK: What is a mystery?
Bolitar: For real?
FALISHAK: yes
Bolitar: Don't know. I prefer the term "crime fiction."
Bolitar: It's basically
F1NAL ANSER: May I ask what some of your work is I am not familiar with u
and I just signed on.
Bolitar: telling a story in a certain framework.
Bolitar: Like a haiku or sonnata. There are rules and you can
Bolitar: break them and within those rules you can do whatever
Bolitar: the hey you want to. GA
FALISHAK: What makes a good mystery?
LMBRUN5: (F1NAL, we'll get you a copy of the Memo, just email me after the
session. Ok?
LMBRUN5: MrsFrenchy
MRSFRENCHY: Why mystery (crime fiction) in preference to some other genre?
GA
Bolitar: Same thing that make all stories or novels good, i guess.
Bolitar: MrsF, again I think that using the term "mystery" limits
Bolitar: us.
Bolitar: The problem is that
FALISHAK: and that is?
MRSFRENCHY: But why did you choose mystery over and above everything else?
Bolitar: mystery is Agatha Christie and Elmore Leonard
Bolitar: and James Lee Burke and John Grisham. None
LMBRUN5: (FALISHAK, you are up next but please wait)
Bolitar: of them have much in common.
Bolitar: I chose mystery because
Bolitar: a) I love the form.
Bolitar: b) It lets me do what I want. I can tell stories that involve
Bolitar: anything: racism, loss, friendship, love...
Bolitar: c) almost all lasting works are crime fiction of some sort.
Bolitar: Shakespeare, Dickens, the Russian depressing guys :)
Bolitar: GA
MRSFRENCHY: Thanks
LMBRUN5: Ok FALISHAK, your turn. ga
FALISHAK: I'm sorry, ya'll are to advanced for me perhaps I need to join a
small session.
LMBRUN5: Just hang in there Falishak
Bolitar: You're doing great, Fal.
LMBRUN5: Sit back and watch (read) for a bit and if you have
LMBRUN5: another question later, type ? to the screen.
LMBRUN5: We go from VERY basic to advanced
Spkld1: "The only stupid questions are the ones unasked."
LMBRUN5: so some will apply to you.
LMBRUN5: ok, anyone have another question for Harlan?
Jackatbrun: ?
LMBRUN5: Jack, ga
Bolitar: Boxers or briefs?
Jackatbrun: Harlan, what you're saying is that the story comes first, tho,
characters, et al, later.
LMBRUN5: rotflol
Bolitar: No, Jack, not really. Actually, in the case of a series,
Bolitar: the character is already there and must therefore come first.
Bolitar: What I mean is that I pay more attention to telling
Bolitar: the story and letting the character stuff come naturally.
Bolitar: I read too many books where the character has all
Bolitar: this wonderful angst but the story doesn't move.
Bolitar: In those cases, I think the author was so filled with
Bolitar: his own wonderment at his wonderful character creation
Bolitar: he forgot to tell us a story GA
Gu8Ridge23: ?
LMBRUN5: Gu, ga
Gu8Ridge23: Harlan -- do your characters take on a life of their own
within
Gu8Ridge23: your mind? That they sort of write the story for you?
Bolitar: Gu, yes and no.
Bolitar: There are moments when that seems to be happening.
Bolitar: There are moments when the characters take control.
Bolitar: I mentioned story before. Most of that has to come
Jackatbrun: ?
Bolitar: directly from the characters. If you force your characters
Bolitar: to do something that is convenient for the sake of plot,
OnlineHost: Lghnsml has entered the room.
Bolitar: the reader will know it in an instant and tune you out.
Bolitar: On the other hand, the writer is the boss.
Bolitar: But the best moments is when the boss lets his employees
Bolitar: take over the shop.
Bolitar: It's kinda like being a writer. The more free will,
Gu8Ridge23: :)
Bolitar: the more interesting the world. G A
Bolitar: Yikes, not writer. I meant God!!
Bolitar: Like being a god!
Bolitar: GA
LMBRUN5: (Harlan, it is true if a character acts "out of character" it does
turn the reader off)
Bolitar: (Interesting Freudian slip though)
LMBRUN5: Jack, you're next.
Jackatbrun: A recent critique said that if a character can't SURPRISE his
audience, he's not well
LMBRUN5: lol Harlan
Jackatbrun: written. I suspect that mean'swithin character, however. ga
Agree?
Bolitar: A character has to be real, first and foremost.
Bolitar: Do real people always surprise us? No. But most of the
Jackatbrun: And predictable then?
Bolitar: time, I think they do.
Bolitar: GA
LMBRUN5: ?
Bolitar: I heard a great line the other day that I think might put
Bolitar: it better: I only write about characters at the end of their rope.
Bolitar: When people are at the end of their rope, they will definitely
surprise you.
Bolitar: GA
Jackatbrun: <Constant, ready-made tension.>
LMBRUN5: I'd like to stay with this for another minute
Spkld1: (I like that Bolitar!)
Bolitar: (Me too, Sp. Good advice)
LMBRUN5: because I want to be sure everyone understands the difference
LMBRUN5: between characters who "surprise" and acting out of character
LMBRUN5: Would you try to explain the difference, Harlan?
FALISHAK: ?
Bolitar: Me?
Bolitar: Seriously, it's a hard
Bolitar: line to straddle. People are not always consistent.
Bolitar: Frequently they are not. But they are REAL. That's the key.
Bolitar: I have a character in the series who is both a hero and
Bolitar: well, psychotic.
Bolitar: This makes for an interesting dichotomy. You like him yet
Bolitar: you realize he does wrong. Plus you never know exactly
Bolitar: what he'll do. That's part of his character. You have to be
careful.
Bolitar: You have to make sure that what your character is doing feels real.
Bolitar: GA
Jackatbrun: ?
LMBRUN5: Falishak, go ahead
FALISHAK: Would surprising be acting out of character , and acting out of
character be surpring?
LMBRUN5: !
Spkld1: (See your Instant Messages Danag444)
Bolitar: Let me give a quick example. My hero Myron has a girlfriend in
Bolitar: many of the books.
Bolitar: Most of the other characters -- characters we love -- don't like
her.
Bolitar: I often get letters saying, "Why doesn't Myron dump that
Bolitar: awful woman?"
Bolitar: But don't we know people like that in real life?
Bolitar: Is everyone we know hooked up to the perfect spouse?
Bolitar: Of course not.
Bolitar: So it's not out of character for him to be with her.
Bolitar: See the difference?
Bolitar: And did I answer your question?
Bolitar: GA
FALISHAK: ?
Bolitar: (rubbing sore fingers)
LMBRUN5: Falishak, continue
LMBRUN5: lol Harlan
LMBRUN5: (Jack, you're next)
Jackatbrun: Hero/psychotic is "Lethal Weapon," no? Do you find it dif to be
creative when all the forms
Jackatbrun: have become jaded, recognizable? It is a challenge. ga
Bolitar: A great challenge.
Bolitar: It's why I think that we are living in the golden age of
Bolitar: crime fiction.
Bolitar: We've never been better.
Bolitar: Because people won't settle for the cliches any longer.
Jackatbrun: All heroes have to have "a limp."
Bolitar: Take Hercule Poirot for example.
FALISHAK: Why would actilng out of character be surpring if the characer is
surpring. Would this not
Bolitar: He never aged. Never had a personal life. Nothing.
Bolitar: That wouldn't play today.
Bolitar: Myron ages.
FALISHAK: keep the story going.
Bolitar: What happens to him in one book ripples through the others.
Bolitar: The stakes are higher.
Bolitar: I think that's a good thing. GA
LMBRUN5: (Hang on a sec Falishak and I'll try to explain what I was asking)
Bolitar: Sometimes, the best way to practice is to stand
LMBRUN5: If you have a character (and jump right in Harlan.....I don't hav
upmteen books out)
Bolitar: the old cliches on their head. Try it sometimes.
Bolitar: It's a great exercise.
Bolitar: I have a scene when Myron is walking into a no-tell Motel, you
Bolitar: know the kinda place with a sign that reads
Bolitar: NOW FEATURING TOWELS!!!
Bolitar: So we expect the guy behind the desk to
Jackatbrun: LOL
Bolitar: be burping beer and wearing a ripped tee shirt and unshaven.
Bolitar: But suppose when Myron walks in, there is a mahogany desk
Bolitar: and some guy in tails who takes his job seriously?
Bolitar: Suppose he says stuff like, "We want to earn
Bolitar: your INdiscretionary dollar."
Bolitar: "If you're going to commit adultery, we want you
Bolitar: to do it in style and comfort."
Bolitar: You take an ordinary scene and you find a whole
Bolitar: new angle. GA
Jackatbrun: ...with towels. lol
LMBRUN5: hahahahaha
Spkld1: :-)
LMBRUN5: What I was refering to, Harlan
Bolitar: Try it sometime. Guarantee it'll get your mind a-whirring.
Bolitar: GA
LMBRUN5: if you have a character who is shy, never bold
MRSFRENCHY: Makes me want to begin writing mysteries
LMBRUN5: they might poison someone or murder someone but they wouldn't be
likely
Bolitar: (You go, Frenchy!)
LMBRUN5: to tackle a gunman on the street.
LMBRUN5: yes? no? Or does that work perfectly for mysteries???
Jackatbrun: <Mrs, you can stand cliches on their heads in any writing. Do
it.>
Bolitar: LM, you're probably right. Except for one thing.
Bolitar: Here are the rules of writing:
Bolitar: 1) There are no rules.
Bolitar: 2) You can only break the rules once you know the rules.
LMBRUN5: lololol I love it!
Bolitar: (Think about that one)
Bolitar: 3) Writers are a bit like we of the hebrew faith...
Bolitar: ... if you ask ten of us how to do it, you'll get eleven different
answers.
Bolitar: GA
Jackatbrun: Only 11?
LMBRUN5: haha
Spkld1: (How true!)
MRSFRENCHY: Surely more than 11
Jackatbrun: They can't be writers (or Gods) then, Harlan. <g>
Bolitar: You all understand :)
DAvallon: oy vey
LMBRUN5: lol
LMBRUN5: Harlan, are you involved in producing a screenplay now?
Bolitar: I wrote a TV pilot recently.
Bolitar: It's based on one of the Myron novels. Twentieth Century
Bolitar: Fox hired me to do it.
Bolitar: It was fun writing a pilot except it spoke to me.
Bolitar: It kept saying, "This is your pilot speaking.
Bolitar: Thank you, I'm here all week....
LMBRUN5: lolol
Bolitar: GA
MRSFRENCHY: Buckle up!!!
Bolitar: <ducking>
LMBRUN5: Very nice on the pilot
LMBRUN5: When will it air?
LMBRUN5: (Pun city here)
Jackatbrun: ?
Bolitar: Oh, I doubt it'll ever get made. 99% of the stuff never gets made.
Bolitar: Still you get paid.
Bolitar: GA
LMBRUN5: Jack, ga
Jackatbrun: Do you still have to take out the garbage? ga
LMBRUN5: oh Jack!!! lol
DAvallon: John Irving just one an oscar adapting his own novel
LMBRUN5: trying to get out of that little job?
Bolitar: Yes. But my daughter turned six yesterday. So no.
FALISHAK: ?
Jackatbrun: I asked that question of John Gilstrap, too. Yes wa sthe answer.
LMBRUN5: FALISHAK, ga
Bolitar: I know Gilstrap. He never took out the garbage in his life.
FALISHAK: What is ga?
Bolitar: Go Ahead.
Jackatbrun: LOL, ROFLMAO
LMBRUN5: go ahead Fal
LMBRUN5: hahahaha on Gilstrap
FALISHAK: Are we still discussing the surprise character?
Bolitar: We're discussing whatever you want: characters, plot, Bosnia...
LMBRUN5: If you like, Falishak. You can ask anythig you want
Bolitar: ... facial tics, mole hair, whatever....
LMBRUN5: including boxers or brief. No guaranteed answers though.
DAvallon: excuse me almost midnight lyla tov
Bolitar: Mas tarde, DA.
FALISHAK: What is wrong with letting you characters take on a life of their
own?
Bolitar: Nothing.
MRSFRENCHY: I'm laughing so hard my asthma's kicked up.
Bolitar: I'm just not sure, Fal, that that realllyhappens. I mean, it
sounds
Jackatbrun: !
Bolitar: good. Don't get me wrong. But in the end, your job as a writer
Bolitar: is to sorta stay out of the way and tell the story. But I agree
with you.
Bolitar: It's just semantics. G A
FALISHAK: I'm sorry, I thought you said we needed to control them, why?
LMBRUN5: (MRSFRENCHY, remember if you put an empty inhaler in the garbage,
no one is ever so success
Bolitar: Not control them, no. Make them real, yes.
LMBRUN5: ful that they get out of taking the garbage out)
LMBRUN5: FALSIHAK, is that clearer or do you need a little more discussion
LMBRUN5: on the role of character?
FALISHAK: Such as killing one off if it gets to bossy.
Bolitar: Fal, cardinal rule: do whatever makes you write. Always.
Spkld1: LM: Jack had a comment to this...
Bolitar: You go, Jack.
Jackatbrun: That characters take on a life of their own, write the story...
is a romantic thought, but
LMBRUN5: oops, thanks Spkld1.
LMBRUN5: (Sorry I missed that !, Jack)
Jackatbrun: impractical, I believe. They can have fun, win, lose, love, die,
but if they don't
Jackatbrun: serve the story, the writer has lost control.
Jackatbrun: I'm wondering, too, about "real" characters... credible, yes,
but if
Spkld1: ! Yeah, that's no garantee they'll go in the direction you want them
to.
Bolitar: It's another fine line. The characters sereve the story, but
Bolitar: they cannot be a slave to it.
Jackatbrun: too real they become boring, their dialog wasteful and trivial.
Jackatbrun: There the writer takes control to drive the story to a
fulfilling conclusion, no? ga
Bolitar: Agreed, Jack. By real I mean credible.
FALISHAK: If you give the character the life to go on will he or she or it
not continue with the story
Bolitar: Every piece of fiction is simply this:
Bolitar: Your hero travels down the road of life. You throw
Bolitar: roadblocks and land mines in his way. He goes through
Bolitar: them. The end.
Bolitar: God, that was deep.
Jackatbrun: ...and is changed, thereby.
Spkld1: heh-heh-heh,
Bolitar: Yes, Jack, that's normally true. But I wonder how much
Jackatbrun: <Putting on boots.>
Bolitar: we really change so I left it out.
MRSFRENCHY: But what does he/she do after the end?
Bolitar: In a series, MrsF, you get to find out :)
SteeIBtrfl: you get to be a voyeur, peek into how another human solves
something
Jackatbrun: Do you write the change or no?
Bolitar: I crippled poor Myron at the end of ONE FALSE MOVE. I got
Bolitar: to bring him back in THE FINAL DETAIL.
FALISHAK: ?
LMBRUN5: (We are down to 5 minutes folks. Time for one last question.)
LMBRUN5: Falishak
FALISHAK: But to write the NOVEL do you need to continue with the character
Bolitar: Everyone does it differently. Me, I know my ending.
Bolitar: I know my beginning.
Bolitar: I go back and it's like traveling from New Jersey to California.
Bolitar: I may take Route 80 or
Bolitar: I may go via the Panama Canal.
Bolitar: But I'll end up in California.
Bolitar: EL Doctorow once said that it's like driving at night
Bolitar: with your headlights on.
Bolitar: You can only see a little way ahead of you but you
Bolitar: can make the whole trip that way.
Bolitar: I like that.
Jackatbrun: <The journey is all.>
LMBRUN5: Like a road map? You just have to know the route and the detours.
Bolitar: The car (character) is key. But so is your map (plot).
FALISHAK: Thank you so much Mr. Coben, I really learned a lot, when will you
be back?
Spkld1: ! Yeah, I do much the same. Know where I started and where I'm
going, then fill in the middl
Bolitar: Let's all join hands now and sing Kumbaya.....
Bolitar: By the way, more info at www.harlancoben.com.
Bolitar: Or Amazon.com.
SteeIBtrfl: I'm happy if I figure out where I am starting
LMBRUN5: ROTFLOL Harlan, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
Jackatbrun: Falishak, killing off your protagonist is a sure way to end a
story or novel. <g>
Bolitar: Or wherever fine books are sold.
Bolitar: Or even lousy books.
MRSFRENCHY: Enjoyed, asthma attack and all.
Spkld1: Thanks Harlan! It was a great chat!
Bolitar: Thank you all.
Spkld1: ::: Applause! ::: ::: Applause! :::
Jackatbrun: Thanks, Harlan. I remember the days in '95 with you Marigo and
the rest in the Cafe. Good
Jackatbrun: times.
Bolitar: Oh and if you want the FREE Coben newsletter, just
Bolitar: send me an email.
Spkld1: To join our weekly mailing list send an email to SPKLD1@AOL.COM,
including the words
Spkld1: JOIN MEMO in the subject line.
Bolitar: Free and worth every penny.
4/26/2000
Award winning mystery writer Harlan Coben is the guest speaker.
Mystery writing is the topic
LMBRUN5: Welcome to Writing Basics
LMBRUN5: Tonight our topic is mystery writing and we have a very special
guest.
LMBRUN5: Harlan Coben has been writing mysteries and winning awards for
long time.
LMBRUN5: For those of you who did not get the memo
LMBRUN5: Harlan has two novels out currently
LMBRUN5: THE FINAL DETAIL and ONE FALSE MOVE
LMBRUN5: Since his critically-acclaimed Myron Bolitar series debuted in
1995,
LMBRUN5: he has won the Mystery Writers of America's Edgar Allan Poe Award,
LMBRUN5: was nominated for another Edgar, won the Anthony Award at the World
Mystery Conference,
Bolitar: ... and a bunch of other stuff... onward!
LMBRUN5: lol you're right Harlan
Bolitar: <--- playing the modest card.
LMBRUN5: my fingers are getting worn out
LMBRUN5: and there was still a whole lot to go!!!!
LMBRUN5: How about if you tell us a little about getting started in mystery
writing. How did you get
LMBRUN5: your start?
Bolitar: I read Publishers Weekly. The people section.
FALISHAK: ?
Bolitar: One day, I saw a familiar face.
Bolitar: Turned out this new editor at a house was
Bolitar: an R.A. at my college. No, I didn't really know
Bolitar: her, but hey, I figured it was a connection.
Bolitar: I sent her the ms.
Bolitar: She published it with a small publishing house.
Bolitar: It quickly dropped into oblivion and no one
Bolitar: ever heard of the book.
Bolitar: However, I got an agent
Bolitar: and then I started writing the Myron
Bolitar: Bolitar series several years later. I lucked
Bolitar: into a paperback deal with Dell.
Bolitar: And the rest is semi-history.
Bolitar: GA
Jackatbrun: ?
LMBRUN5: Jack
Jackatbrun: Where did you get your sense of story, premise, plot line, et
al.? ga
MRSFRENCHY: ?
Spkld1: (Falisshak was first LM)
Bolitar: I work a lot on story and plot. Much more than, say, character.
Bolitar: Most of it is sitting around and asking What If?
Bolitar: That seems to work best for me. I try to come
Jackatbrun: LOL
Bolitar: up with a twist ending first. Then I try to think of a beginning.
Bolitar: That takes two or three months of sitting around. Then I start.
Bolitar: GA
FALISHAK: What is a mystery?
Bolitar: For real?
FALISHAK: yes
Bolitar: Don't know. I prefer the term "crime fiction."
Bolitar: It's basically
F1NAL ANSER: May I ask what some of your work is I am not familiar with u
and I just signed on.
Bolitar: telling a story in a certain framework.
Bolitar: Like a haiku or sonnata. There are rules and you can
Bolitar: break them and within those rules you can do whatever
Bolitar: the hey you want to. GA
FALISHAK: What makes a good mystery?
LMBRUN5: (F1NAL, we'll get you a copy of the Memo, just email me after the
session. Ok?
LMBRUN5: MrsFrenchy
MRSFRENCHY: Why mystery (crime fiction) in preference to some other genre?
GA
Bolitar: Same thing that make all stories or novels good, i guess.
Bolitar: MrsF, again I think that using the term "mystery" limits
Bolitar: us.
Bolitar: The problem is that
FALISHAK: and that is?
MRSFRENCHY: But why did you choose mystery over and above everything else?
Bolitar: mystery is Agatha Christie and Elmore Leonard
Bolitar: and James Lee Burke and John Grisham. None
LMBRUN5: (FALISHAK, you are up next but please wait)
Bolitar: of them have much in common.
Bolitar: I chose mystery because
Bolitar: a) I love the form.
Bolitar: b) It lets me do what I want. I can tell stories that involve
Bolitar: anything: racism, loss, friendship, love...
Bolitar: c) almost all lasting works are crime fiction of some sort.
Bolitar: Shakespeare, Dickens, the Russian depressing guys :)
Bolitar: GA
MRSFRENCHY: Thanks
LMBRUN5: Ok FALISHAK, your turn. ga
FALISHAK: I'm sorry, ya'll are to advanced for me perhaps I need to join a
small session.
LMBRUN5: Just hang in there Falishak
Bolitar: You're doing great, Fal.
LMBRUN5: Sit back and watch (read) for a bit and if you have
LMBRUN5: another question later, type ? to the screen.
LMBRUN5: We go from VERY basic to advanced
Spkld1: "The only stupid questions are the ones unasked."
LMBRUN5: so some will apply to you.
LMBRUN5: ok, anyone have another question for Harlan?
Jackatbrun: ?
LMBRUN5: Jack, ga
Bolitar: Boxers or briefs?
Jackatbrun: Harlan, what you're saying is that the story comes first, tho,
characters, et al, later.
LMBRUN5: rotflol
Bolitar: No, Jack, not really. Actually, in the case of a series,
Bolitar: the character is already there and must therefore come first.
Bolitar: What I mean is that I pay more attention to telling
Bolitar: the story and letting the character stuff come naturally.
Bolitar: I read too many books where the character has all
Bolitar: this wonderful angst but the story doesn't move.
Bolitar: In those cases, I think the author was so filled with
Bolitar: his own wonderment at his wonderful character creation
Bolitar: he forgot to tell us a story GA
Gu8Ridge23: ?
LMBRUN5: Gu, ga
Gu8Ridge23: Harlan -- do your characters take on a life of their own
within
Gu8Ridge23: your mind? That they sort of write the story for you?
Bolitar: Gu, yes and no.
Bolitar: There are moments when that seems to be happening.
Bolitar: There are moments when the characters take control.
Bolitar: I mentioned story before. Most of that has to come
Jackatbrun: ?
Bolitar: directly from the characters. If you force your characters
Bolitar: to do something that is convenient for the sake of plot,
OnlineHost: Lghnsml has entered the room.
Bolitar: the reader will know it in an instant and tune you out.
Bolitar: On the other hand, the writer is the boss.
Bolitar: But the best moments is when the boss lets his employees
Bolitar: take over the shop.
Bolitar: It's kinda like being a writer. The more free will,
Gu8Ridge23: :)
Bolitar: the more interesting the world. G A
Bolitar: Yikes, not writer. I meant God!!
Bolitar: Like being a god!
Bolitar: GA
LMBRUN5: (Harlan, it is true if a character acts "out of character" it does
turn the reader off)
Bolitar: (Interesting Freudian slip though)
LMBRUN5: Jack, you're next.
Jackatbrun: A recent critique said that if a character can't SURPRISE his
audience, he's not well
LMBRUN5: lol Harlan
Jackatbrun: written. I suspect that mean'swithin character, however. ga
Agree?
Bolitar: A character has to be real, first and foremost.
Bolitar: Do real people always surprise us? No. But most of the
Jackatbrun: And predictable then?
Bolitar: time, I think they do.
Bolitar: GA
LMBRUN5: ?
Bolitar: I heard a great line the other day that I think might put
Bolitar: it better: I only write about characters at the end of their rope.
Bolitar: When people are at the end of their rope, they will definitely
surprise you.
Bolitar: GA
Jackatbrun: <Constant, ready-made tension.>
LMBRUN5: I'd like to stay with this for another minute
Spkld1: (I like that Bolitar!)
Bolitar: (Me too, Sp. Good advice)
LMBRUN5: because I want to be sure everyone understands the difference
LMBRUN5: between characters who "surprise" and acting out of character
LMBRUN5: Would you try to explain the difference, Harlan?
FALISHAK: ?
Bolitar: Me?
Bolitar: Seriously, it's a hard
Bolitar: line to straddle. People are not always consistent.
Bolitar: Frequently they are not. But they are REAL. That's the key.
Bolitar: I have a character in the series who is both a hero and
Bolitar: well, psychotic.
Bolitar: This makes for an interesting dichotomy. You like him yet
Bolitar: you realize he does wrong. Plus you never know exactly
Bolitar: what he'll do. That's part of his character. You have to be
careful.
Bolitar: You have to make sure that what your character is doing feels real.
Bolitar: GA
Jackatbrun: ?
LMBRUN5: Falishak, go ahead
FALISHAK: Would surprising be acting out of character , and acting out of
character be surpring?
LMBRUN5: !
Spkld1: (See your Instant Messages Danag444)
Bolitar: Let me give a quick example. My hero Myron has a girlfriend in
Bolitar: many of the books.
Bolitar: Most of the other characters -- characters we love -- don't like
her.
Bolitar: I often get letters saying, "Why doesn't Myron dump that
Bolitar: awful woman?"
Bolitar: But don't we know people like that in real life?
Bolitar: Is everyone we know hooked up to the perfect spouse?
Bolitar: Of course not.
Bolitar: So it's not out of character for him to be with her.
Bolitar: See the difference?
Bolitar: And did I answer your question?
Bolitar: GA
FALISHAK: ?
Bolitar: (rubbing sore fingers)
LMBRUN5: Falishak, continue
LMBRUN5: lol Harlan
LMBRUN5: (Jack, you're next)
Jackatbrun: Hero/psychotic is "Lethal Weapon," no? Do you find it dif to be
creative when all the forms
Jackatbrun: have become jaded, recognizable? It is a challenge. ga
Bolitar: A great challenge.
Bolitar: It's why I think that we are living in the golden age of
Bolitar: crime fiction.
Bolitar: We've never been better.
Bolitar: Because people won't settle for the cliches any longer.
Jackatbrun: All heroes have to have "a limp."
Bolitar: Take Hercule Poirot for example.
FALISHAK: Why would actilng out of character be surpring if the characer is
surpring. Would this not
Bolitar: He never aged. Never had a personal life. Nothing.
Bolitar: That wouldn't play today.
Bolitar: Myron ages.
FALISHAK: keep the story going.
Bolitar: What happens to him in one book ripples through the others.
Bolitar: The stakes are higher.
Bolitar: I think that's a good thing. GA
LMBRUN5: (Hang on a sec Falishak and I'll try to explain what I was asking)
Bolitar: Sometimes, the best way to practice is to stand
LMBRUN5: If you have a character (and jump right in Harlan.....I don't hav
upmteen books out)
Bolitar: the old cliches on their head. Try it sometimes.
Bolitar: It's a great exercise.
Bolitar: I have a scene when Myron is walking into a no-tell Motel, you
Bolitar: know the kinda place with a sign that reads
Bolitar: NOW FEATURING TOWELS!!!
Bolitar: So we expect the guy behind the desk to
Jackatbrun: LOL
Bolitar: be burping beer and wearing a ripped tee shirt and unshaven.
Bolitar: But suppose when Myron walks in, there is a mahogany desk
Bolitar: and some guy in tails who takes his job seriously?
Bolitar: Suppose he says stuff like, "We want to earn
Bolitar: your INdiscretionary dollar."
Bolitar: "If you're going to commit adultery, we want you
Bolitar: to do it in style and comfort."
Bolitar: You take an ordinary scene and you find a whole
Bolitar: new angle. GA
Jackatbrun: ...with towels. lol
LMBRUN5: hahahahaha
Spkld1: :-)
LMBRUN5: What I was refering to, Harlan
Bolitar: Try it sometime. Guarantee it'll get your mind a-whirring.
Bolitar: GA
LMBRUN5: if you have a character who is shy, never bold
MRSFRENCHY: Makes me want to begin writing mysteries
LMBRUN5: they might poison someone or murder someone but they wouldn't be
likely
Bolitar: (You go, Frenchy!)
LMBRUN5: to tackle a gunman on the street.
LMBRUN5: yes? no? Or does that work perfectly for mysteries???
Jackatbrun: <Mrs, you can stand cliches on their heads in any writing. Do
it.>
Bolitar: LM, you're probably right. Except for one thing.
Bolitar: Here are the rules of writing:
Bolitar: 1) There are no rules.
Bolitar: 2) You can only break the rules once you know the rules.
LMBRUN5: lololol I love it!
Bolitar: (Think about that one)
Bolitar: 3) Writers are a bit like we of the hebrew faith...
Bolitar: ... if you ask ten of us how to do it, you'll get eleven different
answers.
Bolitar: GA
Jackatbrun: Only 11?
LMBRUN5: haha
Spkld1: (How true!)
MRSFRENCHY: Surely more than 11
Jackatbrun: They can't be writers (or Gods) then, Harlan. <g>
Bolitar: You all understand :)
DAvallon: oy vey
LMBRUN5: lol
LMBRUN5: Harlan, are you involved in producing a screenplay now?
Bolitar: I wrote a TV pilot recently.
Bolitar: It's based on one of the Myron novels. Twentieth Century
Bolitar: Fox hired me to do it.
Bolitar: It was fun writing a pilot except it spoke to me.
Bolitar: It kept saying, "This is your pilot speaking.
Bolitar: Thank you, I'm here all week....
LMBRUN5: lolol
Bolitar: GA
MRSFRENCHY: Buckle up!!!
Bolitar: <ducking>
LMBRUN5: Very nice on the pilot
LMBRUN5: When will it air?
LMBRUN5: (Pun city here)
Jackatbrun: ?
Bolitar: Oh, I doubt it'll ever get made. 99% of the stuff never gets made.
Bolitar: Still you get paid.
Bolitar: GA
LMBRUN5: Jack, ga
Jackatbrun: Do you still have to take out the garbage? ga
LMBRUN5: oh Jack!!! lol
DAvallon: John Irving just one an oscar adapting his own novel
LMBRUN5: trying to get out of that little job?
Bolitar: Yes. But my daughter turned six yesterday. So no.
FALISHAK: ?
Jackatbrun: I asked that question of John Gilstrap, too. Yes wa sthe answer.
LMBRUN5: FALISHAK, ga
Bolitar: I know Gilstrap. He never took out the garbage in his life.
FALISHAK: What is ga?
Bolitar: Go Ahead.
Jackatbrun: LOL, ROFLMAO
LMBRUN5: go ahead Fal
LMBRUN5: hahahaha on Gilstrap
FALISHAK: Are we still discussing the surprise character?
Bolitar: We're discussing whatever you want: characters, plot, Bosnia...
LMBRUN5: If you like, Falishak. You can ask anythig you want
Bolitar: ... facial tics, mole hair, whatever....
LMBRUN5: including boxers or brief. No guaranteed answers though.
DAvallon: excuse me almost midnight lyla tov
Bolitar: Mas tarde, DA.
FALISHAK: What is wrong with letting you characters take on a life of their
own?
Bolitar: Nothing.
MRSFRENCHY: I'm laughing so hard my asthma's kicked up.
Bolitar: I'm just not sure, Fal, that that realllyhappens. I mean, it
sounds
Jackatbrun: !
Bolitar: good. Don't get me wrong. But in the end, your job as a writer
Bolitar: is to sorta stay out of the way and tell the story. But I agree
with you.
Bolitar: It's just semantics. G A
FALISHAK: I'm sorry, I thought you said we needed to control them, why?
LMBRUN5: (MRSFRENCHY, remember if you put an empty inhaler in the garbage,
no one is ever so success
Bolitar: Not control them, no. Make them real, yes.
LMBRUN5: ful that they get out of taking the garbage out)
LMBRUN5: FALSIHAK, is that clearer or do you need a little more discussion
LMBRUN5: on the role of character?
FALISHAK: Such as killing one off if it gets to bossy.
Bolitar: Fal, cardinal rule: do whatever makes you write. Always.
Spkld1: LM: Jack had a comment to this...
Bolitar: You go, Jack.
Jackatbrun: That characters take on a life of their own, write the story...
is a romantic thought, but
LMBRUN5: oops, thanks Spkld1.
LMBRUN5: (Sorry I missed that !, Jack)
Jackatbrun: impractical, I believe. They can have fun, win, lose, love, die,
but if they don't
Jackatbrun: serve the story, the writer has lost control.
Jackatbrun: I'm wondering, too, about "real" characters... credible, yes,
but if
Spkld1: ! Yeah, that's no garantee they'll go in the direction you want them
to.
Bolitar: It's another fine line. The characters sereve the story, but
Bolitar: they cannot be a slave to it.
Jackatbrun: too real they become boring, their dialog wasteful and trivial.
Jackatbrun: There the writer takes control to drive the story to a
fulfilling conclusion, no? ga
Bolitar: Agreed, Jack. By real I mean credible.
FALISHAK: If you give the character the life to go on will he or she or it
not continue with the story
Bolitar: Every piece of fiction is simply this:
Bolitar: Your hero travels down the road of life. You throw
Bolitar: roadblocks and land mines in his way. He goes through
Bolitar: them. The end.
Bolitar: God, that was deep.
Jackatbrun: ...and is changed, thereby.
Spkld1: heh-heh-heh,
Bolitar: Yes, Jack, that's normally true. But I wonder how much
Jackatbrun: <Putting on boots.>
Bolitar: we really change so I left it out.
MRSFRENCHY: But what does he/she do after the end?
Bolitar: In a series, MrsF, you get to find out :)
SteeIBtrfl: you get to be a voyeur, peek into how another human solves
something
Jackatbrun: Do you write the change or no?
Bolitar: I crippled poor Myron at the end of ONE FALSE MOVE. I got
Bolitar: to bring him back in THE FINAL DETAIL.
FALISHAK: ?
LMBRUN5: (We are down to 5 minutes folks. Time for one last question.)
LMBRUN5: Falishak
FALISHAK: But to write the NOVEL do you need to continue with the character
Bolitar: Everyone does it differently. Me, I know my ending.
Bolitar: I know my beginning.
Bolitar: I go back and it's like traveling from New Jersey to California.
Bolitar: I may take Route 80 or
Bolitar: I may go via the Panama Canal.
Bolitar: But I'll end up in California.
Bolitar: EL Doctorow once said that it's like driving at night
Bolitar: with your headlights on.
Bolitar: You can only see a little way ahead of you but you
Bolitar: can make the whole trip that way.
Bolitar: I like that.
Jackatbrun: <The journey is all.>
LMBRUN5: Like a road map? You just have to know the route and the detours.
Bolitar: The car (character) is key. But so is your map (plot).
FALISHAK: Thank you so much Mr. Coben, I really learned a lot, when will you
be back?
Spkld1: ! Yeah, I do much the same. Know where I started and where I'm
going, then fill in the middl
Bolitar: Let's all join hands now and sing Kumbaya.....
Bolitar: By the way, more info at www.harlancoben.com.
Bolitar: Or Amazon.com.
SteeIBtrfl: I'm happy if I figure out where I am starting
LMBRUN5: ROTFLOL Harlan, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
Jackatbrun: Falishak, killing off your protagonist is a sure way to end a
story or novel. <g>
Bolitar: Or wherever fine books are sold.
Bolitar: Or even lousy books.
MRSFRENCHY: Enjoyed, asthma attack and all.
Spkld1: Thanks Harlan! It was a great chat!
Bolitar: Thank you all.
Spkld1: ::: Applause! ::: ::: Applause! :::
Jackatbrun: Thanks, Harlan. I remember the days in '95 with you Marigo and
the rest in the Cafe. Good
Jackatbrun: times.
Bolitar: Oh and if you want the FREE Coben newsletter, just
Bolitar: send me an email.
Spkld1: To join our weekly mailing list send an email to SPKLD1@AOL.COM,
including the words
Spkld1: JOIN MEMO in the subject line.
Bolitar: Free and worth every penny.
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