Klass Book

 Msg: #7384  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      22-MAR-88  11:42 PM
Subj: Klass Book
From: Sysop
  To: All

Have just received Phil Klass' newest book, "UFO Abductions: A Dangerous
Game," in which he attempts to tear to shreds the entire abduction phenomenon.
My copy was inscribed, "To Jim Speiser -- May you be spared." I'm just getting
into it, but it seems a bit rushed, as if he wrote it over the weekend. The
chapter on Travis Walton's abduction is quite interesting, not just because of
what it says, but because of what it doesn't say. I'll have more to say on
that point after I finish the book, but tonight I talked at length with Tracy
Torme, who has written the script for the upcoming movie "Fire in the Sky"
about the Walton affair. When I read him the pertinent parts of the chapter,
he was practically frothing at the mouth. He has promised to write a rebuttal
for ParaNet. Tracy and I have had many talks about the Walton abduction, and
if he is right about even half the stuff he says, Klass is just plain all wet.
I'll give you an example: In the book, Klass claims that Walton's crew chief,
Mike Rogers, was way behind in his contract with the Forest Service, and
nothing short of an act of God would prevent him from being penalized. So he
created an Act of God -- or more correctly, Space Brothers. Klass theorizes
that if Rogers could convince the Forest Service that the UFO incident so
scared his workers that they refused to return to the site, that would fulfill
the Act of God clause in his contract and he would be rewarded an extension.
Thus the whole thing was a hoax created to save a $25,000 contract. What Klass
DOESN'T tell you is that not only was Rogers NOT granted an extension, he lost
the entire balance of the contract -- AND was unable to find work for a long
period afterwards, AND lost his wife over the incident. All this to claim a
- More (Y)/N/NS?
$5000 prize from the National Enquirer. Yet neither he nor any of his workers
has ever recanted the story -- EVEN THOUGH THE SAME TABLOID OFFERED EACH OF
THEM $5000 TO RECANT!!
  <Continued>

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 Msg: #7385  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      22-MAR-88  11:44 PM
Subj: Klass Book <contd> (R)
From: Sysop
  To: All

Tracy has asked me to ask ParaNet users what they think of the Walton
abduction, and I promised to forward the highlights of our discussion to him.
What do you think?

        Jim

Reply(s) #7394 #7402 #7412

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 Msg: #7394  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      23-MAR-88  02:16 AM
Subj: #7385 - Klass Book <contd> (R)
From: James Vincent
  To: Sysop (X)

I don't know a thing about the Walton abduction. Anything in Memory Alpha that
might help?

-=James

Reply(s) #7406

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 Msg: #7406  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      23-MAR-88  07:22 AM
Subj: #7394 - Klass Book <contd> (R)
From: Sysop
  To: James Vincent (X)

No, not yet. I'll try to upload something anon.

Reply(s) #7445

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 Msg: #7445  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      24-MAR-88  02:02 AM
Subj: #7406 - Klass Book <contd>
From: James Vincent
  To: Sysop (X)

Well let me know son! Let me know!

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 Msg: #7402  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      23-MAR-88  03:34 AM
Subj: #7385 - Klass Book <contd> (R)
From: Craig Kraft
  To: Sysop (X)

I have read a bit on it and i think it is a good, solid case.  I think klass
is all wet on this one, what does he say about Strieber?
                          craig

Reply(s) #7408

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 Msg: #7408  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      23-MAR-88  07:31 AM
Subj: #7402 - Klass Book <contd> (R)
From: Sysop
  To: Craig Kraft (X)

Don't know, haven't gotten that far into the book. But from his talks, he
agrees that Whitley's chimney don't reach the roofline. But like you, he keeps
bringing in the money aspect, and the "imaginative writer" aspect, as if
people like Michael Shea, the government attorney-abductee, don't exist.

Reply(s) #7433

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 Msg: #7433  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      24-MAR-88  12:01 AM
Subj: #7408 - Klass Book <contd>
From: Craig Kraft
  To: Sysop (X)

I havent heard about the Shea case, perhaps you could tell me about it. I have
to agree that Whitley isnt playing with a full deck but then again I think the
same think about Stephen King.  Whitleys case should be taken aside from the
rest of the cases i think because of the points Klass raises.  Read the Hunger
and you will see what I mean.....

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 Msg: #7412  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      23-MAR-88  08:19 AM
Subj: #7385 - Klass Book <contd> (R)
From: Jim Delton
  To: Sysop (X)

I recieved Klass's book "UFO's: the public decieved"  ANd have gooten part way
thru it.  He presents a pretty good casse for what he is saying on many of the
incidnets.  In regard to the travis Walton case, he raises some interesting
anomolies about the whole situation and how the various people acted.    At
this point, I have serious doubts abluout the Travis Walton abduction.
According to Klass, All the Walton's were into UFO, and had seen them on many
many odc==cassions.  They even had made plans for what to do if they saw oe
near the ground. He goes into the testing of Walton's Urine samples which
indicate that he was not honest.  EIther the sample was not Walton's, as
clao=imed, or Walton was not abducted and held as he claimed. Reccommmend you
reserve judgment ulntil you get Klass's second book. (again, I lmust
appoligize for this mess, I have incredible line noise on thees phone lines.

Reply(s) #7418 #7435

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 Msg: #7418  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      23-MAR-88  01:32 PM
Subj: #7412 - Klass Book <contd> (R)
From: Sysop
  To: Jim Delton (X)

Jim:
    I have read "The Public Deceived." If Tracy is correct, the public HAS
been deceived -- but not by Ufologists. Recommend YOU reserve judgement until
Tracy files his rebuttal here. There is MUCH more to the case than what Klass
presents.

    I'll give you one example -- "All the Waltons were into UFOs, and had seen
them on many occasions"...utterly false, according to Tracy, who has
interviewed the law enforcement officials involved. They all agree that none
of the Waltons ever filed a UFO report with any of them. A lot of confusion
stems from the fact that Travis' older brother, Duane, shot his mouth off to
try to cash in on the publicity, giving the impression that they had planned
this all along. That may very well be, but to get the other 5 participants to
go along with the whole thing, pass lie detector tests, and stick to the story
for 12 years? How did Duane and Travis accomplish that?

        Jim

Reply(s) #7451

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 Msg: #7451  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      24-MAR-88  08:25 AM
Subj: #7418 - Klass Book <contd> (R)
From: Jim Delton
  To: Sysop (X)

As you may recall from the book, at least one of the witnesses has stated to
Klass that lhe doubts that theer was any UFO but he can't prove there
wasn'tand is concerned about being to public about that doubt.  There is also
the question of what would happen to the participants if they evey did admit
it wa a hoax, they could be subject to civil or crimnal penalties.  In
addition, t=not all of the 5 were necessarilly in on the hoax.  It may be that
only Travis and Rodgers were in on it .  THeir actions could lead one to that
conclusion.  Once they started the ball rolling in terms of "spotting" the UFO
and starting the ruckus, and having travis jump out, and then having rodgers
zoom away before any one else could get out and investigate could have all
been preplanned.  Also there is the question of why Rodgers disappeared for 2
hours in the afternoon and why they left so late that particular day.  Trying
to cast doubt on the basis of how could they continue the hoax so long doesn't
carry much wiegth when you think about how long such hoaxes as Real estate
sales men selling desert land for 15 lyears to people back east without anyone
ever catching on to the hoax.ALso,m I beileve that Klass ahd statment fro a
number of people, including the principles that indicated that they had a long
standing interest in UFO's

Reply(s) #7457

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 Msg: #7457  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      24-MAR-88  12:39 PM
Subj: #7451 - Klass Book <contd>
From: Sysop
  To: Jim Delton

<1> All six claim to have seen the UFO, as far as I know. There is no question
of one of them "doubting" there was a UFO. If they would go so far as to admit
a doubt, I can't see any reason why they wouldn't own up to the whole thing
being a hoax. <2> The statute of limitation expired five years ago, so there
are no civil or criminal penalties at stake. <3> If the object itself were a
hoax, from the descriptions given by all the witnesses, it would have taken
Rogers more than two hours to rig it, and h e couldn' have done it alone. <4>
Your Real Estate analogy is not valid, because it involves Big Bux. Until this
movie deal came along, which is very recent, the witnesses profited from this
precious little. It could be argued that they lost more than they gained. <5>
A long-standing interest in UFOs is immaterial. Many people have a
long-standing interest in UFOs. Do you think the alleged entities would choose
only those who DON'T have an interest in them? Interest in the subject is a
far cry from reporting UFOs often. I have a long-standing interest, yet have
never reported one, nor have I even seen one.

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 Msg: #7435  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      24-MAR-88  12:12 AM
Subj: #7412 - Klass Book <contd> (R)
From: Craig Kraft
  To: Jim Delton (X)

Why did they test his urine?  That seems pretty strange to me.

Reply(s) #7455

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 Msg: #7455  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      24-MAR-88  08:43 AM
Subj: #7435 - Klass Book <contd> (R)
From: Jim Delton
  To: Craig Kraft

It is a well know mediacl fact that people who go witlhout food, for a period
of a few days, start to use up their reserves, fat, and in doing soone of the
byproducts is acetone.  People who are dieting often can  even smell the oder
fro the acteone in their sweat.  I have had that experiance myself.  So when
Walton claims to have been abducted for 5 days and not given food, and to have
lost 10 pounds as a result, lit is a kfact that he should be well into the
acteone stage.  When he returned, he provided a urine sample to the first
doctor that examined him.  Urinalysis, showed no abnormalities at all, and a
complete absence of acetone.  Therefore, either he was lying about the
abductin and wiegth loss or he did not provide that urine sample but someone
else did, probably his brother.  One posible reason is that he was knkow to
have used drugs in the past, and lmay have used them during the 5 days he was
missing and didn't want drugs to show up in the urinalisys so he had his
brother give the sample. Please excuse the gibberish....... Line noise
generate by the UFO hovering over this computer!

Reply(s) #7461

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 Msg: #7461  Sec: 1 - UFOlogy
      24-MAR-88  12:58 PM
Subj: #7455 - Klass Book <contd>
From: Sysop
  To: Jim Delton

I remember being curious about that myself. Will ask Tracy to comment on it --
he did mention something about lowered electrolytes or something...

As to drug use, he smoked marijuana when he was 14. Klass states in ABDUCTIONS
that he came back without a scratch on him....not quite true, there was a mark
on the inside of his left elbow, which the doctor speculated might be from a
needle. Just in the interest of exactitude...

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