Tom Mickus and Dr. Eric Walker

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Note:  The following is a transcript of a phone conversation between
        Tom Mickus and Dr. Eric Walker which took place at approximately
        10:30am on the morning of August 11, 1989.  One word of caution,
        a transcript of course is not the same as hearing it first-hand.
        Tone and emphases of speech are not reproduced here, nor are
        things such as pauses between responses recorded.  Therefore
        those who read the following should be aware of such deficiencies
        before coming to any conclusions.
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------



 <SECRETARY> "Good morning, Dr. Walker's office."

 <MICKUS> "Yes, would Dr. Walker be in?"

 <SECRETARY> "Yes he is, may I tell him who's calling?"

 <MICKUS> "Yes, this is Tom Mickus phoning, I called yesterday."

 <SECRETARY> "Tom Mickus?"

 <MICKUS> "Yes."

 <SECRETARY> "Okay, and what company are you with please?"

 <MICKUS> "Actually I'm a university student."

 <SECRETARY> "Okay, just a minute please."

 <MICKUS> "Thank you."

 (20 second pause)

 <WALKER> "Hello?"

 <MICKUS> "Hello, Mr. Walker?"

 <WALKER> "Yep."

 <MICKUS> "Yeah, my name is, allow me to introduce myself, my name is
          Tom Mickus, I'm a university student here in Toronto, at the
          University of Toronto.

 <WALKER> "Yep."

 <MICKUS> "And I'm phoning from Toronto right now.  I'm also a reporter
          with a computer BBS network.  And just recently, actually two
          days ago, we came into possession of a just released
          research paper.  It was put out by researchers Grant Cameron
          and T. Scott Crain.  You may be familiar with them?  The
          subject matter is quite controversial.  The report itself is
          180 pages and approximately 80 pages deal with yourself and
          some of the reputed statements that you've made, etc.  And
          I'm just wondering if you'd be interested in making a comment
          about the veracity of some of those statements.

 <WALKER> "I'm not sure I know what you're talking about."

 <MICKUS> "Okay, well..."

 <WALKER> "Tell me a little bit more."

 <MICKUS> "Yeah, do you remember corresponding with someone by the
          name of William Steinman?"

 <WALKER> "No."

 <MICKUS> "...from California."

 <WALKER> "No."

 <MICKUS> "Or Scott Crain, he supposedly lives close to you there in
          Pennsylvania?"

 <WALKER> "You know, I know nothing about this. I'm... Have you got
          the right Walker, that's the problem <slight laugh>.

 <MICKUS> "Well, you're the former President of Penn State University?"

 <WALKER> "That's correct."

 <MICKUS> "Yes, and you do have a very distinguished background I might
          say, just from some of the material thats been released. So, I
          guess assuming this is the right Walker, apparently you've
          admitted to in the past when dealing with some of these
          gentlemen, if you maybe forget them (now), about attending
          Research & Development Board meetings in the early 50's,
          back when you were a dollar-a-year man.  Is that substantially
          correct?

 <WALKER> "Well I, huh <slight laugh>, the early 50's you know is many
          years ago and I attended a lot of meetings.  Which one was
          this supposed to be?

 <MICKUS> "I believe this was centered at the Wright-Patterson.
          Apparently it was to deal with, sensational as it is, crashed
          flying vehicles of some sort, UFOs if you want to say that.
  And, like I say, I know its many years ago, but apparently
          in a phone conversation with William Steinman, he has it down
          that you admitted attending some of those meetings.  Indeed,
          it was the late Robert Sarbacher actually pointed you out as
          the person who attended all of those meetings.  Now I know
          that's some 40 yrs ago now.  Did you have any comment on that?

 <WALKER> "(garbled)...well I did attend a lot of meetings, but I can't
          remember any substantive conclusions or anything like that.

 <MICKUS> "Right, and as far as what was discussed there?"

 <WALKER> "As far as the what?"

 <MICKUS> "What was discussed, the topic, the subject matter of those
          meetings?"

 <WALKER> "No, I couldn't remember that at all."

 <MICKUS> "But, you're saying that it had nothing to do with UFOs or
          alien bodies, or anything like this?"

 <WALKER> "Well I don't have any alien bodies in my office, I can tell
          you that."

 <MICKUS> "Well, its quite extraordinary that this paper has come out,
          right now its in limited circulation and due to the computer
          network that I'm associated with, I've managed to obtain a
          copy.  And, like I say, approximately 80 pages deals with
          material centered around yourself..."

 <WALKER> "Hmm."

 <MICKUS> "...and, I'm just interested if you'd be interested in seeing
          some of this, if I could come down and meet you for instance?
          And you could see some of this stuff first-hand, and comment
          on it."

 <WALKER> "Well, I don't think that would be very useful; you might
          want to send it to me, and I'll see if it reminds me of
          anything."

 <MICKUS> "Un huh.  I guess being, ..from my own disposition here with
          the Network and stuff, I'd be interested in trying to get a
          reaction about some of this because..if these authors have
          engaged in a bit of a fantasy, well then I would like to
          expose that."

 <WALKER> "What's the Network, I don't understand."

 <MICKUS> "Its a fairly modest undertaking, but its a group of Bulletin
          Board Systems linked up here in Canada and in the United
          States, and that's something which I run, and this subject
          matter is one of the things we primarily discuss.  And so,
          that's why I'd take the time to talk with you, and come visit
          you if you wouldn't mind, and get a more in-depth response.

 <WALKER> "Well, you know <slight laugh>, this sounds to me like an
          awful waste of time and...if people want to diddle around
          that way, I say let them diddle, but don't involve me."

 <MICKUS> "Right..."

 <WALKER> "I just don't have time for such crap."

 <MICKUS> "Now, just the fact that they spent so much time in this
          paper...like I say, the paper is 180 pages, the title is
          'UFOs, MJ-12 AND THE GOVERNMENT', and...I mean would you
          have any reaction as to why they would place you in that
          context?"

 <WALKER> "Well I'll tell ya, I'll get interested when I see one of
          of those little green men they talk about.  Until they do,
          I just couldn't spend any time on it."

 <MICKUS> "So, therefore you deny ever having any relationship whatsoever
          in your earlier government dealings with the discussion of UFOs
          or alien bodies, anything like that, you deny that was part of
          the Research & Development Board meetings and subsequent
          activities that you may have been involved with?"

 <WALKER> "<slight laugh> You know, you're just wasting your time and
          money, and I'm sorry but I've got other things to do."

 <MICKUS> "Okay, but if I could just get an on the record comment,
          response from you on that, because I don't know, I think you
          may be hearing more about this because if this thing gets
          in wide circulation you may have other people knocking on
          your door trying to get a reaction."

 <WALKER> "I don't have any reaction, I'm sorry."

 <MICKUS> "Do you deny it?"

 <WALKER> "Thank you."

 <MICKUS> "Mr. Walker..."


          <click>