AWAKEN issues (Jehovah's Witness)
AWAKEN ISSUE #1
QUESTIONS WHICH THE LEADERS OF THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
WILL NEVER ANSWER.
By: RICH GRIESE
Below is a list of questions that I had sent to the Watchtower
Bible & Tract Society Governing Body, in April 1991. I have yet to
receive a response.
Question #1
Can individuals read & understand the Bible alone, or do they need an
organization and it's publications to do so?
Question #2
Can Jehovah's Witness hold and discuss openly with other Jehovah's
Witnesses opinions that differ from orthodox Watch Tower doctrine? Is
there any valid reason for a person to decide that he does not wish to
belong to the Jehovah's Witnesses?
Question #3
What is God's proper name "Yahweh" or "Jehovah"? if "Yahweh" is more
proper, is it showing the proper respect to "Yahweh" to say that
because "Jehovah" is more commonly used it does not matter how you
pronounce the name? And, should an religion that puts so much
emphasis on the name of God use any other version than the proper
pronunciation?
Question #4
Did President Fred Franz get an Rhodes Scholarship offer from the
Rhodes Scholarship organization? If not, why did he testify under
oath that he was offered one, and why was this information published
in Watch Tower publications?
Question #5
Did the Watch Tower and the Governing Body currently teach that
Armageddon will come before the close of the twentieth century
according to information published in the January 1, 1989 Watch Tower?
Also, why were the dates in the article changed to not be specific to
the twentieth century when it was published in the bound form at the
end of the year?
Question #6
Did the Watch Tower and the Governing body believe and publish
information that Jesus's 1000 year millenial reign would take place in
1975?
Question #7
Did the Watch Tower and the Governing Body believe that in or around
1925 there would be an awakening of Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, and
others mentioned in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews, and that there
would be an end to death at that time?
Question #8
Did the Watch Tower and the Governing Body believe that the year 1914
was the beginning of the Armageddon of the Scriptures?
Question #9
Is any portion of the Watch Tower or the Governing Body to be
considered a prophet of God, or the voice of God? Do the Governing
Body or its associated corporations have better information from God
or have a more direct channel to or from God's thoughts than others?
If this is true why has God changed his opinion, based on Watchtower
teachings, so many times in Watch Tower history?
Question #10
Why were the Jehovah's Witnesses in Mexico at one time told to not use
Bibles, not hold prayers, not sing religious songs, and deny that they
were part of a religious group, but were simply part of a "Cultural"
group even though religious groups were not in any way prohibited by
the Mexican government at the time? Did it have anything to do with
the Watch Tower or the Governing Body's desire to own property in
Mexico, which was prohibited under Mexican law, rather than be known
as a religion?
Question #11
Was Beth-Sarim, the Mansion owned and operated by the Watchtower Bible
& Tract Society in San Diego and used by Joe Rutherford in the 1920's
built as a residence for Enoch and other holy men from the Bible when
they were expected to rise from the dead in 1925 by the Watch Tower?
Rich Griese
--------------------------------------------
Mr. Griese has researched the Watchtower's teachings. In future
issues of AWAKEN, we will bring you the results of his findings.
Please also download WAKEUP9.TXT from CRS BBS at (416)629-7020, for
detailed facts about the Watchtower's failed predictions for 1975.
Please share the info found in these issues of AWAKEN with other
members of the faith to which you belong. Consider using this
info within publications issued to members of your faith. One
example is to use this info within Church bulletins. People need
to become informed about the Watchtower and it's teachings. Why ?
Jehovah's Witnesses go door to door preaching whatever the
Watchtower has told them to preach. The are trained weekly to
respond to any and all objections to their preaching. They are
told by the Watchtower that the Watchtower is the only TRUTH
and that the Watchtower is the only TRUE religion. They are
told by the Watchtower that all other faiths, teach
false teachings because all other faiths are agents of SATAN.
They have no qualms attacking any and all aspects your belief
system, when they come on their un-asked for visits. They are
trained to SELL you on the Watchtower's teachings, just as they
themselves had been SOLD.
By becoming informed about the Jehovah's Witnesses, one will be
better prepared to decide whether one should get invloved with
this group.
Copyright (c) 1991 by Vince Banial, Toronto Ontario Canada.
This material may be freely copied as long as it remains intact.
Please U/L this file to other BBSs that you call.
AWAKEN ISSUE #2
A JEHOVAH'S PRESENT THE WATCHTOWER BIBLE TRACT SOCIETY'S VIEWS
OF ALL OTHER RELIGIONS.
Copyright (c) 1991 by Vince Banial, Toronto Ontario Canada
This text may be freely copied aslong as it kept intact and unchanged.
Mark Cotherman is a Jehovah's Witness. The following are his remarks
about Christianity. They are consistent with the views of all
followers of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania,
better known as Jehovah's Witnesses. Many people have asked me why
I go to the trouble that I do to present facts about the Jehovah's
Witnesses. I do this because they visit people door to door. The come
uninvited. They all come trained to counter your objections. They
come well versed in the perceived faults of any faith, but their own.
They profess love of neighbor but on the other hand they privately
despise all who are not followers of the Watchtower. It is unlikely
that those who received their unwanted visits know their true feelings
about other faiths. What Mr. Cotherman calls Christendom applies to
all other faiths (Muslim, Hindi, Buddist etc).
The following are Mr. Cotherman's words :
Do you not agree that Christians should be awake in the time of the end.
There are less JWs on welfare than RC also less in prison, on drugs,
smoke, kill other "christians" in war, like in Ireland, WWI, WWII, Korea,
Vietnam, Iraq, Central America (RC killing RC). Like Jesus said you will
recognize his people by the fruit they produce- LOVE. Why don't you
question your own beliefs about that? Your churches support of Hitler
during WWII, while he was killing 10s of thousands. Including JW's for
their LOVING their neighbors as themselves by not supporting him or any
other WORLDLY nation.
Or how about unity. Paul told the Corinthians to speak in UNITY.
Where is your churches unity? Killing in wars is about the only thing
their united in doing. A rotten tree can't produce fine fruit, show me
your religions fine fruit compared to it's bloodguilt?
Look at the fruits JW's ARE PRODUCING and compare them to the
inquisition, Bible burnings, Wars, the history of Christendom.
The JW's are a fine tree, christendom is going to be chopped down
and thrown in the fire for it's worthless fruit.
JW's also show their LOVE for people by warning them of the
destruction of this system. We don't get paid for our door to door
preaching. Show me where any other group preaches God's Kingdom as the
only hope for mankind and then shows it by their actions. Christendom
says that the U.N. is mankinds hope for peace. J.W.'s ACTIVELY preach
that Jehovah's kingdom under his son Jesus Christ will soon destroy all
false religion, governments and set up His own over the earth to mans
eternal benefit. Jesus said you would recognize his followers by the
fruit they produced. Show me YOUR religions fruit.
A Christian is a person who wouldn't do to someone else what the
would do to Jesus himself and they do what Jesus did and commanded. At
Matthew 28:19,20 Jesus told ALL of his follower to go and make disciples
if all of his disciples made disciples then all would be disciple
makers. Kinda like taking a penny and doubling it each day. ALL WOULD
BE PREACHERS.
Jehovah's Witnesses produce the fruitage of God's holy spirit.
Whether you or the Griese's want to recognise that is something that
you'll have to answer for. But, JW's will continue to follow Jehovah
God and his Son teaching other spiritual minded people to benefit
themselves by being TRUE christians.
Witnesses know the facts. We offer the solution to your faith and the
fruitages of it...War, crime, immorality, abortions, drugs, broken
families, child abuse, fear of Armageddon, enslavement to false
doctrines, the burning anger of Jehovah.
One of my best friend is 86. He's been a Witness longer than
you've been alive. Who doesn't know JW history? The book your reading
or someone who was there. He have EVERY Watchtower ever printed and
almost all the books IN HIS HOME. The FACT is the Watchtower Bible and
Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) produce the FINE FRUIT of TRUE
CHRISTIANITY as specified by Jesus Christ himself. LOVE AMOUNG
THEMSELVES. CHRISTENDOM can't take a step toward saying that. Her
HISTORY prevents it. Inquisition, burning people as heretics, crusades,
corruption of the papacy, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Central America and
the list goes on.
Why don't you attack for our lack of love for each other and our
neighbors since we refuse to murder in war for any cause. We spend
MILLIONS of hours each year trying to teach people the Bible so they
will love their neighbors. Or, attack our lack of morals. The Bible
teaches the highest moral cleanness if we didn't follow this that would
be a sign of not following the Bible. We would have priests molesting
children in schools (insurance companies will not longer insure the
Catholic schools against molestation cases), premarital sexual
relations, homosexuality would be acceptable, drug dealers, drug users,
crime bosses, corrupt politians, extramarital affairs would be ok,
ABORTIONS, wars, just stating facts about what to look for when the
Bible isn't followed. Spread this to your family and friends to help
them see the truth about "THE TRUTH."
I'm not a pioneer, yet. September 1, 1992.
Selling? Jehovah's Witnesses don't sell. Selling implies making a
profit we distribute our literature to people WHO WILL READ IT and if
they CHOOSE they can donate for it.
Publishers have no (as you put it) quota of hours. Pioneers also put in
increased time because THEY WANT TO. Pioneering is a voluntary action
by individual Witnesses which they can stop anytime they feel they must.
They don't get paid either.
VB>Watchtower claims that governments and their agencies are agents of
VB>Satan,
The BIBLE says that the worldly governments are controled by Satan (1
John 5: 19)
VB>but the Watchtower has no problems with many of it's
VB>Pioneers sitting on Welfare. I guess that for Watchtower Pioneers,
VB>it is no problem for an agency of Satan (welfare department which
VB>is a governmental agency so must also be Satan's agency) to be
VB>supporting the Watchtower.
Your BIBLICAL logic escapes you.<g>
----------------- END ---------------------
Please note that future issues of AWAKEN will touch on points
discussed by Mr. Cotherman. The following is one of my replies
to Mr. Cotherman's messages. I think that you find the facts
to be of interest. If you are a member of CRS BBS (416)629-7020,
then please download the file WAKEUP9.TXT which contains details
about Watchtower predictions for 1975. Please upload this file
to all other BBSs that you call. Please share this info with other
members of your belief system.
The following are some replies to Mr. Cotherman:
MC> I didn't see 1975 in any of your comments. Only six millinum
MC> were ending in the MID-70's.
First of all I would like to thank you for taking the time to reply.
You have brought up a number of points in your 3 messages to me. I
would like to reply to each of your points. Please bear with me,
while I prepare appropriate replies. Please also note that there
are many beliefs that you and I share in common. I did not present
my present belief system to you or to anyone else as the belief
system to follow. I am sorry if I had not made myself clear on
that point.
From your statement quoted above, it seems that you did not receive
the initial messages which I sent to you regarding 1975. The update
message was just an addition to those messages. In the update
message, you are very correct when you state that it does not speak
of 1975 specificaly. This update message was drawing on info from
the prior 3 messages on that topic. I will resend those three
messages. I also believe that since you did not receive those
messages you must have missed the two which discuss Ecclesiastes
9:5, which you had quoted from. I'll send that up to you aswell.
From your quote you agree that the Watchtower did convey that
6 millennium was to end in the mid seventies. The Watchtower also
conveyed that the millennial reign of Christ would "have" to follow
the sixth millenium. Before Christ's millennial reign, the end of
this system of things must occur.
I'll quote from the Watchtower book called THINGS IN WHICH IT IS
IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE, pg 360:
"This trouble will result in destruction to that world empire of
false religion, "Babylon the Great", and to the imperfect political
governments of this earth".
The Watchtower magazine of May, 01, 1968 on pg 272 states :
"The immediate future is certain to be filled with climatic events,
for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years
at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these "last
days" will undergo fulfillment, resulting in the liberation of
surviving mankind into Christ's glorious 1,000 year reign. What
difficult days, but, at the same time, what grand days are
just ahead!"
So we see that only the survivors of this great war will go into
Christ's 1,000 year reign. Clearly, the Watchtower states that
the end of this system of things must occur after the end of the
sixth millenium and before the seventh millenium started. Since
the sixth millenium ended in the mid-70s, therefore we are well
into the seventh millenium.
MC> Teachings? What teachings? Facts? What facts?
MC> He have EVERY Watchtower ever printed and almost all the
MC> books IN HIS HOME.
You see I also have about 15 years worth of Watchtower publications
on the shelf. I don't know if you lived thru 1975, but I did. I
think that the Watchtower should be commended for the things that
are Biblical, such their stand against the taking of life. I also
feel that the Watchtower should be held accountable when it has made
predictions, especially when said predictions have failed. Having
a failed prediction has biblical consequences. Surely, if the
Watchtower was GOD's prophet, as it had made claim to be, then the
Watchtower should either not have made any predictions or the said
predictions should have happened as predicted. The lesson of 1914
was not learned.
I'll now quote from the Watchtower book called MAN'S SALVATION
OUT OF WORLD DISTRESS AT HAND!, see page 136:
"Furthermore, the remnant of spiritual Israel had for decades,
yes, since the year 1876, been looking forward to the ending of the
Times of the Gentiles in the autumn of 1914. They were expressing
God's Messianic kingdom to be fully established in the heavens
by then and also for the remnant of spiritual Israel to be
glorified with Jesus Christ in the heavenly kingdom at that time.
All understanding of the Holy scriptures was slanted in that
direction or adjusted to that idea. And when the year 1941 ended
amid the flames of World War I and the remnant of spiritual Israel
found themselves still here on earth, then they were inclined to
think that they would be glorified in the year 1918, three and a
half years after the end of the Gentile Times."
NOTE: the book from which this quote was taken was printed in 1975.
The fact is stated clearly by the Watchtower that these spiritual
Israelites "SLANTED" their understanding of the Holy Scriptures or
they "ADJUSTED" the Holy Scriptures to that idea. You and I both
know that the title Spiritual Israelites is just another name for
followers of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.
Is that any way for GOD's only channel of communication and GOD's
prophet to behave ? What about the honesty about which you spoke.
This is clear evidence that the Watchtower SLANTED and ADJUSTED
the Holy Scriptures to their own ideas. If they did it in the past,
how are you to know that they have stopped doing such things?
Since you also did not get my message discussing the proven
archealogical fact that the temple in Jerusalem was "NOT" destroyed
by the Babylonians in 607 BCE. It is archealogical fact that it was
destroyed in 587 BCE. The Watchtower adds 2520 years to 607 BCE to
get their 1914 CE date. Since the temple was destroyed in 587 BCE,
then the 2520 years should have been added to 587 BCE resulting
in 1934 CE. This is provable fact, not conjecture. The Watchtower
continues to claim that the temple was destroyed in 607 BCE.
AWAKEN ISSUE #3
THE WATCHTOWER STRETCHES THE GREAT PYRAMID OF GIZEH
AND OTHER WATCHTOWER TEACHING ABOUT PYRAMIDS
The following section has been written by Mr. Rich Griese:
How knowledgeable are you about the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society?
I have done some research, have talked to a few JWs and come away more
confussed about the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society that when I
started. I would be interested in talking to you about both
Watchtower theology and its evolution over the years, as well as the
growth of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society corporation polocies
and procedures. Maybe we could initially begin with a quick readers
digest version of original theology, and see where we go from their.
My understanding of the original theology from reading Studies in
the Scriptues, by Charles Russell the founder of the Watchtower Bible
& Tract Society, was that God offeres a eternal reward to all men.
Man, being imperfect, finds it impossible to attain this eternal
reward (Due to Adamic sin which we can deal with in more detail at a
latter date). Christ, as a ransom sacrafice, repaid the Adamic debt.
And since that debt has been paid all can once again attain this
eternal reward.
As to how the eternal reward are collected my understanding of Studies
in the Scriptures was as follows. The decision to Join God or not would
be made by all men during the 1000 Millenial reign of Christ.
Upon Christ's return the world as we know it would be destroyed, and
all men (with the exception of a select few that will live through
the end to act as verifiers of the facts) would be killed. Then a new
process would take place. All humanity would begin to be ressurected
from the dead, be made "perfect", and be educated in the Ways of God.
Once made "perfect", and educated the would live for at least 1000
years in their new form, and at the end of that time would be put to a
test (similar to the test that brought on Adamic sin). If the test
is past, that individual would be granted eternal life and would live
in communion with God forever.
The purpose of our present life to to accumulte knowledge and
experience of good and evil, so that we can come to understand that
without the help of God, human could never achieve a satisfactory
existence. It is almost like an object lesson in the value in listen
to God. Except for a few select individuals (which we can discuss
later) none of us can do anything in this life that will either
exclude or garantee our eternal reward. All the tests will be
faced in our ressurrected life, after we have been made "perfect" and
have come to a full knowledge of God.
This original theology is quite different than current dogma.
Early Watchtower theology included looking for clues for the end of
time in the "Great Pyrimid". The Watchtower has been able to do
amazing things in their history, including streching the size of the
structure 41 inches in one direction from 3416 to 3457 inches. Of
course the changes in dates "just happened" to re-enforce the time
that the world was supposed to end. In fact both of these figures are
wrong, the length of this particular measure is 3384.904 inches. Yet
it is interesting that different editions can use the exact same words
except different numbers for the measure of the pyrimid.
From the Watchtower published book called Studies in the Scriptures,
Vol 3 (early edition) Russell :
"... This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year B.C. 1542,
as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage"
from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit",
representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is
to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be
3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years from the above date, B.C. 1542.
This calculation shows A.D. 1874 as marking the beginning of the
period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1874 years equals 3416
years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1874 was the
chronological beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since
there was a nation-..."
Studies in The Scriptures, Vol 3 (1923 edition) Russell :
"... This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year B.C. 1542,
as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage"
from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit",
representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is
to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be
3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years from the above date, B.C. 1542.
This calculation shows A.D. 1915 as marking the beginning of the
period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1915 years equals 3457
years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 was the
chronological beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since
there was a nation-..."
Of course all JWs know the date 1914 as the date who's "Generation"
will by no means pass away before the "New System" comes. Of course
that makes this "Generation" 77 years old. Is the Watchtower running
out of time? What will they come up with next?
Most JW do not even know about this information, the only date that is
important to a JW is the date the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is
currently pushing. The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society has had lots
of experience setting and changing date, and are much harder to catch
these days. They have become much more nebulas about their dates.
These days they are simply saying that Armegedon is very, very close.
Rich Griese
---------------------------------------
Mr. Griese has researched the Watchtower's teachings. In future
issues of AWAKEN, we will bring you more results from his findings.
Right now I would like to add to Mr. Griese's finding with the
following quotes from other Watchtower publications. Please note
that Jehovah's Witnesses get all their doctrine from the Watchtower
Bible and Tract Society via their publications.
THE WATCH TOWER magazine, 06/05/1922, page 187 :
"The chronology of present truth might be a mere happening if it were
not for the repitions on the two great cycles of 1845 and 2520 years,
which takes it out of the realm of chance and into that of certainty.
If there were only one or two corresponding dates in these cycles,
they might possibly be mere coincidences, but where the agreements
of dates and events come by the dozens, they cannot possibly be by
chance, but must be by the design or plan of the only personal Being
capable of such a plan - Jehovah himself; and the chronology itself
must be right.
In the passages of the Great Pyramid of Gizeh the agreement of one
or two measurements proves that the same God designed both pyramid
and plan - and at the same time proves the correctness of the
chronology.
The agreement of the chronology with certain measurements of the
Tabernacle and the Temple of Ezekiel further stamps the chronology
as true.
It is on the basis of such and so many correspondencies - in
accordance with the soundest laws know to science - that we affirm
that, Scripturally, scientifically and historically, present-truth
chronology is correct beyond a doubt. Its reliability has been
abundantly confirmed by the dates and events of 1874, 1914, and
1918. Present-truth chronology is a secure basis on which the
consecrated child of God may endeavor to search things to come"
THE WATCH TOWER magazine, 05/15/1925, page 148:
"The great Pyramid of Egypt, standing as a silent and manimate
witness of the Lord, is a messenger; and its testimony speaks
with great eloquence concerning the devine plan (Isaiah 19:19)"
So we see that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of
Pennsylvania was preaching about Pyramids up to 1925. You should
also note that the Watchtower "stated" in no uncertain terms that
GOD desiged the Great Pyramid of Gizeh. I bet you that no Jehovah's
Witness has ever called on you to tell that they once preached such things.
Most if not all Jehovah's Witnesses do not know this. Most don't even
know that the founder of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of
Pennsylvania asked to be and was buried under a huge pyramid shaped
tombstone.
Please also download WAKEUP9.TXT from CRS BBS at (416)629-7020, for
detailed facts about the Watchtower's failed predictions for 1975.
Please share the info found in these issues of AWAKEN with other
members of the faith to which you belong. Consider using this
info within publications issued to members of your faith. One
example is to use this info within Church bulletins. People need
to become informed about the Watchtower and it's teachings. Why ?
Jehovah's Witnesses go door to door preaching whatever the
Watchtower has told them to preach. The are trained weekly to
respond to any and all objections to their preaching. They are
told by the Watchtower that the Watchtower is the only TRUTH
and that the Watchtower is the only TRUE religion. They are
told by the Watchtower that all other faiths, teach
false teachings because all other faiths are agents of SATAN.
They have no qualms attacking any and all aspects your belief
system, when they come on their un-asked for visits. They are
trained to SELL you on the Watchtower's teachings, just as they
themselves had been SOLD.
By becoming informed about the Jehovah's Witnesses, one will be
better prepared to decide whether one should get invloved with
this group.
Copyright (c) 1991 by Vince Banial, Toronto Ontario Canada.
This material may be freely copied as long as it remains intact & unchanged.
Please U/L this file to other BBSs that you call.
QUESTIONS WHICH THE LEADERS OF THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
WILL NEVER ANSWER.
By: RICH GRIESE
Below is a list of questions that I had sent to the Watchtower
Bible & Tract Society Governing Body, in April 1991. I have yet to
receive a response.
Question #1
Can individuals read & understand the Bible alone, or do they need an
organization and it's publications to do so?
Question #2
Can Jehovah's Witness hold and discuss openly with other Jehovah's
Witnesses opinions that differ from orthodox Watch Tower doctrine? Is
there any valid reason for a person to decide that he does not wish to
belong to the Jehovah's Witnesses?
Question #3
What is God's proper name "Yahweh" or "Jehovah"? if "Yahweh" is more
proper, is it showing the proper respect to "Yahweh" to say that
because "Jehovah" is more commonly used it does not matter how you
pronounce the name? And, should an religion that puts so much
emphasis on the name of God use any other version than the proper
pronunciation?
Question #4
Did President Fred Franz get an Rhodes Scholarship offer from the
Rhodes Scholarship organization? If not, why did he testify under
oath that he was offered one, and why was this information published
in Watch Tower publications?
Question #5
Did the Watch Tower and the Governing Body currently teach that
Armageddon will come before the close of the twentieth century
according to information published in the January 1, 1989 Watch Tower?
Also, why were the dates in the article changed to not be specific to
the twentieth century when it was published in the bound form at the
end of the year?
Question #6
Did the Watch Tower and the Governing body believe and publish
information that Jesus's 1000 year millenial reign would take place in
1975?
Question #7
Did the Watch Tower and the Governing Body believe that in or around
1925 there would be an awakening of Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, and
others mentioned in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews, and that there
would be an end to death at that time?
Question #8
Did the Watch Tower and the Governing Body believe that the year 1914
was the beginning of the Armageddon of the Scriptures?
Question #9
Is any portion of the Watch Tower or the Governing Body to be
considered a prophet of God, or the voice of God? Do the Governing
Body or its associated corporations have better information from God
or have a more direct channel to or from God's thoughts than others?
If this is true why has God changed his opinion, based on Watchtower
teachings, so many times in Watch Tower history?
Question #10
Why were the Jehovah's Witnesses in Mexico at one time told to not use
Bibles, not hold prayers, not sing religious songs, and deny that they
were part of a religious group, but were simply part of a "Cultural"
group even though religious groups were not in any way prohibited by
the Mexican government at the time? Did it have anything to do with
the Watch Tower or the Governing Body's desire to own property in
Mexico, which was prohibited under Mexican law, rather than be known
as a religion?
Question #11
Was Beth-Sarim, the Mansion owned and operated by the Watchtower Bible
& Tract Society in San Diego and used by Joe Rutherford in the 1920's
built as a residence for Enoch and other holy men from the Bible when
they were expected to rise from the dead in 1925 by the Watch Tower?
Rich Griese
--------------------------------------------
Mr. Griese has researched the Watchtower's teachings. In future
issues of AWAKEN, we will bring you the results of his findings.
Please also download WAKEUP9.TXT from CRS BBS at (416)629-7020, for
detailed facts about the Watchtower's failed predictions for 1975.
Please share the info found in these issues of AWAKEN with other
members of the faith to which you belong. Consider using this
info within publications issued to members of your faith. One
example is to use this info within Church bulletins. People need
to become informed about the Watchtower and it's teachings. Why ?
Jehovah's Witnesses go door to door preaching whatever the
Watchtower has told them to preach. The are trained weekly to
respond to any and all objections to their preaching. They are
told by the Watchtower that the Watchtower is the only TRUTH
and that the Watchtower is the only TRUE religion. They are
told by the Watchtower that all other faiths, teach
false teachings because all other faiths are agents of SATAN.
They have no qualms attacking any and all aspects your belief
system, when they come on their un-asked for visits. They are
trained to SELL you on the Watchtower's teachings, just as they
themselves had been SOLD.
By becoming informed about the Jehovah's Witnesses, one will be
better prepared to decide whether one should get invloved with
this group.
Copyright (c) 1991 by Vince Banial, Toronto Ontario Canada.
This material may be freely copied as long as it remains intact.
Please U/L this file to other BBSs that you call.
AWAKEN ISSUE #2
A JEHOVAH'S PRESENT THE WATCHTOWER BIBLE TRACT SOCIETY'S VIEWS
OF ALL OTHER RELIGIONS.
Copyright (c) 1991 by Vince Banial, Toronto Ontario Canada
This text may be freely copied aslong as it kept intact and unchanged.
Mark Cotherman is a Jehovah's Witness. The following are his remarks
about Christianity. They are consistent with the views of all
followers of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania,
better known as Jehovah's Witnesses. Many people have asked me why
I go to the trouble that I do to present facts about the Jehovah's
Witnesses. I do this because they visit people door to door. The come
uninvited. They all come trained to counter your objections. They
come well versed in the perceived faults of any faith, but their own.
They profess love of neighbor but on the other hand they privately
despise all who are not followers of the Watchtower. It is unlikely
that those who received their unwanted visits know their true feelings
about other faiths. What Mr. Cotherman calls Christendom applies to
all other faiths (Muslim, Hindi, Buddist etc).
The following are Mr. Cotherman's words :
Do you not agree that Christians should be awake in the time of the end.
There are less JWs on welfare than RC also less in prison, on drugs,
smoke, kill other "christians" in war, like in Ireland, WWI, WWII, Korea,
Vietnam, Iraq, Central America (RC killing RC). Like Jesus said you will
recognize his people by the fruit they produce- LOVE. Why don't you
question your own beliefs about that? Your churches support of Hitler
during WWII, while he was killing 10s of thousands. Including JW's for
their LOVING their neighbors as themselves by not supporting him or any
other WORLDLY nation.
Or how about unity. Paul told the Corinthians to speak in UNITY.
Where is your churches unity? Killing in wars is about the only thing
their united in doing. A rotten tree can't produce fine fruit, show me
your religions fine fruit compared to it's bloodguilt?
Look at the fruits JW's ARE PRODUCING and compare them to the
inquisition, Bible burnings, Wars, the history of Christendom.
The JW's are a fine tree, christendom is going to be chopped down
and thrown in the fire for it's worthless fruit.
JW's also show their LOVE for people by warning them of the
destruction of this system. We don't get paid for our door to door
preaching. Show me where any other group preaches God's Kingdom as the
only hope for mankind and then shows it by their actions. Christendom
says that the U.N. is mankinds hope for peace. J.W.'s ACTIVELY preach
that Jehovah's kingdom under his son Jesus Christ will soon destroy all
false religion, governments and set up His own over the earth to mans
eternal benefit. Jesus said you would recognize his followers by the
fruit they produced. Show me YOUR religions fruit.
A Christian is a person who wouldn't do to someone else what the
would do to Jesus himself and they do what Jesus did and commanded. At
Matthew 28:19,20 Jesus told ALL of his follower to go and make disciples
if all of his disciples made disciples then all would be disciple
makers. Kinda like taking a penny and doubling it each day. ALL WOULD
BE PREACHERS.
Jehovah's Witnesses produce the fruitage of God's holy spirit.
Whether you or the Griese's want to recognise that is something that
you'll have to answer for. But, JW's will continue to follow Jehovah
God and his Son teaching other spiritual minded people to benefit
themselves by being TRUE christians.
Witnesses know the facts. We offer the solution to your faith and the
fruitages of it...War, crime, immorality, abortions, drugs, broken
families, child abuse, fear of Armageddon, enslavement to false
doctrines, the burning anger of Jehovah.
One of my best friend is 86. He's been a Witness longer than
you've been alive. Who doesn't know JW history? The book your reading
or someone who was there. He have EVERY Watchtower ever printed and
almost all the books IN HIS HOME. The FACT is the Watchtower Bible and
Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) produce the FINE FRUIT of TRUE
CHRISTIANITY as specified by Jesus Christ himself. LOVE AMOUNG
THEMSELVES. CHRISTENDOM can't take a step toward saying that. Her
HISTORY prevents it. Inquisition, burning people as heretics, crusades,
corruption of the papacy, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Central America and
the list goes on.
Why don't you attack for our lack of love for each other and our
neighbors since we refuse to murder in war for any cause. We spend
MILLIONS of hours each year trying to teach people the Bible so they
will love their neighbors. Or, attack our lack of morals. The Bible
teaches the highest moral cleanness if we didn't follow this that would
be a sign of not following the Bible. We would have priests molesting
children in schools (insurance companies will not longer insure the
Catholic schools against molestation cases), premarital sexual
relations, homosexuality would be acceptable, drug dealers, drug users,
crime bosses, corrupt politians, extramarital affairs would be ok,
ABORTIONS, wars, just stating facts about what to look for when the
Bible isn't followed. Spread this to your family and friends to help
them see the truth about "THE TRUTH."
I'm not a pioneer, yet. September 1, 1992.
Selling? Jehovah's Witnesses don't sell. Selling implies making a
profit we distribute our literature to people WHO WILL READ IT and if
they CHOOSE they can donate for it.
Publishers have no (as you put it) quota of hours. Pioneers also put in
increased time because THEY WANT TO. Pioneering is a voluntary action
by individual Witnesses which they can stop anytime they feel they must.
They don't get paid either.
VB>Watchtower claims that governments and their agencies are agents of
VB>Satan,
The BIBLE says that the worldly governments are controled by Satan (1
John 5: 19)
VB>but the Watchtower has no problems with many of it's
VB>Pioneers sitting on Welfare. I guess that for Watchtower Pioneers,
VB>it is no problem for an agency of Satan (welfare department which
VB>is a governmental agency so must also be Satan's agency) to be
VB>supporting the Watchtower.
Your BIBLICAL logic escapes you.<g>
----------------- END ---------------------
Please note that future issues of AWAKEN will touch on points
discussed by Mr. Cotherman. The following is one of my replies
to Mr. Cotherman's messages. I think that you find the facts
to be of interest. If you are a member of CRS BBS (416)629-7020,
then please download the file WAKEUP9.TXT which contains details
about Watchtower predictions for 1975. Please upload this file
to all other BBSs that you call. Please share this info with other
members of your belief system.
The following are some replies to Mr. Cotherman:
MC> I didn't see 1975 in any of your comments. Only six millinum
MC> were ending in the MID-70's.
First of all I would like to thank you for taking the time to reply.
You have brought up a number of points in your 3 messages to me. I
would like to reply to each of your points. Please bear with me,
while I prepare appropriate replies. Please also note that there
are many beliefs that you and I share in common. I did not present
my present belief system to you or to anyone else as the belief
system to follow. I am sorry if I had not made myself clear on
that point.
From your statement quoted above, it seems that you did not receive
the initial messages which I sent to you regarding 1975. The update
message was just an addition to those messages. In the update
message, you are very correct when you state that it does not speak
of 1975 specificaly. This update message was drawing on info from
the prior 3 messages on that topic. I will resend those three
messages. I also believe that since you did not receive those
messages you must have missed the two which discuss Ecclesiastes
9:5, which you had quoted from. I'll send that up to you aswell.
From your quote you agree that the Watchtower did convey that
6 millennium was to end in the mid seventies. The Watchtower also
conveyed that the millennial reign of Christ would "have" to follow
the sixth millenium. Before Christ's millennial reign, the end of
this system of things must occur.
I'll quote from the Watchtower book called THINGS IN WHICH IT IS
IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE, pg 360:
"This trouble will result in destruction to that world empire of
false religion, "Babylon the Great", and to the imperfect political
governments of this earth".
The Watchtower magazine of May, 01, 1968 on pg 272 states :
"The immediate future is certain to be filled with climatic events,
for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years
at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these "last
days" will undergo fulfillment, resulting in the liberation of
surviving mankind into Christ's glorious 1,000 year reign. What
difficult days, but, at the same time, what grand days are
just ahead!"
So we see that only the survivors of this great war will go into
Christ's 1,000 year reign. Clearly, the Watchtower states that
the end of this system of things must occur after the end of the
sixth millenium and before the seventh millenium started. Since
the sixth millenium ended in the mid-70s, therefore we are well
into the seventh millenium.
MC> Teachings? What teachings? Facts? What facts?
MC> He have EVERY Watchtower ever printed and almost all the
MC> books IN HIS HOME.
You see I also have about 15 years worth of Watchtower publications
on the shelf. I don't know if you lived thru 1975, but I did. I
think that the Watchtower should be commended for the things that
are Biblical, such their stand against the taking of life. I also
feel that the Watchtower should be held accountable when it has made
predictions, especially when said predictions have failed. Having
a failed prediction has biblical consequences. Surely, if the
Watchtower was GOD's prophet, as it had made claim to be, then the
Watchtower should either not have made any predictions or the said
predictions should have happened as predicted. The lesson of 1914
was not learned.
I'll now quote from the Watchtower book called MAN'S SALVATION
OUT OF WORLD DISTRESS AT HAND!, see page 136:
"Furthermore, the remnant of spiritual Israel had for decades,
yes, since the year 1876, been looking forward to the ending of the
Times of the Gentiles in the autumn of 1914. They were expressing
God's Messianic kingdom to be fully established in the heavens
by then and also for the remnant of spiritual Israel to be
glorified with Jesus Christ in the heavenly kingdom at that time.
All understanding of the Holy scriptures was slanted in that
direction or adjusted to that idea. And when the year 1941 ended
amid the flames of World War I and the remnant of spiritual Israel
found themselves still here on earth, then they were inclined to
think that they would be glorified in the year 1918, three and a
half years after the end of the Gentile Times."
NOTE: the book from which this quote was taken was printed in 1975.
The fact is stated clearly by the Watchtower that these spiritual
Israelites "SLANTED" their understanding of the Holy Scriptures or
they "ADJUSTED" the Holy Scriptures to that idea. You and I both
know that the title Spiritual Israelites is just another name for
followers of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.
Is that any way for GOD's only channel of communication and GOD's
prophet to behave ? What about the honesty about which you spoke.
This is clear evidence that the Watchtower SLANTED and ADJUSTED
the Holy Scriptures to their own ideas. If they did it in the past,
how are you to know that they have stopped doing such things?
Since you also did not get my message discussing the proven
archealogical fact that the temple in Jerusalem was "NOT" destroyed
by the Babylonians in 607 BCE. It is archealogical fact that it was
destroyed in 587 BCE. The Watchtower adds 2520 years to 607 BCE to
get their 1914 CE date. Since the temple was destroyed in 587 BCE,
then the 2520 years should have been added to 587 BCE resulting
in 1934 CE. This is provable fact, not conjecture. The Watchtower
continues to claim that the temple was destroyed in 607 BCE.
AWAKEN ISSUE #3
THE WATCHTOWER STRETCHES THE GREAT PYRAMID OF GIZEH
AND OTHER WATCHTOWER TEACHING ABOUT PYRAMIDS
The following section has been written by Mr. Rich Griese:
How knowledgeable are you about the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society?
I have done some research, have talked to a few JWs and come away more
confussed about the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society that when I
started. I would be interested in talking to you about both
Watchtower theology and its evolution over the years, as well as the
growth of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society corporation polocies
and procedures. Maybe we could initially begin with a quick readers
digest version of original theology, and see where we go from their.
My understanding of the original theology from reading Studies in
the Scriptues, by Charles Russell the founder of the Watchtower Bible
& Tract Society, was that God offeres a eternal reward to all men.
Man, being imperfect, finds it impossible to attain this eternal
reward (Due to Adamic sin which we can deal with in more detail at a
latter date). Christ, as a ransom sacrafice, repaid the Adamic debt.
And since that debt has been paid all can once again attain this
eternal reward.
As to how the eternal reward are collected my understanding of Studies
in the Scriptures was as follows. The decision to Join God or not would
be made by all men during the 1000 Millenial reign of Christ.
Upon Christ's return the world as we know it would be destroyed, and
all men (with the exception of a select few that will live through
the end to act as verifiers of the facts) would be killed. Then a new
process would take place. All humanity would begin to be ressurected
from the dead, be made "perfect", and be educated in the Ways of God.
Once made "perfect", and educated the would live for at least 1000
years in their new form, and at the end of that time would be put to a
test (similar to the test that brought on Adamic sin). If the test
is past, that individual would be granted eternal life and would live
in communion with God forever.
The purpose of our present life to to accumulte knowledge and
experience of good and evil, so that we can come to understand that
without the help of God, human could never achieve a satisfactory
existence. It is almost like an object lesson in the value in listen
to God. Except for a few select individuals (which we can discuss
later) none of us can do anything in this life that will either
exclude or garantee our eternal reward. All the tests will be
faced in our ressurrected life, after we have been made "perfect" and
have come to a full knowledge of God.
This original theology is quite different than current dogma.
Early Watchtower theology included looking for clues for the end of
time in the "Great Pyrimid". The Watchtower has been able to do
amazing things in their history, including streching the size of the
structure 41 inches in one direction from 3416 to 3457 inches. Of
course the changes in dates "just happened" to re-enforce the time
that the world was supposed to end. In fact both of these figures are
wrong, the length of this particular measure is 3384.904 inches. Yet
it is interesting that different editions can use the exact same words
except different numbers for the measure of the pyrimid.
From the Watchtower published book called Studies in the Scriptures,
Vol 3 (early edition) Russell :
"... This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year B.C. 1542,
as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage"
from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit",
representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is
to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be
3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years from the above date, B.C. 1542.
This calculation shows A.D. 1874 as marking the beginning of the
period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1874 years equals 3416
years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1874 was the
chronological beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since
there was a nation-..."
Studies in The Scriptures, Vol 3 (1923 edition) Russell :
"... This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year B.C. 1542,
as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage"
from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit",
representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is
to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be
3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years from the above date, B.C. 1542.
This calculation shows A.D. 1915 as marking the beginning of the
period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1915 years equals 3457
years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 was the
chronological beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since
there was a nation-..."
Of course all JWs know the date 1914 as the date who's "Generation"
will by no means pass away before the "New System" comes. Of course
that makes this "Generation" 77 years old. Is the Watchtower running
out of time? What will they come up with next?
Most JW do not even know about this information, the only date that is
important to a JW is the date the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is
currently pushing. The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society has had lots
of experience setting and changing date, and are much harder to catch
these days. They have become much more nebulas about their dates.
These days they are simply saying that Armegedon is very, very close.
Rich Griese
---------------------------------------
Mr. Griese has researched the Watchtower's teachings. In future
issues of AWAKEN, we will bring you more results from his findings.
Right now I would like to add to Mr. Griese's finding with the
following quotes from other Watchtower publications. Please note
that Jehovah's Witnesses get all their doctrine from the Watchtower
Bible and Tract Society via their publications.
THE WATCH TOWER magazine, 06/05/1922, page 187 :
"The chronology of present truth might be a mere happening if it were
not for the repitions on the two great cycles of 1845 and 2520 years,
which takes it out of the realm of chance and into that of certainty.
If there were only one or two corresponding dates in these cycles,
they might possibly be mere coincidences, but where the agreements
of dates and events come by the dozens, they cannot possibly be by
chance, but must be by the design or plan of the only personal Being
capable of such a plan - Jehovah himself; and the chronology itself
must be right.
In the passages of the Great Pyramid of Gizeh the agreement of one
or two measurements proves that the same God designed both pyramid
and plan - and at the same time proves the correctness of the
chronology.
The agreement of the chronology with certain measurements of the
Tabernacle and the Temple of Ezekiel further stamps the chronology
as true.
It is on the basis of such and so many correspondencies - in
accordance with the soundest laws know to science - that we affirm
that, Scripturally, scientifically and historically, present-truth
chronology is correct beyond a doubt. Its reliability has been
abundantly confirmed by the dates and events of 1874, 1914, and
1918. Present-truth chronology is a secure basis on which the
consecrated child of God may endeavor to search things to come"
THE WATCH TOWER magazine, 05/15/1925, page 148:
"The great Pyramid of Egypt, standing as a silent and manimate
witness of the Lord, is a messenger; and its testimony speaks
with great eloquence concerning the devine plan (Isaiah 19:19)"
So we see that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of
Pennsylvania was preaching about Pyramids up to 1925. You should
also note that the Watchtower "stated" in no uncertain terms that
GOD desiged the Great Pyramid of Gizeh. I bet you that no Jehovah's
Witness has ever called on you to tell that they once preached such things.
Most if not all Jehovah's Witnesses do not know this. Most don't even
know that the founder of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of
Pennsylvania asked to be and was buried under a huge pyramid shaped
tombstone.
Please also download WAKEUP9.TXT from CRS BBS at (416)629-7020, for
detailed facts about the Watchtower's failed predictions for 1975.
Please share the info found in these issues of AWAKEN with other
members of the faith to which you belong. Consider using this
info within publications issued to members of your faith. One
example is to use this info within Church bulletins. People need
to become informed about the Watchtower and it's teachings. Why ?
Jehovah's Witnesses go door to door preaching whatever the
Watchtower has told them to preach. The are trained weekly to
respond to any and all objections to their preaching. They are
told by the Watchtower that the Watchtower is the only TRUTH
and that the Watchtower is the only TRUE religion. They are
told by the Watchtower that all other faiths, teach
false teachings because all other faiths are agents of SATAN.
They have no qualms attacking any and all aspects your belief
system, when they come on their un-asked for visits. They are
trained to SELL you on the Watchtower's teachings, just as they
themselves had been SOLD.
By becoming informed about the Jehovah's Witnesses, one will be
better prepared to decide whether one should get invloved with
this group.
Copyright (c) 1991 by Vince Banial, Toronto Ontario Canada.
This material may be freely copied as long as it remains intact & unchanged.
Please U/L this file to other BBSs that you call.
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